From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jan 13 13:58:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from algol.vtrip-ltd.com (algol.vtrip-ltd.com [139.91.200.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 611FF37B404 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:58:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from verigak (helo=localhost) by algol.vtrip-ltd.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16Psc6-0004Qm-00; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:56:26 +0200 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:56:26 +0200 (EET) From: Giorgos Verigakis To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Zvezdan Petkovic , Subject: Re: Portupgrade Utility In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 10:42 PM +0200 1/13/02, Giorgos Verigakis wrote: > >On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Zvezdan Petkovic wrote: > > > Allow me to disagree. CVS is absolutely necessary. CVSup is not. It's > >> merely a convenience. One can do source and port updates using cvs only. > > > >So you say that an OS should not provide conveniences to it's users? > >If you look at /usr/bin there are a lot of tools that are merely a > >convenience. How many times have you used apply, biff, col, grog or > >jot? (I just picked 5) > > The *base* OS has to draw a line somewhere, particularly a base OS which > is sometimes installed on systems which are low in resources. The fact > that the *base* OS includes some trivial and probably little-used > utilities is more of a historical legacy. It is not a green light to > include every single package which "provides convenience to" some > subset of the users of that OS. I didn't say that. I thought the discusion was about this line. > > That is what the ports collection is for -- adding those conveniences. > One man's convenience is another man's "waste of disk space" (or time, > or some other resource). Consider someone who administers a large > number of machines. Only *one* of those machines "needs" cvsup. All > the other machines could easily get their files via NFS-mounting the > relevant directories from the first machine. True. If the only thing I run is a web server (a pretty common case) I would delete most of the files in /usr, /etc, /var, etc. Good thing that disks are so cheap nowadays ;) > > Certainly CVSUP is very convenient, but there are other criteria to > consider when putting things into the *base* operating system. > > I do think that maybe things like cvsup or portupgrade should be > automatically installed if the user asks for "the source tree" or "the > ports collection" when they are installing the OS, but those programs > should still be handled as separate packages and not as part of > "the base OS". That's an idea but anyway I was speaking generally. On the other hand I don't think this is the correct list for such a discussion... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message