From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 23 22:06:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEB2B1065673 for ; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 22:06:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE2E8FC0C for ; Fri, 23 Dec 2011 22:06:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.179]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3CA445C24 for ; Sat, 24 Dec 2011 08:18:58 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4EF4FAAA.1020603@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 08:03:22 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4EF4010B.5040704@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20111223142252.GC660@slackbox.erewhon.net> <4EF49DDB.2060609@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20111223173139.GA7648@slackbox.erewhon.net> In-Reply-To: <20111223173139.GA7648@slackbox.erewhon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: PolicyKit confusion X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 22:06:33 -0000 On 12/24/11 03:31, Roland Smith wrote: > On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 01:27:23AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: >> couldn't give a shit about network drives. One scenario is network goes >> down and I get a screenful of error messages- it annoys the shit out of >> me, let alone scaring illiterate users. > If the network goes down, network drives won't work. Your users will be > sad/scared/frustrated with or without error messages, I'm guessing. Nah. They'd flip out a whole lot more when the screen literally fills with error messages and keeps going. Frustrated they can handle and maybe complain, but that would make them run away... :) >>> I don't think enough people care to make it really work under FreeBSD. I've >>> certainly never missed it. >> They don't care too much under linux either.... So many years, yet not a >> single user doc anywhere on any of the f***ing monsters! Goddamn linux >> devs- ever heard of KISS?! How about a user doc for something so bloody >> confusing it takes a brain surgeon to figure it out? > That's exactly why I've avoided using this stuff. :-) Me too. I just made do with what was there. >> Ahh, one more thing of note here: polkit-gnome-authorization would not >> work under any circumstances (run as root or otherwise) to change >> policies! WTF! >>> You might take a look at devd(8) as a FreeBSD alternative, but I'm not sure if >>> it notices new da devices popping up. >> Oh, believe me I'd happily jump on it rather than deal with this mess. >> But I can't find anything that will interact happily with the apps, >> mount network shares of all kinds, and be exceedingly user friendly >> (take note lin-devs: user-friendly != sys_admin-hell at least it >> _doesn't have to_). > Another way to go about it is to install e.g. ubuntu on a virtual machine and > peek under the hood how it works there. But as you say it's probably tied into > udev pretty tightly. Tried that too, but each distro has there own "hack" to make it work for them. Crazy huh? >> How forgiving is devd to a user pulling the plug to early? I did look >> into it a bit, but it appeared nearly as difficult as deciphering the >> above scenario- that said, having come through the other side of that >> I'm not so sure my judgment was very accurate :) So now I might check >> that fork out and see... > Devd just gets some notifications and acts on them. There is a problem with > mounted usb devices, but that is one of architecture, I guess. Devd only gets > notified _after_ a device has been pulled. There is no way you can prevent > data loss in all cases like that. On windows you're supposed to "prepare to > eject" a USB device before pulling it out as well. The only "cure" is to mount > a device syncronously, and disable _all_ write caching for those devices. If > you try that you'll find that doing so has significant performance impact and > not in a good way (disks are sloooow). Almost need a "journaling" system for them. Any thoughts? What about setting up a temp folder (non-volatile buffer?) and a sync? Track devices using the uuid label? >> God! What a mess... this belongs in the X-files: the truth _is_ out >> there. But you might lose your head and many years of life just finding >> the fragments! > FreeBSD is on my personal desktop and laptop, but that seems to be the > exception rather than the rule. Maybe you should write your experiences up and > submit it to the freebsd-doc mailing list for inclusion in the official docs? I may yet do that, but in the interim I'm going to get around to writing up my findings on a lot of different aspects of the systems in a wiki (I'll put up my findings on those as well...). Maybe my pain can help someone else :) For reference _all_ my systems are FreeBSD: from laptops/desktops, HTPC's and servers. I'd like to be able to show a system better and more robust than the alternatives out there as well as easy on the users, and thats what I'm always working towards. > And talking about mailing lists, maybe you should try your luck on the > freebsd-gnome list? > [http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-gnome] I would but I'm not subscribed to that one (must be about the only one I'm not on :) ), and it hadn't come to mind as I wasn't using gnome! I'm using nautilus for testing as it has more features, but I'm intending on using pcmanfm or similar- lightweight, but usable.