From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 27 17:36:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E23E116A4CE for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:36:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from s1.ofdeng.com (adsl-66-137-123-97.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.137.123.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7452443D58 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:36:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kevin_lyons@ofdeng.com) Received: from ofdeng.com ([192.168.254.17]) by s1.ofdeng.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9RHc09U084862; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:38:04 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kevin_lyons@ofdeng.com) Message-ID: <417FDC97.4040503@ofdeng.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:36:23 -0500 From: Kevin Lyons User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Oppermann References: <20041027170335.671626B017@smtp4.pacifier.net> In-Reply-To: <20041027170335.671626B017@smtp4.pacifier.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious investigations into UNIX and Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:36:40 -0000 Charles Oppermann wrote: > Well, let's look at the facts a little. The USS Yorktown was disabled for 2 > hours, not 3 days. This was because an operator entered a zero into a data > field, which the database software wasn't able to handle and wound up > crashing. > > If an application performs an operation that attempts to divide by zero on > UNIX or Windows, the process crashes if it doesn't set up an exception > handler. Yes, look at the facts. The ship had been towed in several times due to nt failures. I have never had my system reboot or crash because of a usermode divide by zero- I guess thats another 'feature' of nt. Microsoft has done an admirable job of covering/obscuring the problem. Following link is an article with more detail talking with guys on the ship who have to service it. I have snipped out a few details. http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/july13/cov2.htm ----------------------------- But according to DiGiorgio, who in an interview said he has serviced automated control systems on Navy ships for the past 26 years, the NT operating system is the source of the Yorktown’s computer problems. NT applications aboard the Yorktown provide damage control, run the ship’s control center on the bridge, monitor the engines and navigate the ship when under way. “Using Windows NT, which is known to have some failure modes, on a warship is similar to hoping that luck will be in our favor,” DiGiorgio said. Ron Redman, deputy technical director of the Fleet Introduction Division of the Aegis Program Executive Office, said there have been numerous software failures associated with NT aboard the Yorktown. “Refining that is an ongoing process,” Redman said. “Unix is a better system for control of equipment and machinery, whereas NT is a better system for the transfer of information and data. NT has never been fully refined and there are times when we have had shutdowns that resulted from NT.” The Yorktown has been towed into port several times because of the systems failures, he said. “Because of politics, some things are being forced on us that without political pressure we might not do, like Windows NT,” Redman said. “If it were up to me I probably would not have used Windows NT in this particular application. If we used Unix, we would have a system that has less of a tendency to go down.” Redman has a different perspective. “If it were me, I wouldn’t say all the things that Tony [DiGiorgio] has said out of discretion and consideration for being a long-term employee,” he said. “But I will say this about Tony, he’s a very bright engineer.” “Everybody plays the obedience role where you cannot criticize the system,” said DiGiorgio, a self-described whistle-blower. “I’m not that kind of guy.”