From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 23 07:21:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA09699 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:21:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA09694 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:21:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA01765 for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:21:49 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA11403; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:57:16 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970323155715.RP28181@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:57:15 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HP Omnibook 800CT "worldstone" References: <6779.859125886@critter> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <6779.859125886@critter>; from Poul-Henning Kamp on Mar 23, 1997 15:04:46 +0100 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > HP Omnibook 800CT > 800x600 Active matrix > Runs for about 75 minutes on batteries doing make world... Btw., our Toshiba T5100 (i think) runs 3.5 hours and more under normal use conditions with FreeBSD. It runs about half the time with Winlose 95. :-)) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 23 12:20:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA26247 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:20:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from geocities.com (mail2.geocities.com [204.7.246.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26240 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:20:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCALNAME (188.middletown-004.va.dial-access.att.net [207.116.99.188]) by geocities.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA12562 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:19:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:19:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703232019.MAA12562@geocities.com> X-Sender: prankster83@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Luigi Montanez Subject: FreeBSD Project Location Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just wondering, where is the project based? California maybe? Thanks, Luigi From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 23 14:22:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA02711 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:22:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA02704 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:22:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA10272; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:22:24 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA19600; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:27:30 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970323222729.HB01913@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:27:29 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: prankster83@geocities.com (Luigi Montanez) Subject: Re: FreeBSD Project Location References: <199703232019.MAA12562@geocities.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703232019.MAA12562@geocities.com>; from Luigi Montanez on Mar 23, 1997 12:19:42 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Luigi Montanez wrote: > Just wondering, where is the project based? California maybe? Moscow, Concord CA, Portland OR, Sjęgelse (sp?), Perth, Seattle WA, Dresden, just to name a few locations off the top of my head. :-) Also, it depends on who you'd include into ``The Project''. Only the committers (~ 80 these days)? All occasional contributers, too? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 23 15:18:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA06212 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:18:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (0@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06193 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA28070; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:18:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA11978; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:20:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:20:19 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Joerg Wunsch cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Luigi Montanez Subject: Re: FreeBSD Project Location In-Reply-To: <19970323222729.HB01913@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id PAA06196 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > As Luigi Montanez wrote: > > > Just wondering, where is the project based? California maybe? > > Moscow, Concord CA, Portland OR, Sjęgelse (sp?), Perth, Seattle WA, > Dresden, just to name a few locations off the top of my head. :-) Maybe it's best to just point to [ftp|www].freebsd.org and say "Walnut Creek". OTOH, that could 1) diminish the importance of contributions from outside WC, and 2) suggest that if WC were to disappear, FreeBSD would disappear. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 23 15:49:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10389 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:49:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA10384 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA11463; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:49:23 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA20253; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:35:25 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970324003525.JW10407@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:35:25 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: prankster83@geocities.com (Luigi Montanez) Subject: Re: FreeBSD Project Location References: <19970323222729.HB01913@uriah.heep.sax.de> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Tim Vanderhoek on Mar 23, 1997 18:20:19 -0500 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > Maybe it's best to just point to [ftp|www].freebsd.org and say > "Walnut Creek". That's probably worst. Walnut Creek CD-ROM is sitting in Concord, California. About 10 miles away from Walnut Creek... ftp.freebsd.org is located in downtown San Francisco, another 15 miles away. (www.freebsd.org is freefall itself however, thus located in Concord.) Other FreeBSD hosts are located on very different sites, like ns.freebsd.org. Don't forget the *..freebsd.org sites, they are clearly a part of the project, too (and doing us a very good service, regardless of whether they provide FTP, CVSup, mail, or other services). Also, while we are grateful for WC's contributions to the FreeBSD Project, their relation to us is not that tight. It's merely a symbiosis: they provide the project with Internet access, and some hardware, and they get a good operating system for their server machines, plus a little profit from selling CD-ROMs with our product. Note that a symbiosis is not a bad thing, neither in biology, nor for us. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 23 16:42:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA13346 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:42:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from kremvax.demos.su (kremvax.demos.su [194.87.0.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA13341 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by kremvax.demos.su (8.6.13/D) from 0@sinbin.demos.su [194.87.0.31] for with ESMTP id DAA03539; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:41:32 +0300 Received: by sinbin.demos.su id DAA17264; (8.6.12/D) Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:40:34 +0300 Message-Id: <199703240040.DAA17264@sinbin.demos.su> Subject: 2.2.1 - rumours? To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:40:34 +0300 (MSK) From: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" X-Class: Fast Organization: Demos Company, Ltd. Reply-To: mishania@demos.su X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, there have been rumours we'll see 2.2.1 as a 22r fix release, are they any truth? Something like it can include these if_fxp/aic* patches et cetra? -mishania From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 23 16:56:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA14214 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:56:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (andrew@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14202 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02237 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:56:44 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:56:44 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Buttons and bumper stickers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk G'day all, our link has been down on and off for about 36 hours and now i find i've been dropped from all the lists i've been subscribed to. (probably majordomo got sick of my messages bouncing back) what's the latest with the bumper stickers and logo buttons? I've got enough interest in Australia so far to order 50 buttons. Have we got a how much and send to whom yet?? Andrew Perry andrew@shoal.net.au -- >>>> which The string 'andrew@python.shoal.net.au' appears in the following entries in lists served by Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG: **** No matches found >>>> doh!! From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 23 17:40:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA17161 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:40:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17154 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:40:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA15885; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:40:11 -0800 (PST) To: mishania@demos.su cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:40:34 +0300." <199703240040.DAA17264@sinbin.demos.su> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:40:11 -0800 Message-ID: <15882.859167611@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > there have been rumours we'll see 2.2.1 as a 22r fix release, are they any > truth? Yes. :) > Something like it can include these if_fxp/aic* patches et cetra? Yes. Stay tuned, as we say. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 23 23:54:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA04972 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA04967 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:54:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA16349; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:54:03 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA22464; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:41:46 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970324084146.LX49212@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:41:46 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: mishania@demos.su Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? References: <199703240040.DAA17264@sinbin.demos.su> <15882.859167611@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <15882.859167611@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mar 23, 1997 17:40:11 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Something like it can include these if_fxp/aic* patches et cetra? > > Yes. Stay tuned, as we say. Oh, did i hear somebody volunteering for `aic' here? :-) Ah, no, it's just `ahc' that's being talked about... Too bad. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 00:38:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA06439 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:38:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from kremvax.demos.su (kremvax.demos.su [194.87.0.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA06429 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:38:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by kremvax.demos.su (8.6.13/D) from 0@sinbin.demos.su [194.87.0.31] with ESMTP id LAA06356; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:35:33 +0300 Received: by sinbin.demos.su id LAA26862; (8.6.12/D) Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:35:11 +0300 Message-Id: <199703240835.LAA26862@sinbin.demos.su> Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:35:11 +0300 (MSK) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19970324084146.LX49212@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 24, 97 08:41:46 am From: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" X-Class: Fast Organization: Demos Company, Ltd. Reply-To: mishania@demos.su X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Something like it can include these if_fxp/aic* patches et cetra? > > Yes. Stay tuned, as we say. > Oh, did i hear somebody volunteering for `aic' here? :-) > Ah, no, it's just `ahc' that's being talked about... Too bad. Don't recall exact versions of the aic*.c, which has kindly been hacked to working state by David Greeman after 2.2-R, but I can assure 3940{w,uw,common} work now. Same with Intel Etherexpress 100/b tx4 rev. 1, - works in full duplex. No offence, but well, I am kinda frightend by the stream of version per one week, like we have now, - 2.1.7/2.2-R/2.2-970317-GAMMA\/not-gamma/2.1.7.1... > cheers, J"org -mishania From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 01:15:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA08173 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08166 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA05936; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:15:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703240915.BAA05936@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: mishania@demos.su cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:35:11 +0300." <199703240835.LAA26862@sinbin.demos.su> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:15:55 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> > > Something like it can include these if_fxp/aic* patches et cetra? >> > Yes. Stay tuned, as we say. >> Oh, did i hear somebody volunteering for `aic' here? :-) >> Ah, no, it's just `ahc' that's being talked about... Too bad. > >Don't recall exact versions of the aic*.c, which has kindly been hacked to >working state by David Greeman after 2.2-R, but I can assure 3940{w,uw,common} >work now. Uhh, it was Justin Gibbs who's been doing all the ahc-2940/3940 driver hacking. > Same with Intel Etherexpress 100/b tx4 rev. 1, - works in full duplex. > >No offence, but well, I am kinda frightend by the stream of version per one >week, like we have now, - 2.1.7/2.2-R/2.2-970317-GAMMA\/not-gamma/2.1.7.1... Yes, well, that's what happens when important fixes come in just after the release has been made. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 02:06:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA10317 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:06:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from kremvax.demos.su (kremvax.demos.su [194.87.0.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA10309 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by kremvax.demos.su (8.6.13/D) from 0@sinbin.demos.su [194.87.0.31] with ESMTP id NAA02608; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:00:47 +0300 Received: by sinbin.demos.su id NAA05363; (8.6.12/D) Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:00:06 +0300 Message-Id: <199703241000.NAA05363@sinbin.demos.su> Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:00:06 +0300 (MSK) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703240915.BAA05936@root.com> from "David Greenman" at Mar 24, 97 01:15:55 am From: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" X-Class: Fast Organization: Demos Company, Ltd. Reply-To: mishania@demos.su X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>working state by David Greeman after 2.2-R, but I can assure 3940{w,uw,common} > >work now. > > Uhh, it was Justin Gibbs who's been doing all the ahc-2940/3940 driver > hacking. oi ;-) well, thanks all, - it works. > > Same with Intel Etherexpress 100/b tx4 rev. 1, - works in full duplex. > >No offence, but well, I am kinda frightend by the stream of version per one > >week, like we have now, - 2.1.7/2.2-R/2.2-970317-GAMMA\/not-gamma/2.1.7.1... > Yes, well, that's what happens when important fixes come in just after the > release has been made. But this is frightening ;-( Reminds Mr. Torvalds speed. I have to repeat, - I mean no offence, since well, I personally think Mr. Torvalds production is quite different opposite we have here. > David Greenman -mishania From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 02:17:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA10698 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA10691 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:17:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id CAA06304; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:18:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703241018.CAA06304@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: mishania@demos.su cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:00:06 +0300." <199703241000.NAA05363@sinbin.demos.su> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:18:30 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Yes, well, that's what happens when important fixes come in just after the >> release has been made. > >But this is frightening ;-( Reminds Mr. Torvalds speed. I have to repeat, - >I mean no offence, since well, I personally think Mr. Torvalds production >is quite different opposite we have here. You don't need to be concerned about this becoming a regular thing. It takes a lot of effort to make full releases, so we only do it when we feel it's critically necessary. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 02:46:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA13027 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (andrew@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12948 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:45:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA10264 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:45:54 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:45:54 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk how many people on the lists have received this stuped spam in the last few hours? I received it 3 times in a few seconds, once on an account which i've only used to send about 3 mail messages, 2 of them to the lists. Is it possible that someone is spamming the list somehow? Or querying majordomo for the addresses? Although the one account which i've only used for a few messages wasn't even subscribed to the list. any ideas anyone? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Received: from mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (mailhost.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.3]) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA09982 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:18:32 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:18:32 +1000 (EST) From: dividual@hotmail.com Message-Id: <199703241018.UAA09982@python.shoal.net.au> Received: from RJIREDFF ([207.147.200.25]) by mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AHX16970; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:17:22 +0000 Subject: Aren't you the person....? DO NOT DELETE THIS! MAY I PLEASE HAVE A FEW MINUTES OF YOUR TIME. Dear friend, Do you realize hundreds of thousands of dollars are made each day by way of the internet. Haven't you ever thought "I wish I could find a way to make money with my computer and my internet connection"? Well you can! The internet is making it possible for everyday ordinary people like you and me to make lots of money. Many of you will read this and think "That can't work" or "It sounds too good to be true". But I challenge you to discard traditional thinking and allow yourself the opportunity to make some of those thousands of dollars that are exchaning hands each and every hour. The opportunity below is no scam and is very legal. It is a simplified form of email marketing. The first time I saw it I deleted it immediately. But the next time I saw it I figured I had nothing to lose with so very little investment required. This is my 2nd time doing this program. The first time I did this I made very good money. I decided to do it again but make it even better. Please at least read this as it may be the answer you've been looking for. You certainly have nothing to lose. "THREW IT AWAY" "I had received this program before. I threw it away, but later wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get a copy, so I had to wait until I was emailed another copy of the program. Eleven months passed, then it came. I DIDN'T throw this one away. I made $41,000 on the first try." Dawn W., Evansville, IN "NO FREE LUNCH" "My late father always told me, 'remember, Alan, there is no free lunch in life. You get out of life what you put into it.' Through trial and error and a somewhat slow frustrating start, I finally figured it out. The program works very well, I just had to find the right target group of people to email it to. So far this year, I have made over $63,000 using this program. I know my dad would have been very proud of me." Alan B., Philadelphia, PA A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM By the time you have read the enclosed information and looked over the enclosed program and reports, you should have concluded that such a program, and one that is legal, could not have been created by an amateur. Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a profitable business for ten years. Then in 1979 my business began falling off. I was doing the same things that were previously successful for me, but it wasn't working. Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the economy. Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had been with us since 1945. I don't have to tell you what happened to the unemployment rate...because many of you know from first hand experience. There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. I should also point out that I will not see a penny of your money, nor anyone else who has provided a testimonial for this program. I have already made over FOUR MILLION DOLLARS! I have retired from the program after sending out over 16,000 programs. Now I have several offices which market this and several other programs here in the US and overseas. By the Spring, we wish to market the 'Internet' by a partnership with AMERICA ON LINE. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to email a copy of this exciting program to everyone that you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 50,000...and your name will be on every one of them!. Remember though, the more you send out, the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! Definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU $$$$$$ Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a .5% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 5% response, that is only 10 orders for REPORT #1. Those 10 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 20,000. Out of those .5%, 100 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 100 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 200,000. The .5% response to that is 1,000 orders for REPORT #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,000,000 total. The .5% response to that is 10,000 orders for REPORT #4. That's 10,000 five dollar bills for you. CASH!!!! Your total income in this example is $50 + $500 + $5000 + $50,000 for a total of $55,550!!!! REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF ONLY 2,000. Believe me, many people will do that and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and email is FREE!!! REPORT#3 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing and purchasing email lists. THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dream will come true. This multi-level email order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. Email is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using email. Get your piece of this action!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and The Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold throughout Multi-level Methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 500,000 millionaires in the US, 20% (100,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show 45 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. INSTRUCTIONS We at Erris Mail Order Marketing Business, have a method of raising capital that REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use $50,000 to $125,000 in the next 20 to 90 days. Before you say "Bull", please read the program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what we do: As with all multi-level business, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the USA allows you to recruit new multi- level business partners, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME AND ARE FILLED THROUGH THE MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi-level Mail Order Marketing anywhere: Step (1) Order all four 4 REPORTS listed by NAME AND NUMBER. Do this by ordering the REPORT from each of the four 4 names listed on the next page. For each REPORT, send $5 CASH and a SELF- ADDRESSED, STAMPED envelope (BUSINESS SIZE #10) to the person listed for the SPECIFIC REPORT. International orders should also include $1 extra for postage. It is essential that you specify the NAME and NUMBER of the report requested to the person you are ordering from. You will need ALL FOUR 4 REPORTS because you will be REPRINTING and RESELLING them. DO NOT alter the names or sequence other than what the instructions say. IMPORTANT: Always provide same-day service on all orders. Step (2) Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with yours, moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2. Drop the name and address under REPORT #2 to REPORT #3, moving the one that was there to REPORT #4. The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is dropped from the list and this party is no doubt on the way to the bank. When doing this, make certain you type the names and addresses ACCURATELY! DO NOT MIX UP MOVING PRODUCT/REPORT POSITIONS!!! Step (3) Having made the required changes in the NAME list, save it as a text (.txt) file in it's own directory to be used with whatever email program you like. Again, REPORT #3 will tell you the best methods of bulk emailing and acquiring email lists. Step (4) Email a copy of the entire program (all of this is very important) to everyone whose address you can get your hands on. Start with friends and relatives since you can encourage them to take advantage of this fabulous money-making opportunity. That's what I did. And they love me now, more than ever. Then, email to anyone and everyone! Use your imagination! You can get email addresses from companies on the internet who specialize in email mailing lists. These are very cheap, 100,000 addresses for around $35.00. IMPORTANT: You won't get a good response if you use an old list, so always request a FRESH, NEW list. You will find out where to purchase these lists when you order the four 4 REPORTS. ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!!! REQUIRED REPORTS ***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*** ALWAYS SEND A SELF-ADDRESSED, STAMPED ENVELOPE AND $5 CASH FOR EACH ORDER REQUESTING THE SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER ________________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" Logic Communications 11693 San Vicente Blvd. Suite 293 Los Angeles, CA 90049 ________________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Success Now Rt. 2 Box 430L Hendersonville, NC 28792 ________________________________________________________ REPORT#3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Scott Marketing Route 1 Box 264-B Brevard, NC 28712 ________________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Millennium Tech. 603 W.13th St. #1A-109 Austin, TX 78701 ________________________________________________________ CONCLUSION I am enjoying my fortune that I made by sending out this program. You too, will be making money in 20 to 90 days, if you follow the SIMPLE STEPS outlined in this mailing. To be financially independent is to be FREE. Free to make financial decisions as never before. Go into business, get into investments, retire or take a vacation. No longer will a lack of money hold you back. However, very few people reach financial independence, because when opportunity knocks, they choose to ignore it. It is much easier to say "NO" than "YES", and this is the question that you must answer. Will YOU ignore this amazing opportunity or will you take advantage of it? If you do nothing, you have indeed missed something and nothing will change. Please re-read this material, this is a special opportunity. If you have any questions, please feel free to write to the sender of this information. You will get a prompt and informative reply. My method is simple. I sell thousands of people a product for $5 that costs me pennies to produce and email. I should also point out that this program is legal and everyone who participates WILL make money. This is not a chain letter or pyramid scam. At times you have probably received chain letters, asking you to send money, on faith, but getting NOTHING in return, NO product what-so-ever! Not only are chain letters illegal, but the risk of someone breaking the chain makes them quite unattractive. You are offering a legitimate product to your people. After they purchase the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them. It's simple free enterprise. As you learned from the enclosed material, the PRODUCT is a series of four 4 FINANCIAL AND BUSINESS REPORTS. The information contained in these REPORTS will not only help you in making your participation in this program more rewarding, but will be useful to you in any other business decisions you make in the years ahead. You are also buying the rights to reprint all of the REPORTS, which will be ordered from you by those to whom you mail this program. The concise one and two page REPORTS you will be buying can easily be reproduced at a local copy center for a cost off about 3 cents a copy. Best wishes with the program and Good Luck! "IT WAS TRULY AMAZING" "Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this program. But conservative as I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was no way that I could not get enough orders to at least get my money back. BOY, was I ever surprised when I found my medium sized post office box crammed with orders! I will make more money this year than any ten years of my life before." Mary Riceland, Lansing, MI TIPS FOR SUCCESS Send for your four 4 REPORTS immediately so you will have them when the orders start coming in. When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the product/service to comply with US Postal and Lottery laws. Title 18 Sections 1302 and 1341 specifically state that: "A PRODUCT OR SERVICE MUST BE EXCHANGED FOR MONEY RECEIVED." WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THE REPORTS TO ARRIVE: 1. Name your new company. You can use your own name if you desire. 2. Get a post office box (preferred). 3. Edit the names and addresses on the program. You must remember, your name and address go next to REPORT #1 and the others all move down one, with the fourth one being bumped OFF the list. 4. Obtain as many email addresses as possible to send until you receive the information on mailing list companies in REPORT #3. 5. Decide on the number of programs you intend to send out. The more you send, and the quicker you send them, the more money you will make. 6. After mailing the programs, get ready to fill the orders. 7. Copy the four 4 REPORTS so you are able to sent them out as soon as you receive an order. IMPORTANT: ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ORDERS YOU RECEIVE! 8. Make certain the letter and reports are neat and legible. YOUR GUARANTEE The check point which GUARANTEES your success is simply this: you must receive 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1. This is a must!!! If you don't within two weeks, email out more programs until you do. Then a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2, if you don't, send out more programs until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, (take a deep breath) you can sit back and relax, because YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE AT LEAST $50,000. Mathematically it is a proven guarantee. Of those who have participated in the program and reached the above GUARANTEES-ALL have reached their $50,000 goal. Also, remember, every time your name is moved down the list you are in front of a different REPORT, so you can keep track of your program by knowing what people are ordering from you. IT'S THAT EASY, REALLY, IT IS!!! REMEMBER: "HE WHO DARES NOTHING, NEED NOT HOPE FOR ANYTHING." "INVEST A LITTLE TIME, ENERGY AND MONEY NOW OR SEARCH FOR IT FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE." From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 03:40:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA03119 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:40:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA03114 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA06862; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:10:19 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199703241140.WAA06862@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? In-Reply-To: <199703241018.CAA06304@root.com> from David Greenman at "Mar 24, 97 02:18:30 am" To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:10:19 +1030 (CST) Cc: mishania@demos.su, chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman stands accused of saying: > >But this is frightening ;-( Reminds Mr. Torvalds speed. I have to repeat, - > >I mean no offence, since well, I personally think Mr. Torvalds production > >is quite different opposite we have here. > > You don't need to be concerned about this becoming a regular thing. It > takes a lot of effort to make full releases, so we only do it when we feel > it's critically necessary. ... and what you've politely omitted to mention is that it's not for lack of effort on the part of the people making the release, but rather that nobody, it seems, has had the _courage_ or _inclination_ to test 2.2, all of you rather waiting until it was released. How can anyone find/fix problems if they're not reported until after the whole testing phase is finished? > David Greenman -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 03:49:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA03337 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:49:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (andrew@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA03326 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10903 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:49:41 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:49:41 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk and another thing, just before i got spammed, i saw someone on irc who i know is also on the list complain about spam from the same place. Andrew Perry From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 06:24:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA09893 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:24:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from croute.com (ishm2.croute.com [199.97.106.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA09887 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:24:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from bldg1.croute.com by croute.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17053; Mon, 24 Mar 97 08:23:49 CST Received: from COMPUROUTE/SpoolDir by bldg1.croute.com (Mercury 1.31); 24 Mar 97 08:23:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from SpoolDir by COMPUROUTE (Mercury 1.31); 24 Mar 97 08:23:20 -0600 (CST) From: "Larry Dolinar" Organization: CompuRoute, Inc. To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:23:11 -0600 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Larry Dolinar" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <929C7934594@bldg1.croute.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk And the clouds parted on 24 Mar 97, and Andrew Perry said: >how many people on the lists have received this stuped spam in the last few >hours? I received it 3 times in a few seconds, once on an account which >i've only used to send about 3 mail messages, 2 of them to the lists. > >Is it possible that someone is spamming the list somehow? Or querying >majordomo for the addresses? Although the one account which i've only used >for a few messages wasn't even subscribed to the list. > >any ideas anyone? I haven't seen it yet, but I filter my mail from this list on a Windoze box at work, and nothing's turned up in my miscellaneous folder. It's just the standard pyramid scheme, with more fancy justifications. Trace the mail if you can and notify their ISP. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 07:13:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA12632 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:13:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from bbs.mpcs.com (hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com [204.215.226.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA12626 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:13:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hgoldste@localhost) by bbs.mpcs.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/MPCS) id KAA16136; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:13:19 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:13:19 -0500 From: Howard Goldstein Message-Id: <199703241513.KAA16136@bbs.mpcs.com> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: dg@root.com Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? In-Reply-To: <199703240915.BAA05936@root.com> Reply-To: hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199703240915.BAA05936@root.com>, you wrote: : Yes, well, that's what happens when important fixes come in just after the : release has been made. Yes, but what are these important changes? RELNOTES is right out of 2.2. I'm trying to evaluate whether or not to throw out 10 hours of download times finished early this morning and start over again ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 07:25:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA13188 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:25:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com (USR1-1.detnet.com [207.113.12.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13177 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:25:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA08391; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:25:03 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199703241525.JAA08391@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) To: larryd@bldg1.croute.com (Larry Dolinar) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:25:03 -0600 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <929C7934594@bldg1.croute.com> from Larry Dolinar at "Mar 24, 97 08:23:11 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Larry Dolinar wrote: > And the clouds parted on 24 Mar 97, and Andrew Perry > said: > > >how many people on the lists have received this stuped spam in the last few > >hours? I received it 3 times in a few seconds, once on an account which > >i've only used to send about 3 mail messages, 2 of them to the lists. > > > >Is it possible that someone is spamming the list somehow? Or querying > >majordomo for the addresses? Although the one account which i've only used > >for a few messages wasn't even subscribed to the list. > > > >any ideas anyone? > > I haven't seen it yet, but I filter my mail from this list on a Windoze box > at work, and nothing's turned up in my miscellaneous folder. > > It's just the standard pyramid scheme, with more fancy justifications. > Trace the mail if you can and notify their ISP. > > Its a worldnet customer, again... I sent a letter to them and got an auto reply back:( Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 09:02:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA18181 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18172 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:02:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (ulf@gatekeeper.Lamb.net [207.90.181.2]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.5/20.74.3.14) with ESMTP id JAA24314; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:02:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.8.5/8.7.6) id JAA15019; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:02:01 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199703241702.JAA15019@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) To: andrew@python.shoal.net.au (Andrew Perry) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:02:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Andrew Perry at "Mar 24, 97 08:45:54 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > how many people on the lists have received this stuped spam in the last > few hours? I received it 3 times in a few seconds, once on an account > which i've only used to send about 3 mail messages, 2 of them to the > lists. > > Is it possible that someone is spamming the list somehow? Or querying > majordomo for the addresses? Although the one account which i've only used > for a few messages wasn't even subscribed to the list. > > any ideas anyone? > I got it too, but not to the address I am subscribed to. But I have posted from it. Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 09:03:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA18215 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:03:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (root@po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18208 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from baud.eng.umd.edu (baud.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.183]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12934; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by baud.eng.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.6.4) with SMTP id MAA06169; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:02:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: baud.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:02:46 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@baud.eng.umd.edu To: Andrew Perry cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Andrew Perry wrote: > how many people on the lists have received this stuped spam in the last > few hours? I received it 3 times in a few seconds, once on an account > which i've only used to send about 3 mail messages, 2 of them to the > lists. > > Is it possible that someone is spamming the list somehow? Or querying > majordomo for the addresses? Although the one account which i've only used > for a few messages wasn't even subscribed to the list. > > any ideas anyone? I'm somewhat curious why you felt you needed to transmit that entire 18K character spam to the whole list. Yes, I'd received it, but repeating it to the whole list was spam also. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 09:11:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA18738 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:11:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18733 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:11:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA27851; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:09:52 -0800 (PST) To: mishania@demos.su cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:35:11 +0300." <199703240835.LAA26862@sinbin.demos.su> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:09:52 -0800 Message-ID: <27848.859223392@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No offence, but well, I am kinda frightend by the stream of version per one > week, like we have now, - 2.1.7/2.2-R/2.2-970317-GAMMA\/not-gamma/2.1.7.1... Which seems stranger than hell considering that you're one of the people who asked for a point release in 2.2 to fix the ahc problems.. :-) You can't have it both ways. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 09:20:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19246 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:20:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19176 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:20:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA27923; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:19:54 -0800 (PST) To: Andrew Perry cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:45:54 +1000." Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:19:54 -0800 Message-ID: <27919.859223994@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is it possible that someone is spamming the list somehow? Or querying People spam the lists all the time - it's not new. I suggest firing off angry letters to the various ISPs involved whenever this happens (I do). Enough letters and you can guarantee that the user(s) involved will generally be toast afterwards. In more extreme cases, I use "whois" and make some phone calls. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 09:32:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA20139 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:32:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA20133 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:32:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA27975; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:31:22 -0800 (PST) To: Michael Smith cc: dg@root.com, mishania@demos.su, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:10:19 +1030." <199703241140.WAA06862@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:31:22 -0800 Message-ID: <27971.859224682@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > David Greenman stands accused of saying: > > >But this is frightening ;-( Reminds Mr. Torvalds speed. I have to repeat, - > > >I mean no offence, since well, I personally think Mr. Torvalds production > > >is quite different opposite we have here. > > > > You don't need to be concerned about this becoming a regular thing. It > > takes a lot of effort to make full releases, so we only do it when we feel > > it's critically necessary. > > ... and what you've politely omitted to mention is that it's not for lack > of effort on the part of the people making the release, but rather that > nobody, it seems, has had the _courage_ or _inclination_ to test 2.2, > all of you rather waiting until it was released. Thank you for saying this. In fact, this has been noted so often that I jokingly suggested that we should do a "fake" 2.2R release about a week before the real one was due so that people would actually test it. They don't test the BETAs or the GAMMAS very well, it seems, since I get the bulk of my bug reports from the final releases. It's almost enough to make one ditch the whole ALPHA/BETA/GAMMA release cycles, they've become that ineffective as a genuinely useful test vehicle for us. On the flip side of this, we have more and more people who seem to expect every single bug fix to be in every single release. I got tens of letters from people saying "are the bug fixes in 2.1.7.1 also in 2.2R? Please say yes!" even though the timing for that to happen would have been an impossibility. Doesn't matter, they want the fixes anyway - they want working time travel, in fact, so that the bugs are also fixed on all their 2.1.0 machines. :-) Even now, I'm now getting messages saying "you get Justin's fixes in from Sunday and Monday? Right? Right?!" to which I must respond "no, I did not - I did the release on Saturday so that I could have Sunday to test it - the fixes would have had to have been in on Friday since I need at least 2-3 days to put a release together and test it." So the answer is - if people like Mishania want to see less frequent release then they're going to have to work A WHOLE LOT HARDER on the BETAs and the GAMMAs! We had GAMMA out for a month and hardly anyone tested it. Maybe if I only gave people an hour before removing the bits again, they'd be more motivated, but giving them plenty of time does NOT appear to work at all. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 09:43:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA20967 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:43:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA20962 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA28068; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:43:40 -0800 (PST) To: hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, dg@root.com Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:13:19 EST." <199703241513.KAA16136@bbs.mpcs.com> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:43:40 -0800 Message-ID: <28064.859225420@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In article <199703240915.BAA05936@root.com>, you wrote: > : Yes, well, that's what happens when important fixes come in just after the > : release has been made. > > Yes, but what are these important changes? RELNOTES is right out of > 2.2. > > I'm trying to evaluate whether or not to throw out 10 hours of > download times finished early this morning and start over again ;-) I've amended the release notes to say: 2.2.1 is an even smaller incremental fix release to 2.2, primarily aimed at fixing some problems with the Adaptec 2940 driver which could cause instability in very heavily loaded systems (like news servers). It also fixes a bug which made the package installer fail from CDROM media. Since the 2.2.1. release follows 2.2 by just over a week, other documentation still refers to this release as simply "2.2" since this is a complete *replacement* for 2.2.0-RELEASE, not simply another release. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 09:48:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA21303 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:48:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from kremvax.demos.su (kremvax.demos.su [194.87.0.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA21281 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:47:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by kremvax.demos.su (8.6.13/D) from 0@sinbin.demos.su [194.87.0.31] with ESMTP id UAA09744; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:46:53 +0300 Received: by sinbin.demos.su id UAA06647; (8.6.12/D) Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:46:28 +0300 Message-Id: <199703241746.UAA06647@sinbin.demos.su> Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:46:28 +0300 (MSK) Cc: mishania@demos.su, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <27848.859223392@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 97 09:09:52 am From: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" X-Class: Fast Organization: Demos Company, Ltd. Reply-To: mishania@demos.su X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > No offence, but well, I am kinda frightend by the stream of version per one > > week, like we have now, - 2.1.7/2.2-R/2.2-970317-GAMMA\/not-gamma/2.1.7.1.. > Which seems stranger than hell considering that you're one of the people > who asked for a point release in 2.2 to fix the ahc problems.. :-) Wheeee! I am not the culprit now, - at least I personally think I whined at David/Joerg/Andrey/Jordan/Steven more than it was polite to be ;-P (Now what is polite whining?) > You can't have it both ways. > Jordan -mishania From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 10:08:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA23044 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA23035 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:08:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA19057; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:08:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:08:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199703241808.LAA19057@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Ulf Zimmermann Cc: andrew@python.shoal.net.au (Andrew Perry), chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199703241702.JAA15019@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> References: <199703241702.JAA15019@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.21 under 19.14 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > how many people on the lists have received this stuped spam in the last > > few hours? I received it 3 times in a few seconds, once on an account > > I got it too, but not to the address I am subscribed to. But I have posted > from it. I'm getting it on an account I've never posted to Usenet on. I post from a different account to avoid that problem, so it's not a usenet only spammer. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 12:32:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA03672 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:32:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (andrew@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03664 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:32:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA08552 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:32:28 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:32:28 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk sorry everyone, the headers should have been enough (too much?) On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > I'm somewhat curious why you felt you needed to transmit that entire 18K > character spam to the whole list. Yes, I'd received it, but repeating it > to the whole list was spam also. > Andrew Perry andrew@shoal.net.au From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 13:28:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA08664 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:28:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (andrew@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08621 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:27:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA09094; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:26:22 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:26:22 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: Robert Eckardt cc: Wes Peters , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buttons and bumper stickers In-Reply-To: <199703241721.SAA21797@gluon.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How about "Powered by FreeBSD" ? Andrew Perry andrew@shoal.net.au On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Robert Eckardt wrote: > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:21:43 +0100 (MET) > From: Robert Eckardt > To: Wes Peters > Cc: andrew@python.shoal.net.au, questions@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: Buttons and bumper stickers > > > > Not yet. I spoke to the owner of the company that makes these on > > Friday, and he promised to send me samples and pricing info, but said he > > wouldn't be able to get it out until today. Given the speed of the > > U. S. Snail service, I expect to get the package late this week or early > > next week. > > > > In the meantime, send me suggestions for artwork. I've roped in a > > friend who is a professional in advertising and pre-press work to help > > with putting together the logo, and have him working from the "Powered > > by FreeBSD" icon as a starting point. > > I would like to see an as simple text as possible. > S..th. like "FreeBSD running" or "Here runs FreeBSD" or ... > > (Also, it wouldn't be bad to have some stickers with the daemon and > the FreeBSD logo (ca. 3" diameter) to paste on a bag, a car, a window, ... > just to constantly point people to it. -- The same as some have a pinguin > sitting on their desk. :-) > > I tried some "artwork", but lost the battle with the graphics program. > (BTW, is there any good picture editing SW under FreeBSD ?) > > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > > > Just my 0.03 DM, > Robert > > -- > Dr. Robert Eckardt ( > Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Inst.f.Theor.Physik, NB6/169 ) > Universitaetsstrasse 150, D-44780 Bochum, Germany ----X---8---- > Telefon: +49 234 700-3709, Telefax: +49 234 7094-574 8 > E-Mail: RobertE@MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de --------8---- > URL: http://WWW.MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de/~roberte > >>> To be successful one needs friends, <<< > >>> To be very successful one needs enemies. <<< > From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 14:30:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14478 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:30:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA14431 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:29:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA27578; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:29:48 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA05143; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:40:45 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970324214045.IA14764@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:40:45 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: mishania@demos.su Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? References: <199703241000.NAA05363@sinbin.demos.su> <199703241018.CAA06304@root.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703241018.CAA06304@root.com>; from David Greenman on Mar 24, 1997 02:18:30 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David Greenman wrote: > You don't need to be concerned about this becoming a regular thing. It > takes a lot of effort to make full releases, so we only do it when we feel > it's critically necessary. Don't trust David here. We're really prefering fixup releases. 1.1.5.1 2.1.6.1 2.1.7 2.2.1 :-)) (There would have been a 1.1.1, too, but it just wasn't renamed. Still, it only made it out at the second attempt...) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 15:48:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20644 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:48:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20637 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:48:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA11306; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:17:55 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199703242347.KAA11306@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? In-Reply-To: <27971.859224682@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Mar 24, 97 09:31:22 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:17:55 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, dg@root.com, mishania@demos.su, chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > So the answer is - if people like Mishania want to see less frequent > release then they're going to have to work A WHOLE LOT HARDER on > the BETAs and the GAMMAs! We had GAMMA out for a month and hardly > anyone tested it. Maybe if I only gave people an hour before removing > the bits again, they'd be more motivated, but giving them plenty > of time does NOT appear to work at all. :-) Yah. Maybe slightly more accurately; the same people test the GAMMA releases as tested the BETA releases, and the ALPHA releases, and -current leading up to all that, so the bugs that these users are going to find have already been found and fixed. Here, for example, we have been shipping various flavours of 2.2 on systems for the best part of 12 months. In that period, all of the problems we have encountered have been fixed; I did my damndest to find anything I could complain about over the whole BETA/GAMMA cycle, but I and other people in the same position have already been appeased; it is _essential_ for users that are looking for a stable release to participate in the pre-release testing. > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 18:30:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA00805 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00800 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA00801; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:29:54 -0800 (PST) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: chat@freebsd.org, mishania@demos.su Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:40:45 +0100." <19970324214045.IA14764@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:29:54 -0800 Message-ID: <798.859256994@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 2.1.7 ^.1 :-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 18:31:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA01166 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:31:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01090 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA16613 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:47:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id UAA24998; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id UAA09192; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:44:40 -0500 (EST) To: Andrew Perry cc: chat@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:45:54 +1000." Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:44:40 -0500 Message-ID: <9190.859254280@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrew Perry wrote in message ID : > how many people on the lists have received this stuped spam in the last > few hours? I received it 3 times in a few seconds, once on an account > which i've only used to send about 3 mail messages, 2 of them to the > lists. > > Is it possible that someone is spamming the list somehow? Or querying > majordomo for the addresses? Although the one account which i've only used > for a few messages wasn't even subscribed to the list. > > any ideas anyone? I dunno. It's most likely that the mail address culling s/w is getting smarter. I got two spams (one to a freefall alias I think), and forwarded them both to abuse@worldnet.att.net within minutes. I hope that the person has been dealt with. (Since they used a hotmail From: line I also CC:'d hotmail). Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 18:33:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA01738 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:33:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01701 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from tyger.inna.net (root@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA16315 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from dolphin.inna.net (jamie@dolphin.inna.net [206.151.66.2]) by tyger.inna.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19426; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:13:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:11:55 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Michael Smith , dg@root.com, mishania@demos.su, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? In-Reply-To: <27971.859224682@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > So the answer is - if people like Mishania want to see less frequent > release then they're going to have to work A WHOLE LOT HARDER on > the BETAs and the GAMMAs! We had GAMMA out for a month and hardly > anyone tested it. Maybe if I only gave people an hour before removing > the bits again, they'd be more motivated, but giving them plenty > of time does NOT appear to work at all. :-) I would like to say that we have gamma still running on one of our boxes, and have had no trouble with it (even playing with the bt848 driver). The box in question is unfortunately not scsi, so we missed the scsi driver problems :(. Hopefully we will have a box with a *940 card in it soon for the sole purpose of being on the edge :). Jamie Bowden Network Administrator, TBI Ltd. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 19:36:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA07654 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:36:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cs.iastate.edu (cs.iastate.edu [129.186.3.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07644 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:36:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from popeye.cs.iastate.edu (popeye.cs.iastate.edu [129.186.3.4]) by cs.iastate.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id VAA06375 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:36:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (ghelmer@localhost) by popeye.cs.iastate.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id VAA21967 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:36:38 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: popeye.cs.iastate.edu: ghelmer owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:36:37 -0600 (CST) From: Guy Helmer To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: BSD Anniversary Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It's been five years this month since FreeBSD's ancestor, 386BSD 0.0, hit the streets. Anyone remember how much fun it was to install? Thank goodness for (in no particular order) Jordan, Nate, Terry, Rod, Walnut Creek CD-ROM, and everyone else who set the foundation for FreeBSD! Guy Helmer From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 20:49:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA16003 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:49:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA15997 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA01048; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:50:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703250450.UAA01048@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Guy Helmer cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:36:37 CST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:50:43 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >It's been five years this month since FreeBSD's ancestor, 386BSD 0.0, hit >the streets. Anyone remember how much fun it was to install? It was...challenging. Bill once commented to me "Anyone who was actually able to successfully install 0.0 deserves a prize". It's been so long that I've forgotten the details, but I seem to recall that you had to do everything by hand with the distribution being a bunch of floppies that were all cat'd together...and the supported hardware configuration was basically: pccons, floppy, and wd controller. If you weren't a computer expert (especially with low level details), you didn't have a snowball's chance. I installed it (if you can call what had to be done as an "installation") on a 386SX-25 with 4MBs of RAM. ...oh what fun THAT was. :-) -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 21:26:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA18956 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [192.41.71.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18945; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from castle (root@ip211.konnections.com [192.41.71.211]) by mail.konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA07704; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:25:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3338B212.752C9086@konnections.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:20:18 -0700 From: mike allison Organization: Publisher -- Burning Eagle Book Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jeffery T. White" CC: current@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: named References: <199703240023.QAA00205@cyberwind.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeffery, I don't know where you'd submit it for FreeBSD, but I'd like a blurb on this with the setup code/script to publish in Free Systems Journal. Please respond to me at ed@konnections.com or mallison@konnections.com if you'd like to submit. (An article, that is : -} ) Thanks all, -Mike Jeffery T. White wrote: > > I'm not sure where this should go, I'm sure if this group isn't right > someone will let me know! :-) > > Couple of things on named: > 1. The file /etc/namedb/make-localhost is a script but is not installed > with the execute bit set, pretty minor but figured I'd bring it up since it > seems install could do that. > > 2. I had to buy books to find out about the "caching-only" named setup. > This setup is extremely useful for users who run small networks and connect > via ppp to ISPs. I'd be willing to write the > setup up but don't know where it would be submitted? The setup files are so > generic they could even become sample files in /etc/namedb... > > | Jeffery T. White > | email: zellion@cyberwind.com > | > | Cyberwind, The wind knows... > | http://www.cyberwind.com From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 24 21:56:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA20816 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:56:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [192.41.71.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20811 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:56:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from castle (root@ip211.konnections.com [192.41.71.211]) by mail.konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA08037; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:56:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3338B935.3B0EA6D8@konnections.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:50:45 -0700 From: mike allison Organization: Publisher -- Burning Eagle Book Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Free Systems Journal Web Site & Thanks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just a note to say "Thanks" to everyone who has contributed their thoughts and well wishes to Free Systems Journal. We were able to quickly get a web page up to start our communications with the world. It's about 80% done. Hopefully we'll be at version 0.9.9.1 by this weekend. : -} The address is: http://www.konnections.com/bebooks just follow the signs to "Free Systems Jornal" Please post any feedback or suggestions to me at ed@konnections.com or mallison@konnections.com Thanks everyone, -Mike From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 25 00:28:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA28098 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 00:28:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au (daemon@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28092 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 00:28:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA01579; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:28:31 +1000 Received: by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.7.5/DEVETIR-E0.3a) id SAA11816; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:16:02 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:16:02 +1000 (EST) From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199703250816.SAA11816@ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au> To: Michael Smith cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: 2.2.1 - rumours? X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith wrote: >... and what you've politely omitted to mention is that it's not for lack >of effort on the part of the people making the release, but rather that >nobody, it seems, has had the _courage_ or _inclination_ to test 2.2, >all of you rather waiting until it was released. Sadly, I am one of the guilty. We have a production system which uses PCI Adaptec 2940 controllers (the ones that had problems in 2.2R) and we always intended to wait for 2.2.1 (but now might wait for 2.2.2). Why? We have no test machine with a similar configuration. High powered PCI SCSI PC's are still rare enough that we have only one of them at our disposal. It is already in use. On the other hand, my 386 test box ironed out a 386 specific problem. :-) It's all that I have available for destructive testing. That's just life. >How can anyone find/fix problems if they're not reported until after >the whole testing phase is finished? True. Most bugs will be in the newest stuff. The newest stuff is often device drivers for the newest hardware. The newest hardware is often expensive, and usually rare. Bummer. I think the secret is to not agonise over it too much, and to plan on having minor bug-fix updates. It's pretty much inevitable. Stephen. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 25 06:10:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA13796 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:10:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from cs.iastate.edu (cs.iastate.edu [129.186.3.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13789 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:10:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from storm.cs.iastate.edu (storm.cs.iastate.edu [129.186.3.7]) by cs.iastate.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id IAA09188; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:10:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (ghelmer@localhost) by storm.cs.iastate.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA29693; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:10:20 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: storm.cs.iastate.edu: ghelmer owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:10:19 -0600 (CST) From: Guy Helmer To: David Greenman cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary In-Reply-To: <199703250450.UAA01048@root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, David Greenman wrote: > >It's been five years this month since FreeBSD's ancestor, 386BSD 0.0, hit > >the streets. Anyone remember how much fun it was to install? > > It was...challenging. Bill once commented to me "Anyone who was actually > able to successfully install 0.0 deserves a prize". It's been so long that > I've forgotten the details, but I seem to recall that you had to do everything > by hand with the distribution being a bunch of floppies that were all cat'd > together...and the supported hardware configuration was basically: pccons, > floppy, and wd controller. If you weren't a computer expert (especially with > low level details), you didn't have a snowball's chance. I installed it (if > you can call what had to be done as an "installation") on a 386SX-25 with > 4MBs of RAM. ...oh what fun THAT was. :-) I got 0.0 running on a 386DX-25 with a 300MB ESDI drive -- I mention the ESDI drive because 1) the controller translated the geometry [an intimate knowledge of disk geometry was necessary] and 2) the drive had bad spots, so it was difficult to install 0.0 on that disk (it was also hard to get FreeBSD 1.x installed on that disk...). 386BSD 0.1 on that 386 saved me from disaster (Ultrix on my sole MicroVAX II at the time wasn't stable enough to handle the load of supporting all Internet services for the university at which I worked). It was cool to see a 386 outperform a MicroVAX that cost 10 times as much :-) And I'm sorry I left your name (and John's) out of the list of thanks! Guy Helmer ghelmer@cs.iastate.edu From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 25 10:20:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA28935 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:20:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns.pinpt.com (dns.pinpt.com [205.179.195.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA28895 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover4 (gatemaster.pinpt.com [205.179.195.65]) by dns.pinpt.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA12853 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:18:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 97 10:17:46 Pacific Standard Time From: "Sean J. Schluntz" Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: Chameleon ATX 6.0, Standards Based IntraNet Solutions, NetManage Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's been five years this month since FreeBSD's ancestor, 386BSD 0.0, hit > the streets. Anyone remember how much fun it was to install? > > Thank goodness for (in no particular order) Jordan, Nate, Terry, Rod, > Walnut Creek CD-ROM, and everyone else who set the foundation for FreeBSD! Ooch, I remember that. Mailing off my stack of floppy disks (5 1/4") so some one could put 386BSD 0.0 on them and then installing that. I remember how nice it was after installed though (Having moved from CP/M on an old Morrow single sided system (still have that.. ;)) -Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sean J. Schluntz Manager, Support Services ph. 408.997.6900 x222 PinPoint Software Corporation fx. 408.323.2300 6155 Almaden Expressway, Suite 100 San Jose, CA. 95120 http://www.pinpt.com/ Local Time Sent: 03/25/97 10:17:47 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 25 15:08:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA18502 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA18482 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:07:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA16635 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:07:33 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA07148; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:35:32 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970325233531.XE42511@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:35:31 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Guy Helmer on Mar 24, 1997 21:36:37 -0600 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Guy Helmer wrote: > It's been five years this month since FreeBSD's ancestor, 386BSD 0.0, hit > the streets. Anyone remember how much fun it was to install? Yeah. I had to buy another disk (since it occupied an entire disk only, and i wasn't ready for getting rid of DOS by that time :), and to ``borrow'' a coprocessor from my employer that happened to sit around idling there. ;-) Later on, i've got very used to the idea of occupying an entire disk, and i couldn't understand what a stinkin' fdisk table might be for. ``DD mode'' is the result... "Don't forget to make depend." (Those who still remember 386BSD 0.0 will quickly get the joke. For all the others, i'll solve the puzzle in the next followup if nobody did it before me. :*) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 25 15:23:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19747 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:23:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA19738 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:23:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA16779; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:21:29 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA07437; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:04:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970326000442.KW35270@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:04:42 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: obrien@NUXI.com (David O'Brien) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD chat list) Subject: Re: docs/3092: libedit appears to not be documented References: <199703250839.IAA24931@dragon.nuxi.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703250839.IAA24931@dragon.nuxi.com>; from David O'Brien on Mar 25, 1997 08:39:21 +0000 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David O'Brien wrote: > >Description: > > libedit (freefall:/home/ncvs/src/lib/libedit) appears to have no man > pages. > > >How-To-Repeat: > > n/a > > >Fix: > > ... > > >Audit-Trail: > >Unformatted: Ooops. Your PR seems to have been corrupted, please re-submit. Note the three dots where you've originally been submitting the missing documentation! :-)) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 25 18:02:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA03247 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:02:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA03230 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:02:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14584(7)>; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:01:45 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177486>; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:01:32 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:35:31 PST." <19970325233531.XE42511@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:01:18 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <97Mar25.180132pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) wrote: >"Don't forget to make depend." I can't say that I remember 386BSD 0.0, but that sounds like something that a BSD4.2 or 4.3 "config" might say. Bill From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 25 19:23:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA10115 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10106 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:23:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01615; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:22:33 -0800 (PST) To: Bill Fenner cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:01:18 PST." <97Mar25.180132pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:22:33 -0800 Message-ID: <1612.859346553@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I still never did get 386BSD installed on my TV set. :-) > j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) wrote: > >"Don't forget to make depend." > > I can't say that I remember 386BSD 0.0, but that sounds like something that a BSD4.2 or 4.3 "config" might say. > > Bill > > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 25 19:52:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA11713 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:52:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen.hiwaay.net (max1-109.HiWAAY.net [208.147.145.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11700 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nexgen.hiwaay.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA25451; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:24:00 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703260324.VAA25451@nexgen.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: dg@root.com cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: dkelly@HiWAAY.net Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary In-reply-to: Message from David Greenman of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:50:43 PST." <199703250450.UAA01048@root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:24:00 -0600 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk dg@root.com said: > It was...challenging. Bill once commented to me "Anyone who was > actually able to successfully install 0.0 deserves a prize". It's > been so long that I've forgotten the details, but I seem to recall > that you had to do everything by hand with the distribution being a > bunch of floppies that were all cat'd together...and the supported > hardware configuration was basically: pccons, floppy, and wd > controller. If you weren't a computer expert (especially with low > level details), you didn't have a snowball's chance. I installed it > (if you can call what had to be done as an "installation") on a > 386SX-25 with 4MBs of RAM. ...oh what fun THAT was. :-) Yup. I got mine running on a 4M 386DX40, might have been 2M at first. My First PC, purchased specifically to run 386BSD. Subscribed to Dr. Dobb's Journal specifically for the Jolitz series. Dropped the subscription when the series didn't continue. Downloaded and wrote (most of) the floppies with a Macintosh. Did you know rawrite runs under SoftPC? Used an unsupported UltraStor 14F SCSI card. Fortunately the 14F was able to imitate wd/IDE. Tried for a long time to get it to run two "IDE" interfaces but concluded it didn't like the idea of one drive on each interface. Even bought an FPU simply to get 386BSD to run. Never had 386BSD on a network. Recently dug that machine out of the closet, put 2.1.5 on it, and placed it in the hands of a kid who was in danger of thinking the whole world was Microsoft. Apparently he's having a blast with about 3 machines SL/IP or PPP'ed together, each with a different OS. At least one on amateur radio, the others routing to that one. Lately he has been buying $5 ethernet cards to upgrade his network. And finally he's quit calling me 3 times/night, "How do you do ... in FreeBSD?" (no, his parents won't let him on the internet). -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 25 20:03:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA12039 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:03:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from cyberwind.com (cyberwind.com [199.4.109.220]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12031; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:03:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from zellion.cyberwind.com (zellion.cyberwind.com [199.4.109.223]) by cyberwind.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02352; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:03:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703260403.UAA02352@cyberwind.com> From: "Jeffery T. White" To: "mike allison" Cc: , Subject: Re: named Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:11:24 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: mike allison > To: Jeffery T. White > Cc: current@freebsd.org; FreeBSD-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: named > Date: Tuesday, March 25, 1997 9:20 PM > > Jeffery, > I don't know where you'd submit it for FreeBSD, but I'd like a blurb on > this with the setup code/script to publish in Free Systems Journal. > Well I'm no expert and surely no writer however I do have: a) The time.. b) The small user/network perspective.. c) The research fresh in mind.. d) A FreeBSD only sort of few.. [is this a plus or not? :-)] I'll write up the steps from resolver through sysconfig and the named files in a language that IMHO would reach the user interested in the "simple" setup and post it here by Sunday. That'll let this group see what I'm saying since they're more knowledgeable than me in this area and would catch any errors. We can then either revise or whatever from there. | Jeffery T. White | email: zellion@cyberwind.com | | Cyberwind, The wind knows... | http://www.cyberwind.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 26 00:21:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA25146 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:21:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA25141 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:21:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA22682 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:21:08 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA10016; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:52:08 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970326085207.XP37499@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:52:07 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary References: <19970325233531.XE42511@uriah.heep.sax.de> <97Mar25.180132pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <97Mar25.180132pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com>; from Bill Fenner on Mar 25, 1997 18:01:18 -0700 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bill Fenner wrote: > j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) wrote: > >"Don't forget to make depend." > I can't say that I remember 386BSD 0.0, but that sounds like > something that a BSD4.2 or 4.3 "config" might say. Yep. But the joke with 386BSD 0.0 was, it also printed this message, and brave as many people have been, one went to the compile directory, and typed ``make depend''. But that was the worst mistake one could do! The only way to get on was to _not_ run make depend... since make constructed an argument list that was way too long, and this consistently hit a kernel panic. (I think argument lists were fixed to one page in 386BSD 0.0.) Compiling the kernel right away without the added dependencies worked fine. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 26 18:44:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26071 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:44:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [192.41.71.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26058 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from castle (root@ip210.konnections.com [192.41.71.210]) by mail.konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA09721; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:43:49 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <333B2F2B.70125186@konnections.com> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:38:35 -0700 From: mike allison Organization: Publisher -- Burning Eagle Book Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: named] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk mike allison wrote: > > Jeffery: > > This sounds great. Please do that and write a little note on it saying > that we're trying to clean it up for submission. Sometimes I think the > REAL people don't get a chance to speak up because we believe that our > answers are insignificant, or can't possibly be right or elegant. I'm > here to say that I'd rather risk a good try because we all gain. You > gain through writing the article and the readers gain because it's > coming from a real person's perspective in their language. The experts > can add their bit, but it's your effort that makes it good.... > > I look forward to reading and PUBLISHING it... > > Thanks, > > -Mike > > Jeffery T. White wrote: > > > > d) A FreeBSD only sort of few.. [is this a plus or not? :-)] > > > > I'll write up the steps from resolver through sysconfig and the named files > > in a language that IMHO would reach the user interested in the "simple" > > setup and post it here by Sunday. That'll let this group see what I'm > > saying since they're more knowledgeable than me in this area and would > > catch any errors. We can then either revise or whatever from there. > > > > | Jeffery T. White > > | email: zellion@cyberwind.com > > | > > | Cyberwind, The wind knows... > > | http://www.cyberwind.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 26 19:24:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA28920 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:24:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen.hiwaay.net (max20-105.HiWAAY.net [208.147.153.105]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28906 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:24:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nexgen.hiwaay.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA04587; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:24:12 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703270324.VAA04587@nexgen.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: mike allison Cc: chat@freebsd.org From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary In-reply-to: Message from mike allison of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:32:55 MST." <333B2DD7.52E18EA0@konnections.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:24:11 -0600 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk mike allison said: > dkelly@HiWAAY.net wrote: > > >Apparently he's having a blast with about 3 machines SL/IP or > > PPP'ed together, each with a different OS. At least one on amateur radio, > > the others routing to that one. Lately he has been buying $5 ethernet cards > > to upgrade his network. And finally he's quit calling me 3 times/night, > > "How do you do ... in FreeBSD?" (no, his parents won't let him on the > > internet). > > > Yeah, > > we wouldn't want to encourage this kind of enthusiam with systems > integration to interfere with things he'll REALLY need to know in the > future. This kid could be another Steve WOSNIAK, and we all know how > bad that could be..... Hey! You aren't knocking Apple are you? Wozniak is one of my heros. I'll have to fire up my Limited Edition Wozniak-signature 1.75MB Apple IIgs and LodeRunner you to death. The Apple II is a damn fine machine. I cut my programming teeth in assembly on one. And then merged that with hardware when I tore into the disk drive controller. An amazing design. Woz is a genius. Anyhow, eventually I ended up with an unreliable DSDD 360 floppy drive using an unmodified $35 standard mechanism. Didn't have the tools to figure out what wasn't working as the drive apparently worked well on PC hardware but not on my interface. Borrowed a 10 MHz scope and could see a significant difference between a floppy written with a PC and one written on an Apple II. Was even more amazed at Woz's genius. Hacked on some filter capacitors on the drive's MC3370 (?) trying to make it look like Woz's circuit. Got it to work better but still not usable. Woz used a couple of LC filters referenced to -12v and got perfect performance. I didn't have -12v available or know what L's and C's he used so I wasn't able to clone it on my system. I did end up with a hacked copy of ProDOS that would read/write to Rana System's 360k drives. Gave it to a friend who let me borrow a drive (Rana was the only manufacturer to attempt to offer double sided floppies on an Apple II but went out of business about the time ProDOS appeared.) Learned how Rana signaled their drives to flip heads. Used the same technique. In my adapter between SA400 floppy drives and an Apple II disk drive card I used a state machine implemented in a 2732 EPROM. Clocked it with a free running oscillator at between 50kHz and 100kHz using a 74LS04. Basically what my state machine did was map Woz's 4 phase step motor signals into direction, step, and head commands for the SA400. Its easy to map direction and step into 4 phases for a step motor (that's what they do on the drive), but the inverse is a pain. Also detected the Track 0 signal and selected the bottom head if one tried to move to track -1 so the drive could boot and operate normally before my special software was loaded. Remember how an Apple II would pull its heads in thru 80 tracks on boot, banging it against the stops for 45 tracks? Not on my hardware hack. State machine development language was AppleSoft. Wrote the equations in AppleSoft then looped thru them for all addresses in the EPROM. Took 35 minutes to generate the EPROM image. Got a version I liked on the 7th run but didn't know it until the 8th. In spite of all that fun, I eventually got my BSE from the Mechanical Engineering department. Been doing electrical stuff ever since. Found an Apple II Plus at an auction recently. Two disk drives, joystick, and a bunch of original software. Got it for $8. We need a FreeBSD version of LodeRunner.... -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 26 20:25:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA02807 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:25:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [192.41.71.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02799 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from castle (root@ip210.konnections.com [192.41.71.210]) by mail.konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA11118; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:24:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <333B46BC.499D1CEF@konnections.com> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:19:08 -0700 From: mike allison Organization: Publisher -- Burning Eagle Book Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dkelly@hiwaay.net CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary References: <199703270324.VAA04587@nexgen.hiwaay.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think my whole point was that Woz is a genius. He was making a Disc OS when Gary Kildall was still thinking about it... {Shit, now Gary's fans are going to send Kong after me.... Gary's a GOD too....} -Mike dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > > mike allison said: . . . > integration to interfere with things he'll REALLY need to know in the > > future. This kid could be another Steve WOSNIAK, and we all know how > > bad that could be..... . . . > Hey! You aren't knocking Apple are you? Wozniak is one of my heros. I'll > have to fire up my Limited Edition Wozniak-signature 1.75MB Apple IIgs and > LodeRunner you to death. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 26 20:49:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA03935 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:49:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [128.120.175.23]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03926 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:49:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (dav1-12.calweb.com [207.211.82.12]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA08263; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:54:53 GMT Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id EAA07855; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:49:41 GMT Message-ID: <19970326204940.52913@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:49:40 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Joerg Wunsch Cc: FreeBSD chat list Subject: Re: docs/3092: libedit appears to not be documented References: <199703250839.IAA24931@dragon.nuxi.com> <19970326000442.KW35270@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.67 In-Reply-To: <19970326000442.KW35270@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Wed, Mar 26, 1997 at 12:04:42AM +0100 Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com X-Warning: Mutt Bites! Organization: The NUXI *BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >Fix: > > > > ... > > > > >Audit-Trail: > > >Unformatted: > > Ooops. Your PR seems to have been corrupted, please re-submit. Note > the three dots where you've originally been submitting the missing > documentation! Danmed editor... last time I hook emacs up to ``send-pr''. I must have been typing really fast as it was collecting garbage. :-)) -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 27 02:22:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA05195 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:22:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from originat.demon.co.uk (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA05189 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:21:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from paul@localhost) by originat.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.6.9) id KAA01721; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:25:08 GMT To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary References: <19970325233531.XE42511@uriah.heep.sax.de> From: Paul Richards Date: 27 Mar 1997 10:25:07 +0000 In-Reply-To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de's message of Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:35:31 +0100 Message-ID: <87d8sl7hto.fsf@originat.demon.co.uk> Lines: 27 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) writes: > > As Guy Helmer wrote: > > > It's been five years this month since FreeBSD's ancestor, 386BSD 0.0, hit > > the streets. Anyone remember how much fun it was to install? > > Yeah. I had to buy another disk (since it occupied an entire disk > only, and i wasn't ready for getting rid of DOS by that time :), and > to ``borrow'' a coprocessor from my employer that happened to sit > around idling there. ;-) Later on, i've got very used to the idea of I remember the huge stack of floppies it required! In those days UK universities weren't very well connected to the internet and I had to download the whole lot to a VAX box and then transfer it across the campus lan to a pc and then copy it all onto floppies. It was a fun time though. The ancestor of the if_lnc driver made its first appearance for 386BSD 0.0 because my pc had very little disk space and the first thing I wanted to do was NFS mount some spare space from my Sun. Writing an ethernet driver for a barely runnable kernel was serious fun :-) -- Dr Paul Richards, Originative Solutions Ltd. Internet: paul@originat.demon.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (UK Mobile) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 27 10:01:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA03612 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03584 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:56:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id DAA03289 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 03:24:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA20213; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 03:24:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703271124.DAA20213@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: ftp-stats@wcarchive.cdrom.com, chat@freebsd.org, tech@cdrom.com Subject: Re: Dual Log Stats - 1997/03/27 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 03:13:30 PST." <199703271113.DAA08868@wcarchive.cdrom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 03:24:22 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > *** Statistics for : Mar 27, 1997 *** ... > Files transferred : 797,051 > Bytes transferred : 151,935,840,008 ... > Total FTP HTTP FTP HTTP Total Total >Archive Name Bytes(k) Bytes(k) Bytes(k) Files Files %Bytes %Files >-------------- ------------ ----------- ----------- ------ ------ ------ ------ >_FreeBSD 54,198,632 54,103,670 94,962 296321 796 35.67 37.28 >_simtelnet 16,585,897 11,923,681 4,662,215 30536 13883 10.92 5.57 >_linux 16,187,901 15,492,681 695,220 66349 6258 10.65 9.11 >_gamesdomain 15,847,665 15,797,305 50,360 2592 140 10.43 0.34 >_idgames 9,817,502 9,054,201 763,300 23640 5736 6.46 3.69 >_games 7,985,608 7,716,075 269,533 20310 3863 5.26 3.03 >_idgames2 7,697,444 5,410,150 2,287,294 30627 15019 5.07 5.73 >_demos 6,602,077 4,990,765 1,611,311 18276 16165 4.35 4.32 >_povray 2,697,888 2,639,009 58,878 1617 571 1.78 0.27 >_windows 2,010,195 1,711,373 298,822 4236 5586 1.32 1.23 >_XFree86 1,637,045 1,628,506 8,539 2035 47 1.08 0.26 >_tex 1,554,435 1,427,246 127,189 25952 1903 1.02 3.49 >_dresden 967,223 792,952 174,271 2407 1784 0.64 0.53 ... 151.9GB is new one-day traffic record for wcarchive. The previous record was 148.3GB and was set just a week ago on March 20th (actually 19th). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 27 13:15:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA22906 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:15:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA22670; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:13:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199703272113.NAA22670@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary To: paul@originat.demon.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:13:41 -0800 (PST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <87d8sl7hto.fsf@originat.demon.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Mar 27, 97 10:25:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Richards wrote: > > j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) writes: > > > > > As Guy Helmer wrote: > > > > > It's been five years this month since FreeBSD's ancestor, 386BSD 0.0, hit > > > the streets. Anyone remember how much fun it was to install? > > > > Yeah. I had to buy another disk (since it occupied an entire disk > > only, and i wasn't ready for getting rid of DOS by that time :), and > > to ``borrow'' a coprocessor from my employer that happened to sit > > around idling there. ;-) Later on, i've got very used to the idea of > > I remember the huge stack of floppies it required! In those days > UK universities weren't very well connected to the internet and I huge stack of floppies 386/25-sx 80MB scsi disk (stiction ridden, dont power down) st-02 scsi card (glen overby wrote a driver) downloading the distribution over 9600 baud modem in the early morning (this was the corporate internet connection used to get 5kbps on ftp by noon it was down to 900bps) but by God, it worked! jmb ps. and then there was the patchkit ;)) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 27 13:16:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA23138 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:16:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA23130; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:16:31 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199703272116.NAA23130@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Dual Log Stats - 1997/03/27 To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:16:31 -0800 (PST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703271124.DAA20213@root.com> from "David Greenman" at Mar 27, 97 03:24:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > *** Statistics for : Mar 27, 1997 *** ... > Files transferred : 797,051 > Bytes transferred : 151,935,840,008 ... > Total FTP HTTP FTP HTTP Total Total >Archive Name Bytes(k) Bytes(k) Bytes(k) Files Files %Bytes %Files >-------------- ------------ ----------- ----------- ------ ------ ------ ------ >_FreeBSD 54,198,632 54,103,670 94,962 296321 796 35.67 37.28 1/3 of all the data was FreeBSD bits. isnt this a record as well? jmb ps. cc: trimmed to chat@freebsd.org only From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 27 17:57:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA11768 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:57:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen.hiwaay.net (max20-79.HiWAAY.net [208.147.153.79]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11694 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nexgen.hiwaay.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA08696; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:55:51 -0600 (CST) Resent-Message-Id: <199703280155.TAA08696@nexgen.hiwaay.net> Received: from hiwaay.net (nexgen [10.1.0.1]) by nexgen.hiwaay.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA06490 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:27:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from hamby1 by fly.HiWAAY.net; (8.8.5/1.1.8.2/21Sep95-1003PM) id CAA18589; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:13:03 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by hamby1 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id AAA01477 for dkelly@HiWAAY.net; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:13:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:13:14 -0800 From: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Message-Id: <199703270813.AAA01477@hamby1> To: dkelly@HiWAAY.net Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: PWxhsqAcfIJ4k4lXiywtHQ== X-UIDL: 04f4715cad3983a297de036c5eac0d3f Status: RO Resent-To: chat@freebsd.org Resent-cc: jehamby@lightside.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:55:35 -0600 Resent-From: David Kelly Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Kelly writes: > Found an Apple II Plus at an auction recently. Two disk drives, joystick, > and a bunch of original software. Got it for $8. We need a FreeBSD version > of LodeRunner.... LodeRunner was a great game on the Commodore 64 too. Loaded up really quickly, considering the notorious slowness of the 1541 disk drive (due mostly to the inefficient serial protocol used to communicate between the "intelligent" disk drive, which had its own 6502 CPU, and the C-64). But I digress.. I remember playing a LodeRunner clone in X on Linux a long time ago. Looking through the FreeBSD ports collection, I see "golddig" which sounds very similar. Does anyone know if there is a better LodeRunner clone out there? Cheers, Jake From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 27 18:12:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA12393 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:12:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12384 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA23769; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:13:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703280213.SAA23769@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Dual Log Stats - 1997/03/27 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:16:31 PST." <199703272116.NAA23130@freefall.freebsd.org> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:13:57 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> *** Statistics for : Mar 27, 1997 *** >... >> Files transferred : 797,051 >> Bytes transferred : 151,935,840,008 >... >> Total FTP HTTP FTP HTTP Total Total >>Archive Name Bytes(k) Bytes(k) Bytes(k) Files Files %Bytes %Files >>-------------- ------------ ----------- ----------- ------ ------ ------ ------ >>_FreeBSD 54,198,632 54,103,670 94,962 296321 796 35.67 37.28 > > > 1/3 of all the data was FreeBSD bits. > isnt this a record as well? I don't know if it's a record. I'm not sure it really matters, either, since the high FreeBSD totals are due to the just re-released 2.2.1...and this always happens when we do a release. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 27 19:54:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA16872 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:54:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen.hiwaay.net (max20-79.HiWAAY.net [208.147.153.79]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16865 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:54:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nexgen.hiwaay.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA09334; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:52:58 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703280352.VAA09334@nexgen.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: dg@root.com cc: chat@freebsd.org From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Dual Log Stats - 1997/03/27 In-reply-to: Message from David Greenman of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:13:57 PST." <199703280213.SAA23769@root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:52:56 -0600 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman wrote: [about FreeBSD download statistics] > I don't know if it's a record. I'm not sure it really matters, either, > since the high FreeBSD totals are due to the just re-released 2.2.1...and > this always happens when we do a release. Release or not, a record is a record. No doubt the wcarchive record was partially due to the FreeBSD release? Maybe we can coordinate and get Quake III, Doom V, Slackware 4.0 and FreeBSD 3.0 all released the same week? ;-) Maybe we can melt CRL's ATM line... Its time for bed. I'm getting silly. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 27 20:18:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA17906 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA17899 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:18:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA24282; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:19:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703280419.UAA24282@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dkelly@hiwaay.net cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Dual Log Stats - 1997/03/27 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:52:56 CST." <199703280352.VAA09334@nexgen.hiwaay.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:19:49 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >David Greenman wrote: >[about FreeBSD download statistics] >> I don't know if it's a record. I'm not sure it really matters, either, >> since the high FreeBSD totals are due to the just re-released 2.2.1...and >> this always happens when we do a release. > >Release or not, a record is a record. No doubt the wcarchive record was >partially due to the FreeBSD release? Right. >Maybe we can coordinate and get Quake III, Doom V, Slackware 4.0 and >FreeBSD 3.0 all released the same week? ;-) Many of the records that we set are due to simultaneous releases of various things. Just FreeBSD 2.1.7.1 and 2.2.1 this time, plus higher levels of traffic across all of the other archives. >Maybe we can melt CRL's ATM line... (they have many, but...) I'm going to have to change the FTP login message pretty soon since CRL is starting to upgrade to OC3 (which, incidently, is partially due to a certain FTP colo customer :-)). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 27 20:51:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA19220 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.research.megasoft.com (gw.research.megasoft.com [206.230.35.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19208 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:50:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gw.research.megasoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3-cmcurtin) id XAA01112; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:53:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from goffette.research.megasoft.com(192.168.1.2) by gw.research.megasoft.com via smap (V1.3) id sma001110; Thu Mar 27 23:53:13 1997 Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by goffette.research.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA25347; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:50:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:50:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703280450.XAA25347@goffette.research.megasoft.com> From: C Matthew Curtin To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Andrew Perry , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <27919.859223994@time.cdrom.com> References: <27919.859223994@time.cdrom.com> Comments: Hyperbole mail buttons accepted, v04.01. X-Face: "&>g(&eGr?u^F:nFihL%BsyS1[tCqG7}I2rGk4{aKJ5I_5A\*6RYn4"N.`1pPF9LO!Fa<(gj:12)?=uP2l01e10Gij"7j&-)torL^iBrNf\s7PDLm=rf[PjxtSbZ{J(@@j"q2/iV9^Mx>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: Jordan> I suggest firing off angry letters to the various ISPs Jordan> involved whenever this happens (I do). Enough letters and you Jordan> can guarantee that the user(s) involved will generally be Jordan> toast afterwards. In more extreme cases, I use "whois" and Jordan> make some phone calls. Me too... Here's a form letter that I have... I fill in the various pieces, and add any necessary customization, PGP sign it, and fire it off. I actually get a fair number of notes from the ISPs a day or two later informing me that the problem has been dealt with. Also, I scan the text for any URLs... if they're advertising a web site, I copy this to the contacts of those hosting or feedin the site, and also look in the headers for an ad about which spam software was used. (I collect all of these, and like to bounce a copy of every spam I get to every one of the spam-software vendors :-) One spammer kept changing ISPs, after being killed from every one he blasted his spam from. I dug around and found a domain name that he registered and called him on the phone. I was very clear and direct in stating my extreme distaste with his apparant inability to play well with others, and he assured me that I'd receive no more of his ads. ------------------------- begin form letter -------------------------- The following SPAM came in from perhaps initiated by This spammer appears to be a customer of which is a customer of which is a customer of Contacts for all of these zones have been copied. Spamming is an intolerable abuse of our already overworked finite shared resources for the purpose of selfish, shameless personal profit. Please insititute a strong anit-spam policy, and refuse service for people who seem so hell-bent on killing what's left of the 'net. Please refer to http://www.vix.com/spam/ for more information. Thank you for dealing with spammers appropriately. If you have need of contacting me further, please feel free to do so. Email is by far the best way to reach me. Matt Curtin Chief Scientist Megasoft Online 819 Highway 33 East Freehold NJ 07728 +1 908 431 5300 x295 cmcurtin@research.megasoft.com ----------------------------- end letter ----------------------------- -- Matt Curtin Chief Scientist Megasoft, Inc. cmcurtin@research.megasoft.com http://www.research.megasoft.com/people/cmcurtin/ I speak only for myself Hacker Security Firewall Crypto PGP Privacy Unix Perl Java Internet Intranet From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 27 21:17:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA20079 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:17:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20073 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:17:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA14458 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:16:42 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:16:41 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SPAM In-Reply-To: <199703280450.XAA25347@goffette.research.megasoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks everyone who responded to my question about spam. And once again my apologies for copying the whole thing to the list, one of the reasons spam is bad is that it clogs bandwidth and I was just contributing to the problem. I sent a message to worldnet.att.net about this one and received an automated reply, this was better than the message that i sent to a vax site who never responded but not as good as the message i sent to another site who got back to me to say that he'd terminated the account of the user in question :-) For anyone who's interested I found some interesting links about spam and how to deal with it: "http://www.vix.com/spam//" "http://www.panix.com/e-spam.html" "http://kryten.eng.monash.edu.au/gspam.html" This whole exercise I found very educational, SPAM is everyone's problem and we'll be working to make sure that our site doesn't contribute to the problem. Thanks Again Andrew Perry andrew@shoal.net.au From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 27 23:12:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA24691 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA24686 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:12:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA02532; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:12:21 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:12:21 -0800 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199703280712.XAA02532@kithrup.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) Newsgroups: kithrup.freebsd.chat In-Reply-To: <199703280450.XAA25347.kithrup.freebsd.chat@goffette.research.megasoft.com> References: <27919.859223994@time.cdrom.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199703280450.XAA25347.kithrup.freebsd.chat@goffette.research.megasoft.com> you write: >Jordan> I suggest firing off angry letters to the various ISPs >Jordan> involved whenever this happens (I do). >Me too... > >Here's a form letter that I have... There are several things you can do, in addition. 1. Install and use procmail; I have it as my local mailer. Then I have a .procmailrc that has lines like: :0: * ^.*207.147.201.46 |/usr/bin/mail worldnet.att.net@abuse.net :0: * ^From:.*jjcp@micron.net |$HOME/bin/bounce micron.net@abuse.net :0: * ^Received:.*sallynet.com |/usr/bin/mail policy@access.digex.net 2. Net/2 and later have a nice "reject" feature for 'route'. So you can do things like: echo -n 'Adding route black holes: ' echo -n 'Cyberpromo' ; route add -net 205.199.212.0 127.0.0.1 -reject echo -n 'SallyNet' ; route add -net 207.238.142.0 127.0.0.1 -reject echo -n 'Earthlink' ; route add -net 204.119.177.0 127.0.0.1 -reject (that's in my /etc/rc.local). netstat -r shows: Routing tables Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use IfaceMTU Rtt 204.119.177 localhost UGR 0 1 lo0 - - ispam localhost UGR 0 25 lo0 - - sallynet localhost UGR 0 380 lo0 - - Note that the 'ispam' (cyberpromotions) has a use of 25 -- one is from me (I did a traceroute without realizing what it was); the others are because they sent out a massive email spam last night. It never got to me, because, for a variety of reasons, CP doesn't use a mail transport agent, they have a program that connects directly to a machine's SMTP port. (sallynet did manage to get through, because of my various MX holders, only one of which I control. *sigh*) 3. Disable mail relaying in sendmail. See http://www.sendmail.org/antispam.html. 4. Lastly, learn who to complain to, and about. Complaining to AGIS about Cyber Promotions will do no good -- AGIS does not care. Complaining to Sprint is sometimes effective, but very slowly; same with MCI. Netcom and AOL have very good responses. But learn to tell *where* a message really comes from. And never, never, never mailbomb or otherwise try to flood an apparant spammer! (Uh, yeah, this occupies a bit of my time. I cancelled over 600 usenet posts today, sent out four complaints about email spam, and spent 15 minutes on the phone with an ISP in florida to tell them about the idiot who was posting the 600 posts that I was cancelling. *sigh*) Sean. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 28 00:52:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA28374 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:52:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA28366 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:52:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA17572 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:51:59 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA21264; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:33:09 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970328093309.KZ05370@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:33:09 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) References: <27919.859223994@time.cdrom.com> <199703280712.XAA02532@kithrup.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703280712.XAA02532@kithrup.com>; from Sean Eric Fagan on Mar 27, 1997 23:12:21 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > 2. Net/2 and later have a nice "reject" feature for 'route'. So you can do > things like: > > echo -n 'Adding route black holes: ' > echo -n 'Cyberpromo' ; route add -net 205.199.212.0 127.0.0.1 -reject > echo -n 'SallyNet' ; route add -net 207.238.142.0 127.0.0.1 -reject > echo -n 'Earthlink' ; route add -net 204.119.177.0 127.0.0.1 -reject The only drawback of this is that all the MXes will also have to do it. I doubt i can convince my provider for this, but i need his MX in case our link is down temporarily. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 28 05:20:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA10207 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (0@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA10200 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:20:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA23649; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:20:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA25737; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:22:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:22:59 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: C Matthew Curtin cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SPAM -- Aren't you the person....? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199703280450.XAA25347@goffette.research.megasoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, C Matthew Curtin wrote: > Here's a form letter that I have... I fill in the various pieces, and [snip] > ------------------------- begin form letter -------------------------- [snip] > shared resources for the purpose of selfish, shameless personal > profit. Please insititute a strong anit-spam policy, and refuse s/anit\-spam/anti-spam/ -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 28 11:17:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA27903 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [207.198.1.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA27893 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:17:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA18671; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:33:50 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199703281733.MAA18671@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: Mutual Link Proposal (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199703281835.KAA25589@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "Mar 28, 97 10:35:15 am" To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:33:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > yes, both mkljk.com and dinojump.com have been > banished from the lists. > > interactive inflatibles! what's next phone sex via > irc or iphone? multicast? I thought Jordan as publicity director could have followed up on that one - a giant inflatable daemon in the Macy's parade steerable from the FreeBSD home page would have been good publicity. -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 29 16:17:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23195 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 16:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from papillon.lemis.de (papillon.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.74]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23189; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 16:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id MAA00699; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:39:51 +1030 (CST) From: grog@lemis.de Message-Id: <199703280209.MAA00699@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Re: BSD Anniversary In-Reply-To: from Guy Helmer at "Mar 24, 97 09:36:37 pm" To: ghelmer@cs.iastate.edu (Guy Helmer) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:39:51 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/~grog X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Guy Helmer writes: > It's been five years this month since FreeBSD's ancestor, 386BSD 0.0, hit > the streets. Anyone remember how much fun it was to install? How time flies! It's also been the 5th anniversary of the release of BSD/386 version 0.31, which I installed (I think--from memory) on 19 March 1992. At the time, BSD/386 was obviously in *much* better shape than 386BSD. I can't pretend that the installation was as easy as modern versions of FreeBSD--in particular, disk setup still required lots of calculation--but even at the time, it beat the socks off the commercial System V offerings I had used (in particular Inactive UNIX). In general, I was very pleasantly surprised by BSD/386. I came from a System V background (apart from Interactive and XENIX "System V", I also worked for Tandem with their System V offerings), and there was always a hint of "Bezerkeley" in references to BSD. In the last five years, I've been completely converted, and have come to recognize how important the lack of commercial pressure (and its consequent requirement of justifying modifications) is to software quality. I find that this particular aspect has reared its head in the BSD camp: I started with BSD/386, and still have a 4 machine license, but I'm using it less and less in favour of FreeBSD. Full marks to the FreeBSD team, but I'm still a little sad that BSDI hasn't quite taken up the position I expected them to. Greg