From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 00:58:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA18461 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 00:58:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA18452 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 00:58:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20154; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 09:57:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806210757.JAA20154@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: from Hellmuth Michaelis at "Jun 21, 98 02:58:45 am" To: hm@kts.org Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 09:57:16 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Hellmuth Michaelis who wrote: > Søren Schmidt wrote: > > > The problem with pcvt is that it is lacking further and further > > behind > > Behind what and where ?? Added functionality that our users expect us to have. > > it is abandoned by its author, > > This is not true. ???? I have not seen anything from your hand on that since years ago.... > Pcvt just works and thats it. With THAT attitude we really have no options, now do we ?? *sigh* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 00:59:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA18530 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 00:59:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA18521 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 00:59:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20160; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 09:58:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806210758.JAA20160@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: <24188.898407643@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jun 20, 98 10:40:43 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 09:58:37 +0200 (CEST) Cc: pechter@shell.monmouth.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who wrote: > > PCVT will die here when it's ripped from my cvs repository > > over my dead body. 8-) > > What if syscons grew the ability to have dynamically loadable terminal > emulations and a vt100 implementation of same - would that change your > decision? Well, It has been on my TODO list for ages, but never bubbled up to the top... Infact I have an older version that supports both loadabel emulation & ioctl handeling... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 02:38:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA25848 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 02:38:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from noether.blah.org (mp-9-13.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.57.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA25843 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 02:38:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ada@noether.lab.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from ada@localhost) by noether.blah.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19251 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:37:28 +1000 (EST) From: Ada Message-Id: <199806210937.TAA19251@noether.blah.org> Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: From Sue Blake at "Jun 17, 98 01:00:14 am" To: sue@welearn.com.au (Sue Blake) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:36:10 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: ada@bsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 01:00:14 +1000 > From: Sue Blake > Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? > On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 04:20:51AM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > Some packages are useful to have right away. I've done nearly a dozen > > reinstalls in the past few days. The first time I installed every > > package which looked remotely interesting, and in hindsight thought > > that was stupid. However, in a later install I installed *none* of > > the packages, and immediately regretted that decision too. I wanted > > to create initial accounts with a bash shell, for instance, but that > > doesn't work great if you didn't install bash. And the first thing > > after rebooting I ftp a tar-file of various scripts I'm used to using, > > but some of them don't work because I don't have perl5 installed yet. Create a port, and in it have dependencies to things like bash and perl5 . then, when you've installed, just do cd /usr/ports/misc rsh remote zcat foo.tar.gz | tar -xf - cd foo make and it should automagically make bash and perl5 and stuff for you, and suchnot. Is there some way to have packages/ports automake upon selection of an option? eg, if during the user creation utility, someone selects /bin/scsh, then the scsh package is autoinstalled. just to give the impression of a full system at start without having to install everything :) > Yes, many of us have tried and regretted those two extremes. I'd like > to see bash pushed hard during installation. It's only small and makes > everything a lot easier for those from a microsoft or Linux background. bash is A) huge B) GPL. I'd like to see zsh pushed for inclusion into the contrib tree; it's small, beautiful, and inclusive (in that it understands a fair amount of csh as well as sh syntax). Ada. -- "It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English -- up to fifty words used in correct context -- no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese." -- Carl Sagan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 03:56:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA03465 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 03:56:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA03452 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 03:55:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA27395; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 06:29:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199806211029.GAA27395@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: I2C bus In-Reply-To: <19980620120606.44000@breizh.prism.uvsq.fr> from Nicolas Souchu at "Jun 20, 98 12:06:06 pm" To: Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr (Nicolas Souchu) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 06:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Cc: dufault@hda.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mbouget@club-internet.fr X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >If someone is interested in working toward a bit-banging (i.e., > >line printer port etc) implementation then they should look at the > >i2cslave code in that tar ball and consider what it would take to > >make a non-blocking state driven master similar to the non-blocking > >state driven slave that it now implements. > > What would be the purpose of such a driver in kernel? > Polling takes all the cpu. We'd like rather have the PCF8584 connected to > the parallel port. No - the support is state machine driven. You call the state machine at a given frequency and it does what it should without hogging the CPU. Using the terminology "polling" and "busy waiting" this software polls but never busy-waits. For the I2C slave you have to call the state machine pretty fast to detect a start condition at full I2C speeds, but a single master such as most people could use wouldn't have that restriction and you could run it at whatever rate you required. You don't have to have special hardware such as the PCF8584 bus controller. The multimedia group already use busy waiting I2C support for talking to tuner chips, EEPROM, etc. Obviously for talking IP over I2C you'll want the hardware support for detecting addressing and serialing the data, but for configuring a tuner or driving an LCD controller a well designed non-blocking master that needs no special hardware would be useful. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 04:16:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07679 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 04:16:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA07672 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 04:16:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14433; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 11:46:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199806211046.LAA14433@awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Charles Mott , Ari Suutari Subject: CUSEEME Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed ; boundary="==_Exmh_-12780776480" Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 11:46:45 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multipart MIME message. --==_Exmh_-12780776480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Is anyone in a position to test these patches to libalias ? I have no way of testing them myself, but the job looked so straight forward that I thought I'd give it a shot. I've attached the patches because they're reasonably small (<4k). The patches are against libalias in -current. If you're not running -current, you can download the latest ppp from http://www.Awfulhak.org/ppp/ and use the libalias from there. The patched libalias *should* provide CUSEEME support for more than one host behind a natd/ppp -alias gateway, but I must stress, I've no way of testing it here. Thanks. -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... --==_Exmh_-12780776480 Content-Type: application/x-gzip ; name="libalias.tar.gz" Content-Description: libalias.tar.gz Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="libalias.tar.gz" H4sIAEp7gDUAA+1XbW/bRhLO1+pXDNqilWxalpzEaSvbKE1RFg+yqONLXKMoWJpcWttQpEou HfiK/PfOLEmLsuS7Aoe0XzhILGpnd/Z5npnZpfyY+7kXFDljK9YPXn0OGw4Gp6dv4BWgDd9V nyflJ9q71+iE07dvBoN3b94O3qLz9XD49hUMPguaZ1bkws8AXt1l3E/+y7yM5czPguXfgelv tOODow4cgJauHzN+vxTQDXow/P777+CSBAE7XbEshzMpz4/qx6iIl/6HfprdX9C6PfaRiyWI JQOfh5BGEKQhg48ZF4IlcPf4wqp/FQkPlhxs1TGncPZb+fVHPxcs6Adp/7f1BcE6Vejvuz5F UeMYJOYcKDnZAwtpnFwWC3kuMn5XCJ4m4CchYIUDTyBPiyxgcuSOJ372CFGarXKlhJ1m8jMt BEVZpSGPeOBTDAX8jMGaZSsiEsI6Sx94iA9i6QtJN0rjOP3Ik3tknIScFuUUhdatmPiBnof9 Z9ByUqjCJIVaYT0iHeEjViniXfpArio9lXpJKnjAFJzBc4gxXil0va2kt40JNw1in2MypXYn u0Bww4YiNRDkGRYI7vNggZJlFSlMg2LFEuHXSTvGfKToz2DlC4YVGOcb4Z/qrEmjLgBnathg mxPnRrV0wOeFZb43xvoYLm/RqYPqOlPTAnU+Bs2cO5Zx6TqmZcOvv6o2zv/2W3LJKpvfgv7T wtJtG3CBcb2YGRgG41rq3DF0WwFjrs3csTG/UgCjwNx0YGZcGw5Oc0yFtqNAuyvBnMC1bmlT /KpeGjPDuZWAJoYzp+0mBBAWquUYmjtTLVi41sK0ZTSiNTZsbaYa1/q4DwgCNwb9vT53wJ6q s1mTJv7bYnmpI0L1ciZDyW2Q5diwdM0hOpsnDTVDcDMF7IWuGfSg/6QjE9W6Vaqwtv5vFyeh k6KN1Wv1Crl1/4cqmBDNtfRrwos62O6l7RiO6+hwZZpjm0JheFu33huabo9gZtpSMNfWFdzE UeX2GAXVQjc+X7q2IXUz5o5uWe7CMcx5jwJNzRsUBsGquHosNTbnkjNqZFq3FJf0kClQ4Gaq 47hFkkrVVNLCRvU0h6I1ZuKuqKfTIAtz/WpmXOlzTSevSYFuDFvvYcYMmyYY5c436q3k6Er6 lCvEVj42SleRGQVjAur4vUHgq8lYB7ZR1Yw5oUi2q00r9asu+OJrI/waP487na94EsQFni9n +WN+LB7XLO8vLxrDCRMc/x/zxMMZYvWS94Xx9f7xIpSOjedLX75vxGngx/3ll53OMd497pHN 2DWDsS98mDI/xIZH0NjVRSAgKLxlOfZHh06JwuOJGJ56AkKWCy/yVzx+HO1zrdNMNByvT9BR evwwzEpPvWB/mH0RNms3Yzn7/fnSVX6/Awr5eaT9zjZ+8IEJL2bJqPNpJEUx13hbammCOhZs V5Q0eEmUIOZ4hHpBWiRiRC4MNi9WdziVzmXpRdZRCmWonKLusPGStAQZLPHtCO/OzEv8Ffv5 ZPBLY7y+dn9+88uovshxuyj27/FGfcAXBzrIc1FEkQJMBLRVxW8XSIHRmmkvecgJf+xJAcvz pz3lrloZsfLVrLZxfreFc1LiXGf4soHX0h0XEWdxqFT5AKlh3gT+kPKwo1IJT/F6ipnmyso1 C9GtYPM1HKz5WqlIQVXvPPkAB/S31yEylRPbYxliWosQYyPBEM6h+8zX63Ylh4MehoVD6OLH 0QVfe8sYzs7gpNejhPCoW4RHF8XSK7CK4OIccv4flkbd503U61Vq7nTXQVCMmp4mcpxFDxIl alo0cDYC9BADIhz2qtaK8GWyOLqgjPQ6per1dwrwlM/eFRNSVLXMXVcK1c+rNq32LKGcw4Qn oRuunWBNstdq5FmgAMYZY3tvhVE6+143a6tEC6nRFRjglbfAK8UxPXe8qGjsNTzRoiRkEV5r 3uTGW7hzbdog7ZWprmcviiRYTm6macyenKPOVwzfkSKc9Knz6cXSMpKXKgtPaqlkii9j+N4W e6XOjfKqZ5SZrM+tPbX3cjXsHDcHadCc32jSg4CTpyxWpCbLklpcZnCDocorZrLOXZiL/gbf /9EFf6kw06AxqUGsh6l5mhTwZqQmy14XA9TTkCbNq6DJ9Y02lMSpIOoJuPLsnBbVTYhtSx3x dCc12+RpcLtXttLdkE0GS0S6zMuQ9V3Tg/NzGA6GdWg697CD5Gs5wkruGeDPj+fHJtCPgC6J MBg98euiKsS8IgHffAMczlDDo4vtW4cfHioo4eHhpgWIKS97n7Y53+K0Uxy1PpUazYV/TYvS 7jLmf9gMfKp67Z/+zd1aa6211lprrbXWWmuttdZaa6211lprrbXWWmuf2/4EvsZGoQAoAAA= --==_Exmh_-12780776480 Content-Type: application/x-patch ; name="libalias.patch" Content-Description: libalias.patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="libalias.patch" Index: Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/lib/libalias/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.6 diff -u -r1.6 Makefile --- Makefile 1998/05/24 03:03:09 1.6 +++ Makefile 1998/06/12 00:07:27 @@ -2,8 +2,8 @@ SHLIB_MAJOR= 2 SHLIB_MINOR= 5 CFLAGS+=-Wall -I${.CURDIR} -SRCS= alias.c alias_db.c alias_ftp.c alias_irc.c alias_util.c alias_old.c \ - alias_nbt.c +SRCS= alias.c alias_cuseeme.c alias_db.c alias_ftp.c alias_irc.c \ + alias_nbt.c alias_old.c alias_util.c MAN3=libalias.3 Index: alias.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/lib/libalias/alias.c,v retrieving revision 1.7 diff -u -r1.7 alias.c --- alias.c 1998/06/10 00:26:19 1.7 +++ alias.c 1998/06/12 00:34:47 @@ -99,6 +99,7 @@ #define FTP_CONTROL_PORT_NUMBER 21 #define IRC_CONTROL_PORT_NUMBER_1 6667 #define IRC_CONTROL_PORT_NUMBER_2 6668 +#define CUSEEME_PORT_NUMBER 7648 /* The following macro is used to update an @@ -623,6 +624,9 @@ &ud->uh_dport ); } + if (ntohs(ud->uh_dport) == CUSEEME_PORT_NUMBER) + AliasHandleCUSeeMeIn(pip, original_address); + /* If UDP checksum is not zero, then adjust since destination port */ /* is being unaliased and destination port is being altered. */ if (ud->uh_sum != 0) @@ -667,6 +671,9 @@ alias_address = GetAliasAddress(link); alias_port = GetAliasPort(link); + + if (ntohs(ud->uh_dport) == CUSEEME_PORT_NUMBER) + AliasHandleCUSeeMeOut(pip, link); /* If NETBIOS Datagram, It should be alias address in UDP Data, too */ if (ntohs(ud->uh_dport) == NETBIOS_DGM_PORT_NUMBER Index: alias_local.h =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/lib/libalias/alias_local.h,v retrieving revision 1.5 diff -u -r1.5 alias_local.h --- alias_local.h 1998/06/06 21:52:37 1.5 +++ alias_local.h 1998/06/12 00:38:41 @@ -92,6 +92,8 @@ void AliasHandleIrcOut(struct ip *pip, struct alias_link *link, int maxsize ); void AliasHandleUdpNbt(struct ip *, struct alias_link *, struct in_addr *, u_short); void AliasHandleUdpNbtNS(struct ip *, struct alias_link *, struct in_addr *, u_short *, struct in_addr *, u_short *); +void AliasHandleCUSeeMeOut(struct ip *, struct alias_link *); +void AliasHandleCUSeeMeIn(struct ip *, struct in_addr); --==_Exmh_-12780776480-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 04:22:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08391 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 04:22:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08364; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 04:22:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pechter@shell.monmouth.com) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id HAA18436; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:21:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199806211121.HAA18436@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: PCVT's death To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806201844.UAA14394@sos.freebsd.dk> from "Søren Schmidt" at Jun 20, 98 08:44:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > In reply to Bill/Carolyn Pechter who wrote: > > Well, most machines support at386/ansi/pcansi/scoansi those will do... Not RSTS/E, RSX11-M and Vax/Vms. Everything is not Unix. Some newbridge routers use vt100 emulation in the console software. > Well, console drivers are nowadays only used as a bootstrap into > X for most people, so a task like this is not likely to happen, > there is more important things to do... > > Well, try to run X on a router 386/25 with 8mb of memory. PCVT is very useful if you are talking to non-Unix machines. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 07:02:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21126 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:02:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21108 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:02:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ernie!bert.kts.org!hm@ppp.net) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc2.ppp.net [194.64.12.42]) by mail.ppp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA15337 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:02:02 +0200 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0ynkgz-002ZjcC; Sun, 21 Jun 98 16:02 MET DST Received: from bert.kts.org(really [194.55.156.2]) by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with smtp id for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:23:06 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #3 built 1998-Feb-14) Received: by bert.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:18:10 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #1 built 1998-Jun-6) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: <199806210757.JAA20154@sos.freebsd.dk> from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= at "Jun 21, 98 09:57:16 am" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:18:10 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Søren Schmidt wrote: > > > The problem with pcvt is that it is lacking further and further > > > behind > > > > Behind what and where ?? > > Added functionality that our users expect us to have. So, you mean to upgrade to VT320. > ???? I have not seen anything from your hand on that since years ago.... > > > Pcvt just works and thats it. > > With THAT attitude we really have no options, now do we ?? *sigh* Is there any reason to make a VT220 emulation more complete than complete ? I don't see the point, really. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe A duck is like a bicycle because they both have two wheels except the duck (terry@cs.weber.edu) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 07:33:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA23770 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:33:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA23763 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:33:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00255; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:32:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806211432.QAA00255@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: from Hellmuth Michaelis at "Jun 21, 98 03:18:10 pm" To: hm@kts.org Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:32:25 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Hellmuth Michaelis who wrote: > Søren Schmidt wrote: > > > > > The problem with pcvt is that it is lacking further and further > > > > behind > > > > > > Behind what and where ?? > > > > Added functionality that our users expect us to have. > > So, you mean to upgrade to VT320. Nope. > > > Pcvt just works and thats it. > > > > With THAT attitude we really have no options, now do we ?? *sigh* > > Is there any reason to make a VT220 emulation more complete than complete ? > > I don't see the point, really. Try broadening your mind a bit then, and see what "the competition" offers. The console device is much more that just an emulator... Well I guess there is no point in argueing this, we will see what the future brings... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 09:07:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00315 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 09:07:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA00309 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 09:07:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id MAA18265; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:07:00 -0400 Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:07:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Open Systems Networking cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TweakDUN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 20 Jun 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, spork wrote: > > > I can't think of anywhere this is true. I'll use our dialup pools as an > > example: > > > > modem-> dialup PPP 1500 -> term server -> ethernet 1500 -> router -> T1(s) > > HDLC 1500 -> core router -> fast ethernet 1500 -> upstream's border > > router -> FDDI 40?? -> upstream core router -> ATM/SONET/whatever ? > > > > Generally, one avoids small MTUs on big links, I beleive. ATM's small > > cell size makes *every* packet get fragmented at layer 2, but I'm not sure > > that's even relevant. > > > > Anyone else? I've never heard of the oft quoted "Internet standard MTU of > > 576"... > > Me either, and theres a reason. Its braind dead to do so. Im REALLY tired > right now so im not gonna crack open stevens and quote it. Anyone using an MTU > of 576 destroys performance on bulk transfers such as FTP and and the > like. The ONLY good an MTU of 576 is good for is interactive traffic, like > telnet. At least thats how I have always understood it. For an excercise > the reader can change his MTU from 1500 to 576 and test FTP, and telnet > over it, then switch back to 1500 and do the same. If you do the > calculations of an MTU of 576 and figure in latency. On bulk transfers of > an MTU of 1500 winds over 576. Because for each 1500 byte packet sent over > the MTU link with say a latency of 533ms for dialup, it would take 533ms > for a 1500 byte packet. Now if your using an MTU of 576 and transfer the > same 1500 byte packet with latency of 533ms, you have to send 3 packets of > 536 bytes @ 533ms latency each. It isnt rocket science to see why for > anything BUT interactive traffic where all your traffic will fit inside > your MTU your gonna loose and loose big. So why in gods name people think > an MTU of 576 is the "internet standard" AND their actually believing it > astonishes me. My math above maybe be incorrect but you get the idea. > Basically I chalk it up to uninformed admins on the loose, who need to be > put back in their cages. :) > Not to mention by fragmenting all your non-interactive traffic your > creating insane ammounts of traffic. 3 packets at an MTU of 576 or 1 > packet at 1500. tripple the traffic. Well you can tell im tired cause im > ranting and probably making no sense. So im going to bed. > Ill probably kick myself for what I just wrote when I read it in the > morning but I am sure some of its right. The reason you lower MTU and MRU on modem links is the problem with your media. It's unreliable to transmit large packets cleanly. 576 is probably too low, but keeps your retransmit levels to a bare minimum. Line noise on modems is an unfortunate reality. Large packet sizes are more likely to be hit by this and have to be retransmitted. I use an MRU of 1024 at home, and find it to be about the best for overall throughput. The best method for this is changing the MRU/MTU on your links, and running tests. The cleaner your pnone line, the higher you can reliably go. I have friends who run their MRU at 768 because that's what works best for them. For an ISP to force everyone to the LCD is unacceptable. Get a new ISP. Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 10:02:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05371 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 10:02:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tim.xenologics.com (tim.xenologics.com [194.77.5.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA05365 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 10:02:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seggers@semyam.dinoco.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tim.xenologics.com (8.8.5/8.8.8) with UUCP id SAA08422; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:57:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by semyam.dinoco.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21484; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:47:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from seggers@semyam.dinoco.de) Message-Id: <199806211647.SAA21484@semyam.dinoco.de> To: Steven Yang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, seggers@semyam.dinoco.de Subject: Re: memory question In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:54:20 EDT." <839A86AB6CE4D111A52200104B938D435B40@MOE> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:47:23 +0200 From: Stefan Eggers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > (hopefully more than 1GB). Unfortunately, I have run into a problem > where no process seems to be able to use more than 16MB of RAM. gdbm Have a look at login.conf(5) and make appropriate changes to it or use limit in csh(1) (same for tcsh) or ulimit in sh(1) (same for pdksh and bash) to change the settings just for a few selected processes. Stefan. -- Stefan Eggers Lu4 yao2 zhi1 ma3 li4, Max-Slevogt-Str. 1 ri4 jiu3 jian4 ren2 xin1. 51109 Koeln Federal Republic of Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 11:27:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13443 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 11:27:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terror.hungry.com (qmailr@terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA13438 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 11:27:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fn@hungry.com) Received: (qmail 29859 invoked by uid 507); 21 Jun 1998 18:27:56 -0000 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death References: <199806211432.QAA00255@sos.freebsd.dk> From: Faried Nawaz Date: 21 Jun 1998 11:27:55 -0700 In-Reply-To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG's message of 21 Jun 1998 07:56:17 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.16 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sos@FreeBSD.ORG (Sxren Schmidt) writes: Try broadening your mind a bit then, and see what "the competition" offers. The console device is much more that just an emulator... Well I guess there is no point in argueing this, we will see what the future brings... It would help if you enumerated what syscons offers now and will offer in the (near) future. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 12:21:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18275 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:21:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xena.mindspring.com (xena.mindspring.com [207.69.142.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18269 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:21:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsanders@xena.mindspring.com) Received: (from rsanders@localhost) by xena.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA24842; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:21:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Sanders To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TweakDUN References: <199806200644.XAA24111@stennis.ca.sandia.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 21 Jun 1998 15:21:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV's message of "Fri, 19 Jun 1998 23:44:51 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 25 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.4/XEmacs 20.3(beta19) - "Kiev" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV (Bruce A. Mah) writes: > I don't use dialups very often nowadays, but I dimly remember trying to > negotiate a *smaller* MTU on a downlink, in order to try to get better > interactive performance (mumble mumble, use IP TOS bits and smarter queueing, Reordering packets doesn't help on a dialup link if you have a bulk transfer going with 1500 byte packets. Even if you put "interactive" priority packets at the head of the queue, you may already have a 1500 byte packet in progress. Worse, most modems have significant local buffering to accomodate MNP/v.42bis compression so there may be even *more* than one packet's worth of delay depending on exactly how close to the wire the queuing algorithm lives. Some people have proposed "fragmenting" the packets at layer 2 (or 2.5, whatever PPP is) with MP so that interactive packets can be inserted into the middle, but I can't say off the top of my head whether that's going to be any more efficient than just using IP fragmentation and/or a small MSS. Somebody else already pointed out that VJ header compression significantly reduces packet overhead. On the other hand, with my network architect's hat on I don't like the idea of tripling the rate of packets per sec through already busy major exchanges and core routers. regards, -- Robert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 12:34:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19351 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:34:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beatrice.rutgers.edu (beatrice.rutgers.edu [165.230.209.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA19334 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:33:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu) Received: (from easmith@localhost) by beatrice.rutgers.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA27644; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:30:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Allen Smith" Message-Id: <9806211530.ZM27643@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:30:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: Joel Ray Holveck "Re: PCVT's death" (Jun 20, 8:51pm) References: <9806202009.ZM28687@beatrice.rutgers.edu> <199806210151.UAA21537@detlev.UUCP> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: joelh@gnu.org Subject: Re: PCVT's death Cc: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk, fullermd@futuresouth.com, lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jun 20, 8:51pm, Joel Ray Holveck (possibly) wrote: > > >> You don't need root access, man termcap. > > man termcap > > No manual entry found for termcap. > > You were saying? > > termcap(3) is fine 2.2.6 and -current. Try man tgetent, or > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=termcap if you prefer. > > (The bottom line is that ~/.termcap is searched.) Umm... what makes you think I'm needing to telnet to a _FreeBSD_ system? The above was on an IRIX machine. As well as UNIXen such as IRIX that don't have termcap (using terminfo or similar), there are also VAXes, etcetera. -Allen -- Allen Smith easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 12:42:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20024 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:42:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20019; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:42:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01739; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:40:35 +0200 (CEST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dyson@iquest.net Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Jun 1998 17:22:13 PDT." <199806210022.RAA10841@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:40:35 +0200 Message-ID: <1737.898458035@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199806210022.RAA10841@rah.star-gate.com>, Amancio Hasty writes: > >Curious, are any of the core members interested in having John >come back --- in particular I am interested in hearing from >JKH and PKH I don't think John wants to come back, that is probably the most important thing. But second to this, I think Johns ambitions are incompatible with FreeBSDs and consequently, it would probably be a bad idea. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 12:57:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21750 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:57:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tim.xenologics.com (tim.xenologics.com [194.77.5.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21729; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:57:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seggers@semyam.dinoco.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tim.xenologics.com (8.8.5/8.8.8) with UUCP id VAA24986; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:55:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by semyam.dinoco.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04047; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:50:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from seggers@semyam.dinoco.de) Message-Id: <199806211950.VAA04047@semyam.dinoco.de> Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Stefan Eggers To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: package sizes (was: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Jun 1998 21:56:34 PDT." <24004.898404994@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:50:40 +0200 From: Stefan Eggers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The most important question first: How is the opinion on doing this > > with a precomputed package size table on the CD? Would it be worth to > Depends mostly on how well integrated the creation and actual usage of > this table was, I guess! Diffs are always happily reviewed, at least. :) I am now investigating the possibility of pkg_create doing the size calculations based on the packing list. The patch suggested on the ports mailing list with the "grep Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27190 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 13:48:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27170 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 13:48:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00869; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:45:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806212045.WAA00869@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: <9806211530.ZM27643@beatrice.rutgers.edu> from Allen Smith at "Jun 21, 98 03:30:43 pm" To: easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu (Allen Smith) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:45:35 +0200 (CEST) Cc: joelh@gnu.org, njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk, fullermd@futuresouth.com, lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Allen Smith who wrote: > On Jun 20, 8:51pm, Joel Ray Holveck (possibly) wrote: > > > > termcap(3) is fine 2.2.6 and -current. Try man tgetent, or > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=termcap if you prefer. > > > > (The bottom line is that ~/.termcap is searched.) > > Umm... what makes you think I'm needing to telnet to a _FreeBSD_ > system? The above was on an IRIX machine. As well as UNIXen such as > IRIX that don't have termcap (using terminfo or similar), there are > also VAXes, etcetera. On Irix, Solaris, SVR4 you set your TERMCAP/TERMINFO evironment var to your own termcap/terminfo file containing a cons25 or similar, if the system doesn't have an AT386 or semilar type. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 13:55:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27871 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 13:55:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27863 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 13:55:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00892; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:54:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806212054.WAA00892@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: from Faried Nawaz at "Jun 21, 98 11:27:55 am" To: self@id.hungry.com (Faried Nawaz) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:54:11 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Faried Nawaz who wrote: > sos@FreeBSD.ORG (Sxren Schmidt) writes: > > Try broadening your mind a bit then, and see what "the competition" > offers. The console device is much more that just an emulator... > > Well I guess there is no point in argueing this, we will see what > the future brings... > > It would help if you enumerated what syscons offers now and will offer in > the (near) future. On top of my head there is (in no particular order): Generalized mouse support (done). Cut&paste on text screens (done). Accent keys (dead keys) (done). Bitmap display (partly done, 800x600 display on VESA cards). Simple graphics primitive library. To come: VESA modes (text & graphics). Multi-head consoles. Emulator & ioctl as modules (ie very small X only console, or vt100 emu). Simple GUI library. USB keyboard support. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 14:02:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28788 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles145.castles.com [208.214.165.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28765; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:02:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01030; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806211957.MAA01030@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Amancio Hasty Jr cc: nirva@ishiboo.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Jun 1998 23:22:22 PDT." <199806190622.XAA26800@netcom18.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:57:00 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Coming to think about it . I am beginning to see your point : > moused is unsuitable for our purposes and it will best to start > a new with a well architected daemon which is capable of > providing multiple services from multiple input sources. Actually, moused is quite amenable to the manipulation required to make it fully modular. If you (generic) have the time to do it, nobody is going to complain. Meanwhile, we have support for another peripheral. Stop complaining and start helping. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 14:11:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00224 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:11:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00208; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10615; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:10:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806212110.OAA10615@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mike Smith cc: Amancio Hasty Jr , nirva@ishiboo.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 12:57:00 PDT." <199806211957.MAA01030@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:10:50 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nice Try!! I am working on a new daemon and in fact I am coding it right now . As for moused being a flexible modular daemon I disagree. Amancio > > Coming to think about it . I am beginning to see your point : > > moused is unsuitable for our purposes and it will best to start > > a new with a well architected daemon which is capable of > > providing multiple services from multiple input sources. > > Actually, moused is quite amenable to the manipulation required to make > it fully modular. If you (generic) have the time to do it, nobody is > going to complain. > > Meanwhile, we have support for another peripheral. Stop complaining > and start helping. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 14:18:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01239 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles145.castles.com [208.214.165.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01231; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:18:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03183; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 11:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806211851.LAA03183@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper), nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:06:36 +0200." <199806181306.PAA22009@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 11:51:06 -0700 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA01233 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > And it has NO business in moused whatsoever, its a hack and it doesn't > belong there. I'm sorry I havn't noticed this before, but its should be > ripped out ASAP, I would never have allowed it in there if I had > found out before. Actually, no. The MouseRemote is a mouse, amongst other things, and it's specifically intended to be connected inline with mice. As such, our protocol handler for mouse data streams is the correct place to put it. Ripping it out without simultaneously coming up with an equally functional and architecturally 'better' solution is not going to endear you to anyone. I did actually propose to Randall the implementation of a stackable 'interception' layer, again to be managed by moused, however with only one device (so far) in this particular circumstance, it didn't seem worth the effort. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 14:20:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01490 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:20:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles145.castles.com [208.214.165.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01404; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:19:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01135; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 13:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806212015.NAA01135@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr), nirva@ishiboo.com, rhh@ct.picker.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 19 Jun 1998 18:08:03 +0200." <199806191608.SAA01533@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 13:15:05 -0700 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA01419 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > And about leaving, well, I'm afraid you guys will have to stick > with me :), I'm going to shake this (FreeBSD) out as long as it > takes, or until somebody carries me out screaming :) Good. So I don't have to pull any punches. 8) > On that note, I think we badly need a "house clean" through > the entire system, especially the kernel, but also parts of > userland, we have way to much crap in there because of not > thinking things through before pulling the trigger. If my 12+ > years in this business has learned me anything its the 80/20 > rule: think it through for 80% of the time then use 20% of > the time to implement it correctly. There hasn't been 12 years of communal software development at this level. What there has been suggests to me that a better approach is to spend 5% of the time implementing it as quickly as possible. 65% of the time arguing about why the implementation sucks, 20% of the time on abortive reimplementations and then 10% on doing it better. This 10% is then the leading 5% for the next iteration. > Well, I probably wasn't on multimedia at that time, and that doesn't > make the hack more "right", besides there is only so many things > you can keep an eye on.. The MouseRemote support is no better or worse than the support for other not-very-mouselike things that are already in there. If you have time to design and implement a better, generic "input class" structure, be our guest. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 14:26:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02652 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (root@[208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02561 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:26:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-148.camalott.com [208.229.74.148] (may be forged)) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17177; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:20:30 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26009; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:20:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:20:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806212120.QAA26009@detlev.UUCP> To: easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu CC: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk, fullermd@futuresouth.com, lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <9806211530.ZM27643@beatrice.rutgers.edu> (easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu) Subject: Re: PCVT's death From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <9806202009.ZM28687@beatrice.rutgers.edu> <199806210151.UAA21537@detlev.UUCP> <9806211530.ZM27643@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>> You don't need root access, man termcap. >>> man termcap >>> No manual entry found for termcap. >>> You were saying? >> termcap(3) is fine 2.2.6 and -current. Try man tgetent, or >> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=termcap if you prefer. >> (The bottom line is that ~/.termcap is searched.) > Umm... what makes you think I'm needing to telnet to a _FreeBSD_ > system? The above was on an IRIX machine. As well as UNIXen such as > IRIX that don't have termcap (using terminfo or similar), there are > also VAXes, etcetera. I said nor implied you were telnetting to a FreeBSD machine. All I meant was that you can look at the man page on a FreeBSD machine (or on the web if for whatever reason you don't have man pages installed, or don't have FreeBSD), to see a feature that is in BSD-based termcap implementations since at least Net/2, and likely long before, whether or not they have said man page. We were suggesting a method that some of us have used when we have found ourselves in a similar spot. If it's not applicable to your situation, for whatever reason, then you may need to find a different solution. If you prefer, we will not make suggestions to you in the future if you haven't provided us with all the details we would need to tell if our solution would work. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 14:53:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07226 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:53:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07221 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:53:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA27049 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA19445 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00531 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id RAA02667 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:53:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199806212153.RAA02667@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Signal 10 when building kernel (2.2.6-R). Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just got the following when building a kernel on a newly installed machine: . . . cc -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -DAPM_BROKEN_STATCLOCK -DFAILSAFE -DCOMPAT_43 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DKERNEL -c vers.c loading kernel *** Signal 10 Stop. Since SIGNAL 10 isn't usually one of the ones that indicates any kind of hardware problem (and the machine was running 2.2.5-R just fine only yesterday) - I'm concerned that something has occurred between 2.2.5-R and 2.2.6-R. Opinions? - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 14:56:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07705 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:56:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07678 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:56:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA04239; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:48:54 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980622074850.57163@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:48:50 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: ada@bsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <199806210936.TAA19236@noether.blah.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199806210936.TAA19236@noether.blah.org>; from Ada on Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 07:36:10PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 07:36:10PM +1000, Ada wrote: > > Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 01:00:14 +1000 > > From: Sue Blake > > Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 04:20:51AM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > > Some packages are useful to have right away. I've done nearly a dozen > > > reinstalls in the past few days. The first time I installed every > > > package which looked remotely interesting, and in hindsight thought > > > that was stupid. However, in a later install I installed *none* of > > > the packages, and immediately regretted that decision too. I wanted > > > to create initial accounts with a bash shell, for instance, but that > > > doesn't work great if you didn't install bash. And the first thing > > > after rebooting I ftp a tar-file of various scripts I'm used to using, > > > but some of them don't work because I don't have perl5 installed yet. > > Create a port, and in it have dependencies to things like bash and perl5 > . then, when you've installed, just do Actually.... I've been doing some work on the idea of a package for newbies who wouldn't have a clue what to pick. Not everyone's cup of tea but better than no idea at all. The package would simply install about 8 other packages, make sure the FAQ, Handbook and man pages are there, plus Annelise's beginners tutorial, the vi tutorial package, a unix tutorial, lynx with a default start page that links to various kinds of documentation and sources of help, some heavily annotated configuration files (e.g. .bash_profile, .bashrc, .lynxrc, etc), and a brief docco saying what was installed what they do and where to read more about them (e.g. 'man vi' but 'info mtools' and just 'unzip'). Since at this stage I'm rather vague about shell scripts let alone packages, and I've seen several others come up with related ideas, this will proceed on the basis of "if nobody else does something similar before I learn how to do it". -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 14:57:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07848 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07840 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:57:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA27057 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA20085 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00738 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:28:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id SAA03050 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:02:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199806212202.SAA03050@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Signal 10 on kernel make.. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well - It's quite reproducible - I can't link the kernel. It seems 'make' gets the signal 10 (waiting on a non-existent child.) I scanned the 2.2.6-R Errata - doesn't seem to be anything there. - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 15:08:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09921 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09914 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA27086 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA21098 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00882 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id SAA03182 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:13:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199806212213.SAA03182@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Signal 10 on linking kernel.. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well - I thought it was make getting the signal #10 - but it's ld. Furthermore, I tried the 2.2.5 ld - it gets the signal #10 as well. Opinions? - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 15:25:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:25:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles145.castles.com [208.214.165.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12977; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01554; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806212120.OAA01554@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Amancio Hasty cc: Mike Smith , Amancio Hasty Jr , nirva@ishiboo.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:10:50 PDT." <199806212110.OAA10615@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:19:59 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Nice Try!! > > I am working on a new daemon and in fact I am coding it right now . Care to discuss your design? Having planned it all for Randall in the original MouseRemote design discussion, I've actually covered most of the issues already, and I'd be interested both in hearing what you were planning as well as sharing my work. > As for moused being a flexible modular daemon I disagree. I didn't say it was, I said it was amenable to being made that way. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 15:34:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14794 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:34:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14748; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:34:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01045; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:32:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806212232.AAA01045@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-Reply-To: <199806211851.LAA03183@antipodes.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jun 21, 98 11:51:06 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:32:28 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com, nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > And it has NO business in moused whatsoever, its a hack and it doesn't > > belong there. I'm sorry I havn't noticed this before, but its should be > > ripped out ASAP, I would never have allowed it in there if I had > > found out before. > > Actually, no. The MouseRemote is a mouse, amongst other things, and > it's specifically intended to be connected inline with mice. As such, > our protocol handler for mouse data streams is the correct place to put > it. Ripping it out without simultaneously coming up with an equally > functional and architecturally 'better' solution is not going to endear > you to anyone. Hmm. > I did actually propose to Randall the implementation of a stackable > 'interception' layer, again to be managed by moused, however with only > one device (so far) in this particular circumstance, it didn't seem > worth the effort. No but it would have been the right thing, now we have to defend moused against every crude hack that comes along, because of precedence :( It wouldn't have been THAT hard to do it right to begin with. I'm still saying its wrong, and bad engineering.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 15:37:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15285 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:37:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15221; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:36:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01054; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:35:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806212235.AAA01054@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-Reply-To: <199806212015.NAA01135@antipodes.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jun 21, 98 01:15:05 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:35:33 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@netcom.com, nirva@ishiboo.com, rhh@ct.picker.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > On that note, I think we badly need a "house clean" through > > the entire system, especially the kernel, but also parts of > > userland, we have way to much crap in there because of not > > thinking things through before pulling the trigger. If my 12+ > > years in this business has learned me anything its the 80/20 > > rule: think it through for 80% of the time then use 20% of > > the time to implement it correctly. > > There hasn't been 12 years of communal software development at this > level. What there has been suggests to me that a better approach is to > spend 5% of the time implementing it as quickly as possible. 65% of > the time arguing about why the implementation sucks, 20% of the time on > abortive reimplementations and then 10% on doing it better. > > This 10% is then the leading 5% for the next iteration. Get real :) > > Well, I probably wasn't on multimedia at that time, and that doesn't > > make the hack more "right", besides there is only so many things > > you can keep an eye on.. > > The MouseRemote support is no better or worse than the support for > other not-very-mouselike things that are already in there. If you have > time to design and implement a better, generic "input class" structure, > be our guest. Why should I do all the work ?? :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 15:41:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16149 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:41:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16030; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:40:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01060; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:36:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806212236.AAA01060@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-Reply-To: <199806212110.OAA10615@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Jun 21, 98 02:10:50 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:36:54 +0200 (CEST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hasty@netcom.com, nirva@ishiboo.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Amancio Hasty who wrote: > Nice Try!! > > I am working on a new daemon and in fact I am coding it right now . Cool!!, nice that somebody it listening... Go for it! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 15:46:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17283 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17178; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:46:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11028; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:45:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806212245.PAA11028@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mike Smith cc: Amancio Hasty Jr , nirva@ishiboo.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:19:59 PDT." <199806212120.OAA01554@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:45:57 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is not ready for public review however if you are interested where I am getting my inspiration , feel free to browse: http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html and it JAVA counterpart: http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/JACE.html Lots of cool stuff there to build a flexible and dynamically configurable daemon. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 15:51:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18339 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18296; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:51:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07936; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:45:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806212245.RAA07936@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) In-Reply-To: <1737.898458035@critter.freebsd.dk> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Jun 21, 98 09:40:35 pm" To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:45:09 -0500 (EST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dyson@iquest.net From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp said: > In message <199806210022.RAA10841@rah.star-gate.com>, Amancio Hasty writes: > > > >Curious, are any of the core members interested in having John > >come back --- in particular I am interested in hearing from > >JKH and PKH > > I don't think John wants to come back, that is probably the most > important thing. > That depends on the attitude of individuals in -core. My attitude is to move forward on something that will do the same kind of thing that I participated in on FreeBSD, and that is: given problems, solve them. The existing FreeBSD kernel needs work, but as any piece of software (except for the dinosaur-ware that seems to have the Y2K problems :-)) that is being actively developed, eventually needs to be revisited from scratch. > > But second to this, I think Johns ambitions are > incompatible with FreeBSDs and consequently, it would probably be > a bad idea. > Maybe, but I *am* working on a scalable and forward looking kernel that will perform about the same as a conventional kernel, except where the conventional kernel doesn't perform well at all. The abstractions that we are working on, work both on PC's, on SMP PC's, multiple machines (acting essentially as one machine), and even heterogeneous machines (in a limited fashion.) One requirement will be *BSD binary (and perhaps Linux binary) emulation (an additional API will be there to support drivers and other native applications, but not be the primary application API.) Also, there is going to be emulation of internal BSD kernels adequate to support significant sections of filesystem, and the networking stack. That emulation isn't native, but such emulation will be run as a kernel process. (Note the definitions of "process" and "threads" are very different with this kernel compared to conventional kernels. VM is also very different, and it appears that some amazing breakthroughs have been made in that area in the last few days. :-)). Those breakthroughs are mostly in that of "attitude" and not implementation yet, but it requires the "attitude" sort of breakthrough for significant progress. The emulation becomes much more sane, when it is recognized that kernel processes can have their own VM (or not.) Kernel threads might reside in their own processes, or not. Kernel threads do not necessarily incur the overhead of conventional kernel processes in conventional kernels. Drivers can reside in their own VM space or not, and are multi-threaded by their very nature. The Heidemann framework seems to be naturally supported by this kernel, even though we won't have that initially. The kernel will be ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ hosted with *BSD servers initially (it is appearing that *BSD ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ will be able to support a machine environment for the kernel), ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ but will eventually be able to run entirely on it's own as a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ server. This OS will be an obvious choice for anything between ^^^^^^ MASSIVE server complexes and NC's. The hosting of the kernel on *BSD ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ will allow much accelerated development without waiting for filesystem ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ or driver technology to materialize. The goal is for booting within ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ one month, but of course, that is very limited in features, and the drop-dead for a bootable kernel is two months. The questions being answered are being reviewed anew, and as I have stated before, continuing to force the issue (SMP) with the existing structure, only ends up with a structure that has been forced into a kernel. Concurrency and RT (which also includes things like proper multimedia streaming, etc) are very limited with current kernels, and adding a different priority scheduling scheme doesn't really fix any significant RT problems. In almost any technology business, part of the formula requires the support of forward looking work. If the support is used as some control of future direction, that can be used to advantage. I am also Bcc: this to our mailing list, not for discussion, but there are some new ideas in this message (as underlined), and just want to make those ideas available to the other contributors. Also, it is as a courtesy to them. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 15:51:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18392 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:51:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17835 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:49:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA04347; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:42:07 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980622084201.30984@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:42:01 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death References: <199806201645.MAA15443@shell.monmouth.com> <24237.898407963@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <24237.898407963@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sat, Jun 20, 1998 at 10:46:03PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jun 20, 1998 at 10:46:03PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Actually, I'd love to see a full vt100/220 emulation option put in to > > syscons to get a unified console driver -- but I'd be pretty > > Whoops! I didn't read this far down in your message before > replying - I guess my previous suggestion *would* change > your mind then, wouldn't it? :) > > I've been having this Really Devious Idea WRT the aformentioned topic > lately but I'm not sure if I should be saying anything more about it. :-) Just to add to the motivation... I've spoken to a few people lately who have several Linux boxes and started converting them to FreeBSD, then changed their minds. One complaint is that FreeBSD won't talk VT100 in a way the Linux boxes can understand, and vice versa. It's not so important where the blame lies. What is important is that this one inconvenience ("a FreeBSD bug") was sufficient to cause installation to a dozen machines to be cancelled, and it was reported as a warning to similar businesses who might have wanted to change over to FreeBSD. A pity. They didn't know about PCVT or screen at the time, but they knew too much about expecting to see bugs. A FAQ entry would help here. It seems that Linux should be fixable but many more skilled than I have tried and failed repeatedly. (I used to boot Linux or OS/2 to connect to my ISP before discovering screen, yuk!) Linux talks to "everything" OK except FreeBSD so who's going to bother looking for a fix. We can't do anything about wetware, but the decision becomes do we work around it or write those people off. It looks like soon we might not have to do either :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 15:54:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18987 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:54:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles145.castles.com [208.214.165.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18879; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:54:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01744; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806212149.OAA01744@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), rhh@ct.picker.com, nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:32:28 +0200." <199806212232.AAA01045@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:49:16 -0700 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA18915 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > I did actually propose to Randall the implementation of a stackable > > 'interception' layer, again to be managed by moused, however with only > > one device (so far) in this particular circumstance, it didn't seem > > worth the effort. > > No but it would have been the right thing, now we have to defend moused > against every crude hack that comes along, because of precedence :( That's my job, and I'm fully cognizant of that. > It wouldn't have been THAT hard to do it right to begin with. I tried; ask Randall. Given the alternatives (insist on purity and get nothing or accept what we're given for now and push for better later), I felt that something was better than nothing. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 15:55:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19172 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:55:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19153; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11076; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806212255.PAA11076@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@smith.net.au, hasty@netcom.com, nirva@ishiboo.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:36:54 +0200." <199806212236.AAA01060@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:55:48 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG No problem and I am actually having a good time at it. --------------- Say Randall, can you pretty please approach the XFree86 team to see if they can somehow fold in the X10 remote mouse support into the X server . Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 16:07:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21397 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:07:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA21375 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:07:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michael@memra.com) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA00523 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:07:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id QAA29580 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:06:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: LSMTP and Unix (fwd) Message-ID: Organization: Memra Communications Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why is this benchmark so slow on UNIX filesystems? Will they give out the source to the benchmark so that someone can test FreeBSD's performance and/or figure out if the benchmark is valid? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 13:12:38 -0700 From: MJG - inet-access Reply-To: inet-access@mailinglists.org To: "'inet-access@earth.com'" Subject: LSMTP and Unix Since the topic of ListServ and LSMTP came up a bit ago, I thought some of you might find this interesting (please no OS flamewars please!). Matt -----Original Message----- From: Eric Thomas [mailto:eric@LSOFT.COM] Sent: Sunday, June 21, 1998 4:56 AM >Are there any plans to port LSMTP to UNIX? ... The performance >of LSMTP and a UNIX operating system combined would be excellent! LSMTP is being ported to Solaris (SPARC only), AIX and Digital unix. We may add other systems when we are done with these three, but unlike LISTSERV there are serious technical porting issues and we also need to buy a high-end SMP systems with RAID and everything for stress tests. One of our programmers ported it to Linux for fun, but it crashed the thread library in various mystic ways and he gave up for now. Before you volunteer to help, he isn't *allowed* to spend any serious time on this until the other three systems are done :-) Sorry, but market demand dictates priorities. I don't know why people always assume that LSMTP will automatically run faster on unix. Other than pure application code, which is the same on all systems, LSMTP depends heavily on file I/O, network I/O and scheduling. NT has low overhead for all three. In practice the main source of wasted cycles is file I/O. Here are some figures for a LISTSERV benchmark that, while not designed specifically for LSMTP, measures the same kind of I/O that LSMTP does and has been shown to relate to LSMTP performance. Higher figures mean better performance, anything above 50 is very good. There are two different benchmarks, I'll write them down as xx/yy, it is not a ratio but two independent numbers on the same scale, and in practice you want to worry mainly about the second one, so I'll arrange the numbers in that order. First NT (all systems are 4.0 and with the $#%#%# 8.3 DOS compatibility kludge disabled, which is the first thing we do after installing NT on a fresh system): - 166MHz Pentium laptop with toy drive: 34/32 - 300MHz Pentium II with silly 5400rpm IDE drive: 57/54 - 200MHz Pentium Pro with entry-level RAID: 133/121 I have figures for faster CPUs, but they do not improve the results. You can see a difference from a 486 or Pentium to a Pentium II, but that's about as far as the CPU impacts the results. Here are some other systems: - SS20, SunOS 4.1.3, unknown drive: 8/3 - IP22, Irix 5.3, unknown drive: 15/5 - 90MHz Pentium, BSDi 2.0, 5400rpm drive: 7/7 - 90MHz Pentium, Linux 1.2.13, 5400rpm drive: 64/8 - 300MHz UltraSPARC-IIi, Solaris 2.6, 7200rpm drive: 9/9 - RS/6000 (can't figure out the frequency but old), AIX 4.0, undetermined drive: 24/20 - 233MHz Alpha (EV45), Digital unix 3.2, 5400rpm drive: 53/20 - HP 9000/889, HP-UX 10.x, RAID: 75/21 - 400MHz Alpha (EV56), VMS 7.1, RAID, clustered (adds overhead): 44/40 - 533MHz Alpha (EV56), Digital unix 4.0, RAID: 263/108 Obviously the RAID systems have the best numbers, but it is not as clean cut as with NT. Some systems have good numbers even without RAID, some have second rate numbers even with RAID (I have a lot more numbers but I also have work to do :-) ). Note that Digital unix has a revamped file system in 4.0, so you can't compare 4.0 and 3.2 directly (4.0 without RAID would be faster than 53/20). The general idea is that you don't want to use ufs with LSMTP, but even some of the non-ufs systems are slowish. My experience in correlating these numbers with LSMTP performance is that to get good performance without breaking records, you need to score around 30 at least on the first test and ideally on both. All NT systems do that, even the laptop! To break records, you need 100+ ideally, and no less than 50 on the second test. We still manage to break records on VMS, but without boring you with RMS details it is a unique file system with unique issues and in the end you can make it deliver roughly the same performance as a system scoring say 70, plus VMS was engineered for lots of asynchronous I/O and is faster in other areas, which compensates partly for RMS. Even so, the file system is by far the biggest bottleneck on VMS. VMS clearly outperformed NT with the previous generation of processors, now it's about even, and soon NT will take the lead (actually, I think Digital unix will take the lead, but it's too early to be sure, we only have partial lab results). One of the challenges we're facing is how to get the best out of the file system. For Digital unix we can simply tell people to use advfs, which they are probably doing anyway, for systems which only support or include ufs this is going to be a lot more delicate. People always blame us for the shortcomings of the hardware or software they chose without asking our advice ;-), so we know better than to assume it will be easy to explain. I can already hear people bellowing "WHAT??? 'ufs' is the most widely used file system blah blah how can you possibly not magically deliver the best performance on ufs when even NT is able blah blah..." :-( For some reason, people never say "WHAT??? Even NT is faster than ufs? Well, then I need to have a chat with the guy who sold me this box and said ufs was the fastest file system in the world and specifically mentioned being easily 10 times faster than NT!" :-) None of this is going to be an issue if you have a small workload, say 100-200k/day. It is only a problem when you decide to buy a really big box to deliver a whole bunch of mail. This posting will probably have been delivered to 98% of its recipients some 20 sec or so from when I hit "Send," and if it were to take 30 sec instead I am sure you would survive :-) On the other hand, if your large newsletter had to go out in 2h and it took 3h instead, it would be another story. Eric - To unsubscribe from this list, send 'unsubscribe' in the body of an e-mail to 'inet-access-request@mailinglists.org' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 16:10:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21982 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:10:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beatrice.rutgers.edu (beatrice.rutgers.edu [165.230.209.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21772; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:09:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu) Received: (from easmith@localhost) by beatrice.rutgers.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA21533; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:08:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Allen Smith" Message-Id: <9806211908.ZM21532@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:08:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: Jim Bryant "Re: PCVT's death (fwd)" (Jun 20, 9:38pm) References: <199806210238.VAA04185@unix.tfs.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sos@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jun 20, 9:38pm, Jim Bryant (possibly) wrote: > well, if pcvt is dying, then why don't we incorporate some of it's > better features, such as 132 columns [with 25, 43, 50, and 60 lines] > into sc? Agreed; as it is, I keep having to use 'more' after practically every command, which unfortunately alters the behavior of some of them (e.g., ls). screen, while potentially useful, does not have the ability to give a wide terminal on sc. This facility would be especially useful for those of us who for various reasons (e.g., security in our case) who don't run X. I will confess that my ability to help out with this is rather minimal, due to my not particularly good C programming abilities (I much prefer Perl), but I'll take a look at the syscons source and see if I have any ideas. -Allen -- Allen Smith easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 16:15:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22874 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:15:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22868 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:15:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA87476 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:15:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199806212054.WAA00892@sos.freebsd.dk> References: from Faried Nawaz at "Jun 21, 98 11:27:55 am" Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:18:58 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Quick question on syscons Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id QAA22869 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the thread on PCVT, S¯ren Schmidt wrote: >In reply to Faried Nawaz who wrote: > > It would help if you enumerated what syscons offers now and > > will offer in the (near) future. > > On top of my head there is (in no particular order): > > Generalized mouse support (done). > Cut&paste on text screens (done). I imagine I'd know the answer to the following question if I did some more reading, but I'll take the easy way out as long as the subject (kinda) came up here. In all of my recent installs, I get the mouse support (and cut & paste) on ttyv0, but I don't get it on any of the other virtual consoles. Is that the expected behavior? --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 16:51:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28037 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:51:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28022 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:50:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18673; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:50:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Sue Blake cc: ada@bsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:48:50 +1000." <19980622074850.57163@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:50:53 -0700 Message-ID: <18668.898473053@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Since at this stage I'm rather vague about shell scripts let alone > packages, and I've seen several others come up with related ideas, this > will proceed on the basis of "if nobody else does something similar > before I learn how to do it". I strongly urge you to do this even if someone else does do something like it. This is a category of packages which could stand to have a lot more than one entry in it and knowing how to create packages of this nature is a valuable skill. Read the man page for pkg_create (it will probably take several readings - the material is dense :) and start off with small single-purpose packages which exercise each specific feature of packages (install scripts, special PLIST directives, etc) you're unclear on until you can put it all together. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 16:52:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28281 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:52:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28265 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:52:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA03594 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02384 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:22:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id TAA05396 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:56:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199806212356.TAA05396@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Signal 10 problem... gone... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well - I guess it's just the phase of the moon - but my reproducible signal 10 problem has gone away... sorry to bother everyone. I completely rebuilt the kernel objects; and *poof* everything works again. [I'm guessing I got a bad object in there, causing ld to barf..., and, I've been fiddling with SCSI terminators - so I can imagine that something ain't right disk-wise.] - Thanks for listening, well, reading - - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 16:57:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28931 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:57:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28911 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:57:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18713; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:57:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Sue Blake cc: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:42:01 +1000." <19980622084201.30984@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:57:33 -0700 Message-ID: <18709.898473453@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Just to add to the motivation... I've spoken to a few people lately who > have several Linux boxes and started converting them to FreeBSD, then > changed their minds. One complaint is that FreeBSD won't talk VT100 > in a way the Linux boxes can understand, and vice versa. It's not so I'd have to say that they most likely changed their minds for other reasons and you're just hearing one small side of the story. Anyone insufficiently motived to find out that there's a vt100 capable console driver sitting in LINT (which is itself pointed to no less than 10 times in the handbook and twice in the FAQ) with the following comment at the top: # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver Is not someone who's going to last much beyond the next minor hurdle, whatever that might be. I'm not even sure my little idea is such a good way to go, as much as it appeals to my warped sense of humor, so for now pcvt is the way to get a vt100 console and it's not exactly hidden to anyone willing to read even the most well-publicised FreeBSD docs. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 17:17:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02085 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:17:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from g0d.nac.net (jwb@g0d.nac.net [207.99.6.223]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA02077 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:17:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwb@g0d.nac.net) Received: (from jwb@localhost) by g0d.nac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19875; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:16:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jwb) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:16:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "James W. Brinkerhoff" X-Sender: jwb@g0d.nac.net To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quick question on syscons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: # In all of my recent installs, I get the mouse support (and cut & # paste) on ttyv0, but I don't get it on any of the other virtual # consoles. Is that the expected behavior? You need to execute "vidcontrol -m on" on every ttyv you want to be able to cut/paste text to/from. Jim _____ ___ ___ |_ _| _ ) __| James W. Brinkerhoff | | | _ \ _| TBE Network Security Administrator |_| |___/___| TBE Internet Services - 973.835.9696 Key fingerprint = 0E DA 27 39 91 1E B6 29 A4 D2 5E E5 FD 3B F4 3C "There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." - Jeremy S. Anderson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 17:29:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04003 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:29:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bleep.ishiboo.com (user25651@bleep.ishiboo.com [199.79.133.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA03977 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:29:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nirva@ishiboo.com) Received: (qmail 15884 invoked by uid 1000); 22 Jun 1998 00:29:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19980621202921.57824@bleep.ishiboo.com> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:29:21 -0400 From: Danny Dulai To: Mike Smith Cc: Randall Hopper , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch References: <199806181306.PAA22009@sos.freebsd.dk> <199806211851.LAA03183@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199806211851.LAA03183@antipodes.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 11:51:06AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Quoting Mike Smith (mike@smith.net.au): > > And it has NO business in moused whatsoever, its a hack and it doesn't > > belong there. I'm sorry I havn't noticed this before, but its should be > > ripped out ASAP, I would never have allowed it in there if I had > > found out before. > > Actually, no. The MouseRemote is a mouse, amongst other things, and > it's specifically intended to be connected inline with mice. As such, > our protocol handler for mouse data streams is the correct place to put > it. Ripping it out without simultaneously coming up with an equally > functional and architecturally 'better' solution is not going to endear > you to anyone. > > I did actually propose to Randall the implementation of a stackable > 'interception' layer, again to be managed by moused, however with only > one device (so far) in this particular circumstance, it didn't seem > worth the effort. Right now, there is no way I can get the remote output that moused gives to /var/run/MouseRemote, and still run other mice on moused, AND having the remote's mouse functions disabled. The mouse remote's rf receiver gets far too much interference and causes my mouse pointer to jump around and buttons to be pressed randomly. The remote is uesless without turning off the mouse support. To solve this problem either add an option to moused to turn off mouse messages (and rename moused to something better), or use the model I suggested using remoted that splits mouse and remote events. Randall has expierenced the problems I'm getting, and I assume most others that have this remote do too. This is not a feature that '[isnt] worth the effort', its a mandatory feature for functionality. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Danny Dulai Feet. Pumice. Lotion. http://www.ishiboo.com/~nirva/ nirva@ishiboo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 17:34:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04951 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:34:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04902 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:33:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA25390; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:33:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:33:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Garance A Drosihn cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quick question on syscons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > In all of my recent installs, I get the mouse support (and cut & > paste) on ttyv0, but I don't get it on any of the other virtual > consoles. Is that the expected behavior? Take a look at the allscreens_flags line in /etc/rc.conf. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 17:52:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08389 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:52:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08339; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:51:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11370; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:51:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806220051.RAA11370@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Danny Dulai cc: Mike Smith , Randall Hopper , multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:29:21 EDT." <19980621202921.57824@bleep.ishiboo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:51:44 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just switch off the remote mouse at its junction box --- there is a little switch so use it. I am not sure that the remote mouse has any software functionality to disable itself . Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 18:40:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16703 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:40:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16679 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:40:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA04956; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:39:57 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980622113948.26138@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:39:48 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death References: <19980622084201.30984@welearn.com.au> <18709.898473453@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <18709.898473453@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 04:57:33PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 04:57:33PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Just to add to the motivation... I've spoken to a few people lately who > > have several Linux boxes and started converting them to FreeBSD, then > > changed their minds. One complaint is that FreeBSD won't talk VT100 > > in a way the Linux boxes can understand, and vice versa. It's not so > > I'd have to say that they most likely changed their minds for other > reasons and you're just hearing one small side of the story. That's possible, I suppose. > Anyone insufficiently motived to find out that there's a vt100 capable > console driver sitting in LINT (which is itself pointed to no less than > 10 times in the handbook and twice in the FAQ) with the following > comment at the top: > > # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver > > Is not someone who's going to last much beyond the next minor hurdle, > whatever that might be. I'm not even sure my little idea is such a > good way to go, as much as it appeals to my warped sense of humor, so > for now pcvt is the way to get a vt100 console and it's not exactly > hidden to anyone willing to read even the most well-publicised FreeBSD > docs. Aha, so I did misunderstand the subject line :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 18:54:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18165 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:54:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18155 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:54:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@cain.gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA15215; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:24:19 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199806220154.LAA15215@cain.gsoft.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Jun 1998 22:40:43 MST." <24188.898407643@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:24:19 +0930 From: "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > PCVT will die here when it's ripped from my cvs repository > > over my dead body. 8-) > What if syscons grew the ability to have dynamically loadable terminal > emulations and a vt100 implementation of same - would that change your > decision? Cool idea.. twisted too, but very handy :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | |http://www.gsoft.com.au | |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 19:11:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20299 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:11:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20274 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:11:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA14945 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:10:43 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA14210; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:10:57 +0800 Message-Id: <199806220210.KAA14210@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LSMTP and Unix (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:06:47 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:10:57 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Why is this benchmark so slow on UNIX filesystems? > > Will they give out the source to the benchmark so that someone can test > FreeBSD's performance and/or figure out if the benchmark is valid? > Curious - I think the giveaway is in the part of the quote where they state they VMS was engineered to be able to handle lots of async I/Os. It's quite possible that the code they're using relies on this. So if your thread implementation isn't up to scratch (and this is one area where NT shines, see the part of the quote about scheduling et cetera) you could lose out big time. Various benchmarks have been released that show NT can schedule huge numbers of threads very efficiently. On the other hand, its process scheduling is pretty sad. My feeling is that the filesystem issues may not be a big deal, unless you filesystem code isn't multi-threaded. Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 20:13:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29747 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:13:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA29728 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrF-14.aei.ca [206.186.205.14]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA04243; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <358DCB71.9929B072@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:11:45 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ben@rosengart.com CC: Garance A Drosihn , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quick question on syscons References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Snob Art Genre wrote: > > On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > > In all of my recent installs, I get the mouse support (and cut & > > paste) on ttyv0, but I don't get it on any of the other virtual > > consoles. Is that the expected behavior? > > Take a look at the allscreens_flags line in /etc/rc.conf. > > Ben > > "You have your mind on computers, it seems." > I edit .profile in my home directory and add vidcontrol -m on Malartre -- -------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 20:35:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02542 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:35:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [209.81.9.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA02535 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id UAA22721 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:34:18 -0700 Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:34:18 -0700 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199806220334.UAA22721@monk.via.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Problem X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Attempting to run telnet give this messages: ld.so failed: Undefined symbol "_krb_err_txt" in telnet::/usr/lib/libtelnet.so.3.0 What gives? How do I fix this? Thanks, Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 20:50:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04432 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:50:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [205.162.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04368 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:50:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jas@flyingfox.com) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA09237; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:51:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199806220351.UAA09237@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: jamie@itribe.net, opsys@mail.webspan.net Subject: Re: TweakDUN Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jamie Bowden writes: > The reason you lower MTU and MRU on modem links is the problem with > your media. It's unreliable to transmit large packets cleanly. 576 > is probably too low, but keeps your retransmit levels to a bare > minimum. Line noise on modems is an unfortunate reality. ... and error-correcting modems are a fortunate reality. It's been an awfully long time since I've seen an environment where "it's unreliable to transmit large packets cleanly." More precisely, where that's the case, it gets fixed up at layer 2. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 21:07:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06588 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:07:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p142.tfs.net [139.146.210.142]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06579 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:07:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA29964; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:07:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199806220407.XAA29964@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: LSMTP and Unix (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Michael Dillon at "Jun 21, 98 04:06:47 pm" To: michael@memra.com (Michael Dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:07:01 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Jun 20 11:57:05 CDT 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > >Are there any plans to port LSMTP to UNIX? ... The performance > >of LSMTP and a UNIX operating system combined would be excellent! > > LSMTP is being ported to Solaris (SPARC only), AIX and Digital unix. We > may add other systems when we are done with these three, but unlike since when did benchmarks not include source code? all of the comparisons are to be considered fudged until source code for the benchmark is released. "Always call their bluff!!" Jim's first law of benchmarks jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 21:51:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11787 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:51:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11754; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:51:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA15280; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:50:29 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA15275; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:50:45 +0800 Message-Id: <199806220450.MAA15275@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Clusters, Distributed File Systems and FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:50:45 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is anyone doing work on distributed filesystems (where files can be spread across > 1 node) on FreeBSD? The reason I'm interested is because I'm working for a Seismic DP company, and we use clusters all over the place (mainly IBM SP2 systems). They share filesystems using PIOFS, where each node has a 4GB disk shared out out. These are combined together and seen as one ginormous fs. I'm hoping to port our software environment to FreeBSD, initially having it set up for an SMP environment (it's based around PVM/MPI, BTW) as I only have one node. As time & finances permit, I'll purchase up to 4 boxes using cheap hardware for a proof of concept. I'm not expecting earth-shattering performance, it's being done mostly to satisfy my own curiousity. Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:02:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13379 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:02:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles314.castles.com [208.214.167.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13362 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:02:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03312; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806220357.UAA03312@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Joe McGuckin cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:34:18 PDT." <199806220334.UAA22721@monk.via.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:57:31 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Attempting to run telnet give this messages: > > ld.so failed: Undefined symbol "_krb_err_txt" in telnet::/usr/lib/libtelnet.so.3.0 > > What gives? You installed the kerberised telnet, but you don't have the kerberos libraries available, either because you're upgrading and haven't rebooted, or you didn't install all the bits. > How do I fix this? That depends on what your desired goal is. If you're not doing the Kerberos thing, then the easiest path out is to reinstall the 'bin' distribution by itself, which will plaster over the kerberos-requiring bits. Otherwise, rebooting and/or installing the extra secure-dist bits will do it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:15:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15177 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:15:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles314.castles.com [208.214.167.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15127; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03380; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806220410.VAA03380@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper), nirva@ishiboo.com, hasty@netcom.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:02:30 +0200." <199806191102.NAA00901@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:10:23 -0700 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id WAA15165 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You got me wrong here, moused should have no pipes/sockets/etc > interfaces, it shall have exactly what it needs and that is the > device/devices of the mouse hw. If you need a deamon for a new > device (and I see a X10-remote-anything as a new device) you > should write one, not try to bend an old one into shape... Just be careful where you take this one; it's a sliding scale of greys from everything standalone (which for the cascaded MouseRemote case would reek) through to Streams in user-space. It seems that Amancio has again abandoned his "solution" partway, so let me elaborate on a stacked pointer-interface model which I originally devised to deal with Randall's original suggestion. It owes a little to Streams and a lot to dlopen(). In the new model, moused serves as a framework for modules related to auxiliary input devices, specifically those whose operational domain may overlap that of the primary pointing device. This should primarily involve managing a single input source, which may have more than one layer of protocol embedded within it. A combination of manual and automatic configuration serves to build a stack of processing modules. Configuration would include active discovery (COM PnP, traditional mouse probes, perhaps delayed protocol-sensitive determination - the first two we have, the third might serve as an elaborate technique for avoiding manual configuration). Modules are, naturally, separate objects dynamically loaded and unloaded as required. Protocol data are passed into the top of the stack, where it ripples down, and is possibly passed out sideways either to a module-specific endpoint or to the standard 'pointer event stream' which is consolidated and passed to the console driver (etc.) as it is currently. This is a highly generalised design, and one which would facilitate the rapid production of new modules to handle auxiliary input devices. It is, of course, overkill in the current situation. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:18:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15680 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:18:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles314.castles.com [208.214.167.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15675 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:18:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03208; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:47:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806220347.UAA03208@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Robert Chalmers cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is using fdisk a must? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 09:55:36 +1000." <199806202355.JAA06830@nanguo.chalmers.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:47:41 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm experimenting with setting up scsi disks using disktab and disklabel. > I've nutted out how disktab + disklabel works, and built successfully > a disktab for the scsi drive I'm using. A COMPAQ C2490A 2.1GB drive. > It appears to actually be a HP Manufactured drive. Anyway, having > done that, the new drive goes through newfs ok, and the partitons mount. > Everything appears to work. It doesn't actually sound like you're quite there yet. > However, doing 'fdisk sd1' tells me that the only partiton that is > actualy a correct FreeBSD partition (slice) is the 'e' partiton. > All the others have bad magic numbers and so on. This makes no sense. Partitions are not slices, and fdisk will never tell you anything about partitions. > Is a correct FreeBSD drive dependant on being made in the firstplace > with fdisk, then labeled accordingly.? If you are building a new disk to be used only with FreeBSD, the correct process is either: a) use /stand/sysinstall (and the configure menu) to slice/partition the disk. b) proceed as follows, for the disk 'foo'. # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/foo count=16 # disklabel -rwB foo auto # disklabel -e foo [set the disk type to SCSI or ESDI (for IDE disks), add partitions to suit] -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:19:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15908 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles314.castles.com [208.214.167.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15892 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02686; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806220137.SAA02686@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "James W. Brinkerhoff" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quick question on syscons In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 16:16:39 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:37:30 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > # In all of my recent installs, I get the mouse support (and cut & > # paste) on ttyv0, but I don't get it on any of the other virtual > # consoles. Is that the expected behavior? > > You need to execute "vidcontrol -m on" on every ttyv you want to be able > to cut/paste text to/from. Just to point out that on more recently installed system (perhaps only in the -current branch) the 'allscreens_flags' option in rc.conf can be utilised to automate this, if you're not using it to set video modes. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:22:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16333 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:22:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16298 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:21:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id BAA05525; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:21:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Sue Blake cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: <19980622113948.26138@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > On Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 04:57:33PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Just to add to the motivation... I've spoken to a few people lately who > > > have several Linux boxes and started converting them to FreeBSD, then > > > changed their minds. One complaint is that FreeBSD won't talk VT100 > > > in a way the Linux boxes can understand, and vice versa. It's not so Im joining this late but when did: set term=vt100 stop working? "is that FreeBSD won't talk VT100 in a way Linux boxes can understand, and vice versa" woo big shock there Linux doesnt work with FreeBSD in some fashion :) Not running FreeBSD because VT100 emu doesnt work with a linux box is lunacy. set term=vt100 works fine for me on anything I need it for. Except for OS's with as usual broken implementations :) Chris "The great flame war inducer" -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:22:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16494 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:22:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles314.castles.com [208.214.167.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16460; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:22:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02633; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806220129.SAA02633@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Danny Dulai cc: Mike Smith , Randall Hopper , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:29:21 EDT." <19980621202921.57824@bleep.ishiboo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:29:23 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Right now, there is no way I can get the remote output that moused gives > to /var/run/MouseRemote, and still run other mice on moused, AND > having the remote's mouse functions disabled. > > The mouse remote's rf receiver gets far too much interference and causes > my mouse pointer to jump around and buttons to be pressed randomly. The > remote is uesless without turning off the mouse support. > > To solve this problem either add an option to moused to turn off mouse > messages (and rename moused to something better), or use the model I > suggested using remoted that splits mouse and remote events. > > Randall has expierenced the problems I'm getting, and I assume most > others that have this remote do too. This is not a feature that '[isnt] > worth the effort', its a mandatory feature for functionality. Drivers should, as a general rule, cater to hardware that is working correctly. If you have a decent general-purpose heuristic that helps with a given failure mode, that's one thing, but attempting to kluge around hardware that is failing in a completely random fashion is pointless. If you want the split, we can talk about the modular architecture I originally proposed, presuming of course that you're interested in discussing or implementing it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:29:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17742 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:29:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stennis.ca.sandia.gov (stennis.ca.sandia.gov [146.246.243.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17716 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:29:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@stennis.ca.sandia.gov) Received: (from bmah@localhost) by stennis.ca.sandia.gov (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA14286; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806220528.WAA14286@stennis.ca.sandia.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TweakDUN In-Reply-To: Your message of "21 Jun 1998 15:21:54 EDT." From: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV (Bruce A. Mah) Reply-To: bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Url: http://www.ca.sandia.gov/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-1673651679P"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:28:38 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --==_Exmh_-1673651679P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If memory serves me right, Robert Sanders wrote: > bmah@CA.Sandia.GOV (Bruce A. Mah) writes: > > > I don't use dialups very often nowadays, but I dimly remember trying to > > negotiate a *smaller* MTU on a downlink, in order to try to get better > > interactive performance (mumble mumble, use IP TOS bits and smarter queuein > g, > Reordering packets doesn't help on a dialup link if you have a bulk > transfer going with 1500 byte packets. Even if you put "interactive" > priority packets at the head of the queue, you may already have a 1500 > byte packet in progress. Yes to the second, no to the first. If you have multiple, large packets queued at bottleneck link, the "interactive" packets don't wait for the remaining packets to get transmitted--they go first. However, you're right that the serial link remains non-preemptive, so you do hurt from a long packet already in progress. [snip] > On > the other hand, with my network architect's hat on I don't like the > idea of tripling the rate of packets per sec through already busy > major exchanges and core routers. Good point, but I kinda wonder if the network architect working for whatever-ISP-it-was-that-started-this-discussion thought about this. :-O Cheers, Bruce. --==_Exmh_-1673651679P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNY3rhajOOi0j7CY9AQFQAAP9F4KQ90qbOrZdcrZUWyIFXd1qJjb1a1fQ K3yqIg5igQ72Y7/0NIlkQQWa9DeLA2KoQjdfZUeR27HDDQ8Linc+8dVYTqWafKQ4 AW41uFyWTu5U5sk6v39LKa7LXuVKscUiSX9aT+8zSWmX9hqvf/+uSvwjLJwXfVLb j57uaQguPR0= =G74g -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_-1673651679P-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:34:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA18712 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:34:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA18700; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:34:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12759; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:34:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806220534.WAA12759@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mike Smith cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper), nirva@ishiboo.com, hasty@netcom.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:10:23 PDT." <199806220410.VAA03380@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:34:18 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > You got me wrong here, moused should have no pipes/sockets/etc > > interfaces, it shall have exactly what it needs and that is the > > device/devices of the mouse hw. If you need a deamon for a new > > device (and I see a X10-remote-anything as a new device) you > > should write one, not try to bend an old one into shape... > > Just be careful where you take this one; it's a sliding scale of greys > from everything standalone (which for the cascaded MouseRemote case > would reek) through to Streams in user-space. > > It seems that Amancio has again abandoned his "solution" partway, so Boy, Mike you belong on the Press 8) I am working on a daemon however I still think that fxtv should gets its mouse support from the X server and not necessarily from a moused thingy 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:41:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19846 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:41:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nanguo.chalmers.com.au (gateway.chalmers.com.au [203.1.96.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19838 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:41:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@chalmers.com.au) Received: from chalmers.com.au (carbon.chalmers.com.au [203.1.96.26]) by nanguo.chalmers.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08404; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:40:43 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <358DF03F.BFA47ED9@chalmers.com.au> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:48:47 +1000 From: Robert Chalmers Reply-To: robert@chalmers.com.au Organization: chalmers.com.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: Robert Chalmers , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is using fdisk a must? References: <199806220347.UAA03208@antipodes.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > Robert wrote > > I'm experimenting with setting up scsi disks using disktab and disklabel. > If you are building a new disk to be used only with FreeBSD, the > correct process is either: > > a) use /stand/sysinstall (and the configure menu) to slice/partition > the disk. Keep in mind I'm experimenting here... I'm trying to actually avoind having to use sysinstall. > b) proceed as follows, for the disk 'foo'. > > # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/foo count=16 > # disklabel -rwB foo auto > # disklabel -e foo > [set the disk type to SCSI or ESDI (for IDE disks), > add partitions to suit] This of course builds a _bootable_ disk, right? The -B loads a boot image. Least wise it did on mine, and I had the devil of a job disabling it, and rebooting off the correct, primary, drive. I have the drive up and running, it just gives the 'no magic' warning at boot time... as mentioned in the first post. I can include the disktab/disklabel output if you like, but nowhere does disklabel/disktab allow the input of 'magic numbers'. Which led to the question, is fdisk a must? I mean, sysinstall starts with fdisk itself! I am beginning to believe that FreeBSD simply has no facility for building new drives from disktab entires entirely? If there is a way, perhaps someone would like to tell me what it is - barring the use of fdisk, which doesn't exist on most Unix systems! it's a DOS-i386'ism. cheers Robert > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com -- Support Whirled Peas. Business in China? China House robert@chalmers.com.au ph:61 7 49440357 fx:61 7 49578425 China House Uses Webposition to ensure Top Spot in Searches http://www.chalmers.com.au/ChinaHouse/Business/webposition To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:42:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20041 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:42:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles314.castles.com [208.214.167.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20030; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:42:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03573; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806220437.VAA03573@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Amancio Hasty cc: Mike Smith , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper), nirva@ishiboo.com, hasty@netcom.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:34:18 PDT." <199806220534.WAA12759@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:37:05 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am working on a daemon however I still think that fxtv should gets > its mouse support from the X server and not necessarily from a > moused thingy 8) If there's a mechanism for passing abstract/custom (non-mouse, non-keyboard) events in to the server where they may be discarded or consumed at the whim of a requesting application, sure. Bear in mind that the MouseRemote pipe is for MouseRemote controls only, not "normal" mouse events. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:54:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22003 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:54:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA21969; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:53:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12845; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:53:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806220553.WAA12845@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mike Smith cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper), nirva@ishiboo.com, hasty@netcom.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:10:23 PDT." <199806220410.VAA03380@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:53:46 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Just be careful where you take this one; it's a sliding scale of greys >from everything standalone (which for the cascaded MouseRemote case >would reek) through to Streams in user-space. Actually, one of the models I am contemplating is user Space Streams 8) Again, as Michael has stated these types of architectures are an overkill for the case of the moused daemon however it can pave the way for what I hope exciting new daemon type services. This is a short code snippet from JACE's BufferStreamTest.java and with JACE's ASX we can exploit very easily prioritized messages. // Spawn off a new thread. public class BufferStreamTest { public static void main (String args[]) { // Control hierachically-related active objects Stream stream = new Stream (); Module pm = new Module ("Consumer", new Consumer (), null, null); Module cm = new Module ("Producer", new Producer (), null, null); // Create Producer and Consumer Modules and push them onto the // STREAM. All processing is performed in the STREAM. if (stream.push (pm) == -1) { ACE.ERROR ("push"); return; } else if (stream.push (cm) == -1) { ACE.ERROR ("push"); return; } } } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:56:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22213 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:56:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22163 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:55:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA21507; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:55:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Open Systems Networking cc: Sue Blake , Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:21:25 EDT." Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:55:33 -0700 Message-ID: <21503.898494933@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Im joining this late but when did: set term=vt100 stop working? It didn't. They're talking about the native emulation provided by syscons. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 22:57:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22419 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:57:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22363; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:56:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12875; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:56:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806220556.WAA12875@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mike Smith cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper), nirva@ishiboo.com, hasty@netcom.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:37:05 PDT." <199806220437.VAA03573@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:56:45 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >If there's a mechanism for passing abstract/custom (non-mouse, The short answer is yes. >Bear in mind that the MouseRemote pipe is for MouseRemote controls only, >not "normal" mouse events I think that for fxtv we should try to convert the "X10 Mouse Remote " events to X events. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 23:06:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24198 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:06:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24135 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:06:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA22170; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:06:01 +0300 (EEST) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:06:01 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: Jim Bryant cc: Michael Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LSMTP and Unix (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199806220407.XAA29964@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, Jim Bryant wrote: > In reply: > > >Are there any plans to port LSMTP to UNIX? ... The performance > > >of LSMTP and a UNIX operating system combined would be excellent! > > > > LSMTP is being ported to Solaris (SPARC only), AIX and Digital unix. We > > may add other systems when we are done with these three, but unlike > > since when did benchmarks not include source code? > > all of the comparisons are to be considered fudged until source code > for the benchmark is released. > 1) The combination of given configurations and numbers is bogus. They don't give the amount of memory. It could very well be that the perfomance really depends on the size of buffer cache. 2) Another very strong possibility is that they do something silly and depend heavily on read-ahead. 3) There is not even any mention what their benchmark measures. Sander > > "Always call their bluff!!" > Jim's first law of benchmarks > > jim > -- > All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, > think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or > radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw > voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 23:14:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25603 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:14:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles314.castles.com [208.214.167.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25517 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:13:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03768; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806220508.WAA03768@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: robert@chalmers.com.au cc: Mike Smith , Robert Chalmers , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is using fdisk a must? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:48:47 +1000." <358DF03F.BFA47ED9@chalmers.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:08:01 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith wrote: > > b) proceed as follows, for the disk 'foo'. > > > > # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/foo count=16 > > # disklabel -rwB foo auto > > # disklabel -e foo > > [set the disk type to SCSI or ESDI (for IDE disks), > > add partitions to suit] > > This of course builds a _bootable_ disk, right? The -B loads a boot image. -B puts the bootblocks on the disk, yes. > Least wise it did on mine, and I had the devil of a job disabling it, and > rebooting off the correct, primary, drive. If the disk is first in the boot sequence, then not putting bootblocks on it will just make more of a mess. You should not be adding a disk earlier in the sequence unless you intend to boot from it. > I have the drive up and running, it just gives the 'no magic' warning at boot > time... as mentioned in the first post. > I can include the disktab/disklabel output if you like, but nowhere does > disklabel/disktab allow the input of 'magic numbers'. The magic numbers are generated automatically. > Which led to the question, is fdisk a must? I mean, sysinstall starts with > fdisk itself! You can operate in two basic modes; sliced and unsliced. If you start with fdisk, then you are slicing. If you start with a blank disk and go straight to disklabelling, then you're unsliced. > I am beginning to believe that FreeBSD simply has no facility for > building new drives from disktab entires entirely? Disktab entries are, as a general rule, redundant. Use 'auto' instead as I outlined above. (Yes, disktab entries work like they always have. But being forced to create a new entry for every new disk or slice is stupid. Don't use them.) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 23:15:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25793 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:15:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles314.castles.com [208.214.167.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25717 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:14:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03790; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806220509.WAA03790@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Scott Gasch cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Q: ioctl() and bios video mode In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:26:32 EDT." <199806182026.QAA29134@cowpie.acm.vt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:09:51 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hi. I'm trying to add a mode to vidcontrol for a fixed > freq. monitor I have. It looks terrible in console mode but > I've heard that it's clear in bios mode 0x53. However, when > the ioctl call is made with my parameter it fails with errno > set to 25: "Inappropriate ioctl for device." My code is > almost identical to the existing code in vidcontrol -- all > that's changed is the bios mode I am trying to switch to. > Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm in over my > head and would appreciate the help. Syscons does not support arbitrary BIOS video modes, only the modes that are listed in the vidcontrol manpage. There is infrastructure to support arbitrary modes in -current, but as yet the functionality has not been added. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 21 23:54:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02550 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:54:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from myrddin.demon.co.uk (exim@myrddin.demon.co.uk [158.152.54.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02472; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:53:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dom@myrddin.demon.co.uk) Received: from dom by myrddin.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0yo0Gg-00007d-00; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:39:54 +0100 To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp), hasty@rah.star-gate.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) References: <199806212245.RAA07936@dyson.iquest.net> From: Dom Mitchell In-Reply-To: "John S. Dyson"'s message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:45:09 -0500 (EST)" X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:39:54 +0100 Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "John S. Dyson" writes: > Maybe, but I *am* working on a scalable and forward looking kernel > that will perform about the same as a conventional kernel, except > where the conventional kernel doesn't perform well at all. The > abstractions that we are working on, work both on PC's, on SMP > PC's, multiple machines (acting essentially as one machine), and > even heterogeneous machines (in a limited fashion.) Got it! You're working on FreePlan9. :-) -- "Remember the Golden Rule: he who has the gold makes the rules" -- WoID To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 00:18:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06929 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06862; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:18:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA09283; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 02:14:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806220714.CAA09283@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) In-Reply-To: from Dom Mitchell at "Jun 22, 98 07:39:54 am" To: dom@myrddin.demon.co.uk (Dom Mitchell) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 02:14:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, phk@critter.freebsd.dk, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dom Mitchell said: > "John S. Dyson" writes: > > Maybe, but I *am* working on a scalable and forward looking kernel > > that will perform about the same as a conventional kernel, except > > where the conventional kernel doesn't perform well at all. The > > abstractions that we are working on, work both on PC's, on SMP > > PC's, multiple machines (acting essentially as one machine), and > > even heterogeneous machines (in a limited fashion.) > > Got it! You're working on FreePlan9. :-) > Damn close. Different in alot of ways, but very similar in others. We are being careful to avoid looking at Plan9 source, and hope to improve on some (all) of it's shortcomings. :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 00:54:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11803 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:54:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA11742 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:53:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com) Received: from sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw131 [134.32.45.97]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA02209 ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:53:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA05620; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:53:05 +0200 To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) References: <199806202223.RAA05437@dyson.iquest.net> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 22 Jun 1998 09:53:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: "John S. Dyson"'s message of Sat, 20 Jun 1998 17:23:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "John S. Dyson" writes: > [I have] something good to say about the > new works that I and certain other individuals have been > developing. > [...] > So, that is also kind-of an early status report of the progress > on the new project. I believe that this will become a significant > forward force in free kernel design and flexibility. I'm holding my breath until you tell us the name of the project you're working on :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 01:02:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA13273 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:02:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA13097 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:01:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09385; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:01:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806220801.DAA09385@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) In-Reply-To: from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= at "Jun 22, 98 09:53:04 am" To: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:01:01 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav said: > "John S. Dyson" writes: > > [I have] something good to say about the > > new works that I and certain other individuals have been > > developing. > > [...] > > So, that is also kind-of an early status report of the progress > > on the new project. I believe that this will become a significant > > forward force in free kernel design and flexibility. > > I'm holding my breath until you tell us the name of the project you're > working on :) > The name "G2" was suggested, so that is the codename for now. It kind-of means "Generation 2". -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 01:03:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA13605 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:03:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA13548 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com) Received: from sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw131 [134.32.45.97]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA02533 ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:59:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA05629; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:59:44 +0200 To: robert@chalmers.com.au Cc: Mike Smith , Robert Chalmers , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is using fdisk a must? References: <199806220347.UAA03208@antipodes.cdrom.com> <358DF03F.BFA47ED9@chalmers.com.au> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 22 Jun 1998 09:59:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: Robert Chalmers's message of Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:48:47 +1000 Message-ID: Lines: 26 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Chalmers writes: > This of course builds a _bootable_ disk, right? The -B loads a boot image. > Least wise it did on mine, and I had the devil of a job disabling it, and > rebooting off the correct, primary, drive. Are you certain that the "correct, primary drive" really is the primary drive? (i.e. the one probed first and assigned the lowest device ID) > I have the drive up and running, it just gives the 'no magic' warning at boot > time... as mentioned in the first post. > [...] > I am beginning to believe that FreeBSD simply has no facility for building new > drives from disktab entires entirely? If there is a way, perhaps someone would > like to tell me what it is - barring the use of fdisk, which doesn't exist on > most Unix systems! it's a DOS-i386'ism. You must have done something wrong somewhere. I have two SCSI and one ESDI drive, all manually partitioned and labeled the way Mike described, in a 24/7 box. The only problem I ever had doing this was having to swap my SCSI controllers them so the right one would be probed and attached first. Since the PCI bus has numbered slots and devices are probed in order, that was practically a no-brainer. -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 01:08:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14512 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:08:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14433 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:07:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA06137; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:07:18 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980622180715.09559@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:07:15 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Open Systems Networking Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death References: <19980622113948.26138@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Open Systems Networking on Mon, Jun 22, 1998 at 01:21:25AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 22, 1998 at 01:21:25AM -0400, Open Systems Networking wrote: > On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > > On Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 04:57:33PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Just to add to the motivation... I've spoken to a few people lately who > > > > have several Linux boxes and started converting them to FreeBSD, then > > > > changed their minds. One complaint is that FreeBSD won't talk VT100 > > > > in a way the Linux boxes can understand, and vice versa. It's not so > > Im joining this late but when did: set term=vt100 stop working? > "is that FreeBSD won't talk VT100 in a way Linux boxes can understand, and > vice versa" woo big shock there Linux doesnt work with FreeBSD in some > fashion :) Not running FreeBSD because VT100 emu doesnt work with a linux > box is lunacy. Even loonies deserve the chance to come into our clutches for a bit of... err... retraining. Just think, where would FreeBSD be without you and me? :-) > set term=vt100 works fine for me on anything I need it for. Except for > OS's with as usual broken implementations :) Sure, maybe that's the problem. It's a broken world out there. Write to me again if you ever actually try it with Linux. I don't know enough to know what works and why. I can't make anything except screen work but I'm stupid and lazy :-) A few months ago consensus seemed to be that Linux was too hard to fix or something. The discussion was long and boring, the untested suggestions worked in righteous theory rather than practice, those who had genuine motivation retreated to private mail to avoid the flack, and it belongs in -questions if revived at all. The only issue for now is that if PCVT is indeed the solution for companies changing gradually from Linux to FreeBSD (can't confirm, I gave up before getting mine to work) then it is needed at least for this reason. -- Regards, -*Sue*- -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 01:12:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15407 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:12:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA15233; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:11:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) id SAA01298; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:11:00 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980622181059.02296@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:10:59 +1000 From: David Dawes To: Mike Smith Cc: Amancio Hasty , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, Randall Hopper , nirva@ishiboo.com, hasty@netcom.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch References: <199806220534.WAA12759@rah.star-gate.com> <199806220437.VAA03573@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199806220437.VAA03573@antipodes.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 09:37:05PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 09:37:05PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >> I am working on a daemon however I still think that fxtv should gets >> its mouse support from the X server and not necessarily from a >> moused thingy 8) > >If there's a mechanism for passing abstract/custom (non-mouse, >non-keyboard) events in to the server where they may be discarded or >consumed at the whim of a requesting application, sure. I have no idea what these events might be (I haven't been following this very closely), but if they are generated by an input device and don't really match the standard pointer or keyboard then maybe the XInput extension might be useful at the X server end? David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 01:15:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16147 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:15:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16070 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:15:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com) Received: from sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw131 [134.32.45.97]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA03586 ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:14:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA05643; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:14:35 +0200 To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) References: <199806220801.DAA09385@dyson.iquest.net> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 22 Jun 1998 10:14:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: "John S. Dyson"'s message of Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:01:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "John S. Dyson" writes: > Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav said: > > I'm holding my breath until you tell us the name of the project you're > > working on :) > The name "G2" was suggested, so that is the codename for now. It > kind-of means "Generation 2". So where and when can I buy stock? ;) -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 01:26:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17779 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17736 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:25:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (root@[10.1.140.1]) by zwei with ESMTP id KAA17858; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:25:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (pc8811.gud.siemens.at [195.3.22.159]) by pc8811.gud.siemens.at (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11942; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:25:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:25:48 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Siemens Austria AG From: Marino Ladavac To: (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm\xrgrav) Subject: RE: Signals in POSIX threads Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19-Jun-98 Dag-Erling Coidan Sm\xrgrav wrote: > This is not strictly FreeBSD-related, but I thought I'd ask here since > many of you are probably working with pthreads at some level. > > Is there any way to force all (or specific) signals sent to a process > to be sent to a particular thread? The behaviour I'm seeing now¹ is > that the signal is going to a seemingly random thread². Wether the > signal handler is being installed before or after the threads are > started doesn't seem to make a difference. Unless I am grossly mistaken, the pthreads explicitly specifies that all signals arriving asynchronously (i.e. via kill() and similar methods) should be passed to one of the threads not masking that particular signal. That was Draft 7, and I believe that the later drafts have removed the thread specific signal masks. This means that you cannot specify the thread which should receive a signal. But see below--there might be a way out: However, the thread that does sigwait() on that particular signal will get it, and nobody else (unless you have another thread sigwait()ing on that particular signal in which case you are treading the undefined ways. A nasty issue with sigwait() is that it accepts waits only for a subset of signals which always have to be asynchronous--it will not wait on SIGFPE, SIGSEGV and the others which could be delivered through the fault in your program. These signals will always be delivered to the thread that caused them (or the currently running thread in case that these signals have been generated via kill()). > > I asked a colleague at Geco about it, and his answer was "Whatever you > want to do, find a way to do it that doesn't involve signals." Not > very helpful :) I would tend to agree with your colleague: you would be well advised to use some other method of IPC rather than signals. If you wish to wait on SIGCHILD, however, the sigwait() does excellent job of it. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 01:27:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18005 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17958 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:27:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09518; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:25:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806220825.DAA09518@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) In-Reply-To: from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= at "Jun 22, 98 10:14:34 am" To: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:25:12 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav said: > "John S. Dyson" writes: > > Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav said: > > > I'm holding my breath until you tell us the name of the project you're > > > working on :) > > The name "G2" was suggested, so that is the codename for now. It > > kind-of means "Generation 2". > > So where and when can I buy stock? ;) > The goal is for it to be free, and will be probably BSD licensed or similar. :-). No need to buy stock in the kernel development, it will be the user and OEM base (hopefully) that will profit, and the developers will profit as a (slightly more stable) side effect. This thing is probably 1yr away from being a nearly full BSD API and capable kernel, but approx 3mos away from being a usable platform of sorts. (These are only guesses at this point -- it might be a little longer, because such developments are hard to predict.) Imagine if we run into a performance bottleneck -- it could take a month or longer of rework and rewrite. It only takes a few setbacks to end up being a significant delay. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 01:32:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18728 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:32:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18662 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:31:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (root@[10.1.140.1]) by zwei with ESMTP id KAA18248; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:30:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (pc8811.gud.siemens.at [195.3.22.159]) by pc8811.gud.siemens.at (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11956; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:30:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199806202203.IAA24243@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:30:57 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Siemens Austria AG From: Marino Ladavac To: John Birrell Subject: Re: Signals in POSIX threads Cc: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20-Jun-98 John Birrell wrote: > Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: >> What bothers me is data sharing. Since I don't know which thread will >> run the signal handler, I don't know if it will be necessary to >> protect the data it uses with a mutex or if I can access it safely. I >> don't much like the idea of spin-waiting on a mutex lock inside a >> signal handler, either. >> >> If I set all threads except the main() thread to block a specific >> signal (say, SIGHUP), and install a handler for it, will that ensure >> that it runs in the main() thread or will it just disappear down a >> black hole nine out of ten times? > > The easiest way to handle this (IMO) is to create a pipe and have the > signal handler just write a character to the pipe for each non-nasty > signal that it receives. Then have a thread do a blocking read on the pipe. > This way you do next to nothing in the signal handler and the thread > that reads the pipe can block on whatever mutexes it needs to get access > to the data structures. It can then signal condition variables for any > other threads that need to deal with th changed data. > You can also safely sigwait() for SIGHUP. Take a look at the sigwait(2) manpage. And make certain you are the only one sigwaiting for it :) /Marino >> -- >> One two, one two, one two. >> >> ¹ I'm working on real-time visualization of hydrophone data onboard >> seismological exploration vessels. > > That brings back memories. I use to work for Schlumberger as a wireline > engineer. 8-) > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- Marino Ladavac Date: 22-Jun-98 Time: 10:27:23 ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 01:48:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA22155 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:48:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA22045 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:48:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com) Received: from sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw131 [134.32.45.97]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA05554 ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:47:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA05668; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:47:38 +0200 To: Marino Ladavac Cc: (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm\xrgrav) , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signals in POSIX threads References: Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 22 Jun 1998 10:47:38 +0200 In-Reply-To: Marino Ladavac's message of Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:25:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Marino Ladavac writes: > However, the thread that does sigwait() on that particular signal will > get it, and nobody else (unless you have another thread sigwait()ing on > that particular signal in which case you are treading the undefined ways. > A nasty issue with sigwait() is that it accepts waits only for a subset > of signals which always have to be asynchronous--it will not wait on SIGFPE, > SIGSEGV and the others which could be delivered through the fault in your > program. These signals will always be delivered to the thread that caused > them (or the currently running thread in case that these signals have been > generated via kill()). Thanks, this was precisely what I was looking for. It doesn't bother me that I can't sigwait() on SIGSEGV and SIGFPE; they're not supposed to occur anyway. -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 03:05:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA03563 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:05:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sv01.msgeuro.com (gateway.msgeuro.com [193.154.204.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA03530 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:05:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from r.friess@msg.at) Received: from ws-raf (WS-RAF.msgeuro.com [192.168.1.101]) by sv01.msgeuro.com (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA14346 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:58:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from r.friess@msg.at) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:18:19 +0200 Message-ID: <01BD9DD7.D74D9FC0.r.friess@msg.at> From: Rudolf Friess Reply-To: "r.friess@msg.at" To: "'Hackers@freeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Mylex DAC960 RAID Controller any idea? Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:18:18 +0200 Organization: Marketing Service GmbH X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am using a Mylex DAC960 with a Digital StorageWorks RAID Array 200 by now in one of our NT4 Servers. I want to change the operating system to freeBSD during the next few weeks since my other Boxes work fine (and fast) with freeBSD. I am searching for a freeBSD driver for the Mylex controller and the Network Cards. Support from Mylex simply answered "freeBSD isnt't supported". I can not believe that there is nobody "out there" who did implement a similar System config. System config will be: 2 x Pent.200 Pro / a 128 MB RAM Adaptek AHA2940 with system drive 0: 1GB (will be root device) CDROM Array Tape Device Mylex DAC960 3 channel/4MB Cache channel 1 System Drive 1: 12 GB Raid Level 3/5 channel 2/3 not in use (by now) 2 x Olicom 10/100 Network Adapters If somebody has a source (or better (**smile**)) working drivers for the Mylex controller I would be glad to if you give me a address for a starting point where to search. Thanks for your help. Rudolf Friess (RF301-RIPE) WebMaster Marketing Service GmbH Raaber Bahngasse 12, A-1100 Vienna , Austria Voice: (+43-1) 600 6161 Fax: (+43-1) 600 6161 9 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 03:56:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09485 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:56:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (intranet.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA09455 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:55:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA337; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:54:19 +0200 Message-ID: <358E3805.EC76A838@pipeline.ch> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:55:01 +0200 From: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dyson@iquest.net CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) References: <199806220825.DAA09518@dyson.iquest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John S. Dyson wrote: -snip- > This thing is probably 1yr away from being a nearly full BSD API > and capable kernel, but approx 3mos away from being a usable platform > of sorts. (These are only guesses at this point -- it might be > a little longer, because such developments are hard to predict.) > > Imagine if we run into a performance bottleneck -- it could take > a month or longer of rework and rewrite. It only takes a few setbacks > to end up being a significant delay. Please put me on the "G2" announcement list ;-) I'm very interested. Cheers -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 04:11:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12551 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 04:11:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA12546; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 04:11:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bkogawa@primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA13660; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 04:11:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip196.sjc.primenet.com(206.165.96.196), claiming to be "foo.primenet.com" via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd013623; Mon Jun 22 04:11:28 1998 Received: (from bkogawa@localhost) by foo.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) id DAA02653; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806221040.DAA02653@foo.primenet.com> To: tjohnson@verio.net Subject: Re: TYAN 1668 anyone ?? Newsgroups: localhost.freebsd.hackers References: From: "Bryan K. Ogawa" Cc: smp@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD hackers , "'Chuck Robey'" X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In localhost.freebsd.hackers you write: >This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand >this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. >------ =_NextPart_000_01BD9B90.E8266C30 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >I got a few lockups when I had dram refresh queue and I think the other >option is fast dram leadoff turned on in chipset options of my = >bios.(awd >5.01) The bios defaults turns them on I think. Turning them off fixed >my lockup problems. They would happen to me when I had heavy disk >access and I moved the mouse and noticed the pc locked up. >I have a Tyan 1668 For the record, I just had this exact same problem while trying to diagnose a hang on my 430HX SuperMicro board. The symptoms happened with a 4M Trident card, but are not so bad with my Matrox Millenium -- essentially any mouse motion (PS/2 or Serial mouse) will cause a hang given enough time. One thing I've noticed is that the power on the MB seems dodgy -- I have a lot of SCSI devices and I am getting rather nasty hangs during boot with 5 SCSI devices. I was able to get rid of the hangs by disabling the internal cache on the chips -- obviously not a solution, but perhaps a clue? This also seems to be related to a hang that I get with Netscape periodically with both the Matrox and the Trident card -- the results are the same (everything dies, not even pings of the machine work). For the record, the board in question is a SuperMicro P55T2S -- a Pentium board with 430HX chipset. My other 430TX board with a K6 doesn't have the problem, btw. >-----Original Message----- >From: Chuck Robey [mailto:chuckr@glue.umd.edu] >Sent: Friday, June 19, 1998 7:56 AM >To: S=F8ren Schmidt >Cc: smp@FreeBSD.ORG; FreeBSD hackers >Subject: Re: TYAN 1668 anyone ?? >On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, S=F8ren Schmidt wrote: >>=20 >> I have this most odd problem with at least 3 of these boards >> (TYAN 1668 dual P6). >>=20 >> The problem is that those boards can lock up totally given a set >> of specific events: >>=20 >> Run in a high res graphics mode, that uses linear addressing. >> Use the mouse together with disk activity. >>=20 >> This can be done in either X, win95 or winNT with the same sad >> result, a total lockup of the system. >>=20 >> If I use the mouse in a textmode, or in a graphics mode that >> uses banking, the problem doesn't appear. >>=20 >> We have tried anything here, we have the problem in 3 machines >> all of them have had their motherboards changed several times, >> we have tried different videocards, mouses, tried SCSI vs IDE, >> you name it, everytime with the same result. >>=20 >> They can all "make world" for days in an xterm, given that you >> dont touch the mouse, if you do move the mouse and hit a bottom >> that will hang the machin solid in 80% of the cases. >>=20 >> I have a TYAN 1662 board which is allmost the same just AT instead >> of ATX, and it doesn't show this behavior, even with the same >> parts put into the machine.... >>=20 >> Any ideas, I'm totally at a loss here.... >I have a 1662 with 2 PPro 166/512's here, running with a Cirrus 5436 >card, doing 1024X1280. 64 megs memory, and just as stable as a rock. >Done many hundreds of buildworlds, only once have I ever had a panic. >Using Option "linear" in my XF86Config file. >Toss a test at me if you want. I'm not using softupdates or CAM, tho, >and I only use a mouse in X. I often do the buildworlds while I'm >screwing around with something else, even netscape. I have 4 G of = >disk, >with 192M of swap. >>=20 >> >-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= >-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= >-=3D-=3D- >> S=F8ren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD >Core Team >> Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? >> .. >>=20 >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message >>=20 >>=20 >----------------------------+-------------------------------------------= >---- >Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or >data=20 >chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and >Unix. >213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | >Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic >(FreeBSD-current) >(301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). >----------------------------+-------------------------------------------= >---- >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message >------ =_NextPart_000_01BD9B90.E8266C30 >Content-Type: application/octet-stream; > name="Tony Johnson.vcf" >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="Tony Johnson.vcf" >BEGIN:VCARD >VERSION:2.1 >N:Johnson;Greg >FN:Tony Johnson >EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:tjohnson@gulfsouth.verio.net >REV:19980326T195655Z >END:VCARD >------ =_NextPart_000_01BD9B90.E8266C30-- >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- bryan k ogawa http://www.primenet.com/~bkogawa/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 05:02:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA18529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 05:02:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA18398 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 05:02:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ernie!bert.kts.org!hm@ppp.net) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc2.ppp.net [194.64.12.42]) by mail.ppp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA29294 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:02:02 +0200 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0yo5IP-002ZjcC; Mon, 22 Jun 98 14:02 MET DST Received: from bert.kts.org(really [194.55.156.2]) by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with smtp id for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:16:18 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #3 built 1998-Feb-14) Received: by bert.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:11:24 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #1 built 1998-Jun-6) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: <199806211432.QAA00255@sos.freebsd.dk> from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= at "Jun 21, 98 04:32:25 pm" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:11:24 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Søren Schmidt wrote: > > Is there any reason to make a VT220 emulation more complete than complete ? > > > > I don't see the point, really. > > Try broadening your mind a bit then, and see what "the competition" > offers. Which competition ?? > The console device is much more that just an emulator... This is _one_ view, Soeren. There might be others. When i read this .... >Generalized mouse support (done). >Cut&paste on text screens (done). >Accent keys (dead keys) (done). >Bitmap display (partly done, 800x600 display on VESA cards). >Simple graphics primitive library. >To come: >VESA modes (text & graphics). >Multi-head consoles. >Emulator & ioctl as modules (ie very small X only console, or vt100 emu). >Simple GUI library. >USB keyboard support. .. then i guess you are pretty much PC centric. Don't get me wrong, this is a valid view to satisfy people coming from Linux, SCO, other PC OSes and Nintendo Game Consoles. Have a look at a machine room of a larger company. What you see is IBM, Sun and HP servers having several sorts of terminals as their console device. There is no mouse, no graphics, no cut&paste, no bitmaps, no GUI, no etc. I have running many FreeBSD machines in such server environments, and the only thing needed there is a bare bones terminal emulator without all this overhead you talk about (or a real terminal instead on an emulator). Ok, personal FreeBSD machines have other needs, which might be better served by syscons (or pcvt, where syscons fails or people don't like the "feeling" which syscons provides). IMHO, both views are valid. And if there are people who feel better with a SCO terminal emulation, then they should be able to run it. And if there are people who feel better with a bare bones VT100/VT220 emulator, then they should be able to run that. Pcvt has its flaws. And multi head consoles is i.e. a good thing pcvt should be able to do. And if i had to start from scratch i would do several things different. Every year or so someone pops up wanting to unify the console drivers. And each time i promise that in case they provide an environment in which pcvt can live i'll do the porting. Never heard of any of them again. But _this_ would be the right way. Provide a framework in which both (and even more) console drivers are possible and which is also portable to other architectures and i'll port pcvt to that environment asap. Broaden _your_ mind a bit, and accept that there are other views, behaviours and usages than yours; that would be even more good in your case being a core team member. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe A duck is like a bicycle because they both have two wheels except the duck (terry@cs.weber.edu) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 05:43:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22975 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 05:43:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyclop.comdiv.inkom.ru (cyclop.comdiv.inkom.ru [193.232.62.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA22965 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 05:43:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyclop@cyclop.comdiv.inkom.ru) Received: (from cyclop@localhost) by cyclop.comdiv.inkom.ru (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA08102; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:52:11 +0400 (MSD) From: cyclop Message-Id: <199806221252.QAA08102@cyclop.comdiv.inkom.ru> Subject: HELP ! To: andre@pipeline.ch (IBS / Andre Oppermann) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:52:10 +0400 (MSD) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <358E3805.EC76A838@pipeline.ch> from "IBS / Andre Oppermann" at "Jun 22, 98 12:55:01 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Where I can find driver for Network Interface Card 3Com905 ( TP only )»? (OS - FreeBSD-2.2.6) It`s not vx0 :-( -- Zamyatin Alexey V. Joint-Stock Bank "INKOMBANK" Tel.: (095) 332-70-79 Fax: (095) 332-70-79 E-mail: cyclop@cyclop.comdiv.inkom.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 06:27:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA29079 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 06:27:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA29070 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 06:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with ESMTP id JAA23726; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:26:54 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: cyclop cc: IBS / Andre Oppermann , dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HELP ! In-Reply-To: <199806221252.QAA08102@cyclop.comdiv.inkom.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, cyclop wrote: > Where I can find driver for Network Interface Card 3Com905 ( TP only )»? > (OS - FreeBSD-2.2.6) It`s not vx0 :-( I just got hit by this one...if yours a 3Com905B? The driver does not yet support the B version of the card, but the 'author' of the driver has one and is working on it... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 07:26:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07573 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:26:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07557 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:26:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02665; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:25:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806221425.QAA02665@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: from Hellmuth Michaelis at "Jun 22, 98 01:11:24 pm" To: hm@kts.org Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:25:16 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Hellmuth Michaelis who wrote: > Broaden _your_ mind a bit, and accept that there are other views, behaviours > and usages than yours; that would be even more good in your case being a core > team member. *sigh* we are clearly not cummunicating here, I guess we have very different wievs on what FreeBSD should/could be. Now, on that point I think I have the broader picture (being a core member as you so kindly mention)... Lets get back to work..... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 07:48:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA11935 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:48:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles244.castles.com [208.214.165.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11827; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:47:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA04195; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806220609.XAA04195@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Amancio Hasty cc: Mike Smith , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper), nirva@ishiboo.com, hasty@netcom.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:56:45 PDT." <199806220556.WAA12875@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:09:52 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >If there's a mechanism for passing abstract/custom (non-mouse, > The short answer is yes. > > > >Bear in mind that the MouseRemote pipe is for MouseRemote controls only, > >not "normal" mouse events > > I think that for fxtv we should try to convert the "X10 Mouse Remote " events > to X events. Sure, presuming that there is a way to get these events into the X server, and out again into the application. First blush suggests that this is nontrivial, and requires changing the X server. Ick. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 09:02:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23389 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23245 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ernie!bert.kts.org!hm@ppp.net) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc2.ppp.net [194.64.12.42]) by mail.ppp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA01375 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:02:03 +0200 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0yo92g-002ZjcC; Mon, 22 Jun 98 18:02 MET DST Received: from bert.kts.org(really [194.55.156.2]) by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with smtp id for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:17:38 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #3 built 1998-Feb-14) Received: by bert.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:12:45 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #1 built 1998-Jun-6) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: <199806221425.QAA02665@sos.freebsd.dk> from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= at "Jun 22, 98 04:25:16 pm" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:12:45 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Søren Schmidt wrote: > *sigh* we are clearly not cummunicating here, I guess we have very different > wievs on what FreeBSD should/could be. Now, on that point I think I have the > broader picture (being a core member as you so kindly mention)... Now, then perhaps its time, that you explain your broader picture to normal human beings. As a core team member of course. I'd like to know - in case i'm on the wrong train - when to leave. Thank you, hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe A duck is like a bicycle because they both have two wheels except the duck (terry@cs.weber.edu) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 09:34:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29165 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:34:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@COPLAND.CODA.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.222.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28984 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:34:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA07552 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:33:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: lkm MALLOC interactions, new proc field Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As part of my work relating to the Coda Project, and other code making use of tickets/tokens/etc for authentication, I am writing a loadable kernel module providing a syscall and hooking some process events (such as fork, exit) to maintain in-kernel Process Authentication Groups (PAGs). However, I have run into a few small problems. 1) I make use of MALLOC_DEFINE() to define three new structure types to track memory use in the lkm. However, when I unload the lkm, vmstat -m gets quite upset. Is there a way I can "unregister" my types with the kernel MALLOC routines to prevent this from happening? (the malloc_type structure is in the lkm's memory space, of course, so this is the source of the problem anyway). Should I just not be doing this? Is this support already there, and it is just that I am leaking memory? :) 2) I am running on a rather old version of -CURRENT on my kernel dev machine right now (January or something :) -- the snap server was down for a while so I have not upgraded. Anyhow, in this version of FreeBSD, the MALLOC(9) man page has an error -- the sample code given reverses the size and typecast fields for MALLOC are reversed. This may have been corrected long since, but thought I would let you know as this was initially puzzling :). 3) I have been going through extreme contortions to maintain state associated with processes without making any modifications to the base FreeBSD kernel, and keeping everything in the lkm. However, this is getting more and more troublesome, and interfering with the structures, etc, I have been using. I don't know if there is interest in moving any of this code into the base FreeBSD distribution (it is currently heavily un-optimized and highly xperimental), but it would be helpful to add a field to the proc structure for use by authentication extensions, perhaps something like this: void *p_authdata; /* extended authentication hook */ As well as a global indicating whether an lkm has claimed the right to use the hook yet. Alternatively, some registration system, and arrays or something, but that is probably overkill. By default, this field would be zero'd at proc creation, but at_fork/etc routines could fill it in as desired. 4) ENOENT is described all over the place as file-not-found -- is there an errno return that is meant to be used as a generic "Object not found" that could be used? "File Not Found" seems like a strange error from perror when a Coda token cannot be retrieved by a supporting daemon :). Thanks, Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 10:02:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04876 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:02:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA04810; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr) Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA14953; Mon, 22 Jun 98 19:06:03 +0200 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 98 19:06:03 +0200 Message-Id: <9806221706.AA14953@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: dom@myrddin.demon.co.uk, dyson@iquest.net, phk@critter.freebsd.dk, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806220714.CAA09283@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> John S Dyson writes: > Damn close. Different in alot of ways, but very similar in others. > We are being careful to avoid looking at Plan9 source, and hope to ^^ and who are "we" ? Jean-Marc _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 10:12:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06462 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:12:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nest.bistbn.com (yury@nest.bistbn.com [209.88.174.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06388 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:11:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yury@nest.bistbn.com) Received: (from yury@localhost) by nest.bistbn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20993 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:11:45 +0300 (IDT) (envelope-from yury) From: Yuri Krichevsky Message-Id: <199806221711.UAA20993@nest.bistbn.com> Subject: Re: Quick question on syscons In-Reply-To: <199806220137.SAA02686@antipodes.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jun 22, 98 04:37:30 am" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:11:45 +0300 (IDT) Reply-To: yury@luckynet.co.il X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Mike Smith: > > You need to execute "vidcontrol -m on" on every ttyv you want to be able > > to cut/paste text to/from. > > Just to point out that on more recently installed system (perhaps only > in the -current branch) the 'allscreens_flags' option in rc.conf can be > utilised to automate this, if you're not using it to set video modes. I think it should be default behavior in case of "-m" option There is no sense to enable moused only on ttyv0. Here is a small patch for /etc/rc.i386 *** rc.i386.orig Mon Jun 22 19:57:04 1998 --- rc.i386 Mon Jun 22 19:57:56 1998 *************** *** 102,108 **** if [ "X${moused_enable}" = X"YES" ] ; then echo -n ' moused' moused ${moused_flags} -p ${moused_port} -t ${moused_type} ! vidcontrol <${viddev} -m on fi echo '.' --- 102,111 ---- if [ "X${moused_enable}" = X"YES" ] ; then echo -n ' moused' moused ${moused_flags} -p ${moused_port} -t ${moused_type} ! for ttyv in /dev/ttyv* ! do ! vidcontrol <${ttyv} -m on ! done fi echo '.' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 10:17:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07194 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:17:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07073; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:16:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12500; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd012376; Mon Jun 22 10:16:02 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA11088; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:15:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806221715.KAA11088@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems and SunOS 4.1.1 To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:15:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, tlambert@primenet.com, johnh@isi.edu, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Jun 21, 98 09:24:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think it is definitely worthwhile to review John's work. The approach > you suggested earlier can easily be made portable, but it is a very very > large project. It reminds me of how Oracle or Sybase are implemented as > large systems with OS-like features. Just implementing the name space > subsystem is not a trivial undertaking. Have a look at namei() and you'll > understand what I'm talking about. Actually, this is false. Three of us implemented full source level FS module portability between FreeBSD and Windows 95 for my previous employer; it wasn't that much work. We also implemented soft updates in FFS before Kirk did (though only in the Windows 95 environment). I personally did the code to support multiple name spaces and Unicode simultaneously through namei. FS work is like any other kernel work; it's not a realm of dark magic... if it's a realm of dark anything, it's a realm of dark politics. The real issue is that there are a lot of people who feel the need for perfect understanding before allowing a change in. Thankfully, there has been a significant uptrend in knowledgable FS hackers recently. I truly don't think the project is that large (having argued for it six ways from Sunday since I first contacted John about including his code in 4.3 based FreeBSD in early 1994). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 10:24:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08573 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:24:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08495; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:23:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04469; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:21:36 +0200 (CEST) To: Terry Lambert cc: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock), Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, johnh@isi.edu, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems and SunOS 4.1.1 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:15:53 -0000." <199806221715.KAA11088@usr06.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:21:36 +0200 Message-ID: <4467.898536096@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wow, all that and still not peace in Yugoslavia ??? -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 10:46:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12958 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:46:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12834; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:46:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01060; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd000923; Mon Jun 22 10:45:13 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA12192; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:44:56 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806221744.KAA12192@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems and SunOS 4.1.1 To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:44:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, michaelh@cet.co.jp, Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, johnh@isi.edu, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com In-Reply-To: <4467.898536096@critter.freebsd.dk> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jun 22, 98 07:21:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Wow, all that and still not peace in Yugoslavia ??? Heh. 8-). Give us time... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 10:57:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15124 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:57:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (ulf@gatekeeper.Alameda.net [207.90.181.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15013 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:56:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.9.0/8.8.6) id KAA29296; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980622105700.D10454@Alameda.net> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:57:00 -0700 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: "r.friess@msg.at" , "'Hackers@freeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: Mylex DAC960 RAID Controller any idea? Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net References: <01BD9DD7.D74D9FC0.r.friess@msg.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <01BD9DD7.D74D9FC0.r.friess@msg.at>; from Rudolf Friess on Mon, Jun 22, 1998 at 12:18:18PM +0200 Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 22, 1998 at 12:18:18PM +0200, Rudolf Friess wrote: > I am using a Mylex DAC960 with a Digital StorageWorks RAID Array 200 > by now in one of our NT4 Servers. > > I want to change the operating system to freeBSD during the next few weeks > since my other Boxes work fine (and fast) with freeBSD. > > I am searching for a freeBSD driver for the Mylex controller and the Network Cards. > Support from Mylex simply answered "freeBSD isnt't supported". > > I can not believe that there is nobody "out there" who did implement a similar System config. > > System config will be: > 2 x Pent.200 Pro / a 128 MB RAM > Adaptek AHA2940 with > system drive 0: 1GB (will be root device) > CDROM Array > Tape Device > Mylex DAC960 3 channel/4MB Cache > channel 1 System Drive 1: 12 GB Raid Level 3/5 > channel 2/3 not in use (by now) > 2 x Olicom 10/100 Network Adapters > > If somebody has a source (or better (**smile**)) working drivers for the Mylex controller I would > be glad to if you give me a address for a starting point where to search. I am working on a driver for the PCI versions of the Mylex DAC960. Just that I am slow in learning kernel functions. But hopefully I will have something working soon. > > Thanks for your help. > > > > Rudolf Friess (RF301-RIPE) WebMaster > Marketing Service GmbH > Raaber Bahngasse 12, A-1100 Vienna , Austria > Voice: (+43-1) 600 6161 Fax: (+43-1) 600 6161 9 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 11:01:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15915 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:01:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15865 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:01:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05897; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:01:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd005839; Mon Jun 22 11:01:02 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA12894; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:00:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806221800.LAA12894@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: state inode (top) problem To: daniel.sundin@engelholm.se (Daniel Sundin) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:00:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980620011743.00862a58@pop.engelholm.se> from "Daniel Sundin" at Jun 20, 98 03:17:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What happens when it pauses for 5-6 seconds, according to top, is that it > goes into an 'inode' state. During that time the CPU usage and SIZE usage > decreases alot, but RES stays normal. You are hung waiting for the inode to be inserted into the inode hash list. Most likely, you are suffering a priority inversion on the combination of the simple_lock on the ufs_ihash_slock, and the i_lock on the inode. You could find out if this is the case by placing a printf() before the lockmgr() call in ufs_ihashins(), and another one after the simple_unlock() call in the same function. If there is a delay showing the lock/unlock on the console, then that could be it. Typically, this would happen if a single inode were attempted to be placed onto the hashlist twice; this should never happen. What this might mean is that an inode is being reused before it is freed. Note that I didn't see anywhere where the lock was released. Depending on the implementation, this could be a problem. I would *expect* to see the release in ufs_ihashrem(), for parity's sake. Given the way this is being used, the lock implementation is less opaque than I'd like. > I'd appricate it alot if someone could either tell me what this > might be caused of, and/or what the STATE inode in top means exactly. > The man pages for -current hasnt been updated to describe the new > states. Neither have the block comments in ufs_ihash.c and ffs_vfsops.c. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 11:14:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18367 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:14:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18250 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:13:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11914; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:12:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd011813; Mon Jun 22 11:12:41 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA13479; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:12:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806221812.LAA13479@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PCVT's death To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:12:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: pechter@shell.monmouth.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Niall Smart" at Jun 20, 98 11:48:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I should hope that pcvt wouldn't die. There are a number > > of us who interact with machines that don't know about SCO Ansi > > or cons25 (including my DEC boxes) and we need something which > > can do real vt100 compatibility. I really don't want to have to run > > screen for this on console screens. > > Well why not tell them about cons25 via termcap or terminfo? Screen size and escape sequence assumptions are hard coded into much VMS software, including but not limited to the EDT editor (the standard system editor). There is specific reliance on having exactly 24 lines, and there is reliance on scrolling regions working precisely correctly. There is also a great deal of hardware and software that depends on correct functioning of the misnamed "XN"/"AM" attributes (which are stated to mean that a CR at the end of line is ignored, but which in reality means the wrap occurs before the 81st character, not after the 80th). Basically, this means on a VT100, I can write the last character on the screen without causing a scroll. The hack for other terminals involves remembering the 79th character, writing the 80th character in the 79th column, position to the 79th column, and doing an "insert char". Amoung the dependent hardware? Most protocol converters, such as the 3278 protocol converter from Black Box, Inc.. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 11:26:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20973 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20901 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:25:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18534; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd018312; Mon Jun 22 11:25:34 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA14649; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:25:31 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806221825.LAA14649@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PCVT's death To: hm@kts.org Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:25:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Jun 21, 98 03:18:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Added functionality that our users expect us to have. > > So, you mean to upgrade to VT320. [ ... ] > Is there any reason to make a VT220 emulation more complete than complete ? > > I don't see the point, really. So you can program the 9th sixel bit independently for national language support for non-ISO 8859-1 based countries. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 11:46:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26098 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:46:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun1 (bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA26006 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:46:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun1 (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA20885 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:45:46 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:45:46 -0400 (EDT) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun1 To: hackers Subject: Questions concerning cache buffer Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am reading the source code of brelse() in file kern/vfs_bio.c and have three questions to ask (I can not find relevant information in the 4.4 BSD book and the buffer management in FreeBSD is somewhat different from that in 4.4BSD): (1) What is a bogus page? How it is used? (2) Does the paged I/O array b_pages[] of a buffer alway have *contiguous* pages? (3) A page can be partially valid and/or dirty. What is the relationship between being valid and being dirty? Thanks a lot. ------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang Department of Computer Science State University of New York at Binghamton Web Site: http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang ------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 13:13:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10725 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10703 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:12:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA07034; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:05:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Hellmuth Michaelis cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > *sigh* we are clearly not cummunicating here, I guess we have very different > > wievs on what FreeBSD should/could be. Now, on that point I think I have the > > broader picture (being a core member as you so kindly mention)... > > Now, then perhaps its time, that you explain your broader picture to normal > human beings. As a core team member of course. #1) I like my mouse pointer. I like it a lot. #2) No one has _seriously_ suggested removing PCVT so long as it works and fulfills a unique purpose, at least not in this thread (which I have read in its entirety). -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 13:34:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14523 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:34:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from avrasya.ispro.net.tr (avrasya.ispro.net.tr [195.174.18.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14054 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:32:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yurtesen@ispro.net.tr) Received: from localhost (yurtesen@localhost) by avrasya.ispro.net.tr (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03253 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:41:33 +0300 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:41:33 +0300 (EET DST) From: Evren Yurtesen To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: - pop3 - URGENT Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hello, here I have a serious problem!!! I have moved all users' mail boxes to their home directories like $HOME/mail now I am not able to find a pop3 daemon which may read them from there! how may I find a pop3 which does this? or how may I modify an existing pop3 daemon? please help! thank you +--------------------------------------------------------+ | Name : Evren Yurtesen - yurtesen@ispro.net.tr | | S-mail: Mithatpasa Cad. No:1079/13 35290 Guzelyali | | Home:+90-232-2857604 Work:+90-232-2463992 Izmir/TURKEY | +--------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 13:50:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16942 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:50:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peotl.tuebingen.netsurf.de (host-336.tuebingen.netsurf.de [195.180.140.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16909; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:49:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thz@tuebingen.netsurf.de) Received: (from thz@localhost) by peotl.tuebingen.netsurf.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00942; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:48:12 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from thz) Message-ID: <19980622224811.65203@tuebingen.netsurf.de> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:48:11 +0200 From: Thomas Zenker To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death References: <199806212054.WAA00892@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C199806212054=2EWAA00892=40sos=2Efreebsd=2Edk=3E=3B_fro?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?m_S=F8ren_Schmidt_on_Sun=2C_Jun_21=2C_1998_at_10=3A54=3A1?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?1PM_+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 10:54:11PM +0200, Søren Schmidt wrote: > In reply to Faried Nawaz who wrote: > > sos@FreeBSD.ORG (Sxren Schmidt) writes: > > > > Try broadening your mind a bit then, and see what "the competition" > > offers. The console device is much more that just an emulator... > > > > Well I guess there is no point in argueing this, we will see what > > the future brings... > > > > It would help if you enumerated what syscons offers now and will offer in > > the (near) future. > > On top of my head there is (in no particular order): > > Generalized mouse support (done). > Cut&paste on text screens (done). > Accent keys (dead keys) (done). > Bitmap display (partly done, 800x600 display on VESA cards). > Simple graphics primitive library. > > To come: > VESA modes (text & graphics). > Multi-head consoles. > Emulator & ioctl as modules (ie very small X only console, or vt100 emu). > Simple GUI library. > USB keyboard support. > This is all nice for a play station, but for "real work" we need a good really working vt100 emulation. FreeBSD is getting too fat anyway. Thomas Zenker To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 13:51:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17304 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:51:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from avrasya.ispro.net.tr (avrasya.ispro.net.tr [195.174.18.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17245 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:50:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yurtesen@ispro.net.tr) Received: from localhost (yurtesen@localhost) by avrasya.ispro.net.tr (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03355 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:59:37 +0300 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:59:37 +0300 (EET DST) From: Evren Yurtesen To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: - pop3 - URGENT Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hello, here I have a serious problem!!! I have moved all users' mail boxes to their home directories like $HOME/mail now I am not able to find a pop3 daemon which may read them from there! how may I find a pop3 which does this? or how may I modify an existing pop3 daemon? please help! thank you +--------------------------------------------------------+ | Name : Evren Yurtesen - yurtesen@ispro.net.tr | | S-mail: Mithatpasa Cad. No:1079/13 35290 Guzelyali | | Home:+90-232-2857604 Work:+90-232-2463992 Izmir/TURKEY | +--------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 14:08:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20965 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:08:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@libya-196.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20860 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:07:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA23592; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:07:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:07:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Allen Smith cc: joelh@gnu.org, njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk, fullermd@futuresouth.com, lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: <9806211530.ZM27643@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, Allen Smith wrote: > On Jun 20, 8:51pm, Joel Ray Holveck (possibly) wrote: > > > > >> You don't need root access, man termcap. > > > man termcap > > > No manual entry found for termcap. > > > You were saying? > > > > termcap(3) is fine 2.2.6 and -current. Try man tgetent, or > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=termcap if you prefer. > > > > (The bottom line is that ~/.termcap is searched.) > > Umm... what makes you think I'm needing to telnet to a _FreeBSD_ > system? The above was on an IRIX machine. As well as UNIXen such as > IRIX that don't have termcap (using terminfo or similar), there are > also VAXes, etcetera. man terminfo :p zippy:~#ls -lad ~/.terminfo drwx------ 64 root wheel 1024 24 Mar 20:39 /usr/home/root/.terminfo/ zippy:~#date Lun 22 Iun 1998 14:07:04 PDT ??? - alex | "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern | | technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." | | Powered by FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 14:18:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23536 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:18:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23399 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:18:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00375; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:17:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806222117.XAA00375@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: from Tim Vanderhoek at "Jun 22, 98 04:05:29 pm" To: hoek@hwcn.org (Tim Vanderhoek) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:17:10 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hm@kts.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Tim Vanderhoek who wrote: > On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > > Now, then perhaps its time, that you explain your broader picture to normal > > human beings. As a core team member of course. > > #1) I like my mouse pointer. I like it a lot. > > #2) No one has _seriously_ suggested removing PCVT so long as it > works and fulfills a unique purpose, at least not in this thread > (which I have read in its entirety). Exactly, I dont know where all this hysteria came from... I said that pcvt is dying because of lack of development and because the author has abandoned it. Those points still holds IMO. End of discussion. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 14:21:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24221 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:21:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24046 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:21:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA10960; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:20:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:20:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Evren Yurtesen cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This probably belongs on -questions or -isp, not -hackers, but oh well. I don't know about pop daemons, but why don't you use symlinks to make the system work until you find a daemon that suits your purposes? On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Evren Yurtesen wrote: > > hello, > here I have a serious problem!!! > I have moved all users' mail boxes to their home directories > like $HOME/mail > now I am not able to find a pop3 daemon which may read them > from there! > how may I find a pop3 which does this? or how may I modify > an existing pop3 daemon? > > please help! > > thank you > > > +--------------------------------------------------------+ > | Name : Evren Yurtesen - yurtesen@ispro.net.tr | > | S-mail: Mithatpasa Cad. No:1079/13 35290 Guzelyali | > | Home:+90-232-2857604 Work:+90-232-2463992 Izmir/TURKEY | > +--------------------------------------------------------+ > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 14:31:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27108 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27015 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:30:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA06226; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:30:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id QAA14897; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:30:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980622163042.06957@mcs.net> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:30:42 -0500 From: Karl Denninger To: Evren Yurtesen Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: ; from Evren Yurtesen on Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 12:41:33AM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 12:41:33AM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: > > hello, > here I have a serious problem!!! > I have moved all users' mail boxes to their home directories > like $HOME/mail > now I am not able to find a pop3 daemon which may read them > from there! > how may I find a pop3 which does this? or how may I modify > an existing pop3 daemon? > > please help! > > thank you This is a TRICKY thing to do correctly, particularly if the home directories are mounted via NFS. BE CAREFUL! - -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 14:34:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27995 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:34:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from avrasya.ispro.net.tr (avrasya.ispro.net.tr [195.174.18.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27842 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:33:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yurtesen@ispro.net.tr) Received: from localhost (yurtesen@localhost) by avrasya.ispro.net.tr (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA04053; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:41:24 +0300 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:41:24 +0300 (EET DST) From: Evren Yurtesen To: ben@rosengart.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sorry I did not see the freebsd-isp list on lists list... I guess I missed it... also I asked it at questions list and nobody could answer... I do not want to have a huge /var/mail directory full of symlinks... I wanted to change the source code of pop3 there it was writing /var/mail I changed it with $HOME/mail but the c compiler thinks $HOME something else... how may I make the compiler to ignore $ sign at front of HOME? thank you +--------------------------------------------------------+ | Name : Evren Yurtesen - yurtesen@ispro.net.tr | | S-mail: Mithatpasa Cad. No:1079/13 35290 Guzelyali | | Home:+90-232-2857604 Work:+90-232-2463992 Izmir/TURKEY | +--------------------------------------------------------+ On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Snob Art Genre wrote: > This probably belongs on -questions or -isp, not -hackers, but oh well. > I don't know about pop daemons, but why don't you use symlinks to make > the system work until you find a daemon that suits your purposes? > > On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Evren Yurtesen wrote: > > > > > hello, > > here I have a serious problem!!! > > I have moved all users' mail boxes to their home directories > > like $HOME/mail > > now I am not able to find a pop3 daemon which may read them > > from there! > > how may I find a pop3 which does this? or how may I modify > > an existing pop3 daemon? > > > > please help! > > > > thank you > > > > > > +--------------------------------------------------------+ > > | Name : Evren Yurtesen - yurtesen@ispro.net.tr | > > | S-mail: Mithatpasa Cad. No:1079/13 35290 Guzelyali | > > | Home:+90-232-2857604 Work:+90-232-2463992 Izmir/TURKEY | > > +--------------------------------------------------------+ > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > Ben > > "You have your mind on computers, it seems." > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 14:35:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28433 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:35:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from avrasya.ispro.net.tr (avrasya.ispro.net.tr [195.174.18.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28255 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:34:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yurtesen@ispro.net.tr) Received: from localhost (yurtesen@localhost) by avrasya.ispro.net.tr (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA04070; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:43:38 +0300 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:43:38 +0300 (EET DST) From: Evren Yurtesen To: Karl Denninger cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT In-Reply-To: <19980622163042.06957@mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hello I do not have any nfs partitions yet, I have arranged procmail to deliver mail to users home directories but I am not able to set pop3 daemon to take that mail from there... I have found some mails on the web that redhat is able to do it with the latest rpm of popper or something like that... should I install redhat? > On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 12:41:33AM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: > > > > hello, > > here I have a serious problem!!! > > I have moved all users' mail boxes to their home directories > > like $HOME/mail > > now I am not able to find a pop3 daemon which may read them > > from there! > > how may I find a pop3 which does this? or how may I modify > > an existing pop3 daemon? > > > > please help! > > > > thank you > > This is a TRICKY thing to do correctly, particularly if the home directories > are mounted via NFS. > > BE CAREFUL! > > - > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin > http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV > | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! > Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS > Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 15:02:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03690 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03610 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:01:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA01252; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:00:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Evren Yurtesen cc: ben@rosengart.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Evren Yurtesen wrote: > sorry I did not see the freebsd-isp list on lists list... > I guess I missed it... > also I asked it at questions list and nobody could answer... > I do not want to have a huge /var/mail directory full of > symlinks... I wanted to change the source code of pop3 > there it was writing /var/mail I changed it with $HOME/mail > but the c compiler thinks $HOME something else... > how may I make the compiler to ignore $ sign at front of HOME? You're trying to use a shell variable in a C program. Read the man page for getpwent(3) to see how to get a user's home directory from the passwd file. Or, if you're hell-bent on using the environment variable, look at getenv(3). I suspect that the former approach is the recommended one, though. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 15:42:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11298 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:42:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (root@[208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11265 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:42:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-152.camalott.com [208.229.74.152] (may be forged)) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18992; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:41:24 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00749; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:41:49 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:41:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806222241.RAA00749@detlev.UUCP> To: ben@rosengart.com CC: yurtesen@ispro.net.tr, ben@rosengart.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Snob Art Genre on Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:00:27 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> symlinks... I wanted to change the source code of pop3 >> there it was writing /var/mail I changed it with $HOME/mail >> but the c compiler thinks $HOME something else... >> how may I make the compiler to ignore $ sign at front of HOME? > You're trying to use a shell variable in a C program. Read the man page > for getpwent(3) to see how to get a user's home directory from the > passwd file. Or, if you're hell-bent on using the environment variable, > look at getenv(3). I suspect that the former approach is the > recommended one, though. $HOME will not be initialized when POP3 runs. You'll have to use getpwent. -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 16:53:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26068 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:53:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26054 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:53:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07442; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:53:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd007383; Mon Jun 22 16:53:17 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA00673; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:53:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806222353.QAA00673@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: LSMTP and Unix (fwd) To: michael@memra.com (Michael Dillon) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:53:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Michael Dillon" at Jun 21, 98 04:06:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Why is this benchmark so slow on UNIX filesystems? I don't think they are. > Will they give out the source to the benchmark so that someone can test > FreeBSD's performance and/or figure out if the benchmark is valid? You should ask them. > I don't know why people always assume that LSMTP will automatically run > faster on unix. Other than pure application code, which is the same on > all systems, Pure application code is *not* the same on all systems; there is context switch overhead, which is not inconsiderable under NT. > LSMTP depends heavily on file I/O, network I/O and > scheduling. NT has low overhead for all three. NT does *not* have low file I/O overhead. Depending on the amount of RAM, it is very easy to saturate the log cache for NTFS. According to a Microsoft "TechNote", to get better FS performance on NT, one should install VFAT. Hardly a ringing endorsement. The network I/O is rather a poor benchmark. NT does not conform to the TCP/IP RFC's, for one thing. This can easily be seen by attempting to place an NT server's connection in "FINWAIT2"; NT drops out of this state illegally soon, most likely in response to the lack of resource tracking in Windows 95. For the ESMTP "Pipelining" extension, this is, in fact, deadly. > In practice the main > source of wasted cycles is file I/O. Here are some figures for a > LISTSERV benchmark that, while not designed specifically for LSMTP, > measures the same kind of I/O that LSMTP does and has been shown to > relate to LSMTP performance. Higher figures mean better performance, > anything above 50 is very good. There are two different benchmarks, I'll > write them down as xx/yy, it is not a ratio but two independent numbers > on the same scale, and in practice you want to worry mainly about the > second one, so I'll arrange the numbers in that order. First NT (all > systems are 4.0 and with the $#%#%# 8.3 DOS compatibility kludge > disabled, which is the first thing we do after installing NT on a fresh > system): [ ... benchmarks for systems without a unified VM and buffer cache and relatively incomparable hardware, as well as no obvious tuning for performance. Note the Linux performance number (64), which is most likely relative to async mounts. Note the secondary numbers -- they appear to be tied to network performance ... ] > Obviously the RAID systems have the best numbers, but it is not as clean > cut as with NT. Some systems have good numbers even without RAID, some > have second rate numbers even with RAID (I have a lot more numbers but I > also have work to do :-) ). Note that Digital unix has a revamped file > system in 4.0, so you can't compare 4.0 and 3.2 directly (4.0 without > RAID would be faster than 53/20). The general idea is that you don't > want to use ufs with LSMTP, but even some of the non-ufs systems are > slowish. I think you don't want to ensure POSIX guarantees for timestamp updates, specifically "atime". It also appears to be tied to synchronus directory operations. THe Digital UNIX 4.x FS is, I believe, using the USL DOW (Delayed Ordered Writes) technology. This technology is significantly inferior to async mounts (per the Linux numbers), and given the likely priority banded FIFO usage patterns of a mail server, soft updates would probably be a significant win on top of this, since it implicitly does write-gathering over the delta covered by the syncer clock depth. (ie: many writes would never go to disk because of FreeBSD's aggressive VM caching policies). > My experience in correlating these numbers with LSMTP performance is > that to get good performance without breaking records, you need to score > around 30 at least on the first test and ideally on both. All NT systems > do that, even the laptop! To break records, you need 100+ ideally, and > no less than 50 on the second test. We still manage to break records on > VMS, but without boring you with RMS details it is a unique file system > with unique issues and in the end you can make it deliver roughly the > same performance as a system scoring say 70, plus VMS was engineered for > lots of asynchronous I/O and is faster in other areas, which compensates > partly for RMS. Even so, the file system is by far the biggest > bottleneck on VMS. VMS clearly outperformed NT with the previous > generation of processors, now it's about even, and soon NT will take the > lead (actually, I think Digital unix will take the lead, but it's too > early to be sure, we only have partial lab results). Most of the VMS buffer cache work came out of the demands in the FS placed by the "Pathworks for VMS (NetWare)" product; I was one of the three Novell engineers who worked on this (Robert Withrow was one of the DEC engineers). Much of the FS cacheing subsystem came out of work by one of the other Novell engineers, Dan Grice. Much if the scheduler issues ("hot engine scheduling", LIFO'ing of work-to-do requests by the processing engines, etc.) Owes a lot to my modifications of the DEC MTS (MultiThreading Services), a call-conversion scheduler for a user space threads implementation., which I pounded very deep into the Mentat Streams Code that I was partly responsible for porting to VMS in support of that product. I would seriously suggest that a lot of small duration calls on a kernel threading environemnt (as one would expect with a reqyest/response, client/server protocol, like SMTP or NetWare's NCP) would fit *very* poorly into a kernel threading environment that did not support some kind of quantum-affinity. This puts a call-conversion scheduler at a GREAT advantage over kernel implementations. Combined, these would well account for the VMS vs. DEC UNIX numbers. You would most likely be able to resolve some of this by using the async I/O facilities in DEC UNIX (or indeed, Linux, Solaris, and FreeBSD) to implement I/O interleaving. > None of this is going to be an issue if you have a small workload, say > 100-200k/day. It is only a problem when you decide to buy a really big > box to deliver a whole bunch of mail. This posting will probably have > been delivered to 98% of its recipients some 20 sec or so from when I > hit "Send," and if it were to take 30 sec instead I am sure you would > survive :-) On the other hand, if your large newsletter had to go out in > 2h and it took 3h instead, it would be another story. These numbers are unreasonably small performance expectations, even assuming most of the time is spent in making DNS requests, and is therefore a latency issue rather than a throughput issue -- your minimal time could only be your maximal pool retention time, in the worst case, which is invariant, and speaks to your connectivity and the size of your DNS cache, more than anything else. THere *are* mailers that can handle a *much* larger load; for example, i.Mail from Software.com: http://www.software.com/Products/InterMail/Intermail.html Which, incidently, runs best on UNIX platforms, and is the primary foundation for AT&T GlobalNet services. It would be better if they were using FreeBSD, but at least they are using a UNIX family system. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 16:55:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26377 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:55:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26347 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:55:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA12566; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:54:55 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199806221711.UAA20993@nest.bistbn.com> References: <199806220137.SAA02686@antipodes.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Jun 22, 98 04:37:30 am" Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:58:42 -0400 To: yury@luckynet.co.il, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Quick question on syscons Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 8:11 PM +0300 6/22/98, Yuri Krichevsky wrote: > I think it should be default behavior in case of "-m" option > There is no sense to enable moused only on ttyv0. > > Here is a small patch for /etc/rc.i386 Should this patch also check to see what configuration is set for each of the virtual devices in /etc/ttys ? --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 16:58:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26854 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:58:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26772 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:57:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26863; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:57:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd026820; Mon Jun 22 16:57:45 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA00953; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:57:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806222357.QAA00953@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: LSMTP and Unix (fwd) To: shocking@prth.tensor.pgs.com (Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:57:42 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806220210.KAA14210@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> from "Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth" at Jun 22, 98 10:10:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Curious - I think the giveaway is in the part of the quote where they state > they VMS was engineered to be able to handle lots of async I/Os. It's quite > possible that the code they're using relies on this. So if your thread > implementation isn't up to scratch (and this is one area where NT shines, see > the part of the quote about scheduling et cetera) you could lose out big time. > Various benchmarks have been released that show NT can schedule huge numbers > of threads very efficiently. On the other hand, its process scheduling is > pretty sad. My feeling is that the filesystem issues may not be a big deal, > unless you filesystem code isn't multi-threaded. More likely, given that the second number was alluded to relate to network performance, they are probably using the NT "SendFile" mechanism. This would be logical, considering the line terminators in the file system and the line terminators in the protocol are both CRLF. This implies that they are "short-cutting" the wire-off/wire-on translations -- specifically, that they are storing the "." session terminators verbatim in order to not have to byte-unstuff/byte-stuff on the way in and out. This is a very old trick. You can see it in the sample POP3 code that came with the NT SDK. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 17:18:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00752 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:18:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.ny.otec.com (bright.ny.otec.com [209.3.16.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00705 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:17:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.ny.otec.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA29074; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:17:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.ny.otec.com: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:17:05 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.ny.otec.com To: Evren Yurtesen cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG this really shouldn't be on the -hackers list, anyhow what you should do then is download the latest version of POPPER and READ some of the documentation. i'm quite sure it's configurable. using $HOME won't work anyhow, because the pop3 deamon isn't running under the user context. $HOME would equate to root most likely... BE CAREFUL!!!! i'm quite confused, can't you just grok the line where it finds out which file to deliver it to and use sprintf carefully? something like i'm expecting "user" to be the username: sprintf(file,"/usr/home/%s/Mailbox",user); whereas it's prolly something along the lines of: (change to above) strcat(something, something.... ) -Alfred On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Evren Yurtesen wrote: > hello > I do not have any nfs partitions yet, > I have arranged procmail to deliver mail to users home directories > but I am not able to set pop3 daemon to take that mail from > there... > I have found some mails on the web that redhat is able to do it > with the latest rpm of popper or something like that... > should I install redhat? > > > On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 12:41:33AM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: > > > > > > hello, > > > here I have a serious problem!!! > > > I have moved all users' mail boxes to their home directories > > > like $HOME/mail > > > now I am not able to find a pop3 daemon which may read them > > > from there! > > > how may I find a pop3 which does this? or how may I modify > > > an existing pop3 daemon? > > > > > > please help! > > > > > > thank you > > > > This is a TRICKY thing to do correctly, particularly if the home directories > > are mounted via NFS. > > > > BE CAREFUL! > > > > - > > -- > > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin > > http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV > > | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! > > Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS > > Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 18:05:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07747 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:05:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA07736 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 27050 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1998 01:05:48 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 1998 01:05:48 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:05:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: "r.friess@msg.at" , "'Hackers@freeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: Mylex DAC960 RAID Controller any idea? In-Reply-To: <19980622105700.D10454@Alameda.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I have several of them sitting here idle with disks, so if you need hardware for testing, don't hesitate to holler, I'm happy to supply. On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > On Mon, Jun 22, 1998 at 12:18:18PM +0200, Rudolf Friess wrote: > > I am using a Mylex DAC960 with a Digital StorageWorks RAID Array 200 > > by now in one of our NT4 Servers. > > > > I want to change the operating system to freeBSD during the next few weeks > > since my other Boxes work fine (and fast) with freeBSD. > > > > I am searching for a freeBSD driver for the Mylex controller and the Network Cards. > > Support from Mylex simply answered "freeBSD isnt't supported". > > > > I can not believe that there is nobody "out there" who did implement a similar System config. > > > > System config will be: > > 2 x Pent.200 Pro / a 128 MB RAM > > Adaptek AHA2940 with > > system drive 0: 1GB (will be root device) > > CDROM Array > > Tape Device > > Mylex DAC960 3 channel/4MB Cache > > channel 1 System Drive 1: 12 GB Raid Level 3/5 > > channel 2/3 not in use (by now) > > 2 x Olicom 10/100 Network Adapters > > > > If somebody has a source (or better (**smile**)) working drivers for the Mylex controller I would > > be glad to if you give me a address for a starting point where to search. > > I am working on a driver for the PCI versions of the Mylex DAC960. Just that > I am slow in learning kernel functions. But hopefully I will have something > working soon. > > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > > > > > Rudolf Friess (RF301-RIPE) WebMaster > > Marketing Service GmbH > > Raaber Bahngasse 12, A-1100 Vienna , Austria > > Voice: (+43-1) 600 6161 Fax: (+43-1) 600 6161 9 > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- > Ulf. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 18:41:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00803 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:41:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00784; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id BAA18350; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:30:09 GMT Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:30:09 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers , Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems and SunOS 4.1.1 In-Reply-To: <199806221715.KAA11088@usr06.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry, You're missing the point. The original proposal was for a non-stacked userland fs development environment where everything was to implemented from scratch so that it could be made as portable as possible. Is this ... 1) easy 2) less easy ... compared to the approach you used at your previous employer. ;-) Regards, Mike Hancock On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I think it is definitely worthwhile to review John's work. The approach > > you suggested earlier can easily be made portable, but it is a very very > > large project. It reminds me of how Oracle or Sybase are implemented as > > large systems with OS-like features. Just implementing the name space > > subsystem is not a trivial undertaking. Have a look at namei() and you'll > > understand what I'm talking about. > > Actually, this is false. Three of us implemented full source level FS > module portability between FreeBSD and Windows 95 for my previous > employer; it wasn't that much work. > > We also implemented soft updates in FFS before Kirk did (though only > in the Windows 95 environment). > > I personally did the code to support multiple name spaces and Unicode > simultaneously through namei. > > FS work is like any other kernel work; it's not a realm of dark magic... > if it's a realm of dark anything, it's a realm of dark politics. The > real issue is that there are a lot of people who feel the need for > perfect understanding before allowing a change in. Thankfully, there > has been a significant uptrend in knowledgable FS hackers recently. > > I truly don't think the project is that large (having argued for it > six ways from Sunday since I first contacted John about including > his code in 4.3 based FreeBSD in early 1994). > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 19:10:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02783 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:10:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02716 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:09:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-217.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.217]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA05053; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:09:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10715; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:04:54 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199806230204.VAA10715@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dyson@iquest.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) In-reply-to: Message from "John S. Dyson" of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:01:01 CDT." <199806220801.DAA09385@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:04:54 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id TAA02719 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "John S. Dyson" writes: > Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav said: > > I'm holding my breath until you tell us the name of the project you're > > working on :) > > > The name "G2" was suggested, so that is the codename for now. It > kind-of means "Generation 2". You're not going to call it, "FreeBSD 4.0"? ;-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 19:36:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00803 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:41:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00784; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id BAA18350; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:30:09 GMT Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:30:09 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers , Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems and SunOS 4.1.1 In-Reply-To: <199806221715.KAA11088@usr06.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry, You're missing the point. The original proposal was for a non-stacked userland fs development environment where everything was to implemented from scratch so that it could be made as portable as possible. Is this ... 1) easy 2) less easy ... compared to the approach you used at your previous employer. ;-) Regards, Mike Hancock On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I think it is definitely worthwhile to review John's work. The approach > > you suggested earlier can easily be made portable, but it is a very very > > large project. It reminds me of how Oracle or Sybase are implemented as > > large systems with OS-like features. Just implementing the name space > > subsystem is not a trivial undertaking. Have a look at namei() and you'll > > understand what I'm talking about. > > Actually, this is false. Three of us implemented full source level FS > module portability between FreeBSD and Windows 95 for my previous > employer; it wasn't that much work. > > We also implemented soft updates in FFS before Kirk did (though only > in the Windows 95 environment). > > I personally did the code to support multiple name spaces and Unicode > simultaneously through namei. > > FS work is like any other kernel work; it's not a realm of dark magic... > if it's a realm of dark anything, it's a realm of dark politics. The > real issue is that there are a lot of people who feel the need for > perfect understanding before allowing a change in. Thankfully, there > has been a significant uptrend in knowledgable FS hackers recently. > > I truly don't think the project is that large (having argued for it > six ways from Sunday since I first contacted John about including > his code in 4.3 based FreeBSD in early 1994). > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 20:08:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11582 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:08:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA11574 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:08:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 20708 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1998 03:08:01 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 1998 03:08:01 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:08:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: squid-users@ircache.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Transparent proxy success with Alteon and FreeBSD 2.2.6 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Using an Alteon switch and ip_fil3.2.9 with FreeBSD 2.2.6 and squid 1.1.21 seems to give me a rock solid transparent proxy solution. I have not completed all the testing I would like to do yet, but it appears to work. Of course, there is no useful data on which host is coming in, I'm hoping that's in the transproxy package, but it currently doesn't compile on 2.2-stable, only 3.0. I may upgrade to 3.0. If anybody wants a quick run-down on what I did, I'd be happy to share. I'm very pleased that this worked, because I was not getting excited about firing up Linux to do it. Now to set up some serious pounding. I guess I could process some old store.log's from another squid sibling. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 22 20:54:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18107 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:54:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18057; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:54:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24405; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:54:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd024319; Mon Jun 22 20:54:08 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA06135; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:54:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806230354.UAA06135@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems and SunOS 4.1.1 To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 03:54:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Jun 23, 98 10:30:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You're missing the point. The original proposal was for a non-stacked > userland fs development environment where everything was to implemented > from scratch so that it could be made as portable as possible. > > Is this ... > > 1) easy > 2) less easy > > ... compared to the approach you used at your previous employer. ;-) Do I get all the VOP patches and private vnode management patches, and my own advisory locking patches (it's easy to proxy a veto interface, hard to proxy a lockmgr() call) and my namei() patches (the origin of ISUNICODE in namei.h) and nameifree() as a base to work with? If so, then it's about the same. Much of the work in Windows 95 was mapping the IFSMgr calls to VOP's, on the top end, and emulating about 70 kernel interfaces (down from the 126 FreeBSD's FFS requires) in Windows 95 Ring 0. Much of the complexity there was in the timer outcall for the syncd, since Windows 95 "semaphores" are unfortunately thread reentrant. Most of the remaining 70 interfaces have corrolaries in FreeBSD user space, being that FreeBSD is FreeBSD derived. 8-). Do I have to proxy the grotesqueries that are the cookie interface, instead of spliting the directory lookup, directory entry copyout, the nameifree() asymmetry, etc.? Then it's about twice the work. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 02:21:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00805 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:21:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00719 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:21:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20998; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806230917.CAA20998@implode.root.com> To: zhihuizhang cc: hackers Subject: Re: Questions concerning cache buffer In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:45:46 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:17:27 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >(1) What is a bogus page? How it is used? It is used as a placeholder for doing partial buffer reads when a modified page exists in the another part of the buffer. >(2) Does the paged I/O array b_pages[] of a buffer alway have *contiguous* >pages? No. >(3) A page can be partially valid and/or dirty. What is the relationship >between being valid and being dirty? Not sure I can answer this to your satisfaction, but support for partial valid/dirty pages is there mainly to support filesystems with less-than- pagesize blocks. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 05:05:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29968 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 05:05:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.15.68.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29959 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 05:05:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reilly@zeta.org.au) Received: from zeta.org.au (d29.syd2.zeta.org.au [203.26.11.29]) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21537 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:05:43 +1000 Received: (qmail 22732 invoked by uid 1000); 23 Jun 1998 08:00:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19980623180009.36116@gurney.reilly.home> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:00:09 +1000 From: Andrew Reilly To: Evren Yurtesen Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.67e In-Reply-To: ; from Evren Yurtesen on Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 12:41:33AM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Evren Yurtesen said: > I have moved all users' mail boxes to their home directories > like $HOME/mail > now I am not able to find a pop3 daemon which may read them > from there! > how may I find a pop3 which does this? or how may I modify > an existing pop3 daemon? I haven't used it myself, but there's a POP3 daemon associated with Dan Bernstein's qmail system. Since qmail wants to store messages in $HOME by default, it seems likely that the pop daemon will know how to get at them. To the others who have mentioned that there are dangers associated with such a configuration: what are they? Dan's arguments in favour of the arrangement seemed pretty convincing to me. -- Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 05:50:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA07450 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 05:50:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA07422 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 05:50:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id OAA26440; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:50:07 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:43:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Andrew Reilly cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT In-Reply-To: <19980623180009.36116@gurney.reilly.home> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > To the others who have mentioned that there are dangers associated > with such a configuration: what are they? Dan's arguments in favour > of the arrangement seemed pretty convincing to me. Home directories are very often stored on NFS drvies. If you ask sendmail to store a message on a NFS mounted drive that is unavailable, it blocks until the drive becomes available. By that time the message has been accepted and deleted from the senders queue. If the sendmail dos not succeed in saving that message into the box because the NFS drive does not come online, that implies the message is lost. Are at least that is what I think will happen. Nick STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, Italy building: 27A tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 06:21:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11851 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 06:21:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from king.ki.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (king.ki.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de [141.2.10.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11793 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 06:20:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@king.ki.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de) Received: (from marko@localhost) by king.ki.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (8.7.1/8.7.1) id PAA29473; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:20:18 +0200 (MESZ) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:20:18 +0200 (MESZ) Message-Id: <199806231320.PAA29473@king.ki.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> From: Marko Schuetz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: forwarded message from Ronan Gaugne X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under Emacs 20.2.1 Reply-To: marko@cs.uni-frankfurt.de Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mailout1.mailbase.ac.uk (mailout1.mailbase.ac.uk [128.240.226.11]) by king.ki.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de with ESMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id KAA28760 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:46:42 +0200 (METDST) Received: from naga.mailbase.ac.uk (naga.mailbase.ac.uk [128.240.226.3]) by mailout1.mailbase.ac.uk (8.8.x/Mailout) with ESMTP id JAA15412; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:42:19 +0100 (BST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by naga.mailbase.ac.uk (8.8.x/Mailbase) id JAA08314; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:37:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from news.irisa.fr (news.irisa.fr [131.254.254.15]) by naga.mailbase.ac.uk (8.8.x/Mailbase) with ESMTP id JAA08303; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:37:45 +0100 (BST) Received: (from news@localhost) by news.irisa.fr (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22608; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:37:42 +0200 (MET DST) Path: not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.compilers,comp.software-eng Organization: IRISA, Campus de Beaulieu, 35042 Rennes Cedex, FRANCE Lines: 66 Message-ID: <358F6953.4C66@irisa.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: cuba.irisa.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4m) X-List: eapls@mailbase.ac.uk X-Unsub: To leave, send text 'leave eapls' to mailbase@mailbase.ac.uk X-List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: Ronan Gaugne Errors-To: eapls-request@mailbase.ac.uk Precedence: list From: Ronan Gaugne Sender: eapls-request@mailbase.ac.uk To: eapls@mailbase.ac.uk Subject: The first release of the Tempo Specializer Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:37:39 +0200 ------------------------------------------------ Tempo Specializer, a partial evaluator for C ------------------------------------------------ IRISA / INRIA - University of Rennes 1 The Compose group is pleased to announce the first public release of the Tempo Specializer, a partial evaluator for C programs developed at IRISA / INRIA - University of Rennes 1. PARTIAL EVALUATION Partial evaluation is the process that automates specialization, a program transformation that adapts programs with respect to a given execution context. Exploiting this context allows a generic program to be instantiated for a particular environment. The instantiated program is optimized in the sense that all the operations depending on the given context are already performed: it is faster, sometimes smaller. TEMPO Tempo is an off-line specializer: specialization is divided into two steps. First, a program analysis propagates information about known and unknown values throughout the code. A colored interface lets the user assess the degree of specialization. Then, actual specialization values are provided and specialized code is produced. Tempo can specialize programs at compile time (i.e., source-to-source tranformation) as well as at run time (i.e., run-time code generation). APPLICATIONS Tempo has been used to dramatically improve the performance of a wide range of commodity operating systems components, including Sun's RPC, Unix signal delivery, and the Berkeley packet filter. Besides operating systems and networking, Tempo has also been successfully applied to computer graphics, scientific computation, software engineering and domain specific languages. Some demos are available with the release, which include the Berkeley packet filter and a light version of the Sun's RPC. DISTRIBUTION This release follows the success of a Tempo workshop organized at IRISA, March 16-18, 1998. Tempo is currently being used at a dozen sites in academia (including MIT, DIKU, and Oregon Graduate Institute) as well as industry (including Thomson, Canon, Bull and France Telecom). Instructions describing how to get the Tempo Specializer are given at URL http://www.irisa.fr/compose/tempo/#distribution Tempo can run on three platforms: Sun OS 4.1, Sun OS 5.5 (i.e., Solaris 2.5) and Linux 2.0 on PC. INFORMATION More details can be found on our web pages concerning - the Compose project: http://www.irisa.fr/compose/ - Tempo Specializer: http://www.irisa.fr/compose/tempo - on-line documentation: http://www.irisa.fr/compose/tempo/doc - selected publications: http://www.irisa.fr/compose/papers - selected talks: http://www.irisa.fr/compose/talks In case of any questions or problems, please send mail to tempo@irisa.fr. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 07:05:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17640 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:05:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17631; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:05:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00321; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:03:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:03:21 +0200 Message-ID: <315.898610601.1@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: Heads up: block devices to disappear! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa" Content-Description: Blind Carbon Copy Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To: undisclosed-recipients:; ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Description: Original Message To: phk@freebsd.org Subject: Heads up: block devices to disappear! From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:03:21 +0200 Message-ID: <315.898610601@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Unless compelling evidence to the contrary is presented, I will remove blockdevices as a concept from FreeBSD RSN. In the future all devices will be character devices, and mounts will happen using these as well. Adequate compatibility code will be provided. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 07:33:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA23893 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:33:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA23858; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:33:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01543; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:33:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Søren Schmidt cc: Tim Vanderhoek , hm@kts.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: <199806222117.XAA00375@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: > In reply to Tim Vanderhoek who wrote: > > #2) No one has _seriously_ suggested removing PCVT so long as it > > works and fulfills a unique purpose, at least not in this thread > > (which I have read in its entirety). > > Exactly, I dont know where all this hysteria came from... It came from confusion between "dead" as in "dead in the water" and "dead" as in "ready to be carted off and buried". You apparently meant the former, and some people thought you meant the latter. No mystery here. > I said that pcvt is dying because of lack of development and because the > author has abandoned it. Those points still holds IMO. End of discussion. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 07:50:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27308 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:50:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tversu.ru (root@mail.tversu.ru [62.76.80.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27115 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:50:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vadim@gala.tversu.ru) Received: from gala.tversu.ru (vadim@gala.tversu.ru [62.76.80.10]) by tversu.ru (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA08697; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:48:49 +0400 (MSD) Received: (from vadim@localhost) by gala.tversu.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05458; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:46:00 +0400 (MSD) Message-ID: <19980623184559.A5441@tversu.ru> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:45:59 +0400 From: Vadim Kolontsov To: Evren Yurtesen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.11i In-Reply-To: ; from Evren Yurtesen on Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 12:59:37AM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 12:59:37AM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: > here I have a serious problem!!! > I have moved all users' mail boxes to their home directories > like $HOME/mail. now I am not able to find a pop3 daemon which may read > them from there! how may I find a pop3 which does this? or how may I > modify an existing pop3 daemon? Try ipop3d from uw-imap. It (as well as imapd) has the ability to work with mailboxes in home directories. Regards, V. -- Vadim Kolontsov Tver Internet Center NOC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 08:25:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03331 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:25:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03321 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:25:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28804; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:25:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Nick Hibma cc: Andrew Reilly , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Nick Hibma wrote: > By that time the message has been accepted and deleted from the senders > queue. If the sendmail dos not succeed in saving that message into the > box because the NFS drive does not come online, that implies the > message is lost. > > Are at least that is what I think will happen. It will stay in the queue of the system doing the local delivery until local delivery succeeds or fails. Failure modes determine if the message is bounced or delivery is attempted at a later time. RTFM /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 08:51:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07096 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picasso.wcape.school.za (picasso.wcape.school.za [196.21.102.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA07073 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:50:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pvh@leftside.wcape.school.za) Received: from uucp by picasso.wcape.school.za with local-rmail (Exim 1.92 #2) for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org id 0yoVLO-00041a-00; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:50:50 +0200 Received: from localhost (pvh@localhost) by leftside.wcape.school.za (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA05348 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:47:01 +0200 (SAT) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:47:00 +0200 (SAT) From: Peter van Heusden To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Having recently worked on a WWW oriented user interface for FreeBSD, and looked at some recent work on similar projects, I've been thinking about the problems of providing an alternative interface to configuring FreeBSD (alternative to vi, that is). Basically, the problem operates on 2 levels - the first, and easiest to solve, is automating the editing of various configuration files (/etc/rc.conf, /etc/crontab and others). The second problem is structuring changes to the configuration in a meaningful way - for instance, if a modem is connected to the computer on /dev/cuaa1, both PPP and UUCP will probably want to talk to /dev/cuaa1. One could 'solve' the second problem by locking configuration file changes into an 'object model' - e.g. your configuration is only valid if it fits rigidly to some other 'model' of how your computer is set up - i.e. the port your UUCP talks to must be defined as a port that a modem is on in some database (AIX ODM/Windows Registry/whatever). This 'solution' effectively makes the textual configuration files just a representation of some other database. But FreeBSD people want to live in both worlds - new users often want the ease of use of a structured configuration environment, advanced users want to be able to do whatever they want, even if it doesn't appear 'sane'. After thinking about this, I concluded that maybe the best approach would be to think of two levels of representation, and resolve the conflicts (if any) between them using 'hints'. What this would mean in practice is: 1) A set of tools can convert all the textual config files into some abstract representation (variable = value for most). Textual config files are extended by adding markup (maybe in the comments) which links various variables to the database specified below. (e.g. network_interfaces should somehow 'know' what the system 'knows' about existing network interfaces on the computer) 2) A database is maintained about the configuration of the system. This database contains both information gleaned in the boot process (e.g. we have a sio0, sio1) and information specified by the user (a modem is attached to sio1). 3) A set of tools allow the user to alter the configuration of the text files, suggesting reasonable values from the database. In the case that changes to the text files have been made (e.g. with vi) which appear to be illogical (e.g. the modem init string for PPP is different to the one specified for UUCP), the user is warned of this inconsistency, and can either a) make the values consistent, or b) tell the system that the inconsistency is intentional, in which case the database stores a 'hint' telling itself not to warn the user about the 'problem' again. Of course, the implementation of this is going to be quite complex - for instance, in UUCP, the 'port' line in the 'sys' file refers to a 'port' defined in the 'port' file, which refers to a 'dialer' specified in the 'dial' file - automating the admin of that is hardly changing 1 variable. (Although it would possibly be made easier if a whole range of 'common' values for ports are pre-defined in the 'port' file) Anyway, the above is mostly random musing towards trying to get a solution for this problem - I'd appreciate anyone's comments. Peter -- Peter van Heusden | Computers Networks Reds Greens Justice Peace Beer Africa pvh@leftside.wcape.school.za | Support the SAMWU 50 litres campaign! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 09:14:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10698 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:14:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from noether.blah.org (mp-13-62.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.58.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10673 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:14:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ada@noether.lab.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from ada@localhost) by noether.blah.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA23998; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:12:56 +1000 (EST) From: Ada Message-Id: <199806231612.CAA23998@noether.blah.org> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: From Thomas Zenker at "Jun 22, 98 10:48:11 pm" To: thz@tuebingen.netsurf.de (Thomas Zenker) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:12:56 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: ada@bsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This is all nice for a play station, but for "real work" we need a good > really working vt100 emulation. FreeBSD is getting too fat anyway. Ha! For real work, you should have a serial console hooked up to a terminal server hooked up to the serial ports of all your machines, each of which lives in a rack. Video cards are for X. Serial consoles are for console. -- "It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English -- up to fifty words used in correct context -- no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese." -- Carl Sagan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 10:07:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21971 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:07:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21951 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:07:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (tao.tera.com [207.108.223.55]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14610; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id KAA04525; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:07:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199806231707.KAA04525@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration In-Reply-To: from Peter van Heusden at "Jun 23, 98 05:47:00 pm" To: pvh@leftside.wcape.school.za (Peter van Heusden) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Peter van Heusden: > Having recently worked on a WWW oriented user interface for FreeBSD, and > looked at some recent work on similar projects, I've been thinking about > the problems of providing an alternative interface to configuring FreeBSD > (alternative to vi, that is). > [[ ... ]] Having set up tip, uucp, and much more by-hand many times over the years, I'll say straight away that having some plug-and-Work alternative would've gotten my vote. Long ago. You already understand the complexities, so I won't belabor the evident. I'll offer this, tho: that your interface have tk* (tkperl|tk//tcl) that would let people enter vi anywhere. Also that it be flexible enough to be ported to SCO and Linux and WhateverFlavor of unix people choose. I used SVR4 for several years before returning to my BSD roots, but then installed Debian Linux and faced the problems of re-familiarizing myself with the System-5 methods. Having a configuration tool that works across models would be a win; as a long-term goal. Short-term, I think that flexibility is a major objective. gary -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 10:34:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27031 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:34:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (intranet.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27022 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:34:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA316; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:32:23 +0200 Message-ID: <358FE6D8.80DF9D76@pipeline.ch> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:33:12 +0200 From: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter van Heusden CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter van Heusden wrote: -snip- > 1) A set of tools can convert all the textual config files into > some abstract representation (variable = value for most). Textual config > files are extended by adding markup (maybe in the comments) which links > various variables to the database specified below. (e.g. > network_interfaces should somehow 'know' what the system 'knows' about > existing network interfaces on the computer) Try to sit on a Netware 4.11 server console and look into the tools they have, eg. monitor, inetcfg, syscon, servman, tcpcon etc. (use load ... to get it). It's a very nice curses based config system and edits config files on the end. -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 10:36:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27420 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hscmg02.hou.ucarb.com ([144.68.4.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27377 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:36:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from NguyenHM@ucarb.com) Received: by hscmg02.hou.ucarb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:35:53 -0500 Message-ID: <332F90115D96D0119CD500805FEA976B016FFF66@HSCMS01> From: "Nguyen HM (Mike)" To: thz@tuebingen.netsurf.de, ada@bsd.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: PCVT's death Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:34:59 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Or just access the terminal servers over the network. We have it that way, so we can access any system's console from anywhere on the network (with a SecurID token). It's nice; our machines are all in WVA and I do not want to live in WVA, and with this arrangement, I don't have to. Mike. // Mike Nguyen // Unix Systems Analyst and Geek // Union Carbide Corporation * (281) 212-8073 // nguyenhm@ucarb.com * mikenguyen@sprintmail.com (personal) > ---------- > From: Ada[SMTP:ada@noether.lab.usyd.edu.au] > Reply To: ada@bsd.org > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 11:12 AM > To: thz@tuebingen.netsurf.de > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: PCVT's death > > > This is all nice for a play station, but for "real work" we need a > good > > really working vt100 emulation. FreeBSD is getting too fat anyway. > > Ha! > > For real work, you should have a serial console hooked up to a > terminal > server hooked up to the serial ports of all your machines, each of > which > lives in a rack. > > Video cards are for X. Serial consoles are for console. > > -- > "It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to > have > learned English -- up to fifty words used in correct context -- no > human > being has been reported to have learned dolphinese." > -- Carl Sagan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 10:39:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27911 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:39:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27896 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:39:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22683 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:39:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806231739.KAA22683@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: option MROUTING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:39:36 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Any reason why MROUTING is not enabled in the default kernel configuration. If there isn't any please enable it . Amancio ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: mbone-na-owner@ISI.EDU Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18702 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:14:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mbone-na-owner@ISI.EDU) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id HAA15442 for mbone-na-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id HAA15407 for mbone-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA15402 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from theory.cs.uni-bonn.de (theory.cs.uni-bonn.de [131.220.4.161]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA15455 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cauchy.cs.uni-bonn.de (cauchy.cs.uni-bonn.de [131.220.4.169]) by theory.cs.uni-bonn.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01085; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:38:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ignatios Souvatzis Received: (ignatios@localhost) by cauchy.cs.uni-bonn.de (8.8.8/8.6.9) id QAA10744; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:38:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199806221438.QAA10744@cauchy.cs.uni-bonn.de> Subject: Re: OS patches for IP Multicast In-Reply-To: <199806221354.WAA15571@aohakobe.ipc.chiba-u.ac.jp> from Yozo Toda at "Jun 22, 98 10:54:42 pm" To: yozo@aohakobe.ipc.chiba-u.ac.jp (Yozo Toda) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:38:48 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-mbone-na@ISI.EDU Precedence: bulk > > > FreeBSD, NetBSD, BSD-OS (all the 4.4BSD-derived OSes) have Multicast (and > > DVMRP Multicast-routing) capabilities out of the box. > > OpenBSD 2.2 GENERIC kernel is compiled without multicast routing capability; > you should re-compile the kernel with "option MROUTING" added > to the kernel config file when you want to use it as a multicast router. > (the most recent release is 2.3 which I don't yet try.) > > I wonder NetBSD is in the similar situation? Yes... but thats why you get the OS sources and the compiler. -is ------- End of Forwarded Message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 10:56:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00567 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:56:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00560 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:56:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19966; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:56:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806231756.MAA19966@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) In-Reply-To: <199806230204.VAA10715@nospam.hiwaay.net> from David Kelly at "Jun 22, 98 09:04:54 pm" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net (David Kelly) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:56:14 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Kelly said: > "John S. Dyson" writes: > > Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav said: > > > I'm holding my breath until you tell us the name of the project you're > > > working on :) > > > > > The name "G2" was suggested, so that is the codename for now. It > > kind-of means "Generation 2". > > You're not going to call it, "FreeBSD 4.0"? ;-) > No, and in fact, BSD apparently won't be in the name at all. There are both legal and technical reasons why it won't be there. There will be code of BSD heritage in the kernel, and some code with BSD heritage in userland. It won't have the (non-threaded) structure of a BSD kernel, but likely will have many of the same pieces, in one form or another. Note that I am not in the "naming", "infrastructure" or "interface with other organizations or groups" department on the project. :-). That is a job for those who do that much better than I can. However, I can effectively talk about kernels and OS code, because I am participating more in that area. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 11:02:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01422 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:02:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01408 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:02:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ernie!bert.kts.org!hm@ppp.net) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc2.ppp.net [194.64.12.42]) by mail.ppp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA22314 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:02:03 +0200 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0yoXOM-002ZjcC; Tue, 23 Jun 98 20:02 MET DST Received: from bert.kts.org(really [194.55.156.2]) by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with smtp id for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:50:50 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #3 built 1998-Feb-14) Received: by bert.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:45:59 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #1 built 1998-Jun-6) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: from Snob Art Genre at "Jun 23, 98 10:33:36 am" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:45:59 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Snob Art Genre wrote: > > Exactly, I dont know where all this hysteria came from... > > It came from confusion between "dead" as in "dead in the water" and > "dead" as in "ready to be carted off and buried". > > You apparently meant the former, and some people thought you meant the > latter. No mystery here. No mystery, exactly. This understanding was even strengthened by a discussion style of "Mine is for shure longer than yours. And hey, _i_ am the core member". How much more politely and more core-team-member behaving would it have been to just ask: "Hey Hellmuth, don't you think its time to update pcvt and better integrate into FreeBSD ?". He would have gotten the answer, "shure i know its time for doing something on pcvt, but not right now - you know i'm working on that ISDN driver all the time - and when that stabilizes, i hope to find time to work on pcvt a bit more, ok ?" Instead it was communicated "Syscons is THE console driver. I'm a core team member. I don't care if pcvt just runs, i want to get rid of this trash. End of discussion". If you were the author of pcvt and really need it, you wouldn't have liked this too. And unfortunately my discussion style is not the best. I'm sorry for that. Sigh, hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe A duck is like a bicycle because they both have two wheels except the duck (terry@cs.weber.edu) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 11:26:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06288 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:26:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA06249 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:26:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 13105 invoked by uid 1017); 23 Jun 1998 17:23:23 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:23:23 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: Nick Hibma , Andrew Reilly , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: - pop3 - URGENT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I use MX aliases to deliver mail to our NFS server, so the local delivery does not depend on Network F(a)il(ur)e Systems. I use qmail on all machines, so that local mail attempts (from cron jobs, vi crashes, etc.) are all forwarded to mail.atipa.com as well as outside mails. We use qpopper for pop3 through TCP wrappers, statically compiled to look for mail in $USER/Mailbox. Qpopper properly uses getpwent() if you know what you re doing. PS - Why is this on -HACKERS? On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Nick Hibma wrote: > > By that time the message has been accepted and deleted from the senders > > queue. If the sendmail dos not succeed in saving that message into the > > box because the NFS drive does not come online, that implies the > > message is lost. > > > > Are at least that is what I think will happen. > > It will stay in the queue of the system doing the local delivery until > local delivery succeeds or fails. > > Failure modes determine if the message is bounced or delivery is attempted > at a later time. > > RTFM > > /* > Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life > winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to > http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 > */ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 11:30:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06988 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:30:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06901 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:29:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA14955 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd014947; Tue Jun 23 18:23:41 1998 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:23:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: IFMX for Linux (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG anyone want to test the linux emulation with this? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:51:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Gene Snider To: julian@whistle.com, ecsd@transbay.net Subject: IFMX for Linux We apparently have a Linux port of our 7.2 engine available for Beta development, if anyone is interrested. We are working out an interface to the Apache server. Let me know if you want to get into the Beta program.. Gene -- ============================================================================== Gene Snider Oakland: 510/628-3939 Menlo Park: 650/926-6502 ---- To live a moral life it is necessary to do more than is required and less than is permitted. - Pleiades ============================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 11:39:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08978 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:39:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA08956 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:39:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 13320 invoked by uid 1017); 23 Jun 1998 17:36:27 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:36:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: Peter van Heusden cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Registry? Well, you can look to MS for how NOT TO DO IT. I think that an object-based heirarchy is appropriate, but is should not be byte-compiled. In the event of ld/lib failures, one would need to navigate w/o any dynamic utilities (like a web server, visual editor, etc.). The "database" should be ASCII, and lean (like rc.conf, resolv.conf, etc., etc.). I don't see why you would need to cahnge any of these type files. In the case of UUCP/PPP/getty/etc. types of conflicts, I'd say just make am ASCII resource file, and add to it only problems like this one that may arise. No need to reinvent the wheel. Just my $.02. I think it is a good and needed plan, but it should not sacrafice the stability of a system, which is paramount. I think the slickest way to have a good text-modifying web interface is w/ Brent Welch's tclhttpd, available from sunscript.sun.com, or from scriptics.com. It is a really nice way to imbed httpd into all type of interfaces. Kevin On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Peter van Heusden wrote: > Having recently worked on a WWW oriented user interface for FreeBSD, and > looked at some recent work on similar projects, I've been thinking about > the problems of providing an alternative interface to configuring FreeBSD > (alternative to vi, that is). > > Basically, the problem operates on 2 levels - the first, and easiest to > solve, is automating the editing of various configuration files > (/etc/rc.conf, /etc/crontab and others). The second problem is structuring > changes to the configuration in a meaningful way - for instance, if a > modem is connected to the computer on /dev/cuaa1, both PPP and UUCP will > probably want to talk to /dev/cuaa1. > > One could 'solve' the second problem by locking configuration file changes > into an 'object model' - e.g. your configuration is only valid if it fits > rigidly to some other 'model' of how your computer is set up - i.e. the > port your UUCP talks to must be defined as a port that a modem is on in > some database (AIX ODM/Windows Registry/whatever). This 'solution' > effectively makes the textual configuration files just a representation of > some other database. > > But FreeBSD people want to live in both worlds - new users often want the > ease of use of a structured configuration environment, advanced users > want to be able to do whatever they want, even if it doesn't appear > 'sane'. > > After thinking about this, I concluded that maybe the best approach would > be to think of two levels of representation, and resolve the conflicts (if > any) between them using 'hints'. What this would mean in practice is: > > 1) A set of tools can convert all the textual config files into > some abstract representation (variable = value for most). Textual config > files are extended by adding markup (maybe in the comments) which links > various variables to the database specified below. (e.g. > network_interfaces should somehow 'know' what the system 'knows' about > existing network interfaces on the computer) > > 2) A database is maintained about the configuration of the system. This > database contains both information gleaned in the boot process (e.g. we > have a sio0, sio1) and information specified by the user (a modem is > attached to sio1). > > 3) A set of tools allow the user to alter the configuration of the text > files, suggesting reasonable values from the database. In the case that > changes to the text files have been made (e.g. with vi) which appear to be > illogical (e.g. the modem init string for PPP is different to the one > specified for UUCP), the user is warned of this inconsistency, and can > either a) make the values consistent, or b) tell the system that the > inconsistency is intentional, in which case the database stores a 'hint' > telling itself not to warn the user about the 'problem' again. > > Of course, the implementation of this is going to be quite complex - for > instance, in UUCP, the 'port' line in the 'sys' file refers to a 'port' > defined in the 'port' file, which refers to a 'dialer' specified in the > 'dial' file - automating the admin of that is hardly changing 1 variable. > (Although it would possibly be made easier if a whole range of 'common' > values for ports are pre-defined in the 'port' file) > > Anyway, the above is mostly random musing towards trying to get a solution > for this problem - I'd appreciate anyone's comments. > > Peter > -- > Peter van Heusden | Computers Networks Reds Greens Justice Peace Beer Africa > pvh@leftside.wcape.school.za | Support the SAMWU 50 litres campaign! > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 12:23:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18265 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:23:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18202 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:23:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02494; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:22:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806231922.VAA02494@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: from Hellmuth Michaelis at "Jun 23, 98 06:45:59 pm" To: hm@kts.org Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:22:13 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Hellmuth Michaelis who wrote: > > And unfortunately my discussion style is not the best. I'm sorry for that. Agreed! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 12:37:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20737 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:37:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA20680 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:36:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA31720 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:35:10 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id TAA01673; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:15:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199806231715.TAA01673@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) In-Reply-To: <199806230204.VAA10715@nospam.hiwaay.net> from David Kelly at "Jun 22, 98 09:04:54 pm" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net (David Kelly) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:15:37 +0200 (CEST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As David Kelly wrote... > "John S. Dyson" writes: > > Dag-Erling Coidan Smxrgrav said: > > > I'm holding my breath until you tell us the name of the project you're > > > working on :) > > > > > The name "G2" was suggested, so that is the codename for now. It > > kind-of means "Generation 2". > > You're not going to call it, "FreeBSD 4.0"? ;-) Or worse: FreeBSD New Technology ;-) Could not resist... Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 12:48:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22618 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:48:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22577 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:48:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA18336 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd018322; Tue Jun 23 19:45:39 1998 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:45:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IFMX (Informix) for Linux (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG BTW IFMX == Informix On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > anyone want to test the linux emulation with this? > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:51:21 -0700 (PDT) > From: Gene Snider > To: julian@whistle.com, ecsd@transbay.net > Subject: IFMX for Linux > > We apparently have a Linux port of our 7.2 engine available for Beta > development, if anyone is interrested. > > We are working out an interface to the Apache server. > > Let me know if you want to get into the Beta program.. > > Gene > > -- > ============================================================================== > Gene Snider > Oakland: 510/628-3939 > Menlo Park: 650/926-6502 > ---- > To live a moral life it is necessary to do more than is required and less > than is permitted. > - Pleiades > ============================================================================== > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 13:04:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24938 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:04:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA24871 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:04:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06769; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:04:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: hm@kts.org cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers) Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:45:59 +0200." Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:04:29 -0700 Message-ID: <6766.898632269@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This understanding was even strengthened by a discussion style of "Mine > is for shure longer than yours. And hey, _i_ am the core member". Well, do also bear in mind that all discussion styles are partially in the eye of the beholder. :-) Email just simply sucks as a communication medium (as useful as it is) since too much vital information is discarded by current limitations in the process (and anyone who thinks that facial expression and tone of voice doesn't constitute vital information has clearly never argued with a mate :-). Someday we'll have all that information available again and unintentional flame wars will be almost unheard of. Man, won't THAT be boring! > How much more politely and more core-team-member behaving would it have been > to just ask: "Hey Hellmuth, don't you think its time to update pcvt and > better integrate into FreeBSD ?". He would have gotten the answer, "shure "Hey, Hellmuth, don't you think it's time to update pcvt and better integrate it into FreeBSD?" :-) Even better, do you have any areas in which you'd like some help? Appealing for help in -hackers doesn't always accomplish anything, I'll be the first to admit, but as our user base grows it does seem that there are also more folks volunteering for such work. It's worth a shot. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 13:11:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26046 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:11:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25965 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:10:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06830; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:10:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Amancio Hasty cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:39:36 PDT." <199806231739.KAA22683@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:10:51 -0700 Message-ID: <6826.898632651@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Any reason why MROUTING is not enabled in the default kernel configuration. Sure. Because for 99% of the userbase, it would only constitute unnecessary bloat. How many here out of the some 10,000 readers of this list are using multicast? 100? 500? You don't need to respond with a yes/no on this (please don't! :), my point simply being that it's a small fraction of the user base and even those who really want to run multicast these days still often find themselves blocked upstream by ISPs who DON'T want to run multicast traffic. :-) I've also never heard any complaints from the remaining 1% that it was difficult to enable or anything. If you're clued-in enough to even know how to get multicast traffic at your site, you probably also know how to compile a kernel. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 13:31:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00201 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:31:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00132 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:31:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23259; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:30:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806232030.NAA23259@rah.star-gate.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Amancio Hasty , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:10:51 PDT." <6826.898632651@time.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <23256.898633855.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:30:55 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Do I have your permission to forward your e-mail to the mbone mailing list? Tnks, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 13:32:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00533 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:32:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00512 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:32:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07009; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:32:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Amancio Hasty cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:30:55 PDT." <199806232030.NAA23259@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:32:40 -0700 Message-ID: <7005.898633960@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG That depends on what you're seeking to achieve. - Jordan > Do I have your permission to forward your e-mail to the mbone mailing > list? > > Tnks, > Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 13:38:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01559 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:38:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01537 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:38:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23308; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:38:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Amancio Hasty Message-Id: <199806232038.NAA23308@rah.star-gate.com> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: option MROUTING Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <7005.898633960@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The question of mbone capable PC Unix systems keeps coming up on the mbone mailing list. Linux is a little bit behind however it is catching to FreeBSD in terms of mbone and audio /video conferencing tools . The first step for wider MBONE deployment is for the PCs whether they run Unix or WinXX is for them to be MBONE capable by clueless users . The server side (mrouted) you are correct in that the users usually have the sufficient expertise however on the client side it is an entirely different matter. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 13:47:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03158 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:47:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03134 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:47:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07085; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:47:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Amancio Hasty cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:38:24 PDT." <199806232038.NAA23308@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:47:49 -0700 Message-ID: <7081.898634869@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I still don't see how an MBONE capable PC, suitably dumbed-down or not, is going to solve the user's basic MBONE connectivity issues (without which the whole point is really rather moot). Can you tell us all here how you intend to grapple with the latter problem, especially given that it's been a critical problem since the very beginning of the MBONE project? Without a clear strategy for getting people *on* the MBONE and making mbone routing something even Joe ISP can (and is willing to) do, I just can't see the client issues as all that pressing. It's kind of like arguing what color the telephone in your mountain cabin should be despite the fact that you're not going to see an actual phone line run all the way up there anytime in the forseeable future. :-) - Jordan > The question of mbone capable PC Unix systems keeps coming up on > the mbone mailing list. Linux is a little bit behind however it > is catching to FreeBSD in terms of mbone and audio /video conferencing > tools . The first step for wider MBONE deployment is for the PCs > whether they run Unix or WinXX is for them to be MBONE capable > by clueless users . The server side (mrouted) you are correct > in that the users usually have the sufficient expertise however > on the client side it is an entirely different matter. > > Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 14:09:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07180 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:09:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07170; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:09:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id VAA24565; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:07:19 GMT Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:07:19 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems and SunOS 4.1.1 In-Reply-To: <199806230354.UAA06135@usr09.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > Do I have to proxy the grotesqueries that are the cookie interface, > instead of spliting the directory lookup, directory entry copyout, > the nameifree() asymmetry, etc.? Then it's about twice the work. I agree that the way the path buf is being freed is bogus. This becomes obvious when you look at vop_abortop implementations for ffs, ext2fs, etc. IMHO, if you freshen up your nameifree() patches without changing goto label names, exit points, whitespace style, and variables names in the FreeBSD source base; then you will have a better chance of getting the code committed. It makes it easier to review the patches and it will also be easier to track enhancements from other BSDs if you do it this way. Also, I think testset was a pretty cool tool for testing these changes. Did you port it to current? I used this as a base for testvn. Check out ~mch on freefall. Regards, Mike Hancock To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 14:11:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07618 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:11:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07601 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA10650; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:40:39 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id GAA08759; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:40:37 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980624064036.I2801@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:40:36 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Sue Blake Cc: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death References: <19980622084201.30984@welearn.com.au> <18709.898473453@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <18709.898473453@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Jun 21, 1998 at 04:57:33PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 June 1998 at 16:57:33 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Just to add to the motivation... I've spoken to a few people lately who >> have several Linux boxes and started converting them to FreeBSD, then >> changed their minds. One complaint is that FreeBSD won't talk VT100 >> in a way the Linux boxes can understand, and vice versa. It's not so > > I'd have to say that they most likely changed their minds for other > reasons and you're just hearing one small side of the story. Anyone > insufficiently motived to find out that there's a vt100 capable > console driver sitting in LINT (which is itself pointed to no less > than 10 times in the handbook and twice in the FAQ) with the following > comment at the top: > > # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver > > Is not someone who's going to last much beyond the next minor hurdle, > whatever that might be. That's a pity. I'd guess that 95% of the non-hackers have never even heard of LINT. Without having their heads stuck into it, I doubt they'd ever check LINT to see if there's an alternate console driver in there. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 14:14:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08075 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:14:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08057 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:13:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA04834; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:13:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA26955; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:13:12 -0600 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:13:12 -0600 Message-Id: <199806232113.PAA26955@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Amancio Hasty , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-Reply-To: <7081.898634869@time.cdrom.com> References: <199806232038.NAA23308@rah.star-gate.com> <7081.898634869@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I still don't see how an MBONE capable PC, suitably dumbed-down or > not, is going to solve the user's basic MBONE connectivity issues ... The MBONE is and will continue to be a 'hacker only' technology that few people can participate with. If you want something for the masses, you need to rethink things and come up with a new solution. > arguing what color the > telephone in your mountain cabin should be despite the fact that > you're not going to see an actual phone line run all the way up there > anytime in the forseeable future. :-) I agree totally. Following the analogy, what's needed is a new technology, not the same technology. If you want phone service in your mountain cabin, you need something completely different like satellite cellular. The existing solution is simply not valid for the masses. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 14:45:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14748 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:45:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14684 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:44:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23518; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:44:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806232144.OAA23518@rah.star-gate.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Amancio Hasty , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:47:49 PDT." <7081.898634869@time.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <23515.898638274.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:44:34 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I can't see any reason why I can not forward your e-mail to the mbone mail list. Given that I don't have your permission , when I get home tonite I will re phrase it and post it to the mbone mailing list. As for the grand question of mbone stability, configuration, etc.. there is an mbone mailing so if you are interested on the topic feel free to ask away in the mbone mailing list. My concern is very narrow , to have FreeBSD MBone capable out of the box. Whole companies and groups are dealing with the issue of mbone deployment Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 14:48:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15470 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:48:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rrz.Hanse.DE (rrz.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15391 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:48:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stb@hanse.de) Received: from daemon.Hanse.DE (daemon.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.17]) by rrz.Hanse.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06211; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:41:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stb@hanse.de) Received: from transit.hanse.de (transit.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.161]) by daemon.Hanse.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13918; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:48:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stb@hanse.de) Received: from localhost (stb@localhost) by transit.hanse.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA13532; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:47:27 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: transit.hanse.de: stb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:47:27 +0200 (CEST) From: Stefan Bethke To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, netatalk@umich.edu Subject: Re: [patch] netatalk broken in 3.0 In-Reply-To: <3585D9A8.15FB7483@whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > The netatalk port for FreeBSD doesn't work on FreeBSD because of an > apparently gratuitous change in the 3.0 kernel. Wrong. > in 3.0 you need to use a correct AF_LINK sockaddr (sockaddr_dl) > for setting a hardware multicast address. In most other systems > including 2.2.x this is a AF_UNSPEC (as used by arp). Right. > this patch patches two files in the etc/atalkd directory of netatalk. I believe this is functional eqivalent to the two patches already present, which I took off of the netatalk patches page. (patches/patch-ad and -ae, taken from http://www.umich.edu/~rsug/netatalk/patches) Both patches have since been verified to solve the problem. I cannot say for sure they do with a recent -current; I'm currently making world, so I will know by the end of the week. I will put your newer patches in the next time I touch the port. > can someone who knows how to fix ports commit it? Sure. Why didn't you ask me as the maintainer in the first place? Cheers, Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Muehlendamm 12 Phone: +49-40-256848, +49-177-3504009 D-22087 Hamburg Hamburg, Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 14:56:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16916 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:56:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA16803 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:55:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 28994 invoked from network); 23 Jun 1998 21:55:33 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 1998 21:55:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:55:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NFS send error 55 for fs: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I switched from a 3.0 box running INN to a 2.2.6 PII box running INN, and I'm getting this message in spades on the 2.2.6 box. Any ideas what to change? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 15:03:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18407 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18397 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:03:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07473; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:03:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Amancio Hasty cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:44:34 PDT." <199806232144.OAA23518@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:03:48 -0700 Message-ID: <7469.898639428@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I didn't deny you "permission" to forward it, I simply asked what your motivation was before explicitly saying "yes" to anything. Forward it as you wish, it's of no great concern to me, though you might also forward my second comment as well which clarifies the lack of MBONE CONNECTIVITY as my biggest beef with the whole concept. Maybe your mbone mailing list folks can start a new blue ribbon campaign to get it into ISPs or something given that you so clearly do not wish to address that question yourself. :-) - Jordan > I can't see any reason why I can not forward your e-mail to the > mbone mail list. Given that I don't have your permission , when > I get home tonite I will re phrase it and post it to the mbone > mailing list. > > As for the grand question of mbone stability, configuration, etc.. > there is an mbone mailing so if you are interested on the topic > feel free to ask away in the mbone mailing list. My concern is > very narrow , to have FreeBSD MBone capable out of the box. Whole > companies and groups are dealing with the issue of mbone deployment > > Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 15:04:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18482 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:04:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18426 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:03:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id RAA06752; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:03:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Amancio Hasty , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-Reply-To: <7081.898634869@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just to backup the MBONE feed statement jordan made about ISP's and network providers, trying to get an MBONE here in kansas, usually results in a 2 hours long phone chase between "network engineers" who have to be told WHAT the MBONE is, then they have to check with their supreme on high 400K dollar a year bosses just to call you back and tell you that yes indeed they do offer ISDN video conferencing. Which of course is not what you originally asked for but it seems that is all they can comprehend. You could slap a nice pretty GUI on all the config tools for mbone on unix you want, but until you find a provider who carries MBONE feeds, let alone even remotely knows what the MBONE is, it isnt going to do you much good. I have tried sprint, mci, and feist here and not one engineer knew the difference between the MBONE and a video conferencing ISDN solution. No matter how many times you explain it etc.. I have given up trying to make use of the MBONE here. Maybe ill just get one of those elite ISDN video conferencing feeds they seem to know so much about :-) Chris -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 15:06:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18853 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:06:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (chris@bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18799 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:06:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA22363 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:02:28 GMT Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:02:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Coleman To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Novell 5 X Windows Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just FYI It appears that Novell 5 uses an X server running fvwm on its Server console. It uses ++ to stop and startx to start it. Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 16:04:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28239 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:04:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA28156 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:04:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id XAA02649; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:30:43 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199806232130.XAA02649@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: option MROUTING To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:30:43 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <7081.898634869@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jun 23, 98 01:47:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I still don't see how an MBONE capable PC, suitably dumbed-down or > not, is going to solve the user's basic MBONE connectivity issues right. In any case, guys, remember that vat & vic will happily run in unicast (or point-to-point) mode so if one wants to chat&see with the old uncle on the other side of the world this can be done without mrouting and stuff. And if someone likes to commit my latest patches to both (PR 6815 and 6816 if i remember well) they will give full duplex support with the pcm driver (for vat) and the x11 grabber (for vic) (the user interface of vic is just terrible btw...) cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 16:57:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07904 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:57:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07888 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:57:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07918; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:57:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:30:43 +0200." <199806232130.XAA02649@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:57:54 -0700 Message-ID: <7914.898646274@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > And if someone likes to commit my latest patches to both (PR 6815 and > 6816 if i remember well) they will give full duplex support with the Hmm. No. :-) If you have more exact PR#'s somewhere, I wouldn't mind giving both a look. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 17:49:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16542 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:49:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16526 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:48:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@shell.futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14544; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:48:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980623194829.05384@futuresouth.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:48:29 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Peter van Heusden Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Peter van Heusden on Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 05:47:00PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 05:47:00PM +0200, Peter van Heusden woke me up to tell me: > Having recently worked on a WWW oriented user interface for FreeBSD, and > looked at some recent work on similar projects, I've been thinking about > the problems of providing an alternative interface to configuring FreeBSD > (alternative to vi, that is). > > Basically, the problem operates on 2 levels - the first, and easiest to > solve, is automating the editing of various configuration files > (/etc/rc.conf, /etc/crontab and others). The second problem is structuring > changes to the configuration in a meaningful way - for instance, if a > modem is connected to the computer on /dev/cuaa1, both PPP and UUCP will > probably want to talk to /dev/cuaa1. I've been looking at doing this sort of thing for a while. I've been planning on a 2-level system: 1) Shell script/perl script/C program/whatever to edit the config files 2) (not my forte) cutesy, perhaps graphical, front-end to the script So, the first step is to write scripts/programs to create/edit the various config files: pppconfig, maybe some nice wrappers around pw, syslogconf, even a profileconf and cshconf, heck, let's complicate things more and make a rc.confconf. Just find every config file that people will need to edit, and write a script/program to do the changes. THEN write a cutesy front-end to the script/program. Perhaps not the absolute most efficient way, but easy to design, easy to use, and easy to peel away the layers you don't want/need. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 18:30:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22487 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:30:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22385 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06590; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:30:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199806240130.SAA06590@kithrup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: block devices to disappear! In-Reply-To: <315.898610601.1.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@critter.freebsd.dk> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <315.898610601.1.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@critter.freebsd.dk> you write: >Unless compelling evidence to the contrary is presented, I will remove >blockdevices as a concept from FreeBSD RSN. > >In the future all devices will be character devices, and mounts will >happen using these as well. Wow, I am sitting here, remembering arguments by certain freebsd core members a couple of years ago about how linux' lack of block devices was a defficiency. Tell me, how am I supposed to do direct, un-cached accesses? How about all the auxillary programs, some of which are in ports, which expect to be able to use block devices -- and do stats to check on it? This is another not-so-good idea. Better than the last one, really, but still not a very good idea. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 18:42:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24652 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:42:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24604 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:42:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA20542; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:41:53 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id DAA20640; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:41:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980624034151.12579@follo.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:41:51 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: dyson@iquest.net, David Kelly Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) References: <199806230204.VAA10715@nospam.hiwaay.net> <199806231756.MAA19966@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199806231756.MAA19966@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 12:56:14PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 12:56:14PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > David Kelly said: > > "John S. Dyson" writes: > > > Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav said: > > > > I'm holding my breath until you tell us the name of the project you're > > > > working on :) > > > > > > > The name "G2" was suggested, so that is the codename for now. It > > > kind-of means "Generation 2". > > > > You're not going to call it, "FreeBSD 4.0"? ;-) > > > No, and in fact, BSD apparently won't be in the name at all. There > are both legal and technical reasons why it won't be there. There > will be code of BSD heritage in the kernel, and some code with BSD > heritage in userland. It won't have the (non-threaded) structure > of a BSD kernel, but likely will have many of the same pieces, in > one form or another. > > Note that I am not in the "naming", "infrastructure" or "interface > with other organizations or groups" department on the project. :-). However, I seem to be, so I'll present a picture of that side of it: John says categorically "no" to it being called FreeBSD 4.0. This isn't something I'd do - this is an open option, but one which I don't consider too likely. The FreeBSD project will have the option of adopting the technology (it's free software, and we'll certainly be willing to help), and whether this will happen or not will be up to the FreeBSD corpus at that time. It is not something that can be meaningfully evaluated right now - we know we want to cover some areas FreeBSD doesn't cover, and whether that can be done without trading off in other areas won't be 100% clear until we have working code showing it. Presently, we're just working on design and testing prototypes in various areas. Things are starting to shape up a bit - not quite _everything_ is in flux anymore (but most things still are :-) We'll be sourcing technology from all available places (limited by license, quality and fitness to our purposes only). As time passes, we hope to also form more formal ties with other Open Source projects (with *BSD foremost of these). We hope to make this project something positive as seen from all points, not "just another competitor". Also, working on G2 does not mean that we're abandoning the other projects we're part of - I for one will keep working on FreeBSD. I'll probably cut a bit on the mailing list activity, but I won't be gone. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 18:56:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27079 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:56:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orkan.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27066 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by orkan.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA23252 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:57:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:57:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: block devices to disappear! In-Reply-To: <199806240130.SAA06590@kithrup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > In article <315.898610601.1.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@critter.freebsd.dk> you write: > >Unless compelling evidence to the contrary is presented, I will remove > >blockdevices as a concept from FreeBSD RSN. > > > >In the future all devices will be character devices, and mounts will > >happen using these as well. > > Wow, I am sitting here, remembering arguments by certain freebsd core members > a couple of years ago about how linux' lack of block devices was a > defficiency. > > Tell me, how am I supposed to do direct, un-cached accesses? > > How about all the auxillary programs, some of which are in ports, which expect > to be able to use block devices -- and do stats to check on it? > > This is another not-so-good idea. Better than the last one, really, but still > not a very good idea. Whoa, I'm confused now. Sean, you appear to be saying that by removing block devices from FreeBSD, it is no longer possible to do direct, un-cached (i.e. raw) accesses. How is this the case? My understanding is that un-cached accesses are done through character devices, which is what we're keeping, rather than chucking. If I'm paraphrasing correctly, and what you say is true, then I strongly disagree with removing the block devices, though it seems unlikely that I'm understanding this correctly. Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 18:57:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27198 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:57:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27175 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:57:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA20864 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:57:18 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id DAA20724; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:57:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980624035717.61713@follo.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:57:17 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: block devices to disappear! References: <315.898610601.1.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@critter.freebsd.dk> <199806240130.SAA06590@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199806240130.SAA06590@kithrup.com>; from Sean Eric Fagan on Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 06:30:14PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 06:30:14PM -0700, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > In article > <315.898610601.1.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@critter.freebsd.dk> you > write: > >Unless compelling evidence to the contrary is presented, I will remove > >blockdevices as a concept from FreeBSD RSN. > > > >In the future all devices will be character devices, and mounts will > >happen using these as well. > > > Wow, I am sitting here, remembering arguments by certain freebsd > core members a couple of years ago about how linux' lack of block > devices was a defficiency. That was, AFAIK, about the lack of _raw_ devices. > Tell me, how am I supposed to do direct, un-cached accesses? Use the raw device. > How about all the auxillary programs, some of which are in ports, > which expect to be able to use block devices -- and do stats to > check on it? Which are these? I can't see any reason to retain the block devices - AFAIK, they are only used to mount filesystems on, and if that can be done in other ways, we're all set. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 20:18:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09975 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:18:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09964 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:18:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24526; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:18:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806240318.UAA24526@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:03:48 PDT." <7469.898639428@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:18:26 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You are right I don't want to get into it . I wish I was white so you guys can see me turn into not just red but the full color spectrum when I talk to some of the ISPs about mbone connectivity 8) Relax, I have good intentions . Cheers, Amancio > I didn't deny you "permission" to forward it, I simply asked what your > motivation was before explicitly saying "yes" to anything. > > Forward it as you wish, it's of no great concern to me, though you > might also forward my second comment as well which clarifies the lack > of MBONE CONNECTIVITY as my biggest beef with the whole concept. > Maybe your mbone mailing list folks can start a new blue ribbon > campaign to get it into ISPs or something given that you so clearly do > not wish to address that question yourself. :-) > > - Jordan > > > I can't see any reason why I can not forward your e-mail to the > > mbone mail list. Given that I don't have your permission , when > > I get home tonite I will re phrase it and post it to the mbone > > mailing list. > > > > As for the grand question of mbone stability, configuration, etc.. > > there is an mbone mailing so if you are interested on the topic > > feel free to ask away in the mbone mailing list. My concern is > > very narrow , to have FreeBSD MBone capable out of the box. Whole > > companies and groups are dealing with the issue of mbone deployment > > > > Amancio > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 21:16:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20695 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20662 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-168.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.168]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA13408; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:15:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13511; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:59:32 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199806240359.WAA13511@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dyson@iquest.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) In-reply-to: Message from "John S. Dyson" of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:56:14 CDT." <199806231756.MAA19966@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:59:32 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id VAA20667 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "John S. Dyson" writes: > David Kelly said: > > You're not going to call it, "FreeBSD 4.0"? ;-) > > > No, and in fact, BSD apparently won't be in the name at all. There > are both legal and technical reasons why it won't be there. There > will be code of BSD heritage in the kernel, and some code with BSD > heritage in userland. It won't have the (non-threaded) structure > of a BSD kernel, but likely will have many of the same pieces, in > one form or another. None the less, it sounds like good stuff for FreeBSD to borrow from for FreeBSD 4.0, not that I have any say in the matter. Now if only those with talent would *quit* working on kernels and come up with a replacement for X... -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 21:32:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22826 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:32:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22820 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:32:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23173; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:32:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:32:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199806240432.VAA23173@kithrup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: block devices to disappear! In-Reply-To: References: <199806240130.SAA06590@kithrup.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: >Whoa, I'm confused now. Sean, you appear to be saying that by removing >block devices from FreeBSD, it is no longer possible to do direct, >un-cached (i.e. raw) accesses. Actually, I should have followed up myself - a big question is: will all of the benefits of block devices still be present? If so, fine. If not, this should be more carefully thought out. I admit that the benefits are fairly small -- but there are some advantages of block devices over character devices. Ideally, really, with DEVFS, there are only special files, not "block special" or "character special" files. (Better people than I have debated the merits of having them at all, far more completely than I am willing or able to, so I won't bother ;).) I am not automatically opposed to this change... but I do question its worth. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 21:41:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23995 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:41:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23957 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:41:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA20538; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:40:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806240440.AAA20538@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Amancio Hasty cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: option MROUTING References: <199806232038.NAA23308@rah.star-gate.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:38:24 PDT." <199806232038.NAA23308@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:40:51 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The question of mbone capable PC Unix systems keeps coming up on > the mbone mailing list. Linux is a little bit behind however it > is catching to FreeBSD in terms of mbone and audio /video conferencing > tools . The first step for wider MBONE deployment is for the PCs > whether they run Unix or WinXX is for them to be MBONE capable > by clueless users . The server side (mrouted) you are correct > in that the users usually have the sufficient expertise however > on the client side it is an entirely different matter. I think it's important to distinguish between multicast-capable end-system hosts (which FreeBSD pretty much is, out of the box), and systems that operate as multicast routers. The trend more and more is to have the multicast forwarding function reside in routers, with hosts behaving as end-systems only, rather than terminating tunnels. Sure, there's a bunch of people that still terminate DVMRP tunnels in mrouted, but this is becoming less common rather than more. >From my experience, more "MBONE" connections are done with Cisco routers rather than using the (non-scalable) DVMRP/mrouted solution. So, yeah, I think that MROUTING off by default is probably the right answer for more people these days. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 21:43:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24282 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:43:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24195 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:42:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21295; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:42:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806240442.XAA21295@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Here is what I promised :-) In-Reply-To: <199806240359.WAA13511@nospam.hiwaay.net> from David Kelly at "Jun 23, 98 10:59:32 pm" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net (David Kelly) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:42:29 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Kelly said: > "John S. Dyson" writes: > > David Kelly said: > > > You're not going to call it, "FreeBSD 4.0"? ;-) > > > > > No, and in fact, BSD apparently won't be in the name at all. There > > are both legal and technical reasons why it won't be there. There > > will be code of BSD heritage in the kernel, and some code with BSD > > heritage in userland. It won't have the (non-threaded) structure > > of a BSD kernel, but likely will have many of the same pieces, in > > one form or another. > > None the less, it sounds like good stuff for FreeBSD to borrow from for > FreeBSD 4.0, not that I have any say in the matter. > That just might happen :-). > > Now if only those with talent would *quit* working on kernels and come > up with a replacement for X... > There is sort-of a project like that called GGI, that itself supports X on top of it. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 21:49:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25199 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:49:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25143 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:48:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08922; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:48:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Matthew D. Fuller" cc: Peter van Heusden , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:48:29 CDT." <19980623194829.05384@futuresouth.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:48:44 -0700 Message-ID: <8919.898663724@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > So, the first step is to write scripts/programs to create/edit the > various config files: pppconfig, maybe some nice wrappers around pw, > syslogconf, even a profileconf and cshconf, heck, let's complicate things > more and make a rc.confconf. Just find every config file that people Eeek. I think this might have been a transitional approach of value some 4-5 years ago, but nowadays we have namespace pollution and the fact that front-ending things in this fashion is something which proved its limitations and went out of fashion almost a decade ago. If we're going to do something now, let's stick with 90's techniques at least. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 21:53:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25948 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:53:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25924 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:53:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08952; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:53:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Greg Lehey cc: Sue Blake , Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:40:36 +0930." <19980624064036.I2801@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:53:20 -0700 Message-ID: <8949.898664000@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > That's a pity. I'd guess that 95% of the non-hackers have never even > heard of LINT. Without having their heads stuck into it, I doubt Most non-hackers have no idea what a vt100 terminal is either, or why they'd even want to use one in this GUI-infested day and age. No problem, I guess. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 21:55:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26328 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:55:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA26290 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:55:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA11915; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:25:14 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id OAA09575; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:25:12 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980624142512.C5023@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:25:12 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Sue Blake , Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) References: <19980624064036.I2801@freebie.lemis.com> <8949.898664000@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <8949.898664000@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 09:53:20PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 June 1998 at 21:53:20 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> That's a pity. I'd guess that 95% of the non-hackers have never even >> heard of LINT. Without having their heads stuck into it, I doubt > > Most non-hackers have no idea what a vt100 terminal is either, or why > they'd even want to use one in this GUI-infested day and age. No > problem, I guess. :) Well, one reason might be that most Microslop "telnet" abominations claim (without good reason) to emulate a VT100. Aside: Does anybody know one that works? Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 22:29:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02509 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:29:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA02491 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00516; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:29:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806240529.WAA00516@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Louis A. Mamakos" cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:40:51 EDT." <199806240440.AAA20538@whizzo.transsys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:29:34 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > So, yeah, I think that MROUTING off by default is probably the > right answer for more people these days. > You are correct. The last time I requested a tunnel I got turned down because my ISP did not support native ip multicast routing. Currently, I am looking for an ISP which provides both ADSL and mbone connectivity. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 22:38:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04205 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:38:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04142 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:38:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10382 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd010368; Wed Jun 24 05:37:49 1998 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:37:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: block devices to disappear! In-Reply-To: <199806240432.VAA23173@kithrup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Part of tthe reason is just SIMPLICITY. having two differnt sets of things that are a LITTLE different, all over the place is pain and I have been planning this for a LONG time. It seems that poul has decided to just go-ahead with it rather than my "softly-softly" approach. but I'm not going to complain.. If you look in DEVFS there are THREE types of devices. BDEV, CDEV and DDEV my plan has always been.... BDEV and CDEV are present devices feeding through a [bc]devsw entry. DDEV is where devices should end up.. A DDEV device would supply a set of VFSOPS which would be associeated with their vnodes directly, short circuiting the whole devsw entries. The idea was that I would migrate everything to CDEVS with SLICE supplying compatibility devices (also CDEVS) that act like BDEVS (they would only be disks or similar) The kernel would then be cleaned of dev_t and the cdevsw[] table removed, with each device's devfs node holding a direct pointer to it's devsw entry, (so that the table isn't needed). major numbers would then be totally meaningless. The way to identify a device would be to reference its vnode (with a reference count too). Once everything was CDEVS and the kernel was cleansed of dev_t then the drivers could be switched one by one to supply a set of vnops instead of devsw entries. As each driver was completed it's nodes would be switched to be DDEV rather than CDEV. When all CDEVS were gone, we are done. don't know how others (e.g. Poul-henning) think about that, but it's where I've been heading. julian On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > In article you write: > >Whoa, I'm confused now. Sean, you appear to be saying that by removing > >block devices from FreeBSD, it is no longer possible to do direct, > >un-cached (i.e. raw) accesses. > > Actually, I should have followed up myself - a big question is: will all of > the benefits of block devices still be present? If so, fine. > > If not, this should be more carefully thought out. I admit that the benefits > are fairly small -- but there are some advantages of block devices over > character devices. > > Ideally, really, with DEVFS, there are only special files, not "block special" > or "character special" files. (Better people than I have debated the merits > of having them at all, far more completely than I am willing or able to, so I > won't bother ;).) > > I am not automatically opposed to this change... but I do question its worth. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 23:12:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10199 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:12:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA10095 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:11:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id GAA03140; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:38:43 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199806240438.GAA03140@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: option MROUTING To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:38:42 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <7914.898646274@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jun 23, 98 04:57:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > And if someone likes to commit my latest patches to both (PR 6815 and > > 6816 if i remember well) they will give full duplex support with the > > Hmm. No. :-) > > If you have more exact PR#'s somewhere, I wouldn't mind giving both > a look. Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description o [1998/05/31] ports/6813 fenner patched audio module for vat port o [1998/05/31] ports/6814 fenner vic patches for x11 grabber 2 problems total. cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 23:18:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11403 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:18:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11300 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:18:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pantzer@speedy.ludd.luth.se) Received: from speedy.ludd.luth.se (speedy.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.164]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26545; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:17:47 +0200 Message-Id: <199806240617.IAA26545@zed.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Amancio Hasty Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:38:24 PDT." <199806232038.NAA23308@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:17:47 +0200 From: Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The question of mbone capable PC Unix systems keeps coming up on > the mbone mailing list. Linux is a little bit behind however it > is catching to FreeBSD in terms of mbone and audio /video conferencing > tools . The first step for wider MBONE deployment is for the PCs > whether they run Unix or WinXX is for them to be MBONE capable > by clueless users . The server side (mrouted) you are correct > in that the users usually have the sufficient expertise however > on the client side it is an entirely different matter. My computer does multicast (on the mbone) and I do not have MROUTING in my kernel. Client systems do not need MROUTING, only multicast routers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 23:46:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16991 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:46:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (root@[208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16955 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:46:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-52.camalott.com [208.229.74.52] (may be forged)) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA20427; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:44:48 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA01400; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:45:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:45:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806240645.BAA01400@detlev.UUCP> To: grog@lemis.com CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, sue@welearn.com.au, pechter@shell.monmouth.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19980624142512.C5023@freebie.lemis.com> (message from Greg Lehey on Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:25:12 +0930) Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <19980624064036.I2801@freebie.lemis.com> <8949.898664000@time.cdrom.com> <19980624142512.C5023@freebie.lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>> That's a pity. I'd guess that 95% of the non-hackers have never even >>> heard of LINT. Without having their heads stuck into it, I doubt >> Most non-hackers have no idea what a vt100 terminal is either, or why >> they'd even want to use one in this GUI-infested day and age. No >> problem, I guess. :) > Well, one reason might be that most Microslop "telnet" abominations > claim (without good reason) to emulate a VT100. > Aside: Does anybody know one that works? You mean a VT100 telnet client for Windows that works? I'll list a few in a second, but first I'll point out what I learned to handle field circus calls. I've found that if you take a few steps, the client that comes with 95 can be marginally usable on most Unixes-- at least, it handles emacs, nethack, and screen ok. (1) Don't resize or move the window, or access the menus, unless you don't expect to be receiving data during the operation. The temptation is great to resize to full screen during the MOTD, but if data arrives while you're fiddling with this, then the telnet client will be put in a bad state. (It looks like a ring queue gets out of sync, but I could be wrong.) (2) Upon first logging in, type 'export TERM=vt100 ; stty rows 25' or your shell's equivalent. (On some machines, notably HP/UX systems, the stty will fail. On these machines, use 'export TERM=vt100 LINES=25' instead.) (3) Resize the window to maximum size. Just grab a corner and bring it out until it don't go anymore. (On 640x480 resolutions, this may involve moving the window to the top of the screen first.) I'll occasionally think I have messed up a session, when all I had to do was scroll down. Now I just keep everything onscreen. Some other concessions may have to be made for transmitted keys, but the basic functionality is there. (Emacs users: I recommend adding (global-set-key [?\C-c ?m] 'set-mark-command) to your .emacs if your client won't send C-@. This allows C-c m to set the mark.) Now, you also wanted a usable client. I have used CRT, from Van Dyke Software (http://www.vandyke.com/). They have a very good rlogin/telnet client, including separate settings for different sessions, full VT-series emulation (with configurable color options), and-- I just plain like this, for some reason-- it can use any Windows fonts, or its internal VT100 fonts. The web site has a 30-day demo version availible, and the registration fee is light. There are more options availible, including some no-charge implementations, on Tucows (http://www.tucows.com/) and WinFiles (http://www.winfiles.com/). I am not aware of any that come with source code, although I wouldn't be suprised to see it. (I've been meaning to write a pure console-mode telnet with VT100 support, but haven't gotten around to it yet. The only similar item I saw had one minor bug in its newline handling that prevents redirection, which I need.) If you really want to go all-out, maybe you should use X. Implementations for both 95 and NT availible. There are a couple of good no-charge ones, many commercial ones (some with demos, typically 30 minute or single machine). I haven't seen any with source code. Pointers availible. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 23 23:52:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17936 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:52:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17858 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:52:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id HAA11296; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:51:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from localhost by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:45:21 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:45:21 +0100 (BST) From: Bob Bishop X-Sender: rb@seagoon To: Greg Lehey cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) In-Reply-To: <19980624142512.C5023@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > Aside: Does anybody know one that works? Kermit, IIRC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 00:06:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20001 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:06:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (jonny@roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19966 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:05:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23043; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:04:43 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199806240704.EAA23043@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration In-Reply-To: <8919.898663724@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jun 23, 98 09:48:44 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:04:43 -0300 (EST) Cc: fullermd@futuresouth.com, pvh@leftside.wcape.school.za, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Jordan K. Hubbard) // > So, the first step is to write scripts/programs to create/edit the // > various config files: pppconfig, maybe some nice wrappers around pw, // > syslogconf, even a profileconf and cshconf, heck, let's complicate things // > more and make a rc.confconf. Just find every config file that people // // Eeek. I think this might have been a transitional approach of value // some 4-5 years ago, but nowadays we have namespace pollution and the // fact that front-ending things in this fashion is something which // proved its limitations and went out of fashion almost a decade ago. This stinks to IBM's smit. :) // If we're going to do something now, let's stick with 90's techniques // at least. :-) Could you please elaborate on this ? My preferred technique for system configuration is vi. Are there any others ? :))) Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 00:18:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21879 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:18:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coleridge.kublai.com (coleridge.kublai.com [207.96.1.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21836 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:18:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.kublai.com) Received: from natasya.kublai.com (natasya.kublai.com [207.172.25.236]) by coleridge.kublai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA29193 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:18:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.kublai.com) Received: (from shmit@localhost) by natasya.kublai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA23612; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19980624031814.19037@kublai.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:18:14 -0400 From: Brian Cully To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Weirdness with pthreads in -current Reply-To: shmit@kublai.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i X-Sender: If your mailer pays attention to this, it's broken. X-PGP-Info: finger shmit@kublai.com for my public key. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been working on set of Objective C threads framework around pthreads and have come up against something a bit strange. If I call pthread_join(3) on a thread that's called sleep(3), pthread_join returns a value of `3', but errno isn't touched. If I remove the call to sleep inside of the thread, pthread_join works just fine. Pthread_join, BTW, does wait for the thread to die in both conditions, so it does its job correctly, but just returns some kind of bogus value when sleep is called. I suspect this may be for all sorts of signal conditions, but this is the one I ran into. This is -current from 28-May-1998, BTW. -- Brian Cully ``And when one of our comrades was taken prisoner, blindfolded, hung upside-down, shot, and burned, we thought to ourselves, `These are the best experiences of our lives''' -Pathology (Joe Frank, Somewhere Out There) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 00:20:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22323 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:20:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22257 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:20:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA12234 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:50:19 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA09756; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:50:18 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980624165018.H5023@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:50:18 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: FreeBSD faster than light? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can anybody explain why I'm using up a total of about 1.5 seconds of CPU time in the following examples? This is a single CPU machine (AMD K6/233) running -CURRENT as of the end of last month. The figures seem surprisingly consistent. === grog@freebie (/dev/ttyp1) ~ 9 -> time l -rt Mail|wc 3460 31133 192864 real 0m0.517s user 0m1.230s sys 0m0.270s === grog@freebie (/dev/ttyp1) ~ 10 -> time l -rt Mail|wc 3460 31133 192864 real 0m0.517s user 0m1.227s sys 0m0.273s === grog@freebie (/dev/ttyp1) ~ 11 -> time l -rt Mail|wc 3460 31133 192864 real 0m0.865s user 0m1.226s sys 0m0.296s === grog@freebie (/dev/ttyp1) ~ 12 -> time l -rt Mail|wc 3460 31133 192864 real 0m0.535s user 0m1.233s sys 0m0.278s === grog@freebie (/dev/ttyp1) ~ 13 -> Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 00:21:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22506 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:21:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22458 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:21:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10371; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:21:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis cc: fullermd@futuresouth.com, pvh@leftside.wcape.school.za, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:04:43 -0300." <199806240704.EAA23043@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:21:22 -0700 Message-ID: <10367.898672882@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Could you please elaborate on this ? My preferred technique for > system configuration is vi. Are there any others ? :))) I'll assume you were being only partially facetious and actually answer the question. :-) A modern 90's-kinda-approach would be something like this: [GUI tool from hell] [generic namespace layer] [transform layer] .. traditional ascii files .. The GUI tool puts up nice UI screens that allow the user to specify details like hostname and nameserver(s) and then turns to the generic namespace layer and says things like "host.name = foo.bar.baz" and "host.dns = dns1.foo.org dns2.foo.org dns3.local.net", something which your pluggable transform layer is responsible for associating with actual fields in whichever traditional config files contain this information. When a value is queried in the namespace layer, the transformation routines ensure that it's is read out of the corresponding file(s) properly and passed up the chain. When a value is set, it gets written back out*. This is essentially the approach (more or less) taken by Mike Smith with his "Juliet" package, though the basic concept has been used in other systems of this nature. It's sort of the obvious place to put the abstraction layer if you want to be able to create other custom file front-ends easily later. Say you wanted to add ppp.conf to the list of things that could be "transformed" into the generic namespace layer at a later date - you'd want it to be a fairly straight-forward process in order to encourage people to actually do that sort of thing. - Jordan * Actually, to be more accurate, the transform layer probably wouldn't actually write stuff out on a set operation but rather upon some other "write out all ``dirty'' variables now" action which you could do at some checkpoint or from an explicit commit button in the UI. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 01:12:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA02966 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:12:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA02872 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29525; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:11:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd029511; Wed Jun 24 01:11:29 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA21542; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:11:25 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806240811.BAA21542@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: option MROUTING To: opsys@mail.webspan.net (Open Systems Networking) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:11:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Open Systems Networking" at Jun 23, 98 06:03:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You could slap a nice pretty GUI on all the config tools for mbone on unix > you want, but until you find a provider who carries MBONE feeds, let alone > even remotely knows what the MBONE is, it isnt going to do you much good. I think Amancio's point, which should be well taken, is analogous to the enabling of RFC1323 and RFC1644 by default in FreeBSD in support of T/TCP, etc.. The counter-argument at the time might have easily been "...but until you find a provider whose terminal server doesn't blow TCP option negotiation...". Instead, the options were enabled by default, and the majority of the Internet is better for it: the terminal servers were modified to meet the challenge. There is a big difference betwwen "Operation not supported" and "Sorry, but your ISP doesn't appear to support MBONE; refer your ISP to the following RFC's: ...". > I have tried sprint, mci, and feist here and not one engineer knew the > difference between the MBONE and a video conferencing ISDN solution. You didn't try very hard at Sprint: Vadim Antonov works there as a network engineer. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 01:13:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03327 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:13:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03289 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:13:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29924; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:13:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd029894; Wed Jun 24 01:13:21 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA21614; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:13:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806240813.BAA21614@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NFS send error 55 for fs: To: mrcpu@internetcds.com (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:13:18 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Jun 23, 98 02:55:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I switched from a 3.0 box running INN to a 2.2.6 PII box running INN, > and I'm getting this message in spades on the 2.2.6 box. > > Any ideas what to change? #define ENOBUFS 55 /* No buffer space available */ Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 01:24:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA05445 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:24:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA05408 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:23:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@shell.futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28859; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:23:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980624032341.11634@futuresouth.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:23:41 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Peter van Heusden , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration References: <19980623194829.05384@futuresouth.com> <8919.898663724@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <8919.898663724@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 09:48:44PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 09:48:44PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard woke me up to tell me: > > So, the first step is to write scripts/programs to create/edit the > > various config files: pppconfig, maybe some nice wrappers around pw, > > syslogconf, even a profileconf and cshconf, heck, let's complicate things > > more and make a rc.confconf. Just find every config file that people > > Eeek. I think this might have been a transitional approach of value > some 4-5 years ago, but nowadays we have namespace pollution and the > fact that front-ending things in this fashion is something which > proved its limitations and went out of fashion almost a decade ago. > If we're going to do something now, let's stick with 90's techniques > at least. :-) Well, if namespace pollution is the problem, then write the scripts as an addon package, and when we integrate them, just put them together into one big program: # sysconfig -t {ppp|uucp|network|syslog|etc} --other_options I like the 3 layer approach, because it caters to 3 groups of people: 1) config file: know what you're doing, just want to do it 2) script: know what you're doing, don't know the format 3) cutesy: don't [yet] know what you're doing. The hope is thus that you still have files to edit directly if you like doing things that way (me! me!), you have a nice frontend if you're not sure what you're doing, and you have a script in the middle. It's easy to tell someone a command line to a script to solve a problem; it's a lot harder to guide them through a GUI or to tell them what to edit in the config file. This approach has just been waiting for a quiet, rainy night. Are you saying you wouldn't use it if I wrote it? ;) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 01:30:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA06796 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:30:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA06728 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 19392 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1998 08:30:19 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1998 08:30:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:30:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS send error 55 for fs: In-Reply-To: <199806240813.BAA21614@usr08.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK, but which buffer is it out of? MAXUSERS is set to 128. Is this an NMBCLUSTERS fix thingie? MSIZE? NBUF? On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I switched from a 3.0 box running INN to a 2.2.6 PII box running INN, > > and I'm getting this message in spades on the 2.2.6 box. > > > > Any ideas what to change? > > #define ENOBUFS 55 /* No buffer space available */ > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 01:45:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA09474 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:45:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA09419 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:44:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA08454 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:44:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd008438; Wed Jun 24 01:44:38 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA22345 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:44:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806240844.BAA22345@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Heads up: block devices to disappear! To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:44:37 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199806240432.VAA23173@kithrup.com> from "Sean Eric Fagan" at Jun 23, 98 09:32:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Actually, I should have followed up myself - a big question is: will all of > the benefits of block devices still be present? If so, fine. > > If not, this should be more carefully thought out. I admit that the benefits > are fairly small -- but there are some advantages of block devices over > character devices. I agree. Like Sean, I am unconvinced of the utility of removing the block devices, even though I am aware of the code simplifications that would result. I would be *much* more prone to saying "remove the *character* devices", since the character devices uncached behaviour can be achieved with two compares and a bypass in kernel space ("is the read/write block aligned, is the size to be read/written a multiple of the block size"). Specifically, here is Julian's whiteboard drawing: b c | | v | ------------ --- | block device VN | ------------ --- | ----------------- | buffer cache | ----------------- v ----------------------- character device ----------------------- ----------------------- Device driver ----------------------- ----------------------- Hardware ----------------------- My main objection is non-seekable devices. Specifically, there is a reliance on a linear buffer cache for things like DAT and floppy tape drives. Well, there is, unless someone has ripped it out of the driver. The nned for the user space kludge in the floppy tape case come from the fact that there is not a two buffer block buffer so that the tape drive could be kept actively re-writing a block until it was fed more data. I also think there are issues to be considered for a vnconfig'ed device that is supposedly emulating an atomic block size larger than the physical block size (the vn device doesn't do this correctly right now for CDROM images, which are my particular worry). There are potentially some historical tape compatability issues; specifically, it is wrong to assume that some tapes, QIC-11 and QIC-24 tapes written on SCO and similar machines using Archive/Computone based controller drivers, and a number of NCR tape controller drivers acting directly, will actually write out a full block at the end of the tape. There is a need to be able to read partial blocks, and, in some cases, to write partial blocks for nominally blocked media. I had no end of trouble, a while back, attempting to read tapes written on a Sun4 machine on an NCR machine (ie: this is not a historical strawman). The NCR machine was incapable of dealing with partial blocks. I would hate to see FreeBSD gain the same problem: not all tapes can be rewritten using "dd conv=osync" to for full blocks. If the tapes already exist, you could be screwed. There are a number of performance issues with the MSDOSFS, especially in the block boundry spanning case: --------- 1K --------- --------------------- --------------------- 4K 4K --------------------- --------------------- That are dealt with in the MACK MSDOSFS implementation by use of the buffer cache and partially populated pages, with knowledge of the underlying physical block size. This impies the use of cached data for speed in the read-before-write case (see the CMU MSDOSFS paper for details, or merely benchmark FreeBSD on MSDOSFS vs Linux on MSDOSFS; be sure to adjust the sync/async paramters accordingly, so you can not claim an unfair test. I also think that requring devices to be written in block size increments by user space programs is a mistake -- specifically, database programs that tend to take over raw partitions may depend on non-block aligned I/O and fragment gathering... *particulary* for the sections of the disk being utilized for transaction logging. If the features of the block devices are not lost, *specifically*: o the ability for it to automatically gather short writes o the ability to utilize the buffer cache to reduce the size of read-before-write read increments o the ability to double-buffer non-seekable devices, transparently, in the kernel, without the use of a user space "helper" program like "ft" o any other feature of block devices that anyone else can think up that I couldn't then I would not object; but again, like Sean, I don't feel that this has been demonstrated. Simpler is not necessarily better, unless you want to be a teaching tool and potentially little else. Soft Updates is an example of a situation where additional complexity provides an undeniable "win" that could be had in no other fashion. Let's meake sure that the block device interface is not in the same category before summarily executing it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 01:57:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11527 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11517 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:56:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21637; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:56:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd021585; Wed Jun 24 01:56:43 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA23011; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:56:32 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806240856.BAA23011@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:56:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, sue@welearn.com.au, pechter@shell.monmouth.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980624142512.C5023@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Jun 24, 98 02:25:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, one reason might be that most Microslop "telnet" abominations > claim (without good reason) to emulate a VT100. > > Aside: Does anybody know one that works? "TERM" and "TinyTERM", from Century Software. I don't know if my name is still exposed in them anywhere (it's been 7 years since I worked on them). Last I heard, Wes Peters had even done a FreeBSD port, but they are probably not selling it commercially. PS: This was the first UNIX application software to: o treat UNIX as other than a second class citizen o ship as shrink wrapped packages o ship with a "DOS binder-style manual" (written by myself and Tim O'Reilly, among others) o support emulating terminals on UNIX boxes (VT100 on a Wyse-50, anyone?) o support Minitel emulation o run on any UNIX box a customer asked for (~140 of them) Etc. A lot of firsts. Contact Wes on the advocacy lists, or contact Century (censoft.com?) directly. PPS: Yes, I am proud of this particular baby... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 02:07:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA13163 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:07:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from algirdas.is.lt (algirdas.is.lt [193.219.14.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA13104 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:07:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cornolio@is.lt) Received: from noname (aly-dl2.is.lt [195.182.88.17]) by algirdas.is.lt (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA48384 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:06:51 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980624110454.0079db70@smtp-gw.is.lt> X-Sender: i1261b@smtp-gw.is.lt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:04:54 +0200 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: HenrisK In-Reply-To: <199806231205.FAA29980@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG unsubscribe freebsd-hackers HenrisK. cornolio@is.lt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 02:15:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA14430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:15:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA14366 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:15:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26297; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd026275; Wed Jun 24 02:15:09 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA23568; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:15:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806240915.CAA23568@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NFS send error 55 for fs: To: mrcpu@internetcds.com (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:15:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Jun 24, 98 01:30:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > OK, but which buffer is it out of? MAXUSERS is set to 128. Is this > an NMBCLUSTERS fix thingie? MSIZE? NBUF? NMBCLUSTERS. I'm betting this is a server death, resulting in all local buffers being used up. If you have a ppp connection, you can do the same thing by turning off your modem, and starting a "ping" to bring the link up. Pretty quick way to screw your system. You should look at the underlying problem, which is probably hardware. Are you using a 10/100 card, supposedly in 100 mode, supposedly it's being autodetected? A number of cards have problems with this; Doug Ambrisko would be able to fill you in... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 02:25:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA15842 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:25:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA15724 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:23:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28390; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd028324; Wed Jun 24 02:23:42 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA23660; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:23:36 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806240923.CAA23660@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) To: joelh@gnu.org Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:23:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, sue@welearn.com.au, pechter@shell.monmouth.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806240645.BAA01400@detlev.UUCP> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Jun 24, 98 01:45:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > (1) Don't resize or move the window, or access the menus, unless you > don't expect to be receiving data during the operation. The > temptation is great to resize to full screen during the MOTD, but if > data arrives while you're fiddling with this, then the telnet client > will be put in a bad state. (It looks like a ring queue gets out of > sync, but I could be wrong.) Actually, the events are lost. This is similar to the X phenomenon where you use "XNextEvent", it queues up some events, and you are using your own main loop to call select. There is no data waiting input, but there *are* events that are waiting to be processed. The easiest way to get a "full screen" is to make a shortcut icon, and then select "start maximized" on the "Properties..." panel. > (2) Upon first logging in, type 'export TERM=vt100 ; stty rows 25' or > your shell's equivalent. (On some machines, notably HP/UX systems, > the stty will fail. On these machines, use 'export TERM=vt100 > LINES=25' instead.) You can use the X "resize" command, IFF you set your terminal type to "xterm" in FreeBSD, even though the terminal emulation type you have selected is (nominally) a VT100. Oh yeah: DON'T make it more than 43 lines long. If you do, you will get screen buffer corruption. > If you really want to go all-out, maybe you should use X. > Implementations for both 95 and NT availible. The VNC code apparently works well, both to NT and 95, and *from* them (for displaying NT or Win95 sessions on an X server). They are missing specific code on the Windows NT/95 "server" (not in the X sense, in the telnetd sense) to follow window focus, which would be a big win when going that direction, but X response on the NT/95 boxes doing a remote view of ":1" on a FreeBSD box was more than acceptable. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 02:57:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20108 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA20001 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:55:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m0yomHE-00087JC; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: From: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) Subject: opt_ppp.h To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:55:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG opt_ppp.h seems to be missing from the source tree... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 03:06:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA21645 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:06:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from main_sd1.artnetonline.com ([194.122.116.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA21525 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:05:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuehl@lgk.de) Received: from di-021.hamburg.dialin-gw.net (di-021.hamburg.dialin-gw.net [195.90.225.21]) by main_sd1.artnetonline.com (NTMail 3.03.0013/1.abqk) with ESMTP id la748239 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:04:37 +0200 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:06:08 +0200 (CEST) Reply-To: kuehl@lgk.de From: Lars Gerhard Kuehl To: Julian Elischer Subject: RE: IFMX for Linux (fwd) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-Jun-98 Julian Elischer wrote: > > anyone want to test the linux emulation with this? I'd be interested. What are the conditiones? Lars /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Ph: +49 40 54768010 Lars Gerhard Kuehl Fx: +49 40 54768012 Mo: +49 171 9307085 Em: kuehl@lgk.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 03:06:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA21681 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:06:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA21506 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:05:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 8791 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1998 10:05:28 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1998 10:05:28 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:05:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS send error 55 for fs: In-Reply-To: <199806240915.CAA23568@usr08.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm on a box with a fxp ethernet (2 of them), to a 100MB full-duplex hub, from there to a Network Appliance. I NFS mount the Netapp on many of my boxes, this is the only one that complains. The mail server running 2.2.5 doesn't complain, and the 3.0 boxes don't, just this one. The network interface has no errors, no collisions. The hub shows nothing wrong either. There's a pretty constant stream of data to the netapp, no pauses in netstat output that I can see. I'll bump nmbclusters, and see if it helps. I notice that I'm running nfsiod -n 16, and all the nfsiod's are accumulating CPU time. On some of the lesser pounded-on servers, the last 4-5 don't get any CPU time... Just to see if I'm going crazy, I rebooted the 3.0 box that was the old INN server, and plugged in the cables, and it doesn't have the problem at all. Just cranks along... I can always go to 3.0 I guess, the UP stuff seems pretty solid, but I'd rather stay on -stable on production machines. On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > OK, but which buffer is it out of? MAXUSERS is set to 128. Is this > > an NMBCLUSTERS fix thingie? MSIZE? NBUF? > > NMBCLUSTERS. > > I'm betting this is a server death, resulting in all local buffers > being used up. > > If you have a ppp connection, you can do the same thing by turning off > your modem, and starting a "ping" to bring the link up. Pretty quick > way to screw your system. > > You should look at the underlying problem, which is probably hardware. > > Are you using a 10/100 card, supposedly in 100 mode, supposedly it's > being autodetected? A number of cards have problems with this; Doug > Ambrisko would be able to fill you in... > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 03:09:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA22331 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:09:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA22167 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 9347 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1998 10:08:19 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 1998 10:08:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:08:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS send error 55 for fs: In-Reply-To: <199806240915.CAA23568@usr08.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On the assumption that it's getting overloaded, I fired up iozone, it pumps out 6.6 - 7.2MBps to the netapp, for as big a file as I had free space, w/o generating the error. I notice that it's specifically tied to INN, if I shut off innd, I don't get the error, regardless of the combo's of diskex, iozone, and bonnie I run. Turn on INN, wait a few minutes, and shazam. On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > OK, but which buffer is it out of? MAXUSERS is set to 128. Is this > > an NMBCLUSTERS fix thingie? MSIZE? NBUF? > > NMBCLUSTERS. > > I'm betting this is a server death, resulting in all local buffers > being used up. > > If you have a ppp connection, you can do the same thing by turning off > your modem, and starting a "ping" to bring the link up. Pretty quick > way to screw your system. > > You should look at the underlying problem, which is probably hardware. > > Are you using a 10/100 card, supposedly in 100 mode, supposedly it's > being autodetected? A number of cards have problems with this; Doug > Ambrisko would be able to fill you in... > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 03:31:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA27389 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:31:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA27281; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:30:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@swan.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from quokka.prth.tensor.pgs.com (quokka [157.147.224.10]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28872; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:29:49 +0800 (WST) Received: from swan.tensor.pgs.com (swan [157.147.227.20]) by quokka.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA26371; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:29:16 +0800 (WST) Received: from swan by swan.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA04542; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:29:01 +0800 Message-Id: <199806241029.SAA04542@swan.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New Glide drivers for Linux released, inc VooDoo Rush & /dev/3dfx Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:29:01 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The latest Glide stuff for Linux has support for Voodoo Rush and an X server for the Rush as well. Sources to the X server are available. Also the new glide stuff supports /dev/3dfx, and has sources for the Linux kernel driver. Anyone wanting to do the port? Check out the following URL - http://glide.xxedgexx.com/3DfxRPMS.html Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 04:01:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA03635 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA03612 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:01:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pechter@shell.monmouth.com) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id HAA13271; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:01:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199806241101.HAA13271@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: VT100 emulation on Windows3.x/95 To: joelh@gnu.org Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806240645.BAA01400@detlev.UUCP> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Jun 24, 98 01:45:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Now, you also wanted a usable client. > > There are more options availible, including some no-charge > implementations, on Tucows (http://www.tucows.com/) and WinFiles > (http://www.winfiles.com/). I am not aware of any that come with > source code, although I wouldn't be suprised to see it. (I've been > meaning to write a pure console-mode telnet with VT100 support, but > haven't gotten around to it yet. The only similar item I saw had one > minor bug in its newline handling that prevents redirection, which I > need.) > Another good client from Tucows is TeraTerm... I ran it against the VTTEST program and found the results are great and it's Freeware. Kermit also has great emulation. I'm using it at work along with the VT100 which comes with Exceed and I've decided I prefer TeraTerm because it's light, simple and just works. Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 04:31:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA10550 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:31:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA10493; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:31:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14619; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:30:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806241130.NAA14619@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: New Glide drivers for Linux released, inc VooDoo Rush & /dev/3dfx In-Reply-To: <199806241029.SAA04542@swan.tensor.pgs.com> from Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth at "Jun 24, 98 06:29:01 pm" To: shocking@prth.pgs.com (Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:30:30 +0200 (CEST) Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth who wrote: > > The latest Glide stuff for Linux has support for Voodoo Rush and an X server > for the Rush as well. Sources to the X server are available. Also the new > glide stuff supports /dev/3dfx, and has sources for the Linux kernel driver. > Anyone wanting to do the port? Check out the following URL - > > http://glide.xxedgexx.com/3DfxRPMS.html Hmm, are you sure one doesn't need the SDK to compile/link the Xserver?? I think we still need the Glide libs to do this... If everything is there - get me a 3dfx card :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 04:40:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12977 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:40:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA12830 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:39:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Spinner) with ESMTP id TAA12056; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:38:59 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199806241138.TAA12056@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jaye Mathisen cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS send error 55 for fs: In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:30:19 MST." Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:38:58 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > OK, but which buffer is it out of? MAXUSERS is set to 128. Is this > an NMBCLUSTERS fix thingie? MSIZE? NBUF? It's running into IFQ_MAXLEN, this is the same problem that causes ping to fail with 'no buffer space'. The original network code used to drop the packets silently when the outbound queue limit was reached. DG changed it so that it reported back an ENOBUFS error. What's actually happening is that the combination of NFS and possibly other traffic has filled the outbound queue. The fix is probably to ignore the error within NFS, since it'll have to retransmit and Just Get Over It. > On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > I switched from a 3.0 box running INN to a 2.2.6 PII box running INN, > > > and I'm getting this message in spades on the 2.2.6 box. > > > > > > Any ideas what to change? > > > > #define ENOBUFS 55 /* No buffer space available */ > > > > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm Netplex Consulting To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 04:41:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA13224 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:41:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA13160 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:41:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Spinner) with ESMTP id TAA12106; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:40:58 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199806241140.TAA12106@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: mrcpu@internetcds.com (Jaye Mathisen), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS send error 55 for fs: In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:15:06 GMT." <199806240915.CAA23568@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:40:57 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > OK, but which buffer is it out of? MAXUSERS is set to 128. Is this > > an NMBCLUSTERS fix thingie? MSIZE? NBUF? > > NMBCLUSTERS. No, won't make any difference. You'd be getting a panic or a crash if that was the problem. > I'm betting this is a server death, resulting in all local buffers > being used up. > > If you have a ppp connection, you can do the same thing by turning off > your modem, and starting a "ping" to bring the link up. Pretty quick > way to screw your system. If it's a pppd link it's quite easy to provoke this, although why you'd want to run NFS over modem links is beyond me. :-) > You should look at the underlying problem, which is probably hardware. > > Are you using a 10/100 card, supposedly in 100 mode, supposedly it's > being autodetected? A number of cards have problems with this; Doug > Ambrisko would be able to fill you in... > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm Netplex Consulting To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 04:48:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14366 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:48:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Eleet.iele.polsl.gliwice.pl (michalk@eleet.iele.polsl.gliwice.pl [157.158.17.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA14198 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 04:47:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michalk@Eleet.iele.polsl.gliwice.pl) Received: from localhost (michalk@localhost) by Eleet.iele.polsl.gliwice.pl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA11864; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:47:20 +0200 Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:47:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: Michal Kopijasz To: HenrisK cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980624110454.0079db70@smtp-gw.is.lt> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, HenrisK wrote: > > unsubscribe freebsd-hackers > > HenrisK. cornolio@is.lt > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Use it to: majordomo@freebsd.org Michal alias mkm http://elf.univ.waw.pl/~znachor traceroute to siemianowice.sl.pl mailto: mordownia@50.ml.org "Albo znajdziemy droge, albo ja zbudujemy" Hannibal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 05:02:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16875 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:02:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA16861 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:02:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ernie!bert.kts.org!hm@ppp.net) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc2.ppp.net [194.64.12.42]) by mail.ppp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA03127; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:02:01 +0200 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0yooFV-002ZjcC; Wed, 24 Jun 98 14:02 MET DST Received: from bert.kts.org(really [194.55.156.2]) by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with smtp id for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:58:44 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #3 built 1998-Feb-14) Received: by bert.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:53:51 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #1 built 1998-Jun-6) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: <6766.898632269@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jun 23, 98 01:04:29 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:53:51 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers) Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > "Hey, Hellmuth, don't you think it's time to update pcvt and better > integrate it into FreeBSD?" :-) Thanks for asking that question, Jordan! :-) Yes, i think the time has come to do something, but you know, i'm currently putting all my spare time into this ISDN project, and as soon as this has settled a bit, i'll work on updating pcvt and better integrate it into FreeBSD, ok ? ;-) > Even better, do you have any areas in which you'd like some help? The best thing were a framework for handling lowlevel keyboard stuff, video stuff, (for those who want it) mouse stuff and X11 stuff in which all sorts of emulations and fancy things can live. The great unified console driver we talk about since 386BSD. This would mean that all the nitty-gritty stuff would be done only once and not duplicated in all drivers and one could really concentrate on the emulation. That would be the greatest help, right now i have no more ideas simply because i live in an ISDN stack currently. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe A duck is like a bicycle because they both have two wheels except the duck (terry@cs.weber.edu) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 05:09:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17916 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:09:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA17904 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:09:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10257; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:09:09 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA22400; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:09:08 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980624140908.39164@follo.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:09:08 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Tom Torrance at home , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: opt_ppp.h References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Tom Torrance at home on Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 05:55:40AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 05:55:40AM -0400, Tom Torrance at home wrote: > opt_ppp.h seems to be missing from the source tree... Generated by config(8). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 05:10:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA18152 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:10:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA18142 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:10:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA21801; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:10:15 -0400 Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:10:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Open Systems Networking cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > Just to backup the MBONE feed statement jordan made about ISP's and > network providers, trying to get an MBONE here in kansas, usually results > in a 2 hours long phone chase between "network engineers" who have to be > told WHAT the MBONE is, then they have to check with their supreme on high > 400K dollar a year bosses just to call you back and tell you that yes > indeed they do offer ISDN video conferencing. Which of course is not what > you originally asked for but it seems that is all they can comprehend. > You could slap a nice pretty GUI on all the config tools for mbone on unix > you want, but until you find a provider who carries MBONE feeds, let alone > even remotely knows what the MBONE is, it isnt going to do you much good. > I have tried sprint, mci, and feist here and not one engineer knew the > difference between the MBONE and a video conferencing ISDN solution. > No matter how many times you explain it etc.. > I have given up trying to make use of the MBONE here. > Maybe ill just get one of those elite ISDN video conferencing feeds they > seem to know so much about :-) MCI knows what an MBONE feed is. I believe the address you need for MCI is mbone@internetmci.com. They used to offer this free to high bandwidth clients. I don't know if it's still free or not. Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 05:17:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19115 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:17:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nep.donbass.com (nep.donbass.com [195.184.200.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA19074 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:16:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from geka@nep.donbass.com) Received: (from geka@localhost) by nep.donbass.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15319 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:16:00 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from geka) From: "Eugene N. Drachenko" Message-Id: <199806241216.PAA15319@nep.donbass.com> Subject: DerectPC To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:15:59 +0300 (EEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anybody use DirectPC with FreeBSD -- Eugene N. Drachenko hostmaster@inep.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 05:34:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22638 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:34:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA22585 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:34:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14751; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:33:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806241233.OAA14751@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: from Hellmuth Michaelis at "Jun 24, 98 01:53:51 pm" To: hm@kts.org Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:33:05 +0200 (CEST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Hellmuth Michaelis who wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > "Hey, Hellmuth, don't you think it's time to update pcvt and better > > integrate it into FreeBSD?" :-) > > Thanks for asking that question, Jordan! :-) > > Yes, i think the time has come to do something, but you know, i'm currently > putting all my spare time into this ISDN project, and as soon as this has > settled a bit, i'll work on updating pcvt and better integrate it into > FreeBSD, ok ? ;-) Well, just tell us when you are ready then, but don't expect the world to stand still inbetween.. > > Even better, do you have any areas in which you'd like some help? > > The best thing were a framework for handling lowlevel keyboard stuff, video > stuff, (for those who want it) mouse stuff and X11 stuff in which all sorts > of emulations and fancy things can live. The great unified console driver we > talk about since 386BSD. This would mean that all the nitty-gritty stuff would > be done only once and not duplicated in all drivers and one could really > concentrate on the emulation. Well, that might be arranged, but you need to adjust to that framework then. > That would be the greatest help, right now i have no more ideas simply because > i live in an ISDN stack currently. You dont want to know how many projects I live in then :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 05:48:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA25170 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:48:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA25091 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:48:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA07653; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:49:57 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199806241249.IAA07653@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: option MROUTING To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806240811.BAA21542@usr08.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jun 24, 98 08:11:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Terry Lambert had to walk into mine and say: > > You could slap a nice pretty GUI on all the config tools for mbone on unix > > you want, but until you find a provider who carries MBONE feeds, let alone > > even remotely knows what the MBONE is, it isnt going to do you much good. Even if they do know what it is, that sometimes doesn't help. [chop] > > I have tried sprint, mci, and feist here and not one engineer knew the > > difference between the MBONE and a video conferencing ISDN solution. > > You didn't try very hard at Sprint: Vadim Antonov works there as a > network engineer. > Then maybe he can explain why Columbia's MBONE service from Sprint sucks so much. Traffic from Columbia goes from our primary gateway to mbone.appliedtheory.com, and then to pen-mbone-1.sprintlink.net, which, I've been told, is a Sun SPARC machine of some kind running Solaris. It has a large bunch of tunnels hung off it, and it leaks packets like a sieve. When connectivity isn't screwed up like it is now (more on this in a second), it loses anywhere from 40% to 60% of all the traffic passing through it. The shuttle mission astronauts can hear NASA better than we can when a mission is being multicast. Recently though, things have gotten even weirder. It looks as though the particular chunk of the MBONE on which reside has been split off from the rest of the world. I only see one thing in the session directory these days, and that's Radio Free Vat. The only people I see on that group are either closely peered to Sprint or overseas somewhere. I've been told that plans are afoot to obtain an MBONE tunnel from an alternate source because Sprint's service is so spotty. About the only good thing about the whole mess is that at least now I can actually listen to Radio Free Vat. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 08:38:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23977 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:38:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [192.35.17.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23920 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:37:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de (at relayer david.siemens.de) Received: from salomon.mchp.siemens.de (salomon.siemens.de [139.23.33.13]) by david.siemens.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA14080 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:36:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from curry.mchp.siemens.de (daemon@curry.mchp.siemens.de [146.180.31.23]) by salomon.mchp.siemens.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16634 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:37:21 +0200 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by curry.mchp.siemens.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20386 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:37:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Andre Albsmeier Message-Id: <199806241537.RAA14746@internal> Subject: Re: opt_ppp.h In-Reply-To: <19980624140908.39164@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Jun 24, 98 02:09:08 pm" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:37:34 +0200 (CEST) Cc: tom@tomqnx.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 05:55:40AM -0400, Tom Torrance at home wrote: > > opt_ppp.h seems to be missing from the source tree... > > Generated by config(8). Don't think so. I don't have any ppp line in my kernel config: ===> lkm/if_ppp echo "#define NBPFILTER 0" > bpfilter.h echo "#define NPPP 2" > ppp.h rm -f .depend mkdep -f .depend -a -I. -DINET -DKERNEL -DACTUALLY_LKM_NOT_KERNEL -I/src/src-2.2/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys -I/usr/obj/src/src-2.2/tmp/usr/include -DPSEUDO_LKM /src/src-2.2/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/bsd_comp.c /src/src-2.2/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/if_ppp.c /src/src-2.2/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/ppp_tty.c /src/src-2.2/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/slcompress.c /src/src-2.2/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/if_ppp.c:79: opt_ppp.h: No such file or directory /src/src-2.2/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/ppp_tty.c:78: opt_ppp.h: No such file or directory mkdep: compile failed *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Happening on 2.2.6-STABLE. -Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 09:12:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00714 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:12:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00630 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:11:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20782; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:11:37 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA26129; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:11:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980624181137.61469@follo.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:11:37 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Andre Albsmeier Cc: tom@tomqnx.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: opt_ppp.h References: <19980624140908.39164@follo.net> <199806241537.RAA14746@internal> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199806241537.RAA14746@internal>; from Andre Albsmeier on Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 05:37:34PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 05:37:34PM +0200, Andre Albsmeier wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 05:55:40AM -0400, Tom Torrance at home wrote: > > > opt_ppp.h seems to be missing from the source tree... > > > > Generated by config(8). > > Don't think so. I don't have any ppp line in my kernel config: Do you have the newest config? There were lots of changes in the behaviour over the last revision... opt_xxx.h files are generally generated by config, at least. You need to have i386/conf/options.i386 and conf/options up to date for this to work correctly. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 09:28:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04639 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:28:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04489 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:27:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08258 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:27:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:27:25 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199806241627.JAA08258@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:36:27 -0600 (MDT) >From: Atipa >The "database" should be ASCII, and lean (like rc.conf, resolv.conf, etc., >etc.). I don't see why you would need to cahnge any of these type files. If folks interested in such things haven't done so already, I recommend that y'all take a look at the "RDB" package, by Walt Hobbs, at ftp.rand.org. It's a bunch of Perl scripts that work with flat ASCII files; the model is that a "database" is implemented as a file; "records" are terminated by newline characters; and "fields" are separated by tabs. Thus, if the supplied Perl scripts don't quite do what you want, you can easily use standard UNIX text-manipulation tools; you can also cobble up more Perl code. Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 09:28:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04759 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:28:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [192.35.17.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04544 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:28:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de (at relayer david.siemens.de) Received: from salomon.mchp.siemens.de (salomon.siemens.de [139.23.33.13]) by david.siemens.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA23304 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:26:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from curry.mchp.siemens.de (daemon@curry.mchp.siemens.de [146.180.31.23]) by salomon.mchp.siemens.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00521 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:26:58 +0200 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by curry.mchp.siemens.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21169 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:27:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Andre Albsmeier Message-Id: <199806241627.SAA13410@internal> Subject: Re: opt_ppp.h In-Reply-To: <19980624181137.61469@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Jun 24, 98 06:11:37 pm" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:27:09 +0200 (CEST) Cc: andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de, tom@tomqnx.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 05:37:34PM +0200, Andre Albsmeier wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 05:55:40AM -0400, Tom Torrance at home wrote: > > > > opt_ppp.h seems to be missing from the source tree... > > > > > > Generated by config(8). > > > > Don't think so. I don't have any ppp line in my kernel config: > > Do you have the newest config? There were lots of changes in the > behaviour over the last revision... > > opt_xxx.h files are generally generated by config, at least. You need > to have i386/conf/options.i386 and conf/options up to date for this to > work correctly. I think so. But here it fails when compiling the lkm... Here's is what I have done: make depend all install in usr/sbin/config, works make world fails when building the lkm config MYKERNEL works make depend all install for MYKERNEL, works I have no ppp in MYKERNEL. Thanks, -Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 09:34:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06045 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:34:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA05924 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:34:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA23394; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:34:03 -0400 (EDT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) In-Reply-To: <199806240645.BAA01400@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If you use the win95 supplied telnet, make sure that you don't set the scrollback buffer above 500(?) or so, as you will end up with just the title bar and no obvious way to get your full window back. It's a bug listed somewhere on the 'knowledge base'. I believe you had to hit "alt" then "t" and scroll to preferences and then set the scrollback buffer to a lower value. Charles Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com ---- On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > >>> That's a pity. I'd guess that 95% of the non-hackers have never even > >>> heard of LINT. Without having their heads stuck into it, I doubt > >> Most non-hackers have no idea what a vt100 terminal is either, or why > >> they'd even want to use one in this GUI-infested day and age. No > >> problem, I guess. :) > > Well, one reason might be that most Microslop "telnet" abominations > > claim (without good reason) to emulate a VT100. > > Aside: Does anybody know one that works? > > You mean a VT100 telnet client for Windows that works? I'll list a > few in a second, but first I'll point out what I learned to handle > field circus calls. I've found that if you take a few steps, the > client that comes with 95 can be marginally usable on most Unixes-- at > least, it handles emacs, nethack, and screen ok. > > (1) Don't resize or move the window, or access the menus, unless you > don't expect to be receiving data during the operation. The > temptation is great to resize to full screen during the MOTD, but if > data arrives while you're fiddling with this, then the telnet client > will be put in a bad state. (It looks like a ring queue gets out of > sync, but I could be wrong.) > > (2) Upon first logging in, type 'export TERM=vt100 ; stty rows 25' or > your shell's equivalent. (On some machines, notably HP/UX systems, > the stty will fail. On these machines, use 'export TERM=vt100 > LINES=25' instead.) > > (3) Resize the window to maximum size. Just grab a corner and bring > it out until it don't go anymore. (On 640x480 resolutions, this may > involve moving the window to the top of the screen first.) I'll > occasionally think I have messed up a session, when all I had to do > was scroll down. Now I just keep everything onscreen. > > Some other concessions may have to be made for transmitted keys, but > the basic functionality is there. (Emacs users: I recommend adding > (global-set-key [?\C-c ?m] 'set-mark-command) > to your .emacs if your client won't send C-@. This allows C-c m to set > the mark.) > > Now, you also wanted a usable client. I have used CRT, from Van Dyke > Software (http://www.vandyke.com/). They have a very good > rlogin/telnet client, including separate settings for different > sessions, full VT-series emulation (with configurable color options), > and-- I just plain like this, for some reason-- it can use any Windows > fonts, or its internal VT100 fonts. The web site has a 30-day demo > version availible, and the registration fee is light. > > There are more options availible, including some no-charge > implementations, on Tucows (http://www.tucows.com/) and WinFiles > (http://www.winfiles.com/). I am not aware of any that come with > source code, although I wouldn't be suprised to see it. (I've been > meaning to write a pure console-mode telnet with VT100 support, but > haven't gotten around to it yet. The only similar item I saw had one > minor bug in its newline handling that prevents redirection, which I > need.) > > If you really want to go all-out, maybe you should use X. > Implementations for both 95 and NT availible. There are a couple of > good no-charge ones, many commercial ones (some with demos, typically > 30 minute or single machine). I haven't seen any with source code. > Pointers availible. > > Happy hacking, > joelh > > -- > Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan > Fourth law of programming: > Anything that can go wrong wi > sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 09:41:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07560 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:41:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tinker.com (troll.tinker.com [204.214.7.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07393 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kim@tinker.com) Received: by localhost (8.8.5/8.8.5) Received: by mail.tinker.com via smap (V2.0) id xma003600; Wed Jun 24 11:28:33 1998 Received: by localhost (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA19103 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:30:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: by localhost (NX5.67g/) id AA13655; Wed, 24 Jun 98 11:37:17 -0500 Message-Id: <9806241637.AA13655@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148) From: Kim Shrier Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 11:37:16 -0500 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration Reply-To: kim@tinker.com References: <199806240704.EAA23043@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >// If we're going to do something now, let's stick with 90's techniques >// at least. :-) > >Could you please elaborate on this ? My preferred technique for >system configuration is vi. Are there any others ? :))) If I could add my 2 cents... I have to manage FreeBSD boxes that are geographically scattered in 4 different locations. I need to be able to ssh in and use ed or uemacs to edit the configuration files. The only "90's" solutions I have seen are the ad-hoc solutions in NT or the web/java kludges that some people are putting on their products. Neither of these GUI approaches work well in my opinion. I strongly recommend that whatever you propose should be usable from a command line. I also strongly recommend that all data be stored in plain ascii files. Kim Shrier kim@tinker.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 09:54:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09688 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:54:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09603 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:53:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA22472 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16528 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id KAA04665 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:01:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:01:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199806241401.KAA04665@lakes.dignus.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: block devices to disappear! In-Reply-To: <199806240844.BAA22345@usr08.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > had in no other fashion. Let's meake sure that the block device interface > is not in the same [complex but useful - ed.] category before summarily > executing it. In a similar context - I'd like to ask some simple questions. Can anyone clearly state why they were needed in UNIX at it's offset? Once that is understood - is it still the case, or has it been obviated in some way? I believe answers to these questions would be illuminating for the nervous amongst us (I count myself in the 'nervous' category on this one.) The reason I call for caution is simple - these have been with UNIX a long time... if they could have been simplified at the offset, why weren't they? What's different now? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'd just like to understand what's changed from 20+ years ago... - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 10:02:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11224 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:02:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11093; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:02:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ernie!bert.kts.org!hm@ppp.net) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc2.ppp.net [194.64.12.42]) by mail.ppp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA09216; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:02:01 +0200 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0yosvo-002ZjcC; Wed, 24 Jun 98 19:02 MET DST Received: from bert.kts.org(really [194.55.156.2]) by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with smtp id for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:13:03 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #3 built 1998-Feb-14) Received: by bert.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for sos@freebsd.org; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:08:10 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #1 built 1998-Jun-6) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: <199806241233.OAA14751@sos.freebsd.dk> from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= at "Jun 24, 98 02:33:05 pm" To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:08:10 +0200 (CEST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Søren Schmidt wrote: > Well, just tell us when you are ready then, but don't expect the world > to stand still inbetween.. I really hope someone will be there to prevent you from removing pcvt in the meantime, yes. > > > Even better, do you have any areas in which you'd like some help? > > > > The best thing were a framework for handling lowlevel keyboard stuff, video > > stuff, (for those who want it) mouse stuff and X11 stuff in which all sorts > > of emulations and fancy things can live. The great unified console driver we > > talk about since 386BSD. This would mean that all the nitty-gritty stuff would > > be done only once and not duplicated in all drivers and one could really > > concentrate on the emulation. > > Well, that might be arranged, but you need to adjust to that framework then. Have you ever heard of c-o-o-p-e-r-a-t-i-o-n ? Thats a behaviour which is fundamentally different to dictate. Read Jordan's question again. Got it ? And please stop putting more oil into the fire, ok ? Its enough already. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe A duck is like a bicycle because they both have two wheels except the duck (terry@cs.weber.edu) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 10:03:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11434 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11285 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:02:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA07008 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:01:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: password format Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I recently have had an odd thing happened, I rebuilt my system, and all the passwords were suddenly invalidated. The clue I get is from running vipw, where the old passwords (in encrypted format) don't seem to follow any paatern, but the new ones are all prefaced by "$1$". I need to upgrade a machine that has a lot of existing passwords, and I really can't afford to lose them all, so I need to see what happened and avoid it. Can anyone explain this to me? I suspect something with regards to maybe md5 formatting or something, but I don't know the right man page to read to figure this one out. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 10:10:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12578 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12453 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:09:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id NAA22716; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:09:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Jamie Bowden cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Jamie Bowden wrote: > MCI knows what an MBONE feed is. I believe the address you need for MCI > is mbone@internetmci.com. They used to offer this free to high bandwidth > clients. I don't know if it's still free or not. Yes i know THEY do, but try telling a local MCI geek what needs to be done. Chris -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 10:25:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15347 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:25:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picasso.wcape.school.za (picasso.wcape.school.za [196.21.102.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15240 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:24:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pvh@leftside.wcape.school.za) Received: from uucp by picasso.wcape.school.za with local-rmail (Exim 1.92 #2) id 0yotHB-0002Dj-00; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:24:05 +0200 Received: from localhost (pvh@localhost) by leftside.wcape.school.za (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA06391; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:30:41 +0200 (SAT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:30:41 +0200 (SAT) From: Peter van Heusden To: Atipa cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Atipa wrote: [snip] > The "database" should be ASCII, and lean (like rc.conf, resolv.conf, etc., > etc.). I don't see why you would need to cahnge any of these type files. > > In the case of UUCP/PPP/getty/etc. types of conflicts, I'd say just make > am ASCII resource file, and add to it only problems like this one that may > arise. No need to reinvent the wheel. I'd agree entirely that ASCII is the way to go - a simple structured ASCII format which would be editable with vi if you need to. I'd also agree that minimalism is good - we need something to 'add context' to config file variables, not replace the current config file system. I'll have a look at tclhttpd to see what it offers. Peter -- Peter van Heusden | Computers Networks Reds Greens Justice Peace Beer Africa pvh@leftside.wcape.school.za | Support the SAMWU 50 litres campaign! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 10:25:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15395 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:25:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ve7tcp.ampr.org (ve7tcp.ampr.org [198.161.92.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15289 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:24:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org) Received: from ve7tcp.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by ve7tcp.ampr.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA25068; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806241724.LAA25068@ve7tcp.ampr.org> To: Jamie Bowden cc: Open Systems Networking , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:10:15 EDT." Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:24:27 -0600 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Jamie" == Jamie Bowden writes: Jamie> MCI knows what an MBONE feed is. I believe the address you Jamie> need for MCI is mbone@internetmci.com. They used to offer Jamie> this free to high bandwidth clients. I don't know if it's Jamie> still free or not. Maybe I'm a bit dense, but I could never figure out where ISP's get off trying to charge me for something that *reduces* their infrastructure costs. Unless, maybe, they charge by the packet/byte and actually *want* all those redundent unicast streams running up the meter :-( Has anyone every signed a network services contract that specifically excludes routing of IP addresses in the multicast block? I've never heard of an ISP getting sued for breach of contract by not providing routing of all IP addresses (i.e. including multicast) ... --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 11:00:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23531 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:00:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23338 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:59:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00567; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806241759.KAA00567@implode.root.com> To: Cejka Rudolf cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fxp0: Hard bug??? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:42:53 +0200." <199806171342.NAA21334@sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:59:15 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >_BUT_ after adding two lines: > > CSR_WRITE_4(sc, FXP_CSR_PORT, FXP_PORT_SOFTWARE_RESET); > DELAY(10); > >in fxp_init() function, kernel boots well! > >I think, there _must_ be hard bug in initialization of Intel >EtherExpress 100B card in if_fxp.c. Am I right? fxp_init() calls fxp_stop() as the first thing it does. fxp_stop() does the reset as above as the first thing that it does. I don't see why adding the above lines of code to fxp_init() would make any difference since this is already occuring. You might try changing the DELAY(10) in fxp_stop() to something larger and see if that also fixes the problem. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 11:04:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24120 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:04:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23982; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:03:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00383; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:02:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806241802.UAA00383@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: from Hellmuth Michaelis at "Jun 24, 98 06:08:10 pm" To: hm@kts.org Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:02:32 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Hellmuth Michaelis who wrote: > Søren Schmidt wrote: > > > Well, that might be arranged, but you need to adjust to that framework then. > > Have you ever heard of c-o-o-p-e-r-a-t-i-o-n ? Thats a behaviour which is > fundamentally different to dictate. I've had it with your insinuations, you are not making it easier to try incorporate any of your ideas/work with that childish attitude towards other interests. Maybe you are having trouble discussing it in english I dont know, but I don't se that as an excuse, you could write in german if its so much trouble... > And please stop putting more oil into the fire, ok ? Its enough already. Why dont you stop then ???? :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 11:08:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24994 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:08:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24864 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:07:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00690; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806241808.LAA00690@implode.root.com> To: Cejka Rudolf cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fxp0: Hard bug??? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:42:53 +0200." <199806171342.NAA21334@sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:08:00 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >_BUT_ after adding two lines: > > CSR_WRITE_4(sc, FXP_CSR_PORT, FXP_PORT_SOFTWARE_RESET); > DELAY(10); > >in fxp_init() function, kernel boots well! I just noticed that you are using the 'SOFTWARE_RESET' instead of the 'SELECTIVE_RESET'. This is generally not recommended as it does a complete reset of the chip and requires complete reprogramming. In addition, it can also cause your PCI bus to hang if done when the card isn't completely idle. So are you saying that your card won't work propeyly without doing the SOFTWARE_RESET? What happens when you use the SELECTIVE_RESET instead? It sounds like your MSDOS driver is doing something very funky with the card...one can only imagine. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 11:33:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00775 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:33:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dash.isi.edu (root@dash.isi.edu [128.9.160.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00709; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:32:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from johnh@dash.isi.edu) Received: from dash.isi.edu (johnh@localhost.isi.edu [127.0.0.1]) by dash.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10210; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:31:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199806241831.LAA10210@dash.isi.edu> X-url: http://www.isi.edu/~johnh/ To: "Alton, Matthew" , "'Terry Lambert'" , FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Smallie, Scott" Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems and SunOS 4.1.1 In-reply-to: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF9017765F1@STLABCEXG011> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:31:02 -0700 From: John Heidemann Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Back from a trip I can finally pick up this thread: On Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:21:37 -0500, "Alton, Matthew" wrote: >... >It is conceivable that Sun may be persuaded to release the sources for a fee >a la SCO's "Ancient Versions" source license. If so, we FreeBeasties could >benifit from the mature SunOS 4.1.1 stackable filesystem code. Maybe we >should pester them. On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:48:51 -0500, "Alton, Matthew" wrote: > I apologize for being hopelessy vague and incomplete here. I was >thinking about > John Heidemann's work. His web page says that his primary development > platform was SunOS 4.1.1 and that there is "unsatisfactory" code in >Free- & > Net- BSD. I downloaded the necessarily incomplete (license issues)code >from > his site and was pining away for the rest. First, I don't think I've ever said the 4.4BSD stacking code was ``unsatisfactory''...it's just not a complete version of what was in the thesis. (This was for a variety of reasons, including time and other reasons.) For people wanting to expand BSD stacking, I can imagine some interesting projects: - adding support for user-level file-systems - replacing parallel lists of vnops in the filesystems (ex. ffs_{specop,fifoop}_opv_desc) with a generic ffs node that stacks over a spec/fifo node - building a real compression/encryption layer - structuring CD-ROM file systems as a set of layers (I don't know how hard this would be...) Of these things, none would hugely benefit from the SunOS-specific code. Only the first really requires code that's not already in BSD. Because of differences between BSD and SunOS' NFS implementations, I doubt full access to my modified SunOS-4.1.1 source code would substantally more helpful than just starting with the code on my web page, and it would raise lots of licensing issues that are best not messed with. More than more stacking infrastructure, I think BSD would benefit from more *use* of stacking (the last 3 bullets). -John Heidemann To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 11:34:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01223 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:34:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA01190 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:34:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 18520 invoked by uid 1017); 24 Jun 1998 17:31:44 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:31:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: Greg Lehey cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Sue Blake , Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) In-Reply-To: <19980624142512.C5023@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Tue, 23 June 1998 at 21:53:20 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> That's a pity. I'd guess that 95% of the non-hackers have never even > >> heard of LINT. Without having their heads stuck into it, I doubt > > > > Most non-hackers have no idea what a vt100 terminal is either, or why > > they'd even want to use one in this GUI-infested day and age. No > > problem, I guess. :) > > Well, one reason might be that most Microslop "telnet" abominations > claim (without good reason) to emulate a VT100. > > Aside: Does anybody know one that works? MS's default terminal is an ansi emulation. cons25 is always a pain in the rear to me when I need to work on remote aix/solaris/hpux, and the closest they have is vt100. Any workaround? Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 11:44:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02728 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:44:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02680 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:43:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00815 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806241844.LAA00815@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 3-stage bootloader, alpha version available. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:44:27 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Like it says; an alpha version of the new three-stage bootloader is available from http://www.freebsd.org/~msmith/boot. Thanks to the NetBSD folks for the starting point, and Doug Rabson for making it work initially on FreeBSD. Note that no copyrights were harmed in the making of these tarballs, nor is this a cut-n-paste of someone else's work. This supports booting normal and gzipped a.out FreeBSD kernels (many options may not work properly yet). Feedback and contributions are invited, in particular anyone that wants to help with loading via the current bootstrap is encouraged. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 11:53:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04431 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:53:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (root@mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04292 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:52:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-141.camalott.com [208.229.74.141] (may be forged)) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15905; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:51:42 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03438; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:52:06 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:52:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806241852.NAA03438@detlev.UUCP> To: tlambert@primenet.com CC: mrcpu@internetcds.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199806240813.BAA21614@usr08.primenet.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:13:18 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: NFS send error 55 for fs: From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199806240813.BAA21614@usr08.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> I switched from a 3.0 box running INN to a 2.2.6 PII box running INN, >> and I'm getting this message in spades on the 2.2.6 box. >> Any ideas what to change? > #define ENOBUFS 55 /* No buffer space available */ \begin{humor} Yes, if you change that line it will work much better. I suggest haiku: #define ENOBUFS 55 /* The buffers are full; * Close all the open programs. * You ask way too much. */ \end{humor} Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 12:09:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08116 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:09:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (root@mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07980 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:08:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-141.camalott.com [208.229.74.141] (may be forged)) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16794; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:07:39 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03550; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:08:03 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:08:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806241908.OAA03550@detlev.UUCP> To: tlambert@primenet.com CC: grog@lemis.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, sue@welearn.com.au, pechter@shell.monmouth.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199806240923.CAA23660@usr08.primenet.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:23:36 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199806240923.CAA23660@usr08.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> (1) Don't resize or move the window, or access the menus, unless you >> don't expect to be receiving data during the operation. The >> temptation is great to resize to full screen during the MOTD, but if >> data arrives while you're fiddling with this, then the telnet client >> will be put in a bad state. (It looks like a ring queue gets out of >> sync, but I could be wrong.) > Actually, the events are lost. That's curious, since that would seem that you would lose characters. Instead, characters are sent at approximately the same speed, just lagging behind. For example, in this failure mode, after running 'ls -l' you may be left with (as the last few lines): -rw-r--r-- 1 root joelh 6067 Apr 13 09:59 worm-stat.out.1 -rwxr-xr-x 1 joelh joelh 922 Apr 12 20:06 worm-stat.pl -rwxr-xr-x 1 joelh joelh 283 Apr 12 18:20 wormtest drwxr-xr-x 3 joelh joelh 512 May Then, you transmit another command, and you receive the trailing bit that got left off, and most of your next command: -rw-r--r-- 1 root joelh 6067 Apr 13 09:59 worm-stat.out.1 -rwxr-xr-x 1 joelh joelh 922 Apr 12 20:06 worm-stat.pl -rwxr-xr-x 1 joelh joelh 283 Apr 12 18:20 wormtest drwxr-xr-x 3 joelh joelh 512 May 1 1997 xdcmt detlev$ ps -ax | grep v0 237 v0 IWs 0:00.00 (bash) 364 v0 S+ 2:27.00 emacs 3489 v2 R+ 0: This has been my experience, at least. > The easiest way to get a "full screen" is to make a shortcut icon, > and then select "start maximized" on the "Properties..." panel. That is true. Remember, I'm usually doing this on-site, so making a shortcut icon is not practical. >> (2) Upon first logging in, type 'export TERM=vt100 ; stty rows 25' or >> your shell's equivalent. (On some machines, notably HP/UX systems, >> the stty will fail. On these machines, use 'export TERM=vt100 >> LINES=25' instead.) > You can use the X "resize" command, IFF you set your terminal type to > "xterm" in FreeBSD, even though the terminal emulation type you have > selected is (nominally) a VT100. > Oh yeah: DON'T make it more than 43 lines long. If you do, you will > get screen buffer corruption. I wouldn't know. I was more referring to the idea of connecting to a wide range of Unixes, some without X. Thanks for the alternative, tho! >> If you really want to go all-out, maybe you should use X. >> Implementations for both 95 and NT availible. > The VNC code apparently works well, both to NT and 95, and *from* them > (for displaying NT or Win95 sessions on an X server). They are missing > specific code on the Windows NT/95 "server" (not in the X sense, in > the telnetd sense) to follow window focus, which would be a big win > when going that direction, but X response on the NT/95 boxes doing > a remote view of ":1" on a FreeBSD box was more than acceptable. Not familiar with VNC. Pointers? -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 12:45:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14028 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:45:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14005 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:44:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01202; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806241944.MAA01202@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Chuck Robey cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: password format In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:01:37 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:44:50 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I recently have had an odd thing happened, I rebuilt my system, and all > the passwords were suddenly invalidated. The clue I get is from running > vipw, where the old passwords (in encrypted format) don't seem to follow > any paatern, but the new ones are all prefaced by "$1$". I need to > upgrade a machine that has a lot of existing passwords, and I really > can't afford to lose them all, so I need to see what happened and avoid > it. You probably built with NOSECURE, and lost your DES libraries. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 13:12:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18499 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:12:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18452 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:12:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01346; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806242012.NAA01346@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: ben@rosengart.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3-stage bootloader, alpha version available. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:19:18 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:12:26 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > Like it says; an alpha version of the new three-stage bootloader is > > available from http://www.freebsd.org/~msmith/boot. > > You should be careful to disambiguate -- are you referring to platform > or quality? ;-) A good point; this is substantially MI, but very definitely i386 only. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 13:20:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19726 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:20:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19653 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:20:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00389; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd000300; Wed Jun 24 13:20:01 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12612; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:19:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806242019.NAA12612@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) To: joelh@gnu.org Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:19:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, grog@lemis.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, sue@welearn.com.au, pechter@shell.monmouth.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806241908.OAA03550@detlev.UUCP> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Jun 24, 98 02:08:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> (1) Don't resize or move the window, or access the menus, unless you > >> don't expect to be receiving data during the operation. The > >> temptation is great to resize to full screen during the MOTD, but if > >> data arrives while you're fiddling with this, then the telnet client > >> will be put in a bad state. (It looks like a ring queue gets out of > >> sync, but I could be wrong.) > > > > Actually, the events are lost. > > That's curious, since that would seem that you would lose characters. > Instead, characters are sent at approximately the same speed, just > lagging behind. For example, in this failure mode, after running > 'ls -l' you may be left with (as the last few lines): The notification *event* that would have normally triggered the dequeue of the Windows "event" (quoted because it isn't one, or it would be impossible to get desynchronized) is what is lost. The characters are characters, not *events*. The WinMain is not sent "events", it is sent *events*. > Then, you transmit another command, and you receive the trailing bit > that got left off, and most of your next command: Yes. There are "events" pending, but the notification of their arrival (the *events*) has been lost. Therefore when you get a new notification, you get lost at some point back in time. The point is that every time you get an *event*, you have to check for more than one "event"; you can't assume, in Windows programming, that there is a 1:1 correspondance (since, in this case, there obviously isn't). The easiest way to fix this is to "peek" the eventstack before exiting the WinMain (similar to the XPending fix for the XEvent/select problem in X when you don't implicit use XtMainLoop [or whatever it's called today]). This problem occurs because they are using the "async winsock", which actually operates by way of a hidden window that does a select under the covers, then calls Dispatch to send WinSock "events". The better way to do this is to implement an async notification mechanism, ala Windows NT, using a second thread that blocks in select and sends notifications. The Notification mechanism *does* work on Windows 95; you just have to make an anonymous port using an fd of -1 to get an unbound-to-an-fd notification point. This is because in Windows 95, sockets are not fd's; in Windows NT, they are. A carefully architected interface can be transparently portable between 95 and NT (the one Microsoft gives you was not carefully architected). > Not familiar with VNC. Pointers? Julian points out that there is a port. 8-). But: http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/ Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 13:26:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20600 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:26:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20539 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:25:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA07365; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:24:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Mike Smith cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: password format In-Reply-To: <199806241944.MAA01202@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > I recently have had an odd thing happened, I rebuilt my system, and all > > the passwords were suddenly invalidated. The clue I get is from running > > vipw, where the old passwords (in encrypted format) don't seem to follow > > any paatern, but the new ones are all prefaced by "$1$". I need to > > upgrade a machine that has a lot of existing passwords, and I really > > can't afford to lose them all, so I need to see what happened and avoid > > it. > > You probably built with NOSECURE, and lost your DES libraries. Didn't do NOSECURE. Might have lost the DES libs .... yeah, they're in /usr/lib, but not /usr/lib/aout. I didn't have MAKE_EBONES defined, could that have done it? Otherwise, I've checked my make.conf carefully, there's nothing about crypto defined, so should I add some define to it? > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 13:27:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20870 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (nw0njr/218jlBMvvZjL5L5vb7ciQafSM@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA20841 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.67] ([hwCHJbL9gV0uzuyIrB3i9fAenr6wIOeY]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0yow7d-0002Zi-00; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:26:25 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0yow7c-0003A3-00; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:26:24 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:26:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration" (Jun 23, 9:48pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Matthew D. Fuller" Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration Cc: Peter van Heusden , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jun 23, 9:48pm, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: } Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration > > So, the first step is to write scripts/programs to create/edit the > > various config files: pppconfig, maybe some nice wrappers around pw, > > syslogconf, even a profileconf and cshconf, heck, let's complicate things > > more and make a rc.confconf. Just find every config file that people > > Eeek. I think this might have been a transitional approach of value > some 4-5 years ago, but nowadays we have namespace pollution and the > fact that front-ending things in this fashion is something which > proved its limitations and went out of fashion almost a decade ago. > If we're going to do something now, let's stick with 90's techniques > at least. :-) What do you mean Jordan? A windows style registry? LDAP? Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 13:28:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20926 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:28:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20865 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:27:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA28062; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:27:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: tlambert@primenet.com, grog@lemis.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, sue@welearn.com.au, pechter@shell.monmouth.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) In-Reply-To: <199806241908.OAA03550@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > Not familiar with VNC. Pointers? > /usr/ports/net/vnc http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc enjoy Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 13:34:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22419 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22349 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:34:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06693; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:34:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd006584; Wed Jun 24 13:34:04 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13686; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:33:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806242033.NAA13686@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NFS send error 55 for fs: To: peter@netplex.com.au (Peter Wemm) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:33:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mrcpu@internetcds.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806241138.TAA12056@spinner.netplex.com.au> from "Peter Wemm" at Jun 24, 98 07:38:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > OK, but which buffer is it out of? MAXUSERS is set to 128. Is this > > an NMBCLUSTERS fix thingie? MSIZE? NBUF? > > It's running into IFQ_MAXLEN, this is the same problem that causes ping to > fail with 'no buffer space'. The original network code used to drop the > packets silently when the outbound queue limit was reached. DG changed it > so that it reported back an ENOBUFS error. What's actually happening is > that the combination of NFS and possibly other traffic has filled the > outbound queue. > > The fix is probably to ignore the error within NFS, since it'll have > to retransmit and Just Get Over It. I think that perhaps there's an issue with NFS failing when it should ignore the error, given what you have said. Does the system fail, or are you just concerned over the errors on the console? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 13:40:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23254 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:40:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23190 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:39:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11061; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:39:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd010925; Wed Jun 24 13:39:17 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13931; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:39:13 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806242039.NAA13931@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NFS send error 55 for fs: To: mrcpu@internetcds.com (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:39:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Jun 24, 98 03:08:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I notice that it's specifically tied to INN, if I shut off innd, I > don't get the error, regardless of the combo's of diskex, iozone, and > bonnie I run. > > Turn on INN, wait a few minutes, and shazam. I'm betting that you have mmap() enabled in INN. I have been able to demonstrate more serious errors than this using 2.5.x and 2.6.x and the mmap in the Berkeley db code -- specifically, I have been able to get crontab to be corrupted while I was accessing a Berkeley db at the time cron was running. Apparently, the page get reused, but not dissociated from the VM object (this appears the most likely explanation). When the data is written back to the page from user space (in the db code), the page that was being used as backing for the crontab data is corrupted (ie: the page was reused for crontab). This is intermittently repeatable. I don't know, yet, whether it affects 3.x or not. My gut feeling is that it does, despite your short testing. I would *strongly* recommend that you avoid using mmap() at this time, and certainly avoid using it in FreeBSD 2.x. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 13:49:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25133 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:49:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25060 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:48:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15494; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:48:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015460; Wed Jun 24 13:48:35 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA14440; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:48:26 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806242048.NAA14440@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: option MROUTING To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:48:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, opsys@mail.webspan.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806241249.IAA07653@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "Bill Paul" at Jun 24, 98 08:49:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Then maybe he can explain why Columbia's MBONE service from Sprint > sucks so much. Traffic from Columbia goes from our primary gateway to > mbone.appliedtheory.com, and then to pen-mbone-1.sprintlink.net, > which, I've been told, is a Sun SPARC machine of some kind running > Solaris. It has a large bunch of tunnels hung off it, and it leaks > packets like a sieve. When connectivity isn't screwed up like it is > now (more on this in a second), it loses anywhere from 40% to 60% of > all the traffic passing through it. The shuttle mission astronauts > can hear NASA better than we can when a mission is being multicast. Have you made the appropriate QOS requests at the link layer for what is, in fact an ATM transport which is intentionally using the standard ATM "leaky bucket" packet forwarding algorithms? If not, it's now wonder that your bucket is leaking. However, I would be much more likely to blame the fact that the Gigaswitches at NASA Ames are insufficiently interconnected because some manager decided that there was no need to buy two more instead of one more when they needed more capacity than one could handle (can you say "flunked college algebra because of a failure to understand combinatorics? I knew you could..."). Try going someplace that doesn't depend on NASA, and posting a comparative analysis for us. PS: Why don't you contact Vadim and ask him; you are probably right that he can explain your problem to you... PPS: I don't like Sprint. They are cheap (not inexpensive) and they failed to upgrade their routers to get around the route drop problem when the rest of the world did; it took them a long time to come up to par. That said, I have great respect for Vadim's work, expescially that in BSDi and teh stuff that made it into FreeBSD through CSRG. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 13:58:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27229 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:58:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27121 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA04775; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:06:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806242106.HAA04775@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Weirdness with pthreads in -current In-Reply-To: <19980624031814.19037@kublai.com> from Brian Cully at "Jun 24, 98 03:18:14 am" To: shmit@kublai.com Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:06:56 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ This should have been sent to -current, not -hackers ] Brian Cully wrote: > If I call pthread_join(3) on a thread that's called sleep(3), > pthread_join returns a value of `3', but errno isn't touched. If > I remove the call to sleep inside of the thread, pthread_join works > just fine. POSIX says that pthread_join() returns zero if no error, otherwise an error number is returned. It doesn't touch errno because it is not supposed to. 8-) Error 3 is ESRCH which is (supposed to be) returned if the thread that you attempt to join can't be found. Since you say it is waiting, but still returning ESRCH, my guess is that it is waiting to lock either the thread list or the dead thread list and by the time it gets the lock, the thread has been joined by another thread. > This is -current from 28-May-1998, BTW. Do you have a small test program that exhibits this problem? -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 14:11:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29806 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:11:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29680; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:10:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26778; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:10:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd026713; Wed Jun 24 14:10:31 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15856; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:10:27 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806242110.OAA15856@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PCVT's death To: hm@kts.org Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:10:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Jun 24, 98 06:08:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Have you ever heard of c-o-o-p-e-r-a-t-i-o-n ? Thats a behaviour which is > fundamentally different to dictate. I disagree. Nonlinear Dynamics, Mathematical Biology, and Social Science Joshua M. Epstein Sante Fe Studies in the Sciences of Complexity Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, Inc. ISBN: 0-201-41988-2 Specifically, chapter 3: Imperfect Collective Security and Arms Race Dynamics: Why a Little Cooperation Can Make a Big Difference. In the discussions: (1) High Connectivity With Low Strength vs. (2) Low Connectivity With Higher (But Still Very Low) Strength vs. (3) GLOBOCOP Even in the face of the existance of a core team ("GLOBOCOP"), it is possible to achieve a high degree of net good, even if the GLOBOCOP actors fail to back down from their initial defense level as a result of a percieved external threat ("we fear change"). Even though the ideal in this case is (1), and less so, (2), instead of the (3) FreeBSD implements (as the relaxation to the base defense level takes longer through non-participation, there is a tendency for the actors to fragment into smaller defensive groups, cv. the *BSD splits and non-mergers), it's still possible to achieve a large amount of net good simply by radical inaction. "Never substitute activity for action" -- Seneca, Letters From a Stoic, 4 AD - 65 AD My advice: 1) Leave PCVT alone until absolutely necessary 2) Confer on the absoluteness of teh necessity before acting 3) Act on consensus, if possible, on reason, if not. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 14:20:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01789 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:20:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01601 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:20:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01634; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:19:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd001602; Wed Jun 24 14:19:48 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16406; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:19:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806242119.OAA16406@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: option MROUTING To: lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org (Lyndon Nerenberg) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:19:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jamie@itribe.net, opsys@mail.webspan.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806241724.LAA25068@ve7tcp.ampr.org> from "Lyndon Nerenberg" at Jun 24, 98 11:24:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Maybe I'm a bit dense, but I could never figure out where ISP's get off > trying to charge me for something that *reduces* their infrastructure > costs. Unless, maybe, they charge by the packet/byte and actually *want* > all those redundent unicast streams running up the meter :-( They are not charging for bandwidth usage. Charging for usage is quickly becoming computationationally hard (yea!). They are charging for having to hire soemone with more than an associates degree in CS from a community college; someone who didn't just go through the motions in college to get their "union card". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 14:50:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08899 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:50:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nike.ins.cwru.edu (chet@nike.INS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.8.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08814 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:50:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chet@nike.ins.cwru.edu) Received: (chet@localhost) by nike.ins.cwru.edu (8.8.7/CWRU-2.5-bsdi) id RAA17885; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:49:59 -0400 (EDT) (from chet) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:30:56 -0400 From: Chet Ramey To: ada@bsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu In-Reply-To: Message from ada@noether.lab.usyd.edu.au of Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:36:10 +1000 (EST) (id <199806210937.TAA19251@noether.blah.org>) Message-ID: <980624213056.AA12305.SM@nike.ins.cwru.edu> Read-Receipt-To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'd like to see zsh pushed for inclusion into the contrib tree; it's small, > beautiful, and inclusive (in that it understands a fair amount of csh as > well as sh syntax). Wow. This is the first time I've ever heard zsh described as `small' and `beautiful'. (FWIW, I don't think I'd describe bash that way, either, no matter how drunk I was.) I'd say that bash and zsh are of comparable size. The current development version of bash-2.03, dynamically linked against shared readline and history libraries, is: nike.ins.cwru.edu(2)$ size bash text data bss dec hex 311296 12288 14048 337632 526e0 nike.ins.cwru.edu(2)$ ldd bash bash: -lreadline.4 => /usr/local/lib/libreadline.so.4.0 (0x8069000) -lhistory.4 => /usr/local/lib/libhistory.so.4.0 (0x808a000) -ltermcap.2 => /usr/lib/libtermcap.so.2.1 (0x808f000) -lc.3 => /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0 (0x8093000) A freshly-built zsh-3.1.4 on the same machine is: nike.ins.cwru.edu(2)$ size /usr/local/build/shells/zsh-3.1.4/Src/zsh text data bss dec hex 348160 24576 24136 396872 60e48 nike.ins.cwru.edu(2)$ ldd /usr/local/build/shells/zsh-3.1.4/Src/zsh /usr/local/build/shells/zsh-3.1.4/Src/zsh: -ltermcap.2 => /usr/lib/libtermcap.so.2.1 (0x8072000) -lc.3 => /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0 (0x8076000) Bash-2.02 (the currently-released version) is: nike.ins.cwru.edu(2)$ size ../bash-2.02/bash text data bss dec hex 389120 24576 6740 420436 66a54 nike.ins.cwru.edu(2)$ ldd ../bash-2.02/bash ../bash-2.02/bash: -ltermcap.2 => /usr/lib/libtermcap.so.2.1 (0x807c000) -lc.3 => /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0 (0x8080000) For grins, bash-2.01.1 was: nike.ins.cwru.edu(2)$ /bin/bash --version GNU bash, version 2.01.1(1)-release (i386-pc-freebsd2.2.5) Copyright 1997 Free Software Foundation, Inc. nike.ins.cwru.edu(2)$ size /bin/bash text data bss dec hex 364544 24576 5060 394180 603c4 nike.ins.cwru.edu(2)$ ldd /bin/bash /bin/bash: -ltermcap.2 => /usr/lib/libtermcap.so.2.1 (0x8076000) -lc.3 => /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0 (0x807a000) -- ``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer Chet Ramey, Case Western Reserve University Internet: chet@po.CWRU.Edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 15:16:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13730 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13572; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:16:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21666; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:16:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: hm@kts.org cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:08:10 +0200." Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:16:12 -0700 Message-ID: <21662.898726572@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Søren Schmidt wrote: > > > Well, just tell us when you are ready then, but don't expect the world > > to stand still inbetween.. > > I really hope someone will be there to prevent you from removing pcvt in the > meantime, yes. Boys! Boys! What is it with Danes and Germans? One would figure they'd learned to get along by now - it's been hundreds of years since the last conflict, at least! :-) Soren, you're really not helping. Go back to your IDE CDRs or something, please, and leave Hellmuth alone for awhile! :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 15:19:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14189 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14148; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:19:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21681; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Terry Lambert cc: hm@kts.org, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:10:27 -0000." <199806242110.OAA15856@usr04.primenet.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:19:24 -0700 Message-ID: <21676.898726764@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry, you're the only guy I know who could cite references while arbitrating a nude arm-wrestling contest in a pit of lime jello. I remove my cap, sir! :-) In the meantime, could everyone else kindly just shut up about this one already? Yeesh! One war a month is enough, you know? There has been enough core team upheavel already this quarter and anyone else staging a walk-out will have to wait until Autumn at the very minimum. :) - Jordan > > Have you ever heard of c-o-o-p-e-r-a-t-i-o-n ? Thats a behaviour which is > > fundamentally different to dictate. > > I disagree. > > Nonlinear Dynamics, Mathematical Biology, and Social Science > Joshua M. Epstein > Sante Fe Studies in the Sciences of Complexity > Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, Inc. > ISBN: 0-201-41988-2 > > Specifically, chapter 3: > > Imperfect Collective Security and Arms Race Dynamics: Why > a Little Cooperation Can Make a Big Difference. > > In the discussions: > > (1) High Connectivity With Low Strength > > vs. > > (2) Low Connectivity With Higher (But Still Very Low) Strength > > vs. > > (3) GLOBOCOP > > Even in the face of the existance of a core team ("GLOBOCOP"), it is > possible to achieve a high degree of net good, even if the GLOBOCOP > actors fail to back down from their initial defense level as a result > of a percieved external threat ("we fear change"). > > Even though the ideal in this case is (1), and less so, (2), instead of > the (3) FreeBSD implements (as the relaxation to the base defense level > takes longer through non-participation, there is a tendency for the > actors to fragment into smaller defensive groups, cv. the *BSD splits and > non-mergers), it's still possible to achieve a large amount of net good > simply by radical inaction. > > "Never substitute activity for action" > -- Seneca, Letters From a Stoic, 4 AD - 65 AD > > > My advice: > > 1) Leave PCVT alone until absolutely necessary > > 2) Confer on the absoluteness of teh necessity before acting > > 3) Act on consensus, if possible, on reason, if not. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 15:26:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15643 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:26:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coleridge.kublai.com (coleridge.kublai.com [207.96.1.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15519 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:25:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shmit@coleridge.kublai.com) Received: (from shmit@localhost) by coleridge.kublai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05477; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:22:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from shmit) Message-ID: <19980624182243.37940@kublai.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:22:43 -0400 From: Brian Cully To: John Birrell Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Weirdness with pthreads in -current Reply-To: shmit@kublai.com References: <19980624031814.19037@kublai.com> <199806242106.HAA04775@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199806242106.HAA04775@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 07:06:56AM +1000 X-Sender: If your mailer pays attention to this, it's broken. X-PGP-Info: finger shmit@kublai.com for my public key. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 07:06:56AM +1000, John Birrell wrote: > [ This should have been sent to -current, not -hackers ] I sent it to hackers because I didn't know if it was a real problem or just me misunderstanding something. :-) > Brian Cully wrote: > POSIX says that pthread_join() returns zero if no error, otherwise an > error number is returned. It doesn't touch errno because it is not supposed > to. 8-) Yah, I re-read the man pages and realized I jumped to conclusions because the errors began with E. :-) > > This is -current from 28-May-1998, BTW. > > Do you have a small test program that exhibits this problem? Yep, you can find it below. What's strange is that if I remove the `return NULL' statement in thread_func() I always get ESRCH, but with it there I only get ESRCH when the sleep() call exists. This may (and probably is) some drain-bamage on my part, but the behaviour is certainly weird enough that I think that there's some kind of bug somewhere in the thread code. :-) [SNIP] #include #include void * thread_func(void *arg) { printf("\tIn thread_func.\n"); sleep(2); printf("\tLeaving thread_func.\n"); pthread_exit(NULL); return NULL; } int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { int rc; pthread_t thread_id; printf("Creating thread.\n"); rc = pthread_create(&thread_id, NULL, thread_func, NULL); if (rc) { fprintf(stderr, "Error: couldn't create thread: %s.\n", strerror(rc)); return 1; } printf("Joining thread.\n"); rc = pthread_join(thread_id, NULL); if (rc) { fprintf(stderr, "Error: couldn't join with thread: %s.\n", strerror(rc)); return 1; } return 0; } [SNIP] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 15:37:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18031 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:37:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA17962; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:36:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA15703 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:37:40 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id XAA10075; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:03:47 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199806242103.XAA10075@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: <199806241802.UAA00383@sos.freebsd.dk> from Sxren Schmidt at "Jun 24, 98 08:02:32 pm" To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:03:46 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hm@kts.org, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Sxren Schmidt wrote... > In reply to Hellmuth Michaelis who wrote: > > Sxren Schmidt wrote: > > > > > Well, that might be arranged, but you need to adjust to that framework then. > > > > Have you ever heard of c-o-o-p-e-r-a-t-i-o-n ? Thats a behaviour which is > > fundamentally different to dictate. > > I've had it with your insinuations, you are not making it easier to > try incorporate any of your ideas/work with that childish attitude > towards other interests. > Maybe you are having trouble discussing it in english I dont know, > but I don't se that as an excuse, you could write in german if its > so much trouble... > > > And please stop putting more oil into the fire, ok ? Its enough already. > > Why dont you stop then ???? :( Gentlemen...... Please don't clobber each other in public. If it needs to be done, do it in private email. Please? _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 15:42:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18812 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gras-varg.worldgate.com (skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com [198.161.84.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18737 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:41:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skafte@worldgate.com) Received: (from skafte@localhost) by gras-varg.worldgate.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id QAA02284; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19980624164104.D1979@worldgate.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:41:04 -0600 From: Greg Skafte To: Greg Lehey , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Sue Blake , Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) References: <19980624064036.I2801@freebie.lemis.com> <8949.898664000@time.cdrom.com> <19980624142512.C5023@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980624142512.C5023@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 02:25:12PM +0930 Organization: WorldGate Inc. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 42 9C 2C A8 4D 2B C9 C4 7D B6 00 B0 50 47 20 97 X-URL: http://gras-varg.worldgate.com/~skafte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG vt102 ..... Quoting Greg Lehey (grog@lemis.com) On Subject: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) Date: Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 02:25:12PM +0930 > On Tue, 23 June 1998 at 21:53:20 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> That's a pity. I'd guess that 95% of the non-hackers have never even > >> heard of LINT. Without having their heads stuck into it, I doubt > > > > Most non-hackers have no idea what a vt100 terminal is either, or why > > they'd even want to use one in this GUI-infested day and age. No > > problem, I guess. :) > > Well, one reason might be that most Microslop "telnet" abominations > claim (without good reason) to emulate a VT100. > > Aside: Does anybody know one that works? > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Email: skafte@worldgate.com Voice: +403 413 1910 Fax: +403 421 4929 #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 -- -- When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex. (Janet Morris) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 16:19:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24939 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:19:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@korea-130.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.225.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24878 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA14426; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:20:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Tom Torrance at home cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: opt_ppp.h In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Tom Torrance at home wrote: > opt_ppp.h seems to be missing from the source tree... Actually all you need to do is run config on your kernel config file again. - alex | "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern | | technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." | | Powered by FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 16:22:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25384 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:22:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25307 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:21:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rssh@grad.kiev.ua) Received: from d4 ([10.0.0.44]) by proxy.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25216; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:20:53 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from rssh@grad.kiev.ua) Message-Id: <199806242320.CAA25216@proxy.grad.kiev.ua> From: "Ruslan Shevchenko" To: "Joao Carlos Mendes Luis" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: , , Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:20:46 +0430 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'll assume you were being only partially facetious and actually > answer the question. :-) > > A modern 90's-kinda-approach would be something like this: > > [GUI tool from hell] > [generic namespace layer] > [transform layer] > .. traditional ascii files .. > + good API interface (i.e. standart configuration library. primer (not very good) is SCO Open Server.) + extensebility. (exising standart format of description of some subsystem, like SNMP MIB) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 16:28:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26293 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:28:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uruk.sumeria.org (24-7-61.dialup.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.7.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26239 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:27:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beng@lcs.mit.edu) Received: from localhost (beng@localhost) by uruk.sumeria.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA04271 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:24:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: uruk.sumeria.org: beng owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:24:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Benjamin Greenwald X-Sender: beng@uruk.sumeria.org To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Status of new VX driver Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Several people have asked about my new VX driver, so I thought I'd give everyone a quick update. The driver for the 3Com 59x, 90xA and 90xB, minus some important but not critical features, is almost written and will be nearly complete later this evening. I have someone who is going to alpha test the driver over the next week, and I plan to start a general beta test the second week in July. If there are any questions, please send them directly to me and in the next 16 hours. I'm going to be in Barcelona for the International Symposium on Computer Architecture until July 3rd and will be otherwise completely unreachable until then. Thanks for everyone's support, interest, and patience. -Ben Greenwald To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 16:35:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27300 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:35:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27225 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:35:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22376; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Eivind Eklund cc: Andre Albsmeier , tom@tomqnx.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: opt_ppp.h In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:11:37 +0200." <19980624181137.61469@follo.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:33:32 -0700 Message-ID: <22371.898731212@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Do you have the newest config? There were lots of changes in the > behaviour over the last revision... > > opt_xxx.h files are generally generated by config, at least. You need > to have i386/conf/options.i386 and conf/options up to date for this to > work correctly. If this genuinely requires a "config version bump" then someone needs to bump %VERSREQ in /sys/i386/conf/Makefile.i386 and in config(8) so that we can now take advantage of its "complain if I'm out of sync" feature. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 17:43:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08398 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08337 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:42:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA15000; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:12:45 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id KAA15635; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:12:39 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980625101239.D14540@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:12:39 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Greg Skafte Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) References: <19980624064036.I2801@freebie.lemis.com> <8949.898664000@time.cdrom.com> <19980624142512.C5023@freebie.lemis.com> <19980624164104.D1979@worldgate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980624164104.D1979@worldgate.com>; from Greg Skafte on Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 04:41:04PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 24 June 1998 at 16:41:04 -0600, Greg Skafte wrote: >> On Tue, 23 June 1998 at 21:53:20 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >>>> That's a pity. I'd guess that 95% of the non-hackers have never even >>>> heard of LINT. Without having their heads stuck into it, I doubt >>> >>> Most non-hackers have no idea what a vt100 terminal is either, or why >>> they'd even want to use one in this GUI-infested day and age. No >>> problem, I guess. :) >> >> Well, one reason might be that most Microslop "telnet" abominations >> claim (without good reason) to emulate a VT100. >> >> Aside: Does anybody know one that works? > > vt102 ..... (ah, there it was, hiding at the top of the message where I wouldn't have expected it). Sorry, I don't understand. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 18:18:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14098 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:18:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14001 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:17:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m0yp0fB-00087JC; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: From: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) Subject: Re: opt_ppp.h In-Reply-To: <19980624181137.61469@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Jun 24, 98 06:11:37 pm" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Cc: andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de, tom@tomqnx.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 05:37:34PM +0200, Andre Albsmeier wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 05:55:40AM -0400, Tom Torrance at home wrote: > > > > opt_ppp.h seems to be missing from the source tree... > > > > > > Generated by config(8). > > > > Don't think so. I don't have any ppp line in my kernel config: > > Do you have the newest config? There were lots of changes in the > behaviour over the last revision... > > opt_xxx.h files are generally generated by config, at least. You need > to have i386/conf/options.i386 and conf/options up to date for this to > work correctly. > I had just run cvsup then 'make world'. It died for the lack of this file in lkm/if_ppp. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 18:23:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14832 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:23:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14715 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:22:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-249.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.249]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA04772; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:22:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16315; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:12:27 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199806250112.UAA16315@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD Hackers From: David Kelly Subject: Re: FreeBSD faster than light? In-reply-to: Message from Greg Lehey of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:50:18 +0930." <19980624165018.H5023@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:12:27 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey writes: > Can anybody explain why I'm using up a total of about 1.5 seconds of > CPU time in the following examples? This is a single CPU machine (AMD > K6/233) running -CURRENT as of the end of last month. The figures > seem surprisingly consistent. > > === grog@freebie (/dev/ttyp1) ~ 9 -> time l -rt Mail|wc > 3460 31133 192864 > > real 0m0.517s > user 0m1.230s > sys 0m0.270s What's "l"? n4hhe: {526} time l -rt Mail|wc l: Command not found. 0 0 0 n4hhe: {527} -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 18:45:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18665 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:45:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18540 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:44:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA15119; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:14:18 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id LAA28758; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:14:17 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980625111417.D18784@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:14:17 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: David Kelly Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: FreeBSD faster than light? References: <199806250112.UAA16315@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806250112.UAA16315@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from David Kelly on Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 08:12:27PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 24 June 1998 at 20:12:27 -0500, David Kelly wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: >> Can anybody explain why I'm using up a total of about 1.5 seconds of >> CPU time in the following examples? This is a single CPU machine (AMD >> K6/233) running -CURRENT as of the end of last month. The figures >> seem surprisingly consistent. >> >> === grog@freebie (/dev/ttyp1) ~ 9 -> time l -rt Mail|wc >> 3460 31133 192864 >> >> real 0m0.517s >> user 0m1.230s >> sys 0m0.270s > > What's "l"? > > n4hhe: {526} time l -rt Mail|wc > l: Command not found. > 0 0 0 > n4hhe: {527} An alias for "ls -lL". Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 19:35:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26126 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heathers2.stdio.com (lile@heathers2.stdio.com [199.89.192.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25997; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lile@stdio.com) Received: (from lile@localhost) by heathers2.stdio.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11561; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:30:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry S. Lile" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tokenring@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: timeout/untimeout differences in porting from Mach? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone have the man pages for timeout/untimeout for Mach? I am working on the interrupt code for the IBM token-ring card and don't really understand what the mach code was trying to do. It looks a bit strange compared to fbsd. Larry Lile lile@stdio.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 20:01:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29867 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:01:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA29858 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:00:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA15242; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:25:45 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id MAA03901; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:25:43 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980625122542.G18784@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:25:42 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: David Kelly Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: FreeBSD faster than light? References: <199806250235.VAA16819@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806250235.VAA16819@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from David Kelly on Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 09:35:24PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 24 June 1998 at 21:35:24 -0500, David Kelly wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: >> On Wednesday, 24 June 1998 at 20:12:27 -0500, David Kelly wrote: >>> What's "l"? >>> >>> n4hhe: {526} time l -rt Mail|wc >>> l: Command not found. >>> 0 0 0 >>> n4hhe: {527} >> >> An alias for "ls -lL". > > n4hhe: {550} time l > l: Command not found. > 0.0u 0.0s 0:00.00 0.0% 0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w > n4hhe: {551} alias l > ls -lL > n4hhe: {552} > > Maybe my failure provides some clue. The alias was manually entered. > Also tried putting it in ~/.cshrc > > Am I simply too tired to grok why time won't execute an alias on my > 2.2.6 system and Greg's (probably -current) does? This may be a difference between bash and csh. > Ooh! I see pppd just got a workover in -stable. Think I need to go play > with it. Maybe dial-on-demand has been added! I consider that unlikely. It's been there all the time. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 20:01:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26725 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:38:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26646 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:38:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-77.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.77]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA00165; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:38:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16819; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:35:24 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199806250235.VAA16819@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD Hackers From: David Kelly Subject: Re: FreeBSD faster than light? In-reply-to: Message from Greg Lehey of "Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:14:17 +0930." <19980625111417.D18784@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:35:24 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey writes: > On Wednesday, 24 June 1998 at 20:12:27 -0500, David Kelly wrote: > > What's "l"? > > > > n4hhe: {526} time l -rt Mail|wc > > l: Command not found. > > 0 0 0 > > n4hhe: {527} > > An alias for "ls -lL". n4hhe: {550} time l l: Command not found. 0.0u 0.0s 0:00.00 0.0% 0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w n4hhe: {551} alias l ls -lL n4hhe: {552} Maybe my failure provides some clue. The alias was manually entered. Also tried putting it in ~/.cshrc Am I simply too tired to grok why time won't execute an alias on my 2.2.6 system and Greg's (probably -current) does? Ooh! I see pppd just got a workover in -stable. Think I need to go play with it. Maybe dial-on-demand has been added! -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 20:15:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26544 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:37:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from noether.blah.org (mp-13-62.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.58.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26438 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:37:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ada@noether.lab.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from ada@localhost) by noether.blah.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03969 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:36:13 +1000 (EST) From: Ada Message-Id: <199806250236.MAA03969@noether.blah.org> Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: <980624213056.AA12305.SM@nike.ins.cwru.edu> from Chet Ramey at "Jun 24, 98 05:30:56 pm" To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:35:51 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: ada@bsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'd like to see zsh pushed for inclusion into the contrib tree; it's small, > > beautiful, and inclusive (in that it understands a fair amount of csh as > > well as sh syntax). > Wow. This is the first time I've ever heard zsh described as `small' > and `beautiful'. (FWIW, I don't think I'd describe bash that way, > either, no matter how drunk I was.) > I'd say that bash and zsh are of comparable size. The current > development version of bash-2.03, dynamically linked against > shared readline and history libraries, is: Well, shells should be statically linked. I was comparing static sizes and source sizes, and in this case, zsh is smaller by a fair chunk. -r--r--r-- 1 mirror mirror 1510428 Apr 17 14:10 bash-2.02.tar.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 mason zsh 848878 Jun 1 08:15 zsh-3.1.4.tar.gz I don't have binaries for bash handy, so I can't give you relative static sizes. Source size is important if we ever consider integrating either into the source tree as the 'standard' "user" shell. (Which, IMHO, we should do for at least one user-friendly shell). -- "Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do." -- Bertrand Russell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 21:40:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15268 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:40:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14872; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA12290; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 00:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 00:37:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: "Larry S. Lile" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tokenring@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timeout/untimeout differences in porting from Mach? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Larry S. Lile wrote: > Does anyone have the man pages for timeout/untimeout for Mach? > I am working on the interrupt code for the IBM token-ring card > and don't really understand what the mach code was trying to > do. It looks a bit strange compared to fbsd. If I'm not mistaken its the same purpose as the ifp->if_watchdog routine. The if code calls this depending on the setting of ifp->if_timer. See net/if.c in if_slowtimo() /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 22:52:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25898 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:52:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles133.castles.com [208.214.165.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25810 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00374; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806250051.RAA00374@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Robert Watson cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: lkm MALLOC interactions, new proc field In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:33:59 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:51:16 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > As part of my work relating to the Coda Project, and other code making use > of tickets/tokens/etc for authentication, I am writing a loadable kernel > module providing a syscall and hooking some process events (such as fork, > exit) to maintain in-kernel Process Authentication Groups (PAGs). > However, I have run into a few small problems. > > 1) I make use of MALLOC_DEFINE() to define three new structure types to > track memory use in the lkm. However, when I unload the lkm, vmstat -m > gets quite upset. Is there a way I can "unregister" my types with the > kernel MALLOC routines to prevent this from happening? (the malloc_type > structure is in the lkm's memory space, of course, so this is the source > of the problem anyway). Should I just not be doing this? Is this support > already there, and it is just that I am leaking memory? :) There is no support for removing a malloc type; there needs to be a counterpart to kern/kern_malloc.c:malloc_init() which checks the ks_inuse field and then removes the structure from the list. To do this "right" the list should be updated to use the QUEUE macros. If you instantiate the malloc type in your module, you need to remove it before you allow the module to be removed, as otherwise you break the type chain (as you have noticed). > 2) I am running on a rather old version of -CURRENT on my kernel dev > machine right now (January or something :) -- the snap server was down for > a while so I have not upgraded. Anyhow, in this version of FreeBSD, the > MALLOC(9) man page has an error -- the sample code given reverses the > size and typecast fields for MALLOC are reversed. This may have been > corrected long since, but thought I would let you know as this was > initially puzzling :). This is probably worth opening a PR on. 8) > 3) I have been going through extreme contortions to maintain state > associated with processes without making any modifications to the base > FreeBSD kernel, and keeping everything in the lkm. However, this is > getting more and more troublesome, and interfering with the structures, > etc, I have been using. I don't know if there is interest in moving any > of this code into the base FreeBSD distribution (it is currently heavily > un-optimized and highly xperimental), but it would be helpful to add a > field to the proc structure for use by authentication extensions, perhaps > something like this: > > void *p_authdata; /* extended authentication hook */ > > As well as a global indicating whether an lkm has claimed the right to use > the hook yet. Alternatively, some registration system, and arrays or > something, but that is probably overkill. By default, this field would be > zero'd at proc creation, but at_fork/etc routines could fill it in as > desired. I don't know what the architecture mavens would think about this; it does sound like an excellent candidate for a small hashtable or similar for "assorted process-related data". You'd want at least two sets; one in the "zeroed on creation" and one in the "copied on creation" regions. I'm not sure if we have a generic hashtable manager in the kernel yet, but I have heard at different times from several people that have such an anmial available. Argh; more infrastructure. > 4) ENOENT is described all over the place as file-not-found -- is there an > errno return that is meant to be used as a generic "Object not found" that > could be used? "File Not Found" seems like a strange error from perror > when a Coda token cannot be retrieved by a supporting daemon :). You might want to report the reason that the token can't be obtained, rather than the fact that it can't. The reason might be more useful to the user, as well as (maybe!) fitting the "set of all errors" that we have. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 24 22:53:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA26062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:53:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles133.castles.com [208.214.165.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25979 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00260; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806250030.RAA00260@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Chuck Robey cc: Mike Smith , FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: password format In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:24:09 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:30:04 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (if this is -current related, it should have been on -current) > On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > I recently have had an odd thing happened, I rebuilt my system, and all > > > the passwords were suddenly invalidated. The clue I get is from running > > > vipw, where the old passwords (in encrypted format) don't seem to follow > > > any paatern, but the new ones are all prefaced by "$1$". I need to > > > upgrade a machine that has a lot of existing passwords, and I really > > > can't afford to lose them all, so I need to see what happened and avoid > > > it. > > > > You probably built with NOSECURE, and lost your DES libraries. > > Didn't do NOSECURE. Might have lost the DES libs .... yeah, they're in > /usr/lib, but not /usr/lib/aout. I didn't have MAKE_EBONES defined, > could that have done it? Otherwise, I've checked my make.conf > carefully, there's nothing about crypto defined, so should I add some > define to it? I seem to recall you rooting around with your runtime linker environment. I suspect that this falls into the category of "collateral damage". The issue with your password files has to do with which crypt library is being used by default vs. which one(s) is/are installed. You'll have to work out what's going on beyond that yourself, I'm afraid. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 01:06:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16786 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:06:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xena.mindspring.com (xena.mindspring.com [207.69.142.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16721 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:06:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsanders@xena.mindspring.com) Received: (from rsanders@localhost) by xena.mindspring.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id EAA03594; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 04:06:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Sanders To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING References: <199806240811.BAA21542@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 25 Jun 1998 04:06:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:11:25 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 23 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.11/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > You didn't try very hard at Sprint: Vadim Antonov works there as a > network engineer. Not for quite a while now. He's now working for Pluris, a terabit router startup, and his ex-comrade-in-arms Sean Doran is now working for EBone, a European Internet backbone organization with an interesting philosophy of no overselling. Those were certainly the biggest clueholders at Sprint, but there must be several others still running the show. BBN Planet understood our MBONE request with no trouble. UUnet not only offers MBONE service, they can carry it natively over their dialups (with Ascend's admittedly hackish "I'm not a multicast router, I'm a proxy" technique). I don't see much value for the end-user in enabling MROUTING by default. Anybody who's going to set up mrouted, terminate a tunnel, and do whatever she needs to handle native multicast on her own network should be able to handle a simple kernel compile. People who just need a multicast client have one in FreeBSD right out of the box. regards, -- Robert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 01:41:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21935 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:41:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp [202.239.16.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21914 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:41:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junichi@astec.co.jp) Received: from amont.astec.co.jp (amont.astec.co.jp [172.20.10.1]) by tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6W-astecMX2.3) with ESMTP id RAA16948 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:41:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from sakura.astec.co.jp (sakura.astec.co.jp [172.20.10.61]) by amont.astec.co.jp (8.7.6/3.6W-astecMX2.4) with SMTP id RAA24645 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:41:20 +0900 (JST) Received: (from junichi@localhost) by sakura.astec.co.jp (SMI-8.6/3.5W-astec-sol2.5) id RAA15390; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:41:19 +0900 Message-Id: <199806250841.RAA15390@sakura.astec.co.jp> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New wfd driver. X-Mailer: Mew version 1.06 on Emacs 19.34.1, Mule 2.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:41:19 +0900 From: Satoh Junichi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've updated the ATAPI LS-120/ZIP (wfd) driver and made a tool to control it, format, write/read protect and get status. Bug fix and new functions: . Add dsgone() . Correct ZIP probing messages. . Support lowlevel format (add ioctl). . Add ioctl to control protects, write and read/write, on ZIP. . Add ioctl to get drive status. The driver and the tool(wfdcontrol) are available from http://www.jp.freebsd.org/~junichi Now, there is only for FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE. I'll make it for FreeBSD 3.0-current in some days. Please test it and report to me who has ATAPI LS-120 or ZIP drive. To: Mike Smith The data sheet you give me is very useful. Thank you. --- Junichi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 01:49:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23243 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:49:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA23233 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:49:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id SAA00608; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:21:09 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980625182109.D356@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:21:09 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Eivind Eklund , dyson@iquest.net, David Kelly Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD 4.0 (was: Here is what I promised :-)) References: <199806230204.VAA10715@nospam.hiwaay.net> <199806231756.MAA19966@dyson.iquest.net> <19980624034151.12579@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980624034151.12579@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Wed, Jun 24, 1998 at 03:41:51AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 24 June 1998 at 3:41:51 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 12:56:14PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: >> David Kelly said: >>> "John S. Dyson" writes: >>>> Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav said: >>>>> I'm holding my breath until you tell us the name of the project you're >>>>> working on :) >>>>> >>>> The name "G2" was suggested, so that is the codename for now. It >>>> kind-of means "Generation 2". >>> >>> You're not going to call it, "FreeBSD 4.0"? ;-) >>> >> No, and in fact, BSD apparently won't be in the name at all. There >> are both legal and technical reasons why it won't be there. There >> will be code of BSD heritage in the kernel, and some code with BSD >> heritage in userland. It won't have the (non-threaded) structure >> of a BSD kernel, but likely will have many of the same pieces, in >> one form or another. >> >> Note that I am not in the "naming", "infrastructure" or "interface >> with other organizations or groups" department on the project. :-). > > However, I seem to be, so I'll present a picture of that side of it: > > John says categorically "no" to it being called FreeBSD 4.0. This > isn't something I'd do - this is an open option, but one which I don't > consider too likely. I would consider it rude in the extreme to use somebody else's name for your new product. I can understand why John is so emphatic. The software may be free, but the name has certain bindings. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 02:11:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27292 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27268 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:11:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA15969; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:11:24 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA29661; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:11:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980625111122.33234@follo.net> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:11:22 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Greg Lehey , dyson@iquest.net, David Kelly Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.0 (was: Here is what I promised :-)) References: <199806230204.VAA10715@nospam.hiwaay.net> <199806231756.MAA19966@dyson.iquest.net> <19980624034151.12579@follo.net> <19980625182109.D356@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980625182109.D356@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 06:21:09PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 06:21:09PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > > John says categorically "no" to it being called FreeBSD 4.0. This > > isn't something I'd do - this is an open option, but one which I don't > > consider too likely. > > I would consider it rude in the extreme to use somebody else's name > for your new product. I can understand why John is so emphatic. The > software may be free, but the name has certain bindings. You're misunderstanding me, I think. I'm saying that the software will be available for FreeBSD to adopt if the FreeBSD project at some time consider it a better solution than continuing from the then-present FreeBSD kernel codebase (or they can adopt core parts of the G2 kernel and re-intergrate the non-core parts against that, or whatever) then that is an option that will be available. I'm _not_ suggesting that the "G2 project" will call G2 "FreeBSD 4.0". What is called "FreeBSD x.x" is up to The FreeBSD Project and FreeBSD, Inc (which one would hope will stay in synch on the matter :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 04:59:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 04:59:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22049 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 04:58:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from xcejka00@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.51]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA05786 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:58:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.52]) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18669 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:58:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from xcejka00@localhost) by sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA24105 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:58:47 GMT Message-Id: <199806251158.LAA24105@sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> Subject: Re: FreeBSD faster than light? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:58:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: Cejka Rudolf X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey writes: > Can anybody explain why I'm using up a total of about 1.5 seconds of > CPU time in the following examples? This is a single CPU machine (AMD > K6/233) running -CURRENT as of the end of last month. The figures > seem surprisingly consistent. > > === grog@freebie (/dev/ttyp1) ~ 9 -> time l -rt Mail|wc > 3460 31133 192864 > > real 0m0.517s > user 0m1.230s > sys 0m0.270s Hmm. It looks like as bash and its bug (I think). Internal command "time" in bash gives bad results (typically: user + sys > real). I even saw "user 0m:.230s" or so (with colon :-(((((((((((). Use "/usr/bin/time" instead - it gives better results... It is not problem on FreeBSD - I saw it on Linux too. Hey, I wrote bug report to bash developers after 2.0.1 release. But till now - no reply, no change. Send bug report to them too and wait... Or try to find bug (?). Good luck! (Grr. In "unzip -X ..." is bug too - do you know about this? :-) I have patch, but zip developers are the same as bash developers... Grr.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rudolf Cejka E-mail: xcejka00@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz Technical University of Brno, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 05:41:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29203 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 05:41:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA29185 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 05:41:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA23233; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:41:43 -0400 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:41:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Open Systems Networking cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > > MCI knows what an MBONE feed is. I believe the address you need for MCI > > is mbone@internetmci.com. They used to offer this free to high bandwidth > > clients. I don't know if it's still free or not. > > Yes i know THEY do, but try telling a local MCI geek what needs to be > done. If you go through the proper channels at MCI, you never have to deal with the local geeks. Come on Chris, we both dealt with getting mbone from MCI in the past when you were still at webspan, and I was handling inna.net. You just put a request in, and the nice wo/man with the multicast clue calls you and asks you a few basic questions, tells you what they need for you to do on your end, and blammo, instant mbone. Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 06:11:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05489 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:11:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.ny.otec.com (bright.ny.otec.com [209.3.16.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05459 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:11:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.ny.otec.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA14812; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:11:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.ny.otec.com: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:11:55 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.ny.otec.com To: Benjamin Greenwald cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of new VX driver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i would like to beta test this driver if possible, we have a lot of 905b cards here at work and i've had to go to a yucky tulip based thingy. i would like to be at 100mbps :) can i download the files anywhere? thank you, -Alfred On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Benjamin Greenwald wrote: > Several people have asked about my new VX driver, so I thought I'd give > everyone a quick update. > > The driver for the 3Com 59x, 90xA and 90xB, minus some important but not > critical features, is almost written and will be nearly complete later > this evening. I have someone who is going to alpha test the driver over > the next week, and I plan to start a general beta test the second week in > July. > > If there are any questions, please send them directly to me and in the > next 16 hours. I'm going to be in Barcelona for the International > Symposium on Computer Architecture until July 3rd and will be otherwise > completely unreachable until then. > > Thanks for everyone's support, interest, and patience. > > -Ben Greenwald > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 06:46:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10307 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:46:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic20.pm04.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA10301; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:46:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id GAA24812; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980625064642.A24706@mooseriver.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:46:42 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 2.2.6-stable build is broken Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Did a cvsup last night and started a build. Woke up to this : ----------------CUT HERE-----------CAT HAIR----------CANT HEAR------------- ===> usr.bin/vmstat --- lkm.depend__D --- --- bpfilter.h --- --- ppp.h --- --- bpfilter.h --- echo "#define NBPFILTER 0" > bpfilter.h --- ppp.h --- echo "#define NPPP 2" > ppp.h --- usr.bin.depend__D --- --- .depend --- rm -f .depend mkdep -f .depend -a -I/usr/src/usr.bin/vmstat/../../sys -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include /usr/src/usr.bin/vmstat/vmstat.c --- lkm.depend__D --- --- .depend --- rm -f .depend mkdep -f .depend -a -I. -DINET -DKERNEL -DACTUALLY_LKM_NOT_KERNEL -I/usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -DPSEUDO_LKM /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/bsd_comp.c /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/if_ppp.c /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/ppp_tty.c /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/slcompress.c /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/if_ppp.c:79: opt_ppp.h: No such file or directory /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/ppp_tty.c:78: opt_ppp.h: No such file or directory mkdep: compile failed *** Error code 1 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error real 218m45.648s user 74m55.994s sys 26m25.520s ----------------CUT HERE-----------CAT HAIR----------CANT HEAR------------- -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 07:03:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12245 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:03:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12227 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA27428; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806251414.KAA27428@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:12:04 -0400 To: Eivind Eklund , Greg Lehey , dyson@iquest.net, David Kelly From: Dennis Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.0 (was: Here is what I promised :-)) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980625111122.33234@follo.net> References: <19980625182109.D356@freebie.lemis.com> <199806230204.VAA10715@nospam.hiwaay.net> <199806231756.MAA19966@dyson.iquest.net> <19980624034151.12579@follo.net> <19980625182109.D356@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:11 AM 6/25/98 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: >On Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 06:21:09PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> > John says categorically "no" to it being called FreeBSD 4.0. This >> > isn't something I'd do - this is an open option, but one which I don't >> > consider too likely. How about Freebsd '98? :-) db To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 07:24:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA15041 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:24:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tim.xenologics.com (tim.xenologics.com [194.77.5.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA15029 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:24:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seggers@semyam.dinoco.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tim.xenologics.com (8.8.5/8.8.8) with UUCP id QAA18466; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:19:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by semyam.dinoco.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00732; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:11:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from seggers@semyam.dinoco.de) Message-Id: <199806250711.JAA00732@semyam.dinoco.de> To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD Hackers , seggers@semyam.dinoco.de Subject: Re: FreeBSD faster than light? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:50:18 +0930." <19980624165018.H5023@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:11:28 +0200 From: Stefan Eggers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Can anybody explain why I'm using up a total of about 1.5 seconds of > CPU time in the following examples? This is a single CPU machine (AMD I have an even more interesting result I think. > === grog@freebie (/dev/ttyp1) ~ 9 -> time l -rt Mail|wc > 3460 31133 192864 > > real 0m0.517s > user 0m1.230s > sys 0m0.270s I tried this: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- /usr/home/seggers 538$ time ls -lLtr Mail|wc 44 389 2588 real 0m0.060s user 0m0.026s sys 0m0.016s /usr/home/seggers 539$ time ls -lLtr Mail|wc 44 389 2588 real 0m0.060s user 0m1.007s sys 0m0.035s ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using bash 2.0.x on FreeBSD 2.2-stable from last weekend for this. It can't even decide how long it wants to take! As I thought it might be an effect of running multi user with alot of daemons I did it again single user and the result was the same. I found no pattern in it. Funny. I now can't get it to take long again. And once it used no user time at all. The latter at least one can explain. Some time inaccuracy due to rounding somewhere. But what in hades causes the additional second? Stefan. -- Stefan Eggers Lu4 yao2 zhi1 ma3 li4, Max-Slevogt-Str. 1 ri4 jiu3 jian4 ren2 xin1. 51109 Koeln Federal Republic of Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 07:37:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17221 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:37:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from plains.NoDak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17214 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:37:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.NoDak.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18426; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:37:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:37:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199806251437.JAA18426@plains.NoDak.edu> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: option MROUTING Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The first step for wider MBONE deployment is for the PCs > whether they run Unix or WinXX is for them to be MBONE capable > by clueless users . The server side (mrouted) you are correct > in that the users usually have the sufficient expertise however > on the client side it is an entirely different matter. that is why we make web pages explaining the concepts, how to configure, and how the applications work. my MBONE web pages are my only pages people read (sniff, sniff). I predict the success of the MBONE will be its downfall. once the masses start to use it in its current form, it will be saturated with lowest common demoninator content. Be prepared to supplementing your income by putting up your own "Jenny Cam" on the MBONE. I hope it turns into more of a campus-wide and/or national/international somewhat restricted one to many environment (example NASA broadcasts) rather than uncontrolled international many to many (example Places Around the World). --mark. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 07:52:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20453 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:52:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from main_sd1.artnetonline.com ([194.75.26.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA20399 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:52:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuehl@lgk.de) Received: from di-010.hamburg.dialin-gw.net (di-010.hamburg.dialin-gw.net [195.90.225.10]) by main_sd1.artnetonline.com (NTMail 3.03.0013/1.abqk) with ESMTP id ra750949 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:51:38 +0200 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <21662.898726572@time.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:53:09 +0200 (CEST) Reply-To: kuehl@lgk.de From: Lars Gerhard Kuehl To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: PCVT's death Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hm@kts.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24-Jun-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Søren Schmidt wrote: >> >> > Well, just tell us when you are ready then, but don't expect the world >> > to stand still inbetween.. >> >> I really hope someone will be there to prevent you from removing pcvt in the >> meantime, yes. > > Boys! Boys! What is it with Danes and Germans? One would figure > they'd learned to get along by now - it's been hundreds of years since > the last conflict, at least! :-) No, hundred and thirty two to be exact. And Hellmuth still lives in former Dannish territory. :-) Peacefully Lars /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Lars Gerhard Kuehl Phon: +49 40 54768010 Mobile: +49 171 9307085 Fax : +49 40 54768012 Email : kuehl@lgk.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 09:17:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03698 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:17:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03690 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:17:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id MAA02186 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:17:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Packet Engine Gigabit Ethernet driver... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I hunted down the driver for the packetengine gigbit ethernet driver: http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Projects/Gigabit/drivers/PacketEngines.html It's for 2.2.2 so if anyone wants to bring it up to speed its sitting there all alone... by itself.. lonely... wishing it had a home Chris -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 09:47:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08045 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:47:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07984; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:47:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (tao.tera.com [207.108.223.55]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29510; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id JAA12633; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:46:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199806251646.JAA12633@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: from Lars Gerhard Kuehl at "Jun 25, 98 04:53:09 pm" To: kuehl@lgk.de Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hm@kts.org Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Lars Gerhard Kuehl: > > On 24-Jun-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> Søren Schmidt wrote: > >> > >> > Well, just tell us when you are ready then, but don't expect the world > >> > to stand still inbetween.. > >> > >> I really hope someone will be there to prevent you from removing pcvt in the > >> meantime, yes. > > > > Boys! Boys! What is it with Danes and Germans? One would figure > > they'd learned to get along by now - it's been hundreds of years since > > the last conflict, at least! :-) > > No, hundred and thirty two to be exact. And Hellmuth still lives in former > Dannish territory. :-) > > Peacefully > > Lars > Reminds me of when I was in the 8th grade and some American Civil War vets were still alive. Our history class wrote to one gentleman and I asked the teacher how to spell ____. ``Gary!'' he said, "are you trying to trying to provoke another Civil War or what?!'' hmm. gary > -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 09:54:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09438 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.numachi.com (numachi.numachi.com [198.175.254.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA09402 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:54:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reichert@numachi.numachi.COM) Received: (qmail 28753 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Jun 1998 16:54:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19980625125431.A28673@numachi.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:54:32 -0400 From: Brian Reichert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD faster than light? References: <19980624165018.H5023@freebie.lemis.com> <199806250711.JAA00732@semyam.dinoco.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91i In-Reply-To: <199806250711.JAA00732@semyam.dinoco.de>; from Stefan Eggers on Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 09:11:28AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 09:11:28AM +0200, Stefan Eggers wrote: > I am using bash 2.0.x on FreeBSD 2.2-stable from last weekend for > this. It can't even decide how long it wants to take! > > As I thought it might be an effect of running multi user with alot of > daemons I did it again single user and the result was the same. I > found no pattern in it. > > Funny. I now can't get it to take long again. And once it used no > user time at all. The latter at least one can explain. Some time > inaccuracy due to rounding somewhere. But what in hades causes the > additional second? If I had to guess, this might have to be that on the first pass, a shared library had to be loaded, and on the second pass, it was already present, hence things were quicker... > Stefan. > -- > Stefan Eggers Lu4 yao2 zhi1 ma3 li4, > Max-Slevogt-Str. 1 ri4 jiu3 jian4 ren2 xin1. > 51109 Koeln > Federal Republic of Germany -- Brian Reichert reichert@numachi.com 37 Crystal Ave. #303 Current daytime number: (617)-873-4337 Derry NH 03038-1713 USA Intel architecture: the left-hand path To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 10:06:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12371 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:06:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from math.gatech.edu (root@math.gatech.edu [130.207.146.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12355 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:06:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from coleman@math.gatech.edu) Received: from math.gatech.edu (coleman@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by math.gatech.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04527; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806251704.NAA04527@math.gatech.edu> To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: Message from Chet Ramey of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:30:56 EDT." <980624213056.AA12305.SM@nike.ins.cwru.edu> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:04:43 -0400 From: Richard Coleman Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'd like to see zsh pushed for inclusion into the contrib tree; it's small, > > beautiful, and inclusive (in that it understands a fair amount of csh as > > well as sh syntax). > > Wow. This is the first time I've ever heard zsh described as `small' > and `beautiful'. (FWIW, I don't think I'd describe bash that way, > either, no matter how drunk I was.) zsh and bash are pretty large, as shell go. I haven't counted recently, but I remember that zsh had about 10 times the lines of code as the shell `rc'. I think bash is about the same. Also, the code in zsh, is a monument to hacking. The code is almost unpenetrable in some places. That's primarily due to the command line completion (it's very hard to get the amount of context sensitivity that zsh has). -- Richard Coleman (former maintainer of zsh) coleman@math.gatech.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 10:36:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18680 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:36:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.venus.net (ns1.venus.net [205.243.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18571; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:35:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from leclaire@sprintmail.com) Received: from farout ([205.243.75.15]) by ns1.venus.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA11322; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:35:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:35:23 -0500 (EST) From: Andre LeClaire To: Josef Grosch cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6-stable build is broken In-Reply-To: <19980625064642.A24706@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The same thing happened here, but it was fixed overnight. Another cvsup this morning took care of it. Andre > Did a cvsup last night and started a build. Woke up to this : > > ----------------CUT HERE-----------CAT HAIR----------CANT HEAR------------- > > ===> usr.bin/vmstat > --- lkm.depend__D --- > --- bpfilter.h --- > --- ppp.h --- > --- bpfilter.h --- > echo "#define NBPFILTER 0" > bpfilter.h > --- ppp.h --- > echo "#define NPPP 2" > ppp.h > --- usr.bin.depend__D --- > --- .depend --- > rm -f .depend > mkdep -f .depend -a -I/usr/src/usr.bin/vmstat/../../sys -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include /usr/src/usr.bin/vmstat/vmstat.c > --- lkm.depend__D --- > --- .depend --- > rm -f .depend > mkdep -f .depend -a -I. -DINET -DKERNEL -DACTUALLY_LKM_NOT_KERNEL -I/usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -DPSEUDO_LKM /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/bsd_comp.c /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/if_ppp.c /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/ppp_tty.c /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/slcompress.c > /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/if_ppp.c:79: opt_ppp.h: No such file or directory > /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/ppp_tty.c:78: opt_ppp.h: No such file or directory > mkdep: compile failed > *** Error code 1 > 1 error > *** Error code 2 > 1 error > *** Error code 2 > 1 error > *** Error code 2 > 1 error > *** Error code 2 > 1 error > > real 218m45.648s > user 74m55.994s > sys 26m25.520s > > ----------------CUT HERE-----------CAT HAIR----------CANT HEAR------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 10:50:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21049 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:50:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles310.castles.com [208.214.167.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20927 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:50:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03480; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806251618.JAA03480@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Benjamin Greenwald , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of new VX driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:11:55 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:18:43 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > i would like to beta test this driver if possible, we have a lot of 905b > cards here at work and i've had to go to a yucky tulip based thingy. > > i would like to be at 100mbps :) You should have bought EtherExpress Pro's instead, either the first or second time around. 8) >From what Donald Becker has said about the 905's, you may still want to do that.... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 11:08:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24028 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.ny.otec.com (bright.ny.otec.com [209.3.16.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24003 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:08:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.ny.otec.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA06966; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:07:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.ny.otec.com: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:07:52 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.ny.otec.com To: Mike Smith cc: Benjamin Greenwald , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of new VX driver In-Reply-To: <199806251618.JAA03480@antipodes.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hehe, not my fault, thrust into a workplace where everyone runs linux, they didn't realize what kinda hardware they have. my "stock" pc came with: pnp soundcard -> (kissing Luigi's feet right now, thank you! driver kicks butt!) atapi cdrom and ide harddrive EWWWWW.... and that icky 905b card.... heh, be careful when you buy Dell folks :) nice monitors though. actually kinda fast machine, just "sorta" budget equipment. oh and another affliction... we are planning to go to NIS+ and i'm quite sure freebsd doesn't have client support yet... hmmm... maybe i could convince them to let me be the NIS master on my 10bT card :) *sigh* -Alfred On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > i would like to beta test this driver if possible, we have a lot of 905b > > cards here at work and i've had to go to a yucky tulip based thingy. > > > > i would like to be at 100mbps :) > > You should have bought EtherExpress Pro's instead, either the first or > second time around. 8) > > >From what Donald Becker has said about the 905's, you may still want to > do that.... > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 12:54:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14998 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:54:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dot.twiddle.com (Dot.Twiddle.COM [169.131.3.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14876 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:53:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from J.Hogeveen@twiddle.com) Received: from jh (helo=localhost) by dot.twiddle.com with local-smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org id 0ypI2z-0003NE-00; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:51:05 +0200 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:51:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Jeroen Hogeveen To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Signal-11 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, just one quick question. sorry to ask it here, but response on -questions is 0,0. Has anyone had experiences regarding sig11's like these? .map\" -O -pipe -I/usr/local/include log-server.c gcc: Internal compiler error: program as got fatal signal 11 *** Error code 1 Sig-11 indicates a SIGSEV - segmentation violation as far as I know. Does this mean my memory (configuration) is bad or that my CPU is overheated? TIA! ~ Jeroen Hogeveen // *BSD UNIX; For powerful, stable, efficient serving jh@twiddle.com // Free x86-BSD @ http://www.freebsd.org/ Any opinions expressed herein are not those of present nor past employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 14:03:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26020 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:03:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25887 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:02:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA16869; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:00:14 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3592BA54.9A3CA8EF@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:00:05 +0300 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Organization: GlavAPU X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Hogeveen CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signal-11 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeroen Hogeveen wrote: > hi, just one quick question. sorry to ask it here, but response on > -questions is 0,0. > > Has anyone had experiences regarding sig11's like these? > .map\" -O -pipe -I/usr/local/include log-server.c > gcc: Internal compiler error: program as got fatal signal 11 > *** Error code 1 > > Sig-11 indicates a SIGSEV - segmentation violation as far as I know. > Does this mean my memory (configuration) is bad or that my CPU is > overheated? > You can check this, by doing make (or compiling) again and again. If this error is reprodusable, than it is gcc error (gcc is very buggy), otherwise --- memory error. > TIA! > > ~ > Jeroen Hogeveen // *BSD UNIX; For powerful, stable, efficient serving > jh@twiddle.com // Free x86-BSD @ http://www.freebsd.org/ > > Any opinions expressed herein are not those of present nor past employers. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA CORBA in Ukraine ? ex-USSR: http://www.corbadev.kiev.ua To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 14:27:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29590 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:27:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terror.hungry.com (qmailr@terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA29535 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:27:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fn@hungry.com) Received: (qmail 417 invoked by uid 507); 25 Jun 1998 21:27:26 -0000 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VT100 (was: PCVT's death) References: <19980624142512.C5023@freebie.lemis.com> From: Faried Nawaz Date: 25 Jun 1998 14:27:24 -0700 In-Reply-To: freebsd@atipa.com's message of 25 Jun 1998 09:45:58 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.16 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG freebsd@atipa.com (Atipa) writes: MS's default terminal is an ansi emulation. cons25 is always a pain in the rear to me when I need to work on remote aix/solaris/hpux, and the closest they have is vt100. Any workaround? Whenever I've had to telnet to HP-UX boxes from a virtual console, I've set TERM to ansi and made sure the tty speed (as reported by stty) was correct. It's worked okay for most apps. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 14:40:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01772 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tarsier.ca.sandia.gov (tarsier.ca.sandia.gov [146.246.246.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01608 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:39:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cc@tarsier.ca.sandia.gov) Received: from tarsier.ca.sandia.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tarsier.ca.sandia.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08006; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:37:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cc@tarsier.ca.sandia.gov) Message-Id: <199806252137.OAA08006@tarsier.ca.sandia.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Open Systems Networking cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Packet Engine Gigabit Ethernet driver... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:17:35 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:37:13 -0700 From: "Chris Csanady" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >I hunted down the driver for the packetengine gigbit ethernet driver: > >http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Projects/Gigabit/drivers/PacketEngines.html > >It's for 2.2.2 so if anyone wants to bring it up to speed its sitting >there all alone... by itself.. lonely... wishing it had a home It has a home. :) It is not really ready for prime time though. I have not done any work on it for quite a while. Packet Engines has recently released its second generation board, the G-NIC 2. This board should hopefully fix a number of problems that the original had, although will require reworking a lot of the driver. I have a pair of these in hand, and will work on it when I have the docs. Chris Csanady To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 16:03:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17264 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA17141 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:02:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 23465 invoked by uid 1017); 25 Jun 1998 21:59:30 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:59:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Mike Smith , Benjamin Greenwald , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of new VX driver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > atapi cdrom and ide harddrive EWWWWW.... hey, ultra DMA drives are really nice these days, and not nearly as noisy. > and that icky 905b card.... disgusting. I do not know if they changed the card recently, but I have about 25 of those cards right now that don't work for beans. They ifconfig fine (under Linux, BSD, and 95), and everthing thinks they are fine, including the 3Com diagnostic software. But none of them will ping. I get no activity on the cards or on the hubs. We are dropping theses from our pricelist, and will be be replacing them w/ Etherexpress Pros. > heh, be careful when you buy Dell folks :) Wasn't there some Dell/3Com fiasco that resulted in speculations about market share and profit that took down both their stock prices? Can't remember the details... > oh and another affliction... we are planning to go to NIS+ and i'm quite > sure freebsd doesn't have client support yet... hmmm... maybe i could > convince them to let me be the NIS master on my 10bT card :) There is work underway on -CURRENT for this, but I do not think it is currently usable. Ask wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) for an update. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 16:10:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18771 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:10:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.ny.otec.com (bright.ny.otec.com [209.3.16.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18615 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:09:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.ny.otec.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA07699 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:09:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.ny.otec.com: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:09:38 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.ny.otec.com To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of new VX driver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > atapi cdrom and ide harddrive EWWWWW.... > hey, ultra DMA drives are really nice these days, and not nearly as noisy. c'mon... say it.. SCUUUUUZI! :) it just feels better don't it? :) > > and that icky 905b card.... > disgusting. I do not know if they changed the card recently, but I have > about 25 of those cards right now that don't work for beans. > > They ifconfig fine (under Linux, BSD, and 95), and everthing thinks they > are fine, including the 3Com diagnostic software. But none of them will > ping. I get no activity on the cards or on the hubs. now, that's odd, all the linux boxen here at work are fine at 100mbps, maybe you have them set in some bad mode, or mismatched settings on the hubs? i don't know much about the stuff, but i know they work on the linux boxes. > We are dropping theses from our pricelist, and will be be replacing them > w/ Etherexpress Pros. > > > heh, be careful when you buy Dell folks :) > > Wasn't there some Dell/3Com fiasco that resulted in speculations about > market share and profit that took down both their stock prices? Can't > remember the details... i just don't trust non home built PCs, you can never exactly what hardware you want/need on them. home grown is much better, and fun. > > oh and another affliction... we are planning to go to NIS+ and i'm quite > > sure freebsd doesn't have client support yet... hmmm... maybe i could > > convince them to let me be the NIS master on my 10bT card :) > There is work underway on -CURRENT for this, but I do not think it is > currently usable. Ask wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) for an > update. i'm going to, didn't want to bug him, be he did say he was close to being done several months ago on the lists. thank you, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 16:12:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19219 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:12:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (root@mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19061 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-49.camalott.com [208.229.74.49] (may be forged)) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05813; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:10:47 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07938; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:11:11 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:11:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806252311.SAA07938@detlev.UUCP> To: tlambert@primenet.com CC: lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org, jamie@itribe.net, opsys@mail.webspan.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199806242119.OAA16406@usr04.primenet.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:19:44 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: option MROUTING From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199806242119.OAA16406@usr04.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Maybe I'm a bit dense, but I could never figure out where ISP's get off >> trying to charge me for something that *reduces* their infrastructure >> costs. Unless, maybe, they charge by the packet/byte and actually *want* >> all those redundent unicast streams running up the meter :-( > They are not charging for bandwidth usage. Charging for usage is > quickly becoming computationationally hard (yea!). > They are charging for having to hire soemone with more than an > associates degree in CS from a community college; someone who > didn't just go through the motions in college to get their "union > card". I would have guessed that they are charging on general "neat new technology" principles. Price is frequently unrelated to cost. -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 16:27:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21751 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:27:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (root@mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21656 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:26:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-49.camalott.com [208.229.74.49] (may be forged)) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06758; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:26:14 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07983; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:26:22 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:26:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806252326.SAA07983@detlev.UUCP> To: J.Hogeveen@twiddle.com CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Jeroen Hogeveen on Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:51:05 +0200 (CEST)) Subject: Re: Signal-11 From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > hi, just one quick question. sorry to ask it here, but response on > -questions is 0,0. > Has anyone had experiences regarding sig11's like these? > .map\" -O -pipe -I/usr/local/include log-server.c > gcc: Internal compiler error: program as got fatal signal 11 > *** Error code 1 > Sig-11 indicates a SIGSEV - segmentation violation as far as I know. > Does this mean my memory (configuration) is bad or that my CPU is > overheated? Check for reproducability. If it's easily reproducable, then it is probably a bug in gcc. These frequently will apply only to particular sequences of C statements. I would suggest finding which function the failure occours in (by using #if 0 / #endif to generate a binary search), then narrow it to a small bit of code. That code may be rewritten to avoid the bug. If you are using gcc 2.8.1, then it would be nice to send in a bug report to bug-gcc@gnu.org with the snippet of code. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 16:36:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23521 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:36:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23268 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:34:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id JAA21743; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:06:23 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980626090622.X356@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:06:22 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brian Reichert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD faster than light? References: <19980624165018.H5023@freebie.lemis.com> <199806250711.JAA00732@semyam.dinoco.de> <19980625125431.A28673@numachi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980625125431.A28673@numachi.com>; from Brian Reichert on Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:54:32PM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 25 June 1998 at 12:54:32 -0400, Brian Reichert wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 09:11:28AM +0200, Stefan Eggers wrote: >> I am using bash 2.0.x on FreeBSD 2.2-stable from last weekend for >> this. It can't even decide how long it wants to take! >> >> As I thought it might be an effect of running multi user with alot of >> daemons I did it again single user and the result was the same. I >> found no pattern in it. >> >> Funny. I now can't get it to take long again. And once it used no >> user time at all. The latter at least one can explain. Some time >> inaccuracy due to rounding somewhere. But what in hades causes the >> additional second? > > If I had to guess, this might have to be that on the first pass, > a shared library had to be loaded, and on the second pass, it was > already present, hence things were quicker... In my example, it was repeatable. I can't repeat it any more, though. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 16:37:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23773 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:37:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23644 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:36:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id JAA21756; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:08:05 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980626090805.Y356@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:08:05 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Eivind Eklund , dyson@iquest.net, David Kelly Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.0 (was: Here is what I promised :-)) References: <199806230204.VAA10715@nospam.hiwaay.net> <199806231756.MAA19966@dyson.iquest.net> <19980624034151.12579@follo.net> <19980625182109.D356@freebie.lemis.com> <19980625111122.33234@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980625111122.33234@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:11:22AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 25 June 1998 at 11:11:22 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 06:21:09PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> John says categorically "no" to it being called FreeBSD 4.0. This >>> isn't something I'd do - this is an open option, but one which I don't >>> consider too likely. >> >> I would consider it rude in the extreme to use somebody else's name >> for your new product. I can understand why John is so emphatic. The >> software may be free, but the name has certain bindings. > > You're misunderstanding me, I think. I'm saying that the software > will be available for FreeBSD to adopt if the FreeBSD project at some > time consider it a better solution than continuing from the > then-present FreeBSD kernel codebase (or they can adopt core parts > of the G2 kernel and re-intergrate the non-core parts against that, or > whatever) then that is an option that will be available. Indeed, that's not what I understood. I don't have any problem with what you describe now. > I'm _not_ suggesting that the "G2 project" will call G2 "FreeBSD 4.0". > What is called "FreeBSD x.x" is up to The FreeBSD Project and FreeBSD, > Inc (which one would hope will stay in synch on the matter :-) Right. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 20:37:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25361 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:37:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25347 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:37:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-123.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.123]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA17631; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:37:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12310; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:15:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199806260315.WAA12310@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: Eivind Eklund , dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.0 (was: Here is what I promised :-)) In-reply-to: Message from Greg Lehey of "Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:21:09 +0930." <19980625182109.D356@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:15:48 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id UAA25352 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey writes: > On Wednesday, 24 June 1998 at 3:41:51 +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 23, 1998 at 12:56:14PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > >> David Kelly said: [...] > >>> > >>> You're not going to call it, "FreeBSD 4.0"? ;-) > >>> > >> No, and in fact, BSD apparently won't be in the name at all. There [...] > > John says categorically "no" to it being called FreeBSD 4.0. This > > isn't something I'd do - this is an open option, but one which I don't > > consider too likely. > > I would consider it rude in the extreme to use somebody else's name > for your new product. I can understand why John is so emphatic. The > software may be free, but the name has certain bindings. I didn't mean to create such a stir. And certainly didn't mean that somebody should run off with anybody's name. My actual intent was to suggest G2 could be a source of good ideas for FreeBSD's future or may even be FreeBSD's future. Apparently others had that idea too. Now that a possible link between G2 and FreeBSD has mind share, its time to back off and see what happens. Wouldn't want to interfere with the release of FreeBSD 3.0. :-) As to the name G2, the current crop of PowerPC chips are known as G3, the forthcoming crop as G4. Might want to think about namespace collisions. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 20:38:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25448 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:38:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25389 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:37:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-123.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.123]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA17639; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:37:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12008; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:49:32 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199806260249.VAA12008@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Andre Albsmeier cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: opt_ppp.h In-reply-to: Message from Andre Albsmeier of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:27:09 +0200." <199806241627.SAA13410@internal> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:49:32 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andre Albsmeier writes: > I think so. But here it fails when compiling the lkm... Here's is > what I have done: > > make depend all install in usr/sbin/config, works I used to "make depend kernel install" to build kernels until someone was kind enough to point out the "make depend" part generated the .depend file but that file wasn't applied to the following targets because the entire Makefile had already been read and make had already made up its mind about dependencies. "make depend && make kernel install" is what I've been using since. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 21:03:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29059 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (jonny@roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29052 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:03:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04829; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 01:03:25 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199806260403.BAA04829@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-Reply-To: <199806240438.GAA03140@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Jun 24, 98 06:38:42 am" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 01:03:25 -0300 (EST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Luigi Rizzo) // From: Luigi Rizzo // Subject: Re: option MROUTING // To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) // Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:38:42 +0200 (MET DST) // Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG // X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG // > > And if someone likes to commit my latest patches to both (PR 6815 and // > > 6816 if i remember well) they will give full duplex support with the // > // > Hmm. No. :-) // > // > If you have more exact PR#'s somewhere, I wouldn't mind giving both // > a look. // // Non-critical problems // // S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description // // o [1998/05/31] ports/6813 fenner patched audio module for vat port Hey, vat stopped compiling after my last cvsup: ... ===> Returning to build of vat-4.0b2 ===> vat-4.0b2 depends on shared library: tk80 - found ===> vat-4.0b2 depends on shared library: gsm - found ===> Patching for vat-4.0b2 ===> Applying FreeBSD patches for vat-4.0b2 1 out of 3 hunks failed--saving rejects to audio-voxware.cc.rej *** Error code 1 ... My system is -stable, reasonably recent. // o [1998/05/31] ports/6814 fenner vic patches for x11 grabber x11 grabber ? Where ? I can see a "still" device. Is this to send files ? Both ports have been changed in my last cvsup. Should these be the differences ? Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 21:32:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02917 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:32:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02908 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:32:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA12195 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:32:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:32:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I really hope -hackers is the best place for this... i didn't want to crosspost. Within the next few months, i will be needing to set up a router for our internal network, tying together 7 networks, with some room to grow. I plan on buying a rather expensive chassis from Industrial Computer source. It has an interesting partially-passive backplane with a PII-233 or faster and chipset mounted on it (LX or BX chipset, I believe) with everything else on a daughtercard and 9PCI/8ISA slots. Something like the model 7520K9-44H-B4 with redundant power supplies. Basically my questions are: 1) Will there be any problems with using three or more host-to-PCI bridges? 2) Will there be any problems using up to 8 Intel Etherexpress Pro 10/100's? If so, can I use a combination of those and some DEC 21[0,1]4[0,1] cards? 3) If i ever end up using natd for all of this, would there be any problems with it servicing those 7 networks (probably max 100 hosts per network)? I initially thought of just getting a nice ATX rackmount case and a nice ASUS motherboard and using some of those ZNYX 4-port fast-ethernet cards. Several reasons why I like the above idea better is because the support for the Intel cards is apparently better, and replacing bad NICs would be simple and inexpensive. If I DO end up going the ZNYX route, are there any known problems with those 4-port cards? I'd need two of them, of course, and the motherboard would most likely have an Intel card built onto it also. Maybe I'll even eventually throw an ETInc sync serial card in there for my T1 and use our Cisco 2514 elsewhere. Other options I would have are either a 8-port or more Cisco router (ugh, expensive), or a 3COM gigabit layer-3 IP switch (THAT would be nice, but the pricetag is in the 5-digit area). I would MUCH rather use a very nice FreeBSD system for this job. By the way, anyone know of any place cheaper than ICS for the components I need? Even just someplace that sells good ATX rackmount cases and power supplies (Jinco maybe)? -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 21:51:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05973 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:51:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA05950; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aw1@titus.stade.co.uk) Received: from (titus.stade.co.uk) [158.152.29.164] by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ypQTy-0006L2-00; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 04:51:31 +0000 Received: (from aw1@localhost) by titus.stade.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.3) id FAA15080; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 05:27:31 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19980626052731.A14216@stade.co.uk> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 05:27:31 +0100 From: Adrian Wontroba To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6-stable build is broken Reply-To: aw1@stade.co.uk Mail-Followup-To: hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org References: <19980625064642.A24706@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980625064642.A24706@mooseriver.com>; from Josef Grosch on Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 06:46:42AM -0700 Organization: Stade Computers Ltd, UK X-Phone: +(44) 121 681 6677 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 06:46:42AM -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: > /usr/src/lkm/if_ppp/../../sys/net/if_ppp.c:79: opt_ppp.h: No such file or directory A message on the cvs-all list shows that Peter has now committed ppp/Makefile in -stable, which should fix this. I'll see if it has when I wake up (8-) -- Adrian Wontroba, Stade Computers Limited. phone: (+44) 121 681 6677 Mail info@accu.org for information about the Association of C and C++ Users or see To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 22:11:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08897 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:11:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08889 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:11:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00621; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:10:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806260510.AAA00621@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.0 (was: Here is what I promised :-)) In-Reply-To: <199806260315.WAA12310@nospam.hiwaay.net> from David Kelly at "Jun 25, 98 10:15:48 pm" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net (David Kelly) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:10:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: grog@lemis.com, eivind@yes.no, dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Kelly said: > > As to the name G2, the current crop of PowerPC chips are known as G3, > the forthcoming crop as G4. Might want to think about namespace > collisions. > "G2" is a project codename. The actual product name is TBD, but it seems that those who know that kind of thing are working and might have some ideas :-). We could call the project "Fred Flintstone" at this point :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 22:26:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA10474 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA10463 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:26:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06599; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806260526.WAA06599@implode.root.com> To: Chris Dillon cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:32:35 CDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:26:23 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Basically my questions are: > >1) Will there be any problems with using three or more host-to-PCI >bridges? > >2) Will there be any problems using up to 8 Intel Etherexpress Pro >10/100's? If so, can I use a combination of those and some DEC >21[0,1]4[0,1] cards? It should work, but I don't know that anyone has actually tried this. >3) If i ever end up using natd for all of this, would there be any >problems with it servicing those 7 networks (probably max 100 hosts per >network)? Don't know the answer to that one. >I initially thought of just getting a nice ATX rackmount case and a nice >ASUS motherboard and using some of those ZNYX 4-port fast-ethernet cards. >Several reasons why I like the above idea better is because the support >for the Intel cards is apparently better, and replacing bad NICs would be >simple and inexpensive. If I DO end up going the ZNYX route, are there >any known problems with those 4-port cards? I'd need two of them, of >course, and the motherboard would most likely have an Intel card built >onto it also. Maybe I'll even eventually throw an ETInc sync serial card >in there for my T1 and use our Cisco 2514 elsewhere. Considering all of the compatibility problems with the 'de' driver, I'd stick with the Intels. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 22:36:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11423 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:36:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA11416 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:36:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 24392 invoked by uid 1017); 26 Jun 1998 04:33:33 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:33:33 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: Chris Dillon cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I really hope -hackers is the best place for this... i didn't want to > crosspost. > > Within the next few months, i will be needing to set up a router for our > internal network, tying together 7 networks, with some room to grow. I > plan on buying a rather expensive chassis from Industrial Computer source. > It has an interesting partially-passive backplane with a PII-233 or faster > and chipset mounted on it (LX or BX chipset, I believe) with everything > else on a daughtercard and 9PCI/8ISA slots. Something like the model > 7520K9-44H-B4 with redundant power supplies. Cool. > Basically my questions are: > > 1) Will there be any problems with using three or more host-to-PCI > bridges? Maybe not in the kernel, but I'd start to worry about saturating your buses. You are really bumping up against some I/O bottlenecks in my estimation. > 2) Will there be any problems using up to 8 Intel Etherexpress Pro > 10/100's? If so, can I use a combination of those and some DEC > 21[0,1]4[0,1] cards? If the answer to question #1 is "No", then the same should be true for question #2. > 3) If i ever end up using natd for all of this, would there be any > problems with it servicing those 7 networks (probably max 100 hosts per > network)? Dunno. Never used natd, but I would not _expect_ any difficulties. > I initially thought of just getting a nice ATX rackmount case and a nice > ASUS motherboard and using some of those ZNYX 4-port fast-ethernet cards. > Several reasons why I like the above idea better is because the support > for the Intel cards is apparently better, and replacing bad NICs would be > simple and inexpensive. If I DO end up going the ZNYX route, are there > any known problems with those 4-port cards? I'd need two of them, of > course, and the motherboard would most likely have an Intel card built > onto it also. Maybe I'll even eventually throw an ETInc sync serial card > in there for my T1 and use our Cisco 2514 elsewhere. Yow. I think you should diversify your services, and spread out the I/O and interfaces over a couple machines. You really don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. Smaller, more digestible chunks would mean cheaper hardware (to the point that your NET would probably be less), less disastrous failures, and fewer bottlenecks related to architecture (PCI, RAM, disk I/O, etc.). > Other options I would have are either a 8-port or more Cisco router (ugh, > expensive), or a 3COM gigabit layer-3 IP switch (THAT would be nice, but > the pricetag is in the 5-digit area). I would MUCH rather use a very nice > FreeBSD system for this job. Or two ? :) > By the way, anyone know of any place cheaper than ICS for the components I > need? Even just someplace that sells good ATX rackmount cases and power > supplies (Jinco maybe)? www.atipa.com :) Regards, Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 25 22:59:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13850 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:59:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from our.domaintje.com (our.domaintje.com [194.178.252.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13833 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:59:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@our.domaintje.com) Received: from our.domaintje.com ([IPv6:::ffff:194.178.252.9] EHLO our.domaintje.com ident: IDENT-NONSENSE [port 59918]) by our.domaintje.com with ESMTP id <7780-176>; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:00:07 +0200 To: Chris Dillon cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:32:35 CDT." Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:59:57 +0200 From: Frank Ederveen Message-Id: <19980626060007Z7780-176+47@our.domaintje.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Within the next few months, i will be needing to set up a router for our internal network, tying together 7 networks, with some room to grow. I plan on buying a rather expensive chassis from Industrial Computer source. It has an interesting partially-passive backplane with a PII-233 or faster and chipset mounted on it (LX or BX chipset, I believe) with everything else on a daughtercard and 9PCI/8ISA slots. Something like the model 7520K9-44H-B4 with redundant power supplies. Hmm.. we have a few bsdi-systems with 5 or 6 ethernet cards in it in several places in our network. This we would not do anymore though. There are no real problems with these machines, but why not get a nice cisco to do your routing? They might be a bit ore expensive but certainly do their job well. Just my 2ct, though, FrankE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 00:47:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26887 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orkan.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA26877 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:47:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by orkan.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02116 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:47:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:47:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: raw devices (min transfer size, detection) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm writing a block repository that does its own caching and makes guarantees with regard to atomicity, for eventual use in the back end of a DBMS. I'm finally at the point of needing to deal with raw devices, and I've run into two problems: 1) I need to know the minimum transfer size for the underlying device so that I can intelligently write only the physical blocks that need written, rather than an entire "logical" block as my code sees the data. I've looked through physio() and friends, and it appears that this information is deriveable from the buf struct that is passed in to physio(). The problem is that this is all done behind the scenes. Can I directly get at this info? I've got a workaround, which involves trying to read 1, 2, 4, ..., 2^n bytes, until the read succeeds. This seems kind of gross though. 2) How can I programmatically (in C) know that a file is a device, and more specifically a raw device? I've browsed a large number of manpages, but I still haven't found the answer. I'll eventually find it, but perhaps someone can point me in the right direction? =) Thanks, Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 02:49:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA11014 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 02:49:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from albert.osu.cz (albert.osu.cz [195.113.106.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA10977 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 02:48:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from belkovic@albert.osu.cz) Received: from localhost (belkovic@localhost) by albert.osu.cz (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA01171 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:49:45 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:49:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: Josef Belkovics To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BROKEN_KEYBOARD_RESET In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My home pc (Cyrix 486DX4) does not a CPU reset via the keyboard controller or via invltbl() (/sys/i386/i386/vm_machdep.c). Is somebody able to say me patch which will reset through bios. Or in some other way. (Don't write - throw it out.) Josef Belkovics To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 05:12:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26651 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 05:12:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyber2.servtech.com (root@cyber2.servtech.com [199.1.22.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26612 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 05:12:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from housley@pr-comm.com) Received: from pr-comm.com (prcomm.roc.servtech.com [204.181.3.14]) by cyber2.servtech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22602; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:12:00 GMT Received: from pr-comm.com (housley@hatchling.int.pr-comm.com [192.168.70.48]) by pr-comm.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27457; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:10:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from housley@pr-comm.com) Message-ID: <35938FD0.1788865F@pr-comm.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:10:56 -0400 From: "James E. Housley" Organization: PR Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: gwstat and xmgr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG gwstat depends on xmgr. xmgr4 can not be fetched from any of the sites listed in the make file. Will this be able to be fixed before the upcoming release of 2.2.7? Jim -- James E. Housley PGP: 1024/03983B4D PR Communications, Inc. 2C 3F 3A 0D A8 D8 C3 13 www.servtech.com/public/pr-comm 7C F0 B5 BF 27 8B 92 FE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 05:12:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26678 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 05:12:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyber2.servtech.com (root@cyber2.servtech.com [199.1.22.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26650; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 05:12:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from housley@pr-comm.com) Received: from pr-comm.com (prcomm.roc.servtech.com [204.181.3.14]) by cyber2.servtech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22603; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:12:00 GMT Received: from pr-comm.com (housley@hatchling.int.pr-comm.com [192.168.70.48]) by pr-comm.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27466; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:11:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from housley@pr-comm.com) Message-ID: <35938F28.CCB79CC8@pr-comm.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:08:08 -0400 From: "James E. Housley" Organization: PR Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jfitz@FreeBSD.ORG CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: p5-Apache Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There is no longer an "apache" directory. What changes need to be done to support apache-1.3.x Jim -- James E. Housley PGP: 1024/03983B4D PR Communications, Inc. 2C 3F 3A 0D A8 D8 C3 13 www.servtech.com/public/pr-comm 7C F0 B5 BF 27 8B 92 FE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 05:36:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29107 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 05:36:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.seidata.com (ns1.seidata.com [208.10.211.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29086; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 05:36:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by ns1.seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA09949; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:37:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:37:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike To: "James E. Housley" cc: jfitz@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: p5-Apache In-Reply-To: <35938F28.CCB79CC8@pr-comm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, James E. Housley wrote: > There is no longer an "apache" directory. What changes need to be done > to support apache-1.3.x Personally, I seem to notice that (in sysinstall) packages come and go. I was trying to install Majordomo the other day (I've noticed this with Apache as well) and it just wasn't there. What I do when this happens is just cd /usr/ports/* and 'make install' the package of my choice. I always just figured new packages were being added and/or old packages were being removed and people had better things to do than update the file that tells sysinstall what's available. :-? -mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 06:35:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA06690 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 06:35:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from brooklyn.slack.net (root@brooklyn.slack.net [206.41.21.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA06685; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 06:35:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrewr@brooklyn.slack.net) Received: from localhost (andrewr@localhost) by brooklyn.slack.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA05984; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:38:33 -0400 (EDT) From: andrewr To: Bill Fenner cc: Nate Lawson , nate@elite.net, julian@whistle.com, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apparent bug in sendto() with raw sockets In-Reply-To: <98Jun25.155535pdt.177515@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Speaking of IP_HDRINCL, after reading raw_ip.c and noticing the protection against spoofing (can't use IP_HDRINCL in certain situations), I started thinking about actually comparing the user dsupplied ip->ip_src with the actual IP address defined for the outgoing interface. While looking for a quick hack to get the interface ip, I was looking through ip_output.c and saw a neat little algo there. While I have not tested this yet, I will in the next couple of days, I figure it should be a pretty fail safe block against spoofing IF AND ONLY IF the user has not created there own data structure, ie. struct raw_pkt_hdr { struct ip ip; struct udphdr udp; } raw_pkt_hdr; This will be an easy work around for the user to spoof packets. In my opinion, while I don't see how it can be done, I believe there should be a way to test for a user defined data structure containing the IP header, etc.. From my speaking with a few FreeBSD kernel developers/hackers this is not possible, and I fully see why it is not.. but, I am just throwing the idea out into the open for all of you to digest. Andrew ***************************************** AWR XNS, Inc. "Drink beer, it will save your life." On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Bill Fenner wrote: > In message <199806252220.PAA28609@almond.elite.net> you write: > >I know that 2.0.5R behaved the way that OpenBSD and Linux behave. Were there > >any complaints or problems with it back then? > > It didn't. The code in FreeBSD is almost exactly the same as when > IP_HDRINCL was introduced in 4.3-Reno. The change that caused > more recent versions of FreeBSD to return EINVAL was that it > started checking the validity of the length field and returns > EINVAL if the IP length is longer than the length of the buffer > that was provided. > > I had tossed around the idea of a socket option to switch behaviors, > for both input and output, but decided it would be relatively wasted > effort; if you can conditionally set a socket option you can also > conditionally (fail to) byte-swap the appropriate fields. > > Bill > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-bugs" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 07:06:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10987 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:06:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10944 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:06:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10810; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806261400.HAA10810@implode.root.com> To: Thomas David Rivers cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: block devices to disappear! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:01:52 EDT." <199806241401.KAA04665@lakes.dignus.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:00:25 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Terry Lambert writes: >> had in no other fashion. Let's meake sure that the block device interface >> is not in the same [complex but useful - ed.] category before summarily >> executing it. > > In a similar context - I'd like to ask some simple questions. > > Can anyone clearly state why they were needed in UNIX at it's offset? > > Once that is understood - is it still the case, or has it been obviated > in some way? > > I believe answers to these questions would be illuminating for the > nervous amongst us (I count myself in the 'nervous' category on this one.) > > The reason I call for caution is simple - these have been with UNIX > a long time... if they could have been simplified at the offset, why > weren't they? What's different now? > > I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'd just like to understand what's > changed from 20+ years ago... All caching in Unix used to be device-based and the block device was the thing being cached (as opposed to the character device which is uncached). Starting with 4.4BSD, the cache is file-based, making the main reason for the existence of the block device obsolete. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 07:15:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12469 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:15:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from androcles.com (dhh@androcles.com [204.57.240.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12445 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@androcles.com) Received: (from dhh@localhost) by androcles.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA01530; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199806241401.KAA04665@lakes.dignus.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 06:55:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Duane H. Hesser" To: Thomas David Rivers Subject: Re: Heads up: block devices to disappear! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As a starting point, I'd recommend "Unix Implementation" by K. Thompson. It is part of the Unix 7th Edition manual documentation, available at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/vol2/implement All of volumes 1 and 2 of the V7 manuals are available there (except the C Reference Manual). The document does discuss block and character devices. In addition, the three paragraph introduction to the paper has come to represent (to me) the most succinct expression of the "philosophy of Unix", although I confess that it took me 8-10 years to understand it (I'm not real quick, but persistent). There are a couple of other papers there (e.g. vol2/setup and vol2/cacm.bun) which are interesting to those who might be interested in regaining the ground under Unix's feet. BTW, the documents are in troff 'ms' format. 'groff -ms' does a pretty good job (except for a few 'refer' format references). On 24-Jun-98 Thomas David Rivers wrote: >Terry Lambert writes: >> had in no other fashion. Let's meake sure that the block device interface >> is not in the same [complex but useful - ed.] category before summarily >> executing it. > > In a similar context - I'd like to ask some simple questions. > > Can anyone clearly state why they were needed in UNIX at it's offset? > > Once that is understood - is it still the case, or has it been obviated > in some way? > > I believe answers to these questions would be illuminating for the > nervous amongst us (I count myself in the 'nervous' category on this one.) > > The reason I call for caution is simple - these have been with UNIX > a long time... if they could have been simplified at the offset, why > weren't they? What's different now? > > I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'd just like to understand what's > changed from 20+ years ago... > > - Dave Rivers - > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -------------- Duane H. Hesser dhh@androcles.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 07:17:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12745 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:17:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from main.fiscodata.com.br (main.fiscodata.com.br [200.250.227.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12718 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:17:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paulo@main.fiscodata.com.br) Received: (from paulo@localhost) by main.fiscodata.com.br (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA15525; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:21:46 -0300 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:21:46 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <199806261421.LAA15525@main.fiscodata.com.br> From: Paulo Cesar Pereira de Andrade To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua CC: J.Hogeveen@twiddle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <3592BA54.9A3CA8EF@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> (Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Subject: Re: Signal-11 References: <3592BA54.9A3CA8EF@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG |> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:00:05 +0300 |> From: Ruslan Shevchenko |> |> Jeroen Hogeveen wrote: |> |> > hi, just one quick question. sorry to ask it here, but response on |> > -questions is 0,0. |> > |> > Has anyone had experiences regarding sig11's like these? |> > .map\" -O -pipe -I/usr/local/include log-server.c |> > gcc: Internal compiler error: program as got fatal signal 11 |> > *** Error code 1 |> > |> > Sig-11 indicates a SIGSEV - segmentation violation as far as I know. |> > Does this mean my memory (configuration) is bad or that my CPU is |> > overheated? |> > |> |> You can check this, by doing make (or compiling) again and again. |> |> If this error is reprodusable, than it is gcc error |> (gcc is very buggy), otherwise --- memory error. |> I have a 486 machine that frequently trashes files. Sometimes, while doing a large compile, gcc will not understand the C language anymore ;), doing the *same* error always. A simple reboot and recompile works fine. The most common problems is the gcc executable file image being loaded incorrectly from disk or the file it is compiling. I think the real problem with this machine may be the hard disk, but the cause of the repeteable failures is the file cache with wrong data. Paulo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 07:29:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14540 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:29:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles204.castles.com [208.214.165.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14370 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:29:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA07142; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806261429.HAA07142@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Josef Belkovics cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BROKEN_KEYBOARD_RESET In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:49:45 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:29:31 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > My home pc (Cyrix 486DX4) does not a CPU reset via the keyboard controller > or via invltbl() (/sys/i386/i386/vm_machdep.c). Is somebody able to say me > patch which will reset through bios. Or in some other way. (Don't write - > throw it out.) Write your own, if it matters that much to you. Look at how the VM86 stuff calls the BIOS, find a suitable BIOS vector, and try it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 08:29:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24924 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:29:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24764; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:28:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pb@hsc.fr) Received: from mars.hsc.fr (mars.hsc.fr [192.70.106.44]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5/itesec-1.12-nospam) with ESMTP id RAA13257; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:19:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from pb@localhost) by mars.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.8/pb-19980526) id RAA18988; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:27:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from pb) Message-ID: <19980626172748.A18953@mars.hsc.fr> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:27:48 +0200 From: Pierre Beyssac To: andrewr , Bill Fenner Cc: Nate Lawson , nate@elite.net, julian@whistle.com, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apparent bug in sendto() with raw sockets References: <98Jun25.155535pdt.177515@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.8i In-Reply-To: ; from andrewr on Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 09:38:33AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 09:38:33AM -0400, andrewr wrote: > Speaking of IP_HDRINCL, after reading raw_ip.c and noticing the protection > against spoofing (can't use IP_HDRINCL in certain situations), I started > thinking about actually comparing the user dsupplied ip->ip_src with the Are you sure you're talking about FreeBSD here ? SunOS 4 has such a protection (it checks that the source address belongs to one of the interfaces, or so it seems) but I've successfully spoofed packets on FreeBSD without any problem using IP_HDRINCL. Anyway, such a protection can easily bypassed by sending raw link-level packets through bpf (or probably /dev/nit in the case of SunOS, although I've never tried this). -- Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 09:03:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01128 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:03:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01025 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA14031; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:03:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:03:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Atipa cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Atipa wrote: > > > I really hope -hackers is the best place for this... i didn't want to > > crosspost. > > > > Within the next few months, i will be needing to set up a router for our > > internal network, tying together 7 networks, with some room to grow. I > > plan on buying a rather expensive chassis from Industrial Computer source. > > It has an interesting partially-passive backplane with a PII-233 or faster > > and chipset mounted on it (LX or BX chipset, I believe) with everything > > else on a daughtercard and 9PCI/8ISA slots. Something like the model > > 7520K9-44H-B4 with redundant power supplies. > > Cool. > > > Basically my questions are: > > > > 1) Will there be any problems with using three or more host-to-PCI > > bridges? > > Maybe not in the kernel, but I'd start to worry about saturating your > buses. You are really bumping up against some I/O bottlenecks in my > estimation. I'm rather hoping that three 133MB/sec PCI busses won't have any trouble passing at max about 30MB/sec worth of data (10MB/sec per card, three cards per bus). Theoretically even one PCI bus could handle all 8 of those cards.. _theoretically_... :-) > > 2) Will there be any problems using up to 8 Intel Etherexpress Pro > > 10/100's? If so, can I use a combination of those and some DEC > > 21[0,1]4[0,1] cards? > > If the answer to question #1 is "No", then the same should be true for > question #2. Of course. > > 3) If i ever end up using natd for all of this, would there be any > > problems with it servicing those 7 networks (probably max 100 hosts per > > network)? > > Dunno. Never used natd, but I would not _expect_ any difficulties. I didn't think there would be any problem either, but experience counts for more than speculation. I've already used it with 5 networks, but only about 5 hosts per network (small class lab). :-) > > I initially thought of just getting a nice ATX rackmount case and a nice > > ASUS motherboard and using some of those ZNYX 4-port fast-ethernet cards. > > Several reasons why I like the above idea better is because the support > > for the Intel cards is apparently better, and replacing bad NICs would be > > simple and inexpensive. If I DO end up going the ZNYX route, are there > > any known problems with those 4-port cards? I'd need two of them, of > > course, and the motherboard would most likely have an Intel card built > > onto it also. Maybe I'll even eventually throw an ETInc sync serial card > > in there for my T1 and use our Cisco 2514 elsewhere. > > Yow. I think you should diversify your services, and spread out the I/O > and interfaces over a couple machines. You really don't want to put all > your eggs in one basket. Smaller, more digestible chunks would mean > cheaper hardware (to the point that your NET would probably be less), less > disastrous failures, and fewer bottlenecks related to architecture (PCI, > RAM, disk I/O, etc.). I would have to put all my eggs into a Cisco router basket, or an "IP-switch" basket.. Either way, its gonna happen. This is not ultra-critical. We are just a public K-12 school after all, and losing service temporarily isn't going to cause anything but maybe some lack-of-Internet withdrawl symptoms and a small management headache for me, at this point in our overall scheme of things. Maybe later on it will become more critical. Having said that, it would seem that the system I described above might be overkill, but after careful thought and seeing another local school (actually a community college with a very smart man at the computer wheel) do the same thing with BSDi, i figured it would work just fine for my purposes. And for a lot less money than with other solutions. I just had second thoughts about putting the sync serial card in that machine, since the way it will be laid out now, i could literally place a switch in place of this router and reconfigure our gateway router and all would work again in the event of failure. The reason I'm not doing that in the first place is, among other reasons, switches pass the hailstorms of broadcast traffic that Winblows clients and servers like to generate, and routers don't. PLUS, I will be able to do NAT and maybe hand back a few of the /24's we have (I'm keeping at least one). > > Other options I would have are either a 8-port or more Cisco router (ugh, > > expensive), or a 3COM gigabit layer-3 IP switch (THAT would be nice, but > > the pricetag is in the 5-digit area). I would MUCH rather use a very nice > > FreeBSD system for this job. > > Or two ? :) Sure, I could create some kind of tiered approach with multiple routers with redundant links between all the tiers (and use OSPF or something?). Its a great idea, actually, but too expensive, and a bit complicated... Glad I thought of it. :-) > > > By the way, anyone know of any place cheaper than ICS for the components I > > need? Even just someplace that sells good ATX rackmount cases and power > > supplies (Jinco maybe)? > > www.atipa.com :) NICE. I don't see any rackmount cases though. Do you sell or can you get any? If so, you're at the top of my list, just under a local guy that says he can get me the stuff I want for wholesale. :-) > Regards, > Kevin -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 09:49:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08193 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:49:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ve7tcp.ampr.org (ve7tcp.ampr.org [198.161.92.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08170 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:49:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org) Received: from ve7tcp.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by ve7tcp.ampr.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA26282; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:47:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806261647.KAA26282@ve7tcp.ampr.org> To: joelh@gnu.org cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jamie@itribe.net, opsys@mail.webspan.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: option MROUTING In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:11:11 CDT." <199806252311.SAA07938@detlev.UUCP> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:47:26 -0600 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Joel" == Joel Ray Holveck writes: Joel> I would have guessed that they are charging on general "neat Joel> new technology" principles. Price is frequently unrelated Joel> to cost. Exactly my point. Routing IP packets is not "neat new technology." --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 10:11:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12869 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:11:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from brooklyn.slack.net (root@brooklyn.slack.net [206.41.21.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12759; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:10:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrewr@brooklyn.slack.net) Received: from localhost (andrewr@localhost) by brooklyn.slack.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA17555; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:13:39 -0400 (EDT) From: andrewr To: Pierre Beyssac cc: Bill Fenner , Nate Lawson , nate@elite.net, julian@whistle.com, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apparent bug in sendto() with raw sockets In-Reply-To: <19980626172748.A18953@mars.hsc.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I too have spoofed packets under FreeBSD, I am just noting somethings that might want to be changed. ***************************************** AWR XNS, Inc. "Drink beer, it will save your life." On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Pierre Beyssac wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 09:38:33AM -0400, andrewr wrote: > > Speaking of IP_HDRINCL, after reading raw_ip.c and noticing the protection > > against spoofing (can't use IP_HDRINCL in certain situations), I started > > thinking about actually comparing the user dsupplied ip->ip_src with the > > Are you sure you're talking about FreeBSD here ? SunOS 4 has such > a protection (it checks that the source address belongs to one of > the interfaces, or so it seems) but I've successfully spoofed > packets on FreeBSD without any problem using IP_HDRINCL. > > Anyway, such a protection can easily bypassed by sending raw > link-level packets through bpf (or probably /dev/nit in the case > of SunOS, although I've never tried this). > -- > Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 10:18:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14820 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:18:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14758 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:18:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA03089; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:29:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806261729.NAA03089@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:26:48 -0400 To: David Kelly , Greg Lehey From: Dennis Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.0 (was: Here is what I promised :-)) Cc: Eivind Eklund , dyson@iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806260315.WAA12310@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: <19980625182109.D356@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How about BSD/OS2. that should confuse the crap out of everyone, but might confuse the magazines enough to get serious coverage. Might be some lawsuits though :( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 10:33:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18507 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:33:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gras-varg.worldgate.com (skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com [198.161.84.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18337 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:32:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skafte@worldgate.com) Received: (from skafte@localhost) by gras-varg.worldgate.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id LAA12207; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:32:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19980626113231.B11941@worldgate.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:32:31 -0600 From: Greg Skafte To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? References: <199806260526.WAA06599@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806260526.WAA06599@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 10:26:23PM -0700 Organization: WorldGate Inc. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 42 9C 2C A8 4D 2B C9 C4 7D B6 00 B0 50 47 20 97 X-URL: http://gras-varg.worldgate.com/~skafte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Quoting David Greenman (dg@root.com) On Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? Date: Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 10:26:23PM -0700 > >Basically my questions are: > > > >1) Will there be any problems with using three or more host-to-PCI > >bridges? see my answer below > > > >2) Will there be any problems using up to 8 Intel Etherexpress Pro > >10/100's? If so, can I use a combination of those and some DEC > >21[0,1]4[0,1] cards? > > It should work, but I don't know that anyone has actually tried this. not having any problems with this scenario on our net .... in one of our machines we have 3 of the quad DEC 21x4x cards... the big issue here is the density of the ethernet jacks .... they are a little close together.... makes it hard to fix cable issues .... > > >3) If i ever end up using natd for all of this, would there be any > >problems with it servicing those 7 networks (probably max 100 hosts per > >network)? > > Don't know the answer to that one. > > >I initially thought of just getting a nice ATX rackmount case and a nice > >ASUS motherboard and using some of those ZNYX 4-port fast-ethernet cards. > >Several reasons why I like the above idea better is because the support > >for the Intel cards is apparently better, and replacing bad NICs would be > >simple and inexpensive. If I DO end up going the ZNYX route, are there > >any known problems with those 4-port cards? I'd need two of them, of > >course, and the motherboard would most likely have an Intel card built > >onto it also. Maybe I'll even eventually throw an ETInc sync serial card > >in there for my T1 and use our Cisco 2514 elsewhere. > > Considering all of the compatibility problems with the 'de' driver, I'd > stick with the Intels. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Email: skafte@worldgate.com Voice: +403 413 1910 Fax: +403 421 4929 #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 -- -- When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex. (Janet Morris) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 10:57:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24711 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:57:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de [141.31.112.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24619 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:57:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from helbig@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04997; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:59:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:59:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <199806261759.TAA04997@RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jasone@canonware.com Subject: Re: raw devices (min transfer size, detection) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 11:23:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01827 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01792 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:22:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id UAA20730; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:15:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01964; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:25:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980626192508.A1497@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:25:08 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: "James E. Housley" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Lars.Koeller@Uni-Bielefeld.DE Subject: Re: gwstat and xmgr References: <35938FD0.1788865F@pr-comm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <35938FD0.1788865F@pr-comm.com>; from James E. Housley on Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 08:10:56AM -0400 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 08:10:56AM -0400, James E. Housley wrote: > gwstat depends on xmgr. xmgr4 can not be fetched from any of the sites > listed in the make file. Will this be able to be fixed before the > upcoming release of 2.2.7? The maintainer of xmgr4 is Lars Köller as you can see in the Makefile, so please ask him, it's his port. Anyway, if you have a fix, I could commit it... But generelly I'd like to see some patches with Approved by: Lars Ok ?! ;-) -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 11:44:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05428 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:44:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (bmcgover-pc.cisco.com [171.69.104.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05363; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:44:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00218; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:45:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Message-Id: <199806261845.OAA00218@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: mcgovern@spoon.beta.com Subject: PSM problem... Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:45:23 -0400 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just got a new AL440LX motherboard that has a PS/2 mouse port that is acting quirky. It works fine under Win95, but not under FreeBSD. I'm not sure whether its a bad port, or whether its just a bad probe that we're doing. Anyhow, here is some -v output for people to take a peek at. If someone could point me towards a patch for the psm driver, or make the statement 'bad motherboard', I'd appreciate it. I have others of the same type that seem to work ok. -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 11:46:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05683 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (bmcgover-pc.cisco.com [171.69.104.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05600; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:45:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00230; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:46:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Message-Id: <199806261846.OAA00230@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PS/2 problem Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:46:44 -0400 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thats what I get for fancy fingers.... Hit Save/Send too soon. Here is the -v output of my screwy PS/2 port... psm0: current command byte:0047 kbdio: TEST_AUX_PORT status:00fa kbdio: DIAGNOSE status:0055 kbdio: TEST_KBD_PORT status:00fa psm: keyboard port failed. psm0: the aux port is not functioning (250). psm0 not found at 0x60 -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 11:48:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05994 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:48:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05932 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:47:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21977; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:47:21 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA06828; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:47:19 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980626204719.24634@follo.net> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:47:19 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Chris Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Dillon on Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:32:35PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:32:35PM -0500, Chris Dillon wrote: > 3) If i ever end up using natd for all of this, would there be any > problems with it servicing those 7 networks (probably max 100 hosts per > network)? The only part that I know have problems with scaling is the link expiration structure. The other data structures are AFAIR all logarithmic. I have almost-finished patches for replacing this, I've just not felt like building the regression test framework for it (given that I only write code for this, but don't actively use natd/libalias for my personal workspace any more - I have customers that do, though). If you get problems, yell. It _will_ be solved. natd shall scale that far :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 12:02:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08806 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:02:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08737 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA15064; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06854; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id OAA00581; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:56:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199806261856.OAA00581@lakes.dignus.com> To: dg@root.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: block devices to disappear! In-Reply-To: <199806261400.HAA10810@implode.root.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman writes: > > All caching in Unix used to be device-based and the block device was the > thing being cached (as opposed to the character device which is uncached). > Starting with 4.4BSD, the cache is file-based, making the main reason for > the existence of the block device obsolete. > > -DG That's the reason I was looking for... the block devices had to have something that caused their necessity... - Dave R. - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 13:06:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20128 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20068 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:06:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA14550; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:06:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:06:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? In-Reply-To: <19980626204719.24634@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:32:35PM -0500, Chris Dillon wrote: > > 3) If i ever end up using natd for all of this, would there be any > > problems with it servicing those 7 networks (probably max 100 hosts per > > network)? > > The only part that I know have problems with scaling is the link > expiration structure. The other data structures are AFAIR all > logarithmic. > > I have almost-finished patches for replacing this, I've just not felt > like building the regression test framework for it (given that I only > write code for this, but don't actively use natd/libalias for my > personal workspace any more - I have customers that do, though). > > If you get problems, yell. It _will_ be solved. natd shall scale > that far :-) I knew it would. :-) I won't be setting this up for another month or two, and it may be even longer before I put NAT into use (or maybe not.. I've only got three /24s, and I'm going to need at least 4 of them, assuming I split each of them into 8 /25s). One nice thing is if I use NAT I've got an enormous amount of address space to use for my private internal network. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 13:18:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22660 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:18:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from almond.elite.net (root@almond.elite.net [205.199.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22646; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:18:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@almond.elite.net) Received: (from nate@localhost) by almond.elite.net (8.8.3/ELITE) id NAA08152; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:18:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Nate Lawson Message-Id: <199806262018.NAA08152@almond.elite.net> Subject: Re: sendto()/raw sockets and now spoofing To: andrewr@slack.net (andrewr) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, fenner@parc.xerox.com, nate@elite.net, julian@whistle.com, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "andrewr" at Jun 26, 98 01:13:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Pierre Beyssac wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 09:38:33AM -0400, andrewr wrote: >> > Speaking of IP_HDRINCL, after reading raw_ip.c and noticing the protection >> > against spoofing (can't use IP_HDRINCL in certain situations), I started >> > thinking about actually comparing the user dsupplied ip->ip_src with the >> >> Are you sure you're talking about FreeBSD here ? SunOS 4 has such >> a protection (it checks that the source address belongs to one of >> the interfaces, or so it seems) but I've successfully spoofed >> packets on FreeBSD without any problem using IP_HDRINCL. >> >> Anyway, such a protection can easily bypassed by sending raw >> link-level packets through bpf (or probably /dev/nit in the case >> of SunOS, although I've never tried this). > >I too have spoofed packets under FreeBSD, I am just noting somethings that >might want to be changed. The whole point of IP_HDRINCL is to allow the (privileged) user to supply their own IP header. There should be no code to prevent spoofing because it is quite necessary to be able to write arbitrary parts of the IP header. A DHCP server is a perfect example of a program that must "spoof" its source address. How far do you start to go with this crusade? Do you then go on and verify ip_id is appropriate? What about making sure ip_p isn't equal to ANY of the known protocols since they are accessible through the ordinary sockets interface? If you put the checks in sendto(), I'll be forced to use BPF for my tools. If you put the checks in BPF too, I'll be forced to include an LKM that patches your BPF which ... An operating system provides a layer of abstraction from the hardware that provides protection -- you have this understanding right. But when a properly authenticated and privileged user (root in this case) uses an OS mechanism, IP_HDRINCL, to circumvent these checks, that user takes responsibility for the behavior of his code by explicitly forgoing the normal OS checks. This is the part you were missing. -Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 13:34:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25239 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from brooklyn.slack.net (root@brooklyn.slack.net [206.41.21.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25179; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:34:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrewr@brooklyn.slack.net) Received: from localhost (andrewr@localhost) by brooklyn.slack.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA24846; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:37:38 -0400 (EDT) From: andrewr To: Nate Lawson cc: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr, fenner@parc.xerox.com, nate@elite.net, julian@whistle.com, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sendto()/raw sockets and now spoofing In-Reply-To: <199806262018.NAA08152@almond.elite.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I agree with nate on this, and is why I stopped in the middle of my coding. I only coded the dumb ip_src checker, and I stopped there. I thought to my self "Uhm, who would be spoofing the packets?? Root, most likely.. 'doh'" And I stopped. Andrew ***************************************** AWR XNS, Inc. "Drink beer, it will save your life." On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Nate Lawson wrote: > >On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Pierre Beyssac wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 09:38:33AM -0400, andrewr wrote: > >> > Speaking of IP_HDRINCL, after reading raw_ip.c and noticing the protection > >> > against spoofing (can't use IP_HDRINCL in certain situations), I started > >> > thinking about actually comparing the user dsupplied ip->ip_src with the > >> > >> Are you sure you're talking about FreeBSD here ? SunOS 4 has such > >> a protection (it checks that the source address belongs to one of > >> the interfaces, or so it seems) but I've successfully spoofed > >> packets on FreeBSD without any problem using IP_HDRINCL. > >> > >> Anyway, such a protection can easily bypassed by sending raw > >> link-level packets through bpf (or probably /dev/nit in the case > >> of SunOS, although I've never tried this). > > > >I too have spoofed packets under FreeBSD, I am just noting somethings that > >might want to be changed. > > The whole point of IP_HDRINCL is to allow the (privileged) user to supply > their own IP header. There should be no code to prevent spoofing because it > is quite necessary to be able to write arbitrary parts of the IP header. > A DHCP server is a perfect example of a program that must "spoof" its source > address. > > How far do you start to go with this crusade? Do you then go on and verify > ip_id is appropriate? What about making sure ip_p isn't equal to ANY of the > known protocols since they are accessible through the ordinary sockets > interface? > > If you put the checks in sendto(), I'll be forced to use BPF for my tools. If > you put the checks in BPF too, I'll be forced to include an LKM that patches > your BPF which ... > > An operating system provides a layer of abstraction from the hardware that > provides protection -- you have this understanding right. But when a properly > authenticated and privileged user (root in this case) uses an OS mechanism, > IP_HDRINCL, to circumvent these checks, that user takes responsibility for the > behavior of his code by explicitly forgoing the normal OS checks. This is the > part you were missing. > > -Nate > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 14:05:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01667 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:05:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01145; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:03:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA22869; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma022865; Fri Jun 26 14:02:44 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA01182; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:02:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199806262102.OAA01182@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Apparent bug in sendto() with raw sockets In-Reply-To: from andrewr at "Jun 26, 98 09:38:33 am" To: andrewr@slack.net (andrewr) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: fenner@parc.xerox.com, nate@almond.elite.net, nate@elite.net, julian@whistle.com, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG andrewr writes: > Speaking of IP_HDRINCL, after reading raw_ip.c and noticing the protection > against spoofing (can't use IP_HDRINCL in certain situations), I started > thinking about actually comparing the user dsupplied ip->ip_src with the > actual IP address defined for the outgoing interface. While looking for a What's wrong with being able to spoof an IP address? If I have root access (required to open a raw socket), and I want to do so, the kernel shouldn't prevent me. There are legitimate reasons for wanting to send spoofed source IP addresses (eg, testing situations). -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 14:17:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04412 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@COPLAND.CODA.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.222.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04285; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:16:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00787; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:16:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Announcement: Experimental Authentication and Authorization Token Management Extensions in the FreeBSD Kernel Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Experimental Authentication and Authorization Token Management Extensions in the FreeBSD Kernel Robert Watson Abstract FreeBSD, a derivative of the 4.4BSDlite research operating system developed at the University of California at Berkeley, is used in a variety of networked and stand-alone computing environments. FreeBSD makes use of a simple yet flexible user-based authorization model following the UNIX example. However, this model is not scalable across large computing infrastructures with multiple administrative domains, and the model does not interact well with the differing paradigms supported by a variety of network operating systems. This document proposes a set of extensions to the FreeBSD kernel providing both authentication and authorization "tokens", allowing greater flexibility in supporting a variety of authentication and authorization models. Tokens are the kernel's representation of a fragment of data relating to the capabilities and keying material associated with a set of processes, or Process Authentication Group (PAG). A sample implementation of a subset of the described token behavior via a loadable kernel module available for download, along with a set of utilities for experimenting with the token behavior. Expansion on the implementation to provide additional features and sample uses will be forthcoming. URL: http://www.watson.org/fbsd-hardening/tokens/ Email: robert+sec.ktokens@cyrus.watson.org The freebsd-security@freebsd.org mailing list is also an appropriate place to discuss the issues involved. Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 14:17:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04467 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04347 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:17:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA22969; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma022965; Fri Jun 26 14:16:16 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA01225; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:16:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199806262116.OAA01225@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: raw devices (min transfer size, detection) In-Reply-To: from Jason Evans at "Jun 26, 98 00:47:26 am" To: jasone@canonware.com (Jason Evans) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Evans writes: > 2) How can I programmatically (in C) know that a file is a device, and > more specifically a raw device? I've browsed a large number of > manpages, but I still haven't found the answer. I'll eventually find > it, but perhaps someone can point me in the right direction? =) man stat(2) for starters.. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 15:32:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18070 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:32:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (ulf@gatekeeper.Alameda.net [207.90.181.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18055 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:32:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.9.0/8.8.6) id PAA27190; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980626153112.B24252@Alameda.net> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:31:13 -0700 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: Chris Dillon , Atipa Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Dillon on Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 11:03:01AM -0500 Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 11:03:01AM -0500, Chris Dillon wrote: > On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Atipa wrote: > > > > > > I really hope -hackers is the best place for this... i didn't want to > > > crosspost. > > > > > > Within the next few months, i will be needing to set up a router for our > > > internal network, tying together 7 networks, with some room to grow. I > > > plan on buying a rather expensive chassis from Industrial Computer source. > > > It has an interesting partially-passive backplane with a PII-233 or faster > > > and chipset mounted on it (LX or BX chipset, I believe) with everything > > > else on a daughtercard and 9PCI/8ISA slots. Something like the model > > > 7520K9-44H-B4 with redundant power supplies. > > > > Cool. > > > > > Basically my questions are: > > > > > > 1) Will there be any problems with using three or more host-to-PCI > > > bridges? > > > > Maybe not in the kernel, but I'd start to worry about saturating your > > buses. You are really bumping up against some I/O bottlenecks in my > > estimation. > > I'm rather hoping that three 133MB/sec PCI busses won't have any trouble > passing at max about 30MB/sec worth of data (10MB/sec per card, three > cards per bus). Theoretically even one PCI bus could handle all 8 of > those cards.. _theoretically_... :-) Double that number, Full Duplex is what you usual now use in routers. I also wouldn't say the single bus is the problem, but the main PCI bus and the CPU will be a bottleneck. You will definatly not be able to run 8 cards at full speed (8 x 10Mbyte/sec x 2 (FullDuplex) = 160 MByte/sec) > > > > 2) Will there be any problems using up to 8 Intel Etherexpress Pro > > > 10/100's? If so, can I use a combination of those and some DEC > > > 21[0,1]4[0,1] cards? > > > > If the answer to question #1 is "No", then the same should be true for > > question #2. > > Of course. > > > > 3) If i ever end up using natd for all of this, would there be any > > > problems with it servicing those 7 networks (probably max 100 hosts per > > > network)? > > > > Dunno. Never used natd, but I would not _expect_ any difficulties. > > I didn't think there would be any problem either, but experience counts > for more than speculation. I've already used it with 5 networks, but only > about 5 hosts per network (small class lab). :-) > > > > I initially thought of just getting a nice ATX rackmount case and a nice > > > ASUS motherboard and using some of those ZNYX 4-port fast-ethernet cards. > > > Several reasons why I like the above idea better is because the support > > > for the Intel cards is apparently better, and replacing bad NICs would be > > > simple and inexpensive. If I DO end up going the ZNYX route, are there > > > any known problems with those 4-port cards? I'd need two of them, of > > > course, and the motherboard would most likely have an Intel card built > > > onto it also. Maybe I'll even eventually throw an ETInc sync serial card > > > in there for my T1 and use our Cisco 2514 elsewhere. > > > > Yow. I think you should diversify your services, and spread out the I/O > > and interfaces over a couple machines. You really don't want to put all > > your eggs in one basket. Smaller, more digestible chunks would mean > > cheaper hardware (to the point that your NET would probably be less), less > > disastrous failures, and fewer bottlenecks related to architecture (PCI, > > RAM, disk I/O, etc.). > > I would have to put all my eggs into a Cisco router basket, or an > "IP-switch" basket.. Either way, its gonna happen. This is not > ultra-critical. We are just a public K-12 school after all, and losing > service temporarily isn't going to cause anything but maybe some > lack-of-Internet withdrawl symptoms and a small management headache for > me, at this point in our overall scheme of things. Maybe later on it will > become more critical. Having said that, it would seem that the system I > described above might be overkill, but after careful thought and seeing > another local school (actually a community college with a very smart man > at the computer wheel) do the same thing with BSDi, i figured it would > work just fine for my purposes. And for a lot less money than with other > solutions. > > I just had second thoughts about putting the sync serial card in that > machine, since the way it will be laid out now, i could literally place a > switch in place of this router and reconfigure our gateway router and all > would work again in the event of failure. The reason I'm not doing that > in the first place is, among other reasons, switches pass the hailstorms > of broadcast traffic that Winblows clients and servers like to generate, > and routers don't. PLUS, I will be able to do NAT and maybe hand back a > few of the /24's we have (I'm keeping at least one). > > > > Other options I would have are either a 8-port or more Cisco router (ugh, > > > expensive), or a 3COM gigabit layer-3 IP switch (THAT would be nice, but > > > the pricetag is in the 5-digit area). I would MUCH rather use a very nice > > > FreeBSD system for this job. > > > > Or two ? :) > > Sure, I could create some kind of tiered approach with multiple routers > with redundant links between all the tiers (and use OSPF or something?). > Its a great idea, actually, but too expensive, and a bit complicated... > Glad I thought of it. :-) > > > > > > By the way, anyone know of any place cheaper than ICS for the components I > > > need? Even just someplace that sells good ATX rackmount cases and power > > > supplies (Jinco maybe)? > > > > www.atipa.com :) > > NICE. I don't see any rackmount cases though. Do you sell or can you get > any? If so, you're at the top of my list, just under a local guy that > says he can get me the stuff I want for wholesale. :-) > > > Regards, > > Kevin > > > -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net > /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. > For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) > (http://www.freebsd.org) */ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 16:04:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21718 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:04:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21608; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:03:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (annexr2-44.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.170.94]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA22767; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:03:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.8/8.6.9) id AAA03077; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 00:29:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Face: " Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 00:29:33 +0200 From: Stefan Esser To: matthew@wolfepub.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Stefan Esser Subject: Re: PCI support for INTs Mail-Followup-To: matthew@wolfepub.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Stefan Esser References: <3589D32F.6B27@wolfepub.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <3589D32F.6B27@wolfepub.com>; from Matthew Hagerty on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 10:55:43PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1998-06-18 22:55 -0400, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > Greetings, > > Does 2.2.6-R support various PCI INTs? Sure! > For example, I have an older MB > that has 3 PCI slots. Each slot is assined an INT (A, B, and C) and > each INT can be assinged a system IRQ. I was having trouble getting PCI > cards to work, most recently a NIC, and found that they only work in PCI > slot 1 which is assigned INT-A. PCI does not work that way! Your MB must be pre-PCI-1.0, if it does not exclusively use Int A for single function devices. > That would not be so bad except 1. I could only use 1 PCI card, 2. INT-A > can only be assigned IRQ14 (which conflicts the onboard IDE) or IRQ5 > (which just conflicts everything), 3. PCI slot 1 is a shared PCI/ISA > slot, so I lose an ISA slot too! :( Starting with 3: FreeBSD is about software, and we can't possibly fix your hardware problems ;-) With regard to 2: FreeBSD supports shared interrupts, and thus you could assign the same IRQ to each PCI slot. But if you really can only use IRQ 14 and IRQ 5, then there is no way to make it work, except to reserve IRQ 5 for PCI and make all PCI slots use Int A / IRQ 5 ... Well, and 1 seems to be a result of your other problems with that MB, if I understand you correctly. > Anyway, if I put a card in PCI slot 3 for example and set IRQ15 to it, > when 2.2.6-R starts it finds the card and the IRQ assigned to it by the > BIOS, but it reports that the card is using INT-A when actually PCI slot > 3 is INT-C. Alas the card won't work. Put it in PCI slot 1 and all is > fine. You should not be using Int C for slot 3. Int A is correct! > Any ideas or information? Well, either your MB is too old and you should expect no end of trouble because of lack of standards conformance, or you just need some more information about how PCI is supposed to work ;-) Check out the mail archives for messages regarding PCI and interrupts, there was a thread that might help, a few weeks ago. Please send more details about your chip-set, BIOS, and verbose boot messages, if you need more support. Regards, STefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 16:10:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22550 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:10:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22480 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:09:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA15015; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:47:28 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:47:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: Atipa , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? In-Reply-To: <19980626153112.B24252@Alameda.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 11:03:01AM -0500, Chris Dillon wrote: > > On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Atipa wrote: > > > > > > > > > I really hope -hackers is the best place for this... i didn't want to > > > > crosspost. > > > > > > > > Within the next few months, i will be needing to set up a router for our > > > > internal network, tying together 7 networks, with some room to grow. I > > > > plan on buying a rather expensive chassis from Industrial Computer source. > > > > It has an interesting partially-passive backplane with a PII-233 or faster > > > > and chipset mounted on it (LX or BX chipset, I believe) with everything > > > > else on a daughtercard and 9PCI/8ISA slots. Something like the model > > > > 7520K9-44H-B4 with redundant power supplies. > > > > > > Cool. > > > > > > > Basically my questions are: > > > > > > > > 1) Will there be any problems with using three or more host-to-PCI > > > > bridges? > > > > > > Maybe not in the kernel, but I'd start to worry about saturating your > > > buses. You are really bumping up against some I/O bottlenecks in my > > > estimation. > > > > I'm rather hoping that three 133MB/sec PCI busses won't have any trouble > > passing at max about 30MB/sec worth of data (10MB/sec per card, three > > cards per bus). Theoretically even one PCI bus could handle all 8 of > > those cards.. _theoretically_... :-) > > Double that number, Full Duplex is what you usual now use in routers. > I also wouldn't say the single bus is the problem, but the main PCI bus and > the CPU will be a bottleneck. You will definatly not be able to run 8 > cards at full speed (8 x 10Mbyte/sec x 2 (FullDuplex) = 160 MByte/sec) Doh.. I knew that, but didn't put that in my calculation. Anyway, I'm not needing full wire-speed from these things. I think I'd be happy with 1/5th that. :-) I'm expecting that if ftp.freebsd.org can do about, 5MB/sec on average, along with thousands of FTP clients, without breaking a sweat on a PPro200, then a PII-350 or 400 should be able to do line-speed at least between two networks at a time. If and when I do this, expect me to perform some benchmarks. :-) As for the "main PCI bus" being the bottleneck, I'm really hoping they used three host-to-PCI bridges, and not a single host-to-PCI bridge and two PCI-to-PCI bridges. Even if not, I could push about 100MB/sec across the bus (assuming the CPU could push that), and thats more than enough for me. I imagine a Cisco of _equal price_ wouldn't even come close to the throughput I'm going to do. I could be wrong, of course. > -- > Ulf. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 > -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 19:21:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24363 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:21:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flarn.dyn.ml.org (root@usr215.third-wave.com [147.72.122.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24305 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:21:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@flarn.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from mph@localhost) by flarn.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00486; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:56:28 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980626215627.A363@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:56:27 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Mike Smith , Josef Belkovics Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BROKEN_KEYBOARD_RESET Mail-Followup-To: Mike Smith , Josef Belkovics , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199806261429.HAA07142@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806261429.HAA07142@antipodes.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 07:29:31AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 07:29:31AM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > My home pc (Cyrix 486DX4) does not a CPU reset via the keyboard controller > > or via invltbl() (/sys/i386/i386/vm_machdep.c). Is somebody able to say me > > patch which will reset through bios. Or in some other way. (Don't write - > > throw it out.) > > Write your own, if it matters that much to you. Look at how the VM86 > stuff calls the BIOS, find a suitable BIOS vector, and try it. And if you manage to do it, please contribute the code! When I was a FreeBSD newbie, I was stuck with such a motherboard. I switched to FreeBSD from Linux, and I could reboot it with "reboot=bios" in Linux. A friend of mine, and more experienced FreeBSD hacker, made a valiant effort to port the code, but we never did get it to work. I've ditched that motherboard (and the next one), but enough people still ask about this problem that I would like to be able to point to a fix. Matt -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 19:25:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24880 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:25:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24855 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:24:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id LAA22769; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:54:50 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980627115450.O16259@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:54:50 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Donald Burr , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: odd problems with AMD K6 References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Donald Burr on Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 10:57:21AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 26 June 1998 at 10:57:21 -0700, Donald Burr wrote (to -hardware): After reading this message, I don't think any of these are hardware problems, so I'm following up to -hackers. > I have just updated my system to an AMD K6/233. Chip serial number is > "C 9818 FPJW". And, of course, my OS is FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE. > > Some other details on my setup: > Mobo: EFA E5TX-AT-5 "Pegasus I" > Chipset: Intel 430TX (Triton); MTXC (82439TX)*1, PIIX4 (82371AB)* 1; I/O > chipset is ALI M5135 (Yes, I am using the IWill sio patches...) > OS: FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE, with the IWill sio patches. > > I heard a while back about serious problems with the K6, so I searched the > mailing list archives. There were indeed problems, but AMD reportedly > fixed them as of chip revision "B 9729 xxxx". Since I have heard no new > problem reports since then, I am assuming my chip is one of the "good" > revisions. I think this is a safe assumption. Since the VM problems in early versions, I haven't heard of any problems, and my own K6/233 is running fine since I found an adequate cooling fan. Your dmesg output indicates that you have the same stepping as my chip. > Anyway, the system appears to be working fine and all, that is, for normal > usage. However, the other day I tried a "make world" on the 2.2.6-RELEASE > sources, and got an error. Which leads into... > > 1. Make world fails at *exactly* the same file, with *exactly* the same > error. > > I've run three consecutive 'make world's, and all of them fail, but they > fail at *exactly* the same file, with *exactly* the same error. Here is > the log from one such session: > > ===> share/doc/papers/memfs > indxbib -c > /usr/src/share/doc/papers/memfs/../../../../contrib/groff/indxbib/eign -o > ref.bib /usr/src/share/doc/papers/memfs/ref.bib > indxbib in free(): warning: page is already free. > indxbib in free(): warning: page is already free. > vgrind -f < /usr/src/share/doc/papers/memfs/A.t > A.gt > refer -n -e -l -s -p /usr/src/share/doc/papers/memfs/ref.bib > /usr/src/share/doc/papers/memfs/0.t /usr/src/share/doc/papers/memfs/1.t > A.gt > paper.t > Failed assertion at line 161, file > `/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/refer/../../../../contrib/groff/refer/token.cc' > . > Abort trap - core dumped > *** Error code 134 > > In all cases, the "refer" process dies with signal 6, according to the > system logs (dmesg). More to the point, it's voluntary. > Since the problem occurs at exactly the same spot, with exactly the same > error, I am leaning towards suspecting a problem on my installed system, > rather than a hardware problem (since hardware trouble generally produces > random, unpredictable errors). A good assumption, up to a point. If you built an executable with flaky hardware, and the executable is broken as a result, you can frequently get repeatable problems like this. In this case, it can also mean that the input file to refer is corrupted, which is what I think is meant by the line: A.gt > paper.t I'd take a look at /usr/src/share/doc/papers/memfs/A.t if I were you. It should have a size of 5077 bytes. > 2. Odd system crash -- once. > > When I said before that "the system appears to be working fine and all," > that was sort of a lie. The system did crash, *ONCE*. I have *NOT* been > able to reproeduce this crash, however. > > What happened is this: I was in X, doing a *LOT* of things simultaneously > (i.e. the system was heavily loaded) -- a bunch of usenet articles were > being spooled in, I was running a make world, encoding some mp3's, the > usual Netscape and email client, etc. Then I started up XV to view some > graphics that just came in. The system froze, and rebooted. The system > did dump core, however, and this is the result (using kgdb): > > IdlePTD 279000 > current pcb at 25325c > panic: vref used where vget required > #0 0xf0116c5e in boot () > (kgdb) bt > #0 0xf0116c5e in boot () > #1 0xf0116f4a in panic () > #2 0xf013cc07 in vref () > #3 0xf01043d0 in iso_iget () > #4 0xf010686a in cd9660_root () > #5 0xf013b6c0 in lookup () > #6 0xf013b04d in namei () > #7 0xf013fa04 in stat () > #8 0xf01f59a6 in syscall () > #9 0x2fc5 in ?? () > #10 0x107e in ?? () > > Again, I have not been able to reproduce this. I've run the system > ragged since then, and it hasn't crashed a single time. Doesn't look like hardware. There have been some software problems in this area. Do you still have the dump? > Now, last, but not least, I have a not-so-serious (but cosmetically > ugly) problem: > > 3. Dmesg output is slightly screwy. > > If I boot tje GENERIC kernel, the CPU type is properly detected and prints > out properly: > > CPU: AMD-K6tm w/ multimedia extensions (233.86-MHz 586-class CPU) > Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x562 Stepping=2 > Features=0x8001bf > > however, if I boot my own custom kernel, it shows something really odd. > > CPU: \^E (233.86-MHz 586-class CPU) > Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x562 Stepping=2 > Features=0x8001bf > > Note the odd-looking CPU name... Strange. > Perhaps I'm doing something slightly wrong in my config? A copy of it is > attached for your viewing pleasure. I can't think that this is something that could be influenced by the kernel config. I'd guess that you have some data corruption somewhere. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 19:38:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26731 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:38:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26726 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:38:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id MAA22841; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:08:20 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980627120819.Q16259@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:08:19 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Jambi , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: ccd questions. References: <199806240406.WAA00518@narnia.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jambi on Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 12:44:34PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This was sent to -scsi, but it's not really SCSI-related. Following up to -hackers. On Friday, 26 June 1998 at 12:44:34 -0700, Jambi wrote: > Hey all, > I have been trying to run a few test with ccd and squid cache. > Squid requires a great deal of random access and seek operations as the > data is spread all over the squid cache partitions. I was planning on > using 3 IBM DDRS-39130W S92A connected in a chain to a 2940UW. > I decided to use ccd and see how it compares to just having 3 disks > mounted seperatly. > Here are the questions: > a) ccdconfig -v ccd0 65536 0x02 /dev/sd0c /dev/sd1c /dev/sd2c is the > command I use to make the device. I can mount it then at an place on the > file system (say mount /dev/ccd0c /mnt) but I can't write, ls, cd or do > anything to that partition. Am I missing something here? You certainly haven't described things enough for me to be sure what you did. Others have already pointed out that you need a newfs, but you need that before you mount, too. Did you get the file system mounted? What does the output of df look like? What error messages do you get when you try to access the partition? BTW, the interleave factor is in blocks. Did you really want an interleave factor of 65536 blocks (32 MB). This will work, but it's rather large. > b) when trying to look at the size of the ccd (with df -k) I see that the > system shows the size on one disk, not all three of them (every disk is > 9.1GB). From the man page I understood that the 0x02 flag will add the > disks together so I was expecting to find a 27GB disk not one 9GB disk. Correct. Let's see that df output. BTW, you might be interested in vinum, a planned replacement for ccd. Check out http://www.lemis.com/vinum.html. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 22:28:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15627 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:28:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (root@[208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15622 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:28:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-30.camalott.com [208.229.74.30] (may be forged)) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28642; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:28:01 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01035; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:28:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:28:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806270528.AAA01035@detlev.UUCP> To: paulo@main.fiscodata.com.br CC: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, J.Hogeveen@twiddle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199806261421.LAA15525@main.fiscodata.com.br> (message from Paulo Cesar Pereira de Andrade on Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:21:46 -0300 (EST)) Subject: Re: Signal-11 From: Joel Ray Holveck References: <3592BA54.9A3CA8EF@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <199806261421.LAA15525@main.fiscodata.com.br> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have a 486 machine that frequently trashes files. Sometimes, > while doing a large compile, gcc will not understand the C language > anymore ;), doing the *same* error always. A simple reboot and recompile > works fine. > The most common problems is the gcc executable file image being loaded > incorrectly from disk or the file it is compiling. I think the real problem > with this machine may be the hard disk, but the cause of the repeteable > failures is the file cache with wrong data. Sounds like a problem with your RAM, cache ram, MB, or uP, with RAM being the most likely. You're not overclocking, are you? (If you are, just set it to spec and try again, and *don't* mention it to the list right now; I don't want to have to delete the ensuing rubbish.) Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 23:40:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA22801 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sophia.pacific.net.sg (sophia.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA22792; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:40:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from accel@pacific.net.sg) Received: from pop1.pacific.net.sg (pop1.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.85]) by sophia.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id OAA24218; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:40:39 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [210.24.242.127] (dyn120ppp99.pacific.net.sg [210.24.120.99]) by pop1.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id OAA10836; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:40:35 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:37:03 +0800 To: "Timothy M. Hughes" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG From: Richard Goh Subject: Re: RealTek RTL 8129 PCI Fast Ethernet Card Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG HI, Has anyone got the driver to work yet? Just bought an Advantech panel pc thinking that "NE2000 compatible" was all i needed. Needless to say, countless rebuilds later ..... Thanks for any tips. Rgds Richard On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Tue, Mar 17, 1998 at 08:04:15AM -0500, Timothy M. Hughes wrote: > > Has anyone got one of these things to work yet?? I mailed > > questions@freebsd.org and got a response that it was "probably" a > > proprietary driver. If you have a driver or have gotten it to work, > > please email me directly (I dont subscibe). > > RealTek is fairly good at supporting free OSes (even sometimes writing > drivers themselves). > > I don't think you should have a problem getting info from them, but it > is probably correct that it is a properitary chip (probably with an > almost complete clone of the interface of a popular chipset, so making > drivers work should be easy). Unlike the 8019/8029 (which are NE2000 clones), the 8129/8139 appear to be their own design and not compatible with anything else. However, datasheets that look complete enough to write a driver are available on their website (www.realtek.com.tw), and there also exists a Linux driver to crib from (see http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/misc/100mbs.html ) [Sorry if you see two copies of this - I think I killed the one with an incorrect URL, but it may have escaped] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message www@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jun 26 23:45:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA23487 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:45:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23458 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:45:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA22290; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:45:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd022258; Fri Jun 26 23:45:28 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA21564; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:45:26 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806270645.XAA21564@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: raw devices (min transfer size, detection) To: jasone@canonware.com (Jason Evans) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:45:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jason Evans" at Jun 26, 98 00:47:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1) I need to know the minimum transfer size for the underlying device so > that I can intelligently write only the physical blocks that need > written, rather than an entire "logical" block as my code sees the > data. I've looked through physio() and friends, and it appears that > this information is deriveable from the buf struct that is passed in to > physio(). The problem is that this is all done behind the scenes. Can > I directly get at this info? > > I've got a workaround, which involves trying to read 1, 2, 4, ..., 2^n > bytes, until the read succeeds. This seems kind of gross though. > > 2) How can I programmatically (in C) know that a file is a device, and > more specifically a raw device? I've browsed a large number of > manpages, but I still haven't found the answer. I'll eventually find > it, but perhaps someone can point me in the right direction? =) stat(2) the device: The size-related fields of the struct stat are as follows: st_blksize The optimal I/O block size for the file. The status information word st_mode has the following bits: #define S_IFMT 0170000 /* type of file */ #define S_IFIFO 0010000 /* named pipe (fifo) */ #define S_IFCHR 0020000 /* character special */ #define S_IFDIR 0040000 /* directory */ #define S_IFBLK 0060000 /* block special */ #define S_IFREG 0100000 /* regular */ #define S_IFLNK 0120000 /* symbolic link */ #define S_IFSOCK 0140000 /* socket */ #define S_IFWHT 0160000 /* whiteout */ Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 00:09:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA25922 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:09:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA25909 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:09:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26427; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:09:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd026382; Sat Jun 27 00:09:13 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22423; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:09:11 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806270709.AAA22423@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: BROKEN_KEYBOARD_RESET To: belkovic@albert.osu.cz (Josef Belkovics) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:09:11 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Josef Belkovics" at Jun 26, 98 11:49:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > My home pc (Cyrix 486DX4) does not a CPU reset via the keyboard controller > or via invltbl() (/sys/i386/i386/vm_machdep.c). Is somebody able to say me > patch which will reset through bios. Or in some other way. (Don't write - > throw it out.) Does it have a PCI or EISA bus? There are PCI and EISA resets... I would recommend disassembling the keyboard portion of the BIOS to see what it's doing so you can duplicate it... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 00:15:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26736 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:15:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA26728 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:15:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28009; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:15:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd027993; Sat Jun 27 00:15:35 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22822; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:15:31 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806270715.AAA22822@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Heads up: block devices to disappear! To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:15:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: rivers@dignus.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806261400.HAA10810@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Jun 26, 98 07:00:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > All caching in Unix used to be device-based and the block device was the > thing being cached (as opposed to the character device which is uncached). > Starting with 4.4BSD, the cache is file-based, making the main reason for > the existence of the block device obsolete. Say I controlled a device by mapping it and then writing two values to the same offset. A device that exposes the I/O address space using unmapped pages, and handles them by examination of the fault, then fixes up the fault. One might see a similar approach taken for hardware emulation to make the hardware appear to match the driver... For instance, a device that emulated inb/outb/inw/outw/etc. on an Alpha platform to allow a user space XFree86 to talk to nominally PC hardware, or a VMM for managing multiple virtual x86's. Will the new character interface be uncached, or will it "gather" the writes, preventing me from talking to such a device? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 00:18:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA27228 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:18:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA27115; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:18:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04404; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:18:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd004394; Sat Jun 27 00:17:57 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22908; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:17:47 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806270717.AAA22908@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Apparent bug in sendto() with raw sockets To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:17:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: andrewr@slack.net, fenner@parc.xerox.com, nate@almond.elite.net, nate@elite.net, julian@whistle.com, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806262102.OAA01182@bubba.whistle.com> from "Archie Cobbs" at Jun 26, 98 02:02:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Speaking of IP_HDRINCL, after reading raw_ip.c and noticing the protection > > against spoofing (can't use IP_HDRINCL in certain situations), I started > > thinking about actually comparing the user dsupplied ip->ip_src with the > > actual IP address defined for the outgoing interface. While looking for a > > What's wrong with being able to spoof an IP address? If I have root > access (required to open a raw socket), and I want to do so, the kernel > shouldn't prevent me. There are legitimate reasons for wanting to send > spoofed source IP addresses (eg, testing situations). A number of "netnanny" packages rely on being able to say "host unreachable" in response to a request before the (actually reachable) site is able to respond with the information. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 01:08:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04424 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04309 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:08:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199806270808.BAA04309@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA071324877; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:07:57 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: 2940UW boot w/ JAZ on 2.2.5 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:07:56 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On bootup with a JAZ drive, I ejected the cartridge and FreeBSD failed to boot up. Heaps of messages about SCB's timing out, ahc0 not responding, unknowns, etc. Curiously it is scanning all the targets and all their LUNs. Will have to wait longer to see if it actually boots, it's quite slow this :) Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 01:34:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA08497 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:34:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA08491 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:34:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m0ypqRb-00087KC; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 04:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: From: root@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home Root) Subject: dmesg To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 04:34:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG after a recent compile, dmesg fails with a 'bad magic number'. Rather puzzling... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 01:36:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA08731 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:36:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA08718 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m0ypqSr-00087KC; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 04:36:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: From: root@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home Root) Subject: dmesg To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 04:36:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG That was a recent kernel compile! Sorry. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 02:08:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA12559 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:08:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12522 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:08:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA27369 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:07:46 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA15353; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:08:07 +0800 Message-Id: <199806270908.RAA15353@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Extracting RPM archives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:08:07 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yeah I know it's from that other Unix, but does anyone have a tool to do this (I'm trying to extract the sources to the 3dfx device drivers and all the latest Linux Glide libs). Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 05:05:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA05546 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 05:05:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (freefall.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA05531 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 05:05:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.140.2]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA93; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:04:04 +0200 Message-ID: <3594DFEA.EFA2CC9E@pipeline.ch> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:04:58 +0200 From: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Dillon CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Dillon wrote: -snip- > As for the "main PCI bus" being the bottleneck, I'm really hoping they > used three host-to-PCI bridges, and not a single host-to-PCI bridge and > two PCI-to-PCI bridges. Even if not, I could push about 100MB/sec across > the bus (assuming the CPU could push that), and thats more than enough > for me. > > I imagine a Cisco of _equal price_ wouldn't even come close to the > throughput I'm going to do. I could be wrong, of course. Even Cisco uses PCI in their routers... -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 06:08:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11155 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:08:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lohi.clinet.fi (root@lohi.clinet.fi [194.100.0.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11142 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:08:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hsu@mail.clinet.fi) Received: from katiska.clinet.fi (katiska.clinet.fi [194.100.0.4]) by lohi.clinet.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA10881; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:10:14 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by katiska.clinet.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA03382; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:08:05 +0300 (EEST) To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCVT's death References: From: Heikki Suonsivu Date: 27 Jun 1998 16:08:03 +0300 In-Reply-To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk's message of 21 Jun 1998 02:27:39 +0300 Message-ID: Lines: 43 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) writes: > On Jun 20, 12:45pm, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > } Subject: PCVT's death > > > pcvt is dying, syscons is THE console driver in freebsd. > > > If we need more functionality we will have to extend the API with > > > those new items (allready happend once with the nw "wheel" mouse) > > > that is inherent through all of the systems drivers, nothing special > > > here. > > > > I should hope that pcvt wouldn't die. There are a number > > of us who interact with machines that don't know about SCO Ansi > > or cons25 (including my DEC boxes) and we need something which > > can do real vt100 compatibility. I really don't want to have to run > > screen for this on console screens. > > Well why not tell them about cons25 via termcap or terminfo? I do not think my vt220's support termcap or terminfo :) We have been widely using pcvt mostly because it make a lot of things easier, no hassle with termcap entries when loggin on to any host. pcvt also gets erase key right, which helps a lot when everything else is dec or gnu tradition. Yes, pcvt is obviously unsupported, currently we get a kernel panic on plugging in the keyboard. I do not think it is pcvt alone, as there are no changes in it and the problem has been there for PS/2 keyboards all the time; for some reason, couple of months ago the problem also appeared with non-PS/2 keyboards. I cannot see any obvious changes in pcvt or kbdio which would cause this. Unless sc would be made loadable vt220 emulation, pcvt should stay even with its shortcomings. > Niall > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi mobile +358-40-5519679 work +358-9-43542270 fax -4555276 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 06:15:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11508 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:15:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA11503 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:15:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from mercury by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65/AndrewR-930902) id AA00869; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:45:09 +0930 Received: by mercury; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/27Nov97-0404PM) id AA28553; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:45:07 +0930 Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:45:06 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@mercury To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extracting RPM archives In-Reply-To: <199806270908.RAA15353@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > Yeah I know it's from that other Unix, but does anyone have a tool to do this > (I'm trying to extract the sources to the 3dfx device drivers and all the > latest Linux Glide libs). /usr/ports/misc/rpm >From the DESCR file for that port, theres also a rpm2cpio converter at http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/espel/hacks.html Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 06:23:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA12058 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:23:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA12053 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:23:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA03136; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806271323.JAA03136@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" cc: Chris Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? References: <3594DFEA.EFA2CC9E@pipeline.ch> In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:04:58 +0200." <3594DFEA.EFA2CC9E@pipeline.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:23:21 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Chris Dillon wrote: > -snip- > > As for the "main PCI bus" being the bottleneck, I'm really hoping they > > used three host-to-PCI bridges, and not a single host-to-PCI bridge and > > two PCI-to-PCI bridges. Even if not, I could push about 100MB/sec across > > the bus (assuming the CPU could push that), and thats more than enough > > for me. > > > > I imagine a Cisco of _equal price_ wouldn't even come close to the > > throughput I'm going to do. I could be wrong, of course. > > Even Cisco uses PCI in their routers... Uh, not exactly. While they use a PCI bus interface between the port adapter card and the router, there's only that one card on the PCI "bus." The internal architecture is much different. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 07:34:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17626 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:34:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17621 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:34:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199806271434.HAA17621@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA100858050; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:34:10 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: 2940UW boot w/ JAZ on 2.2.5 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:34:10 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199806270808.BAA04309@hub.freebsd.org> from "Darren Reed" at Jun 27, 98 06:07:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Darren Reed, sie said: > > > On bootup with a JAZ drive, I ejected the cartridge and FreeBSD failed to > boot up. > > Heaps of messages about SCB's timing out, ahc0 not responding, unknowns, > etc. > > Curiously it is scanning all the targets and all their LUNs. Will have > to wait longer to see if it actually boots, it's quite slow this :) Well, it booted eventually. This is what dmesg contained: [start is here, guess it ran out of buffer space :] (ahc0:13:4): "unknown unknown ????" type 13 fixed SCSI 0 uk60(ahc0:13:4): Unknown ahc0: board is not responding (ahc0:13:5): SCB 0xb6 timedout while recovery in progress ahc0: board is not responding (ahc0:13:5): SCB 0xb7 timedout while recovery in progress ahc0: board is not responding cmd fail ... (ahc0:15:7): SCB 0xec timedout while recovery in progress ahc0: board is not responding (ahc0:15:7): SCB 0xed timedout while recovery in progress ahc0: board is not responding cmd fail (ahc0:15:7): SCB 0xee timedout while recovery in progress (ahc0:15:7): "unknown unknown ????" type 13 fixed SCSI 0 uk79(ahc0:15:7): Unknown Probing for devices on the ISA bus: ...isa probing... DEVFS: ready to run ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers uk79(ahc0:15:7): SCB 0x0 - timed out in command phase, SCSISIGI == 0x56 SEQADDR = 0x47 SCSISEQ = 0x12 SSTAT0 = 0x7 SSTAT1 = 0x17 uk79(ahc0:15:7): no longer in timeout ahc0: Issued Channel A Bus Reset. 239 SCBs aborted To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 09:17:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27750 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:17:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27745 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA19478; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:17:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:17:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Greg Skafte cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? In-Reply-To: <19980626113231.B11941@worldgate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Greg Skafte wrote: > > >2) Will there be any problems using up to 8 Intel Etherexpress Pro > > >10/100's? If so, can I use a combination of those and some DEC > > >21[0,1]4[0,1] cards? > > > > It should work, but I don't know that anyone has actually tried this. > > not having any problems with this scenario on our net .... > in one of our machines we have 3 of the quad DEC 21x4x cards... > the big issue here is the density of the ethernet jacks .... > they are a little close together.... makes it hard to fix > cable issues .... Thanks. I'll keep this in mind if I can't go the other route. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 10:16:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04880 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:16:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04875 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:16:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19648; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:16:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:16:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: IBS / Andre Oppermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? In-Reply-To: <3594DFEA.EFA2CC9E@pipeline.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, IBS / Andre Oppermann wrote: > Chris Dillon wrote: > -snip- > > As for the "main PCI bus" being the bottleneck, I'm really hoping they > > used three host-to-PCI bridges, and not a single host-to-PCI bridge and > > two PCI-to-PCI bridges. Even if not, I could push about 100MB/sec across > > the bus (assuming the CPU could push that), and thats more than enough > > for me. > > > > I imagine a Cisco of _equal price_ wouldn't even come close to the > > throughput I'm going to do. I could be wrong, of course. > > Even Cisco uses PCI in their routers... Then I suppose they would hit the same bottlenecks. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 11:02:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09157 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:02:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09046 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:02:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ernie!bert.kts.org!hm@ppp.net) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc2.ppp.net [194.64.12.42]) by mail.ppp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24962 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:02:02 +0200 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0ypzIX-002ZjjC; Sat, 27 Jun 98 20:02 MET DST Received: from bert.kts.org(really [194.55.156.2]) by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with smtp id for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:02:00 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #3 built 1998-Feb-14) Received: by bert.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:57:13 +0200 (CEST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #1 built 1998-Jun-6) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: PCVT's death In-Reply-To: from Heikki Suonsivu at "Jun 27, 98 04:08:03 pm" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:57:13 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Heikki Suonsivu wrote: > Yes, pcvt is obviously unsupported, currently we get a kernel panic on > plugging in the keyboard. Incidentially, it seems i have a related problem. I get a kernel panic sometimes when i switch (via some of those PC keyboard/monitor switches) to FreeBSD machines running pcvt. It seems to occur only then, when the machine is rebooted without the keyboard being connected to the machine in question; when the keyboard i connected during reboot, i cannot make this happen. The ddb panic message is cryptic. Its just a matter of time i have to do something about it to solve this. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe A duck is like a bicycle because they both have two wheels except the duck (terry@cs.weber.edu) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 11:13:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10154 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:13:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10149 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:13:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06000; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:13:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806271813.LAA06000@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extracting RPM archives In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:08:07 +0800." <199806270908.RAA15353@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:13:20 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just use the linux rpm tool. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 12:01:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14475 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:01:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles146.castles.com [208.214.165.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14464 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:01:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA15753; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806271900.MAA15753@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Matthew D. Fuller" , Peter van Heusden , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:26:24 BST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:00:42 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Jun 23, 9:48pm, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > } Subject: Re: Adding a new user interface to FreeBSD administration > > > So, the first step is to write scripts/programs to create/edit the > > > various config files: pppconfig, maybe some nice wrappers around pw, > > > syslogconf, even a profileconf and cshconf, heck, let's complicate things > > > more and make a rc.confconf. Just find every config file that people > > > > Eeek. I think this might have been a transitional approach of value > > some 4-5 years ago, but nowadays we have namespace pollution and the > > fact that front-ending things in this fashion is something which > > proved its limitations and went out of fashion almost a decade ago. > > If we're going to do something now, let's stick with 90's techniques > > at least. :-) > > What do you mean Jordan? A windows style registry? LDAP? Why do people insist on calling it "windows style"? We *definitely* need to dig up old Apollo machines and hand them around; preferably bouncing them off peoples' toes as we do. LDAP provides an access method for parametric information. It's open, working source is available, it supports everything we could want. If you want to play more with LDAP, Netscape have released their client API sources under the NPL; see http://www.mozilla.org. It builds shiny-clean under FreeBSD (which is a supported platform); this in conjunction with the UMich server gives us lots of infrastructure. If you're looking for a topic worth some serious discussion and perhaps debate, how about considering a naming scheme suitable for storing parametric attributes including, but not limited to: - system configuration data, both per-system and per-system-group (eg. netgroup) - application configuration, where the identifying tokens may include user, user-group, application, application-group, system, system-group. - user parametric information, per-user and per-user-group. Note that there are probably already RFCs covering some or all of these topics, with their own pros and cons. I'm inclined to hand the torch to Terry here, as this is more his domain than mine. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 13:23:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23207 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:23:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23174; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:23:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fewtch@serv.net) Received: from serv.net (dialup500.serv.net [207.207.70.65]) by mx.serv.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19449; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: fewtch@serv.net From: Tim Gerchmez To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Syquest SparQ Parallel Port driver... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, Anyone know if anybody is working on a FreeBSD driver for the Syquest SparQ parallel port drive, or if such a driver exists already in a beta stage? I've contacted ShuttleTech as well (probably useless) about this requesting any info. they can provide. Thanks for any info (plz Email me direct), Tim fewtch@serv.net ---------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: Tim Gerchmez Date: 27-Jun-98 Time: 13:19:41 This message was sent by XFMail under Fvwm2 and FREEBSD. My personal website is at http://www.serv.net/~fewtch/index.html Take a look if you have the time - something for everyone there. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 14:02:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29229 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:02:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orkan.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29223 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:02:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by orkan.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA22654 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:04:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:04:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans Reply-To: Jason Evans To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: raw devices (min transfer size, detection) In-Reply-To: <199806270645.XAA21564@usr08.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A number of people gave me useful suggestions on how to solve the problems I had, so here's a summary of what I found out along the way. Thanks everyone for your help. > 1) I need to know the minimum transfer size for the underlying device so > that I can intelligently write only the physical blocks that need > written, rather than an entire "logical" block as my code sees the > data. I've looked through physio() and friends, and it appears that > this information is deriveable from the buf struct that is passed in to > physio(). The problem is that this is all done behind the scenes. Can > I directly get at this info? It turns out that the st_blksize field of the stat structure is bogus (why, I don't know). The following code told me that the optimal transfer size is 64kB blocks. Yeah, whatever. =) { struct stat sb; if (-1 == fstat(fd, &sb)) { fprintf(stderr, "fstat() error: %s\n", strerror(errno)); } else { printf("optimal block size: %lu\n", sb.st_blksize); } } So, Julian Elischer suggested reading the disklabel via an ioctl(). That made sense to me, but the documentation on how to do so is apparently nonexistant. After reading system headers and the disklabel(8) source code, I found the appropriate ioctl(). { struct disklabel dlp; a_brbs_o->sect_size = 0; /* In case we don't manage to get the sector * size. */ if (ioctl(a_brbs_o->fd, DIOCGDINFO, &dlp) < 0) { fprintf(stderr, "ioctl() error: %s\n", strerror(errno)); /* Try to find the sector size the gross way. */ { #define _CW_BUF_POWER 13 cw_uint8_t buf[1 << _CW_BUF_POWER]; int i; for (i = 1; (i <= _CW_BUF_POWER); i++) #undef _CW_BUF_POWER { if (read(a_brbs_o->fd, &buf, 1 << (i - 1)) >= 0) { a_brbs_o->sect_size = 1 << (i - 1); break; } } } else { a_brbs_o->sect_size = dlp.d_secsize; } } } > 2) How can I programmatically (in C) know that a file is a device, and > more specifically a raw device? I've browsed a large number of > manpages, but I still haven't found the answer. I'll eventually find > it, but perhaps someone can point me in the right direction? =) This is the best I've been able to do in figuring out whether a file is a raw device. This isn't totally satisfactory though, since I think this test would show a tty (for example) as a raw device as well. Once again, I had to read system headers, because the S_ISCHR() macro wasn't mentioned in the stat manpage. Terry Lambert came the closest to pointing me directly at this one. void brbs_p_get_is_raw(cw_brbs_t * a_brbs_o) { struct stat sb; if (-1 == fstat(a_brbs_o->fd, &sb)) { fprintf(stderr, "fstat() error: %s\n", strerror(errno)); } else { if (S_ISCHR(sb.st_mode)) { a_brbs_o->is_raw = TRUE; /* Figure out how big the device is. */ a_brbs_o->max_size = lseek(a_brbs_o->fd, 0, SEEK_END); _cw_assert(a_brbs_o->max_size != -1); } else { a_brbs_o->is_raw = FALSE; } } } Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 15:05:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08878 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:05:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08870 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:05:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id AAA28616; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:05:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00603; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:01:47 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from wosch) Message-ID: <19980628000124.27599@panke.de> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:01:24 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extracting RPM archives References: <199806270908.RAA15353@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199806270908.RAA15353@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com>; from Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 05:08:07PM +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1998-06-27 17:08:07 +0800, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > Yeah I know it's from that other Unix, but does anyone have a tool to do this > (I'm trying to extract the sources to the 3dfx device drivers and all the > latest Linux Glide libs). Use rpm or rpm2cpio. There is also a rpm2cpio converter written in perl. http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/espel/hacks.html -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~w/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 16:38:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17837 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:38:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17832 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:38:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from river99@gte.net) From: river99@gte.net Received: from river99 (1Cust125.tnt18.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.118.125]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA15652 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806272337.QAA15652@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:02:00 To: Subject: Service Update Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Due to the significant and rapid policy changes recently implemented by many major Search Engines, we have updated our research so you may evaluate your site's exposure to the new risks and opportunities. http://www.sitestrategies98.com To unsubscribe, please click on the link below and enter your e-mail address. http://www.sitestrategies98.com/unsubscribe.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 23:26:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06370 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite.sentex.ca [199.212.134.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06361 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from ospf-mdt.sentex.net (ospf-mdt.sentex.net [205.211.164.81]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA15882; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 02:25:30 -0400 (EDT) From: mike@sentex.net (Mike Tancsa) To: cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us (Chris Dillon) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will 8 Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100's be a problem? Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 06:26:02 GMT Message-ID: <3595e10d.1180692826@mail.sentex.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99e/32.227 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:32:35 -0500 (CDT), in sentex.lists.freebsd.misc you wrote: >Within the next few months, i will be needing to set up a router for our >internal network, tying together 7 networks, with some room to grow. I >plan on buying a rather expensive chassis from Industrial Computer source. You could probably buy 3 plain-jane pentiums for the price of the fancy one you are talking about and not have to worry about cramming so many cards into one box and overloading the PCI bus. If the boxes are going to act as routers and NAT machines, you really dont need that much horse power/RAM/HD space. ---Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jun 27 23:59:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09255 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:59:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09249 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:59:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA28947; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 16:29:03 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980628162902.B28872@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 16:29:02 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Richard Foulk , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: RAID and FreeBSD References: <199806280531.TAA26134@pegasus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806280531.TAA26134@pegasus.com>; from Richard Foulk on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 07:31:09PM -1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'd appreciate me if you'd address your replies to me as well as to the list. I'm also following up to -hackers, since this isn't really a hardware issue. On Saturday, 27 June 1998 at 19:31:09 -1000, Richard Foulk wrote: >>> Even if you upgrade your RAID box (which happens much less often than >>> OS upgrades in my experience), the system is simpler >> >> That's a valid point. >> >>> and the RAID is much more likely to be just like the vendors units. >> >> I don't understand that. What are you saying? > > Software RAID, implemented as a device driver, is an integral part of > the OS kernel. The kernel is a large collection of device drivers and > tools for accessing hardware. With Unix that collection is different on > just about every host that runs it -- due to so many different hardware > configurations. Sure. What is the relevance? >>> With OS-based software RAID you'll almost never have a configuration >>> just like the vendor's. >> >> I still don't understand. Are you saying that configurability is a >> disadvantage? > > No. Complexity is a disadvantage. I still don't understand your original statement, then: > Even if you upgrade your RAID box (which happens much less often > than OS upgrades in my experience), the system is simpler and the > RAID is much more likely to be just like the vendors units. continuing, > I look at RAID as a large repository for treasures that are collected > over time. The host system is the toolset used to mine those treasures. > The toolset is constantly being revised and updated as we devise better > ways to manipulate the data. > > Though the data on the RAID is probably being revised and updated too, > the means of storing it probably isn't. > > RAID is a powerful way of scattering large amounts of bits among a > collection of disks. It raises my comfort level to be able to say that > that complex system has been working reliably (unchanged) for so many > months and I have reason to expect that it will continue doing so. No disagreement so far. > Unix is a fabulous operating system that does many things quite well. > One of it's shortcomings is that the kernel is usually one large > monolithic program which combines all of it's device drivers together > in the same address space. > > Any driver is free to scribble in the code or data of any other. True, but in practice this almost never happens. Kernel problems are usually much more subtle than that. > So unlike a hardware RAID which is relatively simple and well-tested > in comparison. This is an assertion that isn't necessarily true. We've seen plenty of bad controller code around. > The various Unix device drivers that one implementation brings into > play may not even have been used together before. Sure, but that's not a problem. > Being of widely varying pedigree, maturity and level of testing, any > one of these drivers is free to modify the guts of the software RAID > engine directly. I've been around UNIX for a long time, but I can't ever recall this kind of bug. You're really implying accidental modification of the text, which would almost never leave functional code behind. > Free to change the way the mass data spew amplifier (RAID) throws it's > data around. When it's working correctly the RAID spreads data among > it's drives pretty wildly. > > Change a bit or two in one of it's algorithms and look out! > > If the driver or associated hardware for your video, keyboard, mouse, > cd-rom, sound-card or printer malfunctions you fix it and go back to work. > > If your RAID fails, some of your hard-won treasure may be lost forever. True, depending on how it fails. I think your model of the UNIX is kernel is a little simplistic. The kind of bugs you describe are relatively rare. There are two kinds of bugs that can afflict software RAID: 1. Plain ordinary software bugs within the driver. These are particularly insidious because they're the main source of data corruption. Obviously, these can affect hardware RAID as well. The only difference is that the UNIX environment usually has better testing tools than most standalone boxes, and if a bug occurs, it's easier to fix it in a system which allows rebuilding the software easily. 2. Problems which stem from the interaction of different drivers, such as you describe above. These are absent in hardware solutions, of course. They're also very rare in FreeBSD, and when they do occur, they almost never cause data corruption. Recall also that you still have a disk driver when accessing a RAID box. The only difference is where a specific subset of the disk access logic is located. In summary, I don't think that you can infer that software solutions are less reliable than hardware solutions. My expectation was that the main advantage of a hardware RAID solution would be the improved performance, but you deny this. Let's see if the change of mailing list gets some other viewpoints. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message