From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 23 04:56:52 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: current@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 823A416A41F; Fri, 23 Dec 2005 04:56:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.186]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA52943D49; Fri, 23 Dec 2005 04:56:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (c220-239-19-236.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.19.236]) by mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id jBN4unwV017955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 23 Dec 2005 15:56:49 +1100 Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (localhost.alcatel.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id jBN4umHh023651; Fri, 23 Dec 2005 15:56:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au) Received: (from pjeremy@localhost) by cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id jBN4um3q023650; Fri, 23 Dec 2005 15:56:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 15:56:48 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Jo Rhett Message-ID: <20051223045648.GH77268@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> References: <43A266E5.3080103@samsco.org> <20051217215434.GB92180@svcolo.com> <20051217220807.GA28741@freebie.xs4all.nl> <43A492B6.6050305@t-hosting.hu> <20051217232856.GT77268@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> <43A4B91D.8040304@samsco.org> <20051222211730.GK39174@svcolo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051222211730.GK39174@svcolo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc Cc: stable@freebsd.org, current Subject: Re: FreeBSD Update is the binary update solution [Re: HEADS UP: Release schedule for 2006] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 04:56:52 -0000 On Thu, 2005-Dec-22 13:17:30 -0800, Jo Rhett wrote: >But FreeBSD Update suffers from all of the same limitations that I've been >describing because of lack of integration with the Core OS. > >1. modified kernels are foobar > ..yet are practically mandatory on production systems > >2. modified sources are foobar > ..yet many common production situations require source compilation options So you want to be able to make arbitrary changes you your source code and compilation options and then expect the FreeBSD project to provide a tool that will apply binary fixes to the resultant executables? I don't know that modified kernels are mandatory. A lot of work has been going on to reduce the need to re-compile the kernel for common situations. Likewise, I don't know that "many common" and "require" go together - IMHO, 'desire' or 'would be nice' are more appropriate descriptions. Would you care to provide some details of what you believe can be done to reduce your need to re-compile the OS. I'm not sure that FreeBSD Update is totally unusable for you. If you have the situation where you have a modified FreeBSD that you need to roll out to a large number of hosts, you just need to have your own FreeBSD Update server - you test the changes in your environment and then roll them out as you require. AFAIK, Colin hasn't fully productised FreeBSD Update to date but has not rejected the idea of doing so. >3. FreeBSD Update can't handle updates of jails and other situations that >package systems deal with just fine. I don't run jails so I'm not familiar with the problems here. Maybe you'd like to explain the problems you run into. -- Peter Jeremy