From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 00:34:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA11835 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 00:34:58 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11829 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 00:34:54 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA06512; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 15:33:41 +0800 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 15:33:41 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Christopher Sedore cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Making a FreeBSD NFS server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 23 Aug 1995, Christopher Sedore wrote: > > The Network Computing article test were done over FDDI. I got ~3MB/sec > write and ~2MB/sec read while doing the tests. > > Note that the ~2MB/sec read was from a disk which only yielded ~2MB/sec > when using IOZone locally, so a 7200 rpm drive may make the number go up. I mounted a local disk via NFS through the loopback interface (after being reminded that the hostname list to mount(8) isn't comma- delimited ;-)) and got 1.4 MB/s reading and 1.8 MB/s writing (with async NFS writes). Running iozone directly on that disk gets me about 3.9 MB/s read and write. My test machine is a 486DX4/100, so it sounds like a Pentium was used in your benchmark. > As I understand some of the NFS protocol issues, you probably won't see > more than ~2MB/sec read from a single process anyway, so you'd have to use > multiple IOZones or whatever other benchmark you use to break that barrier. I'd like to see how FreeBSD holds up in an environment where there are 100+ users all trying to read/write to home directories that are located on a central fileserver. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 00:36:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA11887 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 00:36:27 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11874 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 00:36:12 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA06523; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 15:35:19 +0800 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 15:35:19 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: "Don's FList drop" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netsite communications server works Great In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 24 Aug 1995, Don's FList drop wrote: > > > Netscape has a nice HTML based administration section, although it'll > > probably only be used to set it up. > > I assume you've never seen the whole thing. There's a lot of useful stuff > in there. You can up, restart and shut down the server, alter the max and > min number of processes you run at once, read and rotate the logs, get > current and overall load reports. EINet Galaxy's Web server has this kind of thing too, where they've written a suite of CGI utils for performing server administration via a forms interface. Really, it is not technically challenging to do such a thing for any server. Someone just has to sit down and write the darn thing. ;-) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 00:37:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA11960 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 00:37:47 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11954 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 00:37:44 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA06531; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 15:37:18 +0800 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 15:37:17 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Piero Serini cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: precompiled Mosaic In-Reply-To: <199508261342.PAA17950@strider.ibenet.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, 26 Aug 1995, Piero Serini wrote: > > Agreed. But still, for people archie'ing for Mosaic 2.7b1 there's > plenty of Linux out there and no FreeBSD. The NCSA folks have Linux machines, but no BSD/OS or FreeBSD ones, but they will gladly accept binaries donations. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 02:49:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA16136 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 02:49:03 -0700 Received: from eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA16129 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 02:48:58 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA22259; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:48:48 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA29522; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 06:28:33 +0200 Message-Id: <199508260428.GAA29522@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: jdl@chromatic.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ISDN Anyone? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Aug 1995 21:24:00 PDT." <199508250424.VAA12898@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 06:28:31 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Good luck in trying to pry the WaveRunner's API from IBM . Waverunner is a competitor to the Lion Datapump, designed by a friend, all docs for that are under my home page (click on `companies' then click on `lion') If you need more info than what's there, I can constructively lean on the friend. Don't expect intelligence from me personally though, I'm not into ISDN. PS for those that dont have web access but do have ftp, the docs are in freebsd.org/~jhs called something like isdn.tar.gz or maybe datapump.tar.gz as to current pricing, im out of date, but contact info is in there. Julian --- Julian H. Stacey Email: jhs@freebsd.org Web: www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 08:34:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA25300 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 08:34:33 -0700 Received: from virgo.ai.net (virgo.ai.net [198.69.44.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA25290 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 08:34:30 -0700 Received: from aries.ai.net (aries.ai.net [198.69.44.1]) by virgo.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA11195 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:50:21 -0400 Received: (from nc@localhost) by aries.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id LAA20180; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:34:21 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:34:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Networking [not completely FreeBSD related] Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This question isn't completely FreeBSD related, but I have been told its impossible, so I figure I could use FreeBSD to solve it. :-) A standard T-1 connection, long before the internet was popularized, was just a datapipe between two points. No packets, no IP addresses, no nothing. Particularly in the voice-multiplexing area. Nowadays, T-1 connections are used very differently. Can anyone think of a way, or know of an existing solution, that can somehow emulate an old T-1 style datapipe on an IP network. Most likely this would be ether. I would really prefer a solution that didn't involve any heavy digitization for a video or a voice stream, just something like connecting a TSU to a V.35 jack connected to a FreeBSD machine, run something on it, route it across the network, and have a similar machine reconstitute the original input. Its bizarre, I know. If you have any ideas, I would REALLY appreciate anything. Thanks, -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 08:43:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA25692 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 08:43:52 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA25681 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 08:43:46 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA22932; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:47:35 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:47:35 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199508271547.LAA22932@healer.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org, nc@ai.net Subject: Re: Networking [not completely FreeBSD related] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > A standard T-1 connection, long before the internet was popularized, was > just a datapipe between two points. No packets, no IP addresses, no Kinda like a serial line before SLIP. > connecting a TSU to a V.35 jack connected to a FreeBSD machine, run > something on it, route it across the network, and have a similar machine ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > reconstitute the original input. This is where your problem lies. For routing, you need an addressing scheme. If it was a end-to-end connection, with no intervening cross connections (ie. a wire instead of one piece of a network) then you're fine. Remember that when the phone company did a T1, they either did a single end-to-end connection, or had a "phone number" type tag on it so that the switching office knew where the connection was going to and coming from. Essentially, again, addressing. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 09:41:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA26763 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 09:41:06 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA26757 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 09:41:04 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA19301; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 12:41:18 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 12:41:18 -0400 Message-Id: <199508271641.MAA19301@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Network Coordinator From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Networking [not completely FreeBSD related] Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >This question isn't completely FreeBSD related, but I have been told its >impossible, so I figure I could use FreeBSD to solve it. :-) > >A standard T-1 connection, long before the internet was popularized, was >just a datapipe between two points. No packets, no IP addresses, no >nothing. Particularly in the voice-multiplexing area. > >Nowadays, T-1 connections are used very differently. > T1's are the same as they have always been. Most people are only familiar with the environment in which they currently play in.... >Can anyone think of a way, or know of an existing solution, that can >somehow emulate an old T-1 style datapipe on an IP network. Most likely >this would be ether. I would really prefer a solution that didn't involve >any heavy digitization for a video or a voice stream, just something like >connecting a TSU to a V.35 jack connected to a FreeBSD machine, run >something on it, route it across the network, and have a similar machine >reconstitute the original input. > >Its bizarre, I know. If you have any ideas, I would REALLY appreciate >anything. > Its not bizarre. You can do that with our T1 product. If you don't "ifconfig" it its just an independent interface that can be called with our API either from within the kernel or from user space. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 09:46:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA26985 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 09:46:36 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA26979 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 09:46:34 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA19337; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 12:46:27 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 12:46:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199508271646.MAA19337@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Coranth Gryphon From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Networking [not completely FreeBSD related] Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> A standard T-1 connection, long before the internet was popularized, was >> just a datapipe between two points. No packets, no IP addresses, no > >Kinda like a serial line before SLIP. > >> connecting a TSU to a V.35 jack connected to a FreeBSD machine, run >> something on it, route it across the network, and have a similar machine > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> reconstitute the original input. > >This is where your problem lies. For routing, you need an addressing >scheme. If it was a end-to-end connection, with no intervening cross >connections (ie. a wire instead of one piece of a network) then >you're fine. > >Remember that when the phone company did a T1, they either did a single >end-to-end connection, or had a "phone number" type tag on it so that the >switching office knew where the connection was going to and coming from. >Essentially, again, addressing. > The phone company's T1 mechanisms are the same as before, because they don't know or care what you use the line for. The "phone number" is because their customer databases are keyed on your primary phone number so that they can keep all of a location's info together. The telco does no "routing" on your data...everything is done with repeaters and muxes....all physical. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 10:03:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA27288 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 10:03:00 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA27282 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 10:02:58 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA19486; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 13:03:06 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 13:03:06 -0400 Message-Id: <199508271703.NAA19486@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Capo From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: alias ( secondary IP ) for Ethernet Ifaces in FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk John Capo writes.. >> >> For example , I have ep0 iface and I want to assign the >> >> secondary( alias) IP address to it . >> >> What command should be issued ? >> >> >> >> ifconfig ep0 alias 199.199.199.22 >> > >> >> I've read several messages in this thread and can't get it to work. >> SOMETHING shows up with netstat -in but I can't ping it. I've tried >> >> >> ifconfig ed0 204.141.95.2 alias (This takes but doesn't work) >> >> and >> >> ifconfig ed0 alias 204.141.95.2 (I get "File Exists" here) >> > >Try ifconfig ed0 alias 204.141.95.2 netmask 0xffffffff > This still doesn't work. When I do it, I can ping the primary address but not the secondary. If I try to ping the secondary address the machine sends an ARP. What should the route look like (in netstat/ifconfig) if it works? db From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 10:03:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA27307 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 10:03:34 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA27301 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 10:03:32 -0700 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA08041; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 10:03:29 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 10:03:29 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199508271703.KAA08041@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Anyone out there have any Amiga MovieSetter animations? Cc: multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'd be happiest with any of the Eric Schwartz anims, but I'm not picky. I'm looking at a little multimedia presentation package and I need a wider variety of media than what I've got.. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 10:33:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA27873 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 10:33:36 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA27867 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 10:33:34 -0700 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA03235; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 13:32:59 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199508271732.NAA03235@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: Anyone out there have any Amiga MovieSetter animations? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 13:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com In-Reply-To: <199508271703.KAA08041@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 27, 95 10:03:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 468 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd be happiest with any of the Eric Schwartz anims, but I'm > not picky. I'm looking at a little multimedia presentation package > and I need a wider variety of media than what I've got.. I have these: 530 Bait_Masking 348 cmuflage 724 Unsporting 972 anti-lemmin Where of course anti-lemmin is the best :) -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 11:23:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA29189 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:23:40 -0700 Received: from linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw (linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw [140.113.235.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA29180 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:23:32 -0700 Received: (from jdli@localhost) by linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA32229 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:20:25 +0800 From: Chien-Ta Lee Message-Id: <199508271820.CAA32229@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw> Subject: [patch] AMD Lance PCnet-PCI NE2100/Am79C970 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:20:25 +0800 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4873 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi : Someone send this patch to hackers-mailing-list before, and now someone requests this patch from me, so I sent this patch again. I hope this patch can be merged into current source, since it works for me. (I am not the author, thanks to vak) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: vak@cronyx.ru ("Serge V.Vakulenko") Subject: [patch] if_lnc.c: support for PCI Lance Ethernet adapters added Date: 20 Jul 1995 23:44:35 +0800 This patch adds the support for PCI Ethernet cards, based on AMD 79C970 chip. Apply this patch, and add the following lines to the kernel config file: controller pci0 device lnc0 Enjoy! Some notes: 1. The Am79C970 chip has the same manufacturer id as the Am79C965 one. Probing for it was wrong in the original driver. 2. Loss of carrier message could happen too often on overloaded networks, it surely does not worth printing. 3. There was a question of unit number conflict with configured ISA/EISA/VLB cards, the PCI probe routine now skips all busy unit numbers. Serge Vakulenko, Cronyx Ltd. --- if_lnc205.h Mon Oct 3 00:14:36 1994 +++ if_lnc.h Thu Jul 20 18:45:55 1995 @@ -67,8 +67,7 @@ #define PART_MASK 0xffff #define Am79C960 0x0003 #define Am79C961 0x2260 -#define Am79C965 0x2430 -#define Am79C970 0x0242 +#define Am79C965 0x2430 /* the same as for Am79C970 */ /* Board types */ #define UNKNOWN 0 --- if_lnc205.c Tue May 30 12:02:24 1995 +++ if_lnc.c Thu Jul 20 18:44:16 1995 @@ -698,7 +698,7 @@ } if (next->md->md3 & LCAR) { LNCSTATS(lcar) - log(LOG_ERR, "lnc%d: Loss of carrier during transmit -- Net error?\n", unit); + /* log(LOG_ERR, "lnc%d: Loss of carrier during transmit -- Net error?\n", unit); */ } if (next->md->md3 & RTRY) { LNCSTATS(rtry) @@ -1017,8 +1017,6 @@ return (PCnet_ISAplus); case Am79C965: return (PCnet_32); - case Am79C970: - return (PCnet_PCI); default: break; } @@ -1032,6 +1030,11 @@ { struct lnc_softc *sc = &lnc_softc[isa_dev->id_unit]; int lnc_mem_size; + static char *board_name [] = { /* Board types */ + "UNKNOWN", "BICC", "NE2100", "DEPCA" }; + static char *chip_name [] = { /* Chip types */ + "UNKNOWN", "Am7990", "Am79C90", "Am79C960", + "Am79C961", "Am79C965", "Am79C970" }; /* * Allocate memory for use by the controller. @@ -1106,6 +1109,15 @@ isa_dev->id_unit, sc->kdc.kdc_description, ether_sprintf(sc->arpcom.ac_enaddr)); + printf("lnc%d: type %s", isa_dev->id_unit, board_name[sc->nic.ident]); + if (sc->nic.ic) + printf("/%s", chip_name[sc->nic.ic]); + switch (sc->nic.mem_mode) { + case DMA_FIXED: printf (", static DMA buffer mode"); break; + case DMA_MBUF: printf (", chained DMA buffers mode"); break; + case SHMEM: printf (", shared memory mode"); break; + } + printf("\n"); #if NBPFILTER > 0 bpfattach(&sc->bpf, &sc->arpcom.ac_if, DLT_EN10MB, sizeof(struct ether_header)); @@ -1673,6 +1685,73 @@ ++lnc_softc[unit].arpcom.ac_if.if_oerrors; lnc_reset(unit); } + +/* + * PCI bus probe and attach routines for LANCE Ethernet controllers, + * by Serge V.Vakulenko, vak@cronyx.ru + */ +#include +#if NPCI > 0 +#include +#include +#include + +static char *lnc_pci_probe (pcici_t tag, pcidi_t type); +static void lnc_pci_attach (pcici_t config_id, int unit); + +static u_long lnc_pci_count; + +struct pci_device lnc_pci_device = { "lnc", + lnc_pci_probe, lnc_pci_attach, &lnc_pci_count, 0 }; + +DATA_SET (pcidevice_set, lnc_pci_device); + +static char *lnc_pci_probe (pcici_t tag, pcidi_t type) +{ + char *name = 0; + struct isa_device *d; + + if (type == 0x20001022) + name = "AMD Lance Ethernet"; + if (! name) + return (0); + + /* Look at configuration table and skip all ISA/EISA + * Lance unit numbers to avoid conflict. */ +again: + for (d=isa_devtab_net; d->id_driver; ++d) + if (d->id_driver == &lncdriver && d->id_unit == lnc_pci_count) { + ++lnc_pci_count; + goto again; + } + if (lnc_pci_count >= NLNC) + return (0); + return (name); +} + +void lnc_pci_attach (pcici_t config_id, int unit) +{ + struct isa_device dv; + + dv.id_unit = unit; + dv.id_iobase = pci_conf_read (config_id, PCI_MAP_REG_START); + if (! dv.id_iobase) + return; + dv.id_iobase &= ~1; + + if (! lnc_probe (&dv)) + return; + + if (! pci_map_int (config_id, (int(*)())lncintr, (void*)unit, &net_imask)) + return; + + if (lnc_softc[unit].nic.ic == PCnet_32) { + lnc_softc[unit].nic.ic = PCnet_PCI; + lnc_softc[unit].kdc.kdc_description = "PCnet-PCI Ethernet controller"; + } + lnc_attach (&dv); +} +#endif /* NPCI > 0 */ #ifdef DEBUG void -- 李 建 達 (Adonis) 交大資工 Mail: jdli@csie.nctu.edu.tw From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 11:38:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA00130 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:38:23 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA00111 ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:38:18 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id OAA29650; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 14:30:11 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 14:30:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Q: ppp.slattach bugs/ppp server/load balancing To: Nik Malenovic cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Nik Malenovic wrote: > Hi folks - I just joined in on freebsd-* mailing list, so I apologize > if this has been discussed - I don't have access to mailing lists archives. folks, all of you have access to the mailing list archives. and the digest archives. (who started this no access rumor??). you can get an index of files available for a particular list and then fetch any number of those files. for example, you may be looking for an email from freebsd-current, try: mail majordomo@freebsd.org index freebsd-current end then to fetch a file try: mail majordomo@freebsd.org get freebsd-current v01.n001 end majordomo has a help command that explains its features. have fun. jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 12:04:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA00881 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 12:04:39 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA00873 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 12:04:37 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA00959; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 12:04:28 -0700 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Q: ppp.slattach bugs/ppp server/load balancing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 27 Aug 1995 14:30:10 EDT." Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 12:04:27 -0700 Message-ID: <957.809550267@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > folks, all of you have access to the mailing list archives. and the > digest archives. (who started this no access rumor??). you can get an I think it's less of a rumor and more of a simple lack of knowledge. Would you care to post a regular mailing FAQ to c.u.b.f.a? We've been missing this for awhile, and this would be an excellent chance to let people know about the new digest features! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 12:35:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA01721 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 12:35:45 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA01714 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 12:35:39 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0smnR3-000I4WC; Sun, 27 Aug 95 21:32 MET DST Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0smnAS-00000vC; Sun, 27 Aug 95 21:14 MET DST Message-Id: From: hm@ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: SCSI CDROM autochanger access causes fatal trap 12 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 21:14:51 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1676 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Since some weeks i own a 7 disk CDROM autochanger, and i eventually got it to be recognized and run on a plain 2.0.5 by using NEW_SCSICONF in the kernel config file. The individual CD's are accessed by talking to the 7 SCSI LUN's. After mounting and/or dismounting several CD's from different LUN's (i tried to check if there is a limit on the number of CD's touched, but there isn't: somtimes it happenes when i mount CD 1..4, sometimes it happenes when i mount CD 1..6) the system panics when the next write (!) is done to a (normal r/w) SCSI disk drive: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode Fault virtual address = 0x60 Fault code = supervisor read, page not present Instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01250ac Code segment = base 0x0 limit 0xfffff type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def 321, gran 1 Processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 Current process = 470 (iozone) Interrupt mask = bio Kernel: type 12 trap, code = 0 Stopped at _incore+0x48: cmpl %esi, 0x48(%ebx) This is fully reproducible, i just used iozone to trigger the write, any other program writing to disk does also. I had a serious look at incore() in vfs_bio.c, but i'm not that filesystem hacker to really and fully understand what happenes but i'd like to see this bug fixed. What can i do ? Is someone willing to help a bit to find the cause ? hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 13:12:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA02332 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 13:12:16 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA02322 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 13:12:13 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA20654; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 16:12:24 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 16:12:24 -0400 Message-Id: <199508272012.QAA20654@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Capo From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: alias ( secondary IP ) for Ethernet Ifaces in FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, gated-alpha@cornell.edu Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >dennis writes: >> >> John Capo writes.. >> >> >> >> For example , I have ep0 iface and I want to assign the >> >> >> secondary( alias) IP address to it . >> >> >> What command should be issued ? >> >> >> >> >> >> ifconfig ep0 alias 199.199.199.22 >> >> > >> >> >> >> I've read several messages in this thread and can't get it to work. >> >> SOMETHING shows up with netstat -in but I can't ping it. I've tried >> >> >> >> >> >> ifconfig ed0 204.141.95.2 alias (This takes but doesn't work) >> >> >> >> and >> >> >> >> ifconfig ed0 alias 204.141.95.2 (I get "File Exists" here) >> >> >> > >> >Try ifconfig ed0 alias 204.141.95.2 netmask 0xffffffff >> > >> >> This still doesn't work. When I do it, I can ping the primary address but >> not the secondary. If I try to ping the secondary address the machine sends >> an ARP. >> >> What should the route look like (in netstat/ifconfig) if it works? >> > >Strange... I aliased one of my systems to 204.141.95.2 and everything >looks OK. > [info listings deleted] AHA! It seems that it works ok when I run routed, but not with gated..I'm running gated with rip only on this machine. If I do the alias when running gated I get the wrong entry in my routing table (a link# entry as the gateway). This implies that gated is adding the entry when it does its "interface scan" and not getting the information that it expects, or that it doesn't support aliasing. Is anyone using alias addressing in Freebsd and gated successfully? Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 16:34:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA10842 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 16:34:14 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA10832 ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 16:34:13 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 16:34:13 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508272334.QAA10832@freefall.FreeBSD.org> To: davidg, hackers, terry Subject: Terry's changes.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been going over terry's changes ( in ~terry of freefall.) they seem good and I particularly want to see the system initialisation changes in as that directly affects what I'doing with devfs.. I hope to get these changes integrated into my kernel tree on freefall but will want some people to look at the bulk 'accumulated' diffs before I make the big checkin.. particularly Bruce, could you check that this set of changes doesn't UNDO any of the cleanups I've seen you doing recently.. I hope to run the resulting kernel for a day or so before doing hte checkin.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 17:36:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA13161 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 17:36:43 -0700 Received: from elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (elf.kendall.mdcc.edu [147.70.150.122]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA13155 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 17:36:41 -0700 Received: (from freelist@localhost) by elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA21859; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 20:28:07 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 20:28:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Don's FList drop" To: Brian Tao cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netsite communications server works Great In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 27 Aug 1995, Brian Tao wrote: > On Thu, 24 Aug 1995, Don's FList drop wrote: > > > Netscape has a nice HTML based administration section, although it'll > > > probably only be used to set it up. > > > > I assume you've never seen the whole thing. There's a lot of useful stuff > > in there. You can up, restart and shut down the server, alter the max and > > EINet Galaxy's Web server has this kind of thing too, where ... my point wasn't that it's unique or amazing, or even worth the money, merely that I thought it _was_ stuff that was useful aside from at setup. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 19:50:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA18804 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 19:50:24 -0700 Received: from millenium.texas.net (millenium.texas.net [204.96.20.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18793 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 19:50:20 -0700 Received: (from willmann@localhost) by millenium.texas.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA22355; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 21:50:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 21:50:17 -0500 (CDT) From: R Robert Willman To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD 2.0.5 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have run into 3 current problems when installing 2.0.5. 1. After trying to change the path and doing so in a session, when I shutdown the system and restarted it, the changes to the path were gone and were not saved. I added /usr/X11R6/bin to the path. Also, I set umask to 022. I made these changes to try to set up X11R6 that came with your CD-rom. Whether I shutdown and halted the system and rebooted it, or shut it down, halted it, turned it off, and turned it back on, the attempted changes made using "set" were not saved and I would have to do them each time I logged in. 2. After I loaded the system and rebooted it, and then shut it down, halted it, and rebooted it, or did a shutdown and halt and turned the system off and then on, unless I had the CD-rom drive on and the disk in it, the system would not finish booting properly. This would happen if I turned off the computer entirely, turned off the CD-rom drive, removed it from the SCSI port, and put a SCSI terminator on the port at the back of the computer, and then turned the computer back on and booted it up. This is what the screen said at the end of the booting sequence: Automatic reboot in progress /dev/rsd0a: clean, 7659 free (107 frags, 944 blocks, 0.5% fragmentation) /dev/rsd0sle: clean, 271946 free (10354 frags, 32699 blocks, 3.1% fragmentation) cd9660: /dev/cd0a: Device not configured Filesystem mount failed, startup aborted Enter pathname of shell or RETURN for sh: If I had the CD-rom drive plugged into the computer, turned on, and had the disk in it, the booting would complete properly and I would be at a login in which I would put root and get into a C shell. 3. The X window system comes up but the screen is badly distorted, like it is made of tweed. I can see the three windows with red bars at the top, and that there is a clock in the upper right hand corner, but nothing can be read. It is not fuzzy, it is tweeded-out all over, including in the windows, as one mess. If I click the mouse in the background, the menu comes up, and it will show highlighted words as the pointer is pulled down, but the words cannot be read--they are too distorted. When I cycle through the resolutions (4 of them), using cntr-alt-numpad+, the size of the screen and windows change as each should. I have checked the config file and the settings for the S3 chipset. My system is described below. I have a 486DX4/100 (AMD chip) on an Asus motherboard, 24 mb ram, an Adaptec 2842 SCSI host bus adapter, a Diamond Stealth 64 VRAM graphics adapter, a Quantum SCSI hard drive, and a Radius PrecisionColor Display/17 monitor. And a regular 3.5 inch floppy. I put the horizontal and vertical frequencies from the Radius spec sheet into the config file for X11R6. On the hard drive I have a Novell Dos 7 partition and a Nextstep ver. 3.3 partition. I am trying to put Free BSD on the rest of the hard disk. Sincerely, Robert Willmann, Jr. willmann@texasnet 210-224-8866 San Antonio, Texas From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 20:05:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA19727 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 20:05:55 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA19717 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 20:05:52 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA15248; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 20:04:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA17802; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 20:06:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199508280306.UAA17802@corbin.Root.COM> To: R Robert Willman cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 27 Aug 95 21:50:17 CDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 20:06:44 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I have run into 3 current problems when installing 2.0.5. > >1. After trying to change the path and doing so in a session, when I >shutdown the system and restarted it, the changes to the path were gone and >were not saved. I added /usr/X11R6/bin to the path. Also, I set umask to >022. I made these changes to try to set up X11R6 that came with your >CD-rom. Whether I shutdown and halted the system and rebooted it, or shut >it down, halted it, turned it off, and turned it back on, the attempted >changes made using "set" were not saved and I would have to do them each >time I logged in. The path and umask should be set in your .cshrc file in your home directory. >2. After I loaded the system and rebooted it, and then shut it down, halted >it, and rebooted it, or did a shutdown and halt and turned the system off >and then on, unless I had the CD-rom drive on and the disk in it, the >system would not finish booting properly. This would happen if I turned off >the computer entirely, turned off the CD-rom drive, removed it from the SCSI >port, and put a SCSI terminator on the port at the back of the computer, and >then turned the computer back on and booted it up. This is what the screen >said at the end of the booting sequence: > >Automatic reboot in progress >/dev/rsd0a: clean, 7659 free (107 frags, 944 blocks, 0.5% fragmentation) >/dev/rsd0sle: clean, 271946 free (10354 frags, 32699 blocks, >3.1% fragmentation) > >cd9660: /dev/cd0a: Device not configured >Filesystem mount failed, startup aborted >Enter pathname of shell or RETURN for sh: > >If I had the CD-rom drive plugged into the computer, turned on, and had the >disk in it, the booting would complete properly and I would be at a login >in which I would put root and get into a C shell. You need to remove or comment out the /dev/cd0a entry in your /etc/fstab. >3. The X window system comes up but the screen is badly distorted, like >it is made of tweed. I can see the three windows with red bars at the >top, and that there is a clock in the upper right hand corner, but nothing >can be read. It is not fuzzy, it is tweeded-out all over, including in >the windows, as one mess. If I click the mouse in the background, the menu >comes up, and it will show highlighted words as the pointer is pulled down, >but the words cannot be read--they are too distorted. When I cycle through >the resolutions (4 of them), using cntr-alt-numpad+, the size of the screen >and windows change as each should. I have checked the config file and the >settings for the S3 chipset. My system is described below. Can't help you with this one. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 21:00:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA24679 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 21:00:38 -0700 Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA24673 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 21:00:35 -0700 Received: from latte.eng.umd.edu (latte.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.15]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id AAA25074; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 00:00:33 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by latte.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id AAA12038; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 00:00:32 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 00:00:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: R Robert Willman cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 27 Aug 1995, R Robert Willman wrote: > I have run into 3 current problems when installing 2.0.5. > > 1. After trying to change the path and doing so in a session, when I > shutdown the system and restarted it, the changes to the path were gone and > were not saved. I added /usr/X11R6/bin to the path. Also, I set umask to > 022. I made these changes to try to set up X11R6 that came with your > CD-rom. Whether I shutdown and halted the system and rebooted it, or shut > it down, halted it, turned it off, and turned it back on, the attempted > changes made using "set" were not saved and I would have to do them each > time I logged in. Your start-up shell config files are what sets the path. The start up config file for the /bin/csh shell is called .cshrc, and won't show up in an ordinary listing, you have to use ls -a. That is where you have to change a line, to add more to your path. This is an extrmemly basic question, and while it's fair to ask, it makes me want to recommend you get yourself a beginners unix book. It will save you tons of frustration, believe me. If possible, get one that says it covers BSD Unix, but when you go to the bookstore, you'll see that there's a wide array to suit your tastes. Unix books are getting more popular nowadays. > > 2. After I loaded the system and rebooted it, and then shut it down, halted > it, and rebooted it, or did a shutdown and halt and turned the system off > and then on, unless I had the CD-rom drive on and the disk in it, the > system would not finish booting properly. This would happen if I turned off > the computer entirely, turned off the CD-rom drive, removed it from the SCSI > port, and put a SCSI terminator on the port at the back of the computer, and > then turned the computer back on and booted it up. This is what the screen > said at the end of the booting sequence: > > Automatic reboot in progress > /dev/rsd0a: clean, 7659 free (107 frags, 944 blocks, 0.5% fragmentation) > /dev/rsd0sle: clean, 271946 free (10354 frags, 32699 blocks, > 3.1% fragmentation) > > cd9660: /dev/cd0a: Device not configured > Filesystem mount failed, startup aborted > Enter pathname of shell or RETURN for sh: > > If I had the CD-rom drive plugged into the computer, turned on, and had the > disk in it, the booting would complete properly and I would be at a login > in which I would put root and get into a C shell. > > 3. The X window system comes up but the screen is badly distorted, like > it is made of tweed. I can see the three windows with red bars at the > top, and that there is a clock in the upper right hand corner, but nothing > can be read. It is not fuzzy, it is tweeded-out all over, including in > the windows, as one mess. If I click the mouse in the background, the menu > comes up, and it will show highlighted words as the pointer is pulled down, > but the words cannot be read--they are too distorted. When I cycle through > the resolutions (4 of them), using cntr-alt-numpad+, the size of the screen > and windows change as each should. I have checked the config file and the > settings for the S3 chipset. My system is described below. > > I have a 486DX4/100 (AMD chip) on an Asus motherboard, 24 mb ram, an > Adaptec 2842 SCSI host bus adapter, a Diamond Stealth 64 VRAM graphics > adapter, a Quantum SCSI hard drive, and a Radius PrecisionColor Display/17 > monitor. And a regular 3.5 inch floppy. I put the horizontal and vertical > frequencies from the Radius spec sheet into the config file for X11R6. > > On the hard drive I have a Novell Dos 7 partition and a Nextstep ver. 3.3 > partition. I am trying to put Free BSD on the rest of the hard disk. > > Sincerely, > Robert Willmann, Jr. > willmann@texasnet > 210-224-8866 > San Antonio, Texas > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 21:41:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA28533 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 21:41:11 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA28526 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 21:41:08 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id GAA15729; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 06:41:05 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA07735; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 22:31:37 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA07386; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 22:30:55 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508272030.WAA07386@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: SCSI CDROM autochanger access causes fatal trap 12 To: hm@altona.hamburg.com Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 22:30:54 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Aug 27, 95 09:14:51 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1176 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > Fault virtual address = 0x60 > Fault code = supervisor read, page not present > Instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01250ac > Code segment = base 0x0 limit 0xfffff type 0x1b > = DPL 0, pres 1, def 321, gran 1 > Processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 > Current process = 470 (iozone) > Interrupt mask = bio > Kernel: type 12 trap, code = 0 > Stopped at _incore+0x48: cmpl %esi, 0x48(%ebx) > What can i do ? Is someone willing to help a bit to find the cause ? Can i convince you to use DDB? :-) If not, turn core dumps on, and try to take a post-mortem dump. The kernel-debug.FAQ might be of some help, though the section about how to prepare for core dumps is outdated in the version in 2.0.5. Simply add a `dumpon' command in your /etc/rc (after swapon has been run). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 22:44:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA02492 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 22:44:17 -0700 Received: from chrome.onramp.net (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA02476 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 22:44:00 -0700 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.onramp.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA00248 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 00:43:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199508280543.AAA00248@chrome.onramp.net> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.onramp.net: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ATAPI Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 00:43:28 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk OK, So where can I get a copy of the ATAPI spec? Does anyone on this list have (or know where to find) one on line? (Any vague chance of finding one specifically for the NEC 260?) Specifically, I guess I'd like to be able to interpret the command buffers, and know what the handshakes and protocols are supposed to be. As Joerg pointed out, the entire buffer from the probe attempt does appear to need to be byte-swapped. This fixes both the ident string problem and the devtype == AT_TYPE_CDROM problem. I've permuted an endless set of byte swapping on all the insw() and outsw() operations I can find in atapi.c, but I've clearly not yet stumbled onto the magic incantation. Also, as Steve Schwarz pointed out earlier, I too have this problem: > [4] Yet again, in the atapi.c file, I am having problems that I don't > know even a brutal hack for. (Help!) Here is what occurs. > wcdattach() calls atapi_request_immediate() with an ATAPI_MODE_SENSE > command. The latter makes it as far as the second call of atapi_io() > in this fragment: -------------------------------------------------------------------- if (atapi_start_cmd (ata, ac) >= 0 && atapi_wait_cmd (ata, ac) >= 0) { /* Send packet command. */ atapi_send_cmd (ata, ac); /* Do all needed i/o. */ while (atapi_io (ata, ac)) /* Wait for DRQ deassert. */ for (cnt=2000; cnt>0; --cnt) if (! (inb (ata->port + AR_STATUS) & ARS_DRQ)) break; } ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The first call of atapi_io() thinks it is in PHASE_CMDOUT, so it ends > up calling atapi_send_cmd() again. (I can't really tell if that is > right or wrong.) The second call of atapi_io() fails, because the > atapi_wait() call at the top fails with "controller not ready". And > that, unfortunately, is it. (I tried increasing the time that > atapi_wait() waits, but this did not help.) I can make the full (i.e. > DEBUG defined) output of the atapi driver available to anyone who > thinks it could help them figure out what is happening. I went so far as to comment out the atapi_send_cmd() here in atapi_request_immediate() and let it happen as a course of action in atapi_io(). This *appears* to correctly issue the command only once now. I'm not the least bit convinced that this is the *right* atapi_send_cmd() to allow to happen. Ie, do we sort of get into an out-of-sync situation in the phase state machine? However, I still see atapi_io() failing due to the atapi_wait() call returning error. The reason for this is apparently that the desired ARS_DRQ bit is never asserted during atapi_wait(). (These bits are wanted because the ac->count > 0.) I *think* all this might be translated into English as: In an effort to determine the capailities of the drive, the MODE_SENSE command is issued and expects 24 bytes in response from the drive. When the drive responds with the 24 bytes, I think the PHASE state machine doesn't recognize that it's getting a response to the command back and tries to send the command again. Serge are you out there? Can you help us out some please? Feh. Maybe it's bedtime for a bit... jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 23:39:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA04868 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 23:39:32 -0700 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA04859 ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 23:39:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199508280639.XAA04859@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: ATAPI To: jdl@chrome.onramp.net (Jon Loeliger) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 23:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508280543.AAA00248@chrome.onramp.net> from "Jon Loeliger" at Aug 28, 95 00:43:28 am From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1825 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jon Loeliger who wrote: > > OK, So where can I get a copy of the ATAPI spec? Does anyone > on this list have (or know where to find) one on line? > (Any vague chance of finding one specifically for the NEC 260?) The SFF specification (SFF8022 I think) floated around on the net long ago in its final draft version. I don't know about the NEC, but I pretty sure it is one of those drives that was made BEFORE the specification was made :( (why else would NEC make a nonstd drive?) > Specifically, I guess I'd like to be able to interpret the > command buffers, and know what the handshakes and protocols > are supposed to be. > > As Joerg pointed out, the entire buffer from the probe attempt > does appear to need to be byte-swapped. This fixes both the > ident string problem and the devtype == AT_TYPE_CDROM problem. Hmm, the specification says that the indendification string is byteswapped, and so are some of the "vendor specific" fields. There should be no differences in the entries for actual drive data. A solution may be that if the drive fails on the normal ATA probe (ie its no old IDE disk), then it is some kind of ATAPI device, if it fails the "standard" ATAPI probe it is a device that needs special treatment in one or more cases. Then look up the sucker in a tabel, and see if we know how to deal with it, or else notify the user... I think you can find some info in the linux(tm) driver on the NEC drive, I seem to remember some crude hacks in there to cope with this model. Hope this helps you further, I might have a few ideas left, just not much time to do anything with them :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Aug 27 23:48:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA05347 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 23:48:42 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA05328 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 23:48:11 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA22321; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:19:41 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508280649.QAA22321@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: ATAPI To: jdl@chrome.onramp.net (Jon Loeliger) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:19:40 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508280543.AAA00248@chrome.onramp.net> from "Jon Loeliger" at Aug 28, 95 00:43:28 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1103 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jon Loeliger stands accused of saying: > > OK, So where can I get a copy of the ATAPI spec? Does anyone > on this list have (or know where to find) one on line? > (Any vague chance of finding one specifically for the NEC 260?) They're on gatekeeper.dec.com; forgive me but I forget the exact paths. There are three documents of relative interest : ata-r4c.txt ATA standard, plain text. ata2-r3.doc ATA-2 standard, rev 3, MS Word document. ata3-r2.doc ATA-3 standard, rev 2, MS Word document. I haven't studied them closely, but they appear to follow the fine tradition of ATA standards 8( They're also available as ftp://genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au/pub/ata-doc.tar.gz if you can't find them on gatekeeper. > jdl -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 01:40:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA12039 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 01:40:45 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA11942 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 01:39:38 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HULNTGZ55S008GV0@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:16:08 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id LAA09831 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:48:52 +0200 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:48:52 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: netstat -a takes an eternity To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Message-id: <199508270948.LAA09831@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 02:32:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA15597 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:32:55 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA15590 for hackers; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:32:53 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:32:53 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508280932.CAA15590@freefall.FreeBSD.org> To: hackers Subject: have integrated 3 out of 4 lambert patches.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk they seem ok and in fact I definitly want one of them.... my test mache still seems to boot and run fine with them, but I will need to spend a little time tomorrow evening checking out what happens with NFS root mounting.. and other less-common operations.. so be aware that that functionallity MIGHT be broken at this moment.. these changes will be cleaned up a little.. soem functions are probably in teh wrong files and definitly there are some occurances of caddr_t that should I think be void* or similar.. the whole patch set can be found in ~julian/terry-cumulative.diff2 on freefall if you want to see EXACTLY what changed.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 02:33:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA15667 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:33:11 -0700 Received: from hustle.rahul.net (hustle.rahul.net [192.160.13.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA15657 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:33:09 -0700 Received: from RockyMountain.rahul.net by hustle.rahul.net with SMTP id AA10219 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5); Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:32:38 -0700 Received: by RockyMountain.rahul.net id AA10178 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:31:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:31:20 -0700 From: Pete Delaney Message-Id: <199508280931.AA10178@RockyMountain.rahul.net> To: freebsd-cd@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de Subject: Re: FreeBSD CD-ROM 2.0.5 - Any SPARC Porting Underway? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, wow@efn.org, Mark@RockyMountain.rahul.net, Bill@RockyMountain.rahul.net, davem@caip.rutgers.edu, paul@FreeBSD.org, joerg@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Julian: > From jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de Sat Aug 26 18:32:35 1995 > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 11:02:03 +0200 > From: Julian Howard Stacey > To: freebsd-cd@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de > Subject: FreeBSD CD-ROM 2.0.5 > Content-Length: 31501 > > -------- > > Some of you were asking about the new FreeBSD CD I had got just a few days > before my birthday 1st Aug, > (When Melanie & I were wearing the BSD Daemon T-Shirts > & I brought the CD along to show people :-) I'm wondering about getting a FreeBSD Coffee Mug. I'd live to see a photo of the two of you in the BSD T-Shirts. > > Some of you wanted to borrow it > (tricky, I tend to use it often myself, disc 1 of 2 mostly). I think I may have lucked out at the Palo Alto Art and Wine Festivel with Bob this weekend. I picked up a copy of FreeBSD 2.0.5 for $24 (both CD's) and a copy of Harrisons Internal Medicine for $20 (New price is $100). > > Here's the anouncement I just found: > > (PS I have no connection with Walnut, but am connected with FreeBSD, > for anyone feeling short of funds, I can copy it to 2 empty 525M tapes > instead (it's PD) ... of course 2 empty tapes cost more than a CD but if > you have no CD drive ... ) Thanks for the offer Julian. Is anyone looking at upgrading FreeBSD for full support of the SPARC? Now with David S. Miller having SPARC working rather well on the SPARC and BSDI dragging their feet on the BSDI release and increasing the price, I suspect it's time to add SPARC support to FreeBSD. I'm wondering about looking into this more. Is anyone else that you know interested? I have a bunch SparcStations that I can use, perhaps a PC would alos be helpfull. Wally or Bill might like a copy. > > Julian > --- > Julian H. Stacey Email: jhs@freebsd.org Web: www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ > Tel: +49 89 268616 Fax: +49 89 2608126 Time Zone: GMT+1 > Post: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany. > Internet, Unix & C Consultant > > ------- Forwarded Message > > Return-Path: freefall.cdrom.com!owner-freebsd-announce > Received: from reinfra.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.230.226]) > by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55350>; > Thu, 6 Jul 1995 22:09:59 +0200 > Received: from freefall.cdrom.com ([192.216.222.4]) > by reinfra.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <51583>; > Thu, 6 Jul 1995 22:09:38 +0200 > Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) > by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA29216 > ; Thu, 6 Jul 1995 13:09:01 -0700 > Received: (from majordom@localhost) > by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA28656 > for announce-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 1995 13:01:33 -0700 > Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) > by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA28644 > ; Thu, 6 Jul 1995 13:01:31 -0700 > X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com > didn't use HELO protocol > To: announce@freebsd.org > cc: pds@freebsd.org > Subject: FreeBSD 2.0.5 CD from Walnut Creek CDROM now shipping. > Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 22:01:30 +0200 > Message-ID: <28643.805060890@freefall.cdrom.com> > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > Sender: announce-owner@freebsd.org > Precedence: bulk > > Walnut Creek CDROM, in cooperation with the FreeBSD Project, is > proud to announce that FreeBSD 2.0.5R is now available on a 2 CD set > (at no extra charge) and shipping now. What is the 'R' bit? > > The first CD contains all packed distribution information necessary > for installing all components of the system, from FreeBSD binaries and > sources to XFree86 3.1.1u1. Great, it even supports the new Mach64 card. > The second CD contains a "live filesystem" which has all packages > and distribution information unpacked into a filesystem that you can > mount. Subsequent releases will probably see this gain additional > usefulness with full "run from the CD" functionality (it can actually > be done now with an MFS boot floppy containing symlinks, but this > still remains an "experts only" feature). Have a copy of this "experts only" floppy? > This CD also features Christian Gusenbauer's "dosboot" feature which > allows you to boot into the installation directly from the CD running > under DOS, allowing you to eliminate boot floppies entirely with a > supported CDROM drive. I wonder why booting of the CD is such a big deal. I works fine on SPARC. > > This CD comes with an unconditional money-back guarantee and may > be ordered from: > > Walnut Creek CDROM > Suite D-899 > 4041 Pike Lane > Concord CA 94520 > USA > > 1 800 786-9907 (Toll Free Sales) > 1 800 731-7177 (Toll Free Tech Support) > +1 510 674-0783 > +1 510 603-1234 (tech support) > +1 510 674-0821 (FAX) > > > The FreeBSD 2.0.5 release notes follow for those interested in knowing > more about this release before they buy: > > > RELEASE NOTES > FreeBSD > Release 2.0.5 > > 1. Technical overview > - --------------------- > > FreeBSD is a freely available, full source 4.4 BSD Lite based release > for Intel i386/i486/Pentium (or compatible) based PC's. It is based > primarily on software from U.C. Berkeley's CSRG group, with some > enhancements from NetBSD, 386BSD, and the Free Software Foundation. > > Since our release of FreeBSD 2.0 some 8 months ago, the performance, > feature set, and stability of FreeBSD has improved dramatically. The > largest change is a revamped VM system with a merged VM/file buffer > cache that not only increases performance, but reduces FreeBSD's > memory footprint, making a 4MB configuration a more acceptable > minimum. Other enhancements include full NIS client and server > support, transaction TCP support, dial-on-demand PPP, an improved SCSI > subsystem, early ISDN support, support for FDDI and Fast Ethernet > (100Mbit) adapters, improved support for the Adaptec 2940 (WIDE and > narrow) and many hundreds of bug fixes. Sounds great.. > We've also taken the comments and suggestions of many of our users to > heart and have attempted to provide what we hope is a more sane and > easily understood installation process. Your feedback on this > (constantly evolving) process is especially welcome! > > In addition to the base distributions, FreeBSD offers a new ported > software collection with some 270 commonly sought-after programs. The > list of ports ranges from http (WWW) servers, to games, languages, > editors and almost everything in between. The entire ports collection > requires only 10MB of storage, all ports being expressed as "deltas" > to their original sources. I'll looked and see if any SPARC activity is underway. Didn`t see any. Seems to be only application ports. > This makes it much easier for us to update > ports, and greatly reduces the disk space demands made by the older > 1.0 ports collection. To compile a port, you simply change to the > directory of the program you wish to install, type make and let the > system do the rest. The full original distribution for each port you > build is retrieved dynamically off of CDROM or a local ftp site, so > you need only enough disk space to build the ports you want. (Almost) > every port is also provided as a pre-compiled "package" which can be > installed with a simple command (pkg_add) by those who do not wish to > compile their own ports from source. See the file: > /usr/share/FAQ/Text/ports.FAQ > for a more complete description of the ports collection. Didn't see anyting about Sparc or other arch ports. > Since our first release of FreeBSD 1.0 nearly two years ago, FreeBSD > has changed almost entirely. A new port from the Berkeley 4.4 code > base was done, which brought the legal status of the system out of the > shadows with the blessing of Novell (the new owners of USL and UNIX). The > port to 4.4 has also brought in a host of new features, filesystems > and enhanced driver support. With our new unencumbered code base, we > have every reason to hope that we'll be able to release quality > operating systems without further legal encumbrance for some time to > come! > > FreeBSD 2.0.5 represents the culmination of 2 years of work and many > thousands of man hours put in by an international development team. > We hope you enjoy it! Sure would be nice to switch from SunOS to FreeBSD. Solaris looks like a dead end and Sun appears to have dropped support for SunOS so as to encourage users to switch to Solaris. I suppose this is may be a good business stratagy but it appears to be more of a commercial OS than a developers environment. > A number of additional documents which you may find very helpful in > the process of installing and using FreeBSD may also be found in > the "FAQ" directory, either under /usr/share/FAQ on an installed > system or at the top level of the CDROM or FTP distribution from > where you're reading this file. Please consult FAQ/Text/ROADMAP > for a brief description of the resources provided by the FAQ directory. > > For a list of contributors and a general project description, please see > the file "CONTRIB.FreeBSD" which should be bundled with your binary > distribution. > > Also see the "REGISTER.FreeBSD" file for information on registering > with the "Free BSD user counter". This counter is for ALL freely > available variants of BSD, not just FreeBSD, and we urge you to register > yourself with it. > > The core of FreeBSD does not contain DES code which would inhibit its > being exported outside the United States. There is an add-on package > to the core distribution, for use only in the United States, that > contains the programs that normally use DES. The auxiliary packages > provided separately can be used by anyone. A freely (from outside the > U.S.) exportable European distribution of DES for our non-U.S. users also > exists and is described in the FreeBSD FAQ. Sigh! > > If password security for FreeBSD is all you need, and you have no > requirement for copying encrypted passwords from different hosts > (Suns, DEC machines, etc) into FreeBSD password entries, then Hmmm, sounds like Suns may have already been ported. > FreeBSD's MD5 based security may be all you require! We feel that our > default security model is more than a match for DES, and without any > messy export issues to deal with. If you're outside (or even inside) > the U.S., give it a try! I wonder if Mark will ever forgive me for not worring about the the DES stuff in BSD Light when I asked him to put a copy that I asked him to pick up from Cygnus and send it to me in Germany. (Sorry Mark, I really didn't realize it would make you feel uncomfortable). > 1.1 What's new in 2.0.5? > - ------------------------ > > The following features were added or substantially improved between > the release of 2.0 and this 2.0.5 release. In order to facilitate > better communication, the person, or persons, responsible for each > enhancement is noted. Any questions regarding the new functionality > should be directed to them first. > > KERNEL: > > Merged VM-File Buffer Cache > - --------------------------- > A merged VM/buffer cache design greatly enhances overall system > performance and makes it possible to do a number of more optimal > memory allocation strategies that were not possible before. > > Owner: David Greenman (davidg@FreeBSD.org) and > John Dyson (dyson@implode.root.com) Sounds like what Sun did in Solaris. > > > Network PCB hash optimization > - ----------------------------- > For systems with a great number of active TCP connections (WEB and ftp > servers, for example), this greatly speeds up the lookup time required > to match an incoming packet up to its associated connection. > > Owner: David Greenman (davidg@FreeBSD.org) Sounds good. > > > Name cache optimization > - ----------------------- > The name-cache would cache all files of the same name to the same bucket, > which would put for instance all ".." entries in the same bucket. We added > the parent directory version to frustrate the hash, and improved the > management of the cache in various other ways while we were at it. > > Owner: Poul-Henning Kamp (phk@FreeBSD.org) > David Greenman (davidg@FreeBSD.org) Sounds good. > > > Less restrictive swap-spaces > - ---------------------------- > The need to compile the names of the swap devices into the kernel has been > removed. Now swapon will accept any block devices, up to the maximum > number of swap devices configured in the kernel. > > Owner: Poul-Henning Kamp (phk@FreeBSD.org) > David Greenman (davidg@FreeBSD.org) Great, I wonder if swapon also handles files. > > > Hard Wired SCSI Devices > - ----------------------- > Prior to 2.0.5, FreeBSD performed dynamic assignment of unit numbers > to SCSI devices as they were probed, allowing a SCSI device failure to > possibly change unit number assignment and prevent filesystems on > still functioning disks from mounting. Hard wiring allows static > allocation of unit numbers (and hence device names) to scsi devices > based on SCSI ID and bus. SCSI configuration occurs in the kernel > config file. Samples of the configuration syntax can be found in the > scsi(4) man page or the LINT kernel config file. > > Owner: Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) > Sources involved: sys/scsi/* usr.sbin/config/* Sounds good, I've found dynamic assignment of /dev Solaris fifficult to see the benifit too. For example, if I moved the Sbus cards I have to change my openwin command for support of two monitors. > > > Slice Support > - ------------- > FreeBSD now supports a "slice" abstraction which makes it more > completely interoperable with other operating system partitions. This > support will allow FreeBSD to inhabit DOS extended partitions. > > Owner: Bruce Evans (bde@FreeBSD.org) > Sources involved: sys/disklabel.h sys/diskslice.h sys/dkbad.h > kern/subr_diskslice.c kern/subr_dkbad.c > i386/isa/diskslice_machdep.c > i386/isa/wd.c scsi/sd.c dev/vn/vn.c I suppose this is nice for guys with DOS stuff. > > > Support for Ontrack Disk Manager Version 6.0 > - -------------------------------------------- > Support has been added for disks which use Ontrack Disk Manager. The > fdisk program does NOT know about it however, so make all changes > using the install program on the boot.flp or the Ontrack Disk Manager > tool under DOS. > > Owner: Poul-Henning Kamp (phk@FreeBSD.org) Hmmm. sounds a bit confusing to a non-DOS dude. > > > Bad144 is back and working > - -------------------------- > Bad144 works again, though the semantics are slightly different than > before in that the bad-spots are kept relative to the slice rather > than absolute on the disk. > > Owner: Bruce Evans (bde@FreeBSD.org) > Poul-Henning Kamp (phk@FreeBSD.org) I suppose this handles bad sectors. > > > NEW DEVICE SUPPORT: > > SCSI and CDROM Devices > > Matsushita/Panasonic (Creative) CD-ROM driver > - --------------------------------------------- > The Matsushita/Panasonic CR-562 and CR-563 drives are now supported > when connected to a Sound Blaster or 100% compatible host adapter. Up > to four host adapters are supported for a total of 16 CD-ROM drives. > The audio functions are supported, along with access to the raw (2352 byte) > data frames of any compact disc. Audio discs may be played using Karoke > variable speed functions. > > Owner: Frank Durda IV bsdmail@nemesis.lonestar.org > Sources involved: isa/matcd Sounds nice. > > > Adaptec 2742/2842/2940 SCSI driver > - ---------------------------------- > The original 274x/284x driver has evolved considerably since the 2.0 > release. We now offer full support for the 2940 series as well as the > Wide models of these cards. The arbitration bug (as well as many > others) that caused the driver problems with fast devices has been > corrected and there is even experimental tagged queuing support > (kernel option "AHC_TAGENABLE"). John Aycock has also released the > sequencer code under a "Berkeley style" copyright making the driver > entirely clean of the GPL. > > Owner: Justin Gibbs (gibbs@FreeBSD.org) > Sources involved: isa/aic7770.c pci/aic7870.c i386/scsi/* > sys/dev/aic7xxx/* So is the Adaptec 2940 the best (for the money) card to get these days? > > > NCR5380/NCR53400 SCSI ("ProAudio Spectrum") driver > - -------------------------------------------------- > Owner: core > Submitted by: Serge Vakulenko (vak@cronyx.ru) > Sources involved: isa/ncr5380.c Any better than the Adaptec? > > > Sony CDROM driver > - ----------------- > Owner: core > Submitted by: Mikael Hybsch (micke@dynas.se) > Sources involved: isa/scd.c I wonder if my SPARC compatable drive will work. > > > Serial Devices > > SDL Communications Riscom/8 Serial Board Driver > - ----------------------------------------------- > Owner: Andrey Chernov (ache@FreeBSD.org) > Sources involved: isa/rc.c isa/rcreg.h > > > Cyclades Cyclom-y Serial Board Driver > - ------------------------------------- > Owner: Bruce Evans (bde@FreeBSD.org) > Submitted by: Andrew Werple (andrew@werple.apana.org.au) and > Heikki Suonsivu (hsu@cs.hut.fi) > Obtained from: NetBSD > Sources involved: isa/cy.c > > > Cronyx/Sigma sync/async serial driver > - ------------------------------------- > Owner: core > Submitted by: Serge Vakulenko > Sources involved: isa/cronyx.c > > > > Networking > > Diskless booting > - ---------------- > Diskless booting in 2.0.5 is much improved. The boot-program is in > src/sys/i386/boot/netboot, and can be run from an MSDOS system or > burned into an EPROM. Local swapping is also possible. WD, SMC, 3COM > and Novell ethernet cards are currently supported. > > > DEC DC21140 Fast Ethernet driver > - -------------------------------- > This driver supports any of the numerous NICs using the DC21140 chipset > including the 100Mb DEC DE-500-XA and SMC 9332. > > Owner: core > Submitted by: Matt Thomas (thomas@lkg.dec.com) > Sources involved: pci/if_de.c pci/dc21040.h > > > DEC FDDI (DEFPA/DEFEA) driver > - ----------------------------- > Owner: core > Submitted by: Matt Thomas (thomas@lkg.dec.com) > Sources involved: pci/if_pdq.c pci/pdq.c pci/pdq_os.h pci/pdqreg.h > > > 3Com 3c505 (Etherlink/+) NIC driver > - ----------------------------------- > Owner: core > Submitted by: Dean Huxley (dean@fsa.ca) > Obtained from: NetBSD > Sources involved: isa/if_eg.c > > > Fujitsu MB86960A family of NICs driver > - ------------------------------------- > Owner: core > Submitted by: M.S. (seki@sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp) > Sources involved: isa/if_fe.c > > > Intel EtherExpress driver > - ------------------------- > Owner: Rodney W. Grimes (rgrimes@FreeBSD.org) > Sources involved: isa/if_ix.c isa/if_ixreg.h > > > 3Com 3c589 driver > - ----------------- > Owner: core > Submitted by: "HOSOKAWA Tatsumi" (hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp), > Seiji Murata (seiji@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp) and > Noriyuki Takahashi (hor@aecl.ntt.jp) > Sources involved: isa/if_zp.c > > > IBM Credit Card Adapter driver > - ------------------------------ > Owner: core > Submitted by: "HOSOKAWA Tatsumi" (hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp), > Sources involved: isa/pcic.c isa/pcic.h > > > EDSS1 and 1TR6 ISDN interface driver > - ------------------------------------ > Owner: core > Submitted by: Dietmar Friede (dfriede@drnhh.neuhaus.de) and > Juergen Krause (jkr@saarlink.de) > Sources involved: gnu/isdn/* > > > Miscellaneous Drivers > > Joystick driver > - --------------- > Owner: Jean-Marc Zucconi (jmz@FreeBSD.org) > Sources involved: isa/joy.c > > > National Instruments "LabPC" driver > - ----------------------------------- > Owner: Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) > Sources involved: isa/labpc.c > > > WD7000 driver > - ------------- > Owner: Olof Johansson (offe@ludd.luth.se) > > > Pcvt Console driver > - ------------------- > Owner: Joerg Wunsch (joerg@FreeBSD.org) > Submitted by: Hellmuth Michaelis (hm@altona.hamburg.com) > Sources involved: isa/pcvt/* usr.sbin/pcvt/* > > > BSD-audio emulator for VAT driver > - --------------------------------- > Owner: Amancio Hasty (ahasty@FreeBSD.org) and > Paul Traina (pst@FreeBSD.org) > Sources involved: isa/sound/vat_audio.c isa/sound/vat_audioio.h > > > National Instruments AT-GPIB and AT-GPIB/TNT GPIB driver > - -------------------------------------------------------- > Owner: core > Submitted by: Fred Cawthorne (fcawth@delphi.umd.edu) > Sources involved: isa/gpib.c isa/gpib.h isa/gpibreg.h > > > Genius GS-4500 hand scanner driver > - ---------------------------------- > Owner: core > Submitted by: Gunther Schadow (gusw@fub46.zedat.fu-berlin.de) > Sources involved: isa/gsc.c isa/gscreg.h > > > CORTEX-I Frame Grabber > - ---------------------- > Owner: core > Submitted by: Paul S. LaFollette, Jr. > Sources involved: isa/ctx.c isa/ctxreg.h > > > Video Spigot video capture card > - ------------------------------- > Owner: Jim Lowe > > > > 1.2 Experimental features > - ------------------------- > > The unionfs and LFS file systems are known to be severely broken in > 2.0.5. This is in part due to old bugs that we haven't had time to > resolve yet and the need to update these file systems to deal with the > new VM system. We hope to address these issues in a later release of > FreeBSD. > > FreeBSD now supports running iBCS2 compatible binaries (currently SCO > UNIX 3.2.2 & 3.2.4 and ISC 2.2 COFF format are supported). The iBCS2 > emulator is in its early stages, but it is functional, we haven't been > able to do exhaustive testing (lack of commercial apps), but almost > all of SCO's 3.2.2 binaries are working, so is an old INFORMIX-2.10 > for SCO. Further testing is nessesary to complete this project. There > is also work under way for ELF & XOUT loaders, and most of the svr4 > syscall wrappers have been written. > > FreeBSD also implements enough of its Linux compatibility that we > can now run Linux DOOM! See the ``xperimnt'' directory (on your local > FTP server or CDROM) for full docs on how to set this up. > > Owner: Soren Schmidt (sos) & Sean Eric Fagan (sef) > Sources involved: sys/i386/ibcs2/* + misc kernel changes. > > > 2. Supported Configurations > - --------------------------- > > FreeBSD currently runs on a wide variety of ISA, VLB, EISA and PCI bus > based PC's, ranging from 386sx to Pentium class machines (though the > 386sx is not recommended). Support for generic IDE or ESDI drive > configurations, various SCSI controller, network and serial cards is > also provided. > > Following is a list of all disk controllers and ethernet cards currently > known to work with FreeBSD. Other configurations may very well work, and > we have simply not received any indication of this. > > > 2.1. Disk Controllers > - --------------------- > > WD1003 (any generic MFM/RLL) > WD1007 (any generic IDE/ESDI) > IDE > ATA > > Adaptec 152x series ISA SCSI controllers > Adaptec 154x series ISA SCSI controllers > Adaptec 174x series EISA SCSI controller in standard and enhanced mode. > Adaptec 274X/284X/2940 (Narrow/Wide/Twin) series ISA/EISA/PCI SCSI controllers > Adaptec AIC-6260 and AIC-6360 based boards, which includes > the AHA-152x and SoundBlaster SCSI cards. > > ** Note: You cannot boot from the SoundBlaster cards as they have no > on-board BIOS, which is necessary for mapping the boot device into the > system BIOS I/O vectors. They're perfectly usable for external tapes, > CDROMs, etc, however. The same goes for any other AIC-6x60 based card > without a boot ROM. Some systems DO have a boot ROM, which is generally > indicated by some sort of message when the system is first powered up > or reset. Check your system/board documentation for more details. > > [Note that Buslogic was formerly known as "Bustec"] > Buslogic 545S & 545c > Buslogic 445S/445c VLB SCSI controller > Buslogic 742A, 747S, 747c EISA SCSI controller. > Buslogic 946c PCI SCSI controller > Buslogic 956c PCI SCSI controller > > NCR 53C810 and 53C825 PCI SCSI controller. > NCR5380/NCR53400 ("ProAudio Spectrum") SCSI controller. > > DTC 3290 EISA SCSI controller in 1542 emulation mode. > > UltraStor 14F, 24F and 34F SCSI controllers. > > Seagate ST01/02 SCSI controllers. > > Future Domain 8xx/950 series SCSI controllers. > > WD7000 SCSI controller. > > With all supported SCSI controllers, full support is provided for > SCSI-I & SCSI-II peripherals, including Disks, tape drives (including > DAT) and CD ROM drives. > > The following CD-ROM type systems are supported at this time: > (cd) SCSI (also includes ProAudio Spectrum and SoundBlaster SCSI) > (mcd) Mitsumi proprietary interface > (matcd) Matsushita/Panasonic (Creative) proprietary interface > (scd) Sony proprietary interface > > Note: CD-Drives with IDE interfaces are not supported at this time. > > Some controllers have limitations with the way they deal with >16MB of > memory, due to the fact that the ISA bus only has a DMA address space > of 24 bits. If you do your arithmetic, you'll see that this makes it > impossible to do direct DMA to any address >16MB. This limitation is > even true of some EISA controllers (which are normally 32 bit) when > they're configured to emulate an ISA card, which they then do in *all* > respects. This problem is avoided entirely by IDE controllers (which > do not use DMA), true EISA controllers (like the UltraStor, Adaptec > 1742A or Adaptec 2742) and most VLB (local bus) controllers. In the > cases where it's necessary, the system will use "bounce buffers" to > talk to the controller so that you can still use more than 16Mb of > memory without difficulty. > > > 2.2. Ethernet cards > - ------------------- > > Allied-Telesis AT1700 and RE2000 cards > SMC Elite 16 WD8013 ethernet interface, and most other WD8003E, > WD8003EBT, WD8003W, WD8013W, WD8003S, WD8003SBT and WD8013EBT > based clones. SMC Elite Ultra is also supported. > > DEC EtherWORKS III NICs (DE203, DE204, and DE205) > DEC EtherWORKS II NICs (DE200, DE201, DE202, and DE422) > DEC DC21140 based NICs (SMC???? DE???) > DEC FDDI (DEFPA/DEFEA) NICs > > Fujitsu FMV-181 and FMV-182 > > Intel EtherExpress > > Isolan AT 4141-0 (16 bit) > Isolink 4110 (8 bit) > > Novell NE1000, NE2000, and NE2100 ethernet interface. > > 3Com 3C501 cards > > 3Com 3C503 Etherlink II > > 3Com 3c505 Etherlink/+ > > 3Com 3C507 Etherlink 16/TP > > 3Com 3C509, 3C579, 3C589 (PCMCIA) Etherlink III > > Toshiba ethernet cards > > PCMCIA ethernet cards from IBM and National Semiconductor are also > supported. > > > 2.3. Misc > - --------- > > AST 4 port serial card using shared IRQ. > > ARNET 8 port serial card using shared IRQ. > > BOCA ATIO66 6 port serial card using shared IRQ. > > Cyclades Cyclom-y Serial Board. > > STB 4 port card using shared IRQ. > > Mitsumi (all models) CDROM interface and drive. > > SDL Communications Riscom/8 Serial Board. > > SoundBlaster SCSI and ProAudio Spectrum SCSI CDROM interface and drive. > > Matsushita/Panasonic (Creative SoundBlaster) CDROM interface and drive. > > Adlib, SoundBlaster, SoundBlaster Pro, ProAudioSpectrum, Gravis UltraSound > and Roland MPU-401 sound cards. > > FreeBSD currently does NOT support IBM's microchannel (MCA) bus, but > support is apparently close to materializing. Details will be posted > as the situation develops. > > > 3. Obtaining FreeBSD > - -------------------- > > You may obtain FreeBSD in a variety of ways: > > 1. FTP/Mail > > You can ftp FreeBSD and any or all of its optional packages from > `ftp.freebsd.org' - the official FreeBSD release site. > > For other locations that mirror the FreeBSD software see the file > MIRROR.SITES. Please ftp the distribution from the nearest site > to you netwise. > > If you do not have access to the internet and electronic mail is your > only recourse, then you may still fetch the files by sending mail to > `ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com' - putting the keyword "help" in your message > to get more information on how to fetch files from ftp.freebsd.org. > Note: This approach will end up sending many *tens of megabytes* > through the mail, and should only be employed as an absolute LAST > resort! > > > 2. CDROM > > FreeBSD 2.0.5 may be ordered on CDROM from: > > Walnut Creek CDROM > 4041 Pike Lane, Suite D > Concord CA 94520 > 1-800-786-9907, +1-510-674-0783, +1-510-674-0821 (fax) > > Or via the internet from orders@cdrom.com or http://www.cdrom.com. > Their current catalog can be obtained via ftp as: > ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/cdrom/catalog. > > Cost per CD is $39.95, or $24.95 with a FreeBSD subscription. With > a subscription, you will automatically receive updates as they > are released. Your credit card will be billed when each disk is shipped > and you may cancel your subscription at any time without further obligation. > > Walnut Creek CDROM also sells a full line of FreeBSD related merchandise such > as T-shirts ($14.95, available in "child", Large and XL sizes), coffee mugs > ($9.95), tattoos ($0.25 each) and posters ($3.00). > > Shipping (per order not per disc) is $5 in the US, Canada or > Mexico and $9.00 overseas. They accept Visa, Mastercard, Discover, > American Express or checks in U.S. Dollars and ship COD within the > United States. California residents please add 8.25% sales tax. > > Should you be dissatisfied for any reason, the CD comes with an > unconditional return policy. > > > Reporting problems, making suggestions, submitting code > - ------------------------------------------------------- > > Your suggestions, bug reports and contributions of code are always > valued - please do not hesitate to report any problems you may find > (preferably with a fix attached if you can!). > > The preferred method to submit bug reports from a machine with > internet mail connectivity is to use the send-pr command. Bug reports > will be dutifully filed by our faithful bugfiler program and you can > be sure that we'll do our best to respond to all reported bugs as soon > as possible. > > If, for some reason, you are unable to use the send-pr command to > submit a bug report, you can try to send it to: > > bugs@FreeBSD.org > > > Otherwise, for any questions or suggestions, please send mail to: > > questions@FreeBSD.org > > Additionally, being a volunteer effort, we are always happy to have > extra hands willing to help - there are already far more enhancements > to be done than we can ever manage to do by ourselves! To contact us > on technical matters, or with offers of help, you may send mail to: > > hackers@FreeBSD.org > > Since these mailing lists can experience significant amounts of > traffic, if you have slow or expensive mail access and you are > only interested in keeping up with significant FreeBSD events, you may > find it preferable to subscribe to: > > announce@FreeBSD.org > > > All but the freebsd-bugs groups can be freely joined by anyone wishing > to do so. Send mail to MajorDomo@FreeBSD.org and include the keyword > `help' on a line by itself somewhere in the body of the message. This > will give you more information on joining the various lists, accessing > archives, etc. There are a number of mailing lists targeted at > special interest groups not mentioned here, so send mail to majordomo > and ask about them! > > > 6. Acknowledgements > - ------------------- > > FreeBSD represents the cumulative work of many dozens, if not > hundreds, of individuals from around the world who have worked very > hard to bring you this release. It would be very difficult, if not > impossible, to enumerate everyone who's contributed to FreeBSD, but > nonetheless we shall try (in alphabetical order, of course). If your > name is not mentioned, please be assured that its omission is entirely > accidental. > > > The Computer Systems Research Group (CSRG), U.C. Berkeley. > > Bill Jolitz, for his initial work with 386BSD. > > The FreeBSD Core Team > (in alphabetical order by first name): > > Andreas Schulz > Andrey A. Chernov > Bruce Evans > David Greenman > Garrett A. Wollman > Gary Palmer > Geoff Rehmet > Jack Vogel Hmmm. > John Dyson > Jordan K. Hubbard > Justin Gibbs > Paul Richards > Poul-Henning Kamp > Rich Murphey > Rodney W. Grimes > Satoshi Asami > Sxren Schmidt > > Special mention to: > > Walnut Creek CDROM, without whose help (and continuing support) > this release would never have been possible. > > Dermot McDonnell for his donation of a Toshiba XM3401B CDROM > drive. > > Additional FreeBSD helpers and beta testers: > > J.T. Conklin Julian Elischer > Frank Durda IV Peter Dufault > Sean Eric Fagan Jeffrey Hsu > Terry Lambert L Jonas Olsson > Chris Provenzano Dave Rivers > Guido van Rooij Steven Wallace > Atsushi Murai Scott Mace > Nate Williams > > And everyone at Montana State University for their initial support. > > > Jordan would also like to give special thanks to Poul-Henning Kamp and > Gary Palmer, both of whom put in long hours helping him to construct > the new installation utility. Poul, being a proud new father, was > especially pressed for time and yet somehow managed to put in > a significant amount of effort anyway. This release could not have > happened without him! Thank you both! > > Thanks also to everyone else who helped, especially those not > mentioned, and we sincerely hope you enjoy this release of FreeBSD! > > > The FreeBSD Core Team > > $Id: RELNOTES,v 1.10 1995/06/10 09:56:30 jkh Exp $ > > ------- End of Forwarded Message -pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 02:58:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA17674 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:58:05 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA17664 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:58:01 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA00634; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:57:57 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508280957.CAA00634@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: have integrated 3 out of 4 lambert patches.. To: julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508280932.CAA15590@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Julian Elischer" at Aug 28, 95 02:32:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 927 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > they seem ok and in fact I definitly want one of them.... > my test mache still seems to boot and run fine with them, > but I will need to spend a little time tomorrow evening > checking out what happens with NFS root mounting.. > and other less-common operations.. > so be aware that that functionallity MIGHT be broken at this moment.. > > these changes will be cleaned up a little.. > soem functions are probably in teh wrong files and definitly there are some > occurances of caddr_t that should I think be void* or similar.. > > the whole patch set can be found in ~julian/terry-cumulative.diff2 > on freefall if you want to see EXACTLY what changed.. Can I ask why you folded them all into _one_ commit? What was the technical advantage to doing this? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 03:28:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA20257 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 03:28:46 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA20241 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 03:28:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA02874; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 03:28:38 -0700 To: doc@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Argh. I think we need to do a quick reality-check on our docs.. Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 03:28:38 -0700 Message-ID: <2872.809605718@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I was responding to a user's message on the net today and he was having some trouble with the 3C509 ethernet card. "Aha!" says I. "I remember seeing something about this somewhere from Rod and it's in the docs, so I'll just point him at it!" Famous last words. I couldn't _find_ the bleedin' reference! After searching through the handbook and the FAQ, I came to two very quick conclusions: 1. There is a lot of redundancy between the two. 2. We really really need a permuted index!! If it's this much trouble for _me_ to find things, and I'm supposed to sort of know the lay of the land here, just imagine how hard it is for the poor user! I don't mean to sound like I'm whining, but this is a real problem and I'm coming to rely more and more heavily on the docs as the 2.1 install comes closer. Most people probably don't know that the 2.1 installation will have Lynx on the boot floppy and use it for browsing ALL the doc! This means that what's on the floppy will no longer be something that comes out of /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/..., it will be a subset of the handbook itself! This was necessary due to the fact that much of sysinstall/help/* wound up migrating straight into the handbook and there's just no sense in maintaining two versions. We also need to bring the foreign-language versions over so that all that work isn't lost, and I daresay that John Fieber could use some help here! I hate to make this "help us with the docs, please!" plea so often in -hackers, but the docs really are becoming a significant keystone in how FreeBSD is presented, from install time onwards, and we ALL need to start taking them much more seriously! I think that this is a good thing since the docs will never really mature and grow without some "serious mission in life" like providing the initial install documentation, but putting this degree of pressure on them also has its price. Could I get some volunteers for the following projects? 1. Fill in the *'d topics in the Handbook. Some people have told me that they'd like to help with the docs if they just knew what needed doing, and I'd say that John has made it pretty clear at a glance if you just take a look at http://www.freebsd.org/Handbook and see which items have asterisks next to them. If you take a `*'d item, please also send a note to doc@FreeBSD.org so that work isn't unnecessarity duplicated. Please don't take something you won't finish, since by "adopting" it you're also essentially dissuading anyone else from doing so! 2. Look at /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/${LANG}/* and see if you can help John create a language-specific section for whichever language it is you're most interested in. This is not only helpful to the multi-lingual boot floppy work but also helps our effort to eventually have versions of the Handbook available in multiple languages! Wouldn't you like to see future versions of the handbook available in German, French, Spanish or Russian? In time I may even have WC talked into printing a version of the handbook as an inside booklet in the CD, and I see no reason why country-specific versions of the CD shouldn't be produced. If you can sell a few thousand, say, spanish editions of the CD then it more than pays for the I18N work. This makes the local spanish market pretty happy too, so everyone wins. However, whether or not we get all of these nifty things really sort of depends on us, and only us, for now. I personally am really enthusiastic about the prospect of all of this coming together, but I know that neither John nor I have sufficent time to do all the work necessary. I'd like to keep myself focused on the boot floppy end of things so that we have a reasonable chance of the whole idea _working_ in the install, and I think John would probably like to look at the design issues surrounding the handbook as a whole (and in particular, I'm going to need his help with the production of the boot floppy version of the handbook) so that keeps him pretty busy. So. anyway... In case you didn't feel like reading all of the above, it can also be summarized as: "Help! Help! Help! Fire in docs! People with big feet needed!" Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 04:21:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA24422 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:21:45 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA24411 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:21:42 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA00923; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:21:31 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508281121.EAA00923@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Argh. I think we need to do a quick reality-check on our docs.. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2872.809605718@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 28, 95 03:28:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 855 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I was responding to a user's message on the net today and he was > having some trouble with the 3C509 ethernet card. "Aha!" says I. "I > remember seeing something about this somewhere from Rod and it's in > the docs, so I'll just point him at it!" Not me, I don't know squat about 3Com products (other than there is a lot of that junk out there :-)). I'm a SMC/Compex shop... > > So. anyway... In case you didn't feel like reading all of the above, > it can also be summarized as: "Help! Help! Help! Fire in docs! > People with big feet needed!" oh, you want to borrow the Halon system to help with the fire :-) :-) Sorry, no big feet, just big sticks :-) :-).... > Jordan > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 04:47:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA26298 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:47:43 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA26289 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:47:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA03378; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:47:31 -0700 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Argh. I think we need to do a quick reality-check on our docs.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:21:31 PDT." <199508281121.EAA00923@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:47:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3376.809610451@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Not me, I don't know squat about 3Com products (other than there is > a lot of that junk out there :-)). Argh! Well, it was *somebody* that knew all of this. Care to step forward with your contribution for the hardware section of the Handbook? Please?? :-) People are having problems with the 3COM cards and they need their own section. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 04:57:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA27227 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:57:45 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA27211 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:57:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA03417 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:57:30 -0700 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: postmaster@yggdrasil.com: Yggdrasil Product Information Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 04:57:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3415.809611050@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For your general amusement/info/enlightenment. I find the fanfare surrounding the "buildable source tree!" to be somewhat amusing, but some of the other features I don't get to be quite so smug about. They're not entirely stupid, these guys! Take a good look at the feature-set of this product.. ------- Forwarded Message Date: Mon, 28 Aug 95 04:44 PDT To: Subject: Yggdrasil Product Information From: postmaster@yggdrasil.com [For information on technical support services, send an empty email message to "tech-support-info@yggdrasil.com."] ********************************* Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. * YGGDRASIL PLUG-AND-PLAY LINUX * 4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205 * FALL 1994 * (408) 261-6630, fax (408) 261-6631 ********************************* San Jose, CA 95129-1034 Contents: Executive Summary New Features About The Company Highlights Product Philosophy What Makes Plug-and-Play Linux Easy To Use? Software Version Numbers Hardware Compatability How to get a free copy How to get a copy by tomorrow Subscriptions Upgrades and Crossgrades The Linux Bible OSF/Motif Resellers and Technical Support Vendors Wanted Technical Support Direct sales order form EXECUTIVE SUMMARY 18 DEC 1994 SAN JOSE, California--Yggdrasil Computing, Incorporated produces a Linux-based operating system release on CD-ROM that includes a fully rebuildable source tree, hybrid hard disk/CD-ROM installation, and numerous graphical configuration panels, including automated internet connectivity setup. Our current release, Fall 1994, of Plug-and-Play Linux has been called the "Bargain of the year" by PC Magazine's John C. Dvorak in his "Inside Track" column. The company now expects to have a unit volume for this release of at least one quarter that of Novell UnixWare. Yggdrasil's product line also include OSF/Motif and "The Linux Bible, 2nd Edition." Five dollars per copy of OSF/Motif sold will be donated to the development of a free Motif clone, which is the subject of a seperate announcement. "The Linux Bible, 2nd Edition" is the collected works of the Linux Documentation Project (LDP). The LDP is not a part of Yggdrasil, but will receive a donation of one dollar per copy sold. For more information, contact Cyndi June at (408) 261-6630, fax (408) 261-6631, or send email to info@yggdrasil.com. PRESS CONTACT: Adam J. Richter (408) 261-6630 NEW FEATURES ARCHITECTURAL o FULLY BUILDABLE SOURCE TREE. Rebuild the whole system with "cd /usr/src ; make install-clean". Use the new "whence" command find source code for a file. For example: % whence csh /bin/csh is actually /usr/bin/tcsh /usr/bin/tcsh: Linux/i386 demand-paged executable (QMAGIC) /usr/bin/tcsh installed from /usr/src/system/tcsh-6.05/tcsh o HYBRID INSTALLATION. Any software not found on your hard disk is run from the CDROM if the CD is mounted. Useful for infrequently used programs or for trying out software before deciding whether or not to install it. o DOS MSCDEX SUPPORT. A new kernel facility written by Ross Biro at Yggdrasil that allows the kernel to use BIOS and DOS (MSCDEX) to access hard disks and CDROM drives that are not directly supported by Linux. The reliability of this facility is dependent on how well behaved the BIOS or MSCDEX driver being used is, but we have booted the system on a post-July-1993 Phillips cm205 and an Orchid, both of which are not supported directly by Linux, as well a Mitsumi drive at an unsupported IO address. These enhancements will be submitted for inclusion in Linus Torvald's kernel releases and have already been released on the internet. o TRANSPARENT COMPRESSION. CD looks like a 1GB+ filesystem. PERFORMANCE o SCSI clustering, multisector IDE (turned off by default). All binaries, including the entire X window system, the kernel, the C compiler, and emacs compiled with "-O2" in QMAGIC format. SCSI clustering alone seems to have reduced the build time on the source tree on a 486DX2-66 from 28 hours to 22. o Minimal installation now puts the shared C library and bash on the hard disk, accelerating execution of almost all binaries and shell scripts. This CD dependent configuration now uses 10 MB of disk and is actually a bit of a misnomer because you *can* run it without the CD mounted, although you will be able to do little more than mount the CD. INTERNET CONNECTIVITY o INTERNET SHELL ACCESS up to 1 month or $40 (about 20 hours) with a major New England internet provider. If you're not in New England, you can save on the long distance charges by using the CompuServe from most populated areas of the world. (CompuServe-Net, AT&T and other phone bills are *not* included in the free service). You must be 18 or older, because the service has some "adult" areas. You must sign the credit card authorization for usage after the first $40 or first month, although it is perfectly OK to cancel after your free time has expired. o Graphical control panels for incoming InterNetNews (NNTP), outgoing UUCP, and serial internet connections by SLIP or CSLIP, preconfigured with sample values, so you just change a few fields and press "save." This should save you a lot of time and work if you're connecting to the internet. These are in addition to the existing graphical control panels. Screen snapshots in that illustrate the graphical control panel and multimedia email features are FTPable from yggdrasil.com: X windows screen dumps: ftp.yggdrasil.com:pub/pictures/*.xwd View with "xwud -in file.xwd" GIF files: ftp.yggdrasil.com:pub/pictures/*.gif View with "display *.gif" (if you use ImageMagic), or "xv *.gif" (if you use xv). You can also have these images shown on your internet color X display by logging into yggdrasil.com as "rdemo". o MULTIMEDIA EMAIL. When you log in as "guest", and start X windows, you are reminded to read multimedia email with Andrew "messages", which comes preconfigured with a sample multimedia email message. The message includes hyperlinks to some documentation and a picture of Saturn. Multimedia email is delivered just like regular email. If you've put off learning a multimedia email system, this is an easy way to take the plunge. MISCELLANEOUS o This release was the first Linux distribution to have X11R6 shared libraries (other distributions that have R6 only have static libraries, which can make binaries excessively large). The shared libraries and executables are downward compatible with R5 in all cases that we tested. o Linux 1.1.47 kernel, GCC 2.5.8, libc 4.5.2... . Lucid Emacs 19.10 and ImageMagic 3.2 have better looking menus. o A response card for a free copy of THE LINUX JOURNAL. o MOTIF: Locked copy of MetroLink Motif on the CD (also available on floppies) costs $149.95 per CPU. For each copy that we sell, $5 is donated to the development of a free motif clone. Ours is the only Linux Motif with a simple no-nonsense license statement instead of one of those ridiculous shrinkwrap licenses. PRICE CUT o $39.95 --> $34.95. Reseller prices were cut too. o Upgrade or crossgrade. Send us a complete copy of any previous Yggdrasil release and deduct another $7 from your order. Alternatively, deduct $7 if you send us a complete copy of any competing product *and* tell us where you bought it so that we can make sure that your favorite computer store also carries our products. ABOUT THE COMPANY In December 1992, Yggdrasil published the first free operating system CDROM ever. Since then, Yggdrasil distributions have been the first operating sytems to include as standard the ability to run directly from CDROM, multimedia facilities (editting, mail, sound IO), "fill in the blanks" graphical control panels for system administration, and now, with the Summer 1994 release, reconfigurable hybrid hard disk/CDROM installation, transparent decompression of the CDROM, and numerous automated internet connectivity features, including graphical SLIP and InterNetNews configuration, automated email configuration, and automatic routing of outgoing internet mail through the Yggdrasil bulletin board system. Yggdrasil releases have only about a quarter of the unit volume of Novell UnixWare or NeXTStep, but Yggdrasil is catching up, and has already passed many smaller operating systems. Yggdrasil's growth helps the free software community. To help fund the Free Software Foundation, Yggdrasil resells FSF manuals. Yggdrasil funded improvements in the seagate SCSI driver, and the development of the z5380 scsi driver used in Trantors and adapted by others to the MediaVision ProAudioSpectrum-16. These improvements were returned to Linus Torvald's Linux kernel distribution. Yggdrasil made the deals that insured freeness of the iso9660 filesystem writer and Mitsumi CDROM programming information. $1 of The Linux Bible's price supports the Linux Documentation Project. $5 per copy of Motif purchased from Yggdrasil goes to the development of a free Motif clone. Yggdrasil supports the future of free software, part of which involves creating the world's best operating system. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 408-261-6630, fax 408-261-6631, info@yggdrasil.com. HIGHLIGHTS Linux 1.1 kernel supporting most popular CDROM drives, an easy-to-use installation script, plus a graphical user interface for system configuration, The X Window System: X11R5 Xfree86 2.1 installed plus the pristine X11R6 distribution tar files. Xlib/Xt X windows libraries, the Tcl/Tk programming language and toolkit, the Xview 3.2 OpenLook(tm) toolkit, InterViews C++ toolkit, The Andrew System: version 6.2, including the ez editor for easy creation and reading of documents with imbedded images, equations, spreadsheets, hypertext links, and many other media types. Networking with TCP/IP, NFS and other Internet protocols. Games: asteroids, battle zone, chess, mille bornes, othello, pool, shogi, solitaire, tetris, and connect four. Multimedia: viewers for JPEG, GIF, TIFF and other image formats, MPEG video, sound, Text editors: the elvis vi clone, GNU Emacs with calc mode, and Lucid GNU Emacs (better graphical user interface). Desktop Publishing: TeX and groff typesetting packages with X previewers, and ghostscript, a postscript interpreter for X windows, faxes and a variety of printers, Telecommunications: Z-modem, Taylor UUCP, mail reader, threaded USENET News reader, with support for reading MIME multimedia messages with imbedded images, full motion video and sound. the Postgres 4.1 remote database system, Programming Languages: GNU C++, GNU ANSI C, FORTRAN-to-C and Pascal-to-C translators, and Prolog, Enhanced development environment: GNU debugger, bison, flex, GNU make, the GNU Coverage Tool, Revision Controls System, Concurrent Version System, and Gnats, System V-style shared memory and interprocess communication, File Systems: a filesystem with long file names, symbolic links, and FIFO's, System V, DOS, and iso9660/rockridge CDROM filesystems. Emulators: a BIOS emulator that can run DOS, an experimental ELF loader, and a snapshot of the WABI Windows emulator under development. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 408-261-6630, fax 408-261-6631, info@yggdrasil.com. PRODUCT PHILOSOPHY At each level of user sophistication, Plug-and-Play Linux offers useful capabilities found in few other operating systems, including other Linux distributions.[1] At the top of the sophistication hierarchy, programmers who want to explore or add the occasional feature know that Yggdrasil is the Linux distribution with a fully buildable source tree and with the ability to automatically trace installed files back to their sources. Can you imagine recompiling the whole operating system to use a new compiler optimization or binary format on a distribution without a buildable source tree? Users who want maximum performance will appreciate that the major system components have been recompiled with "-O6" optimization, and the SCSI clustering which reduces the build time on the source tree from 28 to 22 hours (over 20%) on 486DX2-66. Using IDE? Activate the multisector IDE code! New users or will appreciate the our 94 page manual, the largest of any Linux distribution, complete with screen snapshots of the install process, charts on hardware, software options, device names, and tips on hardware troubleshooting, among other things. The manual is also FTPable from yggdrasil.com:/pub/summer94/manual/*. A characteristic that benefits everybody, but is especially important to new users and users who value their time highly, is plug-and-play installation, which is the subject of the next section: "What Makes Plug-and-Play Linux So Easy To Use?" [1] Due credit: This philosophy was inspired by Guy Kawasaki's description of "deep" products in his concise insightful book, "The Macintosh Way." Boycott Apple, but read this book. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 408-261-6630, fax 408-261-6631, info@yggdrasil.com. WHAT MAKES PLUG-AND-PLAY LINUX SO EASY TO USE? Everybody, especially new users, will appreciate the Plug-and-Play operation for which our product is named. Put the media in a computer with supported hardware, turn the computer on, and it's running everything, straight from the CDROM. Unlike other Linux distributions, Plug-and-Play Linux automatically figures out what kind of CDROM is on the system, and uses it. The login screen lists a number of preconfigured user names, including "install", which installs the system, giving paragraphs of explanation about every question that it asks the user. The install script even searches for a modem, and, upon finding it, configures mail and UUCP so that mail sent to an internet address is transparently delivered through a bulletin board system at Yggdrasil. X windows configuration is automated too, prompting the user for configuration information the first time "xinit" is run. The configuration script automatically chooses sensible defaults based on what type of video display and what type of mouse, if any, the kernel detected at start-up. From X windows, a graphical control panel allows simple "fill in the blanks" configuration of networking, SLIP, outgoing UUCP, the printer, NNTP, and many other features that previously required the knowledge of a system administrator to configure. Even day to day operating is simpler with Plug-and-Play Linux. A computer should not ask you for information that it can easily figure out for itself. With Plug-and-Play Linux, when you mount a device without specifying the filesystem type, the system automatically figures out what kind of filesystem is on the device and uses it. Device drivers in Plug-and-Play Linux don't print messages announcing the absence of hardware that you don't have, and they don't interrupt you with information about routine retries (turning on debugging will, of course, make both of these things happen). Version numbers of programs in Fall 1994 Plug-and-Play Linux: adagio-0.4o gdb-4.13 minicom-1.60 tcsh-6.05 agrep-2.04 gdbm-1.7.1 mkdosfs-0.2 term-2.0.4 aic7770-1.0 getty_ps-2.0.7e mkisofs-1.01 texinfo-3.1 andrew-6.3.1 ghostscript-2.6.1 modutils-0.99.14 textutils-1.9 at-2.7 ghostview-1.5 moog-0.2 tiff-3.2beta aumix-0.2 gic-1.1 mpeg-1.2 tiff-3.3beta2 autoconf-1.11 glib-1.9e mule-1.0.01 time-1.6 bash-1.14.2 gmod-1.0 ncompress-4.2.4 tk-3.6p1 bbgopher-1.6 gmp-1.3.2 ncurses-1.8.5 tkinfo-0.6 bc-1.02 gn-2.12 nenscript-1.13++ tools-1.1.29 bin86-0.1 gnats-3.2 NetKit-A-0.05 tput-1.0 bind-4.83l gnuchess-4.0.pl68 NetKit-B-0.04 traceroute-4.4bsd binutils-1.9l.3 gnugo-1.1 nfs-server-2.0 trn-3.2 blt-1.5 gnuplot-3.5 nntpd-15.11a tset-jv-0.9.3 bootlin-4 gnushogi-1.1 oleo-1.6 UIT-3 byacc-1.9 grep-2.0 olvwm-3.3 umsdos_progs-0.3 capture-1.00 groff-1.09 p2c-1.20 usermaint-1.0 cbzone-1.00 gwm-1.7o patch-2.1 util-linux-1.9 cdwrite-1.1 gzip-1.2.4 pbmplus-10dec91 uucp-1.05 checker-0.5 hdparm-1.0 pcnfsd-1.40 uuencode-1.0 checklinks-1.00 hfs-0.3 perl-4.036 vacation-1.00 cpio-2.3 host-1.01 pgbrowse-3.1b vlock-0.8 cvs-1.3 ibcs-940727 pidentd-2.2 wdiff-0.04 dc-0.2 ifs-5 pine-3.89 web2c-6.1 dejagnu-1.2 ImageMagick-3.2 postbrowse-0.1 wine-940815 devX100-12 inn-1.4 postgres-4.2 WorkBone-0.1 devX75-12 InterViews-3.1 procps-0.96 wu-ftpd-2.4 diffutils-2.6 ismodem-1.00 rcs-5.6.0.1 X-11R6 dld-3.2.4 ispell-3.1 readline-2.0 xaster-1.00 dlltools-2.11 itcl-1.3 readlink-1.00 xbmbrowser-2.0 dosemu-0.52 joystick-0.7 realpath-1.0 xboard-3.0.pl9 dosfsck-1.0 jpeg-5-alpha reve-1.4.0 xfm-1.3 e2fsprogs-0.5a kbd-0.87 rshd-5.38 XFree86-3.0 ed-0.1 kterm-5.2.0 rwhod-5.19 xpipeman-1.01 efax-0.6a ld.so-1.4.3 sed-2.05 xpm-3.2f elm-2.4 lemacs-19.10 selection-1.7 xpm-3.4c elvis-1.8pl4 less-177+ sh-utils-1.10 xpool-1.3 emacs-19.25 libc-4.5.26 shar-3.52.3 xrisk-2.14 f2c-1994.April.20 libc_s-940731 smail-3.1.28 xshogi-1.1 file-3.14 libg++-2.5.3 smalltalk-1.1.1 xtank-1.3f fileutils-3.9 lilo-14 sound-2.4 xtetris-2.5.2 find-3.8 linux-1.1.47 sox-7 xvier-1.0 finddev-1.0 m4-1.2 strace-3.0 xview-3.2 flex-2.4.7 mailx-5.5 symlinks-0.3 ytalk-3.0.1 ftape-0.9.10 majordomo-1.62 sysvinit-2.50 zlibc-0.3 fvwm-1.22f make-3.71 tar-1.11.2 zmodem-0.11 gas-2.3 malloc-930716 tcl-7.3 gawk-2.15.5 man_db-2.2 tclX-7.3a gcc-2.5.8 metamail-2.6 tcp_wrapper-6.3 Hardware Compatibility for Fall 1994 Release: System: RAM: 4MB (8MB without swap partition), CPU: 386 or above, Bus: ISA, EISA, VLB, PCI, or other localbus (not microchannel). Disk: IDE, RLL, MFM, ESDI, SCSI with supported SCSI controller. Other disks accessible through DOS callbacks. Configurations range from 10 megabytes to 1 gigabyte of disk. All binaries without sources come to 350 megabytes. Hard disk can be shared with other operating systems on separate partitions. Tape: SCSI tape with supported SCSI controller. Experimental (i.e., unsupported) driver for floppy tape. CDROM: Sony 531, 535, CDU-31A, SoundBlaster-compatible CDROM's Mitsumi, any SCSI CDROM with supported SCSI controller. Other CDROM's accessible through DOS callbacks. SCSI: Adaptec 154x, and 174x in enhanced mode, Bustec 542B, Future Domain 8xx, or 16xx, other controllers based on the TMC-950 chip, Ultrastor, Trantor T128. Experimental: other Trantors, Always in-2000, Adaptec AIC 6260 chip (151x/152x boards), Seagate ST-01/ST02, MediaVision and Creative Labs sound cards, NCR 53c7xx/53c8xx, Adaptec 274x (EISA only). Video: (For X windows.) 640x480 16-colors for any VGA card, 256 colors and resolutions up to 1280x1024 (for sufficiently fast hard-ware) for the following chipsets: S3 801/8055/911/924/928, 8514, Tseng ET3000/ET4000, Oak oti-067/077/087, Western Digital 90c00/90c10/90c30 90c31, Genoa, ATI Mach8/32/64, Trident 8900b/c/cl/cs, Cirrus Logic 5420/5422/5426/62x5, NCR 77c22/77c22e, or Compaq AVGA. Hercules monochrome. Note: Diamond cards are not supported. Sound: Adlib, SoundBlaster, MediaVision, and compatibles. Installable Gravis Ultrasound and MPU-401 drivers are also included. PC speaker is used if sound card is not present. Ethernet: Novell NE1000/NE2000/NE2100, 3Com 3c501, 3c503, 3c509, 3c579, AT1500, AT1700, D-link DE600 pocket adapter and ethernet II, AT-LAN-TEC/RealTek pocket adapter, Artisoft LANtastic AE-2, Alta Combo, Cabletron, Hewlett-Packard 27245, 27247, 27250 and PCLAN, Western Digital 8003 and 8013, other 8390- based ethernet cards. HOW TO GET A FREE COPY Yggdrasil is greatly indebted to the many free software developers whose efforts have made this release possible. As a token of our appreciation, any author of any software or documentation in Plug-and-Play Linux can get a free copy. Operators of free Linux BBS's or Linux FTP sites and other major contributors to the Linux community can also get a free copy. We request that Linux BBS operators and FTP sites carry the Plug-and-Play Linux announcement in the appropriate forums, however this request is optional. HOW TO GET A COPY BY TOMORROW [updated 2 June 1994] Plug-and-Play Linux costs $34.95 and is available directly from Yggdrasil or from your local computer, software or technical book store. If Plug-and-Play Linux is not available from your favorite reseller, help promote Linux by making it your mission to change that. Give your reseller our phone number and ask that they carry Plug-and-Play Linux. If you live in the United States, the $5 shipping and handling charge on direct orders includes Second Day Air delivery. For only another $1 you can get Next Day Air delivery, which means that if your order is received before 3:30pm Pacific Time (6:30pm Eastern Time), you can have Plug-and-Play Linux in your hands the next business morning. This $1 shipping upgrade does not apply to orders that include the Linux Bible. For those orders, the total shipping charge for Next Day Air Delivery is $11 (i.e., $6 extra). To order, call (800) 261-6630 or fax the attached order form to (408) 261-6631. International orders take more than a day of course, and shipping is $10. To place an international order, call (408) 261-6630, fax to the order form to (408) 261-6631, or send email to orders@yggdrasil.com. SUBSCRIPTIONS Plug-and-Play Linux is released quarterly. Update subscriptions are available and start with the release following the release that is current when your subscription order is received. For example, an update subscription ordered today would begin with the Fall 1994 release. Prices for update subscriptions are as follows: 1 year (4 releases) $ 99.95 2 years (8 releases) $179.95 3 years (12 releases) $249.95 THE LINUX BIBLE We are also offering the 2nd Edition of the Linux Bible. The Linux Bible is a compendium of documents produced by The Linux Documentation Project, a group of volunteer Linux developers. For each copy sold of the 1180 page book, the Linux Documentation Project receives a donation of US $1.00. The Linux Documentation Project is not part of Yggdrasil. There are several 'books' included within the covers of the Linux Bible: * Linux Installation and Getting Started by Matt Welsh * Networking Administrator's Guide 1.0 by Olaf Kirsh * Kernal Hacking Guide 0.5 by Michael K. Johnson * System Administrator's Guide (alpha release) by Lars Wirzenius * Users Guide 0.4 by Larry Greenfield The following 'How To' guides are also included: * Bus Mouse Howto * CD-ROM Howto * DOS Emulator Howto * Distribution Howto * Ethernet Howto * Ftape Howto * Hardware Howto * HOWTO-INDEX * Installation Howto * Keystroke Howto * MGR Howto * Japanese Extension * Mail Howto * Net2 Howto * NIS Howto * Usenet News Howto * PCI Howto * Printing Howto * SCSI Howto * Serial Howto * Sound Howto * Term Howto * Tips Howto * UUCP Howto * WINE FAQ * XFree86 Howto Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205 OSF/Motif 1.2.x San Jose, CA 95129-1024 (408) 261-6630, fax(408) 261-6631 info@yggdrasil.com OSF/Motif is an X-Windows programming development toolkit which includes the Motif Windows Manager mwm. Yggdrasil Computing resells OSF/Motif 1.2.4 and donates $5 per copy to the development of a free Motif clone. We are in contact with developers in Protvino, Russia. Our business plan for Motif development is still in its formulative stages, and calls for sending these developers three Linux workstations and paying them salaries of approximately $200 per month for two years. If your organization would like to become involved in funding this work, please contact us and perhaps we can develop a more formal consortium to run and publicize this project. Besides currently being the only distribution that supports the development of a free Motif clone, our distribution is also the only one with a simple no-nonsense license statement instead of those ridiculous ``shrink wrap'' licenses that cast a legal shadow over any type of reverse engineering. Our no nonsense license statement reads as follows: OSF/Motif is proprietary software. Copying of this software is restricted by United States copyright law and international treaties. Therefore, you must treat this software just like a book, with the following single exception. You are authorized to make archival copies of this software for the sole purpose of backing-up the software to protect your investment from loss. For the purposes of this license, ``just like a book'' means, for example, that this software may be used by any number of people and may be freely moved from one computer location to another so long as there is no possibility of it being used at one location while it's being used at another. Just like a book that can't be read by two different people in two different places at the same time, neither can the software be used by two different people in two different places at the same time. The version of Motif that we currently resell is OSF/Motif 1.2.4 from MetroLink. The package consists of four floppy disks and five pages of installation notes in a sealed Mead ``envelok'' folder. We are developing nicer packaging. There is also a locked copy of OSF/Motif on the Yggdrasil Plug-and-Play Linux distribution. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205 San Jose, CA 95129-1024 (408) 261-6630, fax(408) 261-6631 info@yggdrasil.com RESELLERS AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT VENDORS WANTED Yggdrasil Computing is always looking for resellers and technical support vendors. If you would like to carry or offer services for our products, please contact us by any convenient method. TECHNICAL SUPPORT Yggdrasil Computing offers an extensive array of technical support services, detailed below. Service Price Consulting Hotline $2.95/minute 1-900-446-6075 ext. 835 ("TEK") $2.95/minute, USA only 10am-noon,1:45pm-5pm Pacific Fixed Price Hotline* $25 per call Personal Technical Support $100 for 1 year or 1 engineer-hour Business Technical Support [machines+people+contacts] x $60/month Releases On Demand $500 General Technical Services $300/engineer-hour Development Contracts $400/estimated engineer-hour *New experimental service. The Plug-and-Play Linux manual lists vendors offering support services related to the Yggdrasil Linux/GNU/X distribution. If you or your business would like to offer a service related to Plug-and-Play Linux, send a description of your business and contact information to adam@yggdrasil.com. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. DIRECT SALES ORDER FORM 4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205 San Jose, California 95129-1034 United States of America (408) 261-6630, fax (408) 261-6631 toll free (800) 261-6630 SHIP TO: ______________________________ ______________________________ DAYTIME PHONE: _______________ ______________________________ EMAIL: _______________________ ______________________________ Item Quantity Price(US$) Plug-and-Play Linux ____ X $34.95 = $_______ (CDROM, 3.5" boot floppy, 90 page manual) Update Subscriptions starting with following release): 1 year update subscription (4 releases) ____ X $99.95 = $_______ 2 year update subscription (8 releases) ____ X $179.95 = $_______ The Linux Bible (764 pages: kernel hacking, ____ X $39.95 = $_______ networking, installation, over a dozen "How To" guides, and more!) OSF/Motif for Linux ____ X $149.95 = $_______ Prime Time Freeware for unix ____ X $59.95 = $_______ Personal Technical Support ____ X $100.00 = $_______ (1 year/1 engineering hour) SUBTOTAL $_______ ____________________________ Brand of credit card: ________ Card number: _________________________ California residents add 8.25% to help out with sales tax $_______ Shipping & handling (US: $5, elsewhere: $10) $_______ TOTAL $_______ Payment method: __ payment enclosed __ COD (USA only) __ credit card (America Express, Optima, VISA or MasterCard) Your name as it appears on credit card: _______________________________ Brand of credit card: ________ Card number: _________________________ Signature:______________________________________ Expiration: ___ / ___ SHIPPING ADDRESS MUST MATCH CREDIT CARD BILLING ADDRESS Offers subject to change without notice. For direct sales, you can return this software within 30 days for a full refund. Beyond that, THERE IS NO OTHER WARRANTY FOR ANY OF THIS SOFTWARE. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 06:00:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA29782 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 06:00:04 -0700 Received: from Jessica.RatsNest.VaBeach.VA.US (h-tan.richmond.infi.net [204.117.145.141]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA29765 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 05:59:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199508281259.FAA29765@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Pavlov's Cat" Organization: Organized? Me? Hah! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:59:53 -240 Subject: Re: ARP'ing [Summary of responses] Reply-to: SimsS@Infi.Net CC: apuzzo@alumni.cs.colorado.edu, davep@extendsys.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On the subject of discovering IP addresses on a local network segment, I said: : > I figured that I could cobble up a little hack that works kind of like the : > following nugget of meta-code: [my pseudo-arp code snipped] to which Tony Apuzzo said: : I just do the following: : : # ping 9.99.2.255 : PING 9.99.2.255 (9.99.2.255): 56 data bytes : 64 bytes from 9.99.2.37: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=11 ms : 64 bytes from 9.99.2.83: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=27 ms (DUP!) [snip] : This [...] should work on any network segment that passes broadcast packets. Tony's right -- this does perform an interface discovery "sweep" on the local segment. But the *bad* news is that this is how my semi-net-literate (ab)users are "discovering" available IP addresses. This issue is not that a sysadmin can't find addresses in use, but rather that a sysadmin can't discover the IP addresses in use that have "legally" been assigned to a particular workstation (i.e.: by MAC hardware address). Rod Grimes followed up with a post that describes an approach very similar to Tony's which immediately does an "arp -a" to dump the arp cache. I think that this has merit as well, but the problem remains that many (non-BSD) workstations don't appear to respond to a broadcast ping. (NT is a notable example.) Regarding DHCP Services & Servers, David Poole offered: : FTP Software has a WinSock DHCP server for ~$100. You do have to be : running their PC/TCP OnNet WinSock stack for it to work, though. We've : done some testing with it and found it mildly flakey but it works. : : There's also the WIDE DHCP server & client implementation. It's source : for a DHCP server and client. I got the client to compile, but ran into : some problems with the server. : : (From the DHCP FAQ) : 950630 WIDE Project: : Akihiro Tominaga (tomy@sfc.wide.ad.jp) : WIDE Project : Keio Univ. : Japan : ftp://sh.wide.ad.jp/WIDE/free-ware/dhcp/dhcp-1.2.1.tar.gz : Check Archie for dhcp-1.2.1 because lots of sites distribute it. While I appreciate the pointer to the DHCP server, the problem isn't, again, a problem in assigning addresses per-se, but rather an approach for monitoring the IP addresses that have been ifconfig'ed (or equivalent) on workstations attached to the segment. Let me be anally pedantic and re-iterate the problem as I see it.... Let's assume that I have set up a DHCP server and am leasing addresses 192.168.254.101 to 192.168.254.200. (100 addresses in the DHCP pool.) These addresses aren't "in use", but they're out there on the server reserved for DHCP clients to lease upon request. This means that bona-fide DHCP clients have a pretty good chance of leasing a valid IP for the duration of their connection to the segment. (This *works* with NT, but the management of the server is AWFUL. I'm going to look at a FreeBSD-based solution RSN. I'll keep you posted...) The problem occurs when J. Random Hacker configures his new FreeBSD box to add it to the net. He "knows" that the net address is "192.168.254.something" so he says to himself, "OK, it's 1:30 in the morning, I guess I'll ifconfig my net adapter as "192.168.254.130." Boots up and goes. A few minutes (or hours) later the DHCP server offers a "new" DHCP client the same address (192.168.254.130) because it's the first free entry in it's dynamic pool. (N.B.: DHCP servers don't have a way to monitor addresses which are "in use" but weren't asssigned by the DHCP server.) The client accepts the offered address and (at least with WinDoze clients) attempts to ARP the wire for "192.168.254.130" since it doesn't explicitly "trust" the server. Whoops! The client "discovers" that the address is already in use! Result: The client, having done everything "by the book" and playing by the rules is denied IP services and access to the net because some renegade user broke the rules and hard-coded a conflicting address. I recognize that this is a weakness of the DHCP spec and RFC's. The question I'm asking is, esentially, what management tools can I use under FreeBSD to monitor (and attempt to enforce some level of sanity in) an environment where the Linux and WinDoze users can go to "Books 'n More" and pick up a copy of "The Compleat Idjit's Guide to Netwerking" and now they're experts. My search for a solution continues..... Thanks to all for the replies thus far... -- ...sjs... Steve Sims (SJS7) SimsS@Infi.Net Systems Engineer, IPC Technologies, Inc. Virginia Beach, VA "Everyone wants to save the Earth; Nobody wants to help Mom do the dishes." ...P.J. O'Roarke From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 06:01:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA29964 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 06:01:56 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA29954 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 06:01:53 -0700 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA03571 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 06:01:51 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 06:01:51 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199508281301.GAA03571@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: This is an interesting URL.. Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk http://www.polaris.net/ugu/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 07:24:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA04014 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 07:24:19 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA03933 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 07:23:19 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA15400; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:22:08 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA13407; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:22:08 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA22021; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:59:32 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508281359.PAA22021@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Argh. I think we need to do a quick reality-check on our docs.. To: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:59:30 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2872.809605718@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 28, 95 03:28:38 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 528 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > 2. Look at /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/${LANG}/* and see if you > can help John create a language-specific section for whichever > language it is you're most interested in. This is not only helpful I volunteer for German again, but due to the job change, i'm afraid i won't be able to spend that much time into the subject as previously. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 07:42:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA05417 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 07:42:52 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA05392 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 07:42:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199508281442.HAA05392@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Argh. I think we need to do a quick reality-check on our docs.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Aug 95 04:47:31 PDT." <3376.809610451@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 07:42:47 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Not me, I don't know squat about 3Com products (other than there is >> a lot of that junk out there :-)). > >Argh! Well, it was *somebody* that knew all of this. Care to step >forward with your contribution for the hardware section of the >Handbook? Please?? :-) People are having problems with the 3COM cards >and they need their own section. > > Jordan Talk to Serge Babkin. I belive we still have an outstanding patch from him for this driver as well. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 07:44:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA05653 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 07:44:53 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA05640 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 07:44:47 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA13236 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:45:34 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199508281445.KAA13236@haven.ios.com> Subject: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:45:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2107 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, After having a lot of problems with different motherboards under FreeBSD I've switched to the "editor's choice" - ASUS P54TP4 mb.,which was recommended here by Jordan :) Few problems went away ( like random reboots and stuff), but oneremains consistent: the freaking system loks each and every day and I think this is because of .... something related to HD activity/driver/adapter/whatever. The system is P90,Adaptec 2940 PCI _SCSI adapter, SMC EtherPower. The symptoms: system locks at random times w/o any messages at the console/ log files. Locks means the system becomes unreachable neither from the local net nor from the console After I hit "reboot" switch, system reboots up to the fsck level and it starts complaining that it can't read partition information off the second HDD ( Seagate Barracuda 4 Gb) (!). If one hits "reboot" again and goes to the Adaptec BIOS and runs disk utilities --> media check from there - the BIOS (!) complains that it can not talk to the second HD. The problem goes away _only after powercycling the whole PC. I never saw the stuff like this before ... any suggestions ? Any bugs in Adaptec BIOSes ? Release numbers ? I've changed the Adaptecs - just in case... didn't help. Will try to do the same with Seagate Barracuda ... never had the problem with 'em before though Everything is fine till you don;t have too much activity going on system. Some of the servers I have here run for months w./o problems - but they do DNS/WWW/INN stuff. As soon as you put 3000- 4000 users on the system - that when the shit begins. Till now _the most stable version is SNAP back from Feb 95. It is up for 24 days, runs 4000 account, 50-70 users online. Bad things about it : no support for 2940,SMC EtherPower and QUOTAs don't work. I don't want to get rid of this perfect test place for FreeBSD but I can not stand by PC and wait to reboot it all the time. Looks to me that no1 runs the FreeBSD in such complex env. so I'd like to be able to continue this, but there is always a limit :( Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 08:09:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA07016 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:09:25 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA07007 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:09:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199508281509.IAA07007@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rashid Karimov." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Aug 95 10:45:34 EDT." <199508281445.KAA13236@haven.ios.com> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:09:22 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi there folx, > > After having a lot of problems with different > motherboards under FreeBSD I've switched to the > "editor's choice" - ASUS P54TP4 mb.,which was > recommended here by Jordan :) > Few problems went away ( like random reboots and > stuff), but oneremains consistent: > > the freaking system loks each and every day and > I think this is because of .... something related > to HD activity/driver/adapter/whatever. > > The system is P90,Adaptec 2940 PCI _SCSI adapter, > SMC EtherPower. > > > The symptoms: > > system locks at random times w/o any messages at the console/ > log files. Locks means the system becomes unreachable neither > from the local net nor from the console > After I hit "reboot" switch, system reboots up to the fsck > level and it starts complaining that it can't read partition > information off the second HDD ( Seagate Barracuda 4 Gb) (!). > > If one hits "reboot" again and goes to the Adaptec BIOS and runs > disk utilities --> media check from there - the BIOS (!) complains > that it can not talk to the second HD. It sounds like your Barracuda is overheating. > Rashid > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 08:15:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA07462 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:15:14 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA07456 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:15:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA11558; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:14:46 -0700 To: "Rashid Karimov." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:45:34 EDT." <199508281445.KAA13236@haven.ios.com> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:14:46 -0700 Message-ID: <11556.809622886@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > If one hits "reboot" again and goes to the Adaptec BIOS and runs > disk utilities --> media check from there - the BIOS (!) complains > that it can not talk to the second HD. Your barracuda has probably dropped off-line. How hot is it in your case, anyway? :-) These drives get VERY WARM during operation and need good ventilation to be happy! On hot days in badly designed cases, they tend to go on vacation pretty predictably. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 08:19:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA07823 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:19:17 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA07809 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:19:09 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id LAA03792; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:10:13 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:10:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: ARP'ing [Summary of responses] To: SimsS@Infi.Net cc: hackers@freebsd.org, apuzzo@alumni.cs.colorado.edu, davep@extendsys.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com In-Reply-To: <199508281259.FAA29765@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk there may not be a managment tool for this at present. i dont know squat about DHCP, but (what a fool i am) set up a box that is aliased to all unused ip addresses when DHCP assigns an address, delete that alias when the address comes free again, reinstate the alias (some code needs to be written for the ipc, of course) this will prevent ip address theft and allow DHCP to work > The problem occurs when J. Random Hacker configures his new FreeBSD box to > add it to the net. He "knows" that the net address is > "192.168.254.something" so he says to himself, "OK, it's 1:30 in the morning, > I guess I'll ifconfig my net adapter as "192.168.254.130." Boots up and goes. > > A few minutes (or hours) later the DHCP server offers a "new" DHCP client the > same address (192.168.254.130) because it's the first free entry in it's > dynamic pool. (N.B.: DHCP servers don't have a way to monitor addresses > which are "in use" but weren't asssigned by the DHCP server.) The client > accepts the offered address and (at least with WinDoze clients) attempts to > ARP the wire for "192.168.254.130" since it doesn't explicitly "trust" the server. > Whoops! The client "discovers" that the address is already in use! Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 08:35:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA08648 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:35:52 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA08634 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:35:48 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA26352; Mon, 28 Aug 95 15:35:41 GMT Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA27283; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:35:39 -0600 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:35:39 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9508281535.AA27283@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org Cc: rashid@haven.ios.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281509.IAA07007@freefall.FreeBSD.org> (gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org) Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Justin" == Justin T Gibbs writes: >> system locks at random times w/o any messages at the console/ >> log files. Justin> It sounds like your Barracuda is overheating. How do you know this? I ask because I feel I got hit by a similar problem with a Wangtek SCSI DAT drive. After a cool-down period, I can do writes to the drive for about 10 minutes. Then the system locks up. That 10 minutes time period gets shorter and shorter as the system stays on. If I wrap the system in a nice comfy blanket with a few plushy animals (teddy bears work best), writes work for less than 10 seconds. By rearranging the various internal components so the DAT drive isn't near anything, it works fine. My question: what is it about the heat that causes the OS to crash? Or is it not the OS, but the system as a whole? And what is it about SCSI tape writes? Other SCSI activity works fine. Confused. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA Some people think George is weird, because he has sideburns behind his ears. I think George is weird, because he has false teeth. With braces on them. George is a radio announcer, and when he walks under a bridge... You can't hear him talk. -- Steven Wright From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 08:35:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA08650 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:35:52 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA08640 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:35:50 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA23316; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:06:36 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508281536.BAA23316@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:06:36 +0930 (CST) Cc: rashid@haven.ios.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <11556.809622886@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 28, 95 08:14:46 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1294 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > Your barracuda has probably dropped off-line. How hot is it in your > case, anyway? :-) These drives get VERY WARM during operation and need > good ventilation to be happy! On hot days in badly designed cases, > they tend to go on vacation pretty predictably. Just on the 'cuda thread; I had opportunity to eyeball a pile of -4's tonight. Some observations for fans of big and fast disks, and particularly those that have met these drives before : - They're quiet. (Yes, sports fans, quiet) - They don't get very hot. (One busy unit packed in a small, convection-cooled case with its power supply was finger-touch warm - all of the drives had been running for over a week) I think that Seagate may be moving in the right direction with these puppies. (Mind you, they're as picky as all get-out about SCSI cabling and termination 8( ) > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 08:43:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA09266 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:43:38 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA09248 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:43:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199508281543.IAA09248@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) cc: rashid@haven.ios.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Aug 95 09:35:39 MDT." <9508281535.AA27283@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:43:32 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>>> "Justin" == Justin T Gibbs writes: > > >> system locks at random times w/o any messages at the console/ > >> log files. > > Justin> It sounds like your Barracuda is overheating. > >How do you know this? It wasn't the lock up symptom at all that led me to this conclusion, but eveything else looked like the drive just decided to turn itself off because it was too hot. >I ask because I feel I got hit by a similar problem with a Wangtek >SCSI DAT drive. After a cool-down period, I can do writes to the >drive for about 10 minutes. Then the system locks up. That 10 >minutes time period gets shorter and shorter as the system stays on. >If I wrap the system in a nice comfy blanket with a few plushy animals >(teddy bears work best), writes work for less than 10 seconds. > >By rearranging the various internal components so the DAT drive isn't >near anything, it works fine. > >My question: what is it about the heat that causes the OS to crash? >Or is it not the OS, but the system as a whole? And what is it about >SCSI tape writes? Other SCSI activity works fine. > >Confused. As I've said in the past, the error handling in our SCSI system needs some serious work. I don't know what it is exactly that makes the system fall over if a target falls off the bus, but I'm sure it can be traced back into the higher level SCSI system. >-- >Sean Kelly >NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA > >Some people think George is weird, because he has sideburns behind his >ears. I think George is weird, because he has false teeth. With >braces on them. George is a radio announcer, and when he walks under >a bridge... You can't hear him talk. -- Steven Wright -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 08:58:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA10285 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:58:35 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA10273 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 08:58:30 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA23359; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:22:56 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508281552.BAA23359@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:22:55 +0930 (CST) Cc: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, rashid@haven.ios.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281543.IAA09248@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Aug 28, 95 08:43:32 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 938 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >My question: what is it about the heat that causes the OS to crash? > >Or is it not the OS, but the system as a whole? And what is it about > >SCSI tape writes? Other SCSI activity works fine. > > > >Confused. Heat affects electronic components; as they get hotter, their performance changes, and circuits stop working. Regardless of operating system, the drive would stop writing successfully. As Justin observed, FreeBSD _shouldn't_ barf the moment something on the SCSI bus hiccups, but testing that sort of thing is difficult... > >Sean Kelly -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 09:07:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA11220 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:07:13 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA11201 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:07:06 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA26850; Mon, 28 Aug 95 16:06:14 GMT Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA27354; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:06:11 -0600 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:06:11 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9508281606.AA27354@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Cc: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, rashid@haven.ios.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281552.BAA23359@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> (message from Michael Smith on Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:22:55 +0930 (CST)) Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Smith writes: Michael> As Justin observed, FreeBSD _shouldn't_ barf the moment Michael> something on the SCSI bus hiccups, And that answers my question. Michael> but testing that sort of thing is difficult... I'll let you borrow my blanket ... :-) -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA Too bad there's not such a thing as a golden skunk, because you'd probably be proud to be sprayed by one. -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 09:10:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAB11491 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:10:47 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA11483 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:10:44 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA02136; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:11:15 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:11:15 -0400 Message-Id: <199508281611.MAA02136@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Adrian Corston From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: alias ( secondary IP ) for Ethernet Ifaces in FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >dennis types: >>>>> AHA! It seems that it works ok when I run routed, but not with gated..I'm >>>>> running gated with rip only on this machine. >>>>> >>>>> If I do the alias when running gated I get the wrong entry in my routing >>>>> table (a link# entry as the gateway). This implies that gated is adding the >>>>> entry when it does its "interface scan" and not getting the information that >>>>> it expects, or that it doesn't support aliasing. >>>>> >>>>> Is anyone using alias addressing in Freebsd and gated successfully? >>>> >>>>I've cc'd this to Adrian Corston - Hi Adrian 8) - who I believe has this >>>>up and happening in a big way. >>>> >>>>Adrian - if you've got a minute to spare, can you offer Dennis a canned >>>>explanation of adding an alias to an interface outside its netmask and >>>>then stopping gated from screwing up the routes? >> >> >>>Wave a dead chicken. >>> >>>When the machine I have doing this reboots, I just fiddle by hand adding >>>aliases and restarting gated and mumbling magic incarnations until it >>>looks about right, by which time I have to go do the other ten thousand >>>things on my desk. >>> >>>I mailed off about gated's habit of breaking things using the bug >>>reporting command in FreeBSD, and to date the sum total of my responses >>>has been three people telling me to fix my timezone. I'm not real >>>impressed. >>> >>>We will probably find another OS to do this on sometime soon. >> >>Its really not FreeBSD's problem. Its really gateD. You shouldn't have to >>conform your operating system to an application. Gated needs to be more >>generic.I've copied the gated list....maybe someone over there has an answer. > >Ah - this is good to know. I am pro-FreeBSD and I'd love to keep using >it, but the lack of response on my support issue was a little depressing. > >Thankyou for your relevant reply! > Well, they say you get what you pay for....except I paid for BSD/OS and I get no response from them either....... Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 09:22:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA12145 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:22:59 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA12137 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:22:53 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA11831; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:22:32 -0700 To: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) cc: Adrian Corston , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: alias ( secondary IP ) for Ethernet Ifaces in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:11:15 EDT." <199508281611.MAA02136@mail.htp.com> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:22:31 -0700 Message-ID: <11829.809626951@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Well, they say you get what you pay for....except I paid for BSD/OS and I > get no response from them either....... I am seriously confused. Did the rest of us here all come in somewhere in the middle of a long conversation, or what? Needless to say, I'm totally unable to make heads-or-tails of the attribution nesting in the snippet of included text (it went 5 levels deep in the middle!). What's the summary here? Is someone upset about a gated bug, a FreeBSD bug or a little of both? Background details please! Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 09:48:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA13558 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:48:50 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA13548 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:48:40 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA02468; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:47:58 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:47:58 -0400 Message-Id: <199508281647.MAA02468@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: alias ( secondary IP ) for Ethernet Ifaces in FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Well, they say you get what you pay for....except I paid for BSD/OS and I >> get no response from them either....... > >I am seriously confused. Did the rest of us here all come in >somewhere in the middle of a long conversation, or what? Needless to >say, I'm totally unable to make heads-or-tails of the attribution >nesting in the snippet of included text (it went 5 levels deep in the >middle!). > >What's the summary here? Is someone upset about a gated bug, a >FreeBSD bug or a little of both? Background details please! Thanks! > Sorry, but the messages were getting really long. A Summary: IP aliasing doesn't seem to work when gated is running. Mr Corston complained that he had sent a bug report to the FreeBSD people and got no response and wasn't happy. I told him that I think that the problem has more to do with gateD than FreeBSD, and that it should not be the responsibility of an O/S to conform to an Application. I've talked to some of the gateD-people but they are pretty adamant about their design. I made some suggestions about how they should make gateD more generic because many of the supported UNIX platforms are becoming more diverse internally and it will become more and more difficult to keep everything working as time goes on. Complex interfaces (frame relay, X.25, atm, SMDS, etc) do not work with gated unless they are implemented in a particular way, and frankly the way that they must be implemented would make for a very poor product. Needless to say I received a rather nasty scolding for my efforts. I also have a serious problem with an application that dictates how a kernel subsystem has to be implemented....theres something wrong with the picture in general. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 10:18:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA14808 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:18:02 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA14800 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:17:57 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id NAA26268; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:22:11 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:22:11 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199508281722.NAA26268@healer.com> To: dennis@et.htp.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: alias ( secondary IP ) for Ethernet Ifaces in FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I also have a serious problem with an application that dictates how a kernel > subsystem has to be implemented....theres something wrong with the picture > in general. > > Dennis I'd agreee, except for packages that need kernel support for what they're doing (I'm neck deep in a screend rewrite :-) I haven't looked at the source for gated, so don't know if it falls into this category. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 10:19:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA15028 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:19:54 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA14881 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:18:34 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01839; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:17:44 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508281717.KAA01839@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rashid@haven.ios.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281509.IAA07007@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Aug 28, 95 08:09:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2502 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Hi there folx, > > > > After having a lot of problems with different > > motherboards under FreeBSD I've switched to the > > "editor's choice" - ASUS P54TP4 mb.,which was > > recommended here by Jordan :) > > Few problems went away ( like random reboots and > > stuff), but oneremains consistent: > > > > the freaking system loks each and every day and > > I think this is because of .... something related > > to HD activity/driver/adapter/whatever. > > > > The system is P90,Adaptec 2940 PCI _SCSI adapter, > > SMC EtherPower. > > > > > > The symptoms: > > > > system locks at random times w/o any messages at the console/ > > log files. Locks means the system becomes unreachable neither > > from the local net nor from the console > > After I hit "reboot" switch, system reboots up to the fsck > > level and it starts complaining that it can't read partition > > information off the second HDD ( Seagate Barracuda 4 Gb) (!). > > > > If one hits "reboot" again and goes to the Adaptec BIOS and runs > > disk utilities --> media check from there - the BIOS (!) complains > > that it can not talk to the second HD. > > It sounds like your Barracuda is overheating. I agree with that assement of the facts given here. But would like a few ``details'' filled in. a) When the lock up occurs are any drive select lights on solid? b) Do you have an LED hooked to the controller and what state is it when the lock occurs? c) Have you any process that core on occasion, or system panics of any form? [Looking for memory related problems which usually manifest themselves as random signall 11's if they occur in user land, and kernel panics if they occur in the kernel] d) And my most famous question I always ask, have your _triple_ checked that your scsi bus is properly terminated and built using high quality double shielded scsi-ii rated cables? [Applies to external cables, internal cables should be 110 Ohm 26AWG flat ribon cable.] Also make sure you are using ACTIVE termination, at fast scsi-II speeds anything less is dangerous. e) Back to the Barracuda and heat problems, what is the case temperature of the drives while operating (give them 4 hours to stabalize under your worse load before taking a measurement). Also make sure not to perturb the normal conditions for those 4 hours. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 10:26:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA15417 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:26:33 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15399 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:26:23 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01867; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:25:23 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508281725.KAA01867@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, rashid@haven.ios.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281536.BAA23316@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Aug 29, 95 01:06:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1514 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > Your barracuda has probably dropped off-line. How hot is it in your > > case, anyway? :-) These drives get VERY WARM during operation and need > > good ventilation to be happy! On hot days in badly designed cases, > > they tend to go on vacation pretty predictably. > > Just on the 'cuda thread; I had opportunity to eyeball a pile of -4's > tonight. Some observations for fans of big and fast disks, and > particularly those that have met these drives before : By -4's do you mean ``Hawk-4'' series drives? As far as I can tell the -4 in Barracuda-4 and Hawk-4 just means it is a 4G drive. > - They're quiet. (Yes, sports fans, quiet) > - They don't get very hot. (One busy unit packed in a small, > convection-cooled case with its power supply was finger-touch > warm - all of the drives had been running for over a week) That was _not_ a Barracuda drive, unless seagate did some major changes and didn't change the model name/number. Please give exact details as to seagate model number. I suspect you where looking at a Hawk drive (ST15230N), which do match the above description. > I think that Seagate may be moving in the right direction with these > puppies. (Mind you, they're as picky as all get-out about SCSI cabling > and termination 8( ) All fast scsi-ii drives are. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 11:07:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA17544 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:07:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA17534 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:07:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199508281807.LAA17534@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: 16, 32, and 64bit types? Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:07:01 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've just finished up a port of the rkinit suite for importing into our eBones tree. One last thing I'd like to do is convert all of the "u_long"s in the code that are used in the rkinit protocol to an u_int type that will always be 32bits. NetBSD has u_int32 and friends for this type of task. Do we have anything similar? If not, I think we should. What would it take to bring in the extra types? __ Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 11:20:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA18421 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:20:25 -0700 Received: from yarrina.connect.com.au (yarrina.connect.com.au [192.189.54.17]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18415 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:20:24 -0700 Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.apana.org.au [192.188.107.90]) by yarrina.connect.com.au with ESMTP id EAA06830 (8.6.12/IDA-1.6 for ); Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:20:14 +1000 Received: (proff@localhost) by suburbia.net (8.6.12/Proff-950810) id EAA21627 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:20:00 +1000 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:20:00 +1000 From: Julian Assange Message-Id: <199508281820.EAA21627@suburbia.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: joining Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'd like to add my support to the project. I can cut code. where do I sign? Cheers, Julian Assange. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 11:28:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA18822 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:28:38 -0700 Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18805 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:28:29 -0700 Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id UAA21247; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:24:49 +0200 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199508281824.UAA21247@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: IPFW and SCREEND To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:24:48 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: fenner@parc.xerox.com, phk@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <679.809343432@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Aug 25, 95 02:37:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 388 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm pretty sure that you wont get bit by denying any fragments starting > < 256 bytes. > Actually it turns out to be much simpler...Paul Traina forwarded something about this. Just filter anything that is TCP and has an ip_off == 1. The offset is to be shifted 3 bits. So the *only* frag that can overwrite the TCP_FLAGS (like SYN and ACK) is one with ip_off equal to one. -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 11:50:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA19924 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:50:49 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA19916 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:50:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA13406; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:50:33 -0700 To: Julian Assange cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: joining In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:20:00 +1000." <199508281820.EAA21627@suburbia.net> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:50:33 -0700 Message-ID: <13404.809635833@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'd like to add my support to the project. I can cut code. where do I sign? Aha! You already did. Didn't you read the note on -hackers saying "posting to this group constitutes an acceptance of the terms" :-) What sorts of things do you WANT to do? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 11:53:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA20107 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:53:45 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA20101 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:53:42 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA10488; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:50:56 +1000 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:50:56 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508281850.EAA10488@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >that will always be 32bits. NetBSD has u_int32 and >friends for this type of task. Do we have anything >similar? If not, I think we should. What would it >take to bring in the extra types? We have u_int32_t etc. in (actually in . u_int32 would pollute the namespace. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 11:58:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA20358 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:58:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA20343 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:58:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199508281858.LAA20343@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 95 04:50:56 +1000." <199508281850.EAA10488@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:58:11 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>that will always be 32bits. NetBSD has u_int32 and >>friends for this type of task. Do we have anything >>similar? If not, I think we should. What would it >>take to bring in the extra types? > >We have u_int32_t etc. in (actually in >. u_int32 would pollute the namespace. > >Bruce Yes, I meant u_int32_t. Any reason sys/types.h doesn't use them to express the other types? This is how it is done in NetBSD. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 12:11:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA20976 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:11:03 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA20967 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:10:53 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA11521; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:10:19 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199508281910.PAA11521@haven.ios.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Cc: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281717.KAA01839@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 28, 95 10:17:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3691 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > After having a lot of problems with different > > > motherboards under FreeBSD I've switched to the > > > "editor's choice" - ASUS P54TP4 mb.,which was > > > recommended here by Jordan :) > > > Few problems went away ( like random reboots and > > > stuff), but oneremains consistent: > > > > > > the freaking system loks each and every day and > > > I think this is because of .... something related > > > to HD activity/driver/adapter/whatever. > > > > > > The system is P90,Adaptec 2940 PCI _SCSI adapter, > > > SMC EtherPower. > > > > > > > > > The symptoms: > > > > > > system locks at random times w/o any messages at the console/ > > > log files. Locks means the system becomes unreachable neither > > > from the local net nor from the console > > > After I hit "reboot" switch, system reboots up to the fsck > > > level and it starts complaining that it can't read partition > > > information off the second HDD ( Seagate Barracuda 4 Gb) (!). > > > > > > If one hits "reboot" again and goes to the Adaptec BIOS and runs > > > disk utilities --> media check from there - the BIOS (!) complains > > > that it can not talk to the second HD. > > > > It sounds like your Barracuda is overheating. > > I agree with that assement of the facts given here. But would like a > few ``details'' filled in. > > a) When the lock up occurs are any drive select lights on solid? > > b) Do you have an LED hooked to the controller and what state is it when > the lock occurs? The LED on the adapter ( ADAPTEC ) is OFF. No activity at all - at least for the time I'd been watching it. > > c) Have you any process that core on occasion, or system panics of any > form? [Looking for memory related problems which usually manifest > themselves as random signall 11's if they occur in user land, and > kernel panics if they occur in the kernel] Not with this particualr system. I do see like 5-10 messages every 8-10 hours about processes dying with SIG 3 ( weird ). They are randon though and this doesn't happen right before the system locks up > > d) And my most famous question I always ask, have your _triple_ checked > that your scsi bus is properly terminated and built using high quality > double shielded scsi-ii rated cables? [Applies to external cables, > internal cables should be 110 Ohm 26AWG flat ribon cable.] Also make > sure you are using ACTIVE termination, at fast scsi-II speeds anything > less is dangerous. Well , the last HD is terminated, the first one is not. The terminated one gets the power from the HD. Should I change it to "from the SCSI cable" ? The HDs are internal ones , so I use flat ribbon cable. Don't have a brand on them though ... think they came with adapters. > > e) Back to the Barracuda and heat problems, what is the case temperature > of the drives while operating (give them 4 hours to stabalize under > your worse load before taking a measurement). Also make sure not > to perturb the normal conditions for those 4 hours. Its quite possible that this is a temperature problem, since I've changed the motherboards on Friday and left the PC in not-well-conditioned room. Other thing happened since the time of my last message: The system locked up in the weird way - the console driver was working , I could switch the virt. consoles, when I telnetted from the net - I saw the message "connected', but otherwise the system was dead. Don't know if it is related to the same heat problem ,... Rashid > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 12:17:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA21210 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:17:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA21200 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:17:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199508281917.MAA21200@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rashid Karimov." cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Aug 95 15:10:19 EDT." <199508281910.PAA11521@haven.ios.com> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:17:48 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> e) Back to the Barracuda and heat problems, what is the case temperature >> of the drives while operating (give them 4 hours to stabalize under >> your worse load before taking a measurement). Also make sure not >> to perturb the normal conditions for those 4 hours. > > Its quite possible that this is a temperature problem, > since I've changed the motherboards on Friday and left the > PC in not-well-conditioned room. > > Other thing happened since the time of my last message: > > The system locked up in the weird way - the console > driver was working , I could switch the virt. consoles, > when I telnetted from the net - I saw the message "connected', > but otherwise the system was dead. Don't know if it is > related to the same heat problem ,... This means that the system could not access the disk (ie couldn't page in login). It is the exact same problem. > Rashid > >> >> -- >> Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >> Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD >> > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 12:23:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA21436 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:23:48 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA21430 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:23:47 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA14698; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:22:24 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508281922.MAA14698@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: rashid@haven.ios.com (Rashid Karimov.) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281910.PAA11521@haven.ios.com> from "Rashid Karimov." at Aug 28, 95 03:10:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 415 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > if you haven't already done so, make sure your kernel has DDB in it. and make sure it has the keyboard hotkey enabled (see LINT config for this) when it hangs, hit the hotkey ctl-alt-esc and poke around a bit.. e.g. get a statcktrace, do a ps etc. > > > > the freaking system loks each and every day and > > > > I think this is because of .... something related > > > > to HD activity/driver/adapter/whatever. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 12:57:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA22818 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:57:08 -0700 Received: from gw.cronyx.msk.su (gw.cronyx.srcc.msu.su [158.250.244.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA22778 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:55:23 -0700 Received: by gw.cronyx.msk.su id XAA09419; (8.6.11/vak/1.9) Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:50:51 +0400 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:50:51 +0400 From: vak@gw.cronyx.msk.su (Serge V.Vakulenko) Message-Id: <199508281950.XAA09419@gw.cronyx.msk.su> To: alain@Wit401402.student.utwente.nl, duff@rtd.com, hackers@freebsd.org, jdl@chrome.onramp.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, lmfmtm@ericsson.fi, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, paul@netcraft.co.uk, purna@cs.shizuoka.ac.jp, schwarz@alpharel.com, simonm@dcs.gla.ac.uk, sos@freebsd.org, swallace@eng.uci.edu Subject: Version 1.3 of ATAPI CD-ROM driver Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, This is the version 1.3 of ATAPI CD-ROM driver. Comparing with the version 1.1, committed to FreeBSD-currect, it has three bugs fixed: 1) The `controller not ready' message at startup and later. It was caused by staled media change bit. 2) Incorrect shuffling of model string for some drives (NEC, Mitsumi). 3) Handling of drives which report itself as been of direct-access type, instead of CD-ROM type. There is one known bug which is not fixed yet -- probing in absense of IDE disks. A work-around exists though (thanks Steve!). If you have no IDE disks attached, then remove them from the kernel config file to make the CD-ROM attach correctly. Unfortunately, there is no way to disable them from the kernel interactive config mode. For all who has problems with the drive probing: please, set "#define DEBUG" at the beginning of atapi.c, recompile and reinstall the kernel, reboot and then send me the output of dmesg. I will try to solve it. Regards, Serge P.S. 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ME<.!2J9R1297YG$%957=>QB7!8/(EY^Y`TE0C/-+@+8F&AZG.S?2J?1G@R34 MI_H7O-H8A>/YC&]#B2B]1RN'[CZ.+U"PGIDK]&K0`$:W`>C1"P\,4%]+_0VP@DK%CGGI;T_NMX,&\UK+?EV'*\8W0;ZRJEJF$O,VM85XE<&3Y[\AS$1LTR%-F@Q M/D4BV+BY]F<;%'@%[XO@?>["O:^LK.,'E4V6=X(7]VUQ?7C_8+SLLO?A99>U MV`ZI3WGHEG2&)\K$+LLMJQO@LGI),F>CXKRN-NR`:\S3#7&XH=CR&M$F,TZ] MQ(X&#O(+*A);[(HWM5-;AVO+JX4A)6YS:W%4MS33?LHL-^%6'\A^SX\;/P)I M9_@N&OAWD8R$X:I"SDO#9A]V/H"F'K[*R('5)!PUVT&PO'E*6(A4-*KZWM M6O9BFO22LG;@&>QILZH6"UM78TRY0*M&78;!+Z9V;I'RVM]/55C?P&@Y_<`2I<_6%R>SG">D5'L M_BVQ?:-:55,K:>F>.K1O>S`0F*4`AAZ_Y4LJ..EXFV50QX/!S'N[H;GTOCET MV`6J20'`A4!\X)KBYEV"-\]<8C>/]U(EK3+9U9.[;C(KYMZU\DVS\]U95L;% M6$6X0%+K`Q[;K.8!&@G+/Q012&)?9A0DE@CGSW,D07BH!]=V!?7GZ5(/4FL\ M3@3TYR+]6:UQ8Q8L?[YA`O+AII?T-5<(A=$M/X?L9 M6.(G2AN66;1/D_9S%F[>4K4!>#D`O`4`JGD`JCD`J@L`;.4!V,H!X'""^W<] M(;SCYF%'-K];+]?KXR&K5JJE5VTY9]VF>=-YHW/X;5;8\_$N+(<_T8L%,K,) MX3,K\5!189A;YZ?W5LNI^DG5+;#U-@_/D[/3L_KB]I)8Q[\FU$@-Y;_)O?%I M=BXZS7;K0>V4[@=V\KJ3O@NS02V^>6IVCILOTYV?<2#>SGTW0`0L<(]+ZH7/H2>&R:_B!$: MTGH_HVG6_C[W*?:@S9Q+DU6C6^1EG9(Y+74=-)C2":1W.QF?Q4>.^UQJI"<: MSE?Y3E-VD>>2<`"+)/OX`7K<)YRR@ MO/])\\'O\V;$&FWN9A*QPGJ.&%/^VA!SUX9?'4A/X?OZ>G'5>$CA*2NT#EFV M`C3G_4+C]8M@AGFK*>`81^<793QN97'NTOP]8K/I94Q*]0^2*;-(:E\.:U?V5]=+)_U/?=MU7U;==]NN6^W$DKZ$'GF MP\29ATDSOZURZDP*8HF9@'06(/C+OA!`S/_IA%G_GWTP_]MQZ[3SAR5__#_W MYG_T*(./Y'^L5K8P_Z-7^Y3_[4_Y8/Y'G/_DOP1R]R3^;'VC%(_PA]O MQTG^F)?A47V^NOZY.I,TC[AC_@M*?%F'I_B"EWM`R1[9/\K.]9C)08[!!PG-9%W,W\2Q'7UKTL8F!+^@7_Q];\N9U_B`-HI*Z%,!8 Message-Id: <199508282001.GAA12132@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types? Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>We have u_int32_t etc. in (actually in >>... >Yes, I meant u_int32_t. Any reason sys/types.h doesn't use them >to express the other types? This is how it is done in NetBSD. NetBSD apparently wanted to fix the type sizes for portability. We haven't needed needed to do that yet. 4.4lite apparently attempted to fix most of the sizes by using `long' even where `int' would be more natural (e.g., for pid_t). Both approaches are wrong. Kernel types and disk types should not correspond directly to the application interface to those types. E.g., Type FreeBSD NetBSDr1994/12) Right ---- ------- --------------- ----- min_dev_t - - u_int32_t disk_dev_t - - u_int32_t kernel_dev_t - - kernel_promote(min_dev_t) dev_t unsigned long int32_t user_promote(min_dev_t) min_pid_t - - u16_t (for PID_MAX = 30000) kernel_pid_t - - kernel_promote(min_pid_t) pid_t long int32_t user_promote(min_pid_t) where user_promote(foo_t) is a good promotion of foo_t with the reference user compiler and kern_promote(foo_t) is a good promotion of foo_t with the current kernel compiler. Application binary compatibility is given by fixing the refererence user compiler. Efficiency is given by choosing good promotions. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 13:13:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA23427 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:13:49 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA23418 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:13:41 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA12392; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:10:54 +1000 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:10:54 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508282010.GAA12392@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types? Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Oops. >Type FreeBSD NetBSDr1994/12) Right >---- ------- --------------- ----- ^( >min_dev_t - - u_int32_t >disk_dev_t - - u_int32_t >kernel_dev_t - - kernel_promote(min_dev_t) >dev_t unsigned long int32_t user_promote(min_dev_t) >min_pid_t - - u16_t (for PID_MAX = 30000) ^int16_t (pids are signed) >kernel_pid_t - - kernel_promote(min_pid_t) >pid_t long int32_t user_promote(min_pid_t) Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 13:43:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA24757 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:43:10 -0700 Received: from kaiwan.kaiwan.com (kaiwan.kaiwan.com [198.178.203.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA24749 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:43:07 -0700 Received: from exit.com (uucp@localhost) by kaiwan.kaiwan.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id NAA17492 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:43:04 -0700 *** KAIWAN Internet Access *** Received: (from frank@localhost) by exit.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA04576 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:36:26 -0700 From: Frank Mayhar Message-Id: <199508282036.NAA04576@exit.com> Subject: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:36:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199508282001.GAA12132@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 29, 95 06:01:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME5a] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 898 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just an aside, not directly related to the original subject. > Type FreeBSD NetBSDr1994/12) Right > ---- ------- --------------- ----- > min_pid_t - - u16_t (for PID_MAX = 30000) > kernel_pid_t - - kernel_promote(min_pid_t) > pid_t long int32_t user_promote(min_pid_t) Sixteen bits for PID_MAX? Yukko! IMHO, this should be at least 32, and preferably a black-box type (handled by allocate_pid(), not by an int increment, as fast that that might be -- it's still one of the least critical bits of fork()). Some distributed systems need at least 32 bits for the pid, since they add node information, and a black-box type would make this much easier. Granted, it's a nontrivial change, but it would be nice to see some system do it right. I don't think there's any inherent reason why pid_t should be limited to an int (of any size) in modern Un*ces. -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 13:44:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA24863 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:44:46 -0700 Received: from argus.iadfw.net (argus.iadfw.net [204.178.72.68]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA24857 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:44:40 -0700 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.iadfw.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA16108; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:44:17 -0500 From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199508282044.PAA16108@argus.iadfw.net> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: rashid@haven.ios.com (Rashid Karimov.) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:44:16 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281445.KAA13236@haven.ios.com> from "Rashid Karimov." at Aug 28, 95 10:45:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4653 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > From: "Rashid Karimov." > Subject: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 > To: hackers@freebsd.org > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:45:34 -0400 (EDT) > > Hi there folx, > > > > > After having a lot of problems with different > motherboards under FreeBSD I've switched to the > "editor's choice" - ASUS P54TP4 mb.,which was > recommended here by Jordan :) > Few problems went away ( like random reboots and > stuff), but oneremains consistent: Great motherboard! I've got one running RELEASE w/o problems using the 133MHz iron, 32m, Seagate [Barracuda] and Connor 2 Giggers, Adaptec 2940-W [PCI], Toshiba 4x CD-ROM [SCSI], Colorado 350 Tape, IBM 230M M-O, 1.44M and 2.88M floppies, soundblaster-16, siig hi-irq 4-port ISA async card, 3com 3c5x9 ISA ethernet, and ATI Pro-Graphics Turbo Mach64 PCI video... The only problems seem to be that startx won't get the X-server running without a panic unless you are initially logged in as root, su to root creates the same panic, and the fact that the boot floppies don't boot period, not even the level 1 bootstrap... Had to load from the CD in DOG. > the freaking system loks each and every day and > I think this is because of .... something related > to HD activity/driver/adapter/whatever. > > The system is P90,Adaptec 2940 PCI _SCSI adapter, > SMC EtherPower. > > > The symptoms: > > system locks at random times w/o any messages at the console/ > log files. Locks means the system becomes unreachable neither Are you using non-parity memory? As you know, memory errors will not trap unless you are using parity memory. If you want to use FreeBSD for anything other than home-use, I strongly suggest parity memory. (Get a warrantee!) > from the local net nor from the console > After I hit "reboot" switch, system reboots up to the fsck > level and it starts complaining that it can't read partition > information off the second HDD ( Seagate Barracuda 4 Gb) (!). Are you properly terminated? Is the BIOS termination set on/off as appropriate? Another side note, We have many Barracudas that work well, but I have personally come across three that either went bad or had to be returned initially. > If one hits "reboot" again and goes to the Adaptec BIOS and runs > disk utilities --> media check from there - the BIOS (!) complains > that it can not talk to the second HD. > > The problem goes away _only after powercycling the whole PC. > I never saw the stuff like this before ... any suggestions ? > Any bugs in Adaptec BIOSes ? Release numbers ? > > I've changed the Adaptecs - just in case... didn't help. > Will try to do the same with Seagate Barracuda ... never > had the problem with 'em before though I have yet to have a problem with Adaptec in either the 1542CF or the 2940W controllers. The ahc driver seems to detect the wide channel just fine, even though I haven't got anything connected to it [YET!]... > > Everything is fine till you don;t have too much activity going > on system. Some of the servers I have here run for months w./o > problems - but they do DNS/WWW/INN stuff. > As soon as you put 3000- 4000 users on the system - that when > the shit begins. > > Till now _the most stable version is SNAP back from Feb 95. > It is up for 24 days, runs 4000 account, 50-70 users online. > Bad things about it : > no support for 2940,SMC EtherPower and QUOTAs don't work. > Just reboot it every few days, and replace sendmail with something newer. the 0210-SNAP was kinda wierd for me... But then that's with a lot of activity. Looking at the lint file, QUOTA still is tagged saying it's problematic... I haven't played with 'options QUOTA' for months though... > I don't want to get rid of this perfect test place for FreeBSD > but I can not stand by PC and wait to reboot it all the time. > Looks to me that no1 runs the FreeBSD in such complex env. so I'll take bets on that one... Buy me a beer :) > I'd like to be able to continue this, but there is always a > limit :( > > > > > Rashid The best thing I can recommend is to check the cabling and termination on the drives... is the barracuda on the end of the scsi chain? I can help you if you don't have the drive termination right on that one [I don't have docs for the connor jumpers]. Jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, Sr. System/Network Admin, Internet America From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 14:01:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA25740 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:01:43 -0700 Received: from w8hd2.w8hd.org (w8hd2.w8hd.org [198.252.159.25]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25731 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:01:41 -0700 Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.11]) by w8hd2.w8hd.org (8.6.12/w8hd2) with SMTP id RAA10319 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:01:33 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:01:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 In-Reply-To: <199508281445.KAA13236@haven.ios.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 28 Aug 1995, Rashid Karimov. wrote: > After having a lot of problems with different > motherboards under FreeBSD I've switched to the > "editor's choice" - ASUS P54TP4 mb.,which was > recommended here by Jordan :) > Few problems went away ( like random reboots and > stuff), but oneremains consistent: > > the freaking system loks each and every day and > I think this is because of .... something related > to HD activity/driver/adapter/whatever. > > The system is P90,Adaptec 2940 PCI _SCSI adapter, > SMC EtherPower. I just setup an ASUS P55TP4XE with a 2940 and an EtherPower and no problem. Is a P54 and earlier version? kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 14:02:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA25838 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:02:46 -0700 Received: from argus.iadfw.net (argus.iadfw.net [204.178.72.68]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25827 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:02:40 -0700 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.iadfw.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA16162; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:02:25 -0500 From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199508282102.QAA16162@argus.iadfw.net> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:02:25 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281725.KAA01867@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 28, 95 10:25:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2797 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > From: "Rodney W. Grimes" > Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 > To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:25:23 -0700 (PDT) the ST-32550N is the 2 gigger barracuda. got one here at home, and works great. we have heavily used servers using Barracudas, and a couple of Hawks, both 2 and 4 gig models. we have had no apparent heating problems. I do have some problems with certain Connor 2-Gig drives... You can fry an egg on them... I'm afraid to put one in a system of any importance... Although the one I have in my home box here [the CPF2107S], has yet to have any problems with this model [not quite as good as the barracuda on the i/o speeds, though]. But then again, the servers I mention are in a temperature/humidity controlled environment; other cases and environments could cause overheating of ANY drive. > > Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > > Your barracuda has probably dropped off-line. How hot is it in your > > > case, anyway? :-) These drives get VERY WARM during operation and need > > > good ventilation to be happy! On hot days in badly designed cases, > > > they tend to go on vacation pretty predictably. > > > > Just on the 'cuda thread; I had opportunity to eyeball a pile of -4's > > tonight. Some observations for fans of big and fast disks, and > > particularly those that have met these drives before : > > By -4's do you mean ``Hawk-4'' series drives? As far as I can tell > the -4 in Barracuda-4 and Hawk-4 just means it is a 4G drive. > > > - They're quiet. (Yes, sports fans, quiet) > > - They don't get very hot. (One busy unit packed in a small, > > convection-cooled case with its power supply was finger-touch > > warm - all of the drives had been running for over a week) > > That was _not_ a Barracuda drive, unless seagate did some major > changes and didn't change the model name/number. Please give exact > details as to seagate model number. I suspect you where looking at > a Hawk drive (ST15230N), which do match the above description. > > > I think that Seagate may be moving in the right direction with these > > puppies. (Mind you, they're as picky as all get-out about SCSI cabling > > and termination 8( ) > > All fast scsi-ii drives are. > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD Jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, Sr. System/Network Admin, Internet America From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 14:09:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA26207 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:09:33 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA26199 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:09:22 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02461; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:08:24 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508282108.OAA02461@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: rashid@haven.ios.com (Rashid Karimov.) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281910.PAA11521@haven.ios.com> from "Rashid Karimov." at Aug 28, 95 03:10:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5273 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > After having a lot of problems with different > > > > motherboards under FreeBSD I've switched to the > > > > "editor's choice" - ASUS P54TP4 mb.,which was > > > > recommended here by Jordan :) > > > > Few problems went away ( like random reboots and > > > > stuff), but oneremains consistent: > > > > > > > > the freaking system loks each and every day and > > > > I think this is because of .... something related > > > > to HD activity/driver/adapter/whatever. > > > > > > > > The system is P90,Adaptec 2940 PCI _SCSI adapter, > > > > SMC EtherPower. > > > > > > > > > > > > The symptoms: > > > > > > > > system locks at random times w/o any messages at the console/ > > > > log files. Locks means the system becomes unreachable neither > > > > from the local net nor from the console > > > > After I hit "reboot" switch, system reboots up to the fsck > > > > level and it starts complaining that it can't read partition > > > > information off the second HDD ( Seagate Barracuda 4 Gb) (!). > > > > > > > > If one hits "reboot" again and goes to the Adaptec BIOS and runs > > > > disk utilities --> media check from there - the BIOS (!) complains > > > > that it can not talk to the second HD. > > > > > > It sounds like your Barracuda is overheating. > > > > I agree with that assement of the facts given here. But would like a > > few ``details'' filled in. > > > > a) When the lock up occurs are any drive select lights on solid? This bit of information could be valuable. > > b) Do you have an LED hooked to the controller and what state is it when > > the lock occurs? > > The LED on the adapter ( ADAPTEC ) is OFF. No activity at all - > at least for the time I'd been watching it. Okay, good. (Justin is the LED on the adaptec driven by the firmware, or is it simply tied to the scsi BUSY signal? Or do you even know?) > > c) Have you any process that core on occasion, or system panics of any > > form? [Looking for memory related problems which usually manifest > > themselves as random signall 11's if they occur in user land, and > > kernel panics if they occur in the kernel] > > Not with this particualr system. I do see like 5-10 messages > every 8-10 hours about processes dying with SIG 3 ( weird ). Not really, someone is using ^\ to abort something. See if the uid is always the same to track who is doing it down and ask them why they like to create core files :-). > They are randon though and this doesn't happen right before the > system locks up These are not caused by machine problems (or at least I have never seen a hardware failure cause a SIGQUIT in my life. > > > > d) And my most famous question I always ask, have your _triple_ checked > > that your scsi bus is properly terminated and built using high quality > > double shielded scsi-ii rated cables? [Applies to external cables, > > internal cables should be 110 Ohm 26AWG flat ribon cable.] Also make > > sure you are using ACTIVE termination, at fast scsi-II speeds anything > > less is dangerous. > > Well , the last HD is terminated, the first one is not. What about all the ones in between? And what about the controller??? > The terminated one gets the power from the HD. Should > I change it to "from the SCSI cable" ? No, getting it from the HD is the right place, especially on long chains. > The HDs are internal ones , so I use flat ribbon cable. > Don't have a brand on them though ... think they came > with adapters. Do the connectors go in firmly when connecting a drive, or are they fairly loose slipping on. (I have seen some really cheap low tension tin 50 pin IDC connectors that are good for about 4 cycles of use and then the contact resistance goes through the roof and scsi problems came out of the wood work.) > > > > e) Back to the Barracuda and heat problems, what is the case temperature > > of the drives while operating (give them 4 hours to stabalize under > > your worse load before taking a measurement). Also make sure not > > to perturb the normal conditions for those 4 hours. > > Its quite possible that this is a temperature problem, > since I've changed the motherboards on Friday and left the > PC in not-well-conditioned room. :-(. And probably don't have an direct air flow to this heat monster named after a fish :-). > Other thing happened since the time of my last message: > > The system locked up in the weird way - the console > driver was working , I could switch the virt. consoles, > when I telnetted from the net - I saw the message "connected', > but otherwise the system was dead. Don't know if it is > related to the same heat problem ,... That sounds all too much like a scsi sub system hang... did you wait for a while, or did you go for the reset pretty quickly? If you had waited you probably would have got a vnode pager error and a panic when it went to go to the disk. The timeouts are fairly long, so it can take a bit before the resulting panic comes up. Some times it just deadlocks though, depending on what was going on when the scsi bus went to lunch. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 14:10:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA26295 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:10:23 -0700 Received: from wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu [128.171.60.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA26285 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:10:18 -0700 Received: by wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA193444192; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:09:52 -1000 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 11:09:52 -1000 (HST) From: Terrence T Ozaki Subject: freebsd To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I can't seem to get a good connection on any machine. What gives? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 14:12:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA26432 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:12:35 -0700 Received: from coyote.Artisoft.COM (coyote.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.162]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA26425 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:12:30 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by coyote.Artisoft.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA21684; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:11:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508282111.OAA21684@coyote.Artisoft.COM> Subject: Re: Terry's changes.. To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:11:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, terry@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508272337.QAA17571@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Aug 27, 95 04:37:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1980 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I REALLY wish people would work on integrating the 4.4-lite2 changes before > going hog-wild. If these changes don't conflict with the lite-2 stuff, then by > all means proceed... The major FS conflicts with the Lite2 stuff are the existing initialization changes in vfs_conf.c and the changes already in place in the FreeBSD code but not in the Lite2 code for diskless support and for the new VM system. Not much else has changed, except in miscfs/* and ufs/lfs/*, both of which are pretty much untouched by my VFS patches. The unified diffs are pretty clean -- they are just some cosmetic stuff to make the code more readable in terms of what a compare againsts the symlinklength has to do with anything, plus some cleanup to make the code less dependent on strucuture alignment and element size. The SYSINIT stuff is about as conflicting as the PSEUDO_SET stuff for statically installed pseudo-devices. It trades the ability to linearly read down the init_main.c (which is unclear anyway because of the startinit return after fork returning to the calling assembly instead of calling an assembly routine at the ens of startinit) for the ability to linearly look down the header file kernel.h for gross initialization order. It also allows dropping in of binary modules, and because of the gapping, extension of the initialization tasks on an as-needed basis without header file or kernel mods. In fact, the use of the linker set code allows the modules to be included or omitted with no additional kernel changes. I think this is a fair trade for support of binary modules from third party vendors who want to do system initialization time tasks. It just means that the operation of the kernel startup should be documented -- this was a requirement before, and now it's just a slightly stronger requirement. #ifdef's all over the kernel should be removed anyway, they are warts from a lack of an adequate use of callback registration mechanisms. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 14:15:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA26610 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:15:26 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA26604 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:15:19 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02494; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:11:26 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508282111.OAA02494@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Version 1.3 of ATAPI CD-ROM driver To: vak@gw.cronyx.msk.su (Serge V.Vakulenko) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:11:25 -0700 (PDT) Cc: alain@Wit401402.student.utwente.nl, duff@rtd.com, hackers@freebsd.org, jdl@chrome.onramp.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, lmfmtm@ericsson.fi, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, paul@netcraft.co.uk, purna@cs.shizuoka.ac.jp, schwarz@alpharel.com, simonm@dcs.gla.ac.uk, sos@freebsd.org, swallace@eng.uci.edu In-Reply-To: <199508281950.XAA09419@gw.cronyx.msk.su> from "Serge V.Vakulenko" at Aug 28, 95 11:50:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 390 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi, > > This is the version 1.3 of ATAPI CD-ROM driver. > Posting 500 line mail files to lists with 1000 people on it is not such a cool idea. Please, in the future place it some place for anon ftp and send a pointer. Thanks, -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 14:24:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA27230 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:24:26 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA27209 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:24:22 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02559; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:22:56 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508282122.OAA02559@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net (Jim Bryant) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rashid@haven.ios.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508282044.PAA16108@argus.iadfw.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Aug 28, 95 03:44:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1327 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk ... > > The symptoms: > > > > system locks at random times w/o any messages at the console/ > > log files. Locks means the system becomes unreachable neither > > Are you using non-parity memory? As you know, memory errors will not trap > unless you are using parity memory. If you want to use FreeBSD for anything > other than home-use, I strongly suggest parity memory. (Get a warrantee!) FYI, the Intel Triton chipset does not have parity logic in it. You can't detect a parity error on the ASUS PCI/I-P5{4,5}TP* (commonly refered to as the ASUS Triton series) of boards. This applies to _ALL_ Triton based motherboards. The common failure symptom of bad memory on one of these systems is random signal 10's, and 11's (SIGSEGV, SIGBUS) and kernel panics (most often page not present). That goes for bad memory on any system infact, as often parity logic does not catch multibit errors (50% chance). Running 70nS memory with a 100 or 133MHz CPU is a good way to cause that particular failure mode (unless the MB stuffs waitstate in for you, the ASUS's do not, you can manually slow it down though, but ineffect you might as well drop the clock to 90Mhz). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 14:26:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA27477 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:26:39 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA27469 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:26:36 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02581; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:26:04 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508282126.OAA02581@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: kimc@w8hd.org (Kim Culhan) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Kim Culhan" at Aug 28, 95 05:01:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1173 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Mon, 28 Aug 1995, Rashid Karimov. wrote: > > > After having a lot of problems with different > > motherboards under FreeBSD I've switched to the > > "editor's choice" - ASUS P54TP4 mb.,which was > > recommended here by Jordan :) > > Few problems went away ( like random reboots and > > stuff), but oneremains consistent: > > > > the freaking system loks each and every day and > > I think this is because of .... something related > > to HD activity/driver/adapter/whatever. > > > > The system is P90,Adaptec 2940 PCI _SCSI adapter, > > SMC EtherPower. > > I just setup an ASUS P55TP4XE with a 2940 and an EtherPower and no problem. > > Is a P54 and earlier version? Well, sorta, sorta not. The P54 was designed before socket 7 was speced, it uses socket 5 (as do current production P55's). Both are still current production models, both are selling in very high volumes. They came out within 4 weeks of each other as far as initial product goes, so you can't really say about ``earlier''. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 14:27:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA27543 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:27:27 -0700 Received: from mpp.minn.net (mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA27536 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:27:24 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA27212; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:31:17 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199508282131.QAA27212@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) To: frank@exit.com (Frank Mayhar) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:31:17 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508282036.NAA04576@exit.com> from "Frank Mayhar" at Aug 28, 95 01:36:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1238 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Frank Mayhar wrote: > > Just an aside, not directly related to the original subject. > > > Type FreeBSD NetBSDr1994/12) Right > > ---- ------- --------------- ----- > > min_pid_t - - u16_t (for PID_MAX = 30000) > > kernel_pid_t - - kernel_promote(min_pid_t) > > pid_t long int32_t user_promote(min_pid_t) > > Sixteen bits for PID_MAX? Yukko! IMHO, this should be at least 32, and > preferably a black-box type (handled by allocate_pid(), not by an int > increment, as fast that that might be -- it's still one of the least > critical bits of fork()). Some distributed systems need at least 32 > bits for the pid, since they add node information, and a black-box type > would make this much easier. > > Granted, it's a nontrivial change, but it would be nice to see some system > do it right. I don't think there's any inherent reason why pid_t should > be limited to an int (of any size) in modern Un*ces. Since the subject of PID_MAX has come up, what is the reason for having it set to 30,000? That isn't really that large of a value, especially on a busy system. How about raising it to something like 90,000? -- Mike Pritchard mpp@mpp.minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 14:29:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA27689 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:29:10 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA27680 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:29:06 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA14752; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:24:08 +1000 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:24:08 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508282124.HAA14752@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: frank@exit.com, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Sixteen bits for PID_MAX? Yukko! IMHO, this should be at least 32, and >preferably a black-box type (handled by allocate_pid(), not by an int >increment, as fast that that might be -- it's still one of the least >critical bits of fork()). Some distributed systems need at least 32 >bits for the pid, since they add node information, and a black-box type >would make this much easier. >Granted, it's a nontrivial change, but it would be nice to see some system >do it right. I don't think there's any inherent reason why pid_t should >be limited to an int (of any size) in modern Un*ces. pid_t shall be a signed arithmetic type in POSIX systems (POSIX.1 section 2.5). The meaning of the bits isn't specified so you can treat it as a cookie except for the sign bit (which is presumably only required to encode process groups in kill() etc.). Does anyone know why POSIX specifies `signed arithmetic' types? The C standard specifies that the `arithmetic types' are the signed and unsigned integral types and the floating point types, so the `signed' in `signed arithmetic' doesn't add anything, but it suggests that POSIX really meant to say `integral' instead of `arithmetic'. Has anyone written a big portable program that supports dev_t, gid_t, ino_t, mode_t, nlink_t, off_t, pid_t, ssize_t and uid_t being arbitrary arithmetic types including long double? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 15:00:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA00922 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:00:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA00910 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:00:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199508282200.PAA00910@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: rashid@haven.ios.com (Rashid Karimov.), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Aug 95 14:08:23 PDT." <199508282108.OAA02461@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:00:29 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > b) Do you have an LED hooked to the controller and what state is it when >> > the lock occurs? >> >> The LED on the adapter ( ADAPTEC ) is OFF. No activity at all - >> at least for the time I'd been watching it. > >Okay, good. (Justin is the LED on the adaptec driven by the firmware, >or is it simply tied to the scsi BUSY signal? Or do you even know?) The LED can either be used in diagnostic mode (ie driven by the sequencer program) or tied to the scsi BUSY signal. All driver code I've committed has it tied to the BUSY signal. >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 15:04:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA01357 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:04:46 -0700 Received: from mv.mv.com (mv.MV.COM [192.80.84.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA01350 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:04:45 -0700 Received: (shaman@localhost) by mv.mv.com (8.6.10/mv(b)/mem-940616) id SAA25516 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 18:04:42 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 18:04:42 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199508282204.SAA25516@mv.mv.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: FreeBSD2.0 Clean Flag in Superblock References: <41bl3c$81q@mippet.ci.com.au> <41e49a$3lm@reason.cdrom.com> <41j96n$1nq@taxis.corp.titan.com> Organization: MV Communications, Inc. Alan Bawden wrote: >In article <41j96n$1nq@taxis.corp.titan.com> >ss@tisc.com (Steve Schossow) writes: > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > >Neither did we, which is why that fsck is no longer in there... :-) > > My point being that running fsck -n and piping the output through grep > could catch an impending problem if one picks the 'serious' messages. > >This story exactly parallels my own experience with a slowly failing disk >drive on a FreeBSD 1.1 machine. It was extremely useful to have that early >warning from the nightly fsck letting me know I was about to lose. I >haven't upgraded beyond 2.0 yet, but when I do, you can be sure I'm going >to put that fsck -back- in my /etc/daily! Is it that difficult to have a clopt that suppresses the "CLEAN FLAG" message, but tells you about everything else? I did a quick patch and my version seems to work fine. Anyone have a reason for this patch to be a bad thing? Anyone want it (ie. to fold back into the distribution)? -coranth --------------------------------------------------------+---------------------- Coranth Gryphon | Reality exists on a | need-to-know basis. E-Mail: gryphon@healer.com, shaman@mv.mv.com | Pager: (603) 599-0357 Phone: (603) 598-3440 | You do not currently US-Mail: 11 Carver Street, Nashua, NH 03060-2518 | need to know Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... +---------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 15:17:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA02118 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:17:07 -0700 Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA02096 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:17:02 -0700 Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA04038; Tue, 29 Aug 95 00:19:05 +0100 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 95 00:19:05 +0100 Message-Id: <9508282319.AA04038@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2872.809605718@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Argh. I think we need to do a quick reality-check on our docs.. X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> Jordan K Hubbard writes: > 2. Look at /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/${LANG}/* and see if you > can help John create a language-specific section for whichever > language it is you're most interested in. This is not only helpful > to the multi-lingual boot floppy work but also helps our effort to > eventually have versions of the Handbook available in multiple > languages! Wouldn't you like to see future versions of the > handbook available in German, French, Spanish or Russian? OK, I will continue the french translations!!! Jean-Marc _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 15:20:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA02294 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:20:28 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02272 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:20:20 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA28397 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:20:16 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA17081 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:20:16 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA24478 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:48:59 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508282148.XAA24478@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: postmaster@yggdrasil.com: Yggdrasil Product Information To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:48:57 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <3415.809611050@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 28, 95 04:57:30 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2933 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I find the fanfare surrounding the "buildable source tree!" to be > somewhat amusing, ... :-) > o FULLY BUILDABLE SOURCE TREE. Rebuild the whole system with > "cd /usr/src ; make install-clean". Use the new "whence" > command find source code for a file. For example: > > % whence csh > /bin/csh is actually /usr/bin/tcsh > /usr/bin/tcsh: Linux/i386 demand-paged executable (QMAGIC) > /usr/bin/tcsh installed from /usr/src/system/tcsh-6.05/tcsh Basically what our old `whereis' command did. I don't like the extra blubber above (e.g. running file(1) on the executable), but i really loved to have a command that was pointing at the location of the source and man page as well as the binary. Are there any reasons to stick with the crippled 4.4 version? > o HYBRID INSTALLATION. Any software not found on your hard > disk is run from the CDROM if the CD is mounted. Useful for > infrequently used programs or for trying out software before > deciding whether or not to install it. set path = ($path /cdrom/...) > o TRANSPARENT COMPRESSION. CD looks like a 1GB+ filesystem. There have been some volunteers here, but apparently nobody to really make it... > All binaries, including the entire X window system, the > kernel, the C compiler, and emacs compiled with "-O2" in > QMAGIC format. I hope they didn't forget -fno-strenght-reduce. ;) > Disk: IDE, RLL, MFM, ESDI, SCSI with supported SCSI controller. > Other disks accessible through DOS callbacks. Configurations > range from 10 megabytes to 1 gigabyte of disk. All binaries ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ??? > Tape: SCSI tape with supported SCSI controller. Experimental (i.e., > unsupported) driver for floppy tape. Hmm, they don't trust the ft driver, either. Interesting. I believed it were in a better shape in Linux. > HOW TO GET A FREE COPY > > Yggdrasil is greatly indebted to the many free software > developers whose efforts have made this release possible. As a token > of our appreciation, any author of any software or documentation in > Plug-and-Play Linux can get a free copy. Hmm, one should see if they've accidentally took something from us. This would give us a free copy. :--) slackware, man mount(8): ... Options -u update mount... ... BUGS The -u and -o synchronous options are not yet supported. ... (Man page Copyright: The Regents of the UCB.) Perhaps they would give the Regents a free copy? Btw., it took me way long to find that the update mount command was /etc/remount/mount -w -n -o remount /dev/hda1 / :-I -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 15:26:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA02470 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:26:23 -0700 Received: from chrome.onramp.net (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02461 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:26:08 -0700 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.onramp.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA03354 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:25:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199508282225.RAA03354@chrome.onramp.net> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.onramp.net: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ATAPI CDROM 1.3 update Reply-To: jdl@chromatic.com Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:25:51 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for the update to the ATAPI code. I've applied the 1.3 update, and it seems to be a good partial solution so far. It looks like it fixes the byte-swap for the ident string, allows it to be treated like a CD ROM, but doesn't get much further than that. Notice that this is still essentially the same problem with the double-command that we'd seen before too: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 1033MB (2116800 sectors), 2100 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S atapi0.1 at 0x1f0: attach called wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, cmd16 wcd0: info 85-80-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-0-0-0-0-0-0-2e-34-33-32-20-20-20-20-4e-45-43-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-43-44-2d-52-4f-4d-20-44-52-49-56-45-3a-32-36-30-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-a-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-b4-0-b4-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 atapi0.1: req im 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 len=24 atapi0.1: start atapi0.1: send cmd 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 atapi0.1: intr ireason=0x1, len=24, status=48, error=0 atapi0.1: send cmd 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 atapi0.1: intr ireason=0x3, len=24, status=41, error=64 I sent some mail to Scott Snyder, SNYDER@D0SB10.FNAL.GOV, asking about the lovely NEC 260. (He appears to be the Linuxian who wrote the ATAPI for the other camp.) He said: > Well, you can look at my linux atapi driver (drivers/block/ide-cd.c), > which works with the 260. The flags no_playaudio12, old_readcd, and > msf_as_bcd get set for the 260. Yep, watch that last one: MSF needs to be encoded as, get this, BCD! I couldn't find the old_readcd or msf_as_bcd flags anywhere. The no_playaudio12 was an "i've been here before and it didn't work then either" detection to force the msf_as_bcd behaviour. OK, I can hack that in if needed. Serge, do you know if this is already done? The code from the other camp had: cdrom_play_lba_range (ide_dev_t *dev, int lba_start, int lba_end) { /* This is rather annoying. My NEC-260 won't recognize group 5 commands such as PLAYAUDIO12; the only way to get it to play more than 64k of blocks at once seems to be the PLAYAUDIO_MSF command. However, the parameters the NEC 260 wants for the PLAYMSF command are incompatible with the new version of the spec. So what i'll try is this. First try for PLAYAUDIO12. If it works, great. Otherwise, if the drive reports an illegal command code, try PLAYAUDIO_MSF using the NEC 260-style bcd parameters. */ if (CDROM_FLAGS (dev)->no_playaudio12) return cdrom_play_lba_range_msf (dev, lba_start, lba_end); else { int stat, stat2; struct atapi_request_sense reqbuf; stat = cdrom_play_lba_range_play12 (dev, lba_start, lba_end); if (stat == 0) return 0; /* It failed. Try to find out why. */ stat2 = cdrom_request_sense (dev, &reqbuf); if (stat2) return stat; if (reqbuf.sense_key == 0x05 && reqbuf.asc == 0x20) { /* The drive didn't recognize the command. Retry with the MSF variant. */ printk ("%s: Drive does not support PLAYAUDIO12; " "trying PLAYAUDIO_MSF\n", dev->name); CDROM_FLAGS (dev)->no_playaudio12 = 1; return cdrom_play_lba_range_msf (dev, lba_start, lba_end); } /* Failed for some other reason. Give up. */ return stat; } } static int cdrom_play_lba_range_msf (ide_dev_t *dev, int lba_start, int lba_end) { struct packet_command pc; memset (&pc, 0, sizeof (pc)); pc.c[0] = SCMD_PLAYAUDIO_MSF; lba_to_msf (lba_start, &pc.c[3], &pc.c[4], &pc.c[5]); lba_to_msf (lba_end-1, &pc.c[6], &pc.c[7], &pc.c[8]); pc.c[3] = bin2bcd (pc.c[3]); pc.c[4] = bin2bcd (pc.c[4]); pc.c[5] = bin2bcd (pc.c[5]); pc.c[6] = bin2bcd (pc.c[6]); pc.c[7] = bin2bcd (pc.c[7]); pc.c[8] = bin2bcd (pc.c[8]); return cdrom_queue_packet_command (dev, &pc); } However, i'm willing to bet we're not anywhere near this code yet... :-) It still looks like it might be a variant on which flags are set and what the floating state of the status register is. I can compile this with much more detailed debug tracing if needed... jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 16:15:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA00446 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:15:51 -0700 Received: from eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA00439 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:15:40 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA26321; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:15:20 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA11936; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:15:04 +0200 Message-Id: <199508282315.BAA11936@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Pete Delaney cc: freebsd-cd@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, wow@efn.org, Mark@RockyMountain.rahul.net, Bill@RockyMountain.rahul.net, davem@caip.rutgers.edu, paul@freebsd.org, joerg@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD CD-ROM 2.0.5 - Any SPARC Porting Underway? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Aug 1995 02:31:20 PDT." <199508280931.AA10178@RockyMountain.rahul.net> Reply-To: jhs@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:15:03 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Pete (Delaney) , Unfortunately ... You Have Made A Gross Mistake By Adding freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org To The CC List Of The Private Mail I Sent You & about 6 others :-( freebsd-hackers list has ~300 to ~500 hackers The charter of the list may be obtained by echo info freebsd-hackers | mail majordomo@freebsd.org The people may be counted by echo who freebsd-hackers | mail majordomo@freebsd.org They saw the original announcement, & likely won't welcome your lightly edited return of the mega article with odd comments here & there. I copied the 2.0.5 announcement to a select group of those of my friends who were at my Birthday party, who asked about the CD & T-Shirts, plus you & a couple of other potentially interested people, these ~6 or 7 people were on the temporary list on my host freebsd-cd@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de I ever expected you to CC this to hundreds of people on freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In fact I have myself just recently unsubscribed freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org simply because of the volume & signal/noise ratio. I can only apologise to freebsd-hackers & say Pete's CC of private stuff, + Mega 2.0.5 anoncement you'd all seen before, was completely unexpected ! I will not even attempt to deal with other points & misunderstandings in the content of the mail, as this cross posted thread should die Fast ! I am not responsible for this, sorry folks. Julian Stacey From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 16:17:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA00570 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:17:59 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA00563 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:17:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA18350; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:17:45 -0700 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Subject: Re: postmaster@yggdrasil.com: Yggdrasil Product Information In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:48:57 +0200." <199508282148.XAA24478@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:17:44 -0700 Message-ID: <18348.809651864@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Basically what our old `whereis' command did. I don't like the extra > blubber above (e.g. running file(1) on the executable), but i really > loved to have a command that was pointing at the location of the > source and man page as well as the binary. Are there any reasons to > stick with the crippled 4.4 version? Not that I can see. I'd be happy to see a more featureful version! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 16:54:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA01627 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:54:12 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01621 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:54:07 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA06434; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:54:52 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:54:52 -0400 Message-Id: <199508282354.TAA06434@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Robert Minnear From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: alias ( secondary IP ) for Ethernet Ifaces in FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> I've talked to some of the >> gateD-people but they are pretty adamant about their design. I made some >> suggestions about how they should make gateD more generic because many of >> the supported UNIX platforms are becoming more diverse internally and it >> will become more and more difficult to keep everything working as time goes >> on. Complex interfaces (frame relay, X.25, atm, SMDS, etc) do not work with >> gated unless they are implemented in a particular way, and frankly the way >> that they must be implemented would make for a very poor product. Needless >> to say I received a rather nasty scolding for my efforts. >> >> I also have a serious problem with an application that dictates how a kernel >> subsystem has to be implemented....theres something wrong with the picture >> in general. > >I have just started looking at the gated internals and would interested >in hearing more about your suggestions to make gated more generic. I would >also be interested in understanding how complex interfaces must be implemented >in order to work with gated. I would appreciate it if you have the time >and understand it if you don't... > We're in the process of looking at it ourselves, but in summary this is how it goes.... gateD does "interface scans" to gather information about the running system, It basically looks at the ifnet structures and builds a profile for the system. The problem is that the kernel must look the way gated expects it to look, and the model that they use for multi-channel interfaces is poor and in some cases defective. Another problem with this method it that policy changes within the O/S ( that should be application transparent) can make gated not work. My proposal is simply to give gated a static topology of the network (as in a configuration file) instead of the "learning" method (ie the interface definitions, the attributes, the peer info). This would add much flexibility and very little if anything would be lost. All gated would have to query from the interfaces themselves would be status (up/down) info. A mechanism would have to be developed to tell gated about dynamic connections...but that really needs to be done anyway. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 17:51:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA03051 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:51:49 -0700 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA03045 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:51:40 -0700 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA07304 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for ); Tue, 29 Aug 1995 03:51:29 +0300 Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id DAA07290; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 03:51:30 +0300 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 03:51:30 +0300 Message-Id: <199508290051.DAA07290@shadows.cs.hut.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: dennis@et.htp.com's message of 28 Aug 1995 19:53:16 +0300 Subject: Re: alias ( secondary IP ) for Ethernet Ifaces in FreeBSD Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Otaniemi, Finland Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >What's the summary here? Is someone upset about a gated bug, a >FreeBSD bug or a little of both? Background details please! Thanks! IP aliasing doesn't seem to work when gated is running. Mr Corston complained that he had sent a bug report to the FreeBSD people and got no If IP aliasing here means two separate networks behind the same interface, it seems to work for us (all FreeBSD (current), OSFP, gated (latest alpha - 1, I think)): sysconfig: ifconfig_ed4="inet 194.100.8.254 netmask 255.255.255.0 alias 194.100.9.254 netmask 255.255.255.0" rc.local: ifconfig ed4 alias 194.100.9.254 netmask 255.255.255.0 I don't know why the first alias doesn't get through, but the second one seems to find its way to gated (I think I PR'd this). The both networks 194.100.8 and 194.100.9 are advertised. response and wasn't happy. I told him that I think that the problem has more to do with gateD than FreeBSD, and that it should not be the responsibility of an O/S to conform to an Application. I've talked to some of the Operating systems should converge towards common standards, so that applications no more need to be ported. That is what I have thought to be one of the primary advantages of UNIX, and that is what I have thought what operating systems are all about. If applications are doing things too OS specific, it almost always seems to be interface problem (lack of common interface, usually). But I don't know if this is true with routing code, and would like to see examples how gated is doing things wrong and how it really should do them. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 18:20:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA03869 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 18:20:12 -0700 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA03863 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 18:20:07 -0700 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA07478 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for ); Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:20:00 +0300 Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id EAA08982; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:20:02 +0300 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:20:02 +0300 Message-Id: <199508290120.EAA08982@shadows.cs.hut.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: "Rashid Karimov." Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: "Rashid Karimov."'s message of 28 Aug 1995 21:16:34 +0300 Subject: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Otaniemi, Finland Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk system locks at random times w/o any messages at the console/ log files. Locks means the system becomes unreachable neither from the local net nor from the console After I hit "reboot" switch, system reboots up to the fsck level and it starts complaining that it can't read partition information off the second HDD ( Seagate Barracuda 4 Gb) (!). If one hits "reboot" again and goes to the Adaptec BIOS and runs disk utilities --> media check from there - the BIOS (!) complains that it can not talk to the second HD. The problem goes away _only after powercycling the whole PC. I never saw the stuff like this before ... any suggestions ? What we see here: One of the SCSI disks becomes unreachable: IBM 0662's say "Disk dribe is becoming ready", often survies, Seagates lock up. Usually we get IO errors, panic, and the system gets stuck in SCSI BIOS probes (probably, it says WAIT and sits there until reset, sometimes requiring several resets or a power cycle). Almost everything has been changed already, the whole system around it. The only original things are the box (power supply) and IBM 0662 root disk, the latter will be replaced by the end of the week. It has been a P60 and P90, Buslogic and cheap NCR controllers have been tried out. Currently it has two NCR's, one with 0662 and 4G seagate hawk and another with 1G seagate hawk. I had a seagate barracuda in the system, and it gave similar problems. Everything is fine till you don;t have too much activity going on system. Some of the servers I have here run for months w./o problems - but they do DNS/WWW/INN stuff. As soon as you put 3000- 4000 users on the system - that when the shit begins. The problem is clearly load related, we get about one lockup a day, when it is getting a news feed in. If the news feed is dead, it seems to stay up fine. Till now _the most stable version is SNAP back from Feb 95. It is up for 24 days, runs 4000 account, 50-70 users online. Bad things about it : no support for 2940,SMC EtherPower and QUOTAs don't work. I'm still suspecting the hardware I have, but after replacing the last original component I'm running out of ideas. But it certainly should not hang in BIOS probes (assuming that Buslogic & NCR did their code right). This has been around since spring, at least. I also could find certain sequences of disk accesses which killed the machine repeatably. When I switched the 2G barracuda to a 4G hawk and copies news spool over, it always hung on certain files when tarring; I tarred the files before the place it hung separately, removed the copied files, and rerun the tar starting at the last hung; now it got past it. Another case I had when trying to install an application which created dbm indexes; it always hung the system when creating the indexes. So it seems that certain sequences of disk accesses kill the SCSI. Maybe seagate did something wrong in their disks? Tagged queuing? When it came around? -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 18:51:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA05241 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 18:51:55 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA05231 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 18:51:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id HAA13655; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:52:07 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199508290152.HAA13655@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Argh. I think we need to do a quick reality-check on our docs.. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:52:06 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2872.809605718@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 28, 95 03:28:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 764 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Could I get some volunteers for the following projects? > > 2. Look at /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/${LANG}/* and see if you > can help John create a language-specific section for whichever > language it is you're most interested in. This is not only helpful > to the multi-lingual boot floppy work but also helps our effort to > eventually have versions of the Handbook available in multiple > languages! Wouldn't you like to see future versions of the > handbook available in German, French, Spanish or Russian? I can take the translation to Russian. Should I send my translations to you or somebody else ? Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 19:06:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA05895 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:06:48 -0700 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com (emout04.mail.aol.com [198.81.10.12]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA05888 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:06:45 -0700 From: StevenR362@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA24586; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 22:02:15 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 22:02:15 -0400 Message-ID: <950828220212_85750301@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: rashid@haven.ios.com cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I believe that I saw very very early in this thread that you were using Quotas on your various test systems. You might want to try running without them and see if the system stays up longer. Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 19:31:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA06664 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:31:08 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA06643 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:31:02 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA24552; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:00:09 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508290230.MAA24552@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: ARP'ing [Summary of responses] To: SimsS@Infi.Net Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:00:07 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, apuzzo@alumni.cs.colorado.edu, davep@extendsys.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com In-Reply-To: <199508281259.FAA29765@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Pavlov's Cat" at Aug 28, 95 08:59:53 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1375 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Pavlov's Cat stands accused of saying: > same address (192.168.254.130) because it's the first free entry in it's > dynamic pool. (N.B.: DHCP servers don't have a way to monitor addresses > which are "in use" but weren't asssigned by the DHCP server.) The client > accepts the offered address and (at least with WinDoze clients) attempts to > ARP the wire for "192.168.254.130" since it doesn't explicitly "trust" the server. > Whoops! The client "discovers" that the address is already in use! Pick a DHCP server you have source for, and get it to arp around before it allocates the IP number. If it finds it, you have a few options : you can try to kill the offender (arp loudly for the same address and hope that they go offline as a result - this works well in some cases 8), or you can just log an irate message and try again later. (This would also be useful for retrieving state after a DHCP server restart) > Systems Engineer, IPC Technologies, Inc. Virginia Beach, VA -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 19:34:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA06806 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:34:00 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA06797 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:33:52 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA25986; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:31:38 +1000 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:31:38 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508290231.MAA25986@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidg@Root.COM, terry@artisoft.com Subject: Re: Terry's changes.. Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org, terry@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The SYSINIT stuff is about as conflicting as the PSEUDO_SET stuff for >statically installed pseudo-devices. It trades the ability to linearly >read down the init_main.c (which is unclear anyway because of the >startinit return after fork returning to the calling assembly instead >of calling an assembly routine at the ens of startinit) for the ability >to linearly look down the header file kernel.h for gross initialization >order. It also allows dropping in of binary modules, and because of the Couldn't some of it have stayed as direct function calls? It seems excessive to use an init function just to print the copyright (I had to introduce one because printf has the wrong type for an init function). I want to initialize clock interrupts earlier. This requires moving at least part of initclocks() to machine-dependent code and initializing curproc = &proc0 later. I don't want any non-determinism in the order for this. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 19:35:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA06881 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:35:09 -0700 Received: from wraith.internode.com.au (wraith.internode.com.au [192.83.231.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA06875 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:35:02 -0700 Received: by wraith.internode.com.au (5.83--+1.3.1+0.50/UA-5.23) id AA14195; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:01:50 +0930 From: Adrian Corston Message-Id: <9508290231.AA14195@wraith.internode.com.au> Subject: Re: alias ( secondary IP ) for Ethernet Ifaces in FreeBSD To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 95 12:01:48 CST Cc: dennis@et.htp.com, adrian@internode.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <11829.809626951@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 28, 95 09:22:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL17] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard types: >I am seriously confused. Did the rest of us here all come in >somewhere in the middle of a long conversation, or what? Needless to >say, I'm totally unable to make heads-or-tails of the attribution >nesting in the snippet of included text (it went 5 levels deep in the >middle!). > >What's the summary here? Is someone upset about a gated bug, a >FreeBSD bug or a little of both? Background details please! Thanks! Summary: 1. There's a miscompatibility between aliases on interfaces and gated, at least under FreeBSD. Popular opinion blames gated. 2. I submitted a FreeBSD PR about it, but received no useful replies until someone referred someone to me about it and I mentioned that I had received no useful replies, at which point in time someone told me that it was a gated bug, not a FreeBSD one. That's about it, there's nothing too sinister here. I think you've probably missed bits of the conversation because someone included a misspelled email address (hackers@feeebsd.org) along the way. -- Adrian Corston Network Consulting & Technical Support adrian@internode.com.au Internode Systems, Adelaide, South Australia Hobbies: Chorister (B2). Unrepentant ABBA Fan. DEC & Unix hardware collector. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 19:52:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA07349 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:52:26 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA07336 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:52:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA19249; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:51:31 -0700 To: "Serge A. Babkin" cc: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Argh. I think we need to do a quick reality-check on our docs.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:52:06 +0600." <199508290152.HAA13655@hq.icb.chel.su> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:51:30 -0700 Message-ID: <19247.809664690@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I can take the translation to Russian. Should I send my translations to > you or somebody else ? Straight to doc, I'd say! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 19:59:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA07602 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:59:30 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA07593 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:59:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA19321 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:59:08 -0700 Prev-Resent: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:59:07 -0700 Prev-Resent: "hackers@freebsd.org " Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.org (freefall.cdrom.com [192.216.222.4]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA19176 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:37:38 -0700 Received: from wc.cdrom.com (wc.cdrom.com [192.216.223.37]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA06965 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:37:36 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.223.34]) by wc.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA02749 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:37:13 -0700 Received: from comtch.iea.com (comtch.iea.com [198.17.249.2]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA15639 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:37:06 -0700 Received: from lake-city-08.iea.com by comtch.iea.com (8.6.10/SMI-4.1) id CAA06887; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 02:37:33 GMT Message-Id: <199508290237.CAA06887@comtch.iea.com> From: fred schrom Date: Sun, 30 Jul 95 20:49:51 -700 To: support@cdrom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla/1.0N (Windows) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: freebsd Resent-To: hackers@freebsd.org Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:59:08 -0700 Resent-Message-ID: <19319.809665148@time.cdrom.com> Resent-From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Does freeBSD have driver support for a DPT PM 3224 raid controller card??? I want to use it as the operating system for a new web site. FJS From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 20:03:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA07726 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:03:33 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA07720 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:03:31 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA15622; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:02:10 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508290302.UAA15622@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: hsu@cs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rashid@haven.ios.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508290120.EAA08982@shadows.cs.hut.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Aug 29, 95 04:20:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1388 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > One of the SCSI disks becomes unreachable: IBM 0662's say "Disk dribe is > becoming ready", often survies, Seagates lock up. Usually we get IO > errors, panic, and the system gets stuck in SCSI BIOS probes (probably, it > says WAIT and sits there until reset, sometimes requiring several resets or > a power cycle). > [...] > hang in BIOS probes (assuming that Buslogic & NCR did their code right). > This has been around since spring, at least. I've seen SCSI devices hang the scsi bus so solidly that they freeze the SCSI adapter just as solid half way through a DMA.... EVERYTHING stops.. I figure the mechanism is: DMA from SCSI to shared memory buffer on board freezes. DMA to motherboard cannot get Data ACK, and also freezes, holding an outsanding cycle on the EISA/VESA/Whatever bus which freezes the CPU :( > > that certain sequences of disk accesses kill the SCSI. certain patterns of data allowed the SCSI block agregation code to produce a really big DMA request.. Other Operating systems often don't do this so there are certainly several drive models out there that fail on this.. > Maybe seagate did something wrong in their disks? Tagged queuing? When it > came around? > have you tried en/dis abling this? > -- > Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, > hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 20:10:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA08019 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:10:33 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA08011 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:10:31 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA15647; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:09:13 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508290309.UAA15647@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Terry's changes.. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, terry@artisoft.com, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org, terry@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508290231.MAA25986@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 29, 95 12:31:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1818 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >The SYSINIT stuff is about as conflicting as the PSEUDO_SET stuff for > >statically installed pseudo-devices. It trades the ability to linearly > >read down the init_main.c (which is unclear anyway because of the > >startinit return after fork returning to the calling assembly instead > >of calling an assembly routine at the ens of startinit) for the ability > >to linearly look down the header file kernel.h for gross initialization > >order. It also allows dropping in of binary modules, and because of the > > Couldn't some of it have stayed as direct function calls? It seems > excessive to use an init function just to print the copyright (I > had to introduce one because printf has the wrong type for an > init function). Yes you could, and I guess it's really a judgement call as to what level of granuality you want. If you think of a good granularity, then sure, you might as well do this.. Terry had a good example, which was moving the differnt copyright for the HP/ whatever FP code into that file, so that if it was linked in, the message would be printed at the beginning and if it wasn't the it wouldn't. the #ifdef's in init_main.c would go away.. My thought is that you would be welcome to agregate any functions that you think are never going to be individually removed, or are never going to hae anyone else wanting to put an initialisation BETWEEN them. > > I want to initialize clock interrupts earlier. This requires moving at > least part of initclocks() to machine-dependent code and initializing > curproc = &proc0 later. I don't want any non-determinism in the order > for this. Surely this makes it easier to move.. you just add a SYSINIT line with the appropriately modified value. can we read the cmos clock earlier too? I need it quite early in devfs > > Bruce > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 20:24:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA08538 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:24:40 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA08530 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:24:33 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id XAA27927; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:29:26 -0400 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:29:26 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199508290329.XAA27927@healer.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Handbook ToDo... Cc: doc@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I hate to make this "help us with the docs, please!" plea so often in Keep it up until everyone says that the docs are fine :-) > Could I get some volunteers for the following projects? > 1. Fill in the *'d topics in the Handbook. Some people have told me >... > If you take a `*'d item, please also send a note to doc@FreeBSD.org Ok. I'll take "Basic Networking", and "Gateways and Routes". What level of technical detail (or what volume of text) do we want? -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 20:26:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA08650 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:26:10 -0700 Received: from lisa.rur.com (G338.257.InterLink.NET [199.202.234.53]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA08642 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:26:06 -0700 Received: (from leo@localhost) by lisa.rur.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA03475; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:25:33 GMT Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:25:33 +0000 () From: Leo Papandreou To: Jim Bryant cc: "Rashid Karimov." , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 In-Reply-To: <199508282044.PAA16108@argus.iadfw.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Are you using non-parity memory? As you know, memory errors will not trap > unless you are using parity memory. If you want to use FreeBSD for anything > other than home-use, I strongly suggest parity memory. (Get a warrantee!) Actually, no triton based board traps parity errors. If you need what itsy- bitsy comfort parity checks give you then you are going to have to sacrifice performance and use a neptune based board. Personally I think parity memory is a poor investment; assuming I'm clear on the techical details, once the P6 becomes a commodity item (real soon now) the next motherboard you buy will want ECC memory, anyway. Its neat the way this industry creates its own demand, eh? The upside to this is that financial institutions and similiar nervous nellies will migrate their mission-critical servers to cost-effective intel platforms whereupon demand for FreeBSD will go through the roof. Now is the time to buy WC stock. :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 20:29:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA08756 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:29:30 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA08749 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:29:22 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA28606; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:28:01 +1000 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:28:01 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508290328.NAA28606@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: Terry's changes.. Cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org, terry@artisoft.com, terry@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >can we read the cmos clock earlier too? >I need it quite early in devfs Yes. There was no point in reading it before starting the hz clock. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 20:36:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA09068 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:36:05 -0700 Received: from relay1.pipex.net (relay1.pipex.net [158.43.128.6]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA09062 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:36:03 -0700 Received: from tpone (actually tpone.telepac.pt) by flow.pipex.net with SMTP (PP); Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:35:51 +0100 Received: from sb1_p6.telepac.pt by tpone (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA01849; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:32:04 +0000 Message-Id: <9508290432.AA01849@tpone> X-Sender: toor@mail.telepac.pt X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:35:35 -0100 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Jose Gabriel J Marcelino Subject: Portuguese language content-length: 1435 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk 2. Look at /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/${LANG}/* and see if you can help John create a language-specific section for whichever language it is you're most interested in. This is not only helpful to the multi-lingual boot floppy work but also helps our effort to eventually have versions of the Handbook available in multiple languages! Wouldn't you like to see future versions of the handbook available in German, French, Spanish or Russian? Umm. I can work on a Portuguese edition for people in Portugal, some of Africa and Brazil.. Would that be ok? Also, I'm trying to code a nifty IFS driver for DOS so that we may be able to read FreeBSD partitions from DOS (with some limitations, of course)... But I need more info on BSD filesystes. Where can I get that? Source code IS good but will take a lot more time to actually work with... (i'm not so good with C, i'm much better at asm code... but willing to learn! :-)) Ideas anyone? Gabriel ps - Got FBSD just 2 weeks ago, love it! Thanks to everyone who made this system a reality! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Get WIRED! - Jose Gabriel J Marcelino - toor@telepac.pt =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= GCS d- !s a--- C+++ sysO sysL U++>+++ P+>++++ L+ E W+++>$ N++ K- w(--) !O M-- V-- PS+++ !PE PGP++ t+ X++ tv- b+ D+ G e h! r y@ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 20:38:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA09185 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:38:19 -0700 Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA09178 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:38:17 -0700 Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA10861; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 22:37:50 -0500 From: John Fieber Message-Id: <199508290337.WAA10861@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu> Subject: Re: Argh. I think we need to do a quick reality-check on our docs.. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 22:37:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2872.809605718@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 28, 95 03:28:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3539 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > 1. There is a lot of redundancy between the two. Yes, and as the handbook becomes more complete, so does the redundancy. I was just scanning through today and noticed at least a dozen sections that could be replaced by a simple pointer to the appropriate handbook section. I think what may need to evolve is a "FAQ interface" to the handbook; basically an alternate table of contents for the impatient. Or put another way, we do our best to make sure that the handbook provides all the correct information, and the FAQ serves as an index of sorts... > 2. We really really need a permuted index!! One approach is to wire in some indexing to the sgml mechanism. The tags are already in the DTD, they just need to be attached to processing mechanism. If someone spends a lot of time indexing, this will produce the best results. Another approach I started a couple month back but never finished was to make wais index out of it. This has the disadvantage of not shipping with system (unless wais software and an http server are added to FreeBSD...BLOAT!BLOAT!BLOAT!). Finally, I think a large number of FAQs are hardware related. To that end, we should get cracking on the hardware section of the handbook. At this point it has some commentary from Rod on PCI chipsets, and a couple notes on Digiboard and Boca multiport boards. What is envision for the hardware section is this: At the beginning of each subsection, for example, Serial ports, there should be some general information including what driver(s) in the kernel are relevant and a sample line to add to a kernel config file. After that should be notes on particular hardware that is known to work very well (recommended), work okay with some twiddling, or not work at all (not recommended). > This means that what's on the floppy will no longer be something that > comes out of /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/..., it will be a subset > of the handbook itself! Jordan, just let me know *exactly* which sections of the handbook you want. If you answer correctly, it will be a snap to generate a subset document (though we may have to deal with some dangling cross references). ;) > sense in maintaining two versions. We also need to bring the > foreign-language versions over so that all that work isn't lost, and I > daresay that John Fieber could use some help here! I'm not writing the foreign language stuff; I have enough problems with my native language. 8) However, In the next day or so, I'll have a switch added to sgmlfmt(1) to allow selective processing of documents. (i.e. to support multiple languages, multiple editions and the like.) Also, I won't be able to do SGML tagging on the foreign texts, seing as how I wouldn't know what I was tagging.... However, don't hesitate to email me if you have any questions about the tagging. > If you take a `*'d item, please also send a note to doc@FreeBSD.org > so that work isn't unnecessarity duplicated. Please don't take > something you won't finish, since by "adopting" it you're also > essentially dissuading anyone else from doing so! And if you take `*''d item, your name will go in the handbook under that item and show up with your mail address as a mailto: URL. That will make it easy for people to send reminders. ];> -john PS: my email address will be changing in a day or two... watch this space! == jfieber@cs.smith.edu ========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 20:52:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA09641 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:52:50 -0700 Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA09631 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:52:47 -0700 Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA10908; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 22:52:26 -0500 From: John Fieber Message-Id: <199508290352.WAA10908@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu> Subject: Re: Argh. I think we need to do a quick reality-check on our docs.. To: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 22:52:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281359.PAA22021@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Aug 28, 95 03:59:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 776 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > I volunteer for German again, but due to the job change, i'm afraid i > won't be able to spend that much time into the subject as previously. Before translators get going, I think we need to take a good look at the english install docs. As they are probably one of the most influential factors in whether or not a new user starts with a good impression of FreeBSD, extra care needs to go into their writing. I would encourage anyone who has time to look over what we currently have (http://www.freebsd.org/How/handbook/install.html) and make comments and suggestions on the doc mailing list (doc@freebsd.org). -john == jfieber@cs.smith.edu ========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 21:01:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA10222 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:01:46 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA10203 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:01:42 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA15515; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:59:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508290359.UAA15515@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Terry's changes.. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:59:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, terry@Artisoft.com, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org, terry@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508290231.MAA25986@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 29, 95 12:31:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1777 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ ... SYSINIT stuff ... ] > Couldn't some of it have stayed as direct function calls? It seems > excessive to use an init function just to print the copyright (I > had to introduce one because printf has the wrong type for an > init function). Yes and no. The printf(), of which there is an example in the init_main.c unless Julian has moved it already, is a bad exmaple, since it wants to be in the initialization code for the module bein initialized. You add the module, you get the printf, you delete the module, the printf goes away. You can cast the fuction pointer if you are worried about warnings, but the copyright stuff, I'd actually prefer as a seperate entity. > I want to initialize clock interrupts earlier. This requires moving at > least part of initclocks() to machine-dependent code and initializing > curproc = &proc0 later. I don't want any non-determinism in the order > for this. That's what the holes are for. The determinism in the order is dictated by the enumeration value, not order. The order field lets you initialize subparts of the same driver; for other things, you just make sure they occur in enumeration order. An enumeration order change would require a change to kernel.h -- in general, it's not critical enough for non default systems that you need to add an enumeration entry. You take an existing entry + some to get an ordered set. Just because you want to init a then b then c doesn't mean that someone won't want to init q between your a and your b. As long as you don't depend on q and q doesn't depend on you, no problem. Personally, I'd appreciate initializing the clocks as one of the first things in the system at all, since I think timers in the device probe code could greatly help concurrency. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 21:21:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA10972 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:21:05 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA10965 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:21:01 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id GAA04610 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:20:58 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id GAA18695 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:20:58 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA24908 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:41:50 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508282241.AAA24908@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:41:50 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508282124.HAA14752@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 29, 95 07:24:08 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 495 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bruce Evans wrote: > > Does anyone know why POSIX specifies `signed arithmetic' types? > ... Has anyone > written a big portable program that supports dev_t, gid_t, ino_t, > mode_t, nlink_t, off_t, pid_t, ssize_t and uid_t being arbitrary > arithmetic types including long double? ``process 133.34778 killed due to loss of PID precision.'' :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 21:21:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA11020 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:21:27 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA10996 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:21:17 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id GAA04619; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:21:10 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id GAA18697; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:21:09 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA24975; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:47:12 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508282247.AAA24975@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: freebsd To: ozaki@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (Terrence T Ozaki) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:47:12 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Terrence T Ozaki" at Aug 28, 95 11:09:52 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 249 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terrence T Ozaki wrote: > > I can't seem to get a good connection on any machine. What gives? Huh? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 21:21:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA11021 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:21:27 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA11005 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:21:23 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id GAA04623; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:21:11 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id GAA18698; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:21:10 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA24880; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:37:44 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508282237.AAA24880@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Clean flag wrong in superblock To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:37:44 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: shaman@mv.MV.COM (Coranth Gryphon) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199508282204.SAA25516@mv.mv.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Aug 28, 95 06:04:42 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 952 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Coranth Gryphon wrote: > > Is it that difficult to have a clopt that suppresses the "CLEAN FLAG" > message, but tells you about everything else? I did a quick patch > and my version seems to work fine. > > Anyone have a reason for this patch to be a bad thing? > Anyone want it (ie. to fold back into the distribution)? It's not only the clean flag. There might be other bogus messages resulting out of applying fsck to a live file system (incorrenct block counts for example). So running it is just a thing for hackers and experienced admins, while it will confuse many people who are new to the concepts of a unix file system. Perhaps the best solution would be to have a knob for turning it on. I remember some Perl script called jkh who wanted to revamp all those /etc/*ly scripts some day. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 21:31:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA11378 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:31:14 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA11372 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:31:09 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id AAA28292; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:36:05 -0400 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:36:05 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199508290436.AAA28292@healer.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: Clean flag wrong in superblock Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: > It's not only the clean flag. There might be other bogus messages > resulting out of applying fsck to a live file system (incorrenct block If there is a definitive list of what is useful to warn people about (given that people who are not the sysadmin will not be reading the reports :-), let me know and I'll add that to the list of things to ignore. I've seen enough "But I *want* to see the fsck output" postings that I think it is worth the effort. > Perhaps the best solution would be to have a knob for turning it on. > I remember some Perl script called jkh who wanted to revamp all those > /etc/*ly scripts some day. :-) Funny you should mention that. I just sent Jordan a package (partially written in perl :-) which does revamp those scripts. It takes a config file, and builds the daily/weekly/monthyl scripts based upon what you want to run when. But having fsck be able to ignore the stuff that will ALWAYS show up (and can ALWAYS be safely ignored) is useful. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 21:44:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA11626 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:44:03 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA11620 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:43:55 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA31773; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:40:11 +1000 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:40:11 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508290440.OAA31773@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@artisoft.com Subject: Re: Terry's changes.. Cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org, terry@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Yes and no. The printf(), of which there is an example in the >init_main.c unless Julian has moved it already, is a bad exmaple, >since it wants to be in the initialization code for the module >bein initialized. You add the module, you get the printf, you delete >the module, the printf goes away. Yes, the module might as well print its own data. >You can cast the fuction pointer if you are worried about warnings, >but the copyright stuff, I'd actually prefer as a seperate entity. No, that would only hide the bug. printf() isn't compatible with `void foo(caddr_t)' and the call would break if the kernel was compiled with -mrtd. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Aug 28 23:48:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA14341 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:48:56 -0700 Received: from tango.rahul.net (tango.rahul.net [192.160.13.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA14334 ; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:48:54 -0700 Received: from bolero.rahul.net by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA17081 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5); Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:48:52 -0700 Received: from RockyMountain.rahul.net by bolero.rahul.net with SMTP id AA05975 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5); Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:48:48 -0700 Received: by RockyMountain.rahul.net id AA10891 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:48:10 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:48:10 -0700 From: Pete Delaney Message-Id: <199508290648.AA10891@RockyMountain.rahul.net> To: jhs@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD CD-ROM 2.0.5 - Any SPARC Porting Underway? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, wow@efn.org, Mark@RockyMountain.rahul.net, Bill@RockyMountain.rahul.net, davem@caip.rutgers.edu, paul@freebsd.org, joerg@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hey Jordan: > > > I am not responsible for this, sorry folks. > > > > Julian Stacey > > Oh, don't worry. We hold you responsible anyway. Pete's purely > YOUR fault, Julian! You unleashed him on us to begin with! :-) > > Jordan Nice to see that you havn't changed Jordan, your style is allright. I'm still waiting for all of the flames, perhaps you can coax the hackers into writing a few mail script loops to 'teach me a lesson'. So I'm more than a bit currious why I didn't find a single byte about SPARC anywhere through out the FreeBSD Release? Anyone know if 'anyone' has raised any Legal issues with BSDI or Chris Torek on his SPARC Stuff in the BSD release. I was currious why it wasn't on the CD. With Dave Miller making big time progress on SPARC on Linux and Chris Torek's stuff I would think about three man months from now we could have FreeBSD running on the sun4c. -Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 00:54:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA16644 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:54:42 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA16638 ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:54:40 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA17487; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:53:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id AAA19129; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:55:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199508290755.AAA19129@corbin.Root.COM> To: Pete Delaney cc: jhs@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, wow@efn.org, Mark@rockymountain.rahul.net, Bill@rockymountain.rahul.net, davem@caip.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: FreeBSD CD-ROM 2.0.5 - Any SPARC Porting Underway? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Aug 95 23:48:10 PDT." <199508290648.AA10891@RockyMountain.rahul.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:55:15 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Anyone know if 'anyone' has raised any Legal issues with BSDI or Chris Torek >on his SPARC Stuff in the BSD release. I was currious why it wasn't on >the CD. With Dave Miller making big time progress on SPARC on Linux and >Chris Torek's stuff I would think about three man months from now we could >have FreeBSD running on the sun4c. That's correct. In fact, someone has already done a port of the Sparc code to an earlier version of FreeBSD...but it would need a LOT of work to port the port to -current. I will get to it eventually (I have a Sparc sitting next to me), but at the moment I'm too busy with other things in FreeBSD (namely, the 2.1 release). -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 00:57:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA16721 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:57:18 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA16713 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:57:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA04925 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 09:49:29 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199508290749.JAA04925@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: fdisk & disklabel troubles To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 09:49:29 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3100 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am having a hard time in understanding/using the parameters used in the disk-maintainance utilities (fdisk, disklabel, sysinstall etc.) since the introduction of slices (tried this on both 2.0.5-RELEASE and the 950726-SNAPSHOT). After spending a few hours on the above programs, I have more details which I hope somebody can clarify. I am starting with a fresh, full 950726-SNAPSHOT installation on wd0 (entire disk for freebsd) and an aborted install on wd2 (entire disk for freebsd, but just did the partition and newfs). I see that: * fdisk cannot read a valid partition table from either disk. The "bios idea" of the disk, as printed by fdisk, shows one cylinder less than the real size. * fdisk cannot write the partition table either (or at least, it cannot be read back!). I tried to set the correct parameters and write to disk, fdisk did not write any error message but reading again the partition table shows the same old values. (cannot do further experiments with working fdisks, but my setting is easily reproducible). * (BTW, the "usage" line of fdisk shows a "-r" flag which does not exist. Luckily, fdisk does not kill the system. With disklabel, things seem to be worse: whenever I try to write a label, the system reboots. As a reference, here are the different ideas of the disks: REAL: 1010 cyl, 12 hd, 55 sec, total 666.600 sectors fdisk: 1009 cyl, 12 hd, 55 sec, part. start 1, size 665.939 beg.: cyl.0 sec.2 hd.0 end: cyl.1009 sec.1 hd.0 disklabel: 1009 cyl, 12 hd, 55 sec, size 666.545 REAL: 1057 cyl, 16 hd, 63 sec, total 1.065.456 sectors fdisk: 1056 cyl, 16 hd, 63 sec, part. start 1, size 1.064.447 beg.: cyl.0 sec.2 hd.0 end: cyl.32 sec.1 hd.0 disklabel: 1056 cyl, 16 hd, 63 sec, size 1.065.393 I also tried to use /stand/sysinstall for formatting the disk, but without luck: the Write option in the partition editor does not work! I have played a little with the /sysinstall code (/src/release/sysinstall/disks.c) and found that, for some reason, the disk (in diskPartitionWrite()) is not "enabled", thus the MBR is not written to disk. However, I don't know how long the code will survive, and probably Jordan is the best candidate to fix it. So: does anyone know of a safe way to fdisk/disklabel a disk on 2.0.5 and newer releases ? I have already lost the partition table on two disks, and have killed the data on the disks by trying to fix them with fdisk &C. And now I am really scared on installing 2.0.5 rather than snap950322 on newer machines! Thanks Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 01:21:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA17682 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:21:36 -0700 Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.6]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA17674 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:21:32 -0700 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA09637; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:18:13 +0200 From: Thomas Gellekum Message-Id: <199508290818.KAA09637@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: precompiled Mosaic To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:18:13 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: imb@scgt.oz.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <25986.809431458@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 26, 95 03:04:18 am Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 471 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Related to this subject .. is there any news on the Motif (1.2, 2.0 ?) libs > > for FreeBSD so we can compile our own .. is their CD shipping yet ? If so, > > what 2.0.5 dependencies am I likely to fall over when running -current ? > > info@lasermoon.co.uk > > Only they know for sure. What's the status of the `almost finished' free Motif clone one of the more prolific participants of these mailing lists keeps teasing us with? tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 01:33:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA18033 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:33:33 -0700 Received: from strider.ibenet.it ([194.179.130.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18025 ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:33:20 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA01926; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:36:18 +0200 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199508290836.KAA01926@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: Help translating help To: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:36:17 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508281359.PAA22021@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Aug 28, 95 03:59:30 pm Reply-To: Piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 595 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Jordan K. Hubbard: > 2. Look at /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/${LANG}/* and see if you > can help John create a language-specific section for whichever > language it is you're most interested in. This is not only helpful I will translate to it_IT.ISO_8859-1. I tarred en_US.ISO_8859-1, and I'll put on thud it_IT.ISO_8859-1.tar.gz asap. Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 01:57:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA19166 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:57:48 -0700 Received: from tango.rahul.net (tango.rahul.net [192.160.13.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA19128 ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:57:41 -0700 Received: from bolero.rahul.net by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA20513 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5); Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:57:27 -0700 Received: from RockyMountain.rahul.net by bolero.rahul.net with SMTP id AA17052 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5); Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:57:23 -0700 Received: by RockyMountain.rahul.net id AA11308 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:56:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 01:56:45 -0700 From: Pete Delaney Message-Id: <199508290856.AA11308@RockyMountain.rahul.net> To: davidg@root.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD CD-ROM 2.0.5 - Any SPARC Porting Underway? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, port-sparc@netbsd.org, tech-ports@netbsd.org, netbsd-ports@netbsd.org, davem@caip.rutgers.edu, freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi Dave: > > >Anyone know if 'anyone' has raised any Legal issues with BSDI or Chris Torek > >on his SPARC Stuff in the BSD release. I was currious why it wasn't on > >the CD. With Dave Miller making big time progress on SPARC on Linux and > >Chris Torek's stuff I would think about three man months from now we could > >have FreeBSD running on the sun4c. > > That's correct. In fact, someone has already done a port of the Sparc code > to an earlier version of FreeBSD...but it would need a LOT of work to port the > port to -current. I don't suppose you know: 1. Who did it? 2. Where a copy of it is? 3. Why it wasn't integrated into the release? 4. What the problems are? 5. If some of the NetBSD guys would like to help. > I will get to it eventually (I have a Sparc sitting next to > me), but at the moment I'm too busy with other things in FreeBSD (namely, the > 2.1 release). Since the previous version didn't make it into the release, I wonder if have this be more than a one man show might help increase the odds. If we could get a few guys working on this I would think the odds greatly improved. I've got plenty of sparkstations that I can use here at RockyMountain. What have you been plaining to do? > > -DG -pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 02:28:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA20750 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 02:28:02 -0700 Received: from strider.ibenet.it ([194.179.130.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA20743 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 02:27:54 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA02381; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:29:05 +0200 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199508290929.LAA02381@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: ARP'ing [Summary of responses] To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:29:05 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers' List) In-Reply-To: <199508290230.MAA24552@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Aug 29, 95 12:00:07 pm Reply-To: Piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1485 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Michael Smith (Tue Aug 29 04:30:07 1995): > Pavlov's Cat stands accused of saying: > > same address (192.168.254.130) because it's the first free entry in it's > > dynamic pool. (N.B.: DHCP servers don't have a way to monitor addresses > > which are "in use" but weren't asssigned by the DHCP server.) The client > > accepts the offered address and (at least with WinDoze clients) attempts to > > ARP the wire for "192.168.254.130" since it doesn't explicitly "trust" the server. > > Whoops! The client "discovers" that the address is already in use! > > Pick a DHCP server you have source for, and get it to arp around before > it allocates the IP number. If it finds it, you have a few options : ... I'd go another way: shutdown the entire network on a saturday night for maintenance, set your own machine to ARP each and every address you don't use, then correct all the IP numbers your abusers are abusing and turn the network up again. Then stick this note around: I HAD TO WORK ALL THE NIGHT LONG TO RECOVER THE NETWORK FROM YOUR ABUSES!! Please note that assigning IP numbers is *MY* duty, not yours, so if you need one, just ask. VIOLATORS WILL BE PROSECUTED AND KILLED ON THE SPOT. It should work. Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 02:31:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA20858 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 02:31:58 -0700 Received: from argus.iadfw.net (argus.iadfw.net [204.178.72.68]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA20852 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 02:31:55 -0700 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.iadfw.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA01158 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:31:52 -0500 From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199508290931.EAA01158@argus.iadfw.net> Subject: ibm mta-3230 230meg 3.5" m-o drive To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:31:52 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 842 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hey.. i finally got the manual for my m-o drive from ibm... not immediate but fast enough, given that they are moving. this manual is extremely well laid out and is in enough detail to impress me. i haven't seen a tech manual on a hardware product this well thought out in a long time. it defines clearly the functions of the hardware. I'm so impressed, I thought I'd tell the list about it... Their CPUs may suck, their operating systems may be worse, but they know how to write a manual [and make an affordable m-o drive]! Jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, Sr. System/Network Admin, Internet America From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 03:22:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA22437 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 03:22:29 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA22420 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 03:22:06 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA14800 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:21:54 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA20161 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:21:53 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA17364 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:41:26 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508290641.IAA17364@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: postmaster@yggdrasil.com: Yggdrasil Product Information To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:41:24 +0200 (MET DST) Action: ckers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Reply-To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <18348.809651864@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 28, 95 04:17:44 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1250 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Basically what our old `whereis' command did. I don't like the extra > > blubber above (e.g. running file(1) on the executable), but i really > > loved to have a command that was pointing at the location of the > > source and man page as well as the binary. Are there any reasons to > > stick with the crippled 4.4 version? > > Not that I can see. I'd be happy to see a more featureful version! Are there any legal problems with re-importing the Net2 code here? As far as i can see, this program originated at Berkeley: WHEREIS(1) FreeBSD Reference Manual WHEREIS(1) NAME whereis - locate binary, manual, and or source for program SYNOPSIS whereis [-bms] [-u] [-BMS dir ... -f] name ... ... HISTORY The whereis command appeared in 3.0BSD. 3rd Berkeley Distribution August 29, 1995 1 /*- * Copyright (c) 1980 The Regents of the University of California. (:-) * All rights reserved. * In case of doubt, perhaps Wolfram would volunteer to re-hack it in Perl? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 04:19:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA23855 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:19:42 -0700 Received: from crox.net.kiae.su (crox.net.kiae.su [144.206.130.72]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA23806 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:19:18 -0700 Received: by crox.net.kiae.su id PAA00467; (8.6.9/vak/1.8a) Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:13:26 +0400 To: bde@zeta.org.au Cc: hackers@freebsd.org References: Message-ID: Organization: Cronyx Ltd. Date: Tue, 29 Aug 95 15:13:25 +0400 X-Mailer: BML [UNIX Beauty Mail v.1.39] From: vak@cronyx.ru Subject: Re: Help installing IDE CD-ROM driver Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From: Bruce Evans > > In 2.2-current, MAKEDEV only creates the 'c' partition. This is > probably bogus. The 'c' partition is actually the 'a' partition (it has > minor 0). This is certainly bogus. The wcd*) case is similar to the > cd*|mcd*|scd*) and should be merged. There is no disklabel support in wcd driver, that's why there is no /dev/wcd0a device. Is it really needed? Serge --- Serge Vakulenko Cronyx Ltd., Moscow Unix consulting and custom programming phone: +7 (095) 939-23-23 FreeBSD support fax: +7 (095) 939-03-00 Relcom network development From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 04:27:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA24328 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:27:54 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA24320 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:27:51 -0700 Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA01159; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:22:24 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199508291122.HAA01159@hda.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hsu@cs.hut.fi, rashid@haven.ios.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508290302.UAA15622@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Aug 28, 95 08:02:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 690 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've seen SCSI devices hang the scsi bus so solidly that they freeze the > SCSI adapter just as solid half way through a DMA.... > EVERYTHING stops.. I have something here in the office that will assert the SCSI reset line and never release it if you do an inquiry before the device is fully initialized. This freezes up the 1542 during boot. This device has an embedded PC in it and it is the power up firmware in the host adapter that loses so badly, making it a little forgiveable on the device vendor's part. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 04:28:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA24487 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:28:53 -0700 Received: from crox.net.kiae.su (crox.net.kiae.su [144.206.130.72]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA24419 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:28:41 -0700 Received: by crox.net.kiae.su id PAA00478; (8.6.9/vak/1.8a) Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:24:00 +0400 To: bde@zeta.org.au Cc: hackers@freebsd.org References: <199508271752.DAA24683@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: Organization: Cronyx Ltd. Date: Tue, 29 Aug 95 15:24:00 +0400 X-Mailer: BML [UNIX Beauty Mail v.1.39] From: vak@cronyx.ru Subject: Re: wd0 detect fails Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From: Bruce Evans > > Cdrom support was added. The following change looks wrong (but works > here): > > diff -c -2 -r1.81 wd.c > *** 1.81 1995/05/16 07:52:04 > --- wd.c 1995/08/19 19:40:54 > *************** > *** 1863,1868 **** > DELAY(10 * 1000); > outb(wdc + wd_ctlr, WDCTL_IDS); > ! if (wdwait(du, WDCS_READY | WDCS_SEEKCMPLT, TIMEOUT) != 0 > ! || (du->dk_error = inb(wdc + wd_error)) != 0x01) > return (1); > outb(wdc + wd_ctlr, WDCTL_4BIT); > --- 1903,1912 ---- > DELAY(10 * 1000); > outb(wdc + wd_ctlr, WDCTL_IDS); > ! if (wdwait(du, 0, TIMEOUT) != 0) > ! return (1); > ! du->dk_status = inb(wdc + wd_status); > ! du->dk_error = inb(wdc + wd_error); > ! if ((du->dk_status & ~(WDCS_READY | WDCS_SEEKCMPLT)) != 0 || > ! du->dk_error != 0x01) > return (1); > outb(wdc + wd_ctlr, WDCTL_4BIT); > > The ATA spec (revision 4c, section B.6) says that the hardware shall set > the status to 0x50 (WDCS_READY | WDCS_SEEKCMPLT) within 31 seconds of > reset. This is what the old code tested for, except for the follow bugs: > > oldbug1) The other status bits (except WDCS_BUSY) aren't required to be > zero. > oldbug2) TIMEOUT is to small. It is 10000 ms but should be 31000 ms. > > The new code only waits for the WDCS_BUSY bit to go low; then it tests > the other bits. This may be OK - the spec seems to say that the status > register is set atomically, and reading the status register again might > fix any timing problems (normally the status register shouldn't be read > twice because of side effects. Reading it twice is is probably a > harmless no-op here). The new code then tests the bits sloppily: > > newbug1) The (WDCS_READY | WDCS_SEEKCMPLT) bits aren't required to be one. > It is being fussier. than the old code about the bits that should be > zero and sloppier about the bits that should be one. I wouldn't have > expected this to matter for drives that meet the spec. I'm not sure that this code is 100% correct. Old version did not work for some CD-ROMs, current one seems to fail for some disks. :-( Unfortunately, ATA specs cannot help much here, just as ATAPI specs cannot help in CD-ROM probing. Manufacturers never read specifications. :-) > The new code also has some changes involving the b_active state. These > seemed OK. If so, what about removing the ATAPI option and enable ATAPI support by default? Serge --- Serge Vakulenko Cronyx Ltd., Moscow Unix consulting and custom programming phone: +7 (095) 939-23-23 FreeBSD support fax: +7 (095) 939-03-00 Relcom network development From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 04:57:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA25420 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:57:11 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA25414 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:57:10 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA29886 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:56:35 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id NAA17504; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:51:46 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA20427; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:51:45 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA18961; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:14:25 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508291114.NAA18961@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: fdisk & disklabel troubles To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:14:24 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508290749.JAA04925@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Aug 29, 95 09:49:29 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 3825 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > * fdisk cannot write the partition table either (or at least, it cannot > be read back!). I tried to set the correct parameters and write to > disk, fdisk did not write any error message but reading again the > partition table shows the same old values. > (cannot do further experiments with working fdisks, but my setting is > easily reproducible). Fdisk works on the wrong partition/slice. Try the patch below. I don't claim this being optimal, but a better approach than the current one. It adds the following features: o either wd0 and sd0 are being probed until one is found not yielding ENXIO (the list is extendable); this represents the typical BIOS boot search sequence (unless somebody has both, wd0 and sd0, but hasn't registered wd0 with the BIOS in order to boot off sd0). o the "/dev/wd0d" crock has been eliminated -- it's plain wrong now o you can provide a `bare disk name' as command line argument, without the leading /dev/r, just like in disklabel(8) > Luckily, fdisk does not kill the system. With disklabel, things seem to I think it didn't do anything since it hasn't even seen the entire disk, only FreeBSD's slice? > be worse: whenever I try to write a label, the system reboots. Bruce has fixed this yesterday. For dedicated disks, you don't even have to run fdisk at all. Here's my standard sequence: Create a disktab entry; for SCSI disks, this one does also contain an `su' (sectors per unit) tag describing the total number of sectors available (slightly more than c*h*s); the `c' partition starts at offset 0 and covers the entire disk (yes, even the supposed fdisk table). disklabel -r -w sd0 disklabel -B sd0 (both commands complain about the invalid partition table; no magic) newfs I'm planning to integrate this into libdisk, so it can be available from sysinstall for the (A)ll FreeBSD option. Note that such a disk should NEVER get in contact with DOS 6.X's fdisk command! Index: fdisk/fdisk.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/src/sbin/i386/fdisk/fdisk.c,v retrieving revision 1.7 diff -u -r1.7 fdisk.c --- 1.7 1995/05/30 06:09:12 +++ fdisk.c 1995/08/29 11:01:30 @@ -27,6 +27,7 @@ #include #include #include +#include #include #include #include @@ -53,7 +54,12 @@ #define SECSIZE 512 -char *disk = "/dev/rwd0d"; +const char *disk; +const char *disks[] = +{ + "/dev/rwd0", "/dev/rsd0", 0 +}; + char *name; struct disklabel disklabel; /* disk parameters */ @@ -215,10 +221,41 @@ } if (argc > 0) - disk = argv[0]; + { + static char realname[12]; + + if(strncmp(argv[0], "/dev", 4) == 0) + disk = argv[0]; + else + { + snprintf(realname, 12, "/dev/r%s", argv[0]); + disk = realname; + } + + if (open_disk(u_flag) < 0) + { + fprintf(stderr, "Cannot open disk %s (%s)\n", + disk, sys_errlist[errno]); + exit(1); + } + } + else + { + int i, rv; - if (open_disk(u_flag) < 0) - exit(1); + for(i = 0; disks[i]; i++) + { + disk = disks[i]; + rv = open_disk(u_flag); + if(rv != -2) break; + } + if(rv < 0) + { + fprintf(stderr, "Cannot open any disk (%s)\n", + sys_errlist[errno]); + exit(1); + } + } printf("******* Working on device %s *******\n",disk); if(u_flag) @@ -465,6 +502,8 @@ fprintf(stderr,"%s: Device %s is not character special\n", name, disk); if ((fd = open(disk, a_flag || u_flag ? O_RDWR : O_RDONLY)) == -1) { + if(errno == ENXIO) + return -2; fprintf(stderr,"%s: Can't open device %s\n", name, disk); return -1; } -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 04:59:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA25528 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:59:55 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA25522 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:59:54 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA29894 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 04:58:54 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id NAA17519 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:51:52 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA20432 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:51:51 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA19053 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:31:50 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508291131.NAA19053@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Clean flag wrong in superblock To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:31:50 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508290436.AAA28292@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Aug 29, 95 00:36:05 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 562 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Coranth Gryphon wrote: > > If there is a definitive list of what is useful to warn people about > (given that people who are not the sysadmin will not be reading the reports > :-), let me know and I'll add that to the list of things to ignore. I would have to re-enable it... Block size mismatches, incorrect block counts come immediately to mind (when somebody is compiling while fsck is running, for example). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 05:04:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA25714 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:04:08 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA25708 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:04:07 -0700 Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA01809; Tue, 29 Aug 95 08:03:35 -0400 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id IAA00606; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:03:33 -0400 Message-Id: <199508291203.IAA00606@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: installing with kermit Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:03:33 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm finally ready to switch from 1.x to 2.0.5. (I was waiting for the July release of 2.1 :-) but I'm not going to wait an more.) Since I don't have a CDROM or a QIC tape drive and I don't want to make a bizillion floppies I thought I'd do what I did with 1.x and bring up 2.0.5 to the point where I'd be able to run kermit and then kermit over the bin distribution. But alas I note that kermit instructions aren't in the 2.0.5 INSTALL any more. Okay, I still have the instructions from the 1.x install, so I should be able to figure that out. I looked in /2.0.5-RELEASE/ports/comms/kermit on ftp.cdrom.com expecting to find the actual kermit binary. Duh, why don't I see it? I see that the 2.0-RELEASE/tools has kermit and the other bits I would need. Is it reasonable to expect that these would work on 2.0.5. My guess is they will -- anyone want to tell me I'm wrong? -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 05:06:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA25787 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:06:54 -0700 Received: from mail.netvision.net.il (mail.NetVision.net.il [194.90.1.6]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA25779 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:06:51 -0700 Received: from gena@NetVision.net.il (gena@burka.NetVision.net.il [194.90.6.15]) by mail.netvision.net.il (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA20592 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:07:41 +0200 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:07:41 +0200 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.3-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD Reply-To: gena@NetVision.net.il X-Face: #v>4HN>#D_"[olq9y`HqTYkLVB89Xy|3')Vs9v58JQ*u-xEJVKY`xa.}E?z0RkLI/P&;BJmi0#u=W0).-Y'J4(dw{"54NhSG|YYZG@[)(`e! >jN#L!~qI5fE-JHS+< Organization: NetVision Ltd. From: Gennady Sorokopud To: Subject: Intel EtherExpress Pro Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! I have Intel EhterExpress PRO network card (ISA, 16 bit) and it's not recognized by ix driver in FreeBSD. This card has 82595 chip and ix driver is based on 82586. Does anyone has any expirience of using this card under FreeBSD, or i need to write a new driver? -------- Gennady B. Sorokopud - System programmer at NetVision Israel. E-Mail: Gennady Sorokopud Homepage: http://www.netvision.net.il/~gena This message was sent at 08/29/95 11:57:34 by XF-Mail From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 05:54:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA26918 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:54:17 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA26912 ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:54:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA22550; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:53:56 -0700 To: Piero@strider.ibenet.it Cc: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help files to translate In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:06:42 +0200." <199508291206.OAA02745@strider.ibenet.it> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:53:56 -0700 Message-ID: <22548.809700836@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Sorry, I thought that was clear! > > Mmm I suggest you post a correction, then, because your original > message was: > > Quoting from Jordan K. Hubbard: > > 2. Look at /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/${LANG}/* and see if you > > can help John create a language-specific section for whichever > > And these files (at least on thud) refer to 2.0.5R. > > > The components required for just the boot floppy are still not nailed > > down, however, so you might end up translating a lot more than you > > need to! > > So, what dou you suggest? Shall I wait for a 'go!' from you? Sorry about the confusion, what I meant by all that is as follows: We have some internationalized stuff already in sysinstall/help/${LANG}, all of which needs to be folded into /usr/src/share/doc/handbook/??? someplace. No further work should take place in help/${LANG}! That whole directory hierarchy under sysinstall is going away! This means that the "install guides" should probably come over first since they bear the closest resemblance to what eventually became part of doc/handbook/install.sgml - you just need to basically copy install.sgml for all the SGML formatting directives and drop your new translated text in (where appropriate to replace the english text) from the old help/${LANG}/install.hlp file. Following that, we should go though every other file in help/${LANG} and figure out where it should go in the handbook. I suppose I should do that job on the english stuff with John first so that the translators sort of have a "script" to follow in doing the others.. That's the general plan, anyway. Once all the stuff is folded over, John and I can "ifdef" the subsections we actually want on the floppy and I'll work in /usr/src/release/Makefile to generate an appropriate tree of html files during the build process. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 05:54:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA26980 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:54:43 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA26973 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:54:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA22561; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:54:34 -0700 To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: installing with kermit In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:03:33 EST." <199508291203.IAA00606@exalt.x.org> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 05:54:33 -0700 Message-ID: <22559.809700873@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm finally ready to switch from 1.x to 2.0.5. (I was waiting for the July > release of 2.1 :-) but I'm not going to wait an more.) Since I don't have > a CDROM or a QIC tape drive and I don't want to make a bizillion floppies > I thought I'd do what I did with 1.x and bring up 2.0.5 to the point where > I'd be able to run kermit and then kermit over the bin distribution. Do you have a ppp connection to the net? That would make this a LOT easier than kermit! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 06:25:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA28214 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:25:16 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA28139 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:22:54 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA20658 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:22:12 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA20783 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:22:12 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA19474 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:09:06 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508291309.PAA19474@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: installing with kermit To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:09:05 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508291203.IAA00606@exalt.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Aug 29, 95 08:03:33 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 405 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > I see that the 2.0-RELEASE/tools has kermit and the other bits I would > need. Is it reasonable to expect that these would work on 2.0.5. My guess > is they will -- anyone want to tell me I'm wrong? Restrictive copyright. :-( -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 07:27:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA04312 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:27:31 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA04303 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:27:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA01048 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:26:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Testers needed for Crynwr/Linux compat parallel TCP/IP code Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:26:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1046.809706415@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk We have got a submission of the patches needed to run crynwr/Linux mode on the lp0 interface from Tim Wilkinson Unfortunately I cannot test it, my cable is in a container somewhere on the Atlantic ocean, and I have no machines to test with either. If somebody wants to test this, you can either grab the diff from PR#516 or send me email and I will forward it. When someone have told me that it works it will be committed. Takers ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 07:30:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA04642 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:30:11 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA04630 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:30:03 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id KAA29388 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:35:12 -0400 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:35:12 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199508291435.KAA29388@healer.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: mail bug Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi. There is a bug in "/usr/bin/mail". It does not pay attention to "Reply-To" headers. I just ran into the case where there was no "From" address but a valid reply-to and it could not find it... Is there a fix pending for a later release? If not, I'll fix it. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 07:45:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA06248 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:45:32 -0700 Received: from austin.asc.slb.com (PIGPEN-CLEAR.AUSTIN.ASC.SLB.COM [163.185.74.6]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA06228 ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:45:28 -0700 From: ygoolama@austin.asc.slb.com Received: from bartles (BARTLES.AUSTIN.ASC.SLB.COM) by austin.asc.slb.com (4.1/relay.950801a) id AA27847; Tue, 29 Aug 95 09:44:58 CDT Received: by bartles (4.1/client.nfs.930922a) id AA03760; Tue, 29 Aug 95 09:44:58 CDT Date: Tue, 29 Aug 95 09:44:58 CDT Message-Id: <9508291444.AA03760@bartles> To: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Can mailing list archives be read by ftp ( via (ding) Gnus) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Greetings, There have been frequent questions as to 'Why mailing list and not newsgroups'. My personal preference is newsgroup since you can quickly graze through it instead of having your mailbox pounded. Some of you may have used (ding) Gnus which is the rewrite of the GNU newsreader in Emacs. I won't go into the features of ding, Suffice to say that it is radical !!. I see one feature of ding as very useful. Ding's mailing list (very high volume) is archived on a ftp site I believe in the form of MH messages. Ding allows one to read the mailing list as a newsgroup. You have to type two keystrokes inside ding to incorporate it as one. It supports NOV databases. My suggestion is that on an experimental basis, one or more of the freebsd mailing lists be archived in the same manner. One can request the author of ding to add some keystroke mappings to bring the archived mailing list as part of the list of subscribed groups. I understand that there are WAIS searchable archives, but with this interface I need to use only one tool. This will allow lurkers (like me) to keep up with the happenings and yet not get swamped by email. FreeBSD gets a much wider audience. A win-win situation. I do not have the technical expertise to set up the archive. I am sure somebody from the ding list can help. Should be a simple procmail recipe. Information about ding is available at http://www.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/ding.html My apologies if this question is inappropiate for this list. I do not as yet subscribe to them. Cheers, Yusuf -- Yusuf Goolamabbas (O) 512-331-3439 Schlumberger Austin Systems Center yusufg@slb.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 07:58:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA07484 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:58:37 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA07474 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:58:34 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA03827; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:58:01 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508291458.HAA03827@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: leo@lisa.rur.com (Leo Papandreou) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, rashid@haven.ios.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Leo Papandreou" at Aug 28, 95 11:25:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1730 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > > > Are you using non-parity memory? As you know, memory errors will not trap > > unless you are using parity memory. If you want to use FreeBSD for anything > > other than home-use, I strongly suggest parity memory. (Get a warrantee!) > > Actually, no triton based board traps parity errors. If you need what itsy- > bitsy comfort parity checks give you then you are going to have to sacrifice > performance and use a neptune based board. And to state my reason for agreement that parity is a ``itsy-bitsy comfort'', think about the fact that 80% of your memory access are going to a L2 cache that has never had parity on it, yet has a same FIT rate as the main memory system. Basically your more likely today to take a single bit error in your cache as you are in main memory :-(. > Personally I think parity memory is a poor investment; assuming I'm clear > on the techical details, once the P6 becomes a commodity item (real soon > now) the next motherboard you buy will want ECC memory, anyway. Its neat > the way this industry creates its own demand, eh? :-). Yes, but unfortanelty, ECC memory, though being supported by next generation chip sets, will be, IMHO, a rare thing in the PC market simply due to clone MB manufactures who will see it as an additional cost to them. > The upside to this is that financial institutions and similiar nervous > nellies will migrate their mission-critical servers to cost-effective > intel platforms whereupon demand for FreeBSD will go through the roof. > Now is the time to buy WC stock. > > :-) > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 08:05:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA08043 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:05:21 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA08015 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:05:11 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HUNIH7TCS00009DI@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:04:17 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id RAA14641 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:17:18 +0200 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:17:18 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: cvs lists To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Message-id: <199508291517.RAA14641@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For some reason beyond my knowledge I didn't receive any commit mails in nearly two weeks now. Asking majordomo I'm told that I don't belong to any cvs lists. Anyone knowing what had happened at freefall that this could occur? I'm now trying to get subscribed again but a first approach sending majordomo a bunch of subscribe lines didn't seem to work. Would sending subscribe cvs-all name@host be sufficient to get all commit mails or would I have to subscribe to each single list? I remember cvs-all having been a 'dead' list sometime back. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 09:49:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA14624 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 09:49:11 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA14618 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 09:49:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA26125 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 09:48:35 -0700 Prev-Resent: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 09:48:35 -0700 Prev-Resent: "hackers@freebsd.org " Received: from throck.cdrom.com (root@throck.cdrom.com [192.216.222.225]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA25935 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:39:23 -0700 Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by throck.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA00275 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:37:15 -0700 Received: (from dfr@localhost) by minnow.render.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA23016; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:40:16 +0100 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:40:13 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Interesting message in -current, FYI.. In-Reply-To: <199508291409.HAA25320@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-To: hackers@freebsd.org Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 09:48:35 -0700 Resent-Message-ID: <26123.809714915@time.cdrom.com> Resent-From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > On my machine "throck", sharing filesystems with "time" - another current > machine running the NFS v3 stuff: > > Aug 29 02:00:12 throck /kernel: fhtovp: file start miss 872415232 vs 36 > I think this is a message from the (broken) cd9660 filehandle code. Someone ought to look at this but I don't currently have the time :-( -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 251 4411 FAX: +44 171 251 0939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 09:52:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA14808 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 09:52:44 -0700 Received: from linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw (linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw [140.113.235.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA14800 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 09:52:36 -0700 Received: (from jdli@localhost) by linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA15721 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:50:43 +0800 From: Chien-Ta Lee Message-Id: <199508291650.AAA15721@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw> Subject: Solution : How to read mailing-list via newsgroups To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:50:43 +0800 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3032 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi : I am now reading FreeBSD mailing-list via newsgroups, but this is a small local news server setup myself. Here is a little perl script to "post" mails onto newsgroups, we call it "mail-post.pl". How to use this ? 1. create freebsd mailing-list newsgroups 2. add new lines into /etc/aliases, like this .. freebsd-cvs-all: "|/usr/lib/news/bin/mail-post.pl mailing.freebsd.cvs" freebsd-announce: "|/usr/lib/news/bin/mail-post.pl mailing.freebsd.announce" (freebsd-announce is the alias to receive mails, you should registe freebsd-announce@hostname to majordomo server; mailing.freebsd.announce is the newsgroup name) Then you will be able to read mailing-list via newsgroups. :) Problem: I use tin to read news, while I press "r" to reply posts, it will NOT forward my reply mails to mailing-list, only the author of that post can receive ur reply. Add CC: by hand seems no use. :( Maybe tin needs a hack to do the forwarding. (at least when I add CC: by hand) Any idea ? Problem: Use tin to post on the mailing-list newsgroup will NOT be sent to mailing-list. It's ok I think. -------< mail-post.pl >-------- #!/usr/bin/perl $ENV{"NNTPSERVER"}="news.csie.nctu.edu.tw"; ($program = $0) =~ s%.*/%%; ( $version ) = $] =~ /(\d+\.\d+).*\nPatch level/; die "$program: requires at least version 3 of perl\n" if $version < 3; $inews = "/usr/lib/news/inews"; $inews = "/usr/lib/news/inews" unless -x $inews; die "$program: can't find inews\n" unless -x $inews; $iopts = "-h"; if ($#ARGV < 0) { $newsgroup = "linux.test"; # Default test newsgroup if there's none supplied. # we'll expect the newsgroup line in the body } elsif ($#ARGV == 0) { $newsgroup = $ARGV[0]; } else { die "usage: $program [newsgroup]\n"; } # in case inews dumps core or something crazy $SIG{'PIPE'} = "plumber"; sub plumber { die "$program: \"$inews\" died prematurely!\n"; } open (INEWS, "| $inews $iopts") || die "$program: can't run $inews\n"; # header munging loop while () { last if /^$/; # transform real from: line back to icky style s/^From:\s+(.*) <(.*)>/From: $2 ($1)/; # transform from_ line to path header; also works locally s/^From\s+(\S+)@(\S+).*/Path: $2!$1/ || s/^From\s+(\S+)[^@]*$/Path: $1\n/; print INEWS if /^(From|Subject):/i; $saw_subject |= ( $+ eq 'Subject' ); } warn "$program: didn't expect newsgroup in both headers and ARGV\n" if $newsgroup && $saw_newsgroup; die "$program: didn't get newsgroup from either headers or ARGV\n" unless $newsgroup || $saw_newsgroup; printf INEWS "Newsgroups: %s\n", $newsgroup if $newsgroup; print INEWS "Subject: Untitled\n" unless $saw_subject; print INEWS "\n"; print INEWS while ; # gobble rest of message close INEWS; exit $?; ------< CUT CUT CUT >------- -- 李 建 達 (Adonis) 交大資工 Mail: jdli@csie.nctu.edu.tw From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 10:24:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA15781 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:24:36 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15775 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:24:35 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA17165 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:23:43 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:23:43 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508291723.KAA17165@ref.tfs.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: make install broken Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk make install of the current tree falls over with: make install umask 022; cd /usr/src/share/zoneinfo; zic -d /usr/share/zoneinfo -p America/New_York -L /dev/null -y /usr/src/share/zoneinfo/obj/yearistype africa antarctica asia australasia etcetera europe factory northamerica southamerica systemv "europe", line 717: invalid time of day "europe", line 718: invalid time of day "europe", line 719: invalid time of day "europe", line 760: invalid time of day "europe", line 761: invalid time of day "europe", line 762: invalid time of day "europe", line 763: invalid time of day "europe", line 764: invalid time of day "europe", line 765: invalid time of day *** Error code 1 anyone see a problem here.. the lines it's complaining about seem the same as others that have succeeded.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 10:25:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA15851 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:25:40 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15842 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:25:34 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA17173 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:24:41 -0700 Received: from sun-lamp.pc.cs.cmu.edu (SUN-LAMP.PC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.194.45]) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA16741 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:00:44 -0700 Received: from pain.lcs.mit.edu (pain.lcs.mit.edu [128.52.46.239]) by sun-lamp.pc.cs.cmu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id IAA25333; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:55:48 -0400 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pain.lcs.mit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA04531; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:11:36 -0400 Received: from fearsome.tjls.com by pain.lcs.mit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA04499; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:59:05 -0400 Received: (from tls@localhost) by fearsome.tjls.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA29322; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:58:41 -0400 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:58:41 -0400 From: Thor Lancelot Simon Message-Id: <199508291058.GAA29322@fearsome.tjls.com> To: current-users@NetBSD.ORG, netbsd-users@NetBSD.ORG, port-i386@NetBSD.ORG Subject: *READ THIS* snapshot fixes security hole *READ THIS* X-Loop: netbsd-users@NetBSD.ORG Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Re the recent 8LGM advisory about a severe security hole involving a buffer overrun in syslog(3) on essentially all modern Unix and Unix-like systems -- By 9AM a set of -current binaries for the i386 should be available which fix the specific problem the 8LGM advisory addresses, and one other related problem which we noticed while reading the code after receiving the 8LGM advisory. You can get them from ftp.wasabi.com. Be aware that some of us who've looked at the problem think there may well be some number of similar problems elsewhere in libc and in other libraries; these problems, if they exist, are probably in a great number of other operating systems as well. I'll be preparing binary snapshots as other holes are found and fixed, and making source patches available. I will try to make a (somewhat awkward) binary patch kit for NetBSD/i386 1.0 available as well, probably by a bit later this morning. Perry Metzger should be sending a (unpretty) patch to libc/gen/syslog.c to this list either as I write this or sometime soon; we hope that the core team will integrate it as soon as they're awake. :-) Applying this patch and doing a *complete* build and install will fix your problem; you could also try to just rebuild libc and any statically-linked executables that use syslog(), but that's likely to be confusing and you _don't_ want to screw up. You can get the binaries from ftp.wasabi.com. This is *not* any kind of official core team snapshot or release, and anything that's broken is my fault. I'm doing this snapshot to try to help other NetBSD users avoid getting burned -- the 8LGM advisory is not an explicit how-to, but a quick examination of the code is all that's really needed to see how to exploit this hole. Many thanks to John Hawkinson at MIT, Perry Metzger (like me, at Wasabi) and Eric Volpe and Alexis Rosen at Panix for the skull sweat to come up with the syslog.c patch and make sure it works. No thanks at all to programmers who shove external data through sprintf() and friends -- ! Thor P.S. Anyone distributing statically-linked binaries should relink them ASAP. packages containing statically-linked binaries should probably get pulled from the FTP site until their creators can relink them or ensure that they don't use syslog(3). From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 10:45:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA16625 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:45:49 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA16619 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:45:47 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA16598; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:39:46 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508291739.KAA16598@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: precompiled Mosaic To: thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (Thomas Gellekum) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:39:46 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, imb@scgt.oz.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508290818.KAA09637@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> from "Thomas Gellekum" at Aug 29, 95 10:18:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 753 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What's the status of the `almost finished' free Motif clone one of > the more prolific participants of these mailing lists keeps teasing > us with? If you mean me, I never claimed more than 20% interface coverage, enough to run some O'Reilly and Young examples and compile and link (but not run) all the Motif code on the net that doesn't make use of undocumented Motif internals. And I've been letting it sit; I have two outstanding requests for it (make that three now), and it needs the resource conversion code put back together (it is currently ripped apart) to make it usable even for alpha stuff again. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 10:53:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA16942 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:53:57 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA16936 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:53:49 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA14302; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:52:40 +0800 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:52:39 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Mike Pritchard cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) In-Reply-To: <199508282131.QAA27212@mpp.minn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 28 Aug 1995, Mike Pritchard wrote: > > Since the subject of PID_MAX has come up, what is the reason > for having it set to 30,000? That isn't really that large of > a value, especially on a busy system. How about raising it to > something like 90,000? Even if you had 1000 processes running on one system, that still leaves 29000 pids free. Even forking off a new process 10 times a second will still take you over 45 minutes to cycle through 29000 pids... what's the point of having >30000 PID_MAX? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 11:04:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA17410 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:04:00 -0700 Received: from mpp.minn.net (mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA17404 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:03:56 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA02791; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:02:33 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199508291802.NAA02791@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) To: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw (Brian Tao) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:02:33 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Aug 30, 95 01:52:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 973 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Tao wrote: > > On Mon, 28 Aug 1995, Mike Pritchard wrote: > > > > Since the subject of PID_MAX has come up, what is the reason > > for having it set to 30,000? That isn't really that large of > > a value, especially on a busy system. How about raising it to > > something like 90,000? > > Even if you had 1000 processes running on one system, that still > leaves 29000 pids free. Even forking off a new process 10 times a > second will still take you over 45 minutes to cycle through 29000 > pids... what's the point of having >30000 PID_MAX? In the past I've been involved in some projects where pid collisions due to pid wrap was a problem. I'm not currently doing anything that this is causing any problems with, but seeing the low limit reminded me of those past projects. In that case, the longer you could keep from re-using pids, the better. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@mpp.minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 11:10:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA17773 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:10:37 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA17766 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:10:34 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02459 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:15:48 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199508291815.OAA02459@ns1.win.net> Subject: pwd_mkdb is intense To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:15:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 576 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk We have a rather large password file and I can hear the system groaning whenever someone changes their password. Top shows the process go to about 20-30% of the P90 for around 2 or 3 minutes. Swap space in use increases by around 15% during this period. chpass/passwd all pass the buck to pwd_mkdb which recreates the entire file. Is there a utility which updates the various keys in the db for just one particular user id? Would the db routines that pwd_mkdb calls actually support the in-place update of a particular record? :-) Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 11:29:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA18402 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:29:45 -0700 Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18394 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:29:34 -0700 Received: from mocha.eng.umd.edu (mocha.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.16]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id OAA18474; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:29:01 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by mocha.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id OAA07806; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:29:01 -0400 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:28:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make install broken In-Reply-To: <199508291723.KAA17165@ref.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Julian Elischer wrote: > > make install of the current tree falls over with: > make install > umask 022; cd /usr/src/share/zoneinfo; zic -d /usr/share/zoneinfo -p America/New_York -L /dev/null -y /usr/src/share/zoneinfo/obj/yearistype africa antarctica asia australasia etcetera europe factory northamerica southamerica systemv > "europe", line 717: invalid time of day > "europe", line 718: invalid time of day > "europe", line 719: invalid time of day > "europe", line 760: invalid time of day > "europe", line 761: invalid time of day > "europe", line 762: invalid time of day > "europe", line 763: invalid time of day > "europe", line 764: invalid time of day > "europe", line 765: invalid time of day > *** Error code 1 > > > anyone see a problem here.. > the lines it's complaining about seem the same as others that > have succeeded.. When upgrading from 2.0.5R, you have to do zic first, and install it, then do the rest of the make world. You don't have to go that far, just go install the new zic, then complete the make install. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 11:33:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA18503 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:33:10 -0700 Received: from wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu [128.171.60.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18497 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:33:07 -0700 Received: by wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA093951158; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:32:38 -1000 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:32:38 -1000 (HST) From: Terrence T Ozaki Subject: Re: freebsd To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I would like to know why after installing freebsd 2.0.5 (min.) did the system start up an I can't use passwd and a whole lot of other commands. and it doesn't recognize any of my modems as com ports? HELP!!!!!!!!! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 11:46:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA19054 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:46:21 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA19048 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:46:19 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA17364; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:44:36 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508291844.LAA17364@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: fdisk & disklabel troubles To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508290749.JAA04925@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Aug 29, 95 09:49:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 5738 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk OK I originally hacked fdisk together from the MACH utility "DISKUTIL" > > After spending a few hours on the above programs, I have more > details which I hope somebody can clarify. I am starting with a > fresh, full 950726-SNAPSHOT installation on wd0 (entire disk for > freebsd) and an aborted install on wd2 (entire disk for freebsd, > but just did the partition and newfs). > > I see that: > > * fdisk cannot read a valid partition table from either disk. The > "bios idea" of the disk, as printed by fdisk, shows one cylinder less > than the real size. seems to work here? below, I add a third slice to take up the 31 sectors that dos left before itself. I then dump out the slices, and see that the new slice is in fact added to the disk.. jules: {8} ./fdisk -u /dev/rwd0 ******* Working on device /dev/rwd0 ******* parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=985 heads=13 sectors/track=32 (416 blks/cyl) parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=985 heads=13 sectors/track=32 (416 blks/cyl) Do you want to change our idea of what BIOS thinks ? [n] n Note: BIOS sector numbering always starts with sector 1 Information from DOS bootblock is: The data for partition 0 is: sysid 4,(Primary DOS with 16 bit FAT) start 32, size 49888 (24 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 1; end: cyl 119/ sector 32/ head 12 Do you want to change it? [n] n The data for partition 1 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 49920, size 359840 (175 Meg), flag 80 beg: cyl 120/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 984/ sector 32/ head 12 Do you want to change it? [n] n The data for partition 2 is: Do you want to change it? [n] y Supply a decimal value for "sysid" [0] 165 Supply a decimal value for "start" [0] 1 Supply a decimal value for "size" [0] 31 Explicitly specifiy beg/end address ? [n] n sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 1, size 31 (0 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 2/ head 0; end: cyl 0/ sector 32/ head 0 Are we happy with this entry? [n] y The data for partition 3 is: Do you want to change it? [n] Do you want to change the active partition? [n] We haven't changed the partition table yet. This is your last chance. parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=985 heads=13 sectors/track=32 (416 blks/cyl) parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=985 heads=13 sectors/track=32 (416 blks/cyl) Information from DOS bootblock is: 0: sysid 4,(Primary DOS with 16 bit FAT) start 32, size 49888 (24 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 1; end: cyl 119/ sector 32/ head 12 1: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 49920, size 359840 (175 Meg), flag 80 beg: cyl 120/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 984/ sector 32/ head 12 2: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 1, size 31 (0 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 2/ head 0; end: cyl 0/ sector 32/ head 0 3: Should we write new partition table? [n] y ioctl DIOCWLABEL: Operation not supported by device jules: {8} ./fdisk /dev/rwd0 ******* Working on device /dev/rwd0 ******* parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=985 heads=13 sectors/track=32 (416 blks/cyl) parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=985 heads=13 sectors/track=32 (416 blks/cyl) Note: BIOS sector numbering always starts with sector 1 Information from DOS bootblock is: The data for partition 0 is: sysid 4,(Primary DOS with 16 bit FAT) start 32, size 49888 (24 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 1; end: cyl 119/ sector 32/ head 12 The data for partition 1 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 49920, size 359840 (175 Meg), flag 80 beg: cyl 120/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 984/ sector 32/ head 12 The data for partition 2 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 1, size 31 (0 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 2/ head 0; end: cyl 0/ sector 32/ head 0 The data for partition 3 is: jules: {9} > > * fdisk cannot write the partition table either (or at least, it cannot > be read back!). I tried to set the correct parameters and write to > disk, fdisk did not write any error message but reading again the > partition table shows the same old values. > (cannot do further experiments with working fdisks, but my setting is > easily reproducible). see above getting ready: jules: {18} sh MAKEDEV wd0s3{a,b,c,d,e,f,g} > > > * (BTW, the "usage" line of fdisk shows a "-r" flag which does not > exist. hmmm mea culpa > > Luckily, fdisk does not kill the system. With disklabel, things seem to > be worse: whenever I try to write a label, the system reboots. > > As a reference, here are the different ideas of the disks: > > REAL: 1010 cyl, 12 hd, 55 sec, total 666.600 sectors > fdisk: 1009 cyl, 12 hd, 55 sec, part. start 1, size 665.939 > beg.: cyl.0 sec.2 hd.0 > end: cyl.1009 sec.1 hd.0 > disklabel: 1009 cyl, 12 hd, 55 sec, size 666.545 > > > REAL: 1057 cyl, 16 hd, 63 sec, total 1.065.456 sectors > fdisk: 1056 cyl, 16 hd, 63 sec, part. start 1, size 1.064.447 > beg.: cyl.0 sec.2 hd.0 > end: cyl.32 sec.1 hd.0 > disklabel: 1056 cyl, 16 hd, 63 sec, size 1.065.393 ok I'll try: I'll try put a label on the new little part I just made.. getting ready: jules: {18} sh MAKEDEV wd0s3{a,b,c,d,e,f,g} jules: {19} disklabel -R /dev/rwd0s3 /tmp/xxx hmmm yep, it hangs the system.... I guess I'll need to go have a look at that.. :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 12:31:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA19916 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:31:12 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19906 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:31:04 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA01058 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:30:47 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA25485 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:30:46 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA29604 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:12:27 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508291912.VAA29604@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: cvs lists To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:12:25 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199508291517.RAA14641@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at Aug 29, 95 05:17:18 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 610 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > For some reason beyond my knowledge I didn't receive any commit mails > in nearly two weeks now. Asking majordomo I'm told that I don't belong > to any cvs lists. > > Anyone knowing what had happened at freefall that this could occur? The Great Mailinglist Kick. Jonathan has issued a warning for it, but it also took me nearly a week until i've noticed that i've been dropped off -hackers (but not of -current). Resubscribe. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 12:31:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA19937 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:31:20 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19913 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:31:12 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA01053 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:30:44 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA25477 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:30:43 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA25917 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:00:14 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508291900.VAA25917@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Testers needed for Crynwr/Linux compat parallel TCP/IP code To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:00:13 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1046.809706415@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Aug 29, 95 07:26:55 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 517 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > We have got a submission of the patches needed to run crynwr/Linux > mode on the lp0 interface from Tim Wilkinson I've also sent out the code to two or three guys. Haven't got any response since, but i could dig out their email addresses from my archive. I haven't got complaints that it didn't work either. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 12:37:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA20536 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:37:19 -0700 Received: from cs.sunysb.edu (sbcs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.15]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA20529 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:37:12 -0700 Received: from sbgrad9.csdept (sbgrad9.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.2.29]) by cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA20135 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:37:10 -0400 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:37:10 -0400 From: Michael Vernick Message-Id: <199508291937.PAA20135@cs.sunysb.edu> Received: by sbgrad9.csdept (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08723; Tue, 29 Aug 95 15:35:44 EDT To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Kernel won't run, CMAP busy Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to run a customized kernel. (I've written some custom code that benchmarks the SCSI disks). After detecting 'ed0' I get a panic error 'pmap_copy_page: CMAP busy' and the kernel reboots itself. The kernel however runs on another machine. The difference is that the first machine is connected to 2 different networks and acts as a router. The second machine simply sits on 1 network. Any ideas? Thanks, mv. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 12:54:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA21944 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:54:15 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA21938 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:53:59 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA31110; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 05:49:12 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 05:49:12 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508291949.FAA31110@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: fdisk & disklabel troubles Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I am having a hard time in understanding/using the parameters used >in the disk-maintainance utilities (fdisk, disklabel, sysinstall >etc.) since the introduction of slices (tried this on both >2.0.5-RELEASE and the 950726-SNAPSHOT). Sigh. >* fdisk cannot read a valid partition table from either disk. The > "bios idea" of the disk, as printed by fdisk, shows one cylinder less > than the real size. fdisk is limited and broken, but operates the much same as before the slice changes. There is no guarantee that it will get the BIOS geometry right in either case: before: it just prints the values in the label. These are at best what you typed in for the label and are often different from the BIOS geometry. after: it just prints the values in the dummy label for the whole disk. The slice code attempts to guess the geometry based on values in the partition table. This often works, except for the number of cylinders which was usually the physical number of cylinders (bug fixed in -current). If the partition table is empty, then guessing can't work and the geomtry is usually the geometry reported by the drive. In both cases you need to learn the BIOS geometry in another way and change fdisk's defaults if they are wrong. >* fdisk cannot write the partition table either (or at least, it cannot > be read back!). I tried to set the correct parameters and write to > disk, fdisk did not write any error message but reading again the > partition table shows the same old values. > (cannot do further experiments with working fdisks, but my setting is > easily reproducible). The geometry can't be changed directly using fdisk; it only writes the partition table. Changes to partition should stick. Changes to the partition table may affect the guessed geometry, but the driver won't change the guessed geometry until all minors on the drive are closed and one is opened. If the drive has root or active(?) swap on it, all minors won't be closed until reboot and the guessed geometry won't change. fdisk writes the partition table without informing the driver about the changes. This it is not guaranteed that the driver state is consistent with the disk state. You should boot from a floppy or from the network or somewhere if you want to run fdisk on the root disk. Or change a little at a time (for safety) and reboot to see the changes. >* (BTW, the "usage" line of fdisk shows a "-r" flag which does not > exist. BTW2, there is an undocumented "-a" flag that allows changing only the active partition. >Luckily, fdisk does not kill the system. With disklabel, things seem to >be worse: whenever I try to write a label, the system reboots. 950726-SNAPSHOT probably has a bug amplified on 950725 that causes `disklabel -e' to reboot for all changes. The bug was fairly harmless in 1.0...2.0. >As a reference, here are the different ideas of the disks: >REAL: 1010 cyl, 12 hd, 55 sec, total 666.600 sectors >fdisk: 1009 cyl, 12 hd, 55 sec, part. start 1, size 665.939 > beg.: cyl.0 sec.2 hd.0 > end: cyl.1009 sec.1 hd.0 >disklabel: 1009 cyl, 12 hd, 55 sec, size 666.545 >REAL: 1057 cyl, 16 hd, 63 sec, total 1.065.456 sectors >fdisk: 1056 cyl, 16 hd, 63 sec, part. start 1, size 1.064.447 > beg.: cyl.0 sec.2 hd.0 > end: cyl.32 sec.1 hd.0 >disklabel: 1056 cyl, 16 hd, 63 sec, size 1.065.393 These have the same bugs: 1) the ending head and sector doesn't give the BIOS geometry. The ending head must be the same as the BIOS number of heads less one and the ending sector must be the same as the BIOS number of sectors for at least one slice. fdisk should enforce this for the FreeBSD slice (if any), but it doesn't, so the user is responsible for it. This requirement hasn't changed since 386BSD-0.1. 2) the size is one sector too large, or perhaps one cylinder less one sector too small, so the slice extends one sector into the cylinder after the last, or perhaps it just ends in a strange place. Bug 1) is sort of a side effect of this. These bugs now only affect the guessing of the geometry. The geometry is only used as a default for fdisk. Before the slice changes, they would have stopped booting except for simple partition tables above where the FreeBSD partition starts on the first track. >I also tried to use /stand/sysinstall for formatting the disk, but >without luck: the Write option in the partition editor does not Sysinstall is much better than fdisk, but it isn't really suitable for use except at compile time, and it is subject to the same problems with guessed geometries as fdisk. >So: does anyone know of a safe way to fdisk/disklabel a disk on 2.0.5 >and newer releases ? I have already lost the partition table on two >disks, and have killed the data on the disks by trying to fix them with >fdisk &C. And now I am really scared on installing 2.0.5 rather than >snap950322 on newer machines! fdisk: same as before. Be careful. disklabel: as documented in disklabel(8), but not as documented in old 386BSD and FreeBSD documentation and folklore. The first FreeBSD slice is the whole disk from disklabel's point of view, so the 'c' partition must begin at offset 0 and extend to the end of the (virtual) disk, the 'd' partition isn't special, and partitions outside of the (virtual) disk don't make sense. It's relatively difficult to kill the data with disklabel. Avoid using `disklabel -e' in SNAPs where it causes a panic. Use `disklabel -r -w' instead. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 13:02:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA22252 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:02:31 -0700 Received: from server.netcraft.co.uk (server.netcraft.co.uk [194.72.238.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA22226 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:02:15 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by server.netcraft.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA18530; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:01:06 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199508292001.VAA18530@server.netcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: UNIFIED FILE SYSTEM PATCHES, PLEASE APPLY To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:01:05 +0100 (BST) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9508260009.AA13394@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Aug 25, 95 06:09:40 pm Reply-to: paul@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 926 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to Terry Lambert who said > > > These patches sound interesting and I plan to integrate most or all of them > > as soon as I get some time to do it. > > BTW, only one mailing list need be mentioned (probably hackers). > > I wasn't sure who read what list -- sorry. > > Maybe with the "list expansion extravaganza" going on, we should have a > "patches@freebsd.org" used only to send patches/patch-notupload-notification? You could probably use send-pr to get patches stored somewhere that'll make sure they're dealt with eventually :-) It's better than posting to a list where they might get forgotten about forever :-( Someone try it and tell me what wasn't ideal about the procedure and I'll look at improving it. -- Paul Richards, Bluebird Computer Systems. FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, http://www.freebsd.org/~paul Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 1222 457651 (home) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 13:35:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA22998 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:35:03 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA22989 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:34:53 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA32192; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 06:31:23 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 06:31:23 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508292031.GAA32192@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, vak@cronyx.ru Subject: Re: Help installing IDE CD-ROM driver Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> In 2.2-current, MAKEDEV only creates the 'c' partition. This is >> probably bogus. The 'c' partition is actually the 'a' partition (it has >> minor 0). This is certainly bogus. The wcd*) case is similar to the >> cd*|mcd*|scd*) and should be merged. >There is no disklabel support in wcd driver, that's why >there is no /dev/wcd0a device. Is it really needed? Not really, but it simplifies the device naming scheme and all other cdrom drivers support it. spec_read() and spec_write() use DIOCGPART to attempt to get a reasonable i/o size for block devices, but this only works for partitions of type FS_BSDFFS (a fixed default of BLKDEV_IOSIZE == 2048 == TOO_SMALL is used if DIOCGPART isn't supported or the partition type isn't ffs). The DIOC* ioctl support is very easy using slices. Just put this near the start of wcdioctl(): error = dsioctl(...); if (error != -1) return (error); See wd.c... I suppose it would be harder of the stratgy routine was locked properly. I plan to add a ds routine to build dummy labels and slice tables. It doesn't need many more args than the size of the disk. The driver should fill in miscellaneous interesting stuff such as the device name. dscheck() should be used to check for accesses beyond the disk. This would help ensure a consistent handling of b_cylinder (aka b_cylin, aka b_resid; it is no longer used), b_pblkno, and EOF. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 13:42:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA23307 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:42:58 -0700 Received: from strider.ibenet.it ([194.179.130.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA23269 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:42:11 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA01105; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:46:35 +0200 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199508292046.WAA01105@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: freebsd To: ozaki@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (Terrence T Ozaki) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:46:35 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Terrence T Ozaki" at Aug 29, 95 08:32:38 am Reply-To: Piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 701 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Terrence T Ozaki (Tue Aug 29 20:32:38 1995): > I would like to know why after installing freebsd 2.0.5 (min.) did the > system start up an I can't use passwd and a whole lot of other commands. > and it doesn't recognize any of my modems as com ports? HELP!!!!!!!!! Maybe a more verbose description can help in tracing down your problems. I also think you can try to send any question to questions@freebsd.org before sending to hackers@freebsd.org. Regards, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 13:54:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA23791 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:54:20 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA23783 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:54:10 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA00059; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 06:51:12 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 06:51:12 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508292051.GAA00059@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, vak@cronyx.ru Subject: Re: wd0 detect fails Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [old] >> ! if (wdwait(du, WDCS_READY | WDCS_SEEKCMPLT, TIMEOUT) != 0 >> ! || (du->dk_error = inb(wdc + wd_error)) != 0x01) [new] >> ! if (wdwait(du, 0, TIMEOUT) != 0) >> ! return (1); >> ! du->dk_status = inb(wdc + wd_status); >> ! du->dk_error = inb(wdc + wd_error); >> ! if ((du->dk_status & ~(WDCS_READY | WDCS_SEEKCMPLT)) != 0 || >> ! du->dk_error != 0x01) >I'm not sure that this code is 100% correct. >Old version did not work for some CD-ROMs, >current one seems to fail for some disks. :-( >Unfortunately, ATA specs cannot help much here, >just as ATAPI specs cannot help in CD-ROM probing. >Manufacturers never read specifications. :-) A user reported that the status was 0x52 for the old code (0x02 = IDX). The spec says 0x50 :-). We could ignore some bits, perhaps all except 0x51, but the old code essentially ignored all except 0x50 (and BUSY). Why did it fail exactly? We could ignore failures from reset, at least in the probe, and depend on the results of WDCC_DIAGNOSE. >> The new code also has some changes involving the b_active state. These >> seemed OK. >If so, what about removing the ATAPI option and enable ATAPI >support by default? I only understand the !ATAPI case. How hard would it be to make the atapi driver an lkm? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 14:50:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA25638 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:50:21 -0700 Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [199.98.84.132]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25632 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:50:19 -0700 Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA04918 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:50:18 -0500 From: Bob Willcox Message-Id: <199508292150.QAA04918@luke.pmr.com> Subject: Does fdisk work? To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (freebsd-hackers) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:50:18 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 544 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does fdisk work for others? I have not been able to get it to write anything on the disk. I run it with the -i flag and answer all the questions in the affirmative, yet upon running it again (or disklabel) the disk still has no valid partion table (at least not what I specified). This on both a 2.0.5R and a 950726-SNAP level system. All I can figure is that either fdisk is terminally broken or I am missing something very fundamental about its use. :-(( Thanks, -- Bob Willcox bob@luke.pmr.com (or obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net) Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 14:55:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA25826 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:55:17 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25813 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:55:03 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA02386; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 07:49:56 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 07:49:56 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508292149.HAA02386@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: leo@lisa.rur.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, rashid@haven.ios.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >And to state my reason for agreement that parity is a ``itsy-bitsy comfort'', >think about the fact that 80% of your memory access are going to a L2 >cache that has never had parity on it, yet has a same FIT rate as the >main memory system. Basically your more likely today to take a single >bit error in your cache as you are in main memory :-(. Is there anything to detect or correct errors in the registers or control logic? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 15:16:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA26492 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:16:28 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA26484 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:16:25 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA27856 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:17:22 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199508292217.SAA27856@haven.ios.com> Subject: Chasing the ghost (DDB usage tips). To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:17:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 792 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, Looks like the lockups continue on that ASUS P54Tp4 motherboards. This time the PC is pretty cool ( I mean the temperature) , there is extra fan inside especially for those Barracuda HDs, but system still locks up . The console driver still works for a while after the locking so I think I'll able to run the DDB and kinda figure out what causes the system to lock. So if any1 here can provide any tip on DDB usage - that would be great. Man page is not too helpful in this sense, for example , how can I find if the SCSI driver is fine and is not locked ? If it is locked - in which routine and what parameters were passed to it ... How to find the processes waiting for the resources and find the reason for them to be in the wait state ? Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 15:23:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA26722 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:23:23 -0700 Received: from chrome.onramp.net (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA26715 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:23:20 -0700 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.onramp.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA06678; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:18:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199508292218.RAA06678@chrome.onramp.net> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.onramp.net: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: vak@cronyx.ru, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: wd0 detect fails In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 06:51:12 +1000." <199508292051.GAA00059@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Reply-To: jdl@chromatic.com Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:18:43 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Apparently, Bruce Evans scribbled: > [ code ] > > >I'm not sure that this code is 100% correct. > >Old version did not work for some CD-ROMs, > >current one seems to fail for some disks. :-( > > >Unfortunately, ATA specs cannot help much here, > >just as ATAPI specs cannot help in CD-ROM probing. > >Manufacturers never read specifications. :-) > > A user reported that the status was 0x52 for the old code (0x02 = IDX). > The spec says 0x50 :-). > > We could ignore some bits, perhaps all except 0x51, but the old code > essentially ignored all except 0x50 (and BUSY). Why did it fail exactly? With minor cable finagling here, I can easily, :-(, construct a failing probe case. Would you like to go a few rounds with me on this one? I was getting the CDROM detect failure when trying to put the CDROM as the only device of the wdc1 controller. (The wdc0 had either 1 or 2 drives on it.) Is this the failure mode you were interested in? > >If so, what about removing the ATAPI option and enable ATAPI > >support by default? Cool! jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 15:59:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA27532 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:59:36 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA27509 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:59:26 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA05012; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:56:12 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:56:12 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508292256.IAA05012@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, jdl@chrome.onramp.net Subject: Re: wd0 detect fails Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, vak@cronyx.ru Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> A user reported that the status was 0x52 for the old code (0x02 = IDX). >> The spec says 0x50 :-). >> >> We could ignore some bits, perhaps all except 0x51, but the old code >> essentially ignored all except 0x50 (and BUSY). Why did it fail exactly? >With minor cable finagling here, I can easily, :-(, construct a failing >probe case. Would you like to go a few rounds with me on this one? >I was getting the CDROM detect failure when trying to put the CDROM >as the only device of the wdc1 controller. (The wdc0 had either 1 or 2 >drives on it.) >Is this the failure mode you were interested in? It's not very surprising that it fails with no drives. I would expect both wdprobe() and the diagnostics command to succeed unless the timeout is too short (it is too short - should be 31000 ms). But it wouldn't be surprising for the diagnostics commands to report that both drives aren't their - something different from an IDE drive is there. Then wdprobe() would fail, so wdattach() wouldn't be called, so atapi_ attach() wouldn't be called, although atapi_attach() might work if it was called. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 16:04:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA27829 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:04:12 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.84.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA27822 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:04:09 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id RAA08386 for freebsd.org!hackers; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:59:18 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA09710; 29 Aug 95 13:32:36 CDT (Tue) Received: by subsonic.nmti.com; id AA15937; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:58:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:58:58 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9508291858.AA15937@subsonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm helping a bloke here set up FreeBSD, and man the serial ports are hard to explain. Why, oh why, is the CU device for "ttyd0" called "cuaa0" instead of "cuad0"? Or making it ttya0? I understand that going to alpha names makes some sense, but it really doesn't look good when they're so inconsistent. The old names had the virtue of making sense "oh, sio is the serial I/O driver...". For 2.1, can we go back to at least making the tty and cua devices have the same identifiers? Oh yeh, the docs should have something in big bold letters about linking /dev/mouse to /dev/cuaa0 under whatever name it ends up as... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 16:33:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA28805 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:33:57 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA28792 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:33:47 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA27015; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:06:20 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508292336.JAA27015@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:06:20 +0930 (CST) Cc: leo@lisa.rur.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, rashid@haven.ios.com In-Reply-To: <199508292149.HAA02386@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 30, 95 07:49:56 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1411 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > > >And to state my reason for agreement that parity is a ``itsy-bitsy comfort'', > >think about the fact that 80% of your memory access are going to a L2 > >cache that has never had parity on it, yet has a same FIT rate as the > >main memory system. Basically your more likely today to take a single > >bit error in your cache as you are in main memory :-(. > > Is there anything to detect or correct errors in the registers or > control logic? They're not susceptible in the same way (and static memories are much less susceptible than dynamic memories). The #1 cause of single-bit errors are charged particles resulting from radioactive decay in the chip packaging materials. (One reason why ceramic-package memories are almost extinct). DRAMs, which depend on the charge on a tiny capacitor, are vulnerable to having this charge corrupted by a small storm of such particles. Static memories don't use this technique, and are thus resistant to this form of corruption. > Bruce -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 17:09:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA29666 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:09:13 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA29659 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:08:58 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA02100; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:07:04 -0400 From: A boy and his worm gear Message-Id: <199508300007.UAA02100@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb is intense To: bugs@ns1.win.net (Mark Hittinger) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508291815.OAA02459@ns1.win.net> from "Mark Hittinger" at Aug 29, 95 02:15:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2490 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Mark Hittinger had to walk into mine and say: > We have a rather large password file and I can hear the system groaning > whenever someone changes their password. Top shows the process go to > about 20-30% of the P90 for around 2 or 3 minutes. Swap space in use > increases by around 15% during this period. Ouch. How large is large, if I may ask? > chpass/passwd all pass the buck to pwd_mkdb which recreates the entire > file. Well, I think it sort of has to... > Is there a utility which updates the various keys in the db for just one > particular user id? Would the db routines that pwd_mkdb calls actually > support the in-place update of a particular record? :-) I think you can just overwrite a particular record, but there are other things involved. pwd_mkdb does quite a lot of work. It has to generate /etc/passwd from /etc/master.passwd. It has to generate both /etc/pwd.db and /etc/spwd.db. And each of these databases contains not one, not two, but three copies of the user information: one set of data is keyed by UID (for getpwuid()), the second is keyed by username (for getpwnam()) and the third is keyed 'by number' (for getpwent()) which is to say that the records are keyed by the line numbers which they occupied in the original /etc/master.passwd file. (If you use NIS, it also stores the magic '+' and '-' entries, but these usually take up only a small percentage of the database.) And it has to do all this in such a way that it doesn't leave itself open to race conditions. Yeah, this seems like a long way to go, but it's a trade-off: by spending a lot of time creating the database, you make database lookups much faster. I think it's possible to just extend or modify the databases for the KEYBYUID and KEYBYNAME cases, but you'd have to do some juggling to get KEYBYNUM to work right. Removing records is something else again. > Regards, > > Mark Hittinger > bugs@win.net -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The M矘se Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~ "Welcome to All Things BSDish! If it's not BSDish, it's crap!" ~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 17:49:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA00850 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:49:56 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA00834 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:49:34 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA04877; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:42:02 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508300042.RAA04877@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ARP'ing [Summary of responses] To: Piero@strider.ibenet.it Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199508290929.LAA02381@strider.ibenet.it> from "Piero Serini" at Aug 29, 95 11:29:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2259 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Hello. > > Quoting from Michael Smith (Tue Aug 29 04:30:07 1995): > > Pavlov's Cat stands accused of saying: > > > same address (192.168.254.130) because it's the first free entry in it's > > > dynamic pool. (N.B.: DHCP servers don't have a way to monitor addresses > > > which are "in use" but weren't asssigned by the DHCP server.) The client > > > accepts the offered address and (at least with WinDoze clients) attempts to > > > ARP the wire for "192.168.254.130" since it doesn't explicitly "trust" the server. > > > Whoops! The client "discovers" that the address is already in use! > > > > Pick a DHCP server you have source for, and get it to arp around before > > it allocates the IP number. If it finds it, you have a few options : > ... > > I'd go another way: shutdown the entire network on a saturday night > for maintenance, set your own machine to ARP each and every address > you don't use, then correct all the IP numbers your abusers are abusing > and turn the network up again. Then stick this note around: > > I HAD TO WORK ALL THE NIGHT LONG TO RECOVER THE NETWORK > FROM YOUR ABUSES!! > > Please note that assigning IP numbers is *MY* duty, not > yours, so if you need one, just ask. > > VIOLATORS WILL BE PROSECUTED AND KILLED ON THE SPOT. > > It should work. This is an effective solution to the problem, one I have seen used at several sites. Basically they went in the wiring closets, powered off all the 10BaseT repeaters, set up the ARP stuff, then powered up the repeaters and watched machines all over the network keal over into a massive crash, every thing was running smoothly after 3 days of the tech support lines ringing solid 24 hours a day :-). Painful, but quite effective in resulting a solution. They keep the arp killer alive and when an IP address is assigned it is removed from the proxy arp table, this keeping folks from even trying to use an unassigned IP address. They also arp'ed for _all_ addresses outside of there assigned ranges to keep ``private'' networks from starting up in corners of the buildings :-). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 17:50:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA00895 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:50:16 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA00882 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:50:07 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA04908 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:49:55 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508300049.RAA04908@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: postmaster@yggdrasil.com: Yggdrasil Product Information To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:49:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199508290641.IAA17364@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Aug 29, 95 08:41:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1864 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > Basically what our old `whereis' command did. I don't like the extra > > > blubber above (e.g. running file(1) on the executable), but i really > > > loved to have a command that was pointing at the location of the > > > source and man page as well as the binary. Are there any reasons to > > > stick with the crippled 4.4 version? > > > > Not that I can see. I'd be happy to see a more featureful version! > > Are there any legal problems with re-importing the Net2 code here? As > far as i can see, this program originated at Berkeley: Yes, there are some very big legal problems here, the agreement with USL states ``cease all use of Net/2'' once the 4.4 LIte tape is avaliable. Do NOT import any Net/2 code. Or, be prepared to suffer the wrath of Rod, who would then have to stop using FreeBSD due to legal circumstances. :-). We already have code in there that puts me in legal jeopordy, as well as WC itself. (Ie, any file with a sccs ID that indicates it came from Net/2 (ie 5.*) is technically a violation of the USL/AAC/WC aggrements). This does not mean that _you_ can't use the Net/2 code, it just means that Walnut Creek, and myself can not use it in any form, nor can we distribute it. Someone not bound by an agreement with USL can do anything they so desire with Net/2. I would like to ask that anyone finding Net/2 sccs'id's on files in our source tree to do what they can to eratticate them, many came from foolish copying of the 1.1.5.1 files covered by the UCB copyright that where released as part of 4.4 and should have been brought forward as deltas instead of wholesale copies. (src/etc and src/share/mk are 2 large examples). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 18:09:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA01857 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:09:19 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA01844 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:08:53 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA10577; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:07:16 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:07:16 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508300107.LAA10577@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I'm helping a bloke here set up FreeBSD, and man the serial ports are hard >to explain. >Why, oh why, is the CU device for "ttyd0" called "cuaa0" instead of "cuad0"? >Or making it ttya0? It was to give a unique name when the name is truncated to 2 characters for printing by ps, etc. There isn't enough namespace for unique names, so I wanted to change to cuad0, but the names have already changed too oftenand further changes are likely and there wasn't much time before 2.0.5R. >I understand that going to alpha names makes some sense, but it really doesn't >look good when they're so inconsistent. The old names had the virtue of >making sense "oh, sio is the serial I/O driver...". When did they make sense? They were never called sio* or ttys*. `s' would have been a bad name anyway since sio is actually the ns(x)xx50 driver. This point becomes more important when there are half a dozen other Serial IO drivers with different broken naming schemes. >For 2.1, can we go back to at least making the tty and cua devices have the >same identifiers? When did they have the same identifiers? If you say that tty00 and cua00 have the same identifiers, then I'll say that `0' is not an identifier :-). >Oh yeh, the docs should have something in big bold letters about linking >/dev/mouse to /dev/cuaa0 under whatever name it ends up as... That would be bogus. X works with the vanilla POSIX port ttyd0 and always has. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 18:39:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA02776 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:39:17 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA02770 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:39:14 -0700 Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA19625; Tue, 29 Aug 95 21:38:41 -0400 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id VAA04525; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:38:40 -0400 Message-Id: <199508300138.VAA04525@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: pilot error on my part or feedback on the 2.1 snap Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:38:40 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On the advice of Richard Wackerbarth I decided to install the 2.1 snap instead of the 2.0.5 RELEASE. This after years of running FreeBSD 1.x and 386BSD before that. While I applaud the new improved installation there needs to be a way to see what went wrong with something, a terse "It didn't work" isn't very satisfying. Howzabout a "Press F3 to see the log" or something similar? It could stand an "expert only" escape to a command shell too. I've tried quite a few different ways through the menus, but one thing that's confounded me more than once was, when trying to (W)rite the disklabel, to have it tell me that I have to label the disk in order to complete this operation. Now this seems confusing when I'm in disklabel, trying to disklabel the disk, to have it tell me I need to label the disk in order to label the disk. :-) But even more confounding is, when it finally seems willing to write the label, to have the kernel panic with the message "biodone: buffer not busy", sync the disk and reboot. So far this has happened several times and I have been otherwise unsuccessful in installing. Is this somehow a pilot error or should I fall back to 2.0.5? The machine is a recent vintage 486DX/2, PCI, onboard EIDE controller, onboard parallel and two 16550 serial. Only cards are a PCI Mach64 VGA and an old Logitech busmouse controller. The boot probe says that wdc0 is an AC31200F. The disk itself is, as I recall, a Seagate Barracuda, 1222 meg drive, actual geometry reported during the boot probe is 2484 Cyl, 16 H, 63 Sec, CMOS geometry is 621 Cyl, 64 H, 64 Sec. This machine has been running OS/2 3.0 quite happily for many moons with no problems. Thoughts? -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 18:40:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA02825 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:40:25 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA02819 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:40:22 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA07404 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:45:40 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199508300145.VAA07404@ns1.win.net> Subject: re: re: pwd_mkdb is intense To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:45:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1798 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Our password file is around 11552 lines now (and growing daily). Actually I dislike the structure of the db password file. On a more vanilla level my experience with mixing keys and data records in the same file has nearly always been bad. I'd rather have the binary pw records in one flat file and three additional files that have the keys/pointers to the binary pw records. This would insulate the data from the db package. It looks to me like we have each "pw" record in the system 8 times? I have about 8.5 megabytes devoted to this structure. 1. /etc/passwd record 2. /etc/master.passwd record 3. /etc/pwd.db pw record keyed by username 4. /etc/pwd.db pw record keyed by count 5. /etc/pwd.db pw record keyed by uid 6. /etc/spwd.db shadow pw record keyed by username 7. /etc/spwd.db shadow pw record keyed by count 8. /etc/spwd.db shadow pw record keyed by uid I realize that pwd_mkdb is doing a ton of stuff to preserve compatibility and support shadowing/locking. I am assuming here that there is not some soft parameter that I can pump up in pwd_mkdb to make it a screamer :-) I see a cache size parameter in a hash structure. I will try to increase that tommorrow and see what happens. Maybe there is something down in the gut level db stuff that I can pump up also. In an environment where accounts are constantly being added or updated the current system is sub-optimal. For a new account I'd rather append records to passwd, master.passwd, a hypothetical flat binary pw record file, a hypothetical flat binary pw shadow file, and then add keys to the three seperate key files. For the updates I just would have to get the record, lock it, and alter the flat record. There is no need to recreate the keys. Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 18:48:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA03040 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:48:12 -0700 Received: from strider.ibenet.it ([194.179.130.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA03028 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:48:02 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA00296; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:38:25 +0200 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199508300138.DAA00296@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:38:24 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com In-Reply-To: <199508300107.LAA10577@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 30, 95 11:07:16 am Reply-To: Piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1536 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Bruce Evans (Wed Aug 30 03:07:16 1995): > >Oh yeh, the docs should have something in big bold letters about linking > >/dev/mouse to /dev/cuaa0 under whatever name it ends up as... > > That would be bogus. X works with the vanilla POSIX port ttyd0 and > always has. I'd not say it's "bogus". Maybe it's redundant, or strictly speaking "unnececessary", but as I suggested on -install I think many many users would be really happy in seeing their X setup working by just typing in "/dev/mouse" in the pointer section, without havin to fiddle with this 'strange' (ok I know that for *you* is simple, but you're not Joe User) naming scheme. If install asked the user "which DOS 'com' port shall I use for the mouse (1/2/3/4) [1]? __", and linked /dev/mouse to the ap- propriate device, I bet a lot of people would find FreeBSD much more friendly in the first impression, which is the important one. And, we wouldn't read lots of e-mail about setting the mouse in X, and why Linux works right out of the install (this is the rea- son, anyway: it links /dev/mouse to the appropriate device), and why does this strange OS called U*ix use this strange numbering scheme starting with 0 while all other serious OSes like (may God forgive me :) DOS use 1 2 3 4 ... Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 18:55:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA03248 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:55:20 -0700 Received: from tippy.vnet.net (tippy.vnet.net [166.82.197.240]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA03239 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:55:06 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by tippy.vnet.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA00935; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:54:51 GMT Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:54:50 +0000 () From: Chris Madison To: jdl@chromatic.com cc: Bruce Evans , vak@cronyx.ru, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: wd0 detect fails In-Reply-To: <199508292218.RAA06678@chrome.onramp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Don't know if I have anything relevant to add to this, but last night I rebuilt a kernel with the src-cur.094? CTM. I have two ide drives attached to wdc0 and one on wdc1. Besides not being able to write a boot manager that worked to the wd0, everything ran fine. Then this morning when I went to check the morning mail I booted the new kernel, the back up one was built with the src-cur.093{8|9} CTM, and wdc0 could not be detected, but wdc1 was, which didn't do me any good since, the root dir existed on wd1. Naturally, I tried to boot with the backup (stupid me, because I should keep a tried and true backup:-() and the same thing. So I was out of system until after work and school;-( Anyway, I just got things back up under a 2.0.5R kernel and found that I have many bad sectors on my root partition, so _finally_ I have a reason to buy a scsi drive (well a justification):-) I did have some Errors: C:37 H:6 S:21 C:32 H:12 S:21 but I think those were caused by the bad blocks on the root dir. ========================================================================== root@tippy.vnet.net | Bill Gates is the Anti-Christ cmmadiso@uncc.edu | Windows95 is the False Prophet ========================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 19:08:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA03568 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:08:38 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA03558 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:08:25 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA05491; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:06:34 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508300206.TAA05491@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: make install broken To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Aug 29, 95 02:28:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1356 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > make install of the current tree falls over with: > > make install > > umask 022; cd /usr/src/share/zoneinfo; zic -d /usr/share/zoneinfo -p America/New_York -L /dev/null -y /usr/src/share/zoneinfo/obj/yearistype africa antarctica asia australasia etcetera europe factory northamerica southamerica systemv > > "europe", line 717: invalid time of day > > "europe", line 718: invalid time of day > > "europe", line 719: invalid time of day > > "europe", line 760: invalid time of day > > "europe", line 761: invalid time of day > > "europe", line 762: invalid time of day > > "europe", line 763: invalid time of day > > "europe", line 764: invalid time of day > > "europe", line 765: invalid time of day > > *** Error code 1 > > > > > > anyone see a problem here.. > > the lines it's complaining about seem the same as others that > > have succeeded.. > > When upgrading from 2.0.5R, you have to do zic first, and install it, > then do the rest of the make world. You don't have to go that far, just > go install the new zic, then complete the make install. Some one go add zic to the tools: target of src/Makefile to fix this bug. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 19:22:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA03840 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:22:46 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA03832 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:22:28 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA05612; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:22:09 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508300222.TAA05612@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Does fdisk work? To: bob@luke.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508292150.QAA04918@luke.pmr.com> from "Bob Willcox" at Aug 29, 95 04:50:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 765 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Does fdisk work for others? I have not been able to get it to > write anything on the disk. I run it with the -i flag and answer > all the questions in the affirmative, yet upon running it again > (or disklabel) the disk still has no valid partion table (at least > not what I specified). This on both a 2.0.5R and a 950726-SNAP > level system. > > All I can figure is that either fdisk is terminally broken or I am > missing something very fundamental about its use. :-(( fdisk -u, the -u option is required if you wish to write to the disk, -i write a master boot record, but no partition table. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 19:31:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA04069 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:31:48 -0700 Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA04062 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:31:44 -0700 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:31:30 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:31:32 -0500 To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: pilot error on my part or feedback on the 2.1 snap Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" writes: >On the advice of Richard Wackerbarth I decided to install the 2.1 snap >instead of the 2.0.5 RELEASE. >Is this somehow a pilot error or should I fall back to 2.0.5? I'm not quite sure what the problem is. However, in my defense, the code that is giving you trouble (the disk headers) is the same in 2.0.5 as it is in later versions. Personally, I dislike the design decision to subvert the entire concept of disklabeling simply to conform to MSDOS's way of doing things. But then I was not allowed to be party to that design decision. When I changed from 2.0 to 2.0.5, I had to go in and reformat EVERY disk (all 20Gig) and copy things onto new partitions. It wasn't fun, but now I am assured that I can remove any disk and use it as a bootable disk on another system. I hope you get past the disk initialization. Then if you have additional problems, perhaps I can help. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 19:33:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA04150 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:33:23 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA04132 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:32:55 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA05628; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:31:38 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508300231.TAA05628@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Cc: leo@lisa.rur.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, rashid@haven.ios.com In-Reply-To: <199508292149.HAA02386@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 30, 95 07:49:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1617 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > >And to state my reason for agreement that parity is a ``itsy-bitsy comfort'', > >think about the fact that 80% of your memory access are going to a L2 > >cache that has never had parity on it, yet has a same FIT rate as the > >main memory system. Basically your more likely today to take a single > >bit error in your cache as you are in main memory :-(. > > Is there anything to detect or correct errors in the registers or > control logic? The Pentium data books are not specific on this issue. I can not publically disclose that information due to NDA's. I can say that the description of signal IERR# would lead you to reasonable conclusions: IERR#, Type Output: The internal error pin is used to indicate two types of errors, internal parity errors and functional redundancy errors. If a parity error occurs on a read from an internal array, the Pentium processor will assert the IERR# pin for one clock and then shutdown. If the Pentium processor is configured as a checker and a mismatch occurs between the value sampled on the pins and the corresponding value computed internally, the Pentium process will assert IERR# two clocks after the mismatched value is returned. Source: ``Pentium(TM) Processors and Related Products'', Intel Corporation, 1995. Order #241732, ISBN 1-55512-239-6. For full detection of register and control logic errors you run 2 Pentiums in fucntional redudancy mode. I am aware of products that do just that. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 19:44:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA04464 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:44:51 -0700 Received: from viking.emcmt.edu (VIKING.EMCMT.EDU [192.156.215.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA04452 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:44:36 -0700 Received: by viking.emcmt.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA11268; Tue, 29 Aug 95 20:41:52 -0600 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:41:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Computer Annex To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Developement Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk There are a group of students at Montana State University Billings that are interested in joining the team for developement of the FreeBSD system. Although we are not Unix gurus I feel that our group could contribute to the developement of FreeBSD. Any info and guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Joe Greenwood From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 19:49:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA04732 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:49:14 -0700 Received: from shzkgw.cs.shizuoka.ac.jp (shzkgw.cs.shizuoka.ac.jp [133.70.169.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA04724 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 19:49:10 -0700 From: purna@cs.shizuoka.ac.jp Received: from amalthea.cs.shizuoka.ac.jp (amalthea.cs.shizuoka.ac.jp [133.70.169.4]) by shzkgw.cs.shizuoka.ac.jp (8.6.12/3.3Wb-shzkgw1) with ESMTP id LAA00408; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:44:46 +0900 Received: from jaguar.cs.shizuoka.ac.jp (jaguar.cs.shizuoka.ac.jp [133.70.170.61]) by amalthea.cs.shizuoka.ac.jp (8.6.12/3.3Wb-amalthea1) with SMTP id LAA07501; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:44:44 +0900 Received: by jaguar.cs.shizuoka.ac.jp (4.1/6.4J.6-shzk6) id AA02076; Wed, 30 Aug 95 11:44:41 JST Date: Wed, 30 Aug 95 11:44:41 JST Message-Id: <9508300244.AA02076@jaguar.cs.shizuoka.ac.jp> To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, purna@cs.shizuoka.ac.jp Subject: Re: Help installing IDE CD-ROM driver Cc: dfr@render.com, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I think you should rather use > > mount -t cd9660 /dev/wcd0a /cdrom > > (but this should give a different error message, such as "bogus > superblock" or so), and wait for a few seconds after you have inserted > the disk, so that the controller can recognize it. But then, the > changer might need some special command to load a disk. > I tried, but the similar messages appeared: YWP# mount -r -t cd9660 /dev/wcd0c /cdrom /dev/wcd0c on /cdrom: Input/output error YWP# Aug 24 22:13:30 YWP /kernel: atapi1.0: controller not ready Aug 24 22:13:30 YWP /kernel: atapi1.0: controller not ready YWP (purna@cs.shizuoka.ac.jp) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 20:04:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA05227 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:04:18 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA05220 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:04:14 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA05696; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:02:01 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508300302.UAA05696@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, leo@lisa.rur.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, rashid@haven.ios.com In-Reply-To: <199508292336.JAA27015@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Aug 30, 95 09:06:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2735 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > > > > >And to state my reason for agreement that parity is a ``itsy-bitsy comfort'', > > >think about the fact that 80% of your memory access are going to a L2 > > >cache that has never had parity on it, yet has a same FIT rate as the > > >main memory system. Basically your more likely today to take a single > > >bit error in your cache as you are in main memory :-(. > > > > Is there anything to detect or correct errors in the registers or > > control logic? > > They're not susceptible in the same way (and static memories are much less > susceptible than dynamic memories). > > The #1 cause of single-bit errors are charged particles resulting from > radioactive decay in the chip packaging materials. (One reason why > ceramic-package memories are almost extinct). > > DRAMs, which depend on the charge on a tiny capacitor, are vulnerable > to having this charge corrupted by a small storm of such particles. > > Static memories don't use this technique, and are thus resistant to > this form of corruption. I would have agreed with this 3 years ago, but I suggest you go study some of the current technology in use. First alpha particle disturbance in DRAM is gone, it was pretty much killed 4 years ago with the advent of certain epoxy materials used to coat the die with before plastic encapsolation. At todays DRAM scales a single alpha particle is enough to destroy the charge, that is why they had to pretty much eliminate them totally. Static memories are suspetable to alpha particule disturbance, it just takes a heck of a lot more to do it, and given ceramic is out of the picture it won't occur anyway. In a cmos static memory you have to have enough disturbance to perturb the gate voltage of one side of the latch to cause a bit flip, about 10 micro rinkens will do it, but it usually sends the device into latchup at the same time :-). The more prevelent cause today in single bit errors in both DRAM and SRAM is cause by VCC noise and or ION contamination caused by moisture absorbition into plastic packages before surface mount vapor phase soldering. Current FIT per bit are in the 0.0002 to 0.0004 range, that is measure in billions of power on hours. Today MTBF in a 2MB x 16 bit DRAM subsystem is 30 to 35 years... I'd say I can live with that given that my disk is going to go belly up in 57 years anyway :-) :-) :-) Sources of information for this and more details are in many vendors data books, Mircon's 1995 has a few good tech notes about it, as does Intels memory products books. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 20:44:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA06748 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:44:54 -0700 Received: from chrome.onramp.net (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA06740 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:44:51 -0700 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.onramp.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA07462; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:44:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199508300344.WAA07462@chrome.onramp.net> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.onramp.net: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Computer Annex cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Developement In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:41:51 MDT." Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:44:50 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Apparently, Computer Annex scribbled: > There are a group of students at Montana State University Billings that > are interested in joining the team for developement of the FreeBSD > system. Jordan -- maybe we need to *underline* that part, you know, the one that says "If you post mail to hackers you automatically sign up." :-) > Although we are not Unix gurus I feel that our group could > contribute to the developement of FreeBSD. Any info and guidance would > be greatly appreciated. Hmmm... I'll take a stab at Round 0 here.... First things first. Absorb the entire contents of the basics as found on http://www.freebsd.org/. I'd assume you've at least gotten that far as you've mailed to hackers. :-) Absorb the FAQs and the Handbook. Convince yourself you're serious by investing in PC hardware (!) and installing FreeBSD. That's what I did. This step alone is quite enlightening in many ways and can often point out, er, opportunities for contributions. If you haven't done this step yet, take careful note of the deficiencies in the documentation as you proceed and need answers. (There's been some effort to clean up some of the docs and having a fresh insight towards the "problem" areas might be useful.) Try and determine what areas you are interested in. Try and determine an area that needs improvement. Hopefully the intersection of these two sets is non-empty. :-) Become an expert on this area. Jump right in and help! Me? I've got a useless IDE CDROM for which a driver *just* became available. I'd like to believe I'm helping to shake it down and make it more solid. (OK, so I'd like to get the drive recognized first too. :-) You probably know all these already, but I'm not afraid to offer some obvious high level hints anyways: - send questions to the questions list - send technical mumbo-jumbo to the hackers list - pick one list; no need to spam 'em all - help will be freely given, appreciate it when it is given and due - do all the courtesy of at least attempting to RTFM first - if questions are asked, an answer is NOT guaranteed as this is strictly a voluntary proposition - the mail load for freebsd lists can be high - contribute as you're willing and able - usually when asking a question, provide as much concise detail as you can; people here have a, er, nasty habit of pressing for detail - don't ever say the L word :-) If you can be any more specific about your interests, desires or expectations, I'm sure we can be even more helpful here... (See!) Are we starting this whole FreeBSD thing cold? Have you done the install excercise yet? Given that you're self-described non-UNIX-gurus (NUGs?), you might read an off the shelf BSD-flavor UNIX book or two. There are a few references mentioned in the FAQ/Handbook. Oh, and, this should be moved to the "questions" list, not hackers... :-) jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 20:47:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA06964 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:47:14 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user52.lightside.com [198.81.209.52]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA06948 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:47:07 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA01125; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:47:10 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:47:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Does fdisk work? In-Reply-To: <199508300222.TAA05612@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > Does fdisk work for others? I have not been able to get it to > > write anything on the disk. I run it with the -i flag and answer > > all the questions in the affirmative, yet upon running it again > > (or disklabel) the disk still has no valid partion table (at least > > not what I specified). This on both a 2.0.5R and a 950726-SNAP > > level system. > > > > All I can figure is that either fdisk is terminally broken or I am > > missing something very fundamental about its use. :-(( > > fdisk -u, the -u option is required if you wish to write to the > disk, -i write a master boot record, but no partition table. > I just set up FreeBSD a few days ago (after a few years using Linux) and overall it's excellent! But fdisk/disklabel are REALLY difficult to figure out. What FreeBSD needs is an menu-based fdisk more like Linux's (or the sysinstall program). At any rate, the one major problem I had setting up FreeBSD was that I installed it on my second IDE hard drive and it refused to boot (well actually it booted into LILO which is what I was running before I installed FreeBSD). I ended up having to download the DOS program BootEasy in order to boot, but now BootEasy won't boot my DOS partition (also on the second IDE drive). And I never did figure out how to reinstall the EasyBoot MBR from within FreeBSD! Considering my configuration, what would be the EXACT command to install a master boot record on my first and second IDE hard drive from within FreeBSD? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 22:07:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA10064 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:07:07 -0700 Received: from oasis.txdirect.net (oasis.txdirect.net [204.57.120.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA10056 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:06:50 -0700 Received: (from rsnow@localhost) by oasis.txdirect.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA03858; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:06:39 -0500 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:06:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Rob Snow X-Sender: rsnow@oasis To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrade to my machine In-Reply-To: <199508300449.VAA05887@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: [Other stuff snipped] > > > > > That's true but who would actually need a gig of ram? > > > > > > THINK for a minute about large applications. An Intel Pentium 90/100 CPU > > > chip as 3.3 billon transistors on it. Each cmos transitor takes at least > > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > > 6 rectangles to represent the minimal transitor data and 3 contacts to hook > > > it up, now thats 19.8G assumming I can stuff a rectange into a byte :-). > > > > > > We haven't even started to talk about interconnecting these 3.3 billon > > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > > transistors... > > > > > > Can you say that a gigabyte in this world is actually a very small amount > > > of data! > > > -- > > > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > > > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD > > > > Isn't that [M]illion? > > Get a grip, it takes a million transistors just to implement the 16k of > cache: > 16384 bytes * 8bits/byte * 6 transistors a bit == 786432, add the decoders > and other gunk and your over a million right there.... > > And from the 1994 i486DX2 data sheet ``Over one million transistors implement > this RISC integer core'' talking about just the integer ALU and registers > here.... and that was the 486 core ALU, the P54 ALU is an order or two in > magnitude more complex due to being super scaler and longer pipe. > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD Your right, I got a needed to get a grip :) Got a grip on my mouse and pushed the Netscape button on my button bar. Gripped my keyboard and typed http://www.intel.com. Hmmm, whats this: ######### FROM WWW.INTEL.COM ########## The first member of the P6 processor family... Arrives in desktops and servers in 1995. Integrates about 5.5 million transistors on the chip, compared to approximately 3.1 million transistors on the Pentium processor. ######### END SNIP ############# Yep, I just needed a to get a grip. ;-) --- Rob Snow rsnow@txdirect.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 22:11:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA10203 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:11:01 -0700 Received: from gw.itfs.nsk.su (gw.itfs.nsk.su [193.124.36.33]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA09953 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:02:12 -0700 Received: from itfs.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by gw.itfs.nsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id LAA21496 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:58:29 +0700 Received: by itfs.nsk.su; Wed, 30 Aug 95 11:42:02 +0700 (NST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by news.itfs.nsk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA05689; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:39:08 +0700 From: nnd@itfs.nsk.su (Nickolay N. Dudorov) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Solution : How to read mailing-list via newsgroups Message-ID: References: <199508291650.AAA15721@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:39:05 GMT Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Chien-Ta Lee (jdli@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw) wrote: > Problem: I use tin to read news, while I press "r" to reply posts, > it will NOT forward my reply mails to mailing-list, only > the author of that post can receive ur reply. > Add CC: by hand seems no use. :( > Maybe tin needs a hack to do the forwarding. (at least when > I add CC: by hand) > Any idea ? > > Problem: Use tin to post on the mailing-list newsgroup will NOT > be sent to mailing-list. It's ok I think. > I write this message as a 'follow-up' to original from within tin. We also transform freebsd-mailing-lists in local newsgroups here. In order to reply or send a message to mailing-list we've made all this newsgroups moderated. Our "moderator" - simple script - forwards messages to mailing-lists. Problem: Now I must insert (B)CC: by hand to reply to the author of the post. Solution: "Moderator"-script can (and will) do it for me. (we'll try to use 'X-comment-to' header from tin-1.3beta) N.Dudorov From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 22:39:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA10833 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:39:11 -0700 Received: from chrome.onramp.net (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA10825 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:38:49 -0700 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.onramp.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA07671 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:38:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199508300538.AAA07671@chrome.onramp.net> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.onramp.net: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: More ATAPI -- possible insight into probe problems...? Reply-To: jdl@chromatic.com Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:38:46 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Aha! Watch this: Given: controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 #disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr #disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 #disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 options ATAPI #Enable ATAPI support for IDE bus device wcd0 #IDE CD-ROM I see: wd0: probe started wd0: checking RW register on port 0x1f0 + 0x4 wd0: reseting wd0: diagnosing wd0: Error : 0x1 wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 1033MB (2116800 sectors), 2100 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S atapi0.1 at 0x1f0: attach called atapi.1 at 0x1f0: identify not ready, status=1 wd1: probe started wd1: checking RW register on port 0x170 + 0x4 wdc1 not found at 0x170 Oh my! Let's peek at my highly superior wd.c: static int wdprobe(struct isa_device *dvp) { int unit = dvp->id_unit; struct disk *du; if (unit >= NWDC) return (0); #ifdef WDDEBUG_PROBE printf("wd%d: probe started\n", unit); #endif du = malloc(sizeof *du, M_TEMP, M_NOWAIT); if (du == NULL) return (0); bzero(du, sizeof *du); du->dk_ctrlr = dvp->id_unit; du->dk_port = dvp->id_iobase; wdc_registerdev(dvp); #ifdef WDDEBUG_PROBE printf("wd%d: checking RW register on port 0x%x + 0x%x\n", unit, du->dk_port, wd_cyl_lo); #endif /* check if we have registers that work */ outb(du->dk_port + wd_cyl_lo, 0xa5); /* wd_cyl_lo is read/write */ if (inb(du->dk_port + wd_cyl_lo) == 0xff) /* XXX too weak */ goto nodevice; #ifdef WDDEBUG_PROBE printf("wd%d: reseting\n", unit); #endif if (wdreset(du) != 0 && (DELAY(RECOVERYTIME), wdreset(du)) != 0) goto nodevice; So who can tell me any details about that lovely weak check for R/W registers that appears to be failing for me? Simple things like: - Is this a valid register for a CDROM drive too? Ie, is this check tacitly assuming a hard disk beneath it? - Is it subject to timing problems? - It *claims* to be "too weak", however it appears to be too strong! (Note also that I'd already bumped the TIMEOUT to 31000 to, I think, meet spec. Didn't seem to help anywhere...) Now I then did the obvious frob: totally *skip* this weak test. This worked relatively nicely! wd0: probe started wd0: checking RW register on port 0x1f0 + 0x4 wd0: reseting wd0: diagnosing wd0: Error : 0x1 wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 1033MB (2116800 sectors), 2100 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S atapi0.1 at 0x1f0: attach called atapi.1 at 0x1f0: identify not ready, status=1 wd1: probe started wd1: checking RW register on port 0x170 + 0x4 wd1: reseting wd1: diagnosing wd0: Error : 0x1 wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa atapi1.0 at 0x170: attach called wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, cmd16 wcd0: info 85-80-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-0-0-0-0-0-0-2e-34-33-32-20-20-20-20-4e-45-43-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-43-44-2d-52-4f-4d-20-44-52-49-56-45-3a-32-36-30-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-a-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-b4-0-b4-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 atapi1.0: req im 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 len=24 atapi1.0: start atapi1.0: send cmd 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 atapi1.0: intr ireason=0x1, len=24, status=48, error=0 atapi1.0: send cmd 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 atapi1.0: intr ireason=0x3, len=24, status=41, error=64 atapi1.1 at 0x170: attach called atapi.1 at 0x170: no device This is basically the same behaviour I was seeing when it was hanging on the wdc0 controller. Note that slightly different behaviour was observed as the ATAPI device was not found as the second device of each of the two controllers. So -- bottom line: How 'bout that XXX weak register RW test? How 'bout that double interrupt on cmd 5a? Anyone? jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 23:28:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA12876 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 23:28:03 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA12725 ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 23:22:03 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA02111; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:22:07 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199508300622.MAA02111@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Digi PC/Xe patch To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:22:06 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 9316 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Finally my Digiboard driver can work with PC/Xe cards! It understands two flags too: 0x01 - alternate layout of pins 0x02 - use the windowed PC/Xe in 64K mode It seems to work enough stable now. The diff relative to ALPHA is: --------------------------- cut here ------------------------------------ *** 1.31 1995/07/13 09:25:09 --- dgb.c 1995/08/16 08:23:58 *************** *** 1,5 **** /*- ! * dgb.c $Id: dgb.c,v 1.31 1995/07/13 09:25:09 root Exp $ * * Copyright (C) 1995 by Serge Babkin * --- 1,5 ---- /*- ! * dgb.c $Id: dgb.c,v 1.40 1995/08/16 08:23:00 root Exp root $ * * Copyright (C) 1995 by Serge Babkin * *************** *** 208,213 **** --- 208,214 ---- struct dgb_softc { /* struct board_info */ u_char status; /* status: DISABLED/ENABLED */ + u_char unit; /* unit number */ u_char type; /* type of card: PCXE, PCXI, PCXEVE */ u_char altpin; /* do we need alternate pin setting ? */ ushort numports; /* number of ports on card */ *************** *** 292,300 **** }; #ifdef DEBUG ! static int debug=1; #else ! static int debug=0; #endif static int polltimeout=0; --- 293,301 ---- }; #ifdef DEBUG ! int dgbdebug=1; #else ! int dgbdebug=0; #endif static int polltimeout=0; *************** *** 310,315 **** --- 311,317 ---- { if(sc->type==PCXEVE) { outb(sc->port+1, FEPWIN|(addr>>13)); + DPRINT3("dgb%d: switched to window 0x%x\n",sc->unit,addr>>13); return (addr & 0x1FFF); } else { outb(sc->port,FEPMEM); *************** *** 324,329 **** --- 326,332 ---- { if(sc->type==PCXEVE) { outb(sc->port+1, FEPWIN|(addr>>13)); + DPRINT3("dgb%d: switched to window 0x%x\n",sc->unit,addr>>13); return (addr & 0x1FFF); } else { outb(sc->port,inb(sc->port)|FEPMEM); *************** *** 364,372 **** int addr; int unit=dev->id_unit; ! sc->port=dev->id_iobase; /* left 24 bits only (ISA address) */ sc->pmem=((long)dev->id_maddr & 0xFFFFFF); --- 367,380 ---- int addr; int unit=dev->id_unit; ! sc->unit=dev->id_unit; sc->port=dev->id_iobase; + if(dev->id_flags & DGBFLAG_ALTPIN) + sc->altpin=1; + else + sc->altpin=0; + /* left 24 bits only (ISA address) */ sc->pmem=((long)dev->id_maddr & 0xFFFFFF); *************** *** 429,435 **** sc->mem_seg=0xF000; ! if(( v&0xC0 )==0) { win_size=0x10000; printf("dgb%d: PC/Xe 64K\n",dev->id_unit); sc->type=PCXE; --- 437,443 ---- sc->mem_seg=0xF000; ! if(dev->id_flags==DGBFLAG_NOWIN || ( v&0xC0 )==0) { win_size=0x10000; printf("dgb%d: PC/Xe 64K\n",dev->id_unit); sc->type=PCXE; *************** *** 530,536 **** /* for PCXEVE set up interrupt and base address */ if(sc->type==PCXEVE) { ! t=(((u_long)sc->pmem>>8) & 0xFFE0); /* IRQ isn't used */ #if 0 --- 538,544 ---- /* for PCXEVE set up interrupt and base address */ if(sc->type==PCXEVE) { ! t=(((u_long)sc->pmem>>8) & 0xFFE0) | 0x10 /* enable windowing */; /* IRQ isn't used */ #if 0 *************** *** 565,586 **** outb(sc->port+2,t & 0xFF); outb(sc->port+3,t>>8); } ! outb(sc->port, FEPRST|FEPMEM); DELAY(1); ! for(i=0; (inb(sc->port) & FEPMASK) != (FEPRST|FEPMEM) ; i++) { ! if(i>10000) { ! printf("dgb%d: 2nd reset failed\n",dev->id_unit); ! sc->status=DISABLED; ! hidewin(sc); ! return 0; } - DELAY(1); - } ! DPRINT3("dgb%d: got memory after %d us\n",unit,i); mem=sc->vmem; --- 573,600 ---- outb(sc->port+2,t & 0xFF); outb(sc->port+3,t>>8); + } else if(sc->type==PCXE) { + t=(((u_long)sc->pmem>>8) & 0xFFE0) /* disable windowing */; + outb(sc->port+2,t & 0xFF); + outb(sc->port+3,t>>8); } ! if(sc->type==PCXI || sc->type==PCXE) { ! outb(sc->port, FEPRST|FEPMEM); DELAY(1); ! for(i=0; (inb(sc->port) & FEPMASK) != (FEPRST|FEPMEM) ; i++) { ! if(i>10000) { ! printf("dgb%d: 2nd reset failed\n",dev->id_unit); ! sc->status=DISABLED; ! hidewin(sc); ! return 0; ! } ! DELAY(1); } ! DPRINT3("dgb%d: got memory after %d us\n",unit,i); ! } mem=sc->vmem; *************** *** 671,683 **** } if(sc->type==PCXEVE) { ! ptr= mem+setinitwin(sc,BIOSCODE); for(i=0; iport,FEPCLR); addr=setwin(sc,MISCGLOBAL); for(i=0; i<200000; i++) { --- 685,728 ---- } if(sc->type==PCXEVE) { ! /* set window 7 */ ! outb(sc->port+1,0xFF); ! ! ptr= mem+(BIOSCODE & 0x1FFF); for(i=0; i=5) { + printf("dgb%d: 4th memory test (BIOS load) fails\n",unit); + break; + } + } + outb(sc->port,FEPCLR); + setwin(sc,0); + + for(i=0; (inb(sc->port) & FEPMASK) != FEPCLR ; i++) { + if(i>10000) { + printf("dgb%d: BIOS start failed\n",dev->id_unit); + sc->status=DISABLED; + hidewin(sc); + return 0; + } + DELAY(1); + } + + DPRINT3("dgb%d: reset dropped after %d us\n",unit,i); + addr=setwin(sc,MISCGLOBAL); for(i=0; i<200000; i++) { *************** *** 1089,1100 **** s=spltty(); port->closing=1; - port->used=0; linesw[tp->t_line].l_close(tp,flag); dgb_drain_or_flush(port); dgbhardclose(port); ttyclose(tp); port->closing=0; wakeup(&port->closing); splx(s); --- 1134,1145 ---- s=spltty(); port->closing=1; linesw[tp->t_line].l_close(tp,flag); dgb_drain_or_flush(port); dgbhardclose(port); ttyclose(tp); port->closing=0; wakeup(&port->closing); + port->used=0; splx(s); *************** *** 1488,1503 **** dt->c_ospeed = tp->t_ospeed; } if(cmd==TIOCSETAW || cmd==TIOCSETAF) port->mustdrain=1; error = linesw[tp->t_line].l_ioctl(tp, cmd, data, flag, p); - port->mustdrain=0; - if (error >= 0) return error; error = ttioctl(tp, cmd, data, flag); if (error >= 0) return error; s = spltty(); --- 1533,1561 ---- dt->c_ospeed = tp->t_ospeed; } + if(cmd==TIOCSTOP) { + setwin(sc,0); + fepcmd(port, PAUSETX, 0, 0, 0, 0); + hidewin(sc); + return 0; + } else if(cmd==TIOCSTART) { + setwin(sc,0); + fepcmd(port, RESUMETX, 0, 0, 0, 0); + hidewin(sc); + return 0; + } + if(cmd==TIOCSETAW || cmd==TIOCSETAF) port->mustdrain=1; error = linesw[tp->t_line].l_ioctl(tp, cmd, data, flag, p); if (error >= 0) return error; error = ttioctl(tp, cmd, data, flag); + + port->mustdrain=0; + if (error >= 0) return error; s = spltty(); *************** *** 1703,1709 **** tail=bc->tout; head=bc->tin; ! while(tail!=head && tail!=lasttail) { DPRINT5("dgb%d: port %d: flush: head=%d tail=%d\n", port->unit, port->pnum, head, tail); --- 1761,1767 ---- tail=bc->tout; head=bc->tin; ! while(tail!=head /* && tail!=lasttail */ ) { DPRINT5("dgb%d: port %d: flush: head=%d tail=%d\n", port->unit, port->pnum, head, tail); *** 1.4 1995/07/13 08:07:46 --- dgreg.h 1995/08/10 02:17:47 *************** *** 1,5 **** /*- ! * dgreg.h $Id: dgreg.h,v 1.4 1995/07/13 08:07:46 root Exp $ * * Copyright (C) 1995 by Serge Babkin * --- 1,5 ---- /*- ! * dgreg.h $Id: dgreg.h,v 1.6 1995/07/26 08:51:42 root Exp root $ * * Copyright (C) 1995 by Serge Babkin * *************** *** 22,28 **** * babkin@hq.icb.chel.su */ ! /* #define DEBUG */ #define MAX_DGB_PORTS 32 --- 22,28 ---- * babkin@hq.icb.chel.su */ ! #define DEBUG #define MAX_DGB_PORTS 32 *************** *** 344,357 **** volatile struct global_data *mailbox; }; /* debugging printout */ #ifdef DEBUG ! # define DPRINT1(a1) (debug ? printf(a1) : 0) ! # define DPRINT2(a1,a2) (debug ? printf(a1,a2) : 0) ! # define DPRINT3(a1,a2,a3) (debug ? printf(a1,a2,a3) : 0) ! # define DPRINT4(a1,a2,a3,a4) (debug ? printf(a1,a2,a3,a4) : 0) ! # define DPRINT5(a1,a2,a3,a4,a5) (debug ? printf(a1,a2,a3,a4,a5) : 0) #else # define DPRINT1(a1) # define DPRINT2(a1,a2) --- 344,362 ---- volatile struct global_data *mailbox; }; + /* flags for configuring */ + + #define DGBFLAG_ALTPIN 0x0001 /* chande DCD and DCD */ + #define DGBFLAG_NOWIN 0x0002 /* use windowed PC/Xe as non-windowed */ + /* debugging printout */ #ifdef DEBUG ! # define DPRINT1(a1) (dgbdebug ? printf(a1) : 0) ! # define DPRINT2(a1,a2) (dgbdebug ? printf(a1,a2) : 0) ! # define DPRINT3(a1,a2,a3) (dgbdebug ? printf(a1,a2,a3) : 0) ! # define DPRINT4(a1,a2,a3,a4) (dgbdebug ? printf(a1,a2,a3,a4) : 0) ! # define DPRINT5(a1,a2,a3,a4,a5) (dgbdebug ? printf(a1,a2,a3,a4,a5) : 0) #else # define DPRINT1(a1) # define DPRINT2(a1,a2) --------------------------- cut here ------------------------------------ Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Aug 29 23:48:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA13760 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 23:48:00 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA13746 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 23:47:23 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA18624 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 23:46:24 -0700 Received: from sun-lamp.pc.cs.cmu.edu (SUN-LAMP.PC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.194.45]) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA17758 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:28:07 -0700 Received: from pain.lcs.mit.edu (pain.lcs.mit.edu [128.52.46.239]) by sun-lamp.pc.cs.cmu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id SAA03162; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:28:10 -0400 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pain.lcs.mit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA06207; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:30:55 -0400 Received: from apple.com by pain.lcs.mit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA06152 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:14:29 -0400 Received: by apple.com with SMTP (5.61/8-Oct-1993-eef) id AA15657; Tue, 29 Aug 95 11:14:18 -0700 for netbsd-bugs@netbsd.org From: "Erik E. Fair" (Internet Architect) Subject: SECURITY ALERT: syslog(3) To: staff@apple.com, cog@taurus.apple.com Cc: netbsd-bugs@NetBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 29 Aug 95 11:13:50 -0700 Message-Id: <15616.809720030@apple.com> X-Loop: netbsd-bugs@NetBSD.ORG Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: sendmail-beta-request@mastodon.CS.Berkeley.EDU Received: from mastodon.CS.Berkeley.EDU by apple.com with SMTP (5.61/8-Oct-1993-eef) id AA26928; Tue, 29 Aug 95 08:57:57 -0700 for fair Received: from mastodon.CS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by mastodon.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA18524; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:33:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199508291533.IAA18524@mastodon.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: sendmail-vendors@mastodon.CS.Berkeley.EDU, sendmail-beta@mastodon.CS.Berkeley.EDU From: Eric Allman Cc: Edward DeHart Subject: SECURITY ALERT: syslog(3) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:33:00 -0700 Sender: eric@mastodon.CS.Berkeley.EDU This problem is arguably incidental to sendmail, but it is clear that sendmail is one vector for the attack. Enclosed is the 8lgm announcement and an updated version of syslog(3) (based on the 4.4bsd version -- YMMV) that tries to get around the problem. Note that it does a better job if you have vsnprintf available. This has not been extensively tested, and I know that it is a bit rough; in particular, it doesn't compile on systems that have changed the return value of syslog from void to int (e.g., OSF/1). The changes should be pretty obvious there. I have tried to make it possible for it to work with the vendor file, but I'm including that anyhow just in case you want to take the whole thing. Please let me know if you encounter any problems or make any enhancements. I'll probably post something more publically in a day or two. eric - ------- Forwarded Message Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 03:18:01 GMT From: "[8lgm] Security Team" <8lgm@8lgm.org> Reply-To: "[8lgm] Security Team" <8lgm@8lgm.org> To: "comp.mail.sendmail mail newsgroup" Subject: [8lgm]-Advisory-22.UNIX.syslog.2-Aug-1995 ============================================================================= Virtual Domain Hosting Services provided by The FOURnet Information Network mail webserv@FOUR.net or see http://www.four.net ============================================================================= [8lgm]-Advisory-22.UNIX.syslog.2-Aug-1995 VULNERABLE PROGRAMS: All programs calling syslog(3) with user supplied data, without checking argument lengths. KNOWN VULNERABLE PLATFORMS: SunOS 4.1.* KNOWN SECURE PLATFORMS: None at present. DESCRIPTION: syslog(3) uses an internal buffer to build messages. However it performs no bound checking, and relies on the caller to check arguments passed to it. IMPACT: Local and remote users can obtain root access. REPEAT BY: We have written an example exploit to overwrite syslog(3)'s internal buffer using SunOS sendmail(8). However due to the severity of this problem, this code will not be made available to anyone at this time. Please note that the exploit was fairly straightforward to put together, therefore expect exploits to be widely available soon after the release of this advisory. Here is a edited sample of using a modified telnet client to obtain a root shell through SunOS sendmail(8) on a sparc based machine. legless[8lgm]% syslog_telnet localhost smtp Trying 127.0.0.1 ... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. 220 legless.8lgm.org Sendmail 4.1/SMI-4.1 ready at Sun,\ 27 Aug 95 15:56:27 BST mail from: root 250 root... Sender ok rcpt to: root 250 root... Recipient ok data 354 Enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself ^] syslog_telnet> ### At this point, we provide some information to the modified ### telnet client about the remote host. Then sparc instructions ### are sent over the link within the body of the message to ### execute a shell. ### ### As soon as data is finished (with .), sendmail will eventually ### report, through syslog(3), data about this message. syslog's ### internal buffer will be overwritten, and our supplied ### instructions are executed. Hit , then . . /usr/bin/id; uid=0(root) gid=0(wheel) groups=0(wheel) /bin/sh: ^M: not found uptime; 3:57pm up 1:25, 5 users, load average: 0.11, 0.05, 0.00 /bin/sh: ^M: not found exit; Connection closed by foreign host. ### Here we can see that sendmail has execed a shell as root, ### and that we can type commands. (lines ending in ; are ### user input through the telnet client). ### ### This exploit could be further expanded upon to encapsulate ### instructions within the body of a message, which can then ### be mailed out to a site (ie without the necessity to connect ### directly to the smtp port). This may be used to bypass ### firewalls. WORKAROUNDS: We have two methods to ensure that syslog(3) can not be used in the above manner. Fix syslog(3), to perform bound checking. Shared libraries can be then fixed to use the new function. Statically linked programs will require rebuilding. Alternatively, ensure all calls to syslog(3), by all programs, check all arguments passed to syslog(3). Ideally both of the above should be implemented. FIX: Contact vendors for fixes. STATUS UPDATE: The file: [8lgm]-Advisory-22.UNIX.syslog.2-Aug-1995.README will be created on www.8lgm.org. This will contain updates on any further versions which are found to be vulnerable, and any other information received pertaining to this advisory. - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FEEDBACK AND CONTACT INFORMATION: majordomo@8lgm.org (Mailing list requests - try 'help' for details) 8lgm@8lgm.org (Everything else) 8LGM FILESERVER: All [8LGM] advisories may be obtained via the [8LGM] fileserver. For details, 'echo help | mail 8lgm-fileserver@8lgm.org' 8LGM WWW SERVER: [8LGM]'s web server can be reached at http://www.8lgm.org. This contains details of all 8LGM advisories and other useful information. =========================================================================== - - -- - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ echo help | mail 8lgm-fileserver@8lgm.org (Fileserver help) majordomo@8lgm.org (Request to be added to list) 8lgm@8lgm.org (General enquiries) ******* VISIT 8LGM ON THE WORLD WIDE WEB: http://www.8lgm.org ******** - ------- End of Forwarded Message - ------- syslog.h /* * Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1988, 1993 * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * This product includes software developed by the University of * California, Berkeley and its contributors. * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software * without specific prior written permission. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. * * @(#)syslog.h 8.1 (Berkeley) 6/2/93 */ #define _PATH_LOG "/dev/log" /* * priorities/facilities are encoded into a single 32-bit quantity, where the * bottom 3 bits are the priority (0-7) and the top 28 bits are the facility * (0-big number). Both the priorities and the facilities map roughly * one-to-one to strings in the syslogd(8) source code. This mapping is * included in this file. * * priorities (these are ordered) */ #define LOG_EMERG 0 /* system is unusable */ #define LOG_ALERT 1 /* action must be taken immediately */ #define LOG_CRIT 2 /* critical conditions */ #define LOG_ERR 3 /* error conditions */ #define LOG_WARNING 4 /* warning conditions */ #define LOG_NOTICE 5 /* normal but significant condition */ #define LOG_INFO 6 /* informational */ #define LOG_DEBUG 7 /* debug-level messages */ #define LOG_PRIMASK 0x07 /* mask to extract priority part (internal) */ /* extract priority */ #define LOG_PRI(p) ((p) & LOG_PRIMASK) #define LOG_MAKEPRI(fac, pri) (((fac) << 3) | (pri)) #ifdef SYSLOG_NAMES #define INTERNAL_NOPRI 0x10 /* the "no priority" priority */ /* mark "facility" */ #define INTERNAL_MARK LOG_MAKEPRI(LOG_NFACILITIES, 0) typedef struct _code { char *c_name; int c_val; } CODE; CODE prioritynames[] = { "alert", LOG_ALERT, "crit", LOG_CRIT, "debug", LOG_DEBUG, "emerg", LOG_EMERG, "err", LOG_ERR, "error", LOG_ERR, /* DEPRECATED */ "info", LOG_INFO, "none", INTERNAL_NOPRI, /* INTERNAL */ "notice", LOG_NOTICE, "panic", LOG_EMERG, /* DEPRECATED */ "warn", LOG_WARNING, /* DEPRECATED */ "warning", LOG_WARNING, NULL, -1, }; #endif /* facility codes */ #define LOG_KERN (0<<3) /* kernel messages */ #define LOG_USER (1<<3) /* random user-level messages */ #define LOG_MAIL (2<<3) /* mail system */ #define LOG_DAEMON (3<<3) /* system daemons */ #define LOG_AUTH (4<<3) /* security/authorization messages */ #define LOG_SYSLOG (5<<3) /* messages generated internally by syslogd */ #define LOG_LPR (6<<3) /* line printer subsystem */ #define LOG_NEWS (7<<3) /* network news subsystem */ #define LOG_UUCP (8<<3) /* UUCP subsystem */ #define LOG_CRON (9<<3) /* clock daemon */ #define LOG_AUTHPRIV (10<<3) /* security/authorization messages (private) */ #define LOG_FTP (11<<3) /* ftp daemon */ /* other codes through 15 reserved for system use */ #define LOG_LOCAL0 (16<<3) /* reserved for local use */ #define LOG_LOCAL1 (17<<3) /* reserved for local use */ #define LOG_LOCAL2 (18<<3) /* reserved for local use */ #define LOG_LOCAL3 (19<<3) /* reserved for local use */ #define LOG_LOCAL4 (20<<3) /* reserved for local use */ #define LOG_LOCAL5 (21<<3) /* reserved for local use */ #define LOG_LOCAL6 (22<<3) /* reserved for local use */ #define LOG_LOCAL7 (23<<3) /* reserved for local use */ #define LOG_NFACILITIES 24 /* current number of facilities */ #define LOG_FACMASK 0x03f8 /* mask to extract facility part */ /* facility of pri */ #define LOG_FAC(p) (((p) & LOG_FACMASK) >> 3) #ifdef SYSLOG_NAMES CODE facilitynames[] = { "auth", LOG_AUTH, "authpriv", LOG_AUTHPRIV, "cron", LOG_CRON, "daemon", LOG_DAEMON, "ftp", LOG_FTP, "kern", LOG_KERN, "lpr", LOG_LPR, "mail", LOG_MAIL, "mark", INTERNAL_MARK, /* INTERNAL */ "news", LOG_NEWS, "security", LOG_AUTH, /* DEPRECATED */ "syslog", LOG_SYSLOG, "user", LOG_USER, "uucp", LOG_UUCP, "local0", LOG_LOCAL0, "local1", LOG_LOCAL1, "local2", LOG_LOCAL2, "local3", LOG_LOCAL3, "local4", LOG_LOCAL4, "local5", LOG_LOCAL5, "local6", LOG_LOCAL6, "local7", LOG_LOCAL7, NULL, -1, }; #endif #ifdef KERNEL #define LOG_PRINTF -1 /* pseudo-priority to indicate use of printf */ #endif /* * arguments to setlogmask. */ #define LOG_MASK(pri) (1 << (pri)) /* mask for one priority */ #define LOG_UPTO(pri) ((1 << ((pri)+1)) - 1) /* all priorities through pri */ /* * Option flags for openlog. * * LOG_ODELAY no longer does anything. * LOG_NDELAY is the inverse of what it used to be. */ #define LOG_PID 0x01 /* log the pid with each message */ #define LOG_CONS 0x02 /* log on the console if errors in sending */ #define LOG_ODELAY 0x04 /* delay open until first syslog() (default) */ #define LOG_NDELAY 0x08 /* don't delay open */ #define LOG_NOWAIT 0x10 /* don't wait for console forks: DEPRECATED */ #define LOG_PERROR 0x20 /* log to stderr as well */ #ifndef KERNEL /* * Don't use va_list in the vsyslog() prototype. Va_list is typedef'd in two * places ( and ), so if we include one * of them here we may collide with the utility's includes. It's unreasonable * for utilities to have to include one of them to include syslog.h, so we get * _BSD_VA_LIST_ from and use it. */ #include #include __BEGIN_DECLS void closelog __P((void)); void openlog __P((const char *, int, int)); int setlogmask __P((int)); void syslog __P((int, const char *, ...)); void vsyslog __P((int, const char *, _BSD_VA_LIST_)); __END_DECLS #endif /* !KERNEL */ - ------- syslog.c /* * Copyright (c) 1983, 1988, 1993 * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * This product includes software developed by the University of * California, Berkeley and its contributors. * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software * without specific prior written permission. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. */ #if defined(LIBC_SCCS) && !defined(lint) static char sccsid[] = "@(#)syslog.c 8.7 (Berkeley) 8/29/95"; #endif /* LIBC_SCCS and not lint */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #ifdef BSD4_4 # include #else # ifndef _PATH_CONSOLE # define _PATH_CONSOLE "/dev/console" # endif # ifndef _PATH_LOG # define _PATH_LOG "/dev/log" # endif #endif #if __STDC__ # include #else # include # define const /* */ #endif #ifndef USESNPRINTF # if defined(BSD4_4) # define USESNPRINTF 1 /* has snprintf(3), vsnprintf(3), etc. */ # else # define USESNPRINTF 0 /* cheesy old C library */ # endif #endif #ifndef LOG_PERROR # define LOG_PERROR 0 #endif #define BUFSLOP 1024 /* overflow space */ static int LogFile = -1; /* fd for log */ static int connected; /* have done connect */ static int LogStat = 0; /* status bits, set by openlog() */ static const char *LogTag = NULL; /* string to tag the entry with */ static int LogFacility = LOG_USER; /* default facility code */ static int LogMask = 0xff; /* mask of priorities to be logged */ extern char *__progname; /* Program name, from crt0. */ /* * syslog, vsyslog -- * print message on log file; output is intended for syslogd(8). */ void #if __STDC__ syslog(int pri, const char *fmt, ...) #else syslog(pri, fmt, va_alist) int pri; char *fmt; va_dcl #endif { va_list ap; extern void vsyslog(); #if __STDC__ va_start(ap, fmt); #else va_start(ap); #endif vsyslog(pri, fmt, ap); va_end(ap); } void vsyslog(pri, fmt, ap) int pri; register const char *fmt; va_list ap; { register int cnt; register char ch, *p, *t; time_t now; int fd, saved_errno; int panic = 0; static int maxsend = BUFSIZ; char *stdp, fmt_cpy[1024], tbuf[BUFSIZ + BUFSLOP]; extern void openlog(); #define INTERNALLOG LOG_ERR|LOG_CONS|LOG_PERROR|LOG_PID /* Check for invalid bits. */ if (pri & ~(LOG_PRIMASK|LOG_FACMASK)) { syslog(INTERNALLOG, "syslog: unknown facility/priority: %x", pri); pri &= LOG_PRIMASK|LOG_FACMASK; } /* Check priority against setlogmask values. */ if (!(LOG_MASK(LOG_PRI(pri)) & LogMask)) return; saved_errno = errno; /* Set default facility if none specified. */ if ((pri & LOG_FACMASK) == 0) pri |= LogFacility; /* Get connected. */ if (!connected) openlog(LogTag, LogStat | LOG_NDELAY, 0); /* Build the message. */ (void)time(&now); sprintf(tbuf, "<%d>", pri); p = tbuf + strlen(tbuf); strftime(p, sizeof (tbuf) - (p - tbuf), "%h %e %T ", localtime(&now)); p += strlen(p); stdp = p; if (LogTag == NULL) LogTag = __progname; if (LogTag != NULL) { sprintf(p, "%s", LogTag); p += strlen(p); } if (LogStat & LOG_PID) { sprintf(p, "[%d]", getpid()); p += strlen(p); } if (LogTag != NULL) { *p++ = ':'; *p++ = ' '; } /* Substitute error message for %m. */ for (t = fmt_cpy; ch = *fmt; ++fmt) if (ch == '%' && fmt[1] == 'm') { ++fmt; sprintf(t, "%s", strerror(saved_errno)); t += strlen(t); } else *t++ = ch; *t = '\0'; #if USESNPRINTF cnt = maxsend - (p - tbuf) + 1; p += vsnprintf(p, cnt, fmt_cpy, ap); cnt = p - tbuf; #else p += vsprintf(p, fmt_cpy, ap); cnt = p - tbuf; if (cnt > sizeof tbuf) { /* Panic condition. */ panic = 1; } if (cnt > maxsend) cnt = maxsend; #endif /* Output to stderr if requested. */ if (LogStat & LOG_PERROR) { struct iovec iov[2]; register struct iovec *v = iov; v->iov_base = stdp; v->iov_len = cnt - (stdp - tbuf); ++v; v->iov_base = "\n"; v->iov_len = 1; (void)writev(STDERR_FILENO, iov, 2); } /* Output the message to the local logger. */ for (;;) { if (send(LogFile, tbuf, cnt, 0) >= 0) goto done; if (errno != EMSGSIZE || maxsend <= 256) break; /* Message was too large -- back it off. */ do { maxsend -= 128; } while (cnt < maxsend && maxsend > 256); cnt = maxsend; } /* * Output the message to the console; don't worry about blocking, * if console blocks everything will. Make sure the error reported * is the one from the syslogd failure. */ if (LogStat & LOG_CONS && (fd = open(_PATH_CONSOLE, O_WRONLY, 0)) >= 0) { (void)strcat(tbuf, "\r\n"); cnt += 2; p = strchr(tbuf, '>') + 1; (void)write(fd, p, cnt - (p - tbuf)); (void)close(fd); } done: #if !USESNPRINTF /* * If we had a buffer overrun, log a panic and abort. * We can't return because our stack is probably toast. */ if (panic) { syslog(LOG_EMERG, "SYSLOG BUFFER OVERRUN -- EXITING"); abort(); } #endif } static struct sockaddr SyslogAddr; /* AF_UNIX address of local logger */ void openlog(ident, logstat, logfac) const char *ident; int logstat, logfac; { if (ident != NULL) LogTag = ident; LogStat = logstat; if (logfac != 0 && (logfac &~ LOG_FACMASK) == 0) LogFacility = logfac; if (LogFile == -1) { SyslogAddr.sa_family = AF_UNIX; (void)strncpy(SyslogAddr.sa_data, _PATH_LOG, sizeof(SyslogAddr.sa_data)); if (LogStat & LOG_NDELAY) { if ((LogFile = socket(AF_UNIX, SOCK_DGRAM, 0)) == -1) return; (void)fcntl(LogFile, F_SETFD, 1); } } if (LogFile != -1 && !connected) if (connect(LogFile, &SyslogAddr, sizeof(SyslogAddr)) == -1) { (void)close(LogFile); LogFile = -1; } else connected = 1; } void closelog() { (void)close(LogFile); LogFile = -1; connected = 0; } /* setlogmask -- set the log mask level */ int setlogmask(pmask) int pmask; { int omask; omask = LogMask; if (pmask != 0) LogMask = pmask; return (omask); } ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 00:04:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA14530 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:04:48 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA14510 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:04:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA05981; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:54:21 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199508300654.IAA05981@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Does fdisk work? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:54:21 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: bob@luke.pmr.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508300222.TAA05612@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 29, 95 07:21:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1178 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Does fdisk work for others? I have not been able to get it to > > write anything on the disk. I run it with the -i flag and answer > > all the questions in the affirmative, yet upon running it again > > (or disklabel) the disk still has no valid partion table (at least > > not what I specified). This on both a 2.0.5R and a 950726-SNAP > > level system. > > > > All I can figure is that either fdisk is terminally broken or I am > > missing something very fundamental about its use. :-(( > > fdisk -u, the -u option is required if you wish to write to the > disk, -i write a master boot record, but no partition table. as pointed out by someone else, fdisk should be run on /dev/rwd0, not on /dev/rwd0d as it is by default and used to work before. That's the trick. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 00:19:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA15174 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:19:44 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA15163 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:19:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA02006; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:14:33 -0700 To: Julian Elischer cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fdisk & disklabel troubles In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:44:35 PDT." <199508291844.LAA17364@ref.tfs.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:14:33 -0700 Message-ID: <2004.809766873@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > OK I originally hacked fdisk together from the MACH utility "DISKUTIL" No offense, but fdisk is creeping hell-spawn from the deepest depths of hades! The interface sucks, the presentation sucks, the argument handling sucks and I'd say that the error checking sucks except for the fact that there isn't any. :-) To paraphrase Bevis and Butthead: "Huh huh. This command sucks. Huh huh huh! Yeah! Heh heh! Sure does! If all commands looked like fdisk, then all commands would suck! All the time! Heh heh!" Anyone checked out BSD/OS's `disksetup' command lately? It doesn't suck anywhere near as bad! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 00:24:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA15481 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:24:30 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user53.lightside.com [198.81.209.53]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA15463 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:24:11 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA00209; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:24:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:24:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ATAPI & other problems in FreeBSD-current Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just downloaded FreeBSD-current kernel (everything outside of /usr/src/sys is 2.0.5-RELEASE) and am having some major problems. As this is my first time using the -current kernel (and I only did so to try out the ATAPI driver), I may be doing something stupid. Attached to this letter is my kernel config file, if that helps matters. Anyway, my problems with this kernel were: 1) In order to compile, I had to patch the /usr/src/sys/sys/types.h file back to its original values for off_t and pid_t: *** types.h Tue Aug 29 12:49:56 1995 --- types.h.orig Tue Aug 29 12:49:29 1995 *************** *** 69,76 **** typedef unsigned long ino_t; /* inode number */ typedef unsigned short mode_t; /* permissions */ typedef unsigned short nlink_t; /* link count */ ! typedef quad_t off_t; /* file offset */ ! typedef long pid_t; /* process id */ typedef long segsz_t; /* segment size */ typedef long swblk_t; /* swap offset */ typedef unsigned long uid_t; /* user id */ --- 69,76 ---- typedef unsigned long ino_t; /* inode number */ typedef unsigned short mode_t; /* permissions */ typedef unsigned short nlink_t; /* link count */ ! typedef _BSD_OFF_T_ off_t; /* file offset */ ! typedef _BSD_PID_T_ pid_t; /* process id */ typedef long segsz_t; /* segment size */ typedef long swblk_t; /* swap offset */ typedef unsigned long uid_t; /* user id */ 2) Programs like 'ps' will fail with a "ps: proc size mismatch (5920 total, 620 chunks)" (the number for total grows as time goes on). They worked fine under my 2.0.5-RELEASE custom kernel. I know these kind of programs poke around in the kernel data structures but you don't have to recompile them every time you upgrade kernel versions, do you? 3) With the 2.2-current kernel my Soundblaster 16 audio doesn't work anymore. Any programs that try to use /dev/audio or /dev/dsp will hang with only a slight static sound coming through the speakers. The sound card worked fine under 2.0.5-RELEASE. As for the new ATAPI driver, it works okay for data CD's on my Mitsumi FX400_02, but I can't get CD Audio to work (I'm using WorkMan as a test program). I tried /dev/wcd0a, /dev/wcd0c, /dev/rwcd0a, and /dev/rwcd0c, and the most I could get was a "CD length read: Invalid argument" when using /dev/wcd0a. Can anyone tell me what (if anything) I'm doing wrong? Thanks in advance! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # GENERIC -- Generic machine with WD/AHx/NCR/BTx family disks # # GENERIC,v 1.45.2.3 1995/06/05 21:50:41 jkh Exp # machine "i386" #cpu "I386_CPU" cpu "I486_CPU" #cpu "I586_CPU" ident MYKERNEL maxusers 4 #options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem #options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 #options "SCSI_DELAY=15" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console # These three lines support System V IPC and shared memory options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG config kernel root on wd1a controller isa0 #controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 #disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 tape ft0 at fdc0 drive 2 controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr #disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 #disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 options ATAPI #Enable ATAPI support for IDE bus device wcd0 #IDE CD-ROM #controller ncr0 #controller ahc0 #controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector btintr #controller uha0 at isa? port "IO_UHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector uhaintr #controller ahc1 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahcintr #controller ahb0 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahbintr #controller aha0 at isa? port "IO_AHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector ahaintr #controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector aicintr #controller nca0 at isa? port 0x1f88 bio irq 10 vector ncaintr #controller nca1 at isa? port 0x350 bio irq 5 vector ncaintr #controller sea0 at isa? bio irq 5 iomem 0xc8000 iosiz 0x2000 vector seaintr #controller scbus0 #device sd0 #device st0 #device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows #device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 5 drq 1 vector wtintr #device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 10 vector mcdintr #device mcd1 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector mcdintr #controller matcd0 at isa? port ? bio #device scd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver #device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint #options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" # pcvt running on FreeBSD 2.1 options XSERVER # include code for XFree86 device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr #device sio2 at isa? port "IO_COM3" tty irq 5 vector siointr #device sio3 at isa? port "IO_COM4" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr #device lpt1 at isa? port? tty #device lpt2 at isa? port? tty # Order is important here due to intrusive probes, do *not* alphabetize # this list of network interfaces until the probes have been fixed. # Right now it appears that the ie0 must be probed before ep0. See # revision 1.20 of this file. #device de0 #device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device ed1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device ie0 at isa? port 0x360 net irq 7 iomem 0xd0000 vector ieintr #device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr #device ix0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz 32768 vector ixintr #device le0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 vector le_intr #device lnc0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device lnc1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector zeintr #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 vector zpintr controller snd0 device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 pseudo-device speaker pseudo-device loop #pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log #pseudo-device sl 1 # ijppp uses tun instead of ppp device #pseudo-device ppp 1 pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 00:26:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA15616 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:26:09 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA15606 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:25:52 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA00343; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:25:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Hittinger cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb is intense In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:15:46 EDT." <199508291815.OAA02459@ns1.win.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 00:25:05 -0700 Message-ID: <341.809767505@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > We have a rather large password file and I can hear the system groaning > whenever someone changes their password. Top shows the process go to > about 20-30% of the P90 for around 2 or 3 minutes. Swap space in use > increases by around 15% during this period. > > chpass/passwd all pass the buck to pwd_mkdb which recreates the entire > file. > > Is there a utility which updates the various keys in the db for just one > particular user id? Would the db routines that pwd_mkdb calls actually > support the in-place update of a particular record? :-) You should probably check the cache parameters for the db(3) code. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 01:07:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA17713 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:07:47 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA17702 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:07:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA02326; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:06:53 -0700 To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: pilot error on my part or feedback on the 2.1 snap In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:38:40 EST." <199508300138.VAA04525@exalt.x.org> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:06:53 -0700 Message-ID: <2324.809770013@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've tried quite a few different ways through the menus, but one thing > that's confounded me more than once was, when trying to (W)rite the > disklabel, to have it tell me that I have to label the disk in order > to complete this operation. Now this seems confusing when I'm in > disklabel, trying to disklabel the disk, to have it tell me I need to > label the disk in order to label the disk. :-) Hmmmmm. I may have spazzed.. Let me take a look at this! > But even more confounding is, when it finally seems willing to write > the label, to have the kernel panic with the message "biodone: buffer > not busy", sync the disk and reboot. So far this has happened several > times and I have been otherwise unsuccessful in installing. Woops! That's no good! I wonder what's going on HERE.. > Is this somehow a pilot error or should I fall back to 2.0.5? Why not fall back for now? I'll have another snapshot for you shortly that goes FAR beyond the last 2.1 snap and I'd much rather be finding the bugs in that one.. Not that I'm not interested in the other bugs, but if we're going to try to work through what looks to be a fairly evil set of problems, let's try to do it with more recent bits. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 01:11:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA17838 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:11:09 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA17829 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:11:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA02337; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:09:55 -0700 To: Piero@strider.ibenet.it cc: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:38:24 +0200." <199508300138.DAA00296@strider.ibenet.it> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:09:55 -0700 Message-ID: <2335.809770195@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >Oh yeh, the docs should have something in big bold letters about linking > > >/dev/mouse to /dev/cuaa0 under whatever name it ends up as... > > > > That would be bogus. X works with the vanilla POSIX port ttyd0 and > > always has. > > I'd not say it's "bogus". Maybe it's redundant, or strictly I agree. I was already planning to put something in the 2.1 install that said "What sort of mouse do you have? " and then link /dev/mouse to it (and maybe suggest that they rebuild a kernel, if it's a PS/2 mouse). Between serial meeces on different ports, PS/2 mice, and busmeeces, it's a problem for new users. Making X standardise on /dev/mouse was going to be my next request of those folks and we'd just make sure the link was in place. For that matter, if they have a modem on any port I'd be inclined to make them a /dev/modem link too, but that's another topic. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 01:20:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA18052 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:20:17 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18022 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:19:02 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA26623; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:14:16 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:14:16 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508300814.SAA26623@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, piero@strider.ibenet.it Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >Oh yeh, the docs should have something in big bold letters about linking >> >/dev/mouse to /dev/cuaa0 under whatever name it ends up as... >> >> That would be bogus. X works with the vanilla POSIX port ttyd0 and >> always has. >I'd not say it's "bogus". Maybe it's redundant, or strictly >speaking "unnececessary", but as I suggested on -install I think I meant cuaa0 would be bogus. Who runs getty on their mouse port? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 01:21:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA18122 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:21:10 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18116 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:21:03 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA02370; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:20:17 -0700 To: Computer Annex cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Developement In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:41:51 MDT." Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:20:17 -0700 Message-ID: <2368.809770817@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > There are a group of students at Montana State University Billings that > are interested in joining the team for developement of the FreeBSD > system. Although we are not Unix gurus I feel that our group could > contribute to the developement of FreeBSD. Any info and guidance would > be greatly appreciated. Well, by all means - dive in! What are you interested in doing? A lot of people ask us what they should do, then look with distaste at whatever we've taken off the top of our TODO list (which sits at the top of /usr/src) and thrown at them and they vanish again. This is clearly sub-optimal and suggests that people don't just want to do _anything_, they want to do something _interesting_! A wholly understandable sentiment, except for the difficult problem of knowing what interests a given individual. I suggest that you guys spend a little time looking through the system and pick something that interests you. Maybe an emulation topic: DOS? Windows? Linux? SCO? The emulation for all of those (especially the first two) needs some serious work and there's even existing sample code scattered throughout the Linux and NetBSD camps that one could use. Or how about an interface topic? We need a "GUI" object library for building nifty system management types of interfaces (adduser/configure disk/build kernel/etc all rolled into one utility) that will work on everything from a vt100 terminal to an X display, but we have no general purpose library for making that easy. Something that a team of motivated students could certainly do, and it'd even be kind of interesting. Somebody like Liant or Inmark might even want to hire you guys afterwards if you do a good job and make your names with it! :-) Or how about an operating systems topic? A VMS logical names mechanism for UNIX? A system for saving and restoring complete process trees to/from disk? Variant symbolic links? An AIX-style volume manager? There's LOTS of stuff to do! Determining what you guys are personally most motivated to do should be the #1 priority, however, since if you pick something that's beyond/below your abilities or just not very interesting then you're not going to do it, all the best intentions in the world aside.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 01:22:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA18197 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:22:26 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18185 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:22:11 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA20528 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:21:40 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA29463 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:21:40 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA02162 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:30:58 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508300730.JAA02162@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: postmaster@yggdrasil.com: Yggdrasil Product Information To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:30:57 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508300049.RAA04908@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 29, 95 05:49:55 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 635 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > Are there any legal problems with re-importing the Net2 code here? As > > far as i can see, this program originated at Berkeley: > > Yes, there are some very big legal problems here, the agreement with USL > states ``cease all use of Net/2'' once the 4.4 LIte tape is avaliable. I've been afraid of this legal bull***, that's why i've been asking. Wolfram! Revamp in Perl? I can send you a copy of the 1.1.5.1 code for a reference of the old features. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 01:22:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA18205 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:22:30 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18186 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:22:14 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA20457; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:20:52 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA29459; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:20:51 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA02080; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:23:14 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508300723.JAA02080@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Chasing the ghost (DDB usage tips). To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:23:13 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: rashid@haven.ios.com (Rashid Karimov.) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199508292217.SAA27856@haven.ios.com> from "Rashid Karimov." at Aug 29, 95 06:17:22 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1316 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Rashid Karimov. wrote: > > So if any1 here can provide any tip on DDB usage - > that would be great. Man page is not too helpful > in this sense, /usr/share/FAQ/Text/kernel-debug.FAQ > for example , how can I find if the SCSI driver > is fine and is not locked ? If it is locked - in which > routine and what parameters were passed to it ... > How to find the processes waiting for the resources > and find the reason for them to be in the wait state ? There's a `ps' command, and often you can also guess certain things from the stack backtrace. When looking deep inside some scsi routines, have a printed copy of the sources around, or a second machine where you can browse through the code. Remember the command ``x/iA ,18'' to get a disassembled listing of some portion of code (``x,18'' for the next chunk). You'll need to have a ``feeling'' of what the compiler does. Clearly differentiate between p(rint) and (e)x(amine). Applied to a variable, print will print its address, while examine will print the contents. OTOH, you cannot examine a register, but you can print it (this is usually easier to watch then `show registers'). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 01:31:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA18540 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:31:54 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18527 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:31:47 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA02418; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:31:31 -0700 To: Jake Hamby cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Does fdisk work? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:47:08 PDT." Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:31:31 -0700 Message-ID: <2416.809771491@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > reinstall the EasyBoot MBR from within FreeBSD! Considering my > configuration, what would be the EXACT command to install a master boot > record on my first and second IDE hard drive from within FreeBSD? There isn't one.. :-( Unfortunately, the only command that whaps MBRs out is sysinstall, and that's not a standard part of the system, it's only run at installation time. I'm working on this problem (really really!) for 2.1 and hope to have this problem behind us. For now, I suggest booting DOS and installing BOOTEASY that way. Really strange, BTW, that it doesn't see your second drive! It does mine, and I can boot DOS from either drive using BOOTEASY.. Of course, I'm also using SCSI drives but that shouldn't change anything? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 02:09:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA20585 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 02:09:15 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA20575 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 02:09:07 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA28793; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:07:13 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:07:13 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508300907.TAA28793@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: kaleb@x.org, rkw@dataplex.net Subject: Re: pilot error on my part or feedback on the 2.1 snap Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Personally, I dislike the design decision to subvert the entire concept of >disklabeling simply to conform to MSDOS's way of doing things. But then I >was not allowed to be party to that design decision. >When I changed from 2.0 to 2.0.5, I had to go in and reformat EVERY disk >(all 20Gig) and copy things onto new partitions. It wasn't fun, but now I >am assured that I can remove any disk and use it as a bootable disk on >another system. Urk. Everything except possibly sysinstall supports the old way of doing things. That is the way documented in disklabel(8). The subversion in 2.0 (involving the 'd' partition) no longer exists. Optionally, you can have a fancier form of the subversion. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 02:43:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA21655 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 02:43:16 -0700 Received: from strider.ibenet.it ([194.179.130.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA21642 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 02:42:52 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA01091; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:44:17 +0200 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199508300944.LAA01091@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:44:16 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, piero@strider.ibenet.it, hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com In-Reply-To: <199508300814.SAA26623@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 30, 95 06:14:16 pm Reply-To: Piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 467 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Bruce Evans (Wed Aug 30 10:14:16 1995): > I meant cuaa0 would be bogus. Who runs getty on their mouse port? Of course. 1 [ibe@help] ~ > ll /dev/mouse lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 10 Aug 29 00:33 /dev/mouse@ -> /dev/ttyd0 Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 02:49:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA22319 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 02:49:25 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA22256 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 02:49:07 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA30070; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:46:47 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:46:47 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508300946.TAA30070@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, kaleb@x.org Subject: Re: pilot error on my part or feedback on the 2.1 snap Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >But even more confounding is, when it finally seems willing to write >the label, to have the kernel panic with the message "biodone: buffer >not busy", sync the disk and reboot. So far this has happened several >times and I have been otherwise unsuccessful in installing. That was a bug in the SNAP. >Is this somehow a pilot error or should I fall back to 2.0.5? Label with 2.0.5, then install the SNAP. >is an AC31200F. The disk itself is, as I recall, a Seagate Barracuda, >1222 meg drive, actual geometry reported during the boot probe is 2484 >Cyl, 16 H, 63 Sec, CMOS geometry is 621 Cyl, 64 H, 64 Sec. This machine 63 sectors in the CMOS? c/h/s format only goes up to sector 63. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 03:17:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA24272 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:17:55 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA24262 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:17:52 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA28508; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:49:52 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508301019.TAA28508@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Does fdisk work? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:49:51 +0930 (CST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2416.809771491@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 30, 95 01:31:31 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 991 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > I'm working on this problem (really really!) for 2.1 and hope to > have this problem behind us. For now, I suggest booting DOS and > installing BOOTEASY that way. Really strange, BTW, that it doesn't > see your second drive! It does mine, and I can boot DOS from > either drive using BOOTEASY.. How do you boot DOS from the second disk? I was under the (mis?) understanding that it read the partition boot code out of the first sector in the partition, and that has 0x80 hardcoded in it. (Or do you have DOS on both the first and second disk?) > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 03:42:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA25291 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:42:46 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA25284 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:42:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA03078; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:38:42 -0700 To: Michael Smith cc: jehamby@lightside.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Does fdisk work? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:49:51 +0930." <199508301019.TAA28508@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:38:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3076.809779122@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How do you boot DOS from the second disk? I was under the (mis?) > understanding that it read the partition boot code out of the first > sector in the partition, and that has 0x80 hardcoded in it. > (Or do you have DOS on both the first and second disk?) BOOTEASY handles this for you. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 03:49:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA25558 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:49:05 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA25551 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:48:57 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HUOMXQY2KG000EPI@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:22:57 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id MAA16690 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:35:55 +0200 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:35:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: Christoph Kukulies Subject: Re: *READ THIS* snapshot fixes security hole *READ THIS* (fwd) To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (user alias) Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199508301035.MAA16690@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-type: text Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-length: 1201 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't know if this concerns FreeBSD too but just FYI I'm forwarding this from the NetBSD list: --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de Forwarded message: > From owner-port-i386@netbsd.org Wed Aug 30 01:20:31 1995 > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:13:36 -0700 > From: Robert Dobbs > Message-Id: <199508292113.OAA04498@gabriella.resort.com> > To: current-users@netbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, > tls@rek.tjls.com > Subject: Re: *READ THIS* snapshot fixes security hole *READ THIS* > Sender: owner-port-i386@netbsd.org > Precedence: list > X-Loop: port-i386@NetBSD.ORG > > Here are the files in /bin and /sbin which call syslog() > > BIN > ./date/date.c > > SBIN > ./shutdown/shutdown.c > ./savecore/savecore.c > ./routed/tables.c > ./routed/startup.c > ./routed/main.c > ./routed/input.c > ./reboot/reboot.c > ./nfsiod/nfsiod.c > ./nfsd/nfsd.c > ./newfs/newfs.c > ./mountd/mountd.c > ./init/init.c > ./dmesg/dmesg.c > ./mount_portal/pt_file.c > ./mount_portal/mount_portal.c > ./mount_portal/activate.c > ./mount_portal/conf.c > ./mount_portal/pt_exec.c > ./mount_portal/pt_tcp.c > ./mount_nfs/mount_nfs.c > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 04:00:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA25802 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:00:37 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA25789 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:00:25 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA07870; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:59:34 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508301059.DAA07870@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Does fdisk work? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2416.809771491@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 30, 95 01:31:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1502 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > reinstall the EasyBoot MBR from within FreeBSD! Considering my > > configuration, what would be the EXACT command to install a master boot > > record on my first and second IDE hard drive from within FreeBSD? > > There isn't one.. :-( CATION: What I am about to tell you how to do can have catastrofic effects on your disk. You _MUST_ have BACKUPS and a way to recover your system in case of total failure. dd if=/dev/rwd0 of=/dev/rfd0 bs=512 count=1 #Save current MBR record fdisk /dev/rwd0 | lpr #Hard copy is hard to destroy! dd if=mbrimage of=/dev/rwd0 bs=512 count=1 #SPLAT fdisk -u /dev/rwd0 #Tweak the partition table back :1,$s/rwd0/rwd1/g and do it again... You can get the mgrimage from the booteasy distribution, it will call your *BSD partitions 386BSD :-(. > Unfortunately, the only command that whaps MBRs out is sysinstall, and > that's not a standard part of the system, it's only run at > installation time. > > I'm working on this problem (really really!) for 2.1 and hope to > have this problem behind us. For now, I suggest booting DOS and > installing BOOTEASY that way. Really strange, BTW, that it doesn't > see your second drive! It does mine, and I can boot DOS from > either drive using BOOTEASY.. > > Of course, I'm also using SCSI drives but that shouldn't change anything? wd -> sd :-). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 04:04:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA25979 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:04:23 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA25969 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:04:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA03262; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:02:39 -0700 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: jehamby@lightside.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Does fdisk work? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 03:59:33 PDT." <199508301059.DAA07870@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:02:39 -0700 Message-ID: <3260.809780559@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You can get the mgrimage from the booteasy distribution, it will call your > *BSD partitions 386BSD :-(. If I can get someone more DOS enabled than I to rebuild this with the proper setting for type 0xA5 then that'd be great, otherwise I'll try to do it before I ship 2.1. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 04:14:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA26334 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:14:00 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA26325 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:13:52 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA07934; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:13:22 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508301113.EAA07934@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: pilot error on my part or feedback on the 2.1 snap To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, kaleb@x.org In-Reply-To: <199508300946.TAA30070@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 30, 95 07:46:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1150 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >But even more confounding is, when it finally seems willing to write > >the label, to have the kernel panic with the message "biodone: buffer > >not busy", sync the disk and reboot. So far this has happened several > >times and I have been otherwise unsuccessful in installing. > > That was a bug in the SNAP. > > >Is this somehow a pilot error or should I fall back to 2.0.5? > > Label with 2.0.5, then install the SNAP. > > >is an AC31200F. The disk itself is, as I recall, a Seagate Barracuda, > >1222 meg drive, actual geometry reported during the boot probe is 2484 > >Cyl, 16 H, 63 Sec, CMOS geometry is 621 Cyl, 64 H, 64 Sec. This machine > > 63 sectors in the CMOS? c/h/s format only goes up to sector 63. Sector numbers in fdisk are 1 based, not 0 based. This is due to DOS's same brain damage which was copied into mach, which was then copied into FreeBSD. Someone should go kill: Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1 and remove the 1 bias in fdisk. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 04:18:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA26555 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:18:30 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA26549 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:18:26 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA07944; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:16:50 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508301116.EAA07944@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Does fdisk work? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, jehamby@lightside.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508301019.TAA28508@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Aug 30, 95 07:49:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1225 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > I'm working on this problem (really really!) for 2.1 and hope to > > have this problem behind us. For now, I suggest booting DOS and > > installing BOOTEASY that way. Really strange, BTW, that it doesn't > > see your second drive! It does mine, and I can boot DOS from > > either drive using BOOTEASY.. > > How do you boot DOS from the second disk? I was under the (mis?) > understanding that it read the partition boot code out of the first > sector in the partition, and that has 0x80 hardcoded in it. > (Or do you have DOS on both the first and second disk?) Some, actaully very few, BIOS's get this chunk of code correct as implemented by IBM in the AT BIOS. You start searching for boot devices at the first floppy, if no floppy is in the drive you look at the partition table in the MBR, if there is not 0x80 flag partition you look for at the next drive, if it has no 0x80 flag or does not exists you go look for a second floppy drive with bootable media, if no bootable media you drop to rom basic. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 04:24:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA26751 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:24:45 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA26705 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:24:27 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id NAA27055 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:23:41 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA00975 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:23:41 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA02578 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:38:55 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508300838.KAA02578@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: fdisk & disklabel troubles To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:38:55 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2004.809766873@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 30, 95 00:14:33 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 333 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Anyone checked out BSD/OS's `disksetup' command lately? It > doesn't suck anywhere near as bad! :) Where can one get access to a machine to check for it? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 04:30:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA26920 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:30:14 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA26914 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:30:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA03448; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:29:32 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Subject: Re: fdisk & disklabel troubles In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:38:55 +0200." <199508300838.KAA02578@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:29:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3446.809782172@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Where can one get access to a machine to check for it? I have one here which I'll create you an account on.. Just let me boot the machine out of FreeBSD again first.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 04:32:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA27115 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:32:42 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA27108 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:32:39 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA08142; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:32:15 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508301132.EAA08142@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Does fdisk work? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <3260.809780559@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 30, 95 04:02:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 729 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > You can get the mgrimage from the booteasy distribution, it will call your > > *BSD partitions 386BSD :-(. > > If I can get someone more DOS enabled than I to rebuild this with the > proper setting for type 0xA5 then that'd be great, otherwise I'll try > to do it before I ship 2.1. Install with the one that is done by sysinstall off the 2.0.5 cdrom, then dd if=/dev/rsd0 of=newmgrimage, thats what I did here for my production copy of the mgrimage I use to splat on boxes going out the door. It's also how come I know how to put it on there using FreeBSD :-). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 05:56:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA29348 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 05:56:04 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA29342 ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 05:55:58 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id IAA04704; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:54:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:54:23 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199508301254.IAA04704@healer.com> To: paul@freebsd.org Subject: Re: copyright notices for ports/packages Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm still against installing unecessary files with the binaries for > the same reasons you use above, i.e. diskspace. If the license requires > something's installed with the binaries then do so, otherwise don't. How about an option (check box on the install list, clopt for the command line version) to install them? That makes the user aware that there is a copyright/license file, and leaves it up to them (which it would be in any event) if the want to keep a copy on their disk. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 06:53:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA01562 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 06:53:54 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA01556 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 06:53:50 -0700 Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA19966; Wed, 30 Aug 95 09:53:18 -0400 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id JAA04922; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:53:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199508301353.JAA04922@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: pilot error on my part or feedback on the 2.1 snap In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 30 Aug 1995 04:13:22 EST. <199508301113.EAA07934@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:53:15 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >1222 meg drive, actual geometry reported during the boot probe is 2484 > > >Cyl, 16 H, 63 Sec, CMOS geometry is 621 Cyl, 64 H, 64 Sec. This machine ^^^^^^^ That was a typo, of course I meant 63 Sectors. > > > > 63 sectors in the CMOS? c/h/s format only goes up to sector 63. > > Sector numbers in fdisk are 1 based, not 0 based. This is due to > DOS's same brain damage which was copied into mach, which was then > copied into FreeBSD. > > Someone should go kill: > Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1 > > and remove the 1 bias in fdisk. Many thanks to those who told me that the 2.1-SNAP had a broken disklabel. The 2.0.5 boot-floppy is happily (apparently) installing the 2.1-SNAP as I write this. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY X Consortium From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 07:49:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA04930 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 07:49:12 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA04902 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 07:49:07 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HUOW7QRATC000G84@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:48:18 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id RAA17290 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:01:19 +0200 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:01:19 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: enhancing ftp/ftpd To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Message-id: <199508301501.RAA17290@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ever worried about getting a larger file halfway and the transfer got aborted? Maybe you Americans with your information highway get better ftp transfer rates but here we have miserable ftp rates during the business hours since everyone is clicking around in web browsers. I wonder if anyone tried to amend ftp/ftpd in a way that it gets the 'rest of the file' if a file of the same name exists and the checksum up to the local bytecount matches the remote file. In that case the transfer could resume and append to the existing local file. Any comments? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 08:00:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA05741 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:00:52 -0700 Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA05726 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:00:41 -0700 Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02069; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:55:37 +0200 From: John Hay Message-Id: <199508301455.QAA02069@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: enhancing ftp/ftpd To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph P. Kukulies) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:55:37 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508301501.RAA17290@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at Aug 30, 95 05:01:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 714 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Ever worried about getting a larger file halfway and the transfer > got aborted? Maybe you Americans with your information highway > get better ftp transfer rates but here we have miserable ftp > rates during the business hours since everyone is clicking > around in web browsers. > > I wonder if anyone tried to amend ftp/ftpd in a way that it > gets the 'rest of the file' if a file of the same name exists > and the checksum up to the local bytecount matches the remote > file. In that case the transfer could resume and append to > the existing local file. > > Any comments? > The reget command in ftp will get the rest of a file. It won't do a checksum though. -- John Hay -- jhay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 08:12:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA06835 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:12:11 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA06828 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:12:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA04229; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:10:50 -0700 To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: enhancing ftp/ftpd In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:01:19 +0200." <199508301501.RAA17290@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:10:49 -0700 Message-ID: <4227.809795449@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I wonder if anyone tried to amend ftp/ftpd in a way that it > gets the 'rest of the file' if a file of the same name exists > and the checksum up to the local bytecount matches the remote It's called the "reget" command and already exists. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 08:19:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA07580 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:19:32 -0700 Received: from lassie.eunet.fi (lassie.eunet.fi [192.26.119.7]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA07559 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:18:42 -0700 Received: from key.hole.fi by lassie.eunet.fi with SMTP id AA00857 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:18:32 +0300 Received: (from count@localhost) by key.hole.fi (8.6.11/8.6.12) id RAA11290 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:36:30 +0300 From: "Bror 'Count' Heinola" Message-Id: <199508301436.RAA11290@key.hole.fi> Subject: Trouble with FreeBSD-2.0.5R To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:36:30 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2371 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm having weird problems with my current 2.0.5R setup; System will work nicely for a while and then it'll become unresponsive, open network connections will stay open and work for a while but new logins are impossible etc. I've got "/kernel proc: table is full" messages to syslog a few times after this situation has persisted for a while, and today when I came to reboot the machine, there was a message "swap_pager: out of space" on the console. The machine is 486DX2/66 with 32M RAM and 2 1.2G Conner IDE disks. I've configured 64M swap on both of the drives, totaling 128M. /users filesystem is NFS exported to another machine, and it has quotas. I've included my current kernel config file below. Any suggestions what I should do? # # SNAFU - snafu.muncca.fi i486DX2/66 32M 2x 1.2G IDE # machine "i386" cpu "I486_CPU" ident SNAFU maxusers 64 options INET options FFS options NFS options PROCFS options "COMPAT_43" options UCONSOLE options XSERVER options QUOTA options "NMBCLUSTERS=2048" options HARDFONTS options DUMMY_NOPS options "AUTO_EOI1" #options "AUTO_EOI2" options "CHILD_MAX=128" options "OPEN_MAX=128" options "NSWAPDEV=10" options "BROKEN_KEYBOARD_RESET" options "MAXCONS=12" config kernel root on wd0 controller isa0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 5 drq 1 vector wtintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device pty 192 -- Bror 'Count' Heinola # E-mail: # Network admin of muncca.fi Pengerkatu 13b A5 # count@snafu.muncca.fi # Count in IRC 00530 HELSINKI # count@key.hole.fi # "Be excellent to each Cell: +358-40-5533-554 # ...free your mind... # other!" - Bill & Ted From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 09:51:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA11885 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:51:31 -0700 Received: from amigalib.com (fishpond.amigalib.com [165.247.33.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA11869 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:51:23 -0700 Received: by amigalib.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #64) id m0snqR3-0004nYC; Wed, 30 Aug 95 09:56 MST Message-Id: From: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) Subject: 9Gb HD questions - FreeBSD 2.0.5 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:56:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 806 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I recently tried to add a Seagate 9Gb ST410800N to a previously installed FreeBSD 2.0.5 system, with no luck. I ended up doing a reinstall of the entire system and telling sysinstall to partition and label both the 2Gb system disk and the 9Gb Seagate during the install process, which did work. What is the correct method for adding another drive after the fact (I had no luck running fdisk/disklabel/newfs by themselves)? On a related note, I partitioned the new drive with two 4000Mb (slightly less than 4Gb) partitions and a smaller leftover. That seems to work, though I haven't yet filled them to capacity to make sure that there are no problems with large partitions. Should this be OK or should I not go over 2Gb, as on Unixware, where this drive came from. Thanks for any tips! -Fred From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 10:22:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA14764 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:22:47 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA14751 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:22:42 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA05374; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:21:23 -0700 To: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 9Gb HD questions - FreeBSD 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:56:20 PDT." Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:21:22 -0700 Message-ID: <5372.809803282@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I recently tried to add a Seagate 9Gb ST410800N to a previously installed > FreeBSD 2.0.5 system, with no luck. I ended up doing a reinstall of the What did you try? This should have been a simply `disklabel -r -e sd' and `newfs /dev/rsda' operation.. You say you had no luck with these? Can you perhaps be more specific, Fred? > On a related note, I partitioned the new drive with two 4000Mb > (slightly less than 4Gb) partitions and a smaller leftover. That > seems to work, though I haven't yet filled them to capacity to make > sure that there are no problems with large partitions. Should this > be OK or should I not go over 2Gb, as on Unixware, where this drive > came from. This should work just fine. In fact, I have one of these exact same drives partitioned as *one* partition and it works just great on news.cdrom.com: /dev/sd1s1 7801705 6576314 601254 92% /a/news Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 10:31:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA15286 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:31:20 -0700 Received: from thing.sunquest.com (thing.Sunquest.COM [149.138.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA15269 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:31:06 -0700 Received: by thing.sunquest.com; id AA13282; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:27:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:27:22 -0700 From: Tony Jones Message-Id: <9508301727.AA13282@thing.sunquest.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: GNUmalloc for XFree86 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've seen several discussions on this list regarding the large memory requirements of XFree86 when using the system malloc, and that GNUmalloc might be a solution. I'm assuming people have tried using GNUmalloc - does anyone have any stats on how much of a benefit it provides ? If it's tangible, I might go fetch the X sources and rebuld (any pitfalls to watch for here?) tnx in advance tony From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 10:32:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA15388 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:32:15 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15378 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:32:10 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA18678; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:29:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508301729.KAA18678@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Developement To: annex2@viking.emcmt.edu (Computer Annex) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:29:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Computer Annex" at Aug 29, 95 08:41:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1607 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There are a group of students at Montana State University Billings that > are interested in joining the team for developement of the FreeBSD > system. Although we are not Unix gurus I feel that our group could > contribute to the developement of FreeBSD. Any info and guidance would > be greatly appreciated. Some people have suggested a lot of heavy reading. Some people have suggested the projects lists in /usr/src. Some people have suggested installing, then fixing the parts of the install you don't like. Personally, I'd suggest: 1) Subscribe to questions 2) Subscribe to hackers 3) Install the software 4) When you see something interesting roll by, be it a bug or an enhancement or whatever, just do it. I'm personally involved in BSD developement as recreation. It's there for me to keep programming fun. In the professional world, you often have to do things you find uninteresting, unchallenging, or just plain boring. Sometimes you are forced into releasing suboptimal code because of scheduling. But you do them anyway, because you've committed to doing them. There are several ways to deal with this: become a consultant so your projects are always short term and you can pick the ones you want. Or jump from project to project (this is what a lot of USL does). Or have your own projects that you do because you want to, not because you have a schedule to meet, or anyone to please but yourself. I vote for that last option. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 10:38:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA15839 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:38:16 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15833 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:38:14 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA18701; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:33:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508301733.KAA18701@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: fdisk & disklabel troubles To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:33:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2004.809766873@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 30, 95 00:14:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 337 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The interface sucks, the presentation sucks, the argument handling > sucks and I'd say that the error checking sucks except for the fact > that there isn't any. :-) He said "sucks". Huh huh huh. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 10:41:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA16137 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:41:03 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA16125 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:41:01 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA27537 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:46:43 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199508301746.NAA27537@ns1.win.net> Subject: re: re: pwd_mkdb is intense To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:46:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2317 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am resending this because I did not see it come through. Looks like the server there took another disk space hit, because the sup's appear to be a little messy today also. Apologies if you've seen this. Right now we have about 11552 lines in our password file. Changing a password or adding an account causes pwd_mkdb to run for about 2-3 minutes on a p90/pci consuming 20-30% of the cpu. In addition my swap space (which is rather large) goes up around 15% (say around 25 megabytes worth). Reviewing pwd_mkdb shows that the password records appear to be stored in 8 seperate places. 1. /etc/passwd 2. /etc/master.passwd 3. /etc/pwd.db pw record keyed by username 4. /etc/pwd.db pw record keyed by 'count' 5. /etc/pwd.db pw record keyed by uid 6. /etc/spwd.db pw record keyed by username 7. /etc/spwd.db pw record keyed by 'count' 8. /etc/spwd.db pw record keyed by uid We are devoting around 8.5 megabytes to this structure. I realize a lot of what pwd_mkdb does is for locking and maintaning compatiblity. My beef is with the way we are using db for this. On a more vanilla level my experience with mixing keys and data in the same file has nearly always been bad. This is both from a production performance and a development/debugging perspective. It looks like we are doing weird things with the keys to prevent a duplicate key scenario. Therefore, since I am permitted to wish out loud, I would prefer to see two flat binary pw record files, one for public and one for shadow. I would like to see three entirely seperate files for the keys, each keyed file record simply has the key and a pointer to the flat binary file's record. We add between 20 and 30 accounts per day right now. It would be slick if I could simply append the records to the flat files and add the three keys to the key files. When I need to update a pw record, I could just update the flat pw record in place. I would not need to recreate the entire key structure each time. Wish Wish - Now tell me why we can't do it because we have to maintain compatibility with some other bogus implementation :-) I am playing around with buffers and caches now trying to pump it up, but I suspect we are just doing something that is not scalable to these levels and beyond. Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 10:42:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA16312 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:42:28 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA16300 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:42:23 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA18719; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:39:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508301739.KAA18719@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: *READ THIS* snapshot fixes security hole *READ THIS* (fwd) To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:39:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508301035.MAA16690@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph Kukulies" at Aug 30, 95 12:35:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1101 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Here are the files in /bin and /sbin which call syslog() > > > > BIN > > ./date/date.c > > > > SBIN > > ./shutdown/shutdown.c > > ./savecore/savecore.c > > ./routed/tables.c > > ./routed/startup.c > > ./routed/main.c > > ./routed/input.c > > ./reboot/reboot.c > > ./nfsiod/nfsiod.c > > ./nfsd/nfsd.c > > ./newfs/newfs.c > > ./mountd/mountd.c > > ./init/init.c > > ./dmesg/dmesg.c > > ./mount_portal/pt_file.c > > ./mount_portal/mount_portal.c > > ./mount_portal/activate.c > > ./mount_portal/conf.c > > ./mount_portal/pt_exec.c > > ./mount_portal/pt_tcp.c > > ./mount_nfs/mount_nfs.c This is silly (and the list is incomplete -- you see the CERT advisory target program listed there at all? 8-)). The only "danger" from the syslog() is when it's used to log user input and that userinput consists of a clever stack hack to make the program blow. Unless it's a daemon or an SUID/SGID program, there is *no* hole. Programs run by inetd count as "SUID". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 10:50:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA17151 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:50:13 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA17135 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:50:05 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA16267; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:45:57 +1000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:45:57 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508301745.DAA16267@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: fnf@amigalib.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 9Gb HD questions - FreeBSD 2.0.5 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >did work. What is the correct method for adding another drive after the >fact (I had no luck running fdisk/disklabel/newfs by themselves)? Learn how to use fdisk/disklabel/newfs. The simplest case is a new disk sd1 (with all zeros in the first 2 sectors) that you want to use entirely for FreeBSD: disklabel -B -r -w sd1 xxx newfs /dev/rsd1a newfs ... # any other partitions on disk where xxx is a suitable entry that you wrote and put in /etc/disktab. >On a related note, I partitioned the new drive with two 4000Mb >(slightly less than 4Gb) partitions and a smaller leftover. That >seems to work, though I haven't yet filled them to capacity to make >sure that there are no problems with large partitions. Should this >be OK or should I not go over 2Gb, as on Unixware, where this drive >came from. Partitions of up to 1 TeraByte are supposed to work. There are no known problems with this. Files of 2GB or larger don't work. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 11:04:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA17898 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:04:29 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA17892 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:04:24 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id NAA17970; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:58:10 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:58:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Reply-To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: re: re: pwd_mkdb is intense To: Mark Hittinger cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508301746.NAA27537@ns1.win.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk this is the second time i have seen this piece of mail. so while it can thru, it must not have made it back to you ;( afterall, remember i asked how large the /etc/passwd was?? and you said ~11,000 lines not all mail hiccups are on freefall. (guess i am getting a little testy regarding mail operations on the mailing lists. ;( ) On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Mark Hittinger wrote: > > I am resending this because I did not see it come through. Looks like > the server there took another disk space hit, because the sup's appear > to be a little messy today also. Apologies if you've seen this. Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 11:08:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA18230 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:08:11 -0700 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18190 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:07:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA05450; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:07:28 -0600 Message-Id: <199508301807.MAA05450@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Steve Passe To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: Tony Jones Subject: Re: GNUmalloc for XFree86 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:27:22 PDT." <9508301727.AA13282@thing.sunquest.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:07:26 -0600 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > If it's tangible, I might go fetch the X sources and rebuld (any pitfalls > to watch for here?) XFree86-3.1.2 use gnumalloc by default. -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 11:09:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA18376 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:09:26 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18361 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:09:18 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id OAA18004; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:02:48 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:02:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: *READ THIS* snapshot fixes security hole *READ THIS* (fwd) To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508301035.MAA16690@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > I don't know if this concerns FreeBSD too but just FYI I'm > forwarding this from the NetBSD list: > > > Here are the files in /bin and /sbin which call syslog() based upon a recursive "grep -l 'syslog('" here is the list for -stable as of last night. /usr/src/bin/date/date.c /usr/src/gnu/libexec/ypxfr/log.c /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/lib/syslog.pl /usr/src/gnu/usr.sbin/yppasswdd/pw_copy.c /usr/src/gnu/usr.sbin/yppasswdd/pw_util.c /usr/src/gnu/usr.sbin/yppasswdd/update.c /usr/src/gnu/usr.sbin/ypserv/server.c /usr/src/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c /usr/src/lib/libc/gen/syslog.3 /usr/src/lib/libc/gen/syslog.c /usr/src/lib/libc/net/gethostbydns.c /usr/src/lib/libcom_err/doc/com_err.texinfo /usr/src/lib/libskey/skeyaccess.c /usr/src/libexec/atrun/atrun.c /usr/src/libexec/bootpd/Announce /usr/src/libexec/bootpd/Changes /usr/src/libexec/bootpd/README /usr/src/libexec/bootpd/report.c /usr/src/libexec/comsat/comsat.c /usr/src/libexec/fingerd/fingerd.c /usr/src/libexec/ftpd/ftpcmd.y /usr/src/libexec/ftpd/ftpd.c /usr/src/libexec/getty/main.c /usr/src/libexec/mail.local/mail.local.c /usr/src/libexec/rbootd/bpf.c /usr/src/libexec/rbootd/parseconf.c /usr/src/libexec/rbootd/rbootd.c /usr/src/libexec/rbootd/rmpproto.c /usr/src/libexec/rbootd/utils.c /usr/src/libexec/rexecd/rexecd.c /usr/src/libexec/rlogind/rlogind.c /usr/src/libexec/rpc.rstatd/rstat_proc.c /usr/src/libexec/rpc.rstatd/rstatd.c /usr/src/libexec/rpc.rusersd/rusers_proc.c /usr/src/libexec/rpc.rusersd/rusersd.c /usr/src/libexec/rshd/rshd.c /usr/src/libexec/talkd/print.c /usr/src/libexec/talkd/process.c /usr/src/libexec/talkd/table.c /usr/src/libexec/talkd/talkd.c /usr/src/libexec/telnetd/state.c /usr/src/libexec/telnetd/sys_term.c /usr/src/libexec/telnetd/telnetd.c /usr/src/libexec/telnetd/utility.c /usr/src/libexec/tftpd/tftpd.c /usr/src/libexec/uucpd/uucpd.c /usr/src/sbin/adjkerntz/adjkerntz.c /usr/src/sbin/init/init.c /usr/src/sbin/mount_nfs/mount_nfs.c /usr/src/sbin/mount_portal/activate.c /usr/src/sbin/mount_portal/conf.c /usr/src/sbin/mount_portal/mount_portal.c /usr/src/sbin/mount_portal/pt_file.c /usr/src/sbin/mount_portal/pt_tcp.c /usr/src/sbin/mountd/mountd.c /usr/src/sbin/newfs/newfs.c /usr/src/sbin/nfsd/nfsd.c /usr/src/sbin/nfsiod/nfsiod.c /usr/src/sbin/rdisc/rdisc.c /usr/src/sbin/reboot/reboot.c /usr/src/sbin/savecore/savecore.c /usr/src/sbin/shutdown/shutdown.c /usr/src/sbin/slattach/slattach.c /usr/src/sbin/startslip/startslip.c /usr/src/secure/libexec/telnetd/state.c /usr/src/secure/libexec/telnetd/sys_term.c /usr/src/secure/libexec/telnetd/telnetd.c /usr/src/secure/libexec/telnetd/utility.c /usr/src/share/doc/psd/21.ipc/4.t /usr/src/share/doc/psd/21.ipc/5.t /usr/src/share/man/man0/title.urm /usr/src/sys/i386/linux/linux_dummy.c /usr/src/sys/i386/linux/linux_sysent.c /usr/src/sys/sys/syslog.h /usr/src/usr.bin/chat/chat.c /usr/src/usr.bin/logger/logger.c /usr/src/usr.bin/login/klogin.c /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login.c /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login_access.c /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login_fbtab.c /usr/src/usr.bin/ncftp/ftp.c /usr/src/usr.bin/ncftp/patchlevel.h /usr/src/usr.bin/su/su.c /usr/src/usr.bin/vacation/vacation.c /usr/src/usr.bin/yacc/test/ftp.tab.c /usr/src/usr.bin/yacc/test/ftp.y /usr/src/usr.sbin/XNSrouted/main.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/XNSrouted/startup.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/XNSrouted/tables.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/XNSrouted/trace.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/amd/ChangeLog /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/amd/xutil.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/config/os-defaults.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/config/os-hpux.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/config/os-irix.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/config/os-irix3.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/config/os-irix4.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/config/os-u2_2.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/config/os-u3_0.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/config/os-u4_0.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/config/os-u4_2.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/bootparamd/bootparamd/bootparamd.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/cron/cron/config.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/cron/lib/misc.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/inetd/inetd.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/lpr/lpd/lpd.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/lpr/lpd/printjob.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/lpr/lpd/recvjob.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/mrouted/main.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/db_dump.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/db_glue.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/db_load.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/db_reload.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/db_save.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/db_secure.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/db_update.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/named.8 /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/ns_forw.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/ns_init.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/ns_main.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/ns_maint.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/ns_req.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/ns_resp.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/ns_stats.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/ns_validate.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/portability.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/storage.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/xfer/named-xfer.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/portmap/from_local.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/portmap/pmap_check.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/portmap/portmap.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/pppd/auth.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/pppd/chap.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/pppd/fsm.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/pppd/ipcp.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/pppd/lcp.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/pppd/lock.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/pppd/main.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/pppd/options.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/pppd/pppd.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/pppd/sys-bsd.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/pppd/upap.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/rarpd/arptab.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/rarpd/rarpd.8 /usr/src/usr.sbin/rarpd/rarpd.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/routed/input.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/routed/main.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/routed/startup.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/routed/tables.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/rwhod/rwhod.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/RELEASE_NOTES /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/contrib/rcpt-streaming /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/READ_ME /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/alias.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/collect.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/conf.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/conf.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/daemon.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/deliver.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/envelope.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/err.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/headers.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/main.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/mci.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/queue.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/readcf.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/recipient.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/savemail.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/srvrsmtp.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/udb.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/usersmtp.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/util.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/sliplogin/sliplogin.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/syslogd/syslogd.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/timed/timed/candidate.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/timed/timed/correct.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/timed/timed/globals.h /usr/src/usr.sbin/timed/timed/master.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/timed/timed/measure.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/timed/timed/readmsg.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/timed/timed/slave.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/timed/timed/timed.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/doc/acts.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/lib/authreadkeys.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/lib/emalloc.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/lib/msyslog.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/lib/systime.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/ntpdate/ntpdate.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/ntptrace/ntptrace.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/parse/clk_rawdcf.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/parse/clk_trimtsip.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/parse/parse.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/parse/util/dcfd.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/util/README /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_config.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_control.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_filegen.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_intres.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_io.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_leap.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_loopfilter.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_peer.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_proto.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_refclock.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_unixclock.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntp_util.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/ntpd.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/refclock_acts.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/refclock_chu.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/refclock_datum.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/refclock_gpstm.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/refclock_irig.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/refclock_leitch.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/refclock_msfees.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/refclock_mx4200.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/refclock_omega.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/refclock_parse.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/xntpd/xntpd/refclock_tpro.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/ypbind/ypbind.8 /usr/src/usr.sbin/ypbind/ypbind.c Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 11:24:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA19080 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:24:55 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA19074 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:24:52 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA06711 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:24:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199508301824.LAA06711@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GNUmalloc for XFree86 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:07:26 MDT." <199508301807.MAA05450@clem.systemsix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:24:30 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Howdy, Has anyone out there experienced crashes with the XFree86-3.1.2 installation which didn't happen before? Tnks, Amancio >>> Steve Passe said: > Hi, > > > If it's tangible, I might go fetch the X sources and rebuld (any pitfalls > > to watch for here?) > > XFree86-3.1.2 use gnumalloc by default. > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 11:33:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA19949 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:33:58 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.84.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA19941 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:33:55 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id NAA05332 for freebsd.org!hackers; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:24:02 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA06978; 30 Aug 95 11:11:02 CDT (Wed) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA11762; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:37:06 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9508301637.AA11762@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:37:05 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com In-Reply-To: <199508300107.LAA10577@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 30, 95 11:07:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1659 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Why, oh why, is the CU device for "ttyd0" called "cuaa0" instead of "cuad0"? > >Or making it ttya0? > It was to give a unique name when the name is truncated to 2 characters > for printing by ps, etc. That I understand. What I don't understand is why you changed: tty00 to ttyd0 but: cua00 to cuaa0 ??? What's wrong with "ttya0" or "cuad0"? > When did they make sense? They were never called sio* or ttys*. Under 386BSD they were. > `s' > would have been a bad name anyway since sio is actually the ns(x)xx50 > driver. This point becomes more important when there are half a dozen > other Serial IO drivers with different broken naming schemes. Yes, that's another can of worms I'd like to open at another time. Along with the broken programs that assume the ttyXX pattern. > >For 2.1, can we go back to at least making the tty and cua devices have the > >same identifiers? > When did they have the same identifiers? If you say that tty00 and cua00 > have the same identifiers, then I'll say that `0' is not an identifier :-). Oh, don't be silly. You know what I mean. "00" and "00" for COM1 make sense. "d0" and "d0" make less sense, but still work. "d0" and "a0" are just plain weird. > That would be bogus. X works with the vanilla POSIX port ttyd0 and > always has. Fine. Then the XFree86 setup needs to use that instead of /dev/mouse. You're looking at it from the point of view of someone who knows what all this stuff does. I'm dealing with someone who doesn't and wants to learn, and only comes to me when something's broke. That's good. That's the sort of people we want to encourage. All this inconsistency makes it harder. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 11:55:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA24412 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:55:55 -0700 Received: from chrome.onramp.net (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA24394 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 11:55:43 -0700 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.onramp.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA09405 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:55:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199508301855.NAA09405@chrome.onramp.net> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.onramp.net: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: /etc/disktab and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:45:57 +1000." <199508301745.DAA16267@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Reply-To: jdl@chromatic.com Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:55:44 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Apparently, Bruce Evans scribbled: > Learn how to use fdisk/disklabel/newfs. > > The simplest case is a new disk sd1 (with all zeros in the first 2 > sectors) that you want to use entirely for FreeBSD: > > disklabel -B -r -w sd1 xxx > newfs /dev/rsd1a > newfs ... # any other partitions on disk > > where xxx is a suitable entry that you wrote and put in /etc/disktab. Does it make sense to attempt to collect people's /etc/disktab entries and make them more available in the (next) released /etc/disktab? In particular, it seems to me that many of the questions that float down this list are fdisk/disklable related and maybe providing more example configurations there might mitigate some of those problems. Granted, I'm personally not too familiar with this whole area and am willing to concede that the disktab entries might be so specialized that a collection/distribution of them might be infeasible, really impractical or not that useful. On the otherhand, a pool of examples might be a better starting point for some. For example, I've got only Western Digital WD31000's, and there's no disktab entry for them and I haven't got a clue what it *should* be. I didn't get any technical spec when I bought the drives, and would have to "work harder" to get the gory details myself. In true lazy haker style, I'd rather there was a wd31000 entry I could scam off of and start from it. I eventually punted creating my own distab entry, and used the normal install sequence to "install" onto my second drive. I aborted the installation well into the process, but after the labels had been written and newfs'ed. Wadda hack! To generalize and maybe speak (incorrectly?) for others, I think this area of sysadmin scares people. I know I was scared by it because I use it so infrequently, know so little about it, and it's so potentially "catastrophic" when things go wrong. Handholding during this stage can be very useful and very important. Not to belittle *anyone's* effort, but just by sheer volume of mail alone, it's clear that some improvements are needed in the area of disk creation, documentation or overall usability of disk utilities. Am I all wet? Can someone put their finger on the precise problem here, identify a good long term plan, and get us on the road to improvement? jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 12:17:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA25774 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:17:22 -0700 Received: from system1.indecent.com (system1.indecent.com [204.95.227.58]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA25755 ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:17:15 -0700 Received: (from partek@localhost) by system1.indecent.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA05111; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:08:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:08:53 -0500 (EST) From: David Anderson To: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD and the Promise 2300+ EIDE controller Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (Please send replies to partek@iquest.net) After using Linux for 4 months, and learning more about FreeBSD, I decided to give it a try. (The main thing that convinced me was the kernel configure that's almost identical to SunOS 4.1.3) I tried 5 times yesterday to install FreeBSD 2.1.0-950726-SNAP. Each time the install over FTP went fine,(even though it took forever over my 28.8k modem) but when it came to booting the system from the HD, it would lock up looking something like this: ------------- >> FreeBSD [Stuff I don't remember deleted] Boot: | -------------- Then the computer was completely frozen. I was told on #FreeBSD that the problem sounded like it originated with my hard drive controller. I've tried every setting, and every configuration on the controller and it still did the same exact thing when trying to boot from the HD.. Is this controller just incompatable with FreeBSD, or am I doing something horribly wrong? I tried setting it up with the boot manager AND the standard MBR also.. Also, when installing I ran into another problem. When sysinstall went to write the fdisk info to wd0, it would crash saying something like this: ------ sysinstall: read input/output error panic: running away without my init! ------ It then would force a reboot. I don't know what caused it, but if I erased the partition table and started over, it seemed to work. Could this be related to the HDC too? I refuse to go out and spend $80+ on a new EIDE controller, so I'm willing to help out in any way I can on getting this to work. (Please send any replies to partek@iquest.net) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 12:19:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA25935 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:19:53 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA25921 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:19:25 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA18876; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:17:15 +1000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:17:15 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508301917.FAA18876@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, jdl@chrome.onramp.net Subject: Re: More ATAPI -- possible insight into probe problems...? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Oh my! Let's peek at my highly superior wd.c: >... > #ifdef WDDEBUG_PROBE > printf("wd%d: checking RW register on port 0x%x + 0x%x\n", > unit, du->dk_port, wd_cyl_lo); > #endif > /* check if we have registers that work */ > outb(du->dk_port + wd_cyl_lo, 0xa5); /* wd_cyl_lo is read/write */ > if (inb(du->dk_port + wd_cyl_lo) == 0xff) /* XXX too weak */ > goto nodevice; > >So who can tell me any details about that lovely weak check for R/W >registers that appears to be failing for me? Simple things like: > - Is this a valid register for a CDROM drive too? Ie, is this check > tacitly assuming a hard disk beneath it? > - Is it subject to timing problems? > - It *claims* to be "too weak", however it appears to be too strong! It's too weak for ST506...EIDE controllers with normal drives attached. These all have read/write registers, so the inb() should return what was written. That used to be tested for, but someone weakened the test without documenting why. I don't know what happens for CDROM drives. The point of the test is to attempt to limit the damage if there is a device other than an ST506...EIDE controller behind the port. It is far too weak for that (if 0xff wasn't so magic, then the test would have much less than a 1/256 chance of detecting conflicts). Even if it tested for `== 0xa5', then any device with a read/write port at the probed address would pass the test. The test is very sloppy. It should do something like: int is_rw_port(port) u_int_port; { u_char in1, in2, was; DELAY(5); was = inb(port); DELAY(5); outb(port, 0xa5); DELAY(5); (void)inb(0x20); /* attempt to eliminate bus echoes */ DELAY(5); in1 = inb(port); DELAY(5); outb(port, 0x5a); DELAY(5); (void)inb(0x20); DELAY(5); in2 = inb(port); DELAY(5); outb(port, was); DELAY(5); return (in1 == 0xa5 && in2 == 0x5a); } ... if (!is_rw_port(du->dk_port + wd_cyl_lo)) goto nodevice; Then the test would be stronger and your CDROM would be sure to fail :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 12:36:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA26447 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:36:39 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA26431 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:36:20 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0snsrh-000I4kC; Wed, 30 Aug 95 21:32 MET DST Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0snsYG-00000wC; Wed, 30 Aug 95 21:11 MET DST Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: GNUmalloc for XFree86 To: tony@thing.sunquest.com (Tony Jones) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:11:56 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9508301727.AA13282@thing.sunquest.com> from "Tony Jones" at Aug 30, 95 10:27:22 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1113 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Tony Jones: > I've seen several discussions on this list regarding the large memory > requirements of XFree86 when using the system malloc, and that GNUmalloc > might be a solution. > > I'm assuming people have tried using GNUmalloc - does anyone have any stats > on how much of a benefit it provides ? I have recompiled XFree86 3.1.1 using gnumalloc and i'm very satisfied with it. I have had a machine with 16M of ram and after starting my usual X environment (fvwm with lots of goodstuff modules) it eat up half of my 48M swapspace, since i recompiled with gnumalloc, this went down to 2..4% and it "felt" much more "flexible". Anyway, i just bought an additional 8M recently ... > If it's tangible, I might go fetch the X sources and rebuld (any pitfalls > to watch for here?) No pitfalls, at least not for me, just configure to use -lgnumalloc, recompile and reinstall (i also configured gcc to use -pipe). hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 12:54:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA27097 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:54:37 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA27086 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:54:28 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA19689; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:51:22 +1000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:51:22 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508301951.FAA19689@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, jdl@chrome.onramp.net Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> disklabel -B -r -w sd1 xxx >> newfs /dev/rsd1a >> newfs ... # any other partitions on disk >> >> where xxx is a suitable entry that you wrote and put in /etc/disktab. >Does it make sense to attempt to collect people's /etc/disktab entries >and make them more available in the (next) released /etc/disktab? No. You would need a hundred entries for each of a few hundred disks to get a reasonable coverage. Something like the following should work, but I'm less sure about it: disklabel /dev/rsd1 >/etc/label.sd1 # get sub-minimal label vi /etc/label.sd1 # fix deficiencies in label; # partition as required disklabel -R -r sd1 /etc/label.sd1 >In particular, it seems to me that many of the questions that float >down this list are fdisk/disklable related and maybe providing more >example configurations there might mitigate some of those problems. There are already examples in /etc/disktab. You can judge from the small size of the drives in this file how generally (not) useful it is to add special entries to it. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 13:14:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA28179 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:14:24 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28169 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:14:20 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA06128; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:12:01 -0700 To: jdl@chromatic.com cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:55:44 CDT." <199508301855.NAA09405@chrome.onramp.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:12:01 -0700 Message-ID: <6125.809813521@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > To generalize and maybe speak (incorrectly?) for others, I think this > area of sysadmin scares people. I know I was scared by it because I use > it so infrequently, know so little about it, and it's so potentially > "catastrophic" when things go wrong. Handholding during this stage can > be very useful and very important. I agree. The 2.0.5 install was, to go further, rather fundamentally flawed in that it was an "all or nothing" kinda bet. You jumped in and went all the way or you didn't bother jumping in. 2.1 will be substantially different in that regard. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 13:14:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA28197 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:14:30 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28180 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:14:24 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA20135; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:12:36 +1000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:12:36 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508302012.GAA20135@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >Why, oh why, is the CU device for "ttyd0" called "cuaa0" instead of "cuad0"? >> >Or making it ttya0? >> It was to give a unique name when the name is truncated to 2 characters >> for printing by ps, etc. >That I understand. What I don't understand is why you changed: > tty00 to ttyd0 >but: > cua00 to cuaa0 >??? >What's wrong with "ttya0" or "cuad0"? "ttyd0" is not distinguishable from "cuad0" when truncated to 2 characters for printing by ps, etc. :-) >> When did they make sense? They were never called sio* or ttys*. >Under 386BSD they were. 386BSD had the `com' driver and devices named com[1-4] in some places and com[0-3] in other places. >> >For 2.1, can we go back to at least making the tty and cua devices have the >> >same identifiers? >> When did they have the same identifiers? If you say that tty00 and cua00 >> have the same identifiers, then I'll say that `0' is not an identifier :-). >Oh, don't be silly. You know what I mean. "00" and "00" for COM1 make sense. >"d0" and "d0" make less sense, but still work. "d0" and "a0" are just plain >weird. No weirder than "tty" and "cua". "00" for a tty is weird compared with "p0" for a pty. >> That would be bogus. X works with the vanilla POSIX port ttyd0 and >> always has. >Fine. Then the XFree86 setup needs to use that instead of /dev/mouse. So why doesn't it? Perhaps because of confusion in previous versions when there were ttyd0 (default) which was blown away by MAKEDEV'ing cua0 (resulting in tty00 and cua00, where tty00 was identical with ttyd0 (except in even older versions) but documented as different. At first I wanted to nuke ttyd0, but I changed my mind after noticing that /etc/ttys and a couple of other config files used ttyd0 but not tty00. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 13:19:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA28448 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:19:30 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28442 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:19:22 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA20319; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:17:43 +1000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:17:43 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508302017.GAA20319@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, terry@Artisoft.com Subject: Re: *READ THIS* snapshot fixes security hole *READ THIS* (fwd) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > Here are the files in /bin and /sbin which call syslog() >> > >> > BIN >> > ./date/date.c >> > >> > SBIN >> > ./shutdown/shutdown.c >> > ./savecore/savecore.c >> > ... >This is silly (and the list is incomplete -- you see the CERT advisory >target program listed there at all? 8-)). I think they're worrying about the statically linked binaries that wouldn't be fixed by installing new shared libraries. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 13:21:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA28626 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:21:33 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28611 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:21:22 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA14366 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:21:15 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA05231 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:21:15 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA04483 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:59:28 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508301959.VAA04483@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: pilot error on my part or feedback on the 2.1 snap To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:59:28 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508301113.EAA07934@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 30, 95 04:13:22 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 635 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > Someone should go kill: > Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1 > > and remove the 1 bias in fdisk. Oooooh, this will confuse everybody who's already been slightly dealing with disk setups. It's an arguably ugly, but long-standing tradition to number the (physical) sectors on each track starting at one. ``Correcting'' this now and only in one of 20 million operating systems will violate the principle of least surprise. (Just my DM 0.02) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 13:22:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA28683 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:22:04 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28671 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:21:57 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA14362; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:21:14 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA05230; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:21:13 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA04454; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:54:10 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508301954.VAA04454@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Developement To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:54:10 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: annex2@viking.emcmt.edu In-Reply-To: <2368.809770817@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 30, 95 01:20:17 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 738 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I suggest that you guys spend a little time looking through the system > and pick something that interests you. Maybe an emulation topic: DOS? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Windows? Linux? SCO? The emulation for all of those (especially the > first two) needs some serious work and there's even existing sample > code scattered throughout the Linux and NetBSD camps that one could > use. Perhaps start with the base requirement for this: vm86(). Wasn't it Justin who've already thought about a starting point? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 13:37:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA29397 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:37:06 -0700 Received: from argus.iadfw.net (argus.iadfw.net [204.178.72.68]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29375 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:36:44 -0700 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.iadfw.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA03912 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:36:31 -0500 From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199508302036.PAA03912@argus.iadfw.net> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 (fwd) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:36:30 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3448 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply: >From jbryant Wed Aug 30 15:36:00 1995 Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:36:00 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199508291458.HAA03827@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 29, 95 07:58:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2770 In reply: My point is that if he was locking up due to a memory error, at least parity might trap and show WHERE the error might be... > > > Are you using non-parity memory? As you know, memory errors will not trap > > > unless you are using parity memory. If you want to use FreeBSD for anything > > > other than home-use, I strongly suggest parity memory. (Get a warrantee!) > > > > Actually, no triton based board traps parity errors. If you need what itsy- > > bitsy comfort parity checks give you then you are going to have to sacrifice > > performance and use a neptune based board. Not any more, apparently my ASUS manual shows that parity memory is acceptable, although it does not say if it will or will not trap. > And to state my reason for agreement that parity is a ``itsy-bitsy comfort'', > think about the fact that 80% of your memory access are going to a L2 > cache that has never had parity on it, yet has a same FIT rate as the > main memory system. Basically your more likely today to take a single > bit error in your cache as you are in main memory :-(. > > > Personally I think parity memory is a poor investment; assuming I'm clear > > on the techical details, once the P6 becomes a commodity item (real soon > > now) the next motherboard you buy will want ECC memory, anyway. Its neat > > the way this industry creates its own demand, eh? > > :-). Yes, but unfortanelty, ECC memory, though being supported by next > generation chip sets, will be, IMHO, a rare thing in the PC market simply > due to clone MB manufactures who will see it as an additional cost to > them. True, but at least parity will tell if it's bad most of the time. As far as ECC, I really do not forsee many commodity CPU's shipping with ECC. If DEC is any indicator of the cost of ECC memory, it's use will remain relegated to high end systems... Getting a Gig or Two of ECC next week with our AlphaServers [Either 512M/512M or 1024M/1024M, I forget, [2 Computers, 4 CPUs]... > > The upside to this is that financial institutions and similiar nervous > > nellies will migrate their mission-critical servers to cost-effective > > intel platforms whereupon demand for FreeBSD will go through the roof. > > Now is the time to buy WC stock. > > > > :-) I thought FreeBSD was a seperate entity and not part of WC? We still have a bit of work until I would call it Mission Critical capable... Getting close though, but then again I'm picky :) Jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, Sr. System/Network Admin, Internet America -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, Sr. System/Network Admin, Internet America From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 13:46:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA29809 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:46:35 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user47.lightside.com [198.81.209.47]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29799 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:46:30 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA00312; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:46:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:46:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Suggestions for 2.1.0 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Here are the most useful suggestions/comments I could think of for FreeBSD 2.1.0. Use them (or ignore them) as you see fit: 1) One of the great things about FreeBSD is that it combines aspects of System V or GNU when they are clearly better than what comes with BSD. For example, FreeBSD uses vixie-cron (System V style) rather than BSD cron. I've found that Cornell's tcsh is a FAR better interactive shell than /bin/csh and only about 30k larger. Because of its many powerful features (filename completion, Emacs-style editing, cursor-key history) it deserves to be the default shell for FreeBSD. On the other hand, although bash is about as good as tcsh, it's 100k larger than /bin/sh and is mostly used for shell scripts anyway, so I would recommend tcsh over bash (even though Linux uses bash by default). 2) For similar reasons, I believe ncurses is a far superior replacement to BSD curses. The version of ncurses included with FreeBSD is missing a lot of commands compared to the latest version (1.9.4) which can be D/Led from ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/zm/zmbenhal/ncurses. This version also includes an excellent free terminfo database which is used by default instead of /etc/termcap. Also, Keith Bostic, the maintainer of nvi, has declared BSD curses officially dead, and is recommending NCurses 1.9.x now. I also have a few questions about FreeBSD in general: 3) When I built my kernel I compiled in SYSVSHM, SYSVSEM, and SYSVMSG, because I figured public domain software (especially POSIX or Linux-style programs) would use them. Also I assumed XFree86 would use System V shared memory for the MIT-SHM extension. Are either of these assumptions correct, and for what programs is it desirable to have System V support in the kernel? 4) How is CD audio handled in FreeBSD? It appears to be totally different from both Linux and SunOS. I have an IDE CD-ROM and so this doesn't concern me until IDE CD-ROM support is solid enough for me to use (see my other post about my trouble with FreeBSD-current), but I'm curious as to how best to port a CD audio player from Linux. Thanks in advance! Keep up the good work... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 13:49:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA00148 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:49:13 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00134 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:49:09 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA09754; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:57:48 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA11883 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:25:11 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA11049 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:21:37 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA01581; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:54:42 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199508301854.UAA01581@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:54:41 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, piero@strider.ibenet.it, hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com In-Reply-To: <199508300814.SAA26623@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 30, 95 06:14:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 976 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> >Oh yeh, the docs should have something in big bold letters about linking > >> >/dev/mouse to /dev/cuaa0 under whatever name it ends up as... > >> That would be bogus. X works with the vanilla POSIX port ttyd0 and > >> always has. > >I'd not say it's "bogus". Maybe it's redundant, or strictly > >speaking "unnececessary", but as I suggested on -install I think > > I meant cuaa0 would be bogus. Who runs getty on their mouse port? > > Bruce You obviously never tried to catch a mouse ;-) But serious: I last week I converted a potential Linux user to FreeBSD. The install was simple but for the *&^*( mouse port he called me to ask what he should use. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 13:51:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA00354 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:51:43 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00345 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:51:31 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA09467; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:41:21 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508302041.NAA09467@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jdl@chromatic.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6125.809813521@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 30, 95 01:12:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2207 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > To generalize and maybe speak (incorrectly?) for others, I think this > > area of sysadmin scares people. I know I was scared by it because I use > > it so infrequently, know so little about it, and it's so potentially > > "catastrophic" when things go wrong. Handholding during this stage can > > be very useful and very important. > > I agree. The 2.0.5 install was, to go further, rather fundamentally > flawed in that it was an "all or nothing" kinda bet. You jumped in > and went all the way or you didn't bother jumping in. 2.1 will be > substantially different in that regard. I am afraid 72 hours before beta goes out the door is _not_ the time to come up with ``substatially different'' functionality. Take off your engineering hat, put on the shipping hat and kick the thing out the door. I have not seen the code commits to make sysinstall ``substatially different'' and the next 72 hours is not the time to make it that way. For the prior 2 releases the #1 gatting issues has been install tools, well, your not done again, just go with what is there, document the known bugs and short commings, write an appology for all the things promised that did not make it, and SHIP. Perhaps if you where to spend some time in other shoes of those who have to deal with product shipment on a day in day out business you might get a better appreciation for what it means to ``get it out the door on time''. And that this often means getting it out the door far from the ideal product you had in mind. It was agreed that at the 2.1 branch point there we be no _NEW_ functinality in 2.1 over 2.0.5, so far I have seen slow creep coming in, and am now going to yell FOUL as load as I can. You and David can override me, that is a majority vote of the release team, but right now I am standing here looking at the 4th day of failed make worlds in -stable and am starting to get rather PISSED about it. The delta rate of code change is suppose to go to near _ZERO_ before the beta goes out, not climb to a record high the day before! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 13:54:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA00543 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:54:52 -0700 Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00531 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:54:48 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA23249; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:53:22 -0700 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA22288; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:50:43 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:50:43 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199508302050.NAA22288@geli.clusternet> To: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, jdl@chrome.onramp.net Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk |From: Bruce Evans |Something like the following should work, but I'm less sure about it: | | disklabel /dev/rsd1 >/etc/label.sd1 # get sub-minimal label | vi /etc/label.sd1 # fix deficiencies in label; | # partition as required | disklabel -R -r sd1 /etc/label.sd1 | Would this work with the ncr controller, which has trouble guessing the right parameters with large drives? I can see an opportunity for a lot of experimenting on both the msdog/FreeBSD sides getting an initial set of parameters that would work with fdisk. Maybe that group of hackers-to-be could rip out the slicing/labelling part of sysinstall and build a standalone utility with it. Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 14:01:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA00916 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:01:41 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00906 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:01:37 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA06478; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:59:21 -0700 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: jdl@chromatic.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:41:21 PDT." <199508302041.NAA09467@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:59:21 -0700 Message-ID: <6476.809816361@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Take off your engineering hat, put on the shipping hat and kick the > thing out the door. I have not seen the code commits to make > sysinstall ``substatially different'' and the next 72 hours is not > the time to make it that way. Sigh... I'm responsible for this piece of technology, Rod, and it will meet my standards before I release it. Period. I'm not even going to argue about it with you, I'm just going to go back to work. Anybody thinks they can do it better and faster, they're more than free to jump at it! > majority vote of the release team, but right now I am standing here looking > at the 4th day of failed make worlds in -stable and am starting to get > rather PISSED about it. That's a different problem and I think that I'm getting unfair abuse because of it. You're spreading vinegar instead of honey again, and this little fly isn't having any of it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 14:07:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA01267 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:07:51 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01259 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:07:43 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA19197; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:04:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508302104.OAA19197@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:04:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jdl@chrome.onramp.net In-Reply-To: <199508301951.FAA19689@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 31, 95 05:51:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1308 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >Does it make sense to attempt to collect people's /etc/disktab entries > >and make them more available in the (next) released /etc/disktab? > > No. You would need a hundred entries for each of a few hundred disks > to get a reasonable coverage. No; it would be best to have calculated defaults with minimum values for partitions built into the disklabel program instead. The options of: 1) Device considered a single slice 2) Device considered multiple slices (has label) and exports slices as multiple pseudo type #1 devices. 3) Device considered as boot device with multiple slices (has label and boot code) and exports slices as multiple pseudo type #1 devices. 4) Device considered as DOS partitioned device. Eaxp DOS partition or extended partition exported as #1, #2, or #3, above (has DOS parititon table and boot sector -- PReP and OpenFirmware's so-called "DOS compatability area"). Should all be built into the tools and detectable via the drive contents themselves rather than needing a /etc/disktab. This would require coding defaults for slice vs. label vs. boot+label base on device name/attributes (what was the major # prior to devfs). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 14:08:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA01363 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:08:55 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01355 ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:08:53 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA19210; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:06:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508302106.OAA19210@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: pilot error on my part or feedback on the 2.1 snap To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:06:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199508301959.VAA04483@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Aug 30, 95 09:59:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 684 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > and remove the 1 bias in fdisk. > > Oooooh, this will confuse everybody who's already been slightly > dealing with disk setups. It's an arguably ugly, but long-standing > tradition to number the (physical) sectors on each track starting at > one. ``Correcting'' this now and only in one of 20 million operating > systems will violate the principle of least surprise. Better to violate the principle of least astonishment with people who can figure out what is going on. Which is why the DOS partitions should be called paritions, etc.. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 14:17:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA01841 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:17:32 -0700 Received: from argus.iadfw.net (argus.iadfw.net [204.178.72.68]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01823 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:17:24 -0700 Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.iadfw.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA04049; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:17:11 -0500 From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199508302117.QAA04049@argus.iadfw.net> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:17:10 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508300302.UAA05696@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 29, 95 08:02:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1793 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > Static memories are suspetable to alpha particule disturbance, it just > takes a heck of a lot more to do it, and given ceramic is out of the > picture it won't occur anyway. In a cmos static memory you have to have > enough disturbance to perturb the gate voltage of one side of the latch > to cause a bit flip, about 10 micro rinkens will do it, but it usually > sends the device into latchup at the same time :-). Also why static [Sandia process] memories are used in space and defense apps, Gawd knows they have enough Alpha sources at Sandia to do it right... > Current FIT per bit are in the 0.0002 to 0.0004 range, that is measure in > billions of power on hours. Today MTBF in a 2MB x 16 bit DRAM subsystem > is 30 to 35 years... I'd say I can live with that given that my disk > is going to go belly up in 57 years anyway :-) :-) :-) If you believe that, I have some beachfront property just west of Anacapa, about 150 meters down... If that you believe that crap, then the 486-66 I just replaced would be pushing 800 years old... Nobody except NASA, DoD, and a few large companies probably have clean rooms environmentally and power controlled enough to obtain these ridiculous MTBF ratings... Shit, On my personal machine alone, in the last 8 months, I've been through about 200 years worth of hard disks, hmmm, all seagate, I have yet to have a modern hard drive from seagate last as long as 'ol betsy [my old st-4096 cover off, over fireplace]... Jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, Sr. System/Network Admin, Internet America From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 14:22:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA02059 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:22:22 -0700 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA02052 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:22:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA06756; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:22:05 -0600 Message-Id: <199508302122.PAA06756@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Steve Passe To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: Jake Hamby Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2.1.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:46:41 PDT." Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:22:03 -0600 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > programs) would use them. Also I assumed XFree86 would use System V > shared memory for the MIT-SHM extension. Are either of these assumptions XFree86 does use the MIT-SHM extension. > 4) How is CD audio handled in FreeBSD? It appears to be totally > ... > curious as to how best to port a CD audio player from Linux. ports/audio/xmcd has a nice Motif cd player. unfortunately it is broken under current. (anyone find the fix yet???) -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 14:33:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA02644 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:33:56 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA02638 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:33:54 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id QAA05554; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:32:57 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199508302132.QAA05554@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:32:56 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508302012.GAA20135@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 31, 95 06:12:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >What's wrong with "ttya0" or "cuad0"? > > "ttyd0" is not distinguishable from "cuad0" when truncated to 2 characters > for printing by ps, etc. :-) I would gladly trade that very minor bit of information in exchange for the ability to name 32 serial ports in an easy-to-remember-and-translate fashion. In the process of setting up a BocaBoard 2016, I basically stopped in my tracks when I hit the 13th port. "Um. Ok, if I was on ttydf, I should really go to ttye0, but then what do I do with cuaaf, go to cuab0?" I decided the naming convention was poor at best and decided to continue running out through ttydj/cuaaj. This could conceivably handle 32 ports but it just looks silly, and it will need to be revamped in the future when somebody modifies sio to handle 1024++ serial ports (it breaks at 37 ports, which is NOT unthinkable!). Personally I _WOULD_ like to see the tty naming start with tty00-0f,10-1f, cua00-0f, etc. Maintaining the current behaviour for ps's benefit is rather shortsighted in my humble opinion because it *will* have to be broken at some point. ps will still give you a really good idea of which port a process is involved with, you'll just have to be clever enough to decide if "uucico" on "01" is either dial in or call out. :-) Is there anyone else besides me who is looking at putting lots of serial ports on a BSD box, by the way? ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 14:34:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA02699 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:34:14 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.84.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA02689 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:34:13 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (spegcs@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id QAA26378 for freebsd.org!hackers; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:18:40 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA08778; 30 Aug 95 12:11:09 CDT (Wed) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA17853; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:37:14 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9508301737.AA17853@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:37:13 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, piero@strider.ibenet.it, hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com In-Reply-To: <199508300814.SAA26623@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 30, 95 06:14:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 236 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I meant cuaa0 would be bogus. Who runs getty on their mouse port? Who cares about modem control on their mouse port? I don't use the ttyXX ports for anything that doesn't need modem control. Just seems cleaner to me. Am I confused? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 14:37:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA02880 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:37:37 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA02868 ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:37:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199508302137.OAA02868@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers), annex2@viking.emcmt.edu Subject: Re: FreeBSD Developement In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 95 21:54:10 +0200." <199508301954.VAA04454@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:37:28 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> >> I suggest that you guys spend a little time looking through the system >> and pick something that interests you. Maybe an emulation topic: DOS? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Windows? Linux? SCO? The emulation for all of those (especially the >> first two) needs some serious work and there's even existing sample >> code scattered throughout the Linux and NetBSD camps that one could >> use. > >Perhaps start with the base requirement for this: vm86(). Wasn't it >Justin who've already thought about a starting point? > >-- >cheers, J"org > >joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ >Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) Talk to Gary Clark. I sent him my OS/2 redbook. :) -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 14:52:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA03631 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:52:14 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA03623 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:52:06 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA19302; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:48:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508302148.OAA19302@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net (Jim Bryant) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:48:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199508302117.QAA04049@argus.iadfw.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Aug 30, 95 04:17:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 472 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > picture it won't occur anyway. In a cmos static memory you have to have > > enough disturbance to perturb the gate voltage of one side of the latch > > to cause a bit flip, about 10 micro rinkens will do it, but it usually > > sends the device into latchup at the same time :-). What the heck's a "rinken"? You mean Roentgen? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 14:53:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA03700 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:53:12 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA03683 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:52:47 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA23375; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:46:50 +1000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:46:50 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508302146.HAA23375@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, jdl@chrome.onramp.net, rcarter@geli.com Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >|Something like the following should work, but I'm less sure about it: >| >| disklabel /dev/rsd1 >/etc/label.sd1 # get sub-minimal label >| vi /etc/label.sd1 # fix deficiencies in label; >| # partition as required >| disklabel -R -r sd1 /etc/label.sd1 >| >Would this work with the ncr controller, which has trouble guessing >the right parameters with large drives? I can see an opportunity It doesn't depend on the controller or the drive (except for old ST506 and ESDI drive/controllers that don't report their geometry. >for a lot of experimenting on both the msdog/FreeBSD sides getting >an initial set of parameters that would work with fdisk. These are the BIOS geometry parameters. They aren't directly related to the drive or the controller. They are only used for booting, and then only if the bootstrap isn't on the first track as the BIOS sees it. The above method puts the bootstrap on the first track (if tracks have >= 16 sectors :-). The above method fails if the existing MBR is magic in some way, e.g., if it has Disk Manager on it. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 14:56:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA03837 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:56:24 -0700 Received: from lightlink.satcom.net (lightlink.satcom.net [204.33.174.10]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA03831 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:56:20 -0700 Received: (from iidpwr@localhost) by lightlink.satcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA26574; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 01:36:30 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 01:36:30 -0700 From: Imperial Irrigation District Message-Id: <199508220836.BAA26574@lightlink.satcom.net> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Anyone out there have any Amiga MovieSetter animations? Cc: multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anybody know where I can find a Vocie Mail software for FreeBSD? I am looking for a software which provides (1) voice menu, (2) 20 min. story (3) background stories? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 15:05:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA04375 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:05:14 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.84.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA04368 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:05:10 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id QAA00580 for freebsd.org!hackers; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:52:10 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA18291; 30 Aug 95 16:18:05 CDT (Wed) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA02398; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:44:09 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9508302144.AA02398@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:44:09 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508302012.GAA20135@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 31, 95 06:12:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 311 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > "ttyd0" is not distinguishable from "cuad0" when truncated to 2 characters > for printing by ps, etc. :-) *blink* I'm sorry, you completely lost me there. How can you possibly have getty on both the cuaXX and ttyXX ports? What's the point of making them different... they point to the same physical device! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 15:23:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA05388 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:23:52 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA05380 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:23:48 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA17301; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:21:36 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA06037; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:21:36 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA04892; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 23:09:08 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508302109.XAA04892@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 23:09:08 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jdl@chrome.onramp.net Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508301951.FAA19689@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 31, 95 05:51:22 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 496 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Bruce Evans wrote: > > >Does it make sense to attempt to collect people's /etc/disktab entries > >and make them more available in the (next) released /etc/disktab? > > No. You would need a hundred entries for each of a few hundred disks > to get a reasonable coverage. Seconded, especially since /etc/disktab is actually /etc/disk&partitiontab. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 15:44:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA06389 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:44:31 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA06377 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:44:26 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA25555; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:39:58 +1000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:39:58 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508302239.IAA25555@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, piero@strider.ibenet.it Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> I meant cuaa0 would be bogus. Who runs getty on their mouse port? >Who cares about modem control on their mouse port? I don't use the ttyXX >ports for anything that doesn't need modem control. Just seems cleaner to >me. Am I confused? The main purpose of cuaa0 to multiplex the port, not to disable modem control. In fact, cuaa0 normally has modem control. Modem control is disabled by setting CLOCAL after opening the port in O_NONBLOCK mode (like X does) or by setting it before opening the port and locking it on using the initial and lock state control devices. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 15:50:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA06749 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:50:38 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.84.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA06736 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 15:50:31 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id RAA06078 for freebsd.org!hackers; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:40:46 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA19315; 30 Aug 95 16:44:18 CDT (Wed) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA05015; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:10:14 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9508302210.AA05015@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:10:14 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508302132.QAA05554@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Aug 30, 95 04:32:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 559 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I would gladly trade that very minor bit of information in exchange for the > ability to name 32 serial ports in an easy-to-remember-and-translate > fashion. Yah. > "Um. Ok, if I was on ttydf, I should really go to ttye0, but then what do I > do with cuaaf, go to cuab0?" And why stop at "f" here anyway? > Is there anyone else besides me who is looking at putting lots of serial > ports on a BSD box, by the way? Funny you should mention that. I'm trying to move our current modems (on three boxes running two versions of System V) to a FreeBSD box. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 16:04:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA07350 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:04:29 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA07338 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:04:14 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA26409; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:00:48 +1000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:00:48 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508302300.JAA26409@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmt\i.com Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> "ttyd0" is not distinguishable from "cuad0" when truncated to 2 characters >> for printing by ps, etc. :-) >*blink* >I'm sorry, you completely lost me there. How can you possibly have getty >on both the cuaXX and ttyXX ports? What's the point of making them >different... they point to the same physical device! `talk peter ttyXX' won't work if peter is actually logged in to cuaXX. I'm not sure how you could be logged in to cuaXX. Perhaps something involving callback. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 16:34:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA08594 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:34:39 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA08587 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:34:23 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA27466; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:31:34 +1000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:31:34 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508302331.JAA27466@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> "ttyd0" is not distinguishable from "cuad0" when truncated to 2 characters >> for printing by ps, etc. :-) >I would gladly trade that very minor bit of information in exchange for the >ability to name 32 serial ports in an easy-to-remember-and-translate >fashion. >In the process of setting up a BocaBoard 2016, I basically stopped in my >tracks when I hit the 13th port. >"Um. Ok, if I was on ttydf, I should really go to ttye0, but then what do I >do with cuaaf, go to cuab0?" I have a cyclades card on cuac[g-h] for testing ([0-f] are unused). It's confusing. Hex numbering would confuse people who think in hex as badly as we do in base 36 :-). This problem should have been fixed for ptys long ago. I guess it less noticeable for ptys because there is no hardware to worry about. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 16:42:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA08712 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:42:22 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA08706 ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:42:18 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA29871; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:15:42 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508302345.JAA29871@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Naming competition (was Disklabel & friends) To: terry@Artisoft.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:15:42 +0930 (CST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508301733.KAA18701@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Aug 30, 95 10:33:14 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 859 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > > The interface sucks, the presentation sucks, the argument handling > > sucks and I'd say that the error checking sucks except for the fact > > that there isn't any. :-) > > He said "sucks". Huh huh huh. I'm going to stick my head out and ask for (brief) submissions as to which of Terry and Jordan are Beavis or Butthead. Note that justifications are essential. 8) > Terry Lambert (Note also the reply-to on this message) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 16:44:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA08809 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:44:31 -0700 Received: from devnull (devnull.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.29]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA08803 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:44:18 -0700 Received: from olympus by devnull (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA05577; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:44:05 -0500 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA16086; Wed, 30 Aug 95 18:43:55 CDT From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9508302343.AA16086@olympus> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:43:55 -0500 (CDT) Cc: Piero@strider.ibenet.it, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com In-Reply-To: <2335.809770195@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 30, 95 01:09:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1476 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > >Oh yeh, the docs should have something in big bold letters about linking > > > >/dev/mouse to /dev/cuaa0 under whatever name it ends up as... > > > > > > That would be bogus. X works with the vanilla POSIX port ttyd0 and > > > always has. > > > > I'd not say it's "bogus". Maybe it's redundant, or strictly > > I agree. I was already planning to put something in the 2.1 install > that said "What sort of mouse do you have? port assignments follows>" and then link /dev/mouse to it (and maybe > suggest that they rebuild a kernel, if it's a PS/2 mouse). > > Between serial meeces on different ports, PS/2 mice, and busmeeces, > it's a problem for new users. Making X standardise on /dev/mouse was > going to be my next request of those folks and we'd just make sure the > link was in place. But you would still have to select a mouse protocol in the XF86Config file. I would be thrilled to see which protocols are supported. I had to strings the server to figure out what they called the PS/2 mouse protocol. They call it PS/2. Bastards. :-) > > For that matter, if they have a modem on any port I'd be inclined to make > them a /dev/modem link too, but that's another topic. > > Jordan > -- _______________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner - faulkner@isd.tandem.com - http://cactus.org/~faulkner _______________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 17:05:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA09196 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:05:13 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA09187 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:05:06 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA09965; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:04:31 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508310004.RAA09965@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6476.809816361@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 30, 95 01:59:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5121 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > [Went for a walk.. it often helps... :-)] > > Take off your engineering hat, put on the shipping hat and kick the > > thing out the door. I have not seen the code commits to make > > sysinstall ``substatially different'' and the next 72 hours is not > > the time to make it that way. > > Sigh... I'm responsible for this piece of technology, Rod, and it > will meet my standards before I release it. Period. That is correct, you are responsible for that piece of technology, and you should not release it to anyplace until it meets your standards. I am saying that it does not meet the standards of the release criteria, and therefore becomes a 2.2 functional addition, not one to 2.1. We have been over this ground and it was agreed, no new functionality. You have now promised a boat load of ``new'' features and plan to implement them in 2.1 is something that the decision was already made and _AGREED_ to. This is a recuring theme, and yes, I am tearing you a new asshole over it, no that is not good for the project, so let try to reword this. a) When 2.1 was branched and the ``release team'' formed by a document I wrote at your request, reviewed and approved by both David and yourself for publication on both the -core team list for 1 round of reviews, and then to -current as publication I was under the firm impression that i) code going into 2.1 was to have at least 1 formal review by someone before being brought over. David would have all final says in kernel issues and ii) no new functionality of _ANY_ kind was to be added to this branch, it was to be a bugfix against 2.0.5. And David has already affirmed my view on this by saying things should go into -current and stew for at least a week or two before going over (though he himself has broken this concept 3 or 4 times in the last few days). b) ee is new green code, not sutible for production release, it's been in the tree 24 hours and has had a rash of commits, not a good canidate for release, lickely to put egg on our face. c) Major changes to sysinstall are major changes to code, to very critical code IMHO. Sysinstall as it stands right now is a very known quantity, yes it has some bugs, yes it is missing some features, but I dare say trying to cram what should be a minimum 30 day developement effort into 3 days and doing it the 3 days before the release is the best way I know to create a systinstall full of bugs. Of all people I though you had come to learn this by now, but evidently you desire to do it one more time. Well, since I have (now had) a voice in what went on the release branch for 2.1 as a release team member, I am voicing my opinion that I think this is a bad thing to be doing right now. > I'm not even > going to argue about it with you, I'm just going to go back to work. > Anybody thinks they can do it better and faster, they're more than > free to jump at it! I don't want it done ``better and faster'' for 2.1, I want it done slow and correct for 2.2. We have known quantity and quality code with sysinstall now document the hell out of the bugs, fix the clear cut ones (even gotta be very carefull doing that or you add one while removing one :-() You had 2 months of delay to go write a better sysinstall, why is it coming in 3 days before release? You should have no special treatment here, if Joe blow walked up to any release team person right now and said, hey, that whizzy wig woggler devfs code is neato nifty, would you pull it into 2.1 we would all tell him to go jump off a cliff as it is far to green. Well, your code is not even in the tree yet, so, ``go jump off a cliff'' :-) :-) :-) NOTE SMILEYS.. I think you get my drift. > > > majority vote of the release team, but right now I am standing here looking > > at the 4th day of failed make worlds in -stable and am starting to get > > rather PISSED about it. > > That's a different problem and I think that I'm getting unfair abuse > because of it. You're spreading vinegar instead of honey again, and > this little fly isn't having any of it. Your right, it is a different problem. And your about to watch me go code smashing through -stable to fix it as I need it building at all times, and that was clearly stated as an objective. We are humans, errors are made, and I need to address my ``pissed'' state on that issue with the correct person and try to find a modous oparandi and or paradigm that prevents it from occuring again when we get close to the 2.1 release code cut as I surely do not want to see another 30k line diff go in 3 days before a code cut anyplace, weither that be FreeBSD or HP-UX or Solaris, it's just a really foolish thing to do in the world of software release and quality. Perhaps I should dig out a few of the papers I have on these issues and shove them in the right mail slots :-) :-). I'll shove one in there now.. /usr/share/doc/releng.ascii... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 17:21:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA09666 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:21:02 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA09658 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:20:54 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA10012; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:20:20 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508310020.RAA10012@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net (Jim Bryant) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508302117.QAA04049@argus.iadfw.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Aug 30, 95 04:17:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3163 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In reply: > > > > Static memories are suspetable to alpha particule disturbance, it just > > takes a heck of a lot more to do it, and given ceramic is out of the > > picture it won't occur anyway. In a cmos static memory you have to have > > enough disturbance to perturb the gate voltage of one side of the latch > > to cause a bit flip, about 10 micro rinkens will do it, but it usually > > sends the device into latchup at the same time :-). > > Also why static [Sandia process] memories are used in space and defense apps, > Gawd knows they have enough Alpha sources at Sandia to do it right... :-) > > > Current FIT per bit are in the 0.0002 to 0.0004 range, that is measure in > > billions of power on hours. Today MTBF in a 2MB x 16 bit DRAM subsystem > > is 30 to 35 years... I'd say I can live with that given that my disk > > is going to go belly up in 57 years anyway :-) :-) :-) > > If you believe that, I have some beachfront property just west of Anacapa, > about 150 meters down... If that you believe that crap, then the 486-66 I > just replaced would be pushing 800 years old... Nobody except NASA, DoD, > and a few large companies probably have clean rooms environmentally and > power controlled enough to obtain these ridiculous MTBF ratings... Just quoting the statistics folks, and note the tripple smily, and perhaps read my other email about MTBF numbers >500K, I am on record as clearly stating the MTBF calculations methods are old and crusty and do not scale well into the ranges they are being used today. I will take the FIT numbers as solid statistic data, that was from collected test data and correlates with reality well. In the approximate 10TB of memory I have been around in the last 1 year I have seen 2 failures in time after removing infant mortality, much lower than the above collected statistic, and they had more data than me :-). The memory manufactures have some of the best clean rooms in the world, they always have, and always well, they are the ones pushing the scales down to sizes unheard of faster than anyone else in this field. Memory was submicron < 5V core 4 years before logic. Most of the advancements in silicon fabrication with respect to densities come from the memory manufactures. > Shit, On my personal machine alone, in the last 8 months, I've been through > about 200 years worth of hard disks, hmmm, all seagate, I have yet to have > a modern hard drive from seagate last as long as 'ol betsy [my old st-4096 > cover off, over fireplace]... Stop buying SeaCRATES... :-) :-) :-). I have had 0 disk failures at my site in 2 years, 1 in 3. Of the 100's of drives I have sold I have had 2 field failures in 3 years, I have had 27 infant deaths :-(. Your using the wrong drives or your conditions are not healthy for the disk. MTBF's go to pot if you operate outside of the contraints of the MTBF calcuation basis [which most adds fail to mention all the values used in arriving at this un godly >500K MTBF values.] -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 17:36:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA10062 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:36:02 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA10049 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:35:46 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA01381; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:35:24 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508310035.RAA01381@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508310004.RAA09965@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 30, 95 05:04:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1096 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have to side with rod on this... dding a crucially missing item in sysinstall is ok.. (could be considered a bugfix) rewriting it is a bad idea.. bringing in a new editor is a bad idea, (unless the old one is still there) > > > > says in kernel issues and ii) no new functionality of _ANY_ kind > was to be added to this branch, it was to be a bugfix against 2.0.5. > > b) ee is new green code, not sutible for production release, it's been > in the tree 24 hours and has had a rash of commits, not a good > canidate for release, lickely to put egg on our face. (unless it can squeeze in AS WELL as vi..) (may people can't run vi... do you blame them:) ) > > I don't want it done ``better and faster'' for 2.1, I want it done slow > and correct for 2.2. We have known quantity and quality code with sysinstall > now document the hell out of the bugs, fix the clear cut ones (even gotta > be very carefull doing that or you add one while removing one :-() 2.1 should have 'known bugfixes for 2.0.5' and 'easily fixable oversights for the install of 2.0.5' julian > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 17:40:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA10226 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:40:55 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA10220 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:40:52 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA10069; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:40:00 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508310040.RAA10069@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199508302148.OAA19302@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Aug 30, 95 02:48:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 902 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > > picture it won't occur anyway. In a cmos static memory you have to have > > > enough disturbance to perturb the gate voltage of one side of the latch > > > to cause a bit flip, about 10 micro rinkens will do it, but it usually > > > sends the device into latchup at the same time :-). > > What the heck's a "rinken"? You mean Roentgen? Sorry mixed physical units names ``Rankine'' is a rarely used scale for temperature. Proper physics units would be something like 10 micro rads. 1 rad is 0.01J/kg of radition energy. Roentgen (93 ergs/g) are used for radition measurement absorbotion by soft body tissue, not the right unit when dealing with semiconductors :-). Now should we talk about rep's and rem's, or perhaps even RBE's? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 17:44:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA10341 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:44:17 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA10332 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:44:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA07698; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:37:45 -0700 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:04:31 PDT." <199508310004.RAA09965@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:37:43 -0700 Message-ID: <7696.809829463@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > You have now promised a boat load of ``new'' features and plan to implement > them in 2.1 is something that the decision was already made and _AGREED_ > to. > > This is a recuring theme, and yes, I am tearing you a new asshole over > it, no that is not good for the project, so let try to reword this. And I appreciate that. Let me see if I can make my position plainer and see what people on this list think of the whole situation. First, let me be the first to say that this work should have been done MONTHS ago. I know that. For one reason or another, too much stuff happened in my life and the project and I didn't even so much as get the chance to look at it. Such is life, and I wish it were otherwise. Second, let me clarify what the "recurring theme" REALLY is here. The problem is that I hate our install to pieces and consider it as broken as David would, say, a UFS bug that randomly trashed your disk once every other day or so. Would you agree to releasing 2.1 the following day if we discovered such a bug in UFS? Of course you wouldn't - the damage to our reputation would be incalculable and you'd know that as well as everyone else. However, when people can't install FreeBSD or they have a really hard time doing it, it also does damage to our reputation and perhaps you don't appreciate the full magnitude of each shortcoming as much as I do given that such letters are generally sent to _me_. I could forward each and every one to -hackers, and will if people would like me to, but I've just never seen much point in that as I've generally been the only one on the sysinstall hook anyway. If I could put our installation on a timeline, it would look like this: 1.0 - Beyond terrible. There aren't too many words in the english language that go far enough, so let me just summarize the install here as "unacceptably bad by all biological standards" 1.1 - Still terrible. Cosmetic fixes, but terrible, evil, horrible. 1.1.5.1 - See 1.1. 2.0 - First attempt to fix the horror. Addresses many evils, introduces still more. On the whole, a failure. A quick and nasty botch and about as tough and robust as a robin's egg. 2.0.5 - Good intentions, bad, rushed implementation. Rushed because of bad timing and the fact that not enough time was budgeted to deal with slice changes. EVERYTHING in the 2.0.5 install was a trade-off in achieving the absolute minimum in install functionality in the shortest possible time, and the basic approach to installation was subsequently proven to be entirely wrong, like a car with no brakes and the ability to drive on only one road! Would you like to drive such a car? Our users certainly didn't seem to enjoy the experience in the many cases when it crashed them into a wall or didn't allow them to turn just when they really needed to. Again, all code freeze issues aside, 2.1 WAS intended to redress the balance of the many wrongs committed against our user base with 2.0.5 and that was certainly always my understanding during the many conversations I've had over the months with folks like David, Poul and Gary. Be careful what you defend - you just might get it! I'm perfectly willing to just put sysinstall in the can right NOW, as it was in the last snapshot, and that's no threat at all - I really can do that with almost no effort. It should build well enough, and it works well enough for some percentage of users to get from A to Z with it. But only some, and we WILL get a lot of complaints. Trust me, I know what's wrong with that code and you can easily screw yourself very badly with it, assuming that you can even install with it at all. There is a disturbing number of users for whom sysinstall has never worked! I helped them for as long as I could and then regretfully waved goodbye to them as they (with equal regrets) abandoned FreeBSD and went to Linux as the only OS that would install for them. Needless to say, having my name on something that broken causes me almost physical pain, especially when I *know* how to fix a lot of it and know that fixing it will save me and the other project members endless grief in answering the same questions over and over and over and.. Well, you get the picture. The only fly in the ointment is that it's late, and I know that. I am working hard to try to deal with that now, and I DO have a substantial advantage over what I had last time! I have a complete libdisk to work from, I know HOW to work with it now and all the ftp stuff is also ready to grab and fold in. Those two things alone probably accounted for at least 90% of the time invested in the 2.0.5 sysinstall and they, with a few minor tweaks, will work just fine in what I'm working on. I have a proposal. I'll keep working on the system I want to ship, here in my corner with no serious pressure (except for what I apply to myself). If the release date is actually imminent (and it's not at the moment, David's not even done merging bug fixes yet) and I've still not got something better than what we have now, then I'll do what I suggested; I'll just go with sysinstall from 2.1.0-950726-SNAP and be done with it for 2.1. No delays from me, no shifts in paradigm, just the same old thing you all saw from the last SNAP. I'll be sad, but I know that the SNAP worked for as many people (if not more) than 2.0.5, so we'll be no WORSE off at least. As you've resigned from the release team, I don't see the actual methodology we use as affecting your life significantly in any way, just so long as it goes out close to on-time (modulo any other delays beyond my control) and in an installable shape. Heck, since you say you roll your own releases anyway and have for some time, you can even continue using my old sysinstall if you like it better for some reason. I'm certainly not going to personally force you into anything. How's that for a compromise? What do others think? Are perhaps a few weeks in extra hassles worth saving potentially many months of anguised user questions? I think so, but if the rest of you are too eager for 2.1 to even possibly wait that long (and I really am talking worst case, at least from my contribution's side of things) then I'll go with the previous sysinstall. Heck, in some ways it sure would make my life a lot EASIER! I could see it go either way, just so long as I was sure it was what people really wanted. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 17:50:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA10635 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:50:50 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA10622 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:50:34 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA09845; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:49:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199508310049.RAA09845@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Imperial Irrigation District cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Anyone out there have any Amiga MovieSetter animations? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Aug 1995 01:36:30 PDT." <199508220836.BAA26574@lightlink.satcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:49:48 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Imperial Irrigation District said: > Does anybody know where I can find a Vocie Mail software for FreeBSD? > I am looking for a software which provides (1) voice menu, (2) 20 min. story > (3) background stories? > See : rah.star-gate.com:/pub/Voice.FAQ Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 17:54:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA10714 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:54:08 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA10708 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:54:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA07764; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:47:41 -0700 To: Julian Elischer cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:35:23 PDT." <199508310035.RAA01381@ref.tfs.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:47:40 -0700 Message-ID: <7762.809830060@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I have to side with rod on this... > dding a crucially missing item in sysinstall is ok.. > (could be considered a bugfix) > rewriting it is a bad idea.. I'm not re-writing it so much as "reshuffling" it so that people have the option of doing various things "atomically" rather than in one unbreakable sequence. It will also let you skip all the fdisk/disklabel questions and just figure out (very conservative!) defaults on its own in "express" mode, helping those who were terminally confused by the previous "you must understand slices or die!" system. > bringing in a new editor is a bad idea, (unless the old one is still there) People kinda missed the point of that one. Rather than put vi on the boot floppy, where it only eats tons-o-space and is used once to toss the unsuspecting user into an empty /etc/exports file (that was real bright, that one!), I was going to put ee on there to take up far less space and also give the user some idea as to how to USE the damn editor. vi itself hasn't gone anywhere, it's just not being [mis]tasked for this purpose.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 17:59:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA10918 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:59:38 -0700 Received: from kesa26.Kesa.COM ([192.88.116.15]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA10912 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:59:36 -0700 Received: by kesa26.Kesa.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA04493; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:47:35 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 17:47:35 -0700 From: pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM (Pete Delaney) Message-Id: <9508310047.AA04493@kesa26.Kesa.COM> To: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Stop buying SeaCRATES... :-) :-) :-). At Auspex their Disk Drive people found the SeaCRATE 4GB Hawk to be more relialiable that the Micropolus 4GB drive. I believe here at Kesa they also had to return a 4BG Micropolus drive. Perhaps the SeaCRATE drives made in Singapore are ok. -pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 18:00:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA11005 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:00:42 -0700 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA10998 for freebsd-hackers; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:00:42 -0700 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199508310100.SAA10998@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Subject: fdisk-disklabel To: freebsd-hackers Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:00:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 556 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, How hard would it be to just yank those two menu entries from sysinstall and call it disksetup? Why rewrite the stuff when there is code sitting there that works fine? Of course you would need a little glue here and there, but nothing even close to a full re-write. Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/share/FAQ/Text/FreeBSD.FAQ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 18:01:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA11089 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:01:55 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA11083 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:01:54 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com (miles.wdl.loral.com) by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (5.x/WDL-2.4-1.0) id AA22600; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:01:22 -0700 Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA26345; Wed, 30 Aug 95 21:01:24 EDT Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:01:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: hackers Subject: rplay port vs package ? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Gentlemen; With Amancio's assistance, I figured out enough about the snd driver to get my SB16 playing midi and .au files. Then I went after rplay, to incorporate into CTWM. On my 2.0.5R system: rplay is not in packages/audio... rplay is in /crdom/ports/audio/rplay Attempted to run Makefile from /cdrom/ports/audio/rplay: make That really didn't work.. Afterlooking at the beginning of bsd.ports.mk make WKRDIR=/usr/tmp/rply No luck.. not in /usr/ports/distfiles... Not available at MASTER_SITES, ... not available at ftp://freebsd.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/distfiles/ Manual ftp found a file in 2.0 distfiles, but not 2.0.5. ftp'ed rplay-3.2.0b2.tgz back to /usr/ports/distfiles. Still not found on my system. The EXTRACT_SUFX?= .tar.gz, while the file itself is .tgz. renamed the file Now the md5 signatures don't match!! Item 1. If the same distfile is used for ports in 2.0 and 2.0.5, couldn't they be stored in a common place, rather than under release specific locations. Isn't there really only one rplay-3.2.0b2.tgz distfile? Item 2. When building a port, isn't it likely that the user is not running -current, (the ftp target location). Item 3. To learn this, I made changes to bsd.ports.mk so that it would tell me what paths as well as file names were failing. A verbose option would be nice for people who are not familiar with how this port/package system works. WRKDIR(r/w) = /cdrom/ports/audio/rplay/work DISTDIR(ro) = /usr/ports/distfiles DISTNAME = rplay-3.2.0b2.tar.gz ... Just a few bits of information would help the uninitiated to atleast realize that a WKKDIR of /cdrom/ports/audio/rplay probably isn't going to work. Item 4. How do I get past this md5 problem?? ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 18:12:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA11444 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:12:36 -0700 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA11431 ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:12:35 -0700 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199508310112.SAA11431@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Developement To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, annex2@viking.emcmt.edu In-Reply-To: <199508302137.OAA02868@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Aug 30, 95 02:37:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1914 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> > >> I suggest that you guys spend a little time looking through the system > >> and pick something that interests you. Maybe an emulation topic: DOS? > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> Windows? Linux? SCO? The emulation for all of those (especially the > >> first two) needs some serious work and there's even existing sample > >> code scattered throughout the Linux and NetBSD camps that one could > >> use. > > > >Perhaps start with the base requirement for this: vm86(). Wasn't it > >Justin who've already thought about a starting point? > > > >-- > >cheers, J"org > > > >joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ > >Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > > Talk to Gary Clark. I sent him my OS/2 redbook. :) > -- > Justin T. Gibbs > =========================================== > Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM > FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations > =========================================== > Hello, Ok, I'm in the process of upgrading to Current as I speak, and after I get this system running again, I will bring my changes into current here and Post the diffs for testing. Status: kernel mod to put system into VM86 mode syscall to do this problems allocing mem to make this useful looking at Mach DOS,Linux and NetBSD for useful information or creative hacks allows either 0 or 3 level (at this point only 0 works at all(no iomap)) thinking about a syscall for doing BIOS calls only with a general one later email me for more details or if you want to help:) Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/share/FAQ/Text/FreeBSD.FAQ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 18:16:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA11613 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:16:35 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA11597 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:16:29 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id VAA06473; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:21:58 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:21:58 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199508310121.VAA06473@healer.com> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > no new functionality of _ANY_ kind > was to be added to this branch, it was to be a bugfix against 2.0.5. Then it should not be called 2.1 The new .1 (vs .0*) says to most release engineers a significant improvement. Only one step below the chance from 1.* to 2.* So if it is just bug-fixes, and you are dis-allowing any new functionality (which from the user's point of view means denying them stuff that is there and working) call it 2.0.9 As far as the "no new functionality" rules goes, does that mean no new ports? no new packages? no new VERSIONS of existing ports or packages or utilities? If that is the case, call is 2.0.5.1 As far as making the beta release date, go ahead, then do a second beta with the few changes. You'll theoretically be including beta feedback into the release anyway, and much of the existing feedback (before even the beta is shipped) is that we want better installation and configuration routines. I'm sure I speak for most of the FreeBSD users that we'd rather see the next version - with the changes - 1 month later than have to wait another 3 months for them if they don't make it into this release. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 18:25:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA11924 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:25:59 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA11914 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:25:53 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com (miles.wdl.loral.com) by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (5.x/WDL-2.4-1.0) id AA23155; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:25:16 -0700 Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA26411; Wed, 30 Aug 95 21:25:18 EDT Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:25:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: hackers Subject: rplay..my mistake(sortof) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I got misplaced in my search for rplay. There is a 3.2.0b3.tar.gz in the distfile directory, but no 3.2.0b2.tar.gz. There is a rplay in /packages/All which I assume is only if running -current. There is a rplay in /packages-2.0/All There is no rplay in packages-2.0.5/All My comments concerning less tha guru users and confusion stand. Is thia a marketing issue? Can I run tha 2.0 package on 2.0.5, or was it not included for a compatability reason? ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 18:26:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA11977 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:26:18 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA11971 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:26:17 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA01516; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:26:04 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508310126.SAA01516@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM (Pete Delaney) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <9508310047.AA04493@kesa26.Kesa.COM> from "Pete Delaney" at Aug 30, 95 05:47:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 794 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > Stop buying SeaCRATES... :-) :-) :-). > > At Auspex their Disk Drive people found the SeaCRATE 4GB Hawk to be > more relialiable that the Micropolus 4GB drive. I believe here at > Kesa they also had to return a 4BG Micropolus drive. Perhaps the > SeaCRATE drives made in Singapore are ok. > > -pete since Seagate bought all those other places, and they have several design/build groups you have to be sure which group the drive came from.. I BELIEVE that drives that come from what WAS the CDC disk section (did that go via Imprimis?) are ok.. HAWK sounds like it should come from that division.. they always liked bird names.. (e.g the 10MB HAWK drive, the 90MB Phoenix, etc...) (never saw a VULTURE drive but they'd have been a good one to sell to government ) > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 18:26:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA12023 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:26:25 -0700 Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA11998 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:26:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA06418 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:37:21 -0400 Message-Id: <199508310137.VAA06418@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2.1.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:46:41 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:37:21 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > so I would recommend tcsh over bash (even > though Linux uses bash by default). No! No! a thousand times No! My fingers are too old to change! Besides I build readline into everthing I use. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 18:42:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA13776 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:42:13 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA13765 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:42:01 -0700 Received: from nike.efn.org (garcia.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA01262; Wed, 30 Aug 95 18:40:48 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:42:32 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: problems with programs being swaped out!! Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk right now I am having a regular problem with programs getting swapped out but never getting back in... right now Netscape just died on me wand it has the ps flags of: IW Right now netscape just stop responding... I have a 486/33DX (running at 40mhz), w/ 8megs ram and swap: Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s4b 9576 9152 360 96% Interleaved /dev/wd2s4b 38760 9152 29544 24% Interleaved Total 48208 18304 29904 38% is what is current... top says that I only have 56k real memory free... what can I do to force it to swap back in? this happens to me regularly... if I am browsing the web it might happen 5+ times a night... any help besides more ram? (might be adding 1 or 2 megs soon...) TTYL... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 18:54:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA14165 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:54:24 -0700 Received: from physics.su.oz.au (physics.su.OZ.AU [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA14152 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:54:12 -0700 Received: by physics.su.oz.au id AA14169 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:49:49 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199508310149.AA14169@physics.su.oz.au> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:49:48 +1000 (EST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, Piero@strider.ibenet.it, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com In-Reply-To: <9508302343.AA16086@olympus> from "Boyd Faulkner" at Aug 30, 95 06:43:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1321 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > > >Oh yeh, the docs should have something in big bold letters about linking >> > > >/dev/mouse to /dev/cuaa0 under whatever name it ends up as... >> > > >> > > That would be bogus. X works with the vanilla POSIX port ttyd0 and >> > > always has. >> > >> > I'd not say it's "bogus". Maybe it's redundant, or strictly >> >> I agree. I was already planning to put something in the 2.1 install >> that said "What sort of mouse do you have? > port assignments follows>" and then link /dev/mouse to it (and maybe >> suggest that they rebuild a kernel, if it's a PS/2 mouse). >> >> Between serial meeces on different ports, PS/2 mice, and busmeeces, >> it's a problem for new users. Making X standardise on /dev/mouse was >> going to be my next request of those folks and we'd just make sure the >> link was in place. > >But you would still have to select a mouse protocol in the XF86Config file. >I would be thrilled to see which protocols are supported. I had to >strings the server to figure out what they called the PS/2 mouse protocol. > >They call it PS/2. Reading the XF86Config(5) man page might have been easier. Also you could use the xf86config utility to generate your XF86Config file, and it will show you the available protocols and ask you which you want. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 18:58:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA14299 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:58:54 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA14293 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:58:52 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA08032; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:52:12 -0700 To: Coranth Gryphon cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:21:58 EDT." <199508310121.VAA06473@healer.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:52:12 -0700 Message-ID: <8030.809833932@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm sure I speak for most of the FreeBSD users that we'd rather see the next > version - with the changes - 1 month later than have to wait another 3 months > for them if they don't make it into this release. Funny. Someone, who's name I'll refrain from mentioning here, was just musing to me the other day that maybe we should just SKIP 2.1 and go to 2.2.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 19:03:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA14486 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:03:03 -0700 Received: from kesa26.Kesa.COM ([192.88.116.15]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA14479 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:03:01 -0700 Received: by kesa26.Kesa.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA04607; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:50:28 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 18:50:28 -0700 From: pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM (Pete Delaney) Message-Id: <9508310150.AA04607@kesa26.Kesa.COM> To: julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 Cc: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net, pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Julian: > since Seagate bought all those other places, > and they have several design/build groups you have to be sure which group > the drive came from.. > > I BELIEVE that drives that come from what WAS the CDC disk section > (did that go via Imprimis?) are ok.. Nice to know the CDC drives are ok; Thanks. > HAWK sounds like it should come from that division.. > they always liked bird names.. > (e.g the 10MB HAWK drive, the 90MB Phoenix, etc...) > (never saw a VULTURE drive but they'd have been a good one to > sell to government ) Perhaps they are desiged in Phoenix and manufactored in Singapore. I think Quantum is moving some of it's manufactoring to Singapore. The 4GB HAWK is very similar to the 4GB Barracuda. The HAWK is made in Singapore and I believe the Barracuda is also. I've never thought of Seagate as a good manufactor, I was surprised to hear that the 4GB Barracuda was a good drive. After I bought a 4GB HAWK the guys at Auspex thought it was a better choice that the 4GB Micropolus. The only difference that I know of between the two drives is that the 4GB Barracuda has a slightly faster access time; 9ms as I recall. Up to now I've had no problems with the 4GB Hawk, Time will tell. It runs cool enough that you don't even need a fan in the SPARCStation-1 (or -2) pizza box. -pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 19:09:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA14649 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:09:54 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA14639 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:09:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA11272; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:04:49 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199508310204.IAA11272@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:04:49 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com, hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmt\i.com In-Reply-To: <199508302300.JAA26409@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 31, 95 09:00:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 788 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >> "ttyd0" is not distinguishable from "cuad0" when truncated to 2 characters > >> for printing by ps, etc. :-) > > >*blink* > > >I'm sorry, you completely lost me there. How can you possibly have getty > >on both the cuaXX and ttyXX ports? What's the point of making them > >different... they point to the same physical device! > > `talk peter ttyXX' won't work if peter is actually logged in to cuaXX. > I'm not sure how you could be logged in to cuaXX. Perhaps something > involving callback. Logging on cuaXX may be useful when connecting a local terminal by a cable with broken null-modem connection (many of them contain no wire from DTR to DCD). Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 19:49:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA18155 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:49:30 -0700 Received: from Glock.COM (glock.com [198.82.228.165]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18146 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 19:49:24 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by Glock.COM (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA15426; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:51:38 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:51:38 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199508310251.WAA15426@Glock.COM> To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: accelx-users@crab.accelx.com Subject: Mosaic 2.7b1 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone built this on their system? Does anyone know where the code that controls the byte ordering for 24 bit color is? I built it fine, but I'm having the green looking graphics problem that is associated with having the wrong byte order for the graphical data. Any ideas? Thanks! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM | Network Administration and Software Development http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ | Consulting: BizNet Technologies -> mmead@bnt.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 20:07:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA18722 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:07:38 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18716 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:07:32 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA00536; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:41:01 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199508310311.MAA00536@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2.1.0 To: smp@csn.net (Steve Passe) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:41:00 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com In-Reply-To: <199508302122.PAA06756@clem.systemsix.com> from "Steve Passe" at Aug 30, 95 03:22:03 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 985 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Steve Passe stands accused of saying: > > 4) How is CD audio handled in FreeBSD? It appears to be totally > > ... > > curious as to how best to port a CD audio player from Linux. > ports/audio/xmcd has a nice Motif cd player. unfortunately it is > broken under current. (anyone find the fix yet???) For those that haven't noticed, in /usr/sbin there is cdplay, a very simple (text-based) CD audio player for (at least) SCSI CDroms. The Tk-based CD (XCD) player package installs a similar (but broken) program 'cdplayer', but it can be easily frobbed to use cdplay instead. > Steve Passe | powered by -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 20:13:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA18950 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:13:46 -0700 Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18906 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:13:02 -0700 Received: from mocha.eng.umd.edu (mocha.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.16]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id WAA07741; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:39:33 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by mocha.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id WAA17174; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:39:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:39:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GNUmalloc for XFree86 In-Reply-To: <199508301824.LAA06711@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > Howdy, > > Has anyone out there experienced crashes with the XFree86-3.1.2 installation > which didn't happen before? No. Fine for me. I run Cirrus cards.... > > > Tnks, > Amancio > > >>> Steve Passe said: > > Hi, > > > > > If it's tangible, I might go fetch the X sources and rebuld (any pitfalls > > > to watch for here?) > > > > XFree86-3.1.2 use gnumalloc by default. > > > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 20:30:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA19486 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:30:25 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA19476 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:30:21 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA26359; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:32:13 -0600 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:32:13 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199508310332.VAA26359@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff In-Reply-To: <199508310004.RAA09965@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> References: <6476.809816361@time.cdrom.com> <199508310004.RAA09965@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I don't believe I'm actually defending Jordan against Rod, since most of the time I agree with Rod but anything is possible I guess. [ sysinstall changes ] > You have now promised a boat load of ``new'' features and plan to implement > them in 2.1 is something that the decision was already made and _AGREED_ > to. Actually, I know at least some of the promised changes are already in the code. I was using -stable for building the install disk for the Thinkpad, and it is definitely different from the install I just did from the 2.0.5 CD. > b) ee is new green code, not sutible for production release, it's been > in the tree 24 hours and has had a rash of commits, not a good > canidate for release, lickely to put egg on our face. Rash of commits == 2 commits. One is to fix 8-bit mode by Andrey, the other is to add new languages to the code. Neither of the commits were bug fixes, and IF he would have committed the code with the new features in place it would have completely screwed up any new imports of the code from the original tree later. > c) Major changes to sysinstall are major changes to code, to very > critical code IMHO. Sysinstall as it stands right now is a very > known quantity, yes it has some bugs, yes it is missing some features, > but I dare say trying to cram what should be a minimum 30 day developement > effort into 3 days and doing it the 3 days before the release is the > best way I know to create a systinstall full of bugs. See above. > You had 2 months of delay to go write a better sysinstall, why is it coming > in 3 days before release? You should have no special treatment here, That's where I think you are wrong Rod. He *does* have special treatment to do anything he likes as one of the releas engineers. If he hoses up the entire release, it's his butt hanging out in the wind. > Joe blow walked up to any release team person right now and said, hey, > that whizzy wig woggler devfs code is neato nifty, would you pull it into > 2.1 we would all tell him to go jump off a cliff as it is far to green. True, but because the release engineer(s) are the FreeBSD gods, they can do anything they wish. If it breaks the tree, and wipes out hard-disks of all the machines it touches, *they* must fix the code and spend the long hours it takes to fix the tree and calm the users down. It's all nice and good to have guidelines for doing things, but when push comes to shove the rel.eng. has FINAL say on everything that goes in the the tree. No ifs, ands, or butts get in the way. (Note the intentional misspelling on the last one for a lame attempt at humor). If Jordan/David breaks the release tree, it is their responsibility to clean it up. If the FreeBSD 2.1 release sucks the big one, then it sucks the big one. Hollering at them isn't going to change their mind about what they are doing. We've all been doing this long enough to know the consequences of bad decisions. Finally, what is coming up is *NOT* the 2.1 release, but a 2.1-SNAP. I'd rather see the code in the tree so it can be tested in the SNAP for a longer period of time than to see if take 30 more days to get in and have a crappy install for 2.1. 'Nuff said, Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 20:41:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA20000 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:41:17 -0700 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA19991 for freebsd-hackers; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:41:15 -0700 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199508310341.UAA19991@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Subject: fdisk-disklabel part 2 To: freebsd-hackers Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:41:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 777 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Ok, I've not got a "hacked" sysinstall that only does fdisking, labeling and newfsing. Right now I'm trying to track down where this sigfault is coming from after labeling and before newfing. This is bloated as I've not trimmed out anything besides what was required to get it work. Point: Why does only create a 'e' partion when I've only got one partion selected??? Expect an upload to freefall tonight. Gary Disclaimer: This is a HACK! I've done just enough to get it to run...:) -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/share/FAQ/Text/FreeBSD.FAQ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 20:57:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA20342 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:57:39 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA20336 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:57:35 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA21422; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:56:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA20539; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:58:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199508310358.UAA20539@corbin.Root.COM> To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 95 21:32:13 MDT." <199508310332.VAA26359@rocky.sri.MT.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:58:21 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (Jordan said:) >Funny. Someone, who's name I'll refrain from mentioning here, was >just musing to me the other day that maybe we should just SKIP 2.1 and >go to 2.2.. :-) That was me. I was joking of course, but there was a small element of truth. (Nate said:) >clean it up. If the FreeBSD 2.1 release sucks the big one, then it >sucks the big one. Hollering at them isn't going to change their mind >about what they are doing. We've all been doing this long enough to >know the consequences of bad decisions. > >Finally, what is coming up is *NOT* the 2.1 release, but a 2.1-SNAP. >I'd rather see the code in the tree so it can be tested in the SNAP for >a longer period of time than to see if take 30 more days to get in and >have a crappy install for 2.1. Yes, and I apologize for the 2.1 tree brokeness that Rod has complained about. This is the product of a large amount of effort to get all the changes in before the snapshot. It's very important that as many changes as possible that we want to be in the release be in the next snapshot. We are trying to get this release out the door, and dribbling in the changes will only delay it by months more. ...and I'm still not done yet. I have to finish up the userland and then return to merging kernel stuff. There are a pile of important fixes in -current that must be in the release, and I haven't hardly touched the 2.1 kernel yet. Anyway, I have too much to do and no time to argue about this. I intend to strike a balance between stability, features, and release schedule. The emphasis will be on stability, followed by release schedule, and features last. I will make an effort to bring in improvements (fixes or features) if I think they would make 2.1 a better release...so to those who want 2.1 to be a release with "meat", don't worry, it'll will be plenty "meaty". :-) -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 20:59:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA20411 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:59:29 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA20400 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 20:59:23 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <02573-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:58:39 +1000 Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id OAA11043; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:03:04 +1000 Received: by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.3) id NAA15714; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:57:49 +1000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:57:49 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199508310357.NAA15714@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: Alexandre Moriya - esp cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: mountd -n hates 'nobody' (was: Re: Exporting a file system to a PC.) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Alexandre Moriya - esp writes: >> >> Robert Clark stands accused of saying: >> > What happens, my PC can see the exported portion of the FreeBSD file system, >> > but I can't map a drive, I get an RPC failure, 'Client credential too >> > weak'. > > When I am logged in as some user which is recognized > by the FreeBSD box that's ok (using net name * in the > DOS box), I am able to mount the exported directory !!! > > But when I am not logged in (ie, nobody - uid:-2 , gid:-2) > I can not mount the export directory. I see an error > in the DOS box - an NFS error indicating an 1007 error code... [I'm a long way behind on my -hackers mail. I'm up to Aug 16!] mountd is rejecting requests from uid -2 even with the -n switch. This behaviour started in FreeBSD 2.0, and seems totally bogus to me. I've removed this check (at home) with the enclosed patch, and my DOS PC can now mount NFS exported partitions without extra authorisation. I'm not sure whether to bug report this, or try to start some sort of discussion. So, hands up everyone (like me) who thinks it's a bug! Stephen McKay. diff -ru /cdrom/usr/src/sbin/mountd/mountd.c ./mountd.c --- /cdrom/usr/src/sbin/mountd/mountd.c Thu Jun 8 00:34:11 1995 +++ ./mountd.c Thu Aug 31 13:43:23 1995 @@ -352,7 +352,7 @@ syslog(LOG_ERR, "Can't send reply"); return; case RPCMNT_MOUNT: - if ((uid != 0 && root_only) || uid == -2) { + if (uid != 0 && root_only) { svcerr_weakauth(transp); return; } @@ -421,7 +421,7 @@ syslog(LOG_ERR, "Can't send reply"); return; case RPCMNT_UMOUNT: - if ((uid != 0 && root_only) || uid == -2) { + if (uid != 0 && root_only) { svcerr_weakauth(transp); return; } @@ -437,7 +437,7 @@ del_mlist(inet_ntoa(transp->xp_raddr.sin_addr), dirpath); return; case RPCMNT_UMNTALL: - if ((uid != 0 && root_only) || uid == -2) { + if (uid != 0 && root_only) { svcerr_weakauth(transp); return; } From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 21:20:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA21003 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:20:47 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA20997 ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:20:46 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA01827; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:20:44 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508310420.VAA01827@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: fdisk-disklabel part 2 To: gclarkii@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Gary Clark II) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199508310341.UAA19991@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Gary Clark II" at Aug 30, 95 08:41:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1277 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hello, > > Ok, I've not got a "hacked" sysinstall that only does fdisking, labeling > and newfsing. Right now I'm trying to track down where this sigfault > is coming from after labeling and before newfing. This is bloated > as I've not trimmed out anything besides what was required to get it > work. > > Point: Why does only create a 'e' partion when I've only got one > partion selected??? historical.... usually in these systems, a is root, b is swap and d is usr in the case of 386BSD, d was the whole disk.. but in a disk with no root or swap, (or user) it was still usual to not use a,b, or d unless you really had to.. if you had an 'a' usually that maent that it was an alternate root partition, (so the disk would be bootable on another machine, or by typing sd(1,a)/kernel no a part usually indicated that it wasn't bootable.. > > Expect an upload to freefall tonight. > > Gary > Disclaimer: This is a HACK! I've done just enough to get it to run...:) > > -- > Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service > gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information > FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in > ~pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/share/FAQ/Text/FreeBSD.FAQ > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 21:21:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA21044 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:21:15 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21030 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:21:02 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id GAA23506 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:20:54 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id GAA08237 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:20:54 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA04661 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:46:54 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508302246.AAA04661@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: pilot error on my part or feedback on the 2.1 snap To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:46:51 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199508302106.OAA19210@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Aug 30, 95 02:06:19 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 537 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > Which is why the DOS partitions should be called paritions, etc.. `parition' is actually an interesting name. :-] I'm not clearly minded towards partition. It's been long-standing tradition for unices to have their partitioning of the disk, as well as for DOSists. You have to suprise one of both groups, either the former DOS users, or the former Unix users. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 21:21:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA21056 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:21:17 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21031 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:21:04 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id GAA23510 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:20:55 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id GAA08238 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:20:55 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA04875 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:49:16 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508302249.AAA04875@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2.1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:49:15 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199508302122.PAA06756@clem.systemsix.com> from "Steve Passe" at Aug 30, 95 03:22:03 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 425 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Steve Passe wrote: > > > programs) would use them. Also I assumed XFree86 would use System V > > shared memory for the MIT-SHM extension. Are either of these assumptions > XFree86 does use the MIT-SHM extension. At most 0.5 well-known applications do actually use it. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 21:34:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA21380 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:34:22 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21371 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 21:34:13 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA06157; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:34:10 +1000 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:34:10 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508310434.OAA06157@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: moriya@ifi.unicamp.br, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: mountd -n hates 'nobody' (was: Re: Exporting a file system to a PC.) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >mountd is rejecting requests from uid -2 even with the -n switch. This >behaviour started in FreeBSD 2.0, and seems totally bogus to me. I've This may have something to do with (uid_t)(-2) = (unsigned long)(-2) = 0xfffffffe != (nobody = 65534) Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 22:05:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA21994 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:05:09 -0700 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA21987 for freebsd-hackers; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:05:08 -0700 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199508310505.WAA21987@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Subject: fdisk-disklabel part 3 To: freebsd-hackers Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:05:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 712 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, In my directory on freefall is diskset.tar.gz. This contains my hacked version. BUGS: Will not newfs! It will partion and label just fine. I tried this out on a drive I was not able to do so before. It gives a little blurb and then just comes back. Also, it leaves the tty in a noecho state. If someone can fix the newfs thing, I'll trim the bloat and fix the tty. NOTES: After this works, I'll add the help back in:) Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/share/FAQ/Text/FreeBSD.FAQ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 22:42:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA22885 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:42:54 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA22879 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:42:53 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA01965 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:42:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:42:52 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508310542.WAA01965@ref.tfs.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: kernel size Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've been playing around trying to make a bootable fixit disk today.. the over-all lesson is: we need to shrink our bloated stuff :) the -current tree can't build a 'boot' floppy at this time.. (as needed for the 'install') the kernel is too big with it's MFS built in, and you end up with a 'length error'.. text data bss dec hex 999424 1159168 75572 2234164 221734 MFSKERNEL erf# bc bc 1.02 (Mar 3, 92) Copyright (C) 1991, 1992 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. For details type `warranty'. 999424+1159168 2158592 2*1024*1024 2097152 so we see we can't fit into the 2MB we need, to boot on a 4MB machine.. (dang!) I guess we can still compress the binaries in the mfs filesystem which would leave them still compressed when the kernel is decompressed, but that would possibly mean we would use more memory as processes couldn't share pages.. does anyone have any ideas about what we can do to shrink our product? the smallest kernel I could make that was of any use was about 500K... the GENERIC 386BSD 0.0 kernel was about that big :) I think that inevitably we are going to have to go back to a 2 floppy boot.. the more device drivers we have the harder it's going to be to fit them in.. I think we will have a "I'll boot to MFS" floppy, and then we may need another floppy with all the loadable modules.. "place the 'drivers' floppy in A:" while we load each driver in turn and ask it to see if it's thing is there.. I'm just thinking about which way we are going to have to go.. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Aug 30 23:42:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA25969 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 23:42:52 -0700 Received: from nic.cerf.net (nic.cerf.net [192.102.249.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA25962 ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 23:42:50 -0700 Received: (from jrs@localhost) by nic.cerf.net (8.6.10/8.6.9) id XAA07642; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 23:42:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 23:42:52 -0700 (PDT) From: jrs To: hackers@freebsd.org, bugs@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Strange behavior of uha0 device in config. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I recently (this week) purchased FreeBSD Release 2.0.5 through Walnut Creek. I am having a problem getting the default kernel to recognize my SCSI controller. The sequence is this: 1. Make the boot floppy. 2. Boot the floppy and enter '-c' for config. 3. Device uha0 (UltraStore 34F localbus) defaults to port 0x330. 4. Mine is set to port 0x230. 5. I use the command 'port uha0 0x230' to reset the port. 6. Issue the command 'probe uha0' and comes back with good status. 7. Issue the 'ls' command and device uha0 shows ok. 8. Any further activity on that device causes the device to change to uha1 with the error message device number too high. This can be verified by simply issuing a second 'probe uha0' command. This should not happen. Device uha0 should now respond on port 0x230 and not turn into device uha1. And yes, because of another hardware conflict, I need to have the UltraStore on port 0x230. Thank you, Jim Stutt "Your enemy is never a villian in his own eyes. Keep this in mind; it may offer a way to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate -- and quickly." -- LL From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 00:21:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA26628 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:21:48 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA26620 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:21:47 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id CAA06311; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 02:20:22 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199508310720.CAA06311@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 02:20:22 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9508302210.AA05015@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Aug 30, 95 05:10:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I would gladly trade that very minor bit of information in exchange for the > > ability to name 32 serial ports in an easy-to-remember-and-translate > > fashion. > > Yah. :-) > > "Um. Ok, if I was on ttydf, I should really go to ttye0, but then what do I > > do with cuaaf, go to cuab0?" > > And why stop at "f" here anyway? Um, physical->logical mappings? Most cards tend to end on bit boundaries. (4, 8, 16 port) And hex isn't quite as bad as arbitrary-alphanumeric-scheme when trying to translate in your head. As it is I find it rather disconcerting that if I have a BB2016 in addition to the 4 internal serial ports, the BB ports are "sio4-19" and the tty names are correspondingly screwed. IMHO: A "better" solution might label a "controller" channel and a port on the controller: tty00-03 = com1-4 (tty04-0? for other non-multiport solutions) tty10-13 = AST 4 port card (first multiport controller, 4 ports) tty20-2f = BB2016 16 port card (second multiport controller) tty30-3f = 2nd BB2016 tty40-47 = generic 8 port card tty50-5v = 32 port Wonder Card Etc., which might remind one of how SunOS and other BSD UNIX operating systems often did things. The current system is quite flexible and I *really* like that, but it is so difficult to explain to people how to configure their multiport cards. How this is implemented at the minor number level and in the kernel config file is an interesting exercise. > > Is there anyone else besides me who is looking at putting lots of serial > > ports on a BSD box, by the way? > > Funny you should mention that. I'm trying to move our current modems (on three > boxes running two versions of System V) to a FreeBSD box. Any luck? :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 00:27:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA26887 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:27:38 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA26881 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:27:37 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id CAA06335; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 02:23:37 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199508310723.CAA06335@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 02:23:37 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com In-Reply-To: <199508302331.JAA27466@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 31, 95 09:31:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >"Um. Ok, if I was on ttydf, I should really go to ttye0, but then what do I > >do with cuaaf, go to cuab0?" > > I have a cyclades card on cuac[g-h] for testing ([0-f] are unused). It's > confusing. > > Hex numbering would confuse people who think in hex as badly as we do in > base 36 :-). > > This problem should have been fixed for ptys long ago. I guess it less > noticeable for ptys because there is no hardware to worry about. So does anybody have any brilliant ideas? I think this raises another point: other serial drivers are using other letter prefixes (I think?) already... ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 00:32:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA27039 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:32:11 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA27032 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:32:09 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA10459; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:31:59 -0700 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:31:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199508310731.AAA10459@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <7696.809829463@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * I have a proposal. I'll keep working on the system I want to ship, * here in my corner with no serious pressure (except for what I apply to * myself). If the release date is actually imminent (and it's not at * the moment, David's not even done merging bug fixes yet) and I've * still not got something better than what we have now, then I'll do * what I suggested; I'll just go with sysinstall from 2.1.0-950726-SNAP * and be done with it for 2.1. No delays from me, no shifts in * paradigm, just the same old thing you all saw from the last SNAP. * I'll be sad, but I know that the SNAP worked for as many people (if * not more) than 2.0.5, so we'll be no WORSE off at least. Ok Jordan, go ahead and play with sysinstall. Lock yourself up in a room with no windows (Justin, can you make sure the lock is secure?) and don't come out until you're done. :) Just kidding, but I think sysinstall is important enough to merit that kind of treatment. If it doesn't install, all the new features and "stability" and 15 devices for WIDE controllers mean nothing. So why don't we let Jordan go start playing with it RIGHT NOW instead of, say, right before ALPHA (or was it between ALPHA and BETA :) like last time? Since David isn't done with the main source tree anyway, I think he has plenty of time to screw up and still make it work. :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 00:44:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA27305 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:44:02 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA27299 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 00:43:50 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA16903; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:43:15 +0800 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:43:14 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Mike Pritchard cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) In-Reply-To: <199508291802.NAA02791@mpp.minn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Mike Pritchard wrote: > > In the past I've been involved in some projects where pid collisions > due to pid wrap was a problem. Oh hmmmm, wow... doesn't FreeBSD have a global process limit of some sort? I know I've seen "No more processes" on BSD/OS and SunOS systems, even though the user maxproc limit had not been reached. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 03:23:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA01668 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:23:02 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA01654 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:22:55 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA03779 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:22:47 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA10324 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:22:46 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA06645 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:47:09 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508310547.HAA06645@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:47:08 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508310020.RAA10012@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 30, 95 05:20:20 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 301 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > Stop buying SeaCRATES... :-) :-) :-). I've seen too many dead disks of too many vendors to believe this tale any longer. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 03:23:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA01684 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:23:06 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA01660 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:22:57 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA03759 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:22:18 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA10320 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:22:17 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA06543 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:39:39 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508310539.HAA06543@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:39:38 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508310204.IAA11272@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Aug 31, 95 08:04:49 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 601 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Serge A. Babkin wrote: > > Logging on cuaXX may be useful when connecting a local terminal by a cable > with broken null-modem connection (many of them contain no wire from DTR > to DCD). This is not the intented way. The intented way is using ttyd0 and setting it to CLOCAL (i.e., no modem control, thus no carrier detect). Since our getty is very old, you cannot define this in gettydefs, but you can use the lock-style devices and /etc/rc.serial. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 03:32:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA02081 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:32:56 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02075 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:32:46 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA10839; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:32:06 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508311032.DAA10839@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <7762.809830060@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 30, 95 05:47:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1935 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I have to side with rod on this... > > dding a crucially missing item in sysinstall is ok.. > > (could be considered a bugfix) > > rewriting it is a bad idea.. > > I'm not re-writing it so much as "reshuffling" it so that people have > the option of doing various things "atomically" rather than in one > unbreakable sequence. It will also let you skip all the > fdisk/disklabel questions and just figure out (very conservative!) > defaults on its own in "express" mode, helping those who were > terminally confused by the previous "you must understand slices or > die!" system. I would call that a ``new feature''. Oh, and what is the difference between ``reshuffling'' and ``rewritting'', symantics of expression does not change the fact the bits are going to be changed considerably by these changes. > > bringing in a new editor is a bad idea, (unless the old one is still there) > > People kinda missed the point of that one. Rather than put vi on the > boot floppy, where it only eats tons-o-space and is used once to toss > the unsuspecting user into an empty /etc/exports file (that was real > bright, that one!), I was going to put ee on there to take up far less > space and also give the user some idea as to how to USE the damn > editor. vi itself hasn't gone anywhere, it's just not being > [mis]tasked for this purpose.. I think you missed Julians point. If you remove vi from the floppy, and but ee in it's place, and ee is full of bugs, vi won't be there that is of known quantity. Thus ``new editor with no old one incase the new one fails''. Again, ``ee'' is a new feature. It was imported to the tree very recently, has already had several bug fix commits, and I just can't buy that in 3 days it will be up to ``production release'' snuff. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 03:47:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA02320 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:47:07 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02311 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:47:04 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA10874; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:45:19 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508311045.DAA10874@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM (Pete Delaney) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 03:45:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <9508310047.AA04493@kesa26.Kesa.COM> from "Pete Delaney" at Aug 30, 95 05:47:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1760 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > Stop buying SeaCRATES... :-) :-) :-). > > At Auspex their Disk Drive people found the SeaCRATE 4GB Hawk to be > more relialiable that the Micropolus 4GB drive. I believe here at > Kesa they also had to return a 4BG Micropolus drive. Perhaps the > SeaCRATE drives made in Singapore are ok. The 4GB Hawk drive is the only Segate drive that Accurate Automation will ship from Segate at this time. Unless my customer exerts a bit of pressure to have me special order a specific drive that they desire. I have seen 1 dead Hawk (Hi Jim!) that occured during transit via 2nd day air, and from the failure symptoms it sounds as if the hawk-4 may have a broken head locking mechansism, or one that is easily unlatched by shipping shock :-(. The drive had been through a 50+ hour burn in cycle with no problems, but was DOA at the customers sight with repeative bad sectors spaced what looked to be 1 cylinder apart (hard to tell on ZBR drives), hard for the customer to provide this data back to me. This is also the first time ever that Segate has been qualified to supply drives for Auspex, something they have wanted to do for a very long time. Micropolis has been the drive supplier for Auspex servers since day 1, this is a good testimonial on Micropolis's ability to deliver good drive models over many years. And sure, every one comes out with a lemon once in a while (and the MC3243 is FAR from a lemon, also your not comparing apples to apples. The 4G micropolis drive that did not meet auspexes requirements is a 7200rpm drive, the Hawk-4 that is being used is a 5400RPM drive). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 04:03:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA02737 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:03:34 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA02731 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:03:31 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA10906; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:01:14 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508311101.EAA10906@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: S.O.S -2.1Stable and ASUSP54TP4 To: pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM (Pete Delaney) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net, pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM In-Reply-To: <9508310150.AA04607@kesa26.Kesa.COM> from "Pete Delaney" at Aug 30, 95 06:50:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2528 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > [Hummm.. just noted pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM is in the cc: of this message, well, if you get this could you please go hunt this down and have it fixed, 2 days of these in my syslog are driving me NUTS: Aug 31 03:41:35 gndrsh sendmail[10715]: CAA10715: SYSERR(root): collect: read timeout on connection from [192.88.116.15], from= ] > Julian: > > > since Seagate bought all those other places, > > and they have several design/build groups you have to be sure which group > > the drive came from.. > > > > I BELIEVE that drives that come from what WAS the CDC disk section > > (did that go via Imprimis?) are ok.. > > Nice to know the CDC drives are ok; Thanks. CDC was a well known world class drive manufacture before the aquisition by Seagate, they still operated as a division for a long long time. My understanding is that this has now been totally obsorbed into the company and is no longer a seperate division. > > HAWK sounds like it should come from that division.. > > they always liked bird names.. > > (e.g the 10MB HAWK drive, the 90MB Phoenix, etc...) > > (never saw a VULTURE drive but they'd have been a good one to > > sell to government ) > > Perhaps they are desiged in Phoenix and manufactored in Singapore. > I think Quantum is moving some of it's manufactoring to Singapore. Quantum has been manufacturing off shore for some time, and with the aquisition of DEC's hard drive division a lot of drives are now coming out of the DEC Mylasia plant. > The 4GB HAWK is very similar to the 4GB Barracuda. The HAWK is made > in Singapore and I believe the Barracuda is also. I've never thought > of Seagate as a good manufactor, I was surprised to hear that the > 4GB Barracuda was a good drive. After I bought a 4GB HAWK the guys > at Auspex thought it was a better choice that the 4GB Micropolus. > The only difference that I know of between the two drives is that > the 4GB Barracuda has a slightly faster access time; 9ms as I recall. Hawk is a 5400RPM class drive, Barracuda is a 7200RPM class drive. BIG difference! > Up to now I've had no problems with the 4GB Hawk, Time will tell. > It runs cool enough that you don't even need a fan in the SPARCStation-1 > (or -2) pizza box. The ``runs cool'' is due to the fact that it is not a 7200RPM screamer :-), though it has data transfer rates almost as good as them. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 04:14:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA02966 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:14:25 -0700 Received: from kesa26.Kesa.COM ([192.88.116.15]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA02960 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:14:24 -0700 Received: by kesa26.Kesa.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA05592; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:00:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:00:52 -0700 From: pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM (Pete Delaney) Message-Id: <9508311100.AA05592@kesa26.Kesa.COM> To: pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: 4GB Drives Cc: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk So Rodney, which 4 GB Drive would you buy? -pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 04:37:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA03220 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:37:00 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA03214 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:36:56 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA10989; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:36:21 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508311136.EAA10989@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508310332.VAA26359@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Aug 30, 95 09:32:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 6738 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't believe I'm actually defending Jordan against Rod, since most of > the time I agree with Rod but anything is possible I guess. As they say ``sh*t happens'' :-) > [ sysinstall changes ] > > > You have now promised a boat load of ``new'' features and plan to implement > > them in 2.1 is something that the decision was already made and _AGREED_ > > to. > > Actually, I know at least some of the promised changes are already in > the code. I was using -stable for building the install disk for the > Thinkpad, and it is definitely different from the install I just did > from the 2.0.5 CD. I have no problem with the changes that have already gone in, most of that was done 2 months ago!!! It has been in a snap, it is of known quantity! Heck, a lot of it was done as ``2.0.6'' 3 months ago! > > b) ee is new green code, not sutible for production release, it's been > > in the tree 24 hours and has had a rash of commits, not a good > > canidate for release, lickely to put egg on our face. > > Rash of commits == 2 commits. One is to fix 8-bit mode by Andrey, the > other is to add new languages to the code. Neither of the commits were > bug fixes, and IF he would have committed the code with the new features > in place it would have completely screwed up any new imports of the code > from the original tree later. I haven't supped in 48 hours, so I can't check rlogs, but I seem to recall 4 commits. 4 commits in < 24 hours is a dc/dt rate unacceptable for code about to go into a production release. It has all of 2 days in the tree and will have less than 5 by the time the beta rolls. I will state one more time, code in the tree for less than 1 or 2 weeks should _NEVER_ be pulled into use in a release of software, we just don't have enough test time on it! > > c) Major changes to sysinstall are major changes to code, to very > > critical code IMHO. Sysinstall as it stands right now is a very > > known quantity, yes it has some bugs, yes it is missing some features, > > but I dare say trying to cram what should be a minimum 30 day developement > > effort into 3 days and doing it the 3 days before the release is the > > best way I know to create a systinstall full of bugs. > > See above. I am not objecting to all changes to sysinstall!! I am objecting to the fact Jordan desires to, (cant find his word for it right now), hack it to bits, as self desriben ``major work in the next 3 days'', that sudenly became ``should have it all working by 2 weeks top''. I am sorry, I have been around this for the whole 3 years, if he said 3 days to get it in, 2 weeks to getting it working, it REALLY means we will have it STABLE in 2 months! [Rod ceffecient of software developement estimates to reality is a 4.2 factor, this has been proven to be spot on by 4 releases of FreeBSD in actual vs intial promissed release dates] > > You had 2 months of delay to go write a better sysinstall, why is it coming > > in 3 days before release? You should have no special treatment here, > > That's where I think you are wrong Rod. He *does* have special > treatment to do anything he likes as one of the releas engineers. If he > hoses up the entire release, it's his butt hanging out in the wind. That changed when it went from ``release engineer'' to ``release team'', it is now (or was until 24 hours ago) 3 butts on the line, one of them being mine. > > > Joe blow walked up to any release team person right now and said, hey, > > that whizzy wig woggler devfs code is neato nifty, would you pull it into > > 2.1 we would all tell him to go jump off a cliff as it is far to green. > > True, but because the release engineer(s) are the FreeBSD gods, they can > do anything they wish. If it breaks the tree, and wipes out hard-disks > of all the machines it touches, *they* must fix the code and spend the > long hours it takes to fix the tree and calm the users down. I disagree with that statement that they are the gods, and can do anything they wish, and perhaps it should be rewritten so that we have a ``release'' team and a ``QA'' team. QA has always been the ``gods'' about issues like this :-) > It's all nice and good to have guidelines for doing things, but when > push comes to shove the rel.eng. has FINAL say on everything that goes ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Revised at 2.1 branch to say ``The release engineering team has FINAL say'', and per private agreements if ``any one of the release team has doubts about new code coming in it should be closly examined by formal code review before it does come in''. > in the the tree. No ifs, ands, or butts get in the way. (Note the > intentional misspelling on the last one for a lame attempt at humor). :-) > > If Jordan/David breaks the release tree, it is their responsibility to Jordan/David/Rod. > clean it up. If the FreeBSD 2.1 release sucks the big one, then it > sucks the big one. Hollering at them isn't going to change their mind > about what they are doing. We've all been doing this long enough to > know the consequences of bad decisions. >From Jordans already posted comprimise, it has effected his decission process, and he is willing to take what I would consider the better road and go roll things as they are (sysinstall 2.1-stable is a major improvement over 2.0.5R, not the all singing all dancing thing it is desired to be, but quite usable) > Finally, what is coming up is *NOT* the 2.1 release, but a 2.1-SNAP. > I'd rather see the code in the tree so it can be tested in the SNAP for > a longer period of time than to see if take 30 more days to get in and > have a crappy install for 2.1. The code should have been in the tree within 14 days of branching, then we would be on schedule. 2 months late, is 2 months late, things that are late get left out of releases, plain and simple. Exceptions for release engineers on this rule is simply bogus! > > 'Nuff said, I wish.. but I've been trying to pound some common sense into the minds of all of FreeBSD about what you do and don't do in a release engineering branch of a tree. It is starting to sink in, but it still has a long way to go. If people want to see the stability that was in 1.1.5.1 (a fluke chance of luck given the conditions and release methology used), and the stability that is in some commercial software it means playing by the big boy rules, and doing release engineering as it is meant to be done (please read /usr/share/doc/releng.ascii, and once you have read that a few good books on software QA and testing). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 04:52:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA03634 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:52:26 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA03628 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:52:24 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA11028; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:51:53 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508311151.EAA11028@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508310358.UAA20539@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Aug 30, 95 08:58:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4219 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > (Jordan said:) > >Funny. Someone, who's name I'll refrain from mentioning here, was > >just musing to me the other day that maybe we should just SKIP 2.1 and > >go to 2.2.. :-) > > That was me. I was joking of course, but there was a small element of > truth. You even mentioned it to me on the phone the other night :-). > (Nate said:) > >clean it up. If the FreeBSD 2.1 release sucks the big one, then it > >sucks the big one. Hollering at them isn't going to change their mind > >about what they are doing. We've all been doing this long enough to > >know the consequences of bad decisions. > > > >Finally, what is coming up is *NOT* the 2.1 release, but a 2.1-SNAP. > >I'd rather see the code in the tree so it can be tested in the SNAP for > >a longer period of time than to see if take 30 more days to get in and > >have a crappy install for 2.1. > > Yes, and I apologize for the 2.1 tree brokeness that Rod has complained > about. This is the product of a large amount of effort to get all the changes > in before the snapshot. It's very important that as many changes as possible > that we want to be in the release be in the next snapshot. We are trying to > get this release out the door, and dribbling in the changes will only delay > it by months more. And these are changes for 96% of the cases that have been in -current for > 2 weeks, and _are_ bug fixes, not new code. I know of 1 ``new'' binary coming in, and that in ndc from the bind distribution, which was really part of the upgrade/bugfix for named/bind. I know this to be the only one as David failed to do the cvs tag operations to bring it over and I am about to go do them. Other than that he has been commiting bug fix deltas to existing code. > ...and I'm still not done yet. I have to finish up the userland and then > return to merging kernel stuff. There are a pile of important fixes in > -current that must be in the release, and I haven't hardly touched the 2.1 > kernel yet. :-) > Anyway, I have too much to do and no time to argue about this. I intend to > strike a balance between stability, features, and release schedule. The > emphasis will be on stability, followed by release schedule, and features > last. I will make an effort to bring in improvements (fixes or features) if I > think they would make 2.1 a better release...so to those who want 2.1 to be a > release with "meat", don't worry, it'll will be plenty "meaty". :-) And he has conferred with the other release team members on bringing major chunks of meat over before doing so. He talked to me about sendmail and bind before that was done, as he was unclear on the status of them and if he should bring those changes over. This is operating as a team, with at least a sanity check before code drops into the release branch. This is how release team work should be occuring. This is the first time in the history of FreeBSD that sanity checks are being done on code going into a release. I would hate to see this fall apart due to allowing Jordan to run rampent in the release branch and add new tools, and new functionality that David and myself have been so carefull about watching out for. David did one hell of a lot of work to bring in the changes he did, that means he looked at and evaluated each one before doing so, and at least let the bits sit and cure for a few weeks in -current before just splatting them into the release. I am affraid a ``reworking'' of sysinstall would not benifit from such a formal review, and now is not the time to start looking at doing one anyway as the code has not rippened in any form. Had Jordan commited this weeks ago into stable I would not have batted an eye. But coming out in 1 mail message and saying that a) we are going to roll beta in 3 or 4 days, and b) I have major changes to sysinstall before we roll beta makes my stomach CHURN and my head POUND at the idea of it. I can state rather plainly, that if this does occur it _WILL_ be additional delay in the snap shot, and additional delay in the release cycle. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 05:57:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA04584 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:57:50 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA04578 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:57:48 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA11224; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:57:14 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508311257.FAA11224@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM (Pete Delaney) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <9508311100.AA05592@kesa26.Kesa.COM> from "Pete Delaney" at Aug 31, 95 04:00:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3270 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > So Rodney, which 4 GB Drive would you buy? Today, if you ordered a 4G drive from me I would first try to talk you into 2 2.2G drives to load balance if this was a single disk for a single machine: XX. TMG QTM11265 Quantum, Capella 2.2GB, 3.5"x1", 5400RPM, 8.5MS $ 800.00 XX. TMG QTM11265 Quantum, Capella 2.2GB, 3.5"x1", 5400RPM, 8.5MS $ 800.00 If you already had disk space, or where looking for multiple 4G drives to load balance your news spool on I would tell you: XX. TMG SG15230N Seagate 4.3G, 3.5"xHH, SCSI-II, 5400RPM, 9mS $1232.00 Yes, that is correct, Accurate Automation is actually _RECOMMENDING_ a SeaCRATE drive. But only this ONE model at a single point on the size curve. If you must have speed (and you are going to bleed to get it) I would recommend: XX. BAS HDMC3243W Micropolis MC3243W 4.23G 3.5"xHH 7200RPM 8.5mS $1495.00 [Also avaliable in non-wide, just not on my quote clip cheat sheet :-)] This is a little public presentation of what seperates me from the others in this market. When systems are requested for quotation from me I see things like ``4G disk''. Well, that one item becomes a whole pile of questions about just what you need 4G for, and what performance levels you are looking for. As you can see I can tune that 4G to fit a wide range of price/performance points. I am not the clone shop that has 1 solution for all problems, I have N configurations to fit the M problems, all machines are custom quoted based upon rather length email iterations in most cases. Just ask any of my customers, it kinda shocks a few of them when there request for quotation comes back with a 2 page email asking all sorts of details about what it is they are doing with that 8G of disk, and ``Penitum'' with an ethernet and SVGA. In the news server class of machines I have 3 proposals before me right now, they all look just a little different in disk configurations due to just how these new servers are going to be used to distribute news. Some are what I would call and endpoint news server, like I would install here at the end of a T-1 to provide news service for a reasonbale size company, others are central servers that will have T-1 pipes to the internet and downline feed news to other sites via T-1 and below bandwidths, these go into your typical mom and pop ISP. The third class is the news ultra server class clusters with above T-1 bandwidth (upto DS-3), that distribute news to whole regions, these have some rather high performance disk system reqirements as well as some expensive network gear and often require multiple machines to provide the horse power (thus the term ``cluster''). Now, can you all leave me alone for 30 days so I can go get the stripes working, I have small bottleneck that needs fixed :-):-):-) And can anyone tell me what the mean and standard deviation of an I/O request to an aic7870 is before it hits the drive given 0 scsi bus contention? This seems to greatly effect rotation offset on stripe sets when pushed to the limits of data coming under the head just after the I/O hits the drive. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 06:11:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA04852 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:11:52 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA04842 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:11:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA09645; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:57:13 -0700 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kernel size In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:42:52 PDT." <199508310542.WAA01965@ref.tfs.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:57:13 -0700 Message-ID: <9643.809873833@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've been playing around trying to make a bootable fixit disk today.. > the over-all lesson is: > we need to shrink our bloated stuff :) > the -current tree can't build a 'boot' floppy at this time.. Well, we can't build a fixit floppy no since nobody has gone in and tried to reasonably trim down the list of things jammed into fixit. If you look at how boot.flp is built and work backward, you should be able to make a fixit floppy again and we've been meaning to do it it's just low-prio. > I guess we can still compress the binaries in the mfs filesystem > which would leave them still compressed when the kernel is decompressed, Already done! The crunched binary is, in turn, compressed. > I think that inevitably we are going to have to go back to a 2 floppy boot.. > the more device drivers we have the harder it's going to be to fit them in.. > I think we will have a "I'll boot to MFS" floppy, and then we may need > another floppy with all the loadable modules.. > "place the 'drivers' floppy in A:" I think this is also probably inevitable, I've just been putting off the work of ripping up release/Makefile again until I've finished my changes for making the one-boot-floppy-per-language happen. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 06:54:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA05763 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:54:53 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA05756 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:54:51 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA11381; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:49:24 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508311349.GAA11381@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: kernel size To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9643.809873833@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 31, 95 05:57:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2470 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I've been playing around trying to make a bootable fixit disk today.. > > the over-all lesson is: > > we need to shrink our bloated stuff :) > > the -current tree can't build a 'boot' floppy at this time.. > > Well, we can't build a fixit floppy no since nobody has gone in and > tried to reasonably trim down the list of things jammed into fixit. > If you look at how boot.flp is built and work backward, you should > be able to make a fixit floppy again and we've been meaning to do it > it's just low-prio. I would say this should not be low-prior, it is an often requested item, and has been missing for 2 releases, and is about to go missing for 3, I would say we need a fixit more than we needed ee :-). If you so desire I may find it in my heart to hack my 2 floppy boot set into a more generic set of floppies, upgrade the binaries to 2.1-stable (2.0 kernel, boot code and binaries work just fine for my mode of installation since my ``sysinstall'' is dd, fdisk -u, disklabel -R and restore -f via NFS) and upload them some place. I will not go to the work of making the tree build these things, they are hand crafted and involve sticking the ``insert root floppy'' code back in the boot blocks (though I think a boot -a should handle that now). > > I guess we can still compress the binaries in the mfs filesystem > > which would leave them still compressed when the kernel is decompressed, > > Already done! The crunched binary is, in turn, compressed. :-), you gota do what you gota do to get this on a floppy! > > I think that inevitably we are going to have to go back to a 2 floppy boot.. > > the more device drivers we have the harder it's going to be to fit them in.. > > I think we will have a "I'll boot to MFS" floppy, and then we may need > > another floppy with all the loadable modules.. > > "place the 'drivers' floppy in A:" > > I think this is also probably inevitable, I've just been putting off > the work of ripping up release/Makefile again until I've finished my > changes for making the one-boot-floppy-per-language happen. Can some one go try a ``boot -a'' with a 2.1-stable (last snap) floppy and see if you can change from the kernel floppy to the root floppy using this? I don't have one handy just now :-(. All my boot code on floppies is still 2.0R :-( :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 06:57:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA05849 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:57:33 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA05842 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:57:32 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA16134 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:03:40 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199508311403.KAA16134@ns1.win.net> Subject: re: 4GB Drives To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:03:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 355 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > So Rodney, which 4 GB Drive would you buy? > Keep in mind also, these guys get HOT! I've got a couple of pentium cpu fans hideously pasted on to our 4 gig's. They are also sitting inside a mondo cabinet with 3 main fans. This seems to make things work but I am starting to think I need one more fan :-) Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 06:59:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA05912 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:59:21 -0700 Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA05905 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:59:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA07635 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:09:37 -0400 Message-Id: <199508311409.KAA07635@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Test/Release cycle. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:09:37 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Something that bothers me is the (to me at least) unbelivably short 12 day Test/release time for 2.0.5. The Alpha was released and 12 days later 2.0.5 was released. I wonder if I am alone in thinking that that is *way* too short of a time? I wonder if the release team tends to get a bad case of release itis? It seems to me like 30 days would be a more reasonable period, and if substantial problems show up, there should be another period with another release. After all, almost *any* bug found in a pre-release kit should be considered serious. Almost all (substantial) bugs should have been removed by that time. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 07:24:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA06519 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:24:38 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA06513 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:24:36 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id JAA28099; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:24:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:24:22 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199508311424.JAA28099@plains.nodak.edu> To: gurney_j@efn.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: problems with programs being swaped out!! Content-Length: 2302 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > right now I am having a regular problem with programs getting swapped out > but never getting back in... right now Netscape just died on me wand it > has the ps flags of: IW Right now netscape just stop responding... I > have a 486/33DX (running at 40mhz), w/ 8megs ram and swap: in pre 4.4 days, BSD VM copied the entire text to backstore and user and sbrk pages were shoved into backstore when needed and they stayed there until the program ended. since 386BSD days, it is normal operation for single page put into backstored or a entire process is swap put into backstore, to remains in backstore until the process died. The backstore acts like a cache. Back in late 386BSD or early FreeBSD, I modified the VM code to do exactly like you wished happened, when a page(s) is brought back into RAM, the page is removed from backstore. I kept counters to count the pages in/out of backstore and the number of pages that were/were not modified before being put on backstore after being brought back in. By the way, re-writes to backstore without modification of the page was rare, so my changes did not introduce much new overhead. At the time the disks and RAM were smaller, swap backstore space was a premium. Logic says that a swapping machine most like will not choose the same file to push out in low memory conditions and this could lead to then common "full VM lockup error". My change did help significantly my lowly 25 MHz 386 with 8 MB RAM and 80 MB running X. Just after my changes, the VM was rewritten. I am under the impression (****** DISCLAIMER -- I HAVE NOT HAD TIME TO STUDY THE VM FOR SOME TIME, I COULD BE MISTAKEN *****) that larger chunks of backstore are read into the system to improve speed. At times, some pages are discarded which is okay because they are on the backstore. I would like to take the time to restudy the VM, count the cost of putting that code back in the VM, and also put look at a features for a laptop to automatically power down without losing currently running processes. --mark [reply almost as long as a Terry reply :), but then I did not go into the plans of replacing the EBUSY mistake that is in our VM (yep, I was partly to blame that it is there, but I have been converted), but say boo and it can start a 30-40 line sermonette] From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 08:15:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA07495 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:15:39 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA07148 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:56:07 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA11873 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:46:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA10052; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:27:01 -0700 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 04:36:20 PDT." <199508311136.EAA10989@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:27:00 -0700 Message-ID: <10050.809879220@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I wish.. but I've been trying to pound some common sense into the minds > of all of FreeBSD about what you do and don't do in a release engineering > branch of a tree. It is starting to sink in, but it still has a long > way to go. Well, I think this bears further investigation later, but I only have this to say: If Rod or anyone else wants to pound sense into the project WRT scheduling and such, the time to do so is NOT 2 WEEKS BEFORE RELEASE! At that point, if we're still squabbling about what goes in then the battle is already lost and you're the captain at the stern of a ship going down, shouting rudder orders as the foredeck goes under and looking like a complete idiot. This is not effective management. If Rod or anyone else REALLY, TRULY and HONESTLY wishes to effect the release schedules then the time to start rallying the troops and shouting orders was 3 months in the past, not NOW! I'm perfectly serious. A release isn't about 4 months of sort of muddling along like two laconic farmers in a field discussing the weather ("Ho hum. We have a release coming soon, don't we?" [long pause] "Yup" [long pause] "Gonna be a big one" [long pause] "Yup") followed by 3 frenzied weeks of activity as everyone rushes around and Rod climbs the local water tower with his scoped Mannlicher-Carinno to take pot shots at anyone not rushing frantically in exactly the right direction. This is not project management and anything Rod says to the contrary here is, I hate to say it, complete fertilizer. He's trying to look effective by running around slamming doors and making a lot of noise in the barn about the proper raising of horses, but all the horses already escaped 3 months ago and are well into the next county by now. This is just not how it's done and it's utterly ridiculous to pretend that it is or that we can salvage things by acting like a release team at the very last minute. I'm reminded of a couple of 5 year old girls covered in lipstick and mom's jewlery, pretending to be grown-up in front of the mirror. We can pretend, but that doesn't make it so. Yes, we started 2.1 with the best of intentions. We had meetings, we discussed features, we even tried to lock down a tree in preparation. But we still missed that most fundamental ingredient, the lack of which rendered the rest entirely moot: CONSISTENT FOCUS. What do I mean by that? I mean an awareness *all through* the release cycle of just what we were doing to get to the release day. We (and I do include myself) instead spent the time muddling around with many different things, got facinated by the occasional cool feature in -current and dropped everything to go look at it or occasionally just got bogged down in just the most ridiculous political wrangling over some petty issue and wiped out everyone's productivity for weeks at a time. Now we have a release due very shortly and the usual panic reaction has set in. I have been with this project for 4 major releases now, actively involved in at least 2 of them, and I see this as a consistent pattern. A couple of weeks of rest following the previous release, 6 months of general dozing and puttering around with bursts of intense effort and then a final month where everyone freaks out when they wake from their Rip Van Winkel sleep and say "MY GOD! It's been 6 months since the last release! We need to do another one RIGHT NOW!!" It doesn't matter if we had regular meetings every month for the previous 5 months and in every meeting said "everyone remembers the release coming up in {5,4,3,2,1} months time, right? RIGHT?" ([chorus] "Yes yes! We're not stupid! We're on it!") We still don't ACT any differently! We leave the meeting and it's really as if it never happened. This leads me to pose two alternatives, and frankly I'm still not sure which one is "most correct" though my preference is pretty plain: 1. We start actually operating like a real team inside a real company where tangible progress towards each goal is seriously measured at each milestone point by management types who make it their sole purpose in life to worry about such things. Various heads also roll if they've been day dreaming or absent at any point in the project, not just at the very end when it's time to punish the innocent and praise the guilty because everything has gone wrong. In a "real team" you need to sit down with your manager every week while he goes over your little goal chart to see what your team has missed and what it's made, and if it's missed lots of stuff you get the whole "I'm very disappointed" number and have to go back to your team feeling like shit and upset that though it really wasn't your team's fault that their development machines were scrambled by the EMP from that little nuclear accident they had at the Navy base 3 miles away, your boss is right - you didn't make the goals and now the whole project timeline is going to suffer. Only with this kind of committed, constant buy-in to the overall project timeline do the really big projects succeed in being "commercial quality." 2. We realize that model #1 isn't very much fun and the reason they generally paid us so much to be principle engineers at large companies (my own background) was mainly because it's a PAIN to be held so accountable for one's actions 40 or more hours out of every week. It might, at times, feel kinda nice to be running the team and seeing your ideas slowly translated into reality, but it's still nothing more than a whole heap of work and late nights at your desk filling out progress reports so that your boss can do HIS job the following morning. Given that reality, we don't try to pretend that we're anything like that and instead just try to RELAX a little and enjoy some of the benefits of not being such a team. We also fully understand that "worry" is not transferable or commutative and just because you're jumping out of your shoes with concern, you can't transfer it to someone else. You can do that in a real company because somebody, somewhere is generally being paid to take on some of your worries ("HR! My paycheck is late! PAY ME NOW BEFORE I STARVE!!") but not here. Just because David, Rod or I worry about our release schedule doesn't give us the right to try and transfer some of that worry onto others and I'd say a great majority of our problems have come out of such misapprehensions that we could. That needs to change, and if we take this option then we need to start treating each other more like friends and less like each other's managers. Frankly, I don't think that model #1 is going to work, nor is the "punishment cycle" that Rod likes to indulge in around this time any help in even approximating it. The problems aren't in the release phase, they're well before it and the only way I could guarantee that we didn't arrive at this predicament would be to start playing the manager in #1 and I don't think that any of us would like that very much, me least of all. We say this a lot, but perhaps we should repeat it more often: We're doing this for fun. We can take it very seriously, but we're still not a team of highly paid engineers working inside of Microsoft or IBM, we're a volunteer project. If we try to warp this group into a defacto engineering team through intimidation or guilt-tripping then this is not going to be anything but a very UNHAPPY group of volunteers and we'll have killed the golden goose in an attempt to get all the eggs out at once. I vote for option #2. Let us treat this project seriously and try to make a success of it, but let us also not totally lose our perspective in the process. In the typical definition of such things, I am not a manager, you are not a team, this is not a project. We are a group of hobbiests that have SOME of the characteristics of all of the above, but that doesn't make it the same thing and the distinction is quite an important one. Thank you. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 08:15:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA07489 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:15:40 -0700 Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA07389 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:56:07 -0700 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199508311456.HAA07389@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: problems with programs being swaped out!! To: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu (Mark Tinguely) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: gurney_j@efn.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508311424.JAA28099@plains.nodak.edu> from "Mark Tinguely" at Aug 31, 95 09:24:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3286 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > right now I am having a regular problem with programs getting swapped out > > but never getting back in... right now Netscape just died on me wand it > > has the ps flags of: IW Right now netscape just stop responding... I > > have a 486/33DX (running at 40mhz), w/ 8megs ram and swap: > > in pre 4.4 days, BSD VM copied the entire text to backstore and user and ^^^^ Net/2 > sbrk pages were shoved into backstore when needed and they stayed there > until the program ended. > > since 386BSD days, it is normal operation for single page put into backstored > or a entire process is swap put into backstore, to remains in backstore until > the process died. The backstore acts like a cache. > > Back in late 386BSD or early FreeBSD, I modified the VM code to do exactly > like you wished happened, when a page(s) is brought back into RAM, the page > is removed from backstore. I kept counters to count the pages in/out of > backstore and the number of pages that were/were not modified before being > put on backstore after being brought back in. By the way, re-writes to > backstore without modification of the page was rare, so my changes did > not introduce much new overhead. At the time the disks and RAM were > smaller, swap backstore space was a premium. Logic says that a swapping machine > most like will not choose the same file to push out in low memory conditions > and this could lead to then common "full VM lockup error". My change did > help significantly my lowly 25 MHz 386 with 8 MB RAM and 80 MB running X. > There are some mods to swap pager (during the rewrite) that causes to system to free swap space as pages are are paged in (only when the system is low on swap.) > Just after my changes, the VM was rewritten. I am under the impression > (****** DISCLAIMER -- I HAVE NOT HAD TIME TO STUDY THE VM FOR SOME TIME, > I COULD BE MISTAKEN *****) that larger chunks of backstore are read into the > system to improve speed. At times, some pages are discarded which is okay > because they are on the backstore. > > I would like to take the time to restudy the VM, count the cost of putting > that code back in the VM, and also put look at a features for a laptop to > automatically power down without losing currently running processes. > Probably the best approach is for the system to free-up swap space for pages that are resident when the system is low on memory. I have been thinking about this actually. There are some more substantial improvements going in soon, and I'll be glad to add this clean-up operation (note that I think that it should happen only in low-VM situations.) My initial impression is that it is not optimal to free the pages from swap all of the time when paging pages in (esp for typically configured non-vm starved systems.) The approach that I have been planning on taking is for the pageout daemon to perform the clean-up (perhaps calling a swap_pager entry point.) Note that the swap_pager and vnode_pagers are undergoing major renovation -- we are going to have the VOP_GETPAGES, VOP_PUTPAGES entry points, and I plan for the swap_pager to use them also (most of the time talking to the specfs entry points, but it will also be able to use ufs or ext2fs entry points :-).) John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 08:16:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA08961 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:16:05 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA08503 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:15:27 -0700 Received: from chrome.onramp.net (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA11980 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:10:10 -0700 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.onramp.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA02341 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:59:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199508311459.JAA02341@chrome.onramp.net> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.onramp.net: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Aug 1995 23:09:08 +0200." <199508302109.XAA04892@uriah.heep.sax.de> Reply-To: jdl@chromatic.com Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:59:29 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Apparently, J Wunsch scribbled: > As Bruce Evans wrote: > > In response to my question: > > >Does it make sense to attempt to collect people's /etc/disktab entries > > >and make them more available in the (next) released /etc/disktab? > > > > No. You would need a hundred entries for each of a few hundred disks > > to get a reasonable coverage. > > Seconded, especially since /etc/disktab is actually > /etc/disk&partitiontab. Hmm... That's a good point. Perhaps then, it makes sense to make say, two or three entries for the top 20 disks used. One entry for an a/b/e or a/b/e/f bootable disk and one for a c only disk. Would those two cases cover 90% of the questions we see frequently?: - I've got a brand-spanking new Whizzle Disk and I want to put FreeBSD on it, but I can't label it... - I'm trying to add a second Osifragge disk to my system. How do I label it? Granted, it wouldn't provide the ultimate set of entries, but it just might provide enough useful information or cases that many questions could be answered. Certainly, having disklabel figure it all out automatically or computing it all internally would be nice -- if reliable and provided complete coverage. Heck, I don't know. jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 08:16:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA08981 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:16:05 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA08389 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:15:27 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA11620; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:06:47 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508311506.IAA11620@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: kernel size To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <10120.809880447@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 31, 95 07:47:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 974 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > be able to make a fixit floppy again and we've been meaning to do it > > > it's just low-prio. > > > > I would say this should not be low-prior, it is an often requested > > item, and has been missing for 2 releases, and is about to go missing > > for 3, I would say we need a fixit more than we needed ee :-). > > I should clarify then I suppose: It's a low priority because I've been > trying to fold this functionality back into boot.flp. If you think > about it, you already have mount/fsck/newfs/sh/ee (:-) and pretty much > everything else you need to repair the system there. We just lacked a > way of getting the user to the functionality. This is now fixed. GREAT! When can I see it in -current or -stable ??? And how major of a change does it require to the current code already in -stable? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 08:16:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA08982 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:16:05 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA08658 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:15:27 -0700 Received: from gemini ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14748(3)>; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:08:13 PDT Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14959; Thu, 31 Aug 95 11:08:06 EDT Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29077; Thu, 31 Aug 95 11:08:04 EDT Message-Id: <9508311508.AA29077@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: can swap space be shared with other OSes? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:08:03 PDT From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Linux has a problem with certain extended partitions (i.e. if you delete the first one, it doesn't see anything after that). While I'm working with partitions, I also want to be able to recognize bsd disk slices as several devices (and perhaps port a ffs driver to linux). (I already hacked up the linux fdisk to recognize bsd partitions). Can the swap space for bsd be shared by bsd/windows/linux? There's a strategy for sharing swap space on linux/windows... Also, is there interest in getting an ext2 driver on freebsd (to read linux partitions). I think the key to running multiple OSes is easy interoptability (even if the drivers are only read only). marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom (http://www.lpf.org) Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic Arthur C. Clarke, The Lost Worlds of 2001 marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 08:16:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA08973 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:16:05 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA08458 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:15:27 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA11973 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:09:31 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA10133; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:48:08 -0700 To: Robert Withrow cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Test/Release cycle. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:09:37 EDT." <199508311409.KAA07635@spooky.rwwa.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:48:08 -0700 Message-ID: <10131.809880488@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk 30 days is certainly what we've planned. Jordan > Something that bothers me is the (to me at least) unbelivably > short 12 day Test/release time for 2.0.5. The Alpha was released > and 12 days later 2.0.5 was released. > > I wonder if I am alone in thinking that that is *way* too short > of a time? I wonder if the release team tends to get a bad > case of release itis? > > It seems to me like 30 days would be a more reasonable period, and > if substantial problems show up, there should be another period > with another release. > > After all, almost *any* bug found in a pre-release kit should be > considered serious. Almost all (substantial) bugs should have been > removed by that time. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM > R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 08:16:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA08977 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:16:05 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA08411 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:15:26 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA11961 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:08:47 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA10122; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:47:27 -0700 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kernel size In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:49:24 PDT." <199508311349.GAA11381@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:47:27 -0700 Message-ID: <10120.809880447@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > be able to make a fixit floppy again and we've been meaning to do it > > it's just low-prio. > > I would say this should not be low-prior, it is an often requested > item, and has been missing for 2 releases, and is about to go missing > for 3, I would say we need a fixit more than we needed ee :-). I should clarify then I suppose: It's a low priority because I've been trying to fold this functionality back into boot.flp. If you think about it, you already have mount/fsck/newfs/sh/ee (:-) and pretty much everything else you need to repair the system there. We just lacked a way of getting the user to the functionality. This is now fixed. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 08:39:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA10687 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:39:32 -0700 Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA10678 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:39:31 -0700 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199508311539.IAA10678@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: can swap space be shared with other OSes? To: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com (Marty Leisner) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9508311508.AA29077@gnu.mc.xerox.com> from "Marty Leisner" at Aug 31, 95 08:08:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 589 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Also, is there interest in getting an ext2 driver on freebsd (to read > linux partitions). > I have the Lites version of ext2fs running on FreeBSD already. I want to spend a few days testing, debugging, and cleaning up the clustering code. Note also that it is fully functional (read&write)!!! At that time, I will be resubmitting it back to the author for his review. Next, I'll work with DG, et.al. to add it in to the 2.2 tree. Give me about a week or two!!! :-). > > marty > leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com > Member of the League for Programming Freedom > John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 09:11:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA11662 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:11:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA11646 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:11:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199508311611.JAA11646@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: pete@kesa26.kesa.com (Pete Delaney), jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net Subject: Re: 4GB Drives In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 95 05:57:14 PDT." <199508311257.FAA11224@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:10:54 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Now, can you all leave me alone for 30 days so I can go get the stripes >working, I have small bottleneck that needs fixed :-):-):-) And can >anyone tell me what the mean and standard deviation of an I/O request to >an aic7870 is before it hits the drive given 0 scsi bus contention? This >seems to greatly effect rotation offset on stripe sets when pushed to >the limits of data coming under the head just after the I/O hits the >drive. Hmm. You'd have to come up with some way to benchmark it since its very dependant on the sequencer code. I'd be interested to here what your results were. :) So, are you planning on using a 3940W for this type of application? > >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 09:25:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA12091 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:25:10 -0700 Received: from chrome.onramp.net (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA12083 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:25:04 -0700 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.onramp.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02661; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:24:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199508311624.LAA02661@chrome.onramp.net> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.onramp.net: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More ATAPI -- possible insight into probe problems...? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:17:15 +1000." <199508301917.FAA18876@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Reply-To: jdl@chromatic.com Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:24:03 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Apparently, Bruce Evans scribbled: > I asked: > >So who can tell me any details about that lovely weak check for R/W > >registers that appears to be failing for me? Simple things like: > > > - Is this a valid register for a CDROM drive too? Ie, is this check > > tacitly assuming a hard disk beneath it? > > - Is it subject to timing problems? > > - It *claims* to be "too weak", however it appears to be too strong! > > It's too weak for ST506...EIDE controllers with normal drives attached. > These all have read/write registers, so the inb() should return what > was written. That used to be tested for, but someone weakened the > test without documenting why. Why not test agains the value written then instead of a 0xff...? > I don't know what happens for CDROM drives. Er, I wonder too. In particular, when it is on a bus that also has a disk on it, it appears to work fine. When on a bus as the sole device, it appears to fail (for me). > The point of the test is to attempt to limit the damage if there is > a device other than an ST506...EIDE controller behind the port. It > is far too weak for that (if 0xff wasn't so magic, then the test > would have much less than a 1/256 chance of detecting conflicts). > Even if it tested for `== 0xa5', then any device with a read/write > port at the probed address would pass the test. I looked at the ATAPI spec, and there is supposed to be a R/W address there. Even for the CDROM, it appears like 0x170 + 4 was R/W. I wonder, however, if it was subject to timing and/or validity checks that prevent it from being arbitrarily read/written. Is the ST506 on the motherboard or on a drive? Do I have one? I looked on the motherboard, and I can find a Big Chip (tm) near the ribbon cables labled FDC37C665GT made by SMC. Floppy Disc Controller? Couldn't find anything with ST506 on it. This is a DELL P90 Dimension XPS. It's got a "PCIset" of chips on it too... BTW, I see: fdc0: NEC 72065B chip0 rev 17 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 67 on pci0:2 > The test is very sloppy. It should do something like: Looks like you've been here before! :-) Should your code be added to the driver? Or, perhaps, why *shouldn't* your code be added? > Then the test would be stronger and your CDROM would be sure to fail :-). I laughed out loud at this point! Removing this test does allow the device to be recognized and probe()-able. However, it still totally fails to attach(). I noticed this comment in the TODO section of wd.c: /* TODO: * o Satisfy ATA timing in all cases. * * o Don't use polling except for initialization. Need to * reorganize the state machine. Then "extra" interrupts * shouldn't happen (except maybe one for initialization). It's this last one that worries me, because I think that is the one that is stopping this code from working for myself and at least one other person (Steve). The debug trace shows: wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa atapi1.0 at 0x170: attach called wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, cmd16 [info deleted] atapi1.0: req im 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 len=24 atapi1.0: start atapi1.0: send cmd 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 atapi1.0: intr ireason=0x1, len=24, status=48, error=0 atapi1.0: phase cmdout atapi1.0: send cmd 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 atapi1.0: intr ireason=0x3, len=24, status=41, error=64 atapi1.0: phase complete atapi1.1 at 0x170: attach called atapi.1 at 0x170: no device Here, I think the problem is a joint bobbling by atapi_request_immediate(), atapi_send_cmd() and atapi_io(). If a_r_i() is doing the a_s_c() call, why does wait_io() think it should too? /* Start packet command, wait for DRQ. */ if (atapi_start_cmd (ata, ac) >= 0 && atapi_wait_cmd (ata, ac) >= 0) { /* Send packet command. */ atapi_send_cmd (ata, ac); /* Do all needed i/o. */ while (atapi_io (ata, ac)) /* Wait for DRQ deassert. */ for (cnt=2000; cnt>0; --cnt) if (! (inb (ata->port + AR_STATUS) & ARS_DRQ)) break; } Might there be a needed "wait for clear flags" before the atapi_io() happens? Is this atapi_send_cmd() just simply not needed here? I removed the call to atapi_send_cmd() and got this instead: atapi1.0: req im 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 len=24 atapi1.0: start atapi1.0: intr ireason=0x1, len=24, status=48, error=0 atapi1.0: phase cmdout atapi1.0: send cmd 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 atapi1.0: intr ireason=0x3, len=24, status=41, error=64 atapi1.0: phase complete atapi1.1 at 0x170: attach called atapi.1 at 0x170: no device So, that clearly isn't the straight up answer... Oh well. Well then, all this begs the simple questions... - Anyone else fixed this one yet? - Am I the only one who sees a problem with the IDE CDROM? - Will 2.1 contain this driver code -- fixed or broken? I personally am at a bit of a loss to actually change this code in any significant way. jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 10:11:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA13433 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:11:22 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA13427 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:11:21 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA22925; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:07:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508311707.KAA22925@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:07:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: pete@kesa26.kesa.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <199508311257.FAA11224@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 31, 95 05:57:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1409 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Now, can you all leave me alone for 30 days so I can go get the stripes > working, I have small bottleneck that needs fixed :-):-):-) And can > anyone tell me what the mean and standard deviation of an I/O request to > an aic7870 is before it hits the drive given 0 scsi bus contention? This > seems to greatly effect rotation offset on stripe sets when pushed to > the limits of data coming under the head just after the I/O hits the > drive. Modern drives write sectors in reverse order; when asked to read, they start reading from where the head is at and keep reading until the sector you want is read. For contiguous reads, this pre-caches the data. I think you would achieve an effect opposite of the one you want if you were to successfully rotdelay. One thing that *would* speed you up is not crossing physical cylinder boundries (seek scheduling ala the old BSD code). The problem with this is that the information is only available from SCSI II devices and is not linearly bound (ie: the track length varies by zone), making it difficult to use without adding a lot of overhead. But it's probably yor best bet. Without the physical seek locations, any benchmarking will be rather arbitrary based on the layout you end up with for a particular test. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 10:20:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA13741 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:20:14 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA13729 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:20:09 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA22960; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:15:54 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508311715.KAA22960@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: can swap space be shared with other OSes? To: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com (Marty Leisner) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:15:54 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9508311508.AA29077@gnu.mc.xerox.com> from "Marty Leisner" at Aug 31, 95 08:08:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1897 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > While I'm working with partitions, I also want to be able to recognize > bsd disk slices as several devices (and perhaps port a ffs driver to > linux). (I already hacked up the linux fdisk to recognize bsd partitions). > > Can the swap space for bsd be shared by bsd/windows/linux? > > There's a strategy for sharing swap space on linux/windows... There's a similar one for BSD: mount the DOS drive, configure a vn device using vnconfig, and use it as swap. I believe a similar scheme would work for an unknown partition ID, for instance the Linux swap -- assuming each DOS partition gets a logical device regardless of whether we recognize the ID or not. This is something that should be done if it hasn't been already. This is more an algorithmic issue for devfs than anything else; the idea of a major (controller) and minor (target) number is based on the idea that you get a vnode that points to the device. If you have a devfs, you can get one of these without a major or a minor: the device is exported by vnode intrinsically, so the structure reference can be hard coded without a major or a minor for each device exported. This is an important prerequisite for cloning pty devices, for instance, though one doesn't strictly need a devfs if one can hack the lookup routines based on the major (what AIX does). > Also, is there interest in getting an ext2 driver on freebsd (to read > linux partitions). I believe someone is working on this and recently reported some success to the -current list (that might have been you, though, so if it was, then "yes!"). > I think the key to running multiple OSes is easy interoptability (even > if the drivers are only read only). Agree -- though read-only is semi-operable, not interoperable. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 10:26:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA14096 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:26:21 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA14090 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:26:20 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id MAA07284; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:25:42 -0500 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:25:42 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199508311725.MAA07284@plains.nodak.edu> To: dyson@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: problems with programs being swaped out!! Cc: gurney_j@efn.org, hackers@freebsd.org Content-Length: 1077 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Probably the best approach is for the system to free-up swap space for > pages that are resident when the system is low on memory. I agree. In the earlier post, I should have made it more clear that hardware concerns in the 386BSD 0.x days are different from those today. Today, if your machine is pushed to backstore starvation, your performance goes bad anyway, I agree, that would a good time to switch strategies to free pages in RAM. to patronize the other readers and to make sure I am not saying anything critical, anytime a person changes the philosophy of the VM, the whole system is affected. For My Information: Wouldn't an additional mask be required to tell which pages are backstored but also resident or are you going to run down processes and flush out already backstored pages leaving the other pages that have never been backstored resident (because there is not place to put them because we are backstore starved)? or are you going remove the backstore pages for the resident pages and let the pageout alorithm act normally? or, ... or, ... --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 10:28:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA14186 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:28:23 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA14178 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:28:20 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA10978 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:16:34 -0700 Prev-Resent: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:16:33 -0700 Prev-Resent: "hackers@freebsd.org " Replied: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:16:27 -0700 Replied: "fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) " Received: from amigalib.com (fishpond.amigalib.com [165.247.33.2]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA10507 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:15:49 -0700 Received: by amigalib.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #64) id m0soCQm-0004nYC; Thu, 31 Aug 95 09:25 MST Message-Id: From: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) Subject: Re: DAT drive support To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:25:32 -0700 (MST) Cc: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) In-Reply-To: <9681.809874083@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 31, 95 06:01:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 808 Resent-To: hackers@freebsd.org Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:16:34 -0700 Resent-Message-ID: <10976.809889394@time.cdrom.com> Resent-From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > That's a bit sparse, I'm afraid. Try this: > > [also, rst0 is the correct device - rwt0 is for non-SCSI tapes] > mt -f /dev/rst0 blocksize 0 > > Now try reading from the tape. Ok, I tried this and I get: st0(aha0:6:0): BLANK CHECK req sz: 16384 (decimal) asc:30,1 Cannot read medium - unknown format I try writing to the tape and I get: st0(aha0:6:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:7d000 asc:c,0 Write error sks:80,1 I try "mt -f /dev/rst0 status" and I get: Present Mode: Density = X3B5/88-185A Blocksize variable ---------available modes--------- Mode 0: Density = 0x00 Blocksize variable Mode 1: Density = 0x00 Blocksize variable Mode 2: Density = 0x00 Blocksize variable Mode 3: Density = 0x00 Blocksize variable -Fred From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 10:33:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA14334 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:33:48 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA14328 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:33:44 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA12130; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:33:11 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508311733.KAA12130@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM (Pete Delaney) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: pete@kesa26.Kesa.COM, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <9508311100.AA05592@kesa26.Kesa.COM> from "Pete Delaney" at Aug 31, 95 04:00:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 843 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > So Rodney, which 4 GB Drive would you buy? None, I use stacks of 535MB drives for what ever capacity I need (easy to do when you buy them in the 10 paks and use NCR controllers and have unlimited space for them (I don't use cases, it's all on table tops :-)). So, 4GB would be 8 drives, and 2 or 4 controllers. Let me see, 8 * 195 + 2 * 72 == 1704 for a subsystem that can produce over 32MB/s of read data :-). Oh, and my distributor just called me, I have new pricing on Micropolis 3243 and 3243W drives, $1200 and $1287. I also now have avaliable to me 60 units of Quantum Capella 2.2 G Wide drives at $830 each. Price on non wide Capella is still sitting at $800.00. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 10:55:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA15152 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:55:09 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15145 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:55:07 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA12139; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:54:28 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508311754.KAA12139@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: pete@kesa26.kesa.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <199508311611.JAA11646@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Aug 31, 95 09:10:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1245 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >Now, can you all leave me alone for 30 days so I can go get the stripes > >working, I have small bottleneck that needs fixed :-):-):-) And can > >anyone tell me what the mean and standard deviation of an I/O request to > >an aic7870 is before it hits the drive given 0 scsi bus contention? This > >seems to greatly effect rotation offset on stripe sets when pushed to > >the limits of data coming under the head just after the I/O hits the > >drive. > > Hmm. You'd have to come up with some way to benchmark it since its very > dependant on the sequencer code. I'd be interested to here what your > results were. :) :-). How much control do you have over the controller LED in the sequencer code? Would it be possible to wink it when an I/O CCB comes in from the host, and then double wink it when it goes out the scsi bus? Or am I going to have to find a 128 channel logic analyzer and pull my hair out for a week to try and capture this :-). > So, are you planning on using a 3940W for this type of application? Possibly, prototypes are NCR 825 and aha2940W right now... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 11:11:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA15690 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:11:22 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA15684 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:11:18 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id MAA06837 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:11:11 -0600 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:11:11 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199508311811.MAA06837@trout.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Install kudos Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: helena.MT.net!news.sprintlink.net!gol2!gol1!usenet From: MICHAEL Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: FreeBSD - Very easy to install! Date: 30 Aug 1995 13:09:46 GMT Organization: GNJ Spectrum Lines: 46 Message-ID: <421nuq$nvo@gol1.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: admin.gnj.or.jp Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-URL: news:comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc I still don't know if FreeBSD is more stable than Linux, but I'll say this much: FreeBSD is 10 million times easier to install than Linux was! The 2.0.5 CD-ROM took me less than an hour to install, as opposed to four days for Linux. The FreeBSD installer automates quite a lot: the partitioning and formatting, setting up the X configuration file and so on. Also, setting up an automatic boot record in the master disk is completely painless, unlike Linux's "LILO" system. Also, all my devices were recognized to start with. The Linux setup seems to handle setting up of the Ethernet card more automatically though...I still haven't figured out where that setup is. Some suggestions/comments: o The partition feature in Install is a bit cryptic. The help for partition doesn't explain what the size units are, nor does it say that in the next step sub-partitions will be made for swap space, etc. o As someone mentioned elsewhere, the mouse device name does not seem to be mentioned anywhere (for X configuration). o The "boot from DOS" feature does not seem to work -- at least for me. It keeps booting DOS again, as opposed to booting FreeBSD. However it was quite easy to make a bootable floppy that worked the first time (as opposed to trying half-a-dozen variations of boot floppies in Linux). There are all minor comments though. I think the person or people who wrote the automatic installation procedures are really to be complemented. They have made installing a Unix system as easy as it can be. MICHAEL __________________________________________ GNJ Spectrum Tokyo +81-3-5377-2401 (I%(J michael@gnj.or.jp Featuring Internet, OneNet and Pride International Networks IP Address 202.243.53.3, Port 3004 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 11:33:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA16283 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:33:55 -0700 Received: from chrome.onramp.net (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA16277 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:33:53 -0700 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.onramp.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA03293; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:32:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199508311832.NAA03293@chrome.onramp.net> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.onramp.net: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Install kudos In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:11:11 MDT." <199508311811.MAA06837@trout.sri.MT.net> Reply-To: jdl@chromatic.com Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:32:45 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate seems to think MICHAEL wrote: > I think the person or people > who wrote the automatic installation procedures are really to be > complemented. They have made installing a Unix system as easy as > it can be. Agreed! Anyone here ever done that "Install UNIX on a cold PDP-11 or the early VAXen" exercise? Ow! My brain hurts just thinking about it. Just *look* at the cobwebs under *this* rock, jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 11:34:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA16347 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:34:27 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA16334 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:34:24 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA00326 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:33:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199508311833.LAA00326@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4GB Drives In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:33:11 PDT." <199508311733.KAA12130@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:33:52 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know who sells PCI NCR controllers in the Bay Area? Also, Rod are you now a re-seller for the Matrox Meteor Capture PCI board? Tnks, Amancio >>> "Rodney W. Grimes" said: > > > > > > So Rodney, which 4 GB Drive would you buy? > > None, I use stacks of 535MB drives for what ever capacity I need (easy > to do when you buy them in the 10 paks and use NCR controllers and have > unlimited space for them (I don't use cases, it's all on table tops :-)). > > > So, 4GB would be 8 drives, and 2 or 4 controllers. Let me see, > 8 * 195 + 2 * 72 == 1704 for a subsystem that can produce over > 32MB/s of read data :-). > > Oh, and my distributor just called me, I have new pricing on Micropolis > 3243 and 3243W drives, $1200 and $1287. > > I also now have avaliable to me 60 units of Quantum Capella 2.2 G Wide > drives at $830 each. > > Price on non wide Capella is still sitting at $800.00. > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 11:58:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA16964 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:58:01 -0700 Received: from gemsgw.med.ge.com (gemsgw.med.ge.com [192.88.230.10]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA16958 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:57:56 -0700 Received: from gemed.med.ge.com by gemsgw.med.ge.com (4.1/GEMS-1.1) id AA00343; Thu, 31 Aug 95 13:59:03 CDT Received: from sol.sol.med.ge.com (sol-gw [3.28.124.2]) by gemed.med.ge.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA21893 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:56:06 -0500 Received: from merak.med.ge.com by sol.sol.med.ge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08363; Thu, 31 Aug 95 13:57:14 CDT From: laufen@sol.med.ge.com (Derek Laufenberg x7-4534) Received: by merak.med.ge.com (4.1/client-1.3) id AA05775; Thu, 31 Aug 95 13:57:12 CDT Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 13:57:12 CDT Message-Id: <9508311857.AA05775@merak.med.ge.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Missing Memory help Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've got a problem with one of my systems. I run both DOS and Freebsd on it. The problem I have is with the memory the DOS mem command reports. The dos mem commands reports 634 conventional and 0 upper or reserved. What gives? Non of my other systems do this. They all respond with 384K reserved and 92K upper. When I boot FreeBSD is there a command that will tell me what BSD thinks the physical memory layout is? I don't care about virtual at this point. I just want to see if the FreeBSD view of the system is any better. Also, do any of the Hardware-Hacker types have any clues on what could be wrong with the hardware. Note: I've removed all the crap from the config.sys and command.com so I don't think its software. At boot: 20096KB memory checked at power-up or reset DOS mem: Conv 634KB Upper 0KB Reserved 0KB Extended 19456KB In short, where is the other 6K and why is none of the extended being used to fill the upper + reserved regions? FreeBSD Unix: What command should I use? (vmstat didn't help me) System Info: VESA 486 Deep Green PC (R407e) 20M (4M + 16M, 30pin SIMM) 256K cache Diamond Pro VESA LB Multi-IO Card /w EIDE drive TIA for any help. Derek Laufenberg laufen@sol.med.ge.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 11:58:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA16999 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:58:09 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA16993 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:58:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199508311858.LAA16993@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: pete@kesa26.kesa.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net Subject: Re: 4GB Drives In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 95 10:54:28 PDT." <199508311754.KAA12139@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:58:07 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >> >Now, can you all leave me alone for 30 days so I can go get the stripes >> >working, I have small bottleneck that needs fixed :-):-):-) And can >> >anyone tell me what the mean and standard deviation of an I/O request to >> >an aic7870 is before it hits the drive given 0 scsi bus contention? This >> >seems to greatly effect rotation offset on stripe sets when pushed to >> >the limits of data coming under the head just after the I/O hits the >> >drive. >> >> Hmm. You'd have to come up with some way to benchmark it since its very >> dependant on the sequencer code. I'd be interested to here what your >> results were. :) > >:-). How much control do you have over the controller LED in the sequencer >code? Would it be possible to wink it when an I/O CCB comes in from the >host, and then double wink it when it goes out the scsi bus? Or am I >going to have to find a 128 channel logic analyzer and pull my hair out >for a week to try and capture this :-). You could do it in about four lines of total code change. First, you'd have to leave the led in diagnostic mode: The two high bits of SBLKCTL control the led: #define DIAGLEDEN 0x80 #define DIAGLEDON 0x40 They are initially cleared by the mask on line 1871 of -current's aic7xxx.c. Just or back in the diaglen bit on line 1898. outb(SBLKCTL + iobase, sblkctl | DIAGLENEN); Now as far as making it blink, either the kernel driver can manipulate it via an outb, or you can use any of the or,xor,and sequencer instructions to manipulate the led. Where to do the triggering depends on what exactly you want to measure. If you want to time how long it takes for the sequencer program to pull an entry off the queue, successfully arbitrate, and go to data_phase (probably the most meaningful benchmark), I'd turn the led on at line 291 in aic7xxx.seq, and turn off the led somewhere in the p_dataout: and p_datain: cases. You may also want to double wink the led if you get a reconnect so that you can differentiate the case when you lose arbitration to a reconnecting target. As you can see, you can do a lot with that little led. > >> So, are you planning on using a 3940W for this type of application? > >Possibly, prototypes are NCR 825 and aha2940W right now... Remeber that the 3940 allows up to 255 queued commands as oposed to the 16 of the 2940W. As soon as we get better queuing code into FreeBSD, this will make a difference. > >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 12:34:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA18676 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:34:45 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18649 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:34:32 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA06330; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 05:30:06 +1000 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 05:30:06 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508311930.FAA06330@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bugs@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, jrs@CERF.NET, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Strange behavior of uha0 device in config. Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I am having a problem getting the default kernel to recognize my SCSI >controller. The sequence is this: >1. Make the boot floppy. >2. Boot the floppy and enter '-c' for config. >3. Device uha0 (UltraStore 34F localbus) defaults to port 0x330. >4. Mine is set to port 0x230. >5. I use the command 'port uha0 0x230' to reset the port. >6. Issue the command 'probe uha0' and comes back with good status. The probe command doesn't really work (it probably works the first time but may interfere with later probes including the real one). >7. Issue the 'ls' command and device uha0 shows ok. `ls' just prints the values from a table and isn't very useful for error checking. It is useful for checking the table. >8. Any further activity on that device causes the device to change to > uha1 with the error message device number too high. This can be > verified by simply issuing a second 'probe uha0' command. This is because each successful uha_probe() ends with uha_unit++ and uha_unit is used instead of the unit specified in the configuration :-(. >And yes, because of another hardware conflict, I need to have the UltraStore >on port 0x230. Ther may also be a conflict with the matcd driver which has a hard-wired table of ports { 0x230, 0x240, 0x250, 0x260 }. This table is used if the port in the config is `?', i.e., -1, as it is in the GENERIC config. The matcd config is done after the uha config, so it might unprogram the uha. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 12:55:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA19233 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:55:45 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.84.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19227 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:55:44 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id OAA12053 for freebsd.org!hackers; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:37:17 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA08127; 31 Aug 95 08:29:36 CDT (Thu) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA08701; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:55:42 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9508311355.AA08701@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:55:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com, hackers@freebsd.org, piero@strider.ibenet.it In-Reply-To: <199508302239.IAA25555@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 31, 95 08:39:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 271 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The main purpose of cuaa0 to multiplex the port, not to disable modem > control. In fact, cuaa0 normally has modem control. Hrm. Has this behavior changed in 2.x? I tried using tty00 for dialout on 1.x and had to switch to cua00, even on a ppp connect with no getty. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 12:56:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA19281 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:56:23 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.84.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19275 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:56:21 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id OAA12070 for freebsd.org!hackers; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:37:23 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA08211; 31 Aug 95 08:33:02 CDT (Thu) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA09129; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:59:09 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9508311359.AA09129@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:59:09 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508302300.JAA26409@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Aug 31, 95 09:00:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 348 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > `talk peter ttyXX' won't work if peter is actually logged in to cuaXX. If you're logged in on cuaa0 "talk peter ttya0" won't work either. If you're distinguishing them by the last two letters, why not do what SCO does and call them "ttyd0" and "ttyD0" or something? Mixing up two mechanisims for separating the namespace is asking for trouble. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 12:58:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA19383 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:58:53 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19376 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:58:51 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA12264; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:58:08 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508311958.MAA12264@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <10050.809879220@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 31, 95 07:27:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 878 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I wish.. but I've been trying to pound some common sense into the minds > > of all of FreeBSD about what you do and don't do in a release engineering > > branch of a tree. It is starting to sink in, but it still has a long > > way to go. > > Well, I think this bears further investigation later, but I only have > this to say: > > If Rod or anyone else wants to pound sense into the project WRT > scheduling and such, the time to do so is NOT 2 WEEKS BEFORE RELEASE! Your right, thats why I tried to get the ground rules layed 2 months ago, and I thought they had been pretty clearly layed. NO NEW CODE IN THE 2.1 BRANCH. No matter, this all about to become a moot point. See my next email to the core team. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 13:08:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA19965 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:08:06 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19959 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:08:04 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA00476; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:07:47 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508312007.NAA00476@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: kernel size To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508311349.GAA11381@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 31, 95 06:49:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 683 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > I guess we can still compress the binaries in the mfs filesystem > > > which would leave them still compressed when the kernel is decompressed, > > > > Already done! The crunched binary is, in turn, compressed. not in -current it isn't..... > Can some one go try a ``boot -a'' with a 2.1-stable (last snap) floppy > and see if you can change from the kernel floppy to the root floppy > using this? I don't have one handy just now :-(. All my boot code > on floppies is still 2.0R :-( :-(. yes you can > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 13:12:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA20095 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:12:02 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20086 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:11:58 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA12388; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:10:34 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508312010.NAA12388@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: pete@kesa26.kesa.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <199508311707.KAA22925@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Aug 31, 95 10:07:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3145 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Now, can you all leave me alone for 30 days so I can go get the stripes > > working, I have small bottleneck that needs fixed :-):-):-) And can > > anyone tell me what the mean and standard deviation of an I/O request to > > an aic7870 is before it hits the drive given 0 scsi bus contention? This > > seems to greatly effect rotation offset on stripe sets when pushed to > > the limits of data coming under the head just after the I/O hits the > > drive. > > Modern drives write sectors in reverse order; when asked to read, they > start reading from where the head is at and keep reading until the sector > you want is read. For contiguous reads, this pre-caches the data. > > I think you would achieve an effect opposite of the one you want if you > were to successfully rotdelay. One more time you are totally out of context with this, that happens, let me explain what I was talking about when I said ``rotation offset''. You see, in modern workstation disk drives you have something called spindle sync. Well, when you set up spindle sync you have 2 modeselect values you tweak. One bit says who is the sync master and who are the sync slaves. Then for each slave drive you tweak another value that is used to offset the spindles from perfect sync so that the I/O of block zero of a track on drive 0 of a stripe set has just finished the scsi bus transfer when block zero of a track on drive 1 is about to come under the heads. I was in no way talking about ``rotdelay'' in the file system since, I am still playing with raw devices at the block level, no file systems have been built since the slice code kinda screwed me up for getting labels on the things. > > One thing that *would* speed you up is not crossing physical cylinder > boundries (seek scheduling ala the old BSD code). The problem with > this is that the information is only available from SCSI II devices > and is not linearly bound (ie: the track length varies by zone), making > it difficult to use without adding a lot of overhead. But it's probably > yor best bet. Already looking at those factors. I am given the fact that my drives will be SCSI-II, will report the zone pages, etc. Without that stripe sets are pretty stupid and can never be made to go fast. I have been able to get to 85% of theorotical bandwidth, not bad, but want to sqeeze that on up to 95% before I go looking at laying file systems on this thing. > Without the physical seek locations, any benchmarking will be rather > arbitrary based on the layout you end up with for a particular test. To eliminate this very problem whilst I work on the technological ends of things I am simply doing raw disk I/O starting at the same logical drive on all spindles. Those do often end up in the same physical location, and when I want the best numbers simply start at logical sector 0 which will always be physically the same location on all spindles sans whatever value I put into scsi mode page 4:Rotational Offset:. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 13:12:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA20132 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:12:12 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20124 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:12:10 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA00493; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:12:00 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508312012.NAA00493@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: kernel size To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508311349.GAA11381@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 31, 95 06:49:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 484 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Can some one go try a ``boot -a'' with a 2.1-stable (last snap) floppy > and see if you can change from the kernel floppy to the root floppy > using this? I don't have one handy just now :-(. All my boot code > on floppies is still 2.0R :-( :-(. oops no you can't.. it goes to MFS no-matter what you do..... > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 13:19:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA20366 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:19:43 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20355 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:19:38 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA07756; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 06:18:09 +1000 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 06:18:09 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508312018.GAA07756@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> `talk peter ttyXX' won't work if peter is actually logged in to cuaXX. >If you're logged in on cuaa0 "talk peter ttya0" won't work either. >If you're distinguishing them by the last two letters, why not do what >SCO does and call them "ttyd0" and "ttyD0" or something? Mixing up two >mechanisims for separating the namespace is asking for trouble. cua* has been used for a long time. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 13:19:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA20385 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:19:53 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20377 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:19:50 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA07723; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 06:15:56 +1000 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 06:15:56 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199508312015.GAA07723@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, piero@strider.ibenet.it Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> The main purpose of cuaa0 to multiplex the port, not to disable modem >> control. In fact, cuaa0 normally has modem control. >Hrm. Has this behavior changed in 2.x? I tried using tty00 for dialout on >1.x and had to switch to cua00, even on a ppp connect with no getty. It hasn't changed since 1.1.5. cua00 is for dialout, not for no modem control. ttyd0 is for general use. tty00 was another name for ttyd0 that was forced on you if you ran MAKEDEV to create cua00. Having 2 names for the same thing caused problems. They can't exist at the same time because the device database would be confusing, so MAKEDEV removed ttyd0 when creating tty00/cua00. This causes documentation problems. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 13:22:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA20542 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:22:09 -0700 Received: from devnull (devnull.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.29]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20535 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:22:07 -0700 Received: from olympus by devnull (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA12868; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:21:50 -0500 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA18006; Thu, 31 Aug 95 15:21:37 CDT From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9508312021.AA18006@olympus> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: dawes@physics.usyd.edu.au (David Dawes) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:21:36 -0500 (CDT) Cc: faulkner@devnull, jkh@time.cdrom.com, Piero@strider.ibenet.it, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, peter@nmti.com In-Reply-To: <199508310149.AA14169@physics.su.oz.au> from "David Dawes" at Aug 31, 95 11:49:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1743 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >> > > >Oh yeh, the docs should have something in big bold letters about linking > >> > > >/dev/mouse to /dev/cuaa0 under whatever name it ends up as... > >> > > > >> > > That would be bogus. X works with the vanilla POSIX port ttyd0 and > >> > > always has. > >> > > >> > I'd not say it's "bogus". Maybe it's redundant, or strictly > >> > >> I agree. I was already planning to put something in the 2.1 install > >> that said "What sort of mouse do you have? >> port assignments follows>" and then link /dev/mouse to it (and maybe > >> suggest that they rebuild a kernel, if it's a PS/2 mouse). > >> > >> Between serial meeces on different ports, PS/2 mice, and busmeeces, > >> it's a problem for new users. Making X standardise on /dev/mouse was > >> going to be my next request of those folks and we'd just make sure the > >> link was in place. > > > >But you would still have to select a mouse protocol in the XF86Config file. > >I would be thrilled to see which protocols are supported. I had to > >strings the server to figure out what they called the PS/2 mouse protocol. > > > >They call it PS/2. > > Reading the XF86Config(5) man page might have been easier. Also you > could use the xf86config utility to generate your XF86Config file, and > it will show you the available protocols and ask you which you want. > > David > "Well, I could have done that", he mumbles as he beats himself about the head and shoulders with his nerf bat with the RTFM label on it. -- _______________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner - faulkner@isd.tandem.com - http://cactus.org/~faulkner _______________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 13:24:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA20657 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:24:44 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20650 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:24:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA11783; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:10:45 -0700 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:58:08 PDT." <199508311958.MAA12264@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:10:44 -0700 Message-ID: <11781.809899844@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Your right, thats why I tried to get the ground rules layed 2 months > ago, and I thought they had been pretty clearly layed. NO NEW CODE IN > THE 2.1 BRANCH. Yes yes. But that's not the point. What we needed were not "rules" so much as the kind of "corporate culture" necessary to follow them. It's all well and good to say things like "NO NEW CODE ..." but it still doesn't mean that everyone's lined up behind the whole concept of WHY the release is happening, when it needs to happen and HOW > > No matter, this all about to become a moot point. See my next email > to the core team. > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 13:27:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA20766 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:27:06 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20760 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:27:03 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA11816; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:13:04 -0700 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/disktab and stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:58:08 PDT." <199508311958.MAA12264@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:13:04 -0700 Message-ID: <11813.809899984@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Your right, thats why I tried to get the ground rules layed 2 months > ago, and I thought they had been pretty clearly layed. NO NEW CODE IN > THE 2.1 BRANCH. Argh. Previous message got swallowed by this stupid DOS box. Anyway, what I wanted to say was that to really be an effective release engineering engine, you have to have tracks pointing to where you want to go and how you go about getting there on a day-to-day basis. Saying what NOT to do is important, but it's only a very small component of the problem. People do not thrive in an environment where their only guidance is negative reinforcement for their "mistakes". > No matter, this all about to become a moot point. See my next email Hmmm. Jordan > to the core team. > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 13:28:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA20842 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:28:58 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20836 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:28:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA11827; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:14:42 -0700 To: Julian Elischer cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kernel size In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:07:47 PDT." <199508312007.NAA00476@ref.tfs.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:14:42 -0700 Message-ID: <11825.809900082@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Already done! The crunched binary is, in turn, compressed. > not in -current it isn't..... Say what? Where are you looking?? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 13:51:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA22322 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:51:11 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAB22315 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:51:07 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA11016; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 23:01:04 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA19744 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:27:46 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00289 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:03:34 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA01379; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:08:30 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199508311808.UAA01379@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Test/Release cycle. To: witr@rwwa.com (Robert Withrow) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:08:29 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508311409.KAA07635@spooky.rwwa.com> from "Robert Withrow" at Aug 31, 95 10:09:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 779 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > short 12 day Test/release time for 2.0.5. The Alpha was released > and 12 days later 2.0.5 was released. > > I wonder if I am alone in thinking that that is *way* too short > of a time? I wonder if the release team tends to get a bad > case of release itis? Don't know about release-itis, but I second your opinion about the tight timeframe. However, I think this related to the fact that 2.0R was considered a BAD THING(tm) or at least much less than optimal quality. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 13:58:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA23107 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:58:17 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA23084 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:58:14 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA00679; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:57:54 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508312057.NAA00679@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: kernel size To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <11825.809900082@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 31, 95 01:14:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1407 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > Already done! The crunched binary is, in turn, compressed. > > not in -current it isn't..... > > Say what? Where are you looking?? > > Jordan > I made one today look in the makefile.. release.8: write_mfs_in_kernel @cd ${.CURDIR} && $(MAKE) ckRELEASEDIR rm -rf ${RD}/mfsfd mkdir ${RD}/mfsfd cd ${RD}/mfsfd && \ mkdir -p dev mnt stand/help @cd ${.CURDIR} && $(MAKE) installCRUNCH CRUNCH=boot \ DIR=${RD}/mfsfd/stand ZIP=false ^^^^^^^^^ as opposed to the fixit.. release.10: @cd ${.CURDIR} && $(MAKE) ckRELEASEDIR rm -rf ${RD}/fixitfd mkdir ${RD}/fixitfd cd ${RD}/fixitfd && \ mkdir stand bin sbin etc mnt mnt1 mnt2 mnt3 mnt4 tmp ln -f ${RD}/kernels/GENERIC.kz ${RD}/fixitfd/kernel @cd ${.CURDIR} && $(MAKE) installCRUNCH CRUNCH=fixit \ DIR=${RD}/fixitfd/stand ZIP=true this would give us a 'little' more room.. at the moment, the limit is thte fact that the current GENERIC +FS DEcompresses to > 2MB but if we gzip the crunch file the decompressed size would shrink, but the compressed file would remain about the same.. and running gzipped executables can't share text segs, so we MIGHT run short or ram at run-time.. need to check it I guess. (but we'd gain 400k back as well) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 14:16:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA24833 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:16:51 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA24824 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:16:42 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA23399; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:10:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199508312110.OAA23399@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:10:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, pete@kesa26.kesa.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <199508312010.NAA12388@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 31, 95 01:10:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5222 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > You see, in modern workstation disk drives you have something called > spindle sync. Well, when you set up spindle sync you have 2 modeselect > values you tweak. One bit says who is the sync master and who are > the sync slaves. Then for each slave drive you tweak another value > that is used to offset the spindles from perfect sync so that the I/O > of block zero of a track on drive 0 of a stripe set has just finished > the scsi bus transfer when block zero of a track on drive 1 is about to > come under the heads. One assumes that stripes will not cross cylinder boundries in this case, since doing so would preterb a articular stripe but not all stripes, then? One also assumes that the head positioning on both drives is synchronized so as to induce any seek delays simultaneously? > I was in no way talking about ``rotdelay'' in the file system since, > I am still playing with raw devices at the block level, no file systems > have been built since the slice code kinda screwed me up for getting > labels on the things. Rotational delay refers to the location of the head relative to the sector address within the track, and is thus independent of file system code unless the file system itself attempts to compensate. Ideally, you'd want spindle-synced drives with identical geometries and knowledge of the sector offsets at which a seek will occur so that it can be avoided on both drives simultaneously. Finally, you'd want the rotation *advanced* by the stripe length -- a function of block placement on writes -- given that the advance in the rotation will force the entire stripe into cache as the drive begins reading before the end of the stripe with reverse ordered sectors. In effect, a file system wants to be a variable block store, and have the driver worry about issues like this and media perfections, etc. Most file systems are not written this way, even "advanced" file systems like vxfs (Veritas), hpfs, and ntfs. The net effect on this is that you can not guarantee stripes to be consecutive except for as many drives as you have in the set. > Already looking at those factors. I am given the fact that my drives > will be SCSI-II, will report the zone pages, etc. Without that stripe > sets are pretty stupid and can never be made to go fast. I have been > able to get to 85% of theorotical bandwidth, not bad, but want to sqeeze > that on up to 95% before I go looking at laying file systems on this > thing. I think that unless you do the logical equivalent of predictive branching (which it might be possible to precalculate at drive set initialization), you are going to be limited to an effective hash efficiency with an expotential fall-off at about 85% (Knuth: Sorting and Searching). The predictor you'd use to defeat this would be stripe prescheduling, for instance by precalculating values for skip lists rather than a pure hash. The 10% "reserve" in UFS is actually a soft hash-fill limit to keep it reasonably close to the hash cost/benefit falloff of 85% that was calculated by Taylor series expansion by Knuth. Again, UFS is only an example, as it was in rotdelay, since file systems shouldn't be doing this type of crap, it should be at the driver level. Another thing that you might want to play with is turning *off* SCSI sector replacement. This may seem counter-intuitive, but in fact you might be better off handling your own media perfection issues to ensure that you don't get an unexpected seek in a stripe set. You'd be better off avoiding the bad block entirely than replacing it and taking the replacement lookup hit. 8-). How do you deal with thermal variance? The "AV" drives don't try to compensate while they are "busy" and so are quite fragile in this regard. I haven't looked into what would be required to precompensate in the driver for recalibration delays, or if it's even something that's possible at all. It might be better in the long run to take the risk to avoid the delay if you really feel "the need for speed". > > Without the physical seek locations, any benchmarking will be rather > > arbitrary based on the layout you end up with for a particular test. > > To eliminate this very problem whilst I work on the technological ends > of things I am simply doing raw disk I/O starting at the same logical > drive on all spindles. Those do often end up in the same physical > location, and when I want the best numbers simply start at logical sector > 0 which will always be physically the same location on all spindles sans > whatever value I put into scsi mode page 4:Rotational Offset:. This would definitely ensure internal consistency; I was thinking more in terms of the results of particular stripe set builds, not necessarily the identical build each run. The results you get with the identical build will be drive/instance dependent even after spindle sync without seek optimization of some kind. I think going to the engineering lengths to implement every possible optimization is probably not worth it, though it's damn fun to try, or at least talk about. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 14:25:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA25223 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:25:55 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25215 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:25:47 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA12693; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:25:09 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508312125.OAA12693@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: kernel size To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:25:09 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508312007.NAA00476@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Aug 31, 95 01:07:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1106 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > > > I guess we can still compress the binaries in the mfs filesystem > > > > which would leave them still compressed when the kernel is decompressed, > > > > > > Already done! The crunched binary is, in turn, compressed. > not in -current it isn't..... > > > Can some one go try a ``boot -a'' with a 2.1-stable (last snap) floppy > > and see if you can change from the kernel floppy to the root floppy > > using this? I don't have one handy just now :-(. All my boot code > > on floppies is still 2.0R :-( :-(. > yes you can Okay, that should have solved 1/2 your problem for you, you can now use upto 1.2MB for the kernel, and you have 1.2MB to stuff binaries in. That is quite a lot of space given that your kernel can have gzip execution support in it. Though the distribution of gzip executing kernels in binary form is not a safe thing to do by the FreeBSD project do to copyright/GPL concerns of tainting the kernel I have. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 14:39:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA25956 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:39:04 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25946 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:39:02 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA12759; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:38:23 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508312138.OAA12759@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: kernel size To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508312012.NAA00493@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Aug 31, 95 01:11:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 573 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > Can some one go try a ``boot -a'' with a 2.1-stable (last snap) floppy > > and see if you can change from the kernel floppy to the root floppy > > using this? I don't have one handy just now :-(. All my boot code > > on floppies is still 2.0R :-( :-(. > > oops no you can't.. > it goes to MFS no-matter what you do..... Thats due to the kernel you loaded, splat a GENERIC kernel on the first floppy. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 14:48:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA26909 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:48:30 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA26902 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:48:24 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA12790; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:47:50 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199508312147.OAA12790@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.Org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199508311858.LAA16993@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Aug 31, 95 11:58:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3932 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk [I have trimmed the cc: all the way back to hackers] > >> > >> >Now, can you all leave me alone for 30 days so I can go get the stripes > >> >working, I have small bottleneck that needs fixed :-):-):-) And can > >> >anyone tell me what the mean and standard deviation of an I/O request to > >> >an aic7870 is before it hits the drive given 0 scsi bus contention? This > >> >seems to greatly effect rotation offset on stripe sets when pushed to > >> >the limits of data coming under the head just after the I/O hits the > >> >drive. > >> > >> Hmm. You'd have to come up with some way to benchmark it since its very > >> dependant on the sequencer code. I'd be interested to here what your > >> results were. :) > > > >:-). How much control do you have over the controller LED in the sequencer > >code? Would it be possible to wink it when an I/O CCB comes in from the > >host, and then double wink it when it goes out the scsi bus? Or am I > >going to have to find a 128 channel logic analyzer and pull my hair out > >for a week to try and capture this :-). > > You could do it in about four lines of total code change. First, you'd > have to leave the led in diagnostic mode: > > The two high bits of SBLKCTL control the led: > > #define DIAGLEDEN 0x80 > #define DIAGLEDON 0x40 > > They are initially cleared by the mask on line 1871 of -current's > aic7xxx.c. Just or back in the diaglen bit on line 1898. > > outb(SBLKCTL + iobase, sblkctl | DIAGLENEN); WAY COOL!! Just what I was looking for!! THANKS!! > Now as far as making it blink, either the kernel driver can manipulate > it via an outb, or you can use any of the or,xor,and sequencer instructions > to manipulate the led. Where to do the triggering depends on what exactly > you want to measure. If you want to time how long it takes for the > sequencer program to pull an entry off the queue, successfully arbitrate, > and go to data_phase (probably the most meaningful benchmark), I'd turn > the led on at line 291 in aic7xxx.seq, and turn off the led somewhere in > the p_dataout: and p_datain: cases. You hit the nail on the head for what I need to measure. > You may also want to double wink the > led if you get a reconnect so that you can differentiate the case when > you lose arbitration to a reconnecting target. As you can see, you > can do a lot with that little led. Don't need to, no one can reselect, there is only 1 disk on the scsi bus in the prototype 2 drive 2 controller base line. I did that to eliminate all contention situations while studing the rotation offset problem and zone size effects. I need to clearly see when each bus goes to data phase so I can understand how the I/O's get processed etc, etc. > >> So, are you planning on using a 3940W for this type of application? > > > >Possibly, prototypes are NCR 825 and aha2940W right now... > > Remeber that the 3940 allows up to 255 queued commands as oposed to > the 16 of the 2940W. As soon as we get better queuing code into > FreeBSD, this will make a difference. Actually I would like to turn off queued commands for the time being, is there an easy way to do that (I have not been delving into the aic code like I should be if I need to ask that one, but since I have your attention any way :-). I need to fully evaluate very simple systems to understand how things are going to behave, and complications like having the controller stacking up queued I/O's on me is going to confuse me looking at timing with respect to when the host releases the I/O in the driver (right now I have a bit to watch on the scope when the stripe layer drops the I/O to the driver layer and then watch the busy bit on the scsi bus, command queueing in the controller is screwing me correlationg the two events :-(). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 15:11:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA28861 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:11:14 -0700 Received: from npd.ufsc.br (npd.ufsc.br [150.162.1.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA28731 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:08:34 -0700 Received: from mtm (mtm.ufsc.br [150.162.1.32]) by npd.ufsc.br (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA15474; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 19:03:31 -0500 Received: by mtm (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03877; Thu, 31 Aug 95 19:06:42 EST Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 19:06:41 -0300 (EST) From: lenzi X-Sender: lenzi@mtm To: Wilko Bulte Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Test/Release cycle. In-Reply-To: <199508311808.UAA01379@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have been using FreeBSD release 2.0 since dec. 1994 in several VIDEO shops The machines varies from 386-DX-40 with 8Mb to 386-SX-33 with 4Mb The software is written in C, using an ingres data base with tables sizing 15,000 entries (40Mb) of data bases. The system replaces UnixWare that was becoming very slow... I am now writing the video system using 2.0.5 and TCl/TK accessing a Postgres95 database. The beta release showed faster and has a nicer user interface. Besides, is client server, that is You are client of the company not the video store. I'm very satisfied with the system... And intend to build a lot of user/commerce programs on it. Lenzi, Sergio email: lenzi@mtm.ufsc.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 15:21:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA29442 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:21:59 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA29434 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:21:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199508312221.PAA29434@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: 4GB Drives In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 95 14:47:50 PDT." <199508312147.OAA12790@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:21:57 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >You hit the nail on the head for what I need to measure. > >> You may also want to double wink the >> led if you get a reconnect so that you can differentiate the case when >> you lose arbitration to a reconnecting target. As you can see, you >> can do a lot with that little led. > >Don't need to, no one can reselect, there is only 1 disk on the >scsi bus in the prototype 2 drive 2 controller base line. I did that >to eliminate all contention situations while studing the rotation offset >problem and zone size effects. I need to clearly see when each bus goes >to data phase so I can understand how the I/O's get processed etc, etc. Right, but with tagged queuing enabled, the drive you want to talk to may reconnect for a prior I/O just as you start selection so it can happen even in a single disk configuration. >> >> So, are you planning on using a 3940W for this type of application? >> > >> >Possibly, prototypes are NCR 825 and aha2940W right now... >> >> Remeber that the 3940 allows up to 255 queued commands as oposed to >> the 16 of the 2940W. As soon as we get better queuing code into >> FreeBSD, this will make a difference. > >Actually I would like to turn off queued commands for the time being, >is there an easy way to do that (I have not been delving into the aic >code like I should be if I need to ask that one, but since I have your >attention any way :-). Just don't enable it. Its a kernel config option (AHC_TAGENABLE). One thing to watch out for is that even without tagged queuing, you can get up to two requests per target sitting on the board. You'll have to blink something when the command that gets taken off the queue is for a target that has an active command pending since it will re-queue the transaction in that case. This will happen when the first transaction to the disk disconnects to do the seek. >I need to fully evaluate very simple systems to understand how things >are going to behave, and complications like having the controller stacking >up queued I/O's on me is going to confuse me looking at timing with respect >to when the host releases the I/O in the driver (right now I have a bit >to watch on the scope when the stripe layer drops the I/O to the driver >layer and then watch the busy bit on the scsi bus, command queueing in >the controller is screwing me correlationg the two events :-(). Understood. > > >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 16:24:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA01142 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:24:54 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01136 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:24:52 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA01188; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:21:42 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508312321.QAA01188@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: can swap space be shared with other OSes? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508311715.KAA22960@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Aug 31, 95 10:15:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1183 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > While I'm working with partitions, I also want to be able to recognize > > bsd disk slices as several devices (and perhaps port a ffs driver to > > linux). (I already hacked up the linux fdisk to recognize bsd partitions). > > > > Can the swap space for bsd be shared by bsd/windows/linux? > > > > There's a strategy for sharing swap space on linux/windows... > > There's a similar one for BSD: mount the DOS drive, configure a vn device > using vnconfig, and use it as swap. > > I believe a similar scheme would work for an unknown partition ID, for > instance the Linux swap -- assuming each DOS partition gets a logical > device regardless of whether we recognize the ID or not. This is > something that should be done if it hasn't been already. I believe it will work.. swapon /dev/sd0s3 would swap onto the 3rd slice... if that was the linux swap slice..... > > > > Also, is there interest in getting an ext2 driver on freebsd (to read > > linux partitions). > > I believe someone is working on this and recently reported some success > to the -current list (that might have been you, though, so if it was, no it was I believe John Dyson.. > then "yes!"). > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 16:49:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA01831 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:49:32 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01825 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:49:31 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA01234; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:48:58 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199508312348.QAA01234@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2.1.0 To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Aug 30, 95 01:46:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 323 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > 2) For similar reasons, I believe ncurses is a far superior replacement to [...] > curses officially dead, and is recommending NCurses 1.9.x now. ncurses is available with freeBSD. we're being conservative about making it standard, but you can link with it by simply specifying ncurses instead of curses.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 17:19:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA02417 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:19:08 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02409 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:19:05 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA13189; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:18:37 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199509010018.RAA13189@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508312221.PAA29434@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Aug 31, 95 03:21:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2536 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk ... > >Actually I would like to turn off queued commands for the time being, > >is there an easy way to do that (I have not been delving into the aic > >code like I should be if I need to ask that one, but since I have your > >attention any way :-). > > Just don't enable it. Its a kernel config option (AHC_TAGENABLE). I am not concerned about the drive queueing things up, that is past the point I am trying to analyze right now. More below (I already don't have AHC_TAGENABLE) in my kernel. > One thing to watch out for is that even without tagged queuing, you > can get up to two requests per target sitting on the board. You'll Those are the 2 I need to eliminate for my analysis. Any quick dirty hack I can do to turn them off? > have to blink something when the command that gets taken off the queue > is for a target that has an active command pending since it will re-queue > the transaction in that case. This will happen when the first transaction > to the disk disconnects to do the seek. Test case has already eliminated all seeks. Seeks do not occur as my total transfer is smaller than 1 cylinder * stripe width. I am trying to find the proper parameters and emperical data to improve my theoritcal caclulations and formulas. I can't find the errors in these algorithms without some correlation to real measured data to find the bad assumptions in them :-(. The data I need is being very difficult to obtain without spending major dollars on a scsi bus analyzer and a large logic analyzer :-(. I guess I could go out to the labs some weekend, but it is a pain to check in this much equipment. > >I need to fully evaluate very simple systems to understand how things > >are going to behave, and complications like having the controller stacking > >up queued I/O's on me is going to confuse me looking at timing with respect > >to when the host releases the I/O in the driver (right now I have a bit > >to watch on the scope when the stripe layer drops the I/O to the driver > >layer and then watch the busy bit on the scsi bus, command queueing in > >the controller is screwing me correlationg the two events :-(). > > Understood. So can you help me ``dumb down'' a bit of the smarts in the aha2940 driver, ie, kill that last 2 deep queue? It might explain a major descrepancy between my algorithms and what I am currently seeing actually occur. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 17:22:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA02535 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:22:43 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02528 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:22:40 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA29796 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:22:35 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA16136 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:22:34 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA27457 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:21:00 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508312021.WAA27457@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:20:58 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Aug 31, 95 03:43:14 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 665 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Brian Tao wrote: > > > In the past I've been involved in some projects where pid collisions > > due to pid wrap was a problem. > > Oh hmmmm, wow... doesn't FreeBSD have a global process limit of > some sort? I know I've seen "No more processes" on BSD/OS and SunOS > systems, even though the user maxproc limit had not been reached. That's not the problem. The actual problem are long-living processes that cause collisions since you expect temp files like /foo/bar/file. to be unique within the system. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 17:22:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA02566 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:22:48 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02547 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:22:45 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA29805 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:22:41 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA16142 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:22:40 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA28350 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:45:26 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199508312045.WAA28350@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: kernel size To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:45:25 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9643.809873833@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 31, 95 05:57:13 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 729 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Well, we can't build a fixit floppy no since nobody has gone in and > tried to reasonably trim down the list of things jammed into fixit. I've built a fixit.flp yesterday that has been exceeding the 1200 KB watermark by only 40 KB. It easily fit onto a 1440 KB however. Not a too bad start. There've been some items missing (e.g. ft(8)), but some other things are certainly unnecessary on a fixit floppy. All this happened with the default /usr/src/release/Makefile, with the exception of bumping the 1200 figures to 1440 after the first failure. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 17:30:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA02987 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:30:32 -0700 Received: from Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (Wit401402.student.utwente.nl [130.89.236.162]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02980 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:30:27 -0700 Received: (from alain@localhost) by Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA01533; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:30:16 +0200 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:30:15 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alain Kalker Reply-To: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl To: Wilko Bulte cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming In-Reply-To: <199508301854.UAA01581@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Wilko Bulte wrote: > But serious: I last week I converted a potential Linux user to > FreeBSD. The install was simple but for the *&^*( mouse port > he called me to ask what he should use. > Maybe I have found a pointer to a source for some of this confusion: When xf86config (run from sysinstall) asks the user to specify which device file to use for the mouse, both suggestions for common names it gives ('/dev/tty00' and '/dev/mouse') are not valid in the current situation of FreeBSD... Just my 5 cents (cents have long ago gone out in this country :-) ) --- Alain From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 17:34:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA03140 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:34:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA03131 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:34:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199509010034.RAA03131@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4GB Drives In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 95 17:18:37 PDT." <199509010018.RAA13189@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:34:16 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> One thing to watch out for is that even without tagged queuing, you >> can get up to two requests per target sitting on the board. You'll > >Those are the 2 I need to eliminate for my analysis. Any quick dirty >hack I can do to turn them off? Then set the number of commands that the scsi system is allowed to queue to 1 instead of 2. Look on line 882 of aic7xxx.c: ahc->sc_link.opennings = 2; Should be changed to 1. >> have to blink something when the command that gets taken off the queue >> is for a target that has an active command pending since it will re-queue >> the transaction in that case. This will happen when the first transaction >> to the disk disconnects to do the seek. > >Test case has already eliminated all seeks. Seeks do not occur as my total >transfer is smaller than 1 cylinder * stripe width. I am trying to find >the proper parameters and emperical data to improve my theoritcal caclulations >and formulas. I can't find the errors in these algorithms without some >correlation to real measured data to find the bad assumptions in them :-(. Hmm. Are you sure that the drive will not disconnect even for a short time after receiving its command? >The data I need is being very difficult to obtain without spending major >dollars on a scsi bus analyzer and a large logic analyzer :-(. I guess >I could go out to the labs some weekend, but it is a pain to check in this >much equipment. I would think that a scope attached to the led line would be sufficient for most of the timing. >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 17:51:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA03521 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:51:33 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03515 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:51:31 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA13303; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:51:02 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199509010051.RAA13303@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509010034.RAA03131@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Aug 31, 95 05:34:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2225 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >> One thing to watch out for is that even without tagged queuing, you > >> can get up to two requests per target sitting on the board. You'll > > > >Those are the 2 I need to eliminate for my analysis. Any quick dirty > >hack I can do to turn them off? > > Then set the number of commands that the scsi system is allowed to queue > to 1 instead of 2. Look on line 882 of aic7xxx.c: > > ahc->sc_link.opennings = 2; > > Should be changed to 1. THANKS!! Finding that stuff buried in all the scsi code is painful. > >> have to blink something when the command that gets taken off the queue > >> is for a target that has an active command pending since it will re-queue > >> the transaction in that case. This will happen when the first transaction > >> to the disk disconnects to do the seek. > > > >Test case has already eliminated all seeks. Seeks do not occur as my total > >transfer is smaller than 1 cylinder * stripe width. I am trying to find > >the proper parameters and emperical data to improve my theoritcal caclulations > >and formulas. I can't find the errors in these algorithms without some > >correlation to real measured data to find the bad assumptions in them :-(. > > Hmm. Are you sure that the drive will not disconnect even for a short time > after receiving its command? Darn sure, I effectivly disabled disconnect/reconnect by tweaking the buffer full/empty ratios and a few other parameters in mode page 2. > >The data I need is being very difficult to obtain without spending major > >dollars on a scsi bus analyzer and a large logic analyzer :-(. I guess > >I could go out to the labs some weekend, but it is a pain to check in this > >much equipment. > > I would think that a scope attached to the led line would be sufficient > for most of the timing. Yes, it should be, but if I have things like command queueing occuring I can not correlate the edge created in the stripe layer with the edge created by the LED, it may be skewed by 1 cycle. Or I could go get a $10k storage scope and use single events :-). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 17:55:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA03655 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:55:56 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03649 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:55:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA12733; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:54:04 -0700 To: Julian Elischer cc: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2.1.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:48:58 PDT." <199508312348.QAA01234@ref.tfs.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:54:03 -0700 Message-ID: <12730.809916843@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > ncurses is available with freeBSD. > we're being conservative about making it standard, but you > can link with it by simply specifying ncurses instead of curses.. Not the ncurses he was talking about, which is substantially different. You should read these things more carefully. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 17:57:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA03753 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:57:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA03740 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:57:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199509010057.RAA03740@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4GB Drives In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 95 17:51:02 PDT." <199509010051.RAA13303@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:57:02 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Hmm. Are you sure that the drive will not disconnect even for a short time >> after receiving its command? > >Darn sure, I effectivly disabled disconnect/reconnect by tweaking the >buffer full/empty ratios and a few other parameters in mode page 2. Why not just turn off disconnections in SCSI-Select? :) >> >The data I need is being very difficult to obtain without spending major >> >dollars on a scsi bus analyzer and a large logic analyzer :-(. I guess >> >I could go out to the labs some weekend, but it is a pain to check in this >> >much equipment. >> >> I would think that a scope attached to the led line would be sufficient >> for most of the timing. > >Yes, it should be, but if I have things like command queueing occuring I >can not correlate the edge created in the stripe layer with the edge >created by the LED, it may be skewed by 1 cycle. Or I could go get a >$10k storage scope and use single events :-). You will need to pause the sequencer in order to change the status of the led anyway if you do it from the kernel, so the edges should be distinguishable between kernel blinks and sequencer blinks. >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 18:05:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA03943 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:05:14 -0700 Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA03935 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:05:12 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA00383; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:04:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199509010104.SAA00383@precipice.shockwave.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: davidg@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org Subject: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:04:33 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm a western digital biggot, and have historically stayed away from NE2000 cards, but I have a need to put together about 10 systems for some emergency radio work I'm doing and I wanted to get some newer opinions on the cards and the driver state, given the price difference between the two designs. Is the ed/NE2000 flavor of the driver reliable now? Overruns? What kind of performance can I expect to see on a NE2000 vs a 16 bit SMC card when running FreeBSD? e.g. would you dare build a diskless NFS client with a NE2000 clone? Thanks, Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 18:10:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA04095 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:10:43 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA04089 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:10:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA12840; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:08:15 -0700 To: Paul Traina cc: hackers@freebsd.org, davidg@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:04:33 PDT." <199509010104.SAA00383@precipice.shockwave.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:08:15 -0700 Message-ID: <12837.809917695@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > e.g. would you dare build a diskless NFS client with a NE2000 clone? Yes, I probably would. They seem to give comparable performance to the WD cards, just with more CPU overhead in the process. David would know better, of course, having written the driver. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 18:12:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA04154 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:12:33 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA04148 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:12:32 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA01410 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:12:31 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509010112.SAA01410@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: kernel size To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:12:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199508312045.WAA28350@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Aug 31, 95 10:45:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 856 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Well, we can't build a fixit floppy no since nobody has gone in and > > tried to reasonably trim down the list of things jammed into fixit. > > I've built a fixit.flp yesterday that has been exceeding the 1200 KB > watermark by only 40 KB. It easily fit onto a 1440 KB however. > > Not a too bad start. > > There've been some items missing (e.g. ft(8)), but some other things > are certainly unnecessary on a fixit floppy. > > All this happened with the default /usr/src/release/Makefile, with the > exception of bumping the 1200 figures to 1440 after the first failure. yeah I built one too, but it's not an MFS kernel.. gotta work on that part :) > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 18:14:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA04245 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:14:20 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA04239 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:14:19 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA01418; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:14:13 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509010114.SAA01418@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2.1.0 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <12730.809916843@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 31, 95 05:54:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 476 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > ncurses is available with freeBSD. > > we're being conservative about making it standard, but you > > can link with it by simply specifying ncurses instead of curses.. > > Not the ncurses he was talking about, which is substantially > different. You should read these things more carefully. I saw a comment about commits to it yesterday.. looked like the same one to me.. (same (1.9) version number.. same tinfo database.. maybe I was wrong.. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 18:33:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA04719 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:33:16 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA04713 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:33:13 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA23721; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:32:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA22213; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:34:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199509010134.SAA22213@corbin.Root.COM> To: Paul Traina cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 95 18:04:33 PDT." <199509010104.SAA00383@precipice.shockwave.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:34:01 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I'm a western digital biggot, and have historically stayed away from >NE2000 cards, but I have a need to put together about 10 systems for >some emergency radio work I'm doing and I wanted to get some newer >opinions on the cards and the driver state, given the price difference >between the two designs. > >Is the ed/NE2000 flavor of the driver reliable now? Overruns? It's reliable. It has been for more than a year. >What kind of performance can I expect to see on a NE2000 vs a 16 bit SMC card >when running FreeBSD? > >e.g. would you dare build a diskless NFS client with a NE2000 clone? It will require twice the CPU, and in some extreme cases, this might be enough to cause it to drop a packet. ...but normally it will work fine. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 18:59:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA05358 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:59:07 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA05351 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:59:04 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA13422; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:58:39 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199509010158.SAA13422@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509010057.RAA03740@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Aug 31, 95 05:57:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1560 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >> Hmm. Are you sure that the drive will not disconnect even for a short time > >> after receiving its command? > > > >Darn sure, I effectivly disabled disconnect/reconnect by tweaking the > >buffer full/empty ratios and a few other parameters in mode page 2. > > Why not just turn off disconnections in SCSI-Select? :) Because I can't do that on an NCR 53C825 :-). > >> >The data I need is being very difficult to obtain without spending major > >> >dollars on a scsi bus analyzer and a large logic analyzer :-(. I guess > >> >I could go out to the labs some weekend, but it is a pain to check in this > >> >much equipment. > >> > >> I would think that a scope attached to the led line would be sufficient > >> for most of the timing. > > > >Yes, it should be, but if I have things like command queueing occuring I > >can not correlate the edge created in the stripe layer with the edge > >created by the LED, it may be skewed by 1 cycle. Or I could go get a > >$10k storage scope and use single events :-). > > You will need to pause the sequencer in order to change the status > of the led anyway if you do it from the kernel, so the edges should > be distinguishable between kernel blinks and sequencer blinks. I well be blinking the controller LED from the sequencer, not the kernel, I have lots of blinking signals from the kernel, I have 8 x 16 bits worth of them if I so desire :-). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 19:27:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA06210 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 19:27:19 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA06202 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 19:27:16 -0700 Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA29149; Thu, 31 Aug 95 22:26:44 -0400 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id WAA06487; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:26:43 -0400 Message-Id: <199509010226.WAA06487@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: fdisk in 2.1.0--SNAP is broken Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:26:43 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Got the 2.1.0--SNAP running earlier this evening. Only used it for a couple of hours -- long enough to rebuild the kernel with the busmouse turned on and ftp over the man pages that I forget to get in the install. But... Using fdisk I'm unable to set my OS/2 HPFS partition as bootable. I've got to boot on a floppy, set the boot partition, and then reboot to get back to OS/2. This was not true of the 1.1.5.1 fdisk. Someone will no doubt suggest using Booteasy or BootManager, which would no doubt work, but not the point, fdisk should work. I might try to fix it. I bet having the source to the 1.1.5.1 fdisk might make it easier, or it might not. Separate Subject: someone said a newer 2.1.0 snap was imminent. I'll switch to that when it's available. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 20:01:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA07373 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:01:59 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA07365 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:01:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199509010301.UAA07365@freefall.FreeBSD.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.FreeBSD.org: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4GB Drives In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 95 18:58:38 PDT." <199509010158.SAA13422@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:01:55 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >> Hmm. Are you sure that the drive will not disconnect even for a short ti >me >> >> after receiving its command? >> > >> >Darn sure, I effectivly disabled disconnect/reconnect by tweaking the >> >buffer full/empty ratios and a few other parameters in mode page 2. >> >> Why not just turn off disconnections in SCSI-Select? :) > >Because I can't do that on an NCR 53C825 :-). Ahh. Can't help you there. There was a time when the aic7xxx driver had slightly slower per transaction times than the NCR cards, but then I realized that I was still bzeroing SCB structures for each command. Although when the driver first started, an SCB entry was only 32 bytes big, now the SCB holds almost 2k of data (each SCB has an array of 255 SG segments as well as other book-keeping info) and the bzero was totally unnecessary. Needless to say, after I realized my mistake, the transaction times fell through the floor. I'll think you'll be plesantly surprised with the performance of the aic7xxx driver especially for your particular application. >> You will need to pause the sequencer in order to change the status >> of the led anyway if you do it from the kernel, so the edges should >> be distinguishable between kernel blinks and sequencer blinks. > >I well be blinking the controller LED from the sequencer, not the kernel, >I have lots of blinking signals from the kernel, I have 8 x 16 bits worth >of them if I so desire :-). :) > >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 20:02:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA07450 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:02:56 -0700 Received: from relay4.UU.NET (relay4.UU.NET [192.48.96.14]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA07443 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:02:55 -0700 Received: from ast.com by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzfge26087; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 23:03:00 -0400 Received: from trsvax.fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com) by ast.com with SMTP id AA09010 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:03:58 -0700 Received: by trsvax.fw.ast.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.1) id ; Thu, 31 Aug 95 22:04 CDT Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #18) id m0soMMh-0004vyC; Thu, 31 Aug 95 22:01 CDT Message-Id: Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 22:01 CDT To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Thu Aug 31 1995, 22:01:59 CDT Subject: Re: How to abort a DMA transfer? Cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [0]Yes, as long as `single mode' is appropriate for you, there's no need [0]to worry about TC. TC is intented for continuous mode. Well, i've [0]just noticed that the PC DMAC cannot even generate an interrupt when [0]ready... hmm, go figure, the Z80 DMAC did it. :) [0] [0]And yes, for `single mode', the masking trick will do it. The [0]peripheral device will issue a DRQ signal for each transfered [0]byte/word, and masking would prevent the DMAC from accepting new DRQs [0]for this channel. Aborting a continuous mode transfer would not be so [0]easy (or even impossible at all). Actually, masking is the correct procedure for all transfer modes on the 8237, even autoinit mode, which is frequently used for audio operations since it allows seamless DMA transfers with no under/overruns. You are generally correct about TC. All the TC signal does is when the counter on any channel in the DMA controller goes from one to zero, TC is asserted. What the peripherals are supposed to if they want to generate an interrupt when the transfer is through, is that peripheral device is supposed to look at (-DACK%d && TC && DEVICE_DMA_ACTIVE) and then latch an IRQ%d for the 8259 interrupt controller. Since there is only one TC signal, it is important that only the peripheral who is transferring data at that moment honor the TC signal. The host CPU will eventually investigate the interrupt by having some driver poll the hardware associated with the peripheral, NOT the DMA controller. If a peripheral doesn't want an interrupt associated with the DMA counter reaching zero, it doesn't implement the circuitry to monitor TC. Some sound cards realize that when the TC hits zero it means the DMA is now idle and that is really too late, so they don't use TC and instead allow the driver to program in a local counter value, which is usually set lower than the value programmed into the DMA. This means the peripheral can interrupt the CPU in advance of the DMA "running dry", allowing the CPU to be ready to reprogram the DMA the instant it finishes what it is doing, rather than incurring the latency later. This also means that two or more different devices could share a DMA channel, by tristating DRQ%d when idle and only honoring -DACK%d when the device knows it is expecting the DMA to go active. (Iomega PC2B boards forgot this minor point and will transfer data even if they are not supposed to.) So, if you want to abort a 8237 DMA transfer of any kind, simply mask the bit for that DMA channel in the 8237. Note: You can't interrupt an individual transfer (byte or burst) in progress. Think about it... if the DMA is running, how is your OUT instruction going to be performed? The CPU has to be bus master for the OUT to be performed. Since the 8237 DMA re-evaluates DMA channel priorities constantly, even if the DMA had already asserted HOLD (to request the bus from the CPU) when the OUT actually took place, the processor would still grant the bus to the DMA controller. The DMA controller would look for the highest-priority DMA source remaining (your interrupt is masked now) at that instant, and if none remained, the DMA will release HOLD and the processor will get the bus back after a few clocks. There is a deadly race condition in this area, but if I remember right, you can't get into it via mis-programming the DMA, UNLESS you cause the DMA controller to be RESET. You should not do this. Effectively the CPU can give up the bus and the DMA doesn't do anything, including giving the bus back. Very annoying and after 16msec or so, all is over since refresh on main memory has started failing. So, mask the DMA controller, then go do what you have to do to get the transfer aborted in the peripheral hardware. In some extremely stupid hardware (I could mention a few), you may have to program the DMA to transfer one more byte to a garbage target to get the peripheral hardware to go back to an idle state. Most hardware these days isn't that stupid. Technically, you are supposed to mask the DMA channel, program the other settings (direction, address, length, etc), issue commands to the peripheral and then unmask the DMA channel once the peripheral commands have been accepted. The last two steps can be done out of order without harm, but you must always program the DMA channel while it is masked to avoid spraying data all over the place in the event the peripheral unexpected asserts DRQ%d. If you need to pad-out an aborted buffer, once you have masked the DMA, you can ask it how many bytes it still had to go and what address it was to write to next. Your driver can then fill in the remaining area or do what needs to be done. Don't forget that the 8237 was designed for use with the 8085 and really isn't suited to the job that IBM gave it in the original PC. That's why the upper eight bits of DMA addressing appear to be lashed-on. They are. Look at the schematics of the original PC and you will the upper bits are kept in external latches that are enabled whenever the DMA is too. Very kludgy. Frank Durda IV |"How do I know? or uhclem%nemesis@fw.ast.com (Fastest Route)| The 8237 is my fiend, no I ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem | mean it's my friend, well... ...decvax!fw.ast.com!nemesis!uhclem | maybe I had it right earlier." From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 20:43:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA09606 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:43:18 -0700 Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA09599 ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:43:14 -0700 Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA21017; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:42:13 -0500 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:42:04 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Coranth Gryphon cc: hackers@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Handbook ToDo... In-Reply-To: <199508290329.XAA27927@healer.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 28 Aug 1995, Coranth Gryphon wrote: > Ok. I'll take "Basic Networking", and "Gateways and Routes". I'm getting a little disorganized here, did I reply to this already? If so, please forgive me... > What level of technical detail (or what volume of text) do we want? I guess we should assume that the reader knows what a network is. Maybe a paragraph summarizing that tcp/ip is the network protocol used by the Internet in general and FreeBSD in particular. That leads nicely into a description of what information the user needs to know (ip number, netmask, default router, nameserver etc). For "basic" networking, explain how things are done via sysinstall. Then maybe a brief tour of the most important network administration and diagnostic tools (ifconfig, netstat, ping, nslookup). The idea is to get a user in a fairly typical network environment up and running with minimal fuss. The other idea is to provide pointers to subsequent sections (some not yet written) for getting setup in more tricky situations such as SLIP and PPP connections. Gateways and routers? Well, I have read about them, but not having any direct work configuring/debugging I must say that the reading didn't sink in very deep. :) -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 22:49:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA14073 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:49:38 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA14067 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:49:37 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA24019; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:48:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA22460; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:50:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199509010550.WAA22460@corbin.Root.COM> To: Paul Traina cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 95 22:45:53 PDT." <199509010545.WAA00995@precipice.shockwave.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:50:29 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > From: David Greenman > Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? > > It will require twice the CPU, and in some extreme cases, this might be > enough to cause it to drop a packet. ...but normally it will work fine. > >Yeah, I just looked at the driver and saw the programmed IO cruft in there >to deal with the novell cards. Bummer. Someone mentioned that some of the >cards really do have shared memory and can run just like the SMC and 3COM. >Do you know anything about this? I seem to recall the the NE2100's have this ability, but there isn't support for it in the driver. I don't have any programming information for it and haven't had the time or interest in trying to acquire it. ...but the NE2000 doesn't have shared memory support; only programmed I/O. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 22:58:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA15701 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:58:15 -0700 Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA15694 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:58:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA00995; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:45:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199509010545.WAA00995@precipice.shockwave.com> To: davidg@Root.COM cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:34:01 PDT." <199509010134.SAA22213@corbin.Root.COM> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:45:53 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: David Greenman Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? It will require twice the CPU, and in some extreme cases, this might be enough to cause it to drop a packet. ...but normally it will work fine. Yeah, I just looked at the driver and saw the programmed IO cruft in there to deal with the novell cards. Bummer. Someone mentioned that some of the cards really do have shared memory and can run just like the SMC and 3COM. Do you know anything about this? Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Aug 31 23:22:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA18566 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 23:22:48 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA18558 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 23:22:43 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA10102; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:22:30 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA17733; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:22:30 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA02594; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:22:03 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509010622.IAA02594@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: fdisk in 2.1.0--SNAP is broken To: kaleb@x.org (Kaleb S. KEITHLEY) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:22:01 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509010226.WAA06487@exalt.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Aug 31, 95 10:26:43 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 308 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > But... Using fdisk I'm unable to set my OS/2 HPFS partition as bootable. fdisk -u -a /dev/r[sw]d0 (Don't use the `d' parititon.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 00:06:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA19465 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:06:48 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA19457 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:06:38 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA31341; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:01:07 +1000 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:01:07 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509010701.RAA31341@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidg@Root.COM, pst@shockwave.com Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>What kind of performance can I expect to see on a NE2000 vs a 16 bit SMC card >>when running FreeBSD? >> >>e.g. would you dare build a diskless NFS client with a NE2000 clone? > It will require twice the CPU, and in some extreme cases, this might be >enough to cause it to drop a packet. ...but normally it will work fine. I.e., it would require about 100% of the cpu instead of only about 50%. This is very dependent on the number of wait states for the ISA bus. I use NE2000/WD8013EBT clones in WD mode and see the following overheads: 486DX2/66 ttcp -t: 21% Sys 51% Intr 486DX /33 ttcp -t: 29% Sys 51% Intr 486DX2/66 ttcp -r: 17% Sys 52% Intr 1094.78 KB/sec 486DX /33 ttcp -r: 22% Sys 58% Intr 1098.10 KB/sec In NE2000 mode the interrupt overhead goes up enough for at least the DX/33 to run out of cycles - 100% of the cpu is used and the speed drops to about 1000 KB/sec. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 00:33:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA19979 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:33:02 -0700 Received: from chrome.onramp.net (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA19973 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:33:00 -0700 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.onramp.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA07281 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:32:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199509010732.CAA07281@chrome.onramp.net> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.onramp.net: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Guess what? More ATAPI questions... Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 02:32:09 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well folks, I'm not getting too much further into solving the ATAPI problems, but I've not given up yet... I've now also read through the better part of the ATAPI driver from the other camp too, and I now think I have a better understanding of what should be going on. I think I can explain the apparent "double interrupt" now. Here's the sequence of events as *I* think they should happen: - Decide to issue a MODE_SENSE request with immediate answers as a packet command. - Start a packet command - set up port's register set to expect a packet command upon writing the AR_COMMAND port, the drive is now expecting the driver to send it the packet command. - Drive acknowledges its willingness to accept the command by doing the interrupt thang - Meanwhile, the driver hit atapi_io() waiting for that interrupt - atapi_io() correctly hits PHASE_CMDOUT and calls atapi_send_cmd() - Wait for the controller to go idle - Write the packet control info to the ports ==> This step is different in the FreeBSD code and the L-word camp <== They *also* write a control word to the 0x3f6 port where we do NOT. I have no idea if this is critical or not, but, it appears to me to have something to do with "reseting" the status bits. Hmmm.... Continuing. It gets real fuzzy here, and I could easily be making this up... - Our code then waits for the next interrupt in atapi_io(), expecting the results, I think, of the MODE_SENSE. - However, due to potentially bad or not-reset status, we get a bad interrupt reason and things degenerate. Are we supposed to get another interrupt at the end of the command transfer? Manipulation of the Device Control Register (0x3f6) seems to be totally missing from this ATAPI code. It's that handling of things like section 6.3.10 and 7.2.6 of the ATA Spec rev 4c that appears to be missing. Here's the debug trace: mode capabilites len 24 sense page bytes atapi1.0: req im 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 len=24 atapi1.0: start atapi1.0: intr ireason=0x1, len=24, status=48, error=0 atapi1.0: phase cmdout atapi1.0: send cmd 5a-0-2a-0-0-0-0-0-18-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 atapi1.0: intr ireason=0x3, len=24, status=41, error=64 atapi1.0: phase complete wcd1: result of mode sense is code=100, error=0xf01df474 If we believe the error code = 64 that I see, the spec says: - UNC (Uncorrectable Data Error) indicates an uncorrectable data error has been encountered. Can anyone place more interpretation or insight into that problem? Actually, I noticed that the other camp's code does a couple of odd things with the error code. In particular, the fancy printing of an error code is guarded by a dev->type == disk test. Hmmm... Then, the routine ide_error() drops this hint: if (dev->type == disk && (stat & ERR_STAT)) { /* err has different meaning on cdrom */ if (err & BBD_ERR) /* retries won't help this! */ rq->errors = ERROR_MAX; else if (err & TRK0_ERR) /* help it find track zero */ rq->errors |= ERROR_RECAL; } Am I confused or what? Did anyone really read all this? jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 00:40:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA20182 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:40:26 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA20174 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:40:18 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA32626; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:29:56 +1000 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:29:56 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509010729.RAA32626@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidg@Root.COM, pst@shockwave.com Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Yeah, I just looked at the driver and saw the programmed IO cruft in there >to deal with the novell cards. Bummer. Someone mentioned that some of the >cards really do have shared memory and can run just like the SMC and 3COM. >Do you know anything about this? Shared memory on my NE2000/WD8013EBT card is 50% faster, but that isn't saying much. The driver spends half its time bcopying to the shared memory instead of more that half its time doing explicit i/o instructions. The speeds are something like: i/o instructions: 2MB/sec bcopy: 3MB/sec IDE disk controllers: 3.3MB/sec PIO mode 0 (or 1?) spec 8MHz ISA bus max: 4MB/sec Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 00:46:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA20378 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:46:35 -0700 Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA20370 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:46:31 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA00559; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:45:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199509010745.AAA00559@precipice.shockwave.com> To: Bruce Evans cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Sep 1995 17:29:56 +1000." <199509010729.RAA32626@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 00:45:10 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk OK, well it sounds like a 50-50 trade-off, these machines aren't going to be doing heavy ethernet operations, so the price savings ($25/card vs $100/card) is worth it (unless someone knows of a cheap source of WD cards in the SF bay area). Just out of curiosity, has anyone looked at low overhead high performance ethernet and fast ethernet cards? I actually care more about CPU loading than filling up a 10mb wire... on a 100mb wire, I start to worry. :-) Paul From: Bruce Evans Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? >Yeah, I just looked at the driver and saw the programmed IO cruft in there >to deal with the novell cards. Bummer. Someone mentioned that some of the >cards really do have shared memory and can run just like the SMC and 3COM. >Do you know anything about this? Shared memory on my NE2000/WD8013EBT card is 50% faster, but that isn't saying much. The driver spends half its time bcopying to the shared memory instead of more that half its time doing explicit i/o instructions. The speeds are something like: i/o instructions: 2MB/sec bcopy: 3MB/sec IDE disk controllers: 3.3MB/sec PIO mode 0 (or 1?) spec 8MHz ISA bus max: 4MB/sec Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 00:57:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA20605 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:57:52 -0700 Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA20598 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:57:46 -0700 Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id RAA14071; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:56:15 +1000 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199509010756.RAA14071@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:56:14 +1000 (EST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509010745.AAA00559@precipice.shockwave.com> from "Paul Traina" at Sep 1, 95 00:45:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 503 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Paul Traina writes: > OK, well it sounds like a 50-50 trade-off, these machines aren't going > to be doing heavy ethernet operations, so the price savings ($25/card vs > $100/card) is worth it (unless someone knows of a cheap source of WD cards > in the SF bay area). If you can get the right model (something which the local distributors don't seem to be able to fathom :-(), the Addtron AE-200-JL comes in a 8013EBT compatible form .. I was buying them here for << $A60 (~$US45) recently, michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 01:20:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA21580 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 01:20:10 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA21565 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 01:20:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA11766; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:06:21 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199509010806.KAA11766@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? To: imb@scgt.oz.au (michael butler) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:06:21 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: pst@shockwave.com, bde@zeta.org.au, davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509010756.RAA14071@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> from "michael butler" at Sep 1, 95 05:55:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 895 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Paul Traina writes: > > > OK, well it sounds like a 50-50 trade-off, these machines aren't going > > to be doing heavy ethernet operations, so the price savings ($25/card vs > > $100/card) is worth it (unless someone knows of a cheap source of WD cards > > in the SF bay area). To jump in... some NE2000 cards have a NE2000+ mode where they use shared memory, and I can get them here for about 60.000 lire (US$40). The problem is, not even Russ Nelson seems to know how to use that feature! Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 01:24:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA21673 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 01:24:28 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA21667 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 01:24:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03777 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:23:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: problems with programs being swaped out!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:55:13 PDT." <199508311456.HAA07389@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:23:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3775.809810607@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > [...] My initial impression > is that it is not optimal to free the pages from swap all of the > time when paging pages in (esp for typically configured non-vm starved > systems.) but it would help an implementation of "swapoff" or "swap -d". -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 01:29:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA21786 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 01:29:11 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA21778 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 01:29:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03809; Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:25:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kernel size In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:57:53 PDT." <199508312057.NAA00679@ref.tfs.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 12:25:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3807.809810731@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I made one today > > look in the makefile.. > > release.8: write_mfs_in_kernel > @cd ${.CURDIR} && $(MAKE) ckRELEASEDIR > rm -rf ${RD}/mfsfd > mkdir ${RD}/mfsfd > cd ${RD}/mfsfd && \ > mkdir -p dev mnt stand/help > @cd ${.CURDIR} && $(MAKE) installCRUNCH CRUNCH=boot \ > DIR=${RD}/mfsfd/stand ZIP=false > > ^^^^^^^^^ This is because gziped a.out takes more VM, and we have none, and the entire kernel is gzipped anyway... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 01:32:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA21908 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 01:32:00 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA21902 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 01:31:53 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA13383; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 01:30:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA22510; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 01:32:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199509010832.BAA22510@corbin.Root.COM> To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Sep 95 17:29:56 +1000." <199509010729.RAA32626@godzilla.zeta.org.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 01:32:42 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>Yeah, I just looked at the driver and saw the programmed IO cruft in there >>to deal with the novell cards. Bummer. Someone mentioned that some of the >>cards really do have shared memory and can run just like the SMC and 3COM. >>Do you know anything about this? > >Shared memory on my NE2000/WD8013EBT card is 50% faster, but that isn't >saying much. The driver spends half its time bcopying to the shared >memory instead of more that half its time doing explicit i/o instructions. >The speeds are something like: > > i/o instructions: 2MB/sec > bcopy: 3MB/sec > IDE disk controllers: 3.3MB/sec PIO mode 0 (or 1?) spec > 8MHz ISA bus max: 4MB/sec Your bus is slow. The 8013 usually has memory speeds of 4MB/sec. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 02:08:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA23342 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:08:39 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA23329 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:08:34 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <19405-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:08:23 +1000 Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id TAA24351; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:13:05 +1000 Received: by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.3) id TAA26135; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:08:02 +1000 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:08:02 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199509010908.TAA26135@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: Robert Withrow cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Test/Release cycle. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Robert Withrow wrote: >Something that bothers me is the (to me at least) unbelivably >short 12 day Test/release time for 2.0.5. The Alpha was released >and 12 days later 2.0.5 was released. > >I wonder if I am alone in thinking that that is *way* too short >of a time? You must not be aware of the introduction of the -stable and -current streams. Release times in the past have been fairly disorganised times. Many people (all volunteers) were under a lot of pressure. I'm glad I was not a cog in those wheels. The new scheme has 2.2 under construction while 2.1 is being tidied and polished. When 2.1 is immaculate, it will be released, and 2.2 will become -stable, while 2.3 will be created as -current. I for one am impressed with the dedication of the core team to this parallel development system. It requires a lot of extra work, and they aren't the ones that benefit. We are. I expect an excellent 2.1 (and up) will result from this system. Stephen McKay. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 02:49:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA24404 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:49:05 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA24346 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:46:56 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA14493 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:26:18 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA18385 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:26:18 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA03644 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:08:44 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509010908.LAA03644@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: How to abort a DMA transfer? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:08:43 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Frank Durda IV" at Aug 31, 95 10:01:00 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 363 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Frank Durda IV wrote: [very excellent description of the PeeCee DMA stuff deleted.] Do people think this would make sense to be put along with the other share/FAQ/Text items we've got (or their HTML replacements)? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 02:49:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA24433 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:49:19 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA24412 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:49:09 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA14397 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:23:30 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA18361; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:22:08 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA03027; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:02:27 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509010802.KAA03027@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: can swap space be shared with other OSes? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:02:26 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199508312321.QAA01188@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Aug 31, 95 04:21:42 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1590 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Elischer wrote: > > > I believe a similar scheme would work for an unknown partition ID, for > > instance the Linux swap -- assuming each DOS partition gets a logical > > device regardless of whether we recognize the ID or not. This is > > something that should be done if it hasn't been already. > I believe it will work.. > swapon /dev/sd0s3 would swap onto the 3rd slice... > if that was the linux swap slice..... It doesn't. See my recent discussion about this topic in -current. (Reminder: i've bought an second-hand disk for my notebook, and it came with an installed Linux from the previous owner, which i decided to keep.) Either Linux as FreeBSD insist on finding some `magic' on the slice they're using as swap area. For Linux, this is arranged by the Linux swap slice ID (0x81?) and the `mkswap' command, while FreeBSD requires a 0xa5 slice ID and a correct disklabel (that should cover the entire slice, and have a `b' partition also using the entire slice). So by now i use some hackery inside /etc/rc that runs fdisk and mkswap whenever Linux is about to be booted, and fdisk plus disklabel for FreeBSD. Needless to say, the slice must be behind the FreeBSD root (and /usr, for that matter) slice, since FreeBSD's boot loader does only boot off the ``compatibility slice'', i.e. the first 0xa5 slice found in the fdisk table. (Only the order in the fdisk table is important, the order on the disk is irrelevant.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 02:50:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA24507 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:50:40 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA24499 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:50:36 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA14428; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:24:52 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA18362; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:23:30 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA03241; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:19:03 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509010819.KAA03241@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: DAT drive support To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:19:02 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, fnf@amigalib.com In-Reply-To: from "Fred Fish" at Aug 31, 95 09:25:32 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 342 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Fred Fish wrote: > > I try writing to the tape and I get: > > st0(aha0:6:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:7d000 asc:c,0 Write error sks:80,1 Are you sure your medium and drive are actually compatible? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 04:11:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA27396 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 04:11:09 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA27390 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 04:11:07 -0700 Received: from kanga.x.org by expo.x.org id AA14016; Fri, 1 Sep 95 07:10:35 -0400 Received: by kanga.x.org id AA06700; Fri, 1 Sep 95 07:10:33 EST Message-Id: <9509011110.AA06700@kanga.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: fdisk in 2.1.0--SNAP is broken In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 01 Sep 1995 08:22:01 +0200. <199509010622.IAA02594@uriah.heep.sax.de> Organization: X Consortium Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 07:10:32 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > But... Using fdisk I'm unable to set my OS/2 HPFS partition as bootable. > > fdisk -u -a /dev/r[sw]d0 > > (Don't use the `d' parititon.) Er, okay, that works. Don't know why that didn't occur to me, guess I'm too set in my ways from 1.x and they way that it worked. So that raises the next question, which is why was this changed from the way it worked in 1.x, i.e. why did the 1.x fdisk know to use the raw device by default but the 2.x fdisk does not? It doesn't follow the rule of least surprise. :-) FYI, even though it works I get the following message: ioctl: DIOCWLABEL: operation not supported by device. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 05:01:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA29479 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 05:01:57 -0700 Received: from itp.ac.ru (itp.ac.ru [193.233.32.4]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA29435 ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 05:01:30 -0700 Received: from alt.itp.ac.ru (alt.itp.ac.ru [193.233.32.9]) by itp.ac.ru (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA06193; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 16:01:38 +0400 Received: (from ks@localhost) by alt.itp.ac.ru (8.6.11/8.6.11) id QAA00264; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 16:11:44 +0400 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 16:11:44 +0400 From: Sergey Kosyakov Message-Id: <199509011211.QAA00264@alt.itp.ac.ru> To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: RISCom/N1 Cc: questions@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Dear all, can we use our RISCom/N1 sync port card (SDL Communications) with FreeBSD 2.0.5 ? As I know BSDI supports this card. Sincerely, Sergey. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 05:37:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA00162 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 05:37:47 -0700 Received: from server.netcraft.co.uk (server.netcraft.co.uk [194.72.238.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA00156 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 05:37:44 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by server.netcraft.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA00399; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:35:49 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199509011235.NAA00399@server.netcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:35:48 +0100 (BST) Cc: pst@shockwave.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509010550.WAA22460@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Aug 31, 95 10:50:29 pm Reply-to: paul@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1374 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to David Greenman who said > > > > > From: David Greenman > > Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? > > > > It will require twice the CPU, and in some extreme cases, this might be > > enough to cause it to drop a packet. ...but normally it will work fine. > > > >Yeah, I just looked at the driver and saw the programmed IO cruft in there > >to deal with the novell cards. Bummer. Someone mentioned that some of the > >cards really do have shared memory and can run just like the SMC and 3COM. > >Do you know anything about this? > > I seem to recall the the NE2100's have this ability, but there isn't > support for it in the driver. I don't have any programming information for > it and haven't had the time or interest in trying to acquire it. ...but the > NE2000 doesn't have shared memory support; only programmed I/O. There's two verions of the PCnet-ISA, one uses DMA the other uses shared mem. The driver would work with minimal changes on a shared mem verion, all it would need is some way to find out where the shmem is. The driver has the code to work with these types of cards but I've never come across one to finish off the missing bits. -- Paul Richards, Bluebird Computer Systems. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, http://www.freebsd.org/~paul Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 1222 457651 (home) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 06:34:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA02643 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 06:34:06 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA02637 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 06:34:03 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA21744; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 21:29:59 +0800 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 21:29:59 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, Joerg Wunsch Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) In-Reply-To: <199508312021.WAA27457@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 31 Aug 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > That's not the problem. The actual problem are long-living processes > that cause collisions since you expect temp files like > /foo/bar/file. to be unique within the system. Why would a collision occur? If you have along-living process at, say, pid 151 (like what 'xdm' is on my machine right now) and the most recently used pid was 150 (assuming it had cycled around), wouldn't the scheduler/kernel just see that 151 is still running, and number the next process 152? Is that the type of "PID collision" you are referring to? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 06:41:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA02828 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 06:41:43 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA02821 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 06:41:29 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA04581 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 23:15:56 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199509011345.XAA04581@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: How to abort a DMA transfer? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 23:15:55 +0930 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199509010908.LAA03644@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Sep 1, 95 11:08:43 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 837 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > > As Frank Durda IV wrote: > > [very excellent description of the PeeCee DMA stuff deleted.] > > Do people think this would make sense to be put along with the other > share/FAQ/Text items we've got (or their HTML replacements)? Yes, definitely. Commentaries like that are _extremely_ worthwhile keeping around; they're often better than formal documentation when it comes to understanding things. > cheers, J"org -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 06:56:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA03210 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 06:56:08 -0700 Received: from pancake.remcomp.fr (pancake.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA03195 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 06:55:47 -0700 Received: from zapata.omnix.fr.org (zapata.omnix.fr.org [128.127.10.1]) by zapata.omnix.fr.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA03742 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 15:51:25 +0200 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 15:51:24 +0200 (MET DST) From: Didier Derny To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: PCI Graphic Boards for FreeBSD 2.05/ XFree86 3.1 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk What it the most suitable and the least expensive graphic board for freebsd ? I have an offer for the following graphic boards: PCI SELLA TRIO 64 PCI Cirrus 5434 PCI Diammond Stealth Trio 32 +---------------------+ | Didier Derny | | didier@omnix.fr.org | +---------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 07:05:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA03437 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 07:05:58 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA03431 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 07:05:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA01381; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 07:01:46 -0700 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Subject: Re: How to abort a DMA transfer? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Sep 1995 11:08:43 +0200." <199509010908.LAA03644@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 07:01:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1379.809964106@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Do people think this would make sense to be put along with the other > share/FAQ/Text items we've got (or their HTML replacements)? Definitely in the SGML replacements! We want to start phasing out the text stuff. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 08:27:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA05538 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:27:35 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA05518 ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:27:29 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA14115; Fri, 1 Sep 95 15:27:28 GMT Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA10686; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:27:26 -0600 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:27:26 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9509011527.AA10686@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: jfieber@indiana.edu, gryphon@healer.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: (message from John Fieber on Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:42:04 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Handbook ToDo... Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Coranth" == Coranth Gryphon writes: Coranth> What level of technical detail (or what volume of text) Coranth> do we want? I've tried to address this in the Printing section by having beginner and advanced sections. Plus, I've presented step-by-step instructions as simple outlines, but each step contains links to detailed information. My hope is that the advanced user can just refer to the list of steps, but the beginner can click on any step to find out more. John: I'd have the printing section done, but I'll be at the PLoP '95 conference next week ... so give me two more weeks! PS: Any other FreeBSD'ers going to be at PLoP? -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA I want to get a tattoo of myself on my entire body, only 2" taller. -- Steven Wright From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 08:51:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA06480 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:51:46 -0700 Received: from amigalib.com (fishpond.amigalib.com [165.247.33.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA06474 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:51:43 -0700 Received: by amigalib.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #64) id m0soYMk-0004nYC; Fri, 1 Sep 95 08:50 MST Message-Id: From: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) Subject: Re: DAT drive support To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:50:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, fnf@amigalib.comfnf In-Reply-To: <199509010819.KAA03241@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Sep 1, 95 10:19:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 549 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I try writing to the tape and I get: > > > > st0(aha0:6:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:7d000 asc:c,0 Write error sks:80,1 > > Are you sure your medium and drive are actually compatible? Yes, I've used this drive and the same tapes (tried several) on the same hardware under a different OS. I did replace the drive last night with a slightly newer model, and the replacement works. I suspect there is some strange interaction between the driver and the firmware which is causing problems using this particular drive, but only under FreeBSD. -Fred From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 09:04:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA06771 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:04:02 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.84.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA06765 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:04:00 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id KAA08998 for freebsd.org!hackers; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:43:47 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA17419; 31 Aug 95 14:37:58 CDT (Thu) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA20121; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:04:01 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9508312004.AA20121@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about serial port naming, plus Digiboard driver Q... To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:04:01 -0500 (CDT) Cc: peter@nmti.com, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508310720.CAA06311@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Aug 31, 95 02:20:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1206 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > As it is I find it rather disconcerting that if I have a BB2016 in addition > to the 4 internal serial ports, the BB ports are "sio4-19" and the tty names > are correspondingly screwed. You could do what DEC does and have device names that have no relation to the minor numbers. That would waste fewer minors, too. I like the upper-lower distinction for dialin/dialout ports, myself, and it makes things nice for PS and friends. It's not like anyone's going to run on an ASR-33 or adm-3a without a lowercase ROM and get \ in the output... > > > Is there anyone else besides me who is looking at putting lots of serial > > > ports on a BSD box, by the way? > > Funny you should mention that. I'm trying to move our current modems (on three > > boxes running two versions of System V) to a FreeBSD box. > Any luck? :-) Waiting for an Adaptec 1542 (it's an old ISA machine I'm rehabbing) so I can start the install. I have three Digiboard PC/8e cards I want to use. Do I need to install 2.1-STABLE to track the digiboard drivers or can I stick the new drivers in 2.0.5 (this has a bearing on whether I spend a day downloading stuff over our firewall and pissing everone off because it's a PPP link). From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 09:24:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA07356 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:24:45 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA07350 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:24:44 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA25003; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:19:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509011619.JAA25003@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:19:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: davidg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509010545.WAA00995@precipice.shockwave.com> from "Paul Traina" at Aug 31, 95 10:45:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 777 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Yeah, I just looked at the driver and saw the programmed IO cruft in there > to deal with the novell cards. Bummer. Someone mentioned that some of the > cards really do have shared memory and can run just like the SMC and 3COM. > Do you know anything about this? These aren't real NE2000's, they're "compatible with extensions". I know Addtron makes one; I don't know anyone else. Since the card emulates either an NE2k or a 8013, most people just run in in 8013 mode. The NE2100 is a different beast and runs and amd chipset (I think), not the standard NE2k chipset at all. In UnixWare, the thing has a totally seperate driver. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 09:38:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA08216 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:38:06 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA08210 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:38:05 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA09120; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:37:33 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199509011637.LAA09120@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:37:33 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9508312015.AA23572@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Aug 31, 95 03:15:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > So does anybody have any brilliant ideas? > > tty[a-?][0-9a-z] for callout > tty[A-?][0-9A-Z] for callin Why use tty for callout? You are killing the potential ranges of tty names. It's also not quite as immediately obvious that "ttyBZ" and "ttybz" are paired, and which one plays which role. "ttybz" and "cuabz" seems more intuitive to me... But a naming scheme.. hmm. It would be nice to see 1024+ ports. tty[a-o][0-9a-z] would yield 540 ports on the outside. Given the likelihood of 8 or 16 port cards, done nicely on letter boundaries, would give 120 or 240 ports. tty[0-9a-o][0-9a-z] would yield 900 ports on the outside. 8 or 16 port cards, 200 or 400 ports. tty[0-9a-oA-Z][0-9a-z] = 1836 ports on the outside. 8 or 16 port, 408 or 816 ports. That last one seems like a reasonable concept to me.... plenty of elbow room and the names won't start looking "unusual" until half way through (ok ok I like "tty00" better than "ttya0", I admit it). Part of what we should be thinking of, IMHO, is how people manage these large numbers of ports, and work the naming scheme around that. As I said, I would really like to see cards done somehow on letter boundaries such that I can simply label a breakout box as "tty2*" and if an operator should come looking for a malfunctioning line, they don't need to come find me to decipher which box and which line "tty27" is. The people who are managing small numbers of serial ports really don't give a damn, but this would be very helpful to large installations! ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 09:39:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA08263 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:39:03 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.84.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA08257 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:39:02 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id LAA13457 for freebsd.org!hackers; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:25:32 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA10225; 1 Sep 95 10:01:44 CDT (Fri) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA13764; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:27:51 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9509011527.AA13764@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:27:50 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@nmti.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199508312018.GAA07756@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Sep 1, 95 06:18:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 739 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> `talk peter ttyXX' won't work if peter is actually logged in to cuaXX. > >If you're logged in on cuaa0 "talk peter ttya0" won't work either. > >If you're distinguishing them by the last two letters, why not do what > >SCO does and call them "ttyd0" and "ttyD0" or something? Mixing up two > >mechanisims for separating the namespace is asking for trouble. > cua* has been used for a long time. (so has ttyx/ttyX, and originally /dev/cua* referred to a separate port on a modem that accepted control commands for the main port, but that's beside the point) Then use that as the distinguishing feature, instead of the last two letters. Doesn't matter that much to me. All I'm getting at is that the current system is confusing. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 09:46:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA08582 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:46:19 -0700 Received: from epsilon.qmw.ac.uk (epsilon.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.6.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA08575 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:46:15 -0700 Received: from canary.dcs.qmw.ac.uk by epsilon.qmw.ac.uk with SMTP-DNS (PP) id <01607-0@epsilon.qmw.ac.uk>; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:44:44 +0100 Received: from ruby.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [192.135.231.243] by canary.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.6.12/QMW-server-2.4s) with SMTP; poster "Mark Dawson "; id RAA12401; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:41:08 +0100 Received: locally by ruby (4.1/QMW-client-3.2b); for "md@dcs.qmw.ac.uk"; poster "md"; id AA06532; Fri, 1 Sep 95 17:44:24 BST Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.ruby.cs.qmw.ac.uk.sun4.41 via MS.5.6.ruby.cs.qmw.ac.uk.sun4_41; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:44:24 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:44:24 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Dawson To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Wanted: help with radix routing code Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've got a tricky problem with the routing code in my port of the netatalk software to FreeBSD and I need to understand more about the routing code in FreeBSD. I have found the following reference: A Tree-Based Packet Routing Table for Berkeley Unix Keith Sklower 1991 Winter Dalls USENIX If anyone can send me an electronic copy of this (or a related) paper I'd be very grateful. Also, if someone would like to volunteer to answer my questions about the radix code I'd be even more grateful! Thanks, Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 09:53:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA08924 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:53:53 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA08915 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:53:52 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA09161; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:53:19 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199509011653.LAA09161@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about serial port naming, plus Digiboard driver Q... To: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:53:18 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9508312004.AA20121@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Aug 31, 95 03:04:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > As it is I find it rather disconcerting that if I have a BB2016 in addition > > to the 4 internal serial ports, the BB ports are "sio4-19" and the tty names > > are correspondingly screwed. > > You could do what DEC does and have device names that have no relation to > the minor numbers. That would waste fewer minors, too. Yes, this is entirely true. I am thinking about this more from an administrative point of view, I suppose.... but then again, how do you deal with the case where somebody has installed com1/com2 as tty00-01 minor #s 0,1 BB2016 as tty10-1f minor #s 2-17 and then decides to install com3/4 as tty02-03? With the recent minor number range expansion, maybe it would make sense to assign something like 64 or 256 ports per letter, and just be done with it all...? tty00-01 minor #s 0,1 tty10-13 minor #s 256-259 tty20-23 minor #s 512-515 etc That way when somebody replaces a 4 port card with a 16 port card, there are no device names and minors to be shuffled. I don't really know from a kernel point of view how "wasteful" this is, but it would be really nice to see an easily manageable setup for serial ports. > I like the upper-lower distinction for dialin/dialout ports, myself, and it > makes things nice for PS and friends. It's not like anyone's going to run > on an ASR-33 or adm-3a without a lowercase ROM and get \ in the output... I don't like it, but that's opinion. > > Any luck? :-) > > Waiting for an Adaptec 1542 (it's an old ISA machine I'm rehabbing) so I can > start the install. I have three Digiboard PC/8e cards I want to use. Do I need > to install 2.1-STABLE to track the digiboard drivers or can I stick the new > drivers in 2.0.5 (this has a bearing on whether I spend a day downloading > stuff over our firewall and pissing everone off because it's a PPP link). Fun fun! :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 09:59:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA09400 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:59:20 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA09392 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:59:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA12136 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 18:27:53 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199509011627.SAA12136@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: A funny superblock! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 18:27:53 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1011 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Today I was trying to recover a 2.0.5 disk that got scrambled after a panic, and found out that both the / and /usr partitions had a bad superblock. Before updating them, I decided to have look with hexdump, and found out that the superblocks on both partitions were "almost" correct, except that they were offset by two bytes on the disk (i.e. useful data started at byte 2 instead of 0). Kind of funny; can someone think of a reason for this ? I tried to resync the superblock, at which point fsck complained that the alternate superblocks contained different information. I gave up and "fsck -b 32 -y" ... Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 10:25:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA10518 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:25:21 -0700 Received: from elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (elf.kendall.mdcc.edu [147.70.150.122]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA10512 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:25:18 -0700 Received: (from freelist@localhost) by elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA13589; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:16:14 -0400 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:16:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Don's FList drop" To: Jake Hamby cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2.1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Jake Hamby wrote: > 3) When I built my kernel I compiled in SYSVSHM, SYSVSEM, and SYSVMSG, > because I figured public domain software (especially POSIX or Linux-style > programs) would use them. Also I assumed XFree86 would use System V > shared memory for the MIT-SHM extension. Are either of these assumptions > correct, and for what programs is it desirable to have System V support > in the kernel? Only one I hit was Uniboard. You'll know when you find one if you don't have it compliled in - a lovely Exit on Signal 12 will grace your console. I dunno if any since have used it - I put it in my kernel, so w/o the error messages, I have no idea. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 10:29:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA10716 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:29:28 -0700 Received: from elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (elf.kendall.mdcc.edu [147.70.150.122]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA10709 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:29:26 -0700 Received: (from freelist@localhost) by elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA13598; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:20:26 -0400 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:20:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Don's FList drop" To: Stephen McKay cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Test/Release cycle. In-Reply-To: <199509010908.TAA26135@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, Stephen McKay wrote: > I for one am impressed with the dedication of the core team to this parallel > development system. It requires a lot of extra work, and they aren't the > ones that benefit. We are. Personally I think astonished or agog more describes my reaction. The amount of work these people put into something free is nothing less than amazing, and it's made my personal and work life more pleasant. If any of the core team is ever passing through Miami, I've got a free beer with your name on it. (Well, not yet, but I've got magic markers and can write quick under pressure) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 10:37:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA11003 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:37:31 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA10997 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:37:23 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA29676 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:37:15 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA22382 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:37:15 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA16004 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 18:45:04 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509011645.SAA16004@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 18:45:00 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Sep 1, 95 09:29:59 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1584 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Brian Tao wrote: > > On Thu, 31 Aug 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > > > That's not the problem. The actual problem are long-living processes > > that cause collisions since you expect temp files like > > /foo/bar/file. to be unique within the system. > > Why would a collision occur? If you have along-living process at, > say, pid 151 (like what 'xdm' is on my machine right now) and the most > recently used pid was 150 (assuming it had cycled around), wouldn't > the scheduler/kernel just see that 151 is still running, and number > the next process 152? Is that the type of "PID collision" you are > referring to? Nope, the long-living processes have been a poor example. The problem rather occurs whenever you've got some PID file around and are not sure whether this is the leftover of a previously aborted process or the process is actually still alive. These da*n tty lockfiles are a good example. Since nobody can be sure that a lock file lurking around does actually belong to a live process, everybody who's dealing with those files is examining it first, and attempts to send that process a signal. If this is yielding anything else than `ESRCH', the process is considered to be still active, hence the lock is valid and remains untouched. (Otherwise, the new program will remove the lock file and create one of its own.) After a PID rollover, the non-uniqueness of the PID namespace can fool this mechanism. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 10:37:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA11055 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:37:59 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11037 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:37:41 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA29704 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:37:33 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA22393 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:37:33 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA01574 for hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:18:27 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509011718.TAA01574@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: fdisk in 2.1.0--SNAP is broken To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:18:23 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9509011110.AA06700@kanga.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Sep 1, 95 07:10:32 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1018 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > > fdisk -u -a /dev/r[sw]d0 > > > > (Don't use the `d' parititon.) > > Er, okay, that works. Don't know why that didn't occur to me, guess I'm > too set in my ways from 1.x and they way that it worked. So that raises > the next question, which is why was this changed from the way it worked > in 1.x, i.e. why did the 1.x fdisk know to use the raw device by default > but the 2.x fdisk does not? It doesn't follow the rule of least surprise. It's been changed since we've got a better solution than the mystic `d' partition now to access the entire drive; it's the slice code. Only the `c' partition remains magic now, it's the synonym for the entire slice. fdisk hasn't been updated yet. I'm about to commit my minor change to fdisk as recently posted here, fdisk will remain icky, but at least it will have better defaults than. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 10:43:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA11281 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:43:07 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11275 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:43:06 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA02015 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:43:02 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA29663; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:37:09 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA22379; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 19:37:08 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA23186; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 18:58:41 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509011658.SAA23186@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: DAT drive support To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 18:58:40 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Fred Fish" at Sep 1, 95 08:50:50 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 506 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Fred Fish wrote: > > I did replace the drive last night with a slightly newer model, and the > replacement works. I suspect there is some strange interaction between > the driver and the firmware which is causing problems using this particular > drive, but only under FreeBSD. Is it SCSI-2? Many vendors used to have private variations in the SCSI-1 era. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 10:51:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA11505 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:51:48 -0700 Received: from elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (elf.kendall.mdcc.edu [147.70.150.122]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11498 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:51:46 -0700 Received: (from freelist@localhost) by elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA13666; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:41:42 -0400 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:41:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Don's FList drop" To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, Joerg Wunsch Subject: Re: fdisk in 2.1.0--SNAP is broken In-Reply-To: <199509011718.TAA01574@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > It's been changed since we've got a better solution than the mystic > `d' partition now to access the entire drive; it's the slice code. > Only the `c' partition remains magic now, it's the synonym for the > entire slice. Hmmm. My second drive is currently wd1c, due to a complicated series of technical issues that boil down to the fact that I didn't know what the hell I was doing when I set it up. Am I headed for a future disaster here? It's working fine, but now you've got me worrying that it's going to cause trouble down the road if I move this machine up to 2.1 or something. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 11:13:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA12282 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:13:04 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA12276 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:13:00 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id UAA00822 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:12:20 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA22961 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:12:19 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA12703 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:11:58 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509011811.UAA12703@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: fdisk in 2.1.0--SNAP is broken To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:11:57 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Don's FList drop" at Sep 1, 95 01:41:41 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 573 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Don's FList drop wrote: > > > Hmmm. My second drive is currently wd1c, due to a complicated series of > technical issues that boil down to the fact that I didn't know what the > hell I was doing when I set it up. A drive cannot be wd1c in the slices' world. It can only be wd1s3 or something like this. /dev/rwd1 is the `compat slice', and as such a synonym for the first slice bearing a FreeBSD ID (e.g. /dev/rwd1s1). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 11:17:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA12393 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:17:27 -0700 Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA12387 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:17:20 -0700 Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id UAA06238; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:16:08 +0200 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199509011816.UAA06238@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: 9Gb HD questions - FreeBSD 2.0.5 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:16:07 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: fnf@amigalib.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <5372.809803282@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Aug 30, 95 10:21:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 384 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > This should work just fine. In fact, I have one of these exact same > drives partitioned as *one* partition and it works just great on > news.cdrom.com: > > /dev/sd1s1 7801705 6576314 601254 92% /a/news > How long does it take to fsck this thing? (when a reboot happens and the bloody clean bit is the only thing that is wrong) -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 11:28:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA12710 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:28:01 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA12704 ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:28:00 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: kernel size To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3807.809810731@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Aug 30, 95 12:25:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 935 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I made one today > > > > look in the makefile.. > > > > release.8: write_mfs_in_kernel > > @cd ${.CURDIR} && $(MAKE) ckRELEASEDIR > > rm -rf ${RD}/mfsfd > > mkdir ${RD}/mfsfd > > cd ${RD}/mfsfd && \ > > mkdir -p dev mnt stand/help > > @cd ${.CURDIR} && $(MAKE) installCRUNCH CRUNCH=boot \ > > DIR=${RD}/mfsfd/stand ZIP=false > > > > ^^^^^^^^^ > > This is because gziped a.out takes more VM, and we have none, and the > entire kernel is gzipped anyway... I realised that... but it doesn't fit between 1 and 3MB when decompressed :) > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. > http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. > whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. > Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 11:38:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA12999 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:38:30 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.84.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA12993 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:38:29 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id NAA26344 for freebsd.org!hackers; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:23:35 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA14909; 1 Sep 95 12:26:36 CDT (Fri) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA26697; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 12:52:43 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9509011752.AA26697@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about serial port naming, plus Digiboard driver Q... To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 12:52:43 -0500 (CDT) Cc: peter@nmti.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509011653.LAA09161@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Sep 1, 95 11:53:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 586 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, this is entirely true. I am thinking about this more from an > administrative point of view, I suppose.... but then again, how do you deal > with the case where somebody has installed > com1/com2 as tty00-01 minor #s 0,1 > BB2016 as tty10-1f minor #s 2-17 > and then decides to install com3/4 as tty02-03? mknod tty02 c maj 18 mknod tty03 c maj 19 > With the recent minor number range expansion, maybe it would make sense to > assign something like 64 or 256 ports per letter, and just be done with it > all...? That would work, too. And would encourage wider port names. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 11:38:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA13021 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:38:34 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (uuneo.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.84.252]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA13014 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:38:33 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id NAA26341; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:23:33 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA14790; 1 Sep 95 12:21:09 CDT (Fri) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA26461; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 12:47:16 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9509011747.AA26461@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Subject: Re: Gritching about XFree86 and serial port naming To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 12:47:16 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199509011637.LAA09120@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Sep 1, 95 11:37:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1706 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > tty[a-?][0-9a-z] for callout > > tty[A-?][0-9A-Z] for callin > Why use tty for callout? You are killing the potential ranges of tty names. Huh? Got the same number of tty devices as the current scheme. Personally I prefer tty[a-?]{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,...} tty[a-?]{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,...}.cu tty[a-?]{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,...}.ctl tty[a-?]{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,...}.lck And increasing the width of the fields in ps and so on. > It's also not quite as immediately obvious that "ttyBZ" and "ttybz" are > paired, and which one plays which role. It's obvious they're paired. Which plays which role is less obvious, I agree. tty[0-9a-oA-Z][0-9a-z]{,.cu,.ctl,.lck} would be cleaner, anyway. > "ttybz" and "cuabz" seems more intuitive to me... Just so long as it's the same "bz". > Part of what we should be thinking of, IMHO, is how people manage these > large numbers of ports, and work the naming scheme around that. As I said, > I would really like to see cards done somehow on letter boundaries such that > I can simply label a breakout box as "tty2*" and if an operator should come > looking for a malfunctioning line, they don't need to come find me to > decipher which box and which line "tty27" is. The people who are managing > small numbers of serial ports really don't give a damn, but this would be > very helpful to large installations! The system our old modem server used was 3 digits, with multiple expansion boxes on a baseband cable (not ethernet, but similar technology) ttymXYZ X = 0-7 card # Y = 0-7 box # Z = 0-7 or 0-F port # Really, the System V naming schemes make more sense. If you had 20 fredport boards, you could make it ttyf[0-j][0-9]. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 12:00:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA14059 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 12:00:50 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA14053 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 12:00:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02426; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:52:32 -0700 To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) cc: fnf@amigalib.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 9Gb HD questions - FreeBSD 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Sep 1995 20:16:07 +0200." <199509011816.UAA06238@gvr.win.tue.nl> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 11:52:32 -0700 Message-ID: <2424.809981552@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How long does it take to fsck this thing? (when a reboot happens and > the bloody clean bit is the only thing that is wrong) About 20 minutes or so.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 13:07:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA16975 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:07:45 -0700 Received: from amigalib.com (fishpond.amigalib.com [165.247.33.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA16966 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:07:42 -0700 Received: by amigalib.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #64) id m0socMb-0004nYC; Fri, 1 Sep 95 13:06 MST Message-Id: From: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) Subject: Re: DAT drive support To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:06:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) In-Reply-To: <199509011658.SAA23186@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Sep 1, 95 06:58:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 525 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I did replace the drive last night with a slightly newer model, and the > > replacement works. I suspect there is some strange interaction between > > the driver and the firmware which is causing problems using this particular > > drive, but only under FreeBSD. > > Is it SCSI-2? Many vendors used to have private variations in the > SCSI-1 era. Yes, though the previous one also claimed to be SCSI-1. However the one that doesn't work is from about Oct 93, while the one that does was bought new in late 94. -Fred From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 13:08:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA17033 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:08:59 -0700 Received: from amigalib.com (fishpond.amigalib.com [165.247.33.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA17018 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:08:52 -0700 Received: by amigalib.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #64) id m0socNj-0004nYC; Fri, 1 Sep 95 13:08 MST Message-Id: From: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) Subject: Re: DAT drive support To: fnf@fishpond.yggdrasil.com (Fred Fish) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:08:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Fred Fish" at Sep 1, 95 01:06:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 252 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Is it SCSI-2? Many vendors used to have private variations in the > > SCSI-1 era. > > Yes, though the previous one also claimed to be SCSI-1. However the ^^^^^^ Arg. Make that SCSI-2 ... -Fred From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 13:36:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA17672 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:36:21 -0700 Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA17665 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:36:16 -0700 Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA22658; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 15:35:24 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 15:35:22 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Michael Smith cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to abort a DMA transfer? In-Reply-To: <199509011345.XAA04581@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, Michael Smith wrote: > J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > > As Frank Durda IV wrote: > > [very excellent description of the PeeCee DMA stuff deleted.] > > > > Do people think this would make sense to be put along with the other > > share/FAQ/Text items we've got (or their HTML replacements)? > > Yes, definitely. Commentaries like that are _extremely_ worthwhile > keeping around; they're often better than formal documentation when it > comes to understanding things. Would someone email a copy to me for inclusion in the handbook? (I've been to busy to do anything but random sampling of the mailing lists and article in question slipped by.) I think I'll make a chapter of "Technical Tidbits" for things like this. We already have a few things, like memory utilization and the booting process that would be good companions for such a chapter. I've also got a few "Terry Lambert Sermons" on assorted topics that I've saved. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 17:22:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA29209 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:22:04 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA29195 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:21:59 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA09426; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 02:21:37 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA25023; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 02:21:26 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA14062; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 02:20:47 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509020020.CAA14062@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 9Gb HD questions - FreeBSD 2.0.5 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 02:20:46 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, fnf@amigalib.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2424.809981552@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 1, 95 11:52:32 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 367 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > How long does it take to fsck this thing? (when a reboot happens and > > the bloody clean bit is the only thing that is wrong) > > About 20 minutes or so.. For the empty file system? :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 17:31:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA29891 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:31:07 -0700 Received: from web.azstarnet.com (azstarnet.com [169.197.1.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA29852 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:30:51 -0700 Received: from sprite71.azstarnet.com (sprite71.azstarnet.com [169.197.3.71]) by web.azstarnet.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA00280; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:29:49 -0700 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:29:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199509020029.RAA00280@web.azstarnet.com> X-Sender: maher@azstarnet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ports@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org From: maher@azstarnet.com (maher katbah) Subject: who is "Don's FList drop"? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi I received the following message from a good frind of mine. he calls himself "Don's FList drop" I am speechless. maher >Nope - I know where to post questions appropreately and w/o copying them >to 29329837 places. You've managed to piss Jordan off enough that he's >asked everyone to ignore all future postings from you, so I think there's >really no doubt at all who the idiot is. > >So - in my less diplomatic mode - FUCK OFF YOU RUDE ASSHOLE. It's people >like you with no manners who give the internet a bad name. By being a >ass-licking cocksucker, you make it harder and harder for non-jerks to >get answers to their questions because you totally alienate the useful >people who have the ability to fix your problem. > >Congradulations - you're now #1 in my mail filter. Say hi to /dev/null >for me. > >On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, maher katbah wrote: > >> You are the one who sounds like an idiot. Buy yourself a new Hard Drive , >> they are on sale now. >> >> > >> >Goddamit, I'm sick of seeing your messages (which have without fail all >> >belonged on -questions) in three mailing lists. Do us all a favor and >> >learn some restraint or su root and rm -R / your FreeBSD system. It's >> >rude and it marks you as an idiot, and worst of all, it wastes my disk >> >space. Cut it out. >> > >> > >> >> > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 17:54:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA01997 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:54:48 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA01976 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:54:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA00781; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:54:36 -0700 To: maher@azstarnet.com (maher katbah) cc: ports@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: who is "Don's FList drop"? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Sep 1995 17:29:49 PDT." <199509020029.RAA00280@web.azstarnet.com> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 17:54:36 -0700 Message-ID: <778.810003276@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We're being spammed again. I thought that his message to questions would just be another one-off whine, but this is worse than that. I don't know why our filtering didn't work, but we're certainly looking into it. Needless to say, this man will never receive one tiny bit of help with his FreeBSD system from ME! In the meantime, I would like to suggest that people try to contact this man's site administrator and complain bitterly. Maybe if the poor guy gets 100 calls in the first day he'll shoot this stupid f**k and save us and the world in general a lot of future grief. Failing that, I suggest taking up a collection to buy Maher an express vasectomy. The thought of someone like this reproducing himself fills me with horror and disgust. If he already has, then I suggest his children be taken away and raised by something more civilized, like a pack of arctic wolves. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 20:29:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA18662 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:29:18 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18636 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:29:07 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA25776; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 11:28:35 +0800 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 11:28:34 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FreeBSD hackers , Joerg Wunsch Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) In-Reply-To: <199509011645.SAA16004@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > After a PID rollover, the non-uniqueness of the PID namespace can fool > this mechanism. Ah ha, I see now, *ding*. :) Yeah, it does seem a little short-sighted, now that you mention it. ;-) pid_t is a long, but PID_MAX is 30000? Are those other 17 bits used for anything at all? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 20:30:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA18899 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:30:28 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18832 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:30:09 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA25784; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 11:29:38 +0800 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 11:29:37 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 9Gb HD questions - FreeBSD 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <199509020020.CAA14062@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 2 Sep 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > > About 20 minutes or so.. > > For the empty file system? :) Jordan did say it was for a news spool.... when was the last time you saw a news spool disk even close to being empty? ;-) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 20:39:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA20774 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:39:51 -0700 Received: from cs.sunysb.edu (sbcs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.15]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA20762 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:39:48 -0700 Received: from sbgrad9.csdept (sbgrad9.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.2.29]) by cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA24086; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 23:38:51 -0400 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 23:38:51 -0400 From: Michael Vernick Message-Id: <199509020338.XAA24086@cs.sunysb.edu> Received: by sbgrad9.csdept (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13252; Fri, 1 Sep 95 23:37:21 EDT To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: "Rodney W. Grimes"'s message of Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:10:34 -0700 (PDT) <199508312010.NAA12388@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: 4GB Drives Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >You see, in modern workstation disk drives you have something called >spindle sync. Well, when you set up spindle sync you have 2 modeselect >values you tweak. One bit says who is the sync master and who are >the sync slaves. Then for each slave drive you tweak another value >that is used to offset the spindles from perfect sync so that the I/O >of block zero of a track on drive 0 of a stripe set has just finished >the scsi bus transfer when block zero of a track on drive 1 is about to >come under the heads. Why do you want the data under the heads when the SCSI bus becomes free? Wouldn't you rather have the data already in the disk cache? If the bus is free and the disk is transferring from the medium and out over the bus, the bottleneck is the disk transfer rate. However if the data had already been in the cache it can go at SCSI bus speeds. As for the 85% bandwidth over the SCSI you have achieved, that is the maximum that I can get. Rather than worry about seeks and latency delays I simply request the same data over and over from the disks. I bypass the file system code and make sure each request (64K, or 128 sectors) goes back to the disk. However, the data is already in the disk cache thus incurring no seeks, nor rotation delays. With 3,4 and 5 disks on a single controller it maxes out at 8.5MBsec. Thus, the controller, disk and bus overhead must account for the other 15%. If you can get rid of that overhead, let me know. :) mv From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 1 20:47:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA22068 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:47:38 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA22056 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:47:35 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA28544; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:43:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509020343.UAA28544@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: 9Gb HD questions - FreeBSD 2.0.5 To: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw (Brian Tao) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:43:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Sep 2, 95 11:29:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 642 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > About 20 minutes or so.. > > > > For the empty file system? :) > > Jordan did say it was for a news spool.... when was the last time > you saw a news spool disk even close to being empty? ;-) A cannonical soloution is probably to have the update mark the disk clean and flush the buffers after a certain amount of time idle, with it being unmarked on activity. This also fits with the idea of APM shutdown/restore. Not something to hack in overnight, but not a horribly big job, either. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 00:19:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA29033 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 00:19:22 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user42.lightside.com [198.81.209.42]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA29026 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 00:19:19 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA03109; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 00:19:39 -0700 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 00:19:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sgmlfmt doesn't work under Perl5.001 ! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk When I tried to run sgmlfmt(1) tonight, after upgrading from the Perl that came with FreeBSD (4.036?) to 5.001m, it gives me these errors and then quits: buk: {170} sgmlfmt Literal @sect now requires backslash at /usr/bin/sgmlfmt line 208, within string Literal @endsect now requires backslash at /usr/bin/sgmlfmt line 247, within string Literal @label now requires backslash at /usr/bin/sgmlfmt line 252, within string Literal @title now requires backslash at /usr/bin/sgmlfmt line 303, within string Literal @head now requires backslash at /usr/bin/sgmlfmt line 317, within string Literal @endhead now requires backslash at /usr/bin/sgmlfmt line 369, within string Literal @part now requires backslash at /usr/bin/sgmlfmt line 397, within string Literal @ref now requires backslash at /usr/bin/sgmlfmt line 466, within string Literal @endref now requires backslash at /usr/bin/sgmlfmt line 473, within string Literal @refnam now requires backslash at /usr/bin/sgmlfmt line 477, within string /usr/bin/sgmlfmt has too many errors. Is this a bug in sgmlfmt or just Perl5.001 not being backwards compatible with 4.036? At any rate, when I installed perl it made a link from /usr/local/bin/perl (where I installed it) to /usr/bin/perl (where the old FreeBSD version was). My fault for allowing it to, but now what am I supposed to do? Tomorrow I'll have a look at either fixing sgmlfmt to work with Perl5 or just rebuilding Perl4.036 from source... Any suggestions? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 00:59:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA29884 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 00:59:54 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA29878 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 00:59:53 -0700 Received: from nike.efn.org (haus.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA07891; Sat, 2 Sep 95 00:59:33 PDT Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 01:00:50 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: pcmia ethernet cards Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am about to buy a toshiba notebook... It is going to include a MegaHetze modem... and I am going to need a pcmia ethernet card... I was wondering if anybody has any recommendations for one that is compatible with FreeBSD? also... I would like it to be both 10base-T and 10base-2... also... will FreeBSD work with the modem and what not on the toshiba notebook... I remeber hearing about pcmia chip sets... is toshiba's chip set support by FreeBSD? Thanks for all the help you guys have given me... TTYL.. John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 01:29:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA00587 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 01:29:20 -0700 Received: from skat.usc.edu (skat.usc.edu [128.125.253.131]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA00580 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 01:29:17 -0700 Received: (jimmyh@localhost) by skat.usc.edu (8.6.10/8.6.12+usc) id BAA24804; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 01:29:12 -0700 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 01:29:12 -0700 From: Jimmy Huang Message-Id: <199509020829.BAA24804@skat.usc.edu> To: nate@sneezy.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD install Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.system References: <3tk1r3$l8o@news1.halcyon.com> <3vlva1$bdl@helena.mt.net> <3vv5c5$ipg@globe.indirect.com> <408eks$25r@helena.MT.net> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In comp.os.linux.development.system you write: [nate@sneezy.sri.com] >In defense of the FreeBSD tools, I suspect part of the difficulty in >installations was because of the familiarity with the Linux installation >tools. Heck, I have a harder time with the new FreeBSD tools since I'm >used to the 1.X series, but new users tend to find them much easier to >use. People who are biased towards a particular install will almost >always find them more difficult. very true. >I suspect that *most* people don't have the space for emacs as a default >editor. very true. To fix that have micro-emacs handy somewhere in the /freebsd/bin/bin.aa stuff. Sorry about not having the details. But they're on a CD I can't mount and I don't want to reboot from freeBSD yet ;-) >Again, most people don't have the space for *ALL* packages to be >installed. However, if you are truly interested in providing >constructive criticism to make the tools better, send email to >hackers@FreeBSD.org. They could certainly use some fresh eyes looking >at the tools since we're all a little bit biased on what we expect to >see. I got the CD-ROM. The 2.0.5 Stuff. And the hierarchy needs to be better for people who can only access their CD-ROM's through DOS cuz you don't have a compatible CDrom driver. For example. I'm assuming that the distrib directory contains all the "necessary" stuff. and the "packages" directory contains all the neat stuff. So the /distrib/bin and /distrib/"XSTUFF" is fine. What's all that other cruft in the distrib directory that have no text files describing them??? the packages directory is fine, except all the files are *really* at packages/All. (kind of annoying). I think it should be the other way around. Also the documentation is wrong. You need to copy the files into c:\freebsd\bin and c:\freebsd\floppies etc etc. The command given copies them into c:\freebsd ... This was in some file labeled "INSTALL" I think I should be Complaining to Walnut Creek about this. But their full satisfaction gaurantee involves me having to return the CD's!!! I don't want to do that... Oh, also where's szrz? couldn't find that. Hmm. what else? You need a way to configure a loopback dummy network device easily. PPP here at my school is dynamic, so I left some stuff blank. It's giving me error messages (okay, don't have to answer that one. I'm dead positive it's in the FAQs somewhere on the CD ;-). The route and ifconfig look different. But it also looks way different in SunOS and Solaris too, heh (nevermind). Oh. You need a sample .tvtwmrc file for your tvtwm package. That's all I can think of for now. Jimmy, was w/ Linux, will be a BSD convert for next couple of weeks for testing purposes ;-). btw, BSD's virtual Memory rulz over Linux. It's kind of funny, I always expected stuff to compile easier on BSD machines, cuz the stuff I use was originally written on them or a Sun station. But some source have been ported around sssoo much that it will no longer compile on FreeBSD w/out some major regressive tweaking (heheheh). Also, you're install program is way way better (orders of magnitude) than what it was 4 years ago, when I tried freebsd and linux the first time and chose linux cuz I couldn't figure it out. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 04:48:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA11346 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 04:48:02 -0700 Received: from tango.rahul.net (tango.rahul.net [192.160.13.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA11340 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 04:47:56 -0700 Received: from bolero.rahul.net by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA03889 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 2 Sep 1995 04:47:17 -0700 Received: from RockyMountain.rahul.net by bolero.rahul.net with SMTP id AA09361 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5); Sat, 2 Sep 1995 04:47:12 -0700 Received: by RockyMountain.rahul.net id AA16156 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 2 Sep 1995 04:39:02 -0700 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 04:39:02 -0700 From: Pete Delaney Message-Id: <199509021139.AA16156@RockyMountain.rahul.net> To: pete@kesa26.kesa.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: 4GB Drives - Another Hawk bits the dust after a a short 3 month flight; Loading NetBSD ! Cc: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hey Rodney: > > So Rodney, which 4 GB Drive would you buy? I should have said "touch wood". > > Today, if you ordered a 4G drive from me I would first try to talk you > into 2 2.2G drives to load balance if this was a single disk for a single > machine: > XX. TMG QTM11265 Quantum, Capella 2.2GB, 3.5"x1", 5400RPM, 8.5MS $ 800.00 > XX. TMG QTM11265 Quantum, Capella 2.2GB, 3.5"x1", 5400RPM, 8.5MS $ 800.00 > > If you already had disk space, or where looking for multiple 4G drives > to load balance your news spool on I would tell you: > > XX. TMG SG15230N Seagate 4.3G, 3.5"xHH, SCSI-II, 5400RPM, 9mS $1232.00 > > Yes, that is correct, Accurate Automation is actually _RECOMMENDING_ > a SeaCRATE drive. But only this ONE model at a single point on the > size curve. > > If you must have speed (and you are going to bleed to get it) I would > recommend: > XX. BAS HDMC3243W Micropolis MC3243W 4.23G 3.5"xHH 7200RPM 8.5mS $1495.00 I suspect I would have been better off bleeding. My SeaCRATE just bit the dust last night while I was installing NetBSD. It's spinning up, makes a click like it's trying to move the heads, and then spins down. Over and over again. It responds to a SCSI probe but won't stay on long enought to boot or run format on. Any suggestions? I believe they also have a 5 yr warrenty, but 3 months is bloody short. It appears my gut instinct in favor of Micropolus may have been right after all. My 1.0 and 1.7 drives haven't given me any trouble at all. -pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 06:17:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA12505 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:17:50 -0700 Received: from arl-img-4.compuserve.com (arl-img-4.compuserve.com [198.4.7.4]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA12477 ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:17:45 -0700 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id JAA01008; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 09:17:14 -0400 Date: 02 Sep 95 09:15:53 EDT From: Juantomas Garcia <100614.1273@compuserve.com> To: FreeBSD1 Cc: FreeBSD2 Subject: SONY CDROM CDU31A Message-ID: <950902131552_100614.1273_BHL118-2@CompuServe.COM> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hello, I'm a newbie with FreeBSD. I'm trying to install WCCDROM FreeBSD 2.0 January 1994. I have a sony cdu31a cdrom. How I must prepare the boot and cpio floppie? the version in the cdrom not support it (only scsi and mitsumi). Where I can get a floppie image with Sony support? There is version to do that o must be trash my CD? Thank in advance. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 06:34:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA12809 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:34:07 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA12803 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:34:03 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA15713; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:33:26 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199509021333.GAA15713@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: vernick@CS.SunySB.EDU (Michael Vernick) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509020338.XAA24086@cs.sunysb.edu> from "Michael Vernick" at Sep 1, 95 11:38:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4306 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >You see, in modern workstation disk drives you have something called > >spindle sync. Well, when you set up spindle sync you have 2 modeselect > >values you tweak. One bit says who is the sync master and who are > >the sync slaves. Then for each slave drive you tweak another value > >that is used to offset the spindles from perfect sync so that the I/O > >of block zero of a track on drive 0 of a stripe set has just finished > >the scsi bus transfer when block zero of a track on drive 1 is about to > >come under the heads. > > Why do you want the data under the heads when the SCSI bus becomes > free? Wouldn't you rather have the data already in the disk cache? If > the bus is free and the disk is transferring from the medium and out > over the bus, the bottleneck is the disk transfer rate. However if > the data had already been in the cache it can go at SCSI bus speeds. Your thinking to simple, if the data was in the cache when the I/O hit the drive it would immediatly go to data phase preventing me from issuing another I/O to the next drive. I actually _dont_ want the drive to come on the bus yet. I need to be able to get all transfer operations to the drives before _any_ drive grabs the bus for a data transfer. This causes all drives to operate as a parallel unit. To simplify my problem with this I have gone to one drive per controller for developement purposes, but am still trying to work the issue of how do I make 4 drives on one bus all operate such that I can get the commands to all 4 drives before anyone of them grabs the bus for what is a rather long data transfer phase. > As for the 85% bandwidth over the SCSI you have achieved, that is the > maximum that I can get. I am using more than 1 bus, each bus itself is only seeing a 44% load. > Rather than worry about seeks and latency > delays I simply request the same data over and over from the disks. I > bypass the file system code and make sure each request (64K, or 128 > sectors) goes back to the disk. However, the data is already in the > disk cache thus incurring no seeks, nor rotation delays. With 3,4 and > 5 disks on a single controller it maxes out at 8.5MBsec. Thus, the > controller, disk and bus overhead must account for the other 15%. If > you can get rid of that overhead, let me know. :) I can't eliminate that over head, but I sure can make it seem to be gone by using a pipeline effect. Problem is getting the timing of things right so that it is really a pipeline is rather difficult. I am not going to continue this thread much in public, it is takeing my time away from doing the research. Let it be known that I am rather deaply intrenched in this stuff and most of what is being talked about here I have a pretty much covered myself. I also have a bit of background in the hardware way of doing this stuff ala Auspex boxes where much of this technology is buried in the firmware of thier disk procesing boards (not really a controller by anyones standards, these are very smart boards). I am attempting to duplicate and reverse engineer as much of this technology as I can into a software model that will work with a specific controller/ set of hard drives initially and then expand upon that model to generalize it a bit, but it will always take deep study of the specific drives and controllers to properly tune it to pipeline correctly and operate at maxium utilization. It involves the study of latencies at all points of the pipe and control over the sequence of events to make it all humm. It may seem at times that I am asking about how to do some really counter performance types of things (turning off tag queueing and disconnect/reconnect) but this is being done to study fundemental latency delays without the side effects of these features. It is not my intention to leave them off in the final model. But without methods to study these fundemental things it makes derivation of good models very hard. I will probably have to use a software queueing modeling system to study the more complex effects these will have once they are understood at the fundemental level to derive full models. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 06:56:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA13069 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:56:10 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA13063 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:56:07 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA15738; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:55:18 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199509021355.GAA15738@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives - Another Hawk bits the dust after a a short 3 month flight; Loading NetBSD ! To: pete@RockyMountain.rahul.net (Pete Delaney) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Cc: pete@kesa26.kesa.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <199509021139.AA16156@RockyMountain.rahul.net> from "Pete Delaney" at Sep 2, 95 04:39:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2879 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [Note, do not drop me out of the CC: I am no longer on the mailling list!] > > Hey Rodney: > > > > So Rodney, which 4 GB Drive would you buy? > > I should have said "touch wood". :-(. >> Today, if you ordered a 4G drive from me I would first try to talk you >> into 2 2.2G drives to load balance if this was a single disk for a single >> machine: >> XX. TMG QTM11265 Quantum, Capella 2.2GB, 3.5"x1", 5400RPM, 8.5MS $ 800 >> XX. TMG QTM11265 Quantum, Capella 2.2GB, 3.5"x1", 5400RPM, 8.5MS $ 800 >> >> If you already had disk space, or where looking for multiple 4G drives >> to load balance your news spool on I would tell you: >> >> XX. TMG SG15230N Seagate 4.3G, 3.5"xHH, SCSI-II, 5400RPM, 9mS $1232 >> >> Yes, that is correct, Accurate Automation is actually _RECOMMENDING_ >> a SeaCRATE drive. But only this ONE model at a single point on the >> size curve. >> >> If you must have speed (and you are going to bleed to get it) I would >> recommend: >> XX. BAS HDMC3243W Micropolis MC3243W 4.23G 3.5"xHH 7200RPM 8.5mS $1495 > > I suspect I would have been better off bleeding. My SeaCRATE just bit the > dust last night while I was installing NetBSD. It's spinning up, makes > a click like it's trying to move the heads, and then spins down. Over > and over again. It responds to a SCSI probe but won't stay on long enought > to boot or run format on. It can't read the mode select pages from the reserved zone. This is bad bad news. Your drive is toast. Let it cool completely down and try again, if it does come on line, BACKIT UP! Then get it replaced, or if you can (doubt it DOA policy is usualy <30 days) get your money back. > > Any suggestions? I believe they also have a 5 yr warrenty, but 3 months is > bloody short. It appears my gut instinct in favor of Micropolus may have > been right after > all. My 1.0 and 1.7 drives haven't given me any trouble at all. I had a price reduction occur on the MC3243 and MC4243W effective 8/31, worst case looks to be $1265.00 and $1350.00, best case (and I don't know why it went from these prices yet it is $1200 and $1287.00, he must have read the wrong column on his update to me 9/1). Given that I can now sell the Micropolis 3243 series drives at a price point comparitive to the Seagate drive the segate drive has dropped from my prefered list at this point and been replaced. Boy, I just love this industry. One day I am telling people to buy a Seagate, within 36 hours I am telling them I can get them a much better Micropolis for the same or lower dollar amount :-). [My Micropolis supplier must be reading the mailling lists and noticed I was pushing Seagates and gone and got me some SPA pricing :-) :-)] -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 07:28:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA13592 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 07:28:20 -0700 Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA13586 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 07:28:19 -0700 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id KAA06343; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 10:28:17 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id KAA01015; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 10:28:16 -0400 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 10:28:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Jake Hamby cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sgmlfmt doesn't work under Perl5.001 ! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 2 Sep 1995, Jake Hamby wrote: > When I tried to run sgmlfmt(1) tonight, after upgrading from the Perl that > came with FreeBSD (4.036?) to 5.001m, it gives me these errors and then > quits: > [Bunch of errors deleted] > Is this a bug in sgmlfmt or just Perl5.001 not being backwards compatible > with 4.036? At any rate, when I installed perl it made a link from > /usr/local/bin/perl (where I installed it) to /usr/bin/perl (where the > old FreeBSD version was). My fault for allowing it to, but now what am > I supposed to do? Tomorrow I'll have a look at either fixing sgmlfmt to > work with Perl5 or just rebuilding Perl4.036 from source... Any > suggestions? Yeah, perl 4.036 and perl 5.001 aren't compatible, so it'd have been surprising if you _had_ been able to get that done. First thing you do, go back and re-enable your 4.036 installation, 'cause you're going to have to run perl (the 4.036 version) and perl5.001 side by side for a while here. If you fix it for sgmlfmt, then some other script will need it. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com > Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 08:49:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA25018 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 08:49:31 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA25009 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 08:49:28 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA22427; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 11:50:10 -0400 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 11:50:10 -0400 Message-Id: <199509021550.LAA22427@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Paul Traina From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I'm a western digital biggot, and have historically stayed away from >NE2000 cards, but I have a need to put together about 10 systems for >some emergency radio work I'm doing and I wanted to get some newer >opinions on the cards and the driver state, given the price difference >between the two designs. > >Is the ed/NE2000 flavor of the driver reliable now? Overruns? > >What kind of performance can I expect to see on a NE2000 vs a 16 bit SMC card >when running FreeBSD? > >e.g. would you dare build a diskless NFS client with a NE2000 clone? > We use VLB NE2000 cards with the ed? in our non-PCI machines and are very happy. Both our NFS server and our main gateway system use them. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 08:59:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA26574 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 08:59:18 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA26565 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 08:59:17 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA22490; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 11:59:34 -0400 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 11:59:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199509021559.LAA22490@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Bruce Evans From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>Yeah, I just looked at the driver and saw the programmed IO cruft in there >>to deal with the novell cards. Bummer. Someone mentioned that some of the >>cards really do have shared memory and can run just like the SMC and 3COM. >>Do you know anything about this? > >Shared memory on my NE2000/WD8013EBT card is 50% faster, but that isn't >saying much. The driver spends half its time bcopying to the shared >memory instead of more that half its time doing explicit i/o instructions. >The speeds are something like: > > i/o instructions: 2MB/sec > bcopy: 3MB/sec > IDE disk controllers: 3.3MB/sec PIO mode 0 (or 1?) spec > 8MHz ISA bus max: 4MB/sec > The bus transfer itself is a pretty small piece of the latency puzzle. But with a PIO card you have setup operations for every transfer...whereas with shared memory you can access individual bytes and the buffer without setup latency. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 10:20:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA00173 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 10:20:44 -0700 Received: from mpp.minn.net (mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00167 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 10:20:42 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA25544; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 12:20:18 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199509021720.MAA25544@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) To: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw (Brian Tao) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 12:20:17 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Sep 2, 95 11:28:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 727 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Brian Tao wrote: > > On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > > > After a PID rollover, the non-uniqueness of the PID namespace can fool > > this mechanism. > > Ah ha, I see now, *ding*. :) Yeah, it does seem a little > short-sighted, now that you mention it. ;-) pid_t is a long, but > PID_MAX is 30000? Are those other 17 bits used for anything at all? Which is why I suggested we raise it to 90000. That gives us 3 times as many pids, and is still the same number is digits, so no displays will be affected (e.g. ps). I suspect that the 30000 limit is left over from times gone by when pid_t was not a long. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@mpp.minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 13:13:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA03245 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:13:43 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA03239 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:13:41 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA01168; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:09:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509022009.NAA01168@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: 16-bit pids? (was Re: 16, 32, and 64bit types?) To: mpp@mpp.minn.net (Mike Pritchard) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:09:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509021720.MAA25544@mpp.minn.net> from "Mike Pritchard" at Sep 2, 95 12:20:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 303 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I suspect that the 30000 limit is left over from times gone > by when pid_t was not a long. And was shared as a short via NFS as part of the client credentials. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 13:25:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA03999 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:25:30 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA03980 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:25:24 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05005; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:24:47 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509022024.NAA05005@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: vernick@CS.SunySB.EDU, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509021333.GAA15713@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Sep 2, 95 06:33:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4774 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > >You see, in modern workstation disk drives you have something called > > >spindle sync. Well, when you set up spindle sync you have 2 modeselect > > >values you tweak. One bit says who is the sync master and who are > > >the sync slaves. Then for each slave drive you tweak another value > > >that is used to offset the spindles from perfect sync so that the I/O > > >of block zero of a track on drive 0 of a stripe set has just finished > > >the scsi bus transfer when block zero of a track on drive 1 is about to > > >come under the heads. > > > > Why do you want the data under the heads when the SCSI bus becomes > > free? Wouldn't you rather have the data already in the disk cache? If > > the bus is free and the disk is transferring from the medium and out > > over the bus, the bottleneck is the disk transfer rate. However if > > the data had already been in the cache it can go at SCSI bus speeds. > > Your thinking to simple, if the data was in the cache when the I/O > hit the drive it would immediatly go to data phase preventing me from > issuing another I/O to the next drive. I actually _dont_ want the > drive to come on the bus yet. I need to be able to get all transfer > operations to the drives before _any_ drive grabs the bus for a data > transfer. This causes all drives to operate as a parallel unit. > > To simplify my problem with this I have gone to one drive per controller > for developement purposes, but am still trying to work the issue of how > do I make 4 drives on one bus all operate such that I can get the commands > to all 4 drives before anyone of them grabs the bus for what is a rather > long data transfer phase. you can issue a SCSI seek command first to all the devices then issue a read as a second round of commands that way they will all give you instant response on the read seek1 seek2 seek3 read1-data-phase read2-data-phase read3-data-phase. seek is command 2B, though it is an optional command.. julian > > > As for the 85% bandwidth over the SCSI you have achieved, that is the > > maximum that I can get. > > I am using more than 1 bus, each bus itself is only seeing a 44% load. > > > Rather than worry about seeks and latency > > delays I simply request the same data over and over from the disks. I > > bypass the file system code and make sure each request (64K, or 128 > > sectors) goes back to the disk. However, the data is already in the > > disk cache thus incurring no seeks, nor rotation delays. With 3,4 and > > 5 disks on a single controller it maxes out at 8.5MBsec. Thus, the > > controller, disk and bus overhead must account for the other 15%. If > > you can get rid of that overhead, let me know. :) > > I can't eliminate that over head, but I sure can make it seem to be gone > by using a pipeline effect. Problem is getting the timing of things > right so that it is really a pipeline is rather difficult. > > I am not going to continue this thread much in public, it is takeing > my time away from doing the research. Let it be known that I am rather > deaply intrenched in this stuff and most of what is being talked about > here I have a pretty much covered myself. I also have a bit of background > in the hardware way of doing this stuff ala Auspex boxes where much of > this technology is buried in the firmware of thier disk procesing > boards (not really a controller by anyones standards, these are very > smart boards). > > I am attempting to duplicate and reverse engineer as much of this technology > as I can into a software model that will work with a specific controller/ > set of hard drives initially and then expand upon that model to generalize > it a bit, but it will always take deep study of the specific drives and > controllers to properly tune it to pipeline correctly and operate at > maxium utilization. It involves the study of latencies at all points > of the pipe and control over the sequence of events to make it all humm. > > It may seem at times that I am asking about how to do some really counter > performance types of things (turning off tag queueing and > disconnect/reconnect) but this is being done to study fundemental latency > delays without the side effects of these features. It is not my intention > to leave them off in the final model. But without methods to study these > fundemental things it makes derivation of good models very hard. > > I will probably have to use a software queueing modeling system to study > the more complex effects these will have once they are understood at the > fundemental level to derive full models. > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 13:32:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA04485 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:32:31 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA04471 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:32:24 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA16013; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:31:26 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199509022031.NAA16013@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Cc: vernick@CS.SunySB.EDU, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509022024.NAA05005@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 2, 95 01:24:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1589 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ... > > Your thinking to simple, if the data was in the cache when the I/O > > hit the drive it would immediatly go to data phase preventing me from > > issuing another I/O to the next drive. I actually _dont_ want the > > drive to come on the bus yet. I need to be able to get all transfer > > operations to the drives before _any_ drive grabs the bus for a data > > transfer. This causes all drives to operate as a parallel unit. > > > > To simplify my problem with this I have gone to one drive per controller > > for developement purposes, but am still trying to work the issue of how > > do I make 4 drives on one bus all operate such that I can get the commands > > to all 4 drives before anyone of them grabs the bus for what is a rather > > long data transfer phase. > you can issue a SCSI seek command first to all the devices > then issue a read as a second round of commands > that way they will all give you instant response on the read > > seek1 > seek2 > seek3 > read1-data-phase > read2-data-phase > read3-data-phase. > > seek is command 2B, though it is an optional command.. Well, I could do that if I was at the drive level, but my code sits above the standard drivers, and actually just looks like another disk driver to the upper layers. I don't even know what scsi driver is doing the I/O as far as my code is concerned. The seek abstraction is missing from the layer between me and the driver :-(. ... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 13:53:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA05362 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:53:02 -0700 Received: from cs.pdx.edu (cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.183]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA05355 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:52:56 -0700 Received: from sirius.cs.pdx.edu (root@sirius.cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.199]) by cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-12/23/94-P) with ESMTP id JAA13351; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 09:04:47 -0700 for Received: from localhost (jrb@localhost.cs.pdx.edu [127.0.0.1]) by sirius.cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-9/18/94-C) with ESMTP id JAA25394; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 09:04:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199509021604.JAA25394@sirius.cs.pdx.edu> To: Mark Dawson cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Wanted: help with radix routing code In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Sep 1995 17:44:24 BST." Date: Sat, 02 Sep 1995 09:04:44 -0700 From: James Binkley Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk These aren't electronic but information on the algorithm can be found in 2 other places, e.g., #1 TCP/IP Illustrated Volume 2. "The Implementation". Gary R. Wright and W. Richard Stevens. Addison-Wesley 1995 ISBN 0-201-63354-X. ***** Basically a companion piece to Volume 1, the protocols. Detailed analysis of the BSD tcp/ip stack. Well worth owning in my opinion if you are interested in stack internals. and #2, the kind of reference you might get from a computer scientist :-> Donald Knuth, vol. 3, "Searching and Sorting". Look for "Patricia" in the index. Apparently the algorithm was originally developed by Donald R. Morrison JACM 15 (1968), 514-534. regards, Jim Binkley jrb@cs.pdx.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 14:40:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA07290 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 14:40:09 -0700 Received: from vax.cs.pitt.edu (vax.cs.pitt.edu [136.142.79.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA07278 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 14:40:05 -0700 Received: from w2xo.pgh.pa.us by vax.cs.pitt.edu (8.6.10/1.14) for ; id RAA05975; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 17:40:09 -0400 Received: (from durham@localhost) by w2xo.pgh.pa.us (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00393; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 17:35:17 -0400 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 17:35:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Durham To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: A little strangness with 2.0.5 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I had earlier posted to the newsgroup regarding tty level buffer overflows with software ported to 2.0.5 from 1.1.5.1 that occured only occasionally with 1.1.5.1 but continually with 2.0.5. It turns out that the overflows are not the problem, but a symptom. Further investigation showed that the process was hanging with the serial ports open()ed. It was hanging on a wait() call, according to gdb. It turns out that it was a wait() call after the kill of a child process. Checking permissions found this parent: rwsr-xr-x net wheel child: rwsr-xr-x net staff This should have worked OK, but the parent could not kill the child which had been exec()'d by it. the kill(pid, -9) call was returning the "permission denied" error. After a lot of playing around, I decided that, although it shouldn't make any difference, I'd change the group of the parent to "staff". I also changed the permissions to 6755 (rwsr-sr-x) just in desperation. Now it works! I *think* what was happening was that in 1.1.5.1, the wait was occasionally causing the process to wait too long and I'd get an occasional overflow. In 2.0.5, it hangs completely when the kill() fails. This same code worked flawlessly with Ultrix 3.1 on my old Microvax II . I thought this behavior was strange enough that it might be worth asking if anyone could shed any light on why this was happening. Perhaps it has an explanation in something I was doing, but it *might* indicate something screwy with how permissions are handled with 2.0.5. My problem is "solved" at the moment, but something is not "cricket" and may bite someone else. Why should the group ID have any effect on kill permissions? Here's the code that caused the problem: case DISCONNECTED: fwdbbsstate=NOCON; if(kill(fwdstruct.pid,9) < 0) perror("fwdstate:"); wait(NULLCHAR); "fwdstruct.pid" DID contain the correct PID, BTW. -Jim Durham From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 14:40:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA07346 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 14:40:34 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA07329 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 14:40:26 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA13401; Sun, 3 Sep 1995 07:36:08 +1000 Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 07:36:08 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509022136.HAA13401@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, davidg@Root.COM Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>Shared memory on my NE2000/WD8013EBT card is 50% faster, but that isn't >>saying much. The driver spends half its time bcopying to the shared >>memory instead of more that half its time doing explicit i/o instructions. >>The speeds are something like: >> >> i/o instructions: 2MB/sec >> bcopy: 3MB/sec >> IDE disk controllers: 3.3MB/sec PIO mode 0 (or 1?) spec >> 8MHz ISA bus max: 4MB/sec > Your bus is slow. The 8013 usually has memory speeds of 4MB/sec. Isn't a slow bus the usual case? On one of my systems, the (AMI) BIOS has options for 1-5 bus wait states but not 0. I use 1. There are options to use a faster bus speed but I don't use them. On another of my systems, the (AMI) BIOS doesn't have any bus options. It apparently defaults to 2 bus wait states. I timed the speeds more carefully using microtime() before and after each relevant bcopy and insw/outsw: System 1 (486DX/33,1ws) System 2 (486DX2/66) NE2000 16 bit i/o instructions 2.0byte/us test not done WD8013EBT shared memory 3.5byte/us 3.0 byte/us IDE 16 bit i/o instructions 3.0byte/us test not done Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 14:40:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA07358 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 14:40:35 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA07344 for hackers; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 14:40:34 -0700 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 14:40:34 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509022140.OAA07344@freefall.FreeBSD.org> To: hackers Subject: boot -v error in printing.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk the BIOS geometry that is printed is misleading:: BIOS Geometries: 0:03df3f20 991 cyl, 63 heads, 32 sects 0 accounted for now, this is wrong.. the # of heads is 64.. the LAST HEAD IS 63.. 0..63=64 heads either the message or teh number should be fixed.. the same for the number of cyls.. there are 992 cyls, the last being 991.. I think this needs to be fixed and am hapy to do so as long as no-one complains about it.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 15:15:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA09212 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:15:11 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA09206 ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:15:09 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02040; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:11:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509022211.PAA02040@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: boot -v error in printing.. To: julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:11:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509022140.OAA07344@freefall.FreeBSD.org> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 2, 95 02:40:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 667 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > BIOS Geometries: > 0:03df3f20 991 cyl, 63 heads, 32 sects > 0 accounted for > > now, this is wrong.. > the # of heads is 64.. the LAST HEAD IS 63.. 0..63=64 heads > either the message or teh number should be fixed.. > the same for the number of cyls.. > there are 992 cyls, the last being 991.. > > I think this needs to be fixed and am hapy to do so as long as no-one complains about it.. I like the idea of the ("0..%d=%d", x, x+1) format as a fix for this. > 0:03df3f20 0..991=992 cyl, 0..63=64 heads, 0..31=32 sects Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 15:18:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA09290 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:18:34 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA09284 ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:18:33 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA05201; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:18:20 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509022218.PAA05201@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: boot -v error in printing.. To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509022211.PAA02040@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 2, 95 03:11:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 354 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > 0:03df3f20 0..991=992 cyl, 0..63=64 heads, 0..31=32 sects or more correctly.. 0:03df3f20 0..991=992 cyl, 0..63=64 heads, 1..32=32 sects ^^^^^^^^^^ > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 15:18:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA09326 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:18:55 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA09313 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:18:53 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02051; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:13:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509022213.PAA02051@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: A little strangness with 2.0.5 To: durham@w2xo.pgh.pa.us (Jim Durham) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:13:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jim Durham" at Sep 2, 95 05:35:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 482 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > My problem is "solved" at the moment, but something is not "cricket" > and may bite someone else. Why should the group ID have any effect > on kill permissions? A kill signal can be delivered to a process owned by your UID or a process owned by your GID. You seem to not be a memebr of the group you SGID'ed to, so exclusion groups apply. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 15:50:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA10176 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:50:38 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA10169 ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:50:37 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA03227; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:46:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509022246.PAA03227@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: boot -v error in printing.. To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:46:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509022218.PAA05201@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 2, 95 03:18:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 564 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > 0:03df3f20 0..991=992 cyl, 0..63=64 heads, 0..31=32 sects > or more correctly.. > 0:03df3f20 0..991=992 cyl, 0..63=64 heads, 1..32=32 sects > ^^^^^^^^^^ I'd think that was wrong -- actually, isn't the fact that sectors are option base one an artifact of the internal representation more than any real numbering being imposed? The option base should be uniform throughout. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 16:15:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA10567 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:15:54 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA10561 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:15:52 -0700 Received: from websurfer.etinc.com (websurfer.etinc.com [204.141.95.5]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA00201 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 19:15:57 -0400 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 19:15:57 -0400 Message-Id: <199509022315.TAA00201@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 07:36:08 +1000 >>From: Bruce Evans >>To: bde@zeta.org.au, davidg@Root.COM >>Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? >>Cc: hackers@freebsd.org >>Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org >>Precedence: bulk >> >>>>Shared memory on my NE2000/WD8013EBT card is 50% faster, but that isn't >>>>saying much. The driver spends half its time bcopying to the shared >>>>memory instead of more that half its time doing explicit i/o instructions. >>>>The speeds are something like: >>>> >>>> i/o instructions: 2MB/sec >>>> bcopy: 3MB/sec >>>> IDE disk controllers: 3.3MB/sec PIO mode 0 (or 1?) spec >>>> 8MHz ISA bus max: 4MB/sec >> >>> Your bus is slow. The 8013 usually has memory speeds of 4MB/sec. >> >>Isn't a slow bus the usual case? On one of my systems, the (AMI) BIOS >>has options for 1-5 bus wait states but not 0. I use 1. There are >>options to use a faster bus speed but I don't use them. On another of >>my systems, the (AMI) BIOS doesn't have any bus options. It apparently >>defaults to 2 bus wait states. >> All machines are different. Or more accurately all motherboards are different, even if they use the same chip sets. The tuning parameters that are available are sometimes quite deceptive and certainly not equal between two different MBs. The term "wait-state" is really not correct in this context. A wait state implies an additional bus cycle, but does not necessarily tell you what the cycle was like before adding 1. Some MBs have long address setup cycles, some have extra cycles between certain types of access cycles, and some have longer standard cycles than others. I've had motherboards that I couldn't get 20Mbs at 12Mhz and 0 wait states, and others that I've gotten over 50Mbs. Some MBs are "safe"...they work with all cards but they're pigs. Every motherboard is a new experience. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 16:39:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA11187 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:39:36 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA11181 ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:39:33 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA05329; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:39:21 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509022339.QAA05329@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: boot -v error in printing.. To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509022246.PAA03227@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 2, 95 03:46:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1144 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > 0:03df3f20 0..991=992 cyl, 0..63=64 heads, 0..31=32 sects > > or more correctly.. > > 0:03df3f20 0..991=992 cyl, 0..63=64 heads, 1..32=32 sects > > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > I'd think that was wrong -- actually, isn't the fact that sectors > are option base one an artifact of the internal representation > more than any real numbering being imposed? > > The option base should be uniform throughout. yes but we're trying to say what the BIOS thinks and may have to agree with some other DOS program before the user is happy with the number.. I've just added: printf("0..%d=%d cyl, 0..%d=%d heads, 1..%d=%d sects\n", printf(" max cyl = %d , %d heads, %d sects\n", (j >> 16),(j >> 16)+1, ((j >> 8) & 0xff),((j >> 8) & 0xff)+1, (j & 0xff), (j & 0xff)); I think it's an improvement for sure.. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 16:42:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA11432 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:42:01 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA11424 ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:41:59 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA05347; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:41:42 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509022341.QAA05347@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: boot -v error in printing.. To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509022339.QAA05329@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 2, 95 04:39:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 741 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk oops of course the 2nd line shouldn't be there.. (dammed cut-n- paste) > with some other DOS program before the user is happy with the number.. > > I've just added: > printf("0..%d=%d cyl, 0..%d=%d heads, 1..%d=%d sects\n", > DELETE THIS :) ---> printf(" max cyl = %d , %d heads, %d sects\n", > (j >> 16),(j >> 16)+1, > ((j >> 8) & 0xff),((j >> 8) & 0xff)+1, > (j & 0xff), (j & 0xff)); > > I think it's an improvement for sure.. > > > > > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 16:48:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA12156 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:48:57 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12150 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:48:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA09398 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 16:48:53 -0700 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: freefall.freebsd.org will be down for most of Monday, 4 September Date: Sat, 02 Sep 1995 16:48:53 -0700 Message-ID: <9396.810085733@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For an upgrade to the latest release of 2.1 STABLE. We hope to be done with the upgrade as soon as possible, but will need to make backups right up to the moment the machine is still operational on the net and this will therefore take some time. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 17:00:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA13146 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 17:00:23 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA13130 ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 17:00:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA09515; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 17:00:16 -0700 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org cc: postmaster@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Our friend Maher Date: Sat, 02 Sep 1995 17:00:16 -0700 Message-ID: <9513.810086416@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please do not bombard the administrators with any more traffic on this. Our annoying friend is, I'm pleased to say, now history as he has had his account disabled. We may have to put in a filter entry for `maher@aol.com' now, just to be safe.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 17:00:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA13188 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 17:00:41 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA13177 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 17:00:34 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA17851; Sun, 3 Sep 1995 09:57:26 +1000 Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 09:57:26 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509022357.JAA17851@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, dennis@et.htp.com Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>Shared memory on my NE2000/WD8013EBT card is 50% faster, but that isn't >>saying much. The driver spends half its time bcopying to the shared >>... >The bus transfer itself is a pretty small piece of the latency puzzle. But >with a PIO card you have setup operations for every transfer...whereas with >shared memory you can access individual bytes and the buffer without setup >latency. The `ed' driver does bulk copies in both cases. Random access would only be significantly faster if some of the data is never looked at and none of the data is looked at twice. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 18:05:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA16626 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 18:05:38 -0700 Received: from starfire.mn.org (starfire.skypoint.net [199.86.32.187]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA16615 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 18:05:35 -0700 From: john@starfire.mn.org Received: (from john@localhost) by starfire.mn.org (8.6.11/1.1) id UAA02051 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:05:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199509030105.UAA02051@starfire.mn.org> Subject: mt(1) erase not working on wt driver in FreeBSD-stable To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:05:25 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 765 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, I'm pretty sure I've got the whole system up to -stable, anyway, so if there were any changes between 2.0.5R and -stable that would cause this, I'll look at that first if someone points me in the right direction. Otherwise, in a nutshell: dexter# mt -f /dev/rwt0 era mt: /dev/rwt0: erase: Invalid argument I presume that this is not the desired behavior, but just in case this was superceded by something else, I thought I'd not jump to any conclusions (and yes, the same thing happens on the no-rewind device). I wrote a little single-purpose program to use the wt-specific code (ioctl(fd, WTQICMD, QIC_ERASE)) and it works just fine. John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 18:06:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA16711 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 18:06:45 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA16705 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 18:06:44 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA26913 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 21:07:34 -0400 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 21:07:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199509030107.VAA26913@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: novell ne2000 cards with FreeBSD...opinions? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>Shared memory on my NE2000/WD8013EBT card is 50% faster, but that isn't >>>saying much. The driver spends half its time bcopying to the shared >>>... >>The bus transfer itself is a pretty small piece of the latency puzzle. But >>with a PIO card you have setup operations for every transfer...whereas with >>shared memory you can access individual bytes and the buffer without setup >>latency. > >The `ed' driver does bulk copies in both cases. Random access would >only be significantly faster if some of the data is never looked at and >none of the data is looked at twice. > Except when you're reading the header. It changes the way that you implement the logic. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 18:09:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA17049 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 18:09:30 -0700 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA17040 ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 18:09:29 -0700 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199509030109.SAA17040@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: sgmlfmt doesn't work under Perl5.001 ! To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 18:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Sep 2, 95 00:19:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1566 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > When I tried to run sgmlfmt(1) tonight, after upgrading from the Perl that > came with FreeBSD (4.036?) to 5.001m, it gives me these errors and then > quits: > > buk: {170} sgmlfmt > Literal @sect now requires backslash at /usr/bin/sgmlfmt line 208, within > string > /usr/bin/sgmlfmt has too many errors. > > Is this a bug in sgmlfmt or just Perl5.001 not being backwards compatible > with 4.036? At any rate, when I installed perl it made a link from > /usr/local/bin/perl (where I installed it) to /usr/bin/perl (where the > old FreeBSD version was). My fault for allowing it to, but now what am > I supposed to do? Tomorrow I'll have a look at either fixing sgmlfmt to > work with Perl5 or just rebuilding Perl4.036 from source... Any > suggestions? > Hi, This is one of the few points that 5.X Perl breaks for 4.X scripts. Just follow the directions and escape the '@' and it will work. I would however also re-install 4.036 into /usr/bin.. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com > Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/share/FAQ/Text/FreeBSD.FAQ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 19:21:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA22399 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 19:21:57 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA22393 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 19:21:56 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA05546; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 19:21:44 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509030221.TAA05546@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: freefall.freebsd.org will be down for most of Monday, 4 September To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 19:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9396.810085733@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 2, 95 04:48:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 377 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there a reason? it seems fine as it is at the moment? is it just a test of the 2.1 system? > > For an upgrade to the latest release of 2.1 STABLE. > > We hope to be done with the upgrade as soon as possible, but will need > to make backups right up to the moment the machine is still operational > on the net and this will therefore take some time. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 20:03:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA25831 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:03:30 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user37.lightside.com [198.81.209.37]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA25825 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:03:27 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA02264; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:03:47 -0700 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:03:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: QIC-80 tape driver sucks.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is anyone using the floppy tape driver in FreeBSD for QIC-80 extended length tapes? I have a Colorado Jumbo 350 and the 'ft' program really screws up when I use the DC2120-XL (170MB) tapes. I'm also thinking about upgrading to a T1000 Travan drive which supports up to 400MB (uncompressed) tapes but I'm afraid it will have a similar problem. As soon as I can snag a copy of the ft(1) source as well as FTAPE (the Linux floppy tape driver which DOES work with these tapes) I should be able to hack it into submission. Actually I'd prefer to put floppy tape support entirely in the kernel where it belongs (so I can use 'mt') but I'm afraid I'm not a good enough kernel hacker for that. I'll post up to this list when I've got a patch, but I'd like to know first if anyone has already solved this problem? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 20:05:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA25993 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:05:43 -0700 Received: from tango.rahul.net (tango.rahul.net [192.160.13.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA25987 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:05:42 -0700 Received: from bolero.rahul.net by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA08934 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:01:32 -0700 Received: from RockyMountain.rahul.net by bolero.rahul.net with SMTP id AA24501 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5); Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:01:20 -0700 Received: by RockyMountain.rahul.net id AA16556 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:00:44 -0700 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:00:44 -0700 From: Pete Delaney Message-Id: <199509030300.AA16556@RockyMountain.rahul.net> To: pete@RockyMountain.rahul.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: 4GB Drives - Another Hawk bits the dust after a a short 3 month flight; Loading NetBSD ! Cc: pete@kesa26.kesa.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I suspect I would have been better off bleeding. My SeaCRATE just bit the > > dust last night while I was installing NetBSD. It's spinning up, makes > > a click like it's trying to move the heads, and then spins down. Over > > and over again. It responds to a SCSI probe but won't stay on long enought > > to boot or run format on. > > It can't read the mode select pages from the reserved zone. This is bad bad > news. Your drive is toast. Let it cool completely down and try again, if > it does come on line, BACKIT UP! Then get it replaced, or if you can (doubt > it DOA policy is usualy <30 days) get your money back. > > > > Any suggestions? I believe they also have a 5 yr warrenty, but 3 months is > > bloody short. It appears my gut instinct in favor of Micropolus may have > > been right after > > all. My 1.0 and 1.7 drives haven't given me any trouble at all. > > I had a price reduction occur on the MC3243 and MC4243W effective 8/31, > worst case looks to be $1265.00 and $1350.00, best case (and I don't know > why it went from these prices yet it is $1200 and $1287.00, he must have > read the wrong column on his update to me 9/1). > > Given that I can now sell the Micropolis 3243 series drives at a price > point comparitive to the Seagate drive the segate drive has dropped from > my prefered list at this point and been replaced. Boy, I just love this > industry. One day I am telling people to buy a Seagate, within 36 hours > I am telling them I can get them a much better Micropolis for the same > or lower dollar amount :-). > > [My Micropolis supplier must be reading the mailling lists and noticed > I was pushing Seagates and gone and got me some SPA pricing :-) :-)] So it appears I have to take it to SeaCrate and get a replacement. Once I get it is it possible to switch up to a Micropolus? -pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 20:40:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA28827 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:40:20 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA28821 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:40:18 -0700 Received: from Jupiter.mcs.net (Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.89]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA05832; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:39:27 -0500 Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.mcs.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA05020; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:38:46 -0500 From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199509030338.WAA05020@Jupiter.mcs.net> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives - Another Hawk bits the dust after a a short 3 month flight; Loading NetBSD ! To: pete@RockyMountain.rahul.net (Pete Delaney) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:38:46 -0500 (CDT) Cc: pete@RockyMountain.rahul.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, pete@kesa26.kesa.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <199509030300.AA16556@RockyMountain.rahul.net> from "Pete Delaney" at Sep 2, 95 08:00:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1817 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > [My Micropolis supplier must be reading the mailling lists and noticed > > I was pushing Seagates and gone and got me some SPA pricing :-) :-)] > > So it appears I have to take it to SeaCrate and get a replacement. Once I get > it is it possible to switch up to a Micropolus? > > -pete Warning! I have had THREE Micropolis bearing failures on drives which are less than one year old in the last 72 hours! In that same period, NO OTHER DRIVE from other makers has given me trouble. I like the Seagate Hawk series, and the 'Cudas *IF YOU CAN KEEP THEM COOL*. The Barracudas are great drives, but if they overheat, they're toast. These suckers run REALLY hot, so you need supplemental cooling (like an enclosure with multiple fans designed for this stuff). A typical PC mounting WILL fail due to overheating. The Hawks run with about 30% less power, and throw about 30% less heat as a result. They will run in a PC cabinet with no problems, assuming you pay moderate attention to airflow. 4G Hawks are ~$1200, while the 'Cudas add another $200-300 to that price. The primary difference is that the Barracuda is a 7200 RPM design, while the Hawk is a 5400 RPM one. I never used to like Seagate, but since the Hawk and Barracuda intro, I've become a convert. The only other drives I would consider after this are the Micropolis "AV" series -- they are considerably higher quality disks than the "non-AV" models. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's *Three STAR A* Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 20:42:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA29089 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:42:56 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA29069 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:42:52 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id XAA00866; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:35:11 -0400 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:35:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Majordomo accessible archive of cvs messages To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk its now ready for you to use. the first archive was created today at 8pm freefall time. new archive wills appear at 8pm everyday on freefall. included below is an example of getting an archive file jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 >>>> who cvs-all-digest Members of list 'cvs-all-digest': >>>> index cvs-all-digest total 32 -rw-rw---- 1 root majordom 16124 Sep 2 20:02 v01.n001 >>>> get cvs-all-digest v01.n001 List 'cvs-all-digest' file 'v01.n001' is being sent as a separate message. >>>> end END OF COMMANDS ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:38:05 -0700 From:Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG To: jmb@kryten.Atinc.COM Subject: Majordomo file: list 'cvs-all-digest' file 'v01.n001' -- From: owner-cvs-all-digest To: cvs-all-digest@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: cvs-all-digest V1 #1 Reply-To: /dev/null Errors-To: owner-cvs-all-digest Precedence: bulk cvs-all-digest Saturday, 2 September 1995 Volume 01 : Number 001 In this issue: cvs commit: src/sbin/i386/fdisk fdisk.8 fdisk.c cvs commit: src/sbin/restore dirs.c cvs commit: src/sys/i386/isa/sound ad1848.c dmabuf.c local.h pas2_pcm.c sb16_dsp.c sound.doc soundcard.c cvs commit: src/sys/i386/conf LINT files.i386 Re: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/isa/sound ad1848.c dmabuf.c local.h pas2_pcm.c sb16_dsp.c sound.doc soundcard.c Re: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/isa/sound ad1848.c dmabuf.c local.h pas2_pcm.c sb16_dsp.c sound.doc soundcard.c cvs commit: src/sys/i386/conf LINT files.i386 cvs commit: src/usr.bin/chpass chpass.1 chpass.c pw_yp.c pw_yp.h cvs commit: src/usr.bin/passwd local_passwd.c passwd.c yp_passwd.c cvs commit: src/lib/libc/gen getpwent.c getgrent.c getnetgrent.c cvs commit: CVSROOT cvsedit cvs commit: src/lib/libc/yp yplib.c cvs commit: src/share/man/man4 yp.4 cvs commit: src/share/man/man5 passwd.5 cvs commit: src/sys/miscfs/devfs devfs_vnops.c cvs commit: src/share/doc/handbook hw.sgml cvs commit: src/libexec/uucpd uucpd.c cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/ppp Makefile auth.c chat.c command.c defs.h main.c modem.c vars.c cvs commit: src/usr.bin/window wwinit.c cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/lpr/lpd printjob.c cvs commit: src/sys/miscfs/procfs procfs_vnops.c cvs commit: src/usr.bin/chpass chpass.1 cvs commit: src/sys/miscfs/fdesc fdesc_vfsops.c cvs commit: src/sys/miscfs/fdesc fdesc_vnops.c Re: cvs commit: src/share/FAQ/Text CONTRIB.FreeBSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joerg Wunsch Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:00:15 -0700 Subject: cvs commit: src/sbin/i386/fdisk fdisk.8 fdisk.c joerg 95/09/01 11:00:15 Modified: sbin/i386/fdisk fdisk.8 fdisk.c Log: Update to the slices era. Make /dev/rfoo0 the defaults, not /dev/rfoo0d. Scan a list of devices instead of insisting on all the world being wd0. Allow for disk names to be specified (e.g. `sd0') instead of full path names only. Sync the man page with the reality. ------------------------------ From: Joerg Wunsch Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:09:21 -0700 [SNIP] From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 20:45:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA29367 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:45:27 -0700 Received: from vax.cs.pitt.edu (vax.cs.pitt.edu [136.142.79.5]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA29347 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:45:21 -0700 Received: from w2xo.pgh.pa.us by vax.cs.pitt.edu (8.6.10/1.14) id XAA06836; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:45:25 -0400 Received: (from durham@localhost) by w2xo.pgh.pa.us (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA00626; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:40:33 -0400 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:40:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Durham To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A little strangness with 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <199509022213.PAA02051@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, 2 Sep 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > My problem is "solved" at the moment, but something is not "cricket" > > and may bite someone else. Why should the group ID have any effect > > on kill permissions? > > A kill signal can be delivered to a process owned by your UID or a > process owned by your GID. You seem to not be a memebr of the group > you SGID'ed to, so exclusion groups apply. > > Terry, I should perhaps have phrased it better. I should have said..."seeing as both the parent and child were SUID 'net' , why would changing the GID matter? I have to admit I don't know about exclusion groups. I'll have to do a little reading on that. Thanks, -Jim Durham From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 21:58:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA05002 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 21:58:00 -0700 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA04992 ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 21:57:59 -0700 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199509030457.VAA04992@freefall.FreeBSD.org> Subject: IDE CD's (Re: Silence on the Western Front...) To: jdl@chrome.onramp.net (Jon Loeliger) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 21:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 718 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Well this is a question but.... Where I'm now working all they have are Austin P5-90 with 500M IDE, Diamond Stealth 2M DRAM and an IDE CD-ROM either hooked into the MB "OR" connected to a "Media Magic". The Media Magic is a sound board that has connections for Mitsumi/IDE/two other types. Has anyone else seen on of these cards and if so, can we drive one? ob-ide-cd-rom: Has anyone compiled a list of know GOOD ide CD-ROMs? Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/share/FAQ/Text/FreeBSD.FAQ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 21:58:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA05055 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 21:58:21 -0700 Received: from starfire.mn.org (starfire.skypoint.net [199.86.32.187]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA05040 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 21:58:18 -0700 From: john@starfire.mn.org Received: (from john@localhost) by starfire.mn.org (8.6.11/1.1) id XAA00505; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:58:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199509030458.XAA00505@starfire.mn.org> Subject: Re: mt(1) erase not working on wt driver in FreeBSD-stable To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:58:05 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199509030232.TAA05567@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 2, 95 07:32:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 937 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer wrote: > the wt driver needs to be educated about the generic tape > version of the same call.. > (which didn't previously exist, hense the special one) Umm, but, I'd been using it quite happily in FreeBSD 1.1.5... In fact, I was rather surprised that it didn't work, since I was accustomed to using it. Hmmm. Also, the code for it was defined in the /usr/include/sys/mtio.h. It is right under an undated comment from Andreas and in a section only compiled for FreeBSD. Anyway, it was trivial to add to the wt driver. I lifted the code nearly verbatim from the QIC-specific call, dropped it into the BSD-mt section, and it works great. Shall I submit a diff? > >... > > direction. Otherwise, in a nutshell: > > dexter# mt -f /dev/rwt0 era > > mt: /dev/rwt0: erase: Invalid argument > >... John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 22:07:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA05926 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:07:21 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA05918 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:07:20 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA10537; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:02:53 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509030502.WAA10537@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: A little strangness with 2.0.5 To: durham@w2xo.pgh.pa.us (Jim Durham) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:02:53 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jim Durham" at Sep 2, 95 11:40:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1415 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > A kill signal can be delivered to a process owned by your UID or a > > process owned by your GID. You seem to not be a memebr of the group > > you SGID'ed to, so exclusion groups apply. > > I should perhaps have phrased it better. I should have said..."seeing as > both the parent and child were SUID 'net' , why would changing the > GID matter? > > I have to admit I don't know about exclusion groups. I'll have to do a little > reading on that. If you are the owner and world and group permission are granted, but owner permission is not, then you are prevented access. If you aren't the owner, but are a member of the group, and the group is prevented access, even if access is permitted to the world, you are prevented access. If you aren't the owner or a member of the group, then if world access is not allowed, then access is prevented. You can put users in a group "nogames", set the permissions on the games dir such that there is owner and world access but not group access, and set the group ownership to "nogames" and memebers of the group will be prevented access. Perhaps the credentials for the kill are being applied vs. the process credentials of the process as if it were a file access. I'd have to send a bit of time looking (or you would 8-)). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 22:52:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA09890 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:52:07 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA09877 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:52:03 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA16295; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:51:13 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199509030551.WAA16295@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives - Another Hawk bits the dust after a a short 3 month flight; Loading NetBSD ! To: pete@RockyMountain.rahul.net (Pete Delaney) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: pete@RockyMountain.rahul.net, pete@kesa26.kesa.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <199509030300.AA16556@RockyMountain.rahul.net> from "Pete Delaney" at Sep 2, 95 08:00:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 973 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > [Note, this cc: list is rather long, but I am not on -hackers any more and am not aware that all of these other folks are :-(] ... >> > Any suggestions? I believe they also have a 5 yr warrenty, but 3 months is >> > bloody short. It appears my gut instinct in favor of Micropolus may have >> > been right after >> > all. My 1.0 and 1.7 drives haven't given me any trouble at all. >> ... > So it appears I have to take it to SeaCrate and get a replacement. Once I get > it is it possible to switch up to a Micropolus? Not sure what you mean by ``switch up'', I can not take your SeaCrate in for trade against a new Micropolis, and I doubt any one would. Certainly no one reading this thread is going to :-) :-). I can sell you a brand new Micropolis drive, but that is about all I can do for you. > -pete -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 2 23:19:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA12255 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:19:42 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA12243 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:19:38 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA16309; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:18:34 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199509030618.XAA16309@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 4GB Drives - Another Hawk bits the dust after a a short 3 month flight; Loading NetBSD ! To: karl@Mcs.Net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: pete@RockyMountain.rahul.net, pete@kesa26.kesa.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net In-Reply-To: <199509030338.WAA05020@Jupiter.mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Sep 2, 95 10:38:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4850 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [Note I am not on this mailling list, do not drop me from the CC: rgrimes] >>> [My Micropolis supplier must be reading the mailling lists and noticed >>> I was pushing Seagates and gone and got me some SPA pricing :-) :-)] >> >> So it appears I have to take it to SeaCrate and get a replacement. Once I get >> it is it possible to switch up to a Micropolus? >> >> -pete > > Warning! > > I have had THREE Micropolis bearing failures on drives which are less than > one year old in the last 72 hours! When ever you present failure data like this please include full details, Ie, model number of the drive is a _minimum_ piece of data. Also unless you happen to have a failure analysis lab you are _assuming_ the noise you hear is a bearing failure, and it may very well be that the bearing has failed, but without the lab you don't know why it failed (contamination, over heating, design flaw, damaged during manufacturing, etc.) Given that 3 drives failed in a 72 hour period I would say, IMHO, this was a field induced failure (ie, something happened in comon to these 3 drives at the end users sight). It just has a horrible probablity of being much else with the little data given. Have these drives been phsically touched in the period 96 hours prior to failure? Ie where they moved from one chassis to another, where they in the same box even? Attached to the same computer? What has Micropolis had to say about this? Or have you even contacted them yet? > In that same period, NO OTHER DRIVE from other makers has given me trouble. Statistically insignificant data has been given again :-(. List manufacture and model and quantity and POH as a minimum set of data to form any type of statistical comparison. > I like the Seagate Hawk series, and the 'Cudas *IF YOU CAN KEEP THEM COOL*. The Hawk is okay, and already stated as my model of choice on a price/size/ performance/reliabity point at the 4G mark. The Barracuda is off the bottom of the scale given the ``KEEP THEM COOL'' requirement and the significant initial product failure rates from Seagate gave them a very bad name in many communities. Even though Seagate has corrected the head meltdown/media flake problem that sour taste remains in many peoples mouths. > The Barracudas are great drives, but if they overheat, they're toast. These > suckers run REALLY hot, so you need supplemental cooling (like an enclosure > with multiple fans designed for this stuff). All drives fail if operated outside of there environmental specification for an extended period, some drives fair better than others when operated outside of the temperature range. It is easy to get outside of the temp spec on a Barracuda drive without some very good cooling due to the heat dissapation of the drive. This is a recurring thread, already discussed to death in this or other freebsd mailling lists. > A typical PC mounting WILL fail due to overheating. Also true of many workstations, and infact true of just about anything that was not specifically designed to handle the heat dissapation of the Barracuda. SGI's official statement is ``don't put them inside the system boxes, but them in external enclosures''. AAC's official statement is ``don't use them at all''. > The Hawks run with about 30% less power, and throw about 30% less heat as a > result. They will run in a PC cabinet with no problems, assuming you pay > moderate attention to airflow. And spins at a 30% slower rate :-) :-) :-). > 4G Hawks are ~$1200, while the 'Cudas add another $200-300 to that price. > The primary difference is that the Barracuda is a 7200 RPM design, while > the Hawk is a 5400 RPM one. Your price points are at least 30 days old. I have approximately 300 units of ST15230N (Hawk 4G) at my disposal with a qty 1 price of $1100.00 + $4.00 insurance + $7.00 2nd day fedex + $5.00 COD to US locations ($1116.00 in your door). Quantity discounting starts at 5 units. Shipping and COD fee is independent of the quantity. Delta on wide drives should be <$100.00, but I don't have a ``current'' price on the ST15230W, last price puts it at $1250.00 > I never used to like Seagate, but since the Hawk and Barracuda intro, I've > become a convert. The only other drives I would consider after this are the > Micropolis "AV" series -- they are considerably higher quality disks than > the "non-AV" models. I am not a big fan of Seagate. I will use there drive models only after they have proven themselves in the field. The Hawk has, the Barracuda has defanitly not. Every drive manufacture can have lemon models, and/or bad lots. Everyone can make mistakes. Seems Seagate has made a lot of them over the years :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD