From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 0:14:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A243415198 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:14:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.116]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAB5D92; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:14:43 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21729; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:05:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:05:56 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Chris Costello Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: porting,html glitch Message-ID: <19990627090556.A21719@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990627004724.D18321@daemon.ninth-circle.org> <19990626181221.D68075@holly.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <19990626181221.D68075@holly.dyndns.org>; from Chris Costello on Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 06:12:21PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Chris Costello (chris@calldei.com) [990627 06:02]: > On Sat, Jun 26, 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > Just want to verify with ye all before I diff -U and send-pr it ;) > > Hopefully you mean the sgml equivalent of porting.html! But offcourse, I was merely referring to the webpage as not everyone has access to the sgml pages. The diff will offcourse be against the sgml. regards, -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The *BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: We are back and will not accept no... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 0:54:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.yk.rim.or.jp (mail.yk.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36A431519D; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:54:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k-horik@yk.rim.or.jp) Received: from localhost (ppp996.yk.rim.or.jp [202.247.185.247]) by mail.yk.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.6W-RIMNET-98-06-09) with ESMTP id QAA04127; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:54:04 +0900 (JST) To: nclayton@lehman.com Cc: motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:08:31 +0100" <19990625120831.H15628@lehman.com> References: <19990625120831.H15628@lehman.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on Emacs 19.34 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990627165320N.k-horik@yk.rim.or.jp> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:53:20 +0900 From: Kazuo Horikawa X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 37 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Nik Clayton Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:08:31 +0100 > On Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 07:11:35PM +0900, Motoyuki Konno wrote: > > [snip] > > > Obviously, we'd lose the record of who did the actual commit (because it > > > would be me) and the precise time that the commit happened would be lost. > > > But the CVS deltas would be preserved. > > > > I cannot understand why you want to do such a complicated way. > > "Repository copy" is much more easier, I think. > > I agree with you in theory. However, John Polstra, one of the repository > managers, has already said that his free time to do this work is limited, > and that repository copies are fiddly anyway, with the increase of risk > involved. > > So he asked me to come up with a way that minimises the number of > repository copies that are necessary. Which is what I've done. Obviously, > there's a trade off in terms of the information that can be preserved if > you can't do a repository copy, and what I'm trying to do is strike the > right balance between what we keep and what we lose. Under doc/ja/man, there are following tags: tag=release_3_2_0 tag=release_3_1_0 tag=release_3_0_0 tag=release_2_2_7 tag=RELEASE_2_2_6 tag=release_2_2_5 We can retrieve Japanese online manuals for the RELEASE which the tag represents. It is quite useful to track translation error later. So, we do not want to lose the tags. -- Kazuo Horikawa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 4:46:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D60DE14C08; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 04:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id NAA24079; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 13:46:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by paula.panke.de.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.8.8) id NAA06487; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 13:24:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wosch) Message-ID: <19990627132408.44863@panke.de.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 13:24:08 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Tim Vanderhoek Cc: John Polstra , Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, Nik Clayton Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <199906240812.BAA57382@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990626205205.55151@panke.de.freebsd.org> <19990626163138.B63129@mad> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <19990626163138.B63129@mad>; from Tim Vanderhoek on Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 04:31:38PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1999-06-26 16:31:38 -0400, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > On Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 08:52:05PM +0200, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > > > > For example, it is evil to type: > > $ cvs co doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1 > > > > if you can do it with > > $ cvs co doc/en > > Okay, really here... > > cvs co docs-en > > It's easy enough to add a tag to CVSROOT/modules. This does not help much. The doc tree is fragile. You have to checkout doc/share too and make sure that all Makefiles find the files in doc/share (e.g.: .include "../../share/mk/docproj.docbook.mk") -- Wolfram Schneider http://wolfram.schneider.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 7:29:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from ns11.rim.or.jp (ns11.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D920414C4C; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 07:29:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp) Received: from rayearth.rim.or.jp (rayearth.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.242]) by ns11.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-ns11/RIMNET-2) with ESMTP id XAA15978; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:29:48 +0900 (JST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by rayearth.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-uucp1/RIMNET) with UUCP id XAA11620; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:29:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (localhost.snipe.rim.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id XAA06581; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:17:19 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199906271417.XAA06581@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Motoyuki Konno , Nik Clayton , Jun Kuriyama , doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation X-Mailer: mh-e on Mule 2.3 / Emacs 19.34.1 References: <67622.930333696@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:17:19 +0900 From: Motoyuki Konno Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > OK, so the Japanese folks have some sort of auto-conversion. That > takes care of strictly the Japanese language, but what about the > Chinese folks or the others that Nik pointed out? It seemed to me > that he was looking for a much wider convention here, not just a > solution to the ja problem. If you want to know more about this, please read Ken Lunde's book "CJKV Information Processing", from O'Reilly. # CJKV means Chinese, Japanese, Korean & Vietnamese. -------------------- For General: ISO-2022: ISO-2022 is a '7 bit encoding method', because all characters do not have their 8 bit enabled. So, ISO-2022 encoding is very useful for e-mail, netnews. EUC: EUC is short from 'Extended UNIX code'. Japanese -------- character set : JIS X 0208 encoding system: JIS, SJIS, EUC-JP o JIS : also known as 'ISO-2022-JP', used for e-mail, netnews. ISO-2022-JP is defined in RFC 1922. o SJIS : short from 'Shift JIS'. DOS/Windows computers and Macintosh use SJIS as internal code. o EUC-JP : most UNIX computers use EUC-JP as internal code. conversion between JIS, SJIS an EUC-JP is very easy. Korean ------ character set : KS X 1001 encoding system : ISO-2022-KR, EUC-KR o ISO-2022-KR : defined in RFC 1557. similar to ISO-2022-JP for Japanese. o EUC-KR : similar to EUC-JP for Japanese. I have heard that many Korean people use EUC-KR for e-mail, not ISO-2022-KR. Chinese Taiwan -------------- character set : CNS 11643 (traditional Chinese characters) also known as 'Big5' (*1). encoding system : ISO-2022-CN (*2), EUC-TW, Big5 o ISO-2022-CN : defined in RFC 1922. o EUC-TW : similar to EUC-JP for Japanese. o Big5 : Big5 encoding suports more characters than EUC-TW. Ken Lunde says 'It seems a bit silly to compare Big Five and EUC-TW encodings because they are so different from one another' in his 'CJKV' book. Chinese Mainland ---------------- character set : GB 2312 (simplified Chinese characters) encoding system : ISO-2022-CN (*2), EUC-CN, GBK o ISO-2022-CN : see the section 'Chinese Taiwan'. o EUC-CN : similar to EUC-JP for Japanese. o GBK : Windows computers use GBK as internal code. EUC-CN is a subset of GBK. *1: To be exact, CNS 11643 is corrected and supplemented version of 'Big5' *2: ISO-2022-CN supports both CNS (Taiwan) and GB (Chinese Mainland) character sets. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Motoyuki Konno mkonno@res.yamanashi-med.ac.jp (Univ) motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp (Home) motoyuki@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Project) Yamanashi Medical University http://www.freebsd.org/~motoyuki/ (WWW) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 7:30: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from ns11.rim.or.jp (ns11.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD06A14D8A; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 07:29:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp) Received: from rayearth.rim.or.jp (rayearth.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.242]) by ns11.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-ns11/RIMNET-2) with ESMTP id XAA15969; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:29:46 +0900 (JST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by rayearth.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-uucp1/RIMNET) with UUCP id XAA11613; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:29:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (localhost.snipe.rim.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id VAA06437; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:40:10 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> To: Nik Clayton Cc: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , nclayton@lehman.com, motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation X-Mailer: mh-e on Mule 2.3 / Emacs 19.34.1 References: <57461.930305624@zippy.cdrom.com> <199906251220.VAA22552@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990625150942.K15628@lehman.com> <199906252311.QAA04505@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990626014203.B71532@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:40:10 +0900 From: Motoyuki Konno Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Nik Clayton wrote: > * How many distinct languages are catered for in that directory? There's > no way to tell. > > * It's incredibly inconsistent. Look at > > en_US.utf/ US English, probably I think "en" is better. Because English is used in many countries (U.K., Austraria, New Zealand, etc.). > ja/ Japanese, but which encoding? > > ja.JIS/ JIS encoding, so the previous one is probably EUC 'ja.JIS' is not needed, I think. If both 'ja' and 'ja.JIS' exists, FreeBSD users will be confused. # I explained the reason why 'ja' is sufficient in the previous e-mail. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Motoyuki Konno mkonno@res.yamanashi-med.ac.jp (Univ) motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp (Home) motoyuki@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Project) Yamanashi Medical University http://www.freebsd.org/~motoyuki/ (WWW) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 9:15:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.kt.rim.or.jp (mail.kt.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977D414FA6; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:15:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp) Received: from moon.sky.rim.or.jp (ppp507.kt.rim.or.jp [202.247.140.157]) by mail.kt.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.6W-RIMNET-98-06-09) with ESMTP id BAA09046; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:15:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from sky.rim.or.jp (earth.sky.rim.or.jp [192.168.1.2]) by moon.sky.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl4/moon-1.0) with ESMTP id BAA26722; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:15:42 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <37764DE2.AE06DFBE@sky.rim.or.jp> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:14:26 +0900 From: Jun Kuriyama X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [ja] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <19990623231441.N42442@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <37724BD3.D1C377CC@sky.rim.or.jp> <19990625104500.F15628@lehman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nik Clayton wrote: > The first is the record that has submitted changes to the ... > The second is tieing to a specific piece of translation. If ... > Note that it's not impossible. I am prepared to take a local copy of the > CVS tree, generates diffs for *every single version* of the translated > documentation, and then recommit it with the original commit message, > including the "Submitted by" line. OK. But my main question is whether it is worth to spent much time of you and jdp or not. As Horikawa-san said, doc/ja/man directory needs special care for tags. doc/ja/man should be able to check out with release_3_2_0. But when check out doc directory with release_3_2_0 tag, it should not contain doc/ja_JP.EUC/man contents. I think this can solve to go old repository to doc/ja/man/*/Attic but this needs more careful CVS repository operation. > Suppose that we only had Japanese in there, in a "doc/ja" directory, > encoded with eucJP. In that directory is a Makefile, supporting the > standard targets (all, install, clean, etc). > > Everything works fine. This is pretty much what we have now. > > Suppose you want to provide hooks to let the admin automatically convert > the docs from eucJP to SJIS. As Satoshi points out, we have tools in > the ports tree that can do this. > > How do you do it? > > Well, the simplest approach is probably to patch the Makefile. Add a new > variable (perhaps called ${ENCODING}, or something like that) that holds > the default encoding. And add a test in the Makefile that says something > like "If ${ENCODING} is 'SJIS' then run the docs through the encoding > converter first, and then convert them to HTML or whatever". > > Nice and simple. But also wrong. The interface exposed by the Makefile > has changed. Instead of just being able to do "make install" you now have > this ${ENCODING} variable which you might need to set. At this point, I think you are right. We have dirty hack only to solve this situation. But I think no sysadmins need two encoded documents at the same time. -- Jun Kuriyama // kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp // kuriyama@FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 10:48:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765AA14BD5 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:48:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17202; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:48:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA46204; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:48:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990627165320N.k-horik@yk.rim.or.jp> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Kazuo Horikawa Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation Cc: freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@freebsd.org, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, nclayton@lehman.com Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kazuo Horikawa wrote: > > Under doc/ja/man, there are following tags: > tag=release_3_2_0 > tag=release_3_1_0 > tag=release_3_0_0 > tag=release_2_2_7 > tag=RELEASE_2_2_6 > tag=release_2_2_5 > > We can retrieve Japanese online manuals for the RELEASE which the tag > represents. It is quite useful to track translation error later. So, > we do not want to lose the tags. When we do repository copies, we always remove the tags from the new copies of the files. If we didn't do that, it would in effect change what already happened in the past. Suppose we copied foo,v to bar,v, and foo,v originally had the tags you listed above. We would remove those tags from bar,v. Otherwise, if you checked out the tree using "-r release_2_2_5" it would appear that file "bar" existed at that time -- which it didn't. By removing the tags, we avoid changing the past. If you checkout with "-r release_2_2_5" then you'll get file "foo" but not file "bar" -- just the same as if there had been no repository copy at all. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 11:23: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D541150B9 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 11:22:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04076; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 15:22:56 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199906271822.PAA04076@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Starting new translation, hints ? To: doc@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 15:22:56 -0300 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, A group in Brazil is working toward a portuguese (brazilian) version of FreeBSD documents. We are now in the process of FAQ text revision, as it could be seen at http://www.br.freebsd.org/faq/FAQ.html, for those who understand portuguese. The next step will be the handbook. I'd like to know if there are any known hints on keeping this translation up to date, following CVS closely, and how to integrate this to the main FreeBSD sources. These would direct the efforts from now on. Thanks in advance, Jonny -- João Carlos Mendes Luís jonny@jonny.eng.br Networking Engineer jcml@ieee.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 12:40:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from ns11.rim.or.jp (ns11.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1071530B; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:40:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp) Received: from rayearth.rim.or.jp (rayearth.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.242]) by ns11.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-ns11/RIMNET-2) with ESMTP id EAA17956; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:39:59 +0900 (JST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by rayearth.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-uucp1/RIMNET) with UUCP id EAA04275; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:39:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (localhost.snipe.rim.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id EAA10022; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:38:16 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199906271938.EAA10022@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> To: Motoyuki Konno Cc: Nik Clayton , Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , nclayton@lehman.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation X-Mailer: mh-e on Mule 2.3 / Emacs 19.34.1 References: <57461.930305624@zippy.cdrom.com> <199906251220.VAA22552@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990625150942.K15628@lehman.com> <199906252311.QAA04505@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990626014203.B71532@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:38:16 +0900 From: Motoyuki Konno Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry, My previous mail was incomplete. Nik Clayton wrote: Nik> * How many distinct languages are catered for in that directory? There's Nik> no way to tell. Nik> Nik> * It's incredibly inconsistent. Look at Nik> Nik> en_US.utf/ US English, probably motoyuki: m> I think "en" is better. Because English is used in many countries m> (U.K., Austraria, New Zealand, etc.). If we make the doc directory trees all over again, 'en_US.utf' may be good. But, there already exists 'doc/en' directory. Directory name change is a very hard work, as you know, so I think we should continue to use 'doc/en'. And, I don't like the name 'en_US.utf' because English is used in many countries in addition to United States. :-) Nik> ja/ Japanese, but which encoding? Nik> Nik> ja.JIS/ JIS encoding, so the previous one is probably EUC m> 'ja.JIS' is not needed, I think. If both 'ja' and 'ja.JIS' exists, m> FreeBSD users will be confused. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Motoyuki Konno mkonno@res.yamanashi-med.ac.jp (Univ) motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp (Home) motoyuki@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Project) Yamanashi Medical University http://www.freebsd.org/~motoyuki/ (WWW) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 16:39: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from encina.pntic.mec.es (encina.pntic.mec.es [193.144.238.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C39314E84 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:39:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from trep0001@encina.pntic.mec.es) Received: from encina.pntic.mec.es (infb128.pntic.mec.es [195.53.171.128]) by encina.pntic.mec.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA31222 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:37:17 +0200 Message-ID: <3776B934.8A652184@encina.pntic.mec.es> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:52:20 +0200 From: trep0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: translation into spanish Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I am willing to help you in the translation of the FreeBSD documentation from english into spanish. Wether you are interested or not, please do let me know (send me an email to trep0001@encina.pntic.mec.es). I have already tried to contact the local (Spain) FreeBSD group concerning this matter. However, I have not had any success (I sent an email which has not been answered and is not likely to be). Hoping to be helpful, trep0001 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 21:27:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F5414DDB; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:27:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-251.s60.as3.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.251]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01972; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:27:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906280427.AAA01972@smtp1.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:27:26 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Motoyuki Konno Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation Cc: freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, nclayton@lehman.com, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , Nik Clayton Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27-Jun-99 Motoyuki Konno wrote: > Hi, > > Nik Clayton wrote: >> * How many distinct languages are catered for in that directory? There's >> no way to tell. >> >> * It's incredibly inconsistent. Look at >> >> en_US.utf/ US English, probably > > I think "en" is better. Because English is used in many countries > (U.K., Austraria, New Zealand, etc.). Yeah, but US English is a bit different than British English.. mostly in the form of idioms. Although I doubt it, it is entirely possible, that we might end up with a en_UK.ISO-8559-1 (or whatever it is called). > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Motoyuki Konno mkonno@res.yamanashi-med.ac.jp (Univ) > motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp (Home) > motoyuki@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Project) > Yamanashi Medical University http://www.freebsd.org/~motoyuki/ (WWW) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jun 27 21:34:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D85C814C19; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:34:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-251.s60.as3.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.251]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id AAA29177; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906280427.AAA29177@smtp4.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199906251220.VAA22552@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:27:21 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Motoyuki Konno Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation Cc: jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, Jun Kuriyama , Nik Clayton , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 25-Jun-99 Motoyuki Konno wrote: > Hi, > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >> Not to jump in the middle of an argument, but I should note that Nik >> has presented a number of reasonable points in his message and simply >> dismissing them all with a single-line reply of this nature does not, >> I believe, do the poster credit. A more adequate rebuttal is called >> for. > > OK, I'll explain more. > > A. Why 'ja' is better than 'ja.*' > ---------------------------------- No offense, but your arguments apply to a specific case, i.e. "ja", and Nik is trying to setup a generic structure that will be easily extensible and consistent. That is why "en" is changing to "en_US.iso-8859-1" or something similar. We understand that it's just bit flipping to do JIS -> SJIS -> EUC, but please understand that Nik is proposing a system that is bigger than the doc/ja tree. It is the doc/ tree. Also, the end user will still have /usr/share/man/ja and /usr/share/doc/ja.. this is only for the CVS repository. Please try to see the big picture here instead of just looking at the "ja" stuff. Everyone else has to adjust to this change, too. > Nik wrote: >> That does not preclude a Japanese admin from wanting to install docs in the >> SJIS encoding. They might want to install these docs *instead of* the >> eucJP docs, or they might want to install these docs *as well as* the eucJP >> docs. > > Because most (almost all) of Japanese utility can handle EUC, SJIS > and JIS at the same time, your idea is not true. > Japanese admin *never* want to install docs in SJIS encoding as well > as the docs in EUC. It is only a waste of disk space!! That's why it is optional, and that's why you have links and intelligent programs that can convert on the fly, which we apparently already have in the ports, correct? But we need to integrate all of that into a clean, coherent, consistent system. This is not just Nik trying to making everyone's life miserable. > B. Why Japanese doc team do not want 'ja' -> 'ja_JP.EUC' > --------------------------------------------------------- > > One reason is that the cost of change is quite large. > 'ja_JP.EUC' -> 'ja' change was *only* one year ago. Japanese doc > team and ports team paid the cost. We agreed the change because > it is reasonable (as I explained above). It's only changing in the CVS repo, *NOT* in userland, so the only cost of change is "cvs update -dP". > I cannot understand why we (FreeBSD doc team) have to move the > doc location again. So that we never have to move it again. :) > Another reason is that the "encoding system" is not essential > in Japanese document (as I explained above). But it is in other places, and for a generic, extensible system you use the lowest common denominator instead of a collection of special hacks. > Motoyuki Konno mkonno@res.yamanashi-med.ac.jp (Univ) > motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp (Home) > motoyuki@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Project) > Yamanashi Medical University http://www.freebsd.org/~motoyuki/ (WWW) --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 2:25:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from asuka.snipe.rim.or.jp (tiger.yamanashi-med.ac.jp [202.35.241.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F38D914C11 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 02:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp) Received: from daemon.snipe.rim.or.jp (daemon.snipe.rim.or.jp [172.16.20.38]) by asuka.snipe.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id SAA70353; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:27:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from daemon.snipe.rim.or.jp (localhost.snipe.rim.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by daemon.snipe.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id SAA86902; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:27:48 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199906280927.SAA86902@daemon.snipe.rim.or.jp> To: trep0001 Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: translation into spanish X-Mailer: mh-e on Mule 2.3 / Emacs 19.34.1 References: <3776B934.8A652184@encina.pntic.mec.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:27:47 +0900 From: Motoyuki Konno Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, trep0001 wrote: > I am willing to help you in the translation of the FreeBSD > documentation from english into spanish. Wether you are interested or > not, please do let me know (send me an email to > trep0001@encina.pntic.mec.es). > > I have already tried to contact the local (Spain) FreeBSD group > concerning this matter. However, I have not had any success (I sent an > email which has not been answered and is not likely to be). > > Hoping to be helpful, > trep0001 There already exists 'the FreeBSD Spanish Documentation Project'. Please refer http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/translations.html#spanish for detail. Thanks. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Motoyuki Konno mkonno@res.yamanashi-med.ac.jp (Univ) motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp (Home) motoyuki@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Project) Yamanashi Medical University http://www.freebsd.org/~motoyuki/ (WWW) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 2:43:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from firewall1.lehman.com (firewall.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A68515434; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 02:42:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay3.messaging-svcs5.lehman.com by firewall1.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id FAA12544; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 05:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990628104129.V15628@lehman.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:41:29 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: John Baldwin , Motoyuki Konno Cc: freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , Nik Clayton Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> <199906280427.AAA01972@smtp1.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199906280427.AAA01972@smtp1.erols.com>; from John Baldwin on Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 12:27:26AM -0400 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 12:27:26AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > Nik Clayton wrote: > >> * How many distinct languages are catered for in that directory? There's > >> no way to tell. > >> > >> * It's incredibly inconsistent. Look at > >> > >> en_US.utf/ US English, probably > > > > I think "en" is better. Because English is used in many countries > > (U.K., Austraria, New Zealand, etc.). > > Yeah, but US English is a bit different than British English.. mostly in the > form of idioms. Although I doubt it, it is entirely possible, that we might > end up with a en_UK.ISO-8559-1 (or whatever it is called). Yep. The Makefile in there would s/color/colour/ before generating any of the files. . . N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 3:50:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from firewall2.lehman.com (firewall.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2618E14D4F; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 03:50:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay3.messaging-svcs5.lehman.com by firewall2.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA10742; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990628115003.C15628@lehman.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:50:03 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Motoyuki Konno , Nik Clayton Cc: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <57461.930305624@zippy.cdrom.com> <199906251220.VAA22552@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990625150942.K15628@lehman.com> <199906252311.QAA04505@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990626014203.B71532@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp>; from Motoyuki Konno on Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 09:40:10PM +0900 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 09:40:10PM +0900, Motoyuki Konno wrote: > Nik Clayton wrote: > > * How many distinct languages are catered for in that directory? There's > > no way to tell. > > > > * It's incredibly inconsistent. Look at > > > > en_US.utf/ US English, probably > > I think "en" is better. Because English is used in many countries > (U.K., Austraria, New Zealand, etc.). > > > > ja/ Japanese, but which encoding? > > > > ja.JIS/ JIS encoding, so the previous one is probably EUC > > 'ja.JIS' is not needed, I think. If both 'ja' and 'ja.JIS' exists, > FreeBSD users will be confused. OK. So Satoshi was (as far as I can see) holding up the X11R6 locale directory as an example of where things don't need to be explicitly spelled out, and now you're saying that the same directory structure is confusing. I think this is the best example yet of exactly why we should move to a more rationalised directory naming scheme -- confusion such as the above becomes impossible. N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 3:52:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from firewall2.lehman.com (firewall2.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97AE514D64; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 03:52:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay3.messaging-svcs5.lehman.com by firewall2.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA11587; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990628115159.D15628@lehman.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:51:59 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Motoyuki Konno Cc: Nik Clayton , Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <57461.930305624@zippy.cdrom.com> <199906251220.VAA22552@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990625150942.K15628@lehman.com> <199906252311.QAA04505@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990626014203.B71532@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> <199906271938.EAA10022@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199906271938.EAA10022@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp>; from Motoyuki Konno on Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 04:38:16AM +0900 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 04:38:16AM +0900, Motoyuki Konno wrote: > Nik> * It's incredibly inconsistent. Look at > Nik> > Nik> en_US.utf/ US English, probably > > motoyuki: > m> I think "en" is better. Because English is used in many countries > m> (U.K., Austraria, New Zealand, etc.). > > If we make the doc directory trees all over again, 'en_US.utf' may > be good. But, there already exists 'doc/en' directory. Directory > name change is a very hard work, as you know, so I think we should > continue to use 'doc/en'. No, for all the reasons that I've outlined in previous messages. > And, I don't like the name 'en_US.utf' because English is used in > many countries in addition to United States. :-) I know. If it makes you feel any different I'm English (British, whatever), and I still want to move to en_US.ISO-8859-1, because it accurately describes what that directory contains. N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 3:53:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from firewall2.lehman.com (firewall.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 056DB14D4F; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 03:53:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay3.messaging-svcs5.lehman.com by firewall2.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA11907; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990628115254.E15628@lehman.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:52:54 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: John Baldwin , Motoyuki Konno Cc: jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, Jun Kuriyama , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <199906251220.VAA22552@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> <199906280427.AAA29177@smtp4.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199906280427.AAA29177@smtp4.erols.com>; from John Baldwin on Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 12:27:21AM -0400 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 12:27:21AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > A. Why 'ja' is better than 'ja.*' > > ---------------------------------- > > No offense, but your arguments apply to a specific case, i.e. "ja", and Nik is > trying to setup a generic structure that will be easily extensible and > consistent. That is why "en" is changing to "en_US.iso-8859-1" or something > similar. We understand that it's just bit flipping to do JIS -> SJIS -> EUC, > but please understand that Nik is proposing a system that is bigger than the > doc/ja tree. It is the doc/ tree. Also, the end user will still have > /usr/share/man/ja and /usr/share/doc/ja.. this is only for the CVS repository. > Please try to see the big picture here instead of just looking at the "ja" > stuff. Everyone else has to adjust to this change, too. Thank God for that. Someone else gets it :-) Cheers John, N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 3:55:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from firewall2.lehman.com (firewall2.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB2714DCA; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 03:55:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay3.messaging-svcs5.lehman.com by firewall2.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA12690; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990628115456.F15628@lehman.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:54:56 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: John Polstra Cc: jdp@freebsd.org, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@freebsd.org, Jun Kuriyama , Motoyuki Konno Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <19990625120831.H15628@lehman.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from John Polstra on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 09:55:16AM -0700 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 09:55:16AM -0700, John Polstra wrote: > - Working in your local copy, you arrange the tree the way you want > it. The rules are: > > - You can't delete, rename, or modify any existing files or > directories. > > - Directories must be mode 775 > > - Files must be mode 444 That I can do. Does this mean that the old files will be "cvs remove"d? > - When you're happy with your local copy, you tar it up and give it > to me. > > - I check it over, fix up the tags (if any) and other-RCS related > things, and install it in the master repository. > > - I unfreeze the doc tree. > > How about that? Will do. That high-pitched whistling sound is my free time this evening disappearing. And as Tim says, it lets everyone else look at it as well before it is implemented. N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 3:58:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from firewall2.lehman.com (firewall.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC9E14F18; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 03:58:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay3.messaging-svcs5.lehman.com by firewall2.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA13699; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990628115743.G15628@lehman.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:57:43 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Kazuo Horikawa Cc: motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <19990625120831.H15628@lehman.com> <19990627165320N.k-horik@yk.rim.or.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990627165320N.k-horik@yk.rim.or.jp>; from Kazuo Horikawa on Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 04:53:20PM +0900 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 04:53:20PM +0900, Kazuo Horikawa wrote: > > So he asked me to come up with a way that minimises the number of > > repository copies that are necessary. Which is what I've done. Obviously, > > there's a trade off in terms of the information that can be preserved if > > you can't do a repository copy, and what I'm trying to do is strike the > > right balance between what we keep and what we lose. > > Under doc/ja/man, there are following tags: > tag=release_3_2_0 > tag=release_3_1_0 > tag=release_3_0_0 > tag=release_2_2_7 > tag=RELEASE_2_2_6 > tag=release_2_2_5 > > We can retrieve Japanese online manuals for the RELEASE which the tag > represents. It is quite useful to track translation error later. So, > we do not want to lose the tags. Hmm, that's interesting. How do you use these tags (I'm not being obtuse here, I'm genuinely interested). We stopped tagging the English documentation to co-incide with the releases a while ago, and I didn't think anyone else found it useful either. How does this help you do the translations? The other translation teams might find this a useful trick as well. Thanks, N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 4: 0: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E79EC14DCA; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 03:59:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA25827; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 05:59:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sji-ca44-84.ix.netcom.com(209.111.212.212) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma025819; Mon Jun 28 05:59:13 1999 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (8.9.3/8.6.9) id DAA52295; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 03:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 03:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906281058.DAA52295@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: silvia.hip.berkeley.edu: asami set sender to asami@cs.berkeley.edu using -f To: nclayton@lehman.com Cc: motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org In-reply-to: <19990628115003.C15628@lehman.com> (message from Nik Clayton on Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:50:03 +0100) Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) References: <57461.930305624@zippy.cdrom.com> <199906251220.VAA22552@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990625150942.K15628@lehman.com> <199906252311.QAA04505@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990626014203.B71532@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990628115003.C15628@lehman.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * From: Nik Clayton * On Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 09:40:10PM +0900, Motoyuki Konno wrote: * > 'ja.JIS' is not needed, I think. If both 'ja' and 'ja.JIS' exists, * > FreeBSD users will be confused. * OK. So Satoshi was (as far as I can see) holding up the X11R6 locale * directory as an example of where things don't need to be explicitly * spelled out, and now you're saying that the same directory structure is * confusing. I wasn't referring to the Japanese part of it, but whatever. :) * I think this is the best example yet of exactly why we should move to a * more rationalised directory naming scheme -- confusion such as the above * becomes impossible. That's not what Konno-san meant. The "confusion" was about which one to use, not what each directory means. There is no need to have more than one Japanese directory. If both "ja.eucJP" and "ja.JIS" exists, Japanese people will still be confused. :) Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 4: 4:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from firewall2.lehman.com (firewall2.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D995914DCA; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay3.messaging-svcs5.lehman.com by firewall2.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id HAA15985; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990628120326.H15628@lehman.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:03:26 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Jun Kuriyama Cc: doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <19990623231441.N42442@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <37724BD3.D1C377CC@sky.rim.or.jp> <19990625104500.F15628@lehman.com> <37764DE2.AE06DFBE@sky.rim.or.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <37764DE2.AE06DFBE@sky.rim.or.jp>; from Jun Kuriyama on Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 01:14:26AM +0900 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 01:14:26AM +0900, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > Nik Clayton wrote: > > The first is the record that has submitted changes to the > ... > > The second is tieing to a specific piece of translation. If > ... > > Note that it's not impossible. I am prepared to take a local copy of the > > CVS tree, generates diffs for *every single version* of the translated > > documentation, and then recommit it with the original commit message, > > including the "Submitted by" line. > > OK. But my main question is whether it is worth to spent much time of > you and jdp or not. Obviously, I think the answer to this question is "yes", and as I've said before I'm happy to do the work to make the changeover as smooth as possible. I don't expect the translation teams to have to go in and change the build system after I've finished fixing up the structure. As a point of interest, this work will include me fixing the webbuild script as necessary, and also any bits of "make release" that need taking care of. > At this point, I think you are right. We have dirty hack only to solve > this situation. > > But I think no sysadmins need two encoded documents at the same time. Chinese and/or Russian probably could. Japanese *might*. I'll stress at this point that the majority of them might *not* need to do this. But I don't want to explicitly design out potentially useful functionality for others when it's really pretty easy to make sure that functionality is designed in to the system. N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 4:11:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48CB14DCA; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA17226; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:11:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sji-ca44-84.ix.netcom.com(209.111.212.212) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma017220; Mon Jun 28 06:11:32 1999 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (8.9.3/8.6.9) id EAA52379; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906281111.EAA52379@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: silvia.hip.berkeley.edu: asami set sender to asami@cs.berkeley.edu using -f To: jobaldwi@vt.edu Cc: motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, nclayton@lehman.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199906280427.AAA29177@smtp4.erols.com> (message from John Baldwin on Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:27:21 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) References: <199906280427.AAA29177@smtp4.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * From: John Baldwin * No offense, but your arguments apply to a specific case, i.e. "ja", and Nik is * trying to setup a generic structure that will be easily extensible and * consistent. That is why "en" is changing to "en_US.iso-8859-1" or something * similar. We understand that it's just bit flipping to do JIS -> SJIS -> EUC, * but please understand that Nik is proposing a system that is bigger than the * doc/ja tree. It is the doc/ tree. Also, the end user will still have * /usr/share/man/ja and /usr/share/doc/ja.. this is only for the CVS repository. * Please try to see the big picture here instead of just looking at the "ja" * stuff. Everyone else has to adjust to this change, too. Please read the entire thread before replying to an old message. The largest (maybe only) problem the Japanese people have is his stated eventual goal of enforcing the <_territory><.codeset> full spec into the installation directories of all languages (as a default). We are discussing this now since the current proposed move is a preparation of that eventual goal. I have already suggested that we are willing to compromise if he will allow per-language *default* installation directories to be determined by the users of that language, not by someone who doesn't use the language. === Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:11:03 -0700 (PDT) To: nclayton@lehman.com CC: motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) : That said, I won't object if your eventual goal will allow a per-language *default* in directory names. For instance, if we can put "LANGSUBDIR ?= ja" in ja_JP.eucJP/Makefile to have all the Japanese documents install in the "ja" subdir by default (and have symlinks pointing to there from ja_JP.eucJP or whatever), that is fine for me. Each language/territory can choose their own default (maybe most of them will just want it to be the same as the repository name, although I have a hunch that Mandarin folks will prefer "zh" or "zh_CN" -- but don't quote me on this) that makes the most sense to them. *IF* some Japanese sysadmin really wants to install both eucJP and SJIS variants of docs on their system for whatever reason, they can override that variable and take their risk. But if you insist on installing Japanese docs by default by ja_JP.eucJP with the option by site overrides, we are strongly against it. As Konno-san said, it doesn't make sense from a Japanese user's standpoint, and it will make maintenance of other parts of the system (ports, web pages, etc.) a nightmare. : === His reply to this was to mention that the framework will allow that but he wasn't clear whether he will allow per-language defaults to be determined by the users of the languages. === Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:42:03 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami Cc: nclayton@lehman.com, motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation : Yes. I want to allow this flexibility. In my mind, a sysadmin is likely to want to install the docs in to a canonical location, and then symlink to this location from other, possibly friendlier, directory names. As an admin myself, I'd want the canonical location to be as precise as possible, and have the symlinks be less precise. Which is why I'd suggest the canonical location be 'ja_JP.eucJP' (or whatever) and the symlinks be 'ja'. Other admins (e.g., you) might want this reversed, and have the canonical directory be 'ja', and the symlinks be things like 'ja_JP.eucJP'. I have no problem with this, and the arguments about which approach should be the default (6 or 12 months down the line) are likely to more entertaining than "vi vs. Emacs" :-) : === The "vi vs. Emacs" reference worries me. We really do not want to engage in religious wars -- that's exactly what happens when people try to determine what's good for others. :) I haven't gotten a reply to this followup of mine. === Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:32:04 -0700 (PDT) To: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk CC: nclayton@lehman.com, motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) : Well, as long as you let the Japanese people decide what the default's going to be for Japanese stuff, I'm fine. :) : === Nik, if you agree with this, we can end this whole thing now. I believe that is the only point that the Japanese people won't be able to compromise. Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 4:22:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 646C014FC6 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA25913; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:21:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sji-ca44-84.ix.netcom.com(209.111.212.212) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma025909; Mon Jun 28 06:21:16 1999 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (8.9.3/8.6.9) id EAA52422; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906281121.EAA52422@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: silvia.hip.berkeley.edu: asami set sender to asami@cs.berkeley.edu using -f To: jdp@polstra.com Cc: k-horik@yk.rim.or.jp, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@freebsd.org, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, nclayton@lehman.com In-reply-to: (message from John Polstra on Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:48:11 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation From: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * From: John Polstra * When we do repository copies, we always remove the tags from the new * copies of the files. If we didn't do that, it would in effect * change what already happened in the past. Suppose we copied foo,v * to bar,v, and foo,v originally had the tags you listed above. We * would remove those tags from bar,v. Otherwise, if you checked out * the tree using "-r release_2_2_5" it would appear that file "bar" * existed at that time -- which it didn't. * * By removing the tags, we avoid changing the past. If you checkout * with "-r release_2_2_5" then you'll get file "foo" but not file "bar" * -- just the same as if there had been no repository copy at all. We understand that, but is it possible to delete the tags from the ones in the Attic instead? I know you don't want to change the past, but these aren't RELENG_* tags so it shouldn't matter too much in terms of correctness. The reason I ask is so that people can have *one* location where we can do a "cvs update -rrelease_X_Y_Z" to get the release versions of all the manpages. If the files are moved to a new location, they'll have to do it in doc/ja for X_Y_Z <= 3_2_0 and doc/ja_JP.eucJP for X_Y_Z > 3_2_0. Unless there is a CVS-y reason why this doesn't work, of course. (My expertise doesn't involve much in terms of tags. ;) Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 4:23:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from firewall2.lehman.com (firewall2.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A6FD14DCA; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:23:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay3.messaging-svcs5.lehman.com by firewall2.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id HAA27082; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990628122311.I15628@lehman.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:23:11 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami Cc: motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <57461.930305624@zippy.cdrom.com> <199906251220.VAA22552@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990625150942.K15628@lehman.com> <199906252311.QAA04505@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990626014203.B71532@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990628115003.C15628@lehman.com> <199906281058.DAA52295@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199906281058.DAA52295@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu>; from Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami on Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 03:58:56AM -0700 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 03:58:56AM -0700, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami wrote: > That's not what Konno-san meant. The "confusion" was about which one > to use, not what each directory means. There is no need to have more > than one Japanese directory. If both "ja.eucJP" and "ja.JIS" exists, > Japanese people will still be confused. :) Why? Fast forward to the future, 6 months from now. # cd /usr/doc # ls en_US.ISO-8859-1/ ja_JP.eucJP/ zh_TW.Big5/ ja_JP.SJIS/ zh_CN.EUC/ [... and others ...] Our SA wants to install the English documentation. What do they do? # cd en* # make install and off it goes, installing the docs into /usr/share/doc/en_US.ISO-8859-1, and making a symlink, /usr/share/doc/en/, that points to that directory. Now they want to install both versions of the Chinese docs; # cd .. # cd zh_CN* # make install and as above, the docs get installed in /usr/share/doc/zh_CN.EUC, and a compatability symlink is made from /usr/share/doc/zh. Then they do # cd .. # cd zh_TW* # make install The docs now get installed in /usr/share/doc/zh_TW.Big5. However, because the /usr/share/doc/zh symlink already exists, it is not changed to point at the Big5 encoded docs. If the SA had installed these docs in a different order then the Big5 encoding would become the default, simply because the symlink for that one would have been made first. Alternatively, they could do the steps above, but run something like # make DEFAULT_ENCODING=yes install and the existing /usr/share/doc/zh would be removed (regardless of whether it was a symlink or a real directory), the docs would still be installed in to /usr/share/doc/zh_TW.Big5, and the symlink would now point there instead. Japanese would function in exactly the same way. The only difference is that whereas zh_TW.Big5 and zh_CN.EUC are different languages, and both would exist in full in the tree, the ja_JP.SJIS files would be generated automatically from the EUC encoded docs, using rules in the Makefile. I accept that the Japanese team have decided that EUC is to be their default encoding, and I have no problem with that. However, I don't want to have to *force* this encoding on every Japanese FreeBSD user. Perhaps some of them already have a mass of documentation in SJIS format, and they would prefer to stick with SJIS format if at all possible -- or they have a commercial application that can only handle SJIS format. Whatever. I want to make it easy for them to choose. This is a side effect of me wanting to make it easy for other users to choose. N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 4:38:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from firewall2.lehman.com (firewall.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F0B14FC6; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:38:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay3.messaging-svcs5.lehman.com by firewall2.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id HAA06969; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:38:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990628123739.J15628@lehman.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:37:39 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , jobaldwi@vt.edu Cc: motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <199906280427.AAA29177@smtp4.erols.com> <199906281111.EAA52379@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199906281111.EAA52379@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu>; from Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami on Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 04:11:21AM -0700 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 04:11:21AM -0700, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami wrote: > His reply to this was to mention that the framework will allow that > but he wasn't clear whether he will allow per-language defaults to > be determined by the users of the languages. There are two different sorts of defaults and users here. The defaults that the users of a FreeBSD system will see, and the defaults that the administrators of that system will see. From a user's point of view, little will change. In fact, the biggest change is probably going to be to English language users, who up until now have had their documentation install in to /usr/share/doc, with the other languages being forced to have subsidiary directories in here. This will change, and English will become just another language in the list at /usr/share/doc/. To a Japanese user of a system, /usr/share/doc/ja/ will continue to exist as it always has. To a Japanese admin, things will change very slightly. In 6 months, or 12 months, or whatever, I want *all* the languages (not just Japanese) to default to an "install" target that 1. Installs in to ${INSTALL_DIR} 2. Makes a compatability symlink from ${SHORT_PATH} to point to ${INSTALL_DIR} [ I've just picked those variable names off the top of my head, they almost certainly won't be that in the final Makefile ] I would like the defaults for those variables to be Lang / Enc. ${INSTALL_DIR} ${SHORT_PATH} US English en_US.ISO-8859-1 en Japanese (EUC) ja_JP.eucJP ja Japanese (SJIS) ja_JP.SJIS ja Chinese (EUC) zh_CN.EUC zh Chinese (Big5) zh_TW.Big5 zh [...] with the final directory that ${SHORT_PATH} points to determined by the order in which the docs are installed -- the first encoding installed becomes the default, unless the admin either breaks and remakes the link by hand, or runs "make install" with a special variable set. I can see that the Japanese team might want to reverse this for some time, and have ${INSTALL_DIR} = ja and ${SHORT_PATH} = ja_JP.{EUC,SJIS} as necessary, and they will be able to set this if they want. Note, however, that the installation directory semantics for the Japanese documentation will then be subtly different from the semantics for every other language variant that can be installed. I think this is a bad thing, and that it should be phased out over time (say, over the course of the transition from one major release of FreeBSD to the next -- so that v4.0 would ship with the switched order, as Satoshi is saying, and that v5.0 would ship with it back so that it is the same as for every other language). My personal feeling is that, from the start, the Japanese docs should use the new directory name, and retain the short symlink, and that doing the switchover in two jumps is more confusing than doing it in one. But I don't care about this small point sufficiently to keep discussing it for the next three weeks. Note: This says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about where ports will install their docs. Historically that has been /usr/local/share/doc/ja, and I'm not about to touch that. Hopefully the scheme I'm outlining will prove sufficiently flexible that the ports maintainers will see it in their interest to move to the same scheme under /usr/local/share/doc/ja, but that's entirely up to them. N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 5: 3:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B054314C13; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 05:03:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA12793; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:02:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sji-ca44-84.ix.netcom.com(209.111.212.212) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma012686; Mon Jun 28 07:01:43 1999 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (8.9.3/8.6.9) id FAA52550; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 05:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 05:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906281201.FAA52550@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: silvia.hip.berkeley.edu: asami set sender to asami@cs.berkeley.edu using -f To: nclayton@lehman.com Cc: jobaldwi@vt.edu, motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org In-reply-to: <19990628123739.J15628@lehman.com> (message from Nik Clayton on Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:37:39 +0100) Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) References: <199906280427.AAA29177@smtp4.erols.com> <199906281111.EAA52379@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990628123739.J15628@lehman.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * From: Nik Clayton * Chinese (EUC) zh_CN.EUC zh I believe the correct form of this is zh_CN.eucCN, but you should ask Mandarin experts to be sure. * Note, however, that the installation directory semantics for the Japanese * documentation will then be subtly different from the semantics for every * other language variant that can be installed. I think this is a bad thing, * and that it should be phased out over time (say, over the course of the * transition from one major release of FreeBSD to the next -- so that * v4.0 would ship with the switched order, as Satoshi is saying, and that * v5.0 would ship with it back so that it is the same as for every other * language). And we have explained over and over why it makes little sense for Japanese admins to do it that way. It is not the "switched" order -- it's the "natural" order for Japanese systems. It's not the matter of whether we have time between the switch over or not. It does not make sense for us to switch. I don't think we are going to reach an agreement on this. The whole discussion is getting pointless. Can we just agree to disagree? All we want is a little autonomy to select our own defaults. As long as proper symlinks are established to maintain semantic consistency, I don't see why it is a "bad thing" to be different from others. Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 5: 6:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C21F14C13; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 05:06:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA01266; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:05:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sji-ca44-84.ix.netcom.com(209.111.212.212) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001169; Mon Jun 28 07:04:42 1999 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (8.9.3/8.6.9) id FAA52558; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 05:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 05:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906281204.FAA52558@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: silvia.hip.berkeley.edu: asami set sender to asami@cs.berkeley.edu using -f To: nclayton@lehman.com Cc: motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org In-reply-to: <19990628122311.I15628@lehman.com> (message from Nik Clayton on Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:23:11 +0100) Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) References: <57461.930305624@zippy.cdrom.com> <199906251220.VAA22552@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990625150942.K15628@lehman.com> <199906252311.QAA04505@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990626014203.B71532@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990628115003.C15628@lehman.com> <199906281058.DAA52295@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990628122311.I15628@lehman.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * From: Nik Clayton * I accept that the Japanese team have decided that EUC is to be their * default encoding, and I have no problem with that. However, I don't want * to have to *force* this encoding on every Japanese FreeBSD user. Perhaps * some of them already have a mass of documentation in SJIS format, and * they would prefer to stick with SJIS format if at all possible -- or they * have a commercial application that can only handle SJIS format. When did we ever say we are going to force eucJP encoding to every Japanese FreeBSD user?!? We have no problem with having a framework to let people choose. We're just saying that we would like to choose a default that makes sense to most Japanese systems and have people with special requirements (such as the ones you mentioned above) change it by themselves. Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 5:57:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from imap.ncsa.es (imap.ncsa.es [194.179.50.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A992714FD5 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 05:57:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesusr@ncsa.es) Received: from ender.ncsa.es (ender.ncsa.es [194.179.50.15]) by imap.ncsa.es (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA27729; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:57:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199906280927.SAA86902@daemon.snipe.rim.or.jp> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:54:01 +0200 (CEST) Reply-To: jesusr@ncsa.es Organization: Nexus Comunicaciones, S.A. From: Jesus Rodriguez To: trep0001 Subject: Re: translation into spanish Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 28-Jun-99 Motoyuki Konno wrote: > Hi, > > trep0001 wrote: >> I am willing to help you in the translation of the FreeBSD >> documentation from english into spanish. Wether you are interested or >> not, please do let me know (send me an email to >> trep0001@encina.pntic.mec.es). >> >> I have already tried to contact the local (Spain) FreeBSD group >> concerning this matter. However, I have not had any success (I sent an >> email which has not been answered and is not likely to be). Sorry for delay on answer, but i'm very busy these days. I've answered your private mail. Thanks JesusR. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 11: 0:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355331546C for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:00:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA30791 for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906281800.LAA30791@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: FreeBSD doc list Subject: Current unassigned doc problem reports Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Current FreeBSD problem reports The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. Bugs can be in one of several states: o - open A problem report has been submitted, no sanity checking performed. a - analyzed The report has been examined by a team member and evaluated. f - feedback The problem has been solved, and the originator has been given a patch or a fix has been committed. The PR remains in this state pending a response from the originator. s - suspended The problem is not being worked on. This is a prime candidate for somebody who is looking for a project to do. If the problem cannot be solved at all, it will be closed, rather than suspended. c - closed A problem report is closed when any changes have been integrated, documented, and tested. Critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [1999/06/24] docs/12377 doc differences of a NULL login class need am 1 problem total. Serious problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [1999/06/12] docs/12181 doc [Patch] doc/en/handbook/kernelconfig/chap o [1999/06/23] docs/12372 doc man page HISTORY for strdup is wrong 2 problems total. Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [1998/04/14] docs/6295 doc Reference to nonexistent file in Device D o [1998/04/15] docs/6307 doc sgmlfmt not `make -jN' ready a [1998/07/31] docs/7456 doc dialog(3) man page outdated a [1998/08/31] docs/7791 doc ipf(1) and ipfstat(1) should have been ip o [1998/09/13] docs/7914 doc no elf(5) manpage o [1998/10/25] docs/8445 doc Update of "Installing Mathematica on Free o [1999/02/11] docs/10038 doc Added a site and bug fix (part two) o [1999/02/14] docs/10084 doc new FreeBSD user group in Yogyakarta City o [1999/02/14] docs/10085 doc NIS Setup Tutorial o [1999/02/14] docs/10098 doc Lack of overall guide for NIS setup o [1999/02/21] docs/10180 doc Another mirror site not listed... o [1999/02/21] docs/10182 doc http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?p o [1999/02/25] docs/10240 doc We need a script which check if our web m o [1999/03/01] docs/10331 doc pccardd(8) claims FreeBSD does not suppor o [1999/03/07] docs/10472 doc Mailing list for discussion of Xircom dri o [1999/03/08] docs/10488 doc Error in entry for 02/27 in calendar.hist o [1999/03/09] docs/10512 doc ENOBUFS returnable from writev(2) but not o [1999/03/18] docs/10660 doc User Group not listed o [1999/03/18] docs/10664 doc Notes on 2.2.8 -> 3.1 migration o [1999/03/23] docs/10762 doc geocrawler.com mailing list archives o [1999/03/29] docs/10850 doc submitting a documentation change for sed o [1999/04/07] docs/10997 doc Problem with query-pr-summary.cgi o [1999/04/11] docs/11087 doc Portland FreeBSD users group o [1999/04/11] docs/11089 doc freebsd user group, sydney o [1999/04/11] docs/11090 doc User's group in Melbourne Australia o [1999/04/21] docs/11258 doc suggestion to refine npx.4 o [1999/05/11] docs/11643 doc handbook should state alternatives o [1999/06/01] docs/11978 doc timed(8) manpage does not define '-F' swi o [1999/06/04] docs/12021 doc support.sgml Sydney UG update o [1999/06/07] docs/12075 doc [PATCH] Ports Changes Page Does not List o [1999/06/10] docs/12128 doc Cosmetics changes in eresoureses.sgml o [1999/06/11] docs/12132 doc Invalid URL at http://www.freebsd.org/int o [1999/06/11] docs/12148 doc On a sample in the printing section of Th o [1999/06/15] docs/12220 doc No manual page on system command "getkern o [1999/06/18] docs/12284 doc [PATCH] Handbook doesn't mention default o [1999/06/19] docs/12302 doc Clarification of the static_routes variab o [1999/06/22] docs/12343 doc make.conf error in documentation (COM2) o [1999/06/22] docs/12344 doc ntpdate flags, usage statement, man page o [1999/06/23] docs/12359 doc mailto tag for listname@FreeBSD.ORG o [1999/06/23] docs/12360 doc telnet(1) man-page doesn't describe skey 40 problems total. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 11:17: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freed.dyn.ez-ip.net (derby.JSP.UMontreal.CA [132.204.45.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED7101547F for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:16:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from spidey@freed.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: (from spidey@localhost) by freed.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00584; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:15:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from spidey) From: Spidey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14199.48088.762201.587615@freed.dyn.ez-ip.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:15:52 -0400 (EDT) To: Nik Clayton Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems making the handbook in stable References: <199906152359.AAA10668@lonmailhost.lehman.com> <19990616104716.U15628@lehman.com> <14183.47288.83543.419499@freed.dyn.ez-ip.net> <19990616191359.B14519@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <14184.26980.72039.621126@freed.dyn.ez-ip.net> <19990617195200.B26011@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <14185.30099.185492.37652@freed.dyn.ez-ip.net> <19990620204446.A85343@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 21.1 "20 Minutes to Nikko" XEmacs Lucid (patch 2) Reply-To: Spidey Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry if the reply is a little late... --- Big Brother told Nik Clayton to write, at 20:44 of June 20: > On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 06:24:19PM -0400, Spidey wrote: > > > Which version of the dsssl stylesheets are you using? I've got > > > v1.40 installed here, which generates ~ 120 .html files from the > > > Handbook. > > > > Hum.. How do I know??? > > Look at the information for the dsssl-docbook-modular port that will have > been installed. The simplest way is probably > > ls /var/db/pkg/dsssl* > > and look at the version number in the directory. dsssl-docbook-modular-1.40 Here too, it's seems... [...] > > > As expected. "FORMATS=html" is the "everything in one big file" setting, > > > "FORMATS=html-split" is with things split into multiple files. > > > > Yes, but: > > > > root@freed [06:23pm] doc# make DOC_LANG=en FORMATS=html-split > > ===> FAQ > > sgmlfmt -f html-split -links /usr/doc/FAQ/FAQ.sgml > > "html-split" is an unknown output format. > > Usage: > > sgmlfmt [-d ] -f [-i ...] [-links] > > [-e encoding] [-hdr file] [-ftr file] file > > where is one of: linuxdoc (default), docbook. > > and is one of: ascii, html, koi8-r, latin1, ps, roff > > *** Error code 1 > > This is 'cos the FAQ isn't in DocBook. When it is, it won't be a problem. OK.. Is it part of the project? thanks ants -- Stop the bombings. Stop the murders. Anti-war. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 13: 0:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C1F15416 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:00:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id NAA44754; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from teru.dyndns.org (dnai-207-181-237-225.dialup.dnai.com [207.181.237.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8842B14FCB for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:57:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ace@teru.dyndns.org) Received: (from ace@localhost) by teru.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id MAA01280; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:55:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ace) Message-Id: <199906281955.MAA01280@teru.dyndns.org> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:55:44 -0700 (PDT) From: adam.kranzel@teru.dyndns.org (shade@dnai.com) Reply-To: shade@dnai.com To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/12435: allied telesys is now allied telesyn Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 12435 >Category: docs >Synopsis: allied telesys is now allied telesyn >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Mon Jun 28 13:00:01 PDT 1999 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Adam Kranzel >Release: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 >Organization: Blacktabby Designs >Environment: n/a >Description: Allied Telesys has renamed itself to Allied Telesyn. Docs should be updated to reflect this (the supported hardware list being the major thing i can think of) >How-To-Repeat: n/a >Fix: update mentions of Allied Telesys hardware to say Allied Telesyn, or at least note that the company has changed its name. >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 13:32:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2705C14FC4 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:32:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA04025; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:02:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:02:18 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Starting new translation, hints ? Message-ID: <19990628200217.A696@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199906271822.PAA04076@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906271822.PAA04076@roma.coe.ufrj.br>; from Joao Carlos Mendes Luis on Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 03:22:56PM -0300 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 03:22:56PM -0300, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > A group in Brazil is working toward a portuguese (brazilian) version > of FreeBSD documents. We are now in the process of FAQ text revision, > as it could be seen at http://www.br.freebsd.org/faq/FAQ.html, for > those who understand portuguese. The next step will be the handbook. > > I'd like to know if there are any known hints on keeping this > translation up to date, following CVS closely, and how to integrate > this to the main FreeBSD sources. These would direct the efforts from > now on. Here's a preliminary FAQ for translators. Let me know if it answers your questions. N FreeBSD Documentation Project Translator's FAQ Preface This is the FAQ for people translating the FreeBSD documentation (FAQ, Handbook, tutorials, man pages, and others) to different languages. It is *very* heavily based on the translation FAQ from the FreeBSD German Documentation Project, originally written by Frank Grnder and translated back to English by Bernd Warken . In the near future this will be converted to DocBook so that other versions (HTML, Postscript, plain text) can be produced with relative ease. The FAQ maintainer is Nik Clayton ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why a FAQ? More and more people are approaching the freebsd-doc mailing list and volunteering to translate FreeBSD documentation to other languages. This FAQ aims to answer their questions so they can start translating documentation as quickly as possible. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What does "i18n" and "l10n" mean? "i18n" means "internationalisation" and "l10n" means "localisation". They are just a convenient shorthand. "i18n" can be read as "i" followed by 18 letters, followed by "n". Similarly, "l10n" is "l" followed by 10 letters, followed by "n". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is there a mailing list for translators? Yes, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk. Subscribe by sending a message to freebsd-translate-request@ngo.org.uk with the word "subscribe" in the body of the message. You will receive a reply asking you to confirm your subscription (in exactly the same manner as the the FreeBSD lists at freebsd.org). The primary language of the mailing list is English. However, posts in other languages will be accepted. The mailing list is not moderated, but you need to be a member of the list before you can post to it. The mailing list is archived, but they are not currently searchable. Sending the message "help" to majordomo@ngo.org.uk will send back instructions on how to access the archive. It is expected that the mailing list will transfer to freebsd.org and therefore become 'official' in the near future. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Are more translators needed? Yes. The more people work on translation the faster it gets done, and the faster changes to the English documentation are mirrored in the translated documents. You do not have to be a professional translator to be able to help. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What languages do I need to know? Ideally, you will need a good knowledge of written English, and obviously you will need to be fluent in the language you are translating to. English is not strictly necessary. For example, you could do a Hungarian translation of the FAQ from the Spanish translation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What software do I need to know? It is strongly recommended that you maintain a local copy of the FreeBSD CVS repository (at least the documentation part) either using CTM or CVSup. The "Staying current with FreeBSD" chapter in the Handbook explains how to use these applications. You should be comfortable using CVS. This will allow you to see what has changed between different versions of the files that make up the documentation. [XXX To Do -- write a tutorial that shows how to use CVSup to get just the documentation, check it out, and see what's changed between two arbitrary revisions] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ How do I find out who else might be translating to the same language? The Documentation Project translations page at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/translations.html lists the translation efforts that are currently known about. If someone else is already working on translating documentation to your language, please don't duplicate their efforts. Instead, contact them to see how you can help. If no one is listed on that page as translating for your language then send a message to freebsd-doc@freebsd.org in case someone else is thinking of doing a translation, but hasn't announced it yet. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ No one else is translating to my language. What do I do? Congratulations, you have just started the "FreeBSD Translation Project". Welcome aboard. First, decide whether or not you've got the time to spare. Since you are the only person working on your language at the moment it is going to be your responsibility to publicise your work and coordinate any volunteers that might want to help you. Write an e-mail to the Documentation Project mailing list, announcing that you are going to translate the documentation, so the Documentation Project translations page can be maintained. You should subscribe to the freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk mailing list (as described earlier). If there is already someone in your country providing FreeBSD mirroring services you should contact them and ask if they can provide some webspace for your project, and possibly an e-mail address or mailing list services. Then pick a document and start translating. It is best to start with something fairly small -- either the FAQ, or one of the tutorials. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I've translated some documentation, where do I send it? That depends. If you are already working with a translation team (such as the Japanese team, or the German team) then they will have their own procedures for handling submitted documentation, and these will be outlined on their web pages. If you are the only person working on a particular language (or you are responsible for a translation project and want to submit your changes back to the FreeBSD project) then you should send your translation to the FreeBSD project (see the next question). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'm the only person working on translating to this language, how do I submit my translation, or, we're a translation team, and want to submit documentation that our members have translated for us? First, make sure your translation is organised properly. This means that it should drop in to the existing documentation tree and build straight away. Currently, the FreeBSD documentation is stored in a top level directory called "doc". Directories below this are named according to the language code they are written in, as defined in ISO639 (/usr/share/misc/iso639 on a version of FreeBSD newer than 20th January 1999). If your language can be encoded in different ways (for example, Chinese) then there should be directories below this, one for each encoding format you have provided. Finally, you should have directories for each document. For example, a hypothetical Swedish translation might look like doc/ sv/ Makefile FAQ/ Makefile *.sgml "sv" is the ISO639 code for "Swedish". Note the two Makefiles, which will be used to build the documentation. There is no separate language code for Swedish, so there is no intermittent directory between the "sv" and "FAQ" directories. Note: You will notice that the English FAQ and Handbook are currently in the top level directory (i.e., doc/FAQ and doc/Handbook). This is being changed, and they will move to doc/en/FAQ and doc/en/Handbook respectively. Use tar(1) and gzip(1) to compress up your documentation, and send it to the project. % cd doc % tar cf swedish-docs.tar sv % gzip -9 swedish-docs.tar Upload swedish-docs.tar.gz to ftp.freebsd.org/incoming/. Then use send-pr(1) to submit a report indicating that you have submitted the documentation. It would be very helpful if you could get other people to look over your translation and double check it first, since it is unlikely that the person committing it will be fluent in the language. Someone (probably the Documentation Project Manager, currently Nik Clayton) will then take your translation and confirm that it builds. In particular, the following things will be looked at: * Do all your files use RCS strings (such as "ID"). * Does "make all" in the "sv" directory work correctly. * Does "make install" work correctly. If there are any problems then whoever is looking at the submission will get back to you to try and work them out. If there are no problems then your translation will be committed as soon as possible. Note from Nik: I'm extraordinarily lazy. So, if your submission works first time then expect to be offered commit privileges to the FreeBSD tree very quickly. I much prefer it if you can commit your own documentation once it is obvious that you know what you are doing :-). This gives me more free time, and means that your changes are visible to everyone else much faster. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Can I include language or country specific text in my translation? I would prefer that you didn't. For example, suppose that you are translating the Handbook to Korean, and want to include a section about retailers in Korea in your Handbook. There's no real reason why that information should not be in the English (or German, or Spanish, or Japanese...) versions as well. It is feasible that an English speaker in Korea might try and pick up a copy of FreeBSD whilst over there. It also helps increase FreeBSD's perceived presence around the globe, which is not a bad thing. If you have country specific information, please submit it as a change to the English Handbook (using send-pr(1)) and then translate the change back to your language in the translated Handbook. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ How should language specific characters be included? Non-ASCII characters in the documentation should be included using SGML entities. Briefly, these look like an ampersand ("&"), the name of the entity, and a semi-colon (";"). The entity names are defined in ISO8879, which is in the ports tree as textproc/iso8879. A few examples include é Small "e" with an acute accent É Large "E" with an acute accent ü Small "u" with an umlaut After you have installed the iso8879 port, the files in /usr/local/share/sgml/iso8879 contain the complete list. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Addressing the reader In the English documents, the reader is addressed as "you", there is no formal/informal distinction as there is in some languages. If you are translating to a language which does distinguish, use whichever form is typically used in other technical documentation in your language. If in doubt, use a mildly polite form. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do I need to include any additional information in my translations? Yes. The header of the English version of each document will look something like this; The exact boilerplate may change, but it will always include an Id line and the phrase "The FreeBSD Documentation Project. Your translated documents should include their own Id line, and change the "FreeBSD Documentation Project" line to In addition, you should add a third line which indicates which revision of the English text this is based on. So, the Spanish version of this file might start -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 13:34:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4403115061; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA10584; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:53:56 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:53:54 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Wolfram Schneider Cc: John Polstra , Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, Nik Clayton Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation Message-ID: <19990628205354.A5662@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199906240812.BAA57382@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990626205205.55151@panke.de.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990626205205.55151@panke.de.freebsd.org>; from Wolfram Schneider on Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 08:52:05PM +0200 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 08:52:05PM +0200, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > I'm busy too for the next months. I don't have the time to fix the web > pages after a repository copy. If someone will break the web pages he > has to fix the pages himself or I will freeze the web server. I'm deliberately blocking out the time to see this through myself. As an earlier message from me to you said, I'll change the webbuild script so that instead of checking out a copy of the docs from the repository, it copies over a pre-change copy of the docs from a directory that I'll set up somewhere on hub. So the web build will keep changing, and you will be able to make changes to the web site as normal. It's just that for the duration of the change the doc/ tree will be frozen while I fix up Makefiles. And to answer the original point -- the aim with the doc/ repository is to have it as non-fragile as possible. In order to build documents in any of the languages you must have checked out the share/ directory as well. Yes, this a requirement, but it's no more onerous then ensuring that if you want to build the world you have src/share checked out as well. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 13:37:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2601F15023; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA14976; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:28:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:28:27 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: John Polstra Cc: Nik Clayton , jdp@freebsd.org, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@freebsd.org, Jun Kuriyama , Motoyuki Konno Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation Message-ID: <19990628212827.C5662@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990625120831.H15628@lehman.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from John Polstra on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 09:55:16AM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii John, On Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 09:55:16AM -0700, John Polstra wrote: > - You tar it up and extract a copy onto your own machine or into > your home directory on freefall. > > - Working in your local copy, you arrange the tree the way you want > it. The rules are: > > - You can't delete, rename, or modify any existing files or > directories. > > - Directories must be mode 775 > > - Files must be mode 444 > > - When you're happy with your local copy, you tar it up and give it > to me. I've just done this for you test out. The generated .tar.gz file is huge (roughly 6 MB in size). Mine is but a puny modem, and I'd spend ages uploading it. So, here are my notes on what I did, accompanied by a small shell script that recreates the actions I did. To use it, make sure you have the doc/ repository in /home/ncvs/doc, and plenty of spare room in /var/tmp/. A /var/tmp/FDP directory will be created, and all the work is carried out in there. 6MB to 4KB. What an incredible compression ratio :-) Obviously, don't run this on the live tree just yet (!). But if you could test it out and let me know if it's what you want. That goes to anyone else who wants a feel for how doc/ will look when this is done. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=NOTES The Revised doc/ Repository How to repeat what I did ------------------------ This is how I did this. CVS experts should run over the changed repository to confirm that I haven't made any stupid errors. This is what I did, with commentary 1. Take a copy of the doc/ repository, and work on the copy % cd /var/tmp % mkdir FDP % cd FDP % cp -rp /home/ncvs/doc . % cd doc 2. Fix the English hierarchy 2.1 Use the new scheme for en/ % cp -rp en en_US.ISO_8859-1 2.2 Make the books/ directory, and move the books under that directory. Note that we can move files here, because we're now in a directory that CVS didn't originally know about. % cd en_US.ISO_8859-1 % mkdir books % mv handbook books % cd books/handbook % mv handbook.sgml,v book.sgml,v % cd ../.. % mv tutorials/docproj-primer books/fdp-primer 2.3 Make the articles/ directory, and move the articles under there, renaming the directories and files as we go. % mkdir articles % mv tutorials/devel articles/programming-tools % mv articles/programming-tools/devel.docb,v \ articles/programming-tools/article.sgml,v % mv tutorials/diskformat articles/formatting-media % mv articles/formatting-media/diskformat.docb,v \ articles/formatting-media/article.sgml,v % mv tutorials/fonts articles/fonts % mv articles/fonts/fonts.docb,v \ articles/fonts/article.sgml,v % mv tutorials/mh articles/mh % mv articles/mh/mh.docb,v articles/mh/article.sgml,v % mv tutorials/multios articles/multi-os % mv articles/multi-os/multios.docb,v \ articles/multi-os/article.sgml,v % mv tutorials/newuser articles/new-users % mv articles/new-users/newuser.docb,v \ articles/new-users/article.sgml,v 2.4 Leave the FAQ alone. When it is converted to DocBook (my next task after this) it will be placed in the books/ directory. But we can do this without needing to do repository copies. 3. Fix the Spanish hierarchy 3.1 Use the new scheme for es/ % cd .. % cp -rp es es_ES.ISO_8859-1 That's it. The FAQ stays where it is, for the same reason as the English version. 4. Fix the Japanese hierarchy 4.1 Use the new scheme for ja % cp -rp ja ja_JP.eucJP 4.2 Make the books/ directory, and move the handbook under that directory. % cd ja_JP.eucJP % mkdir books % mv handbook books % cd books/handbook % mv handbook.sgml,v book.sgml,v Leave the FAQ where it is, for the previously stated reasons. 5. Fix the Russian hierarchy 5.1 Use the new scheme for ru/ % cd ../../.. % cp -rp ru ru_SU.KOI8-R Again, the FAQ stays where it is relative to that hierarchy. 6. Fix the Chinese hierarchy 6.1 Use the new scheme for zh % cp -rp zh zh_TW.Big5 Things that must be done before this is complete 1. "cvs remove" the following; doc/en/ - *after* converting tutorials/{ddwg,ppp} to DocBook doc/ja/ doc/ru doc/es doc/zh 2. Fix up the Makefiles to use the new structure 3. Fix up the markup of most of the things in the articles/ directory. They are marked up as books, but are not nearly long enough to be classed as books. As near as I can tell they are marked up this way because a DocBook was the easiest markup to copy from other sources -- I've done the same thing myself. They should be marked up as books. --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: application/x-sh Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="FDP.sh" #!/bin/sh # Duplicate the FDP directory re-org NCVS=/home/ncvs TMP=/var/tmp mkdir ${TMP}/FDP cd ${TMP}/FDP cp -rp ${NCVS}/doc . cd doc cp -rp en en_US.ISO_8859-1 cd en_US.ISO_8859-1 mkdir books mv handbook books cd books/handbook mv handbook.sgml,v book.sgml,v cd ../.. mv tutorials/docproj-primer books/fdp-primer mkdir articles mv tutorials/devel articles/programming-tools mv articles/programming-tools/devel.docb,v \ articles/programming-tools/article.sgml,v mv tutorials/diskformat articles/formatting-media mv articles/formatting-media/diskformat.docb,v \ articles/formatting-media/article.sgml,v mv tutorials/fonts articles/fonts mv articles/fonts/fonts.docb,v articles/fonts/article.sgml,v mv tutorials/mh articles/mh mv articles/mh/mh.docb,v articles/mh/article.sgml,v mv tutorials/multios articles/multi-os mv articles/multi-os/multios.docb,v articles/multi-os/article.sgml,v mv tutorials/newuser articles/new-users mv articles/new-users/newuser.docb,v articles/new-users/article.sgml,v cd .. cp -rp es es_ES.ISO_8859-1 cp -rp ja ja_JP.eucJP cd ja_JP.eucJP mkdir books mv handbook books cd books/handbook mv handbook.sgml,v book.sgml,v cd ../../.. cp -rp ru ru_SU.KOI8-R cp -rp zh zh_TW.Big5 --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 13:38:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943FF150C9; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:38:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA10808; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:55:38 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:55:37 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami Cc: nclayton@lehman.com, motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation Message-ID: <19990628205537.B5662@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <57461.930305624@zippy.cdrom.com> <199906251220.VAA22552@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990625150942.K15628@lehman.com> <199906252311.QAA04505@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990626014203.B71532@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> <19990628115003.C15628@lehman.com> <199906281058.DAA52295@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> <19990628122311.I15628@lehman.com> <199906281204.FAA52558@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906281204.FAA52558@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu>; from Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami on Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 05:04:36AM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 05:04:36AM -0700, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami wrote: > * From: Nik Clayton > > * I accept that the Japanese team have decided that EUC is to be their > * default encoding, and I have no problem with that. However, I don't want > * to have to *force* this encoding on every Japanese FreeBSD user. Perhaps > * some of them already have a mass of documentation in SJIS format, and > * they would prefer to stick with SJIS format if at all possible -- or they > * have a commercial application that can only handle SJIS format. > > When did we ever say we are going to force eucJP encoding to every > Japanese FreeBSD user?!? Well, currently the docs are in eucJP, right? That's what the user gets when they do "make install" in doc/ja. There's no framework to let them pick a different encoding. Fortunately, putting in that sort of framework becomes trivial with this scheme, as it's just another triple. > We have no problem with having a framework to let people choose. > We're just saying that we would like to choose a default that makes > sense to most Japanese systems and have people with special > requirements (such as the ones you mentioned above) change it by > themselves. OK. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 15:32:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from ns11.rim.or.jp (ns11.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3227914EAC; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:32:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp) Received: from rayearth.rim.or.jp (rayearth.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.242]) by ns11.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-ns11/RIMNET-2) with ESMTP id HAA27611; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:32:10 +0900 (JST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by rayearth.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-uucp1/RIMNET) with UUCP id HAA15773; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:32:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp (sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp [192.168.11.4]) by mserver.snipe.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id HAA19572; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:26:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp (localhost.snipe.rim.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id HAA01567; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:26:06 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199906282226.HAA01567@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> To: John Baldwin Cc: Motoyuki Konno , freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, nclayton@lehman.com, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , Nik Clayton Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation X-Mailer: mh-e on Mule 2.3 / Emacs 19.34.1 References: <199906280427.AAA01972@smtp1.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:26:06 +0900 From: Motoyuki Konno Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, John Baldwin wrote: > >> * It's incredibly inconsistent. Look at > >> > >> en_US.utf/ US English, probably > > > > I think "en" is better. Because English is used in many countries > > (U.K., Austraria, New Zealand, etc.). > > Yeah, but US English is a bit different than British English.. mostly in the > form of idioms. Although I doubt it, it is entirely possible, that we might > end up with a en_UK.ISO-8559-1 (or whatever it is called). I know the differences between US and British English, of course. But, is there any needs to support 'British English' or 'Canadian English' version of documents? I think not. Currently FreeBSD supports en_AU (Austrarian), en_CA (Canadian), en_GB (British), en_US (United States). I think English version of FreeBSD documents commonly used in these countries... So, I think en_US.utf, en_US.ISO_8859-1, or en_GB.ISO_8859-1 is not appropriate for the [source|install] directory name. If FreeBSD has a plan to maintain 'British English' or 'Canadian English' version of documents separate from US English version, the name 'en_US.utf' or 'en_US.ISO_8859_1' may be suitable. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Motoyuki Konno mkonno@res.yamanashi-med.ac.jp (Univ) motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp (Home) motoyuki@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Project) Yamanashi Medical University http://www.freebsd.org/~motoyuki/ (WWW) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 16:12:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from ppp1-cergy.isdnet.net (ppp8-cergy.isdnet.net [194.149.184.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54FAC15341 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:12:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@ppp1-cergy.isdnet.net) Received: (from robert@localhost) by ppp1-cergy.isdnet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA09654 for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:11:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from robert) From: Robert Brive Message-Id: <199906282311.BAA09654@ppp1-cergy.isdnet.net> Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation In-Reply-To: <199906282226.HAA01567@sakura.snipe.rim.or.jp> from Motoyuki Konno at "Jun 29, 1999 07:26:06 am" To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:11:56 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hi, > > John Baldwin wrote: > > >> * It's incredibly inconsistent. Look at > > >> > > >> en_US.utf/ US English, probably > > > > > > I think "en" is better. Because English is used in many countries > > > (U.K., Austraria, New Zealand, etc.). > > > ... > > Currently FreeBSD supports en_AU (Austrarian), en_CA (Canadian), > en_GB (British), en_US (United States). I think English version of > FreeBSD documents commonly used in these countries... So, I think > en_US.utf, en_US.ISO_8859-1, or en_GB.ISO_8859-1 is not appropriate > for the [source|install] directory name. > > If FreeBSD has a plan to maintain 'British English' or 'Canadian > English' version of documents separate from US English version, > the name 'en_US.utf' or 'en_US.ISO_8859_1' may be suitable. > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Motoyuki Konno mkonno@res.yamanashi-med.ac.jp (Univ) > ... > I can't speak for English people but to have fr_BE.ISO_8859-1, fr_CA.ISO_8859-1, fr_CH.ISO_8859-1 AND fr_FR.ISO_8859-1 doesn't hurt me. What could be more damageable? . stay with the "en", "ja", ... directories and have to change later :-( , . wait too long on this problem - even if it is an important one - and don't go ahead on other aspects: FAQ's conversion in DocBook for example. I think Nik's position (have a clean architecture for CVS repository and a more user friendly one for the installed version) is the best solution, today. -- Robert Brive To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jun 28 17:50: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F217E14DBD for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:50:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id RAA84316; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:50:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4198714D94 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:46:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-15-77.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.15.77]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA20841 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:46:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from dkelly@localhost) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA82782; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:32:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly) Message-Id: <199906290032.TAA82782@nospam.hiwaay.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:32:10 -0500 (CDT) From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Reply-To: dkelly@hiwaay.net To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/12440: I keep forgetting "diff -ruN" Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 12440 >Category: docs >Synopsis: added an example to diff(1) man page >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: change-request >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Mon Jun 28 17:50:03 PDT 1999 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: David Kelly >Release: FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386 >Organization: n/a >Environment: >Description: For some reason every time I fix something I'd like others to consider for FreeBSD, I can't remember/find the proper syntax for diff. That is, to do diff the way the team likes it. When I go looking for this information, I know its in the handbook. Somewhere in the handbook. It used to be on the post-it note on my monitor. But I keep wishing to find it in diff(1). So I've added it to diff. Maybe I've done it right this time? Am not totally pleased with my grammar. Would be happy if somebody re-wrote it in man-ese. Just wish the "diff -ruN x.orig x" part would remain. Don't know enough man macros to know how to properly format the literal example line to represent "typed text". What I've done looks right in monospaced ASCII but probably not correct when printed to a postscript printer. >How-To-Repeat: --- gnu/usr.bin/diff/diff.1.orig Sun May 26 17:27:52 1996 +++ gnu/usr.bin/diff/diff.1 Mon Jun 28 19:17:24 1999 @@ -463,6 +463,14 @@ .TP .B \-y Use the side by side output format. +.SH EXAMPLE +This is the prefered way to output the differences in something you +wish to share with others, such as via send-pr(1) for consideration +to be included in FreeBSD. Notice 'something.orig' and 'something' +may be directories. +.sp +diff -ruN something.orig something +.sp .SH SEE ALSO cmp(1), comm(1), diff3(1), ed(1), patch(1), pr(1), sdiff(1). .SH DIAGNOSTICS >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jun 29 2:31:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from hitpro.hitachi.co.jp (hitpro.hitachi.co.jp [133.145.224.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5A1A14CEB; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 02:31:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from horikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp) Received: from newton.ebina.hitachi.co.jp by hitpro.hitachi.co.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-hitpro) id SAA18654; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:44:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (horikawa@[172.16.103.145]) by newton.ebina.hitachi.co.jp (8.9.0/3.7W-EBINA) with ESMTP id SAA06314; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:30:31 +0900 (JST) To: nclayton@lehman.com Cc: motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: tags under doc (Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:57:43 +0100" <19990628115743.G15628@lehman.com> References: <19990628115743.G15628@lehman.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on Emacs 19.34 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990629183030J.horikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:30:30 +0900 (JST) From: Kazuo Horikawa X-Dispatcher: imput version 980923(IM101) Lines: 119 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I changed subject, because I think that tagging files under doc repository is off topic of "FDP reorganisation". >>> So he asked me to come up with a way that minimises the number of >>> repository copies that are necessary. Which is what I've done. Obviously, >>> there's a trade off in terms of the information that can be preserved if >>> you can't do a repository copy, and what I'm trying to do is strike the >>> right balance between what we keep and what we lose. >> >> Under doc/ja/man, there are following tags: >> tag=release_3_2_0 >> tag=release_3_1_0 >> tag=release_3_0_0 >> tag=release_2_2_7 >> tag=RELEASE_2_2_6 >> tag=release_2_2_5 >> >> We can retrieve Japanese online manuals for the RELEASE which the tag >> represents. It is quite useful to track translation error later. So, >> we do not want to lose the tags. > Hmm, that's interesting. How do you use these tags (I'm not being obtuse > here, I'm genuinely interested). > We stopped tagging the English documentation to co-incide with the releases > a while ago, and I didn't think anyone else found it useful either. How > does this help you do the translations? The other translation teams might > find this a useful trick as well. Online manuals are (external) specifications of commands (section 1,6,8), files (section 5), and etc. Some specifications change between two RELEASEs (say RELEASE-A and RELEASE-B). So people who use RELEASE-A should refer to RELEASE-A's online manuals. And people who use RELEASE-B should refer to RELEASE-B's online manuals. For example, specifications of ppp.8 are updated frequently. So, people who use ppp on RELEASE-A should refer to the RELEASE-A's ppp.8. %% The reason why tag is needed (1) Basically, we provide Japanese online manuals which are syncing with English manuals, when RELEASE occurs (say X.Y-RELEASE). CVS tag release_X_Y_0 is for X.Y-RELEASE. Someone may say that we can retrieve Japanese manuals if we know release date of X.Y-RELEASE. But some Japanese online manuals sometimes happen to be not syncing with English manuals, when X.Y-RELEASE is released. In that case, when we have finished to sync with X.Y-RELEASE, cvs tag release_X_Y_0 under doc/ja/man, in order to users of Japanese manuals can retrieve correct manuals from CVS repository. # I pray that new commit for English online manuals (other than # amendment of typo) will not be made immediately before RELEASE # occurs every time :-) %% The reason why tag is needed (2) Some people want to use old RELEASE, because they bought FreeBSD related books or magazines with old RELEASE's CD-ROM. We can serve package ja-man-doc-X.Y (ports/japanese/man-doc) for them. But people who dislike package need to retrieve Japanese online manuals from CVS repository. Tags like release_X_Y_Z under doc/ja/man are necessary for them. %% The reason why tag is needed (3) I will show our procedure to translate English manuals to Japanese. Assume that we have RELEASE-A's English manuals and RELEASE-A's Japanese manuals. Following is the procedure: (1) retrieve English diffs between RELEASE-A and RELEASE-B (*1). (2) apply English diffs to RELEASE-A's Japanese manual (and translate English into Japanese), and get RELEASE-B's Japanese manual. (*1) RELEASE-B may be SNAPSHOTS. We receive bug reports that we had forgot to apply some English diffs to Japanese (e.g. some Japanese paragraphs do not sync with English). In that case, we should know when we had forfot to apply the diffs. And we should investigate whether another part of diffs in same English revision was applied or not. (e.g. 1. Assume we have Japanese foo.1, which is a translation of English foo.1 whose (English) revision is 1.3. 2. We find that Japanese foo.1 was not applied a part of English diffs between 1.1 and 1.2. 3. We should retrieve foo.1's English diffs between 1.1 and 1.2, and investigate whether another part of diffs was applied or not.) Someone may say we do not need to have tags like release_X_Y_Z. If we do not have tags, we must have English revision number in EACH Japanese manuals. But doc/ja/man do not have originial revision number yet. (doc/ja/handbook and doc/ja/FAQ have "Original revision:" comment to catch up with origianl (English) revision.) And I can say that retrieving English diffs between RELEASE-A and RELEASE-B and retrieving Japanese diffs between RELEASE-A and RELEASE-B is easier than retrieving English diffs between revision-a and revision-b and retrieving Japanese diffs between revision-a's translation and revision-b's translation. %% I showed three reasons why tag is needed for doc/ja/man. Even if doc/ja/man is cvs remove'd, I wish Attics under doc/ja/man/ will not be removed. -- Kazuo Horikawa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jun 29 2:32:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from alice.gba.oz.au (gba-254.tmx.com.au [203.9.155.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B5E514CF1 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 02:32:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb-freebsd@gba.oz.au) Received: (qmail 15692 invoked by uid 1001); 29 Jun 1999 18:50:43 +1000 Message-ID: <19990629085043.15691.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> X-Posted-By: GBA-Post 1.03 20-Sep-1998 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:50:42 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Nik Clayton Cc: John Baldwin , Motoyuki Konno , freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , Nik Clayton Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation References: <199906271240.VAA06437@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> <199906280427.AAA01972@smtp1.erols.com> <19990628104129.V15628@lehman.com> In-reply-to: <19990628104129.V15628@lehman.com> of Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:41:29 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > >> en_US.utf/ US English, probably > > > > > > I think "en" is better. Because English is used in many countries > > > (U.K., Austraria, New Zealand, etc.). > > > > Yeah, but US English is a bit different than British English.. mostly in the > > form of idioms. Although I doubt it, it is entirely possible, that we might > > end up with a en_UK.ISO-8559-1 (or whatever it is called). > > Yep. The Makefile in there would s/color/colour/ before generating any > of the files. . . I hope it would also s/British English/English/ as well. The idea that real English needs some qualifier is pretty weird. -- Greg Black -- or Fight censorship in Australia: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jun 29 5:46:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D1714EAB for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 05:46:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA36105 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:46:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: please... From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:46:21 +0200 Message-ID: <36103.930660381@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've noticed that this bit of -core policy never made it into section 20 of the handbook, could one of you guys SGMLify it and add it please ? Policy on encumbered files in the source tree -- PUBLIC SECTION -------------------------------------------------- 1. Any file which is interpreted or executed by the system CPU(s) and not in source format is encumbered. 2. Any file with a license more restrictive than BSD or GNU is encumbered. 3. A file which contains downloadable binary data for use by the hardware is not encumbered, unless 1) or 2) applies to it. It must be stored in an architecture neutral ASCII format. (file2c or uuencoding recommended) 4. Any encumbered file requires approval from -core before it is added to the CVS repository. -- (CORE) PRIVATE SECTION ------------------------------------------ 5. Encumbered files go in src/contrib or src/sys/contrib 6. The entire module should be kept together. There is no point in splitting it, unless there is code-sharing with non-encumbered code. 7. Object files are named .../${arch}/*.o.uu 8.a. kernel files I. Should always be referenced in conf/files.* (for build simplicity) II. Should always be in LINT, but core decides per case if it should be commented out or not. Core can of course change its mind later on. III. Release engineer decides if it goes into the releases. 8.b user-land files I. Core decides if the code should be part of make world II. Release engineer decides if it goes into the releases. -- END ------------------------------------------------------------- -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jun 29 8:50:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74BB615253 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:50:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id IAA00449; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:50:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from logatome.micronet.fr (logatome-2.francenet.fr [193.149.96.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20BA914BCC for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 03:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Sebastien.Gioria@FranceNet.fr) Received: from gioria.dialup.FranceNet.fr (eku28.francenet.fr [193.149.97.60]) by logatome.micronet.fr (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01473 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:17:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: by gioria.dialup.FranceNet.fr (Postfix, from userid 42) id 623E01FFFF; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:19:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <19990629101921.623E01FFFF@gioria.dialup.FranceNet.fr> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:19:21 +0200 (CEST) From: eagle@freebsd-fr.org Reply-To: eagle@freebsd-fr.org To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/12445: ATAPI IDE interface seem to be ALPHA in handbook doc Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 12445 >Category: docs >Synopsis: ATAPI IDE interface seem to be ALPHA in handbook doc >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Tue Jun 29 08:50:04 PDT 1999 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Sebastien GIORIA >Release: FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386 >Organization: FreeBSD - The power to serve >Environment: >Description: In the handbook ATAPI IDE interface is mentionned as ALPHA. It's outdated no ? >How-To-Repeat: Read the handbook in the chapter install FreeBSD >Fix: --- chapter.sgml.old Mon Jun 14 23:41:21 1999 +++ chapter.sgml Tue Jun 29 12:14:22 1999 @@ -488,8 +488,7 @@ - ATAPI IDE interface (experimental and should be considered - ALPHA quality!) (wcd) + ATAPI IDE interface (wcd) >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jun 29 8:50:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33CBE1508E for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:50:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id IAA00473; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:50:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906291550.IAA00473@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Sheldon Hearn Subject: Re: docs/12440: added an example to diff(1) man page Reply-To: Sheldon Hearn Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/12440; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Sheldon Hearn To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org Cc: mpp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: docs/12440: added an example to diff(1) man page Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:13:08 +0200 The handbook says that the context diff is preferred, but your example uses the unified diff. Funnily enough, though, I note that both you and I obviously prefer unified diffs. :-) You should call the section "EXAMPLES" instead of "EXAMPLE" to keep the manpage consistent with other manpages and with the guidelines in the mdoc.samples(7) manpage. Also, you really are putting your information in the wrong place. You might be able to get away with that by changing the wording. Are you happy with the diff below? Ciao, Sheldon. Index: diff.1 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/gnu/usr.bin/diff/diff.1,v retrieving revision 1.3 diff -u -d -r1.3 diff.1 --- diff.1 1996/05/26 22:27:52 1.3 +++ diff.1 1999/06/29 13:09:26 @@ -463,6 +463,20 @@ .TP .B \-y Use the side by side output format. +.SH EXAMPLES +To save to a file some changes that you have made to your local source +tree (possibly including new files), which you would like to show to others +(perhaps using the +.B send-pr(1) +program), you could type +.sp +diff -crN foo.orig foo >foo.diff +.sp +where +.I foo.orig +and +.I foo +might be directory hierarchies or single files. .SH SEE ALSO cmp(1), comm(1), diff3(1), ed(1), patch(1), pr(1), sdiff(1). .SH DIAGNOSTICS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jun 29 12:46:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nwcst285.netaddress.usa.net (nwcst285.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0E96414D87 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 16017 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jun 1999 19:51:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19990629195146.16016.qmail@nwcst285.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.30 by nwcst285 via web-mailer(M3.2.0.17) on Tue Jun 29 19:51:45 GMT 1999 Date: 29 Jun 99 12:51:45 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: pstat -k; pstat -n X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Both options for pstat(8) seem not = to function. Either option will return: = vidi: {121} pstat -k = usage: pstat [-Tfknstv] [-M core] [-N system] = vidi: {122} pstat -n = usage: pstat [-Tfknstv] [-M core] [-N system] = As a seperate question, I see this quite often. = What is the issue? Aren't the writers of = these utils making changes to the man pages? = Are they supposed to make the changes? = If not, who is responsible for these changes? = --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jun 29 12:48: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from www0w.netaddress.usa.net (www0w.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EA8EC14D87 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:48:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 14485 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jun 1999 19:48:02 -0000 Message-ID: <19990629194802.14484.qmail@www0w.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.52 by www0w via web-mailer(M3.2.0.17) on Tue Jun 29 19:48:02 GMT 1999 Date: 29 Jun 99 12:48:02 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: what is the policy for builtin shell functions? X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've note many builtin functions for csh(1) and sh(1) = have no apropos(1) or whatis(1). = Especially annoying are 'limit' and 'unlimit'. = Require people to become experts in shell = scripting seems excessive. Remembering = all the builtins is dumb. That is what = I have a computer for... I don't want = to remember certain things. = What is the policy for 'builtin' shell functions? = --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jun 29 13:40:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nwcst287.netaddress.usa.net (nwcst287.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 977A014EB5 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:40:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 5050 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jun 1999 20:45:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990629204524.5049.qmail@nwcst287.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.32 by nwcst287 via web-mailer(M3.2.0.17) on Tue Jun 29 20:45:24 GMT 1999 Date: 29 Jun 99 13:45:24 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Need FAQ X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org While implementing mysql for a client that uses zipcodes it became apparent that not enough file handles were available. Searching for the answer encompassed 2+ hours. I saw the question in many places and it was not until I set the search facility for the website (freebsd.org) to 'maxlimit=3D500 answers' = that I could find the answer. Nothing less, this seems to be need as an FAQ, as quoted: > This seems to be a FAQ (Frequently Asked Question). Unfortunately, > it seems to seems to also be a NAQ (Never Answered Question). I > myself have asked it several times and the answers, involving > CHILD_MAX and OPEN_MAX and limits, never work. Apparently, FreeBSD > is too primitive to handle more than a few files at once. > Please note I saw a person answer with: "Can't you read the documentation?" Well, if I knew where to look, I wouldn't ask. Lastly, the URL that follows seemed to be the only answer that can close to giving good response, but even this answer is poor: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=3D32192+0+/usr/local/www/db/t= ext/1997/freebsd-hackers/19970803.freebsd-hackers --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jun 29 22:15:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from guru.phone.net (guru.phone.net [209.157.82.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A6B9154BF for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:15:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwm@phone.net) Received: (qmail 72930 invoked by uid 100); 30 Jun 1999 05:14:58 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 05:14:58 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:14:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Meyer To: pgsql-docs@postgresql.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, webmaster@python.org, apache-docs@apache.org Subject: HOWTO/tutorial/walkthrough... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I put together a tutorial on building a database-backed web site using software that your group provides. I hope I've found the appropriate mail addresses for each group to point out this document for possible use on your web site, or announcement via an appropriate mail list. If not, I'd appreciate if this could be forwarded to that address, or a notice so I could contact that person. The tutorial can be found at . It was originally written for a talk, so does tend to be a bit brief. However, it might be appropriate as a quick howto or tutorial for the various packages I used. It quickly covers setting up a system, installing and configuring the appropriate software, and then starting it working. Any corrections or suggestion you may have would be most appreciated. Thanx, ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:45:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id BAA12989; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 01:46:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199906300546.BAA12989@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions? In-Reply-To: <19990629194802.14484.qmail@www0w.netaddress.usa.net> from Jesus Monroy at "Jun 29, 99 12:48:02 pm" To: jesus.monroy@usa.net (Jesus Monroy) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 01:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jesus Monroy wrote, > > I've note many builtin functions for csh(1) and sh(1) > have no apropos(1) or whatis(1). > > Especially annoying are 'limit' and 'unlimit'. $ man limit CSH(1) FreeBSD General Commands Manual CSH(1) NAME csh - a shell (command interpreter) with C-like syntax . . . $ uname -sr FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 3:17: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nw177.netaddress.usa.net (nw177.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3DE05154AF for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 03:16:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 12050 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jun 1999 10:16:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19990630101656.12049.qmail@nw177.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.77 by nw177 via web-mailer() on Wed Jun 30 10:16:56 GMT 1999 Date: 30 Jun 99 03:16:56 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: cjclark@home.com Subject: Re: [Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions?] Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer () Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey I can burn up bandwidth also. "Crist J. Clark", you have a plainly useless comment. Let me assist you in making even more useless. "Crist J. Clark" wrote: > Jesus Monroy wrote, > > = > > I've note many builtin functions for csh(1) and sh(1) = > > have no apropos(1) or whatis(1). = > > = > > Especially annoying are 'limit' and 'unlimit'. = > = > $ man limit > = > CSH(1) FreeBSD General Commands Manual = CSH(1) > = > NAME > csh - a shell (command interpreter) with C-like syntax > . > . > . > = > $ uname -sr > FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE > = vidi: {126} whatis limit timelimit(1) - spawn a subprocess and if the child does not finish within= the time limit either kill it, or exit, leavin g the child in the background vidi: {127} uname -v FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #0: Mon Jan 1 03:20:27 PST 1996 = root@vidi.dnull.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/VIDI vidi: {128} = --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 8:31:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from relay04.netaddress.usa.net (relay04.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F40EF14EEB for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:31:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 15510 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 15:31:05 -0000 Received: from www0s.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.48) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 15:31:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 8602 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jun 1999 15:31:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19990630153105.8601.qmail@www0s.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.48 by www0s via web-mailer() on Wed Jun 30 15:31:05 GMT 1999 Date: 30 Jun 99 08:31:05 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: tvidigal@globalsite.com.br , freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [www.deathworld.com.br] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer () Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "tvidigal@globalsite.com.br" wrote: > Do you want yo be my backer? > I saw your banner in many pages and i'd like to have you as my backer. > Ass: Thiago > = I'm sorry my english is very poor. What was your question? --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 8:39:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nwcst292.netaddress.usa.net (nwcst292.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AE319154ED for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:39:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 15733 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jun 1999 15:47:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19990630154723.15732.qmail@nwcst292.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.37 by nwcst292 via web-mailer() on Wed Jun 30 15:47:23 GMT 1999 Date: 30 Jun 99 08:47:23 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Crist J.Clark , freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Re: docs/12343: make.conf documentation error COM2 (low priority)] Cc: thepinkpages@email.com X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer () Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Crist J. Clark" wrote: > The following reply was made to PR docs/12343; it has been noted by GNA= TS. > = > From: "Crist J. Clark" > To: wjgrun@dippy.cyberwar.com > Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: docs/12343: make.conf documentation error COM2 (low priori= ty) > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:49:38 -0400 (EDT) > = > Bill Grunfelder wrote, > > = > > >Number: 12343 > > >Category: docs > > >Synopsis: make.conf error in documentation (COM2) > > >Environment: > > = > > relevant lines from /etc/make.conf shown below: > > # By default we use COM1 as our serial console port *if* we're going= to use > > # a serial port as our console at all. (0x3E8 =3D COM2) > > # > > #BOOT_COMCONSOLE_PORT=3D 0x3F8 > > = > > >Description: > > = > > 0x3E8 is not COM2 ... 0x2F8 > = > COM1 =3D sio0 =3D 0x3f8 > COM2 =3D sio1 =3D 0x2f8 > COM3 =3D sio2 =3D 0x3e8 > = Will verify with IBM documentation at next chance. --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 11:10:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.gte.net (mail1.gte.net [207.115.153.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7514D15584 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:10:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sasentt@gte.net) Received: from default (1Cust31.tnt5.tampa.fl.da.uu.net [153.37.189.31]) by mail1.gte.net with ESMTP for ; id NAA03883 Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:10:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906301810.NAA03883@mail1.gte.net> From: "CarolynHenderson" To: Subject: Installation of FreeBSD. ORG Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:13:12 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please send me the freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG. I'll will be sending my registration form in next week with the money order of $25.00. Thank you Sincerely, sasentt@gte.net Carolyn Henderson 5002 S. Bridge St. #309 Tampa, Fl 33611-3218 (813) 805-2255 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 11:11:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.gte.net (mail1.gte.net [207.115.153.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E282155E5 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:10:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sasentt@gte.net) Received: from default (1Cust31.tnt5.tampa.fl.da.uu.net [153.37.189.31]) by mail1.gte.net with ESMTP for ; id NAA05017 Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:10:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906301810.NAA05017@mail1.gte.net> From: "CarolynHenderson" To: Subject: Fw: Installation of FreeBSD. ORG Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:37:47 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ---------- > From: CarolynHenderson > To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Installation of FreeBSD. ORG > Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 1:13 PM > > Please send me the freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG. I'll will be sending my > registration form in next week with the money order of $25.00. Thank you > > Sincerely, > > > > sasentt@gte.net > Carolyn Henderson > 5002 S. Bridge St. #309 > Tampa, Fl 33611-3218 > (813) 805-2255 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 11:11:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.gte.net (mail1.gte.net [207.115.153.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA1C7155F3 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:11:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sasentt@gte.net) Received: from default (1Cust31.tnt5.tampa.fl.da.uu.net [153.37.189.31]) by mail1.gte.net with ESMTP for ; id NAA10419 Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:10:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906301810.NAA10419@mail1.gte.net> From: "Carolyn Henderson" To: Subject: Fw: Installation of FreeBSD. ORG Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:56:06 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ---------- > From: CarolynHenderson > To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Installation of FreeBSD. ORG > Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 1:13 PM > > Please send me the freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG. I'll will be sending my > registration form in next week with the money order of $25.00. Thank you > > Sincerely, > > > > sasentt@gte.net > Carolyn Henderson > 5002 S. Bridge St. #309 > Tampa, Fl 33611-3218 > (813) 805-2255 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 13:28: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43D2214BDE for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA71265; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:39:07 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:39:05 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Jesus Monroy Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions? Message-ID: <19990630203904.A68144@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990629194802.14484.qmail@www0w.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990629194802.14484.qmail@www0w.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Tue, Jun 29, 1999 at 12:48:02PM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 29, 1999 at 12:48:02PM -0700, Jesus Monroy wrote: > I've note many builtin functions for csh(1) and sh(1) > have no apropos(1) or whatis(1). > > Especially annoying are 'limit' and 'unlimit'. Couldn't agree more. Please file a PR about this. One that includes patches would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 13:28: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89A2215660 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:27:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA72164; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:46:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:46:01 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Jesus Monroy Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pstat -k; pstat -n Message-ID: <19990630204601.B68144@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990629195146.16016.qmail@nwcst285.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990629195146.16016.qmail@nwcst285.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Tue, Jun 29, 1999 at 12:51:45PM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 29, 1999 at 12:51:45PM -0700, Jesus Monroy wrote: > Both options for pstat(8) seem not > to function. Either option will return: > > vidi: {121} pstat -k > usage: pstat [-Tfknstv] [-M core] [-N system] > vidi: {122} pstat -n > usage: pstat [-Tfknstv] [-M core] [-N system] Right, but wrong. Both of those options should be run in conjunction with other options, as my cursory reading of the man page makes clear. Perhaps you skipped it in your haste to point out non-existant flaws? Specifically; # echo $BLOCKSIZE BLOCKSIZE: Undefined variable # pstat -s Device 512-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/da0s1b 262144 61760 200128 24% Interleaved /dev/da1s1b 262144 57992 203896 22% Interleaved Total 523776 119752 404024 23% # pstat -sk Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/da0s1b 131072 30880 100064 24% Interleaved /dev/da1s1b 131072 28996 101948 22% Interleaved Total 261888 59876 202012 23% As you can see, in the second example -k has caused the output to be reported in kilobyte blocks and not 512 byte blocks. -n works in a similar fashion. > As a seperate question, I see this quite often. Perhaps not as often as you think. > What is the issue? Aren't the writers of > these utils making changes to the man pages? Yes they are, by and large. Sometimes they forget, and we try and remind them. Reading the cvs-all mailing list for any length of time should show this. > Are they supposed to make the changes? Yes. > If not, who is responsible for these changes? People that notice problems. Either by sending a PR, or, if they're a committer themselves, taking it up with the last person to change that utility, confirming that it was an oversight, and fixing the problem. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 13:48:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 796AD15558 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:48:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip145.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.145]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED93370AB; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA69864; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:47:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:47:40 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Jesus Monroy Cc: cjclark@home.com, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions?] Message-ID: <19990630154739.D67585@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <19990630101656.12049.qmail@nw177.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <19990630101656.12049.qmail@nw177.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 03:16:56AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 30, 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: > vidi: {126} whatis limit > timelimit(1) - spawn a subprocess and if the child does not finish within the > time limit either kill it, or exit, leavin > g the child in the background > vidi: {127} uname -v > FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #0: Mon Jan 1 03:20:27 PST 1996 > root@vidi.dnull.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/VIDI > vidi: {128} Stop sending this useless whining, stop changing the subject line, and fix the problems. The 'retarded' problem report system will help you do that. -- Chris Costello It said, "Insert disk #3," but only two will fit! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 13:52:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0559155AE for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:52:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id QAA14834; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:53:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199906302053.QAA14834@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: [Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions?] In-Reply-To: <19990630101656.12049.qmail@nw177.netaddress.usa.net> from Jesus Monroy at "Jun 30, 99 03:16:56 am" To: jesus.monroy@usa.net (Jesus Monroy) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Cc: cjclark@home.com, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jesus Monroy wrote, > Hey I can burn up bandwidth also. > "Crist J. Clark", you have a plainly useless comment. > Let me assist you in making even more useless. Sorry that you did not understand the utility of my remark. In trying to conserver precious bandwidth, I guess I assumed the reader would understand my line of thought. > "Crist J. Clark" wrote: > > Jesus Monroy wrote, > > > > > > I've note many builtin functions for csh(1) and sh(1) > > > have no apropos(1) or whatis(1). > > > > > > Especially annoying are 'limit' and 'unlimit'. > > > > $ man limit > > > > CSH(1) FreeBSD General Commands Manual > CSH(1) > > > > NAME > > csh - a shell (command interpreter) with C-like syntax > > . > > . > > . > > > > $ uname -sr > > FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE I was pointing out that there are links to the csh(1) manpage for various shell bulit-in commands. However, since these are hardlinked to the same csh(1) manpage, they will not show up in apropos as long as the brief description of csh(1) appears as such. But you are right, that there are no hacked files to make dummy entries in the whatis database like there is for bash(1). Feel free to make a dummy page like bash's if it bothers you. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 14:53:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15AB714DCC for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:53:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abrandt@primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17400 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:53:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd017361; Wed Jun 30 14:53:37 1999 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:53:36 -0700 (MST) From: Aaron Brandt To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Sound Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have searched freebsd.org for documantaion on setting up sound but was unlucky. Is there anywhere I can find info on this? Thanx!! Aaron.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 17:17: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7401B15862 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:16:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA01890; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:46:57 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA81779; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:46:54 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:46:54 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Carolyn Henderson Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: Installation of FreeBSD. ORG Message-ID: <19990701094653.C79211@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199906301810.NAA05017@mail1.gte.net> <199906301810.NAA03883@mail1.gte.net> <199906301810.NAA10419@mail1.gte.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906301810.NAA10419@mail1.gte.net>; from Carolyn Henderson on Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 01:56:06PM -0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 28 June 1999 at 13:13:12 -0000, CarolynHenderson wrote: > Please send me the freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG. I'll will be sending my > registration form in next week with the money order of $25.00. Thank you On Wednesday, 30 June 1999 at 13:56:06 -0000, Carolyn Henderson wrote: > >> From: CarolynHenderson >> To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG >> Subject: Installation of FreeBSD. ORG >> Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 1:13 PM >> >> Please send me the freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG. I'll will be sending my >> registration form in next week with the money order of $25.00. Thank you On Tuesday, 29 June 1999 at 20:37:47 -0000, CarolynHenderson wrote: > ---------- >> From: CarolynHenderson >> To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG >> Subject: Installation of FreeBSD. ORG >> Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 1:13 PM >> >> Please send me the freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG. I'll will be sending my >> registration form in next week with the money order of $25.00. Thank you You appear to be very confused. Firstly, you can't really expect an answer to a message within 40 minutes, so the first reminder was inappropriate. The second one is still far too early; wait two or three days. Secondly, I'm sure none of us know what you're talking about here. The FreeBSD Documentation project doesn't sell anything. If you're looking for a FreeBSD CD-ROM, contact info@cdrom.com, or look at the web site http://www.cdrom.com/. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 17:48:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from sasquatch.dannyland.org (sasquatch.dannyland.org [207.229.158.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 230DB153CC for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:48:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dannyman@sasquatch.dannyland.org) Received: (qmail 12187 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Jul 1999 00:48:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:48:42 -0500 From: dannyman To: Aaron Brandt Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sound Message-ID: <19990630194841.D24511@dannyland.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Aaron Brandt on Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 02:53:36PM -0700 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 02:53:36PM -0700, Aaron Brandt wrote: > > I have searched freebsd.org for documantaion on setting up sound but > was unlucky. Is there anywhere I can find info on this? Check "recompiling your kernel" in the Handbook. Once you're comfortable doing this, look at LINT to see about setting up support for your sound card. HTH, danny -- dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 19:41:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AF3591528C for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:41:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tmoog@polhode.com) Received: (qmail 19622 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 02:41:18 -0000 Received: from 207-229-150-58.d.enteract.com (HELO polhode2) (207.229.150.58) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 02:41:18 -0000 Message-ID: <00b901bec36b$3a1c9020$3aade5cf@polhode2> From: "Tom Moog" To: Subject: pccts package Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:41:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I am the maintainer of pccts 1.33, now at version 1.33mr19 (maintenance release 19). The information you have on pccts is woefully out-of-date. The version you reference (based at www.antlr.org) is probably 3 years old and should not be used. For more information visit my web page: http://www.polhode.com/pccts.html Tom Moog Polhode, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 22:30: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B5A214C83 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:30:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA22955; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:30:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907010530.WAA22955@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Chris Costello Subject: Re: docs/12181 Reply-To: Chris Costello Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/12181; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Chris Costello To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/12181 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:27:44 -0500 This patch should deal with the quotes problem. Index: chapter.sgml =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en/handbook/kernelconfig/chapter.sgml,v retrieving revision 1.16 diff -u -r1.16 chapter.sgml --- chapter.sgml 1999/05/28 00:31:25 1.16 +++ chapter.sgml 1999/07/01 05:26:13 @@ -21,7 +21,7 @@ Building a custom kernel is one of the most important rites of passage every Unix system administrator must endure. This process, while time-consuming, will provide many benefits to your FreeBSD system. - Unlike the GENERIC kernel, which must support every + Unlike the GENERIC kernel, which must support every possible SCSI and network card, along with tons of other rarely used hardware support, a custom kernel only contains support for your PC's hardware. This has a number of @@ -195,7 +195,8 @@ - machine "i386" + machine arch + The first keyword is machine, which, @@ -272,19 +273,19 @@ Next, we have ident, which is the identification of the kernel. You should change this from - GENERIC to whatever you named your kernel, in - this example, MYKERNEL. The value you put in + GENERIC to whatever you named your kernel, in + this example, MYKERNEL. The value you put in ident will print when you boot up the kernel, so it is useful to give a kernel a different name if you want to keep it separate from your usual kernel (if you want to build an experimental kernel, for example). Note that, as with - machine and cpu, enclose + machine and cpu, enclose your kernel's name in quotation marks if it contains any numbers. Since this name is passed to the C compiler as a switch, do not use names like - DEBUG, or something that could be confused + DEBUG, or something that could be confused with another machine or CPU name, like vax. @@ -870,7 +871,7 @@ - device st0 + device sa0 Support for SCSI tape drives. @@ -1403,9 +1404,9 @@ Sound cards This is the first section containing lines that are not in the - GENERIC kernel. To include sound card support, you will have to copy - the appropriate lines from the LINT kernel (which contains support for - every device) as follows: + GENERIC kernel. To include sound card support, you + will have to copy the appropriate lines from the LINT kernel (which + support for every device) as follows: -- Chris Costello If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jun 30 23:50: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA2114C83 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:50:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA29691; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:50:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2488514C83 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:49:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip145.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.145]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B090F371FA for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 02:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA71743; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:49:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Message-Id: <199907010649.BAA71743@holly.dyndns.org> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:49:12 -0500 (CDT) From: chris@calldei.com Reply-To: chris@calldei.com To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: docs/12472: [Patch] kldload man page mentions kldload in .Nm Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 12472 >Category: docs >Synopsis: [Patch] kldload man page mentions kldload in .Nm >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Wed Jun 30 23:50:01 PDT 1999 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Chris Costello >Release: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT i386 >Organization: none >Environment: $Id: kldload.2,v 1.2 1999/04/09 14:31:59 bde Exp $ >Description: The manual page shows 'kldload, kldunload - Loads a file ...' which is wrong, as the man pages for kldload and kldunload are separate. Also, perhaps the manual pages should be merged into -STABLE from -CURRENT. >How-To-Repeat: man kldload >Fix: Index: kldload.2 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/lib/libc/sys/kldload.2,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -u -r1.2 kldload.2 --- kldload.2 1999/04/09 14:31:59 1.2 +++ kldload.2 1999/07/01 06:45:04 @@ -30,8 +30,7 @@ .Dt KLDLOAD 2 .Os FreeBSD .Sh NAME -.Nm kldload , -.Nm kldunload +.Nm kldload .Nd load KLD files into the kernel .Sh SYNOPSIS .Fd #include >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 0: 0: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B468114C83 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:00:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id AAA30759; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:00:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907010700.AAA30759@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Chris Costello Subject: Re: docs/12472: [Patch] kldload man page mentions kldload in .Nm Reply-To: Chris Costello Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/12472; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Chris Costello To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Subject: Re: docs/12472: [Patch] kldload man page mentions kldload in .Nm Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:53:28 -0500 On Thu, Jul 1, 1999, chris@calldei.com wrote: > >Synopsis: [Patch] kldload man page mentions kldload in .Nm Argh! mentions kldunload! I'll just blame it on the fact that I'm doing this at 2 AM. -- Chris Costello If a train station is where the train stops, what is a work station? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 2:45:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from www0w.netaddress.usa.net (www0w.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F1E714F33 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 02:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 16439 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jul 1999 09:45:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990701094520.16438.qmail@www0w.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.52 by www0w via web-mailer() on Thu Jul 1 09:45:20 GMT 1999 Date: 1 Jul 99 02:45:20 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Nik Clayton Subject: Re: [Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions?] Cc: doc@freebsd.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer () Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nik Clayton wrote: > On Tue, Jun 29, 1999 at 12:48:02PM -0700, Jesus Monroy wrote: > > I've note many builtin functions for csh(1) and sh(1) = > > have no apropos(1) or whatis(1). = > > = > > Especially annoying are 'limit' and 'unlimit'. = > = > Couldn't agree more. Please file a PR about this. One that includes = > patches would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. > = Can't patch, don't know how. = Don't want to CVS (at all). Can PR. What do you want include? Where do I PR? How is it done? --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 3: 5:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nwcst277.netaddress.usa.net (nwcst277.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CC09314F5F for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 03:05:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 26103 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jul 1999 10:05:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19990701100518.26102.qmail@nwcst277.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.22 by nwcst277 via web-mailer() on Thu Jul 1 10:05:18 GMT 1999 Date: 1 Jul 99 03:05:18 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Nik Clayton Subject: Re: [Re: pstat -k; pstat -n] Cc: doc@freebsd.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer () Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nik Clayton wrote: > On Tue, Jun 29, 1999 at 12:51:45PM -0700, Jesus Monroy wrote: > > Both options for pstat(8) seem not = > > to function. Either option will return: = > > = > > vidi: {121} pstat -k = > > usage: pstat [-Tfknstv] [-M core] [-N system] = > > vidi: {122} pstat -n = > > usage: pstat [-Tfknstv] [-M core] [-N system] = > = > Right, but wrong. Both of those options should be run in conjunction > with > other options, as my cursory reading of the man page makes clear. = > Perhaps > you skipped it in your haste to point out non-existant flaws? > = Perhaps, but I note that this is not documented well in the man pages. That is, when a flags such as these are needed it is note that the flags work ONLY with others. = This is consistency make it difficult to get the right = answer. Basically, if you don't know, you have to guess. This then renders the man page next to useless for providing this information. To be explicitly clear, if a flag only works in conjunction with other flags IT SHOULD SAY SO in the man pages. The man pages are there to = help with the correct answer. Aren't they? I know I've seen some man pages do it correctly, I just can recall which. = > > As a seperate question, I see this quite often. = > = > Perhaps not as often as you think. > = I've always hoped for that. > > What is the issue? Aren't the writers of = > > these utils making changes to the man pages? = > = > Yes they are, by and large. Sometimes they forget, and we try and > re= mind > them. Reading the cvs-all mailing list for any length of time should = > show this. > = No, don't have time for cvs-anything. Am taxed as it is. But why would I look in the CVS anyway? This is about documentation, not version control. > > Are they supposed to make the changes? = > = > Yes. > = > > If not, who is responsible for these changes? = > = > People that notice problems. Either by sending a PR, or, if they're a = > committer themselves, taking it up with the last person to change that > utility, confirming that it was an oversight, and fixing the problem. > = Yes, that is what I had surmised. Can I quote you on this? BTW, thank you for concise clear answer. I'll try to do the same. --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 3: 8:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from relay04.netaddress.usa.net (relay04.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C4BB414F5F for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 03:08:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 18165 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 10:08:23 -0000 Received: from nw174.netaddress.usa.net (HELO .netaddress.usa.net) (204.68.24.74) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 10:08:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 23256 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jul 1999 10:08:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19990701100823.23255.qmail@.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.74 by nw174 via web-mailer() on Thu Jul 1 10:08:23 GMT 1999 Date: 1 Jul 99 03:08:23 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: chris@calldei.com Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions?]] Cc: cjclark@home.com, doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer () Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Costello wrote: > On Wed, Jun 30, 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: > > vidi: {126} whatis limit > > timelimit(1) - spawn a subprocess and if the child does not finish wi= thin the > > time limit either kill it, or exit, leavin > > g the child in the background > > vidi: {127} uname -v > > FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #0: Mon Jan 1 03:20:27 PST 1996 = > > root@vidi.dnull.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/VIDI > > vidi: {128} = > = > Stop sending this useless whining, stop changing the subject > line, and fix the problems. The 'retarded' problem report system > will help you do that. > = Cris you are living in a hole somewhere. The sun will shine today. --- "I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, = pop-up-happy dungeon like NT." http://www.performancecomputing.com/features/9809of1.shtml ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 3:10:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A07314F5F for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 03:10:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA66960; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 03:09:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Jesus Monroy Cc: Nik Clayton , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions?] In-reply-to: Your message of "01 Jul 1999 02:45:20 PDT." <19990701094520.16438.qmail@www0w.netaddress.usa.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 03:09:21 -0700 Message-ID: <66957.930823761@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Can't patch, don't know how. > Don't want to CVS (at all). > Can PR. What do you want include? Where do I PR? All of this is well documented at http://www.freebsd.org. Either avail yourself of the documentation available to every developer concerning these exact issues or stop wasting our time. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 3:58: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5025E14CE6; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 03:58:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id DAA57948; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 03:58:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@FreeBSD.org) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 03:58:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Message-Id: <199907011058.DAA57948@freefall.freebsd.org> To: gson@araneus.fi, mpp@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/10331: pccardd(8) claims FreeBSD does not support LKMs Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: pccardd(8) claims FreeBSD does not support LKMs State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: mpp State-Changed-When: Thu Jul 1 03:56:14 PDT 1999 State-Changed-Why: Fixed. The language that states that FreeBSD dosn't support LKMs gas been removed and the .Dt problem has been fixed. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 5:14:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from talon.clark.net (talon.clark.net [168.143.5.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC0114DA5 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 05:14:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tsingle@talon.clark.net) Received: (from tsingle@localhost) by talon.clark.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA19350; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:24:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tsingle) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907011224.IAA19350@talon.clark.net> From: Tim Singletary To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: ndbm function man pages? Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [This is a retry. I never saw my first attempt; it was sent through a promiscuous sendmail and might have been spam-filtered somewhere along the way. So, apologies if you're seeing this for the second time!] I just noticed that FreeBSD 3.2 doesn't have man pages for the ndbm functions (dbm_open(), dbm_close(), dbm_fetch(), etc) even though these are in libc. Is this the appropriate place to ask why? Is anyone fixing this? If not, I can submit a bare-bone stub-of-a-man-page for these functions ... Thanks, tim To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 5:14:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA4114DCE; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 05:14:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from sheldonh@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id FAA69338; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 05:14:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@FreeBSD.org) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 05:14:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Message-Id: <199907011214.FAA69338@freefall.freebsd.org> To: sheldonh@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, sheldonh@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/12472: [Patch] kldload man page mentions kldload in .Nm Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: [Patch] kldload man page mentions kldload in .Nm Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->sheldonh Responsible-Changed-By: sheldonh Responsible-Changed-When: Thu Jul 1 05:13:43 PDT 1999 Responsible-Changed-Why: I'll take this one -- the whole family needs cross-references as well. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 9:28:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7163A14E6A for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA74443; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:26:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:26:49 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Jesus Monroy Cc: chris@calldei.com, cjclark@home.com, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions?]] Message-ID: <19990701092649.B69535@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990701100823.23255.qmail@.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990701100823.23255.qmail@.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Thu, Jul 01, 1999 at 03:08:23AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 01, 1999 at 03:08:23AM -0700, Jesus Monroy wrote: > Cris you are living in a hole somewhere. > The sun will shine today. No, no, no. The syllable counts are all wrong. Chris lives in a hole. Jesus annoys committers. The sun shines today. -- Matthew Hunt * Science rules. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 13: 5: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDD5A15083 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:05:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip145.houston3.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.169.145]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEADC3ACBE; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA73196; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:59:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:59:30 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Jesus Monroy Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions?]] Message-ID: <19990701115930.H71244@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <19990701100823.23255.qmail@.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <19990701100823.23255.qmail@.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Thu, Jul 01, 1999 at 03:08:23AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 1, 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: > Cris you are living in a hole somewhere. > The sun will shine today. Interesting you should say that. At least I've helped out the project in a positive way. I've written man pages (kld*(2)), and I am still working on updating the handbook. Tell me, when was the last time you actually fixed a man page or a handbook/FAQ/tutorial page yourself? -- Chris Costello Programming is an unnatural act. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 16:54:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB854151EB for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:54:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA54108; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:04:55 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:04:55 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Jesus Monroy Cc: Nik Clayton , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions?] Message-ID: <19990701210455.A53704@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990701094520.16438.qmail@www0w.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990701094520.16438.qmail@www0w.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Thu, Jul 01, 1999 at 02:45:20AM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 01, 1999 at 02:45:20AM -0700, Jesus Monroy wrote: > Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 29, 1999 at 12:48:02PM -0700, Jesus Monroy wrote: > > > I've note many builtin functions for csh(1) and sh(1) > > > have no apropos(1) or whatis(1). > > > > > > Especially annoying are 'limit' and 'unlimit'. > > > > Couldn't agree more. Please file a PR about this. One that includes > > Can't patch, don't know how. If you want to learn, it's explained in the Handbook, in the "Contributing to FreeBSD" chapter. > Don't want to CVS (at all). You don't need CVS, just "diff" and "patch", which come with the base system. > Can PR. What do you want include? Where do I PR? > How is it done? Follow the instructions in the previously mentioned chapter. Thanks, N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 16:54:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F0F114DD0 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:54:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA54620; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:08:58 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:08:58 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Jesus Monroy Cc: Nik Clayton , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Re: pstat -k; pstat -n] Message-ID: <19990701210858.B53704@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990701100518.26102.qmail@nwcst277.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990701100518.26102.qmail@nwcst277.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Thu, Jul 01, 1999 at 03:05:18AM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jul 01, 1999 at 03:05:18AM -0700, Jesus Monroy wrote: > Perhaps, but I note that this is not documented well in > the man pages. That is, when a flags such as these > are needed it is note that the flags work ONLY with > others. From pstat(1) -n Print devices out by major/minor instead of name. -k Print sizes in kilobytes, regardless of the setting of the BLOCK- SIZE environment variable. I'm a native English speaker, and both of those imply to me that some other option is going to be specifying that I want devices and/or sizes printed in a different format. If you find that confusing, could you suggest an alternative wording that isn't confusing? > > Yes they are, by and large. Sometimes they forget, and we try and > remind > > them. Reading the cvs-all mailing list for any length of time should > > show this. > > No, don't have time for cvs-anything. Am taxed as it is. > But why would I look in the CVS anyway? > This is about documentation, not version control. Your question was "Who was responsible?". If you read the CVS mailing lists you'll frequently see people committing changes to both the code and the man pages, and you'll less frequently see people committing changes to the code, and forgetting the man pages. Normally someone else gently reminds them to update the man page as well. Not everyone has the time to read the cvs-all mailing list, and I'm not surprised, as most of the time it is deathly boring. I think your question comes under the "No one's ever asked it before" category, as it's always been assumed that if you change the code, you change the accompanying documentation. > > > If not, who is responsible for these changes? > > > > People that notice problems. Either by sending a PR, or, if they're a > > committer themselves, taking it up with the last person to change that > > utility, confirming that it was an oversight, and fixing the problem. > > > Yes, that is what I had surmised. > Can I quote you on this? Certainly. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jul 1 19:42: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from vesuve.globetrotter.net (vesuve.globetrotter.net [142.169.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 616CC156EE for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 19:41:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from OutCast@SoftHome.net) Received: from SoftHome.net (ts1-11.f1007.quebectel.com [142.169.14.151]) by vesuve.globetrotter.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00816 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 22:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <377C275F.FF900C29@SoftHome.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 22:43:43 -0400 From: Future Seeker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: commercial emails Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Sorry to have to write this email but I checked receive FreeBSD related commercial email by accident when registering for the FreeBSD newsletter and I would like to undo my mistake. My email is OutCast@SoftHome.net, so if you can, please remove me from the commercial emails subscribers. If you are not the person I should be addressing, please tell me who it is. Thanks Fellow FreeBSD user. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jul 2 2:10:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0743314F42; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 02:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA50471; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:09:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:09:02 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Nik Clayton Cc: John Polstra , Nik Clayton , jdp@freebsd.org, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@freebsd.org, Jun Kuriyama , Motoyuki Konno Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation Message-ID: <19990702100902.A50235@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990625120831.H15628@lehman.com> <19990628212827.C5662@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990628212827.C5662@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 09:28:27PM +0100 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 09:28:27PM +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > I've just done this for you test out. The generated .tar.gz file is > huge (roughly 6 MB in size). Mine is but a puny modem, and I'd spend > ages uploading it. > > So, here are my notes on what I did, accompanied by a small shell script > that recreates the actions I did. None of the previous objectors have commented on this yet. Can I assume that those of you with an interest have run the script that was attached, and are happy with the results? N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jul 2 3:30: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB48151CF for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 03:30:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id DAA68797; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 03:30:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 32767) id 8F805151CF; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 03:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <19990702102934.8F805151CF@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 03:29:34 -0700 (PDT) From: thepinkpages@email.com To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0 Subject: docs/12486: listing of (56) utilities in /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin without whatis(1) information Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 12486 >Category: docs >Synopsis: listing of (56) utilities in /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin without whatis(1) information >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: medium >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Fri Jul 2 03:30:01 PDT 1999 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Jesus Monroy >Release: FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #0 >Organization: >Environment: FreeBSD vidi.mozie.com 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #0: Mon Jan 1 03:20:27 PST 1996 root@vidi.dnull.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/VIDI i386 >Description: ---------- /bin ---------- [: nothing appropriate ---------- /sbin ---------- dhclient: nothing appropriate dhclient-script: nothing appropriate fastboot: nothing appropriate fasthalt: nothing appropriate kget: nothing appropriate mount_ntfs: nothing appropriate rdump: nothing appropriate rrestore: nothing appropriate ---------- /usr/bin ---------- CC: nothing appropriate byacc: nothing appropriate c++filt: nothing appropriate captoinfo: nothing appropriate cc: nothing appropriate doscmd: nothing appropriate find2perl: nothing appropriate flex++: nothing appropriate gdbreplay: nothing appropriate gensetdefs: nothing appropriate gprof4: nothing appropriate gzcat: nothing appropriate hoststat: nothing appropriate lex: nothing appropriate lex++: nothing appropriate makeinfo: nothing appropriate miniperl: nothing appropriate mk_cmds: nothing appropriate nex: nothing appropriate nvi: nothing appropriate nview: nothing appropriate perl5.00502: nothing appropriate perl5.00503: nothing appropriate pod2latex: nothing appropriate pod2text: nothing appropriate ptx: nothing appropriate ree: nothing appropriate sendbug: nothing appropriate sockstat: nothing appropriate sperl5.00502: nothing appropriate sperl5.00503: nothing appropriate splain: nothing appropriate suidperl: nothing appropriate sum: nothing appropriate systags: nothing appropriate tic: nothing appropriate zegrep: nothing appropriate zfgrep: nothing appropriate ---------- /usr/sbin ---------- callbootd: nothing appropriate ctm_dequeue: nothing appropriate named-bootconf: nothing appropriate nsupdate: nothing appropriate pccardc: nothing appropriate pmap_dump: nothing appropriate pmap_set: nothing appropriate purgestat: nothing appropriate rpc.ypupdated: nothing appropriate >How-To-Repeat: #!/bin/sh # # written by Jesus Monroy, Jr. (thepinkpages@email.com # date: 1999.07.02 # purpose: validate that base utilities have whatis(1) entry # D="/bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin" for DIR in $D ; do cd $DIR echo ---------- echo $DIR echo ---------- L=`ls -1` for U in $L; do R=`whatis $U | grep "nothing"` if [ X"$R" != X"" ] ; then echo $R fi done done >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jul 2 3:56:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B351314DE2; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 03:56:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id DAA71002; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 03:56:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 03:56:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Message-Id: <199907021056.DAA71002@freefall.freebsd.org> To: mpp@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, mpp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/12486: listing of (56) utilities in /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin without whatis(1) information Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: listing of (56) utilities in /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin without whatis(1) information Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->mpp Responsible-Changed-By: mpp Responsible-Changed-When: Fri Jul 2 03:54:27 PDT 1999 Responsible-Changed-Why: I've already been looking into this, so I'll field this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jul 2 4:10: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C80714E9A for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 04:10:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id EAA74572; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 04:10:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 32767) id 3A5511519D; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 04:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <19990702110841.3A5511519D@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 04:08:41 -0700 (PDT) From: thepinkpages@email.com To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0 Subject: docs/12487: ambigous reference Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 12487 >Category: docs >Synopsis: ambigous reference >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: medium >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Fri Jul 2 04:10:00 PDT 1999 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Jesus Monroy >Release: 3.1 >Organization: >Environment: FreeBSD vidi.mozie.com 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #0: Mon Jan 1 03:20:27 PST 1996 root@vidi.dnull.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/VIDI i386 >Description: /bin/red manpage maps to ed(1), manpage makes no reference of the original utility. If /bin/red and /bin/ed are one and the same, why are they both there. >How-To-Repeat: man red >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jul 2 4:17:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF73C14C93; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 04:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id EAA75038; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 04:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 04:17:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Message-Id: <199907021117.EAA75038@freefall.freebsd.org> To: thepinkpages@email.com, mpp@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/12487: ambigous reference Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: ambigous reference State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: mpp State-Changed-When: Fri Jul 2 04:14:50 PDT 1999 State-Changed-Why: This is all tied up with the issued stated in PR docs/12486. Whatever the final resolution of the PR is will cover this case. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jul 2 11: 4:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FDF314C89 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:04:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from carey@roguewave.com) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id TAA26639; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by hub.FreeBSD.ORG, id smtpd026633; Fri Jul 2 19:08:15 1999 Received: by CVO1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:06:22 -0700 Message-ID: From: Woody Carey To: "'freebsd-doc@freebsd.org'" Subject: new FAQ: Where to find FreeBSD CD ISO images? Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:06:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all, I just sent a pr regarding the FAQ I wrote for inclusion in the freebsd website faq. If you want to take a look at my work, the file is available at ftp://adsl160.eugn.uswest.net/pub/freebsd-doc.tar.gz Please cc me on any replies or comments, I am not subscribed to -doc. Thanks, Woody To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jul 2 12: 9:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rmx11.iname.net (rmx11.iname.net [165.251.12.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E5B15739 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:09:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thepinkpages@email.com) Received: from www3.iname.net by rmx11.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.8.0) with ESMTP id PAA24431 From: thepinkpages@email.com Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www3.iname.net (8.9.1/8.9.2.Alpha2) id PAA16371; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:09:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: www3.iname.net: nobody set sender to thepinkpages@email.com using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9907021509464J.01548@www3.iname.net> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:09:46 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: des@flood.ping.uio.no Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/12486: listing of (56) utilities in /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin without whatis(1) information Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Your message unclear. Message follows. ======================================= To: thepinkpages@email.com Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/12486: listing of (56) utilities in /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin without whatis(1) information From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 02 Jul 1999 14:03:09 +0200 Lines: 30 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 thepinkpages@email.com writes: > dhclient: nothing appropriate > dhclient-script: nothing appropriate > fastboot: nothing appropriate > fasthalt: nothing appropriate > kget: nothing appropriate > mount_ntfs: nothing appropriate > rdump: nothing appropriate > rrestore: nothing appropriate des@flood ~% uname -a FreeBSD flood.ping.uio.no 3.2-STABLE FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE #0: Thu Jun 3 20:10:45 CEST 1999 des@flood.ping.uio.no:/usr/src/sys/compile/FLOOD i386 des@flood ~% whatis dhclient dhclient-script fastboot fasthalt kget mount_nfs rdump rrestore dhclient(8) - Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol Client dhclient-script(8) - DHCP client network configuration script dhclient.conf(5) - DHCP client configuration file dhclient.leases(5) - DHCP client lease database dhclient-script(8) - DHCP client network configuration script fastboot: nothing appropriate fasthalt: nothing appropriate kget(8) - print kernel change information mount_nfs(8) - mount nfs file systems rdump: nothing appropriate rrestore: nothing appropriate 'nuff said. ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jul 2 12:48: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rmx11.iname.net (rmx11.iname.net [165.251.12.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D14714BEA; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:47:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thepinkpages@email.com) Received: from www3.iname.net by rmx11.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.8.0) with ESMTP id PAA04643 From: thepinkpages@email.com Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www3.iname.net (8.9.1/8.9.2.Alpha2) id PAA24670; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:47:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: www3.iname.net: nobody set sender to thepinkpages@email.com using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <990702154757DZ.02520@www3.iname.net> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:47:57 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpp@FreeBSD.org Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Unclearness of Re: docs/12487: ambigous reference Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From the previous message you'll see that the reviewers(?) message was unclear. Further, this message is less clear. Apparently, the PR has changed states, as per the reviewer(?). However the response document is unclear, terse and confusing. Clearness can be accomplished by adding "Severity" information from that field. Additionally this information should be noted in the reponse with "State-Changed-Why" Terseness is address in the previous paragraph. With conviction we state that a pre-scribed answer should suffice; with the caveout that this does not cover all circumstances. Confusion could be removed by adding a Natural Language interface response system. That is to say, the current response is a techincal orthocratic response, which seems clear for accounting/regression testing purposes. However, an additional field reponding in a native (English, Japanese, Spanish, etc.) language would be preferable. Possible Solutions: Such a system would take all fields modified and convert the information into comprehensive and comprehendable statement that could be review by reviewer, thereby alliveating(sp?) the reviewer, comitter, fixer and reporter from miscommuncation because of a lack of information, or from miscommunication because of an inconsitent response. The caveout being that the system would be spending MORE time in policy and review than in human interaction, which is of benefit to the entire process. Cost: This type of system would demand a person familar with a G5 language or language of similar properties (ie, Prolog, Dylan, Smalltalk). Resource requirements are those consumed by the needed interface(s). Benefits have been stated. My involvement: As per above, the NL interface could be accomplished. I am willing to write, maintain and update such a program. This would include documentaion, web interfaces, database interface and components needed for minimal use. I prefer PROLOG. Your involvement: Should this seen a reasonable do-able thing. Policy review must be set down by someone other than myself. The aforementioned revisions to GNATS must be accomplished by someone other than myself. Lastly, this would be an opportunity to add other features. Your response appreciated. ======================================== From: mpp@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 04:17:30 -0700 (PDT) To: thepinkpages@email.com, mpp@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/12487: ambigous reference Synopsis: ambigous reference State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: mpp State-Changed-When: Fri Jul 2 04:14:50 PDT 1999 State-Changed-Why: This is all tied up with the issued stated in PR docs/12486. Whatever the final resolution of the PR is will cover this case. ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Jul 2 16:43:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10AEE14D31; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA28504; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:42:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sji-ca44-84.ix.netcom.com(209.111.212.212) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028457; Fri Jul 2 18:41:50 1999 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.hip.berkeley.edu (8.9.3/8.6.9) id QAA78550; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907022341.QAA78550@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: silvia.hip.berkeley.edu: asami set sender to asami@cs.berkeley.edu using -f To: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk Cc: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, jdp@polstra.com, nclayton@lehman.com, jdp@freebsd.org, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@freebsd.org, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp In-reply-to: <19990702100902.A50235@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> (message from Nik Clayton on Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:09:02 +0100) Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation From: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) References: <19990625120831.H15628@lehman.com> <19990628212827.C5662@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <19990702100902.A50235@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * From: Nik Clayton * None of the previous objectors have commented on this yet. Can I assume * that those of you with an interest have run the script that was attached, * and are happy with the results? I haven't had the time to actually run it. *Speaking for myself*, assuming you agreed in this mail to let the Japanese people choose the installation directory and symlink names of Japanese documents, I'm cool. === Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:55:37 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami Cc: nclayton@lehman.com, motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 05:04:36AM -0700, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami wrote: : > We have no problem with having a framework to let people choose. > We're just saying that we would like to choose a default that makes > sense to most Japanese systems and have people with special > requirements (such as the ones you mentioned above) change it by > themselves. OK. N === As for the changes themselves, here are some minor comments I have after glancing over your comments. * 2.4 Leave the FAQ alone. When it is converted to DocBook (my next task * after this) it will be placed in the books/ directory. But we can do * this without needing to do repository copies. You can do anything without repository copies. :) But I think it's better to start with a copied version (even if it's just to overwrite it whole) so we won't lose history. * 4. Fix the Japanese hierarchy * * 4.1 Use the new scheme for ja * * % cp -rp ja ja_JP.eucJP What about the tags? I haven't seen the reply to my mail suggesting we keep the tags here and remove them from the original (to be moved to Attic) versions. Now that I think about it, maybe it's better if we leave dead in the Attic and just rename tags here. What do you think about changing the tags from "release_X_Y_Z" to "RELEASE_X_Y_Z"? This should be a simple sed job on the ,v files. * 6.1 Use the new scheme for zh * * % cp -rp zh zh_TW.Big5 Did I mention that there are actually a few slightly different "Big5"s out there? There are at least two major versions, one from Taiwan and one from Hong Kong. You may want to check with your Chinese friends if they are really happy with that name. To quote from the mule info page: === File: mule, Node: Big5, Prev: ISO2022 restriction, Up: Coding-system Special treatment of Big5 ========================= As far as I know, there's several different codes called Big5. The most famous ones are Big5-ETen and Big5-HKU-form2. Since both of them use a code range 0xa140 - 0xfefe (in each row, columns (second byte) 0x7f - 0xa0 is skipped) and number of characters is more than 13000, it's impossible to treat each of them as a single character-set in the current Mule system. So, Mule treat them in a quite irregular manner as described below: 1. Mule does not treats them as a different character set, but as the same character set called Big5. Caution!! Big5 is a different character set from GB. 2. Mule divides Big5 into two sub-character-sets: 0xa140 - 0xc67e (Level 1) 0xc6a1 - 0xfefe (Level 2) and allocates two leading-chars lc-big5-1 and lc-big5-2 to them. (See character.txt) 3. Usually, each leading-char (or character-set) has unique character category. But lc-big5-1 and lc-big5-2 has the same character category of mnemonic 't'. So, regular expression "\\ct" matches any Big5 (Level 1 and Level 2) characters. (See syntax.txt) 4. If you specify ISO2022 type coding-system on output, Mule converts Big5 code using unofficial final-characters '0' (for Level 1) and ' 1' (for Level 2). 5. You can use either fonts of ETen or HKU for displaying Big5 code. Mule judges which font is used by examining existence of character whose code point is 0xC6A1. If it exists, the font is HKU, else the fonts is ETen. === Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 3: 1:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC5DF15030 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 03:01:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA48428; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:01:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: thepinkpages@email.com Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/12486: listing of (56) utilities in /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin without whatis(1) information References: <9907021509464J.01548@www3.iname.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 03 Jul 1999 12:01:33 +0200 In-Reply-To: thepinkpages@email.com's message of "Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:09:46 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org thepinkpages@email.com writes: > Your message unclear. Only because you choose not to understand it. The gist of my message is that you are full of bullshit, and that your PR is just as useless as your rants on -chat and -advocay. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 4:18:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28B1614E85 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:18:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.54.62]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAD2B17; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:18:04 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA62723; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:00:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:00:57 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Jesus Monroy Cc: chris@calldei.com, cjclark@home.com, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: what is the policy for builtin shell functions?]] Message-ID: <19990703130057.K61399@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990701100823.23255.qmail@.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <19990701100823.23255.qmail@.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Thu, Jul 01, 1999 at 03:08:23AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Jesus Monroy (jesus.monroy@usa.net) [990701 14:47]: > Cris you are living in a hole somewhere. > The sun will shine today. Please take things like this to -chat... -doc is used for discussion on improving the documentation, not personal attacks. [ Not that -chat is ok for personal attacks, but then it at least can get funny =) ] -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at it's best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 4:18:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3C814D4D; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:18:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.54.62]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAE2B17; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:18:04 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA62713; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:59:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:59:04 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Jesus Monroy Cc: wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org, nik@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Re: docs/10088: Documentation search results] Message-ID: <19990703125904.J61399@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990625113610.516.qmail@nwcst290.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <19990625113610.516.qmail@nwcst290.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 04:36:10AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Jesus Monroy (jesus.monroy@usa.net) [990625 17:46]: > wrote: > > Synopsis: Documentation search results > > > > State-Changed-From-To: open->closed > > State-Changed-By: nik > > State-Changed-When: Fri Jun 4 15:51:56 PDT 1999 > > State-Changed-Why: > > This request has been noted on the Projects page. > > Hopefully someone will be inclined to pick it up. > > > I'm willing to take a stab at it, but don't > expect to have time for it until mid-july. > If this is acceptable, point me in > the right direction. Try contacting the appropriate people and ask what they intended and what can/cannot be used/done? -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at it's best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 4:18:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79861513D; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:18:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.54.62]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAF2B17; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:18:06 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA62709; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:57:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:57:54 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Jesus Monroy Cc: nik@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, jkh@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Re: docs/11852: 3.X install requires 12MB of RAM, not 8] Message-ID: <19990703125754.I61399@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <19990625105100.18869.qmail@www0t.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <19990625105100.18869.qmail@www0t.netaddress.usa.net>; from Jesus Monroy on Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 03:51:00AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Please trim the [Re:]'s on this Jesus when replying ] * Jesus Monroy (jesus.monroy@usa.net) [990625 13:47]: > wrote: > > Synopsis: 3.X install requires 12MB of RAM, not 8 > > > > Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->jkh > > Responsible-Changed-By: nik > > Responsible-Changed-When: Fri May 28 16:46:15 PDT 1999 > > Responsible-Changed-Why: > > Installs are Jordan's area. I don't recall seeing the install > > requirements goup, but if he says that they have then this can > > be re-assign to freebsd-doc to be documented. > > > > > I don't see this. I've been able to run 486s with 8megs > of RAM and am willing to confirm this again. And you installed them using the 3.1 or 3.2 boot disks on 386/486 systems with 8 MB of RAM? -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at it's best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 4:20: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C03F14D4D for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:20:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id EAA62496; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:20:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 32767) id 19B4714D4D; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:13:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <19990703111330.19B4714D4D@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:13:30 -0700 (PDT) From: jmonroy@email.com To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0 Subject: docs/12493: listing of (33) utilities in /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin without man(1) information Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 12493 >Category: docs >Synopsis: listing of (33) utilities in /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin without man(1) information >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sat Jul 3 04:20:01 PDT 1999 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Jesus Monroy, Jr. >Release: 3.1-RELEASE >Organization: Digital Marshalls >Environment: FreeBSD vidi.mozie.com 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #0: Mon Jan 1 03:20:27 PST 1996 root@vidi.dnull.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/VIDI i386 >Description: ---------- /bin ---------- ---------- /sbin ---------- No manual entry for dhclient No manual entry for dhclient-script No manual entry for kget No manual entry for mount_ntfs ---------- /usr/bin ---------- No manual entry for CC No manual entry for c++filt No manual entry for doscmd No manual entry for find2perl No manual entry for gdbreplay No manual entry for gensetdefs No manual entry for gprof4 No manual entry for hoststat No manual entry for makeinfo No manual entry for miniperl No manual entry for mk_cmds No manual entry for perl5.00502 No manual entry for perl5.00503 No manual entry for pod2latex No manual entry for pod2text No manual entry for ptx No manual entry for sockstat No manual entry for sperl5.00502 No manual entry for sperl5.00503 No manual entry for splain No manual entry for suidperl No manual entry for systags ---------- /usr/sbin ---------- No manual entry for callbootd No manual entry for named-bootconf No manual entry for nsupdate No manual entry for pccardc No manual entry for pmap_dump No manual entry for purgestat No manual entry for rpc.ypupdated >How-To-Repeat: #!/bin/sh # # written by Jesus Monroy, Jr. (thepinkpages@email.com # date: 1999.07.03 # purpose: validate that base utilities have man(1) entry # D="/bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin" F="/usr/home/yourdirectoryhere/filename" for DIR in $D ; do echo ---------- >> $F echo $DIR >> $F echo ---------- >> $F cd $DIR L=`ls -1` for U in $L; do R=`whatis $U | grep "nothing"` if [ X"$R" != X"" ] ; then R2=`man $U 2> /dev/null` if [ $? -ne 0 ] ; then echo No manual entry for $U >> $F fi fi done done >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 4:50: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B52F814E05 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:50:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id EAA66343; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:50:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 32767) id 4D8DD14E35; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <19990703114345.4D8DD14E35@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:43:45 -0700 (PDT) From: jmonroy@email.com To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0 Subject: docs/12494: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 12494 >Category: docs >Synopsis: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sat Jul 3 04:50:01 PDT 1999 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Jesus Monroy >Release: 3.1-RELEASE >Organization: Digital Marshalls >Environment: FreeBSD vidi.mozie.com 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #0: Mon Jan 1 03:20:27 PST 1996 root@vidi.dnull.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/VIDI i386 >Description: Whatis(1) candidates for 23 of 56 entires in docs/12486. Any other questions? >How-To-Repeat: #!/bin/sh # # written by Jesus Monroy, Jr. (thepinkpages@email.com # date: 1999.07.02 # purpose: extract canidate for whatis(1) entry from manpage # D="/bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin" P="/usr/home/your-dir/perl-script-below" # for every list item; do for DIR in $D ; do cd $DIR echo ---------- echo $DIR echo ---------- L=`ls -1` # iterate over list for U in $L; do R=`whatis $U | grep "nothing"` # check for empty return string if [ X"$R" != X"" ] ; then R2=`man $U 2> /dev/null` # check exit status value if [ $? -eq 0 ] ; then echo -n "$U: " man $U | col -b | perl $P fi fi done done ################################################### # PERL PROGRAM - output requires cleaning ################################################### #!/usr/bin/perl while (<>) { if (/name/i) {$g++ ; next} chop; if ($g > 0 ) { print $_; print "\n"; $l++ } last if ($l > 1); } >Fix: ---------- /bin ---------- [: test - condition evaluation utility ---------- /sbin ---------- fastboot: reboot, halt - stopping and restarting the system fasthalt: reboot, halt - stopping and restarting the system rdump: dump - filesystem backup rrestore: restore - restore files or file systems from backups made with dump ---------- /usr/bin ---------- byacc: yacc - an LALR(1) parser generator captoinfo: tconv - convert between termcap, terminfo source and terminfo binary cc: gcc, g++ - GNU project C and C++ Compiler (v2.7) flex++: flex - fast lexical analyzer generator gzcat: gzip, gunzip, zcat - compress or expand files lex: flex - fast lexical analyzer generator lex++: flex - fast lexical analyzer generator nex: ex, vi, view - text editors nvi: ex, vi, view - text editors nview: ex, vi, view - text editors ree: ee - easy editor sendbug: send-pr - send problem report (PR) to a central support site sum: cksum - display file checksums and block counts tic: tconv - convert between termcap, terminfo source and terminfo binary zegrep: grep, egrep, fgrep, zgrep - print lines matching a pattern zfgrep: grep, egrep, fgrep, zgrep - print lines matching a pattern ---------- /usr/sbin ---------- ctm_dequeue: ctm_smail, ctm_rmail - send and receive ctm deltas via mail pmap_set: rpc - library routines for remote procedure calls >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 4:51:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rmx10.globecomm.net (rmx10.iname.net [165.251.12.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD2014E27 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmonroy@email.com) Received: from webc01.globecomm.net by rmx10.globecomm.net (8.9.1a/8.8.0) with ESMTP id HAA01629 From: jmonroy@email.com Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webc01.globecomm.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id HAA10764; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 07:49:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: webc01.globecomm.net: nobody set sender to jmonroy@email.com using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <990703074934H5.17030@webc01.globecomm.net> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 07:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: asmodai@wxs.nl Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Re: docs/10088: Documentation search results] Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't know where to start. Need a nudge in the right direction. Where can I find this perons name? * Jesus Monroy (jesus.monroy@usa.net) [990625 17:46]: > wrote: > > Synopsis: Documentation search results > > > > State-Changed-From-To: open->closed > > State-Changed-By: nik > > State-Changed-When: Fri Jun 4 15:51:56 PDT 1999 > > State-Changed-Why: > > This request has been noted on the Projects page. > > Hopefully someone will be inclined to pick it up. > > > I'm willing to take a stab at it, but don't > expect to have time for it until mid-july. > If this is acceptable, point me in > the right direction. Try contacting the appropriate people and ask what they intended and what can/cannot be used/done? -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at it's best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 5: 4:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rmx10.globecomm.net (rmx10.iname.net [165.251.12.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0CEF14E27 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:04:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmonroy@email.com) Received: from webc01.globecomm.net by rmx10.globecomm.net (8.9.1a/8.8.0) with ESMTP id IAA03270 From: jmonroy@email.com Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webc01.globecomm.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id IAA11312; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:02:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: webc01.globecomm.net: nobody set sender to jmonroy@email.com using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <990703080153G5.11117@webc01.globecomm.net> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:01:53 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: asmodai@wxs.nl Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: docs/11852: 3.X install requires 12MB of RAM, not 8 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Please trim the [Re:]'s on this Jesus when replying ] Subject better? :============================================= :* Jesus Monroy (jesus.monroy@usa.net) [990625 13:47]: :> wrote: :> > Synopsis: 3.X install requires 12MB of RAM, not 8 :> > :> > :> > :> I don't see this. I've been able to run 486s with 8megs :> of RAM and am willing to confirm this again. : :And you installed them using the 3.1 or 3.2 :boot disks on 386/486 systems :with 8 MB of RAM? Yes, I have 2-486 and 3-386 machines running on various setups. evidence is at: http://www.mozie.com/projects/buds/index.html I can do a dmesg, but not for another 24hours. ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 5: 6:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rmx10.globecomm.net (rmx10.iname.net [165.251.12.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE0C614E27 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:06:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmonroy@email.com) Received: from webc01.globecomm.net by rmx10.globecomm.net (8.9.1a/8.8.0) with ESMTP id IAA03480 From: jmonroy@email.com Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webc01.globecomm.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id IAA11471; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:04:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: webc01.globecomm.net: nobody set sender to jmonroy@email.com using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <990703080442HA.10842@webc01.globecomm.net> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: asmodai@wxs.nl Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: docs/11852: 3.X install requires 12MB of RAM, not 8 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Please trim the [Re:]'s on this Jesus when replying ] Subject better? :============================================= :* Jesus Monroy (jesus.monroy@usa.net) [990625 13:47]: :> wrote: :> > Synopsis: 3.X install requires 12MB of RAM, not 8 :> > :> > :> > :> I don't see this. I've been able to run 486s with 8megs :> of RAM and am willing to confirm this again. : :And you installed them using the 3.1 or 3.2 :boot disks on 386/486 systems :with 8 MB of RAM? Yes, I have 2-486 and 3-386 machines running on various setups. evidence is at: http://www.mozie.com/projects/buds/index.html I can do a dmesg, but not for another 24hours. ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 5: 7:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C81B14E27; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:07:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id FAA66872; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:07:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:07:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Message-Id: <199907031207.FAA66872@freefall.freebsd.org> To: jmonroy@email.com, mpp@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/12493: listing of (33) utilities in /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin without man(1) information Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: listing of (33) utilities in /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin without man(1) information State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: mpp State-Changed-When: Sat Jul 3 04:51:19 PDT 1999 State-Changed-Why: Pretty much a duplicate of docs/12486. In the future, if additional information has been found after the initial PR, reply to the verification message that GNATS sent you. That way the new info is recorded by GNATS, and no one has to review the new PR to determine if it is a new problem or just a re-hash of a previous PR. Now, I am already working on this, as I have stated in at least 2 (maybe 3) other e-mails, please do not submit any new problem reports about this. If you find other utilities that are without man pages, please refer back to PR docs/12486. In a perfect world, I would liek every binary in the standard search path to have a man page that shows up with "whatis" or "apropose", but I don't think that will haopen (perl being one of the major problems here). So until then, please just follow-ups to the orignal PR so I (or anyone else interested in the problem) can keep it all straight. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 5:11:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A908C14E27; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id FAA67046; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:11:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Message-Id: <199907031211.FAA67046@freefall.freebsd.org> To: jmonroy@email.com, mpp@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/12494: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: mpp State-Changed-When: Sat Jul 3 05:09:59 PDT 1999 State-Changed-Why: See my response to PR docs/12493. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 5:19:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rmx11.iname.net (rmx11.iname.net [165.251.12.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FADF14E27 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:19:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmonroy@email.com) Received: from webc01.globecomm.net by rmx11.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.8.0) with ESMTP id IAA00900 From: jmonroy@email.com Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webc01.globecomm.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id IAA12117; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:17:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: webc01.globecomm.net: nobody set sender to jmonroy@email.com using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <990703081747GF.11117@webc01.globecomm.net> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: asmodai@wxs.nl Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unclearness of Re: docs/12487: ambigous reference Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:53 PM 7/3/99 +0200, you wrote: >[ Either this is Jesus or another monkey having found send-pr all of a > sudden. > Funny side-affect: most people who know me from RL of IRC know I tend > to have a large amount of patience. But all this FreeBSD bashing from > Jesus and others without adding constructive comments about how to change > it is really making me tired. Now that's a first... [sic] ] > It's good to see you still have a sense of humor. Yes, it really is me. BTW, you should have three new PR. My hope is people can lighten up. As for bashing, I don't see that ending soon. Advocacy has a real attitude, however, at least, doc talks to people. Advoc talks at people. 'nuff politics. >* thepinkpages@email.com (thepinkpages@email.com) [990702 22:47]: >> From the previous message you'll see >> that the reviewers(?) message was unclear. > >mpp's message was perfectly clear to me. He said that pr 12486 is like the >one you submitted and whatever the outcome of that one, it will also cover >this one. > Sorry, to report, if this was clear I would have not asked. I am not asking to start shit, you'll know when I'm starting shit (after you know me a while); I asked precisely because I did not know. Further the last reponse, now posted on freebsd-doc indicates the reviewer does not intend to take the issue seriously. You'll see I have. The new PRs have scripts to reproduce the errors and reproduce the fixes. One of the problems is the the remapping/renaming of certain utilities. Although now I see the PRs have move. I need sleep as well, so if you don't mind I'll pick this up tommorrow. >> Further, this message is less clear. > >You are right, this message you wrote is less clear. > >> Apparently, the PR has changed states, >> as per the reviewer(?). However the >> response document is unclear, terse >> and confusing. > >The response is clear, precise and to point, not distracting from the issue >and whatever information needed to get the point across (too bad about the >typo though, but that's nitpicking). > >> Clearness can be accomplished by adding >> "Severity" information from that >> field. Additionally this information >> should be noted in the reponse with >> "State-Changed-Why" > >What good does adding the Severity subfield to the State-Changed-Why section >do? > >The send-pr/GNATS system was developed for people who cared to consult the >database so that they see what has been happening with the pr, and thus >Severity is also shown when one queries the pr. Adding Severity [again] to >the response only clutters the response with unrelated information which is >clearly available from the GNATS database. > >> Terseness is address in the previous >> paragraph. With conviction we state >> that a pre-scribed answer should >> suffice; with the caveout that this >> does not cover all circumstances. >> >> Confusion could be removed by >> adding a Natural Language interface >> response system. That is to say, >> the current response is a techincal >> orthocratic response, which seems >> clear for accounting/regression >> testing purposes. However, an additional >> field reponding in a native (English, >> Japanese, Spanish, etc.) language >> would be preferable. > >This is not the FreeBSD Helpdesk. Ask your questions on >questions@freebsd.org. This database is intended for technical content and >tracking of the problem with regard to the solution and fixes both sides >try to create resulting from the problem submitted. > >> Possible Solutions: >> Such a system would take all fields >> modified and convert the information >> into comprehensive and comprehendable >> statement that could be review by >> reviewer, thereby alliveating(sp?) >> the reviewer, comitter, fixer and >> reporter from miscommuncation because >> of a lack of information, >> or from miscommunication because of >> an inconsitent response. The caveout >> being that the system would be spending >> MORE time in policy and review than >> in human interaction, which is of >> benefit to the entire process. > >Would you care to rephrase the above as I do not see what you are getting at. >A very large amount of the pr's, I guess about 75%, gets evaluated correctly >without miscommunication whatsoever. About 20% gets solved right away. The >remaining 5% are either pilot errors, personal reminders, useless pr's and >other cruft gathered. > >> Cost: >> This type of system would demand a >> person familar with a G5 language >> or language of similar properties >> (ie, Prolog, Dylan, Smalltalk). >> Resource requirements are those >> consumed by the needed interface(s). > >A survey from my Tk-GNATS on my locally synched freefall GNATS database >shows that of the roughly 12700 pr's less than 1% is submitted erroneously. >Clearly you are the first to state having problem with the system. This >tends to make me think you just don't understand what it is for and how it >is used. I kindly point you to the GNATS documentation which IIRC currently >resides on sourceware.cygnus.com. > >Adding unnecessary bloat of using a G5 language into a tool designed for >the tracking of problems submitted against a codebase is IMHO utter bollocks. > >> Benefits have been stated. > >I don't see any benefits from the above statements. Feel free to make more >concise and clear statements and not some half thought out idea without >proper consulting the available pr systems documentation out there. > >> My involvement: >> As per above, the NL interface >> could be accomplished. I am willing >> to write, maintain and update such >> a program. This would include documentaion, >> web interfaces, database interface and >> components needed for minimal use. >> I prefer PROLOG. > >Documentation, web interfaces, database interfaces and components already >exist, meet expectations or are in the prospect of being rewritten for new >workflow systems tuned to BSD development models. I once again note that the >pr system is NOT (that is NOT) intended for question related submissions. > >> Your involvement: >> Should this seen a reasonable do-able >> thing. Policy review must be set >> down by someone other than myself. >> The aforementioned revisions to >> GNATS must be accomplished by someone >> other than myself. > >Policy has indicated that GNATS is sufficient for current use. Work is >underway to construct replacement programs. > >> Lastly, this would be an opportunity >> to add other features. Your response >> appreciated. > >With this my response, which is not the official status of the Project, but >merely my rather intense involvement using the system and being aware of >other likewise systems and their documentation. > ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 5:30: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC75E14EB7 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:30:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id FAA67687; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:30:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 05:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907031230.FAA67687@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Mike Pritchard Subject: Re: docs/12494: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 Reply-To: Mike Pritchard Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/12494; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Mike Pritchard To: jmonroy@email.com Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/12494: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 07:27:07 -0500 (CDT) > >Synopsis: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 > /usr/sbin > ---------- > ctm_dequeue: ctm_smail, ctm_rmail - send and receive ctm deltas via mail And if you are going to keep submitting PRs like this, please keep track of the cvs-commit mail. I've already fixed some of the cases you mentioned in your original PR, ctm_dequeue being one of them. That was fixed a week ago. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@FreeBSD.ORG or mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 6:18:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mpp.pro-ns.net (mpp.pro-ns.net [208.200.182.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDAEE14D12 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 06:18:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.pro-ns.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06230; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:18:03 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mpp) From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199907031318.IAA06230@mpp.pro-ns.net> Subject: Re: Unclearness of Re: docs/12487: ambigous reference In-Reply-To: <990703081747GF.11117@webc01.globecomm.net> from "jmonroy@email.com" at "Jul 3, 1999 08:17:47 am" To: jmonroy@email.com Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:18:03 -0500 (CDT) Cc: asmodai@wxs.nl, doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > ... > >* thepinkpages@email.com (thepinkpages@email.com) [990702 22:47]: > >> From the previous message you'll see > >> that the reviewers(?) message was unclear. > > > >mpp's message was perfectly clear to me. He said that pr 12486 is like the > >one you submitted and whatever the outcome of that one, it will also cover > >this one. (thanks whoever you are for your support, somehow I never saw your original reply, just this follow-up that I'm replying to -Mike) I didn't reply to this the first time around, but now I feel I have to... I apologize in advance for anything I say in this message, I've been in a bad mood since I saw my girlfriend off to another city a few days ago... The specific case(s) that was/were mentioned in the PR I closed x also mentioned in PR 12486. It was a duplicate PR. Plain and simple. > Sorry, to report, if this was clear I > would have not asked. I am not asking to > start shit, you'll know when I'm starting > shit (after you know me a while); I asked > precisely because I did not know. > > Further the last reponse, now posted > on freebsd-doc indicates the reviewer > does not intend to take the issue > seriously. You'll see I have. > The new PRs have scripts to reproduce > the errors and reproduce the fixes. I take all on-line documentation problems seriously. I've already fixed some of the problems even before they entered the bug tracking system. I started looking into this when Jesus originally sent a message to the freebsd-doc mailing list. I fixed some of the easy problems right away, and I'm still working on the hard cases. > One of the problems is the the > remapping/renaming of certain utilities. Those are the hard cases :-( > Although now I see the PRs have move. > I need sleep as well, so if you don't > mind I'll pick this up tommorrow. > > >> Further, this message is less clear. > > > >You are right, this message you wrote is less clear. > > > >> Apparently, the PR has changed states, > >> as per the reviewer(?). However the > >> response document is unclear, terse > >> and confusing. > > > >The response is clear, precise and to point, not distracting from the issue > >and whatever information needed to get the point across (too bad about the > >typo though, but that's nitpicking). I agree. I always try to be clear and to the point on these type of messages. I also noticed the typo, but GNATS doesn't let you enter an editor to fix it up :-(. I was thinking nobody would notice. Busted.... -- Mike Pritchard mpp@FreeBSD.ORG or mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 11:58:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from ns11.rim.or.jp (ns11.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0712214DD2; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 11:58:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp) Received: from rayearth.rim.or.jp (rayearth.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.242]) by ns11.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-ns11/RIMNET-2) with ESMTP id DAA29491; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 03:57:51 +0900 (JST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by rayearth.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.5Wpl2-uucp1/RIMNET) with UUCP id DAA15607; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 03:57:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (localhost.snipe.rim.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by rei.snipe.rim.or.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id DAA12044; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 03:47:52 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199907031847.DAA12044@rei.snipe.rim.or.jp> To: Nik Clayton Cc: John Polstra , Nik Clayton , jdp@freebsd.org, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@freebsd.org, Jun Kuriyama , Motoyuki Konno Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation X-Mailer: mh-e on Mule 2.3 / Emacs 19.34.1 References: <19990625120831.H15628@lehman.com> <19990628212827.C5662@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <19990702100902.A50235@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 03:47:51 +0900 From: Motoyuki Konno Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Nik Clayton wrote: > > I've just done this for you test out. The generated .tar.gz file is > > huge (roughly 6 MB in size). Mine is but a puny modem, and I'd spend > > ages uploading it. > > > > So, here are my notes on what I did, accompanied by a small shell script > > that recreates the actions I did. > > > > None of the previous objectors have commented on this yet. Can I assume > that those of you with an interest have run the script that was attached, > and are happy with the results? Your note (in <19990628212827.C5662@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>) includes your plan for the CVS repository copy ONLY. Please show me your final plan for the following things. 1. Install directory problem In your mail <19990628205537.B5662@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>, > > We have no problem with having a framework to let people choose. > > We're just saying that we would like to choose a default that makes > > sense to most Japanese systems and have people with special > > requirements (such as the ones you mentioned above) change it by > > themselves. > > OK. I understood this ("OK") means the default install directory of documents will not move. Is this right? o The default install directory is [lang] ('ja' for Japanese). o Make a symlink [lang]_[territory].[encoding] ('ja_JP.eucJP' for Japanese). # ln -s ja ja_JP.eucJP 2. URLs of Web. Do you want to re-organize the URLs of Web pages ? I object a URL change because there are so many web pages which have a link to FreeBSD web. Current URLs: English : http://www.freebsd.org/ Japanese : http://www.freebsd.org/ja/ Spanish : http://www.freebsd.org/es/ Chinese Taiwan : http://www.freebsd.org/zh/ Russian : http://www.freebsd.org/ru/ Handbook : http://www.freebsd.org/[lang]/handbook/ FAQ : http://www.freebsd.org/[lang]/FAQ/ Tutorials : http://www.freebsd.org/[lang]/tutorials/ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Motoyuki Konno mkonno@res.yamanashi-med.ac.jp (Univ) motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp (Home) motoyuki@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Project) Yamanashi Medical University http://www.freebsd.org/~motoyuki/ (WWW) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 13:17:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rmx10.globecomm.net (rmx10.iname.net [165.251.12.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B5B150C6; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:16:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmonroy@email.com) Received: from webc01.globecomm.net by rmx10.globecomm.net (8.9.1a/8.8.0) with ESMTP id QAA20461 From: jmonroy@email.com Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webc01.globecomm.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id QAA19513; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 16:14:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: webc01.globecomm.net: nobody set sender to jmonroy@email.com using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9907031614086C.14341@webc01.globecomm.net> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 16:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpp@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/12494: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You'll please excuse my tone, as I do not put up with. Please note anything written below is NO WAY intended to be sarcastic, although one could interpet(sp?) it that way. First let's be clear were I stand. I love FreeBSD. I not going anywhere. I'm taxed with the time I do put in. This is a holiday weekend. Second, the PR was send as a request by many "to PR and fix when you can". That is plainly stated in the Handbook. The Handbook also approximately states, "we know you don't have time for everything, this is a volunteer effort, do what you can." Third, I started this process 42 hours ago. I do not follow CVS. I have no interest in CVS; don't expect me to follow CVS either. Also from what little I've read, there is nothing that states one must follow CVS along with DOCS. Fourth, the information sent in was to synchornize and update docs/12486 for 3.1 as it shipped. That is, this information updates docs/12486 not anyone else. Fifth, the information you see was produced by the attached script. If you'll note, the script has no intelligence regarding your actions. If'd you like, I'll build some artifical intelligence thing to track your posts. I'm not going to waste my personal time tracking posts. (BTW, am serious on this AI thing.) 6th, if you fixed, Awesome. I have one more thing to talk about at the install-a-than. And I'm serious. Lastly, if all you want me to do is report. Fine I have no problem with what anyone wants. Just tell me. ========================================== From: Mike Pritchard Subject: Re: docs/12494: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 To: jmonroy@email.com Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 07:27:07 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] > >Synopsis: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 > /usr/sbin > ---------- > ctm_dequeue: ctm_smail, ctm_rmail - send and receive ctm deltas via mail And if you are going to keep submitting PRs like this, please keep track of the cvs-commit mail. I've already fixed some of the cases you mentioned in your original PR, ctm_dequeue being one of them. That was fixed a week ago. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@FreeBSD.ORG or mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 13:19:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rmx10.globecomm.net (rmx10.iname.net [165.251.12.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A0515227; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:18:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmonroy@email.com) Received: from webc01.globecomm.net by rmx10.globecomm.net (8.9.1a/8.8.0) with ESMTP id QAA20935 From: jmonroy@email.com Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webc01.globecomm.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id QAA19729; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 16:16:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: webc01.globecomm.net: nobody set sender to jmonroy@email.com using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9907031616409M.03480@webc01.globecomm.net> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 16:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mpp@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/12494: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've read a note that follows, I am ignoring this one all together. ========================================== From: Mike Pritchard Subject: Re: docs/12494: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 To: jmonroy@email.com Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 07:27:07 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] > >Synopsis: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 > /usr/sbin > ---------- > ctm_dequeue: ctm_smail, ctm_rmail - send and receive ctm deltas via mail And if you are going to keep submitting PRs like this, please keep track of the cvs-commit mail. I've already fixed some of the cases you mentioned in your original PR, ctm_dequeue being one of them. That was fixed a week ago. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@FreeBSD.ORG or mpp@mpp.pro-ns.net ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 13:36:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7889E1517E; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:36:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA48846; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: jmonroy@email.com Cc: mpp@FreeBSD.ORG, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/12494: (23) canidate whatis(1) entries for docs/12486 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Jul 1999 16:16:40 EDT." <9907031616409M.03480@webc01.globecomm.net> Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 13:35:26 -0700 Message-ID: <48842.931034126@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I've read a note that follows, > I am ignoring this one all together. Is this meant to accomplish anything? I thought you were giving us all a 7 day rest on your own and a 30 day rest on top of that after I told you to stop kicking up shit. Must I add email.com to the spam filter as well? I've got no problem whatsoever in doing so since I see no sign whatsoever that Jesus is being in any way helpful here and plenty of signs that he's merely stirring up a lot of dust and making noise to no good effect. Jesus, take a vacation. Take it now or be sent on vacation whether you like it or not, and I'm not even going to debate this with you any further. The next message from me you'll see will be the one explaining to you that no further postings from Jesus Monroy, Jr will be welcomed at freebsd.org and that we never want to hear from you again, so spare me from having to send that message by just taking a break on your own. Thank you. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Jul 3 15:51:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from npcollege-edu.net (mail.npcollege-edu.net [209.232.226.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1876015201; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from workshop@npcollege-edu.net) From: Subject: Re: Deleting Your Address. Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:26:37 Message-Id: <653.544817.219995@npcollege-edu.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From:The SFSE(Scientific Facts Search Engine). When you send an email to EDU,R&D,or Job sites,your email might be forwarded via the SFSE to find the info you are looking for. The NU(NewAmerica University)has received a copy of your email,but the date is Feb/24/99.Do you still need this info? To refresh your memory you can go again to the NU website and look for these topics: "The Redeemat has solved all environmental problems"-"The 9% Producer Fee would eliminate crime & taxes within 3 years"-"The free NHRI (National Health & Retirement Insurance")- "The job guarantee(JIC/Job Insurance Corporation)" and "The list of 22nd Centurys' products & businesses available right now". Otherwise,please allow us to DELETE your address by simply clicking REPLY. Or,request for the records of the SFSE search by putting in the subject REQUESTING INFO and click REPLY. B.Morrison workshop@npcollege-edu.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message