From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 06:30:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12179 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 06:30:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12170; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 06:30:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711301430.GAA12170@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) To: softweyr@xmission.com (Wes Peters) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 06:30:48 -0800 (PST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3480FD6F.167EB0E7@xmission.com> from "Wes Peters" at Nov 29, 97 10:45:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wes Peters wrote: > > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > I think people shouldn't be too put out by these occasional > incidents. > > There are some good ones about texas rednecks and "we just wanted to > > know what the lord of darkness was doing on your chest, Maam?" which > > involve our little mascot and go back several decades. If it proves > > anything at all, it's that there are still religious elements in > > various western societies who'd probably be a lot happier living in > > someplace like Iran and should probably move there at the first > > opportunity. :) > > Yup. I have a sticker in the back window of my car (actually a Toyota > 4x4 with a shell) from my ISP. They're pretty much a bunch of tech- > heads stuck (by their own choice) here behind the "Zion Curtain." Some "Zion Curtain."???????? know of Zion Gate, Mount Zion, but not "Zion Curtain." > of the locals don't take to kindly to my window sticker, which reads > "God uses UNIX." My fellow churchmembers don't seem to mind. ;^) > > Tangential story: the first two UNIX systems back at dear old > Clyde/Raxco/Axent, which was chock full of BYU graduates, were named > Ebed and Melech. Two netdollars to the first contributor who say why > they were given such odd names. ;^) > transliteration form Hebrew words for slave, servant and king. jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 08:33:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA16615 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 08:33:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA16610 for chat; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 08:33:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711301633.IAA16610@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: vixie's rbl To: chat Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 08:33:42 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org anyone know of an address that is in vixie's rbl? http://maps.vix.com/cgi-bin/lookup tried several, i aint hit one yet ;( jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Core Team, Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 08:51:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA17583 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 08:51:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA17572; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 08:51:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id JAA27651; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:51:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14140; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:50:11 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:50:11 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: vixie's rbl In-Reply-To: <199711301633.IAA16610@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anything in 209.12.111.0/24. Anything in 206.98.108.0/22. Anything in 207.201.213.0/24. (just looking through my mail logs for things I reject as spam and seeing what is listed for them in the rbl...) On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > anyone know of an address that is in vixie's rbl? > http://maps.vix.com/cgi-bin/lookup > > tried several, i aint hit one yet ;( > jmb > -- > Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Core Team, Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG > FreeBSD--The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ > PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB > From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 09:21:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA19371 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:21:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA19358 for chat; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:21:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711301721.JAA19358@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: RE: Change to FreeBSD Mailing lists (fwd) To: chat Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:21:43 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org anyone know enough spanish to translate? jmb karthur wrote: > From karthur@ciudad.com.ar Sun Nov 30 09:14:23 1997 > Reply-To: > From: "karthur" > To: > Cc: > Subject: RE: Change to FreeBSD Mailing lists > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:12:13 -0300 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Priority: 3 > X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Message-ID: <0ad863411171eb7PRIMA6@ciudad.com.ar> > > > HOLA!!!!! No te entendí nada tu mensaje, no se por qué me enviaste un > email, ya que no creo haberme contactado con vos jamás, espero que te fijes > bien quien o quienes te mandan emails ya que no tengo registrado uno a tu > nombre. Y se más claro ya que tu lengua no tengo por que entenderla y de > seguro vos la mía tampoco. Como para vos entender este email te resultará > un poco difícil a mi me pasa lo mismo con el tuyo. GRACIAS CHAU!!!!! > ---------- > > De: Jonathan M. Bresler > > A: freebsd-announce@hub.freebsd.org > > Asunto: Change to FreeBSD Mailing lists > > Fecha: Sábado 29 de Noviembre de 1997 9:13 PM > > > > > > Starting immediately, all mail sent to the FreeBSD mailing > > lists must come from computers with valid DNS records. A computer > > without valid DNS records will receive an error message when sending > > mail to the FreeBSD mailing lists. The mail will be rejected. > > > > We are taking these steps in order to reduce the amount of > > spam that enters the FreeBSD mailing lists. We regret any difficulties > > this may cause. > > > > If you experience problems using the FreeBSD mailing lists, > > Please check your maillogs for the error message "451 Domain does > > not resolve", verify that your DNS records are correct and contact > > me with this information at postmaster@FreeBSD.org. > > > > Thank you, > > jmb > > -- > > Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Core Team, Postmaster > jmb@FreeBSD.ORG > > FreeBSD--The Power to Serve > http://www.freebsd.org/ > > PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E > FB > > > > > > > > This is the moderated mailing list freebsd-announce. > > The list contains announcements of new FreeBSD capabilities, > > important events and project milestones. > > See also the FreeBSD Web pages at http://www.freebsd.org > > > > To unsubscribe from freebsd-announce, sent a mail to > > majordomo@freebsd.org with the body > > > > unsubscribe freebsd-announce > > -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Core Team, Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 09:54:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21196 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:54:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21185 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:54:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (dialin1.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.254.101]) by anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA13548 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:54:23 -0700 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:53:51 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) In-Reply-To: <199711301430.GAA12170@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Yup. I have a sticker in the back window of my car (actually a Toyota > > 4x4 with a shell) from my ISP. They're pretty much a bunch of tech- > > heads stuck (by their own choice) here behind the "Zion Curtain." Some > > "Zion Curtain."???????? > > know of Zion Gate, Mount Zion, but not "Zion Curtain." In Utah and surrounding areas, the word Zion seems to be associated with the Mormon Church, although I am not sure specifically how or why. The major department store is named ZCMI (the Z standing for Zion), there is a Zion National Bank and even a Zion National Park. In the middle 1800s, Brigham Young led a great number of people to settle near the Great Salt Lake. This was and is a tremendously arid and desolate region with no natural rivers to the ocean. The land was unwanted but by a few (everyone else at the time was anxious to get to California). The Mormons chose to irrigate and farm what was considered a wasteland. The early Mormons went through some difficult experiences -- a long migration, near famine and even armed conflict with the U.S. Army in the 1870s -- and I am guessing there was a tendency to draw biblical analogies with their experiences and hence the frequent use of the word Zion. Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 10:04:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA21920 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:04:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA21909 for chat; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:04:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199711301804.KAA21909@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: more translations requested. To: chat Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:04:22 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org if it was about "go" i might be able to read some, but i have never learned "internet-speak" in japanense. jmb Murakami Hiroshi wrote: > From nws830@ca2.so-net.or.jp Sun Nov 30 09:37:18 1997 > Message-Id: <19971130173511.28729.qmail@i386.honkan3.tmca.ac.jp> > From: "Murakami Hiroshi" > Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Change to FreeBSD Mailing lists > To: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG (Jonathan M. Bresler) > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:35:11 +0900 (JST) > In-Reply-To: <199711300013.QAA29478@hub.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "Nov 29, 97 04:13:24 pm" > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > > Starting immediately, all mail sent to the FreeBSD mailing > > lists must come from computers with valid DNS records. A computer > > without valid DNS records will receive an error message when sending > > mail to the FreeBSD mailing lists. The mail will be rejected. > > > > $@>e$NDL$j$@$H$9$k$H!"(JISP $@$K(Jppp dial-up $@$G7R$$$G$$$k$h$&$J(J > $@%f!<%6!<$OGS=|$5$l$F$7$^$&$N$G$9$M!)(J > # $@0c$&$+$J!)(J > -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Core Team, Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 10:19:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22874 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:19:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA22860; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:18:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from softweyr@xmission.com) Received: from obie [199.104.124.49] by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xcDx5-00063l-00; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:18:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3481B04A.794BDF32@xmission.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:28:26 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , Nadav Eiron CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) References: <199711301430.GAA12170@hub.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > "Zion Curtain."???????? > > know of Zion Gate, Mount Zion, but not "Zion Curtain." A local phrase used to describe Utah's rather insular society. You'll find the word Zion used here more often than anywhere outside Israel, I believe. Two of our largest commercial institutions are Zion's Bank and ZCMI, Zion's Cooperative Mercantile Institute (the people who invented the department store). There is even a "Zion's Surviellance." Scary. > > Tangential story: the first two UNIX systems back at dear old > > Clyde/Raxco/Axent, which was chock full of BYU graduates, were named > > Ebed and Melech. Two netdollars to the first contributor who say why > > they were given such odd names. ;^) > > transliteration form Hebrew words for slave, servant and > king. Nadav Eiron similarly answered this: > Well, seems obvious: There was some kind of client/server or master/slave > relationship between them??? (for those wondering, melech is Hebrew for > king, and Eved - Hebrew for slave). Nope. Ebed-melech is the only *eunuch* mentioned by name in the Bible. Jeremiah 38:7-13, if you're interested. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 10:31:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA23809 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:31:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freya.circle.net (freya.circle.net [209.95.95.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA23798 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:31:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tcobb@staff.circle.net) Received: by FREYA with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:32:37 -0500 Message-ID: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A403ABA5@FREYA> From: Troy Cobb To: chat@hub.freebsd.org, "'Jonathan M. Bresler'" Subject: RE: Change to FreeBSD Mailing lists (fwd) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:32:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA23803 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org VERY ROUGHLY TRANSLATED - our vocabulary is a bit rusty: - - - - Hello. I don't mean any problem, but I don't know why you sent me an email, I've never contacted you and have no record of your name. More clearly, I don't understand your language, and you probably don't understand mine. What do you want the result of this email to be, it is a bit difficult for us and also the same for you. Thanks! Bye. - - - - On Sunday, November 30, 1997 12:21 PM, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > anyone know enough spanish to translate? > > HOLA!!!!! No te entendí nada tu mensaje, no se por qué me enviaste un > > email, ya que no creo haberme contactado con vos jamás, espero que te fijes > > bien quien o quienes te mandan emails ya que no tengo registrado uno a tu > > nombre. Y se más claro ya que tu lengua no tengo por que entenderla y de > > seguro vos la mía tampoco. Como para vos entender este email te resultará > > un poco difícil a mi me pasa lo mismo con el tuyo. GRACIAS CHAU!!!!! From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 18:33:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23741 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:33:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23732 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:32:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from bonsai.hiwaay.net (tnt2-26.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.26]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA26994 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:32:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3482225A.33590565@hiwaay.net> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:35:06 -0600 From: Steve Price X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi All, steve[~]$ ftp ftp.cdrom.com Connected to wcarchive.cdrom.com. 220 wcarchive.cdrom.com FTP server (Version DG-2.0.7 Wed Oct 22 02:30:03 PDT 1997) ready. Name (ftp.cdrom.com:steve): anonymous 530-Sorry, the current limit of 2750 users has been reached. 530-Please try again in a few minutes. ... DG-2.0.7, whose ftp server is that? A David Greenman special? :) I wanted to know how the limit on the number of anonymous users was set. I was looking into PR #5109 and not wanting to re-invent the wheel and not yet understanding the login class functions, I thought this might provide some incite into how such a limit can be imposed in our own ftpd. Thanks, Steve From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 19:11:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26518 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:11:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA26509 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:11:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (tc-if2-35.ida.net [208.141.171.92]) by anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id UAA13999; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:10:59 -0700 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:10:23 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: Steve Price cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <3482225A.33590565@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Steve Price wrote: > steve[~]$ ftp ftp.cdrom.com > Connected to wcarchive.cdrom.com. > 220 wcarchive.cdrom.com FTP server (Version DG-2.0.7 Wed Oct 22 02:30:03 > PDT 1997) ready. > Name (ftp.cdrom.com:steve): anonymous > 530-Sorry, the current limit of 2750 users has been reached. > 530-Please try again in a few minutes. > ... When you think about it, 2750 users, each with a distinct forked process (I assume), that is really stunning. I've known about the wcarchive machine for a while, but somehow I never really dwelled on the magnitude of the task. Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 19:40:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA28915 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:40:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA28878 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:40:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA18844; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:40:18 -0800 (PST) To: Steve Price cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:35:06 CST." <3482225A.33590565@hiwaay.net> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:40:17 -0800 Message-ID: <18840.880947617@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Name (ftp.cdrom.com:steve): anonymous > 530-Sorry, the current limit of 2750 users has been reached. > 530-Please try again in a few minutes. > ... > > DG-2.0.7, whose ftp server is that? A David Greenman special? :) Indeed. And before anyone asks, no, he's not giving away the sources. This isn't because they're secret and he's holding out for the Big Bucks or anything like that, it's simply that he doesn't like to release stuff which isn't ready for general consumption, and dg-ftpd is currently a "wcarchive special" which really would need significant documentation and packaging before anyone else could really figure out how to use it. He's also pretty busy now, so don't hold your breath. :) > I wanted to know how the limit on the number of anonymous users > was set. I was looking into PR #5109 and not wanting to re-invent Pretty much empirically - the number is moved around until the machine actually starts to swap and/or interactive performance suffers (and we can have as many as 10-15 active archive maintainers toiling away on there during the day who complain if the number of ftp or www sessions [which number several hundred also]) to the point where they can't work very well. Right now we seem to be bottlenecked on CPU, having eliminated memory starvation with our upgrade to 1GB. At 2750 ftp users, 200-300 www users and 10-20 interactive users (running the most godawfully large perl mirror scripts), we're just out of steam with a single P6/233. One thing we can get immediate relief on is moving the web server to another box entirely, and that's the planned next step. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 20:48:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03802 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:48:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03794 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:48:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from bonsai.hiwaay.net (tnt2-26.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.26]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id WAA00073; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:47:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <348241E7.41C67EA6@hiwaay.net> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:49:43 -0600 From: Steve Price X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com References: <18840.880947617@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Indeed. And before anyone asks, no, he's not giving away the sources. I don't need the sources, just _incite_ into how he limits the number of anonymous users or more succinctly the number of ftpd processes. :) Is the limit derived by a commandline switch to dg-ftpd? Is it some script magic elsewhere on wcarchive? Or is it that he's figured out how to limit it with FreeBSD's new login class routines? BTW, I think Joerg mentioned that it might be a reasonable solution to use the login class routines. And before anybody starts throwing darts at me (especially David Nugent), I haven't really looked into the new login_* routines. So I am not claiming that it would be difficult to rework ftpd to use these routines, only that I haven't yet thoroughly investigated all of my alternatives. :-) Thanks, Steve [remainder of message elided] > > Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 20:54:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA04054 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:54:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04050 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:54:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00927; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:56:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712010456.UAA00927@implode.root.com> To: Steve Price cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:35:06 CST." <3482225A.33590565@hiwaay.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:56:44 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >steve[~]$ ftp ftp.cdrom.com >Connected to wcarchive.cdrom.com. >220 wcarchive.cdrom.com FTP server (Version DG-2.0.7 Wed Oct 22 02:30:03 >PDT 1997) ready. >Name (ftp.cdrom.com:steve): anonymous >530-Sorry, the current limit of 2750 users has been reached. >530-Please try again in a few minutes. >... > >DG-2.0.7, whose ftp server is that? A David Greenman special? :) Yes, written specially for wcarchive (and not released to the public, so please don't ask). >I wanted to know how the limit on the number of anonymous users >was set. I was looking into PR #5109 and not wanting to re-invent >the wheel and not yet understanding the login class functions, I >thought this might provide some incite into how such a limit can >be imposed in our own ftpd. I implemented the limit using (believe it or not) system V shared memory. The login class idea from wu-ftpd is escentially the same, but the implementation in wu-ftpd doesn't scale and is very slow. Why is it slow? Wu-ftpd maintains a file of all of the process IDs for a given class and since this might become stale if an ftpd process should terminate unusually or if the system crashes, it verifies each of the entries by doing a kill(pid, 0) on them. On a machine like wcarchive, this means thousands of kill()'s every time the limit for a class needs to be checked, which is at least once for the login, and perhaps again if the current number is output in the welcome message. Looking for a better way, I noticed one day that system V shared memory keeps a count on the number of processes that have a segment mapped, and further, the attach count is available via shmctl(). Aha. So, I map ("attach") the appropriate shared memory segment into the process (there is one per ftp login class). If the process exits for any reason, normal or abnormal, the system unmaps the shared memory segment and thus always keeps the attach count accurate. This provides a very low overhead way of tracking the current number of users in each class without the need of all of the PID files and verification. Does this make sense? I suppose it can all be quite confusing if you don't know what an "ftp login class" is. Probably best to read the wu-ftp documentation for that. :-) -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 21:00:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04412 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:00:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04406 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:00:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01029; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:02:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712010502.VAA01029@implode.root.com> To: Charles Mott cc: Steve Price , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:10:23 MST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:02:40 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Steve Price wrote: >> steve[~]$ ftp ftp.cdrom.com >> Connected to wcarchive.cdrom.com. >> 220 wcarchive.cdrom.com FTP server (Version DG-2.0.7 Wed Oct 22 02:30:03 >> PDT 1997) ready. >> Name (ftp.cdrom.com:steve): anonymous >> 530-Sorry, the current limit of 2750 users has been reached. >> 530-Please try again in a few minutes. >> ... > >When you think about it, 2750 users, each with a distinct forked process >(I assume), that is really stunning. I've known about the wcarchive >machine for a while, but somehow I never really dwelled on the magnitude >of the task. Yes, "ps" on wcarchive is highly discouraged. :-) -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 21:17:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05503 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:17:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05494 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:17:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA19526; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:17:02 -0800 (PST) To: Steve Price cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:49:43 CST." <348241E7.41C67EA6@hiwaay.net> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:17:02 -0800 Message-ID: <19521.880953422@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I don't need the sources, just _incite_ into how he limits the number > of anonymous users or more succinctly the number of ftpd processes. :) It's done the same as in wu-ftpd, which is what dg-ftpd is derived from. An external config file. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 21:22:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05717 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:22:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05713 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:22:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.99]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id VAA22152; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:22:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id PAA00864; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:28:08 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19971201152807.22360@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:28:07 +1100 From: Greg Lehey To: Charles Mott Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) References: <199711301430.GAA12170@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Charles Mott on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 10:53:51AM -0700 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 10:53:51AM -0700, Charles Mott wrote: >>> Yup. I have a sticker in the back window of my car (actually a Toyota >>> 4x4 with a shell) from my ISP. They're pretty much a bunch of tech- >>> heads stuck (by their own choice) here behind the "Zion Curtain." Some >> >> "Zion Curtain."???????? >> >> know of Zion Gate, Mount Zion, but not "Zion Curtain." > > In Utah and surrounding areas, the word Zion seems to be associated with > the Mormon Church, although I am not sure specifically how or why. The > major department store is named ZCMI (the Z standing for Zion), there is a > Zion National Bank and even a Zion National Park. Could there be a correlation between this and the fact that some English people seem to think that Jerusalem is built in England's fair and pleasant land? Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 21:23:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05805 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:23:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05767; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:23:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.99]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id VAA22188; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:23:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id PAA00874; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:28:58 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19971201152856.41684@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:28:56 +1100 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , Nadav Eiron , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: daemon stories ( german customs ) References: <199711301430.GAA12170@hub.freebsd.org> <3481B04A.794BDF32@xmission.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <3481B04A.794BDF32@xmission.com>; from Wes Peters on Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 11:28:26AM -0700 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Nov 30, 1997 at 11:28:26AM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: >> "Zion Curtain."???????? >> >> know of Zion Gate, Mount Zion, but not "Zion Curtain." > > A local phrase used to describe Utah's rather insular society. You'll > find > the word Zion used here more often than anywhere outside Israel, I > believe. > Two of our largest commercial institutions are Zion's Bank and ZCMI, > Zion's > Cooperative Mercantile Institute (the people who invented the department > store). Aaarggh! You're mutilating your mail again. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 30 22:09:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA09413 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:09:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09407 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:08:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01622; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:11:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712010611.WAA01622@implode.root.com> To: Steve Price cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:49:43 CST." <348241E7.41C67EA6@hiwaay.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 22:11:19 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> >> Indeed. And before anyone asks, no, he's not giving away the sources. > >I don't need the sources, just _incite_ into how he limits the number >of anonymous users or more succinctly the number of ftpd processes. :) >Is the limit derived by a commandline switch to dg-ftpd? Is it some >script magic elsewhere on wcarchive? Or is it that he's figured out >how to limit it with FreeBSD's new login class routines? It uses an "ftpaccess" configuration file that has a format similar to wu-ftpd, although significantly different in some areas. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 01:47:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA24833 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:47:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA24803; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:47:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (tc-if2-35.ida.net [208.141.171.92]) by anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id CAA14350; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:46:59 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:46:22 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199712010456.UAA00927@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I implemented the limit using (believe it or not) system V shared memory. > The login class idea from wu-ftpd is escentially the same, but the > implementation in wu-ftpd doesn't scale and is very slow. Why is it slow? > Wu-ftpd maintains a file of all of the process IDs for a given class and > since this might become stale if an ftpd process should terminate unusually > or if the system crashes, it verifies each of the entries by doing a > kill(pid, 0) on them. On a machine like wcarchive, this means thousands of > kill()'s every time the limit for a class needs to be checked, which is at > least once for the login, and perhaps again if the current number is output > in the welcome message. Looking for a better way, I noticed one day that > system V shared memory keeps a count on the number of processes that have a > segment mapped, and further, the attach count is available via shmctl(). Aha. > So, I map ("attach") the appropriate shared memory segment into the process > (there is one per ftp login class). If the process exits for any reason, > normal or abnormal, the system unmaps the shared memory segment and thus > always keeps the attach count accurate. This provides a very low overhead > way of tracking the current number of users in each class without the need > of all of the PID files and verification. This is a really interesting way to do things. Question: is there anything unreliable about using waitpid() to see which processes have terminated? Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 02:19:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA26854 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:19:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA26809; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:18:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA03882; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:21:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712011021.CAA03882@implode.root.com> To: Charles Mott cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:46:22 MST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:21:13 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> always keeps the attach count accurate. This provides a very low overhead >> way of tracking the current number of users in each class without the need >> of all of the PID files and verification. > >This is a really interesting way to do things. Question: is there >anything unreliable about using waitpid() to see which processes have >terminated? The answer to this would become obvious the first time you needed to restart the main server process. :-) -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 02:26:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA27388 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:26:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA27351; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:25:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03063; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 02:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712011025.CAA03063@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Charles Mott cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:46:22 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 02:25:51 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dumb question , Are the any plans to re-write the ftp daemon to use aio routines and use fewer processes to serve connections. Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 05:36:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA08137 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 05:36:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA08130 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 05:36:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA05246; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 05:38:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712011338.FAA05246@implode.root.com> To: Wolfram Schneider cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "01 Dec 1997 14:23:03 +0100." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 05:38:33 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >David Greenman writes: >> >When you think about it, 2750 users, each with a distinct forked process >> >(I assume), that is really stunning. I've known about the wcarchive >> >machine for a while, but somehow I never really dwelled on the magnitude >> >of the task. >> >> Yes, "ps" on wcarchive is highly discouraged. :-) > >Does killall(1) and top(1) still works? top works and is frequently used. killall is too scarey for me to think about. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 06:07:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA09744 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:07:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA09726 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:07:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199712011404.JAA07368@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:08:09 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: David Kelly cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crapintosh bashing, was:Re: cdrecord In-Reply-To: <199711280141.TAA21099@nospam.hiwaay.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, David Kelly wrote: > There is an awful lot of good that has come from Apple and the Mac. I > was glad to hear Rhapsody was taking a BSD slant. Give me a Mac, or > give me Unix, preferably both. I have no use for Windows. Of all the machines on my network, the Macs are the ones I have to deal with the least. Plug something in and it works, everytime. MacOS could be alot better, but I am sure Rhapsody will address most if not all of the current deficiencies. I love the way Macs handle multiple monitors as well. Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 06:08:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA09868 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:08:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA09852 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:08:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from panke.panke.de (anonymous215.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.215]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28267; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:27:30 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by panke.panke.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA00568; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:23:04 +0100 (MET) To: dg@root.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com References: <199712010502.VAA01029@implode.root.com> From: Wolfram Schneider Date: 01 Dec 1997 14:23:03 +0100 In-Reply-To: David Greenman's message of Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:02:40 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 12 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Greenman writes: > >When you think about it, 2750 users, each with a distinct forked process > >(I assume), that is really stunning. I've known about the wcarchive > >machine for a while, but somehow I never really dwelled on the magnitude > >of the task. > > Yes, "ps" on wcarchive is highly discouraged. :-) Does killall(1) and top(1) still works? -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.apfel.de/~wosch/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 06:54:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12566 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:54:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA12549 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:54:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199712011443.JAA07461@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:47:20 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Greg Lehey cc: mika ruohotie , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: <19971129155438.60843@lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We have the domain html.com. We have had it for over 3 years now, but recently millions of spam messages have gone out on the net with a from line of 1234567@html.com (the address is always some random number). All the bounce messages come our server, despite the fact that we didn't send them. I had to remove the server's ability to recieve mail at html.com about 2 weeks ago, as it was getting several hundred return mails a minute. It now routes all mail to @html.com to /dev/null. Not that it stops my mailbox from filling up with requests from people who don't know how to read a fscking header who send mail to us whining about being removed from our lists. *sigh* On Sat, 29 Nov 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sat, Nov 29, 1997 at 12:22:17AM +0200, mika ruohotie wrote: > > uh, i think this would go best here on chat, it's an isp issue too, > > but not really, i dunno. > > > > anyway, just a question if anyone else have noticed that their > > domain has been used in spamming. i mean, not as a relay, but as > > a NAME. > > Yes, it happened to me last night. Something in uunet was using my > mail servers (freebie.lemis.com and allegro.lemis.com) to send out > spam. I stopped the mail server on allegro (which is really just > running a high-pri MX), and left these headers in the spool: > > V2 > T880710622 > K880717164 > N5 > P1114943 > I0/4/731 > MDeferred: 451 ... Domain must resolve > $rSMTP > $sALLEGRO.LEMIS.COM > $_1Cust80.tnt18.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.118.80] > S > RPFD: > H?P?Return-Path: > HReceived: from ALLEGRO.LEMIS.COM (1Cust80.tnt18.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.118.80]) > by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA15710; > Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:20:22 +1030 (CST) > H?D?Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:20:22 +1030 (CST) > H?F?From: WebSecrets@WebSecrets.Net > H?M?Message-Id: <199711280950.UAA15710@allegro.lemis.com> > HSubject: Search Engine Secrets > . > > I installed hub's version of sendmail.cf, added WebSecrets.Net and > SecretsOfTheNet.Com (another one) to the black list. They tried > again, were rejected, and apparently gave up. I've sent complaints to > uunet--let's see how far they get. > > > mickey "yes, i'm fucking frustrated" > > Yup, I was pretty angry, too. > > Greg > Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 09:01:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21100 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:01:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21089 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:01:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA12145; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:01:33 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:01:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: Jamie Bowden cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: <199712011443.JAA07461@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Please excuse any vague assumptions. I'm good at them!] On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Jamie Bowden wrote: > We have the domain html.com. We have had it for over 3 years now, but > recently millions of spam messages have gone out on the net with a from > line of 1234567@html.com (the address is always some random number). All > the bounce messages come our server, despite the fact that we didn't send > them. I had to remove the server's ability to recieve mail at html.com > about 2 weeks ago, as it was getting several hundred return mails a > minute. It now routes all mail to @html.com to /dev/null. Not > that it stops my mailbox from filling up with requests from people who > don't know how to read a fscking header who send mail to us whining about > being removed from our lists. *sigh* Why not send an automated reply to all the people who sent you the mail asking them also to complain to whoever it is who is sending the junk mails in the first place, or if you can't find out who is originally sending them get yourself (some account you don't care about!) on the mailing list, so at least you can see the headers. I would hope that someone out there who is responsible for this junk mail is reasonable enough to fake mail from some nonexistant address, especially if you ask them nicely. If not, and if they refuse your quite reasonable request to stop spamming with your email address you can take it up legally with their service provider as they are fraudulently pretending to be you (especially if you set up an account which accepts all mail to @html.com). You've got a case of someone pretending to be you, I'd hope that US law doesn't like that, and you can probably put someone either out of business or in some fairly deep water. SPAM is one thing, 'framing' (!) someone is another bucket of 'something-horrible' altogether. If their service provider doesn't want to know, how about the US courts, I don'y know about you, but if someone started spamming in my name (or on my behalf ?) I'd make damn sure they were sorry, even if it did include hiring some laywers. Steve. Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 09:10:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21731 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:10:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21719 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:10:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (dialin1.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.254.101]) by anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA15113 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:10:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:09:55 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: <199712011443.JAA07461@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Jamie Bowden wrote: > We have the domain html.com. We have had it for over 3 years now, but > recently millions of spam messages have gone out on the net with a from > line of 1234567@html.com (the address is always some random number). All > the bounce messages come our server, despite the fact that we didn't send > them. I had to remove the server's ability to recieve mail at html.com > about 2 weeks ago, as it was getting several hundred return mails a > minute. It now routes all mail to @html.com to /dev/null. Not > that it stops my mailbox from filling up with requests from people who > don't know how to read a fscking header who send mail to us whining about > being removed from our lists. *sigh* Although you certainly have a clear civil case against the person who wrote the spam software forging html.com and the spammers actually using it, the costs of pursuing it would be too expensive. Possibly a criminal statute is being violated and you could get a U.S. attorney interested. (Just donate some money to the DNC -- they're desperate for money and have a solid record of arranging special government services for their donors.) These spammers are a huge problem. I don't think legal methods can work, either. Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 09:27:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23435 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:27:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA23417 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:26:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199712011724.MAA08108@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:27:39 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Stephen Roome cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Stephen Roome wrote: > Why not send an automated reply to all the people who sent you the mail > asking them also to complain to whoever it is who is sending the junk > mails in the first place, or if you can't find out who is originally > sending them get yourself (some account you don't care about!) on the > mailing list, so at least you can see the headers. > > I would hope that someone out there who is responsible for this junk mail > is reasonable enough to fake mail from some nonexistant address, > especially if you ask them nicely. > > If not, and if they refuse your quite reasonable request to stop spamming > with your email address you can take it up legally with their service > provider as they are fraudulently pretending to be you (especially if you > set up an account which accepts all mail to @html.com). > > You've got a case of someone pretending to be you, I'd hope that US law > doesn't like that, and you can probably put someone either out of business > or in some fairly deep water. SPAM is one thing, 'framing' (!) someone is > another bucket of 'something-horrible' altogether. > > If their service provider doesn't want to know, how about the US courts, I > don'y know about you, but if someone started spamming in my name (or on my > behalf ?) I'd make damn sure they were sorry, even if it did include > hiring some laywers. > > Steve. > > Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. > Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 > WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ > The headers all point to a class a that doesn't route. I think our domain was put into some piece of spamware. They all pass through a relay server, and all have forged headers. I don't think the morons who send spam have the knowledge for this. Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 11:14:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA04201 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:14:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super.zippo.com (perry.zippo.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04196 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:14:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reyesf@super.zippo.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by super.zippo.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) id LAA15817; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:13:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712011913.LAA15817@super.zippo.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSD Chat List" Cc: "grog@lemis.com" Date: Mon, 01 Dec 97 14:15:33 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.9 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Whois Doug White? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Moved to chat. >On Sat, Nov 29, 1997 at 08:40:57AM -0500, Cliff Addy wrote: >> Hey Doug, who exactly are you? You seem to be "the man" when it comes to >> getting an answer on this list, I know that you seem to answer about 90% >> of *my* questions (and correctly, I might add). You don't seem to be >> listed as one of the "official" FreeBSD team members. Just curious ... > >Doug's not a man, he's a 4-CPU FreeBSD SMP machine. What else could >answer 40 messages in 80 minutes? :-) Don't spare details. It is the super secret completed port to the Alpha. It is not only 4-CPUs. They are 700Mhz CPUs with multithreading already implemented in the kernel. :-) On a more serious notes. I can't count the number of times I have seen Doug help people including myself. We should get him a Christmas gift. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 12:14:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA10597 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:14:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerberus.partsnow.com (gatekeeper.partsnow.com [207.155.26.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10577 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:13:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from don@partsnow.com) Received: (from bin@localhost) by cerberus.partsnow.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id EAA25159 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 04:12:06 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cerberus.partsnow.com: bin set sender to using -f Received: from wildeweb(192.168.100.10) by cerberus.partsnow.com via smap (V2.0) id xma025154; Mon, 1 Dec 97 04:12:01 -0800 Message-ID: <34831A3F.BF89D2AE@partsnow.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 12:12:48 -0800 From: Don Wilde Organization: Soligen, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Whois Doug White? References: <199712011913.LAA15817@super.zippo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On a more serious notes. I can't count the number of times I have > seen Doug help people including myself. We should get him a Christmas > gift. Revision III of The Complete FreeBSD, maybe? ;))) It's the perfect gift for _everybody_ on your Christmas list... -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ ________ _________ _________ ___==_ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [don@PartsNow.com] [http://www.PartsNow.com ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo--ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo--oo  From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 13:44:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA22352 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:44:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22342 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:44:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id WAA08570 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:44:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA11247; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:20:03 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971201222002.15524@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:20:02 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp server on ftp.cdrom.com Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <199712011338.FAA05246@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199712011338.FAA05246@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Mon, Dec 01, 1997 at 05:38:33AM -0800 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As David Greenman wrote: > >Does killall(1) and top(1) still works? > > top works and is frequently used. killall is too scarey for me to think > about. Hehehe, "killall ftpd". :-)) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 13:45:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA22479 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:45:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22469 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:45:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id WAA08611; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:45:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA11310; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:41:57 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971201224156.35000@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:41:56 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: FreeBSD chat list Cc: John Fieber , Alex Subject: Re: Out of Box experience (Was: Re: How is selection made of what goes into CDrom?) Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from John Fieber on Mon, Dec 01, 1997 at 10:12:58AM -0500 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (redirected to -chat) As John Fieber wrote: > > Speaking of an out of box experience, KDE works quite nicely. > I'm not too enthusiastic about the implementation, at this stage > at least. The basic required processes suck up unreasonable > amounts of RAM and my X server bloats to almost twice the size I > usually see it at. In the end, my 64MB machine feels like it has > about 32MB. Ain't it a nice Windoze emulation? ``We promise to make your machine as slow as it were under Windoze.'' :-) I personally find CDE (and Motif in general, for that matter) rather ugly-looking. While i'm a long-term fvwm user, i would certainly rather agree to use qvwm on my desktop than i would volunteerely use CDE or a lookalike of it on any machine i'm using for daily work. If they hadn't broken cut&paste that badly, i would be impressed by the simplicity and yet prettiness of the OpenView look&feel. (Of course, not by their code quality. :-] I've once tried to port OpenView to 386BSD, but gave up. Others seem to have succeeded, and i appreciate their work.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 17:10:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10712 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:10:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10694 for chat; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:10:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199712020110.RAA10694@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: a little laugh To: chat Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:10:06 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org in today's requests for subscription approvals for the FreeBSD mailing lists these few lines appeared: "for.your" approve PASSWORD subscribe freebsd-questions bahamas@vjmlc.com "for.your" approve PASSWORD subscribe freebsd-questions askew@elan-yital.com "for.your" % whois spam.com Hormel Foods Corporation (SPAM5-DOM) 1 Hormel Place Austin, MN 55912 US Domain Name: SPAM.COM Administrative Contact: Nauman, James (JN600) 7308356@MCIMAIL.COM 507-437-5688 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Stark, James (JS3189) 2103949@MCIMAIL.COM 507-437-5786 Record last updated on 23-May-97. Record created on 05-Sep-96. Database last updated on 1-Dec-97 05:18:56 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: GUARDIAN.HORMEL.COM 206.10.25.254 NS.SPAM.COM 206.10.25.251 The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information (Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's). Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information. so now we know where it all comes from. i'll call their ISP now...... jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 17:59:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA13902 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:59:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13862 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:59:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-132.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.132]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA17307; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:58:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA05538; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:58:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712020158.TAA05538@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jamie Bowden cc: Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-reply-to: Message from Jamie Bowden of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:47:20 EST." <199712011443.JAA07461@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:58:18 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > We have the domain html.com. We have had it for over 3 years now, but > recently millions of spam messages have gone out on the net with a from > line of 1234567@html.com (the address is always some random number). All > the bounce messages come our server, despite the fact that we didn't send > them. I had to remove the server's ability to recieve mail at html.com > about 2 weeks ago, as it was getting several hundred return mails a > minute. It now routes all mail to @html.com to /dev/null. Not > that it stops my mailbox from filling up with requests from people who > don't know how to read a fscking header who send mail to us whining about > being removed from our lists. *sigh* I've often wondered if problems like this couldn't be solved cheaply with lawyers. Yes, I said "cheap" and "lawyer" in the same sentence. The idea goes something like this, you advertise for a law firm, publicly. You offer a deal whereby you forward all your spam to the law firm. The law firm gets to keep any $ they collect from spammers. The law firm pays you time and material for a connection to your ISP and any support required in court. Wonder if it would work? -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 18:36:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA16623 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:36:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dns (dns.ida.net [204.228.203.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16619 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:36:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (pm-if3-4.ida.net [204.228.203.163]) by dns (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id TAA27144 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:30:43 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:36:01 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: <199712020158.TAA05538@nospam.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, David Kelly wrote: > > We have the domain html.com. We have had it for over 3 years now, but > > recently millions of spam messages have gone out on the net with a from > > line of 1234567@html.com (the address is always some random number). All > > the bounce messages come our server, despite the fact that we didn't send > > them. I had to remove the server's ability to recieve mail at html.com > > about 2 weeks ago, as it was getting several hundred return mails a > > minute. It now routes all mail to @html.com to /dev/null. Not > > that it stops my mailbox from filling up with requests from people who > > don't know how to read a fscking header who send mail to us whining about > > being removed from our lists. *sigh* > > I've often wondered if problems like this couldn't be solved cheaply > with lawyers. Yes, I said "cheap" and "lawyer" in the same sentence. > The idea goes something like this, you advertise for a law firm, > publicly. You offer a deal whereby you forward all your spam to the law > firm. The law firm gets to keep any $ they collect from spammers. The > law firm pays you time and material for a connection to your ISP and any > support required in court. > > Wonder if it would work? > Contingency fee lawyers rarely like suing individuals. Companies make better targets. The pay isn't that good and when you directly and personally threaten the well being of an individual, especially a low life spammer, there are risks to consider which fall outside the courtroom. My guess is that if contingency fee attorneys had their way, they would sue spam-tolerant backbones and innocent owners of hijacked relays, especially if those owners had deep pockets. Observe the progress of a civil lawsuit sometime. The plaintiffs search for money rather than justice. Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 1 19:35:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21288 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:35:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flash-gordon.haven.boston.ma.us (flash-gordon.haven.boston.ma.us [192.251.193.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21266 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:34:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benji@haven.boston.ma.us) Received: (benji@localhost) by flash-gordon.haven.boston.ma.us (8.7.5/Haven-2.23M) id WAA00797 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:34:50 -0500 (EST) From: behind brown eyes Message-Id: <199712020334.WAA00797@flash-gordon.haven.boston.ma.us> Subject: Re: annoying spammers... To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:34:49 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Stephen Roome" at Dec 1, 97 05:01:33 pm Organization: Where the Wild Things Are X-Personal-Deity: Dionysus X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Stephen Roome: > If not, and if they refuse your quite reasonable request to stop spamming > with your email address you can take it up legally with their service > provider as they are fraudulently pretending to be you (especially if you > set up an account which accepts all mail to @html.com). > > You've got a case of someone pretending to be you, I'd hope that US law > doesn't like that, and you can probably put someone either out of business > or in some fairly deep water. SPAM is one thing, 'framing' (!) someone is > another bucket of 'something-horrible' altogether. > > If their service provider doesn't want to know, how about the US courts, I > don'y know about you, but if someone started spamming in my name (or on my > behalf ?) I'd make damn sure they were sorry, even if it did include > hiring some laywers. > I got this off of Phil Agre's Red Rock Eaters mailing list (rre-request@weber.ucsd.edu). It seemed appropriate to the topic at hand. benji P.S. Sorry if that sounds a little weird, I'm running a bit low on sleep right now. --- begin included message --- [From Declan McCullagh's Stop-Censorship mailing list. I remember this particular spam well. It's one of the spams that first motivated me to combat the darn stuff. It listed a San Diego street address, and I gave a fleeting thought to driving over there and chatting with the offender in person. I thought better of it. I forget now what special offer it was promoting, but it was lame, I can tell you that. Now this loser is out $18,910. Justice is done. Keep complaining about those spammers. Savor the language: "the possibility that Plaintiffs' reputation will be damaged forever by unauthorized use of a domain name associated with them in the controversial and hated practice of Internet spamming". I have taken the liberty of reformatting this message to 70 columns.] =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News Service (RRE). Send any replies to the original author, listed in the From: field below. You are welcome to send the message along to others but please do not use the "redirect" command. For information on RRE, including instructions for (un)subscribing, send an empty message to rre-help@weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ******** The Judgement In the District Court of Travis County, Texas, 345th Judicial District No. 97-06273 TRACY LaQUEY PARKER, ZILKER INTERNET PARK, INC., PATRICK PARKER, PETER RAUCH, TEXAS INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS ASSOCIATION and EFF-AUSTIN, Plaintiffs, vs. C.N. ENTERPRISES and CRAIG NOWAK, Defendants. FINAL JUDGMENT After notice to all parties, this matter came before the Court on November 10, 1997 for a final trial on the merits. Based on the pleadings on file and the evidence presented this day to the Court, the Court enters the following as its order, findings and rulings: 1. Plaintiff Tracy LaQuey Parker is the owner of the Internet domain name flowers.com. Ms. Parker, along with her husband Patrick Parker and Peter Rauch, are business partners who have used the Internet domain name flowers.com as part of their business enterprise. 2. Plaintiff Zilker Internet Park, Inc., was the administrator of the Internet domain name flowers.com at all relevant times and was the Internet service provider for the Parkers. Electronic mail addressed to any address at flowers.com was routed through Zilker Internet Park's Internet mail servers. 3. The Plaintiffs had the exclusive right to use the Internet domain name flowers.com, and did not give permission to any outside persons, including the Defendants, to make any commercial use of that name. 4. On or about March 31 and April 1, 1997, the Defendants sent unsolicited mass junk mailings (also known as spam) over the Internet to many thousands, perhaps millions, of people. In its spam, the Plaintiffs used a false electronic return addresses to disguise the junk mailings' origins. The false return addresses used were owned by Tracy LaQuey Parker of Austin, Texas, and hosted on the computers of Zilker Internet Park, an Austin Internet service provider. 5. Because many thousands of the Internet addresses were not valid addresses, thousands upon thousands of copies of junk mail were returned to Ms. Parker and her business associates via Zilker Internet Park's computers. This massive, unwanted delivery of the Defendants' garbage to the Plaintiffs' doorstep inflicted substantial harm, including substantial service disruptions, lost access to communications, lost time, lost income and lost opportunities. 6. In addition, the Defendants unauthorized use of the flowers.com domain name caused actual damages and irreparable harm to Zilker Internet Park. The Defendants used Zilker Internet Park's electronic mail handling resources and storage capacity without permission. The company was forced to handle thousands and thousands of bounced e-mail messages, which temporarily disabled its mail server. 7. After the filing of this lawsuit, additional identical mass mailings were made with identical language as the spam inflicted on the Plaintiffs. The evidence indicates that the Defendants are continuing to send unsolicited mass mailings over the Internet. At least some of these messages were addressed to addresses at the same flowers.com domain name used and owned by the Plaintiffs. From this evidence, and from the circumstances of the initial mailing using flowers.com as the return address, it appears from the preponderance of the evidence that Defendants acted knowingly. 8. In light of the evidence, the Court finds that the Plaintiffs are entitled to a permanent injunction. The Defendants did not and do not have the legal right to use flowers.com as a return address for their mass mailing, and the Defendants unauthorized use of that address constituted a common law nuisance and trespass. The Court additionally finds that the Plaintiffs have suffered, and will continue to suffer if not enjoined, irreparable harm in the form of diminution in value of Plaintiffs' domain name; the possibility that Plaintiffs' reputation will be damaged forever by unauthorized use of a domain name associated with them in the controversial and hated practice of Internet spamming; and service disruptions. The potential harm to the Plaintiffs cannot be adequately valued in damages, and therefore the Plaintiffs have no adequate remedy at law. The balance of interests favors a permanent injunction, as the Defendants will suffer no harm in being denied the right to use the flowers.com domain name return address. 9. The Court further finds that the Plaintiffs, including the Plaintiffs Texas Internet Service Providers Association and its members, and EFF-Austin and its members, will suffer irreparable harm if the Defendants are not prohibited from using other Internet domain names without permission as the return addresses of their mass mailings. If the Defendants are not enjoined from using other domain names without permission, the Defendants will continue to cause the same injuries that were inflicted upon the Plaintiffs, yet evade any effective review or remedy for their actions. 10. The Court further finds that Plaintiffs Tracy LaQuey Parker, Patrick Parker, Peter Rauch and Zilker Internet Park suffered actual damages from the unauthorized actions of the Plaintiffs, including lost time, lost income, lost business opportunities and lost use of their respective computer systems. The Court also finds that it was necessary for the Plaintiffs to retain the services of attorneys in order to redress this damages, and that the Plaintiffs are entitled to an award of their reasonable attorney's fees. IT IS THERFORE ORDERED that Defendants C.N. Enterprises and Craig Nowak, jointly and singly, their officers, agents, servants, employees, and attorneys, and any other persons in active concert or participation with them who receive actual notice of this order by personal service or otherwise, be and there hereby are permanently enjoined from the following: 1. Sending or causing to be sent any Internet electronic mail message or other electronic communication using the domain name flowers.com as any portion of the return address of that message, or otherwise using the domain name flowers.com in any portion of the message header information. 2. From sending any Internet electronic mail or other electronic communication incorporating in any electronic return address information any Internet domain name without the express written permission of the owner and administrator of that Internet domain name. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED and DECREED that Plaintiffs Tracy LaQuey Parker, Patrick Parker, Peter Rauch, and Zilker Internet Park, Inc., have and recover from Defendants C.N. Enterprises and Craig Nowak, jointly and severally, their actual damages in the amount of $13,910 and attorney's fees in the amount of $5,000 and that in addition to this total amount of $18,910 Plaintiffs Tracy LaQuey Parker, Patrick Parker, Peter Rauch, and Zilker Internet Park, Inc., have and recover from C.N. Enterprises and Craig Nowak their costs of Court and post-judgment interest at the rate of ten percent (10%) per annum compounded annually from and after the date of November 10, 1997. All relief not previously granted or specifically granted herein is denied. SIGNED this 10th day of November, 1997. /s/ Suzanne Covington TRAVIS COUNTY DISTRICT JUDGE -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is public. To join fight-censorship-announce, send "subscribe fight-censorship-announce" to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu. More information is at http://www.eff.org/~declan/fc/ --- end included message --- -- Benjamin R. Cline Large Furry Mammal benji@haven.boston.ma.us "I'm more than ever of the opinion that a decent human existence is possible today only on the fringes of society." -- Hannah Arendt From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 04:07:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA25481 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:07:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA25465 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:07:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15563; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:07:15 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:07:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: David Kelly cc: Jamie Bowden , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: <199712020158.TAA05538@nospam.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, David Kelly wrote: > I've often wondered if problems like this couldn't be solved cheaply > with lawyers. Yes, I said "cheap" and "lawyer" in the same sentence. > The idea goes something like this, you advertise for a law firm, > publicly. You offer a deal whereby you forward all your spam to the law > firm. The law firm gets to keep any $ they collect from spammers. The > law firm pays you time and material for a connection to your ISP and any > support required in court. This isn't quite what I was thinking when I suggested calling in lawyers, but on the whole smoeone claiming to be me can probably be traced eventually and I'd hope/expect that the case would be an easy win. > Wonder if it would work? Probably/Possibly/Hopefully, any of these, I'd try it. Steve -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 04:17:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA25960 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:17:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA25944 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:17:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15610; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:17:05 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:17:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: behind brown eyes cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: <199712020334.WAA00797@flash-gordon.haven.boston.ma.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, behind brown eyes wrote: > According to Stephen Roome: > > If their service provider doesn't want to know, how about the US courts, I > > don'y know about you, but if someone started spamming in my name (or on my > > behalf ?) I'd make damn sure they were sorry, even if it did include > > hiring some laywers. [snip] > I got this off of Phil Agre's Red Rock Eaters mailing list > (rre-request@weber.ucsd.edu). It seemed appropriate to the topic at hand. It's perfect,I couldn't imagine a better example, I'm glad that there is some justice! It's almost worth quoting cases like this in replies to spammers who just don't get it. [snipped the court judgment stuff] Many thanks, I was having a really dull day until I saw that! Steve -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 10:20:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20583 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:20:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from blue.bad.bris.ac.uk (blue.bad.bris.ac.uk [137.222.132.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA20540 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:20:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk) Received: (qmail 2086 invoked by uid 57242); 2 Dec 1997 18:19:23 -0000 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:19:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Aled Treharne Reply-To: felix@royal.net To: Stephen Roome cc: behind brown eyes , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- We recently had a similar thread on our local newsgroups and this little snippet appeared form the Law Dept.: By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b) (1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment, punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for EACH violation. I now send this notice in reply to all spam that I receive. Thought you might like it... :) - -Taff. Aled Treharne felix@royal.net "Big Bird meets Salvador Dali has been brought to you by the numbers L and ), and by the letter 3." For PGP Public key finger taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk #include(std.disclaim) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNIRRKsaJukNO1flNAQGzpwP/QPNb+EhSVwG0FvGaRqH55/CMeN7BfECy 9BQPmc1x2/RfGHviVy74UGZBcjfIFamnl3RWdBS9nqG1hrIJVxwSRjRwNIR/0bsy kdYJevfpUPR3nxjbhvzOGZHORpwm+T9/mQ0N5UT27CfQB2VD+W8jEFeeje5uyi2u X5KduBeVcv4= =/295 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 12:04:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA28883 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:04:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28873 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:04:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA24130; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:03:58 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id OAA29429; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:03:27 -0600 Message-ID: <19971202140326.51308@right.PCS> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:03:26 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: felix@royal.net Cc: Stephen Roome , behind brown eyes , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Aled Treharne on Dec 12, 1997 at 06:19:11PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Dec 12, 1997 at 06:19:11PM +0000, Aled Treharne wrote: > We recently had a similar thread on our local newsgroups and this little > snippet appeared form the Law Dept.: > > By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer > meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b) > (1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to > such equipment, punishable by action to recover actual monetary > loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for EACH violation. Um, two things. First, I don't believe that the assertion that (computer == fax) has actually been tested in court. Until it is, this may or may not be true. AFAIK, only Oregon has a law that specifically covers unsolicited email. Second, your email: taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk ^^^^^ What would the US Code have to do with the UK? :-) -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 12:13:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA29591 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.san.rr.com (ns.san.rr.com [204.210.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29566; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:13:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (dt051n19.san.rr.com [204.210.32.25]) by mail.san.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00200; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:13:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34846BCE.938C373B@dal.net> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:13:02 -0800 From: Studded X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-11-30-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG CC: freebsd-questions Subject: Re: BSD ignorants References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moving to -chat] Sue Blake wrote: > > On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Doug White wrote: > > > I don't see this happening anytime soon, with the number of large sites > > depending on FreeBSD for their livelihood. > > I used to run OS/2, and heard this frequently there too. > "Not soon" always comes around sooner than we expect. Actually the business end of OS/2 isn't going anywhere. Almost all ATM's run on it, as do most POS systems (those scanner/cash register doomahackers). There's lots of other business/server applications that OS/2 excels at, and is placed in the top of various niches. It's the desktop market that IBM is abandoning. In fact y'all can blame IBM, and especially their complete lack of interest/ability to support win32 stuff for inflicting me on you with increasing frequency. :) I'm actually staying booted in FreeBSD for days at a time now, with only a couple OS/2 and windows apps forcing me to reboot, and that becomes less frequent as I learn new Unix/X tools. Of course there are a lot of good things about running FreeBSD too, and I'm enjoying the learning experience. Working for a microsoft-os-free world, Doug (Hey, I can dream can't I? :) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 12:31:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA00819 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:31:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from blue.bad.bris.ac.uk (blue.bad.bris.ac.uk [137.222.132.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00780 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:31:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk) Received: (qmail 3210 invoked by uid 57242); 2 Dec 1997 20:31:27 -0000 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:31:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Aled Treharne Reply-To: felix@royal.net To: Jonathan Lemon cc: Stephen Roome , behind brown eyes , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: <19971202140326.51308@right.PCS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > On Dec 12, 1997 at 06:19:11PM +0000, Aled Treharne wrote: > > By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer > > meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b) > > (1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to > > such equipment, punishable by action to recover actual monetary > > loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for EACH violation. > Um, two things. First, I don't believe that the assertion that > (computer == fax) has actually been tested in court. Until it is, > this may or may not be true. AFAIK, only Oregon has a law that > specifically covers unsolicited email. THe posting to our newsgroup stated that it had (in some small case unrelated to spam) and that it was successfull. Besides (pardon me for being naive) if the law says X is true isn't it? If a computer meets the definition of a fax machine isn't or shouldn't that be the b all and end all of it? Or does law follow rules that have nothing do with reality. > Second, your email: taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk > What would the US Code have to do with the UK? :-) Well, the spammers were from the US, and it was a kind of academic discussion anyway. We just wondered if the UK had anything like that. Anyone know? - -Taff. Aled Treharne felix@royal.net "Big Bird meets Salvador Dali has been brought to you by the numbers L and ), and by the letter 3." For PGP Public key finger taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk #include(std.disclaim) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNIRwHsaJukNO1flNAQE7GwP/TtAdcYjdyxTr8FfRBLaCMcE+ALxxlvod Nslaof4J2lnYqXhajr50AngA9BHK8Nut5mKBFICQgVJlFKAh6kq0XyoJNxaU8NTV HRKmn8X3f4tiSCTHyeJPZIEVJU3V9S13iOoZdos0GzGrliyNJC8NxLhHlJRWmzPr UDLkGsm7m5g= =s8TH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 13:01:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03227 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:01:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03205 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:00:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA24228; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:46:57 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id OAA09786; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:46:25 -0600 Message-ID: <19971202144625.59050@right.PCS> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:46:25 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: felix@royal.net Cc: Stephen Roome , behind brown eyes , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... References: <19971202140326.51308@right.PCS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Aled Treharne on Dec 12, 1997 at 08:31:21PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Dec 12, 1997 at 08:31:21PM +0000, Aled Treharne wrote: > THe posting to our newsgroup stated that it had (in some small case > unrelated to spam) and that it was successfull. Besides (pardon me for > being naive) if the law says X is true isn't it? If a computer meets the > definition of a fax machine isn't or shouldn't that be the b all and end > all of it? Or does law follow rules that have nothing do with reality. Well, that seems to be the crux of the matter. The courts have not (AFAIK) ruled that a computer meets the definition of a fax machine. If it has, then I have a bunch of $500 claims I'd like to send out. And yes, the law usually has nothing to do with reality, assuming that you define reality as something related to common sense. :-) -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 13:15:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA04398 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:15:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04390 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:15:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@shell.monmouth.com) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA17065; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:14:53 -0500 (EST) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199712022114.QAA17065@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: BSD ignorants To: Studded@dal.net (Studded) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:14:53 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <34846BCE.938C373B@dal.net> from "Studded" at Dec 2, 97 12:13:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug White wrote: > [moving to -chat] > > Sue Blake wrote: > > > > On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Doug White wrote: > > > > > I don't see this happening anytime soon, with the number of large sites > > > depending on FreeBSD for their livelihood. > > > > I used to run OS/2, and heard this frequently there too. > > "Not soon" always comes around sooner than we expect. > > Actually the business end of OS/2 isn't going anywhere. Almost all > ATM's run on it, as do most POS systems (those scanner/cash register > doomahackers). There's lots of other business/server applications that > OS/2 excels at, and is placed in the top of various niches. It's the > desktop market that IBM is abandoning. In fact y'all can blame IBM, and > especially their complete lack of interest/ability to support win32 > stuff for inflicting me on you with increasing frequency. :) Actually, it's the problems with Microsoft changing Win32 daily that made them give up. My problem is there's no almost no scanner support for OS/2 which made me look to Win95/Win3.1 to get something running at my last job (at IBM). > I'm actually staying booted in FreeBSD for days at a time now, with only a > couple OS/2 and windows apps forcing me to reboot, and that becomes less > frequent as I learn new Unix/X tools. Of course there are a lot of good > things about running FreeBSD too, and I'm enjoying the learning > experience. > That's the fun of it. I went from Vax/Vms to Unix, to Windows/DOS, to VM and OS/2 (at IBM) and to Win95 and NT now as well as Unix. I've got Win3.1, Win95, OS/2 Warp 4, and FreeBSD running at home on the net. > Working for a microsoft-os-free world, > Would be nice, eh? I'm still fighting to keep my Unix mail support alive. (Exchange -- ugh) > Doug (Hey, I can dream can't I? :) > Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | This message brought to you by the letters PDP and the number 11. | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 14:12:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09177 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:12:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09167 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:12:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA05302; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:12:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:12:43 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199712022212.OAA05302@kithrup.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: <19971202144625.59050.kithrup.freebsd.chat@right.PCS> References: ; from Aled Treharne on Dec 12, 1997 at 08:31:21PM +0000 Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <19971202144625.59050.kithrup.freebsd.chat@right.PCS> you write: >Well, that seems to be the crux of the matter. The courts have not (AFAIK) >ruled that a computer meets the definition of a fax machine. If it has, >then I have a bunch of $500 claims I'd like to send out. We have several lawyers working with "us" on CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org/). Their feeling is that, no, the "junk fax" law does not apply to spam -- it is apparantly clear from the congressional record that Congress intended only fax machines to be covered, not computers -- and even though a computer with a fax modem is, email is *not*. More to the point, you really don't *want* that to happen. Or else every piece of email you send has to have your fax number on every page, you cannot use anonymous remailers, you could be liable for $500 per email message you send to someone (whether it's through a list or not), etc. HOwever, if you're in the US, call yoru congresscritter and support the Smith Bill -- it basicly adds email to the junk fax law, which has been upheld in courts so far, meaning that the email version would likely as well. And, unlike the other two bills introduced into congress, it is an opt-in scheme (as opposed to an "opt-out" scheme, whereby you have to ask to be removed from the list, for each spammer who has a list). From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 16:13:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18378 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:13:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerberus.partsnow.com (gatekeeper.partsnow.com [207.155.26.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18369 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:13:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from don@partsnow.com) Received: (from bin@localhost) by cerberus.partsnow.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id IAA06338 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:11:41 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cerberus.partsnow.com: bin set sender to using -f Received: from wildeweb(192.168.100.10) by cerberus.partsnow.com via smap (V2.0) id xma006336; Tue, 2 Dec 97 08:11:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3484A3EC.E07348ED@partsnow.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 16:12:28 -0800 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: don@wildeweb.partsnow.com Organization: Soligen, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... References: ; from Aled Treharne on Dec 12, 1997 at 08:31:21PM +0000 <199712022212.OAA05302@kithrup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Another take on the SPAM issue, courtesy of WIRED... please visit http://e-scrub.com/wpoison/ and tell me if you think this code is worth installing and whether it's more poison for SPAMmers or my server that I install it on??? Thanks! -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ ________ _________ _________ ___==_ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [don@PartsNow.com] [http://www.PartsNow.com ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo--ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo--oo  From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 17:05:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA21742 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:05:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA21738 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:05:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA02884; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:05:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA17545; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:05:41 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:05:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199712030105.SAA17545@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: don@wildeweb.partsnow.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: <3484A3EC.E07348ED@partsnow.com> References: <199712022212.OAA05302@kithrup.com> <3484A3EC.E07348ED@partsnow.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Another take on the SPAM issue, courtesy of WIRED... please visit > > http://e-scrub.com/wpoison/ > > and tell me if you think this code is worth installing and whether it's > more poison for SPAMmers or my server that I install it on??? I think this will just screw up mostly valid WWW crawlers and such (such as Yahoo and AltaVista). If you don't care about those, then sure, but I suspect most of the harvesting is done via DejaNews and other such 'crawlers' that also generate lots of legitimate information. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 2 23:51:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA18511 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:51:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kevin.sunshine.net (pme60.sunshine.net [204.191.204.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18501; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net) Received: from localhost (cagey@localhost) by kevin.sunshine.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00674; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:50:38 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: kevin.sunshine.net: cagey owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:50:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Kevin G. Eliuk" X-Sender: cagey@kevin.sunshine.net To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: a little laugh In-Reply-To: <199712020110.RAA10694@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > "for.your" > approve PASSWORD subscribe freebsd-questions bahamas@vjmlc.com > "for.your" > approve PASSWORD subscribe freebsd-questions askew@elan-yital.com > "for.your" > > % whois spam.com Name (www.HORMEL.COM:cagey): ftp 331 Anonymous access allowed, send identity (e-mail name) as password. Password: 230 Anonymous user logged in. Remote system type is Windows_NT. ... redundant ... :) > so now we know where it all comes from. > i'll call their ISP now...... Maybe they're checking up on the use of their trade name!!! > > jmb > ------------------- Best regards, #######+@................| Kevin Eliuk ##### |.........,.......| |.................+ |...%..........V..| -----U------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 07:45:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA17694 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:45:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from keymaster.fsl.noaa.gov (root@keymaster.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA17690 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:45:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kelly@fsl.noaa.gov) Received: from cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.101]) by keymaster.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13876 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:45:29 GMT Received: from fsl.noaa.gov (auk.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.124]) by cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08326 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:45:29 GMT Message-ID: <34857E98.A0B877C3@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 08:45:28 -0700 From: Sean Kelly Organization: CIRA/NOAA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/725) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: What can we do about Java? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I realize a lot of FreeBSD users are old Unix hands who tend to turn their noses up at even the slightest mention of Java (or any other coffee product---they tend to like it out of a can with a label like Folger's Choice with Maxwellian Crystals, percolated until it's burned through, and taken black with six sugars). I get paid to do Java now, and despite all the hype it's really a nice improvement over C++. My software development times have never been lower. Plus, management finds it a great way to leverage their high-powered Unix developers into developing Windows software, and all without the kicking, the screaming, and (in some cases) the bleating. FreeBSD has reached a point where it can almost be called the de facto standard operating system for Internet servers. It really is "the Power to Serve." A very recent article in Java World http://www.javaworld.com/jw-12-1997/jw-12-volanomark.html acknowledges this fact. The author writes: ``In particular, good Java server support in BSD/OS, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD represents a large chunk of Internet servers to be excluded from Sun's "run anywhere" claim.'' There are other specific mentions of FreeBSD in the article as well. I think it's high time FreeBSD become one of the leading Java runtime and development platforms. Our OS is already positioned quite well in Internet environments and on the desktops of many of us old Unix hands. I'm aware that some FreeBSD core team members also do paid Java development with FreeBSD. I'd like to be able to do that as well with a high-performance, low-bug Java system. I've got the enthusiasm (if not the talent), and I want to help. What can I do? What can *we* do? --Sean From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 08:52:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA24120 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:52:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA24095 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:52:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA08364; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:51:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA19783; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:51:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:51:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199712031651.JAA19783@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Sean Kelly Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-Reply-To: <34857E98.A0B877C3@fsl.noaa.gov> References: <34857E98.A0B877C3@fsl.noaa.gov> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I realize a lot of FreeBSD users are old Unix hands who tend to turn > their noses up at even the slightest mention of Java Hey, not me! > I get paid to do Java now, and despite all the hype it's really a nice > improvement over C++. My software development times have never been > lower. Plus, management finds it a great way to leverage their > high-powered Unix developers into developing Windows software, and all > without the kicking, the screaming, and (in some cases) the bleating. Sounds like what we're experiencing as well. > I've got the enthusiasm (if not the talent), and I want to help. What > can I do? What can *we* do? Download the source code from Sun after signing their 'educational NDA', get the K.White patches from ...(Looking) http://www.csi.uottawa.ca/~kwhite/javaport.html And port away. I have it on good authority that it should take a couple of weeks to do the port, but I don't have that time to spend. :( Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 09:18:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA26025 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:18:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.83.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA26013 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:18:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Received: (from luomat@localhost) by luomat.peak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29065 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:18:13 -0500 (GMT-0500) Message-Id: <199712031718.MAA29065@luomat.peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) X-Image-URL: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/luomat@peak.org.tiff In-Reply-To: <199712031613.LAA00120@norfolk.worldreach.net> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.1) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148.RR) From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 12:18:08 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: more spam References: <199712031613.LAA00120@norfolk.worldreach.net> X-Image-URL-Disclaimer: hey, it's off my student ID, gimme a break ;-) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > V I R C O M O N L I N E S T O R E > > ( Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01399 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:27:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01391; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:27:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199712031827.KAA01391@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: more spam To: luomat+freebsd@luomat.peak.org (Timothy J Luoma) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:27:26 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199712031718.MAA29065@luomat.peak.org> from "Timothy J Luoma" at Dec 3, 97 12:18:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Timothy J Luoma wrote: > > > > V I R C O M O N L I N E S T O R E > > > > ( > > hrm.... well, requiring DNS was a good first step.... > > .... now how about a blacklist of domains which have spammed the list? > /etc/mail/Makefile in -stable and -current. ;) jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 15:55:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25125 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:55:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25114 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:55:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA12015; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:55:03 -0800 (PST) To: Sean Kelly cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 08:45:28 MST." <34857E98.A0B877C3@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 15:55:02 -0800 Message-ID: <12011.881193302@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think it's high time FreeBSD become one of the leading Java runtime > and development platforms. Our OS is already positioned quite well in Easier said than done - this requires someone who can actively maintain the Java port, and Jeff Hsu said back in the 1.0.2 days that he was essentially sidelined now with too much work elsewhere to do JVM ports anymore (which also need to be tweaked and fixed as the various Java developers report in with problems) and I don't know of anyone who's managed to fill his shoes since. It also takes a willingness to do paperwork and deal with licensing issues since Sun requires that of whomever's getting the Java source code to do the work. > I've got the enthusiasm (if not the talent), and I want to help. What > can I do? What can *we* do? Well, you could learn how to port the Java development environment from scratch and keep our support up to date, that would be one really necessary prerequisite step dealt with. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 16:52:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA28875 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:52:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28871 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:52:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA03685; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:51:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:51:58 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: Shawn Ramsey cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD ignorants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Redirected to -chat. On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Shawn Ramsey wrote: > > I fear that M$ will push NT on them and then.... > > Wasnt it *MS*NBC that threw away their NT servers because they didnt work? > :) I was mistaken and was corrected. We've been studying NT in operating systems class and it's getting to my head. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 17:29:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02128 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:29:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.gel.usherb.ca (zeus.gel.usherb.ca [132.210.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02117 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:29:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex.boisvert@gel.usherb.ca) Received: from castor.gel.usherb.ca. (castor.gel.usherb.ca [132.210.70.4]) by zeus.gel.usherb.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17806; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:28:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from boia01@localhost) by castor.gel.usherb.ca. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22179; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:28:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:28:54 -0500 (EST) From: "Alex.Boisvert" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (This is a repost since -chat seems to have filtered my previous posting from a non-resolvable address, I'll change my sendmail.cf soon) On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Sean Kelly wrote: > I think it's high time FreeBSD become one of the leading Java runtime > and development platforms. Our OS is already positioned quite well in > Internet environments and on the desktops of many of us old Unix hands. > I'm aware that some FreeBSD core team members also do paid Java > development with FreeBSD. I'd like to be able to do that as well with a > high-performance, low-bug Java system. I have Sun's JDK 1.1.2 running on my system now. It's "fairly stable" with respect to Keith White's JDK 1.1 port. To give you an idea, I can run ICQ, the BISS-AWT development environment (LibBrowser), and many other java applications. I did not test many applets (via AppletViewer for instance) since applets are not my priority. I use my port exclusively now, so that's a good indicator. Threads are still giving me some headaches but the stability is improving. Sadly, I can attribute most of the current bugs to Lesstif. I've used version 0.78 to 0.82 and each has its specific weaknesses. I will be getting a Motif 2.0 license in the next few days (it's in the mail). Then, I'll be able to test threads using HotJava Browser, which I can't run now because of bugs in Lesstif (presumably). As soon as I can get HotJava to run, I will release my port. So you can expect a release soon... (Before Chrismas?) > > I've got the enthusiasm (if not the talent), and I want to help. What > can I do? What can *we* do? > Well, let me paint the picture as I see it. (Other people's mileage may vary ;-) Right now, it's "kinda hard" to work collectively on Sun's JDK port. I have had trouble with Sun getting JDK 1.1.3 or JDK 1.1.4... So working with Keith White on the same JDK version has not been possible yet. Also, JDK versions are moving targets and just keeping up with Sun's releases is a challenge by itself. Hopefully things will start to settle after JDK 1.2.X. In the long run, I think Kaffe (www.kaffe.org) is the right way to go. Keeping in sync with Sun will still be very hard but at least, we'll have a clean-room implementation where many people can work simultaneously, hands in hands. Kaffe is also our best hope for JIT compilation on FreeBSD since Sun/JavaSoft will unlikely release a JVM source code license with JIT engine. I believe that making a stable JVM (look at FreeBSD for instance :-) is the most important thing now. Performance is a second-degree goal. Keeping up with all of Java's feature (like exotic APIs) is a third-degree goal for me. What I want is a JVM that has a portable GUI, reliable networking and stable execution. The rest is luxury for now. I not saying that we should stop porting Sun's JVM to FreeBSD. We still need Sun's JVM as a reference implementation (as it's meant to be) and we will still depend on their class libraries in the short/medium term (ie. Swing components) but to get a *good* JVM on FreeBSD, we'll have to go *our way*, we'll have to get our hands dirty for a while and come up with a JVM (or maybe a compiler based on gcc) that rivals Microsoft's or Symantec's (and many others) JVM. For this to happen, Kaffe and/or gcc need a good deal of work and that's what we have work on to get it "our way" with FreeBSD without sacrifices (with respect to performance, stability and licensing). I understand that all of this takes time and efforts. So much that it'll take some time (another year, maybe more) before we can compare the "free software" approach to commercial ones. Again, it's not as easy as porting Sun's JVM but, in the end, the reward is greater. There are many active projects that need volunteers: Kaffe, gcc/java, kore (a java.* package clone), java-posix, BISS-AWT, and others. Take a look at them and see what you'd like to work on. What are *your* priorities regarding java? (Don't forget to contribute to FreeBSD or else Jordan will hate me for this one ;-). Regards, Alex Boisvert --- FreeBSD: Decouvrez la puissance de votre PC! www.freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 18:09:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05387 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:09:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05365 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:08:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id SAA15617; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:08:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id SAA05292; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:02:14 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971203180211.65495@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:02:11 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Bruce Evans , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <199712021002.VAA03137@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <1754.881058992@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <1754.881058992@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 02:36:32AM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ moved to -chat ] On Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 02:36:32AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >>> Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm >>> going to get. :) >> >> You mean spring in the Southern hemisphere of course ;-). > > I didn't think you had spring in the southern hemisphere. Doesn't > equatorial wobble result in a quick jump from autumn straight into > summer? Not here, I fear (nor where I live). > Nothing else would account for the average southern islander being > able to wear a loincloth 10 months out of the year. :) Well, I can't speak for the Kiwis, but South Australia (at least the habitable parts) are a whole lot cooler than California, on the whole. If anybody here runs round in a loin cloth for 10 months a year, he's (a) a nutter and (b) not going to survive for long. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 18:43:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08397 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:43:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08386 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:42:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA12157; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:42:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA22650; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:42:51 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:42:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199712040242.TAA22650@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Alex.Boisvert" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I have Sun's JDK 1.1.2 running on my system now. It's "fairly stable" > with respect to Keith White's JDK 1.1 port. Meaning it's more or less stable than the K.White port, or the same? > I will be getting a Motif 2.0 license in the next few days (it's in the > mail). Then, I'll be able to test threads using HotJava Browser, which I > can't run now because of bugs in Lesstif (presumably). Cool. I have SRI pay for a copy of Motif 1.2 so I could develop it. I'm not sure 2.0 will work. :( > As soon as I can get HotJava to run, I will release my port. So you can > expect a release soon... (Before Chrismas?) I'd be very interested in your diffs. > Right now, it's "kinda hard" to work collectively on Sun's JDK port. I > have had trouble with Sun getting JDK 1.1.3 or JDK 1.1.4... So working > with Keith White on the same JDK version has not been possible yet. Also, > JDK versions are moving targets and just keeping up with Sun's releases is > a challenge by itself. Hopefully things will start to settle after JDK > 1.2.X. Agreed. JDK 1.1.5 is due out RSN, and JDK 1.1.6 is supposed to be out late this year/early next year. (Not sure if I would take those dates to the bank though.) I don't expect to see anything w/regard to JDK 1.2 until April/May next year. > I believe that making a stable JVM (look at FreeBSD for instance :-) is > the most important thing now. Agreed. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 20:09:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15863 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:09:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.gel.usherb.ca (zeus.gel.usherb.ca [132.210.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15858 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:09:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex.boisvert@gel.usherb.ca) Received: (from boia01@localhost) by zeus.gel.usherb.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21077; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:09:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:09:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Alex.Boisvert" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Java benchmarks on FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Good news for Java programmers on FreeBSD. As I mentioned earlier today in this list, I have Sun's JDK 1.1.2 running on FreeBSD 2.2-stable. JavaWorld and Volano just published a series of benchmarks for Java virtual machines running on differents hardware/software platforms. See the article at: http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-12-1997/jw-12-volanomark.html) As stated in the article, no benchmarks were published for FreeBSD's current JDK 1.1 port (from Keith White) because it couldn't execute the benchmark program correctly. Well, I downloaded and ran the VolanoMark and the Client/Server benchmarks and to my suprise (!) they both worked! So here are the preliminary results on my home computer (Intel Pentium 133 MHz) along with the results on NT/Solaris/Linux with different JVMs running on an Pentium Pro 200 MHz... VolanoMark v1.0 Result ================================================================= Windows NT, Microsoft Java SDK v2.0 756 (includes JIT and native threads) Solaris, Sun's JDK 1.1.3 334 (includes JIT and native threads) Solaris, JavaSoft's JDK 1.1.4 240 (this is the reference release, no JIT) OS/2 Wrap, IBM's JDK 1.1.4 239 (include JIT and native threads) Red Hat Linux 4.2, JavaSoft JDK 1.1.3 223 (no JIT, green threads) Windows NT, JavaSoft's JDK 1.1.4 149 (this is the reference release, no JIT) FreeBSD 2.2-stable, JavaSoft JDK 1.1.2 145 (no JIT, green threads, and running on a P133 MHz, not a PPro 200 MHz) Client/Server benchmark Result =============================================================== Windows NT, Microsoft Java SDK v2.0 1070 (includes JIT and native threads) OS/2 Wrap, IBM's JDK 1.1.4 858 (include JIT and native threads) Solaris, Sun's JDK 1.1.3 695 (includes JIT and native threads) Red Hat Linux 4.2, JavaSoft JDK 1.1.3 521 (no JIT, green threads) FreeBSD 2.2-stable, JavaSoft JDK 1.1.2 331 (no JIT, green threads, and running on a P133 MHz, not a PPro 200 MHz) Although we can't compare (nor accurately scale) the results between my P133 and the PPro200 that was used for the actual tests, the good news are: 1) it works! and 2) the results on FreeBSD seem on-par with Linux (and maybe a bit better than Windows NT running JavaSoft's plain-vanilla JDK 1.1.4). Moral of the story: expect a release "real soon now". Alex. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 21:02:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19692 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:02:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.gel.usherb.ca (zeus.gel.usherb.ca [132.210.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19675 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:02:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex.boisvert@gel.usherb.ca) Received: from castor.gel.usherb.ca. (castor.gel.usherb.ca [132.210.70.4]) by zeus.gel.usherb.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21984; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:02:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from boia01@localhost) by castor.gel.usherb.ca. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28255; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:02:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:02:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Alex.Boisvert" To: Nate Williams cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-Reply-To: <199712040242.TAA22650@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Nate Williams wrote: > > I have Sun's JDK 1.1.2 running on my system now. It's "fairly stable" > > with respect to Keith White's JDK 1.1 port. > > Meaning it's more or less stable than the K.White port, or the same? In general, I think it's more stable... (What kind of answer did you expect from the guy who did it? ;-) > > I will be getting a Motif 2.0 license in the next few days (it's in the > > mail). Then, I'll be able to test threads using HotJava Browser, which I > > can't run now because of bugs in Lesstif (presumably). > > Cool. I have SRI pay for a copy of Motif 1.2 so I could develop it. > I'm not sure 2.0 will work. :( Isn't Motif 2.0 backward compatible? > > As soon as I can get HotJava to run, I will release my port. So you can > > expect a release soon... (Before Chrismas?) > > I'd be very interested in your diffs. In their current state, the diffs are scary since I have played around in many places in the code+makefiles. With all due respect, I will have to go over the diffs to filter out my little sandbox action before publishing them. After all, I have a reputation to protect ;-) > Agreed. JDK 1.1.5 is due out RSN, and JDK 1.1.6 is supposed to be out > late this year/early next year. (Not sure if I would take those dates > to the bank though.) I don't expect to see anything w/regard to JDK 1.2 > until April/May next year. What would be good is to get together a ""Team Java-FreeBSD" and standardize on some _specific_ JDK release. This way, we can all work together. Many people have JDK 1.1.4 in their hands now, maybe that would be a good starting ("freeze") point? Perhaps we can wait for 1.1.5 if it's released in early Q1'98. Alex. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 21:08:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA20106 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:08:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20097 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:08:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA13086; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:08:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA23295; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:08:07 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:08:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199712040508.WAA23295@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Alex.Boisvert" Cc: Nate Williams , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-Reply-To: References: <199712040242.TAA22650@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > I have Sun's JDK 1.1.2 running on my system now. It's "fairly stable" > > > with respect to Keith White's JDK 1.1 port. > > > > Meaning it's more or less stable than the K.White port, or the same? > > In general, I think it's more stable... (What kind of answer did you > expect from the guy who did it? ;-) Well, you never know. :) > > > I will be getting a Motif 2.0 license in the next few days (it's in the > > > mail). Then, I'll be able to test threads using HotJava Browser, which I > > > can't run now because of bugs in Lesstif (presumably). > > > > Cool. I have SRI pay for a copy of Motif 1.2 so I could develop it. > > I'm not sure 2.0 will work. :( > > Isn't Motif 2.0 backward compatible? I've had problems with replacing a Motif 1.2 compiled binary with a Motif 2.0 library, and I know that CDE won't work with Motif 2.0. :( > > Agreed. JDK 1.1.5 is due out RSN, and JDK 1.1.6 is supposed to be out > > late this year/early next year. (Not sure if I would take those dates > > to the bank though.) I don't expect to see anything w/regard to JDK 1.2 > > until April/May next year. > > What would be good is to get together a ""Team Java-FreeBSD" and > standardize on some _specific_ JDK release. This way, we can all work > together. Many people have JDK 1.1.4 in their hands now, maybe that > would be a good starting ("freeze") point? Perhaps we can wait for 1.1.5 > if it's released in early Q1'98. I'd like to have your binary port today if possible. *grin* But, in any case I'd be interested in a Team Java-FreeBSD list. I've got a couple tens of thousands of lines of Java code I can throw against it for testing purposes that uses about every esoteric feature in Java except RMI. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 21:45:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA22475 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:45:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp107.wcc.net [208.6.232.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22463 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:45:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from detlev!joelh) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA19509; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:45:22 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:45:22 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712040545.XAA19509@detlev.UUCP> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <12011.881193302@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <12011.881193302@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> I think it's high time FreeBSD become one of the leading Java runtime >> and development platforms. Our OS is already positioned quite well in > Easier said than done - this requires someone who can actively > maintain the Java port, and Jeff Hsu said back in the 1.0.2 days that > he was essentially sidelined now with too much work elsewhere to do > JVM ports anymore (which also need to be tweaked and fixed as the > various Java developers report in with problems) and I don't know of > anyone who's managed to fill his shoes since. It also takes a > willingness to do paperwork and deal with licensing issues since Sun > requires that of whomever's getting the Java source code to do the > work. I've got the source already (it's not hard to get at all), and don't have any problems with paperwork. (I used to work in the DA's office. Need I say more?) My problem is that I've only cursory experience with threads, never programmed X, and generally don't have the programming skills in those areas that would be needed. That's not to say I can't learn. It's just to say that I may need to talk to others. >> I've got the enthusiasm (if not the talent), and I want to help. What >> can I do? What can *we* do? > Well, you could learn how to port the Java development environment > from scratch and keep our support up to date, that would be one really > necessary prerequisite step dealt with. Why from scratch? There are a few 1.1 patches floating around... I actually considered looking over them, looking over the JDK 1.1->1.1.4 diffs, and figuring out what needs new attention. Cheers, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 3 22:18:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25053 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:18:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25044 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:17:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03454; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:17:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712040617.WAA03454@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Sean Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 15:55:02 PST." <12011.881193302@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 22:17:46 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, I don't have a lot of time however I am willing to donate some time towards the FreeBSD Java effort. Just downloaded the license and will fax it to Sun tonite. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 03:25:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA12985 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:25:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lithium.technet.net (lithium.technet.net [195.80.199.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA12856 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:23:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@wup.de) Received: from mail.wup.de (ns.wup.de [149.237.200.7]) by lithium.technet.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA25283 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:22:49 +0100 Received: from blackbird.wup.de (andreas@blackbird.wup.de [149.237.200.201]) by mail.wup.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18482 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:21:54 +0100 (CET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by blackbird.wup.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA00318; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:22:47 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19971204122247.38648@wup.de> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:22:47 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: interesting job opportunity for Unix/Network Consulter (Germany) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 X-phone: Wiechers & Partner +49 2173 3964 161 X-fax: Wiechers & Partner +49 2173 3964 222 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Contact Mr. Fries from "Hanselmann Storch & Partner" in Duesseldorf: +49 211 6907240 Jobs available in Munich, Wiesbaden, Hamburg. Nice man ! -- Andreas Klemm From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 04:50:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18455 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:50:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18450 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:50:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id EAA21806 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:50:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:50:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199712041250.EAA21806@time.cdrom.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Man, SCO goes for the *throat*! :-) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm sure this is very old news, but I just saw this for the first time and was.. Erm, "amused" ;-) http://www.redhat.com/news/news-details.phtml?id=46 Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 05:39:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA21635 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:39:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA21623 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:39:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01719 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:39:26 GMT Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:39:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying spammers... In-Reply-To: <199712022212.OAA05302@kithrup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > In article <19971202144625.59050.kithrup.freebsd.chat@right.PCS> you write: > >Well, that seems to be the crux of the matter. The courts have not (AFAIK) > >ruled that a computer meets the definition of a fax machine. If it has, > >then I have a bunch of $500 claims I'd like to send out. > > We have several lawyers working with "us" on CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org/). > Their feeling is that, no, the "junk fax" law does not apply to spam -- > it is apparantly clear from the congressional record that Congress intended > only fax machines to be covered, not computers -- and even though a computer > with a fax modem is, email is *not*. AFAIK there's a bit of law in the UK or something that implies that although it's written in some statute book that you can't do XXXX. There's a limit to how far it will go, and I'm pretty certain that a fair few cases have been thrown out due to people taking the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law, which is it's purpose. Again, I don't know what it's like in the US, but I expect much the same ideal is hopefully upheld (or attempted anyway), in which case I'm still not certain whether fax == computer is true or not. They didn't intend it that way originally, but it's possibly more applicable now. The fax machine here gets less comms than my mailbox. > HOwever, if you're in the US, call yoru congresscritter and support the > Smith Bill -- it basicly adds email to the junk fax law, which has been > upheld in courts so far, meaning that the email version would likely as > well. And, unlike the other two bills introduced into congress, it is an > opt-in scheme (as opposed to an "opt-out" scheme, whereby you have to ask to > be removed from the list, for each spammer who has a list). What if we are subject to US law, i.e. own a US domain name, but aren't residents of the US ? The law still applies to our actions, although we'd need to be extradited in case of court appearances ? Does our voice still count though ? (doubt it) Steve -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 07:16:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA28124 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:16:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA28100 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:16:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02319; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:14:41 GMT Message-ID: <3485937E.F82C9A6@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:14:39 +0000 From: Ruslan Shevchenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sean Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? References: <34857E98.A0B877C3@fsl.noaa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sean Kelly wrote: > I realize a lot of FreeBSD users are old Unix hands who tend to turn > their noses up at even the slightest mention of Java (or any other > coffee product---they tend to like it out of a can with a label like > Folger's Choice with Maxwellian Crystals, percolated until it's burned > through, and taken black with six sugars). > > I get paid to do Java now, and despite all the hype it's really a nice > improvement over C++. My software development times have never been > lower. Plus, management finds it a great way to leverage their > high-powered Unix developers into developing Windows software, and all > without the kicking, the screaming, and (in some cases) the bleating. > > FreeBSD has reached a point where it can almost be called the de facto > standard operating system for Internet servers. It really is "the Power > to Serve." A very recent article in Java World > > http://www.javaworld.com/jw-12-1997/jw-12-volanomark.html > > acknowledges this fact. The author writes: ``In particular, good Java > server support in BSD/OS, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD represents a > large chunk of Internet servers to be excluded from Sun's "run anywhere" > claim.'' There are other specific mentions of FreeBSD in the article as > well. > > I think it's high time FreeBSD become one of the leading Java runtime > and development platforms. Our OS is already positioned quite well in > Internet environments and on the desktops of many of us old Unix hands. > I'm aware that some FreeBSD core team members also do paid Java > development with FreeBSD. I'd like to be able to do that as well with a > high-performance, low-bug Java system. > > I've got the enthusiasm (if not the talent), and I want to help. What > can I do? What can *we* do? Exellent. I want to join the project. The first step must be mail list, so, question: where I can subscribe ? ;) Some random comments: 1. Exists 2 ways for Java on FreeBSD project. 1. Improve the port of the Sun JDK. + : 1. Exists full source for other systems. 2. It's "canonical" implementation. -: 1. Source require licension. 2. AWT stuff use Motiff. (current 1.1.2 JDK port work fine with non-graphics stuff, but AWT realization, in practice, unusable) May be anybody can create port with static Motiff libraries ? 3. Strange binary license policy: why we can not have Sun Java in ports ? 2. Kaffe + Sun classes.zip + biss-awt toolkit implementation. + : 1. It's Freeware. Souce code aviable for all. - : 2. To yuse all features of java, we need to write many things in native layer. Related projects: kore (free replacement of java classes) The good replacement for biss-awt may be gawt (http://www.dtai.com) I this way the best first step is to develop kaffe packages on FreeBSD . for example, implement unimplemented functions in java.lang.UnixProcess So, lets start. > --Sean From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 07:20:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA28442 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:20:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA28436 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:20:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02329; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:18:33 GMT Message-ID: <34859469.69CEC56@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:18:33 +0000 From: Ruslan Shevchenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Williams CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? References: <199712040242.TAA22650@mt.sri.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nate Williams wrote: > ? I have Sun's JDK 1.1.2 running on my system now. It's "fairly stable" > ? with respect to Keith White's JDK 1.1 port. Can you allow world to download it ? From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 08:05:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA02139 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:05:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA02133 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:05:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA02712; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:05:29 GMT Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:05:29 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: John Kelly cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <3486d16b.53041676@mail.cetlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, John Kelly wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:35:11 +0000 (GMT), Stephen Roome > wrote: > > >Complaints offer opportunities you sound like you treat them as personal > >attacks. > > Not at all. But when people, who paid nothing, say they'll switch to > another OS if FreeBSD doesn't have so-and-so feature by such-and-such > time, I say let them switch. Oh agreed, although I've noticed before people taking things as personal attacks. > >I'd be happy to try to get the management here to pay more for a CD-ROM, > >but after naming it _FreeBSD_ there's a little bit of a problem with that. > > The source code is freely available -- at zero price, what more can > you ask for? I could ask for lots more, but it would be rude. =) > If you think BSDI or SCO does a better job then write them a big > check. But if you think FreeBSD is as good or better, especially > considering you can do anything with the source code, how does your > conscience allow you to use it in a commercial setting and sleep at > night without offering a voluntary contribution towards continued > development? Personally, of the options I've looked into I am happiest with FreeBSD and yes, I think it does the best job most times, and where it doesn't it appears that FreeBSD tries to do the best job. I'm not going to switch just because SMP isn't in release or stable, I run two SMP machines here both with different versions of current, sometimes they have problems. Today one of them crashed, it'd been up 60 days and it was a hardware fault, the other is doing fine. SMP may not be a 'released product' with support, and it didn't cost an arm and a leg, but I'm prepared to make it work, and hopefully I'll bring some bugs to light which can get fixed for future versions. Help in some way perhaps ? There isn't much of an option of paying more though. I can hassle the boss, but it's not going to help. I can't donate any money, I can't even afford a new motherboard to support the MMX processor I stupidly bought. Like many small ISP's and almost any company, paying for anything is not natural until it's time to go to court, donating money is just not going to happen. I don't like it, but until I've got a better paid job that's the way it is. Steve. -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 08:23:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA03455 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:23:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03442 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:23:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-41.cetlink.net [209.54.58.41]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA06477; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:23:33 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Stephen Roome Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:24:36 GMT Message-ID: <3486e4d1.58002777@mail.cetlink.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id IAA03444 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:05:29 +0000 (GMT), Stephen Roome wrote: >There isn't much of an option of paying more though. I can hassle the >boss, but it's not going to help. I can't donate any money, I can't even >afford a new motherboard to support the MMX processor I stupidly bought. Since any contributions would be _voluntary_, those who can't pay don't have to. >Like many small ISP's and almost any company, paying for anything is not >natural until it's time to go to court, donating money is just not going >to happen. Perhaps for those happy with the status quo. But any company using FreeBSD for mission critical purposes has a vested interest in its continued success and development. Those who want to influence its future can be heard by contributing money to a developers fund. The developers who are paid from that fund would likely listen to the wishes of the contributors. Those who are not able or willing to contribute can sit on the sidelines and watch. They can cheer all they like, but they can't step onto the field and play. John From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 08:44:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA05074 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:44:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.gel.usherb.ca (zeus.gel.usherb.ca [132.210.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA05049 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:43:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex.boisvert@gel.usherb.ca) Received: from castor.gel.usherb.ca. (castor.gel.usherb.ca [132.210.70.4]) by zeus.gel.usherb.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02136; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:43:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from boia01@localhost) by castor.gel.usherb.ca. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15916; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:43:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:43:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Alex.Boisvert" To: Ruslan Shevchenko cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-Reply-To: <34859469.69CEC56@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > > ? I have Sun's JDK 1.1.2 running on my system now. It's "fairly stable" > > ? with respect to Keith White's JDK 1.1 port. > > Can you allow world to download it ? It will be available "shortly" (ie. 1-2 weeks) Alex. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 09:08:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA07061 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:08:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA07054 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:08:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA17382; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:08:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA25472; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:08:22 -0700 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:08:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199712041708.KAA25472@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Ruslan Shevchenko Cc: Nate Williams , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-Reply-To: <34859469.69CEC56@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> References: <199712040242.TAA22650@mt.sri.com> <34859469.69CEC56@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > ? I have Sun's JDK 1.1.2 running on my system now. It's "fairly stable" > > ? with respect to Keith White's JDK 1.1 port. > > Can you allow world to download it ? Wrong guy, I didn't make the port. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 09:51:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA10888 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:51:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA10877 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:51:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA17713; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:51:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA25739; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:51:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:51:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199712041751.KAA25739@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Ruslan Shevchenko Cc: Sean Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-Reply-To: <3485937E.F82C9A6@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> References: <34857E98.A0B877C3@fsl.noaa.gov> <3485937E.F82C9A6@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FWIW - Sun released JDK 1.1.5 today. Downloading it as I type. :) > Some random comments: > 1. Exists 2 ways for Java on FreeBSD project. > 1. Improve the port of the Sun JDK. Or at least port a newer version and hope for the best. > + : 1. Exists full source for other systems. > 2. It's "canonical" implementation. Yep, that's my take on the matter. Kaffe is probably a better 'long term' solution, but I need Java *today*. > -: 1. Source require licension. It's not an obnoxious license, really. > 2. AWT stuff use Motiff. > (current 1.1.2 JDK port work fine with non-graphics > stuff, but > AWT realization, in practice, unusable) The current port is 1.1, unless you're aware of something I'm not. And, I think the AWT buginess has more to do with lessTif than Motif. > May be anybody can create port with static Motiff > libraries ? Maybe, but in my *very* short attempt to compile using Keith's patches I couldn't get it to work with any *tif, so I gave up trying with Motif. > 3. Strange binary license policy: > why we can not have Sun Java in ports ? One of the bad parts of their license that paranoid people avoid. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 09:53:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA10994 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:53:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tick.ssec.wisc.edu (tick.ssec.wisc.edu [144.92.108.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA10984 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:52:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dglo@tick.ssec.wisc.edu) Received: from tick.ssec.wisc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tick.ssec.wisc.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28260; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:52:46 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Glowacki Message-Id: <199712041752.LAA28260@tick.ssec.wisc.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Alex.Boisvert" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Kaffe vs. Javasoft In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 20:28:54 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:52:45 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm getting paid to work on a free scientific visualization package that won't be out for another year or so, so we're targeting the 1.2 libraries. Therefore, I have a commercial interest in running the latest and greatest... > In the long run, I think Kaffe (www.kaffe.org) is the right way to go. > Keeping in sync with Sun will still be very hard but at least, we'll have > a clean-room implementation where many people can work simultaneously, > hands in hands. Kaffe is also our best hope for JIT compilation on > FreeBSD since Sun/JavaSoft will unlikely release a JVM source code > license with JIT engine. ... > Swing components) but to get a *good* JVM on FreeBSD, we'll have to go > *our way*, we'll have to get our hands dirty for a while and come up with > a JVM (or maybe a compiler based on gcc) that rivals Microsoft's or > Symantec's (and many others) JVM. I don't think you're suggesting that people start up yet another free JVM project, but just in case it's unclear ... this is a BIG project and would essentially be duplicating the Jolt effort. > For this to happen, Kaffe and/or gcc need a good deal of work and that's > what we have work on to get it "our way" with FreeBSD without sacrifices > (with respect to performance, stability and licensing). >From various hints on the kaffe mailing list, it seems that Tim Wilkinson has moved from England to the Berkeley area and is in the process of starting up a company to sell a DOS version of Kaffe (while keeping the source code free.) Also, he and Per Bothner (of Cygnus) are working on hacking pieces of Kaffe into a Java module for the GNU compiler. (I don't have verification for any of this ... it could all be totally wrong. It's just my best guess at what's happening.) Thus, the big problem with working on Kaffe right now is that it seems to be in a period of MAJOR flux, so any work you did would probably be on outdated code... > There are many active projects that need volunteers: Kaffe, gcc/java, > kore (a java.* package clone), java-posix, BISS-AWT, and others. Take a > look at them and see what you'd like to work on. What are *your* > priorities regarding java? I'm guessing that there won't be a totally free, relatively current Java environment for at least a couple of years. Kaffe currently depends on the Javasoft classes.zip. This leaves it in a somewhat tenuous position, since Javasoft/Sun have never said those classes would always be freely available. Kore is targeting the 1.0 API and still has quite a bit of work before they reach that goal, so they won't have anything more current for quite a while. Kaffe+BISS-AWT with the Javasoft classes.zip will probably be able to run 1.1 code in the next few months, but then 1.2 will come out and throw everything back into turmoil. >From a FreeBSD perspective, I'd say the best bet is to keep working on Javasoft ports for the near future. (I'm just starting to assist in the Kore effort as my bid for an eventual 100% free JVM.) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 10:22:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12971 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:22:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12966 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:22:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA26231; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:19:58 -0800 (PST) To: Stephen Roome cc: John Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 16:05:29 GMT." Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:19:57 -0800 Message-ID: <26227.881259597@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't think that anyone should be forced to contribute at gunpoint, nor should "contribute, dammit!" be the response to any suggestion that FreeBSD could stand a little improvement, though it's certainly not a bad idea to occasionally suggest that contributions of time or money are the surest way to promote the swift advancement of FreeBSD. As in so many things, it's the degree of moderation and balance which really counts. Scream for something to be implemented and you'll be flamed, not complimented on the intelligence of your constructive criticism. Abruptly tell someone to go "do it yourself!" in response to every constructive criticism and people will also understandably distance themselves from such a rude bunch of developers, not try to help them in their task. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 11:20:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA18214 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:20:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hyperreal.org (taz.hyperreal.org [204.62.130.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18136 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:19:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anonymous@hyperreal.org) Received: (qmail 19203 invoked by uid 24); 4 Dec 1997 19:19:51 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971204110026.0091fa90@hyperreal.org> X-Sender: brian@hyperreal.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:00:26 -0800 To: Nate Williams From: Brian Behlendorf Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199712041751.KAA25739@mt.sri.com> References: <3485937E.F82C9A6@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> <34857E98.A0B877C3@fsl.noaa.gov> <3485937E.F82C9A6@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:51 AM 12/4/97 -0700, Nate Williams wrote: >> + : 1. Exists full source for other systems. >> 2. It's "canonical" implementation. > >Yep, that's my take on the matter. Kaffe is probably a better 'long >term' solution, but I need Java *today*. > >> -: 1. Source require licension. > >It's not an obnoxious license, really. Keep in mind once you've downloaded it and perused it, your ability to help with the Kaffe project is potentially hindered. Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- "it's a big world, with lots of records to play."-sig brian@hyperreal.org From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 11:25:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19006 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:25:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18991 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:25:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA18419; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:25:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA26294; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:25:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:25:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199712041925.MAA26294@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Brian Behlendorf Cc: Nate Williams , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971204110026.0091fa90@hyperreal.org> References: <3485937E.F82C9A6@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> <34857E98.A0B877C3@fsl.noaa.gov> <199712041751.KAA25739@mt.sri.com> <3.0.3.32.19971204110026.0091fa90@hyperreal.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Sun's 'educational' license for Java downloaders ] > >It's not an obnoxious license, really. > > Keep in mind once you've downloaded it and perused it, your ability to help > with the Kaffe project is potentially hindered. No kidding. But, that's not as important for me, since I really needed to look at the Sun sources for doing paid work doing Java development, since sometimes the best documentation is the sources for understanding how things work. For paid work, I'm less worried about how it affects doing free work than I would be normally, since paid work puts food on the table which is more important than how free my code is. (But, when I can have both all the better!). Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 12:26:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA25918 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:26:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25868 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:26:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA24787 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:25:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga13-18.ix.netcom.com(204.32.174.50) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma024770; Thu Dec 4 14:25:08 1997 Message-ID: <348711C4.2BCCA878@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:25:40 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Man, SCO goes for the *throat*! :-) References: <199712041250.EAA21806@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I'm sure this is very old news, but I just saw this for the > first time and was.. Erm, "amused" ;-) > > http://www.redhat.com/news/news-details.phtml?id=46 > > Jordan Yeah, we saw it too. No chance this is (yet another) machination from RH marketing? Cheers, Jerry Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 12:32:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA26626 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:32:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA26560 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:31:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id VAA04627; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:15:19 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id UAA02526; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:55:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19971204205502.04182@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:55:02 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Man, SCO goes for the *throat*! :-) References: <199712041250.EAA21806@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199712041250.EAA21806@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 04:50:34AM -0800 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 04:50:34AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I'm sure this is very old news, but I just saw this for the > first time and was.. Erm, "amused" ;-) > > http://www.redhat.com/news/news-details.phtml?id=46 Sounds as like they have to save their ass ;-)) -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 13:35:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03964 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:35:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (mail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03910 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:34:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonc@pinnacle.co.nz) Received: from news.iconz.co.nz (status.gen.nz [202.14.100.1]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA160520881271268; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:34:28 +1300 (NZDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news.iconz.co.nz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id KAA29909; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:34:28 +1300 Received: from tui.pinnacle.co.nz (tui.pinnacle.co.nz [202.37.163.3]) by kakapo.pinnacle.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07183; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:38:18 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from localhost (jonc@localhost) by tui.pinnacle.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA15636; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:38:18 +1300 (NZDT) X-Authentication-Warning: tui.pinnacle.co.nz: jonc owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:38:17 +1300 (NZDT) From: Jonathan Chen Reply-To: Jonathan Chen To: "Alex.Boisvert" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Alex.Boisvert wrote: [snip] > What would be good is to get together a ""Team Java-FreeBSD" and > standardize on some _specific_ JDK release. This way, we can all work > together. Many people have JDK 1.1.4 in their hands now, maybe that > would be a good starting ("freeze") point? Perhaps we can wait for 1.1.5 > if it's released in early Q1'98. Waiting for 1.1.5 would be a real drag.. :-( I'd be keen on helping out with a port to 1.1.4; but looking thru' the code, there's stuff that I've never dealt before (eg: context switching stuff) and which would take me a bit of time to get up to speed on. Having someone else to discuss it with would sure make it a lot simpler. So yes, A "Team Java-FreeBSD" would be a major plus. Cheers. -- Jonathan Chen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "I don't want to achive immortality through my works.. I want to achieve it through not dying" - Woody Allen From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 15:32:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14924 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:32:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14916 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:32:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA20130; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:32:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA27972; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:32:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:32:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199712042332.QAA27972@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Jonathan Chen Cc: "Alex.Boisvert" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > What would be good is to get together a ""Team Java-FreeBSD" and > > standardize on some _specific_ JDK release. This way, we can all work > > together. Many people have JDK 1.1.4 in their hands now, maybe that > > would be a good starting ("freeze") point? Perhaps we can wait for 1.1.5 > > if it's released in early Q1'98. > > Waiting for 1.1.5 would be a real drag.. :-( Why, it was released today. ;) Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 17:55:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA26088 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:55:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA26064 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:54:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from softweyr@xmission.com) Received: from obie [199.104.124.49] by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xdmyI-0003B5-00; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:54:27 -0700 Message-ID: <34876099.167EB0E7@xmission.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:02:01 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Glowacki CC: "Alex.Boisvert" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kaffe vs. Javasoft References: <199712041752.LAA28260@tick.ssec.wisc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dave Glowacki wrote: > From various hints on the kaffe mailing list, it seems that Tim Wilkinson > has moved from England to the Berkeley area and is in the process of starting > up a company to sell a DOS version of Kaffe (while keeping the source code > free.) Also, he and Per Bothner (of Cygnus) are working on hacking pieces > of Kaffe into a Java module for the GNU compiler. (I don't have verification > for any of this ... it could all be totally wrong. It's just my best guess > at what's happening.) There was a presentation at Embedded Systems Conference - West last October about upcoming Java language support in the "GNU compiler suite" (gcc). I didn't attend the session, but have the conference notes on CD-ROM somewhere around here. I don't know what kind of "Java environment" support this would entail, but they seemed to be talking of a JVM-less native code compiler. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 18:29:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA29027 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:29:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA29018 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:29:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA12193 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:28:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga27-20.ix.netcom.com(206.214.125.52) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma012107; Thu Dec 4 20:28:14 1997 Message-ID: <348766E8.7C2E9E59@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:28:56 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Man, SCO goes for the *throat*! Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2FC7B8E53AC674921B608250" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2FC7B8E53AC674921B608250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm no SCO fan, but fair is fair... Here is their response: > > This was not sent by SCO, but one of our distributors. It has not been > received very favorably at SCO, you can be sure. Red Hat, of course, is > trying to get as much mileage out of it as they can (can't totally blame > them (although they should know that it didn't originate from SCO)). > > gfd > I just had a hard time believing that they would intentionally participate in this sort of spamming. Cheers, Jerry Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com --------------2FC7B8E53AC674921B608250 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from bftoemail4.bigfoot.com (bftoemail4.bigfoot.com [208.156.39.194]) by ixsrs1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7/(NETCOM v1.01)) with SMTP id PAA27931; for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns3.harborcom.net ([206.158.4.7]) by bftoemail2.BIGFOOT.COM (Bigfoot Toe Mail v1.0 with message handle 971204_170834_3_bftoemail2_smtp; Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:08:34 -0500 for jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com Received: from hub.freebsd.org [204.216.27.18] by ns3.harborcom.net with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xdjQd-0001b4-00; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:07:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25940; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:26:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA25918 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:26:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25868 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:26:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA24787 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:25:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga13-18.ix.netcom.com(204.32.174.50) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma024770; Thu Dec 4 14:25:08 1997 Message-ID: <348711C4.2BCCA878@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:25:40 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Man, SCO goes for the *throat*! :-) References: <199712041250.EAA21806@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I'm sure this is very old news, but I just saw this for the > first time and was.. Erm, "amused" ;-) > > http://www.redhat.com/news/news-details.phtml?id=46 > > Jordan Yeah, we saw it too. No chance this is (yet another) machination from RH marketing? Cheers, Jerry Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com --------------2FC7B8E53AC674921B608250-- From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 18:53:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01601 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:53:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01583 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:53:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA24569 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:52:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga27-20.ix.netcom.com(206.214.125.52) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma024555; Thu Dec 4 20:52:35 1997 Message-ID: <34876C8D.EFFA3DE3@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:53:01 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kaffe vs. Javasoft References: <199712041752.LAA28260@tick.ssec.wisc.edu> <34876099.167EB0E7@xmission.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It translates the bytecodes to target the gcc backend. The info I saw is on the Cygnus website. I've heard from someone that it is progressing *very* slowly. Cheers, Jerry Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com Wes Peters wrote: > There was a presentation at Embedded Systems Conference - West last > October about upcoming Java language support in the "GNU compiler > suite" (gcc). I didn't attend the session, but have the conference > notes on CD-ROM somewhere around here. I don't know what kind of > "Java environment" support this would entail, but they seemed to be > talking of a JVM-less native code compiler. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 19:22:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA04730 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:22:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tick.ssec.wisc.edu (tick.ssec.wisc.edu [144.92.108.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA04719 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:22:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dglo@tick.ssec.wisc.edu) Received: from tick.ssec.wisc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tick.ssec.wisc.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02610; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:19:15 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Glowacki Message-Id: <199712050319.VAA02610@tick.ssec.wisc.edu> To: Wes Peters cc: "Alex.Boisvert" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kaffe vs. Javasoft In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:02:01 MST." <34876099.167EB0E7@xmission.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:19:14 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > There was a presentation at Embedded Systems Conference - West last > October about upcoming Java language support in the "GNU compiler > suite" (gcc). I didn't attend the session, but have the conference > notes on CD-ROM somewhere around here. I don't know what kind of > "Java environment" support this would entail, but they seemed to be > talking of a JVM-less native code compiler. You can get the Cygnus gjava notes from ftp://ftp.cygnus.com/pub/home/bothner/esc97w-slides.ps.gz (there's also a 7 month old gjava.tar.gz in the same place) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 20:51:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA12704 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:51:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA12696 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:51:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id UAA04476; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:51:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id LAA08492; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:45:51 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971205114547.28435@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:45:48 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Man, SCO goes for the *throat*! :-) References: <199712041250.EAA21806@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199712041250.EAA21806@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 04:50:34AM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 04:50:34AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I'm sure this is very old news, but I just saw this for the > first time and was.. Erm, "amused" ;-) > > http://www.redhat.com/news/news-details.phtml?id=46 > What makes UnixWare 2.1.2 so hot? It's Web and Java ready. Fully > optimized for the Internet and intranets. And, most > important... You get unprecedented, mainframe levels of system > reliability. Funny that they haven't called it 3.0 if it has all these new features in it. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 21:09:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14569 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:09:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14557 for chat; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:09:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hsu) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:09:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199712050509.VAA14557@hub.freebsd.org> To: chat Subject: anyone going to Internet World, NY? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm going to be at Internet World in NYC next week. Is anyone else going? From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 4 21:29:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16122 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:29:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16102 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:28:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from softweyr@xmission.com) Received: from obie [199.104.124.49] by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xdqJk-0003qo-00; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:28:49 -0700 Message-ID: <348792F8.41C67EA6@xmission.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:36:56 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Man, SCO goes for the *throat*! References: <348766E8.7C2E9E59@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jerry Hicks wrote: > I just had a hard time believing that they would intentionally > participate in this sort of spamming. Your experience with SCO has been somewhat different from mine, then. I had no problems whatsoever believing this came from SCO, which has often leaked such drivel out the back doors of a badly unmanaged company. Perhaps they've gotten better in the last few years, I've tried (and mostly succeeded) to stay away from SCO. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 03:31:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA16088 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:31:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA16082 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:31:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA06674; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:31:18 GMT Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:31:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: John Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <26227.881259597@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I don't think that anyone should be forced to contribute at gunpoint, > nor should "contribute, dammit!" be the response to any suggestion > that FreeBSD could stand a little improvement, though it's certainly > not a bad idea to occasionally suggest that contributions of time or > money are the surest way to promote the swift advancement of FreeBSD. I think time devoted is better. Right now I could probably donate $50, but time is money and I'd be more prepared to spend $500 of my own time getting something to work for FreeBSD and then helping others use it. In that sense there's already a great deal of monetary contribution, it's just that no-one actually hands over the notes. > Abruptly tell someone to go "do it yourself!" in response > to every constructive criticism and people will also understandably > distance themselves from such a rude bunch of developers, not try to > help them in their task. It's a nice point and it's true, but it doesn't happen that much thankfully. Steve. -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 08:01:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA08707 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:01:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jupiter.leirianet.pt (jupiter.leirianet.pt [195.23.69.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA08692 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:01:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jm@pluriproj.pt) Received: from antares.pluriproj.pt (antares.pluriproj.pt [195.23.69.137]) by jupiter.leirianet.pt (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27723 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:44:32 GMT From: jm@pluriproj.pt (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Monteiro?=) To: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Off-Topic Question Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 15:44:53 GMT X-PGP-Key-Fingerprint: 4289 7864 7C6F 06C6 BB1E 299E 8FFA DC61 Organization: Leiri@net Reply-To: Jose Monteiro Message-ID: <348a212e.16691059@mail.leirianet.pt> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id IAA08702 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Sorry about the off-topic question, but can anyone tell me how many GID's FreeBSD supports? Thanks, Jose From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 09:09:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA14238 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:09:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA14192 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br) Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA14778 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:08:19 -0300 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256564.005E23B6 ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:08:15 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA From: "Daniel Sobral" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256564.005DEC7C.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:08:08 -0300 Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > >Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm > > >going to get. :) > > > You mean spring in the Southern hemisphere of course ;-). > I didn't think you had spring in the southern hemisphere. Doesn't > equatorial wobble result in a quick jump from autumn straight into > summer? Nothing else would account for the average southern islander > being able to wear a loincloth 10 months out of the year. :) We measure the change of passing of seasons by the feasability of wearing suit & tie. :-) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 09:22:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA15719 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:22:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from keymaster.fsl.noaa.gov (root@keymaster.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA15709 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:22:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kelly@fsl.noaa.gov) Received: from cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.101]) by keymaster.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18691; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:22:34 GMT Received: from fsl.noaa.gov (auk.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.124]) by cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01996; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:22:32 GMT Message-ID: <34883857.DA04EF94@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:22:32 -0700 From: Sean Kelly Organization: CIRA/NOAA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/725) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Williams CC: "Alex.Boisvert" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can we do about Java? References: <199712040242.TAA22650@mt.sri.com> <199712040508.WAA23295@mt.sri.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I've > got a couple tens of thousands of lines of Java code I can throw against > it for testing purposes that uses about every esoteric feature in Java > except RMI. :) And I've got nothing *but* RMI code. Let me at it! --Sean From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 09:44:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18161 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:44:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18138 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:44:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paulg@interlog.com) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (paulg@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA24934; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:43:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:43:27 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Griffith To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Monteiro?= cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Off-Topic Question In-Reply-To: <348a212e.16691059@mail.leirianet.pt> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA18151 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If I am correct all BSD systems should support up to 65536 GID. I think the GID is a 8 bit number so 0 to 65536 groups. I am not sure how it handles UID, but then again I yet to see a Unix system with over 64K users Paul Griffith - paulg@interlog.com On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, [ISO-8859-1] José Monteiro wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry about the off-topic question, but can anyone tell me how many > GID's FreeBSD supports? > > Thanks, > > Jose > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 10:02:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA19758 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:02:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19737 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:02:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12617 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:00:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RC5/64 Yehaa! FreeBSD beats linux :-) From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 19:00:10 +0100 Message-ID: <12615.881344810@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 1 Team EvangeLista (Macs Rule! :-) 6502463 43 days 5-Dec 459146.58 2 Japan FreeBSD Users Group 2509047 24 days 5-Dec 311813.51 3 Japan Linux Users Group 2502979 40 days 5-Dec 189670.37 Well, sort of: Win32 (95/NT) 42708626 MacOS 18357613 Linux 12435001 Solaris 7821816 FreeBSD 3021379 OS/2 2627203 We obviously need more machines working on this! http://www.distributed.net/rc5 Who makes a port so the client starts automatically at boot ? :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 11:18:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA27023 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:18:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paladio.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27011 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:17:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by paladio.canonware.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA20540; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:15:11 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:15:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Evans X-Sender: jasone@paladio To: Paul Griffith cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Monteiro?= , chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Off-Topic Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Paul Griffith wrote: > If I am correct all BSD systems should support up to 65536 GID. I think > the GID is a 8 bit number so 0 to 65536 groups. I am not sure how it > handles UID, but then again I yet to see a Unix system with over 64K users Uhh, I'm confused. 8 bits ==> 256 16 bits ==> 65536 Which do you mean? Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 11:34:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA28806 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:34:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hyperreal.org (taz.hyperreal.org [204.62.130.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28761 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:34:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anonymous@hyperreal.org) Received: (qmail 26415 invoked by uid 24); 5 Dec 1997 19:34:31 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971205111801.00919d20@hyperreal.org> X-Sender: brian@hyperreal.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 11:18:01 -0800 To: Poul-Henning Kamp , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brian Behlendorf Subject: Re: RC5/64 Yehaa! FreeBSD beats linux :-) In-Reply-To: <12615.881344810@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:00 PM 12/5/97 +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >Who makes a port so the client starts automatically at boot ? :-) Win95 and Mac. Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- "it's a big world, with lots of records to play."-sig brian@hyperreal.org From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 12:41:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06164 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:41:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06152 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:41:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@Haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA11341; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:37:02 +0200 (EET) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:37:02 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jason Evans cc: Paul Griffith , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Monteiro?= , chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Off-Topic Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Jason Evans wrote: > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Paul Griffith wrote: > > If I am correct all BSD systems should support up to 65536 GID. I think > > the GID is a 8 bit number so 0 to 65536 groups. I am not sure how it > > handles UID, but then again I yet to see a Unix system with over 64K users > > Uhh, I'm confused. > > 8 bits ==> 256 > 16 bits ==> 65536 > > Which do you mean? > All in all, aren't both UIDs and GIDs 32 bit numbers in FreeBSD? 2^32 > 4*1000*1000*1000 Where would you get all those users from? > Jason > > Jason Evans > Email: [jasone@canonware.com] > Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] > Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 14:25:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17043 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:25:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17039 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:25:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA28759; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:25:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA03041; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:25:36 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:25:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199712052225.PAA03041@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-Reply-To: <199712052220.OAA03398@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199712052055.NAA02517@mt.sri.com> <199712052220.OAA03398@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Moved to -chat ] > So what is your scanner + software for scanning documents? It doesn't run under FreeBSD, and is whatever came with the HP scanner. We do have scanner software for FreeBSD, but it doesn't do OCR. The scanning software for the HP is in ports 'hpscan', which I helped make the port for. (Joerg and Jordan have since grealy improved it.) It just builds jpg images using HP scanners. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 14:53:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19920 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:53:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerberus.partsnow.com (gatekeeper.partsnow.com [207.155.26.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19902; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:52:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from don@partsnow.com) Received: (from bin@localhost) by cerberus.partsnow.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id OAA21002; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:53:05 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cerberus.partsnow.com: bin set sender to using -f Received: from wildeweb(192.168.100.10) by cerberus.partsnow.com via smap (V2.0) id xma020998; Fri, 5 Dec 97 14:52:35 -0800 Message-ID: <34888553.419023D8@partsnow.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:50:59 -0800 From: Don Wilde Organization: Soligen, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp , don@partsnow.com CC: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: RC5/64 Yehaa! FreeBSD beats linux :-) References: <12615.881344810@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Who makes a port so the client starts automatically at boot ? :-) > I had my PPro run an rc.d script on boot, though since it's a FreeBSD box it wasn't down unless I took it down :))) The client was quite happy to come up that way. Got to admit though, I did it on trust because I didn't see what the source code was before I did so. Before I play any more Bovine games I'm going to know exactly what I'm unleashing on my machine, especially programs I spawn from my init sequence. 8-0 > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." ^^^^^^ hey, not fair. I would if it could drive my Compaq Concerto's way cool pen. I've never been able to find out from Compaq what the driver looked like. It's otherwise a generic 486DX, but I'd rather not give up my pen, which is the ultimate painting tool. -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ ________ _________ _________ ___==_ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [don@PartsNow.com] [http://www.PartsNow.com ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo--ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo--oo  From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 15:21:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA22161 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:21:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA22151 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:21:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 9613 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Dec 1997 23:32:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19971206003222.58523@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:32:22 +0100 From: "A. Braukmann" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RC5/64 Yehaa! FreeBSD beats linux :-) References: <12615.881344810@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-md5; boundary=uAKRQypu60I7Lcqm X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <12615.881344810@critter.freebsd.dk>; from Poul-Henning Kamp on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 07:00:10PM +0100 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --uAKRQypu60I7Lcqm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 07:00:10PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > FreeBSD 3021379 > OS/2 2627203 > > We obviously need more machines working on this! hmm, I'm sorry for not being able to supply the FreeBSD-Team with more than 3 BSD machines, but even before Christmas I'm going to add 17 P200 to the rc5 effort. (1 Novell Server, 1 FreeBSD Server, and another 16 NT-based workstations. I'm quite surprised by the cracking performance of our good old AMD K5-based (100 MHz) WWW-Server; it cracks along with 330.000 keys/sec and therefor outperforms an 200 MHz P200? > Who makes a port so the client starts automatically at boot ? :-) I've installed the Win32-Client on our office-work machines (4xP120 and the above mentioned P200) but our employees are used to switch off the machines. So they're contributing only for the regular working times. Greetings, Andreas -- /// TSE TeleService GmbH | Gsf: Arne Reuter | /// Hovestrasse 14 | Andreas Braukmann | We do it with /// D-48351 Everswinkel | HRB: 1430, AG WAF | FreeBSD/SMP /// ------------------------------------------------------------------- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B --uAKRQypu60I7Lcqm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNIiPBnKj4VjLq0fFAQGtcwP/WaGlmXFN6jeVWKqthsRjHmV7N0OGY6S+ O2E+cTnViRwNJpJjq4kiyKLr47BQLT2GtgOIF4vB+i0wzE5y3KBZPjKCxBqMOnEZ I+nz6mc5K0X3V5vs1VeJ3eSbqILr+nB7xR52qZOpG4N+qBIgw+VZA4pWMo/FheNY R5pnyg11Wmc= =J8pC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --uAKRQypu60I7Lcqm-- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 15:48:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA24499 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:48:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freya.circle.net (freya.circle.net [209.95.95.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24491 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:48:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from team-freebsd@circle.net) Received: by FREYA with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:49:19 -0500 Message-ID: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A404E283@FREYA> From: Team FreeBSD RC5-64 Effort To: "'freebsd-chat@freebsd.org'" Subject: Team FreeBSD breaks into top 10! Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:49:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org December 5, 1997 Today, the Team FreeBSD RC-5 effort, after just 43 days, has broken past the top 10 of all RC-5 teams, now ranking #9! Thanks for everyone's support who has joined Team FreeBSD. And please, tell your friends! And keep crackin' those keys! Any prize winnings directed to Team FreeBSD will be donated in full to FreeBSD development. Support the **original world-wide FreeBSD RC-5 effort**, put your idle CPU cycles to good work! Join Team FreeBSD! To learn how, visit: http://www.circle.net/team-freebsd Thanks! Troy Cobb RC-5 Team FreeBSD Coordinator From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 15:57:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25213 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:57:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25206 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:57:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03832; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:57:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712052357.PAA03832@rah.star-gate.com> To: Nate Williams cc: Amancio Hasty , chat@hub.freebsd.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: shared library with static Motif? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 15:25:36 MST." <199712052225.PAA03041@mt.sri.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3829.881366232.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 15:57:12 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I use over here "SANE" which can also work in conjuction with gimp. There was some talk in the sane project by individuals to provide OCR. Have Fun, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 16:11:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26260 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:11:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26252 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:11:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03198; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:11:32 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id SAA06713; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:11:01 -0600 Message-ID: <19971205181100.40259@right.PCS> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:11:00 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: "A. Braukmann" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RC5/64 Yehaa! FreeBSD beats linux :-) References: <12615.881344810@critter.freebsd.dk> <19971206003222.58523@paert.tse-online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <19971206003222.58523@paert.tse-online.de>; from A. Braukmann on Dec 12, 1997 at 12:32:22AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Dec 12, 1997 at 12:32:22AM +0100, A. Braukmann wrote: > > Who makes a port so the client starts automatically at boot ? :-) > I've installed the Win32-Client on our office-work machines (4xP120 and > the above mentioned P200) but our employees are used to switch off > the machines. So they're contributing only for the regular working times. Heh. I've installed the clients on the NT workstations here, but the users insist on running this dratted Open-GL screensaver, which sucks up all the CPU time. Thus, they only contribute when they are actually working on their machines. *sigh* -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 17:23:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02145 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:23:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (root@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02141 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:23:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA15555; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:23:22 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:23:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Team FreeBSD RC5-64 Effort cc: "'freebsd-chat@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Team FreeBSD breaks into top 10! In-Reply-To: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A404E283@FREYA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just out of curiosity. Why don't we combine two FreeBSD teams? Is that for the same reason as there is three BSD projects? :) -- Yan On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Team FreeBSD RC5-64 Effort wrote: >December 5, 1997 > >Today, the Team FreeBSD RC-5 effort, after just 43 days, has broken past >the top 10 of all RC-5 teams, now ranking #9! > >Thanks for everyone's support who has joined Team FreeBSD. And please, >tell your friends! And keep crackin' those keys! > >Any prize winnings directed to Team FreeBSD will be donated in full to >FreeBSD development. > >Support the **original world-wide FreeBSD RC-5 effort**, put your idle >CPU cycles to good work! > >Join Team FreeBSD! > >To learn how, visit: >http://www.circle.net/team-freebsd > >Thanks! >Troy Cobb >RC-5 Team FreeBSD Coordinator > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 5 21:40:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA20245 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:40:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20237 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:40:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-63.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.63]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA31757 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:40:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA07276 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:40:47 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712060540.XAA07276@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Team FreeBSD breaks into top 10! In-reply-to: Message from Jan Koum of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 16:23:21 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 23:40:47 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Just out of curiosity. Why don't we combine two FreeBSD teams? Is > that for the same reason as there is three BSD projects? :) > > -- Yan You can comine teams but once a team is created then all blocks posted to that team stay there forever. This is to prevent the politicing of some low life's who would resort to "buying" completed blocks rather than crunching new ones. It also reduces the load Bovine's overloaded NT server(s) are suffering. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 6 03:22:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA08738 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:22:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA08729 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:22:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@Haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA18030; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:22:04 +0200 (EET) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:22:03 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jonathan Lemon cc: "A. Braukmann" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RC5/64 Yehaa! FreeBSD beats linux :-) In-Reply-To: <19971205181100.40259@right.PCS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > On Dec 12, 1997 at 12:32:22AM +0100, A. Braukmann wrote: > > > Who makes a port so the client starts automatically at boot ? :-) > > I've installed the Win32-Client on our office-work machines (4xP120 and > > the above mentioned P200) but our employees are used to switch off > > the machines. So they're contributing only for the regular working times. > > Heh. I've installed the clients on the NT workstations here, but the > users insist on running this dratted Open-GL screensaver, which sucks > up all the CPU time. Thus, they only contribute when they are actually > working on their machines. *sigh* Well, up the niceness level of the rc5 service 8-) > -- > Jonathan > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 6 09:34:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01988 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:34:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01983 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:34:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 29822 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Dec 1997 17:45:53 -0000 Message-ID: <19971206184553.58471@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:45:53 +0100 From: "A. Braukmann" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: wanted: mail-filter capable of the maildir-format Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-md5; boundary=TrnltStXW4iwmi0w X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --TrnltStXW4iwmi0w Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, after having browsed through different information source regarding the ${subject} I have to ask here: Does anybody knows of a mail-filter that is able to deliver directly to 'maildir'-mailfolders? 'maildir' is a newer mailfolder-format supported for example by qmail (MTA) and mutt (MUA). Thanks in advance, Andreas -- /// TSE TeleService GmbH | Gsf: Arne Reuter | /// Hovestrasse 14 | Andreas Braukmann | We do it with /// D-48351 Everswinkel | HRB: 1430, AG WAF | FreeBSD/SMP /// ------------------------------------------------------------------- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B --TrnltStXW4iwmi0w Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNImPUXKj4VjLq0fFAQGV2AP+PGlBNVRa7dF4kz1qxmQD8hqPEEaeOiSL avvaIfjoeCWbKkb6ibKAOQWYb8Hko6+pfWrd44xpMgGF/keOCMX2zkGVDf2qFXfu VBbIvnzM7NqUCDMuOmbdc6qEcJgq9PM4FczT5V/i+hAaFxHYYFW/XAU4LeyuHnCm W/77MM+M4CM= =1TSX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TrnltStXW4iwmi0w-- From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 6 12:52:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA12867 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:52:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from u1.farm.idt.net (root@u1.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12862 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:52:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garycorc@idt.net) Received: from idt.net (ppp-70.ts-1.mlb.idt.net [169.132.71.70]) by u1.farm.idt.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04164 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:52:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3489BACF.3C01BFA3@idt.net> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 15:51:27 -0500 From: "Gary T. Corcoran" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Perl hits the big time Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, it seems Perl has hit the big time... I just saw a **TV** commercial (from a bookstore [chain?]) advertising the O'Reilly Perl books - and nothing else in that commercial! Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 6 16:29:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA28334 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:29:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28321 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:29:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA08803 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:28:59 -0800 (PST) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Anyone have a reference to the forgery lawsuit? Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 16:28:59 -0800 Message-ID: <8800.881454539@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You know, the one posted here recently detailing the damages awarded a company which managed to prove that another had spammed in its name? Well, this just happened to us. :( Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 6 17:31:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03392 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:31:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03375 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:31:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01074; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:30:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712070130.RAA01074@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone have a reference to the forgery lawsuit? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 16:28:59 PST." <8800.881454539@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:30:54 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If you do get to find out please don't forget to sue for about $100,000 or so who knows maybe the spammers can actively support FreeBSD. I never dreamt that I woould love spammers 8) Good Luck, Amancio > You know, the one posted here recently detailing the damages awarded a > company which managed to prove that another had spammed in its name? > > Well, this just happened to us. :( > > Thanks! > > Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 6 19:36:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10946 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:36:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10940 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:36:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jack@diamond.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.xtalwind.net [127.0.0.1]) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA03546; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:36:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:36:09 -0500 (EST) From: jack X-Sender: jack@germanium.xtalwind.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone have a reference to the forgery lawsuit? In-Reply-To: <8800.881454539@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > You know, the one posted here recently detailing the damages awarded a > company which managed to prove that another had spammed in its name? > > Well, this just happened to us. :( http://www.zilker.net/nospam/judgment.html The following is the cool stuff from that page. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED and DECREED that Plaintiffs Tracy LaQuey Parker, Patrick Parker, Peter Rauch, and Zilker Internet Park, Inc., have and recover from Defendants C.N. Enterprises and Craig Nowak, jointly and severally, their actual damages in the amount of $13,910 and attorney's fees in the amount of $5,000 and that in addition to this total amount of $18,910 Plaintiffs Tracy LaQuey Parker, Patrick Parker, Peter Rauch, and Zilker Internet Park, Inc., have and recover from C.N. Enterprises and Craig Nowak their costs of Court and post-judgment interest at the rate of ten percent (10%) per annum compounded annually from and after the date of November 10, 1997. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Finger jacko@diamond.xtalwind.net or jack@xtalwind.net http://www.xtalwind.net/~jacko/pubpgp.html #include for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 6 22:41:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19484 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:41:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp9.portal.net.au [202.12.71.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19478 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:41:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00681; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:06:07 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712070636.RAA00681@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Julian Elischer cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DEVFS: John, can you suggest.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 13:58:24 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 17:06:07 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I'll make this my "project of the day" (that and the laundry, now that > they have Mike Smith's Canadian Quarters out of the machine and it works > again) :-) What? If I'd known it would take this long to get it fixed, I would have swapped machines with one from another floor. (Bloody funny money you people use... 8) mike