From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 18 16:41:12 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEA6116A4CE; Wed, 18 May 2005 16:41:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from tao.thought.org (dsl231-043-140.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net [216.231.43.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B15A43DC0; Wed, 18 May 2005 16:41:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tao.thought.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4IGhS2j069311; Wed, 18 May 2005 09:43:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id j4IGhRjr069310; Wed, 18 May 2005 09:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 09:43:26 -0700 From: Gary Kline To: Andrey Smirnov Message-ID: <20050518164326.GA69208@thought.org> References: <20050516203932.0A38316A4D0@hub.freebsd.org> <42890874.4030600@t-hosting.hu> <4289E0E9.3060506@pacific.net.sg> <20050517173737.GA60953@thought.org> <428B59A0.7030108@netstream.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <428B59A0.7030108@netstream.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Organization: Thought Unlimited. Public service Unix since 1986. X-Of_Interest: Observing 18++ years of service to the Unix community X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 19 May 2005 11:44:30 +0000 cc: current@freebsd.org cc: Gary Kline cc: stable@freebsd.org cc: Erich Dollansky cc: Bill Paul Subject: Re: Alright you primitive screwheads, LISTEN UP!! X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 16:41:13 -0000 On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 07:05:04PM +0400, Andrey Smirnov wrote: > Gary Kline wrote: > > > > Well, (Gary said, ddeliberately changing the ^Subject:), > > interesting. My mother's parents are from Hungary, two of my > > dad's grandparents from Germany. > > > > Didn't know about Hungary (or Japan). China, yes. Anybody > > on this geek list know any other societies where the surname > > is traditionally presented first and the given name last? > > > > In Russia, in all official documents name is written: > Family_Name First_Name Middle_Name > > So, my full name would be: > Smirnov Andrey Andreevich > > In short form, we usually put first name in head of family name (surname): > Andrey Smirnov > This feels less official. > > So, it's sometimes hard to find out what is what if you don't know > Russian names well. Well, names everywhere that I know of are listed in reverse alphabetical order in (1) documents, (2) telephone directories, (3) attendence records. That only makes sense (IMHO). So far, in conversational reference, say, one might introduce a person from East or Southeast Asia by [ Family_Name, First_Name ]. But almost everywhere else, I think it is the reverse. For example, if we were at a BSD meeting you would introduce me as "Gary Kline" rather than "Kline Gary"; but if you were introducing someone from China, Korea, or Vietnam, you would introduce him Family_Name first. --If I still have this convention wrong, I'd be much obliged if one of my fellow geeks would correct me! Andrey, while I'm talking to a real Russian, I've got a question that you can answer. [[Sorry that this is going far OT, gang, but I've been wondering about this since I read Dostoevsky.]] *Why* are some people addressed by their first name _and_ by what may/must? be their middle names?? I remember some woman who seemed upset at Boris Yeltsin (when he was still President) call him "Boris [A_Very_Long_String_of_Characters]" Is this to indicate irony, or affection, or anger... or what? ...And now we return to our regularly schduled programming :-) gary -- Gary Kline kline@thought.org www.thought.org Public service Unix