From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jun 8 08:55:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06143 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:55:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amber.ccs.neu.edu (root@amber.ccs.neu.edu [129.10.111.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06113 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:55:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ggal@ccs.neu.edu) Received: from everest.ccs.neu.edu (ggal@everest.ccs.neu.edu [129.10.112.76]) by amber.ccs.neu.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA14779 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 11:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ggal@localhost) by everest.ccs.neu.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA25711; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 11:55:13 -0400 (EDT) From: George Gal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 11:55:13 -0400 (EDT) To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: subscribe X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13692.2384.789581.941708@everest.ccs.neu.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jun 9 06:39:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22580 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 06:39:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22552 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 06:39:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA21083; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:41:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:41:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Dinesh Nair Subject: Vacations :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, This is only to let you know that I'm on vacations from 11.06 to 25.06, in case anyone would look for me... Andrzej Bialecki --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@nask.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jun 10 22:23:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22693 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:23:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.83.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22664 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:23:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Received: (from luomat@localhost) by luomat.peak.org (0.0.0/0.0.0) id BAA03951 for freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 01:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806110523.BAA03951@luomat.peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 01:23:34 -0400 To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Wow, cool! It worked! Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alrighty, well cool, I got it to boot and I logged in. I got one error message: "uncompressing kernel -- warning malloc wrapped" No idea what that means, but hey. Alrighty, now I have a 146mb hard drive in this machine (486dx/66/16ram). I have 1 IP address. I have 2 other machines. I have two Ethernet cards (EtherExpress PRO/10+ ISA) Do I have to compile my own picoBSD to get this machine setup as a router firewall? I don't need/want it to do anything other than pass and deny packets. Pointers appreciated! TjL To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jun 10 23:32:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03765 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:32:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles69.castles.com [208.214.165.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03757 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:32:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01068; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806110528.WAA01068@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Timothy J Luoma cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wow, cool! It worked! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Jun 1998 01:23:34 EDT." <199806110523.BAA03951@luomat.peak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:27:59 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Alrighty, well cool, I got it to boot and I logged in. > > I got one error message: > > "uncompressing kernel -- warning malloc wrapped" > > No idea what that means, but hey. It comes from the kzip uncompressor; it may reflect either a bug in the decompression routine or just a particular pattern of activity that leads to it running out of its (small) pseudo-malloc pool. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jun 10 23:35:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04047 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:35:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from belzebub.net-gw.com (bulzebub.net-gw.com [202.185.254.12] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA04011 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:35:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dinesh@alphaque.com) Received: from broker.alphaque.com (j13.brf51.jaring.my [161.142.235.251]) by belzebub.net-gw.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA23317; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 14:34:56 +0800 Received: (from dinesh@localhost) by broker.alphaque.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00488; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 14:03:29 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from dinesh) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 14:03:29 +0800 (MYT) From: Dinesh Nair X-Sender: dinesh@broker To: Timothy J Luoma cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wow, cool! It worked! In-Reply-To: <199806110523.BAA03951@luomat.peak.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Timothy J Luoma wrote: > I got one error message: > > "uncompressing kernel -- warning malloc wrapped" that's ok, it's ignorable without any ramifications. > Do I have to compile my own picoBSD to get this machine setup as a router > firewall? I don't need/want it to do anything other than pass and deny > packets. the vanilla net flavour is what you need. it does have natd and ip firewall inside. take a look at the handbook at www.freebsd.org/handbook/ to see how to configure ipfw. you should also take a look at /etc/rc.firewall on the PicoBSD floppy. there are already stock configurations for these and you can choose the correct one by setting the firewall_type variable in /etc/rc.conf. you'll most likely be using the simple firewall type with some minor modifications of rules to cater to your network. in fact, i am using such a configuration for a dual hosted 386 with picoBSD at the moment. Regards, /\_/\ "All dogs go to heaven." dinesh@alphaque.com (0 0) +=======================----oOO--(_)--OOo----=========================+ |for a in past present future; do | | for b in clients employers associates relatives neighbours pets; do | | echo "The opinions here in no way reflect the opinions of my $a $b."| |done; done | +=====================================================================+ http://pgp.ai.mit.edu/htbin/pks-extract-key.pl?op=get&search=0x230096E9 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jun 10 23:44:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05078 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:44:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.83.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05060 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Received: (from luomat@localhost) by luomat.peak.org (0.0.0/0.0.0) id CAA12111 for freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 02:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806110644.CAA12111@luomat.peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 02:44:08 -0400 To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Followup to: Wow, cool! It worked! References: Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have no knowledge of PC hardware. I have two 'Intel EtherExpress PRO/10+ ISA' cards I want to put in the machine, one for the cable modem (to Internet) and one to hub (internal lan, just 2 machines) How do I tell FBSD they are there ? Will it be PnP (I know, nothing is that easy, but I figured I'd throw it out anyway) ? Any pointers appreciated... the smaller the words the better ;-) Thanks! TjL To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 05:03:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29175 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 05:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kremvax.demos.su (kremvax.demos.su [194.87.0.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA29168 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 05:03:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from forsys!kate@kremvax.demos.su) Received: by kremvax.demos.su (8.6.13/D) from root@localhost for freebsd-small@freebsd.org id QAA00360; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:02:15 +0400 Received: (from kate@localhost) by ns.forsys.msk.ru (8.8.7/8.6.9) id PAA04054; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:54:12 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:54:12 +0400 (MSD) From: "Ekaterina N. Ivannikova" To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: netstat is not working Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, I am experimenting with my own floppy based on PicoBSD ideas, however netstat and dmesg are not working. According to the error message kvm_open can not find /kernel to get nlist from. Since kernel is kziped, using netstat -N //kernel should not help very much. Nevertheless "isp" and "net" PicoBSD versions do include netstat. What am I missing ? Another question: Is there any way of using multiple virtual consoles without overhead of getty, login & Co. short of writing one's one getty ? Any help very much appreciated. Ekaterina To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 07:26:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26366 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 07:26:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles322.castles.com [208.214.167.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26338 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 07:26:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA01705; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 06:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806111321.GAA01705@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Ekaterina N. Ivannikova" cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netstat is not working In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:54:12 +0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 06:21:33 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I am experimenting with my own floppy based on PicoBSD ideas, however > netstat and dmesg are not working. According to the error message kvm_open > can not find /kernel to get nlist from. Since kernel is kziped, using > netstat -N //kernel should not help > very much. Nevertheless "isp" and "net" PicoBSD versions do include netstat. > What am I missing ? Some of the netstat functions may work without needing to read the kernel symbol table. What you're missing is a netstat that doesn't need to do that crap. 8( > Another question: > Is there any way of using multiple virtual consoles without overhead of > getty, login & Co. short of writing one's one getty ? Sure; just start a shell pointed at the correct vty directly. You can only switch to a vty that has something running on it, but you don't need to be using getty, login or even init. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 13:57:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27454 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 13:57:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27291 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 13:56:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jddst19@srg.psych.pitt.edu) Received: from srg.psych.pitt.edu (srg.psych.pitt.edu [136.142.64.27]) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by srg.psych.pitt.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:06:27 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Duncan, John" To: "'freebsd-small@freebsd.org'" Subject: FreeBSD for PalmPilot/Palm III Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:06:25 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi guys- Is anyone on this list interested in FreeBSD for handheld computers, notably the PalmPilot and the Palm III? If so, I'd like to join the discussion, and if not, it would be interesting to create it. If you haven't noticed, there is a Linux development team for the Pilot. I think it would be cool to see what are the truly necessary parts of FreeBSD, and to what extent FreeBSD can be implemented on a small machine like the Pilot. One thing is for sure: the Pilot version can only keep the "Spirit of FreeBSD" and not borrow too much of the actual source--the chip is Motorola's Dragonball 68328 Integrated Microcomputer which resembles a 68000 with lots of added hardware. All of it is dissimilar to anything FreeBSD runs on now. A major benefit of this project would be the ability to translate small source onto the large model and make FreeBSD Amiga, FreeBSD NeXT, etc. We could also go into versions for WindowsCE machines. After all, who really wants WindowsCE? It's junk. What could be really cool would be to create a FreeBSD EEPROM for some of those CE machines and let people replace it. In the future, Palm machines will be Flash-upgradeable, which makes the capacity to which an alternative OS can run much greater. For now, the PalmPilot Professional and better have a TCP/IP stack, Serial, Graphics and Input libraries, and a number of hidden "features" that make hacking it a bit like hacking a Macintosh. Actually, a lot like hacking a Mac. In addition, the EEPROM is easy to get at, and thus can be replaced. 3Com is much nicer to their owners than Apple used to be as far as tweaking these little machines, so if this list were to talk to them we might find out a lot about what can be done. If people are interested, let's get this discussion going. One request: if you don't think that this is a worthwhile venture, please don't go off about how you think it's stupid, unreasonable, unfeasible. In a way, the PDA is all of these things, but there's no reason to keep UNIX off of them. Besides... Are we going to let Linux and Microsoft get the better of this market? -John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 16:20:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27025 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:20:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26813 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:20:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01080; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806112215.PAA01080@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Duncan, John" cc: "'freebsd-small@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: FreeBSD for PalmPilot/Palm III In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:06:25 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:14:59 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi guys- > > Is anyone on this list interested in FreeBSD for handheld computers, > notably the PalmPilot and the Palm III? If so, I'd like to join the > discussion, and if not, it would be interesting to create it. > > If you haven't noticed, there is a Linux development team for the Pilot. The version of "Linux" that runs on the Pilot has no VM. Unlike Linux, where the VM is still more or less an afterthought, FreeBSD lives and breathes through the VM system. Motorola's Dragonball (the CPU in the Pilot) has no PMMU, so no VM. > We could also go into versions for WindowsCE machines. After all, who > really wants WindowsCE? It's junk. What could be really cool would be to > create a FreeBSD EEPROM for some of those CE machines and let people > replace it. Most CE machines are too short-lifed and closed architecture-wise to be worth porting to. By the time you'd worked out how they were laid out, the few of the model you had still in existence would be in the bottom of 10-year-old kids' sock drawers. 8( > One request: if you don't think that this is a worthwhile venture, > please don't go off about how you think it's stupid, unreasonable, > unfeasible. In a way, the PDA is all of these things, but there's no > reason to keep UNIX off of them. Besides... Are we going to let Linux > and Microsoft get the better of this market? It's not stupid, but it is relatively unfeasible to do anything really useful with FreeBSD in a VM-less environment. OTOH, for less than twice the cost of a Palm-III you can buy an easily-overclockable Toshiba Libretto 50, which runs FreeBSD, has a 640x480 colour screen, a keyboard and takes honkin' big disks. Tell you what I'd want to spend my time on. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 16:42:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02185 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:42:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peak.org (root@PEAK.ORG [198.68.22.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02037 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:41:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@peak.org) Received: from localhost (luomat@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peak.org (8.8.5/8.6.7) with SMTP id QAA25182 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:41:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Timothy J. Luoma" X-Sender: luomat@kira To: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PicoBSD Intel EtherExpress Pro/10+ _ISA_ supprt? Message-ID: Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep X-FTP: ftp://ftp.next.peak.org/pub/next/ X-URL: http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does PicoBSD support the ISA version of the EtherExpress card? I still don't know much about it, but during the boot I saw: ed0 not found at 0x280 (and) ed1 not found at 0x300 I tried setting the card's setting to 280-28fh and 300-30fh and neither of those seemed to work. TjL To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 18:08:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21530 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:08:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21417 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:08:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01604; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806120002.RAA01604@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Timothy J. Luoma" cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PicoBSD Intel EtherExpress Pro/10+ _ISA_ supprt? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:41:44 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:02:44 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Does PicoBSD support the ISA version of the EtherExpress card? I still > don't know much about it, but during the boot I saw: > > ed0 not found at 0x280 (and) > ed1 not found at 0x300 > > I tried setting the card's setting to 280-28fh and 300-30fh and neither of > those seemed to work. The EtherExpress card is supported by the 'ie' driver. 'ed' is for the (cheaper, faster) NE2000 and similar. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 18:27:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25609 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.83.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25597 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:27:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Received: (from luomat@localhost) by luomat.peak.org (0.0.0/0.0.0) id VAA12973; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:26:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806120126.VAA12973@luomat.peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199806120002.RAA01604@dingo.cdrom.com> From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 21:26:40 -0400 To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: PicoBSD Intel EtherExpress Pro/10+ _ISA_ supprt? cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199806120002.RAA01604@dingo.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Author: Mike Smith Original-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:02:44 -0700 Message-ID: <199806120002.RAA01604@dingo.cdrom.com> > The EtherExpress card is supported by the 'ie' driver. Sorry but I don't see any 'ie' entries when p-FBSD boots. Does it have to be recompiled? > 'ed' is for the (cheaper, faster) NE2000 and similar. I heard those were unreliable.... TjL To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 18:34:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26521 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:34:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26489 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:34:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01734; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806120028.RAA01734@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Timothy J Luoma cc: Mike Smith , small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PicoBSD Intel EtherExpress Pro/10+ _ISA_ supprt? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:26:40 EDT." <199806120126.VAA12973@luomat.peak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:28:09 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Author: Mike Smith > Original-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:02:44 -0700 > Message-ID: <199806120002.RAA01604@dingo.cdrom.com> > > > The EtherExpress card is supported by the 'ie' driver. > > Sorry but I don't see any 'ie' entries when p-FBSD boots. > > Does it have to be recompiled? Sounds like it, yes. > > 'ed' is for the (cheaper, faster) NE2000 and similar. > > I heard those were unreliable.... Where from? The 'ed' driver is the most reliable and fastest of the ISA ethernet drivers in FreeBSD; with a $20 NE2000 clone I can easily saturate a 10Mbps ethernet. Until just recently when we upgraded to 100Mbps, the freebsd.org cluster was using the 'ed' driver on a mix of NE2000 and WD8013 cards. There's nothing inherently unreliable about them, no. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 18:41:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27881 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:41:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.83.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27812 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:40:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Received: (from luomat@localhost) by luomat.peak.org (0.0.0/0.0.0) id VAA14766 for small@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806120140.VAA14766@luomat.peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199806120028.RAA01734@dingo.cdrom.com> From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 21:40:34 -0400 To: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PicoBSD Intel EtherExpress Pro/10+ _ISA_ supprt? References: <199806120028.RAA01734@dingo.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Author: Mike Smith Original-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:28:09 -0700 Message-ID: <199806120028.RAA01734@dingo.cdrom.com> > > > 'ed' is for the (cheaper, faster) NE2000 and similar. > > > > I heard those were unreliable.... > > Where from? The 'ed' driver is the most reliable and fastest of the > ISA ethernet drivers in FreeBSD; with a $20 NE2000 clone I can easily > saturate a 10Mbps ethernet. Oh, sorry, I meant the NE2000 cards NOT the 'ed' drivers. I don't know anything about the FreeBSD drivers.... TjL To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 21:19:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25217 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:19:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.safemail.com (ns2.safemail.com [204.89.219.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25200 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:18:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tinker@safemail.com) Received: from thinkpad.safemail.com (hawk.safemail.com [204.89.219.4]) by ns2.safemail.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA01282 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:18:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002401bd95b9$31e7b8c0$04db59cc@thinkpad.safemail.com> From: "william.o.yates" To: Subject: subscribe Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:18:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01BD957E.8534F460" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BD957E.8534F460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable subscribe ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BD957E.8534F460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BD957E.8534F460-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 21:51:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29271 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:51:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from members.unlimited.net (root@members.unlimited.net [208.193.101.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29257 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:51:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from norami@unlimited.net) Received: from unlimited.net (ts2-71.unlimited.net [208.193.101.71]) by members.unlimited.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19026; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:58:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3580B4CE.3AD23113@unlimited.net> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:55:42 -0700 From: John Oram Reply-To: norami@unlimited.net Organization: norAmi X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Duncan, John" CC: "'freebsd-small@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: FreeBSD for PalmPilot/Palm III References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Abstract The Itsy Pocket Computer is a small handheld computer based on the low-power, high-performance StrongARM SA-1100 microprocessor. Our current prototype runs at 200MHz on a pair of AAA batteries, and sports a tiny, high-resolution LCD touchscreen, a high-quality audio codec, and up to 64MB of memory. Itsy is designed to be an open platform for research projects ranging from OS power management to novel gesture and speech-based user interfaces. The base Itsy hardware provides a flexible interface for adding a custom daughtercard, enabling a wide range of hardware projects such as wireless networking and GPS. Itsy also supports the Linux OS and standard GNU tools, facilitating the development of both kernel and application software, as well as ports of existing packages such as Apache." This's could an interesting idea for FreeBSD too. John O Duncan, John wrote: > > Hi guys- > > Is anyone on this list interested in FreeBSD for handheld computers, > notably > the PalmPilot and the Palm III? If so, I'd like to join the discussion, > and if not, > it would be interesting to create it. > > If you haven't noticed, there is a Linux development team for the Pilot. > > I think it would be cool to see what are the truly necessary parts of > FreeBSD, and to what extent FreeBSD can be implemented on a small > machine like the Pilot. One thing is for sure: the Pilot version can > only > keep the "Spirit of FreeBSD" and not borrow too much of the actual > source--the chip is Motorola's Dragonball 68328 Integrated Microcomputer > which resembles a 68000 with lots of added hardware. All of it is > dissimilar > to anything FreeBSD runs on now. A major benefit of this project would > be > the ability to translate small source onto the large model and make > FreeBSD > Amiga, FreeBSD NeXT, etc. > > We could also go into versions for WindowsCE machines. After all, who > really wants WindowsCE? It's junk. What could be really cool would be to > create a FreeBSD EEPROM for some of those CE machines and let people > replace it. > > In the future, Palm machines will be Flash-upgradeable, which makes the > capacity to which an alternative OS can run much greater. For now, the > PalmPilot Professional and better have a TCP/IP stack, Serial, Graphics > and > Input libraries, and a number of hidden "features" that make hacking it > a bit > like hacking a Macintosh. Actually, a lot like hacking a Mac. In > addition, the > EEPROM is easy to get at, and thus can be replaced. 3Com is much nicer > to their owners than Apple used to be as far as tweaking these little > machines, so if this list were to talk to them we might find out a lot > about what > can be done. > > If people are interested, let's get this discussion going. > > One request: if you don't think that this is a worthwhile venture, > please don't > go off about how you think it's stupid, unreasonable, unfeasible. In a > way, the > PDA is all of these things, but there's no reason to keep UNIX off of > them. > Besides... Are we going to let Linux and Microsoft get the better of > this market? > > -John > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 23:22:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10187 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 23:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from belzebub.net-gw.com (bulzebub.net-gw.com [202.185.254.12] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA10067 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 23:21:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dinesh@alphaque.com) Received: from broker.alphaque.com (j7.brf51.jaring.my [161.142.235.245]) by belzebub.net-gw.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA29806; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 14:20:36 +0800 Received: (from dinesh@localhost) by broker.alphaque.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00561; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:08:46 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from dinesh) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:08:46 +0800 (MYT) From: Dinesh Nair X-Sender: dinesh@broker To: Timothy J Luoma cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PicoBSD Intel EtherExpress Pro/10+ _ISA_ supprt? In-Reply-To: <199806120126.VAA12973@luomat.peak.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Timothy J Luoma wrote: > Sorry but I don't see any 'ie' entries when p-FBSD boots. > Does it have to be recompiled? the floppy images downloaded from andrzej's web site or mine both have out of the box support for the ed and ep drivers. if you were to download the build scripts, you'd note that the ie driver has been commented out in the kernel config file. just rebuild it with the driver uncommented. > > 'ed' is for the (cheaper, faster) NE2000 and similar. > > I heard those were unreliable.... i've been using the ed driver on clone NE2000s for quite a while and there've been no problems to date. these machines are usually heavily loaded webservers and mailservers. Regards, /\_/\ "All dogs go to heaven." dinesh@alphaque.com (0 0) +=======================----oOO--(_)--OOo----=========================+ |for a in past present future; do | | for b in clients employers associates relatives neighbours pets; do | | echo "The opinions here in no way reflect the opinions of my $a $b."| |done; done | +=====================================================================+ http://pgp.ai.mit.edu/htbin/pks-extract-key.pl?op=get&search=0x230096E9 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jun 11 23:24:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10634 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 23:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.83.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA10602 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 23:24:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Received: by luomat.peak.org (8.9.0/0.0.0) id CAA14156 for freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 02:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806120624.CAA14156@luomat.peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 02:24:23 -0400 To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PicoBSD Intel EtherExpress Pro/10+ _ISA_ supprt? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Author: Dinesh Nair Original-Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:08:46 +0800 (MYT) Message-ID: > the floppy images downloaded from andrzej's web site or mine both have > out of the box support for the ed and ep drivers. if you were to download > the build scripts, you'd note that the ie driver has been commented out > in the kernel config file. just rebuild it with the driver uncommented. Ah... yes, well, that would require that I had a full installation from which to rebuild from.... which I don't, but am beginning to suspect I will not be able to live without. > > > 'ed' is for the (cheaper, faster) NE2000 and similar. > > > > I heard those were unreliable.... > > i've been using the ed driver on clone NE2000s for quite a while and > there've been no problems to date. these machines are usually heavily > loaded webservers and mailservers. As I mentioned in a followup, I was referring to the NE2000s rather than the driver, but apparently this too was not the case. TjL To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jun 12 00:33:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA24879 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:33:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles357.castles.com [208.214.167.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24761 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:33:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00835; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 23:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806120628.XAA00835@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: norami@unlimited.net cc: "Duncan, John" , "'freebsd-small@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: FreeBSD for PalmPilot/Palm III In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:55:42 PDT." <3580B4CE.3AD23113@unlimited.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 23:28:23 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yes, I want one of these. As there is rumoured to be a StrongARM port of FreeBSD in the pipeline, or at the very least one could run RiscBSD on it, I'd consider it very desirable. > This's could an interesting idea for FreeBSD too. Sure, as soon as you can *buy* one, or get documentation to build one. Right now there's nothing but a low-rez picture of the device, and it doesn't look all that flash... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jun 12 07:59:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25619 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 07:59:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bolero-x.rahul.net (root@bolero.rahul.net [192.160.13.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA25605 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 07:59:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from randyd@inreach.com) Received: from q.bolero.rahul.net (bolero.rahul.net) by bolero-x.rahul.net with SMTP id AA25548 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 12 Jun 1998 07:59:20 -0700 Received: (qmail 25529 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1998 14:59:17 -0000 Received: from dyn116.rahul.net (HELO randyd.rahul.net) (206.61.225.116) by bolero.rahul.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1998 14:59:17 -0000 Message-Id: <35814208.248A@inreach.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 07:58:16 -0700 From: Randy Devol Reply-To: randyd@rahul.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: norami@unlimited.net Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for PalmPilot/Palm III References: <3580B4CE.3AD23113@unlimited.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Oram wrote: > > > > "Abstract > > The Itsy Pocket Computer is a small handheld computer based on the > low-power, high-performance StrongARM SA-1100 microprocessor. Our > current prototype runs at 200MHz on a pair of AAA batteries, and sports > a tiny, high-resolution LCD touchscreen, a high-quality audio codec, > and up to 64MB of memory. Sounds interesting. When I try to visit that URL, I get asked for a password. Is there an ID and password that I can use to visit the site? -=O=- Randy In "A Scanner Darkly," was Philip K. Dick foreshadowing Web commerce: "Someday, he thought, it'll be mandatory that we all sell the McDonald's hamburger as well as buy it; we'll sell it back and forth to each other forever from our living rooms." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jun 13 05:21:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA11364 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 05:21:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kremvax.demos.su (kremvax.demos.su [194.87.0.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA11350 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 05:21:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from forsys!kate@kremvax.demos.su) Received: by kremvax.demos.su (8.6.13/D) from root@localhost id QAA20711; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:19:43 +0400 Received: (from kate@localhost) by ns.forsys.msk.ru (8.8.7/8.6.9) id QAA15342; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:05:17 +0400 (MSD) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:05:16 +0400 (MSD) From: "Ekaterina N. Ivannikova" To: Mike Smith cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netstat is not working In-Reply-To: <199806111321.GAA01705@antipodes.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > Some of the netstat functions may work without needing to read the > kernel symbol table. What you're missing is a netstat that doesn't > need to do that crap. 8( > Ok, it seems the way to go would be to make dumpnlist dump addresses netstat needs, then change it to read the file "symbols". > > Another question: > > Is there any way of using multiple virtual consoles without overhead of > > getty, login & Co. short of writing one's one getty ? > > Sure; just start a shell pointed at the correct vty directly. You can > only switch to a vty that has something running on it, but you don't > need to be using getty, login or even init. > I'd hate to sound like an imbecille but still: _how_ ? If I am in single user mode on console (/dev/ttyv0) # sh < /dev/ttyv1 > /dev/ttyv1 & makes the keyboard scream. Without "&" I can't use the first shell until the second exits. In multiuser mode init opens ttys read only, so substituting /bin/sh for getty in /etc/ttys makes it start and exit in a loop. Thanks for your help. Ekaterina To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jun 13 12:41:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27696 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:41:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles301.castles.com [208.214.167.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27688 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:41:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00571; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806131836.LAA00571@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Ekaterina N. Ivannikova" cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netstat is not working In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:05:16 +0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:36:30 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Another question: > > > Is there any way of using multiple virtual consoles without overhead of > > > getty, login & Co. short of writing one's one getty ? > > > > Sure; just start a shell pointed at the correct vty directly. You can > > only switch to a vty that has something running on it, but you don't > > need to be using getty, login or even init. > > > I'd hate to sound like an imbecille but still: _how_ ? Write a small program that opens the vty, makes it it's controlling terminal, points stdin, stdout and stderr at it, and then execs $SHELL. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jun 13 12:59:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29407 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:59:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from loas.clark.net (mail.clark.net [168.143.0.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29380 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:59:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gbh@middlemarch.net) From: gbh@middlemarch.net Received: from shell.clark.net (gbh@clark.net [168.143.0.8]) by loas.clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA12915 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 15:59:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: gbh@shell.clark.net To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: subscribing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I found mention of this mailing list at the www.freebsd.org/~abial/ web page, but there are no instructions on how to subscribe. Could someone let me know how to subscribe. Thanks, Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jun 13 17:40:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28768 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 17:40:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA28760 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 17:40:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jddst19@srg.psych.pitt.edu) Received: from srg.psych.pitt.edu (srg.psych.pitt.edu [136.142.64.27]) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 20:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by srg.psych.pitt.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 20:50:12 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Duncan, John" To: "'Mike Smith'" , "'freebsd-small@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: FreeBSD for PalmPilot/Palm III Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 20:50:10 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id RAA28761 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Smith [SMTP:mike@smith.net.au] > Sent: Saturday, June 13, 1998 7:05 PM > To: Duncan, John > Subject: Re: FreeBSD for PalmPilot/Palm III > > I presume this was meant to be a reply... > > > > The version of "Linux" that runs on the Pilot has no VM. Unlike > > > Linux, > > > where the VM is still more or less an afterthought, FreeBSD lives > and > > > breathes through the VM system. > > > > > > Motorola's Dragonball (the CPU in the Pilot) has no PMMU, so no > VM. > > > > > > [-- ] Yes, it has no PMMU. It does have support for segmented > memory. > > > The Macintosh used segmented memory extensively. What is lacking > on > > > the Dragonball is memory protection hardware. What is notable > about > > > segmented memory is that it is possible to do the protection in > > > software. > > > (OS2 1.0) This is not desirable with paging. > > It's not a question of memory protection, but rather demand-related > activities, and the ability for one piece of physical memory to appear > in several locations in a disjoint fashion. You can't do this > equivalen > tly with segmentation. > > [-- ] Demand-segmentation models have been around at least as long > as demand-paging models. Segmentation, though, views memory with > larger chunks and different attributes. This means that the memory > model > doesn't translate identically from a paged system to a segmented > system, > but it doesn't rule them out... Segmented systems can, in fact, share > memory with differing addresses. This is especially possible when > there > is a large address space and very little physical memory. > > > > There is little reason why VM can't be done with segmentation. > There > > > is > > > also little reason why VM is entirely necessary in a machine with > no > > > swap. > > Here you make it clear that you didn't grasp the importance if what I > said above - FreeBSD lives and breathes through the VM system. VM is > not something "just for swap"; it's critical for almost everything > involving communications between the kernel and userspace, not to > mention interprocess communications and the filesystem. > > [-- ] Why do you have to attack my knowledge of computer science? > Most > operating systems require their memory systems; and some require > features > in their memory systems to be available. I wouldn't disagree with > anyone who > insisted that FreeBSD is an advanced operating system. > > VM is, essentially, a product of a memory model that allows > non-existant > addresses to function. This is usually for swap, but it also has other > purposes. > One can have a paged or a segmented address space that provides all of > the features of protected memory; and the protection does not have to > occur > in hardware. This just makes it faster. VM is not shared memory, it is > not > protected memory. VM is virtual memory. We look at a virtual memory > model > as one that provides protection mechanisms and uses them in such a way > that memory does not have to be in the same place. It is possible, and > feasible, > to segment memory such that one can reference memory he does not > own, and such that the operating system can move memory where it wants > it. Certain features are interesting to embedded systems. Certain > others are > not. In a slow machine with never more than one user, why would it be > desirable > to provide a full-featured memory model? It wouldn't. To provide a > compatible > one would be a good move. > > If code requires certain memory structures to be available, then it is > probably > bad code, or platform-specific code. How could a program be a good one > if, > for example, it required 4k pages? What would happen if someone were > to > run the thing on a different machine? Writing too much code like that > can only > cripple an OS's utility on other platforms. > > The major limitation to a segmented memory model is the loss of a flat > address space. I don't think that most programs people intend to run > on a little > palm-pilot would beg for more than the avg. segment size anyway. If > they do, > then I'd worry about the programmers who wrote the code. > > Even so, using demand-segmentation it is still possible to assign > different- > sized segments to a requestor. Provided that code does not rely on a > pointer > being in the same place after a realloc(), the code should work on > either a > paged or segmented model. > > > > The resultant system cannot be called FreeBSD, but it can look > very > > > similar. > > > Honestly, the core features of FreeBSD are the system calls and > the > > > unix-like interface to everything. Many other things are > > > afterthoughts; if not > > > to FreeBSD, they are afterthoughts to 4.4Lite, 3.0BSD, or V7, > > > somewhere > > > along the line. > > This puts the hypotheis that BSD has not changed fundamentally since > v7, which is a major error. > > [-- ] You failed to grasp my point. UN*X as it is now is one big > afterthought. The system was created as a quick and dirty testbed > for Dennis Ritchie's programs. Then it became a little operating > system used internally on DEC machines at Bell Labs. Through > modification after modification, the thing became the behemoth that > it is now. Even though Linux's VM system is obviously an afterthought > compared to Minix's lack of one, FreeBSD's VM is only an extension > of BSD's VM which was an afterthought to Bell's lack thereof. > > If you'd like a look at a system that was designed from the ground up > to have advanced features like VM, IPC, etc, then look at Mach. Unix's > fs and drivers are the afterthought to Mach's microkernel. > > For an interesting experiment into the necessity of even VM on an > operating system you should look at SPIN, which has VM included > as an extension, and OSF's kernel interface as an extension as well. > This doesn't mean that SPIN doesn't have a memory model, but the > VM is included separately for a number of reasons. > > If you seriously want to put an alternative operating system on a > Pilot, I would go looking at Minix, which is designed to work (and > work > well) on small, non-VM systems. It's now freely available for > downloading, and is not a bad place to start if you're porting for the > > first time. > > [-- ] Perhaps, but why not a larger and more usable system? Minix is > extremely limited. MachTen implemented 4.3BSD that ran on a 68k > without > memory hardware. What was so special about their system that couldn't > be done with FreeBSD? > > > > > We could also go into versions for WindowsCE machines. After > all, > > > who > > > > really wants WindowsCE? It's junk. What could be really cool > would > > > be to > > > > create a FreeBSD EEPROM for some of those CE machines and let > people > > > > replace it. > > > > > > Most CE machines are too short-lifed and closed architecture-wise > to > > > be > > > worth porting to. By the time you'd worked out how they were laid > > > out, > > > the few of the model you had still in existence would be in the > bottom > > > > > > of 10-year-old kids' sock drawers. 8( > > > > > > [-- ] Yes. But there must be a kernel of WCE machines with nicer > > > vendors. Why not look into it? > > There must? What makes you think this? And what makes you think that > > I haven't already looked into it? > > The core issue is that there is no such thing as "a WinCE machine". > WinCE is relatively portable, and each vendor buys a source license > and > then ports it to their own platform. In many cases, the production > version of this platform lacks the basic support for new OS > development. > > > > OTOH, for less than twice the cost of a Palm-III you can buy an > > > easily-overclockable Toshiba Libretto 50, which runs FreeBSD, has > a > > > 640x480 colour screen, a keyboard and takes honkin' big disks. > > > > > > [-- ] Doesn't fit into my shirt pocket. I tried.:) > > Put it in your jacket. You won't fit a Palm III and a Ricochet in > your > pocket either, so the point is somewhat moot. 8) > > -John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jun 13 22:43:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22619 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:43:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.83.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22595 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:42:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Received: by luomat.peak.org (8.9.0/0.0.0) id BAA08592; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 01:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806140542.BAA08592@luomat.peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Sun, 14 Jun 98 01:42:12 -0400 To: gbh@middlemarch.net Subject: Re: subscribing cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG References: Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Could someone let me know how to subscribe. Sure, send a message to majordomo@freebsd.org with the BODY (not Subject:) subscribe freebsd-small (don't put a tab before the word 'subscribe' though :-) It should email you back for confirmation, send in your authorization message, and voila. TjL, CC-ing the list in case anyone else wonders whether or not you were answered ps - Greg: nice to see you outside the Rhapsody/NeXT world ;-) I'm a total newbie in the FreeBSD world but have run into a couple NeXT-folk already To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message