From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 00:12:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA16300 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 00:12:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from leibniz.math.psu.edu (root@leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA16292 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 00:12:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from hausdorff.math.psu.edu (cross@hausdorff.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.5]) by leibniz.math.psu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA28736 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:12:21 -0500 From: Dan Cross Received: (cross@localhost) by hausdorff.math.psu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA11249 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:12:19 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:12:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199512100812.DAA11249@hausdorff.math.psu.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Getting involved... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm getting very interested in helping out with the FreeBSD effort. I've been lurking for quite a while now, and running FreeBSD machines in several places since June. Let me just say now, publically, that I am really impressed with a lot of stuff, especially the things that have happened in the kernel. Also, the stuff that didn't get shipped with 4.4BSD-Lite is really top notch.. (ie, the block io stuff in vfs_bio.c is especially nifty just as an example.) At anyrate, I'd really like to get involved with active development, can someone point me in the right direction to get started? Thanks! - Dan C. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 00:49:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA19095 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 00:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA19090 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 00:49:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA08286; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 00:46:53 -0800 To: Dan Cross Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting involved... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:12:19 EST." <199512100812.DAA11249@hausdorff.math.psu.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 00:46:53 -0800 Message-ID: <8284.818585213@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Great! We can definitely use all the help we can get. A good starting place for information on this is chapter 17 of the FreeBSD handbook, see: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/submitters.html Jordan > I'm getting very interested in helping out with the FreeBSD effort. I've > been lurking for quite a while now, and running FreeBSD machines in several > places since June. > > Let me just say now, publically, that I am really impressed with a lot of > stuff, especially the things that have happened in the kernel. Also, the > stuff that didn't get shipped with 4.4BSD-Lite is really top notch.. > (ie, the block io stuff in vfs_bio.c is especially nifty just as an example.) > > At anyrate, I'd really like to get involved with active development, can > someone point me in the right direction to get started? Thanks! > > - Dan C. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 03:38:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02902 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:38:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02888 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:37:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:37:54 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199512101137.DAA02888@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers, rgrimes Subject: FBSD support inc. Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I've been thinking about setting up a company (actually more than one) to give commercial support for freeBSD. The idea would be that the company would have on it's books, people from all over the world, and would have clients all over the world.. people working with FreeBSD Support inc. would be on a part-time basis, and would 'log in' through the internet whenever available. this would produce a pool of people who could be called upon when there are problems. support would be in several forms 1/ call us on the phone and discuss it 2/ email support contract 3/ personal visits (depending on who lives near) 4/ "We log in and fix it" support One part of the idea is that Australians and Asians are lounging around at home and available for moonlighting while Europe is in business hours, and Europeans are at home available when Americans are at work and americans.. etc. If we had people in enough places, I envision the following set-up at each 'employee's home.. 1/ 1 permanent Internet link, (or as close as we can get to it) e.g. ISDN line or at least 28.8 link to a well connected ISP. 2/ 1 secondary telephone line with 28.8 modem 3/ 1 PC running FreeBSD connected to both lines.. (permanently up) 4/ a (voice) phone line most people who would be involved in theis would already have at least 2 of these and many would already have all 4. One of the support options we offer is ON_LINE support and administration.. When we agree to support such a site/machine we set the machine up to have the serial console on a modem and possibly have a 'reset box' as well. (maye we can ask someone to hit the 'big button') who ever get's assigned to a job, wherever they are, connects to the closest internet site, and dials into the custommer site from there.. thus a russian wouldn't have to do an international call to the US to support a US system.. he might connect to here and call from (say) my-place.. (My guess is that we'd use encrypte tenet as standard through the company.. (sssh don't tell the french) possibly we could make arrangements to have a line placed in client's sites for 'cross-support' if there was no member near-by.. We would offer 'By the hour' support of freeBSD systems (and attached systems if we are comfortable with them) and would keep them up-to-date. If we could get even a littel work, it would be enough to be able to get the 'members' better equipment for ISP connectivity. I envision that initial contacts would have to be via the local person in the case of an emergency call, but 'ongoing supg support issues and 'grunt work' would probably be performed by remote personell. if the client signs up for 'remote support' we either put them on-line (they might want to do this anyhow) or we install a modem line to the system (unless they already have one..) as part of the cost.. mostly I think this would be if a school set up a whole LAB of machines or something.. Mostly I think people would sign up for the "5 hours of support " package or something.. certainly I've heard of people not wanting to use FreeBSD in commenrcial environments because of "Lack of proffessional support". Comments? julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 03:42:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA03332 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:42:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from madonna.indecent.com (root@madonna.indecent.com [152.160.131.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA03320 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rob@localhost) by madonna.indecent.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA05179 for hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:38:05 -0500 Posted-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:38:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199512101138.GAA05179@madonna.indecent.com> Subject: gcc 2.7.2-compiled kernel To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:38:01 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Misiak X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, I've upgraded to gcc 2.7.2 (don't ask me why -- I guess I just always like to have the latest and greatest :) and can't compile the (2.1r) kernel with it. The make always fails at locore.s. I've tried using the default cpp rather than the 2.7.2 cpp, but that doesn't help. Since cpp doesn't seem to be the problem with this, I can't figure out what is, since the as that I'm using is the default one. I've tried playing around with some command line options, but that didn't make any difference. Any ideas? Rob Make gives me: cpp -DLOCORE -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DI486_CPU -DFDSEEKWAIT="16" -DMAXCONS=16 -DHARDFONTS -DAUTO_EOI_1 -DPROCFS -DMSDOSFS -DLFS -DCD9660 -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DUCONSOLE -DSYSVMSG -DSYSVSEM -DSYSVSHM -DCOMPAT_43 -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 ../../i386/i386/locore.s | as -o locore.o ../../i386/i386/locore.s: Assembler messages: ../../i386/i386/locore.s:155: Error: Rest of line ignored. First ignored character is `b'. ../../i386/i386/locore.s:155: Error: invalid character '_' in opcode ../../i386/i386/locore.s:567: Error: operands given don't match any known 386 instruction ../../i386/i386/locore.s:568: Error: Unimplemented segment type 6 in parse_operand ../../i386/i386/locore.s:585: Error: operands given don't match any known 386 instruction ../../i386/i386/locore.s:586: Error: Unimplemented segment type 6 in parse_operand ../../i386/i386/locore.s:595: Error: Unimplemented segment type 6 in parse_operand ../../i386/i386/locore.s:597: Error: operands given don't match any known 386 instruction ../../i386/i386/locore.s:617: Error: Unimplemented segment type 6 in parse_operand ../../i386/i386/locore.s:627: Error: Unimplemented segment type 6 in parse_operand ../../i386/i386/locore.s:637: Error: Unimplemented segment type 6 in parse_operand ../../i386/i386/locore.s:642: Error: Unimplemented segment type 6 in parse_operand ../../i386/i386/locore.s:697: Error: Unimplemented segment type 6 in parse_operand ../../i386/i386/locore.s:706: Error: operands given don't match any known 386 instruction ../../i386/i386/locore.s:777: Error: Unimplemented segment type 6 in parse_operand ../../i386/i386/locore.s:796: Error: Rest of line ignored. First ignored character is `s'. ../../i386/i386/locore.s:796: Error: invalid character '_' in opcode *** Error code 1 Stop. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 05:24:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA10884 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 05:24:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com (mail04.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA10877 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 05:24:37 -0800 (PST) From: BoysChamps@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA02335 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 08:24:07 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 08:24:07 -0500 Message-ID: <951210082405_68902115@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Volunteer Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I would like to volunteer to help develop FreeBSD. My E-mail address is boyschamps@aol.com. Joe G From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 06:12:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA13383 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13375 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:12:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA29925; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 01:08:57 +1100 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 01:08:57 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512101408.BAA29925@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, rob@indecent.com Subject: Re: gcc 2.7.2-compiled kernel Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >I've upgraded to gcc 2.7.2 (don't ask me why -- I guess I just always like >to have the latest and greatest :) and can't compile the (2.1r) kernel with it. >The make always fails at locore.s. I've tried using the default cpp rather than >the 2.7.2 cpp, but that doesn't help. Since cpp doesn't seem to be the problem It would work if you really used the default cpp. Don't install gcc's cpp anywhere in the path. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 06:20:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA13682 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:20:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13675 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:20:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA08968; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:20:28 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199512101420.GAA08968@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Registration for a Work in progress slot To: wips@usenix.org Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:20:28 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, In your Winter Usenix flier you request that people reserve slots in the Works in Progress section by emailing to here.. (wips@usenix.org) So here goes... I'd like to request a slot to have a quick talk about what we're doing in FreeBSD on a devices filesystem..(DEVFS) this is an important piece in the jigsaw puzzle that is a more dynamically loadable modular kernel. As devices are found or reconfigured, the device files in devfs change to reflect what devices are available. looking exaclty like a dynamic /dev something similar can be seen in solaris, but this is a differnt implimentation.. Hopefully this is all the information you need ? I think their might be some other projects from FreeBSD that might be interested in puting up a 10 minute slot as well... +----------------------------------+ ______ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / On assignment | / \ julian@ref.tfs.com +------>x USA \ in a very strange | ( OZ ) 300 lakeside Dr. oakland CA. \___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/ USA+(510) 645-3137(wk) \_/ \\ v Presently on holiday in Australia but still getting email.. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 06:27:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA13946 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:27:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from madonna.indecent.com (root@madonna.indecent.com [152.160.131.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13936 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:27:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rob@localhost) by madonna.indecent.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA00447; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:22:54 -0500 Posted-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:22:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199512101422.JAA00447@madonna.indecent.com> Subject: Re: gcc 2.7.2-compiled kernel To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:22:50 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199512101408.BAA29925@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Dec 11, 95 01:08:57 am From: Rob Misiak X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans ("Re: gcc 2.7.2-compiled kernel") wrote: > > It would work if you really used the default cpp. Don't install gcc's cpp > anywhere in the path. I've tried that.. I still get the same errors. :( Rob From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 06:32:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA14278 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA14272 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:32:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA09225; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:31:44 -0800 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, rgrimes@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:37:54 PST." <199512101137.DAA02888@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:31:44 -0800 Message-ID: <9223.818605904@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I've been thinking about setting up a company (actually more than one) > to give commercial support for freeBSD. I think this is a fine idea, and not exactly one we haven't been over before, but I still wouldn't want to start with quite so complicated a picture as this. When you're selling support, you're selling a service that *has* to work for each and every customer who's forked over good money for it or the whole thing breaks down and you've got the better business bureau calling you on the phone (or worse, somebody's legal dept). This means that it's got to be possible to quantify just how long any given service call will take to respond to and also to make sure that each and every call is tracked and resolved properly. Even simply measuring this is non-trivial, and the difficulty increases exponentially with the number of staff (and cubed by their distance from you). You also want to be able to easily determine where you're spending the most money and time since support will eat you up (and make you unprofitable) very quickly if you don't keep things carefully streamlined. Basically, where tech support is concerned, the KISS principle should be obeyed in spades. I'd much prefer to see a smaller organization with 3-4 people in one central location that can be easily managed, not some international hydra that's a management nightmare. Doing international FreeBSD project management is one thing - we don't need to be accountable to anyone and can afford to play a number of things fast-and-loose. Add accountability to the equation and the rules change quite significantly. International tech support is also nice to have, but don't forget that BSDI got away without a U.K. office for quite some time until they'd grown large enough to actually staff one effectively. I don't think that international customers are that unused to the idea of calling the U.S., as much of a pain as that might sometimes be. They certainly don't seem to show any reluctance to calling WC's tech support hotline at all hours of the day and night, and that's just for $39 CDROMs! :-) I certainly don't mean to rain on Julian's parade, but the picture he paints, as rosy as it might seem on the surface, seems an absolute nightmare of complexity as I try to envision all the various details required. I certainly wouldn't want to manage such a system, and I would also be worried about such a venture collapsing under its own weight and perhaps tarnishing the project's reputation as well (whether or not "the project" actually had anything to do with it). I'm not saying that any one piece of the proposal Julian's made here is necessarily unworkable, I'm saying that all of them together simply adds up to too much weight. Too many variables, too many things that can go wrong, and in any startup like this Murphy practically has a seat on the board. Why deliberately invite the lightning to strike? 3-4 people in one central location and a small number of customers for whom good service can be demonstrably given, that's how I'd start out. Simple and eminently more manageable. Once this has been *proven* to work, and the various painful startup lessons learned, then it could be cautiously and conservatively scaled up. As I said, I don't think we should be fooled into thinking that our success as a distributed project can be trivially leveraged into success as a distributed commercial organization. The challenges are entirely different, and if a commercial org dropped even 1/10 of the number of issues on the floor as we do now (and can afford to, since we're not charging anyone any money), it'd be dead meat in 6 months - the founders bankrupt and the project's reputation perhaps irrepairably damaged. Tread carefully, I beg of you! Don't let idealism, no matter how well-intentioned, overshadow good sense here! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 06:49:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA15840 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:49:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA15835 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:49:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Sun, 10 Dec 1995 08:49:49 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 08:49:41 -0600 To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I feel that the group is making a big mistake by using /usr/src as the location of the -current tree available for sup'ping. This assumes that the system is interested in only the absolute latest -current version of the source. I think that this is in error. /usr/src should be reserved for the system's own sources. They might be 2.1-RELEASE, for example. Similarly, assuming that -stable is on /a/src is equally freefall-centric. I advocate that we designate another tree location for the various source trees. For example, ~FreeBSD/current, ~FreeBSD/stable, ~FreeBSD/cvs, etc. The individual system is then free to make these entries links to whatever location is appropriate for their configuration. While we are at it, -stable should not be a tree in its own right. It is really an alias for some other branch. As a result, I would place the tree in ~FreeBSD/2.1 and link ~FreeBSD/stable to it. This is particularly important when you consider that we are likely to have at least three trees active at the same time. These would be the STABLE-RELEASE, the new STABLE-CANDIDATE, and the EXPERIMENTAL/UNSTABLE (-current) trees. I can envision that each of these trees might be changing at the same time if an important security bug fix were to be found while we are still shaking out a new stable-candidate. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 07:10:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA17173 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 07:10:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA17157 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 07:10:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA24486; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:09:44 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA11467; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:09:43 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA05828; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:00:10 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512101400.PAA05828@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: uucp installation To: jesusr@abaforum.es (Jesus Rodriguez) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:00:09 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512100114.CAA26243@abf.abaforum.es> from "Jesus Rodriguez" at Dec 10, 95 02:14:57 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk ˇhola! As Jesus Rodriguez wrote: > > Hi everybody. I have installed freebsd 2.0.5 like ftp and web server. I made > the X-user installation. I would like use freebsd like gateway (or router) > between two ethernet networks. I've been trying to do it but i can't. How > can i do it???. Put the command sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1 somewhere into your /etc/netstart. (It will be available as a /etc/sysconfig-controlled option in later releases.) > Another question, how can i install uucp???. Well, i think it's installed, > because i have uucico and .sample configurations files in /etc/uucp, but > when i read them, all files says that i have to compile them. The sample files have been taken from the stand-alone Taylor UUCP package. It's an integral part of {Free,Net}BSD and Linux however, so you don't have to compile it yourself. For more information than what's already contained in the sample files under /etc/uucp, run the command info uucp (Unfortunately, under 2.0.5, the arrow keys didn't work. You have to navigate by ^N/^P.) > La informática es cosa de locos... Really? Yo soy uno loco... :-) ˇchao! et 73! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 07:32:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA18786 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 07:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from knobel.gun.de (knobel-ip.gun.de [192.109.159.141]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA18742 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 07:31:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA10201; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:31:33 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199512101531.QAA10201@knobel.gun.de> Subject: why the hell did sup remove many of my ports directories ? To: jkh@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:31:32 +0100 (MET) Priority: U X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! What's going on with sup ? When I tried to sup the ports collection, I got the following result ... SUP 8.26 (4.3 BSD) for file ports-supfile at Dec 10 14:45:10 SUP Upgrade of ports-misc at Sun Dec 10 14:45:13 1995 SUP Fileserver 9.13 (4.3 BSD) 12371 on freefall.FreeBSD.org at 14:45:13 SUP Fileserver supports compression. SUP Requesting changes since Dec 5 14:22:16 1995 SUP: Access denied to ports/misc SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/patches/patch-ab,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/patches/patch-ac,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/scripts SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/amanda/scripts/post-configure,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/astrolog SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/astrolog/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/astrolog/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/astrolog/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/astrolog/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/astrolog/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/astrolog/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/astrolog/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/astrolog/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/astrolog/pkg/INSTALL,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/astrolog/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/buffer SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/buffer/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/buffer/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/buffer/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/buffer/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/buffer/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/buffer/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/buffer/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/buffer/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/buffer/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/chord SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/chord/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/chord/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/chord/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/chord/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/chord/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/chord/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/chord/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/chord/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/chord/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/colorls SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/colorls/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/colorls/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/colorls/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/colorls/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/colorls/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/colorls/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/colorls/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/colorls/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/colorls/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/git SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/git/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/git/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/git/files/gitrc.cons25.patch,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/git/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/git/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/git/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/git/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/git/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/git/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ical SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ical/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ical/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ical/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ical/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ical/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ical/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ical/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ical/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ical/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell/patches/patch-ab,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell/scripts SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/ispell/scripts/configure,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/kp SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/kp/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/kp/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/kp/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/kp/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/kp/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/kp/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/kp/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/less SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/less/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/less/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/less/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/less/files/patch-ab,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/less/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/less/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/less/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/less/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/less/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/less/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc/patches/patch-ab,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc/patches/patch-ac,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mc/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/scripts SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/scripts/makeitapatch,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mmv/scripts/unshar,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/patches/patch-ab,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/patches/patch-ac,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/patches/patch-ad,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/patches/patch-ae,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/mshell/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/recode SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/recode/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/recode/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/recode/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/recode/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/recode/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/recode/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/recode/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/rman SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/rman/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/rman/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/rman/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/rman/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/rman/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/rman/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/rman/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/rman/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/rman/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen/patches/patch-ab,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen/patches/patch-ac,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/screen/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/team SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/team/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/team/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/team/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/team/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/team/patches/patch-a,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/team/patches/patch-b,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/team/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/team/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/team/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/team/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/patches/patch-ab,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/pkg/PLIST,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/scripts SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkinfo/scripts/configure,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkman SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkman/Makefile,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkman/files SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkman/files/md5,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkman/patches SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkman/patches/patch-aa,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkman/pkg SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkman/pkg/COMMENT,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkman/pkg/DESCR,v SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/tkman/pkg/PLIST,v SUP Deleted file misc/tkman/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/tkman/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/tkman/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/tkman/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/tkman/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/tkman/patches SUP Deleted file misc/tkman/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/tkman/files SUP Deleted file misc/tkman/Makefile SUP: Unable to delete directory misc/tkman SUP Deleted file misc/tkinfo/scripts/configure SUP Deleted directory misc/tkinfo/scripts SUP Deleted file misc/tkinfo/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/tkinfo/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/tkinfo/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/tkinfo/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/tkinfo/patches/patch-ab SUP Deleted file misc/tkinfo/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/tkinfo/patches SUP Deleted file misc/tkinfo/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/tkinfo/files SUP Deleted file misc/tkinfo/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/tkinfo SUP Deleted file misc/team/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/team/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/team/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/team/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/team/patches/patch-b SUP Deleted file misc/team/patches/patch-a SUP Deleted directory misc/team/patches SUP Deleted file misc/team/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/team/files SUP Deleted file misc/team/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/team SUP Deleted file misc/screen/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/screen/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/screen/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/screen/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/screen/patches/patch-ac SUP Deleted file misc/screen/patches/patch-ab SUP Deleted file misc/screen/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/screen/patches SUP Deleted file misc/screen/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/screen/files SUP Deleted file misc/screen/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/screen SUP Deleted file misc/rman/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/rman/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/rman/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/rman/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/rman/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/rman/patches SUP Deleted file misc/rman/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/rman/files SUP Deleted file misc/rman/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/rman SUP Deleted file misc/recode/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/recode/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/recode/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/recode/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/recode/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/recode/files SUP Deleted file misc/recode/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/recode SUP Deleted file misc/mshell/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/mshell/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/mshell/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/mshell/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/mshell/patches/patch-ae SUP Deleted file misc/mshell/patches/patch-ad SUP Deleted file misc/mshell/patches/patch-ac SUP Deleted file misc/mshell/patches/patch-ab SUP Deleted file misc/mshell/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/mshell/patches SUP Deleted file misc/mshell/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/mshell/files SUP Deleted file misc/mshell/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/mshell SUP Deleted file misc/mmv/scripts/unshar SUP Deleted file misc/mmv/scripts/makeitapatch SUP Deleted directory misc/mmv/scripts SUP Deleted file misc/mmv/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/mmv/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/mmv/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/mmv/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/mmv/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/mmv/patches SUP Deleted file misc/mmv/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/mmv/files SUP Deleted file misc/mmv/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/mmv SUP Deleted file misc/mc/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/mc/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/mc/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/mc/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/mc/patches/patch-ac SUP Deleted file misc/mc/patches/patch-ab SUP Deleted file misc/mc/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/mc/patches SUP Deleted file misc/mc/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/mc/files SUP Deleted file misc/mc/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/mc SUP Deleted file misc/less/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/less/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/less/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/less/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/less/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/less/patches SUP Deleted file misc/less/files/patch-ab SUP Deleted file misc/less/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/less/files SUP Deleted file misc/less/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/less SUP Deleted file misc/kp/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/kp/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/kp/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/kp/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/kp/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/kp/files SUP Deleted file misc/kp/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/kp SUP Deleted file misc/ispell/scripts/configure SUP Deleted directory misc/ispell/scripts SUP Deleted file misc/ispell/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/ispell/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/ispell/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/ispell/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/ispell/patches/patch-ab SUP Deleted directory misc/ispell/patches SUP Deleted file misc/ispell/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/ispell/files SUP Deleted file misc/ispell/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/ispell SUP Deleted file misc/ical/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/ical/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/ical/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/ical/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/ical/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/ical/patches SUP Deleted file misc/ical/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/ical/files SUP Deleted file misc/ical/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/ical SUP Deleted file misc/git/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/git/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/git/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/git/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/git/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/git/patches SUP Deleted file misc/git/files/gitrc.cons25.patch SUP Deleted directory misc/git/files SUP Deleted file misc/git/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/git SUP Deleted file misc/colorls/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/colorls/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/colorls/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/colorls/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/colorls/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/colorls/patches SUP Deleted file misc/colorls/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/colorls/files SUP Deleted file misc/colorls/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/colorls SUP Deleted file misc/chord/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/chord/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/chord/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/chord/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/chord/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/chord/patches SUP Deleted file misc/chord/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/chord/files SUP Deleted file misc/chord/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/chord SUP Deleted file misc/buffer/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/buffer/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/buffer/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/buffer/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/buffer/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/buffer/patches SUP Deleted file misc/buffer/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/buffer/files SUP Deleted file misc/buffer/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/buffer SUP Deleted file misc/astrolog/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/astrolog/pkg/INSTALL SUP Deleted file misc/astrolog/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/astrolog/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/astrolog/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/astrolog/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/astrolog/patches SUP Deleted file misc/astrolog/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/astrolog/files SUP Deleted file misc/astrolog/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/astrolog SUP Deleted file misc/amanda/scripts/post-configure SUP Deleted directory misc/amanda/scripts SUP Deleted file misc/amanda/pkg/PLIST SUP Deleted file misc/amanda/pkg/DESCR SUP Deleted file misc/amanda/pkg/COMMENT SUP Deleted directory misc/amanda/pkg SUP Deleted file misc/amanda/patches/patch-ac SUP Deleted file misc/amanda/patches/patch-ab SUP Deleted file misc/amanda/patches/patch-aa SUP Deleted directory misc/amanda/patches SUP Deleted file misc/amanda/files/md5 SUP Deleted directory misc/amanda/files SUP Deleted file misc/amanda/Makefile SUP Deleted directory misc/amanda SUP Deleted file misc/Makefile And so on.... -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 09:21:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25094 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:21:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25089 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:21:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA28497; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:35:40 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:35:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199512101735.MAA28497@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. Cc: julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan writes.... >Julian Elischer writes... >> I've been thinking about setting up a company (actually more than one) >> to give commercial support for freeBSD. > >I think this is a fine idea, and not exactly one we haven't been over >before, but I still wouldn't want to start with quite so complicated a >picture as this. > >When you're selling support, you're selling a service that *has* to >work for each and every customer who's forked over good money for it >or the whole thing breaks down and you've got the better business >bureau calling you on the phone (or worse, somebody's legal dept). >This means that it's got to be possible to quantify just how long any >given service call will take to respond to and also to make sure that >each and every call is tracked and resolved properly. Even simply >measuring this is non-trivial, and the difficulty increases >exponentially with the number of staff (and cubed by their distance >from you). You also want to be able to easily determine where you're >spending the most money and time since support will eat you up (and >make you unprofitable) very quickly if you don't keep things carefully >streamlined. I want to point out some of the less obvious issues with such an endeavor, not just in providing the service but regarding the impact that it might have on the image of FreeBSD. There are clear problems with the whole concept, and I also think that you might by overestimating the value of support for a non commercial product. This issue with "free" products is not necessarily that there is no support, but that there is no reasonable expectation that all included features of the product will work well, and that there is a questionable future and no business plan for the product. Basically, the issue is that there are no guarantees that anything will work, and I don't think that your "support" proposal will change that in any way unless you are willing to support (and be willing to take the heat) when virtually anything doesn't work. A real danger is that the "free" list support that is now available (and quite good) will diminish because many of the good contributors will be bound to a commercial obligation. This could hurt the positive word of mouth that points out that the list support for FreeBSD is in many ways better than the commercial support provided by other UNIX vendors. There is also a widespread understanding that UN*X support generally sucks, even when you pay a LOT for it, and its certainly no worse than what you get from Microsoft with their new 900 numbers. Success is much more about marketing than it is support. (i.e. Microsoft) The fact that support exists is a good marketing issue, but I don't think that people who are trying FreeBSD are junking it because the support is no good. Substantial hand-holding is a thing of the past....if the product doesn't work out of the box you basically lose. Remember that 3rd party contracts are only generally purchased AFTER the customer decides they will use the product. In order to be successful, you will have to have your own release (Caldera, Red Hat...sound familiar?) or count on other people to get the customers up and running....which is by far the most time-consuming aspect of support. Remember that virutally all commercial products include installation support....how will you handle this for a "free" product? I think that a product is either commercial or its not commercial, and unless you can guarantee that some set of features works and will continue to work, you will have difficulty having much impact. The bridge from non-commercial to commercial involves a lot more than just getting a bunch of people together with a dial-up or ISDN connection. Remember also that you will be supporting much more than just a SCSI driver or a mail reader, you will be expected to support complex networking issues that require much more than a single machine in someone's basement. People will want to know why BGP4 on gateD doesn't work well with a wellfleet router, and why their ISDN connections drop off intermittently when and only when connecting to some obscure version of NT server. They won't be happy if you tell them that one or more of their issues isn't supported, even if its well mapped out in a contract. We have 30 PCs in our lab, Pentiums, 486's, 386's with LAN monitors, serial data scopes, various CSU/DSUs and modems, 10 baseT, BNC, AUI, every kind of cable, etc, etc just to support a couple of WAN cards (and Jordan wants to know why they cost more than $120.). Support is no simple task. It is by far the most time consuming aspect of our business. Designing cards, software....easy stuff. But once you make a sale you're obligated to help that customer no matter how stupid and annoying he or she is. Just be prepared. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 09:42:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25760 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25755 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:42:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA02970; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:40:04 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199512101740.SAA02970@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: nv and cuseeme mode To: multimedia@star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org, frederick@parc.xerox.com Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:40:04 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I reported a few days ago problems in using the CU_SeeMe encoding in nv 3.3.beta. Further investigation shows that there are endiannes problems in some of the encoding/decoding routines. I have instrumented the encoding and decoding routines, found out that: * if a geometry mismatch is found, the encoding routine is not invoked; in order to enable the PAL mode to work, I had to change slightly the tests at the beginning of CUSeeMe_Encode_Reconfig() * the incoming packet type in CUSeeMe_Decode is seen as 256 instead of 1. Swapping the bytes makes the rest of the code be called, but evidently there are other parts of the code where endiannes is important. I would work on the code myself, but now knowing what the exact format should be (i.e. travelling data should be little/big endian ?) I cannot be very helpful, and might even scramble the code more than it is now. Some help from the author is definitely necessary! Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 09:54:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA26203 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:54:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA26198 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:54:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA23540; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:53:34 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512101753.LAA23540@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:53:33 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Dec 10, 95 08:49:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I feel that the group is making a big mistake by using /usr/src as the > location of the -current tree available for sup'ping. > > This assumes that the system is interested in only the absolute latest > -current version of the source. I think that this is in error. /usr/src > should be reserved for the system's own sources. They might be 2.1-RELEASE, > for example. > > Similarly, assuming that -stable is on /a/src is equally freefall-centric. > > I advocate that we designate another tree location for the various source trees. > For example, ~FreeBSD/current, ~FreeBSD/stable, ~FreeBSD/cvs, etc. > The individual system is then free to make these entries links to whatever > location is appropriate for their configuration. I did precisely this, I used "/sup/current" "/sup/stable", etc. as the base for my sup operation here, and these are actually symlinks into my /ftp tree, so everything magically works. We should maybe consider discussing the best way to do this, to help minimize confusion ("What? Your sup collections are in /xyz?") and the number of changes one needs to make to a supfile to make it do the right thing. I, for one, would prefer to see my convention of "/sup/current" etc. mainly because I would hesitate to make a user name for freebsd, and in caps yet. :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 10:06:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA26587 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:06:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26582 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:06:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecco.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.196]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14565(6)>; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:05:58 PST Received: from localhost by ecco.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <16136>; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:05:53 -0800 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: multimedia@star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nv and cuseeme mode In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 95 09:40:04 PST." <199512101740.SAA02970@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:05:38 PST From: Ron Frederick Message-Id: <95Dec10.100553pst.16136@ecco.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199512101740.SAA02970@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> you write: > I reported a few days ago problems in using the CU_SeeMe encoding > in nv 3.3.beta. Further investigation shows that there are endiannes > problems in some of the encoding/decoding routines. I have > instrumented the encoding and decoding routines, found out that: > > * if a geometry mismatch is found, the encoding routine is not invoked; > in order to enable the PAL mode to work, I had to change slightly > the tests at the beginning of CUSeeMe_Encode_Reconfig() > As far as I have been told, CUSeeMe is only capable of coping with sizes 160x120 and 320x240. This isn't something I have control over in nv. The only way to make it work with PAL inputs, or other inputs that do not match one of its supported sizes, is to actually take the incoming image and crop or rescale it to one of the supported sizes before it is encoded. No patch or workaround to this problem is available at this time. > * the incoming packet type in CUSeeMe_Decode is seen as 256 instead of > 1. Swapping the bytes makes the rest of the code be called, but > evidently there are other parts of the code where endiannes is > important. > This is a known bug. There's also another endian bug in the decode routine which causes it to display a distorted image, with alternating pixels swapped. Patches for both of these are below: *** cuseeme_decode.c.orig Mon Mar 21 17:41:04 1994 --- cuseeme_decode.c Wed Apr 5 23:33:28 1995 *************** *** 23,33 **** --- 23,37 ---- */ #include + #include #include "sized_types.h" #include "vid_image.h" #include "vid_code.h" #include "cuseeme.h" + /* Mildly gross but moderately portable test for littleendian machines */ + #define LITTLEENDIAN (ntohl(0x12345678) != 0x12345678) + static int16 intraRowBytes[16] = { -1, -1, 0, 1, *************** *** 144,150 **** 0x11111000, 0x11111001, 0x11111010, 0x11111011, 0x11111100, 0x11111101, 0x11111110, 0x11111111 }; ! static uint16 cvt4bitTo8bit[256] = { 0xffff, 0xffee, 0xffdd, 0xffcc, 0xffbb, 0xffaa, 0xff99, 0xff88, 0xff77, 0xff66, 0xff55, 0xff44, 0xff33, 0xff22, 0xff11, 0xff00, 0xeeff, 0xeeee, 0xeedd, 0xeecc, 0xeebb, 0xeeaa, 0xee99, 0xee88, --- 148,154 ---- 0x11111000, 0x11111001, 0x11111010, 0x11111011, 0x11111100, 0x11111101, 0x11111110, 0x11111111 }; ! static uint16 pixpairMSB[256] = { 0xffff, 0xffee, 0xffdd, 0xffcc, 0xffbb, 0xffaa, 0xff99, 0xff88, 0xff77, 0xff66, 0xff55, 0xff44, 0xff33, 0xff22, 0xff11, 0xff00, 0xeeff, 0xeeee, 0xeedd, 0xeecc, 0xeebb, 0xeeaa, 0xee99, 0xee88, *************** *** 178,203 **** 0x00ff, 0x00ee, 0x00dd, 0x00cc, 0x00bb, 0x00aa, 0x0099, 0x0088, 0x0077, 0x0066, 0x0055, 0x0044, 0x0033, 0x0022, 0x0011, 0x0000 }; static uint8 *CUSeeMe_DecodeRow(uint16 *ip, uint8 *data, int code, uint32 *rowdatap) { int intra; uint32 pix, rowdata; rowdata = *rowdatap; if (code == 0) { pix = data[0]; rowdata = pix << 24; ! ip[0] = cvt4bitTo8bit[pix]; pix = data[1]; rowdata += pix << 16; ! ip[1] = cvt4bitTo8bit[pix]; pix = data[2]; rowdata += pix << 8; ! ip[2] = cvt4bitTo8bit[pix]; pix = data[3]; rowdata += pix; ! ip[3] = cvt4bitTo8bit[pix]; data += 4; } else { rowdata -= interRowDiff[code]; --- 182,244 ---- 0x00ff, 0x00ee, 0x00dd, 0x00cc, 0x00bb, 0x00aa, 0x0099, 0x0088, 0x0077, 0x0066, 0x0055, 0x0044, 0x0033, 0x0022, 0x0011, 0x0000 }; + static uint16 pixpairLSB[256] = + { 0xffff, 0xeeff, 0xddff, 0xccff, 0xbbff, 0xaaff, 0x99ff, 0x88ff, + 0x77ff, 0x66ff, 0x55ff, 0x44ff, 0x33ff, 0x22ff, 0x11ff, 0x00ff, + 0xffee, 0xeeee, 0xddee, 0xccee, 0xbbee, 0xaaee, 0x99ee, 0x88ee, + 0x77ee, 0x66ee, 0x55ee, 0x44ee, 0x33ee, 0x22ee, 0x11ee, 0x00ee, + 0xffdd, 0xeedd, 0xdddd, 0xccdd, 0xbbdd, 0xaadd, 0x99dd, 0x88dd, + 0x77dd, 0x66dd, 0x55dd, 0x44dd, 0x33dd, 0x22dd, 0x11dd, 0x00dd, + 0xffcc, 0xeecc, 0xddcc, 0xcccc, 0xbbcc, 0xaacc, 0x99cc, 0x88cc, + 0x77cc, 0x66cc, 0x55cc, 0x44cc, 0x33cc, 0x22cc, 0x11cc, 0x00cc, + 0xffbb, 0xeebb, 0xddbb, 0xccbb, 0xbbbb, 0xaabb, 0x99bb, 0x88bb, + 0x77bb, 0x66bb, 0x55bb, 0x44bb, 0x33bb, 0x22bb, 0x11bb, 0x00bb, + 0xffaa, 0xeeaa, 0xddaa, 0xccaa, 0xbbaa, 0xaaaa, 0x99aa, 0x88aa, + 0x77aa, 0x66aa, 0x55aa, 0x44aa, 0x33aa, 0x22aa, 0x11aa, 0x00aa, + 0xff99, 0xee99, 0xdd99, 0xcc99, 0xbb99, 0xaa99, 0x9999, 0x8899, + 0x7799, 0x6699, 0x5599, 0x4499, 0x3399, 0x2299, 0x1199, 0x0099, + 0xff88, 0xee88, 0xdd88, 0xcc88, 0xbb88, 0xaa88, 0x9988, 0x8888, + 0x7788, 0x6688, 0x5588, 0x4488, 0x3388, 0x2288, 0x1188, 0x0088, + 0xff77, 0xee77, 0xdd77, 0xcc77, 0xbb77, 0xaa77, 0x9977, 0x8877, + 0x7777, 0x6677, 0x5577, 0x4477, 0x3377, 0x2277, 0x1177, 0x0077, + 0xff66, 0xee66, 0xdd66, 0xcc66, 0xbb66, 0xaa66, 0x9966, 0x8866, + 0x7766, 0x6666, 0x5566, 0x4466, 0x3366, 0x2266, 0x1166, 0x0066, + 0xff55, 0xee55, 0xdd55, 0xcc55, 0xbb55, 0xaa55, 0x9955, 0x8855, + 0x7755, 0x6655, 0x5555, 0x4455, 0x3355, 0x2255, 0x1155, 0x0055, + 0xff44, 0xee44, 0xdd44, 0xcc44, 0xbb44, 0xaa44, 0x9944, 0x8844, + 0x7744, 0x6644, 0x5544, 0x4444, 0x3344, 0x2244, 0x1144, 0x0044, + 0xff33, 0xee33, 0xdd33, 0xcc33, 0xbb33, 0xaa33, 0x9933, 0x8833, + 0x7733, 0x6633, 0x5533, 0x4433, 0x3333, 0x2233, 0x1133, 0x0033, + 0xff22, 0xee22, 0xdd22, 0xcc22, 0xbb22, 0xaa22, 0x9922, 0x8822, + 0x7722, 0x6622, 0x5522, 0x4422, 0x3322, 0x2222, 0x1122, 0x0022, + 0xff11, 0xee11, 0xdd11, 0xcc11, 0xbb11, 0xaa11, 0x9911, 0x8811, + 0x7711, 0x6611, 0x5511, 0x4411, 0x3311, 0x2211, 0x1111, 0x0011, + 0xff00, 0xee00, 0xdd00, 0xcc00, 0xbb00, 0xaa00, 0x9900, 0x8800, + 0x7700, 0x6600, 0x5500, 0x4400, 0x3300, 0x2200, 0x1100, 0x0000 }; + static uint8 *CUSeeMe_DecodeRow(uint16 *ip, uint8 *data, int code, uint32 *rowdatap) { int intra; uint32 pix, rowdata; + uint16 *pixpair; + pixpair = LITTLEENDIAN? pixpairLSB : pixpairMSB; + rowdata = *rowdatap; if (code == 0) { pix = data[0]; rowdata = pix << 24; ! ip[0] = pixpair[pix]; pix = data[1]; rowdata += pix << 16; ! ip[1] = pixpair[pix]; pix = data[2]; rowdata += pix << 8; ! ip[2] = pixpair[pix]; pix = data[3]; rowdata += pix; ! ip[3] = pixpair[pix]; data += 4; } else { rowdata -= interRowDiff[code]; *************** *** 209,218 **** rowdata += longDiff[data[0]]; data++; } ! ip[0] = cvt4bitTo8bit[rowdata >> 24]; ! ip[1] = cvt4bitTo8bit[(rowdata >> 16) & 0xff]; ! ip[2] = cvt4bitTo8bit[(rowdata >> 8) & 0xff]; ! ip[3] = cvt4bitTo8bit[rowdata & 0xff]; } *rowdatap = rowdata; --- 250,259 ---- rowdata += longDiff[data[0]]; data++; } ! ip[0] = pixpair[rowdata >> 24]; ! ip[1] = pixpair[(rowdata >> 16) & 0xff]; ! ip[2] = pixpair[(rowdata >> 8) & 0xff]; ! ip[3] = pixpair[rowdata & 0xff]; } *rowdatap = rowdata; *** cuseeme_encode.c.orig Wed Jun 1 15:52:29 1994 --- cuseeme_encode.c Wed Apr 5 23:27:24 1995 *************** *** 338,346 **** height = h; if ((w == CUSEEME_FULLWIDTH) && (h == CUSEEME_FULLHEIGHT)) { ! cuseeme_type = CUSEEME_FULLSIZE; } else if ((w == CUSEEME_HALFWIDTH) && (h == CUSEEME_HALFHEIGHT)) { ! cuseeme_type = CUSEEME_HALFSIZE; } else { cuseeme_type = 0; return; --- 338,346 ---- height = h; if ((w == CUSEEME_FULLWIDTH) && (h == CUSEEME_FULLHEIGHT)) { ! cuseeme_type = htons(CUSEEME_FULLSIZE); } else if ((w == CUSEEME_HALFWIDTH) && (h == CUSEEME_HALFHEIGHT)) { ! cuseeme_type = htons(CUSEEME_HALFSIZE); } else { cuseeme_type = 0; return; -- Ron Frederick frederick@parc.xerox.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 10:16:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA26867 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26860 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:16:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id SAA27907 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:50:56 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id SAA12907 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:50:56 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA07859 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:33:45 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512101733.SAA07859@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: uucp installation To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:33:44 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512101400.PAA05828@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Dec 10, 95 03:00:09 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As J Wunsch wrote: > > =A1hola! Oooops! Who's converting these messages into quoted-printable? Quoted-printable was one of the worst mistakes of MIME (not only in my opinion). People who are hanging off mailers that don't preserve the 8th bit get what they deserve, and the rest of the world will get a message that's readable with any X11 screen, pcvt console, or even Winglows ``terminal'' program. I beg to the person who's been doing this to revert the change. (I cannot track down the location; the message left my mailer and the next two mailers on my way with ``8bit'' encoding intact, so it must be somewhere on the way to freefall or back from it.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 10:28:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27699 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:28:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27694 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:28:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id MAA23593; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:27:51 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199512101827.MAA23593@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:27:51 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Dec 10, 95 12:14:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I think that we are basically in agreement. Yes :-) > My only objection to your > scheme is that it is FreeBSD-centric. What if I also want to support > NetBSD? I therefore feel that "FreeBSD" (or "freebsd", I happen to prefer > the caps, but that is personal preference) needs to appear somewhere in the > path. The important thing from the user's point of view is that by simply > changing "sup.freebsd.org" into "sup.uk.freebsd.org" or "sup1.freebsd.org", > he can get the same results. And further, having gotten the results, I can > turn around and supserve them to someone else. I would certainly agree. I have zero objection to it! ;-) > Further, those results should not step on the underlying system. We should > be prepared to support multiple versions of the OS and multiple OS's in the > archive scheme without them stepping on each other. > > I would be happy with /FreeBSD/2.1/src or /sup/FreeBSD/cvs or ... Well I prefer to put things under functional hierarchies. I propose we consider /sup/FreeBSD/current /sup/FreeBSD/stable /sup/FreeBSD/cvs unless someone has a better reason. Matter of fact, I have someone on their way down to the office now, to discuss these very issues, and he will be setting up and helping to maintain the archive system here at sol.net. > I think we also need to rethink the "ports" situation a bit. > Although it is generally the case that the latest port of xxxx will work > with any of the FreeBSD-2.x releases, we will come to a point where the > port for 2.1 is different from the port for 2.2. How do we reasonably > assure that the user easily gets the correct version for his system? This has always bothered me as well. However it seems like you need a lot of space to maintain the distfiles :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 10:40:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA28348 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:40:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28334 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:40:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id TAA03070; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:37:50 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199512101837.TAA03070@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: nv and cuseeme mode To: frederic@parc.xerox.com (Ron Frederick) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:37:50 +0100 (MET) Cc: multimedia@star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <95Dec10.100553pst.16136@ecco.parc.xerox.com> from "Ron Frederick" at Dec 10, 95 10:05:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > As far as I have been told, CUSeeMe is only capable of coping with sizes > 160x120 and 320x240. This isn't something I have control over in nv. The only > way to make it work with PAL inputs, or other inputs that do not match one of > its supported sizes, is to actually take the incoming image and crop or > rescale it to one of the supported sizes before it is encoded. > > No patch or workaround to this problem is available at this time. Right. What I did was to modify the "meteor_grab.c" sources to always return a NTSC geometry. Cropping within nv is probably more portable. BTW, is CUSeeme black&white only ? > > * the incoming packet type in CUSeeMe_Decode is seen as 256 instead of > > 1. Swapping the bytes makes the rest of the code be called, but > > evidently there are other parts of the code where endiannes is > > important. > > > This is a known bug. There's also another endian bug in the decode routine > which causes it to display a distorted image, with alternating pixels swapped. > Patches for both of these are below: Thanks for the patches. One comment, the large tables used in the code *might* be initialized at run time depending on the endiannes of the system. Probably easier to maintain. Satoshi, could you please update the port of nv with the patches from Ron ? Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 10:48:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA28883 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:48:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA28877 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 10:48:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:14:24 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:14:16 -0600 To: Joe Greco From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I, rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) wrote: >> I advocate that we designate another tree location for the various >>source trees. >> For example, ~FreeBSD/current, ~FreeBSD/stable, ~FreeBSD/cvs, etc. >> The individual system is then free to make these entries links to whatever >> location is appropriate for their configuration. Joe Greco replied: >I did precisely this, I used "/sup/current" "/sup/stable", etc. as the base >for my sup operation here, and these are actually symlinks into my /ftp >tree, so everything magically works. > >We should maybe consider discussing the best way to do this, to help >minimize confusion ("What? Your sup collections are in /xyz?") and the >number of changes one needs to make to a supfile to make it do the right >thing. > >I, for one, would prefer to see my convention of "/sup/current" etc. mainly >because I would hesitate to make a user name for freebsd, and in caps yet. I think that we are basically in agreement. My only objection to your scheme is that it is FreeBSD-centric. What if I also want to support NetBSD? I therefore feel that "FreeBSD" (or "freebsd", I happen to prefer the caps, but that is personal preference) needs to appear somewhere in the path. The important thing from the user's point of view is that by simply changing "sup.freebsd.org" into "sup.uk.freebsd.org" or "sup1.freebsd.org", he can get the same results. And further, having gotten the results, I can turn around and supserve them to someone else. Further, those results should not step on the underlying system. We should be prepared to support multiple versions of the OS and multiple OS's in the archive scheme without them stepping on each other. I would be happy with /FreeBSD/2.1/src or /sup/FreeBSD/cvs or ... I think we also need to rethink the "ports" situation a bit. Although it is generally the case that the latest port of xxxx will work with any of the FreeBSD-2.x releases, we will come to a point where the port for 2.1 is different from the port for 2.2. How do we reasonably assure that the user easily gets the correct version for his system? ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 11:15:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA01099 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:15:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01094 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecco.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.196]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14684(1)>; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:14:35 PST Received: from localhost by ecco.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <16136>; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:14:27 -0800 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: multimedia@star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nv and cuseeme mode In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 95 10:37:50 PST." <199512101837.TAA03070@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:14:20 PST From: Ron Frederick Message-Id: <95Dec10.111427pst.16136@ecco.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199512101837.TAA03070@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> you write: > Right. What I did was to modify the "meteor_grab.c" sources to always > return a NTSC geometry. Cropping within nv is probably more portable. > Since the other compression modes (which are much nicer, anyway) support the full PAL resolution, you probably don't want to throw away anything in the grabber... > BTW, is CUSeeme black&white only ? > Yes -- with only 16 grey levels, in fact. I put in the hooks for CUSeeMe to allow nv users to watch some CUSeeMe conferences that were being reflected onto the MBONE a few years ago. I later added the encoder support when it looked like CUSeeMe might start supporting multicast & RTP. However, that hasn't happened in the way I expected, so the encoder isn't really all that interesting. > Thanks for the patches. One comment, the large tables used in the > code *might* be initialized at run time depending on the endiannes > of the system. Probably easier to maintain. > I considered that, and it would be fairly easy to create them at startup. However, they were first supplied to me in precomputed form, and it doesn't take much space to leave them that way... -- Ron Frederick frederick@parc.xerox.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 11:17:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA01299 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:17:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA01290 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:17:53 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:17:45 -0600 To: Joe Greco From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> I think that we are basically in agreement. > >Yes :-) > >> My only objection to your >> scheme is that it is FreeBSD-centric. What if I also want to support >> NetBSD? I therefore feel that "FreeBSD" (or "freebsd", I happen to prefer >> the caps, but that is personal preference) needs to appear somewhere in the >> path. The important thing from the user's point of view is that by simply >> changing "sup.freebsd.org" into "sup.uk.freebsd.org" or "sup1.freebsd.org", >> he can get the same results. And further, having gotten the results, I can >> turn around and supserve them to someone else. > >I would certainly agree. I have zero objection to it! ;-) > >> Further, those results should not step on the underlying system. We should >> be prepared to support multiple versions of the OS and multiple OS's in the >> archive scheme without them stepping on each other. >> >> I would be happy with /FreeBSD/2.1/src or /sup/FreeBSD/cvs or ... > >Well I prefer to put things under functional hierarchies. I propose we >consider > >/sup/FreeBSD/current >/sup/FreeBSD/stable >/sup/FreeBSD/cvs We are saying the same thing. I meant that we might want to group things under /FreeBSD rather than /sup/FreeBSD in that, at least in theory, I could get the source via CTM or some other mechanism. I still feel that .../stable should simply be a link to the "real" .../2.1 tree. That way, I don't have to move the trees around when someone suddenly decides that it is time to change the "-stable" branch and I want to keep the 2.1 tree. > >unless someone has a better reason. Matter of fact, I have someone on their >way down to the office now, to discuss these very issues, and he will be >setting up and helping to maintain the archive system here at sol.net. > >> I think we also need to rethink the "ports" situation a bit. >> Although it is generally the case that the latest port of xxxx will work >> with any of the FreeBSD-2.x releases, we will come to a point where the >> port for 2.1 is different from the port for 2.2. How do we reasonably >> assure that the user easily gets the correct version for his system? > >This has always bothered me as well. However it seems like you need a lot >of space to maintain the distfiles :-) 1) It is not necessary that every site maintain all the dist files. 2) Folding of the common trees IS necessary. Since distfiles are an independent naming system, they should not be under the source trees, but rather a peer to them. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 11:34:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03767 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:34:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03752 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:34:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA01469; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:32:42 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199512101932.MAA01469@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Getting involved... To: cross@math.psu.edu (Dan Cross) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:32:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199512100812.DAA11249@hausdorff.math.psu.edu> from "Dan Cross" at Dec 10, 95 03:12:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm getting very interested in helping out with the FreeBSD effort. I've > been lurking for quite a while now, and running FreeBSD machines in several > places since June. > > Let me just say now, publically, that I am really impressed with a lot of > stuff, especially the things that have happened in the kernel. Also, the > stuff that didn't get shipped with 4.4BSD-Lite is really top notch.. > (ie, the block io stuff in vfs_bio.c is especially nifty just as an example.) > > At anyrate, I'd really like to get involved with active development, can > someone point me in the right direction to get started? Thanks! There is someone who wants keyclick. Lord knows why. This would be a good first project, with a minimum of kernel code involved. It would require gaining a small understanding of the console driver and how ioctl()'s are implemented (if you didn't know already). It *would* potentially require that you could build an X server from the XFree86 sources, but probably it would only require the sources to see what the X server is looking for so that the finished code would be compatible with "just working the next time X is released". Here is my response to the guy. I am including some of his text without permission, which I don't usually do, but since it is unattributed this shouldn't embarrass him: [ ... keyclick ... ] > > /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/syscons.c > > Found it; then realized two things. One, my new > box isn't isa, it is a PCI-bus. Prob'y makes no > difference, though, right? The console driverr > oughtta work for any bus...(?) Two, I've become > addicted to having _many_ xterms running. And > syscons.c is probably just for the monochrone > while-on-black console. No. The X server goes through the console for it's keyboard I/O and for some aspects of its video setup and staging for console switching. So the audio hooks that are missing in syscons.c are the ioctl's for the X server with regard to the console device it has open. And that's syscons. > Besides, on my 2.0.5 vers, I see nothing having > to do with keyclicks. Uh, that's because it doesn't support keyclicks (probably why you don't hear them 8-)). > CLK (cap lock) yes, and > tons more. But nothing for clicks/cks/clks. > Or anywhere else. In spkr.c, in tone(); but > nothing to drive is. So: lost. You will need to add a flag, probably to the per virtual console structure, that defaults to 0 and can be set to 0 or 1 by an ioctl you add. Then you will need to make the keyboard key_down event input routine look at the flag right before it returns. Besure it's *inside* the key repeat loop. And if a flag is there, you will need to make a call at a particular freq. that sounds like a square wave click, probably, with a sort duration, to the same code that does the bell. Then you will need to hack the syscons configuration utility to take an argument regarding keyclick and make the ioctl to turn it on or off... the utility is named "vidcontrol". Then you can test it outside of X and see if it works or not. If it does, then you can hack the ioctl call into the XSET X protocol server primitive in the X server code. It probably has some idea inside it to do it already, so you should look there first for standard ioctl name and parameters: it may be that if you define the right ioctl in the right header file (the one that tells it how to do console switching, etc.), then the X server will just call it for you magically. This would be the best approach, since avoiding changes to the xserver code is a very, very good thing to do. > > The XFree86 sources are a seperate package; use the package mechanism > > to install them from CDROM or the net. > > I've got the v2.05 CDROM. Slowly, very slowly, > getting X working with xdm and .xsession and so > forth. Do you know what I've got to hack in X > to make the speaker keyclick?? I've been looking > for the code to xset, but haven't found it. You need to modify the server sources, not the xset utility sources. > Is this C code I looking to modify, or one of > those Xconfig files? I'm continuing to poke > around, but thanks for your help! C code. You can see that the amount of hacking means that someone would have to want keyclick pretty bad to get it. 8-). ========================================================================= Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 11:41:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04599 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:41:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04583 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:41:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199512101941.LAA04583@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 08:49:41 CST." Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:41:48 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >I feel that the group is making a big mistake by using /usr/src as the >location of the -current tree available for sup'ping. Where the tree lands is customizable by the user. There is even an extensive header in all of our supfiles (as of last night) that explains how to customize them for your setup. I also feel that using /usr/src as the default location for all src tree sups is a choice of least surprise. Not all of the people who use SUP to get at our bits have enough space for multiple src trees. >This assumes that the system is interested in only the absolute latest >-current version of the source. I think that this is in error. /usr/src >should be reserved for the system's own sources. They might be 2.1-RELEASE, >for example. This is up to the user. We dictate absolutely no policy on where the user pulls their source. >Similarly, assuming that -stable is on /a/src is equally freefall-centric. The files don't assume that. I think you are commenting on Jordan's supfiles (which he has already recanted). >I advocate that we designate another tree location for the various source tree >s. >For example, ~FreeBSD/current, ~FreeBSD/stable, ~FreeBSD/cvs, etc. >The individual system is then free to make these entries links to whatever >location is appropriate for their configuration. There's no need to designate anything. It is up to the user. Please read the files in ~ftp/sup on Freefall before commenting on this subject further. >---- >Richard Wackerbarth >rkw@dataplex.net > > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 11:47:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA05242 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:47:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05222 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:47:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199512101947.LAA05222@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Andreas Klemm cc: jkh@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: why the hell did sup remove many of my ports directories ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:31:32 +0100." <199512101531.QAA10201@knobel.gun.de> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:47:04 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It was a problem with supscan that I just corrected. The patch will be going into the sup port shortly, but you should be able to SUP from freefall again. >Hi ! > >What's going on with sup ? When I tried to sup the ports >collection, I got the following result ... > >SUP 8.26 (4.3 BSD) for file ports-supfile at Dec 10 14:45:10 >SUP Upgrade of ports-misc at Sun Dec 10 14:45:13 1995 >SUP Fileserver 9.13 (4.3 BSD) 12371 on freefall.FreeBSD.org at 14:45:13 >SUP Fileserver supports compression. >SUP Requesting changes since Dec 5 14:22:16 1995 >SUP: Access denied to ports/misc >SUP: Access denied to ports/misc/Makefile,v > >And so on.... I think we got the idea after the first few lines. Please try to cut down on your messages where appropriate. We have many people paying high connection costs to read this list. > >-- >andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH > Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - > \/ -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 11:53:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA06089 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:53:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA06068 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:53:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199512101953.LAA06068@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth), hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:53:33 CST." <199512101753.LAA23540@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:53:06 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >We should maybe consider discussing the best way to do this, to help >minimize confusion ("What? Your sup collections are in /xyz?") and the >number of changes one needs to make to a supfile to make it do the right >thing. > >I, for one, would prefer to see my convention of "/sup/current" etc. mainly >because I would hesitate to make a user name for freebsd, and in caps yet. >:-) > >... Joe Read the new example supfiles. base and prefix are fully documented in the files. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- >Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net >Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 12:50:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA12736 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:50:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12718 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:50:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Sun, 10 Dec 1995 14:39:31 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 14:39:22 -0600 To: "Justin T. Gibbs" From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Justin T. Gibbs writes: >Please read the files in ~ftp/sup on Freefall before commenting on >this subject further. A) I have read them. B) One portion of the files describe the user's end, another describe the server. There will be multiple servers. Each of them should (I would say MUST) have the same structure. Joe User should be able to reference anyone of them by simply changing the server address. (Frankly, I would prefer that the server address be set in the first line and automatically remembered until it is changed. That would reduce the customization to a single point.) C) A user should be able to sup ANY distribution tree without editing the sup files. Multiple trees should not step on each other. The default case should not use /usr/src... that belongs to the user. If he wants to link to a distribution, he can add the single link. In fact, it could be argued that the install process should set that link to point to the sources actually used. Please consider the general case that supports multiple situations rather than the inverted ego-centric attitude that the user should move things around depending upon which version of a system he wants to use at that time. Consider .... I want to run 2.1-RELEASE, but sup both -stable and -current to decide what changes I wish to integrate into my system. Further, I will be a supserver for others for both -stable and -current. This should happen seamlessly using the defaults. I should not have to edit the supfiles. Joe and I think your present scheme should be improved. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 13:17:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15777 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15756 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:17:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199512102117.NAA15756@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 14:39:22 CST." Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:17:13 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Justin T. Gibbs writes: > >>Please read the files in ~ftp/sup on Freefall before commenting on >>this subject further. > >A) I have read them. > >B) One portion of the files describe the user's end, another describe the >server. > There will be multiple servers. Each of them should (I would say MUST) >have the same structure. Joe User should be able to reference anyone of >them by simply changing the server address. (Frankly, I would prefer that >the server address be set in the first line and automatically remembered >until it is changed. That would reduce the customization to a single >point.) The only thing that must be the same on all servers is the location of the collection information (/home). Where the actual files are stored on your server is up to you and is controlled by the prefix field in the release file for every collection. This is entirely transparant to the end user of SUP. >C) A user should be able to sup ANY distribution tree without editing the >sup files. Supping any of the distributions requires a lot of disk space. To expect any user to be able to sup any distribution without making some adjustments to their system is ludicrous. By default, if they sup a src distribtion, it will go in /usr/src where they will hopefully have enough space and will probably expect it to show up (its called /usr/src for a reason). > Multiple trees should not step on each other. The default case should >not use /usr/src... that belongs to the user. If he wants to link to a >distribution, he can add the single link. In fact, it could be argued that >the install process should set that link to point to the sources actually >used. You're tayloring your system to the wrong crowd. The people that know that they want multiple source trees will take steps to ensure that they don't clobber each other. For 99% of the people out there who use SUP to update their single copy of /usr/src, the defaults will do the right thing. >Please consider the general case that supports multiple situations rather >than the inverted ego-centric attitude that the user should move things >around depending upon which version of a system he wants to use at that >time. SUP is flexible enough to handle either case. I'm just trying to handle the default case the best way. There is nothing "ego-centric" about the approach at all. The hackers that want to do something special and can easily figure out how to do what they want will have to do more work, but the people who don't know how to make a symlink and don't know how to modify supfiles will get the behavior they expect. > >Consider .... > >I want to run 2.1-RELEASE, but sup both -stable and -current to decide what >changes I wish to integrate into my system. Further, I will be a supserver >for others for both -stable and -current. You have very specific wishes. Are they the same as every other client of our SUP system? >This should happen seamlessly using the defaults. I should not have to edit >the supfiles. Why? They are only "example" supfiles, designed to handle the generic case. >Joe and I think your present scheme should be improved. Both of you are people with very specific needs. >---- >Richard Wackerbarth >rkw@dataplex.net -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 13:30:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17258 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:30:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from abf.abaforum.es (abf.abaforum.es [193.127.90.99]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17253 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from node8.abaforum.es (node8.abaforum.es [193.127.90.8]) by abf.abaforum.es (8.6.9/6.2) with SMTP id WAA02723 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:18:32 +0100 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:18:32 +0100 Message-Id: <199512102118.WAA02723@abf.abaforum.es> X-Sender: jesusr@abf.abaforum.es (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Jesus Rodriguez Subject: SCSI cd-rom NEC problem Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have a problem with my cd-rom and this is that i can't open it when i've loaded freebsd. I've tried to umount it but freebsd says: Can't umount /cdrom: device busy If i want open cd-rom i have to reset the computer and open it before freebsd be loaded. Some help??? The cd-rom is a internal NEC 2X scsi cd-rom and controller is a Buslogic= PCI. Thanks in advance... La inform=E1tica es cosa de locos... Internet: jesusr@abaforum.es Packet Radio: eb3eyh@eb3eyh.eab.esp.eu ea3clb@eb3eyh.eab.esp.eu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 13:35:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17711 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:35:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from snake.hut.fi (root@snake.hut.fi [193.167.6.99]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA17692 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from lk-hp-5.hut.fi (lk-hp-5.hut.fi [130.233.244.36]) by snake.hut.fi (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id XAA06752; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 23:34:50 +0200 (EET) Received: (vode@localhost) by lk-hp-5.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.7) id XAA08928; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 23:34:47 +0200 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 23:34:47 +0200 Message-Id: <199512102134.XAA08928@lk-hp-5.hut.fi> From: Kai Vorma To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: rkw@dataplex.net's message of 10 Dec 1995 23:03:15 +0200 Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions Reply-to: Kai.Vorma@hut.fi Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Richard Wackerbarth writes: > There will be multiple servers. Each of them should (I would say MUST) > have the same structure. Joe User should be able to reference anyone of I'm mirroring sup trees on nic.funet.fi. It's a big ftp/www/etc. server with strict rules for administrators. I really cannot create new file trees outside the well defined places, so the above is impossible. The sup trees are /pub/mirrors/sup.freebsd.org/current stable ports cvs (ports and cvs aren't ready yet - I'm currently supping them from freefall, but it takes some time) If Joe User wants to use multiple sup servers he can use multiple supfiles (one for freefall, one for nic etc.). I know this isn't ideal but it is the reality.. Besides you don't want switch servers often, because sup will update (not receive fortunately) every file after switching servers. I think this happens because inode ctimes are different and you cannot sync them. One way to solve your problem is to create a front-end for sup which creates the actual supfile from a user friendly configuration file and then fires sup client. I can make a perl-script that does this if there is a need for it. ..vode From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 13:42:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA18588 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA18568 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:42:01 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:41:53 -0600 To: "Justin T. Gibbs" From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>Justin T. Gibbs writes: >>B) One portion of the files describe the user's end, another describe the >>server. >>There will be multiple servers. Each of them should (I would say MUST) >>have the same structure. Joe User should be able to reference anyone of >>them by simply changing the server address. (Frankly, I would prefer that >>the server address be set in the first line and automatically remembered >>until it is changed. That would reduce the customization to a single >>point.) > >The only thing that must be the same on all servers is the location of >the collection information (/home). Not the location that I would choose. Here, remember that we are talking about servers that are likely to have significant demands to do multiple things. >SUP is flexible enough to handle either case. Here, we agree. The argument is about the "correct" default configuration. > I'm just trying to handle the default case the best way. There is >nothing "ego-centric" about the approach at all. Yes, there is. It is very ego-centric to think that there is only one source. That kind of thinking is just what has created the mess that "make world" is in. The correct solution is to link your source tree to the library reference version of the distribution, if that is what you want. Sup is a mechanism to maintain the reference copy. It does not support local modifications well. To try to use it as if it does leads the unsophisticated to trouble. >>I want to run 2.1-RELEASE, but sup both -stable and -current to decide what >>changes I wish to integrate into my system. This is typical of the "joe user" who should not be editing supfiles. He should not trash his working source just because he decides to look at a current version of some source tree. > Further, I will be a supserver for others for both -stable and -current. However, I admit that this is not. However, maintainance of the supservers should also be made painless. True each admin has the knowledge to customize, but remember that he does not want to spend the time to do so. The "stock" solution needs to "just work". That way, when someone adds another line to the files, the admin can just use the revised file and be up-to-date. >Why? They are only "example" supfiles, designed to handle the generic case. Bad design. "Examples" should be replaced by "defaults" that work. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 14:20:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA22834 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 14:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22820 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 14:20:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199512102220.OAA22820@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:41:53 CST." Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 14:20:42 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>>Justin T. Gibbs writes: > >>>B) One portion of the files describe the user's end, another describe the >>>server. >>>There will be multiple servers. Each of them should (I would say MUST) >>>have the same structure. Joe User should be able to reference anyone of >>>them by simply changing the server address. (Frankly, I would prefer that >>>the server address be set in the first line and automatically remembered >>>until it is changed. That would reduce the customization to a single >>>point.) >> >>The only thing that must be the same on all servers is the location of >>the collection information (/home). > >Not the location that I would choose. Here, remember that we are talking >about servers that are likely to have significant demands to do multiple >things. Fine, decide where you want the collection information on the servers, and I'll change it. I don't care about where hostbase is set to, because it does not affect our endusers. >>SUP is flexible enough to handle either case. >Here, we agree. The argument is about the "correct" default configuration. Yup. >> I'm just trying to handle the default case the best way. There is >>nothing "ego-centric" about the approach at all. > >Yes, there is. It is very ego-centric to think that there is only one >source. That kind of thinking is just what has created the mess that "make >world" is in. By the definition of ego-centric, this policy cannot be ego-centric. The files are not designed for core, me, or you. They are designed to be useful to the largest portion of our SUP user base. >The correct solution is to link your source tree to the library reference >version of the distribution, if that is what you want. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ There are lots of correct solutions depending on what you want. >Sup is a mechanism >to maintain the reference copy. It does not support local modifications >well. To try to use it as if it does leads the unsophisticated to trouble. No one was trying to push SUP for this purpose. For people who want to maintain their own local changes, they should be SUPing the CVS tree! >>>I want to run 2.1-RELEASE, but sup both -stable and -current to decide what >>>changes I wish to integrate into my system. > >This is typical of the "joe user" who should not be editing supfiles. >He should not trash his working source just because he decides to look at a >current version of some source tree. How many of these "joe users" currently use our SUP system? I would say that they are the exception and not the rule. Your definition of a "Joe User" knows enough about the system to extract patches from our source distributions and pull them into their local tree. They should also be intelligent enough to know that running a SUP into /usr/src will clobber /usr/src just like an ftp-mirror into /usr/src would. I still maintain that 99% of our users (those not using CVS) use SUP to update their /usr/src. The changes you request affect this large user base who may not know how to adjust to the change. >> Further, I will be a supserver for others for both -stable and -current. > >However, I admit that this is not. However, maintainance of the supservers >should also be made painless. True each admin has the knowledge to >customize, but remember that he does not want to spend the time to do so. >The "stock" solution needs to "just work". That way, when someone adds >another line to the files, the admin can just use the revised file and be >up-to-date. This is the job of Jordan's supserver package. It should contain modified supfiles that sync with the collections he's distributing. I see this as a totally separate issue. If Jordan wanted to be really slick, there would be a SUP collection for the collections and supfile for suping the collections. :) Then it would be a "setup and forget" solution. >>Why? They are only "example" supfiles, designed to handle the generic case. > >Bad design. "Examples" should be replaced by "defaults" that work. We can't create default files that will satisfy everyone's needs. > >---- >Richard Wackerbarth >rkw@dataplex.net > > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 15:03:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA29363 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:03:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA29329 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:02:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.12]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA21321; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 23:50:13 +0100 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by localhost (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA01715; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:29:49 +0100 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:29:49 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199512101729.SAA01715@localhost> To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: mail storm In-Reply-To: <199512091051.LAA12814@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> References: <199512091051.LAA12814@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Christoph P. Kukulies writes: >Overnight I had received 650 mails or so (instead of 120 - my >normal daily load) and many of these are deja-vu mails. Me too. I detect funny ``Received: '' lines, 550 mails via ra.dkuug.dk and 100 mails via th-darmstadt.de. Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 15:05:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA29659 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA29616 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:04:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.12]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA21315; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 23:50:10 +0100 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by localhost (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA01747; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:48:28 +0100 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:48:28 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199512101748.SAA01747@localhost> To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Does anybody knows a way to get file via HTTP non-interactively? In-Reply-To: References: Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk KOI8-R writes: >It is actual, because more and more sites places archives available by >HTTP only. >All browsers I know can't work in background... :-( Get a file: $ echo "GET /" | socket > out Reading a directory: $ echo GET /dir/ | socket host port | \ perl -ne 'print "$1\n" if /\sNAME="([^"]+)"/' Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 15:07:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA00276 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA29710 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.12]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA21318; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 23:50:11 +0100 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by localhost (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA01737; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:40:19 +0100 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:40:19 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199512101740.SAA01737@localhost> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: A call for DNS secondaries to server for .freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512091254.NAA26560@uriah.heep.sax.de> References: <199512081551.PAA13026@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> <199512091254.NAA26560@uriah.heep.sax.de> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J. Wunsch writes: >freebsd.org. > >> Do other countries have similar namespace conventions? > >The `de' domain does not have official second-level ``grouping'' >subdomains. That doesn't mean we couldn't get freebsd.org.de >registered, but as Jordan was mentioning: it will cost real money. I remember that top-level domains (two char ISO or com, org, net etc.) are explict not allowed as second-level DE domain. No change for any *.org.DE. PS: ``real money'' mean in Germany 500 US$/year. See http://www.nic.de Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 15:54:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA03600 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.205]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03590 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA10960; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:51:56 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:51:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" X-Sender: jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM To: Wolfram Schneider cc: "Christoph P. Kukulies" , freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: mail storm In-Reply-To: <199512101729.SAA01715@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 10 Dec 1995, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > Christoph P. Kukulies writes: > >Overnight I had received 650 mails or so (instead of 120 - my > >normal daily load) and many of these are deja-vu mails. > > Me too. I detect funny ``Received: '' lines, 550 mails via ra.dkuug.dk > and 100 mails via th-darmstadt.de. send me one, including headers please, if you have any that you have not deleted Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 16:27:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA06449 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:27:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from werple.net.au (werple.mira.net.au [203.9.190.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA06431 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from cimaxp1.UUCP (Ucimlogi@localhost) by werple.net.au (8.7/8.7.1) with UUCP id LAA03040 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:04:17 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199512110004.LAA03040@werple.net.au> X-Authentication-Warning: werple.net.au: Ucimlogi set sender to cimaxp1!jb using -f Received: by cimaxp1.cimlogic.com.au; (5.65/1.1.8.2/10Sep95-0953AM) id AA03609; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:04:33 +1100 From: John Birrell Subject: Handling hardware interrupts in lkm device drivers. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:04:32 +1100 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk G'day, I've got an ISA bus card that is capable of giving me an interrupt (if I want it to - which I do) when is has processed a command. I want to load the driver as a lkm because the information that allows me to write the driver is the subject of a licensing agreement so I can't give out source. I've written a simple lkm which I can modload, open(), close(), ioctl(), and communicate with the card (without enabling hardware interrupts). Now I'm up to the point where I want to register an interrupt handler that will wakeup() my ioctl() that is tsleep()'ing. When I look at (the zillions of) drivers in FreeBSD, they all look like they're config'ed in so that they appear in the isa device array. I was thinking about trying to register_intr() my interrupt function, but I see that register_intr() wants to know a device_id and I don't have one to give it. Am I barking up the wrong tree? Hope someone can help. Regards, -- John Birrell CIMlogic Pty Ltd jb@cimlogic.com.au 119 Cecil Street Ph +61 3 9690 9600 South Melbourne Vic 3205 Fax +61 3 9690 6650 Australia Mob +61 18 353 137 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 17:14:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA09129 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:14:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA09124 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:14:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA10850; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:12:48 -0800 To: Andreas Klemm cc: jkh@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: why the hell did sup remove many of my ports directories ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:31:32 +0100." <199512101531.QAA10201@knobel.gun.de> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:12:48 -0800 Message-ID: <10848.818644368@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi ! > > What's going on with sup ? When I tried to sup the ports > collection, I got the following result ... Maybe because you have an old sup file? You don't read announce? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 17:39:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA10504 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA10498 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:39:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA10988; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:38:23 -0800 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:35:40 EST." <199512101735.MAA28497@etinc.com> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:38:23 -0800 Message-ID: <10986.818645903@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I think that a product is either commercial or its not commercial, and >unless you can guarantee that some set of features works and will >continue to work, you will have difficulty having much impact. The >bridge from non-commercial to commerc l involves a lot more than just >getting a bunch of people together with a dial-up or ISDN connection. Absolutely. In fact, the times that David and I have talked about this (like I said, it's not a new idea) we've sort of come to the mutual conclusion that a *lot* of tightening up would have to occur before we'd be at all comfortable with the idea of sticking our legal necks out on trying to support it commercially. BSDI may appear to move with excessive caution when it comes to adding new features, and they take a good deal of heat for that sometimes, but I'm well aware as to why they do so - they simply can't afford to take the chances we do with all those support contracts to fulfil. There's also the question of divided effort, yes. What happens when all the top-notch developers are lured away with the promise of salaries and banished to work on a somewhat lower-tech version of FreeBSD? The image of a kid stuck inside to do his school work, pressing his nose sadly against the window as he watches the other kids play outside in the snow somehow comes to mind.. :-) Basically it's one of those double-edged swords, like merging with NetBSD. A lot of really enticing benefits on the surface but a host of sticky problems to solve underneath. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 17:44:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA10898 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:44:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA10891 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:44:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA11008; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:41:38 -0800 To: Joe Greco cc: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth), hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:53:33 CST." <199512101753.LAA23540@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:41:38 -0800 Message-ID: <11006.818646098@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I did precisely this, I used "/sup/current" "/sup/stable", etc. as the base > for my sup operation here, and these are actually symlinks into my /ftp > tree, so everything magically works. This sounds reasonable to me - I definitely agree that we need to standardise this and not simply continue to saddle ourselves with freefall's historical baggage. I had the situation come up today where Richard wanted a sup connection and I figured I'd direct him at our first mirror, sup2.freebsd.org. Unfortunately, I had absolutely no idea what to tell him concerning which prefix values to use and had to refer him on to the site's maintainer (Paul Traina). We need to standardise this now or our 6 planned mirrors will all be wildly divergent. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 18:05:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA12438 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:05:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA12428 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:05:54 -0800 (PST) From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199512110205.SAA12428@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:05:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <10986.818645903@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 10, 95 05:38:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > There's also the question of divided effort, yes. What happens when > all the top-notch developers are lured away with the promise of > salaries and banished to work on a somewhat lower-tech version of > FreeBSD? The image of a kid stuck inside to do his school work, > pressing his nose sadly against the window as he watches the other > kids play outside in the snow somehow comes to mind.. :-) > I would hate to convert my hobby into something like work :-(. When I took the SVR4 support/development I thought that I would be like a kid in a candy store. It ended up that the kid ate too much candy... John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 18:10:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA12724 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:10:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA12716 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:10:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA11123; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:07:39 -0800 To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: Joe Greco , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:17:45 CST." Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:07:38 -0800 Message-ID: <11120.818647658@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I still feel that .../stable should simply be a link to the "real" .../2.1 tr ee. > That way, I don't have to move the trees around when someone suddenly > decides that it is time to change the "-stable" branch and I want to keep > the 2.1 tree. But 2.1 and -stable simply aren't the same things. If you want to keep the 2.1 tree then keep the 2.1 tree, by all means, just don't call it -stable because that's not what it is! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 18:19:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA13161 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:19:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA13154 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:19:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA11206; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:18:21 -0800 To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth), hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:17:13 PST." <199512102117.NAA15756@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:18:21 -0800 Message-ID: <11204.818648301@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The only thing that must be the same on all servers is the location of > the collection information (/home). Where the actual files are stored > on your server is up to you and is controlled by the prefix field in > the release file for every collection. This is entirely transparant to the > end user of SUP. I guess I was confused again then since I documented which base dirs the various types of collections live in (see the sup-server-kit.tar.gz's README file). Maybe I really should have you update the kit after all since I just appear to be sticking my foot further and further in every time I try to pull it out :-). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 18:35:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA13903 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:35:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA13895 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:35:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA00735; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:33:40 -0800 Message-Id: <199512110233.SAA00735@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: John Dyson cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), dennis@etinc.com, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:05:53 PST." <199512110205.SAA12428@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:33:23 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> John Dyson said: > I would hate to convert my hobby into something like work :-(. When > I took the SVR4 support/development I thought that I would be like a > kid in a candy store. It ended up that the kid ate too much candy... > Hmmm... Where is the candy ? BTW: We do need professional support for some of the things that people don't feel like doing. At any rate, Julian I think is a good idea. We can consider the FreeBSD distribution as an OEM kit which may need tuning or support for large organizations. In fact, this may be one of the ways to spread out FreeBSD by eliminating the fear of support. Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 18:35:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA13925 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA13919 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:35:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA11319; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:34:40 -0800 To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:41:53 CST." Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:34:39 -0800 Message-ID: <11317.818649279@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Yes, there is. It is very ego-centric to think that there is only one > source. That kind of thinking is just what has created the mess that "make > world" is in. Speaking of which, I'm *still* waiting to see your solution to this. Do you only intend to complain about it or do you have any plans for showing us a proof-of-concept at some point? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 18:40:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA14193 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:40:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14187 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA11365; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:39:02 -0800 To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth), hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: Sup's Freefall-centric tree conventions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 14:20:42 PST." <199512102220.OAA22820@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:39:02 -0800 Message-ID: <11363.818649542@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > This is the job of Jordan's supserver package. It should contain modified > supfiles that sync with the collections he's distributing. I see this as > a totally separate issue. If Jordan wanted to be really slick, there would > be a SUP collection for the collections and supfile for suping the > collections. :) Then it would be a "setup and forget" solution. If I wanted to, yes, I'd probably do something like that.. :-) I think there are probably other things I'm going to spend my time on instead, however.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 19:16:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA17009 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:16:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA16983 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:16:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA11646; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:14:56 -0800 To: John Dyson cc: dennis@etinc.com, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:05:53 PST." <199512110205.SAA12428@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:14:55 -0800 Message-ID: <11644.818651695@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I would hate to convert my hobby into something like work :-(. When > I took the SVR4 support/development I thought that I would be like a > kid in a candy store. It ended up that the kid ate too much candy... Maybe somebody just needs to stick two fingers down his throat? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 19:57:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA19751 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:57:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from io.org (io.org [142.77.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA19732 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mnewton.io.org (mnewton.net5a.io.org [199.166.190.83]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA28143 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:56:33 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:56:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199512110356.WAA28143@io.org> X-Sender: mnewton@io.org (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: mnewton@io.org (mn) Subject: cgi forms processing X-Mailer: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk where's the best place to get info on writing scripts for http forms processing Malcolm Newton mnewton@io.org http://www.io.org/~mnewton VisiSoft Corp.,2145 Dunwin Dr #11, Mississauga,Ont,Can L5L 4L9 (905) 607-6263 Fax ..6122 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 20:15:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA21690 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nightflight.com (nightflight.com [205.162.141.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21668 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:15:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from laptop.nightflight (laptop [205.162.141.3]) by nightflight.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA00217; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:17:58 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:17:58 -0800 Message-Id: <199512110417.UAA00217@nightflight.com> X-Sender: gcrutchr@nightflight.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: questions@freebsd.org From: Gary Crutcher Subject: Routing help Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have switched over from PPP to a 56 KB frame relay. My host machine is 205.162.141.1. My router is 205.162.141.14. I have an ethernet card in the FreeBSD box. I have a laptop connected via RG54 at 205.162.141.3. I am getting the following message when booting up(Note the arpresolve): de0 rev 17 int a irq 15 on pci0:20 reg16: ioaddr=0xfc80 size=0x80 de0: DC21041 [10Mb/s] pass 1.1 Ethernet address 00:00:c0:b0:89:be pci0: uses 8388736 bytes of memory from ff000000 upto ffbdffff. pci0: uses 128 bytes of I/O space from fc80 upto fcff. changing root device to sd0a de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo Here is my sysconfig file: =================sysconfig======== network_interfaces="de0 lo0" ifconfig_de0="inet nightflight 204.212.233.253 netmask 0xfffffff0" ifconfig_lo0="inet localhost 205.162.141.14 netmask 0xfffffff0" static_routes="multicast loopback router" route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface ${hostname}" route_loopback="${hostname} localhost" route_router="205.162.141.1 -netmask 0xfffffff0 -interface 205.162.141.14" defaultrouter=205.162.141.14 routedflags=-s Here is my gateways file: =================gateways========== host 204.212.233.253 gateway 204.212.233.128 metric 1 active host 204.212.233.128 gateway 205.162.141.14 metric 1 active host 205.162.141.1 gateway 205.162.141.14 metric 1 active Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Gary Crutcher From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 21:51:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00336 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA00326 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:51:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA13146; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 00:50:38 -0500 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199512110550.AAA13146@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: Thinkpad and FreeBSD To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 00:50:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <199512071737.KAA08308@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 7, 95 10:37:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I just got my TP365 with the CD in it yesterday. The CD's a Teac > > (IDE based, I think). The video in the 365's using a Chips & Technologies > > set... I'll let you know what I find out on this new baby. > Red Hat Linux 2.0 can't handle the internal Teac IDE CDROM. I hope I'll have better luck with my FreeBSD 2.1 CD when it arrives. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | The postmaster always pings twice. Lakewood MicroSystems | 17 Meredith Drive, 908-389-3592 | Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 pechter@shell.monmouth.com | From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 22:06:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA02247 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:06:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from annax.tky.hut.fi (annax.tky.hut.fi [130.233.32.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA02225 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pooh.tky.hut.fi (root@pooh.tky.hut.fi [130.233.33.233]) by annax.tky.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA27530; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:06:09 +0200 Received: by pooh.tky.hut.fi (IAA10410); Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:06:42 +0200 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:06:42 +0200 Message-Id: <199512110606.IAA10410@pooh.tky.hut.fi> From: Timo J Rinne To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uucp installation In-Reply-To: <199512102250.XAA09575@uriah.heep.sax.de> References: <199512102040.WAA11450@pooh.tky.hut.fi> <199512102250.XAA09575@uriah.heep.sax.de> Reply-to: tri@iki.fi Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Espoo, Finland Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J. Wunsch writes: > So there's still the question about _which_ mailer on the way is the > culprit. There aren't so many, and freefall used to be 8-bit clean. Whoops. Not only does it do quoted unreadable. Just sent mail from my office machine through freefall to my university account. My test mail had very mych `scandinavian' letters in it. And look what happened. Some machine base64 encoded it. I've seen it before. That is peculiarity in standard configuration of the new sendmail. I think that vode@hut.fi fixed that one at Helsinki University of Technology. Wonder why my mail from freefall to Finland goes through ra.dkuug.dk. That might be the beast. //tri From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 22:14:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA02871 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:14:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA02863 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:14:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0tP1VU-000AmcC; Sun, 10 Dec 95 22:14 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: non-interactive http To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:14:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199512110144.RAA10908@freefall.freebsd.org> from "owner-hackers-digest@freefall.freebsd.org" at Dec 10, 95 05:44:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Subject: Does anybody knows a way to get file via HTTP non-interactively? lynx -source url > file The "echo | socket" method will give you a file with mime headers and things that you'll have to clean up; this gives you a clean file. "www" (the CERN line mode browser) will do it with less overhead, but you're more likely to have lynx around already. -- Alan Batie ______ batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Freedom for me to be and do +1 503 452-0960 \ / only what *you* approve of 45 28 59 N / 122 43 20 W / 440' MSL \/ is no freedom at all. It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Dec 10 22:19:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA03137 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:19:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user59.lightside.com [198.81.209.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA03114 Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:19:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA01146; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:32:51 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 03:32:19 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Adaptec 2842 VLB SCSI & XFree86? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Thanks to the advice of many people on the FreeBSD mailing list over the last few months as to IDE vs. SCSI, I finally took the plunge and bought a new SCSI controller. Of course my hard drives and CD-ROM are still IDE, but now that I've made the commitment, I can sell them and buy new SCSI stuff at my leisure. In the meantime, I'm testing this card (an Adaptec 2842A VESA local bus) with an external Iomega Zip drive.. I finally managed to get all three of my VLB cards properly seated (no small feat considering their length and the fact that my motherboard is somewhat loosely mounted in its tower case), and Windows 95 seems to recognize the controller properly. So did FreeBSD, with the GENERIC kernel (I'm building a custom kernel right now). The problem, however, is that with the SCSI controller installed, XFree86 consistently and repeatedly FREEZES SOLID which means that I can't properly shut down the system (since I can't switch back to a console) so I just have to hit the reset switch... Sheesh... The other cards installed are a "JAX 8241" generic S3 801 VLB SVGA card and a VLB dual IDE/serial/parallel/game card. The motherboard has an AMD DX4/100 and is set to 33MHz, no wait states. The Adaptec card has a panel with 8 DIP switches, which can set the card to 1C00h, 2C00h, 3C00h, etc, as well as enable/disable the onboard BIOS (right now its disabled since I have no bootable drives), and enable/disable the onboard floppy controller (disabled since there's one on the IDE card). Perhaps this custom kernel will fix matters. Otherwise, can anyone give me any hints for this particular card as to why it's causing these X Window problems? Thanks in advance! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 00:49:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA12755 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 00:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from annax.tky.hut.fi (annax.tky.hut.fi [130.233.32.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA12744 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 00:49:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from pooh.tky.hut.fi (root@pooh.tky.hut.fi [130.233.33.233]) by annax.tky.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA28486 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:49:01 +0200 Received: by pooh.tky.hut.fi (KAA10761); Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:49:32 +0200 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:49:32 +0200 Message-Id: <199512110849.KAA10761@pooh.tky.hut.fi> From: Timo J Rinne To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uucp installation In-Reply-To: <199512110823.JAA11770@uriah.heep.sax.de> References: <199512110606.IAA10410@pooh.tky.hut.fi> <199512110823.JAA11770@uriah.heep.sax.de> Reply-to: tri@iki.fi Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Espoo, Finland Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J. Wunsch writes: > Poul-Henning? Does ra.dkuug.dk not speak ESMTP??? Two little tests. I think that current sendmails want to see 8BITMIME in the EHLO response. Not sure though. //tri >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C U T H E R E >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 159.pooh:ports> telnet ra.dkuug.dk smtp Trying 193.88.44.193... Connected to ra.dkuug.dk. Escape character is '^]'. 220-ra.dkuug.dk Sendmail 8.6.12/8.6.12 ready at Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:39:38 +0100 220 ESMTP spoken here EHLO freebsd.org 250-ra.dkuug.dk Hello tri@pooh.tky.hut.fi [130.233.33.233], pleased to meet you 250-EXPN 250-SIZE 250 HELP QUIT 221 ra.dkuug.dk closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C U T H E R E >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 160.pooh:~> telnet hut.fi smtp Trying 130.233.224.1... Connected to hut.fi. Escape character is '^]'. 220 santra.hut.fi ESMTP Sendmail 8.7.2/8.7.2; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:45:46 +0200 (EET) EHLO freebsd.org 250-santra.hut.fi Hello tri@pooh.tky.hut.fi [130.233.33.233], pleased to meet you 250-EXPN 250-8BITMIME 250-SIZE 250-DSN 250-VERB 250-ONEX 250 HELP QUIT 221 santra.hut.fi closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C U T H E R E >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 00:57:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA13053 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 00:57:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA12849 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 00:51:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA02054; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:51:03 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA19889; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:50:47 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA11894; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:47:21 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512110847.JAA11894@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: SCSI cd-rom NEC problem To: jesusr@abaforum.es (Jesus Rodriguez) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:47:20 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512102118.WAA02723@abf.abaforum.es> from "Jesus Rodriguez" at Dec 10, 95 10:18:32 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jesus Rodriguez wrote: > > I have a problem with my cd-rom and this is that i can't open it when i've > loaded freebsd. I've tried to umount it but freebsd says: > Can't umount /cdrom: device busy You can try running fstat -f /cdrom, and see who's holding a file on the CD. There's also a chance for the ``live filesystem'' CD of FreeBSD that the kernel got confused by device nodes that are on the CD and are currently open (like /dev/console, which is always open). If all else fails, unmount it forcibly (umount -f). That's one of the features i love in 4.4BSD. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 01:01:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA13272 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 01:01:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA12924 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 00:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA02049; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:50:46 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA19888; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:50:46 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA11868; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:44:17 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512110844.JAA11868@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Adaptec 2842 VLB SCSI & XFree86? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:44:16 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Dec 10, 95 03:32:19 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Jake Hamby wrote: > > I finally managed to get all three of my VLB cards properly seated [...] > [...] The problem, however, > is that with the SCSI controller installed, XFree86 consistently and > repeatedly FREEZES SOLID which means that I can't properly shut down the > system (since I can't switch back to a console) so I just have to hit the > reset switch... Sheesh... Replace the third card (that all-singing, all-dancing multi-IO controller) by a stock ISA one. The VLB does only allow for two cards; the capacitive load with three cards is too high. :-( (For 40 MHz, only one card is allowed. For 50 MHz, only zero cards are allowed.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 01:51:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA17267 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 01:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [199.166.238.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA17234 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 01:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA16562; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:50:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:50:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SNMP for FreeBSD? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi... A few questions... 1 - is there anything special I have to do to FreeBSD for snmp? 2 - is there an snmp package that works under FreeBSD? 3 - are there any good books on snmp? thanks for your time... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, soon to be: | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 01:55:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA17722 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 01:55:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA17717 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 01:55:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA02915; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:53:39 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: dennis@etinc.com (dennis), julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:38:23 PST." <10986.818645903@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:53:38 +0100 Message-ID: <2913.818675618@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Basically it's one of those double-edged swords, like merging with > NetBSD. A lot of really enticing benefits on the surface but a host > of sticky problems to solve underneath. I think Cygnus is an interesting parallel here. I think that if Julian wants to do it, he should be most welcome indeed. It must not be seen as a mandatory position for everybody though, I fully understand John (and I take the same position I think), but that doesn't mean that somebody else should do it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 02:27:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA20545 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 02:27:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA20532 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 02:27:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA03842; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:23:57 +1100 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:23:57 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512111023.VAA03842@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: cimaxp1!jb@werple.net.au, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Handling hardware interrupts in lkm device drivers. Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I was thinking about trying to register_intr() my interrupt function, but I >see that register_intr() wants to know a device_id and I don't have one >to give it. Am I barking up the wrong tree? The device id is only used to decide where to count interrupts. Other id'less (pci) drivers pretend that they have an id of 0 so that their interrupts are (msi)counted as clock interrupts. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 02:35:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA21182 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 02:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA21170 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 02:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA14079; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 02:33:42 -0800 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: dennis@etinc.com (dennis), julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:53:38 +0100." <2913.818675618@critter.tfs.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 02:33:42 -0800 Message-ID: <14077.818678022@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I think Cygnus is an interesting parallel here. > > I think that if Julian wants to do it, he should be most welcome indeed. You miss my entire point. The question is not so much whether or not it should be done, the question is whether it will be done in such a way so as to actually succeed. If you think it's an easy problem then I urge you think about it another 10 or 20 times. An organization that collapses, leaving its customers stranded, would be far worse than no organization at all. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 03:17:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA23285 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 03:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA23279 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 03:17:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA04524; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:16:37 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 02:33:42 PST." <14077.818678022@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:16:37 +0100 Message-ID: <4522.818680597@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I think Cygnus is an interesting parallel here. > > > > I think that if Julian wants to do it, he should be most welcome indeed. > > You miss my entire point. The question is not so much whether or not > it should be done, the question is whether it will be done in such a > way so as to actually succeed. If you think it's an easy problem then > I urge you think about it another 10 or 20 times. > > An organization that collapses, leaving its customers stranded, would > be far worse than no organization at all. I'm pretty confident that Julian knows what he's doing. I don't think he expects it to be particular easy, and I anticipate that he will not promise more than he can bite off, if I know him right. If anybody were to head this, Julian would be my first choice. Jordan, we also have to be careful not to try to "censor" ventures based on FreeBSD. (Now, there! Take that! The "C" word, used to be good for a 3 week flamefest on Usenet :-) The next thing would be to be worried that Rod sells some junky HW, and that it would damage our reputation. That would indeed be going down the very same slippery slope that made Jolitz disappear from polite company. If Julian sets up "WorldWide Virtual FreeBSD Support", I have no problems with that. If people engage in bussiness with him, they have the duty to examine what they put their money into. That is not our problem. If Julian cannot carry the load: too bad. We may, and probably will, help him, merely because he's a nice buddy who made us a nice SCSI system, but we are in no way responsible for keeping him floating with his venture. I think that the core team should encourage Julian, and help him as we see fit each of us, and hope that he will succeed. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 03:41:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA25126 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 03:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA25108 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 03:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA14384; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 03:40:29 -0800 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:16:37 +0100." <4522.818680597@critter.tfs.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 03:40:29 -0800 Message-ID: <14382.818682029@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan, we also have to be careful not to try to "censor" ventures > based on FreeBSD. (Now, there! Take that! The "C" word, used to > be good for a 3 week flamefest on Usenet :-) I'm not censoring, I'm simply expressing my reservations (which should also be allowed under the same rules of non-censorship, I think :). Julian is and always will be free to pursue whatever ventures he sees fit to pursue, just as anyone here can, but that doesn't mean I have to like each and every one of them. It's a (sort of) free country. > That would indeed be going down the very same slippery slope that made > Jolitz disappear from polite company. Jolitz disappeared himself, despite everyone's best attempts to work with him. This reference doesn't make a lot of sense, actually. > If people engage in bussiness with him, they have the duty to examine > what they put their money into. That is not our problem. > > If Julian cannot carry the load: too bad. I see. I don't think that we can or should continue this conversation here as it doesn't appear to be going down a very constructive road. I have expressed my reservations, nothing you've said has given me any grounds to reconsider them, I guess we're at an impasse. I'll take this up with Julian personally once he returns from Australia since I don't think that email remains the best communications medium for this type of topic. It's more than possible that Julian's first message did not completely describe or express his overall strategy and we're simply arguing over the shape and size of an uninflated paper bag. I would therefore like to table this discussion until the original proponent (Julian) has had a chance to come back and discuss this in person with at least David and I in a less rigidly constrained setting than -hackers. Perhaps the upcoming USENIX conference would be a good opportunity for all of us to do exactly that. As far as I know, Julian, David and I will all be there. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 04:05:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA27038 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA27032 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:05:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA03986 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:05:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199512111205.EAA03986@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:05:35 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > I have expressed my reservations, nothing you've said has given me any > grounds to reconsider them, I guess we're at an impasse. I'll take > this up with Julian personally once he returns from Australia since I > don't think that email remains the best communications medium for this > type of topic. It's more than possible that Julian's first message You are right about e-mail not being the best medium for such a thing and in fact is the reason why I recommend that you get a Matrox Meteor, vat-4.0a2, the latest sound driver and have a serious face to face with Julian . BTW: others can join in the vic/vat conference 8) . Who, knows maybe this will convince Julian to get a multimedia setup and Jordan to get a Matrox Meteor PCI Video capture board. (Jordan already has a GUS MAX). Oh, about the symbol "8)" , real hackers smile they don't use "8)". Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 04:07:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA27108 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:07:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA27100 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tP6vj-000I5YC; Mon, 11 Dec 95 13:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0tOPvt-00001nC; Sat, 9 Dec 95 15:07 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Who's working on ISDN? To: grog@lemis.de Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:07:21 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199512091014.LAA00354@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Dec 9, 95 11:14:02 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Greg Lehey: > Various people in the Linux group over here (who have a marginally > working Teles driver) have approached Teles and tried to get > information about the cards, so far without success. I'll give these > guys a call on Monday and discuss the matter with them. I've heard > from other sources that they're interested in a UNIX driver, but so > far they haven't been able to show anything. Possibly we could come > to an agreement with them. I'll report more when I've spoken to them. There is no need to talk to Teles, they refuse to give out docs to anyone so far. In the meantime, since the U-ISDN and isdn4linux Linux drivers, the structure of the boards is pretty obvious and (through written code in the drivers mentioned above and below) documented so the missing hard- ware docs is not the problem in writing a driver for these cards anymore. The 0.2 ii driver from Dietmar Friede and Juergen Krause which Jordan sent out some weeks ago has support for the Teles/Creatix boards and is (after some serious debugging) halfway (better quarterway) working. Anyone able to read Q.92x/Q.93x and Siemens ISDN chip docs and seriously interested in getting this stuff working and with quite a bit of spare time should get in contact with one of: me@freebsd.org / me@muc.ditec.de or Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de / gjennejohn@frt.dec.com or hm@altona.hamburg.com Quoting from another mail from Gary with the same subject: Michael set up an isdn mailing list. Ask him about getting put onto the list (me@muc.ditec.de), if you're interested. The traffic's all in German. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 04:07:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA27128 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:07:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA27115 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:07:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tP6vm-000I5nC; Mon, 11 Dec 95 13:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0tOhVO-00001nC; Sun, 10 Dec 95 09:53 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Who's working on ISDN? To: grog@lemis.de Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:53:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512091821.TAA02565@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Dec 9, 95 07:21:00 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Greg Lehey: > It would be really nice if there were to be the sort of > compatibility which would enable me to call any ISDN number in the US > and exchange data via DSS1. There is no problem in doing this, i can pick up my ISDN phone and talk to someone in the US on a ISDN phone and exchange (digitalized voice) data with him - where is the problem ? hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 04:32:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA28190 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:32:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA28088 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:30:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.12]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA08909; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:22:39 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA08607; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:22:32 +0100 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:22:32 +0100 Message-Id: <199512111122.MAA08607@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: "Christoph P. Kukulies" , freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, joerg@sax.de Subject: Re: mail storm In-Reply-To: References: <199512101729.SAA01715@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jonathan M. Bresler writes: >On Sun, 10 Dec 1995, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > >> Christoph P. Kukulies writes: >> >Overnight I had received 650 mails or so (instead of 120 - my >> >normal daily load) and many of these are deja-vu mails. >> >> Me too. I detect funny ``Received: '' lines, 550 mails via ra.dkuug.dk >> and 100 mails via th-darmstadt.de. > > send me one, including headers please, if you have any that you >have not deleted I received 2760 Mails since november 29. 83 Mails are dups, mostly cross postings (cc: hackers, current). 10 Mails seems really dups, but 10 Mails is not a problem for me ... Wolfram count: 2 id: <199511291823.TAA16400@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: Sergio Lenzi Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ports@freegsd.org Subject: Re: INGRES 8.9 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 19:23:14 +0100 count: 2 id: <199512061723.SAA23439@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 18:23:49 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: vnode_pager_output: attempt to write meta-data count: 2 id: <199512071238.AA02883@Sysiphos> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:38:40 +0100 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Getting linux netscape binary to work? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org count: 2 id: <199512040807.JAA07653@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: *** HELP! ifconfig aliases!? *** To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:07:12 +0100 (MET) count: 2 id: <199512060418.NAA05482@steyr.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 13:18:16 +0900 To: hm@altona.hamburg.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: APM resume not rx'd with 3Com589C in PCMCIA slot count: 2 id: <199512091731.JAA03420@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 09:31:18 -0800 (PST) To: CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-share@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: cvs commit: src/share/man/man4/man4.i386 joy.4 count: 2 id: To: Mark Murray Cc: bugs@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 21:03:53 +0300 (MSK) Subject: Re: PGP has expired! count: 2 id: <199512101408.GAA08938@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: DEVFS ... To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:08:38 -0800 (PST) Cc: current@freefall.FreeBSD.org, julian@freefall.FreeBSD.org, phk@freefall.FreeBSD.org count: 2 id: <199512101431.PAA06047@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/net if_tun.c To: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:31:45 +0100 (MET) Cc: bde@freefall.freebsd.org, CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-sys@freefall.freebsd.org count: 2 id: <199512101832.TAA08377@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: getpass() and SIGINT To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:32:38 +0100 (MET) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 04:51:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA29536 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:51:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA29531 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:51:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA14678; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:50:24 -0800 To: phk@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sysinstall considered harmful! Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:50:24 -0800 Message-ID: <14676.818686224@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well, it's official - sysinstall does indeed have a pathological bug that will *destroy* the label on your drive zero if you use it later to partition some other drive, EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE NOT SELECTED DRIVE ZERO! I just helped David put his system back together after he used sysinstall to partition a new disk, and he confirms that he most definitely did not select drive zero before sysinstall stomped on it. Following the other 2 or 3 "suspicious" reports I've received on this topic, this pretty much confirms the malfunction to me. The code fragment from /usr/src/release/sysinstall/disks.c that writes disk labels out looks like this: for (i = 0; devs[i]; i++) { Chunk *c1; Disk *d = (Disk *)devs[i]->private; if (!devs[i]->enabled) continue; Set_Boot_Blocks(d, boot1, boot2); msgNotify("Writing partition information to drive %s", d->name); if (Write_Disk(d)) { dialog_clear(); msgConfirm("ERROR: Unable to write data to disk %s!", d->name); return RET_FAIL; } If devs[i]->enabled is not set, which I've proven to be the case for all disks that weren't selected, it will skip the disk, leading me to believe that the bug must lie somewhere in libdisk's Write_Disk() routine. Either that or there's a compiler bug which is causing the initialization of `d' to fail - quite unlikely, I'd say. Since you're the only human alive (or dead) who understands libdisk, could you possibly take a look at it? I'd like to have a new version of sysinstall available that 2.1 users can whap over their existing one if at all possible given that this is a _really bad_ bug! Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 05:15:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA02496 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 05:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA02485 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 05:15:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA04750; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:14:11 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall considered harmful! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:50:24 PST." <14676.818686224@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:14:11 +0100 Message-ID: <4748.818687651@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Since you're the only human alive (or dead) who understands libdisk, > could you possibly take a look at it? I'd like to have a new version > of sysinstall available that 2.1 users can whap over their existing > one if at all possible given that this is a _really bad_ bug! > % grep open write_disk.c fd = open(device,O_RDWR); warn("open(%s) failed",device); The next thing: that piece of code looks like this: int Write_Disk(struct disk *d1) { int fd,i,j; struct disk *old = 0; struct chunk *c1; int ret = 0; char device[64]; u_char *mbr; struct dos_partition *dp,work[NDOSPART]; int s[4]; strcpy(device,"/dev/r"); strcat(device,d1->name); fd = open(device,O_RDWR); if (fd < 0) { warn("open(%s) failed",device); return 1; } [...] what can I say ? I've never seen it in the standalone tst01.c version which I have used for this purpose a lot of times... I guess we need some 3rd party code review... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 05:22:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA03216 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 05:22:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA03200 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 05:22:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA14789; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 05:20:59 -0800 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall considered harmful! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:14:11 +0100." <4748.818687651@critter.tfs.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 05:20:59 -0800 Message-ID: <14787.818688059@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > what can I say ? > > I've never seen it in the standalone tst01.c version which I have > used for this purpose a lot of times... > > I guess we need some 3rd party code review... Yes, I agree. I wasn't blaming you, necessarily, I just couldn't see the problem in my code either! Since neither of us can see it, perhaps someone else would be willing to help us out here? I am going to set about building a "spam box" today in hopes of at least being able to reproduce the problem under controlled conditions. If anyone else would care to do the same, I'd definitely appreciate it. The more eyes on this one the better - we really really can't live with this particular bug! The damage it does is too severe. Thanks.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 05:27:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA03922 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 05:27:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA03911 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 05:27:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA04784; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:26:21 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall considered harmful! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 05:20:59 PST." <14787.818688059@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:26:21 +0100 Message-ID: <4782.818688381@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > what can I say ? > > > > I've never seen it in the standalone tst01.c version which I have > > used for this purpose a lot of times... > > > > I guess we need some 3rd party code review... > > Yes, I agree. I wasn't blaming you, necessarily, I just couldn't see > the problem in my code either! Since neither of us can see it, > perhaps someone else would be willing to help us out here? yes please... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 06:10:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA08576 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:10:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA08561 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:10:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id JAA22621; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:12:45 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA02395; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:12:43 +0500 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:12:43 +0500 Message-Id: <9512111412.AA02395.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: joe@ns.via.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: unable to fork???? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I have a 100MHZ pentium that I use as a web and FTP server. Recently > we've been seeing Apache complaining about "can't spawn process". After > making it print out errno from the failing fork(), we're getting EAGAIN. > > I make a kernel with maxusers == 50 thinking that this would solve my problem. > but it didn't. > > Normally the system runs with 65-70 processes. When it gets to 99 or 100 it > refuses to fork any more. > > Where is this limit set? How can I increase it? What other resources can I > tweak for a heavily loaded machine? > > Thanks, > > Joe > Joe, I had a similar problem. Try adding these lines to you kernel config file: maxusers 64 options "CHILD_MAX=256" options "OPEN_MAX=256" By doing this I was able to open more than 20 or so xterms.... Maybe this will help you. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 06:13:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA08898 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:13:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA08615 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:10:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.12]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA09874; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:43:34 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA10768; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:43:29 +0100 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:43:29 +0100 Message-Id: <199512111143.MAA10768@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: PLEASE do not send unsubscribe messages to this (or any other) list! In-Reply-To: <199512110526.VAA12065@time.cdrom.com> References: <199512110526.VAA12065@time.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >P.S. If you follow up to this, please do NOT cc the announce list >or you'll simply be doing exactly what I'm trying to prevent >with this announcement. Likewise, I don't expect follow-up messages >to announce apologising for the misdirections - if you sent a bogus >unsubscribe, quit while you're behind and don't compound your error! :) Make announce@freebsd.org to a moderate list. Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 06:27:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA10287 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:27:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sumter.awod.com (awod.com [198.81.225.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA10276 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:27:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from srob@localhost) by sumter.awod.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA08625; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:24:46 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:24:46 -0500 (EST) From: Sean Robertson To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: phk@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall considered harmful! In-Reply-To: <14676.818686224@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Perhaps this has been brought up before and I missed it, but, after recompiling a kernel under 2.1, I can not even get sysinstall to work. Instead, I get a message that says /stand/sysinstall: Exec format error. Wrong Architecture. I have tried this under two seperate ftp installations and recieved the same results both times. Sean P. Robertson From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 06:44:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA13175 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:44:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13151 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA04880; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:42:22 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Sean Robertson cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall considered harmful! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:24:46 EST." Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:42:22 +0100 Message-ID: <4878.818692942@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Perhaps this has been brought up before and I missed it, but, after > recompiling a kernel under 2.1, I can not even get sysinstall to work. > Instead, I get a message that says > > /stand/sysinstall: Exec format error. Wrong Architecture. > > I have tried this under two seperate ftp installations and recieved the > same results both times. > You removed the gzip code... sysinstall is a gzip'ed binary. Try: file /stand/sysinstall zcat < /stand/sysinstall > /tmp/foo file /tmp/foo :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 06:50:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA14219 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:50:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA14210 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:50:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id JAA25750; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:53:07 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA12707; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:53:05 +0500 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:53:05 +0500 Message-Id: <9512111453.AA12707.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Diskless systems X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have, with the help of MANY people, gotten a fully diskless system up and running. Server is a Pentium 75 with 16 Meg ram. Diskless is a 386DX-40 with 8 Meg ram. I will post a complete 'ls -lr' of all the files that are on the diskless machines 'NFS mounted drives' as well as the contents of all pertinent files in a few weeks, I am still removing what I think are 'not required files'. Keep in mind that the goal of this exercise was to build a diskless X terminal. It runs the kernel, required daemons and X. All apps are run on the server. This frees up a lot of memory on the server because 'X' is not requied to run. It runs on the diskless X terminal. Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 07:10:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA17222 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:10:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA17213 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA15150; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:08:57 -0800 To: Sean Robertson cc: phk@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall considered harmful! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:24:46 EST." Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:08:56 -0800 Message-ID: <15148.818694536@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk You removed the gzip'd binary support, that's why! :-) Jordan > Perhaps this has been brought up before and I missed it, but, after > recompiling a kernel under 2.1, I can not even get sysinstall to work. > Instead, I get a message that says > > /stand/sysinstall: Exec format error. Wrong Architecture. > > I have tried this under two seperate ftp installations and recieved the > same results both times. > > > Sean P. Robertson > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 07:20:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA18209 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:20:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from skiddaw.elsevier.co.uk (skiddaw.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA18152 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:19:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by skiddaw.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA11917; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:18:06 GMT Received: from cadair.elsevier.co.uk (actually host cadair) by snowdon with SMTP (PP); Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:14:22 +0000 Received: (from dpr@localhost) by cadair.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA05518; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:14:30 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199512111514.PAA05518@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Subject: Re: A call for DNS secondaries to server for .freebsd.org To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:14:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: cross@math.psu.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512082305.AAA18506@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Dec 9, 95 00:05:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Ollivier Robert who said > > It seems that Dan Cross said: > > > What do you think? I can get the domain name and a name server sorted > > > out but not the actual mirror sites, not enough bandwidth. > > > > I agree with this logic, it also fits in with the problem that Jordan > > mentioned regarding the existing freebsd.org stuff in the US. Why bother > > changing stuff around when there's an easier, and arguably more intuitive > > alternative? > > Forget about it in France. A new domain after the first one that you get > with your provider will cost you between $200/y and $600/y depending on > whether he (the provider) has paid the $6000 fee to be in the FR-NIC > council or not. > > In France, it is not as easy as paying $50/y for a domain :-( > > In other words, forget about freebsd.org.fr. I don't even think they would > accept it as they ask the name to be a registered trade mark in order to > reduce name space pollution in .fr. How do they deal with non-profit organisations? I'm just curious, the UK naming committee mailing list discussed naming conventions a few months ago and I argued strongly against adopting a policy of only allowing .co.uk names to be given to registered companies since there a lots of legitimate bodies that might want a .co.uk domain name that are not registered companies. Is this common around the world, has the UK got a half sensible policy for once :-) Ohh, there's no charge in the UK either at the moment though that was another thing under discussion. -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. Internet: paul@netcraft.co.uk, http://www.netcraft.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 1225 447500 (work) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 07:26:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA19040 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:26:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from skiddaw.elsevier.co.uk (skiddaw.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA19024 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:25:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by skiddaw.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA11933; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:20:37 GMT Received: from cadair.elsevier.co.uk (actually host cadair) by snowdon with SMTP (PP); Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:17:19 +0000 Received: (from dpr@localhost) by cadair.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA05545; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:17:43 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199512111517.PAA05545@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Subject: Re: A call for DNS secondaries to server for .freebsd.org To: cross@math.psu.edu (Dan Cross) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:17:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, cross@math.psu.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512091904.OAA00238@hausdorff.math.psu.edu> from "Dan Cross" at Dec 9, 95 02:04:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Dan Cross who said > > > Another point that I hadn't thought of that Dave Barr pointed out to me was > that a lot of counties don't use the standard convention for domain naming, > that is, in England that use *.co.uk instead of *.com.uk. Thus, it would turn > into a big mess with the country level authorities. Another thing that Dave > pointed out to me was that DNS traffic isn't really all that taxing, so the > benefits would be minimal. :-) Well, it's not that insignificant a load if the domain starts to have lots of machines in it and you're getting a lot of machines making requests. > Given that, I think that Jordan's original idea of splitting things up into > *..freebsd.org is preferable.... It would be nice to reduce > traffic overall (hey, every little bit helps) but it's just too complicated, > not to mention expensive. :-( Compared to the mail load and file retrieval though you're right and getting mirrors whatever they're called is a more important concern. It was just a thought but it looks like the UK is the only one with a .org.?? convention so it's probably not going to work. -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. Internet: paul@netcraft.co.uk, http://www.netcraft.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 1225 447500 (work) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 07:31:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA19652 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA19637 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:31:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Mon, 11 Dec 95 15:31 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA22497; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:07:33 +0100 Message-Id: <199512111507.QAA22497@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Who's working on ISDN? To: hm@altona.hamburg.com Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:07:32 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Dec 9, 95 03:07:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hellmuth Michaelis writes: > >> From the keyboard of Greg Lehey: > >> Various people in the Linux group over here (who have a marginally >> working Teles driver) have approached Teles and tried to get >> information about the cards, so far without success. I'll give these >> guys a call on Monday and discuss the matter with them. I've heard >> from other sources that they're interested in a UNIX driver, but so >> far they haven't been able to show anything. Possibly we could come >> to an agreement with them. I'll report more when I've spoken to them. > > There is no need to talk to Teles, they refuse to give out docs to anyone > so far. *Sigh* Yes, that's what I had heard too. I thought that Jordan might have been on to something. I still don't mind calling them up, since it looks as if we might be on to a better route to the real info, but it won't do any harm to compare notes. Do you think that the idea of a US (or other foreign) commercial company would make a difference? Maybe I can swing something there. > In the meantime, since the U-ISDN and isdn4linux Linux drivers, > the structure of the boards is pretty obvious and (through written code > in the drivers mentioned above and below) documented Well, I don't know if they're documented. I've just about been able to figure out a control flow. The whole Linux teles module has about 5 comments. > so the missing hard- > ware docs is not the problem in writing a driver for these cards anymore. Well, it *does* make them easier. > The 0.2 ii driver from Dietmar Friede and Juergen Krause which Jordan sent > out some weeks ago has support for the Teles/Creatix boards and is (after > some serious debugging) halfway (better quarterway) working. Well, that's good news, anyway. Jordan, where is it? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 07:44:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21463 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:44:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA21450 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 07:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA01366; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:59:45 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:59:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199512111559.KAA01366@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Poul-Henning Kamp From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > I think Cygnus is an interesting parallel here. >> > >> > I think that if Julian wants to do it, he should be most welcome indeed. >> >> You miss my entire point. The question is not so much whether or not >> it should be done, the question is whether it will be done in such a >> way so as to actually succeed. If you think it's an easy problem then >> I urge you think about it another 10 or 20 times. >> >> An organization that collapses, leaving its customers stranded, would >> be far worse than no organization at all. > >I'm pretty confident that Julian knows what he's doing. > >I don't think he expects it to be particular easy, and I anticipate >that he will not promise more than he can bite off, if I know him right. > >If anybody were to head this, Julian would be my first choice. > >Jordan, we also have to be careful not to try to "censor" ventures >based on FreeBSD. (Now, there! Take that! The "C" word, used to >be good for a 3 week flamefest on Usenet :-) > >The next thing would be to be worried that Rod sells some junky HW, and >that it would damage our reputation. > >That would indeed be going down the very same slippery slope that made >Jolitz disappear from polite company. > >If Julian sets up "WorldWide Virtual FreeBSD Support", I have no problems >with that. > >If people engage in bussiness with him, they have the duty to examine >what they put their money into. That is not our problem. But the possibility exists that his "customers" may want something "fixed" or to work in a specific way that is contrary to the direction that the core team wants to take. You may also get pressure from your friends to prioritize things differently, to meet a more commercial agenda. There will almost certainly be pressure to branch off, which could weaken both sides. Support without control is a very sticky business. But, of course, anyone is free to do as they please. But he asked for comments..... db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 08:00:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA22737 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from chrome.jdl.com (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA22728 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:00:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.jdl.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA10719; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:58:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199512111558.JAA10719@chrome.jdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.jdl.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Video capture In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:05:35 PST." <199512111205.EAA03986@rah.star-gate.com> Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:58:54 -0600 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In a totally unrelated thread, "Amancio Hasty Jr." scribbled: > You are right about e-mail not being the best medium for such a thing and > in fact is the reason why I recommend that you get a Matrox Meteor, > vat-4.0a2, the latest sound driver and have a serious face to face > with Julian. So, here's the question for someone: What-the-heck video capture board *do* I have, and can I use it on a FreeBSD system? Now, so that it's not a *total* psychic-convention, I'll describe it some and we'll see how close I can get to the right info... (In Terry Lambert standard format. :-) 1) I have a Vivo 320 video conference system including the Video capture board and the ISDN card (POS IBM Waverunner). 2) The video card is a 3/4 length ISA bus card 3) It uses only I/O address 140, 150 or 160 4) It apparently has no IRQ requirements. 5) It's capable of both NTSC and PAL formats. 6) It's got a some logitech digital camera connected to it 7) The mic is on the camera, but can be plugged in too 8) Sound output is to external speakers The connections on the "real end" of the card are: Digital video camera Normal video RCA jack Audio in Audio out some unreferenced itty-bitty audio-like jack. On the board there appears to be One row of three independent pin-out busses with 13x2, 13x2 and 17x2 One row near the ISA bus with 17x2 and 13x2 SCSI bus (?) For all I really know, this could be a proprietary Vivo card... The important chips on the board itself say: (c) Winnov LP 1993 ITT ITT Wavia R10 ASCO 2300 VSP 2860 401 G 003359711 G 012156002 3512 16 4102 30/58 Some of those could easily be ISA bus chips, for all I know. There also appears to be a SCSI bus chip on the board at the "other end" near a SCSI bus pin out: ZILOG Z0538010VSC SCSI 9411 L4 The FCC Id number for the board appears to be: DZLVCB-01 On the back, the only thing that might be construed as a Logo is a combination of a backwards R and U, then SMB2. So, there. Anyone know what the heck it is and if I can use it with FreeBSD? Well, OK, I mean without first writing my own driver for it... :-) Thanks, jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 08:17:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA24156 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:17:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA24143 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA16770; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 03:13:12 +1100 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 03:13:12 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512111613.DAA16770@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, phk@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall considered harmful! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >The code fragment from /usr/src/release/sysinstall/disks.c that >writes disk labels out looks like this: > for (i = 0; devs[i]; i++) { > Chunk *c1; > Disk *d = (Disk *)devs[i]->private; > if (!devs[i]->enabled) > continue; > Set_Boot_Blocks(d, boot1, boot2); > msgNotify("Writing partition information to drive %s", d->name); > if (Write_Disk(d)) { > dialog_clear(); > msgConfirm("ERROR: Unable to write data to disk %s!", d->name); > return RET_FAIL; > } >If devs[i]->enabled is not set, which I've proven to be the case for >all disks that weren't selected, it will skip the disk, leading me to I tried installing on fd1. The message "Writing partition information to drive 0" was printed and the MBR was clobbered (from all 0's to all 0's except for 0xaa55 at the end) so devs[0]->enabled must have been set. sysinstall is challenged by installing on fd1. I had to set things up specially: compile fd.c with options TEST_LABELLING mknod the relevant devices add "fd" to the list of disks in libdisks/disk.c (sysinstall run as non-root says that I don't have any disks except floppies. It apparently doesn't distinguish EACCESS from ENXIO) Then the partition table part of sysinstall works well and the labelling part not so well (it won't allow creation of partitions smaller than 1MB). The bug can be reproduced something like this: clear the fd MBR's and labels (dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rfd0 count=2 etc.) Create a default slice on fd1 Create a default partition on fd1 (fd1s1a / 1MB UFS Y) Write The equivalent using vn instead of fd should fail in the same way. Floppies are better for debugging without a debugger because they are slow and have separate access LEDs. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 08:22:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA24475 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:22:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from innocence.interface-business.de (innocence.interface-business.de [193.101.57.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA24460 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:22:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ida.interface-business.de (ida.interface-business.de [193.101.57.203]) by innocence.interface-business.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01042; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:23:39 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by ida.interface-business.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA03191; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:21:47 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512111621.RAA03191@ida.interface-business.de> Subject: running in 2 MB... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, davdig@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:21:47 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@interface-business.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-31809-14 X-Fax: +49-351-3361187 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Booting wd(0,a)/kernel @ 0x100000 text=0x7a000 data=0x9000 bss=0x97ec symbols=[+0x814+0x4+0x927c+0x4+0x939c] total=0x19f620 entry point=0x100000 Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD pre-2.1-test #0: Mon Dec 11 16:56:38 MET 1995 root@dospc3.interface-business.de:/usr/src/sys/compile/VZENTR CPU: i386DX (386-class CPU) real memory = 2359296 (2304K bytes) avail memory = 1204224 (1176K bytes) :-) Btw., the 2304 KB is a lie, 256 K of the ISA hole is being remapped. [...] The machine sort of works: Enter pathname of shell or RETURN for sh: # swapon -a swapon: adding /dev/wd0s1b as swap device # fsck ** /dev/rwd0a ** Last Mounted on / ** Root file system ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups CLEAN FLAG NOT SET IN SUPERBLOCK FIX? [yn] y 6301 files, 36836 used, 13363 free (23 frags, 3335 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation) ***** FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED ***** # # ls .cshrc dev kernel.GENERIC root usr .profile dist kernel.old sbin var COPYRIGHT etc lkm stand OK home mnt sys bin kernel proc tmp # mount root_device on / (local, read-only) # cat /etc/fstab /dev/wd0s1b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/wd0a / ufs rw 1 1 proc /proc procfs rw 0 0 # mount -u /dev/wd0a / # ls .cshrc dev kernel.GENERIC root usr .profile dist kernel.old sbin var COPYRIGHT etc lkm stand OK home mnt sys bin kernel proc tmp ...but every now and then, i get: # pstat -T panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small Just curious: is there any way to avoid this? I'm somewhat surprised, since the kmem_map should suffice for 32 MB of VM, so how comes that it's ``too small''? (I could recompile elsewhere, but would like to use the machine for some light-weight work.) -- J"org Wunsch Unix support engineer joerg_wunsch@interface-business.de [private: http://www.sax.de/~joerg/] From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 08:28:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA25127 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:28:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.ge.com (ns.ge.com [192.35.39.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA25119 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:28:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from crissy.gemis.ge.com ([3.29.7.57]) by ns.ge.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA24950 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:28:19 -0500 Received: from salem.ge.com (carsdb.salem.ge.com [3.29.7.15]) by crissy.gemis.ge.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA06125 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:23:01 -0500 Received: from combs.salem.ge.com by salem.ge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16012; Mon, 11 Dec 95 11:28:17 EST Received: (from steve@localhost) by combs.salem.ge.com (8.7.2/8.6.11) id LAA07106 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:28:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:28:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Stephen F. Combs" Message-Id: <199512111628.LAA07106@combs.salem.ge.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Sysinstall Considered Harmful (reply) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just used 2.1.0 standalone sysinstall to add a disk to my system last night! Due to it's wanting to include sd0 in the partition table whether I chose it or not, I just used the 'create partition' portion to generate a (bogus) disklabel entry. I then labeled the disk (forcing a std FDISK partition entry) and then edited the partition table with 'disklabel'. This worked just fine (no clobber of sd0, no nuthin'). Still not the greatest, 'cuz you've got to calculate the offsets, sizes etc...... but it DID work. As an additional input, this was with a system upgraded to 2.1.0 via the 'make world', 'build kernel', 'make world' paradigm..... (yes, I had to manually build the 2.1.0 standalone sysinstall)........ In the label disk portion, it wanted to include the partitions already on sd0 (with no mount points assigned). This was why I chose to just allocate the entire disk to FBSD and manually create individual partitions. Hdwre Info: Blue Lightning '486DX4 @ 75MHz 24MB Ram ATI VGA Extra (i think that's the name) 1GB Seagate 3.5" SCSI-2 1GB Seagate 5.25" SCSI-1 (the new disk) (new to me, OLD disk being re-applied for add'nl storage) Archive 150MB QIC Tape Sun/Sony CD-ROM Adaptek 1542CF SCSI Controller Steve Combs CombsSF@Salem.GE.COM (540)387-8828 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 08:35:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA25926 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:35:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA25915 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:35:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA15559; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:33:59 -0800 To: Bruce Evans cc: phk@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall considered harmful! In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Dec 1995 03:13:12 +1100." <199512111613.DAA16770@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:33:59 -0800 Message-ID: <15557.818699639@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I tried installing on fd1. The message > > "Writing partition information to drive 0" > > was printed and the MBR was clobbered (from all 0's to all 0's except > for 0xaa55 at the end) so devs[0]->enabled must have been set. I've just committed a fix that may clobber this bug to sysinstall in 2.1 and -current - could I possibly prevail upon you to grab the latest sysinstall and try your test scenario again? I'm not exactly sure what you did, but I did find something that might just have caused the symptoms. If so, I owe Poul-Henning a nice Czech pilsner. I also tried out your suggestion of checking errno for EACCES in the deviceTry() code. Thanks!! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 08:40:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA26821 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:40:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA26799 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:40:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA15608; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:38:37 -0800 To: joerg_wunsch@interface-business.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, davdig@freebsd.org Subject: Re: running in 2 MB... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:21:47 +0100." <199512111621.RAA03191@ida.interface-business.de> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:38:37 -0800 Message-ID: <15606.818699917@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > (I could recompile elsewhere, but would like to use the machine for > some light-weight work.) Light-weight? Yeah, no kidding! Like what, exactly? Running a shell, echoing arguments, that kinda thing? :-) :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 08:43:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA27093 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from innocence.interface-business.de (innocence.interface-business.de [193.101.57.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA27078 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:43:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ida.interface-business.de (ida.interface-business.de [193.101.57.203]) by innocence.interface-business.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01090; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:44:58 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by ida.interface-business.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA03631; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:43:07 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512111643.RAA03631@ida.interface-business.de> Subject: Re: running in 2 MB... To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:43:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: joerg_wunsch@interface-business.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, davdig@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@interface-business.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <15606.818699917@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 11, 95 08:38:37 am X-Phone: +49-351-31809-14 X-Fax: +49-351-3361187 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > (I could recompile elsewhere, but would like to use the machine for > > some light-weight work.) > > Light-weight? Yeah, no kidding! Like what, exactly? Running a > shell, echoing arguments, that kinda thing? :-) :-) Well, there's enough of swap in the box. :-) Nope, i'd like to setup a dummy to play with some sendmail configuration. The machine should fake to become someone else just for playing. Nothing more than init, a shell, and sendmail itself are required. -- J"org Wunsch Unix support engineer joerg_wunsch@interface-business.de [private: http://www.sax.de/~joerg/] From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 10:23:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11410 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:23:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from gandalf.me.ksu.edu (joed@gandalf.me.ksu.edu [129.130.41.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11400 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from joed@localhost) by gandalf.me.ksu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) id MAA18068 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:23:31 -0600 From: Joe Diehl Message-Id: <199512111823.MAA18068@gandalf.me.ksu.edu> Subject: problems with ports in 2.1-RELEASE && freefall To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:23:30 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk There are a couple of ports that are essentially broken. The problem is that make, nor myself for that matter, is unable to fetch the distribution. The two ports that come to mind now are ncftp2 and xsnow. Neither of these ports have a distribution on ftp.freebsd.org in the /pub/FreeBSD/distfiles directory. I finally found the xsnow distribution in, I believe, current/distfiles, or something like that. I finally gave up on ncftp2. I'm afraid I can't provide more information, simply because it has been so long since I've tried. The other question is, why does xcolors have a dependency on ncftp2? Since I couldn't fetch the ncftp2 dist, I simply cut that dependency out of the Makefile... The program seems to work just fine... --- Joe Diehl Engineering Computing Center Kansas State University From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 10:36:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA13322 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:36:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from galactica.galactica.it (galactica.galactica.it [151.99.164.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13258 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:35:44 -0800 (PST) From: davide@galactica.it Received: from galactica.it (uucp@localhost) by galactica.galactica.it (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id TAA16413 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 19:19:18 +0100 Received: by galactica.it (UUPM-1.52) id D2255Qf; Sun, Dec 10, 1995 19:17:24 EST Message-Id: <9512101917.D2255Qf@galactica.it> X-Mailer: UUPlus Mail 1.52 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Crash Date: Sun, 10 Dec 95 19:17:24 EST Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, My FreeBSD 2.0 system crashes one tiome every 2 days ... and the system.log says: kernel: mb_map full Can you help me to understand why ? The machine is a Web Server and have the Harvest cache to manage proxy server. Thanks for reply Ciao Davide From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 11:02:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA16307 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:02:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from tiny.mcs.usu.edu (tiny.mcs.usu.edu [129.123.15.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16290 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:02:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kurto@localhost) by tiny.mcs.usu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA25571; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:01:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:01:56 -0700 From: Kurt Olsen Message-Id: <199512111901.MAA25571@tiny.mcs.usu.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com Subject: Re: Diskless systems Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I'd be interested in the size you've got. I was playing around and built a MFS booting kernel, that had init, ifconfig, sh, and mount_nfs (500K MFS.) Then on my NFS server, I had XF86_VGA16, libc.so, libm.so, libgnumalloc.so, XF86Config, ldconfig. That would get the whole thing running and in X. The server was also running xfs (the font server) and xdm. The whole setup for the diskless unit was 2 megs on the server and the kernel was 1.2 megs. Server: 486DX2/80 12 MB RAM Client: 386DX/25 4 MB RAM (slowest 386 ever made, also has broken mathco) If you want details let me know. Kurt Olsen kurto@tiny.mcs.usu.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 11:15:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA17377 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:15:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA17309 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:13:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA24375 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:15:29 +0100 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:15:29 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199512111915.UAA24375@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: dup mails now manifest Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I don't want to be the carrier of bad news but at present I'm seeing nearly every mail going to the freebsd lists twice. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 11:31:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA18114 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:31:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18081 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:30:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA24470 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:32:28 +0100 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:32:28 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199512111932.UAA24470@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: linux-emu (what wks, what not?) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk For verification purposes I installed the linux xdoom binaries and it works. OTOH, a couple of binaries (coming with the Xinside OpenGL server for Linux) do not work. Looking at them I can state the following differences: # file ./xdoom /usr/bin/X11/xglinfo ./xdoom: Linux/i386 demand-paged executable (ZMAGIC) /usr/bin/X11/xglinfo: Linux/i386 demand-paged executable (QMAGIC) # Is QMAGIC == Elf and thus not supported? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 11:32:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA18315 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18300 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:32:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA06848; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:30:52 -0700 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:30:52 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199512111930.MAA06848@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: dup mails now manifest In-Reply-To: <199512111915.UAA24375@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> References: <199512111915.UAA24375@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I don't want to be the carrier of bad news but at present I'm seeing > nearly every mail going to the freebsd lists twice. Not I. I just checked, and my email filter has only hit two duplicates since midnight (~12 hours ago), and one of those was a non-FreeBSD list. Now, you *are* on the freebsd-hubs list twice, once as: Christoph Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 11:43:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA19191 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:43:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA19140 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:43:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA24536; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:41:18 +0100 Message-Id: <199512111941.UAA24536@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: dup mails now manifest To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:41:18 +0100 (MET) Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512111930.MAA06848@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 11, 95 12:30:52 pm From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > I don't want to be the carrier of bad news but at present I'm seeing > > nearly every mail going to the freebsd lists twice. > > Not I. I just checked, and my email filter has only hit two duplicates > since midnight (~12 hours ago), and one of those was a non-FreeBSD list. > > Now, you *are* on the freebsd-hubs list twice, once as: This may be another problem :-) but I think it were not messages to -hubs. > > Christoph Kukulies > kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > > > Nate > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 11:50:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA20195 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:50:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20179 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA01668; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:48:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199512111948.MAA01668@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who's working on ISDN? To: hm@altona.hamburg.com Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:48:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: grog@lemis.de, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Dec 9, 95 03:07:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Various people in the Linux group over here (who have a marginally > > working Teles driver) have approached Teles and tried to get > > information about the cards, so far without success. I'll give these > > guys a call on Monday and discuss the matter with them. I've heard > > from other sources that they're interested in a UNIX driver, but so > > far they haven't been able to show anything. Possibly we could come > > to an agreement with them. I'll report more when I've spoken to them. > > There is no need to talk to Teles, they refuse to give out docs to anyone > so far. In the meantime, since the U-ISDN and isdn4linux Linux drivers, > the structure of the boards is pretty obvious and (through written code > in the drivers mentioned above and below) documented so the missing hard- > ware docs is not the problem in writing a driver for these cards anymore. Is there a NetWare Server ODI module for this board? I still think writing an ODI module interface is the way to go... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 12:06:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA21830 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21804 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:06:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA01693; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:03:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199512112003.NAA01693@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:03:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dennis@etinc.com, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199512110233.SAA00735@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Dec 10, 95 06:33:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I would hate to convert my hobby into something like work :-(. When > > I took the SVR4 support/development I thought that I would be like a > > kid in a candy store. It ended up that the kid ate too much candy... > > Hmmm... Where is the candy ? > > BTW: We do need professional support for some of the things that people > don't feel like doing. But do you then accept the resulting code into the free tree with no questions asked? This is the other side of the coin for those considering offering commercial support. If the answer is "no", then they will have to reintegrate their changes each release. Me, Brian Litzinger, and several others have already found that there are rather strenuous requirements for integration. I'm afraid that a commercial support organization, unless it was tied to the core team and tree maintenance, would find it more convenient to come out with "BSDI Mark II". This is not something that I would encourage setting yourself up for. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 12:12:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA22343 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:12:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22338 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:12:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA01718; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:09:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199512112009.NAA01718@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:09:54 -0700 (MST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <10986.818645903@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 10, 95 05:38:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Basically it's one of those double-edged swords, like merging with > NetBSD. A lot of really enticing benefits on the surface but a host > of sticky problems to solve underneath. Like how do you deal with suddenly running on 12 more platforms for nearly free. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 12:23:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA22718 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:23:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22713 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:23:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA01754; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:21:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199512112021.NAA01754@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Video capture To: jdl@jdl.com (Jon Loeliger) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:21:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199512111558.JAA10719@chrome.jdl.com> from "Jon Loeliger" at Dec 11, 95 09:58:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > (In Terry Lambert standard format. :-) > > 1) I have a Vivo 320 video conference system including the Video > capture board and the ISDN card (POS IBM Waverunner). > 2) The video card is a 3/4 length ISA bus card > 3) It uses only I/O address 140, 150 or 160 > 4) It apparently has no IRQ requirements. > 5) It's capable of both NTSC and PAL formats. > 6) It's got a some logitech digital camera connected to it > 7) The mic is on the camera, but can be plugged in too > 8) Sound output is to external speakers o I don't mix lines with and without periods on them. o I only include periods at all if one or more list items contain more than one sentence. Like this one. o I generally attempt to avoid abbreviations unless they are so well known that no one will have to read them twice. o I use tabs between the item identifiers and the text. o I don't number things unless there is a sequence involved, or they are an expansion on an enumerated list, where I've given a count of items previously. There. Now you've been flamed, in "list responding to Terry Lambert standard format" standard format. 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 12:33:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA23338 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:33:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22972 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:27:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA01804; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:22:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199512112022.MAA01804@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dennis@etinc.com, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:03:09 MST." <199512112003.NAA01693@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:22:55 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Terry Lambert said: > > > I would hate to convert my hobby into something like work :-(. When > > > I took the SVR4 support/development I thought that I would be like a > > > kid in a candy store. It ended up that the kid ate too much candy... > > > > Hmmm... Where is the candy ? > > > > BTW: We do need professional support for some of the things that people > > don't feel like doing. > > But do you then accept the resulting code into the free tree with no > questions asked? > > This is the other side of the coin for those considering offering > commercial support. If the answer is "no", then they will have to > reintegrate their changes each release. Me, Brian Litzinger, and > several others have already found that there are rather strenuous > requirements for integration. Well Terry, in certain cases it would make sense to pay attention to people who are willing to pay for changes in the system . Who knows if enough of them request the same changes or bug fixes it may be worthwhile to consider integrating the changes into the system. Of course something like that would have to be consider in a case by case basis. The other side of the coin is if Julian set out to start his own business it may be to our own best interest to keep his efforts as close as possible to the core distribution to avoid BSD II. Besides, this is all academic at this point since we don't know exactly what Julian has in mind. Old Timers Tale: I saw quite a few tops-10 installations hang themselves due to custom changes to the kernel or system. Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 12:34:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA23450 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from maui.com (langfod@waena.mrtc.maui.com [199.4.33.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23438 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by maui.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03137 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:38:43 -1000 From: David Langford Message-Id: <199512112038.KAA03137@ maui.com> Subject: system monitoring program (over time) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:38:41 -1000 (HST) X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know of a program (set of programs) that can watch a system for a period of days and keep track of system usage swap space, CPU hungry programs, etc. I am trying to see where some of my systems need improving and my eyes are getting blurry from watching top in windows for hours on end. Thanks muchly. -- /--------------------------------------------------------------------\ | David Langford - Kihei, Maui, Hawaii - langfod@maui.com | | Maui Research and Technology Center -- Network Administrator | \--------------------------------------------------------------------/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 12:57:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA24796 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:57:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA24789 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:57:26 -0800 (PST) From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199512112057.MAA24789@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:57:26 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, dennis@etinc.com, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2913.818675618@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Dec 11, 95 10:53:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I think that if Julian wants to do it, he should be most welcome indeed. > > It must not be seen as a mandatory position for everybody though, I > fully understand John (and I take the same position I think), but > that doesn't mean that somebody else should do it. > I wish anyone the best if they want to embark on the support effort. But support is not fun and is sometimes very hard work. If FreeBSD gets really big, it could be a very good deal though. Pure techies usually don't end up making the $$$ -- it is the businessman/investors. If Julian can make a go of it then *super*. I think that everyone has warned him of some of the downside problems. I wish you and ANYONE else the best on such a venture, Julian. John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 13:06:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA25441 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:06:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA25432 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:06:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA01829; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:02:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199512112102.OAA01829@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:02:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dennis@etinc.com, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199512112022.MAA01804@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Dec 11, 95 12:22:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This really belongs on another list, but since there isn't a philosophy list for FreeBSD, I'll leave it here. > > But do you then accept the resulting code into the free tree with no > > questions asked? > > > > This is the other side of the coin for those considering offering > > commercial support. If the answer is "no", then they will have to > > reintegrate their changes each release. Me, Brian Litzinger, and > > several others have already found that there are rather strenuous > > requirements for integration. I wish you had quoted the sentence following the one above for context. This makes me look like I'm complaining. 8-(. > Well Terry, in certain cases it would make sense to pay attention to > people who are willing to pay for changes in the system. I would point out first that anyone who hacks changes to the system, and in particular, the kernel, *IS* in fact paying for changes in the system. They are paying at their normal consulting rate as an opportunity cost. When I hack BSD, I pay on the order of $60-$120/hour for the priviledge. So I see little difference between me spending several thousand dollars of my time coding, or earning money which I then pay someone else to do coding for me. The second case does not then ennoble the code. > Who knows if enough of them request the same changes or bug fixes > it may be worthwhile to consider integrating the changes into > the system. This is actually just plain silly. If I'm getting paid to do changes in a support situation, I do the changes. It pays *me* to have the changes integrated, in terms of reduced reintegration cost after the next release (we are now in a parallel developement situation), but how can it "pay the core team"? If there are multiple cases of someone wanting a bug fix, it may in fact pay me, as a commercial support person, to sell the fixes multiple times *instead* of offering them for integration immediately: delaying the submission until I have milked them. This would (should) not change the desirability of the changes in the eyes of the core team. If I was an ISP and Brian charged $100 for his driver, I'd probably pay it. If the core team is getting multiple requests for the change, on the other hand, then it's likely that they are coming from more than one commercial support organization. Meaning there is already more than one conflicting change for the "fix". > Of course something like that would have to be consider in a > case by case basis. The other side of the coin is if Julian set > out to start his own business it may be to our own best interest > to keep his efforts as close as possible to the core distribution to > avoid BSD II. Down this road lies implied emotional blackmail. It isn't illegal or physical in any sense, but consider this case: I am Joe-Bob's commercial support house. I have a number of fixes that the core team takes, and I have a number that they don't take. For each one that they do not take, my irritation level at having to reintegrate the changes each time they make a code release, or each time one of my customers sees a change to -current that they want that happens to hit close to the same code, will be increased. When I hit a sufficient irritation level, where my costs of integration exceed the benefits to my customers of tracking -current, "BSDI MARK II" pops out. Now the core team must play a game of appeasement, keeping the irritation level sufficiently low that I don't go off on my own with my existing customer base. This actually would act to either bend the will of the core team or otherwise compromise their intellectual integrity, or it would act to *encourage* a pure-commercial split. > Besides, this is all academic at this point since we don't know exactly > what Julian has in mind. It really doesn't matter what he has in mind. The point is that a customer is not an engineer, and letting a customer drive the direction, even indirectly, will result in changes that are expedient to appease the customer, and thus, at some point, below the quality criteria that the core team currently imposes on itself. I'm much less worried about Julian's intent than I am about the effect the people Julian brings into his organization will have. > Old Timers Tale: I saw quite a few tops-10 installations hang themselves > due to custom changes to the kernel or system. This is extremely apropos, given the pressure on a commercial support organization to use their own source tree and dictate their own direction based on their customer's needs in the face of the patches (custom change to the kernel or system) being turned down on the basis that, while they meet the support organizations's customer's needs, they do not meet the needs of the BSD community in general. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 13:44:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA00504 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:44:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00457 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:44:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA06350 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:50:24 -0700 From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199512112150.OAA06350@hemi.com> Subject: What ever happened to... ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:50:24 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk 1. The "BSD Consortium" or whatever proposed awhile back. Everyone was so eager to donate $$$, but then it just died. 2. The "tutoring" program, where newbies/neophytes get paired with more knowledgable people to pass along FreeBSD wisdom. Just curious, -Ade Barkah -------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - www: -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 14:39:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07610 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:39:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07602 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:39:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <16441(8)>; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:29:42 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28310; Mon, 11 Dec 95 17:29:40 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13877; Mon, 11 Dec 95 17:29:39 EST Message-Id: <9512112229.AA13877@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Rob Misiak Cc: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: gcc 2.7.2-compiled kernel In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:22:50 PST." <199512101422.JAA00447@madonna.indecent.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:29:36 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Bruce Evans ("Re: gcc 2.7.2-compiled kernel") wrote: > > > > It would work if you really used the default cpp. Don't install gcc's cpp > > anywhere in the path. > > I've tried that.. I still get the same errors. :( > > Rob > Hmmm...I installed (at least) 2.7.1 on freebsd...I'm compiling the 2.1 kernel without problems (maybe its 2.7.2). -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 14:41:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07977 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:41:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA07953 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA28487 ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:41:18 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA25815 ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:41:17 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id UAA08609; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:12:23 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199512111912.UAA08609@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: uucp installation To: tri@iki.fi Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:12:22 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199512110849.KAA10761@pooh.tky.hut.fi> from "Timo J Rinne" at Dec 11, 95 10:49:32 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1419 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that Timo J Rinne said: > Two little tests. I think that current sendmails want to see 8BITMIME > in the EHLO response. Not sure though. The second one (8.7.2) wants 8BITMIME. > 220 santra.hut.fi ESMTP Sendmail 8.7.2/8.7.2; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:45:46 +0200 (EET) > EHLO freebsd.org > 250-santra.hut.fi Hello tri@pooh.tky.hut.fi [130.233.33.233], pleased to meet you > 250-EXPN > 250-8BITMIME To disable 8->7 bits reencoding, one must the either the '8' flag in the mailer definition or use the smtp8 mailer (which amount to the same). Sendmail 8.7.x must have the following too : # 8-bit data handling O EightBitMode=pass8 This is the default but some sites change it :-( -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Sat Dec 9 19:14:38 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 14:42:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA08052 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA08031 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:41:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA28491 ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:41:25 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA25818 ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:41:18 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id TAA08436; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 19:56:45 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199512111856.TAA08436@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: A call for DNS secondaries to server for .freebsd.org To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 19:56:45 +0100 (MET) Cc: cross@math.psu.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512111514.PAA05518@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Dec 11, 95 03:14:30 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1419 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Paul Richards said: > How do they deal with non-profit organisations? Most of them only need the first domain so it is generally "given" by the provider when one buy the connection. > I'm just curious, the UK naming committee mailing list discussed naming > conventions a few months ago and I argued strongly against adopting a policy > of only allowing .co.uk names to be given to registered companies since there > a lots of legitimate bodies that might want a .co.uk domain name that are not > registered companies. It is legitimate but .fr is such a mess that the fact that the domain is a registered trade mark helps a lot. > Is this common around the world, has the UK got a half sensible policy > for once :-) Ohh, there's no charge in the UK either at the moment though > that was another thing under discussion. The problem in France is less that it is not free anymore but more that it is damn expensive. I have a domain with some friends that is reserved but not delegated. It would cost us 3000 FF to do it :-( -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Sat Dec 9 19:14:38 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 14:48:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA08588 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:48:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA08246 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:43:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA12366; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:43:30 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA26633; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:43:30 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA15270; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:42:29 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512112242.XAA15270@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: dup mails now manifest To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph P. Kukulies) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:42:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512111915.UAA24375@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at Dec 11, 95 08:15:29 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > I don't want to be the carrier of bad news but at present I'm seeing > nearly every mail going to the freebsd lists twice. I've also seen dup's lately. :-( -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 14:53:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA08810 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:53:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA08800 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:53:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA12545; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:51:59 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA26703; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:51:58 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA15298; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:43:57 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512112243.XAA15298@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Crash To: davide@galactica.it Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:43:56 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9512101917.D2255Qf@galactica.it> from "davide@galactica.it" at Dec 10, 95 07:17:24 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As davide@galactica.it wrote: > > My FreeBSD 2.0 system crashes one tiome every 2 days ... and the > system.log says: > > kernel: mb_map full Please, upgrade to a newer version. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 16:08:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA17248 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17237 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:08:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA07435; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:04:37 -0800 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199512120004.QAA07435@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: Re: Who's working on ISDN? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:04:37 -0800 (PST) Cc: grog@lemis.de, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5661.818536175@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 9, 95 11:09:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The real story is that some Central Offices in the U.S. are able to > offer real 64K B channels and some can't, especially if the endpoints > span multiple COs. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with the > switch (I know people running real, measured, 64K speeds on both the > AT&T 5ESS and NT DMS-100 switches) and would appear to be more of a > factor involving trunk bandwidth between COs. > > A friend at Cisco just got bumped from 56K to 64K as a result of some > PacBell upgrade, and he's a considerable distance away from the Cisco > side, so evidently the problem is being dealt with (at least in the > S.F. Bay Area) PacBell claims they'll have 100% clear channel 64K in California real soon... -Archie _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 16:09:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA17333 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:09:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA17328 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:09:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA01639; Mon, 11 Dec 95 19:08:47 -0500 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id AAA16230; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 00:08:47 GMT Message-Id: <199512120008.AAA16230@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: gcc 2.7.2-compiled kernel In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:29:36 EDT. <9512112229.AA13877@gnu.mc.xerox.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 19:08:46 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > > > > It would work if you really used the default cpp. Don't install gcc's cpp > > > anywhere in the path. > > > > I've tried that.. I still get the same errors. :( > > > > Rob > > > > Hmmm...I installed (at least) 2.7.1 on freebsd...I'm compiling > the 2.1 kernel without problems (maybe its 2.7.2). > I reported here last week that I had no problems with a 2.7.2 compiled kernel, but 2.7.2 isn't good enough for X. Dunno what broke, and no time to figure out what either. I'll try again with whatever comes out next, but in the mean time X compiled with 2.6.3 works, so I've uninstalled 2.7.2, and suggest that you do the same. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY X Consortium From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 17:48:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA26885 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:48:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nike.efn.org (gurney_j@haus.efn.org [198.68.17.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26880 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:48:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA05204; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:43:40 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:43:26 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: Jon Loeliger cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Video capture In-Reply-To: <199512111558.JAA10719@chrome.jdl.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Jon Loeliger wrote: > There also appears to be a SCSI bus chip on the board at the > "other end" near a SCSI bus pin out: > > ZILOG > Z0538010VSC > SCSI > 9411 L4 well... this is a scsi chip... and you could probablly find a driver for it, if you don't have one, from Media Vision as the Tslcd.sys or something like that... I have a PAS+ that uses this chip (exact same excent the last line is 9151 GP, most likely when the chip was manufactured)... while we're talking about this chip... do you guys know if it is compatible with the nca0 driver? I've tried it with out success... of course I haven't tried any thing else but the default values for it... if it isn't... you might want to modify the nca0 description line to PAS cards with a NCR53xxx or what ever chip... or modify it to the NCR53xxx chip because I have a cheep 8bit SCSI card that works fine with the nca0 driver... the chip is a NCR53C400 as detected... and the board is a NECT T130... right now running an old Apple double speed cdrom drive on it... Thanks for all the help... TTYL... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) GCS/M/Sd#h+s+!gau-a--w++++vC+++++UF++++P---E---N++W---M--V--Y+t+5++G+b+D++ B----eu+h++!f++n---- CD5OUF++++.L-------2W.DM----N.9---NET2SP3s.2,4s.,4d.2,6--- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 17:52:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA27073 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:52:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nightflight.com (nightflight.com [205.162.141.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA27030 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:51:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from laptop.nightflight (laptop [205.162.141.3]) by nightflight.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA01954; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:54:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:54:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199512120154.RAA01954@nightflight.com> X-Sender: gcrutchr@nightflight.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: questions@freebsd.org From: Gary Crutcher Subject: Routing help Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have switched over from PPP to a 56 KB frame relay. My host machine is 205.162.141.1. My router is 205.162.141.14. I have an ethernet card in the FreeBSD box. I have a laptop connected via RG54 at 205.162.141.3. I am getting the following message when booting up(Note the arpresolve): de0 rev 17 int a irq 15 on pci0:20 reg16: ioaddr=0xfc80 size=0x80 de0: DC21041 [10Mb/s] pass 1.1 Ethernet address 00:00:c0:b0:89:be pci0: uses 8388736 bytes of memory from ff000000 upto ffbdffff. pci0: uses 128 bytes of I/O space from fc80 upto fcff. changing root device to sd0a de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo Here is my sysconfig file: =================sysconfig======== network_interfaces="de0 lo0" ifconfig_de0="inet nightflight 204.212.233.253 netmask 0xfffffff0" ifconfig_lo0="inet localhost 205.162.141.14 netmask 0xfffffff0" static_routes="multicast loopback router" route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface ${hostname}" route_loopback="${hostname} localhost" route_router="205.162.141.1 -netmask 0xfffffff0 -interface 205.162.141.14" defaultrouter=205.162.141.14 routedflags=-s Here is my gateways file: =================gateways========== host 204.212.233.253 gateway 204.212.233.128 metric 1 active host 204.212.233.128 gateway 205.162.141.14 metric 1 active host 205.162.141.1 gateway 205.162.141.14 metric 1 active Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Gary Crutcher From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 18:01:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27439 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:01:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27434 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA17019; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:59:42 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: dennis@etinc.com, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:09:54 MST." <199512112009.NAA01718@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:59:42 -0800 Message-ID: <17017.818733582@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Basically it's one of those double-edged swords, like merging with > > NetBSD. A lot of really enticing benefits on the surface but a host > > of sticky problems to solve underneath. > > Like how do you deal with suddenly running on 12 more platforms for > nearly free. No, it's how do you deal with suddenly being forced to do release engineering for 12 platforms where one was formerly enough to drive the release engineer to early retirement? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 18:15:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27996 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:15:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27991 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:15:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA17081; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:14:10 -0800 To: Ade Barkah cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:50:24 MST." <199512112150.OAA06350@hemi.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:14:09 -0800 Message-ID: <17079.818734449@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 1. The "BSD Consortium" or whatever proposed awhile back. Everyone > was so eager to donate $$$, but then it just died. I have no idea, though I've finally provided details on donating to FreeBSD itself for those interested, see: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/submitters.html (it's also chapter 17 of the handbook). I haven't collected enough to buy so much as a disk drive yet, but hope springs eternal. There are about 3-4 developers who could really use development systems, and I'd certainly like to build them ones. > 2. The "tutoring" program, where newbies/neophytes get paired > with more knowledgable people to pass along FreeBSD wisdom. I think this died for lack of knowledgable people with sufficient spare time. :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 18:48:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29527 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:48:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.net.hk (john@gateway.hk.linkage.net [202.76.7.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29522 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:48:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from john@localhost) by gateway.net.hk (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA11404; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:45:12 +0800 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:45:12 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: FreeBSD hackers Subject: 3C590C Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk A client pick up a 3C590C ethernet card assured it was the equivalent of the 3C509 which was recommended. It is not probed by fbsd 2.1.0. Is there a driver for this card or any way to use it? thanks jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 20:41:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA06677 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:41:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA06672 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:40:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.12/8.6.9.1) id VAA22955 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:34:29 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199512120434.VAA22955@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: /stand/sysinstall can't access DOS To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:34:28 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Greetings! sysinstall seems to work fine loading distributions from DOS *when invoked from BOOT floppy*. However, if invoked from a running FBSD (i.e. /stand/sysinstall), it complains that it can't find any of the files on the DOS partition (e.g., \FREEBSD\SRC). Has this already been reported/fixed/worked-around? Thx, don From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 20:43:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA06739 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:43:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [199.166.238.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA06711 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 20:43:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA00997; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:42:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:42:21 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-Reply-To: <17079.818734449@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > 1. The "BSD Consortium" or whatever proposed awhile back. Everyone > > was so eager to donate $$$, but then it just died. > > I have no idea, though I've finally provided details on donating to > FreeBSD itself for those interested, see: > http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/submitters.html > > (it's also chapter 17 of the handbook). > > I haven't collected enough to buy so much as a disk drive yet, but > hope springs eternal. There are about 3-4 developers who could really > use development systems, and I'd certainly like to build them ones. > Why not have some sort of "registration" fee, or something similar with a different name, that gives some sort of "extra level of service" or something... Erk... The idea is some sort of fund raising in order to help support, hardware wise, those that are developing the OS, and/or drivers for it. For instance...someone here mentioned something about t-shirts and whatnot? That was the first I've ever heard about it, and the last. Or, how about a list of what is required, and approx. costs for it. Break it down according to some sort of "development group". Then, individuals could support those aspects that are important to them. Personally, if proper accounting procedures were put into place so that one were kept informed abotu how much money came in, and how much went to different projects, I'd be willing to "pay for support" in the way of development on the OS. *shrug* I don't know...how many ppl out there know enough to help Terry out with continuing the SMP development, but can't afford the hardware, or don't personally need it? Or, hey, here's one...who makes up the FreeBSD CDroms? how much does it cost to make them? how much of a markup do "resellers" put on them? how hard would it be to setup a network of "distributors" that are associated with "the Project" who basically keeps a limited stock of the CDroms available for resale, with "all profits going back to the Project"? Better yet, what would it take to make a CDrom distribution "in house" so that you could offer up to date distributions? And *takes deep breath* finally, how many ppl are using FreeBSD right now? Does anyone have any statistics on it? This is only meant to provide ideas, altho some are just possibly ridiculous... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, soon to be: | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 21:10:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA07630 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:10:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA07625 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA17761; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:09:21 -0800 To: Don Yuniskis cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: /stand/sysinstall can't access DOS In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:34:28 MST." <199512120434.VAA22955@seagull.rtd.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:09:20 -0800 Message-ID: <17759.818744960@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It sounds like a variation on the same problem I fixed with CDROMs (though the fix won't actually be on the CDROM version :-( ) - I'll look into it, thanks. Jordan > Greetings! > sysinstall seems to work fine loading distributions from DOS > *when invoked from BOOT floppy*. However, if invoked from a running > FBSD (i.e. /stand/sysinstall), it complains that it can't find any > of the files on the DOS partition (e.g., \FREEBSD\SRC). > Has this already been reported/fixed/worked-around? > Thx, > don From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 21:17:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA07901 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:17:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA07896 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA17782; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:14:21 -0800 To: "Marc G. Fournier" cc: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:42:21 EST." Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 21:14:21 -0800 Message-ID: <17780.818745261@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Why not have some sort of "registration" fee, or something > similar with a different name, that gives some sort of "extra level > of service" or something... I would prefer to leave it voluntary in all respects for now, and as uncomplicated as possible. If a distributor would like to donate some portion of all CD sales back, that'd be nice. I'm also going to try to get WC to chip in a small amount each month. I'm also more than happy to provide accounting information WRT donations and how they're being spent, it's just sort of moot right now given that we've no money to spend anyway. If the amount actually gets up to the 4 figure range somewhere, I'll also discuss any and all expendatures with the core team before making them. In the meantime, the simpler the better. I don't have time right now (or even usually at all) to get into really complicated fund-raising schemes and would actually prefer that such arrangements, if they're to be made at all, be done by 3rd parties who then simple present me with one unified deposit. It's complicated enough just producing the "product" here. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 22:24:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA10394 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA10388 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:24:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA06030; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:23:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199512120623.WAA06030@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dennis@etinc.com, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FBSD support inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:02:11 MST." <199512112102.OAA01829@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:23:18 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Terry Lambert said: > This really belongs on another list, but since there isn't a philosophy > list for FreeBSD, I'll leave it here. > > > > > But do you then accept the resulting code into the free tree with no > > > questions asked? > > > > > > This is the other side of the coin for those considering offering > > > commercial support. If the answer is "no", then they will have to > > > reintegrate their changes each release. Me, Brian Litzinger, and > > > several others have already found that there are rather strenuous > > > requirements for integration. > > I wish you had quoted the sentence following the one above for context. > This makes me look like I'm complaining. 8-(. > > > Well Terry, in certain cases it would make sense to pay attention to > > people who are willing to pay for changes in the system. > > I would point out first that anyone who hacks changes to the system, > and in particular, the kernel, *IS* in fact paying for changes in the > system. They are paying at their normal consulting rate as an > opportunity cost. When I hack BSD, I pay on the order of $60-$120/hour > for the priviledge. So I see little difference between me spending > several thousand dollars of my time coding, or earning money which > I then pay someone else to do coding for me. The second case does > not then ennoble the code. Nice try, consider this : Perhaps we can attract more people if they get paid . BTW: I am software consultant and I am very aware how much it costs me to hack on FreeBSD. > > > Who knows if enough of them request the same changes or bug fixes > > it may be worthwhile to consider integrating the changes into > > the system. > > This is actually just plain silly. If I'm getting paid to do changes > in a support situation, I do the changes. It pays *me* to have the > changes integrated, in terms of reduced reintegration cost after > the next release (we are now in a parallel developement situation), > but how can it "pay the core team"? If there are multiple cases of > someone wanting a bug fix, it may in fact pay me, as a commercial > support person, to sell the fixes multiple times *instead* of offering > them for integration immediately: delaying the submission until I > have milked them. This would (should) not change the desirability > of the changes in the eyes of the core team. Hmm.... A different twist, the core people don't see a need of integrating the changes into the system due to lets say a perception that the there is not enough interest . In such a situation , I would imagine that to support such a change one should charge for the cost of the "custom" code. > If I was an ISP and Brian charged $100 for his driver, I'd probably > pay it. > > If the core team is getting multiple requests for the change, on the > other hand, then it's likely that they are coming from more than one > commercial support organization. Meaning there is already more than > one conflicting change for the "fix". Thats one of way of looking at it , if the "fixes" are functinally equivalent then all I see as a problem is in picking a fix . I would love to leave the arbitration of such a task to the core team. Why, maybe they can serve as unbias arbitrators. > > > Of course something like that would have to be consider in a > > case by case basis. The other side of the coin is if Julian set > > out to start his own business it may be to our own best interest > > to keep his efforts as close as possible to the core distribution to > > avoid BSD II. > > Down this road lies implied emotional blackmail. It isn't illegal or > physical in any sense, but consider this case: > > I am Joe-Bob's commercial support house. I have a number of fixes that > the core team takes, and I have a number that they don't take. For > each one that they do not take, my irritation level at having to > reintegrate the changes each time they make a code release, or each > time one of my customers sees a change to -current that they want that > happens to hit close to the same code, will be increased. A pity that life is not a continous binary system. Look I really don't understand your point here. I would *love* to have a bunch of people crying because their functinal enhancements did not make it into the release. The implication here is that there is an overflow of work and interest on the system. > When I hit a sufficient irritation level, where my costs of integration > exceed the benefits to my customers of tracking -current, "BSDI MARK II" > pops out. Well, there are men and then there are babies . The latter tends to have more emotional fits than the other. The "BSDI MARK II" option is really not much of an option given the level of responsibility that it would entail . A "BSDI MARK II" is not necessarily as easy as lets say starting "OpenBSD". > Now the core team must play a game of appeasement, keeping the irritation > level sufficiently low that I don't go off on my own with my existing > customer base. They are already doing that ... If I don't like whats going on over here I may chose to go Linux, NetBSD, OpenBSD, etc... > This actually would act to either bend the will of the core team or > otherwise compromise their intellectual integrity, or it would act to > *encourage* a pure-commercial split. > > Besides, this is all academic at this point since we don't know exactly > > what Julian has in mind. > > It really doesn't matter what he has in mind. The point is that a > customer is not an engineer, and letting a customer drive the direction, ** Okay all customers are not engineers or engineering organizations *** > even indirectly, will result in changes that are expedient to appease > the customer, and thus, at some point, below the quality criteria that > the core team currently imposes on itself. Gosh, I am happy that I am not your client 8) What the heck , engineering for the sake of engineering is truly well engineering for the engineers!!! > I'm much less worried about Julian's intent than I am about the effect > the people Julian brings into his organization will have. That is between Julian and his organization .... > > Old Timers Tale: I saw quite a few tops-10 installations hang themselves > > due to custom changes to the kernel or system. > Last but not least we are assuming that Julian is capable of starting his proposed business. In other words, we are jumping way , way ahead folks!! Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 22:25:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA10445 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:25:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from yokogawa.co.jp (yhqfm.yokogawa.co.jp [202.33.29.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA10439 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc.yokogawa.co.jp ([133.140.4.100]) by yokogawa.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb3/3.3Wb4-firewall:08/09/94) with SMTP id PAA29538 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:25:11 +0900 Received: from leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp by sjc.yokogawa.co.jp (4.1/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA-R/GW) id AA07147; Tue, 12 Dec 95 15:25:10 JST Received: from cabbage by leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.8/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA/pa) id AA27525; Tue, 12 Dec 95 15:25:09 +0900 Received: by cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.6/3.3Wb) id AA08759; Tue, 12 Dec 95 15:25:33 +0900 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 15:25:33 +0900 From: Mihoko Tanaka Message-Id: <9512120625.AA08759@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ipcs bug Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I found a trouble in 'ipcs' command. If SHMMNI is bigger than MSGMNI, ipcs occurs core dump. The 'ipcs' allocates the buffer for the shared memory information , but its size is wrong. In /usr/src/usr.bin/ipcs/ipcs.c: if (display & SHMINFO) { struct shmid_ds *xshmids; kvm_read(kd, symbols[X_SHMSEGS].n_value, &shmsegs, sizeof(shmsegs)); xshmids = malloc(sizeof(struct shmid_ds) * msginfo.msgmni); ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think that it should be 'shminfo.msgmni' ----------------- cut here ---------------------------------- --- ipcs.c Mon Sep 19 19:24:38 1994 +++ ipcs.c.new Tue Dec 12 15:08:07 1995 @@ -310,7 +310,7 @@ struct shmid_ds *xshmids; kvm_read(kd, symbols[X_SHMSEGS].n_value, &shmsegs, sizeof(shmsegs)); - xshmids = malloc(sizeof(struct shmid_ds) * msginfo.msgmni); + xshmids = malloc(sizeof(struct shmid_ds) * shminfo.shmmni); kvm_read(kd, (u_long) shmsegs, xshmids, sizeof(struct shmid_ds) * shminfo.shmmni); ----------------- cut here ---------------------------------- -- Mihoko Tanaka From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 22:48:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA11377 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:48:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from beaver.cs.washington.edu (beaver.cs.washington.edu [128.95.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA11370 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:48:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from tera.com (tera.com [128.95.3.1]) by beaver.cs.washington.edu (8.7.2/7.1be+) with SMTP id WAA20593; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:48:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from tao.UUCP by tera.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA04168; Mon, 11 Dec 95 22:47:15 PST Received: by tao.thought.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tPOTp-0001QzC; Mon, 11 Dec 95 22:46 PST Message-Id: From: kline@tao.thought.org (Gary D. Kline) Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? To: scrappy@hub.org (Marc G. Fournier) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:46:25 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at Dec 11, 95 11:42:21 pm Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Marc G. Fournier: > > On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > 1. The "BSD Consortium" or whatever proposed awhile back. Everyone > > > was so eager to donate $$$, but then it just died. > > > > I have no idea, though I've finally provided details on donating to > > FreeBSD itself for those interested, see: > > http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/submitters.html > > > > (it's also chapter 17 of the handbook). > > > > I haven't collected enough to buy so much as a disk drive yet, but > > hope springs eternal. There are about 3-4 developers who could really > > use development systems, and I'd certainly like to build them ones. > > > [...] > > For instance...someone here mentioned something about t-shirts > and whatnot? That was the first I've ever heard about it, and the > last. I'd go for a coffee mug with the BSD Kirk's daemon on it ((and be sure to avoid the environs around Dallas!)); or a tee- or a sweatshirt. But then you're getting into business, which I've learned the hard way, is _way_ over my head... . In April, '94 I saw the first issue of a small magazine on Linux. Chances are that it did not survive, but if it did, why not join up with them. Together the *BSD world and the Linuxers are probably 1% of the market. Separately? *ouch*. > Or, how about a list of what is required, and approx. costs > for it. Break it down according to some sort of "development group". > > Then, individuals could support those aspects that are > important to them. > > Personally, if proper accounting procedures were put into > place so that one were kept informed abotu how much money came in, > and how much went to different projects, I'd be willing to "pay for > support" in the way of development on the OS. > > *shrug* I don't know...how many ppl out there know enough to > help Terry out with continuing the SMP development, but can't afford > the hardware, or don't personally need it? > > Or, hey, here's one...who makes up the FreeBSD CDroms? how > much does it cost to make them? how much of a markup do "resellers" > put on them? how hard would it be to setup a network of "distributors" > that are associated with "the Project" who basically keeps a limited > stock of the CDroms available for resale, with "all profits going back > to the Project"? Better yet, what would it take to make a CDrom > distribution "in house" so that you could offer up to date > distributions? > > And *takes deep breath* finally, how many ppl are using > FreeBSD right now? Does anyone have any statistics on it? I'd like to have a rough idea, too. My SWAG is that it's about the same as the number of computer users who are in the upper 0.5 percentile. > > -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public access uNix From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 22:58:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA11742 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from westhill.cdrom.com (westhill.cdrom.com [192.216.223.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA11736 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:58:36 -0800 (PST) From: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by westhill.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA01431 ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:57:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: westhill.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: kline@tao.thought.org (Gary D. Kline) cc: scrappy@hub.org (Marc G. Fournier), jkh@time.cdrom.com, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:46:25 PST." Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:57:55 -0800 Message-ID: <1429.818751475@westhill.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary D. Kline wrote in message ID : > I'd go for a coffee mug with the BSD Kirk's daemon > on it ((and be sure to avoid the environs around > Dallas!)); or a tee- or a sweatshirt. order code: bsd-mug price: $9.95 shipping & handling: $5.00 Walnut Creek already have them :-) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 23:13:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA12388 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:13:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from yokogawa.co.jp (yhqfm.yokogawa.co.jp [202.33.29.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12373 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:13:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc.yokogawa.co.jp ([133.140.4.100]) by yokogawa.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb3/3.3Wb4-firewall:08/09/94) with SMTP id QAA03045 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:12:59 +0900 Received: from leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp by sjc.yokogawa.co.jp (4.1/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA-R/GW) id AA09561; Tue, 12 Dec 95 16:12:58 JST Received: from cabbage by leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.8/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA/pa) id AA28657; Tue, 12 Dec 95 16:12:57 +0900 Received: by cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.6/3.3Wb) id AA08802; Tue, 12 Dec 95 16:13:21 +0900 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 16:13:21 +0900 From: Mihoko Tanaka Message-Id: <9512120713.AA08802@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: Mihoko Tanaka's message of Tue, 12 Dec 95 15:25:33 +0900 <9512120625.AA08759@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> Subject: Re: ipcs bug Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>I found a trouble in 'ipcs' command. >>If SHMMNI is bigger than MSGMNI, ipcs occurs core dump. >>The 'ipcs' allocates the buffer for the shared memory >>information , but its size is wrong. >> >> >> kvm_read(kd, symbols[X_SHMSEGS].n_value, &shmsegs, sizeof(shmsegs)); >> xshmids = malloc(sizeof(struct shmid_ds) * msginfo.msgmni); >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >>I think that it should be 'shminfo.msgmni' ~~~~~~~~ 'shmmni' I'm sorry . -- Mihoko Tanaka From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 23:23:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA12863 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:23:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12842 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA02259; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:23:25 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA00209; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:23:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199512120723.XAA00209@corbin.Root.COM> To: kline@tao.thought.org (Gary D. Kline) cc: scrappy@hub.org (Marc G. Fournier), jkh@time.cdrom.com, questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 95 22:46:25 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:23:25 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> And *takes deep breath* finally, how many ppl are using >> FreeBSD right now? Does anyone have any statistics on it? > > I'd like to have a rough idea, too. My SWAG is > that it's about the same as the number of > computer users who are in the upper 0.5 percentile. Based on many factors, the current number being thrown about is approximately 100,000 users. ...but this may only be accurate to within an order of magnitude. :-) -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 23:23:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA12901 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:23:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12889 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.12/1.63) id IAA10022; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 08:23:42 +0100 X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA00476 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 00:25:35 +0100 Message-Id: <199512112325.AAA00476@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Silent Reboot of 2.1 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 00:25:34 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I just experienced the first silent reboot of Fbsd 2.1. I was working with GIMP, and to use it more effectively I changed the shared memory size to 16MB: shminfo: shmmax: 16777216 (max shared memory segment size) shmmin: 1 (min shared memory segment size) shmmni: 32 (max number of shared memory identifiers) shmseg: 8 (max shared memory segments per process) shmall: 4096 (max amount of shared memory in pages) I accomplished this by editing /sys/i386/include/vmparam.h and changing SHMMAXPGS from 1024 to 4096. This is the only thing I can think of that might have caused this. Could it? Regards, Marc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 23:44:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA14154 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:44:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA14149 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:44:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA18263; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:41:38 -0800 To: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com cc: kline@tao.thought.org (Gary D. Kline), scrappy@hub.org (Marc G. Fournier), questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:57:55 PST." <1429.818751475@westhill.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:41:38 -0800 Message-ID: <18261.818754098@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > order code: bsd-mug > price: $9.95 > shipping & handling: $5.00 > > Walnut Creek already have them :-) You should also note that the $5.00 S&H is per-order. Paying $15.00 for a mug probably wouldn't make much sense, but bundling your T-shirt and CDROM in with the same order makes it much more attractive. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Dec 11 23:47:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA14393 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [199.166.238.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA14366 Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:46:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA02483; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:44:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:44:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com cc: "Gary D. Kline" , jkh@time.cdrom.com, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-Reply-To: <1429.818751475@westhill.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Dec 1995 gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com wrote: > Gary D. Kline wrote in message ID > : > > I'd go for a coffee mug with the BSD Kirk's daemon > > on it ((and be sure to avoid the environs around > > Dallas!)); or a tee- or a sweatshirt. > > order code: bsd-mug > price: $9.95 > shipping & handling: $5.00 > > Walnut Creek already have them :-) > First question...who is Walnut Creek? Second is...out of that $9.95, what goes towards FreeBSD development? I'd be more tempted to purchase a mug and a t-shirt if part of the proceeds went towards further developments/funding of FreeBSD, then if it just goes to some money making organization...that didn't quite sound right... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, soon to be: | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 00:27:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA18456 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 00:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [199.166.238.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA18428 Tue, 12 Dec 1995 00:27:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA02667; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:50:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:50:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-Reply-To: <18261.818754098@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > order code: bsd-mug > > price: $9.95 > > shipping & handling: $5.00 > > > > Walnut Creek already have them :-) > > You should also note that the $5.00 S&H is per-order. Paying $15.00 > for a mug probably wouldn't make much sense, but bundling your T-shirt > and CDROM in with the same order makes it much more attractive. :-) > Well, considering that I don't know who they are, and the most of seen of the name is in subject lines...is there a URL for them? And if part of the proceeds do go towards FreeBSD development... are there any other similar projects going on? Maybe a short FAQ posted weekly/bi-weekly or monthly to keep "newbies" abreast of them? There are alot of ppl out there that could care less, except that they get a nice free OS...but there are lots out here that really don't have the skills/training to do more then rudementary(?) debugging of code (hey...I try *grin*), but are willing to contribute in other ways. Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, soon to be: | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 00:29:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA18705 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 00:29:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [199.166.238.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA18649 Tue, 12 Dec 1995 00:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA02483; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:44:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:44:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com cc: "Gary D. Kline" , jkh@time.cdrom.com, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-Reply-To: <1429.818751475@westhill.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Dec 1995 gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com wrote: > Gary D. Kline wrote in message ID > : > > I'd go for a coffee mug with the BSD Kirk's daemon > > on it ((and be sure to avoid the environs around > > Dallas!)); or a tee- or a sweatshirt. > > order code: bsd-mug > price: $9.95 > shipping & handling: $5.00 > > Walnut Creek already have them :-) > First question...who is Walnut Creek? Second is...out of that $9.95, what goes towards FreeBSD development? I'd be more tempted to purchase a mug and a t-shirt if part of the proceeds went towards further developments/funding of FreeBSD, then if it just goes to some money making organization...that didn't quite sound right... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, soon to be: | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 00:30:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA18799 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 00:30:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA18781 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 00:30:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA11430; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:27:37 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: John-Mark Gurney cc: Jon Loeliger , "Amancio Hasty Jr." , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Video capture In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:43:26 PST." Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:27:37 +0100 Message-ID: <11428.818756857@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > There also appears to be a SCSI bus chip on the board at the > > "other end" near a SCSI bus pin out: > > > > ZILOG > > Z0538010VSC > > SCSI > > 9411 L4 This is indeed a 5380 kind of chip. The nca driver may or may not work with it, we need more data to be able to tell. You will probably have to disassemble a dos-driver for it to find out. > well... this is a scsi chip... and you could probablly find a driver for > it, if you don't have one, from Media Vision as the Tslcd.sys or > something like that... I have a PAS+ that uses this chip (exact same > excent the last line is 9151 GP, most likely when the chip was > manufactured)... If the tslcd.sys works, then the nca driver will too I belive. > while we're talking about this chip... do you guys know if it is > compatible with the nca0 driver? I've tried it with out success... of > course I haven't tried any thing else but the default values for it... should be, modulus the hardware around it :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 00:39:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA19909 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 00:39:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA19903 Tue, 12 Dec 1995 00:39:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA11346; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:20:27 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: davidg@Root.COM cc: kline@tao.thought.org (Gary D. Kline), scrappy@hub.org (Marc G. Fournier), jkh@time.cdrom.com, questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:23:25 PST." <199512120723.XAA00209@corbin.Root.COM> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:20:26 +0100 Message-ID: <11344.818756426@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> And *takes deep breath* finally, how many ppl are using > >> FreeBSD right now? Does anyone have any statistics on it? > > > > I'd like to have a rough idea, too. My SWAG is > > that it's about the same as the number of > > computer users who are in the upper 0.5 percentile. > > Based on many factors, the current number being thrown about is > approximately 100,000 users. ...but this may only be accurate to within an > order of magnitude. :-) Which of course spans the range from "pretty good" to "look out Bill" :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 01:29:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA24120 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 01:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [199.166.238.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA24023 Tue, 12 Dec 1995 01:28:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA02483; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:44:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:44:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com cc: "Gary D. Kline" , jkh@time.cdrom.com, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-Reply-To: <1429.818751475@westhill.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Dec 1995 gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com wrote: > Gary D. Kline wrote in message ID > : > > I'd go for a coffee mug with the BSD Kirk's daemon > > on it ((and be sure to avoid the environs around > > Dallas!)); or a tee- or a sweatshirt. > > order code: bsd-mug > price: $9.95 > shipping & handling: $5.00 > > Walnut Creek already have them :-) > First question...who is Walnut Creek? Second is...out of that $9.95, what goes towards FreeBSD development? I'd be more tempted to purchase a mug and a t-shirt if part of the proceeds went towards further developments/funding of FreeBSD, then if it just goes to some money making organization...that didn't quite sound right... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, soon to be: | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 02:01:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA26587 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:01:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA26577 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:01:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Tue, 12 Dec 95 10:00 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA12665 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:57:06 +0100 Message-Id: <199512120957.KAA12665@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: handbook in postscript? (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:57:05 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk A month ago, I wrote: > > John Capo writes: >> >> Marty Leisner writes: >>> >>> In docs, there is the handbook in html, ascii and tex. >>> I can't seem to latex it...can someone put the postscript >>> there? (even after I got the linuxdoc.sty). >>> >> >> Add the directory with linuxdoc.sty to TEXINPUTS or put linuxdoc.sty >> in the directory with the rest of the LaTeX style files. >> >> Or ftp://ftp.irbs.com/pub/handbook.ps.gz > > It's still a reasonable request to put it there in PostScript form. > I'd say it's a better choice than LaTex. > > BTW, if you can't get the LaTeX version formatted, I had no trouble > going via groff: > > cd /usr/src/share/doc/handbook > make handbook.nroff > groff -ms handbook.nroff >handbook.ps Well, that was a month ago. I tried it again today, and it didn't work. I can no longer find any refererence to nroff or PostScript in the makefiles in /usr/share/mk. Has something changed? I'm not that interested in creating nroff output, but I would like to be able to create PostScript. Any suggestions? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 02:04:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA26928 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:04:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from isbalham (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA26829 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:04:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id KAA21048 for freebsd.org!hackers; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:02:39 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:57:49 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:56:47 +0000 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Subject: Re: dup mails Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk JFTR, I too am seeing dups on this list, but not too many and there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason... -- Bob Bishop (01734) 774017 international code +44 1734 rb@gid.co.uk fax (01734) 894254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 02:04:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA27030 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:04:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [199.166.238.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA26967 Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:04:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA02483; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:44:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:44:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com cc: "Gary D. Kline" , jkh@time.cdrom.com, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What ever happened to... ? In-Reply-To: <1429.818751475@westhill.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Dec 1995 gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com wrote: > Gary D. Kline wrote in message ID > : > > I'd go for a coffee mug with the BSD Kirk's daemon > > on it ((and be sure to avoid the environs around > > Dallas!)); or a tee- or a sweatshirt. > > order code: bsd-mug > price: $9.95 > shipping & handling: $5.00 > > Walnut Creek already have them :-) > First question...who is Walnut Creek? Second is...out of that $9.95, what goes towards FreeBSD development? I'd be more tempted to purchase a mug and a t-shirt if part of the proceeds went towards further developments/funding of FreeBSD, then if it just goes to some money making organization...that didn't quite sound right... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, soon to be: | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 02:07:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA27409 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA27382 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:07:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA26332; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 21:06:39 +1100 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 21:06:39 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512121006.VAA26332@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, marc@bowtie.nl Subject: Re: Silent Reboot of 2.1 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I just experienced the first silent reboot of Fbsd 2.1. I was working >with GIMP, and to use it more effectively I changed the shared >memory size to 16MB: >shminfo: > shmmax: 16777216 (max shared memory segment size) > shmmin: 1 (min shared memory segment size) > shmmni: 32 (max number of shared memory identifiers) > shmseg: 8 (max shared memory segments per process) > shmall: 4096 (max amount of shared memory in pages) >I accomplished this by editing /sys/i386/include/vmparam.h and >changing SHMMAXPGS from 1024 to 4096. >This is the only thing I can think of that might have caused this. >Could it? Yes, shared memory pages are allocated in a submap of the kernel map, so if too many are allocated then malloc() may fail and bad things may happen. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 02:42:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA00796 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:42:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from westhill.cdrom.com (westhill.cdrom.com [192.216.223.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA00791 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:42:20 -0800 (PST) From: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by westhill.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA02409 ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:41:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: westhill.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dup mails In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:56:47 GMT." Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:41:45 -0800 Message-ID: <2407.818764905@westhill.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Bob Bishop wrote in message ID : > JFTR, I too am seeing dups on this list, but not too many and there doesn't > seem to be much rhyme or reason... if it's recently (like in the last hour or so) and coming from scrappy@hub.org, I noticed this too and tracked it down to his machine having the mail sticking in his queue for some reason (and his machine panicing regularly and restarting the queue run). the file has now been deleted so it shouldn't be seen anymore. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 04:50:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA10170 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 04:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jessica.RatsNest.VaBeach.VA.US. (shiva2.ipctech.com [199.181.207.232]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA10163 Tue, 12 Dec 1995 04:50:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199512121250.EAA10163@freefall.freebsd.org> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Pavlov's Cat" Organization: Organized? Me? Hah! To: "Marc G. Fournier" , hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 07:50:08 -240 Subject: Re: SNMP for FreeBSD? Reply-to: SimsS@Infi.Net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk A couple of weeks ago somebody mentioned "cmu-snmp" which I found (I think) in /incoming on freefall. With very little whacking I was able to get it built and put together a couple of csh scripts that periodically scan a few remote servers (NT, if you must know) and alert me in the even of an error on 'em. T'was truly a trivial exercise - about two hours total, and I don't have a clue as to what I'm doing. ;-) As far as an snmpd on FreeBSD, I'm planning on looking at same in the near future, so keep me posted if you discover any tips for doing so. : Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:50:31 -0500 (EST) : From: "Marc G. Fournier" : To: hackers@freebsd.org : Subject: SNMP for FreeBSD? : : Hi... : : A few questions... : : 1 - is there anything special I have to do to FreeBSD for : snmp? : 2 - is there an snmp package that works under FreeBSD? : 3 - are there any good books on snmp? : : thanks for your time... : : : Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting : scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, : soon to be: | | Information and : scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc : : -- ...sjs... Steve Sims (SJS7) SimsS@Infi.Net Systems Engineer, IPC Technologies, Inc. Virginia Beach, VA "Everyone wants to save the Earth; Nobody wants to help Mom do the dishes." ...P.J. O'Roarke From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 16:22:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA00538 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA00524 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:22:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA26867; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 01:23:02 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA10808 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 13 Dec 1995 01:22:30 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA31933 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Tue, 12 Dec 1995 23:31:03 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA01358; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 22:00:45 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199512122100.WAA01358@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: system monitoring program (over time) To: langfod@maui.com (David Langford) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 22:00:44 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199512112038.KAA03137@ maui.com> from "David Langford" at Dec 11, 95 10:38:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does anyone know of a program (set of programs) that can watch > a system for a period of days and keep track of system usage > swap space, CPU hungry programs, etc. This sounds like 'sar' and friends on the trusty ol' SysV system. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 16:33:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA01397 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:33:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunny.bog.msu.su (root@sunny.bog.msu.su [158.250.20.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01373 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:33:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dima@localhost) by sunny.bog.msu.su (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA15197; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:00:45 +0300 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:00:44 +0300 (????) From: Dmitry Khrustalev To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.ORG cc: terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Who's workinf on ISDN? In-Reply-To: <199512112034.MAA23474@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:48:43 -0700 (MST) Terry Lambert wrote: > > Is there a NetWare Server ODI module for this board? > > I still think writing an ODI module interface is the way to go... > Definitely. -Dima > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > - --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 17:01:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA04127 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 17:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [199.166.238.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04107 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 17:01:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA00258; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 20:00:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 20:00:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com cc: Bob Bishop , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dup mails In-Reply-To: <2407.818764905@westhill.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Dec 1995 gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com wrote: > Bob Bishop wrote in message ID > : > > JFTR, I too am seeing dups on this list, but not too many and there doesn't > > seem to be much rhyme or reason... > > if it's recently (like in the last hour or so) and coming from > scrappy@hub.org, I noticed this too and tracked it down to his machine > having the mail sticking in his queue for some reason (and his machine > panicing regularly and restarting the queue run). the file has now > been deleted so it shouldn't be seen anymore. > hey, I have some stuff coming in dups over here that had nothing to do with my machine :) It was only one email from here.. Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, soon to be: | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 17:09:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA04884 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 17:09:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay5.UU.NET (relay5.UU.NET [192.48.96.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04876 Tue, 12 Dec 1995 17:08:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from uucp2.UU.NET by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQztwe05709; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 20:08:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Received: from uanet.UUCP by uucp2.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 20:08:51 -0500 Received: by crocodil.monolit.kiev.ua; Wed, 13 Dec 95 03:05:36 +0200 Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.6.11/dk#3) id CAA23275; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 03:00:00 +0200 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 03:00:00 +0200 From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk To: mitayai@dreaming.org (Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe) Cc: jkh@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A call for DNS secondaries to server for .freebsd.org Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article you wrote: > > In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who said > > > > > > I'm not sure what to do about the U.S. ftp servers except perhaps > > > to be U.S.-centric about it and just use the freebsd.org domain space > > > directly for U.S. resources. Would people prefer to see ftp.us.freebsd.org? > > Do other countries have similar namespace conventions? We could get all > > the freebsd.org. domains allocated. This would reduce > > namserver load on freebsd.org's nameservers because the top level > > domain queries would go to the countries org nameserver and not > > freebsd.org's. i.e queries to ftp.freebsd.org.uk will come to the uk. > Hmmm... here in Canada it usually is required to be incorporated to get > just .ca (its much easier to do, say, .on.ca which is on a provincial > level... but, i can see what i can come up with. in Ukraine (.ua), there isn't org.ua domain at all (not that we haven't thought about it - "we" means domain administrators, incl. me as admin-c). Alternatively, you can apply for freebsd.com.ua ;-) (btw, is FreeBSD Inc. an officially registered legal entity?) Anyway, I think that you couldn't get all the freebsd.org.XX, so you should settle with different scheme. XX.ftp.freebsd.org could be good. -- No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife in the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 18:34:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA09499 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:34:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nebland (root@nebland.cnweb.com [204.214.128.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09483 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:34:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by nebland (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0tPh19-0002lSC; Tue, 12 Dec 95 20:34 CST Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 20:34:03 -36000 From: "Allen D. Harpham" Subject: RE: PATH To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi All, I have setup some menus in the past using the bash shell. Then I set the default shell in the passwd file to /usr/bin/menu. This has always worked fine under Linux. But under FreeBSD, the PATH doesn't seem to get read from the .profile file. What's different between the two systems? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Allen ____________________________________________________________________________ Allen D. Harpham, President | Voice: (402)462-4619 Computer Consultants of | Fax: (402)462-4670 Hastings, Inc. | E-mail: aharpham@nebland.cnweb.com 1126 N. Briggs Ave. | HTTP: http://www.cnweb.com/index.com Hastings, NE 68901-3713 | ____________________________________________ | Custom programming, Network | Design and Installation, | Telecommunications Consulting, | Web Hosting Services ____________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 19:11:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA11739 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 19:11:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA11725 Tue, 12 Dec 1995 19:11:12 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dk+@ua.net cc: mitayai@dreaming.org (Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe), jkh@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A call for DNS secondaries to server for .freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Dec 1995 03:00:00 +0200." Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 19:11:12 -0800 Message-ID: <11723.818824272@freefall.freebsd.org> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > in Ukraine (.ua), there isn't org.ua domain at all (not that we haven't > thought about it - "we" means domain administrators, incl. me as admin-c). > Alternatively, you can apply for freebsd.com.ua ;-) I think we've all pretty much decided that we should stick with subdomains of .org. Even one important missing freebsd.org. is enough to ruin the orthogonality of the scheme and hence defeat the entire purpose. > (btw, is FreeBSD Inc. an officially registered legal entity?) It is indeed. > should settle with different scheme. XX.ftp.freebsd.org could be good. I don't think so. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 20:10:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA18006 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 20:10:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA17967 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 20:09:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA10798 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 05:11:51 +0100 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 05:11:51 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199512130411.FAA10798@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: telnetd (ld.so faild: _encrypt_debug_mode_) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Any clues what I might have got messed up? I'm in the process of upgrading a Oct-31 current to 2.1.0R. The make world fails somewhere in the uucp info files. I did a make install anyway and got this after reboot. (maybe I had secure telnet pieces from internat.freebsd.org in my tree?) Script started on Wed Dec 13 05:04:57 1995 gil> telnet blues Trying 137.226.31.18... Connected to blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de. Escape character is '^]'. ld.so failed: Undefined symbol "_encrypt_debug_mode" in telnetd:telnetd Connection closed by foreign host. gil> exit Script done on Wed Dec 13 05:05:08 1995 rlogin works - thanks heaven :-) --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 22:16:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA06004 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 22:16:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from tetsuo.communique.net (Tetsuo.Communique.Net [204.27.64.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA05961 Tue, 12 Dec 1995 22:16:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from tetsuo.communique.net (Tetsuo.Communique.Net [204.27.64.10]) by tetsuo.communique.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA56768; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 00:15:33 -0600 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 00:15:24 -0600 (CST) From: Raul Zighelboim To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org cc: questions@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: loopback and multicast messed up on /etc/sysconfig ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I am not sure what happened here: I messed up my /etc/sysconfig file, so I imported another one. The original was in 2.1, while the imported one came from the previous 2.1-SNAP. Another difference that is probably important is that one machine was installed using a NE2000 card and the other using a 3COM ethernet card. The problem is in: # route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface ${hostname}" # route_loopback="${hostname} localhost" If I uncomment this line in sysconfig, the system will not boot. (attaching a monitor/keyboard to the pc will allowed me to continue the boot process by typing -C, but no multicast nor loopback oute will exist. Typing 'route add loopback system localhost' would just hang the system until I -C it. Same will hapend with similar line for multicast. How do I fix this ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raul Zighelboim e-mail: mango@communique.net Communique Inc. Tel: 504.527.6200 Technical Specialist Fax: 504.527.6030 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 12 23:57:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA22138 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 23:57:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA22002 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 23:55:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pallenby@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA03471; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:53:06 +0200 From: Paul Allenby Message-Id: <199512130753.JAA03471@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: SNMP for FreeBSD? To: SimsS@infi.net Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:53:05 +0200 (SAT) Cc: scrappy@hub.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199512121250.EAA10163@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Pavlov's Cat" at Dec 12, 95 07:50:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk We have modified the cmu snmpv2 code to run under FreeBSD. It accepts only snmpv1 requests. The agent also generates coldstart, linkup and linkdown traps. You can get it via ftp from internat.freebsd.org, in pub/FreeBSD.tools. > > > A couple of weeks ago somebody mentioned "cmu-snmp" which I found (I think) > in /incoming on freefall. > > With very little whacking I was able to get it built and put together a > couple of csh scripts that periodically scan a few remote servers (NT, if you > must know) and alert me in the even of an error on 'em. > > T'was truly a trivial exercise - about two hours total, and I don't have a > clue as to what I'm doing. ;-) > > As far as an snmpd on FreeBSD, I'm planning on looking at same in the near > future, so keep me posted if you discover any tips for doing so. > > : Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:50:31 -0500 (EST) > : From: "Marc G. Fournier" > : To: hackers@freebsd.org > : Subject: SNMP for FreeBSD? > > : > : Hi... > : > : A few questions... > : > : 1 - is there anything special I have to do to FreeBSD for > : snmp? > : 2 - is there an snmp package that works under FreeBSD? > : 3 - are there any good books on snmp? > : > : thanks for your time... > : > : > : Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting > : scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, > : soon to be: | | Information and > : scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc > : > : > -- > ...sjs... > > Steve Sims (SJS7) SimsS@Infi.Net > Systems Engineer, IPC Technologies, Inc. Virginia Beach, VA > "Everyone wants to save the Earth; > Nobody wants to help Mom do the dishes." ...P.J. O'Roarke > -- ******************************************************************************** P.D.Allenby Mikomtek, CSIR, RSA. e-mail: pallenby@mikom.csir.co.za voice : (012)8414085 ******************************************************************************** From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 00:38:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA23740 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 00:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA23735 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 00:38:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA02841 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 00:33:04 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA28484; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:21:07 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA12674; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:21:06 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA21128; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:03:42 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512130803.JAA21128@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: PATH To: aharpham@cnweb.com (Allen D. Harpham) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:03:41 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Allen D. Harpham" at Dec 12, 95 08:34:03 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Allen D. Harpham wrote: > > I have setup some menus in the past using the bash shell. Then I set > the default shell in the passwd file to /usr/bin/menu. > > This has always worked fine under Linux. But under FreeBSD, the PATH > doesn't seem to get read from the .profile file. What's different > between the two systems? $HOME/.profile is only being sucked in by /bin/sh when starting. So it's apparent that this would become a useless file for any login `shell' != /bin/sh (or bash, or ksh). You most likely didn't notice it's non-existing effect on Linux since the default PATH might be different anyway. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 02:44:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA01359 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 02:44:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA01288 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 02:43:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua id AA01605 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 13 Dec 1995 12:39:40 +0200 From: Eugene Polovnikov Message-Id: <199512131039.AA01605@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: bug or feature in kern/tty.c To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 12:39:37 +0200 (UKR) Cc: yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (Yury Pshenychny), eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (Eugene Polovnikov) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I found strange thing in 2.1.0-RELEASE (and -current) in kern/tty.c. When carrier was lossed then ttymodem() set TS_ZOMBIE and clear TS_CONNECTED in tp->t_state. But TS_ZOMBIE is cleared only in ttioctl() TIOCSETA* when line is setted to ignore modem status and when line is closed. As result in ttymodem() after lossing carrier TS_CONNECTED is not setting whithout reopening line or changing c_cflag to CLOCAL, and if this line used for SLIP connection as result we have 'No route to host' error when trying output to this line after modem reconnected. Or is this bug in slattach ? slattach never set CLOCAL when it's working with modem control and without redial cmd. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 03:47:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA05130 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 03:47:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA05086 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 03:44:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA04339; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 12:39:08 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199512131139.MAA04339@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: meteor driver documentation To: james@miller.cs.uwm.edu (Jim Lowe) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 12:39:07 +0100 (MET) Cc: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512111637.KAA18548@miller.cs.uwm.edu> from "Jim Lowe" at Dec 11, 95 10:37:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have found that Philips Semiconductors has some data sheets on line. In particular, the SAA7116 used in the meteor card is documented at http://server1.pa.hodes.com/ps/acrobat/2044.pdf I believe it is a good idea to include the pointer in the sources of the meteor driver. A similar things should, in my opinion, be applied wherever possible for all pieces of code which deal with specific hardware. I haven't been able to find references for the 7191/7196, as the search utilities supplied by philips are mostly useless. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 05:35:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA09240 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 05:35:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA09213 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 05:34:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA06703 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:17:29 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 13 Dec 95 16:17:28 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.ru (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA00540; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:14:38 +0300 (MSK) To: Eugene Polovnikov , hackers@freebsd.org Cc: Yury Pshenychny References: <199512131039.AA01605@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua> In-Reply-To: <199512131039.AA01605@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua>; from Eugene Polovnikov at Wed, 13 Dec 1995 12:39:37 +0200 (UKR) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:14:38 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.41 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c Lines: 26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199512131039.AA01605@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua> Eugene Polovnikov writes: >I found strange thing in 2.1.0-RELEASE (and -current) in kern/tty.c. >When carrier was lossed then ttymodem() set TS_ZOMBIE and clear >TS_CONNECTED in tp->t_state. But TS_ZOMBIE is cleared only in ttioctl() >TIOCSETA* when line is setted to ignore modem status and when line is closed. >As result in ttymodem() after lossing carrier TS_CONNECTED is not setting >whithout reopening line or changing c_cflag to CLOCAL, and if this line >used for SLIP connection as result we have 'No route to host' error >when trying output to this line after modem reconnected. It is right per POSIX. Why you need to output anything to closed line? >Or is this bug in slattach ? slattach never set CLOCAL when it's working >with modem control and without redial cmd. I am not shure, what result you expect... If you need to reestablish connection, use redial cmd. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 06:05:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA11192 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:05:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA11169 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA05979 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:05:16 -0600 Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Wed, 13 Dec 95 08:05 CST Received: by mars.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Wed, 13 Dec 95 08:05 CST Message-Id: Subject: WFW and NetWare printing To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:05:14 -0600 (CST) From: "Lars Jonas Olsson" Cc: jonas@mcs.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Now that FreeBSD has NetWare support is there any way to have a printer attached to a FreeBSD machine be both a Windows for Workgroup (Samba) and NetWare printer? (I have NetWare 4.1 and should sometime soon get the free NetWare/IP.) If this doesn't work, is there any other way to have a printer shared between WFW and NetWare? Without buying anything? I have some UnixWare 2.0.3 machines that might be the missing link. Jonas From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 06:16:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA13460 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:16:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13440 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:16:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA23057; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 01:10:41 +1100 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 01:10:41 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512131410.BAA23057@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c Cc: yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >I found strange thing in 2.1.0-RELEASE (and -current) in kern/tty.c. >When carrier was lossed then ttymodem() set TS_ZOMBIE and clear >TS_CONNECTED in tp->t_state. But TS_ZOMBIE is cleared only in ttioctl() >TIOCSETA* when line is setted to ignore modem status and when line is closed. POSIX says that (what I call the) zombie state remains until the line is closed. Clearing it when CLOCAL is raised is a special hack that helped very old (1.1.5) versions of slattach and perhaps other broken programs work right. >As result in ttymodem() after lossing carrier TS_CONNECTED is not setting >whithout reopening line or changing c_cflag to CLOCAL, and if this line >used for SLIP connection as result we have 'No route to host' error >when trying output to this line after modem reconnected. >Or is this bug in slattach ? slattach never set CLOCAL when it's working >with modem control and without redial cmd. Yes. slattach goes to a lot of trouble to close the line, but only for the redial_command case. The !redial_command case in sighup_handler() can't work for real SIGHUPs. In 1.1.5, the only way to close the line was to exit from the process. slattach goes to a lot of trouble to make itself the controlling process so that SIGHUPs get sent to it. The line can't be fully closed until it stops being a controlling terminal, and in 1.1.5 there was no way to stop it being a controlling terminal except to exit! :-( 2.x is better (TIOCSCTTY releases the previous control terminal, if any). Anyway, slattach still exits (in daemon() in aquire_line()) for the redial_command case. According to the man page, slattach aborts if it receives a SIGHUP in the !redial_command case. This got broken when complications to get rid of the controlling terminal were introduced. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 06:17:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA13591 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:17:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13483 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:16:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua id AA02392 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:13:43 +0200 From: Eugene Polovnikov Message-Id: <199512131413.AA02392@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:13:40 +0200 (UKR) Cc: eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@freebsd.org, yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=" at Dec 13, 95 04:14:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In message <199512131039.AA01605@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua> Eugene > Polovnikov writes: > > >I found strange thing in 2.1.0-RELEASE (and -current) in kern/tty.c. > >When carrier was lossed then ttymodem() set TS_ZOMBIE and clear > >TS_CONNECTED in tp->t_state. But TS_ZOMBIE is cleared only in ttioctl() > >TIOCSETA* when line is setted to ignore modem status and when line is closed. > >As result in ttymodem() after lossing carrier TS_CONNECTED is not setting > >whithout reopening line or changing c_cflag to CLOCAL, and if this line > >used for SLIP connection as result we have 'No route to host' error > >when trying output to this line after modem reconnected. > > It is right per POSIX. > Why you need to output anything to closed line? Why i can not output to line after reestablish connection ? > > >Or is this bug in slattach ? slattach never set CLOCAL when it's working > >with modem control and without redial cmd. > > I am not shure, what result you expect... > If you need to reestablish connection, use redial cmd. Im my case redial cmd no usable: slattach work with LL dumb short range modem, with full modem control but whithout commands. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 07:21:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20644 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:21:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA20637 Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:21:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA09355; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:21:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:21:45 -0500 From: "Garrett A. Wollman" Message-Id: <9512131521.AA09355@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Raul Zighelboim Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, questions@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: loopback and multicast messed up on /etc/sysconfig ? In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk < said: > The problem is in: > # route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface ${hostname}" > # route_loopback="${hostname} localhost" > If I uncomment this line in sysconfig, the system will not boot. This line is broken. It /never/ correct to refer to hosts by this early in the configuration process, and more importantly, host names DO NOT NAME INTERFACES. The correct way to set this up is as follows: route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface IP.OF.DESIRED.IFACE" Furthermore, the `route_loopback' bit is completely bogus, and should not be present at all. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 08:11:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA26626 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:11:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA26445 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:09:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.12]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA17697 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:48:36 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA09663; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:48:30 +0100 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:48:30 +0100 Message-Id: <199512131548.QAA09663@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: fts(3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk from the man page: The argument compar() specifies a user-defined function which may be used to order the traversal of the hierarchy. It takes two pointers to point- ers to FTSENT structures as arguments and should return a negative value, zero, or a positive value to indicate if the file referenced by its first argument comes before, in any order with respect to, or after, the file referenced by its second argument. The fts_accpath, fts_path and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ fts_pathlen fields of the FTSENT structures may never be used in this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ comparison. If the fts_info field is set to FTS_NS or FTS_NSOK, the ^^^^^^^^^^ fts_statp field may not either. Why should I not use this fields? I need fts_accpath for a find(1) with builtin sort. Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 08:49:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA01325 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:49:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01314 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tony@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA25533 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:48:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:48:49 -0700 From: Tony Jones Message-Id: <199512131648.JAA25533@seagull.rtd.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Wiring down scsi id's Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I asked this on -questions and didn't get any replies. Can anyone give me some suggestions ? Running 2.0.5 on a ASUS P/I-P55TP4XE with NCR SCSI. thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------- I'm obviously missing something fairly major here, can anyone enlighten me. Have 3 scsi discs id0 quantum (Win95) id1 dec (FreeBSD root/usr/var) id2 dec (FreeBSD src/home) Booteasy installed on id0 and id1. Occasionally I'll remove the quantum, which causes the dynamic sdN allocation. to change (dec drives become sd0 and sd1) which causes fsck(fstab) problems. So, I decided I'd fix down the scsi id's config kernel root on sd0 disk sd0 at scbus0 target 1 disc sd1 at scbus0 target 2 I _thought_ this would do the trick. Works OK if the Quantum is removed/powered off. If I add the Quantum back in ... System boots with the Quantum in place, assigns id0 to sd2, id1 to sd0 and id2 to sd1. Then it sets root device to *sd1* and barfs trying to mount root as sd1a. Seems to be getting sd1 from the fact that I'm booting off id1. So, I switched tack a little config kernel root on sd1 disk sd1 at scbus0 target 1 disc sd2 at scbus0 target 2 System boots with the Quantum in place, assigns id0 to sd3, id1 to sd1 and id2 to sd2. Works. If I remove the Quantum, system boots, assigns id1 to sd1, id2 to sd2, get the same problem, tries to mount root off *sd0*. I'm getting the feeling that the root disc assignment is being affected by the bios' C: D: scsi assignment, and that my 'config kernel root on XXX' line is being ignored. Anyone have any ideas on what I am missing ? tony From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 08:52:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA01783 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:52:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemsgw.med.ge.com (gemsgw.med.ge.com [192.88.230.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01774 Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:52:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemed.med.ge.com (gemed.med.ge.com [3.7.12.4]) by gemsgw.med.ge.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA13000; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:51:00 -0600 Received: from sol.sol.med.ge.com (sol-gw [3.28.124.2]) by gemed.med.ge.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA17154; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:51:47 -0600 Received: from merak.med.ge.com by sol.sol.med.ge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28578; Wed, 13 Dec 95 10:52:41 CST From: laufen@sol.med.ge.com (Derek Laufenberg x7-4534) Received: by merak.med.ge.com (4.1/client-1.3) id AA04000; Wed, 13 Dec 95 10:52:39 CST Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 10:52:39 CST Message-Id: <9512131652.AA04000@merak.med.ge.com> To: wollman@lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: loopback and multicast messed up on /etc/sysconfig ? Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, questions@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > < said: > > > The problem is in: > > # route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface ${hostname}" > > # route_loopback="${hostname} localhost" > > > If I uncomment this line in sysconfig, the system will not boot. > > This line is broken. It /never/ correct to refer to hosts by this > early in the configuration process, and more importantly, host names > DO NOT NAME INTERFACES. > > The correct way to set this up is as follows: > > route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface IP.OF.DESIRED.IFACE" > > Furthermore, the `route_loopback' bit is completely bogus, and should > not be present at all. > > -GAWollman Thanks Garrett. This helps me alot. I've always thought this was wrong but didn't fully understand what was going on so I wasn't sure. It also explains why the system hangs (waits for timeout) when you enable NIS and try to boot. I've always just hacked the IP # into those lines in sysconfig but wondered if I was incorrect in doing so. What is the `route_loopback' trying to do anyhow? Derek Laufenberg laufen@sol.med.ge.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 08:57:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA02366 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:57:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02349 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:57:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Wed, 13 Dec 95 16:57 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA00743; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:42:33 +0100 Message-Id: <199512131642.RAA00743@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: New version of "Installing FreeBSD" now on freefall.FreeBSD.org To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:42:32 +0100 (MET) Cc: jack@cdrom.com (Jack Velte), greg@cdrom.com (Greg Lond), dunham@mpd.tandem.com (Jerry Dunham) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've just downloaded a new version of "Installing FreeBSD" to freefall.FreeBSD.org:/incoming/installing.tar.gz. Here's the README file from the archive: This archive contains the second draft of the book "Installing FreeBSD". It is copyrighted material and may be distributed only for review purposes. For review, however, it may be distributed freely. The files here are: shorttoc.ps Title matter, table of contents and preface, in PostScript. shortbook.ps The body of the book, in PostScript. shorttoc.ascii Title matter, table of contents and preface, in ASCII. shortbook.ascii The body of the book, in ASCII. The ASCII versions are intended for markup, not for review (see, Jordan, I do listen :-). You may find them difficult to interpret, since they are missing a whole lot of essential formatting information. *Please*, review the PostScript versions (print them out or look at them with ghostscript/ghostview), and mark up the ASCII versions if you wish. This book is supposed to be in publishable form, so flame me on anything that you think is inappropriate. Please return comments to me: Greg Lehey Phone: +49-6637-919123 Please don't include unnecessary information in your replies. My email is very expensive, and I don't want to end up getting complete marked-up copies of the ASCII versions in my mail. But don't spare detail where it's necessary. Thanks in advance Greg Lehey From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 09:11:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03966 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:11:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03958 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA01178; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:11:14 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199512131711.JAA01178@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: face to face To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:11:14 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512111205.EAA03986@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Dec 11, 95 04:05:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > You are right about e-mail not being the best medium for such a thing and > in fact is the reason why I recommend that you get a Matrox Meteor, vat-4.0a2, > the latest sound driver and have a serious face to face with Julian . > BTW: others can join in the vic/vat conference 8) . > > Who, knows maybe this will convince Julian to get a multimedia setup and > Jordan to get a Matrox Meteor PCI Video capture board. > (Jordan already has a GUS MAX). > Boy do you have inflated ideas about hte usability of the australian link.. not to mention the long set of small bandwith pipes that get to this part of the world.. :) > > Oh, about the symbol "8)" , real hackers smile they don't use "8)". > > Enjoy, > Amancio > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 09:27:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06184 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:27:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA06176 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:27:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Wed, 13 Dec 95 17:27 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA00867; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:07:56 +0100 Message-Id: <199512131707.SAA00867@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: running in 2 MB... To: jkh@freefall.freebsd.org (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:07:56 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <15606.818699917@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 11, 95 08:38:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > (I could recompile elsewhere, but would like to use the machine for > > some light-weight work.) > > Light-weight? Yeah, no kidding! Like what, exactly? Running a > shell, echoing arguments, that kinda thing? :-) :-) -- Begin war-story mode -- Some years ago, when I worked for Tandem, we shared offices with Tandem's Frankfurt network node. This machine ran well without too much difficulty with minimal memory, since it was mainly concerned with shuffling data buffers from one line to another. One day, the network manager came to me and said "we've just installed the latest and greatest version of Guardian on \NCEURO [the network machine], and I can't get it to boot. It just hangs." I went and had a look, and he was right. I took a dump and found that the machine had exactly 3 (three) pages (of 2048 bytes) of memory free after loading the kernel. Turned out that that was one too few: the system monitor (think: init) had paged its code space out before it had got around to enabling swapping. -- End war-story mode -- I think there are probably quite a few situations where this little memory would still work. I don't think I'd want to use it as an X workstation, though. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 09:41:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA07683 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA07657 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:40:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua id AA03545 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:38:14 +0200 From: Yury Pshenychny Message-Id: <199512131738.AA03545@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:38:11 +0200 (UKR) Cc: eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua In-Reply-To: <199512131410.BAA23057@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Dec 14, 95 01:10:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans wrote: > [skip] >According to the man page, slattach aborts if it receives a SIGHUP in the Im 3 times reread manuals on slattach, but not found this words. >!redial_command case. This got broken when complications to get rid of >the controlling terminal were introduced. Oh why, my God, why work on 'toward POSIX compliance' of FreeBSD broke old good slattach? > >Bruce > -- ŕŇÉĘ đŰĹÎÉŢÎŮĘ yura@zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 09:57:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA09637 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA09632 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Wed, 13 Dec 95 17:57 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA01254 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:45:56 +0100 Message-Id: <199512131745.SAA01254@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: samaphore remains To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:45:39 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199512061915.MAA01689@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Dec 6, 95 12:15:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > >> Currently I'm using FreeBSD-R2.1.0-RELEASE on GATEWAY 2000 P5-90. >> >> I found the trouble that if a program using semaphore died >> anbormally, the semaphore which was created remains on kernel. >> I think it should be released by kernel's exit() function. >> >> Although one of the UNIX implementation calls semexit() routine from >> exit(), FreeBSD doesn't call semexit() from anywhere. >> Is there any reason for this? >> >> >> I tried to fix the exit() as follows and it seems working well. >> >> ------------- cut here --------------- >> *** kern_exit.c Tue May 30 17:05:25 1995 >> --- kern_exit.c.new Wed Dec 6 15:12:28 1995 >> *************** >> *** 130,135 **** >> --- 130,139 ---- >> */ >> fdfree(p); >> >> + #ifdef SYSVSEM >> + semexit(p); >> + #endif >> + >> /* The next two chunks should probably be moved to vmspace_exit. */ >> vm = p->p_vmspace; >> #ifdef SYSVSHM >> ------------- cut here --------------- >> >> >> -- >> Mihoko Tanaka >> > > This looks exactly right. That's a matter of definition. In System V, by default the semaphore remains beyond the death of the process. See "The Magic Garden Explained", pp 541 et seq., for an explanation which even makes this apparent nonsense make sense. The correct behaviour is to only reset the semaphore if the SEM_UNDO flag is set. I can't see any reason to ever have it not set, but maybe some broken System V software relies on it... Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 10:18:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11582 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11577 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA30899; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 05:13:04 +1100 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 05:13:04 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512131813.FAA30899@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c Cc: eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>According to the man page, slattach aborts if it receives a SIGHUP in the > Im 3 times reread manuals on slattach, but not found this words. -l disable modem control (CLOCAL) and ignore carrier detect on the slip port. By default the redial-commmand is invoked upon carrier drop and slattach aborts if no redial-commmand ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is specified. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>!redial_command case. This got broken when complications to get rid of >>the controlling terminal were introduced. > > Oh why, my God, why work on 'toward POSIX compliance' of FreeBSD >broke old good slattach? `towards a secure system'. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 10:22:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11973 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:22:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11968 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:22:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA03411; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:21:13 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199512131821.LAA03411@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: WFW and NetWare printing To: jonas@mcs.com (Lars Jonas Olsson) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:21:13 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jonas@mcs.net In-Reply-To: from "Lars Jonas Olsson" at Dec 13, 95 08:05:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Now that FreeBSD has NetWare support is there any way to have a > printer attached to a FreeBSD machine be both a Windows > for Workgroup (Samba) and NetWare printer? (I have NetWare 4.1 > and should sometime soon get the free NetWare/IP.) > If this doesn't work, is there any other way to have a printer > shared between WFW and NetWare? Without buying anything? I have > some UnixWare 2.0.3 machines that might be the missing link. FreeBSD has IPX. FreeBSD does not have "NetWare support". The NetWare print porotocol is bogus anyway. There is no "end of job" notification; instead, the rprinter protocol uses line silence to detect the end of a job. This is all very timing dependent unless you rigidly enforce timing on a scale similar to that in Native NetWare. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 10:31:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA12606 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:31:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA12601 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:31:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA03398; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:18:46 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199512131818.LAA03398@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:18:46 -0700 (MST) Cc: eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua In-Reply-To: <199512131410.BAA23057@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Dec 14, 95 01:10:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >I found strange thing in 2.1.0-RELEASE (and -current) in kern/tty.c. > >When carrier was lossed then ttymodem() set TS_ZOMBIE and clear > >TS_CONNECTED in tp->t_state. But TS_ZOMBIE is cleared only in ttioctl() > >TIOCSETA* when line is setted to ignore modem status and when line is closed. > > POSIX says that (what I call the) zombie state remains until the line is > closed. Clearing it when CLOCAL is raised is a special hack that helped > very old (1.1.5) versions of slattach and perhaps other broken programs > work right. FYI: Of the 120 or so UNIX systems I ported TERM to while I was at Century Software, only SCO Xenix 2.3.0 behaved this way, and they fixed it in 2.3.1 after we reported the bug. Consider a program that splits the channel or uses seperate processes, or establishes the lock file before the open and frees it after the close. In the first couple of cases, you are talking about restarting the child processes. In the last case, you are talking about potentially contending for the lock yet again. Or consider attempting a redial on a Fax number. The outgoing modem mode by default is for talking with other modems. So you have to set the mode after the open because a close causes the on-to-off DTR transition that causes the modem to set. Hell, consider that any attempt to reestablish a connection will result in having to wait for the modem to reset itself. The problems are endless. The correct mechanisms for detecting on-to-off DCD transition are: 1) Make the serial line your controlling tty so that if -CLOCAL is set (like it should be), then on-to-off DCD will send you a SIGHUP. 2) Use "poll" or "select" to examine the tty for exceptional conditions. 3) Do an ioctl() the device at intervals after a connection is established (using an alarm or itimer if necessary) to get the DCD state. Returning 0 (or EOF) on reads is a silly thing to do. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 11:14:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA15375 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:14:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15364 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:14:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id NAA10985; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:13:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:13:54 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199512131913.NAA10985@plains.nodak.edu> To: SimsS@Infi.Net, hackers@freebsd.org, scrappy@hub.org Subject: Re: SNMP for FreeBSD? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk there is some cmu snmp tar files in the xperimnt/xperimnt.tgz. but the whole thing should be re-written to take avantage of the BSD builtin sysctl features to set and get information. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 11:26:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA16146 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from sagi.ucv.edu.ve (root@[150.185.84.230]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16134 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:26:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from opereira@localhost) by sagi.ucv.edu.ve (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA02773; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 05:34:05 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 05:34:04 -0400 From: Orlando Pereira Subject: Suscripcion...:)) To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Friends.. Please, Can you suscribe me in the list, please!! :) Thanks..!! :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 11:34:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA16905 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:34:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16606 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:31:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA03133; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:31:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199512131931.LAA03133@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: face to face In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:11:14 PST." <199512131711.JAA01178@ref.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:31:03 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Boy, I am glad that you made alright and are back reading e-mail ... About the multimedia setup, I thought that maybe you would come back and try to start your business over here . Thinking about it , it seems probable that you just want to stay down there and work ... Cheers, Amancio >>> Julian Elischer said: > > > > You are right about e-mail not being the best medium for such a thing and > > in fact is the reason why I recommend that you get a Matrox Meteor, vat-4. 0a2, > > the latest sound driver and have a serious face to face with Julian . > > BTW: others can join in the vic/vat conference 8) . > > > > Who, knows maybe this will convince Julian to get a multimedia setup and > > Jordan to get a Matrox Meteor PCI Video capture board. > > (Jordan already has a GUS MAX). > > > Boy do you have inflated ideas about hte usability of the australian > link.. not to mention the long set of small bandwith pipes that get > to this part of the world.. :) > > > > > Oh, about the symbol "8)" , real hackers smile they don't use "8)". > > > > Enjoy, > > Amancio > > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 12:21:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA21356 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 12:21:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21306 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 12:21:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA28533 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:04:08 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 13 Dec 95 23:04:07 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.ru (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA00533; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:03:12 +0300 (MSK) To: Bruce Evans , Terry Lambert Cc: eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua References: <199512131818.LAA03398@phaeton.artisoft.com> In-Reply-To: <199512131818.LAA03398@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert at Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:18:46 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:03:12 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.41 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c Lines: 33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In message <199512131818.LAA03398@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert writes: >> >I found strange thing in 2.1.0-RELEASE (and -current) in kern/tty.c. >> >When carrier was lossed then ttymodem() set TS_ZOMBIE and clear >> >TS_CONNECTED in tp->t_state. But TS_ZOMBIE is cleared only in ttioctl() >> >TIOCSETA* when line is setted to ignore modem status and when line is closed. >> >> POSIX says that (what I call the) zombie state remains until the line is >> closed. Clearing it when CLOCAL is raised is a special hack that helped >> very old (1.1.5) versions of slattach and perhaps other broken programs >> work right. >FYI: Of the 120 or so UNIX systems I ported TERM to while I was >at Century Software, only SCO Xenix 2.3.0 behaved this way, and they >fixed it in 2.3.1 after we reported the bug. BTW, it seems we talk about different things. As I understand the original problem, the question is: WHY SLATTACH NOT RECONNECTS WHEN CARRIER ESTABLISHED AGAIN (AUTOMATICALLY BY MODEM)? I.e. 1) driver needs to track carrier when in TS_ZOMBI and set TS_CONNECTED, clear TS_ZOMBI when carrier appearse on the line. 2) Slattach not need exit on SIGHUP but wait reasonable time until carrier will be up again. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 13:06:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA24910 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24896 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:06:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA26701 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:05:32 -0800 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199512132105.NAA26701@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: listen(2) semantics To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:05:32 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm confused about the "backlog" parameter of the listen(2) system call... I have a program which calls "listen(sock, 0)", specifying a maximum pending connection queue length of zero. Now here's what the man page says: The backlog parameter defines the maximum length the queue of pending connections may grow to. If a connection request arrives with the queue full the client may receive an error with an indication of ECONNREFUSED, or, if the underlying protocol supports retransmission, the request may be ignored so that retries may succeed. However, the observed behavior is this: the first connection succeeds and data is exchanged, the second connection "succeeds" but no data is read by the server (until the first connection exits), and the third connection fails via mode 2 described above. My question is how come the second connection doesn't fail via mode 2? Why does it say "connected to ..." when it's not really connected and the queue of pending connections supposedly has length zero? It seems like it ought to fail if someone is already connected. I.E, which of the following is the case and why :-) 1 I'm misinterpreting the man page 2 The man page is inaccurate 3 The implementation of listen(2) is wrong Example: $ telnet localhost 6006 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost.tribe.com. Escape character is '^]'. ^] telnet> ^Z Suspended $ telnet localhost 6006 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost.tribe.com. Escape character is '^]'. ^] telnet> ^Z Suspended $ telnet localhost 6006 Trying 127.0.0.1... <-- hangs, failing via mode 2 ^C Thanks, -Archie _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 13:36:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA27123 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26923 Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA08492; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:35:45 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA19186; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:35:44 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA22846; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:30:32 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512132130.WAA22846@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: loopback and multicast messed up on /etc/sysconfig ? To: mango@communique.net (Raul Zighelboim) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:30:32 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, questions@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Raul Zighelboim" at Dec 13, 95 00:15:24 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Raul Zighelboim wrote: > > # route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface ${hostname}" > # route_loopback="${hostname} localhost" > > If I uncomment this line in sysconfig, the system will not boot. > (attaching a monitor/keyboard to the pc will allowed me to continue the > boot process by typing -C, but no multicast nor loopback oute will > exist. Are you using /etc/resolv.conf? Does your nameserver respond to the reverse query for 224.0.0.0? Did you wait 45 seconds for the DNS request timing out? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 13:55:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA28270 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:55:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28241 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:54:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA08964; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:54:09 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA19289; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:54:08 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA23296; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:53:13 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512132153.WAA23296@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Wiring down scsi id's To: tony@rtd.com (Tony Jones) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:53:13 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512131648.JAA25533@seagull.rtd.com> from "Tony Jones" at Dec 13, 95 09:48:49 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Tony Jones wrote: > > I asked this on -questions and didn't get any replies. > Can anyone give me some suggestions ? > Have 3 scsi discs > id0 quantum (Win95) > id1 dec (FreeBSD root/usr/var) > id2 dec (FreeBSD src/home) > So, I decided I'd fix down the scsi id's > > config kernel root on sd0 > > disk sd0 at scbus0 target 1 > disc sd1 at scbus0 target 2 > > I _thought_ this would do the trick. > > Works OK if the Quantum is removed/powered off. > > If I add the Quantum back in ... System boots with the Quantum in place, > assigns id0 to sd2, id1 to sd0 and id2 to sd1. > Then it sets root device to *sd1* and barfs trying to mount root as > sd1a. Seems to be getting sd1 from the fact that I'm booting off > id1. Your problem is the BIOS, not FreeBSD. You have to boot from different devices at the boot: prompt, since they reflect the BIOS' idea, not FreeBSD's idea. (That's why there is the ``hd'' hint.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 14:03:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA28720 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:03:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA28702 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:02:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA05120 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Thu, 14 Dec 1995 00:49:29 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Thu, 14 Dec 95 00:49:28 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.ru (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA00854; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 00:48:28 +0300 (MSK) To: Bruce Evans , Terry Lambert Cc: eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua References: <199512131818.LAA03398@phaeton.artisoft.com> In-Reply-To: ; from =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= at Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:03:12 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 00:48:27 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.41 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c Lines: 41 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In message =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= writes: >In message <199512131818.LAA03398@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert > writes: >>> >I found strange thing in 2.1.0-RELEASE (and -current) in kern/tty.c. >>> >When carrier was lossed then ttymodem() set TS_ZOMBIE and clear >>> >TS_CONNECTED in tp->t_state. But TS_ZOMBIE is cleared only in ttioctl() >>> >TIOCSETA* when line is setted to ignore modem status and when line is closed. >>> >>> POSIX says that (what I call the) zombie state remains until the line is >>> closed. Clearing it when CLOCAL is raised is a special hack that helped >>> very old (1.1.5) versions of slattach and perhaps other broken programs >>> work right. >>FYI: Of the 120 or so UNIX systems I ported TERM to while I was >>at Century Software, only SCO Xenix 2.3.0 behaved this way, and they >>fixed it in 2.3.1 after we reported the bug. >BTW, it seems we talk about different things. As I understand the original >problem, the question is: WHY SLATTACH NOT RECONNECTS WHEN CARRIER >ESTABLISHED AGAIN (AUTOMATICALLY BY MODEM)? >I.e. >1) driver needs to track carrier when in TS_ZOMBI and >set TS_CONNECTED, clear TS_ZOMBI when carrier >appearse on the line. >2) Slattach not need exit on SIGHUP but wait reasonable time >until carrier will be up again. I mean of course that CLOCAL turned on, i.e. slattach only controls line and establish carrier on them, not other program. So partial question is: is it possible to fix sio to send SIGHUP to controlling terminal even when CLOCAL is set? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 14:09:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA29044 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29036 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:09:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA23386 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:15:12 -0700 From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199512132215.PAA23386@hemi.com> Subject: Anyway to get tape head past end of tape mark ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:15:12 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Uhm, I managed to get an end of tape mark to be written at the very beginning of one tape. I don't know much about tapes, but I think that means there are two filemarks written there now. Q: how can I recover from this ? The tape is a Wangtek 5150es (SCSI), attached to a FreeBSD 2.0.5 machine. I'm wondering several questions: 1. Is EOT really signified by two filemarks ? 2. Is this behaviour hardware or software ? That is, can software force the tape to go pass the EOT ? 3. If it's software, can I simply use the tape's MTFSF ioctl to skip over the two filemarks, or do I need to modify the driver ? 4. If it's hardware, can I cut a few feet at the beginning of the tape (hopefully past the EOT mark) and recover that way ? How much of the tape should I cut ? Can I maybe do a 'cat /dev/nrst0 > /dev/null' to force the tape to get to the EOT, eject without rewinding, then cut just past that ? Thanks in advance for any help, -Ade Barkah -------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - www: -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 14:12:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA29271 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29264 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:12:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA00535; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:05:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199512132205.PAA00535@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:05:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@lambert.org, eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=" at Dec 14, 95 00:48:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >1) driver needs to track carrier when in TS_ZOMBI and > >set TS_CONNECTED, clear TS_ZOMBI when carrier > >appearse on the line. > >2) Slattach not need exit on SIGHUP but wait reasonable time > >until carrier will be up again. > > I mean of course that CLOCAL turned on, i.e. slattach only > controls line and establish carrier on them, not other > program. So partial question is: is it possible to fix sio to send > SIGHUP to controlling terminal even when CLOCAL is set? That would be broke. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 14:26:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA00441 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:26:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from apollo.hq.nasa.gov (apollo.hq.nasa.gov [131.182.121.87]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00429 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:26:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from wirehead.hq.nasa.gov (wirehead.hq.nasa.gov [131.182.121.88]) by apollo.hq.nasa.gov (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA00159 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:28:00 GMT Received: from localhost (cshenton@localhost) by wirehead.hq.nasa.gov (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA09933 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:28:00 GMT Message-Id: <199512132228.WAA09933@wirehead.hq.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: wirehead.hq.nasa.gov: cshenton owned process doing -bs X-Authentication-Warning: wirehead.hq.nasa.gov: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Update on Java status? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:03:08 PST." <199512132203.OAA28729@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:27:59 -0500 From: Chris Shenton Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Just got out of a talk by Sun senior scientist John Gage on Java, and more generally the evolution of compting paradigms (mainframe, client-server, network-centric). Mind-blowing. I haven't seen any discussion on Java recently; can anyone give an update? Thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 15:46:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA06646 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from gandalf.me.ksu.edu (joed@gandalf.me.ksu.edu [129.130.41.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06635 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from joed@localhost) by gandalf.me.ksu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) id RAA07713 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:45:53 -0600 From: Joe Diehl Message-Id: <199512132345.RAA07713@gandalf.me.ksu.edu> Subject: Logging length of PPP connections... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:45:52 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm getting ready to sign up with a new Internet Service Provider, and was wondering if there was a way to find out how much my FreeBSD 2.1R machine is connected to my current ISP per month? I am running FreeBSD 2.1.0-Release, and the ppp program in dial-on-demand mode (note that I am not using pppd). There is no way for me to get connection statistics from my current ISP. Thank you in advance. :-) --- Joe Diehl Engineering Computing Center Kansas State University From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 15:58:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA07681 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA07661 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA17049 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:57:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199512132357.QAA17049@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 From: Steve Passe To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sysinstall & ftpd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:57:54 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I could easily be confused here, so I excuse me if I'm showing my ignorance... When I installed 2.1.0-RELEASE I had sysintall setup an anonymous ftp site for me. It created the dirs, etc., and a line in /etc/inetd.conf: ftp stream tcp nowait root /usr/libexec/ftpd ftpd -l I expected this to cause logging somewhere in /var/log/* but could find no traces of any ftp activity. Examining /etc/syslog.conf I couldn't find anything to cause ftp logging so I added: !ftpd *.* /var/log/ftpd to /etc/syslog.conf and did 'kill -HUP and ftp logging started to work. question #1: is it a 'bug' for inetd.conf to attempt to do ftpd logging while syslogd.conf doesn't seem to co-operate? stated another way, should sysinstall also modify syslogd.conf? question #2: did I do the right mod to syslogd.conf to start ftpd logging? -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 17:41:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA20339 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:41:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from tpone.telepac.pt (tpone.telepac.pt [194.65.3.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA20296 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:40:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.telepac.pt (webpac.telepac.pt [194.65.3.34]) by tpone.telepac.pt (8.6.12/1.0) with ESMTP id CAA20481 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 02:38:53 GMT Received: from c41397@alfa.ist.utl.pt (lis3_p2.telepac.pt [194.65.2.98]) by mail.telepac.pt (8.6.12/0.0) with SMTP id CAA05385 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 02:38:17 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 02:38:17 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.3-beta [p0] on FreeBSD Reply-To: c41397@alfa.ist.utl.pt From: Jose Gabriel J Marcelino To: Subject: RealAudio Server for FreeBSD Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 18:04:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA21642 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:04:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from tetsuo.communique.net (Tetsuo.Communique.Net [204.27.64.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21620 Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:04:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from tetsuo.communique.net (Tetsuo.Communique.Net [204.27.64.10]) by tetsuo.communique.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA50963; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 20:03:40 -0600 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 20:03:39 -0600 (CST) From: Raul Zighelboim To: "Garrett A. Wollman" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, questions@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: loopback and multicast messed up on /etc/sysconfig ? In-Reply-To: <9512131521.AA09355@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Why then this two lines are on the default /etc/sysconfig from 2.0.5 then. Someone forgot to remove them on distribution, or there was some change fro version 2.1.0 ? On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Garrett A. Wollman wrote: > < said: > > > The problem is in: > > # route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface ${hostname}" > > # route_loopback="${hostname} localhost" > > > If I uncomment this line in sysconfig, the system will not boot. > > This line is broken. It /never/ correct to refer to hosts by this > early in the configuration process, and more importantly, host names > DO NOT NAME INTERFACES. > > The correct way to set this up is as follows: > > route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface IP.OF.DESIRED.IFACE" > > Furthermore, the `route_loopback' bit is completely bogus, and should > not be present at all. > > -GAWollman > > -- > Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... > wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. > Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people > MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raul Zighelboim e-mail: mango@communique.net Communique Inc. Tel: 504.527.6200 Technical Specialist Fax: 504.527.6030 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 18:05:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA21727 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:05:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from maui.com (langfod@waena.mrtc.maui.com [199.4.33.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21722 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by maui.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA11786 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:08:41 -1000 From: David Langford Message-Id: <199512140208.QAA11786@ maui.com> Subject: CVSROOT and /usr/src/release To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:08:40 -1000 (HST) X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Stupid question of the day: What is the CVSROOT varirable for in the /usr/src/release/Makefile and what should it be set to normally? I am trying to roll an internal release thingy for myself and I am not using CVS but the make upchucks when it hits this line. Thanks, -- /--------------------------------------------------------------------\ | David Langford - Kihei, Maui, Hawaii - langfod@maui.com | | Maui Research and Technology Center -- Network Administrator | \--------------------------------------------------------------------/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 18:05:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA21769 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:05:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.205]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21763 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:05:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA20067; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:05:52 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:05:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" X-Sender: jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM To: Joe Diehl cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Logging length of PPP connections... In-Reply-To: <199512132345.RAA07713@gandalf.me.ksu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Joe Diehl wrote: > I'm getting ready to sign up with a new Internet Service Provider, and > was wondering if there was a way to find out how much my FreeBSD 2.1R > machine is connected to my current ISP per month? yes, the user mode ppp logs to /var/log/ppp.log grep the log for "Connect time" the number of seconds starts counting from the start of ppp negotiations and ends when carrier drops. you have to play with the "set debug" in /etc/ppp/ppp.conf to make sure that these messages are getting recorded. i use "set debug phase lcp chat lqm" so everything hits the log file here's a sample of my log 12-10 06:06:18 [8007] Connect time: 44737 secs 12-12 20:29:44 [16590] Connect time: 7083 secs 12-12 20:30:20 [16590] Connect time: 3 secs 12-13 06:33:09 [16590] Connect time: 36058 secs 12-13 13:15:14 [16590] Connect time: 18590 secs Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 19:23:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA25625 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:23:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25590 Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22125; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:23:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.6.4) id WAA14393; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:23:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:23:05 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@cappuccino.eng.umd.edu To: Joerg Wunsch cc: Raul Zighelboim , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, questions@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: loopback and multicast messed up on /etc/sysconfig ? In-Reply-To: <199512132130.WAA22846@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > As Raul Zighelboim wrote: > > > > # route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface ${hostname}" > > # route_loopback="${hostname} localhost" > > > > If I uncomment this line in sysconfig, the system will not boot. > > (attaching a monitor/keyboard to the pc will allowed me to continue the > > boot process by typing -C, but no multicast nor loopback oute will > > exist. > > Are you using /etc/resolv.conf? Does your nameserver respond to the > reverse query for 224.0.0.0? Did you wait 45 seconds for the DNS > request timing out? > I've been silently a victim of this for a long time. I have a private, 2 machine network, with one machine doing a nameserver, the other resolver. Could you suggest a line for the nameserver that would eliminate this? I'd really appreciate it. I _never_ realized it might be a multicast thing .... > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > ============================================================================ Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu -- I run FreeBSD on n3lxx and Journey2 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Dilbert Zone is Dilbert's new WWW home! The area features never-before-seen original sketches of Dilbert, a photo tour of Scott Adams' studio, Dilbert Trivia and memorabilia, high school photos and much more!: From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 20:52:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA02049 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 20:52:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from pm.cse.rmit.EDU.AU (pm.cse.rmit.EDU.AU [131.170.118.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA02007 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 20:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from phillip@localhost) by pm.cse.rmit.EDU.AU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA01388; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 15:52:31 +1100 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 15:52:31 +1100 Message-Id: <199512140452.PAA01388@pm.cse.rmit.EDU.AU> From: Phillip Musumeci To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Some possibly useful suggestions Reply-to: phillip@cse.rmit.edu.au Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I think FBSD2.1 has been quite a good release. Here are a few suggestions/comments about the FreeBSD-2.1 installation: 1) section 2.5.2 of INSTALL.TXT ------------------------------------------- Maybe we should have another special note saying that, if you are going to do your installation via ftp from a users account (and not ANONYMOUS ftp), then you should specify the userid and password by selecting the OPTIONS menu. I found I did not have this specified only *after* I had gone through entering all the setup information. 2) installation from a wangtek tape drive --------------------------------- I found that, even though my wangtek tape drive was correctly probed and recognised (after doing a "boot -c"), I did not seem to be able to tell the install procedure that I wanted to use /dev/rwt0. I am sorry but I didn't go back and check what was going on here. I don't think anything was broken --- I just couldn't see how to select rwt0 instead of whatever tape device the install system was trying to use. 3) file /sys/i386/conf/LINT ----------------------------------------------- The LINT file is where I go to see how to add lines to my config file. The current section for audio has a comment that appears incorrect to me e.g. # # Beware! The addresses specified below are also hard-coded in # i386/isa/sound/sound_config.h. If you change the values here, you # must also change the values in the include file. # When you look in file sound_config.h, you find that the author has carefully allowed us to override their defaults via an options statement. It would be good if the following example was added to LINT. ### ### Example of using a sound blaster at irq other than 7. ### Look in file i386/isa/sound/sound_config.h and observe that the default ### IRQ setting can be overriden by specifying SBC_IRQ e.g. ### #device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 10 drq 1 vector sbintr #options "SBC_IRQ=10" # we really mean irq=10 for sound blaster pro Thanks, phillip ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dr Phillip Musumeci __ /\ Postal Address: Telephone: / \/ \ Dept. of Computer Systems Engineering ++61 3 96605317(w1) / \ RMIT ++61 3 96605383(w2) / / GPO Box 2476V ++61 3 96605340(fax) \ __ / Melbourne VIC 3001. AUSTRALIA RMIT Building 87.2.15, `-' \*/ EMAIL: phillip@cse.rmit.edu.au 410 Elizabeth Street. . WWW: http://www.cse.rmit.edu.au/~rdspm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A good environment for the teaching of "modern" microprocessors? One where the students were conceived *before* the microprocessor. --pm From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 21:11:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA03939 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from suphys.physics.usyd.edu.au (dawes@suphys.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA03904 Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by suphys.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA27518; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:05:20 +1100 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199512140505.QAA27518@suphys.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: loopback and multicast messed up on /etc/sysconfig ? To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:05:19 +1100 (EST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, mango@communique.net, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, questions@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Dec 13, 95 10:23:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > >> As Raul Zighelboim wrote: >> > >> > # route_multicast="224.0.0.0 -netmask 0xf0000000 -interface ${hostname}" >> > # route_loopback="${hostname} localhost" >> > >> > If I uncomment this line in sysconfig, the system will not boot. >> > (attaching a monitor/keyboard to the pc will allowed me to continue the >> > boot process by typing -C, but no multicast nor loopback oute will >> > exist. >> >> Are you using /etc/resolv.conf? Does your nameserver respond to the >> reverse query for 224.0.0.0? Did you wait 45 seconds for the DNS >> request timing out? >> > >I've been silently a victim of this for a long time. I have a private, 2 >machine network, with one machine doing a nameserver, the other >resolver. Could you suggest a line for the nameserver that would >eliminate this? I'd really appreciate it. > >I _never_ realized it might be a multicast thing .... I've seen this too. I added something equivalent to localhost.rev for multicast. In named.boot I have: primary 0.0.224.IN-ADDR.ARPA multicast.rev and multicast.rev has the following in addition to the SOA, and NS records: 0 IN PTR multicast.. I haven't had any problems since doing this. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 21:51:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA07542 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:51:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA07531 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id GAA17560; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:51:33 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id GAA23452; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:51:33 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA26440; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:47:11 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512140547.GAA26440@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Anyway to get tape head past end of tape mark ? To: mbarkah@hemi.com (Ade Barkah) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:47:11 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512132215.PAA23386@hemi.com> from "Ade Barkah" at Dec 13, 95 03:15:12 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Ade Barkah wrote: > Uhm, I managed to get an end of tape mark to be written at the > very beginning of one tape. I don't know much about tapes, but > I think that means there are two filemarks written there now. > > Q: how can I recover from this ? You are not the first one. The only way to ``recover'' from this is to start writing a large file from the beginning of the tape, and the power-off the tape drive. =:-] -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 21:51:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA07553 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA07528 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id GAA17564 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:51:35 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id GAA23453 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:51:34 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA26491 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:50:24 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512140550.GAA26491@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Logging length of PPP connections... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:50:24 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512132345.RAA07713@gandalf.me.ksu.edu> from "Joe Diehl" at Dec 13, 95 05:45:52 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Joe Diehl wrote: > > I'm getting ready to sign up with a new Internet Service Provider, and > was wondering if there was a way to find out how much my FreeBSD 2.1R > machine is connected to my current ISP per month? > > I am running FreeBSD 2.1.0-Release, and the ppp program in dial-on-demand > mode (note that I am not using pppd). iijppp logs to /var/log/ppp.log. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 22:23:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA09490 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA09480 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:23:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id HAA18200; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 07:22:37 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA23638; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 07:22:36 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA26576; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:56:38 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512140556.GAA26576@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: loopback and multicast messed up on /etc/sysconfig ? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:56:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, mango@communique.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512140505.QAA27518@suphys.physics.usyd.edu.au> from "David Dawes" at Dec 14, 95 04:05:19 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As David Dawes wrote: > > >> Are you using /etc/resolv.conf? Does your nameserver respond to the > >> reverse query for 224.0.0.0? Did you wait 45 seconds for the DNS > >> request timing out? > >I _never_ realized it might be a multicast thing .... > > I've seen this too. I added something equivalent to > localhost.rev for multicast. I'm mirroring MCAST.NET. and 224.IN-ADDR.ARPA. :-} -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 13 23:28:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA13933 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:28:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA13880 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:27:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua id AA00688 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:24:06 +0200 From: Yury Pshenychny Message-Id: <199512140724.AA00688@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:24:04 +0200 (UKR) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199512131813.FAA30899@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Dec 14, 95 05:13:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans wrote: > > -l disable modem control (CLOCAL) and ignore carrier detect on > the slip port. By default the redial-commmand is invoked > upon carrier drop and slattach aborts if no redial-commmand > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > is specified. In any case, this not true. Slattach _not aborts_ if no redial-command is specified. We connected to Internet trough 4-wire LL and using FreeBSD as router since march 1995. We also using two modems configured for 'dumb mode leased line operations'. Modems in this mode redials and reconnects automatically. /etc/start_if.sl0 looks like this slattach -c -h -s 57600 -u /etc/chg_unit.elis /dev/cuaa2 no redial command, no -l options,if modem reconnects slattach not restarts, but continue working (until 2.1.0-RELEASE). You mean this bad? In 2.1.0 slattach not aborts if modem reconnects, but any output to this line disabled. You mean this good? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 00:01:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA15247 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 00:01:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from bastion1.bazis.nl (bastion1.bazis.nl [130.78.143.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA15225 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 00:01:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from bazu05.bazis.nl by bastion1.bazis.nl id aa14441; 14 Dec 95 9:01 WET From: Jouke Numan To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Subscribe to mailing list X-Mailer: ScoMail 1.0 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 9:00:56 +0100 (WET) Message-ID: <9512140900.aa19179@bazu05.bazis.nl> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk subscribe hackers +------------------------------------------------------+ | Signature of: Jouke Numan | | HISCOM bv, department of Systems Development | | Schipholweg 97, 2316 AX Leiden, the Netherlands | | +31-71-5256757 (office) +31-71-5216675 (FAX) | +------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 00:25:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA16324 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 00:25:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA16307 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 00:25:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA03694; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 19:15:16 +1100 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 19:15:16 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512140815.TAA03694@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c Cc: eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> -l disable modem control (CLOCAL) and ignore carrier detect on >> the slip port. By default the redial-commmand is invoked >> upon carrier drop and slattach aborts if no redial-commmand >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> is specified. >In any case, this not true. Slattach _not aborts_ if no redial-command is >specified. That's because it is broken. It worked in 1.1.5. It was easy to use wirh automatic redial, e.g., `while :; do slattach $slattachargs; done' >... >In 2.1.0 slattach not aborts if modem reconnects, but any output to this line >disabled. You mean this good? Try using a null redial command. This should work unless the DTR drop when the line is closed causes the modem to hang up. This can probably be worked around, e.g., by setting the DTR drop time to a low value (comcontrol /dev/ttyd0 1) or by dsiabling it (stty -hupcl ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:15:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.telepac.pt (webpac.telepac.pt [194.65.3.34]) by tpone.telepac.pt (8.6.12/1.0) with ESMTP id PAA19506 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 15:13:26 GMT Received: from c41397@alfa.ist.utl.pt (lis1_p9.telepac.pt [194.65.2.9]) by mail.telepac.pt (8.6.12/0.0) with SMTP id PAA05722 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 15:12:52 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 15:12:52 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.3-beta [p0] on FreeBSD Reply-To: c41397@alfa.ist.utl.pt From: Jose Gabriel J Marcelino To: Subject: Realaudio Server for FreeBSD Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Sorry for my last blank message, seems XFMail is not yet that stable.. :-( After some fussing around with the RealAudio people, they eventually told me last month there would be a port of the RealAudio server for FreeBSD machines. It was with great joy I found out at their web page that it was coming indeed for version 2.0... This is good news, since the old BSDi version didn't dumped core under the compatibility mode... Just though someone would be happy to know this :-) I know I am... Gabriel From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 06:18:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA03935 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from jhome.DIALix.COM (root@jhome.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA03923 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:18:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by jhome.DIALix.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA05904; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 22:18:20 +0800 (WST) From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199512141418.WAA05904@jhome.DIALix.COM> Subject: Re: Anyway to get tape head past end of tape mark ? To: mbarkah@hemi.com (Ade Barkah) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 22:18:19 +0800 (WST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512132215.PAA23386@hemi.com> from "Ade Barkah" at Dec 13, 95 03:15:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hello, > > Uhm, I managed to get an end of tape mark to be written at the > very beginning of one tape. I don't know much about tapes, but > I think that means there are two filemarks written there now. on some drives this is true. > > Q: how can I recover from this ? overwrite it.. > > The tape is a Wangtek 5150es (SCSI), attached to a FreeBSD 2.0.5 > machine. I'm wondering several questions: > > 1. Is EOT really signified by two filemarks ? well, QIC drives know EOD without the extra mark (from memory) > > 2. Is this behaviour hardware or software ? That is, can software > force the tape to go pass the EOT ? you should be able to 'read' past all the data and then start writing, as long as you never read the EOT marks. That SHOULD overwrite it.. > > 3. If it's software, can I simply use the tape's MTFSF ioctl to > skip over the two filemarks, or do I need to modify the driver ? > that should work, but some drives recognise 2 EOF marks as special and will only allow you to write past them and not read past them.. > 4. If it's hardware, can I cut a few feet at the beginning of the > tape (hopefully past the EOT mark) and recover that way ? How > much of the tape should I cut ? Can I maybe do a 'cat /dev/nrst0 > > /dev/null' to force the tape to get to the EOT, eject without > rewinding, then cut just past that ? > no idea if this would work is nthere DATA on the tape you are trying to read? > Thanks in advance for any help, > > -Ade Barkah > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - www: > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 07:31:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA08223 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 07:31:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netvision.net.il (mail.NetVision.net.il [194.90.1.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA08216 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 07:31:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from Burka.NetVision.net.il (gena@burka.NetVision.net.il [194.90.6.15]) by mail.netvision.net.il (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA12142; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 17:31:23 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.4-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 17:33:01 +0200 (IST) Reply-To: gena@NetVision.net.il X-Face: #v>4HN>#D_"[olq9y`HqTYkLVB89Xy|3')Vs9v58JQ*u-xEJVKY`xa.}E?z0RkLI/P&;BJmi0#u=W0).-Y'J4(dw{"54NhSG|YYZG@[)(`e! >jN#L!~qI5fE-JHS+< Organization: NetVision Ltd. From: Gennady Sorokopud To: Jose Gabriel J Marcelino Subject: RE: Realaudio Server for FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello! On 14-Dec-95 Jose Gabriel J Marcelino wrote: >>Hi! > >Sorry for my last blank message, seems XFMail is not yet that stable.. :-( You're still using beta, and it had very annoying bug, that caused unfinished message to be sent every 3 minutes :-) Get the release from ftp://burka.netvision.net.il/pub/xfmail/FreeBSD/ >After some fussing around with the RealAudio people, they eventually told me=20 >last month there would be a port of the RealAudio server for FreeBSD machines. >It was with great joy I found out at their web page that it was coming indeed >for version 2.0... This is good news, since the old BSDi version didn't dumped >core under the compatibility mode... > >Just though someone would be happy to know this :-) I know I am... > >Gabriel Best regards. -------- Gennady B. Sorokopud - System programmer at NetVision Israel. E-Mail: Gennady Sorokopud Homepage: http://www.netvision.net.il/~gena This message was sent at 12/14/95 17:33:02 by XF-Mail From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 09:39:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA19318 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:39:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.232.158]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19295 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:39:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nbc@localhost) by vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA00621 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 17:40:25 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 17:40:25 GMT From: Neil Brendan Clark Message-Id: <199512141740.RAA00621@vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ethernet card woes. Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Has anyone been successfull in using a Viglen EtherGen 2000A Dual Combo card? The card is recognised fine when probed, but seems to timeout when any attempt is made to use it. It is allegedly NE2000 compatible. Any help would be *much* appreciated... Neil From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 10:14:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA23852 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:14:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23840 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA00468 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 19:16:21 +0100 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 19:16:21 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199512141816.TAA00468@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: SUP: Invalid release current for collection base Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk My supserv runs fine but the client when suping from freefall reports SUP: Invalid release current for collection base for every sup target. Is something bent? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 10:33:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA25288 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:33:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA25280 Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:33:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199512141833.KAA25280@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUP: Invalid release current for collection base In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Dec 1995 19:16:21 +0100." <199512141816.TAA00468@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:33:52 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >My supserv runs fine but the client when suping from freefall >reports > >SUP: Invalid release current for collection base > >for every sup target. > >Is something bent? > >--Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de Your supfile is out of date. Look at: ftp://freefall.FreeBSD.org/pub/sup/*supfile* -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 10:55:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27232 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:55:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27225 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:55:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA04916; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 05:48:08 +1100 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 05:48:08 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512141848.FAA04916@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: bug or feature in kern/tty.c Cc: eugen@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yura@rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>I.e. >>1) driver needs to track carrier when in TS_ZOMBI and >>set TS_CONNECTED, clear TS_ZOMBI when carrier >>appearse on the line. The driver tracks carrier in TS_CARR_ON and the modem hardware state independent of CLOCAL and controlling terminalness. TS_CARR_ON can't be seen by normal processes but can be seen by snooping in kmem, e.g., by pstat. The driver is careful to NOT set TS_CONNECTED or clear TS_ZOMBIE when carrier rises, since that would defeat the whole point of TS_ZOMBIE, which is to stop the next call from being answered by the current session if the session leader somehow survives the SIGHUP. >>2) Slattach not need exit on SIGHUP but wait reasonable time >>until carrier will be up again. >I mean of course that CLOCAL turned on, i.e. slattach only >controls line and establish carrier on them, not other >program. So partial question is: is it possible to fix sio to send >SIGHUP to controlling terminal even when CLOCAL is set? No, for a SIGHUP to be sent, CLOCAL must be clear and the line must be a controlling process. slattach could simply poll for hangup like /usr/bin/sppp, e.g., assert(not_a_controlling_terminal_here); for (;;) { int mstate; sleep(2); if (ioctl(fd, TIOCMGET, &mstate) != 0 || !(mstate & TIOCM_CD)) break; } /* * XXX in !CLOCAL mode, we would have to close and reopen the tty * since POSIX says that the tty can't be used after the connection * is broken. This is inconvenient, and since we check carrier * directly, we don't need !CLOCAL mode. */ assert(in_CLOCAL_mode); goto start; except there is a race: the TIOCM_CD bit isn't sticky, so transient changes of it might be missed. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 16:23:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA04593 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA04575 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:22:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <29847-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:21:47 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id KAA23854 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:27:15 +1000 Received: by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id AAA03049; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:23:51 GMT Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:23:51 GMT From: Stephen Hocking Message-Id: <199512150023.AAA03049@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Realaudio Server for FreeBSD X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>After some fussing around with the RealAudio people, they eventually told me=20 >>last month there would be a port of the RealAudio server for FreeBSD machines. >>It was with great joy I found out at their web page that it was coming indeed >>for version 2.0... This is good news, since the old BSDi version didn't dumped >>core under the compatibility mode... >> >>Just though someone would be happy to know this :-) I know I am... >> Of course, NAS is functionally equivalent as far as I can work out, and is already available for a number of platforms including FreeBSD & Linux. Why bother? Stephen From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 17:03:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA07535 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 17:03:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA07530 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 17:03:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA24339; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 17:03:28 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 17:03:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Stephen Hocking cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Realaudio Server for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199512150023.AAA03049@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Dec 1995, Stephen Hocking wrote: > > >>After some fussing around with the RealAudio people, they eventually told me=20 > >>last month there would be a port of the RealAudio server for FreeBSD machines. > >>It was with great joy I found out at their web page that it was coming indeed > >>for version 2.0... This is good news, since the old BSDi version didn't dumped > >>core under the compatibility mode... > >> > >>Just though someone would be happy to know this :-) I know I am... > >> > > Of course, NAS is functionally equivalent as far as I can work out, > and is already available for a number of platforms including FreeBSD & Linux. > Why bother? Because a vast majority of the users out there accessing an ISP from a windows box could give a rats ass about NAS, but the poor ISP needs a RA server to feed them their audio. It's all about understanding the market. Note that he was referring to the RA Server, not a client, which isn't available under any unix accept IRIX as far as I know. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 18:37:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA14307 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 18:37:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from crash.ops.neosoft.com (root@crash.ops.NeoSoft.COM [206.109.4.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14298 Thu, 14 Dec 1995 18:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dbaker@localhost) by crash.ops.neosoft.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id UAA06843; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 20:38:15 -0600 From: Daniel Baker Message-Id: <199512150238.UAA06843@crash.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: FreeBSD-Current 12-14-95 gives me trouble To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, smace@neosoft.com Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 20:38:15 -0600 (CST) Cc: dbaker@crash.ops.neosoft.com (Daniel Baker) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This morning, I got the latest CTM deltas (at 9:00) and did a make world... Then I compiled a new kernel and rebooted... On bootup, everything went fine untill rc.local. xdm died on signal 11, then I got these error messages: Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: ahc_scsi_cmd0: more than 256 DMA segs Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: sd0: oops not queued Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: biodone: buffer already done Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: spec_getpages: I/O read error Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID 147 failure Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: ahc_scsi_cmd0: more than 256 DMA segs Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: sd0: oops not queued Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: biodone: buffer already done Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: spec_getpages: I/O read error Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID 146 failure I then got a virtual console getty to login, but whenever I tried, it logged me in, but then on trying to start tcsh, it said something like /usr/local/bin/tcsh:1 unexpected '(' (that's not exact) Then, I got a message saying Sendmail died. I did notice that my kernel booted up differntly, here's the "dmesg" from the logs: Dec 14 18:56:07 cocoa /kernel: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Thu Dec 14 18:53:46 CST 1995 Dec 14 18:56:07 cocoa /kernel: dbaker@cocoa.ops.neosoft.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/COCOA Dec 14 18:56:07 cocoa /kernel: CPU: Pentium (46.98-MHz 586-class CPU) Dec 14 18:56:07 cocoa /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x517 Stepping=7 Dec 14 18:56:07 cocoa /kernel: Features=0x1bf Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: real memory = 25165824 (24576K bytes) Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: avail memory = 22765568 (22232K bytes) Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: Probing for devices on the PCI bus: Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: chip0 rev 3 on pci0:0 Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: chip1 rev 3 on pci0:2 Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: vga0 rev 0 on pci0:6 Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:14 Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: ahc0: aic7870 Ultra Single Channel, SCSI Id=7, aic7870, 255 SCBs Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: (ahc0:0:0): "QUANTUM XP34301 1051" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 4106MB (8410200 512 byte sectors) Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: psm0 at 0x60-0x63 irq 12 on motherboard Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sio0: type 16550A Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: sio1: type 16550A Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: lpt0: Interrupt-driven port Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 flags 0x1 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: fdc0: NEC 72065B Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: ft0: Colorado tape Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: wd0: 516MB (1057280 sectors), 1120 cyls, 16 heads, 59 S/T, 512 B/S Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: matcd - Matsushita (Panasonic) CD-ROM Driver by FDIV, Version 1(26) 18-Oct-95 Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: matcdc0 at 0x230-0x233 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: matcdc0 Host interface type 0 Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: matcd0: [CR-5630.75] Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: npx0 on motherboard Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: sb0 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: sb0: Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: changing root device to sd0a Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: new masks: bio c0004840, tty c003109a, net c003109a Usually it loads the AHA and the sd0 drive near the wd0 drive and controller. Sorry if this is the wrong information, or not enough. I'd appreciate a response if anyone has any ideas, or if you want my kernel config file or anything. Thanks in advance, Daniel -- dbaker@neosoft.com - Daniel Baker - FTP & UseNet Admin - Neosoft, Inc. Any opinions expressed are mine. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 19:55:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA19261 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 19:55:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA19253 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 19:55:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA23773 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 19:55:44 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:49:54 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:49:53 -0600 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Schedule for updates of sup and mirrors. Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk There seems to be a problem in the distribution of updates. I know that the -current CTM code runs every 6 hours and almost always has some changes. What is the update schedule for the SUP distribution of cvs? If I get a copy from sup2.freebsd.org, how often will they be generating their update. The last change that I got is now 37 hours old. I consider this unreasonably slow. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 21:21:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA24097 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:21:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from msu.edu (ibm.cl.msu.edu [35.8.2.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA24092 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:21:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:21:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199512150521.VAA24092@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from grape.epix.net by msu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 15 Dec 95 00:19:17 EST To: hackers@freebsd.org From: byron@epix.net Subject: I NEED HELP!!! Reply-to: byron@epix.net Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk HI, I NEED HELP FAST!!! I INSTALLED LINUX AND NOW IT SAYS TO ME TO LOGIN??! WHAT BUGGERY IS THIS?? I CANT USE MY COMPUTER TO VIEW NUDIE GIFS!! SOMEONE HELP FAST....IM DYING OVER HERE! BYRON CHANDLER From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 21:42:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25330 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25325 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA00284 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 06:42:07 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA18632 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 15 Dec 1995 06:42:00 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA01854 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:11:25 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA00880 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 22:47:17 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199512142147.WAA00880@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: sio overruns on 2.0.5R To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 22:47:17 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there After I switched to a Asus P55TP4XE 90Mc I see things like sio0: 5 more silo overflows (total 7) The Asus supposedly has 16550A UARTs, of which I use one. On my previous MB, a 25Mc 486DX I used an AST/4 with 16550A chips without a single silo overflow. I also have the impression the UUCP datarate is now slower than before. This is a 14K4 modem BTW, on a 57600 baud line. Thoughts? _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 21:42:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25350 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:42:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25343 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA00291 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 06:42:16 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA18682 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 15 Dec 1995 06:42:12 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA01863 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:11:28 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA01370 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:51:03 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199512142251.XAA01370@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: growing X server processes To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:51:02 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Probably a FAQ but: why is XF_S3 so much more memory hungry then XF_SVGA? I used an old ET4000 before and it did not grow nearly as much as the S3 I use now./ There has also been much debate about using gnumalloc. Was that just for building the clients and/or for the server? TNX _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 21:44:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25482 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:44:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from id.slip.bcm.tmc.edu (root@RMURPHY.SLIP.BCM.TMC.EDU [128.249.250.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25476 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:44:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rich@localhost) by id.slip.bcm.tmc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA29950; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:44:30 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:44:30 -0600 Message-Id: <199512150544.XAA29950@id.slip.bcm.tmc.edu> From: Rich Murphey To: joed@engg.ksu.edu CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199512132345.RAA07713@gandalf.me.ksu.edu> (message from Joe Diehl on Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:45:52 -0600 (CST)) Subject: Re: Logging length of PPP connections... Reply-to: rich@lamprey.utmb.edu Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk |From: Joe Diehl |Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:45:52 -0600 (CST) | |I'm getting ready to sign up with a new Internet Service Provider, and |was wondering if there was a way to find out how much my FreeBSD 2.1R |machine is connected to my current ISP per month? | |I am running FreeBSD 2.1.0-Release, and the ppp program in dial-on-demand |mode (note that I am not using pppd). | |There is no way for me to get connection statistics from my current ISP. | |Thank you in advance. :-) If you are using 'ppp' (aka ijppp) for dial-on-demand use, the perl script below produces the following: - lists connections longer than some arbitrary threshold - daily usage totals - monthly averages - histogram of usage for each hour of the day Just feed /var/log/ppp.log as standard input to the script. Rich ================================================================ ./report.perl 09-03 10:46:28 3 09-03 20:36:19 -> 09-03 21:43:47 1.1 09-03 total: 6.49 hrs 19 conn. 09-04 02:00:49 -> 09-04 08:24:33 6.4 09-04 14:00:25 -> 09-04 17:18:06 3.3 09-04 total: 10.82 hrs 12 conn. ... Statistics for month 09: 727 connections of 33.36 min average duration. 404.15 hours total at 13.47 hours per day. 24.23 connections per day for 30 days. ... Statistics for connections started on a given hour of the day: Hour # Conn min. min/conn % of total min. 0 11 188 17 0 1 15 289 19 0 2 58 8683 149 19 3 32 2977 93 6 4 6 35 5 0 5 5 47 9 0 6 3 125 41 0 7 25 5408 216 12 8 32 630 19 1 9 53 2831 53 6 10 34 1786 52 4 11 31 829 26 1 12 26 894 34 2 13 31 1160 37 2 14 32 2438 76 5 15 31 2858 92 6 16 29 2359 81 5 17 33 2646 80 6 18 29 1645 56 3 19 5 79 15 0 20 1 67 67 0 21 5 2131 426 4 22 11 311 28 0 23 44 3075 69 7 During off peak hours 0-7: 295.94 total hours (40%) in 155 conn. During on peak hours 7-23: 429.11 total hours (59%) in 427 conn. ================================================================ #!/usr/bin/perl $time_threshold = 60; # connections longer than this (in min.) are listed. print "PPP log report\n\n"; print "start stop hours\n"; $day = ""; $month = ""; $days = 0; $day_total_time = 0; $day_connections = 0; $start = 0; $month = ""; $month_cnt = 0; $month_total_time = 0; $month_days = 1; $month_connections = 0; $last_month_days = 1; sub monthstat { print "\n\n"; print "Statistics for month $month:\n"; printf ("$month_connections connections of %10.2f min average duration.\n", $month_total_time / $month_connections); printf ("%10.2f hours total at %10.2f hours per day.\n", $month_total_time / 60., $month_total_time / (60. * $month_days)); printf ("%10.2f connections per day for $month_days days.\n", $month_connections / $month_days); print "\n\n"; } sub getln { $_ = <>; if ($_ =~ / (\d\d):(\d\d):(\d\d) /) { $hour = $1; $minute = $2; $second = $3; } if ($_ =~ /^(\d\d)-(\d\d) /) { if ($day ne $2) { if ($day ne "") { printf ("$month-$day total: %6.2f hrs $day_connections conn.\n", $day_total_time / 60.); } $day_total_time = 0; $day_connections = 0; $day = $2; $days ++; if ($month ne $1) { if ($month ne "") { &monthstat; } $month_total_time = 0; $last_month_days = $month_days; $month_days = 1; $month_connections = 0; $month = $1; $months ++; } else { $month_days = $2; } } } $_;} while (!eof (STDIN)) { &getln(); if (m/Phase: Network/) { $connections ++; $month_connections ++; $start = $second + 60 * ($minute + $hour * 60); $start_day = $day; $start_month = $month; $start_hour = $hour; $start_minute = $minute; $_ =~ / (\d\d:\d\d:\d\d) /; $start_time = $1; next; } elsif (m/(Phase: Dead|PPP Started.)/) { if ($start == 0) { next; } $end = $second + 60 * ($minute + $hour * 60); $duration = ($end - $start) / 60.; # minutes if ($start_day < $day) { $duration += ($day - $start_day) * 60 * 24.; } if ($start_month < $month) { $duration += ($day + $last_month_days - $start_day) * 60 * 24.; } if ($duration < 0) { print "bad duration: $duration\n"; $duration = 0; } $histogram[$start_hour] += $duration; $histogram_cnt[$start_hour] ++; $total_time += $duration; $day_total_time += $duration; $month_total_time += $duration; $day_connections ++; $month_connections ++; if ($duration > $time_threshold ) { printf("$start_month-$start_day $start_time -> $month-$day $hour:$minute:$second %.2g\n", $duration / 60.); } $start = 0; next; } } printf ("$month-$day total: %6.2g hrs %4g conn\n", $day_total_time / 60., $day_connections); $last_month_days = 31.; &monthstat; $total_time /= 60.; print "\nStatistics for connections started on a given hour of the day:\n"; print "\nHour # Conn min. min/conn % of total min.\n"; foreach $i (0..23) { if ($histogram_cnt[$i] > 0) { $avg = int ($histogram[$i] / $histogram_cnt[$i]); } else { $avg = 0; } $dur = int $histogram[$i]; $cent = int (100. * ($histogram[$i] / 60) / $total_time); print "$i $histogram_cnt[$i] $dur $avg $cent\n"; } $off_peak = 0; $off_peak_cnt = 0; foreach $i (0..7) { $off_peak += ($histogram[$i] / 60.); $off_peak_cnt += $histogram_cnt[$i]; } $on_peak = 0; $on_peak_cnt = 0; foreach $i (8..23) { $on_peak += ($histogram[$i] / 60.); $on_peak_cnt += $histogram_cnt[$i]; } print "\n"; printf ("During off peak hours 0-7: %6.2f total hours (%2d%%) in $off_peak_cnt conn.\n", $off_peak, 100. * $off_peak / $total_time); printf ("During on peak hours 7-23: %6.2f total hours (%2d%%) in $on_peak_cnt conn.\n", $on_peak, 100. * $on_peak / $total_time); print "\n"; exit 0; From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 23:16:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA00491 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:16:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA00486 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:16:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA01103; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:16:37 -0800 To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: byron@epix.net Subject: Re: I NEED HELP!!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:21:10 PST." <199512150521.VAA24092@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:16:37 -0800 Message-ID: <1101.819011797@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Let this be a lesson to everyone here - if you're going to log in from your local high school or junior college, don't forget to log out again! :-) Jordan > > HI, I NEED HELP FAST!!! I INSTALLED LINUX AND NOW IT SAYS TO ME TO LOGIN??! > > WHAT BUGGERY IS THIS?? I CANT USE MY COMPUTER TO VIEW NUDIE GIFS!! > > SOMEONE HELP FAST....IM DYING OVER HERE! > > BYRON CHANDLER From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 14 23:40:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA01651 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:40:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA01645 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:40:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA00211; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:12:37 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199512160742.SAA00211@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:12:36 +1030 (CST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199512142147.WAA00880@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Dec 14, 95 10:47:17 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Wilko Bulte stands accused of saying: > After I switched to a Asus P55TP4XE 90Mc I see things like > > sio0: 5 more silo overflows (total 7) > > The Asus supposedly has 16550A UARTs, of which I use one. > > On my previous MB, a 25Mc 486DX > I used an AST/4 with 16550A chips without a single silo overflow. > I also have the impression the UUCP datarate is now slower than > before. > > This is a 14K4 modem BTW, on a 57600 baud line. > > Thoughts? Hmm. I'm currently supporting an ISP that's having related problems; we dropped in a 2.1 kernel to cure their SCSI lockups, and they're currently seeing silo overflows leading to sio catatonia. Their ports are on a Boca16 though, and there is some evidence that the card may be overheating, HOWEVER having reduced the receive FIFO trigger threshold from 14 to 8, their system stays up for around 12 hours, where previously it was lucky to manage 2 or 3. My personal suspicion is still on the Boca card in this case, but they have swapped to a brand new one with similar results. > | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl My point in this case is to suggtest that you look at dropping the receive FIFO trigger level to 8 to begin with : in /sys/i386/isa/sio.c, sioattach(), take this fragment : com->hasfifo = TRUE; com->ftl_init = FIFO_TRIGGER_14; ===> outb(iobase + com_fifo, FIFO_ENABLE | FIFO_TRIGGER_8); com->tx_fifo_size = 16; kdc_sio[unit].kdc_description = "Serial port: National 16550A or compatible"; Insert the marked line, and change _14 to _8 in the line above it, and build a new kernel to test this. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 041-122-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "Who does BSD?" "We do Chucky, we do." [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 00:27:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA03586 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:27:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from kachina.jetcafe.org ([206.117.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03581 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:27:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([127.0.0.1]) by kachina.jetcafe.org (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA27222 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:27:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199512150827.AAA27222@kachina.jetcafe.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ARP problems? Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:27:48 -0800 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Can someone tell me why this happens: # tcpdump -e -f -l -n broadcast or icmp or arp or rarp ...stuff.. # arp -s 206.170.75.90 0:0:c0:58:b9:c7 pub 00:01:10.865938 0:0:c0:58:b9:c7 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff 0806 42: arp who-has 206.170.75.90 tell 206.170.75.90 Is this bogus, or a subtlety of the arp protocol I don't understand? BTW, the machine does not properly respond to arp requests, but I can't see the router to tell if there's something bogonic in the arp cache. ------ >>> Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org <<< Treat people as if they are what they ought to be, and you help them to become what they are capable of being. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 01:02:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA05959 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:02:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.232.158]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA05950 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:02:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nbc@localhost) by vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA01451 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:03:14 GMT Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:03:14 GMT From: Neil Brendan Clark Message-Id: <199512150903.JAA01451@vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Viglen ethernet card problem solved... Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The title says it all - after removing the card from my P75 and dumping it in an old 386 (with the net config of the Pentium) the damn thing worked perfectly. This is OK since the 386 was the intended recipient of the card anyway. Must be some sort of hardware problem there ;) Neil From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 01:02:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA06004 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:02:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from pcpsj.pfcs.com (harlan.clark.net [168.143.10.179]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA05983 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:02:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mumps.pfcs.com (mumps.pfcs.com [192.52.69.11]) by pcpsj.pfcs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA01347 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:02:25 -0500 Received: from localhost by mumps.pfcs.com with SMTP id AA11079 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:02:23 -0500 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Strange arplookup() message Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:02:22 -0500 Message-Id: <11077.819018142@mumps.pfcs.com> From: Harlan Stenn Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At one site I know they get console messages about once every hour or so from each of 4 FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE (as of about 5 months ago) machines: arplookup 0.0.0.204 failed: host is not on local network These messages are coming from @line 452 of if_ether.c, and (obviously) itaddr.s_addr == myaddr.s_addr (I put in a debug statement, and sure enough, the IP address of the machine pops out). Rebooting doesn't help. "arp -a" doesn't list 0.0.0.204 . Why are we getting these messages? More importantly, how can I make the message disappear (besides doing something stupid to if_ether.c)? Thanks... H From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 01:21:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA06686 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:21:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA06678 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:21:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA24809 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:21:19 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA15522 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:21:19 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA00742 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:15:22 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512150915.KAA00742@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: growing X server processes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:15:21 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512142251.XAA01370@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Dec 14, 95 11:51:02 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Wilko Bulte wrote: > > Probably a FAQ but: why is XF_S3 so much more memory hungry then > XF_SVGA? I used an old ET4000 before and it did not grow nearly as > much as the S3 I use now./ > > There has also been much debate about using gnumalloc. Was that just for > building the clients and/or for the server? Mainly for the server. I believe you're still @ 2.0.5 and XFree86 3.1.1. The S3 server was known to eat up mucho memory, and that's what has finally caused the debate (and perhaps triggered phkmalloc :). XFree86 3.1.2 uses gnumalloc by default, and XFree86 is moving towards their own malloc for the server (it's already in the latest beta, and it seems to work fine). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 01:26:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA06945 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:26:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA06722 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:21:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA24813; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:21:21 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA15523; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:21:20 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA00756; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:16:19 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512150916.KAA00756@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: I NEED HELP!!! To: byron@epix.net Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:16:18 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512150521.VAA24092@freefall.freebsd.org> from "byron@epix.net" at Dec 14, 95 09:21:10 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As byron@epix.net wrote: > > > HI, I NEED HELP FAST!!! I INSTALLED LINUX AND NOW IT SAYS TO ME TO LOGIN??! ^^^^^ So why not ask on a Linux list or in a Linux newsgroup? Hey, get a beginner's book about Unix! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 01:41:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA07862 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:41:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA07818 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:40:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA02977 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:42:50 +0100 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:42:50 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199512150942.KAA02977@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: mrouting/multicast Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Is there a simple way to test multicasting? I'm trying to get a vat connection going on my local ethernet but one machine (the one running mrouted) doesn't see the local machine's session. Both machines are running 2.1.0R kernels. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 01:45:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA08127 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from yokogawa.co.jp (yhqfm.yokogawa.co.jp [202.33.29.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA08085 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:45:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc.yokogawa.co.jp ([133.140.4.100]) by yokogawa.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb3/3.3Wb4-firewall:08/09/94) with SMTP id SAA09747 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:45:19 +0900 Received: from leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp by sjc.yokogawa.co.jp (4.1/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA-R/GW) id AA24856; Fri, 15 Dec 95 18:45:18 JST Received: from cabbage by leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.8/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA/pa) id AA03510; Fri, 15 Dec 95 18:45:11 +0900 Received: by cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.6/3.3Wb) id AA18887; Fri, 15 Dec 95 18:45:34 +0900 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 18:45:34 +0900 From: Mihoko Tanaka Message-Id: <9512150945.AA18887@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SMC EtherPower doesn't work. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello all, I use FreeBSD-2.1.0R on HP Vectra VL590. and I try to install the network card 'SMC EtherPowerPCI BT'. but it could not be recognized. The error message is: pci_map_port failed: device's iorange 0xff80-0xffff is incompatible with its bridge's range 0x0-0xffff But the bridge's iorange '0x0-0xffff' includes the device's iorange '0xff80-0xffff'. I think the device's iorange is right. Is it a bug of pci driver ? I change the driver source code by following and it is working well. In /usr/src/sys/pci/pci.c: int pci_map_port (pcici_t tag, u_long reg, u_short* pa) { [...] iosize = -(data & PCI_MAP_IO_ADDRESS_MASK); if (ioaddr < pcicb->pcicb_iobase || ioaddr + iosize > pcicb->pcicb_iolimit) { ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ it should be (ioaddr + iosize - 1) printf ("pci_map_port failed: device's iorange 0x%x-0x%x " "is incompatible with its bridge's range 0x%x-0x%x\n", (unsigned) ioaddr, (unsigned) ioaddr + iosize - 1, (unsigned) pcicb->pcicb_iobase, (unsigned) pcicb->pcicb_iolimit); return (0); } [...] } -------------------- cut here ----------------------------------------- --- pci.c Mon Oct 9 15:35:59 1995 +++ pci.c.new Thu Dec 14 12:09:19 1995 @@ -922,7 +922,7 @@ }; iosize = -(data & PCI_MAP_IO_ADDRESS_MASK); if (ioaddr < pcicb->pcicb_iobase - || ioaddr + iosize > pcicb->pcicb_iolimit) { + || (ioaddr + iosize -1) > pcicb->pcicb_iolimit) { printf ("pci_map_port failed: device's iorange 0x%x-0x%x " "is incompatible with its bridge's range 0x%x-0x%x\n", (unsigned) ioaddr, (unsigned) ioaddr + iosize - 1, -------------------- cut here ----------------------------------------- -- Mihoko Tanaka From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 02:09:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA09706 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA09701 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:09:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA00725; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:03:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199512151003.CAA00725@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: growing X server processes In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:15:21 +0100." <199512150915.KAA00742@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:03:58 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dumb question, If XFree86 is moving to their on efficient malloc shouldn't we be doing the same ? 8) Enjoy, Amancio >>> J Wunsch said: > As Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > Probably a FAQ but: why is XF_S3 so much more memory hungry then > > XF_SVGA? I used an old ET4000 before and it did not grow nearly as > > much as the S3 I use now./ > > > > There has also been much debate about using gnumalloc. Was that just for > > building the clients and/or for the server? > > Mainly for the server. > > I believe you're still @ 2.0.5 and XFree86 3.1.1. The S3 server was > known to eat up mucho memory, and that's what has finally caused the > debate (and perhaps triggered phkmalloc :). > > XFree86 3.1.2 uses gnumalloc by default, and XFree86 is moving towards > their own malloc for the server (it's already in the latest beta, and > it seems to work fine). > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIP E > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 02:19:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA10713 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:19:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA10697 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:19:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.7.1/1.33r) id CAA29131; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:19:12 -0800 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:19:12 -0800 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199512151019.CAA29131@violet.berkeley.edu> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: Hubbard's article in BYTE References: <4aqced$alc@interport.net> Organization: University of California, Berkeley To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In article <4aqced$alc@interport.net>, David Tay wrote: >Loved the article in FreeBSD. Very well written. Thanks - and no kisses necessary! I did it just to spread the word a little wider and, if others would like to join this emerging trend by mobbing other magazines with FreeBSD article submissions, I would not mind at all! For the first person to get into Dr. Dobbs or PC Magazine, in fact, my own lips are puckered and waiting. :-) >I do have one question, though. In the article, you said that one should >add 16mb of RAM for every 10 simultaenous FTP sessions. If that's true, >then how does ftp.cdrom.com squeeze 400 users into an 128mb machine? Unfortunately, I didn't say this. My editor did. :-( They also made up the interesting new term of "ISP Pentium", which made my hair stand straight up when I saw it. :( Perhaps DELL will play ball by actually making one now and I won't have to feel so bad! :) What I originally said was that for every 10 *interactive users* you should consider having 16MB of memory, with the assumption being that said users will be running emacs, reading mail and newsgroups, compiling versions of "crack", so on and so forth. Then in another paragraph I talked about configuring your machine for FTP users. In editing down my 3000 words to 1900, they managed to smash the two concepts together and ended up suggesting that one needed to spend the equivalent of Bolivia's gross national product just to get a couple of hundred FTP users! Ah well, at least they didn't do the opposite and suggest that you could get 400 users into 16MB of memory - that would have been *really* bad! :-) In retrospect, the fault was mine. I didn't leave enough time to get changes incorporated back into the galleys I received. I sent back the changes, but they didn't have enough time to get them in, evidently. Live and learn! Thanks for the kind plug, anyway! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 02:48:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA12717 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:48:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA12710 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:48:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA06829; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:44:57 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: growing X server processes In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:03:58 PST." <199512151003.CAA00725@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:44:56 +0100 Message-ID: <6827.819024296@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Dumb question, > > If XFree86 is moving to their on efficient malloc shouldn't we be doing the > same ? 8) > 1. Not if it is tuned to X11 in particular. 2. Not if it isn't better than what we have. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 02:48:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA12758 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:48:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from yokogawa.co.jp (yhqfm.yokogawa.co.jp [202.33.29.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA12748 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:48:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc.yokogawa.co.jp ([133.140.4.100]) by yokogawa.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb3/3.3Wb4-firewall:08/09/94) with SMTP id TAA13996; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:47:04 +0900 Received: from leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp by sjc.yokogawa.co.jp (4.1/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA-R/GW) id AA26957; Fri, 15 Dec 95 19:47:03 JST Received: from cabbage by leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.8/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA/pa) id AA04575; Fri, 15 Dec 95 19:47:02 +0900 Received: by cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.6/3.3Wb) id AA20012; Fri, 15 Dec 95 19:47:25 +0900 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 19:47:25 +0900 From: Mihoko Tanaka Message-Id: <9512151047.AA20012@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> To: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE Cc: TOTO@ifqsc.sc.usp.br, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Stefan Esser's message of Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:48:06 +0100 <199512041448.AA19736@Sysiphos> Subject: Re: PCI probe problems. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>} I'm trying to install 2.1 Release in 4 Pentium based motherboards with >>} PCI buses. In two of them (a Zeus and a noname one) the PCI gets >>} probed all right. In another noname motherboard, the bus doesn't get >>} probed (though everything seems OK if I install 2.0.5). In a compaq >>} machine both 2.0.5R and 2.1 R fail to probe the bus. >> >>There are too many systems with non-compliant chipsets (Compaq being >>the worst, IMHO), and the PCI bus probe code contains many special >>cases by now. You may want to try a kernel with the PCI probe code >>from FreeBSD-current. You'll only need "/sys/i386/isa/pcibus.c" from >>a -current source tree, it should compile cleanly on a 2.1R system. It is working well on COMPAQ PROLINEA 590. Thank you ! -- Mihoko Tanaka From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 02:59:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA13270 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:59:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA13259 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:59:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by Sysiphos id AA17408 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:57:34 +0100 Message-Id: <199512151057.AA17408@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:57:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: Mihoko Tanaka "SMC EtherPower doesn't work." (Dec 15, 18:45) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Mihoko Tanaka Subject: Re: SMC EtherPower doesn't work. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Dec 15, 18:45, Mihoko Tanaka wrote: } Subject: SMC EtherPower doesn't work. } } Hello all, } } I use FreeBSD-2.1.0R on HP Vectra VL590. and I try to install the network } card 'SMC EtherPowerPCI BT'. } but it could not be recognized. The error message is: } } pci_map_port failed: device's iorange 0xff80-0xffff } is incompatible with its bridge's range 0x0-0xffff } } But the bridge's iorange '0x0-0xffff' includes the device's iorange } '0xff80-0xffff'. I think the device's iorange is right. } Is it a bug of pci driver ? Hmm, it has up to now worked just fine for lots of I/O port mappings. But I guess none extended up to port address 0xffff ... } --- pci.c Mon Oct 9 15:35:59 1995 } +++ pci.c.new Thu Dec 14 12:09:19 1995 } @@ -922,7 +922,7 @@ } }; } iosize = -(data & PCI_MAP_IO_ADDRESS_MASK); } if (ioaddr < pcicb->pcicb_iobase } - || ioaddr + iosize > pcicb->pcicb_iolimit) { } + || (ioaddr + iosize -1) > pcicb->pcicb_iolimit) { } printf ("pci_map_port failed: device's iorange 0x%x-0x%x " } "is incompatible with its bridge's range 0x%x-0x%x\n", } (unsigned) ioaddr, (unsigned) ioaddr + iosize - 1, Thanks for sending the bug report ! I'll probably apply a slightly different fix, though ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 03:10:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA13694 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:10:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA13687 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:10:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA00741; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:02:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199512151102.DAA00741@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: growing X server processes In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:44:56 +0100." <6827.819024296@critter.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:02:02 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Poul-Henning Kamp said: > > Dumb question, > > > > If XFree86 is moving to their on efficient malloc shouldn't we be doing t he > > same ? 8) > > > > 1. Not if it is tuned to X11 in particular. > > 2. Not if it isn't better than what we have. Well, if Xfree86's malloc is inferior to what we have, trust me it will be one of the first things that I will take out as soon as I get my grubby hands on the sources. Most likely , others in different platforms will do the same. Now, what will be interesting to find out is, why does the XFree86 team need to write their malloc? >From my experience on X , is kind of hard to conceive that the X server /client behave that much different than any large complex system. This of course is a generalization. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 03:31:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA14896 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:31:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA14889 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA18329; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:25:24 -0800 To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: growing X server processes In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:02:02 PST." <199512151102.DAA00741@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:25:24 -0800 Message-ID: <18327.819026724@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Now, what will be interesting to find out is, why does the XFree86 team > need to write their malloc? Because they run on a lot more platforms than just FreeBSD and would like to have a little more consistency in their lives? Just a wild guess.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 03:39:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA15707 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:39:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA15692 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:39:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA06915; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:33:34 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: growing X server processes In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 03:02:02 PST." <199512151102.DAA00741@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:33:34 +0100 Message-ID: <6913.819027214@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Now, what will be interesting to find out is, why does the XFree86 team > need to write their malloc? for the same reason(s) FreeBSD did. > >From my experience on X , is kind of hard to conceive that the X server /cli ent > behave that much different than any large complex system. This of course > is a generalization. The point is exactly that they have a specific case to optimize against. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 04:04:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA17207 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:04:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pinewood.nl (gw.pinewood.nl [192.31.139.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA17198 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:04:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by gw.pinewood.nl (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA01256 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:04:38 +0100 Received: from pwood1.pinewood.nl(192.168.1.10) by gw.pinewood.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma001254; Fri Dec 15 13:03:41 1995 Received: (from franky@localhost) by pwood1.pinewood.nl (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA27079 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:02:17 +0100 From: "Frank ten Wolde" Message-Id: <9512151302.ZM27077@pwood1.pinewood.nl> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:02:16 +0100 X-Face: 'BsFf8'k.q?J#?|$D*,)/?sRB{woUK&9\5K{ERmT;VTSyNLBb?muLf>b:Pt&VTDw8YCaC]6 C!MRSMr5UNjZLa]fi? X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 15feb95) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Order of rules in ip_fw chain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have three questions/suggestions for discussion on the implementation of the ip firewall filter in FreeBSD 2.1.0. I would like to see who shares my ideas or if there are sound reasons why *not* to modify the existing implementation... Here I go: 1) I would suggest adding the following lines of code in .../sys/netinet/ip_fw.c, line 879: ifdef IPFIREWALL int ip_fw_ctl(stage, m) int stage; struct mbuf *m; { if (securelevel >= 2) { NEW return (EPERM); NEW } NEW if (stage == IP_FW_FLUSH) { free_fw_chain(&ip_fw_chain); return (0); } ... This would prevent any changes in the fw chain when running in very secure level. 2) I noticed that the order in which the fw checks incoming packets is *not* the same as the order in which the packet rules were added. IMHO this should be fixed. I have not had the time (yet) to have a look at the source myself, but will do so in the next few weeks. 3) I would suggest modifying ipfw.c to give some more informative message if the setsockopt call fails. Now it only lists something like "getsockopt failed", but it does not give you the reason. A simple perror("") would do the trick I suppose. I will try and have a look at the source code in the near future. Any discussion welcome. -Frank ten Wolde -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- F.W. ten Wolde (PA3FMT) Pinewood Automation B.V. E-mail: franky@pinewood.nl Kluyverweg 2a Phone: +31-15 2682543 2629 HT Delft From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 04:19:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA18112 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:19:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA18107 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA12003; Fri, 15 Dec 95 07:18:58 -0500 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id MAA09375; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:18:57 GMT Message-Id: <199512151218.MAA09375@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: growing X server processes In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:15:21 EDT. <199512150915.KAA00742@uriah.heep.sax.de> Organization: X Consortium Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:18:56 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > As Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > Probably a FAQ but: why is XF_S3 so much more memory hungry then > > XF_SVGA? I used an old ET4000 before and it did not grow nearly as > > much as the S3 I use now./ > > > > There has also been much debate about using gnumalloc. Was that just for > > building the clients and/or for the server? > > Mainly for the server. I use it for everything. Without gnumalloc my server would easily grow to ~10meg and never shrink. This was not very good on my 8meg ram/ 32meg swap machine to have a third of my swap consumed by unused server heap. With gnumalloc the server may peak around ~10 but when memory resources are freed gnumalloc actually returns the memory to the system with brk, so my server typically runs at about ~2.5-3meg. I get similar improvements by using gnumalloc in memory hungry clients like Mosaic and xv. The key is that gnumalloc calls sbrk with negative values to shrink the process virtual size when pages in the malloc arena become unused (by calls to free). I hope phkmalloc does the same. Of course this can fail if the heap becomes fragmented, but the empirical evidence so far seems to indicate that this is not a problem. The other thing gnumalloc has is a MacOS-style relocating memory allocator, which allows for garbage collection and thus eliminates the heap fragmentation problem, but it's awfully hard to retrofit this kind of allocator into legacy applications like the X server. > ... and XFree86 is moving towards > their own malloc for the server (it's already in the latest beta, and > it seems to work fine). It's not really "their own malloc". What it is is their own Xalloc. By default the server in the X Consortium sample implementation just uses malloc for Xalloc, but XFree86 have added value to their product by providing a better allocation strategy. They've profiled memory usage patterns in the server and written their Xalloc implementation using what they learned from the profile; but it's not "their own malloc". (For one thing the function call signature isn't the same as malloc.) -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 04:36:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA19673 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA19640 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:36:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA06976; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:34:54 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Frank ten Wolde" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:02:16 +0100." <9512151302.ZM27077@pwood1.pinewood.nl> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:34:54 +0100 Message-ID: <6974.819030894@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 1) I would suggest adding the following lines of code in > .../sys/netinet/ip_fw.c, line 879: > > This would prevent any changes in the fw chain when running in > very secure level. yes. > 2) I noticed that the order in which the fw checks incoming packets is > *not* the same as the order in which the packet rules were added. > IMHO this should be fixed. I have not had the time (yet) to have > a look at the source myself, but will do so in the next few weeks. yes. > 3) I would suggest modifying ipfw.c to give some more informative > message if the setsockopt call fails. Now it only lists something > like "getsockopt failed", but it does not give you the reason. > A simple perror("") would do the trick I suppose. I will try and > have a look at the source code in the near future. ok. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 04:37:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA19814 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:37:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA19807 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA06992; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:37:06 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: growing X server processes In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:18:56 EDT." <199512151218.MAA09375@exalt.x.org> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:37:05 +0100 Message-ID: <6990.819031025@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I use it for everything. Without gnumalloc my server would easily > grow to ~10meg and never shrink. This was not very good on my 8meg ram/ > 32meg swap machine to have a third of my swap consumed by unused server You should try out the malloc in -current then. I would probably do even better than gnumalloc in low-ram environments. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 06:30:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA24839 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 06:30:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA24833 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 06:30:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id PAA00216; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:26:21 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199512151426.PAA00216@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:26:20 +0100 (MET) Cc: franky@pinewood.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <6974.819030894@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Dec 15, 95 01:34:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > 2) I noticed that the order in which the fw checks incoming packets is > > *not* the same as the order in which the packet rules were added. > > IMHO this should be fixed. I have not had the time (yet) to have > > a look at the source myself, but will do so in the next few weeks. > > yes. #define yes This is correct. It is a major problem when configuring \ firewalls. It should be fixed. Please do it. I believe the problem is in the order of loading rules in the filtering chains. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 06:45:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA25454 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 06:45:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA25449 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 06:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id IAA01928; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:45:05 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:45:05 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199512151445.IAA01928@plains.nodak.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Subject: Re: mrouting/multicast Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Is there a simple way to test multicasting? I'm > trying to get a vat connection going on my local > ethernet but one machine (the one running mrouted) > doesn't see the local machine's session. if you are simply testing a multicast on a local segment (no routers between hosts), you do not need the mrouted (the MBONE router). the simplest test would be using sd to start a nv session and use the X Grabber (the X Grabber requires that you are running 8 bit graphics not 16 or 24). Start the sending on the one machine and you should see it on the other machine. If you want you can display the multicast traffic by using tcpdump: tcpdump net 224 There are some ethernet cards (the 3Com 309 --ep driver-- comes to mind as one such card) that does not support multicast in 2.1.0R and there is a patch in 2.0.5 for the ep.c that works but is a use at your own risk. This 2.0.5 patch does not work with the 2.1.0R ep.c driver, as a temporary solution for another local school I had to use the 2.0.5 patched driver in 2.1.0R kernel. To see if you card is multicast capiable, type : ifconfig -a and you should see something like: ||||||||| vvvvvvvvv ed0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 inet 134.129.125.6 netmask 0xffffc000 broadcast 134.129.127.255 if you are testing your MBONE router tunnels, then use the application mrinfo. it gives excellent information on the status of the connection. I would like to say that drop on replacements for mrouted 3.8 (needed to fix prunning errors in earlier releases is available at: ftp://parcftp.xerox.com/pub/net-research/ipmulti/mrouted3.8-i386-bsd.tar.gz I highly recommend everyone running mrouted under FreeBSD to go out and replace their old 3.{5 6} binaries. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 07:01:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA25980 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:01:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA25960 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:01:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA09736; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:59:01 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Luigi Rizzo cc: franky@pinewood.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:26:20 +0100." <199512151426.PAA00216@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:59:00 +0100 Message-ID: <9734.819039540@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > 2) I noticed that the order in which the fw checks incoming packets is > > > *not* the same as the order in which the packet rules were added. > > > IMHO this should be fixed. I have not had the time (yet) to have > > > a look at the source myself, but will do so in the next few weeks. > > > > yes. > > #define yes This is correct. It is a major problem when configuring \ > firewalls. It should be fixed. Please do it. > More like: #define yes Yes, please fix this and send us a patch :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 07:19:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA26635 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:19:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA26622 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:19:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id KAA16168; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:21:40 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA17537; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:21:39 +0500 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:21:39 +0500 Message-Id: <9512151521.AA17537.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Diskless systems X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Greetings fellow earthlings..... I have finished getting my diskless server running X..... I have XDM running on my Pentium with 16 Megs of ram and lots of disk space.. I have setup my old 386DX-40 to be a diskless X terminal running FreeBSD 2.0.5R and X. The diskless X terminals hierarchy on the Pentium is about 3 Meg in size... Not bad eh??? See below for info. The 386 will boot to a 'config.sys/autoexec.bat' DOS menu system. I select the X-terminal option and it boots over the net from the pentium. I loads /kernel which does it's thing, runs /etc/rc which will run /sbin/ifconfig for the ethernet adapter card, then it mounts the roots FS(it was mounted READ-ONLY at boot) with READ-WRITE perms, it then mounts a nother FS from the Pentium that has the fonts(XFS uses about 1 Meg of ram) available, At this point it loads the X server in query mode to connect to the Pentium. I have now got 2 seperate 386 class systems running as X terminals, Each requires about 1.5 Meg of stuff in its roots filesystem, the rest that each needs is located in a common location. Total space by both: 4.75 Meg, 1.25 Per system and 2.25(Shared, via NFS) for the minimal X. The exact details I can supply to all he would like them. I am going to spend the next few days(probably weeks) creating a 'HOW TO' guide and then post it to FreeBSD.org... Hopefully Jordan and the gang will add it to the handbook. Any way, I will be doing this from home(jerry@kcis.com), so if interm assistance is needed by some one, feel free to send me the details(to jerry@kcis.com).... Yes I have registered in the hackers list there as well as here(at work). BTW: the same setup can be used to implement full FreeBSD diskless systems, this is where I started from.... Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 07:52:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA28995 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:52:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA28990 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA16324; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:54:05 -0700 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:54:05 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199512151554.IAA16324@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Wilko Bulte Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R In-Reply-To: <199512142147.WAA00880@yedi.iaf.nl> References: <199512142147.WAA00880@yedi.iaf.nl> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > After I switched to a Asus P55TP4XE 90Mc I see things like > > sio0: 5 more silo overflows (total 7) > > The Asus supposedly has 16550A UARTs, of which I use one. > > On my previous MB, a 25Mc 486DX > I used an AST/4 with 16550A chips without a single silo overflow. > I also have the impression the UUCP datarate is now slower than > before. > > This is a 14K4 modem BTW, on a 57600 baud line. I hate to sound like a broken record, but are you *sure* you're using flow-control? Can you use stty on the connected end to make sure? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 08:09:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA00172 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:09:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00165 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:08:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA16380; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:11:15 -0700 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:11:15 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199512151611.JAA16380@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Frank ten Wolde" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain In-Reply-To: <9512151302.ZM27077@pwood1.pinewood.nl> References: <9512151302.ZM27077@pwood1.pinewood.nl> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I have three questions/suggestions for discussion on the implementation of > the ip firewall filter in FreeBSD 2.1.0. I would like to see who shares > my ideas or if there are sound reasons why *not* to modify the existing > implementation... > > Here I go: > > 1) I would suggest adding the following lines of code in > .../sys/netinet/ip_fw.c, line 879: > > ifdef IPFIREWALL > int > ip_fw_ctl(stage, m) > int stage; > struct mbuf *m; > { > > if (securelevel >= 2) { NEW > return (EPERM); NEW > } NEW Just out of curiousity, how are you adding the lines to the firewall list *before* the machine goes multi-user? On my box, I can't simply because the networking code isn't (yet) up and running. > 2) I noticed that the order in which the fw checks incoming packets is > *not* the same as the order in which the packet rules were added. > IMHO this should be fixed. I have not had the time (yet) to have > a look at the source myself, but will do so in the next few weeks. Ugen was supposed to be working on this a while back. I agree that something should be done. His work was going to allow 'priority' based rules, which I agree would be a good thing. Either that or allow the rules to be listed in the same order in the kernel as they are added. But, you'd need a way to modify the list in non-secure mode, so I think the priority based approach is probably more flexible. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 08:22:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA01327 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:22:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.muc.ditec.de (gw.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01314 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:22:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from tartufo.muc.ditec.de (tartufo.muc.ditec.de [134.98.18.2]) by gw.muc.ditec.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA24847 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:22:46 +0100 Received: by tartufo.muc.ditec.de (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.39) id ; Fri, 15 Dec 95 17:23 MET Message-Id: Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 17:23 MET From: me@tartufo.muc.ditec.de (Michael Elbel) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A call for DNS secondaries to server for .freebsd.org Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers References: <199512081551.PAA13026@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> <28692.818441105@time.cdrom.com> Reply-To: me@gw.muc.ditec.de X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: >I think we should also consider the possible confusion this may >cause and only create new subdomains in pairs. E.g. it would be >really evil if we had ftp.fr.freebsd.org, ftp.it.freebsd.org, etc. >and then an ftp.freebsd.org.uk but no ftp.uk.freebsd.org. >It would cause no end of questions. >What do other folks think? Are we perhaps over-complicating this? I think it's over-complicating things. Due to the cachieness of name service it's not saving much traffic (if at all) and you can't rely on orthogonal nameing, e.g. there is no such thing as .org.de On the other hand, the internic weren't the first to charge for domain registration. Here in Germany it costs about DM 800 or so per year to have a domain. Michael -- Michael Elbel, DITEC, Muenchen, Germany - me@muc.ditec.de Fermentation fault (coors dumped) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 08:23:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA01417 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pinewood.nl (gw.pinewood.nl [192.31.139.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01388 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:23:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by gw.pinewood.nl (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA08150; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:23:37 +0100 Received: from pwood1.pinewood.nl(192.168.1.10) by gw.pinewood.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma008148; Fri Dec 15 17:23:03 1995 Received: (from franky@localhost) by pwood1.pinewood.nl (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA00311; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:20:24 +0100 From: "Frank ten Wolde" Message-Id: <9512151720.ZM309@pwood1.pinewood.nl> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:20:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams "Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain" (Dec 15, 9:11) References: <9512151302.ZM27077@pwood1.pinewood.nl> <199512151611.JAA16380@rocky.sri.MT.net> X-Face: 'BsFf8'k.q?J#?|$D*,)/?sRB{woUK&9\5K{ERmT;VTSyNLBb?muLf>b:Pt&VTDw8YCaC]6 C!MRSMr5UNjZLa]fi? X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: Nate Williams , "Frank ten Wolde" Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Dec 15, 9:11, Nate Williams wrote: > Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain > > > > 1) I would suggest adding the following lines of code in > > .../sys/netinet/ip_fw.c, line 879: > > > > ifdef IPFIREWALL > > int > > ip_fw_ctl(stage, m) > > int stage; > > struct mbuf *m; > > { > > > > if (securelevel >= 2) { NEW > > return (EPERM); NEW > > } NEW > > Just out of curiousity, how are you adding the lines to the firewall > list *before* the machine goes multi-user? On my box, I can't simply > because the networking code isn't (yet) up and running. > Apparently FreeBSD allows you to add the ip_fw chains *before* the network interfaces are up. The above code is actually running on our firewall (FreeBSD of course :-). In /etc/rc, just after the local file systems have been mounted (line 81), I setup the ip_fw chain, followed by a sysctl kern.securelevel to bump it to 2. When you try to flush the chain (ipfw f f) you get: ipfw: setsockopt failed. This should become: ipfw: setsockopt failed (operation not permitted). or something similar. > > 2) I noticed that the order in which the fw checks incoming packets is > > *not* the same as the order in which the packet rules were added. > > IMHO this should be fixed. I have not had the time (yet) to have > > a look at the source myself, but will do so in the next few weeks. > > Ugen was supposed to be working on this a while back. I agree that > something should be done. His work was going to allow 'priority' based > rules, which I agree would be a good thing. Either that or allow the > rules to be listed in the same order in the kernel as they are added. > But, you'd need a way to modify the list in non-secure mode, so I think > the priority based approach is probably more flexible. > Tell me more about 'priority' based rules, I don't grasp the basic idea behind it (could be because it's Friday late-afternoon :-). Unless 'priority' based rules are a pretty neat idea, I would suggest to simply apply the rules as they are added to the chain. Packet filter rules are hard to understand/design, even without the OS altering the order of rules... > > Nate -Frank -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- F.W. ten Wolde (PA3FMT) Pinewood Automation B.V. E-mail: franky@pinewood.nl Kluyverweg 2a Phone: +31-15 2682543 2629 HT Delft From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 08:37:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA02509 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:37:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02502 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:37:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA16535; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:39:28 -0700 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:39:28 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199512151639.JAA16535@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Frank ten Wolde" Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain In-Reply-To: <9512151720.ZM309@pwood1.pinewood.nl> References: <9512151302.ZM27077@pwood1.pinewood.nl> <199512151611.JAA16380@rocky.sri.MT.net> <9512151720.ZM309@pwood1.pinewood.nl> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > 2) I noticed that the order in which the fw checks incoming packets is > > > *not* the same as the order in which the packet rules were added. > > > IMHO this should be fixed. I have not had the time (yet) to have > > > a look at the source myself, but will do so in the next few weeks. > > > > Ugen was supposed to be working on this a while back. I agree that > > something should be done. His work was going to allow 'priority' based > > rules, which I agree would be a good thing. Either that or allow the > > rules to be listed in the same order in the kernel as they are added. > > But, you'd need a way to modify the list in non-secure mode, so I think > > the priority based approach is probably more flexible. > > Tell me more about 'priority' based rules, I don't grasp the basic idea > behind it (could be because it's Friday late-afternoon :-). Basically, with priority based rules, you attach a 'priority' on the rule which causes this ruls to be placed above all other rules with a higher priority number. (I'm assuming that priority 0 is the highest priority simply because it's easier to deal with a fixed upper limit than a fixed lower limit in these schemes) So, if a rule is added that has priority 4, it will be placed *after* any other rules with priorities 0-3. This allow you to set global filters which filter our *all* traffic of a certain kind no matter what the content is, and also allow you to add a new filter rule at a later date on the fly (assuming the security level is ok) to lock out traffic from a hacker site, knowing that it will be placed above any other filter rules which may allow certain types of traffic. This is great for stopping mail spamming and such. Normally, I allow *any* incoming traffic to the smtp port, but if I start getting mail bombed (by accident or otherwise), with priority rules I can add a new rule-set on the fly to block smtp traffic from a particular host which has a higher priority than my previous version. Finally, while I agree that not allowing the filtering rules is a good thing, I'm of the opinion that it's much better to allow changing it without having to reboot the system. I have a pretty good set of rules, but there are occasions when I need to open up the firewall to 'trusted' hosts, and I'd rather not bring down my Internet connection to do it. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 09:21:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04753 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:21:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [199.166.238.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA04734 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:21:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA00785; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:17:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:16:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: PCI Settings on ACER MB... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi... I just picked up and installed a new ACER PCI 486DX4-100...and I swear it isn't faster then my old 386DX40. Pine still takes forever to loadup, as are most of my applications that are dynamically linked, and I just hit what is being reported as a 'bus error' signal to cc1 when I try to compile anything. Now, I've rebooted the machine, and its fine now, so am trying to recompile the kernel again and will see what happens in that regard. Now, its a PCI motherboard, and there are setting here that I don't much understand, nor know if they have relevance to Unix/FreeBSD in any regard, good or bad. Any recommendations are much appreciated on which why they should be set: CPU Burst Write (not sure what current is) Video Shadow (disabled, ATI Mach64 4MB Video Card) Main BIOS Cacheable (disabled, didn't think Unix used it) Video Shadow Cacheable (disabled) LBA Mode (disabled, only one IDE drive, < 500MB) 32-bit transfer (enabled, IDE) CPU-to-PCI Memory Post Write Buffer (not sure of setting) CPU-to-PCI Memory Burst Write (not sure of setting) Those are the only things in the manual that I'm not sure whether they are applicable to Unix, and how... Thanks for any advice on this... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting scrappy@hub.org | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, soon to be: | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://hub.org | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 09:36:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA05600 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:36:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from twirl.io.org (jfitz@twirl.io.org [198.133.36.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05564 Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jfitz@localhost) by twirl.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA04988; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:35:42 GMT Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:35:42 +0000 (GMT) From: James FitzGibbon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Running Spry WebServer for BSDi under 2.1.0 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone had success in running Spry WebServer for BSDi under FreeBSD 2.1.0 ? I get a segmentation fault every time I run any binary in the package (from server to cgi-bin). I have to recompile to produce a kernel trace of the crash, but I was hoping that someone out there might already have solved this one. Thanks. j. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- James FitzGibbon jfitz@io.org IO Volunteer Community Support ... Go ahead, jump. 100,000 lemmings can't be wrong. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 09:37:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA05657 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:37:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from FSL.ORST.EDU (hernanw@FSL.ORST.EDU [128.193.112.105]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05652 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:37:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hernanw@localhost) by FSL.ORST.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA29494; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:36:59 -0800 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:36:58 -0800 (PST) From: Wayne Hernandez To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Schedule for updates of sup and mirrors. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > What is the update schedule for the SUP distribution of cvs? > If I get a copy from sup2.freebsd.org, how often will they be generating > their update. > > On sup3.freebsd.org, I will be updating Stable, current, and ports twice a day, so you should not get anything older than 12 hours. Wayne From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 10:13:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA07850 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:13:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA07816 Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:13:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA22420; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:12:25 -0800 To: James FitzGibbon cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Running Spry WebServer for BSDi under 2.1.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:35:42 GMT." Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:12:25 -0800 Message-ID: <22412.819051145@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Has anyone had success in running Spry WebServer for BSDi under FreeBSD > 2.1.0 ? I get a segmentation fault every time I run any binary in the > package (from server to cgi-bin). Is this a BSD/OS 1.x or BSD/OS 2.0 binary? If it's the latter, then the changes necessary to get it to run were only recently brought into FreeBSD-current. Unfortunately, -current is also fairly unstable right now so I'd have to recommend waiting until we figure out a way of bringing it back into 2.1 (yes, I support bringing this into 2.1 as I actually feel it to be pretty darn important that we be able to run BSD/OS 2.0 binaries in our mainstream releases!). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 10:29:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA09327 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:29:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA09322 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:29:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA04286 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:29:27 -0800 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Hmmmm. Are all the sup servers now online? Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:29:27 -0800 Message-ID: <4272.819052167@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk So far we have: sup.freebsd.org -> freefall (soon to be somewhat more limited in the number of connections supported) sup2.freebsd.org -> insecurity.shockwave.com (between 10 and 20 connections allowed, I think) sup3.freebsd.org -> lucus.fsl.orst.edu (between 10 and 20 connections allowed, I think) I also believe that nic.funet.fi provides sup access, but we haven't had anyone volunteer to be a DNS secondary for Finland yet so it's not yet registered under sup.fi.freebsd.org, as it eventually should be. I've also been thinking about this a little and wondering if we shouldn't *also* map servers into freebsd.org regardless of location? That we could rank them also by degrees of connectivity, e.g.: sup.freebsd.org (as shown) sup2.freebsd.org (as shown) sup3.freebsd.org (as shown) sup4.freebsd.org (TBA) sup5.freebsd.org (TBA) sup6.freebsd.org (TBA) sup7.freebsd.org -> sup.fi.freebsd.org (these sup8.freebsd.org -> sup.de.freebsd.org don't sup9.freebsd.org -> sup.uk.freebsd.org exist sup10.freebsd.org -> sup2.uk.freebsd.org yet) And so on.. The same would hold true for `ftp' and `www', of course. My major objective here is to make it as dead-simple for the end user as possible. If they can't get a connection to the first server site they try, they can just bump the number up and try again. A no-brainer. Back when the Internet used to work, restricting things by region made sense. Now you're just as likely to be able to get from New York to Finland as you are from New York to San Francisco! :-( You'd also be amazed at the number of people who've sent me mail asking for the MIRROR.SITES file - I say "it's on ftp.freebsd.org" and they say BUT WE CAN'T GET ON TO FTP.FREEBSD.ORG, DARN IT! They I say "it's on the boot floppy" and they say (repeat). I guess there's no excuse for not looking on http://www.freebsd.org, but some folks are impatient. In any case, whether we do this or not, I'm still waiting to accumulate the 6 "official sup sites" I promised David before announcing the opening of the CVS tree to general access. Any volunteers for sup4, sup5 and sup6? Please? Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 11:00:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA11197 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:00:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11190 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:00:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA26342; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 05:59:54 +1100 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 05:59:54 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512151859.FAA26342@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> After I switched to a Asus P55TP4XE 90Mc I see things like >> >> sio0: 5 more silo overflows (total 7) >> >> The Asus supposedly has 16550A UARTs, of which I use one. >> >> On my previous MB, a 25Mc 486DX >> I used an AST/4 with 16550A chips without a single silo overflow. >> I also have the impression the UUCP datarate is now slower than >> before. >> >> This is a 14K4 modem BTW, on a 57600 baud line. >I hate to sound like a broken record, but are you *sure* you're using >flow-control? Can you use stty on the connected end to make sure? Er, flow control has no effect on silo overflows. Perhaps the problem is a downgrade to a bus-hogging DMA controller. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 11:03:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA11292 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:03:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11287 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:03:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA17033; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:06:07 -0700 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:06:07 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199512151906.MAA17033@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Bruce Evans Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R In-Reply-To: <199512151859.FAA26342@godzilla.zeta.org.au> References: <199512151859.FAA26342@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> After I switched to a Asus P55TP4XE 90Mc I see things like > >> > >> sio0: 5 more silo overflows (total 7) > > >I hate to sound like a broken record, but are you *sure* you're using > >flow-control? Can you use stty on the connected end to make sure? > > Er, flow control has no effect on silo overflows. Really? If a machine doesn't provide flow control can't you over-run the buffers if the machine gets loaded down and the interrupt load gets so bad that the sio interrupt handler isn't called enough. However, if you use flow control shouldn't it stop the buffer from getting overflowed simply because no more data is being received. Am I totally out to lunch here? I know that I get lots of silo over-flows when I don't use flow control and push the line fast, where as soon as I turn on flow control they go away. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 11:05:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA11424 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11414 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:05:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA04166; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:03:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199512151903.LAA04166@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: growing X server processes In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:33:34 +0100." <6913.819027214@critter.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:03:07 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Poul-Henning Kamp said: > > Now, what will be interesting to find out is, why does the XFree86 team > > need to write their malloc? > for the same reason(s) FreeBSD did. May I ask what are those reasons? Also, does the malloc return memory back to the system when it can? > > > >From my experience on X , is kind of hard to conceive that the X server / cli > ent > > behave that much different than any large complex system. This of course > > is a generalization. > The point is exactly that they have a specific case to optimize against. I guess that it should be interesting to find out exactly what is the case or the profile that Kaleb mentioned in another posting. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 11:10:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA11621 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:10:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from technix.org (root@pcca71.gallaudet.edu [134.231.56.107]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11613 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:10:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jon@localhost) by technix.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA10580; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:16:49 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:16:49 -0500 (EST) From: Basket Case To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hmmmm. Are all the sup servers now online? In-Reply-To: <4272.819052167@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I can offer my computer to run as either sup4/5/6 -- I'm on a t1 line and will be on the net until May before I graduate. Let me know if you are interested in temporary sites... If so then I'll go ahead and set something up. Right now I have 32 megs of ram (perhaps I will upgrade to 64 soon), p5-100, 3c590, etc... Jon On Fri, 15 Dec 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > So far we have: > > sup.freebsd.org -> freefall (soon to be somewhat more limited > in the number of connections supported) > > sup2.freebsd.org -> insecurity.shockwave.com (between > 10 and 20 connections allowed, I think) > > sup3.freebsd.org -> lucus.fsl.orst.edu (between > 10 and 20 connections allowed, I think) > > I also believe that nic.funet.fi provides sup access, but we haven't > had anyone volunteer to be a DNS secondary for Finland yet so it's not > yet registered under sup.fi.freebsd.org, as it eventually should be. > > I've also been thinking about this a little and wondering if we > shouldn't *also* map servers into freebsd.org regardless of location? > That we could rank them also by degrees of connectivity, e.g.: > > sup.freebsd.org (as shown) > sup2.freebsd.org (as shown) > sup3.freebsd.org (as shown) > sup4.freebsd.org (TBA) > sup5.freebsd.org (TBA) > sup6.freebsd.org (TBA) > sup7.freebsd.org -> sup.fi.freebsd.org (these > sup8.freebsd.org -> sup.de.freebsd.org don't > sup9.freebsd.org -> sup.uk.freebsd.org exist > sup10.freebsd.org -> sup2.uk.freebsd.org yet) > > And so on.. The same would hold true for `ftp' and `www', of course. > > My major objective here is to make it as dead-simple for the end user > as possible. If they can't get a connection to the first server site > they try, they can just bump the number up and try again. A > no-brainer. Back when the Internet used to work, restricting things > by region made sense. Now you're just as likely to be able to get > from New York to Finland as you are from New York to San Francisco! :-( > > You'd also be amazed at the number of people who've sent me mail > asking for the MIRROR.SITES file - I say "it's on ftp.freebsd.org" and > they say BUT WE CAN'T GET ON TO FTP.FREEBSD.ORG, DARN IT! They I say > "it's on the boot floppy" and they say (repeat). I guess there's no > excuse for not looking on http://www.freebsd.org, but some folks are > impatient. > > In any case, whether we do this or not, I'm still waiting to > accumulate the 6 "official sup sites" I promised David before > announcing the opening of the CVS tree to general access. Any > volunteers for sup4, sup5 and sup6? Please? > > Thanks! > > Jordan > Jon =--------------------------------Basket Case----------------------------------= = E-Mail: jon@technix.org - Computer Science - C/C++/Pascal/Basic/ASM = = WWW: http://www.technix.org - Systems Administrator - FreeBSD 2.1.0 SNAP = =-----------------------------------------------------------------------------= From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 11:21:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA12232 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:21:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12224 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:21:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA13892; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:39:15 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:39:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199512151939.OAA13892@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Hubbard's article in BYTE Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >In article <4aqced$alc@interport.net>, >David Tay wrote: >>Loved the article in FreeBSD. Very well written. > >Thanks - and no kisses necessary! I did it just to spread the word a >little wider and, if others would like to join this emerging trend >by mobbing other magazines with FreeBSD article submissions, I would >not mind at all! For the first person to get into Dr. Dobbs or >PC Magazine, in fact, my own lips are puckered and waiting. :-) > >>I do have one question, though. In the article, you said that one should >>add 16mb of RAM for every 10 simultaenous FTP sessions. If that's true, >>then how does ftp.cdrom.com squeeze 400 users into an 128mb machine? > >Unfortunately, I didn't say this. My editor did. :-( They also made >up the interesting new term of "ISP Pentium", which made my hair stand >straight up when I saw it. :( Perhaps DELL will play ball by actually >making one now and I won't have to feel so bad! :) > Hopefully, the rumors of "what a memory hog" FreeBSD is won't spred too quickly...... I wrote an article about X.25 for (the now defunct) Mini-Microsystems years ago and when it came back from the editor I was stunned at the lies that they had created from the truths that I had submitted...luckily I corrected them and it was printed after my approval. What most concerned me was that if I had wriiten that the Earth revolved around Pluto they would have printed it.....as they had no-one on staff that could understand the technical details of what I had written. Since then, I only look at the pictures in technical magazines....... dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 11:40:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13201 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:40:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13193 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:40:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA04574 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:40:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199512151940.LAA04574@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: freebsd mbone conference? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:40:16 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Howdy, Is anyone interested in having an informal video/audio conference this weekend? If so , just send me e-mail and if there is enough interest, I will announce the date / time both on the list and on sd. This is mostly a mini-trial. What I have in mind is to start a trend of having FreeBSD video/audio conferences. Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 11:42:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13339 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13334 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:42:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA24732; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:42:30 -0800 To: Basket Case Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hmmmm. Are all the sup servers now online? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:16:49 EST." Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:42:29 -0800 Message-ID: <24730.819056549@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Thanks much for the offer, but what we're looking for are long-term sites that will be around for *at least* the next year or so. Not to be snobbish, but the administrative overhead otherwise just gets to be too high, and we're also faced with users who are annoyed with us when a core resource suddenly drops off line! :-( Jordan > I can offer my computer to run as either sup4/5/6 -- I'm on a t1 line and > will be on the net until May before I graduate. Let me know if you are > interested in temporary sites... If so then I'll go ahead and set > something up. Right now I have 32 megs of ram (perhaps I will upgrade to > 64 soon), p5-100, 3c590, etc... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 11:52:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13866 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:52:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13784 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:51:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA28090; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 06:48:22 +1100 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 06:48:22 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512151948.GAA28090@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> After I switched to a Asus P55TP4XE 90Mc I see things like >> >> >> >> sio0: 5 more silo overflows (total 7) >> >> >I hate to sound like a broken record, but are you *sure* you're using >> >flow-control? Can you use stty on the connected end to make sure? >> >> Er, flow control has no effect on silo overflows. >Really? If a machine doesn't provide flow control can't you over-run >the buffers if the machine gets loaded down and the interrupt load gets >so bad that the sio interrupt handler isn't called enough. However, if If the interrupt load gets so bad that the sio interrupt handler isn't called enough, then the interrupt handler won't get called enough to control the flow. This is for 8250-16550's; other chips are better. Perhaps more importantly, the sender may not respond to the flow control until many characters later, so either the reciever's hardware must have enough buffering to hold that many characters, or the sio interrupt handler must be called before the receiver's buffers fill up. >you use flow control shouldn't it stop the buffer from getting >overflowed simply because no more data is being received. `silo' != `buffer'. FLow control stops the 2 layers of buffers in the driver from overflowing. There is a different message for each layer. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 11:54:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13943 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:54:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13932 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id UAA00783; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:50:23 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199512151950.UAA00783@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:50:22 +0100 (MET) Cc: franky@pinewood.nl, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512151639.JAA16535@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 15, 95 09:39:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Ugen was supposed to be working on this a while back. I agree that > > > something should be done. His work was going to allow 'priority' based > > > rules, which I agree would be a good thing. Either that or allow the > > > rules to be listed in the same order in the kernel as they are added. > > > > Tell me more about 'priority' based rules, I don't grasp the basic idea > > behind it (could be because it's Friday late-afternoon :-). > > Basically, with priority based rules, you attach a 'priority' on the > rule which causes this ruls to be placed above all other rules with > a higher priority number. (I'm assuming that priority 0 is the highest Priorities are nice, but kind of hard to implement. Moreover, an ordering between rules with the same priority is still required to achieve a deterministic *and* easili predictable behaviour. What I do to set the firewall is to have a script like this ipfw -n flush ipfw -n policy deny ... filtering rules Whenever I need, I modify the script and re-run it. Sure, there is a hole in between the two commands where unwanted connections might get in, but the probability is quite low *and* a simple change to the 'flush' command can allow the firewall to set the default policy as well. All in all, I would just try to make additions to the firewall chain be stored in the same order as they are made. > Finally, while I agree that not allowing the filtering rules is a good > thing, I'm of the opinion that it's much better to allow changing it > without having to reboot the system. I have a pretty good set of rules, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ it is non-trivial to determine if the rules work, and expecially to fix unwanted behaviours, given the unknown addition order. Hopefully it is deterministic. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 12:18:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA15327 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:18:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15322 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:18:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA27664; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:18:19 -0800 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:18:19 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: More entries for services Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk radius 1645/udp radiusd radacct 1646/udp Can the following entries be added to services. They're for RADIUS stuff, probably moderately popular. Thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 12:37:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA16287 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.ge.com (ns.ge.com [192.35.39.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16282 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:37:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from crissy.gemis.ge.com ([3.29.7.57]) by ns.ge.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA18091; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:36:54 -0500 Received: from salem.ge.com (carsdb.salem.ge.com [3.29.7.15]) by crissy.gemis.ge.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA20620; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:30:59 -0500 Received: from combs.salem.ge.com by salem.ge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17483; Fri, 15 Dec 95 15:36:49 EST Received: (from steve@localhost) by combs.salem.ge.com (8.7.2/8.6.11) id PAA26801; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:36:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:36:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Stephen F. Combs" Message-Id: <199512152036.PAA26801@combs.salem.ge.com> To: bde@zeta.org.au, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 15:29:45 1995 > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:06:07 -0700 > From: Nate Williams > To: Bruce Evans > Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R > In-Reply-To: <199512151859.FAA26342@godzilla.zeta.org.au> > Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org > Content-Length: 841 > > > >> After I switched to a Asus P55TP4XE 90Mc I see things like > > >> > > >> sio0: 5 more silo overflows (total 7) > > > > >I hate to sound like a broken record, but are you *sure* you're using > > >flow-control? Can you use stty on the connected end to make sure? > > > > Er, flow control has no effect on silo overflows. > > Really? If a machine doesn't provide flow control can't you over-run > the buffers if the machine gets loaded down and the interrupt load gets > so bad that the sio interrupt handler isn't called enough. However, if > you use flow control shouldn't it stop the buffer from getting > overflowed simply because no more data is being received. > > Am I totally out to lunch here? I know that I get lots of silo > over-flows when I don't use flow control and push the line fast, where > as soon as I turn on flow control they go away. > > > Nate > Unless the FreeBSD team responsible for the 'sio' driver has made ENORMOUS changes since the last time I looked at it (quite a while ago!?!), flow control DOES affect silo-overruns! Flow-Control provides a throttle, limiting the chances of a silo-overrun (not eliminating it, just limiting it). The modem/printer/mouse/other computer attached to the sio port MUST respect the STOP flow-control signal within a reasonable amount of time (a few, 2-4, character transmission times, usually) for flow-control to be effective, but, most modern pieces of equipment do. Steve Combs From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 13:00:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17284 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:00:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17279 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA30345; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 07:59:54 +1100 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 07:59:54 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512152059.HAA30345@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, combssf@salem.ge.com, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > Er, flow control has no effect on silo overflows. >> >> Really? If a machine doesn't provide flow control can't you over-run >> the buffers if the machine gets loaded down and the interrupt load gets >> so bad that the sio interrupt handler isn't called enough. However, if >Unless the FreeBSD team responsible for the 'sio' driver has made ENORMOUS >changes since the last time I looked at it (quite a while ago!?!), >flow control DOES affect silo-overruns! Flow-Control provides a throttle, >limiting the chances of a silo-overrun (not eliminating it, just limiting it). See my other mail. Flow nontrol not only doesn't affect silo overruns if it is under software control (as it is for 8250-16550 chips), it fundamentally can't affect it. Except of course if input flow is always disabled, or disabled while the system is too busy to receive data (e.g., while doing disk i/o or other serial i/o). FreeBSD doesn't implement the latter since it is rarely too busy to receive data. >The modem/printer/mouse/other computer attached to the sio port MUST respect >the STOP flow-control signal within a reasonable amount of time >(a few, 2-4, character transmission times, usually) for flow-control to be >effective, but, most modern pieces of equipment do. Well, if the device attached uses a 16550 with its FIFO enabled, then it can't stop in less than 16 character times without losing data. Thus a symmetrical connection between 16550s is almost guaranteed to overrun the hardware input buffers at each end if the software is too busy to read the buffers, while a 16550 transmitting to a 16450 is almost guaranteed to overrun the hardware input buffers by a factor of 16 if the software is too busy. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 13:13:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA18083 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:13:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18074 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:13:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id QAA11687; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:16:25 -0500 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA29716; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:16:23 +0500 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:16:23 +0500 Message-Id: <9512152116.AA29716.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd mbone conference? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Howdy, > > Is anyone interested in having an informal video/audio conference this > weekend? If so , just send me e-mail and if there is enough > interest, I will announce the date / time both on the list and > on sd. How would you do this ??? Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 13:15:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA18149 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:15:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18144 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:15:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA17558; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:17:40 -0700 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:17:40 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199512152117.OAA17558@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain In-Reply-To: <199512151950.UAA00783@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> References: <199512151639.JAA16535@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199512151950.UAA00783@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Luigi Rizzo writes: > > > > Ugen was supposed to be working on this a while back. I agree that > > > > something should be done. His work was going to allow 'priority' based > > > > rules, which I agree would be a good thing. Either that or allow the > > > > rules to be listed in the same order in the kernel as they are added. > > > > > > Tell me more about 'priority' based rules, I don't grasp the basic idea > > > behind it (could be because it's Friday late-afternoon :-). > > > > Basically, with priority based rules, you attach a 'priority' on the > > rule which causes this ruls to be placed above all other rules with > > a higher priority number. (I'm assuming that priority 0 is the highest > > Priorities are nice, but kind of hard to implement. Huh? Using a simple priority queue they are cake, and priority queus are *very* simple to write. > Moreover, an ordering between rules with the same priority is still > required to achieve a deterministic *and* easili predictable > behaviour. This would be based on the order of the file. > What I do to set the firewall is to have a script like this > > ipfw -n flush > ipfw -n policy deny > ... filtering rules > > Whenever I need, I modify the script and re-run it. Sure, there > is a hole in between the two commands where unwanted connections > might get in, but the probability is quite low *and* a simple change > to the 'flush' command can allow the firewall to set the default > policy as well. This is what I do as well because I *can't* do any priority based ordering now, but with priority based ordering I test things easier. > All in all, I would just try to make additions to the firewall chain be > stored in the same order as they are made. I still think adding priorities would make things easier, and would allow less mistakes with users if they can know that rules are placed in an order in the tree, IMHO. > > Finally, while I agree that not allowing the filtering rules is a good > > thing, I'm of the opinion that it's much better to allow changing it > > without having to reboot the system. I have a pretty good set of rules, > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > it is non-trivial to determine if the rules work, and expecially > to fix unwanted behaviours, given the unknown addition order. > Hopefully it is deterministic. The current system is not the optimal solution. My comment above was in regards to the desire for the addition to the code to not allow firewall updates if the system was in securelevel > 0. I like to run my firewall system fairly secure, but if I couldn't do firewall updates it would be a hinderance more than a help to me. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 13:18:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA18336 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from kachina.jetcafe.org ([206.117.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18331 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:18:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([127.0.0.1]) by kachina.jetcafe.org (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA11028; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:18:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199512152118.NAA11028@kachina.jetcafe.org> To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd mbone conference? Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:18:20 -0800 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Amancio Hasty Jr." writes: >Is anyone interested in having an informal video/audio conference this >weekend? If so , just send me e-mail and if there is enough >interest, I will announce the date / time both on the list and >on sd. I can do it, depending on time. I'd still like to talk about high quality audio over the MBONE. ------ >>> Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org <<< Show me a person who really knows what 'good' is, and I will show you that the person almost never uses the word. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 13:21:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA18664 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:21:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18633 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:21:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA10227; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:21:05 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA00877; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:21:05 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA02426; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:19:42 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512152119.WAA02426@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Hubbard's article in BYTE To: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:19:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512151019.CAA29131@violet.berkeley.edu> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 15, 95 02:19:12 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Thanks - and no kisses necessary! I did it just to spread the word a > little wider and, if others would like to join this emerging trend > by mobbing other magazines with FreeBSD article submissions, I would > not mind at all! For the first person to get into Dr. Dobbs or > PC Magazine, in fact, my own lips are puckered and waiting. :-) Lars Gerhard Kühl has been writing an excellent article for the German UNIXopen magazine. I've read it today, and it looked very well! (Danke, Lars!) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 14:19:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA22045 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:19:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22032 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA05824; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:19:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199512152219.OAA05824@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol To: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd mbone conference? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:16:23 +0500." <9512152116.AA29716.gonzo@vmicls.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5821.819065971.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:19:31 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well, we have mbone audio/video tools such as vic and vat . vat is for audio and vic is for video. If you have a video catpure board such as the Matrox Meteor PCI, then you can use vic or nv to transmit video . Both vic and nv capble of receiving video. Amancio >>> Jerry Kendall said: > > Howdy, > > > > Is anyone interested in having an informal video/audio conference this > > weekend? If so , just send me e-mail and if there is enough > > interest, I will announce the date / time both on the list and > > on sd. > > How would you do this ??? > > Jerry > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 15:10:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25051 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:10:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeus.bbcc.ctc.edu (ZEUS.BBCC.CTC.EDU [134.39.180.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25044 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chris@localhost) by zeus.bbcc.ctc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA04607 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:13:08 GMT Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:13:08 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.3-beta [p0] on FreeBSD Reply-To: chrisc@MAIL.bbcc.ctc.edu Organization: Big Bend Community College From: Chris Coleman To: Subject: Sup Server Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I work for and attend Big Bend community college. We are just laying fiber optic for our whole campus. We have just recently decided to use FreeBSD as our UNIX operating system for our Internet servers We just ordered a computer with 3 four gig scsi drives and want to volunteer to provide SUP and other services I just got permission from my Boss today, because he would like the development at our doorstep. But the hardware isn't here yet. It will be shipped on Monday I hope. As soon as its here and we can get th e configuration stable we want to help out. In the future, when we learn enough, we would even like to help develop it. If we can help out, let us know. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 15:10:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25091 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:10:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25079 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA14493; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:28:30 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:28:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199512152328.SAA14493@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Bruce Evans From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> After I switched to a Asus P55TP4XE 90Mc I see things like >>> >>> sio0: 5 more silo overflows (total 7) >>> >>> The Asus supposedly has 16550A UARTs, of which I use one. >>> >>> On my previous MB, a 25Mc 486DX >>> I used an AST/4 with 16550A chips without a single silo overflow. >>> I also have the impression the UUCP datarate is now slower than >>> before. >>> >>> This is a 14K4 modem BTW, on a 57600 baud line. > >>I hate to sound like a broken record, but are you *sure* you're using >>flow-control? Can you use stty on the connected end to make sure? > >Er, flow control has no effect on silo overflows. > >Perhaps the problem is a downgrade to a bus-hogging DMA controller. > Ah...bus mastering controllers! So unpredictable. Does anyone know how these on-board IDE/IO asics are bussed to the system? If they're bridged they could have secondary interrupts or something..... I would disable the on-board uart and try the same AST board you used before successfully just to see if it works.. Many of those IO asics emulate 16550s but they're not as good. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 15:14:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25274 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:14:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25269 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:14:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA06514; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:13:59 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:13:59 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199512152313.SAA06514@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: dave@kachina.jetcafe.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd mbone conference? Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers References: <4asulm$18nb@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: >"Amancio Hasty Jr." writes: >>Is anyone interested in having an informal video/audio conference this >>weekend? If so , just send me e-mail and if there is enough >>interest, I will announce the date / time both on the list and >>on sd. >I can do it, depending on time. >I'd still like to talk about high quality audio over the MBONE. Im suprised no one has hacked the MPEG codec into vat, mpeg layer 2 or layer 3 compression incredibly small, yet the resulting data stream sounds wonderful. -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 15:25:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25878 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from kachina.jetcafe.org ([206.117.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25871 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:25:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([127.0.0.1]) by kachina.jetcafe.org (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA12993; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:23:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199512152323.PAA12993@kachina.jetcafe.org> To: Charles Henrich cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd mbone conference? Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:23:55 -0800 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Charles Henrich writes: >Im suprised no one has hacked the MPEG codec into vat, mpeg layer 2 or layer 3 >compression incredibly small, yet the resulting data stream sounds >wonderful. Gee, Van and company finally decided to release source code. Is there code out there for an "MPEG codec"? Would someone be reinventing the wheel for doing this? ------ >>> Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org <<< A wise man listens to the words unsaid. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 15:29:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA26130 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from westhill.cdrom.com (westhill.cdrom.com [192.216.223.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA26123 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:29:00 -0800 (PST) From: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by westhill.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA15307 ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:28:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: westhill.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Frank ten Wolde" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:02:16 +0100." <9512151302.ZM27077@pwood1.pinewood.nl> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:28:46 -0800 Message-ID: <15305.819070126@westhill.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Frank ten Wolde" wrote in message ID <9512151302.ZM27077@pwood1.pinewood.nl>: > 1) I would suggest adding the following lines of code in > .../sys/netinet/ip_fw.c, line 879: > > ifdef IPFIREWALL > int > ip_fw_ctl(stage, m) > int stage; > struct mbuf *m; > { > > if (securelevel >= 2) { NEW > return (EPERM); NEW > } NEW > if (stage == IP_FW_FLUSH) { > free_fw_chain(&ip_fw_chain); > return (0); > } > ... > This would prevent any changes in the fw chain when running in > very secure level. Nice idea, but running at secure levels >>0 is not something I want to look at yet. If nothing else, the only reason I would do it would be to set the sappend flag on the log files to prevent people tinkering with them, but how would you rotate them? :-( Taking the machine offline is NOT an option. > 2) I noticed that the order in which the fw checks incoming packets is > *not* the same as the order in which the packet rules were added. > IMHO this should be fixed. I have not had the time (yet) to have > a look at the source myself, but will do so in the next few weeks. This is documented, and I have to agree with the authors idea that most people do NOT know what they are doing when playing with the firewall stuff and need some handholding. He does agree with me, however, that we need an ``I know what I'm doing'' flag which inserts the rules into the chain in the order they are submitted. > 3) I would suggest modifying ipfw.c to give some more informative > message if the setsockopt call fails. Now it only lists something > like "getsockopt failed", but it does not give you the reason. > A simple perror("") would do the trick I suppose. I will try and > have a look at the source code in the near future. Definately. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 16:01:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA28088 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:01:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA28080 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA00609; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:01:00 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199512160001.TAA00609@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: freebsd mbone conference? To: dave@kachina.jetcafe.org (Dave Hayes) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:00:59 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512152323.PAA12993@kachina.jetcafe.org> from "Dave Hayes" at Dec 15, 95 03:23:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Im suprised no one has hacked the MPEG codec into vat, mpeg layer 2 or layer 3 > >compression incredibly small, yet the resulting data stream sounds > >wonderful. > > Gee, Van and company finally decided to release source code. Is there > code out there for an "MPEG codec"? Would someone be reinventing the > wheel for doing this? You can get the source code to the mpeg layer 3 decoder from ftp.fhg.de. I havent seen the source code for an encoder, although it should be reverseable from the decoder.. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 16:22:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29554 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29546 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:22:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA02837; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 01:22:58 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA05654 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 16 Dec 1995 01:22:32 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA18587 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Fri, 15 Dec 1995 23:57:43 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA01830; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:50:34 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199512151950.UAA01830@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:50:34 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512151554.IAA16324@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 15, 95 08:54:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I also have the impression the UUCP datarate is now slower than > > before. > > > > This is a 14K4 modem BTW, on a 57600 baud line. > > I hate to sound like a broken record, but are you *sure* you're using > flow-control? Can you use stty on the connected end to make sure? > > Nate I don't think I changed anything when moving to the new MB but: bash# stty -a -f /dev/cuaa0 speed 57600 baud; 0 rows; 0 columns; lflags: -icanon -isig -iexten -echo -echoe -echok -echoke -echonl -echoctl -echoprt -altwerase -noflsh -tostop -flusho -pendin -nokerninfo -extproc iflags: -istrip -icrnl -inlcr -igncr -ixon -ixoff -ixany -imaxbel -ignbrk -brkint -inpck -ignpar -parmrk oflags: -opost -onlcr -oxtabs cflags: cread cs8 -parenb -parodd hupcl -clocal -cstopb crtscts -dsrflow -dtrflow -mdmbuf cchars: discard = ^O; dsusp = ^Y; eof = ^D; eol = ; eol2 = ; erase = ^?; intr = ^C; kill = ^U; lnext = ^V; min = 22; quit = ^\; reprint = ^R; start = ^Q; status = ; stop = ^S; susp = ^Z; time = 1; werase = ^W; bash# _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 16:50:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA01696 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:50:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.aic.net (nic.aic.net [194.67.30.68]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01630 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:49:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ran@localhost) by nic.aic.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA05001; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 04:52:23 +0400 From: Ran Message-Id: <199512160052.EAA05001@nic.aic.net> Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 04:52:23 +0400 (BSK) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512152328.SAA14493@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Dec 15, 95 06:28:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >>> After I switched to a Asus P55TP4XE 90Mc I see things like > >>> > >>> sio0: 5 more silo overflows (total 7) > >>> > >>> The Asus supposedly has 16550A UARTs, of which I use one. > >>> > >>> On my previous MB, a 25Mc 486DX > >>> I used an AST/4 with 16550A chips without a single silo overflow. > >>> I also have the impression the UUCP datarate is now slower than > >>> before. > >>> > >>> This is a 14K4 modem BTW, on a 57600 baud line. > > > >>I hate to sound like a broken record, but are you *sure* you're using > >>flow-control? Can you use stty on the connected end to make sure? > > > >Er, flow control has no effect on silo overflows. > > > >Perhaps the problem is a downgrade to a bus-hogging DMA controller. > > > > Ah...bus mastering controllers! So unpredictable. > > Does anyone know how these on-board IDE/IO asics are bussed to the system? > If they're bridged they could have secondary interrupts or something..... > > I would disable the on-board uart and try the same AST board you used before > successfully just to see if it works.. Many of those IO asics emulate 16550s > but they're > not as good. > > Dennis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 > > disable irq on your videocard or replace it. hrant. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 17:09:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA02916 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:09:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from multivac.orthanc.com (root@multivac.orthanc.com [204.244.20.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02905 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (lyndon@localhost) by multivac.orthanc.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id RAA11261; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:08:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199512160108.RAA11261@multivac.orthanc.com> X-Authentication-Warning: multivac.orthanc.com: Host lyndon@localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TCP) To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:50:22 +0100." <199512151950.UAA00783@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:08:26 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Luigi" == Luigi Rizzo writes: Luigi> Priorities are nice, but kind of hard to Luigi> implement. Moreover, an ordering between rules with the Luigi> same priority is still required to achieve a deterministic Luigi> *and* easili predictable behaviour. Yes! Luigi> Whenever I need, I modify the script and re-run it. Sure, Luigi> there is a hole in between the two commands where unwanted Luigi> connections might get in, but the probability is quite low Luigi> *and* a simple change to the 'flush' command can allow the Luigi> firewall to set the default policy as well. This could be worked around by implementing locks around the filter updates. Something like: ipfw lock # temporarily block everything [ make updates] ipfw commit # make new rules live Luigi> All in all, I would just try to make additions to the Luigi> firewall chain be stored in the same order as they are Luigi> made. Yes! The interface must be simple and easily understood lest people get chomped on by unintended surprises. (Cheswick and Bellovin explain this well in their book.) It would also be nice if the software and documentation agreed on the point where a packet falls out due to a positive or negative match on the filtering rules. --lyndon From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 18:37:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA07875 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA07870 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:37:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA27724; Fri, 15 Dec 95 21:37:03 -0500 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id CAA10865; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 02:37:02 GMT Message-Id: <199512160237.CAA10865@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: growing X server processes In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 15 Dec 1995 11:03:07 EDT. <199512151903.LAA04166@rah.star-gate.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 21:37:01 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I guess that it should be interesting to find out exactly what is the > case or the profile that Kaleb mentioned in another posting. I don't know the details about what they did. Perhaps David Dawes, who I know follows this list, might elaborate; but I know that they're in the midst of their beta, compounded by the holiday, so now might not be the best time to get an answer. I expect that it's simply the case that they noticed observed patterns in the memory allocation profile, and they optimized the Xalloc allocator to do better for the most common allocation scenarios. I'm not at liberty to disclose their sources, you'll have to wait for them to release 3.1.3 to see what they did. -- Kaleb From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 19:26:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA10627 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA10618 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:26:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA07793; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:24:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199512160324.TAA07793@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Charles Henrich cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@star-gate.com Subject: Re: freebsd mbone conference? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:13:59 EST." <199512152313.SAA06514@crh.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:24:02 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Charles Henrich said: > In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: > > >"Amancio Hasty Jr." writes: > >>Is anyone interested in having an informal video/audio conference this > >>weekend? If so , just send me e-mail and if there is enough > >>interest, I will announce the date / time both on the list and > >>on sd. > > >I can do it, depending on time. > > >I'd still like to talk about high quality audio over the MBONE. > > Im suprised no one has hacked the MPEG codec into vat, mpeg layer 2 or layer 3 > compression incredibly small, yet the resulting data stream sounds wonderful . I have the berkeley mpeg encoder if anyone is interested it was ported by Jim Lowe . The problem with mpeg is that encoding can't be done at least so far in real time so an mpeg encoder for vat is not that practical however sending out mpeg audio streams using rtp and playing back the audio with at least a P90 is indeed practical. And with hack our brains out we can send mpeg streams with an bit rate of less than 28.8 kilobits/second . A good example of this type of setup is Xing's StreamWorks and their clients and BTW the linux binaries work on FreeBSD provided that you have my mods to the linux module to handle audio. mpeg is great and cool however with fractal data compression at least for video one can expect somewhere around 480:1 and with mpeg about 200:1 so guess what I am thinking about 8) The December issue of Dr Dobbs has a nice article on Fractal data compression perhaps one of our math wizards can take a look at the article an comment on it ... The other nice thing about fractal data compression is that is scalable and next year we will have plenty of horse power by way multimedia chipsets to do stuff like fractal codes so don't forget it helps to have at least a working software model 8) Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 19:27:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA10682 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:27:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA10675 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:27:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA07843; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:27:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199512160327.TAA07843@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Stephen Hocking cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Realaudio Server for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:23:51 GMT." <199512150023.AAA03049@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:27:10 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Wow , NAS already has support for data compression/decompression and can work at low bitstreams say less than 28.8 kilobits/second? Great where can I pick up the code ? 8) On a different note, we should not be blasting commercial products is up to them to stand up against the competition. Enjoy, Amancio >>> Stephen Hocking said: > > >>After some fussing around with the RealAudio people, they eventually told me=20 > >>last month there would be a port of the RealAudio server for FreeBSD machi nes. > >>It was with great joy I found out at their web page that it was coming ind eed > >>for version 2.0... This is good news, since the old BSDi version didn't du mped > >>core under the compatibility mode... > >> > >>Just though someone would be happy to know this :-) I know I am... > >> > > Of course, NAS is functionally equivalent as far as I can work out, > and is already available for a number of platforms including FreeBSD & Linux . > Why bother? > > > Stephen > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 20:28:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA15434 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA15429 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:28:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA29683; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:27:21 -0800 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: Hubbard's article in BYTE In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:19:42 +0100." <199512152119.WAA02426@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:27:20 -0800 Message-ID: <29681.819088040@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Lars Gerhard K=FChl has been writing an excellent article for the German > UNIXopen magazine. I've read it today, and it looked very well! > (Danke, Lars!) Wirklich? Geil! Can I somehow get a copy? That would be really useful for my collection! If you or anyone else could FAX me a copy, that'd be great too. My fax # is 510-674-0821 Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 21:05:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA17488 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 21:05:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA17480 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 21:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA16774 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:05:05 +1100 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199512160505.QAA16774@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: growing X server processes To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:05:04 +1100 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199512160237.CAA10865@exalt.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Dec 15, 95 09:37:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> I guess that it should be interesting to find out exactly what is the >> case or the profile that Kaleb mentioned in another posting. > >I don't know the details about what they did. Perhaps David Dawes, >who I know follows this list, might elaborate; but I know that they're >in the midst of their beta, compounded by the holiday, so now might not >be the best time to get an answer. > >I expect that it's simply the case that they noticed observed patterns in >the memory allocation profile, and they optimized the Xalloc allocator >to do better for the most common allocation scenarios. I'm not at liberty >to disclose their sources, you'll have to wait for them to release 3.1.3 >to see what they did. The Xalloc code we're using is in the 3.1.2 release, it just wasn't enabled by default there. Take a look at the file xc/programs/Xserver/os/xalloc.c in the XFree86 3.1.2 source. The comment block in that file gives a description of what is being done. It is designed specifically for the X server's memory allocation requirements. It is not used by the X clients, and is not intended as a general purpose malloc (in fact is makes use of the system's malloc). David From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 22:04:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA19527 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA19521 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 22:04:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <22474-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:04:13 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id QAA07960 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:10:00 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id GAA17913 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 06:06:37 GMT Message-Id: <199512160606.GAA17913@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Order of rules in ip_fw chain X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:06:36 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk A local user (Dave Conran) pointed this problem out to me, and has supplied the changes below. He too was irritated because the re-ordering did not preserve the semantics of the rules that he wanted. begin 644 ip_fw.c.gz M'XL("#QPQC`"`VEP7V9W+F,`[3S]=]O(C3]+?\4DVR22(\MVDK97:^T^KV5O M?'5L/W]L;N^:QU+D2&+-K_+#BKOU_>T%,!^<(2E93M+KW;WNVTCB#`;`8``, M@!EZ:Z/+-MAADMYGP6Q>L)[79SN_^]U;-G;C@(?LAZ0,>=$*\X[=S'C,_GUX M-3R(BSP(^5W@S0$4H2^Y'^1%%DS*(DABYL8^*W/.@ICE29EYG$V3+,H';!$4 M<^K%'TE9L"CQ@VG@N3AL@)CO7ED\ M`UCF@D!XSI(IM=P&L2^Q=7YUXN^R('6FBZ$WN&,[PYUWPW?#'5S-7V]M_W;K MS5NV_>O==V]WW_V6^2[0F;&CSRG[%8S=ZG:WB*.3*`TY2?KD@J6N=\L+-H4% M6+AA*."^"V(O+'W.OL_O\ZW4S=QH.-^O-<._HJ4Y`BR)U](^*:?-5C^)W"!N MMH.0BB1?M%!-D-]F.\^R.&DV%T'$FZVW/(MYB.U&1\R+K:#&(K;!8A:\"1L0 M?-R`E^U.BWAT;]K>7GA+.DH_78;)";QH>>=T(1F?^GP*RWU\#TU!D? M_7#S8_<[:`50YJ>@R<5TI^?V.QWQ&W[6N]_TW)V!^\8`H<_YH!<7R3SLN8@Y22C)RLY%;>'-PD)-[:K[C7I%D`R%V+* M+U^*;_F,O3N?Q(@:TLX#_!,4V>8>>X--<@A[+9X!8C&'K1R6E^`V-]D^VZ[H MJ^F^?LWV!+VEE.!_V4BB'W4?EBX?;((@+;D+NI['4]CK&TLV5-M+3;VZM'[D MKQQO?MN+8'M.8;F"Z8!Y<]@@0+RPDY<>1!>PC;"-:*0;@I1M!*GQ/`7?QS9@ MK`D#F-D&H:*5R_@,@@F>,1O`&`*^>.YG;`.^V1[KU5K[K-0"6)YY`^;G8"K0'QA&`!T.Z>@>VR8(_60`39U40:1D,R#PC,4)2"V_ MCZ%C!WQ+!Q2H@U&(L'E:$S1Z'J7%/'F"Q8%&K)GBPUPK$,$M04[T M/".^29R"6R%`7*^@>)6KI0(*K@]!>6[P#(;*GE5K13H*;<#%E'0R#`0K>N=_ M?B'(/2<-A]`9.%`S3\F7>2XD*B<7%Y?GU^?.]>'%+N"MAD.#&-LQE!JWPKP' MBKJY7\R=G-PB@AB:;H/X&@0GH5K1U><@^^OWSM7/9SB?CJ'^VR,0*/O(V<;X M?`-T#A(-@&*#.SQ`8ND(,X(%//[H'.,,D,X$U.=V5)O=S;@V.VA8-COP M.YO[Y''TQ>WO2>4\N+DCT?D+^"%8)/I[A/>0MJ!#9Q MPP[AEF%A8TSW7OB$3BUW$P]L)R::!Z4Y&(94^MX?61:3HKLP-(;][6^LK0OF M+W;+BJ5=P9&2=G\)31#U-Z>IEL^BB4KPQQA5`(P&&@1D]=H6223Z%I51_IBUIW,(-N M1TFJ!K2YG[O.U(T"V`:!U`$L^MG1M1)/QTMBR'Q+/I)48"9*&_<,G"J&PE(" M=CJPHV[T:Z3Z?2`FPR*)9%0Q;Z$VE[HNNK8UHR!>?(@5LW98+#D-XH0]AT'/ M7^ED:`"+"!`BR):#U'QQF\6H`66L(R*LJF5BG>4R&^+1#*%[[:BXK@5$@+#PDW(V@T`Q5P4[U'#81A4\;L$81MV,4P8JBMM*)1.LU07P'7-@5(U8 M)-GM`&MZFH2H]KDH8(]#U)1,%:PNY,FX#$)$6^(!SYNVU298\/BX^4/NIR($ MJ3+5,M4D<95R#RNK%<%-&7J]HJIBD7A)R*(R+VS_IL`Q#JLQ)I>3UM6RSMHZ MDQ0MPS22[9=B>FF1@Y=4;BS.TVI3'%0#VT1Q=7GV8U\Y2()JQZXQ5U3\M-H& M'Z$R1BI]/...C MLY^%**=F5BK2Z+[8!+I2QA/7=P3]D5E3D*F(7H'=EK+33T>7/YQ?'6F)P?// MK)R!B:8!]TA07N(K:]3V&[FW(&E1Y97E-CPF(!0^CP,CO[,FVZ8V%Y=G5?&D M#>#@\/#HXIJ,5U7V#DBT,@ZGDIC1.>:0W]$A;FM&H`=4 M"<&2`2INUR,>"=LK-$:(K@>W1NC5D(=NI[,D'/_2V-BD#H%Q+1;775((2^+R M;T?<#,IUEPC(8?:R"KJ&,ME64MG0KARLDV;2&=HE0+O'Z!\*L>ME/`5;P!0< MBT65P@]W^[@S0H=L$T.5_:/WH-A!'TNA+\K1O<'.;F#&G7;851L*Q72-``'! M94A'D6][Y`Y`EQ>GRC='SC3C/.I%0G?L$J10H:7!"$4JJ*X\RY(,"XF(W+DY MNSPZ.'QO/SGOSZ^N!VS[%/Y9EKHV@HOS2PM!C57@U)I+O9@JE$$&3Y77LVND MH!'7W;LD\*E`"DZ[<+RXZ-GUT0&+YPX$#G?]KZB+BO*WP/-_KTKZ/UGCI/JF M[*`:9\;OQ./*"J3J?K1,]X0*W5-*:&L7R[Y-8>S)5:Q_5L5J[4+4(Y6FI]1; M=$CQ)147Z4TA=_C2B@OY5:FS*A:F7%@'PP_:I[=X[!].QB>7?:/PL_XL*CZ0 M\).F4-'H6W/8636'*IVJ^G:-'?,CIWLM%('G;L1%0(D+21FX"+WQG@=FG+$8 MHT\=5'*ZR-`_X2T8/X'($[=@'S*%$JP-D`\FW'/%Y1DQ/DIRC,5SCBC!P[H^ M1K)5;3W%5TH=G'._,)`+!A&[+I"$O>(C77!897JZ)[=VX7DUK*>,\ M7DOK/E(/JR'%G:Q>-$%!JOR4B^5=6NEP=\;%935 M=;*V,ME75,F(6*U(AI'H.A6QUDI"LQZVHAS&UJV'/:D*8*M7P,CW1"%#8CF7K\FP[D,\NK0,"DA&I.0 M6ED)8G)?<-$_P!I8+!P#"@(H%^)@;HX>IE#*#)$?%KG$R"3S>3;P\61N6-/M M*HC4[$V`/;Q:('9;&3F$/!:QN8J8:\`5F&5WYDS6+V95M6O#\XI:EL%ZO9*E M=7-5*>M+*UEK%;*^LH[U6!G+G$(/]L$^A0-K368]0E\WF?4$)B>CBW+KF43' MJ(NN:14:UK2.=KO0H-(^JHIITT;6LQ+#3E9;RM+ZX[+R8WOU<67QL9%V8H)) MCB8OW`(P8*[9_2O/$G$;!^)8D<^D1=9OS1SI[M0OC:Z"+JQ4$/I>$O58U0ML MT2N/06DX,ELG]5;$JSK1U5/T_6#/`//N-69@3P$SX)Q2)2"1IR$H2`_74'*N M@6WV:^DQ<$8[[E1P:E#H="H,X*MJ4^@@RSUL';`/SLG%\4=YL`N,?.[E_9$Q M16`4XUF'MC8]NP%M.JOF6.<5P%O63DRAL=9B/K*VV]()OI?B<0DAL_8(XW8' MU7``O]'WX.^J/W9R=P"?/GPF]#M1OR/Z'6%O3I]^9*3BT)A18T;`]$E1B0)( M0A_O3@,,7^`/6>(`N4W>R=2'2AY.@FA4!:1E_;MJ+<7EYEX>_)4G4ZOJW5=K MAM_C\[/KCPWWHIPETGTD(8$/N00LFA8+;\N,/6.SLZO M+@ZE>DR\)+WOX5(.F-">-OX0>%JWLU.S<5(U&JT42JDU%=,QE-B<4UVWD;MJ MZV_3$!$>*\6JU)2))ATG*PCZMG)H=0W7.#.XNKX\.;P^OQP?75(48"PWW<<1 MNF#:WY(33ZD^%MTV4!T]2Q7UA'WO:1\D\\ MNV=W^+%Q\^/ISQN4V`Z'>(:49?=TX!FPN4N[I*\B1;QN-Z1#$;WMH7W*@:[%6>#\`)^TOR9"/1J5PA=?JB$QV3>^EX4"I%M*+&\UF MRD@BWB=R,D8A`X!XR@;YO@&RN5EID:3O"T**4T6_WFS3]P5]?P5]7]#W5]-7 M#!"@21H1B#1?E<&4K&A.II1PKGV;P55F:IEAR]E"VVR40]G3`Y&C%B3B+&D5 M&3Q2TL&P$>&^E^?#+*+;LCYWL>J$X>V<>[?8HT'1]V,UB:JD=`%=GH[2B3)L M$AK22S!3Q0*8/CCU$[RJ2D@U&(P+,D9W%.G6*_LS)F5TRQ48B>DVIP0%LH(B M]-Z+"XYT(=8M6&C"X4`!F>-)5![$LU!<_\\A4ZYB=7%CE-XMJP;,$A:Z6!%C M9Q6H&`MT,),L,N[B09:+=S@$0_(&AZCL?`ZB,F)Q&4UXID25&[%^%>POV2(H M-9+Q/$8AYF:".='.)\AFK9;M3\U,0(ZLB$`2U6>_U^]G,&;VL%UV<_7^\MKY MLK;DM`>BF&?]<1B@Z3I*/(*%O1-OW:##N6R#-*ZI);?0J!(TQL] M;@%CRP+\A@4@?Z]9TPZ@O=42_)HE^$LMP7^R)8PM2_";EH`BDLPV.EHMPJ]; MA+_<(NK\&KKN"X/P5QJ$+PS";S>(:M%V:U<+<;0(??7K/X:81"AI9;%6E&F& M_E,=;3:R`B,2M:[OM>4"CXVG3R/7T=G.M@P+U-V)9=&P.K%JF6#WTH<;!U[O^2&]Q2%\!>9EWRF-:$Y5,6JF[CIUVV[D\3X/ M_X%Y_(!MA&*.*BTNT$WM#,3W&_B.4G!AZBA;EHH&;.'FSC0I==J\*B_>,,L\ M3\EX[==_5F6\)V<_'9S*C#>T*A&:497DR6K-M%%G4F4P>61H^3?C`!/&H$#K MS?H62TMZ8XTQFIMCC'3")F2TMU!:,LI?.A!37AX)B.J)$A6 M*52IMB&#+S7=M89[PPR$$DX_"CAZET;@!.IB5!M=[C0T0-P31_679+/DT]3:'7W#.FSH M;(>TO>ZRK+KADLIA1Y<@P\8(RUNO+$H^BMRJ;\KC/`.[M%6]"4RK9XO.@^TO MA1O10C)NQ*%,I>]M.`?;L7IA]K_9^A*>`*+'6ZKWI`MY: M+@!&[;WPT:W`M%_XX`(&3*$;2'U==B"@9T>V+V1"B>\>BXK$Q^NOM:O]BN&> MJ?*0;/VWRK;H)J.A:-5;BP;/9:Q>5:#7=28!I,UX_:9'+]#NO?C$N#E#.+M2Y&E(UN8J<=4;L7K[6VL84WD"U@;-UGS'V,- M;X'66:,3_66L^2M96^%I('.L&?X*-<0_?131B_M4!.F]\%^_\/M+9#58ASW( MQMCV:OGA`4R_>=]\^7:)?[:)@P#1^Y5Q7J;(+:BA>$T,B`3QK+Z)&AS)Q$[V M"`-^J%_6QM!#7]4N0K`Z=\;!)OLRC\+'4:M_P*E2MYP2HG..3V^NWLMW;:PS M[9>:"/V)#)/E;6.!&PC_\^CR7."S3_F_$-W!>$P;(_F9>N?XZ'1YY^'II;RJ MT^X8JZ6G-+_I9/O6_<:&IS;>L"':UNLUFOE=3#? M0'\RYI8]UO@[2\V_%=/5)OT5QH7^8I5IJ8>EEA#9\;EZU\=T-W2#EYB`T'YE M<-["W<7YZM!^@VG7FU\O]JY+QSU#D(+ M@QWK-<"])AM6Y/2@W]>C^8+R!;I+]')_Y. M2)%4=P)%=@.^&LP*_ZK9[!6/NO*,ID5BRUP1=(&=_A-]C>!MA:=1RM;F)@3W @*[Q,V^!OZ"*T-G]C![$VWJ7NH?75J;\#?X#9VQ%3``!] ` end -- I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - They don't pay me enough for that! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 15 23:26:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA21794 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 23:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA21789 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 1995 23:26:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Sat, 16 Dec 95 07:26 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA09920; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:11:30 +0100 Message-Id: <199512160711.IAA09920@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Hubbard's article in BYTE To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:11:30 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <29681.819088040@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 15, 95 08:27:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > Lars Gerhard K=FChl has been writing an excellent article for the German ^^^ It's you! Or your mailer: the copy I got of the original message didn't have this junk in it. > > UNIXopen magazine. I've read it today, and it looked very well! > > (Danke, Lars!) > > Wirklich? Geil! Can I somehow get a copy? That would be really > useful for my collection! If you or anyone else could FAX me a copy, > that'd be great too. My fax # is 510-674-0821 I'll send you a copy. For some reason, I get 3 copies of every issue. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 00:18:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA23774 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA23769 Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA01303; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:18:45 -0800 To: bde@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Does the man page for sio need updating for Cyclades? Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:18:45 -0800 Message-ID: <1301.819101925@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I notice that it mentions: Generic serial cards AST multiport serial cards BOCA multiport serial cards And only AST and BOCA have `options COM_MULTIPORT' suggested. I just checked the Cyclades driver, however, and it also uses COM_MULTIPORT, which sort of suggests that it's not the generic card entry you'd use. I therefore am wondering if you perhaps forgot to update the man page when you imported the cyclades driver? Or is it easier than I'm led to believe? I'm certainly willing to be told if I'm chasing wild geese here! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 00:52:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA25268 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:52:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA25261 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:52:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA27880 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:51:58 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA07410 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:51:58 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA02650 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:35:55 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512160835.JAA02650@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Hubbard's article in BYTE To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:35:55 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <29681.819088040@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 15, 95 08:27:20 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Lars Gerhard K=FChl has been writing an excellent article for the German > > UNIXopen magazine. I've read it today, and it looked very well! > > (Danke, Lars!) > > Wirklich? Geil! Can I somehow get a copy? I could fax you a copy, but perhaps Lars is also able to give out an on-line copy? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 02:03:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA28946 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 02:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA28932 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 02:03:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id LAA26147; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 11:00:25 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA00374; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:50:28 +0100 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:50:28 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Hubbard's article in BYTE In-Reply-To: <199512152119.WAA02426@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Dec 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > Lars Gerhard K=FChl has been writing an excellent article for the German > UNIXopen magazine. I've read it today, and it looked very well! > (Danke, Lars!) Is this article already published ? =09Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 03:48:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA07291 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 03:48:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA07266 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 03:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id UAA19634; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 20:47:27 +0900 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 20:47:27 +0900 Message-Id: <199512161147.UAA19634@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Status Report: sys/pccard From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I and the members of BSD-nomads mailing list (Japan) is working on sys/pccard stuff of FreeBSD. We will release easy-installation package of pccard for FreeBSD within a few weeks. This is the status report of this work. We're testing it on these cards. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Card Status Driver -------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Creditcard Ethernet I Hotplug OK ed IBM Creditcard Ethernet II Hotplug OK ed 3Com Etherlink III 3C589B Hotplug OK ep 3Com Etherlink III 3C589C Hotplug OK ep Farallon Etherwave/EtherMac Hotplug OK ep Megahertz XJACK XJ2144 Hotplug OK sio Megahertz XJACK XJ2288 NG sio TDK DF1414 Hotplug OK sio Hayes OPTIMA 288 NG sio Adaptec SlimSCSI Hotplug OK aic Ratoc REX-5535AC SCSI OK spc (scratch) Ratoc REX-5535X SCSI OK spc (scratch) SunDisk Flash ATA SPD5-5 NG wd -------------------------------------------------------------------- Please wait for alpha-release! -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 04:16:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA08998 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 04:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA08993 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 04:16:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id BAA07076; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 01:40:39 -1000 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 01:40:39 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199512161140.BAA07076@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." "Re: Realaudio Server for FreeBSD" (Dec 15, 7:27pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Realaudio Server for FreeBSD Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk } } On a different note, we should not be blasting commercial products is up to } them to stand up against the competition. } Commercial products are fine. Proprietary protocols and formats are diabolical. National Public Radio (NPR) provides radio shows online -- but they only support RealAudio! That's horrendous. One company in control of which machines can participate. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 06:20:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA13777 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 06:20:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13718 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 06:19:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA04321; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:19:45 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA02434 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:19:38 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA24928 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:24:10 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA03205; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:05:04 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199512152305.AAA03205@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: sio overruns on 2.0.5R To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:05:04 +0100 (MET) Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199512151859.FAA26342@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Dec 16, 95 05:59:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> > >> sio0: 5 more silo overflows (total 7) > >> > >> The Asus supposedly has 16550A UARTs, of which I use one. > >> > >> On my previous MB, a 25Mc 486DX > >> I used an AST/4 with 16550A chips without a single silo overflow. > >> I also have the impression the UUCP datarate is now slower than > >> before. > >> > >> This is a 14K4 modem BTW, on a 57600 baud line. > > >I hate to sound like a broken record, but are you *sure* you're using > >flow-control? Can you use stty on the connected end to make sure? > > Er, flow control has no effect on silo overflows. > > Perhaps the problem is a downgrade to a bus-hogging DMA controller. > > Bruce Time for some more data: it is 205R, and two SCSI-1 Micropolis (1x 300, 1x670 Mb) on an NCR810. And a PCI 928 S3 vga card. I see no hog here... Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 07:30:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA15864 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 07:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA15859 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 07:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA00317; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:26:31 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199512161526.QAA00317@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: meteor driver bug To: james@miller.cs.uwm.edu (Jim Lowe) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:26:30 +0100 (MET) Cc: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512111637.KAA18548@miller.cs.uwm.edu> from "Jim Lowe" at Dec 11, 95 10:37:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I finally got a copy of the data sheets for the Philips video chipset used in the meteor. I found out one bug in the current driver. Also I have some suggestions for the driver. I might be able to work on them after the 22nd, unless you do it first. I would also like to make some cosmetic changes to the driver in order to remove some NTSC-related magic numbers that are spread over the code. ******************** meteor.c [driver] ******************************** BUG: around line 1072 of the driver, the following code: *p++ = buf; /* even y or even RGB */ /* set end of buffer location */ *(p+36) = *(p+35) = buf + mtr->alloc_pages * PAGE_SIZE; the last line should read *(p+34) = *(p+35) = buf + mtr->alloc_pages * PAGE_SIZE; as the pointer (p) has been already incremented. Due to this bug, we are going to write past the end of the 7116 registers, with unknown effects. FEATURE: at offset 0x3c in the 7116, it would be preferable to set the "Field Toggle" bit. This enables the 7116 to simulate the presence of an interlaced image even with non-interlaced images. It should help with VTRs and should not harm otherwise. Thus I would change the init value from /* 0x3c */ 0x00000103, /* 9:8 *RW Reserved (0x0) to /* 0x3c */ 0x00000107, /* 9:8 *RW Reserved (0x0) FEATURE: the 'correct' values for regs 01-05 of the 7196, according to the data sheets, should be the following: /* 01 */ 0x30, /* 7:0 Horizontal Sync Begin for 50hz */ /* 02 */ 0x00, /* 7:0 Horizontal Sync Stop for 50hz */ /* 03 */ 0xe8, /* 7:0 Horizontal Sync Clamp Start for 50hz */ /* 04 */ 0xb6, /* 7:0 Horizontal Sync Clamp Stop for 50hz */ /* 05 */ 0xf4, /* 7:0 Horizontal Sync Start after PH1 for 50hz */ I tried them with a 50Hz PAL camera, and they seem to work fine. They could replace my previous suggestion. PROPOSAL: whith moving images, mixing samples from two frames produces a very unpleasant visual effect (basically, one frame is shifted with respect to the previous one). Moreover, this mix produces (spatial) high frequency components which make the compression algorithms work less efficiently. My proposal is to acquire single frames by default, and use both frames only in the case of the highest resolution images (e.g. 640x480 or 768x576). This can be done without loss of resolution. It requires some simple changes to the METEORSETGEO ioctl, and possibly to the interrupt handling routine. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 08:50:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19097 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:50:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19092 Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA04137; Sun, 17 Dec 1995 03:48:40 +1100 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 03:48:40 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199512161648.DAA04137@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Does the man page for sio need updating for Cyclades? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I notice that it mentions: > Generic serial cards > AST multiport serial cards > BOCA multiport serial cards That's because the cyclades driver isn't sio. Try `man cy'. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 08:53:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19187 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:53:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19179 Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:53:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA05422; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:53:14 -0800 To: Bruce Evans cc: bde@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Does the man page for sio need updating for Cyclades? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Dec 1995 03:48:40 +1100." <199512161648.DAA04137@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:53:14 -0800 Message-ID: <5420.819132794@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >I notice that it mentions: > > > Generic serial cards > > AST multiport serial cards > > BOCA multiport serial cards > > That's because the cyclades driver isn't sio. Try `man cy'. Whoops! So much for giving people the right information! Gary, I guess we'd better get back on IRC and straighten that guy out! ;-( Apologies for the confusion.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 09:49:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA21097 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21090 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:49:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA07698 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:51:25 +0100 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:51:25 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199512161751.SAA07698@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: lost console Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I read about lost console a couple of days ago but I didn't read very deep, actually I skipped. Now it seems to have caught me: On a -current (14 days old) running PCVT I suddenly lost the capability of vt switching (xterms and X still running processes). I cannot switch to other consoles and cannot grab the X server again. What is the cause for this? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 10:06:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA21740 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:06:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA21734 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:06:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA09550; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:58:29 +0100 Message-Id: <199512161758.SAA09550@ra.dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: lost console To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph P. Kukulies) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:58:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512161751.SAA07698@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at Dec 16, 95 06:51:25 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Christoph P. Kukulies who wrote: > > I read about lost console a couple of days ago but I didn't > read very deep, actually I skipped. > Now it seems to have caught me: > On a -current (14 days old) running PCVT I suddenly > lost the capability of vt switching (xterms and X still > running processes). I cannot switch to other consoles > and cannot grab the X server again. AHaaa, and I thought I had a syscons bug !! It seems we should look for something more generic then.... > What is the cause for this? Currently I'm clueless, but I've seen it a couple of times here too I'm not running X that much since the Xaccel server still is unusable on my Diamond viper pro video :( :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 10:20:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA22239 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:20:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from infocom.com (tye.infocom.com [199.120.185.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22202 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daveho@localhost) by infocom.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA13722; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:16:40 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:16:39 -0500 (EST) From: David Hovemeyer To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: David Hovemeyer Subject: mmap and memory utilization Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Howdy all, I am writing a program that needs to do a lot of character at a time reading through regular files, both forwards and backwards. I decided to use mmap(2) rather than read(2) to implement this. My reasoning is that it is easier to do random access in memory than in a file. Also, I imagine that calling read(2) for reading single characters is inefficient in terms of system call overhead. I could use iostreams (it's a C++ program) to get buffering of reads, but iostreams are big and hairy, and still more awkward to use than memory for what I want to do. What I am wondering is What is the impact of mmap'ing a large file and then scanning linearly through it? Currently I am thinking of mmap'ing the entire file; if the file is approximately as large as physical memory, will this cause excessive paging? (I am assuming an infinite amount of virtual memory, but a limited amount of physical memory.) Will the program degrade the performance of other programs which are running? Would the mmap be likely to fail? In most cases I expect the mmap'ed file to be small (< 16K), but I want the program to be a "good citizen" under extreme conditions. I'm pretty clueless about the details of virtual memory and how it is implemented in FreeBSD. Hmm, I just noticed the madvise(2) man page: is this what I need to use? Maybe I could say MADV_DONTNEED to pages scanned past, and MADV_WILLNEED to pages about to be accessed? Any thoughts appreciated. Dave -- David Hovemeyer | aclawisaclawandnobodyhasseenatalking | http://infoco daveho@infocom.com | clawunlessthatclawisthefamousMr.Klaw | m.com/~daveho From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 10:28:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA22521 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22516 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 10:28:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA07811; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 19:29:53 +0100 Message-Id: <199512161829.TAA07811@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: lost console To: sos@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 19:29:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512161758.SAA09550@ra.dkuug.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at Dec 16, 95 06:58:29 pm From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In reply to Christoph P. Kukulies who wrote: > > > > I read about lost console a couple of days ago but I didn't > > read very deep, actually I skipped. > > Now it seems to have caught me: > > On a -current (14 days old) running PCVT I suddenly > > lost the capability of vt switching (xterms and X still > > running processes). I cannot switch to other consoles > > and cannot grab the X server again. > > AHaaa, and I thought I had a syscons bug !! > It seems we should look for something more generic then.... > > > What is the cause for this? > > Currently I'm clueless, but I've seen it a couple of times here too > I'm not running X that much since the Xaccel server still is unusable > on my Diamond viper pro video :( :( And I'm running (on this machine) the Xaccel server with a JPN Crystalspeed Mach8. /etc/ttys: ttyv0 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 on secure # Virtual terminals ttyv1 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 on secure ttyv2 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 on secure ttyv3 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 on secure ttyv4 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 on secure ttyv5 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 on secure ttyv6 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 on secure ttyv7 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 off secure # Serial terminals ttyd1 "/usr/libexec/getty std.57600" dialup on I don't know yet how to repeat the behaviour but it may have happened during console switching. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > So much code to hack -- so little time. > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 12:03:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28105 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:03:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA28100 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:03:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA00649; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:02:58 -0800 Message-Id: <199512162002.MAA00649@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Dave Hayes Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: freebsd mbone conference? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:25:39 PST." <199512152325.PAA13032@kachina.jetcafe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:02:56 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Cool, FreeBSD Lounge -- An Mbone channel to discuss FreeBSD related issues audio 224.2.187.164 50167/63859 (vat) video 224.2.187.164 42588/23997 (fmt vic2.7) whiteboard 224.2.187.164 45690/21764 Well, you need an mbone connection and a high speed net connection (56kb +). You can get vic2.7a31 from my ftp site: rah.star-gate.com:/pub/vic2.7a31.gz ee.lbl.gov:/conferencing vat,wb,sb -- If you have not upgraded your mrouted to 3.8 please save us a lot of headaches in the mbone and upgrade now: ftp://parcftp.xerox.com/pub/net-research/ipmulti/mrouted3.8-i386-bsd.tar.gz Transmissions starts around 12:00 am today so stop by and chat 8) I will be out most of the day however I shall be back in tonite. Take 1, Amancio >>> Dave Hayes said: > >The topic sounds good. So when is a good time for you? > > Well, Saturdays there are a bunch of musicians over here about 2, > so the 12Noon to 2PM (morning for us hackers) is good. > > Now is good as well. Why not create a "FreeBSD Lounge" and have people > stop by regularly? > ------ > >>> Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org <<< > > Nasrudin was asked "What effect did the banana diet have on your wife?" > > "Well," came the reply, "she isn't any thinner, but you should see her climb > trees!" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 12:20:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28844 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:20:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA28818 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA12686; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 21:20:05 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA12695; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 21:20:04 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA04049; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 21:03:49 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512162003.VAA04049@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Hubbard's article in BYTE To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 21:03:48 +0100 (MET) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Andreas Klemm" at Dec 16, 95 10:50:28 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Andreas Klemm wrote: > > Is this article already published ? Yes, UNIXopen 1/1996. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 12:31:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA29294 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:31:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from jau.csc.fi (root@jau.csc.fi [193.166.1.196]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA29286 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:31:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jau@localhost) by jau.csc.fi (8.6.12/8.6.12+CSC-2.1) id WAA07616 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 22:31:19 +0200 From: Jukka Ukkonen Message-Id: <199512162031.WAA07616@jau.csc.fi> Subject: rusers(3) & rnusers(3) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 22:31:17 +0200 (EET) Latin-Date: Simbata XVI Decembrie a.d. MCMXCV Organization: Private person Phone: +358-0-6215280 (home) Content-Conversion: prohibited X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello everybody! After getting a bit frustrated of not having the library routines rusers(3) and rnusers(3) available on FreeBSD I wrote them as well as the underlying xdr_utmpidlearr etc. I have tested them to work between FreeBSD and SunOS-4.1.4, and between FreeBSD and ConvexOS versions 11.0 and 10.1, and also between FreeBSD and Irix versions 6.1, 6.0.1, and 5.2. So, I am not making any claims about any other combinations. In the hope that some of you might be willing to test my rusers stuff against other combinations of OS's I attach it at the end of this message. And as the normal practise is ... "You can use it or abuse it, as long as you don't sell it, and you retain my name on it. If it breaks you get to keep all the pieces." BTW My rnusers() seems to return 0 for practically any computer you care to ask the number of users. On the other hand Sun's own version of rnusers() does the very same thing. This gives me a reason to believe it is Sun's own server code which has spread around to other platforms that is the culprit, not my rnusers(). Cheers, // jau ------ / Jukka A. Ukkonen, FUNET / Centre for Scientific Computing /__ M.Sc. (sw-eng & cs) Tel: (Home) +358-0-6215280 / Internet: ukkonen@csc.fi (Work) +358-0-4573208 / Internet: jau@funet.fi (Mobile) +358-400-606671 v X.400: c=fi, admd=fumail, no prmd, org=csc, pn=jukka.ukkonen # This is a shell archive. Save it in a file, remove anything before # this line, and then unpack it by entering "sh file". Note, it may # create directories; files and directories will be owned by you and # have default permissions. # # This archive contains: # # rusers.c # rusers.h # rusers_xdr.c # rnusers.c # echo x - rusers.c sed 's/^X//' >rusers.c << 'END-of-rusers.c' X X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X Xint Xrusers (host, user_arr) X char *host; X struct utmpidlearr *user_arr; X{ X register int failstat; X X if (!host || !*host || !user_arr) { X errno = EINVAL; X return (-1); X } X X memset (user_arr, '\0', sizeof (*user_arr)); X X if (failstat = callrpc (host, RUSERSPROG, X RUSERSVERS_IDLE, RUSERSPROC_NAMES, X xdr_void, NULL, xdr_utmpidlearr, user_arr)) { X clnt_perrno (failstat); X X return (-1); X } X X return (0); X} X END-of-rusers.c echo x - rusers.h sed 's/^X//' >rusers.h << 'END-of-rusers.h' X#define MAXUSERS 100 X#define MAXUTLEN 256 X Xstruct rutmp { X char *ut_line; X char *ut_name; X char *ut_host; X long ut_time; X}; Xtypedef struct rutmp rutmp; Xbool_t xdr_rutmp(); X X Xtypedef rutmp *utmpptr; Xbool_t xdr_utmpptr(); X X Xstruct utmparr { X utmpptr *uta_arr; X u_int uta_cnt; X}; Xtypedef struct utmparr utmparr; Xbool_t xdr_utmparr(); X X Xstruct utmpidle { X struct rutmp ui_utmp; X u_long ui_idle; X}; Xtypedef struct utmpidle utmpidle; Xbool_t xdr_utmpidle(); X X Xtypedef utmpidle *utmpidleptr; Xbool_t xdr_utmpidleptr(); X X Xstruct utmpidlearr { X utmpidleptr *uia_arr; X u_int uia_cnt; X}; Xtypedef struct utmpidlearr utmpidlearr; Xbool_t xdr_utmpidlearr(); X X X#define RUSERSPROG ((u_long)100002) X#define RUSERSVERS_ORIG ((u_long)1) X#define RUSERSPROC_NUM ((u_long)1) Xextern int *rusersproc_num_1(); X#define RUSERSPROC_NAMES ((u_long)2) Xextern utmparr *rusersproc_names_1(); X#define RUSERSPROC_ALLNAMES ((u_long)3) Xextern utmparr *rusersproc_allnames_1(); X#define RUSERSVERS_IDLE ((u_long)2) Xextern int *rusersproc_num_2(); Xextern utmpidlearr *rusersproc_names_2(); Xextern utmpidlearr *rusersproc_allnames_2(); X END-of-rusers.h echo x - rusers_xdr.c sed 's/^X//' >rusers_xdr.c << 'END-of-rusers_xdr.c' X#include X#include "rusers.h" X X Xbool_t Xxdr_rutmp(xdrs, objp) X XDR *xdrs; X rutmp *objp; X{ X unsigned int slen; X X if (! xdr_string (xdrs, &objp->ut_line, MAXUTLEN)) { X return (FALSE); X } X X if (! xdr_string (xdrs, &objp->ut_name, MAXUTLEN)) { X return (FALSE); X } X X if (! xdr_string (xdrs, &objp->ut_host, MAXUTLEN)) { X return (FALSE); X } X X if (! xdr_u_long (xdrs, &objp->ut_time)) { X return (FALSE); X } X X return (TRUE); X} X Xbool_t Xxdr_utmpptr(xdrs, objp) X XDR *xdrs; X utmpptr *objp; X{ X if (! xdr_reference (xdrs, (char **)objp, sizeof(rutmp), xdr_rutmp)) { X return (FALSE); X } X X return (TRUE); X} X Xbool_t Xxdr_utmparr(xdrs, objp) X XDR *xdrs; X utmparr *objp; X{ X if (! xdr_array (xdrs, (char **)&objp->uta_arr, &objp->uta_cnt, X MAXUSERS, sizeof(*objp->uta_arr), xdr_utmpptr)) { X return (FALSE); X } X X return (TRUE); X} X Xbool_t Xxdr_utmpidle(xdrs, objp) X XDR *xdrs; X utmpidle *objp; X{ X if (! xdr_rutmp(xdrs, &objp->ui_utmp)) { X return (FALSE); X } X X if (!xdr_u_long(xdrs, &objp->ui_idle)) { X return (FALSE); X } X X return (TRUE); X} X Xbool_t Xxdr_utmpidleptr(xdrs, objp) X XDR *xdrs; X utmpidleptr *objp; X{ X if (! xdr_reference (xdrs, (char **)objp, X sizeof(struct utmpidle), xdr_utmpidle)) { X return (FALSE); X } X X return (TRUE); X} X Xbool_t Xxdr_utmpidlearr(xdrs, objp) X XDR *xdrs; X utmpidlearr *objp; X{ X register int i; X register utmpidle **ptr; X X if (! xdr_array (xdrs, (char **)&objp->uia_arr, X &objp->uia_cnt, MAXUSERS, X sizeof(objp->uia_arr), xdr_utmpidleptr)) { X return (FALSE); X } X X#ifdef DEBUG_UTMPIDLEARR X X printf ("objp->uia_cnt: %u\n", objp->uia_cnt); X X for (ptr = objp->uia_arr, i = 0; i < objp->uia_cnt; i++, ptr++) { X X printf ("TTY: %s\n", (*ptr)->ui_utmp.ut_line); X X printf ("User: %s\n", (*ptr)->ui_utmp.ut_name); X X printf ("From: %s\n", (*ptr)->ui_utmp.ut_host); X X printf ("On since: %s", ctime (&(*ptr)->ui_utmp.ut_time)); X X printf ("(*ptr)->ui_idle: %u:%u\n", X (*ptr)->ui_idle/60, (*ptr)->ui_idle%60); X } X X#endif X X return (TRUE); X} X X END-of-rusers_xdr.c echo x - rnusers.c sed 's/^X//' >rnusers.c << 'END-of-rnusers.c' X X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X Xint Xrnusers (host) X char *host; X{ X static int nusers; X register int failstat; X X if (!host || !*host) { X errno = EINVAL; X return (-1); X } X X if (failstat = callrpc (host, RUSERSPROG, X RUSERSVERS_IDLE, RUSERSPROC_NUM, X xdr_void, NULL, xdr_int, &nusers)) { X clnt_perrno (failstat); X X return (-1); X } X X return (nusers); X} X X#ifdef DEBUG_RNUSERS X X#include X Xint Xmain (ac, av) X int ac; X char **av; X{ X struct hostent *target, *canonify(); X register char *host; X X int n; X X if (ac < 2) { X fprintf (stderr, "usage: %s host\n", av[0]); X exit (-1); X } X X target = canonify (av[1]); X X if (! target) { X herror (av[1]); X exit (-1); X } X X host = strdup (target->h_name); X X if (n = rnusers (host) < 0) { X exit (-1); X } X X printf ("%s: %u users\n", host, n); X X exit (0); X} X X#endif X END-of-rnusers.c exit From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 12:35:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA29633 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA29627 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:35:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA06092; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:35:05 -0800 To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: jdc@crab.xinside.com, velte@cdrom.com Subject: Interested in CDE, anyone? Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 12:35:05 -0800 Message-ID: <6090.819146105@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk CDE, in case you've been living under a stone for the last 5 years, is the Sun/IBM/... (COSE?) Common Desktop & Development Environment - reputedly the best thing since sliced bread and an attempt to finally standardize the X desktop. I wouldn't really know since I've yet to actually see what it looks like, but I've read about it a fair bit and was intrigued enough to follow a recent lead.. A company I just got off the phone with is currently working on a Linux port of CDE and is quite interested indeed in the idea of bringing the same product to FreeBSD. There are a couple of problems to be ironed out, however, most notably the fact that they lack the local manpower to actually do the port themselves (they're in Texas) and are constrained by their software license to not ship the source out of the company, making a "telecommuting port" something of a non-solution. I was myself forced to regretfully decline their offer to go to Texas for a month and do it. :-) This doesn't slam the door on the idea, necessarily, it simply makes the job a little more complicated. Before we embark on a creative solutions program, however, I'd like to know a couple of things: 1. Is there any serious interest in CDE for FreeBSD? E.g. would it help you get FreeBSD into some commercial environment if you had this as a checklist item? Would you or your company be willing to fork out, say, $395 for a copy? Knowing this in advance is of importance if we're to successfully gauge whether the time is ripe for CDE or if we shouldn't perhaps just wait awhile longer for greater "critical mass." 2. Assuming that the answer to #1 is "yes", would anyone perhaps be interested in forming a "consortium" to actually help these folks port, support and sell the product for FreeBSD? They would appear to be somewhat balanced on the knife-edge of being under-capitalized yet unwilling to go outside for capital and lose control of a chunk of their company. They're therefore trying to work out "shoestring" arrangements where any outside investments in time, equipment or outright capital are traded against future royalties and special pricing. This assumes mutual faith in there being a market, of course, and some other source of income for those working in such a consortium until copies are being sold. I'm also Cc'ing Walnut Creek CDROM (hi Jack) on this since they do have the capital and, to a rather lesser extent, the manpower, but it's also not really directly in their core area of business and I actually somewhat doubt that they're necessarily going to jump at the idea. We've never even tried to sell a product in this price range, to my knowledge, and I think that a "FreeBSD Professional" would require additional bundled components as well to be a real success, namely a commercial X server and Motif. I'm also pretty sure that they'll not be entirely keen at the idea of parting with any of their precious resources. :-) CDE is one of those checklist items that also has great potential to be valuable to FreeBSD not so much by itself, but for the additional software players (who develop under the platform) it attracts. Imagine having CDE, DCE and SPEC-1170 compliance; that would certainly get certain segments of the industry to sit up and take notice! :-) We have to take such a challenge one step at a time, of course, and this would be (IMHO) a good one. The central question is simply in ascertaining whether or not the timing's right and the objective is currently worthy of the investment. Given additional time, perhaps the folks in Texas will manage to scrape together enough money to do it anyway, with or without outside help. Is it better to wait and take the gamble? Anyone in the Texas area looking for porting work? Thoughts welcome! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 13:02:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01076 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:02:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01071 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:02:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA01339 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:01:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199512162101.NAA01339@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD Mbone Channel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:01:58 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy, The session FreeBSD Lounge was announced using sd and this is what is on my sd's session cache file, .sd_cache: s=FreeBSD Lounge i=Channel to discuss FreeBSD related issues o=hasty@rah.star-gate.com c=224.2.187.164 127 2905122501 2906332101 m=audio 50167 63859 m=video 42588 23997 a=fmt:vic m=whiteboard 45690 21764 n=3426678340 3426678340 2116408112 Just had a nice chat with Dave Hayes out of Altadena, Ca. For those interested , I am in San Francisco, Ca. So stop on by broadcast video, audio or just type hello on the white board on the FreeBSD Lounge. Oh, one thing I am going to broadcast video using vic2.7a31 which I again you can get the binary from: rah.star-gate.com:/pub/vic2.7a31.gz And for those capable of broadcasting video try to keep the video streams less than 64kb and transmit small size video . Right now, I have to go to work however I shall be in later on tonite. Have a Ball, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 14:39:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07116 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 14:39:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (omega.physik.fu-berlin.de [130.133.3.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA07109 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 14:38:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mordillo (oberon.physik.fu-berlin.de [130.133.3.126]) by omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id XAA04006 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:37:44 +0100 (MET) Received: (from graichen@localhost) by mordillo (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA06649 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 23:34:58 +0100 From: Thomas Graichen Message-Id: <200012162234.XAA06649@mordillo> Subject: looking for testers / reviewers To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 16 Dec 100 23:34:57 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hello now i got it all together - some new stuff plan to commit (import / change) between christmas and new year if nobody has something against it (i asked for that some weeks ago - i'll apend this mail at the end) ok - now what is it - nothing very big: * a new f2c - completely new "ported" to FreeBSD (taken from ftp.netlib.org today - december the 16th) - including a new self-written man-page for the f77 driver program (there hasn't such a thing before) - i talked to the old maintainer and he said that he does'nt have the time currently to keep it up to date - thus i'll try it now * some stuff from NetBSD we don't have (until now :-) - /usr/sbin/newsyslog, /etc/newsyslog.conf (rotates the syslogfiles) - /usr/bin/quota (modified to show nfs quota too) - /usr/libexec/rpc.rquotad (remote quota daemon - only to _show_ nfs quota via quota) - /usr/libexec/rpc.sprayd (remote spray daemon) - /usr/sbin/spray (rpc network analysis) * diffs for /etc/rc.i386, /usr/bin/linux, /usr/bin/ibcs2 to make the output somewhat nicer how to get it ? * you may get the following 3 files from my homedir at freefall ~graichen/misc or via ftp from dirac.physik.fu-berlin.de:/pub/freebsd/misc * f2c_121695.tgz - the new f2c version - the full /usr/src/[lib,usr.bin/f2c] source tree * review.tgz - unpacks into a subdirectory "review" which contains subdirs for newsyslog, quota, rpc.rquotad, spray and rpc.sprayd ready to make * rc.i386.patch - a patch to the -current version of /etc/rc.i386, /usr/bin/linux and /usr/bin/ibcs2 relative to / what i want ? would be nice if someone may try them out before i commit them - because i only run 2.1.0 at home there i made all the stuff ready - but the patches are against -current and all the other stuff should work in -current too -> please send me negative _and_ positiv feedback if you tried something thanks in advance - t ok - and now the old mail containig a better description of all the stuff: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- hello i just want to ask around for pros's and con's of the following things i plan to commit: * /usr/bin/newsyslog - this automates the "rotation" of the log files and can replace our "rotation by hand" in the /etc/[daily,weekly,monthly] scripts - it is invoked via cron each our (the entry is there - but we don't have a newsyslog) and can be configured via a /etc/newsyslog.conf file (where you may adjust how often and/or after which size the files should be rotated, how many old versions should be keeped and if they should be compressed using gzip) this would include the adaption of the /etc/[daily, ...] scripts (taken from NetBSD) * /usr/sbin/spray and /usr/libexec/rpc.sprayd (both from NetBSD) this would include the adaption of the /etc/inetd.conf (rpc.sprayd) NAME spray - send many packets to host SYNOPSIS spray [-c count] [-d delay] [-l length] host ... DESCRIPTION Spray sends multiple RPC packets to host and records how many of them were correctly received and how long it took. Spray is intended for use in network testing, measurement, and management. This command can be very hard on a network and should be used with caution. NAME sprayd, rpc.sprayd - spray server SYNOPSIS /usr/libexec/rpc.sprayd DESCRIPTION rpc.sprayd is a server which records packets sent by the spray(1) command and sends a traffic report to the originator of the packets. The rpc.sprayd daemon is normally invoked by inetd(8). rpc.sprayd uses an RPC protocol defined in /usr/include/rpcsvc/spray.x. * /usr/bin/quota and /usr/libexec/rpc.rquotad (both from NetBSD) this would include the adaption of the /etc/inetd.conf (rpc.rquotad) (i think i'll have to check also quota - because it seems that it doesn't support asking nfs mounts via rquota - i want to get the NetBSD quota to compare now) NAME rquotad, rpc.rquotad - remote quota server SYNOPSIS /usr/libexec/rpc.rquotad DESCRIPTION rpc.rquotad is a rpc(3) server which returns quotas for a user of a local filesystem which is NFS-mounted onto a remote machine. quota(1) uses the results to display user quotas for remote filesystems. rpc.rquotad is normally invoked by inetd(8). rpc.rquotad uses an RPC protocol defined in /usr/include/rpcsvc/rquota.x. * /etc/rc.i386 and /usr/bin/ibcs2 - some slight cosmetic changes they change the output for instance from: --- +++ --- enabling FreeBSD/i386 options: ibcs2 emulator installed coff loader installed socksys driver installed configuring syscons: [kbdcontrol: keymap] screensaver: blank screen saver installed . --- +++ --- to (the i think a bit better and more organized looking): --- +++ --- enabling FreeBSD/i386 options: loading iBCS2 emulation: * ibcs2 emulator installed * coff loader installed * socksys driver installed configuring syscons: * kbdcontrol: keymap * screensaver: blank screen saver installed done --- +++ --- all the other things are also adapted equivalent (i only did it here for 2.1.0 - thus things like the linux-script will be changed as well for -current) * maybe i'll add some sysconfig/rc.i386 stuff for the pcvt configuration (maybe with joerg - joerg - are you there :-) is there someone against these ideas ? - any testers/reviewers ? t _______________________________________________________||___________________ __|| Perfection is reached, not when there is no __|| thomas graichen longer anything to add, but when there __|| freie universitaet berlin is no longer anything to take away __|| fachbereich physik __|| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - __|| graichen@mail.physik.fu-berlin.de ___________________________||__________________graichen@FreeBSD.org_________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 15:29:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA09954 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA09945 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:29:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA15411; Sat, 16 Dec 95 18:28:43 -0500 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id XAA12952; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:28:41 GMT Message-Id: <199512162328.XAA12952@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: growing X server processes In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:37:05 EDT. <6990.819031025@critter.tfs.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 18:28:40 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I use it for everything. Without gnumalloc my server would easily > > grow to ~10meg and never shrink. This was not very good on my 8meg ram/ > > 32meg swap machine to have a third of my swap consumed by unused server > > > You should try out the malloc in -current then. I would probably do even > better than gnumalloc in low-ram environments. > Unfortunately it doesn't. Using gnumalloc my X server "idles" at ~3meg virtual size. Using the malloc in -current it idles at ~4meg virtual size. In fact a call to free with the -current malloc can actually result in the process virtual size growing larger!!! Consider the following trivial test program. (The read/write calls are just markers to unambiguously tag lines in the source to the kdump output.): #include int main () { void* ptr; (void) read (0, NULL, 0); ptr = malloc (4000000); (void) write (1, NULL, 0); (void) free (ptr); (void) write (2, NULL, 0); return 0; } Here's the relevant exerpt of the the ktrace using the -current malloc: ... 17898 t CALL read(0,0,0) 17898 t RET read 0 17898 t CALL mmap(0,0x1000,0x3,0x1002,0xffffffff,0,0,0) 17898 t RET mmap 134316032/0x8018000 17898 t CALL break(0x2104) 17898 t RET break 0 17898 t CALL break(0x2104) 17898 t RET break 0 17898 t CALL break(0x3d4000) 17898 t RET break 0 17898 t CALL write(0x1,0,0) 17898 t RET write 0 17898 t CALL break(0x3d4000) 17898 t RET break 0 17898 t CALL break(0x3d5000) <<== it got bigger in the call to free!!! 17898 t RET break 0 17898 t CALL write(0x2,0,0) 17898 t RET write 0 17898 t CALL exit(0) The reason for this, I found by examining the code, is that -current's free calls malloc and destroys any chance of returning the pages to the OS!!! For comparison here's the ktrace using gnumalloc: ... 17996 t CALL read(0,0,0) 17996 t RET read 0 17996 t CALL break(0x5104) 17996 t RET break 0 17996 t CALL break(0x6000) 17996 t RET break 0 17996 t CALL break(0x3d7000) 17996 t RET break 0 17996 t CALL write(0x1,0,0) 17996 t RET write 0 17996 t CALL break(0x3d7000) 17996 t RET break 0 17996 t CALL break(0x6000) 17996 t RET break 0 17996 t CALL write(0x2,0,0) 17996 t RET write 0 17996 t CALL exit(0) So you can see that gnumalloc does much better in this case, even if it is a somewhat contrived test. But I'm not so sure that it's so contrived; because my guess is that this is probably what accounts for my X server idling with a one megabyte larger process virtual size using -current's malloc that with gnumalloc. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 15:56:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11748 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:56:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11739 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:56:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA08488; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:54:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199512162354.QAA08488@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mmap and memory utilization To: daveho@infocom.com (David Hovemeyer) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:54:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, daveho@infocom.com In-Reply-To: from "David Hovemeyer" at Dec 16, 95 01:16:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I am writing a program that needs to do a lot of character at > a time reading through regular files, both forwards and backwards. > I decided to use mmap(2) rather than read(2) to implement this. > My reasoning is that it is easier to do random access in memory > than in a file. Also, I imagine that calling read(2) for reading > single characters is inefficient in terms of system call overhead. > I could use iostreams (it's a C++ program) to get buffering of > reads, but iostreams are big and hairy, and still more awkward > to use than memory for what I want to do. Buffered I/O really would be the best approach if you can do it. > What I am wondering is > > What is the impact of mmap'ing a large file and then > scanning linearly through it? You will cause the pages to be faulted in and hooked to the LRU in inverse fault order (ie: last page accessed will be at the top of the LRU). If you do this fast enough, I expect that the cache will be thrashed for other processes. There was a change in 1.1.5.1 (I believe) that implemented working set quotas that would alleviate this problem. It's a simple issue of list insertion order in the case of 'n' buffers being on the list for a particular vp (or process, if you want to hit it that way). > Currently I am thinking of mmap'ing the entire file; if the file is > approximately as large as physical memory, will this cause excessive > paging? (I am assuming an infinite amount of virtual memory, > but a limited amount of physical memory.) Will the program degrade > the performance of other programs which are running? Would the mmap > be likely to fail? In order: o Yes, if you hit all of the pages. Is this excessive? Depends on your application. o Yes, potentially (see above). o Not if you have set your soft and hard limits appropriately. "man limit' for some details. > Hmm, I just noticed the madvise(2) man page: is this what I need > to use? Maybe I could say MADV_DONTNEED to pages scanned past, > and MADV_WILLNEED to pages about to be accessed? I'm not sure the madvise isn't a nullop. It really depends on your exact version. I don't think for a linear scan that you would need to set it anyway. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 16:13:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA12353 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA12347 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:13:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA03437; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:13:25 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA00305; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:13:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199512170013.QAA00305@corbin.Root.COM> To: David Hovemeyer cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mmap and memory utilization In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Dec 95 13:16:39 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:13:38 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I am writing a program that needs to do a lot of character at >a time reading through regular files, both forwards and backwards. >I decided to use mmap(2) rather than read(2) to implement this. >My reasoning is that it is easier to do random access in memory >than in a file. Also, I imagine that calling read(2) for reading >single characters is inefficient in terms of system call overhead. >I could use iostreams (it's a C++ program) to get buffering of >reads, but iostreams are big and hairy, and still more awkward >to use than memory for what I want to do. > >What I am wondering is > > What is the impact of mmap'ing a large file and then > scanning linearly through it? Depends on what you mean by "large". >Currently I am thinking of mmap'ing the entire file; if the file is >approximately as large as physical memory, will this cause excessive >paging? (I am assuming an infinite amount of virtual memory, >but a limited amount of physical memory.) Will the program degrade >the performance of other programs which are running? Would the mmap >be likely to fail? Depends on what you consider "excessive". :-) >In most cases I expect the mmap'ed file to be small (< 16K), but >I want the program to be a "good citizen" under extreme conditions. >I'm pretty clueless about the details of virtual memory and how >it is implemented in FreeBSD. In those cases it will work extremely well and is much faster than doing small reads. As the file involved gets larger than available memory, the performance will degrade. This may or may not be an issue depending on what other processes are running on the machine. For most 'normal' sized files on a machine with a 'reasonable' amount of memory, mmap() is faster than read(). >Hmm, I just noticed the madvise(2) man page: is this what I need >to use? Maybe I could say MADV_DONTNEED to pages scanned past, >and MADV_WILLNEED to pages about to be accessed? madvise(2) isn't yet implemented in FreeBSD. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 16:37:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA13927 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sagi.ucv.edu.ve (root@[150.185.84.230]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA13902 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from opereira@localhost) by sagi.ucv.edu.ve (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA06819; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 21:20:09 -0400 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 21:20:08 -0400 From: Orlando Pereira Subject: I need Help.. 8-) To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512150942.KAA02977@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello, Friends.. Today , i conected to ftp.freebsd.org..and in the directory the Freebsd.. I don't know which the fiels aabout the FrreBSD...??? Do you asnyone tell me which the direcctory contain the files are program FrreBSd..?? Thankas..... thanks, thanlks...!!! Excuse me, by english..!!!!!!!!! :9 I'm leraning engl;ish..!! I hope soon tlak english ver well!! I hope..!! bye! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 17:06:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA15062 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:06:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA15056 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA05382; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:06:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199512170106.RAA05382@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Orlando Pereira cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: I need Help.. 8-) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Dec 1995 21:20:08 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:06:09 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Saludos 8) Yo te puedo ayudar. FreeBSD no es un program es un systema y lo puedes encontrar en: ftp.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD Suerte! Amancio >>> Orlando Pereira said: > > Hello, Friends.. > > Today , i conected to ftp.freebsd.org..and in the directory the Freebsd.. > I don't know which the fiels aabout the FrreBSD...??? > Do you asnyone tell me which the direcctory contain the files are > program FrreBSd..?? > > Thankas..... > > > > thanks, thanlks...!!! > Excuse me, by english..!!!!!!!!! :9 I'm leraning engl;ish..!! I hope > soon tlak english ver well!! I hope..!! > > bye! > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 19:11:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA18338 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 19:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user40.lightside.com [198.81.209.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA18332 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 19:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA00266; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:23:15 -0800 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:22:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jdc@crab.xinside.com, velte@cdrom.com Subject: Re: Interested in CDE, anyone? In-Reply-To: <6090.819146105@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Dec 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > CDE, in case you've been living under a stone for the last 5 years, is > the Sun/IBM/... (COSE?) Common Desktop & Development Environment - > reputedly the best thing since sliced bread and an attempt to finally > standardize the X desktop. I wouldn't really know since I've yet to > actually see what it looks like, but I've read about it a fair bit and > was intrigued enough to follow a recent lead.. I've tried out CDE on a SPARCstation 20 running Solaris 2.4 and (recently) Solaris 2.5. I have VERY mixed feelings about it. On the one hand it looks pretty enough, and it has the advantage of being a "standard" across platforms. Also, it has a pretty toolbar on the bottom, a number of Motif-based tools (similar to the Openwindows "Deskset" stuff), and virtual consoles. Those are the pros. But the disadvanatges are so big, that I doubt it will be a big seller on FreeBSD (or Linux for that matter). First of all, Motif is big, and so are the CDE programs. Even with 48MB of RAM, and the fastest (single-CPU) superSPARC 75MHz, most programs take a noticeable five seconds or so to start. And, although there are plenty of pretty pictures, once you actually start to USE (or even worse try to customize) CDE, you're stuck back in the Unix command-line world. Nearly every program has an option to pop up a "Terminal" (DEC must've written this one, it looks and works more like a DECTerm than an xterm), and as for customizations, forget it! Although it's easy to change things like wallpaper and background colors, customizing things like menu bars either takes five or six separate non-intuitive steps, or involves editing .rc files... All in all, this is an environment which fairly reeks of "designed-by-committee" thinking and not enough usability testing... With all of these problems, I think I'll stick with my finely honed fvwm configuration on the SPARC, it starts up MUCH faster, the menu bar with commonly used programs is always within reach, the desktop panner gives me quick access to 9 virtual desktop, and it matches my configuration on FreeBSD at home. Although CDE is a far cry from the ugly non-intuitive (IMHO of course) Sun Openwindows stuff (is it just me or is olwm the UGLIEST window manager?), it's barely worth the 28MB it takes up on disk (40MB if you install the developers stuff!). And, unless it was $99 or less (unlikely), I doubt many FreeBSD/Linux users would want it, ESPECIALLY if it didn't come with the Motif developers kit. Add in the fact that it needs AT LEAST 16-24MB of RAM to work well, and I vote no on the whole idea... Am I totally wrong, or is there a fundamental flaw in the idea of porting CDE to a "tight" platform like FreeBSD? If you want it, you're just as well off to run Solaris for x86, IMHO, and upgrade your system to 32MB of RAM... :-( ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 19:27:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA18920 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 19:27:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from cocoa.ops.neosoft.com (cocoa.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.65.163.227]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA18890 Sat, 16 Dec 1995 19:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dbaker@localhost) by cocoa.ops.neosoft.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) id OAA00240; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:34:25 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Baker Message-Id: <199512142034.OAA00240@cocoa.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: FreeBSD Current 12-14 9:00 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, smace@neosoft.com Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:34:24 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This morning, I got the latest CTM deltas (at 9:00) and did a make world... Then I compiled a new kernel and rebooted... On bootup, everything went fine untill rc.local. xdm died on signal 11, then I got these error messages: Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: ahc_scsi_cmd0: more than 256 DMA segs Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: sd0: oops not queued Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: biodone: buffer already done Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: spec_getpages: I/O read error Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID 147 failure Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: ahc_scsi_cmd0: more than 256 DMA segs Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: sd0: oops not queued Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: biodone: buffer already done Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: spec_getpages: I/O read error Dec 14 17:49:07 cocoa /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID 146 failure I then got a virtual console getty to login, but whenever I tried, it logged me in, but then on trying to start tcsh, it said something like /usr/local/bin/tcsh:1 unexpected '(' (that's not exact) Then, I got a message saying Sendmail died. I did notice that my kernel booted up differntly, here's the "dmesg" from the logs: Dec 14 18:56:07 cocoa /kernel: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Thu Dec 14 18:53:46 CST 1995 Dec 14 18:56:07 cocoa /kernel: dbaker@cocoa.ops.neosoft.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/COCOA Dec 14 18:56:07 cocoa /kernel: CPU: Pentium (46.98-MHz 586-class CPU) Dec 14 18:56:07 cocoa /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x517 Stepping=7 Dec 14 18:56:07 cocoa /kernel: Features=0x1bf Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: real memory = 25165824 (24576K bytes) Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: avail memory = 22765568 (22232K bytes) Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: Probing for devices on the PCI bus: Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: chip0 rev 3 on pci0:0 Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: chip1 rev 3 on pci0:2 Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: vga0 rev 0 on pci0:6 Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:14 Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: ahc0: aic7870 Ultra Single Channel, SCSI Id=7, aic7870, 255 SCBs Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: (ahc0:0:0): "QUANTUM XP34301 1051" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 4106MB (8410200 512 byte sectors) Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: psm0 at 0x60-0x63 irq 12 on motherboard Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sio0: type 16550A Dec 14 18:56:08 cocoa /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: sio1: type 16550A Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: lpt0: Interrupt-driven port Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 flags 0x1 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: fdc0: NEC 72065B Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: ft0: Colorado tape Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: wd0: 516MB (1057280 sectors), 1120 cyls, 16 heads, 59 S/T, 512 B/S Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: matcd - Matsushita (Panasonic) CD-ROM Driver by FDIV, Version 1(26) 18-Oct-95 Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: matcdc0 at 0x230-0x233 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: matcdc0 Host interface type 0 Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: matcd0: [CR-5630.75] Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: npx0 on motherboard Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: sb0 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 on isa Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: sb0: Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: changing root device to sd0a Dec 14 18:56:09 cocoa /kernel: new masks: bio c0004840, tty c003109a, net c003109a Usually it loads the AHA and the sd0 drive near the wd0 drive and controller. Sorry if this is the wrong information, or not enough. I'd appreciate a response if anyone has any ideas, or if you want my kernel config file or anything. Thanks in advance, Daniel From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 23:37:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA03348 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:37:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA03341 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA07367; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:37:03 -0800 To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: Orlando Pereira , freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: I need Help.. 8-) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:06:09 PST." <199512170106.RAA05382@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:37:02 -0800 Message-ID: <7365.819185822@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I'm afraid I flamed him a bit - it really does annoy me just a tad when people feel that it'd be faster to annoy thousands of people with a completely trivial question when *ten seconds* worth of poking around would answer all their questions. Sheesh - these folks will be writing us messages next saying "Help! Help! I am unable to find a piece of paper to wipe my nose! Someone please come here and wipe it for me!" :-) Jordan > Saludos 8) > > Yo te puedo ayudar. > FreeBSD no es un program es un systema y lo puedes encontrar en: > > ftp.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD > > Suerte! > Amancio > > >>> Orlando Pereira said: > > > > Hello, Friends.. > > > > Today , i conected to ftp.freebsd.org..and in the directory the Freebsd.. > > I don't know which the fiels aabout the FrreBSD...??? > > Do you asnyone tell me which the direcctory contain the files are > > program FrreBSd..?? > > > > Thankas..... > > > > > > > > thanks, thanlks...!!! > > Excuse me, by english..!!!!!!!!! :9 I'm leraning engl;ish..!! I hope > > soon tlak english ver well!! I hope..!! > > > > bye! > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 16 23:38:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA03419 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:38:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03414 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:38:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id IAA14979; Sun, 17 Dec 1995 08:30:03 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA00591; Sun, 17 Dec 1995 08:24:52 +0100 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 08:24:51 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Jake Hamby cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org, jdc@crab.xinside.com, velte@cdrom.com Subject: Re: Interested in CDE, anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Dec 1995, Jake Hamby wrote: > > I've tried out CDE on a SPARCstation 20 running Solaris 2.4 and > (recently) Solaris 2.5. I have VERY mixed feelings about it. On the one > hand it looks pretty enough, and it has the advantage of being a > "standard" across platforms. Also, it has a pretty toolbar on the > bottom, a number of Motif-based tools (similar to the Openwindows > "Deskset" stuff), and virtual consoles. Really, it looks very nice ! But... > Those are the pros. But the disadvanatges are so big, that I doubt it > will be a big seller on FreeBSD (or Linux for that matter). First of > all, Motif is big, and so are the CDE programs. Even with 48MB of RAM, > and the fastest (single-CPU) superSPARC 75MHz, most programs take a > noticeable five seconds or so to start. Last week I installed it in the company on a SS 10/40. The machine is equipped with 64 MB RAM, CG6 (GX) graphic accelerator and a 2.1 GB Harddisk (5400 U/min). The machine currently runs a Netscape communication and proxy server and serves about 10 WWW users. But not all the time. My experience is, that my machine is a bit slow now under CDE. The mouse cursor doesn't respond as quickly as I was used to under Solaris 2.4 without CDE. > Am I totally wrong, or is there a fundamental flaw in the idea of porting > CDE to a "tight" platform like FreeBSD? If you want it, you're just as > well off to run Solaris for x86, IMHO, and upgrade your system to 32MB of > RAM... :-( Only 32 MB ? ;-) I'd question myself the following... My ,Top Ten'(tm) not to buy CDE for FreeBSD: - costs money (ok, same as for Motif) - would make my machine slow - would possibly need to upgrade to 64 MB RAM (costs money as well) - CDE menue bar configuration looks complicated, like fvwm/mwm configuration style - buying motif license would be more useful, since there are currently more Motif related programs available as C source - can I compile and run Motif programs under CDE without having to fiddle around in sources... ? - the deskset tools are still a bit lame ... mailtool comes without pgp support or such - Possibly to few CDE desktop tools. What would come with CDE on a FreeBSD machine ? Missing fvwm's functionality of - changing virtual screen by simply moving the cursor to the border of the screen - seeing the actually opened windows in the swallowed pager -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<<