From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Dec 22 03:41:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA29036 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 03:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-4-214.mu.de.ibm.net [139.92.4.214]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA29017; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 03:40:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA11757; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:23:17 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199612211523.QAA11757@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: tarkhil@aha.ru cc: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A _very_ old streamer controller From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. X-Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Phone: +49.89.268616 X-Fax: +49.89.2608126 X-ISDN: +49.89.26023276 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Dec 1996 20:18:10 +0300." <199612201718.UAA05800@minas_tirith.aha.ru> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:23:16 +0100 Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: Alex Povolotsky > Reply-to: tarkhil@aha.ru > Subject: Re: A _very_ old streamer controller > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 20:18:10 +0300 > Message-id: <199612201718.UAA05800@minas_tirith.aha.ru> > > Hello! > > Maybe someone will help me with my old but still working QIC-02 > controller. It's 8-bit, fullsize and probabily was made by Everex. It > has a LOT of undocumented jumpers, some of caps were lost :-( > > I need to know which jumpers should be shorted. Everex doesn't support > these devices anymore... > Insufficient Info ! By now you will have seen a posting by me on this list, asking for info on other cards, but offering _card component_ & _DIP header_ geographical layout so people have a chance to compare & match, If you provide this info I may be able to help, as I have some old 8 bit full length sheets here, my card is 16 bit I think, but a friend's is 8 bit I recall. It runs a drive that answers wt0 at 0x200-0x203 irq 9 drq 1 on isa wt0: type Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Dec 22 03:41:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA29055 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 03:41:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-4-214.mu.de.ibm.net [139.92.4.214]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA29032 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 03:41:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA11682 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:00:18 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199612211500.QAA11682@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: e-mail forwarding From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. X-Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Phone: +49.89.268616 X-Fax: +49.89.2608126 X-ISDN: +49.89.26023276 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:10:01 +0100." <199612201310.OAA00241@vector.jhs.no_domain> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:00:17 +0100 Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD harware people, Reference My: > From: "Julian H. Stacey" > Subject: Re: e-mail forwarding > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:10:01 +0100 > Message-id: <199612201310.OAA00241@vector.jhs.no_domain> > > I would much appreciate anyone who could shed light on > jumper settings etc, for a motherboard & combi card > that I was given without any docs: Ref. That mail with MIME encoded picture of a motherboard & ascii pic of a combi IO board that I sent a day or 2 ago .... The 486DX motherboard & combi card are both _VESA_ (not PCI as I previously wrote), as before ... any info on jumpers for these cards is most welcome, Anyone who previously didnt look at the mime encoded gif, thinking: "I don't have PCI, just VESA" is requested to glance at http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/hardware/unknown.html to see if you might have the same layout I have. Thanks :-) BTW extra info from the Motherboard at boot time is: CL-GD542X VGA BIOS Version 1.41 Copyright 1992-1993 Cirrus Logic, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Copyright 1987-1990 Quadtel Corp. 01/07/94 AMIBIOS (C) 1993 American Megatrends Inc., Release 10/01/93 40-0100-001437-00101111-080893-4386-F Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Dec 22 06:15:47 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA04177 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 06:15:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from home.winc.com (mgessner@home.winc.com [204.178.182.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA04171 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 06:15:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mgessner@localhost) by home.winc.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA20229 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:15:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199612221415.JAA20229@home.winc.com> Subject: pnp modem To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hardware) Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:15:29 -0500 (EST) From: mgessner@aristar.com Organization: Aristar Software Development, Inc. Reply-To: mgessner@aristar.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, all, Does FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE have support somewhere for PnP modems/hardware? I have a non-PnP BIOS, BTW. TIA, Matt From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Dec 22 21:36:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA18398 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 21:36:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from darkhorse.triad.net (qmailr@darkhorse.triad.net [205.219.23.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA18387 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 21:36:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 25181 invoked by uid 530); 23 Dec 1996 05:36:18 -0000 Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 23:36:18 -0600 (CST) From: stumpy To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.com Subject: sporster isdn Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk is the usr sporster isdn ta compatible with freebsd? From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Dec 22 23:24:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA22829 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 23:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA22793; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 23:23:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vc4jg-000QYyC; Mon, 23 Dec 96 08:23 MET Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id HAA03495; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 07:25:08 +0100 (MET) From: grog@lemis.de Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199612230625.HAA03495@freebie.lemis.de> Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: from Stefan Esser at "Dec 22, 96 09:34:04 pm" To: se@freebsd.org (Stefan Esser) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 07:25:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hardware Users), aat81@pop.dial.pipex.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Esser writes: > On Dec 22, grog@lemis.de wrote: >>>> Warning: Quality control on these drives varies greatly. One FreeBSD >>>> core-team member has returned 2 of these drives. Neither lasted more than >>>> 5 months. >> >> Well, this sounds very much like a report from me. But two things >> don't fit: >> >> 1. I'm not a Core Team member. >> >> 2. I was talking about 37480As. These are an older version of DDS-1 >> drive. I do have a C1533A, and so far I've had no trouble with it >> (more than 6 months, anyway :-) I think, in fact, I've had it >> about 15 months, and I do a nightly backup which usually fills a >> tape. > > Simon had previously sent mail directly to my address, and > I told him to ask you and RGrimes for your experiences. I'm assuming that, since you're writing in English, and WRT what you say below, you'd like me to copy -hardware on this one, so I'm doing so. > He really wasn't that clear about what didn't work for him, > and it may be something silly like using audio grade tapes, > which can't be written to (unless some DIP switch is set to > a non-default position, which might have been the case for > his HP drive). Yes, that's correct. It was one of the problems I was thinking of, too. Let's wait for his reply. >> I tried a Sony a long time ago. I think it was a 3000 or a 4000, and >> they gave it to me in exchange for one of the broken 37480As. It >> seemed to work OK, but it didn't have hardware compression, so I >> returned it (couldn't read the old tapes written with the HP). > > The Sony SDT 7000 is even faster than the HP C1533A, which is > a 3x speed drive. The Sony is 5x speed, taking advantage of a > head drum developed for DDS-3. (And in fact, Sony is the first > to announce availability of a DDS-3 drive, the SDT 9000, with > 24GB (compressed) capacity, ie. 12GB native.) Now there's some interesting information. For some reason, they don't mention this in the data sheets. While I'm on the subject, what do you know about the Archive 4586 NP tape changer? I've just bought one of these, and so far (not really far enough to know), I'm happy. I will report. >> That's definitely not the direction of my problem. Mine worked fine >> initially and then gradually faded, getting more and more read/write >> errors as time went on. > > Hmm, that seems to be a good reason to return a drive before > the end of the warranty :) > > But the head drum is generally not covered by warranty, since > its useful life is typically in the 1000 to 2000 hours range. > (Some 1000 8GB (compressed) backups at full speed, or 300 at > 33% of the nominal streaming data rate !!!) This, again, is interesting information for a number of reasons: 1. I haven't seen any information that the drum isn't covered. Maybe I just forgot it. Unfortunately, I can't find any warranty information. 2. The time you quote is *horribly* short. How can this compare with the documented MTBF. According to HP, the MTBF for the 35470A is 50,000 power-on hours, and the MTBF for the C1533A is 200,000 power-on hours. In each case, they're assuming a duty cycle of 12% (which I exceed), so the real MTBFs would be 6,000 operating hours for the 35470A or 24,000 operating hours for the C1533A. My backups typically write a whole tape and take about 8 hours per day. Tonight's backup started at 9 pm and finished (after a verification read) at 5:07. That's a 33% duty cycle, which would have the 35470A die after about 2 years. If we took your figures, they should die after about 4 to 8 months, which is pretty much my experience. The only thing is, this is the first I have heard of the figures. There's nothing in any documentation I've seen which suggests that the drum is a high-wear component. Laser printer documentation does indicate that the print drum requires frequent replacement, for example. > I've read about the new high capacity QIC drives, which offer > identical capacity and data rate as a DDS-2 DAT. Typical long > term cost might be about the same (expencive cartridges versus > short lived head drums) ... Interesting possibility. The oldest component I still (sometimes) use in my system is my old Tandberg TDC 3800, now about 5 years old, which has never given me any trouble. The current TDC 4222 can apparently store 2.5 GB (5 GB with hardware compression) on a DC9250 tape (which costs DM 48 or $32). They also mention a 13 GB cartridge (DC13GB) for DM 127 ($83), but it's not clear what it's supposed to fit into. Also, I recently got a brochure on Digital Linear Tapes, which use conventional head technology. They apparently store between 30 and 40 GB on a single tape, but the cost is high: wholesale prices are DM 3790 ($2500) for the 30 GB model (Quantum DLT2000XT), and DM 6690 ($4500) for the 40GB model (DLT4000). The tapes are comparatively affordable: from DM 66 ($44) for a 20 GB tape to DM 175 ($115) for a 40 GB tape. > Please post your findings to the hardware list. We'd need a lot > more information like this in a place, where it is easily found. > The Linux How-To concept beats anything FreeBSD has in this area! What's Linux? Seriously, can you give me a pointer to the How-To stuff? Maybe we should think about copying? > (But I do also lack the time, to do anything else about this, > other than to complain :) What? Why do you lack time? Everybody else has plenty :-) Greg From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 23 09:57:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA12288 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from glacier.cold.org (glacier.cold.org [206.81.134.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA12277 for ; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:57:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by glacier.cold.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26491 for ; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 10:57:11 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 10:57:11 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Adaptech 2940UW causes reboots? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm wondering if there are any 'known' problems with using this controller? I just upgraded one of my servers to SCSI (from EIDE off the motherboard). I have the AHA 2940 UW SCSI controller and a Seagate Hawk UltraSCSI drive. Since the upgrade last thursday my server has rebooted itself three times, without any sort of log or other message (I was not around to read the console message as its stuffed in a machine room and no errors were reported in any of the /var/logs). Everything SEEMS to work fine, the install went flawlessly and I have not noticed any other problem--short of these reboots. Help? I really can't have this server rebooting all of the time.. From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 23 11:59:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA19643 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 11:59:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA19626 for ; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 11:58:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA22678; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 11:53:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32BEE31B.2781E494@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 11:52:59 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stumpy CC: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.com Subject: Re: sporster isdn References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk stumpy wrote: > > is the usr sporster isdn ta compatible with freebsd? Apparently NOT, but I'm trying to get programming info... From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 23 14:57:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA27314 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 14:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from maelstrom.dial.pipex.net (maelstrom.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA27308; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 14:57:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaat81.dial.pipex.com by maelstrom.dial.pipex.net (8.8.3/) id WAA28909; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:55:53 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961223225320.006855dc@pop.dial.pipex.com> X-Sender: aat81@pop.dial.pipex.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:56:02 +0000 To: grog@lemis.de, se@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org From: Simon Reading Subject: DAT reliability Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks to those of you who are participating in this thread. In my original post: >I had an HP C1533A DDS-2 drive which worked fine, but which I exchanged for a sony SDT-7000 DDS-2 because of the reliability warnings given in the FreeBSD Handbook. Unfortunately my sony drive is broken - I/O errors on read, can't format tapes using the Adaptec EZ-SCSI utility etc. In this email, I explain what my setup was for both the HP and Sony DDS drives. I RETURNED THE SONY TODAY because it was the last day I could do so and get my money back. I have not purchased a replacement yet as my choice is dependent on the outcome of this thread :-) I think there are a number of issues: + How reliable is DDS/DDS-2 (DAT) technology? + Is any one brand of DDS drive better or worse than another? (or 'Do the HP drives warrant their Freebsd warnings?') + Can anything be done to extend DDS drive life? + Is there a common failure mode for DDS? >From mail that I have received I am beginning to believe that the DDS mechanism, or more precisely the head, wears out and break down. I don't know if HP drives are better or worse than any others. That said, I have been put off the Sony SDT-7000 as 1) my problems with the unit supplied to me, 2) on the basis of replies, few seem to be in circulation (are sony users at bleeding edge?) and 3) I can't see how the high rotational speed of the SDT 7000 can do anything but degrade reliability (cf HP). Dave (dtsao@puc.edu) wrote: >If you can purchase the Sony 7000 for $40 more than the Sony 5000 DAT, and >the *only* difference is that the 7000's RPM is 8503 while the 5000's is >4000, would you buy the 7000? Is it as reliable and safe when running at >that speed? My HDD doesn't even come close! On the general subject of DAT reliability, phr@netcom.com (Paul Rubin) writes: >I have a C1533a now a little over 1 year old. I've had no problems >with it but my usage has been pretty light. Any DAT drive will >wear out after a year or so of heavy usage. DAT is built around >consumer audio media designed for low cost, and the mechanisms >are too fiddly to be really durable. Same goes for 8mm only more so. >If you want reliable backup and can pay for it, get DLT. Otherwise >DAT is the best bet. Unfortunately I can't afford DLT, so DAT it is . . Greg Lehey enquired of my setup: >> He really wasn't that clear about what didn't work for him, >> and it may be something silly like using audio grade tapes, >> which can't be written to (unless some DIP switch is set to >> a non-default position, which might have been the case for >> his HP drive). > >Yes, that's correct. It was one of the problems I was thinking of, >too. Let's wait for his reply. Here are my setup details: Hardware setup 1: Adaptec 2940 (non ultra) HP C1533A DDS-2 (internal, connected via adaptec internal cable). The DAT drive is the only device on the SCSI chain. Tapes which I used successfully on the C1533A: + HP DDS 60 metre. + Sony 90 metre computer grade DDS-2. Dip switch settings: + Compression enabled at power on, with host control. + Media recognition active. + Caution on hard error. + Parity on. + Data phase disc. + Truncate request sense off. + Variable block size mode. + SCSI id 3 Hardware setup 2: Unsuccesful Setup with sony SDT-7000 (connection as above). + SCSI id same as for HP DAT + DC disable (tried both ON and OFF) - what is this? + SCSI parity on. (both settings tried) + Termination on. (both settings tried) The Sony package which I received had evidence that it had been opened (a faulty return?). Problems with the sony were: - Excessive lacing and unlacing of the tape on boot up (it really seemed to be making a meal of it). - Inability to format Sony DDS-2 tape using the Adaptec EZ-SCSI utility: (read errors, tape removed from drive during format etc). - device I/O errors when trying to read a tar archive created by the HP and another DDS drive. Simon From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 23 19:22:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA06476 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 19:22:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA06471; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 19:22:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id NAA19559; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:51:49 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199612240321.NAA19559@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: DAT reliability In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961223225320.006855dc@pop.dial.pipex.com> from Simon Reading at "Dec 23, 96 10:56:02 pm" To: aat81@dial.pipex.com (Simon Reading) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:51:47 +1030 (CST) Cc: grog@lemis.de, se@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Simon Reading stands accused of saying: > In my original post: > >I had an HP C1533A DDS-2 drive which worked fine, but which I exchanged > for a sony SDT-7000 DDS-2 because of the reliability warnings given in the > FreeBSD Handbook. Unfortunately my sony drive is broken - I/O errors on > read, can't format tapes using the Adaptec EZ-SCSI utility etc. I don't understand this; you don't "format" DAT tapes. The sony units ignore the "erase" command because it makes no sense. Are you sure you're conditioning your DATs correctly? You will find that a tape that's been in storage should retensioned (wind to end of media, rewind), and must be at room temperature for best results. Instructions on this sort of thing are included with most decent blank tapes. We've been using and recommending to our customers the Sony SDT-5200 (DDS2, no compression) for over a year now, with no problems at all. Several of these units are operating in arctic/antarctic conditions, and there's one in a hut in Indonesia. We receive tapes from all of these sites on an occasional basis and, modulo conditioning shortcuts, have never had any trouble reading them. > Simon -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 23 20:55:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA08779 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 20:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA08773 for ; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 20:55:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vcOte-000QZ1C; Tue, 24 Dec 96 05:55 MET Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id FAA02885; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 05:47:40 +0100 (MET) From: grog@lemis.de Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199612240447.FAA02885@freebie.lemis.de> Subject: Re: DAT reliability In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961223225320.006855dc@pop.dial.pipex.com> from Simon Reading at "Dec 23, 96 10:56:02 pm" To: aat81@dial.pipex.com (Simon Reading) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 05:47:39 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hardware Users) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Simon Reading writes: > Thanks to those of you who are participating in this thread. > > In my original post: >> I had an HP C1533A DDS-2 drive which worked fine, but which I exchanged > for a sony SDT-7000 DDS-2 because of the reliability warnings given in the > FreeBSD Handbook. Unfortunately my sony drive is broken - I/O errors on > read, can't format tapes using the Adaptec EZ-SCSI utility etc. > > In this email, I explain what my setup was for both the HP and Sony DDS > drives. I RETURNED THE SONY TODAY because it was the last day I could do > so and get my money back. I have not purchased a replacement yet as my > choice is dependent on the outcome of this thread :-) > > I think there are a number of issues: >> How reliable is DDS/DDS-2 (DAT) technology? >> Is any one brand of DDS drive better or worse than another? > (or 'Do the HP drives warrant their Freebsd warnings?') >> Can anything be done to extend DDS drive life? >> Is there a common failure mode for DDS? > >> From mail that I have received I am beginning to believe that the DDS > mechanism, or more precisely the head, wears out and break down. Sure. That's valid for all tape drives. The real question is, how quickly? The jury's still out on that one. > I don't know if HP drives are better or worse than any others. That said, > I have been put off the Sony SDT-7000 as 1) my problems with the unit > supplied to me, 2) on the basis of replies, few seem to be in circulation > (are sony users at bleeding edge?) and 3) I can't see how the high > rotational speed of the SDT 7000 can do anything but degrade reliability > (cf HP). It can also improve performance. > Dave (dtsao@puc.edu) wrote: >> If you can purchase the Sony 7000 for $40 more than the Sony 5000 DAT, and >> the *only* difference is that the 7000's RPM is 8503 while the 5000's is >> 4000, would you buy the 7000? Is it as reliable and safe when running at >> that speed? My HDD doesn't even come close! > > On the general subject of DAT reliability, phr@netcom.com (Paul Rubin) writes: >> I have a C1533a now a little over 1 year old. I've had no problems >> with it but my usage has been pretty light. Any DAT drive will >> wear out after a year or so of heavy usage. DAT is built around >> consumer audio media designed for low cost, and the mechanisms >> are too fiddly to be really durable. Same goes for 8mm only more so. >> If you want reliable backup and can pay for it, get DLT. Otherwise >> DAT is the best bet. I don't know if I agree with that. Sure, it's built on the original DAT technology, but that doesn't make it a consumer grade article. Note that the estimated MTBF of the C1533A is 4 times that of the 35480A. They're obviously doing something there. > Unfortunately I can't afford DLT, so DAT it is . . > > Greg Lehey enquired of my setup: >>> He really wasn't that clear about what didn't work for him, >>> and it may be something silly like using audio grade tapes, >>> which can't be written to (unless some DIP switch is set to >>> a non-default position, which might have been the case for >>> his HP drive). >> >> Yes, that's correct. It was one of the problems I was thinking of, >> too. Let's wait for his reply. > > Here are my setup details: > > Hardware setup 1: > Adaptec 2940 (non ultra) > HP C1533A DDS-2 (internal, connected via adaptec internal cable). > The DAT drive is the only device on the SCSI chain. > > Tapes which I used successfully on the C1533A: >> HP DDS 60 metre. >> Sony 90 metre computer grade DDS-2. To the best of my knowledge, there ain't no such beast. The 90 metre tapes are all DDS-1. You need the much more expensive 120 metre tapes to get DDS-2. But at least you weren't using audio grade tapes. > Dip switch settings: >> Compression enabled at power on, with host control. >> Media recognition active. >> Caution on hard error. >> Parity on. >> Data phase disc. >> Truncate request sense off. >> Variable block size mode. >> SCSI id 3 > > Hardware setup 2: > > Unsuccesful Setup with sony SDT-7000 (connection as above). >> SCSI id same as for HP DAT >> DC disable (tried both ON and OFF) - what is this? Data compression. Unless you're exchanging data with somebody who doesn't have data compression, leave it on. >> SCSI parity on. (both settings tried) >> Termination on. (both settings tried) > > The Sony package which I received had evidence that it had been opened (a > faulty return?). >From what you say below, it's beginning to sound like it. > Problems with the sony were: > - Excessive lacing and unlacing of the tape on boot up (it really seemed to > be making a meal of it). Ah, yes, this sounds familiar. That's typically the way my 35480As died. Was this a brand new tape? I've had cases where a tape written on a bad drive can confuse a good drive. > - Inability to format Sony DDS-2 tape using the Adaptec EZ-SCSI utility: > (read errors, tape removed from drive during format etc). I don't understand this. DDS tapes don't need formatting. What did the documentation say on the subject? EZ-SCSI is a DOS utility, and you don't need it. Or are you running this under DOS? EZ-SCSI supports all tape drives, some of which need formatting, and I wouldn't put it past the program to run into trouble if you try to format a drive that doesn't support formatting. > - device I/O errors when trying to read a tar archive created by the HP and > another DDS drive. It's always better to give the error messages rather than just a statement like this. What were the errors? For example, my newly repaired Exabyte still shows the same problems :-( Dec 23 12:02:03 freebie /kernel: st1(aha0:5:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:10000 csi:0,0,0,13 asc:3,2 Excessive write errors Dec 23 12:02:04 freebie last message repeated 2 times Dec 23 12:02:05 freebie /kernel: st1(aha0:5:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:10000 csi:0,0,0,13 asc:3,2 Excessive write errors Dec 23 12:02:05 freebie /kernel: st1(aha0:5:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:10000 csi:0,0,0,13 asc:3,2 Excessive write errors Dec 23 12:02:05 freebie /kernel: st1(aha0:5:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:10000 csi:0,0,0,13 asc:3,2 Excessive write errors Dec 23 12:02:06 freebie /kernel: st1(aha0:5:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:10000 csi:0,0,0,13 asc:3,2 Excessive write errors Looking at the first item on your list, however, I think I'd agree that you do (did) have a defective drive. You will probably not have any problems with a replacement. Greg From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 24 07:09:14 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA23358 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 07:09:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from maelstrom.dial.pipex.net (maelstrom.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA23352; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 07:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaat81.dial.pipex.com by maelstrom.dial.pipex.net (8.8.3/) id PAA04897; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:08:51 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961224150632.00691884@pop.dial.pipex.com> X-Sender: aat81@pop.dial.pipex.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:08:04 +0000 To: Greg Lehey , Michael Smith From: Simon Reading Subject: Re: DAT reliability Cc: se@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 05:47 24/12/96 +0100, Greg Lehey wrote: >Simon Reading writes: >> On the general subject of DAT reliability, phr@netcom.com (Paul Rubin) writes: >>> I have a C1533a now a little over 1 year old. I've had no problems >>> with it but my usage has been pretty light. Any DAT drive will >>> wear out after a year or so of heavy usage. DAT is built around >>> consumer audio media designed for low cost, and the mechanisms >>> are too fiddly to be really durable. Same goes for 8mm only more so. >>> If you want reliable backup and can pay for it, get DLT. Otherwise >>> DAT is the best bet. > >I don't know if I agree with that. Sure, it's built on the original >DAT technology, but that doesn't make it a consumer grade article. >Note that the estimated MTBF of the C1533A is 4 times that of the >35480A. They're obviously doing something there. Mmm. I wonder what they _are_ doing? >> Problems with the sony were: >> - Excessive lacing and unlacing of the tape on boot up (it really seemed to >> be making a meal of it). >Ah, yes, this sounds familiar. That's typically the way my 35480As >died. Was this a brand new tape? I've had cases where a tape written >on a bad drive can confuse a good drive. Brand new Sony 90m DDS tape. >> Tapes which I used successfully on the C1533A: >>> HP DDS 60 metre. >>> Sony 90 metre computer grade DDS-2. >To the best of my knowledge, there ain't no such beast. The 90 metre >tapes are all DDS-1. You need the much more expensive 120 metre tapes >to get DDS-2. But at least you weren't using audio grade tapes. Quite correct. 90m tapes are DDS. On the box it said compatible with DDS-2, which is where my typo came from. I am using 90m tapes as 1. I don't have a need (yet) to store 4gb, 2. 120m tapes are thinner, 3. 120m tapes cost four times as much. >> - Inability to format Sony DDS-2 tape using the Adaptec EZ-SCSI utility: >> (read errors, tape removed from drive during format etc). >I don't understand this. DDS tapes don't need formatting. What did >the documentation say on the subject? EZ-SCSI is a DOS utility, and >you don't need it. Or are you running this under DOS? EZ-SCSI >supports all tape drives, some of which need formatting, and I >wouldn't put it past the program to run into trouble if you try to >format a drive that doesn't support formatting. My previous experience was using a Colorado Trakker 700 (and nobody dare tell me that was a fast and reliable product :-). The trakker did require formatting, about 3-6 hours of it, to be precise. My Adaptec 2940 card comes with Adaptec Backup on the EZ-SCSI disc. When using this utility under Windows 95, I formatted DDS tapes before initiating a backup. I would guess that this 'formatting' action would merely write an empty volume catalog to the tape (containing the name of the tape etc.) which would mean something to the Adaptec Backup application itself (hence this operation only took 90 seconds) and might include retensioning. With the HP C1533A, there were no errors when formatting (writing directory info) to the tape. With the Sony SDT7000, it gave errors gallore. > >> - device I/O errors when trying to read a tar archive created by the HP and >> another DDS drive. > >It's always better to give the error messages rather than just a >statement like this. What were the errors? For example, my newly >repaired Exabyte still shows the same problems :-( > >Dec 23 12:02:03 freebie /kernel: st1(aha0:5:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:10000 csi:0,0,0,13 asc:3,2 Excessive write errors >Dec 23 12:02:04 freebie last message repeated 2 times Hmm. Where did these diagnostics get output? I executed tar from the console and was told 'device I/O error', _NOTHING_ more than that! Unfortunately I can't try it again, since I no longer have the drive ;-) Is there a kernel config option for specifying the level of diagnostics? >Looking at the first item on your list, however, I think I'd agree >that you do (did) have a defective drive. You will probably not have >any problems with a replacement. You're probably right. However, my faith in the Sony (which incidentally was shipped without any installation instructions) has been dented. Michael Smith wrote: >Simon Reading stands accused of saying: >> In my original post: >> >I had an HP C1533A DDS-2 drive which worked fine, but which I exchanged >> for a sony SDT-7000 DDS-2 because of the reliability warnings given in the >> FreeBSD Handbook. Unfortunately my sony drive is broken - I/O errors on >> read, can't format tapes using the Adaptec EZ-SCSI utility etc. > >I don't understand this; you don't "format" DAT tapes. The sony >units ignore the "erase" command because it makes no sense. See the reply to Greg above. >Are you sure you're conditioning your DATs correctly? You will find >that a tape that's been in storage should retensioned (wind to end of >media, rewind), and must be at room temperature for best results. >Instructions on this sort of thing are included with most decent >blank tapes. The tapes I have used were at 21C, normal pressure and humidity. I did not retension the tape (unless this was done as part of the Adaptec Backup 'format' action), but I had used them successfully on the HP C1533, no problems. I will retension new tapes in future. No instructions were provided with HP or Sony DDS cartridges. >We've been using and recommending to our customers the Sony SDT-5200 >(DDS2, no compression) for over a year now, with no problems at all. >Several of these units are operating in arctic/antarctic conditions, >and there's one in a hut in Indonesia. We receive tapes from all of >these sites on an occasional basis and, modulo conditioning shortcuts, >have never had any trouble reading them. I doubt whether my problems were to do with conditioning, I am sure that my SDT-7000 was faulty. Do you have any experience of the SDT-7000? The SDT-7000 has a drum rotational speed twice that of the SDT-5200 (as Greg noted, to enhance performance). Running a drive at a higher speed can only make it more susceptible to mechanical failure. I would guess that the 5200 has been out for longer and that any bugs/problems would be more likely to be observed/sorted out than any with the 7000. The small price difference between the two models make me think that there has been little change in the funamental mechanism design and that 8000rpm may be too fast to transport the tape using the existing mechanism. Regards, Simon PS I hope Greg has more success with his exabyte drive. From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 24 09:28:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA26916 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:28:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from glacier.cold.org (glacier.cold.org [206.81.134.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA26909 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by glacier.cold.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27929 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:29:01 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:29:00 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: freebsd-hardware@freeBSD.org Subject: AHA 2940UW? Linux works.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I REALLY need help with this, our server is continually rebooting since we installed the AHA 2940UW controller and new UltraSCSI drive. It is not a heavilly loaded system, but it does run a database system that NEEDS to syncronize its database before shutting down. Every time this system reboots we loose critical data to the last backup. This is flat out unacceptable. I really like FreeBSD much more than Linux, but at this point others in the group are suggesting we move to Linux because they know this hardware works fine in Linux. In my experience I've never known a system to simply reboot when it was a hardware problem (generally if its a hardware problem it simply freezes up or does not work at all). This is working for two to three days when suddenly *wham* reboot. Help?? -Brandon Gillespie (If anybody responded before I appologize, I was not on this list so I did not see the replies). From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 24 10:25:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA28548 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:25:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com (bacall.lodgenet.com [205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA28543 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:25:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA08016; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:24:10 -0600 Received: from garbo.lodgenet.com(204.124.123.250) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma008014; Tue Dec 24 12:24:04 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [10.0.11.30]) by garbo.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA24997; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:24:33 -0600 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA04322; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:25:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612241825.MAA04322@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Brandon Gillespie cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AHA 2940UW? Linux works.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:29:00 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:25:18 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brandon Gillespie writes: >I REALLY need help with this, our server is continually rebooting since we >installed the AHA 2940UW controller and new UltraSCSI drive. It is not a Have a look at ahc(4), /usr/src/sys/pci/aic7870.c, etc. There are serveral options to play with. The 2940's got lots of knobs in the bootup menu too, one is to disable ultra, maybe that'll do it... ahc(4) warns about some drives (Quantum?) not working properly if the speed is set to wide open. I just got a QuickTech motherboard with on-board aic7860; it's not quite as good as the stand alone version, but it seems ok. I haven't done a `make world' yet, but several kernel compiles. What version of FBSD are you running? I've got problems using 2.1.5 with a Quantum ultra scsi driver on the ncr driver... it won't even boot. But -current/2.2 works fine. It's not a problem because we're going to use 2.2 anyway... > >-Brandon Gillespie > eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com http://rrnet.com/~erich erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 24 10:33:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA28807 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:33:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from glacier.cold.org (glacier.cold.org [206.81.134.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA28802 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:33:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by glacier.cold.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA28024; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:33:20 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:33:20 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: "Eric L. Hernes" cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AHA 2940UW? Linux works.. In-Reply-To: <199612241825.MAA04322@jake.lodgenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Eric L. Hernes wrote: > Brandon Gillespie writes: > >I REALLY need help with this, our server is continually rebooting since we > >installed the AHA 2940UW controller and new UltraSCSI drive. It is not a > > Have a look at ahc(4), /usr/src/sys/pci/aic7870.c, etc. There are serveral > options to play with. > > The 2940's got lots of knobs in the bootup menu too, one is > to disable ultra, maybe that'll do it... ahc(4) warns > about some drives (Quantum?) not working properly if the speed is set > to wide open. > > I just got a QuickTech motherboard with on-board aic7860; it's not quite > as good as the stand alone version, but it seems ok. I haven't done > a `make world' yet, but several kernel compiles. > > What version of FBSD are you running? I've got problems using 2.1.5 with > a Quantum ultra scsi driver on the ncr driver... it won't even boot. But > -current/2.2 works fine. It's not a problem because we're going to use > 2.2 anyway... FreeBSD 2.1.6. The controller is AHA 2940UW and the drive I have on it is a Seagate Hawk UltraSCSI 1.05 GB (ST30155N). I'll peek at the various options.. -Brandon Gillespie From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 24 10:50:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA29284 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA29277 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vcbvS-000QagC; Tue, 24 Dec 96 19:50 MET Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id TAA00729; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 19:03:15 +0100 (MET) From: grog@lemis.de Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199612241803.TAA00729@freebie.lemis.de> Subject: Re: DAT reliability In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961224150632.00691884@pop.dial.pipex.com> from Simon Reading at "Dec 24, 96 03:08:04 pm" To: aat81@dial.pipex.com (Simon Reading) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 19:03:15 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hardware Users) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Simon Reading writes: > At 05:47 24/12/96 +0100, Greg Lehey wrote: >> Simon Reading writes: >> On the general subject of DAT reliability, phr@netcom.com (Paul Rubin) > writes: >> I have a C1533a now a little over 1 year old. I've had no problems >> with it but my usage has been pretty light. Any DAT drive will >> wear out after a year or so of heavy usage. DAT is built around >> consumer audio media designed for low cost, and the mechanisms >> are too fiddly to be really durable. Same goes for 8mm only more so. >> If you want reliable backup and can pay for it, get DLT. Otherwise >> DAT is the best bet. >> >> I don't know if I agree with that. Sure, it's built on the original >> DAT technology, but that doesn't make it a consumer grade article. >> Note that the estimated MTBF of the C1533A is 4 times that of the >> 35480A. They're obviously doing something there. > > Mmm. I wonder what they _are_ doing? Lots of things, I would imagine. For example, making the drums out of something more durable. Stefan said (in private mail) that Sony have a special technology for the 7000, he thinks something like an air cushion under the tape. >> Problems with the sony were: >> - Excessive lacing and unlacing of the tape on boot up (it really seemed to >> be making a meal of it). >> Ah, yes, this sounds familiar. That's typically the way my 35480As >> died. Was this a brand new tape? I've had cases where a tape written >> on a bad drive can confuse a good drive. > > Brand new Sony 90m DDS tape. Seems to eliminate that one. >> Tapes which I used successfully on the C1533A: >> HP DDS 60 metre. >> Sony 90 metre computer grade DDS-2. >> >> To the best of my knowledge, there ain't no such beast. The 90 metre >> tapes are all DDS-1. You need the much more expensive 120 metre tapes >> to get DDS-2. But at least you weren't using audio grade tapes. > > Quite correct. 90m tapes are DDS. On the box it said compatible with > DDS-2, which is where my typo came from. I am using 90m tapes as 1. I > don't have a need (yet) to store 4gb, 2. 120m tapes are thinner, 3. 120m > tapes cost four times as much. I'll go for (1) and (3). I haven't seen any problems with the thickness of 120m tapes. I use both in the C1533A (and in the Archive changer that I have just bought). >> - Inability to format Sony DDS-2 tape using the Adaptec EZ-SCSI utility: >> (read errors, tape removed from drive during format etc). >> I don't understand this. DDS tapes don't need formatting. What did >> the documentation say on the subject? EZ-SCSI is a DOS utility, and >> you don't need it. Or are you running this under DOS? EZ-SCSI >> supports all tape drives, some of which need formatting, and I >> wouldn't put it past the program to run into trouble if you try to >> format a drive that doesn't support formatting. > > My previous experience was using a Colorado Trakker 700 (and nobody dare > tell me that was a fast and reliable product :-). The trakker did require > formatting, about 3-6 hours of it, to be precise. My Adaptec 2940 card > comes with Adaptec Backup on the EZ-SCSI disc. When using this utility > under Windows 95, I formatted DDS tapes before initiating a backup. I > would guess that this 'formatting' action would merely write an empty > volume catalog to the tape (containing the name of the tape etc.) which > would mean something to the Adaptec Backup application itself (hence this > operation only took 90 seconds) and might include retensioning. DDS tapes don't have a volume catalogue. I suppose the Adaptec backup might use it anyway, which IMO is another reason not to use it. It really destroys interchangability. > With the HP C1533A, there were no errors when formatting (writing directory > info) to the tape. > With the Sony SDT7000, it gave errors gallore. It would be nice to know the messages, but considering it could hardly load the tape, I suspect that they wouldn't say too much. >> - device I/O errors when trying to read a tar archive created by the HP and >> another DDS drive. >> >> It's always better to give the error messages rather than just a >> statement like this. What were the errors? For example, my newly >> repaired Exabyte still shows the same problems :-( >> >> Dec 23 12:02:03 freebie /kernel: st1(aha0:5:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:10000 > csi:0,0,0,13 asc:3,2 Excessive write errors >> Dec 23 12:02:04 freebie last message repeated 2 times > > Hmm. Where did these diagnostics get output? I executed tar from the > console and was told 'device I/O error', _NOTHING_ more than that! > Unfortunately I can't try it again, since I no longer have the drive ;-) > Is there a kernel config option for specifying the level of diagnostics? They should have appeared on the console. They're output by the system to syslogd, and syslogd writes them whereever you tell it. Check /var/log/messages, whence I extracted these messages. >> Looking at the first item on your list, however, I think I'd agree >> that you do (did) have a defective drive. You will probably not have >> any problems with a replacement. > > You're probably right. However, my faith in the Sony (which incidentally > was shipped without any installation instructions) has been dented. Don't be too sure that that wasn't your retailer. They frequently sell things in two forms: with tape, software, cables and lots of packing, or just the naked drive. I have had problems with Sony for the way they have to do things differently (like putting the SCSI connector in the wrong way round, so you have to twist the cable to fit), and I thought the drive itself could have more written on it, but to my recollection the drive I was given had instructions. > Michael Smith wrote: >> Simon Reading stands accused of saying: >> In my original post: >> I had an HP C1533A DDS-2 drive which worked fine, but which I exchanged >> for a sony SDT-7000 DDS-2 because of the reliability warnings given in the >> FreeBSD Handbook. Unfortunately my sony drive is broken - I/O errors on >> read, can't format tapes using the Adaptec EZ-SCSI utility etc. >> >> I don't understand this; you don't "format" DAT tapes. The sony >> units ignore the "erase" command because it makes no sense. > > See the reply to Greg above. > >> Are you sure you're conditioning your DATs correctly? You will find >> that a tape that's been in storage should retensioned (wind to end of >> media, rewind), and must be at room temperature for best results. >> Instructions on this sort of thing are included with most decent >> blank tapes. > > The tapes I have used were at 21C, normal pressure and humidity. > I did not retension the tape (unless this was done as part of the Adaptec > Backup 'format' action), but I had used them successfully on the HP C1533, > no problems. I will retension new tapes in future. Mike wrote this before you mentioned the load problems. I think they put the whole thing into a very different perspective. > No instructions were provided with HP or Sony DDS cartridges. I just opened a brand new HP DDS-2 cartridge (120m). On the back of the label foil there are pictures suggesting that you should tape a red cross to the cartridge and then attack it with a horseshoe, that you should wobble the read-protect tab backwards and fowards while inserting, and that you should lay a thermometer on the cartridge. Could be I'm misinterpreting this, but there is no text to go with it. In addition, they write: * Cleaning your DDC drive with HP's DDS Cleaning Cartridges is important to maintaing the performance of your drive. * Recommended cleaning frequency: (rather silly table) Another 4 points about cleaning the drive. Nothing about retensioning. One point to you. >> We've been using and recommending to our customers the Sony SDT-5200 >> (DDS2, no compression) for over a year now, with no problems at all. >> Several of these units are operating in arctic/antarctic conditions, >> and there's one in a hut in Indonesia. We receive tapes from all of >> these sites on an occasional basis and, modulo conditioning shortcuts, >> have never had any trouble reading them. > > I doubt whether my problems were to do with conditioning, I am sure that my > SDT-7000 was faulty. > > Do you have any experience of the SDT-7000? The SDT-7000 has a drum > rotational speed twice that of the SDT-5200 (as Greg noted, to enhance > performance). Running a drive at a higher speed can only make it more > susceptible to mechanical failure. I would guess that the 5200 has been > out for longer and that any bugs/problems would be more likely to be > observed/sorted out than any with the 7000. The small price difference > between the two models make me think that there has been little change in > the funamental mechanism design and that 8000rpm may be too fast to > transport the tape using the existing mechanism. I honestly don't think so. The C1533A rotates at 5400 rpm, significantly faster than the 35480A, and despite that it's more reliable. Remember that they're learning things about the drives as they build them. HP's suggested MTBF of 200,000 hours for the C1533A vs. 50,000 for the 35480A suggests that that's the case. From what I've heard, I would think that the SDT-7000 might just be the best DDS-2 drive available, and that you've just been given a dud. I wouldn't let that experience shake your confidence completely: I'd go back to the dealer and say, "OK, that device may have been a dud. Give me another, in original packing, and I'll try it again". > PS I hope Greg has more success with his exabyte drive. So do I :-) But I fear the guys who repaired it fixed the wrong problem. They assumed a drum failure, though what I've heard through other channels (the Exabyte specialist at Siemens-Nixdorf), drum failures are relatively uncommon. In case anybody out there recognizes the problem: When I start a backup, everything runs fine. By observation, the drive writes without any backing up (i.e. backtracking and re-reading or writing). After about 30 to 50 minutes, it starts backing up, and shortly after that it can't recover the data even after 20 backups, and the backup aborts. I've tried several tapes, including brand new ones, and of course I have cleaned the drive with an original Exabyte cleaning cartridge. Greg From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 24 11:00:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA29618 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA29612 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:00:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA09132; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:59:58 -0800 (PST) To: Brandon Gillespie cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AHA 2940UW? Linux works.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:29:00 MST." Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:59:58 -0800 Message-ID: <9128.851453998@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I REALLY need help with this, our server is continually rebooting since we > installed the AHA 2940UW controller and new UltraSCSI drive. It is not a There is next to no chance that someone will find and fix your problem during the xmas holidays. Just zilch. Justin is off at Christmas with his folks, I don't know anything about the SCSI subsystem, anyone with any kind of life at all (and I do not count myself) is off DOING something right now and will be until the 2nd of January or so. That's life during the holidays. It would therefore make a lot more sense for you to either find a more promising version of FreeBSD on this system (and I don't know if upgrading/downgrading will affect your symptoms, but it's certainly worth a try) or, indeed, just migrate it to Linux. If that solution works then it works, and that's the bottom line. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 26 04:23:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA18726 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 04:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from saturn.apana.org.au (root@saturn.apana.org.au [202.12.90.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id EAA18721; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 04:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by saturn.apana.org.au id m0vd6ym-0000XkC (Debian /\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.37); Thu, 26 Dec 96 14:59 EST Received: (from andymac@localhost) by bullseye.apana.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA02915; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:34:12 +1100 Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:34:12 +1100 (EST) From: Andrew MacIntyre To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Problems with HP T4000s tape drive Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have just acquired a HP T4000s tape drive for my primary FreeBSD machine, which is a mail/news/file/print server for my home net. However, it doesn't want to do anything useful :-( (commands & results below). The drive is connected to the SCSI bus between the HD & CD-ROM, and the terminating resistors were removed. I am not aware of any other system "funnies" which might be attributable to poor SCSI cabling or bad termination. I notice from the boot probe (see below) that the drive appears to have v1.05 firmware, compared to another recent posting to the list having v1.06. The system is stock 2.1.0 installed from CD-ROM. I have the 2.1.5 CD-ROM (have held off installing on this system until I could back it up adequately), and plan on snarfing a 2.1.6 CD-ROM as soon as they become available here. Any thoughts/advice appreciated & compliments of the season to all. What follows are the results of my attempts to use the drive + the system config & boot transcript. All commands issued as root. An "mt status" results in: ---8<---8<---8<--- Present Mode: Density = 0x45 Blocksize = 512 bytes ---------available modes--------- Mode 0: Density = 0x00 Blocksize variable Mode 1: Density = 0x00 Blocksize variable Mode 2: Density = 0x00 Blocksize variable Mode 3: Density = 0x00 Blocksize variable ---8<---8<---8<--- with the console showing: ---8<---8<---8<--- Dec 26 12:13:25 bullseye /kernel: st0(ncr0:4:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB Dec 26 12:13:25 bullseye /kernel: st0: Cannot set selected mode ---8<---8<---8<--- An "mt rewind" is rewarded with tape activity, with the console showing: ---8<---8<---8<--- Dec 26 12:16:12 bullseye /kernel: st0(ncr0:4:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB Dec 26 12:16:12 bullseye /kernel: st0: Cannot set selected mode ---8<---8<---8<--- A "dump 0ubBf 32 1200000 /dev/nrst0 /usr" fails: ---8<---8<---8<--- DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Thu Dec 26 12:21:33 1996 DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: the epoch DUMP: Dumping /dev/rsd0s1g (/usr) to /dev/nrst0 DUMP: mapping (Pass I) [regular files] DUMP: mapping (Pass II) [directories] DUMP: estimated 264124 tape blocks on 0.22 tape(s). DUMP: dumping (Pass III) [directories] DUMP: End of tape detected DUMP: Closing /dev/nrst0 DUMP: Change Volumes: Mount volume #2 DUMP: Is the new volume mounted and ready to go?: ("yes" or "no") DUMP: Do you want to abort?: ("yes" or "no") DUMP: The ENTIRE dump is aborted. ---8<---8<---8<--- with the console showing: ---8<---8<---8<--- Dec 26 12:21:36 bullseye /kernel: st0(ncr0:4:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB Dec 26 12:21:36 bullseye /kernel: st0: Cannot set selected mode Dec 26 12:21:36 bullseye /kernel: st0: oops not queued Dec 26 12:21:37 bullseye last message repeated 2 times Dec 26 12:21:37 bullseye /kernel: st0(ncr0:4:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB Dec 26 12:21:37 bullseye /kernel: st0: Cannot set selected mode ---8<---8<---8<--- System configuration: ---8<---8<---8<--- # # BULLSEYE # # hardware: Asus PVI-486SP3 rev 1.8 mbd, # w/ v3.04 BIOS (Award 4.50g) & NCR v3.07 SDMS # (has UMC 8669F Multi-IO chip, not SMC :-( ) # Intel DX4/100 Overdrive CPU # 16MB 60ns parity FPM RAM # Asus SC200 SCSI controller # - Quantum Capella 2.2G HD (0) # - HP Colorado T4000s tape drive (4) # - Toshiba XM-3401 CD-ROM drive (5) # Accton EN1666 ethernet card # TLI ET4000/W32 ISA video card # machine "i386" #cpu "I386_CPU" cpu "I486_CPU" #cpu "I586_CPU" ident BULLSEYE maxusers 32 #options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=15" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device #options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 #tape ft0 at fdc0 drive 2 #controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr #disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 #disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 #controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr #disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 #disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 #options ATAPI #Enable ATAPI support for IDE bus #device wcd0 #IDE CD-ROM controller ncr0 #controller ahc0 #controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector btintr #controller uha0 at isa? port "IO_UHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector uhaintr #controller ahc1 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahcintr #controller ahb0 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahbintr #controller aha0 at isa? port "IO_AHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector ahaintr #controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector aicintr #controller nca0 at isa? port 0x1f88 bio irq 10 vector ncaintr #controller nca1 at isa? port 0x350 bio irq 5 vector ncaintr #controller sea0 at isa? bio irq 5 iomem 0xc8000 iosiz 0x2000 vector seaintr controller scbus0 device sd0 device st0 device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows #device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 5 drq 1 vector wtintr #device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 10 vector mcdintr #device mcd1 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector mcdintr #controller matcd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio #device scd0 at isa? port 0x360 bio # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver #device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint #options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" # pcvt running on FreeBSD 2.1 #options XSERVER # include code for XFree86 device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr #device sio2 at isa? port "IO_COM3" tty irq 5 vector siointr #device sio3 at isa? port "IO_COM4" tty irq 9 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr #device lpt1 at isa? port? tty #device lpt2 at isa? port? tty #device mse0 at isa? port 0x23c tty irq 5 vector mseintr # Order is important here due to intrusive probes, do *not* alphabetize # this list of network interfaces until the probes have been fixed. # Right now it appears that the ie0 must be probed before ep0. See # revision 1.20 of this file. #device de0 #device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr device ed1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device ie0 at isa? port 0x360 net irq 7 iomem 0xd0000 vector ieintr #device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr #device ix0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz 32768 vector ixintr #device le0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 vector le_intr #device lnc0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device lnc1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector zeintr #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 vector zpintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device sl 2 # ijppp uses tun instead of ppp device pseudo-device ppp 2 pseudo-device tun 2 pseudo-device pty 64 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's ---8<---8<---8<--- Boot transcript (taken from /var/log/messages): ---8<---8<---8<--- Dec 25 11:14:39 bullseye /kernel: FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE #0: Thu Jul 18 21:12:56 EST 1996 Dec 25 11:14:39 bullseye /kernel: root@bullseye.apana.org.au:/usr/src/sys/compile/BULLSEYE Dec 25 11:14:40 bullseye /kernel: CPU: i486 DX4 (486-class CPU) Dec 25 11:14:40 bullseye /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x480 Stepping=0 Dec 25 11:14:40 bullseye /kernel: Features=0x3 Dec 25 11:14:40 bullseye /kernel: real memory = 16777216 (16384K bytes) Dec 25 11:14:40 bullseye /kernel: avail memory = 14954496 (14604K bytes) Dec 25 11:14:41 bullseye /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: Dec 25 11:14:41 bullseye /kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard Dec 25 11:14:41 bullseye /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> Dec 25 11:14:41 bullseye /kernel: ed1 at 0x300-0x31f irq 5 on isa Dec 25 11:14:41 bullseye /kernel: ed1: address 00:00:e8:13:eb:57, type NE2000 (16 bit) Dec 25 11:14:41 bullseye /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Dec 25 11:14:41 bullseye /kernel: sio0: type 16550A Dec 25 11:14:41 bullseye /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Dec 25 11:14:42 bullseye /kernel: sio1: type 16550A Dec 25 11:14:42 bullseye /kernel: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa Dec 25 11:14:42 bullseye /kernel: lpt0: Interrupt-driven port Dec 25 11:14:42 bullseye /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface Dec 25 11:14:42 bullseye /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Dec 25 11:14:42 bullseye /kernel: fdc0: NEC 72065B Dec 25 11:14:42 bullseye /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in Dec 25 11:14:42 bullseye /kernel: npx0 on motherboard Dec 25 11:14:43 bullseye /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface Dec 25 11:14:43 bullseye /kernel: Probing for devices on the PCI bus: Dec 25 11:14:43 bullseye /kernel: chip0 rev 49 on pci0:5 Dec 25 11:14:44 bullseye /kernel: ncr0 rev 1 int a irq 12 on pci0:12 Dec 25 11:14:44 bullseye /kernel: ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle Dec 25 11:14:44 bullseye /kernel: (ncr0:0:0): "QUANTUM VP32210 81H8" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 Dec 25 11:14:44 bullseye /kernel: sd0(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access Dec 25 11:14:44 bullseye /kernel: sd0(ncr0:0:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. Dec 25 11:14:44 bullseye /kernel: 2103MB (4308352 512 byte sectors) Dec 25 11:14:44 bullseye /kernel: (ncr0:4:0): "HP T4000s 1.05" type 1 removable SCSI 2 Dec 25 11:14:44 bullseye /kernel: st0(ncr0:4:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x0, drive empty Dec 25 11:14:44 bullseye /kernel: (ncr0:5:0): "TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-3401TA 3593" type 5 removable SCSI 2 Dec 25 11:14:44 bullseye /kernel: cd0(ncr0:5:0): CD-ROM Dec 25 11:14:44 bullseye /kernel: cd0(ncr0:5:0): asynchronous. Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: cd present.[298166 x 2048 byte records] Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0(ncr0:4:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0: Cannot set selected modest0: oops not queued Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0: oops not queued Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0: oops not queued Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0(ncr0:4:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0: Cannot set selected mode Dec 25 11:14:42 bullseye lpd[99]: restarted Dec 25 11:14:48 bullseye innd: ME descriptors 64 Dec 25 11:14:48 bullseye innd: ME outgoing 51 Dec 25 11:14:49 bullseye innd: ME ccsetup control:11 Dec 25 11:14:49 bullseye innd: ME lcsetup localconn:13 Dec 25 11:14:49 bullseye innd: ME rcsetup remconn:4 Dec 25 11:14:49 bullseye innd: saturn opened saturn:15:file Dec 25 11:14:49 bullseye innd: f243.n620 opened f243.n620:16:file Dec 25 11:14:49 bullseye innd: OVERVIEW! spawned OVERVIEW!:18:proc:182 Dec 25 11:14:49 bullseye innd: ME starting ---8<---8<---8<--- The tape devices are as follows: crw-r----- 2 root operator 14, 1 Dec 26 12:21 /dev/nrst0 crw-r----- 2 root operator 14, 1 Dec 26 12:21 /dev/nrst0.0 crw-r----- 1 root operator 14, 5 Jan 14 1996 /dev/nrst0.1 crw-r----- 1 root operator 14, 9 Jan 14 1996 /dev/nrst0.2 crw-r----- 1 root operator 14, 13 Jan 14 1996 /dev/nrst0.3 crw-r----- 2 root operator 14, 0 Dec 26 11:44 /dev/rst0 crw-r----- 2 root operator 14, 0 Dec 26 11:44 /dev/rst0.0 crw-r----- 1 root operator 14, 4 Jan 14 1996 /dev/rst0.1 crw-r----- 1 root operator 14, 8 Jan 14 1996 /dev/rst0.2 crw-r----- 1 root operator 14, 12 Jan 14 1996 /dev/rst0.3 crw------- 1 root wheel 14, 536870912 Jan 14 1996 /dev/rst0.ctl crw-rw---- 1 root operator 14, 3 Jan 14 1996 /dev/st0ctl.0 crw-rw---- 1 root operator 14, 7 Jan 14 1996 /dev/st0ctl.1 crw-rw---- 1 root operator 14, 11 Jan 14 1996 /dev/st0ctl.2 crw-rw---- 1 root operator 14, 15 Jan 14 1996 /dev/st0ctl.3 -- Andrew I MacIntyre "These thoughts are mine alone..." E-mail: andrew.macintyre@aba.gov.au (work) | Snail: PO Box 370 andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au (play) | Belconnen ACT 2616 Fido: Andrew MacIntyre, 3:620/243.18 | Australia From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 26 08:56:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA27361 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:56:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen.HiWAAY.net (max1-80.HiWAAY.net [208.147.145.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA27346 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:56:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen.HiWAAY.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nexgen.HiWAAY.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02014; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 19:10:08 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612260110.TAA02014@nexgen.HiWAAY.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Brandon Gillespie cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: AHA 2940UW? Linux works.. In-reply-to: Message from Brandon Gillespie of "Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:29:00 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 19:10:08 -0600 Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I REALLY need help with this, our server is continually rebooting since we > installed the AHA 2940UW controller and new UltraSCSI drive. It is not a > heavilly loaded system, but it does run a database system that NEEDS to > syncronize its database before shutting down. Every time this system > reboots we loose critical data to the last backup. This is flat out > unacceptable. I really like FreeBSD much more than Linux, but at this > point others in the group are suggesting we move to Linux because they > know this hardware works fine in Linux. In my experience I've never known > a system to simply reboot when it was a hardware problem (generally if its > a hardware problem it simply freezes up or does not work at all). This is > working for two to three days when suddenly *wham* reboot. I recently had "system crash and reboot with hardware SCSI problems." I read the followups and didn't see any mention of what MB is being used. Recently I couldn't pass up an opportunity to buy a PCI MB w/ AMD 5x86/133 for $99. Paid $17 more for 256k extra cache. This was to upgrade my 486DX33 FreeBSD system at work. Took this machine (the one I'm on now) down to 48M from 80M and pulled my 2nd 2940 out, and put it on the new MB. (Hint: you are supposed to be laughing, I am, $200 of memory and a $150 controller, another $250 of SCSI drives, on a $116 MB/CPU). Anyhow, FreeBSD 2.1.5 crashed under heavy SCSI usage. Upgraded to 2.2-current, then 3.0-current, upgraded Adaptec BIOS from 1.10 to 1.16. No change. Compared GENERIC against my config file and tried all the AHC options. Crash usually said something like, "Panic: Page Missing". Finally figured out the cache on the MB was the single cause of my crashes. Later found a reference that knew everything there was to know about this cheapie MB: . Thought I'd tried both WB and WT cache modes, but after reading the above page I got brave (or bored), put the cache back in, tried WT cahce mode, and its been running a month or so w/o any SCSI problems. Interesting thing about this problem was iozone couldn't make the system fail, "make world" with the source/obj on a SCSI drive was one of the best ways to crash (boot disk and running system are IDE). Another way to crash was to put a swap partition on a SCSI disk, but this was too good of a way to crash the system. My problem was hardware. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 26 15:29:45 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA16753 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:29:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (cisco-ts13-line11.uoregon.edu [128.223.150.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA16744; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:29:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA00303; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:28:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:28:58 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White Reply-To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu To: Andrew MacIntyre cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems with HP T4000s tape drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 26 Dec 1996, Andrew MacIntyre wrote: > I have just acquired a HP T4000s tape drive for my primary FreeBSD > machine, which is a mail/news/file/print server for my home net. > > However, it doesn't want to do anything useful :-( (commands & results > below). See the Handbook section 10.5.9 on how to properly initialize this tape. > Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0(ncr0:4:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB > Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0: Cannot set selected modest0: oops not queued > Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0: oops not queued > Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0: oops not queued > Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0(ncr0:4:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB > Dec 25 11:14:45 bullseye /kernel: st0: Cannot set selected mode This is interesting. Your NCR doesn't seem to appreciate the tape. You might verify that your cable is okay and termination correct. Remember, termination at the ends of the chain only. The NCR will terminate itself properly; make sure the last thing in the chain is terminated and that nothing else is. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 26 20:47:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA01562 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:47:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA01557; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:47:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612270447.UAA01557@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Brandon Gillespie cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AHA 2940UW? Linux works.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:29:00 MST." Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:47:40 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Linux uses a ported version of FreeBSD's aic7xxx driver. If the driver is really the culpret I would expect the results to be much the same regardless of which OS you use. I am the author of the driver, but I cannot help you unless I know what the console messages are and what the panic message is. Please install a serial console to a stable machine with a scroll back buffer so that you can capture what happens before the machine reboots. Even if you do get me this information, I cannot promise immediate action on this problem. I can't do anything about it until at least the 1st. of the new year and even then I will be extremely busy. I can, however, promise that all of my free time will be devoted to aic7xxx driver issues until your and others problems are solved. __ Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Dec 28 01:30:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA04503 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 01:30:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms1.nwla.com (root@NS.NWLA.COM [207.22.207.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA04497 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 01:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from dial1.nwla.com (dial1.nwla.com [207.22.207.20]) by ms1.nwla.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA07061 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:41:45 -0600 Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:41:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199612281041.EAA07061@ms1.nwla.com> X-Sender: ewhite@ms1.nwla.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org From: Eddie White Subject: cpu selection Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk a local hardware vendor has suggested to stay away from the AMD K-5 for linux; he says he has had a lot of problems. does anyone know this to be a valid suggestion for freebsd as well? has anyone had any experience running freebsd on IBM Aptiva's A90 or A92? these are discontinued boxes, but available on the refirb market (intel cpu's.) thanks, eddie From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Dec 28 06:20:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA13186 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 06:20:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA13181 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 06:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id AAA01282; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 00:50:40 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199612281420.AAA01282@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: cpu selection In-Reply-To: <199612281041.EAA07061@ms1.nwla.com> from Eddie White at "Dec 28, 96 04:41:45 am" To: ewhite@ms1.nwla.com (Eddie White) Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 00:50:39 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eddie White stands accused of saying: > a local hardware vendor has suggested to stay away from the AMD K-5 for linux; > he says he has had a lot of problems. does anyone know this to be a valid > suggestion for freebsd as well? We're using the K5-PR100's with no problem at all; very cost-effective against the P120 (the only other low-end Pentium-class CPU you can get around here just now). > eddie -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Dec 28 22:21:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA16064 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA16059 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:21:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA00617; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:21:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199612290621.WAA00617@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: AHA 2940UW? Linux works.. In-Reply-To: from Brandon Gillespie at "Dec 24, 96 10:29:00 am" To: brandon@glacier.cold.org (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:21:18 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I REALLY need help with this, our server is continually rebooting since we > installed the AHA 2940UW controller and new UltraSCSI drive. It is not a > heavilly loaded system, but it does run a database system that NEEDS to > syncronize its database before shutting down. Every time this system > reboots we loose critical data to the last backup. This is flat out > unacceptable. I really like FreeBSD much more than Linux, but at this > point others in the group are suggesting we move to Linux because they > know this hardware works fine in Linux. In my experience I've never known > a system to simply reboot when it was a hardware problem (generally if its > a hardware problem it simply freezes up or does not work at all). This is > working for two to three days when suddenly *wham* reboot. > > Help?? My experience in tracking down ``spontainious reboots'' on FreeBSD systems is that this is usually either memory or a bad motherboard. If I recall your earlier mail you had converted from IDE to AHA2940, which leads me to suspect a motherboard problem in the cache invalidation logic with respect to bus mastered DMA. You didn't saymuch else about the hardware, and ``it'll run Linux'' doesn't tell me much, as Linux does not do a lot of the performance enhancements in FreeBSD that requires _CORRECTLY_ designed boards. Hardware problems _often_ cause exactly what you are seeing, but then so do software problems. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD