From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 21 05:59:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 470DC1065672; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 05:59:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8E38FC16; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 05:59:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost.apl.washington.edu [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id pBL5xWlX000312; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:59:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id pBL5xWj8000311; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:59:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:59:32 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Garrett Cooper Message-ID: <20111221055932.GA250@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <201111291946.pATJkHMs064094@svn.freebsd.org> <20111220171740.X1005@besplex.bde.org> <8CCE4DDE-B203-42FF-A2FA-9106403DE077@FreeBSD.org> <201112200908.57306.jhb@freebsd.org> <4EF13F23.9060601@FreeBSD.org> <4EF14833.1090601@FreeBSD.org> <20111221045537.GA99900@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, Doug Barton , src-committers@freebsd.org, Ben Kaduk Subject: Re: svn commit: r228143 - in head: . share/mk tools/build/options X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 05:59:33 -0000 On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 09:30:10PM -0800, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Steve Kargl > wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 06:45:07PM -0800, Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 12/20/2011 18:29, Ben Kaduk wrote: > >> > 2011/12/20 Doug Barton : > >> >> On 12/20/2011 06:08, John Baldwin wrote: > >> >>> The defaults for src.conf should be for the common case > >> >> > >> >> Agreed. The problem we seem to be missing here is that developers are > >> >> not even statistically significant in measuring "the common case." > >> > > >> > "The common case" of what, though? ?"People using src.conf", or > >> > "people rebuilding world", or just "people using FreeBSD"? > >> > >> The latter of course. The overwhelming majority of FreeBSD users will > >> never use profiled libs, and in fact don't even know what they are. It's > >> just useless space being taken up on every install. The defaults should > >> be sensible for our users. > > > > OK, Doug, we get it! You don't like profiled libraries. > > You don't use them, and by extension the 'common user' > > does not use them. > > The point that I was trying to drive home (that I think Doug is as well) is: > - How many FreeBSD users are developers/performance/test engineers who > care about this stuff being compiled into the base system? Don't know. I haven't seen a statistically meaningful poll of the FreeBSD user base on which to draw an answer. I suspect that neither you nor Doug have seen such a poll. > - How many developers use gprof / profiled libraries? Unfortunately, too few as evident by some of the code committed to src/. Try timing buildworld WITH_CLANG and WITHOUT_CLANG. > - How many developers reroll their world by turning on WITH_PROFILE ? As of the moment, none. WITH_PROFILE is the default. > - How often do you use gprof to profile binaries? I use profiled libraries all time. Of course, I'm interested in making my numerical codes run as fast as possible, and a profiler does an amazing job of finding the bottlenecks. You can also ask bde and das about my forays into working on libm. > Smart defaults and better tuning are what we ultimately should be > striving for, because again, WITH_PROFILE is a developer and not a > end-user / administrator convenience. Those are the individuals we > should be tailoring FreeBSD for -- not developers. How many end-users/administrators do a buildworld and how often? Neither the time to build profiled libraries nor the diskspace used is significant. Yes, I know you're going to posit that on slow ARM and embedded systems profiled libraries are undesirable. I suspect that an ARM developer has more than just WITHOUT_PROFILE her src.conf. -- Steve