From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 30 14:46:26 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C151F1; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:46:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mdf356@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-x230.google.com (mail-ob0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D80AC2A73; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:46:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f176.google.com with SMTP id uz19so1946326obc.7 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 07:46:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=v5ywJ4sQcWV4PVkH9vjeVOYcjgBPZHFQ4FlpuvDXbx0=; b=yQeEuoYqBSBpmEfaIIQ3yEmxjlWQPsvYj9DOSaQnR9hmqpRlrtgLIBWoEQSDc24cBQ wNxasBI6Ek6vtmd6Or6g/5OQX/VlM4VUuioFZ4qx1sYwvDCWAsW9AXQxY20ASzbFTJaY uQYGVpbD7FrCB8IAzl9Ev5Nf99/4xlUePoxGktdkYMKT3thZwCkMLFjUHYkXD/GGJiIa v+iQQgkDThZjYoKPFdr3aOeJMAax5eA5cmKla/h96ZW8yQKEuZGT549fVuclmEaxPd+2 COYcP/BHCeqPbdefJFI/pBZxhzGFRFAEpvI4LI3ymd23hx7iu4kTFjEH1QmwdBmIt0sB 6knw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.62.4 with SMTP id u4mr7137857oer.35.1377873985129; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 07:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mdf356@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.75.9 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 07:46:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1377870438.1111.311.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> References: <20130822200902.GG94127@funkthat.com> <201308291057.43027.jhb@freebsd.org> <8F836479-BC3A-4679-A7AA-3BCDD34AE6C5@FreeBSD.org> <201308291344.25562.jhb@freebsd.org> <1377870438.1111.311.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 07:46:24 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: VQnbYfaYNnDZUZk8khUeo6uiIQI Message-ID: Subject: Re: GCC withdraw From: Matthew Fleming To: Ian Lepore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: FreeBSD Current , David Chisnall , toolchain@freebsd.org, "freebsd-current@freebsd.org CURRENT" , "Sam Fourman Jr." , Boris Samorodov , Warner Losh X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:46:26 -0000 On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 07:39 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > I had a long, rambling reply to this that corrected many of the factual > errors made in it. But why bother. You have your world view, it doesn't > match what people are doing today and this mismatch is going to cause > people pain and suffering in the embedded world far beyond what you think. > And you've shown an extreme reluctance to accept that your world view isn't > quite right, and listen to people. This makes me sad, but I recognize a > lost cause when I see it. > > > > Do whatever the fuck you want, but it won't make your arguments right. > And it won't keep me from saying I told you so when your optimistic > timelines don't come to fruition, or the people processors you dismiss as > being too weak to run a full FreeBSD (despite the fact they are doing it > today) complain about the needless pain they are going through. > > > > Warner > > Actually, I have to put a +1 on this. I also had a long reply full of > reality-based refutations of various "facts" from this thread, and I > also just deleted it because clearly the discussion has become > pointless. I don't really have any skin in this game; the vendor I work for uses x86 hardware, and we're not ready to be running on FreeBSD 10 yet. But as an "old guy" I really don't see why we'd change the plan of record so late. Nor do I think prioritizing ports over the base system on alternate architectures is the right play -- there's a lot of vendors who use FreeBSD on !x86. And there's a lot of vendors who don't use very many ports. And there's a lot of vendors putting money into the FreeBSD foundation, and into the hands of FreeBSD committers, to make it better. Vendors who, while it would be painful to switch, do have a choice of which OS to build their product around. Just my 2c. Actual value may differ. Cheers, matthew