From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 7 01:30:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA29830 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:30:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA29825 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:30:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA13485; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:22:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd013483; Sun Dec 7 01:22:13 1997 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:19:46 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Mike Smith cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DEVFS: John, can you suggest.. In-Reply-To: <199712070636.RAA00681@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org well actually I discoverd that it hadn't been fixed.. I ended up going to another floor. On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > I'll make this my "project of the day" (that and the laundry, now that > > they have Mike Smith's Canadian Quarters out of the machine and it works > > again) :-) > > What? If I'd known it would take this long to get it fixed, I would > have swapped machines with one from another floor. > > (Bloody funny money you people use... 8) > > mike > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 7 01:40:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA00627 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:40:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA00622 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:40:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id BAA27545; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:40:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id RAA01227; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:36:17 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971207173615.53657@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:36:15 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone have a reference to the forgery lawsuit? References: <8800.881454539@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <8800.881454539@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 04:28:59PM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 04:28:59PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > You know, the one posted here recently detailing the damages awarded a > company which managed to prove that another had spammed in its name? > > Well, this just happened to us. :( You, too, huh? Who was it? Last weekend I got stuff sent from pseudodomains SECRETSOFTHENET.COM, THE-WXPERTS.ORG and WEBSECRETS.NET. I've forgotten where they came from, somewhere in uunet-land. uunet hasn't seen fit to respond to my complaint. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 7 02:56:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA03439 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 02:56:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mutara.noc.erols.net (root@mutara.noc.erols.net [207.172.25.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA03435 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 02:56:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gjp@erols.com) Received: from mutara.noc.erols.net (gjp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mutara.noc.erols.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA01234 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 05:56:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <348A80D7.63DECDAD@erols.com> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 05:56:23 -0500 From: Gary Palmer Organization: Erols Internet NOC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Please ignore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org testing (no, really? :) ) Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 7 04:55:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA07976 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 04:55:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA07965 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 04:55:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01903; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:45:05 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712071115.VAA01903@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Julian Elischer cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DEVFS: John, can you suggest.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 07 Dec 1997 01:19:46 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 21:45:04 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > well actually I discoverd that it hadn't been fixed.. > I ended up going to another floor. That's what I did too. I think I deserve an award of some sort for this. Perhaps a large spanner? > On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > > I'll make this my "project of the day" (that and the laundry, now that > > > they have Mike Smith's Canadian Quarters out of the machine and it works > > > again) :-) > > > > What? If I'd known it would take this long to get it fixed, I would > > have swapped machines with one from another floor. > > > > (Bloody funny money you people use... 8) > > > > mike > > > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 7 08:44:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA07261 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 08:44:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA07250 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 08:44:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paulg@interlog.com) Received: from default (ip213-44.cc.interlog.com [207.34.213.44]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07772; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:43:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19971207114614.006a2cb4@interlog.com> X-Sender: paulg@interlog.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 11:46:14 -0500 To: Narvi , Jason Evans From: Paul Griffith Subject: Re: Off-Topic Question Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Monteiro , chat@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I can stand corrected, I guess I spend way to much time fixing Macs. 8 bits does ==> 256 16 bits does ==> 65536 Paul Griffith >> >> On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Paul Griffith wrote: >> > If I am correct all BSD systems should support up to 65536 GID. I think >> > the GID is a 8 bit number so 0 to 65536 groups. I am not sure how it >> > handles UID, but then again I yet to see a Unix system with over 64K users >> >> Uhh, I'm confused. >> >> 8 bits ==> 256 >> 16 bits ==> 65536 >> >> Which do you mean? >> > >All in all, aren't both UIDs and GIDs 32 bit numbers in FreeBSD? > >2^32 > 4*1000*1000*1000 > >Where would you get all those users from? > From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 04:44:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03315 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 04:44:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from blue.bad.bris.ac.uk (blue.bad.bris.ac.uk [137.222.132.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA03305 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 04:44:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk) Received: (qmail 22912 invoked by uid 57242); 8 Dec 1997 12:44:23 -0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:44:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Aled Treharne Reply-To: felix@royal.net To: "A. Braukmann" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanted: mail-filter capable of the maildir-format In-Reply-To: <19971206184553.58471@paert.tse-online.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, A. Braukmann wrote: > after having browsed through different information source regarding > the ${subject} I have to ask here: > Does anybody knows of a mail-filter that is able to deliver directly > to 'maildir'-mailfolders? procmail (v3.11pre7) supports the maildir format, so long as you have your mail in maildir formats in the first place. On this not, does anyone know of an easy way of changing normal (?) mailboxes into maildir format? At the mo' I have to save the mail to a temp folder, delete the old folder, create the new maildir directories (cur,new,tmp..etc) and then save the mail to the new maildir folder. It's a real pain, even with Pine's select (;) command. We would like to change all of our users accross to maildir format, but it's just too much hassle. > 'maildir' is a newer mailfolder-format supported for example by > qmail (MTA) and mutt (MUA). Pine 3.95 supports maildir format too. :) - -Taff. Aled Treharne felix@royal.net "Big Bird meets Salvador Dali has been brought to you by the numbers L and ), and by the letter 3." For PGP Public key finger taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk #include(std.disclaim) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNIvrpsaJukNO1flNAQHQ8gP/fcOdhY/UioyQyfa+deAq9WZRSwQpbycJ Zp06sjhnIcz49lloIMqQIXOwhcPiiY9EoW5PrCnalsgDm0NyqbaUoCQru5T2gpZO Rv9ILPGSz1N2wcAx5DwwzGIhR6m5bylNs3iZiomI169RH/rJCocVsCdHQVYif7zU +Z/2nGQyNtk= =L65p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 10:33:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA27464 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:33:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA27443 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:33:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 16319 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Dec 1997 18:46:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19971208194657.24146@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:46:57 +0100 From: Andreas Braukmann To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: felix@royal.net Subject: Re: wanted: mail-filter capable of the maildir-format References: <19971206184553.58471@paert.tse-online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: ; from Aled Treharne on Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 12:44:17PM +0000 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 12:44:17PM +0000, Aled Treharne wrote: > procmail (v3.11pre7) supports the maildir format, so long as you have > your mail in maildir formats in the first place. uuups. I was just in the mood of writing my success-story. But as far as I know, procmail doesn't support maildir out of the box, but one has to integrate a certain patch. (A link to the patch is easy to be found at http://www.qmail.org. Works like a charm, besides that I just have to re-activate my procmail- knowledge. > On this not, does anyone know of an easy way of changing normal (?) > mailboxes into maildir format? At the mo' I have to save the mail to a > temp folder, delete the old folder, create the new maildir directories > (cur,new,tmp..etc) In the first place you really should use 'maildirmake' to create new maildirs. It's part of the standard qmail-distribution. > and then save the mail to the new maildir folder. It's > a real pain, even with Pine's select (;) command. We would like to change ;-)) I was searching for the maildir-capable filter just because of the 'pain' to have to select all the mail for each mailing-list manually and then saving it to the folder. (Although, ...that's quite easy and effective with mutt) > all of our users accross to maildir format, but it's just too much > hassle. Right. But have a closer look at the 'user-contributed Maildir Support' section of the qmail-website. ("Ivan Kohler has a mbox2maildir program.") That's the place I've found the procmail-patch. (Hint, hint, ... it really should be integrated in the procmail-port ...) > Pine 3.95 supports maildir format too. :) fine. But I switched to mutt for misc. reasons (threaded mail-sorting ...) some time ago. Regards, Andreas Braukmann -- /// TSE TeleService GmbH | Gsf: Arne Reuter | /// Hovestrasse 14 | Andreas Braukmann | We do it with /// D-48351 Everswinkel | HRB: 1430, AG WAF | FreeBSD/SMP /// ------------------------------------------------------------------- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 10:49:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA28429 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:49:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28402 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:49:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.1/nospam) with UUCP id TAA26652 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:49:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id TAA16153; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:21:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19971208192133.41658@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:21:33 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanted: mail-filter capable of the maildir-format References: <19971206184553.58471@paert.tse-online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Aled Treharne on Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 12:44:17PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3861 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii According to Aled Treharne: > procmail (v3.11pre7) supports the maildir format, so long as you have > your mail in maildir formats in the first place. Where did you get that idea ? My copy if 3.11pre7 supports only mbox and MH formats... > On this not, does anyone know of an easy way of changing normal (?) > mailboxes into maildir format? At the mo' I have to save the mail to a Here is a script of mine to do that. You'll need Perl5 and the Mailtools module (Mail::Internet). > Pine 3.95 supports maildir format too. :) Mutt supports it of course :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #18: Tue Nov 25 22:32:12 CET 1997 --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Description: Mbox -> Maildir mailbox converter Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=mbox2maildir #! /usr/local/bin/perl -w # # Takes a proper mbox file and turn it into a Maildir mailbox # suitable for Mutt # # Copyright © 1997 Ollivier Robert # Use freely as long as you don't pretend being the author. No warranty # whatsoever. # # Usage: mbox2maildir mbox maildir # # 1.1 17/3/97 roberto # 1.2 idem distinguish between old and new messages, smarter # count lines and output Lines: entry. # # $Id: mbox2maildir,v 1.3 1997/03/17 21:53:37 roberto Exp $ require 5.003; use strict; use vars qw($opt_h); ## -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ## Standard packages ## use FileHandle; use Sys::Hostname; use Getopt::Std qw(getopts); use File::Basename qw(basename); ## -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ## Found in Mail::Internet ## use Mail::Internet; use Mail::Util qw(read_mbox); my $argv0 = basename($0); my $version = sprintf("%d.%d", q$Revision: 1.3 $ =~ /(\d+)\.(\d+)/); ## -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ## Variables ## my $hostname = hostname; my $mess; my $total_msgs = 0; my %msg_count = ( new => 0, cur => 0, ); ## -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ## Show usage ## sub do_usage { print <<"EOTEXT"; $argv0: Mbox to Maildir conversion program Version $version by Ollivier Robert Usage: $argv0 [-h] Options: -h displays this message EOTEXT exit 0; } ## -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ## Beginning of program ## getopts ('h'); do_usage() if (defined $opt_h or $#ARGV != 1); my $mbox = shift; my $maildir = shift; print <<"EOTEXT"; $argv0: mbox to Maildir conversion program Version $version by Ollivier Robert EOTEXT die "File $mbox doesn't exist ! : $!\n" if not -f $mbox; die "Directory $maildir doesn't exist ! : $!\n" if not -d $maildir; if (not (-d "$maildir/cur" and -d "$maildir/tmp" and "$maildir/new")) { warn "Maildir folder without a proper structure, correcting...\n"; mkdir $maildir. "/cur", 0700; mkdir $maildir. "/tmp", 0700; mkdir $maildir. "/new", 0700; } my @msgs = read_mbox ($mbox); ## Keep machine name $hostname =~ s{(.*?)(\..*|)$}{$1}; die "Problem reading $mbox" if (not defined @msgs or $#msgs == -1); foreach $mess (@msgs) { my $status; ## Get the headers ## my $mail = new Mail::Internet $mess, MailFrom => 'IGNORE'; my @body = @{$mail->body}; my $lines = $#body; ## Get the Status: header. ## $status = $mail->get ("status"); $mail->replace ("lines", "Lines: $lines"); $mail->delete ("content-length"); ## Constructs the maildir filename ## my $when = time + $total_msgs; my $future_name = "$when.${$}_$total_msgs.$hostname"; my $fh_out = new FileHandle ">$maildir/tmp/$future_name"; die "Error writing $future_name: $!\n" if not defined $fh_out; ## Write the message ## eval { $mail->print ($fh_out) }; die "$@" if $@; ## Nothing wrong, move to /new or /cur (if Status: exists) ## eval { rename "$maildir/tmp/$future_name", "$maildir/" . ($status ? "cur" : "new") . "/$future_name"; }; die "$@" if $@; ## Cleanup ## $fh_out->close; ## Update the counters ## eval { $status ? $msg_count{'cur'}++ : $msg_count{'new'}++ }; $total_msgs++; } print <<"EOTEXT"; There were $msg_count{'new'} new message(s) $msg_count{'cur'} message(s) written in $maildir/new EOTEXT --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N-- From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 13:21:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12400 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:21:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12371 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:21:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@kalypso.cybercom.net) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA17199 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:20:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:20:28 -0500 (EST) From: The Classiest Man Alive To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Millenium II Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does anybody have a Matrox Millenium II running X Windows on FreeBSD? Any comments, pro or con, for this particular adapter? I may be in the market for a new adapter (Riva-128, Rendition 2200, or Millenium II w/Voodoo 2) to replace my existing Hercules Stringray 128/3D, but I'm not going anywhere without my X on FreeBSD. K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 13:35:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA15226 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:35:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.camb.opengroup.org (ren.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.3.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15133 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:34:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k@yt.to) Received: (qmail 22153 invoked by uid 12573); 7 Dec 1997 21:32:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19971207163209.00084@yt.to> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:32:09 -0500 From: Louis Theran To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wanted: mail-filter capable of the maildir-format References: <19971206184553.58471@paert.tse-online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Aled Treharne on Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 12:44:17PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 12:44:17PM +0000, Aled Treharne wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, A. Braukmann wrote: > > after having browsed through different information source regarding > > the ${subject} I have to ask here: > > Does anybody knows of a mail-filter that is able to deliver directly > > to 'maildir'-mailfolders? > > procmail (v3.11pre7) supports the maildir format, so long as you have > your mail in maildir formats in the first place. No it doesn't. There is a patch for Maildir support on http://www.qmail.org, though. If you don't want to recompile procmail, there are also several maildir delivery programs floating around that you can use from procmail. There are advantages and disadvantages to both of these approaches. > On this not, does anyone know of an easy way of changing normal (?) > mailboxes into maildir format? At the mo' I have to save the mail to a > temp folder, delete the old folder, create the new maildir directories > (cur,new,tmp..etc) and then save the mail to the new maildir folder. It's > a real pain, even with Pine's select (;) command. We would like to change > all of our users accross to maildir format, but it's just too much > hassle. I'm not sure that there is an easy way, although you could certainly write a script. Delivering new mail to Maildirs is fairly trivial, but for old mail you would have to look at the status lines added by the MUA in order to figure out what suffix to use on the files in Maildir/cur. See ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/www/proto/maildir.html for more information. > > 'maildir' is a newer mailfolder-format supported for example by > > qmail (MTA) and mutt (MUA). There's no reason why you couldn't use Maildir with sendmail, although I don't know anybody who is. ^L -- Louis Theran a.k.a. User K -- Carjacker on the Information Superhighway "Off the record. On the QT. And very Hush-Hush." From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 14:10:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18911 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:10:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18884 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:10:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsdchat@shadows.aeon.net) Received: (from bsdchat@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id XAA07553 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:38:10 +0200 (EET) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199712082138.XAA07553@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: news servers To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:38:10 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org somehow, i've managed to MISTYPE twice the address, if it doesnt appear right this time, i'm going to reattend school. :& just out of curiousity, and to back myself up in an argument, well, more like a sort of an argument, it's not a huge disagreement... anyone know what kind of hardware say top 20-30 usenet servers listed in http://www.freenix.fr/top1000 are using? i mean the latest, october stat. freebsd on _any_ of those? (if not, where's the first known one?) dont tell me first limux can be found above [free]bsd... [and why do i recall like someone on the freebsd lists would be maintaining, more or less, top servers...] mickey From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 14:31:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA21995 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:31:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thunderdome.plutotech.com (root@thunderdome.plutotech.com [206.168.67.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21981 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:31:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (ken@panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by thunderdome.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04878; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:30:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA24712; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:30:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712082230.PAA24712@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Millenium II In-Reply-To: from The Classiest Man Alive at "Dec 8, 97 04:20:28 pm" To: ksmm@cybercom.net (The Classiest Man Alive) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:30:52 -0700 (MST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Kenneth Merry X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The Classiest Man Alive wrote... > Does anybody have a Matrox Millenium II running X Windows on FreeBSD? Any > comments, pro or con, for this particular adapter? I may be in the market > for a new adapter (Riva-128, Rendition 2200, or Millenium II w/Voodoo 2) > to replace my existing Hercules Stringray 128/3D, but I'm not going > anywhere without my X on FreeBSD. I've got an 8MB Millennium II running with a patched version of Accelerated X 3.1. It works okay, but there are some screen artifacts, and sometimes various fonts don't look quite right. My guess is that Accelerated X 4.1 would be better, but I haven't tried it out yet. (I've got the CD, just haven't gotten around to installing it.) Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 15:13:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25862 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:13:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25813 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:12:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA10018 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:12:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga18-15.ix.netcom.com(204.32.174.207) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009752; Mon Dec 8 17:11:23 1997 Message-ID: <348C7EBB.4A468F61@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 18:11:55 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: news servers References: <199712082138.XAA07553@shadows.aeon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Their FreeBSD page is horribly out of date (2.1) Cheers, Jerry Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com mika ruohotie wrote: > > somehow, i've managed to MISTYPE twice the address, if it doesnt > appear right this time, i'm going to reattend school. :& > > just out of curiousity, and to back myself up in an argument, well, > more like a sort of an argument, it's not a huge disagreement... > anyone know what kind of hardware say top 20-30 usenet servers > listed in http://www.freenix.fr/top1000 are using? > > i mean the latest, october stat. > > freebsd on _any_ of those? (if not, where's the first known one?) > > dont tell me first limux can be found above [free]bsd... > > [and why do i recall like someone on the freebsd lists would > be maintaining, more or less, top servers...] > > mickey From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 15:20:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26919 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:20:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp4.portal.net.au [202.12.71.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26865 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:20:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18922; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:44:16 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712082314.JAA18922@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Millenium II In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:20:28 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 09:44:11 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Does anybody have a Matrox Millenium II running X Windows on FreeBSD? Any > comments, pro or con, for this particular adapter? I may be in the market > for a new adapter (Riva-128, Rendition 2200, or Millenium II w/Voodoo 2) > to replace my existing Hercules Stringray 128/3D, but I'm not going > anywhere without my X on FreeBSD. Yes, we've been using the 4M units a little while now. Using Accelerated X, they really scream. Certainly much faster than the S3-968 on the #9 Motion 771 I use daily. mike From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 17:55:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12649 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:55:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12638 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:54:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18144; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:54:50 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199712090154.XAA18144@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Black list for email To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:54:50 -0200 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I'd like to know how do people handle email "black lists". I intend to start my own, maybe using procmail, but I'd like to know how people usually do this. With details: procmail rules, scripts, procedures, etc. Thanks, Jonny PS: I think chat is the best place for this discussion, right ? :) -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 18:53:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17303 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:53:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user4975@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA17274 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:53:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 9 Dec 1997 02:59:14 -0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:59:14 -0700 (MST) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: Mark Mayo cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: X Conferencing: was [hackers:] Architectural advice needed In-Reply-To: <19971208204221.23659@vmunix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > One thing that would have really helped us out that I now see in the > win95/Mac netscape and mickeysoft conferencing tools is the > "blackboard" thing - you can scribble and write on a blackboard > that is shared by all members of the conference. I don't think this is > present in the Unix version of Netscape 4.0 though... Bummer. What? You don't like ASCII art?? :) > One thing is for certain, conferencing tools will almost certainly > represent a pretty big market in the years to come. Especially once we > start getting ADSL and cable modem rollouts so you can have an audio/video > link happening. The FreeBSD project, IMHO, is a shining example of what > can be accomplished through the Net, and the success is remarkable given > the relatively primitive tools used! > If it doesn't already exist, an X conferencing tool certainly seems like > a neat program "waiting to be created" by some spirited programmer > out there! :-) Well, X11 has a pretty big advantage over the rest, since the format is so standardized and networkable. Try setting a DISPLAY environment on NT. FreeBSD has all the tools: Bt948/QuickCam/etc drivers, vat/tel, X11, irc, etc. All it needs is an API and some compression (sxpc?). The only "feature" the commercial apps have is MMX compression, which does very well for audio/video compression. Is MMX under NDA only? I know such a package would be a big value-add to FreeBSD workstations. Kevin From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 19:35:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA20896 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:35:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pericles.aipo.gov.au (pericles.aipo.gov.au [202.14.186.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA20856 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:34:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Carl.Makin@aipo.gov.au) From: Carl.Makin@aipo.gov.au Received: (from smap@localhost) by pericles.aipo.gov.au (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA20332; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:33:46 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: pericles.aipo.gov.au: smap set sender to using -f Received: from notes.aipo.gov.au(192.3.1.11) by pericles.aipo.gov.au via smap (V1.3) id sma020325; Tue Dec 9 14:33:35 1997 Received: by notes.aipo.gov.au(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05b4 (287.3 12-16-1996)) id 4A256568.0018E7B3 ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:32:01 +1000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: INTERNET To: ksmm@cybercom.net, ken@plutotech.com cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <4A256568.0018E5B0.00@notes.aipo.gov.au> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:22:08 +1000 Subject: Re[2]: Millenium II Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Does anybody have a Matrox Millenium II running X Windows on > FreeBSD? Any comments, pro or con, for this particular adapter? I > may be in the market for a new adapter (Riva-128, Rendition 2200, or > Millenium II w/Voodoo 2) I'm running a 4Mb Millenium II under XFree86 3.3.1 and FreeBSD 2.2.5 with no problems. It's currently running at 1280x1024x16bit. I haven't tried 24bit yet as the last time I tried it (with an older millenium and xf86 3.2) it was broken. Carl. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 19:58:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA23207 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:58:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23193 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:58:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05407; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:58:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712090358.TAA05407@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Atipa cc: Mark Mayo , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X Conferencing: was [hackers:] Architectural advice needed In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Dec 1997 19:59:14 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 19:58:00 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We have all the technology except for H.323 as for conferencing implementation WinX is way behind and for that matter so far for PCs FreeBSD is the preferred platform for doing audio/video/text conferencing 8) Cheers, Amancio > > > > One thing that would have really helped us out that I now see in the > > win95/Mac netscape and mickeysoft conferencing tools is the > > "blackboard" thing - you can scribble and write on a blackboard > > that is shared by all members of the conference. I don't think this is > > present in the Unix version of Netscape 4.0 though... Bummer. > > What? You don't like ASCII art?? :) > > > One thing is for certain, conferencing tools will almost certainly > > represent a pretty big market in the years to come. Especially once we > > start getting ADSL and cable modem rollouts so you can have an audio/video > > link happening. The FreeBSD project, IMHO, is a shining example of what > > can be accomplished through the Net, and the success is remarkable given > > the relatively primitive tools used! > > > If it doesn't already exist, an X conferencing tool certainly seems like > > a neat program "waiting to be created" by some spirited programmer > > out there! :-) > > Well, X11 has a pretty big advantage over the rest, since the format is > so standardized and networkable. Try setting a DISPLAY environment on NT. > > FreeBSD has all the tools: Bt948/QuickCam/etc drivers, vat/tel, X11, irc, > etc. All it needs is an API and some compression (sxpc?). The only > "feature" the commercial apps have is MMX compression, which does very > well for audio/video compression. Is MMX under NDA only? > > I know such a package would be a big value-add to FreeBSD workstations. > > Kevin > From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 20:22:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA25008 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:22:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24994 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:22:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA08138; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:23:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971208232348.27935@vmunix.com> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:23:48 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Atipa , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X Conferencing: was [hackers:] Architectural advice needed References: <199712090358.TAA05407@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199712090358.TAA05407@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 07:58:00PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 07:58:00PM -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > We have all the technology except for H.323 as for conferencing > implementation WinX is way behind and for that matter so far > for PCs FreeBSD is the preferred platform for doing audio/video/text > conferencing 8) Neat! I had no idea we had such a wide range of tools available for cool stuff like this. So I'm assuming "whiteboard" is what I was refering to as a blackboard (scratch pad). Can more than two users share a common white-board? I'll have to look into this one since it's exactly what I've been longing for!! I was aware of the bt848 stuff for video capture/display. Is "vat" the video conferencing tool? Can it work on "normal" IP connections (i.e. non- multicast) ? Is "tel" a purely audio equivalent? Looks like as soon as exams are over I'll have some fun tools to explore/play with! Are there any sites out there outline the FreeBSD/Unix/X conferencing and chat tools? If not I think I'll compile a site with all the tools a typical user would need to get started. I'm excited! Finally, what exactly is H.323?? is it some sort of directory services standard, or what?? I'm pretty sure I remember that Netscape was using the H.323 stuff, but that Microsoft wasn't (although I do think they had an option related to it..). -Mark P.S. I think I'll have to start paying more attention to the -multimedia list 8-) > > Cheers, > Amancio > > > > > > > > > > One thing that would have really helped us out that I now see in the > > > win95/Mac netscape and mickeysoft conferencing tools is the > > > "blackboard" thing - you can scribble and write on a blackboard > > > that is shared by all members of the conference. I don't think this is > > > present in the Unix version of Netscape 4.0 though... Bummer. > > > > What? You don't like ASCII art?? :) > > > > > One thing is for certain, conferencing tools will almost certainly > > > represent a pretty big market in the years to come. Especially once we > > > start getting ADSL and cable modem rollouts so you can have an audio/video > > > link happening. The FreeBSD project, IMHO, is a shining example of what > > > can be accomplished through the Net, and the success is remarkable given > > > the relatively primitive tools used! > > > > > If it doesn't already exist, an X conferencing tool certainly seems like > > > a neat program "waiting to be created" by some spirited programmer > > > out there! :-) > > > > Well, X11 has a pretty big advantage over the rest, since the format is > > so standardized and networkable. Try setting a DISPLAY environment on NT. > > > > FreeBSD has all the tools: Bt948/QuickCam/etc drivers, vat/tel, X11, irc, > > etc. All it needs is an API and some compression (sxpc?). The only > > "feature" the commercial apps have is MMX compression, which does very > > well for audio/video compression. Is MMX under NDA only? > > > > I know such a package would be a big value-add to FreeBSD workstations. > > > > Kevin > > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 20:36:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA26078 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:36:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26072 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:36:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA08220; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:37:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971208233749.58568@vmunix.com> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:37:49 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [hackers:] Architectural advice needed References: <199712082204.OAA23754@implode.root.com> <348C78C4.6F5992E1@whistle.com> <19971208204221.23659@vmunix.com> <19971208194209.62841@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <19971208194209.62841@hydrogen.nike.efn.org>; from John-Mark Gurney on Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 07:42:09PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 07:42:09PM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Mark Mayo scribbled this message on Dec 8: > > One thing that would have really helped us out that I now see in the > > win95/Mac netscape and mickeysoft conferencing tools is the > > "blackboard" thing - you can scribble and write on a blackboard > > that is shared by all members of the conference. I don't think this is > > present in the Unix version of Netscape 4.0 though... Bummer. > > why not use sdr, whiteboard, and vat?? I've recieved quite good > resposne at home (over a 28.8k) from Luigi (in Europe) using GSM on > vat (I could hear him type :) )... but the other way was to overloaded > for me to chat with him... Hmm. I went searching for these and they're all in the /usr/ports/mbone directory.. I've never tried mbone stuff before, so I didn't know about them! :-) Am I getting this right? 1. vat - audio conferencing 2. vic - video conferencing 3. wb - the shared whiteboard thing (cool!) 4. sdr - a session thing, I'm assuming like a "directory" of user on the mbone 5. imm - send images and stuff mbone style Wow. That's everthing one could hope for! It would be neat to tie them all into one package/application (but that sort of defeats the Unix philosophy..). Stupid mbone question: Can anyone with a TCP/IP (i.e. PPP) connection "get on" the mbone?? I'm a bit confused as to what this mbone thing is exactly. I've seen big maps of "The Mbone", where the little red lines don't come anywhere near where I live.. :-) This multicast stuff seems quite neat. I'm going to do some research - right now it's just buzzword overload! If I can't be part of the multicast mbone, can I at least use the above tools "point to point"? Anyways, as i mentioned on another post, if no-one has already done it, I'm going to create a FreeBSD Conferencing Tools web page and give overviews of all the tools, technology, and so on so the whole thing isn't so overwhelming for new users :-) -Mark P.S. Damn it's hard to concentrate on exams now.. it's like I've walked into a whole new world!!! > > I'm looking at moving into the university dorms, and once I do, then > I can have all the fun of multicast... > > > One thing is for certain, conferencing tools will almost certainly > > represent a pretty big market in the years to come. Especially once we > > start getting ADSL and cable modem rollouts so you can have an audio/video > > link happening. The FreeBSD project, IMHO, is a shining example of what > > can be accomplished through the Net, and the success is remarkable given > > the relatively primitive tools used! > > yep... once the higher speed connections come out.. then we can use > the Bt848 and a camera for video conferencing.. :) > > > If it doesn't already exist, an X conferencing tool certainly seems like > > a neat program "waiting to be created" by some spirited programmer > > out there! :-) > > yep, they all pretty much exist... the ones that don't exist are the > ones that don't require X... :( > > -- > John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 > Cu Networking > > Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 20:45:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA26528 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:45:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26509 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:45:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA13450; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:25:44 -0800 (PST) To: Atipa cc: Mark Mayo , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X Conferencing: was [hackers:] Architectural advice needed In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Dec 1997 19:59:14 MST." Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 20:25:44 -0800 Message-ID: <13445.881641544@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > FreeBSD has all the tools: Bt948/QuickCam/etc drivers, vat/tel, X11, irc, > etc. All it needs is an API and some compression (sxpc?). The only > "feature" the commercial apps have is MMX compression, which does very > well for audio/video compression. Is MMX under NDA only? Actually, the whole system of network chat rooms, shared whiteboards, video conferencing, etc, is already well available using the MBONE tools, now if only most of us could get *on* the MBONE anymore. :( CRL, the ISP for Walnut Creek CDROM (and hence me), doesn't pass MBONE traffic anymore and this situation is mirrored for many other folks I know of. I also had access to SGI's "InPerson" teleconferencing software, to port to FreeBSD and distribute freely (in binary form), but I never had time to do anything with this and the deal sort of died on the vine. "Oh well." :( Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 21:27:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA29440 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:27:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA29402 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:26:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16540; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:57:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971208205744.17066@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:57:44 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Mark Mayo Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [hackers:] Architectural advice needed References: <199712082204.OAA23754@implode.root.com> <348C78C4.6F5992E1@whistle.com> <19971208204221.23659@vmunix.com> <19971208194209.62841@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <19971208233749.58568@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19971208233749.58568@vmunix.com>; from Mark Mayo on Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 11:37:49PM -0500 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Mayo scribbled this message on Dec 8: > On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 07:42:09PM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > Mark Mayo scribbled this message on Dec 8: > > > One thing that would have really helped us out that I now see in the > > > win95/Mac netscape and mickeysoft conferencing tools is the > > > "blackboard" thing - you can scribble and write on a blackboard > > > that is shared by all members of the conference. I don't think this is > > > present in the Unix version of Netscape 4.0 though... Bummer. > > > > why not use sdr, whiteboard, and vat?? I've recieved quite good > > resposne at home (over a 28.8k) from Luigi (in Europe) using GSM on > > vat (I could hear him type :) )... but the other way was to overloaded > > for me to chat with him... > > Hmm. I went searching for these and they're all in the /usr/ports/mbone > directory.. I've never tried mbone stuff before, so I didn't know > about them! :-) > > Am I getting this right? > > 1. vat - audio conferencing > 2. vic - video conferencing > 3. wb - the shared whiteboard thing (cool!) > 4. sdr - a session thing, I'm assuming like a "directory" of user on > the mbone > 5. imm - send images and stuff mbone style pretty much yes... the sdr is actually more of a schedule of when things will be happening... this is to announce when something like the FreeBSD lounge will meet... and for reservering a multicast address for use... I'm not that familar.. as I haven't gotten mbone to my home network (haven't gotten mrouted to do it's job :( )... > Wow. That's everthing one could hope for! It would be neat to tie > them all into one package/application (but that sort of defeats > the Unix philosophy..). actually, if you think about it... it's MUCH better to keep 'em seperate... when you start using 'em, you'll see what I mean... > Stupid mbone question: Can anyone with a TCP/IP (i.e. PPP) connection > "get on" the mbone?? I'm a bit confused as to what this mbone thing > is exactly. I've seen big maps of "The Mbone", where the little red > lines don't come anywhere near where I live.. :-) basicly, you will need to talk to your isp, or who ever you get your internet service from... if they don't know what your talking about, you can get a feed from someone else... this will require you to set up mrouted to do the tunneling/routing necessary... > This multicast stuff seems quite neat. I'm going to do some research - right > now it's just buzzword overload! > > If I can't be part of the multicast mbone, can I at least use the above > tools "point to point"? I know that you can use vat point to point... I haven't personally use the others point to point... > Anyways, as i mentioned on another post, if no-one has already done it, > I'm going to create a FreeBSD Conferencing Tools web page and give > overviews of all the tools, technology, and so on so the whole thing > isn't so overwhelming for new users :-) I don't know of any... > P.S. Damn it's hard to concentrate on exams now.. it's like I've walked > into a whole new world!!! :) yeh... I just finished my first of two today... :) > > I'm looking at moving into the university dorms, and once I do, then > > I can have all the fun of multicast... > > > > > One thing is for certain, conferencing tools will almost certainly > > > represent a pretty big market in the years to come. Especially once we > > > start getting ADSL and cable modem rollouts so you can have an audio/video > > > link happening. The FreeBSD project, IMHO, is a shining example of what > > > can be accomplished through the Net, and the success is remarkable given > > > the relatively primitive tools used! > > > > yep... once the higher speed connections come out.. then we can use > > the Bt848 and a camera for video conferencing.. :) > > > > > If it doesn't already exist, an X conferencing tool certainly seems like > > > a neat program "waiting to be created" by some spirited programmer > > > out there! :-) > > > > yep, they all pretty much exist... the ones that don't exist are the > > ones that don't require X... :( -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 21:34:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00213 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:34:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00182 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:34:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10094; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:34:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712090534.VAA10094@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Atipa , Mark Mayo , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X Conferencing: was [hackers:] Architectural advice needed In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Dec 1997 20:25:44 PST." <13445.881641544@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 21:34:08 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I also had access to SGI's "InPerson" teleconferencing software, to > port to FreeBSD and distribute freely (in binary form), but I never > had time to do anything with this and the deal sort of died on the > vine. > That one is easy -- just post on the multimedia mailing list . We have a couple of experienced programmers which can tackle the job . Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 21:36:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00468 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:36:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00342 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:35:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA24766; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:34:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:34:56 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: mika ruohotie cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: news servers In-Reply-To: <199712082138.XAA07553@shadows.aeon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm not positive, but I believe sol.net is FreeBSD based... Rank weight name ============================ 1 28.59 cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com 2 26.48 newsfeed.internetmci.com 3 20.45 news.maxwell.syr.edu 4 16.20 howland.erols.net 5 15.24 news-peer.sprintlink.net 6 14.82 cyberspam 7 13.29 sol.net 8 13.27 newsfeeds.sol.net 9 12.02 adiron 10 11.99 nocemed 11 11.48 newspeer.sol.net 12 9.24 newsfeed.direct.ca Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com ---- "I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man Just a mortal with potential of a superman I'm living on" -DB On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, mika ruohotie wrote: > somehow, i've managed to MISTYPE twice the address, if it doesnt > appear right this time, i'm going to reattend school. :& > > > > just out of curiousity, and to back myself up in an argument, well, > more like a sort of an argument, it's not a huge disagreement... > anyone know what kind of hardware say top 20-30 usenet servers > listed in http://www.freenix.fr/top1000 are using? > > i mean the latest, october stat. > > freebsd on _any_ of those? (if not, where's the first known one?) > > dont tell me first limux can be found above [free]bsd... > > [and why do i recall like someone on the freebsd lists would > be maintaining, more or less, top servers...] > > > mickey > From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 22:10:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03147 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:10:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03111; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:10:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA17334; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:10:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:10:30 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Desktop Pics Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi..sorry to the multimedia guys, if they mind. I got bored. >>:-> Anyone need to spice up their desktop or Xlogin window? http://resnet.uoregon.edu/dwhite/fbsd-desktops.html Submissions/better ones would be cool. A Xlogin window of the day would be pretty neat ;-) Use something like this to select it... xv -root -quit `ls ~dwhite/desktops | random | head -1` Slap into /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 and off you go. Or run from /etc/daily.... PICTURE = `ls ~dwhite/desktops | random | head -1` rm /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/set_login.sh echo "#!/bin/sh" > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/set_login.sh echo "xv -root -quit $PICTURE" >> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/set_login.sh #Xsetup_0 ./set_login.sh xconsole ..... Oh wow, time for some caffiene :-) Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 23:46:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA09890 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:46:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09879 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:46:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA14291; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:46:34 -0800 (PST) To: Mark Mayo cc: John-Mark Gurney , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [hackers:] Architectural advice needed In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Dec 1997 23:37:49 EST." <19971208233749.58568@vmunix.com> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 23:46:34 -0800 Message-ID: <14288.881653594@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Am I getting this right? > > 1. vat - audio conferencing > 2. vic - video conferencing > 3. wb - the shared whiteboard thing (cool!) > 4. sdr - a session thing, I'm assuming like a "directory" of user on > the mbone > 5. imm - send images and stuff mbone style Pretty close except for 4, which is more like a directory of *sessions* on the mbone, sort of the IRC equivalent of channels except that each session can have more than one kind of data being simulcast - some might be just audio, others audio/video or a/v/w, etc. > Stupid mbone question: Can anyone with a TCP/IP (i.e. PPP) connection > "get on" the mbone?? I'm a bit confused as to what this mbone thing Nope. It's more like a "network within a network", and in order to get on it you have to know someone who's already a member and is willing to feed you data. It's sort of like USENET news that way, except that it's a lot easier to find someone who's willing to feed you news. :-) > If I can't be part of the multicast mbone, can I at least use the above > tools "point to point"? Not to my knowledge, no. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 23:49:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA10052 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:49:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10044 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:49:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA14307; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:48:51 -0800 (PST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: Atipa , Mark Mayo , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X Conferencing: was [hackers:] Architectural advice needed In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Dec 1997 21:34:08 PST." <199712090534.VAA10094@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 23:48:51 -0800 Message-ID: <14303.881653731@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I also had access to SGI's "InPerson" teleconferencing software, to > > port to FreeBSD and distribute freely (in binary form), but I never > > had time to do anything with this and the deal sort of died on the > > vine. > > > > That one is easy -- just post on the multimedia mailing list . > We have a couple of experienced programmers which can tackle > the job . Unfortunately, the source code agreement restricted access to me and me alone or I'd have handed it off in precisely this manner long ago. :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 8 23:57:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA10738 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:57:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10718 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:57:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA10800; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:56:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712090756.XAA10800@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Atipa , Mark Mayo , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X Conferencing: was [hackers:] Architectural advice needed In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Dec 1997 23:48:51 PST." <14303.881653731@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 23:56:43 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just give me your contact and I will try Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 9 01:51:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA18723 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:51:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [193.117.77.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA18675 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:50:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08263; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:46:22 GMT Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA05784; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:51:32 GMT Message-ID: <19971209095131.25825@iii.co.uk> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:51:31 +0000 To: The Classiest Man Alive Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Millenium II References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from The Classiest Man Alive on Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 04:20:28PM -0500 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 04:20:28PM -0500, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > Does anybody have a Matrox Millenium II running X Windows on FreeBSD? I run a 4MB Millenium II under XFree86 3.3.1. The driver is a little buggy, resulting in some screen artifacts on the right hand side, but I can live with those for the moment. I am eagerly awaiting XFree86 4 however. . . N -- --+==[ Nik Clayton is Just Another Perl Hacker at Interactive Investor ]==+-- It is easier to seek forgiveness than permission From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 9 03:31:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA24783 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 03:31:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA24776 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 03:31:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23181; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:30:45 GMT Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:31:29 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: Doug White cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Desktop Pics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Doug White wrote: > Anyone need to spice up their desktop or Xlogin window? > > http://resnet.uoregon.edu/dwhite/fbsd-desktops.html > > Submissions/better ones would be cool. A Xlogin window of the day would > be pretty neat ;-) Are there any programs to make the demon walk about the Xlogin screen ? If not I'll write one as that would be a sick evil thing to do, and easy. Steve. -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 9 05:34:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA01535 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 05:34:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA01528 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 05:34:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199712091330.IAA06681@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:35:53 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Mark Mayo cc: John-Mark Gurney , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [hackers:] Architectural advice needed In-Reply-To: <19971208233749.58568@vmunix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Mark Mayo wrote: > Stupid mbone question: Can anyone with a TCP/IP (i.e. PPP) connection > "get on" the mbone?? I'm a bit confused as to what this mbone thing > is exactly. I've seen big maps of "The Mbone", where the little red > lines don't come anywhere near where I live.. :-) > This multicast stuff seems quite neat. I'm going to do some research - right > now it's just buzzword overload! > > If I can't be part of the multicast mbone, can I at least use the above > tools "point to point"? > > Anyways, as i mentioned on another post, if no-one has already done it, > I'm going to create a FreeBSD Conferencing Tools web page and give > overviews of all the tools, technology, and so on so the whole thing > isn't so overwhelming for new users :-) > > -Mark > > P.S. Damn it's hard to concentrate on exams now.. it's like I've walked > into a whole new world!!! Using mrouted, you can setup your own mbone between two or more netsites. All the mbone is is sites agreeing to peer with each other's multicast traffic. Cool stuff. The next question of course is, who's got an mbone connection they are willing to feed from (MCI gives all its customers who request it, mbone access)? I miss my mbone connection :( -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 9 07:00:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA07676 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 07:00:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA07642 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 07:00:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atf3r@cs.virginia.edu) Received: from ares.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa29447; 9 Dec 97 9:56 EST Received: from mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (mamba-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.18]) by ares.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19517; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:56:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (atf3r@localhost) by mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11374; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:56:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU: atf3r owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:56:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Stephen Roome cc: Doug White , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Desktop Pics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Stephen Roome wrote: > On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Doug White wrote: > > Anyone need to spice up their desktop or Xlogin window? > > > > http://resnet.uoregon.edu/dwhite/fbsd-desktops.html > > > > Submissions/better ones would be cool. A Xlogin window of the day would > > be pretty neat ;-) > > Are there any programs to make the demon walk about the Xlogin screen ? If > not I'll write one as that would be a sick evil thing to do, and easy. Ummm sorta. What if the daemon held a heated discussion with an animated paper clip, which concludes with a session of metal origami. Hmmm... Do I hear "wonder-clip powers activate! Shape of a 'BSD'!"? ;-) Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualzation Lab -->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 9 07:07:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA08180 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 07:07:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from skraldespand.demos.su (skraldespand.demos.su [194.87.5.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA08176 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 07:07:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mishania@skraldespand.demos.su) Received: (from mishania@localhost) by skraldespand.demos.su (8.8.8/D) id SAA17503; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:05:09 +0300 (MSK) Posted-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:05:09 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: <19971209180508.34464@demos.su> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:05:08 +0300 From: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" To: mika ruohotie Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: news servers References: <199712082138.XAA07553@shadows.aeon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <199712082138.XAA07553@shadows.aeon.net>; from mika ruohotie on Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 11:38:10PM +0200 Organization: Demos Company, Ltd., Moscow, Russian Federation. X-Point-of-View: Gravity is myth, - the earth sucks. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 11:38:10PM +0200, mika ruohotie wrote: # just out of curiousity, and to back myself up in an argument, well, # more like a sort of an argument, it's not a huge disagreement... # anyone know what kind of hardware say top 20-30 usenet servers # listed in http://www.freenix.fr/top1000 are using? Don't exactly recall if it's 60 or some 6x place, ddt.demos.su newsserver is FreeBSD. Gamma.RU also use FreeBSD, however, I am not sure if their news is one. (4x's place). # i mean the latest, october stat. The latest is november. # freebsd on _any_ of those? (if not, where's the first known one?) # dont tell me first limux can be found above [free]bsd... # [and why do i recall like someone on the freebsd lists would # be maintaining, more or less, top servers...] # mickey -- -mishania From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 9 09:32:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17926 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:32:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17897 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:32:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.1/nospam) with UUCP id SAA14038 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:32:14 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id IAA00522; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:28:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19971209082823.43006@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:28:23 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: news servers References: <199712082138.XAA07553@shadows.aeon.net> <348C7EBB.4A468F61@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <348C7EBB.4A468F61@ix.netcom.com>; from Jerry Hicks on Mon, Dec 08, 1997 at 06:11:55PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3880 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Jerry Hicks: > Their FreeBSD page is horribly out of date (2.1) I know, I know. We'll have to do something about that. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #18: Tue Nov 25 22:32:12 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 9 09:33:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17960 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:33:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17921 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:32:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.1/nospam) with UUCP id SAA14041 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:32:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id IAA00531; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:29:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19971209082948.41475@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:29:48 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: news servers References: <199712082138.XAA07553@shadows.aeon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from spork on Tue, Dec 09, 1997 at 12:34:56AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3880 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to spork: > I'm not positive, but I believe sol.net is FreeBSD based... SOL.NET is Joe Greco's domain and all his machines are indeed FreeBSD. He's using Cyclone and Diablo. Erols is a Linux I think. > Rank weight name > ============================ > 1 28.59 cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com > 2 26.48 newsfeed.internetmci.com > 3 20.45 news.maxwell.syr.edu > 4 16.20 howland.erols.net > 5 15.24 news-peer.sprintlink.net > 6 14.82 cyberspam > 7 13.29 sol.net > 8 13.27 newsfeeds.sol.net > 9 12.02 adiron > 10 11.99 nocemed > 11 11.48 newspeer.sol.net -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #18: Tue Nov 25 22:32:12 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 9 13:46:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08895 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:46:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08879 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:45:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id QAA09678 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:45:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:45:55 -0500 (EST) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: StarOffice for OpenLinx does it run? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The staroffice port runs fine, but it doesnt support some of the newer features. Has anyone been sucessfull in running the latest version of staroffice for open linux on -current? -- ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.5 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 9 14:19:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11604 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:19:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from charon.pha.jhu.edu ([128.220.226.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11594 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:19:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josephm@charon.pha.jhu.edu) Received: from ceres.pha.jhu.edu (ceres [128.220.226.25]) by charon.pha.jhu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04586 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:18:33 GMT Received: from localhost (josephm@localhost) by ceres.pha.jhu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA03519 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:18:32 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: ceres.pha.jhu.edu: josephm owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:18:32 -0500 (EST) From: Joseph Moran X-Sender: josephm@ceres To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: the old bsd games (/usr/games) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lately I've been bored at work, and I've tried installing the old BSD games from source. I'm running 2.2.5-RELEASE and just pulled down the 2.2.5 /usr/games source, compiled and installed. The "sail" game in particular struck my interest, but it doesn't seem to run under 2.2.5. Now of course this is pretty old code; the game is supposed to fork off a driver which then communicates to the player's program by writing to a file in /tmp. :) After some hunting through the source I think the problem is somewhere in sync.c -- it just doesn't create the tmp file, and the stat() call fails, which kills the driver. So, does anyone still play with this code? When was the last time "sail" actually worked on a FreeBSD system? I'd be surprised if I actually get a response, but what the hell, I'm just passing some time between projects. :) I was thinking I might port it to my minix box at home, but if it's dead under FreeBSD, is it worth the effort.... jm From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 9 15:52:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA19111 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:52:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu (x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu [134.84.115.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19079 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:51:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu) Received: (from chris@localhost) by x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu (8.8.5/8.6.9) id RAA06088; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:53:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:53:29 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712092353.RAA06088@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu> From: "Christopher L. Mikkelson" To: Joseph Moran CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Joseph Moran's message of Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:18:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: the old bsd games (/usr/games) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article Joseph Moran writes: So, does anyone still play with this code? When was the last time "sail" actually worked on a FreeBSD system? I'd be surprised if I actually get a response, but what the hell, I'm just passing some time between projects. :) I was thinking I might port it to my minix box at home, but if it's dead under FreeBSD, is it worth the effort.... It seems to run on my 2.2.2 system.... -Chris From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 04:09:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA09034 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:09:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA09030 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:09:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15555; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:09:06 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id NAA04467; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:08:37 +0100 (MET) To: "Christopher L. Mikkelson" Cc: Joseph Moran , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: the old bsd games (/usr/games) References: <199712092353.RAA06088@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu> From: Eivind Eklund Date: 10 Dec 1997 13:08:35 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Christopher L. Mikkelson"'s message of Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:53:29 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <864t4hxuws.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Lines: 36 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.52/XEmacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Christopher L. Mikkelson" writes: > In article Joseph Moran writes: > So, does anyone still play with this code? When was the last time > "sail" actually worked on a FreeBSD system? I'd be surprised if I > actually get a response, but what the hell, I'm just passing some time > between projects. :) I was thinking I might port it to my minix box at > home, but if it's dead under FreeBSD, is it worth the effort.... > > It seems to run on my 2.2.2 system.... The only change that I can find that might be of any significance is my change to Makefile.inc that went from 1.4 to 1.4.6.1. The relevant diff is below. Everything else are just cleanup-changes, nothing that should have even a remote chance of making a difference. Index: Makefile.inc =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/games/Makefile.inc,v retrieving revision 1.4 retrieving revision 1.4.6.1 diff -u -r1.4 -r1.4.6.1 --- Makefile.inc 1994/11/20 01:53:09 1.4 +++ Makefile.inc 1997/09/16 00:36:38 1.4.6.1 @@ -1,9 +1,9 @@ # @(#)Makefile.inc 8.1 (Berkeley) 5/31/93 -BINOWN= games .if defined(HIDEGAME) +BINOWN= games BINDIR= /usr/games/hide -BINMODE= 4700 +BINMODE= 4500 .else BINDIR= /usr/games .endif From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 10:27:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05332 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:27:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA05318 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:27:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199712101822.NAA13096@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:27:39 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Redirected to chat. On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > > > Why is it that every time somebody suggests making a script or GUI utility > to automate some boring but necessary UNIX process, all you guys who went > to school with Dennis Richie pop out and start complaining about how the > GUI is the greatest affront to computer science since the invention of the > transistor? Nobody's going to be any worse off if we *add* some new ways > to do things. I sincerely think that some of you are actually opposed to > the proliferation of FreeBSD to people who don't think Emacs is the > greatest app ever written. > > I swear, you all are going to drive me to learn C. > > > > Whew, that felt good. :-) > > K.S. > I did not go to school with Dennis Ritchie, and I have never met him. I have no opposition to gui'fying things. I do have an objection to the linux method of building kernels. And emacs isn't the greatest program ever written, that would be vi. :P -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 11:34:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA10715 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:34:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from u3.farm.idt.net (root@u3.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10670 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:34:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garycorc@idt.net) Received: from idt.net (ppp-56.ts-1.mlb.idt.net [169.132.71.56]) by u3.farm.idt.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13064; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:34:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <348EEE76.9E2D9D34@idt.net> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:33:10 -0500 From: "Gary T. Corcoran" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jamie Bowden CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? References: <199712101822.NAA13096@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jamie Bowden wrote: > > And emacs isn't the greatest > program ever written, that would be vi. :P Now you've done it - you let the secret out... ;-} Gary (a graduate of Berkeley) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 12:26:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15540 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:26:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15528 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:26:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA22554 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:26:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga7-19.ix.netcom.com(199.183.210.51) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022531; Wed Dec 10 14:25:43 1997 Message-ID: <348EFB00.86391B42@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:26:40 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? References: <199712101822.NAA13096@gatekeeper.itribe.net> <348EEE76.9E2D9D34@idt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gary T. Corcoran wrote: > > Jamie Bowden wrote: > > > > And emacs isn't the greatest > > program ever written, that would be vi. :P > > Now you've done it - you let the secret out... ;-} > > Gary > (a graduate of Berkeley) Nope, you're both wrong. ed From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 12:28:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15673 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:28:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from didda.est.is (ppp-21.est.is [194.144.208.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15653 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:28:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from totii@est.is) Received: from est.is (didda.est.is [192.168.255.1]) by didda.est.is (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00591 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:27:46 GMT (envelope-from totii@est.is) Message-ID: <348EFB42.54D46A87@est.is> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:27:46 +0000 From: "Þorður Ivarsson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: New era of spam ?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Now when everybody (mostly) have taken som actions to stop spamming on the net someone finds realy nasty way to "contact" people. Mailing lists are all closing and more difficult to force mail to few addresses to get to the masses. I received this today and I am not very happy, I have been getting something like this last days directly to my primary mail address that is only used for private mailing. From: To: Subject: Publicity agents are your friends. X-UIDL: a0a3aeb8941e9db80d8e2c74e0cd629b Hoping you'll have a superly-NICE nite, a FUN day tomorrow, and the most excellent TIMES forever more. -------------------------------------- This message was brought to you by MarketCom's MktAgent, the interNet's premier webwalking publicity engine. Locate over 100,000 Email penpals in only 5 days with our FREE demo model. http://209.54.41.90/MktAgent/ -------------------------------------- Is the only way to get rid of the "unwanted mail" to block all traffic and pass only for several well choosen addresses or what. -- Þórður Ívarsson Thordur Ivarsson Rafeindavirki Electronic technician Norðurgötu 30 Nordurgotu 30 Box 309 Box 309 602 Akureyri 602 Akureyri Ísland Iceland --------------------------------------------- FreeBSD has good features, Some others are full of unwanted features! --------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 13:14:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA19591 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA19510 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:14:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00755; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:13:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from henrich) Message-ID: <19971210161322.50378@crh.cl.msu.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:13:22 -0500 From: Charles Henrich To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Yahoo Compromise Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org So does anyone out there know how the folks managed to compromise Yahoo's systems? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 14:30:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25707 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:30:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25688 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:30:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03499; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:29:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Received: from localhost (ejs@localhost) by harlie.bfd.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA15720; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:29:50 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: harlie.bfd.com: ejs owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:29:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=DEor=F0ur_Ivarsson?= cc: "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: New era of spam ?? In-Reply-To: <348EFB42.54D46A87@est.is> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA25689 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Þorður Ivarsson wrote: > I received this today and I am not very happy, I have been getting > something like this last days directly to my primary mail address that > is only used for private mailing. > > From: > To: > Subject: Publicity agents are your friends. > X-UIDL: a0a3aeb8941e9db80d8e2c74e0cd629b I've been using procmail and junk.filter to dump spam into a seperate folder, leaving the rest of it in my inbox. I've got it tuned to the point that out of 5800 saved messages I ran through it, it correctly identified all 208 spam messages, and only identified 8 of the non-spam as spam. In fact, I almost welcome an email getting through the filter, so I can tune the filter even better. So far, there are two people on the freebsd lists that use usa.net or aol.com addresses that aren't sending email from those services, so the program cans them, but to me that's acceptible, since much of the spam is forged hotmail.com/juno.com/usa.net/aol.com and my filters are pretty good at catching that stuff. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 15:09:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA00165 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:09:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA00150; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:09:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199712102309.PAA00150@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: New era of spam ?? To: totii@est.is (Þorður Ivarsson) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:09:12 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <348EFB42.54D46A87@est.is> from "Þorður Ivarsson" at Dec 10, 97 08:27:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org if you send me full headers, i can take a look. we are blocking most spam, we got hit recently, twice! but i dont think they will get thru again. jmb Þorður Ivarsson wrote: > > Now when everybody (mostly) have taken som actions to stop spamming on > the net someone finds realy nasty way to "contact" people. Mailing lists > are all closing and more difficult to force mail to few addresses to get > to the masses. > > I received this today and I am not very happy, I have been getting > something like this last days directly to my primary mail address that > is only used for private mailing. > > From: > To: > Subject: Publicity agents are your friends. > X-UIDL: a0a3aeb8941e9db80d8e2c74e0cd629b > From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 15:26:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA02333 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:26:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02305 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:26:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kelly@fsl.noaa.gov) Received: from cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.101]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00624; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:26:04 GMT Received: from fsl.noaa.gov (auk.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.124]) by cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17090; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:26:03 GMT Message-ID: <348F2509.1E384CBD@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:26:02 -0700 From: Sean Kelly Organization: CIRA/NOAA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/725) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Henrich CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yahoo Compromise References: <19971210161322.50378@crh.cl.msu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > So does anyone out there know how the folks managed to compromise Yahoo's > systems? Huh? What happened? URL? --Sean From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 15:29:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA02736 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:29:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02630 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:29:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00773; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:26:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199712102326.SAA00773@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? In-Reply-To: <348EFB00.86391B42@ix.netcom.com> from Jerry Hicks at "Dec 10, 97 03:26:40 pm" To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:26:29 -0500 (EST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jerry Hicks said: > Gary T. Corcoran wrote: > > > > Jamie Bowden wrote: > > > > > > And emacs isn't the greatest > > > program ever written, that would be vi. :P > > > > Now you've done it - you let the secret out... ;-} > > > > Gary > > (a graduate of Berkeley) > > Nope, you're both wrong. > Yep, use "echo", and get it right the first time. :-). -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 17:36:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15404 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:36:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA15390 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:36:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from softweyr@xmission.com) Received: from obie [199.104.124.49] by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xfx9z-0006D3-00; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:11:27 -0700 Message-ID: <348F3F64.167EB0E7@xmission.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:18:28 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why so many steps to build new kernel? References: <199712101822.NAA13096@gatekeeper.itribe.net> <348EEE76.9E2D9D34@idt.net> <348EFB00.86391B42@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jerry Hicks wrote: > > Gary T. Corcoran wrote: > > > > Jamie Bowden wrote: > > > > > > And emacs isn't the greatest > > > program ever written, that would be vi. :P > > > > Now you've done it - you let the secret out... ;-} > > > > Gary > > (a graduate of Berkeley) > > Nope, you're both wrong. > > ed Nope, you're *all* wrong. /kernel ;^) And, to the original poster, the reason so many here react so violently to stupid exercises like slapping a GUI on top of building a kernel is that it adds no value whatsoever. Pick a more meaningful task, one that is exercised more often, and has a more "GUI" nature, ask people about that, and you'll (usually) get a "better" answer. GUIs lend themselves *only* to tasks that are done quite often and that are highly interactive in nature. If you don't believe me, look at the GUI for nearly any backup product that has one; they all suck. Backups are not an interactive process and slapping a GUI on top of them doesn't add much, if anything, to the user's ability to do it. I feel that kernel building falls square into this category also. If you feel differently, feel free to build a graphical kernel-configuring tool, give it to the FreeBSD project, and convince me otherwise. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 18:19:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18870 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:19:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from foo.bar.com (F181-068.net.wisc.edu [144.92.181.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18840 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:19:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jesse@foo.bar.com) Received: from localhost (jesse@localhost) by foo.bar.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA00319 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:22:07 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:22:07 -0600 (CST) From: "jtkipp@students.wisc.edu" Reply-To: zaphod@imailbox.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yahoo Compromise (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oops, I accidentally sent this to questions... sorry... DOH! ------------ "I'm a fighter-MAGE-thief, I can do anything: I'll just never get any better at it." Jesse Friend refering to his Dungeons and Dragons Character Jesse Kipp, zaphod@imailbox.com, jtkipp@students.wisc.edu ------------ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:20:40 -0600 (CST) From: "jtkipp@students.wisc.edu" Reply-To: zaphod@imailbox.com To: question@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Yahoo Compromise A group of hackers has claimed that they planted something "bad" on yahoo, and unless another certain hacker is released from prison, they will let this "bad" thing wreck computers across the internet. I'm frankly confused at to how this could be done... I don't know (or even claim to know) much about HTTP and HTML, but I just don't see how some "dangerous" code can be remotely executed on a stand-alone (or dial-up) computer that is set to read just HTML 3.0 (like mine, no java, no sound, no cookies, no insecure transfers). I think it is a hoax. On my windoz e-mail address I get wired-inbox-direct, and there was a link to it from there I think, I wasn't able to find it visiting the site though. If people would like me to find the article out of cache/trash e-mail me personally and I'll see if it's still around... Sanity in Jepordy again, Jesse Kipp Zaphod@imailbox.com On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Sean Kelly wrote: > > So does anyone out there know how the folks managed to compromise Yahoo's > > systems? > > Huh? What happened? URL? > > --Sean > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 19:52:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27184 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:52:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thunderdome.plutotech.com (root@thunderdome.plutotech.com [206.168.67.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27172 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:52:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (ken@panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by thunderdome.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA08302; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:52:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA00761; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:51:59 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712110351.UAA00761@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Yahoo Compromise In-Reply-To: <348F2509.1E384CBD@fsl.noaa.gov> from Sean Kelly at "Dec 10, 97 04:26:02 pm" To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:51:58 -0700 (MST) Cc: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Kenneth Merry X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sean Kelly wrote... > > So does anyone out there know how the folks managed to compromise Yahoo's > > systems? > > Huh? What happened? URL? Here's the URL: http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/971210/tech/stories/yahoo_2.html Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 20:31:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00302 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:31:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from foo.bar.com ([144.92.209.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00281 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:31:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jesse@foo.bar.com) Received: from localhost (jesse@localhost) by foo.bar.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA00214 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:33:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:31:55 -0600 (CST) From: "jtkipp@students.wisc.edu" Reply-To: zaphod@imailbox.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Monitors... any recommendations? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I might have the chance soon to get some new hardware (YEA!!), and it might include a new (or new-used) Monitor. Anybody have any advice about specific products that are good/that should be avoided? (I'll almost certainly be looking at 15-17 inch models...) Or products that work well/not at all with freebsd? How about monitors with tv-like controls (i.e. digital/on screeen) for color, contrast, brightness, etc. Has anybody had any experiance/problems with those? thanks, ------------ "I'm a fighter-MAGE-thief, I can do anything: I'll just never get any better at it." Jesse Friend refering to his Dungeons and Dragons Character Jesse Kipp, zaphod@imailbox.com, jtkipp@students.wisc.edu ------------ From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 21:05:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02447 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:05:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (dynamic58.pm05.san-mateo.best.com [205.149.176.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02429 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:04:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA20461; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:04:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971210210436.16247@mooseriver.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:04:36 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: zaphod@imailbox.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Monitors... any recommendations? Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: ; from jtkipp@students.wisc.edu on Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 10:31:55AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 10:31:55AM -0600, jtkipp@students.wisc.edu wrote: > I might have the chance soon to get some new hardware (YEA!!), and it > might include a new (or new-used) Monitor. Anybody have any advice about > specific products that are good/that should be avoided? (I'll almost > certainly be looking at 15-17 inch models...) Or products that work > well/not at all with freebsd? How about monitors with tv-like controls > (i.e. digital/on screeen) for color, contrast, brightness, etc. Has > anybody had any experiance/problems with those? > I am very happy with my Sony 200sx. It's a very nice 17 inch monitor. The price for a 200sx here in the bay area is around $575.00 to $600.00 Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 22:11:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA06433 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:11:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06410 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:11:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@cybercom.net) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA06579; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:11:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from atlanta (world.std.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07169; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:11:38 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971211011004.009b8100@world.std.com> X-Sender: ksmm@world.std.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:10:04 -0500 To: zaphod@imailbox.com From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: Monitors... any recommendations? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971210210436.16247@mooseriver.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:04 PM 12/10/97 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: >On Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 10:31:55AM -0600, jtkipp@students.wisc.edu wrote: >> I might have the chance soon to get some new hardware (YEA!!), and it >> might include a new (or new-used) Monitor. Anybody have any advice about >> specific products that are good/that should be avoided? (I'll almost >> certainly be looking at 15-17 inch models...) Or products that work >> well/not at all with freebsd? How about monitors with tv-like controls >> (i.e. digital/on screeen) for color, contrast, brightness, etc. Has >> anybody had any experiance/problems with those? >> > >I am very happy with my Sony 200sx. It's a very nice 17 inch monitor. The >price for a 200sx here in the bay area is around $575.00 to $600.00 I've heard that the Sony monitors are good, and I'll personally vouch for my ViewSonic. It's a 17" with 16" viewable area. After using it's digital on-screen controls, I hate going back to manual knobs. Having a monitor that remembers the settings for various refresh rates is nice too, since I run various OSes that use different display settings. K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 22:12:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA06657 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:12:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from electric.tbe.net (electric.tbe.net [208.208.122.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA06637 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:12:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gary@tbe.net) Received: (qmail 22447 invoked from network); 11 Dec 1997 06:02:05 -0000 Received: from shock.tbe.net (gary@208.208.122.6) by electric.tbe.net with SMTP; 11 Dec 1997 06:02:05 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:04:14 -0500 (EST) From: "Gary D. Margiotta" To: zaphod@imailbox.com cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Monitors... any recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I might have the chance soon to get some new hardware (YEA!!), and it > might include a new (or new-used) Monitor. Anybody have any advice about > specific products that are good/that should be avoided? (I'll almost > certainly be looking at 15-17 inch models...) Or products that work > well/not at all with freebsd? How about monitors with tv-like controls > (i.e. digital/on screeen) for color, contrast, brightness, etc. Has > anybody had any experiance/problems with those? > > thanks, I would reccommend Viewsonic. I have an Optiquest V775 17", and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Friend of mine has a Viewsonic PT810 (21" model), and he absolutely loves it. Very sharp, crisp color. I have mine running 1280X1024, he has his set to 1600X1200, and everything is nice and defined, very readable (albeit a bit small ;) ), there is no screen flicker, and the viewable area is complete, edge-to-edge. The touch controls are very easy to use/understand, and the price is now down around $575 for my model. I would also suggest strongly to stay away from MAG monitors. Have had too many of them fry on us and people we know to reccommend them. In our experiences, they are good up till about 3 years, then they go funky. Returning them for factory service was also an unpleasant process. Just my $.02 ______________________________________________________________ -Gary Margiotta Voice: (973) 835-9696 TBE Internet Services Fax: (973) 256-4605 http://www.tbe.net E-Mail: gary@tbe.net From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 10 23:56:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA14732 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:56:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA14707 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmastrol@Jupiter.Mcs.Net) Received: from Jupiter.Mcs.Net (jmastrol@Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.88]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA04672; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:56:09 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jmastrol@localhost) by Jupiter.Mcs.Net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id BAA26410; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:56:08 -0600 (CST) From: John Mastrolia Message-Id: <199712110756.BAA26410@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Subject: Re: Monitors... any recommendations? To: zaphod@imailbox.com Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:56:08 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "jtkipp@students.wisc.edu" at Dec 10, 97 10:31:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I might have the chance soon to get some new hardware (YEA!!), and it > might include a new (or new-used) Monitor. Anybody have any advice about > specific products that are good/that should be avoided? (I'll almost > certainly be looking at 15-17 inch models...) Or products that work > well/not at all with freebsd? How about monitors with tv-like controls > (i.e. digital/on screeen) for color, contrast, brightness, etc. Has > anybody had any experiance/problems with those? > > thanks, > > ------------ > "I'm a fighter-MAGE-thief, I can do anything: I'll just never get any > better at it." Jesse Friend refering to his Dungeons and Dragons Character > Jesse Kipp, zaphod@imailbox.com, jtkipp@students.wisc.edu > ------------ I have had excellent service from my EIZO TX-C7S 17" monitor. It has a broad sync range (30-92 Khz horiz, 50-160 Hz vert) and has a flicker free display at 1280x1024 - 85 Hz. Works great with XFree and a Matrox 4Mb video card. It also works well with Xigraphics X server. XFree drives the monitor at 1280x1024 - 76Hz, 1600x1280 - 70Hz (things get a little small at this resolution). As far as what to avoid: if ViewSonic still makes the 21PS, avoid it. Mine dimmed rather quickly. Just my $.02 worth. jmastrol@mcs.net From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 00:08:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA15578 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:08:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15554 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01513 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:33:38 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712110803.SAA01513@word.smith.net.au> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:33:36 +1030 From: Mike Smith Subject: StarOffice 4.0 update Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To: undisclosed-recipients:; ------- Blind-Carbon-Copy X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: StarOffice 4.0 update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:33:36 +1030 From: Mike Smith Just to keep people up to date with the state of affairs. The new StarOffice 4.0 beta for OpenLinux "sort of" runs on FreeBSD. It is currently hampered by the non-working linux-mode DNS (and I would like to hear from anyone that knows why it's broken, hint, hint all you budding hackertypes out there), spews a million unhappy warnings about colourmaps (at least on non-8-bit displays) and falls over very quickly. In short, don't waste your time (yet) downloading the 50MB monster unless you want to work on helping the StarDivision people debug it. mike ------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 02:34:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA02188 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 02:34:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from didda.est.is (ppp-44.est.is [194.144.208.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA02173; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 02:34:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from totii@est.is) Received: from est.is (didda.est.is [192.168.255.1]) by didda.est.is (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13334; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:33:50 GMT (envelope-from totii@est.is) Message-ID: <348FC18C.A47E2085@est.is> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:33:48 +0000 From: "Þorður Ivarsson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , "Eric J. Schwertfeger" CC: "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: New era of spam ?? References: <199712102309.PAA00150@hub.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Have you looked at the software offered at the URL in the message I sent first? I think my "thivars@est.is" email address is in one html page at our server, if it is there after we switched the web pages out last summer. I have noticed some (I think) automated traffic in the nighttime and in the moring that is not coming from the large search engines like AltaVista or others. I belive that we will get lot of request by such mini search engines that will crawl the web for email addresses and that will be used to spam us in near future. We did block finger to our network from outside with very strange results. In just one month the finger requests droped down from thousands to within 10 I think per day. All the requests came from just few source addresses. -- Þórður Ívarsson Thordur Ivarsson Rafeindavirki Electronic technician Norðurgötu 30 Nordurgotu 30 Box 309 Box 309 602 Akureyri 602 Akureyri Ísland Iceland --------------------------------------------- FreeBSD has good features, Some others are full of unwanted features! --------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 06:02:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA14185 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:02:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA14180 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:02:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00782; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:02:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:02:26 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Reply-To: John Fieber To: zaphod@imailbox.com cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Monitors... any recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, jtkipp@students.wisc.edu wrote: > I might have the chance soon to get some new hardware (YEA!!), and it > might include a new (or new-used) Monitor. Anybody have any advice about > specific products that are good/that should be avoided? I have a 15 inch MAG, about four years old that I liked pretty well until I bought my wife a Sony 100sx last week. Despite the Sony being their last-year's-bottom-of-the-line-model-on-sale, I'm a bit envious now. :) -john From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 08:52:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA25591 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:52:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA25565 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:52:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01125; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:51:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:51:44 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: "J. Weatherbee - Senior Systems Architect" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This IS relevant, you'll realize why later. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to chat] On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, J. Weatherbee - Senior Systems Architect wrote: > Does anyone have any numbers for the sum total amount of information > existing in the universe? Define what you mean by "information". -john From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 08:56:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA25884 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:56:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA25877 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:56:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jackv@pacbell.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-29-216.wnck11.pacbell.net [206.170.29.216]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id IAA00473 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:56:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Jack Velte" To: Subject: Re: Monitors... any recommendations? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:44:01 -0800 Message-ID: <01bd0653$fc40cf80$501daace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >I have a 15 inch MAG, about four years old that I liked pretty >well until I bought my wife a Sony 100sx last week. Despite the >Sony being their last-year's-bottom-of-the-line-model-on-sale, >I'm a bit envious now. :) you'all might check out onsale.com where they sell new and factory refurbished monitors for substantial discounts from retail. most of the models are slightly older -- no new stuff -- but you can get pretty good deals on superb equipment if you're patient. -jack From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 09:42:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29679 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:42:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29668 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:41:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atf3r@cs.virginia.edu) Received: from ares.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa11957; 11 Dec 97 12:40 EST Received: from mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (mamba-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.18]) by ares.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA22788; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:40:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (atf3r@localhost) by mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA13605; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:40:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU: atf3r owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:40:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: "Larry S. Marso" cc: Patrick Gardella , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yahoo Vandals? In-Reply-To: <19971211091919.59865@panix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [redirected to chat] Just because a yahoo! system was compromised, says nothing about whether anything that is part of FreeBSD was to blame. I think it is safe to say that the yahoo! folks run a lot of custom code, especially custom CGI's. Anyone remember the phf CGI hole? Let's not jump to conclusions. Let's also not let others do the same, if it means assuming FreeBSD was the vulnerability. Personally, I want to know more about the intrusion first. Adrian On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Larry S. Marso wrote: > Ah! Hadn't thought about that. I think we can safely conclude, given this > aspect of the story, that this whole thing is a plot by Micro$oft to > discredit FreeBSD. ;-) > -- > Larry S. Marso > lsmarso@panix.com > > > > On Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 08:33:17AM -0500, Patrick Gardella wrote: > > I light of the break-in at Yahoo, and the recent conversations about Yahoo's > > use of FreeBSD, does anyone know how they managed to get in? I can make some > > guesses (hole in applications, sniffing for passwords, physical compromise of > > passwords, etc.), but I thought I would ask. Just want to make sure there isn't > > some hidden security hole that hasn't been plugged. > > > > I haven't heard anything from the news sources about FreeBSD or how they got in. > > > > I certainly wish we could say that since they were switched to WindozeNT, they > > were cracked ;) But they are still running FreeBSD, AFAIK. > > > > No cause for alarm, just curiosity! > > > > Patrick Gardella > > recent conversations about Yahoo's > > use of FreeBSD, does anyone know how they managed to get in? I can make some > > guesses, but I thought I would ask. > > > > I haven't heard anything from the news sources about FreeBSD or how they got in. > > > > I > Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualzation Lab -->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 12:15:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11218 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:15:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from blue.bad.bris.ac.uk (blue.bad.bris.ac.uk [137.222.132.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11185 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:15:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk) Received: (qmail 366 invoked by uid 57242); 11 Dec 1997 20:15:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:15:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Aled Treharne Reply-To: felix@royal.net To: zaphod@imailbox.com cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Monitors... any recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, jtkipp@students.wisc.edu wrote: > I might have the chance soon to get some new hardware (YEA!!), and it > might include a new (or new-used) Monitor. Anybody have any advice about > specific products that are good/that should be avoided? (I'll almost > certainly be looking at 15-17 inch models...) Or products that work > well/not at all with freebsd? How about monitors with tv-like controls > (i.e. digital/on screeen) for color, contrast, brightness, etc. Has > anybody had any experiance/problems with those? > I've been thinking of buying a monitor too, and Ilyama seem a good buy - they are dropping in price like crazy here in the UK. 15" (not sure of the model no) for 220UKP + VAT. Anyone got any experience of them? - -Taff. Aled Treharne felix@royal.net "Big Bird meets Salvador Dali has been brought to you by the numbers L and ), and by the letter 3." For PGP Public key finger taff@blue.bad.bris.ac.uk #include(std.disclaim) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNJBJ3MaJukNO1flNAQEUGgQAnGl9/Ehu4qKQggBcPInFf7Or4o598Pcn j0zrCHfOURWkckUR/gNzCAg2OrJaLCSsJqz/KxCicdMvEQhghEfteVUjw7jZ9juE V7R4db/HnVQWY6MO/tnDdOJhvhSChoSkeUSJb1CNp5PAJHwtvCZRRZVp4ee8k7D5 4py2fwn/sKQ= =zyXN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 12:38:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA12737 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:38:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA12726 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:37:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from james@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2019669; 11 Dec 97 20:12 GMT Received: (from james@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id BAA10900; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:40:36 GMT (envelope-from james) Message-ID: <19971211014033.05395@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:40:33 +0000 From: James Raynard To: Arne Steinkamm Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Support from Intel References: <199711241132.MAA21456@oldman.steinkamm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199711241132.MAA21456@oldman.steinkamm.com>; from Arne Steinkamm on Mon, Nov 24, 1997 at 12:32:18PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 24, 1997 at 12:32:18PM +0100, Arne Steinkamm wrote: > > No FreeBSD on http://support.intel.com/support/processors/pentium/ppiie/software.htm Now that we have a fix, could someone (from core?) ask Intel to put a FreeBSD entry on here? -- In theory, theory is better than practice. In practice, it isn't. James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland. http://www.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 20:10:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA13844 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:10:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp1.teleport.com (smtp1.teleport.com [192.108.254.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA13808 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:09:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrl@teleport.com) Received: from user2.teleport.com (usertest.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by smtp1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19879; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:09:42 -0800 (PST) From: Mostyn Lewis Received: (from mrl@localhost) by user2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA08761; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:09:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712120409.UAA08761@user2.teleport.com> Subject: FreeBSD in SunExpert Magazine Renewal Notice To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:09:42 -0800 (PST) Cc: mrl@teleport.com (Mostyn Lewis) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd not noticed this before, SunExpert Magaizine, in their Operating Systems section, on the renewal form have a FreeBSD checkbox :-) This in company with AIX, Digital UNIX, HP-UX, IRIX, LINUX ( :( ), MacOS, MVS, OS-400, SCI UNIX, Sun/Solaris, VM, VMS, -> arghhhh.. Windows, Windows NT, Windows 95 Other Mostyn From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 21:18:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18719 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:18:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18708 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:17:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id VAA02260; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id NAA10133; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:15:16 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971212131512.00114@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:15:12 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: felix@royal.net Cc: zaphod@imailbox.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Monitors... any recommendations? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Aled Treharne on Thu, Dec 11, 1997 at 08:15:20PM +0000 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Dec 11, 1997 at 08:15:20PM +0000, Aled Treharne wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, jtkipp@students.wisc.edu wrote: > >> I might have the chance soon to get some new hardware (YEA!!), and it >> might include a new (or new-used) Monitor. Anybody have any advice about >> specific products that are good/that should be avoided? (I'll almost >> certainly be looking at 15-17 inch models...) Or products that work >> well/not at all with freebsd? How about monitors with tv-like controls >> (i.e. digital/on screeen) for color, contrast, brightness, etc. Has >> anybody had any experiance/problems with those? >> > I've been thinking of buying a monitor too, and Ilyama seem a good buy - > they are dropping in price like crazy here in the UK. 15" (not sure of > the model no) for 220UKP + VAT. Anyone got any experience of them? I've been using 21" iiyamas for nearly 2 years now, and IMO they're some of the best monitors I've ever seen. The cheaper model is better, and has no detectable convergence problems. I've never seen that on any Trinitron or similar monitor, not even the (more expensive) iiyama model I bought by accident. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 22:47:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24507 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:47:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24499 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:47:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03608 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:47:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712120647.WAA03608@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD vs linux Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:47:01 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It is interesting the on-going debate on comp.bsd.freebsd.misc. I see this pattern over and over: "Oh, Yeah --- just tell me whats so great about FreeBSD" "I think that FreeBSD is a piece of shit " My point is that the I don't see the linux camps providing much technological arguments . What they are doing is a rather crude system analysis. So pretty please try not to make your opposition stronger!! Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 23:01:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25368 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:01:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25360 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:01:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA12916; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:01:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:01:38 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Mostyn Lewis cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in SunExpert Magazine Renewal Notice In-Reply-To: <199712120409.UAA08761@user2.teleport.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sometimes it's nice not to be "other"... Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com ---- "I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man Just a mortal with potential of a superman I'm living on" -DB On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Mostyn Lewis wrote: > I'd not noticed this before, SunExpert Magaizine, in their > Operating Systems section, on the renewal form have a > FreeBSD checkbox :-) > > This in company with > AIX, Digital UNIX, HP-UX, IRIX, LINUX ( :( ), MacOS, > MVS, OS-400, SCI UNIX, Sun/Solaris, VM, VMS, > -> arghhhh.. Windows, Windows NT, Windows 95 > Other > > Mostyn > From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 23:30:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27496 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:30:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27460 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:29:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02199; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:29:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712120729.CAA02199@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux In-Reply-To: <199712120647.WAA03608@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Dec 11, 97 10:47:01 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:29:41 -0500 (EST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Amancio Hasty said: > It is interesting the on-going debate on comp.bsd.freebsd.misc. > > I see this pattern over and over: > > "Oh, Yeah --- just tell me whats so great about FreeBSD" > "I think that FreeBSD is a piece of shit " > > My point is that the I don't see the linux camps providing much > technological arguments . What they are doing is a rather crude > system analysis. > > So pretty please try not to make your opposition stronger!! > I have been trying to restrain myself, but the personal invectives are hard to deal with. My problem is that I will not be assimulated by either Borg1(Microsoft) or Borg2(Linux). The individual Borg call themselves "drones", and there are "thousands" of them. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 23:47:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28867 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28848 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:47:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id XAA14578; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:47:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id PAA10338; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:46:45 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971212154642.57734@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:46:42 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: (fwd) Re: F00F bug *fixed* in 2.0.x kernels References: <3491cfe3.6774010@mail.cetlink.net> <14241.881910240@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <14241.881910240@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:04:00PM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (following up to -chat) On Thu, Dec 11, 1997 at 11:04:00PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Yeah, I think everyone's seen this Torvalds flame by now. > > The sad thing was, that was *not* the FreeBSD fix. It was a fix that > had been floated earlier by someone on the mailing lists and was never > committed to the tree - the eventual fix which made it in was the > Intel fix. Intel, in fact, even commented on that first proposed fix > even earlier than Linus did and told us why it wouldn't work. > > There was never any intention of using the fix that Linus cites, it > was just one of many fixes under evaluation, and all he's done here is > gone off half-cocked again with accompanying language which simply > made the mistake far worse than it needed to be. People will often > forgive one even the most blatant suppositions if one is polite about > them. Make even a minor error with the tagline "(you fucking idiot!)" > embeded, however, and you can count on being embroiled in flames for > at least a month. I think Miss Manners may be on to something > here. :-) In fact, this was the first I had seen of it. How do people manage to read the news groups as well? It's a pity that Linus seems to be becoming less professional in his approach. In that message, he reminded me more of a football hero hurling invective after a match. Is this the price of fame? Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 23:51:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29208 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:51:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29195 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:51:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05550; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:50:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712120750.XAA05550@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "John S. Dyson" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:29:41 EST." <199712120729.CAA02199@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:50:49 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, Let me be blunt: Don't Post and I think is because of the same reason that Linus does not involved in such threads -- the linux fans will just simply take aim at you and will accomplish at least three things: 1. Get you emotionally inbalanced to a point that you may quit. 2. Provide valuable technical information. 3. Waste your time. Best Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 11 23:56:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29582 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:56:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29577 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:56:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02344; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:56:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712120756.CAA02344@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux In-Reply-To: <199712120750.XAA05550@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Dec 11, 97 11:50:49 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:56:05 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Amancio Hasty said: > > Well, > > Let me be blunt: Don't Post and I think is because of the same > reason that Linus does not involved in such threads -- the linux fans > will just simply take aim at you and will accomplish at least three things: (Those animals :-)). > > > 1. Get you emotionally inbalanced to a point that you may quit. > That is true anyway (about the imbalance :-).) > > 2. Provide valuable technical information. > I am very careful. That is one thing that I kind of consider to be the game that they think that they are playing. I see that they are trying to extract info. > > 3. Waste your time. > I have the flu, and don't have anything else to do. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 00:13:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA00874 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:13:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA00866 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:13:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA14564; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:13:01 -0800 (PST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:47:01 PST." <199712120647.WAA03608@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:13:01 -0800 Message-ID: <14560.881914381@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > So pretty please try not to make your opposition stronger!! Or better yet, allow those sorry, sad substitutes for "discussion" on USENET to just *die out* by staying away from their obvious trolls every couple of weeks. :-) I rose to the occasion for a few of them, now I just hit delete. I find that this results in the original flamer getting *far* less air time in terms of other people talking about him and his flaming thread. That's all they really want out of this, I think, so better to ignore them and not give them what they want. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 02:53:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA10450 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:53:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA10440 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:53:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (AaepPFHOl1ExBERIDERVjwEZIMrAksf5@greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12444; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:53:35 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (9iBHjTNxiHt0S5JFKMcnP4Lk2MqsW/2M@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14187; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:58:38 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Message-Id: <199712121058.MAA14187@greenpeace.grondar.za> To: "John S. Dyson" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:58:37 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "John S. Dyson" wrote: > I have been trying to restrain myself, but the personal invectives > are hard to deal with. My problem is that I will not be assimulated > by either Borg1(Microsoft) or Borg2(Linux). The individual Borg > call themselves "drones", and there are "thousands" of them. I, for one couldn't give a tinker's cuss how many lemmings want to jump over the cliff edge. I am happy with what I have and what I do. Most importantly, I am very happy with the folk that I am doing it with. John, all of y'all (is that how you say it?) are doing a GREAT job IMO, and in the collective opinion of very many people with me at work who are OS converts --> FreeBSD (from many). Forget the idiots. There are FreeBSD twits as well. I go by 3 laws: 1) Do not hit shit; it splatters, and you get your hand dirty. 2) Do not argue with fools; outsiders cannot tell the difference. 3) Smile, it could get worse. [1] M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org [1] I did, and it did. :-) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 03:04:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA11100 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:04:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA11086 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:04:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (Vzj52FAUaEICqjVABBPq+1qwwg1x5A4v@greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12463; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:04:59 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (g89iZGVOzP5zXxORu5R6hglZG1eOknHf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14267; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:10:02 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Message-Id: <199712121110.NAA14267@greenpeace.grondar.za> To: John Fieber cc: "J. Weatherbee - Senior Systems Architect" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This IS relevant, you'll realize why later. Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:10:01 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Fieber wrote: > On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, J. Weatherbee - Senior Systems Architect wrote: > > > Does anyone have any numbers for the sum total amount of information > > existing in the universe? > > Define what you mean by "information". Not the answer you were looking for, John, but how about this from an informatics point-of-view. At least n Bits Where n is the total quantity of mass/energy quanta reduced to binary states. More information is given by each's position in spacetime. The "reduction" process excludes those quanta reappearing through time travel. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 03:47:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA13468 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:47:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paladio.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA13454 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:47:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by paladio.canonware.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA30716; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:47:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:47:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Evans X-Sender: jasone@paladio Reply-To: Jason Evans To: Greg Lehey cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: (fwd) Re: F00F bug *fixed* in 2.0.x kernels In-Reply-To: <19971212154642.57734@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > It's a pity that Linus seems to be becoming less professional in his > approach. In that message, he reminded me more of a football hero > hurling invective after a match. Is this the price of fame? I recently read an entire newsgroup thread on the debate over Minix vs. Linux, posted circa 1992 (there's a link off of some KDE page). I was shocked to find an overall level of diplomacy and civility that I've never seen in any newsgroup (I started reading newsgroups in about 1994). Linus apologizing for "flaming" another poster, when I considered it a very prudent post. Times change... Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 03:47:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA13478 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:47:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paladio.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA13459 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:47:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by paladio.canonware.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA30724; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:47:37 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:47:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Evans X-Sender: jasone@paladio Reply-To: Jason Evans To: "John S. Dyson" cc: Amancio Hasty , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux In-Reply-To: <199712120729.CAA02199@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, John S. Dyson wrote: > I have been trying to restrain myself, but the personal invectives > are hard to deal with. My problem is that I will not be assimulated > by either Borg1(Microsoft) or Borg2(Linux). The individual Borg > call themselves "drones", and there are "thousands" of them. So what are you going to do when Borg3(FreeBSD) takes over the world? =) Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 03:52:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA14025 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:52:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA13987 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:52:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04685; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:52:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199712121152.GAA04685@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux In-Reply-To: from Jason Evans at "Dec 12, 97 03:47:37 am" To: jasone@canonware.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:52:21 -0500 (EST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason Evans said: > On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, John S. Dyson wrote: > > I have been trying to restrain myself, but the personal invectives > > are hard to deal with. My problem is that I will not be assimulated > > by either Borg1(Microsoft) or Borg2(Linux). The individual Borg > > call themselves "drones", and there are "thousands" of them. > > So what are you going to do when Borg3(FreeBSD) takes over the world? =) > I really don't think that we have goals that aggressive :-). -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 05:25:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA18644 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 05:25:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA18636 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 05:25:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (dialin1.anlw.anl.gov [141.221.254.101]) by anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id GAA18498 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:24:59 -0700 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:24:27 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: (fwd) Re: F00F bug *fixed* in 2.0.x kernels In-Reply-To: <19971212154642.57734@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > It's a pity that Linus seems to be becoming less professional in his > approach. In that message, he reminded me more of a football hero > hurling invective after a match. Is this the price of fame? > > Greg Maybe coming to America and getting alot of money had something to do with it also. Accomplishing what Linus did with linux took great individualism and an iron will. Out of his natural context, these traits can offend. Sad to say, but America can sometimes bring out the worst in people. Despite the fact that the segment violation scheme wasn't perfect, I think it was actually quite a clever idea, considering the little information that its inventor had to work with. Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 05:32:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA19026 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 05:32:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA19018 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 05:32:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199712121327.IAA23195@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:32:01 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Amancio Hasty cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux In-Reply-To: <199712120647.WAA03608@rah.star-gate.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > It is interesting the on-going debate on comp.bsd.freebsd.misc. > > I see this pattern over and over: > > "Oh, Yeah --- just tell me whats so great about FreeBSD" > "I think that FreeBSD is a piece of shit " > > My point is that the I don't see the linux camps providing much > technological arguments . What they are doing is a rather crude > system analysis. > > So pretty please try not to make your opposition stronger!! > > Amancio > Does usenet still exist? I would have thought all threads would have finally terminated with a comparison of poster Foo to Hitler by poster Bar. -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 05:42:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA19714 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 05:42:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA19710 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 05:42:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199712121338.IAA23249@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:42:23 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Jason Evans cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Jason Evans wrote: > On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, John S. Dyson wrote: > > I have been trying to restrain myself, but the personal invectives > > are hard to deal with. My problem is that I will not be assimulated > > by either Borg1(Microsoft) or Borg2(Linux). The individual Borg > > call themselves "drones", and there are "thousands" of them. > > So what are you going to do when Borg3(FreeBSD) takes over the world? =) > > Jason We are FreeBSD, resistance is counterproductive. -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 06:01:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20413 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:01:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from toth.ferginc.com (toth.ferginc.com [205.139.23.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA20407 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:01:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kjm@toth.ferginc.com) Received: (from kjm@localhost) by toth.ferginc.com (You_Can/Keep_Guessing) id IAA02224; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:42:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971212084211.63177@toth.FergInc.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:42:11 -0500 From: Ken Monville To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux Reply-To: Ken.Monville@FergInc.com References: <199712121058.MAA14187@greenpeace.grondar.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199712121058.MAA14187@greenpeace.grondar.za>; from Mark Murray on Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 12:58:37PM +0200 Organization: Ferguson Enterprises, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Dec 12, 1997 at 12:58:37PM +0200, Mark Murray wrote: > "John S. Dyson" wrote: > > I have been trying to restrain myself, but the personal invectives > > are hard to deal with. My problem is that I will not be assimulated > > by either Borg1(Microsoft) or Borg2(Linux). The individual Borg > > call themselves "drones", and there are "thousands" of them. > > I, for one couldn't give a tinker's cuss how many lemmings want to jump > over the cliff edge. I am happy with what I have and what I do. Most > importantly, I am very happy with the folk that I am doing it with. > > John, all of y'all (is that how you say it?) are doing a GREAT job > IMO, and in the collective opinion of very many people with me at work > who are OS converts --> FreeBSD (from many). > > Forget the idiots. There are FreeBSD twits as well. > > I go by 3 laws: > > 1) Do not hit shit; it splatters, and you get your hand dirty. > > 2) Do not argue with fools; outsiders cannot tell the difference. > > 3) Smile, it could get worse. [1] > I have a little saying taped to the bottom of my monitor.. I forget where I got it from, but I don't take credit for it... 4) Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. I find most of usenet flamewars tend to be like this and therefore stay away. :-) ken -- Ken Monville Internet Coordinator, Ferguson Enterprises, Inc. Ken.Monville@FergInc.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 06:29:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA22440 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:29:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA22386 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:29:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA03995; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:28:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:28:03 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Mark Murray cc: "J. Weatherbee - Senior Systems Architect" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This IS relevant, you'll realize why later. In-Reply-To: <199712121110.NAA14267@greenpeace.grondar.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Mark Murray wrote: > John Fieber wrote: > > On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, J. Weatherbee - Senior Systems Architect wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have any numbers for the sum total amount of information > > > existing in the universe? > > > > Define what you mean by "information". > > Not the answer you were looking for, John, but how about this from > an informatics point-of-view. > > At least n Bits > > Where n is the total quantity of mass/energy quanta reduced to binary > states. Yes, that view exists in a mathematical branch of the field of informatics. The rest of modern information/information science, however, would call that DATA, with information basically being data with MEANING. Or, data that is distinguished from noise is information. For example, from the OED 2nd edition has this to say on information: Knowledge communicated concerning some particular fact, subject, or event; that of which one is apprised or told; intelligence, news. spec. contrasted with data. For original the question asked, this definition of information is not useful. It isn't very tangible or quantifiable because in this view, information is in the eye of the beholder. Unfortunately, the "at least n bits" definition largely ignores the etymology of the word. The first sense of the root "inform" (OED again) is "To give form to, put into form or shape." The subsequent senses are close variants, all emphasizing the intellectual process of shaping and ordering. This is not to say that there is anything particularly wrong with the mathematical information theory, just that the term choice is regrettable. Maybe I'm just picking nits, but information science is my academic discipline so I am possibly a little hypersensitive about proper use of terminology central to the field. :) -john From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 06:44:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23974 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:44:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23951 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:44:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07852 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:44:23 GMT Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:45:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux In-Reply-To: <14560.881914381@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I rose to the occasion for a few of them, now I just hit delete. I > find that this results in the original flamer getting *far* less air > time in terms of other people talking about him and his flaming > thread. That's all they really want out of this, I think, so > better to ignore them and not give them what they want. :) Actually I think they really want to feel that they have persuaded people to listen to their 'wise voice of guidance', if you could call it that. IMHO, If 'joe bloggs/john doe' goes to OtherOS(tm) because of the sort of insulting rubbish I used to see on USENET then isn't that better than having him and his rantings here ? So, isn't making the 'opposition' strongera a good thing in this case? The intelligent people can try each OS and make decisions based on their requirements. Steve -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 07:50:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA29082 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from augustus-239.cs.umn.edu (root@augustus-148.cs.umn.edu [160.94.148.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA29032 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:49:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bandi@mail.cs.umn.edu) Received: from oxygen.cs.umn.edu (bandi@oxygen.cs.umn.edu [128.101.228.6]) by augustus-239.cs.umn.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05125; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:48:53 -0600 (CST) From: VB Received: (from bandi@localhost) by oxygen.cs.umn.edu (8.8.3/8.8.0) id JAA07042; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:48:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199712121548.JAA07042@oxygen.cs.umn.edu> Subject: Re: This IS relevant, you'll realize why later. In-Reply-To: from John Fieber at "Dec 12, 97 09:28:03 am" To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:48:53 -0600 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > John Fieber wrote: > > > On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, J. Weatherbee - Senior Systems Architect wrote: > > > > > > > Does anyone have any numbers for the sum total amount of information > > > > existing in the universe? > > > > > > Define what you mean by "information". > > > > Not the answer you were looking for, John, but how about this from > > an informatics point-of-view. > > > > At least n Bits > > > > Where n is the total quantity of mass/energy quanta reduced to binary > > states. > There is a book titled - 'physics of immortality' that attempts such quantifications. One can ignore the conclusions of the book but still make good use of the chockful of numbers thrown around and the excellent bibliography. Specifically, the author tries to put a ceiling on the sum total of information in the universe as the cartesian product of basic particles of matter and their possible states. While I found the arguments presented rather forced and drawn out, the statistical premises (author is a statistical physician, I think) were reasonable and clear. amazon.com has a blurb (rather distasteful one at that) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0385467990/0750-9603483-170006 -vijay From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 23:12:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA01237 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:12:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mutara.noc.erols.net (mutara.noc.erols.net [207.172.25.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01233 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:12:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gjp@mutara.noc.erols.net) Received: (from gjp@localhost) by mutara.noc.erols.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id CAA12307; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:12:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:12:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712130712.CAA12307@mutara.noc.erols.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 References: <13445.881641544@time.cdrom.com> From: gjp@erols.net (Gary Palmer) Subject: Re: X Conferencing: was [hackers:] Architectural advice needed X-Original-Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.chat To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <13445.881641544@time.cdrom.com>, jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) writes: > Actually, the whole system of network chat rooms, shared whiteboards, > video conferencing, etc, is already well available using the MBONE > tools, now if only most of us could get *on* the MBONE anymore. :( > CRL, the ISP for Walnut Creek CDROM (and hence me), doesn't pass MBONE > traffic anymore and this situation is mirrored for many other folks I > know of. I have MBone to my desk at work, and we send it to our dialups too, but the lossage makes it next to useless :-( We have multiple peers at MAE-East (I believe), but most of the traffic still seems to need to go through the west coast somewhere, and a lot of backbones are having cross-country congestion right now, which makes MBone next to worthless as there is enough packet loss to render even plain audio streams uninteligible. Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 12 23:23:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA01614 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:23:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mutara.noc.erols.net (mutara.noc.erols.net [207.172.25.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01603 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:23:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gjp@mutara.noc.erols.net) Received: (from gjp@localhost) by mutara.noc.erols.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id CAA12282; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:10:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:10:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712130710.CAA12282@mutara.noc.erols.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 References: <199712082138.XAA07553@shadows.aeon.net> From: gjp@erols.net (Gary Palmer) Subject: Re: news servers X-Original-Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.chat To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <199712082138.XAA07553@shadows.aeon.net>, bsdchat@shadows.aeon.net (mika ruohotie) writes: > just out of curiousity, and to back myself up in an argument, well, > more like a sort of an argument, it's not a huge disagreement... > anyone know what kind of hardware say top 20-30 usenet servers > listed in http://www.freenix.fr/top1000 are using? > > i mean the latest, october stat. > > freebsd on _any_ of those? (if not, where's the first known one?) > > dont tell me first limux can be found above [free]bsd... > > [and why do i recall like someone on the freebsd lists would > be maintaining, more or less, top servers...] >From the latest list, and memory: Rank weight name ============================ 1 28.59 cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com (Solaris, Cyclone) 2 26.48 newsfeed.internetmci.com (Solaris, Cyclone) 3 20.45 news.maxwell.syr.edu (NT, NNTPRelay) 4 16.20 howland.erols.net (Solaris, Cyclone) 5 15.24 news-peer.sprintlink.net (Solaris, Cyclone) 6 14.82 cyberspam (virtual) 7 13.29 sol.net (FreeBSD, Diablo) 8 13.27 newsfeeds.sol.net (FreeBSD, Diablo) 9 12.02 adiron (no idea) 10 11.99 nocemed (virtual) 11 11.48 newspeer.sol.net (FreeBSD, Diablo) 12 9.24 newsfeed.direct.ca (Solaris, Cyclone from the Banner) Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 13 00:46:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA05795 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:46:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05775 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:46:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00563; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:46:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712130846.AAA00563@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: gjp@erols.net (Gary Palmer) cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X Conferencing: was [hackers:] Architectural advice needed In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:12:44 EST." <199712130712.CAA12307@mutara.noc.erols.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:46:40 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't have any problems over here with the mbone . I suggest that you post to the mbone mailing list to get people to help you out trace the problem. Cheers, Amancio > In article <13445.881641544@time.cdrom.com>, > jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) writes: > > Actually, the whole system of network chat rooms, shared whiteboards, > > video conferencing, etc, is already well available using the MBONE > > tools, now if only most of us could get *on* the MBONE anymore. :( > > CRL, the ISP for Walnut Creek CDROM (and hence me), doesn't pass MBONE > > traffic anymore and this situation is mirrored for many other folks I > > know of. > > I have MBone to my desk at work, and we send it to our dialups too, > but the lossage makes it next to useless :-( We have multiple > peers at MAE-East (I believe), but most of the traffic still seems > to need to go through the west coast somewhere, and a lot of backbones > are having cross-country congestion right now, which makes MBone > next to worthless as there is enough packet loss to render even plain > audio streams uninteligible. > > Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 13 02:20:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11080 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:20:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11072 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:20:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA06445 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:20:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712131020.FAA06445@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Did I see something familiar on CNN? To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:20:21 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have CNN headline news on my TV in the background most of the time. On headline news, during a report talking about the Microsoft browser ruling, did I see a Whistlejet??? Okay, I'll be more accurate about the question :-): Was there a Whistlejet in the report? -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 13 03:53:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA18168 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:53:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp5.portal.net.au [202.12.71.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA18154 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:53:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA02750; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:17:37 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712131147.WAA02750@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mike Smith cc: Bruce Evans , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/minigzip - Imported sources In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:12:17 +1030." <199712131142.WAA02706@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:17:36 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Wrong. It is 52K when linked shared under both -current and 2.2 (I > > actually tested under freefall's ancient version of 2.2, not under 2.2.5). > > MHO, it appears that gzip is built static even though it is installed > in /usr/bin. Any idea why this is? a) That should have been MHA, not MHO. b) Read them commitlogs. Jordan, I'll be sendin' you the bill for this here hole in my pedal extremity. 8) I'm off to soak in a pool; my usefulness for tonight is done. mike From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 13 22:07:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA12790 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:07:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA12783 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:07:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from softweyr@xmission.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com [199.104.124.49] by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xh7Cr-00041T-00; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:07:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3493795A.41C67EA6@xmission.com> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:14:50 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ken.Monville@FergInc.com CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs linux References: <199712121058.MAA14187@greenpeace.grondar.za> <19971212084211.63177@toth.FergInc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ken Monville wrote: > I have a little saying taped to the bottom of my monitor.. I forget > where I got it from, but I don't take credit for it... > > 4) Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then > beat you with experience. > > I find most of usenet flamewars tend to be like this and therefore > stay away. :-) A corollary to this is the old admonition: "Never try to teach a pig to sing, it just makes you look stupid and irritates the pig." Attempting to cram the superiority of FreeBSD down the throats of non-receptive Linuxers, and worse, True Believers in The Microsfoft Way (sm), is very much like trying to teach a pig to sing. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com