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Date:      Sun, 14 Apr 2024 18:21:27 -0600
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org>
Cc:        Andrew Reilly <areilly@bigpond.net.au>,  FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: What's happening to Sender: headers?
Message-ID:  <CANCZdfpkp1uvz%2BoD%2BgP26Fh2QVkSsLw9fEYjOWbGNs5fuGpVsQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <7338D9DD-E075-4382-9769-8188FDC639EB@iitbombay.org>
References:  <C608E59C-C231-493D-A744-E448BBB92C75@bigpond.net.au> <7338D9DD-E075-4382-9769-8188FDC639EB@iitbombay.org>

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On Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 6:11=E2=80=AFPM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrot=
e:

>
>
> > On Apr 14, 2024, at 3:33=E2=80=AFPM, Andrew Reilly <areilly@bigpond.net=
.au>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Over the weekend I got around to investigating, and discovered that the
> errant messages don=E2=80=99t _have_ a Sender: header.  There=E2=80=99s a=
 Return-Path:
> header that captures the envelope-from, but I haven=E2=80=99t figured out=
 how to
> make sieve check that yet: it doesn=E2=80=99t seem to like it.  Sieve doc=
umentation
> is spectacularly inconclusive, but I suspect that the envelope extension
> might do what I want, but that=E2=80=99s not really my question.
> >
> > Does anyone know why the Sender: header, which used to be so reliable
> that I had thought it an intrinsic part of the SMTP/MTA ecosystem, has go=
ne
> away, or is at least not ubiquitous?
>
> The Sender: field is optional. I don't know why FreeBSD stopped using it
> but I filter on List-Id: (which is used by pretty much every mailing list=
),
> which seems more appropriate.
>

Bapt is going to restore it Monday. It's useful for vacation(1) still
apparently.

Warner

>

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<div dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 6:11=E2=80=AFPM Bakul Shah &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:bakul@iitbombay.org">bakul@iitbombay.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
&gt; On Apr 14, 2024, at 3:33=E2=80=AFPM, Andrew Reilly &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:areilly@bigpond.net.au" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">areilly@big=
pond.net.au</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Over the weekend I got around to investigating, and discovered that th=
e errant messages don=E2=80=99t _have_ a Sender: header.=C2=A0 There=E2=80=
=99s a Return-Path: header that captures the envelope-from, but I haven=E2=
=80=99t figured out how to make sieve check that yet: it doesn=E2=80=99t se=
em to like it.=C2=A0 Sieve documentation is spectacularly inconclusive, but=
 I suspect that the envelope extension might do what I want, but that=E2=80=
=99s not really my question.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Does anyone know why the Sender: header, which used to be so reliable =
that I had thought it an intrinsic part of the SMTP/MTA ecosystem, has gone=
 away, or is at least not ubiquitous?<br>
<br>
The Sender: field is optional. I don&#39;t know why FreeBSD stopped using i=
t but I filter on List-Id: (which is used by pretty much every mailing list=
), which seems more appropriate.<br></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"au=
to"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Bapt is going to restore it Monday. It&#39;=
s useful for vacation(1) still apparently.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"auto">Warner=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
</blockquote></div></div></div>

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