From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 24 06:18:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15702 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 24 May 1998 06:18:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA15692; Sun, 24 May 1998 06:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id PAA09116; Sun, 24 May 1998 15:18:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sun, 24 May 1998 15:18:35 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: andre@pipeline.ch (IBS / Andre Oppermann), grog@lemis.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD mailing lists with high latency References: <199805240230.TAA14659@hub.freebsd.org> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 24 May 1998 15:18:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Jonathan M. Bresler"'s message of "Sat, 23 May 1998 19:30:59 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jonathan M. Bresler" writes: > > > hub sends the messages to a number of different relays rather than > > > directly to each recipient. Some of these relays can be slow. To > > I get my mails directly from hub.FREEBSD.org. > > that's correct, we dont have a mail-relay for .ch. > any volunteers? for other top level domains we have > a number of relays....edu and com are excellent examples. Seems there is none for .no either. What would be the requirements for such a relay? How much traffic would it have to handle? -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 24 07:58:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26877 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 24 May 1998 07:58:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26869 for ; Sun, 24 May 1998 07:58:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.0.Beta7/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id QAA21437 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 24 May 1998 16:57:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id PAA02478 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 24 May 1998 15:19:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980524151930.A2468@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 15:19:30 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD mailing lists with high latency Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <356613CE.14DAE847@pipeline.ch> <19980523123204.P339@freebie.lemis.com> <19980523071229.A25554@keltia.freenix.fr> <35670288.CA74291C@pipeline.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.3i In-Reply-To: <35670288.CA74291C@pipeline.ch>; from IBS / Andre Oppermann on Sat, May 23, 1998 at 07:08:24PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4311 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to IBS / Andre Oppermann: > Grouping doesn't give much performance in this case since less than 5% > (IMO) of the recipcients have the same MX. Sorry, you're wrong. We use the mailertable feature of sendmail to make our own grouping... > You are still in the old UUCP times with your 'one copy to all *.fr > recipients'. I don't think that all *.fr subscribers have the same MX. > You can only do better with sendmail if you send, lets say, 100 messages > to the same MX. Nope, with the mailertable, _everything_ for *.fr goes to the french exploder, MX are not used at all (in truth they're used but only for the exploder itself; see "dig mx mail-relay.fr.freebsd.org"). Its is the exploder's job to use MX and distribute the mail. We have several shortcuts that way on hub for most TLD (.fr, .de, .au, and so on). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #60: Fri May 15 21:04:22 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 24 12:12:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26036 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 24 May 1998 12:12:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25962 for ; Sun, 24 May 1998 12:12:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13040 for ; Sun, 24 May 1998 12:11:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199805241911.MAA13040@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Blender and Newsletter? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:11:58 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As some of you may know by know the FreeBSD Newsletter #2 is out ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/newsletter/issue2.pdf Perhaps a good way to shake out the bugs in Blender is to attempt to use Blender for art work in the FreeBSD NewsLetter or Web art work. Blender can be downloaded from: http://www.neogeo.nl/download.html Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 24 19:50:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00653 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 24 May 1998 19:50:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00638 for ; Sun, 24 May 1998 19:50:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA21370 for ; Sun, 24 May 1998 21:50:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 21:50:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Problems viewing pages 4 and 9 on Newsletter Issue 2 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone had a problem printing/viewing pages 4 and 9 of the new newsletter? My printer consistently chokes at the exact same spot on those pages and lights up like a christmas tree (saved to ps by xpdf 0.7, and from ps to HP 870Cse by Ghostscript 5.10) and xpdf coredumps on a Signal 8 (Floating Exception) when I try to view those two pages. Funny how xpdf doesn't complain while saving to postscript, nor does Ghostscript complain when converting from ps to native printer format. I've re-downloaded issue2.pdf from ftp.freebsd.org and got the exact same results (diff showed no difference). Is it possible the version on ftp.freebsd.org is corrupted? -- Chris Dillon --- cdillon@inter-linc.net --- cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 24 21:32:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14058 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 24 May 1998 21:32:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14046 for ; Sun, 24 May 1998 21:32:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA21509 for ; Sun, 24 May 1998 23:32:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 23:32:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems viewing pages 4 and 9 on Newsletter Issue 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 24 May 1998, Chris Dillon wrote: > Has anyone had a problem printing/viewing pages 4 and 9 of the new > newsletter? My printer consistently chokes at the exact same spot on > those pages and lights up like a christmas tree (saved to ps by xpdf 0.7, > and from ps to HP 870Cse by Ghostscript 5.10) and xpdf coredumps on a > Signal 8 (Floating Exception) when I try to view those two pages. > > Funny how xpdf doesn't complain while saving to postscript, nor does > Ghostscript complain when converting from ps to native printer format. > I've re-downloaded issue2.pdf from ftp.freebsd.org and got the exact same > results (diff showed no difference). Is it possible the version on > ftp.freebsd.org is corrupted? Quick update here.. i went from xpdf 0.7 to 0.7a, and the problem with the Signal 8 while viewing those pages disappeared. However, the printing problem still occurs. -- Chris Dillon --- cdillon@inter-linc.net --- cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 24 22:02:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17176 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 24 May 1998 22:02:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17043 for ; Sun, 24 May 1998 22:01:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00591; Sun, 24 May 1998 22:46:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199805250346.WAA00591@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Problems viewing pages 4 and 9 on Newsletter Issue 2 In-Reply-To: from Chris Dillon at "May 24, 98 09:50:45 pm" To: cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us (Chris Dillon) Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 22:46:25 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Dillon said: > Has anyone had a problem printing/viewing pages 4 and 9 of the new > newsletter? My printer consistently chokes at the exact same spot on > those pages and lights up like a christmas tree (saved to ps by xpdf 0.7, > and from ps to HP 870Cse by Ghostscript 5.10) and xpdf coredumps on a > Signal 8 (Floating Exception) when I try to view those two pages. > > Funny how xpdf doesn't complain while saving to postscript, nor does > Ghostscript complain when converting from ps to native printer format. > I've re-downloaded issue2.pdf from ftp.freebsd.org and got the exact same > results (diff showed no difference). Is it possible the version on > ftp.freebsd.org is corrupted? > I just downloaded the version on ftp.freebsd.org, and viewed it with the Linux version of Acroread, and succesfully printed it (through lpr on another FreeBSD box, with a gs5.10 interpreter "wired" into it), onto a HP890C. Probably a bug in xpdf, or a bug in the FP handling in it. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 24 23:04:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26087 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 24 May 1998 23:04:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26051; Sun, 24 May 1998 23:04:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA21633; Mon, 25 May 1998 01:04:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 01:04:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: "John S. Dyson" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems viewing pages 4 and 9 on Newsletter Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <199805250346.WAA00591@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 24 May 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > I just downloaded the version on ftp.freebsd.org, and viewed it with > the Linux version of Acroread, and succesfully printed it (through > lpr on another FreeBSD box, with a gs5.10 interpreter "wired" into > it), onto a HP890C. Probably a bug in xpdf, or a bug in the FP > handling in it. Probably, considering I could view the pages when i upgrded from xpdf 0.7 to 0.7a. Printing problem wasn't fixed, but I think I'll install acroread and see how I fare. -- Chris Dillon --- cdillon@inter-linc.net --- cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 00:06:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA08750 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 00:06:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA08670; Mon, 25 May 1998 00:05:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tg@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA14637; Mon, 25 May 1998 09:04:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from tg@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id JAA21749; Mon, 25 May 1998 09:04:53 +0200 (CEST) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: andre@pipeline.ch (IBS / Andre Oppermann), grog@lemis.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wosch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD mailing lists with high latency References: <199805240230.TAA14659@hub.freebsd.org> From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 25 May 1998 09:04:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Jonathan M. Bresler"'s message of "Sat, 23 May 1998 19:30:59 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: <87d8d2g7ai.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jonathan M. Bresler" writes: > > I get my mails directly from hub.FREEBSD.org. > > that's correct, we dont have a mail-relay for .ch. > any volunteers? for other top level domains we have > a number of relays....edu and com are excellent examples. You could probably use the german exploder. Same goes for .at. Wolfgang? tg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 01:45:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA00853 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 01:45:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cons.org (knight.cons.org [194.233.237.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA00828 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 01:45:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cracauer@cons.org) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by cons.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id KAA01150; Mon, 25 May 1998 10:45:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19980525104517.40886@cons.org> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:45:17 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: More hacker-news sites like slashdot.org? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm trying to make a list of web sites that carry news on hacker-related material like Linux, free software in general, uncommon platforms like Be/NeXT or generally news on tools that fit a hacker's mind. "News" is defined as a changing website that is worth visiting once a wekk or so. I have www.slashdot.org www.freshmeat.net And also count, given their current steam: www.kde.org www.gimp.org More? Isn't there a "rootshell.org" or such? Yes, I know most of these are ignorant of FreeBSD, but please let me know nothingtheless. Thanks. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (batched, preferred for large mails) Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 Paper: (private) Waldstrasse 200, 22846 Norderstedt, Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 04:49:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02540 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 04:49:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA02496 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 04:49:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from J.G.E.Backus@tue.nl) Received: from asterix.urc.tue.nl [131.155.5.10] by mailhost.tue.nl (8.8.8) for id NAA11221 (ESMTP). Mon, 25 May 1998 13:48:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from jbackus@localhost by asterix.urc.tue.nl (8.8.8) for chat@FreeBSD.ORG id NAA07987. Mon, 25 May 1998 13:48:57 +0200 (MDT) Message-ID: <19980525134856.C20661@asterix.urc.tue.nl> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:48:56 +0200 From: Jos Backus To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Drunk penguins References: <980521211047.ZM2670@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.7 In-Reply-To: <980521211047.ZM2670@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Thu, May 21, 1998 at 09:10:47PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, May 21, 1998 at 09:10:47PM +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > I don't agree. Not that I'm a big Bud drinker, but that is not a real Bud > label on the bottle, at least any that I have ever seen. > > Frank Surely you would prefer Miller, right? ;-) Cheers, -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ jbackus@urc.tue.nl _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 05:11:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA06434 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 05:11:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA06427 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 05:11:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11962; Mon, 25 May 1998 12:11:16 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA02428; Mon, 25 May 1998 14:11:05 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980525141105.08870@follo.net> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:11:05 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: John Birrell Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: buildworld from read-only filesystem References: <19980525000710.48512@follo.net> <199805250030.KAA18501@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199805250030.KAA18501@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Mon, May 25, 1998 at 10:30:00AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 25, 1998 at 10:30:00AM +1000, John Birrell wrote: > Eivind Eklund wrote: > > I don't know how to fix this, except for maybe disabling -Werror. > > Possibly builds from normal filesystems have this problem at the > > moment, too - I haven't tested. > > Fix the "big bug" in gcc? 8-) You can guess at my chances of getting proper error control into GCC. Yeah, right. I could probably get it into egcs, though. > The semantics differ depending on the use of -nostdinc. ... and I had forgotten about it. Oh, well. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 05:19:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA07955 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 05:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA07937 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 05:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from ringhorni.ifi.uio.no (2602@ringhorni.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.75]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id OAA16232; Mon, 25 May 1998 14:19:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by ringhorni.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 25 May 1998 14:19:20 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Dillon Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems viewing pages 4 and 9 on Newsletter Issue 2 References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 25 May 1998 14:19:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: Chris Dillon's message of "Sun, 24 May 1998 21:50:45 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Dillon writes: > Has anyone had a problem printing/viewing pages 4 and 9 of the new > newsletter? My printer consistently chokes at the exact same spot on > those pages and lights up like a christmas tree (saved to ps by xpdf 0.7, > and from ps to HP 870Cse by Ghostscript 5.10) and xpdf coredumps on a > Signal 8 (Floating Exception) when I try to view those two pages. Works just fine here with gv 3.5.8 and gs 5.10 on FreeBSD-current. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 09:06:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12114 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 09:06:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12100 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 09:06:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from default (mira-10.mdm.jvl.execpc.com [169.207.46.13]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.8) id LAA13741; Mon, 25 May 1998 11:06:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980525110623.007d06b0@mail.execpc.com> X-Sender: fpawlak@mail.execpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:06:23 -0500 To: Jos Backus , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Drunk penguins In-Reply-To: <19980525134856.C20661@asterix.urc.tue.nl> References: <980521211047.ZM2670@darkstar.connect.com> <980521211047.ZM2670@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:48 PM 5/25/98 +0200, Jos Backus wrote: >On Thu, May 21, 1998 at 09:10:47PM +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: >> I don't agree. Not that I'm a big Bud drinker, but that is not a real Bud >> label on the bottle, at least any that I have ever seen. >> >> Frank > >Surely you would prefer Miller, right? ;-) > Ick, only partake in the micro brew stuff. Regards, Frank >Cheers, >-- >Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never > _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." > _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein > _/ _/ _/ _/ >jbackus@urc.tue.nl _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 10:02:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21696 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 10:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21658 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 10:02:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paulg@interlog.com) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (paulg@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA07049 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 13:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:02:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Griffith To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: USB/FreeBSD & The Big Boys Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Take a look at www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?980522.whusb.htm FreeBSD is listed with Digital, Sun, IBM, SCO, Phoenix/Award as a founding member of the USB Driver Interface Working Group. Kinda puts a little smile on your face. Paul Griffith - paulg@interlog.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 10:55:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01578 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 10:55:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01567 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 10:55:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18248; Mon, 25 May 1998 10:54:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199805251754.KAA18248@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Paul Griffith cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB/FreeBSD & The Big Boys In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 May 1998 13:02:06 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:54:52 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It sure does put a smile specially if linux got relegated to second citizen. Amancio > > Take a look at www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?980522.whusb.htm > > FreeBSD is listed with Digital, Sun, IBM, SCO, Phoenix/Award as a > founding member of the USB Driver Interface Working Group. > > Kinda puts a little smile on your face. > > > Paul Griffith - paulg@interlog.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 13:22:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27338 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 13:22:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from einstein.fisica.ist.utl.pt (gabriel@dns.fisica.ist.utl.pt [193.136.197.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27089 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 13:20:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gabriel@maquina.com) Received: from localhost (gabriel@localhost) by einstein.fisica.ist.utl.pt (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA14257 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 21:19:58 +0100 Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:19:58 +0100 (BST) From: Jose Gabriel J Marcelino X-Sender: gabriel@einstein.fisica.ist.utl.pt To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Expo'98 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, A quick note to anyone going to the international Expo'98 in Lisbon (Portugal). If you, during you stay, desire a night (or day) of Internet, FreeBSD, some FreeBeer ;) and if you're in the mood some funky jazz ( at the Hot Club nearby) e-mail me or call me at +351-1-3225054 (3225054 if you're already in Lisbon) You'll even get to meet our cool company! (gratuitous promotional plug) Other *nix users are also welcome, Winblows users need not apply as they have already too much fun using their little thing. For those bringing your laptops 10Base-T wiring and a free hub slot is also available.. Bring your ethernet PC card! We're nice people and we can share our toys too :) -- Jose Gabriel J Marcelino gabriel@maquina.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 13:43:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01446 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 13:43:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01428 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 13:43:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from EXIT10 (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.97]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA10511; Mon, 25 May 1998 16:42:47 -0400 (EDT) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Robby Glen Garner Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tty-level buffer overflows Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:45:12 GMT Message-ID: <356ad7dc.200656527@mail.cetlink.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA01436 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 25 May 1998 12:37:14 -0400 (EDT), Robby Glen Garner wrote: >FreeBSD Rocks!!! Bill Gates can kiss my ... Discovering free software seems to be a better rush than drugs ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 18:23:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18463 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:23:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18235 for chat; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:21:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199805260121.SAA18235@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: vmailer and freebsd-chat To: chat Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:21:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org from time to time, when there is a significant change to the mailing lists, i use -chat as a final testing ground before rolling the change into production. of all the FreeBSD mailing lists, -chat may be the least critical (well...maybe not. its charter says it is .) this is one of those times. i have been experimenting with VMailer from wietse venema of tcp wrappers and satan fame. it seems to be very fast in delivering messages sent to FreeBSD-test (the official test mailing list). test has only some 36 subscribers however. so time to look for a list with a large user base. chat has 251 subscribers. the *only* change is that chat is now using vmailer as its delivery agent. all archiving, digesting, and majordomo features remain unchanged. however, you will see differences in both the Received headers, the mail delivery path and the appearence of a new header: "Delivered-To:". the mail delivery path changes because VMailer does not use sendmail's mailertable, so we will be delviering directly to each MX or host rather than spooling mail through the freebsd.org mail relays. please exmaine the email that you receive from -chat. i am looking for feedback about any breakage, procmail scripts, slocal, etc. so far vmailer looks fine, but we need to place under a little load to help it reveal it true nature. it is not uncommon for the mailing lists to have several thousand messages in the queues due to unreachable sites. moving -chat to VMailer will give VMailer larger queue directories to chew on ;) done be shy to comment ;) jmb ps. you can read about VMailer at http://www.vmailer.org/ -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Core Team, Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 18:35:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20231 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mozart.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20225; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:35:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by mozart.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA14682; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:34:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) X-Authentication-Warning: mozart.canonware.com: jasone owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:34:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vmailer and freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: <199805260121.SAA18235@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 25 May 1998, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > done be shy to comment ;) If you decide to make this change across all lists, please give an advanced warning so that I can fix my procmail regexps. =) Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 18:41:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21127 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:41:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21117; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:41:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199805260141.SAA21117@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: vmailer and freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: from Jason Evans at "May 25, 98 06:34:44 pm" To: jasone@canonware.com (Jason Evans) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason Evans wrote: > On Mon, 25 May 1998, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > done be shy to comment ;) > > If you decide to make this change across all lists, please give an > advanced warning so that I can fix my procmail regexps. =) so i take it that the message i just sent announcing that we are testing vmailer and this message were not filtered as desired by procmail at your site? can you send me the relevant procmail recipe? runs a little faster will only one list to deal with, doesnt it ;) (hmm...could be alternate method of dealing with the problem ;) jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 18:42:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21362 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:42:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (ken@panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21296; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:42:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA12156; Mon, 25 May 1998 19:42:05 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199805260142.TAA12156@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: vmailer and freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: from Jason Evans at "May 25, 98 06:34:44 pm" To: jasone@canonware.com (Jason Evans) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 19:42:05 -0600 (MDT) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason Evans wrote... > On Mon, 25 May 1998, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > done be shy to comment ;) > > If you decide to make this change across all lists, please give an > advanced warning so that I can fix my procmail regexps. =) Why do you need to fix your procmail rules? I use the Sender: field to sort things into files, and it works just fine with the messages that have come through VMailer. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 18:43:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21552 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:43:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21542; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:43:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA05499; Mon, 25 May 1998 20:43:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:43:32 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" Reply-To: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vmailer and freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: <199805260121.SAA18235@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This breaks my sendmail rulesets. I rely on the From line like so: :0: * ^From.owner-freebsd-chat f-chat Whereas VMailer aparently sends it with the sender as the From. See your header below. I kinda liked being able to sort with the From line, but... *shrug* *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ------------------------------------------------------------- >From jmb@freebsd.org Mon May 25 20:38:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04796 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 20:24:44 -0500 (CDT) Delivered-To: vmailer-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (VMailer, from userid 1) id 9948A4953; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18463 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:23:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18235 for chat; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:21:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199805260121.SAA18235@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: vmailer and freebsd-chat To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:21:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 18:44:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21703 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:44:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (ken@panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21693; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:44:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA12185; Mon, 25 May 1998 19:44:12 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199805260144.TAA12185@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: vmailer and freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: <199805260142.TAA12156@panzer.plutotech.com> from "Kenneth D. Merry" at "May 25, 98 07:42:05 pm" To: ken@plutotech.com (Kenneth D. Merry) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 19:44:11 -0600 (MDT) Cc: jasone@canonware.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kenneth D. Merry wrote... > Jason Evans wrote... > > On Mon, 25 May 1998, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > done be shy to comment ;) > > > > If you decide to make this change across all lists, please give an > > advanced warning so that I can fix my procmail regexps. =) > > Why do you need to fix your procmail rules? I use the Sender: > field to sort things into files, and it works just fine with the messages > that have come through VMailer. Never mind...I just figured it out. The envelope header is different. Now it's From majordom@freebsd.org, before it was owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 18:51:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22782 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:51:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mozart.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22769; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:51:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by mozart.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA23082; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:50:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) X-Authentication-Warning: mozart.canonware.com: jasone owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:50:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans Reply-To: Jason Evans To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vmailer and freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: <199805260141.SAA21117@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 25 May 1998, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > Jason Evans wrote: > > On Mon, 25 May 1998, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > done be shy to comment ;) > > > > If you decide to make this change across all lists, please give an > > advanced warning so that I can fix my procmail regexps. =) > > so i take it that the message i just sent announcing that > we are testing vmailer and this message were not filtered > as desired by procmail at your site? > > can you send me the relevant procmail recipe? I'm not exactly a procmail power user, so it was very simplistic (and perhaps even slightly broken), and is now fixed. If all the lists change, I'll make the same change. Was: # freebsd-chat :0: * ^From.*freebsd-chat freebsd-chat Now is: # freebsd-chat :0: * ^Sender.*owner-freebsd-chat freebsd-chat Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 19:36:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00357 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 19:36:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from mph@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00338; Mon, 25 May 1998 19:36:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) From: Matthew Hunt Message-Id: <199805260236.TAA00338@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: vmailer and freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: <199805260121.SAA18235@hub.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "May 25, 98 06:21:39 pm" To: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:36:45 -0400 (EDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > please exmaine the email that you receive from -chat. i am looking > for feedback about any breakage, procmail scripts, slocal, etc. This mail was delivered to a mail spool on hub, despite my forwarding mail to mph@pobox.com. I assume that any differences in forwarding procedure will be announced? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 19:47:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02078 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 19:47:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02049; Mon, 25 May 1998 19:47:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199805260247.TAA02049@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: vmailer and freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: <199805260236.TAA00338@hub.freebsd.org> from Matthew Hunt at "May 25, 98 10:36:45 pm" To: mph@hub.freebsd.org (Matthew Hunt) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 19:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Hunt wrote: > > please exmaine the email that you receive from -chat. i am looking > > for feedback about any breakage, procmail scripts, slocal, etc. > > This mail was delivered to a mail spool on hub, despite my forwarding > mail to mph@pobox.com. I assume that any differences in forwarding > procedure will be announced? > hmm.....that's not good. vmailer is ignoring the symlink'ed .forward files. i'll have to look into this. for the short term, would people please POP their mail off of hub....probably a good thing to due regularly anyway. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 25 22:49:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA26427 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 22:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA26420 for ; Mon, 25 May 1998 22:49:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.0.Beta7/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id HAA08462 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 26 May 1998 07:49:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id HAA14193 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 26 May 1998 07:38:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980526073853.B14174@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 07:38:53 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vmailer and freebsd-chat Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <199805260141.SAA21117@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.3i In-Reply-To: <199805260141.SAA21117@hub.freebsd.org>; from Jonathan M. Bresler on Mon, May 25, 1998 at 06:41:39PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4311 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Jonathan M. Bresler: > so i take it that the message i just sent announcing that > we are testing vmailer and this message were not filtered > as desired by procmail at your site? All -chat messages were correctly delivered here. :0: * ^Sender:.*owner-(freebsd-|)chat@.* freebsd/chat -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #60: Fri May 15 21:04:22 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 26 08:23:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15100 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 08:23:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15088; Tue, 26 May 1998 08:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from gnipahellir.ifi.uio.no (2602@gnipahellir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.86]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id RAA09764; Tue, 26 May 1998 17:23:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by gnipahellir.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 26 May 1998 17:23:01 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Evans Cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vmailer and freebsd-chat References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 26 May 1998 17:23:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: Jason Evans's message of "Mon, 25 May 1998 18:50:37 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason Evans writes: > # freebsd-chat > :0: > * ^Sender.*owner-freebsd-chat > freebsd-chat This one will work with all the lists, even those still using sendmail. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 26 13:04:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09892 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 13:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09674 for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 13:03:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12564; Tue, 26 May 1998 14:01:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199805262001.OAA12564@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: USB/FreeBSD & The Big Boys In-Reply-To: from Paul Griffith at "May 25, 98 01:02:06 pm" To: paulg@interlog.com (Paul Griffith) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:01:58 -0600 (MDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Take a look at www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?980522.whusb.htm > > FreeBSD is listed with Digital, Sun, IBM, SCO, Phoenix/Award as a > founding member of the USB Driver Interface Working Group. > > Kinda puts a little smile on your face. > Yes, it does. I guess the bonehead who failed to research this article hasn't read the sales stats from last year that show that NT Server installations are mostly replacing NetWare file/print servers, and don't seem to have moved into the UNIX application server arena yet, since he's already decided that NT will "beat UNIX," whatever that means. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 26 15:53:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12384 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 15:53:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA12264 for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 15:52:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from (ragnet.demon.co.uk) [158.152.46.40] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yeSZp-0006Vg-00; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:52:14 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yeQzn-0002Ox-00; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:10:55 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:10:54 +0100 (BST) From: Duncan Barclay To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: You know you've been hacking too long when... Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org you reach around the cat sitting between you and the monitor, grab the keyboard and press ALT-R to raise the editor window to the top of the fur. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 26 16:13:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17367 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 16:13:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17341 for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 16:13:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20144 for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 23:13:33 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA00340; Wed, 27 May 1998 01:13:31 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980527011330.19820@follo.net> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:13:30 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: "3d-printers" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.amdnet.com/rapid.htm http://www.amdnet.com/brochure/pg4.htm I want one! Eivind, drooling. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 26 17:34:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01340 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 17:34:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00625 for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 17:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paulg@interlog.com) Received: from moria.griffith.ca (209-20-1-109.dialin.interlog.com [209.20.1.109]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA08916; Tue, 26 May 1998 20:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 20:26:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Griffith X-Sender: paulg@moria.griffith.ca To: Wes Peters cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: HCL Was: USB/FreeBSD & The Big Boys In-Reply-To: <199805262001.OAA12564@obie.softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just as a add-on to this, on the weekend past I was down by the University of Toronto Book store to buy Solaris v2.6. There was a customer that was looking for FreeBSD. The book store didn't have it so, I sent him off to the "World Largest BookStore". He wanted FreeBSD for home, use because they use FreeBSD at work to test their NFS Server/Gateway products. The company is know as HCL (aka Hummingbird Communications Ltd) Paul Griffith BTW: He also said that their developers liked the new SCO UnixWare 7. On Tue, 26 May 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > Take a look at www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?980522.whusb.htm > > > > FreeBSD is listed with Digital, Sun, IBM, SCO, Phoenix/Award as a > > founding member of the USB Driver Interface Working Group. > > > > Kinda puts a little smile on your face. > > > > Yes, it does. I guess the bonehead who failed to research this > article hasn't read the sales stats from last year that show that > NT Server installations are mostly replacing NetWare file/print > servers, and don't seem to have moved into the UNIX application > server arena yet, since he's already decided that NT will "beat > UNIX," whatever that means. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > --------- paulg@interlog.com | Powered by FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 26 20:36:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04472 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 20:36:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04335 for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 20:35:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA25877; Tue, 26 May 1998 23:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (danj@localhost) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA00564; Tue, 26 May 1998 23:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 23:34:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Janowski To: Duncan Barclay cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long when... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hmmmm, this seems familiar. I think I've done something very much like this. I have a few systems and one of those KVM switchers that I only use for the Keyboard (yes, good to spend $250 and use 1/3 of its capabilities). So now I'll be typing, pause for a moment to think, then look at another screen thinking that the characters will show up there. Dan On Tue, 26 May 1998, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > you reach around the cat sitting between you and the monitor, grab the > keyboard and press ALT-R to raise the editor window to the top of the fur. > > Duncan > > --- > ________________________________________________________________________ > Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, > dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. > ________________________________________________________________________ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 27 07:53:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13297 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 May 1998 07:53:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13257 for ; Wed, 27 May 1998 07:52:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14142; Wed, 27 May 1998 08:52:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199805271452.IAA14142@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long when... In-Reply-To: from Duncan Barclay at "May 26, 98 10:10:54 pm" To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk (Duncan Barclay) Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 08:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > you reach around the cat sitting between you and the monitor, grab the > keyboard and press ALT-R to raise the editor window to the top of the fur. You can't figure out why you can't get the mouse onto her left ear to click her "close" box. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 27 08:05:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15300 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 May 1998 08:05:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15291 for ; Wed, 27 May 1998 08:05:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Received: from plutotech.com (tampopo.plutotech.com [206.168.67.161]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07095; Wed, 27 May 1998 09:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <356C2BAC.6AF97154@plutotech.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:05:16 -0600 From: Sean Kelly Organization: Pluto Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters CC: Duncan Barclay , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long when... References: <199805271452.IAA14142@obie.softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > [ ... odd keyboard interactions ... ] My favorite is when I stick a Post-It (tm) note to the monitor to remind me to do something very important. I stick it right on the glass, right in the middle. Later, I'll return to my desk and attempt to drag the note away with the mouse. For some reason, it doesn't work. More's the pity, I've done this twice. --Sean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 27 09:21:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01856 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 May 1998 09:21:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01804 for ; Wed, 27 May 1998 09:21:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05095; Wed, 27 May 1998 10:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199805271620.KAA05095@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:19:46 -0600 To: "Jason" , "John Kelly" , "Atipa" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Cc: "Jan B. Koum " , In-Reply-To: <01fd01bd842b$40859b80$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:09 PM 5/20/98 -0400, Jason wrote: >What was illegal about the contracts that MS are "forcing by gun point" on >PC manufacturers? I mean it doesn't prevent them from totally customizing >the OS to look like they want? It also doesn't keep them from loading >other apps if they want. things like that might be ilegal but nothing like >that was done. IE has been in Windows since Windows 95 4.00. Its wasn't as >intregrated until version 4.1 but what does that have to do with anything. >Netscape can create the same thing if they like. I detect a Microsoft shill here. How much is Brad Chase paying you to write this bull$#!%? --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 27 13:33:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22908 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 May 1998 13:33:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22866 for ; Wed, 27 May 1998 13:33:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14706; Wed, 27 May 1998 14:33:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199805272033.OAA14706@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: "3d-printers" In-Reply-To: <19980527011330.19820@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "May 27, 98 01:13:30 am" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 14:33:15 -0600 (MDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind recently blathered: > http://www.amdnet.com/rapid.htm > http://www.amdnet.com/brochure/pg4.htm > > I want one! We had a couple of case designs for the Internet Station done by a company in Colorado that has one of the laser sintering machines. It was really nice to be able to see our drawings turned into 3D models in 3 days. Small problem: they charged about US$2,500 per run, for a plastic case about 8" x 5" x 1". Wugh! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 03:49:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA20178 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 03:49:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA20155; Thu, 28 May 1998 03:49:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yf0E5-0003un-00; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:48:01 +0200 Subject: Re: vmailer and freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: <199805260144.TAA12185@panzer.plutotech.com> from "Kenneth D. Merry" at "May 25, 98 07:44:11 pm" To: ken@plutotech.com (Kenneth D. Merry) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:48:01 +0200 (SAT) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc X-URL: http://www.cityip.co.za/~wjv/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Johann Visagie Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > > Never mind...I just figured it out. The envelope header is > different. Now it's From majordom@freebsd.org, before it was > owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org. The same thing also broke my exim filter. Exim encapsulates the envelope "From" header in a variable which it names $sender_address. This is often the best thing to filter on. It's a small matter, though - if one filters mailing lists one has to expect to adapt one's filters now and again. :-) -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 04:57:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA28016 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 04:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (ted@cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA28010 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 04:57:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ted@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from ted@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26831; Thu, 28 May 1998 07:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19980528075709.18096@cheddar.netmonger.net> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:57:09 -0400 From: Ted Stein To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Mutt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD cheddar.netmonger.net 2.2.6-STABLE i386 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm having problems with linewrapping no matter which editor I use to compose in Mutt. What do you guys suggest I use? -- Ted Stein ted@taki.net CGI/Backend taki solutions, inc. http://www.taki.net PGP available upon request To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 06:25:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA12212 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 06:25:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rfcnet.com (rfcnet.com [207.227.20.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA12189 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 06:25:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mattc@rfcnet.com) Received: (from mattc@localhost) by rfcnet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20096; Thu, 28 May 1998 08:24:22 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mattc) Message-ID: <19980528082422.A20016@rfcnet.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:24:22 -0500 From: Matthew Cashdollar To: Ted Stein , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mutt References: <19980528075709.18096@cheddar.netmonger.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980528075709.18096@cheddar.netmonger.net>; from Ted Stein on Thu, May 28, 1998 at 07:57:09AM -0400 x-no-archive: yes Organization: RF Communications, Inc. http://www.rfcinc.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, May 28, 1998 at 07:57:09AM -0400, Ted Stein wrote: > I'm having problems with linewrapping no matter which editor I use to compose in Mutt. What do you guys suggest I use? If you are in vi, type :set wl=79 (wrap lines at column 79..) If you like this feature you can put the command in .exrc in your home directory and it will be the default. -- Matthew Cashdollar RF Communications, Inc. -- http://www.rfcinc.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 07:36:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA22911 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 07:36:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22905 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 07:36:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from gjallarhorn.ifi.uio.no (2602@gjallarhorn.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.40]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id QAA16705; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:36:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by gjallarhorn.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:36:27 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Cashdollar Cc: Ted Stein , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mutt References: <19980528075709.18096@cheddar.netmonger.net> <19980528082422.A20016@rfcnet.com> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 28 May 1998 16:36:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: Matthew Cashdollar's message of "Thu, 28 May 1998 08:24:22 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Cashdollar writes: > On Thu, May 28, 1998 at 07:57:09AM -0400, Ted Stein wrote: > > I'm having problems with linewrapping no matter which editor I use > > to compose in Mutt. What do you guys suggest I use? > If you are in vi, type :set wl=79 (wrap lines at column 79..) If you > like this feature you can put the command in .exrc in your home > directory and it will be the default. As any Good Netizen (tm) knows, the correct command is ':set wl=74' :) -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 11:04:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19954 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 11:04:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19905 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 11:04:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA02626; Thu, 28 May 1998 11:04:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:04:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: Greg Lehey cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Compatibility with Ultra IDE drives? In-Reply-To: <19980528102719.D342@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org moving to chat ... On Thu, 28 May 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > > My IDE drive in gdi. You can tell when it's working. The SCSI drive > > could do a full search on itself and I'd never know it. > > What kind of transfers are you doing? With DMA, there's very little > difference. Hm, I'll have to demo a UltraDMA computer. I'm only on standard IDE. Is UltraDMA tothe point where it actually is a win? Originally the critics were saying there was no win with ultradma. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 11:30:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23871 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 11:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23851 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 11:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22938; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199805281830.MAA22938@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:30:03 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: PC Magazine Chart Shows FreeBSD as Vulnerable to Attacks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org PC Magazine's chart at http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/pclabs/nettools/1708/tools2.html shows FreeBSD as being vulnerable to some network security attacks which I thought had been handled long ago. Is the chart current? If not, it'd be appropriate to set them straight. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 13:49:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23127 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 13:49:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23066 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 13:48:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id GAA23997; Fri, 29 May 1998 06:18:14 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980529061814.D25469@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 06:18:14 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Doug White Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Compatibility with Ultra IDE drives? References: <19980528102719.D342@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug White on Thu, May 28, 1998 at 11:04:17AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 28 May 1998 at 11:04:17 -0700, Doug White wrote: > moving to chat ... > > On Thu, 28 May 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>> My IDE drive in gdi. You can tell when it's working. The SCSI drive >>> could do a full search on itself and I'd never know it. >> >> What kind of transfers are you doing? With DMA, there's very little >> difference. > > Hm, I'll have to demo a UltraDMA computer. I'm only on standard IDE. Is > UltraDMA tothe point where it actually is a win? Originally the critics > were saying there was no win with ultradma. I'm sure the critics still say all sorts of things. I'm not sure one way or another. It's certainly a win against programmed transfer in a computer which doesn't wait for every transfer. SCSI is still faster for a multi-user system, but IDE has a lot going for it nowadays. You saw the figures: my make world was significantly faster with IDE than with SCSI. On the other hand, the system time was a little longer, which suggests that the transfers aren't quite as efficient. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 14:16:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27291 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 14:16:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27283 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 14:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.0/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id XAA08281 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 May 1998 23:15:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id VAA12566 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 May 1998 21:48:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980528214824.A12555@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:48:24 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Compatibility with Ultra IDE drives? Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <19980528102719.D342@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug White on Thu, May 28, 1998 at 11:04:17AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4311 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Doug White: > Hm, I'll have to demo a UltraDMA computer. I'm only on standard IDE. Is > UltraDMA tothe point where it actually is a win? Originally the critics > were saying there was no win with ultradma. The main difference is PIO vs DMA. UltraDMA should not make any real difference because no disk is able to push that much data out... You can get 11 or 12 MB/s from a modern drive (maybe a bit more with 10k rpms but they're not available to IDE) so having an IDE interface at 33 MB/s is useless IMO. Having a bigger bandwidth is useful for SCSI because you can disconnect but access to devices is "sequential" on an IDE bus. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #60: Fri May 15 21:04:22 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 14:25:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29036 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 14:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28969 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 14:25:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id GAA26350; Fri, 29 May 1998 06:54:51 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980529065451.N25469@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 06:54:51 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Ted Stein , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mutt References: <19980528075709.18096@cheddar.netmonger.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980528075709.18096@cheddar.netmonger.net>; from Ted Stein on Thu, May 28, 1998 at 07:57:09AM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 28 May 1998 at 7:57:09 -0400, Ted Stein wrote: > I'm having problems with linewrapping no matter which editor I use > to compose in Mutt. What do you guys suggest I use? Emacs, of course (ducks as another religious war starts). On a more serious note, you might like to check out http://www.lemis.com/email.html. What have you been using? I haven't seen much in the way of this problem with mutt. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 15:48:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15793 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 15:48:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pobox.com ([208.141.230.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15741; Thu, 28 May 1998 15:48:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alk@pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by pobox.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id RAA03682; Thu, 28 May 1998 17:49:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:49:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199805282249.RAA03682@pobox.com> From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Face: O9M"E%K;(f-Go/XDxL+pCxI5*gr[=FN@Y`cl1.Tn Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: Fix for undefined "__error" and discussion of shared object versioning X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoth Nate Williams : > > My own concern would be the amount of code in third-party programs > > that uses gccisms. > > Very few programs *should* use gccisms. If they do, they are broke > since they won't build on other OS's compilers. [ note redirect to chat ] Various points: 1 Non-portable != broken. 2 I'm amazed to see this coming from Nate "Java" Williams! Gcc is the *platform*. Gcc is what makes code portable, not ANSI, which is merely an idea, and not a platform. 3 People use gccisms because then they don't have to write asm, which is much *less* portable. 4 Are you planning on fixing them? Egad, the number of ports! > Better/faster/less buggy compiler with a much less restrictive Copyright > seems like a win overall to me. Remains to be seen, as far as I am concerned. Various points: 1 TenDRA should be compared to GCC 2.8.1, not 2.7.2.1. 2 GPL should not be a restriction in practice for anyone except someone who wants to retain source for a commercialization of added-value back-end code generation under FreeBSD, since there are plenty of source-to-source compilers suitable as front-ends to GCC. Since the amount of money to be made doing this is a negative number, it's not a restriction in practice. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 16:08:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19686 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19644 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:08:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA13102; Thu, 28 May 1998 17:08:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA21910; Thu, 28 May 1998 17:08:14 -0600 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:08:14 -0600 Message-Id: <199805282308.RAA21910@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: alk@pobox.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: Fix for undefined "__error" and discussion of shared object versioning In-Reply-To: <199805282249.RAA03682@pobox.com> References: <199805282249.RAA03682@pobox.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > My own concern would be the amount of code in third-party programs > > > that uses gccisms. > > > > Very few programs *should* use gccisms. If they do, they are broke > > since they won't build on other OS's compilers. > > [ note redirect to chat ] > > Various points: > > 1 Non-portable != broken. True. *I* consider non-portable code broken. :) > 2 I'm amazed to see this coming from Nate "Java" Williams! That's why I said it. :) > Gcc is the *platform*. Gcc is what makes code portable, > not ANSI, which is merely an idea, and not a platform. *laugh* Note quite. > 3 People use gccisms because then they don't have to write asm, > which is much *less* portable. No, people use gccisms because it's easy. Very few Linux programs that are Linux-centric involve inline asm. There are other gccisms that have been encouraged as 'the right way to do things' simply because it locks you into using GCC IMHO. > 4 Are you planning on fixing them? Egad, the number of ports! Which ports *require* GCC? This is something I'd like to know. > > Better/faster/less buggy compiler with a much less restrictive Copyright > > seems like a win overall to me. > > Remains to be seen, as far as I am concerned. Various points: > > 1 TenDRA should be compared to GCC 2.8.1, not 2.7.2.1. > > 2 GPL should not be a restriction... But it is. People who use FreeBSD in 'embedded' markets may want to keep the compiler, but don't really want to pay the penalty of distributing to anyone that asks, or give them a way to access the source easily. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 16:12:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20236 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:12:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20216 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:12:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA03279; Fri, 29 May 1998 08:41:58 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980529084158.B25469@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:41:58 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Compatibility with Ultra IDE drives? References: <19980528102719.D342@freebie.lemis.com> <19980528214824.A12555@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980528214824.A12555@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Thu, May 28, 1998 at 09:48:24PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 28 May 1998 at 21:48:24 +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Doug White: >> Hm, I'll have to demo a UltraDMA computer. I'm only on standard IDE. Is >> UltraDMA tothe point where it actually is a win? Originally the critics >> were saying there was no win with ultradma. > > The main difference is PIO vs DMA. UltraDMA should not make any real > difference because no disk is able to push that much data out... > > You can get 11 or 12 MB/s from a modern drive (maybe a bit more with 10k > rpms but they're not available to IDE) so having an IDE interface at 33 > MB/s is useless IMO. I think you're being a little hasty here. Sure, 33 MB/s is much more than is needed at the moment, but what will things look like in 6 months? In this connection, I noticed a significant difference just now on two different machines, one a K6/233 with Ultra DMA, the other a P5/133 with PIO. Both were running an IBM DHEA 36480 6.4 GB IDE drive. Here are the results: Transfer Transfer Interrupt CPU mode speed time idle (MB/s) (%) (%) DMA 10.3 1.2 91.9 PIO 2.4 95.3 0.0 The PIO machine was effectively frozen during this time. This is probably the effect to which Doug White was referring. The difference between the CPUs doesn't make a significant difference for the DMA transfer. If the PIO test had been done with the K6, I would expect to still see 100% busy, but I'd expect a faster transfer rate (maybe 6 MB/s). Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 16:49:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25834 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:49:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tao.sinanet.com.tw (tao.sinanet.com.tw [139.175.250.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25811 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:48:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ywliu1@tao.sinanet.com.tw) Received: (from ywliu1@localhost) by tao.sinanet.com.tw (8.8.8/8.8.5) id HAA17142 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:48:58 +0800 (CST) From: Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu Message-Id: <199805282348.HAA17142@tao.sinanet.com.tw> Subject: OpenBSD 2.3... To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:48:57 +0800 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I just received my OpenBSD 2.3 CD-ROM today.. Well, the project is openly crying for help in the CD booklet!! A wild thinking, why doesn't FreeBSD, Inc. merge OpenBSD , like some other mergers to make the BSD world stronger ? ^_^ Yen-Wei Liu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 18:26:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15623 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 18:26:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15545 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 18:25:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id SAA13941; Thu, 28 May 1998 18:25:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:25:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD 2.3... In-Reply-To: <199805282348.HAA17142@tao.sinanet.com.tw> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 29 May 1998, Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu wrote: >Hi all, > >I just received my OpenBSD 2.3 CD-ROM today.. Well, the project is openly >crying for help in the CD booklet!! You mean, the want money? No way! > >A wild thinking, why doesn't FreeBSD, Inc. merge OpenBSD , like some other >mergers to make the BSD world stronger ? ^_^ > Because for people to work together they also need to like each other and have same goals. Especially if you are doing this for free (and not quite so for free as it is in OpenBSD case). -- Yan >Yen-Wei Liu > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 28 19:13:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23107 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 19:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA23066 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 19:13:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrE-29.aei.ca [206.186.204.229]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01909; Thu, 28 May 1998 22:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <356E199F.11B0E486@aei.ca> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:12:47 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jan B. Koum" CC: Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD 2.3... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jan B. Koum wrote: > On Fri, 29 May 1998, Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu wrote: > > >Hi all, > > > >I just received my OpenBSD 2.3 CD-ROM today.. Well, the project is openly > >crying for help in the CD booklet!! > > You mean, the want money? No way! > > > > >A wild thinking, why doesn't FreeBSD, Inc. merge OpenBSD , like some other > >mergers to make the BSD world stronger ? ^_^ > > > > Because for people to work together they also need to like each > other and have same goals. Especially if you are doing this for free (and > not quite so for free as it is in OpenBSD case). > > -- Yan > > >Yen-Wei Liu > > I have nothing against anyone, any project. But I've readed Theo's coremail:http://www.theos.com/~deraadt/coremail.html I've a lot of question in head now. To much questions. Search "FreeBSD" in that page. The problem is than its only a log and everyone seems to lie. Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 02:15:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA17104 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 02:15:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA16967 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 02:15:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kib@poboxes.com) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.119.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/05/18 5.10)) id FAA05058; Fri, 29 May 1998 05:15:24 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from kib (ts003d03.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.63]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.8.8) id FAA12712; Fri, 29 May 1998 05:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00a701bd8ae2$eda38300$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: "John Kelly" , "Atipa" , "Brett Glass" Cc: "Jan B. Koum " , Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:19:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >I detect a Microsoft shill here. How much is Brad Chase paying you to write >this bull$#!%? > >--Brett Glass > > Unfortunately No one is paying me anything.....not even sure who Brad Chase is. I assume someone at MS. The only two names I know off the top of my head is Gates and Chapman. Anyhow....you never answered the question.....I was wondering if you could let me know the specifics because I don't get a lot of news out here in the boonies! All I know is that the DOJ seems way too vague on their accusations.....I mean having a monopoly is not illegal....using that monopoly to do illegal things is however. I would appreciate Serious replies only Thanks Jason Cribbins To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 04:21:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA17614 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 04:21:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from carriage.chesco.com (carriage.chesco.com [209.195.192.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA17593 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 04:21:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bryan@chesco.com) Received: from bryan (mxhyp1x33.chesco.com [209.195.202.52]) by carriage.chesco.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA05108 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805291121.HAA05108@carriage.chesco.com> X-Sender: bryan@pop.chesco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:32:24 -0400 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Bryan Seltzer Subject: test Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just subscribed to freebsd list and just testing thanks Bryan Seltzer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 05:39:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19463 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 05:39:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA19390 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 05:39:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id OAA09764; Fri, 29 May 1998 14:39:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 29 May 1998 14:39:24 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Ollivier Robert Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Compatibility with Ultra IDE drives? References: <19980528102719.D342@freebie.lemis.com> <19980528214824.A12555@keltia.freenix.fr> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 29 May 1998 14:39:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: Ollivier Robert's message of "Thu, 28 May 1998 21:48:24 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ollivier Robert writes: > You can get 11 or 12 MB/s from a modern drive (maybe a bit more with 10k > rpms but they're not available to IDE) so having an IDE interface at 33 > MB/s is useless IMO. Not so. Considering that most modern disks (at least most modern midrange to highend disks) have 256 kB or 512 kB caches, any application which writes data in short bursts (short enough to fit in the cache) is going to benefit from this. 'make buildworld' comes to mind; although the overall output is probably not enough to swamp the disk, most of it happens in small bursts of a couple of tens of kilobytes. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 05:46:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22001 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 05:46:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21910 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 05:46:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id OAA10481; Fri, 29 May 1998 14:45:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 29 May 1998 14:45:32 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason" Cc: "John Kelly" , "Atipa" , "Brett Glass" , "Jan B. Koum " , Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... References: <00a701bd8ae2$eda38300$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 29 May 1998 14:45:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Jason"'s message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 05:19:46 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jason" writes: > All I know is that the DOJ seems way too vague on their accusations.....I > mean having a monopoly is not illegal....using that monopoly to do illegal > things is however. You apparently haven't read the text of the complaints. CNN has a copy online: http://cnn.com/US/9805/18/states.complaint/ http://cnn.com/US/9805/18/federal.complaint/ I have the URL of the original (on www.usdoj.gov) somewhere, but I can't find it right now. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 06:32:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20249 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 06:32:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20117 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 06:32:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10497; Fri, 29 May 1998 09:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:32:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao X-Sender: taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca To: Jason cc: FREEBSD-CHAT Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-Reply-To: <00a701bd8ae2$eda38300$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 29 May 1998, Jason wrote: > > All I know is that the DOJ seems way too vague on their > accusations.....I mean having a monopoly is not illegal....using > that monopoly to do illegal things is however. Erm... "doing illegal things" is illegal, whether or not you're a monopoly... ;-) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 07:37:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20917 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:37:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20813; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:37:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199805291437.HAA20813@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-Reply-To: <00a701bd8ae2$eda38300$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> from Jason at "May 29, 98 05:19:46 am" To: kib@poboxes.com Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jak@cetlink.net, freebsd@atipa.com, brett@lariat.org, jkb@best.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason wrote: > All I know is that the DOJ seems way too vague on their accusations.....I > mean having a monopoly is not illegal....using that monopoly to do illegal > things is however. using their OS monopoly to push their browser. gateway recently announced that MS will allow gateway to ship computer with the netscape browser. gateway should not need nor seek MS's allowance or approval when installing another company's software on gateway computers. it is illegal to use a monopoly in one area to push your product in another. a browser aint part of the OS. one can make a browser the sole interface to the OS, but it aint part of the OS. this is how i understand this one issue in the DOJ suit. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 08:11:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04534 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 08:11:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04421; Fri, 29 May 1998 08:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (localhost.softweyr.com [127.0.0.1]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17820; Fri, 29 May 1998 09:11:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <356ED01C.3A87493E@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:11:24 -0600 From: Wes Peters Reply-To: net@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PC Magazine Chart Shows FreeBSD as Vulnerable to Attacks References: <199805281830.MAA22938@lariat.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > PC Magazine's chart at > > http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/pclabs/nettools/1708/tools2.html > > shows FreeBSD as being vulnerable to some network security attacks which I > thought had been handled long ago. Is the chart current? If not, it'd be > appropriate to set them straight. While FreeBSD faired better than anything else on this chart, it is certainly wrong. They claim, for instance, that FreeBSD is susceptible to the "ping of death," and that FreeBSD is susceptible to UDP-flooding with no workaround. I'm certain you can use IPFW to filter UDP floods, right? I'm forwarding this message to the network mail list, so the EXPERTS can check this out. Replies have been directed there as well. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 12:41:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20462 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 12:41:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20349; Fri, 29 May 1998 12:40:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18134; Fri, 29 May 1998 13:40:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199805291940.NAA18134@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Another FreeBSD commercial vendor To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:40:26 -0600 (MDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I was thumbing through a recent copy of _Linux Journal_ this afternoon and spotted an ad for CCVS, a credit card verification application, that runs on FreeBSD. The vendor, HKS Inc., does not appear on the Vendors page. Would somebody officially related to FreeBSD like to contact them? (Jordan?) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 17:08:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05733 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:08:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tao.sinanet.com.tw (tao.sinanet.com.tw [139.175.250.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05646 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:08:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ywliu1@tao.sinanet.com.tw) Received: (from ywliu1@localhost) by tao.sinanet.com.tw (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA16356; Sat, 30 May 1998 08:07:53 +0800 (CST) From: Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu Message-Id: <199805300007.IAA16356@tao.sinanet.com.tw> Subject: Re: OpenBSD 2.3... In-Reply-To: from "Jan B. Koum" at "May 28, 98 06:25:52 pm" To: jkb@best.com (Jan B. Koum) Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 08:07:53 +0800 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, > >I just received my OpenBSD 2.3 CD-ROM today.. Well, the project is openly > >crying for help in the CD booklet!! > > You mean, the want money? No way! Yes; sort of like the statement you can see on www.openbsd.org. It goes like ".. No major funding or cost-sharing of the project comes from any compnay or educational institution.... Theo has spent more than $30,000(CDN) to make OpenBSD run so far ... Please be generous since the project is typically not in strong financial health..." > >A wild thinking, why doesn't FreeBSD, Inc. merge OpenBSD , like some other > >mergers to make the BSD world stronger ? ^_^ > Because for people to work together they also need to like each > other and have same goals. Especially if you are doing this for free (and > not quite so for free as it is in OpenBSD case). I get the point. Well, call me a dreamer; I just want to see a united world of free BSDs. ^_^ Yen-Wei Liu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 17:38:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11898 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:38:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tao.sinanet.com.tw (tao.sinanet.com.tw [139.175.250.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11871 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:38:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ywliu1@tao.sinanet.com.tw) Received: (from ywliu1@localhost) by tao.sinanet.com.tw (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA16929; Sat, 30 May 1998 08:38:24 +0800 (CST) From: Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu Message-Id: <199805300038.IAA16929@tao.sinanet.com.tw> Subject: Re: OpenBSD 2.3... In-Reply-To: <356E199F.11B0E486@aei.ca> from Malartre at "May 28, 98 10:12:47 pm" To: malartre@aei.ca (Malartre) Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 08:38:24 +0800 (CST) Cc: jkb@best.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I have nothing against anyone, any project. But I've readed Theo's > coremail:http://www.theos.com/~deraadt/coremail.html > I've a lot of question in head now. To much questions. > Search "FreeBSD" in that page. The problem is than its only a log and everyone > seems to lie. > Hi, I didn't finish reading it. I browsed it quickly and , well, yes, had a lot of question marks in the head. What had Theo done to make NetBSD really angry ? Why did NetBSD core team member call Jordan a liar ? Looks like NetBSD project is not friendly to FreeBSD project... Anyway, my dream to unite the free BSDs will just be never-ending... ^_^ Yen-Wei Liu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 17:45:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13068 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13042 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:45:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA07904; Sat, 30 May 1998 10:52:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199805300052.KAA07904@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: OpenBSD 2.3... In-Reply-To: <199805300038.IAA16929@tao.sinanet.com.tw> from Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu at "May 30, 98 08:38:24 am" To: ywliu1@tao.sinanet.com.tw (Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu) Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:52:47 +1000 (EST) Cc: malartre@aei.ca, jkb@best.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu wrote: > I didn't finish reading it. I browsed it quickly and , well, yes, had a lot > of question marks in the head. What had Theo done to make NetBSD really angry ? > Why did NetBSD core team member call Jordan a liar ? Looks like NetBSD project > is not friendly to FreeBSD project... > > Anyway, my dream to unite the free BSDs will just be never-ending... ^_^ Then please stop this discussion _now_. You are playing with fire. You cannot re-write history, so please just let it remain history . -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 18:19:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18458 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 18:19:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (root@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18448 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 18:19:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13979; Fri, 29 May 1998 15:15:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd026640; Fri May 29 14:34:57 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15936; Fri, 29 May 1998 14:34:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805292134.OAA15936@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Fix for undefined "__error" and discussion of shared object versioning To: alk@pobox.com Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:34:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com In-Reply-To: <199805282249.RAA03682@pobox.com> from "Tony Kimball" at May 28, 98 05:49:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Various points: > > 1 Non-portable != broken. Bah humbug. That's *exactly* the definition of "broken". Code that fails to compile under GCC could be termed "non-portable to GCC" otherwise. > 2 I'm amazed to see this coming from Nate "Java" Williams! > Gcc is the *platform*. Gcc is what makes code portable, > not ANSI, which is merely an idea, and not a platform. So compile FreeBSD up for SPARC. I'd like a copy... > 3 People use gccisms because then they don't have to write asm, > which is much *less* portable. Using gcc'isms to get assembly features is not architecturally transferrable. It is better to seperate machine dependent and independent code into seperate modules. This may include the use of machine-variant header files to get this, but that's irrelevent. > 4 Are you planning on fixing them? Egad, the number of ports! If the patches are submitted back, I'm sure if the code is actively maintained, the maintainers will be interested in increased code portability. I know I would be. The larger the audience for the code, the better. > > Better/faster/less buggy compiler with a much less restrictive Copyright > > seems like a win overall to me. > > Remains to be seen, as far as I am concerned. Various points: > > 1 TenDRA should be compared to GCC 2.8.1, not 2.7.2.1. Agreed. > 2 GPL should not be a restriction in practice for anyone > except someone who wants to retain source for a commercialization > of added-value back-end code generation under FreeBSD, since there > are plenty of source-to-source compilers suitable as front-ends to > GCC. Since the amount of money to be made doing this is a negative > number, it's not a restriction in practice. This should be allowed. GPL disallows this. Note that private implementation languages would all have to be built as translaters for your plan to be viable, and that's not a reasonable restriction. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 18:43:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22768 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 18:43:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22736 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 18:43:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-37.aei.ca [206.186.204.187]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27673; Fri, 29 May 1998 21:42:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <356F640C.D58B2F7D@aei.ca> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:42:36 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu CC: jkb@best.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD 2.3... References: <199805300038.IAA16929@tao.sinanet.com.tw> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu wrote: > > > > I have nothing against anyone, any project. But I've readed Theo's > > coremail:http://www.theos.com/~deraadt/coremail.html > > I've a lot of question in head now. To much questions. > > Search "FreeBSD" in that page. The problem is than its only a log and everyone > > seems to lie. > > > > Hi, > > I didn't finish reading it. I browsed it quickly and , well, yes, had a lot > of question marks in the head. What had Theo done to make NetBSD really angry ? > Why did NetBSD core team member call Jordan a liar ? Looks like NetBSD project > is not friendly to FreeBSD project... > > Anyway, my dream to unite the free BSDs will just be never-ending... ^_^ > > Yen-Wei Liu I've mailed to Theo... and surprise! He reply. Sorry if I restart an old maybe boring discution. ********** Malartre: > What's the point on FreeBSD. Any contact between core team? Theo de Raadt: No, not really -- there is very little communication. But there is one difference between OpenBSD and the other groups that sets us aside: We take GREAT PRIDE in watching the other groups and pulling their good changes into our source tree. But.. they don't watch what we do (they do once in a while, but on the whole they barely pay any attention to what we are doing) NetBSD and FreeBSD don't even really watch each other's source trees. We watch both, plus also the work done by other groups and sub-groups on the net. We also watch the bug reports that the other groups get, and try to fix those bugs before they do. Add to that our own work, and we end up doing a significant amount of work. Out of this huge mess of conflicting and non-conflicting changes, we try to find a path which makes OpenBSD the best system we can make it. Hope this answers your questions. Please understand that if you ask further questions you might not get such a long answer... I'm incredibly busy. ********** Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ Unix FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 29 19:35:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29335 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 19:35:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org ([207.242.81.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29325 for ; Fri, 29 May 1998 19:35:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00733; Fri, 29 May 1998 21:34:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <356F7049.70476435@airnet.net> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:34:50 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD 2.3... References: <199805300038.IAA16929@tao.sinanet.com.tw> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu wrote: > > > > > I have nothing against anyone, any project. But I've readed Theo's > > coremail:http://www.theos.com/~deraadt/coremail.html > > I've a lot of question in head now. To much questions. > > Search "FreeBSD" in that page. The problem is than its only a log and everyone > > seems to lie. > > I just looked and found an identical web site /deraadt. Hmmm... Looky here: This is a new coremail file, since the old one was hacked by someone AND PIECES WERE DELETED FROM IT! I knew *something* was missing... -- Kris Kirby --------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 30 00:25:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA08844 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 30 May 1998 00:25:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA08777 for ; Sat, 30 May 1998 00:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA29609; Sat, 30 May 1998 00:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805300724.AAA29609@implode.root.com> To: Malartre cc: Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu , jkb@best.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD 2.3... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 21:42:36 EDT." <356F640C.D58B2F7D@aei.ca> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:24:36 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Malartre: >> What's the point on FreeBSD. Any contact between core team? >Theo de Raadt: >No, not really -- there is very little communication. But there is >one difference between OpenBSD and the other groups that sets us >aside: > >We take GREAT PRIDE in watching the other groups and pulling their >good changes into our source tree. But.. they don't watch what we do >(they do once in a while, but on the whole they barely pay any >attention to what we are doing) NetBSD and FreeBSD don't even really >watch each other's source trees. We watch both, plus also the work Theo is welcome to his opinion. However, the fact is that people in the FreeBSD group do watch OpenBSD and NetBSD for important changes and incorporate them into FreeBSD if they are relevant and useful. But none of this makes any difference. We have different and conflicting personalities in the groups that make a merger of people impossible. Let me repeat: this will never happen, and any force applied in that direction is very much unwelcome. We are all working on FreeBSD because we enjoy doing it. Our core team is made up of people that generally get along quite well and I'll fight to the end to make sure it stays that way. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 30 03:08:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24240 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 30 May 1998 03:08:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24235 for ; Sat, 30 May 1998 03:08:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id MAA09243; Sat, 30 May 1998 12:08:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 30 May 1998 12:08:25 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Kris Kirby Cc: Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD 2.3... References: <199805300038.IAA16929@tao.sinanet.com.tw> <356F7049.70476435@airnet.net> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 30 May 1998 12:08:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: Kris Kirby's message of "Fri, 29 May 1998 21:34:50 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kirby writes: > Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu wrote: > > > I have nothing against anyone, any project. But I've readed Theo's > > > coremail:http://www.theos.com/~deraadt/coremail.html > > > I've a lot of question in head now. To much questions. > > > Search "FreeBSD" in that page. The problem is than its only a log and everyone > > > seems to lie. > I just looked and found an identical web site /deraadt. Hmmm... Looky > here: > This is a new coremail file, since the old one was hacked by someone AND > PIECES WERE DELETED FROM IT! > > I knew *something* was missing... Mmm, was that foot tasty or what? Look a little closer... Anyway, although I have not read the entire "coremail" file (yet?), I believe that every matter has at least two sides, and my impression from Theo's pages as well as from the OpenBSD site is that NetBSD is not the only villain here. I'm not even sure NetBSD is a villain at all. And I know for a fact that Theo's mail which was forwarded to this list is a damned lie. I know of at least one FreeBSD committer who is also, IIRC, an OpenBSD committer. BTW, just to pick one random directory: des@fixus-ipv6 /home/ncvs/src/usr.bin$ find . -name "*,v" -print | xargs egrep -i "^Obtained.*(OpenBSD|NetBSD)" | wc -l 274 -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 30 03:39:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26028 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 30 May 1998 03:39:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org ([207.242.81.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA25985 for ; Sat, 30 May 1998 03:39:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA00765; Sat, 30 May 1998 05:39:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <356FE1E6.FD8E609A@airnet.net> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 05:39:34 -0500 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD 2.3... References: <199805300038.IAA16929@tao.sinanet.com.tw> <356F7049.70476435@airnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > Kris Kirby writes: > > Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu wrote: > > > > I have nothing against anyone, any project. But I've readed Theo's > > > > coremail:http://www.theos.com/~deraadt/coremail.html > > > > I've a lot of question in head now. To much questions. > > > > Search "FreeBSD" in that page. The problem is than its only a log and everyone > > > > seems to lie. > > I just looked and found an identical web site /deraadt. Hmmm... Looky > > here: > > This is a new coremail file, since the old one was hacked by someone AND > > PIECES WERE DELETED FROM IT! > > > > I knew *something* was missing... > > Mmm, was that foot tasty or what? Look a little closer... Yeah buddy... > Anyway, although I have not read the entire "coremail" file (yet?), I > believe that every matter has at least two sides, and my impression > from Theo's pages as well as from the OpenBSD site is that NetBSD is > not the only villain here. I'm not even sure NetBSD is a villain at > all. And I know for a fact that Theo's mail which was forwarded to > this list is a damned lie. I know of at least one FreeBSD committer > who is also, IIRC, an OpenBSD committer. I would like to revise someone's earlier entry about "playing with fire" to "fishing with dynamite" (Apologizes to the AU folks). It seems more appropriate for meddling in the affairs of the Three BSDs. I withdraw from this conversation. Go ahead and slam me, etc... I'll just laugh at you. (directed toward the audience, not necessarily the last speaker). But this is a *very* controversial subject and I don't want to be attributed to using the "Jaws of Life" to open a 55 gallon drum of worms... -- Kris Kirby --------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 30 10:00:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01169 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 30 May 1998 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tao.sinanet.com.tw (tao.sinanet.com.tw [139.175.250.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01049 for ; Sat, 30 May 1998 09:59:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ywliu1@tao.sinanet.com.tw) Received: (from ywliu1@localhost) by tao.sinanet.com.tw (8.8.8/8.8.5) id AAA04303; Sun, 31 May 1998 00:59:14 +0800 (CST) From: Hoffmann Yen-Wei Liu Message-Id: <199805301659.AAA04303@tao.sinanet.com.tw> Subject: Re: OpenBSD 2.3... In-Reply-To: <199805300052.KAA07904@cimlogic.com.au> from John Birrell at "May 30, 98 10:52:47 am" To: jb@cimlogic.com.au (John Birrell) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 00:59:13 +0800 (CST) Cc: malartre@aei.ca, jkb@best.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> Then please stop this discussion _now_. You are playing with fire. > You cannot re-write history, so please just let it remain history . Okay.. I don't know either about the history or it is a taboo to ask this kind of question.... I don't know this is playing with fire and well, the history is not in any FAQs.... I will stop asking anything about it. Thank you. ywliu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 30 20:29:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22225 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 30 May 1998 20:29:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22150; Sat, 30 May 1998 20:28:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-29-76.wnck11.pacbell.net [206.170.29.76]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id UAA13043; Sat, 30 May 1998 20:26:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: Cc: "David Greenman" , "Justin T. Gibbs" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Subject: notFreeBSD plan, v 4 Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:11:59 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd8c41$e0262100$4a1daace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org the attachment is a probably better formatted version of this. removal of this copyright notice is prohibited. if you find this of use, $200 cash or $500 zero coupon bond (post dated check) is requested. authorized firms $10k. professional entities required. trademarks implied. redistribution encouraged.* resistance is futile. (c) sandy king 1998 notFreeBSD, Inc BUSINESS PLAN May 29, 1998, V4 "To produce the best possible software at the lowest possible price while making stakeholders rich." PRICING - free on the net $39.95 - limited support 139.95 - some support and free stuff - boxed product. 789.95 - 24 hr, international support that's very good. /year. on site with negotiated expenses paid. 10k - commercial server Two revenue streams -- revisions/customizations and service. for the revision part of the stream, MS can't have a monopoly on Personal Computer OS's. ALLIANCES 1) COREL: Michael Cowpland, Canada. 0% market share that once owned Unix. this is the only ms office competitor i can think of. their market cap went from nothing to by some values (other companies write offs, Unix(r) and WordPerfect) huge (1.5B and back almost to nothing. (144M) 2) APPLE: Steve Jobs, is struggling for 3% market share also. the legal tactic would benefit them more. Steve Jobs used to run a Unix company worth $400M. (3.7B) 3) GATEWAY: Director, Amiga operating system. (7.1B) 4) IBM: President, OS/2 operating system. (115B) 5) Netscape. stage 3 merger candidate. 6) Tim O'Reilly, O'Reilly & Associates, Freeware advocate. 7) John Ousterhout, Scriptics Corp, Freeware advocate. GNU? x? COMPENSATION STRUCTURE: contribution metrics: * # emails on list, exponentially decreasing average. * # & length (outside of comments) emails on list, exponentially decreasing average. * lines of source code, minus symbol only lines. * core team members. * popular vote, clicking on the web. * others yet devised. the metrics are fractal averaged and applied to shareholders equal to their contribution. money is split in two, 1/2 to staff and 1/2 to monetary shareholders, after expenses of running the operation. there needs to be a board of directors that watches this. [this section needs work, exactly how the money is going to be split between monetary contributors and labor contributors.] MARKETING * volunteers rack-job copies of Greg Lehey's book to bookstores. * cheapest click ads (illegal to advertise DPO). * sandy king wants to be multimedia spokesmodel. "FreeBSD should have a good looking woman as their spokesmodel." FISCAL Projected Revenue: 3% market share 100M users (100M is low -- MS is in Chinese offices too.) = 3M users. 3% buy the expensive package. = 90k x $700 / year = $72M. xx% buy the cheap package. = 3M x $30 = $90M ------------------------------------------ ~= 50 M for each release and 50 M per year. future: there are about 5B people on the world, and probably half of them will want a computer. *everything* else is free. except tshirts and books. ORGANIZATION: CEO reports to CTO. FINANCING: stage 0 cash float float float float float flow released for sale total public reserve ($5k) 0% 0 (50M) (20M) 50M * Articles of Incorporation. * Board of Directors, 5 to 7. * legal corporation with 50M shares. --- DPO "We need your money for: service organization and internal product marketing & sales. Click here." stage 1 - DPO - Direct Public Offering cash float float float float float flow released for sale total public reserve $1 x 5M 20% 5M 10M 5M 40M "10M shares released for money and Past contribution." $ accountant $ secretaries $ IP lawyer - joe siino $ sales manager - chris bura - payment for services from Public float fund. stage 2 - organization building cash float float float float float flow released for sale total public reserve $2 x 5M 20% 5M 20M 10M 30M "10M shares released for Current contributions." this needs a defining limit: income: internal cash flow. $ programmers $ sales force --- IPO "We need the money for: global product launch." stage 3 - IPO cash float float float float float flow released for sale total public reserve $8 x 10M 40% 10M 40M 20M 10M $ marketing $ lawyers (it would be better if we didn't need them by this time. stage N - running corporation, 3% market share cash float float float float float flow released for sale total public reserve 50M + 50M/ 0 0 50M 20M ? "product development and service." 100M yearly revenue. 40M shares @ $8 share = 320M market cap. (somewhere else i guessed the market value of the enterprise at 400M.) with a fancy investment banking firm (D H Blair) you can issue warrants instead of common stock to obscure the dilution issues. this is still a small cap company. * the company should have no year-end profit, except what is needed for business cycle downturns and projected investments. save with financial instruments in other small hitech companies. SALARIES 250 125 65 35 single parents jump up one level. no-one should be at a level if the lower orbital isn't full. outside staff has preference over inside staff. everyone can buy shares. salaries should jump between levels. excess corporate income is distributed to labor stakeholders. 30 hour work week. on-site day care. free food and shelter and toys. if i thought i could earn $250k/year as low pressure coder and tech support helper in exotic locations, i'd share my source code. PRESS Releases (Business Wire - $50) accusing MS of damaging us. The MS analysts will read them. carefully. LEGAL as long as one ap doesn't run on a system, you'll have about 0% of the general office market. so either the shim into the OS has to be PD or the whole OS. free windows 98. -FreeBSD. the UI and OS can be separate. it is on FreeBSD. FreeBSD is a vastly superior OS. the UI is ok, too, but the ap's don't run. the windows 98 OS should be separated from the rest of ms, however gates wants to cut it with approval from the people at ms that want to work on that team. after cutting it, he should be free to compete against win 98. force Bill Gates to restate earnings, almost no matter which way. From: Ben Cohen Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... How about forcing MS to release their OS source code? Perhaps under a license such as the Berkeley one or, I think more realistically, something more like GPL. CVS tree. --- [the entire MS strategy can be deleted from the first public version of the business plan and the plan needs adjusting but it would still be acceptable to the investment community.] ------------------------------------------------------- misc notes ------------------------------------------------------- Jordan: >Technical Support Infrastructure: 24 hr triage center staffed by someone that can answer many questions. this can be set up as a virtual network out of some small central office. then flowchart to logged in volunteers -- they know the pay scale ahead of time. we pay for phone service. ? in africa. then more dispatch to on-call specialists. volunteer queue of people in places willing to travel all expenses paid. Jordan: >how to even word the support contracts so that neither customer nor >company is left unduly exposed: "we take no responsibility for your system. we will do our dangest to rectify your issue, but our development team takes no orders. we will stand behind our money-back guarantee as last resort." [instead of `dangest', a word like `best' is fodder for lawsuits.] maybe modeled on something IBM would have written, but with 97% edited out. there should be a section about alliances with Dell or Gateway supplying preconfigured FreeBSD boxes. i'd love to see a Gateway ad on TV saying, "This is what Yahoo runs: FreeBSD. order your own for $2295." -------------------- NEEDED: email addresses of: steve jobs, apple os/2 president amiga director Cowpland, Corel states attorney generals general counsel, MS federal prosecution To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 30 22:27:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05417 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 30 May 1998 22:27:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05396; Sat, 30 May 1998 22:27:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA17428; Sun, 31 May 1998 01:21:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 01:21:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Jack Velte cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: notFreeBSD plan, v 4 In-Reply-To: <01bd8c41$e0262100$4a1daace@eliot.pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 30 May 1998, Jack Velte wrote: > contribution metrics: > * # emails on list, exponentially decreasing average. > * # & length (outside of comments) emails on list, > exponentially decreasing average. > * lines of source code, minus symbol only lines. > * core team members. > * popular vote, clicking on the web. Egads! None of those could work. Among other things, we strive to minimize source code size, and the mailing-lists already suffer from too much mail. > "To produce the best possible software at the lowest possible price > while making stakeholders rich." I think a slightly fundamental problem is that too many people here do not share your vision. If they (we) were interested in $$$, better ways to make $$$ than throwing away many hours into a volunteer project would have long-ago been found. Perhaps that's the "problem" with developing a philosophy for FreeBSD. MS, for example, can simply state their mission as `to dominate the desktop', or whatever. They then unite behind this. The reasons for the existance of FreeBSD are much much more varied and too complex to allow a simple mission statement. Consider the range from the dedicated researcher-advocate (a-la Terry Lambert) to those under corporate influence (a-la the guy from Sun interested in porting FreeBSD to whatever non-Intel architecture (my memory ability varies inversely with the hour, so excuse my here :)) to the young kid hacker who just wants to know what makes his computer go (or whatever sound he hears it making). -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 30 23:21:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11281 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 30 May 1998 23:21:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11276; Sat, 30 May 1998 23:21:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-29-76.wnck11.pacbell.net [206.170.29.76]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id XAA19045; Sat, 30 May 1998 23:20:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" Cc: , Subject: Re: notFreeBSD plan, v 4 Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:15:13 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd8c5b$78bff300$4a1daace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org i forgot, please follow up to freebsd-advocacy. thanks, -jack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message