From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 23 17:07:51 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B1016A4CE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:07:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from S1.cableone.net (smtp1.cableone.net [24.116.0.227]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227DC43D31; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:07:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from v.velox@vvelox.net) Received: from vixen42.24-119-122-191.cpe.cableone.net (unverified [24.119.123.89]) by S1.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S1) with ESMTP id 5246072 for multiple; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:08:26 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:06:48 -0600 From: Vulpes Velox To: Carsten Zimmermann Message-ID: <20041223110648.73d0cfbc@vixen42.24-119-122-191.cpe.cableone.net> In-Reply-To: <20041223151226.GA721@galadriel.bbk.hh.aegisnet.de> References: <39703F0F.4E843084.3F8EDD3A@cs.com> <34514.212.202.153.78.1103806722.squirrel@www.aegisnet.biz> <41CAC836.1080402@sitetronics.com> <20041223151226.GA721@galadriel.bbk.hh.aegisnet.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 0.9.13 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 15, in=22, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.119.123.89 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:07:51 -0000 On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:12:26 +0100 Carsten Zimmermann wrote: > Dear Devon - > > I understand that this thread might be heavily annoying to those who > are reading doc@ and advocacy@ for decades now. I admit I am too > lazy to search the mail archives of these last X decades before I > reply to a living thread (I use to do so when I _start_ a thread > which might have been discussed in the past). I have no bad > consciousness with that, I'm sorry. >From what I remember, there was a some what definite conclusion, but nothing was ever done. The conclusion was basically this, making a real attractive site to business people would be nice, but not doing it to freebsd.org, but instead creating a freebsd.com or the like for it. > I don't share your point of view that past discussions should not be > re-heated just because there was no evident conclusion the last > time. Who knows if there aren't any parameters changed which could > lead to something this time? In contrast to that, your harsh > comments are probably suffocating exactly this. To my mind, the > posting of the URL in the archives, which was very helpful, indeed, > at an earlier point in this thread would have done a lot more! > > Me, I am no FreeBSD sourcecode jockey by now nor am I a webdesigner. > I'm a FreeBSD adocate and maybe some sort of potential doc-writer. > But that doesn't matter either - I USE FreeBSD and this makes me, > FreeBSD being a community driven project, a stake-holder who wants > to take part on this discussion. And there's many to which the above > applies! > > I am willing to help, be it through actually commiting patches, > templates, (...) or just through _opinion_. Conscensus was that > there is hardly anyone who wants to have a lot of work (and spent > free-time) sacrificed just because nobody seems to want what has > been produced in the end. > > These people should be backed and encouraged through community's > _opinion_. That's why it is just right to continue this thread even > though it has been discussed *a lot* in the past. Maybe it concludes > to something _this_ time. > > I agree, however, that those contributing to this thread should take > advantage of the past discussion: we don't need to reinvent the > wheel every halt a year... But this can only be achieved if the > people who know it's been discussed before - people like you - give > polite hints on where to find the information. > > regards, > Carsten > > Am Thu Dec 23, 2004 at 02:2926PM +0100 schrieb Devon H. O'Dell: > > Carsten Zimmermann wrote: > > >Hello - > > [snip] > > >The website: The website is fine. It serves its purpose as stated > > >before. But imagine being a network technician convincing your > > >employer to move applications to The Great OS. I think the > > >current FreeBSD website pretty much suggests as FreeBSD being a > > >`geek? project. It can't be our aim that FreeBSD is considered > > >unserious, FreeBSD definately needs trusting companies to raise > > >its market penetration. And company's stake holders are(most > > >often) easily tempted by visual impressions. Thus, the website > > >itself is the primary marketing material in my eyes and I think > > >there is great need of redesigning it in the midterm view. > > > > > >That much from me, > > >Carsten > > > > > [snip] > > > > I really hate to have to say this in such a crude way, but this > > discussion has always and will always boil down to this: put up, > > or shut up. > > > > There are a LOT of goals that have been set for this project, and > > nobody has ever stepped up to help do them. Don't know what to do? > > The thread's really in the archive, go check it out! > > > > Other ideas to discuss? Put a bit of energy behind it and do the > > things instead of discussing them. > > > > Again, sorry for the coarseness, but people never seem to > > understand this when this subject is brought up. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Devon H. O'Dell > > -- > Carsten Zimmermann > mailto:cz@aegisnet.biz > > Aegis:Net IT-Dienstleistungen > Postfach 620371 > 22403 Hamburg > http://www.aegisnet.biz > Info: +49-(0)700-AEGISNET >