From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 01:00:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA08491 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 01:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potato.Dorm8.NCTU.edu.tw (potato.Dorm8.NCTU.edu.tw [140.113.188.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA08468 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 01:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from SPotato@localhost) by potato.Dorm8.NCTU.edu.tw (8.7.5/8.6.12) id PAA13017 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 15:59:40 +0800 (CST) From: Chao-Cheng Huang Message-Id: <199606020759.PAA13017@potato.Dorm8.NCTU.edu.tw> Subject: Problem when make world ?! To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 15:59:38 +0800 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, all: When I make world, it just tell me:'world is up to date'? What's wrong? cd /work/src/usr.sbin/zic/zdump; rm -rf obj; ===> zic /work/src/usr.sbin/zic/zic -> /usr/obj/work/src/usr.sbin/zic/zic ===> zdump /work/src/usr.sbin/zic/zdump -> /usr/obj/work/src/usr.sbin/zic/zdump World' is up to date. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think the final message should be: "make world completed on Date" , Right? Thanks. Sincerely, Chao-cheng Huang -- _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ Chao-cheng Huang(¶À¬Lµ{) Department Management Science 87G of NCTU _/ _/ E-mail: SPotato@potato.Dorm8.NCTU.edu.tw or u8331056@cc.nctu.edu.tw _/ _/ URL: telnet://potato.Dorm8.NCTU.edu.tw Phone:(035)712121 Ext. 78302 _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 01:26:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA09404 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 01:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA09396; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 01:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uQ8TE-000QdHC; Sun, 2 Jun 96 10:25 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA15690; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 10:17:30 +0200 Message-Id: <199606020817.KAA15690@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 10:17:30 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: scrappy@ki.net, dob@nasvr1.cb.att.com, dyson@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, ejc@nasvr1.cb.att.com In-Reply-To: <199606012008.PAA01686@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jun 1, 96 03:08:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John S. Dyson writes: > >>> >>> Anyway, panic was ``panic: freeing held page, count = 4...'' >>> >> >> I'm getting the same thing, *but* the description on today's >> re-commit of pmap.c sounds like it fixes that...going to try it now... >> > I *wish* so, but it might not. Just let me know!!! I've just built a kernel with ctm 2065. emacs still takes several attempts to start, but once it's running, there are no more problems (this is the way it's been all along--sorry I didn't mention that before). Today the crashes were all clean SIGSEGVs. Greg From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 06:58:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA20029 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 06:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ihgw2.att.com (ihgw2.att.com [207.19.48.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA20024; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 06:58:52 -0700 (PDT) From: dob@nasvr1.cb.att.com Received: from nasvr1.cb.att.com by ihig2.att.att.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) id IAA15365; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 08:56:02 -0500 Received: by nasvr1.cb.att.com (5.x/EMS-1.1 Sol2) id AA08319; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 09:56:19 -0400 Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, ejc@nasvr1.cb.att.com, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, scrappy@ki.net Received: from cbsky.cb.att.com by nasvr1.cb.att.com (5.x/EMS-1.1 Sol2) id AA08300; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 09:56:09 -0400 Received: by cbsky.cb.att.com (5.x/EMS-1.1 Sol2) id AA20401; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 09:55:41 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 09:55:41 -0400 Message-Id: <9606021355.AA20401@cbsky.cb.att.com> To: grog@lemis.de, toor@dyson.iquest.net Original-Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, ejc@nasvr1, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, scrappy@ki.net Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>> Anyway, panic was ``panic: freeing held page, count = 4...'' > >>> > >> I'm getting the same thing, *but* the description on today's > >> re-commit of pmap.c sounds like it fixes that...going to try it now... > >> > > I *wish* so, but it might not. Just let me know!!! > > I've just built a kernel with ctm 2065. emacs still takes several > attempts to start, but once it's running, there are no more problems > (this is the way it's been all along--sorry I didn't mention that > before). Today the crashes were all clean SIGSEGVs. John, Et.Al, Make world took all night with three or so hand fixes for y.tab.h errors, but when I saw my monitor this morning, the ``freeing held page'' panic (count=12) was on the console. The recent pmap, vm_fault fixes much improved the problem on my machine (8MB, 0KB L2), but there still seems to be a hole somewhere. Thanks, Dan O'Brien From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 11:05:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01869 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 11:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cenotaph.snafu.de (root@deadline.berlin.netSurf.DE [194.64.158.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01861 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 11:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by cenotaph.snafu.de from deadline.snafu.de using smtp id m0uQHWt-0002bhC; Sun, 2 Jun 96 20:05:31 +0200 (MET DST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.1) Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0uQHWp-0009SpC; Sun, 2 Jun 96 20:05:27 +0200 (MET DST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.1) Message-Id: From: mickey@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Subject: Current VM status? To: current@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 20:05:27 +0200 (MET DST) Organization: -D-E-A-D-L-I-N-E- Public access UN*X system, 13347 Berlin (WEST). X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL13] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! --- I would be very pleased, if someone could tell me about the status of the current VM changes. Is it running stable again? The reason why I'm asking is that I will have to update one of my -current machines (dated 96/05/02) which seems to have some VM leaks (programs do randomly die with sig 11) before I can leave it alone for about three months (will have to work in another city for a while). Since the machine runs on 2.2, I'm thinking about updating it to the most recent system, rather than installing a release version, which would cause me lots of trouble in that little time I'm here to do something before I'll have to go. Regards, mickey -- (__) (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de /-------\/ Utrechter Strasse 41 Web: http://deadline.snafu.de/ / | || 13347 Berlin Voice: <+4930> 456 81 68 * ||----|| Germany Fax/Data: <+4930> 455 19 57 ~~ ~~ From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 11:26:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA02535 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 11:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02529; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 11:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id aa13353; 2 Jun 96 19:26 +0100 Received: from an158.du.pipex.com ([193.130.253.158]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa00250; 2 Jun 96 19:26 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id PAA01380; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 15:39:28 GMT Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 15:39:28 GMT Message-Id: <199606021539.PAA01380@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: grog@lemis.de CC: dyson@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199606020817.KAA15690@allegro.lemis.de> (grog@lemis.de) Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Cc list pruned] > I've just built a kernel with ctm 2065. emacs still takes several > attempts to start, but once it's running, there are no more problems > (this is the way it's been all along--sorry I didn't mention that > before). Today the crashes were all clean SIGSEGVs. I had a lockup under X with a ctm 2065 kernel today 8-( Emacs appeared to be working normally, then suddenly C-k and the return key stopped functioning (although the other keys I tried worked). I went to close it down with C-x C-c and the machine promptly locked up. I had quite a few start-up crashes with Emacs as well. I'm currently compiling a ctm 2068 kernel. I'll post again if there are any new developments. -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland | http://freefall.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ james@jraynard.demon.co.uk | jraynard@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 13:06:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA07013 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07006; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA03211 ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:06:38 -0700 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id NAA28462; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA00644; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:59:17 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199606021959.OAA00644@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk (James Raynard) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:59:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: grog@lemis.de, dyson@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606021539.PAA01380@jraynard.demon.co.uk> from "James Raynard" at Jun 2, 96 03:39:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I had quite a few start-up crashes with Emacs as well. > > I'm currently compiling a ctm 2068 kernel. I'll post again if there > are any new developments. > If you have pmap.c v1.97 you have the latest. There are a couple of people (including you) who are helping immensely. Thanks for being patient. The more info you can send me, the better the chance that I can help (and you can help me.) If at all possible, of course a stack traceback is minimum (and very helpful.) But sometimes the (p->pindex, p->flags, p->queue, and maybe p->object->type) are all very helpful. Again THANKS for the help, and we will all get this working. I am also trying to figure out a way of giving those some credit for helping with these problems. No matter how brilliant the code is, if it doesn't work, noone cares :-). Thanks John From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 13:56:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA10525 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10513 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id NAA28433 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA00975; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 12:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606021958.MAA00975@precipice.shockwave.com> To: Andreas Klemm cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: first bisdn prerelease runs stable here on -current (Teles 16.3) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Jun 1996 18:58:26 +0200." Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 12:58:41 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Get support working for NE1 and AT&T 5ESS switches and we'll let you put it in. :-) :-) :-) (just kidding) From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 13:57:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA10654 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10645 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id MAA28370 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 12:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA00630; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:54:51 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199606021954.OAA00630@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Current VM status? To: mickey@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:54:51 -0500 (EST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas S. Wetzel" at Jun 2, 96 08:05:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi! > --- > > I would be very pleased, if someone could tell me about the status of the > current VM changes. Is it running stable again? > It is much better, but there are a few bugs left. There were some unfortunate race conditions popping in (some that we have had for quite a while.) Give me one (1) more week, and I think that you will like it. There are about 3-4 users/testers/developers working with me (very graciously and patiently, I might add). We are making very good (but sometimes slow) progress. So, if you need something better "right now", things are better. If you can wait until about the 10th or 12th of June, you will probably be better served then... John From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 16:44:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA19592 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 16:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19580 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 16:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ginger.eng.umd.edu (ginger.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.204]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA05842 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:44:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by ginger.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA24170; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:44:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@ginger.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD current Subject: make world Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Latest make world breaks at games/atc. lex.l tries to include grammar.tab.h, which doesn't exist. I'm not sure what's broken, but I noticed in the Makefile that a clean target is grammer.tab.h (notice grammer, not grammar), so that's probably wrong at least. I'd kinda like to know why PHK is backing out his changes. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 17:26:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA21444 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 17:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21439 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 17:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA13399; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:21:16 +1000 Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:21:16 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199606030021.KAA13399@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: make world Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Latest make world breaks at games/atc. lex.l tries to include >grammar.tab.h, which doesn't exist. I'm not sure what's broken, but I The changes haven't been backed out in atc yet. >noticed in the Makefile that a clean target is grammer.tab.h (notice >grammer, not grammar), so that's probably wrong at least. This is a (fairly harmless) bug in the changes that didn't get backed out. Clean targets tend to break anyway unless you remember to use them before updating CLEANFILES. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 17:50:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA23017 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 17:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23012; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 17:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ac24928; 3 Jun 96 1:49 +0100 Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa25012; 3 Jun 96 1:08 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA05015; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:39:36 GMT Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:39:36 GMT Message-Id: <199606022339.XAA05015@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: toor@dyson.iquest.net CC: grog@lemis.de, dyson@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199606021959.OAA00644@dyson.iquest.net> (toor@dyson.iquest.net) Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If you have pmap.c v1.97 you have the latest. There are a couple of Yes, I'm afraid one of the lockups was with 1.97. > people (including you) who are helping immensely. Thanks for being > patient. The more info you can send me, the better the chance that > I can help (and you can help me.) If at all possible, of course a stack > traceback is minimum (and very helpful.) But sometimes the (p->pindex, > p->flags, p->queue, and maybe p->object->type) are all very helpful. I only wish I could get this machine to panic 8-) I've built a debug version of Emacs - perhaps looking at the cores might show a pattern. -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland | http://freefall.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ james@jraynard.demon.co.uk | jraynard@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 18:56:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA24894 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 18:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA24873 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 18:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <03167-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:55:51 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id JAA12414; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:53:16 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id XAA11589; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:54:59 GMT Message-Id: <199606022354.XAA11589@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Latest VM fixes are holding up In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 May 1996 13:58:07 MST." <199605312058.NAA18657@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 09:54:57 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [patch & short discussion trimmed] >Try the kludge; if you can go through the code and understand why >it's necessary (but a bad soloution to the problem), you can probably >think about dealing with the real issue, and maybe come up with your >own patch. I tried the patch and then ran my trigger case - it promptly crashed with "cleaned vnode isn't". Looking at the code I discovered that I had DIAGNOSTIC set in my config file. I've now removed it and will run with the new kernel for a while (it's compiling now ) before reporting back. I think I'll also bust my head with trying to understand the FS stuff a bit more. Sigh. Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland, Australia. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 21:08:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA01336 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA01331; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA00610; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:06:24 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199606030406.XAA00610@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk (James Raynard) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:06:24 -0500 (EST) Cc: grog@lemis.de, dyson@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606022339.XAA05015@jraynard.demon.co.uk> from "James Raynard" at Jun 2, 96 11:39:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > people (including you) who are helping immensely. Thanks for being > > patient. The more info you can send me, the better the chance that > > I can help (and you can help me.) If at all possible, of course a stack > > traceback is minimum (and very helpful.) But sometimes the (p->pindex, > > p->flags, p->queue, and maybe p->object->type) are all very helpful. > > I only wish I could get this machine to panic 8-) > > I've built a debug version of Emacs - perhaps looking at the cores > might show a pattern. > Well, you are right :-), if no panic, then no p->flags :-). John From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 21:53:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA04989 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pain.csrv.uidaho.edu (root@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.114.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA04983; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pain.csrv.uidaho.edu (fn@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pain.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA14272; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:53:34 -0700 (PDT) To: gibbs@freebsd.org Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: more aha2940w timeouts. Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 21:53:32 -0700 Message-ID: <14268.833777612@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu> From: Faried Nawaz Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, With a kernel built last night around 10pm PST (after a sup), things appeared stable until 3am, when I got timeouts. I had no reboots or crashes. The boot dmesg output is ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 15 on pci0:13 mapreg[10] type=1 addr=0000fc00 size=0100. mapreg[14] type=0 addr=fefff000 size=1000. ahc0: Reading SEEPROM...done. ahc0: aic7870 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0: Reseting Channel A ahc0: Downloading Sequencer Program...Done ahc0: Probing channel A ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle ahc0: target 0 synchronous at 5.0MHz, offset = 0xf (ahc0:0:0): "CONNER CFA540S 0FAE" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 510MB (1045242 512 byte sectors) sd0(ahc0:0:0): with 2800 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 93 sectors/track ahc0: target 4 using 16Bit transfers ahc0: target 4 synchronous at 10.0MHz, offset = 0x8 (ahc0:4:0): "QUANTUM XP34301 1051" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahc0:4:0): Direct-Access 4106MB (8410200 512 byte sectors) sd1(ahc0:4:0): with 4076 cyls, 20 heads, and an average 103 sectors/track The syslog messages are Jun 2 03:00:18 newshound /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): timed out in command phase, SCSISIGI == 0x84 Jun 2 03:00:21 newshound /kernel: sd1(ahc0:4:0): asserted ATN - device reset inmessage buffer Jun 2 03:00:21 newshound /kernel: sd1(ahc0:4:0): timed out in command phase, SCSISIGI == 0x94 Jun 2 03:00:21 newshound /kernel: ahc0: Issued Channel A Bus Reset #1. 4 SCBs aborted Jun 2 03:00:22 newshound /kernel: ahc0: target 0 synchronous at 5.0MHz, offset= 0x8 Jun 2 03:00:22 newshound /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 Jun 2 03:00:22 newshound /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred field replaceable unit: 14 Jun 2 03:00:22 newshound /kernel: , retries:3 Jun 2 03:00:22 newshound /kernel: ahc0: target 4 using 16Bit transfers Jun 2 03:00:22 newshound /kernel: sd1(ahc0:4:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 Jun 2 03:00:22 newshound /kernel: sd1(ahc0:4:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred sks:80,0 Jun 2 03:00:22 newshound /kernel: , retries:3 Jun 2 03:00:22 newshound /kernel: ahc0: target 4 synchronous at 10.0MHz, offset= 0x8 Jun 2 07:33:26 newshound /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): timed out in command phase, SCSISIGI == 0x84 Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): BUS DEVICE RESET message queued. Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): timed out in command phase, SCSISIGI == 0x84 Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: ahc0: Issued Channel A Bus Reset #1. 4 SCBs aborted Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: ahc0: target 0 synchronous at 5.0MHz, offset= 0x8 Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred field replaceable unit: 14 Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: , retries:3 Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: ahc0: target 4 using 16Bit transfers Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: sd1(ahc0:4:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:29,0 Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: sd1(ahc0:4:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred sks:80,0 Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: , retries:3 Jun 2 07:33:29 newshound /kernel: ahc0: target 4 synchronous at 10.0MHz, offset= 0x8 I don't know what triggered them at either time. I'm guessing heavy disk activity at 3am (by news.daily) caused the timeouts then. I did what you mentioned -- disable parity on the controller. On the brighter side, I've had no vm problems so far (pmap.c -- v1.97, old p90 with 48mb ram). faried. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 23:52:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13863 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA13853; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA02089; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:14:15 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id BAA06474; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:12:56 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.8) id BAA07672; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:09:21 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199606022309.BAA07672@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:09:20 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, scrappy@ki.net, dob@nasvr1.cb.att.com, dyson@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, ejc@nasvr1.cb.att.com In-Reply-To: <199606020817.KAA15690@allegro.lemis.de> from Greg Lehey at "Jun 2, 96 10:17:30 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2058 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Greg Lehey said: > I've just built a kernel with ctm 2065. emacs still takes several > attempts to start, but once it's running, there are no more problems > (this is the way it's been all along--sorry I didn't mention that > before). Today the crashes were all clean SIGSEGVs. I'm still at ctm #2058 and got a sig11 when starting Emacs from Elm. Second call run fine... Will upgrade tomorrow probably to ctm #2071 or ctm #2072. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #5: Thu May 30 23:09:17 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 2 23:53:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13932 for current-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA13921 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA02085; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:13:45 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id BAA06475; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:12:56 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.8) id BAA07683; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:12:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199606022312.BAA07683@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:12:06 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Current Users' list) In-Reply-To: <199606021959.OAA00644@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Jun 2, 96 02:59:17 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2058 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that John S. Dyson said: > Again THANKS for the help, and we will all get this working. I am also > trying to figure out a way of giving those some credit for helping with > these problems. Really, it is us who thanks you and everyone involved for what you bring us. Your work in invaluable and am constantly impressed by FreeBSD. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #5: Thu May 30 23:09:17 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 00:21:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA15534 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 00:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA15505 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 00:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA14596 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:20:44 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA09446 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:20:43 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA03471 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:06:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199606030706.JAA03471@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: first bisdn prerelease runs stable here on -current (Teles 16.3) To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:06:52 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199606021958.MAA00975@precipice.shockwave.com> from Paul Traina at "Jun 2, 96 12:58:41 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Paul Traina wrote: > Get support working for NE1 and AT&T 5ESS switches and we'll let you put it > in. :-) :-) :-) According to Hellmuth Michaelis, this requires somebody with true and deep knowledge of the ISDN protocol, and of course, the availability of these protocol stacks locally for testing. Apart from this, he told me that he believes it's not too difficult to extend the existing framework. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 01:24:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA19016 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA19011 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uQUw4-000QZQC; Mon, 3 Jun 96 10:24 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA10420; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:06:35 +0200 Message-Id: <199606030806.KAA10420@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:06:35 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) In-Reply-To: <199606030406.XAA00610@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jun 2, 96 11:06:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John S. Dyson writes: > >> >>> people (including you) who are helping immensely. Thanks for being >>> patient. The more info you can send me, the better the chance that >>> I can help (and you can help me.) If at all possible, of course a stack >>> traceback is minimum (and very helpful.) But sometimes the (p->pindex, >>> p->flags, p->queue, and maybe p->object->type) are all very helpful. >> >> I only wish I could get this machine to panic 8-) >> >> I've built a debug version of Emacs - perhaps looking at the cores >> might show a pattern. >> > Well, you are right :-), if no panic, then no p->flags :-). Is there somewhere in the kernel where I could set a breakpoint to recover these values? Greg From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 09:38:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA00867 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter2.tfs.com ([140.145.16.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA00857; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter2.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter2.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01531; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:32:38 -0700 (PDT) To: "John S. Dyson" cc: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk (James Raynard), grog@lemis.de, dyson@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Jun 1996 14:59:17 CDT." <199606021959.OAA00644@dyson.iquest.net> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 09:32:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1529.833819557@critter2.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No matter how brilliant the code is, if it doesn't work, noone cares :-). > > Thanks > John Actually I think it's the other way around. When it works people don't care, but when it's broken you suddenly get a LOT of email :-) Keep it up John! -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 09:38:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA00946 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter2.tfs.com ([140.145.16.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA00925 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter2.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter2.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01968; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:37:37 -0700 (PDT) To: Chuck Robey cc: FreeBSD current Subject: Re: make world In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Jun 1996 19:44:53 EDT." Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 09:37:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1956.833819853@critter2.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Latest make world breaks at games/atc. lex.l tries to include > grammar.tab.h, which doesn't exist. I'm not sure what's broken, but I > noticed in the Makefile that a clean target is grammer.tab.h (notice > grammer, not grammar), so that's probably wrong at least. > > I'd kinda like to know why PHK is backing out his changes. Partly because I cannot spell :-) (se other email for real reason). -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 11:54:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA09405 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA09376; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ae03615; 3 Jun 96 19:20 +0100 Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa21271; 3 Jun 96 19:19 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA00246; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:13:44 GMT Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:13:44 GMT Message-Id: <199606031913.TAA00246@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: toor@dyson.iquest.net CC: dyson@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199606030406.XAA00610@dyson.iquest.net> (toor@dyson.iquest.net) Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wrote:- > > I only wish I could get this machine to panic 8-) Got one at last! panic: freeing held page, count=1, pindex=0(0x0) #0 boot (howto=260) at ../../i386/i386/machdep.c:940 940 dumppcb.pcb_ptd = rcr3(); (kgdb) where #0 boot (howto=260) at ../../i386/i386/machdep.c:940 #1 0xf0113e87 in panic (fmt=0xf0101328 "from debugger") at ../../kern/subr_prf.c:127 #2 0xf0101345 in db_panic (dummy1=-267375504, dummy2=0, dummy3=-1, dummy4=0xefbffb60 "") at ../../ddb/db_command.c:395 #3 0xf010122e in db_command (last_cmdp=0xf01e6b34, cmd_table=0xf01e6994) at ../../ddb/db_command.c:288 #4 0xf01013ad in db_command_loop () at ../../ddb/db_command.c:417 #5 0xf0103718 in db_trap (type=12, code=0) at ../../ddb/db_trap.c:73 #6 0xf01aad0a in kdb_trap (type=12, code=0, regs=0xefbffcb0) at ../../i386/i386/db_interface.c:136 #7 0xf01b3c1f in trap_fatal (frame=0xefbffcb0) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:736 #8 0xf01b371c in trap_pfault (frame=0xefbffcb0, usermode=0) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:651 #9 0xf01b33af in trap (frame={tf_es = 16, tf_ds = 16, tf_edi = 0, tf_esi = 20, tf_ebp = -272630536, tf_isp = -272630568, tf_ebx = 0, tf_edx = -267375636, tf_ecx = 980, tf_eax = 9, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 0, tf_eip = -267375504, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 66199, tf_esp = 0, tf_ss = 0}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:319 #10 0xf01ab581 in calltrap () #11 0xf010122e in db_command (last_cmdp=0xf01e6b34, cmd_table=0xf01e6994) at ../../ddb/db_command.c:288 #12 0xf01013ad in db_command_loop () at ../../ddb/db_command.c:417 #13 0xf0103718 in db_trap (type=3, code=0) at ../../ddb/db_trap.c:73 #14 0xf01aad0a in kdb_trap (type=3, code=0, regs=0xefbffe24) at ../../i386/i386/db_interface.c:136 #15 0xf01b345c in trap (frame={tf_es = 16, tf_ds = 16, tf_edi = -1073527590, tf_esi = -266719685, tf_ebp = -272630168, tf_isp = -272630196, tf_ebx = 256, tf_edx = -266686715, tf_ecx = 2720, tf_eax = 18, tf_trapno = 3, tf_err = 0, tf_eip = -266686669, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 582, tf_esp = -266686731, tf_ss = -267305442}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:399 #16 0xf01ab581 in calltrap () #17 0xf0113e7e in panic ( fmt=0xf01a2e3b "freeing held page, count=%d, pindex=%d(0x%x)") at ../../kern/subr_prf.c:125 #18 0xf01a2f47 in vm_page_free (m=0xf027b6a0) at ../../vm/vm_page.c:755 #19 0xf01af914 in pmap_release (pmap=0xf0bb9564) at ../../i386/i386/pmap.c:711 #20 0xf019cea4 in vmspace_free (vm=0xf0bb9500) at ../../vm/vm_map.c:264 #21 0xf01b76aa in cpu_wait (p=0xf0ba0900) at ../../i386/i386/vm_machdep.c:628 #22 0xf0109305 in wait1 (q=0xf0bee500, uap=0xefbfff94, retval=0xefbfff84, compat=0) at ../../kern/kern_exit.c:426 #23 0xf0109133 in wait4 (p=0xf0bee500, uap=0xefbfff94, retval=0xefbfff84) at ../../kern/kern_exit.c:323 #24 0xf01b3ee9 in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 0, tf_esi = 4, tf_ebp = -272639096, tf_isp = -272629788, tf_ebx = 134840416, tf_edx = -644661702, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = 7, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 7, tf_eip = 134645077, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 534, tf_esp = -272639120, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:890 #25 0xf01ab5d5 in Xsyscall () #26 0x12f31 in ?? () #27 0xefbfdfdc in ?? () #28 0x120b0 in ?? () #29 0xde19 in ?? () #30 0xccd2 in ?? () #31 0x16cce in ?? () #32 0x1683f in ?? () #33 0x10d3 in ?? () (kgdb) up 15 #15 0xf01b345c in trap (frame={tf_es = 16, tf_ds = 16, tf_edi = -1073527590, tf_esi = -266719685, tf_ebp = -272630168, tf_isp = -272630196, tf_ebx = 256, tf_edx = -266686715, tf_ecx = 2720, tf_eax = 18, tf_trapno = 3, tf_err = 0, tf_eip = -266686669, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 582, tf_esp = -266686731, tf_ss = -267305442}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:399 399 if (kdb_trap (type, 0, &frame)) (kgdb) list 394 /* 395 * If DDB is enabled, let it handle the debugger trap. 396 * Otherwise, debugger traps "can't happen". 397 */ 398 #ifdef DDB 399 if (kdb_trap (type, 0, &frame)) 400 return; 401 #endif 402 break; 403 (kgdb) up #16 0xf01ab581 in calltrap () (kgdb) #17 0xf0113e7e in panic ( fmt=0xf01a2e3b "freeing held page, count=%d, pindex=%d(0x%x)") at ../../kern/subr_prf.c:125 125 Debugger ("panic"); (kgdb) #18 0xf01a2f47 in vm_page_free (m=0xf027b6a0) at ../../vm/vm_page.c:755 755 panic("freeing held page, count=%d, pindex=%d(0x%x)", (kgdb) #19 0xf01af914 in pmap_release (pmap=0xf0bb9564) at ../../i386/i386/pmap.c:711 711 vm_page_free(p); (kgdb) do #18 0xf01a2f47 in vm_page_free (m=0xf027b6a0) at ../../vm/vm_page.c:755 755 panic("freeing held page, count=%d, pindex=%d(0x%x)", (kgdb) list 750 else 751 panic("vm_page_free: freeing busy page"); 752 } 753 754 if (m->hold_count) { 755 panic("freeing held page, count=%d, pindex=%d(0x%x)", 756 m->hold_count, m->pindex, m->pindex); 757 } 758 759 vm_page_remove(m); (kgdb) p m $1 = (struct vm_page *) 0xf027b6a0 (kgdb) p *m $2 = {pageq = {tqe_next = 0xf02802f0, tqe_prev = 0xf026a120}, hashq = { tqe_next = 0xf02986e0, tqe_prev = 0xf029a3f8}, listq = { tqe_next = 0xf02802f0, tqe_prev = 0xf028dd70}, object = 0xf0cd0f00, pindex = 0, phys_addr = 13430784, queue = 0, flags = 36, wire_count = 1, hold_count = 1, act_count = 0 '\000', busy = 0 '\000', valid = 255 '', dirty = 0 '\000'} (kgdb) up #19 0xf01af914 in pmap_release (pmap=0xf0bb9564) at ../../i386/i386/pmap.c:711 711 vm_page_free(p); (kgdb) p p $3 = (struct vm_page *) 0xf027b6a0 (kgdb) p *p $4 = {pageq = {tqe_next = 0xf02802f0, tqe_prev = 0xf026a120}, hashq = { tqe_next = 0xf02986e0, tqe_prev = 0xf029a3f8}, listq = { tqe_next = 0xf02802f0, tqe_prev = 0xf028dd70}, object = 0xf0cd0f00, pindex = 0, phys_addr = 13430784, queue = 0, flags = 36, wire_count = 1, hold_count = 1, act_count = 0 '\000', busy = 0 '\000', valid = 255 '', dirty = 0 '\000'} (kgdb) list 706 pde[APTDPTDI] = 0; 707 pde[PTDPTDI] = 0; 708 pmap_kremove((vm_offset_t) pmap->pm_pdir); 709 } 710 711 vm_page_free(p); 712 TAILQ_REMOVE(&vm_page_queue_free, p, pageq); 713 TAILQ_INSERT_HEAD(&vm_page_queue_zero, p, pageq); 714 p->queue = PQ_ZERO; 715 splx(s); (kgdb) p p->object $5 = (struct vm_object *) 0xf0cd0f00 (kgdb) p *(p->object) $6 = {object_list = {tqe_next = 0xf0c92f80, tqe_prev = 0xf0caa680}, cached_list = {tqe_next = 0x0, tqe_prev = 0x4000}, shadow_head = { tqh_first = 0x0, tqh_last = 0xf0cd0f10}, shadow_list = {tqe_next = 0x0, tqe_prev = 0x0}, memq = {tqh_first = 0xf028dd60, tqh_last = 0xf0293aa0}, type = OBJT_DEFAULT, size = 960, ref_count = 1, shadow_count = 0, flags = 128, paging_in_progress = 0, behavior = 0, resident_page_count = 4, paging_offset = 0x0000000000000000, backing_object = 0x0, backing_object_offset = 0x0000000000000000, last_read = 0, pager_object_list = {tqe_next = 0xf0c86900, tqe_prev = 0xf0c8dbdc}, handle = 0x0, un_pager = {vnp = {vnp_size = 0x0000000000000001}, devp = { devp_pglist = {tqh_first = 0x1, tqh_last = 0x0}}, swp = { swp_nblocks = 1, swp_allocsize = 0, swp_blocks = 0x0, swp_poip = 0}}} (kgdb) q Hope this helps. I'm not in any hurry to delete the core, so let me know if there's any other useful info I can get from it. -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland | http://freefall.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ james@jraynard.demon.co.uk | jraynard@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 12:13:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA10373 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10368 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA01572 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:12:55 -0700 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ab03794; 3 Jun 96 19:21 +0100 Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa21498; 3 Jun 96 19:20 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id PAA00319; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 15:49:09 GMT Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 15:49:09 GMT Message-Id: <199606031549.PAA00319@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: grog@lemis.de CC: toor@dyson.iquest.net, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199606030806.KAA10420@allegro.lemis.de> (grog@lemis.de) Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Well, you are right :-), if no panic, then no p->flags :-). > > Is there somewhere in the kernel where I could set a breakpoint to > recover these values? On a related note, is there any way to stop X grabbing the Ctl-Alt sequence and drop into DDB? -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland | http://freefall.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ james@jraynard.demon.co.uk | jraynard@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 13:54:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA17565 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17500; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA02129 ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:54:00 -0700 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id aa23246; 3 Jun 96 20:58 +0100 Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa22615; 3 Jun 96 20:57 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA00618; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:36:28 GMT Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:36:28 GMT Message-Id: <199606031936.TAA00618@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: toor@dyson.iquest.net CC: dyson@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199606031913.TAA00246@jraynard.demon.co.uk> (fcurrent) Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> James Raynard writes: > > I wrote:- > > > I only wish I could get this machine to panic 8-) > > Got one at last! And I was so excited I forgot the minor detail of which code this was with 8-) This was with all the latest kernel code as of last night, ie version 1.98 of pmap. Sorry about that. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 14:53:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA21175 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 14:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA21170 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 14:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilligan.eng.umd.edu (gilligan.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.205]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA29473 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 17:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by gilligan.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA28610; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 17:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 17:53:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@gilligan.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD current Subject: lockup Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't know what to attribute this to yet, but 3 times since I completed my machine upgrade, the keyboard and mouse have locked up. Maybe more than that. I have a second machine, from which I can successfully ping the locked up machine, but things like rlogin and ftp don't elicit any response. I've tried to see if it's time, but a 30 minute wait didn't clear anything up. This always happens when I try something big, first time when I was trying to compile Modula-3, which quite possibly ate all my 96 megs of swap (yeah, it does that). This last time, I did it while I was trying to start up Mathematica (for the fist time, after getting the license info set up for the new machine). My only choice so far has been to hit reset, then to reboot single user and manually fsck all partitions. Gotta do that, because I get a 2nd panic from the PCI driver if I don't. Arghh, maybe I should have written down the second panic info? I don't know if the PCI is involved in the initial lockups or not. Anyhow, the new machine is a Tyan Tomcat, P5-166, 32M RAM, 512 PBC cache. Disks interface via an NCR pci controller. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 15:09:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21865 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 15:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21855 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 15:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA15570; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 16:08:18 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 16:08:18 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606032208.QAA15570@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Chuck Robey Cc: FreeBSD current Subject: Re: lockup In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't know what to attribute this to yet, but 3 times since I completed > my machine upgrade, the keyboard and mouse have locked up. Maybe more > than that. ... Are you using the PS/2 mouse interface, or a serial mouse? If the former, then get the latter as that's probably your problem. :) nate From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 16:04:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA26748 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 16:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA26732 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 16:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilligan.eng.umd.edu (gilligan.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.205]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA01703; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:04:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by gilligan.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA28651; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:04:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@gilligan.eng.umd.edu To: Nate Williams cc: FreeBSD current Subject: Re: lockup In-Reply-To: <199606032208.QAA15570@rocky.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, Nate Williams wrote: > > I don't know what to attribute this to yet, but 3 times since I completed > > my machine upgrade, the keyboard and mouse have locked up. Maybe more > > than that. > ... > > Are you using the PS/2 mouse interface, or a serial mouse? If the > former, then get the latter as that's probably your problem. :) Serial mouse, same one as was on the 486DX2-66 before it. I think (but I have no info to back it up) that it was the increased disk acitivity that kicked it off. I have no idea as to what system going wrong caused it, it's a lockup, not a panic. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 18:49:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA03612 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gordius.gordian.com (gordius.gordian.com [192.73.220.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA03602 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from delphi.gordian.com (delphi.gordian.com [192.73.220.125]) by gordius.gordian.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA23265 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by delphi.gordian.com (8.7.2/8.6.9) id SAA12823; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606040148.SAA12823@delphi.gordian.com> From: Steve Khoo To: freebsd-current-digest@FreeBSD.ORG CC: steve@gordian.com Subject: NFS problem: Irix 5.2 server, 2.2-960501-SNAP client Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have an interesting nfs problem... The server is running irix 5.2 and the client is running 2.2-960501-SNAP. The mount exit without any error, but when I do df, ls or pwd I get the following: # df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/sd0a 49231 14290 31003 32% / /dev/sd0s1f 1388387 446552 830765 35% /usr /dev/sd0s1e 49231 797 44496 2% /var procfs 4 4 0 100% /proc hermes:/n/hermes 1468230 1316047 152183 90% /n/hermes hermes:/n/hermes2 997025 867008 130016 87% /n/hermes2 delphi:/n/delphi 639048 639048 0 100% /n/delphi delphi:/n/delphi2 639048 639048 0 100% /n/delphi2 # cd /n/delphi # ls ls: .: Not a directory # pwd pwd: Not a directory # The last two filesystems listed in df are the problem filesystems. The funny thing is, I can nfs mount another SGI(hermes) also running irix 5.2 without any problems. The server with problems(delphi) is a Challenge S server and (hermes) is Indigo. The only difference I can think of is, (hermes) was upgraded from irix 4.05 and the filesystem was created in irix 4.05. All filesystems on (delphi) was created in irix 5.2. Any ideas? I'd appreciate any help. Thanks! SEK From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 3 23:23:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA19233 for current-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 23:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp (marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp [133.6.57.68]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA19227 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 23:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp (8.7.4+2.6Wbeta6/3.3W9) with ESMTP id PAA01813; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 15:22:50 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199606040622.PAA01813@marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp> To: kato@eclogite.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: vwakup: neg numoutput In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 01 Jun 1996 03:39:03 +0900" References: <199605311839.DAA01782@marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.1, Mule 2.3 X-PGP-Fingerprint: CA 87 00 60 BB BA 0C 81 A8 FB AA 6A 3A B0 38 9E Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 15:22:49 +0900 From: KATO Takenori Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > panic: vwakeup: neg numoutput Revision 1.36 vfs_cluster.c works without panicing. Thanks! ---- KATO Takenori Dept. Earth Planet. Sci., Nagoya Univ., Nagoya, 464-01, Japan Voice: +81-52-789-2529 Fax: +81-52-789-3033 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 00:04:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA21795 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 00:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA21790 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 00:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uQqAY-0004JrC; Tue, 4 Jun 96 00:04 PDT Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 00:04:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Useful sysinstall patch. In-Reply-To: <22630.833740975@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On my home PC, I usually have lots of OS's installed (for example NT, Win95, FreeBSD, and Solaris/x86), so a good FDISK program is essential. The other day I decided to repartition things, so after backing everything up, I discovered NT's Disk Manager had trashed Solaris' boot loader, then while trying to fix Solaris, a bug in their install program hosed the first HD's FDISK! Trying to repair things, I discovered FreeBSD's Sysinstall FDISK will only allow you to create FreeBSD partitions, and what's worse, if you decide to be clever like I did, and create a FreeBSD partition the same size as the underlying DOS partition I was trying to recover, when you commit the changes, libdisk writes lots of nasty FreeBSD boot code into the partition, ruining the chances of trying to get at the old DOS partition! Anyway, as necessity is the mother of invention, here is a patch which prompts you to enter the partition type when you create a partition. Pressing Enter chooses the default, a FreeBSD native partition, or you can type a different ID, for example 6 is a DOS partition, and 131 creates a Linux partition. The explanation should be understandable, I hope it won't confuse any new users. I think that people who intend to install multiple OS's on a new disk (for example DOS and FreeBSD) will really benefit from this change, as will the small number of hackers (basically myself) who would actually try to use Sysinstall to restore a hosed FDISK partition to old values. :-) If you choose anything other than FreeBSD, libdisk will not do ANYTHING to the underlying partition, but it is a simple matter, for example, to reboot and run DOS FORMAT if that's what you want. Enjoy! ---Jake *** disks.c.orig Mon Jun 3 22:32:35 1996 --- disks.c Mon Jun 3 23:54:02 1996 *************** *** 271,277 **** msg = "Partition in use, delete it first or move to an unused one."; else { char *val, tmp[20], *cp; ! int size; snprintf(tmp, 20, "%d", chunk_info[current_chunk]->size); val = msgGetInput(tmp, "Please specify the size for new FreeBSD partition in blocks, or append\n" --- 271,278 ---- msg = "Partition in use, delete it first or move to an unused one."; else { char *val, tmp[20], *cp; ! int size, subtype; ! chunk_e partitiontype; snprintf(tmp, 20, "%d", chunk_info[current_chunk]->size); val = msgGetInput(tmp, "Please specify the size for new FreeBSD partition in blocks, or append\n" *************** *** 279,288 **** if (val && (size = strtol(val, &cp, 0)) > 0) { if (*cp && toupper(*cp) == 'M') size *= ONE_MEG; ! Create_Chunk(d, chunk_info[current_chunk]->offset, size, freebsd, 3, (chunk_info[current_chunk]->flags & CHUNK_ALIGN)); variable_set2(DISK_PARTITIONED, "yes"); record_chunks(d); } } break; --- 280,307 ---- if (val && (size = strtol(val, &cp, 0)) > 0) { if (*cp && toupper(*cp) == 'M') size *= ONE_MEG; ! strcpy(tmp, "165"); ! val = msgGetInput(tmp, "Enter type of partition to create." ! " Pressing Enter will choose the default,\na native" ! " FreeBSD partition (type 165). You can choose other" ! " types, for\nexample, enter 6 for a DOS partition, or 131" ! " for a Linux partition.\nNote: If you choose a non-FreeBSD" ! " partition type, it will not be\nformatted or otherwise" ! " prepared, it will simply reserve space for you to use" ! "\nanother tool, such as DOS FORMAT, to format the" ! " partition."); ! if (val && (subtype = strtol(val, NULL, 0)) > 0) { ! if (subtype==165) ! partitiontype=freebsd; ! else if (subtype==6) ! partitiontype=fat; ! else ! partitiontype=unknown; ! Create_Chunk(d, chunk_info[current_chunk]->offset, size, partitiontype, subtype, (chunk_info[current_chunk]->flags & CHUNK_ALIGN)); variable_set2(DISK_PARTITIONED, "yes"); record_chunks(d); + } } } break; From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 01:07:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA25168 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 01:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA25159 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 01:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uQr9X-000QZuC; Tue, 4 Jun 96 10:07 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA12693; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:00:13 +0200 Message-Id: <199606040800.KAA12693@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk (James Raynard) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:47:32 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) In-Reply-To: <199606031549.PAA00319@jraynard.demon.co.uk> from "James Raynard" at Jun 3, 96 03:49:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk James Raynard writes: > >>> Well, you are right :-), if no panic, then no p->flags :-). >> >> Is there somewhere in the kernel where I could set a breakpoint to >> recover these values? > > On a related note, is there any way to stop X grabbing the Ctl-Alt > sequence and drop into DDB? We discussed this a while back while talking about ddb. The problem is that it's almost impossible to find a way to set the display card back to text mode. Greg From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 03:30:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA02781 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 03:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from masternet.it (masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02774 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 03:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from socrate.gea.org (ts1port11d.masternet.it [194.184.65.33]) by masternet.it (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA32270 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:26:55 +0200 Message-ID: <31B414AD.15FB7483@masternet.it> Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 12:49:17 +0200 From: Beck Peccoz Amedeo X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Can't make world!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Trying to compile the whole system I get ------------ cc -fpic -DPIC -O -I. -I/usr/src/lib/libncurses -Wall -DMYTINFO -DGOOD_SELECT -c /usr/src/lib/libncurses/lib_insstr.c -o lib_insstr.so cc: Internal compiler error: program cc1 got fatal signal 10 *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. {19} /usr/src# ------------ I deleted /usr/src/*, applied the CTM included in the CD-ROM (1500-1609) and those who came out in the meanwhile (1610-1849), gave 'make world' twice and got the result above? Any idea? Please note that the CD-ROM hangs as well and that while compiling the kernel I get some warnings from time to time. Are theese problems related each other? Thanks to all those willing to answer. -- Beck-Peccoz Amedeo GEA Software S.r.l. Via Deffeyes, 1 11025 Gressoney Saint Jean (AO) ITALY Tel. ++39-125-366302 Fax. ++39-125-366415 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 04:13:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA04224 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 04:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA04218 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 04:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA07170; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 21:02:33 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606041132.VAA07170@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Can't make world!!! To: gea@masternet.it (Beck Peccoz Amedeo) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 21:02:32 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <31B414AD.15FB7483@masternet.it> from "Beck Peccoz Amedeo" at Jun 4, 96 12:49:17 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Beck Peccoz Amedeo stands accused of saying: > > cc -fpic -DPIC -O -I. -I/usr/src/lib/libncurses -Wall -DMYTINFO > -DGOOD_SELECT -c /usr/src/lib/libncurses/lib_insstr.c -o lib_insstr.so > cc: Internal compiler error: program cc1 got fatal signal 10 This is often indicative of a memory problem. Have you successfully built the world on this machine before? It may also be due to VM problems as there are number of shakedowns occurring in that area at the moment. I'd stay away from -current for another week or so to let the gurus sort it out, unless you're in a position to help them. > 'make world' twice and got the result above? Any idea? At exactly the same point each time? > Please note that the CD-ROM hangs as well and that while compiling the > kernel I get some warnings from time to time. Are theese problems > related each other? The kernel warnings are "normal", as for your CD hanging, with no details as to what it is or what makes it hang, nobody can possibly answer that. > Beck-Peccoz Amedeo -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 04:40:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA05593 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 04:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA05527 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 04:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uQuNZ-000QaNC; Tue, 4 Jun 96 13:34 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA13089; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:00:46 +0200 Message-Id: <199606041100.NAA13089@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:00:46 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) In-Reply-To: <199606021959.OAA00644@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jun 2, 96 02:59:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John S. Dyson writes: > >> >> I had quite a few start-up crashes with Emacs as well. >> >> I'm currently compiling a ctm 2068 kernel. I'll post again if there >> are any new developments. >> > If you have pmap.c v1.97 you have the latest. There are a couple of > people (including you) who are helping immensely. Thanks for being > patient. The more info you can send me, the better the chance that > I can help (and you can help me.) If at all possible, of course a stack > traceback is minimum (and very helpful.) But sometimes the (p->pindex, > p->flags, p->queue, and maybe p->object->type) are all very helpful. I've now built a new kernel with ctm 2072 (pmap.c 1.98). I'm still getting dying Emacsen: === root@freebie (/dev/ttyp2) /usr/home/grog 1 -> emacs& [1] 220 === root@freebie (/dev/ttyp2) /usr/home/grog 2 -> Invalid function: [] [1]+ Exit 255 emacs === root@freebie (/dev/ttyp2) /usr/home/grog 2 -> emacs& [1] 221 === root@freebie (/dev/ttyp2) /usr/home/grog 3 -> emacs& [2] 222 Jun 4 12:44:19 freebie /kernel: pid 221 (emacs), uid 0: exited on signal 11 [1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) emacs === root@freebie (/dev/ttyp2) /usr/home/grog 4 -> emacs& [3] 223 [2] Abort trap (core dumped) emacs Jun 4 12:44:27 freebie /kernel: pid 222 (emacs), uid 0: exited on signal 6 PID 223 started normally and has been running ever since (well, 5 minutes, but it's always been my experience that if it runs this long, it'll continue to run). Another point of interest: this machine has 16 MB of memory and 32 MB swap, but lately when I build a kernel (with debug symbols) I get a number of Jun 4 12:27:25 freebie /kernel: swap_pager: out of swap space Jun 4 12:27:38 freebie /kernel: swap_pager: out of swap space I think these messages are bogus. I can build kernels on another machine (running -stable), with only 8 MB memory and 32 MB swap, and I don't have any trouble. Is there any way to monitor swap space usage? Another point that was mentioned: options DIAGNOSTIC. I have this in my kernel too. Is there any reason why this should make a difference? Anyway, just for completeness' sake I'm building a kernel without DIAGNOSTIC, and will report. Greg From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 06:14:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA10813 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 06:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miller.cs.uwm.edu (miller.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.9.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA10808 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 06:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from james@localhost) by miller.cs.uwm.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA08738; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:14:06 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:14:06 -0500 From: Jim Lowe Message-Id: <199606041314.IAA08738@miller.cs.uwm.edu> To: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, grog@lemis.de Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) > Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG > To: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk (James Raynard) > > James Raynard writes: > > > >>> Well, you are right :-), if no panic, then no p->flags :-). > >> > >> Is there somewhere in the kernel where I could set a breakpoint to > >> recover these values? > > > > On a related note, is there any way to stop X grabbing the Ctl-Alt > > sequence and drop into DDB? > > We discussed this a while back while talking about ddb. The problem > is that it's almost impossible to find a way to set the display card > back to text mode. > > Greg > > Syscons seems to be able to do this just fine via . It would sure be nice to be able to drop into the debugger when running X w/o having to switch to another virtual console first. -Jim From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 08:00:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA19872 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA19813 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA07803; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 00:47:36 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606041517.AAA07803@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: james@miller.cs.uwm.edu (Jim Lowe) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 00:47:35 +0930 (CST) Cc: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, grog@lemis.de, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606041314.IAA08738@miller.cs.uwm.edu> from "Jim Lowe" at Jun 4, 96 08:14:06 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jim Lowe stands accused of saying: > > > > We discussed this a while back while talking about ddb. The problem > > is that it's almost impossible to find a way to set the display card > > back to text mode. > > > Syscons seems to be able to do this just fine via . It > would sure be nice to be able to drop into the debugger when running X > w/o having to switch to another virtual console first. Syscons doesn't do that, the X server does. You could perhaps teach the X server about alt-ctrl-esc, but if the system is wedged, that may not help very much. > -Jim -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 09:49:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA24301 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:49:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24295 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:49:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA27019; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:44:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606041644.JAA27019@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:44:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199606040800.KAA12693@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Jun 4, 96 09:47:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On a related note, is there any way to stop X grabbing the Ctl-Alt > > sequence and drop into DDB? > > We discussed this a while back while talking about ddb. The problem > is that it's almost impossible to find a way to set the display card > back to text mode. Not impossible, but it would require a rewrite of most of the console code and better support for driver fallback (meaning that the default console driver that needs to be there before the video is probed should be in seperate, discardable segments -- COFF or ELF required). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 09:51:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA24967 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-178.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.178]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA24292; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA00980; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 00:59:30 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606032259.AAA00980@vector.jhs.no_domain> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.jhs.no_domain: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: current@freebsd.org Cc: terry@lambert.org, bostic@cs.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: editors From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany Phone: +49.89.268616 Fax: +49.89.2608126 (later) Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Mailer: EXMH version 1.6.5 95 12 11, PGP available In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 May 1996 22:57:37 +0200." <199605292057.WAA02017@vector.jhs.no_domain> Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 00:59:29 +0200 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To current@freebsd.org, Cc Terry Lambert, Keith Bostic Reference my: > From: "Julian H. Stacey" > > From: Terry Lambert > > > It would be dead easy to hack the status mode word on the bottom line > > > that you get with showmode: > > > `Command' --> `Youre in Command mode Type :help if stuck' > > > `Insert' --> `Youre in Insert mode Type if stuck' > > > Showmode would be preset on, from .exrc, of course. > > Uh, you mean: > > `Insert' --> `Youre in Insert mode Hit if stuck' Ah, Yes :-) Here are patches to implement a terser version of above on FreeBSD-current/usr.bin/vi, ( to stop vi newbies getting stranded ). I've tested (& installed here) with set showmode ruler showdirty. If someone would try them, & they're considered OK, maybe they're acceptable for inclusion in src/ ? --------- *** old/src/usr.bin/vi/common/screen.h Wed Aug 17 01:36:43 1994 --- new/src/usr.bin/vi/common/screen.h Sat Jun 1 16:15:40 1996 *************** *** 166,172 **** CHAR_T cname[MAX_CHARACTER_COLUMNS + 1]; size_t clen; /* Length of display character. */ ! #define MAX_MODE_NAME 12 char *showmode; /* Mode. */ void *ex_private; /* Ex private area. */ --- 166,177 ---- CHAR_T cname[MAX_CHARACTER_COLUMNS + 1]; size_t clen; /* Length of display character. */ ! /* #define MAX_MODE_NAME 12 */ ! /* Extend MAX_MODE_NAME for size of new strings like ! vi/v_text.c: "Insert until " 22 chars ! vi/vi.c: "Command :help if stuck" 25 chars ! */ ! #define MAX_MODE_NAME 27 char *showmode; /* Mode. */ void *ex_private; /* Ex private area. */ *** old/src/usr.bin/vi/vi/v_text.c Thu Aug 18 03:15:20 1994 --- new/src/usr.bin/vi/vi/v_text.c Sat Jun 1 11:34:46 1996 *************** *** 56,61 **** --- 56,66 ---- #include "vi.h" #include "vcmd.h" + static char insert_msg[] = "Insert until " ; + static char append_msg[] = "Append until " ; + static char change_msg[] = "Change until " ; + static char replace_msg[] = "Replace until " ; + /* * !!! * Repeated input in the historic vi is mostly wrong and this isn't very *************** *** 111,117 **** int first; char *p; ! sp->showmode = "Append"; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, TXT_APPENDEOL); for (first = 1, lno = vp->m_start.lno, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { --- 116,122 ---- int first; char *p; ! sp->showmode = append_msg; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, TXT_APPENDEOL); for (first = 1, lno = vp->m_start.lno, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { *************** *** 164,170 **** size_t len; char *p; ! sp->showmode = "Append"; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); for (lno = vp->m_start.lno, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { --- 169,175 ---- size_t len; char *p; ! sp->showmode = append_msg; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); for (lno = vp->m_start.lno, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { *************** *** 219,225 **** int first; char *p; ! sp->showmode = "Insert"; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); for (first = 1, lno = vp->m_start.lno, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { --- 224,230 ---- int first; char *p; ! sp->showmode = insert_msg; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); for (first = 1, lno = vp->m_start.lno, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { *************** *** 274,280 **** u_int flags; char *p; ! sp->showmode = "Insert"; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); for (lno = vp->m_start.lno, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { --- 279,285 ---- u_int flags; char *p; ! sp->showmode = insert_msg; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); for (lno = vp->m_start.lno, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { *************** *** 325,331 **** int first; char *p; ! sp->showmode = "Insert"; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, TXT_APPENDEOL); for (first = 1, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { if (sp->lno == 1) { --- 330,336 ---- int first; char *p; ! sp->showmode = insert_msg; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, TXT_APPENDEOL); for (first = 1, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { if (sp->lno == 1) { *************** *** 380,386 **** int first; char *p; ! sp->showmode = "Insert"; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, TXT_APPENDEOL); for (first = 1, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { --- 385,391 ---- int first; char *p; ! sp->showmode = insert_msg; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, TXT_APPENDEOL); for (first = 1, cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; cnt--;) { *************** *** 483,489 **** char *p; u_int flags; ! sp->showmode = "Change"; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, iflags); /* --- 488,494 ---- char *p; u_int flags; ! sp->showmode = change_msg; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, iflags); /* *************** *** 588,594 **** int lmode, rval; char *bp, *p; ! sp->showmode = "Change"; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); /* --- 593,599 ---- int lmode, rval; char *bp, *p; ! sp->showmode = change_msg; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); /* *************** *** 740,746 **** u_int flags; char *p; ! sp->showmode = "Replace"; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; --- 745,751 ---- u_int flags; char *p; ! sp->showmode = replace_msg; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); cnt = F_ISSET(vp, VC_C1SET) ? vp->count : 1; *************** *** 816,822 **** u_int flags; char *p; ! sp->showmode = "Change"; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); if ((p = file_gline(sp, ep, vp->m_start.lno, &len)) == NULL) { if (file_lline(sp, ep, &lno)) --- 821,827 ---- u_int flags; char *p; ! sp->showmode = change_msg; flags = set_txt_std(sp, vp, 0); if ((p = file_gline(sp, ep, vp->m_start.lno, &len)) == NULL) { if (file_lline(sp, ep, &lno)) *** old/src/usr.bin/vi/vi/vi.c Thu Aug 18 03:15:30 1994 --- new/src/usr.bin/vi/vi/vi.c Sat Jun 1 15:22:53 1996 *************** *** 96,102 **** for (eval = 0, vp = &cmd;;) { /* Refresh the screen. */ ! sp->showmode = "Command"; if (sp->s_refresh(sp, ep)) { eval = 1; break; --- 96,103 ---- for (eval = 0, vp = &cmd;;) { /* Refresh the screen. */ ! sp->showmode = ! "Command mode. Type `:help' if stuck"; if (sp->s_refresh(sp, ep)) { eval = 1; break; --------- Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 09:56:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA25338 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25332; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA27055; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:52:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606041652.JAA27055@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: editors To: jhs@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:52:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: current@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org, bostic@cs.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199606032259.AAA00980@vector.jhs.no_domain> from "Julian H. Stacey" at Jun 4, 96 00:59:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > It would be dead easy to hack the status mode word on the bottom line > > > > that you get with showmode: > > > > `Command' --> `Youre in Command mode Type :help if stuck' > > > > `Insert' --> `Youre in Insert mode Type if stuck' > > > > Showmode would be preset on, from .exrc, of course. > > > Uh, you mean: > > > `Insert' --> `Youre in Insert mode Hit if stuck' > > Ah, Yes :-) > Here are patches to implement a terser version of above on > FreeBSD-current/usr.bin/vi, ( to stop vi newbies getting stranded ). > > I've tested (& installed here) with set showmode ruler showdirty. > If someone would try them, & they're considered OK, > maybe they're acceptable for inclusion in src/ ? Send them to Keith first; we are vendor branching vi (I thought), and he is the source vendor. Better to not have local patches. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 09:57:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA25480 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25472 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA27039; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:50:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606041650.JAA27039@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: james@miller.cs.uwm.edu (Jim Lowe) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:50:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, grog@lemis.de, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199606041314.IAA08738@miller.cs.uwm.edu> from "Jim Lowe" at Jun 4, 96 08:14:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On a related note, is there any way to stop X grabbing the Ctl-Alt > > > sequence and drop into DDB? > > > > We discussed this a while back while talking about ddb. The problem > > is that it's almost impossible to find a way to set the display card > > back to text mode. > > Syscons seems to be able to do this just fine via . It > would sure be nice to be able to drop into the debugger when running X > w/o having to switch to another virtual console first. Syscons intercepts the key sequence and sends a message to the X server saying "restore the console to the default mode". Then the X server runs and restores the console. Then the X server sends a message to syscons saying "OK, I've restored the console". Then syscons swaps screen memory with virtual screen memory on another virtual console. Obviously, if you have invoked ddb as a result of a panic, the X server isn't going to be responding to any "restore the console to the default mode" requests, since it isn't running on a panic'ed system. The only fix would be for *all* graphic modes to be settable *only* through the console driver, so that the console driver can unset them without having to ask a user space program to do it for it. This issue is worse for DOS emulation (if we ever really get serious about that), since DOS programs aren't expecting "save yourself and restore the console to the default mode" messages, and couldn't process them if you sent them. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 11:02:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01228 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usa.nai.net (usa.nai.net [204.71.21.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01223 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chris.nai.net (chris.nai.net [204.71.21.7]) by usa.nai.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA23510 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:00:05 -0400 Message-ID: <31B4797B.324B@nai.net> Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:59:23 -0400 From: chris Reply-To: chris@usa.nai.net Organization: NAI X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b4Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: subscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk subscribe current subscribe cvs-all From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 11:04:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01358 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mongoose.bostic.com (bostic@mongoose.BSDI.COM [205.230.230.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA01353; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bostic@localhost) by mongoose.bostic.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id NAA21311; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:59:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:59:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith Bostic Message-Id: <199606041759.NAA21311@mongoose.bostic.com> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors Cc: jhs@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Reference my: >> From: "Julian H. Stacey" >>> From: Terry Lambert >>>> It would be dead easy to hack the status mode word on the bottom line >>>> that you get with showmode: >>>> `Command' --> `Youre in Command mode Type :help if stuck' >>>> `Insert' --> `Youre in Insert mode Type if stuck' >>>> Showmode would be preset on, from .exrc, of course. >>> Uh, you mean: >>> `Insert' --> `Youre in Insert mode Hit if stuck' > > Ah, Yes :-) > Here are patches to implement a terser version of above on > FreeBSD-current/usr.bin/vi, ( to stop vi newbies getting stranded ). > > I've tested (& installed here) with set showmode ruler showdirty. > If someone would try them, & they're considered OK, > maybe they're acceptable for inclusion in src/ ? I'm hesitant to do this. The reason is that this will require lots and lots of repaint characters whenever the lower line gets updated, and it's not going to fit if the ruler option is on as well. What I'd like to do is have a "novice" mode where vi splits the screen and puts a full help file into the lower half, with the common commands immediately visible. Kind of like pico... The question that I haven't been able to answer is what to use to trigger this event. I could certainly use :help, but as Julian points out, it would be nice to have something so that newbie users don't get trapped. --keith From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 11:34:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA02537 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA02532 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA22540; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606041834.LAA22540@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson), FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:00:46 +0200." <199606041100.NAA13089@allegro.lemis.de> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 11:34:49 -0700 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Another point of interest: this machine has 16 MB of memory and 32 MB >swap, but lately when I build a kernel (with debug symbols) I get a >number of > >Jun 4 12:27:25 freebie /kernel: swap_pager: out of swap space >Jun 4 12:27:38 freebie /kernel: swap_pager: out of swap space > >I think these messages are bogus. I can build kernels on another >machine (running -stable), with only 8 MB memory and 32 MB swap, and I >don't have any trouble. Is there any way to monitor swap space usage? It sound like you don't have any swapspace configured. Look at the output of pstat -s. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 12:24:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA07163 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miller.cs.uwm.edu (miller.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.9.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA07001 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from james@localhost) by miller.cs.uwm.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA16941; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:21:22 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:21:22 -0500 From: Jim Lowe Message-Id: <199606041921.OAA16941@miller.cs.uwm.edu> To: terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org, fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, grog@lemis.de Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Terry Lambert > Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG > Cc: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, grog@lemis.de, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org > > > > > On a related note, is there any way to stop X grabbing the Ctl-Alt > > > > sequence and drop into DDB? > > > > > > We discussed this a while back while talking about ddb. The problem > > > is that it's almost impossible to find a way to set the display card > > > back to text mode. > > > > Syscons seems to be able to do this just fine via . It > > would sure be nice to be able to drop into the debugger when running X > > w/o having to switch to another virtual console first. > > The only fix would be for *all* graphic modes to be settable *only* > through the console driver, so that the console driver can unset > them without having to ask a user space program to do it for it. I didn't realize that the X server was the one actually doing this. I don't think it is necessary for *all* graphics modes to be settable *only* through the console driver. Dropping the X server into the kernel seems like a big waste of space -- but I guess it is an option :-). It should be possible to download two code segments to syscons when X starts up for each particular card (or X-server). This code sequence would be ``put me into default mode'' and ``put me into graphics mode''. Of course, the X server would have to update the ``put me into graphics mode'' when you used <+,->, but that wouldn't be a big deal. In any case, it is certainly do able without teaching syscons everything that X knows. All syscons really needs to know is how to switch modes back and forth. -Jim From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 14:02:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA13237 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:02:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA13231; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:02:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199606042102.OAA13231@freefall.freebsd.org> To: bostic@bsdi.com Subject: Re: editors Cc: current Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The question that I haven't been able to answer is what to use to > trigger this event. The F1 key is a DOS-user intuitive key for this. Other triggers might be error input like hitting ESC in movement mode, a hitting non-bound key, trying to go past the beginning or end of a line, and so forth. If you do this error trigger, make sure it's configurable From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 16:29:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA22129 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA22121 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA18513; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:25:30 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199606042325.JAA18513@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:25:30 +1000 (EST) Cc: james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, grog@lemis.de, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606041650.JAA27039@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jun 4, 96 09:50:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > > On a related note, is there any way to stop X grabbing the Ctl-Alt >> > > sequence and drop into DDB? >> > >> > We discussed this a while back while talking about ddb. The problem >> > is that it's almost impossible to find a way to set the display card >> > back to text mode. >> >> Syscons seems to be able to do this just fine via . It >> would sure be nice to be able to drop into the debugger when running X >> w/o having to switch to another virtual console first. > >Syscons intercepts the key sequence and sends a message to the X server >saying "restore the console to the default mode". Then the X server Actually, for *BSD and Linux (unlike SYSV) the X server intercepts the key sequence and does a VT_ACTIVATE ioctl first, which then causes syscons to send a message to the server. The rest is as you describe. David From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 17:52:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA26186 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 17:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26181 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 17:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA27881; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 17:47:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606050047.RAA27881@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: james@miller.cs.uwm.edu (Jim Lowe) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 17:47:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org, fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, grog@lemis.de In-Reply-To: <199606041921.OAA16941@miller.cs.uwm.edu> from "Jim Lowe" at Jun 4, 96 02:21:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Syscons seems to be able to do this just fine via . It > > > would sure be nice to be able to drop into the debugger when running X > > > w/o having to switch to another virtual console first. > > > > The only fix would be for *all* graphic modes to be settable *only* > > through the console driver, so that the console driver can unset > > them without having to ask a user space program to do it for it. > > I didn't realize that the X server was the one actually doing this. > I don't think it is necessary for *all* graphics modes to be settable > *only* through the console driver. Dropping the X server into the > kernel seems like a big waste of space -- but I guess it is an option :-). Which is why you would only drop the DDX into the kernel, not the whole server, and dynamically load per-card DDX implementations other than generig VGA on an as-needed basis. > It should be possible to download two code segments to syscons when X > starts up for each particular card (or X-server). This code sequence would > be ``put me into default mode'' and ``put me into graphics mode''. Sorry, but there are gate-enable/gate-disable sequences that must be executed in order, especially for the Mach 32/64 cards. It won't work without putting more code for an interpreter than it would take to put the generic VGA DDX code down there. > Of course, the X server would have to update the ``put me into graphics mode'' > when you used <+,->, but that wouldn't be a big deal. In any case, > it is certainly do able without teaching syscons everything that X > knows. All syscons really needs to know is how to switch modes back and > forth. And all the DDX code needs to do is provide a fame-buffer style interface with certain drawing primitives abstracted for use by X, MGR, DOS emulation, Mac emulation, VGA lib, etc., etc.. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 18:25:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA29758 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA29752; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA06388; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:24:13 -0700 (PDT) To: Keith Bostic cc: current@FreeBSD.org, jhs@FreeBSD.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:59:51 EDT." <199606041759.NAA21311@mongoose.bostic.com> Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 18:24:13 -0700 Message-ID: <6386.833937853@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What I'd like to do is have a "novice" mode where vi splits the > screen and puts a full help file into the lower half, with the > common commands immediately visible. Kind of like pico... The Yep, I like that. > question that I haven't been able to answer is what to use to > trigger this event. I could certainly use :help, but as Julian How about a command line flag? I can run `vi --on-screen-help' or whatever when I know that the novice is about to be punted into vi, no sweat. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 18:38:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA00605 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA00600; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA06810; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:36:55 -0700 (PDT) To: Jeffrey Hsu cc: bostic@bsdi.com, current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Jun 1996 14:02:11 PDT." <199606042102.OAA13231@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 18:36:55 -0700 Message-ID: <6808.833938615@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The question that I haven't been able to answer is what to use to > > trigger this event. > > The F1 key is a DOS-user intuitive key for this. Other triggers > might be error input like hitting ESC in movement mode, a hitting I would make both F1 and a command-line switch do it. That would pretty much silence the vi critics who say that it's too difficult to learn.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 18:45:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA00964 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00958 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ai24874; 5 Jun 96 2:17 +0100 Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa19077; 5 Jun 96 2:04 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA03516; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 23:40:34 GMT Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 23:40:34 GMT Message-Id: <199606042340.XAA03516@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: grog@lemis.de CC: toor@dyson.iquest.net, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199606041100.NAA13089@allegro.lemis.de> (grog@lemis.de) Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've now built a new kernel with ctm 2072 (pmap.c 1.98). I'm still > getting dying Emacsen: Me too! > === root@freebie (/dev/ttyp2) /usr/home/grog 2 -> Invalid function: [] > Jun 4 12:44:19 freebie /kernel: pid 221 (emacs), uid 0: exited on signal 11 Yep, I've seen plenty of those; I also get "Invalid value for stringp: nil" and also exiting on signal 10. I also got a SIGABRT once and even a SIGILL, but those were with 1.96. > PID 223 started normally and has been running ever since (well, 5 > minutes, but it's always been my experience that if it runs this long, > it'll continue to run). I have had Emacs suddenly lock up after seeming to run happily for quite a while. > Another point of interest: this machine has 16 MB of memory and 32 MB > swap, but lately when I build a kernel (with debug symbols) I get a > number of > > Jun 4 12:27:25 freebie /kernel: swap_pager: out of swap space > Jun 4 12:27:38 freebie /kernel: swap_pager: out of swap space I've only ever seen this once, when I was trying to build a debug kernel in single-user mode. Not recommended (swap isn't mounted!) -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland | http://freefall.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ james@jraynard.demon.co.uk | jraynard@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 19:47:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA11388 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11360 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02177; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 21:42:41 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199606050242.VAA02177@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 21:42:41 -0500 (EST) Cc: james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, terry@lambert.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org, fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, grog@lemis.de In-Reply-To: <199606050047.RAA27881@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jun 4, 96 05:47:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This discussion of trying to solve the problem of a GUI leaving the console in a state that the kernel doesn't know how to change during a system crash is interesting. There is a potential solution (hack) that I don't remember being mentioned. HACK ALERT!!!: Specify a callback into user space -- wired specially, with a special system call, that the kernel (syscons, pcvt, etc) can call in the case of a crash to fix the problem. To make it easiest on the kernel VM people, it would be nice if it would be a self-contained module and PIC. We don't support user space ISRs (yet), but this isn't very different from an user space ISR. Just a thought. John From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 19:59:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA15889 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA15869 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA02177; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 21:42:41 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199606050242.VAA02177@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 21:42:41 -0500 (EST) Cc: james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, terry@lambert.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org, fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, grog@lemis.de In-Reply-To: <199606050047.RAA27881@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jun 4, 96 05:47:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This discussion of trying to solve the problem of a GUI leaving the console in a state that the kernel doesn't know how to change during a system crash is interesting. There is a potential solution (hack) that I don't remember being mentioned. HACK ALERT!!!: Specify a callback into user space -- wired specially, with a special system call, that the kernel (syscons, pcvt, etc) can call in the case of a crash to fix the problem. To make it easiest on the kernel VM people, it would be nice if it would be a self-contained module and PIC. We don't support user space ISRs (yet), but this isn't very different from an user space ISR. Just a thought. John From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 4 20:38:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA19268 for current-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19250; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA10119; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 22:02:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu: jfieber owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 22:02:45 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Keith Bostic , current@freebsd.org, jhs@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <6386.833937853@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > How about a command line flag? I can run `vi --on-screen-help' > or whatever when I know that the novice is about to be punted into > vi, no sweat. How about some code that detects new users? When it does, then an ascii graphic Wizard will come on the screen and help the user through their tasks. There could be a wizard to explain all cool features, and sepcial help for recovering WordPerfect users... Huh? Oh, sorry I thought this was a Microsoft mailing lists. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 00:53:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA22629 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 00:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA22621; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 00:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA08376; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 00:52:30 -0700 (PDT) To: John Fieber cc: Keith Bostic , current@freebsd.org, jhs@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Jun 1996 22:02:45 CDT." Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 00:52:30 -0700 Message-ID: <8374.833961150@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How about some code that detects new users? When it does, then > an ascii graphic Wizard will come on the screen and help the user > through their tasks. There could be a wizard to explain all > cool features, and sepcial help for recovering WordPerfect > users... Har har. Actually, it's sort of considered "cool" in the UNIX world to bash Microsoft and Apple as somehow less than macho, the inference being that UNIX is far more of a power tool and would not lower itself to being used by mere users. In reality, the best compromise lies somewhere in between. Make a tool stand out of your way when you know how to use it, give it some standardized way of documenting itself when you don't. Very few operating systems have managed this kind of balance, which is why most of them SUCK in one or more fairly major degrees. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 01:47:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA29669 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 01:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA29658 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 01:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uREFC-000QbTC; Wed, 5 Jun 96 10:47 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA07991; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:27:53 +0200 Message-Id: <199606050827.KAA07991@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk (James Raynard) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:27:53 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) In-Reply-To: <199606042340.XAA03516@jraynard.demon.co.uk> from "James Raynard" at Jun 4, 96 11:40:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk James Raynard writes: > > > > I've now built a new kernel with ctm 2072 (pmap.c 1.98). I'm still > > getting dying Emacsen: > > Me too! > > > === root@freebie (/dev/ttyp2) /usr/home/grog 2 -> Invalid function: [] > > > Jun 4 12:44:19 freebie /kernel: pid 221 (emacs), uid 0: exited on signal 11 > > Yep, I've seen plenty of those; I also get "Invalid value for stringp: > nil" and also exiting on signal 10. I also got a SIGABRT once and even > a SIGILL, but those were with 1.96. > > > PID 223 started normally and has been running ever since (well, 5 > > minutes, but it's always been my experience that if it runs this long, > > it'll continue to run). > > I have had Emacs suddenly lock up after seeming to run happily for > quite a while. > > > Another point of interest: this machine has 16 MB of memory and 32 MB > > swap, but lately when I build a kernel (with debug symbols) I get a > > number of > > > > Jun 4 12:27:25 freebie /kernel: swap_pager: out of swap space > > Jun 4 12:27:38 freebie /kernel: swap_pager: out of swap space > > I've only ever seen this once, when I was trying to build a debug > kernel in single-user mode. Not recommended (swap isn't mounted!) > > -- > James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland | http://freefall.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ > james@jraynard.demon.co.uk | jraynard@freebsd.org > > From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 02:56:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA07069 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 02:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA07039 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 02:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uRFJk-000QaPC; Wed, 5 Jun 96 11:55 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA08033; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:53:51 +0200 Message-Id: <199606050853.KAA08033@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:53:51 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) In-Reply-To: <199606041834.LAA22540@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Jun 4, 96 11:34:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman writes: > >> Another point of interest: this machine has 16 MB of memory and 32 MB >> swap, but lately when I build a kernel (with debug symbols) I get a >> number of >> >> Jun 4 12:27:25 freebie /kernel: swap_pager: out of swap space >> Jun 4 12:27:38 freebie /kernel: swap_pager: out of swap space >> >> I think these messages are bogus. I can build kernels on another >> machine (running -stable), with only 8 MB memory and 32 MB swap, and I >> don't have any trouble. Is there any way to monitor swap space usage? > > It sound like you don't have any swapspace configured. Look at the output > of pstat -s. Watch my lips: this machine has 16 MB of memory and 32 MB swap. Here's a pstat -s output: # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 13740 18964 42% Interleaved # ps aux | awk ' {sum += $5 }; END {print sum}' 12636 OK, it's clear that the VSZ is only an approximation (John has already gone into more detail on that one), but there seems to be a *very* large discrepancy between the 12.6 MB VSZ and the 30 MB sum of main memory and used swap. I'd guess that the system is leaking swap somewhere. Greg From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 02:56:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA07178 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 02:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA07166 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 02:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uRFJk-000QZQC; Wed, 5 Jun 96 11:55 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA08078 for FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:04:42 +0200 Message-Id: <199606050904.LAA08078@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: More on VM, swap leaks To: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:04:42 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, to follow up on my last message, I rebooted my machine and tried to start emacs. Here's what happened (this is put together from displays on two different xterms): After booting: # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 1364 31340 4% Interleaved # emacs & [1] 246 (see SIGSEGV message on logfile display) # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 3820 28884 12% Interleaved # emacs & [2] 248 [1] Segmentation fault (core dumped) emacs # Invalid function: [# # [2]+ Segmentation fault (core dumped) emacs # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 4304 28400 13% Interleaved # emacs & [1] 250 (this one works) # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 6320 26384 19% Interleaved (stop emacs) # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 6320 26384 19% Interleaved # So, here I am, three Emacsen later, all stopped, and I have 5 MB less swap than before. Can anybody else reproduce these results? Greg From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 02:58:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA07299 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 02:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from masternet.it (root@masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA07279 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 02:58:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from socrate.gea.org (ts1port1d.masternet.it [194.184.65.23]) by masternet.it (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA10931 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:55:43 +0200 Message-ID: <31B54D9D.41C67EA6@masternet.it> Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 11:04:29 +0200 From: Beck Peccoz Amedeo X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: CD-ROM hags the machine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm running FreeBSD current (ctm 1849) and the CD-ROM hangs the system after few seconds of disk access producing the following on the console: Jun 5 10:36:21 socrate /kernel: cd0(ahc0:3:0): timed out in dataout phase, SCSISIGI == 0x48 Jun 5 10:36:21 socrate /kernel: cd0(ahc0:3:0): timed out in dataout phase, SCSISIGI == 0x48 Jun 5 10:36:30 socrate /kernel: cd0(ahc0:3:0): BUS DEVICE RESET message queued. Jun 5 10:36:30 socrate /kernel: cd0(ahc0:3:0): BUS DEVICE RESET message queued. Jun 5 10:36:33 socrate /kernel: Bus Device Reset Message Sent Jun 5 10:36:33 socrate /kernel: Bus Device Reset Message Sent The only way to get out of this is to shut the system down... I belive it's a software problem as: 1) the CD-ROM works under two other operting systems on the same machine 2) the CD-ROM works with 2.2 kernel.GENERIC Anyway my machine is configured as follows: - Controller SCSI Adaptech 2940 U/UW bios v1.21 - HD SCSI Wide Seagate ST32550W (connected to the wide connector) - CD-ROM SCSI-II Sony CDU 76-S (connected to the standard connector) May this be due to actual VM problems? If not should I argue there's a bug in the ahc controller? -- Beck-Peccoz Amedeo GEA Software S.r.l. Via Deffeyes, 1 11025 Gressoney Saint Jean (AO) ITALY Tel. ++39-125-366302 Fax. ++39-125-366415 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 04:29:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA16182 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 04:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA16091; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 04:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uRGji-000QaAC; Wed, 5 Jun 96 13:26 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA08433; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:06:55 +0200 Message-Id: <199606051106.NAA08433@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Somebody explain this to me again.. :-) To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:06:55 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers), FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) In-Reply-To: <199605301434.PAA01311@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at May 30, 96 03:34:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Richards writes: > > In reply to Bruce Evans who said >> >> >Why does the ``libraries'' target in /usr/src/Makefile cleans >> >automatically? Sure, you can set NOCLEANDIR but then that turns off >> >> The libraries might be different if the compiler has changed. The >> compiler might change because it's not in lib-tools. >> > > I think perhaps the make world methodology is now largely redundant. In > the early days we were so busy fixing bugs in the build > tools/libraries/headers that we needed something like this but I'm not > sure that's the case now. I heartily agree! I've been rebuilding -stable since Monday, and every time I run into a minor problem, I have to start again from scratch. > I think a make bootstrap would be more convenient these days where specific > cases for this particular release can be put thus avoiding a lot of > rebuilding that's basically unecessary. Yes, this seems the way to go. > When was the last time we changed the compiler, or libm or most of the > other stuff, doesn't make sense to include it all in the multiple > build stages. If the compiler's the reason for rebuilding, why not make the libraries dependent on it? It seems that a lot of the 'rm -rf's in the Makefiles are the result of inadequate dependencies. I would suggest that we make the standard build ('make everything'?) without any 'rm -rf', and gradually work on getting the dependencies correct. Greg From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 04:30:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA16405 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 04:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA16392 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 04:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uRGjd-000QZQC; Wed, 5 Jun 96 13:26 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA08452 for FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:13:19 +0200 Message-Id: <199606051113.NAA08452@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: stable breakage To: randy@zyzzyva.com (Randy Terbush) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:12:50 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199606012008.PAA01451@sierra.zyzzyva.com> from "Randy Terbush" at Jun 1, 96 03:08:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Randy Terbush writes: > >>> rune.c isn't needed anymore as it only contains the functions >>> setinvalidrune() and setrunelocale(), which are defined in setinvalidrune.c >>> and setrunelocale.c. >>> >>> Remove the reference to runc.c in lib/libc/locale/Makefile.inc to fix this >>> problem. (You can nuke rune.c as well.) >> >> Huh? Are you sure? It's still in the 2.2-current version of this >> file. I'd love to have the fix be so simple, but if this is still >> done in 2.2 then I have to wonder.. > > Nope! Not quite that simple. It seems that common_setlocale.c also needs > to be added to the libc/locale/Makefile.inc. I seriously hosed myself > doing make world when new_categories() was suddenly missing. > > A quick comparison of the libc.so.2.2 from 2.1R shows that there may > be other things missing as well. > >> From 2.1R > -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 435248 Jun 1 14:25 /usr/lib/libc.so.2.2 > From the current -stable > -rwxr-x--- 1 root develop 384472 Jun 1 15:01 /usr/src/lib/libc/obj/libc.so.2 > > Word of warning: > Unless you are linking everything static, a make world in -stable may > seriously ruin your day. Tell me about it. It's a good thing to have another box NFS mounted. I'm really making -stable for installation on another system. I can't see any good reason to have to install it on the system on which I'm building in order to achieve this goal. I've already modified the libc Makefiles to take header files only from the /usr/src hierarchy; it should be possible to use different binary and library paths as well, so that the build environment is completely separate from the host environment. I know there's been a lot of talk about this before, but what are the current arguments against such a solution? Greg From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 04:30:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA16465 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 04:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA16435 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 04:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uRGjd-000QZnC; Wed, 5 Jun 96 13:26 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA08351 for FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:56:00 +0200 Message-Id: <199606051056.MAA08351@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Still more on VM and swap To: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:56:00 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've just rebuilt a kernel with CTM 2075. Bad news: emacs still craps out. Still, I have followed up on the "swap loss" problem and tried starting emacs again and again. Here are the results. This is the first thing I did after booting: # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 560 32144 2% Interleaved # emacs Invalid function: [] # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 2864 29840 9% Interleaved # emacs Invalid function: [156 -66730240 16782444 Fatal error (11).Segmentation fault (core dumped) # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 4364 28340 13% Interleaved # emacs # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 5144 27560 16% Interleaved # emacs # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 5580 27124 17% Interleaved # emacs # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 5580 27124 17% Interleaved # emacs # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 5580 27124 17% Interleaved # emacs # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 6016 26688 18% Interleaved # emacs; pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 6016 26688 18% Interleaved # emacs; pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 6016 26688 18% Interleaved # Looks like emacs is getting left behind in the swap, doesn't it? Let's take a look: # ls -l /usr/local/bin/emacs -rwxr-xr-t 2 root bin 2168305 Apr 28 18:28 /usr/local/bin/emacs So it's sticky, so I suppose it should get left behind in the swap. But shouldn't swap be cleaned out of sticky if it fills up? In any case, I rebooted and did: # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 616 32088 2% Interleaved # ls -l /usr/local/bin/emacs -rwxr-xr-t 2 root bin 2168305 Apr 28 18:28 /usr/local/bin/emacs # chmod 755 /usr/local/bin/emacs # ls -l /usr/local/bin/emacs -rwxr-xr-x 2 root bin 2168305 Apr 28 18:28 /usr/local/bin/emacs # pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 1256 31448 4% Interleaved # emacs; pstat -s Invalid function: [#[(ü\\\\\\\\\ô\\´z\P\\\\\\\\\\\ \\üÁ\P\,\\\\\\4\\$\\Á\PD\\\\\\L\\<\\À\P\\\\\\\\d\\T\\\,\Pt\\\\\\|\\l\\Dí\P\\\\\\\\\\Dö\P¤\\\\\\¬\\\\\\t\P¼\\\\\\Ä\\´\\\\\\\PÔ\\\\\\Ü\\\\\\ì*\Pì\\\\\\ \\\\\\\current-time\\\\\\\\\\\\format-time-string\\\ \\\\\\\decode-ti^C Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 3224 29480 10% Interleaved # emacs; pstat -s Invalid function: [941424 unbound #[nil "`Àeb~Ãy` bÃy ÄU,ÅÆÇÄ`\"TÇ `\"T#4ÅÈÇÄ`\"T\"," [nil start opoint 0 1 message " h¬ç\\j\M\\\ÿp@WÿuìhãÓ\\hãÓ\\è \\EøM\\\MøHHÄ$M\\\xH\t\@H\·P\"\·@$\\ë\1ÛM¹\\\\t\(fÇEþ\\j\EþPhëÓ\\\\\ÿp@è³\ \\·Eþ\ÃÄ\M\\^C Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 4096 28608 13% Interleaved # emacs; pstat -s Wrong type argument: wholenump, Fatal error (11).Segmentation fault (core dumped) Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 5476 27228 17% Interleaved # emacs; pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 5828 26876 18% Interleaved # emacs; pstat -s Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0s1b 32768 5828 26876 18% Interleaved # So probably this isn't the problem after all. Note particularly that after the ls and chmod commands there were 640 kB less swap available than before. Greg From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 05:39:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA23475 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 05:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mongoose.bostic.com (bostic@mongoose.BSDI.COM [205.230.230.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA23466; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 05:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bostic@localhost) by mongoose.bostic.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id IAA28273; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:34:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith Bostic Message-Id: <199606051234.IAA28273@mongoose.bostic.com> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: editors Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, jhs@FreeBSD.org, terry@lambert.org Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> question that I haven't been able to answer is what to use to >> trigger this event. I could certainly use :help, but as Julian > > How about a command line flag? I can run `vi --on-screen-help' > or whatever when I know that the novice is about to be punted into > vi, no sweat. True, but the one that worries me is when someone just types vi, or gets launched because their EDITOR variable wasn't set. I keep wandering around ideas like three keystroke errors in a row... ;-} --keith From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 06:12:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA28688 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epprod.elsevier.co.uk (epprod.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA28654; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 06:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by epprod.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA07251; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:11:09 +0100 Received: from tees by snowdon with SMTP (PP); Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:11:18 +0100 Received: (from dpr@localhost) by tees (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) id OAA21117; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:10:57 +0100 Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:10:57 +0100 Message-Id: <199606051310.OAA21117@tees> To: Keith Bostic Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.org, jhs@FreeBSD.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <199606051234.IAA28273@mongoose.bostic.com> References: <199606051234.IAA28273@mongoose.bostic.com> Reply-To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk From: Paul Richards X-Attribution: Paul X-Mailer: GNU Emacs [19.30.1], RMAIL, Mailcrypt [3.3] Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Keith" == Keith Bostic writes: >>> question that I haven't been able to answer is what to use to >>> trigger this event. I could certainly use :help, but as Julian >> How about a command line flag? I can run `vi --on-screen-help' or >> whatever when I know that the novice is about to be punted into vi, >> no sweat. Keith> True, but the one that worries me is when someone just types Keith> vi, or gets launched because their EDITOR variable wasn't set. Keith> I keep wandering around ideas like three keystroke errors in a Keith> row... ;-} If it's an option then make it a compile time switch to decide whether it's in novice mode by default or not. FreeBSD can compile it to be in novice mode by default and any experienced user can switch it off the first time they use it in their .exrc file. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 07:37:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA04668 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 07:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA04659; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 07:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11467; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:37:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu: jfieber owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:37:03 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Keith Bostic , current@freebsd.org, jhs@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <8374.833961150@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Actually, it's sort of considered "cool" in the UNIX world to bash > Microsoft and Apple as somehow less than macho, the inference being > that UNIX is far more of a power tool and would not lower itself to > being used by mere users. There were not any smileys in that message; I was half serious actually. Microsoft's wizards are on occasion useful, but their packing and marketing is nauseating. > In reality, the best compromise lies somewhere in between. Make a > tool stand out of your way when you know how to use it, give it some > standardized way of documenting itself when you don't. A good ideal, but SO hard to achieve. Having put in my fair share of yeras working in college computer labs and more recently teaching intro to computering courses, knowing when to help and when not to is a pretty tough problem for REAL intelligence, never mind artificial intelligence. Maybe what is needed is a single system wide agent that monitors a user's skill level and serves as an advisor to the help systems in individual applications. Agent says to vi: "Hey, Jordan is a vi power user, offering help will be considered an insult." The trick is figuring out what dimensions of user experience would be most useful for the agent to know about. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 07:51:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA05668 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 07:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA05642; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 07:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA08511; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:50:55 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:50:55 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9606051450.AA08511@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Cc: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk (Paul Richards), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers), FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: Somebody explain this to me again.. :-) In-Reply-To: <199606051106.NAA08433@allegro.lemis.de> References: <199605301434.PAA01311@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> <199606051106.NAA08433@allegro.lemis.de> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk <> I think perhaps the make world methodology is now largely redundant. In >> the early days we were so busy fixing bugs in the build >> tools/libraries/headers that we needed something like this but I'm not >> sure that's the case now. > I heartily agree! I've been rebuilding -stable since Monday, and > every time I run into a minor problem, I have to start again from > scratch. No, you don't; perhaps that is the confusing. There are certain circumstances when you Really Need something that does what `make world' does. (For example, when building a release, particularly if its codebase is slightly different from what's running on the build machine.) The problem is that people have been told ``to build the system, just type `make world' '', which is completely bogus for most people and most circumstances. What they should be told is: To build the world: echo 'INSTALL= install -C' >> /etc/make.conf cd /usr/src make obj depend all install make all install This is completely sufficient for the needs of everyone who isn't bootstrapping a new compiler or library, or building releases. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 08:11:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA07422 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA07388; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606051511.IAA07388@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Beck Peccoz Amedeo cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: CD-ROM hags the machine In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Jun 1996 11:04:29 +0200." <31B54D9D.41C67EA6@masternet.it> Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 08:11:31 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The only way to get out of this is to shut the system down... > > I belive it's a software problem as: >1) the CD-ROM works under two other operting systems on the same machine >2) the CD-ROM works with 2.2 kernel.GENERIC I'd be very surprised to see the same sources under a different kernel config behave differently in this regard. > Anyway my machine is configured as follows: > - Controller SCSI Adaptech 2940 U/UW bios v1.21 > - HD SCSI Wide Seagate ST32550W (connected to the wide connector) > - CD-ROM SCSI-II Sony CDU 76-S (connected to the standard connector) > > May this be due to actual VM problems? If not should I argue there's a >bug in the ahc controller? Its not a VM problem. Here's a patch I've put out to some driver testers that may address this problem. >-- > >Beck-Peccoz Amedeo >GEA Software S.r.l. >Via Deffeyes, 1 >11025 Gressoney Saint Jean (AO) >ITALY > >Tel. ++39-125-366302 Fax. ++39-125-366415 > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== Index: dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.seq =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.seq,v retrieving revision 1.40 diff -c -r1.40 aic7xxx.seq *** aic7xxx.seq 1996/05/31 06:30:15 1.40 --- aic7xxx.seq 1996/06/04 20:06:33 *************** *** 83,88 **** --- 83,93 ---- start: and FLAGS,0x0f /* clear target specific flags */ mvi SCSISEQ,ENRSELI /* Always allow reselection */ + clr SCSIRATE /* + * We don't know the target we will + * connect to, so default to narrow + * transfers to avoid parity problems. + */ poll_for_work: /* * Are we a twin channel device? *************** *** 274,282 **** set_sxfrctl0: mov SXFRCTL0,SINDEX ! mov SCSISEQ,ALLZEROS /* ! * Don't allow (re)selections ! * until after the next busfree. */ mvi CLRSINT1,CLRBUSFREE mvi CLRSINT0,0x60 /* CLRSELDI|CLRSELDO */ --- 279,287 ---- set_sxfrctl0: mov SXFRCTL0,SINDEX ! mov SCSISEQ,ENAUTOATNP /* ! * ATN on parity errors ! * for "in" phases */ mvi CLRSINT1,CLRBUSFREE mvi CLRSINT0,0x60 /* CLRSELDI|CLRSELDO */ *************** *** 499,508 **** * a MESSAGE REJECT. */ p_mesgout_loop: test SSTAT0,SPIORDY jz p_mesgout_loop cmp DINDEX,1 jne p_mesgout_outb /* last byte? */ mvi CLRSINT1,CLRATNO /* drop ATN */ - test SSTAT1,PHASEMIS jnz p_mesgout_phasemis p_mesgout_outb: dec DINDEX or CLRSINT0, CLRSPIORDY --- 504,514 ---- * a MESSAGE REJECT. */ p_mesgout_loop: + test SSTAT1,PHASEMIS jnz p_mesgout_phasemis test SSTAT0,SPIORDY jz p_mesgout_loop + test SSTAT1,PHASEMIS jnz p_mesgout_phasemis cmp DINDEX,1 jne p_mesgout_outb /* last byte? */ mvi CLRSINT1,CLRATNO /* drop ATN */ p_mesgout_outb: dec DINDEX or CLRSINT0, CLRSPIORDY *************** *** 866,871 **** --- 872,878 ---- or CLRSINT0, CLRSPIORDY mov NONE,SCSIDATL /*dummy read from latch to ACK*/ inb_next_wait: + test SSTAT1,PHASEMIS jnz mesgin_phasemis test SSTAT0,SPIORDY jz inb_next_wait /* wait for next byte */ inb_first: mov DINDEX,SINDEX Index: i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c,v retrieving revision 1.72 diff -c -r1.72 aic7xxx.c *** aic7xxx.c 1996/05/31 06:32:09 1.72 --- aic7xxx.c 1996/06/01 08:01:34 *************** *** 1744,1757 **** printf("parity error during %s phase.\n", phase); /* ! * Assert ATN if we got a parity error in an "in" ! * phase, and stuff the message buffer with * the appropriate message. "In" phases have set * mesg_out to something other than MSG_NOP. */ if(mesg_out != MSG_NOP) { - u_char scsisig = AHC_INB(ahc, SCSISIGI); - AHC_OUTB(ahc, SCSISIGO, scsisig | ATNO); AHC_OUTB(ahc, MSG0, mesg_out); AHC_OUTB(ahc, MSG_LEN, 1); } --- 1744,1756 ---- printf("parity error during %s phase.\n", phase); /* ! * We've set the hardware to assert ATN if we ! * get a parity error on "in" phases, so all we ! * need to do is stuff the message buffer with * the appropriate message. "In" phases have set * mesg_out to something other than MSG_NOP. */ if(mesg_out != MSG_NOP) { AHC_OUTB(ahc, MSG0, mesg_out); AHC_OUTB(ahc, MSG_LEN, 1); } From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 11:46:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA23190 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23185 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA29393; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:41:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606051841.LAA29393@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Vm fixes NG To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:40:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org, fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, grog@lemis.de In-Reply-To: <199606050242.VAA02177@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jun 4, 96 09:42:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This discussion of trying to solve the problem of a GUI leaving the > console in a state that the kernel doesn't know how to change during > a system crash is interesting. There is a potential solution (hack) > that I don't remember being mentioned. HACK ALERT!!!: Specify a callback > into user space -- wired specially, with a special system call, that the > kernel (syscons, pcvt, etc) can call in the case of a crash to fix the problem. > To make it easiest on the kernel VM people, it would be nice if it would be > a self-contained module and PIC. We don't support user space ISRs (yet), but > this isn't very different from an user space ISR. > > Just a thought. It's a good thought. The segment containing such a routine and its data would need to be locked in core. If it took a fault, it would need to fail the process, not the kernel, s a result of the fault. There is also the problem of associating a credential with the callback registration. This gets back into the issue of whether credentials should be seperate from the process as a container object. In the case of an AST implementation (what you are talking about here is the kernel running user-provided code, preferrably in the context of a credential and a page map), this gets especially hairy. 8-). It probably wants support for multiple code and data segments (COFF or ELF, basically) to be able to pull it of without locking the whole thing in core following a registration. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 12:41:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA26763 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA26756; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA26322; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:40:22 -0700 (PDT) To: John Fieber cc: Keith Bostic , current@freebsd.org, jhs@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Jun 1996 09:37:03 CDT." Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 12:40:22 -0700 Message-ID: <26319.834003622@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Maybe what is needed is a single system wide agent that monitors > a user's skill level and serves as an advisor to the help systems > in individual applications. Agent says to vi: Well, I think this is an interesting idea but about 10 steps removed from the one we'd take next. :-) There's no point in having an intelligent agent with all the powers of a HAL 9000 at its command to determine what setting to notch "skill level" at when the skill level for UNIX is locked at "hacker and above." We have nothing to offer the novice so the point of an intelligent selection agent is somewhat moot. Again, the way in which tools document themselves or even point back at their source code if you ask them nicely is *entirely separate* from how you tweak them into "friendly mode." You're busily arguing about the shape of the steering wheel for the car, I'm saying that we probably should first do something about the fact that there are no roads to drive it on and only a set of train tracks available, rendering the steering wheel option rather useless anyway. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 14:35:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA07872 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07867; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRQEF-0004KvC; Wed, 5 Jun 96 14:34 PDT Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:34:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: John Fieber , Keith Bostic , current@freebsd.org, jhs@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <26319.834003622@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Good point! Actually, one idea I've been toying around with lately as probably the only hope to get UNIX to compete with NT on the low-end server (where the administrators usually aren't too UNIX knowledgable) would be a modular installation/admin/tutorial/monitoring type tool, that would be somewhat like training wheels: You would have tutorials (or dare I say "wizards" :-) to help you out when you are still learning (you ask it, "How do I create a new account?" or whatever), but on the other end, even expert users might want to use an "AdminTool" type module if it provided visual status information and was reasonably flexible (perhaps even scriptable). Here would be the key features you'd want: 1) Completely HTML-based interface. This would connect to a CGI or daemon on the back-end to query the current system status. If you've used "SATAN" you know what I mean. This would support both Lynx and Netscape. Obviously there are security issues that need to be dealt with, but this approach is MUCH more attractive than Motif, TCL/Tk, etc., and seamless extends to remote administration. 2) Should be comprehensive, everything from adding users, setting up the network (including Web server, NFS, etc), tape backups, printing services, installing/removing packages, and monitoring disk usage and system status (e.g. top or vmstat). Sun has a *really* cool demo of a Java-based product called "Solstice Workshop" at http://www.sun.com/solstice/products/workshop.html. I'm especially fond of the Java-based "vital signs" portion. THIS is what it should look like! 3) FreeBSD installation itself should be something like Solaris for the CD-ROM version (first get you into XFree86, then start a Netscape-based HTML install, or maybe TCL/Tk), otherwise it'd fall back into something similar to sysinstall. Either way, it should strive to be as friendly as possible and lead seamlessly into the post-install "AdminWizard" to prevent any "Okay it's installed. Now what?" factor. Of course this is all just proof-of-concept, I don't have time to implement anything like this right now, but it is certainly the direction you would want to take if you're concerned with making UNIX easier for new admins. ---Jake On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Well, I think this is an interesting idea but about 10 steps removed > from the one we'd take next. :-) There's no point in having an > intelligent agent with all the powers of a HAL 9000 at its command to > determine what setting to notch "skill level" at when the skill level > for UNIX is locked at "hacker and above." We have nothing to offer > the novice so the point of an intelligent selection agent is somewhat > moot. > > Again, the way in which tools document themselves or even point back > at their source code if you ask them nicely is *entirely separate* > from how you tweak them into "friendly mode." You're busily arguing > about the shape of the steering wheel for the car, I'm saying that we > probably should first do something about the fact that there are no > roads to drive it on and only a set of train tracks available, > rendering the steering wheel option rather useless anyway. :-) > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 14:36:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA07989 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peedub.gj.org (newpc.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA07966 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peedub.gj.org (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA13656 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:34:16 GMT Message-Id: <199606052334.XAA13656@peedub.gj.org> X-Authentication-Warning: peedub.gj.org: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/21/95 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks Reply-To: Gary Jennejohn In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Jun 1996 11:04:42 +0200." <199606050904.LAA08078@allegro.lemis.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 23:34:15 +0000 From: Gary Jennejohn Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey writes: >OK, to follow up on my last message, I rebooted my machine and tried >to start emacs. Here's what happened (this is put together from >displays on two different xterms): > [lots of pstat's deleted] >So, here I am, three Emacsen later, all stopped, and I have 5 MB less >swap than before. Can anybody else reproduce these results? > I decided to test this out. I can start both emacs and xemacs with NO failures at all. And not one additional block of swap gets allocated. I must in all fairness note that I already had about 16 MB of swap in use. This with a -current kernel made from the latest sources as of Monday. So I didn't test against the latest pmap.c, et. al. But I wouldn't expect this to have a negative effect. This is on a machine with 16 MB memory and 64 MB swap. Looks to me like you might have a bad SIMM, Greg. --- Gary Jennejohn Home - Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de Work - gjennejohn@frt.dec.com From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 15:40:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA12190 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA12185 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRRFo-0004KwC; Wed, 5 Jun 96 15:40 PDT Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:40:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Gary Jennejohn cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks In-Reply-To: <199606052334.XAA13656@peedub.gj.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > I decided to test this out. I can start both emacs and xemacs with NO > failures at all. And not one additional block of swap gets allocated. > I must in all fairness note that I already had about 16 MB of swap in > use. > > This with a -current kernel made from the latest sources as of Monday. > So I didn't test against the latest pmap.c, et. al. But I wouldn't > expect this to have a negative effect. > > This is on a machine with 16 MB memory and 64 MB swap. > > Looks to me like you might have a bad SIMM, Greg. Another possibility is a bad emacs binary. Especially since as part of the compilation process, emacs runs itself, loads in a bunch of LISP, then pukes itself out as a new executable. I shudder to think what could happen if a buggy kernel or bad SIMM decided to rear its head at that point. By the way, I'll be building emacs 19.31, among other things, this week, with FreeBSD-current and Solaris/x86, so I'll post if I have any problems with the new pmap code. Also, I'm using GCC 2.7.2 with 2.7.3 patches and -O2, to try to shake out any optimizer bugs before 2.7.3 is officially released (and if I find none, to encourage us to put 2.7.3 in -current!). ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 15:43:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA12440 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-186.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.186]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA12433; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA11363; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:28:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606052128.XAA11363@vector.jhs.no_domain> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.jhs.no_domain: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Keith Bostic cc: current@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: editors From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany Phone: +49.89.268616 Fax: +49.89.2608126 (later) Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Mailer: EXMH version 1.6.5 95 12 11, PGP available In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:59:51 EDT." <199606041759.NAA21311@mongoose.bostic.com> Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 23:28:16 +0200 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: Keith Bostic > > > Here are patches to implement a terser version of above on > > FreeBSD-current/usr.bin/vi, ( to stop vi newbies getting stranded ). > > > > I've tested (& installed here) with set showmode ruler showdirty. > > If someone would try them, & they're considered OK, > > maybe they're acceptable for inclusion in src/ ? > > I'm hesitant to do this. The reason is that this will require > lots and lots of repaint characters whenever the lower line gets > updated, It's for people like my girlfriend (used to WordPerfect/Word), working on local fast screens, but who rarely use or don't know vi. Not for experienced vi users who do remote vi's under xterms around the globe on slow links. I doubt we (this list) would use this extended `showmode' much ourselves, it's for our non-vi-familiar local associates. > and it's not going to fit if the ruler option is on as well. It does fit actually, (didn't when first implemented but I truncated the text, before posting the patches). All is OK with: resize :li#45::co#65: :set all lines=45 term="xterm" ruler columns=65 showdirty nomodeline showmode window=44 > What I'd like to do is have a "novice" mode where vi splits the > screen and puts a full help file into the lower half, with the > common commands immediately visible. Yes, occured to me too, but I figured anything beyond a minor tweak was best off leaving to the master :-) Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 15:44:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA12545 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-186.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.186]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA12538; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA10169; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:58:40 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606051558.RAA10169@vector.jhs.no_domain> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.jhs.no_domain: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Keith Bostic cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: editors From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany Phone: +49.89.268616 Fax: +49.89.2608126 (later) Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Mailer: EXMH version 1.6.5 95 12 11, PGP available In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Jun 1996 08:34:25 EDT." <199606051234.IAA28273@mongoose.bostic.com> Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 17:58:40 +0200 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: Keith Bostic > Subject: Re: editors > Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:34:25 -0400 (EDT) > Message-id: <199606051234.IAA28273@mongoose.bostic.com> > > >> question that I haven't been able to answer is what to use to > >> trigger this event. I could certainly use :help, but as Julian > > > > How about a command line flag? I can run `vi --on-screen-help' > > or whatever when I know that the novice is about to be punted into > > vi, no sweat. > > True, but the one that worries me is when someone just types > vi, or gets launched because their EDITOR variable wasn't set. > > I keep wandering around ideas like three keystroke errors > in a row... ;-} That's a nice idea, as long as it could be disabled by something like ~/.exrc `set noautohelp' Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 15:45:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA12686 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA12669 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA01595; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606052245.PAA01595@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Gary Jennejohn cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 05 Jun 96 23:34:15 -0000. <199606052334.XAA13656@peedub.gj.org> Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 15:45:11 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Greg Lehey writes: >>OK, to follow up on my last message, I rebooted my machine and tried >>to start emacs. Here's what happened (this is put together from >>displays on two different xterms): >[lots of pstat's deleted] >>So, here I am, three Emacsen later, all stopped, and I have 5 MB less >>swap than before. Can anybody else reproduce these results? >I decided to test this out. I can start both emacs and xemacs with NO >failures at all. And not one additional block of swap gets allocated. >I must in all fairness note that I already had about 16 MB of swap in >use. [...] >This is on a machine with 16 MB memory and 64 MB swap. >Looks to me like you might have a bad SIMM, Greg. Don't know about the SIGSEGV's you're (Greg) getting, but the swap stuff sounds pretty obvious to me. When you ran emacs, you pushed some processes out to swap that were previously in memory. When emacs quit, those other processes were still running, so still had those pages allocated on swap. The process you're running isn't the only process that gets to have swap pages allocated for it. This seems to be substantiated by the fact that there was a small amount of swap allocated before you started, indicating it had just barely begun to page some processes to fit everything in memory. If I'm not mistaken, generally when a process has pages allocated on swap, those don't ever get removed from swap until the process exits. So, just because you quit emacs and opened up a big memory hole where other processes could run again, doesn't mean those other process' swap pages will get deallocated. The fact that Gary already had more swap allocated probably means that when he ran emacs he probably simply forced some pages to be freed for pages that other processes already had on swap. Now, in addition to this, I believe emacs installs by default with the sticky bit set, which means it will try to keep swap pages allocated for it, even when it isn't running. I have heard people exprpess concern about swap leaks sooo many times (here, on the NetBSD lists, and on the XFree86 lists), when in reality, they just haven't thought through the less insidious explanations enough. Sure, John may have checked in a swap bug or two with his recent changes. But the behavior sounds a whole lot more like standard Unix swap behavior to me. At least, that's the way I understand it. I'm not a veteran kernel internals hacker, however... Now, the SIGSEGV's might have something to do with bad memory or cache. Or just running the clock too high for the memory or CPU. Or, it could very possible be a bug in John's code. I'm sure he has a good idea of what it could be, if it is, in fact, a bug. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 15:47:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA12899 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA12894 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net (relay-4.mail.demon.net [158.152.1.108]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA16803 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:47:15 -0700 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-4.mail.demon.net id an07399; 5 Jun 96 22:32 GMT Received: from hclb.demon.co.uk ([158.152.8.23]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa29140; 5 Jun 96 22:34 +0100 Received: by hclb.demon.co.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0uRQCu-000670C; Wed, 5 Jun 96 21:33 GMT From: Dave Evans Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-ID: <834035460snx@hclb.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.43 $ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 96 21:31:00 GMT Lines: 38 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article Richard Wackerbarth writes: > Chuck Robey writes: > > 2) Right now both suffer for the lack of standardization and cross usage. > Neither can convieniently utilize an up-to-date, or partly up-to-date, tree as > a starting point. Ctm does better at this only because of the manual effort of > the distributors. > I've written a program which can be used to repair or update a broken /usr/src tree. I've been using it as a replacement for ctm in day to day use, but it is perfectly capable of using whatever deltas and files on cdroms you have lying around. It will hunt in several places for files, and it is possible to save a /usr/src tree as individual gzipped files in another tree and it will use those as well. The program makes a best effort at patching a file, even those with minor differences to the master ctm source tree ( files on CDROMS are prone to this). It tries all combinations until it finds one that works. As a last resort If none of the patches work, it creates a shellscript which can be used to ftp fresh files from your favourite FTP mirror site. The program can be used as a quick sanity checker to check the health of /usr/src. The more deltas and cdroms you have, the better it works. An index program creates an index of all your deltas. By feeding the index though a grep, awk or perl filter, it is possible to undo as many deltas as you like, although I haven't really tried this much. My /usr/src has never been in a pristine condition good enough for normal ctm to work,, and being on a slow dial up line, I did not want to download a 35 Meg file to get ctm started. With a packet round trip time of up to 20 seconds at times, sup is far too slow to be usable. To obtain the source for the programs, send a blank email message to cm5@hclb.demon.co.uk. You will received a 35 k file within a day or two. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 17:03:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA19087 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA19081; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA28586; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:02:02 -0700 (PDT) To: Jake Hamby cc: John Fieber , Keith Bostic , current@freebsd.org, jhs@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:34:57 PDT." Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 17:02:02 -0700 Message-ID: <28584.834019322@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > would be somewhat like training wheels: You would have tutorials (or > dare I say "wizards" :-) to help you out when you are still learning (you > ask it, "How do I create a new account?" or whatever), but on the other Erm, I don't really like that approach. I'll elaborate below. > Here would be the key features you'd want: > [standard HTML + CGI interface manager idea elided] Yes, this is just the latest incarnation of the "external UI driver" idea that's been hovering around UNIX since the very beginning. It's not even necessarily such a bad idea, as the folks at Empac (http://www.empac.com) have shown, but it has some definite limitations and there's always the problem of "interface creep" (not the one behind the keyboard :) when new UNIX tools are added or changed. I think that it's only a comb-over solution at best, though almost certainly the one we'll have to go to in the near-to-medium term. Longer term, I think we need to start thinking more about programs and their documentation as an *association* of some sort, the details of which should be handled transparently to the user. Some truly crude systems have used the executable itself as a way of binding the associated data to the utility (and I guess ELF might be good for this :-), e.g. storing the man page or source directory path information somewhere in in the text segment, but that's just an implementation issue. I'm sure that a really fast (and robust) system-wide registry database could eventually be evolved to support multiple "views" of a given file tree, the executable nature of an object being only one of potentially many properties. Your `man' command now also searches for the executable file or library (MANPATH would be a superset of PATH). Hmmmm. I see Terry on the Cc list. Might as well go for broke.. :-) What would be really neat, mind you, would be to be able to view a filesystem as a set of objects with property lists, sets of objects being represented by "views" (which would, of course, themselves be objects). Using some sort of query API, you could create new view objects to give your objects some illusion of an organizational model (e.g. the existing hierarchichal one or something even more outlandish). Sort of a poor man's relational database at the filesystem level. Then all the rest would be trivial, the implementation of which would be left as an exercise to the reader. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 17:54:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA21188 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21181; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00195; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:46:53 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606060046.RAA00195@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: editors To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 17:46:53 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, jfieber@indiana.edu, bostic@bsdi.com, current@freebsd.org, jhs@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <28584.834019322@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jun 5, 96 05:02:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmmmm. I see Terry on the Cc list. Might as well go for broke.. :-) > > What would be really neat, mind you, would be to be able to view a > filesystem as a set of objects with property lists, sets of objects > being represented by "views" (which would, of course, themselves be > objects). Using some sort of query API, you could create new view > objects to give your objects some illusion of an organizational model > (e.g. the existing hierarchichal one or something even more > outlandish). Sort of a poor man's relational database at the > filesystem level. > > Then all the rest would be trivial, the implementation of which would > be left as an exercise to the reader. :-) Actually, a minor modification of the nullfs could result in a umsdosfs (assuming the layering call ordering is fixed and the VFS is called for veto rather than implementation for locking, etc.), so there's no reason to believe that you couldn't stick a disk quota interface, or any other type of attribution in there as well. This is actually one of the design goals of the stacking architecture mentioned in John's thesis, and one of the main reasons I go on and on about the Heidemann framework having been "pounded into 4.4" by the CSRG folks (who were working on a timetable in the face of legal adversity -- no blame to them). It's also what I mean when I talk about "layering fixes"... enabling this type of stacking usage (try implementing a quota layer in the current code and watch the VOP_LOCK code go to hell in a handbasket). An attributed FS is definitely one of the goals I have; I just finished sending an email to some other FS hackers in an ongoing discussion of "how to implement a generic bottom-end block interface with transactioning" using the soft updates work. This toenails nicely into the idea of a generic addressable block store in a flat block name space, on top of which you implement attribution services for attributes like, oh, say, names and directory hierarchies. 8-). I think this is the direction we eventually want to pursue to get the most flexible framework for doing the sort of UI things you are talking about here (icon binding, etc.). There's also the FS event model, which lends itself to soft update representation as well... you need something like that to be able to say "I'm a GUI directory browser; tell me when the directory I'm displaying changes so I can update the screen for the user immediately instead of after some lame timeout, like Windows or Mac's or UnixWare boxes". 8-). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 18:07:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA21616 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 18:07:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA21609; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 18:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA28805; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 18:00:11 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: jehamby@lightside.com, jfieber@indiana.edu, bostic@bsdi.com, current@freebsd.org, jhs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Jun 1996 17:46:53 PDT." <199606060046.RAA00195@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 18:00:11 -0700 Message-ID: <28803.834022811@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > with transactioning" using the soft updates work. This toenails > nicely into the idea of a generic addressable block store in a flat > block name space, on top of which you implement attribution services > for attributes like, oh, say, names and directory hierarchies. 8-). Sounds like you could also implement logical volumes under this and get generic addressable block stores that span volumes or shrink on demand - no more fixed filesystem sizes. :) > I think this is the direction we eventually want to pursue to get > the most flexible framework for doing the sort of UI things you > are talking about here (icon binding, etc.). There's also the Absolutely. The visual representation of a file is just one more property. > FS event model, which lends itself to soft update representation > as well... you need something like that to be able to say "I'm Hmmmm. The details of a filesystem event model sounds like a somewhat different kettle of fish. :-) I'd be interested in the details of what you had in mind. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 19:39:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA26163 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 19:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA26157 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 19:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <15434-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:26:17 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id MAA28786 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:26:50 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id CAA29410 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:27:07 GMT Message-Id: <199606060227.CAA29410@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Bug in ypxfer's Makefile X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 12:27:06 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk After the recent round of commits to the ypxfer stuff, I get ===> libexec/ypxfr make: don't know how to make ypxfrd_xdr.c. Stop *** Error code 2 Stop. *** Error code 1 This is after a make includes and make depend. Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland, Australia. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 20:25:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA28983 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA28974; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <21476-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:24:33 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id NAA00396; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:25:00 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id DAA00667; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 03:25:18 GMT Message-Id: <199606060325.DAA00667@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: dyson@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Latest VM fixes are holding up In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 May 1996 01:18:16 EST." <199605310618.BAA07715@dyson.iquest.net> X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 13:25:16 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk yet another report - I've finally made the new stuff the default kernel. Previously I would switch over, go "Eeek!" as the system crashed or did strange things, and then restore my default kernel. I've now compiled all the new binaries & installed them (there were a few kernel structure changes between my stable kernel & the new one) and it all seems to be going quite well. There is a perceptible performance improvement - one seems to get a sharp burst of disk activity as each new program starts, rather than a semi-constant trickle. It's quite noticable on my rc.local, where each startup is separated by a one or two second sleep. Oh, and by the way, Quake seems to page less as well..... Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland, Australia. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 21:05:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA01366 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 21:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA01360 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 21:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA20112; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 00:03:41 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199606060403.AAA20112@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Bug in ypxfer's Makefile To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 00:03:39 -0400 (EDT) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606060227.CAA29410@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen Hocking" at Jun 6, 96 12:27:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Stephen Hocking had to walk into mine and say: > After the recent round of commits to the ypxfer stuff, I get > > ===> libexec/ypxfr > make: don't know how to make ypxfrd_xdr.c. Stop > *** Error code 2 Ack! Sorry about that. I forgot to trim the Makefile after I copied it off my home system. I just fixed this in the tree. You can remove ypxfrd_xdr.c from the SRCS line in ypxfr's Makefile, and rpc.ypxfrd's Makefile too. They don't need it: ypxfrd_xdr.o should be included in librpcsvc, which these programs link against. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= License error: The license for this .sig file has expired. You must obtain a new license key before any more witty phrases will appear in this space. ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 21:22:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA01901 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 21:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA01896 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 21:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA17548; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:16:29 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:16:29 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199606060416.OAA17548@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: current@FreeBSD.ORG, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Bug in ypxfer's Makefile Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >After the recent round of commits to the ypxfer stuff, I get >===> libexec/ypxfr >make: don't know how to make ypxfrd_xdr.c. Stop >*** Error code 2 >Stop. >*** Error code 1 >This is after a make includes and make depend. make depend fails too. rpc.yppasswdd, rpc.ypxfrd and yp_mkdb are also broken. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 22:41:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA04815 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA04806 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA06471; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:41:10 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id HAA00895; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:40:43 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Alpha.4/keltia-uucp-2.8) id CAA04712; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:58:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199606060058.CAA04712@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks To: Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:58:37 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606052334.XAA13656@peedub.gj.org> from Gary Jennejohn at "Jun 5, 96 11:34:15 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2073 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Gary Jennejohn said: > Looks to me like you might have a bad SIMM, Greg. The problem is that before the VM changes, emacs ran successfully. After the VM changes, it starts to behave strangely. Go figure :-) I'll upgrade to the latest VM change and rebuilt emacs tomorrow and see if there are any changes. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #6: Tue Jun 4 00:25:26 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 22:41:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA04842 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA04802; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA06473; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:41:13 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id HAA00896; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:40:43 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Alpha.4/keltia-uucp-2.8) id CAA04584; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:47:51 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199606060047.CAA04584@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Somebody explain this to me again.. :-) To: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:47:50 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: grog@lemis.de, p.richards@elsevier.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9606051450.AA08511@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> from Garrett Wollman at "Jun 5, 96 10:50:55 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2073 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Garrett Wollman said: > echo 'INSTALL= install -C' >> /etc/make.conf > cd /usr/src > make obj depend all install > make all install > > This is completely sufficient for the needs of everyone who isn't > bootstrapping a new compiler or library, or building releases. This is more or less what: setenv NOCLEAN yes make world buys you (except that you're not doing the build-tools target which buys you more time). Thanks to Peter... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #6: Tue Jun 4 00:25:26 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 22:44:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA04978 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gordius.gordian.com (gordius.gordian.com [192.73.220.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA04956; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from delphi.gordian.com (delphi.gordian.com [192.73.220.125]) by gordius.gordian.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA20845; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by delphi.gordian.com (8.7.2/8.6.9) id WAA04867; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606060544.WAA04867@delphi.gordian.com> From: Steve Khoo To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org CC: steve@gordian.com In-reply-to: Steve Khoo's message of Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: NFS problem: Irix 5.2 server, 2.2-960501-SNAP client References: <199606040148.SAA12823@delphi.gordian.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Help!!! I haven't got even one response. Am I the only one that have this problem? Anyway, I tried the latest -current and rolled back to 2.1R and still see the same problem with both. Thanks. SEK From: Steve Khoo Subject: NFS problem: Irix 5.2 server, 2.2-960501-SNAP client To: freebsd-current-digest@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:48:31 -0700 (PDT) I have an interesting nfs problem... The server is running irix 5.2 and the client is running 2.2-960501-SNAP. The mount exit without any error, but when I do df, ls or pwd I get the following: # df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/sd0a 49231 14290 31003 32% / /dev/sd0s1f 1388387 446552 830765 35% /usr /dev/sd0s1e 49231 797 44496 2% /var procfs 4 4 0 100% /proc hermes:/n/hermes 1468230 1316047 152183 90% /n/hermes hermes:/n/hermes2 997025 867008 130016 87% /n/hermes2 delphi:/n/delphi 639048 639048 0 100% /n/delphi delphi:/n/delphi2 639048 639048 0 100% /n/delphi2 # cd /n/delphi # ls ls: .: Not a directory # pwd pwd: Not a directory # The last two filesystems listed in df are the problem filesystems. The funny thing is, I can nfs mount another SGI(hermes) also running irix 5.2 without any problems. The server with problems(delphi) is a Challenge S server and (hermes) is Indigo. The only difference I can think of is, (hermes) was upgraded from irix 4.05 and the filesystem was created in irix 4.05. All filesystems on (delphi) was created in irix 5.2. Any ideas? I'd appreciate any help. Thanks! SEK From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 23:08:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA05726 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA05720 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA07105; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 01:08:33 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199606060608.BAA07105@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 01:08:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606060058.CAA04712@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Jun 6, 96 02:58:37 am Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It seems that Gary Jennejohn said: > > Looks to me like you might have a bad SIMM, Greg. > > The problem is that before the VM changes, emacs ran successfully. After > the VM changes, it starts to behave strangely. Go figure :-) > > I'll upgrade to the latest VM change and rebuilt emacs tomorrow and see if > there are any changes. > Am I going to have to install the huge, evil monster EMACS to reproduce the problem??? (flame-bait :-)). (this is meant with humor.) I personally prefer ed :-). John From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 5 23:57:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA07391 for current-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irbs.irbs.com ([199.182.75.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA07386 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jc@localhost) by irbs.irbs.com (8.7.5/8.6.6) id CAA07753 for freebsd-current@freefall.cdrom.com; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:57:20 -0400 (EDT) From: John Capo Message-Id: <199606060657.CAA07753@irbs.irbs.com> Subject: sup3 very confused To: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org (freebsd-current) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:57:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I discovered that CTM does not deliver the secure bits so I tried sup3. SUP 9.26 (4.3 BSD) for file /root/cvs-supfile at Jun 6 02:44:23 SUP Upgrade of src-eBones-cvs at Thu Jun 6 02:44:25 1996 SUP Fileserver 9.13 (4.3 BSD) 25027 on lucus.fsl.orst.edu at 02:44:25 SUP Fileserver supports compression. SUP Requesting changes since Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 SUP Upgrade of src-eBones-cvs completed at Jun 6 02:44:31 1996 SUP Upgrade of src-secure-cvs at Thu Jun 6 02:44:32 1996 SUP Fileserver 9.13 (4.3 BSD) 25028 on lucus.fsl.orst.edu at 02:44:32 SUP Fileserver supports compression. SUP Requesting changes since Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 SUP Receiving file src/lkm/Makefile,v SUP Receiving file src/lkm/Makefile.inc,v SUP Receiving file src/lkm/atapi/Makefile,v ^C I wasn't really expecting src/lkm in the secure-cvs collection. John Capo From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 00:20:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA08098 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 00:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA08093 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 00:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <15571-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:19:46 +1000 Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id RAA07140 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:20:26 +1000 Received: by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.3) id QAA14007; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:00:53 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:00:53 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199606060600.QAA14007@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org cc: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" wrote: >>Greg Lehey writes: >>>So, here I am, three Emacsen later, all stopped, and I have 5 MB less >>>swap than before. Can anybody else reproduce these results? > >>I decided to test this out. I can start both emacs and xemacs with NO >>failures at all. And not one additional block of swap gets allocated. >>I must in all fairness note that I already had about 16 MB of swap in >>use. >If I'm not mistaken, generally when a process has pages allocated on >swap, those don't ever get removed from swap until the process exits. >So, just because you quit emacs and opened up a big memory hole where >other processes could run again, doesn't mean those other process' >swap pages will get deallocated. >Sure, John may have checked in a swap bug or two >with his recent changes. But the behavior sounds a whole lot more >like standard Unix swap behavior to me. I have to agree with this analysis of the swap behaviour. My under-achieving test box has been compiling for 48 hours now. It has 4Mb ram, 17Mb swap (9Mb used), NFS mounted /usr/src and /usr/obj. It is slow :-) but stable. This is with source dated 1996-06-03 09:15:34, including version 1.98 of pmap.c and version 1.36 of vfs_cluster.c. I do not see any swap loss or ram loss, and any leak must be awfully slow not to have killed it by now. During the previous VM mega-commit (and subsequent instability) I suffered subtly corrupted binaries, and a number of problems went away only when I recompiled everything. I would recommend 'make all install' plus rebuilding emacs. For me, the problems of the current VM mega-commit seem to be over. Until the 1.98 version of pmap.c, my test box would collapse after only a few minutes of compiling. Now it is a powerhouse of snail-speed computing! :-) Stephen. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 02:57:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA14369 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA14363 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uRbnx-000QXsC; Thu, 6 Jun 96 11:56 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA02689; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:42:22 +0200 Message-Id: <199606060842.KAA02689@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks To: Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:42:22 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) In-Reply-To: <199606052334.XAA13656@peedub.gj.org> from "Gary Jennejohn" at Jun 5, 96 11:34:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Jennejohn writes: > > Greg Lehey writes: >> OK, to follow up on my last message, I rebooted my machine and tried >> to start emacs. Here's what happened (this is put together from >> displays on two different xterms): >> > [lots of pstat's deleted] >> So, here I am, three Emacsen later, all stopped, and I have 5 MB less >> swap than before. Can anybody else reproduce these results? > > I decided to test this out. I can start both emacs and xemacs with NO > failures at all. And not one additional block of swap gets allocated. > I must in all fairness note that I already had about 16 MB of swap in > use. > > This with a -current kernel made from the latest sources as of Monday. > So I didn't test against the latest pmap.c, et. al. But I wouldn't > expect this to have a negative effect. No, this has been pretty constant for a couple of weeks. > This is on a machine with 16 MB memory and 64 MB swap. > > Looks to me like you might have a bad SIMM, Greg. I don't see how you can deduce that from the information. Firstly, a number of people have reported this problem, almost always with emacs. Secondly once emacs gets up and running, there are no problems. I've learnt something about swap space in the couple of days, and it looks like I was on the wrong path there, but I don't think that anybody involved doubts that it has something to do with the VM system. Somebody else suggested that the binary might be the problem. It's running on two other systems with no problems, and it's the same binary I've had since before the VM changes were committed. Greg From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 09:59:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA15063 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15057 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA21231; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:56:47 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199606061656.MAA21231@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Bug in ypxfer's Makefile To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606060416.OAA17548@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jun 6, 96 02:16:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Bruce Evans had to walk into mine and say: > >After the recent round of commits to the ypxfer stuff, I get > > >===> libexec/ypxfr > >make: don't know how to make ypxfrd_xdr.c. Stop > >*** Error code 2 > > >Stop. > >*** Error code 1 > > >This is after a make includes and make depend. > > make depend fails too. rpc.yppasswdd, rpc.ypxfrd and yp_mkdb are also > broken. In what way? Details please. I need details before I can do anything. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= License error: The license for this .sig file has expired. You must obtain a new license key before any more witty phrases will appear in this space. ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 10:40:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA19713 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net (relay-4.mail.demon.net [158.152.1.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19703 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-4.mail.demon.net id ai07968; 6 Jun 96 17:10 GMT Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa23625; 6 Jun 96 18:04 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id CAA11652; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:06:46 GMT Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:06:46 GMT Message-Id: <199606060206.CAA11652@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: jehamby@lightside.com MMDF-Warning: Unable to confirm address in preceding line at relay-4.mail.demon.net CC: Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Jake Hamby on Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:40:38 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Looks to me like you might have a bad SIMM, Greg. > > Another possibility is a bad emacs binary. Especially since as part of > the compilation process, emacs runs itself, loads in a bunch of LISP, > then pukes itself out as a new executable. I shudder to think what could > happen if a buggy kernel or bad SIMM decided to rear its head at that point. I'm having the same problems as well, and the Emacs binary was the first thing I suspected. I have rebuilt it several times, with various combinations of debug and optimisation flags (including none), with no apparent difference whatsoever. I've also swapped around SIMMs as well - I have 6 different SIMMs here, and have tried all the possible permutations of those as well. I accept that it may possibly be a problem with my system, but I think it's unlikely, as the problems started as soon as I ran the new VM code and none of the "obvious" solutions have fixed them. The only time I've tried running outside X, the kernel panicked at the point where Emacs would normally crash, with "freeing page held". Incidentally, it's not exclusively Emacs that crashes - I have had atrun exiting with a SIGBUS a couple of times as well, according to the logs. -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland | http://freefall.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ james@jraynard.demon.co.uk | jraynard@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 12:12:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA26800 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA26793 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRkU5-0004KQC; Thu, 6 Jun 96 12:12 PDT Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:12:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Bill Paul cc: Bruce Evans , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bug in ypxfer's Makefile In-Reply-To: <199606061656.MAA21231@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Bill Paul wrote: > Of all the gin joints in all the world, Bruce Evans had to walk into > mine and say: > > > > make depend fails too. rpc.yppasswdd, rpc.ypxfrd and yp_mkdb are also > > broken. > > In what way? Details please. I need details before I can do anything. > > -Bill Hmm, I thought you could just SUP and run it yourself. At any rate, here's what I get: # make depend cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.sbin/vipw -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.sbin/ypserv -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../libexec/ypxfr -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.bin/chpass -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd -I. /usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../libexec/ypxfr/yp_dbwrite.c -o yp_dbwrite /usr/lib/crt0.o: Undefined symbol `_main' referenced from text segment /var/tmp/cc0021471.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment /var/tmp/cc0021471.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment /var/tmp/cc0021471.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_dir' referenced from text segment /var/tmp/cc0021471.o: Undefined symbol `_openinfo' referenced from text segment /var/tmp/cc0021471.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment /var/tmp/cc0021471.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment /var/tmp/cc0021471.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 Stop. # cd ../yp_mkdb # make depend rm -f .depend mkdep -f .depend -a -Dyp_error=warnx -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/../../usr.sbin/ypserv /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/yp_mkdb.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/../ypserv/yp_dblookup.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/../../libexec/ypxfr/yp_dbwrite.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/yp_mkdb.c:50: ypxfr_extern.h: No such file or directory mkdep: compile failed. *** Error code 1 Stop. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 12:38:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA29306 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from magigimmix.xs4all.nl (magigimmix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA29295 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asterix.xs4all.nl (asterix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.11]) by magigimmix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/XS4ALL) with ESMTP id VAA03257 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:38:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from plm.xs4all.nl (uucp@localhost) by asterix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.2) with UUCP id VAA07159 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:34:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA02276; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:33:10 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:33:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606060533.HAA02276@plm.xs4all.nl> From: Peter Mutsaers To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Jake Hamby's message of Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:40:38 -0700 (PDT), Jake Hamby >> said: JH> Another possibility is a bad emacs binary. Especially since JH> as part of the compilation process, emacs runs itself, loads JH> in a bunch of LISP, then pukes itself out as a new executable. JH> I shudder to think what could happen if a buggy kernel or bad JH> SIMM decided to rear its head at that point. I have the same problems. JH> By the way, I'll be building emacs 19.31, among other things, JH> this week, with FreeBSD-current and Solaris/x86, so I'll post JH> if I have any problems with the new pmap code. Also, I'm JH> using GCC 2.7.2 with 2.7.3 patches and - -O2, to try to shake JH> out any optimizer bugs before 2.7.3 is officially released JH> (and if I find none, to encourage us to put 2.7.3 in JH> -current!). I built 19.31 too, with the same results. I did not yet use 2.7.2 however. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 12:38:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA29337 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from magigimmix.xs4all.nl (magigimmix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA29329 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asterix.xs4all.nl (asterix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.11]) by magigimmix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/XS4ALL) with ESMTP id VAA03341 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:38:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from plm.xs4all.nl (uucp@localhost) by asterix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.2) with UUCP id VAA07164 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:34:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA02283; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:36:35 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:36:35 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606060536.HAA02283@plm.xs4all.nl> From: Peter Mutsaers To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Gary Jennejohn's message of Wed, 05 Jun 1996 23:34:15 +0000 Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks References: nnml-dummy-id-12726-27254-302177 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Wed, 05 Jun 1996 23:34:15 +0000, Gary Jennejohn >> said: GJ> I decided to test this out. I can start both emacs and xemacs GJ> with NO failures at all. And not one additional block of swap GJ> gets allocated. I must in all fairness note that I already GJ> had about 16 MB of swap in use. GJ> This with a -current kernel made from the latest sources as of GJ> Monday. So I didn't test against the latest pmap.c, GJ> et. al. But I wouldn't expect this to have a negative effect. GJ> This is on a machine with 16 MB memory and 64 MB swap. GJ> Looks to me like you might have a bad SIMM, Greg. I have the same. It is not related to a bad SIMM. I have 16MB too, and 90MB swap. It only happens sporadically (once in 10 times?) depending on what happend to my machine before. Never when I just rebooted, but often when I have used netscape, for example. It never happens when I use an older kernel. -- ______________________________________________________________________ Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | "Quod licet bovis, plm@xs4all.nl | the Netherlands | non licet Jovi." From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 12:44:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA29772 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA29757; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA08429; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:44:08 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id VAA00765; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:43:30 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Alpha.4/keltia-uucp-2.8) id VAA14619; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:39:00 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199606061939.VAA14619@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Bogon in rpc.yppasswdd/Makefile To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Current Users' list) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:38:59 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: wpaul@freebsd.org X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2084 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ===> usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd cc -O -m486 -pipe -I/src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.sbin/vipw -I/src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.sbin/ypserv -I/src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../libexec/ypxfr -I/src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.bin/chpass -I/src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd -I. /src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../libexec/ypxfr/yp_dbwrite.c -o yp_dbwrite [1] Done makeworld /usr/lib/crt0.o: Undefined symbol `_main' referenced from text segment /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_dir' referenced from text segment /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_openinfo' referenced from text segment /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 Stop. Index: Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.3 diff -u -2 -r1.3 Makefile --- Makefile 1996/06/05 06:13:02 1.3 +++ Makefile 1996/06/06 19:28:20 @@ -3,5 +3,5 @@ PROG= rpc.yppasswdd SRCS= pw_copy.c pw_util.c util.c yppasswd_svc.c yp_error.c ypxfr_misc.c \ - yp_dblookup.c yp_dbwrite yp_access.c yppasswd_private_xdr.c \ + yp_dblookup.c yp_dbwrite.c yp_access.c yppasswd_private_xdr.c \ yp_clnt.c yppasswdd_server.c yppasswd_comm.c yppasswdd_main.c There is also another bogon in yp_mkdb: 235 [21:33] root@keltia:usr.sbin/yp_mkdb# make cc -O -m486 -pipe -Dyp_error=warnx -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/../../usr.sbin/ypserv -c /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/yp_mkdb.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/yp_mkdb.c:50: ypxfr_extern.h: No such file or directory *** Error code 1 Stop. Maybe this ? Index: Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -u -2 -r1.1.1.1 Makefile --- Makefile 1996/04/28 04:16:05 1.1.1.1 +++ Makefile 1996/06/06 19:37:12 @@ -9,5 +9,5 @@ CFLAGS+= -Dyp_error=warnx -CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/../../usr.sbin/ypserv +CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/../../usr.sbin/ypserv -I${.CURDIR}/../../libexec/ypxfr .include -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #7: Thu Jun 6 20:43:22 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 12:49:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA00304 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA00284; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id FAA18814; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 05:45:20 +1000 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 05:45:20 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199606061945.FAA18814@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, wollman@lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: Somebody explain this to me again.. :-) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org, grog@lemis.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org, p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> echo 'INSTALL= install -C' >> /etc/make.conf >> cd /usr/src >> make obj depend all install >> make all install >> >> This is completely sufficient for the needs of everyone who isn't >> bootstrapping a new compiler or library, or building releases. >This is more or less what: >setenv NOCLEAN yes >make world >buys you (except that you're not doing the build-tools target which buys >you more time). Thanks to Peter... Except it isn't obvious how to continue it when it crashes. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 13:07:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA01762 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01746 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA22976 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:07:19 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id NAA19475 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA21570; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:01:31 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199606062001.QAA21570@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Bug in ypxfer's Makefile To: scrappy@ki.net (Marc G. Fournier) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at Jun 6, 96 03:57:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Marc G. Fournier had to walk into mine and say: > In /usr/src/lib/rpcsvc, the makefile has: > RPCSRCS= klm_prot.x mount.x nfs_prot.x nlm_prot.x rex.x rnusers.x \ > rquota.x rstat.x rwall.x sm_inter.x spray.x yppasswd.x ypxfrd.x > > But an ls doesn't show a ypxfrd.x file: > > Makefile nfs_prot.x rex_xdr.c rstat.x sm_inter_xdr.c > klm_prot.x nfs_prot_xdr.c rnusers.x rstat_xdr.c spray.x > klm_prot_xdr.c nlm_prot.x rnusers_xdr.c rwall.x spray_xdr.c > mount.x nlm_prot_xdr.c rquota.x rwall_xdr.c yppasswd.x > mount_xdr.c rex.x rquota_xdr.c sm_inter.x yppasswd_xdr. > I assume that ypxfrd.x should be removed from the Makefile? My sources > are those supped late last night (June 5th) The protocol definition files do not live in /usr/src/lib/rpcsvc: they live in /usr/src/include/rpcsvc. Check that your include/rpcsvc directory is up to date (has ypxfrd.x), then do a (cd /usr/src/include/rpcsvc; make install) and _then_ try to build librpcsvc. ypxfrd.x should not be removed from the Makefile: I want it built so that the XDR functions will end up in librpcsvc. That way I don't have to compile them seperately into ypxfr and rpc.ypxfrd. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= License error: The license for this .sig file has expired. You must obtain a new license key before any more witty phrases will appear in this space. ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 13:45:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05143 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05115 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA21710; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:43:19 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199606062043.QAA21710@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Bug in ypxfer's Makefile To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Jun 6, 96 12:12:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Jake Hamby had to walk into mine and say: > On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Bill Paul wrote: > > Of all the gin joints in all the world, Bruce Evans had to walk into > > mine and say: > > > > > > make depend fails too. rpc.yppasswdd, rpc.ypxfrd and yp_mkdb are also > > > broken. > > > > In what way? Details please. I need details before I can do anything. > > > > -Bill > > Hmm, I thought you could just SUP and run it yourself. I posted a note to bugs a while aso saying that I can't get FreeBSD-current installed on my test machine at work since I use an NFS-mounted /usr and NFS doesn't seem to want to work on my 386DX/33. If I could somehow scrounge up a larger IDE disk I could work around this problem, but I can't. This means I have to try bootstrapping from 2.1.0-RELEASE, which, even it it works, would take more free time that I have right now. So I've settled from slapping together a cut-down NIS build tree on my 2.1.0 machine at home and keeping my fingers crossed. > here's what I get: > > # make depend > cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.sbin/vipw > -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.sbin/ypserv > -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../libexec/ypxfr > -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.bin/chpass > -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd -I. > /usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../libexec/ypxfr/yp_dbwrite.c -o > yp_dbwrite > /usr/lib/crt0.o: Undefined symbol `_main' referenced from text segment > /var/tmp/cc0021471.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text > segment [chop] Fixed. This is a weird one. If you just to a 'make' to build this thing, it works. Only make depend fails. The reason was that somehow the '.c' got chopped off the 'yp_dbwrite.c' entry in the SRCS line of the Makefile. Why a normal 'make' didn't fail because of this I have no idea. I'm fixing this now. > Stop. > # cd ../yp_mkdb > # make depend > rm -f .depend > mkdep -f .depend -a -Dyp_error=warnx > -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/../../usr.sbin/ypserv > /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/yp_mkdb.c > /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/../ypserv/yp_dblookup.c > /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/../../libexec/ypxfr/yp_dbwrite.c > /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/yp_mkdb.c:50: ypxfr_extern.h: No such file or > directory > mkdep: compile failed. > *** Error code 1 Already fixed. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= License error: The license for this .sig file has expired. You must obtain a new license key before any more witty phrases will appear in this space. ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 13:46:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05265 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [205.150.102.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA05248 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA00353; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:46:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Bill Paul cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bug in ypxfer's Makefile In-Reply-To: <199606062001.QAA21570@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Bill Paul wrote: > The protocol definition files do not live in /usr/src/lib/rpcsvc: they > live in /usr/src/include/rpcsvc. Check that your include/rpcsvc directory > is up to date (has ypxfrd.x), then do a (cd /usr/src/include/rpcsvc; > make install) and _then_ try to build librpcsvc. > Damn, I *swore* I rebuild /usr/src/include before I did anything else...sorry about that, here goes trying to crash this machine again :) Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 13:54:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05973 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05965 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA21742; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:52:35 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199606062052.QAA21742@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Bug in ypxfer's Makefile To: scrappy@ki.net (Marc G. Fournier) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at Jun 6, 96 04:46:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Marc G. Fournier had to walk into mine and say: > On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Bill Paul wrote: > > > The protocol definition files do not live in /usr/src/lib/rpcsvc: they > > live in /usr/src/include/rpcsvc. Check that your include/rpcsvc directory > > is up to date (has ypxfrd.x), then do a (cd /usr/src/include/rpcsvc; > > make install) and _then_ try to build librpcsvc. > > Damn, I *swore* I rebuild /usr/src/include before I did anything > else...sorry about that, here goes trying to crash this machine again :) Be advised that I did botch a few Makefiles. Check the Makefiles for yp_mkdb, ypxfr, rpc.yppasswdd and rpc.ypxfrd before you continue. I just fixed the rpc.yppasswdd one; they should all be correct now. -Bill, who is now trying to sup and build -current for the first time in several months -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= License error: The license for this .sig file has expired. You must obtain a new license key before any more witty phrases will appear in this space. ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 14:08:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA07217 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07212 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA23362 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:08:43 -0700 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ac19570; 6 Jun 96 20:05 +0100 Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa22490; 6 Jun 96 18:02 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id CAA11787; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:22:21 GMT Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 02:22:21 GMT Message-Id: <199606060222.CAA11787@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: michaelv@headcandy.com CC: Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199606052245.PAA01595@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> (michaelv@headcandy.com) Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Now, in addition to this, I believe emacs installs by default with the > sticky bit set, which means it will try to keep swap pages allocated > for it, even when it isn't running. It does install with the sticky bit set, but I thought that modern Unices ignored it as they try to keep everything in swap for as long as possible. Someone mailed me and said that unsetting the sticky bit solved the problem for them. I tried it and it didn't help at all. 8-( > At least, that's the way I understand it. I'm not a veteran kernel > internals hacker, however... Me neither 8-) > Now, the SIGSEGV's might have something to do with bad memory or > cache. Or just running the clock too high for the memory or CPU. Or, > it could very possible be a bug in John's code. I'm sure he has a > good idea of what it could be, if it is, in fact, a bug. I agree. Let's see what the latest batch of VM changes will bring. Time to do a 'make world', I think. -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland | http://freefall.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ james@jraynard.demon.co.uk | jraynard@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 14:22:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA08257 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA08252 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ki.net (ki.net [205.150.102.1]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id NAA19283 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA27736; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:57:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Bill Paul cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bug in ypxfer's Makefile In-Reply-To: <199606061656.MAA21231@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Bill Paul wrote: > Of all the gin joints in all the world, Bruce Evans had to walk into > mine and say: > > > >After the recent round of commits to the ypxfer stuff, I get > > > > >===> libexec/ypxfr > > >make: don't know how to make ypxfrd_xdr.c. Stop > > >*** Error code 2 > > > > >Stop. > > >*** Error code 1 > > > > >This is after a make includes and make depend. > > > > make depend fails too. rpc.yppasswdd, rpc.ypxfrd and yp_mkdb are also > > broken. > > In what way? Details please. I need details before I can do anything. > In /usr/src/lib/rpcsvc, the makefile has: RPCSRCS= klm_prot.x mount.x nfs_prot.x nlm_prot.x rex.x rnusers.x \ rquota.x rstat.x rwall.x sm_inter.x spray.x yppasswd.x ypxfrd.x But an ls doesn't show a ypxfrd.x file: Makefile nfs_prot.x rex_xdr.c rstat.x sm_inter_xdr.c klm_prot.x nfs_prot_xdr.c rnusers.x rstat_xdr.c spray.x klm_prot_xdr.c nlm_prot.x rnusers_xdr.c rwall.x spray_xdr.c mount.x nlm_prot_xdr.c rquota.x rwall_xdr.c yppasswd.x mount_xdr.c rex.x rquota_xdr.c sm_inter.x yppasswd_xdr. I assume that ypxfrd.x should be removed from the Makefile? My sources are those supped late last night (June 5th) Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 15:48:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA16469 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA16456 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA03526; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:40:19 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199606062240.RAA03526@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks To: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk (James Raynard) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:40:19 -0500 (EST) Cc: michaelv@headcandy.com, Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606060222.CAA11787@jraynard.demon.co.uk> from "James Raynard" at Jun 6, 96 02:22:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Now, in addition to this, I believe emacs installs by default with the > > sticky bit set, which means it will try to keep swap pages allocated > > for it, even when it isn't running. > > It does install with the sticky bit set, but I thought that modern > Unices ignored it as they try to keep everything in swap for as long > as possible. > > Someone mailed me and said that unsetting the sticky bit solved the > problem for them. I tried it and it didn't help at all. 8-( > The VM system totally ignores the sticky bit for executables. > > I agree. Let's see what the latest batch of VM changes will > bring. Time to do a 'make world', I think. > Even if things start magically working, I am still concerned about processes crashing the system the way that they do. Part of me wants the bugs to "just go away", but my rational side says that they wont... John From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 15:53:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA16746 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA16741 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uRnvL-0004KUC; Thu, 6 Jun 96 15:53 PDT Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:53:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Peter Mutsaers cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks In-Reply-To: <199606060533.HAA02276@plm.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Peter Mutsaers wrote: > JH> By the way, I'll be building emacs 19.31, among other things, > JH> this week, with FreeBSD-current and Solaris/x86, so I'll post > JH> if I have any problems with the new pmap code. Also, I'm > JH> using GCC 2.7.2 with 2.7.3 patches and - -O2, to try to shake > JH> out any optimizer bugs before 2.7.3 is officially released > JH> (and if I find none, to encourage us to put 2.7.3 in > JH> -current!). > > I built 19.31 too, with the same results. I did not yet use 2.7.2 > however. Using the latest kernel (June 5 afternoon) I have had no problems. I just built Emacs 19.31 with 2.7.2 and CFLAGS="-O2 -m486 -pipe". No problems whatsoever. This machine is a 486DX4/100 with 36MB of RAM. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 16:06:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA17761 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA17746 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA06882; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606062306.QAA06882@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "John S. Dyson" cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 06 Jun 96 17:40:19 -0500. <199606062240.RAA03526@dyson.iquest.net> Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 16:06:24 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> It does install with the sticky bit set, but I thought that modern >> Unices ignored it as they try to keep everything in swap for as long >> as possible. >The VM system totally ignores the sticky bit for executables. I had always suspected as much. Thanks for confirming this. (Is this in 4.4BSD in general, or in FreeBSD, specifically?) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 17:00:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA23860 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA23787 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id AAA28386; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 00:56:26 +0100 (BST) To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: "John S. Dyson" , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Jun 1996 16:06:24 PDT." <199606062306.QAA06882@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 00:56:21 +0100 Message-ID: <28384.834105381@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" wrote in message ID <199606062306.QAA06882@MindBender.HeadCandy.com>: > >The VM system totally ignores the sticky bit for executables. > I had always suspected as much. Thanks for confirming this. (Is this > in 4.4BSD in general, or in FreeBSD, specifically?) I think you'll find it's older than 4.4BSD. I seem to remember SunOS 4.1.3 (i.e. 4.3BSD) man pages saying that the sticky bit from files was historical and did nothing. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 17:28:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA26568 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from masternet.it (root@masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26562 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from socrate.gea.org (ts1port11d.masternet.it [194.184.65.33]) by masternet.it (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA30431 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 01:25:36 +0200 Message-ID: <31B784FF.41C67EA6@masternet.it> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 03:25:19 +0200 From: Beck Peccoz Amedeo X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: No more logins Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I can only login as root, all the other users cannot execute anything nor can sendmail or any other program... is it a configuration fault? login: ame Last login: Fri Jun 7 03:05:16 on ttyp0 Copyright (c) 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT (GEA_SOFTWARE) #0: Thu Jun 6 22:05:08 MET DST 1996 Welcome to FreeBSD! login: /bin/csh: Permission denied Ever happened to someone else? -- Beck-Peccoz Amedeo GEA Software S.r.l. Via Deffeyes, 1 11025 Gressoney Saint Jean (AO) ITALY Tel. ++39-125-366302 Fax. ++39-125-366415 From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 18:16:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA01277 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po6.andrew.cmu.edu (PO6.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.106]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA01258 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 18:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from postman@localhost) by po6.andrew.cmu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA03906 for current@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:15:46 -0400 Received: via switchmail; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix13.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix13.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:14:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.60.Jan.26.1995.18.43.47.sun4c.411.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix13.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.unix13.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:14:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:14:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Matthew Jason White To: current@freebsd.org Subject: SCSI Tape driver broken? Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk About a month ago, I upgraded my system to -current so I could do some work on ccd. The new kernel had some trouble with hanging on the probe of my SCSI tape drive (Exabyte 8200). I recently rebuilt the kernel with a June 6th sup of the CVS tree and this probe seems to have completely broken. I'm currently rebuilding my kernel with FAILSAFE defined, I'll let anyone interested know how that works out (email me). I guess I should note that this tape drive works perfectly under all my 2.1 kernels. In the old -current kernel, once I get past the probe the tape drive functions as expected (I've done gigabyte+ dump/restores with no problems). -Matt From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 18:36:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04391 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 18:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04379; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 18:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606070136.SAA04379@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Matthew Jason White cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SCSI Tape driver broken? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Jun 1996 21:14:22 EDT." Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 18:36:24 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >About a month ago, I upgraded my system to -current so I could do some >work on ccd. The new kernel had some trouble with hanging on the probe >of my SCSI tape drive (Exabyte 8200). I recently rebuilt the kernel >with a June 6th sup of the CVS tree and this probe seems to have >completely broken. I'm currently rebuilding my kernel with FAILSAFE >defined, I'll let anyone interested know how that works out (email me). > >I guess I should note that this tape drive works perfectly under all my >2.1 kernels. In the old -current kernel, once I get past the probe the >tape drive functions as expected (I've done gigabyte+ dump/restores with >no problems). > > >-Matt What controller are you using? -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 19:44:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA15302 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 19:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA15271 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 19:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id aa20822; 7 Jun 96 2:50 +0100 Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa11409; 7 Jun 96 2:50 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id CAA02611; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 02:03:44 GMT Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 02:03:44 GMT Message-Id: <199606070203.CAA02611@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: plm@xs4all.nl CC: freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199606060533.HAA02276@plm.xs4all.nl> (message from Peter Mutsaers on Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:33:10 +0200 (MET DST)) Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > JH> Another possibility is a bad emacs binary. Especially since > JH> as part of the compilation process, emacs runs itself, loads > JH> in a bunch of LISP, then pukes itself out as a new executable. > JH> I shudder to think what could happen if a buggy kernel or bad > JH> SIMM decided to rear its head at that point. > > I have the same problems. I have had other programs die, as well Emacs:- Jun 4 16:05:00 jraynard /kernel: pid 10265 (atrun), uid 0: exited on signal 10 Jun 6 23:16:05 jraynard /kernel: pid 148 (innd), uid 8: exited on signal 10 -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland | http://freefall.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ james@jraynard.demon.co.uk | jraynard@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 20:01:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA18479 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 20:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [205.150.102.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18455 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 20:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id XAA09156; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 23:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 23:01:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Beck Peccoz Amedeo cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: No more logins In-Reply-To: <31B784FF.41C67EA6@masternet.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Beck Peccoz Amedeo wrote: > I can only login as root, all the other users cannot execute anything > nor can sendmail or any other program... is it a configuration fault? > > login: ame > Last login: Fri Jun 7 03:05:16 on ttyp0 > Copyright (c) 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994 > The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. > > FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT (GEA_SOFTWARE) #0: Thu Jun 6 22:05:08 MET DST 1996 > > Welcome to FreeBSD! > > login: /bin/csh: Permission denied > > Ever happened to someone else? > Haven't had it happen in FreeBSD, but have had it happen in a very old release of BSDi... check the permissions on / ' ls -ld / ' ki> ls -ld / drwxr-xr-x 19 root wheel 512 May 10 10:15 / Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Thu Jun 6 20:02:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA18658 for current-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 20:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18644 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 20:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01131; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:00:32 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199606070300.WAA01131@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks To: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk (James Raynard) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:00:31 -0500 (EST) Cc: plm@xs4all.nl, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606070203.CAA02611@jraynard.demon.co.uk> from "James Raynard" at Jun 7, 96 02:03:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > JH> Another possibility is a bad emacs binary. Especially since > > JH> as part of the compilation process, emacs runs itself, loads > > JH> in a bunch of LISP, then pukes itself out as a new executable. > > JH> I shudder to think what could happen if a buggy kernel or bad > > JH> SIMM decided to rear its head at that point. > > > > I have the same problems. > > I have had other programs die, as well Emacs:- > > Jun 4 16:05:00 jraynard /kernel: pid 10265 (atrun), uid 0: exited on signal 10 > Jun 6 23:16:05 jraynard /kernel: pid 148 (innd), uid 8: exited on signal 10 > No guarantees, but I found a *major* omission in pmap.c. Replace the pmap_object_init_pt routine in pmap.c with the following, and see how things go: void pmap_object_init_pt(pmap, addr, object, pindex, size, limit) pmap_t pmap; vm_offset_t addr; vm_object_t object; vm_pindex_t pindex; vm_size_t size; int limit; { vm_offset_t tmpidx; int psize; vm_page_t p; int objpgs; psize = (size >> PAGE_SHIFT); if (!pmap || (object->type != OBJT_VNODE) || (limit && (psize > MAX_INIT_PT) && (object->resident_page_count > MAX_INIT_PT))) { return; } /* * if we are processing a major portion of the object, then scan the * entire thing. */ if (psize > (object->size >> 2)) { objpgs = psize; for (p = TAILQ_FIRST(&object->memq); ((objpgs > 0) && (p != NULL)); p = TAILQ_NEXT(p, listq)) { tmpidx = p->pindex; if (tmpidx < pindex) { continue; } tmpidx -= pindex; if (tmpidx >= psize) { continue; } if (((p->valid & VM_PAGE_BITS_ALL) == VM_PAGE_BITS_ALL) && (p->busy == 0) && (p->flags & (PG_BUSY | PG_FICTITIOUS)) == 0) { if (p->queue == PQ_CACHE) vm_page_deactivate(p); p->flags |= PG_BUSY; pmap_enter_quick(pmap, addr + (tmpidx << PAGE_SHIFT), VM_PAGE_TO_PHYS(p)); p->flags |= PG_MAPPED; PAGE_WAKEUP(p); } objpgs -= 1; } } else { /* * else lookup the pages one-by-one. */ for (tmpidx = 0; tmpidx < psize; tmpidx += 1) { p = vm_page_lookup(object, tmpidx + pindex); if (p && ((p->valid & VM_PAGE_BITS_ALL) == VM_PAGE_BITS_ALL) && (p->busy == 0) && (p->flags & (PG_BUSY | PG_FICTITIOUS)) == 0) { if (p->queue == PQ_CACHE) vm_page_deactivate(p); p->flags |= PG_BUSY; pmap_enter_quick(pmap, addr + (tmpidx << PAGE_SHIFT), VM_PAGE_TO_PHYS(p)); p->flags |= PG_MAPPED; PAGE_WAKEUP(p); } } } return; } From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 00:27:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA27196 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 00:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA27191; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 00:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA26479 ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 00:23:24 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I5MEPBL1IO0019BJ@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Fri, 07 Jun 1996 09:19:11 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA18486; Fri, 07 Jun 1996 09:24:28 +0200 Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 09:24:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: Re: Bogon in rpc.yppasswdd/Makefile In-reply-to: <199606061939.VAA14619@keltia.freenix.fr> To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, wpaul@freebsd.org Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199606070724.JAA18486@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ===> usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd > cc -O -m486 -pipe -I/src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.sbin/vipw -I/src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.sbin/ypserv -I/src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../libexec/ypxfr -I/src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../usr.bin/chpass -I/src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd -I. /src/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/../../libexec/ypxfr/yp_dbwrite.c -o yp_dbwrite > > [1] Done makeworld > /usr/lib/crt0.o: Undefined symbol `_main' referenced from text segment > /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment > /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment > /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_dir' referenced from text segment > /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_openinfo' referenced from text segment > /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment > /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment > /tmp/cc0141891.o: Undefined symbol `_yp_errno' referenced from text segment > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. I had these too during last make world and after another sup plus make includes I'm getting: r.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd -I. -c /usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/yppasswdd_server.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/yppasswdd_server.c: In function `update_inplace': /usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/yppasswdd_server.c:389: too many arguments to function `yp_open_db_rw' /usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/yppasswdd_server.c:398: too many arguments to function `yp_put_record' /usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/yppasswdd_server.c:410: too many arguments to function `yp_put_record' *** Error code 1 Stop. Is my sup still not up to date enough? > > Index: Makefile > =================================================================== > RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/usr.sbin/rpc.yppasswdd/Makefile,v > retrieving revision 1.3 > diff -u -2 -r1.3 Makefile > --- Makefile 1996/06/05 06:13:02 1.3 > +++ Makefile 1996/06/06 19:28:20 > @@ -3,5 +3,5 @@ > PROG= rpc.yppasswdd > SRCS= pw_copy.c pw_util.c util.c yppasswd_svc.c yp_error.c ypxfr_misc.c \ > - yp_dblookup.c yp_dbwrite yp_access.c yppasswd_private_xdr.c \ > + yp_dblookup.c yp_dbwrite.c yp_access.c yppasswd_private_xdr.c \ > yp_clnt.c yppasswdd_server.c yppasswd_comm.c yppasswdd_main.c > > There is also another bogon in yp_mkdb: > > 235 [21:33] root@keltia:usr.sbin/yp_mkdb# make > cc -O -m486 -pipe -Dyp_error=warnx -I/usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/../../usr.sbin/ypserv -c /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/yp_mkdb.c > /usr/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/yp_mkdb.c:50: ypxfr_extern.h: No such file or directory > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > > Maybe this ? > > Index: Makefile > =================================================================== > RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/usr.sbin/yp_mkdb/Makefile,v > retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 > diff -u -2 -r1.1.1.1 Makefile > --- Makefile 1996/04/28 04:16:05 1.1.1.1 > +++ Makefile 1996/06/06 19:37:12 > @@ -9,5 +9,5 @@ > > CFLAGS+= -Dyp_error=warnx > -CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/../../usr.sbin/ypserv > +CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/../../usr.sbin/ypserv -I${.CURDIR}/../../libexec/ypxfr > > .include > > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #7: Thu Jun 6 20:43:22 MET DST 1996 > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 04:56:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA09057 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 04:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA09024; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 04:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uS091-000QZwC; Fri, 7 Jun 96 13:55 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA00708; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:15:39 +0200 Message-Id: <199606071015.MAA00708@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: The -stable problem: my view To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:15:38 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry for the cross-posting, but I think we need to involve people in all three groups, since -current and -hackers will both be involved when -stable goes away. I buy most of Jordan's arguments about getting rid of -stable (though I'm not sure why CVS should be the problem. Sure, I don't like it either, but the way I see it, that's mainly a problem of documentation), and so I'm not going to argue against killing -stable, even though some good arguments have been put forward for its retention. To sum up my viewpoint, I see two problems with the present setup. For the most part, these aren't original ideas, but so much mail has gone by on the subject that I think it's a good idea to summarize: 1. -current and -stable diverge too much. This means that -stable really isn't, it's -dusty, and the occasions on which -current updates get folded into -stable are fiascos like we've experienced in the last week. That wasn't the intention. 2. -current goes through periods of greater and less stability. It's not practical for somebody who wants to run a stable system to track -current. On the other hand, the more stable periods of -current work very well. The real problem, as I see it, is finding a compromise between these two problems. Lots of people want a stable version of FreeBSD, but they also want bugs fixed. Many -stable users also want new features, such as support for new hardware. The -stable branch has diverged too far. What we need are shorter branches: say, we start a -stable branch at a point on the -current branch where things are relatively stable. Then we update it with bug fixes only for a relatively short period (say 4 to 8 weeks). *Then we ditch it and start again at a new point on the -current tree*. These branches could be called things like 2.2.1-stable, 2.2.2-stable, etc. Like this, we could have our relative stability while keeping the -stable branches more up to date. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >From Jordan's perspective, this is the main problem. From my personal perspective, it's completely irrelevant. I have another *big* problem: I've been trying to rebuild -stable for 5 days now, and I'm still not much closer to success than I was at the beginning. Yesterday I threw away everything I had and started again with a new checkout and a new make world. It's still barfing in an xterm behind this one as I write. My problem is simple: the build procedure is screwed up. It makes the assumption that I really want to run the version I'm building on the machine I'm building it on. It confuses the build environment with the execution environment. It installs components of the new system in the execution environment before the build is finished. As a result, if anything goes wrong, you end up with a system in an indeterminate state. This is a particular nuisance if header files have changed, and I think this is the biggest problem so far. There's no need for this. I've already modified my build environment to only use the header files in the /usr/src hierarchy, and it's easy enough to ensure that the executables and libraries also only come from the build environment. In case you're interested in the header files, you do ln -s /usr/src/sys/i386/include /usr/src/include/machine and in the Makefiles, you add CFLAGS += -nostdinc -I/usr/src/include -I/sys -I/sys/sys -I/sys/i386/include Possibly I've missed some header files in this, but that's just a matter of including them. Similar considerations would apply to paths for libraries and executables, but I haven't got that far yet. In addition, the build process depends far too much on removing components and rebuilding them. This makes builds take forever. For example, to rebuild a kernel, you first remove all the kernel objects. Why? BSD/OS has an almost identical build procedure, but it doesn't expect you to remove what you have. You do have to perform a make depend, of course, but even that can be automated. If somebody can point me to an example of where the dependency rules don't work, I'd be interested to see it. One possible argument is: what do you do if the definitions in the Makefile change? This can require files to be recompiled. Sure, if the IDENT definition in the Makefile changes, you can expect to have to recompile a whole lot of stuff, but there are ways to ensure that that isn't necessary. The most obvious, if not the most elegant, is to make all objects depend on the Makefile, and not to change the Makefile if nothing in the Makefile changes. A somewhat more sophisticated method would be to put the definitions in a file which is included by the Makefile, and depend only on that. Does anybody have any dependencies that couldn't be solved by this kind of method? So now you'll come and say, "OK, do it". I'm not just bitching: I am prepared to revise the whole build procedure. I think it would not take much longer than I've spent trying to build the current version. What do you people think? Greg From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 05:29:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA11390 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 05:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from timbuk.cray.com (root@timbuk.cray.com [128.162.19.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA11379 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 05:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crmunich0 (gwk@crmunich0.cray.com [134.14.1.1]) by timbuk.cray.com (8.7.5/CRI-gate-8-2.11) with SMTP id HAA13363 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 07:29:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: by crmunich0 id AA23488; 4.1/CRI-5.6a; Fri, 7 Jun 96 14:29:43 +0200 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 96 14:29:43 +0200 From: gwk@crmunich0.cray.com (Georg-Wilhelm Koltermann) Message-Id: <9606071229.AA23488@crmunich0> To: steve@gordian.com Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, steve@gordian.com In-Reply-To: <199606060544.WAA04867@delphi.gordian.com> (message from Steve Khoo on Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:44:01 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: NFS problem: Irix 5.2 server, 2.2-960501-SNAP client Reply-To: gwk@cray.com Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > From: Steve Khoo > Subject: NFS problem: Irix 5.2 server, 2.2-960501-SNAP client > To: freebsd-current-digest@FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:48:31 -0700 (PDT) > > I have an interesting nfs problem... > > The server is running irix 5.2 and the client is running 2.2-960501-SNAP. > The mount exit without any error, but when I do df, ls or pwd I get > the following: > > # df > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on > /dev/sd0a 49231 14290 31003 32% / > /dev/sd0s1f 1388387 446552 830765 35% /usr > /dev/sd0s1e 49231 797 44496 2% /var > procfs 4 4 0 100% /proc > hermes:/n/hermes 1468230 1316047 152183 90% /n/hermes > hermes:/n/hermes2 997025 867008 130016 87% /n/hermes2 > delphi:/n/delphi 639048 639048 0 100% /n/delphi > delphi:/n/delphi2 639048 639048 0 100% /n/delphi2 > # cd /n/delphi > # ls > ls: .: Not a directory > # pwd > pwd: Not a directory > # > > The last two filesystems listed in df are the problem filesystems. > > The funny thing is, I can nfs mount another SGI(hermes) also running > irix 5.2 without any problems. The server with problems(delphi) is a > Challenge S server and (hermes) is Indigo. The only difference I can > think of is, (hermes) was upgraded from irix 4.05 and the filesystem > was created in irix 4.05. All filesystems on (delphi) was created in > irix 5.2. > > Any ideas? > Just a thought: Did you try mounting with -o -P? Some NFS servers like to have that. Georg-W. Koltermann, gwk@cray.com From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 06:29:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA14475 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 06:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA14470; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 06:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA15554; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 06:29:35 -0700 (PDT) To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 12:15:38 +0200." <199606071015.MAA00708@allegro.lemis.de> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 06:29:35 -0700 Message-ID: <15552.834154175@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I buy most of Jordan's arguments about getting rid of -stable (though > I'm not sure why CVS should be the problem. Sure, I don't like it > either, but the way I see it, that's mainly a problem of > documentation), and so I'm not going to argue against killing -stable, Try using it _seriously_ someday and no explanation will be necessary. Suffice it to say that it has absolutely nothing to do with the documentation. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 07:01:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA16857 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 07:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plaut.de ([194.39.177.166]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA16852 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 07:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from totum.plaut.de (totum.plaut.de [194.39.177.9]) by plaut.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA28825 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:30:28 +0200 Received: (from root@localhost) by totum.plaut.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA13830; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:00:17 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:00:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: Michael Reifenberger To: FreeBSD-Current Subject: Huge files to be printed with lpr Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, i have a faxprogram which prints out via lpr. Unfortunatly the faxes gets truncated because they are too large. I don't want to use 'lpr -s' because I suspect the faxprogram to remove the printfile after 'lpr ... printfile' returns. Could lpr/lpd be changed to handle unlimitided (sort of) files? Thanks. Bye! ---- Michael Reifenberger From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 07:56:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA20205 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 07:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Kryten.nina.com (dyn022-gnv.51.fdt.net [205.229.51.23]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA20196 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 07:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from frankd@localhost) by Kryten.nina.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA00632; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:50:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank Seltzer X-Sender: frankd@Kryten.nina.com To: Michael Reifenberger cc: FreeBSD-Current Subject: Re: Huge files to be printed with lpr In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Michael Reifenberger wrote: > Hi, > i have a faxprogram which prints out via lpr. > Unfortunatly the faxes gets truncated because they are > too large. I don't want to use 'lpr -s' because I suspect > the faxprogram to remove the printfile after 'lpr ... printfile' > returns. > Could lpr/lpd be changed to handle unlimitided (sort of) files? > Thanks. > If you add mx#0 to your printcap, it won't choke on large files. > Bye! > ---- > Michael Reifenberger > Frank -- Only in America can a homeless veteran sleep in a cardboard box while a draft dodger sleeps in the White House. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 08:29:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA23071 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA23028; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA29241; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:29:32 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:29:32 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606071529.JAA29241@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <15552.834154175@time.cdrom.com> References: <199606071015.MAA00708@allegro.lemis.de> <15552.834154175@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I buy most of Jordan's arguments about getting rid of -stable (though > > I'm not sure why CVS should be the problem. Sure, I don't like it > > either, but the way I see it, that's mainly a problem of > > documentation), and so I'm not going to argue against killing -stable, > > Try using it _seriously_ someday and no explanation will be necessary. > Suffice it to say that it has absolutely nothing to do with the > documentation. I disagree that it's somehow so awful as to be un-doable, and I've been doing a *ton* of work in both -stable and -current. However, it's a *LOT* of work. However, I don't think this has anything to do with CVS, but has to do with the diverging of the trees. P3 may make it easier to do as far as resources, but the actual work of 'merging' in changes to both won't be any easier. Building the patches is the hard work IMHO, and this can't be automated in any real fashion in a safe manner for something like -stable by it's very nature, as John Polstra already pointed out. *Every* single patch I've brought into stable I eye-ball reviewed before I committed them (fat lot of good it did me for all those stupid syntax errors and such), but at least I knew what the functionality was supposed to do. This kind of work is necessary for -stable to exist, and apparently at least Jordan and David are completely unwillingly to do this. Do any of the developers (and Peter the CVS-meister) have anything to say? Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 09:00:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA26480 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [206.224.65.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA26467 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA13924 for freebsd-current@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:00:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Bob Willcox Message-Id: <199606071600.LAA13924@luke.pmr.com> Subject: Prob w/make world & libc! Pls help. To: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org (freebsd-current) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:00:24 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Since about June 3rd I have not been able to do a make world on my -current systems. They get as far as installation of a new libc.so.3.0 then every thing falls apart. Most commands then fail with signal 11's. I have to reinstall the old versions of the libraries to get the system back to a working state. Has there been some change that breaks compatibility between -current as of 6/1 and 6/3? I have scanned the freebsd mailing lists but could find nothing mentioned. This has happened on two of my systems (I know, I'm a glutton for punishment :-(). Here is how my "make -k world" fails: ... ===> libc install -c -o bin -g bin -m 444 libc.a /usr/lib install -c -o bin -g bin -m 444 -fschg libc.so.3.0 /usr/lib install -c -o bin -g bin -m 444 libc_pic.a /usr/lib *** Signal 11 (continuing) `install' not remade because of errors. ===> libcompat Memory fault - core dumped At this point the entire system is hosed. I have to reboot into single-user mode and restore the libraries to get it to work again. Please help...what am I missing? Thanks, -- Bob Willcox bob@luke.pmr.com Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 09:41:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA00382 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:41:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA00333; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA03313; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:41:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Fri, 7 Jun 96 10:42 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:42:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606071015.MAA00708@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Jun 7, 96 12:15:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Sorry for the cross-posting, but I think we need to involve people in > all three groups, since -current and -hackers will both be involved > when -stable goes away. > > I buy most of Jordan's arguments about getting rid of -stable (though > I'm not sure why CVS should be the problem. Sure, I don't like it > either, but the way I see it, that's mainly a problem of > documentation), and so I'm not going to argue against killing -stable, > even though some good arguments have been put forward for its > retention. Uh, yuck. If STABLE goes away, and I cannot get a known-to-build-and-run version at a given point in time, FreeBSD goes away here. Why? Because I *cannot possibly* track -current given the state of broken code we sometimes end up with (I have tried!) and that means keeping *at least* two machines and doing continual regression tests on the -current tree. I don't have a full-time engineer at present to devote to this, nor can I afford the single mistake that destroys our environment. I can put someone on this with a 4-10 hour per week commitment, but that's about it. Somehow, the -STABLE intent must remain. I don't care *how* it is accomplished, but it has to be accomplished. An example of the problems is the difficulty in running nntplink on -STABLE; sometime a couple of months ago something in the select() call broke, has not been fixed, and nntplink won't run any longer (and yes, we have been asking infrequently and did report this when it happened). This means that one particular machine that could *really* use the recent VM fixes can't have them, because if I load that kernel on our main news system it stops talking to anyone. Not good. > 1. -current and -stable diverge too much. This means that -stable > really isn't, it's -dusty, and the occasions on which -current > updates get folded into -stable are fiascos like we've experienced > in the last week. That wasn't the intention. Yes. But throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't the answer either. > 2. -current goes through periods of greater and less stability. It's > not practical for somebody who wants to run a stable system to > track -current. On the other hand, the more stable periods of > -current work very well. Correct as well. > What we need are shorter branches: say, we start a -stable branch at a > point on the -current branch where things are relatively stable. Then > we update it with bug fixes only for a relatively short period (say 4 > to 8 weeks). *Then we ditch it and start again at a new point on the > -current tree*. These branches could be called things like > 2.2.1-stable, 2.2.2-stable, etc. Like this, we could have our > relative stability while keeping the -stable branches more up to date. This will work if it is *clearly* documented when and if these things happen, and what you can (and cannot) keep at a given time (ie: if I must reload all the shared libraries then that effectively requires that I dump the machine and reload; this is a MAJOR problem if you're trying to track incremental improvements). .... > is included by the Makefile, and depend only on that. Does anybody > have any dependencies that couldn't be solved by this kind of method? ... > So now you'll come and say, "OK, do it". I'm not just bitching: I am > prepared to revise the whole build procedure. I think it would not > take much longer than I've spent trying to build the current version. > What do you people think? > > Greg I think it would be a *great* idea. A full build on a lightly-loaded P166 now requires nearly three hours, and that's too long for a SUP which only changes two files! -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 10:02:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA01987 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01938; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA29627; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:02:39 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:02:39 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606071702.LAA29627@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Build times (was Re: The -stable problem: my view) In-Reply-To: References: <199606071015.MAA00708@allegro.lemis.de> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > A full build on a lightly-loaded P166 now requires nearly three hours, > and that's too long for a SUP which only changes two files! If you are familiar with the build process, then you *don't* have to run a 'make world' everytime. Someone as familiar with system builds should be able to figure out the effects of changed files, but unfortunately this means you need to baby-sit the SUP update files to determine what changed instead of simplying firing off a make world after every update. I *never* run a make world, and rarely even run a global make, but when things do change I will do the necessary individual steps in a make world to bring my system back into 'make world' status. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 10:08:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA02564 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plaut.de ([194.39.177.166]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02555 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from totum.plaut.de (totum.plaut.de [194.39.177.9]) by plaut.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA29217; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:36:54 +0200 Received: (from root@localhost) by totum.plaut.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA14867; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:07:13 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:07:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: Michael Reifenberger To: Frank Seltzer cc: FreeBSD-Current Subject: Re: Huge files to be printed with lpr In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Frank Seltzer wrote: > Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:50:37 -0400 (EDT) > From: Frank Seltzer > To: Michael Reifenberger > Cc: FreeBSD-Current > Subject: Re: Huge files to be printed with lpr > > On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Michael Reifenberger wrote: > > > Hi, > > i have a faxprogram which prints out via lpr. > > Unfortunatly the faxes gets truncated because they are > > too large. I don't want to use 'lpr -s' because I suspect > > the faxprogram to remove the printfile after 'lpr ... printfile' > > returns. > > Could lpr/lpd be changed to handle unlimitided (sort of) files? > > Thanks. > > > > If you add mx#0 to your printcap, it won't choke on large files. Jo, thats what I was looking for. Thanks. Bye! ---- Michael Reifenberger From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 10:55:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA06121 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA06115 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id SAA00837; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:39:42 +0100 (BST) To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 12:15:38 +0200." <199606071015.MAA00708@allegro.lemis.de> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 18:39:41 +0100 Message-ID: <834.834169181@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Totally off-topic, so CC: limited appropriately ] Greg Lehey wrote in message ID <199606071015.MAA00708@allegro.lemis.de>: > One possible argument is: what do you do if the definitions in the > Makefile change? This can require files to be recompiled. Sure, if > the IDENT definition in the Makefile changes, you can expect to have > to recompile a whole lot of stuff, but there are ways to ensure that > that isn't necessary. The most obvious, if not the most elegant, is > to make all objects depend on the Makefile, and not to change the > Makefile if nothing in the Makefile changes. A somewhat more > sophisticated method would be to put the definitions in a file which > is included by the Makefile, and depend only on that. Does anybody > have any dependencies that couldn't be solved by this kind of method? > > So now you'll come and say, "OK, do it". I'm not just bitching: I am > prepared to revise the whole build procedure. I think it would not > take much longer than I've spent trying to build the current version. > What do you people think? I think it's already being worked on in -current, by moving the flags out of the Makefile into the opt_*.h files which allow make depend to work a lot better, and remove the need for some inteligence based on what goes on in the Makefile. If I understand it right, the evential aim is to only leave compiler-specific flags in the Makefile (e.g. -Wall, -O, etc). Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 11:28:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA08318 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:28:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA08311; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA03612; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:22:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606071822.LAA03612@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:22:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: grog@lemis.de, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <15552.834154175@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jun 7, 96 06:29:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I buy most of Jordan's arguments about getting rid of -stable (though > > I'm not sure why CVS should be the problem. Sure, I don't like it > > either, but the way I see it, that's mainly a problem of > > documentation), and so I'm not going to argue against killing -stable, > > Try using it _seriously_ someday and no explanation will be necessary. > Suffice it to say that it has absolutely nothing to do with the > documentation. The problem with CVS is access protocol. I've suggested (many times) that the way to resolve this is to establish reader/writer locks and a shell script interface for use by committers or other programs, and to require a successful build as part of the commit protocol: Checkout/merge: begin cvs lock read [ ... checkout ... ] cvs unlock end Checkin: begin cvs lock write [ ... checkout/merge ... ] [ ... successful build (including any necessary changes) ... ] [ ... checking ... ] cvs unlock end Locking protocol (locks are per repository, not global): cvs lock read <-- multiple read locks may be held; their effect is to allow other read locks and prevent any write locks. cvs lock write <--- one write lock can be held; there must be no read locks, or the write lock will fail. Yes, this serializes writes to a given repository. Reads will *always* return a *buildable* source tree. Tree copy for SUP/CTM delta building must be done with a read lock asserted. The global log message will give the character of a change spanning multiple files. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 12:05:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA11410 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [205.150.102.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA11393; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA25368; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:05:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:05:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: Greg Lehey , hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote: > If STABLE goes away, and I cannot get a known-to-build-and-run version at a > given point in time, FreeBSD goes away here. > -RELEASE is 'known-to-build-and-run'...and, I believe, so are -SNAPs, so you build all yuor machines with -RELEASE, and if you feel you need to upgrade, through -SNAP on one of your machines, run it for a week so that you are confident with it, and then upgrade the rest of your machines. I believe you do have several PCs running FreeBSD now, don't you? > I don't have a full-time engineer at present to devote to this, nor can > I afford the single mistake that destroys our environment. I can put > someone on this with a 4-10 hour per week commitment, but that's about it. > Sounds like the time to get a -SNAP installed... > Somehow, the -STABLE intent must remain. I don't care *how* it is > accomplished, but it has to be accomplished. An example of the problems is > the difficulty in running nntplink on -STABLE; sometime a couple of months > ago something in the select() call broke, has not been fixed, and nntplink > won't run any longer (and yes, we have been asking infrequently and did > report this when it happened). This means that one particular machine that > could *really* use the recent VM fixes can't have them, because if I load > that kernel on our main news system it stops talking to anyone. > *scratch head* if something in the select() call broke several months ago (and I *am* running -STABLE and -CURRENT machines), why wouldn't it affect everything that uses select()? I've been using innfeed here (much better then nntplink, IMHO) for the past month or so with absolutely no problems, or, no problems related to select() > > 2. -current goes through periods of greater and less stability. It's > > not practical for somebody who wants to run a stable system to > > track -current. On the other hand, the more stable periods of > > -current work very well. > > Correct as well. > Not *really* correct...that is what the -SNAPs are for...someone (Jordan?) determines that the *current* state of -current is stable enough to package as an install kit...similar to how someday, someone will decide that 2.2 is ready for release. Or, better yet, -current *is* 2.2 and the SNAPs are 2.2.x, and > > What we need are shorter branches: say, we start a -stable branch at a > > point on the -current branch where things are relatively stable. Then > > we update it with bug fixes only for a relatively short period (say 4 > > to 8 weeks). *Then we ditch it and start again at a new point on the > > -current tree*. These branches could be called things like > > 2.2.1-stable, 2.2.2-stable, etc. Like this, we could have our > > relative stability while keeping the -stable branches more up to date. > > This will work if it is *clearly* documented when and if these things > happen, and what you can (and cannot) keep at a given time (ie: if I must > reload all the shared libraries then that effectively requires that I dump > the machine and reload; this is a MAJOR problem if you're trying to track > incremental improvements). > Again, isn't this what Jordan is doing with his -SNAPs...stating that at this point in time, it is felt that -current has proven to be stable enough to make an install kit out of? Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 12:09:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12025 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [205.150.102.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12012 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA25390 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:09:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: current@freebsd.org Subject: make on /usr/src/share Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi... Are these "warnings" normal? I know nothing about sgml... ===> doc/handbook sgmlfmt -f ascii /usr/src/share/doc/handbook/handbook.sgml :95: warning: `SN' not defined :618: warning: can't break line :24075: warning: space required between `LP' and argument :30745: warning: `LH' not defined :30745: warning: `RH' not defined It works, so it doesn't seem to be affecting the build... Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 12:34:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA14177 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gordius.gordian.com (gordius.gordian.com [192.73.220.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA14157; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from delphi.gordian.com (delphi.gordian.com [192.73.220.125]) by gordius.gordian.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA07565; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by delphi.gordian.com (8.7.2/8.6.9) id MAA08925; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606071932.MAA08925@delphi.gordian.com> From: Steve Khoo To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org CC: jfesler@calweb.com, lars@elbe.desy.de, Georg-Wilhelm.Koltermann@gordian.com, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, steve@gordian.com In-reply-to: Steve Khoo's message of Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: NFS problem: Irix 5.2 server, 2.2-960501-SNAP client References: <199606040148.SAA12823@delphi.gordian.com> <199606060544.WAA04867@delphi.gordian.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Steve Khoo Subject: Re: NFS problem: Irix 5.2 server, 2.2-960501-SNAP client To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 22:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Help!!! I haven't got even one response. Am I the only one that have this problem? Anyway, I tried the latest -current and rolled back to 2.1R and still see the same problem with both. Thanks. SEK From: Steve Khoo Subject: NFS problem: Irix 5.2 server, 2.2-960501-SNAP client To: freebsd-current-digest@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:48:31 -0700 (PDT) I have an interesting nfs problem... The server is running irix 5.2 and the client is running 2.2-960501-SNAP. The mount exit without any error, but when I do df, ls or pwd I get the following: # df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/sd0a 49231 14290 31003 32% / /dev/sd0s1f 1388387 446552 830765 35% /usr /dev/sd0s1e 49231 797 44496 2% /var procfs 4 4 0 100% /proc hermes:/n/hermes 1468230 1316047 152183 90% /n/hermes hermes:/n/hermes2 997025 867008 130016 87% /n/hermes2 delphi:/n/delphi 639048 639048 0 100% /n/delphi delphi:/n/delphi2 639048 639048 0 100% /n/delphi2 # cd /n/delphi # ls ls: .: Not a directory # pwd pwd: Not a directory # The last two filesystems listed in df are the problem filesystems. The funny thing is, I can nfs mount another SGI(hermes) also running irix 5.2 without any problems. The server with problems(delphi) is a Challenge S server and (hermes) is Indigo. The only difference I can think of is, (hermes) was upgraded from irix 4.05 and the filesystem was created in irix 4.05. All filesystems on (delphi) was created in irix 5.2. Any ideas? I'd appreciate any help. Thanks! SEK Thanks for the all responses and suggestions... It looks like the problem is related to diskstriping on the Irix 5.2. We've been playing around with diskstriping on the sgi to improve performance. I truned off diskstriping and rebooted the sgi lastnight and all seems to be fine now. I supposed it is possible that the sgi was somehow hosed and rebooting fixed it. However, this is unlikely because nfs mounts to other systems were still working; I did umount and mount on sunos and hp machines to the sgi and worked without a problem. I'll have to test it again with striping truned ON on the sgi later, just to double check; Since this sgi is a production unit, I can't be rebooting it too many times. Anyway, we are pretty impressed with this P6 unit so far. We did some benchmarking with a realworld example(we use a gcc cross-compiler for embeded mips system and built one of our source tree), and here are the resuls: SGI 21 mins P6(NFS) 16 mins P6(local) 7 mins The source tree is on the SGI server. P6(NFS) is the compile time for the P6 with the source tree mounted via NFS from the SGI. P6(local) is with the source tree copied over to a local disk on P6. System specs: SGI Challenge S server (Irix 5.2) 150 Mhz R4600 MIPS Processor 160MB RAM Fast Wide Differential SCSI Controller Seagate Barracuda FWD SCSI drives: 2's and 4's 10BaseT NIC P6 (FreeBSD 2.2-960501-SNAP, kernel rebuilt without FAILSAFE option and all the other unnecessary drivers) Intel Pentium Pro 200 Mhz CPU 64M EDO RAM Asus P/I-P6RP4, Orion chipset stepping B0 motherboard NCR Fast Wide Differential SCSI Controller 4G Seagate Barracuda FWD SCSI drive SMC 9332DST 10/100BaseT DC2114 based NIC SEK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve E. Khoo Gordian Systems Manager 20361 Irvine Ave Internet: steve@gordian.com Santa Ana Heights, CA 92707 Phone: (714)850-0205 FAX: (714)850-0533 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 12:55:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA16188 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16130; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA00238; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:53:25 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:53:25 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606071953.NAA00238@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606071822.LAA03612@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <15552.834154175@time.cdrom.com> <199606071822.LAA03612@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > I buy most of Jordan's arguments about getting rid of -stable (though > > > I'm not sure why CVS should be the problem. Sure, I don't like it > > > either, but the way I see it, that's mainly a problem of > > > documentation), and so I'm not going to argue against killing -stable, > > > > Try using it _seriously_ someday and no explanation will be necessary. > > Suffice it to say that it has absolutely nothing to do with the > > documentation. > > The problem with CVS is access protocol. No, the problem is that CVS doesn't handle diverging source trees very well. The access to the tree is *completely* and *utterly* irrelevant to the problems at hand, and just because you want it changed doesn't mean you should get on your soapbox and call for it's implentation. Stick the to *problem* that's being discussed, not one that you (and only you) consider to be a real problem with CVS. You're tryin to break the model that CVS was designed for, and this part of the model is *NOT* one of the problems FreeBSD is facing now. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 13:10:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA17487 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17408; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00297; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:08:04 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:08:04 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606072008.OAA00297@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606071954.MAA03809@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199606071953.NAA00238@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199606071954.MAA03809@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > > Try using it _seriously_ someday and no explanation will be necessary. > > > > Suffice it to say that it has absolutely nothing to do with the > > > > documentation. > > > > > > The problem with CVS is access protocol. > > > > No, the problem is that CVS doesn't handle diverging source trees very > > well. The access to the tree is *completely* and *utterly* irrelevant > > to the problems at hand, and just because you want it changed doesn't > > mean you should get on your soapbox and call for it's implentation. > > > > Stick the to *problem* that's being discussed, not one that you (and > > only you) consider to be a real problem with CVS. > > > > You're tryin to break the model that CVS was designed for, and this part > > of the model is *NOT* one of the problems FreeBSD is facing now. > > Nate: you're wrong. > > The main argument against "let's get rid of -stable" is that -stable > is known to be buildable. If -current were known to be buildable, > it would support the argument for getting rid of -stable. No, the main arguement is that -stable is known to be -stable. -Current is almost always (95%) 'buildable', but it's not necessarily 'stable'. Current contains 'experimentable' (aka. known to be unstable) changes in it that stable doesn't (shouldn't) have. Heck, the tree would be buildable if the compiler wouldn't quit dumping core on you. :) As a matter of fact, the difference of the ability of 'stable' vs. 'current' regarding it's buildable state has *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING* to do with CVS in *ANY SHAPE OR FORM*. 0, nada, zip, nothing! It is the policy of the FreeBSD project that *any* of the commits done to the tree guarantee that the tree stays 'buildable'. However, this is not strictly enforced (by the developers). However, with -stable more care is taken to keep the tree 'buildable' than is generally taken in -current, but that's due to the developers, not to the tools. The percentage of getting an 'unbuildable' tree due to the tools is noise compared to the liklihood of a developer not doing ensuring the tree is buildable. They aren't even in the same scope, with the developer being responsible for 'unbuildableness' 99.9% of the time. > CVS can reconcile source trees (merge branch tags) just fine... we > did that sort of thing at Novell with a CVS version of three years > ago, no problems. No it *can't*. Don't tell me it can, because the trees have *radically* diverted over the last 15 months to the point that CVS *CAN'T* merge branches. It's *NOT POSSIBLE* to automate the process. So, telling me otherwise is simply showing your ignorance of the *TRUE* problem, which is *COMPLETELY* and *UTTERLY* unrelated to CVS's ability or lack thereof of 'locking' the tree. Please don't make me have to use my caps-lock key this much anymore. You couldn't be more wrong about the issue. (Well, maybe you could, but it would be hard and require serious intention to actually be wrong.) Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 14:18:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA22254 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22248; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04073; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:12:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606072112.OAA04073@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:12:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606072008.OAA00297@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jun 7, 96 02:08:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The main argument against "let's get rid of -stable" is that -stable > > is known to be buildable. If -current were known to be buildable, > > it would support the argument for getting rid of -stable. > > No, the main arguement is that -stable is known to be -stable. -Current > is almost always (95%) 'buildable', but it's not necessarily 'stable'. > Current contains 'experimentable' (aka. known to be unstable) changes in > it that stable doesn't (shouldn't) have. Heck, the tree would be > buildable if the compiler wouldn't quit dumping core on you. :) Regrettably, -current has had long bouts of it being unbuildable. The most recent (two week long) bout involved yacc build rule changes. There have also been partial commits of header file changes. The problem is the result of the partial commits, not the result of any inherent instability in -current (barring things like large VM commits, which are going to be destabilizing of -stable if -stable ever includes them as a reintegration). > As a matter of fact, the difference of the ability of 'stable' > vs. 'current' regarding it's buildable state has *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING* to > do with CVS in *ANY SHAPE OR FORM*. 0, nada, zip, nothing! Again, with respect, if it is impossible to check out from a tree until usage protocol (*not* CVS implementation) guarantees that the tree is buildable, and the same usage protocol prevents a checkin that isn't self-conssistent across all files in the archive, then the tree will *ALWAYS* be buildable, period. In other words, if a CVS tree can never be "check-out-able" and "unbuildable" at the same time, it will never be possible to have a checkout *not* build. > It is the policy of the FreeBSD project that *any* of the commits done > to the tree guarantee that the tree stays 'buildable'. However, this is > not strictly enforced (by the developers). However, with -stable more > care is taken to keep the tree 'buildable' than is generally taken in > -current, but that's due to the developers, not to the tools. If the developers won't enforce it, the tools and usage protocols should enforce it for them. That's the whole point of having a policy in the first place: to establish tree interaction protocols that don't have race conditions or holes in them. > The percentage of getting an 'unbuildable' tree due to the tools is > noise compared to the liklihood of a developer not doing ensuring the > tree is buildable. They aren't even in the same scope, with the > developer being responsible for 'unbuildableness' 99.9% of the time. Which is why the tools should force the developer to make the assurance. > > CVS can reconcile source trees (merge branch tags) just fine... we > > did that sort of thing at Novell with a CVS version of three years > > ago, no problems. > > No it *can't*. Don't tell me it can, because the trees have > *radically* diverted over the last 15 months to the point that CVS > *CAN'T* merge branches. It's *NOT POSSIBLE* to automate the process. This is a result of lack of discipline in terms of regularaly updating -stable. I think the confusion here is over what -stable is: is -stable a set of maintenance patches to the last -release, or is it a stable version of the -current tree? If the former, then it is unreasonable to expect it to contain all of the fixes that are in -current: specifically, *any* of the fixes that inhernetly affect system structure should *not* go into -stable. If the latter, then, what we are talking about is a mechanism for enforcing tagging of -current at synchronization points where the developers are known to have enforced the policy of "the tree must be buildable" (as you state, this is the responsibility of the developers to follow the checkin protocol that is being subverted). Pick one. > So, telling me otherwise is simply showing your ignorance of the *TRUE* > problem, which is *COMPLETELY* and *UTTERLY* unrelated to CVS's > ability or lack thereof of 'locking' the tree. CVS tree locking would force the developers to more closely adhere to the policy by limiting allowable tree interaction protocols that do not conform to stated policy. In other words, if the developers won't police themselves, the tools should force the policy upon them. I am open to other suggested soloutions (see below). > Please don't make me have to use my caps-lock key this much anymore. > You couldn't be more wrong about the issue. (Well, maybe you could, but > it would be hard and require serious intention to actually be wrong.) I think that you are misinterpreting my argument based on a former misinterpretation of the same argument in an earlier context, instead of taking it at face value in the current context. Instead of offering an implementation, perhaps you would be more comfortable with meta-discussion: ========================================================================== Inre: buildability of -current 1) -current is often not buildable 2) we posit this is disruptive, both to the developement and testing processes, and to the good name and faith of FreeBSD. 3) we posit that there are protocols, which, if obeyed, would cause -current to *always* be buildable 4) we evidentiarily conclude that these protocols are not being obeyed 5) we further conclude that IF the protocols are in fact as desirable as to cause their implementation, AND that the policy was, in fact, good policy, THEN some unspecified form of coercion causing developers to obey the protocols is ALSO desirable, given demonstrable failures of the existing non-coercive policy implementation Inre: buildablitiy of -stable 1) we generally acknowledge that -stable starts as -release, just as -current starts as -release 2) we posit that -stable is not buildable in approximately the same propotion to its change frequency (*not* rate) as -current is not buildable 3) we conclude that -stable may also benefit from enforcement of use of protocols designed to implement policy Inre: function of -stable 1) we acknowled the function of -stable to be as an intermediate tree, between -release and -current 2) we posit that the relationship -stable bears to -release vs. that it bears to -current is generally acknowledged to be indeterminate at this time, with cause cited as there being a dichotomy in administrative policy applied to -stable that has not been resolved 3) we posit that the relationship goals for -current and -release are conflicting, and that this is the source of the policy dichotomy 4) we conclude that the function of -stable needs to be defined, since it is meeting neiter relationship criteria to the general satisfaction of the parties involved 5) we note that one potential resoloution would be to eliminate the implied -stable/-current relationship entirely (as has been proposed by others) in favor of causing -current itself to fulfill that role by meeting the -stable buildability criteria, assuming the previously referenced problems are resolved first Implementation: TBD ========================================================================== Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 14:28:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA23146 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23093; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA00653; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:27:15 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:27:15 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606072127.PAA00653@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606072112.OAA04073@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199606072008.OAA00297@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199606072112.OAA04073@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The main argument against "let's get rid of -stable" is that -stable > > > is known to be buildable. If -current were known to be buildable, > > > it would support the argument for getting rid of -stable. > > > > No, the main arguement is that -stable is known to be -stable. -Current > > is almost always (95%) 'buildable', but it's not necessarily 'stable'. > > Current contains 'experimentable' (aka. known to be unstable) changes in > > it that stable doesn't (shouldn't) have. Heck, the tree would be > > buildable if the compiler wouldn't quit dumping core on you. :) > > Regrettably, -current has had long bouts of it being unbuildable. The > most recent (two week long) bout involved yacc build rule changes. > There have also been partial commits of header file changes. Due to the developer not doing his job. > The problem is the result of the partial commits, not the result of > any inherent instability in -current (barring things like large VM > commits, which are going to be destabilizing of -stable if -stable > ever includes them as a reintegration). Yes, it was due to the developer not finishing the job that was started. If the tree was locked down at the start of the commit, and then unlocked after the commit finished the job would still not be done. If I only do 50% of the job in one day, the remaining 50% still needs to be done, no matter what kind of tools I have. > > > As a matter of fact, the difference of the ability of 'stable' > > vs. 'current' regarding it's buildable state has *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING* to > > do with CVS in *ANY SHAPE OR FORM*. 0, nada, zip, nothing! > > Again, with respect, if it is impossible to check out from a tree > until usage protocol (*not* CVS implementation) guarantees that > the tree is buildable, and the same usage protocol prevents a > checkin that isn't self-conssistent across all files in the archive, > then the tree will *ALWAYS* be buildable, period. This is basically unenforceable at the tool level. The amount of work required to do the 'lint/build/test/etc' *AT* commit time is so beyond the scope of the entire project as to be humorous. > In other words, if a CVS tree can never be "check-out-able" and > "unbuildable" at the same time, it will never be possible to have > a checkout *not* build. Then *FORCE* the developers to *NEVER* check in changes which cause the tree to be unbuildable. That's the *only* solution. There is no other solution to the problem, and locking the tree down during the commit won't make it any more buildable. You have to *FORCE* the developers to only make changes which keep the tree buildable, and this is a problem whose scope is beyond the resources of FreeBSD. Changing to tools to force the developers to keep a buildable tree 'simply won't happen'. Period. End of discussion. The resources aren't there, and I doubt the developers would stand for it in any case because anything your tools do to enforce policy can be circumvented and generally only cause the developers more grief to 'jump through hoops' to get code accepted. This is counter-productive to the entire 'FreeBSD' philosophy. Now, if you want to hire all of us and dock our pay if we check in un-buildable changes then go for it, but until there is a compelling reason to 'do my best' to keep the tree buildable with the current tools then you are wasting bytes. The benefits of 'forcing' commits to be always buildable do not even come close to touching the costs involved. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 14:49:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA25655 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA25647 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA04600; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 07:42:20 +1000 Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 07:42:20 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199606072142.HAA04600@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: current@freebsd.org, scrappy@ki.net Subject: Re: make on /usr/src/share Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Are these "warnings" normal? I know nothing about sgml... >===> doc/handbook >sgmlfmt -f ascii /usr/src/share/doc/handbook/handbook.sgml >:95: warning: `SN' not defined >:618: warning: can't break line >:24075: warning: space required between `LP' and argument >:30745: warning: `LH' not defined >:30745: warning: `RH' not defined They've been there for a year or two so they are "normal". There are about 700 lines of similar warnings from `make -ss' in /usr/src. The list doesn't change much often. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 14:51:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA26019 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26007 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id aa11735; 7 Jun 96 22:49 +0100 Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa20631; 7 Jun 96 22:48 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA15067; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:42:28 GMT Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:42:28 GMT Message-Id: <199606072142.VAA15067@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: toor@dyson.iquest.net CC: plm@xs4all.nl, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199606070300.WAA01131@dyson.iquest.net> (toor@dyson.iquest.net) Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No guarantees, but I found a *major* omission in pmap.c. Replace the > pmap_object_init_pt routine in pmap.c with the following, and see how > things go: Seems to have stood up to everything I've thrown at it so far... -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland | http://freefall.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ james@jraynard.demon.co.uk | jraynard@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 15:05:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA27237 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27224; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04189; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:59:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606072159.OAA04189@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:59:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606072127.PAA00653@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jun 7, 96 03:27:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Regrettably, -current has had long bouts of it being unbuildable. The > > most recent (two week long) bout involved yacc build rule changes. > > There have also been partial commits of header file changes. > > Due to the developer not doing his job. I agree. > > The problem is the result of the partial commits, not the result of > > any inherent instability in -current (barring things like large VM > > commits, which are going to be destabilizing of -stable if -stable > > ever includes them as a reintegration). > > Yes, it was due to the developer not finishing the job that was started. > If the tree was locked down at the start of the commit, and then > unlocked after the commit finished the job would still not be done. If > I only do 50% of the job in one day, the remaining 50% still needs to be > done, no matter what kind of tools I have. Policy would dictate that the developer responsible would get hate mail from everyone who *did* follow policy, and was unable to commit as a result of the first developers actions. > > Again, with respect, if it is impossible to check out from a tree > > until usage protocol (*not* CVS implementation) guarantees that > > the tree is buildable, and the same usage protocol prevents a > > checkin that isn't self-conssistent across all files in the archive, > > then the tree will *ALWAYS* be buildable, period. > > This is basically unenforceable at the tool level. The amount of work > required to do the 'lint/build/test/etc' *AT* commit time is so beyond > the scope of the entire project as to be humorous. I am not suggesting enforcing this at the tool level; I'm suggesting that the tools should be set up so that this is the "natural" result of their proper use. Right now, it is possible to properly use the tools in accordance with policy and end up with an unbuildable tree. This can happen because, while I am ensuring buildability prior to doing my commits, another developer can be doing commits, and invalidate all of the work I have just done to provide my assurances. There is little incentive for me, as a developer, to do work that will likely be ineffectual, even if it's "policy". > > In other words, if a CVS tree can never be "check-out-able" and > > "unbuildable" at the same time, it will never be possible to have > > a checkout *not* build. > > Then *FORCE* the developers to *NEVER* check in changes which cause the > tree to be unbuildable. That's the *only* solution. There is no other > solution to the problem, and locking the tree down during the commit > won't make it any more buildable. You have to *FORCE* the developers to > only make changes which keep the tree buildable, and this is a problem > whose scope is beyond the resources of FreeBSD. Only because we allow simultaneous checkins so that the complexity of ensuring the tree is buildable is an order of magnitude higher than it needs to be. In reality, common usage will dictate that the tree is checked out of *vastly* more than it is checked into, so a checkin serialization that doesn't affect checkout is probably desirable. The side benefit that you could know that the tree was not in a partially inconsistent state (in the middle of a checkin) at the time you do your checkout is also worthwhile, especially for producing consistent SUP/CTM images of the CVS that maintain the same policy guarantees as the main tree. You *could* choose to checkout while a write tag was in force, or to checkout without asserting a read tag, allowing a write to occur in the middle of your checkout, leving you with an inconsistent tree. But you would have to consciously do so. > Changing to tools to force the developers to keep a buildable tree > 'simply won't happen'. Period. End of discussion. The resources > aren't there, and I doubt the developers would stand for it in any case > because anything your tools do to enforce policy can be circumvented and > generally only cause the developers more grief to 'jump through hoops' > to get code accepted. This isn't true. The developers doing checkin would need to jump through the additional hoop of assuring us that they were not turning the tree to shit (effectively). This is something policy says they should be doing anyway. > This is counter-productive to the entire 'FreeBSD' philosophy. Providing high quality free software? > Now, if you want to hire all of us and dock our pay if we check in > un-buildable changes then go for it, but until there is a compelling > reason to 'do my best' to keep the tree buildable with the current tools > then you are wasting bytes. As long as you are using the current tools, I'm wasting bytes. As far as "hiring everyone and forcing them to play by the rules using reactive enforcement", it's silly. Even if I could hire everyone, I'd still implement a *proactive*, NOT *reactive*, system for policy enforcement. If I *did* hire everyone, the first thing I'd do would be to merge the FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD efforts together to increase gross efficiency, not diddle around with policy models to increase net efficiency... I'd save that diddling for later. Since I can't do this, and I realize that you can't force volunteers to work together like you can force employees (with a whip made of money to use as a tool), I'd like to diddle with increasing net efficiency in FreeBSD. Especially now that you and others have haised the issue in the first place. > The benefits of 'forcing' commits to be always buildable do not even > come close to touching the costs involved. All I have ever suggested was configuring the tools in such a way as to force adherence to *some* aspects of policy. Obviously, I can't force use of consistency protocols down the line (as you point out, the cost of compilation for a commit makes the very idea humorous), even if I was declared "tool god" for the time needed to implement the protocols in the tools. If something like this could resolve the -stable relationship with -release vs. -current, or if it could increase the overall usability of the -stable and -current CVS trees for SUP/CTM consumers, it would be well worth the effort. You can't build a house with a hunk missing out of the foundation, and the point of FreeBSD is to provide a platform for others to build things, *as well* as allowing people to hack on the platform itself. It's as much for the people building the houses as it is for the people pouring the foundations. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 15:09:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA27677 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27635; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA00896; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:07:47 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:07:47 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606072207.QAA00896@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606072159.OAA04189@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199606072127.PAA00653@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199606072159.OAA04189@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Again, with respect, if it is impossible to check out from a tree > > > until usage protocol (*not* CVS implementation) guarantees that > > > the tree is buildable, and the same usage protocol prevents a > > > checkin that isn't self-conssistent across all files in the archive, > > > then the tree will *ALWAYS* be buildable, period. > > > > This is basically unenforceable at the tool level. The amount of work > > required to do the 'lint/build/test/etc' *AT* commit time is so beyond > > the scope of the entire project as to be humorous. > > I am not suggesting enforcing this at the tool level; I'm suggesting > that the tools should be set up so that this is the "natural" result > of their proper use. > > Right now, it is possible to properly use the tools in accordance > with policy and end up with an unbuildable tree. Yes, but only if the developer isn't paying attention. This has happened less times than I can count on two hands. Considering that we're probably approaching hundreds of thousands of commits since we've started, I'd say we're doing pretty well and that nothing needs to change as far as that part of commit process goes. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 15:21:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA28552 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA28541; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA04267; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:15:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606072215.PAA04267@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:15:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606072207.QAA00896@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jun 7, 96 04:07:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I am not suggesting enforcing this at the tool level; I'm suggesting > > that the tools should be set up so that this is the "natural" result > > of their proper use. > > > > Right now, it is possible to properly use the tools in accordance > > with policy and end up with an unbuildable tree. > > Yes, but only if the developer isn't paying attention. This has > happened less times than I can count on two hands. Considering that > we're probably approaching hundreds of thousands of commits since we've > started, I'd say we're doing pretty well and that nothing needs to > change as far as that part of commit process goes. Look, I hate coming back to the recent yacc stuff because it makes it look like I'm pointing fingers, but it's just the most recent example in a long line of examples that belie your statement. If this weren't such a hot issue, everyone wouldn't be so ready to fly off the handle over it (you and me included). I don't want to argue the thing into the ground; you have my opinions, my reasoning behind those opinions, and my suggested approach to solving at least part of the problem (with one example method using the suggested approach). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 15:26:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA29015 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA28966; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA00983; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:24:49 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:24:49 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606072224.QAA00983@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606072215.PAA04267@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199606072207.QAA00896@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199606072215.PAA04267@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I am not suggesting enforcing this at the tool level; I'm suggesting > > > that the tools should be set up so that this is the "natural" result > > > of their proper use. > > > > > > Right now, it is possible to properly use the tools in accordance > > > with policy and end up with an unbuildable tree. > > > > Yes, but only if the developer isn't paying attention. This has > > happened less times than I can count on two hands. Considering that > > we're probably approaching hundreds of thousands of commits since we've > > started, I'd say we're doing pretty well and that nothing needs to > > change as far as that part of commit process goes. > > Look, I hate coming back to the recent yacc stuff because it makes > it look like I'm pointing fingers, but it's just the most recent > example in a long line of examples that belie your statement. Poul didn't finish what he started. That was bad, but the locking protocol of CVS wouldn't have done anything to solve that problem. The only way to solve that problem is to either build in enough smarts into the tool so that you *can't* commit code that causes the tree to break (basically impossible given the current resources), or have the developers police themselves and use 'people' to enforce the rules. The issue you brought up was the somehow CVS locking would solve part of the problem, so it's irrelevant to the problem at hand re: -stable vs. -current. No more shall be said by me since all that needs to be said has been. (and then some). Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 15:30:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA29456 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gargoyle.bazzle.com ([206.103.246.190]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA29424; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ejc@localhost) by gargoyle.bazzle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA00664; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:46:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Eric J. Chet" To: dyson@freebsd.org cc: dob@gargoyle.bazzle.com, current@freebsd.org Subject: VM holding with the latest pmap 960607 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Great work John, thank you. load averages: 8.46, 7.41, 4.29 17:43:45 72 processes: 9 running, 63 sleeping Cpu states: 82.4% user, 0.0% nice, 14.5% system, 3.1% interrupt, 0.0% idle Mem: 15M Active, 2876K Inact, 15M Wired, 4068K Cache, 4290K Buf, 140K Free Swap: 131M Total, 127M Used, 3716K Free, 97% Inuse, 2024K In, 772K Out PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 368 ejc 86 0 12M 1460K RUN 1:02 10.57% 10.57% dr3d 448 ejc 87 0 12M 1284K RUN 0:49 10.53% 10.53% dr3d 193 ejc 87 0 12M 1280K RUN 1:49 10.53% 10.53% dr3d 242 ejc 86 0 12M 1692K RUN 1:22 10.49% 10.49% dr3d 380 ejc -18 0 12M 1464K swread 1:00 10.49% 10.49% dr3d 335 ejc 86 0 12M 1300K RUN 1:07 10.49% 10.49% dr3d 207 ejc 86 0 12M 1312K RUN 1:31 10.41% 10.41% dr3d 425 ejc 86 0 12M 1452K RUN 0:53 10.38% 10.38% dr3d 263 ejc 2 0 4584K 1920K select 0:17 3.93% 3.93% XF86_Mach64 621 ejc -18 0 6304K 888K vnread 0:06 1.26% 1.26% netscape.bin 2 root -18 0 0K 12K psleep 0:11 0.99% 0.99% pagedaemon 636 ejc 2 0 3664K 648K select 0:06 0.50% 0.50% xemacs-19.13 267 ejc 2 0 388K 340K select 0:02 0.19% 0.19% fvwm 172 news -18 0 3548K 1508K RUN 0:01 0.11% 0.11% innd 648 root 2 0 180K 400K sbwait 0:00 0.80% 0.08% rnews 640 root 10 0 452K 132K wait 0:00 0.09% 0.08% sh 76 root 2 0 204K 220K select 0:00 0.04% 0.04% syslogd Eric J. Chet - ejc@bazzle.com - Powered by FreeBSD Lucent Technologies, Bell Labs Innovations - ejc@nasvr1.cb.att.com Columbus, Ohio 43213 RM 1E222 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 16:00:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA01613 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01607; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA16854; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:00:23 -0700 (PDT) To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 09:29:32 MDT." <199606071529.JAA29241@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 16:00:23 -0700 Message-ID: <16852.834188423@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > doing a *ton* of work in both -stable and -current. However, it's a > *LOT* of work. However, I don't think this has anything to do with CVS, > but has to do with the diverging of the trees. P3 may make it easier to > do as far as resources, but the actual work of 'merging' in changes to > both won't be any easier. Building the patches is the hard work IMHO, I think you're forgetting the problem with cvs where: 1. You make a change in -release. 2. You merge it into -stable. 3. You make another change in -release. 4. You go to do another merge into -stable and wind up with a whole *mess* of conflicts. `cvs update -j' is NOT a decent merge tool! Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 16:07:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA02203 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:07:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA02154; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA01251; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:06:47 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:06:47 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606072306.RAA01251@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <16852.834188423@time.cdrom.com> References: <199606071529.JAA29241@rocky.sri.MT.net> <16852.834188423@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > doing a *ton* of work in both -stable and -current. However, it's a > > *LOT* of work. However, I don't think this has anything to do with CVS, > > but has to do with the diverging of the trees. P3 may make it easier to > > do as far as resources, but the actual work of 'merging' in changes to > > both won't be any easier. Building the patches is the hard work IMHO, > > I think you're forgetting the problem with cvs where: > > 1. You make a change in -release. > 2. You merge it into -stable. > 3. You make another change in -release. > 4. You go to do another merge into -stable and wind up with a whole *mess* > of conflicts. `cvs update -j' is NOT a decent merge tool! I don't use 'cvs update -j' to merge it into -stable. 'merge' doesn't work when you've already merged. What *I* do is this, which is a bit more work but does do the job 95% of the time. % cvs log file-to-merge. (Figure out which revision(s) needs to go into the branch). % cvs diff -c -r1.A -r1.B file-to-merge > cdif % cvs update -r BRANCH_TAG % patch file-to-merge < cdif .... % emacs -nw file-to-merge file-to-merge.rej .... % cvs diff -bu file-to-merge [ Review the merged patch, make sure it's ok, build/test/etc. on my box ] % cvs commit file-to-merge This is alot of work, but it *does* the job. Whole-scale merging of trees and directories doesn't work when the trees have already been merged. CVS doesn't operate on the principal of 'everlasting' branches that keep getting 'merges' happen to them. As I understand the CVS model, if we merged everything into -stable, then we should build a new branch at that point in -current since the files are merged. Merges are 'merges', not 'sort of merges'. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 16:28:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA03487 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA03481; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA16974; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:27:55 -0700 (PDT) To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey), hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 10:42:00 CDT." Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 16:27:55 -0700 Message-ID: <16972.834190075@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't have a full-time engineer at present to devote to this, nor can > I afford the single mistake that destroys our environment. I can put > someone on this with a 4-10 hour per week commitment, but that's about it. > .. > Somehow, the -STABLE intent must remain. I don't care *how* it is > accomplished, but it has to be accomplished. An example of the problems is Well, then I think it's time for you ISPs to start donating more resources to us. It's a pretty simple equation which would be solved in the commercial world by us charging you more money. Since we're not in the commercial world, then it stands to reason that if you or anyone else wants feature or service "X", which we claim is beyond our resources, then it's your task to ensure that we have the resources we need. Knowing your position of relative wealth (far more than any of ours), why not hire a part-timer and "give" him to us? He can work with the other full or part time programmers the other ISPs (or other commercial interests) hire to make -stable everything you want it to be. Everybody gets what they want then - we stop having our very limited resources bifurcated, you get your -stable branch. Anyway, let's Just Do It or stop pounding shoes on the table talking about how "-stable MUST NOT DIE!" and it's up to the current developers to pull a rabbit out of their hats and somehow make it all work. I'd be happy to talk to Karl (or anyone else) about co-managing whatever human resources they can donate to the project. I should also note here that any other proposals which involve me or anyone closely involved in -current development doing the work will be politely deleted - I think I've already made my position more than clear and I will not be budged on it. It's just too much work, members of the core team have complained to me in private that -stable was sucking the life force out of the project (or refused to participate in -stable at all) and they wished we'd stop, this is not a problem that suddenly appeared - it's been 15 months in the making and now we need some additional man power if we're going to deal with it in any more permanant fashion. As I said, I'd be more than happy to talk with the "vested interest" folks in seeing how they personally might not take more responsibility for the -stable service they've come to appreciate. Everyone always talks about how they'd like to give something back, well, here's a golden opportunity! Give me about 2 - 3 part-time employees and I'll give you back a -stable that will make all of us very happy. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 16:40:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA04441 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from masternet.it (root@masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA04429 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from socrate.gea.org (ts1port12d.masternet.it [194.184.65.34]) by masternet.it (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA09951; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:37:12 +0200 Message-ID: <31B8B1CD.41C67EA6@masternet.it> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 00:48:45 +0200 From: Beck Peccoz Amedeo X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pat Barron CC: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, "Marc G. Fournier" Subject: Re: No more logins References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Pat Barron (and Marc G, Fournier) wrote: > > The error message seems pretty straightforward. Did you check the > permissions? > > As long as you can get in as root, do this: > > % ls -ld / > % ls -ld /bin > % ls -l /bin/csh > > I suspect you will find that one of those directories/files has > been made inaccessible to ordinary users. Nope: #ls -ld / /bin /bin/csh -r-xr-xr-x 1 bin bin 241664 Jun 7 07:05 /bin/csh drwxr-xr-x 19 root wheel 512 Jun 7 08:37 / drwxr-xr-x 2 bin bin 1024 Jun 7 07:05 /bin Anyway the problem appeared with ctm 1854 and disappeard with ctm 1858. I.e. now logins work... -- Beck-Peccoz Amedeo GEA Software S.r.l. Via Deffeyes, 1 11025 Gressoney Saint Jean (AO) ITALY Tel. ++39-125-366302 Fax. ++39-125-366415 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 16:42:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA04531 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA04524; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA17088; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:40:55 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: grog@lemis.de, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 11:22:35 PDT." <199606071822.LAA03612@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 16:40:55 -0700 Message-ID: <17086.834190855@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The problem with CVS is access protocol. I've suggested (many times) > that the way to resolve this is to establish reader/writer locks and > a shell script interface for use by committers or other programs, and Oh, did I also forget to mention that CVS's locking code is totally bogus and slow? :-) It takes *two hours* to check out a copy of /usr/src, not to mention all the time wasted in locking down the tree during commits (CVS crawls through the area you're committing and slaps down lock files everywhere, very very slowly). Then there's the wonderful feeling when you've done a whole set of cleanups to /usr/src and have to do a "commit from the top" - you wait 45 minutes for it to crawl its way through, only to be informed at the end that somebody changed a file in some _completely unrelated_ section of the tree and now, rather than simply merging it in for you (e.g. this is NOT a conflict situation!) CVS aborts and says "I can't go on!". You need to update in the change then start your commit all over again. Sorry, CVS is not my favorite utility. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 16:49:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA05187 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05182; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA04537; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:42:54 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606072342.QAA04537@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:42:54 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, grog@lemis.de, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <17086.834190855@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jun 7, 96 04:40:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The problem with CVS is access protocol. I've suggested (many times) > > that the way to resolve this is to establish reader/writer locks and > > a shell script interface for use by committers or other programs, and > > Oh, did I also forget to mention that CVS's locking code is totally > bogus and slow? :-) > > It takes *two hours* to check out a copy of /usr/src, not to mention > all the time wasted in locking down the tree during commits (CVS > crawls through the area you're committing and slaps down lock files > everywhere, very very slowly). Gee, if only you had top level reader/writer locks so you could turn off the per file locking if a global lock was present and spend about 16,000 less lock/unlock calls. 8-). > Then there's the wonderful feeling when you've done a whole set of cleanups > to /usr/src and have to do a "commit from the top" - you wait 45 minutes > for it to crawl its way through, only to be informed at the end that > somebody changed a file in some _completely unrelated_ section of the > tree and now, rather than simply merging it in for you (e.g. this is NOT > a conflict situation!) CVS aborts and says "I can't go on!". You need > to update in the change then start your commit all over again. Gee, if only you had top level reader/writeer locks that were multiple reader/single writer to serialize groups of changes over a set of 'n' files. 8-). > Sorry, CVS is not my favorite utility. The problem isn't CVS, it's what you put on top of it. You might as well blame RCS for you CVS problems as CVS for your protocol/policy enforcement problems. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 16:56:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA05781 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA05775; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA17189; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:56:30 -0700 (PDT) To: "Marc G. Fournier" cc: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , Greg Lehey , hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 15:05:32 EDT." Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 16:56:29 -0700 Message-ID: <17187.834191789@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Again, isn't this what Jordan is doing with his -SNAPs...stating > that at this point in time, it is felt that -current has proven to be > stable enough to make an install kit out of? Uh, no. :-) I produce SNAPs when there's something we want to _test_, not because they signifify stability milestones (in fact, if something really contraversial and in need of testing has just gone in, I'm prone to make a SNAP of it). Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 17:35:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA09190 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:35:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA09150; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606080035.RAA09150@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Nate Williams cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 17:06:47 MDT." <199606072306.RAA01251@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 17:35:43 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> 4. You go to do another merge into -stable and wind up with a whole *mess* >> of conflicts. `cvs update -j' is NOT a decent merge tool! > >I don't use 'cvs update -j' to merge it into -stable. 'merge' doesn't >work when you've already merged. What *I* do is this, which is a bit >more work but does do the job 95% of the time. Can't use use some "-r"'s with -j to make this work better? Granted you still have to look at the log file. >Nate -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 17:49:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA10451 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.16.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA10441; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01116; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:48:42 -0700 (PDT) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey), hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 16:27:55 PDT." <16972.834190075@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 17:48:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1114.834194921@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <16972.834190075@time.cdrom.com>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > >Well, then I think it's time for you ISPs to start donating more >resources to us. I would like to back this argument a little bit too. Quite frankly, I'm proud as hell when you people brag about what you're doing with FreeBSD. I'm proud as hell when I wear my FreeBSD T-shirt. I have bought more hardware of more weird sorts than anybody would think they would ever need, and certainly more than I'd ever buy if I didn't care about the quality of installation tools and methods for FreeBSD and other such stuff. I could have started an ISP instead, I could have made money instead. I know I have spent time to the tune of $100K on FreeBSD instead of doing paid work. So far I have no problem with that either because, most of it was fun, and most of the rest of it were just plainly needed to get FreeBSD over a hurdle. What I'm more than a little bit disappointed with, is the number of quite obvious commercial entities with their relative amounts of success and dependencies on FreeBSD that have sent an email to -core saying, "Hi, we owe you people something, what can we do for you in return ?" If somebody were to be paid for doing FreeBSD work part-time, with the understanding that "it may not be fun, that's why we pay you!" we could get a lot of menial tasks done that simply don't get done because they're not any fun to do in your sparetime. Things like regression testing, documentation, upgrade procedures... Another alternative is to get sufficient money that one or more of the really good FreeBSD people could actually sustain life doing nothing but FreeBSD. Both of these things would help a lot, and it goes without saying that any donation on that kind of scale would result in a higher level of awareness for the donors problems and wishes. But even if you cannot afford that kind of donations, you can still donate to us. The information for donating money is on our web-pages. How about donating $25 every time you install or upgrade a machine with FreeBSD ? That would still be less than half the price of any other thing you could install, say, MS-DOS 6.22 or Windows 95... So, guys, if FreeBSD is so useful to you and your business, maybe you need to think about how you can be useful to the FreeBSD project. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 18:01:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA11912 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11887; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:01:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA17512; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:59:42 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 14:59:14 PDT." <199606072159.OAA04189@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 17:59:42 -0700 Message-ID: <17510.834195582@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Jordan, not looking where he's going, stupidly blunders into this conversation. He won't appreciate the magnitude of his mistake until later.. ] OK, wait a sec.. Let me play reductionist for a moment and see if some less complex scheme that doesn't start with "first, we construct some sub-molecular assemblers" can be devised (Terry goes "Awwwww! That'd be no fun then!"). The question here seems to be "how can we give the users a tree which always builds", right? Well, that's certainly not a new question. Even crazed expatriate brits like Julian Stacey have been calling for that sort of scheme for years! :-) I think the _last_ time we went around this merry-go-round, during which time many of the exact same ideas were floated and rejected as highly impractical, we decided that the best way of doing it would be through some selectively cvs-updated trees which were both available for further supping and used to generate CTM deltas. When to update the tree would be gated by the collection of "tokens" from one or more (preferably more) "token generators". Each time a cooperating machined finished a make world, it would send off a token of some sort (could be an email message) to the server saying, in essence "make world [completed successfully/failed] from tree [blah] on date [blah]" My guess is that you'd run these guys once a night, the token receiver waiting 24 hours for all the reports to filter in and then counting them up, finally generating a go/no go decision on cvs updating the tree. Get somebody to implement the framework, call for volunteer systems to be "token generators", install the server on freefall and have it use the scheme to keep the -current and -stable trees up to date. Anyone wanting more granular updates can always sup/ctm the CVS tree, right? Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 18:08:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA12717 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA12690; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA17607; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:07:47 -0700 (PDT) To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 17:06:47 MDT." <199606072306.RAA01251@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 18:07:47 -0700 Message-ID: <17605.834196067@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't use 'cvs update -j' to merge it into -stable. 'merge' doesn't Yes, but I'd like to be able to is kinda the point. The kinds of gyrations you describe as being necessary only underscore my point.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 18:14:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA13252 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA13218; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA01864; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:14:08 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:14:08 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606080114.TAA01864@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <17605.834196067@time.cdrom.com> References: <199606072306.RAA01251@rocky.sri.MT.net> <17605.834196067@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't use 'cvs update -j' to merge it into -stable. 'merge' doesn't > > Yes, but I'd like to be able to is kinda the point. The kinds of gyrations > you describe as being necessary only underscore my point.. :-) P3 isn't going to make this any easier, so you're going to have to go through gyrations. The complexity of merging two *very* different trees isn't going to change, and no automatic scheme is going to make it any easier. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:04:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA18496 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.statsci.com (main.statsci.com [198.145.127.110]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA18452; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from statsci.com by main.statsci.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0uSDNn-0005zxC; Fri, 7 Jun 96 19:04 PDT Message-Id: To: Nate Williams cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view References: <199606072306.RAA01251@rocky.sri.MT.net> <17605.834196067@time.cdrom.com> <199606080114.TAA01864@rocky.sri.MT.net> In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 19:14:08 -0600." <199606080114.TAA01864@rocky.sri.MT.net> Reply-to: scott@statsci.com Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 19:04:06 -0700 From: Scott Blachowicz Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams wrote: > The complexity of merging two *very* different trees isn't going to > change, and no automatic scheme is going to make it any easier. So, it sounds like goal should be to reduce the differences between the "current" tree and the "stable" tree. One question I did have - when a real release happened, why wouldn't you make -release and -stable the same tree at that instant? Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but at some instant, shouldn't -current, -stable and -release be the same thing? Or maybe the -stable tree is the "main trunk" where -release is snapshot'd off of at release time and -current is a major development branch that gets merged into the -stable tree as it is stablized? Ehhh...now that I think on it...that sounds too simplistic. Or keep a -current tree (or collection of them acting as "token generators" as in Jordan's message) that lags the real -current tree by a week or two and snapshot that into a -stable if enough "it was good" "tokens" are received over the one week period? Why does my mind wander back to college and the Heisenberg principle? :-)) Scott Blachowicz Ph: 206/283-8802x240 Mathsoft (Data Analysis Products Div) 1700 Westlake Ave N #500 scott@statsci.com Seattle, WA USA 98109 Scott.Blachowicz@seaslug.org From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:09:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA18974 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA18965; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id LAA14858; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:08:49 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:08:49 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606072207.QAA00896@rocky.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Nate Williams wrote: > Yes, but only if the developer isn't paying attention. This has > happened less times than I can count on two hands. Considering that > we're probably approaching hundreds of thousands of commits since we've > started, I'd say we're doing pretty well and that nothing needs to > change as far as that part of commit process goes. > I started supping current 2 weeks ago and during this time I saw configuration mistakes go into the tree. I can understand programming bugs, but a mistakes in configuration management that prevent successful builds are a little annoying. How many people does this affect these days? Terry proposes a set of tools to help enforce the policy of always having a buildable tree. Would this make the commit process too cumbersome? -mh From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:22:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA20506 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.16.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA20450; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA01467; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:21:58 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Parallel SUP's: STOP IT! Reply-to: phk@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 19:21:58 -0700 Message-ID: <1465.834200518@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I will kindly reiterate that we do NOT want parallel runs of SUP against freebsd.org and that we will without notice blacklist hosts engaged in such behaviour. If your connectivity is that bad, switch to CTM. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:23:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA20632 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA20551; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA02108; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:21:42 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:21:42 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606080221.UAA02108@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Michael Hancock Cc: Nate Williams , Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: References: <199606072207.QAA00896@rocky.sri.MT.net> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Terry proposes a set of tools to help enforce the policy of always having > a buildable tree. Would this make the commit process too cumbersome? Because these tools are unattainable. Saying 'it would be nice if we could guarantee that the tree was always buildable' is like saying 'it would be nice if everyone liked everyone'. It's a wonderful goal, but it's unattainable given the current resources. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:26:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA21135 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA21106; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id LAA15013; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:25:24 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:25:24 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , grog@lemis.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606072342.QAA04537@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > It takes *two hours* to check out a copy of /usr/src, not to mention > > all the time wasted in locking down the tree during commits (CVS > > crawls through the area you're committing and slaps down lock files > > everywhere, very very slowly). > > Gee, if only you had top level reader/writer locks so you could > turn off the per file locking if a global lock was present and > spend about 16,000 less lock/unlock calls. 8-). > > > Then there's the wonderful feeling when you've done a whole set of cleanups > > to /usr/src and have to do a "commit from the top" - you wait 45 minutes > > for it to crawl its way through, only to be informed at the end that > > somebody changed a file in some _completely unrelated_ section of the > > tree and now, rather than simply merging it in for you (e.g. this is NOT > > a conflict situation!) CVS aborts and says "I can't go on!". You need > > to update in the change then start your commit all over again. > > Gee, if only you had top level reader/writeer locks that were multiple > reader/single writer to serialize groups of changes over a set of 'n' > files. 8-). Maybe you should provide an example of how multiple reader/single writer locks can parrallelize a section of kernel code while keeping things consistent. The developers can then maybe extrapolate the idea to improving the CVS commit process in a very *cheap* yet effective way. Geeks hate words like (enforce|policy) when it comes to areas that affect their working style. But a cool technical idea..... -mh From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:31:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA21651 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA21617; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id LAA15033; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:30:20 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:30:20 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606080221.UAA02108@rocky.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > Terry proposes a set of tools to help enforce the policy of always having ^^^^^^ I said help not guarantee. The tools would help resolve reads while commits are being done. Multiple reader/single writer locks are a cheap effective way to do this. -mh > > a buildable tree. Would this make the commit process too cumbersome? > > Because these tools are unattainable. Saying 'it would be nice if we > could guarantee that the tree was always buildable' is like saying 'it > would be nice if everyone liked everyone'. It's a wonderful goal, but > it's unattainable given the current resources. > > > Nate > -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:34:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA22109 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA22091; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by orion.webspan.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA23366; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:33:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Watson To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , Greg Lehey , hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view) In-Reply-To: <1114.834194921@critter.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How about donating $25 every time you install or upgrade a machine > with FreeBSD ? That would still be less than half the price of any > other thing you could install, say, MS-DOS 6.22 or Windows 95... > > So, guys, if FreeBSD is so useful to you and your business, maybe you > need to think about how you can be useful to the FreeBSD project. > > Poul-Henning Damn good idea. I think your 100% right. Gimme an address and ill send money. I think the old saying put up or shut up pretty much is the bottom line here. If we want -stable to continue we will have to take up the slack or it dies. It's that simple. So lets stop arguing about it and we will either get enough support and manpower to keep -stable going or just let it die. Either way I think tempers are starting to flare now between a few people so lets find a new topic since we all know what needs to be done with stable. :) -- ===================================| Webspan Inc., ISP Division. FreeBSD 2.1.0 is available now! | Phone: 908-367-8030 ext. 126 -----------------------------------| 500 West Kennedy Blvd., Lakewood, NJ-08701 Turning PCs into Workstations | E-Mail: scanner@webspan.net http://www.freebsd.org | SysAdmin / Network Engineer / Security ===================================| Member BSDNET team! http://www.bsdnet.org From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:40:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA22988 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA22980; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA29956; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:40:10 -0700 (PDT) To: Chris Watson cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , Greg Lehey , hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 22:33:25 EDT." Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 19:40:10 -0700 Message-ID: <29951.834201610@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Damn good idea. I think your 100% right. Gimme an address and ill send > money. I think the old saying put up or shut up pretty much is the bottom > line here. If we want -stable to continue we will have to take up the Make checks payable to FreeBSD, Inc. and send them to me care of Walnut Creek CDROM, e.g.: FreeBSD, Inc. c/o Jordan Hubbard 4041 Pike Lane, suite #D Concord CA, 94520 I deposit all such checks in a company bank account where we've been waiting for enough to accrue (e.g. more than the $1100 or so we've collected thus far) that we can actually do something with it. Everybody who donates something also gets an entry in the "donors gallery" unless they specifically request otherwise (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/donors.html). Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:44:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA23396 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MediaCity.com (root@easy1.mediacity.com [205.216.172.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23387; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:44:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from brian@localhost) by MediaCity.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA19029; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:43:12 -0700 From: Brian Litzinger Message-Id: <199606080243.TAA19029@MediaCity.com> Subject: Re: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view) To: phk@FreeBSD.org (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, karl@mcs.com, grog@lemis.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <1114.834194921@critter.tfs.com> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Jun 7, 96 05:48:41 pm" Reply-To: brian@MediaCity.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <16972.834190075@time.cdrom.com>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > > >Well, then I think it's time for you ISPs to start donating more > >resources to us. Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > What I'm more than a little bit disappointed with, is the number of > quite obvious commercial entities with their relative amounts of > success and dependencies on FreeBSD that have sent an email to > -core saying, "Hi, we owe you people something, what can we do for > you in return ?" FreeBSD has long been promoted as free. It is hard for me to imagine how the word "owe" can be associated with the word "free". But then, here in the US, I've run into alot of "free" things in which you really "owe". So perhaps I am out-of-step with the modern meaning of the word free. For the benefit of the aged, like myself, perhaps you could change the name. 8-) -- Brian Litzinger Powered by FreeBSD http[s]://www.mpress.com From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:55:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA24763 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.16.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA24748; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA01528; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:55:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Chris Watson cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , Greg Lehey , hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 22:33:25 EDT." Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 19:55:12 -0700 Message-ID: <1526.834202512@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message , Chris Watson writes: >> How about donating $25 every time you install or upgrade a machine >> with FreeBSD ? That would still be less than half the price of any >> other thing you could install, say, MS-DOS 6.22 or Windows 95... >> >> So, guys, if FreeBSD is so useful to you and your business, maybe you >> need to think about how you can be useful to the FreeBSD project. >> >> Poul-Henning > >Damn good idea. I think your 100% right. Gimme an address and ill send >money. I think the old saying put up or shut up pretty much is the bottom >line here. If we want -stable to continue we will have to take up the >slack or it dies. It's that simple. So lets stop arguing about it and we >will either get enough support and manpower to keep -stable going or just >let it die. Either way I think tempers are starting to flare now between a >few people so lets find a new topic since we all know what needs to be >done with stable. :) It's all there in the handbook: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook218.html 18.2.6.1. Donating funds While the FreeBSD Project is not a 501(C3) (non-profit) corporation and hence cannot offer special tax incentives for any donations made, any such donations will be gratefully accepted on behalf of the project by FreeBSD, Inc. FreeBSD, Inc. was founded in early 1995 by Jordan K. Hubbard and David Greenman with the goal of furthering the aims of the FreeBSD Project and giving it a minimal corporate presence. Any and all funds donated (as well as any profits that may eventually be realized by FreeBSD, Inc.) will be used exclusively to further the project's goals. Please make any checks payable to FreeBSD, Inc., sent in care of the following address: FreeBSD, Inc. 246 Park St. Clyde CA, 94520 Wire transfers may also be sent directly to: Bank Of America Concord Main Office P.O. Box 37176 San Francisco CA, 94137-5176 Routing #: 121-000-358 Account #: 01411-07441 (FreeBSD, Inc.) If you do not wish to be listed in our donors section, please specify this when making your donation. Thanks! -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:57:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA25064 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25055 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA12115; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606080257.TAA12115@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: "John S. Dyson" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Jun 1996 16:06:24 PDT." <199606062306.QAA06882@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 19:57:28 -0700 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>> It does install with the sticky bit set, but I thought that modern >>> Unices ignored it as they try to keep everything in swap for as long >>> as possible. > >>The VM system totally ignores the sticky bit for executables. > >I had always suspected as much. Thanks for confirming this. (Is this >in 4.4BSD in general, or in FreeBSD, specifically?) It's only relavent to the old 4.3BSD VM system. When it got thrown out for the Mach stuff in the "Net" release, the sticky bit on executables went with it. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 19:58:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA25177 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25170; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA16218; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:58:32 -0700 (PDT) To: brian@MediaCity.com cc: phk@FreeBSD.org (Poul-Henning Kamp), karl@mcs.com, grog@lemis.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 19:43:12 PDT." <199606080243.TAA19029@MediaCity.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 19:58:31 -0700 Message-ID: <16211.834202711@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > success and dependencies on FreeBSD that have sent an email to > > -core saying, "Hi, we owe you people something, what can we do for > > you in return ?" > > FreeBSD has long been promoted as free. It is hard for me to imagine > how the word "owe" can be associated with the word "free". But then, > here in the US, I've run into alot of "free" things in which you > really "owe". So perhaps I am out-of-step with the modern meaning > of the word free. I don't think that's what phk intended to say, and if you read that paragraph of his again I think you'll see that he's paraphrasing some ficticious person saything that _they_ feel they owe something. The different is rather stark. > For the benefit of the aged, like myself, perhaps you could > change the name. 8-) Or, for the benefit of those who are poor of eyesight, like yourself, we should simply send out these mailings in larger type. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 20:01:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA25594 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from InfoWest.COM (infowest.com [204.17.177.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA25570; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agifford (zaketh.uv.com [204.17.177.95]) by InfoWest.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA13778; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:08:45 -0601 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960608030130.006e79c4@infowest.com> X-Sender: agifford@infowest.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 21:01:30 -0600 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org From: "Aaron D. Gifford" Subject: Re: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view) Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 05:48 PM 6/7/96 -0700, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >In message <16972.834190075@time.cdrom.com>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: >> >>Well, then I think it's time for you ISPs to start donating more >>resources to us. > >I would like to back this argument a little bit too. Quite frankly, >I'm proud as hell when you people brag about what you're doing with >FreeBSD. I'm proud as hell when I wear my FreeBSD T-shirt. > >I have bought more hardware of more weird sorts than anybody would >think they would ever need, and certainly more than I'd ever buy if >I didn't care about the quality of installation tools and methods >for FreeBSD and other such stuff. > >I could have started an ISP instead, I could have made money instead. >I know I have spent time to the tune of $100K on FreeBSD instead of >doing paid work. So far I have no problem with that either because, >most of it was fun, and most of the rest of it were just plainly >needed to get FreeBSD over a hurdle. > >What I'm more than a little bit disappointed with, is the number of >quite obvious commercial entities with their relative amounts of >success and dependencies on FreeBSD that have sent an email to >-core saying, "Hi, we owe you people something, what can we do for >you in return ?" > >If somebody were to be paid for doing FreeBSD work part-time, with the >understanding that "it may not be fun, that's why we pay you!" we could >get a lot of menial tasks done that simply don't get done because they're >not any fun to do in your sparetime. Things like regression testing, >documentation, upgrade procedures... > >Another alternative is to get sufficient money that one or more of the >really good FreeBSD people could actually sustain life doing nothing but >FreeBSD. > >Both of these things would help a lot, and it goes without saying that >any donation on that kind of scale would result in a higher level of >awareness for the donors problems and wishes. > >But even if you cannot afford that kind of donations, you can still >donate to us. The information for donating money is on our web-pages. > >How about donating $25 every time you install or upgrade a machine >with FreeBSD ? That would still be less than half the price of any >other thing you could install, say, MS-DOS 6.22 or Windows 95... > >So, guys, if FreeBSD is so useful to you and your business, maybe you >need to think about how you can be useful to the FreeBSD project. > >Poul-Henning > >-- >Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. >http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. >whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. >Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. > > I work for an small ISP here in Southern Utah that uses FreeBSD, and I like the idea of contributing back to FreeBSD, particularly the small donation every time one upgrades or installs FreeBSD. I do have few questions and ideas though. Questions first: If someone DID want to contribute money, how would this be done? To what organization would the money be sent? FreeBSD, Inc? Is FreeBSD Inc, a non-profit organization? Ideas: Why not add a web page or two on the www.freebsd.org site describing how to contribute money, hardware, labor, etc? The page might suggest a tiered donation scheme (perhaps something like $25, $50, $100, $200, $500, $1000, etc. donations per install or upgrade) where donors are listed on appropriate web pages according to their donation level. A $25 donor might just get a quick 1-line listing while the $1000 GOLD LEVEL donor might have the opportunity to place an icon, web link, and brief paragraph describing how they use FreeBSD. I understand that the donation scheme should probably be kept SIMPLE so that the amount of time to administer donations doesn't eat into the donation value. The advantage of a suggested donation scheme would be in prompting users (perhaps with guilt? ) to participate, as well as making administration of donations somewhat simpler. I think that recognizing donors on a web page might encourage donations as well. A plus to having a tiered donation scheme is that everyone can donate according to their ability. Gee, this is beginning to sound almost like my local PBS station's fund drive! Oh well. I was just brainstorming. Aaron out. --=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=-- Aaron D. Gifford InfoWest, 1845 W. Sunset Blvd, St. George, UT 84770 InfoWest Networking Phone: (801) 674-0165 FAX: (801) 673-9734 Visit InfoWest at: "http://www.infowest.com/" ICBM: 37.07847 N, 113.57858 W "Southern Utah's Finest Network Connection" --=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=-- From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 20:06:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA26255 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.16.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA26249; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA01569; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:06:02 -0700 (PDT) To: brian@MediaCity.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 19:43:12 PDT." <199606080243.TAA19029@MediaCity.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 20:06:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1567.834203160@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear Brian, If you have never sent one single email to us saying anything along the lines of "geeze, it would help me much if you could ..." then you can go happily on with your life and not pay anything to anybody. If you have something you want done to FreeBSD, they you may have to consider that you're asking one of us to do it in our spare time, to save your butt, very likely in some professional context. I'm not asking for the money for a new swimming pool for anybody. I'm asking for the money, so that we can get somebody to help us do the things that somebody like you, and, quite possibly you too wants to see in FreeBSD, but which falls so far from our idea of fun that it will not otherwise happen. If you think FreeBSD is not FREE because we ask for volountary donations to make it even better, then maybe we should donate to an education to you in straight thinking, because you're clearly not good at it at this time. With not too much respect, Poul-Henning Kamp >Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> What I'm more than a little bit disappointed with, is the number of >> quite obvious commercial entities with their relative amounts of >> success and dependencies on FreeBSD that have sent an email to >> -core saying, "Hi, we owe you people something, what can we do for >> you in return ?" > >FreeBSD has long been promoted as free. It is hard for me to imagine >how the word "owe" can be associated with the word "free". But then, >here in the US, I've run into alot of "free" things in which you >really "owe". So perhaps I am out-of-step with the modern meaning >of the word free. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 20:29:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA28325 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.16.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA28316; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:29:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA01689; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:29:11 -0700 (PDT) To: "Aaron D. Gifford" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 21:01:30 MDT." <2.2.32.19960608030130.006e79c4@infowest.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 20:29:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1687.834204551@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk First: we have a very wide distribution on this subject, please don't quote the entire message, and watch that CC line please ! >Questions first: If someone DID want to contribute money, how would this be >done? To what organization would the money be sent? FreeBSD, Inc? Is >FreeBSD Inc, a non-profit organization? So far we havn't pushed the fund-raising very hard, as can be seen from the fact that I had to actually grep the handbook to find the right place, and that Jordan just updated the address to match current reality. We havn't got enough money to make it worth the effort to make it a tax exempt org of any kind, and likewise there are no or few procedures in place to control our usage of the money. Basically we say, "trust us". (The fact that most of you run code we write on your computers indicates to me that you already trust us quite a lot, thanks! :-) Until the cash-flow warrants such procedures we'd rather spend our time hacking code if you understand me, so I hope this rather loose arrangement is OK with our donors. I don't think there is anything preventing us from putting the actual accounts up on the web, but I don't even think we have used any money yet, all we have is about USD1000 or so I think, not really enough for the stuff we want to do. Likewise if a major donation is ear-marked I'm sure we'll be able to account for it's proper use to the donor. FreeBSD Inc is a corporation registered by a number of members of the FreeBSD core-team, and we use that as the official framework for the money stuff at this time. If at some time there is a business case for a non-profit org, we will probably make one, but at this time the paperwork would be too prohibitive. If there are donors out there in the world who think that sending money to U.S.A is a terrible thing or just too much hazzle, contact a core-member in your end of the world, we can probably arrange something. Thanks for the ideas! -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 21:06:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA02022 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA02014; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA12386; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606080406.VAA12386@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Nate Williams cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 09:29:32 MDT." <199606071529.JAA29241@rocky.sri.MT.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 21:06:31 -0700 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >This kind of work is necessary for -stable to exist, and apparently at >least Jordan and David are completely unwillingly to do this. Do any of >the developers (and Peter the CVS-meister) have anything to say? I've obviously been willing since I've been doing this for over a year now. The problem is that I have no time to work on new development myself. New development is the "fun" part of FreeBSD. I haven't had any FreeBSD "fun" for more than a year now, and I'm quickly approaching the burnout point (actually, I've already burnt out; I'm currently forcing myself to continue in this role only because I feel obligated to get the release out). This is a difficult problem for me. I've intentionally placed myself in- between the release tree (which is currently -stable) and -current in an attempt to improve the quality of FreeBSD releases. If I decide not to do this any longer, then I'm affraid that the quality of the released code will go into the toilet. We need a new model. One that keeps the quality high and one that doesn't prevent me from doing new development. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 21:08:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA02290 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA02123; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA02519; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:07:40 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:07:40 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606080407.WAA02519@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Michael Hancock Cc: Nate Williams , Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: References: <199606080221.UAA02108@rocky.sri.MT.net> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Terry proposes a set of tools to help enforce the policy of always having > ^^^^^^ > > I said help not guarantee. The tools would help resolve reads while > commits are being done. Multiple reader/single writer locks are a cheap > effective way to do this. They wouldn't enforce or even help the policy. Multiple reader/single writer locks don't solve any significant problem we've faced. Why do something that limits the ability of developers to commit changes when the problem the fix happens .001% of the time? It's like making a loop that gets called once at initialization time 50% faster while you leave the sorting algorithm which takes up 95% of CPU time alone. It's doesn't buy you anything but a warm fuzzy feeling. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 21:17:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA03341 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA03330; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA05233; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:11:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606080411.VAA05233@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:11:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Jun 8, 96 11:30:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Terry proposes a set of tools to help enforce the policy of always having > ^^^^^^ > > > a buildable tree. Would this make the commit process too cumbersome? > > > > Because these tools are unattainable. Saying 'it would be nice if we > > could guarantee that the tree was always buildable' is like saying 'it > > would be nice if everyone liked everyone'. It's a wonderful goal, but > > it's unattainable given the current resources. > > I said help not guarantee. The tools would help resolve reads while > commits are being done. Multiple reader/single writer locks are a cheap > effective way to do this. Exactly. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 21:21:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA03904 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA03899; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id VAA02119 ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:21:54 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA02553; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:19:19 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:19:19 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606080419.WAA02553@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: davidg@Root.COM Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606080406.VAA12386@Root.COM> References: <199606071529.JAA29241@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199606080406.VAA12386@Root.COM> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We need a new model. One that keeps the quality high and one > that doesn't prevent me from doing new development. Do you have any suggestions? Would creating a new 'stable' tree today be even remotely acceptable? Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 21:46:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA06435 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA06430; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA05318; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:40:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606080440.VAA05318@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:40:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, grog@lemis.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Jun 8, 96 11:25:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Gee, if only you had top level reader/writeer locks that were multiple > > reader/single writer to serialize groups of changes over a set of 'n' > > files. 8-). > > Maybe you should provide an example of how multiple reader/single writer > locks can parrallelize a section of kernel code while keeping things > consistent. The developers can then maybe extrapolate the idea to > improving the CVS commit process in a very *cheap* yet effective way. > > Geeks hate words like (enforce|policy) when it comes to areas that affect > their working style. But a cool technical idea..... I think I did provide an example of this -- I don't rememebr if it was on the SMP list or on -hackers, now, though. It had to do with setting up hierarchical lock management for per processor memory pools that are filled from a system pool, or drained to the system pool when they hit a high "pages free" watermark. For a non-SMP ecample, you could visualize reeentering the FS on multiple searches of the same directory. If I set a reader lock on a block, it would prevent block compaction, but only in that block, so that creates would not change the block offset while the block is being read. For a block in which a create/delete were taking place, a writer lock would be asserted, which would block reading until the write had completed. This would allow any number of readers to enter a block, as long as there was no writer, but only one writer to enter the block (when there were no readers -- the "IW" (Intention to Write lock) assertion is made on the block, and subsequent readers are prevented from entering, --but may assert an "IR" -- (Intention to Read lock) to prevent multiple writers from starving the readers. The "IW" is converted to a "W" when all of the readers have "drained" out of the locked segment. After the write completes, the "W" is deasserted, and the "R" blocks can be serviced. When no more "IR"'s remain to be converted to "R" (since the conversion is global and simultaneous for all IR's, since they are not exclusive), then any outstanding IW assertions are allowed to complete, and again, any "W" is blocked pending reader drain. For a CVS implementation, it would be relatively easy to exclusively lock the "want lock" list" and process it linearly in the "unlock" process, with a one second (or 5 second) file modification "poll" by all waiters. Perhaps, ideally, you would want something like: [ ... ] # # cvs_lock_read_wait - shell function to wait for read lock # cvs_lock_read_wait() { while true do cvs lock read if test "$?" = "0" then echo "reader lock acquired" exit 0 fi echo "waiting..." sleep 5 done } # # cvs_help - extended help after real help, or args + -H # cvs_help() { case "$1x" in x) $REALCVS -H ; ST=$? echo " lock Lock command"; exit $ST;; lock) echo "Usage: cvs lock [read | write ]"; exit 1;; unlock) echo "Usage: cvs unlock"; exit 1;; *) $REALCVS -H $*; ST=$?; exit $ST;; else $REALCVS $* fi } # # cvs_default - all other (non-lock, non-help) commands # cvs_default() { $(REALCVS) $* } [ ... ] This all being part of the "cvs" shell script that replaces the real cvs program, which has been renamed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 22:05:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA07595 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA07587; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA05346; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:58:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606080458.VAA05346@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:58:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606080406.VAA12386@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Jun 7, 96 09:06:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >This kind of work is necessary for -stable to exist, and apparently at > >least Jordan and David are completely unwillingly to do this. Do any of > >the developers (and Peter the CVS-meister) have anything to say? > > I've obviously been willing since I've been doing this for over a year now. > The problem is that I have no time to work on new development myself. New > development is the "fun" part of FreeBSD. I haven't had any FreeBSD "fun" for > more than a year now, and I'm quickly approaching the burnout point (actually, > I've already burnt out; I'm currently forcing myself to continue in this role > only because I feel obligated to get the release out). > This is a difficult problem for me. I've intentionally placed myself in- > between the release tree (which is currently -stable) and -current in an > attempt to improve the quality of FreeBSD releases. If I decide not to do this > any longer, then I'm affraid that the quality of the released code will go > into the toilet. We need a new model. One that keeps the quality high and one > that doesn't prevent me from doing new development. The "grunt work" of synchronization needs to be automated, as much as possible, to move the load off of David. I've been where he is now (I still am, in some respects, with some of my unintegrated code), and it is not a happy place to be. I'm certainly not saying that moving -current to being closer to the goals of -stable by enforcing buildability is the *only* way, but it is most certainly *a* way. The build/token process is *another* way. I think the token process is only necessary if you can't guarantee a buildable tree at checkout (which is where I'd like to see the problem attacked). The token process also only guarantess some *eventual* success, and can't be seperately tagged, apart from checkout time, which makes it painful to build world. I think this is too intermittent to leave the -stable repository mirror of a snapshot of the -current repositopry working. An alternative (which isn't reasonable at this time) would be to provide a mechanism for CVS tree migration based on delta-tags, so that deltas up to the tag date that don't exist in the -stable tree are imported to the -stable tree based on a successful build. This grants some control over "when to move up stable" seperate from "every time a build succeeds", in a nicely automated way. I like this last (though unreasonable) way because if I allow conflict resoloution at each stage of the integration process for the delta segments, I've just bought myself the ability to maintain multiple source bases and integrate them, if only by date-cutting myself copies of the CVS tree for each one of the sub-projects I want to work on, and I can merge them into a combined project (to work on my overpass, I was talking about before). I'd still be missing the pice that lets me adjust the "merge-from" tree to resolve the conflict instead of the "merge-to", but it's a hell of a lot closer to ideal to be able to insert one delta at a time from one CVS tree (-current) into another (-stable) to incrementally update it. The missing piece is a global change log (from the writer unlock logs, presumably) to insert deltas as change span sets, so that I get all of the deltas for one self-consistent set of changes in one update/merge. I haven't spent any real time looking at CVS to see what it would take to stuff non-merge deltas in, one at a time, from another (later) tree to get a -stable tree, let alone looked at the issues of conflict resoloution for multiple tree merges. Clearly, a first step would be to tag the tree at the replication point so that local changes could be distinguished from conccurent changes in the "real" tree... from there, it would take a bit of CVS hacking to work out. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 22:31:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA10111 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA10105; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA05423; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:25:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606080525.WAA05423@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:25:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: michaelh@cet.co.jp, nate@sri.MT.net, terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606080407.WAA02519@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jun 7, 96 10:07:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Terry proposes a set of tools to help enforce the policy of always having > > ^^^^^^ > > I said help not guarantee. The tools would help resolve reads while > > commits are being done. Multiple reader/single writer locks are a cheap > > effective way to do this. > > They wouldn't enforce or even help the policy. Multiple reader/single > writer locks don't solve any significant problem we've faced. Why do > something that limits the ability of developers to commit changes when > the problem the fix happens .001% of the time? > > It's like making a loop that gets called once at initialization time 50% > faster while you leave the sorting algorithm which takes up 95% of CPU > time alone. It's doesn't buy you anything but a warm fuzzy feeling. This is *not* an issue of "optimizing the boot code". This *is* an issue of removing the potential for developer checkin conflict, so that the only margin for error is that of the developer who disobeys protocol. It also *cleary* identifies the violator, and avoids needless rounds of finger-pointing, investigation, damage-control, and repair. Whoever gets the write lock before you, it's *your* responsibility to make sure *your* changes don't conflict with *his/her* changes when you get the lock. I also believe you are neglecting the fact that the CVS repository is broken up into multiple collections, and that the lock is not global to the system, it's global to the collection. This is far less likely to cause "inter-developer conflicts for write lock acquisition" than if it were all in one collection. The majority use of the tree is going to be of type "reader", not of type "writer". The programs that deal with CVS tree mirroring for the SUP and CTM servers, and local checkouts, will be the majority usage. You don't need the writer lock uless you are writing, and another developer doesn't need the writer lock unless they are committing code in the same are (in which case, it's a damn good thing you are not both going at it at once). The net results are that the claim "merge cascade failure" is no longer a valid excude for an unbuildable tree. If Jim-Bob makes the tree unbuildable, it's obvious that Jim-Bob is a protocol violator. If he does this a lot, then there should probably be a policy enforcement decision by "the grantors of tree access" to prevent future offenses. The intended effect is a buildable tree and identifiable culprits in the case of a non-buildable tree. If Jim-Bob and John-Boy make changes in the same area simultaneously, and the tree does not build, there is currently no way to assign blame. Because of this, people play "fast and loose" with the tree, hoping that it will be too dificult to track the transgressor. If Jim-Bob has to assert that John-Boy can't write the tree for him to be able to, he will think twice before writing to the tree. Hopefully, part of this "think" will include building his checked-out portion of the tree before checking it in, which is what the policy says he should do anyway. What you seem to be claiming as "limiting the ability of the developer to commit changes", is really "limiting the ability of the developer to commit changes in violation of protocol". To test your "conflict inconvenience" theory, I suggest you implement reader/writer locks with no teeth, that output "CONFLICT WITH LOCK BY USER XXX", with a time stamp, to a log. Also "in" and "out" times. Then we can examine the conflicts that arise in real usage, and determine: 1) How often the conflict is a writer wanting to write when a reader was actively reading (meaning the writer was allowed by the lack of teeth,and the reader's data has been potentially corrupted into unbuildability). 2) How often the reader whose data was potentially trashed was SUP or CTM (meaning we greatly multiplied the problem in #1). 3) How often a reader came in while a write was active (meaning the reader has made a snapshot of a potentially inconsistent tree that was avoidably corrupt by nature of allowing readers while there are writers active). 4) How often the reader whose data was potentially trashed was SUP or CTM (meaning we greatly multiplied the problem in #3). 5) How often one writer came in while another writer was in, and how many of those writes afftected header files that the affected the others work, or actual sorce files were potentially conflicted, by file. 6) Using "in" and "out", how often and whay kind of delays occurred as a result of the locks. 7) Count of total delay (delay for readers is negative, while delay for writers is positive, because of the nature of writer corruption of reader data). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 22:35:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA10645 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA10636; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA10487; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:33:49 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: davidg@Root.COM, nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 21:58:35 PDT." <199606080458.VAA05346@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 22:33:49 -0700 Message-ID: <10485.834212029@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think the token process is only necessary if you can't guarantee a > buildable tree at checkout (which is where I'd like to see the > problem attacked). The token process also only guarantess some But it probably won't be, so let's try to be realistic. You always want to rebuild the foundation and then go away in a huff when everyone insists on building on top of the old one.. :-) I don't think it's practical to contemplate the introduction of any system that doesn't sit easily on top of existing tools. Not at this time. The tokens aren't elegant, but they'll *work* and that's more than we have now! > *eventual* success, and can't be seperately tagged, apart from > checkout time, which makes it painful to build world. I think > this is too intermittent to leave the -stable repository mirror > of a snapshot of the -current repositopry working. I don't quite understand this argument. You start from success, e.g. a good tree. It stays a good tree until one day the token counter decides that what it's got today is _another_ success story and it creates the CTM deltas/does a supscan/whatever. You now get these changes, do another make world and tada! It works and continues to work until the next clean transition. What's so painful about that? Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 22:36:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA10849 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA10818; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA02830; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:35:19 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:35:19 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606080535.XAA02830@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), michaelh@cet.co.jp, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606080525.WAA05423@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199606080407.WAA02519@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199606080525.WAA05423@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It's like making a loop that gets called once at initialization time 50% > > faster while you leave the sorting algorithm which takes up 95% of CPU > > time alone. It's doesn't buy you anything but a warm fuzzy feeling. > > This is *not* an issue of "optimizing the boot code". > > This *is* an issue of removing the potential for developer checkin > conflict, so that the only margin for error is that of the developer > who disobeys protocol. But we don't have a problem with checkin conflict. It's simply a non-problem. If it ain't broke, don't spend alot of time fixing it. How many times do I have to say this? > The net results are that the claim "merge cascade failure" is no > longer a valid excude for an unbuildable tree. If Jim-Bob makes > the tree unbuildable, it's obvious that Jim-Bob is a protocol > violator. If he does this a lot, then there should probably be > a policy enforcement decision by "the grantors of tree access" > to prevent future offenses. It's obvious now who breaks the tree. We don't need CVS to tell us that. > The intended effect is a buildable tree and identifiable culprits > in the case of a non-buildable tree. Since it won't help the former and the latter is already a known, what's the point? Jim-Bob and John-Boy *don't* make changes to the tree simulateously. I suppose if we had another couple hundred committers we might have this problem, but we don't. CVS == Concurent Versions System It allows concurrent access to the tree my multiple-writers *BY DESIGN*. It's NOT BROKEN anywhere except in your mind. It *WON'T* fix any problems that are of any significance in the FreeBSD build tree. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 22:40:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA11254 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA11249; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA12681; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606080540.WAA12681@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 22:19:19 MDT." <199606080419.WAA02553@rocky.sri.MT.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 22:40:28 -0700 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> We need a new model. One that keeps the quality high and one >> that doesn't prevent me from doing new development. > >Do you have any suggestions? Would creating a new 'stable' tree today >be even remotely acceptable? I think that's an interesting idea, but lets allow the issue to get a fair airing (at least a week or two) before taking any steps in this direction. We really need to kill this thread: I had 800 emails in my inbox today, and this is about twice the usual amount. I can't deal with this much email; I've been sitting here for the past 5 hours reading it all and I'm getting really sick of it. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 23:10:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13887 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA13882; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA05574; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:03:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606080603.XAA05574@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:03:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@sri.MT.net, michaelh@cet.co.jp, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606080535.XAA02830@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jun 7, 96 11:35:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > It's like making a loop that gets called once at initialization time 50% > > > faster while you leave the sorting algorithm which takes up 95% of CPU > > > time alone. It's doesn't buy you anything but a warm fuzzy feeling. > > > > This is *not* an issue of "optimizing the boot code". > > > > This *is* an issue of removing the potential for developer checkin > > conflict, so that the only margin for error is that of the developer > > who disobeys protocol. > > But we don't have a problem with checkin conflict. It's simply a > non-problem. If it ain't broke, don't spend alot of time fixing it. > > How many times do I have to say this? Until -current builds with no errors that can't be traced to a policy violation (and a specific violator) for a period of one month. > > The net results are that the claim "merge cascade failure" is no > > longer a valid excude for an unbuildable tree. If Jim-Bob makes > > the tree unbuildable, it's obvious that Jim-Bob is a protocol > > violator. If he does this a lot, then there should probably be > > a policy enforcement decision by "the grantors of tree access" > > to prevent future offenses. > > It's obvious now who breaks the tree. We don't need CVS to tell us > that. If "committer #1" checks in changes to modules A, B, C, and Q, and "committer #2" cheks in changes to modules X, Y, Z, and Q, and there is a cumulative conflict, who is at fault if their access was not serialized? Answer: the tools. > > The intended effect is a buildable tree and identifiable culprits > > in the case of a non-buildable tree. > > Since it won't help the former and the latter is already a known, what's > the point? You are wrong that it will not help the former. The latter is largley irrelevant as anything byt a disincentive to violate protocol, something your argument "former" implicitly assumes as one of its axioms. I will not buy your axiom, even if you phrase it this way. It is a bogus axiom. > Jim-Bob and John-Boy *don't* make changes to the tree simulateously. I > suppose if we had another couple hundred committers we might have this > problem, but we don't. > > CVS == Concurent Versions System > > It allows concurrent access to the tree my multiple-writers *BY DESIGN*. > > It's NOT BROKEN anywhere except in your mind. It *WON'T* fix any > problems that are of any significance in the FreeBSD build tree. It fixed them for the NetWare for UNIX source tree. This is historical fact. Are you arguing that history is not applicable to the current situation? What about the proposed test (which you deleted from your reply)? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 7 23:22:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA15219 for current-outgoing; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA15175; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606080622.XAA15175@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Terry Lambert cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), michaelh@cet.co.jp, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 23:03:59 PDT." <199606080603.XAA05574@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 23:22:48 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> But we don't have a problem with checkin conflict. It's simply a >> non-problem. If it ain't broke, don't spend alot of time fixing it. >> >> How many times do I have to say this? > >Until -current builds with no errors that can't be traced to a policy >violation (and a specific violator) for a period of one month. Policy violoations != concurrent checkin conflicts. >If "committer #1" checks in changes to modules A, B, C, and Q, >and "committer #2" cheks in changes to modules X, Y, Z, and Q, >and there is a cumulative conflict, who is at fault if their >access was not serialized? > >Answer: the tools. This just doesn't happen in this project. The problem we have to deal with is maintaining a branch that has diverged to such an extent from the main line as to be difficult to maintain. Lets stay focused on the problem we face now instead of a problem we may never face. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 00:19:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA22741 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from melb.werple.net.au (melb.werple.net.au [203.9.190.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA22721 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cimaxp1.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by melb.werple.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3/2) with UUCP id QAA00379 for mira!freebsd.org!FreeBSD-current; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:19:04 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199606080619.QAA00379@melb.werple.net.au> Received: by cimaxp1.cimlogic.com.au; (5.65/1.1.8.2/10Sep95-0953AM) id AA32505; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:18:51 +1000 From: John Birrell Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: Root.COM!davidg@melb.werple.net.au Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:18:51 +1000 (EST) Cc: sri.MT.net!nate@melb.werple.net.au, time.cdrom.com!jkh@melb.werple.net.au, freebsd.org!hackers@melb.werple.net.au, freebsd.org!freebsd-stable@melb.werple.net.au, freebsd.org!FreeBSD-current@melb.werple.net.au In-Reply-To: <199606080406.VAA12386@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Jun 7, 96 09:06:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've obviously been willing since I've been doing this for over a year now. > The problem is that I have no time to work on new development myself. New > development is the "fun" part of FreeBSD. I haven't had any FreeBSD "fun" for > more than a year now, and I'm quickly approaching the burnout point (actually, > I've already burnt out; I'm currently forcing myself to continue in this role > only because I feel obligated to get the release out). ... then -stable *should* go. Those people who think they need -stable, will just have to put up with the releases. And if that's not sufficient, then they can contribute the resources to put out minor releases (of patches?) between the major ones. I think it is unreasonable for people to expect new functionality (like the VM changes, for instance) to be provided by -stable at the expense of -current development and the next release. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > -- John Birrell CIMlogic Pty Ltd jb@cimlogic.com.au 119 Cecil Street Ph +61 3 9690 6900 South Melbourne Vic 3205 Fax +61 3 9690 6650 Australia Mob +61 18 353 137 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 00:45:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA27597 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA27585 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA02952; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:44:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Jake Hamby cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Useful sysinstall patch. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Jun 1996 00:04:44 PDT." Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 00:44:53 -0700 Message-ID: <2950.834219893@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyway, as necessity is the mother of invention, here is a patch which > prompts you to enter the partition type when you create a partition. OK, modulo a few small changes, it's in! Hey, speaking of useful things, whatever happened to that "FreeBSD user counter" you were working on? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 01:18:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA05026 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA05012; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:18:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199606080818.BAA05012@freefall.freebsd.org> To: wollman Subject: As of 960608, routed now complains bitterly.. Cc: current Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Messages of the form: Jun 8 01:10:39 time routed[57]: rnh_addaddr() failed for 204.216.27.0 mask=0xfffffff0 Jun 8 01:11:09 time routed[57]: rnh_addaddr() failed for 204.216.27.0 mask=0xfffffff0 Spew where no messages spewed in former times. Just FYI.. jkh@time-> netstat -rn Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 204.216.27.228 UGSc 17 4 de0 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 1 285 lo0 204.216.27.224/28 link#1 UC 0 0 204.216.27.226 127.0.0.1 UGHS 3 56 lo0 204.216.27.228 0:0:c0:13:92:72 UHLW 17 557 de0 215 224/4 link#1 UCS 0 0 224.0.0.9 link#1 UHLW 1 2 Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 01:25:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA07149 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA07088; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA13112; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:25:15 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199606080825.BAA13112@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606080540.WAA12681@Root.COM> from David Greenman at "Jun 7, 96 10:40:28 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> We need a new model. One that keeps the quality high and one > >> that doesn't prevent me from doing new development. > > > >Do you have any suggestions? Would creating a new 'stable' tree today > >be even remotely acceptable? > > I think that's an interesting idea, but lets allow the issue to get a fair > airing (at least a week or two) before taking any steps in this direction. I have heard some mistatments, and incorrect assumptions about what -stable was/is, when it was created, and how it was _suppose_ to work. The above ``idea'' posted by Nate, is infact the _closest_ thing that has been said to what I had intended to occur when I set this up some 13 months ago. Here is a more accurate history, from the horses mouse so to speak since it was I who proposed this whole thing, and it was I how did the CVS work to create them. a) I merged RELENG_2_0_5 (a branch) into the HEAD, then pulled the RELENG_2_1_0 branch out so that work could begin on the next CDROM release at 2.1, which was suppose to take a month or so to do, it dragged, but did get done with a fairly small delta set (do a cvs rdiff -rRELENG_2_1_0_BP -rRELENG_2_1_0_RELEASE to see it). Mean while developement work was to (and has) continue on the HEAD branch. b) The RELENG_2_1_0 branch was to continue life as a _maintance_ / _bugfix_ branch known as -stable to support those users out there who needed this. It was _NEVER_ meant to last longer than 4 months (remember, back then everyone still wanted to see 2 to 4 releases a year.) It was _never_ meant to have a _SECOND_ full blown release rolled out of it, unless it was down within the 3 to 4 month window. c) It was the intention that some 3 months after 2.1 rolled out the door that the release engineering team for 2.2 _should_ be keeping an eye on HEAD to decide _when_ to pop down the RELENG_2_2_0_BP point tag, and start the RELENG_2_2_0 branch. [Never happened, and probably should have been what happened when Jordan attempted to do the MEGA merge of HEAD into RELENG_2_1_0.] d) After the release team had played with this new RELENG_2_2_0 branch for a week or so getting into a buildable state it would be rolled out in alpha form to start the alpha/beta/release testing. e) Once RELENG_2_2_0 was actually released (ie, RELENG_2_2_0_RELEASE had be applied as a tag) it would become the -stable bits. A flaw in my logic was that I called the mailing lists -stable, and the sup collections, etc that as well. I should have called it all branch-2.1, as now there is no easy way, except to have a ``flag day'', to replace the -stable sup/ctm collections on Freefall. > We really need to kill this thread: I had 800 emails in my inbox today, and > this is about twice the usual amount. I can't deal with this much email; I've > been sitting here for the past 5 hours reading it all and I'm getting really > sick of it. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 01:49:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA13815 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA13756; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id WAA09300; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:48:32 -1000 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:48:32 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199606080848.WAA09300@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "Re: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view)" (Jun 7, 7:40pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view) Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } > Damn good idea. I think your 100% right. Gimme an address and ill send } > money. I think the old saying put up or shut up pretty much is the bottom } > line here. If we want -stable to continue we will have to take up the } } Make checks payable to FreeBSD, Inc. [...] } It would be cool if someone could add a `Contributor' message to the FreeBSD t-shirt and make it available to folks that donate, say $100 or more. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 02:27:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA25227 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 02:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA25087; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 02:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA27176; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 12:33:53 +0300 Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 12:33:52 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Nate Williams , FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Stable Users , FreeBSD current users Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <16852.834188423@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > doing a *ton* of work in both -stable and -current. However, it's a > > *LOT* of work. However, I don't think this has anything to do with CVS, > > but has to do with the diverging of the trees. P3 may make it easier to > > do as far as resources, but the actual work of 'merging' in changes to > > both won't be any easier. Building the patches is the hard work IMHO, > > I think you're forgetting the problem with cvs where: > > 1. You make a change in -release. > 2. You merge it into -stable. > 3. You make another change in -release. Sorry if I am misunderstanding something, but shouldn't the change have been made in -stable and not in -release? Sander > 4. You go to do another merge into -stable and wind up with a whole *mess* > of conflicts. `cvs update -j' is NOT a decent merge tool! > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 02:46:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA01308 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 02:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA01183; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 02:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA27336; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 12:53:38 +0300 Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 12:53:38 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , Greg Lehey , hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <16972.834190075@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I don't have a full-time engineer at present to devote to this, nor can > > I afford the single mistake that destroys our environment. I can put > > someone on this with a 4-10 hour per week commitment, but that's about it. > > .. > > Somehow, the -STABLE intent must remain. I don't care *how* it is > > accomplished, but it has to be accomplished. An example of the problems is > > Well, then I think it's time for you ISPs to start donating more > resources to us. > > It's a pretty simple equation which would be solved in the commercial > world by us charging you more money. Since we're not in the > commercial world, then it stands to reason that if you or anyone else > wants feature or service "X", which we claim is beyond our resources, > then it's your task to ensure that we have the resources we need. > > Knowing your position of relative wealth (far more than any of ours), > why not hire a part-timer and "give" him to us? He can work with the > other full or part time programmers the other ISPs (or other > commercial interests) hire to make -stable everything you want it to > be. Everybody gets what they want then - we stop having our very > limited resources bifurcated, you get your -stable branch. > > Anyway, let's Just Do It or stop pounding shoes on the table talking > about how "-stable MUST NOT DIE!" and it's up to the current > developers to pull a rabbit out of their hats and somehow make it all > work. I'd be happy to talk to Karl (or anyone else) about co-managing > whatever human resources they can donate to the project. > > I should also note here that any other proposals which involve me or > anyone closely involved in -current development doing the work will be > politely deleted - I think I've already made my position more than > clear and I will not be budged on it. It's just too much work, > members of the core team have complained to me in private that -stable > was sucking the life force out of the project (or refused to > participate in -stable at all) and they wished we'd stop, this is not > a problem that suddenly appeared - it's been 15 months in the making > and now we need some additional man power if we're going to deal with > it in any more permanant fashion. > > As I said, I'd be more than happy to talk with the "vested interest" > folks in seeing how they personally might not take more responsibility > for the -stable service they've come to appreciate. Everyone always > talks about how they'd like to give something back, well, here's a > golden opportunity! Give me about 2 - 3 part-time employees and I'll > give you back a -stable that will make all of us very happy. > A great idea! But why does this all openly come out only now? At least part of the solution might be just saying - maintainers and mergerers for stable needed! Would more volunteer based development of -stable be realy that hard? 1) If you want to get a given feature in -current, what do you do? You ask if somebody is working on it, join in if somebody is and do it yourself if it isn't. 2) Couldn't maintaining of stable look like: a) The core team suggest that it would be nice if somebody would bring feature x over to -stable. b) Person y responds - I'll look into that (and most probably some more persons join him) c) While tracking -stable, y ports featrure x over to stable and make sure it does not affect it's stability d) when ready, he makes the diffs available and people test them out (NB! it is not commite yet) e) Concensus says - it's stable. Now is the point the thing shall be (if it hasn't already) be taken into close consideration by a core-team member, who will in some time commit it. 3) If enough changes are not brought over quickly enough, the core-team takes -current from some point of time, renames it to -semi-stable and put's it in for the stablity testing for being renamed to -stable Any big troubles with that scheme? (Yes, I really love -stable) Sander > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 02:50:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA02882 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 02:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA02782; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 02:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA27569 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Sat, 8 Jun 1996 12:47:03 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sat, 8 Jun 96 12:47:03 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA01242; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:29:56 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199606080929.NAA01242@astral.msk.su> Subject: Re: As of 960608, routed now complains bitterly.. To: jkh@freefall.freebsd.org (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:29:55 +0400 (MSD) Cc: wollman@freefall.freebsd.org, current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606080818.BAA05012@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jun 8, 96 01:18:16 am" From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Spew where no messages spewed in former times. Just FYI.. Moreover, I got very often on ppp link now: Jun 5 23:10:54 astral routed[52]: setsockopt(IP_DROP_MEMBERSHIP RIP): Can't assign requested address Jun 5 23:10:54 astral routed[52]: IP_DROP_MEMBERSHIP ALLHOSTS: Can't assign requested address Jun 5 23:13:33 astral routed[52]: IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP ALLHOSTS: Address already in use Jun 5 23:13:33 astral routed[52]: setsockopt(IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP RIP): Address already in use -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 04:18:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA26017 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 04:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA26002 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 04:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uSM2E-000QZwC; Sat, 8 Jun 96 13:18 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA00733; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:04:19 +0200 Message-Id: <199606081104.NAA00733@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:04:19 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD current users) In-Reply-To: <199606070300.WAA01131@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jun 6, 96 10:00:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John S. Dyson writes: > >>> JH> Another possibility is a bad emacs binary. Especially since >>> JH> as part of the compilation process, emacs runs itself, loads >>> JH> in a bunch of LISP, then pukes itself out as a new executable. >>> JH> I shudder to think what could happen if a buggy kernel or bad >>> JH> SIMM decided to rear its head at that point. >>> >>> I have the same problems. >> >> I have had other programs die, as well Emacs:- >> >> Jun 4 16:05:00 jraynard /kernel: pid 10265 (atrun), uid 0: exited on signal 10 >> Jun 6 23:16:05 jraynard /kernel: pid 148 (innd), uid 8: exited on signal 10 To get back into the fray: since I wanted to do an emacs 19.31 anyway, I built it, and had the same effects as before. Like others, I am pretty sure that this isn't a bad binary. > No guarantees, but I found a *major* omission in pmap.c. Replace the > pmap_object_init_pt routine in pmap.c with the following, and see how > things go: Aaaaaahhhh. Now it works. Well, at any rate it doesn't die any more. I rebooted the system twice and started emacs, and it didn't die. That's been the first time for about 2 weeks. Looks like this was my problem, anyway. Greg From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 04:31:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA29248 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 04:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NS.Contrib.Com (NS.Contrib.Com [194.77.12.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA29125; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 04:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from src@localhost) by NS.Contrib.Com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA27899; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:30:01 +0200 Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:30:01 +0200 From: Heiko Blume Message-Id: <199606081130.NAA27899@NS.Contrib.Com> To: terry@lambert.org CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, grog@lemis.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199606072342.QAA04537@phaeton.artisoft.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:42:54 -0700 (MST)) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk helloo i'd like to mention that we have implemented CVS for a big software development effort with more than 100 developers at several sites and VERY many lines of code. it works very well. however, things had to planned very carefully. my partner sascha@contrib.com has done this, so maybe the ones of you working with CVS the most should poke him a little. rgds hb From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 08:06:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA27702 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 08:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA27693 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 08:06:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kimc@localhost) by moonpie.w8hd.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA04713; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:06:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: current@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk subscribe From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 08:23:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA01253 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 08:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01222; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 08:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id AAA18598; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 00:23:01 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 00:23:01 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606080407.WAA02519@rocky.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > Terry proposes a set of tools to help enforce the policy of always having > > ^^^^^^ > > > > I said help not guarantee. The tools would help resolve reads while > > commits are being done. Multiple reader/single writer locks are a cheap > > effective way to do this. > > They wouldn't enforce or even help the policy. Multiple reader/single > writer locks don't solve any significant problem we've faced. Why do > something that limits the ability of developers to commit changes when > the problem the fix happens .001% of the time? So what's the commit protocol now, e-mail? This sounds more limiting on a developer's schedule no matter how many committers there are. I assume there are more than two and they would probably rather focus on writing code than coordinating commits manually. > It's like making a loop that gets called once at initialization time 50% > faster while you leave the sorting algorithm which takes up 95% of CPU > time alone. It's doesn't buy you anything but a warm fuzzy feeling. I'm not convinced this analogy holds. With all the problems I saw over the last 2 weeks it sure seemed like more than a slip of commit discipline. -mike hancock From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 08:29:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA02635 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 08:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA02606 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 08:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05667; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 10:29:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu: jfieber owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 10:29:19 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu To: "Marc G. Fournier" cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make on /usr/src/share In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > Are these "warnings" normal? I know nothing about sgml... Its groff complaining. These are not tragic errors and the source of the warnings will probably be fixed relatively soon. Every time the handbook gets changed, a cron job regenerates it for the web pages so I get this warning in my mailbox every couple days as a reminder. :-> > ===> doc/handbook > sgmlfmt -f ascii /usr/src/share/doc/handbook/handbook.sgml > :95: warning: `SN' not defined > :618: warning: can't break line > :24075: warning: space required between `LP' and argument > :30745: warning: `LH' not defined > :30745: warning: `RH' not defined -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 11:01:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA22154 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:01:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA22145 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ginger.eng.umd.edu (ginger.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.204]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA24134 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by ginger.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA01357; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:01:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@ginger.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD current Subject: Unable to get kernel to boot Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I couldn't make up my mind if this belonged in -current or -questions, so I'm really sorry if I've picked wrong, but here goes. I suddenly can't get my kernel to boot. During boot, I _think_ during probing (it goes by so quickly on my new machine!) I get this line: NCR0: SCSI phase error fixup: CCB already dequeued (some number) Then during the rest of boot, I think somewhere in multiuser startup, I get a long panic message. I noticed that LINT has the line "device ncr0" while GENERIC has "controller ncr0", but since I've tried it both ways, I don't think that's the problem. I can get booted from the kernel.GENERIC from teh previous snap, so I guess it's likely not a hardware problem. I have ddb compiled in, and I spent a long time hand copying data, so I will reproduce it here. My disk setup is 1 ncr controller, scsi id0= 200 meg SUN (Conner) drive, scsi id1=2.1GB DEC (Quantum) drive with / and /usr on it, scsi id2=2.1GB DEC(Quantum) with /usr2 on it. Both the DEC drives also have 48 megs dedicated to sd[12]b for swap (total 96M). Here's what I copied, with my kernel config bringing up the rear: spec_getpages: I/O read error vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID 32 failure pid 32 (hostname), uid 0: exited on signal 11 uid 0 on /: out of inodes /: create/symlink failed, no inodes free Memory fault Spec_getpages: I/O read error vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID 37 failure Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0xf4ec2000 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf0107977 stack pointer = 0x10:0xefbffde4 frame pointer = 0x10:0xefbffe10 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 37 (sh) interrupt mask = kernel: type 12 trap, code = 0 Stopped at _exec_aout_imgact+0x17:movl 0(%esi),%edx db> trace _exec_aout_imgact(efbffe9c,f01f55c8,f1029a00,3,0) at _exec_aout_imgact+0x17 _execve(f1029a00,efbfff94,efbfff84,59108,ffffffff) at _execve+0x1c7 _syscall(27,27,59130,ffffffff,efbfdc88) at _syscall+0x129 _Xsyscall() at _Xsyscall+0x35 --- syscall 59, eip = 0x2a3d5, ebp = 0xefbfdc88 --- db> ps pid proc addr uid ppid pgrp flag stat wmesg wchan cmd 37 f1029a00 f50d0000 0 28 5 000006 2 sh 28 f1021200 f50cc000 0 5 5 004086 3 wait f1021200 sh 21 f1021700 f50ce000 0 1 21 000084 3 pause f50ce128 adjkerntz 5 f1014800 f50ca000 0 1 5 004086 3 wait f1014800 sh 4 f100c600 f50c8000 0 0 0 000604 2 update 3 f100c800 f50c6000 0 0 0 000204 3 psleep f020afcc vmdaemon 2 f100ca00 f50c4000 0 0 0 000204 3 psleep f0212e80 pagedaemon 1 f100cc00 f50c2000 0 0 1 004084 3 wait f100cc00 init 0 f02137d4 f024b000 0 0 0 000204 3 sched f02137d4 swapper db> show registers cs 0x8 ds 0x10 es 0x10 ss 0x10 eax 0xf0107960 _exec_aout_imgact ecx 0 edx 0xf1029700 ebx 0xefbffe9c _kstack+0x1e9c esp 0xefbffde4 _kstack+0x1de4 ebp 0xefbffe10 _kstack+0x1e10 esi 0xf4ec2000 edi 0xefbffe9c _kstack+0x1e9c eip 0xf0107977 _exec_aout_imgact+0x17 efl 0x10286 _exec_aout_imgact+0x17: movl 0(%esi),%edx db> That's all I could guess you'd want to see of this. Here's my kernel config: machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident CHUCKRSJ maxusers 48 options GPL_MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=15" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options "COM_MULTIPORT" #Support for DigiBoard options "COMPAT_LINUX" # run linux binaries options LINUX options PERFMON options DDB # debugger support options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options "CHILD_MAX=128" options "OPEN_MAX=128" options "COMPAT_IBCS2" options "SEMMNI=20" options "SEMUNE=20" config kernel root on sd1 controller isa0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 controller pci0 controller ncr0 controller scbus0 disk sd0 # for DOS, 200 megs disk sd1 # /, swap, and /usr, 2.1 GB disk sd2 # /usr2 and swap, 2.1 GB # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr #device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint #options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" #options XSERVER #options FAT_CURSOR device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device sio2 at isa? port 0x0100 tty flags 0x905 device sio3 at isa? port 0x0108 tty flags 0x905 device sio4 at isa? port 0x0110 tty flags 0x905 device sio5 at isa? port 0x0118 tty flags 0x905 device sio6 at isa? port 0x0120 tty flags 0x905 device sio7 at isa? port 0x0128 tty flags 0x905 device sio8 at isa? port 0x0130 tty flags 0x905 device sio9 at isa? port 0x0138 tty flags 0x905 irq 5 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 15 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr # Sound Configuration, for a GUS Max controller snd0 device gus0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 12 drq 1 flags 3 vector gusintr options "GUSMAX" # Config gus max cs4321 dsp device pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log # ijppp uses tun instead of ppp device pseudo-device bpfilter 4 pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 24 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 11:19:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA25094 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA25039; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA02548; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:19:15 -0400 Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:19:15 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9606081819.AA02548@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <16852.834188423@time.cdrom.com> References: <199606071529.JAA29241@rocky.sri.MT.net> <16852.834188423@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > 1. You make a change in -release. > 2. You merge it into -stable. > 3. You make another change in -release. > 4. You go to do another merge into -stable and wind up with a whole *mess* > of conflicts. `cvs update -j' is NOT a decent merge tool! The problem is that you need to carefully specify BOTH merge points. If you are just saying `cvs update -j HEAD foo.c', then yes, of course you are going to lose. This process works: 1. You make a change on the head. It gets rev 1.42. 2. You merge it into the branch with `cvs update -j1.41 -j1.42'. 3. You make another change on the head. It gets rev 1.43. 4. You merge it into the branch with `cvs update -j1.42 -j1.43'. Your conflicts arise because you are not correctly specifying the beginning point of the merge, and so the three-way merge program attempts to re-add the changes between 1.41 and 1.42 in addition to the changes between 1.42 and 1.43, and the conflicts arise because of the unexpected presence of those 1.42 changes in the branch version. If the changes from 1.42 and 1.43 do not themselves overlap, then the merger /ought/ to be able to deal with this (just as it does when you do a `cvs update' and the working file already contains the changes that it wants to apply from the tree). When the changes overlap, then it's impossible for the merger to tell what's going on without some external help (which is what most commercial version-management tools provide). Notice that this implies that attempting to do wholesale merges of branches is a non-starter in CVS. It /has/ to be done incrementally in order to work. Moreover, the model that CVS was really designed for is more like this: 1. You create a branch. 2. You do lots of development work on the branch. 3. You complete the development work on the branch. 4. You merge the entire branch into the head and forget about it. This works also, although it is a bit slower than it might be becaus of the way RCS represents branches. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 11:52:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA00464 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA00449; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA02677; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:52:48 -0400 Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:52:48 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9606081852.AA02677@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: As of 960608, routed now complains bitterly.. In-Reply-To: <199606080818.BAA05012@freefall.freebsd.org> References: <199606080818.BAA05012@freefall.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > Messages of the form: > Jun 8 01:10:39 time routed[57]: rnh_addaddr() failed for 204.216.27.0 mask=0xfffffff0 > Jun 8 01:11:09 time routed[57]: rnh_addaddr() failed for 204.216.27.0 mask=0xfffffff0 > Spew where no messages spewed in former times. Just FYI.. This means that your netmasks are not configured correctly, either on the host, or a router to that network, or both. It happens when routed is listening to RIP packets labeled with one netmask on an interface which is locally configured for another. For example, for a while I had one router configured for 255.255.255.0 and one for 255.255.240.0 (both on the same subnet), and it complained bitterly until I fixed the configurations to agree. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 13:11:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA11470 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usa.nai.net (usa.nai.net [204.71.21.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11445; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chris.nai.net (chris.nai.net [204.71.21.7]) by usa.nai.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA20377; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:07:34 -0400 Message-ID: <31B9DDA7.4D7B@nai.net> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 16:08:07 -0400 From: chris Reply-To: chris@usa.nai.net Organization: NAI X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b4Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org CC: davidg@Root.COM, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. References: <199606080841.CAA31119@terra.aros.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dave Andersen wrote: > Would it be possible for W.C., Inc. to provide facilities for FreeBSD, > Inc. to accept donations via credit card? Frankly, I'll be the first in > line to send in a $25 donation for one of the servers I have littering > the floor here. (Yes, that's a promise). I think that something along > these lines, if it's not too difficult for W.C. to do, would be a huge > contribution to FreeBSD. > WC has given a lot to FreeBSD, but as also made money off selling CD-ROMs. Why can't WC raise the price of the CD-ROM and kick some back to the core team? I'll glady buy CD-ROMS and pay extra instead of hosing my T-1 during a sup. What about sup subscriptions? WC has this incredibly fast machine that could support sup via subscription. FreeBSD still remains free, but the easier ways of getting it require a little extra money. Kind of like buying media from GNU vs. downloading. On another note, it is interesting that people who use free software demand "rights". Strange. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 13:37:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA15162 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA15147; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA06737; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:37:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606082037.NAA06737@precipice.shockwave.com> To: Garrett Wollman cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: As of 960608, routed now complains bitterly.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 1996 14:52:48 EDT." <9606081852.AA02677@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 13:37:00 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Garrett Wollman Subject: As of 960608, routed now complains bitterly.. <>freebsd.org> said: > Messages of the form: > Jun 8 01:10:39 time routed[57]: rnh_addaddr() failed for 204.216.27.0 mask >>=0xfffffff0 > Jun 8 01:11:09 time routed[57]: rnh_addaddr() failed for 204.216.27.0 mask >>=0xfffffff0 > Spew where no messages spewed in former times. Just FYI.. This means that your netmasks are not configured correctly, either on the host, or a router to that network, or both. It happens when routed is listening to RIP packets labeled with one netmask on an interface which is locally configured for another. For example, for a while I had one router configured for 255.255.255.0 and one for 255.255.240.0 (both on the same subnet), and it complained bitterly until I fixed the configurations to agree. How are RIPv1 packets labeled with a netmask? You're not telling me that the new routed defaults to v2, are you? :-( grrr... Curious, Paul From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 13:43:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA15944 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15936 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA25399; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:43:35 -0700 Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:43:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Veggy Vinny To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: console messages Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I'm running the June 3rd, 1996 FreeBSD-current and it seems on a machine with a Intel Neptune based Dual P5-100 system with 128 megs of RAM and 300 megs of disk swap, we keep getting the following message and then the machine reboots or just hangs there, any ideas what can be causing this? /kernel: proc: table is full swap_pager: out of swap space Vince System Administration/GaiaNet Corporation From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 13:44:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA16123 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16084; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA06854; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606082043.NAA06854@precipice.shockwave.com> To: chris@usa.nai.net cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 1996 16:08:07 EDT." <31B9DDA7.4D7B@nai.net> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 13:43:10 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Because WC still has to COMPETE with the other CD rom guys who will sell it for WC's old price. If WC raises their prices further, then the unenlightened public will go elsewhere and WC will end up LOSING money. That's not a very nice "thank you" message for all their help. What's the alternative? Restrict distribution of FreeBSD and it's no longer is FREE. I, for one, would be very unhappy to see FreeBSD go the way of Red Hat Linux, as an example. Let's leave WC out of this. Those guys are absolutely fantastic and have done more for FreeBSD than any other company. If we can't solve this problem on our own, then we should just let FreeBSD die. People are getting the best damn operating system available on the market today, they're getting it for free. If they feel like saying thank you for all the hard work and making more hard work possible, then contribute either in time, equipment, or money. Hmm, why do I feel like a public television station? Paul From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 13:53:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA17233 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA17184; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606082053.NAA17184@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Garrett Wollman cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 1996 14:19:15 EDT." <9606081819.AA02548@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 13:53:19 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Notice that this implies that attempting to do wholesale merges of >branches is a non-starter in CVS. It /has/ to be done incrementally >in order to work. Moreover, the model that CVS was really designed >for is more like this: It looks like you can also specify dates for -j, so it *may* be possible to do this by date. >-GAWollman > >-- >Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... >wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. >Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like peopl >e >MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 13:55:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA17473 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA17456; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606082055.NAA17456@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Garrett Wollman cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: As of 960608, routed now complains bitterly.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 1996 14:52:48 EDT." <9606081852.AA02677@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 13:55:19 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ><reebsd.org> said: > >> Messages of the form: >> Jun 8 01:10:39 time routed[57]: rnh_addaddr() failed for 204.216.27.0 mask= >0xfffffff0 >> Jun 8 01:11:09 time routed[57]: rnh_addaddr() failed for 204.216.27.0 mask= >0xfffffff0 > >> Spew where no messages spewed in former times. Just FYI.. > >This means that your netmasks are not configured correctly, either on >the host, or a router to that network, or both... Can we make the error message more explanatory then? >-- >Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... >wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. >Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like peopl >e >MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 14:02:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA18347 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usa.nai.net (usa.nai.net [204.71.21.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18305; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chris.nai.net (chris.nai.net [204.71.21.7]) by usa.nai.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA22418; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:58:53 -0400 Message-ID: <31B9E9AE.461@nai.net> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 16:59:27 -0400 From: chris Reply-To: chris@usa.nai.net Organization: NAI X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b4Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Traina CC: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. References: <199606082043.NAA06854@precipice.shockwave.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Traina wrote: > > Because WC still has to COMPETE with the other CD rom guys who will sell > it for WC's old price. > > If WC raises their prices further, then the unenlightened public will go > elsewhere and WC will end up LOSING money. That's not a very nice "thank > you" message for all their help. Maybe there needs to be an official distribution. Anyone can sell it- just pass FreeBSD $$ per copy. This OS has tremendous potential. I hate to see it not realized because of a few $$$ (or $$,$$$). From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 14:13:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA19479 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mole.mole.org (marmot.mole.org [204.216.57.191]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19469; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by mole.mole.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA05873; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 21:11:39 GMT Received: from meerkat.mole.org(206.197.192.110) by mole.mole.org via smap (V1.3) id sma005869; Sat Jun 8 21:11:15 1996 Received: (from mrm@localhost) by meerkat.mole.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA19115; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:11:14 -0700 Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 14:11:14 -0700 From: "M.R.Murphy" Message-Id: <199606082111.OAA19115@meerkat.mole.org> To: terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Inre: function of -stable > > 1) we acknowled the function of -stable to be as an intermediate > tree, between -release and -current Maybe. Maybe not. Depends upon 4, below. > 2) we posit that the relationship -stable bears to -release vs. > that it bears to -current is generally acknowledged to be > indeterminate at this time, with cause cited as there being > a dichotomy in administrative policy applied to -stable that > has not been resolved Yep. > 3) we posit that the relationship goals for -current and -release > are conflicting, and that this is the source of the policy > dichotomy What? > 4) we conclude that the function of -stable needs to be defined, > since it is meeting neiter relationship criteria to the > general satisfaction of the parties involved Empahtic YEP. > 5) we note that one potential resoloution would be to eliminate > the implied -stable/-current relationship entirely (as has > been proposed by others) in favor of causing -current itself > to fulfill that role by meeting the -stable buildability > criteria, assuming the previously referenced problems are > resolved first > I suggest that it's not only the buildability of stable, but the crashlessness and bugfixedness of stable that's important. There is a real place for a bugfixed incarnation of the previous release. Curent may build fine, but if it crashes or bumps, it doesn't make it as a stable system. As it should be. This is not just a FreeBSD problem. I haven't seen a single commercial vendor that manages to provide a solution to this problem that is worth a hill of warm horse manure. -- Mike Murphy mrm@Mole.ORG +1 619 598 5874 Better is the enemy of Good From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 15:08:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA25855 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA25819; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA02414; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:11:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Paul Traina cc: chris@usa.nai.net, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: What about... was: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-Reply-To: <199606082043.NAA06854@precipice.shockwave.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think Paul's analysis vastly oversimplifies the issue. Anybody could take a CD, and offer it at a cheaper price. Doesn't mean they'll sell enough of them to dent walnut creek. Perhaps WC could stick a sticker on the box that says "Some amount of money from this sale goes to furthering development". Or a higher-priced subscription plan. Or how about selling access to an "exclusive" mailing list, that is shared with the developers? I would pay money if my technical issue questions, as opposed to generic "anybody seen a ...." questions were sent directly to the developers, and I *knew* that it was followed by the developers. Even if not acted upon. That's essentially what I get when I buy support from BSD/OS. I rarely actually get help now (don't need it), but the messages get filed away for "future reference", and occasionally, somebody like Chris or somebody else moderately famous in the BSD community, but whose name I can't remember, sends me a more detailed treatise. Too many times, I see the hardcore developers talk about avoiding reading the lists, because it consumes too much time... I'd pay to be on a list that they would always attempt to read... Or tie the mailing list in with a higher priced FreeBSD subscription plan. The bean-counters here have a hard time with "donation", but wouldn't blink 2x if it was called a "support list", or whatever. It would be no different than purchasing a Mickey Soft Developer Network subscription. I agree with the user that said this thing has real potential. I have converted my whole operation over to FreeBSD, except for 1 box which I won't reboot, because it's been up so long, and 1 box which requires a working 2940UW driver, which at the time I installed, there wasn't, and BSD/OS had it. Frankly, a paid subscription list may work better for the developers anyway. Somebody's paying money to be on the list, the implication being that they think enough of the product to pay for the list, so it would behoove a developer to at least take a gander at the issue/problem, in order to keep the $$$'s rolling in that would hopefully pay somebody else to do menial work that the developer is currently having to do, instead of hacking on FreeBSD. On Sat, 8 Jun 1996, Paul Traina wrote: > Because WC still has to COMPETE with the other CD rom guys who will sell > it for WC's old price. > > If WC raises their prices further, then the unenlightened public will go > elsewhere and WC will end up LOSING money. That's not a very nice "thank > you" message for all their help. > > What's the alternative? Restrict distribution of FreeBSD and it's > no longer is FREE. > > I, for one, would be very unhappy to see FreeBSD go the way of Red > Hat Linux, as an example. > > Let's leave WC out of this. Those guys are absolutely fantastic > and have done more for FreeBSD than any other company. If we can't > solve this problem on our own, then we should just let FreeBSD die. > > People are getting the best damn operating system available on the > market today, they're getting it for free. If they feel like saying > thank you for all the hard work and making more hard work possible, > then contribute either in time, equipment, or money. > > Hmm, why do I feel like a public television station? > > Paul > From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 15:26:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA27837 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA27832; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA20059; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606082222.PAA20059@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PONY UP! (was: The -stable problem: my view) In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 07 Jun 96 19:58:31 -0700. <16211.834202711@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 15:22:34 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> For the benefit of the aged, like myself, perhaps you could >> change the name. 8-) >Or, for the benefit of those who are poor of eyesight, like yourself, >we should simply send out these mailings in larger type. :-) Please don't! I have too much disk space allocated to mail, already, with the current type size... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 15:48:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA00805 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:48:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00770 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ab13109; 8 Jun 96 23:47 +0100 Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa11302; 8 Jun 96 23:46 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA09529; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 21:31:25 GMT Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 21:31:25 GMT Message-Id: <199606082131.VAA09529@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: toor@dyson.iquest.net Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks Cc: plm@xs4all.nl, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> No guarantees, but I found a *major* omission in pmap.c. Replace the >> pmap_object_init_pt routine in pmap.c with the following, and see how >> things go: > >Seems to have stood up to everything I've thrown at it so far... Latest update: No crashes, panics or lockups to date, but I did have one case of a strange error message from Emacs last night ("Invalid value for stringp: nil"); however, I was able to close it without any problems, when usually this would have led to a lockup. I've not been able to replicate this. This is *without* last night's code updates (which I'll be compiling later). Apart from the isolated glitch, the code is running really nicely now! -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland | http://www.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ james@jraynard.demon.co.uk | jraynard@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 15:52:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA01331 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01303; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA09118; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606082250.PAA09118@precipice.shockwave.com> To: Jaye Mathisen cc: chris@usa.nai.net, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What about... was: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 1996 15:11:58 PDT." Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 15:50:27 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jaye, There's nothing stopping anyone from doing just that. Go out, grab a snapshot of 2.2, and start selling support. Charge people for access to the supporters. Maybe some of the original FreeBSD crew will join your company (cf. Cygnus). I can only speak for myself, but *I* do this for fun. If someone was paying money to FreeBSD, Inc. for "support" and I was obligated to read their mail, they're going to nag me for support because they expect it. I'm afraid when I work for money, I take the job seriously, and I charge appropriately, and I suspect that most people reading this list would be utterly aghast if they heard what I charge. If you want a commercially supported BSD based operating system, there's a wonderful one already available. If you want to put up with the vagaries of FreeBSD, which has a rich contributor pool (thankfully not as rich as the Linux crowd), then you're welcome. Writing new code is fun. Keeping other people's computers running is less so. We do the later because we think FreeBSD is cool and like to spread the word. I was originally violently opposed to dropping the concept of a -stable branch, but supporting only -current is starting to sound better and better every time I think about it. Paul From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 16:13:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA04225 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA04215; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA01671; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:09:01 -0700 (PDT) To: Garrett Wollman cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), freebsd-stable@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Stable Users), FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users) Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 1996 14:19:15 EDT." <9606081819.AA02548@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 16:09:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1668.834275340@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1. You make a change on the head. It gets rev 1.42. > 2. You merge it into the branch with `cvs update -j1.41 -j1.42'. > 3. You make another change on the head. It gets rev 1.43. > 4. You merge it into the branch with `cvs update -j1.42 -j1.43'. Yes, this is essentially how I do it now (well, I tend to batch the merges so it's not just one version being brought over at a time), I'm just saying that I shouldn't *have* to remember what changed when - I want an SCM tool which supports the concept of repeated merges, plain and simple, and does this kind of grunt-work *for* me. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 16:14:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA04341 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA04333; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA01717; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:13:47 -0700 (PDT) To: Garrett Wollman cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: As of 960608, routed now complains bitterly.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 1996 14:52:48 EDT." <9606081852.AA02677@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 16:13:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1715.834275627@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This means that your netmasks are not configured correctly, either on > the host, or a router to that network, or both. It happens when Hmmm. There are two hosts on this wire, one is the complaining host and the other is the gateway. Here are the interfaces for each: [The complaining host] root@time-> ifconfig -a de0: flags=c843 mtu 1500 inet 204.216.27.226 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 204.216.27.239 ether 00:80:48:e8:01:4d lp0: flags=8810 mtu 1500 sl0: flags=c010 mtu 552 lo0: flags=8009 mtu 16384 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 [And now the gateway, the only other host on the wire] root@whisker-> ifconfig -a ed0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 inet 204.216.27.228 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 204.216.27.239 ether 00:00:c0:13:92:72 lp0: flags=8810 mtu 1500 lo0: flags=8009 mtu 16384 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 ppp0: flags=8010 mtu 1500 sl0: flags=9011 mtu 552 inet 204.216.27.194 --> 204.216.27.193 netmask 0xfffffff0 tun0: flags=8010 mtu 1500 Given that this is a 16 host subnet, it stands to reason that the netmask on de0/ed0 is correct. The sl0 line shouldn't matter (it goes to freefall, which also has correct netmasks for everything, just BTW). So now where's my problem? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 16:35:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA06712 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA06706 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA01850 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:35:17 -0700 (PDT) To: current@freebsd.org Subject: BULLETIN/960608: /usr/src/usr.sbin/config will need to be rebuilt Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 16:35:17 -0700 Message-ID: <1848.834276917@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is due to a change made to support the new/old kernel config option ``INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE'', which compiles the kernel configuration description into the kernel itself. To read the config file back out of a kernel so compiled again, you simply do: strings /kernel | grep ___ | sed -e 's/___//' This feature used to be in FreeBSD 1.x and got lost somewhere along the way. Thanks to Bill Pechter for resurrecting it! Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 16:44:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA07506 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA07470; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA01900; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:43:22 -0700 (PDT) To: Paul Traina cc: chris@usa.nai.net, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 1996 13:43:10 PDT." <199606082043.NAA06854@precipice.shockwave.com> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 16:43:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1898.834277402@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmm, why do I feel like a public television station? Because we find ourselves in a remarkably similar situation? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 19:13:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA25284 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 19:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (root@orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25251; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 19:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by orion.webspan.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA13615; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:13:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Watson To: Paul Traina cc: Jaye Mathisen , chris@usa.nai.net, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What about... was: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-Reply-To: <199606082250.PAA09118@precipice.shockwave.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 8 Jun 1996, Paul Traina wrote: > I can only speak for myself, but *I* do this for fun. If someone was > paying money to FreeBSD, Inc. for "support" and I was obligated to read > their mail, they're going to nag me for support because they expect it. Support bad.. very very bad :) > I'm afraid when I work for money, I take the job seriously, and I charge > appropriately, and I suspect that most people reading this list would be > utterly aghast if they heard what I charge. > If you want a commercially supported BSD based operating system, there's > a wonderful one already available. If you want to put up with the vagaries > of FreeBSD, which has a rich contributor pool (thankfully not as rich as > the Linux crowd), then you're welcome. gack you had to mention the "L" word didnt you. > Writing new code is fun. Keeping other people's computers running is less > so. We do the later because we think FreeBSD is cool and like to spread > the word. > I was originally violently opposed to dropping the concept of a -stable > branch, but supporting only -current is starting to sound better and > better every time I think about it. I have come around to that thinking myself since the day after i started my gripe about -stable sticking around. I think what we are seeing here is that FreeBSD has become so popular among corporate and mission critical places, That these places are run by suits or admins who are used to "commercial" grade OS's. Which FreeBSD pounds into the ground i believe. And these people are not grasping the concept of how little help you folks have. And that this is not a commercial OS. The comments of david and yourself and a few others the last week has projected a feeling that some of you are just burning out on this project. I would ahte to see that happen, and im hoping that if nothing else comes out of this that the core team gets more help and more donations of a financial nature to help lighten the enourmous load you guys have. Im quite comfortable now having gotten used to -stable for my ISP and taken it for granted that going back to the old way of just releasing snaps of the upcoming version at intervals of stability is the best way to go. I dont think theres much of a need to discuss the demise of -stable anymore. It's just to big of a monster to tackle right now with given resources. Besides if this -stable issue doesnt die soon im gonna have to start greping my mail and rm'ing anything with stable in it :) These are my rantings for today. Chris -- ===================================| Webspan Inc., ISP Division. FreeBSD 2.1.0 is available now! | Phone: 908-367-8030 ext. 126 -----------------------------------| 500 West Kennedy Blvd., Lakewood, NJ-08701 Turning PCs into Workstations | E-Mail: scanner@webspan.net http://www.freebsd.org | SysAdmin / Network Engineer / Security ===================================| Member BSDNET team! http://www.bsdnet.org From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 20:08:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA03076 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 20:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from magigimmix.xs4all.nl (magigimmix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA03071 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 20:08:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asterix.xs4all.nl (asterix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.11]) by magigimmix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/XS4ALL) with ESMTP id FAA03271 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 05:08:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from plm.xs4all.nl (uucp@localhost) by asterix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.2) with UUCP id FAA01718 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 05:05:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA03551; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 07:54:59 +0200 (MET DST) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More on VM, swap leaks References: <8720jqkfju.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> From: Peter Mutsaers Date: 08 Jun 1996 07:54:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Gary Palmer"'s message of Fri, 07 Jun 1996 00:56:21 +0100 Message-ID: <87d93ac026.fsf@plm.xs4all.nl> Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.9/Emacs 19.31 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Fri, 07 Jun 1996 00:56:21 +0100, "Gary Palmer" >> said: >> I had always suspected as much. Thanks for confirming this. >> (Is this in 4.4BSD in general, or in FreeBSD, specifically?) GP> I think you'll find it's older than 4.4BSD. I seem to remember GP> SunOS 4.1.3 (i.e. 4.3BSD) man pages saying that the sticky bit GP> from files was historical and did nothing. But the FreeBSD man pages suggest that it is not ignored. -- ______________________________________________________________________ Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | "Quod licet bovis, plm@xs4all.nl | the Netherlands | non licet Jovi." From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 20:14:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA04017 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 20:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from absolut-zero.winternet.com (root@absolut-zero.winternet.com [198.174.169.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA03956; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 20:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parka (nordquis@parka.winternet.com [198.174.169.9]) by absolut-zero.winternet.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with ESMTP id WAA23457; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:14:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nordquis@localhost) by parka (8.7.4/8.6.12) id WAA10317; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:14:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Brent Nordquist Posted-Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:14:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199606090314.WAA10317@parka> Subject: Adaptec 2940UW: OK in -SNAP, hangs in -current To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs), aic7xxx@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:14:16 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Reply-to: nordquis@winternet.com (Brent J. Nordquist) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I finally took the plunge this weekend and did a clean install on my system using 2.2-960501-SNAP, and I built a custom kernel. There weren't any problems with the aic7xxx driver that I had seen when I was using 2.1-960505-stable; the system booted several times without a problem. Then I sup'ed -current and did a make world, plus a kernel recompile using the same kernel config file I had used with -SNAP. The builds went fine. However, the new kernel won't boot; it hangs on my 4mm DAT drive and CD-ROM, tries several other non-existent targets, and later panics. Unlike with -stable, it happens every time. The relevant differences from the dmesg log, and the versions of the files, appear below. I saw the message on one of the mailing lists with the patch to two of the driver files, so I applied it, and things were worse: it hangs on the first device (a disk drive). Differences from that boot's dmesg are also below. As a last resort, I tried restoring just the eight aic7xxx driver files from -SNAP into the -current /usr/src/sys and remaking the kernel. It hangs essentially the same way as the unpatched -current aic7xxx kernel. The -SNAP kernel still boots (although things like the -current ps don't work), but the -current kernel (with either -SNAP or -current aic7xxx) doesn't. Any ideas, or other things I need to provide to help troubleshoot? Thanks! Brent =====Unpatched -current kernel============================================ *** dmesg.good Sat Jun 8 17:28:50 1996 --- dmesg.bad Sat Jun 8 17:37:50 1996 *************** *** 32,38 **** ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:12 mapreg[10] type=1 addr=0000f800 size=0100. mapreg[14] type=0 addr=fefff000 size=1000. - ahc0: BurstLen = 4DWDs, Latency Timer = 96PCLKS ahc0: Reading SEEPROM...done. ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0: Downloading Sequencer Program...Done --- 32,37 ---- *************** *** 46,57 **** (ahc0:1:0): "SEAGATE ST1480 SUN0424 7516" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 411MB (843284 512 byte sectors) sd1(ahc0:1:0): with 1476 cyls, 9 heads, and an average 63 sectors/track ! ahc0:A:2: refuses syncronous negotiation. Using asyncronous transfers ! (ahc0:2:0): "EXABYTE EXB-4200 216" type 1 removable SCSI 2 ! st0(ahc0:2:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x13, drive empty ! ahc0: target 3 synchronous at 5.0MHz, offset = 0xc ! (ahc0:3:0): "NEC CD-ROM DRIVE:500 2.8" type 5 removable SCSI 2 ! cd0(ahc0:3:0): CD-ROM cd present [325252 x 2048 byte records] --- 45,83 ---- (ahc0:1:0): "SEAGATE ST1480 SUN0424 7516" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 411MB (843284 512 byte sectors) sd1(ahc0:1:0): with 1476 cyls, 9 heads, and an average 63 sectors/track ! ahc0: board is not responding ! (ahc0:2:0): timed out in message out phase, SCSISIGI==0xf6 ! (ahc0:2:0): asserted ATN - device reset in message buffer ! ahc0: board is not responding ! cmd fail ! (ahc0:2:0): "unknown unknown ????" type 0 fixed SCSI 0 ! sd2(ahc0:2:0): Direct-Access ahc0: board is not responding ! cmd fail ! ahc0: board is not responding ! cmd fail ! 0MB (1 512 byte sectors) ! sd2(ahc0:2:0): with 0 cyls, 64 heads, and an average 32 sectors/track ! ahc0: board is not responding ! ahc0: board is not responding ! cmd fail ! (ahc0:3:0): "unknown unknown ????" type 0 fixed SCSI 0 ! sd3(ahc0:3:0): Direct-Access ahc0: board is not responding ! cmd fail ! ahc0: board is not responding ! cmd fail ! 0MB (1 512 byte sectors) ! sd3(ahc0:3:0): with 0 cyls, 64 heads, and an average 32 sectors/track ! ahc0: board is not responding ! ahc0: board is not responding ! cmd fail ! (ahc0:4:0): "unknown unknown ????" type 0 fixed SCSI 0 ! sd4(ahc0:4:0): Direct-Access ahc0: board is not responding ! cmd fail ! ahc0: board is not responding ! cmd fail ! 0MB (1 512 byte sectors) ! sd4(ahc0:4:0): with 0 cyls, 64 heads, and an average 32 sectors/track ! ahc0: board is not responding *************** *** 82,94 **** ! imasks: bio c0000240, tty c00300ba, net c00300ba new masks: bio c0000240, tty c00300ba, net c00300ba ! sd0s1: type 0xa5, start 983040, end = 2068479, size 1085440 : OK ! sd0s3: type 0x6, start 32, end = 983039, size 983008 : OK ! sd1s1: type 0x5, start 2048, end = 411647, size 409600 : OK ! sd1s2: type 0xa5, start 411648, end = 841727, size 430080 : OK ! sd1s5: type 0x6, start 2080, end = 411647, size 409568 : OK ! sd1s1: type 0x5, start 2048, end = 411647, size 409600 : OK ! sd1s2: type 0xa5, start 411648, end = 841727, size 430080 : OK ! sd1s5: type 0x6, start 2080, end = 411647, size 409568 : OK --- 108,116 ---- ! Device configuration finished ! Considering FFS root f/s. ! Configuring root and swap devs. ! configure() finished. new masks: bio c0000240, tty c00300ba, net c00300ba ! panic: ahc0: Timed-out command times out again =====Difference between -SNAP and -current driver files=================== *** files.good Sat Jun 8 21:30:29 1996 --- files.bad Sat Jun 8 21:32:54 1996 *************** *** 1,8 **** ! dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.seq: aic7xxx.seq,v 1.33 1996/04/20 21:20:29 gibbs ! dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx_reg.h: aic7xxx_reg.h,v 1.8 1996/04/20 21:20:31 gibbs ! i386/eisa/aic7770.c: aic7770.c,v 1.27 1996/04/20 21:21:47 gibbs ! i386/scsi/93cx6.c: 93cx6.c,v 1.4 1995/11/20 12:14:02 phk ! i386/scsi/93cx6.h: 93cx6.h,v 1.2 1995/09/05 23:52:00 gibbs ! i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c: aic7xxx.c,v 1.65 1996/04/28 19:21:19 gibbs ! i386/scsi/aic7xxx.h: aic7xxx.h,v 1.26 1996/04/28 19:21:20 gibbs ! pci/aic7870.c: aic7870.c,v 1.29 1996/04/20 21:31:27 gibbs --- 1,8 ---- ! dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.seq: aic7xxx.seq,v 1.40 1996/05/31 06:30:15 gibbs ! dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx_reg.h: aic7xxx_reg.h,v 1.11 1996/05/21 18:32:23 gibbs ! i386/eisa/aic7770.c: aic7770.c,v 1.29 1996/05/30 07:18:52 gibbs ! i386/scsi/93cx6.c: 93cx6.c,v 1.5 1996/05/30 07:19:54 gibbs ! i386/scsi/93cx6.h: 93cx6.h,v 1.3 1996/05/30 07:19:55 gibbs ! i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c: aic7xxx.c,v 1.72 1996/05/31 06:32:09 gibbs ! i386/scsi/aic7xxx.h: aic7xxx.h,v 1.28 1996/05/30 07:19:59 gibbs ! pci/aic7870.c: aic7870.c,v 1.36 1996/05/30 07:20:17 gibbs =====Patched -current kernel============================================== *** dmesg.good Sat Jun 8 17:28:50 1996 --- dmesg.worse Sat Jun 8 21:53:42 1996 *************** *** 38,... **** ahc0: Downloading Sequencer Program...Done ahc0: Probing channel A ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle ! ahc0: target 0 synchronous at 10.0MHz, offset = 0xf ! (ahc0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST31230N 0170" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 ! sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1010MB (2069860 512 byte sectors) ! sd0(ahc0:0:0): with 3992 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 103 sectors/track ! ahc0: target 1 synchronous at 5.0MHz, offset = 0xf ! (ahc0:1:0): "SEAGATE ST1480 SUN0424 7516" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 ! sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 411MB (843284 512 byte sectors) ! sd1(ahc0:1:0): with 1476 cyls, 9 heads, and an average 63 sectors/track ! ahc0:A:2: refuses syncronous negotiation. Using asyncronous transfers ! (ahc0:2:0): "EXABYTE EXB-4200 216" type 1 removable SCSI 2 ! st0(ahc0:2:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x13, drive empty ! ahc0: target 3 synchronous at 5.0MHz, offset = 0xc ! (ahc0:3:0): "NEC CD-ROM DRIVE:500 2.8" type 5 removable SCSI 2 ! cd0(ahc0:3:0): CD-ROM cd present [325252 x 2048 byte records] ... --- 38,46 ---- ahc0: Downloading Sequencer Program...Done ahc0: Probing channel A ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle ! ahc0: board is not responding ! (ahc0:0:0): timed out in dataout phase, SCSISIGI == 0x0 ! ahc0: Issued Channel A Bus Reset #2. 1 SCBs aborted ! ahc0: board is not responding ! (ahc0:0:0): timed out in dataout phase, SCSISIGI == 0x0 ! ahc0: Issued Channel A Bus Reset #2. 1 SCBs aborted ========================================================================== -- Brent J. Nordquist Which is worse: ignorance or apathy? nordquis@winternet.com ...Who knows? +1 612 827-2747 ...Who cares? From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 20:24:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA05717 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 20:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA05678; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 20:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606090324.UAA05678@freefall.freebsd.org> To: nordquis@winternet.com (Brent J. Nordquist) cc: aic7xxx@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adaptec 2940UW: OK in -SNAP, hangs in -current In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 1996 22:14:16 CDT." <199606090314.WAA10317@parka> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 20:24:34 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Can you tell me the revisions of the files from -current you are using? There were some problems witha botched patch in -current from a day or two ago, and I fixed it just last night. I'm guessing you didn't get the latest version of the driver. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 22:49:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA23033 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netrail.net (nathan@netrail.net [205.215.6.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA23014 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nathan@localhost) by netrail.net (8.7.5/Netrail) with SMTP id BAA17692 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:48:35 -0400 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:48:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan Stratton To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: does freebsd support SMP? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk DOes freebsd supoort SMP? Nathan Stratton CEO, NetRail, Inc. Tracking the future today! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phone (703)524-4800 NetRail, Inc. Fax (703)534-5033 2007 N. 15 St. Suite 5 Email sales@netrail.net Arlington, Va. 22201 WWW http://www.netrail.net/ Access: (703) 524-4802 guest --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Matthew 6:34 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:13:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Watson To: Paul Traina Cc: Jaye Mathisen , chris@usa.nai.net, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What about... was: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. On Sat, 8 Jun 1996, Paul Traina wrote: > I can only speak for myself, but *I* do this for fun. If someone was > paying money to FreeBSD, Inc. for "support" and I was obligated to read > their mail, they're going to nag me for support because they expect it. Support bad.. very very bad :) > I'm afraid when I work for money, I take the job seriously, and I charge > appropriately, and I suspect that most people reading this list would be > utterly aghast if they heard what I charge. > If you want a commercially supported BSD based operating system, there's > a wonderful one already available. If you want to put up with the vagaries > of FreeBSD, which has a rich contributor pool (thankfully not as rich as > the Linux crowd), then you're welcome. gack you had to mention the "L" word didnt you. > Writing new code is fun. Keeping other people's computers running is less > so. We do the later because we think FreeBSD is cool and like to spread > the word. > I was originally violently opposed to dropping the concept of a -stable > branch, but supporting only -current is starting to sound better and > better every time I think about it. I have come around to that thinking myself since the day after i started my gripe about -stable sticking around. I think what we are seeing here is that FreeBSD has become so popular among corporate and mission critical places, That these places are run by suits or admins who are used to "commercial" grade OS's. Which FreeBSD pounds into the ground i believe. And these people are not grasping the concept of how little help you folks have. And that this is not a commercial OS. The comments of david and yourself and a few others the last week has projected a feeling that some of you are just burning out on this project. I would ahte to see that happen, and im hoping that if nothing else comes out of this that the core team gets more help and more donations of a financial nature to help lighten the enourmous load you guys have. Im quite comfortable now having gotten used to -stable for my ISP and taken it for granted that going back to the old way of just releasing snaps of the upcoming version at intervals of stability is the best way to go. I dont think theres much of a need to discuss the demise of -stable anymore. It's just to big of a monster to tackle right now with given resources. Besides if this -stable issue doesnt die soon im gonna have to start greping my mail and rm'ing anything with stable in it :) These are my rantings for today. Chris -- ===================================| Webspan Inc., ISP Division. FreeBSD 2.1.0 is available now! | Phone: 908-367-8030 ext. 126 -----------------------------------| 500 West Kennedy Blvd., Lakewood, NJ-08701 Turning PCs into Workstations | E-Mail: scanner@webspan.net http://www.freebsd.org | SysAdmin / Network Engineer / Security ===================================| Member BSDNET team! http://www.bsdnet.org From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 8 22:54:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA24015 for current-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netrail.net (nathan@netrail.net [205.215.6.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA23974; Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nathan@localhost) by netrail.net (8.7.5/Netrail) with SMTP id BAA17863; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:54:11 -0400 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:54:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Nathan Stratton To: Chris Watson cc: Paul Traina , Jaye Mathisen , chris@usa.nai.net, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What about... was: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 8 Jun 1996, Chris Watson wrote: > I have come around to that thinking myself since the day after i started > my gripe about -stable sticking around. I think what we are seeing here is > that FreeBSD has become so popular among corporate and mission critical > places, That these places are run by suits or admins who are used to > "commercial" grade OS's. Which FreeBSD pounds into the ground i believe. > And these people are not grasping the concept of how little help you folks > have. And that this is not a commercial OS. The comments of david and > yourself and a few others the last week has projected a feeling that some > of you are just burning out on this project. I would ahte to see that > happen, and im hoping that if nothing else comes out of this that the core > team gets more help and more donations of a financial nature to help > lighten the enourmous load you guys have. Im quite comfortable now having > gotten used to -stable for my ISP and taken it for granted that going back > to the old way of just releasing snaps of the upcoming version at > intervals of stability is the best way to go. I dont think theres much of > a need to discuss the demise of -stable anymore. It's just to big of a > monster to tackle right now with given resources. > Besides if this -stable issue doesnt die soon im gonna have to start > greping my mail and rm'ing anything with stable in it :) We use FreeBSD for our routers and servers, we are not large but would like to help in any way we can. Can someone setup a www page of what is needed and a way for people to send money? I know that netrail and many other ISPs would send you money and hardware for support if we just knew what the needs were and had a way of say paying you via CC or something. Nathan Stratton CEO, NetRail, Inc. Tracking the future today! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phone (703)524-4800 NetRail, Inc. Fax (703)534-5033 2007 N. 15 St. Suite 5 Email sales@netrail.net Arlington, Va. 22201 WWW http://www.netrail.net/ Access: (703) 524-4802 guest --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Matthew 6:34