From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 00:03:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17929 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:03:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA17924 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:03:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA08929; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:03:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802080803.AAA08929@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Damon Permezel cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:03:31 CST." <199802080503.XAA10438@damon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 00:03:25 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Try surfing around the Intel Web site : "This manual describes the instruction set and the opcode structure, including the new Intel MMX(TM) technology instruction set, for Intel Architecture ..." http://developer.intel.com/design/mmx/manuals/243191.htm Look around their ftp site for other stuff related to what you want to do. Most likely for low end processors the mmx instruction set is used for scaling and yuv to rgb conversion . The manual is in acrobat format and you will need the linux version of acroread if you want to read the doc. If you have any problems locating acroread e-mail me. Happy downloading 8) Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 00:04:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA18112 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:04:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA18107 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:04:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA08941; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:04:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802080804.AAA08941@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Damon Permezel cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:03:31 CST." <199802080503.XAA10438@damon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 00:04:39 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry I forgot to mentioned that a little while ago someone posted patches to gcc to add MMX instruction set so do a mail search over at http://www.freebsd.org to find out who posted it. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 00:27:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20937 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:27:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (bhSNPNri6Lim1O6Q9xfpnPtqJdvcDu8c@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20886 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:27:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11120; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:26:59 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dap) From: Damon Permezel Message-Id: <199802080826.CAA11120@damon.com> Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc In-Reply-To: <199802080736.AAA28517@usr02.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 8, 98 07:36:33 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:26:59 -0600 (CST) Cc: dap@damon.com, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Terry Lambert sez: " > MMX resuses the FP registers. This is because they couldn't define new > registers because new registers would not get saved and restored on > process context switch for any existing OS's. > > Thus if you use FP, you can not use MMX, and vice versa. I've just recoded it all to use fixed point, in anticipation of being able to use multiply-accumulate with MMX. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 02:39:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA05534 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:39:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA05529 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:38:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA22494 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 06:40:44 GMT Message-ID: <004901bd347d$19550300$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: what about future domain? Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 05:34:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sorry to ask, but did any support ever surface for the Future Domain scsi controllers? who can i contact? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 02:58:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07570 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:58:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wafu.netgate.net (wafu.netgate.net [204.145.147.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA07552 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:57:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shigio@wafu.netgate.net) Message-Id: <199802081057.CAA07552@hub.freebsd.org> Received: (qmail 28305 invoked from network); 8 Feb 1998 02:58:35 -0000 Received: from ins45.tama-ap3.dti.ne.jp (HELO chiota.signet.or.jp) (203.181.67.45) by wafu.netgate.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 1998 02:58:35 -0000 Received: from chiota.signet.or.jp (localhost.signet.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by chiota.signet.or.jp (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA00397; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:56:42 +0900 (JST) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: shigio@wafu.netgate.net Subject: bsd.prog.mk for new global(1) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 19:56:41 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Now, global(1) in -current can understand 'obj' directory of BSD build system, you can put tag files in 'obj' directory. For example, % cd /usr/src/sys % gtags /usr/obj/usr/src/sys <- make tag files in 'obj' directory. % ls GTAGS ls: GTAGS: No such file or directory % global -x fork fork 86 kern/kern_fork.c fork(p, uap, retval) So, following modification would be useful, I think. [/usr/share/mk/bsd.prog.mk] .if !target(tags) tags: ${SRCS} _SUBDIR .if defined(PROG) cd ${.CURDIR} && gtags ${GTAGSFLAGS} ${.OBJDIR} ...(1) .if defined(HTML) cd ${.CURDIR} && htags ${HTAGSFLAGS} -d ${.OBJDIR} ${.OBJDIR} ...(2) .endif .endif .endif (1) Gtags put tag files in ${.OBJDIR}. (2) Htags locates tag files in ${.OBJDIR} and put hypertext in ${.OBJDIR}. [/usr/share/mk/sys.mk] # For tags rule. GTAGSFLAGS= -o HTAGSFLAGS= -o option suppress making GSYMS file (it's very large). What do you think? -- Shigio Yamaguchi (Freelance programmer) Mail: shigio@wafu.netgate.net, WWW: http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 03:32:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11921 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 03:32:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA11912 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 03:32:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id MAA19320 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:32:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id MAA11326; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:18:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980208121815.35936@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:18:15 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199802080503.XAA10438@damon.com> <199802080804.AAA08941@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802080804.AAA08941@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sun, Feb 08, 1998 at 12:04:39AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4049 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Amancio Hasty: > Sorry I forgot to mentioned that a little while ago someone posted > patches to gcc to add MMX instruction set so do a mail search > over at http://www.freebsd.org to find out who posted it. Look into the PR list, it was submitted as such. The alternative is to use binutils-2.8.1, the GNU as there understands MMX instructions. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #56: Fri Feb 6 21:36:56 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 09:18:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12313 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:18:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from istari.home.net (cc158233-a.catv1.md.home.com [24.3.25.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12301 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:18:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sjr@home.net) Received: (from sjr@localhost) by istari.home.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA02604 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:17:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:17:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Stephen J. Roznowski" Message-Id: <199802081717.MAA02604@istari.home.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Possible problems with sysctl Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG While looking at some sysctl output, I noticed two problem: 1. sysctl can only output signed integers. For example, the output of "sysctl kern.ps_strings" is "-272637968" not "0xefbfdff0" as I suspect is meant. Assuming that this is an error, I see two ways of fixing it, either adding a "CTLTYPE_UINT" type, or a "CTLTYPE_ADDR" type. [I lean towards the _ADDR fix] Am I correct in assuming that sysctl is outputing the wrong format here, and is one of these fixes perferred? [I'm willing to attempt to generate a send-pr for this] 2. The man pages, both sysctl(3) and sysctl(8), are out of date. [No definitation of what kern.ps_strings is for example.] Is there a list anywhere of what these variables are (modulo source code)? Again, I'm willing to send-pr this, unless someone else wants to... :-) Thanks, -SR To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 10:15:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17008 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:15:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16999 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:15:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.4) with UUCP id SAA05600; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:14:18 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:11:54 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004901bd347d$19550300$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:08:04 +0000 To: "Alfred Perlstein" From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: what about future domain? Cc: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:34 am +0000 8/2/98, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >sorry to ask, but did any support ever surface for the Future Domain scsi >controllers? who can i contact? http://www.sbox.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rmike/freebsd/welcome.html -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 13:22:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04969 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:22:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA04949 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:21:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id UAA13052; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:51:05 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802081951.UAA13052@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Bootblock sizes (was bad144 ravings) To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:51:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802072254.OAA07140@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 7, 98 02:54:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ok, just to put some perspective on things, so that people understand > the situation. > > The issue at hand here is the size of the 'boot2' file, which may not > exceed 14 sectors @ 512B each (in order to fit on a 15spt disk), or > 7168 bytes. > > Let us look at some sizes (in bytes). The 'Bare' bootblock has serial > console support, but nothing else fancy. > > Config Size Feature bulk > ------ ---- ------------ > Bare 6560 0 (room for 608 bytes) is this /usr/mdec/boot2 ? In which case, why (on 2.2.1 at least) the first 512 bytes are all zero ? (for the records, I was playing these days with simple compression algorithms, like the "pred.c" in iijppp, or some other simple things (so that the code to uncompress is reasonably small) but the savings are not big (perhaps 100 bytes, including the extractor overhead). This excludes the first 512 zeros, which probably can be easily ripped off ? cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 13:33:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06318 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:33:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06313 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:33:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00992; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:32:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802082132.NAA00992@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bootblock sizes (was bad144 ravings) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:51:05 +0100." <199802081951.UAA13052@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:32:20 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Let us look at some sizes (in bytes). The 'Bare' bootblock has serial > > console support, but nothing else fancy. > > > > Config Size Feature bulk > > ------ ---- ------------ > > Bare 6560 0 (room for 608 bytes) > > is this /usr/mdec/boot2 ? In which case, why (on 2.2.1 at least) the > first 512 bytes are all zero ? So that the bootblock can live in the same area of the disk as a disklabel. > (for the records, I was playing these days with simple compression > algorithms, like the "pred.c" in iijppp, or some other simple things > (so that the code to uncompress is reasonably small) but the savings > are not big (perhaps 100 bytes, including the extractor overhead). This > excludes the first 512 zeros, which probably can be easily ripped off ? In my case at least, that part of the disk is not actually empty: 00000200 57 45 56 82 05 00 00 00 77 64 30 73 32 00 00 00 |WEV.....wd0s2...| 00000210 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................| 00000220 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 3f 00 00 00 |............?...| 00000230 40 00 00 00 bd 01 00 00 c0 0f 00 00 c0 60 1b 00 |@............`..| 00000240 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 10 0e 01 00 00 00 00 00 |................| 00000250 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................| * 00000280 00 00 00 00 57 45 56 82 a9 95 08 00 00 20 00 00 |....WEV...... ..| 00000290 00 20 00 00 00 f0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |. ..............| 000002a0 07 00 00 00 00 20 03 00 00 f0 00 00 00 00 00 00 |..... ..........| 000002b0 01 00 00 00 c0 60 1b 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.....`..........| 000002c0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................| 000002d0 00 00 00 00 00 d0 07 00 00 10 04 00 00 00 00 00 |................| 000002e0 07 00 00 00 c0 80 0f 00 00 e0 0b 00 00 00 00 00 |................| 000002f0 07 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................| 00000300 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................| * The first four bytes there are DISKMAGIC (see /sys/sys/disklabel.h). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 13:39:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07178 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:39:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07160 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:39:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02591; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:39:31 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA03841; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:39:29 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980208223929.01276@follo.net> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:39:29 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Stephen J. Roznowski" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible problems with sysctl References: <199802081717.MAA02604@istari.home.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199802081717.MAA02604@istari.home.net>; from Stephen J. Roznowski on Sun, Feb 08, 1998 at 12:17:33PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Feb 08, 1998 at 12:17:33PM -0500, Stephen J. Roznowski wrote: > While looking at some sysctl output, I noticed two problem: > [problem I don't know anything about zipped] > > 2. The man pages, both sysctl(3) and sysctl(8), are out of date. > [No definitation of what kern.ps_strings is for example.] Is there > a list anywhere of what these variables are (modulo source code)? > Again, I'm willing to send-pr this, unless someone else wants to... :-) There is no list except for the source code. We were talking about this on the list a few weeks ago, and came up with the following as the preferred implementation: 1. All sysctl variables in the source code should be documented through either an extra argument or a formalized comment. Preferences varied; I prefer the extra argument. Such an argument would normally not be included in the actual running kernel. 2. The above mentioned documentation should be extracted to a file in CVS that is copied to /usr/share// by a script that parse the kernel source. At least some of the committers has said themselves willing to document whatever sysctl's they've introduced as soon as the format is fixed and the infrastructure is in place. I've put writing the necessary parsing scripts on my mental TODO-list, but it will be some time before I can do it; I have other things that have to be prioritized higher. If you have time and ability to write such a script, I'd be very happy if you took it off my hands. I'll be able to provide help if necessary, but I don't have time right now to just sit down and fix it all. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 16:05:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27050 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:05:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27011 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:05:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11233; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:04:15 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199802090004.WAA11233@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: byte ordering and talk? In-Reply-To: <199802071416.PAA04586@ocean.campus.luth.se> from Mikael Karpberg at "Feb 7, 98 03:16:22 pm" To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:04:15 -0200 (EDT) Cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu, adrian@obiwan.creative.net.au, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Mikael Karpberg) // > 2: ntalk/talk there are 2 differnt talk protocols, everyone uses one // > (can't remember), sun uses the other. (check /etc/inetd.conf and // > /etc/services, they bind to different ports.) // // Everyone uses ntalk, except for SUN. // So go install ntalk on the SUN machines, and you'll be fine. Easy to do, when you are the SUN machines' admin, but I'd like to have otalk available to be able to talk to people without a good admin. :( Does somebody know where I can find the sources for the old talk protocol ? I'd make a port of it, if Core Team thinks it's not worth putting into the core distribution. Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 16:17:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28676 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:17:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28539; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:15:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11315; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:15:40 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199802090015.WAA11315@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: bin/5448 /etc/monthly reports are incorrect In-Reply-To: from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Feb 5, 98 09:44:40 pm" To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:15:39 -0200 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Daniel O'Callaghan) // I'd like to propose the files below as new /etc/monthly and // /etc/periodic/monthly/200.accounting, pending development of a logrotate // command. I don't think I'll get logrotate done in time for 2.2.6, but I // think that the current system of rotating wtmp in /etc/newsyslog.conf, // and generating "monthly" reports of account activity leaves a lot to be // desired. This will allow PRs 1708, 1941 and 5448 to be closed. It's ok for 1708 and 5448, but I can't see how this solves 1941. The pending for a real logrotate will make easier to have this kind of report weekly instead of monthly. Just change the script directory. Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 16:19:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29038 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:19:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29032 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:19:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11332; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:18:52 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199802090018.WAA11332@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: <199802052006.MAA10605@bubba.whistle.com> from Archie Cobbs at "Feb 5, 98 12:06:28 pm" To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:18:52 -0200 (EDT) Cc: marcs@znep.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Archie Cobbs) // Marc Slemko writes: // > Feb 4 16:08:27 zaius /kernel: ipfw: 320 Deny UDP 199.170.121.15:14592 198.161.84.2:2 in via de0 Fragment = 29 // > // > Trust me, those port numbers are not right. ipfw should not log the // > port number if a packet is a fragment. // // Good point... patch below fixes it. Maybe a stupid question: If you filter by port, only the first frag may be filtered. Then, what will happen to the destination machine, receiving lots of incomplete packets ? Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 16:40:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01818 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:40:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01753 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:39:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id RAA00973; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:39:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21551; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:38:42 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:38:42 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis cc: Archie Cobbs , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: <199802090018.WAA11332@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > #define quoting(Archie Cobbs) > // Marc Slemko writes: > // > Feb 4 16:08:27 zaius /kernel: ipfw: 320 Deny UDP 199.170.121.15:14592 198.161.84.2:2 in via de0 Fragment = 29 > // > > // > Trust me, those port numbers are not right. ipfw should not log the > // > port number if a packet is a fragment. > // > // Good point... patch below fixes it. > > Maybe a stupid question: > > If you filter by port, only the first frag may be filtered. Then, what will > happen to the destination machine, receiving lots of incomplete packets ? If you don't explicitly tell ipfw to pass frags, it will not. That will break some things, but is the safest way. If you do tell it to pass them, then it will. There is no real problem (except for possible memory use, etc.) if a host gets fragements for a packet; if it doesn't get the first part, it will not do anything with them. See RFC-1858 for a discussion of some of the potential catches to fragmentation and firewalls. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 18:00:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10114 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:00:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10100 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:00:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@zeta.org.au) Received: from gurney.reilly.home (d65.syd2.zeta.org.au [203.26.11.65]) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18206; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:53:12 +1100 Received: (from andrew@localhost) by gurney.reilly.home (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA03377; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:54:52 +1100 (EST) From: Andrew Reilly Message-Id: <199802082254.JAA03377@gurney.reilly.home> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:54:52 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc To: tlambert@primenet.com cc: dap@damon.com, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802080736.AAA28517@usr02.primenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 8 Feb, Terry Lambert wrote: > MMX resuses the FP registers. This is because they couldn't define new > registers because new registers would not get saved and restored on > process context switch for any existing OS's. > > Thus if you use FP, you can not use MMX, and vice versa. MMX and the virtues of integer math aside, I have a question for the kernel hackers: Just how hard would it be to be able to build a special case FreeBSD kernel that knew how to save some extra registers at a context switch? Aparently there's to be a new version of the IDT Centaur C6 later this year that allows you to map the floating point stack into seven of about _30_ real, indexable floating point registers, and matches this with pipelined, single-cylce-dispatch multiply-accumulate instructions. For the sort of work that I do, this would be the absolute bees knees. Acording to Byte, they plan to get around the problem of Windows (NT) not saving the extra state by making sure that you only use it inside their Direct3D libraries, but that seems like a dumb option for a system like FreeBSD that is fully re-compilable, and therefore readily able to take advantage of developments like this... -- Andrew "The steady state of disks is full." -- Ken Thompson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 19:45:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22531 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:45:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA22514 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:45:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jason_smethers@bigfoot.com) Received: from geocities.com (mail4.geocities.com [209.1.224.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17336 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:44:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from jason (56K-045.MaxTNT3.pdq.net [209.144.229.45]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA18554 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:43:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003d01bd350b$8d872a80$016f6f6f@jason> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: Subject: userland updates Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:33:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01BD34D9.4174C080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BD34D9.4174C080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have some diffs to cat, chio, and cp. If someone with commit privledges would like to look 'em over and commit... These incorperate some fixes and most noteably the ielem option to chio. heres the diffs... ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BD34D9.4174C080 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="bin.cat.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="bin.cat.diff" T25seSBpbiAvdXNyL3NyYy9iaW4vY2F0OiBjYXQKZGlmZiAtYyAtciAvdXNyL3NyYy9iaW4vY2F0 L2NhdC4xIC91c3IvbG9jYWwvc3JjL2Jpbi9jYXQvY2F0LjEKKioqIC91c3Ivc3JjL2Jpbi9jYXQv Y2F0LjEJU2F0IEZlYiAyMiAwODowMToyNiAxOTk3Ci0tLSAvdXNyL2xvY2FsL3NyYy9iaW4vY2F0 L2NhdC4xCU1vbiBGZWIgIDIgMTg6MTg6MzQgMTk5OAoqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioKKioqIDEzLDE5 ICoqKioKICAuXCIgICAgbm90aWNlLCB0aGlzIGxpc3Qgb2YgY29uZGl0aW9ucyBhbmQgdGhlIGZv bGxvd2luZyBkaXNjbGFpbWVyIGluIHRoZQogIC5cIiAgICBkb2N1bWVudGF0aW9uIGFuZC9vciBv dGhlciBtYXRlcmlhbHMgcHJvdmlkZWQgd2l0aCB0aGUgZGlzdHJpYnV0aW9uLgogIC5cIiAzLiBB bGwgYWR2ZXJ0aXNpbmcgbWF0ZXJpYWxzIG1lbnRpb25pbmcgZmVhdHVyZXMgb3IgdXNlIG9mIHRo aXMgc29mdHdhcmUKISAuXCIgICAgbXVzdCBkaXNwbGF5IHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgYWNrbm93bGVk 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LnBfcGF0aCk7CiEgCQkJcmV0dXJuICgxKTsKISAJCX0KICAJfQohIAlyZXR1cm4gKDApOwogIH0K ICAKICB2b2lkCiAgdXNhZ2UoKQogIHsKICAJKHZvaWQpZnByaW50ZihzdGRlcnIsICIlc1xuJXNc biIsCiEgCSJ1c2FnZTogY3AgWy1SIFstSCB8IC1MIHwgLVBdXSBbLWZpcF0gc3JjIHRhcmdldCIs CiEgCSIgICAgICAgY3AgWy1SIFstSCB8IC1MIHwgLVBdXSBbLWZpcF0gc3JjMSAuLi4gc3JjTiBk aXJlY3RvcnkiKTsKICAJZXhpdCgxKTsKICB9Ck9ubHkgaW4gL3Vzci9zcmMvYmluL2NwOiB1dGls cy5vCg== ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BD34D9.4174C080-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 22:01:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA10184 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:01:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA10160 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:01:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA23837; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:01:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma023835; Sun Feb 8 22:00:53 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA12310; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:00:53 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802090600.WAA12310@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: from Marc Slemko at "Feb 8, 98 05:38:42 pm" To: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:00:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Marc Slemko writes: > If you don't explicitly tell ipfw to pass frags, it will not. That will > break some things, but is the safest way. This is not correct.. ipfw will always block fragments whose offset is one (only seen in attempts to subvert firewalls) but not ordinary fragments... that would be a serious problem. > There is no real problem > (except for possible memory use, etc.) if a host gets fragements for a > packet; if it doesn't get the first part, it will not do anything with > them. This is true. > See RFC-1858 for a discussion of some of the potential catches to > fragmentation and firewalls. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 22:18:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13742 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:17:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13684 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:17:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id XAA09290; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:16:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23334; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:15:58 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:15:57 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: Archie Cobbs cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: <199802090600.WAA12310@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Archie Cobbs wrote: > Marc Slemko writes: > > If you don't explicitly tell ipfw to pass frags, it will not. That will > > break some things, but is the safest way. > > This is not correct.. ipfw will always block fragments whose offset > is one (only seen in attempts to subvert firewalls) but not ordinary > fragments... that would be a serious problem. Ok, let me clarify that statement. First, ipfw always blocks certain types of fragments that are used only to bypass firewalls. Second, it will block any fragment that _could_ match any deny rule even if it has incomplete information so it doesn't know that it _does_ match the rule. Since the tcp header is normally only in the first fragment, if you block access to a specific port then ipfw can't know if subsequent fragments are to that port or not so it blocks them. You need to add an explicit rule to allow it to pass such fragments if the risk is acceptable to you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 22:24:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14719 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:24:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14695; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:24:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id GAA00832; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:23:45 GMT Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:23:45 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Eivind Eklund cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options) In-Reply-To: <199802061241.EAA24833@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind, I'd like to see "sanity checks" (assertions) and diagnostic logging separated. DIAGNOSTICS turns on both, but I'd like to be able to run an assertion checking kernel without all the logging. Do you think that DIAGNOSTICS can be separated into these 2 categories without upsetting too many people? What does DEBUG do? Can all sanity checks be moved to DEBUG? This would give us more clearly defined debugging flags: DIAGNOSTICS - Debug logging DEBUG - Sanity checks DDS - GDB callable debug functions. Regards, Mike Hancock On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > eivind 1998/02/06 04:41:39 PST > > Modified files: > sys/conf options > Log: > Throw DEBUG and DIAGNOSTIC in opt_global.h > > Revision Changes Path > 1.59 +4 -3 src/sys/conf/options > -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 22:51:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20689 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:51:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20661 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:51:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA06773; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:51:28 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id HAA03687; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:51:27 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980209075127.63680@follo.net> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:51:27 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Michael Hancock Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options) References: <199802061241.EAA24833@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Michael Hancock on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 03:23:45PM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 03:23:45PM +0900, Michael Hancock wrote: > Eivind, > > I'd like to see "sanity checks" (assertions) and diagnostic logging > separated. DIAGNOSTICS turns on both, but I'd like to be able to run an > assertion checking kernel without all the logging. Absolutely agreed. I was thinking of _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive) _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions. DIAGNOSTIC - Messages to help tracing errors; non-overwhelming amount. The difference between _INVARIANTS and INVARIANT_CODE is that INVARIANT_CODE just includes the actual code necessary to be able to check an invariant, while _INVARIANTS actually throw in the code that do calls to check the invariant. The reason for the underscores is that header files are likely to depend on those options. The separation of the INVARIANT_CODE and _INVARIANTS is to be able to support enabling invariant-checks in only some files. Separation of _INVARIANTS and _ASSERTS is that there is often a factor of >1000 difference between the cost of checking pre-conditions and the cost of checking post-conditions/data-structure invariants. Example of how the above would affect source-code: The following would be the diffs to kern/tty_subr.c to implement a clist invariant. (It is some of the code I've got lying around of the type nobody-seems-to-be-interested-so-I-won't-commit-it-until- it-seems-I-can-find-a-nice-way-to-fit-it-in). Index: tty_subr.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/tty_subr.c,v retrieving revision 1.28 diff -u -r1.28 tty_subr.c --- tty_subr.c 1997/10/12 20:24:09 1.28 +++ tty_subr.c 1998/02/09 06:37:34 @@ -112,6 +112,10 @@ cblock_free(cblockp) struct cblock *cblockp; { +#ifdef _ASSERTS + if ((unsigned long)cblockp & (CBLOCK-1)) + panic("Unaligned cblock in cblock_free"); +#endif if (isset(cblockp->c_quote, CBQSIZE * NBBY - 1)) bzero(cblockp->c_quote, sizeof cblockp->c_quote); cblockp->c_next = cfreelist; @@ -136,6 +140,10 @@ "clist_alloc_cblocks: M_NOWAIT malloc failed, trying M_WAITOK\n"); cbp = malloc(sizeof *cbp, M_TTYS, M_WAITOK); } +#ifdef _ASSERTS + if ((unsigned long)cbp & (CBLOCK-1)) + panic("Unaligned cblock alloced in cblock_alloc_cblocks"); +#endif /* * Freed cblocks have zero quotes and garbage elsewhere. * Set the may-have-quote bit to force zeroing the quotes. @@ -260,6 +268,117 @@ return (chr); } +#if defined(INVARIANT_CODE) || defined(_INVARIANTS) +/* Verify the clist invariant. Will panic if passed an invalid clist. + Intended for debugging of tty-drivers. */ +void +clist_invariant( + struct clist *clistp, /* clist to verify */ + char *descr /* Section of program causing panic */ +) { + struct cblock *cblockp; /* Presently examined cblock */ + struct cblock *cblockp2; /* Loop limit cblock */ + int real_cc; /* Real character count */ + int max_loop; /* Number of cblocks to check (max) */ + + if (descr == NULL) + descr = "undescribed"; + + if (clistp == NULL) + panic("clist invariant: NULL clist in %s", descr); + + /* Check for negative counts */ + if (clistp->c_cc < 0) + panic("clist invariant: negative character count(%d) in %s", + clistp->c_cc, descr); + if (clistp->c_cbcount < 0) + panic("clist invariant: negative block count (%d) in %s", + clistp->c_cbcount, descr); + if (clistp->c_cbmax < 0) + panic("clist invariant: negative max block count (%d) in %s", + clistp->c_cbmax, descr); + if (clistp->c_cbreserved < 0) + panic("clist invariant: negative reserved block count (%d) in %s", + clistp->c_cbreserved, descr); + + /* Check for generally invalid counts */ + + if (clistp->c_cc && roundup(clistp->c_cc, CBSIZE) / CBSIZE > clistp->c_cbcount) + panic("clist invariant: too few cblocks for c_cc (%d vs %d) in %s", + clistp->c_cbcount, clistp->c_cc, descr); + if (roundup(clistp->c_cc, CBSIZE) / CBSIZE + 2 < clistp->c_cbcount) + panic("clist invariant: too many cblocks for c_cc (%d vs %d) in %s", + clistp->c_cbcount, clistp->c_cc, descr); + if (clistp->c_cbcount > clistp->c_cbmax) + panic("clist invariant: more cblocks than cb_max (%d vs %d) in %s", + clistp->c_cbcount, clistp->c_cbmax, descr); + + if (clistp->c_cc == 0) { + if (clistp->c_cf && clistp->c_cl && + clistp->c_cf != clistp->c_cl) + panic("clist invariant: cf (%p) and cl (%p) differ for empty clist in %s", + clistp->c_cf, clistp->c_cl, descr); + return; + } + if (clistp->c_cf == NULL) + panic("clist invariant: cf is NULL with c_cc=%d (cl=%p) in %s", + clistp->c_cc, clistp->c_cl, descr); + if (clistp->c_cl == NULL) + panic("clist invariant: cl is NULL with c_cc=%d (cf=%p) in %s", + clistp->c_cc, clistp->c_cf, descr); + + /* Traverse clist to find actual character count and verify that the + last pointer exists */ + cblockp = (struct cblock *)((unsigned long)clistp->c_cf & ~CROUND); + real_cc = (char*)cblockp->c_info - clistp->c_cf; + if (real_cc > 0) + panic("clist invariant: cf (%p) points outside c_info block in %s", + clistp->c_cf, descr); + + /* Limit looping */ + max_loop = clistp->c_cbcount*2 + 2; + cblockp2 = cblockp; + + while (cblockp) { + if ((void*)clistp->c_cl > (void*)cblockp && + (char*)clistp->c_cl <= (char*)cblockp + CBLOCK) { + + /* We've found the last block in the list - handle character + count and other checks */ + if (clistp->c_cl < (char*)cblockp->c_info) + panic("clist invariant: cl (%p) points outside c_info block in %s", + clistp->c_cl); + real_cc += clistp->c_cl - (char*)cblockp->c_info; + if (real_cc != clistp->c_cc) + panic("clist invariant: real cc (%d) does not match c_cc (%d) in %s", + real_cc, clistp->c_cc, descr); + if (cblockp->c_next) + panic("clist invariant: non-NULL c_next (%p) on last cblock in %s", + cblockp->c_next, descr); + /* Invariant OK */ + return; + } + + /* Increase character count */ + real_cc += CBSIZE; + if (max_loop-- <= 0) { + panic("clist invariant: too long "); + } + cblockp = cblockp->c_next; + if (cblockp == cblockp2) + panic("clist invariant: loop in clist (%p) in %s", + clistp, descr); + if ((max_loop & 1) == 0) { + cblockp2 = cblockp2->c_next; + } + if (cblockp == cblockp2) + panic("clist invariant: loop in clist (%p) in %s", + clistp, descr); + } + panic("clist invariant: terminated before finding c_cl"); +} +#endif + /* * Copy 'amount' of chars, beginning at head of clist 'clistp' to * destination linear buffer 'dest'. Return number of characters @@ -277,8 +396,15 @@ int numc; int s; +#ifdef _ASSERTS + if (dest == NULL) + panic("destination is NULL in q_to_b"); +#endif s = spltty(); +#ifdef _INVARIANTS + clist_invariant(clistp, "q_to_b"); +#endif while (clistp && amount && (clistp->c_cc > 0)) { cblockp = (struct cblock *)((long)clistp->c_cf & ~CROUND); cblockn = cblockp + 1; /* pointer arithmetic! */ @@ -435,6 +561,10 @@ int startbit, endbit, num_between, numc; int s; +#ifdef _ASSERTS + if (src == NULL) + panic("clist b_to_q on NULL block"); +#endif /* * Avoid allocating an initial cblock and then not using it. * c_cc == 0 must imply c_cbount == 0. @@ -444,6 +574,9 @@ s = spltty(); +#ifdef _INVARIANTS + clist_invariant(clistp, "b_to_q"); +#endif /* * If there are no cblocks assigned to this clist yet, * then get one. > Do you think that DIAGNOSTICS can be separated into these 2 categories > without upsetting too many people? I haven't got a clue. I've been planning to try it, though. Do the above scheme look good to you? > What does DEBUG do? Can all sanity checks be moved to DEBUG? DEBUG does an insane pletoria of different things, all depending on what the driver-author (or whatever) wanted it to do. It usually turn on insane amounts of debugging information. > This would give us more clearly defined debugging flags: > > DIAGNOSTICS - Debug logging > DEBUG - Sanity checks > DDS - GDB callable debug functions. I like the distinctions, but not the names :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 00:24:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28976 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:28:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28895; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:27:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id HAA01349; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:27:14 GMT Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:27:14 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Eivind Eklund cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options) In-Reply-To: <19980209075127.63680@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 03:23:45PM +0900, Michael Hancock wrote: > > Eivind, > > > > I'd like to see "sanity checks" (assertions) and diagnostic logging > > separated. DIAGNOSTICS turns on both, but I'd like to be able to run an > > assertion checking kernel without all the logging. > > Absolutely agreed. I was thinking of > > _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions > _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive) > INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions. So we have 3 levels of "sanity checking" with increasing levels of cost. I like it, it's a good fit to how people want to use assertions in practice. > DIAGNOSTIC - Messages to help tracing errors; non-overwhelming amount. > DDB - Debug functions in GDB These leaves us with 3 categories of debugging flags; sanity checks, logging/tracing, and GDB environment specific. This shouldn't be too difficult to adopt. If the scheme is acceptable to others, I will contribute some time moving sanity checks out of DIAGNOSTICS. Regards, Mike Hancock -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 00:26:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10694 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:16:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10647; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:16:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA07587; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:16:45 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA06344; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:16:44 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980209091644.21614@follo.net> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:16:44 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Michael Hancock Cc: Eivind Eklund , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options) References: <19980209075127.63680@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Michael Hancock on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 04:27:14PM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 04:27:14PM +0900, Michael Hancock wrote: > On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 03:23:45PM +0900, Michael Hancock wrote: > > > Eivind, > > > > > > I'd like to see "sanity checks" (assertions) and diagnostic logging > > > separated. DIAGNOSTICS turns on both, but I'd like to be able to run an > > > assertion checking kernel without all the logging. > > > > Absolutely agreed. I was thinking of > > > > _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions > > _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive) > > INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions. > > So we have 3 levels of "sanity checking" with increasing levels of cost. > I like it, it's a good fit to how people want to use assertions in > practice. Just to make this perfectly clear (I'm not certain if you got my meaning or not): Enabling INVARIANT_CODE will not add _any_ checks to the kernel. Instead, it will add the code that is necessary to enable any checks at will. If INVARIANT_CODE is defined for the entire kernel, then _ASSERTS or _INVARIANTS can be defined for any single file without any compilation trouble, even if _ASSERTS/_INVARIANTS isn't enabled for any other file. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 00:40:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29219 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:28:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29195 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:28:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id AAA11458; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:28:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA23834; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:27:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:27:11 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: Archie Cobbs cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: <199802090716.XAA06954@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Archie Cobbs wrote: > After looking at the code, you're exactly right.. and this is a bug. > > The way it works now is that the port range tests are simply not > applied to packets that have non-zero offsets. This means a rule > with a port range can possibly match fragments of packets it's not > intended for -- independently of whether it's an accept rule, deny > rule, divert rule, or whatever. In other words, port range rules > match non-zero offset fragments too liberally. Ok, yes, that would be a bug then. I had assumed that it was designed the way I mentioned. > If it's an accept rule, this is OK -- because if the packet is > really supposed to be rejected, then the first fragement always > will be, so the entire packet is lost, even if you accidentally > pass other fragments of it. Matching too liberally here is OK. > > However, if it's a deny rule, then you may be unexpectedly blocking > some framgents of packets (and therefore the entire packet), even > if these packets' ports don't fall in the range specified by > the deny rule. Oops. What you want to do here instead is match too > conservatively and NOT match questionable fragments. Possibly. > > In the case of divert, count, skipto, etc. rules... what's the > right answer?? There isn't one unless the kernel keeps track of > all the fragments flying by, and matches them up with their > corresponding initial fragments, and whether that initial fragment > matched or not.. i.e., keeping a lot of extra information around. Even if it did that, it can't do it right. > > Recommendation: > > - At the least, a note should be added to the man page for this. > > - Going further: for accept and deny rules we can special case > the rule and do (very close to) the right thing as discussed above. Yes. This should be done in the short term to make it consistent; either fragments are denied if they could match a non-accept rule just to be safe or they are only denied if they are known to match a non-accept rule just to be sure we don't block things we shouldn't. I have reservations about passing fragments, but that is the normal way most filters do it in my experience so it is probably ok for a default. > > - Going still further: for divert rules, if the packet matches we > have to assemble all the fragments anyway, so we're keeping > most of the state we need to keep already. Once we get the whole > packet, we determine whether or not to divert it or forward it. > > - Going all the way: extend above divert approach to all rules that > match port ranges: for any fragments of packets that *might* match > a port range rule, reassemble the entire packet before applying > the rule. > > Come to think of it, the latter approach would not be that hard > since the kernel is doing this already for locally routed packets, > that is, reassembling packet fragments in a fragment queue. Moreover, > "most" packets don't get fragmentized. It would spread more ugliness > into ip_input.c, but at least the behavoir of the ipfw code would > then be semantically correct... Reassembly sucks. If you have different parts of the fragment following different paths, you lose bigtime. It probably violates any number of TCP specs. I would have to think about it to decide if I hate it enough to say it shouldn't be implemented at all or if there should just be a knob to disable it. I think some of the Linux firewall code does reassembly, and there have been numerous problems with it because of this. OTOH, some people also like it because of this. How about just waiting for IPv6 and not worrying about any of this? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 00:42:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26580 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26555 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:16:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA24104; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:16:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma024102; Sun Feb 8 23:16:10 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA06954; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:16:10 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802090716.XAA06954@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: from Marc Slemko at "Feb 8, 98 11:15:57 pm" To: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:16:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Marc Slemko writes: > On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Archie Cobbs wrote: > > > Marc Slemko writes: > > > If you don't explicitly tell ipfw to pass frags, it will not. That will > > > break some things, but is the safest way. > > > > This is not correct.. ipfw will always block fragments whose offset > > is one (only seen in attempts to subvert firewalls) but not ordinary > > fragments... that would be a serious problem. > > Ok, let me clarify that statement. > > First, ipfw always blocks certain types of fragments that are used only to > bypass firewalls. > > Second, it will block any fragment that _could_ match any deny rule even > if it has incomplete information so it doesn't know that it _does_ match > the rule. Since the tcp header is normally only in the first fragment, if > you block access to a specific port then ipfw can't know if subsequent > fragments are to that port or not so it blocks them. You need to add an > explicit rule to allow it to pass such fragments if the risk is acceptable > to you. After looking at the code, you're exactly right.. and this is a bug. The way it works now is that the port range tests are simply not applied to packets that have non-zero offsets. This means a rule with a port range can possibly match fragments of packets it's not intended for -- independently of whether it's an accept rule, deny rule, divert rule, or whatever. In other words, port range rules match non-zero offset fragments too liberally. If it's an accept rule, this is OK -- because if the packet is really supposed to be rejected, then the first fragement always will be, so the entire packet is lost, even if you accidentally pass other fragments of it. Matching too liberally here is OK. However, if it's a deny rule, then you may be unexpectedly blocking some framgents of packets (and therefore the entire packet), even if these packets' ports don't fall in the range specified by the deny rule. Oops. What you want to do here instead is match too conservatively and NOT match questionable fragments. In the case of divert, count, skipto, etc. rules... what's the right answer?? There isn't one unless the kernel keeps track of all the fragments flying by, and matches them up with their corresponding initial fragments, and whether that initial fragment matched or not.. i.e., keeping a lot of extra information around. Recommendation: - At the least, a note should be added to the man page for this. - Going further: for accept and deny rules we can special case the rule and do (very close to) the right thing as discussed above. - Going still further: for divert rules, if the packet matches we have to assemble all the fragments anyway, so we're keeping most of the state we need to keep already. Once we get the whole packet, we determine whether or not to divert it or forward it. - Going all the way: extend above divert approach to all rules that match port ranges: for any fragments of packets that *might* match a port range rule, reassemble the entire packet before applying the rule. Come to think of it, the latter approach would not be that hard since the kernel is doing this already for locally routed packets, that is, reassembling packet fragments in a fragment queue. Moreover, "most" packets don't get fragmentized. It would spread more ugliness into ip_input.c, but at least the behavoir of the ipfw code would then be semantically correct... -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 00:44:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14681 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:33:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com (arl-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14663 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:33:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 76350.1227@compuserve.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) id DAA14564; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:29:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:28:15 -0500 From: Bruce Vandiver <76350.1227@compuserve.com> Subject: 80c30 driver... To: "INTERNET:kfurge@worldnet.att.net" Cc: Jack Kelly , tech_help_drivers Message-ID: <199802090329_MC2-3284-816D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="92c10452-a120-11d1-afcd-00805fbe60fa" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a MIME-encapsulated message --92c10452-a120-11d1-afcd-00805fbe60fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I am including below the rocker switch info for the new style Future Domain TMC-1680 SCSI cards. The old style cards are illustrated on the Adaptec web site. The new cards use the 18c30 chip, which is compatible with the 18c50/18cXX family of chips used in all the Future Domain TMC-16XX SCSI cards. I have also included the same info as an attachment. Hope this helps. Bruce Vandiver 76350.1227@compuserve.com SWITCH SETTINGS FOR FUTURE DOMAIN TMC-1680 SCSI CARD WITH 18C30 CHIP AND ROCKER SWITCHES TO SET HARDWARE (NOTE - FLOPPY NOT AVAILABLE ON ALL CARDS) THIS TABLE USES ANSI GRAPHICS AND EXTENDED CHARACTER SET = ** INDICATES DEFAULT SELECTION =C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=BB =BA =BA =BA =BAIRQ-0=BAIRQ-1=BAIRQ-2=BAIO-0 =BAIO-1 =BA = =BA =BAFLOPPY=BAMEM0=BAMEM1=BAISEL0=BAISEL1=BAISEL2=BAIOSEL0=BAIOSEL1=BA FUNC= TION =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 = =BA OFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAFLOP = DISABLE =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA ON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAFLOP = ENABLE **=BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D= C800 =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D= CA00 **=BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D= CE00 =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D= DE00 =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 3 =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 5 =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 10 =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 11 **=BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ D= ISABLED =BA = =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 14 =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 15 =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ D= ISABLED =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAIO=3D= 140 **=BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAIO=3D= 150 =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAIO=3D= 160 =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAIO=3D= 170 =BA =C8=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=BC End of Table.= --92c10452-a120-11d1-afcd-00805fbe60fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="switches.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="switches.txt" =0D SWITCH SETTINGS FOR FUTURE DOMAIN TMC-1680 SCSI CARD=0D WITH 18C30 CHIP AND ROCKER SWITCHES TO SET HARDWARE=0D (NOTE - FLOPPY NOT AVAILABLE ON ALL CARDS)=0D THIS TABLE USES ANSI GRAPHICS AND EXTENDED CHARACTER SET =0D =0D ** INDICATES DEFAULT SELECTION=0D =C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=BB=0D =BA =BA =BA =BAIRQ-0=BAIRQ-1=BAIRQ-2=BAIO-0 =BAIO-1 =BA = =BA=0D =BAFLOPPY=BAMEM0=BAMEM1=BAISEL0=BAISEL1=BAISEL2=BAIOSEL0=BAIOSEL1=BA FUNC= TION =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =0D =BA OFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAFLOP = DISABLE =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA ON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAFLOP = ENABLE **=BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D= C800 =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D= CA00 **=BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D= CE00 =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D= DE00 =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 3 =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 5 =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 10 =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 11 **=BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ D= ISABLED =BA =0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 14 =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D= 15 =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ D= ISABLED =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAIO=3D= 140 **=BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAIO=3D= 150 =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAIO=3D= 160 =BA=0D =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAIO=3D= 170 =BA=0D =C8=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=BC=0D =0D =0D --92c10452-a120-11d1-afcd-00805fbe60fa-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 01:24:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25500 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:24:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25477; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:24:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id JAA02186; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:23:46 GMT Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:23:46 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock Reply-To: Michael Hancock To: Eivind Eklund cc: Eivind Eklund , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options) In-Reply-To: <19980209091644.21614@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions > > > _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive) > > > INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions. > > > > So we have 3 levels of "sanity checking" with increasing levels of cost. > > I like it, it's a good fit to how people want to use assertions in > > practice. > > Just to make this perfectly clear (I'm not certain if you got my > meaning or not): > > Enabling INVARIANT_CODE will not add _any_ checks to the kernel. > Instead, it will add the code that is necessary to enable any checks > at will. If INVARIANT_CODE is defined for the entire kernel, then > _ASSERTS or _INVARIANTS can be defined for any single file without any > compilation trouble, even if _ASSERTS/_INVARIANTS isn't enabled for > any other file. Ok. My initial brief glance at the code I saw it as a way to have light-weight invariants that didn't need a function to check the invariant. After thinking about it, although I could do this in the framework you describe there would probably be little value in doing so. So getting back to your definition, if we had a small subsystem/module that could be implemented in a single file we could have a static check_invariant() for the module within #ifdef _INVARIANTS. For larger subsystems/modules where the check_invariant() is invoked from many files we would use INVARIANT_CODE around the mysubsystem_check_invariant(). I guess this should be documented under man style. Mike > Eivind. > -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 01:57:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29432 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA29415; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:57:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id JAA02398; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:56:39 GMT Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:56:38 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: "Alton, Matthew" cc: fs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem hacking In-Reply-To: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF9C33287@STLABCEXG011> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Alton, Matthew wrote: > I have decided to code up an IBM-style journaling filesystem > (jfs) with maximum portability for free unices. While I'm at it Cool. Portability might be a challenge though, the vnode interface varies quite a bit between the various Unices. > I had might as well have the clean-bits map to a PP/extent > disk arrangement which will act as a useful abstraction for a > Logical Volume Manager / Veritas -esque disk management > system which I also find interesting enough to code up. > > This is not an attempt to morph FreeBSD into AIX by any > means. It is just an interesting project which I think may be > of use to hackers. > > This month (02/98) I will explore the GNU HURD OS to see if > their goal of creating an OS which would allow me to imple- > ment a filesystem in user space has been realized. If it has > not, I will use my normal FreeBSD 2.2.2 i386/40 and NetBSD > 1.3 Sun 3/50 & 3/80 development boxes. See the link below for a description of stacking, I was one of the people that was talking about doing ktou/utok layers in FBSD but I haven't gotten around to it yet. http://www.isi.edu/~johnh/SOFTWARE/UCLA_STACKING/ Doing a terminal layer in userland would be a pretty good challenge. While GNU HURD is interesting, for a production environment you should probably stick with doing most of it in the kernel. You might also want to look at the CryptoFS, I think it's in the ports tree, for an example of an FS that piggybacks on NFS. > Please let me know if I am duplicating effort and provide me > with relevant pointers. > P.S. it's good to see a FreeBSDer from AB. Any chance of converting Scott Smallie? ;-) -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 03:52:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14805 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:52:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14799 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:52:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA04761; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:51:51 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980209091644.21614@follo.net> References: ; from Michael Hancock on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 04:27:14PM +0900 <19980209075127.63680@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:49:52 -0600 To: Eivind Eklund From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options) Cc: Michael Hancock , FreeBSD Hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 2:16 AM -0600 2/9/98, Eivind Eklund wrote: >> > _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions >> > _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive) >> > INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions. >> >> So we have 3 levels of "sanity checking" with increasing levels of cost. >> I like it, it's a good fit to how people want to use assertions in >> practice. > >Just to make this perfectly clear (I'm not certain if you got my >meaning or not): > >Enabling INVARIANT_CODE will not add _any_ checks to the kernel. INVARIANT_SUPPORT >Instead, it will add the code that is necessary to enable any checks >at will. If INVARIANT_CODE is defined for the entire kernel, then >_ASSERTS or _INVARIANTS can be defined for any single file without any >compilation trouble, even if _ASSERTS/_INVARIANTS isn't enabled for >any other file. Let me suggest something that I found to work well in developing drivers on MacOS. Rather than fill the code with #ifdef _ASSERTS if ((unsigned long)cblockp & (CBLOCK-1)) panic("Unaligned cblock in cblock_free"); #endif how about ASSERT(((unsigned long)cblockp & (CBLOCK-1)), "Unaligned cblock in cblock_free"); Then you can hide the _ASSERTS stuff in a header which defines the ASSERT macro and get rid of the clutter in the code. #ifdef _ASSERTS #define ASSERT(X,Y) if (X) panic(Y) #else #define ASSERT(X,Y) #endif Richard Wackerbarth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 04:06:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA18251 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:06:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from manuel.nta.no (manuel.nta.no [128.39.1.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA18241 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:06:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Igor.Alekseev@kjeller.fou.telenor.no) From: Igor.Alekseev@kjeller.fou.telenor.no X400-Received: by mta tf in /PRMD=telenor/ADMD=TELEMAX/C=no/; Relayed; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:05:47 +0100 Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:05:47 +0100 X400-Originator: Igor.Alekseev@kjeller.fou.telenor.no X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=telenor/ADMD=TELEMAX/C=no/;1658 98/02/09 13:05] Content-Identifier: 1658 98/02/09 Alternate-Recipient: Allowed Message-ID: <"1658 98/02/09 13:05*/G=Igor/S=Alekseev/OU=kjeller/O=fou/PRMD=telenor/ADMD=TELEMAX/C=no/"@MHS> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: TCP slow start problem Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, FreeBSD 2.2.5 seems not to be following Slow start procedure (when connection is set up)! Could someone, please shed some light on this problem? The /sys/netinet/tcp_subr.c file contains a function tcp_newtcpcb() which initialises the control block structure. This function initialises congerstion window (CWND) tp->snd_cwnd to the maximum possible window size (evwn with window scale option). tcp_subr.c line 280: tp->snd_cwnd = TCP_MAXWIN << TCP_MAX_WINSHIFT; Should not the slow start congestion window tp->snd_cwnd be initialised to 1 MSS and be increased by one MSS per each ACK received, (until it reaches ssthresh). Please, tell me if I got the spec wrong, but this is what is specified by RFC 2001 (TCP Slow Start, Congestion Avoidance, Fast Retransmit, and Fast Recovery Algorithms). Tcpdump output from netperf runs with my FreeBSD 2.2.5 shows that the amount of segments initially injected into the network is limited only by the receiver's advertised window, regardless of whether the other host is on the same network segment or on a different subnetwork. Is this a bug or a feature? If a trnasmission timeout occures, TCP goes through slow start as it should. Thanks, Igor V. Alekseev Visiting researcher, Telenor, Norway To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 04:07:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA18466 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:07:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA18456 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:07:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10670; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:07:08 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id NAA08555; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:07:07 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980209130707.03437@follo.net> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:07:07 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Eivind Eklund , Michael Hancock , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options) References: ; <19980209075127.63680@follo.net> <19980209091644.21614@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Richard Wackerbarth on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 05:49:52AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 05:49:52AM -0600, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > At 2:16 AM -0600 2/9/98, Eivind Eklund wrote: > >> > _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions > >> > _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive) > >> > INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions. > >> > >> So we have 3 levels of "sanity checking" with increasing levels of cost. > >> I like it, it's a good fit to how people want to use assertions in > >> practice. > > > >Just to make this perfectly clear (I'm not certain if you got my > >meaning or not): > > > >Enabling INVARIANT_CODE will not add _any_ checks to the kernel. > > INVARIANT_SUPPORT Agreed. > >Instead, it will add the code that is necessary to enable any checks > >at will. If INVARIANT_CODE is defined for the entire kernel, then > >_ASSERTS or _INVARIANTS can be defined for any single file without any > >compilation trouble, even if _ASSERTS/_INVARIANTS isn't enabled for > >any other file. > > Let me suggest something that I found to work well in developing drivers > on MacOS. Rather than fill the code with > > #ifdef _ASSERTS > if ((unsigned long)cblockp & (CBLOCK-1)) > panic("Unaligned cblock in cblock_free"); > #endif > > how about > > ASSERT(((unsigned long)cblockp & (CBLOCK-1)), "Unaligned cblock in > cblock_free"); > > Then you can hide the _ASSERTS stuff in a header which defines the > ASSERT macro and get rid of the clutter in the code. Well, I thought that was a bit too extreme for FreeBSD ;-) I personally use a fairly heavy assertion system based on that, along with extra trace and code-control support. My system is usually a bit overkill except for large projects; for FreeBSD, it might be perfect. I'll try to send a description to the mailing-list, and then I'll write up a new version if people seem interested. I need to get a freeware version of it some day, anyway; re-writing it each time I switch employers is getting a bit tedious... > #ifdef _ASSERTS > #define ASSERT(X,Y) if (X) panic(Y) > #else > #define ASSERT(X,Y) > #endif #ifdef _ASSERTS # define ASSERT(X,Y) do {if (!(X)) panic Y;}while(0) #else # define ASSERT(X,Y) #endif Notice the support for extra argument, the correct direction for the assert (an assertion should always be true), and the bracketing to force correct use of ";", making this a single C-statement after pre-processing with _ASSERTS both defined and undefined. Your version will bind an else wrong if used as the front-end of an if. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 04:28:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21684 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:28:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21678 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:28:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA05234; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:28:31 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980209130707.03437@follo.net> References: ; from Richard Wackerbarth on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 05:49:52AM -0600 ; <19980209075127.63680@follo.net> <19980209091644.21614@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:28:20 -0600 To: Eivind Eklund From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options) Cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 05:49:52AM -0600, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: >I'll try to send a description to the mailing-list, and then I'll >write up a new version if people seem interested. I need to get a >freeware version of it some day, anyway; re-writing it each time I >switch employers is getting a bit tedious... I've been there, too. >#ifdef _ASSERTS ># define ASSERT(X,Y) do {if (!(X)) panic Y;}while(0) >#else ># define ASSERT(X,Y) >#endif > >Notice the support for extra argument, the correct direction for the >assert (an assertion should always be true), and the bracketing to >force correct use of ";", making this a single C-statement after >pre-processing with _ASSERTS both defined and undefined. Yours is definitely a better description. The lines I wrote here were off the top of my head. They should be taken more for "flavour". My real macros are much more complicated because I also have provisions for logging, etc. Assert is just one case. In fact, I rarely look at the macros. They are neatly hidden away and "just work". Richard Wackerbarth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 04:29:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21844 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:29:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21762 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:29:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199802091229.EAA21762@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA174807291; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:28:11 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments To: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:28:11 +1100 (EDT) Cc: archie@whistle.com, jonny@coppe.UFRJ.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Marc Slemko" at Feb 9, 98 00:27:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Marc Slemko, sie said: > > > In the case of divert, count, skipto, etc. rules... what's the > > right answer?? There isn't one unless the kernel keeps track of > > all the fragments flying by, and matches them up with their > > corresponding initial fragments, and whether that initial fragment > > matched or not.. i.e., keeping a lot of extra information around. > > Even if it did that, it can't do it right. Not necessarily. It can do it right, but for it to happen right, the first fragment seen should be at offset 0. [...] > I have reservations about passing fragments, but that is the normal way > most filters do it in my experience so it is probably ok for a default. IP Filter doesn't do it that way, although you have to explicitly match on fragments in a rule to apply a result because it is a fragment. If you don't specify in your rule that a packet should (not) be a fragment then it shouldn't matter unless you are trying to compare your rule to data which can't be reasonably assumed to be in the fragment. [...] > > Come to think of it, the latter approach would not be that hard > > since the kernel is doing this already for locally routed packets, > > that is, reassembling packet fragments in a fragment queue. Moreover, > > "most" packets don't get fragmentized. It would spread more ugliness > > into ip_input.c, but at least the behavoir of the ipfw code would > > then be semantically correct... > > Reassembly sucks. If you have different parts of the fragment following > different paths, you lose bigtime. It probably violates any number of TCP > specs. I would have to think about it to decide if I hate it enough to > say it shouldn't be implemented at all or if there should just be a knob > to disable it. > > I think some of the Linux firewall code does reassembly, and there have > been numerous problems with it because of this. OTOH, some people also > like it because of this. Right. There are reasons that reassembly is done at "endpoints" rather than wherever it might be convienient. Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 05:11:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27920 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:11:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iq.org (proff@polysynaptic.iq.org [203.4.184.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA27914 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:11:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from proff@iq.org) Received: (qmail 588 invoked by uid 110); 9 Feb 1998 12:28:44 -0000 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Free Software for Fast IP-Address Lookup (fwd) From: Julian Assange Date: 09 Feb 1998 23:28:44 +1100 Message-ID: Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FREE SOFTWARE FOR FAST IP-ADDRESS LOOKUP Efficient, compact and easily searchable IP routing tables can be built by using an LC-trie, a trie structure with combined path and level compression. The depth of the LC-trie grows as O(log log N) with the number of entries N for a large class of distributions. A node in the trie can be coded in only four bytes and holds 128-bit addresses without modification. We are now making a software implementation publically available that can sustain approximately half a million lookups per second on a 133 MHz Pentium personal computer, and two million lookups per second on a more powerful SUN Sparc Ultra II workstation for random traffic. The number of lookups roughly doubles for real traffic owing to better caching. The size of the main search structure never exceeds 500 kB for the tables in the US core routers. Our results include the full lookup from a given 32-bit address to the resulting port number and next-hop address. The source code and an accompanying paper can be fetched from URL http://www.cs.hut.fi/~sni/papers/router/router.html No patents are pending or awarded for the algorithm. Stefan Nilsson Department of Computer Science Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Gunnar Karlsson Swedish Institute of Computer Science Sweden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 05:14:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA28429 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:14:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA28422 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:14:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wirth@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at) Received: from p0.hai.siemens.co.at (root@firix [10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at with SMTP id OAA18731 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:13:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from hai.siemens.co.at by p0.hai.siemens.co.at with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7 for ) id m0y1t1z-00075ZC; Mon, 9 Feb 98 14:13 MET Received: from zerberus (localhost) by hai.siemens.co.at (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05454; Mon, 9 Feb 98 14:15:08 +0100 Message-Id: <34DF015B.41C67EA6@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:15:08 +0100 From: Helmut Wirth Organization: Siemens AG. Österreich X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4c) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc References: <199802080804.AAA08941@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Sorry I forgot to mentioned that a little while ago someone posted > patches to gcc to add MMX instruction set so do a mail search > over at http://www.freebsd.org to find out who posted it. > > Cheers, > Amancio > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message Hello, I think you are reffering to my patches for gas and gdb. They are archived as a change request / bug report. Look into problem reports (under Search GNATS database), it has the number gnu/3157. I *know* the patches itself are still usable with freebsd-current. The old instructions included with them may be slightly wrong because of changed paths. Alternatively you could use binutils-2.8.1 (from gnu). It includes gas with MMX instructions. But then you cannot debug your programs. -- Helmut F. Wirth --------------- E-mail: hfwirth@eunet.at E-mail (at work): wirth@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at Tel. : +43-1-1707-37610 (at work) FAX : +43-1-1707-57602 (at work) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 05:58:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04469 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:58:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labrador.cslab.vt.edu (labrador.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA04462 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:58:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kmitch@labrador.cslab.vt.edu) Received: (from kmitch@localhost) by labrador.cslab.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA14080 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:58:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kmitch) From: Keith Mitchell Message-Id: <199802091358.IAA14080@labrador.cslab.vt.edu> Subject: Zip/CD and Stable/Current To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:58:04 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: kmitch@cslab.vt.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just received a brand new gateway PC that I need to install FreeBSD on. This PC has an SM9432TX card in it, so I was trying to install stable and current from 2/8/98 and both lock up the machine right before sysinstall comes up (it even displays the message that it is starting sysinstall). The PC itself is a Gateway model 3110 which is a Pentium II 233 machine with both a zip and a CDrom drive on the secondary IDE channel. If I disable the secondary IDE channel, then it will boot. 2.2.5 boots fine, but tries to put the zip drive on the CD driver and the end result is both the zip and the cdrom drive are inaccessible. It appears that something has changed in the IDE stuff that could be responsible for this lockup. Has anyone else seen this?? Thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 06:34:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA09158 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:34:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ewok.pi.musin.de ([194.246.250.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA09137 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:34:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sec@yoda.pi.musin.de) Received: from yoda.pi.musin.de (yoda.pi.musin.de [194.246.250.12]) by ewok.pi.musin.de (8.8.5/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08179 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:34:28 +0100 (CET) Received: (from sec@localhost) by yoda.pi.musin.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA21001; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:34:18 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980209153416.37273@yoda.pi.musin.de> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:34:16 +0100 From: Stefan `Sec` Zehl To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: help: Partition/Label editor from sysinstall? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i I-love-doing-this: really X-URL: http://sec.42.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been trying to create a setup-disk for our workstations here. This basically involves partitioning/labeling the Hard-disk, and getting the whole tree via "rsh otherhost tar cf - /|tar xvf -" from an already running system. Since these boxes have different sized disks, i wanted to partition/label them myself using that nice gui from sysinstall. Has anyone been successfull of ripping this part out? The whole sysinstall is unfortunately too big to fit on my setup-disk (created with the picobsd0.2 scripts). Or does anyone have an idea how i can accomplish this in a better/easier way? CU, Sec -- Komme wieder To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 06:52:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA12646 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:52:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bootp.sls.usu.edu (bootp.sls.usu.edu [129.123.15.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA12634 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:52:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu) Received: (from kurto@localhost) by bootp.sls.usu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id HAA26709; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:52:22 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:52:22 -0700 (MST) From: Kurt Olsen Message-Id: <199802091452.HAA26709@bootp.sls.usu.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sec@yoda.pi.musin.de Subject: Re: help: Partition/Label editor from sysinstall? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If you are only using 1.44 MB formatted disks, you could always format them to 1720 KB and get another 280-ish KB. Use fdformat -f 1720 /dev/fd0.1720 Then disklabel, newfs, etc. as normal. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 07:34:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21779 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:34:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bh.com.pl ([195.136.36.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA21752 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:34:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from PMATUSZYK@bh.com.pl) Received: from route#u#internet-Message_Server by bh.com.pl with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:39:24 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:36:47 +0100 From: Pawel Matuszyk To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: List master -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I do mind being subscribing questions mailing list. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE PMatuszyk@bh.com.pl listerver is dead ?!!! Pawel G. Matuszyk Biuro Uslug Powierniczych Bank Handlowy w Warszawie S.A. ul. Chalubinskiego 8 00-950 Warszawa tel. (+48 22) 690 36 38 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 08:04:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25895 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:04:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25887 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:04:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22008; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:03:58 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199802091603.OAA22008@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: <199802091228.KAA17319@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> from Darren Reed at "Feb 9, 98 11:28:11 pm" To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:03:58 -0200 (EDT) Cc: marcs@znep.com, archie@whistle.com, jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG // > > Come to think of it, the latter approach would not be that hard // > > since the kernel is doing this already for locally routed packets, // > > that is, reassembling packet fragments in a fragment queue. Moreover, // > > "most" packets don't get fragmentized. It would spread more ugliness // > > into ip_input.c, but at least the behavoir of the ipfw code would // > > then be semantically correct... // > // > Reassembly sucks. If you have different parts of the fragment following // > different paths, you lose bigtime. It probably violates any number of TCP // > specs. I would have to think about it to decide if I hate it enough to // > say it shouldn't be implemented at all or if there should just be a knob // > to disable it. // > // > I think some of the Linux firewall code does reassembly, and there have // > been numerous problems with it because of this. OTOH, some people also // > like it because of this. // // Right. There are reasons that reassembly is done at "endpoints" rather // than wherever it might be convienient. I like the idea of packet reassembly at firewalling points. If it's easy, I'd like to see a sysctl to force reassembly at ip_input.c. I can't remember anything in the IP protocol that would disallow reassembly in the routers, other than performance. Could you please give examples ? Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 08:14:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27161 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:14:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po1.bbn.com (PO1.BBN.COM [192.1.50.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27153 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:14:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@bbn.com) Received: from bbn.com (DROCKWELL.BBN.COM [128.89.31.139]) by po1.bbn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA16866; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:12:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802091612.LAA16866@po1.bbn.com> To: Michael Schuster cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Shared memory and signals In-reply-to: Message from Michael Schuster <34DAB34B.DD7FFC63@utimaco.co.at> . X-face: &R'hN{mZu#r@8b_JU\bn"!fYpP{?5k4p/(|]?.2'6;>Dc9}~t*vY=/#-:"63ya.%)%o`Kv$ u&'Ff5k&n[}QC;j7YYsR5Hl]G"E:*9Zmw;dx[sw&9Tmx_PB/7B`RdFW;#@49hJU&kW+J"<[`9^?.dQ 3]L$zK,4'=tThX$wC!M\`e*@1y Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:13:57 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 6 Feb, Michael Schuster wrote: > Dennis Rockwell wrote > > Also, this looks like a race condition just waiting to be lost. > > Could you elaborate? Sure. The last two attachments do the sense ioctl at roughly the same time, and both see that shm_nattach == 2, so neither does the RMID. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 08:19:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28140 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:19:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28053 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:18:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17750; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:18:53 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA11111; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:18:52 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980209171852.02605@follo.net> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:18:52 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: dmaddox@scsn.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ANSI X3.241-1994 References: <19980204193248.51214@scsn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19980204193248.51214@scsn.net>; from Donald J. Maddox on Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 07:32:48PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 07:32:48PM -0500, Donald J. Maddox wrote: > Anybody have a pointer to ANSI X3.241-1994? I know I can get it from > Global Engineering, but that's $ and I'd like to avoid that :-) > I called them about some SCSI specs once, and they wanted lots o' > cash. Shortly thereafter, I found the info I needed freely available > on the net... Maybe the same is true in this case as well? That's the ANSI C standard, right? It's not freely available at this point. The closest you can get is the draft of the next standard. The cheapest buy you will get for the original ANSI standard is Herbert Schildts 'The annotated C standard', which cost about $30 less than the non-annotated standard. The rumours say that the publisher took the original price and added the value of the annotations to end up at that price. (In other words, you're better off using white-out on the annotations than reading them.) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 08:31:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00420 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:31:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00407 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:31:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@hsc.fr) Received: from mars.hsc.fr (pb@mars.hsc.fr [192.70.106.44]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5/itesec-1.10-nospam) with ESMTP id RAA21142; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:29:50 +0100 (MET) Received: (from pb@localhost) by mars.hsc.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5/pb-19970301) id RAA24310; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:29:49 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980209172948.VX49057@mars.hsc.fr> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:29:48 +0100 From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) To: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed), marcs@znep.com, archie@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments References: <199802091228.KAA17319@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> <199802091603.OAA22008@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199802091603.OAA22008@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>; from Joao Carlos Mendes Luis on Feb 9, 1998 14:03:58 -0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Joao Carlos Mendes Luis: > I can't remember anything in the IP protocol that would disallow reassembly > in the routers, other than performance. Could you please give examples ? Multiple paths, for one. A router is not _guaranteed_ to see all fragments, in general. -- Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 08:49:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02836 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:49:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02823 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:49:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id JAA27836; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:49:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA26289; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:48:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:48:11 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: <199802091603.OAA22008@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > I like the idea of packet reassembly at firewalling points. If it's easy, > I'd like to see a sysctl to force reassembly at ip_input.c. > > I can't remember anything in the IP protocol that would disallow reassembly > in the routers, other than performance. Could you please give examples ? It is simply a bad idea. First, you have multiple paths. Second, you need to worry about headaches with timeouts and not having bad interactions between timeouts at the receiver and timeouts at the destination. If you want a "thou shalt not" in the RFCs, cf. section 5.2.1.1 of rfc1812: (2) The router validates the IP header, as described in Section [5.2.2]. Note that IP reassembly is not done, except on IP fragments to be queued for local delivery in step (4). [...] since reassembly is performed on locally delivered packets but not on forwarded packets. One simple scheme is to associate a flag [...] 5.2.6 Fragmentation and Reassembly: RFC-791 Section 3.2 As was discussed in Section [4.2.2.7], a router MUST support IP fragmentation. A router MUST NOT reassemble any datagram before forwarding it. DISCUSSION A few people have suggested that there might be some topologies where reassembly of transit datagrams by routers might improve performance. The fact that fragments may take different paths to the destination precludes safe use of such a feature. Nothing in this section should be construed to control or limit fragmentation or reassembly performed as a link layer function by the router. Similarly, if an IP datagram is encapsulated in another IP datagram (e.g., it is tunnelled), that datagram is in turn fragmented, the fragments must be reassembled in order to forward the original datagram. This section does not preclude this. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 09:04:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06051 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:04:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06045 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:04:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27849; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:04:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802091704.JAA27849@implode.root.com> To: Igor.Alekseev@kjeller.fou.telenor.no cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP slow start problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:05:47 +0100." <"1658 98/02/09 13:05*/G=Igor/S=Alekseev/OU=kjeller/O=fou/PRMD=telenor/ADMD=TELEMAX/C=no/"@MHS> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 09:04:14 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >FreeBSD 2.2.5 seems not to be following Slow start procedure (when connection is >set up)! > >Could someone, please shed some light on this problem? > >The /sys/netinet/tcp_subr.c file contains a function tcp_newtcpcb() which initialises >the control block structure. This function initialises congerstion window (CWND) >tp->snd_cwnd to the maximum possible window size (evwn with window scale >option). > > >tcp_subr.c line 280: tp->snd_cwnd = TCP_MAXWIN << TCP_MAX_WINSHIFT; The congestion window is also set in tcp_mss() as soon as the mss is learned from the foreign machine, and for non-local networks, cwnd is set to one segment. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 09:04:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06100 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:04:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06034 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:03:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23513; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:03:09 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199802091703.PAA23513@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: <19980209172948.VX49057@mars.hsc.fr> from Pierre Beyssac at "Feb 9, 98 05:29:48 pm" To: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:03:09 -0200 (EDT) Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, marcs@znep.com, archie@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Pierre Beyssac) // According to Joao Carlos Mendes Luis: // > I can't remember anything in the IP protocol that would disallow reassembly // > in the routers, other than performance. Could you please give examples ? // // Multiple paths, for one. A router is not _guaranteed_ to see all // fragments, in general. Right, for general routers. But if the machine is my firewall, I expect ALL fragments to pass by it. That's why a sysctl would be handy. Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 09:52:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12253 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:52:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12178 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:51:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@hsc.fr) Received: from mars.hsc.fr (pb@mars.hsc.fr [192.70.106.44]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5/itesec-1.10-nospam) with ESMTP id SAA22349; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:51:16 +0100 (MET) Received: (from pb@localhost) by mars.hsc.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5/pb-19970301) id SAA24744; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:51:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980209185114.FA55685@mars.hsc.fr> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:51:14 +0100 From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) To: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, marcs@znep.com, archie@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments References: <19980209172948.VX49057@mars.hsc.fr> <199802091703.PAA23513@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199802091703.PAA23513@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>; from Joao Carlos Mendes Luis on Feb 9, 1998 15:03:09 -0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Joao Carlos Mendes Luis: > // Multiple paths, for one. A router is not _guaranteed_ to see all > // fragments, in general. > > Right, for general routers. But if the machine is my firewall, I expect > ALL fragments to pass by it. That's why a sysctl would be handy. Of course, I agree. But you were asking for "anything in the IP protocol that would disallow reassembly", that's why I gave a general reason. -- Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 09:54:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12550 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:54:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12448; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:53:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199802091753.JAA12448@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: List master -Reply In-Reply-To: from Pawel Matuszyk at "Feb 9, 98 04:36:47 pm" To: PMATUSZYK@bh.com.pl (Pawel Matuszyk) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:53:23 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Pawel Matuszyk wrote: > I do mind being subscribing questions mailing list. > > PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE PMatuszyk@bh.com.pl > > listerver is dead ?!!! hello, the listerver is not dead. you are subscribed to a number of mailing lists. you sent mail regarding your subscription to questions to the hackers mailing list......strange. this is a volunteer effort. each person is expected to subscribe and unsubscribe as they see fit...without help from anyone else. if you insist that i remove you from question, i will remove you from all the lists. is there is a reason that you cannot maintain your own subscriptions, please tell me. jmb freebsd-bugs:pmatuszyk@bh.com.pl freebsd-current:pmatuszyk@bh.com.pl freebsd-hackers:pmatuszyk@bh.com.pl freebsd-questions:pmatuszyk@bh.com.pl freebsd-security:pmatuszyk@bh.com.pl freebsd-stable:pmatuszyk@bh.com.pl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 10:12:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15599 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:12:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15577 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:12:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA24941 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:11:50 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Japan trip report.. Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 10:11:48 -0800 Message-ID: <24936.887047908@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As promised, I did a little trip report on my recent PR tour of Tokyo. In keeping with the modern trend towards using the web for everything, and especially since there were so many images involved, I did my report in HTML for a change. Please see: http://www.freebsd.org/~jkh/japan/report Thanks to all the FreeBSD developers and friends who were such gracious hosts during my stay there! You made this a most enjoyable experience indeed... Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 10:16:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16414 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:16:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [205.162.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16295 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:15:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jas@flyingfox.com) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA18235 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:17:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:17:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199802091817.KAA18235@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Slemko writes: > Reassembly sucks. If you have different parts of the fragment > following different paths, you lose bigtime. This is excessively general. In particular, in any firewall setting (and we were talking about ipfw), it can be considered a misfeature for the network to be designed such that data either transits or bypasses the firewall, unpredictably. Obviously IP routers should not in general perform packet reassembly; firewalls, NAT devices, etc., placed at administrative boundaries toward the perimeter of the network, are a different story. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 10:42:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21465 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:42:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from top.monad.net (root@top.monad.net [204.97.16.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21442 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:42:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vdk@chaosphere.com) Received: from logrus.chaosphere.com (logrus.top.monad.net [206.231.108.252]) by top.monad.net (8.8.8/What) with SMTP id NAA23726 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:42:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:43:51 -0500 (EST) From: Obi Wan Oblivion To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry to clutter what may be an off topic list. I am looking for information about OS programming, specifically FreeBSD. I have experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier, approach. My main goal is to learn more about the operating system at it's lowest levels, and to learn to appreciate fully the oft-spoken mantra "Never trust an operating system you don't have the source code for." I'd also like to get involved in the FreeBSD development effort once I actually know what I am doing. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks! -Jeff "In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point." -- Friedrich Nietzsche To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 10:53:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23628 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:53:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23608 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:53:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA25470; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:52:52 -0800 (PST) To: Obi Wan Oblivion cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:43:51 EST." Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 10:52:52 -0800 Message-ID: <25466.887050372@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to > learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code > from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier, > approach. Erm, no actually. The approach you've taken isn't the masochistic one at all, it's really the ONLY approach to take. You think people have time to *write* about this stuff and work on it too? ;-) It's enough work just keeping /usr/src up to date for most developers, and I'm afraid that reading the code IS the way to do what you want to do. It's also about as thorough an approach as they get so I'm not quite sure what you mean by your request for a "more thorough" one - whatever any book might say, even if you have one available, the source is always the definitive reference. Books are often wrong but the sources don't lie. :) As far as "easier" is concerned, well, who ever said that learning FreeBSD at this level was supposed to be easy? ;-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 11:10:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28322 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:10:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28140 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:09:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00736; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:07:09 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199802091907.UAA00736@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Shared memory and signals In-Reply-To: <199802091612.LAA16866@po1.bbn.com> from Dennis Rockwell at "Feb 9, 98 11:13:57 am" To: dennis@bbn.com (Dennis Rockwell) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:07:09 +0100 (MET) Cc: Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Dennis Rockwell who wrote: > On 6 Feb, Michael Schuster wrote: > > > Dennis Rockwell wrote > > > Also, this looks like a race condition just waiting to be lost. > > Could you elaborate? > Sure. The last two attachments do the sense ioctl at > roughly the same time, and both see that shm_nattach == 2, > so neither does the RMID. Yep, I've seen this too, but havn't got a fix yet... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 11:15:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00444 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:15:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from schubert.promo.de (schubert.Promo.DE [194.45.188.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00130 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:15:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stefan@promo.de) Received: from stefan.promo.de (stefan.Promo.DE [194.45.188.81]) by schubert.promo.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA18863; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:10:23 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 20:13:08 +0100 From: "Stefan Bethke" To: "Obi Wan Oblivion" cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD Message-ID: <585160.3096043988@stefan.promo.de> X-Mailer: Mulberry Demo (MacOS) [1.4.0a1, s/n Evaluation] X-Licensed-To: Unlicensed - for evaluation only MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --On Mon, 9. Feb 1998 10:52 Uhr -0800 "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >> experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to >> learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code >> from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier, >> approach. > > Erm, no actually. The approach you've taken isn't the masochistic one > at all, it's really the ONLY approach to take. You think people have > time to *write* about this stuff and work on it too? ;-) It's enough > work just keeping /usr/src up to date for most developers, and I'm > afraid that reading the code IS the way to do what you want to do. > > It's also about as thorough an approach as they get so I'm not quite > sure what you mean by your request for a "more thorough" one - > whatever any book might say, even if you have one available, the > source is always the definitive reference. Books are often wrong but > the sources don't lie. :) If you're interested in the networking kernel code, I can highly recommend TCP/IP Illustratated, Vol. 2, by Stevens and Wright, published by AW. Although FreeBSD has evolved from the roots described in this title, its still current in many aspects, and fun to read. Nonetheless, the source is the definitive reference, as Jordan said. Actually, I'd love to see such books for other parts of the system. [ Yes, I can reply to myself: "then go write it." ] Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Promo Datentechnik | Tel. +49-40-851744-18 + Systemberatung GmbH | Fax. +49-40-851744-44 Eduardstrasse 46-48 | e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE D-20257 Hamburg | http://www.Promo.DE/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 11:20:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02158 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:20:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02085 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:19:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA05117; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:19:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:19:46 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199802091919.LAA05117@kithrup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <25466.887050372.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@time.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:43:51 EST." Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <25466.887050372.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@time.cdrom.com> Jordan writes: >> experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to >> learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code >> from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier, >> approach. >Erm, no actually. The approach you've taken isn't the masochistic one >at all, it's really the ONLY approach to take. You think people have >time to *write* about this stuff and work on it too? ;-) It's enough >work just keeping /usr/src up to date for most developers, and I'm >afraid that reading the code IS the way to do what you want to do. Well, that's not *completely* true :). First, anyone interested in kernel hacking should probably read one or more of the following books: The Design and Implementation of the UNIX Operating System, by Maurice J. Bach The Design and Implementation of the 4.3BSD Operating System, by Marshall Kirk McKusick et al The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating Sytem, by Marshall Kirk McKusick et al A Commentary on the UNIX Operatin System, by John Lions (recently republished, although I don't know if the title is the same) For those who are in the San Francisco Bay Area, Kirk McKusick also periodically offers an excellent course that walks through the kernel sources, and explains what's going on at various bits. (You should have read at least one of the above books before taking the "advanced" course, although I don't know what the difference between teh "beginner" and "advanced" courses is.) Lastly (plug plug) there's an article in the current (March, 1998) issue of Dr Dobb's Journal that describes the process of adding a feature to the kernel, and I think does a fairly good job of explaining it as long as the reader has experience in programmin in C. And, for the curious... I read the Bach book, and then started playing around with the kernel code (specifically, I first added ACL support to the Xenix kernel, and then got job control working in SCO SysVr3.2). I've since read the rest of the books above, and taken Kirk's course (not necessarily in that order). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 11:48:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10423 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:48:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from inet-user-gw-1.us.oracle.com (inet-user-gw-1.us.oracle.com [192.86.155.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10409 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:48:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ACHOWDHU.IN.ORACLE.COM.ofcmail@in.oracle.com) Received: from insun023 (insun023.in.oracle.com [152.69.168.23]) by inet-user-gw-1.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA23528 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:46:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by insun023 (SMI-8.6/37.8) id OAA13096; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:41:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199802091941.OAA13096@insun023> Date: 10 Feb 98 01:33:52 +0530 From: "Atish" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Auto-reply: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD Reply-to: ACHOWDHU.IN.ORACLE.COM.ofcmail@in.oracle.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.1.3.40) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_ORCL_2344243_0_0" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=_ORCL_2344243_0_0 Content-Transfer-Encoding:quoted-printable Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, I am on leave till mid Feb'98. Will try to get back to you as soon as possible. -regards Atish #..........................................................................#= >From : Atish Datta Chowdhury Oracle Software Development Centre India Development Centre 150 Embassy Point Bangalore 560001 Telephone: (088) 2256099 Extn:496/atish e-mail: achowdhu@in.oracle.com #..........................................................................#= --=_ORCL_2344243_0_0 Content-Type:message/rfc822 Date: 10 Feb 98 00:49:46 From:Sean Eric Fagan To:hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject:Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD Reply-to:INUNIX2.IN.ORACLE.COM:hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Received:from inet16.us.oracle.com by insun023 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.8) id OAA13034; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:33:02 -0500 Received:from smyrno.sol.net (mail@smyrno.sol.net [206.55.64.117]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18855; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:40:11 -0800 (PST) Received:from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by smyrno.sol.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/SNNS-1.02) with ESMTP id NAA26876; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:23:01 -0600 (CST) Received:from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA03442; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:22:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received:by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:20:07 -0800 Received:(from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02158 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:20:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received:from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02085 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:19:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received:(from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA05117; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:19:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Message-Id:<199802091919.LAA05117@kithrup.com> In-Reply-To:<25466.887050372.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@time.cdrom.com> References:Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:43:51 EST." Organization:Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender:owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop:FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding:quoted-printable Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In article <25466.887050372.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@time.cdrom.com> Jordan writes: >> experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to >> learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code >> from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier, >> approach. >Erm, no actually. The approach you've taken isn't the masochistic one >at all, it's really the ONLY approach to take. You think people have >time to *write* about this stuff and work on it too? ;-) It's enough >work just keeping /usr/src up to date for most developers, and I'm >afraid that reading the code IS the way to do what you want to do. Well, that's not *completely* true :). First, anyone interested in kernel hacking should probably read one or more of the following books: The Design and Implementation of the UNIX Operating System, by Maurice J. Bach The Design and Implementation of the 4.3BSD Operating System, by Marshall Kirk McKusick et al The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating Sytem, by Marshall Kirk McKusick et al A Commentary on the UNIX Operatin System, by John Lions (recently republished, although I don't know if the title is the same) For those who are in the San Francisco Bay Area, Kirk McKusick also periodically offers an excellent course that walks through the kernel sources, and explains what's going on at various bits. (You should have read at leas= t one of the above books before taking the "advanced" course, although I don't know what the difference between teh "beginner" and "advanced" courses is.) Lastly (plug plug) there's an article in the current (March, 1998) issue of Dr Dobb's Journal that describes the process of adding a feature to the kernel, and I think does a fairly good job of explaining it as long as the reader ha= s experience in programmin in C. And, for the curious... I read the Bach book, and then started playing aroun= d with the kernel code (specifically, I first added ACL support to the Xenix kernel, and then got job control working in SCO SysVr3.2). I've since read the rest of the books above, and taken Kirk's course (not necessarily in that order). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message --=_ORCL_2344243_0_0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 11:53:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11559 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:53:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11488 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:52:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04046; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:52:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802091952.LAA04046@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: kmitch@cslab.vt.edu cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Zip/CD and Stable/Current In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:58:04 EST." <199802091358.IAA14080@labrador.cslab.vt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:52:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I just received a brand new gateway PC that I need to install FreeBSD on. > This PC has an SM9432TX card in it, so I was trying to install stable > and current from 2/8/98 and both lock up the machine right before sysinstall > comes up (it even displays the message that it is starting sysinstall). > > The PC itself is a Gateway model 3110 which is a Pentium II 233 machine > with both a zip and a CDrom drive on the secondary IDE channel. If I > disable the secondary IDE channel, then it will boot. 2.2.5 boots fine, but > tries to put the zip drive on the CD driver and the end result is both > the zip and the cdrom drive are inaccessible. > > It appears that something has changed in the IDE stuff that could be > responsible for this lockup. Has anyone else seen this?? Is the Zip the slave on the secondary IDE channel? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 12:58:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21547 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:58:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kai.nectar.com (kai.nectar.com [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21432 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:56:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@kai.nectar.com) Received: from kai.nectar.com (localhost.nectar.com [127.0.0.1]) by kai.nectar.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02110 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:26:22 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802092026.OAA02110@kai.nectar.com> From: Jacques Vidrine To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD In-reply-to: <199802091919.LAA05117@kithrup.com> References: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:43:51 EST." <199802091919.LAA05117@kithrup.com> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:26:22 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Also, this time around, Dr. McKusick provided an opportunity to receive class materials and video tapes of the 15 lectures in his "advanced" course for a reasonable fee. I've viewed two of the lectures so far and I'm enjoying them immensely. It is nice to get some insight and history from Dr. McKusick. Thanks, Kirk! I do not know if Dr. McKusick intends to do this again in the future, nor do I know if you can begin receiving tapes from the current course at this time. However, Alex Nash may be able to answer these questions if you are interested. He seems to have helped Dr. McKusick organize this. Thanks, Alex! Jacques Vidrine On 9 February 1998 at 11:19, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: [snip] > For those who are in the San Francisco Bay Area, Kirk McKusick also > periodically offers an excellent course that walks through the kernel sources , > and explains what's going on at various bits. (You should have read at least > one of the above books before taking the "advanced" course, although I don't > know what the difference between teh "beginner" and "advanced" courses is.) [snip] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 13:51:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00852 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:51:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (uucp@osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA00810 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:51:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA09879 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:51:32 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA03099 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:51:01 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802092151.WAA03099@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: weird hardware info request To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:51:01 +0100 (MET) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry for this but: anyone got a picture of the physical dimensions of an ATX mainboard? Specifically I need the rear-cutout dimensions (so where the connectors and the exp board bulkheads are). Wilko (plans on hacking hardware this time..) _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 14:09:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05292 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:09:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05190 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:09:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04650; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:08:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802092208.OAA04650@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hm@kts.org cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD updated Installation / Adminsitration Kit In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:39:01 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:08:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > HP DDS drives work well. So where do i get a Sony from ? > > > > Er, Sony, I would expect. At least here, they know where their > > distributors are. > > Hey, are they giving it away for free now to fix FreeBSD drivers or > are you suggesting to buy a second DDS drive ? ;-) Well, I'd have to say that borrowing one would be a better move. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 14:23:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07934 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:23:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mars.aros.net (mars.aros.net [207.173.16.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07924 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:22:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msanders@shell.aros.net) Received: from shell.aros.net (root@shell.aros.net [207.173.16.19]) by mars.aros.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA16103; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.aros.net (msanders@localhost.aros.net [127.0.0.1]) by shell.aros.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03091; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:22:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802092222.PAA03091@shell.aros.net> X-Attribution: msanders To: Wilko Bulte cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: weird hardware info request In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 22:51:01 +0100." <199802092151.WAA03099@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Mailer: MH 6.8.3 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 15:22:47 -0700 From: "Michael K. Sanders" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199802092151.WAA03099@yedi.iaf.nl>, Wilko Bulte writes: > >anyone got a picture of the physical dimensions of an ATX mainboard? >Specifically I need the rear-cutout dimensions (so where the connectors >and the exp board bulkheads are). There are actually several different I/O panel variations. The Intel PR440FX[1], for example, has built-in Ethernet/USB/Audio connectors. Most ATX case manufacturers provide separate I/O plates depending on the motherboard you use. Intel also has an ATX specification in Acrobat format[2], but I don't have Acrobat here so I'm not sure if that has what you're looking for. If it doesn't, you might try this[3]. [1]: http://developer.intel.com/design/motherbd/pr/pr_con.htm#4 [2]: http://developer.intel.com/design/motherbd/atx.htm [3]: http://www.teleport.com/~atx/ >Wilko (plans on hacking hardware this time..) Have fun. :) :: Mike :: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 14:49:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13304 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:49:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13269 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:49:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kpneal@pobox.com) Received: from kpneal.users.mindspring.com (user-38ld8n3.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.162.227]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA15408 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:49:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980209224912.0097d27c@mail.mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mail.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:49:12 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:19 AM 2/9/98 -0800, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > A Commentary on the UNIX Operatin System, by John Lions > (recently republished, although I don't know if > the title is the same) "Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition" -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Junior, Comp. Sci. - House of Retrocomputing XCOMM mailto:kpneal@pobox.com - http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ XCOMM kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu Spoken by Keir Finlow-Bates: XCOMM "Good grief, I've just noticed I've typed in a rant. Sorry chaps!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 14:57:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15291 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:57:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15213 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:57:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09440; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:59:06 GMT Message-ID: <006901bd35ad$6aca5060$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Obi Wan Oblivion" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:48:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well you can also look at the kernel call manpages. >> experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to >> learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code >> from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier, >> approach. > >Erm, no actually. The approach you've taken isn't the masochistic one >at all, it's really the ONLY approach to take. You think people have >time to *write* about this stuff and work on it too? ;-) It's enough >work just keeping /usr/src up to date for most developers, and I'm >afraid that reading the code IS the way to do what you want to do. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 15:05:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17008 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:05:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16976 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:04:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA14102; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:04:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980209170459.02429@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:04:59 -0600 From: dannyman To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: how to submit a diff? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hello, i'm relatively new to hackers, but i just now, for no really good reason other than the fact i know enough to do so, and could find enough errors to warrant it, revised the pw(8) man page. the context diff file is weighing in about ~25k, and while the FreeBSD Handbook says i should email diffs to this mailing list, i just wanted to double-check if it really *is* a keen idea to send a relatively uninteresting set of corrections to a whole bunch of uninterested people. if anyone thinks they know better than i do, please fill me in! uhmmm, tia. :) oh ... btw, i just upgraded to -current, and some programs like vim are suddenly interpreting BS and DEL in the opposite manner to which i am accustomed. if anyone can give me a pointer in the right direction to fixing this problem, i'd 'ppreciate it. -dan -- //Dan -=- This message brought to you by djhoward@uiuc.edu -=- \\/yori -=- Information - http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ -=- aiokomete -=- Our Honored Symbol deserves an Honorable Retirement To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 15:21:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20805 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:21:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20773 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:21:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA28571; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:17:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:17:25 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: dannyman cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to submit a diff? In-Reply-To: <19980209170459.02429@urh.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, dannyman wrote: > i'm relatively new to hackers, but i just now, for no really good reason > other than the fact i know enough to do so, and could find enough errors to > warrant it, revised the pw(8) man page. Great! > the context diff file is weighing in about ~25k, and while the FreeBSD > Handbook says i should email diffs to this mailing list, i just wanted to Yes, that's what the handbook says, and I've been planning to read-through that section for a while (and probably will this weekend, now) and fix those little things. :) Use send-pr to submit any-such feature-additions or bugfixes. If you think it worthwhile, you can also send a note to freebsd-hackers/freebsd-committers pointing to the pr so that (hopefully) it comes to someone's attention. The reason for sending it via send-pr is that email to -hackers will sometimes disappear. If it is sent-pr, it will not disappear, although it may languish for a while (do not interepret any slowness in addressing it as ingratitude on FreeBSD's part --- just part of the (unfortunate) nature of the beast). -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 15:41:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24015 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:41:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk (jraynard.demon.co.uk [158.152.42.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23752; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:39:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fhackers@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: (from fhackers@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.6.12) id UAA23647; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:43:10 GMT Message-ID: <19980209204308.57442@demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:43:08 +0000 From: James Raynard To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: List master -Reply Mail-Followup-To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <199802091753.JAA12448@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802091753.JAA12448@hub.freebsd.org>; from Jonathan M. Bresler on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 09:53:23AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 09:53:23AM -0800, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: [rather strange query snipped] > is there is a reason that you cannot maintain your > own subscriptions, please tell me. Jonathan, As a result of the disk crash I was kicked off freebsd-chat (fortunately not an important list). Since then, I have been trying to re-subscribe, and also join some other lists. I have mailed majordomo daily to no apparent effect and mailed postmaster@freebsd.org about this on 3rd Feb, also to no apparent effect (not really a complaint, I can imagine that mailbox not being particularly enjoyable reading). None of these lists are particularly important to me and I don't really mind if I never get subscribed to them, but I can see why some people are getting very frustrated. Any chance you could have a look into this? I can supply extracts from my mail logs, if that would help. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 16:18:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29821 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.scsn.net (scsn.net [206.25.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29810 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:18:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmaddox@scsn.net) Received: from rhiannon.scsn.net ([208.133.153.87]) by mail.scsn.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-41950U6000L1100S0) with ESMTP id AAA173; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:15:00 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.scsn.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA02044; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:17:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root) Message-ID: <19980209191724.00020@scsn.net> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:17:24 -0500 From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) To: Eivind Eklund , dmaddox@scsn.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ANSI X3.241-1994 Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net Mail-Followup-To: Eivind Eklund , dmaddox@scsn.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980204193248.51214@scsn.net> <19980209171852.02605@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <19980209171852.02605@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 05:18:52PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 05:18:52PM +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 07:32:48PM -0500, Donald J. Maddox wrote: > > Anybody have a pointer to ANSI X3.241-1994? I know I can get it from > > Global Engineering, but that's $ and I'd like to avoid that :-) > > I called them about some SCSI specs once, and they wanted lots o' > > cash. Shortly thereafter, I found the info I needed freely available > > on the net... Maybe the same is true in this case as well? > > That's the ANSI C standard, right? It's not freely available at this > point. The closest you can get is the draft of the next standard. No, this one is the specification that describes STAC LZS compression... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 17:49:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14231 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:49:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14220 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:48:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06071; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:47:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802100147.RAA06071@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: ade@demon.net cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot floppy banner In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Feb 1998 16:56:52 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:47:23 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith writes: > > > >What has to happen is that someone has to write the third-stage > >bootstrap. The biosboot code will shrink substantially when this > >happens. > > Ok. Forgive my ignorance in any of the below comments - I probably > need to hit myself over the head with a clue-by-four as far as > i386 booting goes.. :) Feh. There is only one place to start. > AIUI, with the two-stage boot process at the moment (MBR and biosboot), > the i386 validates the contents of the first few sectors of the disk, > loads in biosboot at some low memory location, Almost. Loads boot1, executes. Boot2 locates & loads boot2. > this code runs, prints > up the boot prompt, determines the kernel image to load, blits it in > at the 1Mb region, and passes control over and away we go. As far > as the end user is concerned, they can either sit and do nothing, > or type one line of text to load a different kernel.. > > Splitting this into three stage process: > > 1. MBR loads biosboot at > 2. biosboot runs and prompts > "where do you want to load the next boot program?" > 3. biosboot loads at > 4. runs and prompts > "which kernel do you want to load?" > 5. loads at 1Mb > 6. kernel runs.. > > Assuming I haven't messed up anywhere above :), I don't see where > the code shrinkage comes from.. biosboot still needs BAD144 etc.. > to be able to load the 3rd stage boot, and we still want to give > the pilot a choice as to where this code is loaded from.. All the code for parsing kernel options goes. The code for loading the kernel is simplified. The splash code goes. The VESA code goes. The NEXTBOOT code goes. The protected mode/real mode switch code may be simplified (depending on where boot3 is actually loaded). More importantly, adding more features doesn't involve more boot2 bloat. (Sorry for the delay here). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 17:50:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14544 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:50:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14505 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:50:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06098; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:48:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802100148.RAA06098@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: ade@demon.net, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot floppy banner In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Feb 1998 07:13:58 GMT." <199802080713.AAA27347@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:48:36 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm also starting to tinker with FreeBSD/ELF -- I've read John's > > comments about the bootloader that supports both a.out and ELF > > kernels being too big (presumably because it has the BAD144 cruft > > in it as well). > > Actually, the problem is all the a.out cruft being in there as well. How much smaller is the ELF loader? > Or you could write an ELF program which, when loaded from the boot > blocks that understood ELF, would load a.out kernels. Please do. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 18:44:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23399 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:44:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23383 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA29508; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:42:57 -0800 (PST) To: dannyman cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to submit a diff? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:04:59 CST." <19980209170459.02429@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:42:57 -0800 Message-ID: <29505.887078577@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > the context diff file is weighing in about ~25k, and while the FreeBSD > Handbook says i should email diffs to this mailing list, i just wanted to It does? Could you point me at the reference? It's supposed to tell you to use send-pr! Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 18:44:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23413 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:44:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp [202.239.16.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23389 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:44:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junichi@astec.co.jp) Received: from amont.astec.co.jp (amont.astec.co.jp [172.20.10.1]) by tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6W-astecMX2.3) with ESMTP id LAA11065; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:44:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from stone.astec.co.jp (stone.astec.co.jp [172.20.10.23]) by amont.astec.co.jp (8.7.6/3.6Wbeta5-astecMX2.4) with ESMTP id LAA25088; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:45:23 +0900 (JST) Received: (from junichi@localhost) by stone.astec.co.jp (8.8.5/3.5W-solaris1-1.2) id LAA13370; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:44:22 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199802100244.LAA13370@stone.astec.co.jp> To: kmitch@cslab.vt.edu cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Zip/CD and Stable/Current In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:58:04 EST." <199802091358.IAA14080@labrador.cslab.vt.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:44:22 +0900 From: Satoh Junichi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The PC itself is a Gateway model 3110 which is a Pentium II 233 machine > with both a zip and a CDrom drive on the secondary IDE channel. If I > disable the secondary IDE channel, then it will boot. 2.2.5 boots fine, but > tries to put the zip drive on the CD driver and the end result is both > the zip and the cdrom drive are inaccessible. > > It appears that something has changed in the IDE stuff that could be > responsible for this lockup. Has anyone else seen this?? The ZIP drive reports AT_TYPE_DIRECT. On FreeBSD 2.2.5R, wcdattach() is called when a AT_TYPE_DIRECT device is found. If wcdattach() proves the ZIP drive, it may freeze. To avoid it, there are two solutions. 1. Use wfd driver in RELENG_2_2 branch that supports ATAPI LS-120 and ZIP drives. 2. Append 'break' to atapi.c like this. (if you don't use the ZIP drive and your CD-ROM drive reports AT_TYPE_CDROM.) == atapi.c ========================================================== switch (ap->devtype) { default: /* unknown ATAPI device */ printf ("wdc%d: unit %d: unknown ATAPI type=%d\n", ctlr, unit, ap->devtype); break; case AT_TYPE_DIRECT: /* direct-access */ break; <---- !!! NOTICE !!! case AT_TYPE_CDROM: /* CD-ROM device */ #if NWCD > 0 /* ATAPI CD-ROM */ if (wcdattach (ata, unit, ap, ata->debug) < 0) ====================================================================== --- Junichi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:02:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27197 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:02:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from red.juniper.net (red.juniper.net [208.197.169.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27187 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:02:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pst@juniper.net) Received: from base.juniper.net (base.juniper.net [208.197.169.208]) by red.juniper.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18460; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:01:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pst@localhost) by base.juniper.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) id TAA06707; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:01:59 -0800 (PST) To: Marc Slemko Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. (a vendor speaks...) References: <199802050149.RAA23069@kithrup.com> From: Paul Traina Date: 09 Feb 1998 19:01:59 -0800 In-Reply-To: marcs@znep.com's message of 5 Feb 98 02:08:07 GMT Message-ID: <7yd8gw5fiw.fsf_-_@base.juniper.net> Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.16 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For what it's worth, we would have no objection to Kirk's hooks and stubs going into FreeBSD, nor would we have any objection to other similar projects as long as the non-poison'ed version of the OS does not suffer. Suffer includes, but is not limited to, performance degredation and bit-rot. FreeBSD is one of the most widely OEM'ed non-embedded OSs in the world because of the unrestricted licensing options. Companies like Whistle, and to a much lesser extent, Juniper, contribute to the FreeBSD project because we believe in this OS. Making FreeBSD unfriendly to OEM developers would be a pity. Paul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:08:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28250 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:08:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28099 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:07:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06648; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:06:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802100306.TAA06648@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Satoh Junichi cc: kmitch@cslab.vt.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Zip/CD and Stable/Current In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:44:22 +0900." <199802100244.LAA13370@stone.astec.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:06:27 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The PC itself is a Gateway model 3110 which is a Pentium II 233 machine > > with both a zip and a CDrom drive on the secondary IDE channel. If I > > disable the secondary IDE channel, then it will boot. 2.2.5 boots fine, but > > tries to put the zip drive on the CD driver and the end result is both > > the zip and the cdrom drive are inaccessible. > > > > It appears that something has changed in the IDE stuff that could be > > responsible for this lockup. Has anyone else seen this?? > > The ZIP drive reports AT_TYPE_DIRECT. > On FreeBSD 2.2.5R, wcdattach() is called when a AT_TYPE_DIRECT device is > found. If wcdattach() proves the ZIP drive, it may freeze. The problem is that at a later stage when the CDROM or Zip is being probed by sysinstall (we think the CDROM), the transaction is lost. I am not sure yet whether this is a quirk resulting from the way sysinstall does things or a genuine issue. (I don't have a Zip at the moment.) > To avoid it, there are two solutions. > > 1. Use wfd driver in RELENG_2_2 branch that supports ATAPI LS-120 and > ZIP drives. This is the initial case, where the system locks solid. Does anyone know which CDROM the Gateway 3110 machine uses? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:35:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02461 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:35:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02406 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:34:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA21993; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:34:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802100334.TAA21993@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Paul Traina cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. (a vendor speaks...) In-reply-to: Your message of "09 Feb 1998 19:01:59 PST." <7yd8gw5fiw.fsf_-_@base.juniper.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:34:31 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, There is a small task team iron out soft update and hence the issue has quiet down on the mailing list -- so please don't rock the boat. Enjoy, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:36:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02758 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:36:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02747 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:36:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA20600; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:36:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980209213632.10214@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:36:32 -0600 From: dannyman To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to submit a diff? References: <19980209170459.02429@urh.uiuc.edu> <29505.887078577@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <29505.887078577@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 06:42:57PM -0800 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 06:42:57PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > the context diff file is weighing in about ~25k, and while the FreeBSD > > Handbook says i should email diffs to this mailing list, i just wanted to > > It does? Could you point me at the reference? It's supposed to tell > you to use send-pr! http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook250.html#524 Tim Vanderhoek says he intends to fix it this weekend. -- //Dan -=- This message brought to you by djhoward@uiuc.edu -=- \\/yori -=- Information - http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ -=- aiokomete -=- Our Honored Symbol deserves an Honorable Retirement To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:40:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03665 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:40:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from imo26.mail.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03376 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:39:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from StevenR362@aol.com) From: StevenR362@aol.com Received: from StevenR362@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id HXDWa18883 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:38:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:38:35 EST To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: PCI IDE DMA? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was poking around the Tyan web site and noticed their partial list of drives that do not support dma. I was wondering how much error checking FreeBSD's ide dma driver does. In other words, if I enable it with my current drives, is it likely to hose my filesystems? Does it query the drives and only dma to those that support it? My current drives are an NEC DSE1700A 1.7GB pio4 capable drive and an WDC AC2850F 850MB pio3 capable drive. My motherboard is a Tyan Tomcat IV D with 32MB EDO and currently a single pentium 200 MMX running a uniprocessor 2/8/98 current. Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to fire it up with two cpu's. :) Also does ide dma work in smp mode? Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:56:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06613 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:56:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06583 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:56:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06845 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:56:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802100356.TAA06845@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG reply-to: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:56:08 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Please pardon the crosspost to -isp; I'm looking for comments from people with experience administering backup strategies for largish networks, and I suspect some of you lurk there.) I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or similar.) I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that's been involved in setting up and/or operating such a backup system, as well as perhaps being interested in doing something similar for the FreeBSD project. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 23:24:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29973 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:24:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29950 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:23:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01037; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:24:39 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199802100724.IAA01037@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: PCI IDE DMA? In-Reply-To: from "StevenR362@aol.com" at "Feb 9, 98 10:38:35 pm" To: StevenR362@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:24:39 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to StevenR362@aol.com who wrote: > > I was poking around the Tyan web site and noticed their partial > list of drives that do not support dma. I was wondering how much > error checking FreeBSD's ide dma driver does. In other words, if I > enable it with my current drives, is it likely to hose my filesystems? > Does it query the drives and only dma to those that support it? No and Yes. > > My current drives are an > NEC DSE1700A 1.7GB pio4 capable drive and an > WDC AC2850F 850MB pio3 capable drive. > > My motherboard is a Tyan Tomcat IV D with 32MB EDO and currently > a single pentium 200 MMX running a uniprocessor 2/8/98 current. > Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to fire it up with two cpu's. :) > Also does ide dma work in smp mode? Yes, I run a dual P6/200 with two Maxtor EIDE drives, works like a charm. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 23:33:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02201 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:33:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02195 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:33:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA03915; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:33:46 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199802100733.FAA03915@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: logrotate, a proposal To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:33:46 -0200 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=ELM887096026-3830-0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ELM887096026-3830-0_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I could not sleep, so I went hacking. :) I have modified newsyslog.c to create the logrotate. The sources are attached. If some commiter think it has enough quality to be integrated, please do so. I tried not to make many changes to the original sources. In fact, the rotate function is just the same (except for minor bugs) as the one in newsyslog.c. Maybe it's useful to make them a crunched program, but I did not bother doing it this way. During the conversion, I found the following (cosmetic) bugs in newsyslog: 1) getopt receives and argument for a -t flag, but it's not used. 2) If newsyslog is not setuid, shouldn't it be owned by bin.bin ? 3) printf lack a \n at the "Start new log..." message, and at the "chmod ..." message, right below. 4) The rotate algorithm is not very smart. Maybe it should be rewritten. Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 --ELM887096026-3830-0_ Content-Type: application/x-gtar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=logrotate.tgz Content-Description: New utility for FreeBSD 2.2-stable Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sIAM4B4DQCA+1a61fbRhbnK/orbpwm2EQI2zwDJWcdAon3AOZgsk2b5FBZGtsqtqSjBw60+d/3 d2ckWfKDPNjmQ9fTUyyP7mvu+44z8HqBF5mRWF/62xZtVne2tmiJiGqbm/KTtuvqU60qNjZ3qljb O1uAqtW3N5Zoa+kHrDiMzIBo6Q/PdW/vgbOc0Fn6561BZv9T81p0nYH43/OowayJ3Wfaf7Mq7b+9 s7OzvbW1A6iNah32ry7s/7evx8s/Ne09So2v31DNqFPt+fPt9WptvbZNtereRn2vWiOpIDr65NNP mnZ+0Xp9sJw5j6YdHp80XrefHdDaL+ZgkPv66rB1en5x1G5fnTcu3xx8KK3HYbDecdz13p3jfyjN BmXyH0r3QbTal8fNdwAyeneA0V42z1q/nB0sg7KmnTbOdnPiGbuaZjiuNYhtQT93QtvwA69nDK9f aEv/52sc/zlt/dj439zc3hrH/3aV43+rurWI/x+xjA8llQFy5pdJQP1XNzY4Geys16rr1V2q7uzV 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(8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06315 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:07:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16135; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd016073; Tue Feb 10 01:06:55 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA20965; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:06:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802100806.BAA20965@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: boot floppy banner To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:06:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, ade@demon.net, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802100148.RAA06098@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 9, 98 05:48:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Actually, the problem is all the a.out cruft being in there as well. > > How much smaller is the ELF loader? Not that much smaller. But it's having both that's the problem. > > Or you could write an ELF program which, when loaded from the boot > > blocks that understood ELF, would load a.out kernels. > > Please do. 8) I'll think about it; it's pretty trivial, I'm betting, except where the "extras" are concerned (they made some things vastly more complex, unfortunately). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 00:32:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA09323 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:32:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA09318 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:32:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00459; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:31:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802100831.AAA00459@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot floppy banner In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:06:49 GMT." <199802100806.BAA20965@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:31:55 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Actually, the problem is all the a.out cruft being in there as well. > > > > How much smaller is the ELF loader? > > Not that much smaller. But it's having both that's the problem. Understood. > > > Or you could write an ELF program which, when loaded from the boot > > > blocks that understood ELF, would load a.out kernels. > > > > Please do. 8) > > I'll think about it; it's pretty trivial, I'm betting, except where > the "extras" are concerned (they made some things vastly more complex, > unfortunately). Which things do they complexify, and how? I'm not really attached to the way that the current "extras" stuff works; if there is a more ELF-friendly way to do it, then I'm all ears. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 00:35:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA09787 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:35:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bmccane.maxbaud.net ([208.155.166.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA09766 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:35:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@bmccane.maxbaud.net) Received: from bmccane.maxbaud.net (localhost.mccane.com [127.0.0.1]) by bmccane.maxbaud.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA07013; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:34:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from root@bmccane.maxbaud.net) Message-Id: <199802100834.CAA07013@bmccane.maxbaud.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Brian Somers cc: Ulf Zimmermann , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Feb 1998 07:39:19 GMT." <199802040739.HAA23697@awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:34:30 -0600 From: Wm Brian McCane Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > [.....] > > So far, so good, everything works fine. Now I need to connect the offsite > > hosts via an ip tunnel to the main location. The offsite has to start > > the tunnel, as it has a dynamic address on the public. I tried several > > things with ppp, iptunnel (2 different ones) and ssh, but all are not stable > > nor user friendly. > > The latest ppp (-current, -stable and http://www.FreeBSD.org/~brian) > has a full working example of a tunnel setup in the PPP OVER TCP > section of the man page. There's also an example in ppp.conf.sample. > > > Has anyone come up with something simular ? Any pointers ? > > > > Ulf. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 > > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 > > -- > Brian , , > > Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... > > Okay, I have a program I developed to implement an VPN for a customer. It uses the tunnel drivers, and all you do is call it with the IP:port on the host machine you wish to connect to. Each person's machine(s) would need to be setup with a specific range of IP addresses on their end (I setup 2 zones 192.168.1.* and 192.168.4.* which then routed to each other). This solution as I already mentioned, will route entire LANs if you need them to: All you need do is setup tun0, add a route to the other network via the tunnel, and fire up the program. voila, brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 00:41:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10823 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:41:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10818 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:41:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@panda.hilink.com.au) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA27813; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:40:40 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:40:40 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal In-Reply-To: <199802100733.FAA03915@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Joao, I wanted to do a bit more with logrotate than just rotate to .0, .1 etc. I'd like it to accept a strftime(3) format for the extension, along the lines of e.g. 'date +%h'. Would you like to look into adding this facility? Thanks, Danny /* Daniel O'Callaghan */ /* HiLink Internet danny@hilink.com.au */ /* FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard... danny@freebsd.org */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 01:19:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16042 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:19:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16036 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:18:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA04692; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:18:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004683; Tue Feb 10 02:18:54 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA23887; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:18:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802100918.CAA23887@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: boot floppy banner To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:18:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802100831.AAA00459@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 10, 98 00:31:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'll think about it; it's pretty trivial, I'm betting, except where > > the "extras" are concerned (they made some things vastly more complex, > > unfortunately). > > Which things do they complexify, and how? I'm not really attached to > the way that the current "extras" stuff works; if there is a more > ELF-friendly way to do it, then I'm all ears. Mostly "knowing where it's safe to load a second stage ELF-based a.out booter below 1M". One very real problem is that we need to start thinking in terms of running the initial kernel code (a second stage boot at a minimum) in real mode, and making it the kernel's responsibility to go to protected mode. Have you looked at the GRUB code? It claims to have FreeBSD patches available, though I'm sure they are quite dated. It makes the same request for the kernel to do its own transition to protected mode. It makes the error of asking the kernel to accept it's idea of memory, and a couple of other things, though: if the OS specific boot's second stage runs in real mode, it can find that stuff out for itself. It would have to, for ELF vs. a.out, unless we were to also make an ELF second stage (not a bad idea, but more work). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 01:32:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18247 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:32:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18241 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:32:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00698; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:31:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802100931.BAA00698@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot floppy banner In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:18:52 GMT." <199802100918.CAA23887@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:31:56 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I'll think about it; it's pretty trivial, I'm betting, except where > > > the "extras" are concerned (they made some things vastly more complex, > > > unfortunately). > > > > Which things do they complexify, and how? I'm not really attached to > > the way that the current "extras" stuff works; if there is a more > > ELF-friendly way to do it, then I'm all ears. > > Mostly "knowing where it's safe to load a second stage ELF-based a.out > booter below 1M". How does this complexify the extras loading? The "extras" rock up as more ELF segments, which the a.out booter can ignore. If we have ELF as a reality for 3.0, I'll abandon any formal attempt to get the "extras" stuff into the a.out kernel. The patches can remain for people that want/need them, but I don't see them having any real utility. Of course, once you have written this a.out loader, you will have been sucked into writing the third-stage bootstrap I've been whining about for ages. Then the "extras" loading moves there anyway, size stops being an issue, and you can handle both kernel types. > One very real problem is that we need to start thinking in terms of > running the initial kernel code (a second stage boot at a minimum) > in real mode, and making it the kernel's responsibility to go to > protected mode. I'm still not entirely convinced of this. Certainly we need more code in real mode, but whether that should be the third-stage boot or kernel startup I'm not sure. > Have you looked at the GRUB code? It claims to have FreeBSD patches > available, though I'm sure they are quite dated. It makes the same request > for the kernel to do its own transition to protected mode. I looked at it a while back; building it was an atrocious pain and I was somewhat put off by the blocklisting that it used and the unfriendly syntax of the CLI. I've investigated a few other bootloaders, but ultimately the one I keep coming back to is the NetBSD-i386 standalone loader. If you want to make a serious stab at a new bootloader for FreeBSD, *this* is the one you want. It's a really nice piece of work, but removing it from the NetBSD kernel to allow it to be built on its own is something akin to ripping the living heart out of a rhinoceros using a dental probe. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 02:11:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA23757 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:11:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from murkwood.gaffaneys.com (dialup9.gaffaneys.com [208.155.161.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA23748 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zach@gaffaneys.com) Received: (from zach@localhost) by murkwood.gaffaneys.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) id EAA05165; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:09:58 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980210040957.27917@gaffaneys.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:09:57 -0600 From: Zach Heilig To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bootblock sizes (was bad144 ravings) References: <199802072254.OAA07140@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199802072254.OAA07140@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sat, Feb 07, 1998 at 02:54:53PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 07, 1998 at 02:54:53PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > The issue at hand here is the size of the 'boot2' file, which may not > exceed 14 sectors @ 512B each (in order to fit on a 15spt disk), or > 7168 bytes. Doesn't FreeBSD require a 1.44MB disk to install from? That would give us 18spt, or 9216 bytes. That should give enough room for bad144 as well as the recent enhancements. Unless there are some harddisks that have less than 18spt. Looking through /etc/disktab, I see: pan60|Panasonic Laptop's 60MB IDE:\ :dt=ST506:ty=winchester:se#512:nt#13:ns#17:nc#565:\ ^^ So maybe 17 should be the upper limit. That would make life harder on those people who need to boot from 1.2MB disks, but they are not going to be installing from any recent install floppy anyway. That may require yet another directory in /usr/src/sys/i386/boot for 1.2Meg disks though... Maybe what we need is a bootblock configuration file similar to what the kernel uses :-) -- Zach Heilig -- zach@gaffaneys.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 02:20:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA25046 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:20:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA25016 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:20:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA01018; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:19:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802101019.CAA01018@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Zach Heilig cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bootblock sizes (was bad144 ravings) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:09:57 CST." <19980210040957.27917@gaffaneys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:19:17 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sat, Feb 07, 1998 at 02:54:53PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > The issue at hand here is the size of the 'boot2' file, which may not > > exceed 14 sectors @ 512B each (in order to fit on a 15spt disk), or > > 7168 bytes. > > Doesn't FreeBSD require a 1.44MB disk to install from? That would give > us 18spt, or 9216 bytes. That should give enough room for bad144 as > well as the recent enhancements. Unless there are some harddisks that > have less than 18spt. Looking through /etc/disktab, I see: > > pan60|Panasonic Laptop's 60MB IDE:\ > :dt=ST506:ty=winchester:se#512:nt#13:ns#17:nc#565:\ > ^^ > So maybe 17 should be the upper limit. That won't let the bootblocks hide inside the label space in a filesystem on a dedicated disk. We've been through this already; I'm sorry for giving the wrong justification in my previous message. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 02:27:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26516 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:27:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA26511 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:27:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01746; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd001737; Tue Feb 10 03:26:57 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA25351; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:26:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802101026.DAA25351@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: boot floppy banner To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:26:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802100931.BAA00698@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 10, 98 01:31:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Which things do they complexify, and how? I'm not really attached to > > > the way that the current "extras" stuff works; if there is a more > > > ELF-friendly way to do it, then I'm all ears. > > > > Mostly "knowing where it's safe to load a second stage ELF-based a.out > > booter below 1M". > > How does this complexify the extras loading? The "extras" rock up as > more ELF segments, which the a.out booter can ignore. If we have ELF > as a reality for 3.0, I'll abandon any formal attempt to get the > "extras" stuff into the a.out kernel. The patches can remain for > people that want/need them, but I don't see them having any real > utility. Well, they are already in the a,out kernel, right? Where do they get loaded so that I won't step on them? > Of course, once you have written this a.out loader, you will have been > sucked into writing the third-stage bootstrap I've been whining about > for ages. Then the "extras" loading moves there anyway, size stops > being an issue, and you can handle both kernel types. Well, not really. I technically wouldn't have to write a third stage for an ELF kernel, at least for it to work. > > One very real problem is that we need to start thinking in terms of > > running the initial kernel code (a second stage boot at a minimum) > > in real mode, and making it the kernel's responsibility to go to > > protected mode. > > I'm still not entirely convinced of this. Certainly we need more code > in real mode, but whether that should be the third-stage boot or kernel > startup I'm not sure. Either one works, but the problem is that if there is only a third stage booter for a.out and not for ELF (the initially simplest picture), then if the kernel goes protected, it saves a lot of work on a third stage ELF loader to get a minimal implementation. > > Have you looked at the GRUB code? It claims to have FreeBSD patches > > available, though I'm sure they are quite dated. It makes the same request > > for the kernel to do its own transition to protected mode. > > I looked at it a while back; building it was an atrocious pain and I > was somewhat put off by the blocklisting that it used and the > unfriendly syntax of the CLI. I've investigated a few other > bootloaders, but ultimately the one I keep coming back to is the > NetBSD-i386 standalone loader. > > If you want to make a serious stab at a new bootloader for FreeBSD, > *this* is the one you want. It's a really nice piece of work, but > removing it from the NetBSD kernel to allow it to be built on its own > is something akin to ripping the living heart out of a rhinoceros > using a dental probe. Heh. "This won't hurt... ...there". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 02:50:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00999 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:50:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pactole.sagem.fr (pactole.sagem.fr [194.3.186.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00982 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:50:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from haury@sagem.fr) From: haury@sagem.fr Received: from hermes.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by pactole.sagem.fr (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id LAA26999 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:50:32 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802091904.UAA27173@sagem.fr> Subject: TOP: proposal to add sort feature To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:04:23 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=ELM887051063-26654-0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ELM887051063-26654-0_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have modified the top utility this weekend in order to have the sort option. I have put the patch file for -stable (CTM src-2.2 611) in attachment. This patch works on -current (CTM cvs-cur 4053) but I haven't compile it. The job done was to modify the current machine.c according to the top original m-sunos5.c and adding a compile option in the Makefile. I have used exactly the same sunos5 macros even if the ORDERKEY_PCTCPU is not really a nice one. It wasn't a great effort to do that since the needed code was completly written on FreeBSD machine.c ;-). -- Christian Haury (Christian.Haury@sagem.fr) SAGEM Eragny - France phone : +33 1 34 30 53 93 fax : +33 1 34 30 50 28 Opinions hereabove are my own and not those of my employer --ELM887051063-26654-0_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=DIFF Content-Description: /usr/src/usr.bin/top patch file Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit *** ./usr.bin/top/Makefile.ctm Tue Apr 29 09:44:15 1997 --- ./usr.bin/top/Makefile Mon Feb 9 18:56:48 1998 *************** *** 3,9 **** TOPDIR= ${.CURDIR}/../../contrib/top .PATH: ${TOPDIR} ! CFLAGS+= -DHAVE_GETOPT -I${.CURDIR} -I${TOPDIR} # # The table size should be a prime number approximately twice as --- 3,9 ---- TOPDIR= ${.CURDIR}/../../contrib/top .PATH: ${TOPDIR} ! CFLAGS+= -DHAVE_GETOPT -DORDER -I${.CURDIR} -I${TOPDIR} # # The table size should be a prime number approximately twice as *** ./usr.bin/top/machine.c.ctm Mon Sep 29 10:12:55 1997 --- ./usr.bin/top/machine.c Mon Feb 9 19:45:02 1998 *************** *** 212,217 **** --- 212,220 ---- NULL }; + /* these are names given to allowed sorting orders -- first is default */ + char *ordernames[] = + {"cpu", "size", "res", "time", NULL}; /* these are for keeping track of the proc array */ *************** *** 300,305 **** --- 303,309 ---- statics->cpustate_names = cpustatenames; statics->memory_names = memorynames; statics->swap_names = swapnames; + statics->order_names = ordernames; /* all done! */ return(0); *************** *** 686,701 **** /* comparison routine for qsort */ /* ! * proc_compare - comparison function for "qsort" ! * Compares the resource consumption of two processes using five ! * distinct keys. The keys (in descending order of importance) are: ! * percent cpu, cpu ticks, state, resident set size, total virtual ! * memory usage. The process states are ordered as follows (from least ! * to most important): WAIT, zombie, sleep, stop, start, run. The ! * array declaration below maps a process state index into a number ! * that reflects this ordering. */ static unsigned char sorted_state[] = { 0, /* not used */ --- 690,711 ---- /* comparison routine for qsort */ /* ! * proc_compares - a set of comparison function for "qsort" ! * */ + int compare_cpu(); + int compare_size(); + int compare_res(); + int compare_time(); + + int (*proc_compares[])() = { + compare_cpu, + compare_size, + compare_res, + compare_time, + NULL }; + static unsigned char sorted_state[] = { 0, /* not used */ *************** *** 707,714 **** 4 /* stop */ }; int ! proc_compare(pp1, pp2) struct proc **pp1; struct proc **pp2; --- 717,748 ---- 4 /* stop */ }; + #define ORDERKEY_PCTCPU /* compare percent cpu (pctcpu) */ \ + if (lresult = PP(p2, p_pctcpu) - PP(p1, p_pctcpu),\ + (result = lresult > 0.0 ? 1 : lresult < 0.0 ? -1 : 0) == 0) + + #define ORDERKEY_CPTICKS /* compare cpu ticks (cpticks) */ \ + if ((result = PP(p2, p_cpticks) - PP(p1, p_cpticks)) == 0) + + #define ORDERKEY_STATE /* compare process state */ \ + if ((result = sorted_state[(unsigned char) PP(p2, p_stat)] - \ + sorted_state[(unsigned char) PP(p1, p_stat)]) == 0) + + #define ORDERKEY_PRIO /* compare priority */ \ + if ((result = PP(p2, p_priority) - PP(p1, p_priority)) == 0) + + #define ORDERKEY_RSSIZE /* compare resident set size (rssize) */ \ + if ((result = VP(p2, vm_rssize) - VP(p1, vm_rssize)) == 0) + + #define ORDERKEY_MEM /* compare total virtual memory used */ \ + if ((result = PROCSIZE(p2) - PROCSIZE(p1)) == 0) + + + /* compare_cpu : the comparison function for sorting by cpu percentage */ + /* (original proc_compare rewritten with macros) */ + int ! compare_cpu(pp1, pp2) struct proc **pp1; struct proc **pp2; *************** *** 723,755 **** p1 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp1; p2 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp2; ! /* compare percent cpu (pctcpu) */ ! if ((lresult = PP(p2, p_pctcpu) - PP(p1, p_pctcpu)) == 0) ! { ! /* use cpticks to break the tie */ ! if ((result = PP(p2, p_cpticks) - PP(p1, p_cpticks)) == 0) ! { ! /* use process state to break the tie */ ! if ((result = sorted_state[(unsigned char) PP(p2, p_stat)] - ! sorted_state[(unsigned char) PP(p1, p_stat)]) == 0) ! { ! /* use priority to break the tie */ ! if ((result = PP(p2, p_priority) - PP(p1, p_priority)) == 0) ! { ! /* use resident set size (rssize) to break the tie */ ! if ((result = VP(p2, vm_rssize) - VP(p1, vm_rssize)) == 0) ! { ! /* use total memory to break the tie */ ! result = PROCSIZE(p2) - PROCSIZE(p1); ! } ! } ! } ! } ! } ! else ! { ! result = lresult < 0 ? -1 : 1; ! } return(result); } --- 757,856 ---- p1 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp1; p2 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp2; ! ORDERKEY_PCTCPU ! ORDERKEY_CPTICKS ! ORDERKEY_STATE ! ORDERKEY_PRIO ! ORDERKEY_RSSIZE ! ORDERKEY_MEM ! ; ! ! return(result); ! } ! ! /* compare_size - the comparison function for sorting by total memory usage */ ! ! int ! compare_size(pp1, pp2) ! ! struct proc **pp1; ! struct proc **pp2; ! ! { ! register struct kinfo_proc *p1; ! register struct kinfo_proc *p2; ! register int result; ! register pctcpu lresult; ! ! /* remove one level of indirection */ ! p1 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp1; ! p2 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp2; ! ! ORDERKEY_MEM ! ORDERKEY_RSSIZE ! ORDERKEY_PCTCPU ! ORDERKEY_CPTICKS ! ORDERKEY_STATE ! ORDERKEY_PRIO ! ; ! ! return(result); ! } ! ! /* compare_res - the comparison function for sorting by resident set size */ ! ! int ! compare_res(pp1, pp2) ! ! struct proc **pp1; ! struct proc **pp2; ! ! { ! register struct kinfo_proc *p1; ! register struct kinfo_proc *p2; ! register int result; ! register pctcpu lresult; ! ! /* remove one level of indirection */ ! p1 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp1; ! p2 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp2; ! ! ORDERKEY_RSSIZE ! ORDERKEY_MEM ! ORDERKEY_PCTCPU ! ORDERKEY_CPTICKS ! ORDERKEY_STATE ! ORDERKEY_PRIO ! ; ! ! return(result); ! } ! ! /* compare_time - the comparison function for sorting by total cpu time */ ! ! int ! compare_time(pp1, pp2) ! ! struct proc **pp1; ! struct proc **pp2; ! ! { ! register struct kinfo_proc *p1; ! register struct kinfo_proc *p2; ! register int result; ! register pctcpu lresult; ! ! /* remove one level of indirection */ ! p1 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp1; ! p2 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp2; ! ! ORDERKEY_CPTICKS ! ORDERKEY_PCTCPU ! ORDERKEY_STATE ! ORDERKEY_PRIO ! ORDERKEY_MEM ! ORDERKEY_RSSIZE ! ; return(result); } --ELM887051063-26654-0_-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 03:50:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08726 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:50:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08715 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:50:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id MAA11216 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:50:37 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:50:36 +0100 (MET) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Luigi's audio drivers Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 10 Feb 1998 12:50:33 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Pretty please with sugar on top: can Luigi Rizzo's audio drivers go into -stable? 1) they seem to work well, 2) if you don't actually use them, they don't change anything except add a few lines in files.i386 and in soundcard.h, and 3) reinstalling them after every cvsup really sucks :) -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:01:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA11211 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:01:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA11206 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:01:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA18802; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:00:40 -0800 (PST) To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Luigi's audio drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "10 Feb 1998 12:50:33 +0100." Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:00:40 -0800 Message-ID: <18798.887112040@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Pretty please with sugar on top: can Luigi Rizzo's audio drivers go > into -stable? > > 1) they seem to work well, > > 2) if you don't actually use them, they don't change anything except > add a few lines in files.i386 and in soundcard.h, and Actually, right now the changes to soundcard.h break the non-Luigi soundcard drivers for me. Luigi said he'd work on it when he has time. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:09:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA13678 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA13673 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:09:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id NAA14301; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:09:06 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:09:04 +0100 (MET) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Luigi's audio drivers References: <18798.887112040@time.cdrom.com> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 10 Feb 1998 13:09:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:00:40 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > Pretty please with sugar on top: can Luigi Rizzo's audio drivers go > > into -stable? > Actually, right now the changes to soundcard.h break the non-Luigi > soundcard drivers for me. Luigi said he'd work on it when he has > time. OK, I'll be patient then :) -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:17:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14774 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:17:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA14769 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:17:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA15574; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:48:39 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802101048.LAA15574@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Luigi's audio drivers To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:48:39 +0100 (MET) Cc: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <18798.887112040@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 10, 98 04:00:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Actually, right now the changes to soundcard.h break the non-Luigi > soundcard drivers for me. Luigi said he'd work on it when he has > time. and I am still waiting for the cvs-web interface to come up again to see what's the status of the driver in -stable... i guess i'll have to resort to ftp... cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:19:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA15177 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:19:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA15133 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:19:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA24829; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:19:12 -0800 (PST) To: Luigi Rizzo cc: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Luigi's audio drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:48:39 +0100." <199802101048.LAA15574@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:19:12 -0800 Message-ID: <24825.887113152@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > and I am still waiting for the cvs-web interface to come up again to see > what's the status of the driver in -stable... If I knew how to bring it back, I would. :( Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:22:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA16669 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:22:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA16596; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:22:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16288; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:24:02 GMT Message-ID: <001e01bd361d$db1e7600$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Cc: Subject: whereis java? Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:17:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG the pointer to the java download on http://www.freebsd.org/java/ doesn't seem to work, anonymous logins aren't being taken on hub.freebsd.org, also i was wondering if anyone had any sucsess getting the java version of ICQ to work with a socks5 proxy? it's been "sorta" working here and there, in fact with messing with my NATd setup it almost started working however a lot of features weren't working. has there been any recent updates on the jdk1.1.5 though? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:37:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA18874 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:37:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [194.93.177.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA18811 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:36:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@relay.ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08546; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:33:11 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru) From: Ruslan Ermilov Message-Id: <199802101233.OAA08546@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-Reply-To: <199802100834.CAA07013@bmccane.maxbaud.net> from "Wm Brian McCane" at "Feb 10, 98 02:34:30 am" To: root@bmccane.maxbaud.net (Wm Brian McCane) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:33:10 +0200 (EET) Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, ulf@Alameda.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-My-Interests: Unix,Oracle,Networking X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, guys! If you want, take a look at http://www.ucb.crimea.ua/~ru/FreeBSD/iptunnel This program uses divert sockets and tunnels IP thru UDP. You can tunnel a whole network, a single host, and it can be done based on any firewall rule (e.g. on any combination of src/dst hosts). I've written this program to build a distributed Intranet network in our organization. We have four departments, each attached to some ISP, and we use only four real IP addresses to communicate with each other. And we use one logical intranet network. In the meantime, I'm planning to implement a crypto-feature. Let me know if you have a questions about how it works. Your feedback would be appreciated too. At the moment of writing there are 94 fetches of my program since Dec 13, 1997. Please use subject: IPTUNNEL if you have a questions about this program. Once Wm Brian McCane wrote: > > [.....] > > > So far, so good, everything works fine. Now I need to connect the offsite > > > hosts via an ip tunnel to the main location. The offsite has to start > > > the tunnel, as it has a dynamic address on the public. I tried several > > > things with ppp, iptunnel (2 different ones) and ssh, but all are not stable > > > nor user friendly. > > > > The latest ppp (-current, -stable and http://www.FreeBSD.org/~brian) > > has a full working example of a tunnel setup in the PPP OVER TCP > > section of the man page. There's also an example in ppp.conf.sample. > > > > > Has anyone come up with something simular ? Any pointers ? > > > > > > Ulf. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 > > > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 > > > > -- > > Brian , , > > > > Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... > > > > > Okay, > > I have a program I developed to implement an VPN for a customer. It > uses the tunnel drivers, and all you do is call it with the IP:port on the > host machine you wish to connect to. Each person's machine(s) would need to > be setup with a specific range of IP addresses on their end (I setup 2 zones > 192.168.1.* and 192.168.4.* which then routed to each other). This solution > as I already mentioned, will route entire LANs if you need them to: All you > need do is setup tun0, add a route to the other network via the tunnel, and > fire up the program. > > voila, > brian > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message > Regards, -- Ruslan A. Ermilov System Administrator ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea 2426679 ICQ Network, UIN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:53:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21291 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:53:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21286 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:53:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24958; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:51:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802101251.EAA24958@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Ruslan Ermilov cc: root@bmccane.maxbaud.net (Wm Brian McCane), brian@Awfulhak.org, ulf@Alameda.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:33:10 +0200." <199802101233.OAA08546@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:51:40 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I thought SKIP could also do tunneling plus it has the added feature of crypto... Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 05:31:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26179 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:31:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26174 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:31:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA03280 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:31:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:31:25 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies? In-Reply-To: <199802100356.TAA06845@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We're happy with Amanda; right now we are running it on Sparc/Solaris with a 4-tape changer and backing up 12 systems. Another machine running -stable also runs the same configuration reliably and will take up the chore while the Sparcstation is refurbished. If you have a big holding disk and a fast network you can get a lot done in a hurry. The holding disk is also important if there will be a lot of days when you can't change tapes - incrementals will still be run and stored on the holding disk until you flush them to tape. Of course, a changer is even better - since you can limit trips to the tape drive to at least every four days (or more, depending on your changer.) If you're interested in becoming a first-time amanda user, I'd recommend trying the port of 2.4.0b6 which I mailed to -ports yesterday. Support has congealed for tar and other backup types you might need for non-BSD based systems, not to mention many bug fixes and architectural changes. *WARNING* amanda-2.4 is not backwards compatible with 2.3 clients/servers. -Chris On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > (Please pardon the crosspost to -isp; I'm looking for comments from > people with experience administering backup strategies for largish > networks, and I suspect some of you lurk there.) > > I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup > strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of > data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less > unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or > similar.) > > I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that's been involved in > setting up and/or operating such a backup system, as well as perhaps > being interested in doing something similar for the FreeBSD project. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 06:08:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA00941 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sensi.pu.ru (sensi.pu.ru [194.58.105.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA00920; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:08:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vadik@sensi.pu.ru) Received: (from vadik@localhost) by sensi.pu.ru (8.8.8/8.7.3) id RAA04142; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:08:20 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: <19980210170819.38551@sensi.org> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:08:19 +0300 From: vadik likholetov To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: my arlan 655 driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e X-NCC-RegID: ru.hqlgu Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is driver for Aironet's Airlan 655. It's port of linux driver with some modifications from Alex Kicelew. It works in TMA (640<->655) and non-TMA(655<->655) mode. The driver is very alpha quality and will be rereleased very soon. The latest version driver from http://www.sensi.org/~vadik/freebsd/ Seems to work under 2.2x. Bugfixes/comments/enhancements are welcome -- just mail me :-) -- vadik likholetov To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 07:17:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09938 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:17:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-37.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09931 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:17:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id HAA20700; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:17:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:17:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802101517.HAA20700@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <24936.887047908@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Japan trip report.. From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * As promised, I did a little trip report on my recent PR tour of Tokyo. * In keeping with the modern trend towards using the web for everything, * and especially since there were so many images involved, I did my * report in HTML for a change. Please see: * * http://www.freebsd.org/~jkh/japan/report * * Thanks to all the FreeBSD developers and friends who were such * gracious hosts during my stay there! You made this a most enjoyable * experience indeed... This is most interesting! By the way, the big "T" painted on the street in the first picture means "there is an intersection here". If you are reading this and are wondering why the hell we need that. Take a look at the picture, and you'll see the streets are so crowded it's hard to navigate your car without those marks.... The "odd Japanese meal" is called "okonomi-yaki". And you are that it is reqired of all foreigners, we take great pleasure in looking at you guys squirm and fumble around the pancakes! :) Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 07:54:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14995 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:54:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14985; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:54:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA08184; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:55:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA14654; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:17:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id KAA05589; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:59:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:59:38 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199802101559.KAA05589@lakes.dignus.com> To: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, michaelh@cet.co.jp Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options) Cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 03:23:45PM +0900, Michael Hancock wrote: > > Eivind, > > > > I'd like to see "sanity checks" (assertions) and diagnostic logging > > separated. DIAGNOSTICS turns on both, but I'd like to be able to run an > > assertion checking kernel without all the logging. > > Absolutely agreed. I was thinking of > > _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive) > _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions > INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions. > DIAGNOSTIC - Messages to help tracing errors; non-overwhelming amount. > > The difference between _INVARIANTS and INVARIANT_CODE is that INVARIANT_CODE > just includes the actual code necessary to be able to check an invariant, > while _INVARIANTS actually throw in the code that do calls to check the > invariant. > > The reason for the underscores is that header files are likely to depend on > those options. The separation of the INVARIANT_CODE and _INVARIANTS is to > be able to support enabling invariant-checks in only some files. Separation > of _INVARIANTS and _ASSERTS is that there is often a factor of >1000 > difference between the cost of checking pre-conditions and the cost of > checking post-conditions/data-structure invariants. One quick comment - ANSI C reserves names which begin with an underscore followed by a capital letter. It's possible (albeit unlikely) that a future C compiler would warn, or produce errors for these. Just an observation. - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 08:00:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16355 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:00:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA16272; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:59:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05734; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:59:55 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA15684; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:59:55 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980210165955.11440@follo.net> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:59:55 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Thomas David Rivers Cc: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, michaelh@cet.co.jp, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options) References: <199802101559.KAA05589@lakes.dignus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199802101559.KAA05589@lakes.dignus.com>; from Thomas David Rivers on Tue, Feb 10, 1998 at 10:59:38AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 10, 1998 at 10:59:38AM -0500, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > One quick comment - ANSI C reserves names which begin with an > underscore followed by a capital letter. It's possible (albeit > unlikely) that a future C compiler would warn, or produce errors > for these. Just an observation. Isn't the point that these are in the implementation namespace and reserved for operating system use? That's why I used them, anyway. Any better suggestions are welcome, of course. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 08:29:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21903 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:29:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21892 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:29:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10519; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:28:32 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199802101628.OAA10519@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal In-Reply-To: from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Feb 10, 98 07:40:40 pm" To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:28:32 -0200 (EDT) Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Daniel O'Callaghan) // Hi Joao, // // I wanted to do a bit more with logrotate than just rotate to .0, .1 etc. // I'd like it to accept a strftime(3) format for the extension, along the // lines of e.g. 'date +%h'. Would you like to look into adding this facility? My main concern when creating this program was just extract the rotate facility from newsyslog. IMHO, newsyslog sources are a mess, and need a complete rewrite, but I forced myself to make the fewest possible changes. If I try to make the change you ask, I'll be tempted to change EVERYTHING, including newsyslog. If we had a logrotate working, newsyslog could just call it with the right arguments. If this is ok for everybody, I'll try to find some time this weekend to do this. If someone has any other idea for logrotate and/or newsyslog, please tell me before that. BTW: I have done this previous work based on -stable newsyslog. Are there significative changes in -current ? Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 09:02:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28617 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:02:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28554 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:01:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11416; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:01:42 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199802101701.PAA11416@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal In-Reply-To: from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Feb 10, 98 07:40:40 pm" To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:01:42 -0200 (EDT) Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Daniel O'Callaghan) // I wanted to do a bit more with logrotate than just rotate to .0, .1 etc. // I'd like it to accept a strftime(3) format for the extension, along the // lines of e.g. 'date +%h'. Would you like to look into adding this facility? Just occurred to me: What should happen if somebody specifies a date format that have a limit on count and a count bigger than this limit ? For example, %h and a count of 20. Worst, how would I know from the format how to "walk" through the old logs and select the older one to delete ? I cannot believe in the file date for this. Also, strftime needs a date as an argument. Which date would I feed into logrotate ? You don't have this problem in the script for wtmp rotating because 1) it does not delete old files, just overwrites them 2) it's always called at the first day of the month, so "yesterday" is the reference month. Maybe it's better not add such a feature in logrotate, and leave only numeric extensions. (This does not mean I've changed my mind about newsyslog and logrotate needing to be fully rewritten) Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 09:18:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02276 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:18:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (root@cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02230 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:17:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA05718; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:17:38 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:17:37 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson X-Sender: cjs@cynic.portal.ca Reply-To: cjs@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@bsdi.com Subject: tail -F patches Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This was really popular with the NetBSD crowd, so I thought I'd forward it on to you folks. The following patches to tail(1) add a -F option which will make it continue to follow data appended to a file even if the file is rotated by newsyslog(8) or something similar, or truncated. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. Index: forward.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/forward.c,v retrieving revision 1.8 diff -u -r1.8 forward.c --- forward.c 1997/10/19 23:45:08 1.8 +++ forward.c 1998/02/09 19:21:43 @@ -91,6 +91,15 @@ { int ch; struct timeval second; + int dostat = 0; + struct stat statbuf; + off_t lastsize = 0; + dev_t lastdev; + ino_t lastino; + + /* Keep track of file's previous incarnation. */ + lastdev = sbp->st_dev; + lastino = sbp->st_ino; switch(style) { case FBYTES: @@ -166,9 +175,11 @@ } for (;;) { - while ((ch = getc(fp)) != EOF) + while ((ch = getc(fp)) != EOF) { + lastsize++; /* track size changes between stats */ if (putchar(ch) == EOF) oerr(); + } if (ferror(fp)) { ierr(); return; @@ -186,6 +197,39 @@ if (select(0, NULL, NULL, NULL, &second) == -1) err(1, "select: %s", strerror(errno)); clearerr(fp); + + if (fflag == 1) + continue; + /* + * We restat the original filename every five seconds. If + * the size is ever smaller than the last time we read it, + * the file has probably been truncated; if the inode or + * or device number are different, it has been rotated. + * This causes us to close it, reopen it, and continue + * the tail -f. If stat returns an error (say, because + * the file has been removed), just continue with what + * we've got open now. + */ + if (dostat > 0) { + dostat -= 1; + } else { + dostat = 5; + if (stat(fname, &statbuf) == 0) { + if (statbuf.st_dev != lastdev || + statbuf.st_ino != lastino || + statbuf.st_size < lastsize) { + lastdev = statbuf.st_dev; + lastino = statbuf.st_ino; + lastsize = 0; + fclose(fp); + if ((fp = fopen(fname, "r")) == NULL) + err(1, "can't reopen %s: %s", + fname, strerror(errno)); + } else { + lastsize = statbuf.st_size; + } + } + } } } Index: tail.1 =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/tail.1,v retrieving revision 1.5 diff -u -r1.5 tail.1 --- tail.1 1997/10/19 23:45:11 1.5 +++ tail.1 1998/02/09 19:21:44 @@ -44,7 +44,11 @@ .Nd display the last part of a file .Sh SYNOPSIS .Nm -.Op Fl f Li | Fl r +.Oo +.Fl f | +.Fl F | +.Fl r +.Oc .Oo .Fl b Ar number | .Fl c Ar number | @@ -93,6 +97,21 @@ The .Fl f option is ignored if the standard input is a pipe, but not if it is a FIFO. +.It Fl F +The +.Fl F +option is the same as the +.Fl f +option, except that every five seconds +.Nm +will check to see if the file named on the command line has been +shortened or moved (it is considered moved if the inode or device +number changes) and, if so, it will close +the current file, open the filename given, print out the entire +contents, and continue to wait for more data to be appended. +This option is used to follow log files though rotation by +.Xr newsyslog 8 +or similar programs. .It Fl n Ar number The location is .Ar number Index: tail.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/tail.c,v retrieving revision 1.5 diff -u -r1.5 tail.c --- tail.c 1997/10/19 23:45:11 1.5 +++ tail.c 1998/02/09 19:21:44 @@ -111,8 +111,11 @@ obsolete(argv); style = NOTSET; - while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "b:c:fn:r")) != -1) + while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "Fb:c:fn:r")) != -1) switch(ch) { + case 'F': + fflag = 2; + break; case 'b': ARG(512, FBYTES, RBYTES); break; @@ -136,7 +139,7 @@ argv += optind; if (fflag && argc > 1) - err(1, "-f option only appropriate for a single file"); + err(1, "-f and -F options only appropriate for a single file"); /* * If displaying in reverse, don't permit follow option, and convert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 09:18:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02456 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:18:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from services.BSDI.COM (services.BSDI.COM [205.230.225.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02349 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:18:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-support@bsdi.com) Received: from support.BSDI.COM (daemon@support.BSDI.COM [205.230.224.45]) by services.BSDI.COM (8.8.8+ESF/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23675; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:18:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by support.BSDI.COM (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA01927; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:20:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:20:14 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802101720.KAA01927@support.BSDI.COM> From: BSDI Customer Support To: cjs@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: tail -F patches [BSDI-Support-Request #47019] Reply-to: support@bsdi.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is an automated response. There is no need to reply now. Your message regarding: tail -F patches was received by BSDI Support on Tuesday, 10-Feb-1998 10:20:13. and was assigned request number 47019. In order help us track the progress of this request, we ask that you please include the exact string [BSDI-Support-Request #47019] in the subject line of any further mail about this particular request. For example: Subject: tail -F patches [BSDI-Support-Request #47019] You may do this simply by replying to this email. See also the Problem Reporting Procedures in the release notes. For releases prior to BSD/OS V2.0 see the file: ftp://ftp.bsdi.com/bsdi/support/misc/problem-reporting For timely resolution of your problem (*especially kernel panics*) you need to be sure to send us all the information requested. Please read that section now and follow up with any additional information that you can. See Our Web Site ---------------- The BSDI Support team now has information available on the web. See the following: http://www.bsdi.com/support BSD/OS Quick FAQs ----------------- Be sure you have installed all the current patches for your release. Email ``help'' to patches@bsdi.com for information about getting patches. These will fix most common problems that people report. Email ``send index'' to patches@bsdi.com for a complete list of available patches and updates. Quick Tips ---------- Digiboards: If you have problems with output on a Digiboard (or similar kinds of problems on anything, including ethernet cards) you should try a configuration at a different IRQ. IRQ 15 is most often a problem on PCI machines that have stolen for other purposes, but we have seen problems with other IRQ's as well. If changing IRQ's doesn't help then send us details per the Problem Reporting Procedures in the release notes and let us know what you have tried. The new /dev/sr* cdrom devices are not created on upgrades: # cd /dev # mknod /dev/sr0a b 34 0 0 # mount -t cd9660 /dev/sr0a /cdrom # mv MAKEDEV MAKEDEV.orig # cp /cdrom/dev/MAKEDEV . # ./MAKEDEV sr0 sr1 sr2 sr3 make any other cdrom devices you need and merge in any local changes you have made to MAKEDEV. SENDMAIL and DNS: Users running systems without Domain Name Service (DNS) will need to create an /etc/service.switch file and add ``hostsfiles'' to it, this can be done with this command: printf 'hosts\tfiles\n' >> /etc/service.switch For details see ``man -M sendmail op'' (section 2.4. The Service Switch) If you have problems with a Seagate Barracuda SCSI hard drive contact your hardware vendor for a firmware upgrade and/or swap. Firmware revs before 15 seem to have lots of problems. US Customer Support Voice: +1 800 ITS BSD8 Berkeley Software Design, Inc. Voice: +1 719 260 8114 7759 Delmonico Drive Voice: +1 512 219 5879 Colorado Springs, CO 80919 FAX: +1 719 598 4238 EMAIL: For reference purposes, your mail has been included below. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Received: from services.BSDI.COM (services.BSDI.COM [205.230.225.19]) by support.BSDI.COM (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01919 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (root@cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by services.BSDI.COM (8.8.8+ESF/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23639 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA05718; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:17:38 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:17:37 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson X-Sender: cjs@cynic.portal.ca Reply-To: cjs@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, support@bsdi.com Subject: tail -F patches [BSDI-Support-Request #47019] Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Request-Do: class support Cc: support@bsdi.com This was really popular with the NetBSD crowd, so I thought I'd forward it on to you folks. The following patches to tail(1) add a -F option which will make it continue to follow data appended to a file even if the file is rotated by newsyslog(8) or something similar, or truncated. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. Index: forward.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/forward.c,v retrieving revision 1.8 diff -u -r1.8 forward.c --- forward.c 1997/10/19 23:45:08 1.8 +++ forward.c 1998/02/09 19:21:43 @@ -91,6 +91,15 @@ { int ch; struct timeval second; + int dostat = 0; + struct stat statbuf; + off_t lastsize = 0; + dev_t lastdev; + ino_t lastino; + + /* Keep track of file's previous incarnation. */ + lastdev = sbp->st_dev; + lastino = sbp->st_ino; switch(style) { case FBYTES: @@ -166,9 +175,11 @@ } for (;;) { - while ((ch = getc(fp)) != EOF) + while ((ch = getc(fp)) != EOF) { + lastsize++; /* track size changes between stats */ if (putchar(ch) == EOF) oerr(); + } if (ferror(fp)) { ierr(); return; @@ -186,6 +197,39 @@ if (select(0, NULL, NULL, NULL, &second) == -1) err(1, "select: %s", strerror(errno)); clearerr(fp); + + if (fflag == 1) + continue; + /* + * We restat the original filename every five seconds. If + * the size is ever smaller than the last time we read it, + * the file has probably been truncated; if the inode or + * or device number are different, it has been rotated. + * This causes us to close it, reopen it, and continue + * the tail -f. If stat returns an error (say, because + * the file has been removed), just continue with what + * we've got open now. + */ + if (dostat > 0) { + dostat -= 1; + } else { + dostat = 5; + if (stat(fname, &statbuf) == 0) { + if (statbuf.st_dev != lastdev || + statbuf.st_ino != lastino || + statbuf.st_size < lastsize) { + lastdev = statbuf.st_dev; + lastino = statbuf.st_ino; + lastsize = 0; + fclose(fp); + if ((fp = fopen(fname, "r")) == NULL) + err(1, "can't reopen %s: %s", + fname, strerror(errno)); + } else { + lastsize = statbuf.st_size; + } + } + } } } Index: tail.1 =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/tail.1,v retrieving revision 1.5 diff -u -r1.5 tail.1 --- tail.1 1997/10/19 23:45:11 1.5 +++ tail.1 1998/02/09 19:21:44 @@ -44,7 +44,11 @@ .Nd display the last part of a file .Sh SYNOPSIS .Nm -.Op Fl f Li | Fl r +.Oo +.Fl f | +.Fl F | +.Fl r +.Oc .Oo .Fl b Ar number | .Fl c Ar number | @@ -93,6 +97,21 @@ The .Fl f option is ignored if the standard input is a pipe, but not if it is a FIFO. +.It Fl F +The +.Fl F +option is the same as the +.Fl f +option, except that every five seconds +.Nm +will check to see if the file named on the command line has been +shortened or moved (it is considered moved if the inode or device +number changes) and, if so, it will close +the current file, open the filename given, print out the entire +contents, and continue to wait for more data to be appended. +This option is used to follow log files though rotation by +.Xr newsyslog 8 +or similar programs. .It Fl n Ar number The location is .Ar number Index: tail.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/tail.c,v retrieving revision 1.5 diff -u -r1.5 tail.c --- tail.c 1997/10/19 23:45:11 1.5 +++ tail.c 1998/02/09 19:21:44 @@ -111,8 +111,11 @@ obsolete(argv); style = NOTSET; - while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "b:c:fn:r")) != -1) + while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "Fb:c:fn:r")) != -1) switch(ch) { + case 'F': + fflag = 2; + break; case 'b': ARG(512, FBYTES, RBYTES); break; @@ -136,7 +139,7 @@ argv += optind; if (fflag && argc > 1) - err(1, "-f option only appropriate for a single file"); + err(1, "-f and -F options only appropriate for a single file"); /* * If displaying in reverse, don't permit follow option, and convert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 09:30:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05690 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:30:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from walleye.bsdi.com (root@walleye.BSDI.COM [134.195.15.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA05672 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:30:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from patm@walleye.bsdi.com) Received: from walleye.bsdi.com (patm@LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by walleye.bsdi.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA15206; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:33:27 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802101733.LAA15206@walleye.bsdi.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: cjs@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tail -F patches [BSDI-Support-Request #47019] In-reply-to: Curt Sampson's message of Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:17:37 PST. References: Cc: support@bsdi.com Reply-To: Pat McClanahan From: Pat McClanahan Organization: Berkeley Software Design, Inc. X-Request-Do: resolve Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:33:25 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Curt Sampson writes: > This was really popular with the NetBSD crowd, so I thought I'd > forward it on to you folks. > > The following patches to tail(1) add a -F option which will make > it continue to follow data appended to a file even if the file is > rotated by newsyslog(8) or something similar, or truncated. I'll pass this along to the engineers. ==================================================================== /\ Pat McClanahan Berkeley Software Design, Inc. /\/ \ patm@bsdi.com 5575 Tech Center Dr. #110 / \ \ 719-593-9445 Colorado Springs, CO 80919 ==================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 09:35:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06740 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:35:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gloria.cord.edu (nrahlstr@gloria.cord.edu [138.129.254.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06659 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:34:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nrahlstr@gloria.cord.edu) Received: from localhost (nrahlstr@localhost) by gloria.cord.edu (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA00411; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:34:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:34:00 -0600 (CST) From: Nathan Ahlstrom To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies? In-Reply-To: <199802100356.TAA06845@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup > strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of > data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less > unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or > similar.) I have been running my college's backups using amanda on 6 BSDi machines and 1 exabyte tape drive...it has been working quite well. Toss in a few scripts to automate some things and it runs more or less unattended. > I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that's been involved in > setting up and/or operating such a backup system, as well as perhaps > being interested in doing something similar for the FreeBSD project. Amanda is fairly easy to setup and run. I would definitely be willing to help out in any way possible. Thanks, Nathan Ahlstrom nrahlstr@cord.edu http://www.cord.edu/homepages/nrahlstr/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 09:55:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11206 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:55:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10827; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:54:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA23958; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:54:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA25124; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:54:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:54:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199802101754.KAA25124@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Alfred Perlstein" Cc: , Subject: Re: whereis java? In-Reply-To: <001e01bd361d$db1e7600$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> References: <001e01bd361d$db1e7600$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > the pointer to the java download on http://www.freebsd.org/java/ doesn't > seem to work, anonymous logins aren't being taken on hub.freebsd.org, also i > was wondering if anyone had any sucsess getting the java version of ICQ to > work with a socks5 proxy? Can you give me about 8 hours? I promise you'll hear something then, but I need to gamma-test my own release (it's been beta-tested), and once I'm happy I didn't shoot my foot off, it'll be announced *AND* available w/out hub's ftp. > has there been any recent updates on the jdk1.1.5 though? Yes, but they haven't (yet) been announced publically. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 10:06:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13086 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:06:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (uucp@osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA13077 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:06:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA11945 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:06:06 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id HAA06998; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:46:47 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802100646.HAA06998@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies? In-Reply-To: <199802100356.TAA06845@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Feb 9, 98 07:56:08 pm" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:46:47 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Mike Smith wrote... > > (Please pardon the crosspost to -isp; I'm looking for comments from > people with experience administering backup strategies for largish > networks, and I suspect some of you lurk there.) > > I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup > strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of > data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less > unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or > similar.) I'd go for either a DLT loader or maybe an AIT loader. DLT gives you something like 35 Gb uncompressed/tape. AIT is newer technology, with according to some source the aspirations and potential to surpass DLTs in capacity and features. For now, IMHO DLT has the advantage that it is more field proven. Problems: DLT loaders are expensive, as is the media. I'd checkout www.overland.com, they make a very nice loader, which is even expandable. I had the opportunity to dismantle one (Digital resells them) and they look mechanically very nicely built. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 10:59:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19641 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:59:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bcarsde4.nortel.ca (mailgate.nortel.ca [192.58.194.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19606 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:59:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atrens@nortel.ca) Message-Id: <199802101859.KAA19606@hub.freebsd.org> Received: from bcars520.ca.nortel.com by bcarsde4.nortel.ca; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:21:31 -0500 Received: from ca.nortel.com by bcars520.ca.nortel.com id <05006-0@bcars520.ca.nortel.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:17:00 -0500 Date: 10 Feb 1998 13:01 EST To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Andrew Atrens" Subject: pci-ide-dma side effects Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, I'm running "1/30/98 - current", on an AMD-K6/200 w. ASUS TP97 mobo. Last night curiousity got the best of me, and I was tempted to try out the wd driver's DMA support. To do this I changed my kernel config from: controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff vector wdintr to: controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff vector wdintr To make a long story short, I launched the new kernel, DMA *was* detected: Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x01 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.1.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x01 on pci0.1.1 chip2: rev 0x01 int d irq 255 on pci0.1.2 chip3: rev 0x01 on pci0.1.3 vga0: rev 0x03 on pci0.9.0 wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd0: 2446MB (5009760 sectors), 4970 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S launched X, then ran `Bonnie'. What happened next is hard to describe. :) My X screen was filled with (for want of a better description) `marching ants'. It was as though the screen was `swimming'. I suspended `Bonnie' and the swimming stopped. :) Lots of garbage on the screen, so I did a screen refresh and everything went back to normal. I resumed `Bonnie' and swimming started again on cue. Then my monitor appeared to lose the graphics card sync signal and began behaving very strangely, then it went into power-save mode and shut down. I re-suspended `Bonnie', did some CTRL-ALT-F? things and back it came! I killed and re-started Bonnie again, quickly switched to a cons screen, started `top' and waited for Bonnie to complete. I then unmounted and fsck'd the filesystem - it was clean as a whistle! And so ended the experiment. Needless to say, I've backed away from ide DMA for now. :) Comments? Have I done something glaringly stupid here to expect this result? :) (The purpose of this post, actually, is to provide some feedback to the IDE DMA folks - to hopefully help them find a bugster, if one exists. I am willing to be a guinea pig if someone requires more data about this anomoly. If hackers is the wrong forum for such a post please let me know so that I may correctly address future sightings. ) No flames please. Andrew. (opinions mine, not Nortel's) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 11:13:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22708 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:13:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22697 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:12:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dyson@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06216; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:12:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dyson) Message-Id: <199802101912.OAA06216@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. (a vendor speaks...) In-Reply-To: <7yd8gw5fiw.fsf_-_@base.juniper.net> from Paul Traina at "Feb 9, 98 07:01:59 pm" To: pst@juniper.net (Paul Traina) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:12:44 -0500 (EST) Cc: marcs@znep.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Paul Traina said: > For what it's worth, we would have no objection to Kirk's hooks and stubs > going into FreeBSD, nor would we have any objection to other similar projects > as long as the non-poison'ed version of the OS does not suffer. > > Suffer includes, but is not limited to, performance degredation and bit-rot. > The only think that Kirk's code forces is some bugfixing in our tree. Without his stuff, there is no negative effect. I happen to work at a place where we have the same concerns, and there is nothing but good happening, for both adopters and non-adopters. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 11:33:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27808 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:33:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27707 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:33:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA08758; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:32:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma008756; Tue Feb 10 11:32:30 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA02216; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:32:30 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802101932.LAA02216@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: from Alex Nash at "Feb 10, 98 10:58:39 am" To: nash@Mcs.Net Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:32:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ private email re short term fix to ipfw code, copying to hackers... ] Alex Nash writes: > > Archie Cobbs writes: > > > - If it's a pass/accept rule -> packet should match (ie, PASS) > > > - If it's a deny/reject rule -> packet should NOT match (ie, PASS) > > > - If it's some other kind of rule (skipto, divert), .. leave it > > > like it already is -> packet should match, though this is still > > > broken. > > I can't see passing packet fragments which are not supposed to pass > as being the right thing to do unless someone explicitly asks for it. If > we were to do that, why not pass all fragments? Something just bugs me about this whole thing. The bottom line is that you simply can't tell, given the available information, whether a rule that specifies port ranges and/or TCP flags should match a non-zero offset fragment. And even if you had the available information (ie, the first fragment), it's still unclear what the semantics of ipfw are supposed to be. Does the sysadmin want us to correlate the fragment with the first fragment of that packet, then apply the rule iff it matches that zero-offset fragment? Does the fact that the rule does not specify IP_FW_F_FRAG mean that the sysadmin did not intend this rule to apply to non-zero offset fragments? In other words, if we fill in all the details of the ipfw man page, then we'll have our answer. As a side note: in any case, we need to modify check_ipfw_struct() to disallow any rules which (a) have port ranges or TCP flags, and (b) have the IP_FW_F_FRAG flag set. Such rules simply don't make sense. But what is the semantics of NOT specifying the IP_FW_F_FRAG flag? Does this mean the rule ONLY applies to zero-offset fragments? PROBABLY NOT -- this would be different, unexpected behavoir. Plus everybody's firewalls would suddenly start leaking non-zero offset fragments, which would be harmless but silly. OK, let this be decided. HOWEVER, this conclusion poses a problem in the port range/TCP flags case in the context of the current code -- you simply don't have enough information (ie., the first fragment) available to compute the "right" answer. SO -- we simply have to make an exception in this case and document it. Now the question is.. which exception to make? #1 Don't even TRY to match rules containing port ranges and/or flags to non-zero offset fragments. #2 Match port range/flag rules to non-zero offset fragments by testing the rule AS IF it did not contain the port range and/or flag restrictions. #3 Do something more complicated (like I proposed). Note that #2 is our current behavior. Now I'm thinking we should stay with that. #1 is OK too. In any case, we have to choose one of the above, and most importantly we need to DOCUMENT it... e.g: #1 The "frag" option restricts the rule to only matching non-zero offset IP fragment packets. Lack of this option means the rule may match any IP packet. However, there is one exception to this: if a rule specifies a port range or TCP flags, then the rule will never match non-zero offset fragments, since such fragments do not contain this information. This means that these rules can possibly fail to match fragments of packets for which they were intended. #2 The "frag" option restricts the rule to only matching non-zero offset IP fragment packets. Lack of this option means the rule may match any IP packet. However, there is one exception to this: if a rule specifies a port range or TCP flags, then these options are temporarily removed from the rule when it is applied to non-zero offset fragments, since such fragments do not contain this information. This means that these rules can possibly match fragments of packets for which they were not intended. Etc... Take your pick. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 11:57:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02775 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:57:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02753 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:57:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02378; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:56:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802101956.LAA02378@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot floppy banner In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:26:55 GMT." <199802101026.DAA25351@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:56:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > Which things do they complexify, and how? I'm not really attached to > > > > the way that the current "extras" stuff works; if there is a more > > > > ELF-friendly way to do it, then I'm all ears. > > > > > > Mostly "knowing where it's safe to load a second stage ELF-based a.out > > > booter below 1M". > > > > How does this complexify the extras loading? The "extras" rock up as > > more ELF segments, which the a.out booter can ignore. If we have ELF > > as a reality for 3.0, I'll abandon any formal attempt to get the > > "extras" stuff into the a.out kernel. The patches can remain for > > people that want/need them, but I don't see them having any real > > utility. > > Well, they are already in the a,out kernel, right? Where do they get > loaded so that I won't step on them? I'm not sure what you mean by "already in the kernel". The code's not committed, no. If you mean "where are they loaded", they're tacked on after the data segment, before the symbol table. There's another member in the bootinfo struct that's set to point to them if they're there, and the end of the kernel (first free page) is adjusted to avoid them. In the kzip case, they're actually loaded after the kzipped kernel image, then relocated to after the kernel itself at startup. Kzipped kernel's can't have extra symbol data, so that works OK. > > Of course, once you have written this a.out loader, you will have been > > sucked into writing the third-stage bootstrap I've been whining about > > for ages. Then the "extras" loading moves there anyway, size stops > > being an issue, and you can handle both kernel types. > > Well, not really. I technically wouldn't have to write a third stage > for an ELF kernel, at least for it to work. If you didn't, I think someone else would. > > I'm still not entirely convinced of this. Certainly we need more code > > in real mode, but whether that should be the third-stage boot or kernel > > startup I'm not sure. > > Either one works, but the problem is that if there is only a third stage > booter for a.out and not for ELF (the initially simplest picture), then > if the kernel goes protected, it saves a lot of work on a third stage > ELF loader to get a minimal implementation. I think you'd find that the effort of adding the ELF loader to the third stage would be less than the effort required to run the kernel startup in real mode. YMMV, I am just conjecturing here. > > If you want to make a serious stab at a new bootloader for FreeBSD, > > *this* is the one you want. It's a really nice piece of work, but > > removing it from the NetBSD kernel to allow it to be built on its own > > is something akin to ripping the living heart out of a rhinoceros > > using a dental probe. > > Heh. "This won't hurt... ...there". That sounds like an undertaking. My advice; either rewrite their Makefiles or port the NetBSD make first. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 14:26:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28699 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:26:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28628 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:26:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@panda.hilink.com.au) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA29984; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:25:30 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:25:29 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal In-Reply-To: <199802101701.PAA11416@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > #define quoting(Daniel O'Callaghan) > // I wanted to do a bit more with logrotate than just rotate to .0, .1 etc. > // I'd like it to accept a strftime(3) format for the extension, along the > // lines of e.g. 'date +%h'. Would you like to look into adding this facility? > > Just occurred to me: > > What should happen if somebody specifies a date format that have a limit > on count and a count bigger than this limit ? For example, %h and a > count of 20. They shoot themselves in the foot, and should have specified %Y-%h. > Worst, how would I know from the format how to "walk" through the old > logs and select the older one to delete ? I cannot believe in the file > date for this. In my bourne shell version, I say 'daily' 'weekly' 'monthly' and calculate the number of days to keep the logs, based on find(1) and mtime. In a perl version, it walks the directory looking for similarly named files, and stat(2)s them, looking for files X seconds old, X being calculated from the number of seconds in a day, and the number of days to keep the files. > Also, strftime needs a date as an argument. Which date would I feed > into logrotate ? Date has a nifty '-v' feature which lets you specify 'now - 1 day' or such. Check date(1) for details. > You don't have this problem in the script for wtmp rotating because > 1) it does not delete old files, just overwrites them > 2) it's always called at the first day of the month, so "yesterday" > is the reference month. > > Maybe it's better not add such a feature in logrotate, and leave only > numeric extensions. (This does not mean I've changed my mind about > newsyslog and logrotate needing to be fully rewritten) I think it should be possible to specify the number of days/weeks/months to keep files. Of course, since the .0, .1 rotation method is used so much, it logrotate should be able to handle that, too. How does that sound? Danny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 14:35:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00856 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:35:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00832 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:35:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199802102235.OAA00832@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA106200116; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:35:16 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:35:16 +1100 (EDT) Cc: nash@Mcs.Net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802101932.LAA02216@bubba.whistle.com> from "Archie Cobbs" at Feb 10, 98 11:32:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This isn't rocket science any more... In some mail from Archie Cobbs, sie said: > > [ private email re short term fix to ipfw code, copying to hackers... ] > > Something just bugs me about this whole thing. The bottom line is > that you simply can't tell, given the available information, whether > a rule that specifies port ranges and/or TCP flags should match a > non-zero offset fragment. And even if you had the available information > (ie, the first fragment), it's still unclear what the semantics of ipfw > are supposed to be. > > Does the sysadmin want us to correlate the fragment with the first > fragment of that packet, then apply the rule iff it matches that > zero-offset fragment? That might be nice, but you need to keep a history of fragments for that to work. > Does the fact that the rule does not specify IP_FW_F_FRAG mean that > the sysadmin did not intend this rule to apply to non-zero offset > fragments? No, it means they're not matching fragments inparticular. > As a side note: in any case, we need to modify check_ipfw_struct() > to disallow any rules which (a) have port ranges or TCP flags, and > (b) have the IP_FW_F_FRAG flag set. Such rules simply don't make sense. Yup. > But what is the semantics of NOT specifying the IP_FW_F_FRAG flag? > Does this mean the rule ONLY applies to zero-offset fragments? No, it means you don't care about whether or not it is fragmented. > PROBABLY NOT -- this would be different, unexpected behavoir. Plus > everybody's firewalls would suddenly start leaking non-zero offset > fragments, which would be harmless but silly. OK, let this be decided. Huh ? > Now the question is.. which exception to make? > > #1 Don't even TRY to match rules containing port ranges and/or flags > to non-zero offset fragments. Correct. > #2 Match port range/flag rules to non-zero offset fragments by testing > the rule AS IF it did not contain the port range and/or flag > restrictions. Wrong. Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 14:46:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02726 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:46:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02642 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:46:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA10723; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:45:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma010721; Tue Feb 10 14:45:33 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA05680; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:45:32 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802102245.OAA05680@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: <199802102235.OAA00832@hub.freebsd.org> from Darren Reed at "Feb 11, 98 09:35:16 am" To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:45:32 -0800 (PST) Cc: nash@Mcs.Net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Darren Reed writes: > > Does the fact that the rule does not specify IP_FW_F_FRAG mean that > > the sysadmin did not intend this rule to apply to non-zero offset > > fragments? > > No, it means they're not matching fragments inparticular. Right- this make the most sense I think. No IP_FW_F_FRAG means it's a "don't care". > > But what is the semantics of NOT specifying the IP_FW_F_FRAG flag? > > Does this mean the rule ONLY applies to zero-offset fragments? > > No, it means you don't care about whether or not it is fragmented. Right. > > PROBABLY NOT -- this would be different, unexpected behavoir. Plus > > everybody's firewalls would suddenly start leaking non-zero offset > > fragments, which would be harmless but silly. OK, let this be decided. > > Huh ? What I meant was that the answer to the question ``Does this mean the rule ONLY applies to zero-offset fragments?'' is probably NOT. Because if we change the behavior to do this, suddenly a bunch of rules will change their semantics (ignore my confusing example). > > Now the question is.. which exception to make? > > > > #1 Don't even TRY to match rules containing port ranges and/or flags > > to non-zero offset fragments. > > Correct. OK with me -- as long as everyone realized that this is going to change the current behavior. > > #2 Match port range/flag rules to non-zero offset fragments by testing > > the rule AS IF it did not contain the port range and/or flag > > restrictions. > > Wrong. That's what we currently do. Whether #1 or #2 -- the important thing is to document it. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 14:50:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03593 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:50:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03358 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:49:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA10770; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:49:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma010760; Tue Feb 10 14:48:55 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA05691; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:48:55 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802102248.OAA05691@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-Reply-To: <199802101251.EAA24958@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Feb 10, 98 04:51:40 am" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:48:55 -0800 (PST) Cc: ru@ucb.crimea.ua, root@bmccane.maxbaud.net, brian@Awfulhak.org, ulf@Alameda.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty writes: > I thought SKIP could also do tunneling plus it has the added feature > of crypto... True... though it's not available for export out of the U.S. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 15:00:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05985 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:00:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05968 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:00:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@panda.hilink.com.au) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA00752; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:00:02 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:59:59 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, I wrote: > On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > > Worst, how would I know from the format how to "walk" through the old > > logs and select the older one to delete ? I cannot believe in the file > > date for this. > > In my bourne shell version, I say 'daily' 'weekly' 'monthly' and > calculate the number of days to keep the logs, based on find(1) and mtime. > In a perl version, it walks the directory looking for similarly named > files, and stat(2)s them, looking for files X seconds old, X being > calculated from the number of seconds in a day, and the number of days to > keep the files. The other possibility is to take expiretime = now - expiryseconds, and strftime(3) using expiretime to contruct the name of the file to delete. Try for both plain and .gz forms. Danny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 15:10:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07589 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07576 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:10:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27921; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:08:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802102308.PAA27921@rah.star-gate.com> To: Archie Cobbs cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), ru@ucb.crimea.ua, root@bmccane.maxbaud.net, brian@Awfulhak.org, ulf@Alameda.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:48:55 PST." <199802102248.OAA05691@bubba.whistle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <27918.887152098.1@rah> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:08:18 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG True we in the US can not export the technology however SKIP is available outside the US . Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 17:54:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29043 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:54:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29013 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:54:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-26.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.26]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA02979; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:53:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA05174; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:57:53 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802110057.SAA05174@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies? In-reply-to: Message from Mike Smith of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:56:08 PST." <199802100356.TAA06845@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:57:53 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup > strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of > data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less > unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or > similar.) All one filesystem? Multiple systems? Others have suggested jukebox solutions but you might consider 5 or 10 (or 2 or 3) lower cost (than DLT or AIT) Exabyte 8505's which can put an honest 4.8G (or more with compression) on a cheap tape. Plus multiple drives gives you redundancy in hardware and parallel backup for more speed. The CD-R people are pushing their hardware for backups too. In volume a 600MB CD-R disk is approaching $1. Don't think that's a viable solution for you. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 17:57:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00111 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:57:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29991 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:57:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18233; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:57:22 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199802110157.XAA18233@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal In-Reply-To: from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Feb 11, 98 09:59:59 am" To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:57:22 -0200 (EDT) Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Daniel O'Callaghan) // On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, I wrote: Talking to yourself already ? :) // > On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: // // > > Worst, how would I know from the format how to "walk" through the old // > > logs and select the older one to delete ? I cannot believe in the file // > > date for this. // > // > In my bourne shell version, I say 'daily' 'weekly' 'monthly' and // > calculate the number of days to keep the logs, based on find(1) and mtime. // > In a perl version, it walks the directory looking for similarly named // > files, and stat(2)s them, looking for files X seconds old, X being // > calculated from the number of seconds in a day, and the number of days to // > keep the files. As I said before, I don't like the idea of logrotate messing with file dates to find the file cicle. I'd like to play just on names. // The other possibility is to take expiretime = now - expiryseconds, and // strftime(3) using expiretime to contruct the name of the file to delete. // Try for both plain and .gz forms. expiretime ? I'm talking about logrotate, not newsyslog. And haven't we already finished the discussion that newsyslog should not do cron's job ? IMHO, logrotate should not be aware of time, at all. If we find some way to give strftime() style names, without having to mess with current or file time, maybe it could be used. But I think this is not possible. BTW: -stable cron does not yet has an option to retry running something it should have run but it could not (for any reason, like machine powered off). I don't know if -current already does this, but even if it doesn't, I think of it as a good idea (hint, hint :) ). This would break an option for using fixed time differences in name generation. Jonny PS: I am all against using time references, and we all know you are in favor of it. Maybe it's time to listen somebody else. -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 19:01:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13085 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:01:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA13061 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:01:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19294; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:01:11 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199802110301.BAA19294@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments In-Reply-To: <199802102235.OAA00832@hub.freebsd.org> from Darren Reed at "Feb 11, 98 09:35:16 am" To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:01:11 -0200 (EDT) Cc: archie@whistle.com, nash@Mcs.Net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Darren Reed) // > Something just bugs me about this whole thing. The bottom line is // > that you simply can't tell, given the available information, whether // > a rule that specifies port ranges and/or TCP flags should match a // > non-zero offset fragment. And even if you had the available information // > (ie, the first fragment), it's still unclear what the semantics of ipfw // > are supposed to be. // > // > Does the sysadmin want us to correlate the fragment with the first // > fragment of that packet, then apply the rule iff it matches that // > zero-offset fragment? // // That might be nice, but you need to keep a history of fragments for // that to work. Or you activate a still-to-be-released-by-some-good-soul sysctl meant to force reassembly of every incoming packet before passing through the firewall, which is my ONLY connection to the internet, so there could not be any chance of packets taking different routes to the destination. :) After all why would somebody want an alternative route bypassing a firewall ? If, in any case, somebody does this, just leave the sysctl at it's default value. Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 19:13:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16224 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:13:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nash.pr.mcs.net (nash.pr.mcs.net [204.95.47.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16213 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:13:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@nash.pr.mcs.net) Received: (from alex@localhost) by nash.pr.mcs.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id VAA08417; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:12:22 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from alex) Message-Id: <199802110312.VAA08417@nash.pr.mcs.net> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:12:21 -0600 (CST) From: Alex Nash Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au cc: archie@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802102235.QAA26217@Mailbox.mcs.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 11 Feb, Darren Reed wrote: >> Now the question is.. which exception to make? >> >> #1 Don't even TRY to match rules containing port ranges and/or flags >> to non-zero offset fragments. > > Correct. > >> #2 Match port range/flag rules to non-zero offset fragments by testing >> the rule AS IF it did not contain the port range and/or flag >> restrictions. > > Wrong. I think Darren and I are in agreement on this. The patches below modify ipfw to: - Not match fragmented packets (where offset != 0) if the rule specifies a port and/or TCP flags - Match fragmented packets (where offset != 0) if the rule does not specify a port and/or TCP flags Naturally, the standard source, dest, protocol, interface, etc. fields must also match in the above cases. Alex Index: ip_fw.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/netinet/ip_fw.c,v retrieving revision 1.77 diff -c -r1.77 ip_fw.c *** ip_fw.c 1998/02/09 06:10:10 1.77 --- ip_fw.c 1998/02/11 02:58:35 *************** *** 459,466 **** if (offset == 1) /* cf. RFC 1858 */ goto bogusfrag; ! if (offset != 0) /* Flags, ports aren't valid */ break; PULLUP_TO(hlen + 14); tcp = (struct tcphdr *) ((u_long *)ip + ip->ip_hl); if (f->fw_tcpf != f->fw_tcpnf && !tcpflg_match(tcp, f)) --- 459,476 ---- if (offset == 1) /* cf. RFC 1858 */ goto bogusfrag; ! if (offset != 0) { ! /* ! * TCP flags and ports aren't available in this ! * packet -- if this rule specified either one, ! * we consider the rule a non-match. ! */ ! if (f->fw_nports != 0 || ! f->fw_tcpf != f->fw_tcpnf) ! continue; ! break; + } PULLUP_TO(hlen + 14); tcp = (struct tcphdr *) ((u_long *)ip + ip->ip_hl); if (f->fw_tcpf != f->fw_tcpnf && !tcpflg_match(tcp, f)) *************** *** 474,481 **** { struct udphdr *udp; ! if (offset != 0) /* Ports aren't valid */ break; PULLUP_TO(hlen + 4); udp = (struct udphdr *) ((u_long *)ip + ip->ip_hl); src_port = ntohs(udp->uh_sport); --- 484,500 ---- { struct udphdr *udp; ! if (offset != 0) { ! /* ! * Port specification is unavailable -- if this ! * rule specifies a port, we consider the rule ! * a non-match. ! */ ! if (f->fw_nports != 0) ! continue; ! break; + } PULLUP_TO(hlen + 4); udp = (struct udphdr *) ((u_long *)ip + ip->ip_hl); src_port = ntohs(udp->uh_sport); *************** *** 866,871 **** --- 885,903 ---- (frwl->fw_dst.s_addr & (~frwl->fw_dmsk.s_addr))) { dprintf(("%s rule never matches\n", err_prefix)); return(NULL); + } + + if ((frwl->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_FRAG) && + (frwl->fw_prot == IPPROTO_UDP || frwl->fw_prot == IPPROTO_TCP)) { + if (frwl->fw_nports) { + dprintf(("%s cannot mix 'frag' and ports\n", err_prefix)); + return(NULL); + } + if (frwl->fw_prot == IPPROTO_TCP && + frwl->fw_tcpf != frwl->fw_tcpnf) { + dprintf(("%s cannot mix 'frag' with TCP flags\n", err_prefix)); + return(NULL); + } } /* Check command specific stuff */ Index: ipfw.8 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.8,v retrieving revision 1.37 diff -c -r1.37 ipfw.8 *** ipfw.8 1998/01/07 02:23:03 1.37 --- ipfw.8 1998/02/11 02:57:41 *************** *** 289,294 **** --- 289,300 ---- .Pa /usr/src/sys/netinet/ip_fw.h ) ports. .Pp + Fragmented packets which have a non-zero offset (i.e. not the first + fragment) will never match a rule which has one or more port + specifications. See the + .Ar frag + option for details on matching fragmented packets. + .Pp Rules can apply to packets when they are incoming, or outgoing, or both. The .Ar in *************** *** 360,365 **** --- 366,375 ---- .It frag Matches if the packet is a fragment and this is not the first fragment of the datagram. + .Ar frag + may not be used in conjunction with either + .Ar tcpflags + or TCP/UDP port specifications. .It in Matches if this packet was on the way in. .It out *************** *** 399,404 **** --- 409,420 ---- .Ar urg . The absence of a particular flag may be denoted with a ``!''. + A rule which contains a + .Ar tcpflags + specification can never match a fragmented packet which has + a non-zero offset. See the + .Ar frag + option for details on matching fragmented packets. .It icmptypes Ar types Matches if the ICMP type is in the list .Ar types . Index: ipfw.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c,v retrieving revision 1.53 diff -c -r1.53 ipfw.c *** ipfw.c 1998/01/08 03:03:50 1.53 --- ipfw.c 1998/02/11 02:57:54 *************** *** 1108,1113 **** --- 1108,1122 ---- } else if ((rule.fw_flg & IP_FW_F_OIFACE) && (rule.fw_flg & IP_FW_F_IN)) show_usage("can't check xmit interface of incoming packets"); + /* frag may not be used in conjunction with ports or TCP flags */ + if (rule.fw_flg & IP_FW_F_FRAG) { + if (rule.fw_tcpf || rule.fw_tcpnf) + errx(EX_USAGE, "can't mix 'frag' and tcpflags"); + + if (rule.fw_nports) + errx(EX_USAGE, "can't mix 'frag' and port specifications"); + } + if (!do_quiet) show_ipfw(&rule, 10, 10); i = setsockopt(s, IPPROTO_IP, IP_FW_ADD, &rule, sizeof rule); To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 19:18:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17669 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:18:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p167.tfs.net [139.146.210.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17600 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:17:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA06062; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:17:34 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199802110317.VAA06062@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Soundblaster 16 4.16 configuration In-Reply-To: from The Hermit Hacker at "Feb 10, 98 11:05:45 pm" To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:17:33 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Thu Jan 1 19:03:58 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > Found it. After further investigations (and finding pnpinfo), we > determined that altho the kernel was configured for sb0 on IRQ 10, the > card itself was "stuck" on IRQ 5, so it was conflicting with my modem... > moved the modem to IRQ7, and now it works... > > Sorry for bothering... :( you should either add the conflicts keyword to the lpt and sio devices, or move the sio to another irq. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 21:41:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25202 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:41:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25151 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:41:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@panda.hilink.com.au) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA04365; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:40:21 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:40:21 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal In-Reply-To: <199802110157.XAA18233@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > PS: I am all against using time references, and we all know you are in > favor of it. Maybe it's time to listen somebody else. Fine. I'm all for comments from others. My preference is to handle dated files *and* current-style generation files. Danny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 00:11:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12913 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:11:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (JQvSlJuRaNDt3kNDrFAPYQJVymOpT0yZ@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA12898 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:11:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA01085 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:53:26 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dap) From: Damon Permezel Message-Id: <199802110753.BAA01085@damon.com> Subject: SHMMAXPGS To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:53:26 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On my behalf, Java (XShm) is attempting to shmat several 3Meg chunks of memory. I can get at most one (well, I get zero, but that is another problem). This appears to be due to: i386/include/vmparam.h:#ifndef SHMMAXPGS i386/include/vmparam.h:#define SHMMAXPGS 1024 /* XXX until we have more kmap space */ It has said this ever since 2.1.6 (as far back as I looked) When will we have more kmap space? Where did it go? When did they come from? Is this limitation still relevant? Can I just up this? What is the max? XX% of swap? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 05:00:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04361 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:00:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA04339 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:00:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id NAA27753; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:59:30 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:59:29 +0100 (MET) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Robert Nordier , freebsd-hackers@hub.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/5710: Can't install X from DOS using setup.exe References: <22626.887193433@time.cdrom.com> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 11 Feb 1998 13:59:28 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:37:13 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > o Agree on a structured text file format, and include a file > > on the CD-ROM which setup.exe can parse, in order to construct > > its menus > That'd be nice for sysinstall too, but it's probably a bit late in > the game to go for such an aggressive redesign. [moving this to hackers for obvious reasons] Shoot me for not paying attention, but what, if any, decision was taken concerning sysinstall? Is somebody already working on a rewrite? I was planning to have a long hard look at the source tonight, and have an idea or two about a new installation tool. -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 05:51:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09470 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:51:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA09319 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:50:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from semen@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from localhost (semen@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA23026 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:51:36 +0600 (NS) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:51:36 +0600 (NS) From: Ustimenko Semen To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello! I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( It should write 4 Gig on one DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail on near 1 Gig. The seller tells it works fine under WinNT with 3d Service Pack. Is this the only way to make it work? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 05:58:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10541 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:58:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10433 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:57:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from semen@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from localhost (semen@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA23196 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:59:14 +0600 (NS) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:59:13 +0600 (NS) From: Ustimenko Semen To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am very sorry but mistake was made when i wrote previous message: All this happened with Sony SDT-7000 (not SDT-1700). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 06:13:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA12452 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 06:13:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA12418 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 06:12:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25927; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:04:42 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199802111404.PAA25927@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: bin/5710: Can't install X from DOS using setup.exe In-Reply-To: from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= at "Feb 11, 98 01:59:28 pm" To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:04:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, rnordier@iafrica.com, freebsd-hackers@hub.FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav who wrote: > Shoot me for not paying attention, but what, if any, decision was > taken concerning sysinstall? Is somebody already working on a rewrite? > I was planning to have a long hard look at the source tonight, and > have an idea or two about a new installation tool. Hurry Jordan, a VOLOUNTEER!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 07:11:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18522 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:11:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18493 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:10:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA23251; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:08:27 -0800 (PST) To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav) cc: Robert Nordier , freebsd-hackers@hub.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/5710: Can't install X from DOS using setup.exe In-reply-to: Your message of "11 Feb 1998 13:59:28 +0100." Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:08:26 -0800 Message-ID: <23248.887209706@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Shoot me for not paying attention, but what, if any, decision was > taken concerning sysinstall? Is somebody already working on a rewrite? Beats me, is someone? :-) > I was planning to have a long hard look at the source tonight, and > have an idea or two about a new installation tool. Let me know what you come up with, by all means. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 09:10:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04276 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:10:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04246 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:10:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA02194; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:08:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:08:30 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Ustimenko Semen cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote: > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( > It should write 4 Gig on one > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail > on near 1 Gig. 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 tape? -john To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 09:37:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08368 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:37:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from psasolar.psa.pencom.com (psasolar.colltech.com [208.229.236.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08258 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:37:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jra@colltech.com) From: jra@colltech.com Received: (from jra@localhost) by psasolar.psa.pencom.com (VER/What/1.0) id LAA09605 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:37:15 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802111737.LAA09605@psasolar.psa.pencom.com> Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:37:15 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I thought SKIP could also do tunneling plus it has the added feature > of crypto... Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the cracks. > Cheers, > Amancio ja. -- Joe Ammond jra@colltech.com I Believe / SM & VK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 09:50:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09917 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:50:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09906 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:50:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00661; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:50:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802111750.JAA00661@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: David Kelly cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:57:53 CST." <199802110057.SAA05174@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:50:01 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup > > strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of > > data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less > > unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or > > similar.) > > All one filesystem? Multiple systems? Multiple systems. > Others have suggested jukebox solutions but you might consider 5 or 10 > (or 2 or 3) lower cost (than DLT or AIT) Exabyte 8505's which can put an > honest 4.8G (or more with compression) on a cheap tape. I had considered this. How would this compare cost-wise with an EXB8505-based changer? > Plus multiple > drives gives you redundancy in hardware and parallel backup for more > speed. I appreciate this. The big downside with multiple drives is feeding the rotten things, and the slightly more grubby software involved. > The CD-R people are pushing their hardware for backups too. In volume a > 600MB CD-R disk is approaching $1. Don't think that's a viable solution > for you. Not unless there's a changer that behaves enough like a tape drive, no. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 10:07:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12627 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:07:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12612 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:07:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA24302 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:07:30 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:07:30 -0800 Message-ID: <24298.887220450@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Translated, that says that hub.freebsd.org AKA mail.freebsd.org is no longer offering FTP services. Nobody has really "owned" FTP services here at FreeBSD.org for awhile and the end result is that nobody bothered to move it when catfish was finally retasked, resulting in the 3rd loss of the FTP area in as many months. The fact that it wasn't being properly cared for coupled with the fact that it's also caused a bit of confusion from time to time (freebsd.org sounds just too close to ftp.freebsd.org) led me to decide not to try and resurrect the service this time. This, unfortunately, leaves us without a place to stage "development" bits and I therefore would like to call for one or two volunteer maintainers who'd be willing to maintain: ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ and ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/development/ The incoming tree being where people can drop things off for the maintainers and the development/ tree being a read-only tree admin'd by them which contains subdirectories for projects like BISDN, PicoBSD, etc. The maintainer(s) would have to be fairly responsive to new things in incoming/ since they wouldn't be actually downloadable immediately after an upload to prevent abuse by WAREZ folks - they'd have to be manually chmod'd or moved to their proper home under the development tree. Any volunteers? This is an *ongoing* responsibility, so please don't volunteer if you're just idling for a month or two between contracts and will later have no time at all. Thanks! Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 10:09:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12899 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:09:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12859; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:08:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA13884; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:06:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16159; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:28:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id NAA08236; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:10:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:10:10 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199802111810.NAA08236@lakes.dignus.com> To: eivind@yes.no, rivers@dignus.com Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options) Cc: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, michaelh@cet.co.jp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On Tue, Feb 10, 1998 at 10:59:38AM -0500, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > One quick comment - ANSI C reserves names which begin with an > > underscore followed by a capital letter. It's possible (albeit > > unlikely) that a future C compiler would warn, or produce errors > > for these. Just an observation. > > Isn't the point that these are in the implementation namespace and reserved > for operating system use? Umm... I don't think it's for operating system's use; but for C library use... a subtle difference; which is likely moot for implementing an operating system (since you likely won't be using the C library.) However, some compilers complain about the definition of such macros. It's simply a pedantic issue - I wouldn't consider it too heavily in any decisions. > > That's why I used them, anyway. Any better suggestions are welcome, of > course. > > Eivind. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 10:28:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17725 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:28:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17582 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id TAA15592; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:27:17 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:27:17 +0100 (MET) To: Mike Smith Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Robert Nordier , freebsd-hackers@hub.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/5710: Can't install X from DOS using setup.exe References: <199802111746.JAA00619@dingo.cdrom.com> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 11 Feb 1998 19:27:16 +0100 In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:46:36 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith writes: > > I was planning to have a long hard look at the source tonight, and > > have an idea or two about a new installation tool. > Please to be sharing your ideas. I wouldn't get too carried away just > yet actually implementing it, as there's a lot of water already under > the bridge on this one and you might as well benefit from that as well. I can assure you that I have no intention of reinventing the wheel, the hammer and pre-sliced bread all by myself. I humbly beg for permission to subscribe to freebsd-install... -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 11:08:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25052 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:08:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tornado.cisco.com (tornado.cisco.com [171.69.104.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25045 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:08:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (bmcgover-pc.cisco.com [171.69.104.147]) by tornado.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA01131 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:08:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA02578 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:08:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Message-Id: <199802111908.OAA02578@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:08:08 -0500 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This question may be somewhat ill formed. Hopefully, I'll make myself clear. I'm looking at taking the Cyclades driver, and moving the I/O buffers that are normally in the on-board RAM of the card, and possibly moving them to be within the physical RAM of the PC. Cyclades supports this to some levels (although they never tried it). Apparently, the big requirement is the ability to lock down the physical memory for the buffers, and then manipulate this memory in such a way as it can be seen by devices on the PCI bus, su that the card's processor can DMA to it. The questions I have are: 1 - Does FreeBSD support the ability to map system memory so its available to the PCI bus. Also, what is the proper procedure for determining the physical address of this memory, and locking it in such a way as to always be available to the card. 2 - Would it really be worthwhile pursuing this endeavor? After all, a 1-2% gain on moving a single character really isn't a big win. However 25+% very well might be. -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 11:20:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27408 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:20:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27390 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:20:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21000; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:20:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802111920.LAA21000@implode.root.com> To: Brian McGovern cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:08:08 EST." <199802111908.OAA02578@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:20:28 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >This question may be somewhat ill formed. Hopefully, I'll make myself clear. > >I'm looking at taking the Cyclades driver, and moving the I/O buffers that are >normally in the on-board RAM of the card, and possibly moving them to be >within the physical RAM of the PC. > >Cyclades supports this to some levels (although they never tried it). >Apparently, the big requirement is the ability to lock down the physical >memory for the buffers, and then manipulate this memory in such a way as >it can be seen by devices on the PCI bus, su that the card's processor can >DMA to it. > >The questions I have are: > >1 - Does FreeBSD support the ability to map system memory so its available >to the PCI bus. Also, what is the proper procedure for determining the >physical address of this memory, and locking it in such a way as to always >be available to the card. The PCI devices have access to all of the PC's memory via DMA. The CPU can also access the PCI device's memory if it is mapped. I'm familiar with the PLX 9060 and it's a bit quirky, but not that difficult to setup DMA. See the fxp driver for an example of a driver that does PCI DMA. >2 - Would it really be worthwhile pursuing this endeavor? After all, a 1-2% >gain on moving a single character really isn't a big win. However 25+% >very well might be. Maybe, maybe not. DMA will likely be slower when dealing with a small number of characters since there is a significant amount of work to do per DMA. I would guess that the fastest access would be to map the card's RAM via the PCI space and access it directly via the CPU. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 11:28:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29127 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:28:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28947 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:27:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04213; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:27:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802111927.LAA04213@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Brian McGovern Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:08:08 EST." <199802111908.OAA02578@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:27:31 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just browse the bktr driver -- /sys/pci/brooktree848.c which does pretty much what you are asking. The driver "locks down" memory to dump video to and to control the video processor on the card. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 11:37:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01597 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:37:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tornado.cisco.com (tornado.cisco.com [171.69.104.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01501 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:37:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (bmcgover-pc.cisco.com [171.69.104.147]) by tornado.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA01761; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:36:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA02653; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:36:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Message-Id: <199802111936.OAA02653@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> To: dg@root.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:36:43 -0500 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>This question may be somewhat ill formed. Hopefully, I'll make myself clear. >> >>I'm looking at taking the Cyclades driver, and moving the I/O buffers that are >>normally in the on-board RAM of the card, and possibly moving them to be >>within the physical RAM of the PC. >> >>Cyclades supports this to some levels (although they never tried it). >>Apparently, the big requirement is the ability to lock down the physical >>memory for the buffers, and then manipulate this memory in such a way as >>it can be seen by devices on the PCI bus, su that the card's processor can >>DMA to it. >> >>The questions I have are: >> >>1 - Does FreeBSD support the ability to map system memory so its available >>to the PCI bus. Also, what is the proper procedure for determining the >>physical address of this memory, and locking it in such a way as to always >>be available to the card. > > The PCI devices have access to all of the PC's memory via DMA. The CPU can >also access the PCI device's memory if it is mapped. I'm familiar with the >PLX 9060 and it's a bit quirky, but not that difficult to setup DMA. See the >fxp driver for an example of a driver that does PCI DMA. > I'll take a peek. The docs I have on the PLX9060 say about the same - that it shouldn't be too hard to do. >>2 - Would it really be worthwhile pursuing this endeavor? After all, a 1-2% >>gain on moving a single character really isn't a big win. However 25+% >>very well might be. > > Maybe, maybe not. DMA will likely be slower when dealing with a small >number of characters since there is a significant amount of work to do >per DMA. I would guess that the fastest access would be to map the card's >RAM via the PCI space and access it directly via the CPU. Lets make sure I'm following you here.... :) There are too many components labeled 'CPU' to throw it around lightly. What I _think_ you're saying (I'm starting to sound like a psychiatrist) is that it makes the most sense to map the card's memory in to the PCI address space, let the on-board CPU access its (local) RAM, and then copy large chunks across the PCI bus, which is how the card is manipulated in the current driver. The "win" I'm going for is to keep the host CPU load to a bare minimum. To be honest, barring overloading the PCI bus, I could care less about the card's CPU having to work hard, so long as it has enough time to move the data. So, to summarize: Host CPU Board CPU Is it a good thing? (tm) BUSY DMA'ing Data Driving the UARTs via Its ok. Thats how we do it local RAM today Busy Doing other Busy driving UARTs and So long as we don't loose things,occationally DMAing in to host throughput, this is moving data in/out of memory optimal to me. clists/buffers. Busy moving data Busy moving Data Not what I want. around around -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 11:53:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05326 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:53:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05314 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:53:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21296; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:43:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802111943.LAA21296@implode.root.com> To: Brian McGovern cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:36:43 EST." <199802111936.OAA02653@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:43:52 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Lets make sure I'm following you here.... :) There are too many components >labeled 'CPU' to throw it around lightly. What I _think_ you're saying >(I'm starting to sound like a psychiatrist) is that it makes the most sense >to map the card's memory in to the PCI address space, let the on-board CPU >access its (local) RAM, and then copy large chunks across the PCI bus, which >is how the card is manipulated in the current driver. > >The "win" I'm going for is to keep the host CPU load to a bare minimum. To >be honest, barring overloading the PCI bus, I could care less about the card's >CPU having to work hard, so long as it has enough time to move the data. So, >to summarize: > > >Host CPU Board CPU Is it a good thing? (tm) > >BUSY DMA'ing Data Driving the UARTs via Its ok. Thats how we do it > local RAM today > >Busy Doing other Busy driving UARTs and So long as we don't loose >things,occationally DMAing in to host throughput, this is >moving data in/out of memory optimal to me. >clists/buffers. > >Busy moving data Busy moving Data Not what I want. >around around It takes CPU time to initialize the DMA descriptors and device registers in order to start a DMA operation. This overhead will be higher than just copying out the characters to the PCI device directly like you do now if the number of characters is too small. It's not uncommon to actually use a hybrid approach with a threshold such that if there are less than n chars to output, then do it directly to the mapped PCI memory, otherwise do a DMA to the card. Does this make sense? -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 12:39:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14630 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:39:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p133.tfs.net [139.146.210.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14613 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:38:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA01413; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:38:16 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199802112038.OAA01413@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig In-Reply-To: from John Fieber at "Feb 11, 98 12:08:30 pm" To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:38:15 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Wed Feb 11 00:51:24 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote: > > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( > > It should write 4 Gig on one > > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail > > on near 1 Gig. > > 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 tape? good point! Type Length Capacity -------------------------------------------------------- DDS - 60M == 1.3G native DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression DDS-2 - 120M == 4.0G native, 8.0G using compression DDS-3 - 125M == 6.0G native, 12.0G using compression jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 12:44:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15679 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:44:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vdp01.vailsystems.com (root@vdp01.vailsystems.com [207.152.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15624 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:44:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hal@vailsys.com) Received: from crocodile.vale.com (crocodile.vale.com [192.168.128.47]) by vdp01.vailsystems.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA10695; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:43:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from jaguar.vail.vailsys.com (jaguar.vale.com [192.168.129.46]) by crocodile.vale.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA11016; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:43:56 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:43:54 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802112043.OAA11016@crocodile.vale.com> From: Hal Snyder To: jra@colltech.com CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199802111737.LAA09605@psasolar.psa.pencom.com> (jra@colltech.com) Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably References: <199802111737.LAA09605@psasolar.psa.pencom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: jra@colltech.com > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:37:15 -0600 (CST) > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I thought SKIP could also do tunneling plus it has the added feature > > of crypto... [Amancio] > > Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under > -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the > cracks. I know this doesn't exactly answer the question, but wanted to mention that we are using Jim Flowers' patch to run SKIP with FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE. We tunnel three RFC-1918 nets over the Internet with excellent results and plan to add more. Note that with original SKIP, the source IP addresses of tunneled packets for such an arrangement will be in RFC-1918 range. This feels wrong. We program our firewall chokes to drop RFC-1918 coming or going. John Capo provided a nifty patch to replace the source IP in tunneled packets with the external IP address of the source gateway. I've summarized this (crudely) at http://www.enteract.com/~hal/skip.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 12:51:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17393 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:51:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp4.teleport.com (smtp4.teleport.com [192.108.254.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17387 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:51:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrl@teleport.com) Received: from user1.teleport.com (user1.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by smtp4.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA22976; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:51:25 -0800 (PST) From: Mostyn Lewis Received: (from mrl@localhost) by user1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA08037; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:51:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802112051.MAA08037@user1.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:51:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: mrl@teleport.com (Mostyn Lewis), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802112038.OAA01413@unix.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Feb 11, 98 02:38:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Type Length Capacity > -------------------------------------------------------- > DDS - 60M == 1.3G native > DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression > DDS-2 - 120M == 4.0G native, 8.0G using compression > DDS-3 - 125M == 6.0G native, 12.0G using compression ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ DDS-3 - 125M == 12.0G native, 24.0G using compression Mostyn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 12:52:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17516 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:52:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw1.att.com [192.128.133.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA17451 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw1.att.com; Wed Feb 11 14:47 CST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by kcig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id OAA09127 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:39:15 -0600 (CST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <1TCGKCGZ>; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:53:36 -0500 Message-ID: To: jfieber@indiana.edu, jbryant@unix.tfs.net Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:53:33 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote: > > > > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( > > > It should write 4 Gig on one > > > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail > > > on near 1 Gig. > > > > 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 > tape? > > good point! > > Type Length Capacity > -------------------------------------------------------- > DDS - 60M == 1.3G native > DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression > I believe that 90M DDS-2 must be 2.0G native (and HP specified it in documentation on its DDS-2 drives) while 90M DDS is 1.3G native. I had opportunity to discover it as failed backup after ICL changed by warranty a failed DDS-2 drive to DDS drive. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 13:08:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21021 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:08:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (root@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20862 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:08:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bannai@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from bannai@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id NAA21942; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:07:52 -0800 (PST) From: Vinay Bannai Message-Id: <199802112107.NAA21942@shell6.ba.best.com> Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... In-Reply-To: <199802111920.LAA21000@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Feb 11, 98 11:20:28 am" To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:07:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: bmcgover@cisco.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to David Greenman: > >This question may be somewhat ill formed. Hopefully, I'll make myself clear. > > > >I'm looking at taking the Cyclades driver, and moving the I/O buffers that are > >normally in the on-board RAM of the card, and possibly moving them to be > >within the physical RAM of the PC. > > > >Cyclades supports this to some levels (although they never tried it). > >Apparently, the big requirement is the ability to lock down the physical > >memory for the buffers, and then manipulate this memory in such a way as > >it can be seen by devices on the PCI bus, su that the card's processor can > >DMA to it. > > > >The questions I have are: > > > >1 - Does FreeBSD support the ability to map system memory so its available > >to the PCI bus. Also, what is the proper procedure for determining the > >physical address of this memory, and locking it in such a way as to always > >be available to the card. > > The PCI devices have access to all of the PC's memory via DMA. The CPU can > also access the PCI device's memory if it is mapped. I'm familiar with the > PLX 9060 and it's a bit quirky, but not that difficult to setup DMA. See the > fxp driver for an example of a driver that does PCI DMA. Yup. Most of the PCI chipsets like PLX, let you setup the registers to do I/O map or memory map for the host to see. This becomes crucial if it is a intelligent I/O card which needs to mmap a certain section of the host memory to the locat host on the card. > > >2 - Would it really be worthwhile pursuing this endeavor? After all, a 1-2% > >gain on moving a single character really isn't a big win. However 25+% > >very well might be. > It all depends on the size of the DMA transfers. Setting up the DMA registers needs PCI bus access. PCI bus access tend to introduce latency specially when there are multiple bus masters. For small transfers, I would desist using DMA... Vinay -- Vinay Bannai E-mail: bannai@best.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 13:18:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22889 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:18:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22883 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:18:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA04448; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:18:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA00577; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:18:11 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:18:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199802112118.OAA00577@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP In-Reply-To: <24298.887220450@time.cdrom.com> References: <24298.887220450@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Translated, that says that hub.freebsd.org AKA mail.freebsd.org is no > longer offering FTP services. :( > This, unfortunately, leaves us without a place to stage "development" > bits and I therefore would like to call for one or two volunteer > maintainers who'd be willing to maintain: > > ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ > and > ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/development/ I'm *NOT* volunteering, but would it be possible to have this bits NFS-mounted on freefall, so that developers can access them w/out an account on wcarchive? This might ease some of the load, since it wouldn't require the 'ftp maintainer' to got and get bits all the time, when the only person *really* interested in them is the developer interested in the bits. Besides, I don't want him to have to wade through all the 'warez' I'm having people download there. (Just kidding, just kidding. :) :) :) :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 13:26:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24465 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:26:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA24377 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:26:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199802112126.NAA24377@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA048142315; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:25:15 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:25:15 +1100 (EDT) Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802112038.OAA01413@unix.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Feb 11, 98 02:38:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Jim Bryant, sie said: > > In reply: > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote: > > > > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( > > > It should write 4 Gig on one > > > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail > > > on near 1 Gig. > > > > 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 tape? > > good point! > > Type Length Capacity > -------------------------------------------------------- > DDS - 60M == 1.3G native > DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression > DDS-2 - 120M == 4.0G native, 8.0G using compression > DDS-3 - 125M == 6.0G native, 12.0G using compression DDS3 is 12G native, 24G w/ compression. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 13:33:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26019 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:33:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA25967 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:33:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2015297; 11 Feb 98 20:57 GMT Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0y2jAx-0003oJ-00; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:54:35 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <24298.887220450@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:54:35 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: RE: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This, unfortunately, leaves us without a place to stage "development" > bits and I therefore would like to call for one or two volunteer > maintainers who'd be willing to maintain: > > ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ > and > ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/development/ > > The incoming tree being where people can drop things off for the > maintainers and the development/ tree being a read-only tree admin'd > by them which contains subdirectories for projects like BISDN, > PicoBSD, etc. The maintainer(s) would have to be fairly responsive to > new things in incoming/ since they wouldn't be actually downloadable > immediately after an upload to prevent abuse by WAREZ folks - they'd > have to be manually chmod'd or moved to their proper home under the > development tree. > > Any volunteers? This is an *ongoing* responsibility, so please don't > volunteer if you're just idling for a month or two between contracts > and will later have no time at all. I would like to an be willing to take this on. If, you deel that a guy doing it in the evenings (UK time!) would be suitable? Bar the odd weekend away from home I should be able to keep an eye on things on a daily basis. I'm even up to generating an index etc. of incoming/ ! Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 14:22:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02771 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:22:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02753 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:22:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA08116; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:18:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:18:01 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek Reply-To: Tim Vanderhoek To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP In-Reply-To: <24298.887220450@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > This, unfortunately, leaves us without a place to stage "development" > bits and I therefore would like to call for one or two volunteer > maintainers who'd be willing to maintain: > > ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ The last will get a little-to-significantly easier when we stop telling people to upload new ports there... -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 15:14:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11276 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:14:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11199 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:13:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18060; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:07:38 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA01955; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:07:38 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980212090737.33690@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:07:37 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Ustimenko Semen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Ustimenko Semen on Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 07:51:36PM +0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 February 1998 at 19:51:36 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote: > Hello! > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( > It should write 4 Gig on one > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail > on near 1 Gig. > > The seller tells it works fine under WinNT with 3d Service Pack. > Is this the only way to make it work? No, that's a very bad way to make it work. NT tape support is almost non-existent. You don't say how you determined that you got to the end of the tape. Programs like dump have their own idea of how big the tape is, and will stop at this point even if you haven't got to EOT. I don't know dump, but it should be in the man page. If you're getting this with tar, something's seriously wrong. Don't believe the values given for compression, BTW. 2:1 compression is about best case. You should get 80% or so more on tape with compression. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 15:20:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12347 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:20:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12331 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:20:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01611; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:20:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802112320.PAA01611@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dg@root.com cc: Brian McGovern , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:20:28 PST." <199802111920.LAA21000@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:20:05 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The PCI devices have access to all of the PC's memory via DMA. The CPU can > also access the PCI device's memory if it is mapped. I'm familiar with the > PLX 9060 and it's a bit quirky, but not that difficult to setup DMA. See the > fxp driver for an example of a driver that does PCI DMA. > > >2 - Would it really be worthwhile pursuing this endeavor? After all, a 1-2% > >gain on moving a single character really isn't a big win. However 25+% > >very well might be. > > Maybe, maybe not. DMA will likely be slower when dealing with a small > number of characters since there is a significant amount of work to do > per DMA. I would guess that the fastest access would be to map the card's > RAM via the PCI space and access it directly via the CPU. Pardon my butting in; Brian, do you have any documentation on how the Cyclades card actually performs these memory accesses? In particular, does it just transfer single bytes, or does it only move in larger quantities? If the former, definitely stay with using the on-card memory, as that will be much more efficient. OTOH, if they are moving > 32 bits of data per DMA cycle you will start to pick up performance there. (Yes, I've worked with the PLX parts too, although my grounding with the 9060 is purely based on reading the datasheet.) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 15:25:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13177 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:25:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13164 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:25:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05362; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:25:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802112325.PAA05362@rah.star-gate.com> To: jra@colltech.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:37:15 CST." <199802111737.LAA09605@psasolar.psa.pencom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5359.887239515.1@rah> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:25:15 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't recollect having any problems compiling SKIP a little while ago under -current. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 15:57:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17688 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:57:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA14742; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:36:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-announce) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:56:59 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08974 for freebsd-announce-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:56:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08969 for freebsd-announce; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:56:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:56:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199802112256.OAA08969@hub.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-announce Subject: New JDK1.1.5 for FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A new release of the JDK for FreeBSD is released. Details are available at http://www.freebsd.org/java. New to this release: * Process.waitFor() bug fixed * Multicast should work now * Non-blocking pipes blocked in 2.2.2, and now are (again) non-blocking. JDB should now work on 2.2.2 again. Bugs: * The new release *requires* XFree86 to be installed, even if you don't plan on using the AWT. This is due to Motif licensing restrictions, and will be resolved in a future JDK release. * There is a socket bug lurking that appears to be affecting all of the FreeBSD releases, but only affect certain people. It appears to be related to the network load, and only shows up under loaded/lossy networks. * There still appear to be bugs in 2.2.2 w/regards to non-blocking pipes/sockets, which may be related to the above bug. We're working on it, but wanted to get this release out the door to developers since the previous version is no longer available on the ftp site due to hardware problems. Any other details, check out the WWW page, which will be updated as new releases and other important news is released. - The FreeBSD-Java team This is the moderated mailing list announce. The list contains announcements of new FreeBSD capabilities, important events and project milestones. See also the FreeBSD Web pages at http://www.freebsd.org To unsubscribe from announce, send a mail to majordomo@freebsd.org with the body unsubscribe announce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe announce" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 16:41:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23711 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:41:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA22674; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:33:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-announce) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:27:06 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08974 for freebsd-announce-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:56:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08969 for freebsd-announce; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:56:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:56:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199802112256.OAA08969@hub.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-announce Subject: New JDK1.1.5 for FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A new release of the JDK for FreeBSD is released. Details are available at http://www.freebsd.org/java. New to this release: * Process.waitFor() bug fixed * Multicast should work now * Non-blocking pipes blocked in 2.2.2, and now are (again) non-blocking. JDB should now work on 2.2.2 again. Bugs: * The new release *requires* XFree86 to be installed, even if you don't plan on using the AWT. This is due to Motif licensing restrictions, and will be resolved in a future JDK release. * There is a socket bug lurking that appears to be affecting all of the FreeBSD releases, but only affect certain people. It appears to be related to the network load, and only shows up under loaded/lossy networks. * There still appear to be bugs in 2.2.2 w/regards to non-blocking pipes/sockets, which may be related to the above bug. We're working on it, but wanted to get this release out the door to developers since the previous version is no longer available on the ftp site due to hardware problems. Any other details, check out the WWW page, which will be updated as new releases and other important news is released. - The FreeBSD-Java team This is the moderated mailing list announce. The list contains announcements of new FreeBSD capabilities, important events and project milestones. See also the FreeBSD Web pages at http://www.freebsd.org To unsubscribe from announce, send a mail to majordomo@freebsd.org with the body unsubscribe announce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe announce" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 16:53:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25283 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:53:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tornado.cisco.com (tornado.cisco.com [171.69.104.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25263 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:52:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (bmcgover-pc.cisco.com [171.69.104.147]) by tornado.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA07452; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:52:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06972; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:52:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Message-Id: <199802120052.TAA06972@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> To: Mike Smith cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:20:05 PST." <199802112320.PAA01611@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:52:01 -0500 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The UARTs they use on the board have a 64 byte buffer. By Cyclades estimates, about 32 bytes would be available about the time the firmware would be ready to move the data into whatever buffers it uses. And no, Mike, I don't mind you butting in. Thats why I threw this in the air, to try to get several opinions from several people, and try to hash out who was right, and why... I figured that after some debate, a clearer cut answer would come out. Again, I ask from the perspective that I'm trying to minimize HOST CPU usage for moving the data, and figured a RAM (buffer) to RAM (clist) copy on the motherboard would be cheaper/faster for the host than a RAM (buffer) to RAM (clist) copy over the PCI bus. I'd therefore also expect that the inverse would be true. But, from most of what I've heard, there should be little difference at a cost of extra PLX9060 programming (which looks easy on paper). -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 17:03:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27286 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:03:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27251 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:03:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node09.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.9]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id XAA02520; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:02:59 -0200 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980211230412.00941b10@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:05:15 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: RE: VDO Platforms Cc: freebsd@SBQ.Org.BR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Wed, 11 Feb 98 16:49:33 >From: Dixie Clow >Sender: Dixie Clow >Subject: RE: VDO Platforms >To: Capriotti > >Sorry. Our current version of VDOLive is not available on BSDI, only NT and Solaris. > >--- On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:53:46 -0300 Capriotti wrote: > >>Hello. >> >>I've heard of your products being availiable for the FreeBSD platform. >> >>I'd like to confirm this info, since I have a customer interested on >>on-demand video using internet-like structure. >> > >-----------------End of Original Message----------------- > >------------------------------------- >Name: Dixie Clow >VDOnet Corporation >tel: (408) 871-3541 >fax: (408) 871-3555 >E-mail: Dixie Clow >Date: 11-02-98 >Time: 4:49:33 PM >------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 17:14:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29113 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:14:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net ([139.146.210.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29059 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:13:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA20505; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:13:22 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199802120113.TAA20505@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig In-Reply-To: <199802112126.NAA24377@hub.freebsd.org> from Darren Reed at "Feb 12, 98 08:25:15 am" To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:13:21 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Wed Feb 11 00:51:24 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > In some mail from Jim Bryant, sie said: > > > > In reply: > > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote: > > > > > > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( > > > > It should write 4 Gig on one > > > > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail > > > > on near 1 Gig. > > > > > > 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 tape? > > > > good point! > > > > Type Length Capacity > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > DDS - 60M == 1.3G native > > DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression > > DDS-2 - 120M == 4.0G native, 8.0G using compression > > DDS-3 - 125M == 6.0G native, 12.0G using compression > > DDS3 is 12G native, 24G w/ compression. oops... i WAS unsure about that... neet though, i've got a couple i haven't even used yet on a couple of HP-9000/829-K420's... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 17:23:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00537 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:23:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00479 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:23:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-117.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.117]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA29832; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:23:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA08885; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:24:49 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802120024.SAA08885@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Mike Smith cc: David Kelly , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies? In-reply-to: Message from Mike Smith of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:50:01 PST." <199802111750.JAA00661@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:24:48 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > All one filesystem? Multiple systems? > > Multiple systems. That makes multiple tape drives a more viable solution. > > Others have suggested jukebox solutions but you might consider 5 or 10 > > (or 2 or 3) lower cost (than DLT or AIT) Exabyte 8505's which can put an > > honest 4.8G (or more with compression) on a cheap tape. > > I had considered this. How would this compare cost-wise with an > EXB8505-based changer? I don't know the price of an Exabyte changer right now, but 8505's are somewhere between $1000 and $1500 new. There is an 8700 with similar specs, external only, its top loading, going for about $800 new. Putting a tape drive on each system might make your users happy, don't know what the systems are normally doing. Loading a tape in each may be quite a hassle if all the systems are not close by. > I appreciate this. The big downside with multiple drives is feeding > the rotten things, and the slightly more grubby software involved. Grubby software? Schedule dump with cron. Don't try to bite off more than a tape per night per tape drive. If somebody forgets to put a tape in the drive then you'll be emailed. Heck, without the right options you'll get emailed anyhow. > > The CD-R people are pushing their hardware for backups too. In volume a > > 600MB CD-R disk is approaching $1. Don't think that's a viable solution > > for you. > > Not unless there's a changer that behaves enough like a tape drive, no. Don't think so for FreeBSD but the Mac and PC backup people are pushing it by supporting it in backup programs such as Retrospect. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 17:26:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01432 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:26:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01163 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:26:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199802120126.RAA01163@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA120796694; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:24:54 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:24:54 +1100 (EDT) Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "sbabkin@dcn.att.com" at Feb 11, 98 03:53:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from sbabkin@dcn.att.com, sie said: > > > > ---------- > > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote: > > > > > > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( > > > > It should write 4 Gig on one > > > > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail > > > > on near 1 Gig. > > > > > > 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 > > tape? > > > > good point! > > > > Type Length Capacity > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > DDS - 60M == 1.3G native > > DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression > > > I believe that 90M DDS-2 must be 2.0G native (and HP specified it > in documentation on its DDS-2 drives) while 90M DDS is 1.3G native. > I had opportunity to discover it as failed backup after ICL > changed by warranty a failed DDS-2 drive to DDS drive. No, DDS does give 2.0G for 90m tapes, however, not all DDS drives support 90m tapes. DDS-2 drives should give 1.3G 60m, 2.0G 90m and 4.0G 120m (without compression). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 19:00:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17064 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:00:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17029 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:00:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA22801; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:53:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma022797; Wed Feb 11 18:53:23 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA25494; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:53:23 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802120253.SAA25494@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-Reply-To: <199802111737.LAA09605@psasolar.psa.pencom.com> from "jra@colltech.com" at "Feb 11, 98 11:37:15 am" To: jra@colltech.com Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:53:22 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG jra@colltech.com writes: > > I thought SKIP could also do tunneling plus it has the added feature > > of crypto... > > Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under > -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the > cracks. Did you try the port? security/skip? It should compile. If not, send me the output of "make". Thanks, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 20:06:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25311 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25299 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:06:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA08573; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:06:00 -0800 (PST) To: Tim Vanderhoek cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:18:01 EST." Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:06:00 -0800 Message-ID: <8570.887256360@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > This, unfortunately, leaves us without a place to stage "development" > > bits and I therefore would like to call for one or two volunteer > > maintainers who'd be willing to maintain: > > > > ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ > > The last will get a little-to-significantly easier when we stop > telling people to upload new ports there... Where should they upload them then? ;-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 20:51:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00773 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:51:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp7268.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.236]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00731 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:50:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA00685; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:49:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:49:05 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Tim Vanderhoek , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP In-Reply-To: <8570.887256360@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ > > > > The last will get a little-to-significantly easier when we stop > > telling people to upload new ports there... > > Where should they upload them then? ;-) They should put them in the pr so that 1) there is a permanent record, 2) incoming doesn't get over-cluttered, 3) they're easy to access and the committer doesn't have to worry about making sure some silly 2k file in incoming/ is removed. Most ports are pretty small. -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 22:21:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11373 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:21:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11352 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:21:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17876; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:03:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd017861; Wed Feb 11 23:03:44 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA03786; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:03:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802120603.XAA03786@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP To: ac199@hwcn.org Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 06:03:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hoek@hwcn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Feb 11, 98 11:49:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > The last will get a little-to-significantly easier when we stop > > > telling people to upload new ports there... > > > > Where should they upload them then? ;-) > > They should put them in the pr so that 1) there is a permanent > record, 2) incoming doesn't get over-cluttered, 3) they're easy > to access and the committer doesn't have to worry about making > sure some silly 2k file in incoming/ is removed. > > Most ports are pretty small. What about ports that aren't small? Whistle has acapd and ldap both working now. Each required significant fixes to the user space pthreads. The acapd required modifications to the SGI/HP/MOSCOW-SPARC-COMPUTING STL to support non-static mutex initializers. The threads modifications for per threads exception stack registration require gcc 2.8.0 to allow STL exception handling work per thread; otherwise you must #ifdef the code that makes them work out (and then acapd will not work on FreeBSD). The egcs (Cygnus) compiler is kind of broken in the way the do thread exception stacks: they require you to choose at the time you create the compiler, instead of at runtime. The ldap (which I worked on, along with the minor Pthreads draft 4 support in STL, and a tiny amount on the ioctl and _thread_sys_* error returns in pthreads) requires significant patches. In effect, it requires *all* the patches from Critical Angle, Inc., except the SSL stuff which is non-exportable, and then patches over and above that because of the Pthreads draft 4 create_thread argument 2 being a pointer to an attr pointer instead of an attr pointer, as in the final draft. And additional changes because of some invalid assumptions about FD_SET/FD_ZERO. These are *not* 1-2k patches. The stuff Jeremey did on making signal handling (mostly) work in pthreads, along, is a rather large diff (though Julian has been committing the changes to pthreads as fast as they are made, so they wouldn't need rolled in). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 22:42:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14441 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:42:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mph124.rh.psu.edu (mph@MPH124.rh.psu.edu [128.118.126.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14418 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:42:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@mph124.rh.psu.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by mph124.rh.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26072; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:42:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980212014206.14255@mph124.rh.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:42:06 -0500 From: Matthew Hunt To: ac199@hwcn.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Tim Vanderhoek , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP References: <8570.887256360@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Tim Vanderhoek on Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 11:49:05PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 11:49:05PM -0500, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > They should put them in the pr [...] I agree in the case of small ports, and having said that will veer off on a tangent. To make it easier to use shar'd/uuencoded files in PR's, could something be done to remove the leading whitespace on each line of PR's on the freebsd-bugs mailing list? It would be easier if we could pipe the mail through a decoder, without having to use sed/vi/perl/whatever to eliminate the leading space first. -- Matthew Hunt * Think locally, act globally. http://mph124.rh.psu.edu/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 23:18:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17985 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:18:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oskar.nanoteq.co.za (oskar.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.91.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17969 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:18:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rbezuide@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Received: (from rbezuide@localhost) by oskar.nanoteq.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.5) id JAA26245 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:17:18 +0200 (SAT) From: Reinier Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199802120717.JAA26245@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Subject: Problem with de driver ? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:16:03 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi ... I know about the autosense problem with the driver, but seems to be something totally different. I have the following setup: PII/266----------P166---------PII/266 The two PII's have Intel ether express cards while the P166 has two SMC 9332BDT cards. I am using ttcp to generate data from the one PII to the other. With the first, second or third try transferring the data the de0 card on the P166 just goes dead. I can't ping it and there is nothing in the logs or on the console. The de1 card is still working fine. I have replaced the P166 with another P166 and the same thing happens, again de0. I have replaced de0 with another SMC 9332BDT and the same thing happens. It doesn't seem to be hardware related. When I do a ifconfig de0 down and the up again, the card functions again till the next ttcp transfers. It doesn't matter in which direction I do the transfer, the de0 dies everytime. Any ideas ? Reinier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 23:20:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18295 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:20:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA18253 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:20:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from semen@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from localhost (semen@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA28298; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:21:18 +0600 (NS) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:21:17 +0600 (NS) From: Ustimenko Semen To: John Fieber cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, John Fieber wrote: > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote: > > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( > > It should write 4 Gig on one > > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail > > on near 1 Gig. > > 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 tape? > > -john > 4G without compression. it was DDS-2 drive and Cassete. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 02:28:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA08588 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 02:28:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08564 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 02:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.12]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24681; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:23:09 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.7/8.8.8) id LAA27839; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:23:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980212112305.48504@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:23:05 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD mailing list search by message-id Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/test/mid.html is a search interface for the FreeBSD mailinglists. It support only the mail header keywords 'message-id' (e.g. <19980210222122030.AAA206@mail-ftp.nordicdms.com>) and the and the keyword 'in-reply-to' (the answer(s) to a mail, by message id). Searching with in-reply-to currently does not works in all cases. ;-/ The message-id database is updated hourly. -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 03:05:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA12336 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 03:05:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA12327 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 03:05:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from bonsai.hiwaay.net (tnt1-231.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.231]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id FAA00069; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:05:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34E2D7C6.59E2B600@hiwaay.net> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:06:46 -0600 From: Steve Price X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ac199@hwcn.org CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > > They should put them in the pr so that 1) there is a permanent > record, 2) incoming doesn't get over-cluttered, 3) they're easy > to access and the committer doesn't have to worry about making > sure some silly 2k file in incoming/ is removed. Yes, putting them in a PR is TRT, but they should be uuencoded tarballs. All to many times I have had to spend extra time sorting out snarf-and-barf errors. I would go so far as to say all but the most trivial of patches should be done this way. This brings up another point, whether diffs should be context or unified. I personally prefer unified diffs but don't want to start any flame wars. The place that documents how to store the diffs/ portballs in a PR should also specify (with zero exceptions) diffs in one format or the other. IMHO, of course. Steve > Most ports are pretty small. > > -- > tIM...HOEk > OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names > hoping that the resultant code will run faster. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 03:42:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14683 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 03:42:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14677 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 03:42:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from koshy@india.hp.com) Received: from postbox.india.hp.com (postbox.india.hp.com [15.10.45.1]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id DAA19040 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 03:41:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802121141.DAA19040@palrel1.hp.com> Received: from localhost by postbox.india.hp.com with ESMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA011793736; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:12:16 +0530 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: General policy on trademark violations Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:12:16 +0530 From: A Joseph Koshy Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Its sad to see that yet another part of the FreeBSD source tree is to be surgically extracted on account of `trademark violations' :(. Q1: How far is FreeBSD willing to go in the direction of ripping out portions of its source base? Is it willing to remove files in non-games directories? Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that "violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia? Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source base to satisfy litigants from other countries? Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package from anywhere else in the world? I think some of these questions have been asked before, but I don't recall seeing answers. Thanks, Koshy My Personal Opinions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 04:24:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA19518 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 04:24:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA19510 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 04:24:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id NAA00859; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:24:04 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:24:02 +0100 (MET) To: Steve Price Cc: ac199@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP References: <34E2D7C6.59E2B600@hiwaay.net> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 12 Feb 1998 13:23:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: Steve Price's message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:06:46 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Price writes: > This brings up another point, whether diffs should be context or > unified. I personally prefer unified diffs but don't want to start > any flame wars. AOL. Unified diffs are shorter and more human-readable. IMHO, of course :) -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 05:13:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24165 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:13:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ppp6553.on.bellglobal.com (ppp6553.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24152 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:13:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by ppp6553.on.bellglobal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA00229; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:11:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: ppp6553.on.bellglobal.com: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:11:28 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Terry Lambert cc: ac199@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hoek@hwcn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP In-Reply-To: <199802120603.XAA03786@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Most ports are pretty small. > > What about ports that aren't small? Let them be uploaded to incoming/. -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 05:31:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27080 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:31:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA27036 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:31:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199802121329.IAA26862@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:32:05 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: David Kelly cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies? In-Reply-To: <199802120024.SAA08885@nospam.hiwaay.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, David Kelly wrote: > > I had considered this. How would this compare cost-wise with an > > EXB8505-based changer? > > I don't know the price of an Exabyte changer right now, but 8505's are > somewhere between $1000 and $1500 new. There is an 8700 with similar > specs, external only, its top loading, going for about $800 new. 4mm drives are cheaper and faster, and I have had better reliability with the media. -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 06:54:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05690 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 06:54:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratia.it.hq.nasa.gov (gratia.it.hq.nasa.gov [131.182.119.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05677 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 06:54:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cshenton@gratia.it.hq.nasa.gov) Received: from wirehead.it.hq.nasa.gov (WireHead.it.hq.nasa.gov [131.182.119.88]) by gratia.it.hq.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07584; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:47:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from cshenton@localhost) by wirehead.it.hq.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07953; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:53:59 -0500 (EST) To: Archie Cobbs Cc: jra@colltech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably References: <199802120253.SAA25494@bubba.whistle.com> From: Chris Shenton Date: 12 Feb 1998 09:53:58 -0500 In-Reply-To: Archie Cobbs's message of Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:53:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Archie Cobbs writes: > Did you try the port? security/skip? It should compile. If not, send > me the output of "make". I just built it yesterday from /usr/ports/security/skip on FreeBSD-2.2.5-STABLE. Building it now on SunOS to test interoperability. Psyche... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 07:58:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13790 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:58:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA13776 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:58:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA08392; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:58:11 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:58:11 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: Steve Price Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP In-Reply-To: <34E2D7C6.59E2B600@hiwaay.net> Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > [Steve says about ports] >Yes, putting them in a PR is TRT, but they should be uuencoded >tarballs. All to many times I have had to spend extra time sorting >out snarf-and-barf errors. I would go so far as to say all but the >most trivial of patches should be done this way. I thought people were starting to lean towards shar archives for this sort of thing. I certainly dig shar archives, but if the people that actually have to do the work prefer otherwise, I'd like to know (as one of those folks who occasionally submit port stuff). I guess the same applies for patches...I didn't know that was even an issue. Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 08:20:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA17607 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:20:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from psasolar.psa.pencom.com (psasolar.colltech.com [208.229.236.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17488 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:20:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jra@colltech.com) From: jra@colltech.com Received: (from jra@localhost) by psasolar.psa.pencom.com (VER/What/1.0) id JAA23747 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:58:18 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802121558.JAA23747@psasolar.psa.pencom.com> Subject: Summary: SKIP for FreeBSD (was Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably) In-Reply-To: From jra at "Feb 11, 98 11:37:15 am" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:58:18 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under > -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the > cracks. Well, I usually don't reply to my own posts, but since I did a bonehead move, I felt I should. TIme to go back to newbie school. The answer is: look in the ports collection, under security. ja. -- Joe Ammond jra@colltech.com Yn y dechreuad yr oedd y Gair; yr oedd y Gair gyda Duw, a Duw oedd y Gair. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 08:51:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21851 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:51:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dog.farm.org (gw-hssi-2.farm.org [209.66.103.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21830 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:50:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dog.farm.org!dk) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id IAA08911; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:43:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:43:55 -0800 (PST) From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199802121643.IAA08911@dog.farm.org> To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: byte ordering and talk? Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Organization: FARM Computing Association Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199802071416.PAA04586@ocean.campus.luth.se> you wrote: [...] > > No, the byte order is fixed in the specification (ntohs, nothl anyone). > > the problem that you are refferning to is either of 2 problems: > > > > 1: slightly different struct sockaddr_in structres (some have a 'lenght' > > field (AIX), others do not (FreeBSD) > > > > 2: ntalk/talk there are 2 differnt talk protocols, everyone uses one > > (can't remember), sun uses the other. (check /etc/inetd.conf and > > /etc/services, they bind to different ports.) > Everyone uses ntalk, except for SUN. > So go install ntalk on the SUN machines, and you'll be fine. one consequence of talk brokenness in Solaris is that you cannot talk from Solaris/sparc to Solaris/x86. (the error message is: [Unable to connect with initiator : Address family not supported by protocol fam ily (124)] So, it is a vendor problem not worth to fix in FreeBSD IMHO.... -- To steal from one person is theft. To steal from many is taxation. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 09:06:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24341 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:06:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itsdsv1.enc.edu (fw1.enc.edu [207.95.42.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24330 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owensc@enc.edu) Received: from itsdsv2.enc.edu (itsdsv2.enc.edu [10.1.1.9]) by itsdsv1.enc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01298 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:03:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:03:36 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Owens To: hackers list FreeBSD Subject: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I've been researching CMU's Coda filesystem (see http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/index.html) with hopes of doing an implementation. This distributed filesystem has some very interesting properties that should eventually allow the creation of large, fault-tolerant filespace capable of supporting a vast number of clients. (ie. AFS, but better in many ways) I just had a nice chat with Peter Braam, CMU faculty and Coda development leader, in which he stated the following: * The FreeBSD port is done (I'm not sure if it's actually downloadable yet) * Development, particularly in the area of scalability, is focused on Linux. Why? His stated reasons: * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?) * Several other Linux-based research groups are hacking on Coda, and RedHat is showing interest * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on these extensions: http://telemann.coda.cs.cmu.edu/maillists/linux-coda/0225.html Peter was very interested in seeing FreeBSD development continue, but regretted that he had no programmers to spare on creating similar FreeBSD kernel extensions. Any reactions to this? I personally think that Coda could be the greatest thing since sliced bread... we certainly don't want FreeBSD to miss out. Does the idea of these kernel extensions making their way into the FreeBSD kernel rub anyone the wrong way? Is there a better way to go? I know we have a penchant for doing things the "right" way. :-) The Coda implementation that I'd like to do would serve a 60 Gig filespace (eventually two or three times larger) to upwards to 1500 clients (actually SMB, AFS, and HTTP clients which would connect to N Coda "clients"). This is far larger than anything anyone has done with Coda to date, and certainly got Peter's attention. Unfortunately, he thinks that he's about a year away from being able to reliably work with filespaces of this magnitude. So, I'm stuck with a NFS/rdist mess for now (my implementation needs to be live in summer '98). I'll stop rambling now... ;-) --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles N. Owens Email: owensc@enc.edu http://www.enc.edu/~owensc Network & Systems Administrator Information Technology Services "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's Eastern Nazarene College best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 09:27:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27138 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:27:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.31.78.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27059 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:27:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA09844; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:26:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:26:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: jra@colltech.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-Reply-To: <199802111737.LAA09605@psasolar.psa.pencom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 jra@colltech.com wrote: > Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under > -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the > cracks. /usr/ports/security/skip works find for me. /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 09:40:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28722 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:40:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nyef.res.cmu.edu (NYEF.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.88.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA28618 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:39:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from inf@nyef.res.cmu.edu) Received: (qmail 5182 invoked by uid 1000); 12 Feb 1998 17:39:55 -0000 Message-ID: <19980212123955.08290@nyef.res.cmu.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:39:55 -0500 From: Marca Registrada To: hackers list FreeBSD Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux Mail-Followup-To: hackers list FreeBSD References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Charles Owens on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:03:36PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm also extremely interested in using Coda on FreeBSD, and have offered as much help as I can to Peter Braam, but CMU keeps their students fairly busy ;), so the amount of actual codework I can put forth is rather limited. I'm still waiting for the release of the FreeBSD code so I can least get started playing with it. The current Coda release that I know of for FreeBSD is supposed to be for -stable, so my first project may be to port it to -current (although I've heard this may be difficult), and it would be easier for me to make light contributions from time to time to do whatever is necessary when the -stable-patched are unworkable for -current. Quoting Charles Owens (owensc@enc.edu): > * Development, particularly in the area of scalability, is focused on > Linux. Why? His stated reasons: > > * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs > (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is > it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?) Would anyone think that softupdate's may fix this? I havn't keep close enough track of the discussion to know when softupdates may ever come around, though. > * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that > will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is > seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with > reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on > these extensions: From the latest I heard on the Coda lists, Linus is very against this becuase he feels it ruins the consistency of the FS interface. This of course can change at any moment. The current proposal is to make an filesystem where inodes can be accessed directly as files.. ie: fopen("/mnt/__inode_#12345#","r"); or something similar looking to that. It actually doesn't sound like a monster to implement at all. And as a separate filesystem solves many of the fsck problems Coda currently has. I'm totally with you on wanting to get Coda going strong on FreeBSD, and will lend all the free coding time I have. As an aside, you also mentioned AFS. Has that been progressign at all on the FreeBSD front? I havn't heard anything but light rustle about AFS. -- - All we hear is internet gaagaa, internet googoo, internet gaagaa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 09:48:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29919 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:48:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mph124.rh.psu.edu (mph@MPH124.rh.psu.edu [128.118.126.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29868 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:47:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@mph124.rh.psu.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by mph124.rh.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15725; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:47:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980212124732.01612@mph124.rh.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:47:32 -0500 From: Matthew Hunt To: Bill Fenner Cc: ac199@hwcn.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Tim Vanderhoek , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP References: <19980212014206.14255@mph124.rh.psu.edu> <98Feb12.081042pst.177476@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <98Feb12.081042pst.177476@crevenia.parc.xerox.com>; from Bill Fenner on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 08:10:37AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 08:10:37AM -0800, Bill Fenner wrote: > Isn't the whitespace only on PR followups? I thought the original > came through un-indented. You are correct, of course. Using patches (etc.) in followups requires stripping spaces; using them in the original PR does not. Excuse: I was just going to bed when I wrote that. :-) -- Matthew Hunt * Think locally, act globally. http://mph124.rh.psu.edu/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 09:50:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00582 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:50:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00494 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:49:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12228; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:49:38 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199802121749.PAA12228@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux In-Reply-To: <19980212123955.08290@nyef.res.cmu.edu> from Marca Registrada at "Feb 12, 98 12:39:55 pm" To: inf@nyef.res.cmu.edu (Marca Registrada) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:49:37 -0200 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Marca Registrada) // > * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs // > (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is // > it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?) // // Would anyone think that softupdate's may fix this? I havn't keep close // enough track of the discussion to know when softupdates may ever come // around, though. Turn of async updates in ext2fs, and see if it's still faster. :) Or, leave it on, and wait til the next system crash. // > * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that // > will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is // > seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with // > reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on // > these extensions: // // From the latest I heard on the Coda lists, Linus is very against this // becuase he feels it ruins the consistency of the FS interface. This of // course can change at any moment. The current proposal is to make an // filesystem where inodes can be accessed directly as files.. ie: // // fopen("/mnt/__inode_#12345#","r"); // or something similar looking to that. It actually doesn't sound like a // monster to implement at all. And as a separate filesystem solves many of // the fsck problems Coda currently has. This breaks the directory hierarchy tree rights. One file might have rights for everybody, but its directory denies access. Maybe the inodefs is useful if only root or operator have access to it. Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:01:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01976 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:01:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01961 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:00:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18031; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:59:34 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA27939; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:59:33 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980212185933.22479@follo.net> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:59:33 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Charles Owens , hackers list FreeBSD Cc: braam@cs.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Charles Owens on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:03:36PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:03:36PM -0500, Charles Owens wrote: > * Development, particularly in the area of scalability, is focused on > Linux. Why? His stated reasons: > > * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs > (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is > it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?) ext2fs support is in 2.2.6, methinks. At least it is in LINT for RELENG_2_2 (from RELENG_2_2_0_RELEASE and up, actually). And ext2fs is AFAIK only faster due to the default blocksize and the fact that they violate a patented Novell technology. (Terry can say more on this; they either violate DOW-patents or run unsafe; I forget which...) > * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that > will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is > seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with > reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on > these extensions: > > http://telemann.coda.cs.cmu.edu/maillists/linux-coda/0225.html > > Peter was very interested in seeing FreeBSD development continue, but > regretted that he had no programmers to spare on creating similar FreeBSD > kernel extensions. Any reactions to this? I personally think that Coda > could be the greatest thing since sliced bread... we certainly don't want > FreeBSD to miss out. Does the idea of these kernel extensions making > their way into the FreeBSD kernel rub anyone the wrong way? Is there a > better way to go? I know we have a penchant for doing things the > "right" way. :-) It would take about 15 minutes to create this functionality, and it has been discussed before. It has been decided against on the basis of security. This break chroot() completely, and it break the protection you presently have when -rwxr-x--- src/ -rwxr-xr-x src/somefile - somefile will be available to an attacker. If this is what it takes to get Coda, I for one won't use it, but I can probably create and commit a kernel option that give the access methods so that others can. It will not be part of FreeBSD in the default configuration, at least not if I have any say in the matter. (Sorry to be so brutal, but it really kill a lot of security assumptions.) Eivind To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:27:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06325 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:27:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06286 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:27:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25494; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:26:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:26:48 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: Marca Registrada cc: hackers list FreeBSD Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux In-Reply-To: <19980212123955.08290@nyef.res.cmu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Marca Registrada wrote: > > I'm also extremely interested in using Coda on FreeBSD, and have offered > as much help as I can to Peter Braam, but CMU keeps their students fairly > busy ;), so the amount of actual codework I can put forth is rather > limited. I'm still waiting for the release of the FreeBSD code so I can > least get started playing with it. > The current Coda release that I know of for FreeBSD is supposed to be for > -stable, so my first project may be to port it to -current (although I've > heard this may be difficult), and it would be easier for me to make light > contributions from time to time to do whatever is necessary when the > -stable-patched are unworkable for -current. gneat :) > > > Quoting Charles Owens (owensc@enc.edu): > > * Development, particularly in the area of scalability, is focused on > > Linux. Why? His stated reasons: > > > > * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs > > (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is > > it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?) turn on async mounting of FFS in FBSD an recompare.... (ext2fs is async by default). > > * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that > > will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is > > seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with > > reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on > > these extensions: > > From the latest I heard on the Coda lists, Linus is very against this > becuase he feels it ruins the consistency of the FS interface. This of > course can change at any moment. The current proposal is to make an > filesystem where inodes can be accessed directly as files.. ie: This is the 'old' way things work, before SUN devloped the vnode idea. That idea also has made a LFS/JFS based filesystem damn=ed near impossible to implement (as a friend painfully discovered.) Anyway, the AFS work is progressing ( unfortunately slowly because of my recent workload), I am hoping to have more time to work on this soon. -- David Cross UNIX Systems Administrator GE Corporate R&D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:29:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06929 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:29:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.jmrodgers.com ([205.247.224.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06841 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:29:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: from max.jmrodgers.com (max.jmrodgers.com [205.247.224.209]) by mail.jmrodgers.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA12588 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:34:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:23:42 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD37B9.6FDEED00.meuston@jmrodgers.com> From: Max Euston To: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Modifications to more(1) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:23:40 -0500 Organization: J.M. Rodgers Co., Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings all, This is my first posting (although I have been lurking for a while). I am going to fix the following problems with more(1) as my entry dues for asking questions 8-) 1) The h)elp command displays help, but does not wait before redrawing the screen (unless you use the -e option). 2) The -# option does not work (it is documented by man in the synopsis, but not in the body - it is in the usage message). The code has the comment: /* * kludge: more was originally designed to take * a number after a dash. */ this leads me to believe that this option is out-of-date (also it does not follow the standard). My question is: should I fix the -# option or remove it (my vote is to remove it - see below). 3) Use the LINES= environment variable (ala vi(1)) to set the screen height (the Win95 telnet allows you to resize the screen, but I had to 'tic -I' and reset TERM= for any alterations in screen size (yuck!)). I checked the PR database and found no similar comments (I will generate a PR when I have the time to do the fix). Any comments... Max ----- Max Euston |(this space for rent until I have Sysadm, Programmer, etc... | time to make a fancy signature). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:30:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07230 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:30:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (firewall-user@alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA07140 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:29:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <54870(2)>; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:12:59 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177476>; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:10:42 -0800 To: Matthew Hunt cc: ac199@hwcn.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Tim Vanderhoek , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 98 22:42:06 PST." <19980212014206.14255@mph124.rh.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:10:37 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <98Feb12.081042pst.177476@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Hunt wrote: >To make it easier to use shar'd/uuencoded files in PR's, could >something be done to remove the leading whitespace on each line >of PR's on the freebsd-bugs mailing list? Isn't the whitespace only on PR followups? I thought the original came through un-indented. Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:39:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08532 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:39:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08495; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:39:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA28987; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:39:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:39:09 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Charles Owens cc: hackers list FreeBSD , freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Other kernel extensions we have been looking at include PAG support in the kernel -- please see recent posts on freebsd-afs for some initial discussion of this. I, also, have been meeting with Peter :). We had a fairly extensive discussion of some authentication features yesterday -- I have not looked at the inode code and as such I have not looked into possible security problems. As I understand it, the inode behavior is for performance reasons only, and as such there are presumably alternatives. I'm leaving for the airport in an our or so, but have a meeting scheduled with Peter for Wednesday of next week to discuss security concerns in various areas, including kernel code, kerberos support, and inter-server communications. My kerberos implementation is essentially complete; addressing PAG-like issues was the concentration for our last meeting. Our long-term goal is to work with various communities (such as FreeBSD, Linux) to come up with a generalized authentication extension available to distributed file systems (such as AFS, CFS) for associating tokens or priveledges with a set of processes, not just with a UID. Those of you familiar with AFS will know that if you have two incoming telnets, one can have rights to the file system while the other does not, depending on whether you have klog'd or not. There are numerous reasons for having such a service -- for example, it would be nice if daemons running as root did not have access to the same file system as a root shell elsewhere, etc. This might have uses in other areas also -- for example, it might interact with management of keys for other services, such as IPsec, where the kernel knows what authentication group each process is associated with, and provides keys as appropriate. It seems like freebsd-afs might be a better location for this discussion, however -- at least until we figure out what the requirements are? Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:51:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09923 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09912 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:51:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04730; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:51:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004696; Thu Feb 12 11:51:03 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA15363; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:50:56 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802121850.LAA15363@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations To: koshy@india.hp.com (A Joseph Koshy) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:50:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802121141.DAA19040@palrel1.hp.com> from "A Joseph Koshy" at Feb 12, 98 05:12:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Its sad to see that yet another part of the FreeBSD source tree is to be > surgically extracted on account of `trademark violations' :(. ??????????????????????? What part of the tree is to be damaged? This is the first I've heard of it happening again since some idiot decided removing tetris and boggle was easier than fixing the makefiles and file names like they should have... making it a one line change and a rename to keep any trademark owner happy. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:51:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09984 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:51:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nyef.res.cmu.edu (NYEF.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.88.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09911 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:51:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from inf@nyef.res.cmu.edu) Received: (qmail 5303 invoked by uid 1000); 12 Feb 1998 18:51:26 -0000 Message-ID: <19980212135126.21661@nyef.res.cmu.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:51:26 -0500 From: Marca Registrada To: hackers list FreeBSD Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux Mail-Followup-To: hackers list FreeBSD References: <19980212185933.22479@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <19980212185933.22479@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 06:59:33PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Quoting Eivind Eklund (eivind@yes.no): > It would take about 15 minutes to create this functionality, and it > has been discussed before. It has been decided against on the basis > of security. This break chroot() completely, and it break the > protection you presently have when > [...] > > If this is what it takes to get Coda, I for one won't use it, but I > can probably create and commit a kernel option that give the access > methods so that others can. > an inodefs is only necessary for a coda server, and only for the partition on which the distributed files are kept. I would say it shoudl be made a totally separate fs, accessible via fopen() calls (I'm hoping Linux-Coda does the same), and of course, the partition containing these files shoudl be root-accessible only, and as there is no directory strucutre on such a partition, only unbound inodes, standard unix tools, such as ls, vi, will have no usability on such a partition, anyway. In short, it's not that a Coda server needs to access files on the 'standard' filesystem via, inodes, but keeps track of it's internal files via inodes, and keeps its own internal directory structure, so that namei only gets in the way. I should find out if there is a final proposal for how this should look to the caller. -- - All we hear is internet gaagaa, internet googoo, internet gaagaa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:07:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12086 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:07:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12071 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:06:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11211; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:06:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: jra@colltech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 jra@colltech.com wrote: > > Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under > > -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the > > cracks. > > /usr/ports/security/skip works find for me. It almost did for me too, but doesn't seem to work on any kernal compiled with firewalling. Has anyone else seen this behavior, or have I just tweeked the poor thing all by myself? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:15:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13631 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:15:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (firewall-user@alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA13607 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:15:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <54870(5)>; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:04:46 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177476>; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:54:42 -0800 To: Matthew Hunt cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 98 09:47:32 PST." <19980212124732.01612@mph124.rh.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:54:27 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <98Feb12.105442pst.177476@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually, patch is smart enough to strip off leading spaces. uudecode and unshar aren't, though. Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:42:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16360 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:42:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from camel7.mindspring.com (camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16171 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:41:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kpneal@pobox.com) Received: from kpneal.users.mindspring.com (user-38ld8pl.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.163.53]) by camel7.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA24137; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:40:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980212194051.00a60ee0@mail.mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mail.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:40:51 -0500 To: Marca Registrada From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux Cc: hackers list FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:39 PM 2/12/98 -0500, Marca Registrada wrote: > From the latest I heard on the Coda lists, Linus is very against this >becuase he feels it ruins the consistency of the FS interface. This of >course can change at any moment. The current proposal is to make an >filesystem where inodes can be accessed directly as files.. ie: > >fopen("/mnt/__inode_#12345#","r"); > or something similar looking to that. It actually doesn't sound like a >monster to implement at all. And as a separate filesystem solves many of >the fsck problems Coda currently has. Sorry, I'm out of touch. Why wouldn't Coda work in FreeBSD as a fs layer sitting above ffs (or whatever)? Why must Coda have access to the raw inodes? And what fsck problems does Coda currently have? Has this even been discussed anywhere? -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Junior, Comp. Sci. - House of Retrocomputing XCOMM mailto:kpneal@pobox.com - http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ XCOMM kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu Spoken by Keir Finlow-Bates: XCOMM "Good grief, I've just noticed I've typed in a rant. Sorry chaps!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:47:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17410 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:47:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rumor.research.att.com (rumor.research.att.com [192.20.225.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA17387 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:46:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ji@research.att.com) Received: from research.att.com ([135.207.30.100]) by rumor; Thu Feb 12 14:42:27 EST 1998 Received: from amontillado.research.att.com ([135.207.24.32]) by research-clone; Thu Feb 12 14:44:54 EST 1998 Received: from bual.research.att.com (bual.research.att.com [135.207.24.19]) by amontillado.research.att.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27661 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:44:53 -0500 (EST) From: John Ioannidis Received: (from ji@localhost) by bual.research.att.com (8.7.5/8.7) id OAA05915 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:44:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:44:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802121944.OAA05915@bual.research.att.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don't bother with SKIP; only Sun is interested in it. The IETF has a suite of IP-layer security protocols (under the general name "IPSEC"), for which there are multiple implementations, some of them free. For instance, there is Angelos Keromytis OpenBSD implementation (based on a previous implementations by myself for BSDI and another by myself for linux (yuck!)); I also think there is a FreeBSD implementation of IPSEC out of NRL, but I may be mistaken. In any case, using a security protocol just for the tunneling is an overkill. If all you want to do is tunnel IP packets inside other IP packets, the code to do that should take about a day to write. If no code is available, and there is interest, I may hack something up over the weekend. Cisco has their own tunneling protocol (I forget exactly what TLA they use to name it), which I believe is just IP-in-IP (same as protocol 4) but I may be mistaken. If someone can point me to documentation, I'll use it! /ji To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:48:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17865 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:48:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17671 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:47:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02923; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:47:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd002863; Thu Feb 12 12:47:35 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA19676; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:47:35 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802121947.MAA19676@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux To: inf@nyef.res.cmu.edu (Marca Registrada) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:47:34 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980212123955.08290@nyef.res.cmu.edu> from "Marca Registrada" at Feb 12, 98 12:39:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG YES! REAL DEVELOPEMENT AT LAST! > The current Coda release that I know of for FreeBSD is supposed to be for > -stable, so my first project may be to port it to -current (although I've > heard this may be difficult), and it would be easier for me to make light > contributions from time to time to do whatever is necessary when the > -stable-patched are unworkable for -current. This may be difficult. I will provide advice and information on Poul-Henning Kamp's interface changes, and other issues, as necessary (the changes somewhat broke Kirk McKusick's intended design, where the UFS code was to provide directory facilities, and the FFS code was to provide a linear (but not necessarily externalized) flat namespace). The main differences will be in VOP's and locking, and are pretty trivial (ie: 4.4-Lite2 didn't do much, and neither has anyone since, barring minor cleanups). > > * Development, particularly in the area of scalability, is focused on > > Linux. Why? His stated reasons: > > > > * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs > > (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is > > it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?) > > Would anyone think that softupdate's may fix this? I havn't keep close > enough track of the discussion to know when softupdates may ever come > around, though. Linux's ext2fs is apparently faster because it is, by default, mounted async. As a real FS hacker, he should be aware that an fsck can only undo one state transition. After ext2fs crashes, the FS after the fsck is in *a* consistent state, but not *the* consistent state it would have been had the crash not taken place. For each async call that takes place, you have another potential state. In general: For N outstanding operations, there are 2^(N-1) possible ground states following a one state change by fsck. This means for 11 outstanding operations, you have less than a 1 in 1000 chance of fsck guessing the right one. Classic implementations have guaranteed ordering using synchronus writes of metadata. This is the FFS default mechanism. Other approaches to ordering guarantees are: o Log structuring (fragmentation is high) o Journalling (commits are slow and fragmentation is high) o Delayed Ordered Writes ("Banker's Algorithm" for graph reduction sacrifices speed for overcautious safety; also patent-pending by USL, so not usable) o Soft Updates (within 5% of async, faster for some things, and with all the safety of synchronus writes). So the answers are, in order: A) There's nothing to fix; ext2fs is being used with a false sense of safety. B) Yes. Soft Updates in FreeBSD address the speed issue. > > * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that > > will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is > > seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with > > reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on > > these extensions: > > From the latest I heard on the Coda lists, Linus is very against this > becuase he feels it ruins the consistency of the FS interface. It doesn't, really. What it *does* do is blow out the inheritance security model based on directory permissions. The one way to save it from this is to change the structure of hard links on disk, and then keep parent pointers in all inodes. Then you traverse to root creating a path vector, and then traverse down the vector applying permissions. FreeBSD doesn't currently support this (about the only FS which does is NXFS, the NetWare eXtended File System, which I wrote for the NetWare for UNIX product while I was at Novell). Without this, if you can get a path on a filesystem, you can open any inode that you have permissions to the inode, regardless of the permissions of the intermediate path. > This of > course can change at any moment. The current proposal is to make an > filesystem where inodes can be accessed directly as files.. ie: > > fopen("/mnt/__inode_#12345#","r"); > or something similar looking to that. It actually doesn't sound like a > monster to implement at all. And as a separate filesystem solves many of > the fsck problems Coda currently has. I have implemented this at one time, and I have very recently provided assistance to Adrian Chadd, who has implemented it in -current. The idea is not new. This is called a "namespace incursion". It places a "magic" prefix in the namespace. My suggested escape, and the one I believe Adrian used, is the string ^I^N^O^D^E (8th bit set on all 5 characters), followed by decimal digits for the inode number. You can use any path onto the FS to get the dev_t. This works for current working directory, as well. Probably the correct way to implement this is to use the POSIX namespace escape, "//". Unfortunately, the FreeBSD namei() code is broken, such that an escape can not be inherited on a per path component basis, and applied solely to the terminal path component. I have patches for this which have not been committed. Practically, for this specific use, the namespace incursion is just about as good. You can reach Adrian Chadd at the following email address: > I'm totally with you on wanting to get Coda going strong on FreeBSD, and > will lend all the free coding time I have. If you need any architectural information, let me know. I know the FreeBSD FS code backwards and forwards. > As an aside, you also mentioned AFS. Has that been progressign at all on > the FreeBSD front? I havn't heard anything but light rustle about AFS. AFS was ported to NetBSD. FreeBSD couldn't use the NetBSD implementation for two reasons: 1) The kernel interface differences between FreeBSD and NetBSD; namely, the interfaces consumed by FS implementations that were terminal (bottom end) implementations. Things like local media filesystems, the NFS client, and the AFS client. These differences have recently gotten worse. I've been working upstream to try to reduce the number of interfaces that are consumed by terminal FS implementations, but it is slow going trying to get the code committed. 2) The VOP interface difference. Initially, this was just the mechanism for use of "cookies" in VOP_READDIR (a particularly ugly soloution to the search restart problem brought on by the underlying FS exposing the wrong view of the struct direct, instead of exposing an opaque pointer and a translation VOP). NetBSD has a slightly different cookie mechanism, but both are fundamentally broken by design. This leads to a lot of NFS code working around the breakage, and occasional NFS problems. The same workarounds are required in most VFS consumers. These differences have also recently gotten worse, and in fact, a number of VOP's necessary to the seperation of block naming from the imposistion of directory hierarchy have been removed. Eventually I expect them to come back. In any case, if it's already working, then you have these workarounds; if you don't, there are ways around the problems that I can help you with, if CODA isn't enough of a reason to get it fixed the right way. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:51:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18507 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:51:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send1d.yahoomail.com (send1d.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA18480 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:51:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k0zm0z@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19980212194840.5943.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.155.93.60] by send1d; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:48:40 PST Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:48:40 -0800 (PST) From: kozmo killah Subject: Re: help with editor? To: Greg Lehey Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I Never Thought I'd Be the One Telling You This: I Actually Read a Piece of E-Mail & I'm Going to Europe on the Proceeds! Hello! My name is Karen Liddell; I'm a 35-year-old mom, wife, and part-time accountant. As a rule, I delete all unsolicited "junk" e-mail and use my account primarily for business. I received what I assumed was this same e-mail countless times and deleted it each time. About two months ago I received it again and, because of the catchy subject line, I finally read it. Afterwards, I thought , "OK, I give in, I'm going to try this. I can certainly afford to invest $20 and, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with creating a little excess cash." 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If you can open an envelope, remove the money, and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank. Take the time to read this so you'll understand how easy it is. If I can do this, so can you! GO FOR IT NOW!! Karen Liddell The following is a copy of the e-mail I read: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!! You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever see. Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash. This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income. This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank! "This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for! Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams can come true! When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME!" Thousands of people have used this program to: - Raise capital to start their own business - Pay off debts - Buy homes, cars, etc., - Even retire! "This is your chance, so don't pass it up!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Basically, this is what we do: We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (via your computer). The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing $5.00 each. Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include: * $5.00 cash * The name and number of the report they are ordering * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered. To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. THAT'S IT! The $5.00 is yours! This is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere! FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS! ******* I N S T R U C T I O N S ******* This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). * For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. * When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four reports. You will need all four reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. * Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2. c. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. d. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. e. The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from the list and has NO DOUBT collected a very large sum of money. Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. 4. Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the WORLDWIDE WEB! Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists. You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY! 5. For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! ------------------------------------------ AVAILABLE REPORTS ------------------------------------------ ***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*** Notes: - ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT - ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL - Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper - On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your postal address. _________________________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: KBL P.O. Box 624-4960 Irvine, CA 92616-4960 _________________________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: TLK Enterprises 1439 North Berwick Indianapolis, IN 46222 _________________________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: MEV PO Box 5153 GREENWICH, CT 06831 _________________________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Pat Owens 309 Teakwood Dr. Monroe, LA 71203 __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN CAN MAKE YOU $MONEY$ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 10 members with $5...........................................$50 2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500 3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000 4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000 THIS TOTALS ----------->$55,550 Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT#3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists. Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade! About 250,000 new people get online every month, just on one service alone! *******TIPS FOR SUCCESS******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received." * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! *******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE******* Here are some guidelines to follow that can better guarantee your success: If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2. If you don't, continue advertising until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails (500,000 or more) and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! You can also ask a qualified bulk e-mailer for tips on what is working the best. Find out if he or she is participating in the pro gram. NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business taxes. *******T E S T I M O N I A L S******* This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her wh en the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM. Frank T., Bel-Air, MD I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. I even checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal. It definitely is! IT WORKS!!! Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in. Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq. Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return. Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more than $41,000 on the first try!! D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spending! Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!! *** Get The A.I.A.T Bulk Emailer FREE - Where To Get it *** *** FAX/CALL +1 212 2082904 (US) or FAX +44 (01772) 492507 (UK) *** *** Or Download From FireFox Freeware http://209.150.131.246 *** ---Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Fri, 6 February 1998 at 18:33:36 -0800, kozmo killah wrote: > > [ Nothing legible, just a web page from the Tortilla Industry > Association ] > > PLEASE stop sending this nonsense, or I'll recommend to have you taken > off the distribution list. Read http://www.lemis.com/email.html for > how to send mail messages. If you're having so much difficulty that > you can't even send a mail message, you're obviously going to have to > solve that problem some other way. > > Greg >
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at Yahoo! Mail.
To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:58:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19397 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:58:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.31.78.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19384 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:58:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA11974; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:52:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:52:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" cc: jra@colltech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > It almost did for me too, but doesn't seem to work on any kernal compiled > with firewalling. Has anyone else seen this behavior, or have I just > tweeked the poor thing all by myself? Works for me. /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 12:05:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20475 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:05:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20413 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:04:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21502; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:04:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd021482; Thu Feb 12 13:04:07 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA20960; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:04:05 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802122004.NAA20960@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:04:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: owensc@enc.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, braam@cs.cmu.edu In-Reply-To: <19980212185933.22479@follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Feb 12, 98 06:59:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > And ext2fs is AFAIK only faster due to the default blocksize and the > fact that they violate a patented Novell technology. (Terry can say > more on this; they either violate DOW-patents or run unsafe; I forget > which...) This is false; the only people who use DOW are USL, AFAIK. DOW is inferior to Soft Updates to the same degree that the Banker's algorithm is inferior to Warshall's transitive closure algorithm for concurrency. I do *NOT* believe Linux is in violation of any patents in ext2fs; this is my professional opinion, and I'm willing to testify to it in court, if Linux needed me to do so. The default setting for ext2fs is to run async, which is provably (in the mathematical sense) unsafe. At least it's probable to people who understand math. 8-). So ext2fs does *run* unsafe. But it's not fair to say that it *is* unsafe; you can turn on sync, and ext2fs will be as safe as FFS (by default, FFS sets "doingasyncfree" to "on", which is just as dangerous as ext2fs's technique; if you turn this off, FFS is safer, but slower, than ext2fs. Leave it alone, and they are very comparable). [ ... good security discussion on flat inode namespaces ... ] See my other posting. There is already an implementation of this for FreeBSD. The main answer is "turn this off if you are chrooted". > If this is what it takes to get Coda, I for one won't use it, but I > can probably create and commit a kernel option that give the access > methods so that others can. One problem here is that the per process root FS being equal to NULL is considered to be a non-chrooted environment; actually, the compare should be done against the known real root vp, to see if it's the same, and the known real root vp should be set: the value of NULL should not be used to determine "chrootness" (ie: it breaks for relative paths). This is one of my patches to namei, though it needs a patch to init's startup, as well, to inherit the original root vp into the proc struct. If you don't use chroot in combination with this, it's not a problem; if you do, well, it's a security bug in FreeBSD's namei() implementation. > It will not be part of FreeBSD in the default configuration, at least > not if I have any say in the matter. (Sorry to be so brutal, but it > really kill a lot of security assumptions.) Technically, this could use the NFS server locking fcntl() which is used to convert NFS file handles into an open fd. I like this option better than leaving it out, better than the namespace incursion, but less than the POSIX namespace escape (I can prove a fixed namei() is topologically equivalent to a vouchsafe, if necessary, and if you are willing to withstand topology , group theory, and Clifford algebra's; most people just take my word for it... ;-)). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 12:13:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21853 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:13:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21837 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:13:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA14505; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:10:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:10:05 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: A Joseph Koshy cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-Reply-To: <199802121141.DAA19040@palrel1.hp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What are you talking about? On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, A Joseph Koshy wrote: > Its sad to see that yet another part of the FreeBSD source tree is to be > surgically extracted on account of `trademark violations' :(. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 12:54:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29126 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:54:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA28700 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:53:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0y35Mx-0007aP-00; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:36:27 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:36:27 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Charles Owens cc: hackers list FreeBSD Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Charles Owens wrote: > * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs > (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is > it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?) If you mount BSD filesystems async, you will get similar speed, and similar reliability. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 13:11:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02499 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:11:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02464 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:11:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from charnier@xp11.frmug.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id WAA12218; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:10:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from charnier@xp11.frmug.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xp11.frmug.org (8.8.8/8.8.8/xp11-uucp-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA01693; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:30:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from charnier@xp11.frmug.org) Message-Id: <199802121930.UAA01693@xp11.frmug.org> To: cjs@netbsd.org cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@bsdi.com Subject: Re: tail -F patches Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:30:27 +0100 From: "Philippe Charnier" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, In the patch you posted: + if ((fp = fopen(fname, "r")) == NULL) + err(1, "can't reopen %s: %s", + fname, strerror(errno)); Err(3) already displays the output of `strerror(errno)', so the following will suffice: err(1, "can't reopen %s", fname); - err(1, "-f option only appropriate for a single file"); + err(1, "-f and -F options only appropriate for a single file"); No need to use err(3) here because errno is nothing but garbage. Use errx(3) instead. Have a nice day. ------ ------ Philippe Charnier charnier@{lirmm.fr,xp11.frmug.org,FreeBSD.org} ``a PC not running FreeBSD is like a venusian with no tentacles'' ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 13:32:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06253 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:32:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA06177 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:32:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 8124 invoked by uid 1001); 12 Feb 1998 21:32:07 +0000 (GMT) To: ji@research.att.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:44:54 -0500 (EST)" References: <199802121944.OAA05915@bual.research.att.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:32:07 +0100 Message-ID: <8122.887319127@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If no code is available, > and there is interest, I may hack something up over the weekend. Cisco has > their own tunneling protocol (I forget exactly what TLA they use to name it), GRE. > which I believe is just IP-in-IP (same as protocol 4) but I may be mistaken. > If someone can point me to documentation, I'll use it! RFC 1702. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 13:56:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09686 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:56:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09665 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:56:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04198; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:54:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: A Joseph Koshy cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:12:16 +0530." <199802121141.DAA19040@palrel1.hp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:54:15 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I can't speak for the project, but I did follow the discussions last time. It's unfortunate that people didn't really get the sense of the basic principle involved. > Its sad to see that yet another part of the FreeBSD source tree is to be > surgically extracted on account of `trademark violations' :(. Yes, it is. But this is the way that trademarks work. > Q1: How far is FreeBSD willing to go in the direction of ripping out > portions of its source base? Is it willing to remove files in > non-games directories? If such files reasonably constitute trademark violations, and there is a real threat of action, then *something* will have to be done, yes. > Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that > "violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia? > Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source > base to satisfy litigants from other countries? It's not a question of "being willing", and this is, I think, where people are missing the point. If the FreeBSD project is faced with litigative action over a trademark infringement, what courses of action are available? - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark litigation is rarely started against small parties without some expectation of success. - Give in. So you can see where we have to go. Terry raised the issue that renaming, rather than just removing, things would be desirable. This could be made to work, but it requires developer resources that we don't have, and so far the components in question haven't seemed to justify the effort. > Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package > from anywhere else in the world? Obviously, no. You can get them off an old FreeBSD CDROM though. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 13:58:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10100 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:58:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw1.att.com [192.128.133.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA10006 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw1.att.com; Thu Feb 12 12:11 CST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by kcig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id MAA09904 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:02:48 -0600 (CST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <1TCGK1V3>; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:17:11 -0500 Message-ID: To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, owensc@enc.edu Subject: RE: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:17:08 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > > * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions > that > will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is > seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with > reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on > these extensions: > > http://telemann.coda.cs.cmu.edu/maillists/linux-coda/0225.html > Probably I don't understand something or understand something wrong but it does not seem a really big issue for me. As far as I understood from this article, Coda uses some traditional filesystem as its lower level ? And it needs this inode access to speed up the operation ? Then why not just create a special filesystem that will not contain any data except Coda's and that will use inode numbers instead of file names ? Or, as a yet simpler approach, write a user-level library that will make its own filesystem structure in a plain file (and then it will be possible to use a disk special file as this plain file) ? -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:26:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14420 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:26:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (root@cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14342 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:25:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA20259; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:24:14 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:24:14 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: Philippe Charnier cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tail -F patches In-Reply-To: <199802121930.UAA01693@xp11.frmug.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You should mention which system you're talking about. In NetBSD's misc.c, which is from 4.4-lite, err() does not print strerror(errno), and there is no errx(). cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Philippe Charnier wrote: > To: cjs@netbsd.org > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@bsdi.com > Subject: Re: tail -F patches > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:30:27 +0100 > From: Philippe Charnier > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hello, > > In the patch you posted: > + if ((fp = fopen(fname, "r")) == NULL) > + err(1, "can't reopen %s: %s", > + fname, strerror(errno)); > > Err(3) already displays the output of `strerror(errno)', so the following > will suffice: > err(1, "can't reopen %s", fname); > > - err(1, "-f option only appropriate for a single file"); > + err(1, "-f and -F options only appropriate for a single file"); > > No need to use err(3) here because errno is nothing but garbage. Use errx(3) > instead. > > Have a nice day. > ------ ------ > Philippe Charnier charnier@{lirmm.fr,xp11.frmug.org,FreeBSD.org} > > ``a PC not running FreeBSD is like a venusian with no tentacles'' > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:26:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14597 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:26:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14314 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:25:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19731; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:54:37 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA03936; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:54:37 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980213085436.13673@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:54:36 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith , A Joseph Koshy Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations References: <199802121141.DAA19040@palrel1.hp.com> <199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 01:54:15PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 February 1998 at 13:54:15 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >> Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that >> "violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia? >> Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source >> base to satisfy litigants from other countries? > > It's not a question of "being willing", and this is, I think, where > people are missing the point. > > If the FreeBSD project is faced with litigative action over a trademark > infringement, what courses of action are available? > > - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few > million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark > litigation is rarely started against small parties without some > expectation of success. The expectation of success might be that somebody in the small party assesses the chances of their success (based on their financial ability) as small, and comes to the conclusion: > - Give in. >> Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package >> from anywhere else in the world? > > Obviously, no. It's not that obvious. After the USL decision, FreeBSD and BSDI had to stop distributing Net/2. Two year later, Dr. Dobbs did a CD-ROM with the stuff on it. So what's this all about? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:34:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16038 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:34:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15957 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:33:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nash@Jupiter.Mcs.Net) Received: from Jupiter.Mcs.Net (nash@Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.88]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA00520; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:33:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (nash@localhost) by Jupiter.Mcs.Net (8.8.7/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA10694; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:33:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:33:43 -0600 (CST) From: Alex Nash To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , jra@colltech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > It almost did for me too, but doesn't seem to work on any kernal compiled > with firewalling. Has anyone else seen this behavior, or have I just > tweeked the poor thing all by myself? SKIP uses IP protocol 57 (and IIRC, a couple of UDP ports for key exchange), perhaps your firewall configuration is blocking these? Try adding a deny rule which logs all packets just before the final deny rule: ipfw add 65534 deny log ip from any to any Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:39:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16969 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:39:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16958 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:39:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04410; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:36:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802122236.OAA04410@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , A Joseph Koshy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:54:36 +1030." <19980213085436.13673@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:36:15 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, 12 February 1998 at 13:54:15 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > >> Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that > >> "violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia? > >> Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source > >> base to satisfy litigants from other countries? > > > > It's not a question of "being willing", and this is, I think, where > > people are missing the point. > > > > If the FreeBSD project is faced with litigative action over a trademark > > infringement, what courses of action are available? > > > > - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few > > million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark > > litigation is rarely started against small parties without some > > expectation of success. > > The expectation of success might be that somebody in the small party > assesses the chances of their success (based on their financial > ability) as small, and comes to the conclusion: Are you actually familiar with the basic principles behind trademark law? Did you read all the way through this thread last time 'round? There was a particularly interesting post which gave the trademark classification groupings of interest here, along with input from a number of people that have clearly been involved in this sort of thing before. A trademark litigation profiteer is not going to propose or commence action without expectations of success. That would be bad business. > >> Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package > >> from anywhere else in the world? > > > > Obviously, no. > > It's not that obvious. After the USL decision, FreeBSD and BSDI had > to stop distributing Net/2. Two year later, Dr. Dobbs did a CD-ROM > with the stuff on it. Separate incidents. > So what's this all about? Hasbro and Boggle. If they were really tenacious, they could probably claim look-and-feel as well. How long since *you* played Boggle(tm) on your system? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:47:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18384 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:47:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18365 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:46:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA09762; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:42:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:42:09 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Max Euston cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: Modifications to more(1) In-Reply-To: <01BD37B9.6FDEED00.meuston@jmrodgers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Max Euston wrote: > this leads me to believe that this option is out-of-date (also > it does not follow the standard). My question is: should I fix > the -# option or remove it (my vote is to remove it - see > below). How long has it been broken? If it was broken in the last release or two, then probably no-one has noticed and it should just disappear. > 3) Use the LINES= environment variable (ala vi(1)) to set the screen height 4) [totally optional :-]. Handle long lines in the extreme better. If you have a long file with no \n or \r, and more down to near the end, then press `k' or `b', it will `k' or `b' v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y. Hehe. Good luck! :) -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:48:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18731 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:48:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18683; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11282; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:47:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd011248; Thu Feb 12 15:47:21 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA02917; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:47:10 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802122247.PAA02917@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux To: rober+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:47:09 +0000 (GMT) Cc: owensc@enc.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Robert Watson" at Feb 12, 98 01:39:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Our long-term goal is to work with various communities (such as FreeBSD, > Linux) to come up with a generalized authentication extension available to > distributed file systems (such as AFS, CFS) for associating tokens or > priveledges with a set of processes, not just with a UID. Those of you > familiar with AFS will know that if you have two incoming telnets, one can > have rights to the file system while the other does not, depending on > whether you have klog'd or not. There are numerous reasons for having > such a service -- for example, it would be nice if daemons running as root > did not have access to the same file system as a root shell elsewhere, > etc. Not the least of which is UNIX NetWare and SMB client filesystems, and file and directory level security (password protection). This is a general issue with credentials on UNIX systems, and on the implementation of connection level authentication instead of transaction level authentication in general (protocols developed for single user machines typically do not consider the problem of how to proxy multiple credentials over a single connection). A general implementation requires the ability to have the kernel call back into user space to ask the user questions, like "what is your SMB password?". This is, in fact, the job of a "session manager". A session manager can operate in three modes: 1) Preload. Credential information is preloaded. The session manager registers, and accepts and responds to kernel requests for authentication on behalf of the user. Preload is typically used on async terminal type connections, including telnet, where there is no way for the kernel to establish a covert channel to the user, out of band, to ask for the credential information. Preload does not work well for interactive extension. For example, a mounted SMBFS in the UNIX filespace hierarchy. For old mounts, the mountpoint traversal uses the preloaded credentials. For mountpoints not previously traversed, the information is not available, and the traversal fails for reasons of non-authentication. The Windows 95 and Windows NT Workstation "password cache" is an example of a preload session manager, as is the LANMan "NET LOG" command. 2) Use interaction. Credential informormation is only requested when an action that requires credential information is first attempted. The programs which make first attempts, like the mount program, transiently register with the session manager as an "interactor". They then attempt the action, which causes the kernel to call back to the session manager, and the session manager to call bac to the interactor. Use interaction is typically used where there are formal events that preceed additional interaction requiring the credential. The most obvious interactors would be the mount programs for NetWare and SMB mounts, which would request the NetWare or SMB credentials from the user at the time they were executed. The session manager would cache the information for future reference. Use interaction does not work well with procedurally unwrappered events, like mount point traversal or per file or directory access controls. This is because the shell built-in "cd" can not function as an interactor, and neither can the systemcalls chdir(2) and fchdir(2) function as interactors, so support for legacy programs is impossible. The Windows 95 and Windows NT Workstation "Network Neighborhood" browsing, when descending into a new share with access controls, *approximates* use interaction (the session manager prompts you, but it could as easily be the network browser prompting you). 3) Event interaction. Event interaction means that, when an OS event occurs that requires a credential, the session manager requests the credential from the user on behalf of the kernel via a covert channel. Use of a "covert channel" means that the signalling between the user and the session manager can not be "in band". For example, a user on a Televideo 925 terminal can not be contacted via a covert channel. This is because of the fact that to contact the user will destroy information on the users screen, and that the user may be unable to recover the destroyed information because the application may have been written in such a way as to to not expect to be interrupted. As a result, the application sstate can not be recovered. Even if you can suspend the application and resume it (so that any read it has posted does not interfere with your session manager's read request), the interaction is asynchronus, and prone to user confusion. The most likely candidates for a covert channel are, in order of ease of implementation: o An X session manager associated with the xdm process o A session manager on the console that uses the fact that the system console memory can be read to save and restore application state. o A session manager built into the "screen" program that can use the "screen" program's virtual terminal backing store to save and restore state. o A VMS-style broadcast mecahnism. Like transparent printing, this requires a finite state automaton in the tty driver so that the kernel can know that the terminal is not in the middle of processing an escape sequence when it triggers. Alternately, all applications must be written to ensure atomic escape sequence writes (an unrealistic goal). Typically, you would combine methods #1 and #3 to provide the user with a password cache facility, ala Windows 95. > It seems like freebsd-afs might be a better location for this discussion, > however -- at least until we figure out what the requirements are? Take a look at previous SMBFS discussions on the -hackers and -current lists. This is a well-worn issue. The soloution is well known, but not implemented. At a minimum. for SMBFS, we need at least #2 and per user "mounts". For file and directory level passwords, we need at least #1. A minimal spanning implementation is #1, and a full implementation could wait until later (if it had to). You can look at these discussions in the list archive accessible through www.freebsd.org. I would suggest a common session manager callback API; basically, the session manager would select on a session managemement fd, and when the kernel had requests, the select would come true and the manager would read from the fd. This would let the session manager handle things in the forground as well (like an X user clicking about in its user interface). I would also suggest that a formal standardization of credential implementation take place, so that session managers for a given UNIX credential would configurably be shared and/or share information with other UNIX credentials (ie: one session manager per credential OR multiple session managers that share information between them, such as when one user logs into two X terminals). I'd be happy to help on a reference implementation, though I don't really want to bite the bullet on the X requester; my main interest is for an SMB client FS and file and directory level security. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:49:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19282 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:49:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.31.78.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19099 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:48:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA14496; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:48:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:48:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Eivind Eklund cc: Charles Owens , hackers list FreeBSD , braam@cs.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux In-Reply-To: <19980212185933.22479@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I for one would love to see this feature (if indeed you are talking about open by inode#). It is highly useful for applications that wish to bypas limitations of FS name lookup (bypass the overhead that is) and implement their own faster indexing directly. News is one such application. (Store article inode# in the overview database and open directly.) For a big fileserver you aren't likely to have local users that could take advantage of the security problems you describe, and CODA will be hidning that information so remote machines won't be able to abuse it either. Of course if we had Veritas or XFS we would have no need to open by inode# as they store their metadata in structures that support high speed lookups by nature. If you wouldn't mind spending the 15 minutes to implement this functionality I for one would be most interested in seeing your patches. Would you be implementing a new open call like say iopen(). Are we even talking about the same thing here? :) On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > It would take about 15 minutes to create this functionality, and it > has been discussed before. It has been decided against on the basis > of security. This break chroot() completely, and it break the > protection you presently have when > > -rwxr-x--- src/ > -rwxr-xr-x src/somefile > > - somefile will be available to an attacker. > > If this is what it takes to get Coda, I for one won't use it, but I > can probably create and commit a kernel option that give the access > methods so that others can. > > It will not be part of FreeBSD in the default configuration, at least > not if I have any say in the matter. (Sorry to be so brutal, but it > really kill a lot of security assumptions.) /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:52:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20231 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:52:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20202 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:52:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19765; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:20:36 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA05844; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:20:36 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980213092035.32504@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:20:35 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: A Joseph Koshy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations References: <19980213085436.13673@freebie.lemis.com> <199802122236.OAA04410@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802122236.OAA04410@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 02:36:15PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 February 1998 at 14:36:15 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> On Thu, 12 February 1998 at 13:54:15 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>> >>>> Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that >>>> "violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia? >>>> Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source >>>> base to satisfy litigants from other countries? >>> >>> It's not a question of "being willing", and this is, I think, where >>> people are missing the point. >>> >>> If the FreeBSD project is faced with litigative action over a trademark >>> infringement, what courses of action are available? >>> >>> - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few >>> million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark >>> litigation is rarely started against small parties without some >>> expectation of success. >> >> The expectation of success might be that somebody in the small party >> assesses the chances of their success (based on their financial >> ability) as small, and comes to the conclusion: > > Are you actually familiar with the basic principles behind trademark > law? Yes. They default to the basic principles behind civil litigation, one of which is "I have a good chance of success if I can convince you that you can't win". > Did you read all the way through this thread last time 'round? There > was a particularly interesting post which gave the trademark > classification groupings of interest here, along with input from a > number of people that have clearly been involved in this sort of thing > before. No, I missed that. > A trademark litigation profiteer is not going to propose or commence > action without expectations of success. That would be bad business. I didn't say they would. I just pointed out one reason they might expect success. It has nothing to do with being in the right. >>>> Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package >>>> from anywhere else in the world? >>> >>> Obviously, no. >> >> It's not that obvious. After the USL decision, FreeBSD and BSDI had >> to stop distributing Net/2. Two year later, Dr. Dobbs did a CD-ROM >> with the stuff on it. > > Separate incidents. What's separate about it? It was the same code base. For some reason (probably because they didn't see them as a threat), USL didn't proceed against Jolitz. I still thought it was risky to release the CD-ROM. >> So what's this all about? > > Hasbro and Boggle. If they were really tenacious, they could probably > claim look-and-feel as well. > > How long since *you* played Boggle(tm) on your system? What is it? Seriously, though, I think that there is an issue here. I'm not criticizing the FreeBSD project for removing it, but claims of look and feel are getting too far. Not to mention sound. I'm now calling all the non-door openings on my house "Fenster", because the English translation now belongs to a voracious American company. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:53:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20479 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:53:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20427 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:53:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12691; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:52:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd012605; Thu Feb 12 15:52:47 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA03177; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:52:46 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802122252.PAA03177@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:52:45 +0000 (GMT) Cc: koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 12, 98 01:54:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > So you can see where we have to go. Terry raised the issue that > renaming, rather than just removing, things would be desirable. > > This could be made to work, but it requires developer resources that we > don't have, and so far the components in question haven't seemed to > justify the effort. You must change history, in either case. The way to do this is to edit the file name in the RCS file. As far as editing vs. deleting: I think it takes as much resource one way as it does the other. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 15:00:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22148 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:00:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freya.circle.net (freya.circle.net [209.95.95.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22082 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:00:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tcobb@staff.circle.net) From: tcobb@staff.circle.net Received: by freya.circle.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <1GN8PTY0>; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:50:34 -0500 Message-ID: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A4083053@freya.circle.net> To: eivind@yes.no, winter@jurai.net Cc: owensc@enc.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, braam@cs.cmu.edu Subject: RE: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:50:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I would be able to use such a mechanism right away, particularly for the storage side of a multimedia database. If my vote counts at all, I'd also ask for that 15 minute patch :) 'Twould be wonderful to mount a partition as an inode-based FS and use it as the storage backend. - Troy On Thursday, February 12, 1998 5:48 PM, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > I for one would love to see this feature (if indeed you are talking about > open by inode#). It is highly useful for applications that wish to bypas > limitations of FS name lookup (bypass the overhead that is) and implement > their own faster indexing directly. News is one such application. (Store > article inode# in the overview database and open directly.) > > For a big fileserver you aren't likely to have local users that could take > advantage of the security problems you describe, and CODA will be hidning > that information so remote machines won't be able to abuse it either. > > Of course if we had Veritas or XFS we would have no need to open by inode# > as they store their metadata in structures that support high speed lookups > by nature. > > If you wouldn't mind spending the 15 minutes to implement this > functionality I for one would be most interested in seeing your patches. > > Would you be implementing a new open call like say iopen(). > > Are we even talking about the same thing here? :) > > On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > It would take about 15 minutes to create this functionality, and it > > has been discussed before. It has been decided against on the basis > > of security. This break chroot() completely, and it break the > > protection you presently have when > > > > -rwxr-x--- src/ > > -rwxr-xr-x src/somefile > > > > - somefile will be available to an attacker. > > > > If this is what it takes to get Coda, I for one won't use it, but I > > can probably create and commit a kernel option that give the access > > methods so that others can. > > > > It will not be part of FreeBSD in the default configuration, at least > > not if I have any say in the matter. (Sorry to be so brutal, but it > > really kill a lot of security assumptions.) > /* > Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life > winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to > http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 > */ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 15:02:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22837 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:02:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA22758 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:02:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id WAA20425; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:32:16 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802122132.WAA20425@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:32:16 +0100 (MET) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980213092035.32504@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Feb 13, 98 09:20:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > and feel are getting too far. Not to mention sound. I'm now calling > all the non-door openings on my house "Fenster", because the English > translation now belongs to a voracious American company. and I have heard in some countries said company uses the national translation as the product name... cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 15:05:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23842 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:05:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23811 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:05:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04609; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:04:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802122304.PAA04609@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:32:16 +0100." <199802122132.WAA20425@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:04:44 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > and feel are getting too far. Not to mention sound. I'm now calling > > all the non-door openings on my house "Fenster", because the English > > translation now belongs to a voracious American company. > > and I have heard in some countries said company uses the national > translation as the product name... "Fenstern". Sounds like a hormone supplement for chickens. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 15:06:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24260 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:06:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24241 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:06:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04588; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:03:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802122303.PAA04588@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , A Joseph Koshy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:20:35 +1030." <19980213092035.32504@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:03:22 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >>> - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few > >>> million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark > >>> litigation is rarely started against small parties without some > >>> expectation of success. > >> > >> The expectation of success might be that somebody in the small party > >> assesses the chances of their success (based on their financial > >> ability) as small, and comes to the conclusion: > > > > Are you actually familiar with the basic principles behind trademark > > law? > > Yes. They default to the basic principles behind civil litigation, > one of which is "I have a good chance of success if I can convince you > that you can't win". This doesn't, however, mean that they *don't* have a strong case. Let's look at this another way: Are you willing to fund the FreeBSD Project's defence against a trademark litigation case pursued by Hasbro? If the answer is "no", then regardless of how you may _feel_ about the rightness or wrongness of the case, resistance is not a viable alternative. > > Did you read all the way through this thread last time 'round? There > > was a particularly interesting post which gave the trademark > > classification groupings of interest here, along with input from a > > number of people that have clearly been involved in this sort of thing > > before. > > No, I missed that. It makes for interesting reading. We appear to be in the same namespace as inflatable cushions and stuffed toys. > > A trademark litigation profiteer is not going to propose or commence > > action without expectations of success. That would be bad business. > > I didn't say they would. I just pointed out one reason they might > expect success. It has nothing to do with being in the right. None of this does. Which is why all this loud moralistic breast-beating is so pointless. Resistance *is* futile. Let the Vogons have their silly name and game; we've got better things to do with our time. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 15:17:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26632 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:17:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26612 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:17:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04707; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:16:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802122316.PAA04707@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Brian McGovern cc: Mike Smith , dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:52:01 EST." <199802120052.TAA06972@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:16:00 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The UARTs they use on the board have a 64 byte buffer. By Cyclades > estimates, about 32 bytes would be available about the time the > firmware would be ready to move the data into whatever buffers > it uses. Does the firmware buffer in the onboard card memory? How does it use DMA to the host's memory? Particularly, does it require a separate DMA setup for every transfer, or can you just give it an address range to work in and not have to continually reprogram it? (I don't have the 9060 docco to hand here, so I can't check that.) > Again, I ask from the perspective that I'm trying to minimize HOST CPU > usage for moving the data, and figured a RAM (buffer) to RAM (clist) copy on > the motherboard would be cheaper/faster for the host than a RAM (buffer) to > RAM (clist) copy over the PCI bus. I'd therefore also expect that the inverse > would be true. But, from most of what I've heard, there should be little > difference at a cost of extra PLX9060 programming (which looks easy on > paper). I think the bottom line is going to be how much administrative overhead there is in reprogramming the 9060. How many 9060 register accesses are required per DMA? How many bytes of serial data are transferred per DMA? If the first is significantly less than a quarter of the second, then you have the opportunity to win. Although I think that was probably already obvious. > -Brian > -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 15:55:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02396 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:55:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from why.whine.com (whine-gw.whine.com [205.150.249.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02058 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:54:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@whine.com) Received: from why (why [205.150.249.1]) by why.whine.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00434; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:54:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:53:59 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Herdman X-Sender: andrew@why To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schilling@fokus.gmd.de Subject: CRW4260tx with cdrecord Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just purchased a new Yamaha CRW4260tx and would like to use cdrecord to write both RW CD's and RO CD's. Problem is i'm getting an odd error. The drive is probed as a scsi cd and comes up as cd0, i have linked /dev/rcd0.ctl to /dev/scgx which the instructions seem to indicate. After doing this, cdrecord is able to access the drive as shown below: # cdrecord -v dev=1,1,0 speed=2 /usr/iso.img Cdrecord release 1.5 Copyright (C) 1995-1997 Jvrg Schilling TOC Type: 1 = CD-ROM scsidev: '1,1,0' scsibus: 1 target: 1 lun: 0 Device type : Removable CD-ROM Version : 2 Response Format: 2 Capabilities : Vendor_info : 'YAMAHA ' Identifikation : 'CRW4260 ' Revision : '1.0e' Device seems to be: Generic mmc CD-RW. Using generic SCSI-3/mmc CD-R driver (mmc_cdr). Driver flags : SWABAUDIO Track 01: data 40 Mb Total size: 46 Mb (04:37.46) = 20810 sectors track info: 00 1A 01 01 00 00 4F 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 17 B4 00 00 00 00 00 05 17 B4 Set Starting to write CD at speed 2 in write mode for single session. Last chance to quit, starting real write in 1 seconds. Set Set track info: 00 1A 01 01 00 00 4F 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 17 B4 00 00 00 00 00 05 17 B4 Starting new track at sector: 0 cdrecord: Input/output error. write_g1: scsi sendcmd: no error status: 0x0 (GOOD STATUS) resid: 63488 write track data: error after 0 bytes Sense Bytes: 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 Writing time: 5.073s Fixating... cdrecord: Undefined error: 0. close session: scsi sendcmd: retryable error status: 0x0 (GOOD STATUS) Fixating time: 0.004s Now, this is the error message that the kernel gives me, and it really concerns me, as I don't see any switches to control data size... cd0: physio split the request.. cannot proceed Has anyone ever run into this problem before and found a way to correct it? I haven't tried CD-R media yet, but the error seems not to be a media issue. Thanks Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 16:46:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10924 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10918 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:46:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id QAA01851; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma001843; Thu Feb 12 16:45:16 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA27992; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:45:16 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802130045.QAA27992@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-Reply-To: from "Eric J. Schwertfeger" at "Feb 12, 98 11:06:29 am" To: ejs@bfd.com (Eric J. Schwertfeger) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:45:16 -0800 (PST) Cc: winter@jurai.net, jra@colltech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eric J. Schwertfeger writes: > On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 jra@colltech.com wrote: > > > Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under > > > -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the > > > cracks. > > > > /usr/ports/security/skip works find for me. > > It almost did for me too, but doesn't seem to work on any kernal compiled > with firewalling. Has anyone else seen this behavior, or have I just > tweeked the poor thing all by myself? > Check out /usr/local/share/doc/skip/README.FreeBSD if you haven't already. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 16:52:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12119 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:52:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tornado.cisco.com (tornado.cisco.com [171.69.104.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12101 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:52:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (bmcgover-pc.cisco.com [171.69.104.147]) by tornado.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA25461; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:51:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10455; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:51:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Message-Id: <199802130051.TAA10455@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> To: Mike Smith cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:16:00 PST." <199802122316.PAA04707@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:51:54 -0500 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I guess I've mis-represented some terminology, so I think we're off on a bit of a tangent. Let me start over, and hopefully, we'll get on track. The Cyclades card has (onboard) 1MB+ of RAM, some used for the board's firmware, and some used as circular queues for sending and receiving data (about 4K on the transmit side, and 8K on the receive). These buffers can be moved by reprogramming the PLX9060 to use a memory address on the HOST so long as its visable on the PCI bus. Once this is done, the BOARD's CPU will handle transferring the data to these queues, thereby eliminating the need for the HOST CPU to copy the data from the board. The question at hand was whether it was 'faster' to have the board transfer the data to the HOST's memory, so that a bcopy or b_to_q() call would be moving data from HOST memory to HOST memory, or is the gain insufficient, and its more prudent to have the HOST CPU move the data from the board itself. As far as programming goes, you merely have to tell the PLX9060 the address of the buffer, and the size, and the rest is handled by the board. The goal is to reduce the HOST CPU time spent moving data around without affecting throughput to the board. There, now that that is said, is the picture any clearer? -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 17:01:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13582 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:01:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.31.78.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13539 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:01:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA16573; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:00:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:00:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Archie Cobbs cc: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" , jra@colltech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-Reply-To: <199802130045.QAA27992@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG While we're on the subject is anyone interested in IPIP tunnel drivers? I've got a userland IPIP tunnel driver that someone wrote a while back and submited to -bugs and I cleaned up and added a manpage for. If someone wants to look at it and commit the port I'd appriciate it. ftp://ftp.jurai.net/users/winter/iptunnel.* for the port and source. I've been unable to contact the original author but I'm interpreting his submission of this code to -bugs as implicit permission to distribute. This works with Linux IPIP and Ciscos. Would anyone be interested in a kernel driver? /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 17:06:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14690 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:06:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14642 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:06:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05338; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:04:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802130104.RAA05338@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Brian McGovern cc: Mike Smith , dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:51:54 EST." <199802130051.TAA10455@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:04:39 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I guess I've mis-represented some terminology, so I think we're off on a bit > of a tangent. Let me start over, and hopefully, we'll get on track. No, just not enough data. > These buffers can be moved by reprogramming the PLX9060 to use a memory > address on the HOST so long as its visable on the PCI bus. Once this is done, > the BOARD's CPU will handle transferring the data to these queues, thereby > eliminating the need for the HOST CPU to copy the data from the board. Aha, but what is significant is that once you have set this buffer up you don't have to again. > The question at hand was whether it was 'faster' to have the board transfer > the data to the HOST's memory, so that a bcopy or b_to_q() call would > be moving data from HOST memory to HOST memory, or is the gain insufficient, > and its more prudent to have the HOST CPU move the data from the board > itself. It will definitely be faster to have the board push to host memory. > The goal is to reduce the HOST CPU time spent moving data around without > affecting throughput to the board. Yup. If you have the data in main memory, you will have to make sure that your access techniques allow you to exclude the board interfering while you play with its control structures. > There, now that that is said, is the picture any clearer? Yes. If host CPU usage is currently an issue, this will reduce the overheads to a degree. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 17:30:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19367 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:30:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.netsol.net (ns1.netsol.net [38.216.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19330 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:30:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matthew@netsol.net) Received: from AAA.futurelab.com ([38.185.32.25]) by ns1.netsol.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-42781U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA171 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:35:08 -0800 Received: by AAA.futurelab.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BD37DB.9B0B0C80@AAA.futurelab.com>; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:28:17 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD37DB.9B0B0C80@AAA.futurelab.com> From: matthew@netsol.net (netsol,matthew) To: "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies? Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:05:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD37DB.9B143440" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD37DB.9B143440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As many times as you can if all this data may e modified from minutes ro minutes matt at Future Lab ---------- From: Mike Smith Sent: Monday, February 09, 1998 7:56 PM To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies? (Please pardon the crosspost to -isp; I'm looking for comments from people with experience administering backup strategies for largish networks, and I suspect some of you lurk there.) I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or similar.) I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that's been involved in setting up and/or operating such a backup system, as well as perhaps being interested in doing something similar for the FreeBSD project. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD37DB.9B143440 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhEBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAHAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGhhY2tlcnNARnJlZUJT RC5PUkcAU01UUABoYWNrZXJzQEZyZWVCU0QuT1JHAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAUAAAAaGFja2Vyc0BGcmVlQlNELk9SRwADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAWAAAA J2hhY2tlcnNARnJlZUJTRC5PUkcnAAAAAgELMAEAAAAZAAAAU01UUDpIQUNLRVJTQEZSRUVCU0Qu T1JHAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACfC8BBIABAEQAAABSRTogTGFy Z2Ugc3lzdGVtIGJhY2t1cHM7IHJlY29tbWVuZGF0aW9ucyBmb3IgZGV2aWNlcyAmIHN0cmF0ZWdp ZXM/AJcYAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcCAAwAEQAFACUABAAiAQEggAMADgAAAM4HAgAMABEABAAzAAQALwEB CYABACEAAAA2OUVGMEMxN0NBQTNEMTExQjNGNDQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMAD1BgEDkAYAPAYAABQAAAAL ACMAAQAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAEAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AKDPrn4bOL0BHgBwAAEA AABEAAAAUkU6IExhcmdlIHN5c3RlbSBiYWNrdXBzOyByZWNvbW1lbmRhdGlvbnMgZm9yIGRldmlj ZXMgJiBzdHJhdGVnaWVzPwACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvTgbfpYXDO9qo8oR0bP0REVTVAAAAAAeAB4M AQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEwAAAG1hdHRoZXdAbmV0c29sLm5ldAAAAwAGEDsYw+sD AAcQ5QMAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEFTTUFOWVRJTUVTQVNZT1VDQU5JRkFMTFRISVNEQVRBTUFZRU1P RElGSUVERlJPTU1JTlVURVNST01JTlVURVNNQVRUQVRGVVRVUkVMQUItLS0tLS0tLS0tRlJPTTpN SUtFU00AAAAAAgEJEAEAAACHBAAAgwQAAFAIAABMWkZ18oNIZP8ACgEPAhUCpAPkBesCgwBQEwNU AgBjaArAc2V07jIGAAbDAoMyA8YHEwKD1jMPfxCHNBMNfQqACM/FCdk7F68yNTUCgAqBgw2xC2Bu ZzEwMxQg9wsKEvIMAWMAQBNwBCADgah5IHQHc2EEIHkIYFwgYwORBpAdYGwDIHTiaAQAIGRhAZAc sRzwnmUcsARwBpAIkGQgA1LzHLALgHV0B5EDYCBmCo/zC5EUIjE3HLECQB1gBUDuRiCgCHAfcEwB oCGfG7xBJGtsaTE4MALRafAtMTQ0DfAM0CfDC1lcMTYkgANgILBjBUAtXynnJGcomwwwKWZGA2E6 TyruKWYMggXQaWsfcFP/IHAekCqPK50GYAIwLM8t3BMCIB7geSwjsGViciZ1CsAc8DA5M8AxOQA5 OCA3OjU2IMxQTS9PK51UbzGPLdttEcBjLsAR4EAsgAngQsBTRC5PUkc1fzBeeHViaimhN58t2yQw cmJnH3BzeXMgsCBQYmE5gXVwczsg4AWRbf8HgDOBHRACIAQgAhAFwA2wKHZpYweRJj9AdHLJHvBl ZwiQcz8kZSZdfDM2KGcV0gwBKWYkZSj4UGxlHXAfcAsCAiAegWsfcAUAbwQQcEegBUB0lSEALQQA cEAwSScgUGkXQG9rC4BnQUNAdHTPQTEgMiRlRsBlbwtQH3C3A/AekB9geEsQCIFuQdD9HWBkIHEE ACCwBRBJQT/EP0IpQUMLYD8QBAAvNiBu5RIAdwWwa3MzwABwIADaST9AdUfAKaJzA3AfcH5vHjAd ogpAUABHMhewLv4pQuxIvkBfBbEG4EuhTWX/QZZQUk1lJGVN3R8QT7VRcucBoAhgURFpeD9FVvRL 8YMRwEAQIDUwR0JRcsskZR7iLkrwVWwdEUJh/mwzsUiwIAAnIC7BUTIekf9JQR6QI5Ed4jQQA6AE YCQB/06SB5AEICRlX8AjUUCxCYD7M8AEYXUXQBywCYAHMB3QXxHAGrAHkDPAEgBjXQEofwiQXQBQ kEvSKbFQwEkyQf8DgR7gYDJXxgdwAxAKwFKf/V4BYh9wC4BM8QeQILAgAP8LgDlgRoBNEyAjHNEC IB9wvV8iJwQgZ7AJ8GfRdgbw/nZoZFfGEgAdEElBTaFQUf4vBbFLMASQQOFJQVCwEbDfWRFNZj9j UDEEIHddoAMg/x1xW1YkZWewSTJn7EcAbXP/XpdmBUFDR0I59UbAA2A80r4uQuwp4CZHdnFK8FNe kusHcx2hJyQBYWjBYcF4RH92dC6vdnReg3cqZ7Be0WRPXQF4eCBwLsBAcy8CLtFPsS5hdXYLVEdR QlD/TFEesRdAGrBQNGiRR0J8Vs19E0ADUAngYnN74AWw/md2C0CxHhBqMgIgXbBLdDMdoRHhbGZd AYCLY2T9A2EuVLFC7ELsN3BdIACA/zywBPJnsD0QEfBQYQDAAxH7SCEAwGoFsEcABGA554HY3UuD Il/AiCc5ZiJ/9gbgnmQc8FGBR0IHgXNhPyBfQ18oZxvlRW0W0QCR8AADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAA QAAHMIDuL2MbOL0BQAAIMIDuL2MbOL0BHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAOLp ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD37DB.9B143440-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 17:30:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19432 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:30:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19389 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:30:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@cain.gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA09978 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:00:24 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199802130130.MAA09978@cain.gsoft.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PCI LKM's? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:00:24 +1030 From: "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am trying to convert a static PCI device driver to an LKM, but I can't fiure out how to probe it.. If its an ISA device I run the probe routine with the config info, but for a PCI device I don't know how to tell if it is inthe machine or not after boot time. I tried looking in /usr/src/sys/pci/* for examples, but pcisupport.c was the only thing with any LKM stuff and it didn't help :( Can anyone help me? (I am running 2.2.5-STABLE) --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | |http://www.gsoft.com.au | |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 17:38:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21510 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:38:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21410 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:37:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06400; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:13:46 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199802122013.UAA06400@awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Steve Price cc: ac199@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:06:46 CST." <34E2D7C6.59E2B600@hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:13:45 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [.....] > This brings up another point, whether diffs should be context or > unified. I personally prefer unified diffs but don't want to start > any flame wars. The place that documents how to store the diffs/ > portballs in a PR should also specify (with zero exceptions) diffs > in one format or the other. IMHO, of course. Does it matter ? Surely, as long as you can "patch Steve -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 19:30:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07495 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:30:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07474 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:30:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@HiWAAY.net) Received: from bonsai.hiwaay.net (tnt3-203.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.203]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA06268; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:21:03 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34E3BC84.3F54BC7E@hiwaay.net> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:22:44 -0600 From: Steve Price X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Somers CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP References: <199802122013.UAA06400@awfulhak.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Somers wrote: > > [.....] > > This brings up another point, whether diffs should be context or > > unified. I personally prefer unified diffs but don't want to start > > any flame wars. The place that documents how to store the diffs/ > > portballs in a PR should also specify (with zero exceptions) diffs > > in one format or the other. IMHO, of course. > > Does it matter ? Surely, as long as you can "patch be in any format..... Yes it can be in any format. I happen to prefer unified diffs because they are easier for me to fix tab->space expansions among other things. My personal preference only. > Am I missing something ? No, I just thought since we are going to change the wording to submit diffs via send-pr instead of -hackers that if enough people seemed to prefer uni-diffs over context-diffs that we should all also change that. We (I) will accept diffs in any format. I will do my best to get them all submitted. Human nature dictates that I take the easiest first and public opinion of FreeBSD makes me take the hottest first no matter what form/shape they arrive in. Steve > -- > Brian , , > > Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 19:31:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07655 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:31:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07640 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:31:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@cain.gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA11646 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:34:55 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199802130304.NAA11646@cain.gsoft.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: GGI Probs :) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:34:55 +1030 From: "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Hmm, well it didn't take long - I found a problem :( I get the following when I compile :- ld -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXt -lXext -x -Bshareable -o /ftp/distrib/darius/projects/ggi-0.0.9/lib/libggi/display/dll/X.so visual.o mode.o events.o color.o ld: internal error: RRS relocs exceed allocation 70 Any ideas why? (Yes I realise this isn't much info, but if you want more I can send it) --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | |http://www.gsoft.com.au | |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 19:33:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08003 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:33:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07956 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:33:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from bonsai.hiwaay.net (tnt3-203.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.203]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA11572; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:32:55 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34E3BF4C.FF6D5DF@hiwaay.net> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:34:36 -0600 From: Steve Price X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Handy CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Handy wrote: > > I thought people were starting to lean towards shar archives for this sort > of thing. I certainly dig shar archives, but if the people that actually > have to do the work prefer otherwise, I'd like to know (as one of those > folks who occasionally submit port stuff). I guess the same applies for > patches...I didn't know that was even an issue. It's all about personal preference really. Fortunately I don't think there are as many ways to submit fixes as there are committers, but I could be wrong. :) Bottom line is we would be insane to say that we won't accept patches/ports except in a particalur form. I was merely suggesting a form that I happened to be partial for to get a feel for what other committers thought and to see if there was enough consensus to document that we prefer a certain form but will take anything we can get. So as for the form of the fix, six one way and a half dozen the other. On the other hand, I do feel very strongly that a limit should be put on the amount of clear text that can be submitted before it is required to pass through some form of compression. I don't know what a reasonable limit might be. I do know my connection and its associated bandwidth bites and consequently I don't want to have to spend hours downloading 1Mb of gnats bits everyday. Steve > Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 20:29:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15596 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:29:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tornado.cisco.com (tornado.cisco.com [171.69.104.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15581 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:29:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (bmcgover-pc.cisco.com [171.69.104.147]) by tornado.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA27202; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:28:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10774; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:28:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Message-Id: <199802130428.XAA10774@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> To: mike@dingo.cdrom.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range... Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:28:39 -0500 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> These buffers can be moved by reprogramming the PLX9060 to use a memory >> address on the HOST so long as its visable on the PCI bus. Once this is done, >> the BOARD's CPU will handle transferring the data to these queues, thereby >> eliminating the need for the HOST CPU to copy the data from the board. > >Aha, but what is significant is that once you have set this buffer up >you don't have to again. > Correct >> The question at hand was whether it was 'faster' to have the board transfer >> the data to the HOST's memory, so that a bcopy or b_to_q() call would >> be moving data from HOST memory to HOST memory, or is the gain insufficient, >> and its more prudent to have the HOST CPU move the data from the board >> itself. > >It will definitely be faster to have the board push to host memory. > Any idea on roughly "how much faster"? I realize this is dependant on a lot of things, but I'd hate to spend the time doing it if its going to have a minimal impact. >> The goal is to reduce the HOST CPU time spent moving data around without >> affecting throughput to the board. > >Yup. If you have the data in main memory, you will have to make sure >that your access techniques allow you to exclude the board interfering >while you play with its control structures. > The buffers are circular queues, with head and tail pointers. The firmware on the card is written to avoid overwriting data, so its a matter of just not updating the RX tail pointer or the TX head pointer until the data the host is interested in has been moved to its final resting place. >> There, now that that is said, is the picture any clearer? > >Yes. If host CPU usage is currently an issue, this will reduce the >overheads to a degree. Well, its not an 'issue' per se. 115200 bps costs about 2-3% of the CPU on a PPro 200, including the interrupts, ppp, and an ftp client. After a few ports in operation (since the driver is optimized for the board being flat out), the usage drops to 1-2% per port. The first number is a hair less than a 16550, and the sio driver doesn't seem to improve with a large number of ports in operation. Of course, my goal is 0% CPU utilization, but, I have to give something somewhere... :) Which brings me back to my initial issue. Whats the best way to allocate RAM in the kernel (I'm assuming a malloc call), and then lock the memory down, and determine the PCI address, so I can give it to the card to use? -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 20:37:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17126 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:37:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17101 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@cain.gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA13183 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:07:09 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199802130437.PAA13183@cain.gsoft.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: GGI Problem.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:07:09 +1030 From: "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I fixed the linking problem with libggi by adding the -r flag to the link process.. I am not actually sure what effect it has, and I can't test it since the rest of GGI doesn't exist yet... Anyone feel like enlightening me? :) Now for the kernel stuff.. --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | |http://www.gsoft.com.au | |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 20:38:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17482 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:38:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17408 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:38:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toshok@netscape.com) Received: from dredd.mcom.com (dredd.mcom.com [205.217.237.54]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10090 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:37:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([205.217.243.66]) by dredd.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAA6D44; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:37:50 -0800 Message-ID: <34E3CE26.880FC190@netscape.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:37:58 -0800 From: Chris Toshok X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Another problem with debugging the navigator on FreeBSD2.2-STABLE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So, I've gotten around my complete inability to even *run* gdb on the navigator, but now I've got another problem: When I hit a breakpoint and try to either step or continue, I see: (gdb) c Continuing. Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap. foo_nsFunction (foo=0x0) at foofile.c:192 (gdb) The problem is, the breakpoint is at the same place at which the program just stopped. The only way to get past this breakpoint is to disable the breakpoint and continue. Disabling the breakpoing and stepping doesn't work. It's getting pretty frustrating, trying to debug a large amount of code by setting breakpoints at just about every line of a function and disabling one and then enabling another. Anyone got an idea what could be causing this? Debugging other programs works fine. I would imagine that the size of the program and it's shared libraries is part of the problem, but what can I do to fix it? Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 20:57:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20637 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:57:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smoke.marlboro.vt.us (smoke.marlboro.vt.us [198.206.215.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA20632 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:57:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cgull@smoke.marlboro.vt.us) Received: (from cgull@localhost) by smoke.marlboro.vt.us (8.8.7/8.8.7/cgull) id XAA07319; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:57:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:57:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802130457.XAA07319@smoke.marlboro.vt.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: cgull+usenet-887345169@smoke.marlboro.vt.us (john hood) To: "Andrew Atrens" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: pci-ide-dma side effects In-Reply-To: <199802101859.KAA19606@hub.freebsd.org> References: <199802101859.KAA19606@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.31 under Emacs 19.34.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Atrens writes: > launched X, then ran `Bonnie'. > > What happened next is hard to describe. :) > > My X screen was filled with (for want of a better description) `marching ants'. Mmm. Quite. I don't have much information from your report here. Several questions: 1) Can I get a full description of your FreeBSD-current variant, hardware, boot -v log, and copy of your kernel config for this experiment? And your XF86 startup messages, too, for good measure? 2) If your machine's PCI bus is overclocked (i.e., system bus is at 75 or 83 MHz), try it within manufacturer and PCI specifications. 3) These "marching ants"-- are they transient, or do they leave trails in your screen buffer when disk activity ceases? 3) What happens if you try this without X? --jh -- Mr. Belliveau said, "the difference was the wise, John Hood, cgull intelligent look on the face of the cow." He was @ *so* right. --Ofer Inbar smoke.marlboro.vt.us To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 23:38:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12475 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:38:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12452 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:38:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01675; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:37:53 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199802130737.IAA01675@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-Reply-To: <199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Feb 12, 98 01:54:15 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:37:53 +0100 (MET) Cc: koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > > Q1: How far is FreeBSD willing to go in the direction of ripping out > > portions of its source base? Is it willing to remove files in > > non-games directories? > > If such files reasonably constitute trademark violations, and there is > a real threat of action, then *something* will have to be done, yes. Well, somethings has to be done yes, but we are not in agreement on what should be done, that's life. I think the requests so far has been outright stupid, those games has been in the *BSD tree for years, why are they suddenly so important ? This is just some lawyers trying to make $$, when it gets clear to them that there is NONE, they will find other things to persue pretty quickly. > > Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that > > "violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia? > > Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source > > base to satisfy litigants from other countries? > > It's not a question of "being willing", and this is, I think, where > people are missing the point. > > If the FreeBSD project is faced with litigative action over a trademark > infringement, what courses of action are available? > > - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few > million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark > litigation is rarely started against small parties without some > expectation of success. > > - Give in. I think that one of our biggest problems here is the "affiliation" with Walnut Creek, the legalese people see a company that they can sue for real money. Remember the requests to remove parts of our sources allways came via WC. If we where just a "free" project (which we are, but the world doesn't allways see it right), there would be NO idea in sueing (read NO MONEY to winn). > > Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package > > from anywhere else in the world? > > Obviously, no. You can get them off an old FreeBSD CDROM though. Or you can go to NetBSD and OpenBSD they still have the bits around, they havn't given in (power to them on that account). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 01:08:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26721 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26703 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:08:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28951; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:55:15 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA24724; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:13:12 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id KAA22786; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:06:58 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980213100658.20479@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:06:58 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels References: <199802121944.OAA05915@bual.research.att.com> <8122.887319127@verdi.nethelp.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <8122.887319127@verdi.nethelp.no>; from sthaug@nethelp.no on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 10:32:07PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sthaug@nethelp.no writes: > > If no code is available, > > and there is interest, I may hack something up over the weekend. Cisco has > > their own tunneling protocol (I forget exactly what TLA they use to name it), > > GRE. I believe Linux has support for this (so I heard). Regarding John's opinion of not bothering with SKIP, well... Have you anything better in the meantime that's readily available ? :-) -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- «Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?» - S. Kelly Bootle, ("MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 01:46:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03137 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:46:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03018 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:46:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@panda.hilink.com.au) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA12199; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:45:51 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:45:51 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Philippe Regnauld cc: sthaug@nethelp.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels In-Reply-To: <19980213100658.20479@deepo.prosa.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Regarding John's opinion of not bothering with SKIP, well... > Have you anything better in the meantime that's readily available ? Unencrypted, but it works, is ftp.hilink.com.au:/pub/FreeBSD/ipip.tar.gz Danny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 01:57:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04193 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:57:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from meowy.angio.net (meowy.angio.net [206.197.119.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04188 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:57:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from angio@meowy.angio.net) Received: from meowy.angio.net (localhost.angio.net [127.0.0.1]) by meowy.angio.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA28357; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:57:22 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802130957.CAA28357@meowy.angio.net> To: Damon Permezel cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SHMMAXPGS In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:53:26 CST." <199802110753.BAA01085@damon.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:57:22 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This appears to be due to: > i386/include/vmparam.h:#ifndef SHMMAXPGS > i386/include/vmparam.h:#define SHMMAXPGS 1024 /* XXX until we have more kmap space */ > > It has said this ever since 2.1.6 (as far back as I looked) > > When will we have more kmap space? > Where did it go? > When did they come from? > > Is this limitation still relevant? > Can I just up this? What is the max? XX% of swap? In your kernel config file: options "SHMMAXPGS=XXXX" (At 4k per page, pick a value of XXXX that works for you. I use powers of two, but it may simply be a religious thing. :-) I'm not sure why it's not in LINT for earlier versions, but it works like a charm under modern FreeBSDs. Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 02:25:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07254 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:25:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07212 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:25:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from semen@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from localhost (semen@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA08542; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:26:35 +0600 (NS) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:26:34 +0600 (NS) From: Ustimenko Semen To: grog@lemis.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Wed, 11 February 1998 at 19:51:36 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote: > > Hello! > > > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( As a wrote - it is SDT-7000 realy:) > > It should write 4 Gig on one > > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail > > on near 1 Gig. > > > > The seller tells it works fine under WinNT with 3d Service Pack. > > Is this the only way to make it work? > > No, that's a very bad way to make it work. NT tape support is almost > non-existent. > > You don't say how you determined that you got to the end of the tape. > Programs like dump have their own idea of how big the tape is, and > will stop at this point even if you haven't got to EOT. I don't know > dump, but it should be in the man page. If you're getting this with > tar, something's seriously wrong. I wrote simple program, that fwrite to stdout random seeds, and to stderr - number of written bytes. Then i redirect output of my program to /dev/rst0, and on near 900Kb, program failed to fwrite due to i/o error. After i/o error any operations on /dev/rst0 cause messages from kernel, that it can't write to device. Else: the Cassete was used more than on 3/4. I use DDS-2, it shall ( as noticed) write 4G without and 8G with compression. > > Don't believe the values given for compression, BTW. 2:1 compression > is about best case. You should get 80% or so more on tape with > compression. > > Greg > Sorry for bad English. Thank you To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 02:27:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07561 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:27:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hawk.gnome.co.uk (gnome.gw.cerbernet.co.uk [193.243.224.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07544 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:27:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jacs@hawk.gnome.co.uk) Received: from hawk.gnome.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hawk.gnome.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00814 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:27:36 GMT (envelope-from jacs@hawk.gnome.co.uk) Message-Id: <199802131027.KAA00814@hawk.gnome.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ipfw and www browser problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:27:36 +0000 From: Chris Stenton Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am running FreeBSD stable; last make world and kernel build was 8th Feb. I have been having trouble running Web browsers through my firewall for about a month or so. For some reason when trying to access "certain" web pages I get the following repeated ipfw error. Feb 13 10:09:04 hawk /kernel: ipfw: 1900 Deny TCP 204.162.96.20 193.243.228.133 in via ppp0 Fragment = 97 rule 1900 is 01900 deny log tcp from any to any 87 via ppp0 The error message against the rule does not make any sense to me. Why one particular fragment? Anyone tell me whats wrong? Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 03:56:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14638 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:56:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14632 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:56:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA06190; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:54:36 -0800 (PST) To: Mike Smith cc: A Joseph Koshy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:54:15 PST." <199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:54:36 -0800 Message-ID: <6186.887370876@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's also the fact that the removal of boggle was discussed at least 2 months ago, when the lawyers *first* raised the issue with us. There was so much hullabaloo over it that I just threw my arms up in disgust and dropped the issue entirely - I couldn't find one person who actually PLAYED the friggin' game, mind you, but lots of folks were willing to fight to the very last drop of somebody else's blood over the issue. Anyway, this is now our "2nd warning" from the trademark folks in question and if was over something that even vaguely COUNTED for something (and I'll give the slower students a hint here: /usr/src/games/boggle does not, indeed, count for so much as a cup of lukewarm feline spittle in the overall BSD sense of things), then maybe I'd even consider fighting it or at the very least renaming it to "bogroll" or something but hey, it doesn't - it's a stupid antiquated game that the trademark holders should probably be ashamed of rather than attempting to defend here, OK? If it weren't for the damage to the CVS tree caused by having to actually punt it from the attic, hell, I'd probably even rate its departure as a welcome event! :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 05:49:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26889 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 05:49:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26872; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 05:48:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA06846; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 05:48:50 -0800 (PST) To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:37:53 +0100." <199802130737.IAA01675@sos.freebsd.dk> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 05:48:50 -0800 Message-ID: <6842.887377730@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think that one of our biggest problems here is the "affiliation" > with Walnut Creek, the legalese people see a company that they can > sue for real money. Remember the requests to remove parts of our Actually, we've never even come close to being sued for money (or even threatened with such) during any of these instances. In each and every case, it's been some bored, by-the-book lawyer saying he's representing client blah-blah's trademark interests and would we please cease and desist from saying blah-diddy-blah on our FTP site. They don't want money, they're just playing whack-a-mole here with "trademark violations" and ftp.cdrom.com is a rather large and obvious mole to go after on the net, it doesn't exactly take an Einstein to find us! Our biggest problem... Heh.. You want to know our "biggest problem?" It's the "affiliation" with ftp.cdrom.com and the bazillion search engines out there empowering lawyers like Hasbro's daily in finding "boggle violations" with a few trivial keystrokes. So now what? Would you then propose that we vacate our own flagship machine in order to prevent such problems in the future? Sure, why not, I'll bet the Linux folks would be more than happy to occupy the space we currently take up - heck, that'd free an entire 8GB archive slice for all kinds of new kernels and things! :-) :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 06:30:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01118 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 06:30:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw2.att.com [192.128.133.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA01041 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 06:29:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw2.att.com; Fri Feb 13 08:12 CST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by kcig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id IAA10618 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:17:58 -0600 (CST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <1TCGKGT6>; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:32:04 -0500 Message-ID: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, matthew@netsol.net Subject: RE: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategie s? Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:32:01 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD3862.3E7705A0" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3862.3E7705A0 Content-Type: text/plain The most I did was 6 systems (3 pairs) and 20G of data :-) The idea was the following: there is one backup system. Once a week a full backup is done manually (in meaning that it's necessary to manually insert tapes, kick off the backup scripts and check their results for errors, after that manually put tapes into safe). During the week this system has a tape with ongoing data. We changed this tape once a day (manually, with storing all the tapes unused at the moment in a fireproof safe) by two reasons: 1. In the worst case (like total destruction by fire) we can tolerate loss of one day of data, but better not more. 2. The tape is big enough (DDS-2 120m) to store all data for one day, so we don't need to change it more often. Application explicitly stores the data into a separate hierarchy of directories (the same as the main one). A particular case of that is Oracle archived logs. This second hierarchy gets polled, data transferred as cpio archive to backup server, saved in 2 copies. The backup servers restores this data into its main directory hierarchy, after what passes the cpio archive with server ID added to tape server and initiates removal of backed up data in the backup hierarchy on main server. After that backup server does any necessary additional things to newly received data, like applying Oracle archived logs. The tape servers pours everything it receives into the tape. The reason for explicit second hierarchy is an attempt to reduce overhead of searching for new data and reduce the period of polling. In case when restoration is needed, search the backup log for the latest occurrence of given file name, get its cpio archive name and date of copy, take the tape, restore archive from it (mt fsf is useful with it), and finally restore file from archive. And there was a like but separate technology for archived data that has to be stored for several years. Now I see that they have nothing like in AT&T :-) Although [mostly] batch processing of billing data has different requirements than online operation of a bank. -SB > ---------- > From: matthew@netsol.net[SMTP:matthew@netsol.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 1998 8:05 PM > To: 'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG' > Subject: RE: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & > strategies? > > As many times as you can if all this data may e modified from minutes > ro minutes > matt at Future Lab > > ---------- > From: Mike Smith > Sent: Monday, February 09, 1998 7:56 PM > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Large system backups; recommendations for > devices & strategies? > > > (Please pardon the crosspost to -isp; I'm looking for comments > from > people with experience administering backup strategies for > largish > networks, and I suspect some of you lurk there.) > > I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and > backup > strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB > of > data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less > unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using > Amanda or > similar.) > > I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that's been involved in > > setting up and/or operating such a backup system, as well as > perhaps > being interested in doing something similar for the FreeBSD > project. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message > > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3862.3E7705A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgUOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcCAA0ACQAgAAEABQATAQEggAMADgAAAM4HAgAN AAkAIAACAAUAFAEBCYABACEAAABENDFGMzg4MzM5QTREMTExQUYyMDAwMDBDMEFENzFFRQAQBwEE 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mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 06:47:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03355 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 06:47:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw1.att.com [192.128.133.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA03332 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 06:47:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw1.att.com; Fri Feb 13 08:43 CST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by kcig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id IAA13830 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:34:47 -0600 (CST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <1TCGKGWA>; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:49:10 -0500 Message-ID: To: grog@lemis.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, semen@iclub.nsu.ru Subject: RE: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:49:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Ustimenko Semen[SMTP:semen@iclub.nsu.ru] > > On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > On Wed, 11 February 1998 at 19:51:36 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote: > > > Hello! > > > > > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( > > As a wrote - it is SDT-7000 realy:) > By the way, I can share some experience from using DDS. As I've found there are two major manufacturers of DDS drives: Sony and HP. From others I saw ARCHIVE (?) Viper in ICLs and it is so bad that it does not deserve any discussion, they can not survive even 2 weeks of operation. HP uses OEM Sony drives in their cheap DDS devices designated for PCs, and own HP drives in RISC servers. The latest are more expensive (twice?) but a lot better. The problem with Sony drives is that even with extensive use of cleaning cartridges at some point (like 150-200 full tape backups, with cleaning after each other backup) they come to the point when use of cleaning tape in any amount can't stop the 'need cleaning' light from blinking. Disassembling and cleaning up them manually helps but only for something like 5 full tape backups. HP drives have no such problem, they live a lot longer, and it takes very many backups together with very few cleanings to kill them (yes, I saw dead one, peoples have used it for half a year without any cleaning). -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 07:12:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06552 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:12:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06533 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:12:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nash@Jupiter.Mcs.Net) Received: from Jupiter.Mcs.Net (nash@Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.88]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA05798; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:12:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (nash@localhost) by Jupiter.Mcs.Net (8.8.7/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA25832; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:11:59 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:11:59 -0600 (CST) From: Alex Nash To: Chris Stenton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw and www browser problem In-Reply-To: <199802131027.KAA00814@hawk.gnome.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Chris Stenton wrote: > Feb 13 10:09:04 hawk /kernel: ipfw: 1900 Deny TCP 204.162.96.20 > 193.243.228.133 in via ppp0 Fragment = 97 > > rule 1900 is > > 01900 deny log tcp from any to any 87 via ppp0 > > > The error message against the rule does not make any sense to me. Why one > particular fragment? Any fragmented packet (except the first fragment) which makes it to this rule will be stopped due to a bug in ipfw. The problem, put simply, is that ipfw ignored the port specification because it didn't have the information in the framgneted packet. Your options are: - upgrade to the latest -stable or -current - try and hand merge the fix committed to sys/netinet/ip_fw.c into your tree - add a 'frag' rule somewhere before rule 1900, here's an example: ipfw add 1899 allow ip from any to any frag Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 07:46:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10422 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:46:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10361 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:45:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nash@Jupiter.Mcs.Net) Received: from Jupiter.Mcs.Net (nash@Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.88]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA07655; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:45:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (nash@localhost) by Jupiter.Mcs.Net (8.8.7/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA26457; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:45:15 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:45:15 -0600 (CST) From: Alex Nash To: Chris Stenton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw and www browser problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Alex Nash wrote: > Any fragmented packet (except the first fragment) which makes it to this > rule will be stopped due to a bug in ipfw. I should clarify that further: Any fragmented packet (except the first fragment) which is TCP *and* comes in via ppp0 will be denied. Fragmented UDP packets and fragments coming in over other interfaces will not match. Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 08:02:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12410 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:02:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12287 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:01:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from bonsai.hiwaay.net (tnt2-46.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.46]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA22652; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:00:12 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34E46E74.31DFF4F5@hiwaay.net> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:01:56 -0600 From: Steve Price X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Vanderhoek CC: Brian Handy , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Limit on PR clear-text size (was Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > > 15-20KB, give or take 5, clear-text, seems reasonable to me. > > The maximum listed for inclusion in a pr is 65KB (see > submitters.sgml). I choose that based on previous sizes around > which I complained. It would be quite reasonable still at > ~30-40KB. The maximum message size on FreeBSD-list is 100KB. > > Lower, higher, or good? 15-20KB sounds good. Granted most will not be this big, but a good example of one that would have been (had it been send-pr'd) was Terry's latest batch of patches. Steve > -- > Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! > tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 08:05:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12889 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:05:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12740; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:04:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA13619; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:50:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:50:16 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Terry Lambert cc: owensc@enc.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux In-Reply-To: <199802122247.PAA02917@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Our long-term goal is to work with various communities (such as FreeBSD, > > Linux) to come up with a generalized authentication extension available to > > distributed file systems (such as AFS, CFS) for associating tokens or > > priveledges with a set of processes, not just with a UID. Those of you > > familiar with AFS will know that if you have two incoming telnets, one can > > have rights to the file system while the other does not, depending on > > whether you have klog'd or not. There are numerous reasons for having > > such a service -- for example, it would be nice if daemons running as root > > did not have access to the same file system as a root shell elsewhere, > > etc. > > Not the least of which is UNIX NetWare and SMB client filesystems, and > file and directory level security (password protection). > > > This is a general issue with credentials on UNIX systems, and on > the implementation of connection level authentication instead of > transaction level authentication in general (protocols developed > for single user machines typically do not consider the problem of > how to proxy multiple credentials over a single connection). > > A general implementation requires the ability to have the kernel > call back into user space to ask the user questions, like "what is > your SMB password?". > ... Terry, Thanks for your response. My thoughts on the issue had been somewhat limited to a smaller scope -- those services specifically required for Coda, for example. One issue I have not yet resolved in my mind is how appropriate use of credentials will be determined. This becomes an issue in the case of multi-realm Coda (or AFS) -- which credentials do you present to a realm? - Multi-realm AFS allows remote realm identities to establish a local identity for the purpose of being included in local ACLs, etc. Multi-realm AFS also allows anonymous, unauthenticated access (for situations where a user does not have a local identity). How does the credential manager know which identity(ies) to offer? In the case of Coda/AFS there are some clear possibilities: 1. If you have an identity for realm (x) in your credential cache, provide that to the remote realm. 2. If you have an identity for another realm (y) but not for the realm itself, use that identity. 3. If you have no identity, attempt unauthenticated access. The problem occurs primarily because Authorization requires first Authentication, so you cannot do much with authorizing anonymous users (other than treat them as a class, which is allowed in AFS). Cross-realm tokens in AFS do complicate things. I'd like to try and come up with a fairly clean general solution to that problem in Coda, and am currently still in the brain-storming stage (this is especially the case since there ios no multi-realm Coda as-yet :). The end solution is really to have the user indicate how any credentials may be used, and have a strictly followed set of rules for how they can be used. Especially in the case of SMB/etc it is desirable to avoid sending the wrong credentials to the wrong place :). If a general-purpose credential manager is available, the user must be able to determine how the credentials are used. This is especially true in the event that a password is provided as a credential (as opposed to a token or authenticator). I might wish to indicate a credential was for use with Coda, or for IPsec, etc. This is further complicated by the fact that Coda and AFS both have a user-land daemon, Venus, which actually manages the connections. It maintains a pool of RPC bindings for each authenticated identity (for parallelism). Currently it uses the UID of the process (provided to Venus by /dev/cfs0) to determine which credentials to use (and which bindings, if currently available). In the new arrangement, presumably user-level Venus would (somehow) be provided access to the credentials associated with the PAG of the requesting process, but only those credentials provided for use with Coda. How would one indicate that the Coda-related Venus processes were allowed to have access to those credentials? Possibly through using a specific UNIX uid/gid mapping to protect access to /dev/cfs0, and then a mapping to allow "Coda" credentials to be passed to the Venus userid? Is the PAG an appropriate mechanism for grouping credentials with processes? What are the semantics for a PAG? The ones discussed thus far are similar to process-group semantics in many ways: - By default, a process is in the PAG of its parent - A process may choose to create a new PAG, of which only it is initially a member. - Any process may adjust the credentials of the current PAG (is this desirable?), including destruction of all associated credentials. - PAG is preserved across setuid binary execution, as well as the setuid syscall Presumably a source of PAG credentials could be Kerberos, etc. Both the kernel and user-processes might need access to these credentials. These processes might or might not be in the PAG of the process requiring the service. Examples of interesting processes: SSH Client -- similar to retrieval of user's private key (storing it in a credential manager might be more useful than in a file in their home directory -- especially if they require tokens to get to that file :). The SSH client would be in the PAG. Venus -- to access files using the identity of the user, it would require access to credentials provided specifically for that task, but no other muck up credential-handling. IPsec -- as user-to-user authentication is not forbidden by IPsec semantics, but the kernel provides IPsec services at the protocol level. As such, the kernel might need access to the user's IPsec credentials. SMBfs -- this might be implemented as a user-level process (such as Venus), or as a kernel-level service. In either case, it would have to match credentials for NT domains, specific servers, etc. This is just part of the initial hash-through of the issue thus far. I will go take a look at the back-archives from the smbfs discussion later today. Thanks, Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 08:13:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14637 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:13:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14590 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:12:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA07233; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:27:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:27:01 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Steve Price cc: Brian Handy , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP In-Reply-To: <34E3BF4C.FF6D5DF@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Steve Price wrote: > On the other hand, I do feel very strongly that a limit should be > put on the amount of clear text that can be submitted before it is > required to pass through some form of compression. I don't know > what a reasonable limit might be. I do know my connection and its 15-20KB, give or take 5, clear-text, seems reasonable to me. The maximum listed for inclusion in a pr is 65KB (see submitters.sgml). I choose that based on previous sizes around which I complained. It would be quite reasonable still at ~30-40KB. The maximum message size on FreeBSD-list is 100KB. Lower, higher, or good? -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 08:50:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA17781 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:50:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.linkdesign.com (relay.linkdesign.com [194.42.128.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17669 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:49:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michael@linkdesign.com) Received: from cyprus.vds.linkdesign.com (host49.bln.de [194.162.193.205]) by relay.linkdesign.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA27484 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:12:12 +0200 (EET) Received: (from michael@localhost) by cyprus.vds.linkdesign.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02853; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:12:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Michael.Bielicki@linkdesign.com) Message-ID: <19980213171200.09165@vds.linkdesign.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:12:00 +0100 From: Michael Bielicki To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: how to install tk-8.0.2 on current Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Folks, I can´t seem to be able to install the tk8 port on CURRENT. It allways tries to install tcl 8.0.2. Is there a patch for the port so it stops doing this and finds the included tcl stuff in CURRENT ?? Thanks Michael -- Michael Bielicki Buisnetco Telecom. Ltd. Link Design International Ltd. 13 Iras Str., Office 23 65, Cliff Rd, Tramore Nicosia 1061, Cyprus http://www.linkdesign.com Co. Waterford, Ireland Voice: +357-2-362 421 Voice: +353-51-386921 Fax: +357-2-362 429 We use FreeBSD Fax: +353-51-390880 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 09:12:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20739 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:12:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA20658 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:12:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0y3NiA-0004bp-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:11:34 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA06143; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:10:45 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802131610.JAA06143@harmony.village.org> To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations Cc: Greg Lehey , A Joseph Koshy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:03:22 PST." <199802122303.PAA04588@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199802122303.PAA04588@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:10:45 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199802122303.PAA04588@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes: : Are you willing to fund the FreeBSD Project's defence against a : trademark litigation case pursued by Hasbro? Hasbro is notorious for fighting tooth and nail for their trademarks, even when they don't have much of a case. Witness all the money that Clue Computing has spent on legal defence of clue.com. Unless there is someone that wants to step in and fund the legal defence of the FreeBSD stuff, I hate to say it, but killing stuff from the tree is cheaper and easier. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 10:20:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02655 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:20:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02614 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA24207 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:16:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd024201; Fri Feb 13 10:15:58 1998 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:12:10 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fast router code. (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I thought I would forward a comment from the author of the fast router code mentionned here a few days ago. julian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:45:53 +0200 (EET) From: Stefan Nilsson To: Julian Elischer Cc: Gunnar Karlsson Subject: Re: fast router code. On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > your project was recently publicised in the FreeBSD forums. > > Do you have any comparative speed numbers comparing the > speed of your trie based system with the radix-tree > based system used in BSD4.4 based systems? No, we haven't done such a comparison yet and I just realize that we faile to give a reference to this implementation. We'll certainly fix that in the final version of the paper. I haven't looked at the code for the BSD algorithm and don't know how hard it would be do to an actual experimental comparison. However, from what I've read about the BSD algorithm it should be very similar to ours. It's also based on a trie (Patricia tree), it uses path compression but not level compression. In fact, if you turn off the level compression from our implementation you loose a factor 5 in speed and the depth of the structure increases from 2 to 20. Hence my guess is that, using level compression as suggested in our paper, it possible to improve the BSD algorithm by a factor of at least 5. Stefan -- Stefan Nilsson Department of Computer Science +358 9 4514850 tel Helsinki University of Technology +358 9 4513293 fax P.O. Box 1100, FIN-02015 HUT www.cs.hut.fi/~sni Finland To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 11:18:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12423 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:18:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (root@cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12309; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:17:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02592; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:15:17 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:15:17 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= cc: Mike Smith , koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-Reply-To: <199802130737.IAA01675@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: > I think the requests so far has been outright stupid, those games has > been in the *BSD tree for years, why are they suddenly so important ? Probably because the trademark owners just discovered the violation. > This is just some lawyers trying to make $$, when it gets clear to > them that there is NONE, they will find other things to persue > pretty quickly. You don't appear to have any understanding of trademark law whatsoever. Money is not the issue here. If a trademark owner discovers someone wrongly using his trademark and he does not take action to stop it, he risks loosing the trademark. Thus, a trademark owner is basically obliged to ask misusers to desist, and even sue them if they refuse. If you don't like this state of things, you should be trying to change US trademark law, not blaming the trademark owner, who is simply doing what trademark law insists that he do. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 11:30:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16316 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:30:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16309; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:30:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gozer@ludd.luth.se) Received: from sister.ludd.luth.se (gozer@sister.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA29015; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:29:45 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:29:44 +0100 (MET) From: Johan Larsson To: Dmitrij Tejblum cc: FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Fat32 In-Reply-To: <199802111228.PAA03112@tejblum.dnttm.rssi.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Dmitrij Tejblum wrote: > Johan Larsson wrote: > > What happened to this? Is there any development going on? Or did it just > > die? It would be very nice to see it in current. I am running this just > > now, and it seems to work fine. How much testing would it require before > > it gets commited. > > I hope you seen the discussion in the other thread on -current, so you > know answers to the questions. But please tell me: do you have FAT32 or > VFAT? If FAT32, you are the first man in the world, who mounted a FAT32 > partition on FreeBSD :-) Well, now i have mounted a fat32 partition under freebsd, and it seems to work just fine!! :-) I must say that if not the msdosfs-netbsd.diff don't get in to -current i will be extremely disappointed :) Johan -- * mailto:gozer@ludd.luth.se * http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/gozer/ * * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 11:31:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16982 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:31:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (uucp@osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA16960 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:31:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA29210 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:30:11 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA11890; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:26:10 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802131726.SAA11890@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-Reply-To: <199802131610.JAA06143@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Feb 13, 98 09:10:45 am" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:26:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Warner Losh wrote... > In message <199802122303.PAA04588@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes: > : Are you willing to fund the FreeBSD Project's defence against a > : trademark litigation case pursued by Hasbro? > > Hasbro is notorious for fighting tooth and nail for their trademarks, > even when they don't have much of a case. Witness all the money that > Clue Computing has spent on legal defence of clue.com. Unless there > is someone that wants to step in and fund the legal defence of the > FreeBSD stuff, I hate to say it, but killing stuff from the tree is > cheaper and easier. *very deep sigh* I have no problems with people defending their rights, but the (I'm sorry to say it) American tradition of 'CU in court' over nitpicking stuff is hilarious at best and frustrating at worst. My problem with it is, as Warner already indicates, that the party with the best lawyer (read: most $$ to burn) will in all likelihood win the case. For a start, the party who is less equipped with $$ will probably settle without even trying to win in court. The issue who is right or wrong is irrelevant. What will FreeBSD Inc do if say a big company near Seattle sues FreeBSD Inc for something? Theoretical maybe (probably ;-) but the case is clear: no way the 'Chuck defense team' would ever win. No $$ to burn. > Warner Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 11:49:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21849 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:49:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA21016 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:46:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from pedro.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.38]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA362; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:48:03 +0500 Message-ID: <34E4A289.2781E494@asme.org> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:44:09 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wilko Bulte CC: Warner Losh , mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations References: <199802131726.SAA11890@yedi.iaf.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wilko Bulte wrote: > .. > > My problem with it is, as Warner already indicates, that the party > with the best lawyer (read: most $$ to burn) will in all likelihood > win the case. For a start, the party who is less equipped with $$ > will probably settle without even trying to win in court. The issue > who is right or wrong is irrelevant. > While I was using AIX 4.1.3, I noticed they include some of the BSD games (very happily I enjoyed fortune on a different box :). Why not include the games that come with AIX and wait for IBM's lawyers to defend us in case of an eventuality ? I guess we could port the rest from an OpenBSD repository...just a suggestion, I miss them, but they don't really belong with the kernel. Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:14:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08979 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:14:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08943 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:14:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA09909; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:14:01 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA05802; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:14:01 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980213221400.47211@follo.net> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:14:00 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Steve Price , Brian Somers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP References: <199802122013.UAA06400@awfulhak.org> <34E3BC84.3F54BC7E@hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <34E3BC84.3F54BC7E@hiwaay.net>; from Steve Price on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 09:22:44PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 09:22:44PM -0600, Steve Price wrote: [... on diff formats ...] > Yes it can be in any format. I happen to prefer unified diffs > because they are easier for me to fix tab->space expansions among > other things. My personal preference only. I strongly prefer unified diffs. They make it much easier to see the changes on a detailed level (for me, at least). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:20:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10229 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:20:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coleridge.kublai.com (coleridge.kublai.com [207.96.1.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10164 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:20:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.kublai.com) Received: from natasya.kublai.com (natasya.kublai.com [207.172.25.236]) by coleridge.kublai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28548; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:19:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.kublai.com) Received: (from shmit@localhost) by natasya.kublai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12030; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:19:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19980213161925.17591@erols.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:19:25 -0500 From: Brian Cully To: Chris Toshok Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Another problem with debugging the navigator on FreeBSD2.2-STABLE Reply-To: shmit@erols.com References: <34E3CE26.880FC190@netscape.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <34E3CE26.880FC190@netscape.com>; from Chris Toshok on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 08:37:58PM -0800 X-Sender: If your mailer pays attention to this, it's broken. X-PGP-Info: finger shmit@panix.com for my public key. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On %M %N, Chris Toshok wrote: > Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap. > foo_nsFunction (foo=0x0) at foofile.c:192 > (gdb) Every time I have this problem it's because I've clobbered the stack. -- Brian Cully ``And when one of our comrades was taken prisoner, blindfolded, hung upside-down, shot, and burned, we thought to ourselves, `These are the best experiences of our lives''' -Pathology (Joe Frank, Somewhere Out There) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:43:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15088 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:43:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA15007 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:43:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:43:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04110; Fri, 13 Feb 98 16:43:01 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA21932; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:42:32 -0500 Message-Id: <19980213164231.23272@ct.picker.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:42:31 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: "mount /dev/fd0 /" == REBOOT! (?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG mount /dev/fd0 / I was surprised when the above command rebooted my machine. Is this correct behavior? This is on 3.0-971208-SNAP BTW. I'd missed a char and meant to specify "/a" for the mount point. Shouldn't the above command just fail since / is already mounted? Randall Hopper To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:45:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15574 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:45:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15450 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:44:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA10233; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:38:56 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA05895; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:38:56 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980213223855.57297@follo.net> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:38:55 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Daniel O'Connor" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GGI Problem.. References: <199802130437.PAA13183@cain.gsoft.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199802130437.PAA13183@cain.gsoft.com.au>; from Daniel O'Connor on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 03:07:09PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 03:07:09PM +1030, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > Well, I fixed the linking problem with libggi by adding the -r flag to the > link process.. I am not actually sure what effect it has, and I can't test it > since the rest of GGI doesn't exist yet... > > Anyone feel like enlightening me? :) (From memory of the man page). -r makes ld create a new object file, suitable for another pass through ld. This is useful together with symorder to restrict symbol exposure at some points in the link process. You're not getting an executable, though - you're getting an object that isn't finished with linking. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:47:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16101 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:47:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16096 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12405; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:47:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd012309; Fri Feb 13 14:47:01 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07390; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:46:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802132146.OAA07390@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:46:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802131610.JAA06143@harmony.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Feb 13, 98 09:10:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > : Are you willing to fund the FreeBSD Project's defence against a > : trademark litigation case pursued by Hasbro? > > Hasbro is notorious for fighting tooth and nail for their trademarks, > even when they don't have much of a case. Witness all the money that > Clue Computing has spent on legal defence of clue.com. Unless there > is someone that wants to step in and fund the legal defence of the > FreeBSD stuff, I hate to say it, but killing stuff from the tree is > cheaper and easier. Renaming it is cheaper still, since it doesn't require clobbering it in the attic. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:57:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18154 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA18137 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:57:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA31543; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:57:06 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:57:06 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Syquest SparQ drives Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ...Anybody play with one of these yet? Looks like a newer faster cheaper version of the Jaz drives -- 1GB, faster and more bandwidth than the Jaz. However, right now only available in Parallel Port and EIDE. $200 for the drive, $33/each for the media. http://www.syquest.com/products/m_sparq.html Any speculation as to whether these bad boys will work in FreeBSD? Can we speak EIDE to these? Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 14:00:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18719 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:00:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18686 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:00:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18290; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:00:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd018261; Fri Feb 13 15:00:02 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07045; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:41:05 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802132141.OAA07045@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:41:05 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <6186.887370876@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 13, 98 03:54:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anyway, this is now our "2nd warning" from the trademark folks in > question and if was over something that even vaguely COUNTED for > something (and I'll give the slower students a hint here: > /usr/src/games/boggle does not, indeed, count for so much as a cup of > lukewarm feline spittle in the overall BSD sense of things), then > maybe I'd even consider fighting it or at the very least renaming it > to "bogroll" or something but hey, it doesn't - it's a stupid > antiquated game that the trademark holders should probably be ashamed > of rather than attempting to defend here, OK? If it weren't for the > damage to the CVS tree caused by having to actually punt it from the > attic, hell, I'd probably even rate its departure as a welcome event! :-) Someone with commit priviledges needs to rename it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 14:53:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25205 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:53:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25165 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:52:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05676; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:48:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802132248.OAA05676@rah.star-gate.com> To: Terry Lambert cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), mike@smith.net.au, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:41:05 GMT." <199802132141.OAA07045@usr02.primenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5673.887410113.1@rah> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:48:34 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG While we at it, why not rename the games directory to ports/antiques-games? I really don't see the point of having the games directory as part of the base install. For the lamers that want fortune or xzy game they can install it as an addon package . Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 15:07:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28023 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:07:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27943; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:06:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04969; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:06:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802132306.PAA04969@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:37:53 +0100." <199802130737.IAA01675@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:06:26 -0800 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA27945 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > > > > Q1: How far is FreeBSD willing to go in the direction of ripping out > > > portions of its source base? Is it willing to remove files in > > > non-games directories? > > > > If such files reasonably constitute trademark violations, and there is > > a real threat of action, then *something* will have to be done, yes. > > Well, somethings has to be done yes, but we are not in agreement on > what should be done, that's life. Typical. 8) > I think the requests so far has been outright stupid, those games has > been in the *BSD tree for years, why are they suddenly so important ? Because of the way trademark law works. You don't appear to have understood this yet. > I think that one of our biggest problems here is the "affiliation" > with Walnut Creek, the legalese people see a company that they can > sue for real money. No. What Hasbro care about is being able to sell Boggle on the strength of its name. If they don't pursue *everyone* violating the trademark, they lose it. As soon as they lose it, there are dozens of offshore companies that will start marketting Boggle clones, eating Hasbro's market, and hitting their bottom line. _That_ is the issue here. > Remember the requests to remove parts of our > sources allways came via WC. If we where just a "free" project > (which we are, but the world doesn't allways see it right), there > would be NO idea in sueing (read NO MONEY to winn). I can't heap enough scorn on this perspective, so I won't. Suffice to say that you're completely wrong. > > > Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package > > > from anywhere else in the world? > > > > Obviously, no. You can get them off an old FreeBSD CDROM though. > > Or you can go to NetBSD and OpenBSD they still have the bits around, > they havn't given in (power to them on that account). There are a couple of ways you can explain this: - Neither OpenBSD nor NetBSD have reached the 'visibility threshold' where it becomes a legal necessity to pursue the issue. - The aforementioned camps think that there is some moral value in "being tough". It's not my place to judge them publically. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 15:25:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01653 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:25:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01623 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:25:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22808; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:55:06 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA04952; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:54:55 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980214095454.51602@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:54:54 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, semen@iclub.nsu.ru Subject: Re: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from sbabkin@dcn.att.com on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 09:49:09AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 9:49:09 -0500, sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote: > >> ---------- >> From: Ustimenko Semen[SMTP:semen@iclub.nsu.ru] >> >> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 11 February 1998 at 19:51:36 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote: >>>> Hello! >>>> >>>> I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( >> >> As a wrote - it is SDT-7000 realy:) >> > By the way, I can share some experience from using DDS. As I've > found there are two major manufacturers of DDS drives: Sony and > HP. From others I saw ARCHIVE (?) Viper in ICLs and it is so bad > that it does not deserve any discussion, they can not survive > even 2 weeks of operation. This presumably demonstrates the usefulness of ICLs. As I have frequently reported on this list, I had nothing but trouble with HP DDS-1 drives. I had 4 of them, and they lived between 5 and 8 months. That changed when I got an HP DDS-2 drive, which lasted over a year. I've been using an Archive changer now for 15 months, and haven't had any trouble (although I'm beginning to wonder if the original topic isn't biting me too: I'm only getting 2.7 GB on a 90m tape, too much for no compression and very little for compression). > HP uses OEM Sony drives in their cheap DDS devices designated for > PCs, and own HP drives in RISC servers. The latest are more expensive > (twice?) but a lot better. This is news to me. Which model numbers? > The problem with Sony drives is that even with extensive use of > cleaning cartridges at some point (like 150-200 full tape backups, > with cleaning after each other backup) they come to the point when > use of cleaning tape in any amount can't stop the 'need cleaning' > light from blinking. Disassembling and cleaning up them manually > helps but only for something like 5 full tape backups. HP drives > have no such problem, they live a lot longer, and it takes very many > backups together with very few cleanings to kill them (yes, I saw > dead one, peoples have used it for half a year without any > cleaning). I did that once on my first DDS-1 drive--it came without instructions, and nobody knew it needed cleaning. It didn't do any better or any worse than the other ones, which I *did* clean. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:09:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11918 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:09:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11726; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:07:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22873; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:34:55 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA05301; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:34:54 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980214103454.41822@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:34:54 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith , sos@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations References: <199802130737.IAA01675@sos.freebsd.dk> <199802132306.PAA04969@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802132306.PAA04969@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 03:06:26PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 15:06:26 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > What Hasbro care about is being able to sell Boggle on the strength > of its name. If they don't pursue *everyone* violating the trademark, > they lose it. As soon as they lose it, there are dozens of offshore > companies that will start marketting Boggle clones, eating Hasbro's > market, and hitting their bottom line. > > _That_ is the issue here. Is this all they're asking? A name change would solve that. This sounds very different from the issue with Tetris a few months back. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:13:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12858 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA12846 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:13:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0y3VDu-0004rf-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:12:50 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA09317; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:13:19 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802140013.RAA09317@harmony.village.org> To: Wilko Bulte Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:26:10 +0100." <199802131726.SAA11890@yedi.iaf.nl> References: <199802131726.SAA11890@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:13:19 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199802131726.SAA11890@yedi.iaf.nl> Wilko Bulte writes: : What will FreeBSD Inc do if say a big company near Seattle sues : FreeBSD Inc for something? Theoretical maybe (probably ;-) but : the case is clear: no way the 'Chuck defense team' would ever win. : No $$ to burn. I'm sure that lots of people would come out of the woodwork to support almost any of the *BSDs that get sued by said company... I know that I would. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:14:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13178 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:14:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13059 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:13:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22859; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:22:42 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA05094; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:22:41 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980214102241.18021@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:22:41 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Ustimenko Semen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Ustimenko Semen on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 04:26:34PM +0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 16:26:34 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote: > On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Wed, 11 February 1998 at 19:51:36 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote: >>> Hello! >>> >>> I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:( > > As a wrote - it is SDT-7000 realy:) > >>> It should write 4 Gig on one >>> DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail >>> on near 1 Gig. >>> >>> The seller tells it works fine under WinNT with 3d Service Pack. >>> Is this the only way to make it work? >> >> No, that's a very bad way to make it work. NT tape support is almost >> non-existent. >> >> You don't say how you determined that you got to the end of the tape. >> Programs like dump have their own idea of how big the tape is, and >> will stop at this point even if you haven't got to EOT. I don't know >> dump, but it should be in the man page. If you're getting this with >> tar, something's seriously wrong. > > I wrote simple program, that fwrite to stdout random seeds, and to stderr > - number of written bytes. > Then i redirect output of my program to /dev/rst0, and on near 900Kb, > program failed to fwrite due to i/o error. After i/o error any operations > on /dev/rst0 cause messages from kernel, that it can't write to device. > Else: the Cassete was used more than on 3/4. Well, I'm sure you could rewind and try again. > I use DDS-2, it shall ( as noticed) write 4G without and 8G with > compression. Can you send me the program? You can put it on ftp://ftp.lemis.com/incoming. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:21:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14696 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:21:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14621; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:20:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA05151; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:18:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd005148; Fri Feb 13 16:18:33 1998 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:14:45 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-Reply-To: <19980214103454.41822@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think our policy should be to change the name of the program in question. this includes changing history.. a global replace in the ,v files would probably fix it. after renaming theh appropriate files, it should all still work but with a different name, even versions checked out with -D "last year". On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 15:06:26 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > What Hasbro care about is being able to sell Boggle on the strength > > of its name. If they don't pursue *everyone* violating the trademark, > > they lose it. As soon as they lose it, there are dozens of offshore > > companies that will start marketting Boggle clones, eating Hasbro's > > market, and hitting their bottom line. > > > > _That_ is the issue here. > > Is this all they're asking? A name change would solve that. This > sounds very different from the issue with Tetris a few months back. > > Greg > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:35:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17065 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:35:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16983; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:35:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05480; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:33:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802140033.QAA05480@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:34:54 +1030." <19980214103454.41822@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:33:56 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 15:06:26 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > What Hasbro care about is being able to sell Boggle on the strength > > of its name. If they don't pursue *everyone* violating the trademark, > > they lose it. As soon as they lose it, there are dozens of offshore > > companies that will start marketting Boggle clones, eating Hasbro's > > market, and hitting their bottom line. > > > > _That_ is the issue here. > > Is this all they're asking? A name change would solve that. This > sounds very different from the issue with Tetris a few months back. The current issue with Hasbro is over the name. The Tetris precedent makes it prudent to remove the entire game, in order to save the effort of dealing with it later. If there was any real utility to boggle in the first place, a name change would be fine. As it is, nuking it is simpler and faster. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:36:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17379 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:36:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17353 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:36:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05504; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:35:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802140035.QAA05504@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Warner Losh cc: Wilko Bulte , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:13:19 MST." <199802140013.RAA09317@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:35:35 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In message <199802131726.SAA11890@yedi.iaf.nl> Wilko Bulte writes: > : What will FreeBSD Inc do if say a big company near Seattle sues > : FreeBSD Inc for something? Theoretical maybe (probably ;-) but > : the case is clear: no way the 'Chuck defense team' would ever win. > : No $$ to burn. > > I'm sure that lots of people would come out of the woodwork to support > almost any of the *BSDs that get sued by said company... I know that > I would. I'm sure they would, if the cause was reasonable. Would you bankrupt yourself for such a trivial cause as a clone of a stupid word-guessing game? Is it worth that much to you? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:39:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18255 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:39:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18198; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:38:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22915; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:08:37 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA05484; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:08:36 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980214110836.27959@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:08:36 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations References: <19980214103454.41822@freebie.lemis.com> <199802140033.QAA05480@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802140033.QAA05480@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 04:33:56PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 16:33:56 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 15:06:26 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>> What Hasbro care about is being able to sell Boggle on the strength >>> of its name. If they don't pursue *everyone* violating the trademark, >>> they lose it. As soon as they lose it, there are dozens of offshore >>> companies that will start marketting Boggle clones, eating Hasbro's >>> market, and hitting their bottom line. >>> >>> _That_ is the issue here. >> >> Is this all they're asking? A name change would solve that. This >> sounds very different from the issue with Tetris a few months back. > > The current issue with Hasbro is over the name. The Tetris precedent > makes it prudent to remove the entire game, in order to save the effort > of dealing with it later. > > If there was any real utility to boggle in the first place, a name > change would be fine. As it is, nuking it is simpler and faster. How about asking for volunteers to do the work? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:49:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19745 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:49:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA19682 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:48:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0y3Vls-0004tE-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:47:56 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA09550; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:48:26 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802140048.RAA09550@harmony.village.org> To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations Cc: Wilko Bulte , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:35:35 PST." <199802140035.QAA05504@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199802140035.QAA05504@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:48:26 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199802140035.QAA05504@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes: : Would you bankrupt yourself for such a trivial cause as a clone of a : stupid word-guessing game? Is it worth that much to you? Nope. Boggle can die the big death as far as I'm concerned. Now, if someone went after FreeBSD for a significant part of the kernel... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:51:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20218 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:51:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20198 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:51:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22973; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:21:07 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA05577; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:21:06 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980214112105.05348@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:21:05 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Chris Toshok , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Another problem with debugging the navigator on FreeBSD2.2-STABLE References: <34E3CE26.880FC190@netscape.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <34E3CE26.880FC190@netscape.com>; from Chris Toshok on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 08:37:58PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 February 1998 at 20:37:58 -0800, Chris Toshok wrote: > So, I've gotten around my complete inability to even *run* gdb on the > navigator, but now I've got another problem: When I hit a breakpoint > and try to either step or continue, I see: > > (gdb) c > Continuing. > > Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap. > foo_nsFunction (foo=0x0) at foofile.c:192 > (gdb) > > The problem is, the breakpoint is at the same place at which the program > just stopped. The only way to get past this breakpoint is to disable > the breakpoint and continue. Disabling the breakpoing and stepping > doesn't work. It should do. Are you sure that this is the real problem? > It's getting pretty frustrating, trying to debug a large amount of code > by setting breakpoints at just about every line of a function and > disabling one and then enabling another. > > Anyone got an idea what could be causing this? Debugging other > programs works fine. I would imagine that the size of the program > and it's shared libraries is part of the problem, but what can I do > to fix it? Good question. Can you give me a binary to look at? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:56:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21624 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:56:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21611 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:56:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id AAA11116; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:55:46 GMT Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:55:46 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fast router code. (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually, the 4.4BSD implementation is a radix trie (Try-ee), you can read about it in "Algorithms for C", by Robert Sedgewick. It is not a Patricia Tree as mentioned in one of Stevens books. Mike Hancock On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > I thought I would forward a comment from the author of the > fast router code mentionned here a few days ago. > > julian > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:45:53 +0200 (EET) > From: Stefan Nilsson > To: Julian Elischer > Cc: Gunnar Karlsson > Subject: Re: fast router code. > > On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > your project was recently publicised in the FreeBSD forums. > > > > Do you have any comparative speed numbers comparing the > > speed of your trie based system with the radix-tree > > based system used in BSD4.4 based systems? > > No, we haven't done such a comparison yet and I just > realize that we faile to give a reference > to this implementation. We'll certainly fix that > in the final version of the paper. > > I haven't looked at the code for the BSD algorithm > and don't know how hard it would be do to an actual > experimental comparison. > However, from what I've read about the BSD algorithm > it should be very similar to ours. It's also based on > a trie (Patricia tree), it uses path compression but > not level compression. In fact, if you turn off the > level compression from our implementation you loose > a factor 5 in speed and the depth of the structure > increases from 2 to 20. > > Hence my guess is that, using level compression > as suggested in our paper, it possible to improve > the BSD algorithm by a factor of at least 5. > > Stefan > -- > Stefan Nilsson > Department of Computer Science +358 9 4514850 tel > Helsinki University of Technology +358 9 4513293 fax > P.O. Box 1100, FIN-02015 HUT www.cs.hut.fi/~sni > Finland > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 17:01:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22413 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:01:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pat.idi.ntnu.no (0@pat.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.103.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22394 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:01:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Tor.Egge@idi.ntnu.no) Received: from idi.ntnu.no (tegge@presis.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.111.173]) by pat.idi.ntnu.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27177; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 02:00:55 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802140100.CAA27177@pat.idi.ntnu.no> To: rhh@ct.picker.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "mount /dev/fd0 /" == REBOOT! (?) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:42:31 -0500" References: <19980213164231.23272@ct.picker.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.70 on Emacs 19.34.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 02:00:49 +0100 From: Tor Egge Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > mount /dev/fd0 / > > I was surprised when the above command rebooted my machine. Is this > correct behavior? This is on 3.0-971208-SNAP BTW. This is a known problem (assuming that you got a panic: lockmgr: locking against myself). The mount system call has an exclusive lock on '/' while ffs_mount tries to perform a lookup on '/dev/rfd0'. PR kern/434, kern/1031, kern/1067, kern/2174 reports the same problem. I've sent a suggested fix for PR#1067. - Tor Egge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 17:02:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23218 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:02:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22678; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:01:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05653; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:00:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802140100.RAA05653@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:08:36 +1030." <19980214110836.27959@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:00:28 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > If there was any real utility to boggle in the first place, a name > > change would be fine. As it is, nuking it is simpler and faster. > > How about asking for volunteers to do the work? A call for volunteers was made when the issue first came up, many weeks ago. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:31:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06075 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:31:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06018; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:30:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA10480; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:30:01 -0800 (PST) To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:08:36 +1030." <19980214110836.27959@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:30:01 -0800 Message-ID: <10476.887423401@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > How about asking for volunteers to do the work? Gosh, yes, that works so often around here. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:35:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06409 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:35:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ricercar.coda.cs.cmu.edu (ASYNC14-8.NET.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.188.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06334; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:35:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from braam@cs.cmu.edu) Received: from localhost (braam@localhost) by ricercar.coda.cs.cmu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA05276; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:39:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ricercar.coda.cs.cmu.edu: braam owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:38:59 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Braam X-Sender: braam@ricercar To: "Matthew N. Dodd" , Eivind Eklund , hackers list FreeBSD , braam@cs.cmu.edu, Damon Permezel , rvb@cs.cmu.edu, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG, robert@watson.org, henry@cs.cmu.edu, linux-coda@TELEMANN.coda.cs.cmu.edu, tytso@mit.edu Subject: Coda [ was: RE: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors ], Linux Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all, To introduce myself, I suppose I should say that I am more or less in charge of the Coda project now. So you can take this as a bit as our official view (fwiw). First of all: THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST IN Coda! I felt it would be a good idea for me to respond to the flurry of messages coming from the FreeBSD community. I try to read all of them but can't really reply right away to everything. A) Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux ------------------------------------------------------------- This is NOT AT ALL TRUE. I can see how what I said evolved into this statement, here is what I really said (or believe I said): a) the FreeBSD port (2.2.5) is _almost_ done. We have a working client, the servers are playing up a bit. b) we DO NOT FAVOUR LINUX. It is true that our servers start up 3 times faster on Linux than on NetBSD 1.2. It is also true that a fairly large group of students from Yale is helping to implement Linux specific Coda optimizations (which FreeBSD may already have). It is also true that some NetBSD people have been sending me very unfriendly messages about Linux. Finally it is true that a lot of high quality FreeBSD/NetBSD messages have been sent to the Coda lists -- that's great. Please join the linux-coda lists (see www.coda.cs.cmu.edu). Don't engage in OS wars, or irrelevant criticism of other free or commercial operating systems -- if it happens I'll start moderating the list. We are just interested in Coda. The list will probably be renamed reflect its NON-linux status. We hate OS wars, and want Coda on all platforms particularly the free Unices and the Windows platforms -- all using one code base. A lot of work remains to be done -- many features are not reliable enough, performance and scaleability, useability and administration can be much improved. Many good things come out of trying to just use Coda. Use our test server, or set up your own. If you happen to have time, by all means send us patches. Mail about difficulties to the list -- we'll try to help. c) YES, we are making a "CURRENT release for FreeBSD". Bob Baron chose to first do 2.2.5 and will soon start on current (vz. when the server works and some other minor kernel issues have been sorted out). I hope the kernel code of this release can be accepted for inclusion in the FreeBSD kernel. B) Inode calls. --------------- For scalability these calls are desirable. In fact we probably only need iopen, istat, idelete and I'll try to remove iinc and idec (used for copy on write vnodes). These inode calls are only used by the cache manager and the servers and don't compromise security of the system, since they should be restricted to root. Ted Ts'o indeed said that Linus is probably against plain "iopen" -- and rightly so. Using the special names like 'I'N'O'D'E we can let it work right with the VFS and dentry's etc while retaining most of the benefits of speed. For Coda this will just become an optionally supported partition type. It should indeed be a mount option, or better perhaps something set with a utility in the superblock, so that fsck knows about it too. (see the messages of myself and Ted on linux-coda). C) Ext2 vs FFS vs Coda ---------------------- Coda needs much larger vnodes to deal with replication servers (among others). We also run in user space -- mostly and use proper RVM transactions to guarantee (on all platforms) very high consistency on metadata. Effectively we are a transactional, log based system on servers. We use file storage only for file data not for metadata. On clients we also have transactions, but we don't flush them right away. We hope to implement write back caching where large groups of transactions can reach the server and improve performance by eliminating many transaction related fsyncs. It is unwise to speculate about the consistency guarantees which ext2fs might offer to Coda versus ffs -- without considering RVM. The Coda meta data will be treated identically through RVM, on all platforms. The file data might be slightly more at risk in ext2fs (although I believe that ffs and extfs mostly differ in the handling of metadata). I hope this clarifies some of the recent discussions. Thank you very much for all your enthusiasm -- that makes us very happy of course. - Peter Braam - Senior Systems Scientist Coda Project, SCS, CMU To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:35:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06322 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:35:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06286; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:34:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23100; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:04:33 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA11219; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:04:32 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980214130431.33631@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:04:31 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mike Smith , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations References: <19980214110836.27959@freebie.lemis.com> <10476.887423401@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <10476.887423401@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 06:30:01PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 18:30:01 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> How about asking for volunteers to do the work? > > Gosh, yes, that works so often around here. :-) Looks like you need a rest. If it didn't work, FreeBSD wouldn't exist. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:36:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07227 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:36:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07146; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:36:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15464; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:36:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015440; Fri Feb 13 19:36:27 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA12476; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:36:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802140236.TAA12476@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 02:36:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802140100.RAA05653@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 13, 98 05:00:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > If there was any real utility to boggle in the first place, a name > > > change would be fine. As it is, nuking it is simpler and faster. > > > > How about asking for volunteers to do the work? > > A call for volunteers was made when the issue first came up, many weeks > ago. How about calling for volunteers, and this time not limiting it to "volunteers with commit priviledges"? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:42:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08828 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:42:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08551; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:41:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA10559; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:41:12 -0800 (PST) To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:04:31 +1030." <19980214130431.33631@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:41:12 -0800 Message-ID: <10555.887424072@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Only because people still continue to volunteer on their own hook to do various things that strike their fancies. When I actually *ask* for volunteers, all I usually hear are many feet stampeding in the other direction. :-) That's not to say that "the call" hasn't been heeding by many in the past (which is always greatly appreciated), but it's not a statistically predominant outcome. Jordan > On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 18:30:01 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> How about asking for volunteers to do the work? > > > > Gosh, yes, that works so often around here. :-) > > Looks like you need a rest. If it didn't work, FreeBSD wouldn't > exist. > > Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:46:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10198 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:46:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA09902; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:45:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15030; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:34:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015012; Fri Feb 13 19:34:37 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA12387; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:34:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802140234.TAA12387@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 02:34:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980214103454.41822@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Feb 14, 98 10:34:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is this all they're asking? A name change would solve that. This > sounds very different from the issue with Tetris a few months back. A name change would have solved the "Tetris problem" as well. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:53:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12358 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:53:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12327; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:53:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23117; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:23:13 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA24105; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:23:12 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980214132311.16066@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:23:11 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mike Smith , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations References: <19980214130431.33631@freebie.lemis.com> <10555.887424072@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <10555.887424072@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 06:41:12PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 18:41:12 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 18:30:01 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >>>> How about asking for volunteers to do the work? >>> >>> Gosh, yes, that works so often around here. :-) >> >> Looks like you need a rest. If it didn't work, FreeBSD wouldn't >> exist. > > Only because people still continue to volunteer on their own hook to > do various things that strike their fancies. When I actually *ask* > for volunteers, all I usually hear are many feet stampeding in the > other direction. :-) > > That's not to say that "the call" hasn't been heeding by many in the > past (which is always greatly appreciated), but it's not a > statistically predominant outcome. OK. Shall I call for volunteers on -questions? :-) Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 19:05:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14266 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:05:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ve7tcp.ampr.org (ve7tcp.ampr.org [198.161.92.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14233 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:05:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org) Received: from localhost.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by ve7tcp.ampr.org (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA05462; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:05:25 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802140305.UAA05462@ve7tcp.ampr.org> X-Authentication-Warning: ve7tcp.ampr.org: localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:48:34 PST." <199802132248.OAA05676@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:05:25 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Amancio" == Amancio Hasty writes: Amancio> While we at it, why not rename the games directory to Amancio> ports/antiques-games? If you do that please be sure to bring back the original FORTRAN source code for adventure :-P --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 19:40:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19291 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:40:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19255 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:40:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199802140340.TAA19255@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA186907616; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:40:16 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:40:16 +1100 (EDT) Cc: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, semen@iclub.nsu.ru In-Reply-To: <19980214095454.51602@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Feb 14, 98 09:54:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Greg Lehey, sie said: > > As I have frequently reported on this list, I had nothing but trouble > with HP DDS-1 drives. I had 4 of them, and they lived between 5 and 8 > months. That changed when I got an HP DDS-2 drive, which lasted over > a year. I've been using an Archive changer now for 15 months, and > haven't had any trouble (although I'm beginning to wonder if the > original topic isn't biting me too: I'm only getting 2.7 GB on a 90m > tape, too much for no compression and very little for compression). Having worked at a largish HP site, the standard thing to do when you had any trouble with a HP DDS-1 (DLZ or not) drive was to call up and get a replacement. DDS-2's weren't much better, and finally with the DDS-3, it actually might see out it's warranty before being replaced. Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 20:02:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21972 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:02:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA21961 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:02:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 12407 invoked by uid 1000); 14 Feb 1998 04:02:26 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-020998 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:02:26 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: WatchDog Timer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What is the driver name & path of the WatchDog timer device driver? I can't find it. I know it is dumb of me... ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.708.7858 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 20:09:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22966 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:09:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22954 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:08:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21910; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:53:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802140353.TAA21910@implode.root.com> To: Julian Elischer cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:14:45 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:53:03 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I think our policy should be to change the name of the program in >question. this includes changing history.. >a global replace in the ,v files would probably fix it. >after renaming theh appropriate files, it should all still work >but with a different name, even versions checked out with -D "last year". It would still leave the biggest problem which occurs when people do cvs update; with the boggle RCS files renamed, CVS doesn't know what to do with the boggle files and aborts. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 21:15:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28212 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:15:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28203 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:15:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA26869; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:15:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980213211513.27436@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:15:13 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations References: <6186.887370876@time.cdrom.com> <199802132141.OAA07045@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199802132141.OAA07045@usr02.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 09:41:05PM +0000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert scribbled this message on Feb 13: > > Anyway, this is now our "2nd warning" from the trademark folks in > > question and if was over something that even vaguely COUNTED for > > something (and I'll give the slower students a hint here: > > /usr/src/games/boggle does not, indeed, count for so much as a cup of > > lukewarm feline spittle in the overall BSD sense of things), then > > maybe I'd even consider fighting it or at the very least renaming it > > to "bogroll" or something but hey, it doesn't - it's a stupid > > antiquated game that the trademark holders should probably be ashamed > > of rather than attempting to defend here, OK? If it weren't for the > > damage to the CVS tree caused by having to actually punt it from the > > attic, hell, I'd probably even rate its departure as a welcome event! :-) > > Someone with commit priviledges needs to rename it. no, someone with the time needs to rename it and submit it via send-pr.. -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 22:14:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04433 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:14:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04420 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:14:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28577; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:14:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd028566; Fri Feb 13 23:14:48 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA14345; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:14:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802140614.XAA14345@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:14:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980213211513.27436@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from "John-Mark Gurney" at Feb 13, 98 09:15:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Someone with commit priviledges needs to rename it. > > no, someone with the time needs to rename it and submit it via send-pr.. Feel free to send-pr this... cd $CVSROOT/src/games vi Makefile,v :1,$s/boggle/boffle/g :x mv boggle boffle cd boffle vi Makefile,v :1,$s/boggle/boffle/g :x cd mkdict vi mkdict.c,v :1,$s/"bog\.h"/"bof.h"/g :x cd ../mkindex vi mkindex.c,v :1,$s/"bog\.h"/"bof.h"/g :x cd .. mv boggle boffle cd boffle mv bog.h,v bof.h,v mv bog.c,v bof.c,v mv boggle.6,v boffle.6,v vi Makefile,v :1,$s/boggle/boffle/g :1,$s/bog/bof/g :x vi boffle.6,v :1,$s/boggle/boffle/g :1,$s/BOGGLE/BOFFLE/g :1,$s/Boggle/Boffle/g :1,$s/a trademark of Parker Brothers/not a trademark/g :x vi helpfile,v :1,$s/Boggle/Boffle/g :1,$s/bog/bof/g :1,$s/a trademark of Parker Brothers/not a trademark/g :wq vi bof.*,v help.c,v mach.c,v timer.c,v word.c,v :1,$s/boggle/boffle/g :1,$s/bog/bof/g :w :n Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05441 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:18:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05433 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:18:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01996; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:18:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd001980; Fri Feb 13 23:18:44 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA15557; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:18:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802140618.XAA15557@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:18:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: julian@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802140353.TAA21910@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Feb 13, 98 07:53:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >I think our policy should be to change the name of the program in > >question. this includes changing history.. > >a global replace in the ,v files would probably fix it. > >after renaming theh appropriate files, it should all still work > >but with a different name, even versions checked out with -D "last year". > > It would still leave the biggest problem which occurs when people do cvs > update; with the boggle RCS files renamed, CVS doesn't know what to do with > the boggle files and aborts. Ah. Where would this information be stored? I apparently left off a: vi wherever :1,$s/boggle/boffle/g :1,$s/bog\.c/bof\.c/g :1,$s/bog\.h/bof\.h/g :x Note: you will have this same problem if you delete it off the face of CVS, won't you? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 22:34:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA06773 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:34:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA06768 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:34:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id GAA13029; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:33:29 GMT Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:33:29 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FS Jumbo patches In-Reply-To: <199802140614.XAA14345@usr01.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry, I haven't been following current for a while so I missed your patches, but I can guess at the results as far as you getting anywhere. Why don't you ask for commit-privs to a separate CVS repository as I suggested a few times. Then go to it and get a team of early adopters to join in to be merge slaves, general supporters, reviewers, contributors, and testers. If you're confident in the quality of your work it will surely be integrated into current as SMP was. All this "Hell-bent on Current or I'm not Terry Lambert" is just not productive. Imagine how far along you'd be if had done this a few years ago. You might want to talk to dyson, dg, phk and others who are likely to make large changes in current that effect your code for timing considerations. Mike -- 'Algorithms are the "stuff" of Computer Science' Robert Sedgewick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 22:51:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08412 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:51:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08404 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:51:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@panda.hilink.com.au) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16601; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:51:03 +1100 (EST) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:51:03 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mrb@labyrinth.net.au Subject: fsck -p in /etc/rc on large ccd Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm trying make a 15 GB ccd filesystem, with two 7.5 GB disk partitions, but while it works happily in multi-user mode, it fails to fsck at boot. The error messages are cannot allocate 8325122 bytes for lncntp /dev/rccd0c : CAN'T CHECK FILE SYSTEM /dev/rccd0c : UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY RUN FSCK MANUALLY THE FOLLOWING FILE SYSTEM HAD AN INCONISTENCY /dev/rccd0c (/var/spool/news) Automatic file system check failed . . . help This occurs every time you reboot - no matter how clean the shutdown The system has 128 MB ram. Any ideas? Danny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 23:13:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10088 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:13:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA10080 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:13:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14840; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:13:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd014819; Sat Feb 14 00:13:47 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA15558; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:13:42 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802140713.AAA15558@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FS Jumbo patches To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:13:42 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Feb 14, 98 03:33:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I haven't been following current for a while so I missed your patches, but > I can guess at the results as far as you getting anywhere. See http://www.freebsd.org/~terry/#COMMITS. Julian has recently commited changes that Jeremey Allison made (and that I contributed to) to make pthreads work. I am also getting feedback on the stuff I've posted. > Why don't you ask for commit-privs to a separate CVS repository as I > suggested a few times. Then go to it and get a team of early adopters to > join in to be merge slaves, general supporters, reviewers, contributors, > and testers. If you're confident in the quality of your work it will > surely be integrated into current as SMP was. I'll try that again, but I've tried it before with little luck. > All this "Hell-bent on Current or I'm not Terry Lambert" is just not > productive. Imagine how far along you'd be if had done this a few years > ago. "Hell bent" is a little harsh. I've been ripping my patches into tiny piece that can be understood by the average dolt instead of the average engineer, and so far I seem to be making progress. I'm optimistic. If nothing else, BSDI will be committing my NFS locking patches. > You might want to talk to dyson, dg, phk and others who are likely to make > large changes in current that effect your code for timing considerations. I had dinner with Dyson and McKusick last Thursday. 8-). And PHK is the guy who committed my "l_hotchar" stuff. You just need to be patient for these things; if nothing else, I will outlive the nay-sayers... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 23:17:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10643 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:17:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA10634 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:16:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10734; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:16:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd010727; Sat Feb 14 00:16:48 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA15698; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:16:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802140716.AAA15698@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FS Jumbo patches To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:16:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: michaelh@cet.co.jp, tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802140713.AAA15558@usr08.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 14, 98 07:13:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ ... stuff ... ] Clearly, I thought this was private email... please disregard unless your name is Michael Hancock. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 23:24:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11644 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:24:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11639 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:24:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23427; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:54:14 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id RAA03083; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:54:14 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980214175413.56936@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:54:13 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: mrb@labyrinth.net.au Subject: Re: fsck -p in /etc/rc on large ccd References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Daniel O'Callaghan on Sat, Feb 14, 1998 at 05:51:03PM +1100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 17:51:03 +1100, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > I'm trying make a 15 GB ccd filesystem, with two 7.5 GB disk partitions, > but while it works happily in multi-user mode, it fails to fsck at boot. > > The error messages are > > cannot allocate 8325122 bytes for lncntp > /dev/rccd0c : CAN'T CHECK FILE SYSTEM > /dev/rccd0c : UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY RUN FSCK MANUALLY > THE FOLLOWING FILE SYSTEM HAD AN INCONISTENCY /dev/rccd0c (/var/spool/news) > Automatic file system check failed . . . help > > This occurs every time you reboot - no matter how clean the shutdown > > The system has 128 MB ram. > > Any ideas? ISTR that fsck it a little silly with memory allocation on large file systems, but that it should work if you have enough swap. Don't assume that this is the first large allocation, so the 128 MB of RAM may not be enough. Does the file system fsck correctly after you're up and running? If so, you might like to check your swap usage during the fsck. One way or the other it would be interesting to know how much swap you have allocated. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 23:25:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11930 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:25:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11903 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:25:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08193; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:25:08 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00848; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:25:07 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@greenpeace.grondar.za) Message-Id: <199802140725.JAA00848@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Michael Bielicki cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to install tk-8.0.2 on current Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:25:07 +0200 From: Mark Murray Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id XAA11916 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Bielicki wrote: > I can´t seem to be able to install the tk8 port on CURRENT. It > allways tries to install tcl 8.0.2. This is a feature. The tcl80 stuff in CURRENT has an uncertain (?) future, and is supposed to be stand-alone (at this point anyway). > Is there a patch for the port so it stops doing this and finds the included > tcl stuff in CURRENT ?? No. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 00:53:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19737 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:53:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA19729 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:53:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0y3cjM-00011y-00; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:13:48 -0800 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:13:47 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Greg Lehey cc: "Daniel O'Callaghan" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mrb@labyrinth.net.au Subject: Re: fsck -p in /etc/rc on large ccd In-Reply-To: <19980214175413.56936@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > > cannot allocate 8325122 bytes for lncntp ... > > The system has 128 MB ram. ... > ISTR that fsck it a little silly with memory allocation on large file > systems, but that it should work if you have enough swap. Don't ... 128MB is plenty, but the stock /etc/login.conf will not let fsck use all of it. This is _old_ issue. Search archive for "lncntp". Distinctive error messages like that are very handy for archive searches. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 00:53:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19743 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:53:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA19732 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:53:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0y3chS-00011w-00; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:11:50 -0800 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:11:48 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mrb@labyrinth.net.au Subject: Re: fsck -p in /etc/rc on large ccd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > cannot allocate 8325122 bytes for lncntp See login.conf Settings for "daemon" must be set higher. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 01:01:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21608 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:01:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21603 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:01:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA24659; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:01:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802140901.BAA24659@implode.root.com> To: Terry Lambert cc: julian@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:18:41 GMT." <199802140618.XAA15557@usr01.primenet.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:01:13 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> >I think our policy should be to change the name of the program in >> >question. this includes changing history.. >> >a global replace in the ,v files would probably fix it. >> >after renaming theh appropriate files, it should all still work >> >but with a different name, even versions checked out with -D "last year". >> >> It would still leave the biggest problem which occurs when people do cvs >> update; with the boggle RCS files renamed, CVS doesn't know what to do with >> the boggle files and aborts. > >Ah. Where would this information be stored? It is stored in the CVS/Entries file of the checked out directory. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 03:51:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09371 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 03:51:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from p.funk.org (p.funk.org [194.109.61.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA09366 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 03:51:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alexlh@p.funk.org) Received: (from alexlh@localhost) by p.funk.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00224; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:50:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from alexlh) Message-ID: <19980214125017.58187@p.funk.org> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:50:17 +0100 From: Alex Le Heux To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: some funny things Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm using the pcm audio driver together with my Terratec soundcard. I notice two strange things: 1. at bootup the kernel detects the device as pcm1, and not pcm0 as is listed in my kernel config file. 2. when playing mp3s with mpg123, if mpg123 ever gets behind on decoding (me forgetting the -b flag), the sound stops, and doesn't come back. The only solution I've found is rebooting the machine. If anyone wants more info, I'll be happy to supply it. Alex -- Hi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 04:05:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA11188 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 04:05:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA11168 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 04:05:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA21948; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 04:04:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802141204.EAA21948@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Alex Le Heux cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: some funny things In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:50:17 +0100." <19980214125017.58187@p.funk.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 04:04:29 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > I'm using the pcm audio driver together with my Terratec soundcard. I notice > two strange things: > > 1. at bootup the kernel detects the device as pcm1, and not pcm0 as is listed > in my kernel config file. This is normal; pcm0 is the statically configured device, pcm1 is the first PnP device. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 05:37:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA18797 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 05:37:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca37-18.ix.netcom.com [207.93.141.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA18792 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 05:37:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id FAA00141; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 05:37:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 05:37:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802141337.FAA00141@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: tlambert@primenet.com CC: ac199@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hoek@hwcn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199802120603.XAA03786@usr02.primenet.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Thu, 12 Feb 1998 06:03:41 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * These are *not* 1-2k patches. The stuff Jeremey did on making signal Then the patches just shouldn't go into the ports tree. Put up the patch on some site you have access to (ftp or http) and use PATCH_SITES to specify them. Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 06:16:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA26224 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:16:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA26219 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:16:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA16939 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:16:43 -0800 (PST) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: //freebsd.org - RIP In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:34:33 EST." <199802112034.PAA04842@pudv01.ric.pmu.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:16:43 -0800 Message-ID: <16935.887465803@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Apologies for the form-letter reply, but a lot of folks came out of the woodwork for this one - I'm shocked! :) I'd like to thank everyone who volunteered to "staff" this position - you guys know who you are! :-) It was kind of a difficult choice considering the sheer number of truly able folks who volunteered, but I finally settled on Steve Sims and Nik Clayton as co-maintainers of the ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/{incoming,development} hierarchies. You may send requests to them at: freebsd-maintainers@ftp.freebsd.org If you're wanting a sub-project hierarchy created under development (in which case you should also send a short bio describing the project, who's working on it and/or any specialized mailing list or web page resources dedicated to it) or if you have some updated bits uploaded into incoming/ for an existing sub-project and you want them moved. Please also be patient if your messages to this alias aren't answered immediately - both these guys also have other lives to deal with and won't always be just sitting there, waiting for your email. :-) Thanks, Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 06:24:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA26994 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:24:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA26988 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:24:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA24303; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:55:32 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802141255.NAA24303@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: some funny things To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:55:32 +0100 (MET) Cc: alexlh@p.funk.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802141204.EAA21948@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 14, 98 04:04:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Hi, > > > > I'm using the pcm audio driver together with my Terratec soundcard. I notice > > two strange things: > > > > 1. at bootup the kernel detects the device as pcm1, and not pcm0 as is listed > > in my kernel config file. > > This is normal; pcm0 is the statically configured device, pcm1 is the > first PnP device. oh... what a relief... finally I don't have to write this myself :) cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 06:26:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA27665 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:26:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA27618 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:26:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA24311; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:57:43 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802141257.NAA24311@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: some funny things To: alexlh@p.funk.org (Alex Le Heux) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:57:43 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980214125017.58187@p.funk.org> from "Alex Le Heux" at Feb 14, 98 12:49:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > in my kernel config file. > > 2. when playing mp3s with mpg123, if mpg123 ever gets behind on decoding > (me forgetting the -b flag), the sound stops, and doesn't come back. > The only solution I've found is rebooting the machine. can you send me (plain text) your /var/run/dmesg.boot, and also the output of "cat /dev/sndstat" ... cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 07:51:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04566 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:51:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from servidor.exsocom.com.mx (servidor.exsocom.com.mx [200.34.46.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA04549; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from agalindo@servidor.exsocom.com.mx) Received: from servidor.exsocom.com.mx.exsocom.com.mx (direccion.exsocom.com.mx [200.34.46.131]) by servidor.exsocom.com.mx (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA14947; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:58:55 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980214155709.009eef1c@exsocom.com.mx> X-Sender: agalindo@exsocom.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:57:09 -0600 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Alejandro Galindo Subject: ipfw rule for permit http access Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, i installed an ipfirewall with the packet filter (ipfw), i need permit the conection to my http server, and i have the next rules: ipfw add pass tcp from any >1023 to 200.43.1.1 80 ipfw add pass tcp from 200.43.1.1 80 to any >1023 but the external clients cant access to my Web server. Can you indicate me if the rules are ok? or, what rules can i do? Thanks in advanced ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | , , | | /( )` | | \ \___ / | | | /- _ `-/ ' | | (/\/ \ \ /\ | | ExSoCom Dgo. MEXICO / / | ` \ | | O O ) / | | | `-^--'`< ' | | (_.) _ ) / | | Alejandro Galindo Chairez `.___/` / | | Tel: (52 18) 179177 `-----' / | | Fax: (52 18) 179177 <----. __ / __ \ | | <----|====O)))==) \) /==== | | e-mail alejandro.galindo@exsocom.com.mx <----' `--' `.__,' \ | | | | | | http://www.exsocom.com.mx \ / /\| | ______( (_ / \______/ | | ,' ,-----' | | | a FreeBSD user `--{__________) | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 08:08:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06984 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:08:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06966 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:08:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06478 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:08:47 GMT Message-ID: <34E5C18D.928E3A8C@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:08:45 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since a weeks ago. I get the error: vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0) panic: vm_page_free: freeing page There is clearly a problem with the VM subsystem, and there have been a few messages posted here with people pointing this out. Since this stops people installing the latest freebsd-current, it could be considered quite important. Any responses/fixes? Cheers, Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 08:25:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08943 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:25:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08930 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:25:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05993; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:24:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199802141624.LAA05993@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-Reply-To: <199802140048.RAA09550@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Feb 13, 98 05:48:26 pm" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:24:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Warner Losh said: > In message <199802140035.QAA05504@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes: > : Would you bankrupt yourself for such a trivial cause as a clone of a > : stupid word-guessing game? Is it worth that much to you? > > Nope. Boggle can die the big death as far as I'm concerned. Now, if > someone went after FreeBSD for a significant part of the kernel... > That has been my opinion. However, I got stuck in the hell-hole of Las Vegas for a day, others might think of it as an opportunity. (Different strokes for different folks, I guess.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 08:27:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09656 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:27:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA09368; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:26:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id PAA24546; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:43:09 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802141443.PAA24546@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: ufs on CDROM anyone ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:43:08 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG With the price of CDR gone so down, i decided to try a fastest technique for backup -- namely, just burn the raw partition on a CD and then mount the disk as ufs. Everything seemed to go fine (mount /dev/wcd0c /mnt) so i tried to read the whole disk with tar cvf /dev/null /mnt after some time, i decided that things were working, pressed Ctrl-C to abort TAR, and the system (2.2.1-R with IDE disk and ATAPI cdrom) rebooted. No panic or other messages. Is anyone else willing to look at the problem and see if it can be reproduced with SCSI cds, or newer releases ? The partition I dumped was about 500MB, not full, but i did not try to write to the CD either (although I agree I should have used mount -r perhaps...) disk went fine. What i'd like to know is if the problem is related to the ATAPI code, or to something in the ufs code which assumes the partition as writable and dies if the underlying device does not support writes... cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 14:34:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00320 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:34:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (mail.rdu.bellsouth.net [205.152.32.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00264 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:34:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from apesa@bellsouth.net) Received: from DEVELOPER (host-207-53-11-6.rdu.bellsouth.net [207.53.11.6]) by mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA27620 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:29:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by DEVELOPER with Microsoft Mail id <01BD394C.B3A20740@DEVELOPER>; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:30:23 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD394C.B3A20740@DEVELOPER> From: "Arthur P. Pesa" To: "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: panic: general protection fault Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:24:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA00266 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I have been encountering the following panic for several months. I have been running this particular machine since June '97 on 2.2.2-Release. I initially got a similar Fatal trap 12 during the install, the workaround was to disable cpu caching in the bios during the install, then go back afterwards and re-enable. For the last several months I have become more dedicated to configuring this machine as my time frees up. I have changed out the memory in hopes it was a corrupt Simm, no luck. The Mo. Board is an Octek Hippo with an Intel Overdrive Cpu, it originally had an Intel 486 dx 4 /100. I seemed to get the same panic with either CPU. It has a Promise IDE controller with 2 ide drives, 1.6G and 540 MB seagate. It also has a 3Com 3C509 III ethernet card, I do remember seeing that the ep0 interface was buggy? I beleive that was on www.freebsd.com. I do not have another ethernet card swap at the moment. Following what is logged after the core dump: developer kernel log messages: > ess = Idle > interrupt mask = > panic: general protection fault > > syncing disks... > > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > fault virtual address = 0x10 > instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6 > stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4 > frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4 > syncing disks... > > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > fault virtual address = 0x10 > fault code = supervisor read, page not present > instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6 > stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e70 > frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e80 > code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 > processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 > current process = Idle > interrupt mask = > panic: page fault > Fatal trap 9: general protection fault while in kernel mode > instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01afe35 > stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d6000 > frame pointer = 0x10:0x0 > panic: general protection fault > stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4 > frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4 > syncing disks... done I do not have much expereince with system programming in Unix so any help will be greatly appreciated, even a pointer in the right direction as to debug methods or documentation. TIA ________________________________________________________________________ Arthur Patrick Pesa Integrated Object Development (919) 845-0281 hm (919) 845-8693 hm (919) 572-3457 wk Raleigh, North Carolina apesa@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 15:07:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03877 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:07:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03689 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:06:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node03.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.3]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA25751 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:51:11 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19691231210000.00a226f0@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:52:33 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: SFT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey, boys, just one question that crossed my mind: Why can't the kernel do something like: (consider a system w/ mirrowed disks using ccd) if (main disk) fails then start using (mirror disk) What - technically - prevents ccd/kernel/something else from being able to do it ? At 11:33 AM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote: > >On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Capriotti wrote: > >> Does anyone have any news about System Fault Tolerance under Free ? >> >> Like what Novell has, from mirrowed disks to mirrowed servers ? > > Mirrored disks can be done with ccd. > > Mirrored servers are basically what Unix types call a cluster. On >Novell this is easy, because Novell boxes are basically just file servers, >but a Unix box could be doing many different things. Migrating tasks >from the failed system to the working system, and assumption >of the IP traffic, is difficult. > >Tom > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 15:18:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:18:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06182 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23352; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:35:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802142235.OAA23352@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd@isvara.net cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:08:45 GMT." <34E5C18D.928E3A8C@challenge.isvara.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:35:53 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Questions regarding FreeBSD-current should be sent to the -current mailing list. If you are planning on running -current, you should also be subscribed to this list. If you were subscribed to this list, you would know that there is a problem with the -current boot images that has not yet been resolved. Please be patient; there will be an announcement to -current as soon as we have a solution. > I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since > a weeks ago. I get the error: > vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0) > panic: vm_page_free: freeing page > > There is clearly a problem with the VM subsystem, and there have been a > few messages posted here with people pointing this out. Since this stops > people installing the latest freebsd-current, it could be considered > quite important. > > Any responses/fixes? > > Cheers, > Dan > _____________________________________ > Daniel J Blueman > BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester > Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net > Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 15:36:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11336 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:36:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10909 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:33:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24296; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:03:31 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA08162; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:03:31 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980215100330.12416@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:03:30 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Capriotti , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Disk mirroring (was: SFT) References: <3.0.32.19691231210000.00a226f0@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19691231210000.00a226f0@pop.mpc.com.br>; from Capriotti on Sat, Feb 14, 1998 at 07:52:33PM -0300 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 19:52:33 -0300, Capriotti wrote: > At 11:33 AM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >> >> On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Capriotti wrote: >> >>> Does anyone have any news about System Fault Tolerance under Free ? >>> >>> Like what Novell has, from mirrowed disks to mirrowed servers ? >> >> Mirrored disks can be done with ccd. >> >> Mirrored servers are basically what Unix types call a cluster. On >> Novell this is easy, because Novell boxes are basically just file servers, >> but a Unix box could be doing many different things. Migrating tasks >> from the failed system to the working system, and assumption >> of the IP traffic, is difficult. > > Hey, boys, just one question that crossed my mind: > > Why can't the kernel do something like: > > (consider a system w/ mirrowed disks using ccd) > > if (main disk) fails then start using (mirror disk) > > What - technically - prevents ccd/kernel/something else from being able to > do it ? Nothing. You've presumably missed some discussion on the matter in the -fs list. Unfortunately, CCD does not recover at all gracefully from this kind of situation. I'm currently writing a replacement for ccd which will do this (sort of), amongst other things. Why sort of? Because you wouldn't want to use one disk exclusively if you have two. You'll share read accesses as evenly as possible across the available spindles, and of course you must write to all of them. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 15:38:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11651 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:38:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11556 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:37:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06202; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:35:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199802141735.MAA06202@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem In-Reply-To: <34E5C18D.928E3A8C@challenge.isvara.net> from "freebsd@isvara.net" at "Feb 14, 98 04:08:45 pm" To: freebsd@isvara.net Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:35:13 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG freebsd@isvara.net said: > Hi, > I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since > a weeks ago. I get the error: > vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0) > panic: vm_page_free: freeing page > > There is clearly a problem with the VM subsystem, and there have been a > few messages posted here with people pointing this out. Since this stops > people installing the latest freebsd-current, it could be considered > quite important. > I'll try to look at it, but I am going to be very busy again next week. If someone else gets a chance to look into it, it would be helpful. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 16:14:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16942 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:14:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16694 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:13:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id VAA19746 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:11:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id TAA00882; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:53:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980214195313.45645@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:53:13 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Hackers References: <34E5C18D.928E3A8C@challenge.isvara.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <34E5C18D.928E3A8C@challenge.isvara.net>; from freebsd@isvara.net on Sat, Feb 14, 1998 at 04:08:45PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4049 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to freebsd@isvara.net: > I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since > a weeks ago. I get the error: > vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0) > panic: vm_page_free: freeing page I get the same problem from recent bootdisk taken from current.freebsd.org too. Gets frustrating when you try to find a working boot disk. I finally dug out an old 2.2.1 CD. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #56: Fri Feb 6 21:36:56 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 16:14:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16950 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:14:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.volant.org (phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA16924 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:14:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from patl@phoenix.volant.org) From: patl@phoenix.volant.org Received: from asimov.phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.65] by phoenix.volant.org with smtp (Exim 1.62 #1) id 0y3nK3-00057p-00; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:32:23 -0800 Received: from localhost by asimov.phoenix.volant.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA23043; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:30:34 -0800 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:30:34 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: patl@phoenix.volant.org Subject: x86 memory performance 'flaw' ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just came across a site that claims that there is a design 'flaw' that affects memory/cache performance for all recent x86 processors; and provides a work-around. I'm interested in the opinions of the wizards on this list. The URL is: http://www.intelligentfirm.com/ Thanks, -Pat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 16:27:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19432 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:27:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19339 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:27:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24362; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:57:21 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA08353; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:57:20 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980215105720.23039@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:57:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: patl@phoenix.volant.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: x86 memory performance 'flaw' ? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from patl@phoenix.volant.org on Sat, Feb 14, 1998 at 11:30:34AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 11:30:34 -0800, patl@phoenix.volant.org wrote: > I just came across a site that claims that there is a design 'flaw' > that affects memory/cache performance for all recent x86 processors; > and provides a work-around. I'm interested in the opinions of the > wizards on this list. The URL is: > > http://www.intelligentfirm.com/ This looks like the thing discovered by Georg Schnurer of c't magazine. I'll try to dig out the issue and see what they thought of it. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 16:46:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22275 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:46:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (root@haiti-113.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22147 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:45:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00557; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:00:23 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:00:23 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Mike Smith cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: some funny things In-Reply-To: <199802141204.EAA21948@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm using the pcm audio driver together with my Terratec soundcard. I notice > > two strange things: > > > > 1. at bootup the kernel detects the device as pcm1, and not pcm0 as is listed > > in my kernel config file. > > This is normal; pcm0 is the statically configured device, pcm1 is the > first PnP device. I still find that to be at least a little bit annoying, but at least it works. Oddly enough, my SB32 (according to the BIOS), probes as an SB16 PnP. - alex A diplomat is someone who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you look forward to the trip. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 19:50:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14376 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:50:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (mail.rdu.bellsouth.net [205.152.32.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14304 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:49:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from apesa@bellsouth.net) Received: from bellsouth.net (host-207-53-9-143.rdu.bellsouth.net [207.53.9.143]) by mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03356; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:49:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34E6661B.A5778FBA@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:50:55 -0500 From: "Arthur P. Pesa" Organization: Integrated Object Development X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: grog@lemis.com Subject: Re: panic: general protection fault (one long line) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I apologize for the dispicably formatted email. You're right, I probably would tend to ignore it as well. I obviously did not intend my question to be posed as a "one liner", and was unaware it appeared as such. I will refrain from using the offending email software. However my question remains: On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 13:24:43 -0500, Arthur P. Pesa wrote: > Hello, I have been encountering the following panic for several months. I have been running this particular machine since June '97 on 2.2.2-Release. I initially got a similar Fatal trap 12 during the install, the workaround was to disable cpu caching in the bios during the install, then go back afterwards and re-enable. For the last several months I have become more dedicated to configuring this machine as my time frees up. I have changed out the memory in hopes it was a corrupt Simm, no luck. The Mo. Board is an Octek Hippo with an Intel Overdrive Cpu, it originally had an Intel 486 dx 4 /100. I seemed to get the same panic with either CPU. It has a Promise IDE controller with 2 ide drives, 1.6G and 540 MB seagate. It also has a 3Com 3C509 III ethernet card, I do remember seeing that the ep0 interface was buggy? I beleive that was on www.freebsd.com. I do not have another ethernet card swap at the moment. Following what is logged after the core dump:> syncing disks...> > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > fault virtual address = 0x10 > instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6 > stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4 > frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4 > syncing disks... > > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > fault virtual address = 0x10 > fault code = supervisor read, page not present > instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6 > stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e70 > frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e80 > code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 > processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 > current process = Idle > interrupt mask = > panic: page fault > Fatal trap 9: general protection fault while in kernel mode > instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01afe35 > stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d6000 > frame pointer = 0x10:0x0 > panic: general protection fault > stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4 > frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4 > syncing disks... done Thank you. Pat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 20:30:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19864 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:30:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19603 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:29:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA24559; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:59:00 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA12415; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:59:00 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980215145859.56665@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:58:59 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Arthur P. Pesa" , Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: panic: general protection fault (one long line) References: <34E6661B.A5778FBA@bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <34E6661B.A5778FBA@bellsouth.net>; from Arthur P. Pesa on Sat, Feb 14, 1998 at 10:50:55PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 22:50:55 -0500, Arthur P. Pesa wrote: > I apologize for the dispicably formatted email. You're right, I probably > would tend to ignore it as well. I obviously did not intend my question > to be posed as a "one liner", and was unaware it appeared as such. I > will refrain from using the offending email software. I think you can probably fix it. And Netscape can misbehave too :-) > However my question remains: > On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 13:24:43 -0500, Arthur P. Pesa wrote: >> Hello, I have been encountering the following panic for several > months. I have been running this particular machine since June '97 on > 2.2.2-Release. I initially got a similar Fatal trap 12 during the > install, the workaround was to disable cpu caching in the bios during > the install, then go back afterwards and re-enable. For the last several > months I have become more dedicated to configuring this machine as my > time frees up. I have changed out the memory in hopes it was a corrupt > Simm, no luck. The Mo. Board is an Octek Hippo with an Intel Overdrive > Cpu, it originally had an Intel 486 dx 4 /100. I seemed to get the same > panic with either CPU. It has a Promise IDE controller with 2 ide > drives, 1.6G and 540 MB seagate. It also has a 3Com 3C509 III ethernet > card, I do remember seeing that the ep0 interface was buggy? A lot of people say that, but I've been using the driver for 2½ years now, and I haven't had any problems. > I beleive that was on www.freebsd.com. I do not have another > ethernet card swap at the moment. Following what is logged after the > core dump: > >> Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode >> fault virtual address = 0x10 >> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6 >> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4 >> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4 >> syncing disks... >> >> Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode >> fault virtual address = 0x10 >> fault code = supervisor read, page not present >> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6 >> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e70 >> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e80 >> code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b >> = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 >> processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 >> current process = Idle >> interrupt mask = >> panic: page fault >> Fatal trap 9: general protection fault while in kernel mode >> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01afe35 >> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d6000 >> frame pointer = 0x10:0x0 >> panic: general protection fault >> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4 >> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4 >> syncing disks... done Do these all come at once? That's unusual. Anyway, what we need here is a dump to look at. Do you have one? Is the machine set up for one? If not, set it up and see if the dump will happen then. It would also help if you have a debug kernel. See http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook264.html#599for further details. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 22:59:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09759 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:59:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09716 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:59:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18535; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd018521; Sat Feb 14 23:58:57 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA02323; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:58:57 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802150658.XAA02323@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 06:58:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980214195313.45645@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Feb 14, 98 07:53:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since > > a weeks ago. I get the error: > > vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0) > > panic: vm_page_free: freeing page > > I get the same problem from recent bootdisk taken from current.freebsd.org > too. Gets frustrating when you try to find a working boot disk. I finally > dug out an old 2.2.1 CD. Since John is snowed in... Is this "freeing free page" or "freeing busy page"? Are you using CCD? Are you mounting async? Are you trying to use union mounts, or any other FS other than FFS, such as NFS, MSDOSFS, etc.? Have you compiled your kernel -g, then copied it, "strip -d"'ed the copy, and run on the stripped copy until you got a panic, so you could do a source level debug of the kernel code in question? Have you traversed the scheduler queues in the kernel debugger to see if the problem is really a process on two queues? Is vm_page_freechk_and_unqueue() (since it's probably "freeing ???? page") being called from vm_page_free() or vm_page_free_zero()? When you look at the vm_object structure for the object that's failing, is the "type" member OBJT_DEFAULT, OBJT_SWAP, OBJT_VNODE, OBJT_DEVICE, or OBJT_DEAD? If OBJT_VNODE, is the backing_object member cast to a vnode a device vnode, a directory, a file, or VNONE, or what? I'd ask for the -g kernel and dump image, but they are far in excess of my account quota; unless you can put them up for FTP somewhere, and I can pull them down on a faster-than-modem link, you're going to need to go looking for yourself. Do *NOT* mail them to me! Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 23:11:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12569 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:11:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12501 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:11:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA01390; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:10:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802150710.XAA01390@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Feb 1998 06:58:57 GMT." <199802150658.XAA02323@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:10:31 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since > > > a weeks ago. I get the error: > > > vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0) > > > panic: vm_page_free: freeing page > > > > I get the same problem from recent bootdisk taken from current.freebsd.org > > too. Gets frustrating when you try to find a working boot disk. I finally > > dug out an old 2.2.1 CD. > > Since John is snowed in... > > > Is this "freeing free page" or "freeing busy page"? This is "the setup of the 4MB page is screwed". Bruce committed a change that was supposed to fix it a day or two ago, but it doesn't seem to work. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 23:45:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16148 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:45:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16137; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:45:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from koshy@india.hp.com) Received: from postbox.india.hp.com (postbox.india.hp.com [15.10.45.1]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id XAA22883; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:44:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802150744.XAA22883@palrel1.hp.com> Received: from localhost by postbox.india.hp.com with ESMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA101948704; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:15:04 +0530 To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, cjs@portal.ca Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:54:15 PST." <199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:15:03 +0530 From: A Joseph Koshy Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>> "Mike Smith" writes mike> - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few Yes, that may not be such a good idea. Miracles do happen; e.g:- the McLibel case (http://www.mcspotlight.org/), but to bet on such a thing wouldn't be wise :). mike> - Give in. Which is what FreeBSD seems to be doing. Ok, boggle and tetris are "just games", but thats not the point. mike> So you can see where we have to go. Terry raised the issue that mike> renaming, rather than just removing, things would be desirable. Yes, renaming is an alternative, as is moving affected parts to a site elsewhere in the world. US law does not apply everywhere in the world (yet). cjs> action to stop it, he risks loosing the trademark. Thus, a trademark cjs> owner is basically obliged to ask misusers to desist, and even sue cjs> them if they refuse. The necessity for perennial vigilance seems to be an artifact of the US legal system. This is not true for other legal systems, where a trademark can be "owned" without so much hassle. FreeBSD folks, you are seeing just the tip of the iceberg. Did you know that *a huge number* words and phrases in the english language have been trademarked or servicemarked on way or the other in the US? Large companies in the US spend tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars in trademark searches. The process of locating an unencumbered word or phrase takes months and keeps getting more expensive as time goes by. Choosing a new product name or trademark is risk-prone enough that a few companies require VP level approval for the decision. By a first estimate, 50%-75% of the FreeBSD source tree could be (read: will require to be) litigated against on the basis of "trademark violations." What are you going to do? jkh> It's the "affiliation" with ftp.cdrom.com and the bazillion search jkh> engines out there empowering lawyers like Hasbro's daily in finding It may be wise to disallow WWW indexing/access to the source tree. I suspect that if it isn't visible within two mouse clicks, you're probably safe. Koshy My Personal Opinions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 15 00:02:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA18516 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:02:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA18428; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:02:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA01524; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:58:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802150758.XAA01524@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: A Joseph Koshy cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, cjs@portal.ca Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:15:03 +0530." <199802150744.XAA22883@palrel1.hp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:58:19 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >>>> "Mike Smith" writes > > mike> - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few > > Yes, that may not be such a good idea. > > Miracles do happen; e.g:- the McLibel case (http://www.mcspotlight.org/), > but to bet on such a thing wouldn't be wise :). Yes. I can just see the core team beggaring themselves for the next two or three years over the game of Boggle. > mike> - Give in. > > Which is what FreeBSD seems to be doing. Ok, boggle and tetris are > "just games", but thats not the point. Why is it that people think that this is such a black and white case? Anyone would think that this was a Hollywood production. Wake up and smell the catfood; this is *real*life*. The name "Boggle" BELONGS to Hasbro. You can pule all you like, but ultimately they have the law on their side. "Fighting" this might be terribly dramatic, but it's also terribly stupid. > mike> So you can see where we have to go. Terry raised the issue that > mike> renaming, rather than just removing, things would be desirable. > > Yes, renaming is an alternative, as is moving affected parts to a site > elsewhere in the world. US law does not apply everywhere in the world > (yet). Fine. Take the parts, put them somewhere else. I think you'll find that trademark law is prettymuch the same everywhere. > cjs> action to stop it, he risks loosing the trademark. Thus, a trademark > cjs> owner is basically obliged to ask misusers to desist, and even sue > cjs> them if they refuse. > > The necessity for perennial vigilance seems to be an artifact of the US legal > system. This is not true for other legal systems, where a trademark can > be "owned" without so much hassle. So? The ultimate result is the same; the name belongs to someone else, and we can't use it. > FreeBSD folks, you are seeing just the tip of the iceberg. Did you know > that *a huge number* words and phrases in the english language have been > trademarked or servicemarked on way or the other in the US? Large companies > in the US spend tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars in trademark searches. Fortunately, you appear not to quite have grasped the way that contemporary trademark law works. In addition to the name matching, the *category* has to match too. If I own the trademark "grep", for my brand of unique fractal-pattern rubber gloves, I am not in a situation where the grep(1) utility's name conflicts. If I own the service mark "NCR Control" for my cash register repair business, likewise. There aren't too many consumer products whose category space conflicts with FreeBSD. Games are one of the few, and we can happily live without them. > By a first estimate, 50%-75% of the FreeBSD source tree could be (read: will > require to be) litigated against on the basis of "trademark violations." Wrong. Not only wrong, but so completely wrong to almost certainly be intentionally inflammatory. > What are you going to do? Nothing. I didn't flinch during the last planetary alignment either. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message