From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 02:08:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA22782 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:08:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA22776 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:08:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.81]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2515; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:08:39 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981219173154.06b97f10@mail.lariat.org> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:14:56 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Brett Glass Subject: RE: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 20-Dec-98 Brett Glass wrote: > This may have made Sears a tempting acquisition target for cash-rich > Microsoft, which in 1998 surpassed General Electric to attain the largest > market capitalization of any American company. > however, Gates said that he could not recall its meaning. Man, this is starting to sound like the Corps from a Shadowrun game... Next thing Bill wants full control over what TV stations will be airing. Ick, ick, ick. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Pax vobiscum... asmodai(at)wxs.nl Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 02:12:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA23190 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:12:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles356.castles.com [208.214.167.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA23184; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:12:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA42851; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:10:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812201010.CAA42851@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: visiting the bay area In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:46:02 PST." <199812200146.RAA16990@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:10:24 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > as part of my new job, i will be in the san jose, sunnyvale, santa > clara area from sunday night to tuesday midday. anyone want to get > together on monday night? > > my email access will be sporadic at best ;( Probably better have put this on -chat then. I've copied a few other random souls; sorry if you're already on -chat. > i will be staying at > EMBASSY SUITES > EMBASSY SUITES > 901 CALAVERAS BLVD > MILPITAS CA 95035 PHONE-408 942-0400 > FAX-408 262-8604 Sounds like an idea. Folks interested in "something" can mail me with suggestions & I'll see if I can coordinate; I'd guess "eat somewhere" is probably the best, but I'm not down that way so recommendations would be handy. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 02:16:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA23403 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:16:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA23397 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:16:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.81]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6628 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:15:58 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:22:16 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: IBM DB2 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, For those running Linux emulation and want to try IBM's DB2: http://www.software.ibm.com/data/db2/linux/ I just wondered since when these companies started to became charitable companies? --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Pax vobiscum... asmodai(at)wxs.nl Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 02:34:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA24191 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:34:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA24186 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:34:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.81]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6E99 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:34:14 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:40:30 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Sun Source Code? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yikes! This is one hell of a step: http://www.sun.com/981208/scsl/;$sessionid$2TQNJCAAAI5IHAMUVFZE4GUBSSUXEUDO Sun's Community Source Licensing Principles Our Community Source Licensing Model is the result of our continued commitment to the open development of key technologies, and is based on our public license principles: Immediate open access Increased innovation Increased workforce Faster commercialization Access for students Sun's model sets a new standard for software licensing that takes the best of traditional and current open business models to provide for accountability and commercial-grade requirements. By sharing source code in a fashion similar to an open source style of license, our new model builds on a concept of community -- a group of people with common interests who agree to common rights and responsibilities to share source code among members, ensure compatibility, and allow choice of business models from more open to more proprietary. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Pax vobiscum... asmodai(at)wxs.nl Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 04:32:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA06852 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 04:32:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA06837; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 04:31:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 04:31:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812201231.EAA06837@hub.freebsd.org> From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: mike@smith.net.au CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, julian@whistle.com In-reply-to: <199812201010.CAA42851@dingo.cdrom.com> (message from Mike Smith on Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:10:24 -0800) Subject: Re: visiting the bay area References: <199812201010.CAA42851@dingo.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, julian@whistle.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:10:24 -0800 > From: Mike Smith > > > > > as part of my new job, i will be in the san jose, sunnyvale, santa > > clara area from sunday night to tuesday midday. anyone want to get > > together on monday night? > > > > my email access will be sporadic at best ;( > > Probably better have put this on -chat then. I've copied a few other > random souls; sorry if you're already on -chat. you are right....i blew it by sending it to current. rather embarassing thing for the postmaster to do. ;( jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 06:30:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15617 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 06:30:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA15610 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 06:30:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA04092; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:30:34 +0200 (EET) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:30:34 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: IBM DB2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 20 Dec 1998, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > Hi, > > For those running Linux emulation and want to try IBM's DB2: > > http://www.software.ibm.com/data/db2/linux/ > > I just wondered since when these companies started to became charitable companies? > They do it so that WinNT pressure is lessened. Lets say you have asmall database site & system (built using the free IBM DB2) which at some point is so big linux can take it no more. Result - you by big IBM harware and DB2. And it is only Beta that is available free (so they can get the bug reports), nothings says the real thing will be. Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. > --- > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Pax vobiscum... > asmodai(at)wxs.nl > Network/Security Specialist > BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 07:36:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20188 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:36:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA20176 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:35:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA30514; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:35:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New user group! From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 20 Dec 1998 16:35:54 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 23 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind and I are pleased to announce the creation of the Oslo FreeBSD User Group (OFUG, pronounced "Oh, fuck!", as in what I say half an hour after committing a patch that breaks make world, or what Eivind says after reading mail from Bruce). OFUG's first meeting was held yesterday at my place with myself, Eivind and three FreeBSD l^Husers present, and was marked by heavy consumption of cooked fowl (prepared by Eivind, who is as good a cook as he is a committer, with assistance from yours truly, who is as poor a cook as he is a committer) and wh^H^Horange juice of various brands (including Aberlour and MacAllan). The purpose of OFUG is to provide a focal point for FreeBSD in the Oslo area (plus/minus a few hundred miles). Membership is granted upon request to anyone who develops, uses or has heard of FreeBSD. Meetings are held at irregular intervals in any place with an adequate supply of wh^H^Horange juice and other life-essential supplies. Happy hacking, DES (pash me she whish... (hic) oranshe tshuishe!) -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 07:41:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20725 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:41:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA20719 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:41:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4018.ime.net [209.90.195.28]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id KAA27748; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:41:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220103552.00c013e0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:38:58 -0500 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Brett Glass From: Drew Baxter Subject: RE: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981219173154.06b97f10@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:14 AM 12/20/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >On 20-Dec-98 Brett Glass wrote: > >> This may have made Sears a tempting acquisition target for cash-rich >> Microsoft, which in 1998 surpassed General Electric to attain the largest >> market capitalization of any American company. >> however, Gates said that he could not recall its meaning. > >Man, this is starting to sound like the Corps from a Shadowrun game... > >Next thing Bill wants full control over what TV stations will be airing. > >Ick, ick, ick. > This is a classic demonstration of Microsoft yet again buying into a market in which they do not belong. SOOO how many users does Microsoft Network have? Noone cares, America Online bought out that market ages ago. My brother made a valid point.. All Sears sells is like Packard Bell and other horrid computers.. He said "When you combine shit with shit, your result is still shit..".. I think that's the easiest interpretation of it. What's next, blenders? toasters? I mean hell they've already got their little cable TV station, and then they own WEBTV too.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 07:45:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21154 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:45:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21146 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:45:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4018.ime.net [209.90.195.28]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id KAA27761; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:45:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220104011.00a4dee0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:42:55 -0500 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Chat From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:40 AM 12/20/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >Yikes! > >This is one hell of a step: > >http://www.sun.com/981208/scsl/;$sessionid$2TQNJCAAAI5IHAMUVFZE4GUBSSUXEUDO > >Sun's Community Source Licensing Principles [....] I gotta say, this is interesting.. it seems like IBM and Sun are suddenly becoming involved into the Open Source. Very weird, but I've gotta say, SUN is the same place that made sure to say [We're better than Windows NT, after all, we actually released our new OS] :-) I don't get where they can sell copies of Solaris for 10 bucks either.. Very odd company, Sun is. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 07:58:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA22153 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:58:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA22145; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:58:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:58:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812201558.HAA22145@hub.freebsd.org> From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com CC: asmodai@wxs.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <4.1.19981220104011.00a4dee0@genesis.ispace.com> (message from Drew Baxter on Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:42:55 -0500) Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? References: <4.1.19981220104011.00a4dee0@genesis.ispace.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:42:55 -0500 > From: Drew Baxter > > I don't get where they can sell copies of Solaris for 10 bucks either.. > Very odd company, Sun is. get solaris in the hands of as many people as possible. get them used to it and wanting to use it. when their needs grow, sell them sun hardware. anything to compete against microsoft. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 08:02:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22348 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:02:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA22310; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:01:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4018.ime.net [209.90.195.28]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id LAA27832; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:01:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220105724.00c06100@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:59:46 -0500 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? Cc: asmodai@wxs.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812201558.HAA22145@hub.freebsd.org> References: <4.1.19981220104011.00a4dee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220104011.00a4dee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:58 AM 12/20/98 -0800, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: >> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:42:55 -0500 >> From: Drew Baxter >> >> I don't get where they can sell copies of Solaris for 10 bucks either.. >> Very odd company, Sun is. > > get solaris in the hands of as many people as possible. get them > used to it and wanting to use it. when their needs grow, sell them > sun hardware. anything to compete against microsoft. > Considering the lack of support for Solaris X86, that I can see. Life would be a whole lot easier on me if they would just port all of the Netscape servers to BSDI or Linux, then hopefully they'd work with FreeBSD as well. I'm not apt to hauling to MiniComputer Exchange and spending 1500$ on a Sparc 20.. I have the Solaris X86 and the Sparc versions, got them right before V7 came out.. I nuked the box almost instantly, I'll just stick with the FreeBSD one, at least that comes with a copy of CC in the distrib :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 08:08:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23133 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:08:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23127; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:08:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.121]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA414A; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:08:04 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199812201558.HAA22145@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:14:22 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 20-Dec-98 Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: >> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:42:55 -0500 >> From: Drew Baxter >> >> I don't get where they can sell copies of Solaris for 10 bucks either.. >> Very odd company, Sun is. > > get solaris in the hands of as many people as possible. get them > used to it and wanting to use it. when their needs grow, sell them > sun hardware. anything to compete against microsoft. Well, I have used all kinds of Sun hardware when I was still studying and I have to say, a SparcStation is not bad... And since we have a architecture port of FreeBSD coming/available ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 08:10:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23288 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:10:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23220; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:09:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA05143; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:09:55 +0200 (EET) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:09:55 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, asmodai@wxs.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? In-Reply-To: <199812201558.HAA22145@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 20 Dec 1998, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:42:55 -0500 > > From: Drew Baxter > > > > I don't get where they can sell copies of Solaris for 10 bucks either.. > > Very odd company, Sun is. > > get solaris in the hands of as many people as possible. get them > used to it and wanting to use it. when their needs grow, sell them > sun hardware. anything to compete against microsoft. > Actually, as Solris is 10 bucks for personal use only, the equation really is - give people Solaris, so they are used to it. They know Solaris, so they will want to put it to use, so now is the moment to sell them the multi-user licence and make money. > jmb > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 08:12:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23651 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:12:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23645; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:12:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4018.ime.net [209.90.195.28]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id LAA27883; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:12:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220110745.00bb2a50@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:10:14 -0500 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , "Jonathan M. Bresler" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199812201558.HAA22145@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:14 PM 12/20/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >On 20-Dec-98 Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: >>> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:42:55 -0500 >>> From: Drew Baxter >>> >>> I don't get where they can sell copies of Solaris for 10 bucks either.. >>> Very odd company, Sun is. >> >> get solaris in the hands of as many people as possible. get them >> used to it and wanting to use it. when their needs grow, sell them >> sun hardware. anything to compete against microsoft. > >Well, I have used all kinds of Sun hardware when I was still studying and I >have >to say, a SparcStation is not bad... And since we have a architecture port of >FreeBSD coming/available ;) Problem is, Sun hardware is uncharted territory for me. I don't know what would work for my application, which is about 3 heavy duty Netscape servers. The PII-333 128mb that I have running NT 4 Workstation right now crawls.. I know it's not the machine either, because mine running 95 is faster, and my FreeBSD box running with only 32mb runs faster than all 3.. So I guess a more appropriate question would be, what would apply to the purpose.. and if FreeBSD is going to be ported to Sparc, when, and will it do Solaris binaries? :-) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 08:17:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24040 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:17:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24034; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:17:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4018.ime.net [209.90.195.28]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id LAA27896; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:17:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220111041.00c03b40@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:15:07 -0500 To: Narvi , "Jonathan M. Bresler" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? Cc: asmodai@wxs.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199812201558.HAA22145@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:09 PM 12/20/98 +0200, Narvi wrote: >Actually, as Solris is 10 bucks for personal use only, the equation really >is - > give people Solaris, so they are used to it. They know Solaris, so > they will want to put it to use, so now is the moment to sell them > the multi-user licence and make money. Personal? I think you'll find it says (on the letter that comes with the 10 dollar kit): "I am delighted you've reached out to this special Solaris operating environment promotion for enthusiasts, non-commercial developers, members of the academic community, and other non-commercial enthusiasts worldwide wanting access to this industry-leading development platform". That's a little different than 'personal use only'. Especially since I work in a school. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 08:23:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24314 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:23:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24308; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:23:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA05364; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:23:15 +0200 (EET) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:23:15 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Drew Baxter cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , asmodai@wxs.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981220111041.00c03b40@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 20 Dec 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 06:09 PM 12/20/98 +0200, Narvi wrote: > >Actually, as Solris is 10 bucks for personal use only, the equation really > >is - > > give people Solaris, so they are used to it. They know Solaris, so > > they will want to put it to use, so now is the moment to sell them > > the multi-user licence and make money. > > Personal? I think you'll find it says (on the letter that comes with the > 10 dollar kit): > > "I am delighted you've reached out to this special Solaris operating > environment promotion for enthusiasts, non-commercial developers, members > of the academic community, and other non-commercial enthusiasts worldwide > wanting access to this industry-leading development platform". > > That's a little different than 'personal use only'. Especially since I > work in a school. > I see. I wrote personal use only because I saw the string "single user licence" somewhere. And single user == personal use in a sense (well, ok, maybe the sense is probably not so apparent to the native English speakers). If the CDE on the CD worked with FreeBSD emulation of SVR4.... Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. > > --- > Drew "Droobie" Baxter > Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) > OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA > http://www.droo.orland.me.us > > PGP ID: 409A1F7D > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 08:28:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24989 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:28:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24976; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:28:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4018.ime.net [209.90.195.28]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id LAA27956; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:28:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220112416.009fdee0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:26:34 -0500 To: Narvi From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? Cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , asmodai@wxs.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981220111041.00c03b40@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:23 PM 12/20/98 +0200, Narvi wrote: [Truncated so I don't kill myself with the pagedown key] >I see. I wrote personal use only because I saw the string "single user >licence" somewhere. And single user == personal use in a sense (well, ok, >maybe the sense is probably not so apparent to the native English >speakers). > >If the CDE on the CD worked with FreeBSD emulation of SVR4.... Hmm.. I know that someone got Solaris x86 bins to work partially via SVR4 emulation if I recall.. Unfortunately that doesn't help matters when Sparc and X86 Solaris binaries are not cross-platform.. Life would be easy if it just said "Solaris" and you could use it. I haven't played with the SVR4 emulation for that reason, the Solaris version of CP, MV, etc. don't interest me when they do basically the same thing as the *BSD ones :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 08:50:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27284 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:50:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27278 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:50:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA36413; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:49:55 -0800 (PST) To: Drew Baxter cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:38:58 EST." <4.1.19981220103552.00c013e0@genesis.ispace.com> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:49:54 -0800 Message-ID: <36409.914172594@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > This is a classic demonstration of Microsoft yet again buying into a market > in which they do not belong. SOOO how many users does Microsoft Network > have? Noone cares, America Online bought out that market ages ago. Why is it that nobody seems to have read far enough into Brett's posting to see that he openly admitted it was a flagrantly bogus press release and merely satirical? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 09:17:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00240 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:17:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00234 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:17:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.106]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2B48; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:17:28 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <36409.914172594@zippy.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:23:48 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass , Drew Baxter Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 20-Dec-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> This is a classic demonstration of Microsoft yet again buying into a market >> in which they do not belong. SOOO how many users does Microsoft Network >> have? Noone cares, America Online bought out that market ages ago. > > Why is it that nobody seems to have read far enough into Brett's > posting to see that he openly admitted it was a flagrantly bogus > press release and merely satirical? *grinning sheepishly* Weren't we discussing hypothetical situations regarding MS FUD's techniques and acquirements then? (Was that convincing enough? =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 09:26:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01060 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:26:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01053 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:26:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4018.ime.net [209.90.195.28]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id MAA00454; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:26:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220122029.00c1a810@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:24:11 -0500 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass In-Reply-To: References: <36409.914172594@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:23 PM 12/20/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >On 20-Dec-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >>> This is a classic demonstration of Microsoft yet again buying into a market >>> in which they do not belong. SOOO how many users does Microsoft Network >>> have? Noone cares, America Online bought out that market ages ago. >> >> Why is it that nobody seems to have read far enough into Brett's >> posting to see that he openly admitted it was a flagrantly bogus >> press release and merely satirical? > >*grinning sheepishly* > >Weren't we discussing hypothetical situations regarding MS FUD's techniques >and acquirements then? > >(Was that convincing enough? =) Ahh you say bogus now, but for every blantant lie, there's a shred of truth don't you know.. Microsoft's going to have to do something to combat Sun/AOL's little 350 million dollar ECommerce deal. Let alone AOL's shopping plaza, AOL's MyNews Service, and many other things. Either they'll buy a store, or they'll build one. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 09:48:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02057 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:48:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02050; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:48:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA30838; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:47:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Drew Baxter Cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , asmodai@wxs.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? References: <4.1.19981220104011.00a4dee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220104011.00a4dee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220105724.00c06100@genesis.ispace.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 20 Dec 1998 18:47:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: Drew Baxter's message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:59:46 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Drew Baxter writes: > I have the Solaris X86 and the Sparc versions, got them right before V7 > came out.. I nuked the box almost instantly, I'll just stick with the > FreeBSD one, at least that comes with a copy of CC in the distrib :) I believe ftp.gnu.org has gcc binaries for Solaris. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 10:46:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08562 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:46:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08554; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:46:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id NAA00676; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:45:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220134117.00bfe410@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:43:14 -0500 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? Cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , asmodai@wxs.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981220104011.00a4dee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220104011.00a4dee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220105724.00c06100@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:47 PM 12/20/98 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >Drew Baxter writes: >> I have the Solaris X86 and the Sparc versions, got them right before V7 >> came out.. I nuked the box almost instantly, I'll just stick with the >> FreeBSD one, at least that comes with a copy of CC in the distrib :) > >I believe ftp.gnu.org has gcc binaries for Solaris. > Sure, and they do.. I got them from Sunsite @ UTK. But that's a lot of work to have to go download gzip and GCC and all of the tools that are pretty much necessary in order to do anything.. Sure the OpenWindows interface and all is kinda neat.. But the thing is a vast resource hog (my P166/32/2.5 I was using didn't work out very well), and at the same time I still feel a lack of control. At least with Linux everything was 'there'.. I just can't stand linux because of knowing where 'there' is.. Not apt to changing something that works fine, so the FreeBSD box is here to stay. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 12:07:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15053 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:07:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15045 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:07:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA46110 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:06:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812202006.MAA46110@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:06:27 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org For a whole 5 minutes or so we were getting snow ... Oops it started again!! Merry Christmas!! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 12:12:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15951 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:12:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ogurok.com (ogurok.com [208.212.72.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15946 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:12:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oleg@ogurok.com) Received: from birch (birch.ogurok.com [209.208.150.186]) by ogurok.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA14906; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:22:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from oleg@ogurok.com) Message-ID: <00a801be2c56$586869c0$ba96d0d1@birch.ogurok.com> From: "Oleg Ogurok" To: , "Amancio Hasty" Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:21:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lucky you ;) I am waiting for the snow in NY. -Oleg. > > >For a whole 5 minutes or so we were getting snow ... Oops it started again!! > > > Merry Christmas!! > Amancio > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 12:15:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16309 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:15:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16304 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:15:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id PAA00865; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:15:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220151248.00ac5c60@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:13:28 -0500 To: "Oleg Ogurok" , , "Amancio Hasty" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-Reply-To: <00a801be2c56$586869c0$ba96d0d1@birch.ogurok.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:21 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Oleg Ogurok wrote: >Lucky you ;) I am waiting for the snow in NY. > >-Oleg. You can have some of mine.. I'm in Maine, already got 6 inches total across Friday and Saturday... so much for that "No white christmas" crap they were talking about on the weather report :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 12:18:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16552 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:18:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16540 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:18:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA46249; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:17:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812202017.MAA46249@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Oleg Ogurok" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:21:36 EST." <00a801be2c56$586869c0$ba96d0d1@birch.ogurok.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:17:38 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Got to admit it is weird to see snow/hail in Sunnyvale and strange that NY doesn't have any snow. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 12:20:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16825 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:20:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles336.castles.com [208.214.167.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16818; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:20:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA46517; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:18:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812202018.MAA46517@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Drew Baxter cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , asmodai@wxs.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:59:46 EST." <4.1.19981220105724.00c06100@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:18:11 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Considering the lack of support for Solaris X86, that I can see. Life > would be a whole lot easier on me if they would just port all of the > Netscape servers to BSDI or Linux, then hopefully they'd work with FreeBSD > as well. I'm not apt to hauling to MiniComputer Exchange and spending > 1500$ on a Sparc 20.. Have a little patience, and there's a tolerable chance that the Solaris versions will run on FreeBSD too. Keep your ears attached to the lists, and be prepared to do a little debugging soon. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 12:21:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17029 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:21:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17024 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:21:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA46296; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:20:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Drew Baxter cc: "Oleg Ogurok" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:13:28 EST." <4.1.19981220151248.00ac5c60@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:20:59 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Main is really off limits to me and I do remember a couple of cool summers that I spent in Main which left me thinking how it will be during the Winter 8) Merry Christmas with Snow or no Snow 8) Amancio > At 03:21 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Oleg Ogurok wrote: > >Lucky you ;) I am waiting for the snow in NY. > > > >-Oleg. > > You can have some of mine.. I'm in Maine, already got 6 inches total across > Friday and Saturday... so much for that "No white christmas" crap they were > talking about on the weather report :) > > > --- > Drew "Droobie" Baxter > Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) > OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA > http://www.droo.orland.me.us > > PGP ID: 409A1F7D > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 12:28:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17699 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:28:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17694 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:28:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id PAA00892; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:28:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:26:34 -0500 To: Amancio Hasty From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Cc: "Oleg Ogurok" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:20 PM 12/20/98 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: >Main is really off limits to me and I do remember a couple of cool summers >that I spent in Main which left me thinking how it will be during the Winter 8) It's not bad here.. We just need ADSL, Cable internet, and PCS Cellular.. Unfortuantely those stop near New Hampshire. Cable internet here will be 89 bucks for 256k/128k.. That's ridiculous. although Bell Atlantic is saying 7.1mb for 189 a month or 640K for 69 a month. THAT I could live with. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 12:30:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18091 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:30:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18085; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:30:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.171]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4CC2; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:30:29 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199812202018.MAA46517@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:36:48 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jonathan M. Bresler" , Drew Baxter Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 20-Dec-98 Mike Smith wrote: >> >> Considering the lack of support for Solaris X86, that I can see. Life >> would be a whole lot easier on me if they would just port all of the >> Netscape servers to BSDI or Linux, then hopefully they'd work with FreeBSD >> as well. I'm not apt to hauling to MiniComputer Exchange and spending >> 1500$ on a Sparc 20.. > > Have a little patience, and there's a tolerable chance that the Solaris > versions will run on FreeBSD too. Keep your ears attached to the > lists, and be prepared to do a little debugging soon. OMG, Mike's at it again? =) Debugging? Sure... (Now where did I put that crashcourse book about GDB?) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 12:38:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18812 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:38:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles336.castles.com [208.214.167.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18800; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:38:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA46610; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:35:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812202035.MAA46610@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jonathan M. Bresler" , Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Sun Source Code? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:36:48 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:35:18 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On 20-Dec-98 Mike Smith wrote: > >> > >> Considering the lack of support for Solaris X86, that I can see. Life > >> would be a whole lot easier on me if they would just port all of the > >> Netscape servers to BSDI or Linux, then hopefully they'd work with FreeBSD > >> as well. I'm not apt to hauling to MiniComputer Exchange and spending > >> 1500$ on a Sparc 20.. > > > > Have a little patience, and there's a tolerable chance that the Solaris > > versions will run on FreeBSD too. Keep your ears attached to the > > lists, and be prepared to do a little debugging soon. > > OMG, Mike's at it again? =) Not me. I just catch the limelight on my boot as I thrust other people into it. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 12:43:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19415 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:43:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA19410 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:43:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA46806; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:43:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812202043.MAA46806@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Drew Baxter cc: "Oleg Ogurok" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:26:34 EST." <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:43:00 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lets see that 1999 brings ... xDSL here in Silicon Valley is way too high : 416kb/sec SDSL at $170/month. Cable brings the promise of affordable high speed internet access or so TCInet net is saying so I am waiting for them to deploy Cable Internet access in Sunnyvale ... I think the rate I was quoted was $45/month 500kb/sec upstream and 3 megabits/sec downstream however TCI was not ready to deploy a month ago :( Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 12:51:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20419 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:51:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20414 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:51:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id PAA00940; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:51:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220154331.00abe360@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:48:56 -0500 To: Amancio Hasty From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Cc: "Oleg Ogurok" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812202043.MAA46806@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:43 PM 12/20/98 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: >Lets see that 1999 brings ... xDSL here in Silicon Valley is way too >high : 416kb/sec SDSL at $170/month. > >Cable brings the promise of affordable high speed internet access or so >TCInet net is saying so I am waiting for them to deploy Cable Internet >access in Sunnyvale ... I think the rate I was quoted was $45/month 500kb/sec >upstream and 3 megabits/sec downstream however TCI was not ready to >deploy a month ago :( Hmm.. InternetMaine/HarvardNet is doing 69 a month for 256K or something like that.. if they come here I'd do it.. It's all ADSL though.. their XDSL services are upwards of 1000/mo for 1.5meg, which is nearing T-1 costs, or a leased 512K. Our cable system is Frontiervision out of Colorado (used to be Cablevision).. Problem is the local ISP (local as in state, not as in city) got ahold of them and entered http://www.fvpmint.net .. MINT only has 3 T-1's total for their entire network, maybe 4 now. I think anyone who follows that road with them is apt to getting screwed. On the brighter side, Time Warner Cable of Maine offers Cable internet at 27mb down (potential via their proxies, they're on multi 100mb ATM's, it's cut off at 10mb/s due to it being dropped to 10-base), and an alleged 8mb upstream with Toshiba PCX-101 modems and a Toshiba designed system. THAT is 45 a month. Bad side is, only the ADSL providers will actually *maybe* let you run servers. The cable providers have something against that, maybe it's due to the covert movement of illegal software and mpeg layer 3 media. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 13:18:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22524 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:18:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22514; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:18:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA04803; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:15:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdgJ4799; Sun Dec 20 21:15:38 1998 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:15:34 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jgrosch@mooseriver.com Subject: Re: visiting the bay area In-Reply-To: <199812201231.EAA06837@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org you should send to the sf FreeBSD usergroup mailinglist.. (will you be her 2nd thursday of the month?.. meeting day) (I erased you roriginal with the dates..) julian On Sun, 20 Dec 1998, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, julian@whistle.com > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:10:24 -0800 > > From: Mike Smith > > > > > > > > as part of my new job, i will be in the san jose, sunnyvale, santa > > > clara area from sunday night to tuesday midday. anyone want to get > > > together on monday night? > > > > > > my email access will be sporadic at best ;( > > > > Probably better have put this on -chat then. I've copied a few other > > random souls; sorry if you're already on -chat. > > you are right....i blew it by sending it to current. > rather embarassing thing for the postmaster to do. ;( > > jmb > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 13:27:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23213 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:27:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23208 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:27:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garycor@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.3.185.85]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.0 201-221-107) with ESMTP id <19981220212717.POFS23562.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@home.com>; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:27:17 -0800 Message-ID: <367D6BFD.EFE5BDE9@home.com> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:28:29 -0500 From: "Gary T. Corcoran" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) References: <4.1.19981220154331.00abe360@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Drew Baxter wrote: > Bad side is, only the ADSL providers will actually *maybe* let you run > servers. The cable providers have something against that, maybe it's due > to the covert movement of illegal software and mpeg layer 3 media. No, it's due to the fact that with cable modems, the upstream bandwidth is shared, similar to Ethernet. If lots of people on your (sub)net ran servers which had lots of out-going traffic, they'd eat up all the bandwidth - even affecting the relatively small amount needed to send Ack's for downstream traffic. @Home (my Internet provider) has, at least in certain areas, supposedly put something in place to limit upstream bandwidth to 128Kbps because sometimes people do run servers (even though they're not supposed to). I've noticed that my uploads to netnews do *not* go blazingly fast - this is probably why. It's a darn shame - I have a 24-hour connection to the 'net, and can't even put up a personal web site from my own pc... :-( Gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 13:32:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23940 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:32:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23935 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id QAA01034; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:32:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220162851.00c11830@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:30:24 -0500 To: "Gary T. Corcoran" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <367D6BFD.EFE5BDE9@home.com> References: <4.1.19981220154331.00abe360@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:28 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Gary T. Corcoran wrote: >Drew Baxter wrote: > >> Bad side is, only the ADSL providers will actually *maybe* let you run >> servers. The cable providers have something against that, maybe it's due >> to the covert movement of illegal software and mpeg layer 3 media. > >No, it's due to the fact that with cable modems, the upstream bandwidth is >shared, similar to Ethernet. If lots of people on your (sub)net ran servers >which had lots of out-going traffic, they'd eat up all the bandwidth - even >affecting the relatively small amount needed to send Ack's for downstream >traffic. @Home (my Internet provider) has, at least in certain areas, >supposedly put something in place to limit upstream bandwidth to 128Kbps >because sometimes people do run servers (even though they're not supposed >to). I've noticed that my uploads to netnews do *not* go blazingly fast >- this is probably why. > >It's a darn shame - I have a 24-hour connection to the 'net, and can't >even put up a personal web site from my own pc... :-( Sure, but we're in Maine of all places.. There's no population whatsoever :) I'm well aware of the shared bandwidth issue, I just think that they should cap off what you do with your upstream. The cable providers let you run servers on two occasions: A> LAN Access, 299$ a month. B> If you put your server physically at the Cable co. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 14:00:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26149 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:00:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26144 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:00:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA16982; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:00:09 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981220145424.06cd8e10@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:58:46 -0700 To: Drew Baxter , "Oleg Ogurok" , , "Amancio Hasty" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981220151248.00ac5c60@genesis.ispace.com> References: <00a801be2c56$586869c0$ba96d0d1@birch.ogurok.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:13 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >You can have some of mine.. I'm in Maine, already got 6 inches total across >Friday and Saturday... so much for that "No white christmas" crap they were >talking about on the weather report :) Ditto here in Wyoming. 50-60 degree temperatures this week until a day ago, then... BOOM! -10 degrees F last night, with about 12 inches of snow. (We rarely get that much at once.) And now it's blowing around in a big, white cloud, making the roads very difficult to navigate. The whole town is having a nice, relaxing Sunday INDOORS.... I'm curled up in front of the fireplace hacking assembly language. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 14:09:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27053 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:09:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (host-e186.tidalwave.net [208.213.203.186] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27048 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:09:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net) Received: (from lee@localhost) by st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) id RAA06721; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:09:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19981220170945.B6616@tidalwave.net> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:09:45 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans To: "Gary T. Corcoran" , Drew Baxter Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <4.1.19981220154331.00abe360@genesis.ispace.com> <367D6BFD.EFE5BDE9@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <367D6BFD.EFE5BDE9@home.com>; from Gary T. Corcoran on Sun, Dec 20, 1998 at 04:28:29PM -0500 X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Dec 20, 1998 at 04:28:29PM -0500, Gary T. Corcoran wrote: > Drew Baxter wrote: > > > Bad side is, only the ADSL providers will actually *maybe* let you run > > servers. The cable providers have something against that, maybe it's due > > to the covert movement of illegal software and mpeg layer 3 media. > > No, it's due to the fact that with cable modems, the upstream bandwidth is > shared, similar to Ethernet. If lots of people on your (sub)net ran servers > which had lots of out-going traffic, they'd eat up all the bandwidth - even > affecting the relatively small amount needed to send Ack's for downstream > traffic. @Home (my Internet provider) has, at least in certain areas, > supposedly put something in place to limit upstream bandwidth to 128Kbps > because sometimes people do run servers (even though they're not supposed > to). I've noticed that my uploads to netnews do *not* go blazingly fast > - this is probably why. Stuff like this is one of the reasons I plan to stick with good old 33.6k analog access...I've been running servers off this machine since mid-1997 at the latest, and it's nice being able to have a personal home page that can grow as big as you want it. The other reason is that cable modem access here is restricted at this point to the eastern side (Woodbridge, Lake Ridge, Dale City, Dumfries) of Prince William County, and to some test sites inside the City of Manassas. GTE does say DSL is available here, but it seemed pricey the last time I looked. I'll have to look again. -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet and WTnet)| | lcremean@tidalwave.net| http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 14:20:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28415 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:20:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28407 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:20:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id RAA01120; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:13:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220171048.00c0a6e0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:11:46 -0500 To: lcremean@tidalwave.net, "Gary T. Corcoran" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981220170945.B6616@tidalwave.net> References: <367D6BFD.EFE5BDE9@home.com> <4.1.19981220154331.00abe360@genesis.ispace.com> <367D6BFD.EFE5BDE9@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:09 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Lee Cremeans wrote: >Stuff like this is one of the reasons I plan to stick with good old 33.6k >analog access...I've been running servers off this machine since mid-1997 at >the latest, and it's nice being able to have a personal home page that can >grow as big as you want it. The other reason is that cable modem access here >is restricted at this point to the eastern side (Woodbridge, Lake Ridge, >Dale City, Dumfries) of Prince William County, and to some test sites inside >the City of Manassas. GTE does say DSL is available here, but it seemed >pricey the last time I looked. I'll have to look again. Ah I have www.droo.orland.me.us on a 56K Frame from Alternet--->University of Maine.. That works out alright.. That's also my FreeBSD box.. runs DNS, and all that. I just don't dare dial into it because it's 6.4k/s when it's running, but it drops out a lot.. I hate the FastComm EtherFRAD they gave us. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 14:50:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01610 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:50:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01570 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:50:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id XAA17608 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:50:34 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id D84AE15F1; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:39:13 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:39:13 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Message-ID: <19981220233913.A6062@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19981220103552.00c013e0@genesis.ispace.com> <36409.914172594@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <36409.914172594@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Dec 20, 1998 at 08:49:54AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4871 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Jordan K. Hubbard: > Why is it that nobody seems to have read far enough into Brett's > posting to see that he openly admitted it was a flagrantly bogus > press release and merely satirical? Because everyone wouldn't be surprised if it were true ? :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 14:53:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01919 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:53:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01911 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:53:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id XAA17611 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:50:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 89C4815AD; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:50:19 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:50:19 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Message-ID: <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Sun, Dec 20, 1998 at 03:26:34PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4871 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Drew Baxter: > Cable internet here will be 89 bucks for 256k/128k.. That's ridiculous. I'd kill to have even that in France so be happy... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 15:00:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02572 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:00:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02566 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:00:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA17413; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:00:06 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981220155747.046ceac0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:59:33 -0700 To: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: French Internet "strike" (Was: A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale) In-Reply-To: <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:50 PM 12/20/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: >According to Drew Baxter: >> Cable internet here will be 89 bucks for 256k/128k.. That's ridiculous. > >I'd kill to have even that in France so be happy... Didn't French Internet users "strike" this week over outrageous charges for modem calls? What was the outcome? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 15:22:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04514 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:22:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.inx.de (www.inx.de [195.21.255.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA04508 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:22:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jnickelsen@acm.org) Received: by www.inx.de (Smail3.2.0.96inx) from [195.21.35.63] (195.21.35.63) with esmtp id ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:22:45 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: jn@berlin.snafu.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36409.914172594@zippy.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 10:38:58 EST." <4.1.19981220103552.00c013e0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 20:40:56 +0100 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Juergen Nickelsen Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 17:49 +0100 20.12.1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >Why is it that nobody seems to have read far enough into Brett's >posting to see that he openly admitted it was a flagrantly bogus >press release and merely satirical? I guess lots have, like me. But it's simply more fun to sit back, relax, and watch the others go ballistic than to blow the whistle. :-) Greetings, Juergen. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNn1SsvxneYZkCUPbEQLIGwCfRlkcrh7yDQkMb5zLWsxL3d3L/kgAoPNL 2T0yAi55/a8/JfnbvDMmAGgJ =HTG8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 17:14:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16348 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:14:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles155.castles.com [208.214.165.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16322 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:13:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA48100 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:11:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812210111.RAA48100@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:11:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith Subject: Re: IBM DB2 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To: undisclosed-recipients:; ------- Blind-Carbon-Copy X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai cc: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM DB2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:22:16 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:11:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith > > For those running Linux emulation and want to try IBM's DB2: > > http://www.software.ibm.com/data/db2/linux/ > > I just wondered since when these companies started to became charitable companies? I dunno about "charitable", IBM could give DB2 away and just live off shares in RAM vendors. Anyway, I'm looking at this one now; it's a real monster (and only a beta, remember), but it's documented at least an order of magnitude better than anything else I've encountered in this domain to date. If someone wants to make this one their personal mission, it looks like it's a *very* heavy shared memory consumer. Our shared memory semantics are quite possibly not up to it, so that's going to be somewhere worth studying carefully. - -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com ------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 18:36:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22780 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:36:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22775 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:36:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id VAA01656; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:35:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220213315.00c10e30@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:33:32 -0500 To: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-Reply-To: <19981220233913.A6062@keltia.freenix.fr> References: <36409.914172594@zippy.cdrom.com> <4.1.19981220103552.00c013e0@genesis.ispace.com> <36409.914172594@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:39 PM 12/20/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: >According to Jordan K. Hubbard: >> Why is it that nobody seems to have read far enough into Brett's >> posting to see that he openly admitted it was a flagrantly bogus >> press release and merely satirical? > >Because everyone wouldn't be surprised if it were true ? :-) *puts his finger on his nose*.. I think you got it. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 18:37:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22967 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:37:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22949 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:36:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id VAA01661; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:36:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:34:19 -0500 To: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-Reply-To: <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:50 PM 12/20/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: >According to Drew Baxter: >> Cable internet here will be 89 bucks for 256k/128k.. That's ridiculous. > >I'd kill to have even that in France so be happy... Do you pay per-minute charges for local calls? friend of mine when he lived in England it was like that.. I couldn't even imagine paying for my net time like that. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 19:15:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25648 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:15:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25643 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:15:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id EAA00599 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 04:15:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 8F90915B8; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:53:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:53:08 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: French Internet "strike" (Was: A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale) Message-ID: <19981221005308.A7312@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220155747.046ceac0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981220155747.046ceac0@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sun, Dec 20, 1998 at 03:59:33PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4871 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Brett Glass: > Didn't French Internet users "strike" this week over outrageous > charges for modem calls? What was the outcome? It was not a very large strike and it was mainly targeted at one ISP in particular, Wanadoo which has been build by France Telecom (FT). FT has been a monopoly for many years when it was a state-owned firm and kept on having the same policy of high price even after being privatised. Did you know that a 64 Kbps line is 500 US$ a month ? One of the problem is that the strike was aimed to get a fixed rate (like 200/300F a month) when dialing an ISP #. Problem is that it doesn't help people that don't use ISP (like me) and that it doesn't help firms at all (because Leased Lines prices are still high). I don't think the strike had ay impact whatsoever (OK, some newspapers talked about it) and I don't see things moving here. Cable modem for instance was announced in '95 (!) and only now being installed after many blocking attempts from FT. Even then, they have a meager quota of 125 MB/mo for outgoing traffic (counting everything including DNS traffic!), and that make having servers nearly impossible. They only want to make people users/consumers, not part of the Internet. That's the weight of the Minitel we're bearing :-( -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 19:42:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27945 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:42:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27936 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:42:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA19318; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 20:41:58 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981220203743.04583160@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 20:38:44 -0700 To: Drew Baxter , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> References: <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:34 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >Do you pay per-minute charges for local calls? friend of mine when he lived >in England it was like that.. I couldn't even imagine paying for my net >time like that. In England, they have a SPECIAL AREA CODE with a high per-minute rate for nationwide services such as CompuServe. And there's NO flat rate, anywhere. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 19:59:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29297 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:59:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29292 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA26625; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:28:28 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id OAA68003; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:28:28 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981221142828.W24125@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:28:28 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , Drew Baxter , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Phone rates (was: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8)) References: <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220203743.04583160@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981220203743.04583160@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sun, Dec 20, 1998 at 08:38:44PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 20 December 1998 at 20:38:44 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 09:34 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > >> Do you pay per-minute charges for local calls? friend of mine when he lived >> in England it was like that.. I couldn't even imagine paying for my net >> time like that. > > In England, they have a SPECIAL AREA CODE with a high per-minute rate for > nationwide services such as CompuServe. And there's NO flat rate, anywhere. Now consider that the British rates are relatively low in Europe, and you'll understand how bad the situation is over there. When I returned to Australia from Germany, my network bills dropped by over 90%, though I now have a full-time connect and about 10 times as much traffic. Here a phone call costs about $0.18 regardless of duration, and a MB of Internet trafffic costs about $0.13. In Germany, I was paying about $0.40 per minute for the phone and $6 per megabyte. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 20:41:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02213 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 20:41:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02208 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 20:41:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@mediaone.net) Received: from mediaone.net (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA12927 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 20:41:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <367DD240.B2EC8077@mediaone.net> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 20:44:49 -0800 From: Joey Garcia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) References: <199812202017.MAA46249@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Amancio Hasty wrote: > Got to admit it is weird to see snow/hail in Sunnyvale and strange > that NY doesn't have any snow. > > Cheers, > Amancio > All this talk about the weather is making miss how it was a couple of days ago. It was like 80 degrees, and not it's raining. That like sucks!! :( -- =============================================== Joseph Garcia gummibear@mediaone.net Downey, CA =============================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 21:06:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04211 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:06:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (ip55224.transbay.net [209.133.55.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04206 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:06:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06182; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:06:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19981220210626.B6129@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:06:26 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Drew Baxter Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <4.1.19981220103552.00c013e0@genesis.ispace.com> <36409.914172594@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <36409.914172594@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Dec 20, 1998 at 08:49:54AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Dec 20, 1998 at 08:49:54AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > This is a classic demonstration of Microsoft yet again buying into a market > > in which they do not belong. SOOO how many users does Microsoft Network > > have? Noone cares, America Online bought out that market ages ago. > > Why is it that nobody seems to have read far enough into Brett's > posting to see that he openly admitted it was a flagrantly bogus > press release and merely satirical? Brett's post exceeds the attention span of a good many readers. TV is the opiate of the masses. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 21:45:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08163 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:45:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08158 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:45:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: from outpost.co.nz (d1-u9.palm.clear.net.nz [203.97.52.9]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id SAA25356; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:45:21 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199812210545.SAA25356@fep1-orange.clear.net.nz> Received: (qmail 4312 invoked from network); 21 Dec 1998 04:06:05 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.acme.gen.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by evil-smelling-bugger.acme.gen.nz with SMTP; 21 Dec 1998 04:06:05 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:06:00 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: IP Connections - the US has it very, very good. Reply-to: crh@outpost.co.nz In-reply-to: <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> References: <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Drew Baxter wrote: > Do you pay per-minute charges for local calls? friend of mine when > he lived in England it was like that.. I couldn't even imagine > paying for my net time like that. Business lines here in NZ do - it works out to around NZ$2.50 per hour just for the local call charges. We use one currently for our dialup IP access. A local ISP is now offering IDSL lines (128k) for around NZ$200 per month, but that's only for the first 100MB, after that it's NZ$1.20 per meg or thereabouts. Unfortunately, the reality for NZ is that's a stupendously good deal - about as good as it gets. -- C. -- Craig Harding Head of Postproduction, Outpost Digital Media Ltd "I don't know about God, I just think we're handmade" - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 22:39:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12436 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:39:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12431 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:39:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA51801; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:38:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812210638.WAA51801@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Drew Baxter , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:06:26 PST." <19981220210626.B6129@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:38:39 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Sun, Dec 20, 1998 at 08:49:54AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > This is a classic demonstration of Microsoft yet again buying into a market > > > in which they do not belong. SOOO how many users does Microsoft Network > > > have? Noone cares, America Online bought out that market ages ago. > > > > Why is it that nobody seems to have read far enough into Brett's > > posting to see that he openly admitted it was a flagrantly bogus > > press release and merely satirical? > > Brett's post exceeds the attention span of a good many readers. TV is the > opiate of the masses. I guess the modern parents are not reading enough bed times stories to their children 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 22:56:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13739 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:56:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13734 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:56:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA20688; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:56:37 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981220234034.06bac090@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:56:02 -0700 To: Amancio Hasty , jgrosch@mooseriver.com From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Drew Baxter , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812210638.WAA51801@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:38 PM 12/20/98 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: >I guess the modern parents are not reading enough bed times stories to >their children 8) Maybe not -- or folks aren't reading enough corporate press releases. In order to look realistic, a corporate press release must be long-winded, include quotes from executives, and be at least a page long. The quote from Sears' CEO, is accurate, by the way; it's straight from their corporate report. The Microsoft quotes are satirical, but are (ironically) VERY close to things that Microsoft execs have said. That's part of the fun of these parodies. You start off looking absolutely legit, with REAL QUOTES from the people who are supposedly involved. You then try to engender a VERY gradual, creeping suspicion that something isn't right. When readers see the remark about Gates wanting a royalty from every grocery order, they're supposed to think, "Yeah, that's in character, but I'm surprised he's admitting it." When they get to the bit about your fridge tattling on your diet to your insurance company, they're probably thinking, "That's outrageous, but it's typical of what Microsoft's internal memos reveal about its power-hungry, unscrupulous executives." The next paragraph goes farther over the top, and the one after that goes farther still. Somewhere along the way, the reader is supposed to smell a rat. At least that's the way I *try* to write these things. The big problem is that there are always a few people who swallow the first paragraph hook, line, and sinker and don't read farther. My April Fool's Day message claiming that the EFF had agreed to censorship of the Internet engendered some angry flames from people who didn't read it all the way through. And that was even though the dateline said UPI (a dead giveaway). --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 23:13:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15341 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:13:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA15332 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:13:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA52009; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:12:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812210712.XAA52009@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Drew Baxter , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:56:02 MST." <4.1.19981220234034.06bac090@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:12:14 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think I read your article well and it doesn't surprise me if Microsoft tries to make the jump to acquire a company such as Sears . Why not? The old days electronic shopping was catalog shopping and it does not take a a lot of imagination that if you want to setup shop on the internet you have to have something to sell. I don't think that Microsoft is in the business of selling other companies products including the computer. Microsoft Mouse, Microsoft keyboard, Microsoft TV/computer, Microsoft / NBC, Microsoft Phone and the little side issue they own the desktop or should I say sales entry point 8) It would be nice if Microsoft forgets about trying to sell a computer althought I do suspect that they are selling a reference Windows CE computer .... Amancio > At 10:38 PM 12/20/98 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > >I guess the modern parents are not reading enough bed times stories to > >their children 8) > > Maybe not -- or folks aren't reading enough corporate press releases. > In order to look realistic, a corporate press release must be long-winded, > include quotes from executives, and be at least a page long. The > quote from Sears' CEO, is accurate, by the way; it's straight from > their corporate report. The Microsoft quotes are satirical, but > are (ironically) VERY close to things that Microsoft execs have > said. > > That's part of the fun of these parodies. You start off looking absolutely > legit, with REAL QUOTES from the people who are supposedly involved. You > then try to engender a VERY gradual, creeping suspicion that something isn't > right. > > When readers see the remark about Gates wanting a royalty from every > grocery order, they're supposed to think, "Yeah, that's in character, but > I'm surprised he's admitting it." When they get to the bit about your fridge > tattling on your diet to your insurance company, they're probably thinking, > "That's outrageous, but it's typical of what Microsoft's internal memos > reveal about its power-hungry, unscrupulous executives." The next paragraph > goes farther over the top, and the one after that goes farther still. > Somewhere along the way, the reader is supposed to smell a rat. > > At least that's the way I *try* to write these things. > > The big problem is that there are always a few people who swallow the first > paragraph hook, line, and sinker and don't read farther. My April Fool's > Day message claiming that the EFF had agreed to censorship of the Internet > engendered some angry flames from people who didn't read it all the > way through. > > And that was even though the dateline said UPI (a dead giveaway). > > --Brett > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 20 23:48:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18567 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:48:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA18562 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:48:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id IAA05820 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:48:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 557F21513; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:19:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:19:44 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Message-ID: <19981221081944.C9745@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Sun, Dec 20, 1998 at 09:34:19PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4871 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Drew Baxter: > Do you pay per-minute charges for local calls? Oh yes. It is currently 0.8 FF/3 minutes. > friend of mine when he lived > in England it was like that.. I couldn't even imagine paying for my net > time like that. The main problem is that it makes 24h/day connections virtually impossible to get. We have no choice :-( -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 00:32:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22451 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:32:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-22.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22446 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:32:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 0zs0lE-0001Tw-00; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:32:16 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA01713; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:31:38 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02257; Mon, 21 Dec 98 08:31:36 GMT Message-Id: <367E0725.4749B7CB@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:30:29 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter Cc: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Drew Baxter wrote: > > At 11:50 PM 12/20/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > >According to Drew Baxter: > >> Cable internet here will be 89 bucks for 256k/128k.. That's ridiculous. > > > >I'd kill to have even that in France so be happy... > > Do you pay per-minute charges for local calls? friend of mine when he lived > in England it was like that.. I couldn't even imagine paying for my net > time like that. > Net access in England?, tell me about it. We still pay per minute, 1pence (~1.6c US) after 6pm and at weekends and 2.5pence (~4c US) at other times. Sounds like France has the same problems we have. Like France Telecom, British Telecom used to be state-owned but was then privatized, and at the same time the telephone business was de-regulated. We started to get a Cable TV network installed country-wide which also provides telephone services that promised cheap phone access and fast 'net connections. However it hasn't taken off to the extent that was expected so it's still only major urban areas that have any real service established. Part of the problem seems to be that it is mainly US & Canadian companies that are running it and seem to be using the N. American model for services, which just doesn't seem to work here, partly because we already pay ~100UKP (~$160US) per year for 5 normal TV stations :-(. The nett (no pun intended) result is that there is still no real national alternative to BT which means they are still effectively a monopoly. They make so much profit that the Government tells them to cut prices and rather than reduce the overall prices they come up with schemes which you have to join that gives you discounts on your 10 favourite numbers, which actually is better as those who join save more than if the standard rates were dropped. This gets the price as low(?) as 0.6pence per minute after 6pm and at weekend. We do have ISDN but that costs an arm and a leg, even the new Home Highway that BT has just brought out which allows ISDN over normal twisted pair phone lines. So, when I read US citizens complaining about $89 for a 256k/128k service it makes me laugh (well it makes me cry really :-) ). Don't complain, you guys have got it good. > --- > Drew "Droobie" Baxter > Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) > OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA > http://www.droo.orland.me.us > > PGP ID: 409A1F7D > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath, Avon, England. Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 00:39:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA23084 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:39:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA23076 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:39:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 0zs0rp-0001qv-00; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:39:07 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA01741; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:38:17 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02314; Mon, 21 Dec 98 08:38:14 GMT Message-Id: <367E08B3.DF798154@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:37:07 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Drew Baxter , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) References: <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220203743.04583160@mail.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 09:34 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > > >Do you pay per-minute charges for local calls? friend of mine when he lived > >in England it was like that.. I couldn't even imagine paying for my net > >time like that. > > In England, they have a SPECIAL AREA CODE with a high per-minute rate for > nationwide services such as CompuServe. And there's NO flat rate, anywhere. > Actually, we also have a special area code (0845) with a _low_ (a relative term) per-minute rate that all ISP's (and CompuServe and AOL) use. The high per miunte rate is used for phone-in competitions on TV and in magazines and "chat-lines". > --Brett > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath, Avon, England. Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 01:09:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26184 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:09:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26177 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:08:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09318; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:19:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19981221201918.E8445@caamora.com.au> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:19:18 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: Drew Baxter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Mail-Followup-To: Drew Baxter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> <367E0725.4749B7CB@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <367E0725.4749B7CB@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 08:30:29AM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 08:30:29AM +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > Drew Baxter wrote: > > > > At 11:50 PM 12/20/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > >According to Drew Baxter: > > >> Cable internet here will be 89 bucks for 256k/128k.. That's ridiculous. > > > > > >I'd kill to have even that in France so be happy... > > > > Do you pay per-minute charges for local calls? friend of mine when he lived > > in England it was like that.. I couldn't even imagine paying for my net > > time like that. > > > > Net access in England?, tell me about it. We still pay per minute, > 1pence (~1.6c US) after 6pm and at weekends and 2.5pence (~4c US) at > other times. Sounds like France has the same problems we have. Like > France Telecom, British Telecom used to be state-owned but was then > privatized, and at the same time the telephone business was > de-regulated. We started to get a Cable TV network installed > country-wide which also provides telephone services that promised > cheap phone access and fast 'net connections. > > However it hasn't taken off to the extent that was expected so it's > still only major urban areas that have any real service established. > Part of the problem seems to be that it is mainly US & Canadian > companies that are running it and seem to be using the N. American > model for services, which just doesn't seem to work here, partly > because we already pay ~100UKP (~$160US) per year for 5 normal TV > stations :-(. back in teh seventies we gave up licencing tv, i remember when tv was first started her in australia .. i grew up without tv. > The nett (no pun intended) result is that there is still no real > national alternative to BT which means they are still effectively a > monopoly. They make so much profit that the Government tells them to > cut prices and rather than reduce the overall prices they come up with > schemes which you have to join that gives you discounts on your 10 > favourite numbers, which actually is better as those who join save > more than if the standard rates were dropped. we have mich the same problem here but for diferent technical reasons. also our govt is too greedy and won't really let go inspite of teh privatisng is is talking about publically. > This gets the price as low(?) as 0.6pence per minute after 6pm and at > weekend. We do have ISDN but that costs an arm and a leg, even the new > Home Highway that BT has just brought out which allows ISDN over > normal twisted pair phone lines. we have had out telecoms idea of 'isdn', well it worked not to bad if you could afford it. but recetnly australia has also joined teh european standards of isdn and we are starting to build infra structure to handle teh isdn traffic. > > So, when I read US citizens complaining about $89 for a 256k/128k > service it makes me laugh (well it makes me cry really :-) ). Don't > complain, you guys have got it good. same here .. las time i looked, isdn cost $AUD500-$AUD900 per month, fro 64k and some 35 aust cents per 1 million chr and i forget what teh cents per minute for teh connection were. also if yoir avarage traffic is less than 25 percent its the above costs, but if yu go to over 70 percent saturation cost sore (pun intended) to about $AUD1k5 per month .. then thier is teh traffic charges and the timed call fees. yup, as poor as out americam freinds think thier services are, tehy are one hell of a lot better than anywhere else int eh world, i've heard stories bout how good, cheap, tcp/ip is in singapore but that could be just for teh companies (forginers) in teh technology parks .. well tehy get those benefits at teh expence of teh local peoples anyway .. sort of i suppose. i only know what its like here and as i cant aford isdn i stoped looking, so things could be a bit better but not by much. regards and best wishes for christmass and new year. jonathan -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 01:11:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26482 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:11:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26477 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:11:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garycor@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.3.185.85]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.0 201-221-107) with ESMTP id <19981221091141.RKOY23562.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@home.com>; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:11:41 -0800 Message-ID: <367E10FD.A1F644FA@home.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 04:12:29 -0500 From: "Gary T. Corcoran" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> <367E0725.4749B7CB@uk.radan.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens wrote: > So, when I read US citizens complaining about $89 for a 256k/128k > service it makes me laugh (well it makes me cry really :-) ). Don't > complain, you guys have got it good. Then I better not tell you that I get cable modem service with an approximate max of 1.4Mbps downstream (fastest I've seen in the wee hours of the morning) for US $40/month (as a cable TV customer, $50/month otherwise). Oops... :-) Yes, those few (about 2 or 3 hundred thousand so far) of us with cable modems have it *really* good in the U.S. I'm spoiled... :-) Gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 02:49:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA06282 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 02:49:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA06277 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 02:49:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 0zs2tY-0000Ni-00; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:49:01 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA02271; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:48:27 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06024; Mon, 21 Dec 98 10:48:24 GMT Message-Id: <367E2735.E62A6558@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:47:17 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: jonathan michaels Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> <367E0725.4749B7CB@uk.radan.com> <19981221201918.E8445@caamora.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org jonathan michaels wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 08:30:29AM +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > Drew Baxter wrote: > > > > > > At 11:50 PM 12/20/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > > >According to Drew Baxter: > > > >> Cable internet here will be 89 bucks for 256k/128k.. That's ridiculous. > > > > > > > >I'd kill to have even that in France so be happy... > > > > > > Do you pay per-minute charges for local calls? friend of mine when he lived > > > in England it was like that.. I couldn't even imagine paying for my net > > > time like that. > > > > > > > Net access in England?, tell me about it. We still pay per minute, > > 1pence (~1.6c US) after 6pm and at weekends and 2.5pence (~4c US) at > > other times. Sounds like France has the same problems we have. Like > > France Telecom, British Telecom used to be state-owned but was then > > privatized, and at the same time the telephone business was > > de-regulated. We started to get a Cable TV network installed > > country-wide which also provides telephone services that promised > > cheap phone access and fast 'net connections. > > > > However it hasn't taken off to the extent that was expected so it's > > still only major urban areas that have any real service established. > > Part of the problem seems to be that it is mainly US & Canadian > > companies that are running it and seem to be using the N. American > > model for services, which just doesn't seem to work here, partly > > because we already pay ~100UKP (~$160US) per year for 5 normal TV > > stations :-(. > > back in teh seventies we gave up licencing tv, i remember when tv was first > started her in australia .. i grew up without tv. > I remember when it was only on for a few hours a day. I think perhaps we should return to that, given the crap they put on these days. > > The nett (no pun intended) result is that there is still no real > > national alternative to BT which means they are still effectively a > > monopoly. They make so much profit that the Government tells them to > > cut prices and rather than reduce the overall prices they come up with > > schemes which you have to join that gives you discounts on your 10 > > favourite numbers, which actually is better as those who join save > > more than if the standard rates were dropped. > > we have mich the same problem here but for diferent technical reasons. also > our govt is too greedy and won't really let go inspite of teh privatisng is is > talking about publically. > I think that's the root of the problem. Most countries, except the US, appear to have, or had, state-owned telphone companies which were obviously monopolies so, without competition, could charge what they liked. When these become privatized they don't want to give up the profits, which is easy if there's noreal competition. AFAIK, the US telephone system has always been privately owned and has therefore had competition from day one. > > This gets the price as low(?) as 0.6pence per minute after 6pm and at > > weekend. We do have ISDN but that costs an arm and a leg, even the new > > Home Highway that BT has just brought out which allows ISDN over > > normal twisted pair phone lines. > > we have had out telecoms idea of 'isdn', well it worked not to bad if you > could afford it. but recetnly australia has also joined teh european standards > of isdn and we are starting to build infra structure to handle teh isdn > traffic. > > > > > So, when I read US citizens complaining about $89 for a 256k/128k > > service it makes me laugh (well it makes me cry really :-) ). Don't > > complain, you guys have got it good. > > same here .. las time i looked, isdn cost $AUD500-$AUD900 per month, fro 64k > and some 35 aust cents per 1 million chr and i forget what teh cents per > minute for teh connection were. also if yoir avarage traffic is less than 25 > percent its the above costs, but if yu go to over 70 percent saturation cost > sore (pun intended) to about $AUD1k5 per month .. then thier is teh traffic > charges and the timed call fees. > Ouch!. I think that is even more expensive than BT. > yup, as poor as out americam freinds think thier services are, tehy are one > hell of a lot better than anywhere else int eh world, We were hoping that the advent of cable TV/phones would give us American style costs. Just a pity it doesn't seem to be working out :-( > i've heard stories bout > how good, cheap, tcp/ip is in singapore but that could be just for teh > companies (forginers) in teh technology parks .. well tehy get those benefits > at teh expence of teh local peoples anyway .. sort of i suppose. i only know > what its like here and as i cant aford isdn i stoped looking, so things could > be a bit better but not by much. > > regards and best wishes for christmass and new year. > The same to you. > jonathan > > -- > =============================================================================== > Jonathan Michaels > PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia > =========================================================== > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath, Avon, England. Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 04:28:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA16882 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 04:28:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA16877 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 04:28:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (lunar.sdi.agate.net [204.117.9.88]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id HAA03090; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:27:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981221072229.009b1ad0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:25:07 -0500 To: "Gary T. Corcoran" , Mark Ovens From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <367E10FD.A1F644FA@home.com> References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> <367E0725.4749B7CB@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:12 AM 12/21/98 -0500, Gary T. Corcoran wrote: >Mark Ovens wrote: > >> So, when I read US citizens complaining about $89 for a 256k/128k >> service it makes me laugh (well it makes me cry really :-) ). Don't >> complain, you guys have got it good. > >Then I better not tell you that I get cable modem service with an >approximate max of 1.4Mbps downstream (fastest I've seen in the wee >hours of the morning) for US $40/month (as a cable TV customer, $50/month >otherwise). Oops... :-) Yes, those few (about 2 or 3 hundred thousand >so far) of us with cable modems have it *really* good in the U.S. >I'm spoiled... :-) > >Gary Everything's relative though, the web content will increase in size, the CD size has already increased (courtesy of DVD). Cable modems are particularly great for software piracy, to the point that when my friend had his installed he said "You're aware you're fueling the software piracy market with these right?" The guy says "Yeah, I know :-)".. Unfortunately 60% of Cable modem bandwidth is some sort of server or illegal download material.. Macromedia will just come out with a plugin to use more bandwidth for better content, Real Networks already has technology that CAN do that. My question is... What's next? another form of DSL? --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 05:27:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22627 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 05:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DegNet.de (degnet.de [194.95.214.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA22615 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 05:27:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malte.lance@gmx.net) Received: from neuron.webmore.prv (GateWay [192.168.168.1]) by DegNet.de (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA06345; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:26:39 +0100 Received: from neuron.webmore.prv (neuron.webmore.prv "Malte Lance") by neuron.webmore.prv (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02961; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:18:02 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199812211318.OAA02961@neuron.webmore.prv> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:18:00 +0100 (CET) From: Malte Lance Reply-To: malte.lance@gmx.net Subject: Re: Phone rates (was: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, C alifornia 8)) To: grog@lemis.com cc: brett@lariat.org, netmonger@genesis.ispace.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981221142828.W24125@freebie.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 21 Dec, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sunday, 20 December 1998 at 20:38:44 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >> At 09:34 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >> >>> Do you pay per-minute charges for local calls? friend of mine when he lived >>> in England it was like that.. I couldn't even imagine paying for my net >>> time like that. >> >> In England, they have a SPECIAL AREA CODE with a high per-minute rate for >> nationwide services such as CompuServe. And there's NO flat rate, anywhere. > > Now consider that the British rates are relatively low in Europe, and > you'll understand how bad the situation is over there. When I > returned to Australia from Germany, my network bills dropped by over > 90%, though I now have a full-time connect and about 10 times as much > traffic. Here a phone call costs about $0.18 regardless of duration, > and a MB of Internet trafffic costs about $0.13. In Germany, I was > paying about $0.40 per minute for the phone and $6 per megabyte. > Man ... stop that !!! Do NOT hold up the unbeautified reality in front of my eyes. This "Deutsche Telekom"-bastards are sucking all the blood out of me. Malte. > Greg -- Malte Lance. --- composed with TkRat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 05:28:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22834 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 05:28:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.inx.de (www.inx.de [195.21.255.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA22712 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 05:28:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jnickelsen@acm.org) Received: by www.inx.de (Smail3.2.0.96inx) from [195.21.31.104] (195.21.31.104) with esmtp id ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:28:39 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: jn@berlin.snafu.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <367E0725.4749B7CB@uk.radan.com> References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:42:34 +0100 To: Mark Ovens From: Juergen Nickelsen Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Cc: Drew Baxter , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 9:30 +0100 21.12.1998, Mark Ovens wrote on freebsd-chat: >So, when I read US citizens complaining about $89 for a 256k/128k >service it makes me laugh (well it makes me cry really :-) ). Don't >complain, you guys have got it good. Mark, what you write about the UK is basically true for Germany, only our rates are higher. Like BT, the "Deutsche Telekom" was a monopoly until not long ago and still effectively is for local calls. (AFAIK only in Cologne there is an alternative provider that serves also private homes. Colt Telecom provides also local services, but only for major customers.) The Telekom's rates range from 0.08 DEM (about 0.05 US$) per minute in the daytime down to 0.04 DEM per minute during the night. A 64 kbps line costs 250 DEM (156 US$) if both ends are connected to the same local exchange. If not, the rate is 385 DEM (240 US$) plus 22.50 DEM (14 US$) per kilometer for the first 15 km, less at larger distances. A 128 kbps line costs about three times as much. (Actually this is an ISDN line with two B channels at 64 kbps and one D channel with 16 kbps.) This is, of course, just the line, without Internet connectivity. Well, yes, you guys have it good -- and that includes the UK. :-/ Greetings, Juergen. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNn4mEPxneYZkCUPbEQLu1wCg9zG7/LiH/hH4ExRGQkeV+4lV/uQAoNwM chvI11dHAxLjm7k7ciIsRnsX =5Kue -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 05:29:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22905 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 05:29:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.inx.de (www.inx.de [195.21.255.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA22900 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 05:29:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jnickelsen@acm.org) Received: by www.inx.de (Smail3.2.0.96inx) from [195.21.31.104] (195.21.31.104) with esmtp id ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:28:33 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: jn@berlin.snafu.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981220234034.06bac090@mail.lariat.org> References: <199812210638.WAA51801@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:23:31 +0100 To: Brett Glass From: Juergen Nickelsen Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 7:56 +0100 21.12.1998, Brett Glass wrote on freebsd-chat: >My April Fool's Day message claiming that the EFF had agreed to >censorship of the Internet engendered some angry flames from people >who didn't read it all the way through. Hello Brett, Could you (re?)post that to -chat? After the Microsoft/Sears article I am quite curious. (Or just mail it to me if you think the list should not be bothered?) Greetings, Juergen. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNn4hifxneYZkCUPbEQKM5wCbBjo5I9u3hte7CiSphTeX4p7TZ0YAn3OO QXCJ8HtDAtH762Muy8LfRVkO =lK8t -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 05:58:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA25760 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 05:58:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA25749 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 05:58:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 0zs5qu-0002Lg-00; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:58:29 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA02965; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:57:59 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12299; Mon, 21 Dec 98 13:57:57 GMT Message-Id: <367E53A1.66F44F8@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:56:49 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Nickelsen Cc: Drew Baxter , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Juergen Nickelsen wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > At 9:30 +0100 21.12.1998, Mark Ovens wrote on freebsd-chat: > > >So, when I read US citizens complaining about $89 for a 256k/128k > >service it makes me laugh (well it makes me cry really :-) ). Don't > >complain, you guys have got it good. > > Mark, > > what you write about the UK is basically true for Germany, only our > rates are higher. Like BT, the "Deutsche Telekom" was a monopoly until > not long ago and still effectively is for local calls. (AFAIK only in > Cologne there is an alternative provider that serves also private > homes. Colt Telecom provides also local services, but only for major > customers.) > > The Telekom's rates range from 0.08 DEM (about 0.05 US$) per minute in > the daytime down to 0.04 DEM per minute during the night. > > A 64 kbps line costs 250 DEM (156 US$) if both ends are connected to > the same local exchange. If not, the rate is 385 DEM (240 US$) plus > 22.50 DEM (14 US$) per kilometer for the first 15 km, less at larger > distances. A 128 kbps line costs about three times as much. (Actually > this is an ISDN line with two B channels at 64 kbps and one D channel > with 16 kbps.) This is, of course, just the line, without Internet > connectivity. > I think we get ripped off for just about everything in Europe (when compared to the States). Air fares are another example. The last (only) time I went to the States (OK it was 18 years ago), your neck of the woods Drew - New England, for the cost of my return flight UK-US-UK I could purchase a 7 day, unlimited travel air ticket for the whole US mainland and for most things, e.g. petrol, beer, tobacco, clothes etc, what cost a Pound in England cost a Dollar in the US (the exchange rate was ~$2.40/UKP, thats 60% cheaper!). I'll bet things are still the same, although we're down to ~$1.60/UKP. No wonder Americans are rich ;-). I guess this is a result of the States being a much more consumer oriented society, they won't tolerate being ripped off, so companies that try will go bust. Mind you, I can't see why telcoms need to be so expensive in Europe. After all, the distances within any European country are considerably less than in the States so the cost of providing the infrastructure should be considerably less too. No doubt greedy Governments are partly to blame with high taxes, VAT (sales tax) is 17.5% in the UK. > Well, yes, you guys have it good -- and that includes the UK. :-/ > What's the saying? "No matter how badly you think you are done to, there's always someone worse off than yourself". Not that that is any consolation. > Greetings, Juergen. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use > > iQA/AwUBNn4mEPxneYZkCUPbEQLu1wCg9zG7/LiH/hH4ExRGQkeV+4lV/uQAoNwM > chvI11dHAxLjm7k7ciIsRnsX > =5Kue > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath, Avon, England. Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 08:04:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10871 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:04:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10866 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:04:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA83360; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:03:37 -0800 (PST) To: Mark Ovens cc: Juergen Nickelsen , Drew Baxter , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:56:49 GMT." <367E53A1.66F44F8@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:03:36 -0800 Message-ID: <83356.914256216@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think we get ripped off for just about everything in Europe (when Speaking as a former occupant of Europe, I can only agree. :) Let's not even get into the differences in tax rates... Sometimes I'm amazed that there are _any_ rich people in Europe, or if not amazed then certainly understanding why there's so much money in Switzerland. With taxes as high as 75% in some of the Nordic countries, I'd hide my money too! :) > clothes etc, what cost a Pound in England cost a Dollar in the US (the > exchange rate was ~$2.40/UKP, thats 60% cheaper!). I'll bet things are > still the same, although we're down to ~$1.60/UKP. No wonder Americans Seen just yesterday: Round-trip from San Francisco to London, $277 USD. Gack! At that price, it's almost worth going for just a couple of days. > Mind you, I can't see why telcoms need to be so expensive in Europe. > After all, the distances within any European country are considerably > less than in the States so the cost of providing the infrastructure > should be considerably less too. No doubt greedy Governments are > partly to blame with high taxes, VAT (sales tax) is 17.5% in the UK. That and a total lack of competition. With any market based economy, things are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them, there being no such thing as "intrinsic value" anymore, really. Therefore when there are two or more providers of a reasource, they play off one another and people's willingness to pay without negotiation first goes down, driving the prices down in turn. It's not like the businessmen in the U.S. are more altruistic or anything, there are simply a lot more of them competing for those scarce customer dollars! :) What really burns me up is that Europe, with its far more advantageous population density, hasn't leveraged this advantage properly. When your entire country is the size of one small eastern U.S. state, you're able to do a lot of really nifty things that you just can't do when your population is over 250 million people. You can have smaller, more effective schools and closer ties with industry for training students in real-life situations (what the Germans call a student's "prakticum", I believe) and you can wire up the local population for a much cheaper cost per head in terms of doing things like wireless roaming networks (what Metrocom calls "Ricochet" service here the U.S.). In other words, the Europeans have always had the option of creating a far more skilled and well educated information society than they have and it's frankly kind of criminal that they appear to be blowing the opportunity. Even the much-vaunted European school system standards have decayed significantly from their former heights, and I know I'm generalizing wildly here now but I'm thinking mostly of the UK/Germany/France here - perhaps the nordic countries have done better over the last 2 decades, I just don't know. What I do know is that many European countries have been famous for centuries for having some of the best educated populations and for fostering some of the greatest periods of intellectual advancement (like the Rennaisance) in human history. Now that we've reached the information age, it looks like just about everyone except for perhaps Finland has completely dropped the ball. What's going on over there, guys? You should have wireless, unmetered usage, IP networks covering every major city and federal programs where every able-bodied citizen over 10 years old gets a state sponsored laptop and a wireless modem. Villages of 40 people or more should qualify for free E1 service or even more if some percentage of the population is actively engaged in software development. Get Off Your Butts, you EC slackers! :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 08:36:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14821 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:32:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14816 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:32:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA22479; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:31:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA18358; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:31:40 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:31:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199812211631.JAA18358@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: "j3" , "Irving Popovetsky" , "Mike Smith" , "The Hermit Hacker" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quad motherboards? In-Reply-To: <42404.914193003@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <003801be2c68$6b9e25e0$bee3fea9@j3> <42404.914193003@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ moved to -chat ] Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >>If you buy the chassis as well as the boardset from Intel, you get a > >>pile of nice ducting and lots of fans with it. The AD450NX system here > >>has six of them, with onboard temperature sensing feeding back into a > >>speed controller. (There are 3 more fans cooling the I/O board on the > >>other side.) > >> > >Bah! That's nothing! I have 11 fans on my dual pII 300 server! ;) > > > >You can never have too many fans.... > > I'm sure John Lennon disagrees... Boo, hiss.... Hopefully these bad jokes are only for this year, since you can start with better ones next year. ;) ;) ;) ;) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 09:17:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA21005 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:17:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20988 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:17:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA24805; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:17:25 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221101242.06cd8f10@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:14:19 -0700 To: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-Reply-To: <19981221081944.C9745@keltia.freenix.fr> References: <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:19 AM 12/21/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: >The main problem is that it makes 24h/day connections virtually impossible >to get. We have no choice :-( I sympathize. I'd be glad to rent you cheap Web server space if you need it.... Even give you some. As for connectivity for browsing: What about satellite? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 09:19:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA21358 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:19:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA21352 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:19:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA58154 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:18:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812211718.JAA58154@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Linux closing the gap on Windows NT 8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:18:39 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Shipped units is less than actually install units ! http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2177618,00.html Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 09:41:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24649 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:41:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles130.castles.com [208.214.165.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24622; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:40:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02366; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:38:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812211738.JAA02366@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:38:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith Subject: Re: IBM DB2 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To: undisclosed-recipients:; ------- Blind-Carbon-Copy X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai cc: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM DB2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:22:16 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:38:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith > Hi, > > For those running Linux emulation and want to try IBM's DB2: > > http://www.software.ibm.com/data/db2/linux/ Ok. I wasted Sunday on this sucker (and to think I could have cleaned the bathroom instead...). Their target with this build is clearly RedHat 5.2. We're not there yet in terms of environment support. To play with it you will need: - a working /compat/linux/bin/rpm - libraries from RedHat 5.2, installed using rpm - /compat/linux/bin/sh, installed using rpm - /compat/linux/bin/ksh, installed using rpm and that's as far as I've gotten. We may also have problems with its shared-memory requirements. The documentation for this beast is pretty good; the installation worksheets and general degree of assurance and handholding is fairly confidence-inspiring, as is the fact that no matter how irritating, they've actually taken the packaging requirements of the platform seriously. - -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com ------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 09:45:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24955 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:45:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24950 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:45:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA25119; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:45:11 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221104151.03df1690@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:44:19 -0700 To: Mark Ovens From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Cc: Drew Baxter , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <367E08B3.DF798154@uk.radan.com> References: <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220203743.04583160@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:37 AM 12/21/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >Actually, we also have a special area code (0845) with a _low_ (a >relative term) per-minute rate that all ISP's (and CompuServe and AOL) >use. Low for you; outrageous for the US. When I was in the UK this summer, I paid an average of 18p a unit from hotel rooms. Just checking e-mail, when I could do it, cost a bundle. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 09:46:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24685 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:41:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24680 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:41:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA25068; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:41:20 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221103914.06bec740@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:40:39 -0700 To: Amancio Hasty , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Linux closing the gap on Windows NT 8) In-Reply-To: <199812211718.JAA58154@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yeah, but that article also displayed the author's ignorance: He said BSDI was open source. Can we trust his stats? --Brett At 09:18 AM 12/21/98 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > >Shipped units is less than actually install units ! > >http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2177618,00.html > > > Cheers, > Amancio > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 09:47:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25263 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:47:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25216 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:47:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA58477; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:46:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812211746.JAA58477@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux closing the gap on Windows NT 8) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:40:39 MST." <4.1.19981221103914.06bec740@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:46:14 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It is excellent propaganda for PC Unix systems and I too stopped and ponder on BSDI being open source however I can see that for the intended audience BSDI can constitute Open Source compare to Microsoft 8) Cheers, Amancio > Yeah, but that article also displayed the author's ignorance: > He said BSDI was open source. Can we trust his stats? > > --Brett > > At 09:18 AM 12/21/98 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > >Shipped units is less than actually install units ! > > > >http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2177618,00.html > > > > > > Cheers, > > Amancio > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 10:00:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27075 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:00:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27069 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:00:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA25284; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:00:36 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221105103.06cbe9b0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:00:00 -0700 To: Juergen Nickelsen From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981220234034.06bac090@mail.lariat.org> <199812210638.WAA51801@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:23 AM 12/21/98 +0100, Juergen Nickelsen wrote: >Hello Brett, > >Could you (re?)post that to -chat? After the Microsoft/Sears article I >am quite curious. (Or just mail it to me if you think the list should >not be bothered?) Here's a copy of the satirical "news item" regarding the EFF. This was put out on the Net in 1995, just after the EFF -- in a very foolish display of political ineptitude -- allowed CALEA (the FBI's pet wiretap law) -- to pass when it could have blocked it. The Communications Decency Act was then introduced, and I, for one, didn't trust the EFF not to sell the American people out again. Hence the prank posting. The posting had a number of tip-offs in the first paragraph, and was accompanied by a note instructing readers to read it ALL THE WAY THROUGH before responding. Yet, I STILL got angry flames. Here's the text, and -- remember -- it's ONLY A JOKE. ;-) --Brett --------------- **** Note: Be sure to read the following IN ITS ENTIRETY before responding. Republication and forwarding OK if attribution and full text are preserved. Washington, DC (UPI) April 1, 1995: In a remarkable turnabout, the Electronic Frontier Foundation reversed its stance on the Communications Decency Act of 1995 (S. 314), introduced by Senator James Exon (D-Purgatory) and Senator Slade Gorton (R- Perdition). This bill, now part of telecommunications reform legislation in the Senate, mandates criminal penalties for telecommunications providers or individuals who transmit material that is deemed "obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, or indecent." "Now that the language of S. 314 has been woven into vital telecommunications legislation, it is unlikely that it can be defeated," said an EFF spokesman. "The EFF is therefore supporting an amendment to the bill allowing 'indecent' material to appear on computer networks only between the hours of 10 PM and 8 AM, a restriction similar to those imposed on network television stations. "We feel that this is a fair compromise between the interests of system operators and consumers and the desires of arch- conservative legislators," said the EFF. "Under this provision, operators of online services will have ten hours each night to read all electronic mail messages, as well as the megabytes of 'network news' on their systems, and expunge any material that any citizen anywhere in the United States might consider to be indecent. Funding will be provided for a computerized reporting system that will enable system operators to turn in those who generate illicit material, such as sexually suggestive love notes or messages advocating the use of condoms. Encrypted messages will be automatically deleted, since they might hide indecent content." The EFF backed a similar compromise last year when it lent crucial support to the Digital Telephony Bill. This bill, now the law of the land, requires that all telephone conversations be quickly and undetectably tappable at any time by law enforcement personnel. The EFF supported the wiretapping bill in return for a few token privacy provisions, which may be removed by future legislation. "This so-called compromise is reprehensible," said Brett Glass, nationally-known computer columnist and privacy advocate. "Let's hope that this article remains an April Fool's Day joke, and that the EFF -- which many fear has forgotten its roots as an advocate of electronic freedom and become an 'inside-the-beltway' lobbying organization -- doesn't compromise or endanger our civil rights and personal privacy this time around." <73>  To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 10:05:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27608 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:05:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from funbox.demon.co.uk (funbox.demon.co.uk [158.152.85.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA27600 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:05:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk) From: tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk Received: by funbox.demon.co.uk (mail 1.50) id tim.367E31FE.00.1533; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:33:18 +0000 Message-ID: To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:15:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Phone rates Lines: 36 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > In England, they have a SPECIAL AREA CODE with a high per-minute > rate for nationwide services such as CompuServe. And there's NO > flat rate, anywhere. Brett, You're almost right about there being no flat rate over here, but your preceding statement is rather misleading. The 'special area code' is to enable nationwide services effectively to have a local-call rate access number from anywhere in the country. For example: I live in London, and usually access Demon (my ISP) via a London number (prefix 0171); were I to use that number from outside London, I would be charged at national call rates, which are higher. If, however, I were to use one of Demon's 0845 numbers (the 'special area code', as you put it) from anywhere in the country, I would be charged at local call rates. I used to have a second account with a different ISP, with whom I used a flat-rate number (i.e. the cost of the call was fixed, regardless of duration, or may even have been free -- I can't remember accurately), but I gave them up because technically, they sucked. Capitalism may reign supreme over on your side of the water, but British Telecom is unfortunately rather too good at sucking in the profits over here... Tim -- Tim Jackson London, England. ________________________________________________________________________ Please reply to t j @ f u n b o x . d e m o n . c o . u k To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 10:11:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28563 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:11:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28556 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:11:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA25407; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:11:34 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221111011.06c2e7b0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:10:58 -0700 To: Mark Ovens , Juergen Nickelsen From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Cc: Drew Baxter , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <367E53A1.66F44F8@uk.radan.com> References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:56 PM 12/21/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >I think we get ripped off for just about everything in Europe (when >compared to the States). Air fares are another example. The last >(only) time I went to the States (OK it was 18 years ago), your neck >of the woods Drew - New England, for the cost of my return flight >UK-US-UK I could purchase a 7 day, unlimited travel air ticket for the >whole US mainland and for most things, e.g. petrol, beer, tobacco, >clothes etc, what cost a Pound in England cost a Dollar in the US (the >exchange rate was ~$2.40/UKP, thats 60% cheaper!). I'll bet things are >still the same, although we're down to ~$1.60/UKP. No wonder Americans >are rich ;-). I don't think you could EVER get an unlimited air travel ticket. I think you mean a rail pass. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 10:17:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29257 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:17:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29252 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:17:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA25462; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:17:08 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221111410.06cbb650@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:16:32 -0700 To: tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Phone rates In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:15 AM 12/21/98 +0000, tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk wrote: >Capitalism may reign supreme over on your side of the water, but >British Telecom is unfortunately rather too good at sucking in the >profits over here... I understand that there are two others: Mercury and another. Are they undercutting BT or just going along for the ride? I do recall that some pay phones in the UK also rejected the 0800 number for my MCI international calling card. Why? The phone was owned by a company that had an exclusive deal with AT&T. They blocked calls to anyone else's 800 number. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 10:41:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02474 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:41:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02468; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:41:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:41:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812211841.KAA02468@hub.freebsd.org> From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: julian@whistle.com Cc: chat In-reply-to: (message from Julian Elischer on Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:15:20 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: visiting the bar area References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:15:20 -0800 (PST) > From: Julian Elischer > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Or do you mean TODAY? > i mean that at this moment i am in the USi data center in milpitas across from the Great Mall. beautiful sunrise over the hills this morning. but it does seem a little chilly here in sunny california ;) jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 10:44:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03082 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:44:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03054 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:43:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4000.ime.net [209.90.195.10]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id NAA03960; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:43:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981221133811.009225a0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:40:15 -0500 To: Mark Ovens From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Cc: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <367E0725.4749B7CB@uk.radan.com> References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:30 AM 12/21/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >So, when I read US citizens complaining about $89 for a 256k/128k >service it makes me laugh (well it makes me cry really :-) ). Don't >complain, you guys have got it good. Oh we also have 40 cent a minute intrastate calling, and inane things like that.. Look at where Maine is geographically, You'd say "well it's near Boston Mass".. Sure, but where am I? I'm in Eastern/Central, which is toward the point sticking out to the right of the state.. Certainly we're not charged per minute local charges (although some places in Vermont are, my Grandfather is), but we are the last to see things like Cable Internet, etc in reference to the rest of the country, and the rest of the state. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 10:45:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03171 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:45:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03159 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:45:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4000.ime.net [209.90.195.10]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id NAA03966; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:44:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981221134109.00a84bd0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:41:58 -0500 To: Brett Glass , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981221101242.06cd8f10@mail.lariat.org> References: <19981221081944.C9745@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:14 AM 12/21/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >At 08:19 AM 12/21/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > >>The main problem is that it makes 24h/day connections virtually impossible >>to get. We have no choice :-( > >I sympathize. I'd be glad to rent you cheap Web server space if you need >it.... Even give you some. As for connectivity for browsing: What about >satellite? > >--Brett Hmm I'm going to throw in that www.vsat.net is an interesting place to look for Satellite connectivity.. They do 2mb down/128K up if I recall via the VSAT technology designed by Hughes back in the 1970's.. The Boy Scout Jamboree used this technology some 2 years ago.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 12:08:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15893 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:08:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15886; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:08:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA03892; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:50:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdIS3872; Mon Dec 21 19:50:42 1998 Message-ID: <367EA67C.2781E494@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:50:20 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jgrosch@mooseriver.com Subject: Re: visiting the bay area References: <199812201010.CAA42851@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > as part of my new job, i will be in the san jose, sunnyvale, santa > > clara area from sunday night to tuesday midday. anyone want to get > > together on monday night? > > > > my email access will be sporadic at best ;( > > Probably better have put this on -chat then. I've copied a few other > random souls; sorry if you're already on -chat. > > > i will be staying at > > EMBASSY SUITES > > EMBASSY SUITES > > 901 CALAVERAS BLVD > > MILPITAS CA 95035 PHONE-408 942-0400 > > FAX-408 262-8604 > > Sounds like an idea. > > Folks interested in "something" can mail me with suggestions & I'll see > if I can coordinate; I'd guess "eat somewhere" is probably the best, > but I'm not down that way so recommendations would be handy. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com howabout forwarding it to the sf mailinglist I forget what it is however.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 15:25:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10018 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:25:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10011 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:25:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 0zsEhS-0001hc-00; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:25:21 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA04542; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:24:54 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23846; Mon, 21 Dec 98 23:24:51 GMT Message-Id: <367ED766.C2941435@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:19:02 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Phone rates References: <4.1.19981221111410.06cbb650@mail.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 11:15 AM 12/21/98 +0000, tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk wrote: > > >Capitalism may reign supreme over on your side of the water, but > >British Telecom is unfortunately rather too good at sucking in the > >profits over here... > > I understand that there are two others: Mercury and another. Are > they undercutting BT or just going along for the ride? > Part of the problem is that BT still own all the major inter-city trunks, so even if you use Mercury making a call from, say, London to Manchester still has to use BT lines, which Mercury has to pay for. So BT still holds the upper hand. > I do recall that some pay phones in the UK also rejected the 0800 > number for my MCI international calling card. Why? The phone was > owned by a company that had an exclusive deal with AT&T. They > blocked calls to anyone else's 800 number. > Don't know. I didn't think that sort of thing was allowed. > --Brett > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 15:25:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10023 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:25:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10012 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:25:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 0zsEhQ-0006PW-00; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:25:18 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA04537; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:24:47 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23839; Mon, 21 Dec 98 23:24:44 GMT Message-Id: <367EB47A.526E7B65@globalnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:50:02 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Reply-To: marko@uk.radan.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) References: <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220203743.04583160@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981221104151.03df1690@mail.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 08:37 AM 12/21/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >Actually, we also have a special area code (0845) with a _low_ (a > >relative term) per-minute rate that all ISP's (and CompuServe and AOL) > >use. > > Low for you; outrageous for the US. When I was in the UK this summer, I > paid an average of 18p a unit from hotel rooms. Just checking e-mail, > when I could do it, cost a bundle. > Hotels of course charge whatever they like, which is usually many times more than the real cost of the call. Surely the same must be true in US hotels? > --Brett -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 15:25:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10048 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-22.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10032 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:25:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 0zsEhQ-0001ch-00; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:25:17 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA04540; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:24:51 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23842; Mon, 21 Dec 98 23:24:46 GMT Message-Id: <367ED69A.C58FE14F@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:15:38 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) References: <83356.914256216@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > I think we get ripped off for just about everything in Europe (when > > Speaking as a former occupant of Europe, I can only agree. :) > Let's not even get into the differences in tax rates... Sometimes I'm > amazed that there are _any_ rich people in Europe, or if not amazed > then certainly understanding why there's so much money in Switzerland. > With taxes as high as 75% in some of the Nordic countries, I'd > hide my money too! :) > Used to be as high as 83% in the UK. When they reduced the top rate to 60% the amount of money raised from those "eligible" for top rate tax actually went *up*, because it wasn't worth hiding it (cheaper than getting done for tax evasion). > > clothes etc, what cost a Pound in England cost a Dollar in the US (the > > exchange rate was ~$2.40/UKP, thats 60% cheaper!). I'll bet things are > > still the same, although we're down to ~$1.60/UKP. No wonder Americans > > Seen just yesterday: Round-trip from San Francisco to London, $277 USD. > Gack! At that price, it's almost worth going for just a couple of days. > > > Mind you, I can't see why telcoms need to be so expensive in Europe. > > After all, the distances within any European country are considerably > > less than in the States so the cost of providing the infrastructure > > should be considerably less too. No doubt greedy Governments are > > partly to blame with high taxes, VAT (sales tax) is 17.5% in the UK. > > That and a total lack of competition. With any market based economy, > things are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them, there > being no such thing as "intrinsic value" anymore, really. Therefore > when there are two or more providers of a reasource, they play off one > another and people's willingness to pay without negotiation first goes > down, driving the prices down in turn. It's not like the businessmen > in the U.S. are more altruistic or anything, there are simply a lot > more of them competing for those scarce customer dollars! :) > Yes, the competition was supposed to come from the Cable operators, but as I said before, that just doesn't seem to be working, so BT continue with a virtual monopoly. > What really burns me up is that Europe, with its far more advantageous > population density, hasn't leveraged this advantage properly. When > your entire country is the size of one small eastern U.S. state, > you're able to do a lot of really nifty things that you just can't do > when your population is over 250 million people. > > You can have smaller, more effective schools and closer ties with > industry for training students in real-life situations (what the > Germans call a student's "prakticum", I believe) and you can wire up > the local population for a much cheaper cost per head in terms of > doing things like wireless roaming networks (what Metrocom calls > "Ricochet" service here the U.S.). > Precisely. The UK has about 1/5th the population of the US, but 1/37th the land area so it should be cost-effective to provide us with a telephony infra-structure superior to that in the US. > In other words, the Europeans have always had the option of creating a > far more skilled and well educated information society than they have > and it's frankly kind of criminal that they appear to be blowing the > opportunity. Even the much-vaunted European school system standards > have decayed significantly from their former heights, and I know I'm > generalizing wildly here now but I'm thinking mostly of the > UK/Germany/France here - perhaps the nordic countries have done better > over the last 2 decades, I just don't know. > > What I do know is that many European countries have been famous for > centuries for having some of the best educated populations and for > fostering some of the greatest periods of intellectual advancement > (like the Rennaisance) in human history. Now that we've reached the > information age, it looks like just about everyone except for perhaps > Finland has completely dropped the ball. What's going on over there, > guys? You should have wireless, unmetered usage, IP networks covering > every major city and federal programs where every able-bodied citizen > over 10 years old gets a state sponsored laptop and a wireless modem. > Villages of 40 people or more should qualify for free E1 service or > even more if some percentage of the population is actively engaged in > software development. It is this long, long history which contributes to the conservatism (lower case 'c', nothing to do with the Conservative Party) we have over here, that resistance to change, which slows down advancement. Now we've got to the information age this is a massive handicap as the pace of change is so rapid that we fall a long way behind in next to no time. There is an almost total lack of willingness for investors to put money into new ventures that are the first in there field, as there is no _proof_ that it is going to be successful. Investors only seem to be interested in dead certs. This contrasts to, as I see it, the US approach that if you plough enough money in then _anything_ can be a success. There was a TV programme here a while ago presented jointly by Robert X Cringley (author of Triumph of the Nerds) which looked at the world of IT in the US & UK. They showed a couple of students in a room at a US university who had created a new Web search engine (Google or Googley IIRC) who approached investors. One guy turned up, watched their demo, and wrote them a cheque for $100,000 there and then. This contrasted with a guy here who had set up an online bookstore, that was actually up and running, but he just couldn't get a penny of investment because it was new and innovative. It was eventually bought out by amazon.com (and is now amzon.uk.com), a company who I believe has never made a single dollar profit but is quoted as being worth millions on the US stock market. That would never happen here. > Get Off Your Butts, you EC slackers! :-) > Well said. > - Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 16:28:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19256 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:28:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19249 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:28:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA28879; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:28:17 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221171656.06cdb1c0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:25:15 -0700 To: marko@uk.radan.com From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <367EB47A.526E7B65@globalnet.co.uk> References: <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220203743.04583160@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981221104151.03df1690@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:50 PM 12/21/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >Hotels of course charge whatever they like, which is usually many >times more than the real cost of the call. Surely the same must be >true in US hotels? In many US hotels, local calls are free. In the ones that are the biggest ripoffs, local calls carry a flat per-call charge, typically 50 or 75 cents. Some try to charge you exorbitant amounts for long distance, but only a complete fool falls for that, as you can use your own calling card from a hotel phone, dial an 800 number, and avoid those charges. In the UK, hotel phone rates for calls are typically 18p - 20p per "unit." A "unit" is about a 3-minute local call at night or a 1-minute local call during the day. No flat rates, no free local calls, and even 0800 numbers are usually charged for. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 16:28:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19275 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:28:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19252 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:28:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA28883; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:28:18 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221172549.06d732c0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:27:37 -0700 To: Mark Ovens From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Phone rates Cc: tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <367ED766.C2941435@uk.radan.com> References: <4.1.19981221111410.06cbb650@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:19 PM 12/21/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >> I do recall that some pay phones in the UK also rejected the 0800 >> number for my MCI international calling card. Why? The phone was >> owned by a company that had an exclusive deal with AT&T. They >> blocked calls to anyone else's 800 number. >> > >Don't know. I didn't think that sort of thing was allowed. Not only did they do it, but an operator rudely refused to connect me. He told me, quite frankly, that I could bloody well go to another pay phone, because he'd lose his job if he put me through to MCI long distance. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 16:48:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21380 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:48:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21373 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:48:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4000.ime.net [209.90.195.10]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id TAA04765; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:48:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981221194415.00914a80@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:45:03 -0500 To: marko@uk.radan.com, Brett Glass From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <367EB47A.526E7B65@globalnet.co.uk> References: <19981220235019.A6362@keltia.freenix.fr> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220203743.04583160@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981221104151.03df1690@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:50 PM 12/21/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >Brett Glass wrote: >> >> At 08:37 AM 12/21/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >> >> >Actually, we also have a special area code (0845) with a _low_ (a >> >relative term) per-minute rate that all ISP's (and CompuServe and AOL) >> >use. >> >> Low for you; outrageous for the US. When I was in the UK this summer, I >> paid an average of 18p a unit from hotel rooms. Just checking e-mail, >> when I could do it, cost a bundle. >> > >Hotels of course charge whatever they like, which is usually many >times more than the real cost of the call. Surely the same must be >true in US hotels? Sure, it is that way here.. Depending on where you go you can easily get screwed into things. Especially in places that are backed by a corporate butt-kiss from like AT&T or Sprint, or something like that. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 17:36:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27451 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:36:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paris.dppl.com (paris.dppl.com [205.230.74.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA27443 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:36:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yds@ingress.com) Received: (qmail 52218 invoked from network); 22 Dec 1998 01:36:39 -0000 Received: from ichiban.ingress.com (HELO ichiban) (205.230.64.31) by paris.dppl.com with SMTP; 22 Dec 1998 01:36:39 -0000 Message-ID: <012b01be2d4b$8b95ccc0$1f40e6cd@ichiban.ingress.com> From: "Yarema" To: Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8.0 For Linux works :-) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:36:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >and upgrade to paid versions. And this would offload >some of the FTP traffic from their overburdened >servers. Er... you mean Walnut Creek's overburdened ftp server :) -- Yarema To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 17:46:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29075 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:46:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt3-34.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29047 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:46:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA06621 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:46:15 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199812220146.TAA06621@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-reply-to: Message from Brett Glass of "Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:32:21 MST." <4.1.19981219173154.06b97f10@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:46:15 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > Microsoft, Sears Plan Merger > > REDMOND, WA -- A giant of the software industry is planning a merger with a > giant of retailing. Hey wait one second. I just noticed something in Brett's headers: X-mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Has Microsoft bought Brett too? OTOH I'd pay for a FreeBSD version of Eudora. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 17:53:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29992 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:53:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29987 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:53:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4000.ime.net [209.90.195.10]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id UAA04898; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:53:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981221204651.00acf510@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:50:08 -0500 To: David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-Reply-To: <199812220146.TAA06621@n4hhe.ampr.org> References: <4.1.19981219173154.06b97f10@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:46 PM 12/21/98 -0600, David Kelly wrote: >Brett Glass writes: >> Microsoft, Sears Plan Merger >> >> REDMOND, WA -- A giant of the software industry is planning a merger with a >> giant of retailing. > >Hey wait one second. I just noticed something in Brett's headers: > > X-mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 > >Has Microsoft bought Brett too? OTOH I'd pay for a FreeBSD version of >Eudora. --- My Rant: Hey wait a minute here.. I use Eudora.. While I can't stand Microsoft, I am required to exist in a Microsoft world.. If you can get 85+% of the software on the market to work on FreeBSD, and support my Voodoo2 card, I'll switch.. People that sell out to Microsoft are the people that think nothing else exists.. I'm proud of the existance of my FreeBSD machine and the ones I manage.. Unfortunately in a school setting, we do 'whatever gets the job done'. Some things I can't control. Also I've been using Eudora since my Mac days before Qualcomm ate it up, and I like it :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 18:26:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03908 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:26:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03668 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:23:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id TAA29757; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:22:16 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221190632.06ca4f10@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:21:37 -0700 To: David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-Reply-To: <199812220146.TAA06621@n4hhe.ampr.org> References: <4.1.19981219173154.06b97f10@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:46 PM 12/21/98 -0600, David Kelly wrote: >Brett Glass writes: >> Microsoft, Sears Plan Merger >> >> REDMOND, WA -- A giant of the software industry is planning a merger with a >> giant of retailing. > >Hey wait one second. I just noticed something in Brett's headers: > > X-mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 > >Has Microsoft bought Brett too? OTOH I'd pay for a FreeBSD version of >Eudora. Microsoft hasn't bought me at all. However, some of the machines we bought for the lab came with, and run, Windows. Intentionally. You see, while we use FreeBSD for our servers and mission-critical storage, we need to have all kinds of clients up and running here. Part of my job is helping the poor schlubs who must live with Microsoft Windows. So, I need machines on which to test Windows software. I also explain to folks how to get around misfeatures and bugs. In general, I tell people that they can use Windows on their clients if they must. But I also say NOT to use Windows NT on the server, where the really mission-critical stuff happens. Until they feel they can switch their workstations over, having the server for storage, backup, e-mail, Web service, etc. gives them SOME measure of reliability and recoverability. --Brett P.S. -- Don't hold your breath for a FreeBSD version of Eudora. Eudora uses Microsoft's Internet Explorer to display HTML messages, and attempts to force the installation of IE when it is installed. So, Qualcomm probably had to sell its soul to Microsoft to get access to the code. I managed to keep it from depositing IE on this particular machine, but the average user won't know to do that. Another thing you should know is that Qualcomm is engaged in a feud with Netscape in which both are acting silly. Netscape wouldn't provide Qualcomm with a hook that would let them make Eudora the system's default mailer, so Eudora "hooks" events destined for Navigator and grabs clicks on e-mail links. But Eudora can only do this while it's running. Therefore, if Eudora is NOT running, and you click on an e-mail link, you get Netscape's mailer instead. Your address book, prior messages, etc. aren't there, of course, which is a big pain. Worse still, sometimes the two programs get into a tussle over which one will handle an event, and one program or the other just hangs. It's a royal pain, and has caused quite a few users to drop one product or the other. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 18:27:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03973 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:27:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03963 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:27:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA01331; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:57:23 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA08565; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:57:23 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981222125723.W85005@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:57:23 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Ovens , Brett Glass Cc: tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Phone rates References: <4.1.19981221111410.06cbb650@mail.lariat.org> <367ED766.C2941435@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <367ED766.C2941435@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 11:19:02PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 21 December 1998 at 23:19:02 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > Brett Glass wrote: >> >> At 11:15 AM 12/21/98 +0000, tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk wrote: >> >>> Capitalism may reign supreme over on your side of the water, but >>> British Telecom is unfortunately rather too good at sucking in the >>> profits over here... >> >> I understand that there are two others: Mercury and another. Are >> they undercutting BT or just going along for the ride? >> > > Part of the problem is that BT still own all the major inter-city > trunks, so even if you use Mercury making a call from, say, London to > Manchester still has to use BT lines, which Mercury has to pay for. So > BT still holds the upper hand. That's part of the story. In most countries, the (ex-)national Telecom provider owns the trunks. I think it's even the case in the US, though I'm not sure. It's certainly the case here in Australia, but I subscribe to a discount service which gives me national long-distance calls (up to about 3000 miles) for $0.19/minute in peak time and $0.14/minute for the rest (Australian $, about $0.60 US). That's *much* lower than Telstra, and pretty good in international comparison. Phone calls to the USA are about $0.31 a minute. >> I do recall that some pay phones in the UK also rejected the 0800 >> number for my MCI international calling card. Why? The phone was >> owned by a company that had an exclusive deal with AT&T. They >> blocked calls to anyone else's 800 number. > > Don't know. I didn't think that sort of thing was allowed. I'm sure it's not, but it's apparently pretty common. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 18:35:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05030 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:35:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05007 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:35:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA01381; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:05:08 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id NAA08593; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:05:08 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981222130508.Y85005@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:05:08 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Ovens , jonathan michaels Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: AT&T (was: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8)) References: <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812202020.MAA46296@rah.star-gate.com> <4.1.19981220152518.00ac53d0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981220213341.009a9160@genesis.ispace.com> <367E0725.4749B7CB@uk.radan.com> <19981221201918.E8445@caamora.com.au> <367E2735.E62A6558@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <367E2735.E62A6558@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 10:47:17AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 21 December 1998 at 10:47:17 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > AFAIK, the US telephone system has always been privately owned and has > therefore had competition from day one. You need to look into the history of UNIX more carefully. AT&T was not state-owned, but it was very definitely a monopoly until it was broken up. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 18:40:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05849 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:40:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05831 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:40:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4000.ime.net [209.90.195.10]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id VAA05001; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:40:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981221212456.00ac4dc0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:36:27 -0500 To: Brett Glass , David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981221190632.06ca4f10@mail.lariat.org> References: <199812220146.TAA06621@n4hhe.ampr.org> <4.1.19981219173154.06b97f10@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:21 PM 12/21/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >Microsoft hasn't bought me at all. However, some of the machines >we bought for the lab came with, and run, Windows. Intentionally. > >You see, while we use FreeBSD for our servers and mission-critical >storage, we need to have all kinds of clients up and running here. >Part of my job is helping the poor schlubs who must live with >Microsoft Windows. So, I need machines on which to test Windows >software. I also explain to folks how to get around misfeatures >and bugs. > >In general, I tell people that they can use Windows on their clients >if they must. But I also say NOT to use Windows NT on the server, where >the really mission-critical stuff happens. Until they feel they >can switch their workstations over, having the server for storage, >backup, e-mail, Web service, etc. gives them SOME measure of reliability >and recoverability. > >--Brett > >P.S. -- Don't hold your breath for a FreeBSD version of Eudora. Eudora >uses Microsoft's Internet Explorer to display HTML messages, and attempts >to force the installation of IE when it is installed. So, Qualcomm >probably had to sell its soul to Microsoft to get access to the code. >I managed to keep it from depositing IE on this particular machine, but >the average user won't know to do that. Qualcomm recommends to disable the Microsoft viewer in solution to some sort of a virii of IE. but also all it takes is a CUSTOM install of Eudora in order to avoid IE4.. It also does not come with the 4.1 installation should you download it from Qualcomm. The microsoft viewer is an option, as it goes I don't see a competitive advantage in having it enabled, namely because I don't have IE installed (with exception of the 2.0 or 3.02 that coes with the OSR of 95).. You aren't directly required to bow down to any Microsoft product (With exception of windows) to use it. The downside is, can't view HTML messages, but then again, even when I was running it on WIN98, it wouldn't let me then either, not in-line. >Another thing you should know is that Qualcomm is engaged in a feud with >Netscape in which both are acting silly. Netscape wouldn't provide Qualcomm >with a hook that would let them make Eudora the system's default mailer, >so Eudora "hooks" events destined for Navigator and grabs clicks >on e-mail links. But Eudora can only do this while it's running. Therefore, >if Eudora is NOT running, and you click on an e-mail link, you get Netscape's >mailer instead. Your address book, prior messages, etc. aren't there, of >course, which is a big pain. Worse still, sometimes the two programs get >into a tussle over which one will handle an event, and one program or the >other just hangs. It's a royal pain, and has caused quite a few users to >drop one product or the other. Yeah Getright (a download manager/resumer) does this too. At times opening Netscape will crash the copy of Eudora though, due to Eudora trying to find a hitch.. Netscape should learn not to cause feuds with competing products, IE will let you pick what messaging client you want to use. The reason why Eudora uses IE for the HTML is similar to why Intel's Intercast Viewer does. Adding HTML decoding to a Microsoft VC++ program is extremely easy, when you can just simply drop the Internet Explorer ACTIVEX Control into your project, and link it. Netscape doesn't offer such a solution, I'd imagine they're not too worried about such a feature, even though I think they should. For what it's worth :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 22:56:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08880 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:56:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhub.ainet.com (mailhub.ainet.com [204.30.40.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08866 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:56:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmscott@ainet.com) Received: from shell.ainet.com (jmscott@shell.ainet.com [204.30.40.108]) by mailhub.ainet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA21531; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:56:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by shell.ainet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26329; for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 21 Dec 98 22:58:16 PST Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:58:16 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Scott" To: Drew Baxter Cc: Brett Glass , David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981221212456.00ac4dc0@genesis.ispace.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > The reason why Eudora uses IE for the HTML is similar to why Intel's > Intercast Viewer does. Adding HTML decoding to a Microsoft VC++ program is > extremely easy, when you can just simply drop the Internet Explorer ACTIVEX > Control into your project, and link it. Netscape doesn't offer such a > solution, I'd imagine they're not too worried about such a feature, even > though I think they should. > > For what it's worth :) Just a quick nickel for your thoughts, I don't recall which trade mag it was, but one of them mentioned this, and that Netscape is actually developing this type of html engine so that other software can make use of it. The following week I'd read that there was some early releases of this that were tested and the folks looking at it were very impressed. I don't know if that says much, but at least it's out there and Netscape is aware of it. While I'm at it, I emailed Qualcomm quite awhile back almost begging for a port of Eudora to X. I never got a response. When I switched desktops completely from Win95 to FreeBSD that was one the things I missed the most. In the mean time pine and procmail have become much closer friends than before :-) Joseph Scott jmscott@ainet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 21 23:01:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09521 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:01:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09516 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:01:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id AAA01969; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 00:01:03 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221235740.06b4feb0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 00:00:26 -0700 To: "Joseph M. Scott" , Drew Baxter From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981221212456.00ac4dc0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:58 PM 12/21/98 -0800, Joseph M. Scott wrote: > While I'm at it, I emailed Qualcomm quite awhile back almost >begging for a port of Eudora to X. I never got a response. When I >switched desktops completely from Win95 to FreeBSD that was one the things >I missed the most. In the mean time pine and procmail have become much >closer friends than before :-) I wonder: If I use Netscape to grab the contents of a Eudora database on a Windows machine, can I then bring the converted files over to Netscape Mail on X? If I could, I could always switch to a UNIX client for e-mail. Of course, I'd still have to keep Eudora online. It gets LOTS of questions from readers, because in my experience Qualcomm tech support is unresponsive and will NEVER admit to even the most blatant bug. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 03:01:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA29856 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:01:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ruhrgebiet.individual.net (in-ruhr.ruhr.de [141.39.224.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA29851 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:01:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bs@adimus.de) Received: (from admin@localhost) by mail.ruhrgebiet.individual.net (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5) with UUCP id MAA09074 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:00:51 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail by mx.adimus.de with local (Exim 1.92 #1) for chat@freebsd.org id 0zsOpV-0000F4-00; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:14:17 +0100 Received: from det.adimus.de(192.168.0.1) via SMTP by adimus.de, id smtpdAOC648; Tue Dec 22 11:14:09 1998 Received: from bs by det.adimus.de with local (Exim 1.92 #1) for chat@FreeBSD.ORG id 0zsOpM-0007WB-00; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:14:08 +0100 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) References: <83356.914256216@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Benedikt Stockebrand Date: 22 Dec 1998 11:14:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of "Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:03:36 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 122 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > Speaking as a former occupant of Europe, I can only agree. :) \begin{aol} Speaking as a life-time captive of Europe, I can only agree, too :( \end{aol} > Let's not even get into the differences in tax rates... Sometimes I'm > amazed that there are _any_ rich people in Europe, or if not amazed > then certainly understanding why there's so much money in Switzerland. > With taxes as high as 75% in some of the Nordic countries, I'd > hide my money too! :) Well, while I've never made it further north than Denmark, the system in scandinavian countries is basically that lots of things are government-funded. I was told that in Sweden you get a leased line (IIRC 2Mbit) virtually for free all throughout the country even though the population density in most places is somewhat scarce even compared to US standards. Comparing the percentage of analphabets in the US and most european countries, a government-paid school and college/university system the higher taxes may be well spent in many cases. However, the government-sponsored leased lines in Sweden are basically what starts the problems with telco monopolies: Since things are sponsored they aren't usually done in a particularly economic way. So while Sweden gets a head start with WAN technology and everything based on it chances are that in a couple decades they'll pay dearly for an inefficient government monopoly. This is exactly what happened when telephony came up some decades ago. Unfortunately it took a bl**dy long time for people to realize that a start-up government sponsoring needs to be throttled as soon as the whole thing gets enough momentum to be left to the economic mechanism. > Seen just yesterday: Round-trip from San Francisco to London, $277 USD. > Gack! At that price, it's almost worth going for just a couple of days. Could you get me a round-trip Frankfurt-San Francisco-Frankfurt for the same rate?-) > That and a total lack of competition. With any market based economy, > things are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them, there > being no such thing as "intrinsic value" anymore, really. Therefore > when there are two or more providers of a reasource, they play off one > another and people's willingness to pay without negotiation first goes > down, driving the prices down in turn. It's not like the businessmen > in the U.S. are more altruistic or anything, there are simply a lot > more of them competing for those scarce customer dollars! :) OTOH, there are some projects that need (government) funding to get started somehow. This may be a reduction of taxes paid by companies embarking on such projects. I don't know what's done about this, really. At least with your health insurance things get pretty expensive once you start a company. Another big problem is venture capital. Technically speaking it's not unknown here in Germany, but I doubt that any bank would actually dare to go for this. That's a fairly big problem (especially for yours truly currently trying to start a company with some friends) even if you're in the sysadmin outsourcing business where you don't need much initial capital for equipment but enough money to get something to eat for a couple months. > What really burns me up is that Europe, with its far more advantageous > population density, hasn't leveraged this advantage properly. When > your entire country is the size of one small eastern U.S. state, > you're able to do a lot of really nifty things that you just can't do > when your population is over 250 million people. Just for the records: About two or three years ago in another newsgroup I've asked about the price for a T1 leased line of 10 miles in the US. The equivalent (S2M 2Mbit leased line) here in Germany was about 70 (seventy) times as expensive as in southern California. No typo. > You can have smaller, more effective schools I think we take good advantage of that. We've got three different levels of high schools, for example. > and closer ties with > industry for training students in real-life situations (what the > Germans call a student's "prakticum", I believe) Even though I consider that a good idea this can bring some problems with it, too. Sometimes industry is more interested in cheap labour (especially fortran^Wcobol programmers) than actually training people... > What I do know is that many European countries have been famous for > centuries for having some of the best educated populations and for > fostering some of the greatest periods of intellectual advancement > (like the Rennaisance) in human history. Now that we've reached the > information age, it looks like just about everyone except for perhaps > Finland has completely dropped the ball. What's going on over there, > guys? In a nutshell: Politicians trying to manage technological progress... > You should have wireless, unmetered usage, IP networks covering > every major city and federal programs where every able-bodied citizen > over 10 years old gets a state sponsored laptop and a wireless modem. > Villages of 40 people or more should qualify for free E1 service or > even more if some percentage of the population is actively engaged in > software development. ... and a stout oak tree for the politicians trying to tell people how to do business. So long, Ben -- Benedikt Stockebrand Adimus Beratungsgesellschaft für System- System Administration & Design, und Netzwerkadministration mbH & Co KG IT Security, Remote System Mgmt Universitätsstr. 142, 44799 Bochum Opinions presented are my own. Tel. (02 34) 971 971 -2, Fax -9 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 05:11:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14504 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:11:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14499 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:11:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA42773; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:11:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: One more for the FAQ? From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 22 Dec 1998 14:11:01 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 50 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Excerpts from yesterday's #freebsd logs: [10:57] what time does the freebsd team start working :) [10:58] zed_works: we're always working. [10:58] no [10:58] Work? :) [10:58] i meant as in time [10:58] like GMT time [10:58] <_JB> 9 to 5 [10:58] where are u guys based [10:58] zed_works: all over the world. [10:59] zed_works: we generally show up at the FreeBSD Development Labs around 9 or 10 am [10:59] zed_works: though there's a lot (relatively) of telecommuting [10:59] where is the HQ in the world [10:59] DES: sometimes we come in later, after we've been drinking. [10:59] zed_works: Kurdistan. [10:59] jkh: or smoking. [10:59] <_JB> haha [11:00] kurdistan [11:00] serious [11:00] zed_works: absolutely. Rent is really cheap there right now. [11:00] zed_works: yeah, it has the best supply of weed [11:00] nah u guys are taking the piss arent u [11:00] zed_works: very important [11:00] zed_works: nah, how did you guess? [11:00] bastards :) [11:01] <_JB> zed_works: FreeBSD was always based on loosely defined asian nations to help its development [11:01] ok ok [11:01] enough [11:01] i get it [11:01] Action: DES bonks zed_works on the head [11:01] take the piss time [11:01] fine i go back to work [11:01] <_JB> yeah, you do that [11:02] Did somebody have a log of that? [11:02] ok ok [11:02] i am off [11:02] i leave u in peace [11:02] <_JB> u u u u u [11:06] i want a vi mug [11:06] Who doesn't? [11:06] Action: zed_works quickly goes back to work ;D So now the secret is out: the high-security FreeBSD Development Labs are located in Kurdistan, and if the Bills put their heads together, you can all guess where the next bomb raid will be. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 05:45:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17471 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:45:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA17466 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:45:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zsS7r-0006JX-00; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:45:35 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA01727; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:43:36 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-2) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09728; Tue, 22 Dec 98 13:43:33 GMT Message-Id: <367F957B.536D6E61@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:50:03 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Yarema Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8.0 For Linux works :-) References: <012b01be2d4b$8b95ccc0$1f40e6cd@ichiban.ingress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yarema wrote: > > >and upgrade to paid versions. And this would offload > >some of the FTP traffic from their overburdened > >servers. > > Er... you mean Walnut Creek's overburdened ftp server :) > Your right. I tried several times the other day to get onto ftp.cdrom.com to d/l WP8 and kept getting refused because the maximum 3600 users were already connected (gave up in the end). What's the betting that JMB will soon be announcing yet another step towards 1TB/day very soon? > -- > Yarema > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 07:45:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05184 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:45:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA05179 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:45:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@mediaone.net) Received: from mediaone.net (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA24810 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:45:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <367FBF40.19D8BEFD@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:48:16 -0800 From: Joey Garcia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger References: <199812220146.TAA06621@n4hhe.ampr.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Man, I'd practically kill for a version of Eudora for X. Although as usuall, the X versions of Windows software never work as good. That url drag and drop into a toolbar folder thingy that Netscape has doesn't work quite as well on X as it does on Windows. Has anyone else noticed that problem? Or is it just me? Anyways, I too have been using Eudora since the Mac days and there's no way I can change to something else. Well then again I do like pine, but when I'm in X I just use Netscape's mailer, but I don't like it much. David Kelly wrote: > > Has Microsoft bought Brett too? OTOH I'd pay for a FreeBSD version of > Eudora. > > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net > ===================================================================== > The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its > capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. -- =============================================== Joseph Garcia gummibear@mediaone.net Downey, CA =============================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 10:30:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28610 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-22.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28592 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:30:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from [158.152.46.40] (helo=ragnet.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zsWZd-0005qa-00; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:30:25 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0zsMmO-0003yN-00; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:02:56 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <367ED766.C2941435@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:02:56 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: Phone rates Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk, Brett Glass Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 21-Dec-98 Mark Ovens wrote: > > > Brett Glass wrote: >> >> At 11:15 AM 12/21/98 +0000, tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk wrote: >> >> >Capitalism may reign supreme over on your side of the water, but >> >British Telecom is unfortunately rather too good at sucking in the >> >profits over here... >> >> I understand that there are two others: Mercury and another. Are >> they undercutting BT or just going along for the ride? >> > > Part of the problem is that BT still own all the major inter-city > trunks, so even if you use Mercury making a call from, say, London to > Manchester still has to use BT lines, which Mercury has to pay for. So > BT still holds the upper hand. > Actually, this isn't right. There are still a lot of BT only trunks but Mercury have their own or use trunks laid down next to railway lines by British R ail (second largest trunk network in the UK). Energis and Scottish Telecom have thier own lines, Energis wraps fibre optic cable around its parents power transmission lines and have UK wide coverage. Not sure how Scottish power does it, it may be the same as Energis. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 11:14:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05549 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:14:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05538 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:14:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.227]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6A0A; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:14:15 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981221190632.06ca4f10@mail.lariat.org> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:20:45 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 22-Dec-98 Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:46 PM 12/21/98 -0600, David Kelly wrote: > >>Brett Glass writes: >> X-mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 >> >>Has Microsoft bought Brett too? OTOH I'd pay for a FreeBSD version of >>Eudora. > P.S. -- Don't hold your breath for a FreeBSD version of Eudora. Eudora > uses Microsoft's Internet Explorer to display HTML messages, and attempts > to force the installation of IE when it is installed. So, Qualcomm > probably had to sell its soul to Microsoft to get access to the code. > I managed to keep it from depositing IE on this particular machine, but > the average user won't know to do that. Djeez, just compile XFMail ye wimps =) *runs and hides* As a former Eudora user I find this to be very very close to it... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 11:28:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09020 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:28:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08901 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:28:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.227]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6BCE; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:28:15 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981221235740.06b4feb0@mail.lariat.org> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:34:44 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly , Drew Baxter , "Joseph M. Scott" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 22-Dec-98 Brett Glass wrote: > At 10:58 PM 12/21/98 -0800, Joseph M. Scott wrote: > >> While I'm at it, I emailed Qualcomm quite awhile back almost >>begging for a port of Eudora to X. I never got a response. When I >>switched desktops completely from Win95 to FreeBSD that was one the things >>I missed the most. In the mean time pine and procmail have become much >>closer friends than before :-) > > I wonder: If I use Netscape to grab the contents of a Eudora database > on a Windows machine, can I then bring the converted files over to > Netscape Mail on X? If I could, I could always switch to a UNIX > client for e-mail. OK, the short story: Eudora uses MBOX boxes... Just FTP them over or else through disks and import them in XFMail by placing them in it's main Mail directory, then remake yer folders as MH boxes to increase performance. Long story: there is none ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 11:38:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15225 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:38:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15013 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:38:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zsXdI-0002eC-00; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:38:17 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA02891; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:37:43 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17266; Tue, 22 Dec 98 19:37:41 GMT Message-Id: <367FF436.96D9CBC6@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:34:14 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Duncan Barclay Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk, Brett Glass Subject: Re: Phone rates References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Duncan Barclay wrote: > > On 21-Dec-98 Mark Ovens wrote: > > > > > > Brett Glass wrote: > >> > >> At 11:15 AM 12/21/98 +0000, tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk wrote: > >> > >> >Capitalism may reign supreme over on your side of the water, but > >> >British Telecom is unfortunately rather too good at sucking in the > >> >profits over here... > >> > >> I understand that there are two others: Mercury and another. Are > >> they undercutting BT or just going along for the ride? > >> > > > > Part of the problem is that BT still own all the major inter-city > > trunks, so even if you use Mercury making a call from, say, London to > > Manchester still has to use BT lines, which Mercury has to pay for. So > > BT still holds the upper hand. > > > > Actually, this isn't right. > > There are still a lot of BT only trunks but Mercury > have their own or use trunks laid down next to railway lines by British R > ail (second largest trunk network in the UK). Energis and Scottish Telecom have > thier own lines, Energis wraps fibre optic cable around its parents power > transmission lines and have UK wide coverage. Not sure how Scottish power does > it, it may be the same as Energis. > I stand corrected. So why then does BT still seem to have a stranglehold over telecomms? > Duncan > > --- > ________________________________________________________________________ > Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, > dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. > ________________________________________________________________________ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 11:39:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15665 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:39:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15228 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:38:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.227]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA5338; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:38:28 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981221204651.00acf510@genesis.ispace.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:44:58 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 22-Dec-98 Drew Baxter wrote: > --- My Rant: > Hey wait a minute here.. I use Eudora.. While I can't stand Microsoft, I am > required to exist in a Microsoft world.. No yer not, no-one of forcing ye *grin* > If you can get 85+% of the software on the market to work on FreeBSD, and > support my Voodoo2 card, I'll switch.. Well, ye might want to check the Quake II and 3Dfx thread/posts on http://www.freebsdrocks.com > People that sell out to Microsoft are the people that think nothing else > exists.. I'm proud of the existance of my FreeBSD machine and the ones I > manage.. Unfortunately in a school setting, we do 'whatever gets the job > done'. Some things I can't control. Whatever gets the job done? Cross-platform: PDF, PS =) Well, I do, unfortunately, know how ye feel... MS Marketing sucks because it's damn good... > Also I've been using Eudora since my Mac days before Qualcomm ate it up, > and I like it :) And from 3 -> 4 it remained as it were, incorporating MS bloatware in the form of Internet Explorer 4 to be able to view those eternally damned HTML messages. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 11:50:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24895 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:50:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24782 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:50:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4013.ime.net [209.90.195.23]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id OAA07583; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:50:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981222144311.00ad23d0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:47:54 -0500 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981221204651.00acf510@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:44 PM 12/22/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > >No yer not, no-one of forcing ye *grin* > Wrong.. I have a choice, I either pick my operating system, or I have a job. > >Well, ye might want to check the Quake II and 3Dfx thread/posts on >http://www.freebsdrocks.com > oooh Quake 2... How about Need For Speed 3? or Turok 2? or... > >Whatever gets the job done? Cross-platform: PDF, PS =) > Uhm PDF is not a cheap solution, not when Adobe Acrobat is a good 300 dollars. >Well, I do, unfortunately, know how ye feel... MS Marketing sucks because it's >damn good... Good marketing means seeking out vendors to develop under your product. You'd think companies wouldn't mind developing for an OS that is deemed free.. >And from 3 -> 4 it remained as it were, incorporating MS bloatware in the >form of >Internet Explorer 4 to be able to view those eternally damned HTML messages. Incorporation is an option yknow. I do a Custom install, thus stopping IE4 and Purevoice from installing.. The America Online software installs IE4 non-electively, that's another story altogether.. Although, if you delete the installer for IE4 from the tree, that stops that problem altogether. I hate AOL, unfortunately again, have to deal with it because there are some delusional people that think it is "Sooo coool".. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 12:09:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05013 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:09:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04935 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:08:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA17326; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:08:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:08:19 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Joey Garcia cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-Reply-To: <367FBF40.19D8BEFD@mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Joey Garcia wrote: > Man, I'd practically kill for a version of Eudora for X. Although as usuall, > the X versions of Windows software never work as good. That url drag and drop > into a toolbar folder thingy that Netscape has doesn't work quite as well on X > as it does on Windows. Has anyone else noticed that problem? Or is it just > me? The thing that befuddles me is that as long as I've used *nix, I've always thought command-completion was the coolest thing. When I downloaded the first windows version of netscape where it completes the URL field for you, I was thrilled. This feature *still* doesn't exist in the X versions... I feel sooo cheated. Charles > Anyways, I too have been using Eudora since the Mac days and > there's no way > I can change to something else. Well then again I do like pine, but when I'm in > X I just use Netscape's mailer, but I don't like it much. > > David Kelly wrote: > > > > > Has Microsoft bought Brett too? OTOH I'd pay for a FreeBSD version of > > Eudora. > > > > -- > > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net > > ===================================================================== > > The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its > > capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. > > -- > > =============================================== > Joseph Garcia > gummibear@mediaone.net > Downey, CA > =============================================== > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 12:43:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19173 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:43:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA19159 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:43:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA08074; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:42:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981222133616.05a64db0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:37:53 -0700 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly , Drew Baxter , "Joseph M. Scott" In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981221235740.06b4feb0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:34 PM 12/22/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >OK, the short story: > >Eudora uses MBOX boxes... Just FTP them over or else through disks and import >them in XFMail by placing them in it's main Mail directory, then remake yer >folders as MH boxes to increase performance. > >Long story: there is none ;) Longer story: If you treat Eudora files as MBOX boxes, you lose all information about which items have been read and which have not. And all connections to attachments. And information on which messages have been "deleted" but are still present in the file. That information is kept in the separate index files. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 12:46:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21039 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:46:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20912 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:45:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.27]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA436F; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:45:47 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981222133616.05a64db0@mail.lariat.org> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:52:13 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: "Joseph M. Scott" , "Joseph M. Scott" , Drew Baxter , David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 22-Dec-98 Brett Glass wrote: > At 08:34 PM 12/22/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > >>OK, the short story: >> >>Eudora uses MBOX boxes... Just FTP them over or else through disks and import >>them in XFMail by placing them in it's main Mail directory, then remake yer >>folders as MH boxes to increase performance. >> >>Long story: there is none ;) > > Longer story: If you treat Eudora files as MBOX boxes, you lose all information > about which items have been read and which have not. And all connections to > attachments. And information on which messages have been "deleted" but are > still present in the file. That information is kept in the separate index > files. *shrug* I just copied my .mbx files to FreeBSD, imported them in XFMail, toggled the mails which I had read. Ye never mentioned attachments ;) Well, I provided at least an equivalent program with the ability to take over by reading the boxes... It's up to you to take the step, but who knows, it's an interesting idea to add to the functionality of 1.4. I think I will mail this to the author for the To-do list... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 14:08:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13562 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from root.com (root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13501 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:08:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@root.com) Received: from root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18224; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:08:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812222208.OAA18224@root.com> To: Mark Ovens cc: Yarema , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WordPerfect 8.0 For Linux works :-) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:50:03 GMT." <367F957B.536D6E61@uk.radan.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:08:44 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Yarema wrote: >> >> >and upgrade to paid versions. And this would offload >> >some of the FTP traffic from their overburdened >> >servers. >> >> Er... you mean Walnut Creek's overburdened ftp server :) >> > >Your right. I tried several times the other day to get onto >ftp.cdrom.com to d/l WP8 and kept getting refused because the maximum >3600 users were already connected (gave up in the end). > >What's the betting that JMB will soon be announcing yet another step >towards 1TB/day very soon? We've been hovering around 800GB/day. We're not likely going to be setting any new records until we upgrade our network connection to something faster than 100Mbps. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 16:50:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27040 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:50:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt1-97.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27019 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA09505 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:25:32 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199812230025.SAA09505@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-reply-to: Message from Brett Glass of "Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:37:53 MST." <4.1.19981222133616.05a64db0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:25:32 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > Longer story: If you treat Eudora files as MBOX boxes, you lose all information > about which items have been read and which have not. And all connections to > attachments. And information on which messages have been "deleted" but are > still present in the file. That information is kept in the separate index files. 1) Read all the messages before you move them. 2) Pack the mbox'es in Eudora before moving them. 3) Once moved, mark all as read. Not much you can do about enclosures as Eudora separates them upon receipt of the message. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 16:50:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27049 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt1-97.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27029 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:50:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA09492 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:21:24 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199812230021.SAA09492@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-reply-to: Message from Drew Baxter of "Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:47:54 EST." <4.1.19981222144311.00ad23d0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:21:24 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Drew Baxter writes: > At 08:44 PM 12/22/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > > >No yer not, no-one of forcing ye *grin* > > > > Wrong.. I have a choice, I either pick my operating system, or I have a job. > > > > > >Well, ye might want to check the Quake II and 3Dfx thread/posts on > >http://www.freebsdrocks.com > > > > oooh Quake 2... How about Need For Speed 3? or Turok 2? or... First you claim you are Microsoft-bound for work purposes, then you ask about "Need For Speed 3" and "Turok 2", so one can understand why protecting one's job is so important. All those games to play. All I get at work is the flight simulator and cycles games that ship on SGI systems. :-) > Uhm PDF is not a cheap solution, not when Adobe Acrobat is a good 300 dollars. Acrobat Reader is free. Linux version works well with FreeBSD. Ghostscript does a pretty fair job generating PDF. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 16:50:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27072 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:50:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt1-97.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27061 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:50:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA09471; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:14:59 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199812230014.SAA09471@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-reply-to: Message from Brett Glass of "Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:21:37 MST." <4.1.19981221190632.06ca4f10@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:14:59 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > At 07:46 PM 12/21/98 -0600, David Kelly wrote: > >Hey wait one second. I just noticed something in Brett's headers: > > > > X-mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 > > > >Has Microsoft bought Brett too? OTOH I'd pay for a FreeBSD version of > >Eudora. > > Microsoft hasn't bought me at all. However, some of the machines > we bought for the lab came with, and run, Windows. Intentionally. Hey, this is -chat, and I *had* to rib you. :-) > P.S. -- Don't hold your breath for a FreeBSD version of Eudora. Eudora > uses Microsoft's Internet Explorer to display HTML messages, and attempts > to force the installation of IE when it is installed. So, Qualcomm > probably had to sell its soul to Microsoft to get access to the code. > I managed to keep it from depositing IE on this particular machine, but > the average user won't know to do that. Am not holding my breath for a FreeBSD version of Eudora. But I too would really like even Eudora Lite (no HTML) for FreeBSD. Bought Eudora Pro 2-something, 3.0, and 3.1 on my Mac, Mac version 4.0 arrived yesterday with the Windows 4.1 version to be given as a Christmas gift (Mom wants a spell checker in her email client). IMHO HTML in an email client is a negative in my book. Clicking on a URL in a message to launch a web browser is OK. Until I decide to put my Mac back into place where its connected to my FreeBSD system, my email is being handled by exmh 2.0.2. Am mostly satisfied but not totally. While I've got it working and sorting messages to directories, have never got the sort within a mail folder to work as well as with Eudora. Before exmh I used xfmail 0.3, 0.4, maybe 0.7, and 1.0. Exmh is a memory hog compared to xfmail. Built xfmail 1.3 today. Much improved. Maybe if I can turn off the bold font for email messages it would be worth a try again. And figure out how to control default window sizes. And the dark background colors are depressing. Anyhow, so much for 15 minutes poking around as there is still hope. Does XFmail allow mail folders within mail folders? ~/Mail/freebsd is the root of where I sort FreeBSD list mail. Apparently I have 103 directories under ~/Mail (but only 98 rules in ~/.maildelivery) so a linear list in XFMail isn't pleasant. Noticed XFMail put + signs in front of folders but I couldn't open them. Installed KDE one day. Poked around with it for a while too. A couple minutes with its email client also shows promise. Was thinking for a moment they used Eudora as the UI model. Didn't do much with it as I needed to move my ~/Mail directory out of the way to quiet its complaints. Guess one of the things I really miss in Eudora was the ability to re-wrap quoted email text and retain the "> " on the left side. On the Mac one holds down the option key and selects what was "Wrap Text"... I think. Memory fades. No wait, first you unwrap it and it leaves one quote string at the begining of the new paragraphs, then you wrap again and it reapplies to quote string as appropriate. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 17:18:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00938 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:18:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00933 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:18:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 28565 invoked by uid 1000); 23 Dec 1998 01:19:41 -0000 Message-ID: <19981223021941.E24544@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:19:41 +0100 From: Andreas Braukmann To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <367FBF40.19D8BEFD@mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: ; from spork on Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 03:08:19PM -0500 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 03:08:19PM -0500, spork wrote: > On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Joey Garcia wrote: > > Man, I'd practically kill for a version of Eudora for X. Although as usuall, > > the X versions of Windows software never work as good. That url drag and drop > > into a toolbar folder thingy that Netscape has doesn't work quite as well on X > > as it does on Windows. Has anyone else noticed that problem? Or is it just > > me? hmm. If my memory serves me right, ... one certain older version of Netscape/BSD (one of the 4.0x-beta-Releases) did the right thing. I consider the current misbehavior as a bug .. > The thing that befuddles me is that as long as I've used *nix, I've always > thought command-completion was the coolest thing. When I downloaded the > first windows version of netscape where it completes the URL field for > you, I was thrilled. This feature *still* doesn't exist in the X > versions... I feel sooo cheated. hmm. But I've learned to hate the 'automagic' URL-completion of the windows-Netscapes. The netscape people must have found an ai algorithm ;), that just in every case completes to the wrong URL. I really would appreciate an URL-completion done on demand (for ex. with the tab-key) and allowing to cycle through all possible completions. > > > Has Microsoft bought Brett too? OTOH I'd pay for a FreeBSD version of > > > Eudora. ... have a look at 'mutt', ... it's like [elm + pine]++ ... -Andreas -- /// TSE TeleService GmbH | Gsf: Arne Reuter | /// Hovestrasse 14 | Andreas Braukmann | We do it with /// D-48351 Everswinkel | HRB: 1430, AG WAF | FreeBSD/SMP /// ------------------------------------------------------------------- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 20:42:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23139 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:42:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23119 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:42:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4037.ime.net [209.90.195.47]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA29221; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:42:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981222232943.00c1f800@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:36:39 -0500 To: David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-Reply-To: <199812230021.SAA09492@n4hhe.ampr.org> References: <4.1.19981222144311.00ad23d0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:21 PM 12/22/98 -0600, David Kelly wrote: > >First you claim you are Microsoft-bound for work purposes, then you ask >about "Need For Speed 3" and "Turok 2", so one can understand why >protecting one's job is so important. All those games to play. All I >get at work is the flight simulator and cycles games that ship on SGI >systems. >:-) Well unfortunately I'm 17 years old and have a general habit of using this vast network structure here at home for something other than moving code around.. :-) There's 1800 people in the town I work in, and these are the same people that said "You have Apple II's, why can't you hook THOSE to the internet?".. I think I'm going to have to argue in order to get a SPARC in there. >Acrobat Reader is free. Linux version works well with FreeBSD. >Ghostscript does a pretty fair job generating PDF. Sure, Reader is free.. However Adobe Acrobat itself (Distiller, et al) is not.. My FreeBSD machine mostly runs web servers, and cgi's I've done for that. It doesn't serve a worthy purpose to the users of the network, with exception to running a hacked copy of Netscape Messenger Express for school-wide E-Mail. See, there's "Work" and then there's "Where I work".. - All Windows (With exception to the FreeBSD box) and how it's going to stay. Unfortunately the school sees the idea that machines come with productivity suites, and OSes, and best of all Smartstuff's Foolproof Security, as important. Windows unfortunately is what these kids will leave the 8th grade using, and also will continue using through their Senior year of High School. It is also very likely what they are going to be using in the work force, if they continue to reside in Maine. This territory is vastly underdeveloped. There's no such thing as a Classified ad for a Unix tech here, or any sort of Network job that does not require Microsoft and/or Novell certification. That's just how it is. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 21:15:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27173 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:15:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt3-29.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27148 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:15:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA09822 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:07:59 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199812230107.TAA09822@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-reply-to: Message from Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai of "Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:44:58 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:07:59 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: Drew Baxter wrote: > If you can get 85+% of the software on the market to work on FreeBSD, and > support my Voodoo2 card, I'll switch.. Excuses, excuses, excuses. 85% percent of software doesn't support your Voodoo2 card, so the requirement that 85% of software support FreeBSD and the Voodoo2 card is extremely unlikely. If it were to come to pass, Jordan Hubbard would have done what Bill Gates couldn't do. Not to mention less than 85% of all software runs on Microsoft hosts. Apple, Unix, and mainframes have at least 20% of the software market. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 21:34:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29515 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:34:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29507 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:34:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4037.ime.net [209.90.195.47]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA05504; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:34:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981223001616.009eb140@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:32:19 -0500 To: David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-Reply-To: <199812230107.TAA09822@n4hhe.ampr.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:07 PM 12/22/98 -0600, David Kelly wrote: >> If you can get 85+% of the software on the market to work on FreeBSD, and >> support my Voodoo2 card, I'll switch.. > >Excuses, excuses, excuses. 85% percent of software doesn't support your >Voodoo2 card, so the requirement that 85% of software support FreeBSD >and the Voodoo2 card is extremely unlikely. If it were to come to pass, >Jordan Hubbard would have done what Bill Gates couldn't do. Did I say it does? I said if I could GET 85% of the software on the market AND my voodoo2 card.. They are separate entities in my sentence.. I'm also referring to the regular PC market.. I don't see me (nor many people in my economic class) to be able to have an SGI or an UltraSparc or anything like that for a home machine. This is a software creation place, but this is also a place of demonstration.. If anything I'm trying to sell myself in demonstration. It's increasingly difficult to try to sell on a platform that the 'average consumer' (keep in mind this is referencing the average consumer in Maine, USA), actually cares about. Windows, people here can understand. FreeBSD, UNIX, Linux (although media lately on that word could spark something), AIX, SGI, SPARC, SUN, all those words, are not really known or have little relevance on the 'average consumer' in Maine. As a network developer in an Educational Institution (Public, at that), I get the wonderous joy of being a consultant too. "FreeBSD", will not sell as a buzz word to these people, but "Windows" will. People that refuse to touch computers in that town know what Windows is.. If you're looking for me to say that I'd wipe all 17.7 gig of storage I have on this machine and install FreeBSD, you won't see that. Yes, I have a FreeBSD machine running X here, as well as my larger machine at work. Yes, I like using both of them. Yes, I am in a Microsoft world due to work. But there are several thousand other people that go to work each morning to a Windows-based PC, so if anything, I'm a sell-out or a follower.. But that's the difference, if I was a leader, I'd have a choice. >Not to mention less than 85% of all software runs on Microsoft hosts. >Apple, Unix, and mainframes have at least 20% of the software market. Again, PC market. K-8 school in Eastern/Central Maine USA in a town with 1800 people doesn't care about Mainframe or Unix, in many cases not even Apple.. If someone ever manages to get WINE to be neck and neck with whatever Windows version comes out (as far as application compatiblity only), then I'll switch. In the meantime, the words are "Office", "Foolproof", and "Encarta"... 2 of the 3 ARE Microsoft products, the 3rd only runs on Windows or Macintosh.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter OneNetwork Exchange Network Development, Orland Consolidated School http://www.droo.orland.me.us 207-942-0275 / 207-471-2719 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 21:53:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01518 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:53:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01504 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:53:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.62]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA66B0; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:52:58 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981222232943.00c1f800@genesis.ispace.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:59:28 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Dec-98 Drew Baxter wrote: > At 06:21 PM 12/22/98 -0600, David Kelly wrote: > See, there's "Work" and then there's "Where I work".. - All Windows (With > exception to the FreeBSD box) and how it's going to stay. Unfortunately > the school sees the idea that machines come with productivity suites, and > OSes, and best of all Smartstuff's Foolproof Security, as important. > Windows unfortunately is what these kids will leave the 8th grade using, > and also will continue using through their Senior year of High School. It > is also very likely what they are going to be using in the work force, if > they continue to reside in Maine. *sigh* This world is doomed =) > This territory is vastly underdeveloped. There's no such thing as a > Classified ad for a Unix tech here, or any sort of Network job that does > not require Microsoft and/or Novell certification. That's just how it is. Well just to add the usual it-doesn't-matter 0.02 cents: at the place where I work, I am one of the three network specialists and then there's this guy whom we contract. This guy, some of core knows him and he knows every major other guru out there in the UNIX world (I am still amazed over that), is the kind of guy that never tires to explain, but boy does he know a lot about UNIX and IP. I have seen him outwit/outsmart every single NT administrator we have at our job (we are the Novell dudes, so... ;). So ye see, it's all about the knowledge actually, and I have seen by now, that most courses concerning MCSE and MCNE don't really hold their feet in the ground against guys like him (sure there are always exceptions). side-note: Novell and FreeBSD works great next to each other =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 22:05:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02796 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:05:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from funbox.demon.co.uk (funbox.demon.co.uk [158.152.85.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA02786 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:05:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk) From: tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk Received: by funbox.demon.co.uk (mail 1.50) id tim.3680431D.00.500C; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:10:53 +0000 Message-ID: To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:00:08 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Phone rates Lines: 18 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens wrote: > So why then does BT still seem to have a stranglehold... Tactics, which are similar to those you can see in the cell-phone arena. Result: maximise the profits, and screw the consumer. It's got to the point where we (my wife & I) find it useful having 3 phone accounts (BT, Cable & Wireless, Orange), although (so far) we use only one for accessing the ISP. Tim. (PS. It's redundant to Cc me.) -- Tim Jackson London, England. ________________________________________________________________________ Please reply to t j @ f u n b o x . d e m o n . c o . u k To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 22:07:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02976 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:07:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA02970 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:07:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4037.ime.net [209.90.195.47]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA08837; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:06:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981223005658.00b44ee0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:04:36 -0500 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981222232943.00c1f800@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:59 AM 12/23/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > >*sigh* This world is doomed =) > Nah, it's just we're technologically inept :) Even though I have been doing the computer thing for 14 years. > >Well just to add the usual it-doesn't-matter 0.02 cents: at the place where I >work, I am one of the three network specialists and then there's this guy >whom we >contract. This guy, some of core knows him and he knows every major other guru >out there in the UNIX world (I am still amazed over that), is the kind of guy >that never tires to explain, but boy does he know a lot about UNIX and IP. I >have >seen him outwit/outsmart every single NT administrator we have at our job >(we are >the Novell dudes, so... ;). So ye see, it's all about the knowledge >actually, and >I have seen by now, that most courses concerning MCSE and MCNE don't really >hold >their feet in the ground against guys like him (sure there are always >exceptions). > >side-note: Novell and FreeBSD works great next to each other =) I didn't say I agree with the MCSE programs and the CNE/CNA Novell programs. I could have gone for my MCSE a while ago, I just don't see the point in paying a few grand (I think something to the tune of 5 grand) to take certification on something that isn't going to directly affect where I am. I've worked at the school for 3 years so far, and just finally now I'm actually going to see pay from it. If they pay me 18,500$ a year, then I'm happy in that position.. Then I can always migrate toward Mass, and work toward the 45-65K/yr for a 'UNIX Geek'. Consider where I work now a 'proving ground'. Surprisingly my 250 user copy of Intranetware (of which was a lovely 1000 dollars from Novell) came with a CD for Unix services. All in all Novell is an interesting NOS, the problem I see is, it can be rather complex. Perhaps that's why people go to NT, anyone can point and click, and a basic network admin can develop a small business network with ease. My Netware Experience was so-so, I found running Samba a little more realistic for the cause really, the cause being file sharing. I'd be interested to hear why you chose to be a Novell guy instead of something else though. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 22:14:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03752 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:14:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03686 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:14:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA12653; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:13:47 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981222231027.04013c40@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:12:45 -0700 To: Drew Baxter , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai From: Brett Glass Subject: Certification (Was: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981223005658.00b44ee0@genesis.ispace.com> References: <4.1.19981222232943.00c1f800@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:04 AM 12/23/98 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >I didn't say I agree with the MCSE programs and the CNE/CNA Novell >programs. I could have gone for my MCSE a while ago, I just don't see the >point in paying a few grand (I think something to the tune of 5 grand) to >take certification on something that isn't going to directly affect where I >am. It doesn't. "Certification" is intended by software vendors to serve one purpose and one purpose only: to achieve technological lock-in. The fact that someone might learn something generally useful in the process is actually secondary. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 22 23:36:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10241 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:36:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.inx.de (www.inx.de [195.21.255.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA10219 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:35:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jnickelsen@acm.org) Received: by www.inx.de (Smail3.2.0.96inx) from [195.21.245.118] (195.21.245.118) with esmtp id ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:35:51 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: jn@berlin.snafu.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <367ED766.C2941435@uk.radan.com> References: <4.1.19981221111410.06cbb650@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:34:41 +0100 To: Mark Ovens From: Juergen Nickelsen Subject: Re: Phone rates Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 0:19 +0100 22.12.1998, Mark Ovens wrote on freebsd-chat: >Part of the problem is that BT still own all the major inter-city >trunks, so even if you use Mercury making a call from, say, London to >Manchester still has to use BT lines, which Mercury has to pay for. In Germany, the german railway and the power companies (also monopolies in their area) have thrown in a handful of fibers into every hole they have been digging for the last several years. When the telecommunications monoply of the Deutsche Telekom fell, their daughter companies had their networks ready. They are offering leased lines as well as long distance calls and are actively competing with the Deutsche Telekom, who had to lower their long-distance rates significantly. As mentioned before, this had no influence on the rates for local calls. Some years ago, the Deutsche Telekom even increased the local call rates by about 100 percent(*) to prepare for the upcoming competition for long-distance calls. (*) From 0.23 DEM (0.144 US$) per 6 minute "unit" to 0.12 DEM (0.075 US$) per 1.5 minute "unit" in the daytime. Greetings, Juergen. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNoAQVfxneYZkCUPbEQJmbgCfU6QZ0Pv7qGYdDVdQQCONfT9jtX4AoPjG BkYUxYQ6LiEmsbZpQWET3mNW =zH5W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 01:48:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21535 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:48:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21493 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:48:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24318; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:48:39 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA29017; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:48:33 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981223104832.J24362@follo.net> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:48:32 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: David Kelly , Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger References: <199812230014.SAA09471@n4hhe.ampr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812230014.SAA09471@n4hhe.ampr.org>; from David Kelly on Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 06:14:59PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 06:14:59PM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > Guess one of the things I really miss in Eudora was the ability to > re-wrap quoted email text and retain the "> " on the left side. On > the Mac one holds down the option key and selects what was "Wrap > Text"... I think. Memory fades. No wait, first you unwrap it and it > leaves one quote string at the begining of the new paragraphs, then > you wrap again and it reapplies to quote string as appropriate. Look ma, an automatically re-wrapped paragraph _with_ quote indicator, done on FreeBSD. Eivind. This message brought to you by mutt, M-q and Emacs, the editor with everything and the kitchen sink. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 01:56:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21963 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:56:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21955 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:56:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24463; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:55:45 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA29062; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:55:45 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981223105545.K24362@follo.net> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:55:45 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Brett Glass , Drew Baxter , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly Subject: Re: Certification (Was: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger) References: <4.1.19981222232943.00c1f800@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981223005658.00b44ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981222231027.04013c40@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981222231027.04013c40@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 11:12:45PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 11:12:45PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:04 AM 12/23/98 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > > >I didn't say I agree with the MCSE programs and the CNE/CNA Novell > >programs. I could have gone for my MCSE a while ago, I just don't see the > >point in paying a few grand (I think something to the tune of 5 grand) to > >take certification on something that isn't going to directly affect where I > >am. > > It doesn't. "Certification" is intended by software vendors to serve one > purpose and one purpose only: to achieve technological lock-in. The fact > that someone might learn something generally useful in the process is > actually secondary. I've been considering becoming an MSCE just so I can have authority when I tell customers 'This totally sucks - you need a Unix solution.' :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 02:07:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA23250 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:07:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA23223 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:07:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id CAA25758; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:07:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812231007.CAA25758@mailgate.cadence.com> Received: from symnt3.Cadence.COM(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma914407640.025745; Wed, 23 Dec 98 02:07:20 -0800 Received: from pc287-cam.cadence.com (d194032096069.Cadence.COM [194.32.96.69]) by symnt3.Cadence.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id XS4YHFK9; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:07:51 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:06:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Reply-to: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19981223104832.J24362@follo.net> References: <199812230014.SAA09471@n4hhe.ampr.org>; from David Kelly on Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 06:14:59PM -0600 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 06:14:59PM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > > Guess one of the things I really miss in Eudora was the ability to > > re-wrap quoted email text and retain the "> " on the left side. On > > the Mac one holds down the option key and selects what was "Wrap > > Text"... I think. Memory fades. No wait, first you unwrap it and it > > leaves one quote string at the begining of the new paragraphs, then > > you wrap again and it reapplies to quote string as appropriate. > > Look ma, an automatically re-wrapped paragraph _with_ quote > indicator, done on FreeBSD. > > Eivind. > > This message brought to you by mutt, M-q and Emacs, the editor with > everything and the kitchen sink. Or vile with CTRL-A}, or XFmail or ... Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 02:25:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA25200 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:25:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA25190 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:25:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA24946; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:25:10 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA29205; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:25:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981223112505.M24362@follo.net> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:25:05 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger References: <199812230014.SAA09471@n4hhe.ampr.org>; <19981223104832.J24362@follo.net> <199812231007.CAA25758@mailgate.cadence.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812231007.CAA25758@mailgate.cadence.com>; from Duncan Barclay on Wed, Dec 23, 1998 at 10:06:50AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Dec 23, 1998 at 10:06:50AM +0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 06:14:59PM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > > > Guess one of the things I really miss in Eudora was the ability to > > > re-wrap quoted email text and retain the "> " on the left side. On > > > the Mac one holds down the option key and selects what was "Wrap > > > Text"... I think. Memory fades. No wait, first you unwrap it and it > > > leaves one quote string at the begining of the new paragraphs, then > > > you wrap again and it reapplies to quote string as appropriate. > > > > Look ma, an automatically re-wrapped paragraph _with_ quote > > indicator, done on FreeBSD. > > > > Eivind. > > > > This message brought to you by mutt, M-q and Emacs, the editor with > > everything and the kitchen sink. > > Or vile with CTRL-A}, or XFmail or ... No, definately not. That message was not done in vile or XFmail :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 05:38:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17246 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 05:38:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA17228 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 05:38:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA48478; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:38:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: David Kelly Cc: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger References: <199812230014.SAA09471@n4hhe.ampr.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 23 Dec 1998 14:38:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: David Kelly's message of "Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:14:59 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly writes: > Does XFmail allow mail folders within mail folders? ~/Mail/freebsd is > the root of where I sort FreeBSD list mail. Apparently I have 103 > directories under ~/Mail (but only 98 rules in ~/.maildelivery) so a > linear list in XFMail isn't pleasant. Noticed XFMail put + signs in > front of folders but I couldn't open them. I tried using mutt for some time, but finally arrived at the conclusion that for sorting mail into a hierarchy of folders, there's nothing quite like Emcas + Gnus with the nnml backend. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 07:51:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01574 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:51:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01567 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:51:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.166]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA5A26; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:51:44 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981223001616.009eb140@genesis.ispace.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:58:12 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Dec-98 Drew Baxter wrote: > At 07:07 PM 12/22/98 -0600, David Kelly wrote: >>> If you can get 85+% of the software on the market to work on FreeBSD, and >>> support my Voodoo2 card, I'll switch.. >> >>Excuses, excuses, excuses. 85% percent of software doesn't support your >>Voodoo2 card, so the requirement that 85% of software support FreeBSD >>and the Voodoo2 card is extremely unlikely. If it were to come to pass, >>Jordan Hubbard would have done what Bill Gates couldn't do. > > Did I say it does? I said if I could GET 85% of the software on the market > AND my voodoo2 card.. They are separate entities in my sentence.. I'm also > referring to the regular PC market.. I don't see me (nor many people in my > economic class) to be able to have an SGI or an UltraSparc or anything like > that for a home machine. Found a link today that explained how to get Doom, Quake and Quake II running under FreeBSD... Handy things to know =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 07:51:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01676 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:51:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01585 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:51:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.166]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6BE5; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:51:46 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199812230014.SAA09471@n4hhe.ampr.org> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:58:14 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: David Kelly Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Dec-98 David Kelly wrote: > Does XFmail allow mail folders within mail folders? ~/Mail/freebsd is > the root of where I sort FreeBSD list mail. Apparently I have 103 > directories under ~/Mail (but only 98 rules in ~/.maildelivery) so a > linear list in XFMail isn't pleasant. Noticed XFMail put + signs in > front of folders but I couldn't open them. [chronias] asmodai $ pwd /usr/home/asmodai/Mail [chronias] asmodai $ ls FreeBSD/ 1 3 Advocacy Hackers SCSI 10 4 Announce Hardware Security 11 5 Bugs Mobile Stable 12 6 CVS-all Networking picoBSD 13 7 Chat Newbies 14 8 Current Ports 2 9 Docs Questions These are the folder I filter them in to. The numbers are the majordomo mails I safeguard in the top level folder. NOTE: a subfolder may NOT have a SPACE! These are MH boxes btw. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 07:51:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01752 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:51:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01651 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:51:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.166]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6BE9; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:51:48 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981223005658.00b44ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:58:17 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Dec-98 Drew Baxter wrote: > I didn't say I agree with the MCSE programs and the CNE/CNA Novell > programs. I could have gone for my MCSE a while ago, I just don't see the > point in paying a few grand (I think something to the tune of 5 grand) to > take certification on something that isn't going to directly affect where I > am. I've worked at the school for 3 years so far, and just finally now I'm > actually going to see pay from it. If they pay me 18,500$ a year, then I'm > happy in that position.. Then I can always migrate toward Mass, and work > toward the 45-65K/yr for a 'UNIX Geek'. Consider where I work now a > 'proving ground'. > > Surprisingly my 250 user copy of Intranetware (of which was a lovely 1000 > dollars from Novell) came with a CD for Unix services. All in all Novell > is an interesting NOS, the problem I see is, it can be rather complex. > Perhaps that's why people go to NT, anyone can point and click, and a basic > network admin can develop a small business network with ease. My Netware > Experience was so-so, I found running Samba a little more realistic for the > cause really, the cause being file sharing. NetWare found it's core with UnixWare and NetWare, they decided upon some integration prior to selling off UnixWare to SCO. The lamest thing is that Novell is still so close to DOS that even NLMs (NetWare Loadable Modules) are still 8.3 fixed. Also, despite it's multitasking/multithreading model it doesn't have a kill equivalent command. > I'd be interested to hear why you chose to be a Novell guy instead of > something else though. OK, weird story... I used to hack away as a kid on a Commodore 64 back in the old days. When the rest of the world started to use PC's, I stuck to 95% Amiga and 5% Apple. Windows (2.x/3.x) sucked in those days compared to these two. Then after some years I finally found out that CS studies existed, else I would have became a DTP artist. So I started, last year with my study and met this thing called Solaris. I found a part-time job in february at the HQ of a national temporary employment agency/job coaching company. I started to hate my education more and more (ye see, in the Netherlands they are merging most real computer science educations with more and more economical crap), and as soon as I got verified that networks would constitute for about 1% max for the remainder of my 3 years at that school I decided to quit and started to work for the company I worked for as part-timer. I am now one of their network/security lads and I have to say that these last 6 months taught me way more than school could ever teach me. I will start evening courses somewhere in September just to get that paper though. Back in school I had, during the first 2-3 months, the idea to become MCSE. Nowadays I hate most Microsoft crap with a dedication. The reason? Because I have seen things like Linux and *BSD's and _know_ that MS stuff it unacceptable. You should hear us when we are forced to work with Word because that's what our co-workers use. Our FreeBSD boxen have nice names too: killbill, devil, diehard, freebee, barkley. And Novell is the NOS that's pre-dominant in our national network (thank god). I have seen the NT boxen being used for out intranet and it ain't pretty. The Apache server on freebee surpasses it by a factor 4. I have to say that Novell rocks when it's not using SAP/RIP, especially not with a WAN like ours (450-500 servers). --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 08:16:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04738 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:16:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04730 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:16:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA08978; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:16:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981223111320.00c403c0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:13:47 -0500 To: Eivind Eklund , Brett Glass , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Certification (Was: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly In-Reply-To: <19981223105545.K24362@follo.net> References: <4.1.19981222231027.04013c40@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981222232943.00c1f800@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981223005658.00b44ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981222231027.04013c40@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:55 AM 12/23/98 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: >On Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 11:12:45PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >> At 01:04 AM 12/23/98 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >> >> >I didn't say I agree with the MCSE programs and the CNE/CNA Novell >> >programs. I could have gone for my MCSE a while ago, I just don't see the >> >point in paying a few grand (I think something to the tune of 5 grand) to >> >take certification on something that isn't going to directly affect where I >> >am. >> >> It doesn't. "Certification" is intended by software vendors to serve one >> purpose and one purpose only: to achieve technological lock-in. The fact >> that someone might learn something generally useful in the process is >> actually secondary. > >I've been considering becoming an MSCE just so I can have authority >when I tell customers 'This totally sucks - you need a Unix solution.' >:-) Hey that's not a half bad idea.. But I'm not apt to paying 5000 non-refundable US dollars to prove a point that many people know. :-) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 08:26:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05954 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:26:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA05944 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:26:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11519; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:26:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981223111457.009f4ee0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:24:16 -0500 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981223005658.00b44ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:58 PM 12/23/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > >NetWare found it's core with UnixWare and NetWare, they decided upon some >integration prior to selling off UnixWare to SCO. The lamest thing is that >Novell >is still so close to DOS that even NLMs (NetWare Loadable Modules) are still >8.3 >fixed. Also, despite it's multitasking/multithreading model it doesn't have a >kill equivalent command. > Novell's NLM's are located in the FAT partition if I remember right, of which it executes from. so C:\NWSERVER would be where they are. Perhaps THAT hsa to do with the 8.3 fixed. >OK, weird story... > >I used to hack away as a kid on a Commodore 64 back in the old days. When >the rest >of the world started to use PC's, I stuck to 95% Amiga and 5% Apple. Windows >(2.x/3.x) sucked in those days compared to these two. With me it was age 3 with the Commodore.. Then the Mac age (hm that was 7 years ago maybe), then the Windows age (about 6 years ago), and the FreeBSD age (and AIX, and a few others) (about 4 years ago).. Rather interesting timeline when I look back at it. Never indulged into the Amiga strata though. >And Novell is the NOS that's pre-dominant in our national network (thank >god). I >have seen the NT boxen being used for out intranet and it ain't pretty. The >Apache server on freebee surpasses it by a factor 4. I have to say that aNovell >rocks when it's not using SAP/RIP, especially not with a WAN like ours (450-500 >servers). Microsoft was going to move Hotmail over to NT but found that it couldn't handle the haul. As it goes I think Windows has a 'socket limit' as far as how many open connections it can have inbound or outbound. Pretty inane if you ask me. As it goes, my PII-333 I have running NT 4 Workstation (to do Netscape Messaging Server and Proxy Server) takes forever in a day to boot up, let alone do anything. This is not a good thing since it has 128MB in it. The PII-333 I have running FreeBSD is vastly faster, running 20 virtual web servers under Apache, lots of code I'm working on, things like that. It only has 32mb, but beats the hell out of the NT machine, even in bootup.. The point is clear, something Free is effectively better for playing intra/internet server than Windows.. The problem is, trying to convince people of that. Would appear that Whistle has kinda a cool idea on dropping people onto the net using a BSD base. Some more technologies like this, perhaps a company that develops an overdramatized X interface and web interface for management, would take the command line out of FreeBSD, for those who are frightened to try something different than the Microsoft Bandwagon.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 10:28:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20559 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:28:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20550 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:28:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.82]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA31CC; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:28:30 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981223111457.009f4ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:34:57 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Dec-98 Drew Baxter wrote: > At 04:58 PM 12/23/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > Novell's NLM's are located in the FAT partition if I remember right, of > which it executes from. so C:\NWSERVER would be where they are. Perhaps > THAT hsa to do with the 8.3 fixed. Not quite... True there are some NLMs in \NWSERVER, but the majority of them reside in SYS: and are thus using Novell's own FAT-like FS. > Microsoft was going to move Hotmail over to NT but found that it couldn't > handle the haul. As it goes I think Windows has a 'socket limit' as far as > how many open connections it can have inbound or outbound. Pretty inane if > you ask me. Well, it remains Windows =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 10:30:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20764 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:30:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20758 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:30:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from [158.152.46.40] (helo=ragnet.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zst35-0006iL-00; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:30:19 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0zsisQ-0006fR-00; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:38:38 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <367FF436.96D9CBC6@uk.radan.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:38:37 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: Phone rates Cc: Brett Glass , tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 22-Dec-98 Mark Ovens wrote: > > > Duncan Barclay wrote: >> >> On 21-Dec-98 Mark Ovens wrote: >> > >> > >> > Brett Glass wrote: >> >> >> >> At 11:15 AM 12/21/98 +0000, tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk wrote: >> >> >> >> >Capitalism may reign supreme over on your side of the water, but >> >> >British Telecom is unfortunately rather too good at sucking in the >> >> >profits over here... >> >> >> >> I understand that there are two others: Mercury and another. Are >> >> they undercutting BT or just going along for the ride? >> >> >> > >> > Part of the problem is that BT still own all the major inter-city >> > trunks, so even if you use Mercury making a call from, say, London to >> > Manchester still has to use BT lines, which Mercury has to pay for. So >> > BT still holds the upper hand. >> > >> >> Actually, this isn't right. >> >> There are still a lot of BT only trunks but Mercury >> have their own or use trunks laid down next to railway lines by British R >> ail (second largest trunk network in the UK). Energis and Scottish Telecom >> have >> thier own lines, Energis wraps fibre optic cable around its parents power >> transmission lines and have UK wide coverage. Not sure how Scottish power >> does >> it, it may be the same as Energis. >> > > I stand corrected. So why then does BT still seem to have a stranglehold > over telecomms? It still has the majority of the "Local Loop", i.e. the cabling from exchange to the house. Cable TV companies are getting some of it and some went wireless with Ionica who have just gone bust. Ionica was a shame, partly because they own their HQ is the building next to the one I work in and my company designed a lot of the kit and partly because they were shat upon by the venture capitalists who didn't release a pot of money. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 10:39:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21707 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:39:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21697 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:39:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paulg@interlog.com) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (paulg@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA11160; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:39:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:39:30 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Griffith To: Drew Baxter cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981222144311.00ad23d0@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > > > >Whatever gets the job done? Cross-platform: PDF, PS =) > > > > Uhm PDF is not a cheap solution, not when Adobe Acrobat is a good 300 dollars. > What about ghostscript that outputs to a pdf file, or via ps2pdf ??? Paul Griffith <> paulg@interlog.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 11:26:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27096 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:26:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27090 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:26:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zssmn-00045C-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:13:30 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA04005 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:13:05 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15135; Wed, 23 Dec 98 18:13:01 GMT Message-Id: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:49:25 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Crazy Laws Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I always thought Scandinavia was a free and easy-going place. I'm not so sure after I spotted this on Teletext... MOTHER JAILED OVER SON'S NAME "A mother of 14 children was jailed for 2 days because she refused to change the name she picked for her young son. Norway has strict laws regulating names, including lists of acceptable first and last names. Kirsti Larsen, 46, said she named her son Gesher after she dreamed the child should be named Bridge - gesher means bridge in Hebrew." I guess Dag-Erling and Eivind must be on the approved list ;-) -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 11:42:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28697 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:42:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28692 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:42:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.82]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1F92; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:42:16 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:48:45 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mark Ovens Subject: RE: Crazy Laws Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Dec-98 Mark Ovens wrote: > I always thought Scandinavia was a free and easy-going place. > I'm not so sure after I spotted this on Teletext... In comparison with the US, it is... Trust me, I love Scandanavia each time I visit it =) > I guess Dag-Erling and Eivind must be on the > approved list ;-) Well, given the fact that the language-branches of Scandanavian tongues, Dutch, Suid-Afrikaans, English, Gaelic, German are all descendants of one common tree, that would make their names as normal as your Mark ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve (taking a very serious attitude to a very lighthearted post, all in good jest offcourse) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 12:23:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03187 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:23:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03181 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:23:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09160; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:23:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981223151750.00bac460@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:20:52 -0500 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981223111457.009f4ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:34 PM 12/23/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >Not quite... True there are some NLMs in \NWSERVER, but the majority of them >reside in SYS: and are thus using Novell's own FAT-like FS. hmm. Wonder if this was fixed in Netware 5.. I have no desire to upgrade really, not when I paid 1000 bucks for the full 250 user kit.. It'd cost more in upgrade fees. >Well, it remains Windows =) Sure it is.. But then again, it's Microsoft :) Personally I think we should go back to the GUI addon chip that plugs into the Timex Sinclair.. I gotta say, that had Joystick support, something Windows never had (except via 3rd party stuff). And it's pretty damn colorful and clear for a TV display. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 12:25:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03774 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:25:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03769 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:25:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4002.ime.net [209.90.195.12]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09619; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:25:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981223152058.00af9250@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:22:50 -0500 To: Paul Griffith From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, David Kelly In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981222144311.00ad23d0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:39 PM 12/23/98 -0500, Paul Griffith wrote: > >What about ghostscript that outputs to a pdf file, or via ps2pdf ??? > Mastering apps was the big issue.. Unfortunately in a school setting everyone is hooked on Word or Works, and indefinitely on Windows. Although we regularly have Macintosh VS Windows wars, for some reason we have some rather devout Mac-u-bators. Not sure why that is, but aparantely they'd take a bullet to sell a few of them :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 12:58:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07547 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:58:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07542 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:58:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zsvME-0001zJ-00; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:58:15 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA04248; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:57:47 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-2) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00393; Wed, 23 Dec 98 20:57:45 GMT Message-Id: <368150B9.56152802@uk.radan.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:21:13 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crazy Laws References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > On 23-Dec-98 Mark Ovens wrote: > > I always thought Scandinavia was a free and easy-going place. > > I'm not so sure after I spotted this on Teletext... > > In comparison with the US, it is... Trust me, I love Scandanavia each time I > visit it =) > > > I guess Dag-Erling and Eivind must be on the > > approved list ;-) > > Well, given the fact that the language-branches of Scandanavian tongues, Dutch, > Suid-Afrikaans, English, Gaelic, German are all descendants of one common tree, > that would make their names as normal as your Mark ;) > I wasn't for one minute suggesting that they were abnormal. > --- > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain > asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... > Network/Security Specialist > BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve > > (taking a very serious attitude to a very lighthearted post, all in good jest > offcourse) -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 14:04:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13614 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:04:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13609 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:04:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA50036; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:04:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crazy Laws References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 23 Dec 1998 23:04:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai's message of "Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:48:45 +0100 (CET)" Message-ID: Lines: 55 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: > On 23-Dec-98 Mark Ovens wrote: > > I guess Dag-Erling and Eivind must be on the > > approved list ;-) > Well, given the fact that the language-branches of Scandanavian > tongues, Dutch, Suid-Afrikaans, English, Gaelic, German are all > descendants of one common tree, that would make their names as > normal as your Mark ;) I think you're going too far back in time there - while all the languages you mention descend from indo-european, there is an important distinction between Germanic and Latin languages. Mark is a latin name, while Dag, Erling and Eivind are germanic names. The reason why Mark (Markus, Marcus, Marc, Marco etc.) is such a widespread name has a very simple explanation: it is the name of one of the twelve disciples... No disciple was named Dag, Erling or Eivind (Eyvind, Øyvind, Øivind). ISTR there is a saint named Eivind or some variation thereof, but none named Dag or Erling. This may explain that there are approximately 25,000 Norwegians whose first name begins with Eivind or some variation thereof (I think it's a pretty common middle name too), but only about 10,000 whose name begins with Dag, and two thirds of them (including me) have a compound name. There are also about 10,000 people named Erling, and one third of them have a compound name. As to the reason why name laws are so strict in Norway: Norwegians are taught that individuality is a mortal sin, and the government is hell- bent on reducing symptoms of individuality in any way they can: if you can't teach kids that they shouldn't laugh at people with strange names, disallow strange names. If you can't teach kids to accept that others may be smarter than them, make sure none of them get too smart for the likes of their peers. This is what makes a good socialist country. There is something called "Janteloven" ("The law of Jante", from Aksel Sandemoses book "A refugee crosses his tracks") which goes like: * Thou shalt not think that thou art special * Thou shalt not think that thou art as wise as us * Thou shalt not think that thou art wiser than us * Thou shalt not imagine that thou art better than us * Thou shalt not think that thou knowest more than us * Thou shalt not think that thou art more than us * Thou shalt not think that thou art good for anything * Thou shalt not laugh at us * Thou shalt not think that anyone cares about thou * Thou shalt not think that thou canst teach us anything Unfortunately, at some point during the reconstruction after the war, someone must have confused that book with the Norwegian constitution and decided that they would build the country on these principles. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 15:26:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22074 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:26:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22065 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:26:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id AAA21549 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:26:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 2DF98155A; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:58:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:58:09 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Message-ID: <19981223235809.B29194@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19981223005658.00b44ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981223111457.009f4ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981223111457.009f4ee0@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Wed, Dec 23, 1998 at 11:24:16AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4871 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Drew Baxter: > handle the haul. As it goes I think Windows has a 'socket limit' as far as > how many open connections it can have inbound or outbound. Pretty inane if > you ask me. It was only in one of beta of NT4. The limitation is now only in the Licence (after much lobbying from Tim O'Reilly -- yes, that O'Reilly guy) and is pretty much the sum of the differences between NTS and NTW (there are differences in how the OS is tuned but the code is the same). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 15:36:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22058 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:26:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22016 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:25:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id AAA21537; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:25:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id C68DC155B; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:55:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:55:05 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: Drew Baxter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NLMs (Was: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger) Message-ID: <19981223235505.A29194@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Drew Baxter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19981223005658.00b44ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai on Wed, Dec 23, 1998 at 04:58:17PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4871 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai: > is still so close to DOS that even NLMs (NetWare Loadable Modules) are > still 8.3 That is the least of the problems with NLM. The two main ones IMO are that they run in ring 0 (making them closer to KLD modules than libs) and that they're a mess (all the dependancies, order of loading and so on) like Winlose DLLs. Example: we had a panic on our main Netware at work two days ago. It was the SNMP module (why the Hell do this thing have to run in ring 0 !?). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 15:56:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25674 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:56:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25667 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:56:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA09600; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:26:27 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA14454; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:26:28 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981224102628.S12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:26:28 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Wed, Dec 23, 1998 at 02:49:25PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 23 December 1998 at 14:49:25 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > I always thought Scandinavia was a free and easy-going place. > I'm not so sure after I spotted this on Teletext... > > MOTHER JAILED OVER SON'S NAME > > "A mother of 14 children was jailed for 2 days > because she refused to change the name she picked > for her young son. > > Norway has strict laws regulating names, including > lists of acceptable first and last names. > > Kirsti Larsen, 46, said she named her son Gesher > after she dreamed the child should be named Bridge > - gesher means bridge in Hebrew." Germany has strict laws on this, too. They also have strict laws on surnames, and refused to allow my wife (French) to adopt my surname when we married, claiming that the French would not allow it. My wife got an official statement to the contrary from the French Embassy, but they didn't accept that. My daughter was born in Germany, though she's not a German national, and I was damned if I was going to let them dictate her name. Unfortunately, it turned out that the name we chose was on their list. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 16:07:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28044 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:07:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28005 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:07:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA20874; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:07:25 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981223170443.05bbf480@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:05:59 -0700 To: Greg Lehey , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) In-Reply-To: <19981224102628.S12346@freebie.lemis.com> References: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:26 AM 12/24/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> Kirsti Larsen, 46, said she named her son Gesher >> after she dreamed the child should be named Bridge >> - gesher means bridge in Hebrew." Sounds anti-Semitic to me. >My daughter was born in Germany, though she's not a German national, >and I was damned if I was going to let them dictate her name. >Unfortunately, it turned out that the name we chose was on their list. You vill name your daughter VHAT VE ZAY, und you vill LIKE it. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 16:38:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02785 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:38:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02780 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:38:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4033.ime.net [209.90.195.43]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04676; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:38:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981223192957.00ada960@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:35:48 -0500 To: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger In-Reply-To: <19981223235809.B29194@keltia.freenix.fr> References: <4.1.19981223111457.009f4ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981223005658.00b44ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981223111457.009f4ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:58 PM 12/23/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: >According to Drew Baxter: >> handle the haul. As it goes I think Windows has a 'socket limit' as far as >> how many open connections it can have inbound or outbound. Pretty inane if >> you ask me. > >It was only in one of beta of NT4. The limitation is now only in the >Licence (after much lobbying from Tim O'Reilly -- yes, that O'Reilly guy) >and is pretty much the sum of the differences between NTS and NTW (there >are differences in how the OS is tuned but the code is the same). Yeah I've noticed that the options it comes with for software is really the difference between NT Workstation and NT Server. If you take a look inside the service packs and all it looks that way too.. The speed problem is probably because the GUI takes up too much system resources on its own. Ironically if you could combine NT's networking with Win95's OS, it'd probably be a little more tolerable. But then again, that would ruin one of the selling features of Alternative OSes.. The whole relational speed thing alone boggles my mind.. Why someone would want to go get NT for a simple web server when they could do it for free, and with less of a machine. I think maybe some of it lies in "if it's free, it probably isn't any good." or "Where's the support?".. Maybe the introduction of FreeBSD Mall will fix this some.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 23 22:03:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14557 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:03:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14551 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:03:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.33]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2DCE; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:03:18 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <368150B9.56152802@uk.radan.com> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:09:49 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: Crazy Laws Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Dec-98 Mark Ovens wrote: > Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > I wasn't for one minute suggesting that they were abnormal. Mayhaps ye missed the last line of my .sig? Anyways... I find that in the Netherlands we have almost no restrictions. Just one time when parents wanted to name their kid XJ67-Z did the government say stop. >> --- >> Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain >> asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... >> Network/Security Specialist >> BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve >> >> (taking a very serious attitude to a very lighthearted post, all in good jest >> offcourse) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 00:25:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01810 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:25:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01802 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10200; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:57:32 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:57:32 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Drew Baxter Cc: David Kelly , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Message-ID: <19981224005732.A9588@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <4.1.19981222144311.00ad23d0@genesis.ispace.com> <199812230021.SAA09492@n4hhe.ampr.org> <4.1.19981222232943.00c1f800@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981222232943.00c1f800@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 11:36:39PM -0500 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 11:36:39PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > >Acrobat Reader is free. Linux version works well with FreeBSD. > >Ghostscript does a pretty fair job generating PDF. > > Sure, Reader is free.. However Adobe Acrobat itself (Distiller, et al) is > not.. FWIW, you can use TeX to generate PDF (complete with embedded links if you've got the HyperRef package installed). N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 01:41:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA08820 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 01:41:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terror.hungry.com (terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA08815 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 01:41:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fn@hungry.com) Received: (qmail 2602 invoked by uid 0); 24 Dec 1998 09:41:09 -0000 Received: from siren.hungry.com (undead@199.181.107.129) by terror.hungry.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 1998 09:41:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 5821 invoked by uid 507); 24 Dec 1998 09:41:32 -0000 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <19981224102628.S12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981223170443.05bbf480@mail.lariat.org> From: Faried Nawaz <__undead@knife.nilpotent.org> Date: 24 Dec 1998 01:41:32 -0800 In-Reply-To: brett@lariat.org's message of "23 Dec 1998 16:36:40 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) writes: At 10:26 AM 12/24/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> Kirsti Larsen, 46, said she named her son Gesher >> after she dreamed the child should be named Bridge >> - gesher means bridge in Hebrew." Sounds anti-Semitic to me. No more anti-Semetic than anti-Japanese, unless you can show that Japanese names are allowed while Semitic ones aren't. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 02:35:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA13432 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:35:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA13424 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:35:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA74534; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:33:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Brett Glass Cc: Greg Lehey , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981223170443.05bbf480@mail.lariat.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 24 Dec 1998 11:33:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: Brett Glass's message of "Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:05:59 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > At 10:26 AM 12/24/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > Kirsti Larsen, 46, said she named her son Gesher > > > after she dreamed the child should be named Bridge > > > - gesher means bridge in Hebrew." > Sounds anti-Semitic to me. No. They wouldn't have accepted "bridge" either, because it's not on their list. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 04:06:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22792 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:06:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22787 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:06:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zt9WT-0000oM-00; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:05:45 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA02413; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:05:17 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00312; Thu, 24 Dec 98 12:05:10 GMT Message-Id: <36822D20.DCF23B22@uk.radan.com> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:01:36 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> <19981224102628.S12346@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Wednesday, 23 December 1998 at 14:49:25 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > I always thought Scandinavia was a free and easy-going place. > > I'm not so sure after I spotted this on Teletext... > > > > MOTHER JAILED OVER SON'S NAME > > > > "A mother of 14 children was jailed for 2 days > > because she refused to change the name she picked > > for her young son. > > > > Norway has strict laws regulating names, including > > lists of acceptable first and last names. > > > > Kirsti Larsen, 46, said she named her son Gesher > > after she dreamed the child should be named Bridge > > - gesher means bridge in Hebrew." > > Germany has strict laws on this, too. They also have strict laws on > surnames, and refused to allow my wife (French) to adopt my surname > when we married, claiming that the French would not allow it. My wife > got an official statement to the contrary from the French Embassy, but > they didn't accept that. > That is unbelievable. To impose such restrictions on their own citizens seems authoritarian enough, but to extend it to foreign nationals (I assume neither of you have dual nationality), and on the grounds that another country might object, is really OTT. Anyway, is your surname not of French origin (Le Hey)?. > My daughter was born in Germany, though she's not a German national, > and I was damned if I was going to let them dictate her name. > Unfortunately, it turned out that the name we chose was on their list. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 04:06:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22869 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:06:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22864 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:06:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zt9X3-0000uX-00; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:06:22 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA02420; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:06:15 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00323; Thu, 24 Dec 98 12:06:08 GMT Message-Id: <36822D5A.92E0245C@uk.radan.com> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:02:34 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crazy Laws References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > On 23-Dec-98 Mark Ovens wrote: > > Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > > I wasn't for one minute suggesting that they were abnormal. > > Mayhaps ye missed the last line of my .sig? > Doh, yes I did. > Anyways... I find that in the Netherlands we have almost no restrictions. > > Just one time when parents wanted to name their kid XJ67-Z did the government > say stop. > It seems like it was fortunate for Frank Zappa and Bob Geldof/Paula Yates that they lived in the UK or Frank would have had trouble with Dweezle and Moon Unit, and Bob & Paula with Fifi Trixibelle (and a couple of others which escape me at the moment). Actually this reminds me of an old joke... "Police raided Paula Yates home today and found Speed, Amphetamines, and Ecstacy. The other daughter wasn't at home." Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year. > >> --- > >> Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain > >> asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... > >> Network/Security Specialist > >> BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve > >> > >> (taking a very serious attitude to a very lighthearted post, all in good jest > >> offcourse) > > --- > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain > asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... > Network/Security Specialist > BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 10:08:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29960 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:08:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29942; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:08:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0ztDru-0005ip-00; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:44:11 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA00424; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:43:39 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02033; Thu, 24 Dec 98 16:43:37 GMT Message-Id: <36826E4E.8CE77609@uk.radan.com> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:39:42 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-uk-users Subject: Season Greetings Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thank you to everyone on the lists for all the help, information, and entertainment over the past year. I wish you all, whether you observe Christmas or not, peace and happiness. A Very Merry Christmas and A Happy and Prosperous New Year. -- Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 10:25:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01888 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:25:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01882 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:25:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA26944; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:24:44 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981224112052.05a31740@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:23:28 -0700 To: Mark Ovens , Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36822D20.DCF23B22@uk.radan.com> References: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> <19981224102628.S12346@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:01 PM 12/24/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >That is unbelievable. To impose such restrictions on their own citizens >seems authoritarian enough, but to extend it to foreign nationals (I >assume neither of you have dual nationality), and on the grounds that >another country might object, is really OTT. Anyway, is your surname not >of French origin (Le Hey)?. The French preoccupation with the purity of their language has inspired no small amount of parody. Chief among these were the Pepe Le Pew cartoons, in which people encountering the principal character would shout: "C'est le pole-chat!" "Sacre' bleu! Le grand sconque de pew!" and other memorable bits of "Franglish." --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 10:46:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04620 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:46:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04614 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:46:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.110]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1217; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:46:31 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:53:05 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24-Dec-98 Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Brett Glass writes: >> At 10:26 AM 12/24/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> > > Kirsti Larsen, 46, said she named her son Gesher >> > > after she dreamed the child should be named Bridge >> > > - gesher means bridge in Hebrew." >> Sounds anti-Semitic to me. > > No. They wouldn't have accepted "bridge" either, because it's not on > their list. And Bridget? ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 12:16:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14903 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:16:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from trickster.net (trickster.net [199.1.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14898 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:16:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from travis@trickster.net) Received: from [209.154.114.154] (chi-qbu-nvp-vty154.as.wcom.net [209.154.114.154]) by trickster.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA05784; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:16:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199812242016.PAA05784@trickster.net> Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:28:05 -0500 x-sender: travis@wildebeest.trickster.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Travis Ruthenburg To: "Brett Glass" cc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12/24/98 1:23 PM, Brett Glass (brett@lariat.org) uttered: >At 12:01 PM 12/24/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > >>That is unbelievable. To impose such restrictions on their own citizens >>seems authoritarian enough, but to extend it to foreign nationals (I >>assume neither of you have dual nationality), and on the grounds that >>another country might object, is really OTT. Anyway, is your surname not >>of French origin (Le Hey)?. > >The French preoccupation with the purity of their language has inspired >no small amount of parody. Chief among these were the Pepe Le Pew >cartoons, in which people encountering the principal character would >shout: > >"C'est le pole-chat!" > >"Sacre' bleu! Le grand sconque de pew!" > >and other memorable bits of "Franglish." I always thought the proper term was "Franglais"... >--Brett Travis Ruthenburg bjork bjork bjork travis@trickster.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 12:26:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15574 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:26:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hq.globix.net (hq.globix.net [206.139.190.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15566; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:26:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkatsnel@globix.com) Received: from globix.com (mescalito.globix.net [204.254.224.88]) by hq.globix.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Cleen) with ESMTP id PAA05639; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:25:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3682A3D6.F9B4919C@globix.com> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:28:06 -0500 From: Roman Katsnelson Organization: Globix Corp. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens CC: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-uk-users Subject: Re: Season Greetings References: <36826E4E.8CE77609@uk.radan.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thanks, and I second that. ;) You all are the best. Roman. Mark Ovens wrote: > > Thank you to everyone on the lists for all the help, information, and > entertainment over the past year. > > I wish you all, whether you observe Christmas or not, peace and > happiness. > > A Very Merry Christmas > > and > > A Happy and Prosperous New Year. > > -- Mark > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 12:44:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17357 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:44:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles221.castles.com [208.214.165.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17352 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:44:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00792; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:41:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812242041.MAA00792@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: Mark Ovens , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:23:28 MST." <4.1.19981224112052.05a31740@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:41:07 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 12:01 PM 12/24/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >That is unbelievable. To impose such restrictions on their own citizens > >seems authoritarian enough, but to extend it to foreign nationals (I > >assume neither of you have dual nationality), and on the grounds that > >another country might object, is really OTT. Anyway, is your surname not > >of French origin (Le Hey)?. > > The French preoccupation with the purity of their language has inspired > no small amount of parody. Chief among these were the Pepe Le Pew > cartoons, in which people encountering the principal character would > shout: > > "C'est le pole-chat!" > > "Sacre' bleu! Le grand sconque de pew!" > > and other memorable bits of "Franglish." Chief? I don't know about that. But the language is "Franglais", and the thus-named column in Punch Magazine was my first introduction to the concept. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 13:09:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20209 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:09:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20202 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:09:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt1-121.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.121]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA03406 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:09:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA01886 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:09:13 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199812242109.PAA01886@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) In-reply-to: Message from Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai of "Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:53:05 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:09:13 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: > On 24-Dec-98 Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Brett Glass writes: > >> At 10:26 AM 12/24/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> > > Kirsti Larsen, 46, said she named her son Gesher > >> > > after she dreamed the child should be named Bridge > >> > > - gesher means bridge in Hebrew." > >> Sounds anti-Semitic to me. > > > > No. They wouldn't have accepted "bridge" either, because it's not on > > their list. > > And Bridget? ;) That would be cruel to name a son that, as Bridget is a female bridge. Or maybe a "little bridge." :-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 13:32:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22906 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:32:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22875; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:32:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA76302; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:31:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Mark Ovens Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-uk-users Subject: Re: Season Greetings References: <36826E4E.8CE77609@uk.radan.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 24 Dec 1998 22:31:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: Mark Ovens's message of "Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:39:42 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens writes: > Thank you to everyone on the lists for all the help, information, and > entertainment over the past year. > > I wish you all, whether you observe Christmas or not, peace and > happiness. > > A Very Merry Christmas > > and > > A Happy and Prosperous New Year. AOL on that, brother! Virtual group-hug to all you daemons & dameonesses out there :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 14:52:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01060 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:52:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01054 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:52:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.174]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1F26; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:51:47 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199812242109.PAA01886@n4hhe.ampr.org> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:58:23 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: David Kelly Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24-Dec-98 David Kelly wrote: > Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: >> On 24-Dec-98 Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >> > Brett Glass writes: >> >> At 10:26 AM 12/24/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> > > Kirsti Larsen, 46, said she named her son Gesher >> >> > > after she dreamed the child should be named Bridge >> >> > > - gesher means bridge in Hebrew." >> >> Sounds anti-Semitic to me. >> > >> > No. They wouldn't have accepted "bridge" either, because it's not on >> > their list. >> >> And Bridget? ;) > > That would be cruel to name a son that, as Bridget is a female bridge. > Or maybe a "little bridge." :-) D'OH! For some reason I was thinking about the other sex when I wrote this... I might take this as a hint to mail a Norwegian girlfriend of mine =P --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 15:32:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04987 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:32:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04979 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:32:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA14150; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:02:24 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA17007; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:02:25 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981225100225.H12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:02:25 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Ovens Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> <19981224102628.S12346@freebie.lemis.com> <36822D20.DCF23B22@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <36822D20.DCF23B22@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Thu, Dec 24, 1998 at 12:01:36PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 24 December 1998 at 12:01:36 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Wednesday, 23 December 1998 at 14:49:25 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >>> I always thought Scandinavia was a free and easy-going place. >>> I'm not so sure after I spotted this on Teletext... >>> >>> MOTHER JAILED OVER SON'S NAME >>> >>> "A mother of 14 children was jailed for 2 days >>> because she refused to change the name she picked >>> for her young son. >>> >>> Norway has strict laws regulating names, including >>> lists of acceptable first and last names. >>> >>> Kirsti Larsen, 46, said she named her son Gesher >>> after she dreamed the child should be named Bridge >>> - gesher means bridge in Hebrew." >> >> Germany has strict laws on this, too. They also have strict laws on >> surnames, and refused to allow my wife (French) to adopt my surname >> when we married, claiming that the French would not allow it. My wife >> got an official statement to the contrary from the French Embassy, but >> they didn't accept that. > > That is unbelievable. To impose such restrictions on their own citizens > seems authoritarian enough, but to extend it to foreign nationals (I > assume neither of you have dual nationality), My daughter does (French and Australian). > and on the grounds that another country might object, is really OTT. Right. The way they see it, they are interpreting the French laws, which state (after translation through German into English) that a woman does not gain possession of the surname of her husband, but that by universal agreement, she uses it (presumably for the duration of the marriage). As a result, my wife is Yvonne Koedderitzsch (good French name, that) épouse Lehey. In English, she's Yvonne Lehey née Koedderitzsch. In Germany, she was Yvonne Ködderitzsch (they can spell that, sort of). > Anyway, is your surname not of French origin (Le Hey)?. No, it's Irish. County Tipperary, a variant on Leahy. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 24 16:45:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13729 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:45:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13599 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:45:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA29313; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:45:05 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:43:45 -0700 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Mark Ovens , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812242041.MAA00792@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:41 PM 12/24/98 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >Chief? I don't know about that. But the language is "Franglais", and >the thus-named column in Punch Magazine was my first introduction to >the concept. I think that frustrated Frenchmen (and French teachers) were calling it "Franglish" long before Punch came out with the column. My first French teacher (who was in her 60's or 70's when I had her in elementary school in the 1960's) says that they called it that when she was little. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 02:27:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA25817 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:27:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA25811 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA19639; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:27:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19981225022720.A19610@orcrist.mediacity.com> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:27:20 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: spork Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger References: <367FBF40.19D8BEFD@mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from spork on Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 03:08:19PM -0500 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 03:08:19PM -0500, spork wrote: > The thing that befuddles me is that as long as I've used *nix, I've always > thought command-completion was the coolest thing. When I downloaded the > first windows version of netscape where it completes the URL field for > you, I was thrilled. This feature *still* doesn't exist in the X > versions... I feel sooo cheated. Actually, I find the URL completion to be completely annoying. I always find that the machine prefers a particular completion for any given URL, so, for example, typing "www.pobo" yields "http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/papers/gcc.html", when that is a climatography paper that I wrote, that I hardly ever want to see. Even more annoying is how it doesn't erase what it has completed if you continue typing; as long as what you type matches its pattern, it will leave it up there. So if I complete "http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/", then hit enter, it will still give me the gcc.html link instead of just sending me to ~gsutter. If there was an option controlling it, I would instantly turn it off. The "feature" is not worth the trouble. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter My reality check just bounced. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 03:30:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA29402 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:30:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA29397 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:30:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA77929; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:30:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> <19981224102628.S12346@freebie.lemis.com> <36822D20.DCF23B22@uk.radan.com> <19981225100225.H12346@freebie.lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 25 Dec 1998 12:30:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:02:25 +1030" Message-ID: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > Right. The way they see it, they are interpreting the French laws, > which state (after translation through German into English) that a > woman does not gain possession of the surname of her husband, but that > by universal agreement, she uses it (presumably for the duration of > the marriage). My humble opinion on this matter is that this is bullshit. > As a result, my wife is Yvonne Koedderitzsch (good > French name, that) épouse Lehey. AFAIK, in France she may choose between keeping her maiden name, or taking her husband's name. I'll ask my mother for the details if you want. (Is Ködderitzsch an Alsacian name btw?) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 03:59:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00800 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:59:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA00795 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:59:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0ztVtJ-0007Vy-00; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:58:49 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA01779; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:58:20 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02524; Fri, 25 Dec 98 11:58:13 GMT Message-Id: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:36:11 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 12:41 PM 12/24/98 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > >Chief? I don't know about that. But the language is "Franglais", and > >the thus-named column in Punch Magazine was my first introduction to > >the concept. > > I think that frustrated Frenchmen (and French teachers) were calling > it "Franglish" long before Punch came out with the column. My first > French teacher (who was in her 60's or 70's when I had her in elementary > school in the 1960's) says that they called it that when she was little. > FWIW, I've always known it as Franglais. I rather suspect that the the case is that English speakers call it Franglais and French speakers call it Franglish. In France they have a law that says that all advertising must be in French, which creates some rather strange anomalies e.g. English and American schools in France must advertise (presumably for English speaking pupils) in French :-/. They also made it a condition of allowing Disney to build EuroDisney in France that the primary language there is French. Now what's the French for French Fries..... > --Brett -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 04:05:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02454 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 04:05:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA02415 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 04:05:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0ztVzD-0000Zj-00; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:04:56 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA01830; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:04:20 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02613; Fri, 25 Dec 98 12:04:14 GMT Message-Id: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:36:11 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 12:41 PM 12/24/98 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > >Chief? I don't know about that. But the language is "Franglais", and > >the thus-named column in Punch Magazine was my first introduction to > >the concept. > > I think that frustrated Frenchmen (and French teachers) were calling > it "Franglish" long before Punch came out with the column. My first > French teacher (who was in her 60's or 70's when I had her in elementary > school in the 1960's) says that they called it that when she was little. > FWIW, I've always known it as Franglais. I rather suspect that the the case is that English speakers call it Franglais and French speakers call it Franglish. In France they have a law that says that all advertising must be in French, which creates some rather strange anomalies e.g. English and American schools in France must advertise (presumably for English speaking pupils) in French :-/. They also made it a condition of allowing Disney to build EuroDisney in France that the primary language there is French. Now what's the French for French Fries..... > --Brett -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 05:53:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09178 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 05:53:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA09171 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 05:53:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id GAA02952; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 06:53:34 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 06:51:30 -0700 To: Mark Ovens From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:36 AM 12/25/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >Now what's the French for French Fries..... Ironically, the German for them is "Pommes Frites." In other words, the Germans say "French fried potatoes" by saying "fried potatoes" in French. Go figure. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 07:06:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12648 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 07:06:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12643 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 07:06:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.48]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA4088 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:09:35 +0500 Message-ID: <3683AA51.5E2768D2@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:08:01 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FWIW, I have heard about Spanglish too. Pedro. Mark Ovens wrote: > ... > FWIW, I've always known it as Franglais. I rather suspect that the the > case is that English speakers call it Franglais and French speakers call > it Franglish. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 07:20:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13413 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 07:20:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13406 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 07:20:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id CAA14245; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 02:19:31 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 02:19:26 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Brett Glass Cc: Mark Ovens , Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1>; from Brett Glass on Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 06:51:30AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 06:51:30AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:36 AM 12/25/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >Now what's the French for French Fries..... > > Ironically, the German for them is "Pommes Frites." > In other words, the Germans say "French fried > potatoes" by saying "fried potatoes" in French. > > Go figure. Bugger that. We just call them by their right name: chips. "French fries" always sounded to me like something intimate, fried. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 11:20:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28054 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:20:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28049 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:20:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id UAA02428 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:19:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 53812155A; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:12:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:12:55 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Message-ID: <19981225201255.A15363@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> <19981224102628.S12346@freebie.lemis.com> <36822D20.DCF23B22@uk.radan.com> <19981225100225.H12346@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 12:30:02PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4871 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Dag-Erling Smorgrav: > AFAIK, in France she may choose between keeping her maiden name, or > taking her husband's name. I'll ask my mother for the details if you > want. IIRC it is fairly recent. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 11:22:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28320 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:22:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28315 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:22:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id UAA02933 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:21:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 48FA4155A; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:15:29 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:15:29 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Message-ID: <19981225201529.B15363@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 11:36:11AM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4871 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Mark Ovens: > FWIW, I've always known it as Franglais. I rather suspect that the the > case is that English speakers call it Franglais and French speakers call > it Franglish. I don't agree. Most people I know here call it "franglais". > In France they have a law that says that all advertising must be in > French, which creates some rather strange anomalies e.g. English and > American schools in France must advertise (presumably for English And you must have a translation (generally as a small footnote) if a sentence is in a foreign language. We also have quotas for the broadcasting radios (around 40% of french music) which is pretty ridiculous. The quotas were introduced by a ministry of culture named « Toubon » which many people promptly translated into « Allgood » :-) > speaking pupils) in French :-/. They also made it a condition of > allowing Disney to build EuroDisney in France that the primary language > there is French. Now what's the French for French Fries..... « frite » -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 12:45:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02850 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:45:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02841 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:45:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zte6O-0002Uq-00; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:44:53 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA01996; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:44:17 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04439; Fri, 25 Dec 98 20:44:13 GMT Message-Id: <3683F851.C3334AFC@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:40:49 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake Cc: Brett Glass , Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 06:51:30AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > > At 11:36 AM 12/25/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > > > >Now what's the French for French Fries..... > > > > Ironically, the German for them is "Pommes Frites." > > In other words, the Germans say "French fried > > potatoes" by saying "fried potatoes" in French. > > > > Go figure. > > Bugger that. We just call them by their right name: chips. > Quite correct, but it confuses the hell out of Americans - they think you mean crisps ;-) > "French fries" always sounded to me like something intimate, fried. > The mind boggles. > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 12:48:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03263 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:48:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03258 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:48:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zte9u-0002uX-00; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:48:30 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA02023; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:48:02 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04489; Fri, 25 Dec 98 20:47:57 GMT Message-Id: <3683F930.DA71571B@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 20:44:32 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 11:36 AM 12/25/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >Now what's the French for French Fries..... > > Ironically, the German for them is "Pommes Frites." > In other words, the Germans say "French fried > potatoes" by saying "fried potatoes" in French. > > Go figure. > Hmm, I think I'll just stick to "chips" (with a nice piece of battered cod and loads of salt & vinegar, all wrapped up in yesterdays Daily Express, mmmmm...) > --Brett > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 16:44:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17399 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:44:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17394 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:44:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA19065; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:13:45 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA23845; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:13:46 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981226111346.A12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:13:46 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> <19981224102628.S12346@freebie.lemis.com> <36822D20.DCF23B22@uk.radan.com> <19981225100225.H12346@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 12:30:02PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 25 December 1998 at 12:30:02 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: >> Right. The way they see it, they are interpreting the French laws, >> which state (after translation through German into English) that a >> woman does not gain possession of the surname of her husband, but that >> by universal agreement, she uses it (presumably for the duration of >> the marriage). > > My humble opinion on this matter is that this is bullshit. It's partially bullshit. It's basically legal nitpicking. The Germans don't understand the French terms. >> As a result, my wife is Yvonne Koedderitzsch (good >> French name, that) épouse Lehey. > > AFAIK, in France she may choose between keeping her maiden name, or > taking her husband's name. I'll ask my mother for the details if you > want. At the time (1985), the wife didn't gain *possession* of the husband's name, not even if it was in the marriage contract. Ollivier indicates that this has changed. Things even changed in Germany: just before we left, Yvonne was allowed to make a voluntary declaration allowing her to use my surname. The Germans made it very clear that this declaration only applied to Germany and had no validity outside the country. They still didn't understand. > (Is Ködderitzsch an Alsacian name btw?) No. It's a long, complicated story. At a first approximation, consider it Swiss. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 16:45:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17657 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:45:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17652 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:45:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA19077; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:15:13 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA23858; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:15:16 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981226111515.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:15:15 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Ovens , Brett Glass Cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 11:36:11AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 25 December 1998 at 11:36:11 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > Brett Glass wrote: >> >> At 12:41 PM 12/24/98 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> >>> Chief? I don't know about that. But the language is "Franglais", and >>> the thus-named column in Punch Magazine was my first introduction to >>> the concept. >> >> I think that frustrated Frenchmen (and French teachers) were calling >> it "Franglish" long before Punch came out with the column. My first >> French teacher (who was in her 60's or 70's when I had her in elementary >> school in the 1960's) says that they called it that when she was little. > > FWIW, I've always known it as Franglais. I rather suspect that the the > case is that English speakers call it Franglais and French speakers call > it Franglish. Just by chance, I was reading an article in the Encyclopædia Britannica which referred to Franglais yesterday. > In France they have a law that says that all advertising must be in > French, which creates some rather strange anomalies e.g. English and > American schools in France must advertise (presumably for English > speaking pupils) in French :-/. They also made it a condition of > allowing Disney to build EuroDisney in France that the primary language > there is French. Now what's the French for French Fries..... Frites. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 16:48:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17795 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:48:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17789 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:47:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA19085; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:17:25 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA23868; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:17:28 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981226111728.C12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:17:28 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , Mark Ovens Cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Chips (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1>; from Brett Glass on Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 06:51:30AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 25 December 1998 at 6:51:30 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:36 AM 12/25/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > >> Now what's the French for French Fries..... > > Ironically, the German for them is "Pommes Frites." > In other words, the Germans say "French fried > potatoes" by saying "fried potatoes" in French. I believe this comes from French Belgian usage. As everybody knows, the Belgians invented chips. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 16:48:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18053 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:48:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18048 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:48:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA19093; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:18:15 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA23878; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:18:17 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981226111817.D12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:18:17 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Ovens , Brett Glass Cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Vinegar (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <3683F930.DA71571B@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <3683F930.DA71571B@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 08:44:32PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 25 December 1998 at 20:44:32 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > > Brett Glass wrote: >> >> At 11:36 AM 12/25/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >> >>> Now what's the French for French Fries..... >> >> Ironically, the German for them is "Pommes Frites." >> In other words, the Germans say "French fried >> potatoes" by saying "fried potatoes" in French. >> >> Go figure. > > Hmm, I think I'll just stick to "chips" (with a nice piece of battered > cod and loads of salt & vinegar, all wrapped up in yesterdays Daily > Express, mmmmm...) You Poms were always funny with vinegar. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 17:13:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19726 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:13:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19721 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:13:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA06050; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:12:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:11:13 -0700 To: Sue Blake From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Mark Ovens , Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> References: <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:19 AM 12/26/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: >Bugger that. We just call them by their right name: chips. Which is the word Americans use for what you folks in Oz and across the Deep Pond call "crisps." Never mind all the cognates for parts of cars, or the one for those purse-like contraptions one wears around one's waist. As I was reminded this summer as I wandered around the UK on honeymoon, British and American are different languages. And Australian, Irish, and Scottish "English" are different still. ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 17:20:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19937 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:20:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19932 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:20:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA06101; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:20:03 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:18:39 -0700 To: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) In-Reply-To: <19981225201529.B15363@keltia.freenix.fr> References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:15 PM 12/25/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: >And you must have a translation (generally as a small footnote) if a >sentence is in a foreign language. Chacun a son gout. (*) >We also have quotas for the broadcasting >radios (around 40% of french music) which is pretty ridiculous. A faction in Israel just introduced a bill imposing a 50% Hebrew quota. --Brett (*) Everyone has gout. ;-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 17:42:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21521 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:42:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21315 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:42:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA16879; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:42:08 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981226124204.08495@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:42:05 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 06:11:13PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 06:11:13PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 02:19 AM 12/26/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > > >Bugger that. We just call them by their right name: chips. > > Which is the word Americans use for what you folks in Oz > and across the Deep Pond call "crisps." Sort of. We know that they're called crisps because that's what's on the bag, but we always call them chips because it's easier to say. Only when necessary do we distinguish between the two types, by calling the hot ones "hot chips". > Never mind all the cognates for parts of cars, or > the one for those purse-like contraptions one wears > around one's waist. Parts of cars are confusing, but the name the Americans use for those purses is foul and disgusting even to my coarse Ozzie ears. > As I was reminded this summer as I wandered around the > UK on honeymoon, British and American are different > languages. And Australian, Irish, and Scottish > "English" are different still. ;-) Yeah, but Australian, Irish, Scottish and English English don't present so many problems in translation. The differences are mainly in pronunciation. I can't think of a common word that is a bad swear word in another of these English variants, for example, but I can think of several between American and Australian/English/etc. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 17:56:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22008 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:56:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22003 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:56:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA79150; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 02:56:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368102F5.C90B94D5@uk.radan.com> <19981224102628.S12346@freebie.lemis.com> <36822D20.DCF23B22@uk.radan.com> <19981225100225.H12346@freebie.lemis.com> <19981226111346.A12346@freebie.lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 26 Dec 1998 02:56:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:13:46 +1030" Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > On Friday, 25 December 1998 at 12:30:02 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Greg Lehey writes: > > > Right. The way they see it, they are interpreting the French laws, > > > which state (after translation through German into English) that a > > > woman does not gain possession of the surname of her husband, but that > > > by universal agreement, she uses it (presumably for the duration of > > > the marriage). > > My humble opinion on this matter is that this is bullshit. > It's partially bullshit. It's basically legal nitpicking. The > Germans don't understand the French terms. Yeah. BTW, I think what I wrote didn't come out right: I meant that it was bullshit on the Belgians' part. I'll have to ask my mother for details; she has a degree in French law. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 18:01:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22428 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:01:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22423 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:01:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA79175; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 03:01:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Mark Ovens Cc: Brett Glass , Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 26 Dec 1998 03:01:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: Mark Ovens's message of "Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:36:11 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens writes: > In France they have a law that says that all advertising must be in > French, which creates some rather strange anomalies e.g. English and > American schools in France must advertise (presumably for English > speaking pupils) in French :-/. They also made it a condition of > allowing Disney to build EuroDisney in France that the primary language > there is French. Now what's the French for French Fries..... Pommes frites, of course. DES (who's fried quite a few metric tons of 'em at EuroDisney) -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 18:03:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22749 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:03:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22735 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:03:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA79186; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 03:03:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Brett Glass Cc: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 26 Dec 1998 03:03:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: Brett Glass's message of "Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:18:39 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > At 08:15 PM 12/25/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > And you must have a translation (generally as a small footnote) if a > > sentence is in a foreign language. > Chacun a son gout. (*) ITYM "À chacun son goût". HTH, HAND! DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 18:35:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24242 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:35:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24237 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:35:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id TAA06483; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 19:35:20 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981225191823.058b3d00@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 19:19:53 -0700 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id SAA24238 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:03 AM 12/26/98 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >ITYM "À chacun son goût". HTH, HAND! Unfortunately, the accents don't come out on everyone's terminal, so I usually omit them. And, yes, I know what it really means. ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 18:35:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24483 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:35:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24429 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:35:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id TAA06480; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 19:35:19 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 19:33:58 -0700 To: Sue Blake From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981226124204.08495@welearn.com.au> References: <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:42 PM 12/26/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: >Parts of cars are confusing, but the name the Americans use for >those purses is foul and disgusting even to my coarse Ozzie ears. I realize that, to most other English speakers, the American term sounds like a feminine hygeine product, or worse. But for us, that connotation just isn't there! In fact, this week I heard the word used, on the radio, as a euphemism for a term which is considered to be only mildly risque in BOTH countries. Shows how easy it is to make a faux pas(*) even when one is speaking what is supposedly the "same" language. --Brett (*) Faux pas: In American football, to pretend to throw the ball but not actually do so. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 25 18:47:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24839 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:47:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24833 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 18:47:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA19341; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:16:45 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id NAA24055; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:16:44 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:16:44 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brett Glass Cc: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 03:03:09AM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 3:03:09 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Brett Glass writes: >> At 08:15 PM 12/25/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: >>> And you must have a translation (generally as a small footnote) if a >>> sentence is in a foreign language. >> Chacun a son gout. (*) > > ITYM "À chacun son goût". HTH, HAND! Not really. It's ``chacun a son gout'', a representative of a kind of old English that looks remarkably like French, like ``honi soit qui mal y pense'' and ``connoisseur''. You can optionally substitute `à' for `a'. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 01:09:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14923 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 01:09:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14918 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 01:09:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.197]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6340; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:09:30 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19981226124204.08495@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:16:11 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Sue Blake Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Madainn mhath(*) On 26-Dec-98 Sue Blake wrote: > On Fri, Dec 25, 1998 at 06:11:13PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >> As I was reminded this summer as I wandered around the >> UK on honeymoon, British and American are different >> languages. And Australian, Irish, and Scottish >> "English" are different still. ;-) > > Yeah, but Australian, Irish, Scottish and English English don't present > so many problems in translation. The differences are mainly in > pronunciation. I can't think of a common word that is a bad swear word > in another of these English variants, for example, but I can think of > several between American and Australian/English/etc. Well, depends on which Irish/Scottish ye mean. As soon as people start using the `real' Scottisch 'n Irish, then most can forget it. Gaelic and the Scandanavian tongues are in my opinin some of the greatest souding languages around. And I have to say that Dutch ain't bad either, we can both speak the hard German as well as the soft french tongue... Not many people can pronounce 's-Gravehage as it should be (the g is the same as in the scottish loch). Go maith hi u mu slainte! (**) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve (*) - Good morning (**) - Go forth in happiness To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 06:31:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03616 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 06:31:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03611 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 06:31:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA93595; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:30:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brett Glass , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 26 Dec 1998 15:30:57 +0100 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:16:44 +1030" Message-ID: Lines: 33 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 3:03:09 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Brett Glass writes: > > > At 08:15 PM 12/25/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > > > And you must have a translation (generally as a small footnote) if a > > > > sentence is in a foreign language. > > > Chacun a son gout. (*) > > ITYM "À chacun son goût". HTH, HAND! > Not really. It's ``chacun a son gout'', a representative of a kind of > old English that looks remarkably like French, like ``honi soit qui > mal y pense'' and ``connoisseur''. You can optionally substitute > `à' for `a'. Ollivier, gimme a hand will you? :) The maxim Brett wrote is grammatically correct, but kinda flat ("each has his taste"). The correct version is the one I wrote, which translates to "to each his taste". And you may *not* substitute "à" for "a" in "chacun a son goût", because the "a" there is the second person singular of the verb "avoir" in the present tense. (and "honni" is spelled "honni", not "honi") BTW "connoisseur" is a funny example of a French word that has been in the English language for so long that it's no longer spelled the same way in French; most of the "oi" diphtongs have become "ai" (françois -> français, connoître -> connaître) but the English have kept the archaic spelling in most cases (connoisseur, reconnoitre) but not all (reconnaissance) DES (card-carrying frog) -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 06:35:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03914 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 06:35:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03909 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 06:35:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA93611; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:34:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Sue Blake , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 26 Dec 1998 15:34:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai's message of "Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:16:11 +0100 (CET)" Message-ID: Lines: 18 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: > Gaelic and the Scandanavian tongues are in my opinin some of the > greatest souding languages around. No, no, no, you must mean Gaelic and Finnish. Nothing's quite like Finnish :) Puhuttekö Suomea? > And I have to say that Dutch > ain't bad either, we can both speak the hard German as well as the > soft french tongue... Not many people can pronounce 's-Gravehage as > it should be (the g is the same as in the scottish loch). 's-Hertogenbosch is another good example :) (as a frog, I have the advantage of being allowed to say "Bois-le-Duc" instead) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 09:27:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14989 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:27:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vlad.sci.fi (laatikko.saunalahti.fi [195.74.0.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14984 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:27:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sjuke@saunalahti.fi) Received: from sjukebox.home (MCCLIV.dyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.4.54]) by vlad.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA12494; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:27:25 +0200 (EET) Received: from sjukehome.nonexistent (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sjukebox.home (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00687; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:27:18 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from sjuke@saunalahti.fi) Message-Id: <199812261727.TAA00687@sjukebox.home> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Mark Ovens , Juergen Nickelsen , Drew Baxter , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:03:36 PST." <83356.914256216@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:27:17 +0200 From: Jukka Similä Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA14985 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > What I do know is that many European countries have been famous for > centuries for having some of the best educated populations and for > fostering some of the greatest periods of intellectual advancement > (like the Rennaisance) in human history. Now that we've reached the > information age, it looks like just about everyone except for perhaps > Finland has completely dropped the ball. What's going on over there, indeed, over 50% of finnish people have their (our) own personal mobile phone, which works anywhere in the country (and in over 60 countrys over the world, advertises Sonera,a telecommunications company) - thanks to Nokia & Sonera. And everybody can read, the percentage is something 99+%. But- taxes may be as high as 60+%, and budget is something 300 000 000 000 FIM on red - about -60 000 000 000 USD. And about phonecalls, local phone charge is about 1$ /hour, and my internet connection costs that + ~12$ / month. - practically my net costs are ~ 80$ / 2 months, for 56K modem - that means about 60 hours / 2 months connected to the internet - differs slightly from fulltime connection, right? - well and I can't even complain about living costs (i'm 17, i live 'at home' with my parents). > guys? You should have wireless, unmetered usage, IP networks covering > every major city and federal programs where every able-bodied citizen > over 10 years old gets a state sponsored laptop and a wireless modem. > Villages of 40 people or more should qualify for free E1 service or > even more if some percentage of the population is actively engaged in > software development. Get Off Your Butts, you EC slackers! :-) Do you read science fiction? - you should read Isaac Asimov's 'Prelude to Foundation' - it tells about Universe-wide Empire, that is destroyed because there is no more research and no knowledge to fix old machines - gosh, sometimes I hate this , telling something in english, not knowing a half of the words and only guessing if everything I write sounds weird, funny or un-understandable. Anyway , a lot of things in 'Prelude to Foundation' matches to Europe. It's interesting. - Jukka S. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 09:49:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16427 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:49:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16422 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:49:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA12817; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:48:46 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226104523.05b17ed0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:47:10 -0700 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Sue Blake From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <19981226124204.08495@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:16 AM 12/26/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >Go maith hi u mu slainte! (**) Och aye(*), Gaelic is an entirely different matter. --Brett (*) Oh, yes; indeed; oh, yeah To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 09:53:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17169 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:53:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17162 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:53:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0ztxtM-0003Jw-00; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:52:46 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA01700; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:52:10 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07030; Sat, 26 Dec 98 17:52:07 GMT Message-Id: <3685208E.DE0DD5F@uk.radan.com> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:44:46 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Sue Blake , Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 02:19 AM 12/26/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > > >Bugger that. We just call them by their right name: chips. > > Which is the word Americans use for what you folks in Oz > and across the Deep Pond call "crisps." > > Never mind all the cognates for parts of cars, or > the one for those purse-like contraptions one wears > around one's waist. > > As I was reminded this summer as I wandered around the > UK on honeymoon, British and American are different > languages. And Australian, Irish, and Scottish > "English" are different still. ;-) > If you wandered around the North West of England where I'm from originally I hope that you didn't come across the expression "Can I bum a fag"[1], which has a *totally* different meaning to an American ;-) [1] "Can I borrow/scrounge a cigarette" > --Brett > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 09:53:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17182 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:53:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17164 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:53:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0ztxtL-0002le-00; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:52:43 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA01702; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:52:13 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07033; Sat, 26 Dec 98 17:52:10 GMT Message-Id: <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:46:44 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Sue Blake , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 12:42 PM 12/26/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > > >Parts of cars are confusing, but the name the Americans use for > >those purses is foul and disgusting even to my coarse Ozzie ears. > > I realize that, to most other English speakers, the American term > sounds like a feminine hygeine product, or worse. But for us, > that connotation just isn't there! In fact, this week I heard > the word used, on the radio, as a euphemism for a term which is > considered to be only mildly risque in BOTH countries. > I take it we're talking about the things we call "bum bags"? What exactly _are_ they called in the US?. Would I be correct in assuming you substitute "bum" with the American for backside? > Shows how easy it is to make a faux pas(*) even when one is > speaking what is supposedly the "same" language. > Like the Aussie walking into the stationery shop and asking for Durex :-) > --Brett > > (*) Faux pas: In American football, to pretend to throw the ball > but not actually do so. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 10:12:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18857 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:12:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18849 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:12:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id TAA26121 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:12:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 449CB155A; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:02:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:02:35 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Message-ID: <19981226170235.A20832@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 03:30:57PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4926 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Dag-Erling Smorgrav: > The maxim Brett wrote is grammatically correct, but kinda flat ("each > has his taste"). The correct version is the one I wrote, which > translates to "to each his taste". And you may *not* substitute "à" > for "a" in "chacun a son goût", because the "a" there is the second > person singular of the verb "avoir" in the present tense. Right. When you can say "avait" (had) in place of "a" and keep the same meaning, then you know you can't use the "à" word (mnemonic way to remember when to you one or the other). you can't substitute "avait" in the following: Il était à la maison (he was at the house) but you can here: Il a chaud (he's warm) > (and "honni" is spelled "honni", not "honi") Well, it could be spelled either way. It comes from the verb "honnir" (to disgrace) and the translation for the saying is Evil be to him who evil thinks > BTW "connoisseur" is a funny example of a French word that has been in > the English language for so long that it's no longer spelled the same > way in French; most of the "oi" diphtongs have become "ai" (françois > -> français, connoître -> connaître) but the English have kept the > archaic spelling in most cases (connoisseur, reconnoitre) but not all > (reconnaissance) The funny thing is that one has to pronounce the archaix version the same as the new one. The new spelling is at least consistent with the pronouncation. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 10:15:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19189 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:15:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19184 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:15:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA13027; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:15:07 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:53:11 -0700 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA19185 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:30 PM 12/26/98 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >BTW "connoisseur" is a funny example of a French word that has been in >the English language for so long that it's no longer spelled the same >way in French; most of the "oi" diphtongs have become "ai" (françois >-> français, connoître -> connaître) but the English have kept the >archaic spelling in most cases (connoisseur, reconnoitre) but not all >(reconnaissance) The funny thing is that when the English adopt a word from another language, they cannot seem to use it as-is. They seem to feel COMPELLED to shift at least the accented syllables and often the vowels. For example, I was recently asked in an English resatuarant if I'd like a piece of "GA-teau." And almost daily, we hear Microsoft referred to as a "JUG-ger-naut" (the original Hindi is "ja-ga-NATH," a name for the god Vishnu). And so on.... --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 10:15:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19365 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:15:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19351 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:15:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA13043; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:15:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:13:41 -0700 To: Mark Ovens From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> References: <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:46 PM 12/26/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >I take it we're talking about the things we call "bum bags"? What >exactly _are_ they called in the US?. Would I be correct in assuming you >substitute "bum" with the American for backside? OK, I'll tell you. Those of our readers who hail from Britain and Australia whose sensibilities might be offended should stop reading this message now and not scroll downward. They're called "fanny packs." You see, in the US, the word "ass," when used to refer a part of the human body is considered mildly vulgar. But "fanny" doesn't have the connotations it does in other countries, and so is used as a EUPHEMISM for that word in polite company. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 10:17:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19513 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:17:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19508 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:17:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA13030; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:15:10 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:04:48 -0700 To: Mark Ovens From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Sue Blake , Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3685208E.DE0DD5F@uk.radan.com> References: <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:44 PM 12/26/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >If you wandered around the North West of England where I'm from >originally I hope that you didn't come across the expression "Can I bum >a fag"[1], which has a *totally* different meaning to an American ;-) Several times while I was in England, people did ask me, "Fag?" Yes, had I not understood the local usage, I might not have understood that this was intended to be a friendly offer. On the other hand, as a non-smoker, I found myself distinctly in the minority. I have never seen such a high incidence of tobacco addiction! The Europeans conquered America, but the Native Americans apparently have retaliated by conquering Europe. Even in venues clearly marked as non-smoking (such as the basement of the legendary Tron folk club in Edinburgh), folks couldn't stand the notion of going outside to smoke (or maybe just couldn't wait). They tried, ineffectively, to hide cigarettes, which drove my new wife's allergies crazy. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 10:17:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19530 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:17:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terror.hungry.com (terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA19524 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:17:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fn@hungry.com) Received: (qmail 7998 invoked by uid 0); 26 Dec 1998 18:17:04 -0000 Received: from siren.hungry.com (undead@199.181.107.129) by terror.hungry.com with SMTP; 26 Dec 1998 18:17:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 11659 invoked by uid 507); 26 Dec 1998 18:17:32 -0000 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> From: Faried Nawaz <__undead@knife.nilpotent.org> Date: 26 Dec 1998 10:17:31 -0800 In-Reply-To: marko@uk.radan.com's message of "26 Dec 1998 09:53:06 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 7 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org marko@uk.radan.com (Mark Ovens) writes: I take it we're talking about the things we call "bum bags"? What exactly _are_ they called in the US?. Would I be correct in assuming you substitute "bum" with the American for backside? Fanny packs. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 11:51:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27262 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:51:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27256 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 11:51:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0ztzji-0007Cx-00; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:50:55 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA01811; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:50:20 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07380; Sat, 26 Dec 98 19:50:15 GMT Message-Id: <36853117.B3CB6D32@uk.radan.com> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:55:19 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Jukka Simil Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Juergen Nickelsen , Drew Baxter , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) References: <199812261727.TAA00687@sjukebox.home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jukka Simil wrote: > > > What I do know is that many European countries have been famous for > > centuries for having some of the best educated populations and for > > fostering some of the greatest periods of intellectual advancement > > (like the Rennaisance) in human history. Now that we've reached the > > information age, it looks like just about everyone except for perhaps > > Finland has completely dropped the ball. What's going on over there, > > indeed, over 50% of finnish people have their (our) own personal mobile phone, > which works anywhere in the country (and in over 60 countrys over the world, > advertises Sonera,a telecommunications company) - thanks to Nokia & Sonera. > And everybody can read, the percentage is something 99+%. > But- taxes may be as high as 60+%, and budget is something 300 000 000 000 FIM > on red - about -60 000 000 000 USD. > > And about phonecalls, local phone charge is about 1$ /hour, > and my internet connection costs that + ~12$ / month. - practically my > net costs are ~ 80$ / 2 months, for 56K modem - that means about 60 hours / 2 > months connected to the internet - differs slightly from fulltime connection, > right? - well and I can't even complain about living costs (i'm 17, i live 'at > home' with my parents). > > > guys? You should have wireless, unmetered usage, IP networks covering > > every major city and federal programs where every able-bodied citizen > > over 10 years old gets a state sponsored laptop and a wireless modem. > > Villages of 40 people or more should qualify for free E1 service or > > even more if some percentage of the population is actively engaged in > > software development. Get Off Your Butts, you EC slackers! :-) > Do you read science fiction? - you should read Isaac Asimov's 'Prelude to > Foundation' - it tells about Universe-wide Empire, that is destroyed because > there is no more research and no knowledge to fix old machines - gosh, > sometimes I hate this , telling something in english, not knowing a half of > the words and only guessing if everything I write sounds weird, funny or > un-understandable. Actually your English is excellent and is perfectly understandable. We English (and Americans, Australians, I guess) are lazy^H^H^H^Hlucky. We don't _need_ to learn another language to get by in the world as everyone else speaks English. I must stress, before I get flamed for being arrogant, that this is not something I'm proud of. If I were to go to another country I would make a effort to communicate with people in their own language, as when we used to go to Greece a lot for holidays (before we had kids). BTW, I get kind of annoyed when people whose native tongue is not English post to the lists (mainly -questions) and then _apologize_ for their bad English. What have they got to apologize for??. No-one on the lists is going to critisize them or correct them, unless the errors completely change the meaning of the problem. So come on people stop apologizing, you don;t need to. I remember when I went to secondary school (late 60's, early 70's) I was really looking forward to learning to speak French but the way it was taught made it almost impossible. We were taught "grammatical French" which means learning the rules of the language, lists and lists of verbs, mainly the irregular ones, and then trying to put together sentences. Apart from being bloody boring it meant that the French you spoke bore little resemblance to the way it is "actually" spoken. I think these days things are better, kids are taught "conversational French/German" - my eldest daughter speaks more and better German after one year than I did French after 5 years. How is English taught in Finnish schools?. > Anyway , a lot of things in 'Prelude to Foundation' matches to Europe. > It's interesting. > > - Jukka S. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 12:42:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00430 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:42:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vlad.sci.fi (laatikko.saunalahti.fi [195.74.0.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00424 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:42:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sjuke@saunalahti.fi) Received: from sjukebox.home (MDLXVIII.dyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.5.68]) by vlad.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA26290; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:41:37 +0200 (EET) Received: from sjukehome.nonexistent (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sjukebox.home (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03390; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:41:32 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from sjuke@saunalahti.fi) Message-Id: <199812262041.WAA03390@sjukebox.home> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mark Ovens cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Juergen Nickelsen , Drew Baxter , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool, A White Snowy Christmas in Sunnyvale, California 8) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:55:19 GMT." <36853117.B3CB6D32@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:41:31 +0200 From: Jukka Similä Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Actually your English is excellent and is perfectly understandable. We thanks > BTW, I get kind of annoyed when people whose native tongue is not > English post to the lists (mainly -questions) and then _apologize_ for > their bad English. What have they got to apologize for??. No-one on the > lists is going to critisize them or correct them, unless the errors > completely change the meaning of the problem. So come on people stop > apologizing, you don;t need to. > I absolutely didn't want to apologize anything; I just wanted to say that sometimes " I get annoyed " when it takes several minutes to figure out a single word of a centence that is sooooo easy to say in finnish. - besides I'm a perfectionist, I don't want to make mistakes. > How is English taught in Finnish schools?. from 3th class - (9 year-old) - kids are taught some user-friendly english, (it becomes harder of course when they grow up) Hi, how are you, my name is jukka etc. It is quite effective, I believe, since almost everybody under 40 and many (over 50% ? -don't know) of over 40's talk at least some kind of english. And everybody between 18 and 26 talk 'quite good' english, that is, they wouldn't die on hunger if they were left to UK or US :) Jukka To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 12:51:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00899 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:51:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00894 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:51:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zu0g1-0002x3-00; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:51:10 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA01878; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:50:34 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07584; Sat, 26 Dec 98 20:50:30 GMT Message-Id: <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:43:53 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 03:30 PM 12/26/98 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > >BTW "connoisseur" is a funny example of a French word that has been in > >the English language for so long that it's no longer spelled the same > >way in French; most of the "oi" diphtongs have become "ai" (franois > >-> franais, connotre -> connatre) but the English have kept the > >archaic spelling in most cases (connoisseur, reconnoitre) but not all > >(reconnaissance) > > The funny thing is that when the English adopt a word from another > language, they cannot seem to use it as-is. They seem to feel COMPELLED > to shift at least the accented syllables and often the vowels. Whereas Americans simply _remove_ (mainly) vowls from English words :-) > For example, I was recently asked in an English resatuarant if I'd like a > piece of "GA-teau." I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I think the English pronounciation of "gateau" is identical to the origianal French. > And almost daily, we hear Microsoft referred to as > a "JUG-ger-naut" (the original Hindi is "ja-ga-NATH," a name for > the god Vishnu). > Partly of course this comes about because of sounds in one language not existing in another and therefore the majority of the population _can't_ pronounce them properly. We had a couple of Spanish students working at my local pub during their summer holidays and they said that they had a lot of trouble with words like "shop" because there is no "sh" sound in Spanish, so they tend to pronounce it "sop". Also the way the same letter is pronounced in different languages affects it. The letter 'J' has a soft sound in many languages, e.g. the (male) name Jean in French or Scandinanians pronouncing "jump" as "yump", whereas in English it has a hard sound, e.g. the (female) name Jean. Additionally we tend to tail-off the ends of words, i.e. hardly ever accent the last syllable. Of course regional accents and dialects play a big part as well, e.g. In northern England where I'm from words like bath, grass, and glass are pronounced with a short 'a', as in cat, whereas down south where I now live they are pronounced "barth", "grarss", and "glarss". This happens everywhere though, think of the different way words like process, lever, and semi are pronounced by people from different areas of the US. > And so on.... > Hopefully it will go on. I am finding this thread extremely interesting (and educational), more so than talking about boring old Unix ;-). That's one of the great things about the international nature of the Internet. > --Brett > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 13:01:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01651 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:01:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01642 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:01:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA18558; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:00:35 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:00:31 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Brett Glass Cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 11:13:41AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 11:13:41AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 05:46 PM 12/26/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >I take it we're talking about the things we call "bum bags"? What > >exactly _are_ they called in the US?. Would I be correct in assuming you > >substitute "bum" with the American for backside? > > OK, I'll tell you. Close, Brett, but you still don't seem to get it. > Those of our readers who hail from Britain and > Australia whose sensibilities might be offended should stop reading > this message now and not scroll downward. Ditto for Americans who are getting it right back. Don't scroll down. > They're called "fanny packs." > > You see, in the US, the word "ass," when used to refer a part > of the human body is considered mildly vulgar. And here "ass" is a donkey. Our word "arse" is probably equivalent. > But "fanny" doesn't have the connotations it does in other countries, > and so is used as a EUPHEMISM for that word in polite company. No, no, no. You still don't seem to realise what you're saying to us. It's not about connotations; the word has an entirely different *meaning*. It refers to an importantly different part of the anatomy. When you say "fanny packs" we hear you say "cunt stuffers". At this rate I'm surprised we ever managed to interbreed. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 13:34:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03547 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:34:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03542 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:34:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA14177; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:34:06 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226141413.0588a190@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:18:53 -0700 To: Mark Ovens From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:43 PM 12/26/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >> For example, I was recently asked in an English resatuarant if I'd like a >> piece of "GA-teau." > >I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I think the English >pronounciation of "gateau" is identical to the origianal French. The accent was on the wrong syllable. The French pronunciation is (and, as far as I know, always has been) ga-TEAU. Of course, the best example of English twisting of words is Cockney rhyming slang, where the only connection between a word and what it really means is either a vowel or a bad pun. ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 13:34:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03793 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:34:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03776 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:34:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA14180; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:34:07 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:32:37 -0700 To: Sue Blake From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> References: <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:00 AM 12/27/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: >Close, Brett, but you still don't seem to get it. Yes, I do get it, in all its inglorious vulgarity. >> You see, in the US, the word "ass," when used to refer a part >> of the human body is considered mildly vulgar. > >And here "ass" is a donkey. Our word "arse" is probably equivalent. Yes. But there's another twist; see below. >> But "fanny" doesn't have the connotations it does in other countries, >> and so is used as a EUPHEMISM for that word in polite company. > >No, no, no. You still don't seem to realise what you're saying to us. >It's not about connotations; the word has an entirely different >*meaning*. Actually, it seems that the American and British/Australian variants have a common origin; the meanings have just drifted apart anatomically as well as semantically. See the OED. >It refers to an importantly different part of the anatomy. In America, the word "ass" is, in some contexts, used to refer to that part of the anatomy, too. As in "piece of ~". (See an unabridged American dictionary or, again, the OED.) Nonetheless, an American generally wouldn't interpret the term "fanny pack" as being a crude name for a feminine hygeine product (which is almost the only possible interpretation in British English). >At this rate I'm surprised we ever managed to interbreed. I'm not. Partners of different origins seem to like to tease one another about such differences. They're often good for a giggle. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 13:50:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05236 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:50:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05186 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:49:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.184]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2FDA; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:49:39 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:56:20 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Ovens , Sue Blake Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 26-Dec-98 Brett Glass wrote: > At 08:00 AM 12/27/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: >>At this rate I'm surprised we ever managed to interbreed. > > I'm not. Partners of different origins seem to like to tease > one another about such differences. They're often good for a > giggle. And leave it to the computer-people to take a good laugh at everything society throws at us. It seems the IT world has a knack for discussing: culture, languages, cats, relationships and everything associated to love and sex. Oh and food offcourse ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 13:51:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05492 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:51:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05487 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:51:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA18644; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:50:44 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981227085040.45844@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:50:40 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Brett Glass Cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 02:32:37PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 02:32:37PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 08:00 AM 12/27/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > > >Close, Brett, but you still don't seem to get it. > > Yes, I do get it, in all its inglorious vulgarity. Oh, I see. You get it, but you're not rude enough to spell it out. In fact you'll risk being misinterpreted to avoid being seen as indelicate to your part of the world. But you are naughty enough to continue using a word that is potentially highly offensive to us (and Australians are *not* easily offended by words). Bloody typical :-) > >> You see, in the US, the word "ass," when used to refer a part > >> of the human body is considered mildly vulgar. > > > >And here "ass" is a donkey. Our word "arse" is probably equivalent. > > Yes. But there's another twist; see below. > > >> But "fanny" doesn't have the connotations it does in other countries, > >> and so is used as a EUPHEMISM for that word in polite company. > > > >No, no, no. You still don't seem to realise what you're saying to us. > >It's not about connotations; the word has an entirely different > >*meaning*. > > Actually, it seems that the American and British/Australian variants > have a common origin; the meanings have just drifted apart anatomically > as well as semantically. See the OED. > > >It refers to an importantly different part of the anatomy. > > In America, the word "ass" is, in some contexts, used to refer > to that part of the anatomy, too. As in "piece of ~". (See an > unabridged American dictionary or, again, the OED.) Oh, I've always thought that phrase was a euphemism, referring to a nearby place to feebly hide the real target, rather than actually naming a different place. > Nonetheless, an American generally wouldn't interpret the term > "fanny pack" as being a crude name for a feminine hygeine product > (which is almost the only possible interpretation in British > English). > > >At this rate I'm surprised we ever managed to interbreed. > > I'm not. Partners of different origins seem to like to tease > one another about such differences. They're often good for a > giggle. Yeah, maybe. I'm intrigued by your response. You've tactfully edited out my "c" word, but left your "f" word in all its vulgarity. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 13:55:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06113 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:55:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06108 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:55:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA14380; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:55:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226145152.0581f5c0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:54:04 -0700 To: Sue Blake From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981227085040.45844@welearn.com.au> References: <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:50 AM 12/27/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: >I'm intrigued by your response. You've tactfully edited out my "c" >word, but left your "f" word in all its vulgarity. Not because I found one to be any more or less offensive than the other. The latter was the subject of the discussion. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 14:19:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09314 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:19:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09309 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:19:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA14552; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:19:16 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226151404.058e4540@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:17:53 -0700 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: F-words (Was: Regulated names) Cc: sue@welearn.com.au In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226145152.0581f5c0@mail.lariat.org> References: <19981227085040.45844@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org By the bye, if you want to read a rather amusing song on this subject (and which doesn't actually use any words that are considered vulgar anywhere), see http://users.aol.com/berrymanp/alyrics/fword.html This is by Lou and Peter Berryman, who, in my opinion, are comic geniuses. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 16:18:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18401 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 16:18:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18396 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 16:18:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA21896 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:48:17 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA26190; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:48:19 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981227104818.A12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:48:19 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Yvonne Lehey Subject: French spelling (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <19981226170235.A20832@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981226170235.A20832@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 05:02:35PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 17:02:35 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Dag-Erling Smorgrav: >> The maxim Brett wrote is grammatically correct, but kinda flat ("each >> has his taste"). The correct version is the one I wrote, which >> translates to "to each his taste". And you may *not* substitute "à" >> for "a" in "chacun a son goût", because the "a" there is the second >> person singular of the verb "avoir" in the present tense. > > Right. When you can say "avait" (had) in place of "a" and keep the same > meaning, then you know you can't use the "à" word (mnemonic way to remember > when to you one or the other). > > you can't substitute "avait" in the following: > > Il était à la maison (he was at the house) > > but you can here: > > Il a chaud (he's warm) Sure, but off the point. The saying is `chacun à son goût', and it's fairly well known in English (though most wouldn't know where to put the accents; and it's definitely à, not a). I looked it up in Larousse, but it only had foreign-language sayings, so I looked it up in Webster, and found it. Translated as ``everyone to his taste'', which is not a good translation of ``chacun''. >> (and "honni" is spelled "honni", not "honi") > > Well, it could be spelled either way. It comes from the verb "honnir" (to > disgrace) and the translation for the saying is > > Evil be to him who evil thinks Yes, but both of you have missed the point. This is one of the mottos of the British royal family, and it's spelt as indicated. Incidentally, compare French ``honte'', also spelt with one n. Amusingly, the other motto of the British royal family is ``Ich dien'', which just goes to show that the British never had their own royal family. >> BTW "connoisseur" is a funny example of a French word that has been in >> the English language for so long that it's no longer spelled the same >> way in French; most of the "oi" diphtongs have become "ai" (françois >> -> français, connoître -> connaître) but the English have kept the >> archaic spelling in most cases (connoisseur, reconnoitre) but not all >> (reconnaissance) > > The funny thing is that one has to pronounce the archaix version the same > as the new one. The new spelling is at least consistent with the > pronouncation. In French, yes. In English, you pronounce the `oi' as a schwa (which I can't represent in this character set, but is basically an empty vowel). Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 16:55:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20301 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 16:55:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20295 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 16:55:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA21967; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:24:28 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA26228; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:23:55 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:23:55 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Ovens , Brett Glass Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Yvonne Lehey Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 08:43:53PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 20:43:53 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > Brett Glass wrote: >> >> At 03:30 PM 12/26/98 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >> >>> BTW "connoisseur" is a funny example of a French word that has been in >>> the English language for so long that it's no longer spelled the same >>> way in French; most of the "oi" diphtongs have become "ai" (franois >>> -> franais, connotre -> connatre) but the English have kept the >>> archaic spelling in most cases (connoisseur, reconnoitre) but not all >>> (reconnaissance) >> >> The funny thing is that when the English adopt a word from another >> language, they cannot seem to use it as-is. They seem to feel COMPELLED >> to shift at least the accented syllables and often the vowels. > > Whereas Americans simply _remove_ (mainly) vowls from English words :-) Not really. How do you pronounce ``laboratory''. Four syllables, right? The Americans stretch five out of it. Dropping vowels is more common elsewhere (as in French). >> For example, I was recently asked in an English resatuarant if I'd like a >> piece of "GA-teau." > > I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I think the English > pronounciation of "gateau" is identical to the origianal French. It's difficult to know if you're talking about the same pronunciation that we are. As others observe, there's a general tendency in English to place the accent on the wrong syllable. In addition, I've often heard things like ``would you like some Black Forest gæteau'' in England, which is doubly funny: 1. It's a tart, not a gâteau. 2. The æ sound (as in `at') is completely wrong. On the whole, even educated people here perpetuate the same mistakes that the British make. Even those who get French vowels more or less right will consistently put the accent on the wrong syllable, which I find a great source of amusement (my wife, Yvonne, is almost always mispronounced). >> And almost daily, we hear Microsoft referred to as >> a "JUG-ger-naut" (the original Hindi is "ja-ga-NATH," a name for >> the god Vishnu). Well, you could hardly talk about ``original Hindi'' in this context. Obviously it derives from Vedic via Sanskrit, and there's still some dispute about how the accents evolved. And considering it means ``Lord of the Earth'', it's a sobering thought when applied to Microsoft. But in general most languages tend to change the accents of foreign borrowings, and English is a good example. Note the opposite tendency in the US: people automatically place the accent on foreign words on the *last* syllable, which in general is true for French only. > Partly of course this comes about because of sounds in one language > not existing in another and therefore the majority of the population > _can't_ pronounce them properly. I'd consider this a completely unrelated effect. > We had a couple of Spanish students working at my local pub during > their summer holidays and they said that they had a lot of trouble > with words like "shop" because there is no "sh" sound in Spanish, so > they tend to pronounce it "sop". Also the way the same letter is > pronounced in different languages affects it. The letter 'J' has a > soft sound in many languages, e.g. the (male) name Jean in French or > Scandinanians pronouncing "jump" as "yump", whereas in English it > has a hard sound, e.g. the (female) name Jean. Remember that J evolved from I. There are many further pronunciations of the letter, as your Spanish students would tell you. > Additionally we tend to tail-off the ends of words, i.e. hardly ever > accent the last syllable. > > Of course regional accents and dialects play a big part as well, e.g. In > northern England where I'm from words like bath, grass, and glass are > pronounced with a short 'a', as in cat, whereas down south where I now > live they are pronounced "barth", "grarss", and "glarss". Sure. This is a normal tendency, and is the reason why Hindi and English sound so different. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 16:57:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20583 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 16:57:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20578 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 16:57:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA21979; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:26:16 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA26244; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:26:17 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981227112617.C12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:26:17 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , Mark Ovens Cc: Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) References: <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <3685208E.DE0DD5F@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 11:04:48AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 11:04:48 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 05:44 PM 12/26/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > >> If you wandered around the North West of England where I'm from >> originally I hope that you didn't come across the expression "Can I bum >> a fag"[1], which has a *totally* different meaning to an American ;-) > > Several times while I was in England, people did ask me, "Fag?" > > Yes, had I not understood the local usage, I might not have understood > that this was intended to be a friendly offer. > > On the other hand, as a non-smoker, I found myself distinctly in the > minority. I have never seen such a high incidence of tobacco addiction! > The Europeans conquered America, but the Native Americans apparently > have retaliated by conquering Europe. > > Even in venues clearly marked as non-smoking (such as the basement of > the legendary Tron folk club in Edinburgh), folks couldn't stand the > notion of going outside to smoke (or maybe just couldn't wait). They > tried, ineffectively, to hide cigarettes, which drove my new wife's > allergies crazy. You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is even higher on the mainland. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 17:05:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20912 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:05:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20905 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:05:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA15556; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:05:23 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226180014.057aee50@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:01:09 -0700 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) In-Reply-To: <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> References: <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:23 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> And almost daily, we hear Microsoft referred to as >>> a "JUG-ger-naut" (the original Hindi is "ja-ga-NATH," a name for >>> the god Vishnu). > >Well, you could hardly talk about ``original Hindi'' in this context. >Obviously it derives from Vedic via Sanskrit, and there's still some >dispute about how the accents evolved. And considering it means >``Lord of the Earth'', it's a sobering thought when applied to >Microsoft. See my editorial on this very subject in the April/May 1998 issue of Visual Developer magazine. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 17:05:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20968 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:05:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20961 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:05:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA15559; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:05:25 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226180206.059326b0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:03:51 -0700 To: Greg Lehey , Mark Ovens From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) Cc: Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981227112617.C12346@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <3685208E.DE0DD5F@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is >even higher on the mainland. Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 17:09:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21356 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:09:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21349 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA22018; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:38:35 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA26268; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:38:37 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981227113836.D12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:38:36 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Sue Blake , Brett Glass Cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> <19981227085040.45844@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981227085040.45844@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 08:50:40AM +1100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 8:50:40 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > On Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 02:32:37PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >> At 08:00 AM 12/27/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: >> >>> Close, Brett, but you still don't seem to get it. >> >> Yes, I do get it, in all its inglorious vulgarity. > > Oh, I see. You get it, but you're not rude enough to spell it out. In > fact you'll risk being misinterpreted to avoid being seen as indelicate > to your part of the world. But you are naughty enough to continue using > a word that is potentially highly offensive to us (and Australians are > *not* easily offended by words). Bloody typical :-) To quote a letter published in ``The Australian'' (a newspaper founded by a local Adelaide bloke made good) the other day, in connection with the Clinton impeachment: The first Americans were puritans. The first Australians were convicts. We were lucky. >> In America, the word "ass" is, in some contexts, used to refer >> to that part of the anatomy, too. As in "piece of ~". (See an >> unabridged American dictionary or, again, the OED.) > > Oh, I've always thought that phrase was a euphemism, referring to a > nearby place to feebly hide the real target, rather than actually > naming a different place. Doubtless it originally was. How do these words get their meaning? Usually it's a transfer of meaning from a more harmless term. Look at the word ``bathroom'', which means ``toilet'' in America. Of course, ``toilet'' itself was a euphemism (meaning, roughly, washroom). I once lived in a house where there was no toilet in the bathroom (it was in a separate room). Americans would ask for the bathroom, we'd show them how to get there, and after a while they'd come back and say ``how do you flush that thing'', indicating the bidet. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 17:10:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21502 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:10:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21495 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:10:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA22030; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:39:54 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA26284; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:39:56 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981227113956.E12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:39:56 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224112052.05a31740@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226180014.057aee50@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226180014.057aee50@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 06:01:09PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 18:01:09 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:23 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>>> And almost daily, we hear Microsoft referred to as >>>> a "JUG-ger-naut" (the original Hindi is "ja-ga-NATH," a name for >>>> the god Vishnu). >> >> Well, you could hardly talk about ``original Hindi'' in this context. >> Obviously it derives from Vedic via Sanskrit, and there's still some >> dispute about how the accents evolved. And considering it means >> ``Lord of the Earth'', it's a sobering thought when applied to >> Microsoft. > > See my editorial on this very subject in the April/May 1998 issue of > Visual Developer magazine. URL? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 17:11:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21678 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:11:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21669 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:11:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gerry-lois@webtv.net) Received: from mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-122.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.90]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id RAA17529; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA29454; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:11:34 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhQFLdqJR09nRMsSwGsklJtmKmK2BwIVAKLYXHsFIRpY4EcYaIjxhTrPY30j From: gerry-lois@webtv.net (gerry seeley) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:11:34 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <28723-36858946-3067@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 17:37:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23639 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:37:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23634 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:37:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA15762; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:37:12 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226183321.05808b90@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:35:46 -0700 To: Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Of Microsoft and Juggernauts (Was: Regulated names) In-Reply-To: <19981227113956.E12346@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.1.19981226180014.057aee50@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981224112052.05a31740@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226180014.057aee50@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:39 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> Well, you could hardly talk about ``original Hindi'' in this context. >>> Obviously it derives from Vedic via Sanskrit, and there's still some >>> dispute about how the accents evolved. And considering it means >>> ``Lord of the Earth'', it's a sobering thought when applied to >>> Microsoft. >> >> See my editorial on this very subject in the April/May 1998 issue of >> Visual Developer magazine. > >URL? Oops; they didn't put it online, so I'll post it here. Of Microsoft and Juggernauts by Brett Glass (First published in Visual Developer magazine) Of late, the computer trade press has had much to say about Microsoft, its business practices, and its ongoing struggle with the US Department of Justice. While the press (like everyone else) differs in is perception of the company, on may observe that the coverage seems to follow one nearly inviolable rule: at least once in every publication, an article must describe the Microsoft Corporation as a "juggernaut." Interesting term, that. While most of the reading public has a sense that the word means "something large and difficult to stop," very few know its rather fascinating origins -- much less its implications. And so, in the interest of enlightenment and education, we interrupt our usual, witty back-page banter to take you to an exotic scene long ago and far away: India at the time of the British occupation. In the Indian city of Puri stands a great temple dedicated to the Hindu god Vishu -- whose name, in the local dialect, happens to be "Jagganath." Each year, the residents of the city -- perhaps in an effort to boost the local economy -- hold an annual festival in honor of the god. Pilgrims from throughout the subcontinent flock to Puri to worship at the temple. The highlight of the festival is a great parade, whose featured attraction is a wagon bearing a huge stone statue of the deity (whose name the British heard and mispronounced "Juggernaut"). To the amazement of the British observers, devotees of the god demonstrated their religious zeal by throwing themselves to the ground in the middle of the street and prostrating themselves before the oncoming idol. The British further reported that the worshippers -- misjudging the massive vehicle's speed, or perhaps unable to elbow their way back into the crowd lining the street -- were frequently injured or crushed to death by the "Car of Juggernaut" as it lumbered on. We thus see that the application of the term "juggernaut" to Microsoft is ironic for three reasons. First, it unwittingly characterizes Microsoft not as a shrewd deity but as an idol -- a graven image that crushes those in its way via sheer mass rather than intellect. More ironic still, it highlights an important truth: the innocents who are crushed are those who throw themselves beneath the wagon's wheels. "Why," you may ask, "did the poor Indians flattened beneath the Car of Juggernaut do something so obviously reckless and dangerous?" Yet, company after company puts itself at Microsoft's mercy and is crushed in the process. Borland, Citrix, Quarterdeck, Stac.... All have created products primarily or exclusively for Microsoft platforms and then found their markets destroyed or co-opted by Microsoft. Users, too -- even some of the largest corporations -- make themselves dependent upon Microsoft's proprietary protocols, file formats, applications, and environments. They are then severely injured when the "deity" turns hostile (for example, by raising site license and support fees) or hurts these poor mortals via sheer carelessness (e.g. by introducing bugs and security holes). Finally, the third, and most delicious irony is this: the press, following the corporate lemmings over the cliff, brands as zealots those who DON'T throw themselves beneath the wagon wheels, rather than those who do. Conclusions, as usual, are left as an exercise for the reader. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 18:15:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26436 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:15:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26426 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:15:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4005.ime.net [209.90.195.15]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA25323; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:14:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226210926.009b6430@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:09:50 -0500 To: Brett Glass , Greg Lehey , Mark Ovens From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) Cc: Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226180206.059326b0@mail.lariat.org> References: <19981227112617.C12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <3685208E.DE0DD5F@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:03 PM 12/26/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is >>even higher on the mainland. > >Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about >the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their >willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. .... And to think, I get griped at for stupider threads than this... :-) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 18:32:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28156 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:32:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28148 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:32:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA22272; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:01:51 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id NAA26435; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:01:53 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981227130153.J12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:01:53 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Drew Baxter , Brett Glass , Mark Ovens Cc: Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <3685208E.DE0DD5F@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981226180206.059326b0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981226210926.009b6430@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226210926.009b6430@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 09:09:50PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 21:09:50 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 06:03 PM 12/26/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >> At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >>> You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is >>> even higher on the mainland. >> >> Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about >> the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their >> willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. > > .... > > And to think, I get griped at for stupider threads than this... :-) Sure. The stupider the message, the more likely you are to get griped at. Is that illogical? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 19:09:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00695 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:09:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00690 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:09:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA10016; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:09:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19981226190929.A9967@wopr.caltech.edu> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:09:29 -0800 From: Matthew Hunt To: Greg Lehey Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 11:23:55AM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 11:23:55AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > Not really. How do you pronounce ``laboratory''. Four syllables, > right? The Americans stretch five out of it. Dropping vowels is more > common elsewhere (as in French). In my experience, the five-syllable pronunciation occurs only in horror films, describing the workplace of a mad scientist. In usual conversation, "laboratory" is reduced to one syllable. -- Matthew Hunt * Science rules. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 19:38:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03401 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:38:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from taurus.oursc.k12.ar.us (taurus.oursc.k12.ar.us [165.29.134.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03395 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:38:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcoffman@taurus.oursc.k12.ar.us) Received: from localhost (jcoffman@localhost) by taurus.oursc.k12.ar.us (8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA17499 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:45:22 -0600 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:45:22 -0600 (CST) From: Jonnie Coffman To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: packet radio Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This seemed like the best place for this question. Can anyone point me a web page or ftp site that has packet radio software for FreeBSD? Jonnie Coffman, KC5JFS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 19:57:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05590 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:57:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05585 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4044.ime.net [209.90.195.54]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA08374; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:56:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:54:00 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , Brett Glass , Mark Ovens From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) Cc: Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981227130153.J12346@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.1.19981226210926.009b6430@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <3685208E.DE0DD5F@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981226180206.059326b0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981226210926.009b6430@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:01 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 21:09:50 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >> At 06:03 PM 12/26/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >>> At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> >>>> You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is >>>> even higher on the mainland. >>> >>> Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about >>> the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their >>> willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. >> >> .... >> >> And to think, I get griped at for stupider threads than this... :-) > >Sure. The stupider the message, the more likely you are to get griped >at. Is that illogical? And how long has this regulated name thing been going on? :-) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 20:03:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05872 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:03:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05866 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:03:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA22536; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:32:25 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id OAA27178; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:32:26 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981227143226.P12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:32:26 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Drew Baxter , Brett Glass , Mark Ovens Cc: Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Crazy laws (was: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws))) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <3685208E.DE0DD5F@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981226180206.059326b0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981226210926.009b6430@genesis.ispace.com> <19981227130153.J12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 10:54:00PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 22:54:00 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 01:01 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 21:09:50 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >>> At 06:03 PM 12/26/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >>>> At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>> >>>>> You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is >>>>> even higher on the mainland. >>>> >>>> Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about >>>> the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their >>>> willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. >>> >>> .... >>> >>> And to think, I get griped at for stupider threads than this... :-) >> >> Sure. The stupider the message, the more likely you are to get griped >> at. Is that illogical? > > And how long has this regulated name thing been going on? :-) You mean the original topic? Names in Germany? Probably forever. I'd guess that it has its origins in the Church. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 20:11:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06431 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:11:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab.cba.ualr.edu (lab.cba.ualr.edu [144.167.120.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06426 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:11:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@lab.cba.ualr.edu) Received: from access52.mod1.ualr.edu (joe@access52.mod1.ualr.edu [144.167.7.52]) by lab.cba.ualr.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16177; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:17:11 -0600 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:10:53 -0600 (EST) From: joe X-Sender: joe@njal.ualr.edu To: Drew Baxter cc: Greg Lehey , Brett Glass , Mark Ovens , Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 01:01 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 21:09:50 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > >> At 06:03 PM 12/26/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > >>> At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>> > >>>> You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is > >>>> even higher on the mainland. > >>> > >>> Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about > >>> the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their > >>> willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. > >> > >> .... > >> > >> And to think, I get griped at for stupider threads than this... :-) > > > >Sure. The stupider the message, the more likely you are to get griped > >at. Is that illogical? > Is "stupider" an actual word? > And how long has this regulated name thing been going on? :-) For a few days now, and even branching off from topics such the phonetics of various languages to tobacco use of the Brits...even thought of contributing to it myself...ooops, already did 8-) > > --- > Drew "Droobie" Baxter > Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) > OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA > http://www.droo.orland.me.us > > PGP ID: 409A1F7D > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 20:22:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA07150 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:22:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA07143 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:22:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA22571; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:51:28 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id OAA27219; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:51:29 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981227145129.Q12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:51:29 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: joe , Drew Baxter Cc: Brett Glass , Mark Ovens , Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) References: <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from joe on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 10:10:53PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 22:10:53 -0600, joe wrote: > On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > >> At 01:01 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 21:09:50 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >>>> At 06:03 PM 12/26/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >>>>> At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is >>>>>> even higher on the mainland. >>>>> >>>>> Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about >>>>> the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their >>>>> willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. >>>> >>>> .... >>>> >>>> And to think, I get griped at for stupider threads than this... :-) >>> >>> Sure. The stupider the message, the more likely you are to get griped >>> at. Is that illogical? >> > > Is "stupider" an actual word? Yes. It's the comparative of stupid. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 20:45:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08447 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:45:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab.cba.ualr.edu (lab.cba.ualr.edu [144.167.120.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08440 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:45:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@lab.cba.ualr.edu) Received: from access52.mod1.ualr.edu (joe@access52.mod1.ualr.edu [144.167.7.52]) by lab.cba.ualr.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16208; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:51:48 -0600 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:45:29 -0600 (EST) From: joe X-Sender: joe@njal.ualr.edu To: Greg Lehey cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) In-Reply-To: <19981227145129.Q12346@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 27 Dec 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 22:10:53 -0600, joe wrote: > > > > Is "stupider" an actual word? > > Yes. It's the comparative of stupid. > > Greg > -- Oh, it's one of those words that's grammatically correct but just doesn't sound right. I would say "more stupid" as oppose to "stupider". On the other hand, I would say "warmer" as oppose to "more warm". Funny how that works. -Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 21:23:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11704 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:23:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11698 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:23:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4044.ime.net [209.90.195.54]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA17403; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 00:22:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981227001919.00920a10@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 00:19:56 -0500 To: joe From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) Cc: Greg Lehey , Brett Glass , Mark Ovens , Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:10 PM 12/26/98 -0600, joe wrote: >On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > >> At 01:01 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 21:09:50 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >> >> At 06:03 PM 12/26/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >> >>> At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is >> >>>> even higher on the mainland. >> >>> >> >>> Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about >> >>> the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their >> >>> willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. >> >> >> >> .... >> >> >> >> And to think, I get griped at for stupider threads than this... :-) >> > >> >Sure. The stupider the message, the more likely you are to get griped >> >at. Is that illogical? >> > >Is "stupider" an actual word? > >> And how long has this regulated name thing been going on? :-) > >For a few days now, and even branching off from topics such the phonetics >of various languages to tobacco use of the Brits...even thought of >contributing to it myself...ooops, already did 8-) And this relates directly or even indirectly to FreeBSD *looks around* Where? :-) [I'm just asking the questions I get asked when I post irrelevant material] --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 21:55:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14110 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:55:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.reed.wattle.id.au (darren2.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.53.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14103 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:55:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au) Received: (from root@localhost) by firewall.reed.wattle.id.au (8.9.1/8.8.7) id FAA20901 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 05:55:37 GMT Received: from avalon.reed.wattle.id.au(192.168.1.1) by firewall.reed.wattle.id.au via smap (V1.3) id sma020899; Sun Dec 27 05:55:27 1998 Received: from percival.reed.wattle.id.au. (percival.reed.wattle.id.au [192.168.1.5]) by avalon.reed.wattle.id.au (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.Beta3) with SMTP id QAA12806; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:55:27 +1100 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199812270555.QAA12806@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Subject: Tell Microsoft they're a monopoly. To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:55:26 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This isn't an ad. for Bill, so please read on.. FWIW, recent browsing of Microsoft show they have a "public comment" page: http://www.microsoft.com/freedomtoinnovate/ I'd encourage all FreeBSD users to send both Microsoft and their local Congressperson their opinions on Microsoft (i.e. it's a huge monopoly, uses agressive tactics to prevent competition which is what's needed for true innovation). You will need to "register" with them before you can send the email and in doing so, I'd encourage you to supply real details rather than false ones so that it's harder for them to dismiss `negative' comments. I'm sure they're gathering quite a few positive comments (who else but Microsoft users would regularly check out that page ?) so I'm sure some down to earth real views are also required. Lets make sure we can use their own vehicle to their disadvantage!!!! Cheers, Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 22:13:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15643 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:13:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15627 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:13:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA22831; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:42:05 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA27934; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:42:07 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981227164207.W12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:42:07 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Drew Baxter , joe Cc: Brett Glass , Mark Ovens , Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) References: <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981227001919.00920a10@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981227001919.00920a10@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 12:19:56AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 0:19:56 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 10:10 PM 12/26/98 -0600, joe wrote: >> On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: >> >>> At 01:01 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>> On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 21:09:50 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >>>>> At 06:03 PM 12/26/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >>>>>> At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is >>>>>>> even higher on the mainland. >>>>>> >>>>>> Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about >>>>>> the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their >>>>>> willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. >>>>> >>>>> And to think, I get griped at for stupider threads than this... :-) >>>> >>>> Sure. The stupider the message, the more likely you are to get griped >>>> at. Is that illogical? >>> >>> And how long has this regulated name thing been going on? :-) >> >> For a few days now, and even branching off from topics such the phonetics >> of various languages to tobacco use of the Brits...even thought of >> contributing to it myself...ooops, already did 8-) > > And this relates directly or even indirectly to FreeBSD *looks around* > Where? :-) All around. Don't you see the well-known FreeBSD names in almost every message? > [I'm just asking the questions I get asked when I post irrelevant > material] Relevance depends on the forum. By definition almost anything goes on -chat: Non technical items related to the FreeBSD community This list contains the overflow from the other lists about non-technical, social information. It includes discussion about whether Jordan looks like a toon ferret or not, whether or not to type in capitals, who is drinking too much coffee, where the best beer is brewed, who is brewing beer in their basement, and so on. Occasional announcements of important events (such as upcoming parties, weddings, births, new jobs, etc) can be made to the technical lists, but the follow ups should be directed to this -chat list. So, tell me what a toon ferret is. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 22:17:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15777 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:17:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15772 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:17:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4044.ime.net [209.90.195.54]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA21470; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:16:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981227011314.00c39680@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:13:43 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , joe From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) Cc: Brett Glass , Mark Ovens , Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981227164207.W12346@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.1.19981227001919.00920a10@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981227001919.00920a10@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:42 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 0:19:56 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >> At 10:10 PM 12/26/98 -0600, joe wrote: >>> On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: >>> >>>> At 01:01 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>>> On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 21:09:50 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >>>>>> At 06:03 PM 12/26/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >>>>>>> At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is >>>>>>>> even higher on the mainland. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about >>>>>>> the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their >>>>>>> willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> And to think, I get griped at for stupider threads than this... :-) >>>>> >>>>> Sure. The stupider the message, the more likely you are to get griped >>>>> at. Is that illogical? >>>> >>>> And how long has this regulated name thing been going on? :-) >>> >>> For a few days now, and even branching off from topics such the phonetics >>> of various languages to tobacco use of the Brits...even thought of >>> contributing to it myself...ooops, already did 8-) >> >> And this relates directly or even indirectly to FreeBSD *looks around* >> Where? :-) > >All around. Don't you see the well-known FreeBSD names in almost >every message? > >> [I'm just asking the questions I get asked when I post irrelevant >> material] > >Relevance depends on the forum. By definition almost anything goes on >-chat: > > > Non technical items related to the FreeBSD community > > This list contains the overflow from the other lists about > non-technical, social information. It includes discussion about > whether Jordan looks like a toon ferret or not, whether or not to > type in capitals, who is drinking too much coffee, where the best > beer is brewed, who is brewing beer in their basement, and so > on. Occasional announcements of important events (such as > upcoming parties, weddings, births, new jobs, etc) can be made to > the technical lists, but the follow ups should be directed to > this -chat list. > >So, tell me what a toon ferret is. > Then why was I getting griped at for off-topic then? *grumble*.. I'm slowly learning I can't win.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 22:21:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16135 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:21:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16130 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:21:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA22874; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:50:20 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA27965; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:50:21 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981227165020.X12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:50:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Drew Baxter , joe Cc: Brett Glass , Mark Ovens , Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) References: <4.1.19981227001919.00920a10@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981227001919.00920a10@genesis.ispace.com> <19981227164207.W12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227011314.00c39680@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981227011314.00c39680@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 01:13:43AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 1:13:43 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 04:42 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 0:19:56 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >>> At 10:10 PM 12/26/98 -0600, joe wrote: >>>> On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: >>>> >>>>> At 01:01 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>>>> On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 21:09:50 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >>>>>>> At 06:03 PM 12/26/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >>>>>>>> At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is >>>>>>>>> even higher on the mainland. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about >>>>>>>> the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their >>>>>>>> willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And to think, I get griped at for stupider threads than this... :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Sure. The stupider the message, the more likely you are to get griped >>>>>> at. Is that illogical? >>>>> >>>>> And how long has this regulated name thing been going on? :-) >>>> >>>> For a few days now, and even branching off from topics such the phonetics >>>> of various languages to tobacco use of the Brits...even thought of >>>> contributing to it myself...ooops, already did 8-) >>> >>> And this relates directly or even indirectly to FreeBSD *looks around* >>> Where? :-) >> >> All around. Don't you see the well-known FreeBSD names in almost >> every message? >> >>> [I'm just asking the questions I get asked when I post irrelevant >>> material] >> >> Relevance depends on the forum. By definition almost anything goes on >> -chat: >> >> >> Non technical items related to the FreeBSD community >> >> This list contains the overflow from the other lists about >> non-technical, social information. It includes discussion about >> whether Jordan looks like a toon ferret or not, whether or not to >> type in capitals, who is drinking too much coffee, where the best >> beer is brewed, who is brewing beer in their basement, and so >> on. Occasional announcements of important events (such as >> upcoming parties, weddings, births, new jobs, etc) can be made to >> the technical lists, but the follow ups should be directed to >> this -chat list. >> >> So, tell me what a toon ferret is. >> > > Then why was I getting griped at for off-topic then? *grumble*.. On -chat? I can't imagine why. > I'm slowly learning I can't win.. Now maybe that's the answer. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 26 22:29:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16854 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:29:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16849 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:29:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4044.ime.net [209.90.195.54]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA22229; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:29:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981227012319.00c3b680@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:26:32 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , joe From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) Cc: Brett Glass , Mark Ovens , Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981227165020.X12346@freebie.lemis.com> References: <4.1.19981227011314.00c39680@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981227001919.00920a10@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981227001919.00920a10@genesis.ispace.com> <19981227164207.W12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227011314.00c39680@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Snip snip] At 04:50 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> Then why was I getting griped at for off-topic then? *grumble*.. > >On -chat? I can't imagine why. > Eh who knows.. I've learned to be brief and to the point.. >> I'm slowly learning I can't win.. > >Now maybe that's the answer. > Perhaps. It's always something.. either my mail client's formatting, or off-topic.. Griping is something I'm rather used to, the thing of working at a school in the middle of the sticks. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message