From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jan 17 17:42:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A166C37B405 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:42:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a038.otenet.gr [212.205.215.38]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id g0I1gHw18583; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 03:42:17 +0200 (EET) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0HLNSh41312; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:23:28 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:23:28 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: arch@freebsd.org, jasone@canonware.com Subject: Re: termcap versus terminfo Message-ID: <20020117212327.GA41262@hades.hell.gr> References: <001501c19f3b$94c35280$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <001501c19f3b$94c35280$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2002-01-17 01:44:39, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > The current FreeBSD scheme with the compiled termcap.db > has terrible documentation. In fact the only mention of the > need to use cap_mkdb to build termcap.db is in the cap_mkdb > man page, and it's not even a mention, it's just a link in > SEE ALSO. It's not mentioned in the man page for termcap. This is a bug in the documentation. It's not a termcap problem per se, but the termcap manpage needs to be changed to include a section about 'making local changes to the system termcap'. If nobody has a better suggestion, I'll try to come up with a small addition to termcap's manpage in a few days. > I don't see as how any admin is going to figure out how to add a terminal > description other than trial and error so what "user friendliness" gained by > holding to the human-readable /etc/termcap format is lost in the current > scheme and really shouldn't be an issue to use in deciding between > termcap and terminfo. > > With regards to Terry's comments about corporate entities wanting > to reduce support overhead, I think this is a bit pedantic. Sun > USED to keep infocmp separate in the Toolbox, but in Solaris 8, > infocmp is included and can be used to extract terminfo source, > and tic which is also included can be used to compile it back in. > How many other commercial UNIX vendors are still unbundling infocmp > I would ask - my guess is very few. I don't see that the infocmp-edit-tic > way of modifing the termcap entry is superior or inferior to the > edit-termcap-and-run-cap_mkdb, from an admin's point of view. > > The principle need admins have to tamper with terminfo or termcap entries is > to work around deviations from whatever standard emulation their > display devices are supposed to be following. In the old days when > terminal manufacturers would fix bugs and release new ROMS, the cost > to an enterprise of running around and replacing them in their terminals > pretty much guarenteed that once a terminal was installed, it would > never be touched. This meshed well with a central termcap authority > controlling termcap entries in all UNIX everywhere because things > didn't change much in the displays people were using, so it made > sense to leverage effort to figure out the changes in new ROMS. > > Today though, most people use terminal emulation on PC's or hardware > devices with upgradable hardware, so there's much wider deviation from > terminal emulation "standards" like the vt102, ANSI, Wyse60 and so on. > And the deviations occur not just from emulation program to emulation > program but from version to version. So, having a single unified set of > terminal entries that's kept maintained centrally isn't as important as it > once was, because everyone has to change everything for their own stuff. > What's more important is the default termcap supplied with the > system have a set of common emulations, that people can use as starting > points for their local mods. > > > Ted Mittelstaedt > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message -- Giorgos Keramidas . . . . . . . . . keramida@{ceid.upatras.gr,freebsd.org} FreeBSD Documentation Project . . . http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ FreeBSD: The power to serve . . . . http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message