From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 00:21:23 1998
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References: <199801101201.EAA03942@love.MCCP.com>
From: gjp@erols.com (Gary Palmer)
Subject: Re: au files
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In article <199801101201.EAA03942@love.mccp.com>,
	gena@love.MCCP.com (Gena Gulchin) writes:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a bunch of AU (SUN audio) files.
> 
> Is there a sound player that can play them?

If you have a sound card configured:

cat <file> > /dev/audio

:)

Gary

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 02:55:32 1998
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From: Jim Bryant <jbryant@unix.tfs.net>
Message-Id: <199801111055.EAA01857@unix.tfs.net>
Subject: Re: au files
In-Reply-To: <199801110821.DAA07658@mutara.noc.erols.net> from Gary Palmer at "Jan 11, 98 03:21:08 am"
To: gjp@erols.com (Gary Palmer)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:55:16 -0600 (CST)
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In reply:
> In article <199801101201.EAA03942@love.mccp.com>,
> 	gena@love.MCCP.com (Gena Gulchin) writes:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I have a bunch of AU (SUN audio) files.
> > 
> > Is there a sound player that can play them?
> 
> If you have a sound card configured:
> 
> cat <file> > /dev/audio
> 
> :)
> 
> Gary


well, just to be sure, it might help to setup the mixer in
/etc/rc.local:

------------------------------------------------------------------

[...]

# put your local stuff here

echo -n "sshd"
sshd

echo '.'

echo "mixer settings."
/usr/sbin/mixer vol	100:100
/usr/sbin/mixer synth	100:100
/usr/sbin/mixer pcm	100:100
/usr/sbin/mixer line	100:100
/usr/sbin/mixer cd	100:100
/usr/sbin/mixer mic	0:0


cp `cat /etc/startup.sound` /dev/audio &

------------------------------------------------------------------

as an example, /etc/startup.sound contains the full path to a ren and
stimpy soundbyte:


/.2/au/all_systems_go.au


jim
-- 
All opinions expressed are mine, if you    |  "I will not be pushed, stamped,
think otherwise, then go jump into turbid  |  briefed, debriefed, indexed, or
radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!!      |  numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inet: jbryant@tfs.net    AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam     grid: EM28pw
voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM.   http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 03:02:18 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: FREENIX track at USENIX in New Orleans - still a few slots left!
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:02:22 -0800
Message-ID: <14843.884516542@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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We've still got room for a few more presentations in the FREENIX track
at USENIX this year, more information for which is available at
http://www.usenix.org/events/no98/index.html, and I just thought I'd
make one last call for papers.

If you'd like to submit a short abstract for a talk on FreeBSD or some
other piece of free software you're working on, *please* send email
to:
	freenix@zk3.dec.com

in the next day or two.  All you need submit right now is an abstract
and the still paper is something you still have a fair amount of time
to do, so don't be shy - it's not too late to submit something!

This is what a sample "ideal abstract" would look like according to
the FREENIX coordinator, Jon "Maddog" Hall:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presentation:
                ifmail - Fidonet(r) functionality for a UNIX-based host
                Eugene Crosser <crosser@average.org>

Abstract:
                ifmail is a freeware package running on a variety of
                UNIX platforms and performing two basic functions:
                1 - gateway Fidonet-format messages to/from Internet
                    news and email, and
                2 - implement Fidonet communication protoclols over
                    dialup serial lines.
                This functionality makes possible to setup gateways
                for email (converted to Fidonet Netmail), netnews
                (converted to Fidonet Echomail), or simply run a
                Fidonet system (point, node or hub) on a UNIX machine.
                Detailes on http://www.average.org/ifmail/

Time:
                10 - 30 minutes, or visual presentation on a stand.

Relationship:
                I am the author of the software.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


As you can see, it's very short and simple.  You have the topic (free
software), you have the email address (freenix@zk3.dec.com) and you
have the sample abstract above - what are you waiting for??  Help make
this year's USENIX the biggest and best gathering of FreeBSD talent
ever assembled in one place by SUBMITTING YOUR PAPER!! :-)

					Jordan

P.S. And if you do it for no other reason, do it because New Orleans
is a great city to spend a week with a bunch of geeks in. ;)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 03:04:19 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:04:08 -0800
From: Josef Grosch <jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org
Subject: Newly revised patch to calendar.judaic
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Enclosed is a newly revised patch to bring calendar.judaic current with the
common calendar. Thanks to Simon Shapiro for corrections and suggestions. 


Josef


------------------ENCLOSED-------------------ENCLOSED--------------------- 
*** /usr/src/usr.bin/calendar/calendars/calendar.judaic	Mon Feb 24 17:57:43 1997
--- calendar.judaic	Sat Jan 10 21:47:05 1998
***************
*** 1,41 ****
  /*
   * Judaic
   *
!  * $Id: calendar.judaic,v 1.2.2.1 1997/02/25 01:57:43 mpp Exp $
   */
  
  #ifndef _calendar_judaic_
  #define _calendar_judaic_
  
! 03/08*	Fast of Esther (Battle of Purim; 1 day before Purim; fast day)
! 03/11*	Purim (Feast of Lots; 30 days before Pesach)
! 03/12*	Purim (Feast of Lots)
! 04/10*	Pesach (First Day of Passover; sabbatical)
! 04/11*	Pesach (sabbatical)
! 04/16*	Pesach (sabbatical)
! 04/17*	Pesach (Last Day of Passover; 8th day of Pesach; sabbatical)
! 04/30*	Yom HaAtzmaut (Israel Independence Day)
! 05/13*	Lag Ba`omer (Commemoration of the Great Rebellion)
! 05/22*	Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem)
! 05/30*	Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; 50 days after Pesach; sabbatical)
! 05/31*	Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical)
! 07/10*	Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of Jerusalem;
! 	fast day)
! 07/31*	Fast of Tish'a B'Av (Babylon/Rome destroys Holy Temple; fast day)
! 09/20*	First Day of Rosh Hashanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5741 == 1980;
! 	sabbatical)
! 09/21*	Rosh Hashanah (sabbatical)
! 09/23*	Fast of Gedalya (Murder of Gedalya and subsequent Exile; 1 day
! 	after Rosh Hashanah; fast day)
! 09/29*	Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement; 9 days after Rosh Hashanah;
! 	sabbatical, fast day)
! 10/04*	Succos (Festival of Tabernacles; 14 days after Rosh Hashanah;
! 	sabbatical)
! 10/05*	Succos (sabbatical)
! 10/10*	Hoshanah Rabba (7th day of Succos)
! 10/11*	Shmini Atzeres (8th Day of Gathering; 1 day after Succos; sabbatical)
! 10/12*	Shmini Atzeres/Simchas Torah (Rejoicing of the Law; sabbatical)
! 12/12*	First Day of Chanukah
! 12/27*	Fast of Asara B'Tevet (Babylonians put siege on Jerusalem; fast day)
  
  #endif /* !_calendar_judaic_ */
--- 1,142 ----
  /*
   * Judaic
   *
!  * $Id: calendar.judaic,v 1.6 1998/01/11 05:47:04 jgrosch Exp $
   */
  
  #ifndef _calendar_judaic_
  #define _calendar_judaic_
  
! 01/03*  Parashat Va-Yiggah
! 01/08*  Fast of Tevet
! 01/10*  Parashat Va-Yehi
! 01/17*  Parashat Shemot
! 01/24*  Parashat Va-Era
! 01/24*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
! 01/28*  Rosh Chodesh Shevat (Beginning of the month of Shevat)
! 01/31*  Parashat Bo
! 02/07*  Parashat Be-Shallah
! 02/07*  Shabbat Shirah
! 02/11*  Tu bi-Shevat
! 02/14*  Parashat Yitro       
! 02/21*  Parashat Mishpatim
! 02/21*  Shekalim
! 02/21*  Shabbat Mevarekhim 
! 02/27*  Rosh Chodesh Adar (Beginning of the month of Adar) 
! 02/27*  Be happy, It's Adar !
! 02/28*  Parashat Terumah
! 03/07*  Parashat Tezavveh
! 03/07*  Zaklor
! 03/11*  Fast of Esther (Battle of Purim; 1 day before Purim; fast day)
! 03/12*  Purim (Feast of Lots; 30 days before Pesach)
! 03/13*  Shushan Purim
! 03/14*  Parashat Ki Tissa
! 03/21*  Parashat Va-Yakhel/Pekudei
! 03/21*  Parah
! 03/21*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
! 03/28*  Parashat Va-Yikra
! 03/28*  Rosh Chodesh Nisan (Beginning of the month of Nisan)
! 04/04*  Parashat Zav
! 04/04*  Shabbat ha-Gadol
! 04/10*  Fast of the First born
! 04/11*  Pesach (First Day of Passover; sabbatical)
! 04/12*  Pesach (Second Day of Passover; sabbatical)
! 04/12*  Sefirat ha-Omer begins (Counting of the Omer)
! 04/18*  Pesach (Last Day of Passover; 8th day of Pesach; sabbatical)
! 04/18*  Yizkor
! 04/23*  Yom ha-Sho'ah (Remembrance of the Holocaust)
! 04/25*  Parashat Shemini
! 04/25*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
! 04/27*  Rosh Chodesh Iyar (Beginning of the month of Iyar)
! 04/16*  Pesach (sabbatical)
! 04/30*  Yom ha-Atzmaut (Israel Independence Day)
! 05/02*  Parashat Tazria/Mezora
! 05/09*  Parashat Aharei Mot/Kedoshim
! 05/09*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
! 05/14*  Lag Ba`omer (Commemoration of the Great Rebellion)
! 05/16*  Parashat Emor
! 05/23*  Parashat Be-Har/Be-Hukkotai
! 05/24*  Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem)
! 05/26*  Rosh Chodesh Sivan (Beginning of the month of Sivan)
! 05/30*  Parashat Be-Midbar
! 05/31*  Shavuot (Festival of Weeks; 50 days after Pesach; sabbatical)
! 06/01*  Shavuot (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical)
! 06/06*  Parashat Naso
! 06/13*  Parashat Be-Ha'alotkha
! 06/20*  Parashat Shelah
! 06/20*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
! 06/25*  Rosh Chodesh Tammuz (Beginning of the month of Tammuz)
! 06/27*  Parashat Korah   
! 07/04*  Parashat Hukkat
! 07/11*  Parashat Balak
! 07/12*  Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of Jerusalem; 
!         fast day)
! 07/18*  Parashat Pinhas
! 07/18*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
! 07/24*  Rosh Chodesh Av (Beginning of the month of Av)
! 07/25*  Parashat Mattot/Masei
! 08/01*  Parashat Devarim
! 08/01*  Shabbat Hazon
! 08/02*  Fast of Tish'a B'Av (Babylon/Rome destroys Holy Temple; fast day)
! 08/08*  Parashat Va-Ethannan
! 08/08*  Shabbat Nahamu
! 08/15*  Parashat Ekev
! 08/15*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
! 08/22*  Parashat Re'eh
! 08/23*  Rosh Chodesh Elul (Beginning of the month of Elul)
! 08/23*  First sounding of the Shofar
! 08/29*  Parashat Shofetim
! 09/05*  Parashat Ki Teze
! 09/12*  Parashat Ki Tavo
! 09/19*  Parashat Nizzavim
! 09/20*  Erev Rosh ha-Shanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5759; sabbatical)
! 09/21*  First Day of Rosh ha-Shanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5759; sabbatical)
! 09/21*  Rosh Chodesh Tishri (Beginning of the month of Tishri)
! 09/23*  Fast of Gedalya (Murder of Gedalya and subsequent Exile; 1 day
!         after Rosh Hashanah; fast day)
! 09/26*  Parashat Va-Yelekh
! 09/29*  Erev Yom Kippur
! 09/30*  Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement; 9 days after Rosh Hashanah;
!         sabbatical, fast day)
! 10/03*  Parashat Ha'azinu
! 10/05*  Sucot (Festival of Tabernacles; 14 days after Rosh Hashanah;
!         sabbatical)
! 10/06*  Sucot (sabbatical)
! 10/07*  Hol ha-Mo'ed
! 10/08*  Hol ha-Mo'ed
! 10/09*  Hol ha-Mo'ed
! 10/10*  Hol ha-Mo'ed
! 10/11*  Hoshana Rabba
! 10/12*  Shmini Atzeret (8th Day of Gathering; 1 day after Sucot; sabbatical)
! 10/13*  Shmini Atzeret/Simchas Torah (Rejoicing of the Law; sabbatical)
! 10/13*  Yizkor
! 10/17*  Parashat Bereshit
! 10/17*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
! 10/21*  Rosh Chodesh Heshvan (Beginning of the month of Heshvan)
! 10/24*  Parashat No'ah
! 10/31*  Parashat Lekh Lekha
! 10/10*  Hoshanah Rabba (7th day of Sucot)
! 11/07*  Parashat Va-Yera
! 11/14*  Parashat Hayyei Sarah
! 11/14*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
! 11/20*  Rosh Chodesh Kislev (Beginning of the month of Kislev)
! 11/21*  Parashat Toledot
! 11/28*  Parashat Va-Yeze
! 12/05*  Parashat Va-Yishlah
! 12/12*  Parashat Va-Yeshev
! 12/12*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
! 12/13*  Erev Hanukkah
! 12/14*  Hanukkah
! 12/15*  Hanukkah
! 12/16*  Hanukkah
! 12/17*  Hanukkah
! 12/18*  Hanukkah
! 12/19*  Hanukkah
! 12/20*  Hanukkah
! 12/21*  Hanukkah
! 12/19*  Parashat Mi-Kez
! 12/20*  Rosh Chodesh Tevet (Beginning of the month of Tevet)
! 12/26*  Parashat Va-Yiggash
! 
  
  #endif /* !_calendar_judaic_ */

------------------ENCLOSED-------------------ENCLOSED--------------------- 


-- 
Josef Grosch           | Another day closer to a |    FreeBSD 2.2.5
jgrosch@MooseRiver.com |   Micro$oft free world  | UNIX for the masses


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 03:43:18 1998
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To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net
cc: gjp@erols.com (Gary Palmer), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: au files 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:55:16 CST."
             <199801111055.EAA01857@unix.tfs.net> 
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Or use nas from ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/audio.

One advantage in using nas is that it can read a wide variety of 
audio format files also in the case of sun's .au files in can
correctly playback .au files at the frequency that they where
recorded.

Typically, multimedia related questions should be posted to the 
multimedia mailing list (multimedia@freebsd.org).

	Amancio



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 05:58:00 1998
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From: mika ruohotie <bsdhack@shadows.aeon.net>
Message-Id: <199801111402.QAA02310@shadows.aeon.net>
Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems...
In-Reply-To: <19980107115833.13310@ct.picker.com> from Randall Hopper at "Jan 7, 98 11:58:33 am"
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> Mike Smith:
> I'm also interested in seeing if a few things I found in the 2.2 version
> were/will be addressed.  E.g.:
> 
>    - Splash should auto-dismiss itself when booting gets to the syscons 
>      login prompt (i.e. not running xdm)

why not make it a user selectable?

so that a user would be able to choose an option where the splash is
left after the boot complites, maybe even putting on another image
all together, and until some special key combination (user definable)
is pressed, leave it at that. the key combination would drop it to the
normal syscons login. wouldnt hurt having that key comb being predefined.

falling back into that splash when logging out would be nice too.

that would be _very_ usefull for me for those customer firewall setups,
all the customer needs to know is if the system is up and running or
not, they dont need to be able to log in. to many people nowadays a
nice image on screen looks more "convincing" than a black login screen,
i'd assume many people considering "non gui" looking somewhat "old".

yes, i'd do that myself if i'd know how, maybe i know, it just sounds
too complicated for me.


mickey

ps. it'd also "secure" the servers at work, non admins would scare the
    screen (image of the deamon and text "touch this and i'm after you")

pss. i'm not thinking it as a method of secure anything, just to make it
     to look more "professional" or something

psss. these are just random ideas... =)))

pssss. yes, i can test things in at least one of my current machines

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 06:16:43 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:19:13 +0100
From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: K6 Problems...
References: <199801101454.QAA02481@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> <34B80293.407D@njcc.com>
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According to Ken Hansen:
> Doesn't the K6 present itself as a Super 486 - I know the K5 does...

Nope, it is a pentium-class CPU.

extract from my kernel compile file:

# -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
# CKELTIA
#
# Keltia main configuration file with:
# - DDB
# - CAM alpha code
#

# -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
# System options
#
machine		"i386"
cpu			"I586_CPU"
ident		"CKELTIA"
maxusers	20
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Thu Jan  8 00:49:00 CET 1998

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 06:46:09 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:46:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: make world problems...
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I know I am doing something wrong... I just need someone to tell me what

I issue a 'make -DWANT_LIBC_R world >/tmp/make.log 2>&1 &' and get the
following at the end of my make world (I have cvsuped a number of times
with no luck, I have not yet deleted my /usr/src directory and re-gotten
the whole thing.)

---
cc -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -DPTHREAD_KERNEL -D_THREAD_SAFE -I/usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/locale -DYP -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_detach
.c -o uthread_detach.o
/usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_detach.c:40: conflicting types for `pthread_detach'
/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/pthread.h:196: previous declaration of `pthread_detach'
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.

--
David Cross
UNIX Systems Administrator
GE Corporate R&D


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 07:56:10 1998
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With the upcoming Alpha stuff, it looks like there are going to be 
some problems..... I'm assuming that a `long' is gonna be 64 bits 
rather than 32.

Certainly, the ppp code expects a u_long to be 32bits, and even uses 
u_longs all over the place when writing network data.  I'll bet it's 
not the only guilty party.

The OpenBSD sys/types.h has the following:
/*
 * XPG4.2 states that inclusion of <netinet/in.h> must pull these
 * in and that inclusion of <sys/socket.h> must pull in sa_family_t.
 * We put there here because there are other headers that require
 * these types and <sys/socket.h> and <netinet/in.h> will indirectly
 * include <sys/types.h>.  Thus we are compliant without too many hoops.
 */
typedef u_int32_t       in_addr_t;      /* base type for internet address */
typedef u_int16_t       in_port_t;      /* IP port type */
typedef u_int8_t        sa_family_t;    /* sockaddr address family type */

I'd like to bring this into -current.  Are there any objections ?

Also, what's the plan with things like htonl() and ntohl() ?  I am 
assuming they'll stay 32bit despite their name.... or will they ?

We could also have hton16(), ntoh16(), hton32() and ntoh32().

If these changes are ok, I'd also like to change __FreeBSD_version 
(in osreldate.h) to 300002 so that the ports will have a chance of 
using them (if they wish).

-- 
Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
      <http://www.Awfulhak.org>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 08:00:47 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:39:25 -0600 (CST)
From: Alex Nash <nash@mcs.net>
Subject: Re: make world problems...
To: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu
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On 11 Jan, David E. Cross wrote:
> I know I am doing something wrong... I just need someone to tell me what
> 
> I issue a 'make -DWANT_LIBC_R world >/tmp/make.log 2>&1 &' and get the
> following at the end of my make world (I have cvsuped a number of times
> with no luck, I have not yet deleted my /usr/src directory and re-gotten
> the whole thing.)
> 
> ---
> cc -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -DPTHREAD_KERNEL -D_THREAD_SAFE -I/usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libc_r/../libc/locale -DYP -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_detach
> .c -o uthread_detach.o
> /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_detach.c:40: conflicting types for `pthread_detach'
> /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/pthread.h:196: previous declaration of `pthread_detach'
> *** Error code 1

My fault (botched MFC).  You can apply the patch below to fix things.

Alex

Index: pthread.h
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/include/pthread.h,v
retrieving revision 1.2.2.2
retrieving revision 1.2.2.3
diff -c -r1.2.2.2 -r1.2.2.3
*** pthread.h	1997/06/24 04:32:27	1.2.2.2
--- pthread.h	1998/01/11 15:54:24	1.2.2.3
***************
*** 193,199 ****
  int		pthread_cond_wait __P((pthread_cond_t *, pthread_mutex_t *));
  int		pthread_create __P((pthread_t *, const pthread_attr_t *,
  			void *(*start_routine) (void *), void *));
! int		pthread_detach __P((pthread_t *));
  int		pthread_equal __P((pthread_t, pthread_t));
  void		pthread_exit __P((void *));
  void		*pthread_getspecific __P((pthread_key_t));
--- 193,199 ----
  int		pthread_cond_wait __P((pthread_cond_t *, pthread_mutex_t *));
  int		pthread_create __P((pthread_t *, const pthread_attr_t *,
  			void *(*start_routine) (void *), void *));
! int		pthread_detach __P((pthread_t));
  int		pthread_equal __P((pthread_t, pthread_t));
  void		pthread_exit __P((void *));
  void		*pthread_getspecific __P((pthread_key_t));



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 09:24:01 1998
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From: Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>
Message-Id: <199801111720.SAA05066@ocean.campus.luth.se>
Subject: Weird syscons errors
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:20:32 +0100 (CET)
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Hi!

After having built the world and kernel from something like midnight
yesterday (CET) I have this weird problem that I didn't have with a kernel
from late december. Anyone else seen this? I have noticed syscons changes
lately, and I'm wondering if they screwed anything up.

What happens is that after the probe messages have come up, I get no more
output. The computer continues to boot to full multiuser mode, and I can
log in, but I have to do it "blindly". There seems to be no way to the
console into displaying anything except those frozen boot messages.
If I log in and and vidconrol "VGA_80x50", for example, the mode _does_
change, but the text doesn't. And I can switch vtys, but without any real
significant change. Only way I could tell that switching vtys worked was
because I had one vty in VGA_80x50 mode. If I start X11, it will switch
to graphic mode just fine, and run in X11. Then when I exit X11, I get
the same crap again.

So... What's wrong? Anyone else seen this?

  /Mikael

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 10:06:45 1998
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Message-ID: <19980111190408.ME25769@@>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:04:08 +0100
From: pb@fasterix.freenix.org (Pierre Beyssac)
To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Weird syscons errors
References: <199801111720.SAA05066@ocean.campus.luth.se>
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Mikael Karpberg writes:
> What happens is that after the probe messages have come up, I get no more
> output. The computer continues to boot to full multiuser mode, and I can
> log in, but I have to do it "blindly". There seems to be no way to the
> console into displaying anything except those frozen boot messages.

I have noticed a slightly similar problem. Only it does work after
bootup.

Everything worked fine for a while, then I started a:

	nice time make buildworld | tee /tmp/buildworld

on the console. It worked for some time, but now the console ouptut
is stuck on compiling chmod.c, while the make is still running
perfectly ok.
-- 
Pierre Beyssac	      pb@fasterix.frmug.org pb@fasterix.freenix.org
{Free,Net,Open}BSD, Linux : il y a moins bien, mais c'est plus cher
    Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 10:13:54 1998
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To: Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Weird syscons errors 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:20:32 +0100."
             <199801111720.SAA05066@ocean.campus.luth.se> 
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From: Brian Somers <brian@awfulhak.org>
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> Hi!
> 
> After having built the world and kernel from something like midnight
> yesterday (CET) I have this weird problem that I didn't have with a kernel
> from late december. Anyone else seen this? I have noticed syscons changes
> lately, and I'm wondering if they screwed anything up.
> 
> What happens is that after the probe messages have come up, I get no more
> output. The computer continues to boot to full multiuser mode, and I can
> log in, but I have to do it "blindly". There seems to be no way to the
> console into displaying anything except those frozen boot messages.
> If I log in and and vidconrol "VGA_80x50", for example, the mode _does_
> change, but the text doesn't. And I can switch vtys, but without any real
> significant change. Only way I could tell that switching vtys worked was
> because I had one vty in VGA_80x50 mode. If I start X11, it will switch
> to graphic mode just fine, and run in X11. Then when I exit X11, I get
> the same crap again.
> 
> So... What's wrong? Anyone else seen this?

You're not alone.

The thing that hurts me most is that I did a few kernel installs 
today, and now cvsup doesn't work (gasp).

However, my gateway machine is still -stable (bought specifically for 
this sort of eventuality - phew).  I can connect and grab mail and 
stuff still :-)

As far as fixing it..... dunno, I don't really pay attention to 
syscons commits (but there were a few in the last day or so).  My 
bets are on the dead-key support :-)

>   /Mikael

-- 
Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
      <http://www.Awfulhak.org>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 10:15:27 1998
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From: Tim Vanderhoek <ac199@hwcn.org>
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Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org
To: Andreas Klemm <andreas@klemm.gtn.com>
cc: papowell@astart.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: LPRng and FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <19980110153220.58113@klemm.gtn.com>
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On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Andreas Klemm wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 07:04:07PM -0800, papowell@astart.com wrote:
> > I am the developer of the LPRng print spooler software - a replacement
> > for the BSD LPR spooler.  I would like to contact the BSD distribution
> > group and recommend that they replace their BSD LPR distribution with
> > LPRng,  or offer it as an alternative.

It's also briefly discussed in the handbook section on setting up
one's printer.  WRT to our current lpr, I think that wollman has
been doing some work of some sort on it.


--
 tIM...HOEk
OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names
              hoping that the resultant code will run faster.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 10:16:07 1998
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To: Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Weird syscons errors 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:20:32 +0100."
             <199801111720.SAA05066@ocean.campus.luth.se> 
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> Hi!
> 
> After having built the world and kernel from something like midnight
> yesterday (CET) I have this weird problem that I didn't have with a kernel
> from late december. Anyone else seen this? I have noticed syscons changes
> lately, and I'm wondering if they screwed anything up.
> 
> What happens is that after the probe messages have come up, I get no more
> output. The computer continues to boot to full multiuser mode, and I can
> log in, but I have to do it "blindly". There seems to be no way to the
> console into displaying anything except those frozen boot messages.
> If I log in and and vidconrol "VGA_80x50", for example, the mode _does_
> change, but the text doesn't. And I can switch vtys, but without any real
> significant change. Only way I could tell that switching vtys worked was
> because I had one vty in VGA_80x50 mode. If I start X11, it will switch
> to graphic mode just fine, and run in X11. Then when I exit X11, I get
> the same crap again.
> 
> So... What's wrong? Anyone else seen this?

Yep.  Go to /sys/net/i386/isa/syscons.c 1.242 and the problem will go 
away.

>   /Mikael

-- 
Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
      <http://www.Awfulhak.org>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 10:30:39 1998
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From: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1aky_P=E9rez_Gonz=E1lez?= <inaky@peloncho.fis.ucm.es>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Development of a UNIX-wide USB standard API
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Thankyou for dropping in...

BTW I've redirected this to 'hackers@freebsd.org
as that's where development occurs (and in 'current')

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, [ISO-8859-1] Iñaky Pérez González wrote:

> 
>         Hi
> 
>         I'm the developer of the Linux USB Driver Stack. I wanted to
> let you know there's some interest at the USB Implementors Forum in
> the creation of a UNIX-wide USB API standard, and we'd like all
> flavours of Unix to attend.
> 
>         For the case you don't know what USB is (if you do, please
> skip this paragraph): USB is the Universal Serial Bus, developed by a
> consortim of vendors (all the "fatcats"). If features plug'n'play, hot
> pluggin, tree structure, synchronous and asynchronous operation with
> guaranteed bandwidth and two speeds, with a maximum of 127 devices per
> physical bus. You can find more detailed info at http://www.usb.org.
> 
>         Initially I was developing a Linux-only driver, however I
> started to try to make it portable to other free OSes. Anyhow, one day
> the suggestion of a UNIX USB compatible API raised and we are trying
> to get something done. Initially we are just calling people to join
> and give ideas (actually interested parties have something done). As a
> start, there's interest for this from Solaris, Digital Unix and from
> me, for the Linux side (please mind that the commercial vendors still
> don't have an `official' position on this as it is still on it's very
> first discussions).
> 
>         If you are somehow interested, please drop me a mail.
> 
>         Thanks for your time
> 
> P.S.: Please, could you forward this mail to the OpenBSD people and any
>       other interested parties from BSD?
> 
> -- 
> 
>           Linux-USB! http://peloncho.fis.ucm.es/~inaky/USB.html -
>                                                                 -
>                 Inaky Perez Gonzalez --  PGP pubkey fingerprint -
>            inaky@peloncho.fis.ucm.es -- 8E 34 3A 62 64 99 E2 44 -
>    http://peloncho.fis.ucm.es/~inaky -- AD 7B 30 D9 DD FF 3E 4C -
>    --------------------------------- -- ----------------------- -
>    The loneliness of the long distance runner .....
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 11:20:44 1998
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Message-ID: <19980111141809.28521@homenet>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:18:09 -0500
From: Aaron Jeremias Luz <aaron@homenet>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: iijppp dynamic ip suggestions
Reply-To: aaron@csh.rit.edu
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I use iijppp at home to give a small network of machines access to
the Internet.  My provider assigns me a dynamic IP address, and my
local network is a simple TCP/IP 10base2 ethernet.  I run named
with authority for my private domain and a forwarders list pointing
to my ISP's nameservers.

I've had two problems with iijppp.  First, TCP FIN and RST packets
would cause a dial-up.  A one line hack fixed this, and could be
made more general.  Second, the initial packets sent out over the
modem would come back (if they came back at all) with the make-believe
IP address given to "set ifaddr".  An uglier hack fixed this by
aliasing (masquerading) only after the link had gone up and setting
up an IP alias (second address) for the tunnel device.

Of course, the initial packets are important since I run named and
not every connection with the Internet starts with a (remote) name
lookup.  I hope you will find my modifications interesting.  However,
let me be the first to admit they are the result of a quick, ugly
hacking session -- but perhaps they can inspire better solutions.

I have attached a diff against the directory /usr/src/usr.sbin/ppp
of 2.2.5-RELEASE.  (Sorry this is not a more current version, but
the changes are so minimal you can commit them by hand.)  I have also
included necessary parts of ppp.conf, ppp.linkup, and ppp.linkdown.

Aaron Luz
aaron@csh.rit.edu

diff -c ../ppp/ip.c ./ip.c
*** ../ppp/ip.c	Sat Jan 10 10:41:55 1998
--- ./ip.c	Sun Jan 11 10:15:37 1998
***************
*** 172,177 ****
--- 172,183 ----
  	      case IPPROTO_TCP:
  		cproto = P_TCP;
  		th = (struct tcphdr *) ptop;
+ 
+ 		/* XXX Hack: never allow TCP with FIN or RST flags set to */
+ 		/*     cause a dialup.					  */
+ 		if (direction == FL_DIAL && (th->th_flags & (TH_FIN | TH_RST)))
+ 			return (A_DENY);
+ 
  		sport = ntohs(th->th_sport);
  		dport = ntohs(th->th_dport);
  		estab = (th->th_flags & TH_ACK);
***************
*** 471,476 ****
--- 477,485 ----
      if (queue->top) {
        bp = Dequeue(queue);
        if (bp) {
+ 	if (mode & MODE_ALIAS) {
+ 	  VarPacketAliasOut(MBUF_CTOP(bp), MAX_MRU);
+ 	}
  	cnt = plength(bp);
  	SendPppFrame(bp);
  	RestartIdleTimer();
diff -c ../ppp/main.c ./main.c
*** ../ppp/main.c	Sat Jan 10 17:21:17 1998
--- ./main.c	Sun Jan 11 10:22:02 1998
***************
*** 311,316 ****
--- 311,317 ----
  {
    if (VarTerm) {
      fprintf(VarTerm, "User Process PPP. Written by Toshiharu OHNO.\n");
+     fprintf(VarTerm, "WARNING: hacked version.\n");
      fflush(VarTerm);
    }
  }
***************
*** 982,988 ****
  	      VarPacketAliasIn(rbuff, sizeof rbuff);
  	      n = ntohs(((struct ip *) rbuff)->ip_len);
  	    }
! 	    bp = mballoc(n, MB_IPIN);
  	    bcopy(rbuff, MBUF_CTOP(bp), n);
  	    IpInput(bp);
  	    LogPrintf(LogDEBUG, "Looped back packet addressed to myself\n");
--- 983,990 ----
  	      VarPacketAliasIn(rbuff, sizeof rbuff);
  	      n = ntohs(((struct ip *) rbuff)->ip_len);
  	    }
! 	    /* XXX MAX_MRU was n, wasteful but makes aliasing easier. */
! 	    bp = mballoc(MAX_MRU, MB_IPIN);
  	    bcopy(rbuff, MBUF_CTOP(bp), n);
  	    IpInput(bp);
  	    LogPrintf(LogDEBUG, "Looped back packet addressed to myself\n");
***************
*** 999,1008 ****
        if (LcpFsm.state <= ST_CLOSED && (mode & MODE_AUTO)) {
  	pri = PacketCheck(rbuff, n, FL_DIAL);
  	if (pri >= 0) {
- 	  if (mode & MODE_ALIAS) {
- 	    VarPacketAliasOut(rbuff, sizeof rbuff);
- 	    n = ntohs(((struct ip *) rbuff)->ip_len);
- 	  }
  	  IpEnqueue(pri, rbuff, n);
  	  dial_up = TRUE;	/* XXX */
  	}
--- 1001,1006 ----
***************
*** 1010,1019 ****
        }
        pri = PacketCheck(rbuff, n, FL_OUT);
        if (pri >= 0) {
- 	if (mode & MODE_ALIAS) {
- 	  VarPacketAliasOut(rbuff, sizeof rbuff);
- 	  n = ntohs(((struct ip *) rbuff)->ip_len);
- 	}
  	IpEnqueue(pri, rbuff, n);
        }
      }
--- 1008,1013 ----

from /etc/ppp/ppp.conf
myisp:
 set phone ...
 set login ...
 load fake-route

fake-route:
 set ifaddr 10.0.0.1/0 10.0.0.2/0
 delete ALL
 add 0 0 10.0.0.2
 set openmode active

/etc/ppp/ppp.linkup
myisp:
 delete ALL
 add 0 0 HISADDR
 shell ifconfig tun0 10.0.0.1 HISADDR alias

/etc/ppp/ppp.linkdown
myisp:
 shell ifconfig tun0 10.0.0.1 delete
 load fake-route

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 11:42:40 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:10:42 +0200 (IST)
From: Nadav Eiron <nadav@cs.technion.ac.il>
X-Sender: nadav@csd
To: Simon Shapiro <shimon@simon-shapiro.org>
cc: Josef Grosch <jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com>,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: RE: Patch to calendar.judaic
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On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote:

> 
> On 10-Jan-98 Josef Grosch wrote:
> > Enclosed is a patch to bring calendar.judaic current with the common
> > calendar. Mike Pritchard did the last revision but he seems to have
> > dropped
> > off. The person who reviews this patch should be famillular with the
> > Judaic
> > calendar and Hebrew to English trasliterations.
> 
> Few comments embedded (Yes, I do speak Hebrew :-)
> 
> Generally, an ending Tav, is pronouced by Easter-European Jews as a soft
> `s', and by Israelie's as `t'.  Historically, it was pronounced as a soft
> `th' more than either version.

A 'th' is also the transcription approved by the Hebrew Language Academy,
though most Israelies will write a 't'.

Nadav


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 11:42:53 1998
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From: "Þorður Ivarsson" <totii@est.is>
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MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Brian Somers <brian@awfulhak.org>
CC: Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Weird syscons errors
References: <199801111804.SAA28751@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>
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Brian Somers wrote:
> 
> > Hi!
> >
> > After having built the world and kernel from something like midnight
> > yesterday (CET) I have this weird problem that I didn't have with a kernel
> > from late december. Anyone else seen this? I have noticed syscons changes
> > lately, and I'm wondering if they screwed anything up.
> >
 
> As far as fixing it..... dunno, I don't really pay attention to
> syscons commits (but there were a few in the last day or so).  My
> bets are on the dead-key support :-)
> 

I am not sure of the actual code submitted by Yokota but I have been
running the beta code from yokota since november and it works fine on my
stable system! (I am one of the dead-key men! :-)

-- 
Þórður Ívarsson		Thordur Ivarsson
Rafeindavirki		Electronic technician
Norðurgötu 30		Nordurgotu 30
Box 309			Box 309
602 Akureyri		602 Akureyri
Ísland			Iceland

---------------------------------------------
FreeBSD has good features,
Some others are full of unwanted features!
---------------------------------------------

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 12:07:13 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:06:19 -0500
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: 16650 Support(?)
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    I recently bought a 16C650-based LavaPort ISA card to support the
230,400 bps capability of my ISDN modem.  It works fine under W95, but
does _not_ work fine under FBSD-current.

    I am able to talk to the modem only if I set the port speed to
9600 bps.  Any other speed fails to talk at all.  I assume that 9600bps
is the default speed of the chip, and the sio driver is failing to set
the speed correctly.

    Looking at sio.c, it would appear that the driver is intended to
work with 16650s, since there is a flag specifically intended for use
with the 16650's larger FIFO (flags 0x20000).

    Am I missing a necessary step to make this thing work, or is there
something non-standard about this card?  Anybody else have any experience
with the LavaPort ISA (aka LavaLink-650)?

    I am using the following line in my kernel config to configure the
LavaPort:

device		sio2	at isa? port "IO_COM3" tty flags 0x20000 irq 12 vector siointr

    Below is the dmesg output:

Copyright (c) 1992-1998 FreeBSD Inc.
Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
	The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.
FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sun Jan 11 13:44:04 EST 1998
    root@rhiannon.scsn.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/RHIANNON
CPU: Pentium (166.19-MHz 586-class CPU)
  Origin = "GenuineIntel"  Id = 0x52c  Stepping=12
  Features=0x1bf<FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,MCE,CX8>
real memory  = 33554432 (32768K bytes)
avail memory = 30547968 (29832K bytes)
Probing for devices on PCI bus 0:
chip0: <Intel 82439> rev 0x01 on pci0.0.0
chip1: <Intel 82371SB PCI to ISA bridge> rev 0x00 on pci0.7.0
ide_pci0: <Intel PIIX3 Bus-master IDE controller> rev 0x00 on pci0.7.1
ahc0: <Adaptec 2940 Ultra SCSI host adapter> rev 0x00 int a irq 10 on pci0.10.0
ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs
scbus0 at ahc0 bus 0
ahc0: target 0 Tagged Queuing Device
sd0 at scbus0 target 0 lun 0
sd0: <SEAGATE ST12550W 0002> type 0 fixed SCSI 2
sd0: Direct-Access 2040MB (4178874 512 byte sectors)
sd0: with 2708 cyls, 19 heads, and an average 81 sectors/track
ahc0: target 1 Tagged Queuing Device
sd1 at scbus0 target 1 lun 0
sd1: <FUJITSU M2684S-512 2036> type 0 fixed SCSI 2
sd1: Direct-Access 507MB (1039329 512 byte sectors)
sd1: with 2380 cyls, 6 heads, and an average 72 sectors/track
cd0 at scbus0 target 2 lun 0
cd0: <MATSHITA CD-ROM CR-508 XS03> type 5 removable SCSI 2
cd0: CD-ROM cd present [19371 x 2048 byte records]
vga0: <S3 968 graphics accelerator> rev 0x00 int a irq 11 on pci0.12.0
Probing for PnP devices:
CSN 1 Vendor ID: CTL009e [0x9e008c0e] Serial 0x09f665ec
Probing for devices on the ISA bus:
sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard
sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0>
lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa
lpt0: Interrupt-driven port
lp0: TCP/IP capable interface
sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa
sio0: type 16550A
sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa
sio1: type 16550A
sio2 at 0x3e8-0x3ef irq 12 flags 0x20000 on isa
sio2: type ST16650A
sio3 at 0x2e8-0x2ef irq 9 on isa
sio3: type 16550A
pca0 on motherboard
pca0: PC speaker audio driver
wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa
wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): <Maxtor 71336 AP>, DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-32
wd0: 1277MB (2615760 sectors), 2595 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S
fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa
fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold
fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in
npx0 on motherboard
npx0: INT 16 interface
sb0 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 on isa
snd0: <SoundBlaster 16 4.16> 
sbxvi0 at ? drq 5 on isa
snd0: <SoundBlaster 16 4.16> 
sbmidi0 at 0x330 on isa
snd0: <SoundBlaster MPU-401> 
opl0 at 0x388 on isa
snd0: <Yamaha OPL3 FM> 
awe0 at 0x620 on isa
AWE32 not found
AWE32: not detected
joy0 at 0x201 on isa
joy0: joystick
Intel Pentium F00F detected, installing workaround
ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers

(The 'AWE32 not found' stuff is just because I have not yet booted this kernel
with -c and configured the PnP stuff)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 13:00:20 1998
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From: Alex Nash <nash@mcs.net>
Subject: McKusick BSD internals course on videotape
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org, tech@openbsd.org
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  [ Apologies in advance for the commercial nature and wide crosspost of
    this message.  This email is an attempt to gain a valuable resource
    to the BSD/UNIX community.

    Please do not follow up to the list. ]

Many of you may be familiar with Dr. Marshall Kirk McKusick, one of
the driving forces behind BSD UNIX while at CSRG.  While CSRG is no
longer, Dr. McKusick continues his work within the UNIX community
through college courses, authoring books, and contributed source code.

Starting January 22nd, he will begin a 15 week course covering a
source code walkthrough of FreeBSD held at the University of
California Berkeley Extension.  You can find details about the course
at this URL:

    http://www.unex.berkeley.edu:4243/cat/eng22.html

In an attempt to convince Dr. McKusick to offer video taped versions
of the class to the many people that cannot attend, I took a survey on
freebsd-hackers to see how many people would be interested.  The
result of which is he has agreed to produce a set of videotapes if we
can get enough takers to offset the cost of production.

The details:

  o Each class is three hours long.  There are 15 classes.

  o Tapes will be mailed out each week (the actual time lag
    between the class and the mailing is unknown at this point).

  o The tapes may not be broadcast, duplicated and passed out or
    sold.

  o The total price would be $1500 for individual personal use, or
    $2500 for companies that will share the tape amongst more than
    one employee.  Payment can be made in a lump sum via check or
    credit card, or on a weekly basis by credit card.

  o The tapes will be available in NTSC format, PAL format should
    be available for an extra charge.

Dr. McKusick has suggested that we approach this on a class by class
basis.  That is, if enough people feel that the class does not fulfill
their needs after the first tape, then we can cancel the project.  As
long as there are enough subscribers to justify the production costs,
the taping continues.

If you're interested in signing up for this, or you have questions,
please contact me at nash@mcs.net.  DO NOT send any credit card or
other payment information, this will be handled by Dr. McKusick when
the time comes.  Please do send a note including your name, shipping
address, which pricing scheme (personal/corporate) you will be
using, and video format (NTSC or PAL).

Unfortunately we don't have a lot of time to reach critical mass on
this project -- in fact we only have about 5 days!

Alex



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 13:49:37 1998
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>> I'm also interested in seeing if a few things I found in the 2.2 version
>> were/will be addressed.  E.g.:
>> 
>> - Splash should auto-dismiss itself when booting gets to the syscons 
>> login prompt (i.e. not running xdm)
> why not make it a user selectable?
> so that a user would be able to choose an option where the splash is
> left after the boot complites, maybe even putting on another image
> all together, and until some special key combination (user definable)
> is pressed, leave it at that. the key combination would drop it to the
> normal syscons login. wouldnt hurt having that key comb being predefined.
> falling back into that splash when logging out would be nice too.

It would seem to me that your best bet would be to consider making a
custom version of 'getty' with libvgl, since getty is going to
determine how idle time between logins should be handled.  That's
pretty well out of syscons's jurisdiction.

Actually, making just such a thing just got put on my TODO list.

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 13:54:17 1998
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Subject: Re: au files
In-Reply-To: <199801111143.DAA01163@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Jan 11, 98 03:43:03 am"
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:52:12 +0100 (MET)
Cc: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, gjp@erols.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Amancio Hasty wrote:
> Or use nas from ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/audio.
> 
> One advantage in using nas is that it can read a wide variety of 
> audio format files also in the case of sun's .au files in can
> correctly playback .au files at the frequency that they where
> recorded.
> 
> Typically, multimedia related questions should be posted to the 
> multimedia mailing list (multimedia@freebsd.org).

Talking of audio stuff: is it possible to have /dev/pcaudio behaving
like a sound device? That would make it possible to play real audio
via the built in speaker.

-Guido

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 14:55:50 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:34:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: why 100 byte TCP segments?
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Yup, this seems to happen only with data between one and two mbuffs
in size, ie.  101-207 bytes or so.  Smaller and it fits in one
packet, between 208 and the MTU it is properly sent in one packet.

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Marc Slemko wrote:

> Note the below tcpdump:
> 
> 21:05:47.748479 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: S 761734757:761734757(0) win 16384 <mss 1460> (DF)
> 21:05:47.748749 testbed.worldgate.com.http > valis.worldgate.com.1034: S 1887037484:1887037484(0) ack 761734758 win 17520 <mss 1460> (DF)
> 21:05:47.749793 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: . ack 1 win 17520 (DF)
> 21:05:47.749809 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: P 1:101(100) ack 1 win 17520 (DF)
> 21:05:47.749823 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: FP 101:139(38) ack 1 win 17520 (DF)
> 21:05:47.749837 testbed.worldgate.com.http > valis.worldgate.com.1034: . ack 140 win 17482 (DF)
> 21:05:47.752540 testbed.worldgate.com.http > valis.worldgate.com.1034: F 1:1(0) ack 140 win 17520 (DF)
> 21:05:47.766014 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: . ack 2 win 17520 (DF)
> 
> valis is a FreeBSD 2.2 box.  The same thing happens on boxes from 2.1.5 to
> 2.2.5.  Don't have a -current box to try it...
> 
> The connection was generated by the below program.  Note that it is
> a single write() or send() call that generates the data, yet it
> is split into two packets.
> 
> While it isn't a big deal here, I noticed this when I was using a simple
> web benchmark program (ZeusBench) that doesn't disable the Nagle
> algorithm.  In that example, the server was delaying its ack (standard
> 200ms) and the client wasn't sending the second part of the request (due
> to Nagle) so you could only get 5 reqs/sec on a persistent connection, ie.
> multiple sequential requests on one TCP connection.  Disabling Nagle fixed
> this of course. 
> 
> Why is this happening?  Is it just a coincidence that 100 bytes
> is the size of the data area in the first mbuf in a chain?
> 
> Has it been fixed in -current or should I dig deeper...
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 15:08:50 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:09:22 GMT
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:06:19 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
Maddox) wrote:

>    I recently bought a 16C650-based LavaPort ISA card to support the
>230,400 bps capability of my ISDN modem.  It works fine under W95, but
>does _not_ work fine under FBSD-current.

The 650 support seems to be broken, so don't flag it as a 650.  Run it
as a 550 and it should work fine.  You still get the benefit of the
deeper FIFO, even when it's defined as a 550.  You don't get the auto
CTS/RTS flow control, but that has questionable value anyway.


John






From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 15:25:44 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:25:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>
To: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: why 100 byte TCP segments?
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Oh yeah, doesn't Stevens talk about this in TCP/IP Illustrated Vol. 3?
It's a particularly obnoxious problem because HTTP traffic so often falls
into the bad range.

Does anyone have any ideas/motivation to fix this, or should I start
researching it myself?  :-)

On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Marc Slemko wrote:

> Yup, this seems to happen only with data between one and two mbuffs
> in size, ie.  101-207 bytes or so.  Smaller and it fits in one
> packet, between 208 and the MTU it is properly sent in one packet.
> 
> On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Marc Slemko wrote:
> 
> > Note the below tcpdump:
> > 
> > 21:05:47.748479 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: S 761734757:761734757(0) win 16384 <mss 1460> (DF)
> > 21:05:47.748749 testbed.worldgate.com.http > valis.worldgate.com.1034: S 1887037484:1887037484(0) ack 761734758 win 17520 <mss 1460> (DF)
> > 21:05:47.749793 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: . ack 1 win 17520 (DF)
> > 21:05:47.749809 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: P 1:101(100) ack 1 win 17520 (DF)
> > 21:05:47.749823 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: FP 101:139(38) ack 1 win 17520 (DF)
> > 21:05:47.749837 testbed.worldgate.com.http > valis.worldgate.com.1034: . ack 140 win 17482 (DF)
> > 21:05:47.752540 testbed.worldgate.com.http > valis.worldgate.com.1034: F 1:1(0) ack 140 win 17520 (DF)
> > 21:05:47.766014 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: . ack 2 win 17520 (DF)
> > 
> > valis is a FreeBSD 2.2 box.  The same thing happens on boxes from 2.1.5 to
> > 2.2.5.  Don't have a -current box to try it...
> > 
> > The connection was generated by the below program.  Note that it is
> > a single write() or send() call that generates the data, yet it
> > is split into two packets.
> > 
> > While it isn't a big deal here, I noticed this when I was using a simple
> > web benchmark program (ZeusBench) that doesn't disable the Nagle
> > algorithm.  In that example, the server was delaying its ack (standard
> > 200ms) and the client wasn't sending the second part of the request (due
> > to Nagle) so you could only get 5 reqs/sec on a persistent connection, ie.
> > multiple sequential requests on one TCP connection.  Disabling Nagle fixed
> > this of course. 
> > 
> > Why is this happening?  Is it just a coincidence that 100 bytes
> > is the size of the data area in the first mbuf in a chain?
> > 
> > Has it been fixed in -current or should I dig deeper...
> > 
> 
> 



 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems." 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 15:34:39 1998
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From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: why 100 byte TCP segments?
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Aha.    Yes, section 14.11.

He suggests either knocking MINCLSIZE down to 101, increasing the
size of a mbuf from 128 to 256 bytes, or changing sosend to avoid
sending multiple packets when mbufs (instead of mbuf clusters) are
being used.

The last one may be a better solution, but the first is easier.
I can't see much in the way of bad side effects offhand to changing
MINCLSIZE... certainly not compared to how annoying this is.  It sucks
when it triggers slow start or Nagle especially with delayed acks.

On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Snob Art Genre wrote:

> Oh yeah, doesn't Stevens talk about this in TCP/IP Illustrated Vol. 3?
> It's a particularly obnoxious problem because HTTP traffic so often falls
> into the bad range.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas/motivation to fix this, or should I start
> researching it myself?  :-)
> 
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Marc Slemko wrote:
> 
> > Yup, this seems to happen only with data between one and two mbuffs
> > in size, ie.  101-207 bytes or so.  Smaller and it fits in one
> > packet, between 208 and the MTU it is properly sent in one packet.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 15:38:09 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:37:26 -0500
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
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Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
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John Kelly wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:06:19 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> Maddox) wrote:
> 
> >    I recently bought a 16C650-based LavaPort ISA card to support the
> >230,400 bps capability of my ISDN modem.  It works fine under W95, but
> >does _not_ work fine under FBSD-current.
> 
> The 650 support seems to be broken, so don't flag it as a 650.  Run it
> as a 550 and it should work fine.  You still get the benefit of the
> deeper FIFO, even when it's defined as a 550.  You don't get the auto
> CTS/RTS flow control, but that has questionable value anyway.
> 
> John

    Hmmm...  I originally configured it as a basic 16550, since
sio apparently doesn't have any support for >115.2Kbps anyway, but
even then it looked like the baud rate just couldn't be changed
from 9600.  I suppose it's possible that the LavaPort's interface
is non-standard(?)  Anybody have any experience with this card?

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 16:09:03 1998
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From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
Message-Id: <199801120007.TAA00316@dyson.iquest.net>
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
In-Reply-To: <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> from John Kelly at "Jan 12, 98 00:09:22 am"
To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:07:35 -0500 (EST)
Cc: dmaddox@scsn.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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John Kelly said:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:06:19 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> Maddox) wrote:
> 
> >    I recently bought a 16C650-based LavaPort ISA card to support the
> >230,400 bps capability of my ISDN modem.  It works fine under W95, but
> >does _not_ work fine under FBSD-current.
> 
> The 650 support seems to be broken, so don't flag it as a 650.  Run it
> as a 550 and it should work fine.  You still get the benefit of the
> deeper FIFO, even when it's defined as a 550.  You don't get the auto
> CTS/RTS flow control, but that has questionable value anyway.
> 
I have a 16650 based card, and it appears to work well.  It would be interesting
to figure out why mine works, and others don't.

-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 16:11:02 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:11:32 GMT
Message-ID: <34bf6bef.3609890@mail.cetlink.net>
References: <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:37:26 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
Maddox) wrote:

>    Hmmm...  I originally configured it as a basic 16550, since
>sio apparently doesn't have any support for >115.2Kbps anyway, but
>even then it looked like the baud rate just couldn't be changed
>from 9600.  I suppose it's possible that the LavaPort's interface
>is non-standard(?)  Anybody have any experience with this card?

A 650 is a 650 no matter what card it's on.  All programming of the
registers takes place on the UART, not the card.  Perhaps you are
doing something else wrong.

I have 650's on a Byterunner card working with my ISDN at 230k.  SIO
programs the UART with a value of "1" which is 115,200 for a 1x clock,
but 230,400 for a 2x clock.  The clock is controlled by a jumper on
the card and SIO doesn't care.  It only cares about writing the value
"1" to the appropriate UART register.

There is more to the story because of the clock selection bit in the
650 UART, but the details should be irrelevant for your purposes.

John




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 16:14:34 1998
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To: Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp
Subject: Re: Weird syscons errors 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:20:32 +0100."
             <199801111720.SAA05066@ocean.campus.luth.se> 
References: <199801111720.SAA05066@ocean.campus.luth.se> 
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:21:08 +0900
From: Kazutaka YOKOTA <yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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>What happens is that after the probe messages have come up, I get no more
>output. The computer continues to boot to full multiuser mode, and I can
>log in, but I have to do it "blindly". There seems to be no way to the
>console into displaying anything except those frozen boot messages.
>If I log in and and vidconrol "VGA_80x50", for example, the mode _does_
>change, but the text doesn't. And I can switch vtys, but without any real
>significant change. Only way I could tell that switching vtys worked was
>because I had one vty in VGA_80x50 mode. If I start X11, it will switch
>to graphic mode just fine, and run in X11. Then when I exit X11, I get
>the same crap again.

The recent change to syscons is addtion of dead key support in
syscons.c v1.243 and 1.244. The code has been running OK, here

Which keymap do you load upon boot? I made kbdcontrol to accept both
formats of keymaps: old format without dead keys and new format with
dead keys. It looks working here, but I may have screwed up things...

Apply the following patch to revert /sys/i386/isa/syscons.c to v1.242
which doesn't include the dead key support, and see if it works.

Kazu

begin 640 syscons.c-1.244-1.242.rev_diff.gz
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F3'W<A^C!_"//P8^"$RG+Y\RO4PD-7A]']D-] ^N_*1L_/:<3  !.
 
end

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 16:24:25 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:22:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Howard Lew <digital@www2.shoppersnet.com>
To: "Donald J. Maddox" <dmaddox@scsn.net>
cc: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
In-Reply-To: <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Donald J. Maddox wrote:

> John Kelly wrote:
> > 
> > On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:06:19 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> > Maddox) wrote:
> > 
> > >    I recently bought a 16C650-based LavaPort ISA card to support the
> > >230,400 bps capability of my ISDN modem.  It works fine under W95, but
> > >does _not_ work fine under FBSD-current.
> > 
> > The 650 support seems to be broken, so don't flag it as a 650.  Run it
> > as a 550 and it should work fine.  You still get the benefit of the
> > deeper FIFO, even when it's defined as a 550.  You don't get the auto
> > CTS/RTS flow control, but that has questionable value anyway.
> > 
> > John
> 
>     Hmmm...  I originally configured it as a basic 16550, since
> sio apparently doesn't have any support for >115.2Kbps anyway, but
> even then it looked like the baud rate just couldn't be changed
> from 9600.  I suppose it's possible that the LavaPort's interface
> is non-standard(?)  Anybody have any experience with this card?
> 

I am not sure about fbsd-current, but isn't 115200 the maximum serial port
speed supported by the sio driver (for example in 2.2-stable) ?

If so, is there a reason why it could not be set higher? (i.e. 230400)

in sioreg.h it has:
#define COMBRD(x)       (1843200 / (16*(x)))

Can this be recalculated for:
#define COMBRD(x)       (3686400 / (16*(x)))

and add a line to the comspeedtab in sio.c
        { 230400,       COMBRD(230400) },

and perhaps any necessary changes in delay time...




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 16:33:16 1998
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Message-ID: <19980111193227.04735@scsn.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:32:27 -0500
From: Charlie Root <root@scsn.net>
To: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
Cc: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>, dmaddox@scsn.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net
References: <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <199801120007.TAA00316@dyson.iquest.net>
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On Sun, Jan 11, 1998 at 07:07:35PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote:
> John Kelly said:
> > On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:06:19 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> > Maddox) wrote:
> > 
> > >    I recently bought a 16C650-based LavaPort ISA card to support the
> > >230,400 bps capability of my ISDN modem.  It works fine under W95, but
> > >does _not_ work fine under FBSD-current.
> > 
> > The 650 support seems to be broken, so don't flag it as a 650.  Run it
> > as a 550 and it should work fine.  You still get the benefit of the
> > deeper FIFO, even when it's defined as a 550.  You don't get the auto
> > CTS/RTS flow control, but that has questionable value anyway.
> > 
> I have a 16650 based card, and it appears to work well.  It would be interesting
> to figure out why mine works, and others don't.

    What kind of card do you have?  I assume it's not a LavaPort...


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 16:38:36 1998
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To: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: why 100 byte TCP segments? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:34:50 MST."
             <Pine.BSF.3.95.980111153144.10734d-100000@alive.znep.com> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
Reply-To: dg@root.com
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:35:37 -0800
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>Yup, this seems to happen only with data between one and two mbuffs
>in size, ie.  101-207 bytes or so.  Smaller and it fits in one
>packet, between 208 and the MTU it is properly sent in one packet.

   It's a known problem with the socket code that has existed in BSD forever.
I think Garrett put a work-around in by fudging some thresholds, but I may be
mistaken.

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 16:39:30 1998
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From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
Message-Id: <199801120039.TAA00461@dyson.iquest.net>
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
In-Reply-To: <19980111193227.04735@scsn.net> from Charlie Root at "Jan 11, 98 07:32:27 pm"
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:39:07 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, jak@cetlink.net, dmaddox@scsn.net,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Charlie Root said:
> On Sun, Jan 11, 1998 at 07:07:35PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote:
> > John Kelly said:
> > > On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:06:19 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> > > Maddox) wrote:
> > > 
> > > >    I recently bought a 16C650-based LavaPort ISA card to support the
> > > >230,400 bps capability of my ISDN modem.  It works fine under W95, but
> > > >does _not_ work fine under FBSD-current.
> > > 
> > > The 650 support seems to be broken, so don't flag it as a 650.  Run it
> > > as a 550 and it should work fine.  You still get the benefit of the
> > > deeper FIFO, even when it's defined as a 550.  You don't get the auto
> > > CTS/RTS flow control, but that has questionable value anyway.
> > > 
> > I have a 16650 based card, and it appears to work well.  It would be interesting
> > to figure out why mine works, and others don't.
> 
>     What kind of card do you have?  I assume it's not a LavaPort...
> 
SIIG CyberPro I/O.  It has a full complement of IRQ and I/O port jumpers,
and also a baud rate scaling jumper set, which allows running at *2 and *4
baud rates.


-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 16:39:43 1998
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To: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
cc: Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: why 100 byte TCP segments? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:33:15 MST."
             <Pine.BSF.3.95.980111162702.10734e-100000@alive.znep.com> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:37:51 -0800
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>Aha.    Yes, section 14.11.
>
>He suggests either knocking MINCLSIZE down to 101, increasing the
>size of a mbuf from 128 to 256 bytes, or changing sosend to avoid
>sending multiple packets when mbufs (instead of mbuf clusters) are
>being used.
>
>The last one may be a better solution, but the first is easier.
>I can't see much in the way of bad side effects offhand to changing
>MINCLSIZE... certainly not compared to how annoying this is.  It sucks
>when it triggers slow start or Nagle especially with delayed acks.

   I seem to recall trying that and finding that there are bad side effects,
but that was a few years ago, so my memory may be faulty.

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 16:42:21 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:41:20 -0500
From: Charlie Root <root@scsn.net>
To: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>
Cc: dmaddox@scsn.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net
References: <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net> <34bf6bef.3609890@mail.cetlink.net>
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On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 01:11:32AM +0000, John Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:37:26 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> Maddox) wrote:
> 
> >    Hmmm...  I originally configured it as a basic 16550, since
> >sio apparently doesn't have any support for >115.2Kbps anyway, but
> >even then it looked like the baud rate just couldn't be changed
> >from 9600.  I suppose it's possible that the LavaPort's interface
> >is non-standard(?)  Anybody have any experience with this card?
> 
> A 650 is a 650 no matter what card it's on.  All programming of the
> registers takes place on the UART, not the card.  Perhaps you are
> doing something else wrong.
> 
> I have 650's on a Byterunner card working with my ISDN at 230k.  SIO
> programs the UART with a value of "1" which is 115,200 for a 1x clock,
> but 230,400 for a 2x clock.  The clock is controlled by a jumper on
> the card and SIO doesn't care.  It only cares about writing the value
> "1" to the appropriate UART register.
> 
> There is more to the story because of the clock selection bit in the
> 650 UART, but the details should be irrelevant for your purposes.

Interesting information...  This card doesn't have a jumper for the
clockspeed, though.  The only jumpers on the board are for setting the
IRQ and COM port.  The clock is, as far as I can tell, fixed at 4x normal
16550 speed (It supports baud rates up to 430,800bps).  Maybe the 4x
clock is the problem?



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 16:47:23 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:45:53 -0500
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
Cc: dmaddox@scsn.net, jak@cetlink.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net
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On Sun, Jan 11, 1998 at 07:39:07PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote:
> Charlie Root said:
> > On Sun, Jan 11, 1998 at 07:07:35PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote:
> > > John Kelly said:
> > > > On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:06:19 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> > > > Maddox) wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > >    I recently bought a 16C650-based LavaPort ISA card to support the
> > > > >230,400 bps capability of my ISDN modem.  It works fine under W95, but
> > > > >does _not_ work fine under FBSD-current.
> > > > 
> > > > The 650 support seems to be broken, so don't flag it as a 650.  Run it
> > > > as a 550 and it should work fine.  You still get the benefit of the
> > > > deeper FIFO, even when it's defined as a 550.  You don't get the auto
> > > > CTS/RTS flow control, but that has questionable value anyway.
> > > > 
> > > I have a 16650 based card, and it appears to work well.  It would be interesting
> > > to figure out why mine works, and others don't.
> > 
> >     What kind of card do you have?  I assume it's not a LavaPort...
> > 
> SIIG CyberPro I/O.  It has a full complement of IRQ and I/O port jumpers,
> and also a baud rate scaling jumper set, which allows running at *2 and *4
> baud rates.

Figures.  I came _that close_ >< to buying the CyberPro...  This card does
not have jumpers for the clock...  seems to be fixed at 4x.  I think maybe
that's the source of my problem.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:05:13 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:27:01 -0000 (GMT)
From: Duncan Barclay <dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Revamping /etc/daily, weekly, monthly
Cc: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
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Stuff from a couple of weeks ago to jog your memories:

On 31-Dec-97 Duncan Barclay wrote:
>
>On 31-Dec-97 Nate Williams wrote:
>>[ Duncan Barclay writes:
>>> For some while I have been unhappy with the way the daily/weekly/monthly
>>> scripts work.
>>
>>...
>>> The nicest way to configure is probably a file a la newsyslog.conf
>>> eg.
>>> #
>>> # Cleaner job         When    [Boot]
>>> #
>>> build_whatis          w       n
>>> build_locate          w       n
>>> remove_junk           d       y
>>...
>>[ Good proposal deleted ]
>>
>>> So before I embark on setting this up, any thoughts/comments to
>>> improve upon this?
>I've started to throw together the first cut and already started using real
>words. Keeping it simple at the moment I am using
>build_whatis=           daily|weekly|monthly|boot
>build_whatis_boot=      yes|no
>
>Oh yeah, the working title is "bev", after our cleaner:-)

Well I have finsihed the first cut of bev and its available from
http://www.ragnet.demon.co.uk/bev.tar.gz
unpack this and then dump the files in /etc, and change the
/etc/crontab file as directed.

Local files can be set-up without hacking on bev itself.
Examples of bev.conf.local and bev.local are provided.

I haven't implemented any of the extras to cron to enable catching
up of missed runs. From earlier discussions that is really
orthogonal to what I am trying to do.

If bev seems to be the right sort of thing can someone commit it?

WARNING: I have only run this unattended once it seems fine...:-)

The configuration is in the style of rc.conf.
Snippet from bev.conf
#
# Configuration for bev, the system cleaner. This file
# is read into a shell script. 
#
# Each pair of variables determines when an action is run. The
# first variable can take any value, the action is executed
# if bev is invoked with that value as its first argument.
# The second variable (with the _boot suffix) can be used to invoke
# an action at boot time.
#
# Eg.
# 
# clean_var.preserve="daily"
# clean_var.preserve_boot="yes"
# 
# invokes an action to clean up /var/preserve when bev is run as
# /etc/bev daily. Also the clean up is run when the machine is booted.
# 
# Typical values for when an action is to be run are:
#   daily weekly monthly boot none local
# The first three are used by cron(1) invoked runs of bev. "boot" is
# used to invoke bev from /etc/rc and "none" is used if bev is invoked
# with no arguments. The _boot variables should be set to one of
#   yes no
#
clean_var_preserve="daily"
clean_var_preserve_boot="yes"
clean_var_rhwo="daily"
clean_var_rwho_boot="yes"

Duncan

---
________________________________________________________________________
Duncan Barclay          | God smiles upon the little children,
dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned.
________________________________________________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:06:59 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 02:07:04 GMT
Message-ID: <34c0795e.7050337@mail.cetlink.net>
References: <199801120007.TAA00316@dyson.iquest.net>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:07:35 -0500 (EST), "John S. Dyson"
<toor@dyson.iquest.net> wrote:

>> The 650 support seems to be broken, so don't flag it as a 650.  Run it
>> as a 550 and it should work fine.  You still get the benefit of the
>> deeper FIFO, even when it's defined as a 550.  You don't get the auto
>> CTS/RTS flow control, but that has questionable value anyway.
>> 
>I have a 16650 based card, and it appears to work well.  It would be interesting
>to figure out why mine works, and others don't.
>

Do you have it flagged as a 650 in your kernel, or as a 550?

I emailed you about the SIO 650 support a couple of months ago but I
guess you were busy with other stuff.  There seem to be some changes
in SIO for 650 support, attributed to you.  If that is true, can you
describe the changes?

When I tried to use the 650 support in -current a couple of months ago
I would always get interrupt-level buffer overflows.  But as long as
it was defined as a 550 it worked (and still works) fine.

John




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:13:12 1998
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From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
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Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
In-Reply-To: <34c0795e.7050337@mail.cetlink.net> from John Kelly at "Jan 12, 98 02:07:04 am"
To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:12:12 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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John Kelly said:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:07:35 -0500 (EST), "John S. Dyson"
> <toor@dyson.iquest.net> wrote:
> 
> >> The 650 support seems to be broken, so don't flag it as a 650.  Run it
> >> as a 550 and it should work fine.  You still get the benefit of the
> >> deeper FIFO, even when it's defined as a 550.  You don't get the auto
> >> CTS/RTS flow control, but that has questionable value anyway.
> >> 
> >I have a 16650 based card, and it appears to work well.  It would be interesting
> >to figure out why mine works, and others don't.
> >
> 
> Do you have it flagged as a 650 in your kernel, or as a 550?
> 
As a 650.

>
> I emailed you about the SIO 650 support a couple of months ago but I
> guess you were busy with other stuff.  There seem to be some changes
> in SIO for 650 support, attributed to you.  If that is true, can you
> describe the changes?
>
The 650 enabled code uses the entire 32 byte buffer, and enables HW flow
control when it is enabled by the driver.

-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:22:54 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 02:23:14 GMT
Message-ID: <34c17b19.7493033@mail.cetlink.net>
References: <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net> <34bf6bef.3609890@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111194120.34679@scsn.net>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:41:20 -0500, Charlie Root <root@scsn.net>
wrote:

>> There is more to the story because of the clock selection bit in the
>> 650 UART, but the details should be irrelevant for your purposes.
>
>Interesting information...  This card doesn't have a jumper for the
>clockspeed, though.  The only jumpers on the board are for setting the
>IRQ and COM port.  The clock is, as far as I can tell, fixed at 4x normal

In that case a baud rate of 57,600 will cause SIO to program the UART
with a "2" which will actually select 230,400.

You may need to use Minicom or some other terminal program to set up
your ISDN adapter at 230,400 first, though.  My 3com cannot be
autobauded to 230,400.  It has to be initialized at 115,200 or below
and then set to 230,400 with an AT command.  Then after it's set, you
can't talk to it again until you change your UART baud to 230,400.

Since you seem to be running with a default 4x clock, the next lower
standard speed in the 4x table is 38,400 which is programmed with a
value of "12" in the UART register.  If you set up Minicom at what
appears to be 9600, you will really be talking to the ISDN device at
38,400.  Then you should be able to use the AT command which sets the
ISDN adapter to 230,400 and fire up SIO with a speed of 57,600 which
will really be 230,400.

It all makes sense when you see the baud rate table for 4x vs. 1x.

John




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:26:39 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 02:26:41 GMT
Message-ID: <34c27eff.8491405@mail.cetlink.net>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:39:07 -0500 (EST), "John S. Dyson"
<toor@dyson.iquest.net> wrote:

>SIIG CyberPro I/O.  It has a full complement of IRQ and I/O port jumpers,
>and also a baud rate scaling jumper set, which allows running at *2 and *4
>baud rates.

That's exactly what I tested on when I got interrupt-level buffer
overlfows.

John




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:32:17 1998
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From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net
References: <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net> <34bf6bef.3609890@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111194120.34679@scsn.net>
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On Sun, Jan 11, 1998 at 07:41:20PM -0500, Charlie Root wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 01:11:32AM +0000, John Kelly wrote:
> > On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:37:26 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> > Maddox) wrote:
> > 
> > >    Hmmm...  I originally configured it as a basic 16550, since
> > >sio apparently doesn't have any support for >115.2Kbps anyway, but
> > >even then it looked like the baud rate just couldn't be changed
> > >from 9600.  I suppose it's possible that the LavaPort's interface
> > >is non-standard(?)  Anybody have any experience with this card?
> > 
> > A 650 is a 650 no matter what card it's on.  All programming of the
> > registers takes place on the UART, not the card.  Perhaps you are
> > doing something else wrong.
> > 
> > I have 650's on a Byterunner card working with my ISDN at 230k.  SIO
> > programs the UART with a value of "1" which is 115,200 for a 1x clock,
> > but 230,400 for a 2x clock.  The clock is controlled by a jumper on
> > the card and SIO doesn't care.  It only cares about writing the value
> > "1" to the appropriate UART register.
> > 
> > There is more to the story because of the clock selection bit in the
> > 650 UART, but the details should be irrelevant for your purposes.
> 
> Interesting information...  This card doesn't have a jumper for the
> clockspeed, though.  The only jumpers on the board are for setting the
> IRQ and COM port.  The clock is, as far as I can tell, fixed at 4x normal
> 16550 speed (It supports baud rates up to 430,800bps).  Maybe the 4x
> clock is the problem?

Well, it turned out that the 4x clock _was_ the problem...  I just had
to set my speed to 57600 to talk to the modem at 230400.  Duh.  Thanks
for all the help, guys...


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:32:29 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:31:18 -0500
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net
References: <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net> <34bf6bef.3609890@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111194120.34679@scsn.net> <34c17b19.7493033@mail.cetlink.net>
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On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 02:23:14AM +0000, John Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:41:20 -0500, Charlie Root <root@scsn.net>
> wrote:
> 
> >> There is more to the story because of the clock selection bit in the
> >> 650 UART, but the details should be irrelevant for your purposes.
> >
> >Interesting information...  This card doesn't have a jumper for the
> >clockspeed, though.  The only jumpers on the board are for setting the
> >IRQ and COM port.  The clock is, as far as I can tell, fixed at 4x normal
> 
> In that case a baud rate of 57,600 will cause SIO to program the UART
> with a "2" which will actually select 230,400.
> 
> You may need to use Minicom or some other terminal program to set up
> your ISDN adapter at 230,400 first, though.  My 3com cannot be
> autobauded to 230,400.  It has to be initialized at 115,200 or below
> and then set to 230,400 with an AT command.  Then after it's set, you
> can't talk to it again until you change your UART baud to 230,400.
> 
> Since you seem to be running with a default 4x clock, the next lower
> standard speed in the 4x table is 38,400 which is programmed with a
> value of "12" in the UART register.  If you set up Minicom at what
> appears to be 9600, you will really be talking to the ISDN device at
> 38,400.  Then you should be able to use the AT command which sets the
> ISDN adapter to 230,400 and fire up SIO with a speed of 57,600 which
> will really be 230,400.
> 
> It all makes sense when you see the baud rate table for 4x vs. 1x.

    Yeah, that's exactly it.  I finally figured this out just moments
before I got this message.  My ISDN modem is a Motorola BitSURFR Pro EZ,
and it works pretty much exactly like your description of the 3COM...
Have you figured out a way to use both B channels under BSD?


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:37:35 1998
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From: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig@Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE>
Message-Id: <199801120026.BAA00286@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de>
Subject: Re: Weird syscons errors
In-Reply-To: <199801111815.SAA28880@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> from Brian Somers at "Jan 11, 98 06:15:03 pm"
To: brian@awfulhak.org (Brian Somers)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:26:39 +0100 (MET)
Cc: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > Hi!
> > 
> > After having built the world and kernel from something like midnight
> > yesterday (CET) I have this weird problem that I didn't have with a kernel
> > from late december. Anyone else seen this? I have noticed syscons changes
> > lately, and I'm wondering if they screwed anything up.
> > 
> > What happens is that after the probe messages have come up, I get no more
> > output. The computer continues to boot to full multiuser mode, and I can
> > log in, but I have to do it "blindly". There seems to be no way to the
> > console into displaying anything except those frozen boot messages.
> > If I log in and and vidconrol "VGA_80x50", for example, the mode _does_
> > change, but the text doesn't. And I can switch vtys, but without any real
> > significant change. Only way I could tell that switching vtys worked was
> > because I had one vty in VGA_80x50 mode. If I start X11, it will switch
> > to graphic mode just fine, and run in X11. Then when I exit X11, I get
> > the same crap again.
> > 
> > So... What's wrong? Anyone else seen this?
> 
> Yep.  Go to /sys/net/i386/isa/syscons.c 1.242 and the problem will go 
> away.

Did that, and the problem did not go away.
So I speculate syscons.c dead keys are not the reason for
syscons dead screens.

Wolfgang
> 
> >   /Mikael
> 
> -- 
> Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
>       <http://www.Awfulhak.org>
> Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....
> 
> 
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:38:32 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 02:37:53 GMT
Message-ID: <34c38080.8877417@mail.cetlink.net>
References: <199801120112.UAA00657@dyson.iquest.net>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:12:12 -0500 (EST), "John S. Dyson"
<toor@dyson.iquest.net> wrote:

>The 650 enabled code uses the entire 32 byte buffer

Presumably you mean for transmit data only?

The bit setting for a receive trigger level of 14 in a 550 gives a
receive trigger level of 28 in a 650.  Either way, SIO should merely
drain receive data until the FIFO is empty, right?


John





From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:47:17 1998
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Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
In-Reply-To: <34c38080.8877417@mail.cetlink.net> from John Kelly at "Jan 12, 98 02:37:53 am"
To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:46:49 -0500 (EST)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "John S. Dyson" <dyson@FreeBSD.ORG>
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John Kelly said:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:12:12 -0500 (EST), "John S. Dyson"
> <toor@dyson.iquest.net> wrote:
> 
> >The 650 enabled code uses the entire 32 byte buffer
> 
> Presumably you mean for transmit data only?
> 
> The bit setting for a receive trigger level of 14 in a 550 gives a
> receive trigger level of 28 in a 650.  Either way, SIO should merely
> drain receive data until the FIFO is empty, right?
> 
It is being used correctly.  Of course, you still might use the entire
buffer, whatever the trigger level is set to.  It depends on interrupt
latencies, etc.

-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:52:06 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:51:20 -0500
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>
Cc: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
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On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 02:07:04AM +0000, John Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:07:35 -0500 (EST), "John S. Dyson"
> <toor@dyson.iquest.net> wrote:
> 
> >> The 650 support seems to be broken, so don't flag it as a 650.  Run it
> >> as a 550 and it should work fine.  You still get the benefit of the
> >> deeper FIFO, even when it's defined as a 550.  You don't get the auto
> >> CTS/RTS flow control, but that has questionable value anyway.
> >> 
> >I have a 16650 based card, and it appears to work well.  It would be interesting
> >to figure out why mine works, and others don't.
> >
> 
> Do you have it flagged as a 650 in your kernel, or as a 550?
> 
> I emailed you about the SIO 650 support a couple of months ago but I
> guess you were busy with other stuff.  There seem to be some changes
> in SIO for 650 support, attributed to you.  If that is true, can you
> describe the changes?
> 
> When I tried to use the 650 support in -current a couple of months ago
> I would always get interrupt-level buffer overflows.  But as long as
> it was defined as a 550 it worked (and still works) fine.

Interesting that you mention that...  Now that I have this thing actually
working (finally), I see this just moments ago:

Jan 11 20:25:40 rhiannon /kernel: sio2: 409 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 409)
Jan 11 20:25:40 rhiannon /kernel: sio2: 409 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 409)

It's still configured with flags=0x20000 for the moment.  Guess I'll drop
the flag and see what happens...


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 17:53:18 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 02:53:14 GMT
Message-ID: <34c48361.9613962@mail.cetlink.net>
References: <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net> <34bf6bef.3609890@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111194120.34679@scsn.net> <34c17b19.7493033@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111203118.15860@scsn.net>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:31:18 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
Maddox) wrote:

>> It all makes sense when you see the baud rate table for 4x vs. 1x.
>
>    Yeah, that's exactly it.  I finally figured this out just moments
>before I got this message.  My ISDN modem is a Motorola BitSURFR Pro EZ,
>and it works pretty much exactly like your description of the 3COM...
>Have you figured out a way to use both B channels under BSD?

That's easy because it's transparent to FreeBSD.

An AT command of S80=1 to the 3Com tells it to make a bonded PPP
Multilink call.  The 3Com and the ISP's Portmaster do the rest.  Once
both channels are up, the 3Com logically bonds them and sends a single
PPP data stream to FreeBSD.

I expect the Bitsurfer has an AT command which does the same.

John




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Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
In-Reply-To: <19980111205120.42545@scsn.net> from "Donald J. Maddox" at "Jan 11, 98 08:51:20 pm"
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:57:48 -0500 (EST)
Cc: jak@cetlink.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "John S. Dyson" <dyson@FreeBSD.ORG>
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Donald J. Maddox said:
> 
> Interesting that you mention that...  Now that I have this thing actually
> working (finally), I see this just moments ago:
> 
> Jan 11 20:25:40 rhiannon /kernel: sio2: 409 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 409)
> Jan 11 20:25:40 rhiannon /kernel: sio2: 409 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 409)
> 
> It's still configured with flags=0x20000 for the moment.  Guess I'll drop
> the flag and see what happens...
> 
Note that tty-level overflows are not from the chip, or that the system
isn't getting the characters in time.  It is likely a problem with the amount
of buffer space in the kernel.

-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:08:05 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 03:08:31 GMT
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:57:48 -0500 (EST), "John S. Dyson"
<dyson@FreeBSD.ORG> wrote:

>Note that tty-level overflows are not from the chip, or that the system
>isn't getting the characters in time.  It is likely a problem with the amount
>of buffer space in the kernel.

There appears to be more to the story because I got interrupt-level
buffer overlflows even after changing RS_IBUFSIZE from 256 to 512.

I did not get them as quickly or as often, but I still got them.

John



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:14:36 1998
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From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net
References: <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net> <34bf6bef.3609890@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111194120.34679@scsn.net> <34c17b19.7493033@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111203118.15860@scsn.net> <34c48361.9613962@mail.cetlink.net>
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On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 02:53:14AM +0000, John Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:31:18 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> Maddox) wrote:
> 
> >> It all makes sense when you see the baud rate table for 4x vs. 1x.
> >
> >    Yeah, that's exactly it.  I finally figured this out just moments
> >before I got this message.  My ISDN modem is a Motorola BitSURFR Pro EZ,
> >and it works pretty much exactly like your description of the 3COM...
> >Have you figured out a way to use both B channels under BSD?
> 
> That's easy because it's transparent to FreeBSD.
> 
> An AT command of S80=1 to the 3Com tells it to make a bonded PPP
> Multilink call.  The 3Com and the ISP's Portmaster do the rest.  Once
> both channels are up, the 3Com logically bonds them and sends a single
> PPP data stream to FreeBSD.
> 
> I expect the Bitsurfer has an AT command which does the same.

Yeah, it would seem that way :-)  Actually, the BitSURFR does have such
an AT command...  But...

The AT command to use both B channels is 'AT@B0=2' on the BitSURFR; however,
it has 3 different rate adaption protocols: V.120, AIMux, and PPP.  If I
use V.120, everything works great, but, unfortunately, V.120 does not support
channel bonding.  If I use PPP (which _does_ support channel bonding, and
which works great under W95 dial-up networking), the modem connects fine,
but instead of a login prompt, I just get garbage characters from the
modem.  I know the problem is something simple that I am just not quite
grasping, since W95 dial-up networking seems to be able to log me into
my ISP just fine with PPP rate adaption protocol.  In short, I cannot get
a working chat script to log me into my  ISP if I select PPP protocol on
the modem.  Does any of this make any sense to you? (I hope so)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:15:04 1998
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From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: why 100 byte TCP segments? 
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, David Greenman wrote:

> >Yup, this seems to happen only with data between one and two mbuffs
> >in size, ie.  101-207 bytes or so.  Smaller and it fits in one
> >packet, between 208 and the MTU it is properly sent in one packet.
> 
>    It's a known problem with the socket code that has existed in BSD forever.
> I think Garrett put a work-around in by fudging some thresholds, but I may be
> mistaken.

There is:

wollman     96/01/05 13:41:56

  Modified:    sys/kern  uipc_socket2.c
  Log:
  Eliminate the dramatic TCP performance decrease observed for writes in
  the range [210:260] by sweeping the problem under the rug.  This change
  has the following effects:

  1) A new MIB variable in the kern branch is defined to allow modification
  of the socket buffer layer's ``wastage factor'' (which determines how
  much unused-but-allocated space in mbufs and mbuf clusters is allowed
  in a socket buffer).

  2) The default value of the wastage factor is changed from 2 to 8.
  The original value was chosen when MINCLSIZE was 7*MLEN (!), and is not
  appropriate for an environment where MINCLSIZE is much less.

  The real solution to this problem is to scrap both mbufs and sockbufs
  and completely redesign the buffering mechanism used at both levels.

  Revision  Changes    Path
  1.8       +6 -2      src/sys/kern/uipc_socket2.c


but that doesn't appear to do anything related to the problem with
this particular range of sizes.

Good thing most HTTP requests are too bloated to matter.  Well, and 
many clients probably disable Nagle which doesn't help slow start
but does help persistent connections.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:16:13 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:15:19 -0500
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: jak@cetlink.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
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On Sun, Jan 11, 1998 at 08:57:48PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote:
> Donald J. Maddox said:
> > 
> > Interesting that you mention that...  Now that I have this thing actually
> > working (finally), I see this just moments ago:
> > 
> > Jan 11 20:25:40 rhiannon /kernel: sio2: 409 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 409)
> > Jan 11 20:25:40 rhiannon /kernel: sio2: 409 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 409)
> > 
> > It's still configured with flags=0x20000 for the moment.  Guess I'll drop
> > the flag and see what happens...
> > 
> Note that tty-level overflows are not from the chip, or that the system
> isn't getting the characters in time.  It is likely a problem with the amount
> of buffer space in the kernel.

Ok, how does one increase the buffer space?


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:17:50 1998
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From: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
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Subject: routing puzzle
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I have a setup where I have two separate networks - my main network is
connected to the Internet via a 56K frame relay connection, the
secondary network is connected to the Internet via a cable modem.  For
policy reasons, I only want HTTP & FTP to use the cable modem.  I have
one system connected to both via separate ethernet cards.

It sounds fairly easy upfront, but since both of the nets use gateways
to get out of the net and both of those gateways advertise a default
route.  I don't have access to the gateways.  So it kind of looks like
I need a default route for each interface...

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to accomplish this?

-- 
Dave Cornejo @ Dogwood Media, Fremont, California

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:25:15 1998
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To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: How do I DELAY() at boot time ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:44:31 BST."
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> Suppose during the probe/attach routine for a device I have to wait for
> some time, what is the correct approach ? I am currently using DELAY()
> (this is in the audio driver, ad1848.c for what matters) and this seems
> not to have the desired effect. Since the same code is also used during
> regular operation, DELAY works fine there... should I do something like
> 
> 	if (booting)
> 		do_something_to_spend_time(x);
> 	else
> 		DELAY(x)
> 
> instead ?

No, DELAY() should work from very early on.  What is "not the desired 
effect", and what hardware, etc?

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:26:06 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 04:26:42 +0200
From: Jurij <jjurgel@usa.net>
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Hi!

Could you tell me please, is it possible to install FreeBSD from FAT32
partition?

Jurij


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:26:48 1998
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To: mika ruohotie <bsdhack@shadows.aeon.net>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:02:18 +0200."
             <199801111402.QAA02310@shadows.aeon.net> 
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> > Mike Smith:
> > I'm also interested in seeing if a few things I found in the 2.2 version
> > were/will be addressed.  E.g.:
> > 
> >    - Splash should auto-dismiss itself when booting gets to the syscons 
> >      login prompt (i.e. not running xdm)
> 
> why not make it a user selectable?

That'd be pretty straightforward; I'd suggest an rc.conf option to 
change the "running" splash, either "NO" (do nothing), "CLEAR" (remove 
the splash) or the path of a new splash to put up once the system was 
up.

> so that a user would be able to choose an option where the splash is
> left after the boot complites, maybe even putting on another image
> all together, and until some special key combination (user definable)
> is pressed, leave it at that. the key combination would drop it to the
> normal syscons login. wouldnt hurt having that key comb being predefined.

It is already; any VT switch will clear the splash, and there's a 
keymap token for toggling it back.  I was considering the "window" key, 
actually, although that leaves out a lot of people with older 
keyboards...

> that would be _very_ usefull for me for those customer firewall setups,
> all the customer needs to know is if the system is up and running or
> not, they dont need to be able to log in. to many people nowadays a
> nice image on screen looks more "convincing" than a black login screen,
> i'd assume many people considering "non gui" looking somewhat "old".

Sure.  Colour cycling will happen post-boot as well, as there are 
timers available at that point.

> yes, i'd do that myself if i'd know how, maybe i know, it just sounds
> too complicated for me.

Not really.  Syscons is a bit of a monster, but not *that* bad.  I'm 
certainly more than open to suggestions, diffs, whatever.

> pssss. yes, i can test things in at least one of my current machines

Please do, if you get a chance.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:28:17 1998
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Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au> writes:
> > > - A better image format.  The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to
> > >   work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is
> > >   slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core.
> > How about GIF?  
> Sure.  Do you have a compact decoder?  I'm more than aware of the 
> various formats around; as I said the *only* reason I used DIB was that 
> parsing it is so simple that even the Windows weenies can do it.

As a compromise, how about PCX version 5? You can write a PCX decoder
in ten lines of C, and although it does not compress nearly as well as
GIF, it is quite acceptable for 320x200x256. It also has the advantage
of not being burdened with a patent.

/*
 * Written off the top of my head - and untested :)
 *
 * src is a pointer to the PCX encoded image, dst is a pointer to some buffer
 * large enough to accomodate the decompressed image (e.g. video RAM)
 *
 * Note that it will not stop before decoding 64000 pixels, and assumes the
 * encoded image is "sane"
 */

void pcx_decode(unsigned char *src, unsigned char *dest)
{
    int pixels = 0, count;

    for (pixels = 0; pixels < 64000; src++)
        if ((src & 0xC0) == 0xC0)
            for (count = *(src++) & 0x3F; count; count--, dst++) *dst = *src;
        else *(dst++) = *src;
}

Of course, you still need to read the header and the palette, but
that's "easy as a piece of pie" ;) (remember to shift each byte in the
palette two bits to the right)

-- 
 * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
  RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"
 # unzip ; strip ; touch ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:47:33 1998
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To: dmaddox@scsn.net
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Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:06:19 CDT."
             <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> 
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>     I recently bought a 16C650-based LavaPort ISA card to support the
> 230,400 bps capability of my ISDN modem.  It works fine under W95, but
> does _not_ work fine under FBSD-current.
> 
>     I am able to talk to the modem only if I set the port speed to
> 9600 bps.  Any other speed fails to talk at all.  I assume that 9600bps
> is the default speed of the chip, and the sio driver is failing to set
> the speed correctly.

Set the port speed on *what*?  Does the card use the standard Windows 
COM driver, or does it have its own?

>     Looking at sio.c, it would appear that the driver is intended to
> work with 16650s, since there is a flag specifically intended for use
> with the 16650's larger FIFO (flags 0x20000).

Correct.

>     Am I missing a necessary step to make this thing work, or is there
> something non-standard about this card?  Anybody else have any experience
> with the LavaPort ISA (aka LavaLink-650)?

Which 16650 does the card use?  (ie. what are the markings on the 16650 
part?)

> sio2 at 0x3e8-0x3ef irq 12 flags 0x20000 on isa
> sio2: type ST16650A

It looks pretty happy with that.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:48:39 1998
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From: Andrew Gordon <arg@arg1.demon.co.uk>
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To: "Donald J. Maddox" <dmaddox@scsn.net>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ISDN TAs (was: 16650 Support(?))
In-Reply-To: <19980111211328.42326@scsn.net>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Donald J. Maddox wrote:
> 
> The AT command to use both B channels is 'AT@B0=2' on the BitSURFR; however,
> it has 3 different rate adaption protocols: V.120, AIMux, and PPP.  If I
> use V.120, everything works great, but, unfortunately, V.120 does not support
> channel bonding.  If I use PPP (which _does_ support channel bonding, and
> which works great under W95 dial-up networking), the modem connects fine,
> but instead of a login prompt, I just get garbage characters from the
> modem.  I know the problem is something simple that I am just not quite

You're not supposed to get a login prompt!  If using PPP mode, you have 
to do authentication inside the PPP protocol (typically using PAP).
Your "garbage characters" are almost certainly valid PPP protocol.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:55:55 1998
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To: joelh@gnu.org
cc: bsdhack@shadows.aeon.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:47:32 MDT."
             <199801112147.PAA02503@detlev.UUCP> 
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> It would seem to me that your best bet would be to consider making a
> custom version of 'getty' with libvgl, since getty is going to
> determine how idle time between logins should be handled.  That's
> pretty well out of syscons's jurisdiction.
> 
> Actually, making just such a thing just got put on my TODO list.

It's a very short step from there to a semi-graphical login (eg. login 
dialog rather than login/password prompt.)  I could see people liking 
that.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:56:23 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: PAP login
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 03:53:51 GMT
Message-ID: <34c78c65.11922734@mail.cetlink.net>
References: <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net> <34bf6bef.3609890@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111194120.34679@scsn.net> <34c17b19.7493033@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111203118.15860@scsn.net> <34c48361.9613962@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111211328.42326@scsn.net>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:13:28 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
Maddox) wrote:

>If I use PPP (which _does_ support channel bonding, and
>which works great under W95 dial-up networking), the modem connects fine,
>but instead of a login prompt, I just get garbage characters from the
>modem.  I know the problem is something simple that I am just not quite
>grasping

Yep! :)

Those garbage characters you see are the PPP handshake from the ISP.
You simply need to do a PAP authentication directly without any login
script.

In my /etc/ppp directory is a file called pap-secrets containing three
items of information:

  name         remotename       password
  ----         ----------       --------

  John         BigTimeISP       toomanybozos


My call to pppd looks like:

   pppd /dev/cuaa3 57600 defaultroute crtscts -bsdcomp \
          asyncmap 00000000 connect /root/pppk/cetchat \
          name John remotename BigTimeISP

The last line tells pppd to use the password "toomanybozos" from the
pap-secrets file.  The "name" must match your user name at your ISP,
likewise for the "password," but the "remotename" can be anything you
choose.

The "connect /root/pppk/cetchat" is my chat script which contains some
AT commands to initialize the ISDN device, dial the number, and wait
for a CONNECT string, but nothing for logging in to a terminal prompt.
As soon as the chat script gets the CONNECT string, it passes control
back to pppd which starts the PAP authentication.

John



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:58:53 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:58:08 -0500
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>
Cc: dmaddox@scsn.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: PAP login
Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net
References: <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net> <34bf6bef.3609890@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111194120.34679@scsn.net> <34c17b19.7493033@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111203118.15860@scsn.net> <34c48361.9613962@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111211328.42326@scsn.net> <34c78c65.11922734@mail.cetlink.net>
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On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 03:53:51AM +0000, John Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:13:28 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> Maddox) wrote:
> 
> >If I use PPP (which _does_ support channel bonding, and
> >which works great under W95 dial-up networking), the modem connects fine,
> >but instead of a login prompt, I just get garbage characters from the
> >modem.  I know the problem is something simple that I am just not quite
> >grasping
> 
> Yep! :)
> 
> Those garbage characters you see are the PPP handshake from the ISP.
> You simply need to do a PAP authentication directly without any login
> script.
> 
> In my /etc/ppp directory is a file called pap-secrets containing three
> items of information:
> 
>   name         remotename       password
>   ----         ----------       --------
> 
>   John         BigTimeISP       toomanybozos
> 
> 
> My call to pppd looks like:
> 
>    pppd /dev/cuaa3 57600 defaultroute crtscts -bsdcomp \
>           asyncmap 00000000 connect /root/pppk/cetchat \
>           name John remotename BigTimeISP
> 
> The last line tells pppd to use the password "toomanybozos" from the
> pap-secrets file.  The "name" must match your user name at your ISP,
> likewise for the "password," but the "remotename" can be anything you
> choose.
> 
> The "connect /root/pppk/cetchat" is my chat script which contains some
> AT commands to initialize the ISDN device, dial the number, and wait
> for a CONNECT string, but nothing for logging in to a terminal prompt.
> As soon as the chat script gets the CONNECT string, it passes control
> back to pppd which starts the PAP authentication.

Thanks, John...  You are right on the money.  I never used PAP before,
so I didn't have a clue about this stuff.  All is working perfectly now.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 18:59:02 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:55:42 -0500
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: Andrew Gordon <arg@arg1.demon.co.uk>
Cc: "Donald J. Maddox" <dmaddox@scsn.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ISDN TAs (was: 16650 Support(?))
Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net
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On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 02:47:42AM +0000, Andrew Gordon wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Donald J. Maddox wrote:
> > 
> > The AT command to use both B channels is 'AT@B0=2' on the BitSURFR; however,
> > it has 3 different rate adaption protocols: V.120, AIMux, and PPP.  If I
> > use V.120, everything works great, but, unfortunately, V.120 does not support
> > channel bonding.  If I use PPP (which _does_ support channel bonding, and
> > which works great under W95 dial-up networking), the modem connects fine,
> > but instead of a login prompt, I just get garbage characters from the
> > modem.  I know the problem is something simple that I am just not quite
> 
> You're not supposed to get a login prompt!  If using PPP mode, you have 
> to do authentication inside the PPP protocol (typically using PAP).
> Your "garbage characters" are almost certainly valid PPP protocol.

Obviously, you're right :-/  Thank you very much...  I set up for PAP,
and now all is well :-)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 19:01:04 1998
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To: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1aky_P=E9rez_Gonz=E1lez?= <inaky@peloncho.fis.ucm.es>,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Development of a UNIX-wide USB standard API 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:19:14 -0800."
             <Pine.BSF.3.95.980111101658.579B-100000@current1.whistle.com> 
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> BTW I've redirected this to 'hackers@freebsd.org
> as that's where development occurs (and in 'current')

Thanks Julian; we've been looking for something like this for a while 
now.  8)

> On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, [ISO-8859-1] Iñaky Pérez González wrote:
> 
> >         Hi

G'day!

> >         I'm the developer of the Linux USB Driver Stack. I wanted to
> > let you know there's some interest at the USB Implementors Forum in
> > the creation of a UNIX-wide USB API standard, and we'd like all
> > flavours of Unix to attend.

At the moment, I don't believe there's anyone in the FreeBSD camp 
active on USB.  Having said that, I'm sure that there are more than a 
few people that would be *very* interested in seeing USB happen in a 
standardised fashion.  Whether any of us would be able to attend USB 
forum meetings is perhaps a different matter.  8(

> >         Initially I was developing a Linux-only driver, however I
> > started to try to make it portable to other free OSes. Anyhow, one day
> > the suggestion of a UNIX USB compatible API raised and we are trying
> > to get something done. Initially we are just calling people to join
> > and give ideas (actually interested parties have something done). 

Naturally.  Is there a mailing list or other forum where one might 
listen and perhaps contribute to the process?

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 19:33:54 1998
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Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
In-Reply-To: <19980111211519.11470@scsn.net> from "Donald J. Maddox" at "Jan 11, 98 09:15:19 pm"
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Donald J. Maddox said:
> 
> Ok, how does one increase the buffer space?
> 
Try the modifications noted in the included info.  I
no longer get any kind of sio messages.


-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.



Index: sio.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /local/home/ncvs/src/sys/i386/isa/sio.c,v
retrieving revision 1.194
diff -r1.194 sio.c
117a118
> /*
119a121,123
> */
> #define RB_I_HIGH_WATER (TTYHOG / 2)
> #define RS_IBUFSIZE (TTYHOG / 4)


Add this to your system conf:

options		"MSIZE=256"
options		"TTYHOG=4096"

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 19:37:33 1998
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From: Garance A Drosehn <gad@mlor.its.rpi.edu>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 98 23:18:55 -0500
To: ac199@hwcn.org
Subject: lpr in FreeBSD 3.x
Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Tim Vanderhoek <ac199@hwcn.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 07:04:07PM -0800, papowell@astart.com wrote:
> > I am the developer of the LPRng print spooler software - a replacement
> > for the BSD LPR spooler.  I would like to contact the BSD distribution
> > group and recommend that they replace their BSD LPR distribution with
> > LPRng,  or offer it as an alternative.

FWIW, I think it's good for the ports collection to include the latest
version of LPRng, but I wouldn't use it to replace the version of lpr
coming up in FreeBSD 3.0.  Maybe after waiting some more to see it in
action, but not yet.

> It's also briefly discussed in the handbook section on setting up
> one's printer.  WRT to our current lpr, I think that wollman has
> been doing some work of some sort on it.

Speaking of which...

I use a much earlier version of FreeBSD's lpr on our systems here
at RPI, and am now trying to sync up with FreeBSD's (I'm running
it on Solaris, AIX4, and IRIX...).  All the changes in the 3.x
snapshot make that a bit more challenging, but the changes do all
interest me.  I particularly like the fact that many of the changes
are intent on making lpr/lpd/etc even more robust in a number of
situations.

I don't follow freebsd enough to know who Wollman is, but I had
some questions and ideas for similar changes, and wanted to know
who to bounce those off of.  We have a few hundred unix hosts with
about 200 print queues using this lpr/lpd (and some PC's which send
jobs to those unix hosts), so I stumble across some things that
maybe others don't see...

Sample issues:

recvjob changes the name of a cf-file to match the hostname which
sent the file (this is probably for the benefit of rmjob).  However,
'lpc clean' assumes that the cf-file matches the names of all
df-files it sends.  This assumption can cause very unpleasent
results if you have jobs coming from multi-homed hosts.  This
renaming of the cf-file also causes trouble in some other situations,
but then there's a question of how to fix it without breaking other
things.

There's apparently some implementations of lpr for the PC which
don't include an 'H' field in the cf-file.  This means filters are
passed a null hostname.  I'd encourage the user with this lpr to
use a different version, except that of course I can't figure out
who the user is, or what hostname they are coming from.  Seems to
me that it'd be useful for recvjob to check the cf file for an H
line, and add one if it's not already there.  There are other things
in the cf-file which should probably be checked when receiving the
file, too.

So, anyway, where should I forward these and other questions to?

---
Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer        (MIME & NeXTmail capable)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 20:02:55 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: "Donald J. Maddox" <dmaddox@scsn.net>
cc: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Donald J. Maddox wrote:

> > I expect the Bitsurfer has an AT command which does the same.
> 
> Yeah, it would seem that way :-)  Actually, the BitSURFR does have such
> an AT command...  But...
> 
> The AT command to use both B channels is 'AT@B0=2' on the BitSURFR; however,
> it has 3 different rate adaption protocols: V.120, AIMux, and PPP.  If I
> use V.120, everything works great, but, unfortunately, V.120 does not support
> channel bonding.  If I use PPP (which _does_ support channel bonding, and

  V120 is very slow anyhow.  V120 provides an async emulation for sync
lines, which kills your performance.

> which works great under W95 dial-up networking), the modem connects fine,
> but instead of a login prompt, I just get garbage characters from the

  Remember you are going from async PPP in FreeBSD to sync MP on the ISP
side.  Sync serial cant display login prompts (or any prompts for that
matter).  You must use PAP for username and password.  Only provide a
phone number, and let PAP take over.

> modem.  I know the problem is something simple that I am just not quite
> grasping, since W95 dial-up networking seems to be able to log me into

  Win95 always uses PAP.

  The PPP examples should encorage the use of PAP.  It is easier to use,
and basically every ISP supports it.  Death to login scripts.

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 20:13:32 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: PAP login
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 05:13:58 GMT
Message-ID: <34cba603.18482592@mail.cetlink.net>
References: <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net> <34bf6bef.3609890@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111194120.34679@scsn.net> <34c17b19.7493033@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111203118.15860@scsn.net> <34c48361.9613962@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111211328.42326@scsn.net> <34c78c65.11922734@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111215808.59067@scsn.net>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:58:08 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
Maddox) wrote:

>Thanks, John...  You are right on the money.  I never used PAP before,
>so I didn't have a clue about this stuff.  All is working perfectly now.

What a bunch of grouchy responses from others who offered no helpful
examples.  Folks, if you're just irritated by the questions why bother
to reply at all?

John




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 20:15:15 1998
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From: Jacques Vidrine <n@nectar.com>
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
cc: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?) 
In-reply-to: <19980111211328.42326@scsn.net> 
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Just a guess, try using PAP for authentication instead of 
a "chat script" or manually logging in ... 

... the BitSURFR is not only translating from PPP to MPP, but 
also from Async framing to Sync framing ...

V.120 also adapts Async to Sync.

Jacques Vidrine <n@nectar.com>

On 11 January 1998 at 21:13, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 02:53:14AM +0000, John Kelly wrote:
> > On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:31:18 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> > Maddox) wrote:
> > 
> > >> It all makes sense when you see the baud rate table for 4x vs. 1x.
> > >
> > >    Yeah, that's exactly it.  I finally figured this out just moments
> > >before I got this message.  My ISDN modem is a Motorola BitSURFR Pro EZ,
> > >and it works pretty much exactly like your description of the 3COM...
> > >Have you figured out a way to use both B channels under BSD?
> > 
> > That's easy because it's transparent to FreeBSD.
> > 
> > An AT command of S80=1 to the 3Com tells it to make a bonded PPP
> > Multilink call.  The 3Com and the ISP's Portmaster do the rest.  Once
> > both channels are up, the 3Com logically bonds them and sends a single
> > PPP data stream to FreeBSD.
> > 
> > I expect the Bitsurfer has an AT command which does the same.
> 
> Yeah, it would seem that way :-)  Actually, the BitSURFR does have such
> an AT command...  But...
> 
> The AT command to use both B channels is 'AT@B0=2' on the BitSURFR; however,
> it has 3 different rate adaption protocols: V.120, AIMux, and PPP.  If I
> use V.120, everything works great, but, unfortunately, V.120 does not support
> channel bonding.  If I use PPP (which _does_ support channel bonding, and
> which works great under W95 dial-up networking), the modem connects fine,
> but instead of a login prompt, I just get garbage characters from the
> modem.  I know the problem is something simple that I am just not quite
> grasping, since W95 dial-up networking seems to be able to log me into
> my ISP just fine with PPP rate adaption protocol.  In short, I cannot get
> a working chat script to log me into my  ISP if I select PPP protocol on
> the modem.  Does any of this make any sense to you? (I hope so)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 20:30:59 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:45:39 -0800 (PST)
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Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation
From: Simon Shapiro <shimon@simon-shapiro.org>
To: Josef Grosch <jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com>
Subject: RE: Newly revised patch to calendar.judaic
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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On 11-Jan-98 Josef Grosch wrote:
> 
> Enclosed is a newly revised patch to bring calendar.judaic current with
> the
> common calendar. Thanks to Simon Shapiro for corrections and suggestions.
> 
> 
> Josef
> 
> 
> ------------------ENCLOSED-------------------ENCLOSED---------------------
> *** /usr/src/usr.bin/calendar/calendars/calendar.judaic       Mon Feb 24
> 17:57:43 1997
> --- calendar.judaic   Sat Jan 10 21:47:05 1998
> ***************
> *** 1,41 ****
>   /*
>    * Judaic
>    *
> !  * $Id: calendar.judaic,v 1.2.2.1 1997/02/25 01:57:43 mpp Exp $
>    */
>   
>   #ifndef _calendar_judaic_
>   #define _calendar_judaic_
>   
> ! 03/08*      Fast of Esther (Battle of Purim; 1 day before Purim; fast
day)
> ! 03/11*      Purim (Feast of Lots; 30 days before Pesach)
> ! 03/12*      Purim (Feast of Lots)
> ! 04/10*      Pesach (First Day of Passover; sabbatical)
> ! 04/11*      Pesach (sabbatical)
> ! 04/16*      Pesach (sabbatical)
> ! 04/17*      Pesach (Last Day of Passover; 8th day of Pesach; sabbatical)
> ! 04/30*      Yom HaAtzmaut (Israel Independence Day)
> ! 05/13*      Lag Ba`omer (Commemoration of the Great Rebellion)
> ! 05/22*      Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem)
> ! 05/30*      Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; 50 days after Pesach;
sabbatical)
> ! 05/31*      Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical)
> ! 07/10*      Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of
Jerusalem;
> !     fast day)
> ! 07/31*      Fast of Tish'a B'Av (Babylon/Rome destroys Holy Temple; fast
> day)
> ! 09/20*      First Day of Rosh Hashanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5741 ==
1980;
> !     sabbatical)
> ! 09/21*      Rosh Hashanah (sabbatical)
> ! 09/23*      Fast of Gedalya (Murder of Gedalya and subsequent Exile; 1
day
> !     after Rosh Hashanah; fast day)
> ! 09/29*      Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement; 9 days after Rosh Hashanah;
> !     sabbatical, fast day)
> ! 10/04*      Succos (Festival of Tabernacles; 14 days after Rosh
Hashanah;
                Sucoth, or Sucot

> !     sabbatical)
> ! 10/05*      Succos (sabbatical)
                Sucoth, or Sucot

> ! 10/10*      Hoshanah Rabba (7th day of Succos)
> ! 10/11*      Shmini Atzeres (8th Day of Gathering; 1 day after Succos;
> sabbatical)
> ! 10/12*      Shmini Atzeres/Simchas Torah (Rejoicing of the Law;
sabbatical)
> ! 12/12*      First Day of Chanukah
> ! 12/27*      Fast of Asara B'Tevet (Babylonians put siege on Jerusalem;
fast
> day)
>   
>   #endif /* !_calendar_judaic_ */
> --- 1,142 ----
>   /*
>    * Judaic
>    *
> !  * $Id: calendar.judaic,v 1.6 1998/01/11 05:47:04 jgrosch Exp $
>    */
>   
>   #ifndef _calendar_judaic_
>   #define _calendar_judaic_
>   
> ! 01/03*  Parashat Va-Yiggah
> ! 01/08*  Fast of Tevet
> ! 01/10*  Parashat Va-Yehi
> ! 01/17*  Parashat Shemot
> ! 01/24*  Parashat Va-Era
> ! 01/24*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
> ! 01/28*  Rosh Chodesh Shevat (Beginning of the month of Shevat)
> ! 01/31*  Parashat Bo
> ! 02/07*  Parashat Be-Shallah
> ! 02/07*  Shabbat Shirah
> ! 02/11*  Tu bi-Shevat
> ! 02/14*  Parashat Yitro       
> ! 02/21*  Parashat Mishpatim
> ! 02/21*  Shekalim
> ! 02/21*  Shabbat Mevarekhim 
> ! 02/27*  Rosh Chodesh Adar (Beginning of the month of Adar) 
> ! 02/27*  Be happy, It's Adar !
> ! 02/28*  Parashat Terumah
> ! 03/07*  Parashat Tezavveh
> ! 03/07*  Zaklor
> ! 03/11*  Fast of Esther (Battle of Purim; 1 day before Purim; fast day)
> ! 03/12*  Purim (Feast of Lots; 30 days before Pesach)
> ! 03/13*  Shushan Purim
> ! 03/14*  Parashat Ki Tissa
> ! 03/21*  Parashat Va-Yakhel/Pekudei
> ! 03/21*  Parah
> ! 03/21*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
> ! 03/28*  Parashat Va-Yikra
> ! 03/28*  Rosh Chodesh Nisan (Beginning of the month of Nisan)
> ! 04/04*  Parashat Zav
> ! 04/04*  Shabbat ha-Gadol
> ! 04/10*  Fast of the First born
> ! 04/11*  Pesach (First Day of Passover; sabbatical)
> ! 04/12*  Pesach (Second Day of Passover; sabbatical)
> ! 04/12*  Sefirat ha-Omer begins (Counting of the Omer)
> ! 04/18*  Pesach (Last Day of Passover; 8th day of Pesach; sabbatical)
> ! 04/18*  Yizkor
> ! 04/23*  Yom ha-Sho'ah (Remembrance of the Holocaust)
> ! 04/25*  Parashat Shemini
> ! 04/25*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
> ! 04/27*  Rosh Chodesh Iyar (Beginning of the month of Iyar)
> ! 04/16*  Pesach (sabbatical)
> ! 04/30*  Yom ha-Atzmaut (Israel Independence Day)
> ! 05/02*  Parashat Tazria/Mezora
> ! 05/09*  Parashat Aharei Mot/Kedoshim
> ! 05/09*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
> ! 05/14*  Lag Ba`omer (Commemoration of the Great Rebellion)
> ! 05/16*  Parashat Emor
> ! 05/23*  Parashat Be-Har/Be-Hukkotai
> ! 05/24*  Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem)
> ! 05/26*  Rosh Chodesh Sivan (Beginning of the month of Sivan)
> ! 05/30*  Parashat Be-Midbar
> ! 05/31*  Shavuot (Festival of Weeks; 50 days after Pesach; sabbatical)
> ! 06/01*  Shavuot (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical)
> ! 06/06*  Parashat Naso
> ! 06/13*  Parashat Be-Ha'alotkha
> ! 06/20*  Parashat Shelah
> ! 06/20*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
> ! 06/25*  Rosh Chodesh Tammuz (Beginning of the month of Tammuz)
> ! 06/27*  Parashat Korah   
> ! 07/04*  Parashat Hukkat
> ! 07/11*  Parashat Balak
> ! 07/12*  Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of Jerusalem; 
> !         fast day)
> ! 07/18*  Parashat Pinhas
> ! 07/18*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
> ! 07/24*  Rosh Chodesh Av (Beginning of the month of Av)
> ! 07/25*  Parashat Mattot/Masei
> ! 08/01*  Parashat Devarim
> ! 08/01*  Shabbat Hazon
> ! 08/02*  Fast of Tish'a B'Av (Babylon/Rome destroys Holy Temple; fast
> day)
> ! 08/08*  Parashat Va-Ethannan
> ! 08/08*  Shabbat Nahamu
> ! 08/15*  Parashat Ekev
> ! 08/15*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
> ! 08/22*  Parashat Re'eh
> ! 08/23*  Rosh Chodesh Elul (Beginning of the month of Elul)
> ! 08/23*  First sounding of the Shofar
> ! 08/29*  Parashat Shofetim
> ! 09/05*  Parashat Ki Teze
> ! 09/12*  Parashat Ki Tavo
> ! 09/19*  Parashat Nizzavim
> ! 09/20*  Erev Rosh ha-Shanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5759; sabbatical)
> ! 09/21*  First Day of Rosh ha-Shanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5759;
> sabbatical)
> ! 09/21*  Rosh Chodesh Tishri (Beginning of the month of Tishri)
> ! 09/23*  Fast of Gedalya (Murder of Gedalya and subsequent Exile; 1 day
> !         after Rosh Hashanah; fast day)
> ! 09/26*  Parashat Va-Yelekh
> ! 09/29*  Erev Yom Kippur
> ! 09/30*  Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement; 9 days after Rosh Hashanah;
> !         sabbatical, fast day)
> ! 10/03*  Parashat Ha'azinu
> ! 10/05*  Sucot (Festival of Tabernacles; 14 days after Rosh Hashanah;
> !         sabbatical)
> ! 10/06*  Sucot (sabbatical)
> ! 10/07*  Hol ha-Mo'ed
> ! 10/08*  Hol ha-Mo'ed
> ! 10/09*  Hol ha-Mo'ed
> ! 10/10*  Hol ha-Mo'ed
> ! 10/11*  Hoshana Rabba
> ! 10/12*  Shmini Atzeret (8th Day of Gathering; 1 day after Sucot;
> sabbatical)
> ! 10/13*  Shmini Atzeret/Simchas Torah (Rejoicing of the Law; sabbatical)
> ! 10/13*  Yizkor
> ! 10/17*  Parashat Bereshit
> ! 10/17*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
> ! 10/21*  Rosh Chodesh Heshvan (Beginning of the month of Heshvan)
> ! 10/24*  Parashat No'ah
> ! 10/31*  Parashat Lekh Lekha
> ! 10/10*  Hoshanah Rabba (7th day of Sucot)
> ! 11/07*  Parashat Va-Yera
> ! 11/14*  Parashat Hayyei Sarah
> ! 11/14*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
> ! 11/20*  Rosh Chodesh Kislev (Beginning of the month of Kislev)
> ! 11/21*  Parashat Toledot
> ! 11/28*  Parashat Va-Yeze
> ! 12/05*  Parashat Va-Yishlah
> ! 12/12*  Parashat Va-Yeshev
> ! 12/12*  Shabbat Mevarekhim
> ! 12/13*  Erev Hanukkah
> ! 12/14*  Hanukkah
> ! 12/15*  Hanukkah
> ! 12/16*  Hanukkah
> ! 12/17*  Hanukkah
> ! 12/18*  Hanukkah
> ! 12/19*  Hanukkah
> ! 12/20*  Hanukkah
> ! 12/21*  Hanukkah
> ! 12/19*  Parashat Mi-Kez
> ! 12/20*  Rosh Chodesh Tevet (Beginning of the month of Tevet)
> ! 12/26*  Parashat Va-Yiggash
> ! 
>   
>   #endif /* !_calendar_judaic_ */
> 
> ------------------ENCLOSED-------------------ENCLOSED---------------------
> 
> 
> -- 
> Josef Grosch           | Another day closer to a |    FreeBSD 2.2.5
> jgrosch@MooseRiver.com |   Micro$oft free world  | UNIX for the masses
> 

----------


Sincerely Yours, 

Simon Shapiro
Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG                      Voice:   503.799.2313

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 20:36:41 1998
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cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au, phk@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Weird syscons errors 
References: <199801111720.SAA05066@ocean.campus.luth.se>
In-Reply-To: <199801111720.SAA05066@ocean.campus.luth.se>
    from Mikael Karpberg at "Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:20:32 +0000"
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:34:49 +1000
From: Stephen McKay <syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au>
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On Sunday, 11th January 1998, Mikael Karpberg wrote:

>What happens is that after the probe messages have come up, I get no more
>output. The computer continues to boot to full multiuser mode, and I can
>log in, but I have to do it "blindly". There seems to be no way to the
>console into displaying anything except those frozen boot messages.

I had this problem.  Dropping into DDB causes the output to be displayed.
So using CTL-ALT-ESC and continue, I managed to get by until I could rewind
my kernel source a bit and go from there.

The problem is not in syscons, but (I believe) in the kern_timeout splitoff.
I regressed to just before phk's change (but after the syscons change):

>phk         1998/01/10 05:16:32 PST
>
>  Modified files:
>    sys/conf             files
>    sys/sys              systm.h
>    sys/kern             kern_clock.c kern_timeout.c
>  Log:
>  Effect the divorce of kern_clock.c and kern_timeout.c (which was
>  repository copied from kern_clock.c)
>
>  Revision  Changes    Path
>  1.118     +1 -0      src/sys/conf/files
>  1.66      +2 -2      src/sys/sys/systm.h
>  1.49      +2 -283    src/sys/kern/kern_clock.c
>  1.49      +20 -1111  src/sys/kern/kern_timeout.c

He seems to be still working on this (Hi Poul!) as a few commits after
this fix some bugs, including a "timeout race" in rev 1.52 of kern_clock.c.
Broken timeouts will cause lots of funny errors, so be careful!

Stephen.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 21:00:46 1998
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On 12-Jan-98 Duncan Barclay wrote:
>Well I have finsihed the first cut of bev and its available from
>http://www.ragnet.demon.co.uk/bev.tar.gz

Also at
http://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/bev-0.1.tar.gz

Duncan


---
________________________________________________________________________
Duncan Barclay          | God smiles upon the little children,
dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned.
________________________________________________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 21:26:08 1998
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To: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>
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Subject: Re: PAP login
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, John Kelly wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:13:28 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> Maddox) wrote:
> 
> >If I use PPP (which _does_ support channel bonding, and
> >which works great under W95 dial-up networking), the modem connects fine,
> >but instead of a login prompt, I just get garbage characters from the
> >modem.  I know the problem is something simple that I am just not quite
> >grasping
> 
> Yep! :)
> 
> Those garbage characters you see are the PPP handshake from the ISP.
> You simply need to do a PAP authentication directly without any login
> script.
[...]
> My call to pppd looks like:

Or if you guys are using user end ppp, it's even easier, just add:
set authname username
set authkey pass
accept pap
to your /etc/ppp/ppp.conf

El hombre mas brillante dijo una vez "Cuidado hay NT". (it's a nerd thing)

- alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 22:03:16 1998
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From: Lutz Albers <lutz@muc.de>
To: Jurij <jjurgel@usa.net>
Subject: RE: FreeBSD installing from FAT32
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On 12-Jan-98 Jurij wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Could you tell me please, is it possible to install FreeBSD from
> FAT32
> partition?

No, FreeBSD does not support FAT32 (nor does Linux or even WinNT :-).

That question does belong to the freebsd-questions mailing list anyway.

ciao
  lutz

--
Lutz Albers, lutz@muc.de
Do not take life too seriously, you will never get out of it alive.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 22:40:52 1998
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Message-Id: <199801120511.GAA12565@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: au files
To: guido@gvr.org (Guido van Rooij)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 06:11:55 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jbryant@unix.tfs.net, gjp@erols.com,
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> Talking of audio stuff: is it possible to have /dev/pcaudio behaving
> like a sound device? That would make it possible to play real audio
> via the built in speaker.

do you mean support more formats or speeds ? or just not abort when
presented with the Voxware ioctl() ?

	Cheers
	Luigi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 23:44:33 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>
cc: dmaddox@scsn.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: PAP login
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, John Kelly wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:58:08 -0500, dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J.
> Maddox) wrote:
> 
> >Thanks, John...  You are right on the money.  I never used PAP before,
> >so I didn't have a clue about this stuff.  All is working perfectly now.
> 
> What a bunch of grouchy responses from others who offered no helpful
> examples.  Folks, if you're just irritated by the questions why bother
> to reply at all?

  Not me.  But your example was for kernel mode PPP, which as it seems,
people don't use that often.

  Also, no one explained _why_ login prompts don't work.

> John

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 11 23:56:05 1998
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:55:49 -0800
From: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@efn.org>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>,
        =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=F1aky_P=E9rez_Gonz=E1lez?= <inaky@peloncho.fis.ucm.es>,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Doug White <dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu>
Subject: Re: Development of a UNIX-wide USB standard API
References: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980111101658.579B-100000@current1.whistle.com> <199801120232.NAA00901@word.smith.net.au>
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Mike Smith scribbled this message on Jan 12:
> > BTW I've redirected this to 'hackers@freebsd.org
> > as that's where development occurs (and in 'current')
> 
> Thanks Julian; we've been looking for something like this for a while 
> now.  8)
> 
> > On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, [ISO-8859-1] Iñaky Pérez González wrote:
> 
> > >         I'm the developer of the Linux USB Driver Stack. I wanted to
> > > let you know there's some interest at the USB Implementors Forum in
> > > the creation of a UNIX-wide USB API standard, and we'd like all
> > > flavours of Unix to attend.
> 
> At the moment, I don't believe there's anyone in the FreeBSD camp 
> active on USB.  Having said that, I'm sure that there are more than a 
> few people that would be *very* interested in seeing USB happen in a 
> standardised fashion.  Whether any of us would be able to attend USB 
> forum meetings is perhaps a different matter.  8(

actually, Doug White was thinking about doing some work on USB, but
I'm not sure if he's actually started anything or not...

> > >         Initially I was developing a Linux-only driver, however I
> > > started to try to make it portable to other free OSes. Anyhow, one day
> > > the suggestion of a UNIX USB compatible API raised and we are trying
> > > to get something done. Initially we are just calling people to join
> > > and give ideas (actually interested parties have something done). 
> 
> Naturally.  Is there a mailing list or other forum where one might 
> listen and perhaps contribute to the process?

-- 
  John-Mark Gurney                          Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954
  Cu Networking					  P.O. Box 5693, 97405

  Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 00:00:48 1998
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From: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
cc: Guido van Rooij <guido@gvr.org>, hasty@rah.star-gate.com,
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just support a little more of the interface, so that more can be done.. :)
(dummy returns etc.)


On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote:

> > Talking of audio stuff: is it possible to have /dev/pcaudio behaving
> > like a sound device? That would make it possible to play real audio
> > via the built in speaker.
> 
> do you mean support more formats or speeds ? or just not abort when
> presented with the Voxware ioctl() ?
> 
> 	Cheers
> 	Luigi
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 00:01:04 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:26:50 +0300 (MSK)
From: Denis Kalinin <denis@sokol.npi.msu.su>
To: Stephen McKay <syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au>
cc: Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
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Subject: Re: Weird syscons errors 
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Stephen McKay wrote:

> Broken timeouts will cause lots of funny errors, so be careful!
> 
> Stephen.
> 

 Noticed several "funny" things happened since recompiling on sunday
 morning like 
   console not working as said before,
   remote terminal session is freezing without any notice, 
   pine and exmh are freezing after sending any single mail. 
 Could'nt think these are all connected :)
  Thanks for helping out.   
					Denis Kalinin.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 00:12:43 1998
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	Smith on Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:18:00 +1030)
Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems...
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
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>> It would seem to me that your best bet would be to consider making a
>> custom version of 'getty' with libvgl, since getty is going to
>> determine how idle time between logins should be handled.  That's
>> pretty well out of syscons's jurisdiction.
>> Actually, making just such a thing just got put on my TODO list.
> It's a very short step from there to a semi-graphical login (eg. login 
> dialog rather than login/password prompt.)  I could see people liking 
> that.

Good point, although the graphical login window is really best handled
by xdm, and I don't really see people wanting a graphical login window
being requested without a full graphics system (ie, X).

Okay, let me get opinions:

* What do people want?  I see a couple of possibilities:
1. A graphical idle screen that shows things like fractals or bitmaps
with rotating palettes,
2. Something that shows some useful system stats (number of users,
system load, memory usage), possibly floating on a 'pretty'
background,
3. Something that shows just a login window

* Is this really going to be the best way to go about it?

* Has somebody else already done this?

* What other thoughts does anybody have?

I'll probably start working on this tonight or tomorrow, but
suggestions will be appreciated through the life of this thing's
work.

Best,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 00:15:03 1998
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Message-Id: <199801120647.HAA12668@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: au files
To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:47:04 +0100 (MET)
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> just support a little more of the interface, so that more can be done.. :)
> (dummy returns etc.)

that wouldn't be hard, just look at the ioctl section in
/sys/i386/isa/snd/sound.c which implements all the generic ioctl for
audio.

Of course you have to live with the limitations with /dev/pcaudio which
gives about 5-6 bits of resolution, and I doubt the max sample
rate (currently 8 KHz) can go much higher than 11025.

This said, I have used my "tel" (vat-like) application with
/dev/pcaudio and sort of works, the application just ignores the
failures returned from the ioctl and assumes a default behaviour for
the device.

/dev/pcaudio is much like /dev/audio if you don't have to change modes.

	cheers
	luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 00:35:19 1998
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Message-Id: <199801120834.JAA29883@gvr.gvr.org>
Subject: Re: au files
In-Reply-To: <199801120511.GAA12565@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Jan 12, 98 06:11:55 am"
To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:34:44 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jbryant@unix.tfs.net, gjp@erols.com,
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Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> > Talking of audio stuff: is it possible to have /dev/pcaudio behaving
> > like a sound device? That would make it possible to play real audio
> > via the built in speaker.
> 
> do you mean support more formats or speeds ? or just not abort when
> presented with the Voxware ioctl() ?

I want to run the real audio player ;-). So what I'd like is to
link /dev/audio to /dev/pcaudio and go.

-Guido

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 00:55:04 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:32:36 +0100 (MET)
From: Zoltan Sebestyen <sebesty@cs.elte.hu>
To: FreeBSD questions mailinglist <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
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Hi,

 I've just examing the source code of kscd, a workman based CD player for
the KDE project. In the FreeBSD/NetBSD dependent source file I found some
'ifdef' directives that are somewhat mysterious to me. They disable parts
of the code that are supposed to work on FreeBSD(at least they work on my
2.2.2-RELEASE system, and they're even necessary for the player to work
well!). Below I attached the parts of the code I mentioned. The lines
starting with an exclamation mark (!) are still in the source code, but I
think they should have to be removed.  Please tell me if with the removal
of these directives the code will be well functioning or not.

***************
*** 243,254 ****
  	}
  
  	if (ioctl(d->fd, CDIOCREADSUBCHANNEL, &sc)) {
! #ifdef __NetBSD__
  	    /* we need to release the device so the kernel will notice
  	       reloaded media */
  	    (void) close(d->fd);
  	    d->fd = -1;
! #endif
  		return (0);	/* ejected */
  	}

--- The next part ---  
***************
*** 398,407 ****
  	msf.end_f	= end % 75;
  
  	/* According to Marc van Kempen FreeBSD doesn't have CDIOCSTART -- Bernd */
! #ifndef __FreeBSD__
  	if (ioctl(d->fd, CDIOCSTART))
  		return (-1);
! #endif
  	if (ioctl(d->fd, CDIOCPLAYMSF, &msf))
  		return (-2);
  
***************
*** 427,441 ****
  	if (fstatfs(stbuf.st_rdev, &buf) == 0)
  		return (-3);
  
! #ifdef __NetBSD__
  	rval = ioctl(d->fd, CDIOCALLOW);
  	if (rval == 0)
! #endif
  	    rval = ioctl(d->fd, CDIOCEJECT);
! #ifdef __NetBSD__
  	if (rval == 0)
  	    rval = ioctl(d->fd, CDIOCPREVENT);
! #endif
  	return rval;
  }
  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sebestyen Zoltan			It all seems so stupid,
					it makes me want to give up. 
szoli@digo.inf..elte.hu			But why should I give up,
                                        when it all seems so stupid? 

					MAKE INSTALL NOT WAR



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 01:45:16 1998
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Hi,

I´ve a big problem. I want to install FreeBSD as a firewall & proxy
server with fwtk.
In the server are one ethernet and one token ring card but there is no
token ring driver.
Does anyone have one or can I use the token ring driver from S.u.S.E
Linux 4.4.1????????

Thanks in advance
    Egon
--
Barfusz Egon jun.
Gottschallingerstr. 6
4030 Linz
mailto:egon@computronic.at



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 02:32:32 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: sharable static arrays?
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
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Are static arrays shared across multiple invocations of a program?

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 03:24:54 1998
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Message-ID: <19980112112455.48744@flix.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:24:55 +0000
From: Chrisy Luke <chrisy@flix.net>
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Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
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Joel Ray Holveck wrote (on Jan 12):
> Are static arrays shared across multiple invocations of a program?

Not intrinsicly. You'll have to either use SYS-V style shared
memory (options SYSVSHM SYSVSEM SYSVMSG in a kernel config and
shmget(2) etc) or use BSD style mapped memory (mmap(2)).

Chris.
-- 
== chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org.
== Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 04:31:10 1998
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Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems...
In-Reply-To: <199801120248.NAA01045@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Jan 12, 98 01:18:00 pm"
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<<< No Message Collected >>>

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 04:47:57 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:54:08 -0200
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Capriotti <capriotti@geocities.com>
Subject: boot manager 
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Hi. I guess someone already asked about it before, but ...

I'm trying - w/o success - to boot a 3rd IDE HD installed on my system.

If I run bootinst.exe from DOs, it won't recognize the HD.

Installing from sysinstall - custom install - seems not to work, though it
recognizes the 3rd disk.

Any tips ?

thanks.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 05:25:57 1998
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> Hi. I guess someone already asked about it before, but ...
> 
> I'm trying - w/o success - to boot a 3rd IDE HD installed on my system.

In the general case, you cannot do this.

> Any tips ?

You might want to look at other boot selectors (eg. OS-BS, System 
Commander, etc.); I'm not certain whether any of them can boot beyond 
the first two BIOS disks.
-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 05:58:11 1998
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I know this list may not be adequate for this question, but AFAIK, no list
is.

I'd like to know if there is any provision on TCP protocol for
wide-character tcp streams. Feel free to answer privately if you find this
too off-topic.

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 06:03:41 1998
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Subject: Token Ring info
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I am interested on writting a device driver for a few token ring cards.

I am not quite sure how I should attack such a problem.  Does anyone know
where I can get the technical refrence guide to IBM token ring cards?  Is
there anyone else developing such a device driver?

How different are Linux drivers to freebsd drivers?  Would it be better to
try to port the linux driver, or start from scratch?

Any help would be appreciated.

Michael Knoll
knollm@lafcol.lafayette.edu

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 06:12:31 1998
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From: David Dawes <dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: Capriotti <capriotti@geocities.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 11:49:13PM +1030, Mike Smith wrote:
>> Hi. I guess someone already asked about it before, but ...
>> 
>> I'm trying - w/o success - to boot a 3rd IDE HD installed on my system.
>
>In the general case, you cannot do this.
>
>> Any tips ?
>
>You might want to look at other boot selectors (eg. OS-BS, System 
>Commander, etc.); I'm not certain whether any of them can boot beyond 
>the first two BIOS disks.

It works for me with OS-BS.

David

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 06:17:22 1998
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Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems...
In-Reply-To: <199801120216.MAA00815@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Jan 12, 98 12:46:02 pm"
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:13:13 +0100 (CET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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According to Mike Smith:
> That'd be pretty straightforward; I'd suggest an rc.conf option to 
> change the "running" splash, either "NO" (do nothing), "CLEAR" (remove 
> the splash) or the path of a new splash to put up once the system was 
> up.

Splash will start if there is a /boot.splash (or whatever.. I'd like all those
things in /boot/ (splash, config, etc))? And if not, it will boot like it does
now, with text? Ok... so then when we get to the rc scripts you can set an
option to something. Well... How about this instead? Make a screen saver
that displays a splash screen image, and simply make syscons "timeout"
instantly. That could be nice for any screensaver, so it would be more general.
Something like:

blanktime="300"
saver="splash"
saver_instant_boot_timeout="YES"

And make the splash screensaver use something like "/etc/splash-image"
and "/etc/splash-logged-in-image" depending on if there is someone logged
in or if getty is running. Would that be possible? I think that would be way
cool. And at the same time, seems more versatile.

> It is already; any VT switch will clear the splash, and there's a 
> keymap token for toggling it back.  I was considering the "window" key, 
> actually, although that leaves out a lot of people with older 
> keyboards...

So? It could easilly be added on SHIFT-ESC or something also, ofcourse.
It's not like it's an essential function. :-)

  /Mikael


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 06:23:13 1998
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> > It's a very short step from there to a semi-graphical login (eg. login 
> > dialog rather than login/password prompt.)  I could see people liking 
> > that.
> 
> Good point, although the graphical login window is really best handled
> by xdm, and I don't really see people wanting a graphical login window
> being requested without a full graphics system (ie, X).

I just thought it would look "pretty".

> Okay, let me get opinions:
> 
> * What do people want?  I see a couple of possibilities:
> 1. A graphical idle screen that shows things like fractals or bitmaps
> with rotating palettes,

This is commonly called a "screensaver".  I would suggest that any 
effort in this direction be focussed on providing an interface for 
graphical screensavers.

> 2. Something that shows some useful system stats (number of users,
> system load, memory usage), possibly floating on a 'pretty'
> background,

Just another case of 1.

> 3. Something that shows just a login window

Kinda makes it seem fairly pointless, doesn't it?  Given that you have 
to deal with forking off login and all that, it stops being attractive 
fairly quickly.

> * Is this really going to be the best way to go about it?

No.  Reflection doesn't really indicate that.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 07:33:51 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:32:16 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
Reply-To: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 daniel_sobral@voga.com.br wrote:

> I'd like to know if there is any provision on TCP protocol for
> wide-character tcp streams.

I don't know the specific answer, but the definition of a wide
character itself is pretty vague.  For example ISO10646
(~Unicode) has specification for both 16 and 32 bit characters,
both of which would be considered "wide".  Unix wide character
implementations generally define "wide" as large enough to handle
any locale the vendor plans to support, and it may vary from
implementation to implementation.

For network communications using ISO10646/Unicode, byte encodings
such as UTF-7 or UTF-8 make things such as wide-character tcp
streams irrelevant, and they head off endian debates in the
process.

-john


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 08:57:57 1998
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From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: Michael Knoll <knollm@lafcol.lafayette.edu>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Token Ring info
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Michael Knoll wrote:
> I am interested on writting a device driver for a few token ring cards.

Woohoo!

> I am not quite sure how I should attack such a problem.  Does anyone know
> where I can get the technical refrence guide to IBM token ring cards? 

Linux wouldn't be a bad place to start.

> Is there anyone else developing such a device driver?

I know that this isn't the first time this topic has come up on the
FreeBSD lists.

> How different are Linux drivers to freebsd drivers?  Would it be better to
> try to port the linux driver, or start from scratch?

I think the Linux driver might not be a bad place to look for information
on talking to the actual hardware but writing the hardware drivers is only
half of the problem.

I'm slowly working on getting token ring hardware and may be able to
assist with this effort some time in the future.

/* 
   Matthew N. Dodd		| A memory retaining a love you had for life	
   winter@jurai.net		| As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to
   http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53	
*/


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 08:58:05 1998
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I hinted in my reply, but I guess I was too sleepy to be very clear :-)

Login prompts require an end-to-end asynchronous connection.

ISDN is synchronous.  

Portmasters and Ascends, at least, can't manage a terminal session
over a synchronous connection.

Using V.120 does sync/async conversion, so with V.120 you _can_ get
a login prompt, and run asynchronous PPP framing.

However, if you want to do Multilink PPP, you have to run synchronous
PPP framing.  The BitSURFR is one of those cool devices that convert
asynchronous PPP frames into synchronous PPP or MP frames.

OK, it still might not be clear, I've only had one cup of coffee yet
this morning :-)

Jacques Vidrine <n@nectar.com>

On 11 January 1998 at 23:29, Tom <tom@sdf.com> wrote:
>   Also, no one explained _why_ login prompts don't work.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 09:38:02 1998
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From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
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Subject: Purify/Insure++
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Anyone know of something similar to the above that works under FreeBSD?
Or, hell, even under the Linux emulation? :(




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 09:39:37 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:34:53 +0100
From: Philippe Regnauld <regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk>
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
References: <19980111150619.48677@scsn.net> <34b95e60.140553@mail.cetlink.net> <34B957B6.AEC4CDAF@scsn.net> <34bf6bef.3609890@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111194120.34679@scsn.net> <34c17b19.7493033@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111203118.15860@scsn.net> <34c48361.9613962@mail.cetlink.net> <19980111211328.42326@scsn.net>
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Donald J. Maddox writes:
> 
> The AT command to use both B channels is 'AT@B0=2' on the BitSURFR; however,
> it has 3 different rate adaption protocols: V.120, AIMux, and PPP.  If I
> use V.120, everything works great, but, unfortunately, V.120 does not support
> channel bonding.  

	Err.. I do 2x64 bundling everyday from home to the office on ZyXEL TAs using
	V.120 (between pppd and iijppp).


-- 
 -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]-
  "Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and
             the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?"
   - S. Kelly Bootle, about Cerberus ["MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib] -

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 09:59:34 1998
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From: Mitch Lichtenberg <mitch@pa.dec.com>
To: "'Matthew N. Dodd'" <winter@jurai.net>,
        "'Michael Knoll'"
	 <knollm@lafcol.lafayette.edu>
Cc: "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: Token Ring info
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:55:55 -0800
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Information on older ISA-bus IBM Token-Ring cards can be 
obtained from IBM in the "IBM Local-Area Network Technical Reference."
IBM P/N SC30-3383-03 39F9353.  It's really cryptic stuff.
You'll also want to have the IEEE 802.5 spec handy,
and the spec that talks about source routing.

It's been a while since I hacked token-ring hardware, so I don't know
if there is updated info from IBM on their PCI cards.

/Mitch.



>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Matthew N. Dodd [SMTP:winter@jurai.net]
>Sent:	Monday, January 12, 1998 8:57 AM
>To:	Michael Knoll
>Cc:	hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
>Subject:	Re: Token Ring info
>
>On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Michael Knoll wrote:
>> I am interested on writting a device driver for a few token ring cards.
>
>Woohoo!
>
>> I am not quite sure how I should attack such a problem.  Does anyone know
>> where I can get the technical refrence guide to IBM token ring cards? 
>
>Linux wouldn't be a bad place to start.
>
>> Is there anyone else developing such a device driver?
>
>I know that this isn't the first time this topic has come up on the
>FreeBSD lists.
>
>> How different are Linux drivers to freebsd drivers?  Would it be better to
>> try to port the linux driver, or start from scratch?
>
>I think the Linux driver might not be a bad place to look for
>information
>on talking to the actual hardware but writing the hardware drivers is
>only
>half of the problem.
>
>I'm slowly working on getting token ring hardware and may be able to
>assist with this effort some time in the future.
>
>/* 
>   Matthew N. Dodd		| A memory retaining a love you had for life	
>   winter@jurai.net		| As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to
>   http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53	
>*/
>

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 10:20:20 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801121819.LAA24153@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards
To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:19:47 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jamie@itribe.net, jdevale@ece.cmu.edu,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801100346.TAA04537@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jan 9, 98 07:46:29 pm
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>  * 1)	Map a zero filled page to page zero.  This causes the NULL
>  * 	to be treated, incorrectly, as a NULL valued string instead
>  * 	of a NULL.  A process which is still running can be examined
>  * 	via /proc for the address space mappings to see if it has
>  * 	triggered the page 0 mapping.
> 
> What the bleep is a "NULL valued string"?  Are you aware that the
> so-called NULL pointer (or rather "0 in a pointer context") is not
> necessarily equal to a bit string of all zero's?  (What was that
> example of this not being true, hmm, was it a PDP-11?)

If you map a zero filled page to page zero, then a dereference of
page zero (ie: a NULL pointer) returns a string of zeros.

The PDP/11 had a string that was non-NULL mapped at page zero because
the process mapping started at page 0, and so the PDP/11 "magic" was
referenced instead of a bit string of all zeros (0177555, if my
memory is not failing -- that's an octal short.).

Also, you're right that the standard allows for a non-zero value
for NULL.  I don't know of anyone who uses this; it's pretty much
in there to cause problems, like a lot of other "features", ie: the
assumption that certain optimizations are allowable unless they are
explicitly disallowed, etc..


> Oh, you mean an empty string?  Oh, ok.  That has nothing to do with
> NULL though.  (And there is no such thing as "NULL byte"...try "null
> character' instead.)

Heh.  I expected SEF to stomp in my cheerios here first.  8-).

If you:

	#include <stdio.h>

	main()
	{
		char    c = NULL;

		printf( "The value of a NULL character is %d\n", c);

		exit( 0);
	}

The program, when compiled, does not bitch about the "loss of precision"
in the assignment in the declaration of 'c'.  8-).

The program, when run, displays:

	The value of a NULL character is 0

I'd say the compiler says that 'c' is a "NULL character", until it
bitches, properly, about the assignment.

The useful thing about thinking about it this way is that wchar_t
types keep working, whereas if I defined a "null character" on a
non-two's complement architecture, it would be damaged to a non-zero
valued wchar_t on sign extension.

Heh.


So pretty much until you fix the compiler, I'm going to keep my
terminology as fuzzy as the compiler's enforcement.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 10:22:19 1998
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To: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
Cc: Michael Knoll <knollm@lafcol.lafayette.edu>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Token Ring info 
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My understanding is the IBM tokenring cards don't support
promiscious mode, hence no tcpdump.

Olicom is currently writing a beta linux device driver.


-- 
marty
leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com  
The Feynman problem solving Algorithm
        1) Write down the problem
        2) Think real hard
        3) Write down the answer
                Murray Gell-mann in the NY Times





From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 10:38:54 1998
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To: Stephen Hocking <shocking@mailbox.uq.edu.au>
cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Quake page 
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             <199801121317.XAA00414@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au> 
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syscall 163 is the linux system call mremap which we have not implemented.

If anyone knows how to implement mremap  please let me know.

	Tnks,
	Amancio

> > Again,
> > 
> > I had q2test working and glquake II was just released about a week ago.
> > 
> > 
> > q2test was supposed to be the core technology that quake II was going
> > to use and in fact from postings on 3dfx.glide.linux it was stated
> > that quake II had not changed that much from q2test.
> > 
> > 	Amancio
> > 
> As far as I can see, it's falling over on an unimplemented syscall, to wit 
> setup #163. ktrace calls it setdomainname (!) and truss calls it
> "-- UNKNOWN SYSCALL 163". I know that q2test used call this frequently 
> (and have it pollute the kernel log) a great deal, but apparently it didn't 
> check the return status. It looks as if the retail version does.
> 
> 
> 	Stephen
> 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 11:11:56 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
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Subject: Re: 16650 Support(?)
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Philippe Regnauld wrote:

> Donald J. Maddox writes:
> > 
> > The AT command to use both B channels is 'AT@B0=2' on the BitSURFR; however,
> > it has 3 different rate adaption protocols: V.120, AIMux, and PPP.  If I
> > use V.120, everything works great, but, unfortunately, V.120 does not support
> > channel bonding.  
> 
> 	Err.. I do 2x64 bundling everyday from home to the office on ZyXEL TAs using
> 	V.120 (between pppd and iijppp).

  Except that V120 results in really bad performance.

  Some TAs can't make bonded V120 calls.  No big deal, because V120 is
terrible for PPP anyhow.

> -- 
>  -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]-
>   "Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and
>              the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?"
>    - S. Kelly Bootle, about Cerberus ["MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib] -
> 
> 

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 11:18:13 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801121916.MAA27296@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
To: dap@damon.com (Damon Anton Permezel)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:16:04 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dap@damon.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com,
        nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > file containing address range "./dladdr"
> 
> This is the bug.  If you don't use "./dladdr", but put it somewhere in you
> $PATH, then what happens?

Behaviour is undefined (argv[ 0] is filled out by the shell, which
makes it dependent upon the shell implementation as to what value
gets thrown in there.

I used (launch.c):

	#include <unistd.h>
	main()
	{
		execl( "./dladdr", "frobozzco", NULL);
	}

And, of course, got:

	file containing address range "frobozzco"

8-).

> The point I am attempting to make is that this is not the only use made of
> it.  Look at jre_md.c.  You will see that in that instance, they are
> attempting to get the path to the executable, via explicitly using a
> non-shared address, which, as you point out, returns the equivalent of
> argv[0].
> 
> They are expecting this to be the full, absolute path.

They're loons.  8-).

You can't dictate shell behaviour like this.  I could, as easily,
given the real name, but lied about the value of "PATH", calling
execle() to substitute an environment.  This would have made any
attempt to look up the real path, from a relative path, fail.

The reason I'm kind of harping on this point is that I want an
execution calss that starts a "script interpreter" in a JRE.  I
*want* to substitute the environment, and load a JIT'ing JRE
with the actuall class name as an argument, when the class file is
referenced directly, by name, in an execve.

In other words, I want java support "in the kernel".


> Since you have access to solaris, and have that programme at hand,
> please run it from a $PATH location, and let me know if it gives you
> the full path or not.

It gives me (the executable is not in the current directory):

	file containing address range "dladdr"

Sorry.  This is probably why Sun has the shell script glue with
the full path specified.  They are making presumptions about their
shells.


> if not, then the code to implement this doesn't make sense, is broken, and
> we don't have to worry about it.

Technically, it can be argued that crt0.o should not be doing the
ld.so mmap... that instead, the mapping should be done by the execution
class loader; at the same time, the execution class loader should
pre-stuff the expanded path to the file exec'ed into the data space
of the newly mapped ld.so.

There is actually space reserved at the front of the process address
map for a zero page, folloed by an ld.so mapped by the program loader
instead of teh crt0.o.

The loader would also have to stuff the .entry for the loaded
executable into the ld.so data space as well, and then jump to the
ld.so's .entry and assume the ld.so will call the entry by reference
from it's data space when it is done with constructing virtual base
classes for C++ libraries, or whatever the heck it thinks it needs to
do.  Probably it will always map libc.so, if only for the system calls
(makes you want a seperate ELF segment for system calls vs. other libc
routines... 8-)).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 11:22:35 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:18:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug White <dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu>
Reply-To: Doug White <dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu>
To: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>,
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Subject: Re: Development of a UNIX-wide USB standard API
In-Reply-To: <19980111235549.20580@hydrogen.nike.efn.org>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote:

> > At the moment, I don't believe there's anyone in the FreeBSD camp 
> > active on USB.  Having said that, I'm sure that there are more than a 
> > few people that would be *very* interested in seeing USB happen in a 
> > standardised fashion.  Whether any of us would be able to attend USB 
> > forum meetings is perhaps a different matter.  8(
> 
> actually, Doug White was thinking about doing some work on USB, but
> I'm not sure if he's actually started anything or not...

Not yet and probably not for a long time.  Other projects are higher up on
the todo list, one of those being graduating :-)  If anyone else has time
and/or knowledge, please go for it.  I still have to buy a USB header for
my asus board and some usb device to test with :-)

I like the idea though.  When you say `attend', do you mean virtually or
physically?

> > > >         Initially I was developing a Linux-only driver, however I
> > > > started to try to make it portable to other free OSes. Anyhow, one day
> > > > the suggestion of a UNIX USB compatible API raised and we are trying
> > > > to get something done. Initially we are just calling people to join
> > > > and give ideas (actually interested parties have something done). 
> > 
> > Naturally.  Is there a mailing list or other forum where one might 
> > listen and perhaps contribute to the process?

Echo.

Doug White                              | University of Oregon  
Internet:  dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu    | Residence Networking Assistant
http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite    | Computer Science Major



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 11:33:39 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801121932.MAA27920@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Change to config(8)
To: brian@awfulhak.org (Brian Somers)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:32:10 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> I'd like to commit this change, but I don't know if it's correct.
> 
> AFAICT, because the minor() bit of a dev_t is only 8 bits, minors of >
> 256 are useless.  They also break the -current DEVFS code in that you 
> end up with an increased major number (oops!) if you (for example)
> 
>   pseudo-device tun 257
> 
> However, I haven't committed it because I don't know where things 
> like /dev/sd0s1 get their minors (0x00020002).

Too much crap is encoded in minors.  That's the main reason for DEVFS,
in my mind.  You *can't* netboot a FreeBSD box from a non-FreeBSD
box in most cases because you *can't* mount a /dev with large enough
minor's in the mknod for a physical /dev in the NFS mounted root.

IMO, I think "tun" and other devices should be clone devices; this
would allow you to dynamically allocate them without having to
specify a hard count.

You could still enforce a quota on instances, assuming you wanted to
for whatever reason unknown to me...


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 11:33:50 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: Chrisy Luke <chrisy@flix.net>
cc: joelh@gnu.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Chrisy Luke wrote:

> Joel Ray Holveck wrote (on Jan 12):
> > Are static arrays shared across multiple invocations of a program?
> 
> Not intrinsicly. You'll have to either use SYS-V style shared
> memory (options SYSVSHM SYSVSEM SYSVMSG in a kernel config and
> shmget(2) etc) or use BSD style mapped memory (mmap(2)).

  Remember these are _static_ arrays, which mean they are directly coded
into C.  And yes, they should be shared across multiple invocations,
although it can be difficult to see this.  COW is used heavily, so even
things that can change aften often shared, up to the point they are
changed. 

> Chris.
> -- 
> == chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org.
> == Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC.

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 11:41:06 1998
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From: Chrisy Luke <chrisy@flix.net>
To: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
Cc: joelh@gnu.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
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Tom wrote (on Jan 12):
> 
> On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Chrisy Luke wrote:
> 
> > Joel Ray Holveck wrote (on Jan 12):
> > > Are static arrays shared across multiple invocations of a program?
> > 
> > Not intrinsicly. You'll have to either use SYS-V style shared
> > memory (options SYSVSHM SYSVSEM SYSVMSG in a kernel config and
> > shmget(2) etc) or use BSD style mapped memory (mmap(2)).
> 
>   Remember these are _static_ arrays, which mean they are directly coded

He said static, not const. There's a difference. Static data can be
modified, it's just by inference hidden from higher scopes.

Static memory is shared (it's setup by the C startup module) in so far
as the initial state is the same. Any changes will not be seen across
multiple invokations. For that, you need shared memory of some nature.

In this case, of course, the area should be marked volatile... :-)

Chris.
-- 
== chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org.
== Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 11:44:43 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801121944.MAA28476@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: New typedefs in sys/types.h
To: brian@awfulhak.org (Brian Somers)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:44:29 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> With the upcoming Alpha stuff, it looks like there are going to be 
> some problems..... I'm assuming that a `long' is gonna be 64 bits 
> rather than 32.

I don't know about this.

Clearly, the u_long should be replaced by u_int32_t; that's a given.

But if a long is 64 bits, then what's 32 bits... a short?  And if a
short is 32 bits, what's 16 bits?

Technically, long should be 64 bits because sizeof(int) is <= sizeof(long);
but just as technically, a 64 bit int meets the "register size test"
and the "single bus cycle test" for "int-ness" (the same test that
*should* have made compiler writers use 16 bit int's on 68000/68010
chips).

The problem is that C fails to have sized types.

I'm not sure if the NetBSD/Alpha compiler uses int/long = 64 bits,
or uses "long long" (I'm not a home, so it's hard to check; I always
used sized types instead of int or long or long long).

It sort of points up another dichotomy, though...

I guess a 16 bit atomic type could be a short short?  Bletch; that's
as bad as a 64 bit value being a long long...


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 11:55:52 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: Chrisy Luke <chrisy@flix.net>
cc: joelh@gnu.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
In-Reply-To: <19980112194053.29382@flix.net>
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Chrisy Luke wrote:

> > > Joel Ray Holveck wrote (on Jan 12):
> > > > Are static arrays shared across multiple invocations of a program?
> > > 
> > > Not intrinsicly. You'll have to either use SYS-V style shared
> > > memory (options SYSVSHM SYSVSEM SYSVMSG in a kernel config and
> > > shmget(2) etc) or use BSD style mapped memory (mmap(2)).
> > 
> >   Remember these are _static_ arrays, which mean they are directly coded
> 
> He said static, not const. There's a difference. Static data can be
> modified, it's just by inference hidden from higher scopes.
> 
> Static memory is shared (it's setup by the C startup module) in so far
> as the initial state is the same. Any changes will not be seen across
> multiple invokations. For that, you need shared memory of some nature.

  Assuming you want changes visable to other invocations.  Many times you
do not.  But since he asked about static data, I assume that changes would
not be made.

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 12:32:11 1998
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From: Daniel Leeds <dleeds@dfacades.com>
Message-Id: <199801122034.MAA11453@inertia.dfacades.com>
Subject: 2.2.5-RELEASE land patch?
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:34:54 -0800 (PST)
Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG
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Hi,

I have a (*cough*) 386 sx-20 with 6megs ram running 2.2.5-RELEASE, with
about 80 or so megs free on the HD...what i want to know is if there
was a kernel patch to protect against land.c?

i cant do a whole make world since i dont have the space to go to
-STABLE...

anyone have a patch or know what needs to be recompiled specifically
to prevent the land.c attack?


-- 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Daniel Leeds			Systems Administrator
(310)-581-4100 X227		Digital Facades
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 12:39:27 1998
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Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
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Any proposals on how to fix the dladdr issue?

	Cheers,
	Amancio

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 12:40:44 1998
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The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> 
> Anyone know of something similar to the above that works under FreeBSD?
> Or, hell, even under the Linux emulation? :(

send them email
asking for a FreeBSD port..
they should eventually get enough requests..


the old BSDI versio did run a bit, but it's been discontinued.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 12:50:35 1998
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 98 00:09:22 am"
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At 12:07 am +0000 12/1/98, John S. Dyson wrote:
>I have a 16650 based card, and it appears to work well.  It would be
>interesting
>to figure out why mine works, and others don't.

Most 16[56]50s out there are broken, period. I find it amazing that
semiconductor manufacturers can't seem to get UARTs right.


--
Bob Bishop              (0118) 977 4017  international code +44 118
rb@gid.co.uk        fax (0118) 989 4254  between 0800 and 1800 UK



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 13:01:05 1998
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I've seen this twice now...
can someone who knows give him an answer?

julian

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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:06:11 -0800
From: Ishkhan Martirosian <ishkhan@mbox.amilink.net>
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Dear Sirs,

We are the Internet Provider and General Operator of the National Data
Transfer Network in Armenia.
We'd like to create  your  mirror site(ftp.am.freebsd.org) here in
Armenia for convenience of our local and regional partners.
What's your requirements for achieving this one?

Thank You


--------------ABD322CFF6D5DF3F54BC7E--


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 13:17:41 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801122116.OAA20006@usr09.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:16:57 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dap@damon.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com,
        nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801122038.MAA00995@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Jan 12, 98 12:38:47 pm
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> Any proposals on how to fix the dladdr issue?

Add it into crt0.o and ld.so.  The crt0.o add is required because
the ld.so mapping and symbol resoloution is done the wrong way.

The easiest answer is "go to ELF".

The next easiest answer is predicated on the answer to "how much
more hacking is the current maintainer of ld.so going to do in the
near future?" so someone else could hack it in and submit the patches
with some reasonable assurance that the patches will be committed...


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 13:27:51 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801122125.OAA20388@usr09.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems...
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:25:44 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: joelh@gnu.org, bsdhack@shadows.aeon.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801120248.NAA01045@word.smith.net.au> from "Mike Smith" at Jan 12, 98 01:18:00 pm
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> > It would seem to me that your best bet would be to consider making a
> > custom version of 'getty' with libvgl, since getty is going to
> > determine how idle time between logins should be handled.  That's
> > pretty well out of syscons's jurisdiction.
> > 
> > Actually, making just such a thing just got put on my TODO list.
> 
> It's a very short step from there to a semi-graphical login (eg. login 
> dialog rather than login/password prompt.)  I could see people liking 
> that.

They can enable it in the /etc/ttys.

Heh.  Reminds me.  I made an xdm clone of the NeXT login screen
a long time ago.  It even "shook" left and right on failure.  8-).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 13:41:57 1998
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To: dennis <dennis@etinc.com>
Cc: Tom <tom@sdf.com>, Jamie Bowden <jamie@itribe.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards
References: <3.0.32.19980109173418.00e5be40@etinc.com>
From: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>
Date: 12 Jan 1998 22:38:40 +0100
In-Reply-To: dennis's message of Fri, 09 Jan 1998 17:34:23 -0500
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dennis <dennis@etinc.com> writes:

> >  This is raw socket stuff is interesting.  Example source please.  I
> >don't believe this problem exists anymore.  I know that Julian fixed
> >problems with routing sockets.  As a side point, routing sockets and raw
> >sockets can only be accessed by root processes.
> 
> Just look in raw_usrreq(). the default case is a panic. 

Fixed in revision 1.12 as of April 27, 1997.

Do you have anything else?  (I don't think any of us want panic()s to
occur for userland errors, though I think they often are the correct
path for a kernel error.)

Eivind.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 13:45:54 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:44:32 -0700
From: Greg Skafte <skafte@worldgate.com>
To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: 3com 3C509B Combo card
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Over the last few weeks with various versions of RELENG_2_2 I've been
having a problem with my 3c509 cards.  It seems under conditions of high
traffic and high colision rates that the nic seems to get confused....

the machine doesn't lock or reboot, I just lose network conectivity.  
If I do an ifconfig ep0 down ; ifconfig ep0 up then I'm back.... 

has anyone else seen similar issues .... 


-- 
Email: skafte@worldgate.com	  Voice: +403 413 1910	  Fax: +403 421 4929
   #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 
--								          --
When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole
lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest
thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex.       (Janet Morris)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 13:57:36 1998
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From: "Peter Korsten" <pkorsten@XS4All.nl>
To: <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:49:56 +0100
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I have a laptop with a Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card. Does anybody
know whether there are (attempts to) drivers for either FreeBSD, other BSD's
or perhaps Linux? And perhaps some leads to port such a driver?

I don't know much about chipsets or the like, because a transatlantic link
was down today.

- Peter




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 13:57:38 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, capriotti@geocities.com,
        tom@sdf.com
Subject: Re: X based Free installation
References: <199801082125.OAA14363@usr06.primenet.com>
From: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>
Date: 12 Jan 1998 22:55:28 +0100
In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:25:08 +0000 (GMT)
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Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> writes:
> > Last, but not least.  Cost/benefit considerations.  Being that FreeBSD is
> > installed once in a blue moon on a system and being that there is no
> > market/financial incentive to make that boring but critical task look
> > pretty, why spend the effort?
> 
> There is a market advantage.  I think the Linux Advocacy has proven
> several times over that any market advantage should be taken, where
> it can be.  There is advantage to a larger installed base that goes
> beyond the financial incentives (which free software lacks).  The
> larger number of coders contributing to Linux than FreeBSD is *not*
> attributable solely to the philosophical and organizational differences
> between the camps.

Sure.  But there is a spiral here - more coders contributing -> more
users -> more coders contributing.

There is only one organizational problem with FreeBSD that I see
clearly today: Responsibility too often boils down to a group of
people, instead of one person.  I think each submission/contact to
FreeBSD should boil down to the responsibility of _one_ person.

I previously posted to chat advocating a mentor program which
basically boiled down to this (people that wanted to contribute could
mail committers and get a single contact person, who then were
responsible for their submissions).  I got almost no response.

Does this mean that I'm the only person that belive this would be
useful?

Eivind, who notice that this is almost no work to organize, and still
think it is _just_ what FreeBSD needs.

p.S. Sorry for the off-topic post, but it didn't work mailing this to
-chat :-(

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 14:43:07 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:42:21 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Purify/Insure++
In-Reply-To: <34BA7D96.41C67EA6@whistle.com>
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Julian Elischer wrote:

> The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> > 
> > Anyone know of something similar to the above that works under FreeBSD?
> > Or, hell, even under the Linux emulation? :(
> 
> send them email
> asking for a FreeBSD port..
> they should eventually get enough requests..

	I just had a discussion with one of their guys...his "solution" was to 
get a copy for Solaris and run it on one of my systems at work...my response
to that was that I wasn't prepared to spend a fortune for software that doesn't
run on *my* operating system where I do all my development work on...

	That was Insure++...like, come on, is it really that tough if software is
developed well, to port it from one Unix to another?

	I'm going to look at Purify next...

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 14:46:03 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
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        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
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             <199801122116.OAA20006@usr09.primenet.com> 
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If you can come up with a fix I will do my best to see that the
fix gets committed provided that the fix does not break the loader;futhermore,
I am happy to test the dladdr implementation.

	Tnks!
	Amancio

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 15:40:10 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801122339.QAA23345@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
To: chrisy@flix.net (Chrisy Luke)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:39:22 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: joelh@gnu.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > Are static arrays shared across multiple invocations of a program?
> 
> Not intrinsicly. You'll have to either use SYS-V style shared
> memory (options SYSVSHM SYSVSEM SYSVMSG in a kernel config and
> shmget(2) etc) or use BSD style mapped memory (mmap(2)).

They will be shared if your compiler puts them in your text section
instead of putting them in your data section.

Supposedly, GCC supports this.

Actually, -fwritable-strings defeats placing static strings into
your text segment (which is mapped read-only).

Ideally, all static data should be mapped copy-on-write.  I don't
think it's mapped, at this point; it probably needs a seperate ELF
section from the rest of data, to (1) force it to a page boundry
for it's mapping and (2) allow it to have seperate section flags to
indicate it should be treated as copy-on-write.


So it's "yes, if you do it right" and "no, but probable in the not
so near future if you don't do it right".


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 15:43:27 1998
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From: Stefan `Sec` Zehl <sec@42.org>
To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@iet.unipi.it>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: improved code to read audio CDs
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On Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 02:46:04PM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> Just a brief note -- there is some better code to read audio CDs from 
> ATAPI drives at
> 	http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/cdda980108.diffs

Just a quick question, do you plan to make patches for the IDE-Mitsumi
"mcd"-driver (fx001d) ? Or is that just impossible ? 

CU,
    Sec
-- 
You haven't seen _multitasking_ until you have seen
Doom and Quake run side by side.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 15:46:22 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801122345.QAA23572@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
To: jfieber@indiana.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:45:46 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980112101833.1419S-100000@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu> from "John Fieber" at Jan 12, 98 10:32:16 am
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> > I'd like to know if there is any provision on TCP protocol for
> > wide-character tcp streams.
> 
> I don't know the specific answer, but the definition of a wide
> character itself is pretty vague.  For example ISO10646
> (~Unicode) has specification for both 16 and 32 bit characters,
> both of which would be considered "wide".  Unix wide character
> implementations generally define "wide" as large enough to handle
> any locale the vendor plans to support, and it may vary from
> implementation to implementation.
> 
> For network communications using ISO10646/Unicode, byte encodings
> such as UTF-7 or UTF-8 make things such as wide-character tcp
> streams irrelevant, and they head off endian debates in the
> process.

The big issue would probably be resolved by htons() on the sender,
and ntohs() on the receiver.  Good reasons for DCE RPC...

We can argue about whether ISO 10646 specified wchar_t should be
16 or 32 bits... however, it's 16 bits on Windows 95/NT, and so
if we ever want to interoperate, we should be 16 bits as well.

It should be noted that only code page 0x00000000/0x???????? is
defined, so all code pages other than the first 16 bits with high
16 bits all zero are undefined (and unlikely to be defined in the
near future, if ever).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 15:50:27 1998
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: New typedefs in sys/types.h
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:48:34 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: brian@awfulhak.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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In some mail from Terry Lambert, sie said:
> 
> > With the upcoming Alpha stuff, it looks like there are going to be 
> > some problems..... I'm assuming that a `long' is gonna be 64 bits 
> > rather than 32.
> 
> I don't know about this.
> 
> Clearly, the u_long should be replaced by u_int32_t; that's a given.

Yup.

> But if a long is 64 bits, then what's 32 bits... a short?  And if a
> short is 32 bits, what's 16 bits?
> 
> Technically, long should be 64 bits because sizeof(int) is <= sizeof(long);
> but just as technically, a 64 bit int meets the "register size test"
> and the "single bus cycle test" for "int-ness" (the same test that
> *should* have made compiler writers use 16 bit int's on 68000/68010
> chips).
> 
> The problem is that C fails to have sized types.
> 
> I'm not sure if the NetBSD/Alpha compiler uses int/long = 64 bits,
> or uses "long long" (I'm not a home, so it's hard to check; I always
> used sized types instead of int or long or long long).

i believe i goes like...

long = 64 bits
int = 32 bits
short = 16 bits
char = 8 bits

and of course...

void * = 64 bits

Of course, wherever size matters, you should be using u_int32_t or
u_int16_t or u_int64_t.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 16:01:46 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
Cc: Michael Knoll <knollm@lafcol.lafayette.edu>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Token Ring info
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:01:53 GMT
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:57:24 -0500 (EST), "Matthew N. Dodd"
<winter@jurai.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Michael Knoll wrote:
>> I am interested on writting a device driver for a few token ring cards.
>
>Woohoo!
>

>I'm slowly working on getting token ring hardware and may be able to
>assist with this effort some time in the future.

If you have any EISA machines I've got some brand new SMC EISA token
ring cards I'll sell you little more than the shipping cost.

John






From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 16:10:36 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801130006.RAA24458@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: X based Free installation
To: perhaps@yes.no (Eivind Eklund)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:06:46 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, shimon@simon-shapiro.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
        capriotti@geocities.com, tom@sdf.com
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> Sure.  But there is a spiral here - more coders contributing -> more
> users -> more coders contributing.

This feedback loop is not unbounded.  It's closest analogy is a damped,
driven, harmonic oscillator.  You can't drive it beyond the damping
harmonic.

If you know a sailor, ask them about the relationship between the
length of the bow-wave and how fast a sailboat can go.  They will
tell you that after a certain wind speed, more wind won't make the
boat go faster.


> There is only one organizational problem with FreeBSD that I see
> clearly today: Responsibility too often boils down to a group of
> people, instead of one person.  I think each submission/contact to
> FreeBSD should boil down to the responsibility of _one_ person.

I'm not going to get into this right now; my opinions are known,
and you can look them up in the archives.  8-).


> I previously posted to chat advocating a mentor program which
> basically boiled down to this (people that wanted to contribute could
> mail committers and get a single contact person, who then were
> responsible for their submissions).  I got almost no response.
> 
> Does this mean that I'm the only person that belive this would be
> useful?

Probably.  Ask yourself if a mentor program will increase the
smallest harmonic wavelength of all harmonics that apply.  Define
the harmonics any way you want, or look in the archives for my
definitions, and use them.  Either way, I think a mentor program
won't really help resolve the issues resulting in the limit function.


> Eivind, who notice that this is almost no work to organize, and still
> think it is _just_ what FreeBSD needs.
> 
> p.S. Sorry for the off-topic post, but it didn't work mailing this to
> -chat :-(

Well, if you talk people into it here... you should establish a
metric up front so you can measure positive or negative impact;
otherwise everyone will be able to come to different conclusions
about the programs success, and you will just have a lot of people
arguing that whatever-there-mutually-contradictory-pet-point-is
was "proven" by the experiment.

You could even do a fuzzy boundry, and time-bind it:

o	If desired result X occurs by N time units after the
	program is established, the program shall be deemed
	successful and shall not be discontinued.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 16:19:42 1998
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Tom wrote (on Jan 12):
>   Assuming you want changes visable to other invocations.  Many times you
> do not.  But since he asked about static data, I assume that changes would
> not be made.

That may be so, but C's interpretation of "static" means that data doesn't
lose its value/contents when it is out of scope. It achieves this by
determining (albeit relative to the start of a segment of some nature) its
location as compile/link time.

Assigned strings are "const static" data by default, unless
-fwriteable-strings is applied, when they are merely static (and
most non-unix C startup code then fills the value in from a const
area as it does for all variables defined static at all levels of
scope - unix does it in the image loader by page mapping it).

Normal static data should not be in a shared segment since it's
local working data. const data could/should be shared since it's
value is, by definition, constant. There's probably as problem if
its value is not known at compile time, but it's not my problem...

Chris.
-- 
== chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org.
== Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 16:28:44 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801130027.RAA25349@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: New typedefs in sys/types.h
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:27:09 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, brian@awfulhak.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > Technically, long should be 64 bits because sizeof(int) is <= sizeof(long);
> > but just as technically, a 64 bit int meets the "register size test"
> > and the "single bus cycle test" for "int-ness" (the same test that
> > *should* have made compiler writers use 16 bit int's on 68000/68010
> > chips).

[ ... ]

> i believe i goes like...
> 
> long = 64 bits
> int = 32 bits

This is, of course, just the bogosity I was trying to avoid.

The sizeof(int) on an Alpha should clearly be 64 bits *unless*
the sizeof(long) was 32 bits, since sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long).
This is pretty obvious because an int is the "natural" size for
the processor; by implication:

1)	An int is the largest type that may be fetched or stored
	in a single bus cycle

2)	An int is the size of the largest atomically readable
	internal register

People who believe #1 made 68000/68010 ints 16 bits because of data
bus width.

People who believe #2 made 68000/68010 ints 32 bits because of the
register size.

Both of these people would make Alpha ints 64 bits.


When you define int as 32 bits here, you're doing it as a convenient
way of jamming a different atomic sized type in without having to
define a new atomic type to do it.  It's a cop-out.


While we are at it, we should consider the impact on the following:

	XDR
	RPC
	DCE RPC
	Structure Packing (Intra-structure Padding)
	Array Of Structure Packing (Inter-structure Padding)
	htonl()/ntohl()
	htons()/ntohs()

	etc.

Picking a "magic" value for "int" to keep access to an atomic type
that becomes inacessable because the language definition is obsolete,
or because POSIX mandates atomic types (off_t, anyone?) is a Bad(tm)
idea, and one that has been hashed through before...

The reason we have to have prototypes in scope is because the compiler
fails to promote to the largest atomic type for passing.  You could
argue that there is an assumption about sizeof(int)==sizeof(long) in
the compiler because of this.  The 68000/68010 Aztec C compiler (from
Manx) did not have this assumption.

Regardless, even if the assumption is wrong, there's no need to correct
it at this time because we bit the bullet on off_t using prototypes
needing to be in scope for off_t values to be used.  Even if we had
solved this by making 64 bits the "natural" size for passing (as we
*should* have), it's irrelevent, since the "natural" sizeof(int) on
an Alpha is 64...


> short = 16 bits
> char = 8 bits
> 
> and of course...
> 
> void * = 64 bits
> 
> Of course, wherever size matters, you should be using u_int32_t or
> u_int16_t or u_int64_t.

Frankly, I do not know what "short" should be.  It is only clear to
me that "int" should be 64 bits if long is 64 bits or larger, and so
allows int to be larger.

I *do* agree that we need 16 and 32 bit sized types; I have no idea
how they should be implemented.

If it weren't for the fact that there is also a need for an 8 bit
sized type, I'd be tempted to suggest that char's should be 16 bits
(at least it would get rid of that abomination before God of wchar_t
as seperate from char, and all "char *p; p++;" using code would
instantly become "16 bit Unicode clean"; then locales are a matter
of nothing more than data and input methods for a round trip character
set).


					A bit frustrated,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 16:54:48 1998
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From: Andrew Kenneth Milton <akm@mother.sneaker.net.au>
Message-Id: <199801130100.MAA20601@mother.sneaker.net.au>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:00:51 +1100 (EST)
Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801122345.QAA23572@usr08.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 12, 98 11:45:46 pm
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+-----[ Terry Lambert ]------------------------------
| 
| > > I'd like to know if there is any provision on TCP protocol for
| > > wide-character tcp streams.
| > 
| 
| We can argue about whether ISO 10646 specified wchar_t should be
| 16 or 32 bits... however, it's 16 bits on Windows 95/NT, and so
| if we ever want to interoperate, we should be 16 bits as well.

They didn't specify, they recommended that it be 16 bits internally. HPUX and
Solaris have it as a 32 bit int, even making code sharing with NT
(wow Microsoft did something correctly) a chore. They didn't specify
so that vendors could use a native word size to keep the implementation
quick-ish.


Yes I've read the ISO standard (actually the Australian Standard which
is identical to ISO 10646, but, cheaper to buy by an order of magnitude).
I've also read the Unicode Version 2 book.

Version 2 has a 32 bit UNICODE type as well (geez some people are going
to be annoyed that their language isn't accepted into Unicode, but,
Klingon was).
-- 
  ,-_|\  SneakerNet       |     Andrew Milton    |    GSM: +61(41)6 022 411
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From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 17:14:35 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:17:15 -0500
To: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>
From: dennis <dennis@etinc.com>
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards
Cc: Tom <tom@sdf.com>, Jamie Bowden <jamie@itribe.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 10:38 PM 1/12/98 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote:
>dennis <dennis@etinc.com> writes:
>
>> >  This is raw socket stuff is interesting.  Example source please.  I
>> >don't believe this problem exists anymore.  I know that Julian fixed
>> >problems with routing sockets.  As a side point, routing sockets and raw
>> >sockets can only be accessed by root processes.
>> 
>> Just look in raw_usrreq(). the default case is a panic. 
>
>Fixed in revision 1.12 as of April 27, 1997.
>
>Do you have anything else?  (I don't think any of us want panic()s to
>occur for userland errors, though I think they often are the correct
>path for a kernel error.)

2.2.5-RELEASE is shipped with v1.8 which is dated 3/11/96, so something
is amiss. If it takes a year for these fixes to make it into a release it
doesnt
do anyone any good...

dennis

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 17:28:02 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:38:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Coleman <chris@bb.cc.wa.us>
To: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>
cc: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>, shimon@simon-shapiro.org,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, capriotti@geocities.com, tom@sdf.com
Subject: Re: X based Free installation
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I think a mentor program would do wonders to FreeBSD.  It would help
introduce more programmers into the FreeBSD programming.  It would solve
several problems.

	1) New programmers would become assets to FreeBSD instead of
annoyances.
	2) New programmers could actually get code committed.
	3) Veteran programmers would get help on projects.

I'm speaking from experience here as a "new to programming" FreeBSD user.
I want to get into programming and would love to 'easily be able to find'
a person "in charge" of the area that I am interested in developing.
Also, as a novice in this area, I feel more like a annoyance to the whole
project, because I have to ask so many questions inorder to figure out the
"FREEBSD" way to program before I can get anything accomplished.

However, I really enjoy FreeBSD and the Programming opportunities that it
offers.  I am doing all that I can to make FreeBSD available to more
"average" users.  A mentor program would go along way in helping me to
become a true 'FreeBSD Hacker' that I really want to become.

Until that happens, I'll keep writing instead of programming.

Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com)
Computer Support Analyst I  (509)-762-6341
FreeBSD Book Project:  http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 17:28:32 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:27:21 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: dennis <dennis@etinc.com>
Cc: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>, Tom <tom@sdf.com>,
        Jamie Bowden <jamie@itribe.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 08:17:15PM -0500, dennis wrote:
> At 10:38 PM 1/12/98 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote:
>> dennis <dennis@etinc.com> writes:
>>> Just look in raw_usrreq(). the default case is a panic. 
>> 
>> Fixed in revision 1.12 as of April 27, 1997.
>> 
>> Do you have anything else?  (I don't think any of us want panic()s to
>> occur for userland errors, though I think they often are the correct
>> path for a kernel error.)
> 
> 2.2.5-RELEASE is shipped with v1.8 which is dated 3/11/96, so
> something is amiss. If it takes a year for these fixes to make it
> into a release it doesnt do anyone any good...

Well, this was fixed as a part of a major rewrite of that part of the
code.  The patch that fixes this is actually twice as large as the
raw_usrreq file.  I also _think_ it links in with more modifications
elsewhere, but I haven't looked to closely - it came in in a
mega-commit, at least.

At least be happy it is fixed in 3.0 :-)

Do you have any other cases of panic() being used incorrectly?

Eivind.




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 17:35:39 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:34:14 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: X based Free installation
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(Sorry for the harsh tone of some of the below, but I'm fairly
frustrated and have a toothache to boot.  I still stand behind it.)

On Tue, Jan 13, 1998 at 12:06:46AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote:
> > Sure.  But there is a spiral here - more coders contributing -> more
> > users -> more coders contributing.
> 
> This feedback loop is not unbounded.  It's closest analogy is a damped,
> driven, harmonic oscillator.  You can't drive it beyond the damping
> harmonic.

True.  However, I think we have three very clear bounding factors
right now:
(1) 'Minor contributors' don't get their work handled on a timely
    basis, and get disheartened and don't contribute again.  I know
    this has happened at least in some cases.
(2) We don't have all the sexy FreeBSD-based technology that is out
    there integrated properly.  An example of this is the fxtv port,
    which lag behind the one at the authors web-site.  This is tech
    that I _know_ that 'sells in' FreeBSD - I've had people switch
    from Linux to FreeBSD after seeing it demonstrated.
(3) Newcomers feel intimidated by the power structure (or at least I
    did, somewhat.)

The influence of all these three factors can be lowered by giving
people that want to to contribute their own contact (or at least
giving the people that want an own contact an own contact).  The cost
of this is very, very small, and the potential benefit is IMHO clearly
there.

> > There is only one organizational problem with FreeBSD that I see
> > clearly today: Responsibility too often boils down to a group of
> > people, instead of one person.  I think each submission/contact to
> > FreeBSD should boil down to the responsibility of _one_ person.
> 
> I'm not going to get into this right now; my opinions are known,
> and you can look them up in the archives.  8-).

As far as I've been able to tell (from reading your posts before, and
looking them up again now): You want FreeBSD to have sexy tech, to
expand the treshold for the number of participants, and to throw out
the core team (with no clear indication of what is to replace it, if
anything.)

All in all, handwaving, with no actual ways to solve any of the
problems, except that you claim to be able to supply some of the sexy
tech if people just didn't stand in your way.

All of the above has been extracted from a myriad of complex
metaphors, so please correct me if I've misunderstood something.

Now, I'm trying to come up with one pragmatic approach to how we can
increase the treshold for the number of participants without putting a
lot of non-existing resources at the problem.  If the approach don't
work, the most likely outcome is that no people register to actually
write code - so the cost end up at 2 hours of my time.  If it works,
we get more good changes for FreeBSD - great!

> > Does this mean that I'm the only person that belive this would be
> > useful?
> 
> Probably.  Ask yourself if a mentor program will increase the
> smallest harmonic wavelength of all harmonics that apply.  Define
> the harmonics any way you want, or look in the archives for my
> definitions, and use them.  Either way, I think a mentor program
> won't really help resolve the issues resulting in the limit function.

Then try to come up with your definitions of the problems in words of
less than two levels of indirection.

> Well, if you talk people into it here... you should establish a
> metric up front so you can measure positive or negative impact;
> otherwise everyone will be able to come to different conclusions
> about the programs success, and you will just have a lot of people
> arguing that whatever-there-mutually-contradictory-pet-point-is
> was "proven" by the experiment.
> 
> You could even do a fuzzy boundry, and time-bind it:
> 
> o	If desired result X occurs by N time units after the
> 	program is established, the program shall be deemed
> 	successful and shall not be discontinued.

If after four months the committers that have volunteered to be
mentors/contacts feel that the program have contributed more to
FreeBSD/will contribute more to FreeBSD than it has cost them, the
program shall be deemed successfull and shall not be discontinued.

Very simple :-)

Eivind.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 17:38:01 1998
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> 
> syscall 163 is the linux system call mremap which we have not implemented.
> 
> If anyone knows how to implement mremap  please let me know.

Heh.  I finally managed to get a copy of the Linux kernel source where 
I can look at it.  

mremap() is more or less what its name suggests; it allows you to 
modify an existing mapping. 

u_long
mremap(caddr_t addr, u_long old_len, u_long new_len, u_long flags)

There are basically two cases.

 - Shrink a mapping.  (new_len < old_len)  You can implement this as
   munmap(addr + new_len, old_len - new_len).

 - Grow a mapping, moving disallowed.   This requires changing map 
   details.  I *think* I can see, in principle, how to do this, but it
   would have to be done in the vm_mmap module rather than in the 
   linuxulator.

John, can you comment on this?

As a quick hack, you could try implementing the shrink case, and return 
ENOMEM for the other cases.  This *might* work, depending on the 
consumer.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 17:53:02 1998
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From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
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On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Mike Smith wrote:

> Speaking of phone lines; what would it cost you to get a phone line 
> connected to the roof?  One would expect that the building is prewired 
> for telephony...

In that case it wouldn't have to be in the same building.  I don't know
much about where to go about looking for weatherized computers, but I'll
keep this option in mind if the need ever crops up and it's worth
pursuing.

Thanks,


Mike Hancock

--
michaelh@cet.co.jp                                http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan              Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 17:57:59 1998
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> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Mike Smith wrote:
> 
> > Speaking of phone lines; what would it cost you to get a phone line 
> > connected to the roof?  One would expect that the building is prewired 
> > for telephony...
> 
> In that case it wouldn't have to be in the same building.  I don't know
> much about where to go about looking for weatherized computers, but I'll
> keep this option in mind if the need ever crops up and it's worth
> pursuing.

You mentioned using the weatherproof GPS module from TAPR; stick an ABS 
box with the power supply and a modem under the GPS and whack it on the 
roof.  No need for weatherproof computer hardware at all.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 17:59:03 1998
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: New typedefs in sys/types.h
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:56:07 +1100 (EDT)
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In some mail from Terry Lambert, sie said:
> 
> > > Technically, long should be 64 bits because sizeof(int) is <= sizeof(long);
> > > but just as technically, a 64 bit int meets the "register size test"
> > > and the "single bus cycle test" for "int-ness" (the same test that
> > > *should* have made compiler writers use 16 bit int's on 68000/68010
> > > chips).
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> > i believe i goes like...
> > 
> > long = 64 bits
> > int = 32 bits
> 
> This is, of course, just the bogosity I was trying to avoid.

Well, FWIW, apparently Digital Unix has int = 32 and long = 64.


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In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:36:26 EST."
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:15:20 -0800
Message-ID: <16444.884657720@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> 
> Anyone know of something similar to the above that works under FreeBSD?
> Or, hell, even under the Linux emulation? :(

We all wish.  Keep asking Pure/Atria software for that FreeBSD port,
folks, and maybe they'll eventually see a market and do one! ;)

					Jordan


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 18:28:09 1998
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To: Daniel Leeds <dleeds@dfacades.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 2.2.5-RELEASE land patch? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:34:54 PST."
             <199801122034.MAA11453@inertia.dfacades.com> 
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:27:43 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> about 80 or so megs free on the HD...what i want to know is if there
> was a kernel patch to protect against land.c?

Not just by itself, though if someone wants to make one for me I can
put it up at 2.2.5-RELEASE/updates along with the F00F fix and
others.

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 18:32:29 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:30:56 +0900 (JST)
From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Chrisy Luke <chrisy@flix.net>
cc: Tom <tom@sdf.com>, joelh@gnu.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
In-Reply-To: <19980112194053.29382@flix.net>
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Chrisy Luke wrote:

> He said static, not const. There's a difference. Static data can be
> modified, it's just by inference hidden from higher scopes.

Putting a const in front of a variable just makes the value read-only thru
that symbol.

Regards,


Mike Hancock
--
michaelh@cet.co.jp                                http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan              Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 18:56:58 1998
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	Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:54:22 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:54:22 -0500 (EST)
From: "Larry S. Lile" <lile@stdio.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Porting network code from NetBSD to FreeBSD?
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What are the major stumbling blocks in porting network code
from NetBSD to FreeBSD?  What are the main difference between
the two in respect to the networking subsystems.

Larry Lile
lile@stdio.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 18:57:26 1998
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To: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: [Fwd: mirror site ("INFOCOM" JSC Armenia)] 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:51:36 PST."
             <34BA8257.1CFBAE39@whistle.com> 
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:56:10 -0800
Message-ID: <16765.884660170@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> I've seen this twice now...
> can someone who knows give him an answer?

Already done.  In the future, the resource for mirror folks is

	http://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD

(yes, http://).

				Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 19:01:40 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:00:52 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Purify/Insure++ 
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:

> > 
> > Anyone know of something similar to the above that works under FreeBSD?
> > Or, hell, even under the Linux emulation? :(
> 
> We all wish.  Keep asking Pure/Atria software for that FreeBSD port,
> folks, and maybe they'll eventually see a market and do one! ;)

	I guess this begs the question as to what they would consider a large
enough market in order to do the port?  Same for pretty much any commercial
port, how many ppl would have to commit to purchasing a copy to make it
viable for them?

	The response I got from the Insure++/Parasoft ppl was:

"There is no one that supports free bsd. There is no automatic
 error detection tool available on that platform and I don't believe
 there ever will be. There is just no market for it and those that
 have it expect to pay close to nothing for it."

	The "perception" appears to be that because we haven't gone out and paid
for our operating system, we aren't willing to spend money on quality 
productivity software to compliment things...:(


Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 19:03:49 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Token Ring info
References: <9801121820.AA14438@gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com>
From: Dave Marquardt <marquard@zilker.net>
Date: 12 Jan 1998 21:02:59 -0600
In-Reply-To: "Marty Leisner"'s message of "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:20:02 PST"
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"Marty Leisner" <leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com> writes:
> My understanding is the IBM tokenring cards don't support
> promiscious mode, hence no tcpdump.

This was certainly true with the older ones for the RS/6000, though
newer adapters do indeed support promiscuous mode.  I suspect this is
also true for newer adapters for the PC.

-Dave (who works for IBM in his day job)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 12 19:32:34 1998
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	Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:34:27 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:34:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>
cc: Michael Knoll <knollm@lafcol.lafayette.edu>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Token Ring info
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, John Kelly wrote:
> If you have any EISA machines I've got some brand new SMC EISA token
> ring cards I'll sell you little more than the shipping cost.

By some small conincidense I do have an EISA machine.  (Currently being
used as a testbed for EISA DPT drivers).

I'm not sure how helpful SMC will be though.

/*
   Matthew N. Dodd		| A memory retaining a love you had for life	
   winter@jurai.net		| As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to
   http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53	
*/


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 14:37:17 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801131946.MAA14965@usr01.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
To: joelh@gnu.org
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:46:43 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, chrisy@flix.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801130506.XAA02903@detlev.UUCP> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Jan 12, 98 11:06:28 pm
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> > Ideally, all static data should be mapped copy-on-write.  I don't
> > think it's mapped, at this point; it probably needs a seperate ELF
> > section from the rest of data, to (1) force it to a page boundry
> > for it's mapping and (2) allow it to have seperate section flags to
> > indicate it should be treated as copy-on-write.
> 
> Is it possible with a.out?  (Yes, I know, I should learn more about
> the object file formats, does anybody have good pointers?)

Sean pointed out that he thinks the original poster wanted shared
memory that could be declared in a program.  What we used to call
a "Monitor Common Block" back in the old FORTRAN days.

If you want to make a distinction between static and static global,
I still say you need a different section ID for the thing.

No, a.out does not support multiple sections.  Yes, there is a weird
way to get this stuff in.  You can make the a.out image bigger than
the a.out header says it is, and put a header there.  That's what the
"splashkit" stuff does.

It's also what LISP and FORTH tend  to do, if they are written right,
in order to put "precompiled code" out there.  So there are possible
conflicts.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 16:27:01 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801131946.MAA14965@usr01.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
To: joelh@gnu.org
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:46:43 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, chrisy@flix.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801130506.XAA02903@detlev.UUCP> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Jan 12, 98 11:06:28 pm
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> > Ideally, all static data should be mapped copy-on-write.  I don't
> > think it's mapped, at this point; it probably needs a seperate ELF
> > section from the rest of data, to (1) force it to a page boundry
> > for it's mapping and (2) allow it to have seperate section flags to
> > indicate it should be treated as copy-on-write.
> 
> Is it possible with a.out?  (Yes, I know, I should learn more about
> the object file formats, does anybody have good pointers?)

Sean pointed out that he thinks the original poster wanted shared
memory that could be declared in a program.  What we used to call
a "Monitor Common Block" back in the old FORTRAN days.

If you want to make a distinction between static and static global,
I still say you need a different section ID for the thing.

No, a.out does not support multiple sections.  Yes, there is a weird
way to get this stuff in.  You can make the a.out image bigger than
the a.out header says it is, and put a header there.  That's what the
"splashkit" stuff does.

It's also what LISP and FORTH tend  to do, if they are written right,
in order to put "precompiled code" out there.  So there are possible
conflicts.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 16:43:30 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:10:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Jaye Mathisen  <mrcpu@cdsnet.net>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Scratch that YP question.
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I misunderstood the relationship between the ypbind domainname and the
ypserv figuring out which domain to serve.

My apologies.  (this is how it always is, 2 minutes after I send the
email, the answer msytically appears in shimmering green letters).


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 16:44:57 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: session id gets dropped
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:23:37 -0800
From: Tom Proett <proett@nas.nasa.gov>
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I am working with a batch system that uses the POSIX session to keep track
of which processes comprise a "job".  Under FreeBSD, I use kvm_getprocs()
to get information for all the proceses then use kvm_read() to read
the session structure for each process (pointed to by kp_eproc.e_sess).
It turns out that the s_leader field in the session structure becomes
NULL if the session leader exits.  Why is there no s_sid field in the
session structure to use as a session id even if the leader is gone?
Even better would be for this to be replicated in the kp_eproc struct
in kinfo_proc like e_ppid, e_pgid, etc.

If nobody thinks it's a bad idea, I will look into making the change.

Tom Proett

-- 
proett@nas.nasa.gov
NASA Ames Research Center



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 16:47:40 1998
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Message-Id: <199801130708.IAA09024@yedi.iaf.nl>
Subject: Re: Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card
To: pkorsten@xs4all.nl (Peter Korsten)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:08:46 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801122155.WAA13440@smtp2.xs4all.nl> from "Peter Korsten" at Jan 12, 98 10:49:56 pm
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As Peter Korsten wrote...
> 
> I have a laptop with a Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card. Does anybody
> know whether there are (attempts to) drivers for either FreeBSD, other BSD's
> or perhaps Linux? And perhaps some leads to port such a driver?

AFAIK Xircom is just as bad as Diamond used to be: they won't give you
programming info for their products, or maybe only under NDA.

W/
_     ______________________________________________________________________
 |   / o / /  _  Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko
 |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try'
---------------  Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix  --

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 16:57:04 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801132208.PAA27653@usr02.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: X based Free installation
To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:08:26 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, perhaps@yes.no, hackers@freebsd.org
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> > > There is only one organizational problem with FreeBSD that I see
> > > clearly today: Responsibility too often boils down to a group of
> > > people, instead of one person.  I think each submission/contact to
> > > FreeBSD should boil down to the responsibility of _one_ person.
> > 
> > I'm not going to get into this right now; my opinions are known,
> > and you can look them up in the archives.  8-).
> 
> As far as I've been able to tell (from reading your posts before, and
> looking them up again now): You want FreeBSD to have sexy tech, to
> expand the treshold for the number of participants, and to throw out
> the core team (with no clear indication of what is to replace it, if
> anything.)
>
> All in all, handwaving, with no actual ways to solve any of the
> problems, except that you claim to be able to supply some of the sexy
> tech if people just didn't stand in your way.
> 
> All of the above has been extracted from a myriad of complex
> metaphors, so please correct me if I've misunderstood something.

I told you I didn't want to get into this right now.  But if you are
going to call me publically, I'm going to respond publically.


I don't want to throw out the core team members.  Only the limiting
aspects of the core team construct.  If I were willing to "throw out
the baby with the bathwater", I'd have started "TerryBSD" long ago,
and not discouraged others from starting "JohnBSD" or "RichardBSD"
or "DennisBSD" or "YourNameHereBSD".  And I *have* _actively_
discouraged just such schisms.

The core team construct also has its good points.  There _is_ at
least one baby in there that you would be throwing out.

The limiting aspects of the construct include:

	o	Opportunity for kingdom building, and the
		corresponding opportunity for wall trampling

	o	Members being forced into increasingly demanding
		crises management roles

	o	Inability to set unpopular policy that would
		benefit the project because of consensus, not
		majority, requirements for a decision

	o	Inability to set concrete go/no-go deadlines,
		for many of the same reasons

	o	Inability to rapidly integrate new technology,
		and not just mine; BSD4.4 was released for over
		a year before integration.  SMP at the "big lock,
		bad scheduler" level was implemented by Jack
		Vogel almost two years before it made it onto a
		branch.

	o	Inability to do top level design outside areas
		of the core teams expertise, resulting in hacks
		on hacks.  Like NFS.

	o	Many more.

There is inherent conservatism in the social construct.  I argue
that conservatism is bad if one wants to promote revolution over
evolution.  We have seen where evolution ends: Microsoft kicks
your butt, while your best assets slowly turn into liabilities
(an NFS that doesn't work, networking where ISO, X.25, and other
code has been made unusable by small scope, a stacking FS
architecture that doesn't stack, critical tools no longer supported
by their vendors, etc.).

We have seen where the conservatism of USL (be the best by not
allowing anyone else to advance the state of the art), SCO,
Interactive, SunSoft, and other commercial UNIX vendors have
gotten them: the top of a tiny niche.  Like Apple, owner of
100% of 6% instead of 40% of 50%.

I have suggested voting forums.  I have suggested Lieutenants
(hard to implement a fuedal system like Linux without a Linus for
them to swear fealty to).  I have suggested process for removing
various aspects of crisis from need for management; the thread
about buildability of the -current tree is only the most recent
rehash of these.

And yes, I've used analogies to do this instead of of obscure
mathematics, which could provide "proof" to a much smaller
audience that would be persuaded by analogies.


As to "sexy tech" being hand waving...

	o	Who gathered up and resolved the collision in
		the patches to 386BSD 0.1 so it would even run
		on many of the now-core-members systems?

	o	Where do you think LKM's came from?

	o	Were do you think the idea of an execution class
		loader (ABI compatability) came from?

	o	Who wrote the SYSINIT code and rationalized
		init_main.c and the spawning of "kernel proceses"?

	o	Who saved Jack Vogel's SMP code when his SMP box
		was "repossesed"? (Too bad his SPARC port wasn't
		saved as well...).

And I've posted patches for many things that were not integrated
due to the complexity of the vetting process:

	o	NFS server side locking support (all but the rpc.lockd
		changes)

	o	NFS client locking segregation support (you have
		to be able to back a lock out locally to be able
		to accept a remote rejection of the request, and
		you have to apply it locally so that you can reassert
		after a server reboot).

	o	FS stacking cleanup

	o	FS namei changes for Unicode and other alternat
		namespace support (VFAT/VFAT32/NTFS ring any bells?)

	o	Etc.

Go back and look at the -current archives.  I've posted them all there.

Feel free to check out an old source tree, integrate them, and then
bring them up to date.  God knows I've had to do it often enough.
Then try to get them committed over the social inertia.


> Now, I'm trying to come up with one pragmatic approach to how we can
> increase the treshold for the number of participants without putting a
> lot of non-existing resources at the problem.  If the approach don't
> work, the most likely outcome is that no people register to actually
> write code - so the cost end up at 2 hours of my time.  If it works,
> we get more good changes for FreeBSD - great!

More power to you.  I kind of doubt that people buried in the throes
of crises management will be able to dig themselves out to the point
that they can participate in the process (see Jordan's comments; they
are salient, and to the point, though he doesn't give the underlying
problem as his rationale).

Feel free to prove me wrong through example.


> > > Does this mean that I'm the only person that belive this would be
> > > useful?
> > 
> > Probably.  Ask yourself if a mentor program will increase the
> > smallest harmonic wavelength of all harmonics that apply.  Define
> > the harmonics any way you want, or look in the archives for my
> > definitions, and use them.  Either way, I think a mentor program
> > won't really help resolve the issues resulting in the limit function.
> 
> Then try to come up with your definitions of the problems in words of
> less than two levels of indirection.

You can't have a meta-discussion without a "meta".

Here's a concrete example, since you demanded one.  Taking only the
crises management aspects into account, I don't think David Greenman,
Jordan Hubbard, or the many other people who are busy juggling cats,
will be able to resonably participate as mentors (note the distinction
between desire and fulfillment in that sentence).

I think you will end up with many more "Billy Batsons" than "Mentors"
if you pursue this.  Please pursue it anyway; it will be a useful
indicator of where the resource starvation is actually occurring.
With a metric proving it, maybe something can be done about it.


> If after four months the committers that have volunteered to be
> mentors/contacts feel that the program have contributed more to
> FreeBSD/will contribute more to FreeBSD than it has cost them, the
> program shall be deemed successfull and shall not be discontinued.
> 
> Very simple :-)

Fine.  Implement it.  Apply the metric.  Run the experiment so that
we can get an emperical answer instead of hand-waving over our
assumptions.  Prove that your hypothesis is right and that mine
is wrong.  I'll even let you limit your demographics to only the
people who believed it would work in the first place, as you have,
even though it will be a biased measure of positive vs. negative
impact of the program.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 16:57:57 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:33:51 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>, Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>,
        shimon@simon-shapiro.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 11:46:37PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> > There is only one organizational problem with FreeBSD that I see
> > clearly today: Responsibility too often boils down to a group of
> > people, instead of one person.  I think each submission/contact to
> > FreeBSD should boil down to the responsibility of _one_ person.
> 
> Yeah, but he's getting kinda busy. ;-)

_Each_ submission, not all of them.  *grin*

> > I previously posted to chat advocating a mentor program which
> > basically boiled down to this (people that wanted to contribute could
> > mail committers and get a single contact person, who then were
> > responsible for their submissions).  I got almost no response.
> 
> Not surprising.  No infrastructure to support such a program, really,
> especially when the mentor/mentoree relationship is so dynamic.  Who
> takes over the mentorees for a mentor who's leaving or otherwise going
> to be indisposed for some period of time?  How do they communicate?
> How does a mentoree choose a mentor, or vice-versa?  These are the
> details in which the devil lies, so to speak - the actual "idea"
> is trivial.  The implementation rather less so.

I was thinking of something as simple as:

* Mentor chooses mentoree by seeing mentorees e-mail to committers (or
  if the committers think this is a bad idea, to hackers, or to a
  mailing-list set up for the purpose) with: `Hi, I'd like a mentor.
  My interests and skills are roughly as follows, and I'm willing to
  work on...'
* Mentor and mentoree communicate by e-mail, phone, fax, IRC, and/or
  smoke signals.  (Basically, any method that works.)
* Everybody without a mentor fall back to the present system.  There's
  no reason why all of this should go away, is there?  If necessary, a
  mentoree can mail and request a new mentor.

The above is codified and put into a web page by yours truly, with a
suitable prominent link from Newsflash and/or the front page of
www.freebsd.org.  The web page will also contain a list of what
responsibilities the mentor aquires[1] and what is expected of a
mentoree (to spend his own time in preference to the mentors, and to
follow the basic set of guidelines for material submitted).

That's all there is to it, really - and I posted a draft of a web-page
with this in it to chat about two months ago.

[1] To reply to contacts from the mentoree in a reasonable time.  "I
don't have time now" and "I don't want to hear about you or anybody in
your family ever again" are also replies ;-) Usually, a committer
would also either reject or commit the mentorees code, and answer
questions that mentoree asks - as long as it isn't obvious that the
mentoree is using the mentor in preference to actually reading
documentation and trying him/herself.

> > Does this mean that I'm the only person that belive this would be
> > useful?
> 
> No, I think they're just waiting for you to implement this grand idea
> so that they can see you've grasped the subtle distinction between
> suggesting from the rear and leading from the front. :-)

I actually did what I thought was necessary to make it work quite some
time ago, posted it to -chat, and got no response.  I'm quite willing
to write and commit the necessary documents as long as people
(committers/core) think this is something that should be done.  (I'll
take silence as a 'yes', this time, so now is your chance to protest
;-)

Eivind.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 17:00:33 1998
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To: Greg Skafte <skafte@worldgate.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:06:28 +0000
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Subject: Re: 3com 3C509B Combo card
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> having a problem with my 3c509 cards.  It seems under conditions of high
Last time I checked the GENERIC conf file said the 509 driver was buggy.
I can remember having problems with it way back in 1.05.  I would suggest
moving to another card and would recommend the Intel EtherExpress 10/100B.

--------------------------------------------------
John A. Booth
University of North Texas
College of Arts & Sciences
Computer Support Specialist
GW address: CAS.PO7.JOHN
Internet:   john@unt.edu
Office:     940-565-4498

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 17:14:17 1998
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From: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@sunyit.edu>
To: "Chrisy Luke" <chrisy@flix.net>, "Tom" <tom@sdf.com>
Cc: <joelh@gnu.org>, <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:30:17 -0500
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just an idea, wouldn't there be a way to tell the compiler to mark a
segement of data as program TEXT? That way when you fork() there's only one
copy, the origional.  this would also help protect against it being
corrupted if the segment was marked read only... ie seg fault

sorry i have no clue on how to do this though....

-Alfred

----------
> From: Chrisy Luke <chrisy@flix.net>
> To: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
> Cc: joelh@gnu.org; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
> Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 2:40 PM
> 
> Tom wrote (on Jan 12):
> > 
> > On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Chrisy Luke wrote:
> > 
> > > Joel Ray Holveck wrote (on Jan 12):
> > > > Are static arrays shared across multiple invocations of a program?
> > > 
> > > Not intrinsicly. You'll have to either use SYS-V style shared
> > > memory (options SYSVSHM SYSVSEM SYSVMSG in a kernel config and
> > > shmget(2) etc) or use BSD style mapped memory (mmap(2)).
> > 
> >   Remember these are _static_ arrays, which mean they are directly
coded
> 
> He said static, not const. There's a difference. Static data can be
> modified, it's just by inference hidden from higher scopes.
> 
> Static memory is shared (it's setup by the C startup module) in so far
> as the initial state is the same. Any changes will not be seen across
> multiple invokations. For that, you need shared memory of some nature.
> 
> In this case, of course, the area should be marked volatile... :-)
> 
> Chris.
> -- 
> == chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org.
> == Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 18:44:15 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:39:30 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
cc: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Purify/Insure++
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Warner Losh wrote:

> In message <Pine.NEB.3.96.980112184027.259a-100000@thelab.hub.org> The Hermit Hacker writes:
> : 	I'm going to look at Purify next...
> 
> Hmmm.  Might wanna take up the torch for the Solaris x86 emulation...

	So then why not just change to Solaris x86?  If I wanted to run Solaris,
I would, but I don't...:(

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 18:50:37 1998
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cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), brian@Awfulhak.org,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: New typedefs in sys/types.h 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:56:07 +1100."
             <199801130158.RAA08540@hub.freebsd.org> 
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> > > i believe i goes like...
> > > 
> > > long = 64 bits
> > > int = 32 bits
> > 
> > This is, of course, just the bogosity I was trying to avoid.
> 
> Well, FWIW, apparently Digital Unix has int = 32 and long = 64.

As does OpenBSD/Alpha, and I believe NetBSD/Alpha.  Nobody's been 
brave/stupid enough to make sizeof(int) != 4 yet !

And of course, the `other' argument is that we need new format types 
for the printf/scanf family.  Otherwise we have to cast any type of a 
specific size (say int32_t) to a (long long) just to be sure :-|

-- 
Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
      <http://www.Awfulhak.org>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 18:51:06 1998
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Subject: WIDE hydrangea IPv6/ipsec stack for FreeBSD: current status
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From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:03:01 +0900
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	Hello, just fyi...

	WIDE hydrangea IPv6/ipsec stack is ready for you to play with.
	ftp://ftp.itojun.org/pub/ipv6/ has the weekly snapshot kernel diff
	and userland programs (mostly administration stuffs, such as
	ifconfig/netstat/whatever).

	Most basic IPv6 functions are ready.  We are implementing advanced api
	(as specified by draft-ietf-ipngwg-advanced-api-04.txt) and other
	uncommon IPv6 headers.

	For more information about the project, pls visit
	http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/
	http://www.wide.ad.jp/

	NOTE: your country may have restrictions on ftp'ing crypto software.
	Check before downloading the kit.  The kit includes DES/blowfish
	crypto algorithms and MD5/SHA1 hash functions.

Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh
itojun@itojun.org

PS: I'm now overloaded with my paperwork (thesis), so i may not be able
to check all messages to hackers@freebsd.  please reply to me directly
if needed.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 18:53:45 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:06:21 -0500
To: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
From: dennis <dennis@etinc.com>
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards
Cc: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>, Tom <tom@sdf.com>,
        Jamie Bowden <jamie@itribe.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 02:27 AM 1/13/98 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote:
>On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 08:17:15PM -0500, dennis wrote:
>> At 10:38 PM 1/12/98 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote:
>>> dennis <dennis@etinc.com> writes:
>>>> Just look in raw_usrreq(). the default case is a panic. 
>>> 
>>> Fixed in revision 1.12 as of April 27, 1997.
>>> 
>>> Do you have anything else?  (I don't think any of us want panic()s to
>>> occur for userland errors, though I think they often are the correct
>>> path for a kernel error.)
>> 
>> 2.2.5-RELEASE is shipped with v1.8 which is dated 3/11/96, so
>> something is amiss. If it takes a year for these fixes to make it
>> into a release it doesnt do anyone any good...
>
>Well, this was fixed as a part of a major rewrite of that part of the
>code.  The patch that fixes this is actually twice as large as the
>raw_usrreq file.  I also _think_ it links in with more modifications
>elsewhere, but I haven't looked to closely - it came in in a
>mega-commit, at least.
>
>At least be happy it is fixed in 3.0 :-)
>
>Do you have any other cases of panic() being used incorrectly?

yeah..go into each director do a "grep panic *.c" ...about half of them
are unnecessary.

Dennis

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 18:54:41 1998
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Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards
In-Reply-To: <86iurpz82n.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Jan 12, 98 10:38:40 pm"
To: perhaps@yes.no (Eivind Eklund)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:16:52 -0800 (PST)
Cc: dennis@etinc.com, tom@sdf.com, jamie@itribe.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Eivind Eklund writes:
> > >  This is raw socket stuff is interesting.  Example source please.  I
> > >don't believe this problem exists anymore.  I know that Julian fixed
> > >problems with routing sockets.  As a side point, routing sockets and raw
> > >sockets can only be accessed by root processes.
> > 
> > Just look in raw_usrreq(). the default case is a panic. 
> 
> Fixed in revision 1.12 as of April 27, 1997.
> 
> Do you have anything else?  (I don't think any of us want panic()s to
> occur for userland errors, though I think they often are the correct
> path for a kernel error.)

I don't know if this one still exists, but it used to be that
you could set the MTU of an interface to zero, and then cause
a kernel divide-by-zero panic by sending a packet out of it.

In the case I saw, it was using the TUNSIFINFO ioctl() on the
tunnel interface.

-Archie

___________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs   *   Whistle Communications, Inc.  *   http://www.whistle.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 18:55:44 1998
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To: tlambert@primenet.com
CC: tlambert@primenet.com, chrisy@flix.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199801131946.MAA14965@usr01.primenet.com> (message from Terry
	Lambert on Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:46:43 +0000 (GMT))
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org
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>>> Ideally, all static data should be mapped copy-on-write.  I don't
>>> think it's mapped, at this point; it probably needs a seperate ELF
>>> section from the rest of data, to (1) force it to a page boundry
>>> for it's mapping and (2) allow it to have seperate section flags to
>>> indicate it should be treated as copy-on-write.
>> Is it possible with a.out?  (Yes, I know, I should learn more about
>> the object file formats, does anybody have good pointers?)
> Sean pointed out that he thinks the original poster wanted shared
> memory that could be declared in a program.  What we used to call
> a "Monitor Common Block" back in the old FORTRAN days.

I *am* the original poster.  IIRC, a monitor common block is like an
mmap'd block.  I just wanted a large const array across several
simultanious invocations of a program to not take up lots of memory.
That's all.

> If you want to make a distinction between static and static global,
> I still say you need a different section ID for the thing.

It's now unclear what you mean by 'static' vs. 'static global'.

Thanks for your help,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 18:57:50 1998
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From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
Reply-To: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
cc: chrisy@flix.net, tom@sdf.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote:

> >> He said static, not const. There's a difference. Static data can be
> >> modified, it's just by inference hidden from higher scopes.
>
> > Putting a const in front of a variable just makes the value read-only thru
> > that symbol.
> 
> Is it not an error to change the value of a const variable through
> another symbol?
> 
>   const int foo = 69;
>   int*bar;
>   bar = &foo;  /* This frequently issues a compile/lint-time warning. */
>   *bar++;
> 
> (And when I say "an error", I am referring to the nasal demon type of
> error, not the compiler or runtime diagnostic type of error.)

You will get a run time error if the compiler says "Umm. a literal that's
referenced by something that hangs around, let's put it here in text".

Try this uninitialized version and then try again after initializing it.

const int foo;

main()
{
	int * bar;

	bar = (int *) &foo;
	*bar = 10;

	printf("foo = %d\n", foo);
}

This is perfectly legal code.  The difference in storage class also
depends on the right-hand side in this case. 

I'm not advocating that you do confusing things, I just want to point out
that const isn't what it appears to be.  i.e const doesn't make values
constant, it makes symbols read-only.

If you look at the signatures of common string handling functions you'll
notice that many of them declare arguments to be pointers to constant
types whereas the definition normally isn't.  In this case, its usually
the intent of the author to communicate that the function won't modify the
value.  It has nothing to do with the value being a constant.

Regards,


Mike Hancock
 
> Thanks,
> joelh
> 
> -- 
> Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
>    Fourth law of programming:
>    Anything that can go wrong wi
> sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped
> 

--
michaelh@cet.co.jp                                http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan              Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 19:00:50 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199801130434.FAA14829@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: delayed ACKs (fwd)
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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I found this on the tcp-impl list... can someone comment if the feature
is still there in -current (or it ever was) ?

	Cheers
	Luigi

Forwarded message:
> From owner-tcp-impl@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Mon Jan 12 23:15:03 1998
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:06:35 -0700 (MST)
> From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
> To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
> cc: tcp-impl@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com
> Subject: Re: delayed ACKs
> Sender: owner-tcp-impl@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com
> 
> On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Alan Cox wrote:
> 
> > > The case where the interaction between Nagle and delayed ACKs
> > > becomes a problem is when the receiver can't do anything until
> > > it gets the data that hasn't been sent yet, defered by the Nagle
> > > algorithm.  The Nagle code is waiting for the ACK, and there is
> > > no return data on which to piggy-back the delayed ACK, so you
> > > wait for the delayed ACK timer to go off.
> > 
> > However 4.4 BSD explicitly checks and does not delay an ack for a 
> > smaller than MTU sized frame. So this appears less of a problem anyway
> > if Im reading my copy of Stevens right
> 
> I don't know exactly what you are looking at, but unless I am missing
> something, it doesn't behave that way for me...
> 
> In fact, just the other day, I ran into a cute problem doing some simple
> web server benchmarking.  I was getting 5 requests/sec.  That number alone
> made me suspicious; 200ms*5 = 1s.
> 
> What was happening is a BSD bug (cf. TCP/IP Ill vol3, section 14.11) was
> causing the client (FreeBSD 2.2) to put a write() of between.. erm...  101
> and 208 bytes into two mbufs instead of a mbuf cluster.  This means it was
> sent in two packets.  Slow start wasn't the issue since I was using
> persistent connections, but Nagle on the client combined with delayed ack
> from the server was causing the client to delay sending the second packet
> in the request until the ack arrived for the first packet, 200ms later. 
> Hence almost exactly 5 requests/sec. 
> 
> The server was also FreeBSD 2.2; unless something has changed from 4.4BSD
> there, it does delay acks for frames smaller than the MTU. 
> 
> I guess I can be thankful that most HTTP requests are more bloated than
> 208 bytes or the client could disable Nagle to work around it.  Slow-start
> still could pose a problem though.

-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 19:12:30 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:04:45 -0500
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From: dennis <dennis@etinc.com>
Subject: jdk - does it work in 2.2.5R?
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javac is complaining about "libXt.so.6.0". What dependencies are
there for running the jdk on 2.2.5R, and what are the limitations?
the install docs are pretty bad.

Dennis

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 19:13:35 1998
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I noticed that Netscape is releasing netscape linked statically and
linked dynamically. Does anyone know how is Netscape getting away 
with that? Mostly, interested to see if there is some way for
us to do the same in particular with java.

	Tnks,
	Amancio



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 19:17:07 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: Stephen Hocking <shocking@mailbox.uq.edu.au>, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Quake page 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:56:31 +1030."
             <199801130126.LAA04334@word.smith.net.au> 
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From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Still no joy over here with Quake ][ :(
These are the parameters  that Quake ][ is calling mremap with:
mremap error = 0 --  1 0 2 0 3 0 4 0 

All args are 0....

For this weird case, I am not even sure what to return. On a related
vein , I booted linux and noticed that Quake ][ does not call
mremap which probably means that something else is wrong with the linux
emulation layer.


	Amancio


> > 
> > syscall 163 is the linux system call mremap which we have not implemented.
> > 
> > If anyone knows how to implement mremap  please let me know.
> 
> Heh.  I finally managed to get a copy of the Linux kernel source where 
> I can look at it.  
> 
> mremap() is more or less what its name suggests; it allows you to 
> modify an existing mapping. 
> 
> u_long
> mremap(caddr_t addr, u_long old_len, u_long new_len, u_long flags)
> 
> There are basically two cases.
> 
>  - Shrink a mapping.  (new_len < old_len)  You can implement this as
>    munmap(addr + new_len, old_len - new_len).
> 
>  - Grow a mapping, moving disallowed.   This requires changing map 
>    details.  I *think* I can see, in principle, how to do this, but it
>    would have to be done in the vm_mmap module rather than in the 
>    linuxulator.
> 
> John, can you comment on this?
> 
> As a quick hack, you could try implementing the shrink case, and return 
> ENOMEM for the other cases.  This *might* work, depending on the 
> consumer.
> 
> -- 
> \\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
> \\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
> \\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
> \\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 
> 
> 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 19:49:01 1998
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Subject: Re: FreeBSD Quake page 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:31:19 -0800."
             <199801140231.SAA01545@rah.star-gate.com> 
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> Still no joy over here with Quake ][ :(
> These are the parameters  that Quake ][ is calling mremap with:
> mremap error = 0 --  1 0 2 0 3 0 4 0 
> 
> All args are 0....

Urrrrr.  Sounds like an untested error handler.

> For this weird case, I am not even sure what to return. On a related
> vein , I booted linux and noticed that Quake ][ does not call
> mremap which probably means that something else is wrong with the linux
> emulation layer.

*grumble*

Got a truss or linux_ktrace output of it anywhere?

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 20:27:44 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Network statistics
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
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Is there any way for me to get network throughput statistics, a la
sys/vmstat and sys/dkstat?

Thanks,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 20:28:40 1998
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CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199801130851.CAA00961@detlev.UUCP> (message from Joel Ray
	Holveck on Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:51:24 -0600 (CST))
Subject: Re: Network statistics
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
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> Is there any way for me to get network throughput statistics, a la
> sys/vmstat and sys/dkstat?

Sorry, sys/vmmeter even...

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 20:29:44 1998
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	(message from Michael Hancock on Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:30:56 +0900
	(JST))
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org
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>> He said static, not const. There's a difference. Static data can be
>> modified, it's just by inference hidden from higher scopes.
> Putting a const in front of a variable just makes the value read-only thru
> that symbol.

Is it not an error to change the value of a const variable through
another symbol?

  const int foo = 69;
  int*bar;
  bar = &foo;  /* This frequently issues a compile/lint-time warning. */
  *bar++;

(And when I say "an error", I am referring to the nasal demon type of
error, not the compiler or runtime diagnostic type of error.)

Thanks,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 20:31:27 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <19980112112455.48744@flix.net> (message from Chrisy Luke on Mon,
	12 Jan 1998 11:24:55 +0000)
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org
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>> Are static arrays shared across multiple invocations of a program?
> Not intrinsicly. You'll have to either use SYS-V style shared
> memory (options SYSVSHM SYSVSEM SYSVMSG in a kernel config and
> shmget(2) etc) or use BSD style mapped memory (mmap(2)).

Hmm... Perhaps I should have used the C term.  For what I meant by
'static array', mmap (et al) would be utterly wrong.  My fault.

Are arrays declared const shared across multiple invocations of a
program?

That is, if I have an array
  const int foo[8192] = {...};
then will each instance of the invocation separately allocate 16k for
an array that's never going to change, and exists as it is in the
executable?

Cheers,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 20:31:33 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199801121414.AAA00487@word.smith.net.au> (message from Mike
	Smith on Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:44:40 +1030)
Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems...
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
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>>> It's a very short step from there to a semi-graphical login (eg. login 
>>> dialog rather than login/password prompt.)  I could see people liking 
>>> that.
>> Good point, although the graphical login window is really best handled
>> by xdm, and I don't really see people wanting a graphical login window
>> being requested without a full graphics system (ie, X).
> I just thought it would look "pretty".

I agree, it would.  And I don't mind making things look pretty; I
don't mind aesthetics for aesthetics' sake.  But when I'm in a mood
for aesthetics, I can switch over to X, switch my window mangler to
Enlightenment, and use it.

>> Okay, let me get opinions:
>> * What do people want?  I see a couple of possibilities:
>> 1. A graphical idle screen that shows things like fractals or bitmaps
>> with rotating palettes,
> This is commonly called a "screensaver".  I would suggest that any 
> effort in this direction be focussed on providing an interface for 
> graphical screensavers.

Yeah, I kinda came to the same conclusion on my own.

>> 3. Something that shows just a login window
> Kinda makes it seem fairly pointless, doesn't it?  Given that you have 
> to deal with forking off login and all that, it stops being attractive 
> fairly quickly.

Well, I can handle forking off login and all that.

See, last night, after I decided to start doing this, I did.  I made a
copy of getty, renamed it to ggetty, and started making
modifications.  It's actually fairly simple to do a basic idle
routine.  Enclosed is a (proof-of-concept quick-hack
no-warranty-applies) patch I made to do just this, drawing random
lines on the screen.  I started to modify it to use munching squares,
and pondered the most efficient method of doing the palette rotations
for smoking clover, and so forth.  Then I realized that I was thinking
of things to do that are effectively screen savers.

>> * Is this really going to be the best way to go about it?
> No.  Reflection doesn't really indicate that.

Okay, let's back up.  Why did I first think this would be a good idea?

You wrote a splash screen on startup, something to hide the ugly
details of device probes other kernel stuff, and generally add the
graphical appearance which is more appealing to the unwashed masses.
<199801061303.XAA00382@word.smith.net.au> Does this splash screen
serve any other purpose?

Mika asked about making the splash screen stay on until somebody
logged in.  <199801111402.QAA02310@shadows.aeon.net> I lost the
original message, and the mailing list search (actually, all hub http
requests) seems to be down, so I don't quite remember why.  Mika?

I decided to actually make it happen.  This seemed like a really good
idea at the time.  <199801112147.PAA02503@detlev.UUCP>  

You said that people would like a graphical login dialog.
<199801120248.NAA01045@word.smith.net.au>  Were you talking about
something in xdm style, or what?

Okay, that seems to be the key messages of why this would be a good
idea.  In general, I think that when *I personally* in a mood to
interact with a computer graphically, I'll use X.  Does anybody else
have an opinion on this?

Also, in general, I agree that the pretty things going on while the
console is idle are best handled by screen savers.  Opinions?

Perhaps it would be best to have an vty ioctl that means 'engage
screensaver immediately, which getty can send
when it starts up, depending on a gettytab setting.  Alternately, we
could use an escape sequence instead, and set it up as the last
character sequence in gettytab's `lm' (login message) attribute.

Well, enough of that, I've gotten in the mood to write a graphical
*SOMETHING* now, so I'll probably be submitting a graphical
screensaver RSN.

Cheers,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 20:35:30 1998
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In-reply-to: <19980112194053.29382@flix.net> (message from Chrisy Luke on Mon,
	12 Jan 1998 19:40:53 +0000)
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org
References: <19980112112455.48744@flix.net> <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980112105953.9226C-100000@misery.sdf.com> <19980112194053.29382@flix.net>
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>>>> Are static arrays shared across multiple invocations of a program?
>>> Not intrinsicly. You'll have to either use SYS-V style shared
>>> memory (options SYSVSHM SYSVSEM SYSVMSG in a kernel config and
>>> shmget(2) etc) or use BSD style mapped memory (mmap(2)).
>> Remember these are _static_ arrays, which mean they are directly coded
> He said static, not const. There's a difference. Static data can be
> modified, it's just by inference hidden from higher scopes.

My apologies, I was meaning 'static' as opposed to 'dynamic'.  I
should have said 'const'.

> Static memory is shared (it's setup by the C startup module) in so
> far as the initial state is the same. Any changes will not be seen
> across multiple invokations. For that, you need shared memory of
> some nature.

So it's originally mapped in as shared, but copy-on-write, then?  Does
this only apply to vars declared static, or does it also apply to
global vars not declared static?

> In this case, of course, the area should be marked volatile... :-)

Some might argue that several of my entire programs should be marked
volatile... :-)

Thanks,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 21:15:14 1998
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        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3com 3C509B Combo card 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:06:28 GMT."
             <199801131506.JAA26146@www.cas.unt.edu> 
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:14:40 -0700
From: Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org>
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Okay, I'm stumped. I've run 509B's (and plain old 509's) since they
came out, in a lot of busy production critical servers, running FreeBSD
and just about anything else for x86 that networked. I've found them to
be nothing but rock solid reliable.

Do we know who originated the "buggy" comment in the kernel config?
Would someone like to volunteer to track back through CVS and see
who originated it? Would the originator care to explain the comment?

Personally, I think the whole "buggy" statement is bogus, and has been
for quite some time. Lacking evidence to the contrary the comment should
be squelched before this business of buggy 509's reaches the status
of urban legend :-)

--lyndon (getting 800+KB/s on his 509's at home, at work at ...)


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 21:34:55 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:34:23 -0700
From: Greg Skafte <skafte@worldgate.com>
To: Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org>
Cc: john@mailhost.cas.unt.edu, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3com 3C509B Combo card
References: <199801131506.JAA26146@www.cas.unt.edu> <199801140514.WAA11772@ve7tcp.ampr.org>
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The machine in question has been running a 3c509B combo card
since 2.0.5 with little incendent until early December under RELENG_2_2 .
I haven't looked into the CVS trees yet to see what has changed  yet.
I see that the time stamp on if_ep.c is Dec 1 and if_epflags.h is Jan 9 ..... 
but nothing further ....

Quoting Lyndon Nerenberg (lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org)
On Subject: Re: 3com 3C509B Combo card
Date: Tue, Jan 13, 1998 at 10:14:40PM -0700

> Okay, I'm stumped. I've run 509B's (and plain old 509's) since they
> came out, in a lot of busy production critical servers, running FreeBSD
> and just about anything else for x86 that networked. I've found them to
> be nothing but rock solid reliable.
> 
> Do we know who originated the "buggy" comment in the kernel config?
> Would someone like to volunteer to track back through CVS and see
> who originated it? Would the originator care to explain the comment?
> 
> Personally, I think the whole "buggy" statement is bogus, and has been
> for quite some time. Lacking evidence to the contrary the comment should
> be squelched before this business of buggy 509's reaches the status
> of urban legend :-)
> 
> --lyndon (getting 800+KB/s on his 509's at home, at work at ...)

-- 
Email: skafte@worldgate.com	  Voice: +403 413 1910	  Fax: +403 421 4929
   #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 
--								          --
When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole
lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest
thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex.       (Janet Morris)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 21:39:57 1998
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From: cgull+usenet-884755990@smoke.marlboro.vt.us (john hood)
To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Purify/Insure++
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.95.980112123547.19435H-100000@hub.org>
References: <Pine.NEB.3.95.980112123547.19435H-100000@hub.org>
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The Hermit Hacker writes:
 > Anyone know of something similar to the above that works under FreeBSD?
 > Or, hell, even under the Linux emulation? :(

Checker gcc.

It builds easily under FreeBSD, and it's been busy finding trn bugs
for me for the last month. :)

>From what I understand of Purify, Checker is about as capable at
detecting problems, though it uses a rather different method.

Check the Linux archives.

  --jh

-- 
Mr. Belliveau said, "the difference was the wise,       John Hood,     cgull
intelligent look on the face of the cow."  He was      	                   @
*so* right.  --Ofer Inbar                               smoke.marlboro.vt.us

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 22:24:27 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: Stephen Hocking <shocking@mailbox.uq.edu.au>, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Quake page 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:11:31 +1030."
             <199801140341.OAA00815@word.smith.net.au> 
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:23:32 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Sure think the ktrace is at:

ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/quake.ktrace.gz

quake ][ issues a Shutdown message then aborts so at least we know 
where in the trace it decides to abort.

	Cheers,
	Amancio



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 22:32:35 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
cc: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Subject: Re: Purify/Insure++ 
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:32:08 -0800
Message-ID: <1818.884759528@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> 	I guess this begs the question as to what they would consider a large
> enough market in order to do the port?  Same for pretty much any commercial
> port, how many ppl would have to commit to purchasing a copy to make it
> viable for them?

I asked them this question myself, and they said:

	1. If they can get $1M up-front to do the port, the'll do it
	   outright (start saving those box-tops now, kids!) and not
	   worry about sales.

	2. If they're not paid $1M up-front, they'd settle for moving
	   1500 units a year at around $1K a copy.  That's about 150
	   copies a month and probably still well out of reach for
	   something in this price range (and not all sales months are
	   created equal, which means you'd have to do far better than
	   this on certain months).

Add to this the fact that Purify has changed hands at least 3 times in
the last 24 months and may well change hands another 3 times before
they're done and you have a very very unstable sales and support
picture.

In other words, "Forget it."  If we want Insure or Purify in the free
software world, we're going to have to do our own versions and hope
that there aren't too many software patents on the process.

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 22:54:17 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:54:09 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Message-Id: <199801140654.WAA04600@time.cdrom.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Testing..
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Sorry for the test message, folks, but we've had some hardware problems
with our mail server and are just now recovering it.

My mail to test@freebsd.org also went nowhere, it seems, so now I have to try
it with a list I'm on. :(

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 23:55:17 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:54:31 +0900 (JST)
From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: FreeBSD Hackers <Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
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[Re-sent]

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote:

> >> He said static, not const. There's a difference. Static data can be
> >> modified, it's just by inference hidden from higher scopes.
>
> > Putting a const in front of a variable just makes the value read-only thru
> > that symbol.
> 
> Is it not an error to change the value of a const variable through
> another symbol?
> 
>   const int foo = 69;
>   int*bar;
>   bar = &foo;  /* This frequently issues a compile/lint-time warning. */
>   *bar++;
> 
> (And when I say "an error", I am referring to the nasal demon type of
> error, not the compiler or runtime diagnostic type of error.)

You will get a run time error if the compiler says "Umm. a literal that's
referenced by something that hangs around, let's put it here in text".

Try this uninitialized version and then try again after initializing it.

const int foo;

main()
{
	int * bar;

	bar = (int *) &foo;
	*bar = 10;

	printf("foo = %d\n", foo);
}

This is perfectly legal code.  The difference in storage class also
depends on the right-hand side in this case. 

I'm not advocating that you do confusing things, I just want to point out
that const isn't what it appears to be.  i.e const doesn't make values
constant, it makes symbols read-only.

If you look at the signatures of common string handling functions you'll
notice that many of them declare arguments to be pointers to const types
whereas the definition normally isn't.  In this case, its usually the
intent of the author to communicate that the function won't modify the
value.  It has nothing to do with the value being a constant. 

Regards,


Mike Hancock
 
> Thanks,
> joelh
> 
> -- 
> Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
>    Fourth law of programming:
>    Anything that can go wrong wi
> sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped
> 

--
michaelh@cet.co.jp                                http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan              Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 13 23:58:49 1998
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To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Subject: Re: Purify/Insure++ 
Cc: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:42:21 -0400."
		<Pine.NEB.3.96.980112184027.259a-100000@thelab.hub.org> 
References: <Pine.NEB.3.96.980112184027.259a-100000@thelab.hub.org>  
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:49:58 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <Pine.NEB.3.96.980112184027.259a-100000@thelab.hub.org> The Hermit Hacker writes:
: 	I'm going to look at Purify next...

Hmmm.  Might wanna take up the torch for the Solaris x86 emulation...

Warner

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 00:03:12 1998
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To: hackers
Subject: testing
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yes an orrible test

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 03:22:46 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: ATX motherboard shutdown?
Reply-to: marc@bowtie.nl
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:24:18 +0100
From: Marc van Kempen <marc@bowtie.nl>
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Hi,

Is it possible to powerdown an ATX computer when doing a halt
from FreeBSD? Also is it possible to automatically shutdown
FreeBSD when I switch it off with the off-switch at the front?

Linux seems to able to do this (the first part at least) and uses 
the APM interface for it, while the APM power off seems to implemented 
in FreeBSD too, it misses a reference to it in kern_shutdown.c, or *I*'m
missing it.

Could someone clarify this please?

Regards,
Marc.

PS. Only the apm.c in -current seems to have support for the 
power off function, is there any reason why this wouldn't 
work in -stable?

----------------------------------------------------
Marc van Kempen                 BowTie Technology     
Email: marc@bowtie.nl            WWW & Databases
tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65         
fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86         http://www.bowtie.nl
----------------------------------------------------




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 04:02:29 1998
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To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Any good comparison of Linux/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD/Hurd?
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:15:23 +0100
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>From <34BC2FA5.E334B191@star-gate.com>:

> > this one mystifies me, since the *BSD world seems to inherit the
> > "SCSI is God's bus" attitude of the old-fashioned academic world.
> > let me just say that on the dozens of machines I run, most are IDE,
> > rock solid and deliver optimal performance from their disks.
> > and it's been this way for years.
> 
>   Please don't be mystified, on my FreeBSD 3.0 :
> {root} dd if=/dev/wd2s1 of=/dev/null count=100 bs=8192
> 100+0 records in
> 100+0 records out
> 819200 bytes transferred in 1.081979 secs (757131 bytes/sec)
> {root} dd if=/dev/wd2s1 of=/dev/null count=100 bs=16384
> 100+0 records in
> 100+0 records out
> 1638400 bytes transferred in 1.506444 secs (1087594 bytes/sec)
> {root}
> 
> The drive is of course an IDE.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here, but I took this to email
instead of News - I don't have much hope for a discussion that is cross-
posted this widely (comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,
comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.os.linux.misc).

I have a P-166 with 3.0-971225-SNAP and two IBM 4 GB disks: DCAS-34330W
(Wide SCSI), and DHEA-34330 (EIDE). As far as I know, this is really the
same disk, and it's nice and fast whether SCSI or EIDE.

Reading from the raw device, I get ("records in/out" removed):

# dd if=/dev/rwd0 of=/dev/null count=5000 bs=32768
163840000 bytes transferred in 16.041941 secs (10213228 bytes/sec)

# dd if=/dev/rsd0 of=/dev/null count=5000 bs=32768
163840000 bytes transferred in 20.113770 secs (8145663 bytes/sec)

Reading the same size file with block size 8k instead gives essentially
the same result. Pretty good.

(Looking at the idle time with vmstat seems to indicate that the EIDE
drive is *not* using bus mastering - I thought

ide_pci0: <Intel PIIX3 Bus-master IDE controller> rev 0x00 on pci0.7.1

indicated that bus mastering *would* be used, but evidently not so.)

Reading through the file system isn't nearly as good:

# dd if=/dev/wd0s3 of=/dev/null count=5000 bs=32768
163840000 bytes transferred in 50.196384 secs (3263980 bytes/sec)

# dd if=/dev/sd0s3 of=/dev/null count=5000 bs=32768
163840000 bytes transferred in 71.835646 secs (2280762 bytes/sec)

and with 8k block size, I get:

# dd if=/dev/wd0s3 of=/dev/null count=20000 bs=8192
163840000 bytes transferred in 175.664112 secs (932689 bytes/sec)

# dd if=/dev/sd0s3 of=/dev/null count=20000 bs=8192
163840000 bytes transferred in 72.153464 secs (2270716 bytes/sec)

So when reading through the file system the performance depends *much*
more on block size for the EIDE drive - I don't know why. But given
the right block size, *this* particular EIDE disk seems to be always
somewhat faster than the corresponding SCSI disk.

Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 05:30:47 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:30:14 -0500 (EST)
From: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: More make world problems...
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> cd /usr/src/usr.bin/minigzip/
> make
< "Makefile", line 1: Need an operator
< make: fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue

Thank you


--
David Cross
UNIX Systems Administrator
GE Corporate R&D


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 06:56:20 1998
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At 12:42 AM 1/14/98 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote:
>On Tue, Jan 13, 1998 at 06:36:46PM -0500, dennis wrote:
>> At 12:13 AM 1/14/98 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote:
>> >On Tue, Jan 13, 1998 at 06:06:21PM -0500, dennis wrote:
>> >> At 02:27 AM 1/13/98 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote:
>> >> >Do you have any other cases of panic() being used incorrectly?
>> >> 
>> >> yeah..go into each director do a "grep panic *.c" ...about half of them
>> >> are unnecessary.
>> >
>> >As far as I've been able to tell (both from working with the kernel
>> >previously and by checking now) this is just plain wrong.  I'm willing
>> >to fix it if you have examples, but I've not yet found any that are
>> >clearly wrong.
>> 
>> Depends on your perspective. Should  you panic the system if you fail
>> to allocate a buffer for a bpf filter?
>
>During boot: Yes, I think this might be reasonable.  You can assume
>that if you can't allocate memory during boot, your system can't run
>more-or-less at all.  If it can run normally, then there is a bug
>somewhere during the boot sequence - and kernel bugs _should_ cause
>panics.
>
>> Should ANYTHING having to do with bpf filters crash a system?
>
>Yes, kernel bugs in relation to bpf should cause panics.
>
>> If someone tries to send an icmp with an invalid type, should it
>> crash the system?
>
>No, absolutely not.  Does it?  (With -current, not 2.2.x).


A clear and growing problem with the FreeBSD camp is that no one
cares about the RELEASES, which is what most of the real world is
using. telling me that a bug was fixed in 3.0 in March and still hasnt 
made it into a release explains why the releases over the past year
have been rather disappointing with much of the FreeBSD talent's
focus elsewhere. The de driver is another illustration of that.

>
>> 90% of the panics could print a warning and return without panicing
>> the system. I'll bet that the first thing Cisco did when they hacked
>> unix into IOS is get rid of the unnecessary crashes.
>
>Possibly.  I think panic() is the right action when you discover a bug
>in the kernel that you can't just ignore and can't recover from;
>otherwise, getting it fixed is usually a pain.
>
>> Most of the stuff doesnt happen very often if ever, but its still wrong.
>
>It is wrong if userland can make a kernel panic, I agree.  If kernel
>bugs can make the kernel panic, that is OK by me.

If an add-on driver makes a bad call a warning should be printed and the 
operation refused. Its time that FreeBSD recognize that 3rd party
software exists (especially with loadable modules) and that errors
aren't confined to core team's test beds.

Dennis


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Subject: umapfs
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Hello,

what would be needed to be done to get UMAPFS working ?

I tried it on 2.2.2 and it crashes my system regularly when
I try to access a file on the umap'ed FS (in or after umap_node_find).
(I would like to umap an nfs-mounted FS, but I also tested on UFS.)

I installed the fix for nullfs which was around a few weeks ago to
properly initialize the struct with a call to umapfs_statfs.
No visible change.

Comments ?
(Do I have to wait until 4.0-CURRENT runs on the Merced? :-)

Robert

-- 
Dr. Robert Eckardt                                                 (
    Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Inst.f.Theor.Physik, NB6/169          )
    Universitaetsstrasse 150,   D-44780 Bochum,    Germany     ----X---8----
    Telefon: +49 234 700-3709,   Telefax: +49 234 7094-574             8
    E-Mail:  RobertE@MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de                    --------8----
    URL:  http://WWW.MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de/~roberte
>>> A magician never reveals his secret:  the unbelievable trick becomes <<<
>>>                             simple and obvious once it is explained. <<<

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 07:55:43 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:54:55 -0600
From: Dan Nelson <dnelson@emsphone.com>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
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In the last episode (Jan 13), Jordan K. Hubbard said:
> > 	I guess this begs the question as to what they would consider a
> > large enough market in order to do the port?  Same for pretty much
> > any commercial port, how many ppl would have to commit to
> > purchasing a copy to make it viable for them?
> 
> In other words, "Forget it."  If we want Insure or Purify in the free
> software world, we're going to have to do our own versions and hope
> that there aren't too many software patents on the process.

Not sure if this is in the same area of "debugging" tools or in a
different niche, but I've had good results with the bounds-checking gcc
patch to 2.7.2.  It slows down your program quite a bit when enabled,
but does range and type checking on every variable, pointer, and array
in your code.   Makes finding buffer-overflow bugs a no-brainer.

The code is for 2.7.2, but should build on 2.7.2.1 with minimal
patching.  Wonder if the egcc people are thinking about a
bounds-checking patch; would be a nice addition.

	-Dan Nelson
	dnelson@emsphone.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 08:32:06 1998
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Doesn't then dynamic binary require Motif? That _had_ been the difference 
between the two several versions ago.

Kevin

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote:

> 
> 
> I noticed that Netscape is releasing netscape linked statically and
> linked dynamically. Does anyone know how is Netscape getting away 
> with that? Mostly, interested to see if there is some way for
> us to do the same in particular with java.
> 
> 	Tnks,
> 	Amancio
> 
> 
> 

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 09:00:53 1998
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On Wed, Jan 14, 1998 at 11:15:23AM +0100, sthaug@nethelp.no wrote:
> (Looking at the idle time with vmstat seems to indicate that the EIDE
> drive is *not* using bus mastering - I thought
> 
> ide_pci0: <Intel PIIX3 Bus-master IDE controller> rev 0x00 on pci0.7.1
> 
> indicated that bus mastering *would* be used, but evidently not so.)


What are your flags on wdc0 and wdc1? Bit 0x2000 has to be set for each
drive to enable DMA support on that drive. You flags should be something
like 0xa0ffa0ff (which enables all the performance features, including DMA).


-- 
Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA  (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower)  
A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did 
$++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac/95/96 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | hcremean (at) vt.edu
FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org)
My home page: http://wakky.dyn.ml.org/~lee | finger me for geek code

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 09:23:24 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:22:15 -0500
From: Brian Cully <shmit@erols.com>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>,
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Subject: Re: FreeBSD Quake page
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On %M %N, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> 
> Sure think the ktrace is at:
> 
> ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/quake.ktrace.gz
> 
> quake ][ issues a Shutdown message then aborts so at least we know 
> where in the trace it decides to abort.

If you check the NetBSD-current archives for the last month you'll find
a message that pertains to this. I believe the problem was that the
Linux memremap() function is not implemented.

-- 
Brian Cully						<shmit@erols.com>
``And when one of our comrades was taken prisoner, blindfolded, hung
  upside-down, shot, and burned, we thought to ourselves, `These are the
  best experiences of our lives''' -Pathology (Joe Frank, Somewhere Out There)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 11:41:51 1998
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Subject: Re: Any good comparison of Linux/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD/Hurd?
In-Reply-To: <6373.884772923@verdi.nethelp.no> from "sthaug@nethelp.no" at "Jan 14, 98 11:15:23 am"
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[snip]
> I have a P-166 with 3.0-971225-SNAP and two IBM 4 GB disks: DCAS-34330W
> (Wide SCSI), and DHEA-34330 (EIDE). As far as I know, this is really the
> same disk, and it's nice and fast whether SCSI or EIDE.
[snip]
> # dd if=/dev/wd0s3 of=/dev/null count=5000 bs=32768
> 163840000 bytes transferred in 50.196384 secs (3263980 bytes/sec)
> 
> # dd if=/dev/sd0s3 of=/dev/null count=5000 bs=32768
> 163840000 bytes transferred in 71.835646 secs (2280762 bytes/sec)
> 
> and with 8k block size, I get:
> 
> # dd if=/dev/wd0s3 of=/dev/null count=20000 bs=8192
> 163840000 bytes transferred in 175.664112 secs (932689 bytes/sec)
> 
> # dd if=/dev/sd0s3 of=/dev/null count=20000 bs=8192
> 163840000 bytes transferred in 72.153464 secs (2270716 bytes/sec)
> 
> So when reading through the file system the performance depends *much*
> more on block size for the EIDE drive - I don't know why. But given
> the right block size, *this* particular EIDE disk seems to be always
> somewhat faster than the corresponding SCSI disk.

	please compare EIDE to SCSI when you have more than one dd
	running as well.  two dd's to the same disk, tow dd's ot different
	disks on hte same controller.

	SCSI's ability to disconnect may prove tonmake a significant difference.
jmb

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 12:00:16 1998
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> What are your flags on wdc0 and wdc1? Bit 0x2000 has to be set for each
> drive to enable DMA support on that drive. You flags should be something
> like 0xa0ffa0ff (which enables all the performance features, including DMA).

Thanks, that made a world of difference. I'm now getting basically the
same results from the raw device for the EIDE disk:

# dd if=/dev/rwd0 of=/dev/null count=5000 bs=32768
5000+0 records in
5000+0 records out
163840000 bytes transferred in 16.030623 secs (10220439 bytes/sec)

but vmstat now gives me 96% idle time instead of 57% or so. Nice!

Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 12:06:07 1998
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Subject: Re: Any good comparison of Linux/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD/Hurd?
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References: <19980114115956.58321@wakky.dyn.ml.org>
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> What are your flags on wdc0 and wdc1? Bit 0x2000 has to be set for each
> drive to enable DMA support on that drive. You flags should be something
> like 0xa0ffa0ff (which enables all the performance features, including DMA).

Thanks, that made a world of difference. I'm now getting basically the
same results from the raw device for the EIDE disk:

# dd if=/dev/rwd0 of=/dev/null count=5000 bs=32768
5000+0 records in
5000+0 records out
163840000 bytes transferred in 16.030623 secs (10220439 bytes/sec)

but vmstat now gives me 96% idle time instead of 57% or so. Nice!

Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 12:08:28 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801142007.NAA07464@usr06.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
To: joelh@gnu.org
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:07:31 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, chrisy@flix.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801140203.UAA03069@detlev.UUCP> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Jan 13, 98 08:03:37 pm
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> I *am* the original poster.  IIRC, a monitor common block is like an
> mmap'd block.  I just wanted a large const array across several
> simultanious invocations of a program to not take up lots of memory.
> That's all.

OK.  Sean was wrong and I was wrong.

What you want is already in there.  All original vnode data is
shared between all processes.  This includes static data.  The
program txt (executable code) is read-only.  Data is read/write,
but is marked copy-on-write.  You do not take memory space for
additional instances of the program, *unless* you write the
data.  If you do, it's copied.  A page at a time.  Uninitialized
and allocated data are BSS data.  This is allocated per process.

> > If you want to make a distinction between static and static global,
> > I still say you need a different section ID for the thing.
> 
> It's now unclear what you mean by 'static' vs. 'static global'.

All global data is static.  Not all static data is global.  Global
data with a "static" storage class is scoped locally to the .o file
in shich it was declared.  It's a scoping thing for:

int		i = 5;		/* statically initialized global data*/

static int	j = 4;		/* locally scoped statically inialized*/
				/* static global data*/

foo()
{
	static int	k = 4;	/* statically initialized static local data*/
	...
}

The distinction is important because if you agregate something, like
an array of structs, you can initialize it in any of these three types
of static, but not in an auto variable (you'll get the error "no auto
agregate initialization").

Anyway, "static global" data declared in more than one file is not
shared between declaration instances.  This tends to be a problem
mostly for C++ template classes with static components, where the
classes are instanced in more than one place.  This is because the
old tools that FreeBSD has fail to place template instances for a given
type in a seperate section so the linker can choose to have only one
copy lying around.

I hope this answers all your questions, and the questions that the initial
answers might have raised, so we can put this to rest.  8-).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 12:09:31 1998
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Subject: Re: Network statistics
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote:

> 
> > Is there any way for me to get network throughput statistics, a la
> > sys/vmstat and sys/dkstat?
> 
> Sorry, sys/vmmeter even...
> 

try trafshow in ports/packages/networking; IMHO one of the enatest ones.

Dw.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 12:10:54 1998
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To: john@mailhost.cas.unt.edu
Cc: Greg Skafte <skafte@worldgate.com>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3com 3C509B Combo card
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 john@mailhost.cas.unt.edu wrote:

> > having a problem with my 3c509 cards.  It seems under conditions of high

> Last time I checked the GENERIC conf file said the 509 driver was buggy.
> I can remember having problems with it way back in 1.05.  I would suggest
> moving to another card and would recommend the Intel EtherExpress 10/100B.

Hmm, we run production with it on two large boxes in holland, and some
smaller ones in the UK, no trouble whatsoever, in both modes.

Dw.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 12:11:37 1998
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To: shmit@erols.com
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>,
        Stephen Hocking <shocking@mailbox.uq.edu.au>, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Quake page 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:22:15 EST."
             <19980114122215.05115@erols.com> 
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Hi,

Are you sure that the NetBSD folks have Quake ][ running ?

The archive seems to suggest that having linux_mremap return EINVAL 
is enough to make Quake ][ however nowhere in the archive is
there is mention that anyone has Quake ][ running.

I downloaded NetBSD's linux_misc.c and for linux_mremap it returns
ENOMEM . Well, I try both EINVAL and ENOMEM and still no joy over here.

Both FreeBSD and NetBSD don't really implement mremap in our current
emulation layers we just return an error code.

	Regards,
	Amancio


> On %M %N, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > 
> > Sure think the ktrace is at:
> > 
> > ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/quake.ktrace.gz
> > 
> > quake ][ issues a Shutdown message then aborts so at least we know 
> > where in the trace it decides to abort.
> 
> If you check the NetBSD-current archives for the last month you'll find
> a message that pertains to this. I believe the problem was that the
> Linux memremap() function is not implemented.
> 
> -- 
> Brian Cully						<shmit@erols.com>
> ``And when one of our comrades was taken prisoner, blindfolded, hung
>   upside-down, shot, and burned, we thought to ourselves, `These are the
>   best experiences of our lives''' -Pathology (Joe Frank, Somewhere Out There)



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 12:12:54 1998
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        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3com 3C509B Combo card
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 john@mailhost.cas.unt.edu wrote:

> > having a problem with my 3c509 cards.  It seems under conditions of high

> Last time I checked the GENERIC conf file said the 509 driver was buggy.
> I can remember having problems with it way back in 1.05.  I would suggest
> moving to another card and would recommend the Intel EtherExpress 10/100B.

Hmm, we run production with it on two large boxes in holland, and some
smaller ones in the UK, no trouble whatsoever, in both modes.

Dw.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 12:16:14 1998
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        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Quake page 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:22:15 EST."
             <19980114122215.05115@erols.com> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:10:40 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Hi,

Are you sure that the NetBSD folks have Quake ][ running ?

The archive seems to suggest that having linux_mremap return EINVAL 
is enough to make Quake ][ however nowhere in the archive is
there is mention that anyone has Quake ][ running.

I downloaded NetBSD's linux_misc.c and for linux_mremap it returns
ENOMEM . Well, I try both EINVAL and ENOMEM and still no joy over here.

Both FreeBSD and NetBSD don't really implement mremap in our current
emulation layers we just return an error code.

	Regards,
	Amancio


> On %M %N, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > 
> > Sure think the ktrace is at:
> > 
> > ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/quake.ktrace.gz
> > 
> > quake ][ issues a Shutdown message then aborts so at least we know 
> > where in the trace it decides to abort.
> 
> If you check the NetBSD-current archives for the last month you'll find
> a message that pertains to this. I believe the problem was that the
> Linux memremap() function is not implemented.
> 
> -- 
> Brian Cully						<shmit@erols.com>
> ``And when one of our comrades was taken prisoner, blindfolded, hung
>   upside-down, shot, and burned, we thought to ourselves, `These are the
>   best experiences of our lives''' -Pathology (Joe Frank, Somewhere Out There)



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 12:36:31 1998
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Subject: Re: Any good comparison of Linux/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD/Hurd?
In-Reply-To: <6373.884772923@verdi.nethelp.no> from "sthaug@nethelp.no" at "Jan 14, 98 11:15:23 am"
To: sthaug@nethelp.no
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:14:08 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands
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As sthaug@nethelp.no wrote...
> >From <34BC2FA5.E334B191@star-gate.com>:

[EIDE versus SCSI single stream dd figures]
[snip]

> 
> So when reading through the file system the performance depends *much*
> more on block size for the EIDE drive - I don't know why. But given
> the right block size, *this* particular EIDE disk seems to be always
> somewhat faster than the corresponding SCSI disk.

EIDE, being a much more simpler protocol at the interface level than 
SCSI, has less overhead. SCSI becomes advantagous in bigger systems,
with lots of I/O going on, where things like on-device queueing etc
become effective. 

> Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no

_     ______________________________________________________________________
 |   / o / /  _  Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko
 |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try'
---------------  Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix  --

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 12:38:43 1998
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I think that the following would be useful 
additions to target kernel in Makefile
if built from 'config -g'

[I believe bsdi did/does this]

	rm -f     kernel.debug
	cp kernel kernel.debug
	strip -d kernel

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 13:20:38 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:19:42 -0800
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Kachun Lee <kachun@pathlink.com>
Subject: 2.2-STABLE with 512M RAM
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I upgraded one of PPro FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE to 512M RAM. I recompile the
kernel with MAXMEM=512*1024. The system came up and ran without problem.
Also, 'top' showed all the memory was being used.

I was going to apply the patch that Mr. Greenman posted about a year ago.
The patch calls for increase some kernel parameters and require a 'make
world'. I was wondering if that is still necessary. I prefer not to have to
copy a separate source tree to do the 'make world'.

If my memory serve me correctly, I remember that patch will make FreeBSD
not BSDI compatible. Is this the only 'negative' about applying the patch?
If I do not care about BSDI compatible, can I run the same kernel with our
other non 512M systems?

Any comments will be greately appreciate.

Best regards

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 13:53:43 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:55:06 -0700 (MST)
From: Brett Taylor <brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu>
Reply-To: Brett Taylor <brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Ethernet card trouble
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I recently got a great deal on a closeout of last year's machine.  It's a
digitial PWS200i Pentium Pro 200 MHz machine.  However, it's having
trouble finding the ethernet card.  The card appears to be a Digital card,
however the only real writing I can find on it is:
	"ALL-IN-ONE Ethernet Coax
		TC3509"

Any ideas on how I should set up this card?  

*********************************************************
Brett Taylor 		brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu
http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 13:56:49 1998
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From: "Peter Korsten" <pkorsten@XS4All.nl>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card 
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:06:27 +0100
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>> I have a laptop with a Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card. Does
anybody
>> know whether there are (attempts to) drivers for either FreeBSD, other
BSD's
>> or perhaps Linux? And perhaps some leads to port such a driver?
>
>If you're able to get specs out of them without signing an NDA, you'll
>be a better man than any who have tried before. :)

Well, just my luck. :) I looked around a bit more on the net (like to the
PAO stuff for PC-Card configuration) and there are Linux drivers for Xircom
cards. I appears that they have loosened their policy.

- Peter




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 14:11:02 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:07:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: iijppp dynamic IP suggestions (inc. diffs)
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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I use iijppp at home to give a small network of machines access to
the Internet.  My provider assigns me a dynamic IP address, and my
local network is a simple TCP/IP 10base2 ethernet.  I run named
with authority for my private domain and a forwarders list pointing
to my ISP's nameservers.

I've had two problems with iijppp.  First, TCP FIN and RST packets
would cause a dial-up.  A one line hack fixed this, and could be
made more general.  Second, the initial packets sent out over the
modem would come back (if they came back at all) with the make-believe
IP address given to "set ifaddr".  I hacked this to work by aliasing
(masquerading) only after the link had gone up and setting up an
IP alias (second address) for the tunnel device.  The ugly part is
forcing mbuf.c to allocate MAX_MRU bytes for every packet in the
IP queue since aliasing can increase packet size.

Of course, the initial packets are important since I run named and
not every connection with the Internet starts with a (remote) name
lookup.  Attached are diffs against the directory /usr/src/usr.sbin/ppp
of 2.2.5-RELEASE.  I have also included necessary parts of ppp.conf,
ppp.linkup, and ppp.linkdown.

Aaron Luz
aaron@csh.rit.edu

diff ../ppp/ip.c ./ip.c
174a175,180
> 
> 		/* XXX Hack: never allow TCP with FIN or RST flags set to */
> 		/*     cause a dialup.					  */
> 		if (direction == FL_DIAL && (th->th_flags & (TH_FIN | TH_RST)))
> 			return (A_DENY);
> 
473a480,483
> 	if (mode & MODE_ALIAS) {
> 	  VarPacketAliasOut(MBUF_CTOP(bp), MAX_MRU);
>           bp->cnt = ntohs (((struct ip *) MBUF_CTOP(bp))->ip_len);
> 	}
diff ../ppp/main.c ./main.c
1002,1005d1001
< 	  if (mode & MODE_ALIAS) {
< 	    VarPacketAliasOut(rbuff, sizeof rbuff);
< 	    n = ntohs(((struct ip *) rbuff)->ip_len);
< 	  }
1013,1016d1008
< 	if (mode & MODE_ALIAS) {
< 	  VarPacketAliasOut(rbuff, sizeof rbuff);
< 	  n = ntohs(((struct ip *) rbuff)->ip_len);
< 	}
diff ../ppp/mbuf.c ./mbuf.c
30a31
> #include "hdlc.h" /* XXX for MAX_MRU */
64c65
<   p = (u_char *) malloc(cnt);
---
>   p = (u_char *) malloc(MAX_MRU); /* XXX cnt */
66c67
<     LogPrintf(LogALERT, "failed to allocate memory: %d\n", cnt);
---
>     LogPrintf(LogALERT, "failed to allocate memory: %d\n", MAX_MRU);
70,71c71,72
<   MemMap[type].count += cnt;
<   totalalloced += cnt;
---
>   MemMap[type].count += MAX_MRU; /* XXX */
>   totalalloced += MAX_MRU; /* XXX */
73c74,75
<   bp->size = bp->cnt = cnt;
---
>   bp->size = MAX_MRU; /* XXX */
>   bp->cnt  = cnt;

from /etc/ppp/ppp.conf
myisp:
 set phone ...
 set login ...
 load fake-route

fake-route:
 set ifaddr 10.0.0.1/0 10.0.0.2/0
 delete ALL
 add 0 0 10.0.0.2
 set openmode active

/etc/ppp/ppp.linkup
myisp:
 delete ALL
 add 0 0 HISADDR
 shell ifconfig tun0 10.0.0.1 HISADDR alias

/etc/ppp/ppp.linkdown
myisp:
 shell ifconfig tun0 10.0.0.1 delete
 load fake-route

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 14:49:40 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:48:32 -0500
From: Brian Cully <shmit@erols.com>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>,
        Stephen Hocking <shocking@mailbox.uq.edu.au>, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG,
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On %M %N, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> Are you sure that the NetBSD folks have Quake ][ running ?

I never said they had it running, I just pointed out that the issue
had come up and was discussed on in NetBSD-current. Sorry for the
mis-communication.

> Both FreeBSD and NetBSD don't really implement mremap in our current
> emulation layers we just return an error code.

So it was said. However, it was also suggested that if mremap were
implemented, things would work better.

-- 
Brian Cully						<shmit@erols.com>
``And when one of our comrades was taken prisoner, blindfolded, hung
  upside-down, shot, and burned, we thought to ourselves, `These are the
  best experiences of our lives''' -Pathology (Joe Frank, Somewhere Out There)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 15:11:37 1998
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From: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199801142309.PAA04735@bubba.whistle.com>
Subject: Re: config -g
In-Reply-To: <199801141733.MAA01638@bt340707.res.ray.com> from "Gregory D. Moncreaff" at "Jan 14, 98 12:33:19 pm"
To: moncrg@bt340707.res.ray.com (Gregory D. Moncreaff)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:09:34 -0800 (PST)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Gregory D. Moncreaff writes:
> I think that the following would be useful 
> additions to target kernel in Makefile
> if built from 'config -g'
> 
> [I believe bsdi did/does this]
> 
> 	rm -f     kernel.debug
> 	cp kernel kernel.debug
> 	strip -d kernel

I agree. That's what we do here.

-Archie

___________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs   *   Whistle Communications, Inc.  *   http://www.whistle.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 15:45:22 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:43:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Parry <laotzu@juniper.net>
Reply-To: Chris Parry <laotzu@juniper.net>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: BOCA-16 io boxes
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Hello, I'm looking to purchase some sets of the BOCA-16 iobox (with the
ISA card).  Unfortunately they've been discontinued. 

Does anyone have any for sale?  Is there another vendor I can goto that
will be supported under FreeBSD that can give me 16 COM ports per ISA
card?

Currently I can only locate one potential vendor:
http://www.gtek.com/products.html

Comments welcome.

-chris



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 15:45:51 1998
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Subject: Re: New typedefs in sys/types.h
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:14:45 -0500
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-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>;
tlambert@primenet.com <tlambert@primenet.com>; brian@awfulhak.org
<brian@awfulhak.org>; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
<freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: New typedefs in sys/types.h


>In some mail from Terry Lambert, sie said:
>>
>> > > Technically, long should be 64 bits because sizeof(int) is <=
sizeof(long);
>> > > but just as technically, a 64 bit int meets the "register size test"
>> > > and the "single bus cycle test" for "int-ness" (the same test that
>> > > *should* have made compiler writers use 16 bit int's on 68000/68010
>> > > chips).
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>> > i believe i goes like...
>> >
>> > long = 64 bits
>> > int = 32 bits
>>
>> This is, of course, just the bogosity I was trying to avoid.
>
>Well, FWIW, apparently Digital Unix has int = 32 and long = 64.
>
>
>
I had seen people use "long long" for 64 bits.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 15:51:16 1998
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Message-Id: <199801142349.RAA00301@unix.tfs.net>
Subject: Re: 3com 3C509B Combo card
In-Reply-To: <199801140514.WAA11772@ve7tcp.ampr.org> from Lyndon Nerenberg at "Jan 13, 98 10:14:40 pm"
To: lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org (Lyndon Nerenberg)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:49:27 -0600 (CST)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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X-Windows: R00LZ!@#  MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@#
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In reply:
> Okay, I'm stumped. I've run 509B's (and plain old 509's) since they
> came out, in a lot of busy production critical servers, running FreeBSD
> and just about anything else for x86 that networked. I've found them to
> be nothing but rock solid reliable.
> 
> Do we know who originated the "buggy" comment in the kernel config?
> Would someone like to volunteer to track back through CVS and see
> who originated it? Would the originator care to explain the comment?
> 
> Personally, I think the whole "buggy" statement is bogus, and has been
> for quite some time. Lacking evidence to the contrary the comment should
> be squelched before this business of buggy 509's reaches the status
> of urban legend :-)
> 
> --lyndon (getting 800+KB/s on his 509's at home, at work at ...)

i do recall a discussion concerning some problems with promiscious
mode on 509's some time ago...  try -digest, circa '95...  i forget
the details though...

kewl callsign!  was that the luck of the draw, or do they have a
vanity callsign system in canada?

jim
-- 
All opinions expressed are mine, if you    |  "I will not be pushed, stamped,
think otherwise, then go jump into turbid  |  briefed, debriefed, indexed, or
radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!!      |  numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner"
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From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 15:57:58 1998
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From: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199801142355.PAA05051@bubba.whistle.com>
Subject: what does MMX mean?
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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What, exactly, does MMX mean?

Does it mean the processor has NEW instructions for DSP type operations?
Does it speed up EXISTING instructions? Integer or floating point (or both)?

Thanks,
-Archie

___________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs   *   Whistle Communications, Inc.  *   http://www.whistle.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 16:06:56 1998
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Subject: Re: ATX motherboard shutdown? 
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> 
> Is it possible to powerdown an ATX computer when doing a halt
> from FreeBSD? Also is it possible to automatically shutdown
> FreeBSD when I switch it off with the off-switch at the front?

Yes, and probably no respectively.

> Linux seems to able to do this (the first part at least) and uses 
> the APM interface for it, while the APM power off seems to implemented 
> in FreeBSD too, it misses a reference to it in kern_shutdown.c, or *I*'m
> missing it.

It's there in -current.

> PS. Only the apm.c in -current seems to have support for the 
> power off function, is there any reason why this wouldn't 
> work in -stable?

Nobody with a -stable system has decided to backport it.  If someone 
were to do so, it would probably be committed.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 16:57:49 1998
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I noticed this when I made a typo in my kernel config file, but if you do
config kernelname on sdX, and kernelname != kernel, make install will
fail, seems to me it should install to whatever the config line specifies.

El hombre mas brillante dijo una vez "Cuidado hay NT". (it's a nerd thing)

- alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 17:07:13 1998
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From: Dan Busarow <dan@dpcsys.com>
To: Atipa <freebsd@atipa.com>
cc: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: linux netscape dynamic image
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Atipa wrote:
> Doesn't then dynamic binary require Motif? That _had_ been the difference 
> between the two several versions ago.

Once, way back in the mists of time, about three years ago, I
remember a NS developer saying that they didn't use Motif but
hand crafted each widget themselves.

Dan
-- 
 Dan Busarow                                                  714 443 4172
 DPC Systems / Beach.Net                                    dan@dpcsys.com
 Dana Point, California  83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4   8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 17:07:41 1998
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From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote:

> Are arrays declared const shared across multiple invocations of a
> program?
> 
> That is, if I have an array
>   const int foo[8192] = {...};
> then will each instance of the invocation separately allocate 16k for
> an array that's never going to change, and exists as it is in the
> executable?

It depends on how it's defined and scoped.

Try different combinations of defining "const int foo" and move them
around your foo.c file.  Try these:

Module scope
Function scope
Function scope and defined static

Then run nm on the a.out and look for foo.  If there's a big T or little t
in front of it then the storage is in text which is mapped read-only and
shared.

Regards,


Mike Hancock
 
> Cheers,
> joelh
> 
> -- 
> Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
>    Fourth law of programming:
>    Anything that can go wrong wi
> sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped
> 

--
michaelh@cet.co.jp                                http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan              Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 19:04:45 1998
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unsubscribe


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 19:17:15 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Cc: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" <moncrg@bt340707.res.ray.com>,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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On Wed, Jan 14, 1998 at 03:09:34PM -0800, Archie Cobbs wrote:
> Gregory D. Moncreaff writes:
>> I think that the following would be useful
>> additions to target kernel in Makefile
>> if built from 'config -g'
>>
>> [I believe bsdi did/does this]
>>
>> 	rm -f     kernel.debug
>> 	cp kernel kernel.debug
>> 	strip -d kernel
>
> I agree. That's what we do here.

I agree too.  And I do something similar as well.

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 19:28:01 1998
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Subject: graphical screen savers (was: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0
	 systems...)
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             <199801130436.WAA02770@detlev.UUCP> 
References: <199801121414.AAA00487@word.smith.net.au>  <199801130436.WAA02770@detlev.UUCP> 
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:34:35 +0900
From: Kazutaka YOKOTA <yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>
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>>>> It's a very short step from there to a semi-graphical login (eg. login 
>>>> dialog rather than login/password prompt.)  I could see people liking 
>>>> that.
>>> Good point, although the graphical login window is really best handled
>>> by xdm, and I don't really see people wanting a graphical login window
>>> being requested without a full graphics system (ie, X).
>> I just thought it would look "pretty".
>
>I agree, it would.  And I don't mind making things look pretty; I
>don't mind aesthetics for aesthetics' sake.  But when I'm in a mood
>for aesthetics, I can switch over to X, switch my window mangler to
>Enlightenment, and use it.
[snip]
>Also, in general, I agree that the pretty things going on while the
>console is idle are best handled by screen savers.  Opinions?
>
>Perhaps it would be best to have an vty ioctl that means 'engage
>screensaver immediately, which getty can send
>when it starts up, depending on a gettytab setting.  Alternately, we
>could use an escape sequence instead, and set it up as the last
>character sequence in gettytab's `lm' (login message) attribute.

Have you look at "text" screen saver lkms in /usr/src/lkm/syscons?

The screen saver lkm is called periodically from the console
driver if there is no keyboard and mouse activities in the current
vty. (Oh, you need to set timeout via vidcontrol too.) Isn't this
interface enough for your graphical saver?

>Well, enough of that, I've gotten in the mood to write a graphical
>*SOMETHING* now, so I'll probably be submitting a graphical
>screensaver RSN.

Please keep me posted. I am interested in graphical screen savers!

Kazu

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 19:30:32 1998
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	Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:28:40 +1100 (EST)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:28:40 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: New function for newsyslog
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I'm added a '-m' option to newsyslog which will allow it to process log 
files on a monthly basis.  The idea is that 'newsyslog -m' is run from 
/etc/monthly (or the periodic file which supersedes /etc/monthly).  
Putting an 'M' in the Interval field of a newsyslog.conf entry will cause 
it to be processed when newsyslog is run with '-m'.

This will allow PRs such as 1708 (1996/10/02) to be closed.

Comments please.

/*  Daniel O'Callaghan                                                     */
/*  HiLink Internet <http://www.hilink.com.au/>       danny@hilink.com.au  */
/*  FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard...                 danny@freebsd.org  */


--- newsyslog.c.orig	Wed Jan 14 15:47:26 1998
+++ newsyslog.c	Thu Jan 15 08:58:02 1998
@@ -22,7 +22,7 @@
 
 /*
  *      newsyslog - roll over selected logs at the appropriate time,
- *              keeping the a specified number of backup files around.
+ *              keeping the specified number of backup files around.
  */
 
 #ifndef lint
@@ -71,8 +71,9 @@
 #define CE_COMPACT 1            /* Compact the achived log files */
 #define CE_BINARY  2            /* Logfile is in binary, don't add */
                                 /* status messages */
-#define NONE -1
-        
+#define NONE    -1
+#define MONTHLY -2        
+
 struct conf_entry {
         char    *log;           /* Name of the log */
         int     uid;            /* Owner of log */
@@ -85,6 +86,7 @@
         struct conf_entry       *next; /* Linked list pointer */
 };
 
+int     do_monthly = 0;		/* Do monthly rollover */
 int     verbose = 0;            /* Print out what's going on */
 int     needroot = 1;           /* Root privs are necessary */
 int     noaction = 0;           /* Don't do anything, just show it */
@@ -155,8 +157,9 @@
                 if (verbose && (ent->hours > 0))
                         printf(" age (hr): %d [%d] ", modtime, ent->hours);
                 if (((ent->size > 0) && (size >= ent->size)) ||
-                    ((ent->hours > 0) && ((modtime >= ent->hours)
-                                        || (modtime < 0)))) {
+                    ((ent->hours > 0) && ((modtime >= ent->hours) || 
+			(modtime < 0))) ||
+		    (ent->hours == MONTHLY && do_monthly) ) {
                         if (verbose)
                                 printf("--> trimming log....\n");
                         if (noaction && !verbose) {
@@ -206,8 +209,11 @@
 	}
 
         optind = 1;             /* Start options parsing */
-        while ((c=getopt(argc,argv,"nrvf:t:")) !=  -1)
+        while ((c=getopt(argc,argv,"mnrvf:t:")) !=  -1)
                 switch (c) {
+		case 'm':
+			do_monthly++;	/* do monthly rollover */
+			break;
                 case 'n':
                         noaction++; /* This implies needroot as off */
                         /* fall through */
@@ -227,7 +233,7 @@
 
 static void usage()
 {
-        fprintf(stderr, "usage: newsyslog [-nrv] [-f config-file]\n");
+        fprintf(stderr, "usage: newsyslog [-mnrv] [-f config-file]\n");
         exit(1);
 }
 
@@ -316,14 +322,16 @@
                 if (isdigit(*q))
                         working->size = atoi(q);
                 else
-                        working->size = -1;
+                        working->size = NONE;
                 
                 q = parse = missing_field(sob(++parse),errline);
                 *(parse = son(parse)) = '\0';
                 if (isdigit(*q))
                         working->hours = atoi(q);
-                else
-                        working->hours = -1;
+                else if ( *q == 'M' || *q == 'm' )
+                        working->hours = MONTHLY;
+		else
+                        working->hours = NONE;
 
                 q = parse = sob(++parse); /* Optional field */
                 *(parse = son(parse)) = '\0';
@@ -473,7 +481,7 @@
         return(0);
 }
 
-/* Fork of /usr/ucb/compress to compress the old log file */
+/* Fork off COMPRESS_PROG to compress the old log file */
 static void compress_log(log)
         char    *log;
 {
--- newsyslog.8.orig	Wed Jan 14 15:47:34 1998
+++ newsyslog.8	Wed Jan 14 22:57:56 1998
@@ -25,7 +25,7 @@
 .Nd maintain system log files to manageable sizes
 .Sh SYNOPSIS
 .Nm newsyslog
-.Op Fl rnv
+.Op Fl mnrv
 .Op Fl f Ar config_file
 .Sh DESCRIPTION
 .Nm Newsyslog
@@ -89,7 +89,6 @@
 .Ar * ,
 then the size of the log file is not taken into account
 when determining when to trim the log file.
-of archives
 .It Ar interval
 When 
 .Ar interval
@@ -97,7 +96,14 @@
 replaced by a
 .Ar * ,
 then the number of hours since the last time the log was
-trimmed will not be taken into consideration.
+trimmed will not be taken into consideration.  If this field is 
+replaced by the letter 
+.Ar M ,
+then the log will be trimmed when 
+.Nm
+is run with the
+.Ar m 
+option.
 .It Ar flags
 This optional field specifies if the archive should have any
 special processing done to the archived log files.
@@ -124,11 +130,15 @@
 instead of
 .Pa /etc/newsyslog.conf
 for its configuration file.
-.It Fl v
-Place 
+.It Fl m
+Process logs with
+.Ar M
+in the 
+.Ar interval
+field.  
 .Nm
-in verbose mode.  In this mode it will print out each log and its
-reasons for either trimming that log or skipping it.
+should be run at the start of each month with this option, to
+perform monthly logfile trimming.
 .It Fl n
 Cause
 .Nm
@@ -142,6 +152,11 @@
 will not be able to send a HUP signal to
 .Xr syslogd 8
 so this option should only be used in debugging.
+.It Fl v
+Place 
+.Nm
+in verbose mode.  In this mode it will print out each log and its
+reasons for either trimming that log or skipping it.
 .El
 .Sh FILES
 .Bl -tag -width /etc/newsyslog.confxxxx -compact

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 19:34:03 1998
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From: John Birrell <jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
Message-Id: <199801150338.OAA07831@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
Subject: Re: BOCA-16 io boxes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.96.980114153643.446A-100000@leaf.juniper.net> from Chris Parry at "Jan 14, 98 03:43:52 pm"
To: laotzu@juniper.net
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:38:48 +1100 (EST)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG
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Chris Parry wrote:
> Hello, I'm looking to purchase some sets of the BOCA-16 iobox (with the
> ISA card).  Unfortunately they've been discontinued. 
> 
> Does anyone have any for sale?  Is there another vendor I can goto that
> will be supported under FreeBSD that can give me 16 COM ports per ISA
> card?
> 
> Currently I can only locate one potential vendor:
> http://www.gtek.com/products.html
> 
> Comments welcome.

What about Stallion? The drivers are in the tree.

Regards,

-- 
John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 20:13:44 1998
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Message-ID: <19980115144234.52624@lemis.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:42:34 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
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I'm just writing kernel code which uses setjmp and longjmp, and I
discover that there are no header files with declarations of these
functions.  How come?  Are they deprecated in the kernel?  Should I be
using something else instead?

Greg


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 21:09:25 1998
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To: Kachun Lee <kachun@pathlink.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 2.2-STABLE with 512M RAM 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:19:42 PST."
             <3.0.1.32.19980114131942.00763f28@rr.pathlink.com> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
Reply-To: dg@root.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:12:33 -0800
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>I upgraded one of PPro FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE to 512M RAM. I recompile the
>kernel with MAXMEM=512*1024. The system came up and ran without problem.
>Also, 'top' showed all the memory was being used.
>
>I was going to apply the patch that Mr. Greenman posted about a year ago.
>The patch calls for increase some kernel parameters and require a 'make
>world'. I was wondering if that is still necessary. I prefer not to have to
>copy a separate source tree to do the 'make world'.
>
>If my memory serve me correctly, I remember that patch will make FreeBSD
>not BSDI compatible. Is this the only 'negative' about applying the patch?
>If I do not care about BSDI compatible, can I run the same kernel with our
>other non 512M systems?

   The answer to these last two questions is "yes".

   The patch is meant to increase the size of the kernel virtual address
space. This is necessary on "large" systems that have a large number of
processes and/or network connections (which consumes a large amount of
kernel virtual memory). If your system isn't "large" and just happens to
have a lot of physical memory, then you probably don't need to worry about
this.

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 21:59:11 1998
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In-reply-to: <199801140514.WAA11772@ve7tcp.ampr.org> (message from Lyndon
	Nerenberg on Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:14:40 -0700)
Subject: Re: 3com 3C509B Combo card
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
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> Okay, I'm stumped. I've run 509B's (and plain old 509's) since they
> came out, in a lot of busy production critical servers, running FreeBSD
> and just about anything else for x86 that networked. I've found them to
> be nothing but rock solid reliable.
> Do we know who originated the "buggy" comment in the kernel config?
> Would someone like to volunteer to track back through CVS and see
> who originated it? Would the originator care to explain the comment?
> Personally, I think the whole "buggy" statement is bogus, and has been
> for quite some time. Lacking evidence to the contrary the comment should
> be squelched before this business of buggy 509's reaches the status
> of urban legend :-)

I can personally vouch that the 3C509 driver in -current was buggy
at the year's beginning.

At the beginning of the year, I installed a small LAN in my apartment:
one W95 machine with a SVEC FD0290, and one FreeBSD machine with a
509.  I never had usable network operations.  A tcpdump showed that
pings (and other packets) would not show as being returned until the
ping process ended.  (Simultanious pings would show responses from
each when that process ended.)  At that point, the appropriate number
of ECHO_REPLYs would be generated.  The computers operated normally
when both were running Windows 95.

I switched to an NE2000 clone and it worked fine.

I haven't repeated the experiment since the recent changes in if_ep.

Happy hacking,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 23:08:27 1998
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From: Alex Belits <abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us>
To: Dan Busarow <dan@dpcsys.com>
cc: Atipa <freebsd@atipa.com>, Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: linux netscape dynamic image
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Dan Busarow wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Atipa wrote:
> > Doesn't then dynamic binary require Motif? That _had_ been the difference 
> > between the two several versions ago.
> 
> Once, way back in the mists of time, about three years ago, I
> remember a NS developer saying that they didn't use Motif but
> hand crafted each widget themselves.

...at the top of some semi-cross-platform library at the top of motif.


--
Alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 23:16:02 1998
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In-reply-to: <199801142007.NAA07464@usr06.primenet.com> (message from Terry
	Lambert on Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:07:31 +0000 (GMT))
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org
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> OK.  Sean was wrong and I was wrong.

Not wrong, if I understand properly, you just correctly answered a
different question than what I meant to ask.

> What you want is already in there.  All original vnode data is
> shared between all processes.  This includes static data.  The
> program txt (executable code) is read-only.  Data is read/write, but
> is marked copy-on-write.  You do not take memory space for
> additional instances of the program, *unless* you write the data.
> If you do, it's copied.  A page at a time.  Uninitialized and
> allocated data are BSS data.  This is allocated per process.

So, let me make sure I've got this straight:

int		g_uninit;	   /* Global uninitialized */
int		g_statinit = 1;	   /* Global statically initialized */
static int	fs_g_uninit;	   /* File scope uninitialized */
static int	fs_g_statinit = 1; /* File scope statically initialized */
const int	g_const = 1;	   /* Global constant */
foo()
{
	int		local_uninit;   /* Auto uninitialized */
	int		local_init = 4; /* Auto initialized */
	static int	ls_uninit;	/* Local static uninitialized */
	static int	ls_init = 4;    /* Local static initialized */
}

Now, I know the scoping rules, and I know the lifetime-of-data rules.
These are not my concern.

If I understand right:

g_statinit, fs_g_statinit, and ls_init are all stored in the data
segment, which is allocated and initialized at compile-time, and at
run-time is initially shared by all instances of the executable but is
copy-on-write (per page).  (I did not originally realize that the data
segment was loaded copy-on-write; I had thought that a separate copy
was generated for each process.)

g_uninit, fs_g_uninit, and ls_uninit are all stored in the BSS
segment.  Memory is reserved in the virtual address space at load
time, but not physically allocated until a page is written to during
run-time.

local_uninit and local_init are allocated on the stack at run-time.
local_init is initialized at run-time (by code generated by the
compiler) semimmediately after allocation.

Now, my question originally boiled down to this: does g_const get
allocated in text or data?  I was assuming this would be significant
because I thought that text was allocated as shareable, but data had a
separate copy for each process.  Now, realizing that data is
copy-on-write, I discover it is not an issue.

> I hope this answers all your questions, and the questions that the
> initial answers might have raised, so we can put this to rest.  8-).

All my questions raised by answers have been answered, and my original
question has been shown to be moot.  I, too, will tire of this thread
before long.

I do appreciate the help from all.

Cheers,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 14 23:25:33 1998
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In-reply-to: <199801150334.MAA25817@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> (message
	from Kazutaka YOKOTA on Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:34:35 +0900)
Subject: Re: graphical screen savers (was: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0
	 systems...)
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org
References: <199801121414.AAA00487@word.smith.net.au>  <199801130436.WAA02770@detlev.UUCP> <199801150334.MAA25817@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>
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>> Also, in general, I agree that the pretty things going on while the
>> console is idle are best handled by screen savers.  Opinions?
>> Perhaps it would be best to have an vty ioctl that means 'engage
>> screensaver immediately, which getty can send
>> when it starts up, depending on a gettytab setting.  Alternately, we
>> could use an escape sequence instead, and set it up as the last
>> character sequence in gettytab's `lm' (login message) attribute.
> Have you look at "text" screen saver lkms in /usr/src/lkm/syscons?
> The screen saver lkm is called periodically from the console
> driver if there is no keyboard and mouse activities in the current
> vty. (Oh, you need to set timeout via vidcontrol too.) Isn't this
> interface enough for your graphical saver?

Yes, I am basing my work on that.  The bit about the new escape means
just not sitting around at a 'login' prompt until the screensaver
engages.

>> Well, enough of that, I've gotten in the mood to write a graphical
>> *SOMETHING* now, so I'll probably be submitting a graphical
>> screensaver RSN.
> Please keep me posted. I am interested in graphical screen savers!

I will post my discoveries and code to freebsd-hackers.  Presently, I
am just having some difficulties debugging, since I seem to be having
a problem switching in and out of a vty running libvgl code; it causes
the display to go into an unusable state.  Other than that, things
look alright.

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 00:14:28 1998
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In localhost.freebsd.hackers you write:

>  [ Apologies in advance for the commercial nature and wide crosspost of
>    this message.  This email is an attempt to gain a valuable resource
>    to the BSD/UNIX community.

>    Please do not follow up to the list. ]

>Many of you may be familiar with Dr. Marshall Kirk McKusick, one of
>the driving forces behind BSD UNIX while at CSRG.  While CSRG is no
>longer, Dr. McKusick continues his work within the UNIX community
>through college courses, authoring books, and contributed source code.

>Starting January 22nd, he will begin a 15 week course covering a
>source code walkthrough of FreeBSD held at the University of
>California Berkeley Extension.  You can find details about the course
>at this URL:

>    http://www.unex.berkeley.edu:4243/cat/eng22.html

>In an attempt to convince Dr. McKusick to offer video taped versions
>of the class to the many people that cannot attend, I took a survey on
>freebsd-hackers to see how many people would be interested.  The
>result of which is he has agreed to produce a set of videotapes if we
>can get enough takers to offset the cost of production.

>The details:

>  o Each class is three hours long.  There are 15 classes.

>  o Tapes will be mailed out each week (the actual time lag
>    between the class and the mailing is unknown at this point).

>  o The tapes may not be broadcast, duplicated and passed out or
>    sold.

>  o The total price would be $1500 for individual personal use, or
>    $2500 for companies that will share the tape amongst more than
>    one employee.  Payment can be made in a lump sum via check or
>    credit card, or on a weekly basis by credit card.

>  o The tapes will be available in NTSC format, PAL format should
>    be available for an extra charge.

>Dr. McKusick has suggested that we approach this on a class by class
>basis.  That is, if enough people feel that the class does not fulfill
>their needs after the first tape, then we can cancel the project.  As
>long as there are enough subscribers to justify the production costs,
>the taping continues.

>If you're interested in signing up for this, or you have questions,
>please contact me at nash@mcs.net.  DO NOT send any credit card or
>other payment information, this will be handled by Dr. McKusick when
>the time comes.  Please do send a note including your name, shipping
>address, which pricing scheme (personal/corporate) you will be
>using, and video format (NTSC or PAL).

>Unfortunately we don't have a lot of time to reach critical mass on
>this project -- in fact we only have about 5 days!

>Alex




-- 
bryan k ogawa  <bkogawa@primenet.com>   http://www.primenet.com/~bkogawa/

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 00:15:45 1998
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From: Alex <garbanzo@hooked.net>
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To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
cc: FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
In-Reply-To: <19980115144234.52624@lemis.com>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:

> I'm just writing kernel code which uses setjmp and longjmp, and I
> discover that there are no header files with declarations of these
> functions.  How come?  Are they deprecated in the kernel?  Should I be
> using something else instead?

man 3 setjmp

El hombre mas brillante dijo una vez "Cuidado hay NT". (it's a nerd thing)

- alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 01:50:02 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Alex <garbanzo@hooked.net>
Cc: FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
References: <19980115144234.52624@lemis.com> <Pine.BSF.3.96.980115001620.233G-100000@zippy.dyn.ml.org>
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On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 12:16:49AM -0800, Alex wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
>
>> I'm just writing kernel code which uses setjmp and longjmp, and I
>> discover that there are no header files with declarations of these
>> functions.  How come?  Are they deprecated in the kernel?  Should I be
>> using something else instead?
>
> man 3 setjmp

I'm writing *kernel* code.

Greg


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 02:01:31 1998
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Subject: Re: graphical screen savers (was: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0  systems...)
In-Reply-To: <199801150334.MAA25817@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> from Kazutaka YOKOTA at "Jan 15, 98 12:34:35 pm"
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<<< No Message Collected >>>

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 04:34:24 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:31:03 +0100 (CET)
From: Didier Derny <didier@omnix.net>
To: Robert Withrow <witr@rwwa.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Linux rvplayer and not-implemented ioctl
In-Reply-To: <199801011815.NAA24691@spooky.rwwa.com>
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On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Robert Withrow wrote:

> 
> Trying to run the 5.0 version of thelinux rvplayer causes:
> 
> LINUX: 'ioctl' fd=7, typ=0x450(P), num=0xf not implemented
> 
> Is this a problem with FreeBSD or the Sound driver, or what?
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM
> 
> 
> 

I've had the same probleme.
below you can find my patches to the linux emulator to
use the RealAudio player 5.0 with FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE

IT'S NOT A SOLUTION TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.

It's just an horrible patch to tell rvplayer that everything is ok.

The real solution to this problem is in the FreeBSD 3.0 source code.



*** linux.h.orig	Wed Jan 14 14:42:21 1998
--- linux.h	Wed Jan 14 14:47:22 1998
***************
*** 491,496 ****
--- 491,497 ----
  #define LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETOSPACE	0x500C
  #define LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETISPACE	0x500D
  #define LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_NONBLOCK	0x500E
+ #define LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETCAPS	0x500F
  #define LINUX_SOUND_MIXER_WRITE_VOLUME	0x4d00
  #define LINUX_SOUND_MIXER_WRITE_BASS	0x4d01
  #define LINUX_SOUND_MIXER_WRITE_TREBLE	0x4d02
*** linux_ioctl.c.orig	Wed Jan 14 14:42:05 1998
--- linux_ioctl.c	Wed Jan 14 14:45:16 1998
***************
*** 707,713 ****
--- 707,716 ----
  
      case LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT:
  	args->cmd = SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT;
+ 	/*
  	return ioctl(p, (struct ioctl_args *)args, retval);
+ 	*/
+ 	return 0;
  
      case LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETFMTS:
  	args->cmd = SNDCTL_DSP_GETFMTS;
***************
*** 724,729 ****
--- 727,742 ----
      case LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_NONBLOCK:
  	args->cmd = SNDCTL_DSP_NONBLOCK;
  	return ioctl(p, (struct ioctl_args *)args, retval);
+ 
+     case LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETCAPS:	
+  	retval = 1;
+  	return 0;
+  	/*
+  	return ioctl(p, (struct ioctl_args *)args, retval);
+  	*/
+  
+     case 0x5012:
+         return 0;
  
      case LINUX_SOUND_MIXER_WRITE_VOLUME:
  	args->cmd = SOUND_MIXER_WRITE_VOLUME;

--
Didier Derny
didier@omnix.net




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 06:23:25 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:19:55 +0200 (SAT)
From: Jacques Fourie <jacques@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
Message-Id: <199801151419.QAA24608@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Pthreads question
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Hi

I'm running FreeBSD2.2.5-RELEASE and I'm noticing weird behaviour when using
the threaded version of libc, libc_r. Included is an example program. When
started with parameter 1, the pthread_cond_timedwait() function returns an
error with errno=0. When started with parameter 0 everything seems to be
working fine. The only difference between the 2 arguments is that in the
first case the pthread_cond_timedwait() is not called in the main thread.

Any help will be appreciated.
Jacques Fourie

-------------------Source code-----------------------------------------

/* Compiled with gcc -o threadtest threadtest.c -lc_r */
#include <pthread.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <errno.h>

pthread_t th;
pthread_t th2;
pthread_t th3;
pthread_cond_t co;
pthread_mutex_t mu;
int fin=0;

void fg(void)
{
  struct timespec ts;
  struct timeval tv;

  pthread_mutex_lock(&mu);
  while (!fin) {
    gettimeofday(&tv,NULL);
    TIMEVAL_TO_TIMESPEC(&tv,&ts);
    ts.tv_sec += 1;
    printf("[.]\n");   
    if (pthread_cond_timedwait(&co,&mu,&ts) == -1) {
      if (errno != EAGAIN) {
        printf("timedwait error: %d\n",errno);
        break;
      }
    }
  }
  pthread_mutex_unlock(&mu);
}

void bg(void)
{
  sleep(2);
  pthread_mutex_lock(&mu);
  fin=1;
  pthread_mutex_unlock(&mu);
  pthread_cond_signal(&co);
}

int main(int argc,char * argv[])
{
  if (argc<2)
    exit(1);

  pthread_mutex_init(&mu,pthread_mutexattr_default);
  pthread_cond_init(&co,pthread_condattr_default);

  pthread_create(&th,pthread_attr_default,(void *)bg,NULL);

  if (argv[1][0]=='1')
    pthread_create(&th2,pthread_attr_default,(void *)fg,NULL);
  else
    fg();

  pthread_join(th,NULL);
  pthread_detach(&th);
  pthread_cond_destroy(&co);
  pthread_mutex_destroy(&mu);

  return 0;
}
---------------------------------Snip-----------------------------------------


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 07:41:09 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:40:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Parry <laotzu@juniper.net>
To: John Birrell <jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: BOCA-16 io boxes
In-Reply-To: <199801150338.OAA07831@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
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> What about Stallion? The drivers are in the tree.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
> CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137
> 

Problem with stallion is that (at least from their web page) they don't
sell anything greater than 8 port boxes, and we have many more machines
I'd like to service from one FreeBSD term server instead of two.

-chris


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 08:23:38 1998
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From: Damon Anton Permezel <dap@damon.com>
Message-Id: <199801151622.KAA20588@damon.com>
Subject: Re: jdk - does it work in 2.2.5R?
To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:22:49 -0600 (CST)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980113180443.00ec72f0@etinc.com> from dennis at "Jan 13, 98 06:04:45 pm"
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"dennis sez: "
> javac is complaining about "libXt.so.6.0". What dependencies are

The JDK port runs equally well (well, poorly, actually) on my 2.2.2-RELEASE
and my 3.0-current.

Looking back to 2.1.6-RELEASE, I see that /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6.0
is there.  You might try installing XFree86.  No idea what the Xinside
comes with, or any other X11 offering.

If you have /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6.0, then look into why your loader hints
are not being set correctly.

> there for running the jdk on 2.2.5R, and what are the limitations?
> the install docs are pretty bad.

Sheesh!  You want it ported, you want the source diffs, you want it to
more-or-less work, and now you want install docs?  ;-)

There is an implicit assumption that X11 is installed.  I know it doesn't
make sense for javac to require X11, but that is there for hysterical
reasons, which might also be practical reasons.

I just lost two days of useless debugging due to having changed (accidentally)
the ordering of -lX11 and -lXm on the java programme link invokation.  It
appears that shared libs are somewhat fragile, and I now suspect that this may
be the reason for the hystorical forcing of the X11 dependency.

Now that I understand this, though, I might have a go at seeing what happens
if I remove the X11 dependency on javac.... once I recover the last lost days,
but i'd rather spend time shooting some of these awt-lesstif-interaction bugs.

Cheers,
Damon.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 09:06:30 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:05:50 -0500
From: Ken Hansen <khansen@njcc.com>
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Organization: Dis
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To: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: what does MMX mean?
References: <199801142355.PAA05051@bubba.whistle.com>
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Hello,
	MMX processors have new instructions (over "classic" pentiums)
and have increased on-chip caches (32K instead of 16K IIRC).

	In my *opinion*, an MMX processor is probably worth the price
difference, even if you don't use the additional instructions.

	Also, when MMX is used by a non-Intel mfg., it may not mean
the on-chip cache is 32K, that may just be an Intel-specific feature.

Hope this helps,

Ken
khansen@njcc.com

Archie Cobbs wrote:
> 
> What, exactly, does MMX mean?
> 
> Does it mean the processor has NEW instructions for DSP type operations?
> Does it speed up EXISTING instructions? Integer or floating point (or both)?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Archie
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Archie Cobbs   *   Whistle Communications, Inc.  *   http://www.whistle.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 09:10:29 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:09:57 -0600 (CST)
From: Mark Tinguely <tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu>
Message-Id: <199801151709.LAA17795@plains.NoDak.edu>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jacques@oskar.nanoteq.co.za
Subject: Re: Pthreads question
Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk

This semester, a NDSU CS class started to use pthreads. From the last couple
days worth of seeing them struggle, it is MHO that libc_r is buggy and old.
you may want to get Pthreads 1.8.3 from:

	http://www.humanfactor.com/pthreads/

it took  minor changes to port your example to pthread 1.8.3 (below),
but the output was:

$ ./xxxpthread  0
[.]
[.]
$ ./xxxpthread  1
[.]
[.]


*** xxxpthread.c.orig	Thu Jan 15 11:04:01 1998
--- xxxpthread.c	Thu Jan 15 11:00:05 1998
***************
*** 11,16 ****
--- 11,20 ----
  pthread_mutex_t mu;
  int fin=0;
  
+ extern pthread_attr_t pthread_attr_default;
+ pthread_mutexattr_t pthread_mutexattr_default = { MUTEX_TYPE_FAST, 0 };
+ pthread_condattr_t pthread_condattr_default = { MUTEX_TYPE_FAST, 0 };
+ 
  void fg(void)
  {
    struct timespec ts;
***************
*** 46,63 ****
    if (argc<2)
      exit(1);
  
!   pthread_mutex_init(&mu,pthread_mutexattr_default);
!   pthread_cond_init(&co,pthread_condattr_default);
  
!   pthread_create(&th,pthread_attr_default,(void *)bg,NULL);
  
    if (argv[1][0]=='1')
!     pthread_create(&th2,pthread_attr_default,(void *)fg,NULL);
    else
      fg();
  
    pthread_join(th,NULL);
!   pthread_detach(&th);
    pthread_cond_destroy(&co);
    pthread_mutex_destroy(&mu);
  
--- 50,67 ----
    if (argc<2)
      exit(1);
  
!   pthread_mutex_init(&mu,&pthread_mutexattr_default);
!   pthread_cond_init(&co,&pthread_condattr_default);
  
!   pthread_create(&th,&pthread_attr_default,(void *)bg,NULL);
  
    if (argv[1][0]=='1')
!     pthread_create(&th2,&pthread_attr_default,(void *)fg,NULL);
    else
      fg();
  
    pthread_join(th,NULL);
!   pthread_detach(th);
    pthread_cond_destroy(&co);
    pthread_mutex_destroy(&mu);
  

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 09:13:53 1998
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To: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: what does MMX mean? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:55:09 PST."
             <199801142355.PAA05051@bubba.whistle.com> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:13:38 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> 
> What, exactly, does MMX mean?
> 
> Does it mean the processor has NEW instructions for DSP type operations?
> Does it speed up EXISTING instructions? Integer or floating point (or both)?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Archie
> 

Not sure what it means --- my guess is MultiMedia eXtensions.
It does not speed up integer operations nor floating points in the case
of the latter it actually slows it down. with MMX instructions you can
do things like do a byte-wise add to a long word. The MMX instructions is
more like DSP operations and it was probably designed to speed up codecs
such H.263 and MPEG.

	Cheers,
	Amancio




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 09:33:17 1998
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From: Rob Ballantyne <ballanty@sfu.ca>
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Message-Id: <199801151730.JAA23695@fraser.sfu.ca>
Subject: Section 9 of the man pages
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:30:17 -0800 (PST)
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  Hello.

  I'm sorry to ask such a trivial question here but I couldn't find the
info on the web site.

  Under version 2.2.1 I had section 9 of the man pages installed.  I can't
find section 9 for 2.2.5 (I recently did a clean install of the new version).
Where might I find those man pages?

  Many Thanks,

Rob


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Rob Ballantyne                         |                               |
| email: ballanty@sfu.ca                 |             _____             |
| System Consultant                      |               |               |
| Operations and Technical Support       |    -----------O-----------    |
| Simon Fraser University                |                               |
| Burnaby, BC, CANADA    V5A 1S6         |                               |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 09:57:16 1998
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From: Jacques Fourie <jacques@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
Message-Id: <199801151756.TAA02757@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
Subject: Re: Re: Pthreads question
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Hi

I downloaded Pthreads-1.8.3 and when I compiled my test program with it,
everything seemed to work fine.

Here is the test program's output when using Pthreads-1.8.3 :
[.]
[.]

Output using libc_r :
[.]
timedwait error: 0

Hardware spec.:
200Mhz PPRO, 128M RAM

I will be happy to use Pthreads-1.8.3 if it supports UNIX domain sockets.
Maybe this is not the right mailing list for this question, but does anybody
know?

Thanks 
Jacques



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 10:10:09 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:34:54 -0500 (EST)
From: John D Duncan <jddst19+@pitt.edu>
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To: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: what does MMX mean?
In-Reply-To: <199801142355.PAA05051@bubba.whistle.com>
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The MMX instructions, as far as I can gather, are a new set of
instructions to provide parallel-style computation on packed registers
of 64-bit words. These instructions are intended to speed up repetative
computation such as a binary xor of a constant against four 16-bit
words by performing the computation simultaneously on all four rather
than looping through the computations.

The normal integer and floating-point datapaths are, i believe,
unaffected.

-John


       ==============

jddst19+@pitt.edu   John Duncan
		    Freshman, University of Pittsburgh

"I'm not a doctor, but I ate one at the UPMC..."


On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Archie Cobbs wrote:

> 
> What, exactly, does MMX mean?
> 
> Does it mean the processor has NEW instructions for DSP type operations?
> Does it speed up EXISTING instructions? Integer or floating point (or both)?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Archie
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Archie Cobbs   *   Whistle Communications, Inc.  *   http://www.whistle.com
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 10:12:51 1998
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From: Bill Rainey <brainey@cisco.com>
To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl
CC: pkorsten@xs4all.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199801130708.IAA09024@yedi.iaf.nl> (message from Wilko Bulte on
	Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:08:46 +0100 (MET))
Subject: Re: Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card
Reply-to: brainey@cisco.com
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> As Peter Korsten wrote...
>> 
>> I have a laptop with a Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card. Does anybody
>> know whether there are (attempts to) drivers for either FreeBSD, other BSD's
>> or perhaps Linux? And perhaps some leads to port such a driver?
>
> AFAIK Xircom is just as bad as Diamond used to be: they won't give you
> programming info for their products, or maybe only under NDA.

Actually, getting the spec from XIRCOM wasn't that bad - they just
have you sign an Intellectual Property license agreement (it is not a
typical NDA) for the spec which allows you to anything with the work
you derive from the spec - i.e. give your source code driver away or
whatever - it only prohits you from sharing the spec or expecting more
support from XIRCOM. The person to contact at Xircom is

John DiGiovanni
Sr. Product Manager
805-376-6844 Voice
805-375-8191 Fax
John_DiGiovanni@xircom.com

and ask for the IP License for the Dingo Spec which is the ethernet
core for the CE3B-100BTX card. The core also has the hooks for the
second function part which in this case is the 56Kflex modem.

Bill Rainey



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 10:16:26 1998
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From: Adrian Gonzalez <agonzale@starbase.globalpc.net>
Reply-To: Adrian Gonzalez <agonzale@starbase.globalpc.net>
To: Greg Skafte <skafte@worldgate.com>
cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3com 3C509B Combo card
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I had this exact same problem on a 2.2.2-RELEASE box that was acting as a
router between two lans.

Changed the two 3c509's for a couple of 3c900 boards (vx driver) and the
problems went away.  I haven't even bothered using 3c509's with freebsd
since then.

My guess is 3c509 support is still 'buggy' :)

hope this helps

-Adrian

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Greg Skafte wrote:

> Over the last few weeks with various versions of RELENG_2_2 I've been
> having a problem with my 3c509 cards.  It seems under conditions of high
> traffic and high colision rates that the nic seems to get confused....
> 
> the machine doesn't lock or reboot, I just lose network conectivity.  
> If I do an ifconfig ep0 down ; ifconfig ep0 up then I'm back.... 
> 
> has anyone else seen similar issues .... 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Email: skafte@worldgate.com	  Voice: +403 413 1910	  Fax: +403 421 4929
>    #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 
> --								          --
> When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole
> lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest
> thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex.       (Janet Morris)
> 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 10:24:44 1998
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To: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
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Subject: Re: what does MMX mean?
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Archie Cobbs wrote:

> What, exactly, does MMX mean?
>
> Does it mean the processor has NEW instructions for DSP type operations?
> Does it speed up EXISTING instructions? Integer or floating point (or both)?
>

it means adding operations under 4x4 (as I remember, or may be 8x8) matrix of
floats. That's all.

> Thanks,
> -Archie
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Archie Cobbs   *   Whistle Communications, Inc.  *   http://www.whistle.com



--

    @=
     //RSSH                              mailto://Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 10:26:58 1998
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Date: 15 Jan 1998 12:32 EST
To: joelh@gnu.org
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, chrisy@flix.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "Andrew Atrens" <atrens@nortel.ca>
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
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In message "sharable static arrays?", joelh@gnu.org writes:

> 
> > OK.  Sean was wrong and I was wrong.
> 
> Not wrong, if I understand properly, you just correctly answered a
> different question than what I meant to ask.
> 
> > What you want is already in there.  All original vnode data is
> > shared between all processes.  This includes static data.  The
> > program txt (executable code) is read-only.  Data is read/write, but
> > is marked copy-on-write.  You do not take memory space for
> > additional instances of the program, *unless* you write the data.
> > If you do, it's copied.  A page at a time.  Uninitialized and
> > allocated data are BSS data.  This is allocated per process.
> 
> So, let me make sure I've got this straight:
> 
> int		g_uninit;	   /* Global uninitialized */
> int		g_statinit = 1;	   /* Global statically initialized */
> static int	fs_g_uninit;	   /* File scope uninitialized */
> static int	fs_g_statinit = 1; /* File scope statically initialized */
> const int	g_const = 1;	   /* Global constant */
> foo()
> {
> 	int		local_uninit;   /* Auto uninitialized */
> 	int		local_init = 4; /* Auto initialized */
> 	static int	ls_uninit;	/* Local static uninitialized */
> 	static int	ls_init = 4;    /* Local static initialized */
> }
> 
> Now, I know the scoping rules, and I know the lifetime-of-data rules.
> These are not my concern.
> 
> If I understand right:
> 
> g_statinit, fs_g_statinit, and ls_init are all stored in the data
> segment, which is allocated and initialized at compile-time, and at
> run-time is initially shared by all instances of the executable but is
> copy-on-write (per page).  (I did not originally realize that the data
> segment was loaded copy-on-write; I had thought that a separate copy
> was generated for each process.)
> 

Copy-on-write aka `lazy copy' is a detail of the implementation *not* the
interface. You must assume that each process gets its own data segment, period.
Otherwise you couple your code to the OS implementation. There are a number
of reasons why this a bad idea.

> g_uninit, fs_g_uninit, and ls_uninit are all stored in the BSS
> segment.  Memory is reserved in the virtual address space at load
> time, but not physically allocated until a page is written to during
> run-time.
> 
> local_uninit and local_init are allocated on the stack at run-time.
> local_init is initialized at run-time (by code generated by the
> compiler) semimmediately after allocation.
> 
> Now, my question originally boiled down to this: does g_const get
> allocated in text or data?  I was assuming this would be significant
> because I thought that text was allocated as shareable, but data had a
> separate copy for each process.  Now, realizing that data is
> copy-on-write, I discover it is not an issue.
> 

I would suspect that const's since they are after all read-only, get put
in shareable memory. Whether that's the text segment or not, I don't know.

Interestingly, in the following example, strategy 'a' uses *double* the
memory of strategy 'b':

strategy a:

int foobared[] = { 3, 3, 3, 3, 3 };
int foobared[5] = { 3, 3, 3, 3, 3 };

strategy b:

const int foobared[] = { 3, 3, 3, 3, 3 };
const int foobared[5] = { 3, 3, 3, 3, 3 };

When you tell me why, you have probably answered your own question. ;)


Cheers,

Andrew
(Opinions are mine, not Nortel's.)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 11:10:23 1998
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CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199801151828.NAA14659@mescaline.gnu.org> (atrens@nortel.ca)
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
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> Copy-on-write aka `lazy copy' is a detail of the implementation
> *not* the interface. You must assume that each process gets its own
> data segment, period.  Otherwise you couple your code to the OS
> implementation. There are a number of reasons why this a bad idea.

I realize that I can't depend on details of the OS implementation,
particularly since copy-on-write is transparent to the user.  However,
when I'm writing a program and trying to decide whether a large lookup
table should be built statically into the compiled code, generated at
runtime, or whatever, it is helpful to know how the memory usage will
be affected.  That's what I'm trying to accomplish with this whole
issue.

> Interestingly, in the following example, strategy 'a' uses *double* the
> memory of strategy 'b':
> strategy a:
> int foobared[] = { 3, 3, 3, 3, 3 };
> int foobared[5] = { 3, 3, 3, 3, 3 };
> strategy b:
> const int foobared[] = { 3, 3, 3, 3, 3 };
> const int foobared[5] = { 3, 3, 3, 3, 3 };
> When you tell me why, you have probably answered your own question. ;)

Hmmmm.... Either way, it's illegal to define 'foobared' twice.

If you meant two use different identifiers, and were global variables,
then one could consider an optimizing compiler which recognizes that
the two arrays under strategy `b' are identical and use one instance
of them, with both arrays pointing to the same place.  Initial
investigations indicate that gcc does not do this with arrays of ints
(although it does with strings in certain optimization modes).  Note
that the object files produced by the two situations, without
optimization, each contain two copies of the array.  (Yes, I tried
it.)  Depending on what is done by optimization effects is and
implementation detail and should not be considered.  :-) But in case
you're interested (I was), each situation, when compiled to an
executable with -O3 optimization, has separate copies for each array
(as verified by both nm and gdb).  In the const case, they are in the
text segment, and in the non-const case, they are in the data segment.
(This answers my original question, thank you.)  However, without the
aforemention hypothetical optimizer, I cannot reason why the situation
a used twice as much memory.

If these were auto variables, then strategy a would require both stack
space for the array at runtime, and text space for the initial value
in the executable, whereas strategy b should only require one copy of
its space in either text or data, I still haven't determined which.
(This is still based on the assumption that it is an error to modify a
const variable through another identifier.)

Happy hacking,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 11:11:11 1998
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Message-Id: <199801151827.TAA01176@yedi.iaf.nl>
Subject: Re: Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card
In-Reply-To: <199801151811.KAA06656@brainey-ss20.cisco.com> from Bill Rainey at "Jan 15, 98 10:11:40 am"
To: brainey@cisco.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:27:41 +0100 (MET)
Cc: pkorsten@xs4all.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands
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As Bill Rainey wrote...
> 
> > As Peter Korsten wrote...
> >> 
> >> I have a laptop with a Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card. Does anybody
> >> know whether there are (attempts to) drivers for either FreeBSD, other BSD's
> >> or perhaps Linux? And perhaps some leads to port such a driver?
> >
> > AFAIK Xircom is just as bad as Diamond used to be: they won't give you
> > programming info for their products, or maybe only under NDA.
> 
> Actually, getting the spec from XIRCOM wasn't that bad - they just
> have you sign an Intellectual Property license agreement (it is not a
> typical NDA) for the spec which allows you to anything with the work
> you derive from the spec - i.e. give your source code driver away or
> whatever - it only prohits you from sharing the spec or expecting more
> support from XIRCOM. The person to contact at Xircom is

I stand corrected. Sorry.

_     ______________________________________________________________________
 |   / o / /  _  Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko
 |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try'
---------------  Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix  --

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 11:30:49 1998
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From: John Birrell <jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
Message-Id: <199801151935.GAA09406@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
Subject: Re: BOCA-16 io boxes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.96.980115073835.673C-100000@leaf.juniper.net> from Chris Parry at "Jan 15, 98 07:40:13 am"
To: laotzu@juniper.net (Chris Parry)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:35:57 +1100 (EST)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG
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Chris Parry wrote:
> Problem with stallion is that (at least from their web page) they don't
> sell anything greater than 8 port boxes, and we have many more machines
> I'd like to service from one FreeBSD term server instead of two.

I thought they had an EasyConnect64 (or something like that) that
was available in ISA and PCI forms. You connect a cable from the card to
the DB25, DB9 or RJ45 connector boxes, each with 16 ports. Connect 4 of
these and you have 64 ports off one board.

I looked at buying one last year, but the project fell through, so
I have not actually used one. This info was obtained from their local
distributor.

Regards,

-- 
John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 11:43:25 1998
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Subject: Re: Pthreads question
In-Reply-To: <199801151419.QAA24608@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> from Jacques Fourie at "Jan 15, 98 04:19:55 pm"
To: jacques@oskar.nanoteq.co.za (Jacques Fourie)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:48:49 +1100 (EST)
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Jacques Fourie wrote:
[...]
> /* Compiled with gcc -o threadtest threadtest.c -lc_r */

You need to compile with -D_THREAD_SAFE to pick up the thread aware
errno. Without that, your code will look at the global errno which
actually belongs to the initial thread. This won't change the
behaviour of the pthread_cond_timedwait() function because the
library should have been compiled with -D_THREAD_SAFE, so there
may still be a problem.

Regards,

-- 
John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 11:57:57 1998
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Does the "wt" device support generic EIDE tapes?  Specifically, I'm
looking at Travan EIDE 8GB tape back-up ($160) or Conner EIDE 4GB
QICWIDE Tape drive ($89).  From looking at the sources, it would
appear that it doesn't, but I thought I'd ask.

Warner



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 12:45:20 1998
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From: David Hawkins <dhawk@river.org>
Message-Id: <199801152043.MAA15528@ohio.river.org>
Subject: Re: 3com 3C509B Combo card
In-Reply-To: <199801150558.XAA04566@detlev.UUCP> from Joel Ray Holveck at "Jan 14, 98 11:58:00 pm"
To: joelh@gnu.org
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:43:27 -0800 (PST)
Cc: lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org, john@mailhost.cas.unt.edu, skafte@worldgate.com,
        freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > Okay, I'm stumped. I've run 509B's (and plain old 509's) since they
> > came out, in a lot of busy production critical servers, running FreeBSD
> > and just about anything else for x86 that networked. I've found them to
> > be nothing but rock solid reliable.

The River's been running a 509B for two years. A couple of things:
1. turn off PlugNPlay
2. don't use a transceiver 

Our colocation service moved the machine recently and put in a
transceiver. The network connection became unreliable. Once I
took off the transceiver all was well. (Someone else figured out the
problem.)

We've used FreeBSD from 2.0.5 until to 2.2.5-stable.

later, david
--
David Hawkins  -- dhawk@river.org        http://www.river.org
"The mind limits. If you believe you've lost your wallet, you can't
buy a thing." -- M Normal

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 13:28:05 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:27:37 -0700 (MST)
From: Brandon Gillespie <brandon@roguetrader.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: /usr/include/sys/types.h FD_ZERO/FD_COPY macros
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The macro's use bzero/bcopy... currently:

#define FD_COPY(f, t)   bcopy(f, t, sizeof(*(f))) 
#define FD_ZERO(p)      bzero(p, sizeof(*(p)))

Should probably be (in order to be more standard):

#define FD_COPY(f, t)   memcpy(t, f, sizeof(*(f))) 
#define FD_ZERO(p)      memset(p, 0, sizeof(*(p)))

Unless I'm mistaken?  (for more info on the FD_* look at 'man select')

-Brandon Gillespie


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 13:49:06 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801152148.OAA25166@usr01.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: session id gets dropped
To: proett@nas.nasa.gov
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:48:41 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801132323.PAA23244@tailspin.nas.nasa.gov> from "Tom Proett" at Jan 13, 98 03:23:37 pm
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> I am working with a batch system that uses the POSIX session to keep track
> of which processes comprise a "job".  Under FreeBSD, I use kvm_getprocs()
> to get information for all the proceses then use kvm_read() to read
> the session structure for each process (pointed to by kp_eproc.e_sess).
> It turns out that the s_leader field in the session structure becomes
> NULL if the session leader exits.  Why is there no s_sid field in the
> session structure to use as a session id even if the leader is gone?
> Even better would be for this to be replicated in the kp_eproc struct
> in kinfo_proc like e_ppid, e_pgid, etc.
> 
> If nobody thinks it's a bad idea, I will look into making the change.

If you are going to go to this much trougly, you should go the rest of
the way and expose the value via procfs so your code will be immune
to needing to be recompiled if the structure changes.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 13:49:48 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801152146.OAA25060@usr01.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card
To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:46:26 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: pkorsten@xs4all.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801130708.IAA09024@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Jan 13, 98 08:08:46 am
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> > I have a laptop with a Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card. Does anybody
> > know whether there are (attempts to) drivers for either FreeBSD, other BSD's
> > or perhaps Linux? And perhaps some leads to port such a driver?
> 
> AFAIK Xircom is just as bad as Diamond used to be: they won't give you
> programming info for their products, or maybe only under NDA.

However, looking at the  PAO drivers put out by the FreeBSD Nomads
for PCMCIA cards, it's pretty apparent that they are starting to use
more standard chipsets (some of the PCMCIA Xircom adapters work
with PAO, though they are officially frowned upon for their policy).

The best answer for a PCI device is to identify the chipset, identify
an existing driver for PCI cards with the chipset (if they didn't
use a standard one, you may be in trouble), plug it in, get the PCI
ID with "no driver assigned", and enter it into the vendor/ID table
for the PCI device.

If they didn't use a standard chipset, all is not lost: get another
card with the Windows/Novell drivers, and send the card and driver
disk to a German or other EU member with a copy of "Sourcer" from
V Communications, Inc., and have them reverse engineer the interface
for you (which they can do legally).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 14:13:24 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801152211.PAA26217@usr01.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:11:53 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980115144234.52624@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 15, 98 02:42:34 pm
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> I'm just writing kernel code which uses setjmp and longjmp, and I
> discover that there are no header files with declarations of these
> functions.  How come?  Are they deprecated in the kernel?  Should I be
> using something else instead?

The setjmp() call says "save my stack, reigster set, and signal mask
at this point" and the longjmp() rewinds the information, except that
the return value of the setjmp() is expected to be zero when it
returns, and the longjmp() is non-zero when it returns for setjmp().

Forget that there's no signal mask in the kernel.  8-).  There's always
_setjmp()/_longjmp()...

In general, setjmp()/longjmp() prevent all sorts of optimizations
from being used.

There are also problems because of kernel stacks.  If I tsleep()
in a driver, I'm not guaranteed to be on the same stack un some
particular situations, etc..  It would be easy to introduce
errors if you do a lot of stack unwinding.

Finally, the purpose of these functions is to allow the throwing of
exceptions, and the kernel has it's own exception mechanisms.

Technically, you could write your own setjmp/longjmp, use them, and
if you were careful, not screw up.  But it makes debugging and other
tasks so difficult for so little gain (in an already difficult place,
unless you have two machines and use a source debugger) that it's
probably better to use a different approach.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 14:44:47 1998
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Subject: Re: New typedefs in sys/types.h 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:39:23 GMT."
             <199801132239.WAA10230@awfulhak.org> 
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In message <199801132239.WAA10230@awfulhak.org>, Brian Somers writes:
>> Well, FWIW, apparently Digital Unix has int = 32 and long = 64.
>
>As does OpenBSD/Alpha, and I believe NetBSD/Alpha.  Nobody's been 
>brave/stupid enough to make sizeof(int) != 4 yet !

Like there'd really be a whole lot of difference there... if
OpenBSD/alpha is that way, you're pretty safe in assuming NetBSD/alpha
is, since I doubt there have been many changes to that code.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 14:49:50 1998
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From: Alex <garbanzo@hooked.net>
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To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
cc: FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
In-Reply-To: <19980115201816.30399@lemis.com>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 12:16:49AM -0800, Alex wrote:
> > On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
> >
> >> I'm just writing kernel code which uses setjmp and longjmp, and I
> >> discover that there are no header files with declarations of these
> >> functions.  How come?  Are they deprecated in the kernel?  Should I be
> >> using something else instead?
> >
> > man 3 setjmp
> 
> I'm writing *kernel* code.

I don't think it maeks a big difference.

zippy:/usr/src/sys#grep setjmp */*.c
ddb/db_command.c:#include <setjmp.h>
ddb/db_command.c:	    (void) setjmp(db_jmpbuf);
ddb/db_trap.c:#include <setjmp.h>
ddb/db_trap.c:	    if (setjmp(db_jmpbuf) == 0)
zippy:/usr/src/sys#find . -name "setjmp.h"
./i386/include/setjmp.h
./alpha/include/setjmp.h

You can try the same thing in the sys/i386 dir if you really wanted
examples from i386/i386 ;-)

El hombre mas brillante dijo una vez "Cuidado hay NT". (it's a nerd thing)

- alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 14:51:06 1998
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Subject: Re: EIDE Tape?
In-Reply-To: <199801151958.MAA03892@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Jan 15, 98 12:58:04 pm"
To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:51:10 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Søren Schmidt <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
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In reply to Warner Losh who wrote:
> 
> Does the "wt" device support generic EIDE tapes?  Specifically, I'm
> looking at Travan EIDE 8GB tape back-up ($160) or Conner EIDE 4GB
> QICWIDE Tape drive ($89).  From looking at the sources, it would
> appear that it doesn't, but I thought I'd ask.

Nope, we don't have support for EIDE tapes (yet).
When I get a little time plus some spare $ thats not spent better
someplace else, I'll write the driver (goes into the atapi subsystem).


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 15:16:42 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:14:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: delayed ACKs (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199801130434.FAA14829@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote:

> I found this on the tcp-impl list... can someone comment if the feature
> is still there in -current (or it ever was) ?

Yes, as far as I know it is, however I don't have a box to try it on.

This was the subject of the short "why 100 byte TCP segments?" thread
on hackers on Sta. or so starting with
<Pine.BSF.3.95.980110210531.3955C-100000@alive.znep.com>

FreeBSD isn't alone in this by any means and you don't run into it that
often, but when you do it is a real pain.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 15:24:07 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
cc: jp-announce@jp.freebsd.org
Subject: I will be in Tokyo from the 1st of February through the 6th.
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:23:47 -0800
Message-ID: <29021.884906627@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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If any of our esteemed Japanese developers would like to meet up with
me during my brief PR visit, I'd be more than happy to arrange some
sort of group dinner, courtesy of Walnut Creek CDROM of course. :)

I'm only going to be there for a short while since I'm rather swamped
with work at the moment and can't afford to take too much time away
from it, but it should be enough time for me to do my press tour
duties (I suspect most of my time will be taken up by journalists
rather that sight-seeing) and meet with the jp.freebsd.org folks at
least once.

Anyway, just a little advance warning.  Please contact me privately
via email if you're interested in arranging something.  If you're in
Japan and are willing to contact other folks who might be interested,
that would be even better since I've little hope of doing that very
effectively myself.  I also wouldn't mind making a brief stop at any
local universities who are using FreeBSD since these things always
interest me and it's a good way of talking to lots of people at once.

Just FYI, and I greatly look forward to finally meeting some of our
Japanese users and developers!

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 15:26:19 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:24:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: delayed ACKs (fwd)
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Erm... unless you are referring to the feature of not doing delayed acks
for non-fullsized segments.  

See the TCP_ACK_HACK ifdef in tcp_input.c

On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Marc Slemko wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> 
> > I found this on the tcp-impl list... can someone comment if the feature
> > is still there in -current (or it ever was) ?
> 
> Yes, as far as I know it is, however I don't have a box to try it on.
> 
> This was the subject of the short "why 100 byte TCP segments?" thread
> on hackers on Sta. or so starting with
> <Pine.BSF.3.95.980110210531.3955C-100000@alive.znep.com>
> 
> FreeBSD isn't alone in this by any means and you don't run into it that
> often, but when you do it is a real pain.
> 
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 16:16:07 1998
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To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: EIDE Tape? 
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:51:10 +0100."
		<199801152251.XAA15195@sos.freebsd.dk> 
References: <199801152251.XAA15195@sos.freebsd.dk>  
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:15:02 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <199801152251.XAA15195@sos.freebsd.dk> S ren Schmidt writes:
: Nope, we don't have support for EIDE tapes (yet).
: When I get a little time plus some spare $ thats not spent better
: someplace else, I'll write the driver (goes into the atapi subsystem).

If I sent you a tape, would that help any?

Warner

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 17:12:39 1998
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199801160112.XAA01058@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
In-Reply-To: <199801151908.NAA01914@detlev.UUCP> from Joel Ray Holveck at "Jan 15, 98 01:08:20 pm"
To: joelh@gnu.org
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:12:12 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: atrens@nortel.ca, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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#define quoting(Joel Ray Holveck)
// > Copy-on-write aka `lazy copy' is a detail of the implementation
// > *not* the interface. You must assume that each process gets its own
// > data segment, period.  Otherwise you couple your code to the OS
// > implementation. There are a number of reasons why this a bad idea.
// 
// I realize that I can't depend on details of the OS implementation,
// particularly since copy-on-write is transparent to the user.  However,
// when I'm writing a program and trying to decide whether a large lookup
// table should be built statically into the compiled code, generated at
// runtime, or whatever, it is helpful to know how the memory usage will
// be affected.  That's what I'm trying to accomplish with this whole
// issue.

Why don't you simply save all your huge const data array in a separate
file, and mmap() it in ?

The compiler will also be happy with this approach, not having to compile
this huge array all time.

const bigtype *bigarray;
int fd;
struct stat si;

...

  if ( ( fd = open( BIGFILE, O_RDONLY ) ) < 0 ) {
    printf( "Error opening data file !!!" );
    return;
  }
  fstat( fd, &si );
  if ( ( bigarray = mmap( NULL, si.st_size, PROT_READ, MAP_INHERIT, fd, 0 ) ) < 0 ) {
    printf( "Error mmaping file" );
    return;
  }

...

					Jonny

--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis			jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698				jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro	UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2  83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 17:28:19 1998
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199801160127.XAA03084@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Directory Search Optimization
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:27:49 -0200 (EDT)
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Hi,

  Sometime ago I've heard about directory search optimizations in FreeBSD.
How is this going ?  

  I have a small "problem" in /var/spool/mqueue, with 22k files.  Just
removing some of them takes stupid ammounts of time and CPU:

last pid:  2361;  load averages:  3.50,  2.87,  2.55                   23:20:48
101 processes: 4 running, 96 sleeping, 1 stopped
CPU states: 10.4% user,  1.2% nice, 87.7% system,  0.8% interrupt,  0.0% idle
Mem: 54M Active, 6564K Inact, 21M Wired, 23M Cache, 6655K Buf, 20M Free
Swap: 128M Total, 32M Used, 96M Free, 25% Inuse

  PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE    RES STATE    TIME   WCPU    CPU COMMAND
 1927 root     93   0   304K   180K RUN      0:13 27.03% 24.19% rm

					Jonny

--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis			jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698				jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro	UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2  83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 17:33:07 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: khansen@njcc.com
Cc: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: what does MMX mean?
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On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 12:05:50PM -0500, Ken Hansen wrote:
> Hello,
> 	MMX processors have new instructions (over "classic" pentiums)
> and have increased on-chip caches (32K instead of 16K IIRC).
>
> 	In my *opinion*, an MMX processor is probably worth the price
> difference, even if you don't use the additional instructions.
>
> 	Also, when MMX is used by a non-Intel mfg., it may not mean
> the on-chip cache is 32K, that may just be an Intel-specific feature.

MMX really only refers to the instructions, not the cache size.  It
stands for "Multimedia Extensions".  The instructions in question do
clever things like 8 parallel 8-bit arithmetic operations on a single
word, which can be of advantage in graphics rendering.

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 17:39:28 1998
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To: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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Subject: Re: EIDE Tape? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:58:04 PDT."
             <199801151958.MAA03892@harmony.village.org> 
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> 
> Does the "wt" device support generic EIDE tapes?  Specifically, I'm
> looking at Travan EIDE 8GB tape back-up ($160) or Conner EIDE 4GB
> QICWIDE Tape drive ($89).  From looking at the sources, it would
> appear that it doesn't, but I thought I'd ask.

'wt' only supports the old Wangtek tape devices.  There is *no* support 
for ATAPI (not EIDE) tapes.  

It would not be terribly difficult to add such support.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 18:07:10 1998
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From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
cc: atrens@nortel.ca, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote:

> If these were auto variables, then strategy a would require both stack
> space for the array at runtime, and text space for the initial value
> in the executable, whereas strategy b should only require one copy of
> its space in either text or data, I still haven't determined which.
> (This is still based on the assumption that it is an error to modify a
> const variable through another identifier.)

What makes you think a const auto (strategy b) isn't on the stack? 
Storage for const defined variable isn't like a constant unless all of the
following are met:

1) Is initialized.

2) Is defined const.

3) Is scoped as an extern or is defined static regardless of scope.

Otherwise, treat const variables as read-only symbols and the storage
class is possibly modifiable elsewhere.  If this were not true then our
string library and a lot of other code would have to be overhauled.  Have
a look at the signatures of memcopy in our string library and also try
other libraries such as glibc to see how const is used there.

news:comp.lang.c might be a good place to find some real language lawyers
to explain this in more detail.

Regards,


Mike Hancock
--
"Const isn't"


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 18:09:45 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
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On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 10:11:53PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote:
>> I'm just writing kernel code which uses setjmp and longjmp, and I
>> discover that there are no header files with declarations of these
>> functions.  How come?  Are they deprecated in the kernel?  Should I be
>> using something else instead?
>
> The setjmp() call says "save my stack, reigster set, and signal mask
> at this point" and the longjmp() rewinds the information, except that
> the return value of the setjmp() is expected to be zero when it
> returns, and the longjmp() is non-zero when it returns for setjmp().
>
> Forget that there's no signal mask in the kernel.  8-).  There's always
> _setjmp()/_longjmp()...

In fact, there's setjmp and longjmp too.  They're there, alright.

> In general, setjmp()/longjmp() prevent all sorts of optimizations
> from being used.

In the kernel?

> There are also problems because of kernel stacks.  If I tsleep()
> in a driver, I'm not guaranteed to be on the same stack un some
> particular situations, etc..  It would be easy to introduce
> errors if you do a lot of stack unwinding.

I can't see a way of using them in this environment.  I'm in the top
half of a driver, where things are more like in user space.

> Finally, the purpose of these functions is to allow the throwing of
> exceptions, and the kernel has it's own exception mechanisms.

Which are?  That was my question.

> Technically, you could write your own setjmp/longjmp, use them, and
> if you were careful, not screw up.  But it makes debugging and other
> tasks so difficult for so little gain (in an already difficult place,
> unless you have two machines and use a source debugger) that it's
> probably better to use a different approach.

So what are kernel setjmp and longjmp there for?

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 18:14:07 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:43:38 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Alex <garbanzo@hooked.net>
Cc: FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
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On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 02:49:43PM -0800, Alex wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 12:16:49AM -0800, Alex wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm just writing kernel code which uses setjmp and longjmp, and I
>>>> discover that there are no header files with declarations of these
>>>> functions.  How come?  Are they deprecated in the kernel?  Should I be
>>>> using something else instead?
>>>
>>> man 3 setjmp
>>
>> I'm writing *kernel* code.
>
> I don't think it maeks a big difference.

setjmp(3) is a user library routine.  It's not the same thing as
kernel setjmp.

> zippy:/usr/src/sys#grep setjmp */*.c
> ddb/db_command.c:#include <setjmp.h>
> ddb/db_command.c:	    (void) setjmp(db_jmpbuf);
> ddb/db_trap.c:#include <setjmp.h>
> ddb/db_trap.c:	    if (setjmp(db_jmpbuf) == 0)
> zippy:/usr/src/sys#find . -name "setjmp.h"
> ./i386/include/setjmp.h
> ./alpha/include/setjmp.h
>
> You can try the same thing in the sys/i386 dir if you really wanted
> examples from i386/i386 ;-)

Thanks.  That was the answer: I wasn't searching /sys/i386/include for
my header files.

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 18:15:43 1998
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To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
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Subject: Re: Directory Search Optimization 
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             <199801160127.XAA03084@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> 
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> Hi,
> 
>   Sometime ago I've heard about directory search optimizations in FreeBSD.
> How is this going ?  
> 
>   I have a small "problem" in /var/spool/mqueue, with 22k files.  Just
> removing some of them takes stupid ammounts of time and CPU:

What happens if you mount the filesystem async?  We regularly have 
directories many more files than that (eg. we have a disk in for 
replacement with several directories with more than 100,000 files in 
them).  We do try to discourage users from doing this, but working with 
them isn't all that bad.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 18:20:02 1998
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Subject: Re: Directory Search Optimization
In-Reply-To: <199801160207.MAA01037@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Jan 16, 98 12:37:06 pm"
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:19:40 -0200 (EDT)
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#define quoting(Mike Smith)
// >   Sometime ago I've heard about directory search optimizations in FreeBSD.
// > How is this going ?  
// > 
// >   I have a small "problem" in /var/spool/mqueue, with 22k files.  Just
// > removing some of them takes stupid ammounts of time and CPU:
// 
// What happens if you mount the filesystem async?  We regularly have 

I had to do this while removing the trash.  Still, it took around to
10 minutes to remove 20k files.  And it was only the rm.

// directories many more files than that (eg. we have a disk in for 
// replacement with several directories with more than 100,000 files in 
// them).  We do try to discourage users from doing this, but working with 
// them isn't all that bad.

If you say that having your mail spool in an async file system is not
bad, I hope this mail gets intact to you.  :)

Of course, in Linux they always do this, but who cares for them ?  :))))

					Jonny

--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis			jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698				jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro	UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2  83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 18:27:53 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:29:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: How do I DELAY() at boot time ?
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On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote:

> Suppose during the probe/attach routine for a device I have to wait for
> some time, what is the correct approach ? I am currently using DELAY()

Very early, DELAY() is the correct aproach.

> (this is in the audio driver, ad1848.c for what matters) and this seems
> not to have the desired effect. Since the same code is also used during
> regular operation, DELAY works fine there... 

DELAY should not be used excet for VERY small delays during normal
operation. instead, either "aquire_timer0()" or timeout() should be used.
tsleep() can sometimes be used.


> should I do something like
> 
> 	if (booting)
> 		do_something_to_spend_time(x);
> 	else
> 		DELAY(x)
> 

I'd say that it should be the other way around..
DELAY() was developed specifically for probes etc.
At other times you don't want to waste the cycles (DELAY is a busy-loop)

> instead ?
> 
> 	Thanks
> 	Luigi
> -----------------------------+--------------------------------------
> Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
> email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
> tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
> fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
> _____________________________|______________________________________
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 18:55:05 1998
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Date: 15 Jan 1998 21:03 EST
To: joelh@gnu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "Andrew Atrens" <atrens@nortel.ca>
Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
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>Hmmmm.... Either way, it's illegal to define 'foobared' twice.

Sorry, bad example.

>If these were auto variables, then strategy a would require both stack
>space for the array at runtime, and text space for the initial value
>in the executable, whereas strategy b should only require one copy of
>its space in either text or data, I still haven't determined which.

The initializer on the right of the `=' is *always* a const. and gets
stored in the text segment. Fortunately, if you make the thing on the
left of the `=' a const most compilers will not duplicate the store.

Therefore, 

const char foob[10] = "0123456789";

will use 10 bytes ( all in text ) , and

char fooba[10] = "0123456789";

will use 20 bytes ( ten in text, ten in data ). It's that simple. ;)
Now, what's interesting is that

char foobar[10] = " ";

will *also* use 20 bytes - the compiler will pad the initializer with
zeroes.

So if you have a big dataset, make it const. You'll only get one copy (which
is all you really want) and it'll be in a shareable text segment :)

Andrew



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 19:37:37 1998
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In-reply-to: <Pine.GSO.3.96L.980115123204.14290A-100000@unixs-eval.cis.pitt.edu> (message from John D Duncan on Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:34:54 -0500 (EST))
Subject: Re: what does MMX mean?
From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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 * The MMX instructions, as far as I can gather, are a new set of
 * instructions to provide parallel-style computation on packed registers
 * of 64-bit words. These instructions are intended to speed up repetative
 * computation such as a binary xor of a constant against four 16-bit
 * words by performing the computation simultaneously on all four rather
 * than looping through the computations.

Yes.  They also have conditionals that leave 0's or 1's in respective
register positions and instructions that use them to "mask" part of
the registers from an operation.  That way, you can do things like
"replace all solid blue pixels in the image with pixels from another
image" without any conditional branches.

 * The normal integer and floating-point datapaths are, i believe,
 * unaffected.

The MMX registers are aliases of regular FP registers.  (They did not
want to add any new registers or flags -- so the OS doesn't need to be
aware of new MMX chips and the applications can still use them.)  So
it won't help if you want to do a lot of FP operations intermixed with
MMX operations.

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 19:45:10 1998
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From: Alex Boisvert <alex@gel.usherb.ca>
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Subject: procfs: intercept calls?
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I've just read in a USENIX abstract that it's possible "to intercept
specific system calls" with the /proc filesystem, and service the call
with a user-level program.

Is this feasible on FreeBSD?  I've just read the procfs man page a few
times and can't see any mention about this.  I suppose that one doesn't
manually overwrite the process' text segment where the syscalls are
made...

Maybe it's source-code documented? ;-) 

Alex.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 20:03:55 1998
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Intel has released the new Pentium II 333Mhz.  It's
here and it's fast. 
Starting Price is $996.00

Call Intol Computers
800-551-1449
www.intol.com




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 21:08:12 1998
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Subject: Re: procfs: intercept calls?
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In article <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980115224236.11844A-100000.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@teel.info-noire.com> you write:
>I've just read in a USENIX abstract that it's possible "to intercept
>specific system calls" with the /proc filesystem, and service the call
>with a user-level program.

This depends on the procfs implementation -- there are at least a half-dozen
different, largely-incompatible versions that I know of.  (I, of course, am
responsible for one of them ;).)

>Is this feasible on FreeBSD?  I've just read the procfs man page a few
>times and can't see any mention about this.  I suppose that one doesn't
>manually overwrite the process' text segment where the syscalls are
>made...

In freebsd-current, yes, it is possible to intercept system calls.  At this
point (and, probably forever), it's an all or nothing approach -- you can stop
a process on system call entry, or system call exit (or both, of course), but
not on any specific system call.  (There are several reasons for this.  First
and foremost is that I did not want to carry around two bitmasks for each
process being monitored, as there are lots of possible system calls.  Second,
given that we support multiple sets of system calls [e.g., native FreeBSD,
IBCS2, and Linux], the idea gets more complicated.)

The best documentation right now is in the truss program --
/usr/src/usr.bin/truss.  i386-fbsd.c deals with the system call entry and
exit.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 21:42:20 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801160541.WAA23329@usr06.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 05:41:10 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980116123904.45753@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 16, 98 12:39:04 pm
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> > In general, setjmp()/longjmp() prevent all sorts of optimizations
> > from being used.
> 
> In the kernel?

In the compiler.

No, I'm not saying the compiler knows about them, only that the programmer
has to, and has to tell the compiler (via 'volatile') if -)2 or better
is to work.  Of course, it may be fixed in the most recent release.. we
all know how goo ".0" releases are .  8-) 8-).


> > Finally, the purpose of these functions is to allow the throwing of
> > exceptions, and the kernel has it's own exception mechanisms.
> 
> Which are?  That was my question.

Using tsleep()/wakeup(), for one.  Any set of operations can be reduced.

> > Technically, you could write your own setjmp/longjmp, use them, and
> > if you were careful, not screw up.  But it makes debugging and other
> > tasks so difficult for so little gain (in an already difficult place,
> > unless you have two machines and use a source debugger) that it's
> > probably better to use a different approach.
> 
> So what are kernel setjmp and longjmp there for?

To make debugging and other tasks difficult.  8-).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 22:16:43 1998
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On Fri, Jan 16, 1998 at 05:41:10AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote:
>>> In general, setjmp()/longjmp() prevent all sorts of optimizations
>>> from being used.
>>
>> In the kernel?
>
> In the compiler.
>
> No, I'm not saying the compiler knows about them, only that the programmer
> has to, and has to tell the compiler (via 'volatile') if -)2 or better
> is to work.  Of course, it may be fixed in the most recent release.. we
> all know how goo ".0" releases are .  8-) 8-).

I understand the optimization issues which setjmp/longjmp bring with
them--see "Porting UNIX Software", page 226-229 for a discussion.  My
question is, to what extent is this relevant in a kernel context?  And
yes, of course, the programmer needs to know how to program.

>>> Finally, the purpose of these functions is to allow the throwing of
>>> exceptions, and the kernel has it's own exception mechanisms.
>>
>> Which are?  That was my question.
>
> Using tsleep()/wakeup(), for one.  Any set of operations can be reduced.

OK.  I have a situation where I discover an error in the middle of a
relatively complicated function.  I can see two possibilities to solve
it:

1.  Return -1 or some such, and test every function call within this
    part of the code.  A lot of code.
2.  longjmp () out of the code.

Could you explain how to use tsleep()/wakeup() to perform this
function?

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 15 22:52:43 1998
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Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
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> Therefore, 
> const char foob[10] = "0123456789";
> will use 10 bytes ( all in text ) , and
> char fooba[10] = "0123456789";
> will use 20 bytes ( ten in text, ten in data ). It's that simple. ;)

I'm sorry, I must be misunderstanding something.  I thought that in
the latter case, the variable would be stored in data, period.  If
fooba[] was in BSS, I can see the need to have the text copy, but why
if it's in the executable's data segment?

How could I experiment with this?  And, based on what you're saying,
when does the initializer get copied?  By crt0, in start?

Somewhere I've got something in the back of my mind telling me that
although the initializer for char*x will be stored in text, an
initialized char x[10] will be stored entirely in data.  If this is
mistaken, please let me know.

> Now, what's interesting is that
> char foobar[10] = " ";
> will *also* use 20 bytes - the compiler will pad the initializer with
> zeroes.

I am familiar with the phenomenon.  I'll use it to set defaults for
options:
  char tmp_path[PATH_MAX] = "/tmp";

Thanks for your patience,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 01:49:35 1998
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From: Jacques Fourie <jacques@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
Message-Id: <199801160801.KAA14094@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
Subject: Re: Pthreads question
In-Reply-To: <199801151948.GAA09435@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> from John Birrell at "Jan 16, 98 06:48:49 am"
To: jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (John Birrell)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:01:13 +0200 (SAT)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Hi 

Thanks a lot. After I've added -D_THREAD_SAFE as compile option, everything
works fine.

Jacques


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 04:20:14 1998
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I've gone some considerable distance towards tracking down a crash
that seems to resemble the problem dave's been seeing.

Basically, a particular setup (running on several 
pieces of hardware) is incapable of doing a full news expire,
We've managed to simplify the case down to a reproducible test, that
involves copying the contents of one disk to a newly newfs'd
partition on another.


The exact symptom that we see is that bits in the cylinder group
bitmap get set by "something" after the cg has bee queued for write.

adding a test confirms that everything is alright immediatly before
the write, but the next time the cg is accessed, there are some extra
bits set. The changes are present on the disk.
It's not hardware.. we've changed everything, but it's reproducible.
with this particular setup..

<hmmmm> the more I write here the more it sounds like flaky hardware..
    <\hmmmmm> but the patterns seen on disk do not 
act like hardware..
it looks like a reallocation..

some file or more likely, directory, is extended,
and the cg summary info is never updated, though the 
bitmaps are..


so the question is:

does anyone know of any 'covert' paths where the cg structs 
(including bitmaps) are accessed other than in ffs_alloc.c? 
I'd love to be able to mark the pages concerned 'read-only' when I queue
them for write. that'd catch the other writer,, :)

anyone have any ideas on how I'd do that for a bdwrite(bp)?


julian

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 05:34:11 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:36:08 +0100 (CET)
From: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>
To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: CAM boot floppy
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Hi!

I've put on ftp.freebsd.org a version of boot.flp which includes the new
CAM SCSI code, with support for AIC7895 chip found on the newest Adaptec
controllers. The file is:

ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/cam-boot.tgz

and contains short README and a special kernel.flp with the proper kernel
'saute' (i.e. without MFS/sysinstall). 

Andrzej Bialecki

---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------
abial@warman.org.pl  | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") }
Research & Academic  | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out."
Network in Poland    | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion.
---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 07:28:16 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:17:54 +0000
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CC: lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org, john@mailhost.cas.unt.edu, skafte@worldgate.com,
        freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199801152043.MAA15528@ohio.river.org>
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> The River's been running a 509B for two years. A couple of things:
> 1. turn off PlugNPlay
> 2. don't use a transceiver 
> 
> Our colocation service moved the machine recently and put in a
> transceiver. The network connection became unreliable. Once I
> took off the transceiver all was well. (Someone else figured out the
> problem.)

If you have a transceiver hooked to a hub you need to turn off
SQE (heartbeat)--otherwise this will generate collisions--see
http://www.ots.utexas.edu:8080/ethernet/enet-faqs/ethernet-faq
search for 05.02Q or 802.3 repeater

--------------------------------------------------
John A. Booth
University of North Texas
College of Arts & Sciences
Computer Support Specialist
GW address: CAS.PO7.JOHN
Internet:   john@unt.edu
Office:     940-565-4498

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 08:02:31 1998
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Subject: Re: Linux rvplayer and not-implemented ioctl 
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I made a similar patch to the 2.2.5 code, but, for me, when using
the 4front drivers I get system hangs using either the raplayer
or the rvplayer, in some cases.

I'd publish the patch if it weren't for that...

Does anyone else have hangs from 4front stuff?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 08:24:46 1998
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To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
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Subject: Re: Purify/Insure++ 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:42:21 -0400."
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scrappy@hub.org (about Insure++) said:
:- I just had a discussion with one of their guys...his "solution" was to
:-  get a copy for Solaris and run it on one of my systems at work

I've been around this ring with them also.  We actually bought a 
bunch of licenses from them, for a bunch of systems.  They had
an "experimental" BSDI version for a while, but it didn't run
well on FreeBSD.

The product itself is not bad, but they have a rather strange marketing
model and a "weird" licensing architecture.

:- I'm going to look at Purify next...

Which is a really nice product.  I've pinged them about FreeBSD support
periodicaly.  The licence fee for this is worth every dollar.  At work
we buy s-loads of stuff from them.

I'd urge anyone who legitimately would purchase a FreeBSD version to call them
and ask for it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 08:27:28 1998
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jkh@time.cdrom.com said:
:-  That's about 150 copies a month

Right!  I'll bet they're moving 150 copies a month each of their HPUX and 
AIX ports....... NOT.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 08:30:01 1998
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From: Jim Bryant <jbryant@unix.tfs.net>
Message-Id: <199801161629.KAA01276@unix.tfs.net>
Subject: igmp question
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:29:31 -0600 (CST)
Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net
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question:

	This is not on a FreeBSD box.

	This is on a HP-9000/800 K400, under HP/UX 10.10...  Sorry,
	but I thought someone here might be able to answer anyway.

	From `netstat -s`:

igmp:
	0 messages received
	0 messages received with too few bytes
	0 messages received with bad checksum
	13041472 membership queries received
	13041472 membership queries received with incorrect field(s)
	0 membership reports received
	0 membership reports received with incorrect field(s)
	0 membership reports received for groups to which this host belongs
	0 membership reports sent

why isn't the ++igmpstat.igps_rcv_total; line in igmp.c bumping the
counter?  the /usr/include/netinet/igmp_var.h starts off with:

/* $Header: igmp_var.h,v 1.4.89.5 95/04/10 11:33:03 indnetwk Exp $ */

#ifndef _NETINET_IGMP_VAR_INCLUDED
#define _NETINET_IGMP_VAR_INCLUDED

/*
 * Internet Group Management Protocol (IGMP),
 * implementation-specific definitions.
 *
 * Written by Steve Deering, Stanford, May 1988.
 *
 * MULTICAST 1.2
 */

indicating that they simply use a hacked reference implementation,
also indicating that the source code base on which HP's igmp is based
SHOULD have, and always has had the ++igmpstat.igps_rcv_total; line.
the way i read the reference implementation, the membership query
counters CANNOT be bumped without the total count being bumped...

any ideas?

jim
-- 
All opinions expressed are mine, if you    |  "I will not be pushed, stamped,
think otherwise, then go jump into turbid  |  briefed, debriefed, indexed, or
radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!!      |  numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner"
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From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 08:35:23 1998
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To: Robert Withrow <witr@rwwa.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Subject: Re: Purify/Insure++ 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:27:34 EST."
             <199801161627.LAA14410@spooky.rwwa.com> 
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:34:50 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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Yeah, but those are already paid for. ;-)

Seriously, I think HP and IBM both ponied up some serious cash to get
their own ports done.

					Jordan

> 
> jkh@time.cdrom.com said:
> :-  That's about 150 copies a month
> 
> Right!  I'll bet they're moving 150 copies a month each of their HPUX and 
> AIX ports....... NOT.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM
> 
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 08:56:10 1998
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From: Ruslan Shevchenko <Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua>
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To: Alexandre Snarskii <snar@paranoia.ru>
CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD UNIX?
References: <Pine.3.89.9801151337.A21235-0100000@netcom18> <34BE2D83.36F7DA23@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> <19980116185037.17831@nevalink.ru>
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Alexandre Snarskii wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 05:38:44PM +0200, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote:
> ?
> ? http://www.xopen.org for references.
> ?
> ? Look at http://UNIX-systems.org  for online single-unix specification.
> ?
> ? FreeBSD is not full compability with standart, (for example  have no
> ? uid_t and gid_t),
>
> Really ? :)
> bash# grep uid_t /usr/include/sys/types.h
> typedef unsigned long   uid_t;          /* user id */
> bash# grep gid_t /usr/include/sys/types.h
> typedef unsigned long   gid_t;          /* group id */
>

Hmm, it means that FreeBSD have "internal standart bugs"

definition from ?pwd.h>:
 (on 2.2-STABLE:

struct passwd {
        char    *pw_name;               /* user name */
        char    *pw_passwd;             /* encrypted password */
        int     pw_uid;                 /* user uid */
        int     pw_gid;                 /* user gid */
        time_t  pw_change;              /* password change time */
        char    *pw_class;              /* user access class */
        char    *pw_gecos;              /* Honeywell login info */
        char    *pw_dir;                /* home directory */
        char    *pw_shell;              /* default shell */
        time_t  pw_expire;              /* account expiration */
        int     pw_fields;              /* internal: fields filled in */
};

}

SUID requirements:

      char    *pw_name   user's login name
      uid_t    pw_uid    numerical user ID
      gid_t    pw_gid    numerical group ID
      char    *pw_dir    initial working directory
      char    *pw_shell  program to use as shell


send_pr ?

P.S. I add hackers in CC --- may be anybody from commiters want to fix
this  ;)

> FreeBSD 2.1.5 - i have no older one installed about...
> But, if you really interested, i can check 1.1.5.1 -
> there are old CD on the wall.. .
> --
> Alexandre Snarskii
> the source code is included



--

    @=
     //RSSH                              mailto://Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 08:58:53 1998
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To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
cc: Robert Withrow <witr@rwwa.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
        The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Subject: Re: Purify/Insure++ 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:34:50 PST."
             <5428.884968490@time.cdrom.com> 
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jkh@time.cdrom.com said:
:- Seriously, I think HP and IBM both ponied up some serious cash to get
:- their own ports done. 

They are being typically short sighted.  There are 1000's of programmers
who would help them port for free to Linux and/or FreeBsd, and would
be willing to sign a non-disclosure to do it.  They could sell a $599
support-is-extra license for purify and (I think) sell skads of them.
And their cost of support and their configuration control hassels would 
be essentially nil.

They could make reasonable money, but the chicken-and-egg fallacy makes
them think that there is no demand for this product.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 09:08:08 1998
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From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: Robert Withrow <witr@rwwa.com>
cc: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Purify/Insure++ 
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Robert Withrow wrote:

> Which is a really nice product.  I've pinged them about FreeBSD support
> periodicaly.  The licence fee for this is worth every dollar.  At work
> we buy s-loads of stuff from them.

	What is the licensing fee like?  Assuming a single user license
(or whatever is equivalent)



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 09:25:30 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:24:08 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
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To: hackers
Subject: SMC and 3COM ethernet cards
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i have heard that the newest SMC and 3COM cards are very popular
anyone working on a driver for these cards?

i understand that they ship with computers from Dell and other companies.

jmb

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 09:30:59 1998
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From: Doug Ambrisko <ambrisko@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199801161727.JAA29958@crab.whistle.com>
Subject: Re: BOCA-16 io boxes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.96.980115073835.673C-100000@leaf.juniper.net> from Chris Parry at "Jan 15, 98 07:40:13 am"
To: laotzu@juniper.net (Chris Parry)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:27:26 -0800 (PST)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG
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Chris Parry writes:
| > What about Stallion? The drivers are in the tree.
| > 
| > Regards,
| > 
| > -- 
| > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
| > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137
| > 
| 
| Problem with stallion is that (at least from their web page) they don't
| sell anything greater than 8 port boxes, and we have many more machines
| I'd like to service from one FreeBSD term server instead of two.

Checkout the Comtrol stuff (www.comtrol.com).  We had serious trouble with
the quality of the BOCA product.  The first one worked fine and then the
second one was a bad as were the 3 replacements.  The RocketPort stuff
has an ISA or PCI card that connects to a box for the 16 ports.  We bought
the ISA version with the rackmount interface box.  I like it a lot since
it has activity LEDs for each port.  Nice for making sure stuff is happening
on the right port.  Drivers for FreeBSD are on the web site (or FTP) and
I think they are getting rolled into FreeBSD.  However for 2.2.5 I think I
had patch the kernel with the web site drivers.  It also goes up to 230K. 

Doug A.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 10:16:14 1998
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From: Wilko Bulte <wilko@yedi.iaf.nl>
Message-Id: <199801161738.SAA13832@yedi.iaf.nl>
Subject: experiences with Motorola Bitsurfr ISDN TA
To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:38:45 +0100 (MET)
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Hi there,

I've made a small trade and I obtained a Motorola Bitsurfr Pro ISDN TA.

I'm now looking for experiences with this box, preferably in Europe/
The Netherlands (same ISDN implementation etc). But of course US experiences
are also welcome!

If I get it working I'll write up a story 'bout it for the handbook.

TIA
_     ______________________________________________________________________
 |   / o / /  _  Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko
 |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try'
---------------  Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix  --

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 10:54:58 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:53:51 +0100
From: "Lars Köller" <lkoeller@cc.FH-Lippe.DE>
Organization: Fachhochschule Lippe (Lemgo)
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To: Robert Withrow <witr@rwwa.com>
CC: Didier Derny <didier@omnix.net>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Linux rvplayer and not-implemented ioctl
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Hi!

Robert Withrow wrote:
> 
> I made a similar patch to the 2.2.5 code, but, for me, when using
> the 4front drivers I get system hangs using either the raplayer
> or the rvplayer, in some cases.
> 
> I'd publish the patch if it weren't for that...
> 
> Does anyone else have hangs from 4front stuff?

Yes, with version 3.8.1? there are always a total crash when using X11
and sound!

Lars
-- 
E-Mail:                                    |  Lars Koeller
 Lars.Koeller@Uni-Bielefeld.DE              |  UNIX Sysadmin
 lkoeller@cc.FH-Lippe.DE (private)           |  Computing Center
PGP-key:                                      |  University of Bielefeld
 http://www.nic.surfnet.nl/pgp/pks-toplev.html |   Germany
---------- FreeBSD, what else? ------- http://www.freebsd.org ----------

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 10:56:01 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:48:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Handy <handy@sag.space.lockheed.com>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Mail Status?
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X-Files: The truth is out there
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Judging from the cvsup logs, I'm going to guess I'm not getting cvs-all
stuff anymore.  (I checked majordomo, I'm still subscribed.)  I imagine
this is another one of those "work-in-progress"  things that will take
place after the funeral and customary Moment of Silence.

I'm wildly speculating on this, but I imagine I'm pretty close.  Thanks,
Jordan, for keeping us appraised of what's up!  It felt like someone had
pulled the life support on me when my deluge of FreeBSD mail quit rolling
in.  :-) 


Brian


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 11:38:11 1998
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From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
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Subject: Re: Mail Status?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980116104532.26651G-100000@sag.space.lockheed.com> from Brian Handy at "Jan 16, 98 10:48:49 am"
To: handy@sag.space.lockheed.com (Brian Handy)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:38:00 -0800 (PST)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Brian Handy wrote:
> Judging from the cvsup logs, I'm going to guess I'm not getting cvs-all
> stuff anymore.  (I checked majordomo, I'm still subscribed.)  I imagine
> this is another one of those "work-in-progress"  things that will take
> place after the funeral and customary Moment of Silence.

	yep.....cvs-all got whacked.....now fixed.
	all new commits will show up there.


jmb

> I'm wildly speculating on this, but I imagine I'm pretty close.  Thanks,
> Jordan, for keeping us appraised of what's up!  It felt like someone had
> pulled the life support on me when my deluge of FreeBSD mail quit rolling
> in.  :-) 

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 14:12:28 1998
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From: Frank Mayhar <frank@exit.com>
Message-Id: <199801162156.NAA04169@exit.com>
Subject: CLOCAL in user-mode PPP????
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:56:58 -0800 (PST)
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(I'm trusting that the list isn't dead.  I'm afraid it is.)

I'm looking at the user-mode PPP source.  I have a problem where dialup
PPP sessions aren't being hung up when the user quits, under FreeBSD 
2.2.5-STABLE (the very latest bits).  It turns out that user-mode PPP is
setting CLOCAL on the device.

This seems stupid.

Why does it set CLOCAL?  Why doesn't it want to let you hang up on it?  I'm
in the process of hacking my local copy to _not_ set CLOCAL, which is what
I apparently did for FreeBSD 2.1 as well, but it would be nice to see this
change get into the mainline source, so I don't have to keep fixing it for
my application.

Thanks for any replies.  Extra thanks for the useful ones!
-- 
Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 14:53:33 1998
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From: "Bob Bishop" <rb@gid.co.uk>
To: "<Dan Busarow" <dan@dpcsys.com>
Cc: "<Amancio Hasty" <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>, >, <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: linux netscape dynamic image
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:50:04 -0000
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Hi,

> Once, way back in the mists of time, about three years ago, I
> remember a NS developer saying that they didn't use Motif but
> hand crafted each widget themselves.

I believe that Unix versions of Navigator were done with XDesigner and some
Microline widgets.

--
Bob Bishop                                   +44 118 977 4017
rb@gid.co.uk



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 18:07:35 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:06:43 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: 2nd call for comments: New option for newsyslog
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I'm added a '-m' option to newsyslog which will allow it to process log 
files on a monthly basis.  The idea is that 'newsyslog -m' is run from 
/etc/monthly (or the periodic file which supersedes /etc/monthly).  
Putting an 'M' in the Interval field of a newsyslog.conf entry will cause 
it to be processed when newsyslog is run with '-m'.

This will allow PRs such as 1708 (1996/10/02) to be closed.

Does anyone have any comments, positive or negative, about this extension 
to newsyslog?  I'd like to get this reviewed and into 2.2.6.

Danny

/*  Daniel O'Callaghan                                                     */
/*  HiLink Internet <http://www.hilink.com.au/>       danny@hilink.com.au  */
/*  FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard...                 danny@freebsd.org  */


--- newsyslog.c.orig	Wed Jan 14 15:47:26 1998
+++ newsyslog.c	Thu Jan 15 08:58:02 1998
@@ -22,7 +22,7 @@
 
 /*
  *      newsyslog - roll over selected logs at the appropriate time,
- *              keeping the a specified number of backup files around.
+ *              keeping the specified number of backup files around.
  */
 
 #ifndef lint
@@ -71,8 +71,9 @@
 #define CE_COMPACT 1            /* Compact the achived log files */
 #define CE_BINARY  2            /* Logfile is in binary, don't add */
                                 /* status messages */
-#define NONE -1
-        
+#define NONE    -1
+#define MONTHLY -2        
+
 struct conf_entry {
         char    *log;           /* Name of the log */
         int     uid;            /* Owner of log */
@@ -85,6 +86,7 @@
         struct conf_entry       *next; /* Linked list pointer */
 };
 
+int     do_monthly = 0;		/* Do monthly rollover */
 int     verbose = 0;            /* Print out what's going on */
 int     needroot = 1;           /* Root privs are necessary */
 int     noaction = 0;           /* Don't do anything, just show it */
@@ -155,8 +157,9 @@
                 if (verbose && (ent->hours > 0))
                         printf(" age (hr): %d [%d] ", modtime, ent->hours);
                 if (((ent->size > 0) && (size >= ent->size)) ||
-                    ((ent->hours > 0) && ((modtime >= ent->hours)
-                                        || (modtime < 0)))) {
+                    ((ent->hours > 0) && ((modtime >= ent->hours) || 
+			(modtime < 0))) ||
+		    (ent->hours == MONTHLY && do_monthly) ) {
                         if (verbose)
                                 printf("--> trimming log....\n");
                         if (noaction && !verbose) {
@@ -206,8 +209,11 @@
 	}
 
         optind = 1;             /* Start options parsing */
-        while ((c=getopt(argc,argv,"nrvf:t:")) !=  -1)
+        while ((c=getopt(argc,argv,"mnrvf:t:")) !=  -1)
                 switch (c) {
+		case 'm':
+			do_monthly++;	/* do monthly rollover */
+			break;
                 case 'n':
                         noaction++; /* This implies needroot as off */
                         /* fall through */
@@ -227,7 +233,7 @@
 
 static void usage()
 {
-        fprintf(stderr, "usage: newsyslog [-nrv] [-f config-file]\n");
+        fprintf(stderr, "usage: newsyslog [-mnrv] [-f config-file]\n");
         exit(1);
 }
 
@@ -316,14 +322,16 @@
                 if (isdigit(*q))
                         working->size = atoi(q);
                 else
-                        working->size = -1;
+                        working->size = NONE;
                 
                 q = parse = missing_field(sob(++parse),errline);
                 *(parse = son(parse)) = '\0';
                 if (isdigit(*q))
                         working->hours = atoi(q);
-                else
-                        working->hours = -1;
+                else if ( *q == 'M' || *q == 'm' )
+                        working->hours = MONTHLY;
+                else
+                        working->hours = NONE;
 
                 q = parse = sob(++parse); /* Optional field */
                 *(parse = son(parse)) = '\0';
@@ -473,7 +481,7 @@
         return(0);
 }
 
-/* Fork of /usr/ucb/compress to compress the old log file */
+/* Fork off COMPRESS_PROG to compress the old log file */
 static void compress_log(log)
         char    *log;
 {
--- newsyslog.8.orig	Wed Jan 14 15:47:34 1998
+++ newsyslog.8	Wed Jan 14 22:57:56 1998
@@ -25,7 +25,7 @@
 .Nd maintain system log files to manageable sizes
 .Sh SYNOPSIS
 .Nm newsyslog
-.Op Fl rnv
+.Op Fl mnrv
 .Op Fl f Ar config_file
 .Sh DESCRIPTION
 .Nm Newsyslog
@@ -89,7 +89,6 @@
 .Ar * ,
 then the size of the log file is not taken into account
 when determining when to trim the log file.
-of archives
 .It Ar interval
 When 
 .Ar interval
@@ -97,7 +96,14 @@
 replaced by a
 .Ar * ,
 then the number of hours since the last time the log was
-trimmed will not be taken into consideration.
+trimmed will not be taken into consideration.  If this field is 
+replaced by the letter 
+.Ar M ,
+then the log will be trimmed when 
+.Nm
+is run with the
+.Ar m 
+option.
 .It Ar flags
 This optional field specifies if the archive should have any
 special processing done to the archived log files.
@@ -124,11 +130,15 @@
 instead of
 .Pa /etc/newsyslog.conf
 for its configuration file.
-.It Fl v
-Place 
+.It Fl m
+Process logs with
+.Ar M
+in the 
+.Ar interval
+field.  
 .Nm
-in verbose mode.  In this mode it will print out each log and its
-reasons for either trimming that log or skipping it.
+should be run at the start of each month with this option, to
+perform monthly logfile trimming.
 .It Fl n
 Cause
 .Nm
@@ -142,6 +152,11 @@
 will not be able to send a HUP signal to
 .Xr syslogd 8
 so this option should only be used in debugging.
+.It Fl v
+Place 
+.Nm
+in verbose mode.  In this mode it will print out each log and its
+reasons for either trimming that log or skipping it.
 .El
 .Sh FILES
 .Bl -tag -width /etc/newsyslog.confxxxx -compact


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 18:47:36 1998
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To: Robert Withrow <witr@rwwa.com>
cc: Didier Derny <didier@omnix.net>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Linux rvplayer and not-implemented ioctl 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:03:08 EST."
             <199801161603.LAA14298@spooky.rwwa.com> 
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:45:34 -0800
Message-ID: <15994.885005134@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> Does anyone else have hangs from 4front stuff?

Yeah, it's unusable for RealAudio I'm afraid - more or less instant
panic material.

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 19:39:57 1998
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From: The Classiest Man Alive <ksmm@cybercom.net>
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To: Satoshi Asami <asami@cs.berkeley.edu>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: what does MMX mean?
In-Reply-To: <199801160146.RAA15220@bubble.didi.com>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Satoshi Asami wrote:

:  * The normal integer and floating-point datapaths are, i believe,
:  * unaffected.
: 
: The MMX registers are aliases of regular FP registers.  (They did not
: want to add any new registers or flags -- so the OS doesn't need to be
: aware of new MMX chips and the applications can still use them.)  So
: it won't help if you want to do a lot of FP operations intermixed with
: MMX operations.

Is this true for the Pentium II as well?

K.S.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 20:01:36 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:00:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 3com 3C509B Combo card
In-Reply-To: <199801152043.MAA15528@ohio.river.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980116225459.7983A-100000@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
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I guess I cannot say this enough...

With my current 3c509 2.2.5-STABLE system I have had sustained transfers
accross a switched network, throug a router, (both networks loaded), had
sustained 850 KBytes/Sec NFSv3 transfers of 2Gig (both machines running
identical configurations). this is the same machine that handles a 2.2.5
mirror via FTP and NFS, at times haveing 15 people simultaneously
downloading 600Meg files, NFS exporting the same files, and serving
15,000+web documents a day (mostly CGI-BIN), with more than 90% idle time
at a peak.

--
David Cross
UNIX Systems Administrator
GE Corporate R&D


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 20:02:43 1998
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To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-Reply-To: <199801122243.OAA01492@rah.star-gate.com>
References: <199801122243.OAA01492@rah.star-gate.com>
Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:01:18 -0800
From: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
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In article <199801122243.OAA01492@rah.star-gate.com>,
Amancio Hasty  <hasty@rah.star-gate.com> wrote:

> If you can come up with a fix I will do my best to see that the fix
> gets committed provided that the fix does not break the loader

I would appreciate it if you'd let me review it before you commit.

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 20:04:03 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 2nd call for comments: New option for newsyslog
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On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote:

> I'm added a '-m' option to newsyslog which will allow it to process log 
...
> Does anyone have any comments, positive or negative, about this extension 
> to newsyslog?  I'd like to get this reviewed and into 2.2.6.

  I submitted on the PRs on this issue...

  "-m" seems a bit specific.  What about weekly and daily options too?  If
you do, newsyslog starts looking a lot like cron.  Using newsyslog to
rotate non-syslog created log files is rather a stretch.  Using newsyslog
for non-text "logs" is even more of stretch.

  Perhaps wtmp rotation should just be done by cron right in the monthly
script, where the accounting processing happens?

> Danny

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 20:36:33 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96
To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:01:18 PST."
             <199801170401.UAA16610@austin.polstra.com> 
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:34:41 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Thats not a problem . What is a problem is the materialization of 
dladdr 8)

If you can  go for for  that will be great!!


	Cheers,
	Amancio

> In article <199801122243.OAA01492@rah.star-gate.com>,
> Amancio Hasty  <hasty@rah.star-gate.com> wrote:
> 
> > If you can come up with a fix I will do my best to see that the fix
> > gets committed provided that the fix does not break the loader
> 
> I would appreciate it if you'd let me review it before you commit.
> 
> John
> --
>    John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
>    John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
>    "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth
> 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 20:45:24 1998
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To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "Louis A. Mamakos" <louie@TransSys.COM>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections 
References: <8325658A.005211D4.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:58:36 -0300."
             <8325658A.005211D4.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> 
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TCP doesn't know or care from chararacters or other datatypes; it simply
provides you a full-duplex reliable octet stream between two endpoints. 
You encode your characters, integers, floating point numbers, etc. as you
see fit.

This is similar to asking if the UNIX filesystem has provisions for 
storing "wide characters in files"; the FS doesn't care what's inside
it's files.

louie



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 22:02:29 1998
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From: Gary Roberts <gdr@ajax.che.curtin.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199801171509.PAA12735@ajax.che.curtin.edu.au>
Subject: 3c509 woes
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:09:28 +0000 ()
Reply-To: gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au
Organisation: Well Control Australia
Phone: +618 9266 7586
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I've had several machines running various OS versions from 2.1.x to 2.2.2
with various 3C509 cards including 3C509B.  I've never had a problem with
these cards before now.  At the moment, I'm desperately trying to set up
2.2.5R on a machine with a 3C509-TP card that has been running quite
happily on a Novell network.  I've now tried two different cards, neither
of which are recognised by the probe (ep0 not found at 0x300).  The cards
are not P&P and I've checked both with 3C5X9CFG.EXE under DOS.  I've
checked and rechecked the configuration of both.  Below is what the 3COM
utility says about each card.  Both cards are identified as 3C509-TP
Etherlink III 16 bit ISA NIC's.  I'm trying to run them in a 486DX2/66
very generic machine (just IDE, FD, SVGA and ethernet).

Property or Info               Card 1         Card 2
================               ======         ======
NIC type                       TP             TP-only
Date of manufacture            6/5/90         9/14/94
Division Code                  6              6
Product Code                   MA             AB
ASIC Revision                  1              1
I/O Base Address               300H           300H
IRQ                            10             10
Boot PROM                      Disabled       Disabled
Tranceiver                     On Board TP    On Board TP
Network Driver Optimisation    DOS Client     DOS Client

I've tried several boot disks (2.2.2R and 2.2.5R included) and all fail
to see either card even when the cards are reconfigured to different
I/O Addrs (0x320 for example).

Anyone got a clue about this???

Cheers,
-- 
Gary Roberts  (gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 23:05:47 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:51:25 +0600 (NS)
From: Max Khon <fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru>
To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb@FreeBSD.ORG>
cc: hackers@hub.freebsd.org
Subject: Re: SMC and 3COM ethernet cards
In-Reply-To: <199801161724.JAA29879@hub.freebsd.org>
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote:

> i have heard that the newest SMC and 3COM cards are very popular
> anyone working on a driver for these cards?
> 
> i understand that they ship with computers from Dell and other companies.

EtherPower II (SMC9432TX) driver is available at
http://iclub.nsu.ru/~semen/

/fjoe


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 23:15:26 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801170714.AAA26193@usr01.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:14:47 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > In general, setjmp()/longjmp() prevent all sorts of optimizations
> > from being used.
> 
> In the kernel?

Anywhere.  It means that register variables can't be reused.  Specifically,
I can't assume a variable in a register won't be reused.

The best place to see the problem is in the gcc treatment of the
comment "/* NOTREACHED*/".

> I can't see a way of using them in this environment.  I'm in the top
> half of a driver, where things are more like in user space.

You can't use them between top half and bottom half.  That's the point.


> > Finally, the purpose of these functions is to allow the throwing of
> > exceptions, and the kernel has it's own exception mechanisms.
> 
> Which are?  That was my question.

I thought I answered this... tsleep/wakeup.


> So what are kernel setjmp and longjmp there for?

Mostly, to annoy the compiler.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 23:18:12 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801170717.AAA26333@usr01.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:17:52 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> >> Which are?  That was my question.
> >
> > Using tsleep()/wakeup(), for one.  Any set of operations can be reduced.
> 
> OK.  I have a situation where I discover an error in the middle of a
> relatively complicated function.  I can see two possibilities to solve
> it:
> 
> 1.  Return -1 or some such, and test every function call within this
>     part of the code.  A lot of code.
> 2.  longjmp () out of the code.
> 
> Could you explain how to use tsleep()/wakeup() to perform this
> function?

Obtain intention mode locks before descending.  If you have a possible
conflict, then the intention mode lock wasn't granted, and this situtation
never arose.  8-).

Oh, yeah, I forgot, "transitive colsure" is a bad phrase.  8-(.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 23:19:30 1998
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From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 2nd call for comments: New option for newsyslog
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:

> 
> On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> > I'm added a '-m' option to newsyslog which will allow it to process log 
> ...
> > Does anyone have any comments, positive or negative, about this extension 
> > to newsyslog?  I'd like to get this reviewed and into 2.2.6.
> 
>   I submitted on the PRs on this issue...
> 
>   "-m" seems a bit specific.  What about weekly and daily options too?  If
> you do, newsyslog starts looking a lot like cron.  Using newsyslog to
> rotate non-syslog created log files is rather a stretch.  Using newsyslog
> for non-text "logs" is even more of stretch.

>   Perhaps wtmp rotation should just be done by cron right in the monthly
> script, where the accounting processing happens?

Valid points, but I don't see any reason not to use newsyslog for 
rotating a logfile.  newsyslog has the nice feature of rotating on size, 
which is irrelevant to the current problem, but it also gzips and rotates 
the gzipped files, which is nice.  Why create a bunch of Bourne shell 
commands, when an entry in newsyslog.conf will suffice?

As for the daily and weekly options, there are always 24 hours in a day
and 168 hours in a week, so fixed period rotations are correctly handled. 
Or are they?  In fact, rotating every 24 or 168 hours may not be what was
wanted, if the sysadmin really wants the files rotated as close as
possible to midnight with the week starting on Sunday. 

So maybe what is needed is a flag to newsyslog which tells it to process 
daily, weekly and monthly entries, and newsyslog itself can decide 
whether today is the first day of the week or month.

Danny


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 23:44:21 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
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On Sat, Jan 17, 1998 at 07:14:47AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote:
>> I can't see a way of using them in this environment.  I'm in the top
>> half of a driver, where things are more like in user space.
>
> You can't use them between top half and bottom half.  That's the point.

Why should that be the point?  You're making assumptions despite the
fact that I've indicated that this isn't the way I'm using them.

>>> Finally, the purpose of these functions is to allow the throwing of
>>> exceptions, and the kernel has it's own exception mechanisms.
>>
>> Which are?  That was my question.
>
> I thought I answered this... tsleep/wakeup.

You mentioned the names.  You didn't (and IMO can't) indicate how
they'd solve the problem I described.

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 16 23:55:45 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 2nd call for comments: New option for newsyslog
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On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm added a '-m' option to newsyslog which will allow it to process log 
> > ...
> > > Does anyone have any comments, positive or negative, about this extension 
> > > to newsyslog?  I'd like to get this reviewed and into 2.2.6.
> > 
> >   I submitted on the PRs on this issue...
> > 
> >   "-m" seems a bit specific.  What about weekly and daily options too?  If
> > you do, newsyslog starts looking a lot like cron.  Using newsyslog to
> > rotate non-syslog created log files is rather a stretch.  Using newsyslog
> > for non-text "logs" is even more of stretch.
> 
> >   Perhaps wtmp rotation should just be done by cron right in the monthly
> > script, where the accounting processing happens?
> 
> Valid points, but I don't see any reason not to use newsyslog for 
> rotating a logfile.  newsyslog has the nice feature of rotating on size, 
> which is irrelevant to the current problem, but it also gzips and rotates 
> the gzipped files, which is nice.  Why create a bunch of Bourne shell 
> commands, when an entry in newsyslog.conf will suffice?

  Well first all no _new_ Bourne shell scripts would be required, as we
already have the accounting script in /etc/periodic/monthly.  For other,
non-accounting stuff, you are still going to require special processing
that newsyslog will _not_ do (like a log analyzer).

  gzip is useless for user accounting, as you can't process the previous
months info if it is gzipped.  You need to rotate the file, process it,
then gzip it.  This is probably better handled by adding rotation to 
existing script.

> As for the daily and weekly options, there are always 24 hours in a day
> and 168 hours in a week, so fixed period rotations are correctly handled. 
> Or are they?  In fact, rotating every 24 or 168 hours may not be what was
> wanted, if the sysadmin really wants the files rotated as close as
> possible to midnight with the week starting on Sunday. 

  In some cases, accurate midnight rotation is critical.  

> So maybe what is needed is a flag to newsyslog which tells it to process 
> daily, weekly and monthly entries, and newsyslog itself can decide 
> whether today is the first day of the week or month.

  In which case we can call it cron2

  newsyslog works well when you need to rotate syslog logs, but if you
need to do some pre or post processing too (like the login accounting
problem), you might as well use cron.  You are going to have to create
lots of shell scripts for all of these pre and post processing jobs
anyhow, so you might as well let cron process it.

  I feel uncomfortable for using newsyslog for processing anything other
than syslog generated logs, especially considering how newsyslog HUPs
syslog whenever it moves a log file.

> Danny

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 00:11:47 1998
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	(message from Michael Hancock on Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:05:00 +0900
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Subject: Re: sharable static arrays?
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>> If these were auto variables, then strategy a would require both
>> stack space for the array at runtime, and text space for the
>> initial value in the executable, whereas strategy b should only
>> require one copy of its space in either text or data, I still
>> haven't determined which.  (This is still based on the assumption
>> that it is an error to modify a const variable through another
>> identifier.)
> What makes you think a const auto (strategy b) isn't on the stack?

That would probably be attributable to my making (evidently wrong)
assumptions about the language.  Please note my last comment.  I am
trying to, when I can semiimmediately see how, experiment with gdb to
find out what's going on.

Also note that I am, throughout this document, referring to auto const
arrays, not pointers.

> Storage for const defined variable isn't like a constant unless all of the
> following are met:

Are these three rules general for all const defined variables, or just
auto variables?

> 1) Is initialized.

Why would you have a const variable not initialized?  Under what
circumstances could it be later modified, without-- through explicit
cast or function call-- casting away the const?

> 2) Is defined const.
> 3) Is scoped as an extern or is defined static regardless of scope.
> Otherwise, treat const variables as read-only symbols and the storage
> class is possibly modifiable elsewhere.

The only way I can see that it would be modifiable within a deeper
frame would be by casting away the const, and within a shallower frame
the variable does not exist (unless it was a parameter, at which case
it may or may not still be a const).

> If this were not true then our string library and a lot of other
> code would have to be overhauled.  Have a look at the signatures of
> memcopy in our string library and also try other libraries such as
> glibc to see how const is used there.

Now by 'signatures', you mean that which can be inferred from
string.h, yes?  For that, we would be discussing parameters.

Over the entire declaration and definition of memcpy, we do not have
any const arrays ("const int foo[32767]"), only const pointers ("const
int *foo").  Although in many respects these are handled the same, in
the case of the const pointer, the compiler has no choice about where
to put the storage.

> news:comp.lang.c might be a good place to find some real language
> lawyers to explain this in more detail.

Actually, I was hoping to find an online copy of the ANSI document, so
I can read that instead of bugging y'all.  Does such a beast exist?

Thanks,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 00:14:14 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
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On Sat, Jan 17, 1998 at 07:17:52AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote:
>>>> Which are?  That was my question.
>>>
>>> Using tsleep()/wakeup(), for one.  Any set of operations can be reduced.
>>
>> OK.  I have a situation where I discover an error in the middle of a
>> relatively complicated function.  

As Mike Smith pointed out, 'function' is a poor choice of words.  I'm
in the top half of a driver (in process context *only*), checking
configuration information, which requires a number of nested function
calls.  It does not require communication with the bottom half of the
driver.

>> I can see two possibilities to solve it:
>>
>> 1.  Return -1 or some such, and test every function call within this
>>     part of the code.  A lot of code.
>> 2.  longjmp () out of the code.
>>
>> Could you explain how to use tsleep()/wakeup() to perform this
>> function?
>
> Obtain intention mode locks before descending.

Locks on what?  Descending where?  This is pure code.  With the
exception of having to read disk blocks at times, there is no
interruption.  Reading the disk blocks is not part of the problem,
though it would cause the process to be scheduled.

> If you have a possible conflict, then the intention mode lock wasn't
> granted, and this situtation never arose.  8-).

Which situation?

> Oh, yeah, I forgot, "transitive colsure" is a bad phrase.  8-(.

So is "quality Microsoft software".

Greg

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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:22:20 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> EtherPower II (SMC9432TX) driver is available at
> http://iclub.nsu.ru/~semen/

Excellent, I just purchased one of these for testing.  I'll look
at committing it to -current just as soon as I've verified its
operation.

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 08:30:11 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801171629.JAA23105@usr07.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:29:49 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980117181344.38652@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 17, 98 06:13:44 pm
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> Why should that be the point?  You're making assumptions despite the
> fact that I've indicated that this isn't the way I'm using them.

Look.  C doesn't have an exception handling mechanism.  Don't program
as if it did, and you will end up with better code.  It's silly to
act as if, just because you can unwind your stack, that you should
program as if you expect to need to do so.

> You mentioned the names.  You didn't (and IMO can't) indicate how
> they'd solve the problem I described.

Describe the problem in more detail.  I'll give you a more detailed answer.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 08:40:32 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
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Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:40:16 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980117181703.04492@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 17, 98 06:17:03 pm
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> As Mike Smith pointed out, 'function' is a poor choice of words.  I'm
> in the top half of a driver (in process context *only*), checking
> configuration information, which requires a number of nested function
> calls.  It does not require communication with the bottom half of the
> driver.

OK, you have an acyclic directed graph, any you are starting at the end
and traversing state in one direction on the edge:

      |
      v
      o
       \  <- can unwind this state transition via 'return'
         o
          \ <- have to unwind this state transition via 'longjmp'
           o

Because you are doing this evil thing, you need to unwind your stack state.

You need to reorder your function call graph so that there is only a
depth of one so you can unwind state using a return value from the
function:

         |
         v
         o
        / \ <- can unwind both these state transitions via 'return'
       o   o

> >> Could you explain how to use tsleep()/wakeup() to perform this
> >> function?
> >
> > Obtain intention mode locks before descending.
> 
> Locks on what?  Descending where?  This is pure code.  With the
> exception of having to read disk blocks at times, there is no
> interruption.  Reading the disk blocks is not part of the problem,
> though it would cause the process to be scheduled.

Locks on the state you intend to change.  If you require that every state
you will change must be possible to change to the new state before you
attempt the first state-change, then you will never encounter an
exception.  An exception occurs when an action you are attempting
fails.  If you use locks to ensure it can never fail, then you don't
have to deal with it failing.

If you never *encounter* an exception, you will never need to *handle*
an exception.

> > If you have a possible conflict, then the intention mode lock wasn't
> > granted, and this situtation never arose.  8-).
> 
> Which situation?

The situation where you needed to throw an exception.

					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 09:23:34 1998
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To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
Cc: TOKER ONUR <onur@dpc.kfupm.edu.sa>, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: several networking questions ...
References: <199712262109.AAA52009@dpc107.dpc.kfupm.edu.sa> <19971227114414.06459@lemis.com>
From: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>
Date: 17 Jan 1998 18:22:23 +0100
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* Greg Lehey
| > (2) If I have two 56K modems, and two telephone lines, can I dial my ISP
| > using both telehone lines and achieve 112Kb/s data transfer rate for ftp
| > or http connections ? 
| 
| Maybe.
| 
| > If yes how ?
| 
| You'll need mpd (multi-line ppp).  The problem is, so will your ISP.
| You'll need to find one who's also running FreeBSD, and who is
| prepared to do this.

(A little late)  This is actually not correct.  mpd uses the standard
multilink protocols, so it should work towards any ISP that offer
multilink.  I certainly know we offer it, even though we don't use
FreeBSD for that side of our business (it is much more convenient to
just buy a box, run a PRI and a network line into it, and have it work 
:-)

And mpd works with us :-)

Eivind.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 10:42:28 1998
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199801171840.QAA16473@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: 2nd call for comments: New option for newsyslog
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980116232602.7843A-100000@misery.sdf.com> from Tom at "Jan 16, 98 11:39:42 pm"
To: tom@sdf.com (Tom)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:40:45 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: danny@panda.hilink.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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#define quoting(Tom)
// On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote:
// > On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:
// > > On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote:
// > > > I'm added a '-m' option to newsyslog which will allow it to process log 
// > > ...
// > > > Does anyone have any comments, positive or negative, about this extension 
// > > > to newsyslog?  I'd like to get this reviewed and into 2.2.6.
// > > 
// > >   I submitted on the PRs on this issue...

I've also submitted one PR about this problem, so I think I may comment 
a little here.

// > >   "-m" seems a bit specific.  What about weekly and daily options too?  If
// > > you do, newsyslog starts looking a lot like cron.  Using newsyslog to
// > > rotate non-syslog created log files is rather a stretch.  Using newsyslog
// > > for non-text "logs" is even more of stretch.
// > 
// > >   Perhaps wtmp rotation should just be done by cron right in the monthly
// > > script, where the accounting processing happens?
// > 
// > Valid points, but I don't see any reason not to use newsyslog for 
// > rotating a logfile.  newsyslog has the nice feature of rotating on size, 
// > which is irrelevant to the current problem, but it also gzips and rotates 
// > the gzipped files, which is nice.  Why create a bunch of Bourne shell 
// > commands, when an entry in newsyslog.conf will suffice?

Maybe it would be better to make a generic shell script to do file
rotation.  It would need some flags, like gzip compression needed,
etc.  It could be used by user scripts also.  I have some that would
be much simpler with such program available.

//   Well first all no _new_ Bourne shell scripts would be required, as we
// already have the accounting script in /etc/periodic/monthly.  For other,
// non-accounting stuff, you are still going to require special processing
// that newsyslog will _not_ do (like a log analyzer).

I think newsyslog needs an improvement, but not this one proposed by
Daniel.  newsyslog could have an extra parameter specifying a progrma
to run with the log file as argument.  This program would do something
after the log file is roteated, but before it's compressed.  If not
specified, use the default kill -HUP syslogd.

But this would not solve the wtmp problem.  It's more reasonable to 
get the wtmp logs once a month, and I must agree with Tom that this
kind of behaviour is cron's task, not newsyslog task.

The new newsyslog behaviour would be useful for squid logs, for example.

//   gzip is useless for user accounting, as you can't process the previous
// months info if it is gzipped.  You need to rotate the file, process it,
// then gzip it.  This is probably better handled by adding rotation to 
// existing script.

Is it easy to add libz support to last(1) and who(1) ?  This would help
administrators back analyse these logs.

// > As for the daily and weekly options, there are always 24 hours in a day
// > and 168 hours in a week, so fixed period rotations are correctly handled. 
// > Or are they?  In fact, rotating every 24 or 168 hours may not be what was
// > wanted, if the sysadmin really wants the files rotated as close as
// > possible to midnight with the week starting on Sunday. 
// 
//   In some cases, accurate midnight rotation is critical.  

Agree.  Accounting for billing, for example.

//   newsyslog works well when you need to rotate syslog logs, but if you
// need to do some pre or post processing too (like the login accounting
// problem), you might as well use cron.  You are going to have to create
// lots of shell scripts for all of these pre and post processing jobs
// anyhow, so you might as well let cron process it.
//
//   I feel uncomfortable for using newsyslog for processing anything other
// than syslog generated logs, especially considering how newsyslog HUPs
// syslog whenever it moves a log file.

Would the modification I proposed above satisfy you ?

					Jonny

--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis			jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698				jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro	UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2  83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 11:16:24 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199801171747.SAA22253@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: Linux rvplayer and not-implemented ioctl
To: didier@omnix.net (Didier Derny)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:47:43 +0100 (MET)
Cc: witr@rwwa.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980115132654.18374A-100000@omnix.net> from "Didier Derny" at Jan 15, 98 01:30:44 pm
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Sorry for jumping in a bit late on the subject...

I did some tests mid november with the linux rvplayer 5.0b2 and my
audio driver. The(partial) fix for the missing ioctl is already in the
misc/ subdirectory of my driver, and I have attached it below (the
files are in /sys/i386/linux).

It works for me (under 2.2.1 and with my driver) -- no core dumps or
system freezes etc.


After some discussion with the mpegtv author, who had similar
problems of synchronizing audio and video (and a much better
solution!), I believe that the Realaudio guys used the wrong ioctl
(SNDCTL_DSP_GETOPTR) to trace the amount of data left to play, and
possibly also rely on some peculiarity of the OSS implementation.

I had to implement a hack in SNDCTL_DSP_GETOPTR (the line marked with
XXX below) which fools the application letting it believe that the
driver is slightly ahead of what it really is. Otherwise, you don't get
smooth video. I forget the details, but if you look in the multimedia
archives around mid november you should find some posting on the
subject. You can play with the number to add and see which one suits
better your needs. Given this is a module, doing tests is not so
difficult.

	Cheers
	Luigi

--- linux.h.orig	Tue Dec  3 16:47:28 1996
+++ linux.h	Mon Nov 17 00:05:29 1997
@@ -491,6 +491,9 @@
 #define LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETOSPACE	0x500C
 #define LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETISPACE	0x500D
 #define LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_NONBLOCK	0x500E
+#define LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETCAPS	0x500F
+#define LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETIPTR        0x5011
+#define LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETOPTR        0x5012
 #define LINUX_SOUND_MIXER_WRITE_VOLUME	0x4d00
 #define LINUX_SOUND_MIXER_WRITE_BASS	0x4d01
 #define LINUX_SOUND_MIXER_WRITE_TREBLE	0x4d02
--- linux_ioctl.c.orig	Sat Nov  9 22:10:15 1996
+++ linux_ioctl.c	Mon Nov 17 10:20:14 1997
@@ -691,6 +691,26 @@
 	args->cmd = SNDCTL_DSP_NONBLOCK;
 	return ioctl(p, (struct ioctl_args *)args, retval);
 
+    case LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETCAPS:
+	args->cmd = SNDCTL_DSP_GETCAPS;
+	return ioctl(p, (struct ioctl_args *)args, retval);
+
+    case LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETIPTR:
+	args->cmd = SNDCTL_DSP_GETIPTR;
+	return ioctl(p, (struct ioctl_args *)args, retval);
+
+    case LINUX_SNDCTL_DSP_GETOPTR:
+	args->cmd = SNDCTL_DSP_GETOPTR;
+	{ int a= ioctl(p, (struct ioctl_args *)args, retval);
+	struct count_info *p = (struct count_info *)(args->arg);
+       p->bytes += 512 ; /* XXX */
+#if 1
+	uprintf("GETOPTR bytes %d blk %d ptr %d\n",
+		p->bytes, p->blocks, p->ptr);
+#endif
+	return a;
+	}
+
     case LINUX_SOUND_MIXER_WRITE_VOLUME:
 	args->cmd = SOUND_MIXER_WRITE_VOLUME;
 	return ioctl(p, (struct ioctl_args *)args, retval);


-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 12:38:56 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:38:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Traina <pst@juniper.net>
Message-Id: <199801172038.MAA24817@red.juniper.net>
To: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: isdisk() kludge in kernel
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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I was looking at isdisk and wanted to hurl chunks.

This is used by spec_open to determine if we should be allowed to open a
disk device when securelevel >= 1.

I'd like to propose changing spec_open to simply NEVER allowing the open of
a block device, or character device, if a character device has a block
device associated with it and eliminate isdisk() in kern_conf entirely.

Objections?  (p.s. I found this in 2.2.5, haven't checked 3.0 yet to see if
it was fixed, if it was, sorry for bothering you).

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 12:50:43 1998
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To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:34:41 PST."
    <199801170434.UAA05162@rah.star-gate.com> 
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:50:21 -0800
From: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
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> Thats not a problem . What is a problem is the materialization of
> dladdr 8)

I worked on it last August at the request of Jeffrey Hsu.  I didn't
commit it because I wasn't happy with it, and because Jeffrey found
a work-around so that he didn't need it.  I thought I had lost the
changes when I shuffled some disks around recently.  But today I found
them again.

It all works except that it doesn't know the pathname of the main
program.  If the address being queried is in a shared library, then it
knows the path.

If you will come up with (or suggest) a solution to finding the
pathname of the main program, then I will add that into my version and
commit it.  And puhleeeze, don't suggest the hack of searching each of
the directories in $PATH for argv[0].

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 13:08:58 1998
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From: John Birrell <jb@cimlogic.com.au>
Message-Id: <199801172114.IAA15682@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
In-Reply-To: <199801172050.MAA07904@austin.polstra.com> from John Polstra at "Jan 17, 98 12:50:21 pm"
To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:14:22 +1100 (EST)
Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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John Polstra wrote:
> If you will come up with (or suggest) a solution to finding the
> pathname of the main program, then I will add that into my version and
> commit it.  And puhleeeze, don't suggest the hack of searching each of
> the directories in $PATH for argv[0].

What about adding some code to the namei() interface and set aside a
copy of the path in execve() (in kern_exec.c)?

Regards,

-- 
John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 14:27:46 1998
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To: John Birrell <jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
cc: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:14:22 +1100."
             <199801172114.IAA15682@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:27:17 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Not sure that I understand whats going on . when the kernel loads
an image it has the full path so the question now is where do
we save the path -- the most intuitive place is the proc 
structure.

	Cheers,
	Amancio


> John Polstra wrote:
> > If you will come up with (or suggest) a solution to finding the
> > pathname of the main program, then I will add that into my version and
> > commit it.  And puhleeeze, don't suggest the hack of searching each of
> > the directories in $PATH for argv[0].
> 
> What about adding some code to the namei() interface and set aside a
> copy of the path in execve() (in kern_exec.c)?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
> CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137
> 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 14:32:05 1998
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From: John Birrell <jb@cimlogic.com.au>
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Subject: Re: dladdr hax
In-Reply-To: <199801172227.OAA06497@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Jan 17, 98 02:27:17 pm"
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:37:42 +1100 (EST)
Cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Amancio Hasty wrote:
> Not sure that I understand whats going on . when the kernel loads
> an image it has the full path so the question now is where do
> we save the path -- the most intuitive place is the proc 
> structure.

I would have thought so too, but I'm not a kernel hacker. 8-)

I've got applications that would benefit from being able to find out
where they were executed from.

Regards,

-- 
John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 17 14:39:56 1998
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To: John Birrell <jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:37:42 +1100."
             <199801172237.JAA15804@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> 
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Blush,

Just had a moment of nostalgia --- endless bug fixes to 386bsd-0.0's
kern_exec.c and this issue still felt to the crack 8)


	Cheers,
	Amancio

> Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > Not sure that I understand whats going on . when the kernel loads
> > an image it has the full path so the question now is where do
> > we save the path -- the most intuitive place is the proc 
> > structure.
> 
> I would have thought so too, but I'm not a kernel hacker. 8-)
> 
> I've got applications that would benefit from being able to find out
> where they were executed from.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
> CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137
> 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 02:21:19 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:29:57 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199801180329.OAA13387@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@FreeBSD.ORG, pst@juniper.net
Subject: Re: isdisk() kludge in kernel
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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>I was looking at isdisk and wanted to hurl chunks.
>
>This is used by spec_open to determine if we should be allowed to open a
>disk device when securelevel >= 1.

It isn't even used in -current.

>I'd like to propose changing spec_open to simply NEVER allowing the open of
>a block device, or character device, if a character device has a block
>device associated with it and eliminate isdisk() in kern_conf entirely.

This would break at least backups to SCSI tape devices, since st has both
block and character devices, but tapes aren't disks.  Perhaps the broken
version is correct - isdisk() really means isasecurityholeifmountable().

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 02:28:41 1998
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From: Ulf Zimmermann <ulf@Alameda.net>
Message-Id: <199801172350.PAA17640@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net>
Subject: rsync to mirror www.freebsd.org ?
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:50:16 -0800 (PST)
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I am still getting errors on rsync. Can someone look into it ?

Ulf.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936
Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net  | Fax#: 510-521-5073

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 02:31:22 1998
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Subject: Re: EIDE Tape?
In-Reply-To: <199801160015.RAA20757@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Jan 15, 98 05:15:02 pm"
To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:07:33 +0100 (MET)
Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Søren Schmidt <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
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In reply to Warner Losh who wrote:
> In message <199801152251.XAA15195@sos.freebsd.dk> S ren Schmidt writes:
> : Nope, we don't have support for EIDE tapes (yet).
> : When I get a little time plus some spare $ thats not spent better
> : someplace else, I'll write the driver (goes into the atapi subsystem).
> 
> If I sent you a tape, would that help any?

Yep, but I'm buzy as hell right now (rebuilding our kitchen, man's got to
eat you know :)), but that should be over with in about 2 weeks...
Does that mean you would donate a drive to the FreeBSD Atapi Project ??

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 02:47:51 1998
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To: John Birrell <jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:37:42 +1100."
             <199801172237.JAA15804@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:39:06 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Blush,

Just had a moment of nostalgia --- endless bug fixes to 386bsd-0.0's
kern_exec.c and this issue still felt to the crack 8)


	Cheers,
	Amancio

> Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > Not sure that I understand whats going on . when the kernel loads
> > an image it has the full path so the question now is where do
> > we save the path -- the most intuitive place is the proc 
> > structure.
> 
> I would have thought so too, but I'm not a kernel hacker. 8-)
> 
> I've got applications that would benefit from being able to find out
> where they were executed from.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
> CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137
> 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:07:52 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:35:38 -0800
From: Chris Toshok <toshok@netscape.com>
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I've been using freebsd for my work (on the navigator) for some time,
and am having a problem with 2.2.5.

I've upped every conceivable limit that I run across, and I still get 

gdb: virtual memory exhausted: can't allocate 4072 bytes.

when I try to debug netscape.  The gdb process never gets above 32 megs,
and the netscape executable doesn't grow to more than 16 megs.

The machine has way more than enough to handle this -- 128 megs
physical, and 400 megs of swap.

Here's my login.conf entry:

default:\
        :cputime=infinity:\
        :datasize=256M:\
        :stacksize=256M:\
        :memorylocked=256M:\
        :memoryuse=256M:\
        :filesize=infinity:\
        :coredumpsize=infinity:\
        :maxproc=infinity:\
        :openfiles=infinity:\
        :priority=0:\
        :requirehome@:\
        :umask=022:\
        :tc=auth-defaults:

The kernel was compiled with:

options         "MAXDSIZ=(512*1024*1024)"
options         "DFLDSIZ=(512*1024*1024)"

Anyone have a clue?  It's getting extremely frustrating debugging with
printfs.

Chris

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:09:53 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801180653.XAA07823@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 06:53:04 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801172050.MAA07904@austin.polstra.com> from "John Polstra" at Jan 17, 98 12:50:21 pm
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> If you will come up with (or suggest) a solution to finding the
> pathname of the main program, then I will add that into my version and
> commit it.  And puhleeeze, don't suggest the hack of searching each of
> the directories in $PATH for argv[0].

To be bug-compatible with Solaris, you should simply return argv[0]
*witjout* trying to find it in your PATH.  Yes, this is a kludge.

My initial reaction was to return the name of the file from the
procfs; this fails to satify the java use of the path to determine
a location relative to the java binary (java is why dladdr is
needed, at least initially.  Yes, you can do some neat stuff with
it on top of that, but that's not the point).

The Solaris java kldge is to assume the binary is run via absolute
path from a shell script run by a shell that passes an unmodified
argv[ 0] (ie: doesn't rewrite it or truncate to the terminal component).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:10:33 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:39:04 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199801181139.WAA26672@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: bde@zeta.org.au, julian@whistle.com
Subject: Re: isdisk() kludge in kernel
Cc: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, pst@juniper.net
Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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>st does not have block devices
>
>On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Bruce Evans wrote:
>> This would break at least backups to SCSI tape devices, since st has both
>> block and character devices, but tapes aren't disks.  Perhaps the broken
>> version is correct - isdisk() really means isasecurityholeifmountable().

Yes it does.  They aren't created by MAKEDEV, and probably don't work,
but st.c has a bdevsw entry.

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:13:29 1998
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From: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
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To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
Cc: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>, hsu@FreeBSD.ORG,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-Reply-To: <199801172050.MAA07904@austin.polstra.com>
References: <199801170434.UAA05162@rah.star-gate.com>
	<199801172050.MAA07904@austin.polstra.com>
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> > Thats not a problem . What is a problem is the materialization of
> > dladdr 8)
> 
> I worked on it last August at the request of Jeffrey Hsu.  I didn't
> commit it because I wasn't happy with it, and because Jeffrey found
> a work-around so that he didn't need it.

Any chance he might share that work-around with us? :)


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:13:30 1998
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From: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
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To: "Peter Korsten" <pkorsten@XS4All.nl>
Cc: <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card
In-Reply-To: <199801122155.WAA13440@smtp2.xs4all.nl>
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> I have a laptop with a Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card. Does anybody
> know whether there are (attempts to) drivers for either FreeBSD, other BSD's
> or perhaps Linux? And perhaps some leads to port such a driver?

Nope, Xircom doesn't (didn't?) give out programming information last I
heard.



Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:18:42 1998
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From: Ulf Zimmermann <ulf@Alameda.net>
Message-Id: <199801172350.PAA17640@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net>
Subject: rsync to mirror www.freebsd.org ?
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:50:16 -0800 (PST)
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I am still getting errors on rsync. Can someone look into it ?

Ulf.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936
Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net  | Fax#: 510-521-5073

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:22:01 1998
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To: Paul Traina <pst@juniper.net>
cc: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: isdisk() kludge in kernel 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:38:09 PST."
             <199801172038.MAA24817@red.juniper.net> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
Reply-To: dg@root.com
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:24:46 -0800
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>I was looking at isdisk and wanted to hurl chunks.
>
>This is used by spec_open to determine if we should be allowed to open a
>disk device when securelevel >= 1.
>
>I'd like to propose changing spec_open to simply NEVER allowing the open of
>a block device, or character device, if a character device has a block
>device associated with it and eliminate isdisk() in kern_conf entirely.
>
>Objections?  (p.s. I found this in 2.2.5, haven't checked 3.0 yet to see if
>it was fixed, if it was, sorry for bothering you).

   I must be too tired or something: the above makes little sense to me. We
have block and character devices for disks for a reason. They are mutually
exclusive and both are required for the system to work.

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:30:07 1998
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Subject: Re: EIDE Tape?
In-Reply-To: <199801160015.RAA20757@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Jan 15, 98 05:15:02 pm"
To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:07:33 +0100 (MET)
Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Søren Schmidt <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
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In reply to Warner Losh who wrote:
> In message <199801152251.XAA15195@sos.freebsd.dk> S ren Schmidt writes:
> : Nope, we don't have support for EIDE tapes (yet).
> : When I get a little time plus some spare $ thats not spent better
> : someplace else, I'll write the driver (goes into the atapi subsystem).
> 
> If I sent you a tape, would that help any?

Yep, but I'm buzy as hell right now (rebuilding our kitchen, man's got to
eat you know :)), but that should be over with in about 2 weeks...
Does that mean you would donate a drive to the FreeBSD Atapi Project ??

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:33:21 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801180655.XAA07872@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
To: jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (John Birrell)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 06:55:08 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: jdp@polstra.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801172114.IAA15682@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> from "John Birrell" at Jan 18, 98 08:14:22 am
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> > If you will come up with (or suggest) a solution to finding the
> > pathname of the main program, then I will add that into my version and
> > commit it.  And puhleeeze, don't suggest the hack of searching each of
> > the directories in $PATH for argv[0].
> 
> What about adding some code to the namei() interface and set aside a
> copy of the path in execve() (in kern_exec.c)?

Symlinks are handled with a buffer rewrite and a return; this is sort of
a kludge on mutual recursion.  Symlinks rooted to root instead of
relatively rooted would work for this.

Really, you would need better namei() code for this; probably a recursive
lookup instead of the kludged buffer/stack mutual recursion currently in
the code.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:33:35 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801180658.XAA07919@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 06:58:28 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au, jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801172227.OAA06497@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Jan 17, 98 02:27:17 pm
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> Not sure that I understand whats going on . when the kernel loads
> an image it has the full path so the question now is where do
> we save the path -- the most intuitive place is the proc 
> structure.

In the case of a symlink, where the link points to a relative path
and the relative path is not the terminal component, the kernel does
*not* ever have the full path all at once.

The question you have to ask is "is it relative to the link path or
relative to the real path from the root that I want to return?".

This is relevent because you may be obscuring the location of the
binary, and you don't want a user to be able to discern this
from running the thing.

I think argv[ 0] is the best bet.  It also is compatible with Solaris,
and it's what we'll need for a Solaris execution class in any case.  Might
as well not have two implementations.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:37:23 1998
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CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980116223422.7031A-100000@kalypso.cybercom.net> (message from The Classiest Man Alive on Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:38:02 -0500 (EST))
Subject: Re: what does MMX mean?
From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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 * : The MMX registers are aliases of regular FP registers.  (They did not
 * : want to add any new registers or flags -- so the OS doesn't need to be
 * : aware of new MMX chips and the applications can still use them.)  So
 * : it won't help if you want to do a lot of FP operations intermixed with
 * : MMX operations.
 * 
 * Is this true for the Pentium II as well?

I believe so.  The Intel designer who gave a talk here awhile ago said
they didn't want old operating systems to break because of new chips
and new applications.

What this means is that since OS's only save/restore the registers
it knows about upon a context switch, you can't add a new register
without having the OS support it explicitly.

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:38:38 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:42:50 -0500
From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" <k.#nojunk#keithley@opengroup.org>
Organization: The Open Group
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Subject: ld falls down linking wine980104
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(I've (re)subscribed to this list, but I haven't received an
acknowledgement yet, so would appreciate it if you'd cc me at
kaleb@opengroup.org if you reply.)

Subject sort of says it all. I've got 100+ meg of swap and ld grows
(watched with top) to ~30 meg before it exits with an "unable to
allocate memory" error.

This is a long-standing problem actually -- in the past whenever I try
to link a fully-debuggable X server or statically link an X program with
a fully debuggable Xlib I encounter the same problem; although it's not
uncommon in this case for ld to grow to 80+ meg (all available memory)
before encountering the error.

(Dunno why the wine link craps out at 30 meg, unless it tries to
allocate something really huge and exits more quickly than top updates.)

I don't suppose anyone would be surprised that the idea of debugging a
linkedit of a huge program to find this bug is, shall we say, daunting.
That not withstanding I have tried some semi-obvious things:

 - I've built a debuggable ld and run it in gdb with a breakpoint set
   in xmalloc where it spits out the "uhable to allocate memory"
   message. A `where` show that the stack is scrambled. (Why it's
   scrambled is probably the answer to the question.)

 - I've changed all the alloca() calls to xmalloc+free to try to
   move the problem or at least reduce the likelihood of scrambling
   the stack with an inadvertant buffer overflow. That didn't change
   anything.

 - I've added extra padding to all the mallocs. That didn't change
   anything.

 - I've looked at the 2.2.5 and 3.0-SNAP ld sources, which are all
   unchanged from my system's 2.2.2R sources.

 - In a desperation move of sorts, even knowing beforehand that it
   wasn't going to work, I still tried the GNU binutils 2.8.1 ld built
   for i386-*-aout, just to see what it would do (which is nothing.) 
   I was also hoping that there might be enough latent similarity in 
   the sources that I might be able to find something by looking at
   source diffs, but that was a hopeless idea too.

The default wine build uses -g in its CFLAGS by default. I'm rebuilding
now to see if it'll link when built without -g. Naturally things like
the X servers link okay when they're not built fully debuggable, and
they link okay too when a few modules are compiled with debugging, so I
sort of expect wine will link too without -g.

Possibly somebody who's intimately familiar with ld internals might be
able to solve this in a twinkling of an eye?

The rebuild has just completed and it links fine when built without -g.

--

Kaleb S. KEITHLEY

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:44:27 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801180712.AAA08255@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Why no sys/setjmp.h?
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 07:12:56 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980118101453.00324@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 18, 98 10:14:53 am
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> > Because you are doing this evil thing, you need to unwind your stack
> > state.
> 
> What's evil about this thing?

"you need to unwind your stack state".

[ ... ]

> In other words, adapt my algorithm to the subset of functionality
> which you consider non-evil, at the expense of readability and
> performance.  Yes, of course I considered this alternative.

Some of us think setjmp/longjmp reduce readability.

You shouldn't need to reduce performance, and you should not need to
rewrite your algorithm significantly.  If you have something you are
going to need three functions down, you make sure that it's there
before you start on your way three functions down.  Theis effective.y
unrolls the graph without significantly changing the code.  There is
one additional question, for each scarcity, that you ask up front.
The answer determines whether you start your three calls down in
the first place.  You ask this question the same place you would
ask the question about the return value of setjmp().

The setjmp/longjmp approach is like shooting at targets without knowing
that the target is in the right place until you don't hit it, then
turning back time so the bullet is back in the gun.

You *will* take a performance hit each time you longjmp: you will take
the hit of having to do everything you did to get three functions down
all over again next time.

[ ... ]

> I think you're assuming that more than one process is involved.  I
> don't know why.

I don't know why you think I am assuming that.  You have an intention to
do something that you don't know if you can do or not until after it's
too late.  It became too late when you decided to do the test three functions
down, instead of in the top function.

All intention mode locing does is, effectively, virtually move all of
the tests you will need to pass or longjmp about, up front, to the top of
the call graph.

For example, if you needed an mbuf, and the reason you were longjmp'ing
was you tried to allocate one NOWAIT, and the allocation failed because
it would have blocked, then the correct thing to do is to allocate the
buffer at the top to be potentially used later.  This would mean that
your driver would check to see if it was allocated, and if it had been
used previously, then it would allocate another one; if the allocation
failed, then you would be where you would have been with your longjmp.
Only you never had to call setjmp/longjmp to get there.  Your allocation
would occur one ahead of your use.  A side effect would be that your
driver would always have an MBUF on hand almost all the time (except
when it was used before you reentered the top where it would be allocated
again).

Effectively, you have intention mode locked an mbuf.  You *intend* to use
it, but you are *not* using it yet.


> >> Which situation?
> >
> > The situation where you needed to throw an exception.
> 
> Can you apply this thread to your diagrams above?

I think I just did... ;-).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:50:26 1998
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To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:48:06 PST."
             <199801180248.SAA09258@austin.polstra.com> 
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:04:24 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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> In article <199801172227.OAA06497@rah.star-gate.com>,
> Amancio Hasty  <hasty@rah.star-gate.com> wrote:
> > Not sure that I understand whats going on . when the kernel loads
> > an image it has the full path
> 
> If you execute a program by typing something like "./foo" then the
> kernel only has a relative path.  So you also have to know the
> pathname of the working directory at the time of the exec.
> 
> > we save the path -- the most intuitive place is the proc 
> > structure.
> 
> I don't purport to speak for David Greenman, but I would guess that
> anything like this that slowed down every exec might not make him
> too happy.  An acceptable solution should have virtually zero impact
> except on processes that actually call dladdr.  I think that's
> probably do-able.  One idea (not well thought through, so it might
> not work) would be to have the kernel save pointers to the vnode of
> the executable and the vnode of the directory that contained it at
> exec time.  I think that from those two things it should be possible
> to compute a full pathname later on.  Of course, it would fail if
> somebody (re)moved the executable file after it was already running,
> but so would just about any approach.
> 

Thats an interesting approach so what happens to a vnode of a running
executable when is mark for delete? I kind doubt that the vnode goes 
away while the image is still executing 8)

	Regards,
	Amancio




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:50:41 1998
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To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: elf and -current
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:43:43 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Hi,

I am trying to build the elf tool chain in 3.0 -current on my test box.
3.0 -current is the October 6 Snapshot.

Also has anyone managed to build the elf tool-chain with gcc-2.8?
with gcc-2.8 the dynamic loader bombs out 

I sprinkle some prints in rtld.c :

 ~hasty/elfkit/tests/hello
a 
ee 
digest dynamic tag  16 
digest dynamic tag  15 
digest dynamic tag  4 
digest dynamic tag  5 
digest dynamic tag  6 
digest dynamic tag  10 
digest dynamic tag  11 
digest dynamic tag  17 
digest dynamic tag  18 
digest dynamic tag  19 
digest dynamic tag  22 
text rel 
c 
e 
oops: 825
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

 digest_dynamic(&obj_rtld);
    xprintf("c \n");
    assert(obj_rtld.needed == NULL);
    xprintf("e \n");
    assert(!obj_rtld.textrel);   <<< this is where it dies
    xprintf("elast \n");
    

---- 

Attempt to build native elf cc....


# setenv BINFORMAT elf
# make
===> cc_tools
echo '#include "i386/freebsd-elf.h"' > tm.h
echo '#include "i386/xm-freebsd.h"'  > config.h
echo '#include "i386/xm-freebsd.h"'  > hconfig.h
echo '#include "i386/xm-freebsd.h"'  > tconfig.h
echo '#include "cp/lang-options.h"'  > options.h
echo '#include "cp/lang-specs.h"'    > specs.h
echo '#include "f2c-specs.h"'        >> specs.h
Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_tools
===> cc_int
Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int
===> cpp
Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cpp
===> cc1
Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc1
===> cc
Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc
===> cc1obj
Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc1obj
===> cc1plus
Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc1plus
===> c++
Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/c++
===> f77
Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/f77
===> libgcc
Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libg
cc
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cc/cc -B/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cc1
/ -B/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cpp/ -c -O -pipe -DFREEBSD_ELF 
-I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../../../../contrib/gcc 
-I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../../../../contrib/gcc/config 
-DFREEBSD_NATIVE -DDEFAULT_TARGET_VERSION=\"2.7.2.1\" 
-DDEFAULT_TARGET_MACHINE=\"i386-unknown-freebsdelf\" 
-I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cc_tools -DL_divdi3 -o _divdi3.o 
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../../../../contrib/gcc/libgcc2.c
*unknown*: Assembler messages:
*unknown*:0: Warning: /usr/bin/as: I don't understand 'Q' flag.
*unknown*:0: Warning: /usr/bin/as: I don't understand 'y' flag.
{standard input}:4: Error: Unknown pseudo-op:  `.section'
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1


	Tnks,
	Amancio



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:51:28 1998
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To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
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References: <199801172227.OAA06497@rah.star-gate.com>
Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:48:06 -0800
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In article <199801172227.OAA06497@rah.star-gate.com>,
Amancio Hasty  <hasty@rah.star-gate.com> wrote:
> Not sure that I understand whats going on . when the kernel loads
> an image it has the full path

If you execute a program by typing something like "./foo" then the
kernel only has a relative path.  So you also have to know the
pathname of the working directory at the time of the exec.

> we save the path -- the most intuitive place is the proc 
> structure.

I don't purport to speak for David Greenman, but I would guess that
anything like this that slowed down every exec might not make him
too happy.  An acceptable solution should have virtually zero impact
except on processes that actually call dladdr.  I think that's
probably do-able.  One idea (not well thought through, so it might
not work) would be to have the kernel save pointers to the vnode of
the executable and the vnode of the directory that contained it at
exec time.  I think that from those two things it should be possible
to compute a full pathname later on.  Of course, it would fail if
somebody (re)moved the executable file after it was already running,
but so would just about any approach.

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 05:58:19 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:22:05 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 2nd call for comments: New option for newsyslog
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On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Marc Slemko wrote:

> You need a generic way of allowing a HUP to be sent to any process, eg. by
> specifying the PID file.

Sounds good.
 
> You need a way to only gzip the log-before-the-just-rotated one, not the
> just-rotated one. This is because some programs don't immediately close
> logfiles on HUP, but can take a minute or two.

Good point, thanks.
 
> You need a way to tell it to name files based on date (eg. foo.19980117)
> instead of number; by number sucks for incremental backups because they
> are moved every day.

I knew this one, and I have a /bin/sh rollover prog which names files
by dayname, monthname or weeknumber; I'll turn it into C.
 
> You need a way to have it specify hard times instead of every x hours.

As Tom pointed out, perhaps that should just be done with cron.
 
> You need the ability to add arbitrary pre and post rotation commands.

I was thinking about this, too, but perhaps the rotator should just be 
called from the /bin/sh script which includes the pre and post rotation 
commands.  It seems simpler that way.
 
> I find logrotate unusable for real log rotations because of these missing
> features, but find it very silly to have to write my own stuff all the
> time (or use another package) to do it.  Unfortunately, extra features
> don't fit too well with the config file format.

logrotate?  I haven't met logrotate.

Thanks for the comments,

Danny

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 06:14:11 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:46:15 +0100
From: Gianmarco Giovannelli <gmarco@giovannelli.it>
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Subject: Quake(2) : info & questions
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Hi, 
I'd like to know something about quake and quake2:

1) Is there anyone that is succeding in hearing audio and sound with
Quake I ?
I am playing with the qwcl version 2.1 (linux), but I am not able to
hear anything with the following drivers : Luigi's snd code, ossFreeBSD,
the standard ones . I am using a awe 64 which works with other programs
without problems.

2) Can someone send me the url where I can find the help page to run
quake2 on FreeBSD -current ? Is there a port to do it somewhere ?




-- 

Regards...

Gianmarco
"Unix expert since yesterday"

http://www2.masternet.it

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 06:29:32 1998
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To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl
CC: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199801161738.SAA13832@yedi.iaf.nl> (message from Wilko Bulte on Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:38:45 +0100 (MET))
Subject: Re: experiences with Motorola Bitsurfr ISDN TA
From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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Hackers, listen to this guy.

 * If I get it working I'll write up a story 'bout it for the handbook.

You're the model citizen of the FreeBSD world, Wilko!  If everyone
shared just a little bit of their experience, nobody will be able to
blame FreeBSD for lacking documentation! :)

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 06:52:06 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:40:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
cc: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 2nd call for comments: New option for newsyslog
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:

> > As for the daily and weekly options, there are always 24 hours in a day
> > and 168 hours in a week, so fixed period rotations are correctly handled. 
> > Or are they?  In fact, rotating every 24 or 168 hours may not be what was
> > wanted, if the sysadmin really wants the files rotated as close as
> > possible to midnight with the week starting on Sunday. 
> 
>   In some cases, accurate midnight rotation is critical.  
> 
> > So maybe what is needed is a flag to newsyslog which tells it to process 
> > daily, weekly and monthly entries, and newsyslog itself can decide 
> > whether today is the first day of the week or month.
> 
>   In which case we can call it cron2
> 
>   newsyslog works well when you need to rotate syslog logs, but if you
> need to do some pre or post processing too (like the login accounting
> problem), you might as well use cron.  You are going to have to create
> lots of shell scripts for all of these pre and post processing jobs
> anyhow, so you might as well let cron process it.
> 
>   I feel uncomfortable for using newsyslog for processing anything other
> than syslog generated logs, especially considering how newsyslog HUPs
> syslog whenever it moves a log file.

You need a generic way of allowing a HUP to be sent to any process, eg. by
specifying the PID file.

You need a way to only gzip the log-before-the-just-rotated one, not the
just-rotated one. This is because some programs don't immediately close
logfiles on HUP, but can take a minute or two.

You need a way to tell it to name files based on date (eg. foo.19980117)
instead of number; by number sucks for incremental backups because they
are moved every day.

You need a way to have it specify hard times instead of every x hours.

You need the ability to add arbitrary pre and post rotation commands.

I find logrotate unusable for real log rotations because of these missing
features, but find it very silly to have to write my own stuff all the
time (or use another package) to do it.  Unfortunately, extra features
don't fit too well with the config file format.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 06:52:12 1998
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From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Brandon Gillespie <brandon@roguetrader.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: /usr/include/sys/types.h FD_ZERO/FD_COPY macros
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It really doesn't matter since they're hidden behind the macro anyway.
BTW, have you looked at the source for bc

On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Brandon Gillespie wrote:

> The macro's use bzero/bcopy... currently:
> 
> #define FD_COPY(f, t)   bcopy(f, t, sizeof(*(f))) 
> #define FD_ZERO(p)      bzero(p, sizeof(*(p)))
> 
> Should probably be (in order to be more standard):
> 
> #define FD_COPY(f, t)   memcpy(t, f, sizeof(*(f))) 
> #define FD_ZERO(p)      memset(p, 0, sizeof(*(p)))
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken?  (for more info on the FD_* look at 'man select')
> 
> -Brandon Gillespie
> 

--
michaelh@cet.co.jp                                http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan              Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 07:58:22 1998
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>>>>> "Kaleb" == Kaleb S KEITHLEY <k.#nojunk#keithley@opengroup.org> writes:

    Kaleb> Subject sort of says it all. I've got 100+ meg of swap and
    Kaleb> ld grows (watched with top) to ~30 meg before it exits with
    Kaleb> an "unable to allocate memory" error.

This sounds very similar to the same problem I was having compiling
the DCE sources (link > 64MB).  The problem I was having was with the 
resource settings for my user in login.conf(5).  Check the output of 
'ulimit -a' or 'limits'.  If you still have problems linking and if
you are running X, try the link from a console and see if it works
(I'm not sure what to do with the xuser record).

-Ted

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 08:04:58 1998
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To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:48:06 PST."
             <199801180248.SAA09258@austin.polstra.com> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
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>> we save the path -- the most intuitive place is the proc 
>> structure.
>
>I don't purport to speak for David Greenman, but I would guess that
>anything like this that slowed down every exec might not make him
>too happy.  An acceptable solution should have virtually zero impact
>except on processes that actually call dladdr.  I think that's
>probably do-able.  One idea (not well thought through, so it might
>not work) would be to have the kernel save pointers to the vnode of
>the executable and the vnode of the directory that contained it at
>exec time.  I think that from those two things it should be possible
>to compute a full pathname later on.  Of course, it would fail if
>somebody (re)moved the executable file after it was already running,
>but so would just about any approach.

   Yes, I would be most displeased with a kludge that added 1KB (MAXPATHLEN)
to our struct proc as well as increased the overhead of doing the exec. Your
suggestion is a good one and in fact we already save the vp of the image
being execed; see p->p_textvp. If the directory vnode is also stored, then
one could do the equivilent of 'getcwd' on that directory and yield the
full path to the file. There may be directory reference count complications,
however - you'd have to hold a reference to the directory vnode while the
image was running, and this could be evil. Needs more thought.

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 08:11:15 1998
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Subject: Re: user limits, login.conf, etc.
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>>>>> "Chris" == Chris Toshok <toshok@netscape.com> writes:

    Chris> I've upped every conceivable limit that I run across, and I
    Chris> still get
    Chris> gdb: virtual memory exhausted: can't allocate 4072 bytes.

What does the output of 'limits' look like?  Does it look like what
you would expect based on your /etc/login.conf?

    Chris> when I try to debug netscape.  The gdb process never gets

If you login via xdm you are going to get a possibly very different 
set of limits than if you login to the console and then run 'startx'.

-Ted

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 08:15:15 1998
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On Sat, Jan 17, 1998 at 04:40:16PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote:
>> As Mike Smith pointed out, 'function' is a poor choice of words.  I'm
>> in the top half of a driver (in process context *only*), checking
>> configuration information, which requires a number of nested function
>> calls.  It does not require communication with the bottom half of the
>> driver.
>
> OK, you have an acyclic directed graph, any you are starting at the end
> and traversing state in one direction on the edge:
>
>       |
>       v
>       o
>        \  <- can unwind this state transition via 'return'
>          o
>           \ <- have to unwind this state transition via 'longjmp'
>            o
>
> Because you are doing this evil thing, you need to unwind your stack
> state.

What's evil about this thing?

> You need to reorder your function call graph so that there is only a
> depth of one so you can unwind state using a return value from the
> function:
>
>          |
>          v
>          o
>         / \ <- can unwind both these state transitions via 'return'
>        o   o

In other words, adapt my algorithm to the subset of functionality
which you consider non-evil, at the expense of readability and
performance.  Yes, of course I considered this alternative.

>>>> Could you explain how to use tsleep()/wakeup() to perform this
>>>> function?
>>>
>>> Obtain intention mode locks before descending.
>>
>> Locks on what?  Descending where?  This is pure code.  With the
>> exception of having to read disk blocks at times, there is no
>> interruption.  Reading the disk blocks is not part of the problem,
>> though it would cause the process to be scheduled.
>
> Locks on the state you intend to change.  If you require that every state
> you will change must be possible to change to the new state before you
> attempt the first state-change, then you will never encounter an
> exception.  An exception occurs when an action you are attempting
> fails.  If you use locks to ensure it can never fail, then you don't
> have to deal with it failing.

I think you're assuming that more than one process is involved.  I
don't know why.

> If you never *encounter* an exception, you will never need to *handle*
> an exception.
>
>>> If you have a possible conflict, then the intention mode lock wasn't
>>> granted, and this situtation never arose.  8-).
>>
>> Which situation?
>
> The situation where you needed to throw an exception.

Can you apply this thread to your diagrams above?

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 08:21:33 1998
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To: Chris Toshok <toshok@netscape.com>
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Subject: Re: user limits, login.conf, etc. 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:35:38 PST."
             <34C16A7A.9E950A3@netscape.com> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
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>I've been using freebsd for my work (on the navigator) for some time,
>and am having a problem with 2.2.5.
>
>I've upped every conceivable limit that I run across, and I still get 
>
>gdb: virtual memory exhausted: can't allocate 4072 bytes.
>
>when I try to debug netscape.  The gdb process never gets above 32 megs,
>and the netscape executable doesn't grow to more than 16 megs.
>
>The machine has way more than enough to handle this -- 128 megs
>physical, and 400 megs of swap.
>
>Here's my login.conf entry:
>
>default:\
>        :cputime=infinity:\
>        :datasize=256M:\
>        :stacksize=256M:\
>        :memorylocked=256M:\
>        :memoryuse=256M:\
>        :filesize=infinity:\
>        :coredumpsize=infinity:\
>        :maxproc=infinity:\
>        :openfiles=infinity:\
>        :priority=0:\
>        :requirehome@:\
>        :umask=022:\
>        :tc=auth-defaults:
>
>The kernel was compiled with:
>
>options         "MAXDSIZ=(512*1024*1024)"
>options         "DFLDSIZ=(512*1024*1024)"
>
>Anyone have a clue?  It's getting extremely frustrating debugging with
>printfs.

   What does the shell report that about the limits? Which shell are you
using? It sounds like there is another login.conf entry that is matching
your login. Have you tried manually setting the limits to infinity prior
to starting gdb?

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 08:23:32 1998
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From: "Duane H. Hesser" <dhh@androcles.com>
To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: 2nd call for comments: New option for newsyslog
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On 17-Jan-98 Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote:
[snip]
>
>Maybe it would be better to make a generic shell script to do file
>rotation.  It would need some flags, like gzip compression needed,
>etc.  It could be used by user scripts also.  I have some that would
>be much simpler with such program available.
>

The smail 3 distribution contains a shell script 'savelog' which does this
very nicely. FYI, Here are the comments from the script.

#! /bin/sh
# @(#) $Id: savelog.sh,v 1.5 1992/07/11 11:40:30 tron Exp $
#
# savelog - save a log file
#
#    Copyright (C) 1987, 1988 Ronald S. Karr and Landon Curt Noll
#    Copyright (C) 1992  Ronald S. Karr
# 
# See the file COPYING, distributed with smail, for restriction
# and warranty information.
#
# usage: savelog [-m mode] [-u user] [-g group] [-t] [-c cycle] [-l] file...
#
#       -m mode   - chmod log files to mode
#       -u user   - chown log files to user
#       -g group  - chgrp log files to group
#       -c cycle  - save cycle versions of the logfile  (default: 7)
#       -t        - touch file
#       -l        - don't compress any log files        (default: compress)
#       file      - log file names
#
# The savelog command saves and optionally compresses old copies of files
# into an 'dir'/OLD sub-directory.  The 'dir' directory is determined from
# the directory of each 'file'.  
#
# Older version of 'file' are named:
#
#               OLD/'file'.<number><compress_suffix>
#
# where <number> is the version number, 0 being the newest.  By default,
# version numbers > 0 are compressed (unless -l prevents it). The
# version number 0 is never compressed on the off chance that a process
# still has 'file' opened for I/O.
#
# If the 'file' does not exist or if it is zero length, no further processing
# is performed.  However if -t was also given, it will be created.
#
# For files that do exist and have lengths greater than zero, the following 
# actions are performed.
#
#       1) Version numered files are cycled.  That is version 6 is moved to
#          version 7, version is moved to becomes version 6, ... and finally
#          version 0 is moved to version 1.  Both compressed names and
#          uncompressed names are cycled, regardless of -t.  Missing version 
#          files are ignored.
#
#       2) The new OLD/file.1 is compressed and is changed subject to 
#          the -m, -u and -g flags.  This step is skipped if the -t flag 
#          was given.
#
#       3) The main file is moved to OLD/file.0.
#
#       4) If the -m, -u, -g or -t flags are given, then file is created 
#          (as an empty file) subject to the given flags.
#
#       5) The new OLD/file.0 is chanegd subject to the -m, -u and -g flags.
#
# Note: If the OLD sub-directory does not exist, it will be created 
#       with mode 0755.
#
# Note: If no -m, -u or -g flag is given, then the primary log file is 
#       not created.
#
# Note: Since the version numbers start with 0, version number <cycle>
#       is never formed.  The <cycle> count must be at least 2.
#
# Bugs: If a process is still writing to the file.0 and savelog
#       moved it to file.1 and compresses it, data could be lost.
#       Smail does not have this problem in general because it
#       restats files often.

>
>// > As for the daily and weekly options, there are always 24 hours in a day
>// > and 168 hours in a week, so fixed period rotations are correctly handled.
>// > Or are they?  In fact, rotating every 24 or 168 hours may not be what was
>// > wanted, if the sysadmin really wants the files rotated as close as
>// > possible to midnight with the week starting on Sunday. 
>// 
>//   In some cases, accurate midnight rotation is critical.  
>

For accurate midnight rotation, use '@daily' (or @weekly, @monthly) in your
root crontab.  The wheels are reasonably round...why re-invent them?

--------------
Duane H. Hesser
dhh@androcles.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 08:28:15 1998
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On Sun, Jan 18, 1998 at 11:46:15AM +0100, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote:
> Hi, 
> I'd like to know something about quake and quake2:
> 
> 1) Is there anyone that is succeding in hearing audio and sound with
> Quake I ?
> I am playing with the qwcl version 2.1 (linux), but I am not able to
> hear anything with the following drivers : Luigi's snd code, ossFreeBSD,
> the standard ones . I am using a awe 64 which works with other programs
> without problems.
> 
> 2) Can someone send me the url where I can find the help page to run
> quake2 on FreeBSD -current ? Is there a port to do it somewhere ?

I also have an AWE64, and Quake I & II sound works with no tweaks at all on
-current for me...

Maybe the problem is with the config of your sound card...  I configure my
kernel with pnp support and the following sound options:

controller      snd0
device          sb0     at isa? port 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr
device          sbxvi0  at isa? drq 5
device          sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330
device          opl0    at isa? port 0x388
device          awe0    at isa? port 0x620

Then, boot -c the new kernel, and enter the following in the configuration
editor:

pnp 1 0 os enable port0 0x220 irq0 5 drq0 1 drq1 5 port1 0x330 port2 0x388
pnp 1 1 os enable port0 0x208
pnp 1 2 os enable port0 0x620 port1 0xa20 port2 0xe20

Line 1 is for sb, sbxvi, opl, and sbmidi.
Line 2 is for the gameport.
Line 3 is for the AWE synth.

Hope this helps...


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 09:25:24 1998
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To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:04:24 PST."
    <199801180604.WAA00766@rah.star-gate.com> 
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:24:53 -0800
From: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
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> Thats an interesting approach so what happens to a vnode of a
> running executable when is mark for delete? I kind doubt that the
> vnode goes away while the image is still executing 8)

Of course not.  But there is no longer a pathname for it.

John

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 10:51:19 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 06:53:04 GMT."
    <199801180653.XAA07823@usr04.primenet.com> 
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:50:25 -0800
From: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
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> To be bug-compatible with Solaris, you should simply return argv[0]
> *witjout* trying to find it in your PATH.

Really?!  Gawd, what a hack.  Well, that's easy, anyway.

> Yes, this is a kludge.

The whole dladdr interface reeks of, shall we say, expediency.  I
particularly loathe the requirement that it also return the "nearest
symbol name to the specified address."  I wish they had made that
optional.  It's very expensive, requiring a linear search of the
whole symbol table.  And I bet it's not even used most of the time.
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 11:20:41 1998
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To: gmarco@giovannelli.it
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Quake(2) : info & questions 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:46:15 +0100."
             <34C1DD77.27080877@giovannelli.it> 
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:19:56 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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> Hi, 
> I'd like to know something about quake and quake2:
> 
> 1) Is there anyone that is succeding in hearing audio and sound with
> Quake I ?
> I am playing with the qwcl version 2.1 (linux), but I am not able to
> hear anything with the following drivers : Luigi's snd code, ossFreeBSD,
> the standard ones . I am using a awe 64 which works with other programs
> without problems.
> 
> 2) Can someone send me the url where I can find the help page to run
> quake2 on FreeBSD -current ? Is there a port to do it somewhere ?
> 

Typically, we discuss such issues in the multimedia mailing list.

Yes, I have managed to get sound out of quake and q2test .

	Amancio



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 11:37:35 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:36:40 +0100 (CET)
From: Oliver Fromme <olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de>
Message-Id: <199801181936.UAA22085@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: New typedefs in sys/types.h
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ichael K. Sanders <msanders@aros.net> wrote in list.freebsd-hackers:
 > In message <199801132239.WAA10230@awfulhak.org>, Brian Somers writes:
 > >> Well, FWIW, apparently Digital Unix has int = 32 and long = 64.
 > >
 > >As does OpenBSD/Alpha, and I believe NetBSD/Alpha.  Nobody's been 
 > >brave/stupid enough to make sizeof(int) != 4 yet !
 > 
 > Like there'd really be a whole lot of difference there... if
 > OpenBSD/alpha is that way, you're pretty safe in assuming NetBSD/alpha
 > is, since I doubt there have been many changes to that code.

I'd like to add the fact that both 32 and 64 bits are "natural"
sizes for the Alpha processor.  It can perform memory accesses
in 32 bits units as well as in 64 bits units.  It also has
special provisions to access 8 bit parts of its registers.

It's also interesting to know that DEC's C compiler for Alpha
has a special option which causes all pointer values to be
below 2^32, and even a #pragma directive to make all pointers
32 bits.  This certainly shouldn't matter for cleanly written
software, but the truth it that there is still a lot of
software which requires those options (e.g. Doom -- although
that's probably not a typical example).

To make a long story short, I'd vote for LP64, that is, 8 bit
chars, 16 bit shorts, 32 bit ints, 64 bit longs and pointers.
Maybe even 128 bit long long (BTW, the upcoming C9X standard
even legalizes "long long").

Regards
   Oliver

PS:  The width of the memory bus of modern Alphas is 128 or
256 bits -- I don't think that should be taken into account
when deciding about the size of ints.  ;-)

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18-61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany
(Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 11:42:37 1998
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To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:24:53 PST."
             <199801181724.JAA13957@austin.polstra.com> 
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> > Thats an interesting approach so what happens to a vnode of a
> > running executable when is mark for delete? I kind doubt that the
> > vnode goes away while the image is still executing 8)
> 
> Of course not.  But there is no longer a pathname for it.
> 
> John

So whats wrong with just simply calling getwcd in the main of the
program?

That should get us the current working directory which is what is
needed by java to locate its class libraries.

	Cheers,
	Amancio



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 12:40:45 1998
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Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
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> So whats wrong with just simply calling getwcd in the main of the
> program?

Because that gives you the cwd of the *calling* process, not the
location of the executable.


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 12:49:36 1998
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To: Frank Mayhar <frank@exit.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: CLOCAL in user-mode PPP???? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:56:58 PST."
             <199801162156.NAA04169@exit.com> 
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From: Brian Somers <brian@Awfulhak.org>
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> (I'm trusting that the list isn't dead.  I'm afraid it is.)
> 
> I'm looking at the user-mode PPP source.  I have a problem where dialup
> PPP sessions aren't being hung up when the user quits, under FreeBSD 
> 2.2.5-STABLE (the very latest bits).  It turns out that user-mode PPP is
> setting CLOCAL on the device.
> 
> This seems stupid.
> 
> Why does it set CLOCAL?  Why doesn't it want to let you hang up on it?  I'm
> in the process of hacking my local copy to _not_ set CLOCAL, which is what
> I apparently did for FreeBSD 2.1 as well, but it would be nice to see this
> change get into the mainline source, so I don't have to keep fixing it for
> my application.
> 
> Thanks for any replies.  Extra thanks for the useful ones!

If you get the latest ppp from -current or from

  http://www.FreeBSD.org/~brian

this will work.  Ppp sets CLOCAL, then polls the tty line.  This is 
kinda done for hysterical reasons, but I was never keen to change it 
because of my plans for multilink ppp.  However, having said that, 
my ideas are now moving towards a multi-process model - one per 
physical line.  This means that leaving CLOCAL off and waiting for a 
HUP would be the decent thing to do :-)

I'll get to do some on this soon !

> -- 
> Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com

-- 
Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
      <http://www.Awfulhak.org>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 12:59:45 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
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Content-Type: multipart/mixed ;
	boundary="===_0_Sun_Jan_18_12:57:47_PST_1998"
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:59:19 -0800
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This is a multipart MIME message.

--===_0_Sun_Jan_18_12:57:47_PST_1998
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Could somebody with access to a Solaris machine please compile and
run the attached program, and send me its output?

Thanks,
John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth


--===_0_Sun_Jan_18_12:57:47_PST_1998
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Description: test.c

#include <dlfcn.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <unistd.h>

#define TRY(name)	(try(#name, &name))

extern int end;
int foo;
int bar=100;

static void
try(const char *name, void *addr)
{
    Dl_info dli;

    printf("&%s = %p:\n", name, addr);
    if (dladdr(addr, &dli) == 0)
	printf("  dladdr failed\n");
    else {
	printf("  fname = %s\n", dli.dli_fname);
	printf("  fbase = %p\n", dli.dli_fbase);
	printf("  sname = %s\n", dli.dli_sname);
	printf("  saddr = %p\n", dli.dli_saddr);
    }
}

main(int argc, char **argv)
{
    printf("argv[0] = %s\n", argv[0]);
    printf("&end = %p\n", &end);
    TRY(foo);
    TRY(bar);
    TRY(main);
    TRY(printf);
    TRY(setuid);
    return 0;
}


--===_0_Sun_Jan_18_12:57:47_PST_1998--



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 13:24:06 1998
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To: Sean Eric Fagan <sef@kithrup.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: isdisk() kludge in kernel 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:56:03 PST."
             <199801172356.PAA18827@kithrup.com> 
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:22:55 -0800
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In message <199801172356.PAA18827@kithrup.com>, Sean Eric Fagan writes:
> In article <199801172038.MAA24817.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@red.juniper.net> yo
> u write:
> >I'd like to propose changing spec_open to simply NEVER allowing the open of
> >a block device, or character device, if a character device has a block
> >device associated with it and eliminate isdisk() in kern_conf entirely.
> >
> >Objections?  (p.s. I found this in 2.2.5, haven't checked 3.0 yet to see if
> >it was fixed, if it was, sorry for bothering you).
> 
> The comment seems to indicate what *should* be done -- namely, the driver
> should be asked whether it's a disk or not.
> 
> Sean.


Yes, but can you think of ANY block device that you would want to be allowed
open once secureleve > 2?

I think the distinction is moot.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 13:32:42 1998
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To: dg@root.com
cc: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: isdisk() kludge in kernel 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:24:46 PST."
             <199801180024.QAA16926@implode.root.com> 
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:31:20 -0800
From: Paul Traina <pst@juniper.net>
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In message <199801180024.QAA16926@implode.root.com>, David Greenman writes:
> >I was looking at isdisk and wanted to hurl chunks.
> >
> >This is used by spec_open to determine if we should be allowed to open a
> >disk device when securelevel >= 1.
> >
> >I'd like to propose changing spec_open to simply NEVER allowing the open of
> >a block device, or character device, if a character device has a block
> >device associated with it and eliminate isdisk() in kern_conf entirely.
> >
> >Objections?  (p.s. I found this in 2.2.5, haven't checked 3.0 yet to see if
> >it was fixed, if it was, sorry for bothering you).
> 
>    I must be too tired or something: the above makes little sense to me. We
> have block and character devices for disks for a reason. They are mutually
> exclusive and both are required for the system to work.

In both 2.2.25 and -current, there is code in spec_open() which restricts
the opening of disk devices, both character AND block, if securelevel >= n.

Currently, this code calls isdisk() to determine if a device is a
disk device.  isdisk() is evil.  I was thinking of replacing isdisk()
with a flags in the cdevsw/bdevsw structures (the right(tm) thing
to do) but then thought some more about the semantics of the open,
and decided that an acceptable alternate is to simply replace
isdisk() inline code in spec_open() which restricts the opening of
ALL block devices and ANY character device that also can be accessed
as a block device.

While this isn't as exact as having an explicit flag that says:
"Hey, I'm a disk!"  I'd rather change the semantics slightly and
always get a reasonable default behavior, rather than rely on the
drivers to "do the right thing" because they never do -- the problem
is too distributed for it to be a clean security-worthy fix.

Paul

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 13:40:02 1998
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Message-Id: <199801181432.PAA08357@yedi.iaf.nl>
Subject: Re: experiences with Motorola Bitsurfr ISDN TA
In-Reply-To: <199801181252.EAA13117@baloon.mimi.com> from Satoshi Asami at "Jan 18, 98 04:52:38 am"
To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:32:09 +0100 (MET)
Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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As Satoshi Asami wrote...
> Hackers, listen to this guy.
> 
>  * If I get it working I'll write up a story 'bout it for the handbook.
> 
> You're the model citizen of the FreeBSD world, Wilko!  If everyone
> shared just a little bit of their experience, nobody will be able to
> blame FreeBSD for lacking documentation! :)

Thanks for your kind words :-) But the remark is very valid I suppose.
I've written some stuff for the handbook, in most cases 'cause I was
sort of frustrated by the time it took me to figure things out. 

Wilko
_     ______________________________________________________________________
 |   / o / /  _  Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko
 |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try'
---------------  Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix  --

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 13:40:08 1998
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Subject: socket ops
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I just found out that I cannot fchmod unix domain sockets.

This is because fchmod() calls getvnode() which fails if the vnode
passed is not of type vnode or type fifo. 
Is there a reason for this rationale?

-Guido

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 13:41:40 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:40:34 -0800
From: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
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On 18 Jan, John Polstra wrote:
> Could somebody with access to a Solaris machine please compile and
> run the attached program, and send me its output?

Thanks, everybody, I've got it now!  You can stop. :-)

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 13:43:53 1998
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To: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
cc: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: isdisk() kludge in kernel 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:29:57 +1100."
             <199801180329.OAA13387@godzilla.zeta.org.au> 
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:42:42 -0800
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In message <199801180329.OAA13387@godzilla.zeta.org.au>, Bruce Evans writes:
> >I was looking at isdisk and wanted to hurl chunks.
> >
> >This is used by spec_open to determine if we should be allowed to open a
> >disk device when securelevel >= 1.
> 
> It isn't even used in -current.

I think it is, the flag gets set elsewhere.

> >I'd like to propose changing spec_open to simply NEVER allowing the open of
> >a block device, or character device, if a character device has a block
> >device associated with it and eliminate isdisk() in kern_conf entirely.
> 
> This would break at least backups to SCSI tape devices, since st has both
> block and character devices, but tapes aren't disks.  Perhaps the broken
> version is correct - isdisk() really means isasecurityholeifmountable().

Aha, you're correct, ok, bad idea.
> 
> Bruce


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 13:45:55 1998
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From: Nathan Ahlstrom <nrahlstr@gloria.cord.edu>
To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-Reply-To: <199801182059.MAA15204@austin.polstra.com>
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Here is the output of test.c compiled on Solaris 2.4.


argv[0] = a.out
&end = 20b34
&foo = 20b30:
  fname = a.out
  fbase = 10000
  sname = foo
  saddr = 20b30
&bar = 20b18:
  fname = a.out
  fbase = 10000
  sname = bar
  saddr = 20b18
&main = 107d0:
  fname = a.out
  fbase = 10000
  sname = main
  saddr = 107d0
&printf = 20af0:
  fname = a.out
  fbase = 10000
  sname = _PROCEDURE_LINKAGE_TABLE_
  saddr = 20a9c
&setuid = 20b08:
  fname = a.out
  fbase = 10000
  sname = _PROCEDURE_LINKAGE_TABLE_
  saddr = 20a9c




Nathan
nrahlstr@gloria.cord.edu

On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, John Polstra wrote:

> Could somebody with access to a Solaris machine please compile and
> run the attached program, and send me its output?
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> --
>    John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
>    John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
>    "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth
> 
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 13:52:03 1998
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From: John Brann <jbrann@brann.org>
Message-Id: <199801182151.QAA07806@freebie.brann.org>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
In-Reply-To: <199801182059.MAA15204@austin.polstra.com> from John Polstra at "Jan 18, 98 12:59:19 pm"
To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:51:25 -0500 (EST)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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John Polstra wrote...
> Could somebody with access to a Solaris machine please compile and
> run the attached program, and send me its output?
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> --
>    John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
>    John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
>    "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth
> 

OK, here goes:

$ uname -a
SunOS mercury 5.5 Generic sun4m sparc SUNW,SPARCstation-5


$ cc -o jdptry try.c -ldl
"try.c", line 33: warning: argument #2 is incompatible with prototype:
prototype: pointer to void : "try.c", line 12
argument : pointer to function(int, pointer to pointer to char) returning int
"try.c", line 34: warning: argument #2 is incompatible with prototype:
prototype: pointer to void : "try.c", line 12
argument : pointer to function(pointer to const char, ...) returning int
"try.c", line 35: warning: argument #2 is incompatible with prototype:
prototype: pointer to void : "try.c", line 12
argument : pointer to function(long) returning int

OK, so far, so good.

$ ls
jdptry  try.c


$ ./jdptry
argv[0] = ./jdptry
&end = 20c00
&foo = 20bfc:
fname = ./jdptry
fbase = 10000
sname = foo
saddr = 20bfc
&bar = 20bf4:
fname = ./jdptry
fbase = 10000
sname = bar
saddr = 20bf4
&main = 10898:
fname = ./jdptry
fbase = 10000
sname = main
saddr = 10898
&printf = 20bac:
fname = ./jdptry
fbase = 10000
sname = _PROCEDURE_LINKAGE_TABLE_
saddr = 20b58
&setuid = 20bc4:
fname = ./jdptry
fbase = 10000
sname = _PROCEDURE_LINKAGE_TABLE_
saddr = 20b58


I hope that's what you were looking for, this is all greek to me :-)

Regards,

John
-- 
Prohibit work, prohibit pay - people are dying!  
			Situationist International slogan

finger jbrann@doorman.brann.org for pgp public key

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:06:57 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801182206.PAA03832@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
To: dg@root.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:06:34 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: jdp@polstra.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801181553.HAA24836@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Jan 18, 98 07:53:06 am
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> Your
> suggestion is a good one and in fact we already save the vp of the image
> being execed; see p->p_textvp. If the directory vnode is also stored, then
> one could do the equivilent of 'getcwd' on that directory and yield the
> full path to the file. There may be directory reference count complications,
> however - you'd have to hold a reference to the directory vnode while the
> image was running, and this could be evil. Needs more thought.

You could do it byfile handle, and look it up that way; the FS
namespace code is not very good and can't support dev_t/ino_t based
lookup (you could get the dev_t from the vp for the image), but it
does support fhtovp().

Ideally, you'd want to store an FS opaque value to do this.  Directories
implcitly point to their parent in their data ("..").  There are issues
with mount point traversal, of course.  So you *could* getcwd() your
way up.

One *REAL* problem with doing this via vp instead of just doing what
Sun does is that it gives you a vnode for the parent directory (I know,
that's what you think you want 8-)).  This is a problem because of
chroot.  This is the same reason you can't export an inode namespace
very safely, unless inodes store parent pointers.

Really, hard links need to have an alias inode whose purpose is to
point to the real inode, and the real inode points to the alias as
a circular list.  This will let you delete the first link while
keeping the second, yet maintain correct parent pointers for hard
links.

Of course, that would make the implementation FS specific again; I
still think the best approach is to use the argv[ 0], and if your
program cares, start it with a wrapper that passes the absolute
path as argv[ 0].  Mostly, you care about libraries.  The java use
of this is a kludge anyway; really java should have an "ldconfig"
equivalent, then this dancing would not be necessary.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:16:09 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801182214.PAA04062@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:14:28 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801181942.LAA19375@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Jan 18, 98 11:42:07 am
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> > > Thats an interesting approach so what happens to a vnode of a
> > > running executable when is mark for delete? I kind doubt that the
> > > vnode goes away while the image is still executing 8)
> > 
> > Of course not.  But there is no longer a pathname for it.

Actually, there is; it's in /proc.  8-).  I kind of doubt that
Classes.zip is located relative to /proc, however.  8-(.


> So whats wrong with just simply calling getwcd in the main of the
> program?
> 
> That should get us the current working directory which is what is
> needed by java to locate its class libraries.

Because it will return the directory name of where you ran it from, not
the directory name of where the image that is executng is located?

8-) 8-).

The classes are located relative to the image, not relative to where
the image was run from...


The real PITA here is that most of the kludge workarounds being discussed
will not allow the creation of a correct JRE for a java applet that is
being run by an execution class loader from the kernel.  So they aren't
even good workarounds, since they preclude future work.  And that's a
bad thing.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:18:36 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801182218.PAA04330@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:18:01 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801182140.NAA15476@austin.polstra.com> from "John Polstra" at Jan 18, 98 01:40:34 pm
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> > Could somebody with access to a Solaris machine please compile and
> > run the attached program, and send me its output?
> 
> Thanks, everybody, I've got it now!  You can stop. :-)

You aren't going to get what you probably thought you were going to get;
spcifically, the libc symbol names will actually give you the address
of the stub function linked from the shared library into the main program,
not the address of the function in the C library.  I pointed that out
with my first test program and output (very similar to yours).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:23:28 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:18:01 GMT."
    <199801182218.PAA04330@usr04.primenet.com> 
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:23:03 -0800
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> You aren't going to get what you probably thought you were going to
> get; spcifically, the libc symbol names will actually give you the
> address of the stub function linked from the shared library into the
> main program, not the address of the function in the C library.

Yes, I know.  That's why I wanted to see the output.  I wanted to see
whether Solaris bothered to resolve those to their true addresses.

> I pointed that out with my first test program and output (very
> similar to yours).

Sorry, I didn't see that.

John

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:24:30 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:14:28 GMT."
             <199801182214.PAA04062@usr04.primenet.com> 
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:23:59 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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{hasty} pwd
/usr/home/hasty
{hasty} ./test
argv[0] ./test 
getcwd /usr/home/hasty 
{hasty} /tmp/test
argv[0] /tmp/test 
getcwd /usr/home/hasty 

Now it looks to me that we have enough information to reconstruct the 
the execution path. If "test" is a symlink we should be able to
follow the symlink provided that thats what we want.

	Enjoy,
	Amancio


> > > > Thats an interesting approach so what happens to a vnode of a
> > > > running executable when is mark for delete? I kind doubt that the
> > > > vnode goes away while the image is still executing 8)
> > > 
> > > Of course not.  But there is no longer a pathname for it.
> 
> Actually, there is; it's in /proc.  8-).  I kind of doubt that
> Classes.zip is located relative to /proc, however.  8-(.
> 
> 
> > So whats wrong with just simply calling getwcd in the main of the
> > program?
> > 
> > That should get us the current working directory which is what is
> > needed by java to locate its class libraries.
> 
> Because it will return the directory name of where you ran it from, not
> the directory name of where the image that is executng is located?
> 
> 8-) 8-).
> 
> The classes are located relative to the image, not relative to where
> the image was run from...
> 
> 
> The real PITA here is that most of the kludge workarounds being discussed
> will not allow the creation of a correct JRE for a java applet that is
> being run by an execution class loader from the kernel.  So they aren't
> even good workarounds, since they preclude future work.  And that's a
> bad thing.
> 
> 
> 					Terry Lambert
> 					terry@lambert.org
> ---
> Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
> or previous employers.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:24:51 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801182224.PAA04738@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: socket ops
To: guido@gvr.org (Guido van Rooij)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:24:13 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801182139.WAA24386@gvr.gvr.org> from "Guido van Rooij" at Jan 18, 98 10:39:06 pm
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> I just found out that I cannot fchmod unix domain sockets.
> 
> This is because fchmod() calls getvnode() which fails if the vnode
> passed is not of type vnode or type fifo. 
> Is there a reason for this rationale?

Look for "struct fileops" in /sys/kern/*.c, and all will be revealed.

The mode is referenced via VOP_GETATTR/VOP_SETATTR off of a vnode
to get the FS specific method of getting/setting mode bits.  If you
do not have a backing object, you do not have mode bits.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:29:00 1998
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Message-Id: <199801182228.XAA24830@gvr.gvr.org>
Subject: Re: socket ops
In-Reply-To: <199801182224.PAA04738@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 18, 98 10:24:13 pm"
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
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Terry Lambert wrote:
> > I just found out that I cannot fchmod unix domain sockets.
> > 
> > This is because fchmod() calls getvnode() which fails if the vnode
> > passed is not of type vnode or type fifo. 
> > Is there a reason for this rationale?
> 
> Look for "struct fileops" in /sys/kern/*.c, and all will be revealed.
> 
> The mode is referenced via VOP_GETATTR/VOP_SETATTR off of a vnode
> to get the FS specific method of getting/setting mode bits.  If you
> do not have a backing object, you do not have mode bits.

?? There *is* a backing object. I am talking about UNIX domain
sockets here.

-Guido

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:31:31 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801182230.PAA04997@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:30:02 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > You aren't going to get what you probably thought you were going to
> > get; spcifically, the libc symbol names will actually give you the
> > address of the stub function linked from the shared library into the
> > main program, not the address of the function in the C library.
> 
> Yes, I know.  That's why I wanted to see the output.  I wanted to see
> whether Solaris bothered to resolve those to their true addresses.
> 
> > I pointed that out with my first test program and output (very
> > similar to yours).
> 
> Sorry, I didn't see that.

I think the answers are slightly different between x86 and SPARC, as
well.  I would have to drive a bit (the weather here is currently
terrible) to verify this.  I think it has to do with the PLT
implementation.  I may be wrong; but it's kind of irrelevent anyway.

The magic thing is that if you call it from *within* a shared library,
the shared library can get to itself and know where it is located.

This would actually be a *really* useful thing to do for name
resolver which worked by finding .so's near the library so you
could add arbitrary name spaces (X.25, ISO, XNS, SMB, etc.).  It
would also be useful for a "libauth" or something similar to
implement PAM better than PAM implements it.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:35:41 1998
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From: Guido van Rooij <guido@gvr.org>
Message-Id: <199801182234.XAA24903@gvr.gvr.org>
Subject: Re: socket ops
In-Reply-To: From guido at "Jan 18, 98 11:28:12 pm"
To: guido@gvr.gvr.org (guido)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:34:25 +0100 (MET)
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guido wrote:
> Terry Lambert wrote:
> > > I just found out that I cannot fchmod unix domain sockets.
> > > 
> > > This is because fchmod() calls getvnode() which fails if the vnode
> > > passed is not of type vnode or type fifo. 
> > > Is there a reason for this rationale?
> > 
> > Look for "struct fileops" in /sys/kern/*.c, and all will be revealed.
> > 
> > The mode is referenced via VOP_GETATTR/VOP_SETATTR off of a vnode
> > to get the FS specific method of getting/setting mode bits.  If you
> > do not have a backing object, you do not have mode bits.
> 
> ?? There *is* a backing object. I am talking about UNIX domain
> sockets here.

The problem here is that the struct file underneath the file descriptor
is of type DTYPE_SOCKET. However, there *is* a backing vnode if the
socket happens to be in the unix domain. Indeed there is no simpe
way (I think) to find that out runtime. But that was not the question.

I still think it is a bit strange we cannot use f*() functions on 
files in the unix name space. 

-Guido

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:49:19 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801182238.PAA05582@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: socket ops
To: guido@gvr.org (Guido van Rooij)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:38:31 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: guido@gvr.gvr.org, tlambert@primenet.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801182234.XAA24903@gvr.gvr.org> from "Guido van Rooij" at Jan 18, 98 11:34:25 pm
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> The problem here is that the struct file underneath the file descriptor
> is of type DTYPE_SOCKET. However, there *is* a backing vnode if the
> socket happens to be in the unix domain. Indeed there is no simpe
> way (I think) to find that out runtime. But that was not the question.
> 
> I still think it is a bit strange we cannot use f*() functions on 
> files in the unix name space. 

I didn't say it wasn't stupid, I just answered your "why" question.

If I had my "druthers", I would delete struct fileops; however, I rarely
am allowed "druthers".


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:49:26 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801182236.PAA05447@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: socket ops
To: guido@gvr.org (Guido van Rooij)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:36:29 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801182228.XAA24830@gvr.gvr.org> from "Guido van Rooij" at Jan 18, 98 11:28:12 pm
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> > Look for "struct fileops" in /sys/kern/*.c, and all will be revealed.
> > 
> > The mode is referenced via VOP_GETATTR/VOP_SETATTR off of a vnode
> > to get the FS specific method of getting/setting mode bits.  If you
> > do not have a backing object, you do not have mode bits.
> 
> ?? There *is* a backing object. I am talking about UNIX domain
> sockets here.

That's a handle object, not a backing object.  Go look for the
"struct fileops" stuff.

If there was a backing object, you'd reference the thing by vnode and
you'd be able to fchmod it.

Look at it this way; I call socketpair().  In which FS does the backing
object (inode that I can reference by vnode) exist?


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:49:40 1998
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Message-Id: <199801182249.XAA25043@gvr.gvr.org>
Subject: Re: socket ops
In-Reply-To: <199801182236.PAA05447@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 18, 98 10:36:29 pm"
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:49:04 +0100 (MET)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Terry Lambert wrote:
> > > Look for "struct fileops" in /sys/kern/*.c, and all will be revealed.
> > > 
> > > The mode is referenced via VOP_GETATTR/VOP_SETATTR off of a vnode
> > > to get the FS specific method of getting/setting mode bits.  If you
> > > do not have a backing object, you do not have mode bits.
> > 
> > ?? There *is* a backing object. I am talking about UNIX domain
> > sockets here.
> 
> That's a handle object, not a backing object.  Go look for the
> "struct fileops" stuff.

I still don't see what fileops has to do with it. I am not talking
about accessing (read or write) the unix domain socket. 
> 
> If there was a backing object, you'd reference the thing by vnode and
> you'd be able to fchmod it.

a unix domain socket has a vnode created by VOP_CREATE. I can reference
it via the struct unpcb pointer hanging off the struct socket.

> 
> Look at it this way; I call socketpair().  In which FS does the backing
> object (inode that I can reference by vnode) exist?

Nowhere. In this case the vnode pointer in the unpcb is zero.

-Guido

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:51:21 1998
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To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: gdb which supports elf?
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:49:35 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Howdy, 
I dowloaded John's elfkit and it seems to work rather nicely.
Made a minor mod to rtld.c, got rid of this:

   assert(!obj_rtld.textrel); 

When loading a shared binary the assert was being triggered
and from the looks of it obj_rtld.textrel was set to 1 meaning
that the text region is relocatable.


Next, I try to compile gdb 4.16 however it needs modifications to support
elf shared objects. So does anyone have mods for gdb to support elf?
If no one has mods for gdb 4.16 , I will be happy to work on it.

	Tnks,
	Amancio






From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 14:51:40 1998
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Subject: Patch for dladdr (was: dladdr hax)
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:50:26 -0800
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This is a multipart MIME message.

--===_0_Sun_Jan_18_14:47:15_PST_1998
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Here are some patches to implement dladdr.  The patches are relative
to -current as of around Jan 17th.  Follow the instructions in each
patch.  Please back up these files before starting:

    /usr/lib/crt0.o
    /usr/libexec/ld.so

and make sure you know how to recover on a system with a trashed
ld.so.  Hint: the programs in /bin are statically linked. :-)

This patch is more or less bug-compatible with Solaris, which means
it's about as lame as it could possibly be.  Somebody please try it
with the applications that need dladdr, and tell me whether it does
what they want it to do.

Thanks,
John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth


--===_0_Sun_Jan_18_14:47:15_PST_1998
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Apply this in "/usr/src/include", then do a make install.

Index: link.h
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/include/link.h,v
retrieving revision 1.17
diff -u -Llink.h -r1.17 link.h
--- link.h
+++ link.h	1998/01/18 19:35:01
@@ -41,6 +41,8 @@
 #ifndef _LINK_H_
 #define _LINK_H_
 
+#include <dlfcn.h>
+
 /*
  * A `Shared Object Descriptor' describes a shared object that is needed
  * to complete the link edit process of the object containing it.
@@ -158,6 +160,7 @@
 #define LDSO_VERSION_NONE	0	/* FreeBSD2.0, 2.0.5 */
 #define LDSO_VERSION_HAS_DLEXIT	1	/* includes dlexit in ld_entry */
 #define LDSO_VERSION_HAS_DLSYM3	2	/* includes 3-argument dlsym */
+#define LDSO_VERSION_HAS_DLADDR	3	/* includes dladdr in ld_entry */
 
 /*
  * Entry points into ld.so - user interface to the run-time linker.
@@ -171,6 +174,7 @@
 	const char *(*dlerror) __P((void));		/* NONE */
 	void	(*dlexit) __P((void));			/* HAS_DLEXIT */
 	void	*(*dlsym3) __P((void *, const char *, void *)); /* HAS_DLSYM3 */
+	int	 (*dladdr) __P((void *, Dl_info *));	/* HAS_DLADDR */
 };
 
 /*
@@ -229,6 +233,7 @@
 	char		*crt_prog;	/* Program name (v3) */
 	char		*crt_ldso;	/* Link editor name (v4) */
 	struct ld_entry	*crt_ldentry;	/* dl*() access (v4) */
+	char		**crt_argv;	/* argument strings (v5) */
 };
 
 /*
@@ -238,6 +243,7 @@
 #define CRT_VERSION_BSD_2	2
 #define CRT_VERSION_BSD_3	3
 #define CRT_VERSION_BSD_4	4
+#define CRT_VERSION_BSD_5	5
 
 /*
  * Maximum number of recognized shared object version numbers.

--===_0_Sun_Jan_18_14:47:15_PST_1998
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Content-Description: diff.2

Apply this in "/usr/src/lib/csu/i386" and do this:

	make beforeinstall
	make
	make install

Index: crt0.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/lib/csu/i386/crt0.c,v
retrieving revision 1.31
diff -u -Lcrt0.c -r1.31 crt0.c
--- crt0.c
+++ crt0.c	1998/01/18 19:35:49
@@ -85,7 +85,7 @@
 
 extern struct _dynamic	_DYNAMIC;
 static struct ld_entry	*ld_entry;
-static void		__do_dynamic_link ();
+static void		__do_dynamic_link(char **argv);
 #endif /* DYNAMIC */
 
 int			_callmain();
@@ -174,7 +174,7 @@
 	/* sometimes GCC is too smart/stupid for its own good */
 	x = (caddr_t)&_DYNAMIC;
 	if (x)
-		__do_dynamic_link();
+		__do_dynamic_link(argv);
 #endif /* DYNAMIC */
 
 asm("eprol:");
@@ -190,7 +190,8 @@
 
 #ifdef DYNAMIC
 static void
-__do_dynamic_link ()
+__do_dynamic_link(argv)
+	char	**argv;
 {
 	struct crt_ldso	crt;
 	struct exec	hdr;
@@ -253,14 +254,20 @@
 	crt.crt_prog = __progname;
 	crt.crt_ldso = ldso;
 	crt.crt_ldentry = NULL;
+	crt.crt_argv = argv;
 
 	entry = (int (*)())(crt.crt_ba + sizeof hdr);
-	ldso_version = (*entry)(CRT_VERSION_BSD_4, &crt);
+	ldso_version = (*entry)(CRT_VERSION_BSD_5, &crt);
 	ld_entry = crt.crt_ldentry;
 	if (ldso_version == -1 && ld_entry == NULL) {
-		/* if version 4 not recognised, try version 3 */
-		ldso_version = (*entry)(CRT_VERSION_BSD_3, &crt);
-		ld_entry = _DYNAMIC.d_entry;
+		/* If version 5 not recognised, try version 4 */
+		ldso_version = (*entry)(CRT_VERSION_BSD_4, &crt);
+		ld_entry = crt.crt_ldentry;
+		if (ldso_version == -1 && ld_entry == NULL) {
+			/* if version 4 not recognised, try version 3 */
+			ldso_version = (*entry)(CRT_VERSION_BSD_3, &crt);
+			ld_entry = _DYNAMIC.d_entry;
+		}
 	}
 	if (ldso_version == -1) {
 		_PUTMSG("ld.so failed");
@@ -334,6 +341,16 @@
 	return (ld_entry->dlerror)();
 }
 
+int
+dladdr(addr, dlip)
+	void	*addr;
+	Dl_info	*dlip;
+{
+	if (ld_entry == NULL || ldso_version < LDSO_VERSION_HAS_DLADDR)
+		return 0;
+	return (ld_entry->dladdr)(addr, dlip);
+}
+
 
 /*
  * Support routines
@@ -419,11 +436,18 @@
 	return NULL;
 }
 
-
 const char *
 dlerror()
 {
 	return "Service unavailable";
+}
+
+int
+dladdr(addr, dlip)
+	void	*addr;
+	Dl_info	*dlip;
+{
+	return 0;
 }
 #endif /* DYNAMIC */
 
Index: dlfcn.h
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/lib/csu/i386/dlfcn.h,v
retrieving revision 1.5
diff -u -Ldlfcn.h -r1.5 dlfcn.h
--- dlfcn.h
+++ dlfcn.h	1998/01/18 19:35:55
@@ -50,11 +50,22 @@
  */
 #define RTLD_NEXT	((void *) -1)
 
+/*
+ * Structure filled in by dladdr().
+ */
+typedef struct dl_info {
+	const char	*dli_fname;	/* Pathname of shared object */
+	void		*dli_fbase;	/* Base address of shared object */
+	const char	*dli_sname;	/* Name of nearest symbol */
+	void		*dli_saddr;	/* Address of nearest symbol */
+} Dl_info;
+
 __BEGIN_DECLS
 void *dlopen __P((const char *, int));
 void *dlsym __P((void *, const char *));
 const char *dlerror __P((void));
 int dlclose __P((void *));
+int dladdr __P((void *, Dl_info *));
 __END_DECLS
 
 #endif /* !_DLFCN_H_ */

--===_0_Sun_Jan_18_14:47:15_PST_1998
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Content-Description: diff.3

Apply this in "/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld", then do a make; make install.

Index: rtld.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld/rtld.c,v
retrieving revision 1.51
diff -u -Lrtld.c -r1.51 rtld.c
--- rtld.c
+++ rtld.c	1998/01/18 22:20:23
@@ -174,6 +174,8 @@
 #define RELOC_PCREL_P(s) ((s)->r_pcrel)
 #endif
 
+#define END_SYM		"_end"
+
 static char		__main_progname[] = "main";
 static char		*main_progname = __main_progname;
 static char		us[] = "/usr/libexec/ld.so";
@@ -205,9 +207,10 @@
 static const char	*__dlerror __P((void));
 static void		__dlexit __P((void));
 static void		*__dlsym3 __P((void *, const char *, void *));
+static int		__dladdr __P((void *, Dl_info *));
 
 static struct ld_entry	ld_entry = {
-	__dlopen, __dlclose, __dlsym, __dlerror, __dlexit, __dlsym3
+	__dlopen, __dlclose, __dlsym, __dlerror, __dlexit, __dlsym3, __dladdr
 };
 
        void		xprintf __P((char *, ...));
@@ -302,11 +305,13 @@
 	struct so_map		*main_map;
 	struct so_map		*smp;
 	char			*add_paths;
+	char			*main_path;
 
 	/* Check version */
 	if (version != CRT_VERSION_BSD_2 &&
 	    version != CRT_VERSION_BSD_3 &&
 	    version != CRT_VERSION_BSD_4 &&
+	    version != CRT_VERSION_BSD_5 &&
 	    version != CRT_VERSION_SUN)
 		return -1;
 
@@ -335,6 +340,8 @@
 		__progname = crtp->crt_ldso;
 	if (version >= CRT_VERSION_BSD_3)
 		main_progname = crtp->crt_prog;
+	main_path = version >= CRT_VERSION_BSD_5 ? crtp->crt_argv[0] :
+	    main_progname;
 
 	/* Some buggy versions of crt0.o have crt_ldso filled in as NULL. */
 	if (__progname == NULL)
@@ -363,7 +370,7 @@
 	anon_open();
 
 	/* Make a link map entry for the main program */
-	main_map = alloc_link_map(main_progname,
+	main_map = alloc_link_map(main_path,
 			     (struct sod *) NULL, (struct so_map *) NULL,
 			     (caddr_t) 0, crtp->crt_dp);
 	LM_PRIVATE(main_map)->spd_refcount++;
@@ -453,7 +460,7 @@
 	(void)close(crtp->crt_ldfd);
 	anon_close();
 
-	return LDSO_VERSION_HAS_DLSYM3;
+	return LDSO_VERSION_HAS_DLADDR;
 }
 
 void
@@ -2022,6 +2029,81 @@
 		addr += (long)src_map->som_addr;
 
 	return (void *)addr;
+}
+
+static int
+__dladdr __P((void *addr, Dl_info *dlip))
+{
+	struct _dynamic	*dp;
+	struct so_map	*smp;
+	char		*stringbase;
+	long		 numsyms;
+	int		 symsize;
+	int		 i;
+
+	/* Find the shared object that contains the address. */
+	for (smp = link_map_head;  smp != NULL;  smp = smp->som_next) {
+		struct so_map		*src_map;
+		struct somap_private	*smpp;
+		struct nzlist		*np;
+
+		smpp = LM_PRIVATE(smp);
+		if (smpp->spd_flags & RTLD_RTLD)
+			continue;
+
+		if ((void *)smp->som_addr > addr)
+			continue;
+
+		src_map = smp;
+		if ((np = lookup(END_SYM, &src_map, 1)) == NULL)
+			continue;	/* No "_end" symbol?! */
+		if (addr < (void *)(smp->som_addr + np->nz_value))
+			break;
+	}
+	if (smp == NULL) {
+		generror("No shared object contains address");
+		return 0;
+	}
+	dlip->dli_fname = smp->som_path;
+	dlip->dli_fbase = smp->som_addr;
+	dlip->dli_saddr = (void *) 0;
+	dlip->dli_sname = NULL;
+
+	dp = smp->som_dynamic;
+	symsize	= LD_VERSION_NZLIST_P(dp->d_version) ?
+	    sizeof(struct nzlist) : sizeof(struct nlist);
+	numsyms = LD_STABSZ(dp) / symsize;
+	stringbase = LM_STRINGS(smp);
+
+	for (i = 0;  i < numsyms;  i++) {
+		struct nzlist	*symp = LM_SYMBOL(smp, i);
+		unsigned long	 value;
+
+		/* Reject all except definitions. */
+		if (symp->nz_type != N_EXT + N_ABS &&
+		    symp->nz_type != N_EXT + N_TEXT &&
+		    symp->nz_type != N_EXT + N_DATA &&
+		    symp->nz_type != N_EXT + N_BSS)
+			continue;
+
+		/*
+		 * If the symbol is greater than the specified address, or
+		 * if it is further away from addr than the current nearest
+		 * symbol, then reject it.
+		 */
+		value = (unsigned long) (smp->som_addr + symp->nz_value);
+		if (value > (unsigned long) addr ||
+		    value < (unsigned long) dlip->dli_saddr)
+			continue;
+
+		/* Update our idea of the nearest symbol. */
+		dlip->dli_sname = stringbase + symp->nz_strx;
+		dlip->dli_saddr = (void *) value;
+
+		if (dlip->dli_saddr == addr)	/* Can't get any closer. */
+		    break;
+	}
+	return 1;
 }
 
 static void *

--===_0_Sun_Jan_18_14:47:15_PST_1998--



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 15:06:52 1998
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To: Ted Buswell <tbuswell@mediaone.net>
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	I have similar problem with xdm. When I run netscape on Xwindows
running from xdm I get "netscape out of memory" error after some time of
use. Any idea on how can I fix xdm to allow more resources for users?
Thanks,

-- yan

On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Ted Buswell wrote:

>>>>>> "Chris" == Chris Toshok <toshok@netscape.com> writes:
>
>    Chris> I've upped every conceivable limit that I run across, and I
>    Chris> still get
>    Chris> gdb: virtual memory exhausted: can't allocate 4072 bytes.
>
>What does the output of 'limits' look like?  Does it look like what
>you would expect based on your /etc/login.conf?
>
>    Chris> when I try to debug netscape.  The gdb process never gets
>
>If you login via xdm you are going to get a possibly very different 
>set of limits than if you login to the console and then run 'startx'.
>
>-Ted
>


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 15:17:34 1998
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Subject: Re: New typedefs in sys/types.h
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:28:18 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199801181936.UAA22085@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> from "Oliver Fromme" at Jan 18, 98 08:36:40 pm
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+-----[ Oliver Fromme ]------------------------------
| 
| To make a long story short, I'd vote for LP64, that is, 8 bit
| chars, 16 bit shorts, 32 bit ints, 64 bit longs and pointers.
| Maybe even 128 bit long long (BTW, the upcoming C9X standard
| even legalizes "long long").

I would still like int to be the 'best' size of an int for performance
on a piece of hardware. In any case I thought these things were determined
by the compiler, not the operating system, so someone is still free to
write a compiler that ignores your favourite sizes. (I never did quite
manage to work out how they were 'determined' by the compiler, all the 
compiler classes I did, assumed you knew how big your registers were).

I don't understand why 'FreeBSD' has to define the size of these things,
when all this time I've been led to believe that it was 'compiler dependant,'
(wrt sizeof(int)).

Quite frankly if you _rely_ on int being 32 signed bits, your code sucks,
or at least is very non-portable (which I consider to be the same thing,
but, then I'm strange like that....mostly linux code too for some reason,
bastards probably do it on purpose).

Anyway my system of beliefs is crumbling so I'm going now.

-- 
  ,-_|\  SneakerNet       |     Andrew Milton    |    GSM: +61(41)6 022 411
 /     \ P.O. Box 154     |  akm@sneaker.net.au  |    Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233
 \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233
      v  NSW 2137      | Low cost Internet Solutions |

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 15:22:52 1998
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From: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
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To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Cc: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>, jdp@polstra.com,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: dladdr hax 
In-Reply-To: <199801182223.OAA19901@rah.star-gate.com>
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	<199801182223.OAA19901@rah.star-gate.com>
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Amancio Hasty writes:
> {hasty} pwd
> /usr/home/hasty
> {hasty} ./test
> argv[0] ./test 
> getcwd /usr/home/hasty 
> {hasty} /tmp/test
> argv[0] /tmp/test 
> getcwd /usr/home/hasty 
> 
> Now it looks to me that we have enough information to reconstruct the 
> the execution path.

You've *GOT* to be kidding right?

Put the program anywhere in your PATH, and then tell me where it's
located by not supplying the entire path to the executuable, aka.

{hasty} cp test /usr/local/bin/tst
{hasty} tst
argv[0] tst
getcwd /usr/home/hosty
{ hasty }

How does any of the above information tell us that 'tst' lives in
/usr/local/bin?


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 15:31:06 1998
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Message-ID: <19980119100023.28093@lemis.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:00:23 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Jan Koum <jkb@best.com>
Cc: Ted Buswell <tbuswell@mediaone.net>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: user limits, login.conf, etc.
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On Sun, Jan 18, 1998 at 03:06:07PM -0800, Jan Koum wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Ted Buswell wrote:
>
>>>>>>> "Chris" == Chris Toshok <toshok@netscape.com> writes:
>>
>>    Chris> I've upped every conceivable limit that I run across, and I
>>    Chris> still get
>>    Chris> gdb: virtual memory exhausted: can't allocate 4072 bytes.
>>
>> What does the output of 'limits' look like?  Does it look like what
>> you would expect based on your /etc/login.conf?
>>
>>    Chris> when I try to debug netscape.  The gdb process never gets
>>
>> If you login via xdm you are going to get a possibly very different
>> set of limits than if you login to the console and then run 'startx'.
>
> 	I have similar problem with xdm. When I run netscape on Xwindows
> running from xdm I get "netscape out of memory" error after some time of
> use. Any idea on how can I fix xdm to allow more resources for users?

This sounds like a simple limits problem.  Have you set up
/etc/login.conf correctly?

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 15:46:50 1998
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Jan Koum wrote:
> 
>         I have similar problem with xdm. When I run netscape on Xwindows
> running from xdm I get "netscape out of memory" error after some time of
> use. Any idea on how can I fix xdm to allow more resources for users?
> Thanks,
> 
> -- yan

I get that also on 2.2-STABLE.  Doesn't seem to matter if I have xdm
running or not for me.  One of my FreeBSD boxes is headless, and I have
the display on my sun,  I still get exactly the same problem.  

I though for a while it was because I was only running 32MB, but it
still happens now that I have 64MB.

-bill

-- 
William Lloyd (wlloyd@mpd.ca)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 16:01:37 1998
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To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Patch for dladdr (was: dladdr hax)
In-Reply-To: <199801182250.OAA16054@austin.polstra.com>
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> Apply this in "/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld", then do a make; make install.
> 
> Index: rtld.c
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld/rtld.c,v
> retrieving revision 1.51
> diff -u -Lrtld.c -r1.51 rtld.c
> --- rtld.c
> +++ rtld.c	1998/01/18 22:20:23
...
> +static int		__dladdr __P((void *, Dl_info *));
....
> @@ -2022,6 +2029,81 @@
>  		addr += (long)src_map->som_addr;
>  
>  	return (void *)addr;
> +}
> +
> +static int
> +__dladdr __P((void *addr, Dl_info *dlip))
??????

What kind of function definition is this. :) Simple fix, but
thought you might like to know.


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 16:05:17 1998
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To: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Patch for dladdr (was: dladdr hax) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:01:21 MST."
    <199801190001.RAA01671@mt.sri.com> 
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:04:48 -0800
From: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
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> > +static int
> > +__dladdr __P((void *addr, Dl_info *dlip))
> ??????
> 
> What kind of function definition is this. :) Simple fix, but
> thought you might like to know.

Oops!  Thanks.  It should still compile OK, though.  Didn't it?

John

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 16:13:43 1998
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Subject: Re: Patch for dladdr (was: dladdr hax) 
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> > > +static int
> > > +__dladdr __P((void *addr, Dl_info *dlip))
> > ??????
> > 
> > What kind of function definition is this. :) Simple fix, but
> > thought you might like to know.
> 
> Oops!  Thanks.  It should still compile OK, though.  Didn't it?

I don't know, I applied the patch by hand and caught it that way.  It
*should* work with any ANSI compiler, but a K&R compiler wouldn't have a
chance of compiling it. :)



Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 16:19:15 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:14:59 +0000
To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
From: Bob Bishop <rb@gid.co.uk>
Subject: Re: dladdr hax
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At 8:59 pm +0000 18/1/98, John Polstra wrote:
>Could somebody with access to a Solaris machine please compile and
>run the attached program, and send me its output?

isultra% ./xx
argv[0] = ./xx
&end = 20c00
&foo = 20bfc:
  fname = ./xx
  fbase = 10000
  sname = foo
  saddr = 20bfc
&bar = 20bf4:
  fname = ./xx
  fbase = 10000
  sname = bar
  saddr = 20bf4
&main = 10898:
  fname = ./xx
  fbase = 10000
  sname = main
  saddr = 10898
&printf = 20bac:
  fname = ./xx
  fbase = 10000
  sname = _PROCEDURE_LINKAGE_TABLE_
  saddr = 20b58
&setuid = 20bc4:
  fname = ./xx
  fbase = 10000
  sname = _PROCEDURE_LINKAGE_TABLE_
  saddr = 20b58
isultra%


--
Bob Bishop              (0118) 977 4017  international code +44 118
rb@gid.co.uk        fax (0118) 989 4254  between 0800 and 1800 UK



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 16:23:05 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:08:32 +0000
From: Mark Ovens <markov@globalnet.co.uk>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------8B9E4AC2245056D33BB71C01
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--------------3A187430128426D4EF202600
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Hi Sujal,
    I've been using your ISA PnP code from CD 3 on FreeBSD 2.2.5 and in
the README you asked for questions and/or comments, so here goes:

    I have 2 PnP devices in my PC, a Pine Megawave Gold sound card,
which is a cheap SB-compatible Yamaha OPL3-SA2 device, and a Pace 56
Voice modem (internal ISA card).

    Neither of these would work under FreeBSD until I found your code.
After patching the kernel, running pnpinfo, editing the kernel config
file, and building a new kernel the sound card now works :-), but I
still can't get the modem working :-(. The PnP probe finds the modem and
configures it, but the sio probes still can't find it.

    I've tried several (about 5) different sets of values in the cinfo[]
struct in pnp.c but still no success so I've attached a gzip'd tar
containing my pnp.c, the output from pnpinfo, and the output from dmesg
(booting with '-v') in the hope that you can help me.

    I've disabled the on-board COM2 (IRQ 3 0x2f8) so that the modem can
use it (this is what it uses under Win95, even with the COM2 port
enabled) and the mouse is on COM1 (IRQ3 0x3f8) which is found by sio0.

    I should add that the modem has worked twice under FreeBSD (without
your PnP enabler). I also run Win95 & NT4 on my PC and both times the
modem has worked has been after warm booting after using one of the
other OS's, although I haven't been able to identify exactly what the
circumstances were.

    On both these occasions I've logged onto my ISP (using User PPP) and
have achieved d/l speeds of over 5k/sec, but Windows can't even manage
4k/sec <g>. So I'm very keen to get the modem working properly under
FreeBSD.

    Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated, and you can
add the soundcard to the "known to work with" list.

Thanks in advance,

Mark Ovens

<markov@globalnet.co.uk>

--------------3A187430128426D4EF202600
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
<TT>Hi Sujal,</TT>
<BR><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've been using your ISA PnP code from CD 3
on FreeBSD 2.2.5 and in the README you asked for questions and/or comments,
so here goes:</TT>

<P><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have 2 PnP devices in my PC, a Pine Megawave
Gold sound card, which is a cheap SB-compatible Yamaha OPL3-SA2 device,
and a Pace 56 Voice modem (internal ISA card).</TT>

<P><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Neither of these would work under FreeBSD until
I found your code. After patching the kernel, running pnpinfo, editing
the kernel config file, and building a new kernel the sound card now works
:-), but I still can't get the modem working :-(. The PnP probe finds the
modem and configures it, but the sio probes still can't find it.</TT>

<P><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've tried several (about 5) different sets of
values in the cinfo[] struct in pnp.c but still no success so I've attached
a gzip'd tar containing my pnp.c, the output from pnpinfo, and the output
from dmesg (booting with '-v') in the hope that you can help me.</TT>

<P><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've disabled the on-board COM2 (IRQ 3 0x2f8)
so that the modem can use it (this is what it uses under Win95, even with
the COM2 port enabled) and the mouse is on COM1 (IRQ3 0x3f8) which is found
by sio0.</TT>

<P><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I should add that the modem has worked twice
under FreeBSD (without your PnP enabler). I also run Win95 &amp; NT4 on
my PC and both times the modem has worked has been after warm booting after
using one of the other OS's, although I haven't been able to identify exactly
what the circumstances were.</TT>

<P><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On both these occasions I've logged onto my ISP
(using User PPP) and have achieved d/l speeds of over 5k/sec, but Windows
can't even manage 4k/sec &lt;g>. So I'm very keen to get the modem working
properly under FreeBSD.</TT>

<P><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated,
and you can add the soundcard to the "known to work with" list.</TT>

<P><TT>Thanks in advance,</TT>

<P><TT>Mark Ovens</TT>

<P><TT>&lt;markov@globalnet.co.uk></TT></HTML>

--------------3A187430128426D4EF202600--

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--------------8B9E4AC2245056D33BB71C01--




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 16:58:33 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:56:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Timmons <skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu>
To: William Lloyd <wlloyd@mpd.ca>
cc: Jan Koum <jkb@best.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: user limits, login.conf, etc.
In-Reply-To: <34C29027.D1D42DB3@mpd.ca>
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If you are tracking -stable on a machine first installed as 2.2(.*), you
might want to see that you have the latest /etc/login.conf copied from
/usr/src/etc/login.conf by hand, and then do a 'cap_mkdb login.conf'.

If that doesn't solve your problems, are you starting xdm from rc.local?
You could put 'ulimit -a' just ahead of the call to xdm to see what limits
are in effect as inherited from the daemon login class from login.conf.

If the whole business of login.conf disgusts you, the limits for root are
pretty permissive; rather than tweaking the daemon class you could just
start xdm with root's resource limits:

	/usr/bin/limits -C root /usr/X11R6/bin/xdm

(an example which was pointed out to me by someone on this list when I was
having the same trouble.)

"Painnnnnn" - Spock during mindmeld with Horta who is thrashing with
login.conf problems. 

-Chris

On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, William Lloyd wrote:

> Jan Koum wrote:
> > 
> >         I have similar problem with xdm. When I run netscape on Xwindows
> > running from xdm I get "netscape out of memory" error after some time of
> > use. Any idea on how can I fix xdm to allow more resources for users?
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > -- yan
> 
> I get that also on 2.2-STABLE.  Doesn't seem to matter if I have xdm
> running or not for me.  One of my FreeBSD boxes is headless, and I have
> the display on my sun,  I still get exactly the same problem.  
> 
> I though for a while it was because I was only running 32MB, but it
> still happens now that I have 64MB.
> 
> -bill
> 
> -- 
> William Lloyd (wlloyd@mpd.ca)
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 18:47:44 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97
To: "Duane H. Hesser" <dhh@androcles.com>
cc: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
        danny@panda.hilink.com.au, tom@sdf.com (Tom)
Subject: Re: 2nd call for comments: New option for newsyslog 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:15:48 -0800."
             <XFMail.980118082245.dhh@androcles.com> 
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:09:36 +1030
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> 
> On 17-Jan-98 Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> >Maybe it would be better to make a generic shell script to do file
> >rotation.  It would need some flags, like gzip compression needed,
> >etc.  It could be used by user scripts also.  I have some that would
> >be much simpler with such program available.
> >
> 
> The smail 3 distribution contains a shell script 'savelog' which does this
> very nicely. FYI, Here are the comments from the script.

newsyslog already does all of this; please read the manpage carefully.

Danny; FWIW, I think you should be looking at extending the parsing of 
the interval field.  In order to remain similar to cron, I'd suggest:

@daily
@weekly
@monthly
@yearly
@<time>[:<dayname>[,<dayname>...]]

This covers just about every possible case.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 20:02:41 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:01:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Open Systems Networking <opsys@mail.webspan.net>
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To: William Lloyd <wlloyd@mpd.ca>
cc: Jan Koum <jkb@best.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: user limits, login.conf, etc.
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I had the same problemw ith entscape running out of memory, and i THOUGHT
i had fixed it with adding the login class to /etc/passwd, and making my
own .login class file. Nope didnt work. I had to rm myself do adduser
again and use addusers, login class feature, and it worked fine.
I didn't investigate why my attempts failed and adduser using a "root"
login class worked, but it did. Thats how i fixed it. just used adduser to
add myself to a "root" login class.

Works fine now.

Chris

--

===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting.
  FreeBSD 2.2.5 is available now!  | Phone: 316-326-6800
-----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152
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=BBjp
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 20:45:45 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:47:18 -0500
From: Mark Mayo <mark@vmunix.com>
To: Wilko Bulte <wilko@yedi.iaf.nl>
Cc: FreeBSD hackers list <FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: experiences with Motorola Bitsurfr ISDN TA
References: <199801161738.SAA13832@yedi.iaf.nl>
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On Fri, Jan 16, 1998 at 06:38:45PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I've made a small trade and I obtained a Motorola Bitsurfr Pro ISDN TA.
> 
> I'm now looking for experiences with this box, preferably in Europe/
> The Netherlands (same ISDN implementation etc). But of course US experiences
> are also welcome!

I'm sure we must be talking about a different thing, but the Bitsurfer
Pro I have (an external) works just like a modem.. plug it into a
serial port and let ijppp go wild on it :-)

I only use it with a single channel, and it performs/works admirably.
At 64K, the serial ports seems to be able to keep up just fine as well..

-Mark

> 
> If I get it working I'll write up a story 'bout it for the handbook.
> 
> TIA
> _     ______________________________________________________________________
>  |   / o / /  _  Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko
>  |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try'
> ---------------  Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix  --

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Mayo		  				mark@vmunix.com       
 RingZero Comp.  	  		    http://www.vmunix.com/mark 

	 finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to
an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor,
written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition.  -UGU

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 20:57:06 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:46:15 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199801190446.PAA27810@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: bde@zeta.org.au, pst@juniper.net
Subject: Re: isdisk() kludge in kernel
Cc: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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>> >I was looking at isdisk and wanted to hurl chunks.
>> >
>> >This is used by spec_open to determine if we should be allowed to open a
>> >disk device when securelevel >= 1.
>> 
>> It isn't even used in -current.
>
>I think it is, the flag gets set elsewhere.

No it isn't.  Individual device drivers know whether they are for disks
and set the flag accordingly.  This should be fairly easy to merge
into 2.2.  The d_flags field is in both 2.2 and -current, although
it seems to be unused in 2.2 and is bogusly refered to as d_type in a
comment in conf.h in -current (*), so you just need to set it in all
the disk drivers and check it in isdisk() or inline.

(*) We got the comment but not the code from Lite2.  d_flags is only in
the bdevsw; the flags for cdevs are assumed to be the same as for bdevs.
We're missing Lite2's fix for dead_read() on ttys because there is
nowhere to set D_TTY for ttys.

Bruce

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To: dennis <dennis@etinc.com>
cc: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:59:30 CDT."
             <3.0.32.19980114095929.00f92c20@etinc.com> 
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> A clear and growing problem with the FreeBSD camp is that no one
> cares about the RELEASES, which is what most of the real world is
> using. telling me that a bug was fixed in 3.0 in March and still hasnt
> made it into a release explains why the releases over the past year
> have been rather disappointing with much of the FreeBSD talent's
> focus elsewhere.

This highlights the fact that *you* should be pulling changes back from 
-current, testing them in your obviously well-equipped lab with your 
obvious amounts of spare time, and forwarding changes for committing.

The "problem" is that people like you would prefer to carp on about 
nobody caring rather than actually caring yourself. 

If you are willing to *guarantee* that you will look at one major 
bugfix per week that's made it into -current, backport it to -stable,
test it (and I'd bet you can find a few people to help there), I will
match your guarantee with my own; that your diffs *will* be attended 
to in a timely fashion, and they *will* make it into the next release 
off the -stable line.

> The de driver is another illustration of that.

The 'de' driver receives continued attention from various people, most 
notably Peter Wemm.  If we were to follow every one of Matt's updates 
in -stable, people would be screaming a lot louder than they do now.

> >It is wrong if userland can make a kernel panic, I agree.  If kernel
> >bugs can make the kernel panic, that is OK by me.
> 
> If an add-on driver makes a bad call a warning should be printed and the 
> operation refused. Its time that FreeBSD recognize that 3rd party
> software exists (especially with loadable modules) and that errors
> aren't confined to core team's test beds.

I don't think you have thought this through very carefully.  Many 
of the interfaces presented to a driver are not procedural; straight 
memory access not being the least of these.  In most cases, where it is 
possible and reasonable to vet arguments to a function, they are 
vetted.  Generally however it is expected that callers will supply 
sensible arguments to functions; if they don't then you have a bug that 
should be caught by the developer during testing, and a panic is a 
simple means of ensuring this.

If a vendor produces a buggy add-on driver, the problem is *solely* the 
vendor's.
-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 21:59:16 1998
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Cc: William Lloyd <wlloyd@mpd.ca>, Jan Koum <jkb@best.com>,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: user limits, login.conf, etc.
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 19 Jan 1998 06:58:44 +0100
In-Reply-To: Chris Timmons's message of "Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:56:34 -0800 (PST)"
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Chris Timmons <skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu> writes:
> If you are tracking -stable on a machine first installed as 2.2(.*), you
> might want to see that you have the latest /etc/login.conf copied from
> /usr/src/etc/login.conf by hand, and then do a 'cap_mkdb login.conf'.
> 
> If that doesn't solve your problems, are you starting xdm from rc.local?
> You could put 'ulimit -a' just ahead of the call to xdm to see what limits
> are in effect as inherited from the daemon login class from login.conf.

I have a similar problem. Lemme see...

If I log in at the console, I get the following (as expected):

finrod@valinor ~$ ulimit -a
core file size (blocks)     unlimited
data seg size (kbytes)      524288
file size (blocks)          unlimited
max locked memory (kbytes)  unlimited
max memory size (kbytes)    32768
open files                  1024
pipe size (512 bytes)       1
stack size (kbytes)         65536
cpu time (seconds)          unlimited
max user processes          64
virtual memory (kbytes)     589824

In an xterm under X (I use xdm and start it from rc.local), I get
these (obviously wrong) limits:

finrod@valinor ~$ ulimit -a
core file size (blocks)     0
data seg size (kbytes)      16384
file size (blocks)          65536
max locked memory (kbytes)  65536
max memory size (kbytes)    65536
open files                  64
pipe size (512 bytes)       1
stack size (kbytes)         8192
cpu time (seconds)          unlimited
max user processes          32
virtual memory (kbytes)     24576

This is driving me nuts - it's barely enough for Fvwm2, Emacs and a
couple of man pages, forget about actually *compiling* your programs.

However, if I do an 'su - finrod' and then 'ulimit -a', I get the same
results as at the console.

User 'finrod' belongs to login class 'adm' which has nothing but 'tc=root'.

I think the short version of this story is "login classes are still
broken in 2.2.5-STABLE".

OBTW, limits(1) is absolutely no use, since I must be in login class
root (or adm) to even be allowed to use it.

-- 
 * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
  RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sun Jan 18 22:56:55 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199801190438.FAA24257@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: PnP devices under FreeBSD
To: markov@globalnet.co.uk (Mark Ovens)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 05:38:38 +0100 (MET)
Cc: smpatel@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <34C21AF0.DBD03056@globalnet.co.uk> from "Mark Ovens" at Jan 18, 98 03:08:13 pm
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> Hi Sujal,
>     I've been using your ISA PnP code from CD 3 on FreeBSD 2.2.5 and in
> the README you asked for questions and/or comments, so here goes:

on the same CD, under luigi-snd or something like that near Sujal code,
you can find updated support for PnP devices (and even for your audio
card). You might try that code, which is an improved version of Sujal's
code and much easier to reconfigure.

	Cheers
	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 00:30:26 1998
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Message-Id: <199801190829.JAA24199@sos.freebsd.dk>
Subject: Re: elf and -current
In-Reply-To: <199801172243.OAA06576@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Jan 17, 98 02:43:43 pm"
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:29:31 +0100 (MET)
Cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Søren Schmidt <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
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In reply to Amancio Hasty who wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to build the elf tool chain in 3.0 -current on my test box.
> 3.0 -current is the October 6 Snapshot.
> 
> Also has anyone managed to build the elf tool-chain with gcc-2.8?
> with gcc-2.8 the dynamic loader bombs out 

Why on earth would you want to use gcc-2.8 ??
Getting tha system ELF'ified is errorprone enough, you dont need extra
"help" from a new (potentially) buggy compiler....

> I sprinkle some prints in rtld.c :
> 
>  ~hasty/elfkit/tests/hello
> a 
> ee 
> digest dynamic tag  16 
> digest dynamic tag  15 
> digest dynamic tag  4 
> digest dynamic tag  5 
> digest dynamic tag  6 
> digest dynamic tag  10 
> digest dynamic tag  11 
> digest dynamic tag  17 
> digest dynamic tag  18 
> digest dynamic tag  19 
> digest dynamic tag  22 
> text rel 
> c 
> e 
> oops: 825
> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
> 
>  digest_dynamic(&obj_rtld);
>     xprintf("c \n");
>     assert(obj_rtld.needed == NULL);
>     xprintf("e \n");
>     assert(!obj_rtld.textrel);   <<< this is where it dies
>     xprintf("elast \n");
>     
> 
> ---- 
> 
> Attempt to build native elf cc....
> 
> 
> # setenv BINFORMAT elf
> # make
> ===> cc_tools
> echo '#include "i386/freebsd-elf.h"' > tm.h
> echo '#include "i386/xm-freebsd.h"'  > config.h
> echo '#include "i386/xm-freebsd.h"'  > hconfig.h
> echo '#include "i386/xm-freebsd.h"'  > tconfig.h
> echo '#include "cp/lang-options.h"'  > options.h
> echo '#include "cp/lang-specs.h"'    > specs.h
> echo '#include "f2c-specs.h"'        >> specs.h
> Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_tools
> ===> cc_int
> Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int
> ===> cpp
> Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cpp
> ===> cc1
> Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc1
> ===> cc
> Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc
> ===> cc1obj
> Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc1obj
> ===> cc1plus
> Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc1plus
> ===> c++
> Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/c++
> ===> f77
> Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/f77
> ===> libgcc
> Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libg
> cc
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cc/cc -B/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cc1
> / -B/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cpp/ -c -O -pipe -DFREEBSD_ELF 
> -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../../../../contrib/gcc 
> -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../../../../contrib/gcc/config 
> -DFREEBSD_NATIVE -DDEFAULT_TARGET_VERSION=\"2.7.2.1\" 
> -DDEFAULT_TARGET_MACHINE=\"i386-unknown-freebsdelf\" 
> -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cc_tools -DL_divdi3 -o _divdi3.o 
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../../../../contrib/gcc/libgcc2.c
> *unknown*: Assembler messages:
> *unknown*:0: Warning: /usr/bin/as: I don't understand 'Q' flag.
> *unknown*:0: Warning: /usr/bin/as: I don't understand 'y' flag.
> {standard input}:4: Error: Unknown pseudo-op:  `.section'
> *** Error code 1
> 
> Stop.
> *** Error code 1
> 
> 
> 	Tnks,
> 	Amancio
> 
> 
> 


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 00:38:40 1998
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Subject: Re: elf and -current 
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Hi, 

I managed to build the tool chain and gcc-2.8 appears to work.

For instance , I compiled a speech recognition C++ library
which was bombing out with the stock gcc.

Now my most pressing problem is compiling gdb to support elf .


	Tnks,
	Amancio

> In reply to Amancio Hasty who wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I am trying to build the elf tool chain in 3.0 -current on my test box.
> > 3.0 -current is the October 6 Snapshot.
> > 
> > Also has anyone managed to build the elf tool-chain with gcc-2.8?
> > with gcc-2.8 the dynamic loader bombs out 
> 
> Why on earth would you want to use gcc-2.8 ??
> Getting tha system ELF'ified is errorprone enough, you dont need extra
> "help" from a new (potentially) buggy compiler....
> 
> > I sprinkle some prints in rtld.c :
> > 
> >  ~hasty/elfkit/tests/hello
> > a 
> > ee 
> > digest dynamic tag  16 
> > digest dynamic tag  15 
> > digest dynamic tag  4 
> > digest dynamic tag  5 
> > digest dynamic tag  6 
> > digest dynamic tag  10 
> > digest dynamic tag  11 
> > digest dynamic tag  17 
> > digest dynamic tag  18 
> > digest dynamic tag  19 
> > digest dynamic tag  22 
> > text rel 
> > c 
> > e 
> > oops: 825
> > Segmentation fault (core dumped)
> > 
> >  digest_dynamic(&obj_rtld);
> >     xprintf("c \n");
> >     assert(obj_rtld.needed == NULL);
> >     xprintf("e \n");
> >     assert(!obj_rtld.textrel);   <<< this is where it dies
> >     xprintf("elast \n");
> >     
> > 
> > ---- 
> > 
> > Attempt to build native elf cc....
> > 
> > 
> > # setenv BINFORMAT elf
> > # make
> > ===> cc_tools
> > echo '#include "i386/freebsd-elf.h"' > tm.h
> > echo '#include "i386/xm-freebsd.h"'  > config.h
> > echo '#include "i386/xm-freebsd.h"'  > hconfig.h
> > echo '#include "i386/xm-freebsd.h"'  > tconfig.h
> > echo '#include "cp/lang-options.h"'  > options.h
> > echo '#include "cp/lang-specs.h"'    > specs.h
> > echo '#include "f2c-specs.h"'        >> specs.h
> > Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
> > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_tools
> > ===> cc_int
> > Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
> > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int
> > ===> cpp
> > Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cpp
> > ===> cc1
> > Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc1
> > ===> cc
> > Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc
> > ===> cc1obj
> > Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
> > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc1obj
> > ===> cc1plus
> > Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
> > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc1plus
> > ===> c++
> > Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/c++
> > ===> f77
> > Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/f77
> > ===> libgcc
> > Warning: Object directory not changed from original 
> > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libg
> > cc
> > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cc/cc -B/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cc1
> > / -B/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cpp/ -c -O -pipe -DFREEBSD_ELF 
> > -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../../../../contrib/gcc 
> > -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../../../../contrib/gcc/config 
> > -DFREEBSD_NATIVE -DDEFAULT_TARGET_VERSION=\"2.7.2.1\" 
> > -DDEFAULT_TARGET_MACHINE=\"i386-unknown-freebsdelf\" 
> > -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../cc_tools -DL_divdi3 -o _divdi3.o 
> > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc/../../../../contrib/gcc/libgcc2.c
> > *unknown*: Assembler messages:
> > *unknown*:0: Warning: /usr/bin/as: I don't understand 'Q' flag.
> > *unknown*:0: Warning: /usr/bin/as: I don't understand 'y' flag.
> > {standard input}:4: Error: Unknown pseudo-op:  `.section'
> > *** Error code 1
> > 
> > Stop.
> > *** Error code 1
> > 
> > 
> > 	Tnks,
> > 	Amancio
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
>                 Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
> ..



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 00:58:31 1998
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From: Vadim Nosovsky <vlad@nobulus.tn.odessa.ua>
Message-Id: <199801190855.KAA13059@nobulus.tn.odessa.ua>
Subject: Eicon under FreeBSD
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Hi!

Does anybody run Eicon Card under FreeBSD?

vlad.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 02:50:46 1998
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> TCP doesn't know or care from chararacters or other datatypes;
> it simply provides you a full-duplex reliable octet stream
> between two endpoints. You encode your characters, integers,
> floating point numbers, etc. as you see fit.

> This is similar to asking if the UNIX filesystem has provisions
> for storing "wide characters in files"; the FS doesn't care
> what's inside it's files.

Though that's technically right, one might feel the need for a standard if
the files he writes are going to be read by other people's programs. Of
course TCP, by itself, provides all support you need to send the
characters, but ignoring the practical problems would be akin to keeping to
IP (vs TCP or UDP) because that's all you _really_ need...

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 03:17:26 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:16:31 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: "Duane H. Hesser" <dhh@androcles.com>,
        Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Tom <tom@sdf.com>
Subject: Re: 2nd call for comments: New option for newsyslog 
In-Reply-To: <199801190239.NAA00650@word.smith.net.au>
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On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Mike Smith wrote:

> > >Maybe it would be better to make a generic shell script to do file
> > >rotation.  It would need some flags, like gzip compression needed,
> > >etc.  It could be used by user scripts also.  I have some that would
> > >be much simpler with such program available.
> > >

[..snip..]
 
> Danny; FWIW, I think you should be looking at extending the parsing of 
> the interval field.  In order to remain similar to cron, I'd suggest:
> 
> @daily
> @weekly
> @monthly
> @yearly
> @<time>[:<dayname>[,<dayname>...]]
> 
> This covers just about every possible case.

I thought of this, initially, but I had difficulties with the daylight 
savings changeover problem, where the same event happens twice in 
"localtime".  This should be fixed in cron, if it isn't already.  As Tom 
pointed out, if you are going to be extremely similar to cron, why not 
just use cron.

I'm now leaning towards a logrotate command which can be called from cron 
directly, or from within shell scripts which are run from cron.

Danny


/*  Daniel O'Callaghan                                                     */
/*  HiLink Internet <http://www.hilink.com.au/>       danny@hilink.com.au  */
/*  FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard...                 danny@freebsd.org  */


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 03:54:53 1998
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Just a brief note of thanks to everyone that helped me. The driver is now
working, though with still a few rough edges. Special thanks to Julian,
whose device driver creation script most certainly enormously (sp?) reduced
the pain of creating my first (Unix) dd. Now, if he would only commit the
fixes I sent him... ;-) Except for the last one, doubling the backlashes on
a macro, which seems not to work.

Now, for a few more questions, regarding those few rough edges and related
subjects... :-)

1) It would be nice if the driver would compile both under 3.0 and 2.2.
Now, I realise this is not _really_ possible, because the define I have to
check does not depend on what you are compiling for, but on what the gcc
was compiled under. Now, if someone would tell me _what_ this define name,
I'd be really grateful. Again, if there is any driver in the 3.0 tree that
does this trick already (same driver under both 3.0 and 2.2), would someone
kindly indicate it to me?

2) Would someone document *somewhere* what the hell is the syscon key code
that's supposed to bring up the kernel debugger? I had to USTL for this.
Worse of all was the handbook, which _mentioned_ it's existance, but failed
to give it's name.

3) And, btw of documenting things what would be the easiest way of learning
how to write a man page?
4) Last of all, drivernameread() and drivernamewrite() receive an ioflag
parameter, but I could not find any mention of what these flags might be.
References, anyone?

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 04:12:07 1998
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From: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@efn.org>
To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Device Driver
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Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
Organization: Cu Networking
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daniel_sobral@voga.com.br scribbled this message on Jan 19:
> 3) And, btw of documenting things what would be the easiest way of learning
> how to write a man page?

/usr/share/examples/mdoc/example.[134], man mdoc, man mdoc.samples are
all great references...

-- 
  John-Mark Gurney                          Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954
  Cu Networking					  P.O. Box 5693, 97405

  Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 05:10:34 1998
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From: Jacques Fourie <jacques@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
Message-Id: <199801191307.PAA01429@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
Subject: Unable to open /dev/urandom when compiling with -lc_r
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:07:55 +0200 (SAT)
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Hi

I am unable to open /dev/urandom when compiling with -lc_r. The open() call
returns -1, with errno set to 25 (ENOTTY). Here is an example program : 


/* Doesn't Work when compiled with gcc rndtest.c -o rndtest -D_THREAD_SAFE -lc_r */
/* Works when compiled without the threaded c lib. */

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <pthread.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <errno.h>

main()
{
  int fd = -1;

  if((fd=open("/dev/urandom",O_RDONLY,0))==-1) {
    printf("Error : %d\n",errno);
    exit(1);
  }

  exit(0);
}

Any ideas ??
Jacques

/***********************************************************************\
| Jacques Fourie                                                        |
| Network System Engineer                                               |
| Nanoteq  									                                            |	
| Tel: +27-12-6651338        Email: jf@nanoteq.com       P.O Box 7991   |
| Fax: +27-12-6651343					                           Centurion	    |
|			                                    			         0046 			    |
|                                          							 South Africa   |
\***********************************************************************/
|Standard disclaimer:                              |
|All views expressed here are my own.						   |
|--------------------------------------------------|


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 05:55:55 1998
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
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Subject: Re: 2nd call for comments: New option for newsyslog
In-Reply-To: <199801190239.NAA00650@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Jan 19, 98 01:09:36 pm"
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:55:02 -0200 (EDT)
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#define quoting(Mike Smith)
// > On 17-Jan-98 Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote:
// > [snip]
// > >
// > >Maybe it would be better to make a generic shell script to do file
// > >rotation.  It would need some flags, like gzip compression needed,
// > >etc.  It could be used by user scripts also.  I have some that would
// > >be much simpler with such program available.
// > >
// > 
// > The smail 3 distribution contains a shell script 'savelog' which does this
// > very nicely. FYI, Here are the comments from the script.
// 
// newsyslog already does all of this; please read the manpage carefully.

Yup, but this kind of thing is useful out of newsyslog also.

					Jonny

--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis			jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698				jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro	UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2  83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 06:19:51 1998
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INFO

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 06:20:24 1998
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From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 06:20:26 1998
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HELP

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 06:40:45 1998
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Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami), jamie@itribe.net,
        jdevale@ece.cmu.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 19 Jan 1998 15:39:35 +0100
In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:19:47 +0000 (GMT)"
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Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> writes:
> If you:
> 
> 	#include <stdio.h>
> 
> 	main()
> 	{
> 		char    c = NULL;
> 
> 		printf( "The value of a NULL character is %d\n", c);
> 
> 		exit( 0);
> 	}
> 
> The program, when compiled, does not bitch about the "loss of precision"
> in the assignment in the declaration of 'c'.  8-).
> 
> The program, when run, displays:
> 
> 	The value of a NULL character is 0
> 
> I'd say the compiler says that 'c' is a "NULL character", until it
> bitches, properly, about the assignment.

Ahem.

Sorry for following up on a week-old article, but there's something
that needs straightening out here.

NULL is a macro that expands to 0. Some compiler vendors define it to
(void *)0 or whatever, which is useful in some cases, such as the
execl(2) functions, but mostly makes no difference.

Now the crux of the matter is that the ISO C standard states that 0 is
not only an integer literal, but also a pointer literal (or rather
*the* pointer literal, as all other literals need a cast to be used as
pointers) which translates into a bit pattern which is guaranteed not
to be a valid pointer on whichever platform you're working on. This is
why NULL expands to 0: because 0, when assigned to a pointer, means
NULL. Even if the NULL pointer, on your particular platform, is not
all bits zero, the literal 0 will translate to the NULL pointer.

Naturally, having the NULL pointer all bits zero (as it is on the
i386, and most modern architectures such as the motorola 68K, the MIPS
RISC or the Sun Sparc / UltraSparc) is very useful since global static
data is initialized to all bits zero upon startup, so global static
pointers are initialized to NULL.

Back to execl(2): this class of functions use varargs and expect their
argument lists to be terminated by a NULL pointer. Now, on a two's
complement platform with pointers and integers of the same size and an
all bits zero NULL pointer (i.e. any sane modern architecture) it
doesn't make a difference if the compiler thinks you're passing the
integer 0 or the NULL pointer, as their memory representation is
identical. However, on platforms where the NULL pointer is not all
bits zero, or where pointers are of a different size from integers,
the difference between the NULL pointer and the integer 0 is no longer
academic, and passing the integer 0 to execl(2) instead of a NULL
pointer can lead to unpleasant results. Finding the euphemism in the
previous sentence is left as an exercise to the reader. On those
platforms (which are more common than you might think - take the huge
memory model on an 80x86 in real mode, which has 16-bit integers but
32-bit pointers) it is useful to have NULL expand to (void *)0, as
this will force the compiler to interpret NULL as a pointer rather
than an integer.

Therefore, it is *perfectly correct* for the compiler to produce code
that outputs "The value of a NULL character is 0" from the source code
you give, since what you wrote is, in effect,

 		char    c = 0;

There is no loss of precision in the assignment, since you are
assigning a literal that fits well within 8 bits to an 8-bit signed
char. There is no type conversion needed. There is nothing fishy
whatsoever about the compiler's behaviour. If you're not convinced,
compile the source code with the -E switch (I assume you're using gcc)
which will dump the preprocessor output to stdout. You will see that
NULL expanded to 0. If you're still not convinced, feel free to
consult /usr/include/stdlib.h, the White Book, or, for that matter,
the text of the ISO C standard.

You also wrote the following

> Also, you're right that the standard allows for a non-zero value
> for NULL.  I don't know of anyone who uses this; it's pretty much
> in there to cause problems, like a lot of other "features", ie: the
> assumption that certain optimizations are allowable unless they are
> explicitly disallowed, etc..

The standard does *not* allow for a non-zero value of NULL. The
standard very clearly states that the literal 0, when assigned to a
pointer variable, evaluates to a NULL pointer. The standard does not,
however, say anything about the internal representation of a NULL
pointer. Wether or not a NULL pointer is all bits zero is
implementation-defined.

> So pretty much until you fix the compiler, I'm going to keep my
> terminology as fuzzy as the compiler's enforcement.

Again, nothing is wrong with the compiler. It's in perfect accordance
with the ISO C standard. Your use of NULL in "a NULL string" or "the
NULL character", however, is definitely incorrect. Instead, you should
use "an empty string" and "the NUL character" (only one L),
respectively.

Hope this cleared up what I consider a rather fundamental misunder-
standing of C pointer mechanics.

-- 
 * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
  RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 07:04:08 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:08:19 +0200 (EET)
From: Calin Andrian <calin@ibd.dbio.ro>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: APC Back UPS monitor
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Hi !

I searched all over the place for a monitoring package for APC backups and
did not find any. Finally I wrote a small driver and a monitoring daemon,
with good results.

I didn't use the sio driver because it seems (maybe I'm wrong) that once
you successfully open the tty port, both DTR and RTS go high, causing the
(dumb) backups to immediately shut down.

My package monitors the line-fail status and shuts down the system and the
UPS if the line is out for more than you-name-it seconds.

How could I make it public ?
(I mean if anybody is interested)

Calin


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 07:17:52 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:17:23 -0800
From: Josef Grosch <jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com>
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On Mon, Jan 19, 1998 at 12:22:32PM +0000, JULAVERO@midway.ensino.ibilce.unesp.br wrote:
> HELP
> 

You want to send this to majordomo@freebsd.org instead of
hackers@freebsd.org. 


Josef

-- 
Josef Grosch           | Another day closer to a |    FreeBSD 2.2.5
jgrosch@MooseRiver.com |   Micro$oft free world  | UNIX for the masses


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 08:09:00 1998
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To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Device Driver 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:55:05 -0300."
             <83256591.00459E20.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> 
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:56:25 -0800
Message-ID: <7395.885225385@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> 2) Would someone document *somewhere* what the hell is the syscon key code
> that's supposed to bring up the kernel debugger? I had to USTL for this.

Heh heh.  How do you think stuff like this _gets_ documented?  Someone
like you finds that its not doc'd, gets really annoyed, then submits
his diffs to the handbook or FAQ in order to prevent others from
having to go through the same learning process - without that level
of general annoyance, it's unlikely that anyone else will document it. :-)

Once you have your driver out of the way, maybe you want to send me
those diffs?  I'll be happy to review the english if you have any
worries about that.

> 3) And, btw of documenting things what would be the easiest way of learning
> how to write a man page?

Look at another man page. :-)

I'll let the device driver folks answer your other questions since
I'm not all that sure.

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 08:20:24 1998
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From: mika ruohotie <bsdhack@shadows.aeon.net>
Message-Id: <199801191624.SAA24956@shadows.aeon.net>
Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems...
In-Reply-To: <199801130436.WAA02770@detlev.UUCP> from Joel Ray Holveck at "Jan 13, 98 10:31:16 pm"
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:24:18 +0200 (EET)
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> Mika asked about making the splash screen stay on until somebody
> logged in.  <199801111402.QAA02310@shadows.aeon.net> I lost the
> original message, and the mailing list search (actually, all hub http
> requests) seems to be down, so I don't quite remember why.  Mika?

sorry, been working/offtown lately...

i'd like to see the splash staying up until a "magic" keys are pressed
so that our customers would see just if the firewall is running or not.

and this should rather be a splash so that they dont see the booting,
nor the possible system messages. [1]

> interact with a computer graphically, I'll use X.  Does anybody else
> have an opinion on this?

i defenitely prefer x.

> Also, in general, I agree that the pretty things going on while the
> console is idle are best handled by screen savers.  Opinions?

yeah, though since i tend to run rc564 i dont like screensavers, ofcourse
anything moving is likely to eat some cpu anyway. ofcourse, the screensaver
can be blank too, that's what i use.

> Perhaps it would be best to have an vty ioctl that means 'engage
> screensaver immediately, which getty can send

this sounds good. since i was wishing to see something after the boot,
something else than when it's booting, the screensaver _is_ indeed
what i was wishing to see after the bootup.

[1] and as i noticed, simple splash on the bootup, then screensaver.

> *SOMETHING* now, so I'll probably be submitting a graphical
> screensaver RSN.

=)

> joelh


mickey

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 08:31:32 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:31:01 +0100 (MET)
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.> 3) And, btw of documenting things what would be the easiest way of learning
.> how to write a man page?
.
.Look at another man page. :-)

While your writing the other manpage, why not write a manpage about
writing manpages? Sounds like a good idea to me.

Oh, and send me a copy when your done :)

Nick


ME-SAI, Joint Research Centre, Italy
building: 69
tel.: +39 332 78 9943
fax.: +39 332 78 9648



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 08:35:21 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:10:25 -0500
From: Jerry Hicks <jhicks@atlanta.glenayre.com>
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To: Vadim Nosovsky <vlad@nobulus.tn.odessa.ua>
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Vadim Nosovsky wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Does anybody run Eicon Card under FreeBSD?
> 
> vlad.

The last time I tried, Eicon presented me with a noxious NDA.

That was about a year and a half ago (we wanted to use the S51 board).

Good Luck,

Jerry Hicks
jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 08:43:11 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte), pkorsten@xs4all.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Xircom CE3B-100BTX PCMCIA Ethernet Card
In-Reply-To: <199801152146.OAA25060@usr01.primenet.com>
References: <199801130708.IAA09024@yedi.iaf.nl>
	<199801152146.OAA25060@usr01.primenet.com>
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> However, looking at the  PAO drivers put out by the FreeBSD Nomads
> for PCMCIA cards, it's pretty apparent that they are starting to use
> more standard chipsets (some of the PCMCIA Xircom adapters work
> with PAO, though they are officially frowned upon for their policy).

Only for the modem part. I had a Xircom combo ethernet/modem working
fine under FreeBSD 2.2.1 a while back (I didn't buy it!), but the
ethernet card worked under any PAO release I'm aware of.



Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 08:58:59 1998
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> Heh heh.  How do you think stuff like this _gets_ documented?
> Someone like you finds that its not doc'd, gets really annoyed,
> then submits his diffs to the handbook or FAQ in order to
> prevent others from having to go through the same learning
> process - without that level of general annoyance, it's
> unlikely that anyone else will document it. :-)

Yeah, yeah, yeah... That would mean learn this troff stuff first, though.
Next thing, you'll be wanting me to use emacs! :-)

> I'll be happy to review the english if you have any worries
> about that.

After seven years of Bitnet/Internet, I learned not to give a damn about
_my_ level of english... :-) Not that I thrive for perfection, though.

> > 3) And, btw of documenting things what would be the easiest
> > way of learning how to write a man page?

> Look at another man page. :-)

I never even considered any other way, but as far as man pages goes, we
have quite a few of them, and, mind you, I have yet to know all them by
heart. In fact, I just started a search beginning at man(1), and ended at
"too many things to understand" error.

(Which reminds me about my PR -- there was a man page mentioning buf(9),
that does not exist; while the reference was remarked out, a buf(9) man
page would still be handy.)

And, finally, let me take this opportunity to ask: are all FreeBSD lists
back on-line? I have received a single hackers digest, today, no current
digest, no sys-commit or etc-commit, and no -fs. Though the later is the
norm, I'm quite surprised at the lack of messages from the commit lists.

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 10:22:21 1998
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To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
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Subject: Re: Device Driver
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On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 daniel_sobral@voga.com.br wrote:

> 1) It would be nice if the driver would compile both under 3.0 and 2.2.
> Now, I realise this is not _really_ possible, because the define I have to
> check does not depend on what you are compiling for, but on what the gcc
> was compiled under. Now, if someone would tell me _what_ this define name,
> I'd be really grateful. Again, if there is any driver in the 3.0 tree that
> does this trick already (same driver under both 3.0 and 2.2), would someone
> kindly indicate it to me?

What about including osreldate.h?  It does depend on the include files
being installed, but other than that, that's not necesarily compiler
dependant.  It only assumes that you're not cross compiling.
Realistically however, two seperate versions are probably the most
bulletproof idea.

El hombre mas brillante dijo una vez "Cuidado hay NT". (it's a nerd thing)

- alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 10:23:18 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:23:38 -0800
To: Calin Andrian <calin@ibd.dbio.ro>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "Joseph M. Scott" <jmscott@ainet.com>
Subject: Re: APC Back UPS monitor
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	I'd be interested, I was almost at the same point of just about writing my
own :-)

	If it ends up somewhere please let me know, I'd like to test it out.

Thanks...

Joseph Scott
jmscott@ainet.com

At 05:08 PM 1/19/98 +0200, Calin Andrian wrote:
>Hi !
>
>I searched all over the place for a monitoring package for APC backups and
>did not find any. Finally I wrote a small driver and a monitoring daemon,
>with good results.
>
>I didn't use the sio driver because it seems (maybe I'm wrong) that once
>you successfully open the tty port, both DTR and RTS go high, causing the
>(dumb) backups to immediately shut down.
>
>My package monitors the line-fail status and shuts down the system and the
>UPS if the line is out for more than you-name-it seconds.
>
>How could I make it public ?
>(I mean if anybody is interested)
>
>Calin
>
>
>


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 10:35:18 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:33:24 +0100
From: Philippe Regnauld <regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk>
To: jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com
Cc: Vadim Nosovsky <vlad@nobulus.tn.odessa.ua>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Eicon under FreeBSD
References: <199801190855.KAA13059@nobulus.tn.odessa.ua> <34C37AF1.F0F563BD@atlanta.glenayre.com>
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Jerry Hicks writes:
> > 
> > Does anybody run Eicon Card under FreeBSD?
> 
> The last time I tried, Eicon presented me with a noxious NDA.

	Seems ETInc can do what Eicon does.

-- 
 -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]-
  "Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and
             the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?"
   - S. Kelly Bootle, about Cerberus ["MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib] -

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 10:53:47 1998
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To: Søren Schmidt <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
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Subject: Re: elf and -current
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On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote:

> In reply to Amancio Hasty who wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I am trying to build the elf tool chain in 3.0 -current on my test box.
> > 3.0 -current is the October 6 Snapshot.
> > 
> > Also has anyone managed to build the elf tool-chain with gcc-2.8?
> > with gcc-2.8 the dynamic loader bombs out 
> 
> Why on earth would you want to use gcc-2.8 ??
> Getting tha system ELF'ified is errorprone enough, you dont need extra
> "help" from a new (potentially) buggy compiler....

I don't know about Amancio, but I "ELF'ified" to get egcs support, and
purposely avoided gcc 2.7.x due to C++ problems.  The elfkit itself was
very slick, however, two or three things should probably be addressed.

1.) So far only FSF gcc will work as a cross compiler (not elf to elf, but
	a.out to elf), egcs bombs out here.
2.) The shared libc depends on the crt* code, and the crt* code depends on
	the static libc.
3.) The crt* code seems to be missing a few symbols that libc uses.
	However it's probably missing a few more.  Anyone care to fill me
	in as to which ones are missing?

El hombre mas brillante dijo una vez "Cuidado hay NT". (it's a nerd thing)

- alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 11:35:53 1998
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	(message from Alex on Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:52:43 -0800 (PST))
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   Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:52:43 -0800 (PST)
   From: Alex <garbanzo@hooked.net>

   On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote:

   > Why on earth would you want to use gcc-2.8 ??
   > Getting tha system ELF'ified is errorprone enough, you dont need extra
   > "help" from a new (potentially) buggy compiler....

   I don't know about Amancio, but I "ELF'ified" to get egcs support, and
   purposely avoided gcc 2.7.x due to C++ problems.  The elfkit itself was
   very slick, however, two or three things should probably be addressed.

Ditto.

   1.) So far only FSF gcc will work as a cross compiler (not elf to elf, but
	   a.out to elf), egcs bombs out here.

I managed to build egcs as a cross compiler, following the
instructions in the elfkit's README.  I used binutils-2.8.  I had to
hide the limits.h in egcs' privite include directory in order to
compile libc; BSD defines some Posix constants in there that aren't in
the GNU version.

   2.) The shared libc depends on the crt* code, and the crt* code depends on
	   the static libc.
   3.) The crt* code seems to be missing a few symbols that libc uses.
	   However it's probably missing a few more.  Anyone care to fill me
	   in as to which ones are missing?

What are the symptoms of this?  My egcs seemed to do alright on the
gcc test suite, modulo problems caused by a buggy elf-lorder (I had
assumed that the lorder bugs described in the README had been fixed in
binutils-2.8;  they haven't) and FreeBSD floating point exception
behavior. The g++ test suite had a bunch of unexpected failures, but I
can imagine these have the same cause.  I'll check into those tonight
after I rebuild libc with the fixed lorder.

Tim

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 11:37:23 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801191937.MAA05333@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:37:06 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: louie@TransSys.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <83256591.0040AFF0.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> from "daniel_sobral@voga.com.br" at Jan 19, 98 08:50:36 am
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> > This is similar to asking if the UNIX filesystem has provisions
> > for storing "wide characters in files"; the FS doesn't care
> > what's inside it's files.
> 
> Though that's technically right, one might feel the need for a standard if
> the files he writes are going to be read by other people's programs. Of
> course TCP, by itself, provides all support you need to send the
> characters, but ignoring the practical problems would be akin to keeping to
> IP (vs TCP or UDP) because that's all you _really_ need...

The issue is one of stream synchronization.  This is my main problem
with UTF over non-error-checked links.  If you have an implicit value
boundry, then you are guaranteed a synchronized stream.

Re: the FS example: a better example is to perhaps ask if a UNIX
FS has provisions for storing "wide characters" (or preferrably,
16bit wchar_t values from ISO10646 aka Unicode) in *directory
entries* (the current answer is "no, namei is too stupid").


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 11:42:33 1998
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From: John Birrell <jb@cimlogic.com.au>
Message-Id: <199801191940.GAA19791@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
Subject: Re: Unable to open /dev/urandom when compiling with -lc_r
In-Reply-To: <199801191307.PAA01429@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> from Jacques Fourie at "Jan 19, 98 03:07:55 pm"
To: jacques@oskar.nanoteq.co.za (Jacques Fourie)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:40:30 +1100 (EST)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Jacques Fourie wrote:
> I am unable to open /dev/urandom when compiling with -lc_r. The open() call
> returns -1, with errno set to 25 (ENOTTY).

The device driver does not support non-blocking accesses. It is reporting
"Inappropriate ioctl for device". libc_r needs to make all file descriptors
non-blocking so that it can switch threads in user-space without being held
up in the kernel. Not all device drivers support this, though.

The move to kernel threads solves this problem once and for all, but
that doesn't help you now.

Regards,

-- 
John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 11:50:50 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801191949.MAA05838@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Device Driver
To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:49:53 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <7395.885225385@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 19, 98 07:56:25 am
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> > 2) Would someone document *somewhere* what the hell is the syscon key code
> > that's supposed to bring up the kernel debugger? I had to USTL for this.
> 
> Heh heh.  How do you think stuff like this _gets_ documented?  Someone
> like you finds that its not doc'd, gets really annoyed, then submits
> his diffs to the handbook or FAQ in order to prevent others from
> having to go through the same learning process - without that level
> of general annoyance, it's unlikely that anyone else will document it. :-)

I think there should be a console message about "type xxx to enter the
kernel debugger" when the kernel debugger has been enabled.  This is
better than a man page documentation, since the hotkey can be changed,
and the only accurate information there is must be obtained from the
kernel data segment.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 11:51:01 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801191947.MAA05774@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards
To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm?rgrav)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:47:18 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, jamie@itribe.net,
        jdevale@ece.cmu.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> Therefore, it is *perfectly correct* for the compiler to produce code
> that outputs "The value of a NULL character is 0" from the source code
> you give, since what you wrote is, in effect,
> 
>  		char    c = 0;

Just because the literal zero can be translated to the NULL pointer
does *NOT* mean that the NULL pointer can (or should) be translated
to a literal zero.

In point of fact, the reason my program prints what it prints is
because the behaviour is undefined by the compiler, and this is
what *happenS* to happen in this instance.

It is my argument that the compiler should issue warnings for undefined
behaviours.  After all it is *supposedly* a C compiler, and thus
*supposedly* has knowledge of the standards hard-coded into it.


> > Also, you're right that the standard allows for a non-zero value
> > for NULL.  I don't know of anyone who uses this; it's pretty much
> > in there to cause problems, like a lot of other "features", ie: the
> > assumption that certain optimizations are allowable unless they are
> > explicitly disallowed, etc..
> 
> The standard does *not* allow for a non-zero value of NULL. The
> standard very clearly states that the literal 0, when assigned to a
> pointer variable, evaluates to a NULL pointer. The standard does not,
> however, say anything about the internal representation of a NULL
> pointer. Wether or not a NULL pointer is all bits zero is
> implementation-defined.

As is wheter or not the "evaluation" you reference is run time or compile
time.  If it is compile time, then again, it makes sense to warn about
the conversion of a pointer type to a non-pointer type.


> > So pretty much until you fix the compiler, I'm going to keep my
> > terminology as fuzzy as the compiler's enforcement.
> 
> Again, nothing is wrong with the compiler. It's in perfect accordance
> with the ISO C standard. Your use of NULL in "a NULL string" or "the
> NULL character", however, is definitely incorrect. Instead, you should
> use "an empty string" and "the NUL character" (only one L),
> respectively.

My DEC ASCII chart that came with my old VT102 says "NULL" with two
"L"'s.  The three character representation of this is convention,
nothing more.

Further, I stated "NULL valued string", not "NULL string".  While
this is subject to interpretation, in context it was pretty obvious
that it could mean only one thing and continue to make sense.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 11:56:01 1998
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From: Thordur Ivarsson <totii@est.is>
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To: Calin Andrian <calin@ibd.dbio.ro>
CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: APC Back UPS monitor
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Calin Andrian wrote:
> 
> Hi !
> 
> I searched all over the place for a monitoring package for APC backups and
> did not find any. Finally I wrote a small driver and a monitoring daemon,
> with good results.
> 
> I didn't use the sio driver because it seems (maybe I'm wrong) that once
> you successfully open the tty port, both DTR and RTS go high, causing the
> (dumb) backups to immediately shut down.
> 
> My package monitors the line-fail status and shuts down the system and the
> UPS if the line is out for more than you-name-it seconds.
> 
> How could I make it public ?
> (I mean if anybody is interested)
> 
> Calin

I have here UPS that is not using intelligent communications and would
like to see what you have there, my ups sends only make or break signals
and wants make or break signals to shut down, many of the APC needs
serial stream for controlling and monitoring.

My ups is from Fairstone.


-- 
Þórður Ívarsson		Thordur Ivarsson
Rafeindavirki		Electronic technician
Norðurgötu 30		Nordurgotu 30
Box 309			Box 309
602 Akureyri		602 Akureyri
Ísland			Iceland

---------------------------------------------
FreeBSD has good features,
Some others are full of unwanted features!
---------------------------------------------

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 12:02:32 1998
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From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis)
Subject: Re: Device Driver
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.980119172903.17172q-100000@ross.jrc.it> from Nick Hibma at "Jan 19, 98 05:31:01 pm"
To: nick.hibma@jrc.it
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:59:22 +0100 (CET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Organization: Kitchen Table Systems
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Nick Hibma wrote:

> While your writing the other manpage, why not write a manpage about
> writing manpages? 

Already written:

man mdoc
man mdoc.samples

hellmuth
-- 
Hellmuth Michaelis                hm@kts.org                   Hamburg, Europe
                    "Those who can, do. Those who can't, talk.
             And those who can't talk, talk about talking." (B. Shaw)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 12:10:47 1998
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From: Jin Guojun (ITG staff) <jin@george.lbl.gov>
Message-Id: <199801192009.MAA28004@george.lbl.gov>
To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, obrien@NUXI.com
Subject: Re: kern/5481: boot blocks too big with BOOT_HD_BIAS defined
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> You haven't installed boot blocks with NAMEBLOCK etc. defined.

The default /sys/i386/boot/biosboot/Makefile works fine.
However, the boot.nohdr ==> boot2 will be too big if any extra flag is
defined (uncommented ) in this Makefile:

#CFLAGS+=        -DNAMEBLOCK
#CFLAGS+=       -DNAMEBLOCK_WRITEBACK
------------------------------------------
CFLAGS+=        -DNAMEBLOCK
#CFLAGS+=       -DNAMEBLOCK_WRITEBACK

# make
...
text    data    bss     dec     hex
7664    96      49056   56816   ddf0
dd if=boot.strip of=boot.nohdr ibs=32 skip=1 obs=1024b
242+1 records in
0+1 records out
7760 bytes transferred in 0.002194 secs (3536843 bytes/sec)
ls -l boot.nohdr
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  7760 Jan 19 11:51 boot.nohdr
dd if=boot.nohdr of=boot1 bs=512 count=1
1+0 records in
1+0 records out
512 bytes transferred in 0.000391 secs (1309441 bytes/sec)
dd if=boot.nohdr of=boot2 bs=512 skip=1
14+1 records in
14+1 records out
7248 bytes transferred in 0.001186 secs (6111845 bytes/sec)
boot2 is too big
*** Error code 2

Would someone please help how on compiling boot block with extra flag
without making boot.nohdr size exceeding 7168 byte?

Thanks,

-Jin


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 12:25:53 1998
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To: Timothy Moore <moore@WOLFENET.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: elf and -current
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On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Timothy Moore wrote:

>    I don't know about Amancio, but I "ELF'ified" to get egcs support, and
>    purposely avoided gcc 2.7.x due to C++ problems.  The elfkit itself was
>    very slick, however, two or three things should probably be addressed.
> 
> Ditto.
> 
>    1.) So far only FSF gcc will work as a cross compiler (not elf to elf, but
> 	   a.out to elf), egcs bombs out here.
> 
> I managed to build egcs as a cross compiler, following the
> instructions in the elfkit's README.  I used binutils-2.8.  I had to
> hide the limits.h in egcs' privite include directory in order to
> compile libc; BSD defines some Posix constants in there that aren't in
> the GNU version.

Configuring egcs (I tried with egcs snapshots from December 97, with and
without pgcc patches) as per the README worked fine.  Running make as per
the README, caused it to bomb out on making libgcc1.a.  I finally
downloaded gcc 2.8, and it worked fine.

>    2.) The shared libc depends on the crt* code, and the crt* code depends on
> 	   the static libc.
>    3.) The crt* code seems to be missing a few symbols that libc uses.
> 	   However it's probably missing a few more.  Anyone care to fill me
> 	   in as to which ones are missing?
> 
> What are the symptoms of this?  My egcs seemed to do alright on the
> gcc test suite, modulo problems caused by a buggy elf-lorder (I had
> assumed that the lorder bugs described in the README had been fixed in
> binutils-2.8;  they haven't) and FreeBSD floating point exception
> behavior. The g++ test suite had a bunch of unexpected failures, but I
> can imagine these have the same cause.  I'll check into those tonight
> after I rebuild libc with the fixed lorder.

Perhaps I did something horribly wrong (I'm guessing yes), but I found a
bunch of missing symbols (so far strlen and a few others haven't made it
into my elf libc for whatever reason).  I also noticed in a Hello world
program, that there were undefined references to errno, sys_errlist and
sys_nerr, adding those into the crt code fixed it for me.  If I can get
these kinks worked out, I think I'll build a native elf compiler, so I can
get egcs and X working (so far I only have the most basic libs converted
to elf).

P.S. I'm using binutils 2.8.1 from labrea.stanford.edu

El hombre mas brillante dijo una vez "Cuidado hay NT". (it's a nerd thing)

- alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 12:27:26 1998
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To: toshok@netscape.com
Subject: Re: user limits, login.conf, etc.
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:25:38 -0800
From: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
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In article <34C16A7A.9E950A3@netscape.com>,
Chris Toshok  <toshok@netscape.com> wrote:

> Here's my login.conf entry:

Not to insult your intelligence or anything, but did you run
"cap_mkdb /etc/login.conf" after you edited it?  It's easy to
forget that step.

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 12:31:03 1998
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To: tlambert@primenet.com
CC: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, tlambert@primenet.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu,
        jamie@itribe.net, jdevale@ece.cmu.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199801191947.MAA05774@usr08.primenet.com> (message from Terry
	Lambert on Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:47:18 +0000 (GMT))
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
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> It is my argument that the compiler should issue warnings for
> undefined behaviours.  After all it is *supposedly* a C compiler,
> and thus *supposedly* has knowledge of the standards hard-coded into
> it.

That would be very difficult and slow to handle in general, and
frequently undesirable.  For this case, the behaviour you desire can
be obtained by replacing #define NULL 0 with

#ifdef __STDC__
#define NULL ((void*)0)
#else
#define NULL ((char*)0)
#endif

> As is wheter or not the "evaluation" you reference is run time or compile
> time.  If it is compile time, then again, it makes sense to warn about
> the conversion of a pointer type to a non-pointer type.

Here I agree.  I just gave you a solution.  If you want a diff to
commit instead, I'll send it to you.

> Further, I stated "NULL valued string", not "NULL string".  While
> this is subject to interpretation, in context it was pretty obvious
> that it could mean only one thing and continue to make sense.

So then why propogate this argument over semantics?  If you are
genuinely concerned about the behaviour, then I'll send you a diff to
commit.

Cheers,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 12:42:29 1998
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Subject: Re: elf and -current
In-Reply-To: <199801191934.LAA06191@gonzo.wolfenet.com> from Timothy Moore at "Jan 19, 98 11:34:34 am"
To: moore@WOLFENET.com (Timothy Moore)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:52:11 +1100 (EST)
Cc: garbanzo@hooked.net, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Timothy Moore wrote:
> I managed to build egcs as a cross compiler, following the
> instructions in the elfkit's README.  I used binutils-2.8.  I had to
> hide the limits.h in egcs' privite include directory in order to
> compile libc; BSD defines some Posix constants in there that aren't in
> the GNU version.

FWIW, work is in progress to import binutils-2.8 into -current.
This is needed for the alpha. Since the alpha is ELF, it has been
decided that now is a good time to add ELF support to -current for
i386 too.

Regards,

-- 
John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 12:54:16 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
cc: Charles Mott <cmott@srv.net>, Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>
Subject: Recent libalias/ppp crashes.  dlsym() bug ?
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:47:05 +0000
From: Brian Somers <brian@Awfulhak.org>
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Well, people may be pleased to know that I found the problem that's 
been making ppp ``evaporate'' recently.

The new PunchFWHole() function in libalias is called from alias_db.c, 
alias_ftp.c and alias_irc.c.  I didn't get things right, and adjusted my 
script that builds my ppp archive so that it #ifdefs things out... 
(based on __FreeBSD_version) missing the PunchFWHole() call in 
alias_ftp.c and alias_irc.c, but managing to remove its definition from 
alias_db.c.

When loading libalias, ppp uses dlopen()/dlsym() (in loadalias.c).  
It successfully loads the libalias stuff, and the PunchFWHole() call 
in alias_ftp.c makes the whole program evaporate - no syslog, nothing.

This begs the question:  Why can I load a function with dlsym() that 
has unresolved variables in it ?  I'm afraid I haven't been paying 
attention to the dladdr() thread - if it's relevant.

Thanks for any advise.

Oh, and BTW, ppp is now fixed :-)
-- 
Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
      <http://www.Awfulhak.org>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 12:56:24 1998
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From: Oliver Fromme <olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de>
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Andrew Kenneth Milton <akm@mother.sneaker.net.au> wrote in list.freebsd-hackers:
 > +-----[ Oliver Fromme ]------------------------------
 > | 
 > | To make a long story short, I'd vote for LP64, that is, 8 bit
 > | chars, 16 bit shorts, 32 bit ints, 64 bit longs and pointers.
 > | Maybe even 128 bit long long (BTW, the upcoming C9X standard
 > | even legalizes "long long").
 > 
 > I would still like int to be the 'best' size of an int for performance
 > on a piece of hardware.

>From a performance point of view, there is no difference
between 32 bits and 64 bits on Alpha processors.

 > In any case I thought these things were determined
 > by the compiler, not the operating system, so someone is still free to
 > write a compiler that ignores your favourite sizes.

It is my understanding that the type sizes are determined by
the operating system.  If you write a compiler which uses
different sizes, you'll run into trouble when using syscalls.
(Of course the libs of your compiler could try to "translate"
the sizes, but that would open another can of worms.)

I don't know how difficult it would be to modify gcc in order
to have different sizes of the basic types, but it shouldn't
be too difficult.

 > Quite frankly if you _rely_ on int being 32 signed bits, your code sucks,
 > or at least is very non-portable (which I consider to be the same thing,

Agreed 100%.

Regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18-61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany
(Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de)

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 14:15:18 1998
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To: brian@Awfulhak.org
Subject: Re: Recent libalias/ppp crashes.  dlsym() bug ?
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In article <199801192047.UAA21903@awfulhak.org>,
Brian Somers  <brian@Awfulhak.org> wrote:

> This begs the question:  Why can I load a function with dlsym() that 
> has unresolved variables in it ?

Almost certainly because you specified a mode lf RTLD_LAZY in your
dlopen call.  If you want all external references to be checked
immediately, use RTLD_NOW instead.  See dlopen(3).

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 14:38:23 1998
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To: Paul Traina <pst@juniper.net>
Cc: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>, bde@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@FreeBSD.ORG,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: isdisk() kludge in kernel
References: <199801182142.NAA08748@red.juniper.net>
From: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>
Date: 19 Jan 1998 23:36:56 +0100
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* Paul Traina
| > >I'd like to propose changing spec_open to simply NEVER allowing the open of
| > >a block device, or character device, if a character device has a block
| > >device associated with it and eliminate isdisk() in kern_conf entirely.
| > 
| > This would break at least backups to SCSI tape devices, since st has both
| > block and character devices, but tapes aren't disks.  Perhaps the broken
| > version is correct - isdisk() really means isasecurityholeifmountable().
| 
| Aha, you're correct, ok, bad idea.

Couldn't this be solved the opposite way?

Default to denying open of character devices with associated block
devices, and a flag to indicate that this device is OK to open in
secure mode?

Generally, default to denying is the only thing that is likely to
create a secure system.

Eivind.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 14:40:41 1998
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From: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@sunyit.edu>
To: "John Birrell" <jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>,
        "Jacques Fourie" <jacques@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
Cc: <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Unable to open /dev/urandom when compiling with -lc_r
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:36:39 -0500
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quick thought,  why not do something like this:

p = pipe()

if(fork()==0)

pass 'p' to both processes

one process reads from /dev/urandom, the other reads off the pipe
non-blocking?

-Alfred





----------
> From: John Birrell <jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
> To: Jacques Fourie <jacques@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
> Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: Re: Unable to open /dev/urandom when compiling with -lc_r
> Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 2:40 PM
> 
> Jacques Fourie wrote:
> > I am unable to open /dev/urandom when compiling with -lc_r. The open()
call
> > returns -1, with errno set to 25 (ENOTTY).
> 
> The device driver does not support non-blocking accesses. It is reporting
> "Inappropriate ioctl for device". libc_r needs to make all file
descriptors
> non-blocking so that it can switch threads in user-space without being
held
> up in the kernel. Not all device drivers support this, though.
> 
> The move to kernel threads solves this problem once and for all, but
> that doesn't help you now.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
> CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353
137


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 14:54:04 1998
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From: Keith Mitchell <kmitch@labrador.cslab.vt.edu>
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Subject: Netgroup Problem
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I am trying to restrict access to a machine that is running NIS.  I need
the accounts there (to receive mail) but I don't want these people logging
in.  To achieve this, I created a netgroup with the people that I want to
be able to login (consult) and added the following to my password file:

+@consult:::::::::
+:::::::::/usr/bin/false

The problem is, that the people in the consult group can't actually log in.
The problem appears to be that programs that use getpwnam don't work while
those that use getpwent work fine.  (i.e. finger will show the correct
info but sudo, login, su, etc. don't).

I was looking at the source and it doesn't look like getpwnam looks 
through the netgroups at all.  (I didn't look that carefully so I 
could be mistaken).


Has anyone gotten something like this to work??


Thanks.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 15:01:00 1998
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To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Recent libalias/ppp crashes. dlsym() bug ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:13:34 PST."
             <199801192213.OAA25533@austin.polstra.com> 
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> In article <199801192047.UAA21903@awfulhak.org>,
> Brian Somers  <brian@Awfulhak.org> wrote:
> 
> > This begs the question:  Why can I load a function with dlsym() that 
> > has unresolved variables in it ?
> 
> Almost certainly because you specified a mode lf RTLD_LAZY in your
> dlopen call.  If you want all external references to be checked
> immediately, use RTLD_NOW instead.  See dlopen(3).

Ah, thanks.  I used RTLD_LAZY because older versions didn't support 
RTLD_NOW.... it never occurred to me :->

> John
> --
>    John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
>    John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
>    "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

-- 
Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
      <http://www.Awfulhak.org>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 15:17:30 1998
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From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: elf and -current
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According to Alex:
> 1.) So far only FSF gcc will work as a cross compiler (not elf to elf, but
> 	a.out to elf), egcs bombs out here.

Don't tell this to my egcs/pgcc :-)

143 [22:59] roberto@keltia:~/tmp> elf-cc -v
Reading specs from /opt/elf/lib/gcc-lib/i386-unknown-freebsdelf/pgcc-2.91.03/specs
gcc version pgcc-2.91.03 971225 (gcc-2.8.0)

I have no problem compiling egcs/pgcc with our gcc, generating either a
native compiler or a cross-ELF one.

> 2.) The shared libc depends on the crt* code, and the crt* code depends on
> 	the static libc.

No problem there either.

> 3.) The crt* code seems to be missing a few symbols that libc uses.
> 	However it's probably missing a few more.  Anyone care to fill me
> 	in as to which ones are missing?

Which ones ?

I'm surprised at all these problems...
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #4: Sun Jan 18 15:50:16 CET 1998

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According to Alex:
> Perhaps I did something horribly wrong (I'm guessing yes), but I found a
> bunch of missing symbols (so far strlen and a few others haven't made it
> into my elf libc for whatever reason).  I also noticed in a Hello world

I'm very surprised...

What I did to compile all the libs was

cvs co lib
cd lib
elf-make
elf-make install

(OK, I had to patch some Makefiles to avoid installing .h and changing a
few links).

> P.S. I'm using binutils 2.8.1 from labrea.stanford.edu

Same.
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #4: Sun Jan 18 15:50:16 CET 1998

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 15:43:37 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: user limits, login.conf, etc.
References: <34C16A7A.9E950A3@netscape.com>
	<199801192025.MAA24381@austin.polstra.com>
From: Christoph Toshok <toshok@Hungry.COM>
Date: 19 Jan 1998 15:43:23 -0800
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jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) writes:
> 
> In article <34C16A7A.9E950A3@netscape.com>,
> Chris Toshok  <toshok@netscape.com> wrote:
> 
> > Here's my login.conf entry:
> 
> Not to insult your intelligence or anything, but did you run
> "cap_mkdb /etc/login.conf" after you edited it?  It's easy to
> forget that step.
> 

Yep, I've run cap_mkdb, and the problem remained.  Here's the output
of limits -a, taken after logging in from xdm and a virtual console.

A shell from xdm:

Resource limits (current):
  cputime          infinity secs
  filesize         infinity kb
  datasize           524288 kb
  stacksize           65536 kb
  coredumpsize     infinity kb
  memoryuse-cur       32768 kb
  memorylocked     infinity kb
  maxprocesses-cur       64
  openfiles             680

A Shell from a virtual console:

Resource limits (current):
  cputime          infinity secs
  filesize         infinity kb
  datasize           524288 kb
  stacksize           65536 kb
  coredumpsize     infinity kb
  memoryuse        infinity kb
  memorylocked     infinity kb
  maxprocesses          339
  openfiles             680

There isn't a login class in /etc/login.conf that corresponds to
either of them.

Btw, I'm currently using bash-2.0.  Not that I'd imagine it would make
that much difference.

The problem does go away (oh, I can *finally* run gdb) if I run
'limits -C root /usr/X11R6/bin/xdm' in /etc/rc.local.  After I do
that, the limits for xdm become the same as what I've listed for
virtual consoles.

Chris

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 16:07:18 1998
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Message-ID: <19980120103328.07046@lemis.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:33:28 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>, daniel_sobral@voga.com.br,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Device Driver
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On Mon, Jan 19, 1998 at 07:49:53PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote:
>>> 2) Would someone document *somewhere* what the hell is the syscon key code
>>> that's supposed to bring up the kernel debugger? I had to USTL for this.
>>
>> Heh heh.  How do you think stuff like this _gets_ documented?  Someone
>> like you finds that its not doc'd, gets really annoyed, then submits
>> his diffs to the handbook or FAQ in order to prevent others from
>> having to go through the same learning process - without that level
>> of general annoyance, it's unlikely that anyone else will document it. :-)
>
> I think there should be a console message about "type xxx to enter the
> kernel debugger" when the kernel debugger has been enabled.  This is
> better than a man page documentation, since the hotkey can be changed,
> and the only accurate information there is must be obtained from the
> kernel data segment.

That's a great idea.  While we're at it, how about messages about what
key combinations to use for switching VTs?  And what key combinations
to use to erase a character, send a SIGTERM, kill a line.  Yes, I know
that this often appears, but it's in a format that's confusing for a
lot of people.

And, of course, how about a message explaining how to log on?  Or that
you need to press "Enter" at the end of a line?  Or that you can find
most things in the man pages, and that the kernel debugger's
documented at http://www.lemis.com/handbook/handbook267.html#601?

Greg


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 16:11:18 1998
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Subject: Re: kern/5481: boot blocks too big with BOOT_HD_BIAS defined 
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             <199801192009.MAA28004@george.lbl.gov> 
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> > You haven't installed boot blocks with NAMEBLOCK etc. defined.
> 
> The default /sys/i386/boot/biosboot/Makefile works fine.
> However, the boot.nohdr ==> boot2 will be too big if any extra flag is
> defined (uncommented ) in this Makefile:

Remove the BAD144 support.  It's useless in 99.9% of all cases.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 16:11:23 1998
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Subject: Re: user limits, login.conf, etc. 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:25:38 -0800."
             <199801192025.MAA24381@austin.polstra.com> 
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> In article <34C16A7A.9E950A3@netscape.com>,
> Chris Toshok  <toshok@netscape.com> wrote:
> 
> > Here's my login.conf entry:
> 
> Not to insult your intelligence or anything, but did you run
> "cap_mkdb /etc/login.conf" after you edited it?  It's easy to
> forget that step.

Is this step *absolutely* necessary?  If so, it needs to be mentioned 
in the manpage.  8)

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 16:12:50 1998
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Subject: Re: Device Driver 
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> I think there should be a console message about "type xxx to enter the
> kernel debugger" when the kernel debugger has been enabled.  This is
> better than a man page documentation, since the hotkey can be changed,
> and the only accurate information there is must be obtained from the
> kernel data segment.

In the default case, the correct way to determine this key is with 
'kbdcontrol -d', which will tell you where the 'debug' keycode is 
mapped (if it is).

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 16:23:47 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>, toshok@netscape.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: user limits, login.conf, etc.
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On Tue, Jan 20, 1998 at 10:33:25AM +1030, Mike Smith wrote:
>> In article <34C16A7A.9E950A3@netscape.com>,
>> Chris Toshok  <toshok@netscape.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's my login.conf entry:
>>
>> Not to insult your intelligence or anything, but did you run
>> "cap_mkdb /etc/login.conf" after you edited it?  It's easy to
>> forget that step.
>
> Is this step *absolutely* necessary? 

My understanding is that it's not necessary, but of course if you do
it once, you need to do it every time.

> If so, it needs to be mentioned in the manpage.  8)

Agreed.

Greg


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 17:08:12 1998
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From: John Birrell <jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
Message-Id: <199801200112.MAA20451@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au>
Subject: Re: Unable to open /dev/urandom when compiling with -lc_r
In-Reply-To: <199801191840.SAA18894@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> from Alfred Perlstein at "Jan 19, 98 05:36:39 pm"
To: perlsta@sunyit.edu (Alfred Perlstein)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:12:17 +1100 (EST)
Cc: jacques@oskar.nanoteq.co.za, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Alfred Perlstein wrote:
> quick thought,  why not do something like this:
> 
> p = pipe()
> 
> if(fork()==0)
> 
> pass 'p' to both processes
> 
> one process reads from /dev/urandom, the other reads off the pipe
> non-blocking?

This will not solve the problem.

A program linked with libc_r appears to have a blocking interface to the
programmer with the library converting blocking calls into non-blocking
ones. The problem here cannot be solved by anything other than
(a) adding non-blocking support to the driver; or (b) replacing the
user-thread implementation with kernel threads which don't suffer
from this problem.

Regards,

-- 
John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 17:28:42 1998
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From: hykel@yoda.eng.hou.compaq.com (Richard Hykel)
Subject: Re: what does MMX mean?
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 11:38:07 CST
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I have already replied to Archie, but perhaps the list might be
interested in this part also.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the FAQ from Intel's developer website,
http://developer.intel.com/drg/mmx/Support/faq.htm,  MMX(TM)
is not an acronym.  They filed for a trade mark world wide, and
probably already received it in most cases.

But to answer what you really appear to be looking for, MMX(TM)
is the trademarked name for the technology that is used to speed
up matrix math.  There are new matrix math instructions and registers
available on processors with MMX(TM) technology.

Check out http://developer.intel.com/drg/news/class3/sld031.htm
and search their website for 'MMX' and 'matrix math'

The information that I found referenced integer operations only.

It appears that << Archie Cobbs >> wrote:
> 
> 
> What, exactly, does MMX mean?
> 
> Does it mean the processor has NEW instructions for DSP type operations?
> Does it speed up EXISTING instructions? Integer or floating point (or both)?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Archie
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Archie Cobbs   *   Whistle Communications, Inc.  *   http://www.whistle.com
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Hykel                       Compaq Computer Corporation
hykel@twisto.compaq.com             
Disclamer: Opinions expressed are my own, not Compaq's.
---------------------------------------------------------------------



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 17:40:54 1998
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From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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It may be worthwhile to explore the MMX instruction set for
network checksum algorithms or error correction algorithms.

	Cheers,
	Amancio

> I have already replied to Archie, but perhaps the list might be
> interested in this part also.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> According to the FAQ from Intel's developer website,
> http://developer.intel.com/drg/mmx/Support/faq.htm,  MMX(TM)
> is not an acronym.  They filed for a trade mark world wide, and
> probably already received it in most cases.
> 
> But to answer what you really appear to be looking for, MMX(TM)
> is the trademarked name for the technology that is used to speed
> up matrix math.  There are new matrix math instructions and registers
> available on processors with MMX(TM) technology.
> 
> Check out http://developer.intel.com/drg/news/class3/sld031.htm
> and search their website for 'MMX' and 'matrix math'
> 
> The information that I found referenced integer operations only.
> 
> It appears that << Archie Cobbs >> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > What, exactly, does MMX mean?
> > 
> > Does it mean the processor has NEW instructions for DSP type operations?
> > Does it speed up EXISTING instructions? Integer or floating point (or both)?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > -Archie
> > 
> > ___________________________________________________________________________
> > Archie Cobbs   *   Whistle Communications, Inc.  *   http://www.whistle.com
> > 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Richard Hykel                       Compaq Computer Corporation
> hykel@twisto.compaq.com             
> Disclamer: Opinions expressed are my own, not Compaq's.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 18:38:35 1998
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From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>
cc: Paul Traina <pst@juniper.net>, Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>,
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On 19 Jan 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote:

> Default to denying open of character devices with associated block
> devices, and a flag to indicate that this device is OK to open in
> secure mode?

Good idea.  Now convince Bruce!  ;-)


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 18:41:47 1998
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To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
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From: "Louis A. Mamakos" <louie@TransSys.COM>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections 
References: <83256591.0040AFF0.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> 
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             <83256591.0040AFF0.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> 
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> Though that's technically right, one might feel the need for a standard if
> the files he writes are going to be read by other people's programs. Of
> course TCP, by itself, provides all support you need to send the
> characters, but ignoring the practical problems would be akin to keeping to
> IP (vs TCP or UDP) because that's all you _really_ need...

What?  While you might agree to implement your own transport protocol
directly on IP or using UDP to do multiplexing with your own reliable
transport, none of this makes it any easier to move multibyte characters
between machines.

If you're looking for a standard way to move multibyte characters, then
choose any one of a number of encodings already used to store multibyte
characters in files.

louie




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 19:14:02 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "Louis A. Mamakos" <louie@TransSys.COM>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections 
References: <199801191937.MAA05333@usr08.primenet.com> 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:37:06 GMT."
             <199801191937.MAA05333@usr08.primenet.com> 
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> > > This is similar to asking if the UNIX filesystem has provisions
> > > for storing "wide characters in files"; the FS doesn't care
> > > what's inside it's files.
> > 
> > Though that's technically right, one might feel the need for a standard if
> > the files he writes are going to be read by other people's programs. Of
> > course TCP, by itself, provides all support you need to send the
> > characters, but ignoring the practical problems would be akin to keeping to
> > IP (vs TCP or UDP) because that's all you _really_ need...
> 
> The issue is one of stream synchronization.  This is my main problem
> with UTF over non-error-checked links.  If you have an implicit value
> boundry, then you are guaranteed a synchronized stream.

Not applicable.  TCP *is* an error checked link.  Absent application
implementation errors, you shouldn't get unscynchronized.

> Re: the FS example: a better example is to perhaps ask if a UNIX
> FS has provisions for storing "wide characters" (or preferrably,
> 16bit wchar_t values from ISO10646 aka Unicode) in *directory
> entries* (the current answer is "no, namei is too stupid").

Why is this a better example?  It's not like we're trying to name
transport endpoints with any sort of character strings; the issue
is "awareness" of the underlying {transport,storage} mechansim.

There's really no point in reimplementing a transport protocol given
the literally thousands of man-hours of work by a lot of clever
people over more than a decade to make TCP work well.

louie



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 20:07:05 1998
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Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
To: louie@TransSys.COM (Louis A. Mamakos)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:15:58 +1100 (EST)
Cc: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801200240.VAA20667@whizzo.TransSys.COM> from "Louis A. Mamakos" at Jan 19, 98 09:40:32 pm
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+-----[ Louis A. Mamakos ]------------------------------
| 
| 
| > Though that's technically right, one might feel the need for a standard if
| > the files he writes are going to be read by other people's programs. Of
| > course TCP, by itself, provides all support you need to send the
| > characters, but ignoring the practical problems would be akin to keeping to
| > IP (vs TCP or UDP) because that's all you _really_ need...
| 
| What?  While you might agree to implement your own transport protocol
| directly on IP or using UDP to do multiplexing with your own reliable
| transport, none of this makes it any easier to move multibyte characters
| between machines.
| 
| If you're looking for a standard way to move multibyte characters, then
| choose any one of a number of encodings already used to store multibyte
| characters in files.

Moving them's not quite the same as storing them.... byte orders, usually
come into play a lot more when you've got to shunt the data across a network.

I think Unicode defines that it is to be stored in network byte order.
Although how standard is your wchar_t between platforms? See another thread
for the answer to that one.

Your best bet is a higher level (more expensive) wrapping like XDR so
that you know that you can transport it between platforms. Or roll your
own.

-- 
  ,-_|\  SneakerNet       |     Andrew Milton    |    GSM: +61(41)6 022 411
 /     \ P.O. Box 154     |  akm@sneaker.net.au  |    Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233
 \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233
      v  NSW 2137      | Low cost Internet Solutions |

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 21:46:17 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: syscons.c Mode X handling
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
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I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a thing about VGA
programming, but, unless I'm wrong, there is definately something awry
in this bit of code, from syscons.c:set_mode, in case M_VGA_MODEX,
line 4055.  This could be perfectly harmless, but
special_modetable[10+0x11] gets set twice before anything is done with
it.  (special_modetable is a normal char array on the stack.)

Anybody know what's going on here?  This isn't anything that's
important to my work, I just came across it while going over the
mode-switching code, and it looks funny.

	/* set 240 lines */
	special_modetable[10+0x11] = 0x2c;
	special_modetable[10+0x06] = 0x0d;
	special_modetable[10+0x07] = 0x3e;
	special_modetable[10+0x10] = 0xea;
	special_modetable[10+0x11] = 0xac;

Happy hacking,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Mon Jan 19 22:22:51 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:17:26 +1100
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
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To: perhaps@yes.no, pst@juniper.net
Subject: Re: isdisk() kludge in kernel
Cc: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@zeta.org.au, dg@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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>Couldn't this be solved the opposite way?
>
>Default to denying open of character devices with associated block
>devices, and a flag to indicate that this device is OK to open in
>secure mode?
>
>Generally, default to denying is the only thing that is likely to
>create a secure system.

I like this, but not for -stable.  The disk flag would still be required
to support securelevel 1, where the only restrictions on devices are that
/dev/*mem and _disks_ for _mounted_ filesystems may not be opened for
writing.

Better yet, we could have a flag to indicate that the device is OK
to open.  It is not OK to open a device with an unmaintained driver :-).

Bruce

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 01:00:50 1998
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Subject: Re: syscons.c Mode X handling
In-Reply-To: <199801200545.XAA00312@detlev.UUCP> from Joel Ray Holveck at "Jan 19, 98 11:45:25 pm"
To: joelh@gnu.org
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:00:19 +0100 (MET)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Søren Schmidt <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
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In reply to Joel Ray Holveck who wrote:
> I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a thing about VGA
> programming, but, unless I'm wrong, there is definately something awry
> in this bit of code, from syscons.c:set_mode, in case M_VGA_MODEX,
> line 4055.  This could be perfectly harmless, but
> special_modetable[10+0x11] gets set twice before anything is done with
> it.  (special_modetable is a normal char array on the stack.)
> 
> Anybody know what's going on here?  This isn't anything that's
> important to my work, I just came across it while going over the
> mode-switching code, and it looks funny.
> 
> 	/* set 240 lines */
> 	special_modetable[10+0x11] = 0x2c;
> 	special_modetable[10+0x06] = 0x0d;
> 	special_modetable[10+0x07] = 0x3e;
> 	special_modetable[10+0x10] = 0xea;
> 	special_modetable[10+0x11] = 0xac;

He he, its an artifact of the way the crtc noramlly is programmed, which
doesn't apply here. The last line can be safely ommitted...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 01:22:50 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:26:55 +0200 (EET)
From: Calin Andrian <calin@ibd.dbio.ro>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: APC Back UPS monitor
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You can download it from:
ftp://ftp.dbio.ro/pub/FreeBSD/local/apcb.tgz

Thanks to all for the interest.

To FreeBSD team: If you ever give alloc it a major number, please let me
know.

Calin



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 02:38:06 1998
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> and that the kernel debugger's documented at
> http://www.lemis.com/handbook/handbook267.html#601?

Which happens *NOT* to mention the key used to bring up the kernel
debugger, *NOR* the name of it in the keymap tables, mind you.

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 02:40:59 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:40:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
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> If you're looking for a standard way to move multibyte
> characters, then choose any one of a number of encodings
> already used to store multibyte characters in files.

Net order or what?

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 02:43:57 1998
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Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
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> the issue is "awareness" of the underlying {transport,
> storage} mechansim.

> There's really no point in reimplementing a transport
> protocol given the literally thousands of man-hours of
> work by a lot of clever people over more than a decade
> to make TCP work well.

As far as my question goes, that was not the issue. The issue is the
existance, or not, standards for transporting wide characters over TCP, in
a higher layer.

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 02:56:27 1998
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> In the default case, the correct way to determine this key is with
> 'kbdcontrol -d', which will tell you where the 'debug' keycode is
> mapped (if it is).

The whole problem here is that it is _not_ mentioned that 'debug' is the
keycode you are looking for. At least, not anywhere I could find.

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 03:03:54 1998
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Message-ID: <19980120120216.OB37901@mars.hsc.fr>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:02:16 +0100
From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac)
To: louie@TransSys.COM (Louis A. Mamakos)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), daniel_sobral@voga.com.br,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
References: <199801191937.MAA05333@usr08.primenet.com> <199801200313.WAA20726@whizzo.TransSys.COM>
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According to Louis A. Mamakos:
> > > course TCP, by itself, provides all support you need to send the
> > > characters, but ignoring the practical problems would be akin to keeping to
> > > IP (vs TCP or UDP) because that's all you _really_ need...
> > 
> > The issue is one of stream synchronization.  This is my main problem
> > with UTF over non-error-checked links.  If you have an implicit value
> > boundry, then you are guaranteed a synchronized stream.
> 
> Not applicable.  TCP *is* an error checked link.  Absent application
> implementation errors, you shouldn't get unscynchronized.

I can add that, if I've understood UTF-8 right, it's fairly easy to
resynchronize in case you happen to lose sync. It just takes one or
two lost or garbled chars. I think that UTF-8 is one of the ways to
go. Its only drawback is that it's not compatible with "pure" 8 bits
ISO-Latin-1 streams as it reuses 0x80-0xff.
-- 
Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 04:36:20 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:06:05 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
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Subject: Re: Device Driver
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On Tue, Jan 20, 1998 at 08:36:55AM -0300, daniel_sobral@voga.com.br wrote:
>
>> and that the kernel debugger's documented at
>> http://www.lemis.com/handbook/handbook267.html#601?
>
> Which happens *NOT* to mention the key used to bring up the kernel
> debugger, *NOR* the name of it in the keymap tables, mind you.

Well, I see that I mentioned the copy on my system, which wasn't the
intention.  Sorry about that.  It's the same as the version on
http://www.FreeBSD.org.  Still, that makes it easier to confirm that
you didn't check it (a number of other people did).

What problem do you have with the following passage?

> The second scenario is a hot-key on the keyboard, usually
> Ctrl-Alt-ESC.

I don't see any particular reason to mention the name in the keymap
tables.  You only need that if you want to change it, which wasn't
your issue.

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 04:59:15 1998
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Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,pl.comp.os.freebsd,pl.comp.os.linux
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:01:16 +0100 (CET)
From: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
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Hi!

I uploaded to ftp.freebsd.org a file containing one floppy FreeBSD, with
many networking utilities included. The main features are:

* basic filesystem utilities (mount_*, fsck, newfs), includeing ATAPI
CD-ROM support
* networking utilities: ppp, ifconfig, route, routed, netstat, ping,
traceroute, telnet, telnetd, inetd
* support for ed and de ethernet cards
* IP firewall support
* password protected user accounts
* NFS client
* and many, many more (over 60 programs total).

This version is different from the previous one in that it allows for
building a complete router-like solution, while the previous one was
intended primarily for dialup access. It does not contain SSH nor ftp
clients.

Addidtionaly, I've put there a set of scripts that highly automates
creation of such one-floppy setups. In fact, these are the very same
scripts I used to prepare the above mentioned version.

Please see the README included at the end of this message.

The files are:
	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_n.zip
	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_s.zip

The previous verision (intended for dialup access) is:
	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_en.zip

Andrzej Bialecki

---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------
abial@warman.org.pl  | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") }
Research & Academic  | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out."
Network in Poland    | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion.
---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------

1998.01.20, Warsaw, Poland

What is PicoBSD version 'n'?
-----------------------------

It's a mutation of PicoBSD (i.e. one floppy FreeBSD) configured mainly for
networking applications. It can be used as a router or firewall, or 
kind of a fixit floppy (or all of them).

What are minimal requirements?
------------------------------

* 386DX CPU or better (no FPU emulator, sorry)
* 12MB RAM - the more the better. If you have an HDD, you can make a
  swap partition or swap file (using vnode driver and vnconfig). Then you
  probably will be able to run with ca. 6MB only. But RAM is cheap...
* Modem sitting on COM1-COM4 (default is to use COM2), if you want to have
  a PPP connection.
* Network card: compatible with NE2000, or PCI cards with DEC chipsets
  (ed and de drivers). The kernel supports two of them (i.e. four total) plus
  two PPP connections (tun interfaces). So you can easily build something like
  router with as many as 6 outlets :-)

What is different from standard PicoBSD?
----------------------------------------

* More in-kernel drivers
* ATAPI CD-ROM support
* No ssh, ftp nor ee editor (which means you have to mount the floppy on
  normal system in order to edit config files)
* Added: inetd, telnetd, routed, ps, kill, netstat, ping, traceroute
* passwd(1) works (but only if you run it as root)
* Support for NFS client
* There are initially two users: root (password 'setup') and user (password
  'PicoBSD'). I had problems with correctly setting up permissions (as most
  of the programs are just one big file with hard links), so that several
  things which normal user can do here are impossible (no suid bit set). This
  means that normal user can do as much as telnet from the system....
* Added 'update' script which updates the contents of /etc directory on the
  startup floppy (in case you changed e.g. password).

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
!!!!!!!!!! BONUS FOR ALL PICOBSD FANS !!!!!!!!!!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

I think most of you will enjoy the pbsd-s.tgz file bundled with the floppy.
It contains all of the scripts (plus ash [a Shell]) needed to create your own
version of PicoBSD. These are exactly the same scripts I used.

So, if you don't like the version I prepared, or if you think I made a
wrong selection of the programs included, you can make your own version of
one-floppy FreeBSD.

The /scripts directory contains the kernel config file named PICOBSD-N.
You can edit it to suit your needs. Keep in mind, though, that the total space
on the floppy is VERY limited!

Next, you can look into the /crunch{1,2} directories and edit crunch.conf
files to suit your needs. The above remark concerning the space applies also
here - keep in mind that floppies are indeed very small creatures.. :-))

You will need a system with configured pseudo-device vn (consult the config
file of your running kernel), and with /mnt directory available. You'll also
need ca. 4MB of free space (not including the space needed to compile the
kernel, which is ca. 5MB).

Next, you go to the /scripts directory and run ./build script. If all is well,
after some time you end up having a file named /picobsd.flp, which you can
write on a floppy. That's all!

I'll be glad hearing from you about your experiences with PicoBSD. Thanks.

Have fun!
  
Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>

PS. Contrary to the previous version of PicoBSD (which contained ssh), this
version is fully under BSD license.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 06:35:52 1998
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From: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@sunyit.edu>
To: <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: cd player?
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:08:27 -0500
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this is kinda weird, but the only way i can play cd's in my drive is to use
XCD,
xcdplayer,cdcontrol, and kscd don't seem to work... when i press play they
don't really do anything...
they can see the songs and get info off the CD, but they won't play the
cd... for some reason i think that the programs think that the cd is
ejected because kscd flashes that in its status window...

i'm interested for several reasons, first cause i don't like xcd :), second
because if there is a driver problem and not a software problem i'd like to
help, can anyone tell me how i can trace the ioctls calls on the cdrom?


i tell xcd to use /dev/wcd0c
and i hex edited "kscd" to use it too cause it wanted /dev/rcd0c but it's
still won't play my cds

i noticed a lot of talk about ATAPI changes in the source code recently, is
-stable as up to date as -current in that aspect?

the cdrom is a 24x IDE-ATAPI Samsung

relevant dmesg output:
wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa
wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): <SAMSUNG CD-ROM SCR-2431/1.02>, removable, intr, dma,
iordy
wcd0: 687/3445Kb/sec, 382Kb cache, audio play, 255 volume levels, ejectable
tray
wcd0: medium type unknown, unlocked

whenever i use kscd i get the kernel outputting this about 

i'm getting a lot of debug messages from cdcontrol (which spontaniously
decided to start working) from the ATAPI driver....

also somehow i wedged the device by running two cdplayers at the same
time....

can i do anything helpful here?

-Alfred

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 07:42:44 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:40:47 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
Reply-To: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
To: Andrew Kenneth Milton <akm@mother.sneaker.net.au>
cc: "Louis A. Mamakos" <louie@TransSys.COM>, daniel_sobral@voga.com.br,
        tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
In-Reply-To: <199801200415.PAA17887@mother.sneaker.net.au>
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On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:

> | If you're looking for a standard way to move multibyte characters, then
> | choose any one of a number of encodings already used to store multibyte
> | characters in files.
> 
> Moving them's not quite the same as storing them.... byte orders, usually
> come into play a lot more when you've got to shunt the data across a network.
> 
> I think Unicode defines that it is to be stored in network byte order.

Maybe this will clarify things a bit.  From _The Unicode Standard
2.0_, Section 3.1 Conformance Requirements: 

C1. A process shall interpret Unicode code values as 16-bit
    quantities. 

C2. The Unicode Standard does not specify any order of bytes
    inside a Unicode value.
    
C3. A process shall interpret a Unicode value that has been
    serialized into a sequence of bytes, by most significant byte
    first, in the absence of higher level protocols.

If you think of writing to a file as serializing, then C3
applies.  If you think of it as dumping memory, then C2 applies. 
I believe NT takes generally takes the C2 route. Terry, can you
confirm this?  How about for IPC? 

Just as a footnote, UTF-8 is a big win for English text because
it generally ends up 1 character == 1 byte, but is a big loss for
CJK (among others) where 1 character == 3 bytes.  UTF-8 is no
silver bullet for endian debates.

-john


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 09:50:06 1998
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To: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
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How much room to you have left on the floppy...love to get
sync support on one of those...

Dennis


At 02:01 PM 1/20/98 +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I uploaded to ftp.freebsd.org a file containing one floppy FreeBSD, with
>many networking utilities included. The main features are:
>
>* basic filesystem utilities (mount_*, fsck, newfs), includeing ATAPI
>CD-ROM support
>* networking utilities: ppp, ifconfig, route, routed, netstat, ping,
>traceroute, telnet, telnetd, inetd
>* support for ed and de ethernet cards
>* IP firewall support
>* password protected user accounts
>* NFS client
>* and many, many more (over 60 programs total).
>
>This version is different from the previous one in that it allows for
>building a complete router-like solution, while the previous one was
>intended primarily for dialup access. It does not contain SSH nor ftp
>clients.
>
>Addidtionaly, I've put there a set of scripts that highly automates
>creation of such one-floppy setups. In fact, these are the very same
>scripts I used to prepare the above mentioned version.
>
>Please see the README included at the end of this message.
>
>The files are:
>	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_n.zip
>	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_s.zip
>
>The previous verision (intended for dialup access) is:
>	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_en.zip
>
>Andrzej Bialecki
>
>---------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
----
>abial@warman.org.pl  | if(halt_per_mth > 0) {
fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") }
>Research & Academic  | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall
out."
>Network in Poland    | All of the above (and more) is just my personal
opinion.
>---------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
----
>
>1998.01.20, Warsaw, Poland
>
>What is PicoBSD version 'n'?
>-----------------------------
>
>It's a mutation of PicoBSD (i.e. one floppy FreeBSD) configured mainly for
>networking applications. It can be used as a router or firewall, or 
>kind of a fixit floppy (or all of them).
>
>What are minimal requirements?
>------------------------------
>
>* 386DX CPU or better (no FPU emulator, sorry)
>* 12MB RAM - the more the better. If you have an HDD, you can make a
>  swap partition or swap file (using vnode driver and vnconfig). Then you
>  probably will be able to run with ca. 6MB only. But RAM is cheap...
>* Modem sitting on COM1-COM4 (default is to use COM2), if you want to have
>  a PPP connection.
>* Network card: compatible with NE2000, or PCI cards with DEC chipsets
>  (ed and de drivers). The kernel supports two of them (i.e. four total) plus
>  two PPP connections (tun interfaces). So you can easily build something
like
>  router with as many as 6 outlets :-)
>
>What is different from standard PicoBSD?
>----------------------------------------
>
>* More in-kernel drivers
>* ATAPI CD-ROM support
>* No ssh, ftp nor ee editor (which means you have to mount the floppy on
>  normal system in order to edit config files)
>* Added: inetd, telnetd, routed, ps, kill, netstat, ping, traceroute
>* passwd(1) works (but only if you run it as root)
>* Support for NFS client
>* There are initially two users: root (password 'setup') and user (password
>  'PicoBSD'). I had problems with correctly setting up permissions (as most
>  of the programs are just one big file with hard links), so that several
>  things which normal user can do here are impossible (no suid bit set). This
>  means that normal user can do as much as telnet from the system....
>* Added 'update' script which updates the contents of /etc directory on the
>  startup floppy (in case you changed e.g. password).
>
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>!!!!!!!!!! BONUS FOR ALL PICOBSD FANS !!!!!!!!!!
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>I think most of you will enjoy the pbsd-s.tgz file bundled with the floppy.
>It contains all of the scripts (plus ash [a Shell]) needed to create your own
>version of PicoBSD. These are exactly the same scripts I used.
>
>So, if you don't like the version I prepared, or if you think I made a
>wrong selection of the programs included, you can make your own version of
>one-floppy FreeBSD.
>
>The /scripts directory contains the kernel config file named PICOBSD-N.
>You can edit it to suit your needs. Keep in mind, though, that the total
space
>on the floppy is VERY limited!
>
>Next, you can look into the /crunch{1,2} directories and edit crunch.conf
>files to suit your needs. The above remark concerning the space applies also
>here - keep in mind that floppies are indeed very small creatures.. :-))
>
>You will need a system with configured pseudo-device vn (consult the config
>file of your running kernel), and with /mnt directory available. You'll also
>need ca. 4MB of free space (not including the space needed to compile the
>kernel, which is ca. 5MB).
>
>Next, you go to the /scripts directory and run ./build script. If all is
well,
>after some time you end up having a file named /picobsd.flp, which you can
>write on a floppy. That's all!
>
>I'll be glad hearing from you about your experiences with PicoBSD. Thanks.
>
>Have fun!
>  
>Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>
>
>PS. Contrary to the previous version of PicoBSD (which contained ssh), this
>version is fully under BSD license.
>
>
>

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 11:16:28 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801201915.MAA26214@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
To: jfieber@indiana.edu
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:15:41 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: akm@mother.sneaker.net.au, louie@TransSys.COM, daniel_sobral@voga.com.br,
        tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980120101241.26398Z-100000@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu> from "John Fieber" at Jan 20, 98 10:40:47 am
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> > | If you're looking for a standard way to move multibyte characters, then
> > | choose any one of a number of encodings already used to store multibyte
> > | characters in files.
> > 
> > Moving them's not quite the same as storing them.... byte orders, usually
> > come into play a lot more when you've got to shunt the data across a network.
> > 
> > I think Unicode defines that it is to be stored in network byte order.
> 
> Maybe this will clarify things a bit.  From _The Unicode Standard
> 2.0_, Section 3.1 Conformance Requirements: 
> 
> C1. A process shall interpret Unicode code values as 16-bit
>     quantities. 
> 
> C2. The Unicode Standard does not specify any order of bytes
>     inside a Unicode value.
>     
> C3. A process shall interpret a Unicode value that has been
>     serialized into a sequence of bytes, by most significant byte
>     first, in the absence of higher level protocols.
> 
> If you think of writing to a file as serializing, then C3
> applies.  If you think of it as dumping memory, then C2 applies. 
> I believe NT takes generally takes the C2 route. Terry, can you
> confirm this?  How about for IPC? 

For wide character strings for IPC, the character strings are sent
in native byte order with a byte order indicator.  This is consistent
with DCE RPC's XDR, and with the Microsoft bias toward Intel-centric
representation mechanisms.

I believe the File I/O interfaces also expect Intel byte order in the
files, so that they do not have to rewrite thier files for NT on
platforms with network byte order, as opposed to Intel byte order.

> Just as a footnote, UTF-8 is a big win for English text because
> it generally ends up 1 character == 1 byte, but is a big loss for
> CJK (among others) where 1 character == 3 bytes.  UTF-8 is no
> silver bullet for endian debates.

Any multibyte encoding is a loss for:

o	Fixed field storage
o	Forms input
o	Length-limited buffer technologies (like those in most
	modern computer languages in use today).
o	String length calculation

Etc.

8-(.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 11:35:40 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801201935.MAA27183@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
To: louie@TransSys.COM (Louis A. Mamakos)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:35:21 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801200313.WAA20726@whizzo.TransSys.COM> from "Louis A. Mamakos" at Jan 19, 98 10:13:02 pm
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> > The issue is one of stream synchronization.  This is my main problem
> > with UTF over non-error-checked links.  If you have an implicit value
> > boundry, then you are guaranteed a synchronized stream.
> 
> Not applicable.  TCP *is* an error checked link.  Absent application
> implementation errors, you shouldn't get unscynchronized.

Uh, byte order?


> > Re: the FS example: a better example is to perhaps ask if a UNIX
> > FS has provisions for storing "wide characters" (or preferrably,
> > 16bit wchar_t values from ISO10646 aka Unicode) in *directory
> > entries* (the current answer is "no, namei is too stupid").
> 
> Why is this a better example?  It's not like we're trying to name
> transport endpoints with any sort of character strings; the issue
> is "awareness" of the underlying {transport,storage} mechansim.
> 
> There's really no point in reimplementing a transport protocol given
> the literally thousands of man-hours of work by a lot of clever
> people over more than a decade to make TCP work well.

The question is "what is the network prepresentation of the byte values";
see the other part of this thread...


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 12:15:03 1998
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From: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>
To: dennis <dennis@etinc.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
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On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, dennis wrote:

> How much room to you have left on the floppy...love to get
> sync support on one of those...

No problem, but... I hope everyone unerstands that they don't use rubber
to make floppies :-)) In other words, you have to carefully choose what
you put on it.

OTOH: please note that I included ALL scripts which are needed to produce
your own version.

Andrzej Bialecki

---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------
abial@warman.org.pl  | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") }
Research & Academic  | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out."
Network in Poland    | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion.
---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 12:16:34 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: Device Driver 
Reply-To: Gary Jennejohn <garyj@muc.de>
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:10:43 PST."
             <Pine.BSF.3.96.980119100756.382D-100000@zippy.dyn.ml.org> 
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Alex writes:
>On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 daniel_sobral@voga.com.br wrote:
>
>> 1) It would be nice if the driver would compile both under 3.0 and 2.2.
>> Now, I realise this is not _really_ possible, because the define I have to
>> check does not depend on what you are compiling for, but on what the gcc
>> was compiled under. Now, if someone would tell me _what_ this define name,
>> I'd be really grateful. Again, if there is any driver in the 3.0 tree that
>> does this trick already (same driver under both 3.0 and 2.2), would someone
>> kindly indicate it to me?
>
>What about including osreldate.h?  It does depend on the include files
>being installed, but other than that, that's not necesarily compiler
>dependant.  It only assumes that you're not cross compiling.
>Realistically however, two seperate versions are probably the most
>bulletproof idea.
>

osreldate.h isn't accessible during a kernel compile (at least under
-current).

You could try using something like this:
#if defined(__FreeBSD__) && __FreeBSD__ >= 3
#endif

for -current. Works for me.

---
Gary Jennejohn
Home - garyj@muc.de
Work - garyj@fkr.dec.com



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 13:05:07 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801202104.OAA26479@usr06.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Device Driver
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:04:27 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, daniel_sobral@voga.com.br,
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In-Reply-To: <19980120103328.07046@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 20, 98 10:33:28 am
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> > I think there should be a console message about "type xxx to enter the
> > kernel debugger" when the kernel debugger has been enabled.  This is
> > better than a man page documentation, since the hotkey can be changed,
> > and the only accurate information there is must be obtained from the
> > kernel data segment.
> 
> That's a great idea.  While we're at it, how about messages about what
> key combinations to use for switching VTs?  And what key combinations
> to use to erase a character, send a SIGTERM, kill a line.  Yes, I know
> that this often appears, but it's in a format that's confusing for a
> lot of people.

Now you are being silly.  If something which is not normally compiled
in by default is compiled in, it should announce itself.  Just like
devices announce themselves.

Alternately, using your reductio ad absurdum argument, you should get
rid of probe announce messages, since users should know what hardware
they own.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 13:18:57 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801202118.OAA27310@usr06.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
To: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:18:36 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: louie@TransSys.COM, tlambert@primenet.com, daniel_sobral@voga.com.br,
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> I can add that, if I've understood UTF-8 right, it's fairly easy to
> resynchronize in case you happen to lose sync. It just takes one or
> two lost or garbled chars. I think that UTF-8 is one of the ways to
> go. Its only drawback is that it's not compatible with "pure" 8 bits
> ISO-Latin-1 streams as it reuses 0x80-0xff.

It will take up to 3 bytes to resync, since it can take up to 5
bytes to represent a single 16 bit value.

This assumes you are willing to push an arbitrary number of bytes
to get a 16 bit value to the other end of the pipe, and that you are
willing to take the computational overhead of the conversion, and
that you are willing to treat your values as a stream instead of
an external data representation of a structure (ie: you are willling
to give up being able to tell the other end to expect a certain number
of bytes in a transaction).

UTF encoding is evil personified if you are doing database work.  You
never know how many "real" characters (16 bit values) can be stored in
any N bytes of a fixed field..  This makes input complicated, since
you must veto base on the UTF encoding filling up the field or not,
makes it impossible to fully specify field length in a schema, and in
general, makes life Hell.

The people who like UTF encoding are the people who've already had
thier mail forwarded to Hell, mostly though already losing these
programmatically useful abilities to some other evil, like EUC
encoding and ISO2022.

FWIW, CIFS (aka SMB) ships long (Unicode) names over the wire in
wchar_t's in x86 byte order.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 13:27:29 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801202127.OAA27796@usr06.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:27:01 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: louie@TransSys.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <83256592.0040388D.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> from "daniel_sobral@voga.com.br" at Jan 20, 98 08:43:10 am
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> As far as my question goes, that was not the issue. The issue is the
> existance, or not, standards for transporting wide characters over TCP, in
> a higher layer.

If a wchar_t is correctly interpreted as a 16 bit value, then I think
the answer is "yes".

For wchar_t data sent raw, I would say it should be htons/ntohs'ed.

For wchar_t data sent via SMB, I would say Intel byte order

For wchar_t data sent via RPC, I would say XDR (htons/ntohs'ed).

For wchar_t data sent via DCE/RPC, I would say "source host byte order
with byte order indication"... in other words, exactly what DCE/RPC
does for any short or long value.

FWIW, Unicode supports two code points for use in determining byte
order ("normal order" vs. "inverted order") and assumes 16 bits;
AFAIK, ISO10636 did not extend this in the compatability space to
account for the additional 32 bit word order possibilities.  This
is a good reason to treat wchar_t as a 16 bit value.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 13:50:02 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:20:24 -0800
From: Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>
To: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl> stands accused of saying:
> What are minimal requirements?
> ------------------------------
> 
> * 386DX CPU or better (no FPU emulator, sorry)

  You should mention that 486SX processor won't work without a coprocessor
as well. Besides -- the requirement is to have a mathco, not have a 386DX
or better. A 386SX w/ mathco should work perfectly fine.

-- 
Jonathan Mini 					Ingenious Productions
Software Development				P.O. Box 5693,
						Eugene, Or. 97405

 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five."

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 14:08:47 1998
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From: Daniel Leeds <dleeds@dfacades.com>
Message-Id: <199801202211.OAA04073@inertia.dfacades.com>
Subject: land mods
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:11:48 -0800 (PST)
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on an older BSD 4.3 system (FreeBSD 1.1, SunOS 4.1.x) what files
in the kernel source need to be modified to protect against the land.c
attack?

anyone got any ideas/know?

ive got some legacy systems here with access to source trees, but
no official patches to protect.


-- 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Daniel Leeds			Systems Administrator
(310)-581-4100 X227		Digital Facades
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 14:15:21 1998
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To: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@sunyit.edu>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: cd player? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:08:27 CDT."
             <199801201012.KAA25249@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> 
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> i'm interested for several reasons, first cause i don't like xcd :), second
> because if there is a driver problem and not a software problem i'd like to
> help, can anyone tell me how i can trace the ioctls calls on the cdrom?

Stick some debugging printf's in the 'wcd' driver.

> i tell xcd to use /dev/wcd0c
> and i hex edited "kscd" to use it too cause it wanted /dev/rcd0c but it's
> still won't play my cds

'cdcontrol -f /dev/wcd0 play' *should* work it anything is going to 
work.

You can certainly help if you work out how you wedged the driver, and 
what is going wrong with your CD.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 14:49:35 1998
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From: Wee Teck Ng <weeteck@eecs.umich.edu>
Message-Id: <199801202248.RAA27603@singapore.eecs.umich.edu>
Subject: fastintr interrupt handler
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:48:47 -0500 (EST)
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i've a question concerning the two different types of interrupt 
handler: fastintr and slowintr. i've looked at the code in vector.s, 
and somewhat understands what both do. i've also gathered from sio.c
that comm port 1 & 2 uses fastintr. my question is:

- is it safe to use fastintr for keyboard?

thanks
wee teck

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 14:50:24 1998
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Subject: Extra Income
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To: undisclosed-recipients:;


Business Opportunity
Are you looking for a way to make extra money? Are you tired of working 
hard and having little to show for it? Would you like to find something that will 
allow you the financial freedom we all desire? Well, I have the answer for you! 
You can earn that extra money without even leaving your home.  Work the 
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about this fantastic opportunity.  Just pick up the phone and 
call (541)684-3444, or you can email me at ctran@gladstone.uoregon.edu

Don't let another day go by with the same old grind.  Grab a piece of the 
action now.  Call for details and start your journey to a better income, a better 
life.  What do you have to lose? Call me today.

John


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 17:07:26 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:06:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Ian Kallen <ian@gamespot.com>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: HP CD Burners
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It appears as though HP has discontinued making SCSI CD burners... the
rewritable CD's that they have on their website are IDE and parallel port
interfaces only.  My Phillips CDD2000 is puking regularly now and need to
buy a replacement - what are other folks happy with _that's still on the
market_?? The HP 6020's are no longer available...
thanks,
-Ian

--
Ian Kallen						ian@gamespot.com	
	Director of Technology and Web Administration
		SpotMedia Communications
http://www.gamespot.com/		http://www.videogamespot.com/



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 17:14:23 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:14:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric J. Chet" <ejc@bazzle.com>
To: Ian Kallen <ian@gamespot.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: HP CD Burners
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980120170417.27926D-100000@mail.gamespot.com>
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Hello
	I have used the Yamaha CDR200 & CDR400 units without any problems.
The units are flashable, and support packet writing.  If you check out the
CDR FAQ they are rated highly.

Later,

Eric Chet -- ejchet@lucent.com || ejc@bazzle.com
Systems Analysts - Specializing in OOA, OOD and CORBA
Bazzle Systems Consulting, Inc. Software Engineering Services
Empowering Your Business for Internet Commerce

On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Ian Kallen wrote:

> 
> It appears as though HP has discontinued making SCSI CD burners... the
> rewritable CD's that they have on their website are IDE and parallel port
> interfaces only.  My Phillips CDD2000 is puking regularly now and need to
> buy a replacement - what are other folks happy with _that's still on the
> market_?? The HP 6020's are no longer available...
> thanks,
> -Ian
> 
> --
> Ian Kallen						ian@gamespot.com	
> 	Director of Technology and Web Administration
> 		SpotMedia Communications
> http://www.gamespot.com/		http://www.videogamespot.com/
> 
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 17:46:22 1998
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	Wed, 21 Jan 1998 03:44:06 +0200
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 03:44:06 +0200 (IST)
From: Alexander Indenbaum <baum@abirnet.co.il>
To: asami@FreeBSD.ORG
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: bsd.port.mk is broken
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Hi!

Something is broken in bsd.port.mk.
When I try to make X11 port it gives me an error about tcl

3:30am schneider -> /usr/ports/x11/xbuffy# make 
===>  xbuffy-3.3 : You
have an old tcl installation on your machine.
Remove everything that matches /usr/*/*tcl* first.

Here are my tcl installations:
3:34am schneider -> /usr/ports/x11/xbuffy# pkg_info -aI | grep tcl
expect-5.22.0       A sophisticated scripter based on tcl/tk.
tcl-8.0             Tool Command Language.
tcl-7.6             Tool Command Language.

Running pretty resent -stable:
FreeBSD schneider.actcom.co.il 2.2.5-STABLE FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE #12: Sat
Jan 17 08:56:43 IST 1998
root@schneider.actcom.co.il:/usr/src/sys/compile/BAUM  i386

>From other hand on another -stable box it does not happend, only
difference is tcl installation:
3:37am elina -> /usr/ports/x11/xbuffy# pkg_info -aI | grep tcl
tcl-8.0.2           Tool Command Language.



Alexander Indenbaum


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 18:38:53 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801210238.TAA01077@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: fastintr interrupt handler
To: weeteck@eecs.umich.edu (Wee Teck Ng)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:38:20 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801202248.RAA27603@singapore.eecs.umich.edu> from "Wee Teck Ng" at Jan 20, 98 05:48:47 pm
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> i've a question concerning the two different types of interrupt 
> handler: fastintr and slowintr. i've looked at the code in vector.s, 
> and somewhat understands what both do. i've also gathered from sio.c
> that comm port 1 & 2 uses fastintr. my question is:
> 
> - is it safe to use fastintr for keyboard?

For input, probably; for LED changes... ugh.  It would mean you'd need
status so that the fastintr/slow stuff didn't interfere with each other.

I think, though, that Bruce would hate using it for keyboards.  It's
really for stuff with small buffers that has to run to completion in
the interrupt routine (and that's a watered down version of a very
long explanation that Bruce posted a while back).  The one thing I
can think of that I might throw in there would be a floppy tape
driver, and that would be hideous.  8-|.

You can also ask Bruce directly (hopefully on the list so I can save
what he says about it).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 20:00:24 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
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On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Andrzej Bialecki wrote:

> The files are:
> 	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_n.zip
> 	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_s.zip
> 
> The previous verision (intended for dialup access) is:
> 	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_en.zip

  This is great, but can these files be put somewhere where people can FTP
them?  Or can someone change the permissions on them?  Some of the files
in incoming are world-readable and some are not.

> Andrzej Bialecki
> 
> ---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------
> abial@warman.org.pl  | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") }
> Research & Academic  | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out."
> Network in Poland    | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion.
> ---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------


Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 20:21:53 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "Louis A. Mamakos" <louie@TransSys.COM>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections 
References: <199801201935.MAA27183@usr04.primenet.com> 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:35:21 GMT."
             <199801201935.MAA27183@usr04.primenet.com> 
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> > > The issue is one of stream synchronization.  This is my main problem
> > > with UTF over non-error-checked links.  If you have an implicit value
> > > boundry, then you are guaranteed a synchronized stream.
> > 
> > Not applicable.  TCP *is* an error checked link.  Absent application
> > implementation errors, you shouldn't get unscynchronized.
> 
> Uh, byte order?

Oh, come now.  It's not like the problem of how to move multi-octet 
quantities across an octet-oriented communications channel hasen't
been solved for quite a long way.  For example, we manage to move
32 bit TCP sequence numbers (unsigned integers) without too many
byte-order implementation issues.

If you're unwilling to specify an encoding convention of your own,
there are plenty to choose from which provide a portable encoding
format suitable for many different implementation architectures.

You could use XDR.

You could use ASN.1 - plenty of rope here to hang yourself with.

You could choose "big-endian" byte orders.

You could choose "little-endian byte orders.

You could choose to make this problem much more difficult than anyone
might possibly imagine.

The point I made, which is completely lost, is that a reliable octet
stream transport protocol (like TCP) is not the place that you specify 
multibyte character encoding standards.  No one is (should be?) surprised 
that the RS-232 standard is silent on this issue.

> > > Re: the FS example: a better example is to perhaps ask if a UNIX
> > > FS has provisions for storing "wide characters" (or preferrably,
> > > 16bit wchar_t values from ISO10646 aka Unicode) in *directory
> > > entries* (the current answer is "no, namei is too stupid").
> > 
> > Why is this a better example?  It's not like we're trying to name
> > transport endpoints with any sort of character strings; the issue
> > is "awareness" of the underlying {transport,storage} mechansim.
> > 
> > There's really no point in reimplementing a transport protocol given
> > the literally thousands of man-hours of work by a lot of clever
> > people over more than a decade to make TCP work well.
> 
> The question is "what is the network prepresentation of the byte values";
> see the other part of this thread...

My comment was in response to the original poster's remark that
if TCP wasn't going to do this, then was it a better idea to implement
a scheme using UDP or directly over IP.  

If I had to choose, I'd use UTF-8 encodings in big-endian byte order.  This
is, I believe, what the IETF has chosen when dealing with multi-byte
characters which are embedded within other protocols.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 21:50:50 1998
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Subject: -current kernel mangulations
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Hi,
I had trouble with -current, ie ps and top don't work (proc size mismatch), and
neither did quake :( 

so I went back to December the 10th, 97, that fixed ps and top, but quake is 
still broken,
I ran the linux emulator in debug mode and found that is was hanging on select 
on fd=5.
I tried running it with '-nosound -nocdaudio', but the same problem arose.

I am going to try an older copy of the kernel (end of September), which is 
what I was using before
and seeing if that will fix it, but I thought you would like to know :)

So what I am wondering is - Has this been fixed? 
I will probably look into it more next week when I have some time, but I 
didn't want to waste my time
if it was already fixed.

Thanks

---------------
Daniel O'Connor
3rd Year Computer Science at Flinders University
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7200



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 21:58:07 1998
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Message-ID: <19980121162701.64963@lemis.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:27:01 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: David Kelly <dkelly@nebula.tbe.com>
Cc: FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: How to get an older if_de.c?
References: <199801202309.RAA10002@PeeCee.tbe.com>
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You sent this message to -hardware, which doesn't seem appropriate.
I'm following up to -hackers.

On Tue, Jan 20, 1998 at 05:09:40PM -0600, David Kelly wrote:
> I'm guessing the solution to my de0 problem is an older version of
> if_de.c ???
>
> dmesg says:
> de0 <Digital 21040 Ethernet> rev 35 int a irq 11 on pci0:14
> de0: not configured; 21040 pass 2.0 required (0.0 found)
>
> or maybe there is a way to hack my early December version
> into compliance? In the mean time an old NE2000 clone has
> been pressed into service.
>
> I have the CVS directory tree, updated via CTM as of this
> morning. If some one could get me started on how to use CVS
> to trace the history of if_de.c and extract a selected version
> then I'd be happy. Would also like to know how to protect that
> copy against further upgrades on my machine.

OK.

1.  To get the revision history, use cvs log:

> $ cvs log if_de.c
> RCS file: /src/cvs/src/sys/pci/if_de.c,v
> Working file: if_de.c
> head: 1.77
> branch:
> locks: strict
> access list:
> symbolic names:

These are mappings between names and RCS version numbers.  You won't
see the names again in the list of changes, which list only the
version numbers.  Refer back here to tranform the version number to a
version name.

>         v971020: 1.1.1.5
>         RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE: 1.54.2.9
>         v971017: 1.1.1.4
>         NETBSD: 1.1.1
>         v970703: 1.1.1.3
>         WOLLMAN_MBUF: 1.65.0.2
>         BP_WOLLMAN_MBUF: 1.65
>         v970513: 1.1.1.2
>         v970508: 1.1.1.1
>         MATT_THOMAS: 1.1.1
>         RELENG_2_2_2_RELEASE: 1.54.2.5
>         post_smp_merge: 1.64
>         pre_smp_merge: 1.64
>         RELENG_2_2_1_RELEASE: 1.54.2.3
>         RELENG_2_2_0_RELEASE: 1.54.2.3
>         RELENG_2_1_7_RELEASE: 1.29.2.8
>         RELENG_2_1_6_1_RELEASE: 1.29.2.7
>         RELENG_2_1_6_RELEASE: 1.29.2.7
>         RELENG_2_2: 1.54.0.2
>         RELENG_2_2_BP: 1.54
>         RELENG_2_1_5_RELEASE: 1.29.2.5
>         wollman_polling: 1.44.0.2
>         RELENG_2_1_0_RELEASE: 1.29.2.5
>         RELENG_2_1_0: 1.29.0.2
>         RELENG_2_1_0_BP: 1.29
>         RELENG_2_0_5_RELEASE: 1.28.2.1
>         RELENG_2_0_5: 1.28.0.2
>         RELENG_2_0_5_BP: 1.28
>         RELENG_2_0_5_ALPHA: 1.27
>         OLAH_TTCP: 1.7.0.2
>         RELEASE_2_0: 1.7
>         BETA_2_0: 1.6
>         ALPHA_2_0: 1.4
>         V941001: 1.1
> keyword substitution: kv
> total revisions: 102;   selected revisions: 102

The following are the change strings for each version.

> description:
> ----------------------------
> revision 1.77
> date: 1998/01/08 23:42:24;  author: eivind;  state: Exp;  lines: +5 -2
> Make INET a proper option.
>
> This will not make any of object files that LINT create change; there
> might be differences with INET disabled, but hardly anything compiled
> before without INET anyway.  Now the 'obvious' things will give a
> proper error if compiled without inet - ipx_ip, ipfw, tcp_debug.  The
> only thing that _should_ work (but can't be made to compile reasonably
> easily) is sppp :-(
>
> This commit move struct arpcom from <netinet/if_ether.h> to
> <net/if_arp.h>.
> ----------------------------
> revision 1.76
> date: 1997/12/15 20:31:25;  author: eivind;  state: Exp;  lines: +3 -1
> Throw options IPX, IPXIP and IPTUNNEL into opt_ipx.h.
>
> The #ifdef IPXIP in netipx/ipx_if.h is OK (used from ipx_usrreq.c and
> ifconfig.c only).
>
> I also fixed a typo IPXTUNNEL -> IPTUNNEL (and #ifdef'ed out the code
> inside, as it never could have compiled - doh.)

2.  To check out a version, you can use either a date spec, a version
    name, or a version number.  For example, you may determine that
    you want the version before the SMP merge (label pre_smp_merge:
    1.64).  Here's the checkin information (from cvs log):

      revision 1.64
      date: 1997/04/05 07:59:41;  author: phk;  state: Exp;  lines: +2 -2
      Recognize ZNYX 314 cards that have a MAC address with the low bit set.

   You can use one of the following methods to check out this version:

   a.  By date:

       cvs update -D "5 April 1997 07:59:41 UTC" if_de.c

   Note that RCS (and thus cvs) keeps its dates in UTC, so it's best
   to specify your dates in UTC.  You can specify them locally, but
   you then need to convert the time correctly.  RCS looks for the
   latest version which existed at the time you specified: if you
   specify "5 April 1997 07:59 UTC", you will get an older version,
   but if you specify "5 April 1997 08:00 UTC" you'll get the one you
   want.

   b.  By revision number:

       cvs update -r1.64 if_de.c

   c.  By revision tag:

       cvs update -r pre_smp_merge if_de.c

A word of caution: all these methods are "sticky".  Any further update
will give you the same version until you tell cvs something else.  For
example, when you're ready for the latest and greatest version again,
you can write:

       cvs update -A if_de.c

cvs keeps information on the current version in the file CVS/Entries.
To see which version you currently have, enter:

  $ grep if_de.c CVS/Entries
  /if_de.c/1.64/Wed Jan 21 05:48:58 1998//D97.04.05.08.00.00

Let me know if you need any more information; I'll add this to the
next edition of "The Complete FreeBSD".

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 22:07:23 1998
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From: Alex Belits <abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us>
To: "Louis A. Mamakos" <louie@TransSys.COM>
cc: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>, daniel_sobral@voga.com.br,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections 
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On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Louis A. Mamakos wrote:

> If I had to choose, I'd use UTF-8 encodings in big-endian byte order.  This
> is, I believe, what the IETF has chosen when dealing with multi-byte
> characters which are embedded within other protocols.

  IETF "has chosen" UTF-8 (and Unicode) after every nation, with or 
without multibyte alphabet, rejected Unicode as a standard, but some
well-known company decided to make "internationalization standard" based
on Unicode (and still failed to implement it properly even in their also
well-known OS).

  UTF-8 got a lot of support in Western Europe and US, however it should
be mentioned that when converted to Unicode and then UTF-8, ASCII text is
the same as before encoding, iso8859-1 (Latin1) has trivial back 
conversion, but other languages look umm... too unstructured for their
native speakers to say the least.

  There is a number of issues of linguistic, technical and political
nature that were ignored when Unicode was designed, in other words
everything made in local standards was thrown away, and just all known
at the moment (and considered to be worthy enough to be included)
characters were listed in some order resembling their alphabets. UTF-8
encoding is blatantly US/European-centric -- that can be justified
(it's supposed to be used for everything, and most of "everything" is
ASCII text), but it's ridiculous for other languages, and I haven't even
started talking about regexps and text processing over variable-length
characters or constant encoding/decoding into fixed-length Unicode that
UTF-8 makes necessary for everything but "word processing" that some
people confuse with the use of computers.

   Currently no one uses Unicode for anything serious in non-European
languages, and since MIME has no problems with charsets labeling, people
continue to use local charsets that reflect local language's structure way
better than Unicode. However it looks like this "yet another Esperanto" is
going to be the next way of making more money selling "new" software with
"standards compliance" sticker without actually providing any languages
support and without compatibility with anything that currently is in use.

--
Alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 22:09:58 1998
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To: "Daniel O'Connor" <doconnor@gsoft.com.au>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: -current kernel mangulations 
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(Should probably have gone to -emulation)

> I had trouble with -current, ie ps and top don't work (proc size mismatch), and
> neither did quake :( 

The first two are expected, the latter not a recognised complaint.

> so I went back to December the 10th, 97, that fixed ps and top, but quake is 
> still broken,
> I ran the linux emulator in debug mode and found that is was hanging on select 
> on fd=5.
> I tried running it with '-nosound -nocdaudio', but the same problem arose.

It would, naturally, be very useful to know what is on fd 5.  Could you 
try running it under ktrace, and use the linux_kdump in the ports 
collection to work out what it's opening.

It *sounds* like this may be a select->poll change problem.

> Daniel O'Connor
> 3rd Year Computer Science at Flinders University
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7200

You need a new .sig.  8)

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 22:14:53 1998
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Message-Id: <199801210612.BAA25394@bual.research.att.com>
From: John Ioannidis <ji@research.att.com>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: rebuilding world after a cvsup
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After my first full cvsup, I went to /usr/src and typed "make
buildworld" followed by "make installworld", and things were (much to
my amazement) worked. However, it is not obvious to me how to do
another make after a cvsup which updates just a few files; a plain
"make" does not appear to do the right thing (and indeed, when
followed by "make install" trashed my machine the one time I tried
it), and make buildworld erases everything and rebuilds it from
scratch. Surely there must be a better way than leaving the thing to
compile for a couple of hours! 

Any ideas?

Thanks,

/ji

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 22:16:39 1998
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Subject: ports vs. packages
Reply-To: ji@research.att.com
Organization: AT&T Labs - Research
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The ports and the packages collection don't seem to be mutually
consistent; there are ports for which there are no packages (which is
not a problem), and packages for which there are no ports (which
is). What gives?

Thanks

/ji

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 22:23:17 1998
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To: Alexander Indenbaum <baum@abirnet.co.il>
cc: asami@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: bsd.port.mk is broken 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 1998 03:44:06 +0200."
             <Pine.LNX.3.95.980121033217.11793A-100000@wizard.abirnet.co.il> 
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:22:55 -0800
Message-ID: <15803.885363775@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> 3:30am schneider -> /usr/ports/x11/xbuffy# make 
> ===>  xbuffy-3.3 : You
> have an old tcl installation on your machine.
> Remove everything that matches /usr/*/*tcl* first.

Not to worry - it seems that several people have been making various
changes to the ports collection lately which violate the principal of
least surprise and generate lots of tech support emails like this. :-)

I'd like to see this check backed out, myself.  If its intention was
to protect the users, it's only confused the piss out of them.  I
should know because I get many such messages like this in my personal
inbox.  "What happened?  Why is it saying this now?  How can I make it
stop?"

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 22:36:00 1998
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To: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
cc: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:22:10 PST."
             <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980120192015.3713D-100000@misery.sdf.com> 
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:35:39 -0800
Message-ID: <15898.885364539@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> > The files are:
> > 	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_n.zip
> > 	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_s.zip
> > 
> > The previous verision (intended for dialup access) is:
> > 	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pb_en.zip
> 
>   This is great, but can these files be put somewhere where people can FTP
> them?  Or can someone change the permissions on them?  Some of the files

I've moved them into ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/picoBSD
so that they're both world-readable and also grouped together.  If
Andrzej wants to also upload a README now that he has his own subdir,
that might also be a good thing. :-)

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 22:42:06 1998
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To: Alexander Indenbaum <baum@abirnet.co.il>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: bsd.port.mk is broken
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If you read CVS, bsd.port.mk was changed by asami on Janurary 2nd to check
for old versions of TCL, rather then checking the version of TCL, it just
checks to see if TCL is installed in (Asami's words) "the old place" <read
in: default location for all TCL, except for added by the new
ports/packages>. 

IMHO, this is a flaw, but what can you do.. besides nuke the files from
the locations, or tell bsd.port.mk not to check. (grep -i tcl
/usr/share/mk/bsd.port.mk to see where it checks). 

would be much nicer to grab TCL_VERSION out of tcl.h, but when I presented
that to him I never got a reply.. 

_</dev/random>________________________________________________________________
thomas stromberg % sysadmin(royal.institute.of.technology@haninge/stockholm)
smtp(dev.random@dev.random.nu)%irc(devrandom)%talkd(random@dev.random.nu)
"nothing is impossible, some things just take more lines of perl than others"


> Something is broken in bsd.port.mk.
> When I try to make X11 port it gives me an error about tcl
> 
> have an old tcl installation on your machine.
> Remove everything that matches /usr/*/*tcl* first.
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 23:50:15 1998
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Subject: Re: bsd.port.mk is broken
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If you read CVS, bsd.port.mk was changed by asami on Janurary 2nd to check
for old versions of TCL, rather then checking the version of TCL, it just
checks to see if TCL is installed in (Asami's words) "the old place" <read
in: default location for all TCL, except for added by the new
ports/packages>. 

IMHO, this is a flaw, but what can you do.. besides nuke the files from
the locations, or tell bsd.port.mk not to check. (grep -i tcl
/usr/share/mk/bsd.port.mk to see where it checks). 

would be much nicer to grab TCL_VERSION out of tcl.h, but when I presented
that to him I never got a reply.. 

_</dev/random>________________________________________________________________
thomas stromberg % sysadmin(royal.institute.of.technology@haninge/stockholm)
smtp(dev.random@dev.random.nu)%irc(devrandom)%talkd(random@dev.random.nu)
"nothing is impossible, some things just take more lines of perl than others"


> Something is broken in bsd.port.mk.
> When I try to make X11 port it gives me an error about tcl
> 
> have an old tcl installation on your machine.
> Remove everything that matches /usr/*/*tcl* first.
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 23:55:05 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:45:58 +0100 (CET)
From: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>
To: Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
In-Reply-To: <19980120132024.04153@micron.mini.net>
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On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Jonathan Mini wrote:

> Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl> stands accused of saying:
> > What are minimal requirements?
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > * 386DX CPU or better (no FPU emulator, sorry)
> 
>   You should mention that 486SX processor won't work without a coprocessor
> as well. Besides -- the requirement is to have a mathco, not have a 386DX
> or better. A 386SX w/ mathco should work perfectly fine.

You're right. I'll change it.

BTW: the set of scripts I mentioned lacks some diffs, which I handcrafted
on my machine and then forgot about them :-). It's possible to make a
floppy without them, but there will be some errors due to missing
libs (I cut out some of the functionality from login(1) and passwd(1) to 
save space). I'll upload these diffs ASAP, together with the README, to:

	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/picoBSD

And thanks, Jordan, for arranging this so quick.

This also reminds me of something: I think it would be cute to incorporate
the splashscreen stuff into this - I expect it to be not more than few kB,
and it would look nice on a demo/giveaway diskette... :-)

Andrzej Bialecki

---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------
abial@warman.org.pl  | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") }
Research & Academic  | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out."
Network in Poland    | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion.
---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 23:59:31 1998
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To: ji@research.att.com
CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199801210613.BAA25398@bual.research.att.com> (message from John Ioannidis on Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:13:42 -0500 (EST))
Subject: Re: ports vs. packages
From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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 * To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG

Why do people ask this sort of thing on -hackers?  -ports, guys,
-ports!  There's a mailing list for that kind of stuff!

 * The ports and the packages collection don't seem to be mutually
 * consistent; there are ports for which there are no packages (which is
 * not a problem), and packages for which there are no ports (which
 * is). What gives?

Examples please.  (And tell me the exact location you found
them...it's probably just that I forgot to delete an obsolete
package.)

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Tue Jan 20 23:59:37 1998
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To: jkh@time.cdrom.com
CC: baum@abirnet.co.il, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <15803.885363775@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com)
Subject: Re: bsd.port.mk is broken
From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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 * > 3:30am schneider -> /usr/ports/x11/xbuffy# make 
 * > ===>  xbuffy-3.3 : You
 * > have an old tcl installation on your machine.
 * > Remove everything that matches /usr/*/*tcl* first.
 * 
 * Not to worry - it seems that several people have been making various
 * changes to the ports collection lately which violate the principal of
 * least surprise and generate lots of tech support emails like this. :-)

Sorry, I was going to fix it but was kinda sidetracked by various
things.

However, it is interesting to note that nobody, I repeat nobody has
given me any hand in improving the error check and message.  That
includes several committers who were complaining about it on the
lists.  That is sad.

 * I'd like to see this check backed out, myself.  If its intention was
 * to protect the users, it's only confused the piss out of them.  I
 * should know because I get many such messages like this in my personal
 * inbox.  "What happened?  Why is it saying this now?  How can I make it
 * stop?"

Please forward those mails to me.  I will personally reply to anyone
who is inconvenienced by my changes.

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 00:12:02 1998
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To: ji@research.att.com
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ports vs. packages 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:13:42 EST."
             <199801210613.BAA25398@bual.research.att.com> 
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:46:50 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> not a problem), and packages for which there are no ports (which

1. Can you enumerate them?

2. Can you send this to ports@freebsd.org instead? :)

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 00:26:42 1998
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Message-ID: <19980121185627.21744@lemis.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:56:27 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Locking on disk slice I/O--yes, no or how?
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I'm currently trying to perform low-level I/O to disk slices in a
driver.  I've read section 9 of the manual, which tells me that all
reads and writes should be protected with a VOP_LOCK/VOP_UNLOCK pair.
I've tried this, and get a panic: "lockmgr: locking against myself"

Looking at the dump, I find that my vnode does not appear to be
locked.  Here it is without most of the fields.

(kgdb) p *devvp
$12 = {
  v_flag = 0, 
  v_usecount = 1, 
  v_writecount = 0, 
  v_type = VCHR, 
  v_un = {
    vu_mountedhere = 0xf0337820, 
    vu_socket = 0xf0337820, 
    vu_specinfo = 0xf0337820, 
    vu_fifoinfo = 0xf0337820
  }, 
  v_interlock = {
    lock_data = 0
  }, 
  v_vnlock = 0x0, 
  v_tag = VT_UFS, 
  v_data = 0xf0548700,    /* this seems to be used by the locks */
  }
}

The following code leads to a panic:

    VOP_LOCK (devvp, LK_EXCLUSIVE, curproc);		    /* lock the vnode */
    error = VOP_WRITE (devvp, &uio, IO_NODELOCKED, FSCRED); /* write the header */
    VOP_UNLOCK (devvp, 0, curproc);			    /* and unlock it again */

#1  0xf011bdaf in panic (fmt=0xf01172cf "lockmgr: locking against myself") at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:425
#2  0xf0117540 in lockmgr (lkp=0xf0548700, flags=2, interlkp=0xf052365c, p=0xf04fda00) at ../../kern/kern_lock.c:288
#3  0xf0138071 in vop_stdlock (ap=0xf3a45cac) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:194
#4  0xf01c1a41 in ufs_vnoperatespec (ap=0xf3a45cac) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2186
#5  0xf3cec47e in save_config () at vnode_if.h:811

Looking at the stack frame for vop_stdlock, it looks as if I'm trying
to use my devvp->v_data as lock data to lock against my own vnode.  I
can't make sense of this (except that, under these circumstances, I
can understand the panic).  I have a number of questions:

1.  What is the lock manager trying to do here?  What's the content of
    devvp->v_data?

2.  Why do I need to lock at all?  According to the 4.4BSD book, it's
    "advisory", and then only for directory searches and such.

3.  Are the parameters correct?  It looks as if I shouldn't specify
    curproc in the calls, but I can't find any documentation that
    tells me what to put there, nor indeed what use the whole thing
    is.

4.  This device is /dev/rsd1e.  Should I even be calling
    ufs_vnoperatespec?

5.  Am I doing anything else obviously wrong?

Greg


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 00:36:49 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:35:59 -0800 (PST)
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To: dev.random@dev.random.nu
CC: baum@abirnet.co.il, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980121073422.12980A-100000@iskh122.haninge.kth.se> (dev.random@dev.random.nu)
Subject: Re: bsd.port.mk is broken
From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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 * IMHO, this is a flaw, but what can you do.. besides nuke the files from
 * the locations, or tell bsd.port.mk not to check. (grep -i tcl
 * /usr/share/mk/bsd.port.mk to see where it checks). 

You can get by it for now by defining NO_IGNORE when calling make.

 * would be much nicer to grab TCL_VERSION out of tcl.h, but when I presented
 * that to him I never got a reply.. 

It is because it is not checking the release version of tcl/tk, it is
checking whether you are using a version installed by an old FreeBSD
system (either src or ports)!  I told you exactly that in mail, you
sent me another one suggesting me to grab TCL_VERSION (which has
nothing to do with the "version" we are talking here), so I ignored
it.  Sorry about that, but I was kinda busy you know.

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 01:11:47 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:09:41 +0200 (EET)
From: Calin Andrian <calin@ibd.dbio.ro>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: APC BackUPS driver
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980120091105.10019A-100000@callisto.fortean.com>
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On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Bruce M. Walter wrote:

> 
> I have a DPT SCSI RAID controller here whose driver uses
> at_shutdown/POSTSYNC to flush it's (enormous!) internal disk buffers.
> When the power goes off during this it insures lost data.  I didn't get
> bit by this with your code (I did it all by myself ;) but just wanted to
> warn you in case you wanted to put a note in your tarball.
> 
> I have a solution which works in all cases and supports any cable
> configuration, but requires a kernel patch :(  I've been looking for a way
> around this and will let you know if I find one.  Keep up the good work.

I didn't think there could be any real trouble. I looked through the
standard kernel sources and didn't find any critical devices wanting to do
anything at shutdown. On the other hand, I gave it a moment's thought
about patching kern_shutdown.c but quit really quick. Now that you opened
my eyes I think that maybe it's time to add another option (and list of
routines - or only ONE routine) to at_shutdown. Something like
at_shutdown(func, arg, SHUTDOWN_FOR_REAL) ment specifically for shutting
down power.

I'll look into it.

I'd like to work on it now that I already started this UPS matter.

Later,

Calin



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 01:38:57 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96
To: Lars Koeller <Lars.Koeller@HRZ.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Fastvid module available! 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:00:43 +0100."
             <199801090700.AA299089244@pollux.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> 
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:36:40 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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This is a multipart MIME message.

--==_Exmh_200000320
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


Hi,

A couple of things I had to hack fastvid a little in order to get it
to compile on -current.



1. I would like to see a user land program set the values, for example:
./fastvid 0x9800000 00x4000000 


2. Ability to set multiple ranges useful in my case because I have
   Diamond Monster 3d and a Matrox Millenium.

3. Dump the registers

4. If the pci code is up to it it would be nice to dump the pci configuration
   for all the devices and if possible properly identify the devices. 
   The probe code already does some of this so it should not be that 
   difficult if the pci code can return a list of currently installed pci
   devices along with their respective configuration.

	Tnks!
	Amancio



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--==_Exmh_200000320--



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 02:10:16 1998
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From: Calin Andrian <calin@ibd.dbio.ro>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: APC Back UPS monitor
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I renamed the tarball and included warnings about possible problems.
Please wait for future versions, as I want to do the package work
without problems. Current version is:

ftp://ftp.dbio.ro/pub/FreeBSD/local/apcb-0.1.tgz

Calin



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 02:17:56 1998
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To: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>
cc: Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:45:58 +0100."
             <Pine.NEB.3.95.980121083514.4640A-100000@korin.warman.org.pl> 
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Hi,

Really cool floppy for sure I am going to take it to work (HP ) 8)


Since we are now blessed with fast ide cdroms , it would be really
cool to have a CDROM version of picoBSD . The space is nice however,
I am thinking that we can boot a lot faster from a CD ...

	Cheers,
	Amancio



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 02:23:36 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:33:54 +0100
From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac)
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Cc: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac), louie@TransSys.COM,
        daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
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According to Terry Lambert:
[ UTF-8 ]
> It will take up to 3 bytes to resync, since it can take up to 5
> bytes to represent a single 16 bit value.

I assume you mean 32 bit? I think (don't have the draft handy) that's
a little more complicated than that, because there if I remember
correctly there are "collisions" between prefix codes and multibyte
encodings. But that's the idea.

> This assumes you are willing to push an arbitrary number of bytes
> to get a 16 bit value to the other end of the pipe, and that you are
> willing to take the computational overhead of the conversion,

Yes, but you have to take a computational overhead anyway, even
with fixed width characters, if you are to convert to network
byte order.

> and
> that you are willing to treat your values as a stream instead of
> an external data representation of a structure (ie: you are willling
> to give up being able to tell the other end to expect a certain number
> of bytes in a transaction).

In the case of a telnet connection or mainly ASCII transfer, this makes
sense: I certainly don't feel like I'm ready to take a fourfold
performance loss due to wider characters :-)

When putting this in a database system, you obviously don't _have_ to
use UTF-8 internally, that's purely an implementation issue.

Now I agree using UTF-8 in RPCs can be difficult, but after all isn't
the RPC layer supposed to hide exactly these kinds of things from
the application programmer?

> The people who like UTF encoding are the people who've already had
> thier mail forwarded to Hell,

I'm quite sure you mean X400 :-). Don't worry about me, I'm not a
UTF-8 specialist, not a UTF-8 user and even less a UTF-8 advocate
(not to mention I hate X400).

I was just pointing out that it would be silly to reinvent the wheel
if that's to come up with something similar to UTF-8.
-- 
Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 02:29:43 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:29:35 -0800
From: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@efn.org>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Cc: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>, Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>,
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
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Organization: Cu Networking
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Amancio Hasty scribbled this message on Jan 21:
> Since we are now blessed with fast ide cdroms , it would be really
> cool to have a CDROM version of picoBSD . The space is nice however,
> I am thinking that we can boot a lot faster from a CD ...

not so much the speed booting, but think of what you could put on
650megs of space?  you could do a nice Xserver with that... where you
grab the xf86 config file off of some anon ftp server or something...
you would have complete local fonts...

for $450 you could get a 8x cdrom, 32megs ram, 4meg video card (s3 virge
based), k5/133, keyboard, mouse...  add $200 to $1000 for a monitor and
you have a nice xterminal... :)

-- 
  John-Mark Gurney                          Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954
  Cu Networking					  P.O. Box 5693, 97405

  Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 02:49:22 1998
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Subject: mouse in text mode
Date: 21 Jan 1998 12:45:14 +0200
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From: Vladimir Litovka <doka@grunt.vl.net.ua>
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Hello!

 I need to change range of characters, used by mouse in text mode. There is
 somewhere in syscons.c, I think. Can anybody say, where and what I need to
 change?

-- 
     Vladimir Litovka <doka@grunt.vl.net.ua>,  hostmaster of vl.net.ua
     ---------------- Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 02:50:36 1998
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> My comment was in response to the original poster's remark
> that if TCP wasn't going to do this, then was it a better
> idea to implement a scheme using UDP or directly over IP.

You completely misread my remark. I said that not dealing with wide
character issues because they can be sent as bytes in a tcp stream would be
the same as not implementing tcp at all because you can resort to ip.

Why use TCP if IP provides everything you need? Because TCP is a standard
way of doing a common kind of connection. Now, TCP goes _over_ IP. My
question is similar to "how do I provide <tcp characteristics> over IP
connections?" The answer would be "use tcp". Well, I'm asking how do I send
wide characters over tcp connections?

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 02:55:09 1998
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To: ji@research.att.com
CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199801210612.BAA25394@bual.research.att.com> (message from John Ioannidis on Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:12:16 -0500 (EST))
Subject: Re: rebuilding world after a cvsup
From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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 * After my first full cvsup, I went to /usr/src and typed "make
 * buildworld" followed by "make installworld", and things were (much to
 * my amazement) worked. However, it is not obvious to me how to do
 * another make after a cvsup which updates just a few files; a plain
 * "make" does not appear to do the right thing (and indeed, when
 * followed by "make install" trashed my machine the one time I tried
 * it), and make buildworld erases everything and rebuilds it from
 * scratch. Surely there must be a better way than leaving the thing to
 * compile for a couple of hours! 

See /usr/src/Makefile.  You probably just need to add -DNOCLEAN to
your make command line and it will work most of the time.

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 04:21:00 1998
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> Well, I see that I mentioned the copy on my system, which
> wasn't the intention.  Sorry about that.  It's the same as
> the version on http://www.FreeBSD.org.  Still, that makes
> it easier to confirm that you didn't check it (a number
> of other people did).

I didn't check your link because reading the FreeBSD page was the first
thing I did to learn about kernel debugging, even before the man page.

> What problem do you have with the following passage?

"The second scenario is a hot-key on the keyboard, usually
Ctrl-Alt-ESC."

> I don't see any particular reason to mention the name in the keymap
> tables.  You only need that if you want to change it, which wasn't
> your issue.

Well, my problem with that passage is that that wasn't the key. Ok, so
Crtl-Alt-ESC does not work, what now? I admit I didn't check us.iso.kbd,
which, in retrospect, I should have done, because the keyboard map I was
using was created based on us.iso.kbd (I know, I created it). So, tell me
something, in a vanilla system (ie., without any changes you my have made),
is Crtl-Alt-ESC "debug" in us.iso.kbd (supposing that's the keyboard
referenced by "usually", since "usually" did not apply to _my_ keyboard)?
(Don't bother checking -- I just did, from ftp.freebsd.org, and it is not.)

So, my issue was, I *had* to change it, or at least discover *what* key was
associated with it. Or, in other words, precisely what you are saying was
not my issue.

Now, you may have taken an issue with my statement that "worse of all was
the handbook". It should be stated here that this relates _exclusively_
with the "how do I enter ddb" issue. Aside from this issue, the handbook
was as usual as ever, and in no time (after UTSLing the debug key) at all I
was debugging my driver.

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 05:10:41 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:06:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>
To: dev.random@dev.random.nu
cc: Alexander Indenbaum <baum@abirnet.co.il>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: bsd.port.mk is broken
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 dev.random@dev.random.nu wrote:

> If you read CVS, bsd.port.mk was changed by asami on Janurary 2nd to check
> for old versions of TCL, rather then checking the version of TCL, it just
> checks to see if TCL is installed in (Asami's words) "the old place" <read
> in: default location for all TCL, except for added by the new
> ports/packages>. 

If you have Tcl installed in /usr/include and /usr/lib, ports
cannot be expected to work reliably.  If you have an old Tcl from
the ports system installed in /usr/local/include and
/usr/local/lib, ports cannot be expected to work reliably.  If
you have tcl.h anywhere in any of the include path, ports cannot
be expected to work reliably.

When Satoshi sent the patches out for everyone to review before
committing them, it occurred to me to suggest that the check be
made less forcefully, perhaps only when the port being built
actually uses Tcl, and I accept the blame for not suggesting
this, but the simple fact is that the Tcl ports are not expected
to know that the Tcl they find in /usr[/local]/include cannot be
used.


--
Outnumbered?  Maybe.  Outspoken?  Never!
tIM...HOEk


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 05:51:44 1998
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Subject: Re: New typedefs in sys/types.h
References: <199801122349.PAA21649@hub.freebsd.org>
Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 21 Jan 1998 14:50:58 +0100
In-Reply-To: Darren Reed's message of "Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:48:34 +1100 (EDT)"
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Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au> writes:
> Of course, wherever size matters, you should be using u_int32_t or
> u_int16_t or u_int64_t.

Ah, haven't you heard yet? Everybody knows it's not the size that
matters... ;)

-- 
 * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
  RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 06:58:22 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:58:14 -0600 (CST)
From: "Lee Crites (AEI)" <leec@adam.adonai.net>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking 
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote:
=>Since we are now blessed with fast ide cdroms , it would be really
=>cool to have a CDROM version of picoBSD . The space is nice however,
=>I am thinking that we can boot a lot faster from a CD ...

If you had a cd-rom, though (and a few hundred k of local disk
space for swap), couldn't you just put the entire FreeBSD system
on it?


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 07:16:17 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:20:16 +0200 (EET)
From: Calin Andrian <calin@ibd.dbio.ro>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Kernel patches for POWEROFF
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While playing with my APC back-ups I was advised by Bruce M. Walter that
the POST_SYNC queue is not the safe place for a poweroff routine. The
way to do it is to patch the kernel. The patches follow.

The new, improved and packed with these diffs APC Back-UPS monitor
is now: ftp://ftp.dbio.ro/pub/FreeBSD/local/apcb-0.2.tgz

Sorry for respawning so rapidly.

WHAT THE DIFFS CHANGE:

at_shutdown() has a new queue named SHUTDOWN_POWEROFF which calls functions
that are supposed to turn off the power (after POST_SYNC queue is done).
This happens when /sbin/reboot and its links are run with -p switch.
Maybe it should have been a single function not a whole queue, but the
list ops were already there, so...

/sbin/reboot no longer defines RB_HALT when called with -p switch.
This means that if the poweroff fails, the system reboots for /sbin/reboot
and halts for /sbin/halt. For example, if the APC back-ups has AC input,
you cannot shut down the UPS (it ignores you). So, if the power was
restored after you committed the system shutdown, the system restarts
immediately. The original /sbin/reboot didn't allow this.
If you don't want to reboot, use /sbin/halt !

DIFFS: (3 pcs)

*** /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c.orig	Wed Jan 21 12:53:39 1998
--- /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c	Wed Jan 21 13:13:45 1998
***************
*** 118,123 ****
--- 118,124 ----
   */
  static sle_p shutdown_list1;
  static sle_p shutdown_list2;
+ static sle_p shutdown_list3;
  
  
  static void dumpsys(void);
***************
*** 247,252 ****
--- 248,265 ----
  		(*ep->function)(howto, ep->arg);
  		ep = ep->next;
  	}
+ 	if (howto & RB_POWEROFF) {
+ 		printf("\nTurning off power...\n");
+ 		DELAY(1000 * 1000);
+ 		ep = shutdown_list3;
+ 		while (ep) {
+ 			shutdown_list3 = ep->next;
+ 			(*ep->function)(howto, ep->arg);
+ 			ep = ep->next;
+ 		}
+ 		DELAY(5000 * 1000);	/* Wait 5 secs for power off */
+ 					/* Continue if power off failed */
+ 	}
  	splhigh();
  	if (howto & RB_HALT) {
  		printf("\n");
***************
*** 411,416 ****
--- 424,432 ----
  	case SHUTDOWN_POST_SYNC:
  		epp = &shutdown_list2;
  		break;
+ 	case SHUTDOWN_POWEROFF:
+ 		epp = &shutdown_list3;
+ 		break;
  	default:
  		printf("bad exit callout list specified\n");
  		return (EINVAL);
***************
*** 451,456 ****
--- 467,484 ----
  		ep = *epp;
  	}
  	epp = &shutdown_list2;
+ 	ep = *epp;
+ 	while (ep) {
+ 		if ((ep->function == function) && (ep->arg == arg)) {
+ 			*epp = ep->next;
+ 			free(ep, M_TEMP);
+ 			count++;
+ 		} else {
+ 			epp = &ep->next;
+ 		}
+ 		ep = *epp;
+ 	}
+ 	epp = &shutdown_list3;
  	ep = *epp;
  	while (ep) {
  		if ((ep->function == function) && (ep->arg == arg)) {

*** /usr/src/sbin/reboot/reboot.c.orig	Wed Jan 21 13:09:08 1998
--- /usr/src/sbin/reboot/reboot.c	Wed Jan 21 13:09:36 1998
***************
*** 85,91 ****
  			break;
  		case 'p':
  			pflag = 1;
! 			howto |= (RB_POWEROFF | RB_HALT);
  			break;
  		case 'q':
  			qflag = 1;
--- 85,91 ----
  			break;
  		case 'p':
  			pflag = 1;
! 			howto |= RB_POWEROFF;
  			break;
  		case 'q':
  			qflag = 1;

*** /usr/src/sys/sys/systm.h.orig	Wed Jan 21 13:11:56 1998
--- /usr/src/sys/sys/systm.h	Wed Jan 21 13:11:27 1998
***************
*** 171,176 ****
--- 171,177 ----
  int rm_at_shutdown(bootlist_fn function, void *arg);
  #define SHUTDOWN_PRE_SYNC 0
  #define SHUTDOWN_POST_SYNC 1
+ #define SHUTDOWN_POWEROFF 2
  
  /* forking */ /* XXX not yet */
  typedef void (*forklist_fn)(struct proc *parent,struct proc *child,int flags);


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 07:23:34 1998
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To: Calin Andrian <calin@ibd.dbio.ro>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: APC BackUPS driver 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:09:41 +0200."
             <Pine.BSF.3.96.980121085317.5071A-100000@ibd.dbio.ro> 
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:45:10 +1030
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> 
> I didn't think there could be any real trouble. I looked through the
> standard kernel sources and didn't find any critical devices wanting to do
> anything at shutdown.

... apart from all those outstanding disk buffers?

> On the other hand, I gave it a moment's thought
> about patching kern_shutdown.c but quit really quick. Now that you opened
> my eyes I think that maybe it's time to add another option (and list of
> routines - or only ONE routine) to at_shutdown. Something like
> at_shutdown(func, arg, SHUTDOWN_FOR_REAL) ment specifically for shutting
> down power.

Er, if I were you I would look at where cpu_shutdown() is called; this is 
where the APM code cuts the power.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 07:29:14 1998
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From: Ken Hansen <khansen@njcc.com>
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To: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
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        Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
References: <Pine.NEB.3.95.980121083514.4640A-100000@korin.warman.org.pl> <199801211017.CAA04279@rah.star-gate.com> <19980121022935.45924@hydrogen.nike.efn.org>
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Hello,
	FYI - I just put together a system w/K5/133, 16 Meg, floppy & 2 Meg
Video
case, keyboard & mouse (all new) for $225, add a CD-ROM for $50, 16 Meg
more
RAM for $40, and you're at $315. Throw in a network card, $50 (for a
good DEC
based one) and you're at $365. There is room for an HD in that price
(but I 
had an 850 Meg on the shelf, along with a CD-ROM & RAM).

	I like the one-floppy OS for a simple use - walking up to any PC
w/modem,
reboot, and I can call my home network and do LOTS of text-based work in
a BSD
environment. Similar to QNX One Disk demo system (includes
frames-capable browser!).

Ken Hansen
khansen@njcc.com

John-Mark Gurney wrote:

<snip>

> for $450 you could get a 8x cdrom, 32megs ram, 4meg video card (s3 virge
> based), k5/133, keyboard, mouse...  add $200 to $1000 for a monitor and
> you have a nice xterminal... :)
> 
> --
>   John-Mark Gurney                          Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954
>   Cu Networking                                   P.O. Box 5693, 97405
> 
>   Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 08:09:48 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: Calin Andrian <calin@ibd.dbio.ro>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: APC BackUPS driver 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:45:10 +1030."
             <199801211515.BAA00434@word.smith.net.au> 
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> Er, if I were you I would look at where cpu_shutdown() is called; this is 
> where the APM code cuts the power.

Damn, that should have been cpu_power_down(), and your later patches 
show you were thinking in a slightly more sophisticated direction.

If you get a few testers happy with your code, pester me to get it 
committed.  Make sure you document the interface though.  8)


-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 08:33:54 1998
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From: Calin Andrian <calin@ibd.dbio.ro>
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Subject: Re: APC BackUPS driver 
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Mike Smith wrote:

> > Er, if I were you I would look at where cpu_shutdown() is called; this is 
> > where the APM code cuts the power.
> 
> Damn, that should have been cpu_power_down(), and your later patches 
> show you were thinking in a slightly more sophisticated direction.
> 
> If you get a few testers happy with your code, pester me to get it 
> committed.  Make sure you document the interface though.  8)

Sorry, I got your message too late. Anyhow, I looked for cpu_shutdown()
and I can't find it. Maybe I'm out of sync. We have here 2.2.5 and
we rely on the machine. I only have the 2.2.5 sources and I am too new
too FreeBSD to play with ever-changing 3.0.
I could rebuild it but I don't know where else to start from.

Thanks,
Calin



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 08:55:03 1998
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From: Raul Zighelboim <mango@staff.communique.net>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: RE: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:54:00 -0600
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How about less DOS support, and more networking support (as in fxp0) and
then loading tcpdump in the floppy.  That would make a nice portable
network troobleshooting floppy!

==================================================
Raul Zighelboim         mango@staff.communique.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Ken Hansen [SMTP:khansen@njcc.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, January 20, 1998 9:29 AM
> To:	John-Mark Gurney
> Cc:	Amancio Hasty; Andrzej Bialecki; Jonathan Mini;
> freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject:	Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
> 
> Hello,
> 	FYI - I just put together a system w/K5/133, 16 Meg, floppy & 2
> Meg
> Video
> case, keyboard & mouse (all new) for $225, add a CD-ROM for $50, 16
> Meg
> more
> RAM for $40, and you're at $315. Throw in a network card, $50 (for a
> good DEC
> based one) and you're at $365. There is room for an HD in that price
> (but I 
> had an 850 Meg on the shelf, along with a CD-ROM & RAM).
> 
> 	I like the one-floppy OS for a simple use - walking up to any PC
> w/modem,
> reboot, and I can call my home network and do LOTS of text-based work
> in
> a BSD
> environment. Similar to QNX One Disk demo system (includes
> frames-capable browser!).
> 
> Ken Hansen
> khansen@njcc.com
> 
> John-Mark Gurney wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > for $450 you could get a 8x cdrom, 32megs ram, 4meg video card (s3
> virge
> > based), k5/133, keyboard, mouse...  add $200 to $1000 for a monitor
> and
> > you have a nice xterminal... :)
> > 
> > --
> >   John-Mark Gurney                          Modem/FAX: +1 541 683
> 6954
> >   Cu Networking                                   P.O. Box 5693,
> 97405
> > 
> >   Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run
> FreeBSD

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 09:10:51 1998
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To: Pedro A M Vazquez <vazquez@IQM.Unicamp.BR>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: wfd/zip ATAPI
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:11:30 -0200."
             <199801191611.OAA11884@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> 
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> Mike
> 	This is the output from a verbose boot/probe:
> atapi0.1 at 0x1f0: attach called
> wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): <IOMEGA  ZIP 100       ATAPI/23.D>, removable, intr, iordis

Looks basically the same as the one I have, yup.  It probes OK.

> it seems to follow most atapi commands, doesn't it?

It certainly understands MODE_SENSE.

> When it hangs it stops to work just after this:
> 
> atapi0.1: start
> atapi0.1: intr ireason=0x1, len=64000, status=58<ready,opdone,drq>, error=0
> atapi0.1: send cmd WRITE_BIG 2a-0-0-0-0-10-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0
> atapi0.1: intr ireason=0x0, len=1536, status=58<ready,opdone,drq>, error=0
> atapi0.1: intr ireason=0x3, len=1536, status=50<ready,opdone>, error=0 
> atapi0.1: req cb 28-0-0-0-0-30-0-0-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 len=4096
> atapi0.1: start
> atapi0.1: intr ireason=0x1, len=4096, status=58<ready,opdone,drq>, error=0
> 
> I've no logs after this point but on the console it goes to
> a series of req cb with size 64 and then stops.

This is very similar to what I see.  I found I got better error 
messages by turning off multi-sector etc. modes.

The drive appears to wedge up; I get one error register value with a 
sense code of 0xd (which is undefined), and then it stops taking 
commands.

Is it possible that the drive doesn't handle the WRITE-10 command 
well?
I don't know why it's called WRITE_BIG, given the alternative is WRITE-12.

The SFF-8020i document implies that READ-10 is obsolete and that 
READ-12 should be used...

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 09:30:07 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199801211604.RAA29399@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: wfd/zip ATAPI
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:04:49 +0100 (MET)
Cc: vazquez@IQM.Unicamp.BR, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > atapi0.1: start
> > atapi0.1: intr ireason=0x1, len=64000, status=58<ready,opdone,drq>, error=0
...
> > atapi0.1: intr ireason=0x1, len=4096, status=58<ready,opdone,drq>, error=0
> > 
> > I've no logs after this point but on the console it goes to
> > a series of req cb with size 64 and then stops.
> 
> This is very similar to what I see.  I found I got better error 
> messages by turning off multi-sector etc. modes.
> 
> The drive appears to wedge up; I get one error register value with a 
> sense code of 0xd (which is undefined), and then it stops taking 
> commands.

wouldn't this be a good opportunity to look at our atapi
implementation(*) and see if someone can add at least a watchdog
functionality such as the one (wdtimeout() in wd.c) which is present
for the ordinary IDE drives ?

When I worked on reading audio etc. from CDs, I was hitting this
problem very frequently: the CD drive would hang at some point, locking
the bus and there was no cure but reset.

I am afraid I don't have sufficient knowledge to _design_ this in a
proper way. Maybe I could hack something but it is not straightforward
since I am not sure how to get a reference from the atapi unit back to
the associated controller.

> The SFF-8020i document implies that READ-10 is obsolete and that 
> READ-12 should be used...

given that a lot of hardware is also obsolete it does not sound so bad
to use matching commands :)

	cheers
	luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 10:00:47 1998
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From: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>
To: Raul Zighelboim <mango@staff.communique.net>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: RE: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Raul Zighelboim wrote:

> 
> How about less DOS support, and more networking support (as in fxp0) and
> then loading tcpdump in the floppy.  That would make a nice portable
> network troobleshooting floppy!

I knew it! :-)))

That's why I uploaded the set of scripts to make your own version. I knew
that with so small a system everyone would want to add something he
thought to be indispensable...

In a day or so I'll upload the bug-fix'ed scripts - it seems that I forgot
to include some patches..

Andrzej Bialecki

---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------
abial@warman.org.pl  | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") }
Research & Academic  | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out."
Network in Poland    | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion.
---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 10:35:56 1998
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You could always make it a 1720K floppy and have another 300K to fill up.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 12:46:25 1998
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Still more questions. I'm a bottomless pit of them. :-)

Can I make multiple uiomove()'s? Or, more to the point (as I should have
done, anyway :), I'm using a circular buffer, and this means some read()'s
or write()'s may only be completed up to the size requested by making two
consecutive uiomove()'s. How can I do this? Does uiomove()'s update uio
structure, should I do it myself, or what?

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 12:55:00 1998
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From: Simon Shapiro <shimon@simon-shapiro.org>
To: Calin Andrian <calin@ibd.dbio.ro>
Subject: Re: APC BackUPS driver
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On 21-Jan-98 Calin Andrian wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Bruce M. Walter wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I have a DPT SCSI RAID controller here whose driver uses
>> at_shutdown/POSTSYNC to flush it's (enormous!) internal disk buffers.
>> When the power goes off during this it insures lost data.  I didn't get
>> bit by this with your code (I did it all by myself ;) but just wanted to
>> warn you in case you wanted to put a note in your tarball.
>> 
>> I have a solution which works in all cases and supports any cable
>> configuration, but requires a kernel patch :(  I've been looking for a
>> way
>> around this and will let you know if I find one.  Keep up the good work.
> 
> I didn't think there could be any real trouble. I looked through the
> standard kernel sources and didn't find any critical devices wanting to
> do
> anything at shutdown. On the other hand, I gave it a moment's thought
> about patching kern_shutdown.c but quit really quick. Now that you opened
> my eyes I think that maybe it's time to add another option (and list of
> routines - or only ONE routine) to at_shutdown. Something like
> at_shutdown(func, arg, SHUTDOWN_FOR_REAL) ment specifically for shutting
> down power.

I think you need to be a bit more careful than that.  You should not force
a shutdown before ALL drivers have completed their at_shutdown calls.
This is essential.  The purpose of a UPS is to extend the system's life, to
avoid power failure disasters.

While you are looking around that code, try to hunt down this problem:

Sometimes, after at_shutdown is called, the rebooting code actually tries
to flush buffers.  At this point, the DPT has already shutdown.

> 
> I'll look into it.
> 
> I'd like to work on it now that I already started this UPS matter.
> 
> Later,
> 
> Calin
> 
> 

----------


Sincerely Yours, 

Simon Shapiro
Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG                      Voice:   503.799.2313

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 13:03:19 1998
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To: Lars Koeller <Lars.Koeller@HRZ.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Fastvid module available! 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:12:31 +0100."
             <199801211012.AA277897551@pollux.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> 
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Howdy,

I just don't have that much time over here;perhaps, another hacker
can pick up your work.

fastvid can increase your video display thruput from 20MB/sec to 90MB/sec.

The fastvid lkm project should be a very nice short project. Any takers ?? 


	TIA
	Amancio


	


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 13:16:22 1998
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From: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@gns.com.br>
Message-Id: <199801212104.TAA00624@daniel.sobral>
Subject: Timeout(9)
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:04:51 -0200 (EDT)
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After given a careful read of the man page, I was left with a doubt.
When it is stated that timeout() is protected from reentrancy, does
that means no other timed out function will be called, or that the
_same_ function won't be called twice?

-- 
Daniel C. Sobral		  (8-DCS)
dcs@gns.com.br

For those who like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing they like.
		-- Abraham Lincoln

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 14:07:35 1998
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote:

> Since we are now blessed with fast ide cdroms , it would be really
> cool to have a CDROM version of picoBSD . The space is nice however,
> I am thinking that we can boot a lot faster from a CD ...

Not to mention the rather attractive security and reliability implications
of running off of a read-only medium.


 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems." 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 14:16:35 1998
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From: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@gns.com.br>
Message-Id: <199801212216.UAA01172@daniel.sobral>
Subject: splsoft*()
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:16:00 -0200 (EDT)
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Can someone explain to me where splsoftclock and splsofttty are
supposed to be used?

-- 
Daniel C. Sobral		  (8-DCS)
dcs@gns.com.br

QOTD:
	"If you keep an open mind people will throw a lot of garbage in it."

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 14:30:51 1998
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Subject: Re: bsd.port.mk is broken
From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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 * When Satoshi sent the patches out for everyone to review before
 * committing them, it occurred to me to suggest that the check be
 * made less forcefully, perhaps only when the port being built
 * actually uses Tcl, and I accept the blame for not suggesting
 * this,

How do you implement this though?  grep for the string "tcl" in
*_DEPENDS?

 * 	 but the simple fact is that the Tcl ports are not expected
 * to know that the Tcl they find in /usr[/local]/include cannot be
 * used.

That and the number of ports submissions (and in some case commits)
from people who have remnants of old tcl in their system.

Anyway, here's an updated version, request for comments please!

Check for:

 /usr/include/tcl.h /usr/lib/libtcl??.so.*.*

tell users to:

 delete the above two
 if they don't want system tcl, rm -rf /usr/{include,libdata}/tcl/*,
    /usr/{lib,bin}/*tcl*, /usr/share/man/*n/* and define NOTCL in
    /etc/make.conf
 run ldconfig -R

(I believe system tcl installs libtcl.so.*.* now.)

By the way, does anyone know how to do a check for a file existence
(".if exists(foofile)") with a wildcard in make?  Or do I need to list
all the possibilties (libtcl.so.75.0, libtcl.so.7.5, libtcl75.so.1.0,
etc.)?

Satoshi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 14:30:54 1998
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From: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@gns.com.br>
Message-Id: <199801212216.UAA01172@daniel.sobral>
Subject: splsoft*()
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:16:00 -0200 (EDT)
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Can someone explain to me where splsoftclock and splsofttty are
supposed to be used?

-- 
Daniel C. Sobral		  (8-DCS)
dcs@gns.com.br

QOTD:
	"If you keep an open mind people will throw a lot of garbage in it."

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 14:37:20 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801212236.PAA09564@usr09.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Locking on disk slice I/O--yes, no or how?
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:36:44 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980121185627.21744@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 21, 98 06:56:27 pm
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> I'm currently trying to perform low-level I/O to disk slices in a
> driver.  I've read section 9 of the manual, which tells me that all
> reads and writes should be protected with a VOP_LOCK/VOP_UNLOCK pair.
> I've tried this, and get a panic: "lockmgr: locking against myself"

Yick.  Someone's trying to use the lockmgr for finer grained SMP
locking.  That'll never work... it must have snuck in when I wasn't
looking.


> The following code leads to a panic:
> 
>     VOP_LOCK (devvp, LK_EXCLUSIVE, curproc);		    /* lock the vnode */
>     error = VOP_WRITE (devvp, &uio, IO_NODELOCKED, FSCRED); /* write the header */
>     VOP_UNLOCK (devvp, 0, curproc);			    /* and unlock it again */

In general, you are trying to do I/O in a driver, which holds another
lock.  The panic is an artifact of someone using the lockmgr as if
it actually worked the way you'd expect an SMP lock manager to work.

As you've discovered, it doesn't.

The panic is because you are attempting to obtain the lock while you
hold a mutually exclusive lock at the same time.

Technically, I believe you should be able to do file I/O from a
device not involved in file I/O.  Practically, the VFS is not
really organized correctly to allow you to do this (or a lot of
other things.

Since you already hold a mutually exclusive lock, you technically
don't need to do the VOP_LOCK to protect the vnode from reentry
(this assumes your UIO is in sysspace, not userspace, so the
uiomove won't cause paging; you can't page in the kernel except
in rare circumstances, and if you went to sleep without really
holding the lock, it would be bad.


> Looking at the stack frame for vop_stdlock, it looks as if I'm trying
> to use my devvp->v_data as lock data to lock against my own vnode.  I
> can't make sense of this (except that, under these circumstances, I
> can understand the panic).  I have a number of questions:
> 
> 1.  What is the lock manager trying to do here?  What's the content of
>     devvp->v_data?

It's a pointer to the in core per FS data.  Given the contents of
the structure you showed, it's a pointer to an FFS inode, so you are
actually calling ufs_lock in ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c.

If the vnodes were handled differently, there wouldn't be a VOP_LOCK,
per se, in each FS implementation.  But alas, they are not.

Unfortunately, the lockmgr() code is called to apply the lock onto
a lock list pointer that is in the in-core inode; look at the UFS
code for details (yes, I know that spec_lock doesn't do anything;
you are not using the descriptor vector from miscfs/specfs/spec_vnops.c
linke you think -- you are using the one in ufs/ffs/ffs_vnops.c).


> 2.  Why do I need to lock at all?  According to the 4.4BSD book, it's
>     "advisory", and then only for directory searches and such.

You need to lock in case you are doing something to the vnode that
causes you to sleep waiting for resources (pages, etc.), and while you
are asleep, someone else wants to come in and do something to the same
vnode while you are in the middle of what you are doing.

The panic occurs because your curproc is the process holding the other
lock you are attempting to assert against, and the IN_RECURSE flag
is not set (you can't set it because you can't get at the inode).
That code is all a kludge anyway, since it should *always* be a counting
lock, not just sometimes.  Terrible implementation, there...

> 3.  Are the parameters correct?  It looks as if I shouldn't specify
>     curproc in the calls, but I can't find any documentation that
>     tells me what to put there, nor indeed what use the whole thing
>     is.

"According to the source code, this is correct behaviour".

Since your device is operating on behalf of a process, you should
provide that process to the lock.

In reality, it's a kludge and a half to use the lockmgr the way it
is being used by the VOP_LOCK right now; the lockmgr code is for
advisory locking, and overloading it with another VOP entry point
is just asking for exactly this type of collision, even when you
aren't doing something strange, like I/O from a driver.

You can:

	cd /sys/kern
	grep VOP_LOCK * | more

But I suspect you won't find one not for the current process (which
is used to manufacture the lock collision domain).


> 4.  This device is /dev/rsd1e.  Should I even be calling
>     ufs_vnoperatespec?

Probably not.  Probably you should be calling bwrite(); this is
highly dependent on what exactly your driver is, though.  You can
see that tty_tty.c (the tty driver) calls VOP_WRITE.  It really
depends on if your device is a real device or a pseudo-device, and
whether you got into the driver through a system call or as the
result of an interrupt.  If you got in via an interrupt, you should
probably not be calling VOP_WRITE.

But if you call VOP_WRITE, then it's going to go through the FFS
(and therefore the UFS common code).


> 5.  Am I doing anything else obviously wrong?

Well, there is a lot of kernel code in this area that is obviously
wrong.  Probably, if you are going to call VOP_WRITE, then you
should call LEASE_CHECK to notify NFS, or any additional user
space opportunistic locking interface that you're doing something;
many of the places in the kernel where people call VOP_WRITE or
VOP_READ directly actually fail to call this, though.  This
doesn't really apply to things that can't be exported, though,
so if there's no chance you will be given a vp for a file, then
it's not a problem.  If you are going to operate on general devices,
though, you may find that vnconfig'ed devices might qualify.  The
Samba maintainer has expressed an interest in a user space
interface to an opportunistic locking API -- it makes sense,
given that both Samba and NFS support opportunistic locking, but
neither gets notified of the others lock breaks (NFS calls this
lease breaking).  Technically, the code in kern/kern_ktrace.c is
bad sample code for calling VOP_WRITE, as is the code in tty_tty.c,
as is the code in vn_rdwr() in vfs_vnops.c, though vn_write is OK.
Luckily, this is the code the system calls use.  Unluckily, it's
in a struct fileops, from when the Heideman code was pounded in
4.4; this is a legacy for the pipe and socket code which weren't
modernized when everything else was.

I'd really suggest examining what you are doing to see if the
way you are doing it is the right way.  Then look at the code
in the functions starting with vn_ in kern/vfs_vnops.c; at
least that code does the lease checking, etc..  You might even
want to be calling vn_write instead of VOP_WRITE; it depends
again on how you obtained your vnode.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 14:50:32 1998
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From: "Justin T. Gibbs" <gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com>
Message-Id: <199801212247.PAA08995@narnia.plutotech.com>
To: "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@gns.com.br>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Timeout(9)
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In article <199801212104.TAA00624@daniel.sobral> you wrote:
> After given a careful read of the man page, I was left with a doubt.
> When it is stated that timeout() is protected from reentrancy, does
> that means no other timed out function will be called, or that the
> _same_ function won't be called twice?

No timeout handler will be entered while you are in a timeout handler.
These semantics might be relaxed to only prevent per handler re-entrancy
in some future SMP release though.

> -- 
> Daniel C. Sobral		  (8-DCS)
> dcs@gns.com.br
> 
> For those who like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing they like.
> 		-- Abraham Lincoln


--
Justin

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 15:06:05 1998
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Subject: Re: Locking on disk slice I/O--yes, no or how?
In-Reply-To: <199801212236.PAA09564@usr09.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 21, 98 10:36:44 pm"
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:04:58 -0500 (EST)
Cc: grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Terry Lambert said:
> > I'm currently trying to perform low-level I/O to disk slices in a
> > driver.  I've read section 9 of the manual, which tells me that all
> > reads and writes should be protected with a VOP_LOCK/VOP_UNLOCK pair.
> > I've tried this, and get a panic: "lockmgr: locking against myself"
> 
> Yick.  Someone's trying to use the lockmgr for finer grained SMP
> locking.  That'll never work... it must have snuck in when I wasn't
> looking.
> 
Terry,
	I think that your answer is orthogonal to the question asked.  Also,
lockmgr is perfect (except for being slightly high overhead) for the purpose
that it is being used.  I am moving towards a TSM scheme for both better
UP and SMP performance.

When my work settles down, I will try to help with some of the questions that
have come across my mailbox in the last week or so.

-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 15:30:03 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801212329.QAA12160@usr09.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Locking on disk slice I/O--yes, no or how?
To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:29:29 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > > I'm currently trying to perform low-level I/O to disk slices in a
> > > driver.  I've read section 9 of the manual, which tells me that all
> > > reads and writes should be protected with a VOP_LOCK/VOP_UNLOCK pair.
> > > I've tried this, and get a panic: "lockmgr: locking against myself"
> > 
> > Yick.  Someone's trying to use the lockmgr for finer grained SMP
> > locking.  That'll never work... it must have snuck in when I wasn't
> > looking.
>
> Terry,
> 	I think that your answer is orthogonal to the question asked.  Also,
> lockmgr is perfect (except for being slightly high overhead) for the purpose
> that it is being used.  I am moving towards a TSM scheme for both better
> UP and SMP performance.
> 
> When my work settles down, I will try to help with some of the questions that
> have come across my mailbox in the last week or so.

He can't call VOP_LOCK because he's in the kernel, and there's a
different lock asserted because of the way he got there.

Either you're supposed to call VOP_LOCK to protect the vnode from being
reentered, or you're not, right?


IMO, he shouldn't be getting the panic, and it should work, unless
he's trying to call the thing at interrupt time from the driver for
the device he's attempting to write to.

The panic occurs because, in an attempt to get finer grained locking,
the lock space was normalized against deadlocks by unifying it instead
of adding hierarchy.



Actually, I'd be interested in using opportunity locking with an
intention mode hierarchical lock manager.  We were able to do
~20,000 transactions a second using this as the lock manager in
the NetWare for UNIX product, technically a hosted OS.

Only if you have an intention collision would you resort to a TSM
call to resolve the collision.  For the most part, it's non-blocking.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 15:34:41 1998
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Message-Id: <199801212301.QAA10692@usr09.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Wide characters on tcp connections
To: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:01:35 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, louie@TransSys.COM,
        daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980121103354.EB02816@mars.hsc.fr> from "Pierre Beyssac" at Jan 21, 98 10:33:54 am
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> [ UTF-8 ]
> > It will take up to 3 bytes to resync, since it can take up to 5
> > bytes to represent a single 16 bit value.
> 
> I assume you mean 32 bit? I think (don't have the draft handy) that's
> a little more complicated than that, because there if I remember
> correctly there are "collisions" between prefix codes and multibyte
> encodings. But that's the idea.

Yes, you're right; a UCS-4 value, not a UCS-2 value.  UCS-2 values
will take 1-2 to resync.

0x00000000 - 0x0000007F:
0xxxxxxx

0x00000080 - 0x000007FF:
110xxxxx 10xxxxxx

0x00000800 - 0x0000FFFF:
1110xxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx

0x00010000 - 0x001FFFFF:
11110xxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx

0x00200000 - 0x03FFFFFF:
111110xx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx

0x04000000 - 0x7FFFFFFF:
1111110x 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx

> > This assumes you are willing to push an arbitrary number of bytes
> > to get a 16 bit value to the other end of the pipe, and that you are
> > willing to take the computational overhead of the conversion,
> 
> Yes, but you have to take a computational overhead anyway, even
> with fixed width characters, if you are to convert to network
> byte order.

Which is why you send in host byte order; then the target machine
gets the data, if it's not the same byteorder as you, then it takes
the hit.  That's why DCE/RPC sends in host order, which may or may
not be net order.

> > and
> > that you are willing to treat your values as a stream instead of
> > an external data representation of a structure (ie: you are willling
> > to give up being able to tell the other end to expect a certain number
> > of bytes in a transaction).
> 
> In the case of a telnet connection or mainly ASCII transfer, this makes
> sense: I certainly don't feel like I'm ready to take a fourfold
> performance loss due to wider characters :-)

It's twofold if you encode as UCS-2 instead of UTF-ing it.  Also,
you don't need to content-transfer encode as UCS-2.  The point is
that you are able to round-trip the data in and out.

The biggest hit will be application data size, and data dictionary
size.

For Chinese/Japanese documents, UTF-8 is asking them to send 1.5
times as much data as they would otherwise.

Personally, I'd prefer that all applications be capable of being
localized, and I'm willing to pay the penalty for it.

You should also remember that storage encoding is not necessarily
ultilization encoding.  You could, for example, UTF-8 data in
the FS, but expose it as UCS-2, or a given locale character set.
Clearly, NFS doesn't support a Unicode namespace; you would need
to round-trip it before exposing it; for example, an NTFS exposed
as an NFS mount.


Of course, if you do this "under the covers", a locale character
set is your best choice, and then you can internally attribute the
file as "stored in XXX locale form".  With a linear 1->2 2->1
conversion, you could still support mmap()'ing in applications,
and applications are supposed to internally use wchar_t.  So an
exposure via mmap() is sort of antithetical to UTF-8 as well.

For FTP... well... "set UTF" comes to mind.  Seems a poor choice
of a "compression algorithm", though.  ;-).


> When putting this in a database system, you obviously don't _have_ to
> use UTF-8 internally, that's purely an implementation issue.
> 
> Now I agree using UTF-8 in RPCs can be difficult, but after all isn't
> the RPC layer supposed to hide exactly these kinds of things from
> the application programmer?

Depends.  What does "MAXPATHLEN" mean?  8-) 8-).

> I was just pointing out that it would be silly to reinvent the wheel
> if that's to come up with something similar to UTF-8.

Well, it would certainly be silly to come up with something similar
to UTF-8... for example, UTF-8.  ;-).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 15:40:38 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:30:41 -0600 (CST)
From: Erik E Rantapaa <rantapaa@uswest.net>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: syslogd, gethostby*() and signals
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Just recently I've encountered several incidents where syslogd is dying 
right after it re-initializes due to a HUP signal.  The core file 
suggests syslogd was in a gethostbyaddr() call in the cvthname()
subroutine at the time of the signal.

The HUP signal handler makes gethostbyname() calls.  Is this
a potential problem?

I'm running 2.2.5-RELEASE .

--
Erik Rantapaa
rantapaa@uswest.net


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 15:41:25 1998
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: uiomove()
To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:39:37 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <83256593.007383CB.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> from "daniel_sobral@voga.com.br" at Jan 21, 98 06:06:08 pm
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In some mail from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, sie said:
> 
> 
> Still more questions. I'm a bottomless pit of them. :-)
> 
> Can I make multiple uiomove()'s? Or, more to the point (as I should have
> done, anyway :), I'm using a circular buffer, and this means some read()'s
> or write()'s may only be completed up to the size requested by making two
> consecutive uiomove()'s. How can I do this? Does uiomove()'s update uio
> structure, should I do it myself, or what?

uiomove() may be called multiple times - it updates the uio struct itself.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 15:55:40 1998
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Message-ID: <19980122102409.39650@lemis.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:24:09 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Why enable routed by default?
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I note that the default setting for FreeBSD installations (as of
2.2.5) is still to start routed.  Considering that the vast majority
of users are on leaf nodes with a single connect to the Net, this
doesn't make sense, and it frequently causes problems with PPP
dialups.  Can't we change the default to not starting the daemon?

Greg


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 16:00:31 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:00:22 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: egcs and exceptions
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I just built egcs in eager anticipation of working exceptions. 
No dice (just an Abort Trap).  Is this something that only works
on -current? (I'm running 2.2.5)

-john


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 16:05:39 1998
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From: Timothy Moore <moore@WOLFENET.com>
To: jfieber@indiana.edu
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	<Pine.BSF.3.96.980121185653.8321B-100000@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu>
	(message from John Fieber on Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:00:22 -0500 (EST))
Subject: Re: egcs and exceptions
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   Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:00:22 -0500 (EST)
   From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>

   I just built egcs in eager anticipation of working exceptions. 
   No dice (just an Abort Trap).  Is this something that only works
   on -current? (I'm running 2.2.5)

   -john

It doesn't seem to work in -current either, for me.  I need to build
an elf-capabile gdb to debug this.

Was there any further word on a elf-shared-library gdb?  This must
exist for linux, no?

Tim

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 16:14:01 1998
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From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
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Subject: Re: Locking on disk slice I/O--yes, no or how?
In-Reply-To: <199801212329.QAA12160@usr09.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 21, 98 11:29:29 pm"
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:13:34 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, tlambert@primenet.com, grog@lemis.com,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Terry Lambert said:
> > > > I'm currently trying to perform low-level I/O to disk slices in a
> > > > driver.  I've read section 9 of the manual, which tells me that all
> > > > reads and writes should be protected with a VOP_LOCK/VOP_UNLOCK pair.
> > > > I've tried this, and get a panic: "lockmgr: locking against myself"
> > > 
> > > Yick.  Someone's trying to use the lockmgr for finer grained SMP
> > > locking.  That'll never work... it must have snuck in when I wasn't
> > > looking.
> >
> > Terry,
> > 	I think that your answer is orthogonal to the question asked.  Also,
> > lockmgr is perfect (except for being slightly high overhead) for the purpose
> > that it is being used.  I am moving towards a TSM scheme for both better
> > UP and SMP performance.
> > 
> > When my work settles down, I will try to help with some of the questions that
> > have come across my mailbox in the last week or so.
> 
> He can't call VOP_LOCK because he's in the kernel, and there's a
> different lock asserted because of the way he got there.
>
Yes he can call VOP_LOCK, if done properly.

> 
> Either you're supposed to call VOP_LOCK to protect the vnode from being
> reentered, or you're not, right?
> 
Yes...  

> 
> IMO, he shouldn't be getting the panic, and it should work, unless
> he's trying to call the thing at interrupt time from the driver for
> the device he's attempting to write to.
> 
Yes.

>
> The panic occurs because, in an attempt to get finer grained locking,
> the lock space was normalized against deadlocks by unifying it instead
> of adding hierarchy.
> 
Not necessarily.

I don't have time to properly answer the questions.

-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 16:37:46 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:33:36 -0500
To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>, FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
From: "Jordyn A. Buchanan" <jordyn@bestweb.net>
Subject: Re: Why enable routed by default?
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At 10:24 AM +1030 1/22/98, Greg Lehey wrote:
>I note that the default setting for FreeBSD installations (as of
>2.2.5) is still to start routed.  Considering that the vast majority
>of users are on leaf nodes with a single connect to the Net, this
>doesn't make sense, and it frequently causes problems with PPP
>dialups.  Can't we change the default to not starting the daemon?

This would be a good idea.  Even on systems that are not leaf nodes, I
think the demand for RIP is becoming increasingly small in the brave new
world of classless routing.  (Yeah yeah, there's RIPv2, but that fails to
correct many of the other deficiencies of RIP).  Having something like this
on by default can also add a bit of complication to your life when you are
expecting only your routers to be exchanging RIP updates and suddenly your
hosts start getting involved as well...

Jordyn

|----------------------------------------------------------------|
|Jordyn A. Buchanan                    mailto:jordyn@bestweb.net |
|Bestweb Corporation                      http://www.bestweb.net |
|Senior System Administrator                     +1.914.271.4500 |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 16:40:05 1998
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To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
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Subject: Re: Why enable routed by default? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:24:09 +1030."
             <19980122102409.39650@lemis.com> 
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> I note that the default setting for FreeBSD installations (as of
> 2.2.5) is still to start routed.  Considering that the vast majority
> of users are on leaf nodes with a single connect to the Net, this
> doesn't make sense, and it frequently causes problems with PPP
> dialups.  Can't we change the default to not starting the daemon?

I don't actually believe that it is.  rc.conf in the source tree has 
routed enabled, but sysconfig defaults it to off.

(At least, none of the ca. 2.2.5 systems we have installed have routed 
running, and we don't turn it off explicitly.)
-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 16:50:03 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:48:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu>
To: Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>
cc: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>, Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>,
        Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking 
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Snob Art Genre wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> 
> > Since we are now blessed with fast ide cdroms , it would be really
> > cool to have a CDROM version of picoBSD . The space is nice however,
> > I am thinking that we can boot a lot faster from a CD ...
> 
> Not to mention the rather attractive security and reliability implications
> of running off of a read-only medium.
> 
> 
>  Ben
> 

Can FreeBSD run from read-only media?  Aren't there some files in /etc
that need to be writable at run-time?

Tom



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 16:52:14 1998
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Subject: Re: Why enable routed by default?
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> X-Sender: jordyn@pop.bestweb.net
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> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:33:36 -0500
> From: "Jordyn A. Buchanan" <jordyn@bestweb.net>
> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG

> At 10:24 AM +1030 1/22/98, Greg Lehey wrote:
...
> >Can't we change the default to not starting the [routed] daemon?
> 
> This would be a good idea.  Even on systems that are not leaf nodes, I
> think the demand for RIP is becoming increasingly small in the brave new
> world of classless routing.  (Yeah yeah, there's RIPv2, but that fails to
> correct many of the other deficiencies of RIP).  Having something like this
> on by default can also add a bit of complication to your life when you are
> expecting only your routers to be exchanging RIP updates and suddenly your
> hosts start getting involved as well...
...

Default of "routed" disabled sounds good here. Just wanted to say that
we use a lot of RFC 1918 on our intranet, one Class C per collision
domain. This has breathed new life into RIP, which is making a
comeback after massive purge a year or so ago when LAN was subnetted
to kingdom come.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 16:59:39 1998
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To: Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu>
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        Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>, Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>,
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:48:06 -0800."
             <Pine.BSF.3.96.980121164621.14765B-100000@dale.salk.edu> 
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> > Not to mention the rather attractive security and reliability implications
> > of running off of a read-only medium.
> 
> Can FreeBSD run from read-only media?  Aren't there some files in /etc
> that need to be writable at run-time?

I think it's pretty close.  You need a writable /var & /tmp, but apart 
from /etc/motd there doesn't appear to be anything else.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 17:03:53 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:02:14 +0900 (JST)
From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Locking on disk slice I/O--yes, no or how?
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Terry Lambert wrote:

> Only if you have an intention collision would you resort to a TSM
> call to resolve the collision.  For the most part, it's non-blocking.

TSM doesn't necessarily mean it's non-blocking.  It just means that a
vnode you're about to modify won't suddenly become a mbuf.  Intent locking
seems similar in this respect.  Maybe I'm being a smartass, but since John
said TSM instead of NBS it leaves it open to speculation a wee bit.

Things sure are getting interesting in current!

Regards,


Mike
--
michaelh@cet.co.jp                                http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan              Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 17:07:13 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:57:53 -0800 (PST)
From: "Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI" <blkirk@float.eli.net>
To: Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu>
cc: Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>,
        Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>,
        Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>, Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>,
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking 
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   Couldn't this be overcome by including DOS FS support and using some
space out of C:\TEMP .  Swapfiles could be accomplished in the sameway
with vnode support.  (Leo's getting Largerrrr!)
--Ben Kirkpatrick

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Tom Bartol wrote:
> 
> Can FreeBSD run from read-only media?  Aren't there some files in /etc
> that need to be writable at run-time?
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 17:11:08 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:37:08 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu>, Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>,
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
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On Thu, Jan 22, 1998 at 11:20:24AM +1030, Mike Smith wrote:
>>> Not to mention the rather attractive security and reliability implications
>>> of running off of a read-only medium.
>>
>> Can FreeBSD run from read-only media?  Aren't there some files in /etc
>> that need to be writable at run-time?
>
> I think it's pretty close.  You need a writable /var & /tmp, but apart
> from /etc/motd there doesn't appear to be anything else.

You can even get away without a writeable /var if you're prepared to
put up with some minor annoyances.  I run my test machine with a
read-only /usr to speed up reboots after panics.

Of course, there's no reason why you shouldn't use mfs for those odds
and ends which need to be writeable.

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 17:11:12 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801220110.SAA17398@usr09.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Locking on disk slice I/O--yes, no or how?
To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:10:54 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SV4.3.95.980122095543.5155A-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp> from "Michael Hancock" at Jan 22, 98 10:02:14 am
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> > Only if you have an intention collision would you resort to a TSM
> > call to resolve the collision.  For the most part, it's non-blocking.
> 
> TSM doesn't necessarily mean it's non-blocking.  It just means that a
> vnode you're about to modify won't suddenly become a mbuf.  Intent locking
> seems similar in this respect.  Maybe I'm being a smartass, but since John
> said TSM instead of NBS it leaves it open to speculation a wee bit.
> 
> Things sure are getting interesting in current!

I was thinking of Test-and-set/Semaphore/Mutex.  You would use
non-blocking intention modes, and then block on a T, S, or M if
there were a conflicting intention.

I guess he could have been talking about "Type Specific Memory",
though... but in the context of locking?  8-).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 17:19:42 1998
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Subject: Re: Locking on disk slice I/O--yes, no or how?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SV4.3.95.980122095543.5155A-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp> from Michael Hancock at "Jan 22, 98 10:02:14 am"
To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:19:07 -0500 (EST)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "John S. Dyson" <dyson@FreeBSD.ORG>
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Michael Hancock said:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Terry Lambert wrote:
> 
> > Only if you have an intention collision would you resort to a TSM
> > call to resolve the collision.  For the most part, it's non-blocking.
> 
> TSM doesn't necessarily mean it's non-blocking.  It just means that a
> vnode you're about to modify won't suddenly become a mbuf.  Intent locking
> seems similar in this respect.  Maybe I'm being a smartass, but since John
> said TSM instead of NBS it leaves it open to speculation a wee bit.
> 
> Things sure are getting interesting in current!
> 
The use of TSM and generation counters will mostly be to verify the state of
queues and the associated datastructures during traversal.  This will allow
us to keep from restarting at the beginning after potentially blocking
operations.  There will be other advantages of the usage of TSM, and
perhaps we'll be able to learn to avoid blocking in certain circumstances.
It just seems that it is a good idea to use TSM for various reasons.  TSM
is yet another tool in our "toolkit."

TSM will also allow us to improve the performance of various kernel operations,
so that we don't have to fully re-initialize data structures every time that
we use them.

I am also looking at pushing certain kernel services into kernel threads
(AIO is already there), but those things are off into the future (probably
3.1+ timeframe.)

-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 17:20:00 1998
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Subject: Re: Locking on disk slice I/O--yes, no or how?
In-Reply-To: <199801220110.SAA17398@usr09.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 22, 98 01:10:54 am"
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:19:31 -0500 (EST)
Cc: michaelh@cet.co.jp, tlambert@primenet.com, grog@lemis.com,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "John S. Dyson" <dyson@FreeBSD.ORG>
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Terry Lambert said:
> 
> I guess he could have been talking about "Type Specific Memory",
> though... but in the context of locking?  8-).
> 

Type Stable Memory.

-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 17:26:09 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:25:16 -0800
From: Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>
To: "Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI" <blkirk@float.eli.net>
Cc: Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu>, Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>,
        Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>,
        Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>, Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
Reply-To: Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>
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Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI <blkirk@float.eli.net> stands accused of saying:
>    Couldn't this be overcome by including DOS FS support and using some
> space out of C:\TEMP .  Swapfiles could be accomplished in the sameway
> with vnode support.  (Leo's getting Largerrrr!)

  Two problems : you loose the advantages of a read-only setup if you use a
hard drive :) And Secondly, msdosfs doesn't have permissions. 

  Not to mention that if it did, you could still reboot into DOS and midify
the files. This is not secure. If you want to use HD space, just make a FFS
partition.

-- 
Jonathan Mini 					Ingenious Productions
Software Development				P.O. Box 5693,
						Eugene, Or. 97405

 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five."

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 17:32:44 1998
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
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> Can FreeBSD run from read-only media?  Aren't there some files in /etc
> that need to be writable at run-time?

You are thinking of Solaris/SunOS. FreeBSD can (and in many cases should)
have a read-only /usr and / filesystems. Mount /tmp or /var as MFS or
another filesystem and you're all fine and wonderful. 

  I personally run kernel on one of my crash machines that
NFS mounts / read-only, and mounts an MFS for /var.  (/tmp is a symlink to
/var/tmp) Since my / filesystem also contains the /usr hierarchy (minus
home directories) I have everything available, and crashes and evil file
corruption possibilites from an unstable kernel don't phase me.
  My /etc/rc.local script (of course) builds a new /var filesystem on every
reboot, but it works great.

-- 
Jonathan Mini 					Ingenious Productions
Software Development				P.O. Box 5693,
						Eugene, Or. 97405

 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five."

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 17:41:16 1998
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From: Doug Ambrisko <ambrisko@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199801220131.RAA17554@crab.whistle.com>
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
In-Reply-To: <19980121022935.45924@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "Jan 21, 98 02:29:35 am"
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:31:31 -0800 (PST)
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John-Mark Gurney writes:
| Amancio Hasty scribbled this message on Jan 21:
| > Since we are now blessed with fast ide cdroms , it would be really
| > cool to have a CDROM version of picoBSD . The space is nice however,
| > I am thinking that we can boot a lot faster from a CD ...
| 
| not so much the speed booting, but think of what you could put on
| 650megs of space?  you could do a nice Xserver with that... where you
| grab the xf86 config file off of some anon ftp server or something...
| you would have complete local fonts...

Well speaking of which we are booting FreeBSD of a cdrom with the cd mounted
as the root file-system.  We use this to build manufacturing servers so
I don't have to worry about loading and installing software on our
servers (they are at a different location).  This stuff works a lot 
better in 3.0 as of Dec. 8th.  2.2.5 is broken.  We do use a hard-disk for
var and tmp but we initialize and copy var off the CD since the unionfs 
wasn't work in 2.2.

It's kind of cool watching FreeBSD boot off a CD-ROM and when the CD has
spun down it takes a while to login!

Doug A.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 17:49:08 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: Pedro A M Vazquez <vazquez@IQM.Unicamp.BR>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: wfd/zip ATAPI 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:33:36 +1030."
             <199801211703.DAA00982@word.smith.net.au> 
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:41:51 +0900
From: Satoh Junichi <junichi@astec.co.jp>
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> Is it possible that the drive doesn't handle the WRITE-10 command 
> well?
> I don't know why it's called WRITE_BIG, given the alternative is WRITE-12.

I think WRITE-12 is better.
But, the LS-120 drive didn't work with WRITE-12.
So, I didn't use WRITE-12 on wfd driver.

I'll try to use it again.
---
Junichi

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 18:05:29 1998
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Subject: Re: wfd/zip ATAPI 
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> > Is it possible that the drive doesn't handle the WRITE-10 command 
> > well?
> > I don't know why it's called WRITE_BIG, given the alternative is WRITE-12.
> 
> I think WRITE-12 is better.
> But, the LS-120 drive didn't work with WRITE-12.
> So, I didn't use WRITE-12 on wfd driver.

SFF-8070 is very vague on which of the WRITE family should be used; 
it's only SFF-8020i that has anything to say about the two, and being 
for CDROMs it only talks about reads.

I have been wondering if there isn't some timing or size limitation 
that we're hitting with the Zip; it's hard to be sure what it's really 
unhappy about though.

> I'll try to use it again.

If it didn't work before, it probably won't work now. 8)

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 18:12:28 1998
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        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: wfd/zip ATAPI 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:04:49 BST."
             <199801211604.RAA29399@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> 
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From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> > The drive appears to wedge up; I get one error register value with a 
> > sense code of 0xd (which is undefined), and then it stops taking 
> > commands.
> 
> wouldn't this be a good opportunity to look at our atapi
> implementation(*) and see if someone can add at least a watchdog
> functionality such as the one (wdtimeout() in wd.c) which is present
> for the ordinary IDE drives ?

Doesn't wdtimeout get called for all transactions on the bus?  
Something keeps putting up those "req cb" messages...

> I am afraid I don't have sufficient knowledge to _design_ this in a
> proper way. Maybe I could hack something but it is not straightforward
> since I am not sure how to get a reference from the atapi unit back to
> the associated controller.

Every time I get stuck in this, I think "what we want to do is rewrite 
this", and then I think "hmm, translate CAM SCBs to ATA/ATAPI 
commands", and then I think "when am I going to do this"?

*sigh*

> > The SFF-8020i document implies that READ-10 is obsolete and that 
> > READ-12 should be used...
> 
> given that a lot of hardware is also obsolete it does not sound so bad
> to use matching commands :)

Heh.  Bloody legacy issues.  8(
-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 19:30:19 1998
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From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk <dk@dog.farm.org>
Message-Id: <199801220338.TAA14754@dog.farm.org>
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Why enable routed by default?
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In article <19980122102409.39650@lemis.com> you wrote:
> I note that the default setting for FreeBSD installations (as of
> 2.2.5) is still to start routed.  Considering that the vast majority
> of users are on leaf nodes with a single connect to the Net, this
> doesn't make sense, and it frequently causes problems with PPP
> dialups.  Can't we change the default to not starting the daemon?

perhaps so that your carefully crafted route discovery messages would
set up default route on new FreeBSD hosts for you??  

(or maybe you feed them RIP default as well??)

other than that, there is no reason... oif you use PPP or DHCP on ethernet,
there is no perceivable need for it.

--
quote of the day: `

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 19:46:10 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:22:39 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Locking on disk slice I/O--yes, no or how?
References: <Pine.SV4.3.95.980122095543.5155A-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp> <199801220119.UAA12943@dyson.iquest.net>
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On Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 08:19:07PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote:

> I am also looking at pushing certain kernel services into kernel
> threads (AIO is already there), but those things are off into the
> future (probably 3.1+ timeframe.)

I've tried the archives and my memory and not found any answer: Does
this mean we have a usable API for internal kernel threads?

Does this involve full use of nice-levels, so I can create a thread
that does data-structure optimization and not having it block more
critical operations?

(Context: I'm looking at some advanced firewall optimizations that
will take a lot of CPU to compute, and that it would be nice to use
otherwise idle time for.)

Eivind.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 19:50:54 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: elf and -current
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In case anyone else is still following this thread, according to
ian@cygnus.com, the nm patch was rejected because it breaks POSIX.2
compliance, and doesn't follow the SunOS practice, and there are no plans 
to integrate it into a newer binutils. Perhaps something's broken on
this end then? Hmm.

El hombre mas brillante dijo una vez "Cuidado hay NT". (it's a nerd thing)

- alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 20:02:31 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96
To: Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>
cc: "Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI" <blkirk@float.eli.net>,
        Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu>, Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>,
        Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:25:16 PST."
             <19980121172516.29013@micron.mini.net> 
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From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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> Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI <blkirk@float.eli.net> stands accused of saying:
> >    Couldn't this be overcome by including DOS FS support and using some
> > space out of C:\TEMP .  Swapfiles could be accomplished in the sameway
> > with vnode support.  (Leo's getting Largerrrr!)
> 
>   Two problems : you loose the advantages of a read-only setup if you use a
> hard drive :) And Secondly, msdosfs doesn't have permissions. 
> 
>   Not to mention that if it did, you could still reboot into DOS and midify
> the files. This is not secure. If you want to use HD space, just make a FFS
> partition.

Not really, I am think that it will be a great selling tool if we can
boot from disk and use a swap partition.  

	Cheers,
	Amancio




	



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 20:39:29 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:38:32 -0800
From: Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Cc: Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>,
        "Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI" <blkirk@float.eli.net>,
        Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu>, Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>,
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
Reply-To: Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>
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I'm a big fan of "X terminal on a disk." err... ahhh... CD.

Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com> stands accused of saying:
> > Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI <blkirk@float.eli.net> stands accused of saying:
> > >    Couldn't this be overcome by including DOS FS support and using some
> > > space out of C:\TEMP .  Swapfiles could be accomplished in the sameway
> > > with vnode support.  (Leo's getting Largerrrr!)
> > 
> >   Two problems : you loose the advantages of a read-only setup if you use a
> > hard drive :) And Secondly, msdosfs doesn't have permissions. 
> > 
> >   Not to mention that if it did, you could still reboot into DOS and midify
> > the files. This is not secure. If you want to use HD space, just make a FFS
> > partition.
> 
> Not really, I am think that it will be a great selling tool if we can
> boot from disk and use a swap partition.  
> 
> 	Cheers,
> 	Amancio

-- 
Jonathan Mini 					Ingenious Productions
Software Development				P.O. Box 5693,
						Eugene, Or. 97405

 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five."

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 21:09:18 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:09:06 -0700 (MST)
From: Kurt Olsen <kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu>
Message-Id: <199801220509.WAA07467@bootp.sls.usu.edu>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Big IDE drives (>8 GB)
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I recently purchased a 12 Gig Bigfoot EIDE drive.  At boot up, the probes
identify the drive as an 8 Gig.  I went into fdisk and adjusted the numbers
up to where they should be and managed to get an install working.  Just
wondering what kind of issues are involved with this.  I suspect everything
is ok, but I just want to be sure.

BTW, for a fat, slow drive it sure is fast (8 MB/sec reads, 9 MB/sec
writes on this little 486/33.)

Any comments?

Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc.
Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993
	The Regents of the University of California.  All rights reserved.

FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE #0: Tue Oct 21 14:33:00 GMT 1997
    jkh@time.cdrom.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC
CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU)
real memory  = 20971520 (20480K bytes)
avail memory = 18223104 (17796K bytes)
Probing for devices on the ISA bus:
sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard
sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0>
ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 5 on isa
ed0: address 00:40:95:15:3c:b9, type NE2000 (16 bit) 
sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa
sio0: type 16550A
lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa
lpt0: Interrupt-driven port
lp0: TCP/IP capable interface
fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa
fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold
fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in
wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa
wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): <QUANTUM Bigfoot TX12.0AT>
wd0: 8063MB (16514064 sectors), 16383 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S
wdc1 not found at 0x170
npx0 flags 0x1 on motherboard
npx0: INT 16 interface

And a df -k:

Filesystem  1K-blocks     Used    Avail Capacity  Mounted on
/dev/wd0a       33871    13841    17321    44%    /
/dev/wd0s1e     59471      680    54034     1%    /var
/dev/wd0s1f  11433970   143047 10376206     1%    /usr
procfs              4        4        0   100%    /proc

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 21:14:29 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:14:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Jaye Mathisen  <mrcpu@cdsnet.net>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box...
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   [ I am messing around with a 3 processor P6/233 system to potentially
	do some heavy-duty database work, and it hasn't been able to 
	complete a make buildworld yet.  Crashes with a wide variety of
	errors.  Pop in the NT drive, works fine.  FreeBSD crash.
	Just about to shoot the damn thing, and...]

a tickle of somebody saying something (DG I think) about mixing RAM types.

So I pop the cover off this bad boy and lo and behold, 2 64MB parity's 
from one vendor, 2 more 64MB parity's  froma different vendor.

Replaced them so all 4 were the same vendor, and it is solid as the 
proverbial rock.  2 buildworlds later, -j8, a few million db inserts, and
no problems.

I *love* this OS.

I'm running -current as of today.

If the last of the NFS problems get ironed out so my netapp is happy, 
I can probably retire.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 21:39:31 1998
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To: Kurt Olsen <kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Big IDE drives (>8 GB) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:09:06 PDT."
             <199801220509.WAA07467@bootp.sls.usu.edu> 
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[Bigfoot-12]
> BTW, for a fat, slow drive it sure is fast (8 MB/sec reads, 9 MB/sec
> writes on this little 486/33.)
> 
> Any comments?

I don't think your disk benchmarking results are particularly 
believable.

> wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): <QUANTUM Bigfoot TX12.0AT>
> wd0: 8063MB (16514064 sectors), 16383 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S

Particularly since you're not running in multisector or 32-bit mode.  
Perhaps you are out by a power of 10?  800-900k/sec sounds more 
reasonable.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 21:45:37 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:45:33 -0700 (MST)
From: Kurt Olsen <kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu>
Message-Id: <199801220545.WAA07910@bootp.sls.usu.edu>
To: kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu, mike@smith.net.au
Subject: Re: Big IDE drives (>8 GB)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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>I don't think your disk benchmarking results are particularly 
>believable.

Err, actually you're right.  I had it in my P133 with 32-bit multisector
mode.  Any other comments about the 8G/12G thing?

Kurt

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 21:47:38 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
Subject: Re: uiomove()
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:39:37 +1100 (EDT)".
	<199801212341.PAA11488@hub.freebsd.org>
From: ohashi@mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp (Takeshi Ohashi)
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Hi,

 >>In some mail from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, sie said:
 >>> 
 >>> Still more questions. I'm a bottomless pit of them. :-)
 >>> 
 >>> Can I make multiple uiomove()'s? Or, more to the point (as I should have
 >>> done, anyway :), I'm using a circular buffer, and this means some read()'s
 >>> or write()'s may only be completed up to the size requested by making two
 >>> consecutive uiomove()'s. How can I do this? Does uiomove()'s update uio
 >>> structure, should I do it myself, or what?
 >>
 >>uiomove() may be called multiple times - it updates the uio struct itself.

I wrote a driver which call uiomove() multiple times.
Please refer scc.c in PAO package.

 US - http://Makefile.ORG/FreeBSD/PAO/
 Japan - http://www.jp.FreeBSD.org/PAO/

I remeber that uiomove() in early 2.1.X was buggy. Nowadays it works fine.
--
Takeshi OHASHI

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 22:25:22 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:25:11 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking 
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Mike Smith wrote:

> > > Not to mention the rather attractive security and reliability implications
> > > of running off of a read-only medium.
> > 
> > Can FreeBSD run from read-only media?  Aren't there some files in /etc
> > that need to be writable at run-time?
> 
> I think it's pretty close.  You need a writable /var & /tmp, but apart 
> from /etc/motd there doesn't appear to be anything else.

This leads me back to the /var/run/subdir question.  What was the 
conclusion?  xntpd's driftfile is another example of something which sort 
of belongs in /var/run, but should be preserved across reboots.

Danny

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 22:26:32 1998
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Subject: Re: Locking on disk slice I/O--yes, no or how?
To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:26:11 +0000 (GMT)
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> Terry Lambert said:
> > I guess he could have been talking about "Type Specific Memory",
> > though... but in the context of locking?  8-).
> 
> Type Stable Memory.

Brain Fart.  Mea Culpa.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 22:31:37 1998
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
To: j_mini@efn.org
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:31:15 +0000 (GMT)
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        hasty@rah.star-gate.com, abial@nask.pl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> >    Couldn't this be overcome by including DOS FS support and using some
> > space out of C:\TEMP .  Swapfiles could be accomplished in the sameway
> > with vnode support.  (Leo's getting Largerrrr!)
> 
>   Two problems : you loose the advantages of a read-only setup if you use a
> hard drive :) And Secondly, msdosfs doesn't have permissions. 
> 
>   Not to mention that if it did, you could still reboot into DOS and midify
> the files. This is not secure. If you want to use HD space, just make a FFS
> partition.

I can boot an instal floppy as root, mount an FFS, and have my way with it.
If you are going to reboot, all bets are off.

The MSDOSFS arguments are fixable; specifically, you can have an FS
stacking layer on an MSDOS FS that implements storage for UNIX
semantics using a file which it does not export to consumers.  A
UMSDOSFS, but without the kludges.

I thought it should be names _FSDATA_.DAT (as opposed to the UMSDOS
stuff that is OS name specific and uses __LINUX_.DAT -- not sure
about the extension).  Under DOS it would be a system hidden file.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 22:37:13 1998
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Message-Id: <199801220637.XAA07251@usr09.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box...
To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:37:03 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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>    [ I am messing around with a 3 processor P6/233 system to potentially
> 	do some heavy-duty database work, and it hasn't been able to 
> 	complete a make buildworld yet.  Crashes with a wide variety of
> 	errors.  Pop in the NT drive, works fine.  FreeBSD crash.
> 	Just about to shoot the damn thing, and...]

[ ... memory problems ... ]

One wonders what NT wasn't telling you... if it's bad, it's bad.
I think maybe the difference was that under NT is was undetectably
bad.  Which is bad.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 22:52:03 1998
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To: Jaye Mathisen <mrcpu@cdsnet.net>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box... 
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>So I pop the cover off this bad boy and lo and behold, 2 64MB parity's 
>from one vendor, 2 more 64MB parity's  froma different vendor.

Are you sure that NT was seeing all the memory or using it ?

	Cheers,
	Amancio





From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 22:56:53 1998
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Said it saw it on the bootup screen, and the taskman mem stuff looked
fine.  BIOS sees it OK.

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote:

> >So I pop the cover off this bad boy and lo and behold, 2 64MB parity's 
> >from one vendor, 2 more 64MB parity's  froma different vendor.
> 
> Are you sure that NT was seeing all the memory or using it ?
> 
> 	Cheers,
> 	Amancio
> 
> 
> 
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 22:58:49 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:58:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Jaye Mathisen  <mrcpu@cdsnet.net>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
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I don't think the ram is bad, it's in another machine replacing some 32's
and working fine, I just think maybe the combo of like fast page ECC vs
non-ECC, or some variation in the types was messing it up under stress.

I wasn't putting anywhere near a load on it when it was running NT, just
installed it to see if it would boot.

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Terry Lambert wrote:

> >    [ I am messing around with a 3 processor P6/233 system to potentially
> > 	do some heavy-duty database work, and it hasn't been able to 
> > 	complete a make buildworld yet.  Crashes with a wide variety of
> > 	errors.  Pop in the NT drive, works fine.  FreeBSD crash.
> > 	Just about to shoot the damn thing, and...]
> 
> [ ... memory problems ... ]
> 
> One wonders what NT wasn't telling you... if it's bad, it's bad.
> I think maybe the difference was that under NT is was undetectably
> bad.  Which is bad.
> 
> 
> 					Terry Lambert
> 					terry@lambert.org
> ---
> Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
> or previous employers.
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 23:03:32 1998
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Message-Id: <199801220534.GAA01107@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:34:38 +0100 (MET)
Cc: j_mini@efn.org, blkirk@float.eli.net, bartol@salk.edu,
        benedict@echonyc.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, abial@nask.pl,
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> The MSDOSFS arguments are fixable; specifically, you can have an FS
> stacking layer on an MSDOS FS that implements storage for UNIX
> semantics using a file which it does not export to consumers.  A
> UMSDOSFS, but without the kludges.

that's vnconfig, right ?

	cheers
	luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Wed Jan 21 23:46:31 1998
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo)
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> > The MSDOSFS arguments are fixable; specifically, you can have an FS
> > stacking layer on an MSDOS FS that implements storage for UNIX
> > semantics using a file which it does not export to consumers.  A
> > UMSDOSFS, but without the kludges.
> 
> that's vnconfig, right ?

Huh?!?

No, vnconfig is a program for making a vnode appear as a device.  It's
major value is for:

1)	Building boot floppies from images of compressed MFS's

2)	Building images to put onto read-only media, and test the
	images out, like CDROM's, ROM's, etc..

3)	Being a good enough kludge workaround that it discourages
	people from actually ever completing a working "swapon"
	that can let you set up NeXTStep-like dynamic swapfiles.

The MSDOSFS stacking layer would create a "poop file" in the directory,
and store the things that it normally stores in UNIX inodes that it
can't store in DOS "inodes" because on DOS, "inodes" and "directory
entries" are synonymous.

Technically, this is how Quota's should work, and also how ACL's
should be implemented.

Things like device nodes (devfs will make that need go away), UNIX
domain sockets, file modes, mtime and atime (DOS has create time,
which is not ctime, and file modification time, which is not metadata
modification time), links, symlinks, and names that aren't allowed
in a DOS FS  (I know, VFAT/VFAT32 has long names; but FreeBSD namei()
doesn't know about Unicode; you'd have to kludge it and not use the
upper byte, and if you did that, you'd lose interoperability with
existing files that *did*).

And if you want to get *real* technical, UFS should stack on another
layer that gives a flat "disk block namespace" and FFS should stack
on top of a UFS that exports a flat "inode namespace", and *then*
FFS should export a hierarchical namespace.  Only the pathname buffer
structure is too stupid, and VOP_ABORTOP in every FS and every FS's
VOP's for dealing with path buffers think they know its format, and
that they have to deallocate the bloody thing.  You might even wedge
a "variable granularity block store" between the UFS and the VFS
layer that exports the raw blocks so you could implement record-based
files and extent and LFS semantics in an FFS environment...


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 00:02:15 1998
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In-reply-to: <199801220637.XAA07251@usr09.primenet.com> (message from Terry
	Lambert on Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:37:03 +0000 (GMT))
Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box...
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
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>>    [ I am messing around with a 3 processor P6/233 system to potentially
>> 	do some heavy-duty database work, and it hasn't been able to 
>> 	complete a make buildworld yet.  Crashes with a wide variety of
>> 	errors.  Pop in the NT drive, works fine.  FreeBSD crash.
>> 	Just about to shoot the damn thing, and...]
> [ ... memory problems ... ]
> One wonders what NT wasn't telling you... if it's bad, it's bad.
> I think maybe the difference was that under NT is was undetectably
> bad.  Which is bad.

Could be happenstance.  For instance, suppose that one bit (bit A),
when undergoing a transition from 0 to 1, causes an column-adjacent
bit (bit B) to become stuck at 1.  Now, suppose that his NT kernel
loads at an address such that part of the code includes keeping bit A
at 0.  This would mean that since bit A has never undergone its
fatal transition, then bit B continues to work perfectly.

Recall that the same thing could have happened under FreeBSD,
depending on where the nails land.

Just a consideration.  I've also had machines which would apparently
work perfectly well until I load more than n devices, at which point
they would fatally fail (the nth device happened to, in each of my
test cases, cause the bad RAM to cover I/O buffers, whereas before it
was covering unused memory), or machines that had worked fine for
years under Win3.1, but died horribly the minute we installed Win95
(frequently taking the system registry with them, meaning I had to do
a complete OS reinstall... what's that saying about eggs and
baskets?).

My point is that just because something works, doesn't mean it's a
good component, just as when swapping a component makes the system
work, doesn't mean the component is at fault.  I still use RAM tester
programs, simply because, in my experience, they tend to find faulty
RAM more reliably than *any* other method I've used.  (It also helps
to use a good RAM tester (I like Qualitas RAMExam), rather than some
dink that just sets all bits zero then all bits 1.)

Would other people here like to see a boot-sector RAM tester?

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 00:03:11 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:01:41 -0600
To: Kurt Olsen <kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Tony Overfield <tony@dell.com>
Subject: Re: Big IDE drives (>8 GB)
In-Reply-To: <199801220509.WAA07467@bootp.sls.usu.edu>
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At 10:09 PM 1/21/98 -0700, Kurt Olsen wrote:
>I recently purchased a 12 Gig Bigfoot EIDE drive.  At boot up, the probes
>identify the drive as an 8 Gig.
>
>wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): <QUANTUM Bigfoot TX12.0AT>
>wd0: 8063MB (16514064 sectors), 16383 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S

IDE drives are not allowed (per ATA specs) to report more than these 
values using the ordinary C/H/S data in the DEVICE_IDENTIFY words 1, 3 
and 6.  Some large (> 8 GB) IDE drives will claim only 15 heads, 16383 
cyls, 63 S/T.

For high capacity IDE drives, the total capacity should be obtained 
from words 60 and 61.  It's also best to use the IDE taskfile's LBA 
addressing scheme.  Refer to the ATA specs, if interested.  Sorry for 
this "drive-by" response, but I won't be able to check for replies for 
at least a couple of weeks.

The latest ATA specs are found here:
http://fission.dt.wdc.com/x3t13/

(zipped MS Word .DOC file)
ftp://fission.dt.wdc.com/pub/standards/x3t13/project/d1153r17.zip

(.PDF file)
ftp://fission.dt.wdc.com/pub/standards/x3t13/project/d1153r17.pdf

Annex B is particularly relevant.

-
Tony



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 00:06:19 1998
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Subject: Re: Big IDE drives (>8 GB)
In-Reply-To: <199801220545.WAA07910@bootp.sls.usu.edu> from Kurt Olsen at "Jan 21, 98 10:45:33 pm"
To: kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu (Kurt Olsen)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:05:09 +0100 (MET)
Cc: kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Søren Schmidt <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
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In reply to Kurt Olsen who wrote:
> >I don't think your disk benchmarking results are particularly 
> >believable.
> 
> Err, actually you're right.  I had it in my P133 with 32-bit multisector
> mode.  Any other comments about the 8G/12G thing?

Probably overflow in the calculation of size in the probe...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt               (sos@FreeBSD.org)               FreeBSD Core Team
                Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 00:57:01 1998
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Message-Id: <199801220712.IAA00131@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:12:51 +0100 (MET)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, j_mini@efn.org, blkirk@float.eli.net,
        bartol@salk.edu, benedict@echonyc.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com,
        abial@nask.pl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > > The MSDOSFS arguments are fixable; specifically, you can have an FS
> > > stacking layer on an MSDOS FS that implements storage for UNIX
> > > semantics using a file which it does not export to consumers.  A
> > > UMSDOSFS, but without the kludges.
> > 
> > that's vnconfig, right ?
> 
> Huh?!?
> 
> No, vnconfig is a program for making a vnode appear as a device.  It's
> major value is for:

but I have always done things like this:

	dd if=/dev/zero of=/msdos_drive_c/swapfile bs=8k count=2048
	vnconfig -e swap /dev/vn0 of=/msdos_drive_c/swapfile
	swapon /dev/vn0b

or

	dd if=/dev/zero of=/msdos_drive_c/ufs_on_msdosfs bs=8k count=2048
	vnconfig /dev/vn0 of=/msdos_drive_c/ufs_on_msdosfs
	newfs ... /dev/vn0c

since 2.1 times.

What else would you want (I mean, for that specific application) ?

	cheers
	luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 02:46:05 1998
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From: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
cc: freebsd@pap.waw.pl
Subject: ANNOUNCE: PicoBSD scripts are available
In-Reply-To: <199801220712.IAA00131@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
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Hi!

Today, after making some corrections and adding a README.scripts, I've
uploaded to:
	ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/picoBSD/pbsd-s02.tgz

now fully working set of scripts which allow you to build your own
one-floppy FreeBSD without much hassle. Please read the file
README.scripts for description of initial requirements and the whole
process.

BTW. with the default setup as presented in these scripts, the floppy is
almost read-only (except very early during bootup).

I attached the README at the end of this message.

Have fun!

Andrzej Bialecki

---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------
abial@warman.org.pl  | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") }
Research & Academic  | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out."
Network in Poland    | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion.
---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------

1998.01.22, Warsaw, Poland

			How to build your own version
				of PicoBSD?

0.	Get the file pbsd-s02.tgz. It contains the scripts you'll need. Also,
	I assume you run quite -current system with full sources installed.
	Unpack the archive in some place with at least 5MB free space.

1.	Edit the file scripts/PICOBSD to suit your needs. You'll probably find
	there are some drivers there you don't need, and the ones you need are
	missing.  I also recommend to adjust the ISA devices parameters to
	match the ones of your hardware - there's currently no way to
	automatically store the changes from userconfig (next version will
	do it :-).

2.	Edit the basic parameters which are set at the beginning of the
	'scripts/build' script, such as MFS size (can be any rational number
	in kB), and the language (two are available at this time - Polish and
	English). Also, I assume you will use 1.44MB floppy.

3.	There are two directories which contain some sources and config
	files:

	ash/			a Shell - ancestor of venerable /bin/sh
	mfs.tree/		contains the MFS directory structure
	floppy.tree/		contains the startup floppy hierarchy
	lang/			contains language-dependent files
	scripts/		scripts which do the actual build

	NOTE: the mfs.tree/etc directory is, so to speak, ephemeric. It
	contains enough config files to suck in the real /etc contents from
	the floppy (floppy.tree/etc) right after bootup. This setup is a
	little weird, but it allows you to edit the configuration without
	rebuilding the whole floppy (because you can't change the MFS
	permanently, can you? :-))
	Also, there are no /etc/passwd nor /etc/*pwd.db files on the floppy -
	they are reconstructed from /etc/master.passwd on each startup (and
	then put on MFS with the rest of /etc).

	NOTE2: thanks to the above, the floppy is needed only during startup,
	and then only if you want to synchronize (possiblly changed) MFS /etc
	with the one on the floppy. It means that you can pull off the floppy
	from the drive as soon as login: prompt appears. In other words, it is
	almost equal to read-only floppy.

4.	Edit the set of installed programs.
	*	There are two subdirectories, crunch1 and crunch2.
		Why two? Because if we made one BIG crunch, it would take
		a lot more memory when executing. This is a tradeoff between
		reduced RAM consumption and increased size of two crunch
		archives. If you're sure you have a lot of RAM (like 32MB),
		you can glue them together and thus save ca. 200kB off of
		the target floppy.
	*	There is some (non-conclusive to be sure) rule to estimate the
		RAM requirements: the kernel itself takes ca. 4.1MB and the MFS
		takes its own size (1.44MB by default) of wired down
		(non-pageable) memory. Then, every program started
		will initially take as much as the size of gzip'ped crunch
		archive (e.g. 400kB) PLUS size of gunzip'ped archive (e.g.
		800kB). That's why I split the crunch in two! After initial
		unpacking is done these pages are freed, leaving only the real
		size of executing process.
	*	There are some patches included in these directories, which
		are applied during build process to some of the Makefiles in
		your /usr/src. These patches attempt to decrease the size of
		some programs by cutting off rarely/unlikely used parts. The
		patches are reversed when you do a 'make clean' (or
		scripts/clean for that matter).
	*	In order to have a functioning system you MUST install at
		least /stand/init, or /stand/oinit, or /stand/sysinstall. Of
		course these can be your own programs... But if you install
		the stock /sbin/init, you also have to install some others,
		like sh, getty, login etc...

5.	Make sure that the system you're running has /dev/[r]vn0* entries in
	/dev directory (if not, you can make them with 'MAKEDEV vn0'), AND
	that your running kernel has built-in vnode driver (there should be a
	line in your kernel config file stating 'pseudo-device vn').

6.	You'll need at least 9MB of free disk space, and free /mnt directory.

7.	cd scripts/ and fire off the './build' script. If all is well, after
	some time (like 10-30m) you end up with a 'picobsd.flp' file in this
	directory.

8.	Transfer this file to the floppy:
		dd if=picobsd.flp of=/dev/rfd0

That's all. You're welcome to change and improve these scripts. If you stumble
upon something which looks like a good idea to have it here, let me know.

If, for some reason, the scripts don't work for you at all, also let me know.

Andrzej Bialecki
<abial@nask.pl>


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 03:01:18 1998
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From: John M Vinopal <banshee@abattoir.com>
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I live in CA outside of someplace where I can obtain centrex ISDN.
Therefore I must watch my metering minutes.  As my telnet sessions
are often longlived, they get passed over a permanent v.34 line; ISDN
is used in the evenings and simply set as a default route for those
hours and then dropped.

What I'd like to do is redirect all outgoing requests to WWW servers
to go out the isdn line.  Ie: rdr 0.0.0.0:80 -> tun1.  I've thought
of a number of ways to do this; all are horrible hacks.

* use ipfw to divert packets to :80, use custom hack (or nc) at the
	divert port to readdress and source route out.
* hack my proxy server to source route.
* have an external proxy server with a static route through the proper
	interface.
* build a custom route for each www access through the proper interface.
* dedicate a seperate machine as a proxy server internally with a default
	route out.

It appears that my isp's disallow source routing however.  Building routes
one way or another appears the only viable method.  Or is it?  Have I missed
something?

-j


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 03:08:19 1998
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Subject: Re: rebuilding world after a cvsup
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John Ioannidis wrote:

> After my first full cvsup, I went to /usr/src and typed "make
> buildworld" followed by "make installworld", and things were (much to
> my amazement) worked. However, it is not obvious to me how to do
> another make after a cvsup which updates just a few files; a plain
> "make" does not appear to do the right thing (and indeed, when
> followed by "make install" trashed my machine the one time I tried
> it), and make buildworld erases everything and rebuilds it from
> scratch. Surely there must be a better way than leaving the thing to
> compile for a couple of hours!
>
> Any ideas?
>

It is one of problem, which listed in TODO list on www.freebsd.org

> Thanks,
>
> /ji



--

    @=
     //RSSH                              mailto://Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 03:10:42 1998
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 22 Jan 1998 12:10:23 +0100
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John Ioannidis <ji@research.att.com> writes:
> After my first full cvsup, I went to /usr/src and typed "make
> buildworld" followed by "make installworld", and things were (much to
> my amazement) worked. However, it is not obvious to me how to do
> another make after a cvsup which updates just a few files; a plain
> "make" does not appear to do the right thing (and indeed, when
> followed by "make install" trashed my machine the one time I tried
> it), and make buildworld erases everything and rebuilds it from
> scratch. Surely there must be a better way than leaving the thing to
> compile for a couple of hours! 

It varies from day to day. The idea is that you go through the log and
see what has changed. If there's just been a couple of changes to some
userland apps, you can get away with 'make install' in the appropriate
directories. If, however, there have been changes to the libraries, or
includes, or the kernel (e.g. the mse and psm drivers had some changes
recently, as well as moused) you may need to make world.

-- 
 * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
  RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 05:07:06 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: Jaye Mathisen  <mrcpu@cdsnet.net>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: 64MB SIMM memory problems
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:07:35 GMT
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:58:44 -0800 (PST), Jaye Mathisen
<mrcpu@cdsnet.net> wrote:

>I don't think the ram is bad, it's in another machine replacing some 32's
>and working fine, I just think maybe the combo of like fast page ECC vs
>non-ECC, or some variation in the types was messing it up under stress.

A while back some Tyan Tomcat users were complaining they could not
populate all 8 of their SIMM sockets and run reliably.  I had the same
problem with mine, and later learned why after reading some related
information on AMI's web site which reveals some very important facts
about 64MB SIMMs.

The article quoted below contains the relevant portion of the text
from AMI's web site.  It can be found by searching "Tomecat memory
problems" on Dejanews.  The misspelling of "Tomecat" is intentional.


>In article <5gt0mi$ac3@news2.ais.net>, chip@ais.net.antispam (Chip May) wrote:
>
> > As soon as I populate 3 or 4, all hell breaks loose.  Gone through no
> > less than two dozen different simms to get it to work - to no avail.
> > Flashed to 3.02 and 40e, and back and forth, reset CMOS ...
>
> > I welcome a *real* solution rather than hear all the testimonials from
> > others who apparently do not suffer this problem.....  Looking forward
> > to an answer from someone out there...
>
>
>Here's your answer.
>
>It's not a solution, but the following text from AMI discussing
>memory bus overloading explains why many users cannot run a Tyan
>Tomcat III with all 8 memory sockets filled.
>
>In my own experience with the dual board, I can run 96 meg with all
>eight sockets filled using 4 16-meg and 4 8-meg SIMMs (double sided),
>* BUT ONLY IF * the double sided SIMMs are in the last four sockets.
>
>If I reverse the order and put the double sided SIMMs in the first
>four sockets, it crashes and burns -- Linux 2.0.29 complains during
>bootup that I have a problem with my RAM chips.
>
>The bottom line is that the Intel 430HX chipset does not have enough
>electrical power to run 8 memory SIMMs in every flavor and variety of
>chips and SIMM configuration -- some may work while others will not.
>
>Anyway, here's the text from AMI's web site:
>
>
>  1.  Special Considerations for the Triton II based boards:
>
>      The evolution of current CPU-support chipsets may be likened to
>      the development of the compact cars: going to a finer geometry
>      process reduces the chip size (reducing cost) and improves speed
>      (vs power consumed) but when it comes to driving the memory bus
>      (analogous to towing a trailer) there is no real substitute for
>      size and power.  The Triton II, and to a lesser extent the
>      Natoma, chipset(s) exemplify this trend, and can be problematic
>      if RAM bus loading is not watched carefully. Because the chipset
>      provides separate drivers for some signals used by so-called
>      "doubled-sided" SIMMs (no relationship to how many sides of the
>      SIMM there are chips mounted on!), the loading needs to be
>      considered separately for "Single" and "Double-sided" SIMMs:
>
>      "Single-sided" SIMMs are the 1, 4, 16 and 64MB-sized SIMMs.
>      Generally speaking these all load the chipset equally, as they
>      normally use 4x larger chips to build each progressively larger
>      SIMM -- the exception being the 64MB SIMM, which in its most
>      common version, with 32 or 36 chips, is actually four 16MB SIMMs
>      on one substrate for loading purposes!  Recently 64MB SIMMs
>      based on 64MB chips and having only 8 or 9 chips on the
>      substrate have become available, and load the system much like a
>      1, 4 or 16MB SIMM.  For these SIMMs our loading recommendations
>      are as follows: 1, 4, or 16MB SIMM, also new 64MB built with
>      64MB chips: Triton II (Apollo III/Atlas III/Titan III): two or
>      four SIMMs Natoma (Merlin/Merlin DP/Megapro): two, four, six or
>      eight SIMMs (socket space permitting) Conventional 64MB SIMMs
>      built with 16MB chips: Triton II (Apollo III/Atlas III/Titan
>      III): NOT RECOMMENDED Natoma (Merlin/Merlin DP/Megapro): two
>      SIMMs maximum (without regard to socket space)
>
>      "Double-sided" SIMMs are the 2, 8, and 32MB-sized SIMMs.
>      Generally speaking these all load the chipset equally, as they
>      normally use 4x larger chips to build each progressively larger
>      SIMM.  For these SIMMs our loading recommendations are as
>      follows: 2, 8, or 32MB SIMM:
>
>      Triton II (Apollo III/Atlas III/Titan III): two or four SIMMs
>      Natoma (Merlin/Merlin DP/Megapro): two, four, six or eight SIMMs
>      (socket space permitting)
>
>      Note that when you are loading to the limit it becomes
>      increasingly important that the SIMMs have normal speed margins:
>      industry standards normally provide that a "60ns SIMM" maintain
>      a speed of 60ns at any ambient from 0 to 70 degrees C. (32 to
>      158 degrees F.) AND with 100pf loading on all outputs.  When
>      tested under normal room temperature and test loading conditions
>      a SIMM that reads at its spec limit is suspect -- one would
>      expect it to test a bit faster than spec to allow for
>      degradation under temperature and loading extremes.
>



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 05:20:24 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:18:26 +0100
From: "Stefan Bethke" <stefan@promo.de>
To: "John M Vinopal" <banshee@abattoir.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: routing by protocol
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--On Don, 22. Jan 1998 3:01 Uhr -0800 "John M Vinopal"
<banshee@abattoir.com> wrote: 

> What I'd like to do is redirect all outgoing requests to WWW servers
> to go out the isdn line.  Ie: rdr 0.0.0.0:80 -> tun1.  I've thought
> of a number of ways to do this; all are horrible hacks.
> 

> * have an external proxy server with a static route through the proper
> 	interface.
Actually, this what I use at home.

> * dedicate a seperate machine as a proxy server internally with a default
> 	route out.
This has the added advantage of letting you fetch any http or ftp url
through the ISDN line, not only port 80.

You could also bind your squid's outgoing ports to tun1, so that outgoing
traffic will take the default route (through the leased line), but incoming
will go to tun1's address, and thus will go through the ISDN line. Because
you'll probably will receive more than you send, and http requests are
usually quite small, this should work quite nicely. (As long as you are not
afraid of asymmetric routes :-) At least, this doesn't require any hacks.

Stefan

--
Stefan Bethke
Promo Datentechnik      |  Tel. +49-40-851744-18
+ Systemberatung GmbH   |  Fax. +49-40-851744-44
Eduardstrasse 46-48     |  e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE
D-20257 Hamburg         |  http://www.Promo.DE/


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 06:37:41 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:36:23 -0600 (CST)
From: "Lee Crites (AEI)" <leec@adam.adonai.net>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box... 
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=>>So I pop the cover off this bad boy and lo and behold, 2 64MB parity's 
=>>from one vendor, 2 more 64MB parity's  froma different vendor.
=>
=>Are you sure that NT was seeing all the memory or using it ?

I have no clue what this guy's situation is, but remember, y'all,
our illustrious competitor, NT, is quite a bit slower than we
are.  It is possible that NT was slower than the slower of the
two sets of ram, so it *really* could have never noticed the
problem.  FreeBSD, on the other hand, obviously did. 

So I'd bet NT saw all of the memory *and* was able to use it.  We
just couldn't.

My first FreeBSD box was a converted NT (3.xx) box which labored
under only 8 users.  Under fbsd I tested a max of 70+ users. 
(p200/128meg for those who care). 

Pretty fair difference from my perspective...

Lee


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 06:54:40 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:54:15 -0500 (EST)
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From: Ted Buswell <tbuswell@mediaone.net>
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: xdm & login.conf limits.
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A couple of days ago, there was some discussion of problems stemming
from the fact that logging in via XDM didn't result in the same
set of user limits that you get when logging in via a console.

I've written a simple patch to apply to the XFree86 3.3.1 source
for xdm which remedies that [uses setusercontext()].

If someone [I don't] who exercises the different methods of
authentication were to add to this patch (probably by modifying
xdm/verify.c), we might have something worth giving to XFree86 for
incorporation in future releases.

To try it out, grab the xdm source directory from 
ftp://ftp.xfree86.org:/pub/XFree86/3.3.1/untarred/xc/programs/xdm.tar.gz
and apply the attached patch within the xdm directory; then just
'xmkmf -a; make'

-Ted

diff -r -b -C 3 ../xdm.orig/Imakefile ./Imakefile
*** ../xdm.orig/Imakefile	Wed Aug  6 10:20:35 1997
--- ./Imakefile	Wed Jan 21 21:41:22 1998
***************
*** 89,94 ****
--- 89,102 ----
  #endif
  #endif
  
+ #if defined(FreeBSDArchitecture)
+ #if (OSMajorVersion > 2) || ((OSMajorVersion == 2) && (OSMinorVersion >= 2))
+ XCOMM Use <login_cap.h> on FreeBSD 2.2.2 and beyond.
+ LOGIN_DEFINES= -DUSE_LOGINCAP
+ SYS_LIBRARIES1 = -lutil
+ #endif
+ #endif
+ 
  #if defined(UltrixArchitecture)
  SYS_LIBRARIES1 = -lauth
  #endif
***************
*** 180,186 ****
          DEFINES = -DBINDIR=\"$(BINDIR)\" -DXDMDIR=\"$(XDMDIR)\" \
  		$(SIGNAL_DEFINES) \
  		$(XDMAUTH_DEFINES) $(RPC_DEFINES) $(KRB5_DEFINES) \
! 		$(PWD_DEFINES) $(CONN_DEFINES) \
  		$(GREET_DEFINES) $(FRAGILE_DEFINES) \
  		-DOSMAJORVERSION=$(OSMAJORVERSION) \
  		-DOSMINORVERSION=$(OSMINORVERSION) \
--- 188,194 ----
          DEFINES = -DBINDIR=\"$(BINDIR)\" -DXDMDIR=\"$(XDMDIR)\" \
  		$(SIGNAL_DEFINES) \
  		$(XDMAUTH_DEFINES) $(RPC_DEFINES) $(KRB5_DEFINES) \
! 		$(PWD_DEFINES) $(CONN_DEFINES) $(LOGIN_DEFINES) \
  		$(GREET_DEFINES) $(FRAGILE_DEFINES) \
  		-DOSMAJORVERSION=$(OSMAJORVERSION) \
  		-DOSMINORVERSION=$(OSMINORVERSION) \
diff -r -b -C 3 ../xdm.orig/session.c ./session.c
*** ../xdm.orig/session.c	Thu Dec 26 22:11:50 1996
--- ./session.c	Wed Jan 21 21:49:50 1998
***************
*** 56,61 ****
--- 56,66 ----
  # include <krb5/krb5.h>
  #endif
  
+ #ifdef USE_LOGINCAP
+ #include <login_cap.h>
+ #include <pwd.h>
+ #endif
+ 
  #ifndef GREET_USER_STATIC
  #include <dlfcn.h>
  #ifndef RTLD_NOW
***************
*** 494,499 ****
--- 499,508 ----
      char	**f, *home, *getEnv ();
      char	*failsafeArgv[2];
      int	pid;
+ #ifdef USE_LOGINCAP
+     struct passwd *pwd;
+     login_cap_t *lc;
+ #endif
  
      if (verify->argv) {
  	Debug ("StartSession %s: ", verify->argv[0]);
***************
*** 523,528 ****
--- 532,556 ----
  	    return (0);
  	}
  #else /* AIXV3 */
+ 
+ #ifdef USE_LOGINCAP
+ 	pwd = getpwnam(name);
+ 	if( ! pwd ) {
+ 	  LogError("unable to getpwnam(%s)", name);
+ 	  return(0);
+ 	}
+ 	lc = login_getpwclass( pwd );
+ 	if( ! lc ) {
+ 	  LogError("unable to login_getuserclass(%s)", name);
+ 	  return(0);
+ 	}
+ 	if (setusercontext(lc, pwd, pwd->pw_uid, LOGIN_SETALL) != 0) {
+ 	  LogError("setusercontext(%s) failed - exiting", name);
+ 	  return(0);
+ 	}
+       login_close(lc);
+ #else        
+ 
  	if (setgid(verify->gid) < 0)
  	{
  	    LogError("setgid %d (user \"%s\") failed, errno=%d\n",
***************
*** 547,552 ****
--- 575,581 ----
  		     verify->uid, name, errno);
  	    return (0);
  	}
+ #endif /* FreeBSD */        
  #endif /* AIXV3 */
  
  	/*

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 07:22:11 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:22:01 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
To: Ted Buswell <tbuswell@mediaone.net>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: xdm & login.conf limits.
In-Reply-To: <199801221454.JAA12582@tbuswell.ne.mediaone.net>
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Ted Buswell wrote:

> A couple of days ago, there was some discussion of problems stemming
> from the fact that logging in via XDM didn't result in the same
> set of user limits that you get when logging in via a console.
> 
> I've written a simple patch to apply to the XFree86 3.3.1 source
> for xdm which remedies that [uses setusercontext()].

The XFree86 in the ports collection already has a ptach for
this.  Unfortunately, that patch does not set the environment
variables specified in login.conf.  If your patch does that, I'd
be quite happy.  :)

-john


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 08:20:52 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:20:41 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
To: Timothy Moore <moore@WOLFENET.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: egcs and exceptions
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Timothy Moore wrote:

>    Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:00:22 -0500 (EST)
>    From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
> 
>    I just built egcs in eager anticipation of working exceptions. 
>    No dice (just an Abort Trap).  Is this something that only works
>    on -current? (I'm running 2.2.5)
> 
> It doesn't seem to work in -current either, for me.  I need to build
> an elf-capabile gdb to debug this.

Hmm... It appears as though explicit manual template
instantiation is the only way to use templates too.  :( Maybe the
"do nothing" method described in the docs now assumes an ELF
system?

I'll have to look at the configuration options.  I found a blurb
on dejanews suggesting that NetBSD needs a new gas for exceptions
to work, but if you configure it for setjmp/longjmp (which
involves a runtime overhead), they will work.  I don't mind the
overhead if it is just a temporary state of affairs.... 

-john


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 08:37:10 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:34:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu>
Reply-To: Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>,
        Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>,
        Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>, Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>,
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking 
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Mike Smith wrote:

> > > Not to mention the rather attractive security and reliability implications
> > > of running off of a read-only medium.
> > 
> > Can FreeBSD run from read-only media?  Aren't there some files in /etc
> > that need to be writable at run-time?
> 
> I think it's pretty close.  You need a writable /var & /tmp, but apart 
> from /etc/motd there doesn't appear to be anything else.
> 

O.K. How about this:  would it be possible to use an mfs for /var.  Of
course, using an mfs for /tmp is trivial but /var needs to contain certain
subdirs.

Tom



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 08:47:53 1998
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Subject: Re: xdm & login.conf limits.
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>>>>> "John" == John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu> writes:

    John> The XFree86 in the ports collection already has a ptach for
    John> this.  Unfortunately, that patch does not set the

Reading the patches from the port, it's amazing how unoriginal my
patch was.  But I'll admit I didn't know there was a XFree86 port.
In any case, when I do an OS install and choose to include X, are the
binaries that get installed generated from the port,
or are they obtained from another source (like a binary dist from
XFree86.org)? 

Would it be possible to get the xdm that gets intalled during
OS install (X User, X Developer, etc.) be a 'login.conf aware' xdm?
That is, if the OS install uses pure XFree86 code, has [should?] the
patch in the port made it back to XFree86?

Thanks,
-Ted

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 08:51:47 1998
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In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:47:26 EST."
             <199801221647.LAA12905@tbuswell.ne.mediaone.net> 
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:51:21 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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[redirected just to -hackers, two large mailing lists is too many]

> In any case, when I do an OS install and choose to include X, are the
> binaries that get installed generated from the port,
> or are they obtained from another source (like a binary dist from
> XFree86.org)? 

They're generated by XFree86.org, but I believe that there's also
ongoing effort expended in getting our fixes back to them so that
their official releases are sync'd with ours.  Rich Murphy could
<rich@freebsd.org> tell you more about this specific issue, I'm sure.

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 08:52:38 1998
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From: Stephen Roome <steve@visint.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box... 
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Lee Crites (AEI) wrote:
> =>>So I pop the cover off this bad boy and lo and behold, 2 64MB parity's 
> =>>from one vendor, 2 more 64MB parity's  froma different vendor.
> =>
> =>Are you sure that NT was seeing all the memory or using it ?
> 
> I have no clue what this guy's situation is, but remember, y'all,
> our illustrious competitor, NT, is quite a bit slower than we
> are.  It is possible that NT was slower than the slower of the
> two sets of ram, so it *really* could have never noticed the
> problem.  FreeBSD, on the other hand, obviously did. 
>
> So I'd bet NT saw all of the memory *and* was able to use it.  We
> just couldn't.

Perhaps a more reasonable explanation would be that the NT kernel and most
of the NT applications are such huge bloated pieces of software suffering
so much freeping creaturism that well over half the memory that they have
allocated for themselves is unnessary, not used and therefore if the data
stored in it gets corrupted it doesn't matter and hence it doesn't crash. 
(at least not for that reason anyway!) 

[Still I'd not have considered NT as either a competitor for FreeBSD, and
illustrious must surely be sarcasm!]

> My first FreeBSD box was a converted NT (3.xx) box which labored
> under only 8 users.  Under fbsd I tested a max of 70+ users. 
> (p200/128meg for those who care). 

That's overkill, you must live somewhere hardware is cheap!

	steve ($0.02 included)

I'm going to try using shorter sentences next week.
Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd.
Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342
WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 10:20:48 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:13:13 -0800
From: Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>
To: Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu>
Cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>,
        Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>,
        Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>, Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
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Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu> stands accused of saying:
> O.K. How about this:  would it be possible to use an mfs for /var.  Of
> course, using an mfs for /tmp is trivial but /var needs to contain certain
> subdirs.

Yes. I do it over here. You just need to modify the /etc/rc.* family to
create the /var filesystem before running anything that would need it.

-- 
Jonathan Mini 					Ingenious Productions
Software Development				P.O. Box 5693,
						Eugene, Or. 97405

 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five."

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 10:35:15 1998
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Subject: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:34:48 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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Saw this on a linux newsgroup....  Comments?

Warner

------- Forwarded Message

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:18:56 -0800
From: Mike Shaver <shaver@netscape.com>
Organization: Package Reflectors
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Not directly on-topic, but it means that we'll have a Linux/Indy browser
in the next few quarters.

Yahoo - Netscape Announces Plans to Make Next-Generation Communicator
Source Code Available Free on the Net

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980122/ca_netscap_3.html

Mike
(damn, am I giddy!)
- --------------0A353012A05D6D70FD080C77
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<html><base href="http://biz.yahoo.com/"><title>Yahoo - Netscape Announces Plans to Make Next-Generation Communicator Source Code Available Free on the Net</title><center><map name=p><area shape=rect coords="0,0,210,57" href="http://quote.yahoo.com/"><area shape=rect coords="210,0,447,57" href="http://www.prnewswire.com/"></map><a href="http://www.yahoo.com/bin/menu3"><img width=447 height=57 border=0 alt=" PR Newswire" src="http://www.yahoo.com/images/features/biz/prnews3.gif" usemap="#p" ismap></a><p><!-- SpaceID=0 noad -->
<p>[
<a href="http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/business/">Business</a>
|
<a href="/reports/">US Market</a>
|
<a href="/industry/">Industry</a>
|
<a href="/reports/ipo.html">IPO</a>
|
<a href="/snp/">S&amp;P</a>
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<a href="/reports/world.html">International</a>
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<a href="/prnews/">PRNews</a>
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<a href="http://quote.yahoo.com/?u">Finance Home</a>
]</center><p><hr><b>Thursday January 22, 11:00 am <small>Eastern Time</small></b><h3>Company Press Release</h3><i>SOURCE:
Netscape Communications Corporation</i><h2>Netscape Announces Plans to Make Next-Generation Communicator Source Code Available Free on the Net</h2><h3>   Bold Move to Harness Creative Power of Thousands of Internet Developers;
Company Makes Netscape Navigator and Communicator 4.0 Immediately Free for All
        Users, Seeding Market for Enterprise and Netcenter Businesses</h3><!--prnews|885495600-->
<!-- TextStart -->
<p>
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Jan. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- Netscape Communications
Corporation (Nasdaq: <a href="http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=nscp&d=t">NSCP</a> - <a href="/n/n/nscp.html">news</a>) today announced bold plans to make the source code
for the next generation of its highly popular Netscape Communicator client
software available for free licensing on the Internet.  The company plans to
post the source code beginning with the first Netscape Communicator 5.0
developer release, expected by the end of the first quarter of 1998.  This
aggressive move will enable Netscape to harness the creative power of
thousands of programmers on the Internet by incorporating their best
enhancements into future versions of Netscape's software.  This strategy is
designed to accelerate development and free distribution by Netscape of future
high-quality versions of Netscape Communicator to business customers and
individuals, further seeding the market for Netscape's enterprise solutions
and Netcenter business.

<p>
In addition, the company is making its currently available Netscape
Navigator and Communicator Standard Edition 4.0 software products immediately
free for all users.  With this action, Netscape makes it easier than ever for
individuals at home, at school or at work to choose the world's most popular
Internet client software as their preferred interface to the Internet.

<p>
``The time is right for us to take the bold action of making our client
free -- and we are going even further by committing to post the source code
for free for Communicator 5.0,'' said Jim Barksdale, Netscape's president and
chief executive officer.  ``By giving away the source code for future versions,
we can ignite the creative energies of the entire Net community and fuel
unprecedented levels of innovation in the browser market.  Our customers can
benefit from world-class technology advancements; the development community
gains access to a whole new market opportunity; and Netscape's core businesses
benefit from the proliferation of the market-leading client software.''

<p>
Netscape, plans to make Netscape Communicator 5.0 source code available
for modification and redistribution beginning later this quarter with the
first developer release of the product.  The company will handle free source
distribution with a license that allows source code modification and
redistribution and provides for free availability of source code versions,
building on the heritage of the GNU Public License (GPL), familiar to
developers on the Net.  Netscape intends to create a special Web site service
where all interested parties can download the source code, post their
enhancements, take part in newsgroup discussions, and obtain and share
Communicator related information with others in the Internet community.
Netscape will also continue to develop new technologies and offer periodic
certified, high-quality, supported releases of its Netscape Communicator and
Navigator products, incorporating some of the best features created by this
dynamic community.

<p>
The ubiquity of Netscape's client software facilitates Netscape's strategy
of linking millions of individuals to businesses.  Today's announcements will
help to further proliferate Netscape's award-winning client software, which
today has an installed base of more than 68 million, providing a ready market
for businesses using Netscape's Networked Enterprise software solutions and
Netscape Netcenter services.  Netscape's research indicates that in the
education market where Netscape's products are free, the Netscape client
software commands approximately 90 percent of the market, indicating that
users tend to choose Netscape when the choice is freely available.  Making its
browser software free also will enable Netscape to continue to drive Internet
standards, maximize the number of users on the Internet, and expand the third-
party community of companies and products that take advantage of the Netscape
software platform.

<p>
Netscape has successfully shifted its business over the past year toward
enterprise software sales and to revenues from its Web site business, and away
from standalone client revenues.  In the third quarter of 1997, standalone
client revenues represented approximately 18 percent of Netscape's revenue,
with the rest coming from enterprise software, services and the Web site.
Preliminary results for the fourth quarter of 1997, which Netscape announced
January 5, show standalone client revenues decreased to approximately 13
percent in the fourth quarter.  In the fourth quarter of 1996 by comparison,
standalone client revenue represented approximately 45 percent of Netscape's
revenue.

<p>
In conjunction with its free client, Netscape separately announced today
that it is launching a host of enhanced products and services that leverage
its free client software to make it easy for enterprise and individual
customers to adopt Netscape solutions.  The new products and services
reinforce Netscape's strategy of leveraging market penetration of its popular
client software and its busy Internet site to seed further sales of Netscape
software solutions in the home and business markets.  The new products and
services include enhanced subscription and support packages, an investment
protection program for Netscape Communicator users, new reduced pricing on
Netscape's retail and enterprise client products, new Premium Services on its
Netscape Netcenter online service and Netscape SuiteSpot server software
upgrades featuring Netscape client software.

<p>
In addition, the company separately announced the launch of an aggressive
new software distribution program called ``Unlimited Distribution'' to broadly
distribute its market-leading Internet client software for free.  Unlimited
Distribution enables Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs), Internet Service
Providers (ISPs), telecommunications companies, Web content providers,
publishers and software developers to download and redistribute Netscape
Communicator and Netscape Navigator easily with ``no strings attached.''  In
addition, beginning immediately, individual users can download Netscape
Communicator or Navigator for free, register for Netscape Netcenter and,
beginning tomorrow, enter the ``Choose Netscape'' sweepstakes to win exciting
travel-related prizes, including a grand prize of two all-inclusive, seven-
night tropical resort vacations.

<p>
Individuals can download a free copy of Netscape Communicator client
software or the Netscape Navigator browser from the Netscape home page, at
<a href="http://home.netscape.com">http://home.netscape.com</a>, or by clicking on any of the thousands of ``Netscape
Now'' buttons on the Internet.  Netscape Communicator Professional Edition,
which adds features for enterprise customers, will be available for US$29.

<p>
Netscape Communications Corporation is a premier provider of open software
for linking people and information over enterprise networks and the Internet.
The company offers a full line of Netscape Navigator clients, servers,
development tools and commercial applications to create a complete platform
for next-generation, live online applications.  Traded on Nasdaq under the
symbol ``NSCP,'' Netscape Communications Corporation is based in Mountain View,
California.

<p>
Additional information on Netscape Communications Corporation is available
on the Internet at <a href="http://home.netscape.com">http://home.netscape.com</a>, by sending email to
<a href="mailto:info@netscape.com">info@netscape.com</a> or by calling 650-937-2555 (corporate customers) or
650-937-3777 (individuals).

<p>
Netscape is a trademark of Netscape Communications Corporation, which is
registered in the United States and other jurisdictions.  Netscape
Communications, the Netscape Communications logo, Netscape Navigator, Netscape
SuiteSpot, Netscape Composer, Netscape Messenger and Netscape Communicator are
trademarks of Netscape Communications Corporation.

<!-- TextEnd -->
<p><i>SOURCE:
Netscape Communications Corporation</i><hr align=left width="33%" noshade><table border=0 cellpadding=0><tr
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From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 11:01:58 1998
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To: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:34:48 MST."
             <199801221834.LAA17848@harmony.village.org> 
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:01:45 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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I hope that we now bundle Netscape with the FreeBSD CDROM distribution 8)

	Cheers,
	Amancio



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 11:04:31 1998
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To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:01:45 PST."
		<199801221901.LAA01737@rah.star-gate.com> 
References: <199801221901.LAA01737@rah.star-gate.com>  
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:04:24 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <199801221901.LAA01737@rah.star-gate.com> Amancio Hasty writes:
: I hope that we now bundle Netscape with the FreeBSD CDROM distribution 8)

Heck, that is reason enough to do 2.2.6R all by itself :-)

Warner


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 11:29:17 1998
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To: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
Cc: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Warner Losh wrote:
>In message <199801221901.LAA01737@rah.star-gate.com> Amancio Hasty writes:
>: I hope that we now bundle Netscape with the FreeBSD CDROM distribution 8)
>
>Heck, that is reason enough to do 2.2.6R all by itself :-)

Just make sure it can be uninstalled :-) :-) :-)

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Faber                                                faber@isi.edu
USC/ISI Computer Scientist                   http://www.isi.edu/~faber
(310) 822-1511 x190      PGP Key: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkey.asc



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From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 12:23:01 1998
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	Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:19:37 -0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:19:36 -0500 (EST)
From: "Larry S. Lile" <lile@stdio.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Token-ring driver proposal
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          On the subject of apathy, inertia
                  and token rings

Once again token ring has come back up on the hackers list
and is about to fade out again.  I think it is time to get
this driver written, I have made an attempt at it but I
have had trouble understanding how to interface with the
kernel network code.  Several people have contacted me
about the driver and unfortunately I have made little
progress.  The best possible solution that I can come
up with is to gather a team of interested people together
and get this thing written.

The driver that I had started is no more, I had made
several basic errors in its design and it has been
flushed.  It did provide some insight to how the cards
operate.  I have found on the net the source to the
MACH token ring driver and think that it would be a
good model to follow, less some of the more obfuscated
structures they used.  Also I have what would appear to
be all of the neccesary documentation for the cards to
do the implementation.

On to hardware, I have several token ring cards, cables,
a mau, and several non-FreeBSD machines that I can build
a working ring with and be able to test on.  This should
be sufficient to get the driver working.

What I do not have, unfortunately the skill required to
interface the driver to the kernel and undoubtedly some
other aspects of driver writing.  This is where YOU can
help, with several people working together we should be
able to get a driver up and running in short order, also
we should be able to document most aspects of writing network
device drivers for FreeBSD.

I will provide my development machine as a repository for
the driver where it can be compiled and tested.  It will
be on a private ring with a Win95 box, AIX 4.1.5 (rs6k) and
possibly a IBM Model 25 with a Token-Ring Tap tool for 
network monitoring.  Also I will provide all the documentation
that I have to the team members, including access to the MACH 
driver source that I found on the net.

Please e-mail me if you are interested and I will give
you more details.  When you reply put "tr-driver" in the
subject line so that I will know to read it immediately.

Documentation that will be available:
   MACH tr source code listing
   IBM Token-Ring Network Architecture Reference
   IBM LAN Technical Reference:  Token-Ring Network
      Shared-RAM Adapters
  *IBM LAN Technical Reference:  Token-Ring Network 16/4
      Busmaster Server Adapter/A interface
  *IBM LAN Technical Reference:  Token-Ring Network LANStreamer
      Adapters
  *IBM LAN Credit Card Adapter Technical Reference

  (* On order from IBM should arrive next week)

Regards
Larry Lile
lile@stdio.com


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 12:23:46 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:26:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher R. Bowman" <crb@ChrisBowman.com>
To: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
cc: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
In-Reply-To: <199801221904.MAA18114@harmony.village.org>
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Warner Losh wrote:

>In message <199801221901.LAA01737@rah.star-gate.com> Amancio Hasty writes:
>: I hope that we now bundle Netscape with the FreeBSD CDROM distribution 8)
>
>Heck, that is reason enough to do 2.2.6R all by itself :-)
>
>Warner

Yes, but it will be really cool when we get source ... imagine a broswer
where the N animated icon is instead a picture of chuckie with a rotating
CD that sais FreeBSD on it!


---------
Christopher R. Bowman
crb@ChrisBowman.com
<A HREF="http://www.ChrisBowman.com">My home page</A>


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 12:28:13 1998
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To: "Christopher R. Bowman" <crb@ChrisBowman.com>
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
Cc: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:26:02 EST."
		<Pine.BSF.3.96.980122152338.260A-100000@quark.ChrisBowman.com> 
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980122152338.260A-100000@quark.ChrisBowman.com>  
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:28:08 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <Pine.BSF.3.96.980122152338.260A-100000@quark.ChrisBowman.com> "Christopher R. Bowman" writes:
: Yes, but it will be really cool when we get source ... imagine a broswer
: where the N animated icon is instead a picture of chuckie with a rotating
: CD that sais FreeBSD on it!

I like this.  once source is released, we should be able to do that. :-)

Warner

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 12:30:06 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:29:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Message-Id: <199801222029.MAA02129@rah.star-gate.com>
To: crb@ChrisBowman.com, imp@village.org
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com
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I hope that we can turn netscape into a plugin 8)

	Cheers,
	Amancio

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 12:34:46 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:34:16 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
Cc: "Christopher R. Bowman" <crb@ChrisBowman.com>,
        Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
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On Thu, Jan 22, 1998 at 01:28:08PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote:
> In message <Pine.BSF.3.96.980122152338.260A-100000@quark.ChrisBowman.com> "Christopher R. Bowman" writes:
> : Yes, but it will be really cool when we get source ... imagine a broswer
> : where the N animated icon is instead a picture of chuckie with a rotating
> : CD that sais FreeBSD on it!
> 
> I like this.  once source is released, we should be able to do that. :-)

Source is not necessary.  Customization-kits that will allow changing
of graphics etc should be available for free from Netscape come
tomorrow, according to the info on Netscape's site.

Eivind, who just LOVES this blow to Microsoft (and source-less
programs in general).

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 12:55:34 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:49:19 +0100 (CET)
From: Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>
To: Tom Bartol <bartol@salk.edu>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>,
        Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>,
        Andrzej Bialecki <abial@nask.pl>, Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>,
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking 
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Tom Bartol wrote:

> 
> 
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Mike Smith wrote:
> 
> > > > Not to mention the rather attractive security and reliability implications
> > > > of running off of a read-only medium.
> > > 
> > > Can FreeBSD run from read-only media?  Aren't there some files in /etc
> > > that need to be writable at run-time?
> > 
> > I think it's pretty close.  You need a writable /var & /tmp, but apart 
> > from /etc/motd there doesn't appear to be anything else.
> > 
> 
> O.K. How about this:  would it be possible to use an mfs for /var.  Of
> course, using an mfs for /tmp is trivial but /var needs to contain certain
> subdirs.

Hmm... The setup I used gives you almost identical results. All programs
reside on MFS, and setup is loaded from floppy on startup (which is then
unmounted and can be pulled out of the drive).

Andrzej Bialecki

---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------
abial@warman.org.pl  | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") }
Research & Academic  | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out."
Network in Poland    | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion.
---------------------+---------------------------------------------------------


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> >    Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:00:22 -0500 (EST)
> >    From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
> > 
> >    I just built egcs in eager anticipation of working exceptions. 
> >    No dice (just an Abort Trap).  Is this something that only works
> >    on -current? (I'm running 2.2.5)
> > 
> > It doesn't seem to work in -current either, for me.  I need to build
> > an elf-capabile gdb to debug this.
> 
> Hmm... It appears as though explicit manual template
> instantiation is the only way to use templates too.  :( Maybe the
> "do nothing" method described in the docs now assumes an ELF
> system?

Yes.

There are three methods (according to the C++ comittee member I
talked to about this):

1)	Create a static instance per object module that uses the
	template class.  This was the initial approach, and resulted
	in duplicate code.

2)	Create a single real instance, and reference it from all
	objects instantiated of that type.  This was the initial
	workaround to the duplicate code problem, but required
	specific glue to make work.  The glue was hidden in one
	version of G++ or another.

3)	Create an instance per object module that uses the template
	class.  Unlike #1, however, you create the instance in a
	special section of the object file.  At link time, all
	duplicate sections of this type are discarded.

#3 requires that you have an object file format that supports
multiple sections, and further that each template object
instance be in a seperate section from each other template object
instance of a given type, such that you can take a single
intersection set (obj A has i. and ii., obj B has ii. and iii.,
but you only want one instance of ii.).


> I'll have to look at the configuration options.  I found a blurb
> on dejanews suggesting that NetBSD needs a new gas for exceptions
> to work, but if you configure it for setjmp/longjmp (which
> involves a runtime overhead), they will work.  I don't mind the
> overhead if it is just a temporary state of affairs.... 

The new gas is required to allow for a new weak symbol type; this
saves you from having to define an ELF section flag; instead, you
can define a "normal" ELF section that contains only weak (potentially
duplicate) symbols.  Then the LD can see the weak symbols, and do the
right thing.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 14:10:49 1998
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From: Simon Shapiro <shimon@simon-shapiro.org>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Strange CVS behavior
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In reaction to ``mkdir foo; cvs add foo''  I am getting:

$ cvs add dpt_ctlinfo
require: not found
use: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
=: not found
/Archives/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-CVS/CVSROOT/log_accum.pl:
/Archives/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-CVS: permission denied
sub: not found
/Archives/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-CVS/CVSROOT/log_accum.pl: 68: Syntax error: word
unexpected (expecting ")")
Directory /Archives/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-CVS/src/usr.sbin/dpt/dpt_ctlinfo added
to the repository

If I try again, it seems OK.  I am runing it all as ROOT.  This is under
current, built sometime last week and cvsupped as of an hour ago.


Any clue as what I might have done to deserve this will be appreciated.

----------


Sincerely Yours, 

Simon Shapiro
Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG                      Voice:   503.799.2313

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 14:32:51 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:32:27 +1100
From: David Dawes <dawes@XFree86.org>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: Ted Buswell <tbuswell@mediaone.net>, John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jmz@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: xdm & login.conf limits.
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On Thu, Jan 22, 1998 at 08:51:21AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
>[redirected just to -hackers, two large mailing lists is too many]
>
>> In any case, when I do an OS install and choose to include X, are the
>> binaries that get installed generated from the port,
>> or are they obtained from another source (like a binary dist from
>> XFree86.org)? 
>
>They're generated by XFree86.org, but I believe that there's also
>ongoing effort expended in getting our fixes back to them so that
>their official releases are sync'd with ours.  Rich Murphy could
><rich@freebsd.org> tell you more about this specific issue, I'm sure.

I'm not aware of that, and I only found out about the setusercontext
patch in the ports tree a little while ago by accident (I don't regularly
monitor FreeBSD's XFree86 port).  Although it had been discussed prior
to our 3.3.1 release, nobody actually sent us (XFree86) a patch for
that.  Can I ask that a copy of any patches that people here find
necessary for XFree86 on FreeBSD are sent to devel@xfree86.org?

BTW, we're likely to be making a new release soon primarily to update
some drivers (probably called 3.3.2).  I was going to include the ports
version of this patch in that.  If there is a better one, please let me
know soon.  Ditto if there are any other issues I should know about.

David

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 14:46:37 1998
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From: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
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To: David Dawes <dawes@XFree86.org>
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Subject: New XFree86 release soon (was Re: xdm & login.conf limits.)
In-Reply-To: <19980123093227.09741@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
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> BTW, we're likely to be making a new release soon primarily to update
> some drivers (probably called 3.3.2).

Cool.  I hope you can use the stuff from S.U.S.E., in particular the
Matrox Mill-II version has been working well here with only one little
line in the right-hand side of my screen at the very center.  (I got the
FreeBSD version that Dirk made available.)

In fact, it works *much* better than the XIG version, which has all
sorts of problems. :(


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 14:53:19 1998
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To: David Dawes <dawes@XFree86.org>
cc: Ted Buswell <tbuswell@mediaone.net>, John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jmz@FreeBSD.ORG, rich@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: xdm & login.conf limits. 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:32:27 +1100."
             <19980123093227.09741@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> 
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:52:38 -0800
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> I'm not aware of that, and I only found out about the setusercontext
> patch in the ports tree a little while ago by accident (I don't regularly
> monitor FreeBSD's XFree86 port).  Although it had been discussed prior
> to our 3.3.1 release, nobody actually sent us (XFree86) a patch for
> that.  Can I ask that a copy of any patches that people here find
> necessary for XFree86 on FreeBSD are sent to devel@xfree86.org?

Ick.  Then it sounds as if our XFree86 liason is simply failing to
liase.  Rich!  Yo, wake up man! ;-)

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 14:56:33 1998
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From: David Dawes <dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
To: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: New XFree86 release soon (was Re: xdm & login.conf limits.)
References: <199801221647.LAA12905@tbuswell.ne.mediaone.net> <11381.885487881@time.cdrom.com> <19980123093227.09741@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> <199801222246.PAA18358@mt.sri.com>
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On Thu, Jan 22, 1998 at 03:46:29PM -0700, Nate Williams wrote:
>> BTW, we're likely to be making a new release soon primarily to update
>> some drivers (probably called 3.3.2).
>
>Cool.  I hope you can use the stuff from S.U.S.E., in particular the
>Matrox Mill-II version has been working well here with only one little
>line in the right-hand side of my screen at the very center.  (I got the
>FreeBSD version that Dirk made available.)

Yes, with the possible exception of one driver that wasn't present in 3.3.1,
all the SuSE stuff will be in 3.3.2.

David

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 15:01:25 1998
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Nate Williams wrote:
> 
> > BTW, we're likely to be making a new release soon primarily to update
> > some drivers (probably called 3.3.2).
> 
> Cool.  I hope you can use the stuff from S.U.S.E., in particular the
> Matrox Mill-II version has been working well here with only one little
> line in the right-hand side of my screen at the very center.  (I got the
> FreeBSD version that Dirk made available.)
> 
> In fact, it works *much* better than the XIG version, which has all
> sorts of problems. :(
> 
> Nate
Hi all,

Anyone knows that does XFree86 releases the Xserver for 3Dlab permidia
II chip?  Or any other organizatios make this kind of Xserver?

Thanks

Ben

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 15:36:22 1998
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From: Simon Shapiro <shimon@simon-shapiro.org>
To: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
Subject: Re: Strange CVS behavior
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On 22-Jan-98 Nate Williams wrote:
>> In reaction to ``mkdir foo; cvs add foo''  I am getting:
>> 
>> $ cvs add dpt_ctlinfo
>> require: not found
> 
> Umm, I'd say that you are using the FreeBSD repository w/out any local
> modifications to the files in CVSROOT, which is indeed a bad thing to
> do.  The repository requires perl5 to be installed, and apparently the
> scripts aren't using perl and/or they aren't using perl5.
> 
> The moral of the story is to not use the stuff in CVSROOT w/out knowing
> what they do. :) :)

This is all fine and dandy, except:

a.  Perl is installed, all versions available in ports

b.  It worked perfectly fine for over a year, until today.

c.  I am not using anything in CVSROOT explicitly.  I use the command
    ``cvs add dir_name'' which worked yesterday and does not work today.

My question still stands (unanswered?):  What changed?

----------


Sincerely Yours, 

Simon Shapiro
Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG                      Voice:   503.799.2313

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 15:43:31 1998
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> In reaction to ``mkdir foo; cvs add foo''  I am getting:
> 
> $ cvs add dpt_ctlinfo
> require: not found

Umm, I'd say that you are using the FreeBSD repository w/out any local
modifications to the files in CVSROOT, which is indeed a bad thing to
do.  The repository requires perl5 to be installed, and apparently the
scripts aren't using perl and/or they aren't using perl5.

The moral of the story is to not use the stuff in CVSROOT w/out knowing
what they do. :) :)


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 16:13:18 1998
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> > The moral of the story is to not use the stuff in CVSROOT w/out knowing
> > what they do. :) :)
> 
> This is all fine and dandy, except:
> 
> a.  Perl is installed, all versions available in ports

Is it installed where the stuff in CVSROOT expects it.

> b.  It worked perfectly fine for over a year, until today.

You were lucky up till this point for whatever reason.


> c.  I am not using anything in CVSROOT explicitly.  I use the command
>     ``cvs add dir_name'' which worked yesterday and does not work today.

If you're using cvs and the CVSROOT you are using is from the FreeBSD,
you are explicitly using the files in CVSROOT.  You have no choice
unless you've edited the configuration files (which live in CVSROOT) to
not use them.


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 16:47:59 1998
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To: imp@village.org
Cc: crb@ChrisBowman.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
        hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:28:08 -0700".
	<199801222028.NAA19088@harmony.village.org>
From: hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi)
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In article <199801222028.NAA19088@harmony.village.org>
imp@village.org writes:

>> In message <Pine.BSF.3.96.980122152338.260A-100000@quark.ChrisBowman.com> "Christopher R. Bowman" writes:
>> : Yes, but it will be really cool when we get source ... imagine a broswer
>> : where the N animated icon is instead a picture of chuckie with a rotating
>> : CD that sais FreeBSD on it!
>> 
>> I like this.  once source is released, we should be able to do that. :-)

<A HREF=about:daemon>I like it too :-).</A>  I'll draw the animation.
How about freebsd-netscape mailing list?

--
HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi
Network Technology Center
Keio University
hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 17:45:55 1998
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To: hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi)
cc: imp@village.org, crb@ChrisBowman.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com,
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Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:46:54 +0900."
             <199801230046.JAA24367@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> 
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Cool!

How about .... a daemon pacing or fixing himself up in front of a "Window" 8)

	Cheers,
	Amancio

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 18:03:01 1998
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Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:44:51 -0800."
             <199801230144.RAA03265@rah.star-gate.com> 
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> Cool!
> 
> How about .... a daemon pacing or fixing himself up in front of a "Window" 8)

Is it just me, or haven't you always been able to change the animation 
with a few lines of JavaScript?

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 18:05:25 1998
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From: Sean Eric Fagan <sef@kithrup.com>
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
In-Reply-To: <199801230046.JAA24367.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp>
References: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:28:08 -0700".
	<199801222028.NAA19088@harmony.village.org>
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In article <199801230046.JAA24367.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> you write:
>>> : where the N animated icon is instead a picture of chuckie with a rotating
>>> : CD that sais FreeBSD on it!
>>> I like this.  once source is released, we should be able to do that. :-)
><A HREF=about:daemon>I like it too :-).</A>  I'll draw the animation.

Please bear in mind there is a good chance that it will be released under a
"for non-commercial use only" license, in which case it won't be able to be on
the freebsd cdrom.  Still.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 18:10:11 1998
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On 22-Jan-98 Nate Williams wrote:
>> > The moral of the story is to not use the stuff in CVSROOT w/out
>> > knowing
>> > what they do. :) :)
>> 
>> This is all fine and dandy, except:
>> 
>> a.  Perl is installed, all versions available in ports
> 
> Is it installed where the stuff in CVSROOT expects it.

pkg_add perl*.tgz

>> b.  It worked perfectly fine for over a year, until today.
> 
> You were lucky up till this point for whatever reason.

I guess.  Or maybe unlucky as of today.  I doubt that though.  something
broke.  I guess I'll have to see which/what/why perl is nasty to me.

>> c.  I am not using anything in CVSROOT explicitly.  I use the command
>>     ``cvs add dir_name'' which worked yesterday and does not work today.
> 
> If you're using cvs and the CVSROOT you are using is from the FreeBSD,
> you are explicitly using the files in CVSROOT.  You have no choice
> unless you've edited the configuration files (which live in CVSROOT) to
> not use them.

Sure.  I am using the FreeBSD stuff as I am working on the FreeBSD source.
Sorry if I made you think i am trying to use the FreeBSD CVS setup for
non-FreeBSD stuff.  The reason for mkdir and add is adding new commands,
that should be checked in (hopefully).  To the curious:  Some native ports
of certain DPT admin commands.  I am putting them in
/usr/src/usr.sbin/dpt/dpt_some_command.  Yes, they buiold and run fine.
Yes, they will be on the next patch.  Yes, I am moving the ftp server to a
7x24 T1 connected host.

----------


Sincerely Yours, 

Simon Shapiro
Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG                      Voice:   503.799.2313

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 18:11:01 1998
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From: Adam Turoff <AdamT@smginc.com>
To: hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>, "'sef@kithrup.com'" <sef@kithrup.com>
Subject: RE: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
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>Please bear in mind there is a good chance that it will be released   
under a
> "for non-commercial use only" license, in which case it won't be able   
to be on
> the freebsd cdrom.  Still.

Uh, no.  According to the press announcement, the source is going out
under the GPL.  They get the rights to see any new feature someone
comes up with and can't limit use of the source.  Should be free to use
with the *BSD/Linux/etc. CDs.

How they're going to deal with that and make the value added versions
worth paying for and not GPL'ed is going to be interesting.

 -- Adam.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 18:34:46 1998
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From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: Adam Turoff <AdamT@smginc.com>
cc: hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>, "'sef@kithrup.com'" <sef@kithrup.com>
Subject: RE: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Adam Turoff wrote:

> 
> Uh, no.  According to the press announcement, the source is going out
> under the GPL.  They get the rights to see any new feature someone
> comes up with and can't limit use of the source.  Should be free to use
> with the *BSD/Linux/etc. CDs.
> 
> How they're going to deal with that and make the value added versions
> worth paying for and not GPL'ed is going to be interesting.

It is a promotional exercise.  They get 10000 hackers brains making 
Netscape's browser the best in the world, and so corporations will 
naturally go to Netscape for web and proxy servers etc.  

What I like about this announcement is that it necessarily becomes legal 
to carry a Netscape mirror site (I hope!)

Danny

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 18:51:19 1998
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        "'sef@kithrup.com'" <sef@kithrup.com>
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:32:39 +1100."
             <Pine.BSF.3.91.980123133010.29251E-100000@panda.hilink.com.au> 
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> 
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Adam Turoff wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Uh, no.  According to the press announcement, the source is going out
> > under the GPL.  They get the rights to see any new feature someone
> > comes up with and can't limit use of the source.  Should be free to use
> > with the *BSD/Linux/etc. CDs.

More pertinently, even if commercial use is restricted, distribution is 
not.  "Netscape is on the CD, but you can't use it for commercial 
purposes."  Aha.  Kind of like nobody uses the current "evaluation" 
binaries for commercial purposes.  8)

> > How they're going to deal with that and make the value added versions
> > worth paying for and not GPL'ed is going to be interesting.
> 
> It is a promotional exercise.  They get 10000 hackers brains making 
> Netscape's browser the best in the world, and so corporations will 
> naturally go to Netscape for web and proxy servers etc.  

There are some other interesting issues too; if redistribution of 
binaries built from modified source is legal, I would guess it'll take 
no more than a few weeks for a version with decent encryption to become 
available outside the USA. 

> What I like about this announcement is that it necessarily becomes legal 
> to carry a Netscape mirror site (I hope!)

It certainly reads that way.  I think I'll wait and read the fine print 
first though.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 19:06:31 1998
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
To: AdamT@smginc.com (Adam Turoff)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:04:47 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sef@kithrup.com
In-Reply-To: <34C825ED@smginc.com> from "Adam Turoff" at Jan 22, 98 09:10:00 pm
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In some mail from Adam Turoff, sie said:
> 
> 
> >Please bear in mind there is a good chance that it will be released   
> under a
> > "for non-commercial use only" license, in which case it won't be able   
> to be on
> > the freebsd cdrom.  Still.
> 
> Uh, no.  According to the press announcement, the source is going out
> under the GPL.  They get the rights to see any new feature someone
> comes up with and can't limit use of the source.  Should be free to use
> with the *BSD/Linux/etc. CDs.

Not just that, but it will be possible to compile Netscape (finally!) for
all those obscure ports such as hp300, etc.  No longer is FreeBSD required
to use a BSDI compatible browser, etc.

Presuming you have motif, of course, to compile it with :-)

Darren

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 19:40:48 1998
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To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:04:38 PST."
		<199801230204.SAA17663@kithrup.com> 
References: <199801230204.SAA17663@kithrup.com>  Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:28:08 -0700". <199801222028.NAA19088@harmony.village.org> 
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:40:48 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <199801230204.SAA17663@kithrup.com> Sean Eric Fagan writes:
: Please bear in mind there is a good chance that it will be released under a
: "for non-commercial use only" license, in which case it won't be able to be on
: the freebsd cdrom.  Still.

The press release said GPL.  It also said that binaries were free for
OEMs to redistribute.

Warner


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 19:48:25 1998
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The Permedia is already supported in XI Graphics AccerealtedX, with True 
and Pseudocolor modes. However, the GL libraries are _software_ 
accelerators only, and they provide zero hardware assistance. A Matrox 
Millenium will still do better than the Permedia for the current GL 
libraries.

You need to download a patch to the 4.1-RELEASE, and I have only tested 
it with the Diamond FireGL 1000 Pro. (Both the number and the "Pro" 
designation are vital; the 1000, 2000, and 3000 are not supported.)

A 3d-assisted GL library will be out "soon", just like Windows98 and 
NT5.0 I presume. 

Kevin


On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Ben Lai wrote:

> Nate Williams wrote:
> > 
> > > BTW, we're likely to be making a new release soon primarily to update
> > > some drivers (probably called 3.3.2).
> > 
> > Cool.  I hope you can use the stuff from S.U.S.E., in particular the
> > Matrox Mill-II version has been working well here with only one little
> > line in the right-hand side of my screen at the very center.  (I got the
> > FreeBSD version that Dirk made available.)
> > 
> > In fact, it works *much* better than the XIG version, which has all
> > sorts of problems. :(
> > 
> > Nate
> Hi all,
> 
> Anyone knows that does XFree86 releases the Xserver for 3Dlab permidia
> II chip?  Or any other organizatios make this kind of Xserver?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ben
> 

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 20:05:52 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:06:07 GMT
Message-ID: <34c82454.17691507@mail.cetlink.net>
References: <199801230204.SAA17663@kithrup.com>  Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:28:08 -0700". <199801222028.NAA19088@harmony.village.org>  <199801230340.UAA22987@harmony.village.org>
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:40:48 -0700, Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
wrote:

>The press release said GPL.

This is an interesting case of BSD vs. GPL.

If Netscape used a BSD type license, Microsoft could take it and add
improvements and hide the improvements.  With GPL, they can still take
it, but can't hide the improvements.  At least not without getting
sued by Netscape.

So GPL is better for Netscape.


John




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Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
In-Reply-To: <34c82454.17691507@mail.cetlink.net> from John Kelly at "Jan 23, 98 05:06:07 am"
To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:12:56 -0500 (EST)
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John Kelly said:
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:40:48 -0700, Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
> wrote:
> 
> >The press release said GPL.
> 
> This is an interesting case of BSD vs. GPL.
> 
> If Netscape used a BSD type license, Microsoft could take it and add
> improvements and hide the improvements.  With GPL, they can still take
> it, but can't hide the improvements.  At least not without getting
> sued by Netscape.
> 
> So GPL is better for Netscape.
> 
I agree, in this case a GPLed Netscape is better for everyone.  Since it
is a complete work, and not likely to taint other software, it is probably
not bad to use GPL.  I would suggest specific relief from GPL regarding
programming interface specs though.

-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 20:43:11 1998
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From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Warner Losh wrote:

> In message <199801230204.SAA17663@kithrup.com> Sean Eric Fagan writes:
> : Please bear in mind there is a good chance that it will be released under a
> : "for non-commercial use only" license, in which case it won't be able to be on
> : the freebsd cdrom.  Still.
> 
> The press release said GPL.  It also said that binaries were free for
> OEMs to redistribute.

It does _not_ say GPL.  Read it very carefully.  It says:

>The company will handle free source distribution with a license
>that allows source code modification and redistribution and provides
>for free availability of source code versions, building on the
>heritage of the GNU Public License (GPL), familiar to developers
>on the Net.

I would be suprised if they used the GPL as is.  It is also true
that the freely available source part of this announcement is
nothing more than hype until it is done.  "building on the heritage"
could mean allowing somewhat similar things yet "building" a _new_
licence.

There are also going to be some components that will almost certainly end
up being stripped out due to licencing issues.  That is, of course, hard
to tell right now because who knows what 5.0 will be.  It will probably
have substantial changes.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 20:53:33 1998
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Marc Slemko wrote:

> I would be suprised if they used the GPL as is.  It is also true
> that the freely available source part of this announcement is
> nothing more than hype until it is done.  "building on the heritage"
> could mean allowing somewhat similar things yet "building" a _new_
> licence.

I read it the same as you, and was just going back to read NETSCAPES FAQ
again to make sure i read it right. The only place i saw reference to it
using the GPL was in one of the many online news resources, either in
wired, or tech web, etc..

But netscapes actual FAQ states that as you said above, it will be
released on a license SIMILAR to GPL, But that the licensing won't be
finalized until 5.0 is out. According to the FAQ anyway.
And i'm guessing they stated GPL simply because it's probably more well
known than saying "BSD license", or "Insert favorite license here".

We won't know for sure until 5.0 is out though.

--

===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting.
  FreeBSD 2.2.5 is available now!  | Phone: 316-326-6800
-----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152
   FreeBSD: The power to serve!    | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net
      http://www.freebsd.org       | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security
===================================| http://open-systems.net 

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From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 21:00:05 1998
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> >> a.  Perl is installed, all versions available in ports
> > 
> > Is it installed where the stuff in CVSROOT expects it.
> 
> pkg_add perl*.tgz

You didn't answer my question.  Is it installed where the files in
CVSROOT expects it.

> >> c.  I am not using anything in CVSROOT explicitly.  I use the command
> >>     ``cvs add dir_name'' which worked yesterday and does not work today.
> > 
> > If you're using cvs and the CVSROOT you are using is from the FreeBSD,
> > you are explicitly using the files in CVSROOT.  You have no choice
> > unless you've edited the configuration files (which live in CVSROOT) to
> > not use them.
> 
> Sure.  I am using the FreeBSD stuff as I am working on the FreeBSD source.

So, your machine isn't named freefall, so it doesn't matter that it's
the FreeBSD tree or sources.

The commitcheck doesn't/shouldn't allow connections except from
freefall.  The commit script sends email to people, and other
misc. things are assumed if you use the stock files in the FreeBSD CVS
tree.



Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 21:36:01 1998
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Reply-To: patl@phoenix.volant.org
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG
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> John Kelly said:
> > On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:40:48 -0700, Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > >The press release said GPL.

Actually, it said something about "building on the heritage of
the GPL..."; but that is another thread.

> > This is an interesting case of BSD vs. GPL.
> > 
> > If Netscape used a BSD type license, Microsoft could take it and add
> > improvements and hide the improvements.  With GPL, they can still take
> > it, but can't hide the improvements.  At least not without getting
> > sued by Netscape.
> > 
> > So GPL is better for Netscape.
> > 
> I agree, in this case a GPLed Netscape is better for everyone.  Since it
> is a complete work, and not likely to taint other software, it is probably
> not bad to use GPL.  I would suggest specific relief from GPL regarding
> programming interface specs though.

Actually, there is one thing I would like to see it taint.  (Given
that the licence terms are similar enough to the GPL to include the
tainting feature.)  Imagine the scenario where Microsoft decides
to incorporate some of this free code into IE.  But wait - they
claim that IE is part of the OS.  That would taint the entire OS
and require them to release the sources...

I know, it will never happen; but we can dream...



-Pat

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 21:38:02 1998
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From: Simon Shapiro <shimon@simon-shapiro.org>
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On 23-Jan-98 Nate Williams wrote:
>> >> a.  Perl is installed, all versions available in ports
>> > 
>> > Is it installed where the stuff in CVSROOT expects it.
>> 
>> pkg_add perl*.tgz
> 
> You didn't answer my question.  Is it installed where the files in
> CVSROOT expects it.

Sorry.  I thought I did.  none of the installation changed.  The system is
installed EXACTLY standard.  I did not install anything new.  So although I
do not KNOW the answer, I cann assume it to be ``yes''.

In the meantime, I built perl5 from the ports collection and forced
re-install.  This took catre of it.


Thanx for quickly pointing out the culprit (perl).  What corrupted I really
do not know.  Neither do I know why.

...

> So, your machine isn't named freefall, so it doesn't matter that it's
> the FreeBSD tree or sources.
> 
> The commitcheck doesn't/shouldn't allow connections except from
> freefall.  The commit script sends email to people, and other
> misc. things are assumed if you use the stock files in the FreeBSD CVS
> tree.

Oh, I understand that.  I am not attempting to commit any of this.  When I
use ``cvs add'' for my stuff, I get the benefit that ``cvs update'' and
``cvs diff'' understand my desire for harnmoneous source tree and merge and
diff the entire delta my project does.  I started doing this at the
suggestion of either Justin or David.  And it works very well for my needs.

Thanx for the help.

----------


Sincerely Yours, 

Simon Shapiro
Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG                      Voice:   503.799.2313

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From: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
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In article <Pine.BSF.3.96.980121185653.8321B-100000@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu>,
John Fieber  <jfieber@indiana.edu> wrote:
> I just built egcs in eager anticipation of working exceptions. 
> No dice (just an Abort Trap).  Is this something that only works
> on -current? (I'm running 2.2.5)

Could you please try recompiling your programs with
"-fsjlj-exceptions" on the command line?  I think that might help.  If
it does, I'll add a patch to the port to make it the default.

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 22:21:06 1998
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From: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
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To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org
Cc: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Strange CVS behavior
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.980122214522.shimon@simon-shapiro.org>
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> > You didn't answer my question.  Is it installed where the files in
> > CVSROOT expects it.
> 
> Sorry.  I thought I did.  none of the installation changed.

A stock installation doesn't necessarily install perl where it's
expected.  (Even including the port)

> > So, your machine isn't named freefall, so it doesn't matter that it's
> > the FreeBSD tree or sources.
> > 
> > The commitcheck doesn't/shouldn't allow connections except from
> > freefall.  The commit script sends email to people, and other
> > misc. things are assumed if you use the stock files in the FreeBSD CVS
> > tree.
> 
> Oh, I understand that.  I am not attempting to commit any of this.  When I
> use ``cvs add'' for my stuff, I get the benefit that ``cvs update'' and
> ``cvs diff'' understand my desire for harnmoneous source tree and merge and
> diff the entire delta my project does.  I started doing this at the
> suggestion of either Justin or David.  And it works very well for my needs.

cvs add doesn't do anything (really) unless you do a cvs commit, which
requires (minor) modifications to the files in CVSROOT.


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 22:45:59 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801230645.XAA23724@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
To: opsys@mail.webspan.net (Open Systems Networking)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:45:43 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: marcs@znep.com, imp@village.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980122234748.26657A-100000@orion.webspan.net> from "Open Systems Networking" at Jan 22, 98 11:53:17 pm
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> > I would be suprised if they used the GPL as is.  It is also true
> > that the freely available source part of this announcement is
> > nothing more than hype until it is done.  "building on the heritage"
> > could mean allowing somewhat similar things yet "building" a _new_
> > licence.
> 
> I read it the same as you, and was just going back to read NETSCAPES FAQ
> again to make sure i read it right. The only place i saw reference to it
> using the GPL was in one of the many online news resources, either in
> wired, or tech web, etc..

The JAVA license (the original, not the current one) "built on the heritage
of the GPL" while maintaining control in the hands of the licensor.

I think they are idiots if they give up control of the browser/server
interface.

I expect them to retain editorial control on the "official releases".
This is, in fact, only slightly more restricted than GPL, wherein the
GPL code is maintained by a central repository.  Cygnus proved that
there is room for one (and *only* one) editorial source per GPL style
product.  I think that the JAVA license take advantage of this while
recognizing that fact (though I think Sun screwed up bigtime when they
changed the license terms to try an capitolize on the JAVA licensees).

If you had control of the protocol clients used to talk to servers, and
you were a server vendor, would you give up control of one end of the
protocol?


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 22:54:00 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:49:54 -0500
To: FREEBSD-HACKERS@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Matthew Hagerty <matthew@wolfepub.com>
Subject: Semaphore semop(), semctl() error 22
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Greetings, 

   I posted this in freebsd-questions but was told it should probably be
posted in -hackers.  Please excuse me if it is inappropriate.

   I am trying to bet a BSDI binary (an RDBMS, Raima Velocis-1.4.1) to run
on 2.2.5-Release.  The server starts fine, but when I try to access it, it
crashes with an error to semop(), then to semctl() error 22.  Here is the
error that I get on the terminal:

**** rm_syncDelete() semctl() failure, errno=22 (Invalid argument)

I did a ktrace and kdump to see what might be going on, but since I'm
really not sure what I'm looking at, it did not help me much.  In the
kdump, there are several (about 100 actually) of these groups of lines that
seem to get the errors rolling:

   196 rds      CALL  semop(0x10000,0xefbfdbcc,0x1)
   196 rds      PSIG  SIGALRM caught handler=0xdb8b8 mask=0x0 code=0x0
   196 rds      RET   semop -1 errno 4 Interrupted system call
.
. Then later they get worse:
.
   196 rds      CALL  write(0x2,0xefbfcc84,0x44)
   196 rds      GIO   fd 2 wrote 68 bytes
       "**** rm_syncEnterExcl() semop() failure, errno=22 (Invalid argument)"
.
. And worse
.
   196 rds      GIO   fd 2 wrote 14 bytes
       "NCP Child died"
   196 rds      RET   write 14/0xe
.
. Now semctl
.
   196 rds      CALL  write(0x1,0x139000,0x43)
   196 rds      GIO   fd 1 wrote 67 bytes
       "**** rm_syncDelete() semctl() failure, errno=22 (Invalid argument)
       "
   196 rds      RET   write 67/0x43
.
. Server tries to abort
.
   196 rds      CALL  write(0x2,0xefbfccf0,0x12)
   196 rds      GIO   fd 2 wrote 18 bytes
       "***SERVER ABORT***"
   196 rds      RET   write 18/0x12
.
. But can't
.
   196 rds      CALL  write(0x1,0x139000,0x43)
   196 rds      GIO   fd 1 wrote 67 bytes
       "**** rm_syncDelete() semctl() failure, errno=22 (Invalid argument)
       "
   196 rds      RET   write 67/0x43

   Most of this repeats.  I had to do a kill pid to stop the server.

   I have set:

   options SYSVSHM
   options SYSVSEM
   options SYSVMSG 

in a custom kernel, but this does not seem to help.  Is there anything else
I should check?  I noticed *many* options for semaphores in the kernel LINT
file,
but I have no idea if any of those parameters are relavent to this problem,
and if so, what they *should* be set to.

   Any info, pointers, man pages to read, etc. would be greatly
appreciated.  Also, how compatable is FreeBSD's semaphores to BSDI's?  I
was told that FreeBSD's *native* operating mode was BSD (or is that BSD/OS,
BSDI, or BSD-4.4?)  No emulation needed like for SCO or Linux binaries.
Then again, I think BSD4.4 borrowed semaphores from SVR4?  Yes, no?

Please to email since I am not currently subscribed to the list.

Thank you for you time and efforts, FreeBSD is a great system.

Matthew Hagerty
wpub1@net-link.net


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 23:21:24 1998
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From: Alex Belits <abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: Open Systems Networking <opsys@mail.webspan.net>, marcs@znep.com,
        imp@village.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
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On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Terry Lambert wrote:

> The JAVA license (the original, not the current one) "built on the heritage
> of the GPL" while maintaining control in the hands of the licensor.
> 
> I think they are idiots if they give up control of the browser/server
> interface.

  HTTP standard is pretty much out of their hands already (and never
really was there). SSL, of course, was added by them, and more compatible
version of encrypted HTTP and MD5 authentication rejected, but that was
done in significantly less barbaric way than other things by the same
people at the same time.

> I expect them to retain editorial control on the "official releases".
> This is, in fact, only slightly more restricted than GPL, wherein the
> GPL code is maintained by a central repository.  Cygnus proved that
> there is room for one (and *only* one) editorial source per GPL style
> product.

  Emacs - XEmacs - Mule (ok, last one is now going to merge with every of
first two). And while not the most stable thing in the world, pgcc exists,
as a separate gcc branch.

>  I think that the JAVA license take advantage of this while
> recognizing that fact (though I think Sun screwed up bigtime when they
> changed the license terms to try an capitolize on the JAVA licensees).

> If you had control of the protocol clients used to talk to servers, and
> you were a server vendor, would you give up control of one end of the
> protocol?

  IMHO there is no control. Netscape long ago made a server-push extension
for HTTP protocol. Netscape never really used that, never made it into any
standard, and while server-push being useful for a lot of things, lack of
servers that support it without eating a lot of resources made it
near-to-unknown for most of people except for server-updating images. Do a
lot of people here know that "multipart/x-mixed-replace" server push works
on HTML documents and allows server-initiated update of them in browser?

  Of course, HTML is completely different story -- everybody remembers 
ugly creations of tags war, and now it's shifted to J*scripts/stylesheets 
war, but that's significantly less dangerous than proprietary extensions
to protocols, randomly being added by competing vendors.

--
Alex


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 23:25:09 1998
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In-reply-to: <199801230340.UAA22987@harmony.village.org> (message from Warner
	Losh on Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:40:48 -0700)
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org
References: <199801230204.SAA17663@kithrup.com>  Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:28:08 -0700". <199801222028.NAA19088@harmony.village.org> <199801230340.UAA22987@harmony.village.org>
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>> Please bear in mind there is a good chance that it will be released
>> under a "for non-commercial use only" license, in which case it
>> won't be able to be on the freebsd cdrom.  Still.
> The press release said GPL.  It also said that binaries were free for
> OEMs to redistribute.

The press release said that it would be in the heratige of the GPL.
It did not say the license.

Best,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 23:32:03 1998
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Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
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>> Uh, no.  According to the press announcement, the source is going out
>> under the GPL.  They get the rights to see any new feature someone
>> comes up with and can't limit use of the source.  Should be free to use
>> with the *BSD/Linux/etc. CDs.
>> How they're going to deal with that and make the value added versions
>> worth paying for and not GPL'ed is going to be interesting.
> It is a promotional exercise.  They get 10000 hackers brains making 
> Netscape's browser the best in the world, and so corporations will 
> naturally go to Netscape for web and proxy servers etc.

This is the same sort of thing that created GCC, GDB, Emacs, and
FreeBSD.  And this is a Good Thing.  I'm just glad that Netscape
finally caught on to the idea.

> What I like about this announcement is that it necessarily becomes legal 
> to carry a Netscape mirror site (I hope!)

Before we get some confusion, let me make this clear: if you
distribute a modified source or any binary, you must have alongside it
the original sources.  But I can sell you a GNU dev tools CD-ROM with
the source on it, and my obligation is fulfilled.  I needn't even
offer to sell your friend the same CD.  Or I can bring up an FTP site
with the Emacs binaries, and have the Emacs source there in the same
directory, and even if my site is up for only a day, my obligation is
fulfilled.

My point is: one common point of confusion with the GPL is that a
redistributor must keep an FTP site with the source for three years,
and this is *not* the case.

Best,
joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Thu Jan 22 23:56:01 1998
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Subject: Re: wfd/zip ATAPI 
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:18:40 +1030
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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Just following up on my earlier posting.

> > I think WRITE-12 is better.
> > But, the LS-120 drive didn't work with WRITE-12.
> > So, I didn't use WRITE-12 on wfd driver.

The Linux IDE floppy driver offers READ/WRITE-12 as options, but 
doesn't appear to provide a mechanism for setting the option (probably 
just my ignorance).

> I have been wondering if there isn't some timing or size limitation 
> that we're hitting with the Zip; it's hard to be sure what it's really 
> unhappy about though.

And indeed, there is a comment in the Linux code to the effect that 
transfers of more than 64 sectors cause some drives to lock up.

I'll look at this tonight; any clever ideas for splitting a transfer 
up, or can I just specify D_NOCLUSTERRW for d_flags in the bdevsw?

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 00:06:13 1998
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From: spork <spork@super-g.com>
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To: David Dawes <dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
cc: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: New XFree86 release soon (was Re: xdm & login.conf limits.)
In-Reply-To: <19980123095511.41718@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
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Any pointers to what SuSE is?  Is this some subset of XFree?  Is the Mill
II driver better?

Thanks,

Charles Sprickman
spork@super-g.com
---- 
                           "I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man
                           Just a mortal with potential of a superman
                           I'm living on"      -DB

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, David Dawes wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 22, 1998 at 03:46:29PM -0700, Nate Williams wrote:
> >> BTW, we're likely to be making a new release soon primarily to update
> >> some drivers (probably called 3.3.2).
> >
> >Cool.  I hope you can use the stuff from S.U.S.E., in particular the
> >Matrox Mill-II version has been working well here with only one little
> >line in the right-hand side of my screen at the very center.  (I got the
> >FreeBSD version that Dirk made available.)
> 
> Yes, with the possible exception of one driver that wasn't present in 3.3.1,
> all the SuSE stuff will be in 3.3.2.
> 
> David
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 00:21:58 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: spork <spork@super-g.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, suse@suse.de
Subject: Re: New XFree86 release soon (was Re: xdm & login.conf limits.)
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On Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 03:05:49AM -0500, spork wrote:
> Any pointers to what SuSE is?  Is this some subset of XFree?  Is the Mill
> II driver better?

More correctly, it's S.u.S.E.  (suse@suse.de).  I think it stands for
"System- und SoftwareEntwicklung" (my capital E to make it obvious).
They're probably the biggest Linux distributor in Germany, and they do
a significant amount of development.

>From what I gather, they have developed some drivers for XFree86.
It's certainly not the most important thing they've done.

Greg


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 01:04:18 1998
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From: David Dawes <dawes@xfree86.org>
To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
Cc: spork <spork@super-g.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: New XFree86 release soon (was Re: xdm & login.conf limits.)
References: <19980123095511.41718@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> <Pine.BSF.3.96.980123030426.14250B-100000@super-g.inch.com> <19980123185147.33116@lemis.com>
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On Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 06:51:47PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote:
>On Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 03:05:49AM -0500, spork wrote:
>> Any pointers to what SuSE is?  Is this some subset of XFree?  Is the Mill
>> II driver better?
>
>More correctly, it's S.u.S.E.  (suse@suse.de).  I think it stands for
>"System- und SoftwareEntwicklung" (my capital E to make it obvious).
>They're probably the biggest Linux distributor in Germany, and they do
>a significant amount of development.
>
>From what I gather, they have developed some drivers for XFree86.
>It's certainly not the most important thing they've done.

They've contributed some people resources to XFree86, sponsored some
driver work for new hardware (which will be contributed back to XFree86),
and provided a mechanism for some XFree86 driver developers to make
interim releases that we (XFree86) don't have the resources to do.
The Matrox server they have is an example of the latter.

David

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 02:24:38 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:24:27 -0500 (EST)
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To: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.org>
cc: danny@panda.hilink.com.au, AdamT@smginc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
        sef@kithrup.com
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
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On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote:

My feeling is otherwise. If I was netscape i would do the exact same thing
to fight back and kick MS in the nadz, after the absolute PATHETIC ruling
of the DOJ which isnt worth a piss in a bucket!@#@!#!@$($% to remove the
IE *ICON* from the desktop!@#!@

ARGH@!#!@ I cannot even discuss that ruling without killing someone.

Needless to say and its already been said, netscape will not get a few
more thousand hackers beating on the code, and ramming a far superior
product down MS's throat.

And that works foe me!

Chris

--

===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting.
  FreeBSD 2.2.5 is available now!  | Phone: 316-326-6800
-----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152
   FreeBSD: The power to serve!    | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net
      http://www.freebsd.org       | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security
===================================| http://open-systems.net 

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From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 02:57:51 1998
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Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
References: <34C825ED@smginc.com> <199801230305.TAA19280@hub.freebsd.org>
From: Christoph Toshok <toshok@Hungry.COM>
Date: 23 Jan 1998 02:57:37 -0800
In-Reply-To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au's message of 22 Jan 1998 19:07:20 -0800
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avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) writes:
> 
> In some mail from Adam Turoff, sie said:
> > 
> > 
> > >Please bear in mind there is a good chance that it will be released   
> > under a
> > > "for non-commercial use only" license, in which case it won't be able   
> > to be on
> > > the freebsd cdrom.  Still.
> > 
> > Uh, no.  According to the press announcement, the source is going out
> > under the GPL.  They get the rights to see any new feature someone
> > comes up with and can't limit use of the source.  Should be free to use
> > with the *BSD/Linux/etc. CDs.
> 
> Not just that, but it will be possible to compile Netscape (finally!) for
> all those obscure ports such as hp300, etc.  No longer is FreeBSD required
> to use a BSDI compatible browser, etc.
> 

hmm.. it hasn't since 4.04 (actually a bit earlier..)

christoph

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 02:59:01 1998
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From: "Stefan Bethke" <stefan@promo.de>
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Subject: Re: New XFree86 release soon (was Re: xdm & login.conf limits.)
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--On Fre, 23. Jan 1998 3:05 Uhr -0500 spork <spork@super-g.com> wrote: 

> Any pointers to what SuSE is?  Is this some subset of XFree?  Is the Mill
> II driver better?

A German Linux distributor. See http://www.suse.com/


--
Stefan Bethke
Promo Datentechnik      |  Tel. +49-40-851744-18
+ Systemberatung GmbH   |  Fax. +49-40-851744-44
Eduardstrasse 46-48     |  e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE
D-20257 Hamburg         |  http://www.Promo.DE/


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 03:18:48 1998
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> look at /sys/i386/isa/snd/dmabuf.c how i handle a circular buffer.

Ok, I gave it a look. I'm still not completely sure about what I should do
in some situations. Please excuse me if I sound asleep, that's the way I
feel actually. In fact, I'm pretty much sure I must be sleepwalking. :-)

Ok, so here is the deal. Since this is an encryption card, what I do is
write each character to the card and then read the encrypted character
back. So, write() writes the data to a circular buffer, and read() reads
from a circular buffer.

I'm using a single circular buffer, with three pointers: last character
written (+1), first character to be read, and next character to be
encrypted/decrypted. Write() is very simple, indeed. After writing data to
the buffer, it timeout()s a function which will be doing the conversion.

The read() function is the source of most of my doubts.

As long as enough data has been written to the buffer, the read() function
will wait until the function doing the conversion (crypt()) en/decrypts
enough characters.

So, read() is tsleeping on PZERO priority, so crypt() can be called. Now,
there is a few race windows. First, if read() and write() are called
simultaneously and one of them preempts the other, there might be a race
window. I don't know if one of them can preempt another or not. Another
race window happens between read() and crypt(). That one seems easier to
get rid of, but spl0() is not what I want, since I cannot splx() after
that. It seems splsoft*() is what I want, but I don't know which.
Splitting read and write buffers would eliminate the race between read()
and write(), and introduce a race between write() and crypt(), which may be
helpful.

Anyone wants to enlight me?

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 03:25:26 1998
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> I don't get your point about races. Once you are in the kernel you
> cannot have preemption unless you get an interrupt.

Yeah (well, kind of yeah), but... What about SMP? What about a process in
one processor calling read() while a process in another processor calls
write()?

> If you want to avoid this, protect the critical section of code between

Yup. The kind of interruption I may get is from timeout(9). But I can't do
s = spl0(), because spl0() "returns" void.

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 03:36:04 1998
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In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:19:04 -0300."
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> 
> Ok, so here is the deal. Since this is an encryption card, what I do is
> write each character to the card and then read the encrypted character
> back. So, write() writes the data to a circular buffer, and read() reads
> from a circular buffer.

Er.  Why do it that way?  I presume that you are passed a pointer to a 
linear region containing "plaintext", and your task is to convert it 
into "ciphertext".  Am I close?

If not, then I assume that you have separate write and read interfaces. 
Can the card only handle one character at a time?  How slow is it
handling a character/block?

> I'm using a single circular buffer, with three pointers: last character
> written (+1), first character to be read, and next character to be
> encrypted/decrypted. Write() is very simple, indeed. After writing data to
> the buffer, it timeout()s a function which will be doing the conversion.

Do you (plan to) handle more than one writer at a time?  Do you 
synchronise writers and readers?

> So, read() is tsleeping on PZERO priority, so crypt() can be called. Now,
> there is a few race windows. First, if read() and write() are called
> simultaneously and one of them preempts the other, there might be a race
> window. I don't know if one of them can preempt another or not.

Your calls won't be preempted unless another is called from an 
interrupt context.

> Another
> race window happens between read() and crypt(). That one seems easier to
> get rid of, but spl0() is not what I want, since I cannot splx() after
> that. It seems splsoft*() is what I want, but I don't know which.

splsoftclock() is probably the one you want.

> Splitting read and write buffers would eliminate the race between read()
> and write(), and introduce a race between write() and crypt(), which may be
> helpful.
> 
> Anyone wants to enlight me?

TBH, I would suggest that a "work queue" approach would be a more 
efficient way to go, but this presumes on a single crypt() call rather 
than seperate read/write calls.  With split calls, it becomes difficult 
to guarantee synchronisation between multiple callers.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 03:51:11 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:50:32 +1100
From: David Dawes <dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
To: Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: New XFree86 release soon (was Re: xdm & login.conf limits.)
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On Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 11:17:32AM +0100, Mikael Karpberg wrote:
>According to David Dawes:
>> >Cool.  I hope you can use the stuff from S.U.S.E., in particular the
>> >Matrox Mill-II version has been working well here with only one little
>> >line in the right-hand side of my screen at the very center.  (I got the
>> >FreeBSD version that Dirk made available.)
>> 
>> Yes, with the possible exception of one driver that wasn't present in 3.3.1,
>> all the SuSE stuff will be in 3.3.2.
>
>I have a Winfast 2300 card right now, which I'm testing, and it only runs
>with the VGA server, which is a bit annoying. And the S.u.S.e team only have
>Linux elf binaries, which uses stuff in the linux emulator which is not
>implemented yet. :-(  This has inspired me to try to get the linux version
>running, so I might be looking into doing some patches for the linux emu,
>unless it ends up TOO much work.

Yeah, they don't have a FreeBSD binary for that one.  I'm not sure why.

>I know you're probably sick of answering these kinda of questions, but it's
>rather important for me, as I need to know if I can buy this card. VGA server
>is not a tempting working enviroment. So...
>
>1)  Do you know if that realease will include the permedia2 support?

It won't.  My understanding is that there are some NDA issues that need
to be resolved before it can be included in full release.

>2)  Also, how soon is it to be released, approx? One week? three weeks?
>    two month? a year? :-)

The plan is about 6-8 weeks.  No guarantees though.

David

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 03:55:31 1998
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> Er.  Why do it that way?  I presume that you are passed
> a pointer to a linear region containing "plaintext", and
> your task is to convert it into "ciphertext".  Am I
> close?

> If not, then I assume that you have separate write and
> read interfaces.

Yep, I'm using separate read and write interfaces.

> Can the card only handle one character at a time?  How
> slow is it handling a character/block?

The card has single character and eight characters modes, but it is
terribly slow in either mode. If I block everything until I finish the
operation, I can gain about 20% in the 8 characters mode (which still must
be feed one by one). As it is, both modes are taking almost the same time
to process. The main problem is that I don't have a precise definition of
how much time each operation takes. I only know some operations take up to
a second to complete. The 512 bytes buffer I used to test the driver
currently takes me 21 seconds to be processed, a reasonable amount of this
time, it seems, taken by context switches. I plan to reduce it further
using wakeup instead of 1 tick tsleeps (as I'm doing right now).

> Do you (plan to) handle more than one writer at a time?  Do
> you synchronise writers and readers?

The card is too stupid to handle multiple readers/writers (though I only
realised that, and simplified the driver, after someone asked me how I
saved context from stream to stream). I only accept one open() at a time.

> Your calls won't be preempted unless another is called from an
> interrupt context.

What about SMP?

> splsoftclock() is probably the one you want.

Thanks. Still, I'd really appreciate knowing the difference between
splsoftclock and splsofttty...

> TBH, I would suggest that a "work queue" approach would be a
> more efficient way to go, but this presumes on a single
> crypt() call rather than seperate read/write calls.  With
> split calls, it becomes difficult to guarantee
> synchronisation between multiple callers.

A working queue was my first take on this, but since, as it is, it will
gain me nothing, I decided on my current model.

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 04:19:35 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199801231047.LAA02217@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: uiomove()
To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:47:42 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > I don't get your point about races. Once you are in the kernel you
> > cannot have preemption unless you get an interrupt.
> 
> Yeah (well, kind of yeah), but... What about SMP? What about a process in
> one processor calling read() while a process in another processor calls
> write()?

not sure, but I think in our SMP implementation only one process
can be in the kernel at each time, isn't it ? Too much of the
existing code assumes that, and it would have been impossible to
fix everything to have SMP running.

	Cheers
	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 04:27:48 1998
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To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: uiomove() 
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> 
> > Er.  Why do it that way?  I presume that you are passed
> > a pointer to a linear region containing "plaintext", and
> > your task is to convert it into "ciphertext".  Am I
> > close?
> 
> > If not, then I assume that you have separate write and
> > read interfaces.
> 
> Yep, I'm using separate read and write interfaces.

Do you have to do this?  Are all your consumers in the kernel?

> > Can the card only handle one character at a time?  How
> > slow is it handling a character/block?
> 
> The card has single character and eight characters modes, but it is
> terribly slow in either mode. If I block everything until I finish the
> operation, I can gain about 20% in the 8 characters mode (which still must
> be feed one by one). As it is, both modes are taking almost the same time
> to process. The main problem is that I don't have a precise definition of
> how much time each operation takes. I only know some operations take up to
> a second to complete. The 512 bytes buffer I used to test the driver
> currently takes me 21 seconds to be processed, a reasonable amount of this
> time, it seems, taken by context switches. I plan to reduce it further
> using wakeup instead of 1 tick tsleeps (as I'm doing right now).

You could use an exponential backoff, or a weighted hunting heuristic.  
I would be inclined to try to gather some data on the average 
performance of the card in order to improve such a computation.

> > Do you (plan to) handle more than one writer at a time?  Do
> > you synchronise writers and readers?
> 
> The card is too stupid to handle multiple readers/writers (though I only
> realised that, and simplified the driver, after someone asked me how I
> saved context from stream to stream). I only accept one open() at a time.

I think that was me.  8)  Only accepting one open won't save you from 
multiple writers.  (Think about fd inheritance from parent to child.)

If you only support one stream at a time, there is no requirement to 
synchronise your input or output at all. I would do something like this:


#define CRYPT_CHUNK	64

struct crypt_softc
{
	char	waiting[CRYPT_CHUNK];
	int	nwaiting;
	char	done[CRYPT_CHUNK];
	int	ndone;
	int	flags
#define C_READBUSY	(1<<0)
};

crypt_write(...)
{
	int	s, result, hmuch;
	struct crypt_softc *sc = ...

	while (uio->uio_resid > 0) {	
		s = splsoftclock();
		while (sc->nwaiting > 0) {
			tsleep(&sc->nwaiting, PCATCH, "cryptwrite", 0)
		}
		splx(s);
		hmuch = min(uio->uio_resid, CRYPT_CHUNK);	
		result = uiomove(sc->waiting, hmuch, uio);
		if (result)
			return(result);
		sc->nwaiting = hmuch;
	}
	return(0);
}

crypt_read(...)
{
	struct crypt_softc *sc = ...
	int	s, result;

	while (uio->uio_resid > 0) {
		s = splsoftclock();
		while (sc->nready == 0) {
			tsleep(&sc->nready, PCATCH, "cryptread", 0);
		}
		splx(s);
		sc->flags |= C_READBUSY;
		hmuch = min(uio->uio_resid, sc->nready);
		result = uiomove(sc->ready, hmuch, uio);
		if (!result && (hmuch < sc->nready))
			bcopy(sc->ready + hmuch, sc->ready, 
				sc->nready - hmuch);
		sc->nready -= hmuch;
		sc->flags &= ~C_READBUSY;
		if (result)
			return(result);
	}
	return(0);
}

crypt_timeout(...)
{
	struct crypt_softc *sc = ...

	if (crypt_card_ready_for_input()) {
		if (sc->nwaiting == 0)
			wakeup(&sc->nwaiting);
		else
			crypt_stuff_data_from_waitlist()
	}
	if (crypt_card_has_data()) {
		if (!(sc->flags & C_READBUSY) && (sc->nready < CRYPT_CHUNK)) {
			crypt_get_data_from_card()
			wakeup(&sc->nready)
		}
	}
	timeout(crypt_timeout, ...)
}
}

> > Your calls won't be preempted unless another is called from an
> > interrupt context.
> 
> What about SMP?

Device drivers are currently exclusive.  If you're really worried 
about SMP, ask the SMP people about how to obtain a lock and wait 
against one.  

> > splsoftclock() is probably the one you want.
> 
> Thanks. Still, I'd really appreciate knowing the difference between
> splsoftclock and splsofttty...

splsoftty() prevents soft tty interrupts (timeouts used for tty 
processing).  splsoftclock() prevents software clock (timer) interrupts.

> A working queue was my first take on this, but since, as it is, it will
> gain me nothing, I decided on my current model.

Fair enough.
-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 04:45:53 1998
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To: <daniel_sobral@voga.com.br>, <mike@smith.net.au>
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Subject: Re: uiomove()
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:39:53 -0500
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I'm hoping i don't get yelled at here, but why not queue all subsequent
open operations and block those processes operations on the device?
at least until a read is done?

what's the point of an encryption card if you can't have multiple processes
acesses it, at least "transparently" in parrallel?

-Alfred

> The card is too stupid to handle multiple readers/writers (though I only
> realised that, and simplified the driver, after someone asked me how I
> saved context from stream to stream). I only accept one open() at a time.
> 
> > Your calls won't be preempted unless another is called from an
> > interrupt context.
> 
> What about SMP?
> 
> > splsoftclock() is probably the one you want.
> 
> Thanks. Still, I'd really appreciate knowing the difference between
> splsoftclock and splsofttty...
> 
> > TBH, I would suggest that a "work queue" approach would be a
> > more efficient way to go, but this presumes on a single
> > crypt() call rather than seperate read/write calls.  With
> > split calls, it becomes difficult to guarantee
> > synchronisation between multiple callers.
> 
> A working queue was my first take on this, but since, as it is, it will
> gain me nothing, I decided on my current model.
> 
> --
> Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
> Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br
> 
> 
> Tagline:
>    * FreeBSD. Earth.
> 
> 

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 04:47:47 1998
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> Too much of the existing code assumes that, and it
> would have been impossible to fix everything to
> have SMP running.

Well... kernel experts, what stance should I take?

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 04:54:10 1998
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Subject: Re: uiomove() 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:39:53 CDT."
             <199801230845.IAA11935@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> 
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> I'm hoping i don't get yelled at here, but why not queue all subsequent
> open operations and block those processes operations on the device?
> at least until a read is done?

This doesn't necessarily help; if a process holding an open descriptor 
on your device forks, there are now two processes holding open 
descriptors but there has been no second open() call.  This has been 
discussed to death.

> what's the point of an encryption card if you can't have multiple processes
> acesses it, at least "transparently" in parrallel?

I dunno, but the card in question performs stream, not block 
encryption, and there is no mechanism (that Daniel seems to know of 
anyway) to recover context from the card to allow switching streams.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 04:57:32 1998
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> > Yeah (well, kind of yeah), but... What about SMP? What about a process in
> > one processor calling read() while a process in another processor calls
> > write()?
> 
> not sure, but I think in our SMP implementation only one process
> can be in the kernel at each time, isn't it ? Too much of the
> existing code assumes that, and it would have been impossible to
> fix everything to have SMP running.

This is no longer true.  The SMP people started with a single "monster 
lock" as you describe.  This is the traditional starting point, as it 
reduces the amount of work required to begin with.

>From there, there have been several rounds of lock "push downs", where 
parts of the kernel are made SMP-aware.  At this point in time, drivers 
are still below a single lock, and are likely to remain there for some 
time. 8)

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 05:11:35 1998
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> > what's the point of an encryption card if you can't
> > have multiple processes > acesses it, at least
> > "transparently" in parrallel?

> I dunno,

File encryption. The card will be part of multiple level of encryptions (I
know, this doesn't increase security, but it wasn't my idea).

> but the card in question performs stream, not block
> encryption, and there is no mechanism (that Daniel
> seems to know of anyway) to recover context from
> the card to allow switching streams.

There is no way at all. My questions on the device go directly to the
people that created it. As well as my recommendations for their next
project... :-)

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 05:51:17 1998
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From: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@sunyit.edu>
To: "Mike Smith" <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: <daniel_sobral@voga.com.br>, <mike@smith.net.au>, <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: uiomove() 
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:43:07 -0500
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> > I'm hoping i don't get yelled at here, but why not queue all subsequent
> > open operations and block those processes operations on the device?
> > at least until a read is done?
> This doesn't necessarily help; if a process holding an open descriptor 
> on your device forks, there are now two processes holding open 
> descriptors but there has been no second open() call.  This has been 
> discussed to death.
ooops :)

> > what's the point of an encryption card if you can't have multiple
processes
> > acesses it, at least "transparently" in parrallel?
> I dunno, but the card in question performs stream, not block 
> encryption, and there is no mechanism (that Daniel seems to know of 
> anyway) to recover context from the card to allow switching streams.
is this a "Fred's(tm) encryption card"? :)

-Alfred


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 06:10:13 1998
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> > Yep, I'm using separate read and write interfaces.

> Do you have to do this?  Are all your consumers in
> the kernel?

No, none of my consumers are in the kernel at the present moment, in fact.
I decided that if they (the people who asked me to write the driver) wanted
to access it from the kernel, they would use the cdevsw interface, and
provide the process context needed. At the present, they don't need it
enough to either provide a process context nor require me to write it their
way... :-)

I'm using the read()/write() interface because it was there... :-) Anyway,
they could have separate processes to read and write, and it really doesn't
give me much trouble to let them do it.

> You could use an exponential backoff,

I thought of that. Just not pursued as yet. This would fall under the
"optimization" category, and, though the driver already works, I'm
currently trying to remove the bugs I know of, so I can say "it's ready".

> I would be inclined to try to gather some data on the average
> performance of the card in order to improve such a computation.

I did some of that for the encryption/decryption. I know already that
having DELAYs of 10ms for the 8 character mode, and 20ms for the 1
character mode, here and there helps. I'm not sure which are required,
which are optional, and I don't know which would require more than 50ms
(the highest delay I tried as yet). The other functions supported by the
driver/device are too many and, compared to the time taken by
encryption/decryption, not worth trouble.

> I think that was me.  8)

Yeah, I think so too. Just not sure... :-) Actually, I was not asked for
multiple stream support, but, since I decided to do it right anyway...
until I realised I couldn't. :-)

> Only accepting one open won't save you from multiple
> writers.  (Think about fd inheritance from parent to
> child.)

I thought. That was one of the reasons I decided on a read()/write()
interface instead of a single crypt() one. The thing is... it's a character
device. So, one open, one stream. They may have multiple processes with fds
to it, but all from a single open. If they are dumb enough to treat it as
multiple streams, well, they deserve whatever they get. :-) I even thought
of calling something on at_fork, but decided on a KISS stance instead. If
it is in the man page, it's documented enough.

> If you only support one stream at a time, there is no requirement
> to synchronise your input or output at all. I would do something
> like this:


> s = splsoftclock();
> while (sc->nwaiting > 0) {
>    tsleep(&sc->nwaiting, PCATCH, "cryptwrite", 0)
> }
> splx(s);

I have seen code like this elsewhere... tell me, won't crypt_timeout() be
blocked by splsoftclock() during the tsleep()? (The answer seems to be
"obviously, no", but I'd rather be sure than obvious. :)

Also, since you do splsoftclock(), wouldn't a PRISOFTCLOCK (if there is
such a beast) be reasonable as a parameter to tsleep()?

Also, isn't "cryptwrite" too big for tsleep()... :-) :-)

Anyway, that's about what I have, except that you use two buffers, I use
one, and you use fixed-sized chunks, where I use whatever the user
requests. I don't have a wakeup() right now, but that has been in my plans
for two days now... :-)

I may end up using your hmuch trick, though.

> Device drivers are currently exclusive.  If you're really worried
> about SMP, ask the SMP people about how to obtain a lock and wait
> against one.

Well, done (sent a message to -smp). Let's see what they say.

> splsoftty() prevents soft tty interrupts (timeouts used for tty
processing).
> splsoftclock() prevents software clock (timer) interrupts.

So... timeout(9) is blocked by splsoftclock(), and splsofttty() may or may
not block timeout(9) (probably "may"), but do block other kinds of timeouts
I have not seen (because I have read much of tty code) which are used by
tty?

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 06:12:44 1998
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> is this a "Fred's(tm) encryption card"? :)

Most probably, it doesn't let you retrieve stream information to help keep
the algorithm secret. They may not think security can be gained by
obscurity, but they certainly think it helps.

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 06:24:34 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:22:58 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: Alex Belits <abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us>
Cc: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>,
        Open Systems Networking <opsys@mail.webspan.net>, marcs@znep.com,
        imp@village.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
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On Thu, Jan 22, 1998 at 11:28:08PM -0800, Alex Belits wrote:
> > I expect them to retain editorial control on the "official releases".
> > This is, in fact, only slightly more restricted than GPL, wherein the
> > GPL code is maintained by a central repository.  Cygnus proved that
> > there is room for one (and *only* one) editorial source per GPL style
> > product.
> 
>   Emacs - XEmacs - Mule (ok, last one is now going to merge with every of
> first two). And while not the most stable thing in the world, pgcc exists,
> as a separate gcc branch.

For the emacs side of this: I don't think this has led to much good.
It's just leading to more and more problems for developers and users
alike.  The presence of XEmacs has made some things enter FSF Emacs in
a very rushed fashion, MULE being a good example of how badly that can
turn out (the code is just hacked all through Emacs, with a
significant slowdown as a result, and no way to disable it.  In
XEmacs, it is supposedly maintained as a 'clean cut')

Eivind.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 06:40:01 1998
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Subject: Re: New XFree86 release soon (was Re: xdm & login.conf limits.)
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	<Pine.BSF.3.96.980123030426.14250B-100000@super-g.inch.com>
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> Any pointers to what SuSE is?  Is this some subset of XFree?  Is the Mill
> II driver better?

www.suse.com, sort of, and yes.


Nate

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 06:58:49 1998
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Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.980123133010.29251E-100000@panda.hilink.com.au> from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Jan 23, 98 01:32:39 pm"
To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:58:39 -0800 (PST)
Cc: AdamT@smginc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sef@kithrup.com
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Daniel O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Adam Turoff wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Uh, no.  According to the press announcement, the source is going out
> > under the GPL.  They get the rights to see any new feature someone
> > comes up with and can't limit use of the source.  Should be free to use
> > with the *BSD/Linux/etc. CDs.
> > 
> > How they're going to deal with that and make the value added versions
> > worth paying for and not GPL'ed is going to be interesting.
> 
> It is a promotional exercise.  They get 10000 hackers brains making 
> Netscape's browser the best in the world, and so corporations will 
> naturally go to Netscape for web and proxy servers etc.  
> 
> What I like about this announcement is that it necessarily becomes legal 
> to carry a Netscape mirror site (I hope!)

	security will be the big win here.

	even without source code people have devoted time and energy
	to finding bugs in the java virtual machine.  with source code
	available and a commitment to implement fixes, security will be
	greatly enhanced.  

	corporations and financial institutions will find this 
	very attractive.   to counter, microsoft would have to create
	a high quality product.....something the "regents of reboot"
	have never done.  
jmb

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 07:04:35 1998
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Subject: Re: uiomove() 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:09:19 -0300."
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> > If you only support one stream at a time, there is no requirement
> > to synchronise your input or output at all. I would do something
> > like this:
> 
> > s = splsoftclock();
> > while (sc->nwaiting > 0) {
> >    tsleep(&sc->nwaiting, PCATCH, "cryptwrite", 0)
> > }
> > splx(s);
> 
> I have seen code like this elsewhere... tell me, won't crypt_timeout() be
> blocked by splsoftclock() during the tsleep()? (The answer seems to be
> "obviously, no", but I'd rather be sure than obvious. :)

"Obviously, no"  8)  tsleep() puts your current context to sleep, and 
selects a new one to run.  It also preserves the calling spl and 
restores the spl for the new context.

This lets you avoid the race condition between the test and the sleep.

> Also, since you do splsoftclock(), wouldn't a PRISOFTCLOCK (if there is
> such a beast) be reasonable as a parameter to tsleep()?

If there is, sure.

> Also, isn't "cryptwrite" too big for tsleep()... :-) :-)

Dunno.  Its certainly too big for ps et al.

> I may end up using your hmuch trick, though.

There are a few other things I left out, particularly the correct 
handling of returns from tsleep() when PCATCH is specified.

> > splsoftty() prevents soft tty interrupts (timeouts used for tty
> processing).
> > splsoftclock() prevents software clock (timer) interrupts.
> 
> So... timeout(9) is blocked by splsoftclock(), and splsofttty() may or may
> not block timeout(9) (probably "may"), but do block other kinds of timeouts
> I have not seen (because I have read much of tty code) which are used by
> tty?

splsoftty() can only be expected to block soft tty interrupts.  These 
are the soft interrupts that move things through the tty subsystem.

I'm not sure I can parse the rest of your question though.  
-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 07:05:55 1998
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 23 Jan 1998 16:05:46 +0100
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Any plans for adding native IPv6 support to FreeBSD? It would seem
that NetBSD already has such support, and I've been told there are
some third-party drivers for FreeBSD.

-- 
 * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
  RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 07:27:07 1998
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Free netscape - good or bad ?
To: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG (Jonathan M. Bresler)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:14:32 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: danny@panda.hilink.com.au, AdamT@smginc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
        sef@kithrup.com
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In some mail from Jonathan M. Bresler, sie said:
> 
> 	even without source code people have devoted time and energy
> 	to finding bugs in the java virtual machine.  with source code
> 	available and a commitment to implement fixes, security will be
> 	greatly enhanced.  
> 
> 	corporations and financial institutions will find this 
> 	very attractive.   to counter, microsoft would have to create
> 	a high quality product.....something the "regents of reboot"
> 	have never done.  

I beg to differ.  If Netscape no longer participate in the product,
then that is good for Microsoft - the Netscape browser becomes yet
another shareware/freeware product with no real support, etc.

Granted not everyone thinks like that but some people DO.

Darren

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 07:39:16 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199801231407.PAA02597@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: New snap of sound code
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG
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A new snap of the sound code is available at

	http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/FreeBSD.html or
	http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/snd980123.tgz

This version fixes some major bugs which I introduced lately in
SBPro/SB16 support. It also works (to some extent) with ESS chips
(I need feedback on them -- I only have one ESS1868 card).
WSS support should be essentially unmodified.
I have also made the driver less verbose.

As usual, feedback and bug reports are appreciated.

Please note that, due to some network rearrangement, the above server
might be offline for some time next week.

	Cheers
	Luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 07:58:09 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:57:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Dennis Tenn <dstenn@fanfic.org>
To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: New snap of sound code
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On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote:

| A new snap of the sound code is available at
| 
| 	http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/FreeBSD.html or
| 	http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/snd980123.tgz
| 
| This version fixes some major bugs which I introduced lately in
| SBPro/SB16 support. It also works (to some extent) with ESS chips
| (I need feedback on them -- I only have one ESS1868 card).
| WSS support should be essentially unmodified.
| I have also made the driver less verbose.
| 
| As usual, feedback and bug reports are appreciated.
| 
| Please note that, due to some network rearrangement, the above server
| might be offline for some time next week.

Luigi.

Will there be any work re:AWE PnP autodetect code?  I love the fact that
it works but I was wondering if there will be anything done to the code
that will make it unnecessary for us to manually enter kernel config mode
to enable the card.  Just a thought.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
   Dennis Tenn       *   There will always come a time
   dstenn@fanfic.org   *   When your love will be tested
                         *   Stand tall and rise to the occasion
                           *   For only then will you grow strong.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 07:59:35 1998
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From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
Message-Id: <199801231558.HAA13342@hub.freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ?
In-Reply-To: <199801231527.HAA10770@hub.freebsd.org> from Darren Reed at "Jan 24, 98 02:14:32 am"
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:58:08 -0800 (PST)
Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, danny@panda.hilink.com.au, AdamT@smginc.com,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sef@kithrup.com
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Darren Reed wrote:
> In some mail from Jonathan M. Bresler, sie said:
> > 
> > 	even without source code people have devoted time and energy
> > 	to finding bugs in the java virtual machine.  with source code
> > 	available and a commitment to implement fixes, security will be
> > 	greatly enhanced.  
> > 
> > 	corporations and financial institutions will find this 
> > 	very attractive.   to counter, microsoft would have to create
> > 	a high quality product.....something the "regents of reboot"
> > 	have never done.  
> 
> I beg to differ.  If Netscape no longer participate in the product,
> then that is good for Microsoft - the Netscape browser becomes yet
> another shareware/freeware product with no real support, etc.

	"If Netscape no longer participate".....

	Netscape will have a very active hand in the product.
	my prediction ;)
jmb

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 08:00:22 1998
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Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ?
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+-----[ Darren Reed ]------------------------------
| 
| In some mail from Jonathan M. Bresler, sie said:
| > 
| > 	corporations and financial institutions will find this 
| > 	very attractive.   to counter, microsoft would have to create
| > 	a high quality product.....something the "regents of reboot"
| > 	have never done.  
| 
| I beg to differ.  If Netscape no longer participate in the product,
| then that is good for Microsoft - the Netscape browser becomes yet
| another shareware/freeware product with no real support, etc.
| 
| Granted not everyone thinks like that but some people DO.

Solaris is under the similar type of licence at the moment now is it not?
You can get full source code for Solaris if you're an educational 
institution. They were hoping to get bug-fixes etc sent back to them
so that they could determine which they would add into the final
product.

I would assume that Netscape would still make "official" releases of
Netscape, with a "Best Of" the fixes/patches/enhancements.


-- 
  ,-_|\  SneakerNet       |     Andrew Milton    |    GSM: +61(41)6 022 411
 /     \ P.O. Box 154     |  akm@sneaker.net.au  |    Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233
 \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233
      v  NSW 2137      | Low cost Internet Solutions |

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 08:33:35 1998
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Organization: Glenayre Electronics, Inc.
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To: Ben Lai <belai@cisco.com>
CC: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>, David Dawes <dawes@XFree86.org>,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: New XFree86 release soon (was Re: xdm & login.conf limits.)
References: <199801221647.LAA12905@tbuswell.ne.mediaone.net>
			<11381.885487881@time.cdrom.com>
			<19980123093227.09741@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> <199801222246.PAA18358@mt.sri.com> <34C7CF5D.D6CBD740@cisco.com>
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Ben Lai wrote:
> 
> Anyone knows that does XFree86 releases the Xserver for 3Dlab permidia
> II chip?  Or any other organizatios make this kind of Xserver?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ben

Ditto, we need this one here too.  It seems that Gateway is shipping their Pentium II
systems with this board.

Cheers,

Jerry Hicks
jhicks@atlanta.glenayre.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 08:36:21 1998
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From: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
To: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
cc: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@FreeBSD.ORG, pst@juniper.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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st does not have block devices

On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Bruce Evans wrote:
> This would break at least backups to SCSI tape devices, since st has both
> block and character devices, but tapes aren't disks.  Perhaps the broken
> version is correct - isdisk() really means isasecurityholeifmountable().


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 08:37:09 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:15:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
To: Paul Traina <pst@juniper.net>
cc: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, dg@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Paul Traina wrote:

> I was looking at isdisk and wanted to hurl chunks.  

If DEVFS becomes accepeted then this all changes, as all disk accesses go
through the same driver no matter what physical device type.  Thedisk type
interface is abstracted to a common module which handles such things as
acceses, partitionning, open semantics, and IO remapping, on behalf of the
lower level drivers, which know how to do nothing except read and write
blocks. 


> 
> This is used by spec_open to determine if we should be allowed to open a
> disk device when securelevel >= 1.
> 
> I'd like to propose changing spec_open to simply NEVER allowing the open of
> a block device, or character device, if a character device has a block
> device associated with it and eliminate isdisk() in kern_conf entirely.
> 
> Objections?  (p.s. I found this in 2.2.5, haven't checked 3.0 yet to see if
> it was fixed, if it was, sorry for bothering you).
> 

Some things have changed but bigger changes are on the horizon.




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 08:59:30 1998
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Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au> writes:
> I beg to differ.  If Netscape no longer participate in the product,
> then that is good for Microsoft - the Netscape browser becomes yet
> another shareware/freeware product with no real support, etc.

Pardon my language, but that is complete bullshit. Allow me to quote
from the press release which you obviously did not read: "This
aggressive move will enable Netscape to harness the creative power of
thousands of programmers on the Internet by incorporating their best
enhancements into future versions of Netscape's software."

-- 
 * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
  RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 09:01:50 1998
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From: Hans Petter Bieker <hanspb@persbraten.vgs.no>
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Ted Buswell wrote:

> incorporation in future releases.

I think xdm should use login.conf when setting env variables. The current
patch doesn't. I made a hack some months ago that fixes this (it a hack,
nothing more.)

-bieker-


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 09:06:33 1998
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To: Jonathan Mini <j_mini@efn.org>
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Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: One-floppy FreBSD + rich networking
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Jonathan Mini wrote:

>   My /etc/rc.local script (of course) builds a new /var filesystem on every
> reboot, but it works great.

YOu'll have to build this file system a bit earlier. /etc/rc wants to
write some files to /var just after it starts.

-bieker-


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 10:12:16 1998
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From: Garance A Drosehn <gad@mlor.its.rpi.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 13:16:37 -0500
To: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ?
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au> wrote:
> In some mail from Jonathan M. Bresler, sie said:
> >
> >       even without source code people have devoted time and
> >       energy to finding bugs in the java virtual machine.  with
> >       source code available and a commitment to implement fixes,
> >       security will be greatly enhanced.
>
> I beg to differ.  If Netscape no longer participates in the
> product, then that is good for Microsoft - the Netscape browser
> becomes yet another shareware/freeware product with no real
> support, etc.

Netscape is not abandoning the product, they are merely making the
source code available to interested parties.

Netscape claims that making the source code available will let them
"harness the creative power of thousands of programmers on the
internet by incorporating their best enhancements into future
versions of Netscape's software".  That comment wouldn't even make
sense unless Netscape is still "participating" in the product.

I think it's a good move for Netscape.  And to keep this somewhat
relevent to the hackers mailing list, it will be certainly a good
move for netscape on FreeBSD...   :-)

---
Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer        (MIME & NeXTmail capable)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 10:53:00 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:52:22 -0600 (CST)
From: "Lee Crites (AEI)" <leec@adam.adonai.net>
To: Stephen Roome <steve@visint.co.uk>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box... 
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Stephen Roome wrote:

=>> So I'd bet NT saw all of the memory *and* was able to use it.  We
=>> just couldn't.
=>
=>Perhaps a more reasonable explanation would be that the NT
=>kernel and most of the NT applications are such huge bloated
=>pieces of software suffering so much freeping creaturism that
=>well over half the memory that they have allocated for
=>themselves is unnessary, not used and therefore if the data
=>stored in it gets corrupted it doesn't matter and hence it
=>doesn't crash. (at least not for that reason anyway!)
=>
=>[Still I'd not have considered NT as either a competitor for
=>FreeBSD, and illustrious must surely be sarcasm!]

The entire NT reference was sarcasm!  I'd rather use DOS than
windoze! ;)  Of course, I'd rather use FreeBSD than either!


=>> My first FreeBSD box was a converted NT (3.xx) box which labored
=>> under only 8 users.  Under fbsd I tested a max of 70+ users. 
=>> (p200/128meg for those who care). 
=>
=>That's overkill, you must live somewhere hardware is cheap!

This is what I was told was needed for a windoze nt box running
an isp with 8 dial-up lines.  It was a copy of a machine I saw at
an operating isp which ran like your average windoze box (read:
like a dog).  Actually, that's a lie.  The isp box was, if I
recall, a p133.  I figured my p200 would make it acceptable...

And, no, the hardware *wasn't* cheap!  It is now, but wasn't
then...

Lee


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 11:29:41 1998
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> There are a few other things I left out, particularly the correct
> handling of returns from tsleep() when PCATCH is specified.

Yup... I forgot to bother you about that... Currently, I'm not PCATCHing
and what the hell, but I intend to be more politically correct. I just have
not figured exactly what I'm supposed to do at ERESTART.

--
Daniel C. Sobral                      (8-DCS)
Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br


Tagline:
   * FreeBSD. Earth.



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 11:41:49 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:45:41 -0600
To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Alejandro Galindo <agalindo@servidor.exsocom.com.mx>
Subject: Modem Speed in ttys and gettytab  files
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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        1 Year ago i try to configure the modem speed in the gettytab and
ttys files for dialin, i only can use the std.19200 and it works well, i see
in the pppkit a configuration with std.38400, std.57600 and std.115200, but
when a user conect to my server he only see bad characters (not the login
prompt) i try with several modems (motorola 33.6, etc. now we have the
motorola 57.6 ModemSurfer) but i can't work with a configuration major than
std.19200.

Can you indicate me how configure the gettytab for a std.115200, std.57600
and std.38400? and this number (115200) what do it mean? is the speed betwen
the serial port and the modem?

I have a 2.2.5 RELEASE and a Cyclades Cyclom-Y multiport (it support 115200
i think).

thanks in advanced

Saludos
Alejandro
 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                          ,        ,        |
|                                                         /(        )`       |
|                                                         \ \___   / |       |
|                                                         /- _  `-/  '       |
|                                                        (/\/ \ \   /\       |
|     ExSoCom Dgo. MEXICO                                / /   | `    \      |
|                                                        O O   ) /    |      |
|                                                        `-^--'`<     '      |
|                                                       (_.)  _  )   /       |
|     Alejandro Galindo Chairez                          `.___/`    /        |
|     Tel: (18) 179177                                     `-----' /         |
|     Fax: (18) 179177                        <----.     __ / __   \         |
|                                             <----|====O)))==) \) /====     |
|    e-mail alejandro.galindo@exsocom.com.mx  <----'    `--' `.__,' \        |
|                                                          |        |        |
|          http://www.exsocom.com.mx                       \       /       /\|
|                                                     ______( (_  / \______/ |
|                                                   ,'  ,-----'   |          |
|                      a FreeBSD user               `--{__________)          |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 13:52:34 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:52:13 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: egcs and exceptions
In-Reply-To: <199801230616.WAA14183@austin.polstra.com>
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, John Polstra wrote:

> In article <Pine.BSF.3.96.980121185653.8321B-100000@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu>,
> John Fieber  <jfieber@indiana.edu> wrote:
> > I just built egcs in eager anticipation of working exceptions. 
> > No dice (just an Abort Trap).  Is this something that only works
> > on -current? (I'm running 2.2.5)
> 
> Could you please try recompiling your programs with
> "-fsjlj-exceptions" on the command line?  I think that might help.  If
> it does, I'll add a patch to the port to make it the default.

That does the trick, at least on a simple test case.

Do you also have a magic command line option to make some form of
automatic template instantiation work?  :)  Even brain dammaged,
bloat producing methods would be helpful.  Manually instantiating
everything gets ugly really fast with STL.

-john


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 13:56:44 1998
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To: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: egcs and exceptions 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:52:13 EST."
    <Pine.BSF.3.96.980123164134.9195B-100000@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu> 
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:55:57 -0800
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> That does the trick, at least on a simple test case.

That's what I decided too.  I already committed a patch to make it the
default.  It can still be turned back off with "-fno-sjlj-exceptions".
(*gag*)

> Do you also have a magic command line option to make some form of
> automatic template instantiation work? :)

Have you tried "-frepo"?  It is supposedly implemented in egcs, though
I haven't tried it.  You might want to take a peek at the egcs info
pages that get installed with the port.  There is a little bit of
new discussion there about different approaches for instantiating
templates.

John

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 14:17:08 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:17:31 +0100
From: Stefan Esser <se@FreeBSD.ORG>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Fastvid module available!
References: <199801090700.AA299089244@pollux.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> <199801210936.BAA03932@rah.star-gate.com>
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On 1998-01-21 01:36 -0800, Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com> wrote:
> A couple of things I had to hack fastvid a little in order to get it
> to compile on -current.

> 1. I would like to see a user land program set the values, for example:
> ./fastvid 0x9800000 00x4000000 

I do not like this at all as a command for the "dumb" user.
It's fine for testing and benchmarking, though ...

> 2. Ability to set multiple ranges useful in my case because I have
>    Diamond Monster 3d and a Matrox Millenium.

If multiple ranges are available for that purpose: why not.

> 3. Dump the registers

For debugging purposes: OK.

> 4. If the pci code is up to it it would be nice to dump the pci configuration
>    for all the devices and if possible properly identify the devices. 
>    The probe code already does some of this so it should not be that 
>    difficult if the pci code can return a list of currently installed pci
>    devices along with their respective configuration.

The PCI code already is "up to it". You only have to call a
"fastvid" function from the VGA attach code. All the PCI map
registers are available, and you can just make the largest 
memory mapped region "fast".

Multiple regions should be OK, too, if supported by the CPU.

We should perhaps provide a processor type dependent function
"cpu_cacheable(void *base, size_t bytes, int cachemode)", which 
tries to setup the memory region for mode, normally (CM_CACHE+
CM_WRITECOMB+...), you get the picture, on a PPro, P-II, AMD K6, 
Cyrix 6x86 ...

The default emulation of that function is to just return, and
owners of CPUs that support video memory regions should write
and test the CPU specific implementation on their systems.

Well, me ? I only got a i486 class system and can't help much :)

But if you just want me to put a hook into the PCI code, which 
makes the VGA attach call "cpu_cacheable()", that's not much of 
a problem ...

Regards, STefan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 14:21:03 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:20:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Chuck <crtb@capecod.net>
Reply-To: Chuck <crtb@capecod.net>
To: Alejandro Galindo <agalindo@servidor.exsocom.com.mx>
cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Modem Speed in ttys and gettytab  files
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980123194541.00936e8c@exsocom.com.mx>
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The modem must be convinced to communicate with FreeBSD at the
desired speed.  Gettytab only influences FreeBSD.  If the serial
interface is different from what the modem sends, there will be
garbage.  Talk to the modem about this.  Use kermit and the device
name cuaa0 (not tty0 or sio0 or whatever; it's the same device,
seen from a different perspective).  Set speed to 115200 (for instance),
AT, and wait for OK.  If you get OK, then enter AT&F, possibly other S0=1
etc., then AT&W.  Now the modem should understand that it talks at
115200 by default.

Sorry to be so anthropomorphic, but you see, there's these little guys
running around in there....
        Chuck Bacon -- crtb@capecod.net
                ABHOR SECRECY -- DEFEND PRIVACY

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Alejandro Galindo wrote:

>         1 Year ago i try to configure the modem speed in the gettytab and
> ttys files for dialin, i only can use the std.19200 and it works well, i see
> in the pppkit a configuration with std.38400, std.57600 and std.115200, but
> when a user conect to my server he only see bad characters (not the login
> prompt) i try with several modems (motorola 33.6, etc. now we have the
> motorola 57.6 ModemSurfer) but i can't work with a configuration major than
> std.19200.
> 
> Can you indicate me how configure the gettytab for a std.115200, std.57600
> and std.38400? and this number (115200) what do it mean? is the speed betwen
> the serial port and the modem?
> 
> I have a 2.2.5 RELEASE and a Cyclades Cyclom-Y multiport (it support 115200
> i think).
> 
> thanks in advanced
> 
> Saludos
> Alejandro
>  
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |                                                          ,        ,        |
> |                                                         /(        )`       |
> |                                                         \ \___   / |       |
> |                                                         /- _  `-/  '       |
> |                                                        (/\/ \ \   /\       |
> |     ExSoCom Dgo. MEXICO                                / /   | `    \      |
> |                                                        O O   ) /    |      |
> |                                                        `-^--'`<     '      |
> |                                                       (_.)  _  )   /       |
> |     Alejandro Galindo Chairez                          `.___/`    /        |
> |     Tel: (18) 179177                                     `-----' /         |
> |     Fax: (18) 179177                        <----.     __ / __   \         |
> |                                             <----|====O)))==) \) /====     |
> |    e-mail alejandro.galindo@exsocom.com.mx  <----'    `--' `.__,' \        |
> |                                                          |        |        |
> |          http://www.exsocom.com.mx                       \       /       /\|
> |                                                     ______( (_  / \______/ |
> |                                                   ,'  ,-----'   |          |
> |                      a FreeBSD user               `--{__________)          |
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 14:31:37 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:50:38 +0100
From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= <dag-erli@ifi.uio.no>
Subject: Re: IPv6
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According to Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav:
> Any plans for adding native IPv6 support to FreeBSD? It would seem
> that NetBSD already has such support, and I've been told there are
> some third-party drivers for FreeBSD.

The Jury is still out about which version of the various IPv6 stacks we
would be using. Two I know of are pretty advanced and working (the INRIA
one made by Francis Dupont[1] for 2.2.*) and the Japanese one (Wide
Project[2]).

The former is used in many 6bone sites in France along with some "private"
implementations (Dassault Aviation for example). IBM decided to take
Francis' code as base for their AIX IPv6 stack. Francis started writing his
stack for NetBSD and keeps on maintaining it although most of his work is
done now using FreeBSD. This is the one I'd like to see in FreeBSD :-)

One of the interesting things I've heard about the Wide implementation is
that they use a user-mode daemon to do most of the work (to be confirmed,
I've not seen the code).

Ipsilon has also a private implementation for its FreeBSD based routers.

Here is one message from Garrett Wollman back in October about the NRL code.

-=-=-=-
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:59:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>
To: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
Cc: freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IPv6 sources w/out export restriction

<<On Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:54:03 +0300 (EEST), Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi> said:

> What other working implementations there are in addition to the INRIA
> one (for FreeBSD)?

There's the DARTNET one based on the NRL code (which is radically
restructured every week or so I'm told, making it difficult to keep a
stable code base).  There's the one from WIDE in Japan.  I've talked
with people who know of others, but I can't be more specific.

IPv6 right now is a research vehicle.  It will not be production
technology for some years.  It would be very, very premature to
incorporate any one implementation into our source tree at this time.
-=-=-=-

There is also a release of IPv6 Mobile for FreeBSD. See the archives, I
think it was announced in -announce.

I'll probably work more on IPv6 at work where we have a project involving
ATM, Satellites and IPv6. They started with Solaris and Linux but after
taking me into the project, two FreeBSD machines magically appeared one day
and one is our IPv6 tunnel connection to the G6 (french branch of the
6bone) :-)

-----
[1] <mailto:Francis.Dupont@inria.fr>
    <ftp://ftp.inria.fr/network/ipv6/>

[2] <http://www.v6.wide.ad.jp/>
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #4: Sun Jan 18 15:50:16 CET 1998

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 14:33:03 1998
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Subject: Re: Mike Shaver: Netscape gives away source code for Communicator 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, John Kelly wrote:

> This is an interesting case of BSD vs. GPL.
> 
> If Netscape used a BSD type license, Microsoft could take it and add
> improvements and hide the improvements.  With GPL, they can still take
> it, but can't hide the improvements.  At least not without getting
> sued by Netscape.
> 
> So GPL is better for Netscape.

However, if I remember correctly the announcment said "GPL-Like" rather
than the actual GPL license.  So we will have to see exactly what Netscape
deems to be similar to the GPL.

- -jwb

 _____ ___ ___ 
|_   _| _ ) __| James W. Brinkerhoff <security@tbe.net, jwb@tbe.net>
  | | | _ \ _| 	       TBE Network Security Administrator
  |_| |___/___| TBE Internet Services - 973.835.9696 <sales@tbe.net>
 Key fingerprint =  0E DA 27 39 91 1E B6 29  A4 D2 5E E5 FD 3B F4 3C

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

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From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 14:48:21 1998
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Are the "new" intel 8640 cards fully supported? ( a salesman told me
that they are the same at the Pro 100/B...but I'd like to know for certain.

thanks,

dennis

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 14:59:26 1998
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From: Tony Holmes <tholmes@zeus.leitch.com>
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Subject: Making a 2.2 Stable boot floopy
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:59:49 -0500 (EST)
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Hello there,

I have recently CVSUP'ed the 2.2 Stable tree and am attempting to
create a distribution for internal installs.  I and my associate
finally got the make release mechanism all figured out and working and
even got the boot floopy created.  However, when using the floopy for
installs, we end up with a page fault whilst unpacking the
distributions early in the install process.

The last CVSUP took place on Jan. 21 and was wondering if there were
any known caveats with the stable branch at this point.  We did apply
a vfs_bio.c patch posted early (I believe in this group - or maybe in
stable) with no effect (one of the panics was in vfs_...something or
other).

							Tony Holmes
							Greg A. Woods

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 15:14:44 1998
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Subject: Re: Modem Speed in ttys and gettytab  files
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980123194541.00936e8c@exsocom.com.mx> from Alejandro Galindo at "Jan 23, 98 01:45:41 pm"
To: agalindo@servidor.exsocom.com.mx (Alejandro Galindo)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:13:30 -0600 (CST)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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In reply:
>         1 Year ago i try to configure the modem speed in the gettytab and
> ttys files for dialin, i only can use the std.19200 and it works well, i see
> in the pppkit a configuration with std.38400, std.57600 and std.115200, but
> when a user conect to my server he only see bad characters (not the login
> prompt) i try with several modems (motorola 33.6, etc. now we have the
> motorola 57.6 ModemSurfer) but i can't work with a configuration major than
> std.19200.
> 
> Can you indicate me how configure the gettytab for a std.115200, std.57600
> and std.38400? and this number (115200) what do it mean? is the speed betwen
> the serial port and the modem?
> 
> I have a 2.2.5 RELEASE and a Cyclades Cyclom-Y multiport (it support 115200
> i think).
> 
> thanks in advanced
> 
> Saludos
> Alejandro

use mgetty...  much better.  it's in the ports collecction.  i'm using
it on this modem port here [read mail at home, when at work], and on a
directly connected vt420 terminal in the living room.  different
/etc/issue files for each too...

mgetty also handles fax and voice connections.

i usually replace everything but the console with mgetty.

jim
-- 
All opinions expressed are mine, if you    |  "I will not be pushed, stamped,
think otherwise, then go jump into turbid  |  briefed, debriefed, indexed, or
radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!!      |  numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 15:17:06 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:03:07 +0100
From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Fastvid module available!
Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org
References: <199801090700.AA299089244@pollux.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de>
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According to Lars Koeller:
> Jonh Dyson and I have hacked a DOS fastvid equivalent lkm for 
> FreeBSD. It enables VGA banked and VGA linear frame buffer Write 
> Combining for Pentium Pro and Pentium-II based mainboards.

Is it limited to PPro and PII processors or not ?
 
>     ftp://ftp.Uni-Bielefeld.DE/pub/systems/FreeBSD/lkoeller/fastvid.tar.gz

Will get it soon.
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #4: Sun Jan 18 15:50:16 CET 1998

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 15:33:15 1998
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From: Nathan Dorfman <nathan@rtfm.net>
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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I saw the discussion about modifying the source in the latest
hackers-digest...maybe you can change the picture by setting
a resource. Never really used Motif, I prefer Xaw3d.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 16:07:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:11:55 -0600
To: Chuck <crtb@capecod.net>
From: Alejandro Galindo <agalindo@servidor.exsocom.com.mx>
Subject: Re: Modem Speed in ttys and gettytab  files
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG
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        i set speed 115200 with kermit, the problem now is the modem not
respond to "at" commands, next i set the speed to 19200 but the modem dont
respond to "at" commands, i use the tip program for configure the modems
(like kermit) but i cant configure the modem to factory at&f, how can i do?.

        With other modem, i use the "mgetty -s 115200" in ttys file and it
works (from reply Jim Bryant <jbryant@unix.tfs.net>) and the comunication is
most faster  now we have an average round-trip (with ping) of 140 ms in the
past the average was 230 ms (betwen the server and
 the interface pppc00.mydomain --> /dev/ttyc00).

the question now is why if the modem works well with mgetty and 115200 of
speed  when i set the speed with kermit to 115200 the modem is'nt work?

thank you for your replys
Saludos
Alejandro

At 17:20 23/01/98 -0500, you wrote:
>The modem must be convinced to communicate with FreeBSD at the
>desired speed.  Gettytab only influences FreeBSD.  If the serial
>interface is different from what the modem sends, there will be
>garbage.  Talk to the modem about this.  Use kermit and the device
>name cuaa0 (not tty0 or sio0 or whatever; it's the same device,
>seen from a different perspective).  Set speed to 115200 (for instance),
>AT, and wait for OK.  If you get OK, then enter AT&F, possibly other S0=1
>etc., then AT&W.  Now the modem should understand that it talks at
>115200 by default.
>
>Sorry to be so anthropomorphic, but you see, there's these little guys
>running around in there....
>        Chuck Bacon -- crtb@capecod.net
>                ABHOR SECRECY -- DEFEND PRIVACY
>
 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                          ,        ,        |
|                                                         /(        )`       |
|                                                         \ \___   / |       |
|                                                         /- _  `-/  '       |
|                                                        (/\/ \ \   /\       |
|     ExSoCom Dgo. MEXICO                                / /   | `    \      |
|                                                        O O   ) /    |      |
|                                                        `-^--'`<     '      |
|                                                       (_.)  _  )   /       |
|     Alejandro Galindo Chairez                          `.___/`    /        |
|     Tel: (52 18) 179177                                  `-----' /         |
|     Fax: (52 18) 179177                     <----.     __ / __   \         |
|                                             <----|====O)))==) \) /====     |
|    e-mail alejandro.galindo@exsocom.com.mx  <----'    `--' `.__,' \        |
|                                                          |        |        |
|          http://www.exsocom.com.mx                       \       /       /\|
|                                                     ______( (_  / \______/ |
|                                                   ,'  ,-----'   |          |
|                      a FreeBSD user               `--{__________)          |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 17:27:58 1998
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To: dennis <dennis@etinc.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Intel 8640 cards 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:51:58 EST."
             <3.0.32.19980123175155.00f23be0@etinc.com> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:30:15 -0800
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>Are the "new" intel 8640 cards fully supported? ( a salesman told me
>that they are the same at the Pro 100/B...but I'd like to know for certain.

   I don't know what an 8640 is. As Tom said, if it is the Pro/100+, it should
work fine and look like a 82557+82555 to the system.

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 17:33:47 1998
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Hi there...

I just joined the list.. hello to all...:)

We are in the process as an ISP network provider of switching most if 
not all machines from Linux to FreeBSD.  As the network admin, I am 
now faced with learning FreeBSD.  

One thing I am not totally clear on is the way the passwd.master file 
is updated.  I can run adduser etc. and put a user online but does 
that automatically update the passwd.master.

Is there a series of howto & info files available on this stuff such 
as there is with Linux?

If anyone has a web page devoted to Linux users converting to FreeBSD 
I'd love to see it.  Currently we have switched our proxy server over 
the FreeBSD and it's running much better under Squid than it was 
under Linux.

Sincerely,

Paul Stewart

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 17:34:24 1998
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To: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
cc: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:16:37 CDT."
             <9801231816.AA10759@mlor.its.rpi.edu> 
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From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> I think it's a good move for Netscape.  And to keep this somewhat
> relevent to the hackers mailing list, it will be certainly a good
> move for netscape on FreeBSD...   :-)

What *I'd* like to see/hear would be some commentary from the people 
inside Netscape that are responsible for the current port.

Given any sort of say in the matter, I would be asking them to take a 
fairly active guiding role' as they are in an extremely important 
bridging position.


-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 17:46:12 1998
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To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br
cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: uiomove() 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:19:36 -0300."
             <83256595.006A05B5.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> 
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> 
> > There are a few other things I left out, particularly the correct
> > handling of returns from tsleep() when PCATCH is specified.
> 
> Yup... I forgot to bother you about that... Currently, I'm not PCATCHing
> and what the hell, but I intend to be more politically correct. I just have
> not figured exactly what I'm supposed to do at ERESTART.

OK.  Here's a more "politically correct" read() routine.  You should be 
able to mirror this into a write() fairly easily.


foo_read()
{
	int	s, result, hmany, got;
	struct foo_softc *sc = ...

	got = 0;

	while (uio->uio_resid > 0) {
		s = splfoo();
		while (!result && (sc->ready == 0)) {
			if (flags & F_NONBLOCK)
				result = EWOUDLBLOCK;
			else
				result = tsleep(&sc->ready, PRIFOO | PCATCH,
						"fooread", 0);
			if (result = ERESTART)
				if (got == 0)
					result = 0;
				else
					result = EINTR;
		}
		splx(s);
		if (result)
			return(result);
		hmany = min(sc->ready, uio->uio_resid);
		result = uiomove(sc->buf, hmany, uio);
		if (result)
			return(result);
		s = splfoo();
		if (hmany < sc->ready)
			bcopy(sc->buf + hmany, sc->buf, sc->ready - hmany);
		sc->ready -= hmany;
		splx(s);
		got += hmany;
	}
	return(0);
}

This implements the policy "If a signal is received we will return a 
short read count, except where that count would be zero" (because 
returning EOF tends to upset some people 8).

You might want to always convert ERESTART to EINTR (always error on 
interrupt), but that becomes more complex as you may already have 
consumed data from the read buffer, which may throw your caller out of 
sync.

Another approach is to ignore ERESTART, ie. never return a short count.
That's also quite legitimate with the above code, ie. 

	if (result == ERESTART) 
		result = 0;

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 17:51:41 1998
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Message-ID: <19980124122120.24416@lemis.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:21:20 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Andrew Kenneth Milton <akm@mother.sneaker.net.au>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Free Slowaris (was: Free netscape - good or bad ?)
References: <199801231544.CAA04714@mother.sneaker.net.au>
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Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia
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On Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 02:44:38AM +1100, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
>> -----[ Darren Reed ]------------------------------
>>
>> In some mail from Jonathan M. Bresler, sie said:
>>>
>>> 	corporations and financial institutions will find this
>>> 	very attractive.   to counter, microsoft would have to create
>>> 	a high quality product.....something the "regents of reboot"
>>> 	have never done.
>>
>> I beg to differ.  If Netscape no longer participate in the product,
>> then that is good for Microsoft - the Netscape browser becomes yet
>> another shareware/freeware product with no real support, etc.
>>
>> Granted not everyone thinks like that but some people DO.
>
> Solaris is under the similar type of licence at the moment now is it not?
> You can get full source code for Solaris if you're an educational
> institution.

Somebody tried this recently.  It turns out you need to be a professor
of computer science or have his backing to get the source.  Not quite
what we're looking at here.

Greg

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 18:08:32 1998
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From: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home)
Subject: PSM Problems
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:08:17 -0500 (EST)
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I updated yesterday from RELENG_2_2 and did the makeworld thing.
I generated a new version of the kernel.
Today, I cannot start X as I get a constant stream of messages as follows:

psmintr: out of sync (xxxx != 0008)
		where xxxx is 0000 or 00c8.

The mouse pointer sticks in the upper right corner of the screen and
cannot be moved.

Can anyone advise me where I screwed up? Everything worked fine prior to the
recompiles.

Regards,
Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 18:20:04 1998
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To: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp
Subject: Re: PSM Problems 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:08:17 EST."
             <m0xvv17-00085JC@TomQNX.tomqnx.com> 
References: <m0xvv17-00085JC@TomQNX.tomqnx.com> 
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:27:21 +0900
From: Kazutaka YOKOTA <yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>
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>I updated yesterday from RELENG_2_2 and did the makeworld thing.
>I generated a new version of the kernel.
>Today, I cannot start X as I get a constant stream of messages as follows:
>
>psmintr: out of sync (xxxx != 0008)
>		where xxxx is 0000 or 00c8.
>
>The mouse pointer sticks in the upper right corner of the screen and
>cannot be moved.
>
>Can anyone advise me where I screwed up? Everything worked fine prior to the
>recompiles.
>
>Regards,
>Tom

Which brand of PS/2 mice are you using?

Would you first try to boot the system with the -v option at the
"boot:" prompt and send me the boot messages (dmesg output)?

To clear the problem, enter UserConfig when you boot the system and
set the flags for the psm driver to 0x100. And the problem should go
away. (See the man pages for psm(4))

Kazu

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 18:27:26 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:26:42 -0500
From: garman@phs.k12.ar.us
To: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ?
References: <199801231527.HAA10770@hub.freebsd.org> <9801231816.AA10759@mlor.its.rpi.edu>
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In-Reply-To: <9801231816.AA10759@mlor.its.rpi.edu>; from Garance A Drosehn on Jan 23, 1998 13:16:37 -0500
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Garance A Drosehn writes:
>
> I think it's a good move for Netscape.  And to keep this somewhat
> relevent to the hackers mailing list, it will be certainly a good
> move for netscape on FreeBSD...   :-)
> 
Well, all that remains to be seen, then, is to see whether or not the
Netscape source code compiles with Lesstif :-) <tongue firmly planted in
cheek...>

enjoy,
-- 
Jason Garman                                     http://garman.home.ml.org/
Student, University of Maryland                        garman@earthling.net
      "A friend in Campus Parking is a True Friend Indeed." -- me

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 18:35:45 1998
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From: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home)
Subject: PSM Problem
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:35:02 -0500 (EST)
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The following comes out on a verbose boot (but is not logged).

kbdio: Diagnose status: 0055
  "    TEST_KBD_PORT status: 0000
  "    RESET_KBD return code: 00fa
  "              "          : 00aa
  "    TEST_AUX_PORT status: 0000
  "    RESET_AUX return code: 00fa
  "              "          : 00aa
  "    RESET_AUX_ID: 0000
psm: status 00 02 64
 "     "    00 00 64
 "     "    00 03 64
 "     "    00 03 64
 "     "    10 00 64
 "   data 08 00 00
 "   data 08 00 00
 "   status 00 02 64


I hope this helps.

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 19:03:10 1998
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cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
        =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= <dag-erli@ifi.uio.no>
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Subject: Re: IPv6 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:02:39 +0900
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>> Any plans for adding native IPv6 support to FreeBSD? It would seem
>> that NetBSD already has such support, and I've been told there are
>> some third-party drivers for FreeBSD.
>The Jury is still out about which version of the various IPv6 stacks we
>would be using. Two I know of are pretty advanced and working (the INRIA
>one made by Francis Dupont[1] for 2.2.*) and the Japanese one (Wide
>Project[2]).

	WIDE Project has several implementations.
	I happened to be one of main hackers for "hydrangea" implementation,
	which is mainly done on FreeBSD (supports BSDI and NetBSD too)
	So ask me anything about this. :-)

	Luckily enough Japan has no restriction on crypto software.  So,
	"hydrangea" implementation includes IPsec.  It also includes
	IPv6-over-ATM.  Our code is heavily used in Japan 6bone.
	Visit ftp://ftp.itojun.org/pub/ipv6/ to fetch the latest kit.

>One of the interesting things I've heard about the Wide implementation is
>that they use a user-mode daemon to do most of the work (to be confirmed,
>I've not seen the code).

	As stated above WIDE has several implementations.  "v6d"
	implementation (done by onoe@sm.sony.co.jp) is daemon-based.
	Others are kernel-based.

Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh
itojun@itojun.org

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 19:11:29 1998
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Subject: PSM Problem
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I notice that kbdio.h, mse.c and psm.c were all modified as of 
Jan 20 at 10:20

Regards,
Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 19:13:01 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:50:49 +1100
From: David Dawes <dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
To: Stefan Esser <se@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Fastvid module available!
References: <199801090700.AA299089244@pollux.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> <199801210936.BAA03932@rah.star-gate.com> <19980122211731.37323@mi.uni-koeln.de>
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On Thu, Jan 22, 1998 at 09:17:31PM +0100, Stefan Esser wrote:

>> 4. If the pci code is up to it it would be nice to dump the pci configuration
>>    for all the devices and if possible properly identify the devices. 
>>    The probe code already does some of this so it should not be that 
>>    difficult if the pci code can return a list of currently installed pci
>>    devices along with their respective configuration.
>
>The PCI code already is "up to it". You only have to call a
>"fastvid" function from the VGA attach code. All the PCI map
>registers are available, and you can just make the largest 
>memory mapped region "fast".
>
>Multiple regions should be OK, too, if supported by the CPU.

Only do this for the framebuffer areas, not memory mapped I/O areas.
Those chipsets that have separate memory regions allocated for the
framebuffer and MMIO typically mark the framebuffer area a pre-fetchable,
and the MMIO area as non-pre-fetchable.  Some cards (some examples are
some S3 cards and some Mach64-based cards) have a single region, which
is divided up into framebuffer and MMIO.  It would be marked as
non-pre-fetchable.  To use something like fastvid effectively in that
case, you need to have some knowledge of how that area is organised.
Furthermore, some S3 chipsets have a bug that can result in the PCI
BIOS giving them a memory area aligned to 32MB instead of the required
64MB.  This can also result in a clash between the video card memory
and that of other PCI devices.  The XFree86 S3 server detects this and
remaps.  If the kernel is going to do fastvid, it should know about this
too.

While I generally like the idea of the OS taking care of this sort of
thing, it can still be useful to provide a way for something like the
Xserver to check and maybe change such things.

I don't know if any of you have had a look at what the Linux people
are doing in this area.  If you're interested, you can contact
Richard Gooch <rgooch@atnf.csiro.au>.

David

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 19:34:51 1998
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From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
To: pstewart@oncomdis.on.ca
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Linux --> FreeBSD
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:34:24 GMT
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On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:30:01 +0000, pstewart@oncomdis.on.ca wrote:

>We are in the process as an ISP network provider of switching most if 
>not all machines from Linux to FreeBSD.  As the network admin, I am 
>now faced with learning FreeBSD.

Just to hear it in your own words ... what caused the decision to
switch?

> Currently we have switched our proxy server over 
>the FreeBSD and it's running much better under Squid than it was 
>under Linux.

FreeBSD users would rather fight than switch. :-)

John




From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 19:37:16 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:37:08 -0500
From: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: fastvid lkm
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How can one tell if its actually helping or hindering?

-Crh

       Charles Henrich     Michigan State University     henrich@msu.edu

                         http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 19:45:40 1998
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Subject: Re: fastvid lkm
In-Reply-To: <19980123223708.26224@crh.cl.msu.edu> from Charles Henrich at "Jan 23, 98 10:37:08 pm"
To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:43:50 -0500 (EST)
Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "John S. Dyson" <dyson@FreeBSD.ORG>
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Charles Henrich said:
> How can one tell if its actually helping or hindering?
> 
You can turn on the X benchmark mode, it should show the speed
improvment (I see a 3-4X improvement for certain CPU/Video transfers.)
Also, text mode scrolling should be faster.  Some bioses might set the
memory type registers correctly.  Some do not (mine doesn't.)  There was
a bug in my initial version, in that the memory type was not being set
correctly for the video mem (it was being set to 0, instead of 1 (write
combining).)  The ISA memory hole video mem was being set correctly though.

I don't have time to look at it right now.  Sorry...  Lars is
supporting it though :-).

-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org     | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 20:02:35 1998
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Subject: Re: Linux --> FreeBSD 
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             <199801240119.UAA19683@oncomdis.on.ca> 
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> I just joined the list.. hello to all...:)

G'day Paul.  Nice to have you aboard.

> We are in the process as an ISP network provider of switching most if 
> not all machines from Linux to FreeBSD.  As the network admin, I am 
> now faced with learning FreeBSD.  

Shouldn't hurt you too much.  You should be aware that there a few 
other lists that may interest you (freebsd-questions and freebsd-isp).
The mailing list archives on www.freebsd.org are also a good place to 
search for answers (and people to ask questions of).

> One thing I am not totally clear on is the way the passwd.master file 
> is updated.  I can run adduser etc. and put a user online but does 
> that automatically update the passwd.master.

Yes.  The standard system tools for manipulating the user database are 
vipw (straightforward editing of the database in text form), adduser 
(interactive user adding) and pw (batch-mode interface).  If you are 
writing automated user management stuff, 'pw' is an excellent tool.

It is probably worth mentioning that the FreeBSD password database 
works slightly differently from what you are expecting.  /etc/passwd 
and /etc/master.passwd are kept as conveniences for the administrator 
and legacy programs.  The actual information is kept in /etc/pwd.db (no 
password data, general access) and /etc/spwd.db (password data, secure 
access).  These are db files, which make lookups substantially faster.

If you want to do bulk password data updates, edit a copy of 
/etc/master.passwd and then use pwd_mkdb to regenerate the databases.
(The standard system tools do this for you.)

> Is there a series of howto & info files available on this stuff such 
> as there is with Linux?

FreeBSD has manpages that are conscientiously updated.  It's also much 
more like a "normal" unix system, so many "normal" admin books are good 
reference sources.  There's a recommended reading list on the FreeBSD 
website which lists a number of texts. 

In addition, Walnut Creek CDROM publish Greg Leahy's 'The Complete 
FreeBSD', which covers a lot of ground when it comes to general usage.

> If anyone has a web page devoted to Linux users converting to FreeBSD 
> I'd love to see it. 

It would be nice to think that FreeBSD was so obvious that such 
reeducation wasn't required.  8)   In all seriousness though, I don't 
believe that anyone has published such an entity.  Of course, if you 
were to take notes over the next few months you would be in a position 
to start something like that yourself...

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 20:04:09 1998
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Subject: Re: PSM Problem 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:26:11 EST."
             <m0xvwEW-00085JC@TomQNX.tomqnx.com> 
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:59:26 +0900
From: Kazutaka YOKOTA <yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>
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>THe flag 0x100 did work - Now I wonder why it should suddenly be necessary.
>The relavent code seems to have changed effective Jan 20.

I am glad it worked.

Mouse code in 2.2-STABLE saw significant change around 19-20 January
when I merged mouse support code from 3.0-CURRENT.  Not only the psm
driver but the mse and sysmouse drivers and moused have been heavily
modified.  It was to support recent mouse products, such as
IntelliMouse, which have wheel/roller and additional buttons.

The problem you saw is a glitch in the synchronization check code in
the psm driver.  Synchronization check was optional until now
(PSM_CHECKSYNC). But, I made it standard after I thought I devised a
better method.  The code didn't produce problems in 3.0-CURRENT,
except for one occasion when a user reported "psmintr: out of sync
(xxxx != yyy)" when his SERIAL mouse is connected to the system via a
Cybex switch box (keyboard/mouse switch box) which emulates the PS/2
mouse.

The flag 0x100 disables the synchronization check.

Anyway, I will relax the synchronization code or completely disables
it, as your mouse is a genuine Microsoft model and there must be a
number of people using it.

BTW, your Microsoft PS/2 mouse is a slightly old model, isn't it?  The
one before ver.2?

Kazu

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 20:14:50 1998
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To: agalindo@servidor.exsocom.com.mx (Alejandro Galindo)
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+-----[ Alejandro Galindo ]------------------------------
| 
|         1 Year ago i try to configure the modem speed in the gettytab and
| ttys files for dialin, i only can use the std.19200 and it works well, i see
| in the pppkit a configuration with std.38400, std.57600 and std.115200, but
| when a user conect to my server he only see bad characters (not the login
| prompt) i try with several modems (motorola 33.6, etc. now we have the
| motorola 57.6 ModemSurfer) but i can't work with a configuration major than
| std.19200.
| 
| Can you indicate me how configure the gettytab for a std.115200, std.57600
| and std.38400? and this number (115200) what do it mean? is the speed betwen
| the serial port and the modem?
| 
| I have a 2.2.5 RELEASE and a Cyclades Cyclom-Y multiport (it support 115200
| i think).

I am currently having the exact same problem with the exact same hardware,
for std.57600.

What is happening, is that the modem is downtraining the portspeed to
9600, and for some reason some of the ports lock themselves into 56K.
I get this from looking at stty -f /dev/ttyc0xxx

The ones with getty's on them are at 9600 (the ones that work) the ones
that have PPP active have gone back to 57600. The ones that don't work
have a getty camped on them with the port at 57600.

I've been talking to our modem supplier in order to get old revision 
firmware in our modems, since they seem to work.

Surprisingly if I go into terminal mode using user ppp and dial into a modem
that way, everything is fine. If I attach a getty to that port directly
after this, it goes back to delivering crap.

The same port works with a different modem.

We have modems that work, and a new batch that don't. We've been running
for over 12 months with no problems until recently (2.2.2) Maybe the
cyclades driver is a little buggy, and not the modems.

-- 
  ,-_|\  SneakerNet       |     Andrew Milton    |    GSM: +61(41)6 022 411
 /     \ P.O. Box 154     |  akm@sneaker.net.au  |    Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233
 \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233
      v  NSW 2137      | Low cost Internet Solutions |

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 21:00:12 1998
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From: Andrew Kenneth Milton <akm@mother.sneaker.net.au>
Message-Id: <199801240441.PAA14250@mother.sneaker.net.au>
Subject: Re: Free Slowaris (was: Free netscape - good or bad ?)
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:41:56 +1100 (EST)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980124122120.24416@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 24, 98 12:21:20 pm
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+-----[ Greg Lehey ]------------------------------
| 
| On Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 02:44:38AM +1100, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
| >> -----[ Darren Reed ]------------------------------
| >>
| >> In some mail from Jonathan M. Bresler, sie said:
| >>>
| >>> 	corporations and financial institutions will find this
| >>> 	very attractive.   to counter, microsoft would have to create
| >>> 	a high quality product.....something the "regents of reboot"
| >>> 	have never done.
| >>
| >> I beg to differ.  If Netscape no longer participate in the product,
| >> then that is good for Microsoft - the Netscape browser becomes yet
| >> another shareware/freeware product with no real support, etc.
| >>
| >> Granted not everyone thinks like that but some people DO.
| >
| > Solaris is under the similar type of licence at the moment now is it not?
| > You can get full source code for Solaris if you're an educational
| > institution.
| 
| Somebody tried this recently.  It turns out you need to be a professor
| of computer science or have his backing to get the source.  Not quite
| what we're looking at here.

My point being that I don't see people deserting Solaris in droves (at least
not because they've made the source available), and SunSoft obviously still 
participate in the ongoing development of their product. Not so much a 
comment on the difficulty of obtaining source, more a retort to Darren's 
outlook on life.

I don't know how much revenue Netscape were generating from client sales
Vs the number of copies downloaded. But I dare say it's minimal compared
with server sales.

There will still be companies who purchase the client, just to have the
support anyway.

-- 
  ,-_|\  SneakerNet       |     Andrew Milton    |    GSM: +61(41)6 022 411
 /     \ P.O. Box 154     |  akm@sneaker.net.au  |    Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233
 \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233
      v  NSW 2137      | Low cost Internet Solutions |

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 21:05:50 1998
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From: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@sunyit.edu>
To: "Charles Henrich" <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>, <dyson@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc: <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: fastvid lkm
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:20:48 -0500
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the xbench program i assume, regarding the xbench program,  i can't get it
to compile on freebsd 2.2-stable, can anyone help me with it?

-Alfred

----------
> From: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
> To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG
> Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: fastvid lkm
> Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 10:37 PM
> 
> How can one tell if its actually helping or hindering?
> 
> -Crh
> 
>        Charles Henrich     Michigan State University     henrich@msu.edu
> 
>                          http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 21:22:28 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:57:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>
To: pstewart@oncomdis.on.ca
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Linux --> FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <199801240119.UAA19683@oncomdis.on.ca>
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On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 pstewart@oncomdis.on.ca wrote:

> Hi there...
> 
> I just joined the list.. hello to all...:)

Hello there.
 
> We are in the process as an ISP network provider of switching most if 
> not all machines from Linux to FreeBSD.  As the network admin, I am 
> now faced with learning FreeBSD.  

Don't fear, it's pretty painless.  I learned a lot of what I know by
lurking on the mailing lists.  This one in particular has a lot of
interesting discussion, though I don't always understand it all. 

> One thing I am not totally clear on is the way the passwd.master file 
> is updated.  I can run adduser etc. and put a user online but does 
> that automatically update the passwd.master.

Yes.  BTW it's master.passwd.

> Is there a series of howto & info files available on this stuff such 
> as there is with Linux?

There are of course the man pages, also in /usr/share/doc you can find the
FAQ and the handbook, although of course the versions at
http://www.freebsd.org are the most current. 

In terms of paper docs, Greg Lehey's _The Complete FreeBSD_ is quite
useful.  It's best when it comes to installation and configuration issues,
and I would by no means describe it as "complete". :-)

> If anyone has a web page devoted to Linux users converting to FreeBSD 
> I'd love to see it.  Currently we have switched our proxy server over 
> the FreeBSD and it's running much better under Squid than it was 
> under Linux.

I don't know of any such page.  Glad to hear FreeBSD is working out for
you so far.
 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Paul Stewart
> 



 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems." 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 21:28:00 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:26:37 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: ports@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: hoek@hwcn.org, dev.random@dev.random.nu, baum@abirnet.co.il,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: bsd.port.mk is broken
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On Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 02:30:21PM -0800, Satoshi Asami wrote:
> By the way, does anyone know how to do a check for a file existence
> (".if exists(foofile)") with a wildcard in make?  Or do I need to list
> all the possibilties (libtcl.so.75.0, libtcl.so.7.5, libtcl75.so.1.0,
> etc.)?

TMPVAR!=echo libtcl*
.for HACKVAR in ${TMPVAR}
.if exists(${HACKVAR}
	... do your stuff ...
.endif
.endif

I'm not certain it is an improvement, but it should work - I seem to
remember having done it myself at one time or another.

Eivind.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 21:29:24 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:25:03 -0500
To: pstewart@oncomdis.on.ca, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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At 08:30 PM 1/23/98 +0000, pstewart@oncomdis.on.ca wrote:
>One thing I am not totally clear on is the way the passwd.master file 
>is updated.  I can run adduser etc. and put a user online but does 
>that automatically update the passwd.master.

First of all, let me congratulate you on the switch. Good choice.
Excellent job.

No,, passwd.master is updated any time that you make a change to the
password table. In fact this is the master table. The other table 
(/etc/passwd) only exists for user application to get pertinent (ie, 
not passwords and not user group) for the application's nefarious uses 
(or any other imaginative uses the author deems appropriate).

There is *another* file pertinent to the password system, /etc/pwd.db. 
This file is a database of the password information. Why? Because large
tables mean longer read time. Having a hash database shortens the read
time. This rocks for large installations (large => 1).

If you modify passwd.master by chfn, chsh, passwd, etc. that's fine. If
you modify it with vi, don't forget to build /etc/pwd.db with pwd_mkdb.

Have fun.


Giao Nguyen

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 22:19:50 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:19:41 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
To: John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: egcs and exceptions 
In-Reply-To: <199801232155.NAA23291@austin.polstra.com>
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On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, John Polstra wrote:

> > Do you also have a magic command line option to make some form of
> > automatic template instantiation work? :)
> 
> Have you tried "-frepo"?  It is supposedly implemented in egcs, though
> I haven't tried it.

It sort of works, but some of the more complex STL classes don't
end up with all their pieces.  I have not completely eliminated
the possibility of pilot error though...

-john


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 22:23:23 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:05:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Watson <robert@cyrus.watson.org>
Reply-To: Robert Watson <robert@cyrus.watson.org>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: pthreads implementation in 3.0 (fwd)
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I sent this to questions, but it has been suggested to me that hackers may
have been a preferred destination :).  To quickly give an overview: many
FreeBSD library calls are thread-safe.  Some don't do anything about
threads.  Solaris has two invocations of fork -- one that follows process
semantics (all threads appear in the child), and one that continues only
the execution of the main thread in the child process.  Under pthreads,
the latter semantics is the only supported one.  In the case of fork and
exec, it is required.  A possible implementation would be to have the
threaded library fork disable threading prior to execution, then reenable
threading in only the parent.  Behavior of mutexes would have to be
defined -- in the child, with the disabling of threading, perhaps all
mutexes would be released (etc) or return the deadlock error.

Thanks,

  Robert N Watson 

Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/
SafePort Network Services  http://www.safeport.com/
robert@fledge.watson.org   http://www.watson.org/~robert/

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:42:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Watson <robert@cyrus.watson.org>
To: questions@freebsd.org
Subject: pthreads implementation in 3.0


Quick questions about the pthreads implementation:

1. Is there a thread-safe fork (as found in the Solaris pthreads fork() or
lwp fork1()) that only copies the current thread (not the current process
and all of its threads).  I am working with threads and need to fork/exec
another process, but current behavior duplicates all existing threads not
just the one that wishes to cause another program to execute.  Is there a
known workaround to this? :)  The Solaris fork() library call
implementation claims that it is pthreads compliant; this would make ours
less compliant (on the other hand, our fork does not claim to be
compliant, so this might not be a problem as such.)

2. As an alternative, is there a call that can be used to suspend
threading (leaving the current thread in the foreground) such that the
process could fork, do it's little fork thing, then reenable threading to
perform a threaded wait for the child to finish.  In the mean time, the
forked child would not be threading, so the rest of the threads would not
be awake to cause problems.


  Robert N Watson 

Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/
SafePort Network Services  http://www.safeport.com/
robert@fledge.watson.org   http://www.watson.org/~robert/



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 22:40:59 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:32:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IPv6 
In-Reply-To: <6110.885623423@coconut.itojun.org>
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On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh wrote:
> 	Unfortunately, the answer is no.(sorry)
> 	It is too hard for us to make our code synchronized to
> 	FreeBSD-current, while updating our IPv6 code....

Thats too bad. :/  Most of the hacking goes on with -current boxes.  All
my -RELEASE boxes are busy doing real work.

/* 
   Matthew N. Dodd		| A memory retaining a love you had for life	
   winter@jurai.net		| As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to
   http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53	
*/


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 22:41:02 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:28:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IPv6 
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On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh wrote:
> 	WIDE Project has several implementations.
> 	I happened to be one of main hackers for "hydrangea" implementation,
> 	which is mainly done on FreeBSD (supports BSDI and NetBSD too)
> 	So ask me anything about this. :-)
> 
> 	Luckily enough Japan has no restriction on crypto software.  So,
> 	"hydrangea" implementation includes IPsec.  It also includes
> 	IPv6-over-ATM.  Our code is heavily used in Japan 6bone.
> 	Visit ftp://ftp.itojun.org/pub/ipv6/ to fetch the latest kit.

Is there a release for -current?

/* 
   Matthew N. Dodd		| A memory retaining a love you had for life	
   winter@jurai.net		| As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to
   http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53	
*/


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 22:58:36 1998
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Subject: Re: IPv6 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:39:05 +0900
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>> 	Unfortunately, the answer is no.(sorry)
>> 	It is too hard for us to make our code synchronized to
>> 	FreeBSD-current, while updating our IPv6 code....
>Thats too bad. :/  Most of the hacking goes on with -current boxes.  All
>my -RELEASE boxes are busy doing real work.

	We maintain separate CVS repository for our IPv6 development.
	(there are several people working on it)
	It is too hard for us to merge EVERY changes made to FreeBSD-current
	kernel into our CVS repository.  Will you volunteer? :-)

	If I can merge our IPv6 code into the repository on
	freefall.freebsd.org, I can make FreeBSD-current with our IPv6 code.
	Otherwise I can't.  Sorry.

	(I believe porting to FreeBSD-current should be easy enough)

itojun

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 22:58:40 1998
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Subject: Re: IPv6 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:30:23 +0900
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>> 	WIDE Project has several implementations.
>> 	I happened to be one of main hackers for "hydrangea" implementation,
>> 	which is mainly done on FreeBSD (supports BSDI and NetBSD too)
>> 	So ask me anything about this. :-)
>> 	Luckily enough Japan has no restriction on crypto software.  So,
>> 	"hydrangea" implementation includes IPsec.  It also includes
>> 	IPv6-over-ATM.  Our code is heavily used in Japan 6bone.
>> 	Visit ftp://ftp.itojun.org/pub/ipv6/ to fetch the latest kit.
>Is there a release for -current?

	Unfortunately, the answer is no.(sorry)
	It is too hard for us to make our code synchronized to
	FreeBSD-current, while updating our IPv6 code....

itojun

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Fri Jan 23 23:28:24 1998
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On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Lee Crites (AEI) wrote:
> 
> This is what I was told was needed for a windoze nt box running an
> isp with 8 dial-up lines.  It was a copy of a machine I saw at an
> operating isp which ran like your average windoze box (read: like a
> dog).  Actually, that's a lie.  The isp box was, if I recall, a
> p133.  I figured my p200 would make it acceptable...

    Geez... I used to run P133 128MB shell servers on FreeBSD 2.1.0
that could comfortably handle ~100 users.  With today's CPU's and the
price of memory, it's too bad we can only get 256 pty's per machine.
I'll bet a nice Pentium II system could handle 500 shell users.
-- 
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 00:03:02 1998
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Subject: Re: pthreads implementation in 3.0 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980124005636.5088g-100000@cyrus.watson.org> from Robert Watson at "Jan 24, 98 01:05:51 am"
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Robert Watson wrote:
> 
> I sent this to questions, but it has been suggested to me that hackers may
> have been a preferred destination :).

I can't handle the volume of messages that -questions generates. Sorry.

> Quick questions about the pthreads implementation:
> 
> 1. Is there a thread-safe fork (as found in the Solaris pthreads fork() or
> lwp fork1()) that only copies the current thread (not the current process
> and all of its threads).  I am working with threads and need to fork/exec
> another process, but current behavior duplicates all existing threads not
> just the one that wishes to cause another program to execute.  Is there a
> known workaround to this? :)  The Solaris fork() library call
> implementation claims that it is pthreads compliant; this would make ours
> less compliant (on the other hand, our fork does not claim to be
> compliant, so this might not be a problem as such.)

The current implementation is not strictly POSIX. This should be fixed.
The required behavour is: "If a multithreaded process calls fork(), the
new process shall contain a replica of the calling thread and it's entire
address space, possibly including the states of any mutexes and other
resources."

> 
> 2. As an alternative, is there a call that can be used to suspend
> threading (leaving the current thread in the foreground) such that the
> process could fork, do it's little fork thing, then reenable threading to
> perform a threaded wait for the child to finish.  In the mean time, the
> forked child would not be threading, so the rest of the threads would not
> be awake to cause problems.

There is a call that will make a process single threaded. This was added
as an extension (allowed by POSIX) for Java. Try pthread_single_np()
and pthread_multi_np().

But what you really want is the correct behaviour. I'm in the middle of
doing something else that prevents me for testing out such a change. If
I send you a patch, are you in a position to test it? You'll need to
rebuild libc_r.

Regards,

-- 
John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org
CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 00:10:26 1998
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Since the recent hick-up of the freebsd-bugs list
my .procmailrc filter doesn't seem to work anymore.

Does anyone know if procmail confines the header size to a certain
number of lines. The header is quite large and the Sender:
line is one of the last lines. This is my filter section
for FreeBSD-bugs:

...

* ^Sender: owner-freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG
* ^Sender: owner-freebsd-bugs@freeBSD.org
* ^sender.*owner-freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG
* ^To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
$HOME/Mail/mailing-lists/fbsd-bugs


-- 
Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 00:11:00 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:37:29 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IPv6 
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On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh wrote:
> 	We maintain separate CVS repository for our IPv6 development.
> 	(there are several people working on it)
> 	It is too hard for us to merge EVERY changes made to FreeBSD-current
> 	kernel into our CVS repository.  Will you volunteer? :-)

In my copious spare time. :)

> 	If I can merge our IPv6 code into the repository on
> 	freefall.freebsd.org, I can make FreeBSD-current with our IPv6 code.
> 	Otherwise I can't.  Sorry.

Doesn't the CAM stuff and other bleeding edge projects have their own
branch for allowing development?

> 	(I believe porting to FreeBSD-current should be easy enough)

Indeed.  I guess I was discouraged by the lack of instant gratification.
:)

Which version of NetBSD does the code support?

/* 
   Matthew N. Dodd		| A memory retaining a love you had for life	
   winter@jurai.net		| As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to
   http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53	
*/


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 00:12:02 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:57:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, core@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IPv6 
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On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh wrote:
> 	We'll be very happy if we can merge ours into, but it is up to
> 	core-team to decide which IPv6 stack to be merged.  There are
> 	several candidates such as NRL, INRIA, and others.
> 	I asked about the merge in the past several times, but the answer
> 	was "core team do not want to decide that at this moment".
> 	(how is the situation right now? >core-team)

I wouldn't say that a main-tree merge would be the way to go but rather a
vendor branch like the CAM stuff (i believe.)

It would allow some hacking but would not make the WIDE stuff an
'official' IPv6 stack for freebsd.

> 	Also, the merger of IPsec part should be done very carefully. (US
> 	export-control issue, as usual...)

Bah. :)

> 	Though we haven't released snapshot for NetBSD yet (we are working
> 	on userland tools right now), it is on NetBSD-1.3.

When do you expect a release and would it be possible to get a kernel only
release diff?

/* 
   Matthew N. Dodd		| A memory retaining a love you had for life	
   winter@jurai.net		| As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to
   http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53	
*/


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 00:28:30 1998
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Subject: Re: IPv6 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:12:35 +0900
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	Oops, I forgot to cc: to hackers...

>I wouldn't say that a main-tree merge would be the way to go but rather a
>vendor branch like the CAM stuff (i believe.)
>It would allow some hacking but would not make the WIDE stuff an
>'official' IPv6 stack for freebsd.

	hmm.  I'll try to think about this and look into how CAM is developed.

>> 	Though we haven't released snapshot for NetBSD yet (we are working
>> 	on userland tools right now), it is on NetBSD-1.3.
>When do you expect a release and would it be possible to get a kernel only
>release diff?

	next month (Feb98).  I'm stuck with my thesis work right now.

	I'll send kernel-only diff for NetBSD-1.3 on request,
	so please contact me if you would like to look into.
	It is almost unusable, since you don't have ifconfig for inet6 :-)
	(as I said we're working on it)

itojun

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 00:30:22 1998
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Subject: Re: IPv6 
From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh <itojun@itojun.org>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:52:22 +0900
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>> 	If I can merge our IPv6 code into the repository on
>> 	freefall.freebsd.org, I can make FreeBSD-current with our IPv6 code.
>> 	Otherwise I can't.  Sorry.
>Doesn't the CAM stuff and other bleeding edge projects have their own
>branch for allowing development?

	We'll be very happy if we can merge ours into, but it is up to
	core-team to decide which IPv6 stack to be merged.  There are
	several candidates such as NRL, INRIA, and others.
	I asked about the merge in the past several times, but the answer
	was "core team do not want to decide that at this moment".
	(how is the situation right now? >core-team)

	Also, the merger of IPsec part should be done very carefully. (US
	export-control issue, as usual...)

>Which version of NetBSD does the code support?

	Though we haven't released snapshot for NetBSD yet (we are working
	on userland tools right now), it is on NetBSD-1.3.

itojun

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 00:40:31 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:55:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: Brian Tao <taob@nbc.netcom.ca>
cc: "Lee Crites (AEI)" <leec@adam.adonai.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box... 
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On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Brian Tao wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Lee Crites (AEI) wrote:
> > 
> > This is what I was told was needed for a windoze nt box running an
> > isp with 8 dial-up lines.  It was a copy of a machine I saw at an
> > operating isp which ran like your average windoze box (read: like a
> > dog).  Actually, that's a lie.  The isp box was, if I recall, a
> > p133.  I figured my p200 would make it acceptable...
> 
>     Geez... I used to run P133 128MB shell servers on FreeBSD 2.1.0
> that could comfortably handle ~100 users.  With today's CPU's and the
> price of memory, it's too bad we can only get 256 pty's per machine.
> I'll bet a nice Pentium II system could handle 500 shell users.

  I don't know where I could find that many shell users.  A system here
has 14K accounts, but only about a hundred of them actually use shell.
Where are you finding all these shell users?

> -- 
> Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca)
> "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 00:43:36 1998
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To: Brian Tao <taob@nbc.netcom.ca>
cc: "Lee Crites (AEI)" <leec@adam.adonai.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box... 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:34:26 EST."
             <Pine.GSO.3.95.980124003235.15866H-100000@tor-adm1> 
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:40:53 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> that could comfortably handle ~100 users.  With today's CPU's and the
> price of memory, it's too bad we can only get 256 pty's per machine.
> I'll bet a nice Pentium II system could handle 500 shell users.

Yeah, if only someone (sigh) would take up that cloning PTY driver
project, such arbitrary limits would be unnecessary.  [he gazes
wistfully off into the distance :-)]

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 00:44:18 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:34:46 -0800
From: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@efn.org>
To: Brian Tao <taob@nbc.netcom.ca>
Cc: "Lee Crites (AEI)" <leec@adam.adonai.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box...
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Brian Tao scribbled this message on Jan 24:
> On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Lee Crites (AEI) wrote:
> > 
> > This is what I was told was needed for a windoze nt box running an
> > isp with 8 dial-up lines.  It was a copy of a machine I saw at an
> > operating isp which ran like your average windoze box (read: like a
> > dog).  Actually, that's a lie.  The isp box was, if I recall, a
> > p133.  I figured my p200 would make it acceptable...
> 
>     Geez... I used to run P133 128MB shell servers on FreeBSD 2.1.0
> that could comfortably handle ~100 users.  With today's CPU's and the
> price of memory, it's too bad we can only get 256 pty's per machine.
> I'll bet a nice Pentium II system could handle 500 shell users.

actually, your only limited to 256 pty's if you use devfs...  (there
might be some modifications to handle minor numbers properly too),
but all you need to do is make the nodes by hand, teach the other
programs about 'em...

and yes, we do need to use a clone device instead of doing a linear
search of 'em...  but we need new open semantics that allow you to
pass back a different handle than what was opened...

-- 
  John-Mark Gurney                          Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954
  Cu Networking					  P.O. Box 5693, 97405

  Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 01:19:18 1998
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To: Matthew Hagerty <matthew@wolfepub.com>
cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Semaphore semop(), semctl() error 22 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:49:54 CDT."
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:48:03 +1030
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> Greetings, 
> 
>    I posted this in freebsd-questions but was told it should probably be
> posted in -hackers.  Please excuse me if it is inappropriate.
> 
>    I am trying to bet a BSDI binary (an RDBMS, Raima Velocis-1.4.1) to run
> on 2.2.5-Release.  The server starts fine, but when I try to access it, it
> crashes with an error to semop(), then to semctl() error 22.  Here is the
> error that I get on the terminal:
> 
> **** rm_syncDelete() semctl() failure, errno=22 (Invalid argument)



> I did a ktrace and kdump to see what might be going on, but since I'm
> really not sure what I'm looking at, it did not help me much.  In the
> kdump, there are several (about 100 actually) of these groups of lines that
> seem to get the errors rolling:
> 
>    196 rds      CALL  semop(0x10000,0xefbfdbcc,0x1)
>    196 rds      PSIG  SIGALRM caught handler=0xdb8b8 mask=0x0 code=0x0
>    196 rds      RET   semop -1 errno 4 Interrupted system call

That's normal; while waiting on a semaphore the application's timer has 
gone off.

> ..
> .. Then later they get worse:
> ..
>    196 rds      CALL  write(0x2,0xefbfcc84,0x44)
>    196 rds      GIO   fd 2 wrote 68 bytes
>        "**** rm_syncEnterExcl() semop() failure, errno=22 (Invalid argument)"

Where's the semop call that returned EINVAL?

>    196 rds      GIO   fd 2 wrote 14 bytes
>        "NCP Child died"

You'd need to know what the NCP Child was, and why it exited.

> ..
> .. Now semctl
> ..
>    196 rds      CALL  write(0x1,0x139000,0x43)
>    196 rds      GIO   fd 1 wrote 67 bytes
>        "**** rm_syncDelete() semctl() failure, errno=22 (Invalid argument)

Again, we need to see the trace for the semctl call, and perhaps you 
will need to put some debugging printf() calls in sys/kern/sysv_sem.c 
to see which EINVAL is being returned.

>    Any info, pointers, man pages to read, etc. would be greatly
> appreciated.  Also, how compatable is FreeBSD's semaphores to BSDI's?  I
> was told that FreeBSD's *native* operating mode was BSD (or is that BSD/OS,
> BSDI, or BSD-4.4?)  No emulation needed like for SCO or Linux binaries.
> Then again, I think BSD4.4 borrowed semaphores from SVR4?  Yes, no?

FreeBSD should run BSD/OS binaries.  The two systems share a common 
heritage, and there is some effort expended to ensure that BSD/OS code 
runs on FreeBSD.  The people at BSDi aren't all so kind, unfortunately.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 03:10:20 1998
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To: David Dawes <dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>
cc: Stefan Esser <se@FreeBSD.ORG>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rgooch@atnf.csiro.au
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Fastvid module available! 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:50:49 +1100."
             <19980124135049.46451@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> 
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From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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There are other issues which just simply lead me to believe that
the best possible way to implement fastvid is to provide a system
call and as for co-operating with linux developers thats fine 
with me .

So Richard, can you bring us up to speed on what you are up to?

	Tnks,
	Amancio

> On Thu, Jan 22, 1998 at 09:17:31PM +0100, Stefan Esser wrote:
> 
> >> 4. If the pci code is up to it it would be nice to dump the pci configuration
> >>    for all the devices and if possible properly identify the devices. 
> >>    The probe code already does some of this so it should not be that 
> >>    difficult if the pci code can return a list of currently installed pci
> >>    devices along with their respective configuration.
> >
> >The PCI code already is "up to it". You only have to call a
> >"fastvid" function from the VGA attach code. All the PCI map
> >registers are available, and you can just make the largest 
> >memory mapped region "fast".
> >
> >Multiple regions should be OK, too, if supported by the CPU.
> 
> Only do this for the framebuffer areas, not memory mapped I/O areas.
> Those chipsets that have separate memory regions allocated for the
> framebuffer and MMIO typically mark the framebuffer area a pre-fetchable,
> and the MMIO area as non-pre-fetchable.  Some cards (some examples are
> some S3 cards and some Mach64-based cards) have a single region, which
> is divided up into framebuffer and MMIO.  It would be marked as
> non-pre-fetchable.  To use something like fastvid effectively in that
> case, you need to have some knowledge of how that area is organised.
> Furthermore, some S3 chipsets have a bug that can result in the PCI
> BIOS giving them a memory area aligned to 32MB instead of the required
> 64MB.  This can also result in a clash between the video card memory
> and that of other PCI devices.  The XFree86 S3 server detects this and
> remaps.  If the kernel is going to do fastvid, it should know about this
> too.
> 
> While I generally like the idea of the OS taking care of this sort of
> thing, it can still be useful to provide a way for something like the
> Xserver to check and maybe change such things.
> 
> I don't know if any of you have had a look at what the Linux people
> are doing in this area.  If you're interested, you can contact
> Richard Gooch <rgooch@atnf.csiro.au>.
> 
> David



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 03:58:20 1998
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	Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:49:58 -0500
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:49:57 -0500 (EST)
From: pstewart <pstewart@oncomdis.on.ca>
To: John Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Linux --> FreeBSD
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hehehee.. I am faced with almost 100 emails this morning asking why the
switch to FreeBSD from Linux?    I'm flattered so many people
care...<kidding>.....

The reasons at this point (nothing written in stone) is that I took one
disk, inserted it into a machine, answered a few basic questions about
hardware, navigated a very easy to use (at least I thought so) menu system
asking what I wanted to do and what site to download it from etc. etc....
waited about 20 minutes and voila, one completely ready to roll Unix
system.  Then onced booted, I went to the ports collection (this ports
collection thing has to be the best invention I've ever seen, much better
than RPM on Linux in my opinion), told the server I wanted Squid and about
ten minutes later after copying my configuration from my backups I had a
fully running (apparently pretty secure also) server running a 4 gig proxy
cache.  

Simple, easy and to the point.... also like the upgrade features.... I
found we spent literally hours in Linux just upgrading kernels on the
various servers, patching GCC, recompiling Apache constantly as upgrades
came out..... with FreeBSD this seems so much easier and painless.

Thanks to everyone so far for their great support.

Paul

--
Out the modem, through the SPARC, down the T3, off the router, past the
frame-relay... nothing but Net.


On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, John Kelly wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:30:01 +0000, pstewart@oncomdis.on.ca wrote:
> 
> >We are in the process as an ISP network provider of switching most if 
> >not all machines from Linux to FreeBSD.  As the network admin, I am 
> >now faced with learning FreeBSD.
> 
> Just to hear it in your own words ... what caused the decision to
> switch?
> 
> > Currently we have switched our proxy server over 
> >the FreeBSD and it's running much better under Squid than it was 
> >under Linux.
> 
> FreeBSD users would rather fight than switch. :-)
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 04:07:01 1998
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Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:06:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: Donn Miller <dmm125@bellatlantic.net>
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To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: doscmd & vga (raw mode)
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I had a question about doscmd...  I know that raw mode isn't yet
supported, and neither is vga mode.  Does it need to cooperate with
syscons via the libvgl interface, or does it directly access video memory
via the bios/other?  Does raw mode work on BSDI?  I tried executing a
self-displaying picture with doscmd -r picture.exe and got
doscmd: fatal error reading program text.  What needs to be done to do
access VGA?  Also, VGA should be doable under X, even though it would be
much tougher.  

Thanks,
	Donn

P.S. This is far fetched, but I thought I might even be possible to do a
non-vga (libvga, syscons) port of netscape since the sources are going to
be released soon.  This could be tough.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 04:11:12 1998
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To: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav <dag-erli@ifi.uio.no>
Subject: Re: IPv6
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 24 Jan 1998 11:30:39 +0100
In-Reply-To: Ollivier Robert's message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:50:38 +0100"
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Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr> writes:
> From: Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>
> 
> IPv6 right now is a research vehicle.  It will not be production
> technology for some years.  It would be very, very premature to
> incorporate any one implementation into our source tree at this time.

I beg to differ. My reason for asking is that I know several people
who are actively involved in IPv6 work (CommSys research being done at
the University of Oslo), and they are less than happy about Linux'
IPv6 stack. Solid IPv6 support would IMHO give FreeBSD a considerable
edge over Linux in these circles.

Also, much of /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin and /usr/sbin will break when IPv6
finally hits the street, because of assumptions such as IP addresses
being four bytes long, etc. Making this software indifferent to the
particular IP version they run on would give FreeBSD a serious
advantage on "the day when the Internet switches to IPv6".

Remember that very soon, IPv6 will no longer be science-fiction or
just a nifty toy, but a necessity. We are this >< close to exhausting
the current 32-bit address space...

-- 
 * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
  RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 04:11:12 1998
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To: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: PSM Problems
References: <m0xvv17-00085JC@TomQNX.tomqnx.com>
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 24 Jan 1998 11:38:35 +0100
In-Reply-To: tom@tomqnx.com's message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:08:17 -0500 (EST)"
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tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) writes:
> I updated yesterday from RELENG_2_2 and did the makeworld thing.
> I generated a new version of the kernel.
> Today, I cannot start X as I get a constant stream of messages as follows:
> 
> psmintr: out of sync (xxxx != 0008)
> 		where xxxx is 0000 or 00c8.

Did you make world, or just recompile the kernel? If the latter, try
to make world and see if the problem goes away. There have been some
changes to the mouse drivers lately...

-- 
 * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
  RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 04:40:07 1998
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From: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@sunyit.edu>
To: <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: please excuse this question... but...
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:35:25 -0500
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anyone know how to tell gcc to look in /usr/local/include as well as in
/usr/include via some enviornment variable?
i swear i read the manpage, annoyed people on irc etc... but i just don't
know what to do and can't find an answer...

(i don't want to use -I) cause my makefiles depend on it...

thank you,
-Alfred

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 04:54:18 1998
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From: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@sunyit.edu>
To: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@sunyit.edu>, <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: please excuse this question... but...
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:49:58 -0500
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duh

setenv C_INCLUDE_PATH /usr/local/include

----------
> From: Alfred Perlstein <perlsta@sunyit.edu>
> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: please excuse this question... but...
> Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 7:35 AM
> 
> anyone know how to tell gcc to look in /usr/local/include as well as in
> /usr/include via some enviornment variable?
> i swear i read the manpage, annoyed people on irc etc... but i just don't
> know what to do and can't find an answer...
> 
> (i don't want to use -I) cause my makefiles depend on it...
> 
> thank you,
> -Alfred

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 05:19:53 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ?
References: <199801231527.HAA10770@hub.freebsd.org>
	<Mutt.19980123212642.garman@jason.garman.net>
From: Christoph Toshok <toshok@Hungry.COM>
Date: 24 Jan 1998 05:19:49 -0800
In-Reply-To: garman@phs.k12.ar.us's message of 23 Jan 1998 18:28:19 -0800
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garman@phs.k12.ar.us writes:
> 
> Garance A Drosehn writes:
> >
> > I think it's a good move for Netscape.  And to keep this somewhat
> > relevent to the hackers mailing list, it will be certainly a good
> > move for netscape on FreeBSD...   :-)
> > 
> Well, all that remains to be seen, then, is to see whether or not the
> Netscape source code compiles with Lesstif :-) <tongue firmly planted in
> cheek...>
> 

people have tried this before, with 0.81..  haven't heard of anyone
trying 0.82 - it might perform better.  0.81 had undefined symbols.

Frankly I would be surprised if lesstif is a viable alternative until
some time after we release the code.  We stress motif about as far as
it can go.  The navigator should provide *lots* of information on how
particular motif functions work (and what bugs exist in them :)

Christoph

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 05:27:32 1998
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Free Slowaris (was: Free netscape - good or bad ?)
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:33:13 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: akm@mother.sneaker.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980124122120.24416@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 24, 98 12:21:20 pm
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In some mail from Greg Lehey, sie said:
> 
> > Solaris is under the similar type of licence at the moment now is it not?
> > You can get full source code for Solaris if you're an educational
> > institution.
> 
> Somebody tried this recently.  It turns out you need to be a professor
> of computer science or have his backing to get the source.  Not quite
> what we're looking at here.

You forgot to include it's not allowed to be accessible via (a computer
attached to) the Internet either.


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 05:53:25 1998
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From: Mikael Karpberg <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se>
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Subject: Re: Linux --> FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980124002503.007abb90@pop.calweb.com> from Giao Nguyen at "Jan 24, 98 00:25:03 am"
To: notwerk@calweb.com (Giao Nguyen)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:39:55 +0100 (CET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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According to Giao Nguyen:
> If you modify passwd.master by chfn, chsh, passwd, etc. that's fine. If
> you modify it with vi, don't forget to build /etc/pwd.db with pwd_mkdb.

Er... There's no reason to "vi /etc/master.passwd" since you can just
as well do "vipw", which will rebuild everything automagically for you once
you are done. And do nothing if you didn't change anything.

  /Mikael

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 05:59:05 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ?
References: <9801231816.AA10759@mlor.its.rpi.edu>
	<199801240124.LAA00356@word.smith.net.au>
From: Christoph Toshok <toshok@Hungry.COM>
Date: 24 Jan 1998 05:58:58 -0800
In-Reply-To: mike@smith.net.au's message of 23 Jan 1998 17:35:11 -0800
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mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) writes:

> 
> > I think it's a good move for Netscape.  And to keep this somewhat
> > relevent to the hackers mailing list, it will be certainly a good
> > move for netscape on FreeBSD...   :-)
> 
> What *I'd* like to see/hear would be some commentary from the people 
> inside Netscape that are responsible for the current port.

I responded to mike alone, accidentally, instead of the entire list.

I alone am entirely to blame for the fact that there is a freebsd
port.  Well, me and the release guy that was kind enough to add it
to the release builds :)

> Given any sort of say in the matter, I would be asking them to take a 
> fairly active guiding role' as they are in an extremely important 
> bridging position.

I must admit a fair amount of ignorance.  You see, the news was sprung
on me (as it was on everyone at netscape that even *knew*) not long
the press release was made.  Most of us are just as much in the dark
as you are.

One thing I *can* tell you is that the XFE people have long been
working to release some sections of the navigator code (specifically
the XFE widget library) for free.  There is no shortage of people that
want the same thing as you all.  Now it's just a matter of convincing
those people that will make the decision :)

I'm more than willing to beat up on netscape people who are leaning
towards a more restrictive license than the GPL.  If any of you have
contact with such people from, let me know.  I'll be on the look out
for them as well.

Thanks,
Chris

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 06:14:48 1998
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From: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home)
Subject: Re: PSM Problems
In-Reply-To: <xzp1zxyxil0.fsf@gjallarhorn.ifi.uio.no> from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= at "Jan 24, 98 11:38:35 am"
To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:57:14 -0500 (EST)
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> tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) writes:
> > I updated yesterday from RELENG_2_2 and did the makeworld thing.
> > I generated a new version of the kernel.
> > Today, I cannot start X as I get a constant stream of messages as follows:
> > 
> > psmintr: out of sync (xxxx != 0008)
> > 		where xxxx is 0000 or 00c8.
> 
> Did you make world, or just recompile the kernel? If the latter, try
> to make world and see if the problem goes away. There have been some
> changes to the mouse drivers lately...
> 
> -- 
>  * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
>   RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"
> 
Both.
I have been corresponding with the author of the changes, who is aware of
the situation. I am currently avoiding the problem by having flag 0x100
set on the device to disable the sync-checking code. I have a very old
version of the Microsoft mouse.

Regards,
Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 07:45:57 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:49:17 -0600
To: Andrew Kenneth Milton <akm@mother.sneaker.net.au>
From: Alejandro Galindo <agalindo@servidor.exsocom.com.mx>
Subject: Re: Modem Speed in ttys and gettytab  files
Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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        Use the mgetty (usr/ports/comms/mgetty+sendfax) in replace of getty,
now  the portspeed is working at 115200 (mgetty -s 115200) or in the
mgetty.config file ( in /usr/local/etc/mgetty+sendfax) put the configuration
for every port:

--------mgetty.config     cut here----------

port ttyc00
debug 4
speed 115200
direct NO
blocking NO
data-only YES
modem-type auto
issue-file /etc/issue
rings 1
autobauding YES
login-prompt login:
login-time 240 
---------------- cut here -------------------

with that you have an speed more fast than getty (may be only for the
cyclades Y ports, i dont know for another serial multiports)

Saludos
Alejandro

>
>I am currently having the exact same problem with the exact same hardware,
>for std.57600.
>
>What is happening, is that the modem is downtraining the portspeed to
>9600, and for some reason some of the ports lock themselves into 56K.
>I get this from looking at stty -f /dev/ttyc0xxx
>
>The ones with getty's on them are at 9600 (the ones that work) the ones
>that have PPP active have gone back to 57600. The ones that don't work
>have a getty camped on them with the port at 57600.
>
>I've been talking to our modem supplier in order to get old revision 
>firmware in our modems, since they seem to work.
>
>Surprisingly if I go into terminal mode using user ppp and dial into a modem
>that way, everything is fine. If I attach a getty to that port directly
>after this, it goes back to delivering crap.
>
>The same port works with a different modem.
>
>We have modems that work, and a new batch that don't. We've been running
>for over 12 months with no problems until recently (2.2.2) Maybe the
>cyclades driver is a little buggy, and not the modems.
>
>-- 
>  ,-_|\  SneakerNet       |     Andrew Milton    |    GSM: +61(41)6 022 411
> /     \ P.O. Box 154     |  akm@sneaker.net.au  |    Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233
> \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233
>      v  NSW 2137      | Low cost Internet Solutions |
>
>
 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                          ,        ,        |
|                                                         /(        )`       |
|                                                         \ \___   / |       |
|                                                         /- _  `-/  '       |
|                                                        (/\/ \ \   /\       |
|     ExSoCom Dgo. MEXICO                                / /   | `    \      |
|                                                        O O   ) /    |      |
|                                                        `-^--'`<     '      |
|                                                       (_.)  _  )   /       |
|     Alejandro Galindo Chairez                          `.___/`    /        |
|     Tel: (52 18) 179177                                  `-----' /         |
|     Fax: (52 18) 179177                     <----.     __ / __   \         |
|                                             <----|====O)))==) \) /====     |
|    e-mail alejandro.galindo@exsocom.com.mx  <----'    `--' `.__,' \        |
|                                                          |        |        |
|          http://www.exsocom.com.mx                       \       /       /\|
|                                                     ______( (_  / \______/ |
|                                                   ,'  ,-----'   |          |
|                      a FreeBSD user               `--{__________)          |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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To: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box... 
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On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:
> 
>   I don't know where I could find that many shell users.  A system here
> has 14K accounts, but only about a hundred of them actually use shell.
> Where are you finding all these shell users?

    This was at io.org up until 1996 or so.  The customer base, having
built up over the past few years, still had a large portion of shell
users (maybe 30 to 40% used it on a regular basis).  That's obviously
not the case these days.
-- 
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 08:25:04 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:24:58 -0500 (EST)
From: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: vm_fault in tail(1)
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Ok, here is an interesting problem for everyone, I try to tail a specifc
file on a CD that I burned, and tail(1) produces no output, and just
seg-faults, wihout a core dump, and the following errors are written to
syslog:

Jan 24 11:17:49 phoenix /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware)
error, PID 19547 failure
Jan 24 11:17:49 phoenix /kernel: pid 19547 (tail), uid 1000: exited on
signal 11

That sems to suggest there may be something wrong with my paging
partition.... only it is consistent with only that one file, and only on
the cd, I can cp(1) it to the /tmp partition and tail it fine (a diff of
th 2 files reports no diferences), and I use many memory intense
applications, tail is the only program on my system that is tickling this
problem.  Any suggestions (I am running 2.2-STABLE CVSUP-ed from a week
ago with no other problems, on a Pentium 133, with 64M of RAM)

--
David Cross
UNIX Systems Administrator
GE Corporate R&D



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 08:32:03 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:29:26 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: Christoph Toshok <toshok@Hungry.COM>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ?
References: <9801231816.AA10759@mlor.its.rpi.edu> <199801240124.LAA00356@word.smith.net.au> <m2iuravuql.fsf@terror.hungry.com>
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On Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 05:58:58AM -0800, Christoph Toshok wrote:
> mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) writes:
> 
> > 
> > > I think it's a good move for Netscape.  And to keep this somewhat
> > > relevent to the hackers mailing list, it will be certainly a good
> > > move for netscape on FreeBSD...   :-)
> > 
> > What *I'd* like to see/hear would be some commentary from the people 
> > inside Netscape that are responsible for the current port.
> 
> I responded to mike alone, accidentally, instead of the entire list.
> 
> I alone am entirely to blame for the fact that there is a freebsd
> port.  Well, me and the release guy that was kind enough to add it
> to the release builds :)

Does this mean that FreeBSD specific bugs should be sent to you
instead of through the normal Netscape report chain ("the black hole
for bug reports")?

> I'm more than willing to beat up on netscape people who are leaning
> towards a more restrictive license than the GPL.  If any of you have
> contact with such people from, let me know.  I'll be on the look out
> for them as well.

I think there are at least a few variations from the GPL that would be
a good thing here:

(1) Anybody that distribute copies of something dervied from Netscape
should be required to give Netscape a copy on request (for free).
This makes sure Netscape don't have to pay or do extra work to get
features from something derived from Netscape.

(2) Netscape should be allowed to distribute libraries for linking to
3rd parties, without the 3rd party being required to distribute source
code (or object files for linking as in the LGPL).  This should
include cases where people have contributed changes back to Netscape.
(This is to allow competition with the embedded IE4).

I want a license that allow Netscape more rights than they would have
had with the GPL; it shouldn't place many more restrictions on 3rd
parties, but it should allow Netscape to do a lot more than a GPL with
back-contributed code normally does.

Eivind.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 08:33:27 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:33:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: vm_fault in tail(1)
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On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, David E. Cross wrote:

> Ok, here is an interesting problem for everyone, I try to tail a specifc
> file on a CD that I burned, and tail(1) produces no output, and just
> seg-faults, wihout a core dump, and the following errors are written to
> syslog:
> 
> Jan 24 11:17:49 phoenix /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware)
> error, PID 19547 failure
> Jan 24 11:17:49 phoenix /kernel: pid 19547 (tail), uid 1000: exited on
> signal 11
> 

Some further information, I rebooted the machine, and immediately tried
tail(1) after the reboot (with 39M of the 64M listed as free and no VM
usage), same error, and after runnig tail(1), still no VM usage.

--
David Cross
UNIX Systems Administrator
GE Corporate R&D


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 08:51:20 1998
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To: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
cc: Christoph Toshok <toshok@Hungry.COM>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:29:26 BST."
             <19980124172926.36408@follo.net> 
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> > I'm more than willing to beat up on netscape people who are leaning
> > towards a more restrictive license than the GPL.  If any of you have
> > contact with such people from, let me know.  I'll be on the look out
> > for them as well.
> 
> I think there are at least a few variations from the GPL that would be
> a good thing here:
> 
> (1) Anybody that distribute copies of something dervied from Netscape
> should be required to give Netscape a copy on request (for free).
> This makes sure Netscape don't have to pay or do extra work to get
> features from something derived from Netscape.

This is the CMU/Mach approach.  It seems to work pretty well.

> (2) Netscape should be allowed to distribute libraries for linking to
> 3rd parties, without the 3rd party being required to distribute source
> code (or object files for linking as in the LGPL).  This should
> include cases where people have contributed changes back to Netscape.
> (This is to allow competition with the embedded IE4).

I'm not sure I parse you here; you are suggesting that libnetscape.so 
should be subject to LGPL-style conditions?

> I want a license that allow Netscape more rights than they would have
> had with the GPL; it shouldn't place many more restrictions on 3rd
> parties, but it should allow Netscape to do a lot more than a GPL with
> back-contributed code normally does.

If the legal people get it right, that would be ideal.  Whether they're 
open to input is, of course, anyone's guess.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 08:56:15 1998
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To: Christoph Toshok <toshok@Hungry.COM>
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Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "24 Jan 1998 05:58:58 -0800."
             <m2iuravuql.fsf@terror.hungry.com> 
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> 
> I alone am entirely to blame for the fact that there is a freebsd
> port.  Well, me and the release guy that was kind enough to add it
> to the release builds :)

If I haven't been beaten to it before now, and you're in the area, I 
would like to buy you a beer.  Or several.  Or perhaps bear your 
children (just kidding 8).

Seriously though, there's little in the way of thanks that hasn't 
already been said.

> > Given any sort of say in the matter, I would be asking them to take a 
> > fairly active guiding role' as they are in an extremely important 
> > bridging position.
> 
> I must admit a fair amount of ignorance.  You see, the news was sprung
> on me (as it was on everyone at netscape that even *knew*) not long
> the press release was made.  Most of us are just as much in the dark
> as you are.

That's not the point I was trying to make.  Rather, if/when the source 
*does* come onto the scene, with a foot in both the FreeBSD and 
Netscape camps you will be in a position to facilitate communications 
between the two.  
-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 09:08:05 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:07:32 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>, Christoph Toshok <toshok@Hungry.COM>,
        freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ?
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On Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 03:12:58AM +1030, Mike Smith wrote:
> > (2) Netscape should be allowed to distribute libraries for linking to
> > 3rd parties, without the 3rd party being required to distribute source
> > code (or object files for linking as in the LGPL).  This should
> > include cases where people have contributed changes back to Netscape.
> > (This is to allow competition with the embedded IE4).
> 
> I'm not sure I parse you here; you are suggesting that libnetscape.so 
> should be subject to LGPL-style conditions?

No, quite the opposite.  I suggest that Netscape shouldn't be required
to distribute under GPL or LGPL, even when they include changes they
get from the rest of the world.

Eivind.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 09:31:10 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199801241517.QAA04453@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: New snap of sound code
To: dstenn@fanfic.org (Dennis Tenn)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:17:48 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980123105559.296I-100000@fanfic.org> from "Dennis Tenn" at Jan 23, 98 10:57:24 am
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> Luigi.
> 
> Will there be any work re:AWE PnP autodetect code?  I love the fact that
> it works but I was wondering if there will be anything done to the code
> that will make it unnecessary for us to manually enter kernel config mode
> to enable the card.  Just a thought.

considering that PnP autodetect requires quite some effort in the
code (to retrieve used resources from BIOS and check for conflicts
with legacy ISA devices, and then it might still fail as it does
in many BIOSes) and that with the "dset" patches the manual
configuration only needs to be done once (and can be put in
/kernel.config), I don't plan to put any work on this.

	cheers
	luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo                  |  Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it    |  Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533           |  via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522           |  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 09:40:17 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:44:09 -0500
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Subject: Re: Intel 8640 cards 
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At 05:30 PM 1/23/98 -0800, David Greenman wrote:
>>Are the "new" intel 8640 cards fully supported? ( a salesman told me
>>that they are the same at the Pro 100/B...but I'd like to know for certain.
>
>   I don't know what an 8640 is. As Tom said, if it is the Pro/100+, it
should
>work fine and look like a 82557+82555 to the system.

oh..yes I think it is the Pro 100+ .

thanks

Dennis

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 10:01:13 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:46:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Mike <mike@seidata.com>
To: pstewart@oncomdis.on.ca
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Linux --> FreeBSD
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On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 pstewart@oncomdis.on.ca wrote:

>We are in the process as an ISP network provider of switching most if 
>not all machines from Linux to FreeBSD.  As the network admin, I am 
>now faced with learning FreeBSD.  

I think you're in for a pleasant learning experience.  When I started with
my current employer, almost all of my *nix experience was based upon
Linux.  We are a 99% FreeBSD operation (all FreeBSD except a few Linux
workstations).  I enjoy working with FreeBSD...  it has proved very
reliable and secure throughout my time with it.

>One thing I am not totally clear on is the way the passwd.master file 
>is updated.  I can run adduser etc. and put a user online but does 
>that automatically update the passwd.master.

I'm not *totally* clear on this, since I do not know all the system calls,
etc. which are involved in this processes, but I do know that when you run
adduser, /etc/master.passwd is updated automatically.

>Is there a series of howto & info files available on this stuff such 
>as there is with Linux?

Have you checked out the FreeBSD online handbook?  It's available from
http://www.freebsd.org - a lot of great reading.

---
 Mike Hoskins				Kettering University
 SEI Data Network Services, Inc.	CS/CE Dual-Major Program
 mike@seidata.com			hosk0094@kettering.edu
 http://www.seidata.com			http://www.kettering.edu


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 11:36:49 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:36:40 -0600
From: Dan Nelson <dnelson@emsphone.com>
To: Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: -bugs mail doesn't get filtered anymore by my procmailrc
References: <199801240816.IAA19084@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
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In the last episode (Jan 24), Christoph Kukulies said:
> Since the recent hick-up of the freebsd-bugs list
> my .procmailrc filter doesn't seem to work anymore.
> 
> Does anyone know if procmail confines the header size to a certain
> number of lines. The header is quite large and the Sender:
> line is one of the last lines. This is my filter section
> for FreeBSD-bugs:
> 
> ...
> 
> * ^Sender: owner-freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG
> * ^Sender: owner-freebsd-bugs@freeBSD.org
> * ^sender.*owner-freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG
> * ^To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG
> $HOME/Mail/mailing-lists/fbsd-bugs

I don't think procmail has a limit on the number of header lines it
looks at.  I've never had any problems, but then again I always filter
on the "From " header, which is always the first header line in an
email:

:0:
* ^From owner-freebsd-hackers@.*freebsd.org
| ./archive bsdh >> bsdh

Also note that procmail is case-insensitive by default, so in your
setup, line 2 is a duplicate of line 1, and line 3 matches anything
that lines 1 or 2 would match.

	-Dan Nelson
	dnelson@emsphone.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 11:47:03 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:46:43 -0600
From: Dan Nelson <dnelson@emsphone.com>
To: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: vm_fault in tail(1)
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980124112425.19581A-100000@phoenix.its.rpi.edu> <Pine.BSF.3.96.980124113113.549A-100000@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
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In the last episode (Jan 24), David E. Cross said:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, David E. Cross wrote:
> 
> > Ok, here is an interesting problem for everyone, I try to tail a
> > specifc file on a CD that I burned, and tail(1) produces no output,
> > and just seg-faults, wihout a core dump, and the following errors
> > are written to syslog:
> > 
> > Jan 24 11:17:49 phoenix /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably
> > hardware) error, PID 19547 failure
> > Jan 24 11:17:49 phoenix /kernel: pid 19547 (tail), uid 1000: exited
> > on signal 11
> 
> Some further information, I rebooted the machine, and immediately
> tried tail(1) after the reboot (with 39M of the 64M listed as free
> and no VM usage), same error, and after runnig tail(1), still no VM
> usage.

tail(1) mmaps the file it is processing, so your input file is paged-in
just like the swapfile by the vm system.  I've had similar things
happen to me when I run NFS-mounted binaries and the NFS server goes
away.   I'm not a kernel guy, though, so I couldn't imagine what would
be causing it to fail in your case.  Sparse file, maybe?

	-Dan Nelson
	dnelson@emsphone.com

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 12:01:36 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:01:12 +0300 (MSK)
From: Dmitry Khrustalev <dima@bog.msu.su>
Reply-To: Dmitry Khrustalev <dima@bog.msu.su>
To: dennis <dennis@etinc.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Intel 8640 cards
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980123175155.00f23be0@etinc.com>
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On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, dennis wrote:

> 
> 	
> Are the "new" intel 8640 cards fully supported? ( a salesman told me
> that they are the same at the Pro 100/B...but I'd like to know for certain.
> 

They work ok here:

fxp0 <Intel EtherExpress Pro 10/100B Ethernet> rev 4 int a irq 10 on pci0:10
fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:9c:7f:3a
fxp1 <Intel EtherExpress Pro 10/100B Ethernet> rev 4 int a irq 9 on pci0:11
fxp1: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:9c:4a:f4

	-Dima

> thanks,
> 
> dennis
> 


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 12:33:10 1998
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To: Hans Petter Bieker <hanspb@persbraten.vgs.no>
cc: Ted Buswell <tbuswell@mediaone.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "Louis A. Mamakos" <louie@TransSys.COM>
Subject: Re: xdm & login.conf limits. 
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980122174736.1798D-100000@zerium.newmedia.no> 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:50:55 +0100."
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> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Ted Buswell wrote:
> 
> > incorporation in future releases.
> 
> I think xdm should use login.conf when setting env variables. The current
> patch doesn't. I made a hack some months ago that fixes this (it a hack,
> nothing more.)

It would also be nice if the general mechanism could also get a Kerberos
TGT at the same time..

louie



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 12:52:06 1998
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From: "Louis A. Mamakos" <louie@TransSys.COM>
Subject: Re: IPv6 
References: <xzp4t2vb585.fsf@naglfar.ifi.uio.no> <19980123215037.17725@keltia.freenix.fr> <xzp3eiexiy8.fsf@gjallarhorn.ifi.uio.no> 
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> Remember that very soon, IPv6 will no longer be science-fiction or
> just a nifty toy, but a necessity. We are this >< close to exhausting
> the current 32-bit address space...

Uh, there is a big chunk of address space, previously identified as "class-A"
addresses, available.  If you're going to worry about reasons for moving
to IPv6, address space exhaustion in the next few years isn't one of them.

The problem isn't running out of addresses, it keeping the global
routing table size from exploding due to non-aggregatable routes.  



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 13:31:49 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
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On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Dan Nelson wrote:

> on the "From " header, which is always the first header line in an

  From: occurs after 5 or 6 Received headers, a Message-Id header, and a
Date header.  Not exactly at the beginning.

> 	-Dan Nelson
> 	dnelson@emsphone.com
> 
> 

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 13:43:27 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: "Louis A. Mamakos" <louie@TransSys.COM>
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        Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Louis A. Mamakos wrote:

> > Remember that very soon, IPv6 will no longer be science-fiction or
> > just a nifty toy, but a necessity. We are this >< close to exhausting
> > the current 32-bit address space...
> 
> Uh, there is a big chunk of address space, previously identified as "class-A"
> addresses, available.  If you're going to worry about reasons for moving
> to IPv6, address space exhaustion in the next few years isn't one of them.

  Amen to that.  There are _huge_ blocks available on the low end of
address space.  For example 2/8 is reserved.  That's 16 million addresses.

  Also some organizations have wasted a lot of space, probably because
they aren't willing to re-allocate address space.  For example, IBM has
9/8.  I really doubt that IBM has 16 million hosts on the Internet, even
with their Advantis Internet Service.  Also, most of IBM is firewalled and
can only reach the net via a proxy server!  So IBM is giving out perfectly
good 9/8 addresses to workstations that only can reach the Internet via a
proxy server in some other non-9/8 block!

  It appears that BBN has two class A blocks, 4/8 and 8/8.  They only
appear to have recently started to allocated 4/8 it seems...

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 13:54:02 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:38:52 -0500
From: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: fastvid lkm
References: <19980123223708.26224@crh.cl.msu.edu> <199801240343.WAA00438@dyson.iquest.net>
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On the subject of Re: fastvid lkm, John S. Dyson stated:

> Charles Henrich said:
> > How can one tell if its actually helping or hindering?
> > 
> You can turn on the X benchmark mode, it should show the speed improvment (I
> see a 3-4X improvement for certain CPU/Video transfers.) Also, text mode
> scrolling should be faster.  Some bioses might set the memory type registers
> correctly.  Some do not (mine doesn't.)  There was a bug in my initial
> version, in that the memory type was not being set correctly for the video
> mem (it was being set to 0, instead of 1 (write combining).)  The ISA memory
> hole video mem was being set correctly though.
> 
> I don't have time to look at it right now.  Sorry...  Lars is supporting it
> though :-).

Running the lkm makes my display quite unhappy, I guess it isnt for my
motherboard/graphics card :)

-Crh

       Charles Henrich     Michigan State University     henrich@msu.edu

                         http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 14:04:21 1998
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>   Also some organizations have wasted a lot of space, probably because
> they aren't willing to re-allocate address space.  For example, IBM has
> 9/8.  I really doubt that IBM has 16 million hosts on the Internet, even
> with their Advantis Internet Service.

It's worse than that. IBM now also has 32/8, because they bought the
Norwegian service provider NIT, which had picked up 32/8 waaaay back
(NIT would never been able to justify an /8 block these days, of course).

Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 14:24:33 1998
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To: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: fastvid lkm 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:38:52 EST."
             <19980124163852.02128@crh.cl.msu.edu> 
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More details please,

Complete bios settings for cache, Mother board, CPU, graphics cards and
parameters used in fastvid.

	Amancio

> On the subject of Re: fastvid lkm, John S. Dyson stated:
> 
> > Charles Henrich said:
> > > How can one tell if its actually helping or hindering?
> > > 
> > You can turn on the X benchmark mode, it should show the speed improvment (I
> > see a 3-4X improvement for certain CPU/Video transfers.) Also, text mode
> > scrolling should be faster.  Some bioses might set the memory type registers
> > correctly.  Some do not (mine doesn't.)  There was a bug in my initial
> > version, in that the memory type was not being set correctly for the video
> > mem (it was being set to 0, instead of 1 (write combining).)  The ISA memory
> > hole video mem was being set correctly though.
> > 
> > I don't have time to look at it right now.  Sorry...  Lars is supporting it
> > though :-).
> 
> Running the lkm makes my display quite unhappy, I guess it isnt for my
> motherboard/graphics card :)
> 
> -Crh
> 
>        Charles Henrich     Michigan State University     henrich@msu.edu
> 
>                          http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich
> 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 14:26:44 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:27:01 -0500 (EST)
From: jack <jack@germanium.xtalwind.net>
To: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
Subject: Re: -bugs mail doesn't get filtered anymore by my procmailrc
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On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Dan Nelson wrote:
> 
> > on the "From " header, which is always the first header line in an
> 
>   From: occurs after 5 or 6 Received headers, a Message-Id header, and a
> Date header.  Not exactly at the beginning.

In the `raw' mail file, which procmail deals with, "From " /is/ the first
line. "From:" is latter.                                ^
           ^

I don't know about other mail clients, but pine does not even show the
"From " (space, not colon) line even if full headers are enabled.

This is the header of your message cut from /var/mail/jack


>From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG  Sat Jan 24 16:40:21 1998
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack O'Neill                    Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst
jack@germanium.xtalwind.net     Crystal Wind Communications, Inc.
          Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key.
   PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67   FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD
               enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 15:03:22 1998
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To: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@sunyit.edu>
cc: "David E. Wexelblat" <dwex@DataFocus.com>,
        "'devel@XFree86.Org'" <devel@XFree86.Org>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:32:23 EST."
             <199801051338.NAA02521@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> 
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> > Who is your target audience?  Why on earth would I set up
> > a windows box that is doing nothing but running X?  This
> > seems extraordinarily useless - if I wanted a dedicated
> > X machine, I'd run Linux on it.
> > 
> > The only reason to put X on a Windows PC is interoperability.
> 
> no, that's not my point, being able to ALT-TAB or ctrl-esc out of it to
> task switch would be my point, not a lot of people want to install a
> 300+meg O/S just so they can get X. the reason i came up with the idea is

With the PicoBSD distribution , the 300+meg O/S installation to just X is 
a thing of the past 8)

	Cheers,
	Amancio






From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 15:21:14 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
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On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, jack wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Tom wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Dan Nelson wrote:
> > 
> > > on the "From " header, which is always the first header line in an
> > 
> >   From: occurs after 5 or 6 Received headers, a Message-Id header, and a
> > Date header.  Not exactly at the beginning.
> 
> In the `raw' mail file, which procmail deals with, "From " /is/ the first
> line. "From:" is latter.                                ^
>            ^

  Sorry, I haven't used bezerk format mailboxes in years.

  From_ isn't really a header, but a mailbox separator.  It seems bizzare
to filter on a separator, but again procmail is a very bizare filter.

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 15:34:17 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801242333.QAA11301@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ?
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:33:52 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, danny@panda.hilink.com.au, AdamT@smginc.com,
        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sef@kithrup.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
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> I beg to differ.  If Netscape no longer participate in the product,
> then that is good for Microsoft - the Netscape browser becomes yet
> another shareware/freeware product with no real support, etc.
> 
> Granted not everyone thinks like that but some people DO.

You guys all need to go to the NetScape site, and read their whole
roadmap (if you can read a 300 page Novel in an hour without
speed-reading, it should take you about 15 minutes).

After that, you will know that they plan to contribute engineering
resources, maintain a seperate "Pro" product, like Eudora does
(implies productization/stabilization passes), and distribute
"In the spirit of the GPL".

That last could mean anything from "Artistic License, but not GPL
itself", to Sun JAVA-stlye license (the old, good one, not the new,
ugly one), To a BSD style license (unlikely; they would have to
trust MS to obey "not invented here" -- or they could let MS take
the code, and then sieze full editorial control).

I wonder how this will impact other less free browsers?  I know of
at least one that was gaining marketshare on both NS and MS that
will probably be FUD'ed if not actually hurt by the prospect.

Oh, yeah.  The code is not due to be put up for FTP until March
31st; if anyone was expecting "next Monday", they will be disappointed;
I'd say they have a little internal strife over licensing terms and
techniques they will use to leverage the code to settle on before
they will go public.  The delay makes a JAVA-style or "Free for
non-commercial use" style license extremely likely, IMO.

Now, can we move this thread to chat?

					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 15:55:37 1998
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To: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
cc: Christoph Toshok <toshok@Hungry.COM>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Free netscape - good or bad ? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:07:32 BST."
             <19980124180732.15519@follo.net> 
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(Christoph, should I keep you cc'd, or are you on -hackers?)

> > I'm not sure I parse you here; you are suggesting that libnetscape.so 
> > should be subject to LGPL-style conditions?
> 
> No, quite the opposite.  I suggest that Netscape shouldn't be required
> to distribute under GPL or LGPL, even when they include changes they
> get from the rest of the world.

Hmm.  I'm not sure how I feel about that one.  On the one hand, it 
would leave Netscape free to cull the best of the changes made.

On the other, would it imply that if I were to drop some of my hot new 
technology into the Navigator and start offering it, I would also have 
to give it, gratis, to Netscape?

I guess the answer depends on whether Netscape want to see lots of 
Navigator-based offshoots hitting the market.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 15:59:29 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801242359.QAA12224@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: egcs and exceptions
To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:59:16 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980124011506.9195D-100000@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu> from "John Fieber" at Jan 24, 98 01:19:41 am
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> > > Do you also have a magic command line option to make some form of
> > > automatic template instantiation work? :)
> > 
> > Have you tried "-frepo"?  It is supposedly implemented in egcs, though
> > I haven't tried it.
> 
> It sort of works, but some of the more complex STL classes don't
> end up with all their pieces.  I have not completely eliminated
> the possibility of pilot error though...

Which STL implementation are you using?

I have just completed changes to the HP/SGI/Moscow version for
draft 4 and better pthreads support (draft 4 and later requires that
you not statically initialize nutexes anymore, a problem for the
ropeimpl.h, stl_alloc.h, stl_pthread_alloc.h, and stl_lock.h).

The correct way to do this would be to override new/delete, and do
the pthread_init() call to callback there.  Unfortunately, being
a template, that would generate a garbage-scow load of these
functions -- one for each template class.  I'm currently calling
the __THROW_BAD_ALLOC (if you don't have exceptions, it does a
"fprintf(stderr,...); exit(1);" instead, so it's portable).

I haven't sent them in because I'm not sure that everything is
happy.  I'm trying to build the CMU acapd from the Cyrus project
sources, and I'm running into:

/var/tmp/cc011990.s: Assembler messages:
/var/tmp/cc011990.s:53679: Error: Local symbol L23795 never defined.
/var/tmp/cc011990.s:53679: Fatal error:1 error, 0 warnings, no object file generated.

... The .S file is:

L23970: 
L23796: 
        leal -28(%ebp),%eax
        pushl $2
        pushl %eax
        call __$_6String
        addl $8,%esp
        jmp L23968
        .align 2,0x90
L23963: 
        nop
        movl 4(%ebp),%edx
        decl %edx
        movl %edx,___eh_pc
        movl $L23969,4(%ebp)
        jmp L23968
        .align 2,0x90
L23969: 
        call ___throw
        movl $L23963,___eh_pc
        call ___throw
L23968: 
        movl $L23795,___eh_pc
        call ___throw


...I haven't been able to tell if this is a complier bug in FreeBSD
g++ 2.7.2.1, or something I introduced.  8-(.

Have you (or anyone else) ever seen this before?  My suspicion is that
it's coming from a static member function for which g++ is failing
to generate a pseudo-symbol -- like when you do the following in gcc:

main()
{
	char *p = "Hello World!\n" + 6;
	printf( "p = '%s'\n", p);
	printf( "p - 6 = '%s'\n", p - 6);
}


If you want to reproduce the acapd compilation, let me know, I have
a FreeBSD version of configure.in for autoconf, and a Makefile.in
that has been corrected for BSD's make.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 16:00:15 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801242346.QAA11741@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Free Slowaris (was: Free netscape - good or bad ?)
To: akm@mother.sneaker.net.au (Andrew Kenneth Milton)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:46:12 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199801240441.PAA14250@mother.sneaker.net.au> from "Andrew Kenneth Milton" at Jan 24, 98 03:41:56 pm
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> My point being that I don't see people deserting Solaris in droves (at least
> not because they've made the source available), and SunSoft obviously still 
> participate in the ongoing development of their product. Not so much a 
> comment on the difficulty of obtaining source, more a retort to Darren's 
> outlook on life.

I don't see people hacking on Solaris in droves, either.  If that
was their intent, it has failed.

If it were actually out there "free for non-commercial use" with
some restriction lifts so I could hack on it *and* still hack on
FreeBSD, then I'd probably have a JAZ disk with Solaris on it.

As it is, I can hack on FreeBSD, and if Solaris wants it, they can
take the ideas and pay someone else to become "contaminated" by
having seen their code, and integrate my ideas.

This is, of course, more expensive for them; if they were clever
they would have put it out under JAVA-style license; we would all
carefully develope for FreeBSD first (of course) to keep the porting
direction pure of "free for non-commercial use" restrictions, but
at least someone would actually be hacking on the thing for them.

I, for one, have a hard time trusting a revocable JAVA license,
however: fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 16:00:53 1998
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To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
cc: dstenn@fanfic.org (Dennis Tenn), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
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Subject: Re: New snap of sound code 
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> > Will there be any work re:AWE PnP autodetect code?  I love the fact that
> > it works but I was wondering if there will be anything done to the code
> > that will make it unnecessary for us to manually enter kernel config mode
> > to enable the card.  Just a thought.
> 
> considering that PnP autodetect requires quite some effort in the
> code (to retrieve used resources from BIOS and check for conflicts
> with legacy ISA devices, and then it might still fail as it does
> in many BIOSes) and that with the "dset" patches the manual
> configuration only needs to be done once (and can be put in
> /kernel.config), I don't plan to put any work on this.

... but if anyone does I would be more than happy to pass on the 
information I have assembled to date on what is required (and such 
fragments of code as I have for this).  The real challenge (for me at 
any rate) is dealing with calling the BIOS.  If you're an x86 stud
that's looking for a neat challenge, I could do with some help. 8)
-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 16:11:43 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: taob@nbc.netcom.ca, leec@adam.adonai.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box... 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:05:07 GMT."
             <199801250005.RAA12408@usr04.primenet.com> 
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:10:10 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> It also requires switching over to devfs, which you have opposed,
> so, far.

And when devfs is ready to switch to, I'll cease to oppose it as a
default there.  Do you run your -current box strictly off of DEVFS
now?  If not, why not?  Could it perhaps be that there are still too
many gotchas and evolving mechanisms there to make it a very safe bet
for anyone right now in -current? :)

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 16:11:59 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801250011.RAA12627@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: IPv6
To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm?rgrav)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:11:40 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dag-erli@ifi.uio.no
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> Also, much of /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin and /usr/sbin will break when IPv6
> finally hits the street, because of assumptions such as IP addresses
> being four bytes long, etc. Making this software indifferent to the
> particular IP version they run on would give FreeBSD a serious
> advantage on "the day when the Internet switches to IPv6".
> 
> Remember that very soon, IPv6 will no longer be science-fiction or
> just a nifty toy, but a necessity. We are this >< close to exhausting
> the current 32-bit address space...

Is there a seperate address family for this?

I have some experimental stuff I never followed up on (it would
require being able to use dlopen() in a statically linked binary,
which you couldn't do at the time) to unify the address family
management functions.  My plan was to get the XNS and ISO and X.25
code back from Limbo with it.

It seems to me that the same code could take care of your problem;
if you could look something up without resorting to naming the
family you are looking up, then all of these things would be
transparent.  As usual, I got busy digging the moat instead of
building the castle ;-), and went of on a tanget trying to get
a netbios address family wedged into the kernel so Id have
something to test with (the XNS/X.25/ISO stuff needs to be
brought up to date as a matter of principle, not because I
actually have any hardware that can use it 8-)).


Basically, it takes the resolver library and loads shared objects
based on address family space in which you are looking.  Novell did
something very similar for the port of the Portable NetWare (later
NetWare for UNIX) code to the NeXT machines.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 16:18:06 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199801250005.RAA12408@usr04.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Had the shotgun out and pointed at my -current/SMP box...
To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:05:07 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: taob@nbc.netcom.ca, leec@adam.adonai.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <12440.885627653@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 23, 98 11:40:53 pm
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> > that could comfortably handle ~100 users.  With today's CPU's and the
> > price of memory, it's too bad we can only get 256 pty's per machine.
> > I'll bet a nice Pentium II system could handle 500 shell users.
> 
> Yeah, if only someone (sigh) would take up that cloning PTY driver
> project, such arbitrary limits would be unnecessary.  [he gazes
> wistfully off into the distance :-)]

I have a cloning pty driver and cloning bfs and tun and vnode
drivers as well.

It requires some semantic changes to the devfs that PHK and Julian
have opposed, so far.  Specifically, I have to be able to open a
directory and treat it as a device, and then I need clone ioctl()'s
(this is a better approach than using an alternate vp passback, as
someone suggested).

It also requires switching over to devfs, which you have opposed,
so, far.

So, when we switching -current to solely devfs?  8-).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 16:28:25 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:43:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Chuck <crtb@capecod.net>
To: Alejandro Galindo <agalindo@servidor.exsocom.com.mx>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Modem Speed in ttys and gettytab  files
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How about the control leads?  It might help if you have a breakout box,
to monitor the RS-232 signals.  Kermit should raise DTR (pin 20 at the
modem) and RS (pin 4 at the modem).  The modem should respond with its
own CS (pin 5) and DSR (pin 6).  Pin 8 asserts CD and should only come
on when a connection has been made over the phone line.  If Kermit can
assert pins 4 and 20 (I forget what pin numbers at the 9-pin connector),
the modem should respond to AT commands at all speeds.
        Chuck Bacon -- crtb@capecod.net
                ABHOR SECRECY -- DEFEND PRIVACY

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Alejandro Galindo wrote:

>         i set speed 115200 with kermit, the problem now is the modem not
> respond to "at" commands, next i set the speed to 19200 but the modem dont
> respond to "at" commands, i use the tip program for configure the modems
> (like kermit) but i cant configure the modem to factory at&f, how can i do?.
> 
>         With other modem, i use the "mgetty -s 115200" in ttys file and it
> works (from reply Jim Bryant <jbryant@unix.tfs.net>) and the comunication is
> most faster  now we have an average round-trip (with ping) of 140 ms in the
> past the average was 230 ms (betwen the server and
>  the interface pppc00.mydomain --> /dev/ttyc00).
> 
> the question now is why if the modem works well with mgetty and 115200 of
> speed  when i set the speed with kermit to 115200 the modem is'nt work?
> 
> thank you for your replys
> Saludos
> Alejandro


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 17:12:52 1998
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From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: cloning drivers
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On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Terry Lambert wrote:

> I have a cloning pty driver and cloning bfs and tun and vnode
> drivers as well.

  Can it become more generic so that any driver can be cloned?

  It seems silly to me that I need to recompile the kernel to support an
additional (but identical to the first) ethernet card.  

  It seems to me that some of the PCI devices do this somewhat
automatically right now?  IE. if you added a "device de0", it
automatically makes devices de0 to de(N-1) for N DEC ethernet cards?

Tom


From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 17:37:44 1998
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To: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
cc: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: cloning drivers 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:56:22 -0800."
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> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Terry Lambert wrote:
> 
> > I have a cloning pty driver and cloning bfs and tun and vnode
> > drivers as well.
> 
>   Can it become more generic so that any driver can be cloned?
> 
>   It seems silly to me that I need to recompile the kernel to support an
> additional (but identical to the first) ethernet card.  
> 
>   It seems to me that some of the PCI devices do this somewhat
> automatically right now?  IE. if you added a "device de0", it
> automatically makes devices de0 to de(N-1) for N DEC ethernet cards?

You're confusing a couple of related issues here.

A cloning driver is one where you walk up to some control node and say 
"I'll have a new one of these, thanks".  It's most useful for logical 
entities (like ptys, or bpfilter handles).

On the other hand, the number of instances of a device that a driver 
handles internally is dependant on the driver's internal policy.

Most drivers allocate a fixed-size static array of instance references 
at compile time.  This is done because at runtime they are (currently) 
only provided with their major/minor numbers when their entrypoints are 
called, and so lookup for the corresponding instance is easiest when 
simply indexing into the array.

This is what Jean-Mark Gurney is working on in the "interrupt argument 
to void *" thread, and one of the things that DEVFS aims to combat.  By 
allowing the driver to specify a token that will be handed back to it 
on entry, it becomes possible to dynamically allocate device instances 
and address them efficiently.

All it takes is developer time.  Want to get involved?


> Tom
> 
> 

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\ 



From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 17:58:57 1998
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On Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 11:59:41AM +1030, Mike Smith wrote:
>
> This is what Jean-Mark Gurney

You're doing well on names lately, aren't you?

Mispeling you what
Grog

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 18:37:10 1998
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Subject: Re: cloning drivers
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> > I have a cloning pty driver and cloning bfs and tun and vnode
> > drivers as well.
> 
>   Can it become more generic so that any driver can be cloned?

No.  You can only clone drivers for devices under a controller.  The
cloning process is implicitly hierarchical.  Consider trying to clone
sio devices without more serial ports or disk devices without more
disks.  It's non-sensical.

Cloning tends to only apply to psuedo devices.  Like PTY's, BPF,
TUN, VN devices, etc..  Effectively, it's a minor number MUX,
and little else.


>   It seems silly to me that I need to recompile the kernel to support an
> additional (but identical to the first) ethernet card.  

Not identical.  If it were identical, it'd be mapped to the same address
space and IRQ.  You wouldn't be able to detect it.  8-).


>   It seems to me that some of the PCI devices do this somewhat
> automatically right now?  IE. if you added a "device de0", it
> automatically makes devices de0 to de(N-1) for N DEC ethernet cards?
> 
Sort of.  PCI devices have their own mapping space.

I recommend the Mindshare book "CardBus Architecture".


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-hackers  Sat Jan 24 18:44:25 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
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At 07:11 PM 1/24/98 , Terry Lambert wrote:
>> Also, much of /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin and /usr/sbin will break when IPv6
>> finally hits the street, because of assumptions such as IP addresses
>> being four bytes long, etc. Making this software indifferent to the
>> particular IP version they run on would give FreeBSD a serious
>> advantage on "the day when the Internet switches to IPv6".
>> 
>> Remember that very soon, IPv6 will no longer be science-fiction or
>> just a nifty toy, but a necessity. We are this >< close to exhausting
>> the current 32-bit address space...
>
>Is there a seperate address family for this?

Yes.  AF_INET6/PF_INET6.  There is one RFC and one draft RFC
regarding the socket APIs to IPv6.

-- 
Matt Thomas               Internet:   matt@3am-software.com
3am Software Foundry      WWW URL:    http://www.3am-software.com/bio/matt/
Nashua, NH                Disclaimer: I disavow all knowledge of this message