From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 07:43:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA17273 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA17260 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:43:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (shift.utell.net [97.3.0.21]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00483; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:43:04 GMT Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21535; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:43:03 GMT Message-Id: <199703261543.PAA21535@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Warner Losh cc: Andrew Gierth , brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:23:27 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:43:03 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <877miussen.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> Andrew Gierth writes: > : >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Somers writes: > : Brian> I'll co-ordinate with > : Brian> Jordan (the maintainer of the emacs port) a patch to change > : Brian> the default help key binding to ^x^h (now that's gonna cause > : Brian> some "controversial" arguments!) - assuming he agrees. > > That's a *BAD* Idea. *DO*NOT*CHANGE*EMACS*DEFAULTS*. Emacs may be > broken, according to some of the more "religious" members of this > group, but that's how it works. Don't make me relearn how to use > emacs because some people have religious problems with DEL vs BS. > Emacs works the way that it works, and if you don't like it, change it > in *YOUR* .emacs file. But don't force it on me when I build from the > ports/editors/emacs. > > At best you should mail Jordan a .emacs file snippet that can be > included somewhere convenient so those people that want it can use > it. > > : Please don't do this until you have reviewed the prior debates on comp.emacs > : as to future directions of the help key binding. The issue is less > : straightforward than you are assuming. > > Yes. While you "can" change emacs's notion of ^H vs ^?, it won't work > in all contexts. Having tried to go that route several times myself, > I can only say that too many packages know too much about the default > bindings and won't really let you change them. > > My "final" solution for emacs was very simple. I put the following in > my .Xdefaults file. > > XTerm*vt100*translations: #override \n\ > BackSpace: string( 0x7f )\n > > and hacking my console keymap to do the right thing, imho, (that is > the key labeled <-- generates DEL and the Delete key generates BS). > > I also have stty erase ^? in my .files. > > Every other solution that I tried to come up with pissed me off > because they didn't work everywhere. > > Please note: I'm not suggesting changing the defaults for FreeBSD. It > too works the way it works :-). > > Warner > This is a bad argument. You're saying that nothing should be changed because it would disturb the hacks that you *had* to do to get things right. I'm saying that there shouldn't be any hacks. You shouldn't have to reverse BS and DEL. Emacs has decided to use ^h for help - for whatever reason. This key (assuming things are corrected) can't be typed (unless you stick a ^v or whatever the terminal lnext char is in front of it), so it's a bad choice. You shouldn't be typing ^h unless you want to delete a character - unless you re-write your keyboard key translations, your termcap entry and do your sttys. BS=0x08 and DEL=0x7f - that's the only standard cast in stone. The rest should be made work properly around this fact. Am I missing anything ? The idea is to stop the default from being "you've always got to hack this stuff on a unix box". Let's get it right. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour !