From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 00:59:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA06217 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06201; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.7.3) id JAA08253; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 09:59:54 +0200 (MEST) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199709070759.JAA08253@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-Reply-To: <199709070512.AAA00465@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Sep 7, 97 00:12:32 am" To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 09:59:54 +0200 (MEST) Cc: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, mal@algonet.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to John S. Dyson who wrote: > Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com said: > > > > Why is it necessary to bring this up over and over again. > > > Because I think that people sometimes think that the world changes > from time to time. SCSI is really great in large high-end systems > for sure. EIDE isn't the joke that IDE was 4-5yrs ago though. No, it certainly is not.. Maybe I have to clarify something: Until recently I saw EIDE as a joke, I have always seen SCSI to be _the_ solution. However, the situation has changed ALOT in the last year. The ATA/ATAPI protocol is getting cleaned up (but is still quite messy), they have gotten real usable DMA in there, they are working on overlapped cmd's (not quite there yet, but devices do exist). I have done LOTS of tests on my humble little system which clearly shows that EIDE/ATA4 has come of age... > Here are my dd results for my EIDE 4GB Caviar drive -- NO STRIPING, running > FreeBSD-current: I wonder how it would be to add a Promise EIDE controller, > and run one drive per EIDE interface??? I do have one of those Promise > controllers, and will probably add support in FreeBSD soon. Maybe I'll try > ccd then :-). I have two Maxtor 84000A6's one on each EIDE channel on a ASUS P6NP5, I've played with ccd, ann you can get some VERY interesting numbers out of that combo. I'll have to backup my system someday so I can do it again and provide som numbers... > Sorry that I didn't have time for a scientific measurement, > but I would be interested in running some packaged benchmarks. (BTW, > the command overhead for my 4GB Caviar is about 80-100usecs also... Older > Caviars get about 200-400usecs.) My 2GB Hawk with an NCR controller gets > about 800usecs. IDE isn't a toy any more, but it also isn't for every > application either. Hmm, if we then get ocerlapped cmd to work, we have a real screamer.. No, EIDE is certainly not a toy any more, the times they are achangeing... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 01:45:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08473 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 01:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hobbes.saturn-tech.com (drussell@drussell.internode.net [198.161.228.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08468; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 01:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by hobbes.saturn-tech.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id CAA03732; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 02:45:25 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 02:45:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Doug Russell To: Søren Schmidt cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, mal@algonet.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-Reply-To: <199709070759.JAA08253@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id BAA08469 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 7 Sep 1997, Søren Schmidt wrote: > I have two Maxtor 84000A6's one on each EIDE channel on a ASUS P6NP5, I've > played with ccd, ann you can get some VERY interesting numbers out of > that combo. I'll have to backup my system someday so I can do it again > and provide som numbers... I was going to do it earlier this evening with two WD 3.2 gigs... I just didn't really feel like yanking the good SCSI tape drive from the server to back up the one drive that I'm already using so I could use ccd. :) Argh... Maybe I'll do it tomorrow. Later...... From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 04:15:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA14011 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 04:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA14004 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 04:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA17020; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:15:34 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA06798; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:14:24 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970907131421.GM65280@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:14:21 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Anthony.Kimball@East.Sun.COM Subject: Re: -UCOMPAT_43 problem References: <199709032100.QAA03566@compound.east.sun.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199709032100.QAA03566@compound.east.sun.com>; from Tony Kimball on Sep 3, 1997 16:00:42 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Tony Kimball wrote: > > cvs diff sys/net/if.c > Index: sys/net/if.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /work/repository/FreeBSD/src/sys/net/if.c,v > retrieving revision 1.51 > diff -r1.51 if.c > 662c662,663 > < ifp)); > --- > > ifp, > > p)); A context or unidiff would have been better... anyway, applied, thanks! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 07:40:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA20711 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr09.primenet.com (tlambert@usr09.primenet.com [206.165.6.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20693 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA08754 for current@freebsd.org; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:40:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709071440.HAA08754@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Bug in committed pci/if_de.c To: current@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:40:00 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The committed if_de.c incorrectly references FreeBSD version information. This is incorrect, because version information is already encoded in the act of commision to the source tree. One does not check a driver out of -current, and then compile it in an old tree... one checks out the updated driver from the old tag. That's what "stable" is for. It's also incorrect because it's using __FreeBSD__, which is a compiler compile-time constant, and has nothing to do with the version of FreeBSD that is being target by the compile, only (really) which version of FreeBSD the compiler was compiled on. In point of fact, without two "build world"'s, the first build of the tools will take place on the older version of OS (say 2), and have the older number, even when the build world is (supposedly) a newer version (say 3). This is less of a problem for people who track -current, and do so with full world builds, but for people who upgrade via "build world" only at release time, it's an issue. Anyway, since I like to cross-compile and keep a -stable older machine, it's an issue for me. Arguably, there should be no non-contrib code (and that, in user space) that even references __FreeBSD__ at all, and the gcc/cpp values should come from somewhere else. Somewhere configurable, prefferably. Maybe a sysctl that defaults to the real version and can be lowered manually? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 07:45:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA20952 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr09.primenet.com (tlambert@usr09.primenet.com [206.165.6.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20941; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA08900; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:45:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709071445.HAA08900@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:45:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, sos@sos.freebsd.dk, mal@algonet.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199709070512.AAA00465@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Sep 7, 97 00:12:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Why is it necessary to bring this up over and over again. > > > Because I think that people sometimes think that the world changes > from time to time. SCSI is really great in large high-end systems > for sure. EIDE isn't the joke that IDE was 4-5yrs ago though. Damn. I can't pass up that straight-line... "OK, then what kind of joke *is* EIDE?" Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 07:47:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA21037 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr09.primenet.com (tlambert@usr09.primenet.com [206.165.6.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA21028 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA08816; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:44:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709071444.HAA08816@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) To: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net (Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:44:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: sos@sos.freebsd.dk, mal@algonet.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199709070407.VAA04801@MindBender.serv.net> from "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" at Sep 6, 97 09:07:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The only advantage with SCSI these days > >seems to be the ability to add more than 4 devices easily, and > >to add them externally of the machine. But then again you have to > >pay solid bucks to get that :) > > Why is it necessary to bring this up over and over again. Because the EIDE folks are bound and determined to pound a stake into the heart of the SCSI "vampire" evry time they see it, whether it's spotted in a coffin somewhere, or sitting on the French Riveria under a beach umbrella sipping Pina Colada's. 8-) 8-). (For the logic-impaired, if it's on the beach in daylight, it's not a vampire) Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 11:56:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05846 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 11:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05839; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 11:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.7.3) id UAA17993; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:56:37 +0200 (MEST) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199709071856.UAA17993@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-Reply-To: <199709071445.HAA08900@usr09.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Sep 7, 97 02:45:30 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:56:37 +0200 (MEST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, mal@algonet.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Terry Lambert who wrote: > > > > > > Why is it necessary to bring this up over and over again. > > > > > Because I think that people sometimes think that the world changes > > from time to time. SCSI is really great in large high-end systems > > for sure. EIDE isn't the joke that IDE was 4-5yrs ago though. > > Damn. I can't pass up that straight-line... > > "OK, then what kind of joke *is* EIDE?" Guess what I find is the joke ??? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 12:58:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA07901 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 12:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA07893 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 12:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA06469 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:58:55 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.6/brasil-1.2) with UUCP id VAA24535 for current@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:58:41 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.7/keltia-uucp-2.9) id OAA03061; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:31:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970907143101.34175@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:31:01 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) References: <199709070512.AAA00465@dyson.iquest.net> <199709070759.JAA08253@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76 In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C199709070759=2EJAA08253=40sos=2Efreebsd=2Edk=3E=3B_fro?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?m_S=F8ren_Schmidt_on_Sun=2C_Sep_07=2C_1997_at_09=3A59=3A5?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?4AM_+0200?= X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3592 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Søren Schmidt: > situation has changed ALOT in the last year. The ATA/ATAPI > protocol is getting cleaned up (but is still quite messy), they > have gotten real usable DMA in there, they are working on > overlapped cmd's (not quite there yet, but devices do exist). Why the Hell wasting time turning ATA/ATAPI into another SCSI thingy, but different ? Why no going with SCSI ? > I have done LOTS of tests on my humble little system which > clearly shows that EIDE/ATA4 has come of age... Why reinventing the wheel I'd say ? If SCSI was sold like IDE drives are, they'd get cheaper too... I must miss something. There was a time where SCSI was for high-end systems and IDE for smaller ones. Life was simple. Now they're turning IDE into SCSI. WHY ? -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #29: Tue Aug 26 21:05:09 CEST 1997 From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 12:58:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA07917 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 12:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA07898 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 12:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA06472 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:58:55 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.6/brasil-1.2) with UUCP id VAA24534 for current@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:58:41 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.7/keltia-uucp-2.9) id OAA03040; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:21:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970907142109.16988@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:21:09 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) References: <199709061909.VAA25891@kairos> <199709062140.XAA07333@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76 In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C199709062140=2EXAA07333=40sos=2Efreebsd=2Edk=3E=3B_fro?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?m_S=F8ren_Schmidt_on_Sat=2C_Sep_06=2C_1997_at_11=3A40=3A2?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?4PM_+0200?= X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3592 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Søren Schmidt: > as bad as people think. The only advantage with SCSI these days > seems to be the ability to add more than 4 devices easily, and > to add them externally of the machine. Even if it is now the only advantage, it is still one hell of a big one. Until recently I'd 6 disks, 2 streamer/DAT and one CD-ROM on 2 controllers with still 5 ID to put things on. Now I removed 2 small disks to make some room after putting my ASUS PCI-875 in place... ncr0: T:L Vendor Device Rev Speed Max Wide Tags 0:0 IBM DCAS-34330W S65A 200.0 20.0 16 8 2:0 IBM DORS-32160 WA6A 200.0 20.0 8 8 4:0 TANDBERG TDC 3600 =08: ? 20.0 ? - ncr1: T:L Vendor Device Rev Speed Max Wide Tags 1:0 MICROP 1624-07MZ1077801 HZ2P 100.0 10.0 8 8 2:0 CONNER CFP1080S 3939 100.0 10.0 8 8 5:0 HP HP35480A 1009 50.0 10.0 8 - 6:0 MATSHITA CD-ROM CR-8004 1.1f 19.0 10.0 8 - > But then again you have to pay solid bucks to get that :) At 80 US$ for a SC-200 (NCR-810) and 140 US$ for a PCI-875 Ultra Wide card (in France), that's not too hard. The IDE disks are cheaper that's right but still won't allow crappy interfaces anywhere near my machine :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #29: Tue Aug 26 21:05:09 CEST 1997 From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 17:19:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA20259 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pandora.hh.kew.com (root@kendra.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.53.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA20250 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonata (sonata.hh.kew.com [192.195.203.135]) by pandora.hh.kew.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25765; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <341344B3.57D10484@kew.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 20:20:03 -0400 From: Drew Derbyshire Organization: Kendra Electronic Wonderworks X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ollivier Robert CC: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199709070512.AAA00465@dyson.iquest.net> <199709070759.JAA08253@sos.freebsd.dk> <19970907143101.34175@keltia.freenix.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ollivier Robert wrote: > I must miss something. There was a time where SCSI was for high-end systems > and IDE for smaller ones. Life was simple. Now they're turning IDE into > SCSI. WHY ? Because you can take an EIDE drive and put it on a system with 1990 vintage IDE controller, and only take a performance hit. Upward compatibility means a lot to any user. > Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr This reminds me of the "Turning PC into workstations" line at the top of the FreeBSD home page. To beat NT Workstation at it's own game, you have beat on it's own hardware. Do you want to turn the maximum number of systems (embracing the most common PC hard drive and CD-ROM types) into workstations? Or make them _think_ their EIDE hard drive and ATAPI CD-ROM _limits_ them from turning their PC into a FreeBSD Workstation? To me, the entire "SCSI rules" tone some people use reminds of Mac users, and I don't want think most people on this list wish for Bill Gates to want or need to bail out FreeBSD. :-) -ahd- -- Internet: ahd@kew.com Voice: 617-279-9812 "MS-DOS didn't get as bad as it is overnight -- it took over ten years of careful development." - dmeggins@aix1.uottawa.ca From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 18:35:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24749 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.serv.net (mindbender.serv.net [205.153.153.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24737 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09715; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709080134.SAA09715@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Drew Derbyshire cc: Ollivier Robert , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 07 Sep 97 20:20:03 -0400. <341344B3.57D10484@kew.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 18:34:18 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Ollivier Robert wrote: >> I must miss something. There was a time where SCSI was for high-end systems >> and IDE for smaller ones. Life was simple. Now they're turning IDE into >> SCSI. WHY ? >Because you can take an EIDE drive and put it on a system with 1990 >vintage IDE controller, and only take a performance hit. Upward >compatibility means a lot to any user. I think it's more because EIDE is cheaper, and there are a helluva lot of cheap EIDE drives out there. Plus, some people aren't willing to spend the extra on SCSI, but still want the performance. IDE has always been an exercise in compromises. EIDE has just hacked on a lot of turbo-chargers and accelerators, making it much better at competing with SCSI on the low end. However, even UltraIDE (or whatever it's called) is still an exercise in compromises, cost being the primary motivating factor (i.e. get the most performance possible, while still keeping withing these cost-effective parameters). Unfortunately, the extra quality and performance that SCSI can potentially bring, commonly comes at a higher price. >To me, the entire "SCSI rules" tone some people use reminds of Mac >users, and I don't want think most people on this list wish for Bill >Gates to want or need to bail out FreeBSD. :-) The difference is there are solid technical facts, and a large high-end Unix workstation market, to back up SCSI's superiority. The Mac on the other hand... :-) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net Contract software development for Windows NT, Windows 95 and Unix. Windows NT and Unix server development in C++ and C. --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 19:14:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26823 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broon.off.connect.com.au (broon.off.connect.com.au [203.63.69.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26818 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from connect.com.au (ggm@localhost) by broon.off.connect.com.au with ESMTP id MAA26959 (8.8.5/IDA-1.6); Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:11:38 +1000 (EST) To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: Drew Derbyshire , Ollivier Robert , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 07 Sep 1997 18:34:18 MST." <199709080134.SAA09715@MindBender.serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 12:11:33 +1000 Message-ID: <26957.873684693@connect.com.au> From: George Michaelson Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At last some sanity! Nobody doubts that there are specific preferences when you have a blank sheet to purchase. What mattered to me (when I first posted about the DMA issues with the IDE driver) was an *existing* config which was (E)IDE. I am very happy that people think server systems, especially where disk-count is greater than 2 should be on SCSI. I am very happy that people doing reliable or mission-critical spec their machines to use best-practice hardware and software. I am also happy that device driver writers are looking at poor saps like me who have blown this years computer-budget on an unexpected car transmission failure, and can't walk away from their (E)IDE investment for a while longer. FreeBSD *has* to be about the best possible service in the worst imaginable hardware as well as the best possible service in the dream configuration. The exceptions should be as minimal as possible: 386 is the lowest CPU, MCA may be somewhat 'interesting' (Noting a NetBSD project which makes it work) but nobody deliberately makes it non-functional on middle-of-the-road boxen. Otherwise its a rich playground and not UNIX for the masses. cheers -George -- George Michaelson | connect.com.au pty/ltd Email: ggm@connect.com.au | c/o AAPT, Phone: +61 7 3834 9976 | level 8, the Riverside Centre, Fax: +61 7 3834 9908 | 123 Eagle St, Brisbane QLD 4000 From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 19:20:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27124 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA27119 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id MAA10666; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:18:13 +1000 Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA24914; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:48:06 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970908114806.25653@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:48:06 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Cc: Drew Derbyshire , Ollivier Robert , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) References: <341344B3.57D10484@kew.com> <199709080134.SAA09715@MindBender.serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199709080134.SAA09715@MindBender.serv.net>; from Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com on Sun, Sep 07, 1997 at 06:34:18PM -0700 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Sep 07, 1997 at 06:34:18PM -0700, Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: > >> Ollivier Robert wrote: >>> I must miss something. There was a time where SCSI was for high-end systems >>> and IDE for smaller ones. Life was simple. Now they're turning IDE into >>> SCSI. WHY ? > >> Because you can take an EIDE drive and put it on a system with 1990 >> vintage IDE controller, and only take a performance hit. Upward >> compatibility means a lot to any user. > > I think it's more because EIDE is cheaper, and there are a helluva lot > of cheap EIDE drives out there. Plus, some people aren't willing to > spend the extra on SCSI, but still want the performance. Certainly the ability to use a 7 year old IDE controller, when your modern motherboard includes two modern ones, is not a factor. > IDE has always been an exercise in compromises. EIDE has just hacked > on a lot of turbo-chargers and accelerators, making it much better at > competing with SCSI on the low end. However, even UltraIDE (or > whatever it's called) is still an exercise in compromises, cost being > the primary motivating factor (i.e. get the most performance possible, > while still keeping withing these cost-effective parameters). > Unfortunately, the extra quality and performance that SCSI can > potentially bring, commonly comes at a higher price. The annoying thing is that the price isn't that much higher. It's just because the volume market is (E)IDE that the prices difference is exaggerated. >> To me, the entire "SCSI rules" tone some people use reminds of Mac >> users, and I don't want think most people on this list wish for Bill >> Gates to want or need to bail out FreeBSD. :-) > > The difference is there are solid technical facts, and a large > high-end Unix workstation market, to back up SCSI's superiority. The > Mac on the other hand... :-) If technical superiority meant anything to the market, we wouldn't be in the mess we are today. Greg From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 20:01:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29239 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smoke.marlboro.vt.us (smoke.marlboro.vt.us [198.206.215.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29226 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cgull@localhost) by smoke.marlboro.vt.us (8.8.7/8.8.7/cgull) id XAA17185; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709080300.XAA17185@smoke.marlboro.vt.us> From: john hood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Bug in committed pci/if_de.c In-Reply-To: <199709071440.HAA08754@usr09.primenet.com> References: <199709071440.HAA08754@usr09.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.31 under Emacs 19.34.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > It's also incorrect because it's using __FreeBSD__, which is a compiler > compile-time constant, and has nothing to do with the version of FreeBSD > that is being target by the compile, only (really) which version of > FreeBSD the compiler was compiled on. Well...is there a way to determine which version or variant of the kernel's buing built? There's one new define that keeps wd.c from being portable between 2.2.2 and -current, and I'd like to find something a tad more elegant than '#if defined'... --jh -- John Hood cgull@smoke.marlboro.vt.us Predictably, they all eventually wandered away, rubbing their bruises and brushing mud out of their hair. Some went off to work for the ESA, launching much smaller rockets into low orbits, while others elected to sit on their front porches drinking Jim Beam from the bottle and launching bottle rockets from the empties. [Jordan Hubbard] From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 20:07:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29610 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:07:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr07.primenet.com (tlambert@usr07.primenet.com [206.165.6.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29602 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:07:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA16822; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:06:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709080306.UAA16822@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) To: ahd@kew.com (Drew Derbyshire) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:06:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <341344B3.57D10484@kew.com> from "Drew Derbyshire" at Sep 7, 97 08:20:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Because you can take an EIDE drive and put it on a system with 1990 > vintage IDE controller, and only take a performance hit. Upward > compatibility means a lot to any user. I have a 1994 vintage IDE controller. It is a CMD640B. I take a bit more than a performance hit. Unfortunately, the thing is welded to my motherboard. I have a 1990 vintage IDE controller. It has no buffers between it and the ISA connector. I take a bit more than a performance hit. Sure, it's possible to work around the first (not the second, though) in software. Between the CMD640B and the flawed Intel IDE chipset, we are talking about more than 60% of the E/IDE systems in existance. > This reminds me of the "Turning PC into workstations" line at the top of > the FreeBSD home page. To beat NT Workstation at it's own game, you > have beat on it's own hardware. Do you want to turn the maximum number > of systems (embracing the most common PC hard drive and CD-ROM types) > into workstations? Or make them _think_ their EIDE hard drive and ATAPI > CD-ROM _limits_ them from turning their PC into a FreeBSD Workstation? The E/IDE CDROM on channel 2 of my CDM640B system will not function correctly under NT. I can make if function under Windows 95 only by going into the "Advanced..." button of the "Performance" tab of the "Properties" page for "My Computer" and disabling protected mode disk interrupt handling and 32 bit Protected mode disk drivers (my BIOS on that machine does not have the necessary option to workaround the bug, and it's not Flashable). > To me, the entire "SCSI rules" tone some people use reminds of Mac > users, and I don't want think most people on this list wish for Bill > Gates to want or need to bail out FreeBSD. :-) This is not an issue of the software refusing to work with some hardware; it is an issue of some hardware being flawed by design. In some cases there are workarounds. In others, the hardware is simply too flawed. DOS works because, as a real mode non-reeentrant interrupt handler, it doesn't issue commands so fast that a unbuffered data latch on an ISA bus doesn't cause it problems. You could achieve the same thing in BSD by hitting the "Turbo" button to turn your 200MHz Pentime Pro into an 8MHz AT. Or FreeBSD could work around that in software, too, by putting in buzz-loops to the effect that the machine turns into an 8MHz AT "only" during disk accesses. As far as a "bailout" by Bill of FreeBSD, I'm sure Jordan would be happy to go public and sell him $180,000,000 in non-voting stock in FreeBSD, Inc., just as Bill has $180,000,000 in non-voting stock in Apple, Inc.. 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 20:15:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00209 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr07.primenet.com (tlambert@usr07.primenet.com [206.165.6.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00200 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA17179; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:15:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709080315.UAA17179@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Bug in committed pci/if_de.c To: cgull@smoke.marlboro.vt.us (john hood) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:15:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199709080300.XAA17185@smoke.marlboro.vt.us> from "john hood" at Sep 7, 97 11:00:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It's also incorrect because it's using __FreeBSD__, which is a compiler > > compile-time constant, and has nothing to do with the version of FreeBSD > > that is being target by the compile, only (really) which version of > > FreeBSD the compiler was compiled on. > > Well...is there a way to determine which version or variant of the > kernel's buing built? There's one new define that keeps wd.c from > being portable between 2.2.2 and -current, and I'd like to find > something a tad more elegant than '#if defined'... Commit one variant on the 2.2.2 branch and the other on the -current branch. IMO, it is topologically equivalent to use an #ifdef and the implicit #ifdef of the particular tag you checkout. As far as the question: I don't know. It seems that the OS, not the compiler, should be the source of compile-time version information about the OS. Putting it in the gcc and cpp sources is broken no matter how you look at it. As to the "right way", well, there's my sysctl kludge suggestion, but that's a kludge. I think maybe the correct way might be to drop the things in as .m4 and process them to one branch or the other, while doing joint maintenance on the .m4; a bad, if UNIX tradtitionalist, soloution. If the problem is really getting this big with maintaining backward compatability with -release, perhaps it's time to upgrade the version dependent features that you are switching, as well as upgrading single driver files? The only other real alternative would be a new release; that doesn't seem very viable at this point in time. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 21:41:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04041 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA04034 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.60 #1) id 0x7vdl-00043f-00; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:41:33 -0600 Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) To: current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Sep 1997 12:11:33 +1000." <26957.873684693@connect.com.au> References: <26957.873684693@connect.com.au> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 22:41:33 -0600 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk speaking of IDE, does anybody know of a good SCSI target that lets you plug in 1 or more IDE drives to it? I have some older unix oriented hardware that I'd love to put boatloads of disk on, yet find IDE's price advantage so much greater than SCSI... Since I can almost get 2x the disk space with IDE than for similar SCSI (I know the SCSI is a little faster/better higher quality, which is why I said similar), this might be a viable option. Unfortunately, thinking about what it would take to build such a beast makes me fear that it would be >> $200. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 7 23:24:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA11221 for current-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.serv.net (mindbender.serv.net [205.153.153.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA11215 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA10617; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709080623.XAA10617@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Greg Lehey cc: Drew Derbyshire , Ollivier Robert , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 08 Sep 97 11:48:06 +0930. <19970908114806.25653@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:23:52 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warning: In continuing this discussion, I risk going off into a tangent. I feel this is still information relevant to people planning on new hardware purchases. However, I think we have firmly established the players and the facts in this matter, and if you don't care to read more, skip this thread now. >> I think it's more because EIDE is cheaper, and there are a helluva lot >> of cheap EIDE drives out there. Plus, some people aren't willing to >> spend the extra on SCSI, but still want the performance. [...] >> IDE has always been an exercise in compromises. EIDE has just hacked >> on a lot of turbo-chargers and accelerators, making it much better at >> competing with SCSI on the low end. However, even UltraIDE (or [...] >The annoying thing is that the price isn't that much higher. It's >just because the volume market is (E)IDE that the prices difference is >exaggerated. Not entirely. Yes, there are _some_ drives where you can find identical models in EIDE and SCSI form. And they usually end up being slightly more expensive in SCSI form, where the largest part of the difference may simply be due to the relative manufacturing volues. But the majority of the SCSI market tends to be "higher-end" drives, in completely different models. For example, more mass-market oriented drives (read higher tolerances/ lower build quality) that spin 4500-5400 RPM at the max, making up most of the EIDE drive market. In the SCSI market, 7200 RPM is becoming common, and 5400 RPM is almost the bottom-line, with 10000 RPM drives now available. What's more, EIDE's potential is commonly compared with SCSI using EIDE hardware that exists in a laboratory, or is just starting to hit the market, and comparing to SCSI hardware that is widely available. For example, UltraIDE, with 33MB/s. Almost none of the motherboards currently in existance support this mode. Yet, drives are already being marketed this way. Compared with Ultra-Wide SCSI, at 40MB/s, which is widely available, and has been for a few years. I'm not blaming anyone, or saying this is an industry consiracy -- this is just the way things have played out, and it's good to be educated on what's going on. My final note is that over the last four years or so, I have had more (E)IDE drives fail (3) than SCSI drives (1) in my own systems. And I have owned more SCSI drives (11) than (E)IDE drives (5). Holding the drives in my hand, I can tell the difference in build quality. My experience is that there truly is a difference in the quality of components that go into each kind of drive. So, to end my little dissertation, I just want to say that I _don't_ think EIDE drives are "evil". I don't think this has to be a religeous issue. Which is also to minimize those who smugly say "Now, who said SCSI was better?" or "Now, who said SCSI was faster?" I just did. But if you fully understand the merits of each, and you still think EIDE is the best use of your money, then good for you. Personally, I only put EIDE drives in my Win95/DOS/Game machine, because SCSI just wouldn't give me any advantage there. But my NT box is entirely SCSI driven, just as my NetBSD box is. I don't currently have a FreeBSD box running, but when I did, it was also SCSI. One final ironic note of interest: for some time, I had one EIDE drive in my NetBSD system, which was used as an emergency backup boot, in case something on my main SCSI setup got toasted, or some other catastrophy. I have five SCSI drives in that system, three of which are older than the EIDE drive. The SCSI drives get used for all system activity, so are tickled constantly by cron, daily scripts, email, software builds, etc., with several minutes of non-stop load at least once per day. The EIDE drive just sat there, only having to receive a tarball once each day, and rotate old backup tarballs. I just had to send the EIDE drive back for repair/replacement because it developed a severe mechanical failure. All the SCSI drives are still running strong. The standard qualifiers apply. This is one guys' experience, on a single system, with a small number of drives. Your mileage and karma may vary. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net Contract software development for Windows NT, Windows 95 and Unix. Windows NT and Unix server development in C++ and C. --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 02:18:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA20046 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 02:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA20041 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 02:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA02729; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 02:16:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709080916.CAA02729@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: Greg Lehey , Drew Derbyshire , Ollivier Robert , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:23:52 PDT." <199709080623.XAA10617@MindBender.serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 02:16:51 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" : > The standard qualifiers apply. This is one guys' experience, on a > single system, with a small number of drives. Your mileage and karma > may vary. > I have to say the same thing over here. IDE disk drives over here tend to go belly up and my scsi drives tend to work a lot longer. Of course, there will be others who will have the opposite experience and I am merely stating my personal experience both at home and at work. Amancio From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 05:41:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28060 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 05:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pandora.hh.kew.com (root@kendra.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.53.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28047; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 05:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonata (sonata.hh.kew.com [192.195.203.135]) by pandora.hh.kew.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28947; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:39:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3413F242.BDBA1225@kew.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 08:40:34 -0400 From: Drew Derbyshire Organization: Kendra Electronic Wonderworks X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" CC: Greg Lehey , Ollivier Robert , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Build quality for the mass market (was: lousy disk perf. under cpu load) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199709080623.XAA10617@MindBender.serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As our topic drifts off to sea, moving this to -CHAT (I hope) Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: > My final note is that over the last four years or so, I have had more > (E)IDE drives fail (3) than SCSI drives (1) in my own systems. And I > have owned more SCSI drives (11) than (E)IDE drives (5). Holding the > drives in my hand, I can tell the difference in build quality. My > experience is that there truly is a difference in the quality of > components that go into each kind of drive. If they ever build SCSI for the mass market, the quality would drop as well. The example (I can't say proof) is ATAPI CD-ROM drives. I've had a NEC Multispin (2x) external SCSI for four years, it's still doing service downstairs on one of my servers. After they drop the big one, the only things to survive will be the cockroaches and that drive. I don't expect the NEC IDE CD-ROM drive shipped as part of my NEC system to survive, I've already lost three off a sister system in just over a year. Like Michael, I can just look and heft the drives and see the differences. One can even see the difference between cheap $99 2x internal drives of 1995 vintage and the 6x drives of today -- junk, all of newer ones, as builders compete on price. So it's not the interface which makes EIDE drives fail, it's quantity pricing driving down quality. -ahd- -- Internet: ahd@kew.com Voice: 617-279-9810 How do you make Windows faster? Throw it harder! From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 07:43:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA04911 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haywire.csuhayward.edu (bsampley@haywire.csuhayward.edu [134.154.5.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA04903 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by haywire.csuhayward.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA01316; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:47:33 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:47:32 -0700 (PDT) From: BURTON SAMPLEY To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-Reply-To: <19970908114806.25653@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If technical superiority meant anything to the market, we wouldn't be > in the mess we are today. > > Greg > If technical superiority meant anything to the market then Micro$oft wouldn't exist today! Reminds me of someone's .sig saying "Buy lemmings, buy" Sorry, I just couldn't resist jumping in here, even though my comments might not be welcome. Burton From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 10:03:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12243 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from george.arc.nasa.gov (george.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.194.142]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12235 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:03:16 -0700 (PDT) From: lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov Received: (from lamaster@localhost) by george.arc.nasa.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15180 for current@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709081700.KAA15180@george.arc.nasa.gov> To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty writes: |> I have to say the same thing over here. IDE disk drives over here |> tend to go belly up and my scsi drives tend to work a lot longer. |> |> >From The Desk Of "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" : |> > The standard qualifiers apply. This is one guys' experience, on a I think the choir is in complete agreement on all the major points discussed: SCSI is usually higher quality; SCSI usually has higher performance; EIDE is usually cheaper; when the performance and quality are about the same, usually the cost is about the same, too; SCSI requires an extra controller, but, cheap NCR/Symbios controllers (e.g. $80) make this mostly moot; most of us use IDE/EIDE at least sometimes on legacy hardware, and even, for legacy-compatibility reasons, actually buy EIDE occasionally, and so IDE/EIDE support is important anyway; expandability, flexibility, tagged queueing, IRQ conservation, etc. etc. all favor SCSI; cost, Wintel compatibility favor EIDE. And now for the obligatory confessional: Speaking personally, I have always ended up regretting every dime I have spent on (E)IDE, as opposed to SCSI, as rational as it seemed at the moment I did it for perfectly good at the time legacy-compatibility reasons. So, if I were recommending to someone, I would recommend SCSI. (I have also regretted every ISA card, and wish there were a "standard" PCI sound card.) Of course, IMHO, personal opinion, YMMV. Now then: There is one issue I would like to return to, and that is the question originally posed: lousy disk performance under *some* circumstances. (Which circumstances?) "Mats Lofkvist" originally asked the question in this thread, but, I have observed a problem, too, and, the interesting thing is that not everybody seems to experience the problem in the same way. In my case, I am interested in improving "make world" time. I'm not in a position to reconfigure at the moment, but, eventually, I will try switching Buslogic and NCR controllers and see if the NCR driver's tagged queueing speeds things up. I will also add a separate /usr/obj partition/filesystem which is expendable (mounted -o asynch,noatime), which reportedly also speeds things up tremendously. But, I'm also wondering if there are any kernel config options or startup config options wrt filesystems, scheduler, or anything else that might explain the large differences between what I and some others experience and what some of you wizards out there are getting (e.g. 1 to 1.5 hr elapsed time for "make world")? Or is the /usr/obj filesystem the only big optimization available? -Hugh LaMaster Corrections welcome. Hugh LaMaster, M/S 258-5, ASCII Email: hlamaster@mail.arc.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Or: lamaster@nas.nasa.gov Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000 No Junkmail: USC 18 section 2701 Phone: 415/604-1056 Disclaimer: Unofficial, personal *opinion*. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 10:40:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15047 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (Ilsa.StevesCafe.com [205.168.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15040; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00992; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:40:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709081740.LAA00992@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 From: Steve Passe To: smp@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: does it fix things? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 11:40:48 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, So far I only have 1 report (it fixes the ip_fw lkm panic) on the fix John committed saturday. It fixes both John's and my test case, how about the rest of you? I had so many reports the last 3 weeks that I am just filing that pile, believing most if not all are related to the fix. If after applying the most recent code you still have problems re-post them. PS: I will be out of the office most of the week, so I wont be doing much on SMP... -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 11:40:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA22135 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA22113 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:40:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.7.3) id UAA02904; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:38:50 +0200 (MEST) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199709081838.UAA02904@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-Reply-To: <199709081700.KAA15180@george.arc.nasa.gov> from "lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov" at "Sep 8, 97 10:00:02 am" To: lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:38:50 +0200 (MEST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov who wrote: > > But, I'm also wondering if there are any kernel config options > or startup config options wrt filesystems, scheduler, or anything > else that might explain the large differences between what I and > some others experience and what some of you wizards out there are > getting (e.g. 1 to 1.5 hr elapsed time for "make world")? Or is > the /usr/obj filesystem the only big optimization available? No, I run on a stock -current system, no fancy mods or anything.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 11:45:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA23039 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlantis.nconnect.net (root@atlantis.nconnect.net [207.227.50.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23027; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arabian (arabian.microxp.com [207.227.65.13]) by atlantis.nconnect.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05630; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:50:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:52:10 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCBC5E.67384560.randyd@nconnect.net> From: Randy DuCharme Reply-To: "randyd@nconnect.net" To: "'Steve Passe'" , "smp@FreeBSD.ORG" , "'randy@microxp.com'" Cc: "current@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: does it fix things? Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:52:09 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Monday, September 08, 1997 12:41 PM, Steve Passe [SMTP:smp@csn.net] wrote: > Hi, > > So far I only have 1 report (it fixes the ip_fw lkm panic) on the fix > John committed saturday. It fixes both John's and my test case, > how about the rest of you? > The only problem I had ( that I knew about ) was with the daemon screen saver causing the fatal trap 12. This *has* been fixed on my machine(s)! --- Randall D DuCharme Novell, Microsoft and UNIX Systems Engineer Networking Service & Support Computer Specialists BSD/OS Authorized Resellers & 414-253-9998 414-253-9919 (fax) BSDI Internet Success Partners From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 12:02:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA25891 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.scsn.net (scsn.net [206.25.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25879 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rhiannon.scsn.net ([208.133.153.19]) by mail.scsn.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-41950U6000L1100S0) with ESMTP id AAA120 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:03:13 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.scsn.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA01127; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19970908150201.65505@scsn.net> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:02:01 -0400 From: "Donald J. Maddox" To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PPP cannot open port 3000 after 'make world' Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk After last night's 'make world': # ppp -auto scsn Error: Tcp: Can't open socket 3000: No password in ppp.secret So I cannot telnet to port 3000 to do anything with PPP. Naturally, if I *do* create ppp.secret, _then_ I cannot use most of PPP's control commands... From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 12:44:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA29242 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (ken@mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29220; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ken@localhost) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA21832; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:43:55 -0600 (MDT) From: Kenneth Merry Message-Id: <199709081943.NAA21832@pluto.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: does it fix things? In-Reply-To: <199709081740.LAA00992@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> from Steve Passe at "Sep 8, 97 11:40:48 am" To: smp@csn.net (Steve Passe) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:43:55 -0600 (MDT) Cc: smp@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steve Passe wrote... > So far I only have 1 report (it fixes the ip_fw lkm panic) on the fix > John committed saturday. It fixes both John's and my test case, > how about the rest of you? > > I had so many reports the last 3 weeks that I am just filing that pile, > believing most if not all are related to the fix. If after applying the > most recent code you still have problems re-post them. > > PS: > I will be out of the office most of the week, so I wont be doing > much on SMP... It seems to fix things for me. My box made it through a complete make world, no problem. One caveat, though -- I'm not using any lkm's. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 12:51:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA29640 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29623 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4) with UUCP id UAA26800 for FreeBSD.ORG!current; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:42:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:41:22 +0100 X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970908114806.25653@lemis.com> References: <199709080134.SAA09715@MindBender.serv.net>; from Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com on Sun, Sep 07, 1997 at 06:34:18PM -0700 <341344B3.57D10484@kew.com> <199709080134.SAA09715@MindBender.serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:36:16 +0100 To: current@FreeBSD.ORG From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 3:18 +0100 8/9/97, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Sun, Sep 07, 1997 at 06:34:18PM -0700, Michael L. VanLoon -- >HeadCandy.com wrote: >[...] >> Unfortunately, the extra quality and performance that SCSI can >> potentially bring, commonly comes at a higher price. > >The annoying thing is that the price isn't that much higher. It's >just because the volume market is (E)IDE that the prices difference is >exaggerated. In the UK at least, it pays to check prices of SCSI drives with the Macmongers; prices tend to be much closer to (E)IDE levels because they shift a *much* higher proportion of SCSI. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 13:04:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00499 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:04:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ic.net (qmailr@srv2b.ic.net [152.160.72.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA00490 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 29873 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1997 20:03:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lurch.rickl.org) (152.160.108.56) by unknown with SMTP; 8 Sep 1997 20:03:59 -0000 Received: from lurch.rickl.org (rickl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurch.rickl.org (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA02074; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709082003.QAA02074@lurch.rickl.org> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:03:08 -0400 (EDT) From: rickl@ic.net Reply-To: rickl@ic.net Subject: Re: does it fix things? To: smp@csn.net cc: smp@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199709081740.LAA00992@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 8 Sep, Steve Passe was accused of saying: > Hi, > > So far I only have 1 report (it fixes the ip_fw lkm panic) on the fix > John committed saturday. It fixes both John's and my test case, > how about the rest of you? > > rest of message deleted...... Steve, All is better here as well. On a somewhat unrelated issue, I noticed that the serial link in interrupted during audio processing (e.g. when FvwmAudio is trying to play something). Is this a further manifestation of the IDE disk access/sio problems I noticed last week?? Is this only a problem on my system?? Has anyone else noticed it?? Rick From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 13:39:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02384 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.detroit.mi.ameritech.net (mpdr0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.243]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02377 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ameritech.net (pm098-21.dialip.mich.net [35.9.14.62]) by mailhost.detroit.mi.ameritech.net (8.8.3/8.8.3-AIMS) with ESMTP id QAA28390 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3414625B.A47402C9@ameritech.net> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 16:38:52 -0400 From: Adam McDougall X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: problem with w and who Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When I have several users logged in, w and who only show 2 users total, me and a fake user called ttyp3... like this: bsdx: {23} w 4:37PM up 41 mins, 2 users, load averages: 0.33, 0.23, 0.11 USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE WHAT user1 v0 - 3:59PM 37 xinit /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xi ttyp3 :0.0 4:00PM 41 - I am using 3.0-current and I have had this problem for several days, maybe the whole time ive had 3.0, im not sure, but I have cvsup'ed and make'd world almost every day this week and the problem has not gone away. Thanks, From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 14:21:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA04965 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 14:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from forbidden-donut.anet-stl.com (forbidden-donut.anet-stl.com [209.83.128.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA04953 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 14:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (doogie@localhost) by forbidden-donut.anet-stl.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04645; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:17:22 GMT Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:17:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Jason Young To: Adam McDougall cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: problem with w and who In-Reply-To: <3414625B.A47402C9@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Adam McDougall wrote: > When I have several users logged in, w and who only show 2 users total, > me and a fake user called ttyp3... like this: > > bsdx: {23} w > 4:37PM up 41 mins, 2 users, load averages: 0.33, 0.23, 0.11 > USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE WHAT > user1 v0 - 3:59PM 37 xinit > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xi > ttyp3 :0.0 4:00PM 41 - > > I am using 3.0-current and I have had this problem for several days, > maybe the whole time ive had 3.0, im not sure, but I have cvsup'ed and > make'd world almost every day this week and the problem has not gone > away. Thanks, Isn't this in a FAQ somewhere? You're using some program (most likely an xterm from what you've got running there) that is trashing utmp because it is compiled for 8 character user names, and 3.0-CURRENT uses 16 (or was it 15?). Either way, recompile your programs that use utmp. Jason Young ANET Chief Network Engineer -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBNBQlEqInE6ybC66VAQHZBQL/e8D2bLTmUcPqfo1GlCgMAKsg396hYRC4 nRRZ+uglT+e1FL7mt8kp4Kd21AbkxVkaERPjW7ySBbmS5+Yx6gXbwFj+yfdGIgka IaIeev6csNeUPI2xOUDYZbBDz6nXWV/u =mMNk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 15:02:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08151 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr09.primenet.com (tlambert@usr09.primenet.com [206.165.6.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08144 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA13260; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:02:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709082202.PAA13260@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: problem with w and who To: mcdougall@ameritech.net (Adam McDougall) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:02:18 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3414625B.A47402C9@ameritech.net> from "Adam McDougall" at Sep 8, 97 04:38:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > When I have several users logged in, w and who only show 2 users total, > me and a fake user called ttyp3... like this: > > bsdx: {23} w > 4:37PM up 41 mins, 2 users, load averages: 0.33, 0.23, 0.11 > USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE WHAT > user1 v0 - 3:59PM 37 xinit > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xi > ttyp3 :0.0 4:00PM 41 - > > I am using 3.0-current and I have had this problem for several days, > maybe the whole time ive had 3.0, im not sure, but I have cvsup'ed and > make'd world almost every day this week and the problem has not gone > away. Thanks, Rebuild lbkvm, then rebuild w, ps, and so on. The structure sizes have changed, and are treated as if they were kernel interfaces. These are bugs in the ps, w, who, and other libkvm using commands, IMO. I think they should all use procfs instead. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 15:56:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA12075 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:56:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.algonet.se (angel.algonet.se [194.213.74.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12064 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 26719 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1997 22:56:06 -0000 Received: from kairos.algonet.se (HELO kairos) (mal@194.213.74.18) by angel.algonet.se with SMTP; 8 Sep 1997 22:56:06 -0000 Received: (mal@localhost) by kairos (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) id AAA04008; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 00:56:05 +0200 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 00:56:05 +0200 Message-Id: <199709082256.AAA04008@kairos> From: Mats Lofkvist To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There is one issue I would like to return to, and that is the question > originally posed: lousy disk performance under *some* circumstances. > (Which circumstances?) This is also what I really was interested in, I have heard enough about the pros and cons of scsi and eide :-) Few seem to be able to repeat my data, so here is some more information. I tested reading (and writing were possible) small blocks (4KB) on all my devices tonight. With iozone and bonnie I don't see anything really alarming except that the bonnie seek rate drops significantly when a "loader" is running (*). But dd from (and to) all my devices show the same results counting the number of transfers per second (= # pci interrupts / s): rst0 r rst0 w sd0 rsd0 sd1 rsd1 cd0 rcd0 unloaded 283 294 3700 2600 1134 1049 900 460 loaded 23 22 50 26 24 23 25 22 rst0 is a sony sdt7000 dat tape on the ncr sd0 is a quantum viking w on the aic7880 sd1 is a quantum capella on the ncr cd0 is a pioneer dr-u12x on the ncr Looks like user processes are limited on the number of interrupts/xfers handled per second when loaded. Kernel code (like the file system) doesn't seem to have that problem, except for the low seek rate. Is there any configuration params that I might have screwed up? Dmesg output and config file appended. _ Mats Lofkvist mal@algonet.se (*) Doing an ls in a non-cached directory with a background process running is enough to convince me this really affects "real" performance, you almost can count the number of seeks on the disk. Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Tue Aug 12 03:02:44 CEST 1997 root@garm.mal.algonet.se:/usr/src/sys/compile/GARM CPU: Pentium Pro (198.67-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x619 Stepping=9 Features=0xfbff,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV> real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) avail memory = 63733760 (62240K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 fxp0 rev 1 int a irq 10 on pci0:6 fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:49:bb:9f chip1 rev 1 on pci0:7:0 chip2 rev 0 on pci0:7:1 ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:9 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs (ahc0:0:0): "QUANTUM VIKING 4.5 WSE 8808" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 4345MB (8899737 512 byte sectors) vga0 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:11 ncr0 rev 18 int a irq 10 on pci0:17 (ncr0:0:0): "QUANTUM VP32210 81H8" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access sd1(ncr0:0:0): 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8) 2103MB (4308352 512 byte sectors) (ncr0:2:0): "PIONEER CD-ROM DR-U12X 1.06" type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(ncr0:2:0): CD-ROM cd0(ncr0:2:0): asynchronous. can't get the size (ncr0:4:0): "SONY SDT-7000 0195" type 1 removable SCSI 2 st0(ncr0:4:0): Sequential-Access st0(ncr0:4:0): 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8) density code 0x13, 512-byte blocks, write-enabled Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface psm0 at 0x60-0x64 irq 12 on motherboard psm0: device ID 0 fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in bt0: disabled, not probed. npx0 flags 0x1 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface joy0 at 0x201 on isa joy0: joystick changing root device to sd0a IP packet filtering initialized, divert disabled, logging limited to 100 packets/entry machine "i386" cpu "I486_CPU" cpu "I586_CPU" cpu "I686_CPU" ident GARM maxusers 20 options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] options SCSI_DELAY=0 #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options FAILSAFE #Be conservative options USERCONFIG #boot -c editor options VISUAL_USERCONFIG #visual boot -c editor options MFS #Memory File System options SYSVSHM options "SHMMAXPGS=1024" # 4Mb of sharable memory options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options IPFIREWALL #firewall options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about # dropped packets options "IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT=100" #limit verbosity config kernel root on wd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 # A single entry for any of these controllers (ncr, ahb, ahc, amd) is # sufficient for any number of installed devices. controller ncr0 controller ahc0 controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector bt_isa_intr controller scbus0 device sd0 device od0 #See LINT for possible `od' options. device st0 device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr options FAT_CURSOR # start with block cursor # Mandatory, don't remove device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" flags 0x1 irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device psm0 at isa? disable port "IO_KBD" conflicts tty irq 12 vector psmintr # ethernet device fxp0 device joy0 at isa? port "IO_GAME" pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device sl 1 pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter pseudo-device speaker #Play IBM BASIC-style noises out your speaker pseudo-device vn 1 #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device) pseudo-device snp 3 #Snoop device - to look at pty/vty/etc.. # KTRACE enables the system-call tracing facility ktrace(2). # This adds 4 KB bloat to your kernel, and slightly increases # the costs of each syscall. options KTRACE #kernel tracing From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 19:06:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24429 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr07.primenet.com (tlambert@usr07.primenet.com [206.165.6.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24423 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00939; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:06:09 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709090206.TAA00939@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) To: mal@algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 02:06:08 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199709082256.AAA04008@kairos> from "Mats Lofkvist" at Sep 9, 97 00:56:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > There is one issue I would like to return to, and that is the question > > originally posed: lousy disk performance under *some* circumstances. > > (Which circumstances?) > > This is also what I really was interested in, I have heard enough > about the pros and cons of scsi and eide :-) > > Few seem to be able to repeat my data, so here is some more information. [ ... ] > FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Tue Aug 12 03:02:44 CEST 1997 [ ... ] > ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:9 > ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs > (ahc0:0:0): "QUANTUM VIKING 4.5 WSE 8808" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 4345MB (8899737 512 byte sectors) > ncr0 rev 18 int a irq 10 on pci0:17 > (ncr0:0:0): "QUANTUM VP32210 81H8" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd1(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access > sd1(ncr0:0:0): 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8) > 2103MB (4308352 512 byte sectors) It is unclear to me whether you are having problems on the disk on the NCR controller or the Adaptec controller. The fact that you are running 2.2.2 does not fill me with hope; I was under the impression that 2.2.2 did not support tagged command queueing on the NCR, at least, and perhaps not the Adaptec as well. This would mean that you could have only a single concurrent operation outstandaing at one time -- which would certaily explain the performance problems you are seeing. You will have to check the list archives, but I believe there were also a number of issues with the 53c810a. I have several 53c810b's, so I can't test for you. My only Adaptec at this point in time is the 1742B in my EISA machine; it's not a fair comparison, since the bus is overclocked. I have gotten fabulous perforamnce figures on my NCR 53c810b under 3.0, but I've been using a 7200 RPM 9G IBM SCSI drive there lately, and a Quantum simply would not stack up to that (5.5ms avg access). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 8 22:19:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03667 for current-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tigger.chameleon.com (root@ts20-14.vcr.iSTAR.ca [204.191.154.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03641 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tigger.chameleon.com (teisler@localhost.chameleon.com [127.0.0.1]) by tigger.chameleon.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA15044 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3414DE3B.41C67EA6@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:27:23 -0700 From: Troi Eisler Organization: Chameleon Consulting Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; U; BSD/OS 3.0 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: join Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk join From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 01:43:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA06061 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from micron.efn.org (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA06052 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mini@localhost) by micron.efn.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA03043; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:43:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970909014343.23842@micron.efn.org> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:43:43 -0700 From: Jonathan Mini To: current@freebsd.org Subject: options DEVFS_ROOT breaks boot Reply-To: Jonathan Mini Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76e X-files: The Truth is Out There. Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have been playing with devfs recently and tried to use the DEVS_ROOT option (automatically mount devfs on /dev) but it break the boot if the kernel. The kernel panics from : ffs_mountroot: can't setup bdevvp for root panic: cannot mount root. The same thing happens with an MFS_ROOT kernel also. (I was working on one when I tried the DEVFS_ROOT option originally) Hoping to attach a patch in a pr, I poked around in the kernel (find . -name "*.c" | xargs grep DEVFS_ROOT | more) and it looks like the problem is that when DEVFS_ROOT is defined, a bdevvp in miscfs/devfs/devfs_tree is used in replacement of the bdevvp in kern/vfs_subr.c. In and adventurous spirit, I just removed the #ifdefs to swap the functions, so that the DEVFS_ROOT option only adds the d flag to init upon boot. Now DEVFS_ROOT works. I am curious, why was DEVFS_ROOT swaping the functions at all? Anybody want my patches for that wonder, or do you want to generate them yourselves. :) -- Jonathan Mini (j_mini@efn.org) Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693 Eugene, Or 97405 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 03:39:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00305 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00299 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA25024 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:39:08 -0700 (PDT) To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Final "heads up!" for next 3.0 SNAP CD from Walnut Creek CDROM Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 03:39:07 -0700 Message-ID: <25020.873801547@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The next 3.0 SNAPshot on CDROM will be done in the 15th of September if I can get everyone to sort of agree not to break -current on that day. ;-) Last chance to tidy up before the scheduled event! Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 05:25:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA04967 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 05:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.algonet.se (tomei.algonet.se [194.213.74.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA04959 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 05:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 27396 invoked from network); 9 Sep 1997 12:25:43 -0000 Received: from kairos.algonet.se (HELO kairos) (mal@194.213.74.18) by tomei.algonet.se with SMTP; 9 Sep 1997 12:25:43 -0000 Received: (mal@localhost) by kairos (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) id OAA14331; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:25:42 +0200 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:25:42 +0200 Message-Id: <199709091225.OAA14331@kairos> From: Mats Lofkvist To: tlambert@primenet.com CC: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199709090206.TAA00939@usr07.primenet.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Tue, 9 Sep 1997 02:06:08 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It is unclear to me whether you are having problems on the disk on the NCR controller or the Adaptec controller. Both, I got limited to ~20 user process xfers/s under load on all devices including the single disk on the motherboard adaptec. The fact that you are running 2.2.2 does not fill me with hope; I was under the impression that 2.2.2 did not support tagged command queueing on the NCR, at least, and perhaps not the Adaptec as well. This would mean that you could have only a single concurrent operation outstandaing at one time -- which would certaily explain the performance problems you are seeing. But can lack of tagged command queueing explain the combination of good performance unloaded and bad with one or more cpu bound processes? You will have to check the list archives, but I believe there were also a number of issues with the 53c810a. I have several 53c810b's, so I can't test for you. I have no problem with issues with the 810a affecting devices connected to it, but is it probable it could affect devices connected to the adaptec? _ Mats Lofkvist mal@algonet.se PS How do I find out if tagged queueing is supported? Maybe time to try -current? From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 11:34:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA26085 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr04.primenet.com (tlambert@usr04.primenet.com [206.165.6.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26054 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA28493; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:34:14 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709091834.LAA28493@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) To: mal@algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:34:13 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199709091225.OAA14331@kairos> from "Mats Lofkvist" at Sep 9, 97 02:25:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But can lack of tagged command queueing explain the combination of good > performance unloaded and bad with one or more cpu bound processes? Yes, I believe so: swapping. But you need to know for sure if it is supported in your version, and I'm not the one to ask. Look at the archives, or wait for Stefan to post. > I have no problem with issues with the 810a affecting devices connected > to it, but is it probable it could affect devices connected to the adaptec? No. The problems were specific to the 810a. > PS How do I find out if tagged queueing is supported? Maybe time > to try -current? Look in the archives or look in the archives to get Stefan's address, and ask him. Or if you CVSup/CTM code, look at the CVS logs. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 12:12:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA28367 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cod.nosc.mil (root@cod.nosc.mil [128.49.4.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28361 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.49.16.48] (aegis.nosc.mil [128.49.16.48]) by cod.nosc.mil (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27203; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:11:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: gshaffer@cod.nosc.mil Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:09:19 -0700 To: current@FreeBSD.Org From: Greg Shaffer Subject: Re: Make and SMP - what can be done ? Cc: gshaffer@cod.nosc.mil Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.Org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Around the middle of August there was some discussion on how to make 'make world' operate safely in a parallel mode. There were even some patches to make, *.mk and Makefiles to support this. I applied these patches to my system and was very impressed with the performance improvement. Did these patches ever get roles into the source tree, it would be a shame to loss them. Thanks Greg Shaffer From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 12:23:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA28852 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.uniserve.com (dns1-van.uniserve.com [204.244.163.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28845 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.uniserve.com [204.244.210.252] by mail.uniserve.com with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0x8VvL-0002RP-00; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:26:07 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:15:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom To: Terry Lambert cc: Mats Lofkvist , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-Reply-To: <199709091834.LAA28493@usr04.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > But can lack of tagged command queueing explain the combination of good > > performance unloaded and bad with one or more cpu bound processes? > > Yes, I believe so: swapping. But you need to know for sure if it > is supported in your version, and I'm not the one to ask. Look > at the archives, or wait for Stefan to post. The NCR driver has supported tags for a LONG time, probably since before 2.1 The ahc driver has supported tages for a LONG time, since about 2.1.5 ... > > PS How do I find out if tagged queueing is supported? Maybe time > > to try -current? > > Look in the archives or look in the archives to get Stefan's address, > and ask him. Or if you CVSup/CTM code, look at the CVS logs. "ncrcontrol" for the NCR driver. Also, see ncrcontrol man page. The ahc driver lists tag support during boot. Also see ahc man page. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Tom From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 12:42:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA00259 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr03.primenet.com (tlambert@usr03.primenet.com [206.165.6.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00253 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr03.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA27984; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:42:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709091942.MAA27984@usr03.primenet.com> Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) To: tom@uniserve.com (Tom) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:42:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, mal@algonet.se, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tom" at Sep 9, 97 12:15:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The NCR driver has supported tags for a LONG time, probably since > before 2.1 It used to be off without a compile time option for a long time; but I'm not sure about 2.2. > The ahc driver has supported tages for a LONG time, since about 2.1.5 He has a quantum drive on the AHC. > "ncrcontrol" for the NCR driver. Also, see ncrcontrol man page. This is a good point. It could be off on the drive, or the drive could not support it without a firmware update. 8-|. > The ahc driver lists tag support during boot. Also see ahc man page. His listed SCB's, but not tags, if my crecollection is right... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 12:49:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA00778 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00772 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA25430; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:48:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:48:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709091948.NAA25430@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: mal@algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-Reply-To: <199709091834.LAA28493@usr04.primenet.com> References: <199709091225.OAA14331@kairos> <199709091834.LAA28493@usr04.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > PS How do I find out if tagged queueing is supported? Maybe time > > to try -current? > > Look in the archives or look in the archives to get Stefan's address, > and ask him. Or if you CVSup/CTM code, look at the CVS logs. According to the log messages, tagged queing is disabled if FAILSAFE is defined (which it is for GENERIC), but it appears to have been supported from the start. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 13:51:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA04998 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr06.primenet.com (tlambert@usr06.primenet.com [206.165.6.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04986 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA09777 for current@freebsd.org; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:51:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709092051.NAA09777@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Minor patch to vfs_op_init() behaviour To: current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:51:50 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here are some minor VFS initialization patches. These patches remove the ** array sizing problem for *vfs_op_descs[]. They also move the initialization of the vfs_opv_numops to an agregate value dependent on the vnode_if.src instead of on a traversal of the vfs_op_descs[] array (that's how it was done). They correct a misleading comment about how dynamic the adding of VOPS actually is. Armed with this information, someone will be more likely to fix it some day now... They pave the way in kern/vfs_init.c:vfs_op_init() for removing the extra function call overhead associatied with each VOP call (yes, I know it's inlined, but the assignments of arguments to structure elements for an auto variable structure can go away in the near future. This overhead occurs for each and every VOP_ call). This intent is also commented. Hopefully *this* change is small enough for people to wrap their heads around, and it will make it in... Context diff follows signature. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Index: kern/vfs_init.c =================================================================== RCS file: /b/cvstree/ncvs/src/sys/kern/vfs_init.c,v retrieving revision 1.26 diff -c -r1.26 vfs_init.c *** 1.26 1997/08/02 14:31:44 --- vfs_init.c 1997/09/09 20:40:47 *************** *** 70,82 **** extern struct vnodeop_desc *vfs_op_descs[]; /* and the operations they perform */ - /* - * This code doesn't work if the defn is **vnodop_defns with cc. - * The problem is because of the compiler sometimes putting in an - * extra level of indirection for arrays. It's an interesting - * "feature" of C. - */ - static int vfs_opv_numops; /* * A miscellaneous routine. --- 70,75 ---- *************** *** 104,109 **** --- 97,108 ---- * listing those new operations Ficus adds to NFS, all without modifying the * NFS code. (Of couse, the OTW NFS protocol still needs to be munged, but * that is a(whole)nother story.) This is a feature. + * + * Without an explicit reserve area, however, you must replace vnode_if.c + * and vnode_if.h when you do this, or you will be derefrencing of the + * end of vfs_op_descs[]. This is a flaw in the use of a structure + * pointer array rather than an agregate to define vfs_op_descs. So + * it's not a very dynamic "feature". */ void vfs_opv_init(struct vnodeopv_desc **them) *************** *** 197,216 **** int i; DODEBUG(printf("Vnode_interface_init.\n")); /* * Set all vnode vectors to a well known value. */ for (i = 0; vfs_opv_descs[i]; i++) *(vfs_opv_descs[i]->opv_desc_vector_p) = NULL; /* ! * Figure out how many ops there are by counting the table, ! * and assign each its offset. */ ! for (vfs_opv_numops = 0, i = 0; vfs_op_descs[i]; i++) { ! vfs_op_descs[i]->vdesc_offset = vfs_opv_numops; ! vfs_opv_numops++; ! } ! DODEBUG(printf ("vfs_opv_numops=%d\n", vfs_opv_numops)); } /* --- 196,219 ---- int i; DODEBUG(printf("Vnode_interface_init.\n")); + DODEBUG(printf ("vfs_opv_numops=%d\n", vfs_opv_numops)); /* * Set all vnode vectors to a well known value. */ for (i = 0; vfs_opv_descs[i]; i++) *(vfs_opv_descs[i]->opv_desc_vector_p) = NULL; /* ! * assign each op to its offset ! * ! * XXX This should not be needed, but is because the per ! * XXX FS ops tables are not sorted according to the ! * XXX vnodeop_desc's offset in vfs_op_descs. This ! * XXX is the same reason we have to take the hit for ! * XXX the static inline function calls instead of using ! * XXX simple macro references. */ ! for (i = 0; i < vfs_opv_numops; i++) ! vfs_op_descs[i]->vdesc_offset = i; } /* Index: kern/vnode_if.sh =================================================================== RCS file: /b/cvstree/ncvs/src/sys/kern/vnode_if.sh,v retrieving revision 1.11 diff -c -r1.11 vnode_if.sh *** 1.11 1997/02/22 09:39:36 --- vnode_if.sh 1997/09/09 19:32:47 *************** *** 397,402 **** --- 397,404 ---- a.a_bp = bp; return (VCALL((bp)->b_vp, VOFFSET(vop_bwrite), &a)); } + + extern int vfs_opv_numops; END_OF_SPECIAL_CASES cat << END_OF_SPECIAL_CASES >> $CFILE *************** *** 457,459 **** --- 459,469 ---- } }' < $SRC >> $CFILE + cat << END_OF_NUMOPS_CODE >> $CFILE + + /* + * the -1 is to account for the NULL + * XXX is the NULL still necessary? I don't think so... + */ + int vfs_opv_numops = (sizeof(vfs_op_descs)/sizeof(struct vnodeop_desc *)) - 1; + END_OF_NUMOPS_CODE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 14:48:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08535 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limes.NIC.DTAG.DE (limes.NIC.DTAG.DE [194.25.1.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08510 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kronos.NIC.DTAG.DE (kronos.NIC.DTAG.DE [194.25.1.92]) by limes.NIC.DTAG.DE (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA05059 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:44:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from Reineke.Malepartus.de (Reineke.Malepartus.de [194.25.4.66]) by kronos.NIC.DTAG.DE (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id XAA16125 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:47:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from Reineke.Malepartus.de (localhost.Malepartus.de [127.0.0.1]) by Reineke.Malepartus.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA05735 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:47:39 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <199709092147.XAA05735@Reineke.Malepartus.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 From: Burkard Meyendriesch Subject: freebsd-stable where to start? To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: bum@malepartus.de X-organization: The home of Reineke Fuchs X-GPOS: 52.0844N 7.9081E X-phone: +49 5484 96097 X-pgp-fingerprint: DF 83 04 CD B5 D1 10 43 57 4C AD 9A B1 02 28 17 X-face: "[-;]oI+8gP9>*J%knDN8d%DuhvJS2Lj4L\bRb7gz(pcT?2Zh6_Vam_6csAum3$<&lhAFd^ jt|!&Ut1C~Vg*E/q}+#cbFg-GU]c.bB8Ad,L'W$'9{^0y'AzM4#hS[C[F-1'|O;Kg3Vrq5q6dsU*TmJ@}+QPM\ b[^9Rhd,UoMpRpd5k[X=h.Dom*kbT`cNQ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 23:47:39 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA08512 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm sorry to disturb you with a stupid question but I couldn't find the answer in the FreeBSD Handbook. I installed FreeBSD 2.2.1 from CD. Now I want to follow the freebsd-stable tree. I subscribed the mailing list ctm-src-2_2-fast and got all deltas from src-2.2.0400xEmpty til now (src-2.2.0425.gz). But I don't know what ist the correct starting point from my installed release 2.2.1; what is the first delta I have to apply? Could anybody of you please give me a hint? Thanks Burkard -- * Burkard Meyendriesch ___ bum@malepartus.de * * Hauptstrasse 45 ________|________ tel +49 5484 96097 * * D-49219 Glandorf-Schwege 0 52 05'05"N 07 54'29"E * * PGP-Fingerprint DF 83 04 CD B5 D1 10 43 57 4C AD 9A B1 02 28 17 * From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 14:48:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08670 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA08647 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de ([134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA09249 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:48:21 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.8.7/8.6.9) id WAA01606; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:57:34 +0200 (CEST) X-Face: " Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:57:33 +0200 From: Stefan Esser To: Terry Lambert Cc: Mats Lofkvist , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) References: <199709082256.AAA04008@kairos> <199709090206.TAA00939@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74 In-Reply-To: <199709090206.TAA00939@usr07.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Tue, Sep 09, 1997 at 02:06:08AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sep 9, Terry Lambert wrote: > > ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:9 > > ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs > > (ahc0:0:0): "QUANTUM VIKING 4.5 WSE 8808" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 4345MB (8899737 512 byte sectors) > > ncr0 rev 18 int a irq 10 on pci0:17 > > (ncr0:0:0): "QUANTUM VP32210 81H8" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > sd1(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access > > sd1(ncr0:0:0): 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8) > > 2103MB (4308352 512 byte sectors) > > It is unclear to me whether you are having problems on the disk on the > NCR controller or the Adaptec controller. > > The fact that you are running 2.2.2 does not fill me with hope; I was > under the impression that 2.2.2 did not support tagged command queueing > on the NCR, at least, and perhaps not the Adaptec as well. Ahemm, the NCR driver was the first SCSI driver in FreeBSD that handled tagged commands, back in, well, it existed in the driver kit for FreeBSD-1.1.x as of spring 1994 ... > You will have to check the list archives, but I believe there were also > a number of issues with the 53c810a. I have several 53c810b's, so I > can't test for you. My only Adaptec at this point in time is the 1742B > in my EISA machine; it's not a fair comparison, since the bus is overclocked. Ahemm, you are sure you got a 53c810b ??? Those were never built, AFAIK ;-) The 53c810 was the original NCR SCSI chip. It has been replaced by the 53c810a (which shares the PCI ID with the 53c810, but with a revision ID >= 0x10). The "a" version offers the same features as the 53c860, except for Fast-20 support. > I have gotten fabulous perforamnce figures on my NCR 53c810b under > 3.0, but I've been using a 7200 RPM 9G IBM SCSI drive there lately, > and a Quantum simply would not stack up to that (5.5ms avg access). Hmmm, you must have performed the tests on a file system, that covered only a small fraction of the disk. Random seeks will then cover only a small range of cylinders, and in the case of a file system in the outer area, 1GB of 9GB may restrict seeks to 1/15 to 1/20 of the tracks (because of the larger capacity of outer tracks) ... The IBM DCHS (I assume you were testing one of those) is about as fast as a Quantum Atlas II, which has just recently been sold out at near EIDE prices, since the Atlas III will take its place as the server disk offering of Quantum. (And the Atlas III should give you 10MB/s on the inner tracks, and up to 16MB/s on the outer tracks, if I interpret the data sheets on Quantums web site correctly ...) Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 14:48:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08682 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA08663 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de ([134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA09243 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:48:17 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.8.7/8.6.9) id XAA01654; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:10:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Face: " Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:10:06 +0200 From: Stefan Esser To: Mats Lofkvist Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) References: <199709082256.AAA04008@kairos> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74 In-Reply-To: <199709082256.AAA04008@kairos>; from Mats Lofkvist on Tue, Sep 09, 1997 at 12:56:05AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sep 9, Mats Lofkvist wrote: > I tested reading (and writing were possible) small blocks (4KB) on all > my devices tonight. With iozone and bonnie I don't see anything really > alarming except that the bonnie seek rate drops significantly when > a "loader" is running (*). But dd from (and to) all my devices show the same > results counting the number of transfers per second (= # pci interrupts / s): > > rst0 r rst0 w sd0 rsd0 sd1 rsd1 cd0 rcd0 > unloaded 283 294 3700 2600 1134 1049 900 460 > loaded 23 22 50 26 24 23 25 22 > > rst0 is a sony sdt7000 dat tape on the ncr > sd0 is a quantum viking w on the aic7880 > sd1 is a quantum capella on the ncr > cd0 is a pioneer dr-u12x on the ncr I definitely can't reproduce your numbers. There is something *very* wrong with your system! > chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 > fxp0 rev 1 int a irq 10 on pci0:6 > ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:9 > vga0 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:11 > ncr0 rev 18 int a irq 10 on pci0:17 Hmmm, you got all your PCI disk and LAN cards on IRQ 10, which means there are three cards sharing interrupts. The VGA is on IRQ 11, and it should not really cause interrupts ... Could you try to assign different IRQs to fxp0, ncr0 and ahc0 ? Shared interrupts should just work, and there should not be a measurable impact on performance, but this is the only thing that seems special in your system. Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 14:48:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08700 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:48:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA08664 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de ([134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA09246 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:48:19 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.8.7/8.6.9) id XAA01693; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:20:03 +0200 (CEST) X-Face: " Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:20:03 +0200 From: Stefan Esser To: Terry Lambert Cc: Mats Lofkvist , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) References: <199709091225.OAA14331@kairos> <199709091834.LAA28493@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74 In-Reply-To: <199709091834.LAA28493@usr04.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Tue, Sep 09, 1997 at 06:34:13PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sep 9, Terry Lambert wrote: > > But can lack of tagged command queueing explain the combination of good > > performance unloaded and bad with one or more cpu bound processes? > > Yes, I believe so: swapping. But you need to know for sure if it > is supported in your version, and I'm not the one to ask. Look > at the archives, or wait for Stefan to post. Well, as I always wrote in another message, the NCR driver supports tags for more than 3 years, already ... > > I have no problem with issues with the 810a affecting devices connected > > to it, but is it probable it could affect devices connected to the adaptec? > > No. The problems were specific to the 810a. There is a restriction with the alignment of data moved from memory to memory by the NCR under very specific circumstances (which depend on the chip set and PCI BIOS). But if your chip had that problem and it was not fixed in the driver, the system would fail to boot at all ... Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 15:00:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09559 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.algonet.se (angel.algonet.se [194.213.74.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09550 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:00:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 16106 invoked from network); 9 Sep 1997 22:00:29 -0000 Received: from kairos.algonet.se (HELO kairos) (mal@194.213.74.18) by angel.algonet.se with SMTP; 9 Sep 1997 22:00:29 -0000 Received: (mal@localhost) by kairos (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) id AAA21008; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:00:28 +0200 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:00:28 +0200 Message-Id: <199709092200.AAA21008@kairos> From: Mats Lofkvist To: tlambert@primenet.com CC: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199709091834.LAA28493@usr04.primenet.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:34:13 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You were right about tagged queueing not being enabled. Unfortunately turning it on didn't seem to help. I also tried with the 2.2.2-r generic kernel with the same results (no tagged queueing enabled in that one). I will now try to reassign the interrupts as Stefan suggested. _ Mats Lofkvist mal@algonet.se Changes in config file to enable tagged queueuing: # Tagged queueing on the ncr controller => no FAILSAFE #options FAILSAFE # Tagged queueing on the ahc options AHC_TAGENABLE # These two are supposed to be an improvement also options AHC_SCBPAGING_ENABLE options AHC_ALLOW_MEMIO Dd test on quantum viking connected to ahc, unloaded: garm>dd if=/dev/rsd0 of=/dev/null bs=4k count=8000 8000+0 records in 8000+0 records out 32768000 bytes transferred in 3.068474 secs (10678924 bytes/sec) Loaded (nice -19 loop &): garm>dd if=/dev/rsd0 of=/dev/null bs=4k count=800 800+0 records in 800+0 records out 3276800 bytes transferred in 69.099672 secs (47421 bytes/sec) From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 15:53:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA12675 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr02.primenet.com (tlambert@usr02.primenet.com [206.165.6.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12555; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA02002; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:51:24 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709092251.PAA02002@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) To: se@freebsd.org (Stefan Esser) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:51:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, mal@algonet.se, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19970909225733.44758@mi.uni-koeln.de> from "Stefan Esser" at Sep 9, 97 10:57:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ahemm, the NCR driver was the first SCSI driver in FreeBSD > that handled tagged commands, back in, well, it existed in > the driver kit for FreeBSD-1.1.x as of spring 1994 ... But FAILSAFE is on in GENERIC. > Ahemm, you are sure you got a 53c810b ??? > Those were never built, AFAIK ;-) You're right. It's a rev 2. It was the "first, B, III" units mixup you see on situation comedies... 8-). > > I have gotten fabulous perforamnce figures on my NCR 53c810b under > > 3.0, but I've been using a 7200 RPM 9G IBM SCSI drive there lately, > > and a Quantum simply would not stack up to that (5.5ms avg access). > > Hmmm, you must have performed the tests on a file system, > that covered only a small fraction of the disk. Random > seeks will then cover only a small range of cylinders, and > in the case of a file system in the outer area, 1GB of 9GB > may restrict seeks to 1/15 to 1/20 of the tracks (because > of the larger capacity of outer tracks) ... I don't think so. But I could be wrong. It was a month ago... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 16:10:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA13998 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr02.primenet.com (tlambert@usr02.primenet.com [206.165.6.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA13989 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA03289 for current@freebsd.org; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:10:32 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709092310.QAA03289@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Resubmission of patch to add SunOS "-d" option to "w" To: current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:10:32 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Apparently this was overlooked? This patch adds the "-d" option to the "w" command. The "-d" option dumps out the entire process list on a per controlling tty basis, instead of just the top level process. This makes "w" useful for job control. This is a traditional SunOS 4.x undocumented option which was not carried over into Solaris because the SVR4 "w" sources didn't have the SunOS extension. Please commit this patch... Context diff follows signature. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Index: w.c =================================================================== RCS file: /b/cvstree/ncvs/src/usr.bin/w/w.c,v retrieving revision 1.21 diff -c -r1.21 /usr/src/usr.bin/w.c *** 1.21 1997/08/25 06:42:19 --- /usr/src/usr.bin/w.c 1997/09/09 22:30:17 *************** *** 96,101 **** --- 96,102 ---- int argwidth; /* width of tty */ int header = 1; /* true if -h flag: don't print heading */ int nflag; /* true if -n flag: don't convert addrs */ + int dflag; /* true if -d flag: output debug info */ int sortidle; /* sort bu idle time */ char *sel_user; /* login of particular user selected */ char domain[MAXHOSTNAMELEN]; *************** *** 106,115 **** struct entry { struct entry *next; struct utmp utmp; ! dev_t tdev; /* dev_t of terminal */ ! time_t idle; /* idle time of terminal in seconds */ ! struct kinfo_proc *kp; /* `most interesting' proc */ ! char *args; /* arg list of interesting process */ } *ep, *ehead = NULL, **nextp = &ehead; static void pr_header __P((time_t *, int)); --- 107,117 ---- struct entry { struct entry *next; struct utmp utmp; ! dev_t tdev; /* dev_t of terminal */ ! time_t idle; /* idle time of terminal in seconds */ ! struct kinfo_proc *kp; /* `most interesting' proc */ ! char *args; /* arg list of interesting process */ ! struct kinfo_proc *dkp; /* debug option proc list */ } *ep, *ehead = NULL, **nextp = &ehead; static void pr_header __P((time_t *, int)); *************** *** 126,131 **** --- 128,134 ---- { extern char *__progname; struct kinfo_proc *kp; + struct kinfo_proc *dkp; struct hostent *hp; struct stat *stp; FILE *ut; *************** *** 146,157 **** p = ""; } else { wcmd = 1; ! p = "hiflM:N:nsuw"; } memf = nlistf = NULL; while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, p)) != -1) switch (ch) { case 'h': header = 0; break; --- 149,163 ---- p = ""; } else { wcmd = 1; ! p = "dhiflM:N:nsuw"; } memf = nlistf = NULL; while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, p)) != -1) switch (ch) { + case 'd': + dflag = 1; + break; case 'h': header = 0; break; *************** *** 254,266 **** continue; e = &kp->kp_eproc; for (ep = ehead; ep != NULL; ep = ep->next) { ! if (ep->tdev == e->e_tdev && e->e_pgid == e->e_tpgid) { /* ! * Proc is in foreground of this terminal */ ! if (proc_compare(&ep->kp->kp_proc, p)) ! ep->kp = kp; ! break; } } } --- 260,285 ---- continue; e = &kp->kp_eproc; for (ep = ehead; ep != NULL; ep = ep->next) { ! if (ep->tdev == e->e_tdev) { ! /* ! * proc is associated with this terminal ! */ ! if (ep->kp == NULL && e->e_pgid == e->e_tpgid) { ! /* ! * Proc is 'most interesting' ! */ ! if (proc_compare(&ep->kp->kp_proc, p)) ! ep->kp = kp; ! } /* ! * Proc debug option info; add to debug ! * list using kinfo_proc kp_eproc.e_spare ! * as next pointer; ptr to ptr avoids the ! * ptr = long assumption. */ ! dkp = ep->dkp; ! ep->dkp = kp; ! *((struct kinfo_proc **)(&kp->kp_eproc.e_spare[ 0])) = dkp; } } } *************** *** 341,346 **** --- 360,375 ---- (void)snprintf(buf, sizeof(buf), "%s:%.*s", p, ep->utmp.ut_host + UT_HOSTSIZE - x, x); p = buf; + } + if( dflag) { + for( dkp = ep->dkp; dkp != NULL; dkp = *((struct kinfo_proc **)(&dkp->kp_eproc.e_spare[ 0]))) { + char *p; + p = fmt_argv(kvm_getargv(kd, dkp, argwidth), + dkp->kp_proc.p_comm, MAXCOMLEN); + if (p == NULL) + p = "-"; + (void)printf( "\t\t%-9d %s\n", dkp->kp_proc.p_pid, p); + } } (void)printf("%-*.*s %-3.3s %-*.*s ", UT_NAMESIZE, UT_NAMESIZE, ep->utmp.ut_name, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 22:57:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08701 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.detroit.mi.ameritech.net (mpdr0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.243]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08696 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ameritech.net (pm243-24.dialip.mich.net [35.9.8.249]) by mailhost.detroit.mi.ameritech.net (8.8.3/8.8.3-AIMS) with ESMTP id BAA16391 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 01:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <34162D5C.91A9A393@ameritech.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 01:17:17 -0400 From: Adam McDougall X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: ml.org updaters have problem with 3.0-current Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I seem to be having a problem with ml.org entry updaters under 3.0-current. One such client shows this: MLDDC 3.1.8 STD Copyright 1997 Artur Skawina DNS error (gethostbyname): Connection timed out also with a different ml.org updater, DYN 2.0 by Jon Klippenstein Copyright (C) 1997 Mods (2.x) by Method Host: bsdx.dyn.ml.org IP: 35.9.9.227 USERNAME: wnman1 MX: mx gethostbyname: Transport endpoint is not connected Any ideas? All other internet apps work fine. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 9 23:04:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA09067 for current-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09053 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA15896 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:03:53 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.6/brasil-1.2) with UUCP id IAA02236 for current@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:03:32 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.7/keltia-uucp-2.10/nospam) id HAA02483; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:44:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970910074405.20546@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:44:05 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd-stable where to start? References: <199709092147.XAA05735@Reineke.Malepartus.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76 In-Reply-To: <199709092147.XAA05735@Reineke.Malepartus.de>; from Burkard Meyendriesch on Tue, Sep 09, 1997 at 11:47:39PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3634 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Burkard Meyendriesch: > from src-2.2.0400xEmpty til now (src-2.2.0425.gz). But I don't know what > ist the correct starting point from my installed release 2.2.1; what is > the first delta I have to apply? Don't bother yourself with finding this. Just start from src-2.2.0400xEmpty (which is a full source tree) and then apply all from 400 to 425. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #31: Sat Sep 6 21:58:17 CEST 1997 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 03:50:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22973 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 03:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.itfs.nsk.su (gw.itfs.nsk.su [193.124.36.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA22953 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 03:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itfs.UUCP (root@localhost) by gw.itfs.nsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id RAA17104 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:49:59 +0700 Received: by itfs.nsk.su; Wed, 10 Sep 97 17:50:53 +0700 (NST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by news.itfs.nsk.su (8.7.5/8.6.12) id RAA17657; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:44:54 +0700 (NSD) From: nnd@itfs.nsk.su To: current@freebsd.org Subject: PPP - link-up/link-down asymmetry Date: 10 Sep 1997 10:44:52 GMT Message-ID: <5v5tn4$gsa@news.itfs.nsk.su> Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk /usr/sbin/ppp searchs 'ppp.linkup' file for labels starting from 'my-ip-address', then looks at 'dstsystem' ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and finally at 'MYADDR'. On link-down the file 'ppp.linkdown' is searched starting from 'peer-ip-address', then 'dstsystem' and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ finally to 'MYADDR' labels. Is there any sense in such an asymmetry ? Would'nt it be better to look at both 'my-' and 'peer-ip-address' on both link-up and link-down events ? (But I can'nt put this two adresses in one particular order ;-) N.Dudorov From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 05:46:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28487 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.itfs.nsk.su (gw.itfs.nsk.su [193.124.36.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA28477 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itfs.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by gw.itfs.nsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id TAA17699 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:45:35 +0700 Received: by itfs.nsk.su; Wed, 10 Sep 97 19:41:36 +0700 (NST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by news.itfs.nsk.su (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA18892; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:39:12 +0700 (NSD) From: nnd@itfs.nsk.su To: current@freebsd.org Subject: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? Date: 10 Sep 1997 12:39:11 GMT Message-ID: <5v64df$gsa@news.itfs.nsk.su> Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I try to construct a 'dial-in-access-server' from IBM PC-compatible with Cyclades' Cyclom-16YeP multiport board, some cheap modems and FreeBSD-3.0. I've discover that if I start '/usr/sbin/ppp' as: /usr/sbin/ppp -direct user-label (from small script setted as as user's shell) then it sets 'CLOCAL' flag for modem and as a result 'ppp' process does'nt received 'SIGHUP' on modem's carrier drop. What is the purpose of such ('CLOCAL') setting in '-direct' mode ? N.Dudorov P.S. If this is just an oversight I append a patch for /usr/src/usr.sbin/ppp/modem.c ;-) --- modem.c.ORIG Wed Sep 10 13:54:34 1997 +++ modem.c Wed Sep 10 13:55:43 1997 @@ -566,10 +566,9 @@ } tcgetattr(modem, &rstio); cfmakeraw(&rstio); + if (!(mode & MODE_DIRECT)) rstio.c_cflag |= CLOCAL; if (VarCtsRts) - rstio.c_cflag |= CLOCAL | CCTS_OFLOW | CRTS_IFLOW; - else - rstio.c_cflag |= CLOCAL; + rstio.c_cflag |= CCTS_OFLOW | CRTS_IFLOW; if (!(mode & MODE_DEDICATED)) rstio.c_cflag |= HUPCL; From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 05:59:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA29416 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.algonet.se (angel.algonet.se [194.213.74.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA29409 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 8804 invoked from network); 10 Sep 1997 12:59:39 -0000 Received: from kairos.algonet.se (HELO kairos) (mal@194.213.74.18) by angel.algonet.se with SMTP; 10 Sep 1997 12:59:39 -0000 Received: (mal@localhost) by kairos (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) id OAA02564; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:59:38 +0200 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:59:38 +0200 Message-Id: <199709101259.OAA02564@kairos> From: Mats Lofkvist To: se@freebsd.org CC: current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <19970909231006.58788@mi.uni-koeln.de> (message from Stefan Esser on Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:10:06 +0200) Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmmm, you got all your PCI disk and LAN cards on IRQ 10, which means there are three cards sharing interrupts. The VGA is on IRQ 11, and it should not really cause interrupts ... Could you try to assign different IRQs to fxp0, ncr0 and ahc0 ? Shared interrupts should just work, and there should not be a measurable impact on performance, but this is the only thing that seems special in your system. Regards, STefan Reassigning interrupts doesn't seem to be as easy as I hoped :-( I have an Intel Providence motherboard with the ahc and fxp builtin (on pci) and an separate ncr for the narrow devices. I haven't been able to figure out how to change the interrupts, can't find anything in the bios letting me set them explicitly. (Setting plug-n-play to "bios" mode only lets me reserve irq's used by non-pnp cards, not reassign anything on pci. With pnp in the "pnp os" mode nothing can be changed.) Any ideas? _ Mats Lofkvist mal@algonet.se From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 06:49:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA02755 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cicero.cybercity.dk (cicero.cybercity.dk [195.8.128.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA02750; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from schizo.dk.tfs.com (mail.trw.dk [195.8.133.123]) by cicero.cybercity.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08133; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:45:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.dk.tfs.com [140.145.230.252]) by schizo.dk.tfs.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10333; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:43:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.dk.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01239; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:42:52 +0200 (CEST) To: Mats Lofkvist cc: se@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:59:38 +0200." <199709101259.OAA02564@kairos> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:42:51 +0200 Message-ID: <1237.873898971@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199709101259.OAA02564@kairos>, Mats Lofkvist writes: > Hmmm, you got all your PCI disk and LAN cards on > IRQ 10, which means there are three cards sharing > interrupts. The VGA is on IRQ 11, and it should > not really cause interrupts ... > > Could you try to assign different IRQs to fxp0, ncr0 > and ahc0 ? > > Shared interrupts should just work, and there should > not be a measurable impact on performance, but this > is the only thing that seems special in your system. > > Regards, STefan > >Reassigning interrupts doesn't seem to be as easy as I hoped :-( > >I have an Intel Providence motherboard with the ahc and fxp >builtin (on pci) and an separate ncr for the narrow devices. >I haven't been able to figure out how to change the interrupts, >can't find anything in the bios letting me set them explicitly. >(Setting plug-n-play to "bios" mode only lets me reserve irq's >used by non-pnp cards, not reassign anything on pci. With pnp in >the "pnp os" mode nothing can be changed.) > >Any ideas? This card is rather stubborn, (I've got one too), Try setting the setting to "APIC" somewhere deep in there, that may help. Quite possibly this will make no difference unless you boot a SMP kernel, but that will probably work OK even if you only have one CPU. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 07:51:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA05809 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagual.pp.ru (ache@ache.relcom.ru [194.58.229.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA05792 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA00839; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:50:52 +0400 (MSD) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:50:48 +0400 (MSD) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= To: nnd@itfs.nsk.su cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? In-Reply-To: <5v64df$gsa@news.itfs.nsk.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 10 Sep 1997 nnd@itfs.nsk.su wrote: > (from small script setted as as user's shell) > then it sets 'CLOCAL' flag for modem and > as a result 'ppp' process does'nt received 'SIGHUP' > on modem's carrier drop. It not supposed to receive SIGHUP since modem line is not controlling terminal in any case. Carrier detected by TIOCM_CD instead. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 11:21:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17731 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17719 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 16204 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Sep 1997 18:22:05 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Persistant warnings in ip_divert.c Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have been seeing these for a long while. Any reason why? cc -c -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -DEXT2FS -DFAILSAFE -DSAFETY -DUMAPFS_DIAGNOSTIC -DKERNFS_DIAGNOSTIC -DNULLFS_DIAGNOSTIC -DDEVFS -DNFS -DFFS -DTCPDEBUG -DIPDIVERT -DINET -DCOMPAT_43 -DKERNEL -include opt_global.h ../../netinet/ip_divert.c ../../netinet/ip_divert.c: In function `div_bind': ../../netinet/ip_divert.c:327: warning: passing arg 2 of `in_pcbbind' from incompatible pointer type ../../netinet/ip_divert.c: At top level: ../../netinet/ip_divert.c:356: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type ../../netinet/ip_divert.c:359: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type --- Sincerely Yours, (Sent on 10-Sep-97, 11:18:15 by XF-Mail) Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.643.5559, Emergency: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 11:21:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17738 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17720 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 16207 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Sep 1997 18:22:05 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Warning in pci_compat.c Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is another one. From a different area. Again, do we have to suffer this indignation? :-) cc -c -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -DEXT2FS -DFAILSAFE -DSAFETY -DUMAPFS_DIAGNOSTIC -DKERNFS_DIAGNOSTIC -DNULLFS_DIAGNOSTIC -DDEVFS -DNFS -DFFS -DTCPDEBUG -DIPDIVERT -DINET -DCOMPAT_43 -DKERNEL -include opt_global.h ../../pci/pci_compat.c ../../pci/pci_compat.c: In function `pci_map_int': ../../pci/pci_compat.c:172: warning: passing arg 3 of `intr_create' from incompatible pointer type --- Sincerely Yours, (Sent on 10-Sep-97, 11:19:52 by XF-Mail) Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.643.5559, Emergency: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 13:42:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25824 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25817 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de ([134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA20138 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:42:01 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.8.7/8.6.9) id WAA01029; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:31:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Face: " Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:31:30 +0200 From: Stefan Esser To: Simon Shapiro Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Warning in pci_compat.c References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74 In-Reply-To: ; from Simon Shapiro on Wed, Sep 10, 1997 at 11:22:05AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sep 10, Simon Shapiro wrote: > This is another one. From a different area. Again, do we have to suffer > this indignation? :-) > > cc -c -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit > -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith > -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -DEXT2FS -DFAILSAFE -DSAFETY > -DUMAPFS_DIAGNOSTIC -DKERNFS_DIAGNOSTIC -DNULLFS_DIAGNOSTIC -DDEVFS -DNFS > -DFFS -DTCPDEBUG -DIPDIVERT -DINET -DCOMPAT_43 -DKERNEL -include > opt_global.h ../../pci/pci_compat.c > .../../pci/pci_compat.c: In function `pci_map_int': > .../../pci/pci_compat.c:172: warning: passing arg 3 of `intr_create' from > incompatible pointer type Yes, we have have to suffer ... :) The interrupt handler had been defined differently for different bus types. We should (IMHO) have: void inthandler(void*); But ISA handlers are called with a unit number, and PCI handlers used to return an int ... Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 13:42:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25858 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25843 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de ([134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA20143 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:42:08 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.8.7/8.6.9) id WAA01004; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:25:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Face: " Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:25:40 +0200 From: Stefan Esser To: Mats Lofkvist Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) References: <19970909231006.58788@mi.uni-koeln.de> <199709101259.OAA02564@kairos> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74 In-Reply-To: <199709101259.OAA02564@kairos>; from Mats Lofkvist on Wed, Sep 10, 1997 at 02:59:38PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sep 10, Mats Lofkvist wrote: > Reassigning interrupts doesn't seem to be as easy as I hoped :-( > > I have an Intel Providence motherboard with the ahc and fxp > builtin (on pci) and an separate ncr for the narrow devices. > I haven't been able to figure out how to change the interrupts, > can't find anything in the bios letting me set them explicitly. > (Setting plug-n-play to "bios" mode only lets me reserve irq's > used by non-pnp cards, not reassign anything on pci. With pnp in > the "pnp os" mode nothing can be changed.) Perhaps you can free IRQs that are currently reserved, with the effect that the BIOS uses them for PCI devices ? Do you have access to any other system, on which you could repeat your tests ? I guess the problem is specific to your motherboard, and even if you moved the controller cards over, you would not see the high impact you report ... BTW: I see on my system (486/133, NCR53c810, 2GB Atlas I): # dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null bs=4k 3767+0 records in 3767+0 records out 15429632 bytes transferred in 4.135790 secs (3730758 bytes/sec) # loop & dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null bs=4k 6144+0 records in 6144+0 records out 25165824 bytes transferred in 6.925719 secs (3633677 bytes/sec) # loop & loop & loop & loop & dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null bs=4k 6144+0 records in 6144+0 records out 25165824 bytes transferred in 7.237373 secs (3477204 bytes/sec) There is a slight decrease of throughput, but even with 4 loop processes (just a "main() {while(1);}"), it is less than 10%. The interrupt rate is some 920/s with no load, and decreases to some 850/s under load ... Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 15:56:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA04380 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA04361 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gurney.reilly.home (d5.syd2.zeta.org.au [203.26.11.5]) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA12835; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:52:53 +1000 Received: (from andrew@localhost) by gurney.reilly.home (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA02232; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:52:43 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Reilly Message-Id: <199709102252.IAA02232@gurney.reilly.home> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:52:43 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: freebsd-stable where to start? To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19970910074405.20546@keltia.freenix.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 10 Sep, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Burkard Meyendriesch: >> from src-2.2.0400xEmpty til now (src-2.2.0425.gz). But I don't know what >> ist the correct starting point from my installed release 2.2.1; what is >> the first delta I have to apply? > > Don't bother yourself with finding this. Just start from src-2.2.0400xEmpty > (which is a full source tree) and then apply all from 400 to 425. I had reason to wish that this had been writ large somewhere, recently. I first downloaded 2.2.1, (with src, of course) then 2.2.2, and _then_ found I had to download another 34+Megs for src-2.2.0400xEmpty, to get going with CTM. All at around 1k/second (the route from here to the CTM mirror at ftp.au.freebsd.org (also in Sydney) involves 11 hops, would you believe. It's almost faster to go straight to San Francisco.) Grrr... -- Andrew "The steady state of disks is full." -- Ken Thompson From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 17:43:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10528 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gamespot.com (ns2.gamespot.com [206.169.18.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10523; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tiramisu.gamespot.com (tiramisu.gamespot.com [206.169.18.119]) by gamespot.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA09754; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970910174437.012b1ad0@mail.gamespot.com> X-Sender: ian@mail.gamespot.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:44:37 -0700 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org From: Ian Kallen Subject: 2940UW broken in current? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just installed current on a box with an Adaptec 2940 Ultra/Ultra W (SCSISelect v1.23). It's stalling whilst detecting the CD (vanilla Toshiba, I've run 'em on various 2.2 and 2.1 installations for a long time...) - spends about 5 minutes on it: Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x01 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x02 on pci0.7.0 ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 10 on pci0.13.0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0: waiting for scsi devices to settle scbus0 at ahc0 bus 0 sd0 at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 sd0: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0: Direct-Access 1013MB (2074880 512 byte sectors) sd1 at scbus0 target 1 lun 0 sd1: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1: Direct-Access 2049MB (4197405 512 byte sectors) ahc0:A:4: refuses WIDE negotiation. Using 8bit transfers ahc0: board is not responding scbus0 target 4 lun 0: SCB 0x0 - timed out in datain phase, SCSISIGI == 0x44 SEQADDR = 0x12b SCSISEQ = 0x12 SSTAT0 = 0x0 SSTAT1 = 0x3 scbus0 target 4 lun 0: abort message in message buffer Unexpected busfree. LASTPHASE == 0x40 SEQADDR == 0x12d scbus0 target 4 lun 0: no longer in timeout ahc0: board is not responding cmd fail scbus0 target 4 lun 0: SCB 0x0 - timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 SEQADDR = 0x4 SCSISEQ = 0x12 SSTAT0 = 0x0 SSTAT1 = 0x3 scbus0 target 4 lun 0: SCB 0: Immediate reset. Flags = 0x1 scbus0 target 4 lun 0: no longer in timeout ahc0: Issued Channel A Bus Reset. 1 SCBs aborted ahc0:A:4: refuses WIDE negotiation. Using 8bit transfers cd0 at scbus0 target 4 lun 0 cd0: type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0: CD-ROM cd present [-256634383 x -465753616 byte records] vga0: rev 0x00 int a irq 11 on pci0.14.0 vx0: <3COM 3C590 Etherlink III PCI> rev 0x00 int a irq 9 on pci0.16.0 utp/aui/bnc[*utp*]: disable 'auto select' with DOS util! address 00:20:af:f6:e3:e1 Warning! Defective early revision adapter! Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> I haven't built a new kernel or anything yet, just wondering if this is a known problem and if there's a fix. thanks, -Ian -- Ian Kallen ian@gamespot.com Director of Technology and Web Administration SpotMedia Communications http://www.gamespot.com/ http://www.videogamespot.com/ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 18:50:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14453 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:50:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA14416 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 4461 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Sep 1997 01:50:21 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: PPP Difficulties Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Y'all, This may have been covered, but it continues here... Current as of today. For about a week or so, PPP drops connections with: Sep 10 18:08:33 sendero pppd[1544]: local IP address 206.190.143.100 Sep 10 18:08:33 sendero pppd[1544]: remote IP address 206.190.143.2 Sep 10 18:12:03 sendero pppd[1544]: Serial link appears to be disconnected. What we also see a lot of is: Sep 10 18:08:32 sendero /kernel.sendero: ppp0: bad protocol 5050 Sep 10 18:08:32 sendero /kernel.sendero: ppp0: no compressor for [15 3 29], 3 Sep 10 18:08:32 sendero /kernel.sendero: ppp0: no compressor for [18 4 8], 4 Especially during connect time. We also see some: Sep 10 18:37:19 sendero /kernel.sendero: sio2: 2 more silo overflows (total 2) Now this is NOT on SMP. This is on UP, ISDN line at 115,200. We cannot connect anymore on V34, as since 2.3.1 pppd, it fails to authenticate. The ISP side did not change anything and works properly with others and worked perfectly well with FreeBSD until recently. I operate the ISP side, so I should know. --- Sincerely Yours, (Sent on 10-Sep-97, 18:38:05 by XF-Mail) Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.643.5559, Emergency: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 19:35:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA17068 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA17053 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA23585; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:35:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709110235.TAA23585@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ml.org updaters have problem with 3.0-current To: mcdougall@ameritech.net (Adam McDougall) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 02:35:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <34162D5C.91A9A393@ameritech.net> from "Adam McDougall" at Sep 10, 97 01:17:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hello, I seem to be having a problem with ml.org entry updaters under > 3.0-current. One such client shows this: > > MLDDC 3.1.8 STD Copyright 1997 Artur Skawina > DNS error (gethostbyname): Connection timed out > > also with a different ml.org updater, > > DYN 2.0 by Jon Klippenstein > Copyright (C) 1997 > Mods (2.x) by Method > Host: bsdx.dyn.ml.org > IP: 35.9.9.227 > USERNAME: wnman1 > MX: mx > gethostbyname: Transport endpoint is not connected > > Any ideas? All other internet apps work fine. A SPAMmer on the Isle Of Man in the UK forged SPAM from ml.org and gave a bunch of ml.org accounts as "contact us here!". It was a "fake SPAM", ie: it's sole purpose seems to have been to disrupt ml.org. Apparently, they used the FreeBSD list archives in order to harvest addresses. This is apparently a very targetted attack. I have provided full trace interpretation to them for them to give to the FBI, and their lawyers, both of whom are apparently invloved in investigating the incident. I will have my sendmail signed key exchange RFC ready in a month or so, after which the authority can refuse to sign keys for spammers, as part of their contractual obligations. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 19:38:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA17320 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA17312 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA23795; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:38:09 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709110238.TAA23795@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? To: nnd@itfs.nsk.su Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 02:38:09 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <5v64df$gsa@news.itfs.nsk.su> from "nnd@itfs.nsk.su" at Sep 10, 97 12:39:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (from small script setted as as user's shell) > then it sets 'CLOCAL' flag for modem and > as a result 'ppp' process does'nt received 'SIGHUP' > on modem's carrier drop. > > What is the purpose of such ('CLOCAL') setting > in '-direct' mode ? Without correct use of the partial open hack, and a driver that supports it, without CLOCAL set, the lack of DCD prevents the process from communicating with the modem in order to configure it, since the open hangs until the DCD goes high. An alternative implementation would have a host open succeed with an O_NDELAY flag on the open, but not put the fd in async mode. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 20:34:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22053 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spinner.dialix.com.au (spinner.dialix.com.au [192.203.228.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21988; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spinner.dialix.com.au (localhost.dialix.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.dialix.com.au with ESMTP id LAA21168; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:34:08 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.dialix.com.au) Message-Id: <199709110334.LAA21168@spinner.dialix.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: current@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:34:07 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Due to the legal 'situation' with the trademark owner, all files with "tetris" in the name have been rather hastily removed from the cvs tree. Yes, we are well aware of the problems that this will cause.. It'll stop the various RELENG_*_RELEASE builds from compiling, and will cause any current checked out src or ports trees to abort on a 'cvs update'. You will see this sort of thing: [11:23am]~src/games-163> cvs -q update -d -P cvs [update aborted]: cannot open directory /home/ncvs/src/games/tetris: No such file or directory [11:23am]~src/games-164> The solution is to rm -rf the src/games/tetris and ports/games/xtetris directories, cvs will then procede. Oh, a word of warning. If anybody accidently restores the RCS ,v files on their private machines after cvsup has run and deleted them, cvsup will not delete them a second time... Caution is advised. Cheers, -Peter From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 21:20:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA24807 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.itfs.nsk.su (gw.itfs.nsk.su [193.124.36.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA24798 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itfs.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by gw.itfs.nsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id LAA22209 for current@freebsd.org; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:20:09 +0700 Received: by itfs.nsk.su; Thu, 11 Sep 97 11:12:14 +0700 (NST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by news.itfs.nsk.su (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA05486; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:06:55 +0700 (NSD) From: nnd@itfs.nsk.su To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? Date: 11 Sep 1997 04:06:50 GMT Message-ID: <5v7qoq$4ne@news.itfs.nsk.su> References: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk áÎÄÒÅÊ þÅÒÎÏ× wrote: > On 10 Sep 1997 nnd@itfs.nsk.su wrote: > > (from small script setted as as user's shell) > > then it sets 'CLOCAL' flag for modem and > > as a result 'ppp' process does'nt received 'SIGHUP' > > on modem's carrier drop. > It not supposed to receive SIGHUP since modem line is not controlling > terminal in any case. Carrier detected by TIOCM_CD instead. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ | Sorry, but is this (|) really the case when 'ppp -direct' was started as a user's shell from getty ? At least i my case before my patch 'ppp' process stays after modem drops carrier and after the patch 'ppp' exits when modem's CD go OFF. N.Dudorov From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 21:35:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA25516 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA25510 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 8233 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Sep 1997 04:35:23 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199709110238.TAA23795@usr05.primenet.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, nnd@itfs.nsk.su Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Terry Lambert; On 11-Sep-97 you wrote: ... > Without correct use of the partial open hack, and a driver that > supports it, without CLOCAL set, the lack of DCD prevents the > process from communicating with the modem in order to configure > it, since the open hangs until the DCD goes high. I find it highly entertaining that we still have this issue. According to the original CCITT spec, DCD is NOT supposed to go true unless the modem on the other side has handshaked. This is what DCD is (Data Carrier Detect). The solution is very simple; Upon open, you open anyway, ignoring but remembering DCD. If you get a change of state from inactive to active, you change the state, but ignore it. However, if the state transitions from ACTIVE to INACTIVE, you terminate the connection, close the port and generate SIGHUP. This is the simplest and most correct way to handle it. Before you remind me that oh, so many devices know how to fake DCD, I will tell you that I know that. This bug in RS-232C handling is older than some of us. Modem vendors have to connect to Unix boxes, hence, the kludge. --- Sincerely Yours, (Sent on 10-Sep-97, 21:07:16 by XF-Mail) Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.643.5559, Emergency: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 21:50:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA26116 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.itfs.nsk.su (gw.itfs.nsk.su [193.124.36.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA26111 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itfs.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by gw.itfs.nsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id LAA22327 for current@freebsd.org; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:50:08 +0700 Received: by itfs.nsk.su; Thu, 11 Sep 97 11:42:18 +0700 (NST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by news.itfs.nsk.su (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA05925; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:30:21 +0700 (NSD) From: nnd@itfs.nsk.su To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? Date: 11 Sep 1997 04:30:18 GMT Message-ID: <5v7s4q$4ne@news.itfs.nsk.su> References: <199709110238.TAA23795@usr05.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > (from small script setted as as user's shell) > > then it sets 'CLOCAL' flag for modem and > > as a result 'ppp' process does'nt received 'SIGHUP' > > on modem's carrier drop. > > > > What is the purpose of such ('CLOCAL') setting > > in '-direct' mode ? > Without correct use of the partial open hack, and a driver that > supports it, without CLOCAL set, the lack of DCD prevents the > process from communicating with the modem in order to configure > it, since the open hangs until the DCD goes high. > An alternative implementation would have a host open succeed with > an O_NDELAY flag on the open, but not put the fd in async mode. So the problem (with me) is in (my) interpretation of '-direct' mode - I suppose (as mentioned - but not defined - in ppp manual) that in this case 'ppp' works with 'stdin' and 'stdout' and it is not ppp's task to talk with 'modem' (there can be no modem at all on the 'stdin/stdout' ?). But then I must ask myself - if this are general 'stdin/stdout' files - what the hell does 'CLOCAL' means for them ? Now I use a compromise - I've patched my 'ppp' and after that it's behavior is more suitable for my purposes (at least ppp process on my - server - side of a link sees the CD drop and exits). N.Dudorov P.S. Although I have no patches and therefore no rights to criticize - but (;-) man ppp gives no formal definitions for (listed at synopsis line) flags. They are only explained in the appropriate 'usage' sections of manual. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 22:17:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA27171 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagual.pp.ru (ache@ache.relcom.ru [194.58.229.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27162 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA00540; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:17:27 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:17:24 +0400 (MSD) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= To: nnd@itfs.nsk.su cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? In-Reply-To: <5v7qoq$4ne@news.itfs.nsk.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 11 Sep 1997 nnd@itfs.nsk.su wrote: > áÎÄÒÅÊ þÅÒÎÏ× wrote: > > On 10 Sep 1997 nnd@itfs.nsk.su wrote: > > > > (from small script setted as as user's shell) > > > then it sets 'CLOCAL' flag for modem and > > > as a result 'ppp' process does'nt received 'SIGHUP' > > > on modem's carrier drop. > > > It not supposed to receive SIGHUP since modem line is not controlling > > terminal in any case. Carrier detected by TIOCM_CD instead. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > | > Sorry, but is this (|) really the case when 'ppp -direct' > was started as a user's shell from getty ? Of course, not for -direct mode which suppose just stdin/stdout without any modem control. I do not understand one thing: if you use -direct mode, why modem code is even called? It is a bug indeed. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 22:21:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA27381 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagual.pp.ru (ache@ache.relcom.ru [194.58.229.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27358; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA00551; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:20:18 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:20:16 +0400 (MSD) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= To: Peter Wemm cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: <199709110334.LAA21168@spinner.dialix.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Peter Wemm wrote: > Due to the legal 'situation' with the trademark owner, all files with > "tetris" in the name have been rather hastily removed from the cvs tree. I don't understand why it is removed and not renamed instead. Is it supposed to come back under different name? The code itself is written from scratch and _not_ illegal. > The solution is to rm -rf the src/games/tetris and ports/games/xtetris > directories, cvs will then procede. Why xtetris even touched? xtetris != tetris in any case. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 22:28:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA27969 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27960 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06582; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:56:13 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199709110456.OAA06582@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Simon Shapiro cc: Terry Lambert , current@freebsd.org, nnd@itfs.nsk.su Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:35:23 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:56:13 +1000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The solution is very simple; Upon open, you open anyway, ignoring but > remembering DCD. If you get a change of state from inactive to active, you > change the state, but ignore it. However, if the state transitions from > ACTIVE to INACTIVE, you terminate the connection, close the port and > generate SIGHUP. This is the simplest and most correct way to handle it. This is how a callout device works, although SIGHUP is only delivered if the port is the controlling tty of the process. Note, however, that user-mode ppp _doesn't_want_this_, which is the whole issue. It wants to poll for carrier status, hence CLOCAL. mike From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 22:41:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA28611 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA28606 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 8991 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Sep 1997 05:41:24 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199709110456.OAA06582@word.smith.net.au> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? Cc: Terry Lambert , current@freebsd.org, nnd@itfs.nsk.su Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Mike Smith; On 11-Sep-97 you wrote: > > > > The solution is very simple; Upon open, you open anyway, ignoring but > > remembering DCD. If you get a change of state from inactive to active, > > you > > change the state, but ignore it. However, if the state transitions > > from > > ACTIVE to INACTIVE, you terminate the connection, close the port and > > generate SIGHUP. This is the simplest and most correct way to handle > > it. > > This is how a callout device works, although SIGHUP is only delivered > if the port is the controlling tty of the process. Note, however, that > user-mode ppp _doesn't_want_this_, which is the whole issue. So the device works properly. Good. It took several YEARS for AT&T/USL/USG/etc. to get it streight. > It wants to poll for carrier status, hence CLOCAL. Must hve a good reason... --- Sincerely Yours, (Sent on 10-Sep-97, 22:39:42 by XF-Mail) Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.643.5559, Emergency: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 22:43:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA28715 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA28707 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25878; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:43:34 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:43:32 +0400 (MSD) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: nnd@itfs.nsk.su cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? In-Reply-To: <5v7s4q$4ne@news.itfs.nsk.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 11 Sep 1997 nnd@itfs.nsk.su wrote: > So the problem (with me) is in (my) interpretation > of '-direct' mode - I suppose (as mentioned - but not defined - in > ppp manual) that in this case 'ppp' works with 'stdin' and 'stdout' > and it is not ppp's task to talk with 'modem' (there can be no > modem at all on the 'stdin/stdout' ?). Yes. > But then I must ask myself - if this are general > 'stdin/stdout' files - what the hell does 'CLOCAL' means > for them ? CLOCAL returns immediately after open. It is for any class of devices which require connection established. If connection established immediately CLOCAL makes no difference at all. The same words about CLOCAL and hangup operation. > Now I use a compromise - I've patched my 'ppp' and > after that it's behavior is more suitable for my purposes > (at least ppp process on my - server - side of a link > sees the CD drop and exits). Correct fix will be to find why modem code is called and remove this call for -direct case. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 22:52:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA29158 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA29152 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25976; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:52:43 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:52:41 +0400 (MSD) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: nnd@itfs.nsk.su cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does this fix work for you? *** modem.c.bak Mon Sep 1 14:56:38 1997 --- modem.c Thu Sep 11 09:50:46 1997 *************** *** 498,513 **** " cflag = %x\n", rstio.c_iflag, rstio.c_oflag, rstio.c_cflag); cfmakeraw(&rstio); if (VarCtsRts) ! rstio.c_cflag |= CLOCAL | CCTS_OFLOW | CRTS_IFLOW; ! else { ! rstio.c_cflag |= CLOCAL; rstio.c_iflag |= IXOFF; - } rstio.c_iflag |= IXON; if (!(mode & MODE_DEDICATED)) rstio.c_cflag |= HUPCL; if ((mode & MODE_DIRECT) == 0) { ! /* * If we are working as direct mode, don't change tty speed. */ --- 498,511 ---- " cflag = %x\n", rstio.c_iflag, rstio.c_oflag, rstio.c_cflag); cfmakeraw(&rstio); if (VarCtsRts) ! rstio.c_cflag |= CCTS_OFLOW | CRTS_IFLOW; ! else rstio.c_iflag |= IXOFF; rstio.c_iflag |= IXON; if (!(mode & MODE_DEDICATED)) rstio.c_cflag |= HUPCL; if ((mode & MODE_DIRECT) == 0) { ! rstio.c_cflag |= CLOCAL; /* * If we are working as direct mode, don't change tty speed. */ -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 23:39:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA02047 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02039 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id QAA29277; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:31:15 +1000 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:31:15 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199709110631.QAA29277@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@nagual.pp.ru, nnd@itfs.nsk.su Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > It not supposed to receive SIGHUP since modem line is not controlling >> > terminal in any case. Carrier detected by TIOCM_CD instead. >> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> | >> Sorry, but is this (|) really the case when 'ppp -direct' >> was started as a user's shell from getty ? > >Of course, not for -direct mode which suppose just stdin/stdout without >any modem control. >I do not understand one thing: if you use -direct mode, why modem code is >even called? It is a bug indeed. Presumably it needs to monitor carrier even for direct mode. Isn't the only difference for direct mode that getty instead of ppp opens the port? Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 10 23:44:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA02427 for current-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02422 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26618; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:43:44 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:43:43 +0400 (MSD) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Bruce Evans cc: nnd@itfs.nsk.su, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? In-Reply-To: <199709110631.QAA29277@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Bruce Evans wrote: > Presumably it needs to monitor carrier even for direct mode. Isn't the I don't think so. It is upper level control function, f.e. /etc/rc.serial > only difference for direct mode that getty instead of ppp opens the port? ppp already don't set speed for direct port confirming my idea about upper level controlling. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 00:07:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA03469 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03457 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id RAA30497; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:05:06 +1000 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:05:06 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199709110705.RAA30497@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: current@freebsd.org, nnd@itfs.nsk.su Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But then I must ask myself - if this are general >'stdin/stdout' files - what the hell does 'CLOCAL' means >for them ? CLOCAL is meaningless except for ttys. tcsetattr() returns ENOTTY for non-ttys. ppp ignores this error. Modem ioctls are meaningless for some types of ttys. E.g., ioctl(fd, TIOCMGET, &state) returns ENOTTY for ttyv0. ppp handles this a bit better. ppp on ttyv0 can't be expected to work for this and other reasons. In practice, `ppp -direct' on ttyv0 exits after a few seconds before tring any modem ioctls. It prints some gibberish and leaves the tty in a bad state. > Now I use a compromise - I've patched my 'ppp' and >after that it's behavior is more suitable for my purposes >(at least ppp process on my - server - side of a link >sees the CD drop and exits). ppp should notice the drop and do something appropriate. Perhaps you are using an old version of the cy driver which has broken carrier handling when CLOCAL is set. This is supposed to be fixed in -current, 2.2.0 and 2.1. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 00:36:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA04910 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA04886; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:36:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from larson (larson.anasazi.com [138.113.17.64]) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) with SMTP id AAA25830; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:34:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199709110734.AAA25830@freebie.dcfinc.com> X-Sender: chad@freebie.dcfinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:34:35 -0600 To: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= , Peter Wemm From: "Chad R. Larson" Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 09:20 AM 9/11/97 +0400, wrote: >I don't understand why it is removed and not renamed instead. >Is it supposed to come back under different name? >The code itself is written from scratch and _not_ illegal. It would seem to me that a simple re-name would take care of the legal issues. Call it "breakout". :-) -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 CRL22@aol.com chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Az 85254-2207 From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 00:43:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA05265 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05260 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id RAA31874; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:40:15 +1000 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:40:15 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199709110740.RAA31874@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@nagual.pp.ru, bde@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? Cc: current@freebsd.org, nnd@itfs.nsk.su Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Presumably it needs to monitor carrier even for direct mode. Isn't the > >I don't think so. It is upper level control function, f.e. /etc/rc.serial I think so :-). >> only difference for direct mode that getty instead of ppp opens the port? > >ppp already don't set speed for direct port confirming my idea about upper >level controlling. That's because it would be shooting itself in the foot to switch from the speed that was used to establish the (termios mode) connection. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 02:04:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08722 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 02:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA08717 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 02:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA11829; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 02:03:45 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709110903.CAA11829@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:03:45 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Shimon@i-Connect.Net, tlambert@primenet.com, current@freebsd.org, nnd@itfs.nsk.su In-Reply-To: <199709110456.OAA06582@word.smith.net.au> from "Mike Smith" at Sep 11, 97 02:56:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The solution is very simple; Upon open, you open anyway, ignoring but > > remembering DCD. If you get a change of state from inactive to active, you > > change the state, but ignore it. However, if the state transitions from > > ACTIVE to INACTIVE, you terminate the connection, close the port and > > generate SIGHUP. This is the simplest and most correct way to handle it. > > This is how a callout device works, although SIGHUP is only delivered > if the port is the controlling tty of the process. Note, however, that > user-mode ppp _doesn't_want_this_, which is the whole issue. Why doesn't user-nmode PPP want this? > It wants to poll for carrier status, hence CLOCAL. Even if it's a dial-*in* connection and it's acting as the PPP server? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 02:13:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA09059 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 02:13:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA09050 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 02:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA28231; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:11:30 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:11:28 +0400 (MSD) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Bruce Evans cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, nnd@itfs.nsk.su Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? In-Reply-To: <199709110705.RAA30497@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Bruce Evans wrote: > >after that it's behavior is more suitable for my purposes > >(at least ppp process on my - server - side of a link > >sees the CD drop and exits). > > ppp should notice the drop and do something appropriate. > > Perhaps you are using an old version of the cy driver which > has broken carrier handling when CLOCAL is set. This is > supposed to be fixed in -current, 2.2.0 and 2.1. Bruce, ppp -direct NOT supposed to track carrier because it uses pure stdin/stdout as controlling terminal. I can be even file, so TIOCM_CD is impossible. It is upper leve task to track/handle all device specific issues of stdin/stdout including carrier and CLOCAL. Lets separate functionality levels really. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 02:57:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11282 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 02:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11277 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 02:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id TAA04606; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:54:49 +1000 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:54:49 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199709110954.TAA04606@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@nagual.pp.ru, bde@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, nnd@itfs.nsk.su Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Bruce, ppp -direct NOT supposed to track carrier because it uses pure >stdin/stdout as controlling terminal. I can be even file, so TIOCM_CD is >impossible. It is upper leve task to track/handle all device specific It would take a strange input file to work with ppp. Anyway, in the usual (isatty(0)) case for -direct, `modem' is `open(ctermid(NULL), O_RDWR | O_NONBLOCK). This is essentially the same as for the usual !-direct case where `modem' is `open(VarDevice, O_RDWR | O_NONBLOCK). The main point of opening another device instance seems to be to avoid closing everything when `modem' is closed, but this is perfectly broken for the hangup case - setting CLOCAL prevents normal hangup processing and exiting from ppp may leave stdin open on a dead modem. In practice, it shouldn't be that bad. ppp should restore the termios state before exiting, and FreeBSD will notice that the connection has dropped when CLOCAL is turned off. It isn't clear whether this FreeBSD beviour is required by POSIX. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 03:09:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA11839 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA11832 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bsdcur@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.7/8.8.3) id NAA08473 for current@freebsd.org; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:06:44 +0300 (EET DST) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199709111006.NAA08473@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: cvsup To: current@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:06:44 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk uh, i know this is hardly current "feature", but on my other current machine, desktop at work, behind a firewall, cores cvsup whenever i try to start it. i get the following error: moonshade# cvsup -P - /etc/internat.freebsd.org & [1] 13986 moonshade# *** *** runtime error: *** Segmentation violation - possible attempt to dereference NIL *** pc = 0x82bac18 = Cat + 0x18 in ../src/text/Text.m3 *** [1] + abort (core dumped) cvsup -P - /etc/internat.freebsd.org moonshade# anyone wish to see the core itself? if i run it without the GUI it works like a charm, so it's the GUI thing... 'make world' or remaking modula3&cvsup did not fix the problem. since _all_ other x-programs i use work, i dont think it's alone a x problem either, nor afterstep. (i pkg_deleted before remaking) machine is now current from few days ago. as far as i remember, nothing have touched the mod3 or cvsup in past few weeks. the breakage appeared after 'make world' about 10 days ago. mickey From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 03:26:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA12440 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA12428 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA14233; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:26:18 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709111026.DAA14233@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? To: nnd@itfs.nsk.su Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:26:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <5v7s4q$4ne@news.itfs.nsk.su> from "nnd@itfs.nsk.su" at Sep 11, 97 04:30:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But then I must ask myself - if this are general > 'stdin/stdout' files - what the hell does 'CLOCAL' means > for them ? "This is a modem control port, but you should treat it as if it were a non-modem control port, and we were too stupid to remove the duplicate devices". The reason for the duplicate devices is long and complicated, as is the reason for a user manipulable CLOCAL (mostly, it's a stupid security hole that lets the next caller get your shell when you set it after calling in). Skip the article now, if you want to keep your sanity: 1) Initially, introduced by SCO Xenix, there was a modem control ("ttyA") and non-modem control ("ttya") device. The idea was to move the value which was traditionally a compile-time flag. This was done by folding the flag into the minor number instead. NB: if you have a SunOS 4.x.x adminstrators guide, look up UUCP configuration for inbound UUCP and modem calls to see the flags; alternately, if you have a Telebit product of any kind (a TrailBlazer is good) look in the manual for SunOS installation instructions. Either one will show you the flags I'm referencing. The "calling unit" or "cu" device was the same device, only renamed to indicate the existance of flags. In a real BSD system, the calling unit and the tty device never exist at the same time. In SunOS, these were "ttya" and "cua", respectively. The "a" ended up getting perverted to be a controller descriptor for the old 4 port S-BUS boards and Ultrix VAXEN boards. This means "ttya0" was "tty 0 on the first serial controller, without the modem control flags enabled" and "cua3" was "tty 3 on the first serial controller, with the modem control flags enabled". God only knows how FreeBSD decided to use "tty0" and "cua0" instead of "tty0/cu0" or "ttya0/cua0"... and he's not talking. Probably, they should both be "a00", with "a" being the "motherboard serial controller". Or they should both be "00", and there should not be any seperate namespace for seperate serial controllers at all. Either way would make it less confusing. 2) Microport UNIX, and later, "Cubix"'s port of Microport UNIX, introduced a non-modem device, a modem device, and another modem device. These were "tty0", "tty0m", and "tty0M". The reason for having these exist simultaneously was autmation of inbound and outbound connections. In order to automate inbound vs. outbound before this, you had to: A) lock the port with a lockfile B) modify /etc/ttys to turn the tty from "on" to "off" C) send SIGHUP to init (pid 1) to make it reread the /etc/ttys, and kill of the getty it had started D) do your call E) put the /etc/ttys back F) unlock the port by getting rid of the lockfile G) send SIGHUP to init again to make it reread the /etc/ttys, and restart the getty Not very damn automatic, plus only root can HUP init. In the new scheme, you either used "tty0" for a direct connection OR you used one of the modem control ports. If you used the modem control ports, you started a getty on "tty0m", and it hung in the opening waiting for DCD, loke all sane getty's are supposed to do, from time immemorial. Then if you wanted to call out, and there wasn't a DCD present ("tty0m" wasn't actively open), then you'd open "tty0M". This would *implicitly* lock the port for an outbound call, and you only needed to make the lockfile to keep other outbound calls from using the port at the same time. 3) Enter Honey-Dan-Ber UUCP (or HDB uucp). USL had considered this problem as well. They decided to make a getty that looked for a lock file after it opened (DCD present from dialout), and went to sleep and woke up every so often and checked to see if the lock file had gone away. The default was 300 seconds, or 5 minutes. They called this monstrosity "uugetty". In order to call out, the caller-outer had to open the port with DCD not present, and not hang like (uu)getty hung, waiting for DCD. The way this was done was called "the partial open hack". The hack operated by allowing any open to succeed, so long as it was initiated *after* an open that had succeeded (this let out the getty open, which was sleeping in the tty waiting for DCD). It was a hack, because you had to open the port with the O_NDELAY flag (in those days, the O_NDELAY flag indicated non-blocking I/O, and there was no way to turn it off: it was an open-time-only option). So how do you get a non-non-blocking I/O open to succeed without DCD present? A) lock the port with a lockfile B) open the port O_NDELAY; this will succeed even if DCD isn't present. C) open the port again without O_NDELAY. This will succeed because the port is already open. D) close the first fd. Now you are in business. E) Call who you are going to call F) DCD goes high, and the uugetty open succeeds G) The uugetty sees the lock file, clses the port, and goes to sleep for 5 minutes. It does this over and over, until the lock file is not there any more (wai 0-5 minutes to resume inbound calls). H) When you are done, close the port. I) Unlock the lock file The only real feaure to come out of uugetty was direct machine-to-machine seriallinks on non-modem control lines: because it waited for a CR before putting up the prompt, you could sometimes (not reliably, though), use it on a dedicated bidirectional serial line between two machines. Bigh whoop... 3COM, Lachman, and NRC had all released TCP/IP for Xenix about that time, and Novell was in the process of driving down ethernet boards into the commodity market, so why do that? 4) In SCO Xenix, you used to use "enable" and "disable". These were commands for printers, but they worked just as well on getty. Then SCO got HDB UUCP in Xenix 3.2 or so (at the same time, they broke the serial driver so after an on-to-off DCD transition, you had to reopen the port even if it wasn't a controlling tty, mostly because of a bad rewrite of the "revoke" primitive. For some reason, may people have been trained to believe this is somehow the way it's supposed to work. It's not.). When they "got religion", they changed the suid on the old enable/disable commands to make them only work with printers. This was to convince everyone else that "they needed to get religion, too". No one did, mosly because they went through enough lockfile formats in one point rev to make it impossible to interoperate with their newfound religion. None of us got religion, for what it's worth. We just chown'ed and chmod'ed the things back to what they were supposed to be during our product installs. Notes: 1) Why didn't they use O_EXCL, and just make the port exclusive? Because they didn't have poll/select. That meant you had to fork to get bidirectional I/O occurring simulataneously in terminal programs like "cu" or "tip". 2) What was the partial-partial-open hack? HDB attempted to use O_EXCL. They flubbed it, and it seems that they hacked up the lock stuff as a last resort. The world may never kow the true story. But the O_NDELAY code bypassed the code that reset the tty flags, assuming they were set to the default on the last close (tty devices are supposed to reset to ground state when you close them, unlike FreeBSD's). Because of this, the O_EXCL flag was set. This meant that if you forked, the process would leave the O_EXCL set by uugetty, and it wouldn't let the child process use the port. So you had to reset the flags. But because of a screwup that put 11 lines of tty.c about 22 lines further up than it should have been (these numbers are exact for SVR3.2), you had to make a blocking open call to do it. Hence the p-p-o-h: A) set an alarm for 2 seconds B) blocking open the tty to reset O_EXCL C) if the open worked, close it (inbound call at exactly the rigt time); if not, reset the alarm handler to pre-alarm state (before signals could be told not to restart, you had to longjmp from the alarm handler to get out of the open). D) open O_NDELAY ... 3) Why does FreeBSD have two devices? Nobody bloody knows... they aren't doing the SCO trick, what with CLOCAL and the control device, and they aren't doing the Microport trick. And flags could be done via a sysctl anyway, nowadays. So no one knows, really. 4) Why are there still lockfiles? Because we're too lazy to do things the right way: with an open flag for modem control inbound and another for modem control outbound, and O_EXCL-like flag used by outbound programs to prevent two outbound at the same time, but without preventing forking so you can implement things like "ct" and "dialback". Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 03:27:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA12491 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA12481 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA14288; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:27:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709111027.DAA14288@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? To: Shimon@i-Connect.Net (Simon Shapiro) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:27:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, nnd@itfs.nsk.su In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Sep 10, 97 09:35:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The solution is very simple; Upon open, you open anyway, ignoring but > remembering DCD. If you get a change of state from inactive to active, you > change the state, but ignore it. However, if the state transitions from > ACTIVE to INACTIVE, you terminate the connection, close the port and > generate SIGHUP. This is the simplest and most correct way to handle it. Won't work. They open for getty must hang until DCD is true. See my other post for the real soloution. Microport was on the right track. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 03:29:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA12563 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA12556 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA14337; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:28:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709111028.DAA14337@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? To: Shimon@i-Connect.Net (Simon Shapiro) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:28:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, tlambert@primenet.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, nnd@itfs.nsk.su In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Sep 10, 97 10:41:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is how a callout device works, although SIGHUP is only delivered > > if the port is the controlling tty of the process. Note, however, that > > user-mode ppp _doesn't_want_this_, which is the whole issue. > > So the device works properly. Good. It took several YEARS for > AT&T/USL/USG/etc. to get it streight. It doesn't, and they didn't. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 03:39:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA13205 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:39:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA13200 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA14664; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:38:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709111038.DAA14664@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:38:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: ache@nagual.pp.ru, bde@zeta.org.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, nnd@itfs.nsk.su In-Reply-To: <199709110740.RAA31874@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Sep 11, 97 05:40:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I don't think so. It is upper level control function, f.e. /etc/rc.serial > > I think so :-). As far as I'm concerned, rc.serial serves only two valid functions: to set the default port baud rate and CTS/RTS flow control state. The value of the CTS/RTS flow control state is a workaround for broken hardware (and should be worked around with more broken hardware, specifically, a broken cable). THe default should be CTS/RTS off, and it should be turened on by getty from gettytab, when the DCD goes high and the open completes. In the off state, the port should always assert CTS on its pins. The value of setting the default port baud rate is questionable: that can be accomplished in getty, either via two opens (one blocking, one not) or, as is traditional, when the DCD goes high. The value before the DCD goes high is dubious: it's only use is for fixed port-to-modem speeds, which defeat the UNIX autobaud mechanism for no good reason, and mgetty, which should be specifying that the open completes on RI instead of DCD-OFF-TO-ON transition -- in other words, yet another kludge for yet more broken hardware, and the lack of an WAITRI flag for open. Bletch. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 03:41:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA13307 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr05.primenet.com (tlambert@usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA13301 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA14741; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:41:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709111041.DAA14741@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PPP - why set CLOCAL for server ('-direct' mode) ? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:41:22 +0000 (GMT) Cc: ache@nagual.pp.ru, bde@zeta.org.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, nnd@itfs.nsk.su In-Reply-To: <199709110954.TAA04606@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Sep 11, 97 07:54:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In practice, it shouldn't be that bad. ppp should restore > the termios state before exiting, and FreeBSD will notice that the connection > has dropped when CLOCAL is turned off. It isn't clear whether this FreeBSD > beviour is required by POSIX. DCD loss signalling as if DCD-ON-TO-OFF transition, when a state change from CLOCAL-TO-!CLOCAL occurs is historical UNIX behaviour for as long as there has been a CLOCAL. For what that's worth. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 05:09:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA17202 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from antioche.lip6.fr (root@antioche.lip6.fr [132.227.61.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA17177 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from antifer.ipv6.lip6.fr (antifer.ipv6.lip6.fr [132.227.61.34]) by antioche.lip6.fr (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09181; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:06:21 +0200 (MEST) Received: (bouyer@localhost) by antifer.ipv6.lip6.fr (8.8.5/8.6.4) id OAA01785; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:06:19 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <19970911140619.40296@antioche.lip6.fr> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:06:19 +0200 From: Manuel BOUYER To: netbsd-current@netbsd.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Driver for the TI ThunderLan 10/100 ethernet chip ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76e Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, Is there any driver for Net/FreeBSD under developpement for the Texas Instrument's ThunderLan 10/100 ethernet chip ? This is the kind of chip that makes the onboard ethernet in the new Compaq "professional workstation" line. It is possible that I'll start developing such a driver in the few next days. -- Manuel Bouyer, LIP6, Universite Paris VI. Manuel.Bouyer@lip6.fr -- From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 05:35:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA18539 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA18515; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA20965; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709111237.FAA20965@implode.root.com> To: "Chad R. Larson" cc: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= , Peter Wemm , current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:34:35 MDT." <199709110734.AAA25830@freebie.dcfinc.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:37:04 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >At 09:20 AM 9/11/97 +0400, wrote: >>I don't understand why it is removed and not renamed instead. >>Is it supposed to come back under different name? >>The code itself is written from scratch and _not_ illegal. > >It would seem to me that a simple re-name would take care of the legal issues. >Call it "breakout". :-) It's possible that after the code has been sanitized of "tetris" that it could come back under a different name. This will require source changes and is not a concern right now, however. We were compelled to take immediate action. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 05:39:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA18719 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA18699; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA21003; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709111241.FAA21003@implode.root.com> To: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= cc: Peter Wemm , current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:20:16 +0400." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:41:25 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> The solution is to rm -rf the src/games/tetris and ports/games/xtetris >> directories, cvs will then procede. > >Why xtetris even touched? xtetris != tetris in any case. Well, if you understood what a trademark was, then you wouldn't be saying that. That "xtetris" implies or indicates the qualities of the "tetris" game by using the word in the name is plenty enough for it to be a violation of the trademark. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 06:45:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA21412 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 06:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA21407 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 06:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 0325650F.004C0187 ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:50:11 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA From: "Daniel Sobral" To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <0325650F.0046019F.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:48:10 -0300 Subject: Final "heads up!" for next 3.0 SNAP CD from Walnut Creek CDROM Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The next 3.0 SNAPshot on CDROM will be done in the 15th of September > if I can get everyone to sort of agree not to break -current on that > day. ;-) May I suggest you wait at least 2 days before commiting the snap? I.e., if you choose September 15, wait until September 17 before commiting the September 15 snap. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 07:12:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA22788 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA22783; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06814; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:11:52 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:11:46 +0400 (MSD) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: David Greenman cc: "Chad R. Larson" , Peter Wemm , current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: <199709111237.FAA20965@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, David Greenman wrote: > >At 09:20 AM 9/11/97 +0400, wrote: > >>I don't understand why it is removed and not renamed instead. > >>Is it supposed to come back under different name? > >>The code itself is written from scratch and _not_ illegal. > > > >It would seem to me that a simple re-name would take care of the legal issues. > >Call it "breakout". :-) > > It's possible that after the code has been sanitized of "tetris" that it > could come back under a different name. This will require source changes > and is not a concern right now, however. We were compelled to take immediate > action. I can take this "sanitizing" task. Could you please describe me (privately) your point of view on this process since you are more familiar with those trademark laws? Do you have any good name candidade to not break someone trademark again? :-) -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 07:25:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA23884 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from daria.cdnow.com (daria.cdnow.com [198.138.235.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA23866; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from heller@localhost) by daria.cdnow.com (8.7.5/8.6.7) id KAA26227; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:20:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Karl Heller" Message-Id: <199709111420.KAA26227@daria.cdnow.com> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Cc: ache@nagual.pp.ru, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: heller@cdnow.com In-Reply-To: <199709111241.FAA21003@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Sep 11, 97 05:41:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> The solution is to rm -rf the src/games/tetris and ports/games/xtetris > >> directories, cvs will then procede. > > > >Why xtetris even touched? xtetris != tetris in any case. > Well, if you understood what a trademark was, then you wouldn't be saying > that. That "xtetris" implies or indicates the qualities of the "tetris" game > by using the word in the name is plenty enough for it to be a violation of > the trademark. > -DG I guess I better not install any "Windows" in my house then. *grin* -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- A. Karl Heller Senior Systems Engineer CDnow Inc. http://cdnow.com From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 07:28:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA24059 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:28:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA24051 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id QAA04197; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:15:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA25905; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:05:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970911080515.42812@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:05:15 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Andrew Reilly Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd-stable where to start? References: <19970910074405.20546@keltia.freenix.fr> <199709102252.IAA02232@gurney.reilly.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199709102252.IAA02232@gurney.reilly.home>; from Andrew Reilly on Thu, Sep 11, 1997 at 08:52:43AM +1000 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Sep 11, 1997 at 08:52:43AM +1000, Andrew Reilly wrote: > On 10 Sep, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > According to Burkard Meyendriesch: > >> from src-2.2.0400xEmpty til now (src-2.2.0425.gz). But I don't know what > >> ist the correct starting point from my installed release 2.2.1; what is > >> the first delta I have to apply? > > > > Don't bother yourself with finding this. Just start from src-2.2.0400xEmpty > > (which is a full source tree) and then apply all from 400 to 425. > > I had reason to wish that this had been writ large somewhere, recently. > I first downloaded 2.2.1, (with src, of course) then 2.2.2, and _then_ > found I had to download another 34+Megs for src-2.2.0400xEmpty, to get > going with CTM. All at around 1k/second (the route from here to the CTM > mirror at ftp.au.freebsd.org (also in Sydney) involves 11 hops, would > you believe. It's almost faster to go straight to San Francisco.) > > Grrr... You can buy a CD-Rom, ask a friend to get them via tape, you are free to get the CVS repository (on FreeBSD SNAPshot CD's) and to use cvsup then to mirror the cvs repository or only the src tree. There are many possibilities ... No need for a Grrrr ;-) -- Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 09:05:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00152 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (ken@mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00122 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ken@localhost) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA14865; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:05:10 -0600 (MDT) From: Kenneth Merry Message-Id: <199709111605.KAA14865@pluto.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: <199709111241.FAA21003@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Sep 11, 97 05:41:25 am" To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:05:10 -0600 (MDT) Cc: current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman wrote... > >> The solution is to rm -rf the src/games/tetris and ports/games/xtetris > >> directories, cvs will then procede. > > > >Why xtetris even touched? xtetris != tetris in any case. > > Well, if you understood what a trademark was, then you wouldn't be saying > that. That "xtetris" implies or indicates the qualities of the "tetris" game > by using the word in the name is plenty enough for it to be a violation of > the trademark. So who exactly is the tetris trademark holder? And what has prompted them to complain (and threaten legal action) after all this time? The CVS logs indicate that the non-X version (in /usr/games) has been there since the 4.4-Lite merge in 1994. And is this trademark holder going to similarly assault the other million or so tetris games in the world? The very existence of so many tetris games (named tetris, even) seems to indicate that the trademark holder hasn't been very vigilant in protecting their trademark... Just do a web search for 'tetris' and you come up with zillions of games. Is the problem with just having a game named tetris, or with Walnut Creek's selling CDs that contain a game named tetris? Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 11:30:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08140 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr07.primenet.com (tlambert@usr07.primenet.com [206.165.6.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08101; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA25004; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:29:13 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709111829.LAA25004@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:29:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: ache@nagual.pp.ru, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199709111241.FAA21003@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Sep 11, 97 05:41:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Why xtetris even touched? xtetris != tetris in any case. > > Well, if you understood what a trademark was, then you wouldn't be saying > that. That "xtetris" implies or indicates the qualities of the "tetris" game > by using the word in the name is plenty enough for it to be a violation of > the trademark. >Sniff< ... >Sniff< ... That was >sniff< a *beautiful* definition, David... Someone, please hand me an xkleenex... I'm all xverklempt. >Sniff< Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 11:33:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08458 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08433; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:33:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.6/8.8.5) id LAA15114; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709111830.LAA15114@freefall.freebsd.org> To: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Doug Rabson. Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I haven't heard from Doug since June 3. Has anyone any information as to what happenned to him? If not, maybe one of our UK members might like to go to: Doug Rabson (NLSYSTEMS-DOM) 33 The Chase Edgware, Middlesex, HA8 5DW UK and try find out what happenned? From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 11:43:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA09243 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr07.primenet.com (tlambert@usr07.primenet.com [206.165.6.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09223; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA25652; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:42:57 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709111842.LAA25652@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... To: ache@nagual.pp.ru (=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:42:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=" at Sep 11, 97 06:11:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It's possible that after the code has been sanitized of "tetris" that it > > could come back under a different name. This will require source changes > > and is not a concern right now, however. We were compelled to take immediate > > action. > > I can take this "sanitizing" task. Could you please describe me > (privately) your point of view on this process since you are more familiar > with those trademark laws? Do you have any good name candidade to not > break someone trademark again? :-) We all know that what they really want is to stifle competition, since they will never willing enter the UNIX market with a commercial product; they want you to run DOS and use their DOS product instead. Jerks. I suggest the following: Rename the source file to "main.c" and the man source to main.6. Then, in the Makefile: PROG= newname SRCS= main.c ... CFLAGS+=-DPROGNAME=\"${PROG)\" ${PROG}.6: main.6 ... sed main.6 with ${PROG} to create ${PROG}.6 ... ...So it's a one line change forever after. PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 11:44:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA09342 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr07.primenet.com (tlambert@usr07.primenet.com [206.165.6.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09317; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA25674; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:43:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709111843.LAA25674@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... To: heller@cdnow.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:43:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dg@root.com, ache@nagual.pp.ru, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199709111420.KAA26227@daria.cdnow.com> from "A. Karl Heller" at Sep 11, 97 10:20:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I guess I better not install any "Windows" in my house then. > > *grin* That's not a problem, so long as your house doesn't resemble Bills... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 12:31:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA12151 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.algonet.se (angel.algonet.se [194.213.74.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA12145 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 16679 invoked from network); 11 Sep 1997 19:31:14 -0000 Received: from kairos.algonet.se (HELO kairos) (mal@194.213.74.18) by angel.algonet.se with SMTP; 11 Sep 1997 19:31:14 -0000 Received: (mal@localhost) by kairos (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) id VAA01882; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:31:14 +0200 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:31:14 +0200 Message-Id: <199709111931.VAA01882@kairos> From: Mats Lofkvist To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The interrupt sharing of the ncr and ahc controllers indeed seemed to be the problem. With the ncr driver removed from the kernel, the ahc worked ok and now I'm running with them both but on separate interrupts and the bogus behaviour is gone. Convincing the Providence motherboard to use different irqs wasn't easy, I finally tricked it by telling it irq 10 (which it used to use for fxp0, ncr0 and ahc0) was needed for an isa card which made it use irq 9 for fxp0 and ncr0 and irq14 for ahc0. Conclusion: 2.2.2R doesn't like to have an ncr and an ahc on the same interrupt. Thanks for the help I got from all of you! _ Mats Lofkvist mal@algonet.se From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 12:43:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA12685 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from millenia.srrc.usda.gov ([199.78.118.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12677 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nola.srrc.usda.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by millenia.srrc.usda.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00325 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:41:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <34184980.49639858@nola.srrc.usda.gov> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:41:52 -0500 From: Glenn Johnson Organization: USDA-ARS-SRRC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Strange output in "Top" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just did a "make world" on my -current SMP system. I started up a lengthy (weeks to complete) calculation and then checked 'top'. The WCPU and CPU fields give me extremely low numbers. When no other processes are running, the WCPU and CPU field hover around 0-1% for the calculation process and the %idle field is around 98-99%. Strangely, if I increase the system load, the WCPU and CPU %values go up, and keep going up as the load goes up, but not to what I think they should be. What the values should be is about 50% (100% of a single CPU) with no other activity. The percentage of this process should decrease as I increase the load. The system load numbers are what I would expect and the calculation is proceeding at its normal speed. So I guess either 'top' is calculating wrong or is getting the wrong information. This behavior began today for me with a fresh cvsup, but note that I don't 'make world' every day so I don't know when the problem might have manifested in the code. Of course it could be some quirk with my machine. Thanks. -- Glenn Johnson gjohnson@nola.srrc.usda.gov From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 12:52:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA13219 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hod.tera.com (hod.tera.com [207.108.223.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA13213; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [207.108.223.153]) by hod.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA14146; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:51:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA16815; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709111951.MAA16815@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: <199709111842.LAA25652@usr07.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Sep 11, 97 06:42:56 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ache@nagual.pp.ru, dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Terry Lambert: > [[ ... ]] > > ...So it's a one line change forever after. > > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). > > How about ``xtrix''? I'm partial to X's... :-) gary kline From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 14:05:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17763 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hobbes.saturn-tech.com (drussell@drussell.internode.net [198.161.228.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17725; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by hobbes.saturn-tech.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA25705; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:03:03 -0600 (MDT) From: Doug Russell Reply-To: Doug Russell To: heller@cdnow.com cc: dg@root.com, ache@nagual.pp.ru, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: <199709111420.KAA26227@daria.cdnow.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, A. Karl Heller wrote: > > Well, if you understood what a trademark was, then you wouldn't be saying > > that. That "xtetris" implies or indicates the qualities of the "tetris" game > > by using the word in the name is plenty enough for it to be a violation of > > the trademark. > > I guess I better not install any "Windows" in my house then. > > *grin* :) I trademark only applies to the particular good(s) and/or service(s) registered. If I pop into my handy-dandy trademark database, (the US in this example) there are 234 hits on "windows". Here's the register page for the one we are probably interested in follows. Note the section "GOODS/SERVICES". --- CUT --- MARK : MICROSOFT WINDOWS STATUS TEXT : REGISTERED REGISTRATION NO : 1959130 REGISTRATION DATE : 27 FEB 1996 PUBLICATION DATE : 26 APR 1994 SERIAL NUMBER : 74-198891 FILING DATE : 28 AUG 1991 REGISTER : PRINCIPAL MARK DRAWING CODE : (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS AND/OR NUMBERS DESIGN SEARCH CODE : 070702 261313 261321 ORIGINAL OWNER : Microsoft Corporation WASHINGTON - CORPORATION One Microsoft Way Redmond WASHINGTON 98052 CORRESP. ADDR : William O. Ferron, Jr. Seed And Berry 6300 Columbia Center 701 Fifth Avenue Seattle, Washington 98104-7092 ATTORNEY NAME : William O. Ferron, Jr. INTERNAT. CLASS : 09 U.S. CLASS : 21 23 26 36 38 DETAILED STATUS : Registered BASIS : Intent to Use PSEUDO MARK : MICRO-SOFT WINDOWS 2(f) LIMITATION : as to "WINDOWS" OWNER OF OTHER : (0)1200236 (0)1252912 (0)1256083 (0)1259874 (0)1673353 (0)1682075 AND OTHERS. GOODS/SERVICES: IC 09; US 21 23 26 36 38; computers and components therefor, computer pe ripherals, and computer programs in the field of graphical applications, and manuals therefor sold as a unit. FIRST USE: 19910827 ; FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19910827 ----------------------------- TITLE HISTORY ----------------------- Type: Undefined Reel/Frame: 1204/0287 Assignor: MICROSOFT CORPORATION Assignee: MICROSOFT CORPORATION (WASHINGTON - CORPORATION) ONE MICROSOFT WAY REDMOND, WA 98052 Date Signed : 19931101 Date Recorded : 19940809 Details: MERGER AND CHANGE OF NAME EFFECTIVE NOVEMBER 1, 1993 (SEE DOCUMENT FOR DETAILS) ---------------------------------- Type: Undefined Reel/Frame: 1253/0274 Assignor: MICROSOFT CORPORATION Assignee: MICROSOFT CORPORATION (WASHINGTON - CORPORATION) ONE MICROSOFT WAY REDMOND, WA 98052 Date Signed : 19931101 Date Recorded : 19941121 Details: MERGER, EFFECTIVE ON NOVERMBER 1, 1993 . ---------------------------------- Later...... From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 14:10:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18257 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hobbes.saturn-tech.com (drussell@drussell.internode.net [198.161.228.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18237; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by hobbes.saturn-tech.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA25831; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:09:28 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:09:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Doug Russell To: heller@cdnow.com cc: dg@root.com, ache@nagual.pp.ru, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: <199709111420.KAA26227@daria.cdnow.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Oh ya... I forgot I was going to include this too.... :) This is the wares/services listed for the TETRIS trademark: IC 28; US 02 22 23 38; games and playthings; namely, action figures; bagatelle games; bath toys; beanbag games; board games; bop bags; video game, carrying cases, holders, racks and storage cases for home video game systems and video game cartridges; card games; dart guns; decorative wind socks; dolls; electronic exercise mats interactive with a video game display; electronic game equipment for playing video games; electronic game programs; electronic toys with a clock or timepiece feature, hand-held electronic toys; toy kaleidoscopes; kites, magnetic slates; nonelectronic hand-held games; pinball games; player-operated electronic controllers for electronic video game machines; plush dolls; puppets; jigsaw puzzles; ring toss games; target sets composed of targets and projectiles; toy balloons, toy banks; toy binoculars, toy bowling sets composed of bowling pins and bowling balls; toy figures mountable on pencils and pens; toy light guns interactive with a video game display; toy vehicles; water-activated bagatelle games, wind-up toys, and yo-yos. International Class 28 is things like games, toys, sports equipment, BTW. Later...... From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 14:11:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18373 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr03.primenet.com (tlambert@usr03.primenet.com [206.165.6.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18360 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr03.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA10788; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:11:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709112111.OAA10788@usr03.primenet.com> Subject: Re: lousy disk perf. under cpu load (was IDE vs SCSI) To: mal@algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:11:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199709111931.VAA01882@kairos> from "Mats Lofkvist" at Sep 11, 97 09:31:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The interrupt sharing of the ncr and ahc controllers indeed seemed > to be the problem. This should not be the case. The only thing I can think of is that the difference in shared vs. unshared is really abysmal for shared bacuase of the "did you generate this interrupt?" that gets asked in the shared case. I *thought* it was asked in all cases, shared or unshared, so the difference you are seeing really surprises me. You might want to volunteer to test code for Stefan, since you can apparently repeat the problem reliably. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 14:12:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18482 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr03.primenet.com (tlambert@usr03.primenet.com [206.165.6.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18473 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr03.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA10852; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:12:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709112112.OAA10852@usr03.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Strange output in "Top" To: gjohnson@nola.srrc.usda.gov (Glenn Johnson) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:12:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <34184980.49639858@nola.srrc.usda.gov> from "Glenn Johnson" at Sep 11, 97 02:41:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just did a "make world" on my -current SMP system. I started up a > lengthy (weeks to complete) calculation and then checked 'top'. The WCPU > and CPU fields give me extremely low numbers. When no other processes > are running, the WCPU and CPU field hover around 0-1% for the > calculation process and the %idle field is around 98-99%. Strangely, if > I increase the system load, the WCPU and CPU %values go up, and keep > going up as the load goes up, but not to what I think they should be. > What the values should be is about 50% (100% of a single CPU) with no > other activity. The percentage of this process should decrease as I > increase the load. The idle processes went away; the non-accounting for them is probably the difference you are seeing. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 14:29:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA21166 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from munich.netsurf.de (laurin.munich.netsurf.de [194.64.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21125 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diroxbsd.dx (ns1246.munich.netsurf.de [195.180.235.246]) by munich.netsurf.de (8.8.4/8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02718; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:26:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dirk@localhost) by diroxbsd.dx (8.8.7/8.8.5) id XAA00222; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:26:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970911232642.31700@diroxbsd.dx> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:26:42 +0200 From: Dirk Roehrdanz To: Ian Kallen Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2940UW broken in current? References: <3.0.3.32.19970910174437.012b1ad0@mail.gamespot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74e In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970910174437.012b1ad0@mail.gamespot.com>; from Ian Kallen on Wed, Sep 10, 1997 at 05:44:37PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sep 10, Ian Kallen wrote: > > I just installed current on a box with an Adaptec 2940 Ultra/Ultra W > (SCSISelect v1.23). > > It's stalling whilst detecting the CD (vanilla Toshiba, I've run 'em > on various 2.2 and 2.1 installations for a long time...) - spends about 5 > minutes on it: > > > Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > chip0: rev 0x01 on pci0.0.0 > chip1: rev 0x02 on pci0.7.0 > ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 10 on > pci0.13.0 > ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs > ahc0: waiting for scsi devices to settle > scbus0 at ahc0 bus 0 > sd0 at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 > sd0: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd0: Direct-Access 1013MB (2074880 512 byte sectors) > sd1 at scbus0 target 1 lun 0 > sd1: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 ^ ^^^^^^^^ > sd1: Direct-Access 2049MB (4197405 512 byte sectors) > ahc0:A:4: refuses WIDE negotiation. Using 8bit transfers Do you have set "Initiate Wide Negotiation " to "yes" for this target id ? I think it should be set to "no", because it's not a wide scsi device. > > -- > Ian Kallen ian@gamespot.com > Director of Technology and Web Administration > SpotMedia Communications > http://www.gamespot.com/ http://www.videogamespot.com/ > Regards Dirk From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 14:37:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA22763 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22746; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11831; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA03350; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:35:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:35:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca Reply-To: hoek@hwcn.org To: Terry Lambert cc: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= , dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: <199709111842.LAA25652@usr07.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). I'd been thinking "sirtet" would be somehow appropriate. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 15:07:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA24847 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hobbes.saturn-tech.com (drussell@drussell.internode.net [198.161.228.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24819; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by hobbes.saturn-tech.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA27001; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:05:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:05:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Doug Russell To: Tim Vanderhoek cc: Terry Lambert , =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= , dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). > > I'd been thinking "sirtet" would be somehow appropriate. They'd still complain. Do you think MS would let someone call a windowing system or OS swodniW? That does have a nifty ring to it, doesn't it? :) Something like blockdrop is probably a better idea. Later...... From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 15:19:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25998 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bofh.noc.best.net (rone@ennui.org [205.149.163.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25966; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rone@localhost) by bofh.noc.best.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) id PAA07767; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:18:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Ron Echeverri Message-Id: <199709112218.PAA07767@bofh.noc.best.net> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: from Tim Vanderhoek at "Sep 11, 97 05:35:28 pm" To: current@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:18:56 -0700 (PDT) X-GmbH: Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tim Vanderhoek writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). I'd been thinking "sirtet" would be somehow appropriate. Or "grgevf". rone -- Ron Echeverri Systems/Usenet Administration "This is _my_ ISP, _i_ do the Best Internet Communications, Inc. ass-kicking around here!" -rpwhite From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 15:30:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26831 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26771; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12520; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:26:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id RAA19741; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:25:43 -0500 Message-ID: <19970911172543.53338@right.PCS> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:25:43 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Doug Russell Cc: heller@cdnow.com, dg@root.com, ache@nagual.pp.ru, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... References: <199709111420.KAA26227@daria.cdnow.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Doug Russell on Sep 09, 1997 at 03:09:28PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sep 09, 1997 at 03:09:28PM -0600, Doug Russell wrote: > > Oh ya... I forgot I was going to include this too.... :) > > This is the wares/services listed for the TETRIS trademark: > > IC 28; US 02 22 23 38; games and playthings; namely, action figures; > bagatelle games; bath toys; beanbag games; board games; bop bags; > video game, carrying cases, holders, racks and storage cases for home > video game systems and video game cartridges; card games; dart guns; > decorative wind socks; dolls; electronic exercise mats interactive with > a video game display; electronic game equipment for playing video games; > electronic game programs; electronic toys with a clock or timepiece > feature, hand-held electronic toys; toy kaleidoscopes; kites, magnetic > slates; nonelectronic hand-held games; pinball games; player-operated > electronic controllers for electronic video game machines; plush dolls; > puppets; jigsaw puzzles; ring toss games; target sets composed of > targets and projectiles; toy balloons, toy banks; toy binoculars, toy > bowling sets composed of bowling pins and bowling balls; toy figures > mountable on pencils and pens; toy light guns interactive with a video > game display; toy vehicles; water-activated bagatelle games, wind-up > toys, and yo-yos. Wait a minute, I don't see 'computer software' listed there. Or is it assumed that "electronic game programs" mean computer software? -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 15:38:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA27599 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from micron.efn.org (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27591; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mini@localhost) by micron.efn.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA12434; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970911153720.27685@micron.efn.org> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:37:20 -0700 From: Jonathan Mini To: Doug Russell Cc: Tim Vanderhoek , Terry Lambert , =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= , dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... Reply-To: Jonathan Mini References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76e In-Reply-To: ; from Doug Russell on Thu, Sep 11, 1997 at 04:05:42PM -0600 X-files: The Truth is Out There. Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Doug Russell stands accused of saying : Why not call it 'blocks' ? Short, sweet, and doesn't look close enough to me :) > > On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > > > On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). > > > > I'd been thinking "sirtet" would be somehow appropriate. > > They'd still complain. Do you think MS would let someone call a windowing > system or OS swodniW? That does have a nifty ring to it, doesn't it? :) > > Something like blockdrop is probably a better idea. > > Later...... > > -- Jonathan Mini (j_mini@efn.org) Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693 Eugene, Or 97405 From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 15:59:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA00613 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from daria.cdnow.com ([209.83.166.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA00520; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from heller@localhost) by daria.cdnow.com (8.7.5/8.6.7) id SAA00581; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:50:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Karl Heller" Message-Id: <199709112250.SAA00581@daria.cdnow.com> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... To: drussell@saturn-tech.com (Doug Russell) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hoek@hwcn.org, tlambert@primenet.com, ache@nagual.pp.ru, dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: heller@cdnow.com In-Reply-To: from "Doug Russell" at Sep 11, 97 04:05:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > > On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). > > > > I'd been thinking "sirtet" would be somehow appropriate. > They'd still complain. Do you think MS would let someone call a windowing > system or OS swodniW? That does have a nifty ring to it, doesn't it? :) > Something like blockdrop is probably a better idea. > Later...... Hmm. I wonder if they would get upset of "Doors" by "MacroSoft". =) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- A. Karl Heller Senior Systems Engineer CDnow Inc. http://cdnow.com From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 16:50:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA08908 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gamespot.com (ns2.gamespot.com [206.169.18.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08867 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tiramisu.gamespot.com (tiramisu.gamespot.com [206.169.18.119]) by gamespot.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09160; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970911165127.01ca5860@mail.gamespot.com> X-Sender: ian@mail.gamespot.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:51:27 -0700 To: Dirk Roehrdanz From: Ian Kallen Subject: Re: 2940UW broken in current? Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19970911232642.31700@diroxbsd.dx> References: <3.0.3.32.19970910174437.012b1ad0@mail.gamespot.com> <3.0.3.32.19970910174437.012b1ad0@mail.gamespot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Turning wide negotiation off on device 4 (the CDROM) in SCSISelect fixed it, thanks! At 11:26 PM 9/11/97 +0200, Dirk Roehrdanz wrote: >> sd0: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 >> sd0: Direct-Access 1013MB (2074880 512 byte sectors) >> sd1 at scbus0 target 1 lun 0 >> sd1: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > ^ > ^^^^^^^^ >> sd1: Direct-Access 2049MB (4197405 512 byte sectors) >> ahc0:A:4: refuses WIDE negotiation. Using 8bit transfers > >Do you have set "Initiate Wide Negotiation " to "yes" for this target id ? >I think it should be set to "no", because it's not a wide scsi device. > -- Ian Kallen ian@gamespot.com Director of Technology and Web Administration SpotMedia Communications http://www.gamespot.com/ http://www.videogamespot.com/ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 17:11:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10865 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@spain-37.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10854 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05295 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:22:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:22:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2940UW broken in current? In-Reply-To: <19970911232642.31700@diroxbsd.dx> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Dirk Roehrdanz wrote: > On Sep 10, Ian Kallen wrote: > > > > I just installed current on a box with an Adaptec 2940 Ultra/Ultra W > > (SCSISelect v1.23). > > > > It's stalling whilst detecting the CD (vanilla Toshiba, I've run 'em > > on various 2.2 and 2.1 installations for a long time...) - spends about 5 > > minutes on it: > > > > > > Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > > chip0: rev 0x01 on pci0.0.0 > > chip1: rev 0x02 on pci0.7.0 > > ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 10 on > > pci0.13.0 > > ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs > > ahc0: waiting for scsi devices to settle > > scbus0 at ahc0 bus 0 > > sd0 at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 > > sd0: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > sd0: Direct-Access 1013MB (2074880 512 byte sectors) > > sd1 at scbus0 target 1 lun 0 > > sd1: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > ^ > ^^^^^^^^ > > sd1: Direct-Access 2049MB (4197405 512 byte sectors) > > ahc0:A:4: refuses WIDE negotiation. Using 8bit transfers > > Do you have set "Initiate Wide Negotiation " to "yes" for this target id ? > I think it should be set to "no", because it's not a wide scsi device. > That shouldn't cause it to bomb out at all. I have wide negotiation for all my devices set to yes, yet NONE of them are wide devices. Works like a charm. - alex From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 18:48:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18309 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18268; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA13673; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:34:27 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199709120134.CAA13673@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: heller@cdnow.com, dg@root.com, ache@nagual.pp.ru, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:43:57 -0000." <199709111843.LAA25674@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:34:27 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I guess I better not install any "Windows" in my house then. > > > > *grin* > > That's not a problem, so long as your house doesn't resemble Bills... Besides, I'll bet they're not broken anyway - they couldn't be considered similar. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 18:48:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18318 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18275; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA13656; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:32:54 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199709120132.CAA13656@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: ache@nagual.pp.ru (=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=), dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:42:56 -0000." <199709111842.LAA25652@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:32:54 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). Agreed, but I prefer Sir-Tet ;-P > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 18:53:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18871 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18819; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA14207; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:52:42 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199709120152.CAA14207@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Julian Elischer cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Doug Rabson. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:30:47 PDT." <199709111830.LAA15114@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:52:42 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I haven't heard from Doug since June 3. > > Has anyone any information as to what happenned to him? > > If not, maybe one of our UK members might like to go to: > Doug Rabson (NLSYSTEMS-DOM) > 33 The Chase > Edgware, Middlesex, HA8 5DW > UK > > and try find out what happenned? > Well, he logged onto freefall on August 11. I can give him a ring if you think he's really missing..... -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 19:10:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA20050 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA20013; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA12427; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd012424; Fri Sep 12 02:03:15 1997 Message-ID: <3418A2C2.31DFF4F5@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:02:42 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Somers CC: Julian Elischer , current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Doug Rabson. References: <199709120152.CAA14207@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Somers wrote: > > > I haven't heard from Doug since June 3. > > > > Has anyone any information as to what happenned to him? > > > > If not, maybe one of our UK members might like to go to: > > Doug Rabson (NLSYSTEMS-DOM) > > 33 The Chase > > Edgware, Middlesex, HA8 5DW > > UK > > > > and try find out what happenned? > > > > Well, he logged onto freefall on August 11. > > I can give him a ring if you think he's really missing..... > -- > Brian , > > Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... that's good news.. 1 month is maybe ok, 3 is a bit too long.. Mike Prichard must have eventually turned up too, as he now has a 'vacation' proggram running on freefall saying he'll be away for a while.. julian From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 19:51:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA23046 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23041; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-63.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.63]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA13115; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:51:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA12270; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:25:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709120225.VAA12270@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-reply-to: Message from Doug Russell of "Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:03:03 MDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:25:52 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Doug Russel writes: > > On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, A. Karl Heller wrote: > > > > Well, if you understood what a trademark was, then you wouldn't be saying > > > that. That "xtetris" implies or indicates the qualities of the "tetris" game > > > by using the word in the name is plenty enough for it to be a violation of > > > the trademark. > > > > I guess I better not install any "Windows" in my house then. > > > > *grin* > > :) > > I trademark only applies to the particular good(s) and/or service(s) > registered. If I pop into my handy-dandy trademark database, (the US in > this example) there are 234 hits on "windows". Here's the register page > for the one we are probably interested in follows. Note the section > "GOODS/SERVICES". > > --- CUT --- > > MARK : MICROSOFT WINDOWS > > STATUS TEXT : REGISTERED [snip] Notice its "Microsoft Windows" that is trademarked. A judge ruled they couldn't tradmark simply "Windows". Trademark law isn't like copyright or patent law. A big bully can wrestle your trademark away from you simply by applying it to a larger audience while you were not watching. Registered or not, a trademark is not automatically national or international. You actually have to use it and defend it to keep it. Rename the port with two xx's in it and hear from Exxon's lawyers. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 21:41:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01035 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01027 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13437; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709120440.VAA13437@austin.polstra.com> To: bsdcur@shadows.aeon.net Subject: Re: cvsup In-Reply-To: <199709111006.NAA08473@shadows.aeon.net> References: <199709111006.NAA08473@shadows.aeon.net> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: current@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:40:45 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199709111006.NAA08473@shadows.aeon.net>, mika ruohotie wrote: > uh, i know this is hardly current "feature", but on my other > current machine, desktop at work, behind a firewall, cores cvsup > whenever i try to start it. > > i get the following error: > > moonshade# cvsup -P - /etc/internat.freebsd.org & > [1] 13986 > moonshade# > > *** > *** runtime error: > *** Segmentation violation - possible attempt to dereference NIL > *** pc = 0x82bac18 = Cat + 0x18 in ../src/text/Text.m3 > *** > > > [1] + abort (core dumped) cvsup -P - /etc/internat.freebsd.org > moonshade# > > > anyone wish to see the core itself? I might want to, but don't send it to me yet. First, a couple of questions: Which version of CVSup are you using? (Output of "cvsup -v" please.) Which distribution of it did you install? (Static binary, installed the package, built the port.) Also, please send me the supfile that you're using. Thanks, John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth PS - For the fastest results in the future, "Please report CVSup bugs to cvsup-bugs@polstra.com." :-) From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 11 22:58:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA06627 for current-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06617 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA02747; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:58:55 +0200 (SAT) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA07733; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:01:39 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199709120601.IAA07733@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: John Polstra cc: bsdcur@shadows.aeon.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvsup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:01:39 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Polstra wrote: > > moonshade# cvsup -P - /etc/internat.freebsd.org & > > [1] 13986 > > moonshade# > > > > *** > > *** runtime error: > > *** Segmentation violation - possible attempt to dereference NIL > > *** pc = 0x82bac18 = Cat + 0x18 in ../src/text/Text.m3 > > *** > > > > > > [1] + abort (core dumped) cvsup -P - /etc/internat.freebsd.org > > moonshade# There are some deltas in ports/www/apache that have been known to do this. The secret is to blow away ports/www/apache and try again. (I thought I got this trick from you, JDP? :-) ) M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 00:40:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA13379 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [156.153.255.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA13370 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postbox.india.hp.com (postbox.india.hp.com [15.10.45.1]) by palrel3.hp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id AAA20224 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709120740.AAA20224@palrel3.hp.com> Received: from localhost by postbox.india.hp.com with ESMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA167569787; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:06:27 +0530 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:06:27 +0530 From: A Joseph Koshy Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk pw> Due to the legal 'situation' with the trademark owner, all files with pw> "tetris" in the name have been rather hastily removed from the cvs tree. At first I thought this was a joke :(. I'm not very familiar (or impressed) by the US legal way of doing these things, but why would a source file with `tetris' in its name be a violation of some companies trademark? The last I noted, the FreeBSD project wasn't selling any product using the product name `tetris'. The implications of this `situation' are ridiculous; does this mean that I cannot save my days work in a file named `footetris' without running the risk of legal action?. How many other trademarks and servicemarks do I need to keep in mind when minding my own life? How many other files in the FreeBSD source tree are to be deleted as one or the other corporation begins to assert their ``intellectual property rights''? Will the current deletions form a precedent that could be used against the project at a later time? Now, I can understand the reluctance of the FreeBSD team to get into a legal scrap out of which only the local lawyers on both sides can profit. But as a project we need to protect our efforts, and I would hate to see FreeBSD die because of the imcomprehensibility of any particular societies legal system. Would it help to move the "administrative center" (whatever that means) of the FreeBSD project to a country with a saner legal system? Some of the european countries (eg:- Sweden) have societies with a better record in these matters. Where will this trend end, and how best do we protect FreeBSD from being destroyed by similar direct/indirect threat? A similar incident that comes to mind is the removal of MIDI files of W. Classical pieces by american composers from some of the prominent classical MIDI sites on the 'net. Even music (as opposed to specific performances) can be `owned' by corporations in the US, it seems :( :(. Similarly the recent US patents on traditional medicines available on the Indian subcontinent, (despite there being documented use of these in indian society for about 5000 years :(). An Indian agency fought against some of the patents in US courts and won in a few cases, but the whole process was ruinously expensive. Either way, it looks like we have to pay someone in the US, either lawyers or corporations to use Indias own natural resources, under the current ``intellectual property'' scheme. Koshy My Personal Opinions Only! From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 00:51:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA14289 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA14266; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA15105; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:22:15 +0200 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA08576; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:58:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id JAA04526; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:50:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970912095036.40322@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:50:36 +0200 From: Philippe Regnauld To: Terry Lambert Cc: ????????????? , dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... References: <199709111842.LAA25652@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Description: Main Body X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199709111842.LAA25652@usr07.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Thu, Sep 11, 1997 at 06:42:56PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). Pentris (5 shapes) or Quadris (4 blocks each). -- -- Phil -[ Philippe Regnauld / Systems Administrator / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]- -[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E PGP Key: finger regnauld@hotel.prosa.dk ]- From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 01:54:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA18436 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxmail4.ox.ac.uk (oxmail4.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA18431 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from njl2.materials.ox.ac.uk by oxmail4 with SMTP (PP); Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:54:32 +0100 Received: by njl2.materials.ox.ac.uk (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) for current@FreeBSD.ORG id JAA08856; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:54:31 +0100 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:54:31 +0100 From: neil.long@materials.oxford.ac.uk (Neil J Long) Message-Id: <9709120954.ZM8854@njl2.materials.ox.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Network problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE 486/33 3Com 3c509 vs. Accton NE2000 clone UTP interfaces amanda-2.3.0 Amanda server - SGI Challenge-S, amanda-2.3.0 (plus XFS patches) I use the amanda package to backup a mix of unix systems and have had problems with a FreeBSD 2.2.x system for quite some time. The client PC will lose connectivity until the network interface is down/up using ifconfig. This was using a 3Com (ep0) card on a 486/33 running 2.2-STABLE (cvsupd frequently). I could never find anything in the log files which gave direct evidence for a problem other than routed complaining, this was infrequent and (of course) would never occur when I sat on the console and checked (netstat -m always seems fine even when the interface is locked). I dug out an old ne2000 clone and switched over to ed0 and backups work fine now (well no problems yet but they are infrequent) but interestingly arpwatch logged the following where the MAC is the amanda tape server (SGI Challenge S). Sep 12 01:00:51 njl arpwatch: 8:0:69:7:76:6b sent bad hardware format 0x4055 Sep 12 01:00:51 njl arpwatch: 8:0:69:7:76:6b sent bad hardware format 0x80aa Sep 12 01:00:51 njl arpwatch: 8:0:69:7:76:6b sent bad hardware format 0xa8aa I wondered if anyone could give me some hints as to what this may mean or where to look next. I have never had any other problems with the 3Com card only with amanda and arpwatch has never logged these messages until I switched over. Yours Puzzled of Oxford Neil From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 03:05:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22384 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:05:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comp.polyu.edu.hk (csns02.COMP.POLYU.EDU.HK [158.132.25.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA22378 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from csasync03.COMP.POLYU.EDU.HK by comp.polyu.edu.hk (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA15002; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:03:43 +0800 Message-ID: <340F2586.5178@comp.polyu.edu.hk> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 14:17:58 -0700 From: CHAN yiu wah Reply-To: c5666305@comp.polyu.edu.hk Organization: Hong Kong Polytechnic University X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: subscribe freebsd-curent Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk help From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 05:04:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28111 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom1.netcom.com (mvh@netcom3.netcom.com [192.100.81.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28090; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mvh@localhost) by netcom1.netcom.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA00234; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709121203.FAA00234@netcom1.netcom.com> From: "Michael V. Harding" To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk CC: tlambert@primenet.com, ache@nagual.pp.ru, dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19970912095036.40322@deepo.prosa.dk> (message from Philippe Regnauld on Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:50:36 +0200) Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 4tris. :) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:50:36 +0200 From: Philippe Regnauld Cc: ????????????? , dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199709111842.LAA25652@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Description: Main Body X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 2c95c015b1ce02152abffdccc181a8e8 Terry Lambert writes: > > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). Pentris (5 shapes) or Quadris (4 blocks each). -- -- Phil -[ Philippe Regnauld / Systems Administrator / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]- -[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E PGP Key: finger regnauld@hotel.prosa.dk ]- From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 05:18:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28973 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:18:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de [141.31.112.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28939; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:18:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA25518; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:16:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <199709121216.OAA25518@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: <199709120132.CAA13656@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> from Brian Somers at "Sep 12, 97 02:32:54 am" To: brian@awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:16:24 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, ache@nagual.pp.ru, dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). > > Agreed, but I prefer Sir-Tet ;-P How about ``ANT'' -- ANT Not Tetris? Wolfgang > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > > -- > Brian , > > Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... > > > From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 07:42:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA07586 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:42:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA07578 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jupiter.Mcs.Net (karl@Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.88]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA03868 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:42:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.Mcs.Net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id JAA12168; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:42:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19970912094231.48481@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:42:31 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Problems? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.64 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi foolks, Anyone got an idea what this means? de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 8|512) de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 1024) de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (switching to store-and-forward mode The salient parts of the boot messages are: Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Tue Sep 9 19:20:42 CDT 1997 karl@Codebase.mcs.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/MCS_STANDARD CPU: Pentium Pro (199.43-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x619 Stepping=9 Features=0xfbff real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) avail memory = 128565248 (125552K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: Correcting Natoma config for non-SMP chip0: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x00 on pci0.7.1 de0: rev 0x22 int a irq 9 on pci0.10.0 de0: SMC 9332BDT 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de0: address 00:e0:29:09:96:32 de1: rev 0x22 int a irq 10 on pci0.11.0 de1: SMC 9332BDT 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de1: address 00:e0:29:09:94:7d -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/~karl | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex modem support is now available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| 56kbps DIGITAL ISDN DOV on analog lines! Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | 2 FULL DS-3 Internet links; 400Mbps B/W Internal From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 08:54:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA12416 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12409 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA17500; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709121551.IAA17500@austin.polstra.com> To: Mark Murray cc: bsdcur@shadows.aeon.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvsup In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:01:39 +0200." <199709120601.IAA07733@greenpeace.grondar.za> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:51:59 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There are some deltas in ports/www/apache that have been known to do > this. True, but the symptoms are different here. This is something else. John From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 08:56:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA12639 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from helmholtz.salk.edu (helmholtz.salk.edu [198.202.70.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12609; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pauling.salk.edu (pauling [198.202.70.108]) by helmholtz.salk.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA06656; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:53:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Bartol To: Brian Somers cc: Terry Lambert , =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= , dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: <199709120132.CAA13656@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How about "sint" or "stint" which would stand for "Sir-Tet Is Not Tetris" Tom On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Brian Somers wrote: > > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). > > Agreed, but I prefer Sir-Tet ;-P > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > > -- > Brian , > > Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... > > > From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 10:11:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18737 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18557; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.6/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA03424; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:53:02 +0300 (EEST) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:53:01 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: Wolfgang Helbig cc: chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: <199709121216.OAA25518@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [I snipped all the names I recognised as being on the lists from cc:s ...] On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Wolfgang Helbig wrote: > > > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). > > > > Agreed, but I prefer Sir-Tet ;-P > > How about ``ANT'' -- ANT Not Tetris? You mean AINT -- AINT Is Not Tetris ? Sander From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 10:19:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA19657 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19646 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA20751; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:18:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199709121718.KAA20751@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Problems? In-Reply-To: <19970912094231.48481@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> from Karl Denninger at "Sep 12, 97 09:42:31 am" To: karl@Mcs.Net (Karl Denninger) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi foolks, > > Anyone got an idea what this means? > > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 8|512) > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 1024) > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (switching to store-and-forward > mode It means that the DC21xxx chip could not bus master data out of memory fast enough to keep up with the transmit stream. I note in your dmesg your using the bus master IDE driver, does the problem go away when you turn this off. If so you are experiencing PCI bus mastering saturation, if not then I don't know what is causing it :-(. Ooopsss.... you don't seem to have any devices hooked to that PIIX3, any other busy PCI devices? Oh wait, you seem to have heavily edited the dmesg output, what I can't see I can't use to try and explain where the problem might be :-( > The salient parts of the boot messages are: > Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. > Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 > The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. > FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Tue Sep 9 19:20:42 CDT 1997 > karl@Codebase.mcs.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/MCS_STANDARD > CPU: Pentium Pro (199.43-MHz 686-class CPU) > Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x619 Stepping=9 > Features=0xfbff > real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) > avail memory = 128565248 (125552K bytes) > Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > Correcting Natoma config for non-SMP > chip0: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.0 > chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.0 > ide_pci0: rev 0x00 on pci0.7.1 > de0: rev 0x22 int a irq 9 on pci0.10.0 > de0: SMC 9332BDT 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 > de0: address 00:e0:29:09:96:32 > de1: rev 0x22 int a irq 10 on pci0.11.0 > de1: SMC 9332BDT 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 > de1: address 00:e0:29:09:94:7d > > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin > http://www.mcs.net/~karl | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service > | NEW! K56Flex modem support is now available > Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| 56kbps DIGITAL ISDN DOV on analog lines! > Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | 2 FULL DS-3 Internet links; 400Mbps B/W Internal > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 10:25:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20619 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20605 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jupiter.Mcs.Net (karl@Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.88]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id MAA11349; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:25:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.Mcs.Net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id MAA02800; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:25:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19970912122533.15113@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:25:33 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Karl Denninger , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems? References: <19970912094231.48481@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <199709121718.KAA20751@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.64 In-Reply-To: <199709121718.KAA20751@GndRsh.aac.dev.com>; from Rodney W. Grimes on Fri, Sep 12, 1997 at 10:18:09AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Sep 12, 1997 at 10:18:09AM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > Hi foolks, > > > > Anyone got an idea what this means? > > > > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) > > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 8|512) > > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 1024) > > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (switching to store-and-forward > > mode > > It means that the DC21xxx chip could not bus master data out of memory > fast enough to keep up with the transmit stream. I note in your dmesg > your using the bus master IDE driver, does the problem go away when you > turn this off. If so you are experiencing PCI bus mastering saturation, > if not then I don't know what is causing it :-(. > > Ooopsss.... you don't seem to have any devices hooked to that PIIX3, > any other busy PCI devices? Oh wait, you seem to have heavily edited > the dmesg output, what I can't see I can't use to try and explain > where the problem might be :-( Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Tue Sep 9 19:20:42 CDT 1997 karl@Codebase.mcs.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/MCS_STANDARD CPU: Pentium Pro (199.43-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x619 Stepping=9 Features=0xfbff real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) avail memory = 128565248 (125552K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: Correcting Natoma config for non-SMP chip0: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x00 on pci0.7.1 de0: rev 0x22 int a irq 9 on pci0.10.0 de0: SMC 9332BDT 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de0: address 00:e0:29:09:96:32 de1: rev 0x22 int a irq 10 on pci0.11.0 de1: SMC 9332BDT 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de1: address 00:e0:29:09:94:7d ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 11 on pci0.12.0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0: waiting for scsi devices to settle scbus0 at ahc0 bus 0 sd0 at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 sd0: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0: Direct-Access 2170MB (4445380 512 byte sectors) sd0: with 5899 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 150 sectors/track sd1 at scbus0 target 1 lun 0 sd1: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1: Direct-Access 1006MB (2061108 512 byte sectors) sd1: with 2700 cyls, 9 heads, and an average 84 sectors/track sd2 at scbus0 target 3 lun 0 sd2: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2: Direct-Access 4095MB (8386733 512 byte sectors) sd2: with 3992 cyls, 19 heads, and an average 110 sectors/track vga0: rev 0x00 on pci0.14.0 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 not found at 0x280 ed1 not found at 0x300 sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A sio2: disabled, not probed. sio3: disabled, not probed. lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface lpt1 not found fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 not found at 0x1f0 aha0 not found at 0x330 aic0 not found at 0x340 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers de1: enabling 100baseTX port de0: enabling 10baseT port There's one disk adapter and two Fast Ethernet cards on the bus (including one at 100BaseTX); other than that, nothing. de0 doesn't produce this, but its running 10BaseT. de1 does, and its running in fast mode. Any other ideas? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/~karl | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex modem support is now available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| 56kbps DIGITAL ISDN DOV on analog lines! Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | 2 FULL DS-3 Internet links; 400Mbps B/W Internal From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 11:08:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA24620 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA24612 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA20866; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:07:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199709121807.LAA20866@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Problems? In-Reply-To: <19970912122533.15113@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> from Karl Denninger at "Sep 12, 97 12:25:33 pm" To: karl@Mcs.Net (Karl Denninger) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: karl@Mcs.Net, current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Thanks for the full info] > > There's one disk adapter and two Fast Ethernet cards on the bus (including > one at 100BaseTX); other than that, nothing. > > de0 doesn't produce this, but its running 10BaseT. de1 does, and its running > in fast mode. > > Any other ideas? What motherboard is the Pentium pro and what do the PCI latency timer values look like. Given your running ccd on a set of fast disks it may be pigging up the PCI bandwidth :-(. Who's bios (award/ami/??)? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 12:47:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03027 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:47:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02537 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bsdcur@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.7/8.8.3) id WAA26029; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:35:02 +0300 (EET DST) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199709121935.WAA26029@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: Re: cvsup In-Reply-To: <199709120440.VAA13437@austin.polstra.com> from John Polstra at "Sep 11, 97 09:40:45 pm" To: current@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:35:02 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: cvsup-bugs@polstra.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > mika ruohotie wrote: [my cvsup misbehaving] > > anyone wish to see the core itself? > I might want to, but don't send it to me yet. First, a couple of ok. > questions: Which version of CVSup are you using? (Output of "cvsup should be the latest, since i tried to remake it _few_ times to fix it using /usr/ports i just cvsup:ed. (before remaking i nuked it with pkg_delete) > -v" please.) Which distribution of it did you install? (Static moonshade# cvsup -v CVSup client Software version: REL_15_1 Protocol version: 15.2 moonshade# uh, originally may snap, but i ran it to current right after installation, been updating it to current every now and then... uh, but i _might_ have something bad in the system itself. it's been behaving well lately, even 'make world's go thru. (it's asus p2t4 p133 with 83mhz bus, thus making it 166). a while ago i had small probs. this appeared after 'make world' around the sep 4th. it _might_ be that, but considering that all other things work, and non GUI cvsup too, it might be the GUI part gotten hosed somehow. i use XFree 3.3 compiled from ports, S3V 1024x768 with 16bit color depth. > binary, installed the package, built the port.) Also, please send me built, few times, i never use packages. =) > the supfile that you're using. "normal", same one i scp:ed from my home machine, where it works. as i said, cvsup -g runs like a charm. actually, i have several supfiles, one for src/doc/ports, one for internat stuff, and one for ports only. the top of my supfile looks like: (host changes in the internat one) -- *default tag=. *default host=cvsup.FreeBSD.org *default prefix=/usr *default base=/usr/local/etc/cvsup *default release=cvs delete use-rel-suffix compress -- and bottom has either those or ports only or the uncommented ones, and all those three fail to start the GUI. -- src-all #src-eBones #src-secure doc-all ports-all -- > PS - For the fastest results in the future, "Please report CVSup bugs to > cvsup-bugs@polstra.com." :-) oh, right. i cc this to there, in case someone finds it useful, i'll keep it on the list... (i'm not sure if it's "real" cvsup bug...) uh, if you want the cores, do you want one or few? they come in bit different sizes... mickey From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 12:50:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03304 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from micron.efn.org (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03291; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mini@localhost) by micron.efn.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA14723; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970912124626.47170@micron.efn.org> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:46:26 -0700 From: Jonathan Mini To: Narvi Cc: Wolfgang Helbig , chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... Reply-To: Jonathan Mini References: <199709121216.OAA25518@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76e In-Reply-To: ; from Narvi on Fri, Sep 12, 1997 at 07:53:01PM +0300 X-files: The Truth is Out There. Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Narvi stands accused of saying : > > [I snipped all the names I recognised as being on the lists from cc:s ...] > > On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Wolfgang Helbig wrote: > > > > > PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). > > > > > > Agreed, but I prefer Sir-Tet ;-P > > > > How about ``ANT'' -- ANT Not Tetris? > > You mean AINT -- AINT Is Not Tetris ? > > Sander > How's about GNT -- for GNU's Not Tetris.. -- Jonathan Mini (j_mini@efn.org) Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693 Eugene, Or 97405 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 13:31:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06313 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06308 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02172; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709122029.NAA02172@austin.polstra.com> To: mika ruohotie cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvsup In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:35:02 +0300." <199709121935.WAA26029@shadows.aeon.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:29:57 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for the info about the CVSup crashes you've been having. > > binary, installed the package, built the port.) Also, please send me > > built, few times, i never use packages. =) Would you be willing to take a static binary that I've compiled with debugging symbols, run it under gdb, and (if it crashes) send me the stack backtrace (output of gdb's "where" command)? I haven't had good luck with M3 core dumps when shared libraries are involved. Also, unless our systems are fairly close in sync, there's a good chance that the gdb here won't be able to read a core file generated on your machine. It will also be interesting to see whether the static binary even fails at all. If it doesn't, I'll have something new for you to try. John From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 13:42:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07373 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ook.connect.ie (root@ook.connect.ie [194.106.128.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07343; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rincewind (dec@rincewind.connect.ie [194.106.128.3]) by ook.connect.ie (8.8.6/.44/NR) with SMTP id VAA19200; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:44:52 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199709122044.VAA19200@ook.connect.ie> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Declan Kelly" Organization: Connect-Ireland Internet To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:43:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... Reply-to: dec@connect.ie CC: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > How about ``ANT'' -- ANT Not Tetris? ANT is the name of a TCP/IP suite for the Acorn Archimedes (which was the world's first affordable RISC box, and is still popular in schools this side of the pond), but they probably wouldn't mind... > You mean AINT -- AINT Is Not Tetris ? Even better! Then you won't get GNU suing you for using the 3-letter "not" phrase ;-) Has anyone ported Hextris? I've seen it on Macintosh and Amiga: ftp://ftp.aminet.org/pub/aminet/game/think/AHextris.lha "Hextris like game, KickStart 2.04 only." 33K archive, so there's probably no source... let's have a look: ------------ -------- -------- ------ -------- AHextris.info 632 279 44.1% 92-04-09 AHextris 31072 13877 44.7% 92-04-09 AHextris.info 1581 793 50.2% 92-04-06 AHextris.doc.info 733 640 87.3% 92-04-06 InstallLib 52 52 100.0% 92-01-26 InstallLib.info 639 295 46.2% 92-04-06 install.script 957 461 48.2% 92-03-14 reqtools.library 21192 13946 65.8% 92-03-14 AHextris.doc 8325 3385 40.7% 92-04-11 ------------ -------- -------- ------ -------- 9 files 65183 33728 51.7% 97-09-12 Ah well.... From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 14:12:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09428 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09408; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id OAA28216; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:06:05 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199709122106.OAA28216@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... To: brian@awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:06:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, ache@nagual.pp.ru, dg@root.com, chad@dcfinc.com, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199709120132.CAA13656@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> from Brian Somers at "Sep 12, 97 02:32:54 am" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the things to generate a flurry of mail activity. You guys are getting goofy. Or should that be "yfoog", in case Eisner is listening? >> PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). > Agreed, but I prefer Sir-Tet ;-P Well, if anyone is keeping score, "Sir-Tet" is my vote. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 14:25:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10500 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr08.primenet.com (tlambert@usr08.primenet.com [206.165.6.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10454; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA26289; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:24:53 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709122124.OAA26289@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... To: chad@dcfinc.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:24:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199709122106.OAA28216@freebie.dcfinc.com> from "Chad R. Larson" at Sep 12, 97 02:06:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ ... ] It would be nice if someone would bell the cat first, before everyone discusses what coller to paint it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 14:53:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12367 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.detroit.mi.ameritech.net (mpdr0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net [206.141.193.243]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12359 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ameritech.net (pm100-06.dialip.mich.net [35.9.14.107]) by mailhost.detroit.mi.ameritech.net (8.8.3/8.8.3-AIMS) with ESMTP id RAA09812 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3419B9D0.A0B7A2CB@ameritech.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:53:20 -0400 From: Adam McDougall X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: IDE Bus mastering Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there any IDE bus mastering capabilities in 3.0? If there is I'd like to try using them if I arent already. I have an SiS 5571 chipset. Would I need and Intel? From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 15:09:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13297 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr08.primenet.com (tlambert@usr08.primenet.com [206.165.6.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13290 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA29030 for current@freebsd.org; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:09:36 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709122209.PAA29030@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: NFS client locking To: current@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:09:35 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would like to discuss NFS client locking implementation details. This is document constitutes a design rationale. NFS client locking requires the proxying of locks across the network. I believe NFS client locking needs to assert the lock locally, first, then if that is successful, assert it against the server, and if that is successful, return success. If the lock conflicts with a local process that also has the file open, the lock will be denied without generating wire traffic. If the lock conflicts with a process on another machine's lock, then the remote lock request will be denied. If the lock is denied by the remote machine, the local lock must be deasserted. Deasserting the local lock is fraught with peril. If the local lock has been coelesced, it may have upgraded or downgraded the locak during the coelesce. If the local lock is coelesced, it may have overlapped with other locks. If a an overlapping or upgraded or downgraded lock region is removed, then the previous lock, which was legitimately granted, will be destroyed. Therefore, to assert a lock, the client machine must: IF local_assert_uncoelesced_lock() == FAIL return FAIL ELSE IF remote_assert_lock() == FAIL local_deassert_uncoelesced_lock() return FAIL ENDIF local_coaelesce_lock() return SUCCESS ENDIF To deassert a lock, it must: local_decoelesce_lock() IF remote_deassert_lock() == FAIL local_coaelesce_lock() return FAIL ENDIF local_deassert_uncoelesced_lock() return SUCCESS In other words, delayed coelescing and delayed deletion. In order to implement this, the common locking code must move out of the per FS VOP_ADVLOCK() and into the system calls/VFS framework layer. In order to move the common locking code up, the access to per FS data structures must be removed. Specifically, the lock list must be removed from the inode and paced into the vnode, which is a filesystem independent opaque object. In both cases, the common locking code must respect uncoelesced locks as if they had been coelesced. It must examine both. In the case of a lock demotion or promotion, both the uncoelesced and coelesced locks must be respected, and the higher restriction enforced; this is equivalent to the conflicting requestor coming in either before a lock demotion or after a lock promotion, either of which cases it must be capable of handling anyway. In order to handle the intial "ELSE" case in the pseudocode, the remote_assert_lock() (implemented vy the NFS spcific VOP_ADVLOCK() call), must perform the proxy on behalf of the local system. For this to work properly, the VOP_ADVLOCK() function must provide a veto-based interface. That is, it must support the idea of returning "request allowed" or "request denied" to the common locking code. For NFS, this result will be the server acceptance or refusal of the proxied lock request. For all local FS's, this means VOP_ADVLOCK() will simply return "true", with the exception of multiplexing FS layers. For multiplexing FS layers (which combine more than one FS), the multiplexing layer must reconcile failures. Consider the cause of a union mount of two NFS filesystems. When the lock request is made to the union FS, the union FS must make a request for each underlying FS in the union. This is, effectively: for( fsp = fs1; fsp != NULL; fsp = fsp->next) { IF fsp->VOP_ADVLOCK(assert) == FAIL for( fsp2 = fs1; fsp2 != fsp; fsp2 = fsp2->next) { fsp2->VOP_ADVLOCK(deassert) } return FAIL ENDIF } return SUCCESS (Yes, union FS's are not a linked list; this is pseudo-code). It seems that these changes are required for NFS client locking to operate. Further benefits: While the NFS client locking code is under developement, local clients locks will be enforced against each other, even if they are not enforced against each other. Moving the locking code out of the per FS code mans only one locking implementation needs to be debugged, instead of one per FS type. Moving the locking code to a common area means less total code which means less things to potentially go wrong. Moving to a veto based interface simplifies the FS code, and the code necessary to implement an entirely new FS. The change is in keeping with the spirit of the Heidemann thesis on which the existing code is modelled. The code is already implemented, an in the FreeBSD core team's (Doug Rabson's) posession. Comments? Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 15:44:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15238 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15206; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15345; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:44:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id RAA05798; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:43:55 -0500 Message-ID: <19970912174354.49145@right.PCS> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:43:54 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Terry Lambert Cc: chad@dcfinc.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... References: <199709122106.OAA28216@freebie.dcfinc.com> <199709122124.OAA26289@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199709122124.OAA26289@usr08.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sep 09, 1997 at 09:24:51PM +0000 Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sep 09, 1997 at 09:24:51PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > [ ... ] > > It would be nice if someone would bell the cat first, before everyone > discusses what coller to paint it. Ah, but you can't bell the cat without a collar first, can you? Follow-ups set appropriately. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 15:55:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15893 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pahtoh.cwu.edu (root@pahtoh.cwu.edu [198.104.65.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15883 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by pahtoh.cwu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13057; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA21696; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:55:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Timmons To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Karl Denninger , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems? In-Reply-To: <199709121807.LAA20866@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been running -current on a P6NP5 for maybe 6 months with de0 a DE500-AA connected to a 100mb network. I'm not using any IDE controllers; rather a 3940. The only other card in the system is an ISA video card. I started seeing these messages in the last month or so, typically when updating /usr/src with CVS using an NFS mounted repository. I haven't done any digging but I am guessing that: revision 1.66 date: 1997/08/03 13:00:42; author: peter; state: Exp; lines: +546 -286 Merge Matt's if_de.c changes in. might have something to do with it... -Chris On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > [Thanks for the full info] > > > > > There's one disk adapter and two Fast Ethernet cards on the bus (including > > one at 100BaseTX); other than that, nothing. > > > > de0 doesn't produce this, but its running 10BaseT. de1 does, and its running > > in fast mode. > > > > Any other ideas? > > What motherboard is the Pentium pro and what do the PCI latency timer > values look like. Given your running ccd on a set of fast disks it > may be pigging up the PCI bandwidth :-(. Who's bios (award/ami/??)? > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD > From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 18:19:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23646 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23636 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id VAA10991; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:19:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id VAA07388; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:19:26 -0400 (EDT) To: Karl Denninger cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Problems? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:42:31 CDT." <19970912094231.48481@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:19:25 -0400 Message-ID: <7386.874113565@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Karl Denninger wrote in message ID <19970912094231.48481@Jupiter.Mcs.Net>: > Hi foolks, > > Anyone got an idea what this means? > > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 96|256) > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 8|512) > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (raising TX threshold to 1024) > de1: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow (switching to store-and-forward > mode According to Matt, this is a problem with the PCI bus on the m/b not being fast enough to handle the data. He says the Natoma is notoriously slow (which is why I saw the messages too) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 12 20:56:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00925 for current-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bob.tri-lakes.net ([207.3.81.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA00877 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.3.81.149] by bob.tri-lakes.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id pa272131 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:55:44 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199709111842.LAA25652@usr07.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:38:13 -0000 (GMT) From: Chris Dillon To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG, peter@spinner.dialix.com.au, chad@dcfinc.com, dg@root.com, (=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 11-Sep-97 Terry Lambert wrote: >PS: I'm partial to xtris. "tetris-like-game" is too much to type. 8-). I assume there are two versions (never played them) including a text version? How about 'textris'? ;-) --- Chris Dillon --- cdillon@tri-lakes.net --- Powered by FreeBSD, the best free OS on the planet ---- (http://www.freebsd.org) From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 13 04:55:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA01302 for current-outgoing; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 04:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA01297 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 04:55:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.7.3) id NAA04582; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:55:44 +0200 (MEST) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199709131155.NAA04582@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: IDE Bus mastering In-Reply-To: <3419B9D0.A0B7A2CB@ameritech.net> from Adam McDougall at "Sep 12, 97 05:53:20 pm" To: mcdougall@ameritech.net (Adam McDougall) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:55:44 +0200 (MEST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Adam McDougall who wrote: > Is there any IDE bus mastering capabilities in 3.0? If there is I'd like > to try using them if I arent already. I have an SiS 5571 chipset. Would > I need and Intel? Yes, there is Busmaster DMA support in -current, look in the LINT config file for an explantion how to use it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 13 10:58:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA16821 for current-outgoing; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from watcher.isl.net (ppp-48.isl.net [199.3.25.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA16810 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ortmann@localhost) by watcher.isl.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA00426 for current@freebsd.org; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:39:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Daniel Ortmann Message-Id: <199709131739.MAA00426@watcher.isl.net> Subject: Does this idea have merit? To: current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:39:47 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Since 'ps' is often run to find - all processes belonging to a user, - or all processes with a particular controlling tty, - or which instances of a binary are running (i.e. how many instances of 'spice' circuit simulations are running) ... would it make sense to enhance procfs to provide /proc/users/, /proc/users/binaries/, /proc/ttys/, and /proc/binaries/? Under these dirs we could perhaps have symlinks to the "real" processes. (Part of my motivation is to get the information from a scripting language such as perl ... without writing extensions.) On the other hand, maybe I'm missing something basic. Is there some other way to find out (without forking a /bin/ps): - the names and process info of all a user's processes? - the names and process info of all processes? - which processes are controlled by a given tty? - which processes have a given uid? This seems to be basic information that isn't conveniently available. Yes? No? -- Daniel Ortmann 507.288.7732 (h) ortmann@isl.net 2414 30 av NW, #D 507.253.6795 (w) ortmann@vnet.ibm.com Rochester, MN 55901 "PERL: The Swiss Army Chainsaw" From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 13 14:28:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00773 for current-outgoing; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00765 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA04838; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:34:45 +0200 (CEST) To: Daniel Ortmann cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Does this idea have merit? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:39:47 CDT." <199709131739.MAA00426@watcher.isl.net> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:34:44 +0200 Message-ID: <4836.874182884@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199709131739.MAA00426@watcher.isl.net>, Daniel Ortmann writes: >On the other hand, maybe I'm missing something basic. Is there >some other way to find out (without forking a /bin/ps): cat /proc/*/status | grep ... ? Extending the tree in procfs is not for the faint ... -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 13 20:06:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16146 for current-outgoing; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@haiti-112.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16125 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA02613 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:07:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:07:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do *you* have problems with floppies? In-Reply-To: <199709132104.OAA20111@usr08.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > Only the Intel 82077AA has FIFO's (the 82078 des to, but I don't > know what the heck it returns for a version ID -- anyone have one?). A quick web search revealed that Linux will identify four different "breeds" of 82078s (linux/drivers/block/floppy.c). > All other FDC chips with FIFO's are unprobeable, unless they > return a version ID. > > When you boot, you will see one of: > > fdc0: NEC 765 > fdc0: Intel 82077 > fdc0: NEC 72065B > fdc0: unknown IC type ff > > ...or *whatever* two digit hex value, other than 0x80, 0x81, or 0x90. > > The current driver code does not enable the FIFO. It would need to > have detected as an 82077, and then use the Configure command (0x13) > to clear bit 5 of command byte 2. It would set bits 0-3 to enable > a 16 byte threshold. Then it would need to use the Lock FIFO command > (0x94) to save the FIFO state across software resets. > > Then there would be additional code changes, as necessary, on top of > that. - alex From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 13 20:42:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17777 for current-outgoing; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:42:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17771 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.TransSys.COM (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA07327 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709140342.XAA07327@whizzo.TransSys.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: current@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: restore seems to be misbehaving Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:42:18 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just noticed restore(1) acting strangely on me. I don't know when it starting doing this exactly, as I don't normally restore files from my DAT tape with any regularity. When I run 'restore -t', I get a bunch of 'resync restore' errors. What's strange is that when I run 'dd if=/dev/rst0 bs=20b | restore -t -f -' instead, everythings works just fine. What really puzzles me is that when I ktrace the first case, I notice that the read(2) syscall is returning 32K bytes, rather than the 10K bytes that I expected: root@whizzo[136] # ktrace -t cnsu restore t Dump date: Sat Sep 13 10:15:07 1997 Dumped from: the epoch Level 0 dump of / on whizzo.TransSys.COM:/dev/sd0a Label: none resync restore, skipped 22 blocks resync restore, skipped 22 blocks resync restore, skipped 22 blocks resync restore, skipped 22 blocks resync restore, skipped 22 blocks resync restore, skipped 22 blocks resync restore, skipped 22 blocks resync restore, skipped 22 blocks resync restore, skipped 22 blocks 2 . 7680 ./usr 7943 ./cdrom 7946 ./dos 7762 ./tmp 7944 ./crypt 7945 ./devfs [....] and then doing the kdump: 7160 restore CALL open(0x78050,0,0) 7160 restore NAMI "/dev/rst0" 7160 restore RET open 6 7160 restore CALL read(0x6,0x89000,0x8000) 7160 restore RET read 32768/0x8000 subsequent reads of FD 6 also return 32768 bytes; the trailing garbage in the buffer are likely the cause of the 'resync restore' errors. What I don't get is why dd(1) doesn't have this problem. From a ktrace/kdump: 7191 dd CALL open(0xefbfdb7a,0,0) 7191 dd NAMI "/dev/rst0" 7191 dd RET open 6 7191 dd CALL fstat(0x6,0xefbfd9d8) 7191 dd RET fstat 0 7191 dd CALL ioctl(0x6,0x40406d02 ,0xefbfda38) 7191 dd RET ioctl 0 [...] 7191 dd CALL read(0x6,0x15000,0x8000) 7191 dd RET read 10240/0x2800 7191 dd CALL write(0x7,0x15000,0x2800) 7191 dd RET write 10240/0x2800 7191 dd CALL read(0x6,0x15000,0x8000) 7191 dd RET read 10240/0x2800 7191 dd CALL write(0x7,0x15000,0x2800) 7191 dd RET write 10240/0x2800 I dunno where to look next. Two programs, seemingly doing the same thing, are getting different results on the exact same tape. I'm running a fairly recent 3.0-current version, and am using a DDS-2 tape-changer driver which seems to be working OK.. FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Sep 6 14:52:56 EDT 1997 louie@whizzo.TransSys.COM:/usr/src/sys/compile/WHIZZO CPU: Pentium (132.62-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52b Stepping=11 Features=0x1bf real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) ncr0: rev 0x02 int a irq 15 on pci0.20.0 ncr0: minsync=25, maxsync=206, maxoffs=8, 16 dwords burst, normal dma fifo ncr0: single-ended, open drain IRQ driver st0 at scbus0 target 2 lun 0 st0: type 1 removable SCSI 2 st0: Sequential-Access st0: NCR quirks=0x2 st0: 5.0 MB/s (200 ns, offset 8) density code 0x13, 512-byte blocks, write-enabled louie