From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 21 18:43:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18807 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 18:43:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18438 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 18:38:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA23331; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:36:06 GMT Message-ID: <349C9CB0.BE5D4BD0@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:36:02 +0000 From: Ruslan Shevchenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books References: <349C9323.1A640FA@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> <19971222130017.30553@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sun, Dec 21, 1997 at 03:55:16AM +0000, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > ? John Kenagy wrote: > ? > ?? Now that I've about got a behemoth of a text processing system > ?? loaded up. I need to know how to use it!;-) > ?? > ?? Anybody got any reccomended books on latex, tex (teTeX), etc.? > ? > ? > ? 1. TeX book by D. Knuth. > > Read this and watch your brain turn to mush. I think it's one of the > most useless books I've come across. It's full of arcania, and > instead of telling you what to do, it presents everything as a series > of problems. As if TeX wasn't enough of a problem by itself. > Hm, of course, it is not introduction for dummies, but the book is very well. And where you want to find any other *complete* description of TeX ? > 2. LaTeX users quide by L. Lamport. > > This book is better. But then, so are most books. > > As may be evident, I don't like TeX. It's not for want of trying; I > used it exclusively for several years. Troff was like a breath of > fresh air. Don't take this as a criticism of lyx; I haven't tried > lyx, and if it hides the obscenities of TeX well, it could be quite > useful. > TeX is a world and Tex is a culture. In this it is simular to UNIX. > Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 21 19:50:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22853 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:50:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA22844 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:50:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA22791; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:47:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:47:50 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Ruslan Shevchenko cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books In-Reply-To: <349C9CB0.BE5D4BD0@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > As may be evident, I don't like TeX. It's not for want of trying; I > > used it exclusively for several years. Troff was like a breath of > > fresh air. Don't take this as a criticism of lyx; I haven't tried > > lyx, and if it hides the obscenities of TeX well, it could be quite > > useful. > > > > TeX is a world and Tex is a culture. In this it is simular to UNIX. You know, I'd be more likely to use TeX myself, it it just had some better general-purpose macros for it. I really like the mm macros that are available for troff, and I sure wish an equivalent was here for TeX. Don't tell me TeX has macros, I know that, I just wish they weren't all pointed at writing math equations, and stuff I don't do much of. > > > Greg > > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 21 20:24:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA24811 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:24:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [207.173.185.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24790 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:24:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mallison@konnections.com) Received: from cospo.osis.gov (ip185-216.konnections.com [207.173.185.216]) by konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA24780; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:19:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <349DEBE0.3AA@konnections.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:26:08 -0700 From: Mike Allison Reply-To: mallison@konnections.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ruslan Shevchenko CC: Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books References: <349C9323.1A640FA@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> <19971222130017.30553@lemis.com> <349C9CB0.BE5D4BD0@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Here's some titles I have used and abused to my heart's content: "A Guide to Latex2e" (2nd ed) Kopka & Daly "The Latex Companion" Goosens Mittelbach and Samarin and an excellent beginners guide for Plain Tex: "A Plain Tex Primer" Malcolm Clark I started with Tex so Clark's was the first I bought. I still refer to it often, even in Latex. Stay away from earlier Latex books like Hahn's (unless it's been updated), as they deal with the older Latex 2.09 which has substantial differences. Anyway you go, there's no better system. If you need any help, feel free to contact me direct. -Mike Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > On Sun, Dec 21, 1997 at 03:55:16AM +0000, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > ? John Kenagy wrote: > > ? > > ?? Now that I've about got a behemoth of a text processing system > > ?? loaded up. I need to know how to use it!;-) > > ?? > > ?? Anybody got any reccomended books on latex, tex (teTeX), etc.? > > ? > > ? > > ? 1. TeX book by D. Knuth. > > > > Read this and watch your brain turn to mush. I think it's one of the > > most useless books I've come across. It's full of arcania, and > > instead of telling you what to do, it presents everything as a series > > of problems. As if TeX wasn't enough of a problem by itself. > > > > Hm, of course, it is not introduction for dummies, but the book is > very well. > > And where you want to find any other *complete* description of TeX ? > > > 2. LaTeX users quide by L. Lamport. > > > > This book is better. But then, so are most books. > > > > As may be evident, I don't like TeX. It's not for want of trying; I > > used it exclusively for several years. Troff was like a breath of > > fresh air. Don't take this as a criticism of lyx; I haven't tried > > lyx, and if it hides the obscenities of TeX well, it could be quite > > useful. > > > > TeX is a world and Tex is a culture. In this it is simular to UNIX. > > > Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 21 20:43:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA25753 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:43:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [207.173.185.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA25730 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:42:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mallison@konnections.com) Received: from cospo.osis.gov (ip185-216.konnections.com [207.173.185.216]) by konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA25132; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:38:19 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <349DF061.CE1@konnections.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:45:21 -0700 From: Mike Allison Reply-To: mallison@konnections.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Robey CC: Ruslan Shevchenko , Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You get to have your own opinion and experience, of course, but I think for a general writing tool, LaTeX is about it. I've typeset books and even done overhead slides and color photos. It does cross references and indexes as well as all the front matter so well, that I don't know what else to use. I think TeX and AMSTeX were, of course, very Math/Sci oriented, but LaTeX in 2e has become quite a good general purpose publishing package. On the other hand, there are a lot of times when I just use a word processor for most layout tasks since they have most everything in WYSIWYG. They can't beat LaTeX' power when it comes down to nit picking little details and perfection, however, (being a typesetter) -Mike Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > > > As may be evident, I don't like TeX. It's not for want of trying; I > > > used it exclusively for several years. Troff was like a breath of > > > fresh air. Don't take this as a criticism of lyx; I haven't tried > > > lyx, and if it hides the obscenities of TeX well, it could be quite > > > useful. > > > > > > > TeX is a world and Tex is a culture. In this it is simular to UNIX. > > You know, I'd be more likely to use TeX myself, it it just had some better > general-purpose macros for it. I really like the mm macros that are > available for troff, and I sure wish an equivalent was here for TeX. > Don't tell me TeX has macros, I know that, I just wish they weren't all > pointed at writing math equations, and stuff I don't do much of. > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD > (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 21 21:24:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28396 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:24:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28382 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:24:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA22938; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 00:22:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 00:22:25 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Mike Allison cc: Ruslan Shevchenko , Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books In-Reply-To: <349DF061.CE1@konnections.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, Mike Allison wrote: > You get to have your own opinion and experience, of course, but I think > for a general writing tool, LaTeX is about it. I've typeset books and > even done overhead slides and color photos. > > It does cross references and indexes as well as all the front matter so > well, that I don't know what else to use. > > I think TeX and AMSTeX were, of course, very Math/Sci oriented, but > LaTeX in 2e has become quite a good general purpose publishing package. > > On the other hand, there are a lot of times when I just use a word > processor for most layout tasks since they have most everything in > WYSIWYG. They can't beat LaTeX' power when it comes down to nit picking > little details and perfection, however, (being a typesetter) As far as opinion goes, I very willing to be proven wrong. I can easily get the mm macros to do what you said above, PLUS Neatly making lists, embedded lists, lists enumerated automatically with letters (upper/lower case both automatically available) numbers, Roman numerals, and custom designed bullets. I'm not talking about allowing you do do indent, I'm talking about doing it for you, remembering how many lists are active for you and at what level, what change to make between levels (when you end one sublist and go back to the parent) so that the numbers and the numbering system you asked for when you invoked the list macro works right. Same thing for chapters, figures, diagrams, etc. Nothing yo have to remember, it does it all. I can force this in TeX, but I can't get it all done neatly for me. Same thing for displays, like computer listings, and all this stuff is available automatically for the table for contents, which I don't have to mark things for, because the macros know I want things like that marked. How about 6 different types of standard headers, some pages, some not, for for formal papers, all sorts of standard things that I want macros to do for me. Tell me that LaTeX does this all for me, not that LateX allows it, and I'll be the first to switch. I think that TeX is great, I just don't yet see the neat macro support. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 21 22:25:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02052 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:25:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02036 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:25:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA00528; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:54:20 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19971222165420.58177@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:54:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Chuck Robey Cc: Mike Allison , Ruslan Shevchenko , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books References: <349DF061.CE1@konnections.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Mon, Dec 22, 1997 at 12:22:25AM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 22, 1997 at 12:22:25AM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, Mike Allison wrote: > >> You get to have your own opinion and experience, of course, but I think >> for a general writing tool, LaTeX is about it. I've typeset books and >> even done overhead slides and color photos. >> >> It does cross references and indexes as well as all the front matter so >> well, that I don't know what else to use. >> >> I think TeX and AMSTeX were, of course, very Math/Sci oriented, but >> LaTeX in 2e has become quite a good general purpose publishing package. >> >> On the other hand, there are a lot of times when I just use a word >> processor for most layout tasks since they have most everything in >> WYSIWYG. They can't beat LaTeX' power when it comes down to nit picking >> little details and perfection, however, (being a typesetter) > > As far as opinion goes, I very willing to be proven wrong. I can easily > get the mm macros to do what you said above, PLUS Agreed. I wrote "The Complete FreeBSD" completely in troff. In addition, please note that I had to be convinced to move from TeX to troff (by O'Reilly, while writing "Porting UNIX Software". At this point (1993), I had been using TeX for all my formatting needs for 4 years. I didn't want to go, but when I did, I was amazed how much easier everything was. So don't suspect me of NIH. > Neatly making lists, embedded lists, lists enumerated automatically with > letters (upper/lower case both automatically available) numbers, Roman > numerals, and custom designed bullets. I'm not talking about allowing you > do do indent, I'm talking about doing it for you, remembering how many > lists are active for you and at what level, what change to make between > levels (when you end one sublist and go back to the parent) so that the > numbers and the numbering system you asked for when you invoked the list > macro works right. > > Same thing for chapters, figures, diagrams, etc. Nothing yo have to > remember, it does it all. I can force this in TeX, but I can't get it all > done neatly for me. Same thing for displays, like computer listings, and > all this stuff is available automatically for the table for contents, > which I don't have to mark things for, because the macros know I want > things like that marked. > > How about 6 different types of standard headers, some pages, some not, for > for formal papers, all sorts of standard things that I want macros to do > for me. > > Tell me that LaTeX does this all for me, not that LateX allows it, and > I'll be the first to switch. I think that TeX is great, I just don't yet > see the neat macro support. I suspect that TeX is at least as powerful as troff. The trouble is that the descriptions are so terrible. In fact, the documentation for troff isn't great, either, but it's easier to understand than TeX. With a good manual, TeX might have more of a following. And, of course, maybe Lyx will help. My trouble is that I don't have time to change around from one tool to another all the time, so I probably won't try it. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 21 22:26:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02093 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:26:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02086 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:26:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA00539; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:55:51 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19971222165551.29241@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:55:51 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: mallison@konnections.com Cc: Ruslan Shevchenko , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books References: <349C9323.1A640FA@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> <19971222130017.30553@lemis.com> <349C9CB0.BE5D4BD0@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> <349DEBE0.3AA@konnections.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <349DEBE0.3AA@konnections.com>; from Mike Allison on Sun, Dec 21, 1997 at 09:26:08PM -0700 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Dec 21, 1997 at 09:26:08PM -0700, Mike Allison wrote: > Here's some titles I have used and abused to my heart's content: > > "A Guide to Latex2e" (2nd ed) Kopka & Daly > "The Latex Companion" Goosens Mittelbach and Samarin > > and an excellent beginners guide for Plain Tex: > > "A Plain Tex Primer" Malcolm Clark > > I started with Tex so Clark's was the first I bought. I still refer to > it often, even in Latex. > > Stay away from earlier Latex books like Hahn's (unless it's been > updated), as they deal with the older Latex 2.09 which has substantial > differences. The one I (still sometimes) use is "TeX for the impatient", by Paul Abrahams. I still don't think it's the perfect book on TeX, but it'll save you the hair-tearing frustration engendered by the TeXbook. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 21 23:59:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06411 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 23:59:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (csnet.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA06401 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 23:59:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.csa (csd [132.68.32.8]) by csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id JAA13495; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:57:59 +0200 Received: from localhost by csd.csa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA07820; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:58:43 +0200 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:58:43 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Chuck Robey cc: Mike Allison , Ruslan Shevchenko , Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > As far as opinion goes, I very willing to be proven wrong. I can easily > get the mm macros to do what you said above, PLUS > > Neatly making lists, embedded lists, lists enumerated automatically with > letters (upper/lower case both automatically available) numbers, Roman > numerals, and custom designed bullets. I'm not talking about allowing you > do do indent, I'm talking about doing it for you, remembering how many > lists are active for you and at what level, what change to make between > levels (when you end one sublist and go back to the parent) so that the > numbers and the numbering system you asked for when you invoked the list > macro works right. Well, LaTeX knows how to nest lists correctly, and you can (pretty easily) redefine its bullets to whatever you like. The Hebrew version even enumerates with Hebrew letters... > > Same thing for chapters, figures, diagrams, etc. Nothing yo have to > remember, it does it all. I can force this in TeX, but I can't get it all > done neatly for me. Same thing for displays, like computer listings, and > all this stuff is available automatically for the table for contents, > which I don't have to mark things for, because the macros know I want > things like that marked. Just declare a caption for a table or figure, and it will automatically appear in your \listoffigures or \listoftables. All sectional units (chapters, sections, subsections, appendices, etc.) automatically appear in your \tableofcontents. And, combined with BibTeX it makes citations a piece of cake (well, almost), which is alone worth many hours in the kind of work I do. > > How about 6 different types of standard headers, some pages, some not, for > for formal papers, all sorts of standard things that I want macros to do > for me. > > Tell me that LaTeX does this all for me, not that LateX allows it, and > I'll be the first to switch. I think that TeX is great, I just don't yet > see the neat macro support. I might be biased, but I really learned to love LaTeX. It's true that most of what I write is theoretical CS stuff, and I have probably as many greek letters as latin ones in it, but I won't trade LaTeX for any WYSIWYG thingy (haven't tried LyX, but Word is certainly not an option), and troff and friends are too much of a mess to use if you need to write complicated math. LaTeX2e has zillions of packages and add ons that will let you do almost anything without working too hard. > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD > (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > Nadav From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 00:26:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08066 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 00:26:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08049 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 00:26:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA19057 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:06:19 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10024 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:54:14 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id JAA00942; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:25:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19971222092538.28504@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:25:38 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: List of Unix/NT resources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Check out www.bsdi.com/info/ntvsunix. Interesting list of articles and reviews (sometimes BSDI, sometimes not) on comparing costs and perf. on "real" installations. -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- "Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?" - S. Kelly Bootle, about Cerberus ["MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib] - From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 08:01:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA01843 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:01:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA01821 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:01:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Jason_Smethers@bigfoot.com) Received: from jason (houasc1-51.flash.net [209.30.64.51]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA29147 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:00:31 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: Subject: rc5 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:52:56 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd0ef1$ab6e9460$016f6f6f@jason> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org RC5 client talking to one of the proxys... [12/22/97 15:30:31 GMT] The proxy says: "wE aRE lINUX. yEW wILL bE aSSIMILATED. (surf.newwave.net)" >Network::Error Read Failed 27/0 Exactly -Jason- From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 10:25:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13163 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:25:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13133 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:24:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id KAA03574 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:24:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:24:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199712221824.KAA03574@time.cdrom.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Heh.. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/do-this-m$!.gif From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 11:08:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16900 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:08:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16353 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:03:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03101; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:00:50 GMT Message-ID: <349D837D.31FD5B23@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:00:46 +0000 From: Ruslan Shevchenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. References: <199712221824.KAA03574@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/do-this-m$!.gif pretty !! 1. what is yoiu RAM and what is speed of word ? 2. You bought Windows ???!!! From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 11:18:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17702 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:18:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17666 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:18:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03776; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:13:33 -0800 (PST) To: Ruslan Shevchenko cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:00:46 GMT." <349D837D.31FD5B23@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:13:33 -0800 Message-ID: <3773.882818013@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > 1. what is yoiu RAM and what is speed of word ? 1. 128MB, though you set the amount of memory you want your virtual machine to have in the .bochsrc file. 2. I don't know as I haven't loaded word yet. :) > 2. You bought Windows ???!!! Well... Erm, yeah. Sure, I bought windows. Doesn't everyone? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 11:30:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA18935 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:30:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.uky.edu (smtp.uky.edu [128.163.1.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18927 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from charles@freebox.pharm.uky.edu) Received: from pop.uky.edu (pop.uky.edu [128.163.1.174]) by smtp.uky.edu (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA27544 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mgr.pharm.uky.edu (mgr.pharm.uky.edu [128.163.82.77]) by pop.uky.edu (8.8.4/(UKY.POP.1.4)) with SMTP id OAA20235 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:27:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19971222142731.00990810@freebox.pharm.uky.edu> X-Sender: charles@freebox.pharm.uky.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:27:31 -0500 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Charles A. Wimmer" Subject: Re: Heh.. In-Reply-To: <199712221824.KAA03574@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.wimmer.net/whereamitoday.gif At 10:24 AM 12/22/97 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/do-this-m$!.gif > > -- Charles A. Wimmer o-|cawimm0@uky.edu |Work(606)257-1169 B02 College of Pharmacy|#include |Page(606)231-4710 University of Kentucky |http://web.pharm.uky.edu/~charles Lexington, Kentucky |finger charles@web.pharm.uky.edu for pgp key From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 11:39:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19870 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:39:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19843 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:39:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA21744; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:39:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA29439; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:39:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:39:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199712221939.MAA29439@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-Reply-To: <199712221824.KAA03574@time.cdrom.com> References: <199712221824.KAA03574@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/do-this-m$!.gif How's the performance with your hardware? Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 11:51:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA20715 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:51:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20707 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:51:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA21851; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:51:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA29547; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:50:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:50:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199712221950.MAA29547@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nate Williams , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-Reply-To: <3929.882820095@time.cdrom.com> References: <199712221939.MAA29439@mt.sri.com> <3929.882820095@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Oh, horrible of course. :) > > > > http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/do-this-m$!.gif > > > > How's the performance with your hardware? Dang, it would have been nice to just throw away the MS-DOS partition on my new box (PII-300) and keep is straight FreeBSD. If it could act sort of Pentium-like I could get away with it. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 12:17:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23860 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:17:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23808 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:16:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03933; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:48:15 -0800 (PST) To: Nate Williams cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:39:23 MST." <199712221939.MAA29439@mt.sri.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:48:15 -0800 Message-ID: <3929.882820095@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oh, horrible of course. :) > > http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/do-this-m$!.gif > > How's the performance with your hardware? > > > > Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 12:43:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA25454 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:43:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25363 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:43:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@kalypso.cybercom.net) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07017 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:41:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:41:39 -0500 (EST) From: The Classiest Man Alive To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-Reply-To: <199712221950.MAA29547@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Nate Williams wrote: : Dang, it would have been nice to just throw away the MS-DOS partition on : my new box (PII-300) and keep is straight FreeBSD. If it could act sort : of Pentium-like I could get away with it. What's wrong? Performance not good enough to go to Pure FreeBSD? K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 13:15:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA28281 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:15:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monoid.cs.tcd.ie (monoid.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.38.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA28263 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:15:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from careilly@monoid.cs.tcd.ie) Received: from monoid.cs.tcd.ie (localhost.my.domain [127.0.0.1]) by monoid.cs.tcd.ie (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04664; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:11:28 GMT Message-Id: <199712222111.VAA04664@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. X-Address: Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. X-Phone: +353-(0)1-6081321 In-reply-to: Message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" dated today at 11:48. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4659.882825084.1@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> Content-Description: text Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:11:25 +0000 From: Colman Reilly Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oh, horrible of course. :) But Win 95's performance is intrinsically horrible. How horrible is the performance you're getting relative to normal Win 95 performance? Colman From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 13:45:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00368 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:45:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00342 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:44:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA04334; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:44:18 -0800 (PST) To: Colman Reilly cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:11:25 GMT." <199712222111.VAA04664@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:44:18 -0800 Message-ID: <4331.882827058@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > But Win 95's performance is intrinsically horrible. How horrible is the > performance you're getting relative to normal Win 95 performance? Unusably horrible - it takes a full 5 minutes just to "boot" into the desktop, and woe betide he who actually launches an application. Paint takes about 2 minutes to launch and is only marginally usable once launched. I can only imagine that Word would be a total laugh. Don't forget that bochs is emulating the entire machine, including the instruction set. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 14:03:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01994 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:03:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01941 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:02:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA22725; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:01:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA00231; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:01:41 -0700 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:01:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199712222201.PAA00231@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: The Classiest Man Alive Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-Reply-To: References: <199712221950.MAA29547@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > : Dang, it would have been nice to just throw away the MS-DOS partition on > : my new box (PII-300) and keep is straight FreeBSD. If it could act sort > : of Pentium-like I could get away with it. > > What's wrong? Performance not good enough to go to Pure FreeBSD? I need some applications that only run under Win95, and since Bochs isn't fast enough to 'run' them I will still need to keep the Win95 partition around. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 14:45:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA06004 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:45:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA05954 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:44:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA06184; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:13:57 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19971223091357.59631@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:13:57 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Nadav Eiron Cc: Chuck Robey , Mike Allison , Ruslan Shevchenko , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Nadav Eiron on Mon, Dec 22, 1997 at 09:58:43AM +0200 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 22, 1997 at 09:58:43AM +0200, Nadav Eiron wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > >> As far as opinion goes, I very willing to be proven wrong. I can easily >> get the mm macros to do what you said above, PLUS >> >> Neatly making lists, embedded lists, lists enumerated automatically with >> letters (upper/lower case both automatically available) numbers, Roman >> numerals, and custom designed bullets. I'm not talking about allowing you >> do do indent, I'm talking about doing it for you, remembering how many >> lists are active for you and at what level, what change to make between >> levels (when you end one sublist and go back to the parent) so that the >> numbers and the numbering system you asked for when you invoked the list >> macro works right. > > Well, LaTeX knows how to nest lists correctly, As compared to TeX? There's no problem in this respect with troff. > and you can (pretty easily) redefine its bullets to whatever you > like. Ditto. > The Hebrew version even enumerates with Hebrew letters... No experience here, but it should be trivial. Now writing backwards may not be :-) >> Same thing for chapters, figures, diagrams, etc. Nothing yo have to >> remember, it does it all. I can force this in TeX, but I can't get it all >> done neatly for me. Same thing for displays, like computer listings, and >> all this stuff is available automatically for the table for contents, >> which I don't have to mark things for, because the macros know I want >> things like that marked. > > Just declare a caption for a table or figure, and it will automatically > appear in your \listoffigures or \listoftables. All sectional units > (chapters, sections, subsections, appendices, etc.) automatically appear > in your \tableofcontents. And, combined with BibTeX it makes citations a > piece of cake (well, almost), which is alone worth many hours in the kind > of work I do. troff will do this too. Admittedly, I didn't like the way it did it, so I wrote my own macros, but they were an order of magnitude more powerful than the macros I was able to get to work under TeX. >> How about 6 different types of standard headers, some pages, some not, for >> for formal papers, all sorts of standard things that I want macros to do >> for me. >> >> Tell me that LaTeX does this all for me, not that LateX allows it, and >> I'll be the first to switch. I think that TeX is great, I just don't yet >> see the neat macro support. > > I might be biased, but I really learned to love LaTeX. It's true that most > of what I write is theoretical CS stuff, and I have probably as many greek > letters as latin ones in it, but I won't trade LaTeX for any WYSIWYG > thingy (haven't tried LyX, but Word is certainly not an option), and troff > and friends are too much of a mess to use if you need to write complicated > math. That may be about the only area where TeX does have an advantage. But I find the fact that you need different names for so many characters a real pain. > LaTeX2e has zillions of packages and add ons that will let you do > almost anything Yes, that's true, too. > without working too hard. But I'm not so convinced about that. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 14:51:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA06529 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:51:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from keaggy.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06511 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:51:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by keaggy.canonware.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA11219; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:51:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:51:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Evans To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Colman Reilly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-Reply-To: <4331.882827058@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Don't forget that bochs is emulating the entire machine, including > the instruction set. This means bochs will work on FreeBSD/SPARC, right? =) Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 14:59:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07125 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:59:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06756 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:54:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA04892; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:53:36 -0800 (PST) To: Jason Evans cc: Colman Reilly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:51:25 PST." Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:53:36 -0800 Message-ID: <4889.882831216@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Don't forget that bochs is emulating the entire machine, including > > the instruction set. > > This means bochs will work on FreeBSD/SPARC, right? =) Technically, yes. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 15:32:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA10181 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:32:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA10175 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:32:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atf3r@cs.virginia.edu) Received: from mail.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id ab19982; 22 Dec 97 18:31 EST Received: from mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (mamba-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.18]) by ares.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12606; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:29:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (atf3r@localhost) by mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21945; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:29:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU: atf3r owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:29:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Ruslan Shevchenko , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-Reply-To: <3773.882818013@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > 2. You bought Windows ???!!! > > Well... Erm, yeah. Sure, I bought windows. Doesn't everyone? :-) > > Jordan I hear that if you were born after Aug 1995, Windows is simply considered a birthright. Chances are that your parents have a few superfluous copies. Licenses are renewed by breathing. I guess Jordan wasn't able to get the "under-6-eat-for-free discount". ;-) Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualzation Lab -->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 17:33:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18205 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:33:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [207.173.185.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18180 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:33:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mallison@konnections.com) Received: from cospo.osis.gov (ip185-221.konnections.com [207.173.185.221]) by konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA14221; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:27:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <349F1531.5A7B@konnections.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:34:41 -0700 From: Mike Allison Reply-To: mallison@konnections.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Robey CC: Ruslan Shevchenko , Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chuck: First, I'd say, I fell in love with computer typesetting because of nroff and troff. I thought the macro packages were great and did excellent work, especially on archaic printing gear. As far as macros in TeX, I'd say most of that is available in LaTeX (just a big macro itself, of course). LateX will automatically keep track of numbered lists and embedding but I can't say organically it can do ALL that you said. I'm sure (well mostly) that a TeX programmer could program the macros. LaTex has a number of these built in and you can get in and change and override the defaults to allow for more global flexibility. Just like wordprocessors, computer systems and operating systems however, I'm of the school that what works best for someone works best. I'm sure you could do more/better with troff than LaTeX, unless you wanted to spend a bunch of time re learning. -Mike Chuck Robey wrote: > > > As far as opinion goes, I very willing to be proven wrong. I can easily > get the mm macros to do what you said above, PLUS > > Neatly making lists, embedded lists, lists enumerated automatically with > letters (upper/lower case both automatically available) numbers, Roman > numerals, and custom designed bullets. I'm not talking about allowing you > do do indent, I'm talking about doing it for you, remembering how many > lists are active for you and at what level, what change to make between > levels (when you end one sublist and go back to the parent) so that the > numbers and the numbering system you asked for when you invoked the list > macro works right. > > Same thing for chapters, figures, diagrams, etc. Nothing yo have to > remember, it does it all. I can force this in TeX, but I can't get it all > done neatly for me. Same thing for displays, like computer listings, and > all this stuff is available automatically for the table for contents, > which I don't have to mark things for, because the macros know I want > things like that marked. > > How about 6 different types of standard headers, some pages, some not, for > for formal papers, all sorts of standard things that I want macros to do > for me. > > Tell me that LaTeX does this all for me, not that LateX allows it, and > I'll be the first to switch. I think that TeX is great, I just don't yet > see the neat macro support. > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD > (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 17:38:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18565 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:38:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [207.173.185.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18535 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:37:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mallison@konnections.com) Received: from cospo.osis.gov (ip185-221.konnections.com [207.173.185.221]) by konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA14291; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:32:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <349F1668.380@konnections.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:39:52 -0700 From: Mike Allison Reply-To: mallison@konnections.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: Ruslan Shevchenko , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books References: <349C9323.1A640FA@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> <19971222130017.30553@lemis.com> <349C9CB0.BE5D4BD0@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> <349DEBE0.3AA@konnections.com> <19971222165551.29241@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The TeXBook is good for understanding about TeX sorta like the Boeing 767 owners manual would be good for pilots. Sometimes the forest is lost for the trees..... Not to knock the book, nor the author, you just need a couple of decades to work everything out.... -Mike Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > The one I (still sometimes) use is "TeX for the impatient", by Paul > Abrahams. I still don't think it's the perfect book on TeX, but it'll > save you the hair-tearing frustration engendered by the TeXbook. > > Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 19:27:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24937 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:27:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24905 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:27:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00508; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:51:31 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712230321.NAA00508@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:24:45 -0800." <199712221824.KAA03574@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:51:29 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/do-this-m$!.gif If you can believe it (no open code makes me suspicious), try: http://athena.asms.state.k12.al.us/~mlyohe/dosix/ -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ Remember, the race is long, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and in the end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 19:44:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26003 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:44:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25614 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:38:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00608; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:02:57 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712230332.OAA00608@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:50:56 PDT." <199712221950.MAA29547@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:02:57 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Oh, horrible of course. :) > > > > > > http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/do-this-m$!.gif > > > > > > How's the performance with your hardware? > > Dang, it would have been nice to just throw away the MS-DOS partition on > my new box (PII-300) and keep is straight FreeBSD. If it could act sort > of Pentium-like I could get away with it. When I first spun it up, I was just happy to see that Microsoft got W95 running on 4.77MHz 8086 hardware. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ Remember, the race is long, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and in the end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 19:46:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26222 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:46:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26154 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:45:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00644; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:09:07 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712230339.OAA00644@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Jason Evans , Colman Reilly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:53:36 -0800." <4889.882831216@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:09:07 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Don't forget that bochs is emulating the entire machine, including > > > the instruction set. > > > > This means bochs will work on FreeBSD/SPARC, right? =) > > Technically, yes. :) It'll run on just about anything. Right now, any *nix with g++ working or BeOS. Probably soon NT (?!), and if the real hosebeasts (to pinch a jkh term) do their work right, you will be able to run it *inside* Netscape, as there is a port to Java underway. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ Remember, the race is long, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and in the end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 19:49:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26550 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:49:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mozart.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26538 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:49:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by mozart.canonware.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA05369; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:48:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) X-Authentication-Warning: mozart.canonware.com: jasone owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:48:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Evans To: Mike Smith cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Colman Reilly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-Reply-To: <199712230339.OAA00644@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > and if the real hosebeasts (to > pinch a jkh term) do their work right, you will be able to run it > *inside* Netscape, as there is a port to Java underway. As if it isn't slow enough already... ;^) Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 19:59:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27170 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:59:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27164 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:59:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA07010; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:59:20 -0800 (PST) To: Mike Smith cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:51:29 +1030." <199712230321.NAA00508@word.smith.net.au> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:59:20 -0800 Message-ID: <7006.882849560@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I read this a few months back and didn't believe it. :) > > http://time.cdrom.com/~jkh/do-this-m$!.gif > > If you can believe it (no open code makes me suspicious), try: > > http://athena.asms.state.k12.al.us/~mlyohe/dosix/ > > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ Remember, the race is long, \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ and in the end it's only with yourself. \\ > > From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 21:42:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04488 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:42:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dns.top.net (dns.top.net [204.214.28.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04469 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:41:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from weasniak@geocities.com) From: weasniak@geocities.com Received: from oida.dyn.ml.org (x2-45.top.net [207.239.216.65]) by dns.top.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA17053 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:40:39 -0600 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199712230332.OAA00608@word.smith.net.au> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:39:28 -0000 (GMT) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am trying to build bochs.971216 and it keeps dying, unable to find: ------------------------------------------------ x.cc:20: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory x.cc:21: X11/Xutil.h: No such file or directory x.cc:22: X11/Xos.h: No such file or directory x.cc:23: X11/Xatom.h: No such file or directory x.cc:24: X11/keysym.h: No such file or directory *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. ------------------------------------------------- What component am I missing? I don't have any of the FreeBSD source tree installed (aside from the Kernel). Is this a piece of X or bochs? I know that this isn't a path problem because a: find / -name "keysym.h" brings up nothing. Honestly, I am more interested in compiling something than having this particular program, so if someone would be kind enough to guide me in the direction of finding my problem (not solving it for me, neccesarily) I would be very grateful. If I am not supplying enough info, please let me know. Thanks. ---------------------------------- Daniel Gast: Weasniak@geocities.com From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 23:13:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA15892 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:13:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA15854 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:13:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01603; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:37:01 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712230707.RAA01603@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: weasniak@geocities.com cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:39:28 -0000." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:37:00 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I am trying to build bochs.971216 and it keeps dying, unable to find: > > ------------------------------------------------ > x.cc:20: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory You didn't install the X programmers stuff (X331prog, or whatever version of X matches your OS version). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ Remember, the race is long, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and in the end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 22 23:55:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20388 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:55:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (csnet.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA20375 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:55:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.csa (csd [132.68.32.8]) by csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id JAA27701; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:54:26 +0200 Received: from localhost by csd.csa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA06120; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:55:22 +0200 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:55:22 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Mike Allison cc: Greg Lehey , Ruslan Shevchenko , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books In-Reply-To: <349F1668.380@konnections.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Mike Allison wrote: > The TeXBook is good for understanding about TeX sorta like the Boeing > 767 owners manual would be good for pilots. Sometimes the forest is > lost for the trees..... Haven't read the 767's pilot's manual, but aircraft manuals in general are surprisingly readable and useful. > > Not to knock the book, nor the author, you just need a couple of decades > to work everything out.... If you know the basics, you can actually learn to fly a certain aircraft after reading for about an hour, at most... I wouldn't try it, but it's very unlike learning a complex software package. > > -Mike > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > > > > > The one I (still sometimes) use is "TeX for the impatient", by Paul > > Abrahams. I still don't think it's the perfect book on TeX, but it'll > > save you the hair-tearing frustration engendered bythe TeXbook. > > > > Greg > Nadav From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 09:19:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21483 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:19:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21453 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:19:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01411; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:19:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712231719.JAA01411@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Colman Reilly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:44:18 PST." <4331.882827058@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:19:08 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I wonder about that . Isn't the MAC emulator rather speedy on PCs. Cheers, Amancio > > But Win 95's performance is intrinsically horrible. How horrible is the > > performance you're getting relative to normal Win 95 performance? > > Unusably horrible - it takes a full 5 minutes just to "boot" into the > desktop, and woe betide he who actually launches an application. > Paint takes about 2 minutes to launch and is only marginally usable > once launched. I can only imagine that Word would be a total laugh. > > Don't forget that bochs is emulating the entire machine, including > the instruction set. > > Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 10:11:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA25440 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 10:11:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25412 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 10:11:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@kalypso.cybercom.net) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25082 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:10:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:10:34 -0500 (EST) From: The Classiest Man Alive To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: White Christmas Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, it looks like the children of Boston will get their wish for a White Christmas--about four to six inches of it, easily. Any other places out there that will have a blanket of snow come Christmas Day? K.S. Somerville, MA USA From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 11:05:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29211 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 11:05:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from toth.ferginc.com (toth.ferginc.com [205.139.23.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29183 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 11:04:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from branson@toth.ferginc.com) Received: (from branson@localhost) by toth.ferginc.com (You_Can/Keep_Guessing) id OAA22230; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:03:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971223140340.10679@toth.FergInc.com> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:03:40 -0500 From: Branson Matheson To: The Classiest Man Alive Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas Reply-To: Branson.Matheson@FergInc.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from The Classiest Man Alive on Tue, Dec 23, 1997 at 01:10:34PM -0500 Organization: Ferguson Enterprises, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 23, 1997 at 01:10:34PM -0500, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > Well, it looks like the children of Boston will get their wish for a White > Christmas--about four to six inches of it, easily. Any other places out > there that will have a blanket of snow come Christmas Day? We here in virgina will have 60+ degrees for christmas.. I have my tan lotion and thong handy. - branson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Branson Matheson " If you are falling off of a mountain, Unix System Administrator You may as well try to fly." Ferguson Enterprises, Inc. - Delenn, Mimbari Ambassador ( $statements = ) !~ /Corporate Opinion/; From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 12:45:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06357 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 12:45:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu (x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu [134.84.115.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06130 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 12:40:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu) Received: from x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA02756; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:40:17 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712232040.OAA02756@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu> From: mikk0022@maroon.tc.umn.edu To: Branson.Matheson@FergInc.com cc: The Classiest Man Alive , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:03:40 EST." <19971223140340.10679@toth.FergInc.com> References: <19971223140340.10679@toth.FergInc.com> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:40:17 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:03:40 -0500 Branson Matheson wrote >On Tue, Dec 23, 1997 at 01:10:34PM -0500, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: >> Well, it looks like the children of Boston will get their wish for a White >> Christmas--about four to six inches of it, easily. Any other places out >> there that will have a blanket of snow come Christmas Day? > > We here in virgina will have 60+ degrees for christmas.. I have my > tan lotion and thong handy. Something I will try not to picture ;-) Here in Minnesota, it looks like it will be mid-20s, but no snow at all because it all melted in the 45-degree weather last week :-(. -- Chris Mikkelson mikk0022@maroon.tc.umn.edu U of M Tuba and Student "Life is too short for windows..." '94-present From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 13:31:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10209 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:31:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailman.campbellsci.com ([207.201.118.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10145 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:29:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from travis@campbellsci.com) Received: from gary_roberts ([207.201.118.5]) by mailman.campbellsci.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.0) with SMTP id AAA234 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:28:47 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: travis@campbellsci.com (Gary Travis Roberts) Organization: Campbell Scientific, Inc. To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:31:35 -07:0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: White Christmas In-reply-to: <199712232040.OAA02756@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu> References: Your message of "Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:03:40 EST." <19971223140340.10679@toth.FergInc.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Message-ID: <19971223212847479.AAA234@gary_roberts> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org For us here in Logan, Ut we currently have about 4 inches on the ground with 4 to 6 inches expected within the next two days. The tempature will go up to about 35 F during the day . It will be a nice change from the below zero weather we have had here for the last couple of weeks. G. Travis Roberts KC7HHK MIS Software Engineer / Assistant Network Administrator Campbell Scientific, Inc. travis@campbellsci.com From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 14:03:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA13707 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:03:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA13201 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 13:58:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199712232137.QAA01327@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:35:01 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Branson Matheson cc: The Classiest Man Alive , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas In-Reply-To: <19971223140340.10679@toth.FergInc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Branson Matheson wrote: > On Tue, Dec 23, 1997 at 01:10:34PM -0500, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > > Well, it looks like the children of Boston will get their wish for a White > > Christmas--about four to six inches of it, easily. Any other places out > > there that will have a blanket of snow come Christmas Day? > > We here in virgina will have 60+ degrees for christmas.. I have my > tan lotion and thong handy. > > - branson Bah, I have the worst of both worlds, I will be driving from here (Va near branson) to connecticut. Thank the chief engineer for antilock brakes and front wheel drive. From luke warm rain to cold snow. -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 15:35:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20396 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:35:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20349 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:34:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA08438; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:03:54 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19971224100354.22828@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:03:54 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: The Classiest Man Alive Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from The Classiest Man Alive on Tue, Dec 23, 1997 at 01:10:34PM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 23, 1997 at 01:10:34PM -0500, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > Well, it looks like the children of Boston will get their wish for a White > Christmas--about four to six inches of it, easily. Any other places out > there that will have a blanket of snow come Christmas Day? I haven't checked the weather forecast, but so far it doesn't look like it here. Greg -- Greg Lehey LEMIS grog@lemis.com PO Box 460 Tel: +61-8-8388-8286 Echunga SA 5153 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Australia From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 15:56:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA21856 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:56:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA21845 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:56:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id QAA26403; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:55:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14190; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:55:03 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:55:03 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > Well, it looks like the children of Boston will get their wish for a White > Christmas--about four to six inches of it, easily. Any other places out > there that will have a blanket of snow come Christmas Day? Grumble. I wish. Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. We are supposed to be under lots of snow and cold. We have had only two Christmases without snow in the past 50 years. Instead there is _NO_ snow and I'm walking around in shorts. Give me my snow back! What is the point in living in this place if you don't get snow!?! From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 16:02:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA22274 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:02:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rush.aero.org (rush.aero.org [130.221.192.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA22204 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:02:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@anpiel.aero.org) Received: from anpiel.csd (anpiel.aero.org [130.221.196.66]) by rush.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA13522 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:01:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from anpiel.aero.org by anpiel.csd (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA20324; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:59:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199712232359.PAA20324@anpiel.csd> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:33:54 PST." <19971224100354.22828@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:59:11 -0800 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It seems highly unlikely here in Los Angeles. Although we did get 1/4" of snow in Malibu a few years back. Led to some wild pictures of snowball fights on the beach fought by kids who'd never seen snow. They were dressed kind of wild since they were a) rich and b) didn't have any warm clothes because they'd never needed them before. Mike O'Brien From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 16:27:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA23957 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:27:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA23950 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:27:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01514; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:26:46 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199712240026.WAA01514@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: White Christmas In-Reply-To: from The Classiest Man Alive at "Dec 23, 97 01:10:34 pm" To: ksmm@cybercom.net (The Classiest Man Alive) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:26:43 -0200 (EDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org #define quoting(The Classiest Man Alive) // Well, it looks like the children of Boston will get their wish for a White // Christmas--about four to six inches of it, easily. Any other places out // there that will have a blanket of snow come Christmas Day? Lucky guys in USA, where Xmas happens in the winter. Here at Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, we had 46 degrees celcius for the last two days ! BOY, THIS IS REALLY HOT !!! Especially when you take into account the higher levels of air humidity. Surely, this is an "El Nino Xmas"... :( Jonny PS: For those of you who don't use celsius degrees: 46 Celsius is approximately 115 Fahrenheit. -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 16:30:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA24278 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:30:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gila.doug.net (doug@gw.doug.net [199.185.95.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24268 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:30:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doug@gila.doug.net) Received: (from doug@localhost) by gila.doug.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03935 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:31:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from doug) From: Doug MacKintosh Message-Id: <199712240031.RAA03935@gila.doug.net> Subject: Re: White Christmas To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:31:53 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Well, it looks like the children of Boston will get their wish for a White > Christmas--about four to six inches of it, easily. Any other places out > there that will have a blanket of snow come Christmas Day? Here in Edmonton (Alberta, Canada) we normally enjoy a very white Christmas. Last year at this time there was easily 3 feet of snow on the ground. Not so this year. No snow yet and none forecast. This has never happened before in my 35 year recollection. Though it does happen here about 2% of the time according to a local meteorologist. We are just loving the warm weather (near freezing, plus or minus) but we need the snow to kick us into Christmas mode. All hail El Nino. -- Doug From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 18:57:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04215 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 18:57:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04186 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 18:56:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03303; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 18:56:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712240256.SAA03303@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Doug MacKintosh cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:31:53 MST." <199712240031.RAA03935@gila.doug.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 18:56:12 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > All hail El Nino. I worship the Divine Sun whose recent solar activities is causing this strange weather . Just kidding , however some scientist are claiming that out recent unusual weather is due to solar winds. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 23 21:31:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11121 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:31:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [207.173.185.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11097 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:31:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mallison@konnections.com) Received: from cospo.osis.gov (ip185-205.konnections.com [207.173.185.205]) by konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA11545; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:26:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <34A09EC2.486A@konnections.com> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:33:54 -0700 From: Mike Allison Reply-To: mallison@konnections.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nadav Eiron CC: Greg Lehey , Ruslan Shevchenko , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: teTeX, latex, Lyx Books References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oh, you could be working in TeX in a few minutes with the TeXBuch too, I know I read parts in the car on the way home from the buchstore and tried them out at home. It's just that it's not a good beginner's manual. I hate it when you're at 40,000 ft in a tail spin and you're busy trying to find an answer (or worse, the problem) in the manual while 200 people eagerly await your action.... There's also a manual in the doc section of the TeX directory (if I had the true location, I'd give it, I believe it's called somthing like "A Gentle Introduction to Tex" It's in a DVI, so I printed mine out, probably the first thing I did in TeX. It is a fine manual as well, especially for free... -Mike Eiron wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Mike Allison wrote: > > > The TeXBook is good for understanding about TeX sorta like the Boeing > > 767 owners manual would be good for pilots. Sometimes the forest is > > lost for the trees..... > > Haven't read the 767's pilot's manual, but aircraft manuals in general are > surprisingly readable and useful. > > > > > Not to knock the book, nor the author, you just need a couple of decades > > to work everything out.... > > If you know the basics, you can actually learn to fly a certain aircraft > after reading for about an hour, at most... I wouldn't try it, but it's > very unlike learning a complex software package. > > > > > -Mike > > > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The one I (still sometimes) use is "TeX for the impatient", by Paul > > > Abrahams. I still don't think it's the perfect book on TeX, but it'll > > > save you the hair-tearing frustration engendered bythe TeXbook. > > > > > > Greg > > > Nadav From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 24 03:36:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA01876 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 03:36:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA01862 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 03:36:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA22557 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:09:14 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199712232209.RAA22557@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: White Christmas In-Reply-To: from The Classiest Man Alive at "Dec 23, 97 01:10:34 pm" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:09:14 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Well, it looks like the children of Boston will get their wish for a White > Christmas--about four to six inches of it, easily. Any other places out > there that will have a blanket of snow come Christmas Day? Go 45 miles west. Out here in Pepperell I left in the morning with the "one to three inches of snow changing to rain before stopping" forecast and returned to at least 16 inches of snow on the ground. Rarely is a forecast so wrong while the weather is happening. Happy holidays all. I'm away for two weeks. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 24 03:51:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02655 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 03:51:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA02645 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 03:51:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id MAA13474 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:51:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA17378; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:44:48 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:44:48 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199712241144.MAA17378@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Organization: Private BSD site, Dresden X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E References: From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Subject: Re: White Christmas X-Original-Newsgroups: local.freebsd.chat To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > Well, it looks like the children of Boston will get their wish for a > White Christmas--about four to six inches of it, easily. Any other > places out there that will have a blanket of snow come Christmas > Day? Germany is, except the highlands of course, snow-free these days. Temperatures are around +5 °C here. All in all, there was unusually little snow so far, normally there's a first snowy period by end of November here. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 24 03:53:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02760 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 03:53:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from didda.est.is (ppp-51.est.is [194.144.208.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA02750 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 03:53:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from totii@est.is) Received: from est.is (didda.est.is [192.168.255.1]) by didda.est.is (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00356; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:25:07 GMT (envelope-from totii@est.is) Message-ID: <34A01E22.3916F9C5@est.is> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:25:06 +0000 From: "Þorður Ivarsson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The Classiest Man Alive CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > > Well, it looks like the children of Boston will get their wish for a White > Christmas--about four to six inches of it, easily. Any other places out > there that will have a blanket of snow come Christmas Day? > > K.S. > Somerville, MA > USA I think we, here in Iceland are going to miss the white blanket. No snow here, and no snow in forcast! Merry Christmas everyone! -- Þórður Ívarsson Thordur Ivarsson Rafeindavirki Electronic technician Norðurgötu 30 Nordurgotu 30 Box 309 Box 309 602 Akureyri 602 Akureyri Ísland Iceland --------------------------------------------- FreeBSD has good features, Some others are full of unwanted features! --------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 24 07:01:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA12049 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 07:01:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakky.dyn.ml.org (ppp-25-13.tidalwave.net [208.220.25.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA12041 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 07:00:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@wakky.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from lee@localhost) by wakky.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00304; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:00:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19971224100040.34417@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:00:40 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans To: Jamie Bowden Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: procedure to adjust clock drift? Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <199712240726.XAA07267@dog.farm.org> <199712241354.IAA04331@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199712241354.IAA04331@gatekeeper.itribe.net>; from Jamie Bowden on Wed, Dec 24, 1997 at 08:52:37AM -0500 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat for my own good :)] On Wed, Dec 24, 1997 at 08:52:37AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: > On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Dmitry Kohmanyuk wrote: > > > In article <199712232054.NAA24318@harmony.village.org> you wrote: > > > In message <199712231738.JAA01502@rah.star-gate.com> Amancio Hasty writes: > > > : Does anyone have a procedure to adjust the clock drift in a PC? > > > > > ntp? > > > > > It is already in the tree as xntpd and friends... > > > > of course; the problem with PCs is that they, unlike, say, sparcs, > > can gain few seconds in a day... > > > > I have an SGI Challenge S that just started losing about 40 minutes a day > about a week ago. It's not just a PC problem, though PC clocks tend suck > in general. My SGI's are highly reliable with that one exception, and > that one worries me, but hey, that's what backups are for. Makes me wonder if SGIs use Mostek (now SGS-Thomson) Timekeeper clock/RAM chips, like Sparcs do...when the battery starts to go on a CMOS clock chip like that, you can expect to lose a LOT of time...and eventually it'll just stop updating. -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac Ee34/1/36 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | hcremean (at) vt.edu FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://wakky.dyn.ml.org/~lee | finger me for geek code From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 24 13:07:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00162 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:07:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xmission.xmission.com (root@xmission.xmission.com [198.60.22.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00154 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:07:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from softweyr@xmission.xmission.com) Received: (from softweyr@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.8.7/8.7.5) id NAA22054; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:18:13 -0700 (MST) From: Wes Peters - Softweyr LLC Message-Id: <199712242018.NAA22054@xmission.xmission.com> Subject: Re: White Christmas To: travis@campbellsci.com (Gary Travis Roberts) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:18:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971223212847479.AAA234@gary_roberts> from "Gary Travis Roberts" at Dec 23, 97 02:31:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Welcome from snowy Salt Lake City, Utah USA. When I dragged myself out of bed at 7:45 this morning, I had about 7 inches of new powder snow in the front yard. The morning traffic report had already touted up more than 2,000 traffic accidents in the Salt Lake Valley at 8:00 a.m. ;^( The weather report shows snow gradually tapering off today, and partly cloudy tomorrow. Highs today in the high 20's (F), tomorrow low 30's. Merry Christmas, y'all. Vaya con Dios. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 24 13:46:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA01747 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:46:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01740 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:46:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id WAA02038 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 22:45:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id VAA05670; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 21:02:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19971224210240.09709@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 21:02:40 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas References: <199712241144.MAA17378@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199712241144.MAA17378@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Wed, Dec 24, 1997 at 12:44:48PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3883 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to J Wunsch: > Germany is, except the highlands of course, snow-free these days. > Temperatures are around +5 °C here. All in all, there was unusually Forecasts for tomorrow 25 is 15 °C (!!!) with clouds and rain. What is snow ? :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #19: Tue Dec 9 20:17:10 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 24 14:12:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA03154 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:12:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03150 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:12:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06410; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:12:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712242212.OAA06410@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Ollivier Robert cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Dec 1997 21:02:40 +0100." <19971224210240.09709@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:12:13 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Here, in San Francisco, USA, there is not a single cloud in the sky and the temperature is 56. We look cool with shades and spring outfits 8) Happy Christmas! Amancio & Bettina From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 24 14:22:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA03713 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:22:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from subcellar.mwci.net (subcellar.mwci.net [205.254.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03704 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:22:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbutt@mwci.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by subcellar.mwci.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA01630; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:21:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:21:42 -0600 (CST) From: "James D. Butt" To: Ollivier Robert cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas In-Reply-To: <19971224210240.09709@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA03705 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Germany is, except the highlands of course, snow-free these days. > > Temperatures are around +5 °C here. All in all, there was unusually > > Forecasts for tomorrow 25 is 15 °C (!!!) with clouds and rain. What is snow ? About 30 F here and snow falling about a inch+ a hour about 2 inches so far.. Yippee Santa will be able to come.. :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- James D. Butt 'J.D.' Network Engineer Voice 319-557-8463 Network Operations Center Fax 319-557-9771 MidWest Communications, Inc. Pager 319-557-6347 241 Main St. noc@mwci.net Dubuque, IA 52001 jbutt@mwci.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 25 03:49:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA08412 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 03:49:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dumbwinter.logic.it (mC19.logic.it [195.120.151.119] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA08408 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 03:49:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from molter@logic.it) Received: (qmail 394 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Dec 1997 11:48:08 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 12:48:08 +0100 (MET) From: Marco Molteni To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oh well, following this thread I really *feel* obliged to report the weather conditions here in Italy too! ;-) Here in the north of Italy no snow, sunny day, temperature around 6 degrees C (for all the decimal-impaired out there it's 43 F ;-). But wait, in our islands, Sicilia (Sicily) and Sardegna (Sardinia), the temperature is 17 degrees C (63 F)!!! Imagine a swim with a pretty mermaid... Marco Molteni FreeBSD: from the makers of Internet (http://www.freebsd.org/) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 25 04:26:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA09366 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 04:26:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ching.apana.org.au (root@ching.apana.org.au [202.12.89.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA09362 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 04:26:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin@ching.apana.org.au) Received: from ching.apana.org.au (hatch.ching.apana.org.au [202.12.89.194]) by ching.apana.org.au (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA19694; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:55:29 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <34A25081.11A008D7@ching.apana.org.au> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:54:33 +1030 From: Martin Bull Organization: The first "ching.apana.org.au" member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marco Molteni CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Marco Molteni wrote: > Oh well, following this thread I really *feel* obliged to report the > weather conditions here in Italy too! ;-) We have nice weather here in Sunny south Australia > Here in the north of Italy no snow, sunny day, temperature around 6 > degrees C (for all the decimal-impaired out there it's 43 F ;-). We got to 27 to day and its gonna be 30 tommorow (boxing day) > But wait, in our islands, Sicilia (Sicily) and Sardegna (Sardinia), > the temperature is 17 degrees C (63 F)!!! The temperature in Darwin in a little warmer 28 min 34 maxand that applies as well in the outback beyond the black stump :-) > Imagine a swim with a pretty mermaid... What about a walk with a Jilleroo ? Martin From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 25 08:34:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA20836 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 08:34:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from diabolik.logic.it (diabolik.logic.it [195.120.151.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA20829 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 08:33:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from molter@logic.it) Received: (qmail 10726 invoked from network); 25 Dec 1997 16:33:18 -0000 Received: from mc19.logic.it (HELO dumbwinter.logic.it) (195.120.151.119) by diabolik.logic.it with SMTP; 25 Dec 1997 16:33:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 1035 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Dec 1997 16:32:39 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:32:38 +0100 (MET) From: Marco Molteni To: Martin Bull cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas In-Reply-To: <34A25081.11A008D7@ching.apana.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 25 Dec 1997, Martin Bull wrote: > We have nice weather here in Sunny south Australia mmmh... Australia... one of the places I surely have to visit :-) > > But wait, in our islands, Sicilia (Sicily) and Sardegna (Sardinia), > > the temperature is 17 degrees C (63 F)!!! > > The temperature in Darwin is a little warmer 28 min 34 max and that > applies as well in the outback beyond the black stump :-) hehehe, but *you* are in the southern hemisphere > > Imagine a swim with a pretty mermaid... > > What about a walk with a Jilleroo ? Well, my dictionary says: "jillaroo: (Aus) A woman who is learning to work on a sheep or cattle farm". In our mythology mermaids are beatiful women, so I suppose Jillaroos are beautiful too ;-) It makes me remember of an italian idiom, "andare in camporella". The literal translation is _something_ like "to walk in a grass field", but the real meaning refers to something much more pleasant you can do in a grassland or under a tree with a jillaroo ... ;-) > Martin Marco From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 25 14:36:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA05158 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:36:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA05143 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:36:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id XAA16068 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 23:15:07 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id WAA06827; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:53:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19971225225305.07208@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:53:05 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: latest statistics from 16. Dec ???!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there somthing wrong with the rc5 statistics ??? The latest statistics is from 16.12.97 ... -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 25 15:03:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA06533 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 15:03:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freya.circle.net (freya.circle.net [209.95.95.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06525 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 15:03:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from team-freebsd@circle.net) Received: by freya.circle.net with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 18:03:50 -0500 Message-ID: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A4066665@freya.circle.net> From: Team FreeBSD RC5-64 Effort To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, "'Andreas Klemm'" Subject: RE: latest statistics from 16. Dec ???!!! Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 18:03:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, December 25, 1997 4:53 PM, Andreas Klemm wrote: > Is there somthing wrong with the rc5 statistics ??? > The latest statistics is from 16.12.97 ... Apparently distributed.net didn't quite plan for the response they've gotten, and their somewhat sad NT + IIS + Cold Fusion web site has been sorely taxed. I found an explanation about why stats are not updating at: http://rc5stats.distributed.net/statsmsg.html Stats ARE being recorded, however. After they get back from their holiday, your stats will be updated and reflect all blocks checked during this time period. Thanks! - Troy RC-5 Team FreeBSD Coordinator From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 25 19:57:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19566 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 19:57:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA19561 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 19:57:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from softweyr@xmission.com) Received: from xmission.com [199.104.124.49] by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xlQtX-0004Vd-00; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 20:57:08 -0700 Message-ID: <34A32CA4.12A208BD@xmission.com> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 21:03:48 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mike O'Brien" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas References: <199712232359.PAA20324@anpiel.csd> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike O'Brien wrote: > It seems highly unlikely here in Los Angeles. Although we did > get 1/4" of snow in Malibu a few years back. Led to some wild pictures > of snowball fights on the beach fought by kids who'd never seen snow. > They were dressed kind of wild since they were a) rich and b) didn't have > any warm clothes because they'd never needed them before. Some good friends of mine found themselves stranded in Santa Monica and then San Pedro for 8 years. Peter always said he wanted to see it snow in Los Angeles, so he could go to the top of the Barrington Towers and watch the world's largest game of bumper cars. It snowed in L.A. on Christmas morning, 1988: the day Peter moved from the L.A. area permanently, home to New England. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it! ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 25 20:00:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA19752 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 20:00:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA19656 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 19:59:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from softweyr@xmission.com) Received: from xmission.com [199.104.124.49] by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #4) id 0xlQwF-0004be-00; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 20:59:56 -0700 Message-ID: <34A32D4C.B74B5C7A@xmission.com> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 21:06:36 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis CC: The Classiest Man Alive , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: White Christmas References: <199712240026.WAA01514@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > Here at Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, we had 46 degrees celcius for the last > two days ! BOY, THIS IS REALLY HOT !!! Especially when you take into > account the higher levels of air humidity. > > Surely, this is an "El Nino Xmas"... :( Funny, here in Salt Lake City, El Nino delivered us 9" of snow in my yard, and up to 14" at the ski resorts yesterday. Today was sunny with a high temp of -1 C (30 F). Merry Christmas everyone. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 26 06:23:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA13480 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 06:23:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jupiter.leirianet.pt (jupiter.leirianet.pt [195.23.92.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA13448 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 06:23:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jm@pluriproj.pt) Received: from antares.pluriproj.pt (antares.pluriproj.pt [195.23.92.195]) by jupiter.leirianet.pt (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15810 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:22:49 GMT From: jm@pluriproj.pt (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Monteiro?=) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Partitions Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:22:46 GMT X-PGP-Key-Fingerprint: 2.6.3ia: 4289 7864 7C6F 06C6 BB1E 299E 8FFA DC61 - 5.0: B698 9856 F7DD C74B 657E 0122 9392 9164 F2EE A48B Organization: Leiri@net Reply-To: Jose Monteiro Message-ID: <34a3bd56.1298498@mail.leirianet.pt> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id GAA13469 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi there, Are there any commercial or non-comercial products that allow the resizing of a FreeBSD HD partition without losing any data? José, From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 26 23:03:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA09238 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:03:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp4.portal.net.au [202.12.71.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09219 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:02:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00860; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:42:53 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712251212.WAA00860@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Amancio Hasty cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Colman Reilly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heh.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:19:08 -0800." <199712231719.JAA01411@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:42:53 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I wonder about that . Isn't the MAC emulator rather speedy on PCs. The 68K family is a *shitload* easier to emulate than the x86, and there's more money in making it work well. Also, Bochs is relatively green, and written first for portability by an author talented but still fairly inexperienced in writing for speed. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ Remember, the race is long, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and in the end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 27 11:40:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13464 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 11:40:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13458 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 11:40:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11949; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:40:15 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199712271940.RAA11949@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Hot Hot Hot... To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:40:15 -0200 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, For those of you who still can't believe, here's a snapshot from a local Newspaper in Rio, about last week's hot days: http://www.ravel.ufrj.br/~rodolfo/calor.jpg White Christmas ? Not here... :) Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67