From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 2:42:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B00414E89 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 02:42:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA71386; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:44:42 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:44:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: David Dawes Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: !! Emergency !! Help FreeBSD 3.0 with IBM Netfinity 5000 In-Reply-To: <19990321132356.M11159@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, David Dawes wrote: > On Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 11:42:11AM +0800, hawkkuan@tw.ibm.com wrote: > > > Recenlty IBM Taiwan had a large project to prompt FreeBSD in Taiwan > >elementary > >school. We use 600 sets IBM Netfinity 5000 server in this project. > > > > We had some problems with IBM Netfinity 5000 with FreeBSD, The most > >important > >is that there is 2 set of PCI bridge of Netfinity 5000. When I installed > >the netfinity 5000 and > >use "dmesg" command. System can regonized all chip set on mainboard, > >include 2 PCI bridge > >chip set and 1 PCI-ISA bridge. > > > >==== IBM Netfinity 5000 Bus Architecture ==== > > > > PCI bus 0 connected with on board AIC-7895, S3 Video chip & AMD > >79cXXX NIC and > >only "1" free PCI slot. > > > > PCI bus 1 connected with 4 PCI slots , 2 of them are PCI/ISA share > >slot. > > > >====== The most problems we meet ====== > > > > > > All adaptor (we try Intel Ether express pro) only can be regonized on > >PCI bus 0 , but > >no matter what we have tried, we can't install any adaptor on PCI bus 1 > >slots!! > > >Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > >chip0: rev 0x04 on pci0.0.0 > >chip1: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.1 > > I guess the problem is multiple host-PCI bridges. This is something we > need to deal with at XFree86 too. Is it correct that there is no > generic way of handling these? The way the existing pci code handles this is to probe the bridge for its maximum bus number and make sure that every bus number in the range is probed. It requires knowledge of each type of bridge to get this right. To fix this we need documentation of the configuration registers of the bridges in this machine. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 6:50:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332AE15164 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 06:50:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from workstation.etinc.com (port46.netsvr1.cst.vastnet.net [207.252.73.46]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA15387; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:49:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903211449.JAA15387@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:01:20 -0500 To: Matthew Dillon From: Dennis Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet revisited Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199903210730.XAA09427@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199903210718.CAA08119@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:30 PM 3/20/99 -0800, you wrote: >:So, how long after the process is marked runable does the scheduler >:actually transfer control to the process so that it can handle the >:received data? Can the process be prevented from running if there are >:too many interrupts from the NIC? Is there some way to make the scheduler >:run the process more often (I tried using nice -20 on the receving >:instance of ttcp; that didn't seem to make a difference)? Has anybody >:else actually tried to receive data at 600 to 800Mbps speeds on FreeBSD >:and done it reliably? (Note: I mean actually transmitting UDP packets at, >:say 80MB/sec and actually receiving _all_ of the transmitted packets on >:the other side, in the application, at the same speed. No fudging.) >:Transmit speed doesn't seem to be an issue here, but somehow I get the >:feeling that the kernel is sabotaging itself on receive. >: >:-Bill > > You need to do the test I suggested sinking the packets into the > bit bucket with ipfw. I'd sink them before that. Drop them directly from the ring. while (next_ring_entry_filled) clear_entry(); You should be able to process as many packets as you can throw at it. The send_socket overhead is higher then the latency of processing one ring entry (or it should be) so I've noticed that the sending machine maxes out before the receiver. Unless the overhead for the card's controller is high, in which case you're in trouble. The most I've done with freebsd is ~52,000pps on a 200Mhz box... 66Mb/s throughput, but thats also as high as I've tried. The CPU doesnt even blink. Don't beat me up for this but you can send a LOT more packets from a Linux 2.2 box then you can from a FreeBSD one. One of the problems with using TCPs or UDPs TO the box is that processing the protocols use a lot of resources that normal routers dont have...so you are not getting a true indication of the forwarding capability, which is what I assume you want. Also, you need to test THROUGH the box because DMA contention is where you will find the biggest bottleneck. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 8:50:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C65114F6B for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:50:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA52658; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:50:30 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma052656; Sun, 21 Mar 99 10:50:12 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA80890; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:49:54 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199903211649.KAA80890@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: References: Subject: Re: GNOME Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: Alex Zepeda Cc: Dan Moschuk , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:49:54 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20 March 1999 at 22:15, Alex Zepeda wrote: > Perhaps I picked some bad ports, gmc and balsa. Ah, I see. We were talking about two different things ... you were referring to GNOME-using ports, while I was referring to the GNOME ports proper (all the things that ports/x11/gnome builds and installs). > gmc needed a little > tweaking (of the patches?!) to get itself built, and works as well as > expcted (it doesn't). Balsa OTOH wouldn't even compile. It seems to be > wanting version 0.4.9?!? the latest version available from www.balsa.net > was 0.4.6.2... even after telling it to depend on Gtk+ 1.2 it wouldn't > build. I'm not quite sure what the maintainer was thinking here. I'll have a look at these when I get a chance, if the maintainer doesn't first. Thanks! Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 8:55:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9304514EAB for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:55:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA52669; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:55:00 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma052661; Sun, 21 Mar 99 10:54:53 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA81048; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:54:35 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199903211654.KAA81048@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: References: Subject: Re: GNOME Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: patl@phoenix.volant.org Cc: Jacques Vidrine , Dan Moschuk , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:54:35 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20 March 1999 at 22:33, patl@phoenix.volant.org wrote: > The problem is that the ports aren't making changes that are visible > to the dependancy tests. In which case we have to fix the dependency test. For example, imlib is now built with GTK 1.2. If one has a port that depends upon imlib, ideally it should be rebuilt even though imlib's interface did not change. To force this to happen, we bumped the imlib library number. > In some cases it is because a port is changing > rapidly enough that it doesn't make sense to bump up a library version > number; but in others, the test is for the existance of a file whose > name is not expected to change across versions. In general, the updated > versions are expected to be backwards compatible. But when they contain > significant bug fixes, failing to update them can make the higher-level > ports look flakey. > > These aren't easy things to fix because it isn't at all obvious what the > right fix is. I know. But just because it isn't easy doesn't mean we can't try. With 2,141 ports, it is very easy for any particular port to get neglected. So bug reports on these things are important, as is nag mail to the maintainers. That said, when I have trouble building a port, the first thing I do is manually check the dependencies and consider rebuilding them. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 9: 6:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F077A14C3B for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:06:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA22264; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:06:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:06:28 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Calculation of load average and CCPU_SHIFT In-Reply-To: <199903201819.TAA02543@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 20 Mar 1999, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > I am looking into the source code in file vm_meter.c and kern_synch.c of > > FreeBSD 2.2.8. They use integer multiplication and shift operation to > > replace the costly float multiplication. The FSCALE and FSHIFT are for > > it is not only costly (actually, on modern CPUs it is not costly at > all!), FPU usage is not allowed in the kernel. > I have never heard of this. Can you explain a little bit more on why FPU usage is not allowed in the kernel or give me pointers where I can find more information on this topic? For the rest of my original question, I guess that it uses "fixed-point arithmetic". Thanks a lot. -Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 9:14:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailhub.psn.ie (mailhub.psn.ie [194.106.150.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD77D14EAB for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:14:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ad@psn.ie) Received: from vmunix.psn.ie ([194.106.150.252]) by mailhub.psn.ie with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 10OlnR-0002K5-00; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:13:57 +0000 Received: from localhost.psn.ie ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost) by vmunix.psn.ie with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10OloT-00004f-00; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:15:01 +0000 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:15:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy Doran To: zhihuizhang Cc: Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Calculation of load average and CCPU_SHIFT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have never heard of this. Can you explain a little bit more on why FPU > usage is not allowed in the kernel or give me pointers where I can find > more information on this topic? If you use FP code in the kernel that means that you then have to save the FPU context (registers etc.) and reload then again when you return from a syscall, or switch to another process. This is costly. Also, there's no guarentee that the machine has an FPU, so using fixed-point is basically the only way to go, since the emulation overhead is gross. Andy. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 10: 4:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C5514D1E for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:04:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11457; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:00:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd011441; Sun Mar 21 12:00:34 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11607; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:04:08 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903211804.LAA11607@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:04:08 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, wes@softweyr.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903141920.LAA93395@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Mar 14, 99 11:20:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You can always do a card-to-card transfer, but since most modern network > cards do *NOT* have on-card memory doing a card-to-card transfer typically > doesn't work. You mean "most recent network cards". Modern networks cards have memory that can be DMA'ed into by other modern network cards. Moral: being of later manufacture makes you more recent, but being capable of data higher rates is what makes you modern. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 10:24:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF9014D8D for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:24:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25350; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:24:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd025329; Sun Mar 21 11:24:32 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA13217; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:24:31 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903211824.LAA13217@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? To: des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:24:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, rsnow@lgc.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" at Mar 17, 99 02:21:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > AFAIK "zero copy tcp/ip" went into 3.1 and 4.0. Thanks to David > > Greenman who implemented and tested this on ftp.cdrom.com. > > (I hope I got the credits right ;-) > > No, that's only zero-copy transmission of files over stream sockets. OK, I'm real curious. How does this work? The lowest possible number of copiees I can consider is 1. This assumes a DMA from the disk controller into the ethernet card memory, and a cache-line unaligned one, at that, since the host would have to pre-supply the packet header. The next lowest number would be two, where the copy is into main memory by the disk controller, and then back out to the ethernet controller after packet assembly. You could optimize this a bit by clever use of page and page boundary mapping to back the data up against a page that contained 4k - header size pad bytes, and followed by the header data for the packet in the next page. Unless you were really clever with the paging hardware, this would mean a minumum packet size of 4k, or that you only got two copies on a page aligned buffer start. FWIW, I'm pretty sure that the cleverest you can get with x86 paging hardware is 64b chunks * number of chunks + header size for an MTU. Another common trick (that FreeBSD doesn't need because of the unified VM and buffer cache) is to allow an MBUF to reference a buffer cache page instead of having to copy into it. Again, you have to have offset/length pair encoding for the region, which may result in cache line misses, unless you are careful with the byte alignment in the MTU, not including the header. But even then, there is a copy on packet assembly into the ethernet interface. Having actually played this tricks on VAX hardware myself, I suspect that what you really meant to say was "zero unnecessary copies", not "zero copy", right? If so, I'm betting that there is at least one unnecessary copy, perhaps more, still in there. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 10:28:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-4.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43DEE14C3B for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:28:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01087; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:28:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:28:03 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Jacques Vidrine Cc: Dan Moschuk , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GNOME In-Reply-To: <199903211649.KAA80890@spawn.nectar.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > On 20 March 1999 at 22:15, Alex Zepeda wrote: > > Perhaps I picked some bad ports, gmc and balsa. > > Ah, I see. We were talking about two different things ... you > were referring to GNOME-using ports, while I was referring to the > GNOME ports proper (all the things that ports/x11/gnome builds > and installs). Well I had some interesting fun with those, but as long as you don't run a make clean in a few of those Gnome ports (sound and libs I think), you'll be fine. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 10:35:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27BF814C3B for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:35:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA13904; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:35:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:35:14 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903211835.KAA13904@apollo.backplane.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, wes@softweyr.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? References: <199903211804.LAA11607@usr06.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :You mean "most recent network cards". Modern networks cards have memory :that can be DMA'ed into by other modern network cards. : :Moral: being of later manufacture makes you more recent, but being : capable of data higher rates is what makes you modern. : : Terry Lambert : terry@lambert.org It's a nice idea, but there are lots of problems with card-to-card DMA. If you have only two network ports in your system (note: I said ports, not cards), I suppose you could get away with it. Otherwise you need something significantly more sophisticated. The problem is that you hit one of the most common situations that occured in early routers: DMA blockages to one destination screwing over others. For example, say you have four network ports and you are receiving packets which must be distributed to the other ports. Lets say network port #1 receives packets A, B, C, D, and E. Packet A must be distributed to port #2, and packet's B-D must be distributed to port #3, and packet E must be distributed to port #4. What happens when the DMA to port #2 blocks due to a temporary overcommit of packets being sent to port #2? Or due to a collision/retry situation occuring on port #1? What happens is that the packets B-E stick around in port #1's input queue and don't get sent to ports 3 and 4 even if ports 3 and 4 are idle. Even worse, what happens to poor packet E which can't be sent to port 4 until all the mess from packets A-D are dealt with? Major latency occurs at best, packet loss occurs at worse. For each port in your system, you need a *minimum* per-port buffer size to handle the maximum latency you wish to allow times the number of ports in the router. If you have 4 1 Gigabit ports and wish to allow latencies of up to 20mS, each port would require 8 MBytes of buffer space and you *still* don't solve the problem that occurs if one port backs up, short of throwing away the packets destined to other ports even if the other ports are idle. Backups can also introduce additional latencies that are not the fault of the destination port. DEC Gigaswitch switches suffered from exactly this problem -- MAE-WEST had serious problems for several years, in fact, due to overcommits on a single port out of dozens. There are solutions to this sort of problem, but all such solutions require truely significant on-card buffer memory... 8 MBytes minimum with my example above. In order to handle card-to-card DMA, cards must be able to handle sophisticated DMA scheduling to prevent blockages from interfering with other cards. With the correct centralized scheduling, the amount of on-card buffer memory can be reduced somewhat. Though not by much. Industrial strength routers that implement cross bars or other high speed switch matrices have to solve the ripple-effect-blockage problem. It is not a trivial problem to solve. It *IS* a necessary problem to solve since direct card-card transfers are much more efficient then transfers to common shared-memory stores. It is *NOT* a problem that PC architectures can deal with well, though. It is definitely *NOT* a problem that PCI cards are usually able to deal with due to the lack of DMA channels and the lack of a system-wide scheduling protocol. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 10:36:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62BD151CC for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:36:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07739; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:36:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd007728; Sun Mar 21 11:36:13 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA14073; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:36:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903211836.LAA14073@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? To: des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:36:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" at Mar 19, 99 01:05:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > NFS continues, after many many years, to virtually lock up systems > > when the server goes away and anything on it is in the path. If you > > try to dismount it locks up also. > > That's a feature, and it can easily be turned off. > > "Users continue, after many years, to refuse to read documentation, > and blame their incompetence on the OS and its developers...." Making the thing fail with ESTALE on a server reboot is probably not as interesting to him as making the client recover from a server reboot. There was a recent posting on either -chat or -advocacy from an engineer at Apple working on Rhapsody (Mac Server X) using FreeBSD and NetBSD code. Apple has (apparently) corrected a lot of the NFS bogosity (amazing what you can do by ignoring the outside world and working within your own source tree), and the posting indicated a willingness (and a desire) to get these changes integrated back into FreeBSD. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 10:46:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9CB14D8D for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:46:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id MAA07901; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:45:56 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199903211845.MAA07901@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: <199903211836.LAA14073@usr06.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Mar 21, 1999 6:36:12 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:45:55 -0600 (CST) Cc: des@flood.ping.uio.no, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > NFS continues, after many many years, to virtually lock up systems > > > when the server goes away and anything on it is in the path. If you > > > try to dismount it locks up also. > > > > That's a feature, and it can easily be turned off. > > > > "Users continue, after many years, to refuse to read documentation, > > and blame their incompetence on the OS and its developers...." > > Making the thing fail with ESTALE on a server reboot is probably not > as interesting to him as making the client recover from a server > reboot. > There's also the cases where setting features like 'soft' and 'intr' can wedge the system completely. (For those that don't believe me, get 200-300 processes randomly reading/writing the nfs mount, all with 4-5 open files across it. Log in to the system on the console. Unplug the ethernet. If the system isn't completely locked up now, do a: cp /dev/zero /mnt/nfs/blah, then press ^C. You're really wedged now) The only thing that has worked for me, where in a client configuration like that that *will* recover from an nfs server reboot is setting '-d'. (Dumb Timer). It will essentially disable the timeout code, which is where half of FreeBSD's nfs problems are, i believe. Add to this the countless programs that don't see ESTALE as a fatal error, and you'll probably beat the nfs server to death when it comes back, making the problem worse. (Perhaps making the client cache that somehow, instead of doing a getattr across nfs every time, to just keep returning ESTALE?) Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 10:55: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46AA414C3B for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:55:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA49975; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:53:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199903211853.KAA49975@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dennis Cc: Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet revisited In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:01:20 EST." <199903211449.JAA15387@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:53:42 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The most I've done with freebsd is ~52,000pps on a 200Mhz box... > 66Mb/s throughput, but thats also as high as I've tried. The CPU > doesnt even blink. Don't beat me up for this but you can send a > LOT more packets from a Linux 2.2 box then you can from a > FreeBSD one. Why can linux process more packets than FreeBSD? Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 11: 8:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA38314E20 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:08:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05542; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:07:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd005527; Sun Mar 21 12:07:54 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA16206; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:07:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903211907.MAA16206@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:07:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, wes@softweyr.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903211835.KAA13904@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Mar 21, 99 10:35:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :You mean "most recent network cards". Modern networks cards have memory > :that can be DMA'ed into by other modern network cards. > : > :Moral: being of later manufacture makes you more recent, but being > : capable of data higher rates is what makes you modern. > > It's a nice idea, but there are lots of problems with card-to-card > DMA. If you have only two network ports in your system (note: I said > ports, not cards), I suppose you could get away with it. Otherwise you > need something significantly more sophisticated. > > The problem is that you hit one of the most common situations that occured > in early routers: DMA blockages to one destination screwing over others. > > For example, say you have four network ports and you are receiving packets > which must be distributed to the other ports. Lets say network port #1 > receives packets A, B, C, D, and E. Packet A must be distributed to > port #2, and packet's B-D must be distributed to port #3, and packet E > must be distributed to port #4. > > What happens when the DMA to port #2 blocks due to a temporary overcommit > of packets being sent to port #2? Or due to a collision/retry situation > occuring on port #1? What happens is that the packets B-E stick around > in port #1's input queue and don't get sent to ports 3 and 4 even if > ports 3 and 4 are idle. My argument would be that you should be looking at this as an IP switch level thing, on the order of a Kalpana Etherswitch, or whatever the modern Gigabit ethernet equivalent manufacturer par excellance du jour happens to be. Personally, I have no problem whatsoever doing the MAE-West trick of invoking the "leaky bucket" algorithm, most noticible when they bought only one, not two, gigaswitches, and failed to dedicate 50% of the ports to communication with other gigaswitches, which is what the Fibbonacci sequence would suggest is the correct mechanism for node expansion of that type of topology. > Even worse, what happens to poor packet E which can't be sent to port 4 > until all the mess from packets A-D are dealt with? Major latency occurs > at best, packet loss occurs at worse. The way to deal with the "mess" is to allow the origin to retransmit, instead of taking it upon yourself to ensure reliable end-to-end datagram delivery of IP datagrams. Why do it for IP if you aren't going to do it for UDP/IP? If you really have a problem with the idea that packets which collide should be dropped, well, then stop thinking IP and start thinking ATM instead (personnaly, I hate ATM, but if the tool fits...). > For each port in your system, you need a *minimum* per-port buffer size > to handle the maximum latency you wish to allow times the number of ports > in the router. If you have 4 1 Gigabit ports and wish to allow latencies > of up to 20mS, each port would require 8 MBytes of buffer space and you > *still* don't solve the problem that occurs if one port backs up, short > of throwing away the packets destined to other ports even if the other > ports are idle. Yes, that's true. This is the "minumum pool retention time" problem, which is the maximum allowable latency before a discard occurs. > Backups can also introduce additional latencies that are not the fault > of the destination port. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. > DEC Gigaswitch switches suffered from exactly this problem -- MAE-WEST > had serious problems for several years, in fact, due to overcommits on > a single port out of dozens. See above. This was a management budget driven topology error, having really nothing at all to do with the capabilities of the hardware. It was the fact that in a topology having more than one gigaswitch, each gigaswitch must dedicate 50% of its capability to talking to the other gigaswitches. This means you must increase the number of switches in a Fibbonacci sequence, not a linear additive sequence. Consider that if I have one gigaswitch, and all it's ports are in use, if I dedicate 50% of it's ports to inter-switch communication, and then add only one other switch where I do the same, then I end up with exactly the same number of ports. The MAE-West problem was that (much!) fewer than 50% of the ports on the two switches were dedicated to interconnect. For topologies of 5 or more switches, the number of ports which must be dedicated to direct interconnect goes up again... one progression is Fibbonacci, the other geometric; you have diminishing returns for the next X switches in the progression, but the returns are always positive; you merely have to pay progresively more for each node in the progression. The soloution to this is to have geographically seperate clusters of the things, and ensure that the interlinks between them are significantly faster than their interlinks to equipment that isn't them. > There are solutions to this sort of problem, but all such solutions > require truely significant on-card buffer memory... 8 MBytes minimum > with my example above. In order to handle card-to-card DMA, cards > must be able to handle sophisticated DMA scheduling to prevent > blockages from interfering with other cards. With respect, I think that you are barking up the wrong tree. If the latency is such that the pool retention time becomes infinite for any packet, then you are screwed, blued, and tatooed. You *must* never fill the pool faster than you can drain it... period. The retention time is dictated not by the traffic rate itself, but by the relative rate between the traffic and the rate at which you can make delivery decisions based on traffic content. Increasing the pool size can only compensate for a slow decision process, not resource overcommit by a budget-happy management. The laws of physics and mathematics bend to the will of no middle-manager. > Industrial strength routers that implement cross bars or other high > speed switch matrices have to solve the ripple-effect-blockage problem. > It is not a trivial problem to solve. It *IS* a necessary problem to > solve since direct card-card transfers are much more efficient then > transfers to common shared-memory stores. It seems to me that this is a wholly artificial problem based upon an unreasonable desire to overcommit resources, said desire resulting in an assymetry in the routing capability between supposed peers, such that the interaction of two peers can negatively impact a third. I blame this on the phone company's historical use of circuit switching technologies, and the baggage that comes with that mindset. Assymetry is bad. All of the memory in the world would not have fixed the MAE-West topology problem (well, OK, but only if they got the memory from the machines that were trying to send packets through MAE-West, such that they were incapable of generating traffic for lack of the memory needed to boot and run ;-)). > It is *NOT* a problem that PC architectures can deal with well, > though. On this, we heartily agree! > It is definitely *NOT* a problem that PCI cards are usually able > to deal with due to the lack of DMA channels and the lack of a > system-wide scheduling protocol. I still think that it's very interesting to ask "what's the absolute, total balls-to-the-wall best that such limited hardware can do?", not to mention fun. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 11:14:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8AD8914C3B for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA09025; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:20:52 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199903211920.OAA09025@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet revisited To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:20:51 -0500 (EST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199903210730.XAA09427@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Mar 20, 99 11:30:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2333 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Matthew Dillon had to walk into mine and say: > You need to do the test I suggested sinking the packets into the > bit bucket with ipfw. Considering that these machines are at work and I'm at home, I don't really want to take the chance of fat-fingering something like this and taking the machine off the net. I'll have to see if I can try this on Monday. Again, I already know the receiving NIC is getting the packets and that they're making it as far as udp_input(). > You also need to do a cpu loading test - graph the cpu utilization > as displayed by vmstat or 'systat -vm 1' verses the packet load, > both going into the bit bucket, or being read by a process. > > If there is any cpu available, runnable processes will run no matter > what the cpu load. Like I said earlier: the machine is very loaded with interrupts. According to systat -iostat, about 70% of the CPU is going to interrupts, 30% to system usage and almost nothing to 'user' usage. Again, this is with a UDP test. Now, in case I didn't make it clear, there is _NO_ other activity on the system: I am using sinkmode with ttcp, meaning that I am not reading files from the disk. There is no disk activity at all, only network activity (there's a tiny amount of activity on the xl0 interface too since that's where I'm logged in). On the transmit machine, most of the CPU is going to the system. With TCP, things look much different: systat -iostat shows the receiving machine 30% idle, with the rest of the CPU usage split fairly evenly between interrupt processing and the system. However there is still almost no 'user' activity. I can get 55MB/sec over TCP like this, which doesn't suck, but it should be better. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 11:16:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.volant.org (phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1242514E3A for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:16:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from patl@phoenix.volant.org) Received: from asimov.phoenix.volant.org ([205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org with smtp (Exim 1.92 #8) id 10OnhS-00007G-00; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:15:54 -0800 Received: from localhost by asimov.phoenix.volant.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA16088; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:15:48 -0800 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:15:48 -0800 (PST) From: patl@phoenix.volant.org Reply-To: patl@phoenix.volant.org Subject: Re: GNOME To: Alex Zepeda Cc: Jacques Vidrine , Dan Moschuk , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Perhaps I picked some bad ports, gmc and balsa. gmc needed a little > tweaking (of the patches?!) to get itself built, and works as well as > expcted (it doesn't). Balsa OTOH wouldn't even compile. It seems to be > wanting version 0.4.9?!? the latest version available from www.balsa.net > was 0.4.6.2... even after telling it to depend on Gtk+ 1.2 it wouldn't > build. I'm not quite sure what the maintainer was thinking here. The balsa.net Web site appears to be a bit out of date. I found the balsa 0.4.9 tarball in ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/distfiles/ It built and ran fine for me. -Pat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 11:43:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7334A14C1C for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:43:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA29279; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:48:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:48:27 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Terry Lambert Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , andreas@klemm.gtn.com, rsnow@lgc.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-Reply-To: <199903211824.LAA13217@usr06.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > AFAIK "zero copy tcp/ip" went into 3.1 and 4.0. Thanks to David > > > Greenman who implemented and tested this on ftp.cdrom.com. > > > (I hope I got the credits right ;-) > > > > No, that's only zero-copy transmission of files over stream sockets. > > OK, I'm real curious. > > How does this work? > > The lowest possible number of copiees I can consider is 1. This > assumes a DMA from the disk controller into the ethernet card > memory, and a cache-line unaligned one, at that, since the host > would have to pre-supply the packet header. That is zero copy, packet is DMA'd from card, then sent via DMA to another card, hence 0 copy. The CPU doesnt' have much work to do besides the DMA setups and a quick packet check, look at the fastforward code and you can see. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 11:51:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13C0914C3B for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:51:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA14338; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:51:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:51:28 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903211951.LAA14338@apollo.backplane.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, wes@softweyr.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? References: <199903211907.MAA16206@usr06.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :If you really have a problem with the idea that packets which collide :should be dropped, well, then stop thinking IP and start thinking ATM :instead (personnaly, I hate ATM, but if the tool fits...). Terry, this may sound great on paper, but nobody in their right mind drops a packet inside a router unless they absolutely have to. This lesson was learned long ago, and has only become more important now as the number of hops increase. There is no simple solution that doesn't have terrible boundry conditions on the load curve. :> of up to 20mS, each port would require 8 MBytes of buffer space and you :> *still* don't solve the problem that occurs if one port backs up, short :> of throwing away the packets destined to other ports even if the other :> ports are idle. : :Yes, that's true. This is the "minumum pool retention time" problem, :which is the maximum allowable latency before a discard occurs. No, it's worse then that. Supplying sufficient buffer space only partially solves the problem. If the buffer space is not properly scheduled, an overload on one port or even just the statistical possibility of packets being ordered to different destinations badly can result in a multiplication of the latency to other ports. Adding even more buffer space to try to brute-force a solution doesn't work well ( and is an extremely expensive proposition to boot )... which is why high-end router and switch makers spend a lot of time on scheduling. :See above. This was a management budget driven topology error, having :really nothing at all to do with the capabilities of the hardware. It :was the fact that in a topology having more than one gigaswitch, each :gigaswitch must dedicate 50% of its capability to talking to the other :gigaswitches. This means you must increase the number of switches in :a Fibbonacci sequence, not a linear additive sequence. It had nothing to do with any of that. I *LIVED* the crap at MAE-WEST because BEST had a T3 there and we had to deal with it every day, even though we were only using 5 MBits out of our 45 MBit T3. The problem was that a number of small 'backbones' were selling transit bandwidth at MAE-WEST and overcommitting their bandwidth. The moment any one of their ports exceeded 45 MBits, the Gigaswitch went poof due to head-of-queue blocking, a combination of software on the gigaswitch and the way the gigabit switch's hardware queues packets for transfer between cards. :Consider that if I have one gigaswitch, and all it's ports are in use, :if I dedicate 50% of it's ports to inter-switch communication, and :then add only one other switch where I do the same, then I end up :with exactly the same number of ports. : :The MAE-West problem was that (much!) fewer than 50% of the ports on :the two switches were dedicated to interconnect. The problem at MAE-WEST had absolutely nothing to do with this. The problem occured *inside* a *single* switch. If one port overloaded on that switch, all the ports started having problems due to head-of-line blocking. BEST had to pull peering with a number of overcommitted nodes for precisely this reason, but that didn't help nodes that were talking to us who *were* peering with the overcommitted nodes. The moment any of these unloaded nodes tried to send a packet to an overcommitted node, it blocked the head of the queue and created massive latencies for packets destined to other unloaded nodes. Eventually enough pressure was placed on the idiot backbones to clean up their act, but it took 2+ years for them to get to that point. :The soloution to this is to have geographically seperate clusters :of the things, and ensure that the interlinks between them are :significantly faster than their interlinks to equipment that isn't :them. The solution to this at MAE-WEST was to clamp down on the idiots who were selling transit at MAE-WEST and overcommitting their ports, plus numerous software upgrades none of which really solved the problem completely. :With respect, I think that you are barking up the wrong tree. If the :latency is such that the pool retention time becomes infinite for any :packet, then you are screwed, blued, and tatooed. You *must* never :fill the pool faster than you can drain it... period. The retention :time is dictated not by the traffic rate itself, but by the relative :rate between the traffic and the rate at which you can make delivery :decisions based on traffic content. 'you must never fill the pool faster then you can drain it' is a cop-out. In the best case scenario, that is exactly what happens. Unfortunately, the best case requires a level of sophistication and scheduling that only a few people have gotten right. Even Cisco has blown it numerous times. :Increasing the pool size can only compensate for a slow decision process, :not resource overcommit by a budget-happy management. The laws of physics :and mathematics bend to the will of no middle-manager. This is not a resource overcommit issue. This is a resource scheduling issue. You can always overcommit a resource -- the router must deal with that situation no matter what your topology. It is *HOW* you deal with the overcommit that matters. It is not possible to avoid a resource overcommit in a router or a switch because ports, even ports with the same physical speed, have mismatched loads. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 11:55:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F85A14C3B; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:55:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.219.124]) by Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02347; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:55:19 +0100 (MET) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.9.3/8.6.9) id UAA05269; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:58:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:58:21 +0100 From: Stefan Esser To: David Dawes Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Stefan Esser Subject: Re: !! Emergency !! Help FreeBSD 3.0 with IBM Netfinity 5000 Message-ID: <19990321205821.B557@dialup124.mi.uni-koeln.de> Reply-To: se@freebsd.org Mail-Followup-To: David Dawes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4825673A.00577C58.00@tw.ibm.com> <19990321132356.M11159@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <19990321132356.M11159@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au>; from David Dawes on Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 01:23:56PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1999-03-21 13:23 +1100, David Dawes wrote: > >Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > >chip0: rev 0x04 on pci0.0.0 > >chip1: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.1 > > I guess the problem is multiple host-PCI bridges. This is something we > need to deal with at XFree86 too. Is it correct that there is no > generic way of handling these? While PCI to PCI bridges are well defined, there is no standard for the position of the secondary bus /subordinate bus registers for host to PCI bridges that connect to multiple PCI buses. The standard asks for one bus with busno=0, where all the other buses are connected to through PCI to PCI bridges. But that is not what (good) systems with many PCI slots have, since each level of PCI to PCI bridges adds latency. Now there is the problem, that the information about the bus range behind each of the CPU to PCI bridges is encoded in the device private range of configuration space, and differently in each device. (If only one CPU to PCI bridge exists, then buses 0 to 255 are reached through that bridge, and there is no need to specify that range. But even the Intel Saturn chip set back in 1994 had secondary/subordinate bus register in order to support multiple host bridges. Too bad these registers have not been declared mandatory for host bridges, and are hardwired to appropriate values (secondary bus=1, subordinate bus=255) in chip sets that do not support multiple directly attached busese ... Regards, STefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 11:56:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109091525A for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:56:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA14406; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:56:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:56:06 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903211956.LAA14406@apollo.backplane.com> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Terry Lambert , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , andreas@klemm.gtn.com, rsnow@lgc.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :That is zero copy, packet is DMA'd from card, then sent via DMA :to another card, hence 0 copy. The CPU doesnt' have much work to :do besides the DMA setups and a quick packet check, look at the :fastforward code and you can see. : :-Alfred 'zero copy' is actually misnomer. What you are describing is really 1-copy because you are using the resources of the PCI bus. A card transfering data internally from one port to another and not utilizing the PCI bus could be considered 'zero copy' from the point of view of the PCI bus. sendfile() is actually a 2-copy scheme: Disk drive DMA's to main memory, network card DMA's from main memory. This is still better then read()/write(), of course, which is a 6-copy scheme: disk drive DMA's to main memory read(): system reads main memory and writes user buffer write(): system reads user buffer and writes main memory network card DMA's from main memory I suppose since a PCI->PCI DMA does not involve main memory you might be able to think of it as 0-copy, but since the critical pipe in this issue is the PCI bus it is more proper to consider it a 1-copy scheme. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 12: 2:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C6F14E93 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:02:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA50283; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:00:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199903212000.MAA50283@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Terry Lambert , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , andreas@klemm.gtn.com, rsnow@lgc.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:56:06 PST." <199903211956.LAA14406@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:00:23 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone know of a faster PCI chipset implementation for PCs? Lets say schedule to be deploy in the next 6 months... Tnks, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 12: 3:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ACFE152BB for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:03:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA14516; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:03:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:03:31 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903212003.MAA14516@apollo.backplane.com> To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Terry Lambert , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , andreas@klemm.gtn.com, rsnow@lgc.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? References: <199903212000.MAA50283@rah.star-gate.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Does anyone know of a faster PCI chipset implementation for PCs? Lets say :schedule :to be deploy in the next 6 months... : : Tnks, : Amancio Most of these chips already pretty much saturate the PCI bus's available bandwidth. You aren't going to get a significant improvement unless you go to a double-speed or double-wide PCI bus. Double-wide ( 64 bits ) is a standard and, in fact, the Gigabit chipset we've been discussing appears to be able to deal with 64 bit wide PCI busses. However, the PCI bus supplied with most PC's is a 32 bit wide bus, so you are limited to an absolute best case 130 MBytes/sec or so worth of bandwidth. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 12:15:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1565814EEE for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:15:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA50370; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:13:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199903212013.MAA50370@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Terry Lambert , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , andreas@klemm.gtn.com, rsnow@lgc.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:03:31 PST." <199903212003.MAA14516@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:13:48 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm.... Does anyone know when the faster PCI busses (64bits or 66MHz PCI clock rate) are going to be availabe ? Also, are there any giga ether cards for AGP ports? Tnks! Amancio > :Does anyone know of a faster PCI chipset implementation for PCs? Lets say > :schedule > :to be deploy in the next 6 months... > : > : Tnks, > : Amancio > > Most of these chips already pretty much saturate the PCI bus's available > bandwidth. You aren't going to get a significant improvement unless you > go to a double-speed or double-wide PCI bus. Double-wide ( 64 bits ) > is a standard and, in fact, the Gigabit chipset we've been discussing > appears to be able to deal with 64 bit wide PCI busses. However, the PCI > bus supplied with most PC's is a 32 bit wide bus, so you are limited > to an absolute best case 130 MBytes/sec or so worth of bandwidth. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 12:26:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 098CB1514E for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:26:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA14982; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:31:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:31:55 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Terry Lambert , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , andreas@klemm.gtn.com, rsnow@lgc.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-Reply-To: <199903211956.LAA14406@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > : > :That is zero copy, packet is DMA'd from card, then sent via DMA > :to another card, hence 0 copy. The CPU doesnt' have much work to > :do besides the DMA setups and a quick packet check, look at the > :fastforward code and you can see. > : > :-Alfred > > 'zero copy' is actually misnomer. What you are describing is really > 1-copy because you are using the resources of the PCI bus. A card I think the term means that the CPU doesn't have to do any copying, which is what you are describing no? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 13:35:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles212.castles.com [208.214.165.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374AA14D19 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:35:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00925; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:29:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199903212129.NAA00925@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Amancio Hasty Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:13:48 PST." <199903212013.MAA50370@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:29:27 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hmm.... > Does anyone know when the faster PCI busses (64bits or 66MHz PCI clock rate) > are going to be availabe ? 64-bit PCI has been available on Alpha and Sparc systems for some time. It's also supported by the Intel 450NX chipset, found in new Xeon systems; boards like the Intel SC450NX and AD450NX have 64-bit PCI slots. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 13:36:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C076F151FE for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:36:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id QAA05306; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:36:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199903212136.QAA05306@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: <199903211845.MAA07901@home.dragondata.com> from Kevin Day at "Mar 21, 99 12:45:55 pm" To: toasty@home.dragondata.com (Kevin Day) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:36:23 -0500 (EST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, des@flood.ping.uio.no, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kevin Day wrote, > The only thing that has worked for me, where in a client configuration like > that that *will* recover from an nfs server reboot is setting '-d'. (Dumb > Timer). It will essentially disable the timeout code, which is where half of > FreeBSD's nfs problems are, i believe. But are most of the problems people have with NFS really isolated to FreeBSD's implamentation? I have seen my share of NFS-weirdness on our IRIXes[0]. My favorite one being that on a group of machines that are brought down and up with some frequency, they must be brought up and down in the correct order. Now bringing them up in order is one thing, but its a pain when one refuses to shut down gracefully when one of the others has gone down before it. [0] Not that IRIX is a model of network stability. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 14:52:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2484814EF7; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA13703; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:21:48 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA07220; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:21:47 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990322092147.T429@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:21:47 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Nick Hilliard Cc: tom@sdf.com, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: dpt raid-5 performance References: <19990321084436.Z429@lemis.com> <199903211417.OAA28733@beckett.earlsfort.iol.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199903211417.OAA28733@beckett.earlsfort.iol.ie>; from Nick Hilliard on Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 02:17:13PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [copying -hackers, since this is of relevance beyond -scsi] On Sunday, 21 March 1999 at 14:17:13 +0000, Nick Hilliard wrote: >> I haven't yet replied to Nick's message because I wanted to check >> something here first, and I've been too busy so far. But I'll come >> back with some comparisons. > > I'm going to run some benchmarks over the next few days and see what they > throw up. > > My instinct was that 512K was a "good" interleave size in some sense > of the word, mainly because of the fact that it would cause so many > fewer disk io ops in most circumstances -- in fact, all > circumstances except where you're doing piles of tiny io ops. The > bonnie results seem to shatter this illusion. I have found a similar tendency with my testing with vinum. *However*, I also looked at the number of I/O requests issued, and they are very varied. There could be a cache interaction problem here. One of the things is that bonnie doesn't measure raw disk throughput, and that's what we're really trying to measure. The figures don't make any sense. Here are the preliminary results. They were all done with a 1.6 GB volume with one plex spread over four ancient CDC drives (thus the poor overall performance; the comparisons should be valid, however). -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU Writes Reads Mblock Mstripe ufs 100 582 13.8 479 3.0 559 5.2 1121 24.6 1124 5.2 45.4 2.6 s1k 100 156 15.4 150 12.3 108 3.7 230 6.7 230 2.7 36.3 3.4 311848 328587 619009 138783 s8k 100 1492 44.8 1478 18.4 723 8.1 1466 34.0 1467 8.2 115.4 8.0 38913 41065 56152 9337 s64k 100 1723 48.6 1581 18.6 1021 11.8 1792 39.5 1827 11.1 115.3 8.8 17238 8231 1294 333 s256k 100 1717 47.2 1629 19.0 937 11.2 1469 32.2 1467 8.7 95.9 7.8 16982 9272 2001 494 s512k 100 1772 48.8 1621 18.0 732 8.3 1256 27.4 1254 7.4 115.4 8.8 16157 7564 155 37 r512k 100 379 14.9 385 8.9 360 4.5 1122 24.7 1258 7.4 80.9 6.7 38339 46453 521 793 s4m/16 100 1572 52.8 1336 18.6 612 6.1 1139 25.2 1142 5.6 97.9 7.1 20434 8028 17 7 s4m/17 100 1431 44.8 1234 16.9 613 6.1 1145 25.4 1147 5.6 97.3 7.0 19922 8101 113 31 Sorry for the format; I'll probably remove some of the bonnie columns when I'm done. The "Machine" indicates the type and stripe size of the plex (r: RAID-5, s: striped, ufs: straight ufs partition for comparison purposes). The additional columns at the end are the writes and reads at plex level, the number of multiblock transfers (combined read and write), and the number of multistripe transfers (combined read and write). A multiblock transfer is one which requires two separate I/Os to satisfy, and a multistripe transfer is one which requires accessing two different stripes. They're the main cause of degraded performance with small stripes. I tried two different approaches with the 4 MB stripes: with a default newfs, I got 16 cylinders per cylinder group and cylinder groups of 32 MB, which placed all the superblocks on the first disk. The second time I tried with 17 cylinders per super group, which put successive superblocks on a different disk. Some of the things that seem to come out of these results are: - Performance with 1 kB stripes is terrible. Performance with 8 kB stripes is much better, but a further increase stripe size helps. - Block read and random seek performance increases dramatically up to a stripe size of about 64 kB, after which it drops off again. - Block write performance increases up to a stripe size of 512 kB, after which it drops off again. - Peak write performance is about 3.5 times that of a straight UFS file system. This is due to buffer cache: the writes are asynchronous to the process, and can thus overlap. I'm quite happy with this particular figure, since it's relatively close to the theoretical maximum of a 4x performance improvement. - Peak read performance is about 1.6 times that of a straight UFS file system. - RAID-5 read performance is comparable to striped read performance. Write performance is about 24% of striped write performance. Note that there is a *decrease* in CPU time for RAID-5 writes: the reason for the performance decrease is that there are many more I/O operations (compare the Reads and Writes columns). The trouble with these results is that they don't make sense. Although we can see some clear trends, there are also obvious anomalies: - On a striped volume, the mapping of reads and writes is identical. Why should reads peak at 64 kB and writes at 512 kB? - The number of multiblock and multistripe transfers for s4m/17 is 8 times that for s4m/16. The number of writes for s4m/17 is lower than for s4m/16. The number of writes should be the number of raw writes to the device (volume) plus the number of multiblock and multistripe transfers; in other words, s4m/17 should have *more* transfers, not less. There's obviously something else here, and I suspect cache. - The random seek performance is pretty constant for s8k, s64k and s512k. Since bonnie performs 8k transfers, this seems reasonable. On the other hand, the performance was much worse for s256k, which I did last. Again, I suspect that there are other issues here which are clouding the results. In addition, bonnie does not simulate true file system performance well. The character I/O benchmarks are not of relevance for what we're looking at, and the block I/O benchmarks all use 8 kB transfers. True file system performance includes transfers of between 1 and 120 sectors of 512 bytes, with an average apparently in the order of 8kB. In real life, the performance benefits of large stripes will be greater. I'm currently thinking of writing a program which will be able to simulate this behaviour and get more plausible measurements. To add to this theory, I've just re-run the 64 kB test under what look to me like identical conditions. Here are the results. The first line is a copy of the one I did yesterday (above), the second one are the new results: -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU Writes Reads Mblock Mstripe s64k 100 1723 48.6 1581 18.6 1021 11.8 1792 39.5 1827 11.1 115.3 8.8 17238 8231 1294 333 s64k 100 1711 48.4 1633 18.9 983 11.5 1778 39.6 1815 11.3 95.8 7.8 16495 8029 7952 1986 In other words, there are significant differences in the way vinum was accessed in each case, and in particular we can assume that the differences in random seek performance are, well, random. Getting back to your results which started this thread, however, there are some significant differences: -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 256 541 7.5 491 1.7 458 2.3 4293 59.1 4335 16.2 193.6 6.8 100 379 14.9 385 8.9 360 4.5 1122 24.7 1258 7.4 80.9 6.7 Comparing the block write and block read performances, vinum gets about 30% of the read performance on writes. Your DPT write results show only 11% of the read performance, and are in fact only slightly faster than vinum with the ancient disks, so I can't see that this could be due to the faster disks. So yes, I suspect there is something wrong here. It's possible that DPT doesn't DTRT with large slices: Vinum only accesses that part of a slice which is necessary for the transfers. It's possible that DPT accesses the complete 512 kB block on each transfer, in which case, of course, it would be detrimental to use a stripe size in excess of about 64 kB, and you might even get better performance with 32 kB. If this is the case, however, it's a bug with DPT's implementation, not a general principle. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 15:39:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B75414BE2 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:39:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA50998; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:38:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199903212338.PAA50998@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:29:27 PST." <199903212129.NAA00925@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:38:09 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm... the 450NZ based chipsets sounds a like a good start for doing giga ethernet card / networking research 8) I would probably opt for a agp port solution for starters I already have a system which supports it so it would mean getting a barebones systems plus the cost of the ethercards. Pity that most systems come with only one AGP port :( Tnks! Amancio > > > > Hmm.... > > Does anyone know when the faster PCI busses (64bits or 66MHz PCI clock rate) > > are going to be availabe ? > > 64-bit PCI has been available on Alpha and Sparc systems for some time. > It's also supported by the Intel 450NX chipset, found in new Xeon > systems; boards like the Intel SC450NX and AD450NX have 64-bit PCI > slots. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 15:53: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E6C1512B for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:52:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id AAA05721 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:52:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 003A7884B; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:13:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:13:09 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Fwd: Re: cron problem? Message-ID: <19990322001309.A53335@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Hackers' list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5130 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wietse found the following while writing Postfix. Can anyone look at it ? ----- Forwarded message from Wietse Venema ----- Subject: Re: cron problem? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:59:34 -0500 (EST) From: wietse@porcupine.org (Wietse Venema) Found it. I'll post a patch later. This must be a *BSD oddity. Wietse Problem: Vixie cron output from an /etc/crontab entry is not mailed, unless the crontab line ends with an explicit mail command System: FreeBSD 2.x, BSD/OS 2.x ... (yes I'm not running the latest) Analysis: For the sake of security and robustness, Postfix tries to ensure that stdin/out/err are open before opening anything else. The following code fragment appears in many programs that I wrote in the course of time: for (fd = 0; fd < 3; fd++) if (fstat(fd, &st) == -1 && open("/dev/null", O_WRONLY) != fd) msg_fatal("open /dev/null: %m"); This fragment examines the status of stdin/stdout/stderr. When fstat() returns an error, the code assumes the file descriptor is not in use, and expects that the next open() will allocate that file descriptor. However, the kernel trace shows a small surprise: 3817 sendmail CALL fstat(0,0xefbfddc8) 3817 sendmail RET fstat 0 3817 sendmail CALL fstat(0x1,0xefbfddc8) 3817 sendmail RET fstat -1 errno 9 Bad file descriptor 3817 sendmail CALL open(0x1c8c,0x1,0xefbfde4c) 3817 sendmail NAMI "/dev/null" 3817 sendmail RET open 3 So: fstat(1) returns EBADF, and open() returns 3. Conclusion: file descriptor 1 is still in use. *** Why on earth does fstat() return EBADF on an open file descriptor? *** Workaround: Close the file descriptor after error return from fstat(). The following code does the job. if (fstat(fd, &st) == -1 && (close(fd), open("/dev/null", O_WRONLY)) != fd) msg_fatal("open /dev/null: %m"); ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 16:41:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B258514FA3 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:41:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA23505; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:41:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903220041.TAA23505@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Death to nfsiod Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:41:01 -0500 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Recently we have been having the problem of disk wait processes on our FreeBSD client machines (served from our FreeBSD servers of the same release, 3.1-STABLE). On the advice of Mike Smith I killed the NFS server processes on the FS, and then restarted them, this fixed the problem. We then recompiled all of our server machines with "maxusers 64" since that had been an apparent problem on another [remote access] server. However, this did not fix the disk wait processes or some other wierdness. As a bit of a torture test I used mkisofs to burn a Joliet IE5 cd iamge. I tried this test >10 times and every time *failed*. The failure would either be a disk-wait process or a wierd error with the output file (the 2 errors with the output file were both demonstrated with "ls *.iso", error 1 was : ie5.iso: protocol error. error 2 (this was much more common): ie5.iso: not a directory), after a couple of seconds the error would go away. Getting to the subject of the message, it has been observed that once a single process goes into this disk-wait state it becomes much more likely for additional processes to get there. While running the mkisofs one time I noticed that at the same time it went into disk wait a nfsiod went into (and remained) in disk wait. As a test I killed and restarted the NFSDs on the server (that woke both the nfsiod and the mkisofs), and then killed all nfsiods on the NFS client. The result is that I have again run mkisofs 10 times, now without a single failure or weird behaviour. -- David "The one long paragraph" Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 16:44:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9920A14F88 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:44:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from workstation.etinc.com (port23.netsvr1.cst.vastnet.net [207.252.73.23]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA17480; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:43:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903220043.TAA17480@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:55:40 -0500 To: Amancio Hasty From: Dennis Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet revisited Cc: Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903211853.KAA49975@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:53 AM 3/21/99 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: >> The most I've done with freebsd is ~52,000pps on a 200Mhz box... >> 66Mb/s throughput, but thats also as high as I've tried. The CPU >> doesnt even blink. Don't beat me up for this but you can send a >> LOT more packets from a Linux 2.2 box then you can from a >> FreeBSD one. > >Why can linux process more packets than FreeBSD? I dunno...."process" may not be the right term...but I have a traffic generator that simply submits packets via a socket ioct interface, and on the exact same hardware the FreeBSD.3.1 app does about 24000 pps and linux does 52000. There is no routing involved either, just raw writes. Dennis > > Amancio > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 16:58:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1F714C8C for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:58:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id QAA49450 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:58:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:58:16 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: pthreads defines Message-ID: <19990321165816.B46483@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If -pthread is given to ``cc'', should it define "_REENTRANT" ? -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 16:59:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0AE114C9A for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:59:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from workstation.etinc.com (port23.netsvr1.cst.vastnet.net [207.252.73.23]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA17538; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:58:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903220058.TAA17538@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:10:21 -0500 To: Amancio Hasty From: Dennis Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199903212013.MAA50370@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:13 PM 3/21/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Hmm.... >Does anyone know when the faster PCI busses (64bits or 66MHz PCI clock rate) >are going to be availabe ? The "availability" of 66Mhz busses is almost moot. Making ASICs work at 33mhz is a chore....66mhz is a waze off. And as far a 64 bit busses.....there arent many processors that can do is, and doubling the bandwidth on a 32bit processor isnt always linear in performance. You have to get a whole new generation of processors before you will see any usable products. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 18: 8:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles212.castles.com [208.214.165.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1DDE152AF for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:06:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02330; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:00:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199903220200.SAA02330@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dennis Cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:10:21 EST." <199903220058.TAA17538@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:00:25 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > At 12:13 PM 3/21/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > >Hmm.... > >Does anyone know when the faster PCI busses (64bits or 66MHz PCI clock rate) > >are going to be availabe ? > > The "availability" of 66Mhz busses is almost moot. Making ASICs work at 33mhz > is a chore....66mhz is a waze off. That's close, but several of the major ASIC vendors were (or were claiming to be) sampling devices with 66MHz PCI macrocells the last time I looked. > And as far a 64 bit busses.....there > arent many > processors that can do is, and doubling the bandwidth on a 32bit processor > isnt > always linear in performance. You have to get a whole new generation of > processors before you will see any usable products. This has nothing whatever to do with reality, however. Most PCI peripherals are bus masters, and most memory busses these days are at least 64 bits wide, so 64 bit PCI has very real performance benefits. The processor's internal word size has little or nothing to do with the equation. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 18:19:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.gwi.net (mail.gwi.net [204.120.68.142]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0008815000 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:19:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fkittred@mail.gwi.net) Received: from mail.gwi.net (fkittred@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gwi.net (8.8.5/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA17770; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:19:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903220219.VAA17770@mail.gwi.net> To: Keith Stevenson Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the IBM Netfinity In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:08:49 EST." <19990320110849.B9286@homer.louisville.edu> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:19:33 -0500 From: Fletcher E Kittredge Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:08:49 -0500 Keith Stevenson wrote: > > For about the next two weeks I have access to an IBM Netfinity 5500 server. > (It might be a 5000. I'm not certain.) The Netware/NT administrator who "owns" > it has graciously offered it to me for FreeBSD testing. (He's too far behind > in his workload to need it right now.) He doesn't care what we install on it > as long as he can have it back in working order in two weeks or so. (The > poor thing is destined to be an NT server.) My question to all of you > (especially the developer types) is what can I do with it in order to assist > FreeBSD in supporting on this platform? I'm planning to start by installing > 3.1 on Monday. This seems like a good opportunity to get some testing done. BTW, we run FreeBSD on a box with some of the same features, IBM PC Server 325. They have the same onboard Fast/Wide Adaptec controller, the same onboard AMD 100mb Ethernet, memory architecture, etc. FreeBSD 3.1 works great on these systems. We have had no problem adding additional Ethernet cards. regards, fletcher To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 20:24: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F379714FE6 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:24:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (wes@zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29164; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:21:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36F5C560.462546F4@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:21:52 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Cc: Dennis , Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? References: <199903220200.SAA02330@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > > At 12:13 PM 3/21/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > >Hmm.... > > >Does anyone know when the faster PCI busses (64bits or 66MHz PCI clock rate) > > >are going to be availabe ? > > > > The "availability" of 66Mhz busses is almost moot. Making ASICs work at 33mhz > > is a chore....66mhz is a waze off. > > That's close, but several of the major ASIC vendors were (or were > claiming to be) sampling devices with 66MHz PCI macrocells the last time > I looked. I guess our 80 Mhz ASICs are a bit of an oddity then? > > And as far a 64 bit busses.....there > > arent many > > processors that can do is, and doubling the bandwidth on a 32bit processor > > isnt > > always linear in performance. You have to get a whole new generation of > > processors before you will see any usable products. > > This has nothing whatever to do with reality, however. Most PCI > peripherals are bus masters, and most memory busses these days are at > least 64 bits wide, so 64 bit PCI has very real performance benefits. > > The processor's internal word size has little or nothing to do with the > equation. Especially when the processor doesn't get particularly involved in the process, like in the case of sendfile(). -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 21: 5:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles237.castles.com [208.214.165.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC3E15059 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:05:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03089; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:59:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199903220459.UAA03089@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Wes Peters Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:21:52 MST." <36F5C560.462546F4@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:59:25 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > >Does anyone know when the faster PCI busses (64bits or 66MHz PCI clock rate) > > > >are going to be availabe ? > > > > > > The "availability" of 66Mhz busses is almost moot. Making ASICs work at 33mhz > > > is a chore....66mhz is a waze off. > > > > That's close, but several of the major ASIC vendors were (or were > > claiming to be) sampling devices with 66MHz PCI macrocells the last time > > I looked. > > I guess our 80 Mhz ASICs are a bit of an oddity then? No; you just don't have any PCI experience. 8) PCI control logic needs to work on both edges of the clock. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 21:51:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37A1614F6F for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:51:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11780; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd011524; Sun Mar 21 22:45:56 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10719; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:45:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903220545.WAA10719@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 05:45:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, wes@softweyr.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903211951.LAA14338@apollo.backplane.com> from "Matthew Dillon" at Mar 21, 99 11:51:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :If you really have a problem with the idea that packets which collide > :should be dropped, well, then stop thinking IP and start thinking ATM > :instead (personnaly, I hate ATM, but if the tool fits...). > > Terry, this may sound great on paper, but nobody in their right mind > drops a packet inside a router unless they absolutely have to. This > lesson was learned long ago, and has only become more important now as > the number of hops increase. There is no simple solution that doesn't > have terrible boundry conditions on the load curve. I think running out of buffers such that a single VC can implement implicit denial of service attacks against another VC counts as an "absolutely has to" situation. This is really no different than th SYN-flooding soloutions. > :Yes, that's true. This is the "minumum pool retention time" problem, > :which is the maximum allowable latency before a discard occurs. > > No, it's worse then that. Supplying sufficient buffer space only > partially solves the problem. If the buffer space is not properly > scheduled, an overload on one port or even just the statistical > possibility of packets being ordered to different destinations > badly can result in a multiplication of the latency to other ports. This is incorporated into the retention time calculation. Scheduling issues are complex, agreed, but real-world soloutions, like dropping oldest packets first (on the theory that they will be retransmitted by the sender first -- and may already have been) frankly tend to have reasonable effects. What we're talking about here is overloading the equipment, and then having it fail in such a way that everyone who is loading it takes the hit "fairly". > Adding even more buffer space to try to brute-force a solution > doesn't work well I'd go farther: I say it doesn't work at all. The idea that by adding a larger buffer (the better to increase your unhandlable backlog?) flies in the face of queueing theory. > :See above. This was a management budget driven topology error, having > :really nothing at all to do with the capabilities of the hardware. It > :was the fact that in a topology having more than one gigaswitch, each > :gigaswitch must dedicate 50% of its capability to talking to the other > :gigaswitches. This means you must increase the number of switches in > :a Fibbonacci sequence, not a linear additive sequence. > > It had nothing to do with any of that. I *LIVED* the crap at MAE-WEST > because BEST had a T3 there and we had to deal with it every day, even > though we were only using 5 MBits out of our 45 MBit T3. The problem > was that a number of small 'backbones' were selling transit bandwidth > at MAE-WEST and overcommitting their bandwidth. The moment any one of > their ports exceeded 45 MBits, the Gigaswitch went poof due to > head-of-queue blocking, a combination of software on the gigaswitch > and the way the gigabit switch's hardware queues packets for transfer > between cards. Sounds like they failed to implement QOS mechanisms and source quench properly. My general response to technology failures is that there is a responsible human, somewhere. I know that they had two gigaswitches at one point in time, and it's obvious from a technical point of view that two gigaswitches are worse than one gigaswitch. > :The MAE-West problem was that (much!) fewer than 50% of the ports on > :the two switches were dedicated to interconnect. > > The problem at MAE-WEST had absolutely nothing to do with this. The > problem occured *inside* a *single* switch. If one port overloaded on > that switch, all the ports started having problems due to head-of-line > blocking. Look. You can only shove as many bits down a pipe as the pipe will take. If it's one port that's killing you, then you start dropping packets to and from that port, and punish the port. While there were humans engaged in overcommit involved, I really have a hard time understanding a design that would allow humans doing what humans would obvious do, given the circumstances, to cause problems. If the thing can't handle N/2 ports running at some speed X on each port, then the ports shouldn't be run at speed X. > BEST had to pull peering with a number of overcommitted nodes for > precisely this reason, but that didn't help nodes that were talking to > us who *were* peering with the overcommitted nodes. The moment any of > these unloaded nodes tried to send a packet to an overcommitted node, > it blocked the head of the queue and created massive latencies for > packets destined to other unloaded nodes. Eventually enough pressure > was placed on the idiot backbones to clean up their act, but it took 2+ > years for them to get to that point. Ugh. What a bad design that could allow such things to happen. Better to drop the packet to the overcommitted node, and deal with the traffic that doesn't involve the overcommit. To hell with the overcommitted node. > The solution to this at MAE-WEST was to clamp down on the idiots who > were selling transit at MAE-WEST and overcommitting their ports, plus > numerous software upgrades none of which really solved the problem > completely. With respect, technology should operate in the absence of human imposition of policy. It should have been technically impossible for the idiots to successfully engage in the behaviour in the first place, and if it wasn't, then that's a design problem with the gigaswitches. > 'you must never fill the pool faster then you can drain it' is a > cop-out. In the best case scenario, that is exactly what happens. > Unfortunately, the best case requires a level of sophistication and > scheduling that only a few people have gotten right. Even Cisco > has blown it numerous times. That's why the people who sell the hardware get the big money. They are being paid to resolve these issues, and paid well. I disagree that it is a "cop out" to expect hardware to function at its rated capacity, but not higher. It should be impossible to drive the hardware above capacity, IMO. > :Increasing the pool size can only compensate for a slow decision process, > :not resource overcommit by a budget-happy management. The laws of physics > :and mathematics bend to the will of no middle-manager. > > This is not a resource overcommit issue. This is a resource scheduling > issue. You can always overcommit a resource -- the router must deal > with that situation no matter what your topology. It is *HOW* you deal > with the overcommit that matters. It is not possible to avoid a resource > overcommit in a router or a switch because ports, even ports with the > same physical speed, have mismatched loads. CPU cycles, like RAM, are a resource. If you can't schedule as fast as the data comes in, then your scheduler is overcommitted. I wish the people working on SMP would look at CPU cycles this way. By definition, something is not overcommitted only when it can meet its commitments. If it can't, then it's broken. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 22:15:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B826150C9 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:15:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2/Netplex) with ESMTP id OAA53446 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:14:41 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199903220614.OAA53446@spinner.netplex.com.au> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:14:40 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Subject: Re: cron problem? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ------- Blind-Carbon-Copy X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: postfix-users@postfix.org (Postfix Users List) Subject: Re: cron problem? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:33:02 EST." Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:14:40 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Greg A. Woods@planix.com (Greg A. Woods) wrote: > [ On Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 17:45:00 (-0500), Wietse Venema wrote: ] > > Subject: Re: cron problem? > > > > Jon Ribbens: > > > The idea was that your code was assuming that fstat() never returns -1 > > > when the descriptor is open, that appears to be wrong in some cases > > > as has been discovered, so maybe it is best to abandon that assumption. > > > > No. Only a broken fstat() fails on an open file descriptor. > > Indeed. Fstat() should work on any file descriptor that can be > successfully passed to close(). I've been having a head scratch tring to understand WTF is going on. It seems... that cron is running with stdin/stdout/stderr pointing off into the void. They appear to have once been attached to /dev/console but have been revoke(2)ed by init when the getty starts on the console. Basically revoke() disconnects fd's that point to the given vnode and reattaches them to the "deadfs" filesystem that just returns errors to everything, including (as it happens) fstat(2) which gets an EBADF. 208> fstat | grep cron root cron 184 root / 2 drwxr-xr-x 1024 r root cron 184 wd /var 3 drwxr-x--- 512 r root cron 184 text /usr 32064 -r-xr-xr-x 24876 r root cron 184 0 - - none - root cron 184 1 - - none - root cron 184 2 - - none - root cron 184 3 /var 28822 -rw-r--r-- 4 rw root cron 184 4* local dgram c6b0bf40 <-> c6b0afc0 fd's 0, 1 and 2 point off to "none" aka deadfs. (fd 3 is it's pid file, fd 4 is a socket to syslog). Sigh. Call this a quirk of the BSD init system, combined with a quirk of the /dev/console redirector, which is interacting with revoke(), which cron doesn't check for, which is breaking postfix. :-) Daemons are started with write access to /dev/console, and then at some point later, it's removed. The interesting thing is that there is no actual getty on /dev/console in my case, it's on /dev/ttyv0 which is a different device. It seems revoke() is killing /dev/console users as a side effect of zapping /dev/ttyv0 strays. Hmm... In any case, cron should NOT be passing this sort of environment to it's children. Normal cron jobs don't see this as they get their own stdin/out/ err etc, but the hacked popen() that vixie-cron uses resets stdin for the sendmail call, but not stdout/stderr. Double-sigh. revoke(2) is the cause of fstat() failing on an open fd. Cheers, - -Peter ------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 22:19:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D01B14D5C for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:19:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2/Netplex) with ESMTP id OAA53483; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:18:25 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199903220618.OAA53483@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Ollivier Robert Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: cron problem? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:13:09 +0100." <19990322001309.A53335@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:18:25 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ollivier Robert wrote: > Wietse found the following while writing Postfix. Can anyone look at it ? A followup is on the way, I tracked down what is causing it. cron(8) is passed stdout etc pointing to /dev/console at startup. [some time later at the end of the boot sequence] init fires up a getty on /dev/ttyv0 revoke("/dev/ttyv0") is redirecting the /dev/console fd's to deadfs [later] cron does a popen() to sendmail (postfix in this case) stdin is a pipe, stdout/err are inherited deadfs descriptors formerly to /dev/console fstat() on the inherited descriptor returns EBADF. methods of testing open fd's no longer work. > ----- Forwarded message from Wietse Venema ----- > > Subject: Re: cron problem? > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:59:34 -0500 (EST) > From: wietse@porcupine.org (Wietse Venema) > > Found it. I'll post a patch later. This must be a *BSD oddity. > > Wietse > > Problem: > > Vixie cron output from an /etc/crontab entry is not mailed, > unless the crontab line ends with an explicit mail command > > System: > > FreeBSD 2.x, BSD/OS 2.x ... (yes I'm not running the latest) > > Analysis: > > For the sake of security and robustness, Postfix tries to > ensure that stdin/out/err are open before opening anything > else. The following code fragment appears in many programs > that I wrote in the course of time: > > for (fd = 0; fd < 3; fd++) > if (fstat(fd, &st) == -1 && open("/dev/null", O_WRONLY) != fd) > msg_fatal("open /dev/null: %m"); > > This fragment examines the status of stdin/stdout/stderr. > When fstat() returns an error, the code assumes the file > descriptor is not in use, and expects that the next open() > will allocate that file descriptor. > > However, the kernel trace shows a small surprise: > > 3817 sendmail CALL fstat(0,0xefbfddc8) > 3817 sendmail RET fstat 0 > 3817 sendmail CALL fstat(0x1,0xefbfddc8) > 3817 sendmail RET fstat -1 errno 9 Bad file descriptor > 3817 sendmail CALL open(0x1c8c,0x1,0xefbfde4c) > 3817 sendmail NAMI "/dev/null" > 3817 sendmail RET open 3 > > So: fstat(1) returns EBADF, and open() returns 3. > > Conclusion: file descriptor 1 is still in use. > > *** Why on earth does fstat() return EBADF on an open file > descriptor? *** > > Workaround: > > Close the file descriptor after error return from fstat(). > > The following code does the job. > > if (fstat(fd, &st) == -1 > && (close(fd), open("/dev/null", O_WRONLY)) != fd) > msg_fatal("open /dev/null: %m"); > > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.f r > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm Netplex Consulting "No coffee, No workee!" :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 22:51:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from theo.thg.goe.ni.schule.de (theo.THG.Goe.NI.Schule.DE [195.27.182.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD49E14CFC for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:51:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gratke@thg.goe.ni.schule.de) Received: from elly.thg.goe.ni.schule.de (gratke@elly.thg.goe.ni.schule.de [195.27.182.98]) by theo.thg.goe.ni.schule.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA01376 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:51:08 +0100 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:51:31 +0100 (MET) From: Georg Ratke To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG unsubscribe freebsd-hackers-digest To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 23:15: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A829F14CFC for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:15:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA28422 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:14:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903220714.CAA28422@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: beyond 32 signals Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:14:45 -0500 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have periodically poked arround with moving FreeBSD beyond 32 signals. The current idea that wanders through my head every few months or so is to create a seperate set of signal routines (sigaction() and friends) for handling and registering signals (all new programs would be compiled with the newer version (new syscall #), but old programs continue to work. The problem I have come across is sigcontext (a wonderfully usefull structure) has a in for the signal mask. I cannot figure out a way to get arround this without having 2 seperate signal processing systems (I really would like to avoid that. Anyone have any ideas on this? -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 23:40:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7566B14E22 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:40:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id XAA16463; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:40:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:40:20 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903220740.XAA16463@apollo.backplane.com> To: tlambert@primenet.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, wes@softweyr.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? References: <199903220545.WAA10719@usr01.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :What we're talking about here is overloading the equipment, and then :having it fail in such a way that everyone who is loading it takes :the hit "fairly". : :... : :> head-of-queue blocking, a combination of software on the gigaswitch :> and the way the gigabit switch's hardware queues packets for transfer :> between cards. : :Sounds like they failed to implement QOS mechanisms and source quench :properly. My general response to technology failures is that there is :a responsible human, somewhere. I know that they had two gigaswitches :at one point in time, and it's obvious from a technical point of view :that two gigaswitches are worse than one gigaswitch. The MAE-WEST gigaswitch failure has nothing to do with QOS or source quench. There is no such thing as source-quench on a FDDI/T3 switch. Nobody in their right mind uses source quench in a router or switch matrix. :> The problem at MAE-WEST had absolutely nothing to do with this. The :> problem occured *inside* a *single* switch. If one port overloaded on :> that switch, all the ports started having problems due to head-of-line :> blocking. : :Look. You can only shove as many bits down a pipe as the pipe will :take. If it's one port that's killing you, then you start dropping :packets to and from that port, and punish the port. : :While there were humans engaged in overcommit involved, I really have :a hard time understanding a design that would allow humans doing what :humans would obvious do, given the circumstances, to cause problems. : :If the thing can't handle N/2 ports running at some speed X on each :port, then the ports shouldn't be run at speed X. The overcommit problem is not trivially solved when the blockage runs at the hardware level, because problems can occur without the router actually overcommitting the destination card's buffer. The scheduling problem relates heavily to avoiding DMA blockages in switch matrixes. DMA blockages occur even with full cross bars and it is not a problem that can be solved by bumping up switch matrix performance. The problem occurs when several source cards attempt to DMA packets to the same destination card. Even if the destination card has sufficient buffer memory to hold the packets, and even if no overcommit ( time wise ) would occur, most cards cannot typically handle the bandwidth of several ( > 1 ) other cards sending to it simultaniously. In fact, most switch matrices can only route one source to any given destination at a time -- the parallelism occurs because the switch matrix can route several sources to several different destinations simultaniously, not route several sources to the same destination simultaniously. This creates a situation where a source card can block in DMA. It is statistically possible for packets to be arranged such that switch performance is seriously degraded, increasing latency significantly ( even beyond what might be considered acceptable ) *EVEN* when buffer space is available. Switch scheduling is required to avoid this problem -- to prevent multiple sources from trying to DMA packets to the same destination at the same time in the first place and instead using those time slices to DMA packets going to other destinations. Buffer management requires scheduling too. Not only that, it requires dynamic queue sizing on the source card, because it is on the source card where dropping a packet ( prior to the packet traversing the switch matrix and being enqueued in the destination buffer ) yields the best fairness when a destination is overcommitted. Unfortunately, the best place to drop a packet when the source and destination speeds are mismatched is on the destination buffer queue. The scheduler must deal with these two clashing problems as well in order to both speed-match the ports AND to properly drop packets from the correct source(s) when the destination buffer overcommitted. The scheduler in a real router/switch must also deal with hardware DMA conflicts ( blockages ), and stabilizing buffer latency under a wide range of load conditions and port<->port combinations. :> The solution to this at MAE-WEST was to clamp down on the idiots who :> were selling transit at MAE-WEST and overcommitting their ports, plus : :With respect, technology should operate in the absence of human :imposition of policy. It should have been technically impossible :for the idiots to successfully engage in the behaviour in the first :place, and if it wasn't, then that's a design problem with the :gigaswitches. With respect, you are assuming that the problems can be solved trivially. These are *NOT* trivial problems. Very not trivial problems. Not even *CLOSE* to trivial problems. I can't repeat this enough times. : Terry Lambert : terry@lambert.org -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 21 23:52:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E6C014BE9 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:52:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id XAA16629; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:52:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:52:11 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903220752.XAA16629@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Crist J. Clark" Cc: toasty@home.dragondata.com (Kevin Day), tlambert@primenet.com, des@flood.ping.uio.no, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? References: <199903212136.QAA05306@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Kevin Day wrote, :> The only thing that has worked for me, where in a client configuration like :> that that *will* recover from an nfs server reboot is setting '-d'. (Dumb :> Timer). It will essentially disable the timeout code, which is where half of :> FreeBSD's nfs problems are, i believe. : :But are most of the problems people have with NFS really isolated to :FreeBSD's implamentation? I have seen my share of NFS-weirdness on our :IRIXes[0]. My favorite one being that on a group of machines that are :brought down and up with some frequency, they must be brought up and :down in the correct order. Now bringing them up in order is one thing, :but its a pain when one refuses to shut down gracefully when one of :the others has gone down before it. : :[0] Not that IRIX is a model of network stability. :-- :Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com IRIX doesn't have the best NFS implementation in the world, at least not when we were using it a year or two ago (IRIX 6.2ish). Solaris is the benchmark NFS implementation that most people test their stuff on. For FreeBSD, the problem with NFS stems from a crappy initial implementation. Fixing it is not easy, though we are making progress. Rewriting it is out of the question... nobody has that kind of time and it would be several man-months worth of work. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 4:38:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11334151C0 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 04:38:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA38608; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:37:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <199903221237.HAA38608@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, wes@softweyr.com, ckempf@enigami.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? References: <199903220545.WAA10719@usr01.primenet.com> <199903220740.XAA16463@apollo.backplane.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:40:20 PST." <199903220740.XAA16463@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:37:48 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :> The solution to this at MAE-WEST was to clamp down on the idiots who > :> were selling transit at MAE-WEST and overcommitting their ports, plus > : > :With respect, technology should operate in the absence of human > :imposition of policy. It should have been technically impossible > :for the idiots to successfully engage in the behaviour in the first > :place, and if it wasn't, then that's a design problem with the > :gigaswitches. > > With respect, you are assuming that the problems can be solved trivially. > These are *NOT* trivial problems. Very not trivial problems. Not even > *CLOSE* to trivial problems. I can't repeat this enough times. Alternatively, you buy hardware that doesn't have pathological performance in certain operating regions. The head-of-line blocking experienced in the DEC FDDI gigaswitches is a classic and well-known characteristic of that type of switch fabric. It has other interesting characteristics, such as having to work hard to avoid deadlocking the switch fabric when multiple input ports are trying to deliver a multicast/broadcast frame to to overlapping output ports. You have to implement partial completion in the the crossbar fabric to avoid this problem. The human intervention that Matt references wasn't tuning the operation of the swtich directly; it was arranging to avoid the part of the operating regime where the swtich exhibits poor performance. If the switch wasn't broken, you wouldn't have to indirectly engineer loading to avoid head of line blocking. But in any case you still have to do large-system type engineering to avoid the 10 pounds of packets in a 5 pound sack problem. You just can't think of these switches in the context of a general purpose computer with busses and peripherals. High-performance switches and routers are fundamentally architecturally different beasts than the the FreeBSD box on your desk. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 5:46: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58318151ED; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 05:29:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by phk.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04282; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:28:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA14971; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:28:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:28:50 +0100 Message-ID: <14969.922109330.1@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: NTP kernel support in FreeBSD, a few notes... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa" Content-Description: Blind Carbon Copy Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Description: Original Message Subject: NTP kernel support in FreeBSD, a few notes... Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:28:50 +0100 Message-ID: <14969.922109330@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Bcc: Blind Distribution List: ; MIME-Version: 1.0 I have just merged the recent modifications to the kernel support for NTPD from -current to -stable. We now fully support both XNTPD version 3 (as in usr/src/usr.sbin) and NTPD version 4 in both -current & -stable. In fact, we not only support it, we define state of the art performance when using the pci/xrpu.c driver. We have only adopted the PLL/FLL section of Dave Mills "nanokernel", the rest of the stuff is still "timecounter" based. We have PPS-API support on the parallel port and on the pci/xrpu.c driver, John Hay has submitted patches to me for PPS-API support on sio.c (DCD) these will be committed to -current once I have them tested. I may experient a bit with hardpps() in -current if I can find the time, but these experiments will not be reflected in -stable until some kind of conclusion has been reached. The issue at hand is if a "normal" 2nd order PLL would do better for precise-phase hardpps() signals ("prefer peers") Anyone out there with hardpps() able refclocks are invited to join in on these experients. If you want to try out the pci/xrpu.c timestamping function, send me email, I have not committed the VHDL & stuff to the tree yet. Hope you like it... -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 7:17:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65D631517D for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:17:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00331; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:17:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA23655; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:16:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:16:27 -0500 (EST) To: Mike Smith Cc: Amancio Hasty , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-Reply-To: <199903212129.NAA00925@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199903212013.MAA50370@rah.star-gate.com> <199903212129.NAA00925@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14070.22663.501605.138166@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith writes: > > > > Hmm.... > > Does anyone know when the faster PCI busses (64bits or 66MHz PCI clock rate) > > are going to be availabe ? > > 64-bit PCI has been available on Alpha and Sparc systems for some time. Be very, very wary of 64-bit PCI implementations on Alphas and UltraSparcs. In many cases a 32-bit intel 440BX or similar chipset will outperform 64-bit Alpha or Sun chipsets. On alphas, the only workstation 64-bit PCI implentation which is free from performance problems with is the new Tsunami chipset, used in the new 21264 workstations & small servers (XP1000, DS20, DP264) (older server chipsets might be OK, but I don't know -- we don't have any 4100's or 8x00s). Machines based on the Pyxis (21174) chipset have great DMA write bandwidth, but bad DMA read bandwidth and early revisions are buggy as well. On the miata (Personal Workstation) this can be 'fixed' by removing the L3 cache. On the AlphaPC164lx, this can be 'fixed' by turning on DMA read prefetching in the PXYS_CTRL register -- which works great for Myrinet Lanai5 cards, but will lock a machine with an older Myrinet Lanai4, or Alteon card. The older CIA (2117{1,2}) chipset (used in AlphaStations and EB164's) has great DMA read bandwidth, but terrible DMA write bandwidth. Suns have similar performance problems. They do have the advantage of being able to run 64-bit cards a 66Mhz, which makes up for a lot if your NIC supports it (Alteon does). Take a look at http://www.myri.com:80/scs/PCI64X/performance for 64-bit, 33Mhz DMA performance numbers. And http://www.myri.com:80/myrinet/performance/DMAperf.html for 32-bit, 33Mhz numbers. They call DMA reads 'E2L', and DMA writes 'L2E'. Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 7:52: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sierrahill.com (unknown [209.198.135.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8C815248 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:52:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rjoe@sierrahill.com) Received: (from rjoe@localhost) by sierrahill.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17602; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:58:18 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjoe) From: Joe Schwartz Message-Id: <199903221558.JAA17602@sierrahill.com> Subject: login ID max length To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:58:18 -0600 (CST) Cc: rjoe@sierrahill.com ( Joe Schwartz ) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Folks, This is on release 3.1. What is the maximum length for a login ID. I thought it was 8 characters ... but just installed majordomo and realized after I'd done the 'adduser' that it was 9 characters ... and I can login as mojordomo. I have just created users on this machine which were on an NT server where some had longer than 8 characters. Could I have created these long user ID's without truncating at 8 characters? Thanks, Joe Schwartz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 8: 1: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from plunger.gdeb.com (plunger.gdeb.com [153.11.11.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 761B514D5C for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:00:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from orion.caen.gdeb.com ([153.11.109.11]) by plunger.gdeb.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/CSC-E_4.1) with ESMTP id KAA16849; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:57:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from clcrtr.clc.gdeb.com (clcrtr [153.11.109.129]) by orion.caen.gdeb.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA07152; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:59:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Message-ID: <36F668EE.2781E494@vigrid.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:59:42 -0500 From: "Daniel M. Eischen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Fatal GCC error found Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I found something that causes a fatal GCC bug. This is with both the stock FreeBSD gcc and the port for gcc-28. This can be reproduced by building the Ada-aware GDB port found at: ftp://ftp.pcnet.com/users/eischen/FreeBSD/adagdb-4.17-port.tar.gz and building with 'make EXPOSE_FATAL_GCC_ERROR=yes'. If you don't define EXPOSE_FATAL_GCC_ERROR, a work-around patch is applied and the port successfully builds. For anyone interested in tracking this down, here's how it aborts: cc -c -O -pipe -DFREEBSD_ELF -I. -I. -I./config -DHAVE_CONFIG_H \ -I./../include/opcode -I./../readline -I../bfd -I./../bfd -I./../include \ ada-lang.c ada-lang.c: In function `ada_evaluate_subexp': ada-lang.c:5951: internal error--insn does not satisfy its constraints: (insn 2997 2996 4542 (parallel[ (set (reg:DI 1 %edx) (minus:DI (reg:DI 0 %eax) (reg/v:DI 3 %ebx))) (clobber (scratch:SI)) ] ) 135 {subdi3} (insn_list 2982 (insn_list 2994 (nil))) (expr_list:REG_DEAD (mem:DI (plus:SI (reg:SI 6 %ebp) (const_int -64))) (expr_list:REG_DEAD (reg/v:DI 3 %ebx) (expr_list:REG_UNUSED (scratch:SI) (nil))))) cc: Internal compiler error: program cc1 got fatal signal 6 *** Error code 1 The fix to this is to change 2 ocurrences of the following line: (*pos) += 3 + BYTES_TO_EXP_ELEM (tem + 1); to (*pos) = (*pos) + 3 + BYTES_TO_EXP_ELEM (tem + 1); If someone knows how to fix this, please let me know. I'm going to file a PR on this later tonight. Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 8:30:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F297A150AF for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:30:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id BAA24782; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:30:18 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36F66FBA.46EA776D@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:28:42 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Schwartz Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: login ID max length References: <199903221558.JAA17602@sierrahill.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From 3.x on, the user id maximum length is 16. This can be changed in the source code, of course, but I think anyone trying is likely to forget something or other... :-) Joe Schwartz wrote: > > Folks, > > This is on release 3.1. > > What is the maximum length for a login ID. I thought it > was 8 characters ... but just installed majordomo and > realized after I'd done the 'adduser' that it was 9 > characters ... and I can login as mojordomo. > > I have just created users on this machine which were on an > NT server where some had longer than 8 characters. > > Could I have created these long user ID's without truncating > at 8 characters? > > Thanks, > > Joe Schwartz > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "What happened?" "It moved, sir!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 8:49:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from regret.globalserve.net (regret.globalserve.net [209.90.144.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15E7414C59 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:48:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dm@regret.globalserve.net) Received: (from dm@localhost) by regret.globalserve.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA60181; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:58:18 GMT (envelope-from dm) Message-ID: <19990322125817.A60019@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:58:18 +0000 From: Dan Moschuk To: Matthew Dillon Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? References: <199903212136.QAA05306@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> <199903220752.XAA16629@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199903220752.XAA16629@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 11:52:11PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > IRIX doesn't have the best NFS implementation in the world, at least > not when we were using it a year or two ago (IRIX 6.2ish). > > Solaris is the benchmark NFS implementation that most people test > their stuff on. > > For FreeBSD, the problem with NFS stems from a crappy initial > implementation. Fixing it is not easy, though we are making progress. > Rewriting it is out of the question... nobody has that kind of time > and it would be several man-months worth of work. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > Interesting enough, a client that I do contract work for is willing to pay me for 50 hours of time to fix up FreeBSD's NFS implementation. That's a pretty big penny. I expect I'd be starting this mid-April. Regards, -- Dan Moschuk (TFreak!dm@globalserve.net) Senior Systems/Network Administrator Globalserve Communications Inc., a Primus Canada Company "If at first you don't succeed, redefine success" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 9:13:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA4FA14BED for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:13:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA20551; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:11:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903221711.MAA20551@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:07:02 -0500 To: Mike Smith From: Dennis Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? Cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199903220200.SAA02330@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 06:00 PM 3/21/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> At 12:13 PM 3/21/99 -0800, you wrote: >> > >> >Hmm.... >> >Does anyone know when the faster PCI busses (64bits or 66MHz PCI clock rate) >> >are going to be availabe ? >> >> The "availability" of 66Mhz busses is almost moot. Making ASICs work at 33mhz >> is a chore....66mhz is a waze off. > >That's close, but several of the major ASIC vendors were (or were >claiming to be) sampling devices with 66MHz PCI macrocells the last time >I looked. Any names? the vendors will be few, I think, for awhile. >> And as far a 64 bit busses.....there >> arent many >> processors that can do is, and doubling the bandwidth on a 32bit processor >> isnt >> always linear in performance. You have to get a whole new generation of >> processors before you will see any usable products. > >This has nothing whatever to do with reality, however. Most PCI >peripherals are bus masters, and most memory busses these days are at >least 64 bits wide, so 64 bit PCI has very real performance benefits. > >The processor's internal word size has little or nothing to do with the >equation. The ability to do single-cycle transfers IS affected by the internal processor's word size. If it can't do sustained single-cycle bursts then performance suffers significantly, so I disagree wholeheartedly on this. If the on-board processor doesnt have a 64bit bus it is very difficult to do single cycle transfers. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 10:23: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC70814D5C for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:22:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA60269; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:21:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199903221821.KAA60269@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dan Moschuk Cc: Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:58:18 GMT." <19990322125817.A60019@globalserve.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:21:15 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thats a good start , now if we get a few more companies to chip in who knows we may end up with a kick ass NFS implementation. Amancio > Interesting enough, a client that I do contract work for is willing to pay > me for 50 hours of time to fix up FreeBSD's NFS implementation. That's a > pretty big penny. > > I expect I'd be starting this mid-April. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 10:34:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B4914C20 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:34:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA21361; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:34:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:34:27 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903221834.KAA21361@apollo.backplane.com> To: Dennis Cc: Mike Smith , Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? References: <199903221711.MAA20551@etinc.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :>This has nothing whatever to do with reality, however. Most PCI :>peripherals are bus masters, and most memory busses these days are at :>least 64 bits wide, so 64 bit PCI has very real performance benefits. :> :>The processor's internal word size has little or nothing to do with the :>equation. : :The ability to do single-cycle transfers IS affected by the internal :processor's :word size. If it can't do sustained single-cycle bursts then performance :suffers :significantly, so I disagree wholeheartedly on this. If the on-board processor :doesnt have a 64bit bus it is very difficult to do single cycle transfers. : :Dennis All PCI card chipsets implement internal read and write DMA FIFO's. Thus a 64 bit PCI card can easily burst 64 bit words over the PCI bus. If the processor on the card itself cannot stuff the FIFO quickly enough to hold the burst for a period longer then the size of the FIFO, it's no big deal because the processor on the card can obviously pump data sufficiently to handle the physical I/O it is supporting for that card , and the FIFO is large enough such that the shorter higher-speed burst on the PCI bus will be sufficient enough to use the PCI bus bandwidth efficiently. What bandwidth cannot be used by one card will certainly be used by another. This just isn't an issue. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 11:17:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FA3B14DA0 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:16:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA23955; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:15:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:15:57 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903221915.LAA23955@apollo.backplane.com> To: "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: Death to nfsiod References: <199903220041.TAA23505@cs.rpi.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Recently we have been having the problem of disk wait processes on our :FreeBSD client machines (served from our FreeBSD servers of the same :release, 3.1-STABLE). On the advice of Mike Smith I killed the NFS :server processes on the FS, and then restarted them, this fixed the :problem. We then recompiled all of our server machines with "maxusers 64" :since that had been an apparent problem on another [remote access] server. :However, this did not fix the disk wait processes or some other wierdness. :As a bit of a torture test I used mkisofs to burn a Joliet IE5 cd iamge. :I tried this test >10 times and every time *failed*. The failure would :either be a disk-wait process or a wierd error with the output file (the :2 errors with the output file were both demonstrated with "ls *.iso", error :1 was : ie5.iso: protocol error. error 2 (this was much more common): :ie5.iso: not a directory), after a couple of seconds the error would go :away. Getting to the subject of the message, it has been observed that :once a single process goes into this disk-wait state it becomes much more :likely for additional processes to get there. While running the mkisofs :one time I noticed that at the same time it went into disk wait a nfsiod :went into (and remained) in disk wait. As a test I killed and restarted :the NFSDs on the server (that woke both the nfsiod and the mkisofs), and :then killed all nfsiods on the NFS client. The result is that I have again :run mkisofs 10 times, now without a single failure or weird behaviour. : :-- :David "The one long paragraph" Cross If this is 3.1-RELEASE, or if this is a 3.x-STABLE more then a week or so old, update to the latest 3.x-STABLE and re-test. A large number of NFS-related bugs were fixed in 3.x the last two weeks. Currently there are known but not-yet-tracked-down problems with the case where exported files being accessed by clients are modified on the server. If this is not the case, and you still have bugs, this could be something new. The only bug I know in regards to nfsd/nfsiod is a performance issue with the async daemons queueing I/O for the same vnode and different nfsd's picking it up, causing vnode lock serialization to occur on the server. But this wasn't a deadlock in the tests I ran. If you determine that the bug is still there with the latest -stable, I can setup my test box to start doing mkisofs runs. Your NFS configuration ( dmesg, df, mkisofs command line you are using, mount options if any ) would also be valueable. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 12:12: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA79815215 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:11:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00488; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:04:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199903222004.MAA00488@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dennis Cc: Mike Smith , Amancio Hasty , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:07:02 EST." <199903221711.MAA20551@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:04:04 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> And as far a 64 bit busses.....there > >> arent many > >> processors that can do is, and doubling the bandwidth on a 32bit processor > >> isnt > >> always linear in performance. You have to get a whole new generation of > >> processors before you will see any usable products. > > > >This has nothing whatever to do with reality, however. Most PCI > >peripherals are bus masters, and most memory busses these days are at > >least 64 bits wide, so 64 bit PCI has very real performance benefits. > > > >The processor's internal word size has little or nothing to do with the > >equation. > > The ability to do single-cycle transfers IS affected by the internal > processor's > word size. If it can't do sustained single-cycle bursts then performance > suffers > significantly, so I disagree wholeheartedly on this. If the on-board processor > doesnt have a 64bit bus it is very difficult to do single cycle transfers. Uh, I don't know what version of PCI you've been using up 'till now, but busmaster DMA transactions (the only way to get performace out of PCI at all) do not in any way shape or form involve the CPU. In addition, single-cycle burst transactions are so hopelessly inefficient (they are only useful for PIO) that, again, they have no place whatsoever in this discussion. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 12:21: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B15015238 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA21360; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:19:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903222019.PAA21360@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:14:34 -0500 To: Matthew Dillon From: Dennis Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? Cc: Mike Smith , Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903221834.KAA21361@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199903221711.MAA20551@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:34 AM 3/22/99 -0800, Matthew Dillon wrote: > >:>This has nothing whatever to do with reality, however. Most PCI >:>peripherals are bus masters, and most memory busses these days are at >:>least 64 bits wide, so 64 bit PCI has very real performance benefits. >:> >:>The processor's internal word size has little or nothing to do with the >:>equation. >: >:The ability to do single-cycle transfers IS affected by the internal >:processor's >:word size. If it can't do sustained single-cycle bursts then performance >:suffers >:significantly, so I disagree wholeheartedly on this. If the on-board processor >:doesnt have a 64bit bus it is very difficult to do single cycle transfers. >: >:Dennis > > All PCI card chipsets implement internal read and write > DMA FIFO's. Thus a 64 bit PCI card can easily burst 64 bit > words over the PCI bus. If the processor on the card > itself cannot stuff the FIFO quickly enough to hold the burst > for a period longer then the size of the FIFO, it's no big deal > because the processor on the card can obviously pump data > sufficiently to handle the physical I/O it is supporting for > that card , and the FIFO is large enough such that the > shorter higher-speed burst on the PCI bus will be sufficient > enough to use the PCI bus bandwidth efficiently. What bandwidth > cannot be used by one card will certainly be used by another. > > This just isn't an issue. Shorter bursts are less efficient, which implies that 64bit PCI transfers can be not much better than 32bit with sustained bursts, which is my point. You could easily have a 64-bit pci card that was slower than (or the same as) a 32-bit one due to this factor. Im not arguing that it doesnt work, only that its not a cureall to the throughput problem. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 12:45:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B30DA14D04 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:45:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA24353; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:45:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:45:21 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903222045.MAA24353@apollo.backplane.com> To: Dennis Cc: Mike Smith , Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? References: <199903221711.MAA20551@etinc.com> <199903222019.PAA21360@etinc.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :>:Dennis :> :> All PCI card chipsets implement internal read and write :> DMA FIFO's. Thus a 64 bit PCI card can easily burst 64 bit :> words over the PCI bus. If the processor on the card :> itself cannot stuff the FIFO quickly enough to hold the burst :> for a period longer then the size of the FIFO, it's no big deal :> because the processor on the card can obviously pump data :> sufficiently to handle the physical I/O it is supporting for :> that card , and the FIFO is large enough such that the :> shorter higher-speed burst on the PCI bus will be sufficient :> enough to use the PCI bus bandwidth efficiently. What bandwidth :> cannot be used by one card will certainly be used by another. :> :> This just isn't an issue. :Shorter bursts are less efficient, which implies that 64bit PCI transfers :can be not much better than 32bit with sustained bursts, which is :my point. You could easily have a 64-bit pci card that was slower than :(or the same as) a 32-bit one due to this factor. Im not arguing that it :doesnt work, only that its not a cureall to the throughput problem. : :Dennis Dennis, please read my response more carefully and you will understand why your concerns are unfounded. I will paraphrase: "The FIFOs are large enough such that the burst is going to be relatively efficient no matter what the PCI bus width and no matter how slow the card". The problem that is being solved here is not a card's ability to sustain a long burst, but instead the bandwidth available on the PCI bus when multiple cards are operating. There is no advantage to any single card being able to do long sustained bursts on a faster PCI bus because they are already limited to the speed physical media they were built to handle. The requirement is for the card to be able to sustain a reasonably-sized burst so the PCI bus's transactional overhead remains small verses the actual data transfer. This is what the FIFO accomplishes. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 13:22:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ED7F151F9 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:22:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28525; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:18:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:18:38 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Dan Moschuk , Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: <199903221821.KAA60269@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Thats a good start , now if we get a few more companies to chip in > who knows we may end up with a kick ass NFS implementation. > > Amancio > > > Interesting enough, a client that I do contract work for is willing to pay > > me for 50 hours of time to fix up FreeBSD's NFS implementation. That's a > > pretty big penny. > > > > I expect I'd be starting this mid-April. Maybe ... you know, I would be willing to contribute a one time shot, say $100 (maybe more?), to a fund to fix nfs. I bet others would too. I bet if such a fund were advertised, and a goal set, that commercial interests would *very quickly* contribute. It's even possible that maybe one other goal besides nfs could be gotten ... maybe making our FS's stackable? wouldn't that be incredible? I think quite a bit of money could be gathered in as little as a month or two. There are several folks who could very definitely do this, and would if they were paid. There are a pretty good number of us FreeBSDers around now, and a lot of us would really appreciate being given a chance to be a part of this. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 13:43:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB331526A for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:43:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA61098; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:41:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199903222141.NAA61098@rah.star-gate.com> To: Chuck Robey Cc: Amancio Hasty , Dan Moschuk , Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:18:38 EST." Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:41:09 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Okay, I will donate $100 towards fixing NFS to whom do I send my check ? Best Regards, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 13:49: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D0C150AF for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:49:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id PAA16729; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:47:17 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199903222147.PAA16729@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: from Chuck Robey at "Mar 22, 1999 4:18:38 pm" To: chuckr@mat.net (Chuck Robey) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:47:16 -0600 (CST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Maybe ... you know, I would be willing to contribute a one time shot, > say $100 (maybe more?), to a fund to fix nfs. I bet others would too. I > bet if such a fund were advertised, and a goal set, that commercial > interests would *very quickly* contribute. It's even possible that > maybe one other goal besides nfs could be gotten ... maybe making our > FS's stackable? wouldn't that be incredible? > > I think quite a bit of money could be gathered in as little as a month > or two. There are several folks who could very definitely do this, and > would if they were paid. There are a pretty good number of us > FreeBSDers around now, and a lot of us would really appreciate being > given a chance to be a part of this. > > I'd definately put $100 up for someone to fix nfs, if that helps the cause any. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 13:50:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9571115353 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:50:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA62095; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:48:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:48:27 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Dan Moschuk , Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: <199903222141.NAA61098@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Okay, I will donate $100 towards fixing NFS to whom do I send my check ? You cut so much context, Amancio, this'll just serve to confuse folks. We don't, I think, need money offers (yet), and I don't think that's going to be a problem, what we need is someone willing (and able) to take the donations. Maybe someone on core? I am hopeless when it comes to money, I can't possibly do it, but don't lets start the money offering until someone steps up and says their willing to be responsible for keeping track of the loot. > > Best Regards, > Amancio > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 13:54: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E6715381 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:54:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13105; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:52:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903222152.QAA13105@cs.rpi.edu> To: Kevin Day Cc: chuckr@mat.net (Chuck Robey), hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: Message from Kevin Day of "Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:47:16 CST." <199903222147.PAA16729@home.dragondata.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:52:14 -0500 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Count me in for a donation of $500 to $750 for work on the NFS system. -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 13:54:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0FC015360 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:54:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19797; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:53:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:53:19 -0700 (MST) From: Brian Handy To: Kevin Day Cc: Chuck Robey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: <199903222147.PAA16729@home.dragondata.com> Message-ID: X-files: The truth is out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck and Kevin have both spoken [the rest of cc: was trimmed]: >I'd definately put $100 up for someone to fix nfs, if that helps the cause >any. Sign me up for another $100. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 13:59: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A340B153A0 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA73320; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:56:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:56:16 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Kevin Day Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: <199903222147.PAA16729@home.dragondata.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Kevin Day wrote: > > Maybe ... you know, I would be willing to contribute a one time shot, > > say $100 (maybe more?), to a fund to fix nfs. I bet others would too. I > > bet if such a fund were advertised, and a goal set, that commercial > > interests would *very quickly* contribute. It's even possible that > > maybe one other goal besides nfs could be gotten ... maybe making our > > FS's stackable? wouldn't that be incredible? > > > > I think quite a bit of money could be gathered in as little as a month > > or two. There are several folks who could very definitely do this, and > > would if they were paid. There are a pretty good number of us > > FreeBSDers around now, and a lot of us would really appreciate being > > given a chance to be a part of this. > > > > > > I'd definately put $100 up for someone to fix nfs, if that helps the cause > any. Let me say it again ... we don't need money offers (we'll get crushed with them, please don't start mailing that stuff), what we need is an offer from some one, a committer or core, who'll take responsibility to collect the dough and be publicly reponsible for it. If I weren't so hopeless with bucks, I'd offer to do it myself. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 14:12:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDAF0150AF for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:12:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06607; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:12:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18339; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:12:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA17322; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:12:00 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199903222212.OAA17322@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:12:00 -0800 In-Reply-To: "David E. Cross" "beyond 32 signals" (Mar 22, 2:14am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: beyond 32 signals Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mar 22, 2:14am, "David E. Cross" wrote: } Subject: beyond 32 signals } I have periodically poked arround with moving FreeBSD beyond 32 signals. } The current idea that wanders through my head every few months or so is } to create a seperate set of signal routines (sigaction() and friends) } for handling and registering signals (all new programs would be compiled with } the newer version (new syscall #), but old programs continue to work. The } problem I have come across is sigcontext (a wonderfully usefull structure) } has a in for the signal mask. I cannot figure out a way to get arround this } without having 2 seperate signal processing systems (I really would like } to avoid that. Anyone have any ideas on this? I believe NetBSD now handles more than 32 signals. You might want to look at their implementation. --- Truck To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 14:26:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A584B1533C for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:26:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from fermion (fermion.ChrisBowman.com [10.0.1.2]) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.9.2/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA02718; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:24:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Message-Id: <199903222224.RAA02718@quark.ChrisBowman.com> X-Sender: crb@quark X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:23:20 -0500 To: Chuck Robey From: "Christopher R. Bowman" Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? Cc: Amancio Hasty , Dan Moschuk , Matthew Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199903221821.KAA60269@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 04:18 PM 3/22/99 -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: >On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > >> >> Thats a good start , now if we get a few more companies to chip in >> who knows we may end up with a kick ass NFS implementation. >> >> Amancio >> >> > Interesting enough, a client that I do contract work for is willing to pay >> > me for 50 hours of time to fix up FreeBSD's NFS implementation. That's a >> > pretty big penny. >> > >> > I expect I'd be starting this mid-April. > >Maybe ... you know, I would be willing to contribute a one time shot, >say $100 (maybe more?), to a fund to fix nfs. I bet others would too. I >bet if such a fund were advertised, and a goal set, that commercial >interests would *very quickly* contribute. It's even possible that >maybe one other goal besides nfs could be gotten ... maybe making our >FS's stackable? wouldn't that be incredible? Put me down for some too ($100, maybe a little more). -------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com http://www.ChrisBowman.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 14:36: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from regret.globalserve.net (regret.globalserve.net [209.90.144.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8641152A3 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:35:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dm@regret.globalserve.net) Received: (from dm@localhost) by regret.globalserve.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA62692 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:45:35 GMT (envelope-from dm) Message-ID: <19990322184535.A62620@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:45:35 +0000 From: Dan Moschuk To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? References: <199903222152.QAA13105@cs.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199903222152.QAA13105@cs.rpi.edu>; from David E. Cross on Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 04:52:14PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Count me in for a donation of $500 to $750 for work on the NFS system. > > -- > David Cross I think people missed the point completely. Sooner or later, I would have begun to work on this on my own time; I love FreeBSD and I'm very slowly trying to show my appreciation by contributing to it. A company that I do a great deal of consulting for wants me to fix-up the NFS implementation on their behalf. I just found it incredible that they would be willing to pay me for 50 hours of work (multiply that by my 3 digit/hr consulting rate.. makes for a pretty penny) to fix up something that ultimately doesn't effect them one way or another. Regards, -- Dan Moschuk (TFreak!dm@globalserve.net) Senior Systems/Network Administrator Globalserve Communications Inc., a Primus Canada Company "If at first you don't succeed, redefine success" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 14:37:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A930A152F3 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id OAA29596; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id OAA01167; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:36:18 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id PAA19447; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:36:12 -0700 Message-ID: <36F6C5E4.72AF0D4B@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:36:20 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Robey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > Okay, I will donate $100 towards fixing NFS to whom do I send my check ? > > You cut so much context, Amancio, this'll just serve to confuse folks. > We don't, I think, need money offers (yet), and I don't think that's > going to be a problem, what we need is someone willing (and able) to > take the donations. Maybe someone on core? > > I am hopeless when it comes to money, I can't possibly do it, but don't > lets start the money offering until someone steps up and says their > willing to be responsible for keeping track of the loot. Perhaps we could get this added as a special item on the FreeBSDMall Donation page? I'd send in some $$$, too. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 14:40: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38F114DDA for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:40:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA25057; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:38:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:38:46 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903222238.OAA25057@apollo.backplane.com> To: Dan Moschuk Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? References: <199903222152.QAA13105@cs.rpi.edu> <19990322184535.A62620@globalserve.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I just found it incredible that they would be willing to pay me for 50 :hours of work (multiply that by my 3 digit/hr consulting rate.. makes for :a pretty penny) to fix up something that ultimately doesn't effect them one :way or another. : :Regards, :-- :Dan Moschuk (TFreak!dm@globalserve.net) :Senior Systems/Network Administrator :Globalserve Communications Inc., a Primus Canada Company :"If at first you don't succeed, redefine success" If it fixes what they need fixed, it would probably be worth every penny to them. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 14:42:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6107E15545 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:42:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA21975; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:41:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903222241.RAA21975@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:36:16 -0500 To: Matthew Dillon From: Dennis Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199903222045.MAA24353@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199903221711.MAA20551@etinc.com> <199903222019.PAA21360@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:45 PM 3/22/99 -0800, you wrote: > >:>:Dennis >:> >:> All PCI card chipsets implement internal read and write >:> DMA FIFO's. Thus a 64 bit PCI card can easily burst 64 bit >:> words over the PCI bus. If the processor on the card >:> itself cannot stuff the FIFO quickly enough to hold the burst >:> for a period longer then the size of the FIFO, it's no big deal >:> because the processor on the card can obviously pump data >:> sufficiently to handle the physical I/O it is supporting for >:> that card , and the FIFO is large enough such that the >:> shorter higher-speed burst on the PCI bus will be sufficient >:> enough to use the PCI bus bandwidth efficiently. What bandwidth >:> cannot be used by one card will certainly be used by another. >:> >:> This just isn't an issue. >:Shorter bursts are less efficient, which implies that 64bit PCI transfers >:can be not much better than 32bit with sustained bursts, which is >:my point. You could easily have a 64-bit pci card that was slower than >:(or the same as) a 32-bit one due to this factor. Im not arguing that it >:doesnt work, only that its not a cureall to the throughput problem. >: >:Dennis > > Dennis, please read my response more carefully and you will understand > why your concerns are unfounded. I will paraphrase: "The FIFOs are > large enough such that the burst is going to be relatively efficient > no matter what the PCI bus width and no matter how slow the card". > > The problem that is being solved here is not a card's ability to sustain > a long burst, but instead the bandwidth available on the PCI bus when > multiple cards are operating. There is no advantage to any single card > being able to do long sustained bursts on a faster PCI bus because they > are already limited to the speed physical media they were built to handle. > The requirement is for the card to be able to sustain a reasonably-sized > burst so the PCI bus's transactional overhead remains small verses the > actual data transfer. This is what the FIFO accomplishes. What i mean by "sustained" is more than 1 or 2 words...I believe that 32bit engines would have a problem doing single cycle transfers at 64bits...and that implies substantial setup overhead, more than double or triple, which significantly effects available bandwidth and device perfornance. I've done a lot of empirical testing and if you miss the burst performance really sucks wind. Controllers with external logic on the board, for example, often can't do single-cycle transfers and bus performance severely suffers. I dont know how you can say that it doesnt. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 14:45:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C4B85155C1 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:45:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 13502 invoked from network); 22 Mar 1999 22:45:19 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 1999 22:45:19 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:44:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anybody know a magic combo of 100mbit netbootable PCI cards? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I would like to netboot a couple machines, but I really want 100mbit, and I would really prefer PCI. Anybody know of a combo, or have a combo that would work? I'm a fan of DEC and Intel ethernet cards, but am using some 3com PCI gear with good results... Thanks in advance. I'd be willing to summarize and post if people will send me their answers directly, or would like copies of what I get... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 14:46:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E2F71559B; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:46:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id RAA17593; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:46:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:46:01 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org Subject: NAT/SKIP/MTU Message-ID: <19990322144600.A17340@orbit.flnet.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've run into ap roblem where Im attempting to do both NAT and SKIP on the same machine... However whenever the MTU of the internal (net 10) interface is less than 1500, packets are either dropped or never reassembled properly causing communication with a variety of internet hosts to be broken. SKIP alters the MTU to 1336 (I'm assuming to make space in the packet for the encryption overhead)... When it does this though, everything goes to hell. Has anyone else out there seen this problem and come up with a solution? Is this a FreeBSD networking issue, or is it a problem with NAT, or even worse, is this a problem with other hosts on the network not being able to cope with a different MTU? (I initially noticed this problem with travelocity, and expedia's web sites..) Thanks for any info! -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 15: 5:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C2015202 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:05:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA25219; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:04:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:04:36 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903222304.PAA25219@apollo.backplane.com> To: Dennis Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? References: <199903221711.MAA20551@etinc.com> <199903222019.PAA21360@etinc.com> <199903222241.RAA21975@etinc.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :>:Dennis :> :> Dennis, please read my response more carefully and you will understand :> why your concerns are unfounded. I will paraphrase: "The FIFOs are :> large enough such that the burst is going to be relatively efficient :> no matter what the PCI bus width and no matter how slow the card". :> :> The problem that is being solved here is not a card's ability to sustain :> a long burst, but instead the bandwidth available on the PCI bus when :> multiple cards are operating. There is no advantage to any single card :> being able to do long sustained bursts on a faster PCI bus because they :> are already limited to the speed physical media they were built to :handle. :> The requirement is for the card to be able to sustain a reasonably-sized :> burst so the PCI bus's transactional overhead remains small verses the :> actual data transfer. This is what the FIFO accomplishes. : :What i mean by "sustained" is more than 1 or 2 words...I believe that 32bit :engines would have a problem doing single cycle transfers at 64bits...and :that implies substantial setup overhead, more than double or triple, which :significantly effects available bandwidth and device perfornance. I've done :a lot of empirical testing and if you miss the burst performance really sucks :wind. Controllers with external logic on the board, for example, often :can't do :single-cycle transfers and bus performance severely suffers. I dont know how :you can say that it doesnt. : :Dennis Dennis, you are missing something fundamental. Do you know how a FIFO works? Do you know what a low and high water mark is? Do you know what a bus-matching FIFO is? Do you know how network or scsi master-bus DMA works? Concentrate on the FIFO part of my explanation. These are not software FIFOs. Maybe you are confused. These are hardware FIFOs. Do you know how low and high water marks work with FIFOs? Do you know what a data-pending-idle-timeout is? - Let me give you an example: With an IDLE PCI bus it is quite possible for a card doing DMA to wind up doing extremely inefficient single-word transfers do to the on-card physical data rate being relatively low ( aka a 10BaseT card ). But since this is an IDLE PCI bus, you don't care. If the PCI bus has additional load on it ... say from a 100BaseT card sitting in another slot, any DMA operations performed by the 10BaseT card get queued to the FIFO while the PCI bus is busy with the other card. As the PCI bus is loaded down more and more by additional cards or traffic, PCI bus latency causes the amount of pending data in the various cards FIFOs to grow, even on cards with slow processors, increasing the efficiency of the PCI bus because the cards start to do multi-word burst I/O of the data that has accumulated in the FIFOs. This is a self-stabilizing situation ( at least theoretically ). If the PCI burst limits are set properly, the worst case latency occurs when you have 5 PCI cards trying to do DMA simultaniously, and 4 of those cards are relatively low speed such that they manage to do only a few words per PCI bus grant despite the bus latencies being incured due to other card's DMA. In this case the fifth card sees worst-case operation: Around 16 cycles ( guessing, I don't have the spec on my lap ) of latency due to single-word transfers from the other four cards, and then 64 cycles or so worth of burst activity from the 5th ( high speed ) card. As you can see, it isn't terrible. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 15:11:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63DF4152AC for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:11:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA25297; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:10:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:10:52 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903222310.PAA25297@apollo.backplane.com> To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Dennis , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? References: <199903221711.MAA20551@etinc.com> <199903222019.PAA21360@etinc.com> <199903222241.RAA21975@etinc.com> <199903222304.PAA25219@apollo.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : limits are set properly, the worst case latency occurs when you have ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ worst case efficiency, not latency. Worst case latency is a totally different issue. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 15:18: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D585F14E6F for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:17:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA44002; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:16:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Chuck Robey Cc: Kevin Day , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:56:16 EST." Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:16:37 -0800 Message-ID: <44000.922144597@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'll be happy to accept donations at FreeBSD, Inc. just as I have been all along, but also be well aware of the fact that spending donations on NFS is probably the worst possible use of the money. Let's just look at all the "I'll donate some money!" calls so far: I've seen a total of $900 pledged and could probably even reasonably match this with existing funds 3 times over (whee! $3600!), all of which would just about pay for about one week of somebody's time at rock-bottom "I'm doing this just because I like you" hourly consulting rates. One week is enough time to perhaps understand the problems in detail, but hardly enough time to fix them. Again, assuming rock-bottom rates and somebody truly capable of fixing NFS-class problems on the job, it's an easy 90 days worth of work and that would be $36,000 in contractor fees. Even assuming a further rate reduction for quantity, being FreeBSD, etc. we're probably talking about at least $25K and a lot of whining from the contractor about how he's practically giving his time away at that rate. It'd be far more cost-effective, by comparison, to buy 5 nice machines at around $2000 a pop and send them to 5 developers who I wanted to guilt into the process of fixing NFS (and anything else I could think of). Even more cost-effective still to simply get some 3rd-party company to foot the bill, as appears to be on the way to happening now. In other words, by all means donate some cash to the project, but please don't expect me to spend it on NFS hacking - contract labor is about the worst thing, speaking from a bang-for-buck perspective, that I could spend the project's money on. Do you know how many thousands of dollars worth of work I've gotten, for example, for the price of two $89 network cards? :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 15:18:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70C414BD7 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:18:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA44016; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:17:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Dan Moschuk Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:45:35 GMT." <19990322184535.A62620@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:17:20 -0800 Message-ID: <44014.922144640@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I just found it incredible that they would be willing to pay me for 50 > hours of work (multiply that by my 3 digit/hr consulting rate.. makes for > a pretty penny) to fix up something that ultimately doesn't effect them one > way or another. I do too - please, by all means, strike this iron while it's hot! :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 15:18:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from boromir.vpop.net (dns1.vpop.net [206.117.147.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCF0E1547F for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:18:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mreimer@vpop.net) Received: from vpop.net (timberdoodle41.customers.uswest.net [207.224.253.41]) by boromir.vpop.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA00641; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F6D023.1925D6D5@vpop.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:20:03 -0800 From: Matthew Reimer Organization: VPOP Technologies, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Henrich , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Are you using the latest SKIP port? There was a bug a while back in which SKIP used the M_EOR bit in an mbuf to mark whether or not packets had been decrypted, and this was causing problems with large packets. But at this point NAT and SKIP won't cooperate on the same interface, because NAT (since it runs in userland) doesn't have access to mbufs (where SKIP keeps track of which packets have been encrypted). The best fix seems to be to convert SKIP to a userland program using DIVERT sockets. Hope this helps. Matt Charles Henrich wrote: > > I've run into ap roblem where Im attempting to do both NAT and SKIP on the > same machine... However whenever the MTU of the internal (net 10) interface is > less than 1500, packets are either dropped or never reassembled properly > causing communication with a variety of internet hosts to be broken. SKIP > alters the MTU to 1336 (I'm assuming to make space in the packet for the > encryption overhead)... When it does this though, everything goes to hell. > > Has anyone else out there seen this problem and come up with a solution? Is > this a FreeBSD networking issue, or is it a problem with NAT, or even worse, > is this a problem with other hosts on the network not being able to cope with > a different MTU? (I initially noticed this problem with travelocity, and > expedia's web sites..) > > Thanks for any info! > > -Crh > > Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com > > http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 16:34:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC49414D26 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:34:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA35035; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:30:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:30:31 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Kevin Day , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: <44000.922144597@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I'll be happy to accept donations at FreeBSD, Inc. just as I have been > all along, but also be well aware of the fact that spending donations > on NFS is probably the worst possible use of the money. > > Let's just look at all the "I'll donate some money!" calls so far: > I've seen a total of $900 pledged and could probably even reasonably > match this with existing funds 3 times over (whee! $3600!), all of > which would just about pay for about one week of somebody's time at > rock-bottom "I'm doing this just because I like you" hourly consulting > rates. One week is enough time to perhaps understand the problems in > detail, but hardly enough time to fix them. > > Again, assuming rock-bottom rates and somebody truly capable of fixing > NFS-class problems on the job, it's an easy 90 days worth of work and > that would be $36,000 in contractor fees. Even assuming a further > rate reduction for quantity, being FreeBSD, etc. we're probably > talking about at least $25K and a lot of whining from the contractor > about how he's practically giving his time away at that rate. OK. 1) The NFS problems have been with us a long while now, and while your methods *have* solved many problems, they haven't been able to tackle nfs, no matter how important it's been to all of us. 2) If the amount generated turns out to be too low, the funds can just be turned over (after publicly admitting that the fund-raising failed), and this would be an effective counter-argument to ever doing this again. 3) I personally think that $25,000 would very easily be raised, especially when companies using FreeBSD can make targeted donations towards a goal that they would very clearly benefit from (nfs). I think the amount that could be gathered in, say, one month will probably surprise everyone (I'm not trying to hold you to $25,000 here, because I think that might well be too small a guess). 4) This wouldn't even have to be completely restricted to nfs, but it would have to be restricted to a very small, well defined problem set, of general interest. The funds collected would have to be funnelled into a fund whose goals are not general, but specific to this effort. Jordan, in a few minutes, all those bucks were pledged, and companies (which would obviously have greater resources, and could be expected to dwarf individual contributions) didn't even get into the act. Your comment above seems to miss the fact that people only saw the comments for about one hour. If it's such a bad idea, wouldn't you like to see it permanently put to bed? If it fails just this once, I would personally jump on anyone else who ever proposed it. I think it has a great chance to succeed. Just make a very small, well defined goal set, and then clearly advertise on our web page how to contribute specifically towards that special fund (not a general purpose fund). > It'd be far more cost-effective, by comparison, to buy 5 nice machines > at around $2000 a pop and send them to 5 developers who I wanted to > guilt into the process of fixing NFS (and anything else I could think > of). Even more cost-effective still to simply get some 3rd-party > company to foot the bill, as appears to be on the way to happening > now. > > In other words, by all means donate some cash to the project, but > please don't expect me to spend it on NFS hacking - contract labor is > about the worst thing, speaking from a bang-for-buck perspective, that > I could spend the project's money on. Do you know how many thousands > of dollars worth of work I've gotten, for example, for the price of > two $89 network cards? :-) > > - Jordan > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 17:45:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lily.ezo.net (lily.ezo.net [206.102.130.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15DDA15314 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:45:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jflowers@ezo.net) Received: from crocus (c3-1d196.neo.rr.com [24.93.233.196]) by lily.ezo.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA04236; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:44:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301be74ce$d63efdd0$23b197ce@ezo.net> From: "Jim Flowers" To: "Matthew Reimer" , "Charles Henrich" , References: <36F6D023.1925D6D5@vpop.net> Subject: Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:45:30 -0500 Organization: EZNets, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Depending on what is wanted, SKIP and NAT will cooperate nicely on the same interface. SKIP can be used for tunneled traffic over a VPN while NAT is used for non-SKIP traffic. I have posted some how-tos on freebsd-security recently but the general idea is to include appropriate matching rules in ipfw to accept the SKIP related traffic prior to being diverted by the NAT rule. This can also be used to switch individual network hosts from SKIP to NAT and back by manipulating network host rules. ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Reimer To: Charles Henrich ; Sent: Monday, March 22, 1999 6:20 PM Subject: Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU > Are you using the latest SKIP port? There was a bug a while back in > which SKIP used the M_EOR bit in an mbuf to mark whether or not packets > had been decrypted, and this was causing problems with large packets. > > But at this point NAT and SKIP won't cooperate on the same interface, > because NAT (since it runs in userland) doesn't have access to mbufs > (where SKIP keeps track of which packets have been encrypted). The best > fix seems to be to convert SKIP to a userland program using DIVERT > sockets. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 18:53:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AAAC1530D for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:53:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA12111 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:53:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:53:14 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: understanding of scaled load average calculation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am trying to understand the calculation of digital decay contants used by process scheduler and ps command (see file kern_synch.c). I have read the web page "fixed-point arithmetic" at http://www.shadow.net/~yates/fp.htm. But I still could not figure out how FSHIFT and CCPU_SHIFT are chosen. The following comment in the source code confuses me: "The number of CPU ticks that map to a unique %age can be expressed by the formula (1/(2 ^ (FSHIFT-11)))." Where does this formula come from? "To estimate CCPU_SHIFT for exp(-1/20), the following formula was used: 1 - exp(-1/20) ~= 0.0487 ~= 0.0488 == 1 (fixed pt, *11* bits)." What does this mean? I do know that 11 fractional digit gives a resolution of 2 ^ (-11) = 0.00048828. The three digits 488 are the same. I did make a little progress in trying to understand this comment: If FSHIFT is 11, the maximum load average is about 1024. This is because cexp[i]*avg->ldavg[i] in routine loadav() (see file vm_meter.c) will overflow if the unscaled load average > 1024. I hope someone will help me out. Thanks a lot. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 19:17:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF0914DC8 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:17:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA26706; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:17:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:17:07 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903230317.TAA26706@apollo.backplane.com> To: Chuck Robey Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Kevin Day , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :3) I personally think that $25,000 would very easily be raised, :especially when companies using FreeBSD can make targeted donations :towards a goal that they would very clearly benefit from (nfs). I think :the amount that could be gathered in, say, one month will probably :surprise everyone (I'm not trying to hold you to $25,000 here, because I :think that might well be too small a guess). : :4) This wouldn't even have to be completely restricted to nfs, but it :would have to be restricted to a very small, well defined problem set, :of general interest. The funds collected would have to be funnelled :into a fund whose goals are not general, but specific to this effort. It isn't quite so easy. It's one thing to raise money to hire a programmer familiar enough with the code to be able to fix the problems. *Finding* that programmer is a whole different deal, and if you make a mistake that's $25K down the drain. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 19:22:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 934A8151C1 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:22:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.3/8.8.2) id VAA01045; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:20:38 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990322212038.A1038@Denninger.Net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:20:38 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Matthew Dillon , Chuck Robey Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Kevin Day , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? References: <199903230317.TAA26706@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199903230317.TAA26706@apollo.backplane.com>; from Matthew Dillon on Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 07:17:07PM -0800 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 07:17:07PM -0800, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :3) I personally think that $25,000 would very easily be raised, > :especially when companies using FreeBSD can make targeted donations > :towards a goal that they would very clearly benefit from (nfs). I think > :the amount that could be gathered in, say, one month will probably > :surprise everyone (I'm not trying to hold you to $25,000 here, because I > :think that might well be too small a guess). > : > :4) This wouldn't even have to be completely restricted to nfs, but it > :would have to be restricted to a very small, well defined problem set, > :of general interest. The funds collected would have to be funnelled > :into a fund whose goals are not general, but specific to this effort. > > It isn't quite so easy. It's one thing to raise money to hire > a programmer familiar enough with the code to be able to fix the > problems. *Finding* that programmer is a whole different deal, and > if you make a mistake that's $25K down the drain. > > -Matt Sure it is Matt. Contingent contract, payable only on final delivery of the fixes. No fix, no pay, and put a timeline on the job. Someone who knows the code well enough to be able to commit to doing this should also be willing to take that gig. Its a short-term consulting contract anyway - why not do it this way? I've done this kind of work before. If I know that I can deliver the goodies then agreeing to those kind of terms doesn't bother me at all. One thing that absolutely will do is keep the yahoos from knocking at the door on this one. - -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 19:27:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0051814DA7 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:27:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 17514 invoked by uid 1001); 23 Mar 1999 03:27:09 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990322212038.A1038@Denninger.Net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:27:09 -0500 (EST) X-Face: *0^4Iw) To: Karl Denninger Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Kevin Day , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Matthew Dillon , Chuck Robey Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-Mar-99 Karl Denninger wrote: > On Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 07:17:07PM -0800, Matthew Dillon wrote: >> :3) I personally think that $25,000 would very easily be raised, >> :especially when companies using FreeBSD can make targeted donations >> :towards a goal that they would very clearly benefit from (nfs). I think >> :the amount that could be gathered in, say, one month will probably >> :surprise everyone (I'm not trying to hold you to $25,000 here, because I >> :think that might well be too small a guess). >> : >> :4) This wouldn't even have to be completely restricted to nfs, but it >> :would have to be restricted to a very small, well defined problem set, >> :of general interest. The funds collected would have to be funnelled >> :into a fund whose goals are not general, but specific to this effort. >> >> It isn't quite so easy. It's one thing to raise money to hire >> a programmer familiar enough with the code to be able to fix the >> problems. *Finding* that programmer is a whole different deal, and >> if you make a mistake that's $25K down the drain. >> >> -Matt > > Sure it is Matt. > > Contingent contract, payable only on final delivery of the fixes. > > No fix, no pay, and put a timeline on the job. > > Someone who knows the code well enough to be able to commit to doing this > should also be willing to take that gig. Its a short-term consulting > contract anyway - why not do it this way? > > I've done this kind of work before. If I know that I can deliver the > goodies then agreeing to those kind of terms doesn't bother me at all. > > One thing that absolutely will do is keep the yahoos from knocking at the > door on this one. I've seen enough people that can BS their way into a position, that know quite a bit about what their talking about and turn out to make a mess out of things you don't discover for months, if not years later. If I'd seen it only once, I wouldn't be commenting about it here. Unfortunately I've seen it dozens of times, and every single one of them has been brought on by this same 'rose colored glasses' view of the situation at hand. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 19:27:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C539814FB4 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:27:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13586; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:25:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:25:23 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Matthew Dillon Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Kevin Day , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: <199903230317.TAA26706@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :3) I personally think that $25,000 would very easily be raised, > :especially when companies using FreeBSD can make targeted donations > :towards a goal that they would very clearly benefit from (nfs). I think > :the amount that could be gathered in, say, one month will probably > :surprise everyone (I'm not trying to hold you to $25,000 here, because I > :think that might well be too small a guess). > : > :4) This wouldn't even have to be completely restricted to nfs, but it > :would have to be restricted to a very small, well defined problem set, > :of general interest. The funds collected would have to be funnelled > :into a fund whose goals are not general, but specific to this effort. > > It isn't quite so easy. It's one thing to raise money to hire > a programmer familiar enough with the code to be able to fix the > problems. *Finding* that programmer is a whole different deal, and > if you make a mistake that's $25K down the drain. I'm not sure he'd be available, but are you saying that if he had time, and we were able to offer enough, McKusick couldn't do it? He's not the only one I'd have sufficient faith in (read that, if they failed, I'd feel it was well worth the risk). I'd kinda lke to pay Heidemann to implement stackable filesystems here. You see what I mean. This isn't something we could do a lot (there is a limit to how much money could be collected this way) but I think once or twice could be done, and with potential terrific effect. I think both John Heidemann and Kirk McKusick would like to do it (although I couldn't guess at their current calendar commitments). I don't know how much it'd cost us ... > > -Matt > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 19:27:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B38B1536E for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:27:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA26842; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:27:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:27:11 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903230327.TAA26842@apollo.backplane.com> To: Karl Denninger Cc: Chuck Robey , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Kevin Day , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? References: <199903230317.TAA26706@apollo.backplane.com> <19990322212038.A1038@Denninger.Net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :Sure it is Matt. : :Contingent contract, payable only on final delivery of the fixes. : :No fix, no pay, and put a timeline on the job. : :Someone who knows the code well enough to be able to commit to doing this :should also be willing to take that gig. Its a short-term consulting :contract anyway - why not do it this way? For some jobs, this would be reasonable. For NFS, there is virtually no way to prove out the fixes. I've been messing with NFS for the last month. I have a machine dedicated to running test scripts virtually 24 hours a day. The first test script caught 3 bugs. The second test script caught another bug, the third test script caught three more bugs. The first test script did not catch any of the bugs #2 and #3 scripts caught. So what happens when the guy we hire finds and fixes 6 serious bugs, but 4 more pop out of the wood work a month later ? I could go on. :Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Web: fathers.denninger.net -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 19:34:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB80F1533C for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:34:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA60790; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:35:31 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <44000.922144597@zippy.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:56:16 EST." Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:34:21 -0500 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? Cc: dm@globalserve.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 3:16 PM -0800 3/22/99, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I'll be happy to accept donations at FreeBSD, Inc. just as I have > been all along, but also be well aware of the fact that spending > donations on NFS is probably the worst possible use of the money. It depends on the results. If we turned FreeBSD into a very reliable platform for serving NFS, it could be well worth it. > Let's just look at all the "I'll donate some money!" calls so far: > I've seen a total of $900 pledged in about six hours... > Again, assuming rock-bottom rates and somebody truly capable of > fixing NFS-class problems on the job, it's an easy 90 days worth > of work and that would be $36,000 in contractor fees. Indeed. And here we have a company who is apparently willing to pay a consultant for 50 hours of that time. Perhaps it *would* be a very good use of money (our money -- those who would donate) to pay for some more of his time, *right now*, if he is already looking at it, so the job could be "done right" and in a timely fashion. And if we're lucky, we might have this new level of NFS stability in time for release 3.2, or at least in the STABLE tree before September. > It'd be far more cost-effective, by comparison, to buy 5 nice > machines at around $2000 a pop and send them to 5 developers who > I wanted to guilt into the process of fixing NFS (and anything > else I could think of). Even more cost-effective still to simply > get some 3rd-party company to foot the bill, as appears to be on > the way to happening now. I think you underestimate how much of a "mild irritant" this is to many people using freebsd, and how uninteresting it is to work on NFS. If you do think the above would work, then why is it that we have a thread titled "NFS - will it ever be fixed?". NFS is not cutting-edge technology, and it is not new to FreeBSD 3.0. FreeBSD has managed to go quite awhile without "guilting" anyone into doing a complete job of fixing NFS. Besides, if this works out right we should be able to guilt Dan into donating 10-20 hours of his own time, thus making it even more affordable for the rest of us... :-) --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 19:40:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8783F151C1 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:40:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA26924; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:40:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:40:26 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903230340.TAA26924@apollo.backplane.com> To: Chuck Robey Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Kevin Day , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :I'm not sure he'd be available, but are you saying that if he had time, :and we were able to offer enough, McKusick couldn't do it? He's not the :only one I'd have sufficient faith in (read that, if they failed, I'd :feel it was well worth the risk). I'd kinda lke to pay Heidemann to :implement stackable filesystems here. You see what I mean. This isn't :something we could do a lot (there is a limit to how much money could be :collected this way) but I think once or twice could be done, and with :potential terrific effect. I think both John Heidemann and Kirk :McKusick would like to do it (although I couldn't guess at their current :calendar commitments). I don't know how much it'd cost us ... Well, you could ask Kirk, but I don't think he'd be interested. I can think of four, possibly five people that could do this, but I can't think of a single one that has the time. We are talking at least 2 months worth of work and probably more for someone who already knows the code, and 4 months of work for someone who doesn't. $25K may seem like a lot of money, but not for 2+ months of work without any guarentee of payment. :> :> -Matt :> :> : :----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- :Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data :chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. :213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | :Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) :(301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). :----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- : : : : : Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 19:53:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9882914D1C for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:53:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA44957; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:52:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Chuck Robey Cc: Kevin Day , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:30:31 EST." Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:52:19 -0800 Message-ID: <44955.922161139@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1) The NFS problems have been with us a long while now, and while your > methods *have* solved many problems, they haven't been able to tackle > nfs, no matter how important it's been to all of us. I'm sorry, but this is a false premise arising from having too little information (which, in retrospect, you couldn't have had so don't feel bad about it). My "methods", which I have a way of adapting to fit the circumstances more often than not, are not merely restricted to the small material donations which bring in lots of volunteer hours, those are simply one of the bigger bang-for-buck types of activities I felt compelled to call attention to when talking about $100 and $500 donations, as various people were doing. I've also had pledges of $25K and more to "fix NFS", all tossed onto the table at various times by various large corporate interests who shall remain nameless, and I searched rather unsuccessfully for a programmer truly capable of doing the job. A Matt points out, you don't just want to blow $25K, the results have got to work if you want to maintain any credibility at all. Even if you arrange it as a "do it first, pay later" scenario, things get very sticky if the system is not "fixed enough" for the end-client yet the programmer feels they've fixed this and that and the other thing in NFS and that should be enough for $25K since he has another contract coming up, etc. With a very vague and non-specific mandate like "fix NFS", that's exactly what's likely to happen and I never got much in the way of clarification from the end-clients, who weren't all that sure either. I'd point to some number of PRs and say "Those? If those are fixed, that will signify adequate completion?" and they'd say "Well, erm, that and whatever else is broken, yeah." (oy!). Since I never did find anyone both capable and available at the same time, it was somewhat of a moot point anyway so I never really pushed them to define the reqs more thoroughly since I'd have just been wasting their time in the long run. The fact is, neither I nor the clients really know the full extent of the "NFS bugs" right now, it being more the case that somebody needs to go in there and just wrestle with it until it stops thrashing, finding and fixing whatever bugs there are along the way. That's either a very expensive contractor (what the other guy was suggesting has got to be at least $50K worth of billables to this anonymous good-samaritan company), a full-time employee (which is still way outta our league with current donation levels) or some really cool volunteer with lots of time and energy on his hands. I'm not going to hold my breath. :) Oh yeah, and Kirk McKusick was also one of the first people I asked when someone came sniffing around with a check in their hand. He flat-out refused to let his life be invaded by NFS problems, no matter how much $$$ was being waved around. He's clearly even smarter than most people think. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 19:57: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6F9814C39 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:56:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13636; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:54:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:54:30 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Matthew Dillon Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Kevin Day , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: <199903230340.TAA26924@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > : > :I'm not sure he'd be available, but are you saying that if he had time, > :and we were able to offer enough, McKusick couldn't do it? He's not the > :only one I'd have sufficient faith in (read that, if they failed, I'd > :feel it was well worth the risk). I'd kinda lke to pay Heidemann to > :implement stackable filesystems here. You see what I mean. This isn't > :something we could do a lot (there is a limit to how much money could be > :collected this way) but I think once or twice could be done, and with > :potential terrific effect. I think both John Heidemann and Kirk > :McKusick would like to do it (although I couldn't guess at their current > :calendar commitments). I don't know how much it'd cost us ... > > Well, you could ask Kirk, but I don't think he'd be interested. > > I can think of four, possibly five people that could do this, but I > can't think of a single one that has the time. We are talking at > least 2 months worth of work and probably more for someone who already > knows the code, and 4 months of work for someone who doesn't. $25K > may seem like a lot of money, but not for 2+ months of work without > any guarentee of payment. Where did you read "without any guarentee of payment" from? Not me! With guys like that, I would pay for their time. They know who they're dealing with, and you know darn well that if they failed, (1) they tried as hard as they could and (2) no one could have done better. You have to have some ethics here, and try to act like a reasonable person. Neither of those guys are going to cheat anybody, and both would work just as hard as they could on this; you know very well they wouldn't want to report failure to us. As far as when, I said I didn't know their calendar, but being willing to wait some would be a very good idea. Wanting it done RIGHT NOW is being childish. Heck, this summer *I'd* want to do it, but I have neither their talent nor their reputation. I couldn't hope for such a deal. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 20:51:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 025531523C for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:51:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 22660 invoked from network); 23 Mar 1999 04:50:41 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 1999 04:50:41 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id XAA00449; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:50:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903230450.XAA00449@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: beyond 32 signals In-Reply-To: <199903220714.CAA28422@cs.rpi.edu> from "David E. Cross" at "Mar 22, 99 02:14:45 am" To: crossd@cs.rpi.edu (David E. Cross) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:50:40 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David E. Cross said: > I have periodically poked arround with moving FreeBSD beyond 32 signals. > The current idea that wanders through my head every few months or so is > to create a seperate set of signal routines (sigaction() and friends) > for handling and registering signals (all new programs would be compiled with > the newer version (new syscall #), but old programs continue to work. The > problem I have come across is sigcontext (a wonderfully usefull structure) > has a in for the signal mask. I cannot figure out a way to get arround this > without having 2 seperate signal processing systems (I really would like > to avoid that. Anyone have any ideas on this? > Look at what the NetBSD guys did, and figure out if it is applicable to FreeBSD's applications. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 22 23:34:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.skylink.it (ns.skylink.it [194.177.113.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E09D14D6D for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:34:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hibma@skylink.it) Received: from heidi.plazza.it (va-168.skylink.it [194.177.113.168]) by ns.skylink.it (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08555 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:32:30 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost.plazza.it [127.0.0.1]) by heidi.plazza.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA00908 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:42:43 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:42:43 +0100 (CET) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@heidi.plazza.it Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: scheduling a function call from int routines Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I want to schedule a function call from an interrupt routine. How do I do that? timeout? As in, a USB returns in an interrupt the message the fact that the connection status of one of the ports or suspend status has changed. I cannot start checking the ports from that interrupt routine, because I need to transfer data to the device to make that work. thanks. Nick Hibma FreeBSD USB project -- The above are strictly my own opinions and not my employer's. e-mail: n_hibma@freebsd.org home page: http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl mailing list: usb-bsd@egroups.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 0: 4:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1F8B14D2C for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:04:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA28018; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:04:01 +0200 (EET) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:04:01 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Dennis Cc: Mike Smith , Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-Reply-To: <199903221711.MAA20551@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Dennis wrote: > At 06:00 PM 3/21/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >> At 12:13 PM 3/21/99 -0800, you wrote: > >> > > >> >Hmm.... > >> >Does anyone know when the faster PCI busses (64bits or 66MHz PCI clock > rate) > >> >are going to be availabe ? > >> > >> The "availability" of 66Mhz busses is almost moot. Making ASICs work at > 33mhz > >> is a chore....66mhz is a waze off. > > > >That's close, but several of the major ASIC vendors were (or were > >claiming to be) sampling devices with 66MHz PCI macrocells the last time > >I looked. > > Any names? the vendors will be few, I think, for awhile. > Uhhh.... * The PPC106 (PPC chipset) supports 66Mhz PCI * The PPC8240 supports 66Mhz PCI * Sun UltraAX motherboards have it * S3 chips have supported AGP/66Mhz PCI for about a year now at least. * ATI supports 66Mhz PCI * Digital^H^H^H^H^H^H^HIntel PCI-PCI bridges support it As for ASICs & FPGAs, everybody has had a PCI core for a while now. At least everybody had it year ago. I'd say the only thing that keeps 66Mhz&|64bit PCI from being more widely used is the lack of these features in PC motherboards. Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 3:41:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from excalibur.oceanis.net (ns.dotcom.fr [195.154.74.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5C8614C2E for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 03:41:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pixel@excalibur.oceanis.net) Received: (from pixel@localhost) by excalibur.oceanis.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA28691; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:40:26 GMT From: Emmanuel DELOGET Message-Id: <199903231140.LAA28691@excalibur.oceanis.net> Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: from Chuck Robey at "Mar 22, 1999 10:54:30 pm" To: chuckr@mat.net (Chuck Robey) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:40:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers Mail List) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As the well known Chuck Robey said... ->On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: -> ->> : ->> :I'm not sure he'd be available, but are you saying that if he had time, ->> :and we were able to offer enough, McKusick couldn't do it? He's not the ->> :only one I'd have sufficient faith in (read that, if they failed, I'd ->> :feel it was well worth the risk). I'd kinda lke to pay Heidemann to ->> :implement stackable filesystems here. You see what I mean. This isn't ->> :something we could do a lot (there is a limit to how much money could be ->> :collected this way) but I think once or twice could be done, and with ->> :potential terrific effect. I think both John Heidemann and Kirk ->> :McKusick would like to do it (although I couldn't guess at their current ->> :calendar commitments). I don't know how much it'd cost us ... ->> ->> Well, you could ask Kirk, but I don't think he'd be interested. ->> ->> I can think of four, possibly five people that could do this, but I ->> can't think of a single one that has the time. We are talking at ->> least 2 months worth of work and probably more for someone who already ->> knows the code, and 4 months of work for someone who doesn't. $25K ->> may seem like a lot of money, but not for 2+ months of work without ->> any guarentee of payment. -> ->Where did you read "without any guarentee of payment" from? Not me! ->With guys like that, I would pay for their time. They know who they're ->dealing with, and you know darn well that if they failed, (1) they tried ->as hard as they could and (2) no one could have done better. You have ->to have some ethics here, and try to act like a reasonable person. ->Neither of those guys are going to cheat anybody, and both would work ->just as hard as they could on this; you know very well they wouldn't ->want to report failure to us. -> ->As far as when, I said I didn't know their calendar, but being willing ->to wait some would be a very good idea. Wanting it done RIGHT NOW is ->being childish. -> ->Heck, this summer *I'd* want to do it, but I have neither their talent ->nor their reputation. I couldn't hope for such a deal. -> Hey... I think I'm dreaming. You'd pay to have this NFS stuff fixed ?!?!!? I don't think this fits very well with the spirit of a free OS. Perhaps I'm wrong, but, if you pay someone (even McKusick) to do this work, you may enter in a new land, where committers would want to be paid to fix up little things. This is crazy. Perhaps we'll have a 'letter to FreeBSD hobbyists' in some days that woul say : "Some poeple spend hard time to work on this really great piece of software. These poeple cannot work for nothing, that's why you must buy FreeBSD. If you do not pay FreeBSD, you just steal hours of hard and expensive work." This sound like another old letter that a guy in Redmond (tm ?) wrote years ago. Do we have to add these lines to the FreeBSD licence ? -- ____________________________________________________________________ Emmanuel DELOGET [pixel] pixel@{dotcom.fr,epita.fr} ---- DotCom SA -------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 4:11:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 155EC152D7 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 04:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10PQ0o-0002FT-00; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:10:26 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exctracting stuff from PRs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:13:06 EST." Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:10:26 +0200 Message-ID: <8646.922191026@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:13:06 EST, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > When I went to use 'send-pr' for a problem, I was surprised that > send-pr itself does not have a parameter for "sample file" or > some-such. If it did, then you would have some control of what > format that enclosure arrived in. It's easy to create your own template. From within the editor invoked by send-pr, simply save a copy of the default file to ~/.pr_template or whatever. Now use that file as a template when you start composing a new message. An MUA like MH makes this particularly easy, but I imagine the others can be taught to use a text file as an e-mail template as well. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 4:26:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from eltex.ru (eltex-spiiras.nw.ru [195.19.204.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953F414DE7 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 04:26:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from antuan@eltex.ru) Received: from gadget.eltex.ru (root@gadget.eltex.ru [195.19.198.14]) by eltex.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA23078 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:25:36 +0300 (MSK) Received: by gadget.eltex.ru (ssmtp TIS-0.5alpha, 19 Oct 1998); Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:25:19 +0300 Received: from undisclosed-intranet-sender id xma009332; Tue, 23 Mar 99 15:25:03 +0300 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:29:20 +0300 (MSK) From: Antuan Avdioukhine To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: single o dual diskette boot? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG People! Is there any FAQ or "how-to" about producing single-floppy-boot disk for FreeBSD? Some info I'd found in mailing list archives, but it is about 3.x ELF kernel. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 4:30:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from titan.metropolitan.at (unknown [195.212.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887A914CE0 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 04:30:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mladavac@metropolitan.at) Received: by TITAN with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:32:42 +0100 Message-ID: <97A8CA5BF490D211A94F0000F6C2E55D09756B@s-lmh-wi-900.corpnet.at> From: Ladavac Marino To: 'Emmanuel DELOGET' , chuckr@mat.net Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:27:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Emmanuel DELOGET [SMTP:pixel@DotCom.FR] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 12:40 PM > To: chuckr@mat.net > Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com; toasty@home.dragondata.com; > hasty@rah.star-gate.com; dm@globalserve.net; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? > > Hey... I think I'm dreaming. You'd pay to have this NFS stuff > fixed ?!?!!? I don't think this fits very well with the spirit > of a free OS. Perhaps I'm wrong, but, if you pay someone (even > McKusick) to do this work, you may enter in a new land, where > committers would want to be paid to fix up little things. This > is crazy. Perhaps we'll have a 'letter to FreeBSD hobbyists' in > some days that woul say : [ML] Please, take off those pink colored glasses--that's better now. > "Some poeple spend hard time to work on this really great > piece of software. These poeple cannot work for nothing, > that's why you must buy FreeBSD. If you do not pay FreeBSD, > you just steal hours of hard and expensive work." [ML] This does not apply to FreeBSD, but it does apply to any piece of software that is being sold as such. The reason why this does not apply to FreeBSD is at least twofold: there are two major sources of new development for a system that is as freely given away as FreeBSD--academia, and individuals who are hoping to improve their market position as consultants or add-on software vendors by having a stable platform to build upon. You will notice that the people from academia are usually full-time paid by taxpayer money, and are required by law to release their work to general public. This is the source of new development, because research is extremely high-skilled labor intensive and hence expensive. However, it is somewhat illusory to expect that someone on academic payroll will be allowed to work on snow from yesteryear (well, previous decade is more like it) such as NFS fixes. If you can get your Minister of Science and Education to fund such a project, then you have way better connections than I do to mine. This is where the interested individuals come into picture: they are willing to invest time and money (well, both are equivalent, time being money) in order to fix things that either they find personally interesting or are likely to generate more revenue than the amount invested. Now, NFS has some pretty impressive dragons in hiding, and it takes some time to expunge them all, even for a highly skilled dragon slayer--and a person needs to pay the bills in the meantime, not to mention eat. Then, there come the material costs for machine farm needed for testing (it does not really help if FreeBSD-to-FreeBSD NFS is absolutely stable while at the same time FreeBSD-to- doesn't work at all--agreed, not likely but still possible outcome). I cannot speak for the others, but I personally could only work on NFS in my "copious free time" between building a house and working overtime in order to afford a house in the first place--so, if you can wait another five years, perhaps I will be finished with NFS by then. I have a hunch that the others have similar problems. And this leaves us with help for hire or something like X-Consortium, a body formed by a number of interested companies willing to gather funds for common development (and hire full-time employees). Not pink, not very idealistic, but this is the way the world seems to be from my perspective (YMMV:) /Marino > This sound like another old letter that a guy in Redmond (tm ?) > wrote years ago. > > Do we have to add these lines to the FreeBSD licence ? > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > Emmanuel DELOGET [pixel] pixel@{dotcom.fr,epita.fr} ---- DotCom SA > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 5: 9:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B11EB14C2B for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 05:09:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10PQvD-0002oa-0K for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:08:44 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from support-3.uk.radan.com (support-3 [193.114.228.220]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id NAA01358 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:08:40 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com by support-3.uk.radan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA05722; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:08:37 GMT Message-ID: <36F79238.5FC1DA7C@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:08:08 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problem with fork() in 3.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Firstly, my apologies if this is an inappropriate question to post here, but I have asked in -questions and received no response and I am completely stumped. If anyone could spare a couple of minutes to look at this for me I would be very grateful (my learning curve is currently flat-lining). I have been learning about Inter Process Comms and have written the 2 progs included below. It all worked under 2.2.8 however when I u/g to 3.1-R (from the CD) it no longer works :-(. Under 2.2.8 the output was: % demo RESULT! - Circumference-106.814150 % however, under 3.1 this happens: % demo RESULT! - % The string returned from d2c doesn't appear. This happens (in 3.1) with both the 2.2.8 compiled progs (aout) and the 3.1 compiled progs (ELF). If I add ``sleep(5)'' to both progs ``ps'' confirms that the exec()'d program (d2c) is running. Someone else posted a message to -questions with exactly the same problem using rfork(). FWIW, as well as working under 2.2.8, these programs run properly under SunOS 4.1.3. BTW. I realize that this code is not good enough for real-world applications but, as I said, I'm learning so starting simple seems that best way. TIA for your time. -----file - demo.c-------- #include #include #include #include #include #include #include void main() { int fd[2]; int df[2]; pid_t pid; char input[BUFSIZ], result[BUFSIZ]; if (pipe(fd) < 0) { perror("pipe failed"); exit(EXIT_FAILURE); } if (pipe(df) < 0) { perror("pipe failed"); exit(EXIT_FAILURE); } if ((pid = fork()) < 0) { perror("fork failed"); exit(EXIT_FAILURE); } if (pid > 0) /* parent */ { close(fd[0]); close(df[1]); read(df[0], input, BUFSIZ - 1); if (strstr(input, "Diameter")) write(fd[1], "34\n", 3); read(df[0], result, BUFSIZ - 1); fprintf(stderr, "RESULT! - %s\n", result); close(fd[1]); close(df[0]); } else { /* child */ if (fd[0] != STDIN_FILENO) { if (dup2(fd[0], STDIN_FILENO) != STDIN_FILENO) { perror("dup2 fd[0] failed"); exit(EXIT_FAILURE); } } if (df[1] != STDOUT_FILENO) { if (dup2(df[1], STDOUT_FILENO) != STDOUT_FILENO) { perror("dup2 df[1] failed"); exit(EXIT_FAILURE); } } close(fd[1]); close(df[0]); if (execvp("./d2c", NULL) < 0) { perror("execvp failed"); exit(EXIT_FAILURE); } close(fd[0]); /* Don't think these are really needed */ close(df[1]); /* as execvp() only returns on failure */ /* & then exit() will be called above */ } } -----file - d2c.c---------- #include #include #include #define PI 3.141592653 int main(void) { double circ; char input[BUFSIZ]; printf("%s", "Diameter: "); fflush(stdout); fgets(input, BUFSIZ-1, stdin); circ = atof(input) * PI; printf("Circumference-%f\n", circ); fflush(stdout); return(0); } ----------------------------------- -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 5:24:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from eltex.ru (eltex-spiiras.nw.ru [195.19.204.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C50714C32 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 05:24:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from antuan@eltex.ru) Received: from gadget.eltex.ru (root@gadget.eltex.ru [195.19.198.14]) by eltex.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA23388; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:24:08 +0300 (MSK) Received: by gadget.eltex.ru (ssmtp TIS-0.5alpha, 19 Oct 1998); Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:23:50 +0300 Received: from undisclosed-intranet-sender id xma010045; Tue, 23 Mar 99 16:23:37 +0300 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:27:45 +0300 (MSK) From: Antuan Avdioukhine To: George Morgan Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: single o dual diskette boot? In-Reply-To: <199903231244.HAA05254@sable.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, George Morgan wrote: > > People! Is there any FAQ or "how-to" about producing single-floppy-boot > > disk for FreeBSD? Some info I'd found in mailing list archives, but it is > > about 3.x ELF kernel. > In either case you need to use a utillity to write a raw disk image to > a disk. I've seen it done with "dd" in UNIX and "rawrite.exe" or > "fdimage.exe" in DOS or Windows 95. In order to make a single > bootable disk in 3.1 or later (might be 3.0 also) you need a 2.88MB > floppy since that is the space required for the single disk floppy. > (that's why most people use two) Here are some steps: [...] > I think that's it. You can also check the FreeBSD handbook at > http://www.freebsd.org I thing I was not too clear to explain my problem... I know how to put an image to disk. ;-) Problem is how to _build_ floppy with my own kernel and environment? I. e. how to make valid kernel, how to learn it to ask next floppie and so forth. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 6:22:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.wan (trltech.demon.co.uk [194.222.7.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDAD714C14 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:22:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Received: from trltech.co.uk (rdls.dhcp.sw.wan [192.9.201.75]) by ns.wan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17948; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:21:05 GMT (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Message-ID: <36F7A395.348DA775@trltech.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:22:13 +0000 From: Richard Smith Reply-To: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk Organization: http://www.trltech.co.uk/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem with fork() in 3.1 References: <36F79238.5FC1DA7C@uk.radan.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Ovens wrote: [big snip] > if (execvp("./d2c", NULL) < 0) Noticed any d2c.core files lying around? ;-) Looks like you can't use NULL for execvp parameter 2. Richard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 7:20:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from geek.grf.ov.com (geek.grf.ov.com [192.251.86.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB2FE14E89 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:20:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@threespace.com) Received: from pebbles (pebbles.cam.veritas.com [166.98.49.16]) by geek.grf.ov.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA28654 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:20:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903231520.KAA28654@geek.grf.ov.com> X-Sender: ksmm@mail.cybercom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:07:37 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: <199903222152.QAA13105@cs.rpi.edu> References: <199903222147.PAA16729@home.dragondata.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is great! Now that we've got people volunteering hundreds/thousands of dollars for work on the NFS project, I'm willing to start working full-time on it. I'm going to go buy a book on C programming after which I'll send the P.O. Box for you to mail me the money. Uh, by the way, can somebody tell me what NFS is? :-/ --K.S. At 04:52 PM 3/22/99 , David E. Cross wrote: Count me in for a donation of $500 to $750 for work on the NFS system. -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 7:31:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D45154B1 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:31:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id AAA07030; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:31:17 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36F7A937.7B337F93@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:46:15 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Antuan Avdioukhine Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: single o dual diskette boot? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ask -mobile. Antuan Avdioukhine wrote: > > People! Is there any FAQ or "how-to" about producing single-floppy-boot > disk for FreeBSD? Some info I'd found in mailing list archives, but it is > about 3.x ELF kernel. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Someone's trying to hack into our server." "Wow... How flattering!" "I know. There must be some mistake." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 9:46:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9F9153B6 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:46:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12109; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:45:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id LAA07017; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:45:26 -0600 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id LAA10518; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:45:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:45:26 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199903231745.LAA10518@free.pcs> To: mladavac@metropolitan.at, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-hackers In-Reply-To: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: > You will notice that the people from academia are usually >full-time paid by taxpayer money, and are required by law to release >their work to general public. This is the source of new development, >because research is extremely high-skilled labor intensive and hence >expensive. However, it is somewhat illusory to expect that someone on >academic payroll will be allowed to work on snow from yesteryear (well, >previous decade is more like it) such as NFS fixes. If you can get your >Minister of Science and Education to fund such a project, then you have >way better connections than I do to mine. Heh, that's pretty accurate. About the only thing that you can get your Research Lead to authorize funds for is _new_ research. Not fixing old problems (uninteresting, it's just "engineering"), and not "replicating" someone elses's work (quite unfortunate attitude, that). I once brought up the idea of working on something like the equivalent of AFS for FreeBSD to one of my professors, and his response was that it was not research; it was just an implementation. Now, designing/implementing something like an "NFSv4", might be considered research, but probably would be at cross purposes with FreeBSD's goals. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 10: 2:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57D2E1538E for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:02:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id NAA09227; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:02:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:02:21 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: Jim Flowers Cc: Matthew Reimer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU Message-ID: <19990323100221.D8398@orbit.flnet.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jim Flowers , Matthew Reimer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <36F6D023.1925D6D5@vpop.net> <001301be74ce$d63efdd0$23b197ce@ezo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <001301be74ce$d63efdd0$23b197ce@ezo.net>; from Jim Flowers on Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 08:45:30PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On the subject of Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU, Jim Flowers stated: > Depending on what is wanted, SKIP and NAT will cooperate nicely on the same > interface. SKIP can be used for tunneled traffic over a VPN while NAT is > used for non-SKIP traffic. I have posted some how-tos on freebsd-security > recently but the general idea is to include appropriate matching rules in > ipfw to accept the SKIP related traffic prior to being diverted by the NAT > rule. This can also be used to switch individual network hosts from SKIP to > NAT and back by manipulating network host rules. The problems I'm seeing are apparently related to the fact that SKIP alters the mtu on the internal interface... However if I use the tun devices for skip it shouldnt be a problem, I'll search through the mailling lists for your write-ups, thanks! Here's the wacky situation that I'm running into: 10.x --> fxp0 [NATD] fxp1 <-- www.travelocity.com If I alter the MTU on the fxp0 interface (natd is on fxp1) connections to travelocity fail work, then no bulk data exchange works.. The connection eventually times out and drops. This also occurs with a bunch other sites as well. My first thought was to blame the FreeBSD internal framentation handling code between fxp1/fxp0, but unless there's something *really* wacky going on, it cant be that because the majority of internet traffic works peachy keen. I'm a bit rusty on my IP internals, is the fragmentation supposed to occur in the FreeBSD kernel, or should the MTU discovery process effectivly set the MTU of the entire path to the lower value? Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 10:22:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lily.ezo.net (lily.ezo.net [206.102.130.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF8614BFA for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:22:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jflowers@ezo.net) Received: from crocus (c3-1d196.neo.rr.com [24.93.233.196]) by lily.ezo.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA00367; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:21:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301be755a$0eed6d20$23b197ce@ezo.net> From: "Jim Flowers" To: "Charles Henrich" Cc: "Matthew Reimer" , References: <36F6D023.1925D6D5@vpop.net> <001301be74ce$d63efdd0$23b197ce@ezo.net> <19990323100221.D8398@orbit.flnet.com> Subject: Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:21:21 -0500 Organization: EZNets, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Skip definitely alters the mtu downward that it presents for discovery in order to allow for the increased size of the outbound encapsulated packets without causing fragmentation. This is described in one of the white papers that comes with it. Have you tried setting the mtu of the skip interface down to something like 756? I had to do this for cvsup (< 1300) to work reliably although I didn't ascribe the problem to SKIP at the time because it goes through the NAT path but it still has to go through the SKIP ACL in cleartext. - might have been. This should have the effect of causing smaller packets to be received. ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Henrich To: Jim Flowers Cc: Matthew Reimer ; Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 1:02 PM Subject: Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU > On the subject of Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU, Jim Flowers stated: > > > Depending on what is wanted, SKIP and NAT will cooperate nicely on the same > > interface. SKIP can be used for tunneled traffic over a VPN while NAT is > > used for non-SKIP traffic. I have posted some how-tos on freebsd-security > > recently but the general idea is to include appropriate matching rules in > > ipfw to accept the SKIP related traffic prior to being diverted by the NAT > > rule. This can also be used to switch individual network hosts from SKIP to > > NAT and back by manipulating network host rules. > > The problems I'm seeing are apparently related to the fact that SKIP alters > the mtu on the internal interface... However if I use the tun devices for skip > it shouldnt be a problem, I'll search through the mailling lists for your > write-ups, thanks! > > Here's the wacky situation that I'm running into: > > 10.x --> fxp0 [NATD] fxp1 <-- www.travelocity.com > > If I alter the MTU on the fxp0 interface (natd is on fxp1) connections to > travelocity fail work, then no bulk data exchange works.. The connection > eventually times out and drops. This also occurs with a bunch other sites as > well. My first thought was to blame the FreeBSD internal framentation > handling code between fxp1/fxp0, but unless there's something *really* wacky > going on, it cant be that because the majority of internet traffic works > peachy keen. I'm a bit rusty on my IP internals, is the fragmentation > supposed to occur in the FreeBSD kernel, or should the MTU discovery process > effectivly set the MTU of the entire path to the lower value? > > > Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com > > http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 10:25: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F1AE14D85 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:25:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id NAA09807; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:24:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:24:34 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: Jim Flowers Cc: Matthew Reimer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU Message-ID: <19990323102434.B9273@orbit.flnet.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jim Flowers , Matthew Reimer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <36F6D023.1925D6D5@vpop.net> <001301be74ce$d63efdd0$23b197ce@ezo.net> <19990323100221.D8398@orbit.flnet.com> <001301be755a$0eed6d20$23b197ce@ezo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <001301be755a$0eed6d20$23b197ce@ezo.net>; from Jim Flowers on Tue, Mar 23, 1999 at 01:21:21PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On the subject of Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU, Jim Flowers stated: > Skip definitely alters the mtu downward that it presents for discovery in > order to allow for the increased size of the outbound encapsulated packets > without causing fragmentation. This is described in one of the white papers > that comes with it. Have you tried setting the mtu of the skip interface > down to something like 756? I had to do this for cvsup (< 1300) to work > reliably although I didn't ascribe the problem to SKIP at the time because > it goes through the NAT path but it still has to go through the SKIP ACL in > cleartext. - might have been. This should have the effect of causing > smaller packets to be received. I've completely removed skip from all interfaces and I still see the problems with NAT or FreeBSD when I alter the mtu.. -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 11:49:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 364BF153D7 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:49:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA282096518; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:15:18 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:15:18 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Emmanuel DELOGET Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Mail List Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? In-Reply-To: <199903231140.LAA28691@excalibur.oceanis.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Emmanuel DELOGET wrote: > Hey... I think I'm dreaming. You'd pay to have this NFS stuff > fixed ?!?!!? I don't think this fits very well with the spirit > of a free OS. Perhaps I'm wrong, but, if you pay someone (even > McKusick) to do this work, you may enter in a new land, where > committers would want to be paid to fix up little things. This > is crazy. Perhaps we'll have a 'letter to FreeBSD hobbyists' in > some days that woul say : Money talks. I will never ask to be paid for what I do for FreeBSD, but there are some things that are too big to expect volunteers to do. To paraphrase RFC1925: Time, talent, willingness: Pick any two. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 12:12:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD4414C4F for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:12:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA78895; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:15:51 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:15:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Nick Hibma Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: scheduling a function call from int routines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Nick Hibma wrote: > > I want to schedule a function call from an interrupt routine. How do I > do that? timeout? > > As in, a USB returns in an interrupt the message the fact that the > connection status of one of the ports or suspend status has changed. I > cannot start checking the ports from that interrupt routine, because I > need to transfer data to the device to make that work. > > thanks. I think you need a kernel thread, either spawned during system startup or via a system call from usbd. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 12:40:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B81B9152DF for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:38:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id VAA78730; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:37:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Emmanuel DELOGET Cc: chuckr@mat.net (Chuck Robey), jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers Mail List) Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? References: <199903231140.LAA28691@excalibur.oceanis.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 23 Mar 1999 21:37:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: Emmanuel DELOGET's message of "Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:40:25 +0100 (MET)" Message-ID: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Emmanuel DELOGET writes: > Hey... I think I'm dreaming. You'd pay to have this NFS stuff > fixed ?!?!!? I don't think this fits very well with the spirit > of a free OS. Perhaps I'm wrong, but, if you pay someone (even > McKusick) to do this work, you may enter in a new land, where > committers would want to be paid to fix up little things. This > is crazy. Perhaps we'll have a 'letter to FreeBSD hobbyists' in > some days that woul say : > [...] Sorry, kid, but you're a little late. There are already several precedents for hiring people (and yes, M. Kirk McKusick is amongst them) to fix bugs in FreeBSD. I can't see that it has had any effect on the willingness of the FreeBSD developers to do work for free. OBTW, Walnut Creek CD-ROM has three employees working full-time on developing FreeBSD. How does that rock your little boat? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 13:22:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.skylink.it (ns.skylink.it [194.177.113.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE7714CE3 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:22:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hibma@skylink.it) Received: from heidi.plazza.it (va-139.skylink.it [194.177.113.139]) by ns.skylink.it (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA30967; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:20:40 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost.plazza.it [127.0.0.1]) by heidi.plazza.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA02558; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:16:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:16:33 +0100 (CET) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@heidi.plazza.it Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Doug Rabson Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: scheduling a function call from int routines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The usbd thing we are doing right now, but I don't like it, as you have to pick up the pieces when the daemon is killed. Try it and you will see what I mean. Lot's of failed transfers. Most probably could be solved, I agree, but not as a first priority, A kernel thread would be easier and I do remember something like that being mentioned somewhere in the manpages. Any chance you know where to find it? Nick > > As in, a USB returns in an interrupt the message the fact that the > > connection status of one of the ports or suspend status has changed. I > > cannot start checking the ports from that interrupt routine, because I > > need to transfer data to the device to make that work. > > > > thanks. > > I think you need a kernel thread, either spawned during system startup or > via a system call from usbd. > > -- > Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com > Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 > > > -- e-Mail: hibma@skylink.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 14: 6:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EBAB152B1 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:06:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA81338; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:39:38 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:39:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Nick Hibma Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: scheduling a function call from int routines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Nick Hibma wrote: > > The usbd thing we are doing right now, but I don't like it, as you have > to pick up the pieces when the daemon is killed. Try it and you will see > what I mean. Lot's of failed transfers. Most probably could be solved, I > agree, but not as a first priority, > > A kernel thread would be easier and I do remember something like that > being mentioned somewhere in the manpages. Any chance you know where to > find it? > > Nick You can create kernel threads at startup time by using SYSINIT_KT. This isn't supported by KLD though so it might not be the best solution. For usbd, I think it selects on a control device (or something) and wakes up when an event has happened, calling ioctl (or something) to handle the event. This isn't what I was thinking of though; something more like nfsiod might be better: if (!fork()) usb_syscall(...); /* never returns */ The syscall could be replaced by an ioctl I guess. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 14:39:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40E014E58 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:39:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA06150; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:37:32 GMT (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01339; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:36:52 GMT (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199903232236.WAA01339@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Charles Henrich Cc: Jim Flowers , Matthew Reimer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:24:34 PST." <19990323102434.B9273@orbit.flnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:36:52 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've completely removed skip from all interfaces and I still see the problems > with NAT or FreeBSD when I alter the mtu.. Are you using the -dynamic switch to natd ? Without it, natd will never notice the changed mtu and will screw things up. > -Crh > > Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com > > http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 14:40:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pak.texar.com (pak.texar.com [207.112.49.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF0E15417 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:39:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dseg@pak.texar.com) Received: (from dseg@localhost) by pak.texar.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) id RAA01221; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:39:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:39:24 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Seguin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: syscalls Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all. Is it possible to make syscalls from KLDs? I had assumed that the indirect syscall(SYS_call, ...) would do the trick, but all I get is a panic (12, page fault) when I try to load the KLD. Is there anything special I need to do before calling syscall()? What I'm trying to do is create a socket/connect channel for auditing purposes. So... /* Code snippet */ { #include #include int sockfd; sockfd = syscall(SYS_socket, AF_UNIX, SOCK_STREAM, 0); } etc, etc. This appears in a function that is called upon KLD LOAD. I've tried __syscall((quad_t) SYS_socket, AF_UNIX, SOCK_STREAM, 0), to no avail. Thanks for your help. DSeg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 14:54:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E14014BD6 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:54:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id RAA18014; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:52:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:52:52 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: Brian Somers Cc: Jim Flowers , Matthew Reimer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU Message-ID: <19990323145252.C15852@orbit.flnet.com> Mail-Followup-To: Brian Somers , Jim Flowers , Matthew Reimer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990323102434.B9273@orbit.flnet.com> <199903232236.WAA01339@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199903232236.WAA01339@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org>; from Brian Somers on Tue, Mar 23, 1999 at 10:36:52PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On the subject of Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU, Brian Somers stated: > > I've completely removed skip from all interfaces and I still see the > > problems with NAT or FreeBSD when I alter the mtu.. > > Are you using the -dynamic switch to natd ? Without it, natd will never > notice the changed mtu and will screw things up. I wasnt, however im changing the MTU on the non-NAT interface.. I've added the -dynamic flag and it still doesnt work. I'm quite completely confused now as to whats going on inside FreeBSD land and where the problems are. If you have a NAT setup this is trivial to reproduce, maybe you can fathom whats going on. Alter the MTU of the internal network interface, then try and connect to www.travelocity.com and retreieve a web page.. No go. Altering the mtu of the external interface makes no difference what so ever to the traffic, it always works. Touch the internal interface and it goes to hell. Any suggestions anyone might have would be greatly welcome! -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 15: 3:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B4D2153B2 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:03:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA81590; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:06:19 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:06:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Dan Seguin Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: syscalls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Dan Seguin wrote: > > > Hi all. > > Is it possible to make syscalls from KLDs? I had assumed that the indirect > syscall(SYS_call, ...) would do the trick, but all I get is a panic (12, > page fault) when I try to load the KLD. Is there anything special I need > to do before calling syscall()? What I'm trying to do is create a > socket/connect channel for auditing purposes. So... > > /* Code snippet */ > { > > #include > #include > > int sockfd; > > sockfd = syscall(SYS_socket, AF_UNIX, SOCK_STREAM, 0); > > } > > > etc, etc. This appears in a function that is called upon KLD LOAD. > > > I've tried __syscall((quad_t) SYS_socket, AF_UNIX, SOCK_STREAM, 0), to no > avail. > > > Thanks for your help. Syscalls are the interface from user code to kernel code. The code in a KLD is kernel code and as such should not (can't) use syscalls to obtain kernel services. In many cases, it is possible to call the underlying kernel implementation for these services directly using the internal kernel apis. For most of these apis, the only documentation is the kernel sources. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 15:21: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blackhole.iceworld.org (blackhole.iceworld.org [204.246.64.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03CC414E91 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:20:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from griffin@blackhole.iceworld.org) Received: from vortex (vortex.iceworld.org [192.168.0.100]) by blackhole.iceworld.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA54661 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:20:32 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from griffin@blackhole.iceworld.org) Message-ID: <199903231720320920.08996462@192.168.0.99> In-Reply-To: <19990323102434.B9273@orbit.flnet.com> References: <36F6D023.1925D6D5@vpop.net> <001301be74ce$d63efdd0$23b197ce@ezo.net> <19990323100221.D8398@orbit.flnet.com> <001301be755a$0eed6d20$23b197ce@ezo.net> <19990323102434.B9273@orbit.flnet.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.11 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:20:32 -0600 From: "Jimbo Bahooli" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 3/23/99 at 10:24 AM Charles Henrich wrote: >On the subject of Re: NAT/SKIP/MTU, Jim Flowers stated: > >> Skip definitely alters the mtu downward that it presents for discovery= in >> order to allow for the increased size of the outbound encapsulated= packets >> without causing fragmentation. This is described in one of the white= papers >> that comes with it. Have you tried setting the mtu of the skip= interface >> down to something like 756? I had to do this for cvsup (< 1300) to work >> reliably although I didn't ascribe the problem to SKIP at the time= because >> it goes through the NAT path but it still has to go through the SKIP ACL= in >> cleartext. - might have been. This should have the effect of causing >> smaller packets to be received. > >I've completely removed skip from all interfaces and I still see the= problems >with NAT or FreeBSD when I alter the mtu.. > >-Crh I have noticed this with NAT also, if the internal and external mtu's are= not equal bad things happen to your packets. The only real solution I= have found is to keep the mtu's the same. Jimbo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 15:26:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from oracle.dsuper.net (oracle.dsuper.net [205.205.255.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F34F14C23 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:26:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmilekic@oracle.dsuper.net) Received: from localhost (bmilekic@localhost) by oracle.dsuper.net (Delphi 1.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA03413; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:26:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:26:27 -0500 (EST) From: Bosko Milekic To: Mark Ovens Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem with fork() in 3.1 In-Reply-To: <36F79238.5FC1DA7C@uk.radan.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Replace execvp() with execvl("./d2c","d2c",NULL,NULL); and the problem should be fixed. You may also try adding dup2()s before the close()s in your parent, although I don't think it's necessary here... Regards, Bosko M. -- Bosko Milekic http://www.supernet.ca/~bmilekic/ Delphi SuperNet voice: (+1) 514 281-7500 fax: (+1) 514 281-6599 PGP Key available upon request. On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:08:08 +0000 > From: Mark Ovens > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Problem with fork() in 3.1 > > Hi, > > Firstly, my apologies if this is an inappropriate question to post > here, but I have asked in -questions and received no response and I am > completely stumped. If anyone could spare a couple of minutes to look > at this for me I would be very grateful (my learning curve is > currently flat-lining). > > I have been learning about Inter Process Comms and have written the 2 > progs included below. It all worked under 2.2.8 however when I u/g to > 3.1-R (from the CD) it no longer works :-(. > > Under 2.2.8 the output was: > > % demo > RESULT! - Circumference-106.814150 > % > > however, under 3.1 this happens: > > % demo > RESULT! - > % > [snip snip] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 15:31:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from oracle.dsuper.net (oracle.dsuper.net [205.205.255.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9756614C23 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:31:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmilekic@oracle.dsuper.net) Received: from localhost (bmilekic@localhost) by oracle.dsuper.net (Delphi 1.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24446; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:30:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:30:34 -0500 (EST) From: Bosko Milekic To: Mark Ovens Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem with fork() in 3.1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Little typo in previous post: s/execvl/execl/; Bosko. -- Bosko Milekic http://www.supernet.ca/~bmilekic/ Delphi SuperNet voice: (+1) 514 281-7500 fax: (+1) 514 281-6599 PGP Key available upon request. On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Bosko Milekic wrote: > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:26:27 -0500 (EST) > From: Bosko Milekic > To: Mark Ovens > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Problem with fork() in 3.1 > > > Replace execvp() with execvl("./d2c","d2c",NULL,NULL); and the problem > should be fixed. > > You may also try adding dup2()s before the close()s in your parent, > although I don't think it's necessary here... > > Regards, > Bosko M. > > -- > Bosko Milekic http://www.supernet.ca/~bmilekic/ > Delphi SuperNet voice: (+1) 514 281-7500 fax: (+1) 514 281-6599 > PGP Key available upon request. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 16: 9: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5984A14E91 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:08:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drew@plutotech.com) Received: from dune.plutotech.com (drew@dune.plutotech.com [206.168.67.170]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA93944 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:08:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drew@plutotech.com) From: Drew Eckhardt Received: (from drew@localhost) by dune.plutotech.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id RAA04279; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:08:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drew@mail.plutotech.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:08:32 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199903240008.RAA04279@dune.plutotech.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? X-Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199903231140.LAA28691@excalibur.oceanis.net> Organization: Cc: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199903231140.LAA28691@excalibur.oceanis.net> you write: >As the well known Chuck Robey said... >-> > Hey... I think I'm dreaming. You'd pay to have this NFS stuff > fixed ?!?!!? If NFS were more important to me, sure. > I don't think this fits very well with the spirit > of a free OS. It fits in fine. The "free" in free software means you're free to do whatever you want with it. If it doesn't meet your criteria as-is, you're free to change it. If you lack the resources to make the changes yourself, you're free to hire someone to make them for you. > Perhaps I'm wrong, but, if you pay someone (even > McKusick) to do this work, you may enter in a new land, where > committers would want to be paid to fix up little things. If you get FreeBSD tweaked into an acceptable state for commercial applications, FreeBSD jobs will be available, and you can make it your day job. If it's unacceptable in those installations, you'll get stuck with an inferior commercial even if it's a high-availability installation and OS defects cause it to drop out to the ROM monitor. Seems like a no-brainer to me. > is crazy. Perhaps we'll have a 'letter to FreeBSD hobbyists' in > some days that woul say : > > "Some poeple spend hard time to work on this really great > piece of software. These poeple cannot work for nothing, > that's why you must buy FreeBSD. If you do not pay FreeBSD, > you just steal hours of hard and expensive work." In which case, you're free to take the sources and provide a Really-Free-BSD where financially subsidized contributions are specifically disallowed. > Do we have to add these lines to the FreeBSD licence ? Nope. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 18:46:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3C414C23 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:45:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA25461 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:45:24 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:45:24 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: dladdr(3) question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, I know I'm probably doing something stupid here, but I seem to be having a problem getting dladdr(3) to work. Here's the code ... #include #include #include int foo() { return 0; } int main() { Dl_info dlinfo; if (dladdr(foo, &dlinfo) == 0) { printf("dladdr failed: %s\n", dlerror()); exit(1); } printf("dli_fname = %s\n", dlinfo.dli_fname); return 0; } ... and a couple of sample runs. bsd[~]$ ./a.out dladdr failed: Service unavailable bsd[~]$ uname -rs FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT pepito[~]$ ./a.out dli_fname = a.out pepito[~]$ uname -rs SunOS 5.7 Anyone have any ideas where I'm missing the boat? -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 20:29:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B6B14C1F for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:29:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA77378; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:30:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8646.922191026@axl.noc.iafrica.com> References: Your message of "Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:13:06 EST." Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:29:39 -0500 To: Sheldon Hearn From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Exctracting stuff from PRs Cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 2:10 PM +0200 3/23/99, Sheldon Hearn wrote: >On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:13:06 EST, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > >> When I went to use 'send-pr' for a problem, I was surprised that >> send-pr itself does not have a parameter for "sample file" or >> some-such. If it did, then you would have some control of what >> format that enclosure arrived in. > > It's easy to create your own template. From within the editor > invoked by send-pr, simply save a copy of the default file to > ~/.pr_template or whatever. > > Now use that file as a template when you start composing a new > message. I was thinking more of an -option for send-pr, such as any freebsd user could: send-pr -example badbug.c or send-pr -fix goodstuff.diff where send-pr would worry about encoding the files (BASE64?) and putting them into the message in some standard format which would be easy (well, "easier") to process on the receiving side. It might also do things like check the file size, and refuse absurdly large files. My intent was to give everyone a nice, standard, obvious way to include these kinds of files, so the receiving side could automatically "handle" them. Creating a new template for my own personal use isn't going to address Julian's original observation.. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 21:29:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pak.texar.com (pak.texar.com [207.112.49.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A121508C for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:29:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dseg@pak.texar.com) Received: (from dseg@localhost) by pak.texar.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) id AAA01768; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:29:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:29:21 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Seguin To: Doug Rabson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: syscalls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Doug Rabson wrote: > > Syscalls are the interface from user code to kernel code. The code in a > KLD is kernel code and as such should not (can't) use syscalls to obtain > kernel services. In many cases, it is possible to call the underlying > kernel implementation for these services directly using the internal > kernel apis. For most of these apis, the only documentation is the kernel > sources. > > -- > Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com > Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 > Thanks for the response. There's the rub. I thought the syscall redirector was used internally. I am aware of kernel/userland differences (just not how in *BSD).The only real problem I have (and I haven't spent enough time yet looking into this) is setting up a proc structure to pass to the system call, i.e. something like: returnValue = (sysent[SYS_open].sy_call)(p, uap); where p is struct proc and uap is (in this case) struct open_args (from ) passed to me as a void *. I'm not sure about the above syntax, I usually just use return([system call here]). The above looks natural to me, being a Schemer. (I know, I know, forget about Scheme, this is C, just a little sidebar d;-). I'm I way off base here with the proc stuff? Or the question I really need answered, the one that would cut through all of this is: how do I pass parameters to system calls that DON'T originate from userland? Is there something that I need to do that is generic for all calls followed (I would expect) by the actual parametres to the call? Thanks for all your answers and especially for your time, gentlemen. (Er, and ladies too). Dan Seguin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 22:23:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC1815121; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:23:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA11340; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:23:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA17580; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:23:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:23:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199903240623.XAA17580@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Steve Price Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dladdr(3) question In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I know I'm probably doing something stupid here, but I > seem to be having a problem getting dladdr(3) to work. I just researched this (since I'm as interested in Steve as to why this doesn't work. :) It appears to me that dladdr is *NOT* supported in ELF in the current code. However, it is supported in a.out (in 3.* only). The functionality is missing in /usr/src/libexec/rtld-elf, although I suspect it's an oversight and not intentional. I'm not *real* familiar with the loader code, but given it's already implemented for a.out I suspect it should be easy to add to the elf loader. John would know more (hope he's feeling better). Nate -------------------- > Here's the code ... > > #include > #include > #include > int foo() { > return 0; > } > int main() { > Dl_info dlinfo; > if (dladdr(foo, &dlinfo) == 0) { > printf("dladdr failed: %s\n", dlerror()); > exit(1); > } > printf("dli_fname = %s\n", dlinfo.dli_fname); > return 0; > } > > ... and a couple of sample runs. > > bsd[~]$ ./a.out > dladdr failed: Service unavailable > bsd[~]$ uname -rs > FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT > > pepito[~]$ ./a.out > dli_fname = a.out > pepito[~]$ uname -rs > SunOS 5.7 > > Anyone have any ideas where I'm missing the boat? > > -steve > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 23 23:51:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bubba.whistle.com (s205m7.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD80153D8 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:51:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id XAA53480; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:50:08 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199903240750.XAA53480@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Will IPFW pass GRE packets? In-Reply-To: <199903132039.MAA65042@vashon.polstra.com> from John Polstra at "Mar 13, 99 12:39:01 pm" To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:50:08 -0800 (PST) Cc: ck@adsu.bellsouth.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra writes: > Christian Kuhtz wrote: > > > GRE is some windows NT thing? If it is, someone has already figured this > > > out for you, the lists have it. > > > > GRE stands for "Generic Route Encapsulation" and is an IETF standard as > > defined by RFC1701 (http://www.adsu.bellsouth.com/pub/ietf/rfc/rfc1701 and > > RFC1702). It is used to tunnel all sorts of things across IPv4 networks, > > including IPv4 itself. It has jack squat to do with NT. > > Not quite true. Like a dog who must piss on every bush, Microsoft > couldn't endure the thought of following existing standards. So they > invented an "enhanced GRE header" for their PPTP tunneling. See > "draft-ietf-pppext-pptp-01.txt" from your favorite Internet Drafts > repository. > > It gets even better. They explicitly specify that checksums must be > disabled in the GRE encapsulation. And the PPP packets contained > therein are stripped of all link-level headers. Thus, as far as I can > tell, there is zero, zilch, nada error detection of any kind on the > encapsulated PPP packets (i.e., your valuable data). Tcpdump confirms > this. I think this is reasonable for what they were trying to do (PPTP). In general, the PPP link layer (which is what GRE is functioning as here) does not guarantee uncorrupted frame transmission either. So nothing is being broken by this. Also, since PPTP GRE packets contain complete IP packets within them, the checksum could be considered redundant. On the other hand, IMHO a checksum would have been worth it for the extra level of confidence. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 0:29:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189C815465 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:27:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10Pizw-0008dh-00; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:26:48 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exctracting stuff from PRs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:29:39 EST." Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:26:47 +0200 Message-ID: <33212.922264007@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:29:39 EST, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > I was thinking more of an -option for send-pr, such as any freebsd > user could: > send-pr -example badbug.c > or > send-pr -fix goodstuff.diff I can only assume that you mean "I was thinking of adding an option to send-pr", in which case go for it. You'll have at least one appreciative user (me). If you meant someone else should do it, you should know better. :-) Later, Sheldon. PS: Post your send-pr diffs as a PR and then mail the PR number to current, not hackers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 0:42: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-003.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 145CB14BDC for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:42:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from charlie.lehoangan@acetiming.com) Received: from brennes1-2-81.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.250.144.81] by wanadoo.fr for Paris Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:38:27 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36F8A55A.7BC2@acetiming.com> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:42:02 +0100 From: le hoangan charlie Reply-To: charlie.lehoangan@acetiming.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ep driver Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I develop a soft that controls ethernet frames and datagrams in them! on Freebsd 2.2.8 with PAO dec1998. I've tested 3C509 on a desktop, 3C589D and 3C megahertz 3C589E on a laptop, it seems to me that the ep driver does not work properly. I use in the same laptop 2 pccard ethernet boards. Is there a better driver for 3C5X9? or are there better driver for other pccard boards ? if not, can someone writes me where in the if_ep.c to resolve the bug ? charlie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 4:50:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from theo.thg.goe.ni.schule.de (theo.THG.Goe.NI.Schule.DE [195.27.182.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDD515008; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:50:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gratke@thg.goe.ni.schule.de) Received: from elly.thg.goe.ni.schule.de (gratke@elly.thg.goe.ni.schule.de [195.27.182.98]) by theo.thg.goe.ni.schule.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA20149; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:49:20 +0100 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:49:44 +0100 (MET) From: Georg Ratke To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG unsubscribe freebsd-hackers-digest To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 6: 4:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.149.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC3D14DBA for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:04:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au) Received: (from avalon@localhost) by cheops.anu.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA22142 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 01:04:22 +1100 (EDT) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199903241404.BAA22142@cheops.anu.edu.au> Subject: scsi floppy drives. To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 01:04:21 +1100 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG has anyone had any luck getting a floppy drive connected through a scsi adapater ? i came across a floppy drive connect to something which shows up as this: Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: (ahc0:0:0): "TEAC FC-1 HF 11 RV J" type 0 removable SCSI 1 Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): NOT READY asc:4,0 Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Logical unit not ready, cause n ot reportable Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0: could not get size Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:26,0 Invalid field in parameter list Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0 could not mode sense (4). Using fictitious geometry Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: 0MB (0 512 byte sectors) I've no idea whether it is a 720k or 1.4MB floppy - it is a 3.5" unit. Any clues ? I'd love to have a scsi-only PC :-) darren p.s. FWIW, FreeBSD (2.2.8) did the best job of detecting it in the trial which also involved linux 2.2.3 and solaris7. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 6:21: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A3814F97 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:20:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id OAA08447; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:20:32 GMT (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:18:53 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199903241404.BAA22142@cheops.anu.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:18:52 +0000 To: Darren Reed From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: scsi floppy drives. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 1:04 am +1100 25/3/99, Darren Reed wrote: >has anyone had any luck getting a floppy drive connected through a >scsi adapater ? i came across a floppy drive connect to something >which shows up as this: > >Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: (ahc0:0:0): "TEAC FC-1 HF 11 RV J" >type 0 > removable SCSI 1 >Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access >Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): NOT READY asc:4,0 >Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Logical unit not ready, >cause n >ot reportable >Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0: could not get size >Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: >Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:26,0 >Invalid > field in parameter list >Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: sd0 could not mode sense (4). Using >fictitious >geometry >Mar 23 20:55:03 freebsd /kernel: 0MB (0 512 byte sectors) > >I've no idea whether it is a 720k or 1.4MB floppy - it is a 3.5" unit. > >Any clues ? I'd love to have a scsi-only PC :-) The only problem is that the driver(?) can't tell it isn't something like a Zip drive, and therefore expects it to have a partition table which flops don't. Otherwise I expect it would Just Work. [Whether you can boot off it depends on the controller BIOS.] -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 6:33:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov (mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B79114F5A for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:33:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from demios.ether.scl.ameslab.gov ([147.155.137.54]) by mailhub.scl.ameslab.gov with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for hackers@freebsd.org id 10PojQ-0001LQ-00; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:34:08 -0600 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:33:27 -0600 From: Guy Helmer To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Ensoniq 1371 support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone have (or is anyone working on) Ensoniq 1371 sound card support? I tried adding the 1371's PCI ID to the es1370.c driver, but during probing the pcm0 continuously printed "timeout errors". Thanks, Guy Guy Helmer, Ph.D. Candidate, Iowa State University Dept. of Computer Science Research Assistant, Ames Laboratory --- ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov Research Assistant, Dept. of Computer Science --- ghelmer@cs.iastate.edu http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~ghelmer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 6:44:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 408BB152CA for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:44:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA10129; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:29:55 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199903241229.NAA10129@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Ensoniq 1371 support To: ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov (Guy Helmer) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:29:55 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Guy Helmer" at Mar 24, 99 08:33:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 934 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Does anyone have (or is anyone working on) Ensoniq 1371 sound card > support? I tried adding the 1371's PCI ID to the es1370.c driver, but > during probing the pcm0 continuously printed "timeout errors". because they are not the same thing... BTW if you people see that i am silent on a subject (such as audio) where i should speak out, you can assume that i have no useful answer (i.e. it is either 'this is not supported and i have no plans to/patches from other people). I try to follow msgs on the lists as much as possible. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO . EMAIL: luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione HTTP://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 10:18:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0883C14D62 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:18:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28755; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:18:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA00588; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:18:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199903240623.XAA17580@mt.sri.com> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:18:26 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: dladdr(3) question Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Steve Price Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams wrote: > John would know more (hope he's feeling better). Nope, I still have the flu pretty bad. So I'll keep this brief. >> I know I'm probably doing something stupid here, but I >> seem to be having a problem getting dladdr(3) to work. > > I just researched this (since I'm as interested in Steve as to why this > doesn't work. :) It appears to me that dladdr is *NOT* supported in ELF > in the current code. However, it is supported in a.out (in 3.* only). > > The functionality is missing in /usr/src/libexec/rtld-elf, although I > suspect it's an oversight and not intentional. That's right. I just noticed that it was missing a couple of weeks ago. > I'm not *real* familiar with the loader code, but given it's already > implemented for a.out I suspect it should be easy to add to the elf > loader. Yes, it should be easy. The infrastructure is already there in rtld.c, such as the obj_from_addr() function. Then you'd have to add an entry for it to the "exports" array, and put a dummy stub into "src/lib/libc/gen/dlfcn.c". I'll try to get to it soon. Or if you feel like doing it yourself, I could review it for you. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 10:30:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14D2514DDE for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id NAA09909 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:29:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:29:26 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: ipfw and divert to devices? Message-ID: <19990324102926.A9708@orbit.flnet.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there some magic in ipfw anywhere that will allow me to divert packets to the tun device? -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 10:40: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A607D14F2F for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:39:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA11863; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:39:12 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:39:12 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: John Polstra Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dladdr(3) question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, John Polstra wrote: # > I'm not *real* familiar with the loader code, but given it's already # > implemented for a.out I suspect it should be easy to add to the elf # > loader. # # Yes, it should be easy. The infrastructure is already there in # rtld.c, such as the obj_from_addr() function. Then you'd have to # add an entry for it to the "exports" array, and put a dummy stub # into "src/lib/libc/gen/dlfcn.c". The dummy stub is there. That is where I'm getting the "Service unavailable" mesage from. I wondered where that was coming from. :) # I'll try to get to it soon. Or if you feel like doing it yourself, I # could review it for you. I have half an implementation going. I'll fumble around and get something close and then I'll get back with you. Thanks for the offer of help. Hope you get better soon! -steve # John # --- # John Polstra jdp@polstra.com # John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA # "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong # # To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 10:52:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9765814D76 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:52:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28871; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA00701; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199903240750.XAA53480@bubba.whistle.com> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:52:12 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Archie Cobbs Subject: Re: Will IPFW pass GRE packets? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Archie Cobbs wrote: > John Polstra writes: >> It gets even better. They explicitly specify that checksums must be >> disabled in the GRE encapsulation. And the PPP packets contained >> therein are stripped of all link-level headers. Thus, as far as I can >> tell, there is zero, zilch, nada error detection of any kind on the >> encapsulated PPP packets (i.e., your valuable data). Tcpdump confirms >> this. > > I think this is reasonable for what they were trying to do (PPTP). > In general, the PPP link layer (which is what GRE is functioning as > here) does not guarantee uncorrupted frame transmission either. So > nothing is being broken by this. Are you sure? PPP isn't exactly my specialty, but I've looked at RFC1662, "PPP in HDLC-like Framing," which I assume applies to standard dial-up PPP. It shows a Frame Check Sequence on every frame (see section 3.1). Without some sort of checksum, real bad stuff could happen. For example, corrupted LCP packets could be received without even knowing it. I have a hard time believing that the designers of PPP intended for that to be so likely -- serial links have very high error rates. > Also, since PPTP GRE packets contain complete IP packets within > them, the checksum could be considered redundant. But the LCP packets, for example, are not IP. They don't have any checksum of their own. Besides, the redundancy argument was exactly the rationale for having no checksum in SLIP. It was later found to be a bad idea. That's why PPP added the FCS. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 11: 3:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bubba.whistle.com (s205m7.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B1E814DB3 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:03:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA92365; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:02:55 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199903241902.LAA92365@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Will IPFW pass GRE packets? In-Reply-To: from John Polstra at "Mar 24, 99 10:52:12 am" To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:02:55 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra writes: > > John Polstra writes: > >> It gets even better. They explicitly specify that checksums must be > >> disabled in the GRE encapsulation. And the PPP packets contained > >> therein are stripped of all link-level headers. Thus, as far as I can > >> tell, there is zero, zilch, nada error detection of any kind on the > >> encapsulated PPP packets (i.e., your valuable data). Tcpdump confirms > >> this. > > > > I think this is reasonable for what they were trying to do (PPTP). > > In general, the PPP link layer (which is what GRE is functioning as > > here) does not guarantee uncorrupted frame transmission either. So > > nothing is being broken by this. > > Are you sure? PPP isn't exactly my specialty, but I've looked at > RFC1662, "PPP in HDLC-like Framing," which I assume applies to > standard dial-up PPP. It shows a Frame Check Sequence on every frame > (see section 3.1). Right.. that RFC states how to do PPP when the medium is HDLC-like. This is only a subset of the possible media. Others include asynchronous serial, ATM FUNI, Ethernet, etc. All of the other media examples that I know of *do* include a checksum, but this is mostly because they do already. For example, it's not possible with most Ethernet hardware *not* to include a checksum. So PPP is just going along. Async serial is an example where they explictly added a checksum (which was a good idea IMHO). > Without some sort of checksum, real bad stuff could happen. For > example, corrupted LCP packets could be received without even knowing > it. I have a hard time believing that the designers of PPP intended > for that to be so likely -- serial links have very high error rates. I think you're right.. they probably (implicitly) assumed a certain low error rate. But RFC 1661 is silent on this issue, as far as I can tell. > > Also, since PPTP GRE packets contain complete IP packets within > > them, the checksum could be considered redundant. > > But the LCP packets, for example, are not IP. They don't have any > checksum of their own. Besides, the redundancy argument was exactly > the rationale for having no checksum in SLIP. It was later found to > be a bad idea. That's why PPP added the FCS. Basically I agree with you, but it's agreement "in practice" rather than "in theory". In other words, Microsoft (and Ascend, 3Com, Copper Mountain, and ECI) may have done something that was just plain stupid, but they didn't do anything that was a blatant violation of any spec. Moreover, while not perfect, IP error rates are still much lower than 1990-era modem error rates were, etc. So they were probably just lucky enough to get by on this one... -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 11:14:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899A614F03 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:14:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28957; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:14:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id LAA00740; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:14:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199903241902.LAA92365@bubba.whistle.com> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:14:20 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: Archie Cobbs Subject: Re: Will IPFW pass GRE packets? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Archie Cobbs wrote: > Basically I agree with you, but it's agreement "in practice" > rather than "in theory". In other words, Microsoft (and Ascend, > 3Com, Copper Mountain, and ECI) may have done something that was > just plain stupid, but they didn't do anything that was a blatant > violation of any spec. Yep, I think we're in violent agreement. :-) I think what bugs me is that Microsoft didn't just leave the checksum as optional. They actually specified that it's not to be used. :-( > Moreover, while not perfect, IP error rates are still much lower > than 1990-era modem error rates were, etc. So they were probably > just lucky enough to get by on this one... BTW, there's an interesting little table on page 147 of Stevens Vol. 1 ("TCP/IP Illustrated") showing some actual measured error rates from around 1992. John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 11:24:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from vds-inc.com (unknown [208.207.72.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21AD114CBE for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:24:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rayseals@midwestis.com) Received: from rseals ([204.193.71.55]) by vds-inc.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28494 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:39:53 -0600 (CST) From: "Ray Seals" To: "Freebsd-Hackers" Subject: Source code virgin...Needs your help Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:27:56 -0600 Message-ID: <000601be762c$6b3003e0$0a021eac@rseals.midwestis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was looking at the graphical screen saver stuff. I thought this would be something kinda cool to get me started on some hacking. It looks to me like logo.c is were the image that is put on the screen is stored. I have never seen an image stored this way. What is this and can I use something like Photoshop to give me those numbers? If I modify the logo.c, what all do I need to do (recompile syscon?) to make this changes good. Is this the wrong forum for these minor league questions? Thanks, Ray To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 11:26:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bubba.whistle.com (s205m7.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC66215352 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:26:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA92595; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:25:35 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199903241925.LAA92595@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Will IPFW pass GRE packets? In-Reply-To: from John Polstra at "Mar 24, 99 11:14:20 am" To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:25:35 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra writes: > > Basically I agree with you, but it's agreement "in practice" > > rather than "in theory". In other words, Microsoft (and Ascend, > > 3Com, Copper Mountain, and ECI) may have done something that was > > just plain stupid, but they didn't do anything that was a blatant > > violation of any spec. > > Yep, I think we're in violent agreement. :-) > > I think what bugs me is that Microsoft didn't just leave the checksum > as optional. They actually specified that it's not to be used. :-( Yes, there would have been no harm in that. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 12:41: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D977314CBA for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:41:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.31]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA3447 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:37:54 -0500 Message-ID: <36F94D27.5B2069E@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:38:00 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Banshee X Server source released Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This came today in the XFree86/OS2 list: __________________________ FYI: Cards with the Banshee chipset (3DFX) were not available because of lack of docs. Now the source for a (barely accelerated) server is available, so it is likely that the next version of XFree86 will support these cards. For downloads: http://glide.xxedgexx.com/3DfxRPMS_vb_glibc.html ... __________________________ enjoy, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 13:56: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E22B14C0B; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:55:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA29485; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:55:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA00903; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:55:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:55:36 -0800 (PST) Organization: Polstra & Co., Inc. From: John Polstra To: nate@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dladdr(3) question Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, sprice@hiwaay.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I almost forgot. There's some pretty decent ELF documentation here: http://www.sco.com/developer/gabi/contents.html John --- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief." -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 16:13:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-7.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9878615012 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:13:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA01199; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:13:29 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Guy Helmer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ensoniq 1371 support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Guy Helmer wrote: > Does anyone have (or is anyone working on) Ensoniq 1371 sound card > support? I tried adding the 1371's PCI ID to the es1370.c driver, but > during probing the pcm0 continuously printed "timeout errors". This is probably a good indication it's not the same thing. You've basically got three options: * find another sound card * procure documentation, write a driver * procure documentation, and a sample card, and find someone willing to write the driver. If Ensoniq is anything like Yamaha, expect a long wait before they acknoweledge email. If you've got the time, call the company. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 16:43:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BD4FF14E88 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:43:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 24092 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Mar 1999 00:42:54 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:42:54 -0500 (EST) X-Face: *0^4Iw) To: Alex Zepeda Subject: Re: Ensoniq 1371 support Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Guy Helmer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 25-Mar-99 Alex Zepeda wrote: > On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Guy Helmer wrote: > >> Does anyone have (or is anyone working on) Ensoniq 1371 sound card >> support? I tried adding the 1371's PCI ID to the es1370.c driver, but >> during probing the pcm0 continuously printed "timeout errors". > > This is probably a good indication it's not the same thing. You've > basically got three options: > > * find another sound card > * procure documentation, write a driver > * procure documentation, and a sample card, and find someone willing to > write the driver. > > If Ensoniq is anything like Yamaha, expect a long wait before they > acknoweledge email. If you've got the time, call the company. Go to their web site (www.ensoniq.com) and choose tech support. Then search for 1371. The link at the bottom "AC97 Compliant PCI bus" will give you some tech data with a link to a databook on the chip, unfortunately WordPerfect 8 hung trying to convert it, maybe you'll have better luck. The link above that is just called "1371" and has a bunch of info from Creative in pdf format (I think they make it, I have one here in a customer's motherboard - Tyan - that's got the Creative logo on it). Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 17:49:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.243.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E3F814CF2 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:49:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA19694 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 02:49:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 02:49:21 +0100 (CET) From: Oliver Fromme Message-Id: <199903250149.CAA19694@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know a magic combo of 100mbit netbootable PCI cards? Newsgroups: list.freebsd-hackers Organization: Administration Heim 3 Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 RZTUC(3) PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jaye Mathisen wrote in list.freebsd-hackers: > I would like to netboot a couple machines, but I really want 100mbit, and > I would really prefer PCI. > > Anybody know of a combo, or have a combo that would work? We're netbooting a bunch of diskless machines, using intel EtherExpress Pro/100+, FreeBSD 3.0-stable and boot ROMs from www.lanworks.com. I had make a tweaked version of rawboot to get them working, though, the source is at http://www.fromme.com/ramboot.tar.gz Only two drawbacks: - Works with aout kernels only (no ELF). - Cannot load lernel.config files, i.e. you can't do any pnp setup. Regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18/61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) "In jedem Stück Kohle wartet ein Diamant auf seine Geburt" (Terry Pratchett) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 17:54:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.84.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 216E914C30 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:54:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA02637; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:48:23 -0800 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:48:23 -0800 From: Super-User To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Banshee X Server source released In-Reply-To: <36F94D27.5B2069E@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Quick, Quick! Reverse engineer the card! Now that we've got the source, we can discover all the 3dfx trade secrets about poking values into various registers which have revolutionized the way that VGA has been done for the past decade. We'll be rich! We can put them out of business! I'd write more, but I gotta rush off andfinish trying to unobfuscate that NVidia source. Ever since they obsfucated it, I had to stop reproducing their cards, and couldn't figure out their magical trade secrets of their VGA pipeline. Getting tired of video card vendors who are worried about releasing driver specs, Dan On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > This came today in the XFree86/OS2 list: > __________________________ > FYI: > Cards with the Banshee chipset (3DFX) were not available because of lack > of docs. Now the source for a (barely accelerated) server is available, > so it is likely that the next version of XFree86 will support these > cards. For downloads: > http://glide.xxedgexx.com/3DfxRPMS_vb_glibc.html > ... > __________________________ > > enjoy, > > Pedro. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 18:38:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-21.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69B7615071 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:38:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA00294; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:37:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:37:50 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Vince Vielhaber Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Guy Helmer Subject: Re: Ensoniq 1371 support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote: > Go to their web site (www.ensoniq.com) and choose tech support. Then > search for 1371. The link at the bottom "AC97 Compliant PCI bus" > will give you some tech data with a link to a databook on the chip, > unfortunately WordPerfect 8 hung trying to convert it, maybe you'll > have better luck. The link above that is just called "1371" and has a > bunch of info from Creative in pdf format (I think they make it, I have > one here in a customer's motherboard - Tyan - that's got the Creative > logo on it). Well, I didn't look closely at the document, but if you ask me WP has gone downhill from 5.1. I know at one time they made a program called ConvertPerfect... I don't know what happened to my copy, but if they still make it, it could convert nearly anything into nearly anything. Awesome little program. Anyways, I ran the file (which SO5.1 was saved using fast save...) through Word97. Saving it in Word97 format deleted the images. Using PSP to save the images as png and then using word to save the document as HTML seems to have worked mostly. The edges seem trimmed, but I don't think they're crucial. It's at http://redwood203.marin.k12.ca.us/es1371 . The only PCI audio I've got is the Yamaha integrated stuff... so I hope this helps someone. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 19:27:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-46.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9827C14EB9 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:27:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA00491; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:27:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:27:29 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Vince Vielhaber Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Guy Helmer Subject: Re: Ensoniq 1371 support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anyways, I ran the file (which SO5.1 was saved using fast save...) through > Word97. Saving it in Word97 format deleted the images. Using PSP to save > the images as png and then using word to save the document as HTML seems > to have worked mostly. The edges seem trimmed, but I don't think they're > crucial. It's at http://redwood203.marin.k12.ca.us/es1371 . FWIW, I've put a copy of Intel's AC97 spec sheet in this directory too. This should fill in most of the missing information for anyone trying to get the es1371 working. I'm thinking that Yamaha's chip(set) is also ac97 compliant..... - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 21:12:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 936CA14D76 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:11:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00477; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 00:10:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 00:10:16 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Zippy Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Who's maintaining the CTM tree? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Zippy wrote: > Thanks, > > SB There are more than one of us keeping a watch on error messages coming out, every ctm update. Why? We usually catch stuff pretty quickly, but sometimes those listings are big, so it's not incredible that some problems get by for a little while. If you've got a specific problem, what is it? BTW, this is specifically no subject for CTM-announce, please don't use that list for general discussions. That's a low volume list because the folks that subscribe to it WANT it low volume. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 21:38:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC16B1518D for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:38:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA01988 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 00:38:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903250538.AAA01988@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: How many mbufs is enough? Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 00:38:37 -0500 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The machine that we have been having problems with (originally macusers >64), has fallen over again. This time from being out of mbufs. (We are looking to put through the kernel with the larger KVA soon on it). Is there a maximum number of mbufs that a machine can use? -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 22: 5:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E27FB14D00 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:05:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id BAA06094; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 01:05:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (4.1) id xma006087; Thu, 25 Mar 99 01:04:34 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 01:04:29 -0500 (EST) From: Zippy Subject: Re: Who's maintaining the CTM tree? In-reply-to: To: Chuck Robey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just found something curious in 0057. Jordan mentioned that it might be evidence of an inconsistency in the ctm deltas. He also mentioned that he didn't think ctm was being maintained. (I'm very glad it is, as I cannot use cvsup due to stringent firewall restrictions. No, -P doesn't work for me :)) Tell me everything's ok and I won't take his advice and reinstall from the latest snapshots :) The puzzling part, of course, is the version. 3.2-RELEASE? Thanks, SB from release/texts/RELNOTES.txt: RELEASE NOTES FreeBSD Release 3.2-RELEASE Welcome to 3.2-RELEASE, a full follow-on to the 3.1-RELEASE released Feburary 1999 and which marked the beginning of the 3.0-STABLE branch. In the 4 months since 3.1 was released, many hundreds of bug fixes and general enhancements were made to the system. Please see relevant details below. Any installation failures or crashes should be reported by using the send-pr command (those preferring a WEB based interface can also see http://www.freebsd.org/send-pr.html). For information about FreeBSD and the layout of the 3.2-RELEASE directory (especially if you're installing from floppies!), see ABOUT.TXT. For installation instructions, see the INSTALL.TXT and HARDWARE.TXT files. Table of contents: ------------------ 1. What's new since 3.1-RELEASE ... On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Zippy wrote: > > > Thanks, > > > > SB > > There are more than one of us keeping a watch on error messages > coming out, every ctm update. Why? We usually catch stuff pretty > quickly, but sometimes those listings are big, so it's not incredible > that some problems get by for a little while. > > If you've got a specific problem, what is it? > > BTW, this is specifically no subject for CTM-announce, please don't use > that list for general discussions. That's a low volume list because the > folks that subscribe to it WANT it low volume. > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) > (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 22:22:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0FE150A0 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:22:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id QAA27582; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:53:40 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA27950; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:52:32 +0930 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:52:31 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Zippy Cc: Chuck Robey , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who's maintaining the CTM tree? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Zippy wrote: > The puzzling part, of course, is the version. 3.2-RELEASE? Freaky - sounds like some kind of temporal anomaly at work. Did you happen to save the diffs between 3.1 and 3.2? It would save the developers a lot of work :-) Kris ----- The Feynman problem-solving algorithm: 1. Write down the problem 2. Think real hard 3. Write down the solution To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 22:35:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 748D714F67 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:35:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id BAA06830; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 01:35:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (4.1) id xma006819; Thu, 25 Mar 99 01:34:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 01:34:11 -0500 (EST) From: Zippy Subject: Re: Who's maintaining the CTM tree? In-reply-to: To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Chuck Robey , hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I took this offline with Chuck Robey, but I'll repeat some of it here. This was my first time using ctm, so I pulled the deltas from ftp.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/CTM/src-3. I was hoping that this was the 3.1-STABLE track, so I built and installed (over my 3.1-RELEASE). Going through the deltas (just out of curiosity), I found this RELNOTES.TXT (in src-3.0057). I was concerned that either 1) I *wasn't* tracking -STABLE, as I had hoped, or 2) the CTM deltas were corrupted and couldn't be trusted. Add to this the fact that in my brainfried state this evening I was unintentionally rebuilding the kernel with the -RELEASE source trees, and I hope you can understand my concern (and forgive the original post to ctm-announce). So: was this a temporal anomaly, or am I tracking a super-secret 3.2-RELEASE? :) Or, (more likely), is this file intended to be in the 3.1-STABLE dist? Thanks, SB On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Zippy wrote: > > > The puzzling part, of course, is the version. 3.2-RELEASE? > > Freaky - sounds like some kind of temporal anomaly at work. Did you happen to > save the diffs between 3.1 and 3.2? It would save the developers a lot of work > :-) > > Kris > > ----- > The Feynman problem-solving algorithm: 1. Write down the problem > 2. Think real hard > 3. Write down the solution > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 24 23:16:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (Thingol.KryptoKom.DE [194.245.91.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2281F15157 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:16:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from klein@borg.kryptokom.de) Received: (from mail@localhost) by Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA03133 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:16:43 +0100 Received: from cirdan.kryptokom.de by via smtpp (Version 1.1.1beta6) id kwa03131; Thu Mar 25 08:16:27 1999 Received: from borg.kryptokom.de (borg.Kryptokom.DE [192.168.6.132]) by Cirdan.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02412 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:20:44 +0100 Received: (from klein@localhost) by borg.kryptokom.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04895 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:24:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from klein) From: Thomas Klein Message-Id: <199903250724.IAA04895@borg.kryptokom.de> Subject: where is dev/aic6c60 ?? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:24:42 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello I'm trieing to setup my kernel with scsii support for the old ZIP scsii device. On FreeBSD 2.2.8 this works fine. On FreeBSD 3.x it don"t the make depend stopp after an error that the files dev/aic6x60/aic6360.c and i386/isa/aic_isa.c are missing. So, where can I find these device driver? I tried to use the old device driver named aic6360.c but that wont work. It seems so, that the generic (pseudo) scsii device has changed. Has anybody some ideas or comments ?? Thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 0:15:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 014F914E78 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 00:15:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id HAA12081; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:00:38 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199903250600.HAA12081@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Ensoniq 1371 support To: garbanzo@hooked.net (Alex Zepeda) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:00:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: vev@michvhf.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ghelmer@scl.ameslab.gov In-Reply-To: from "Alex Zepeda" at Mar 24, 99 07:27:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1210 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Word97. Saving it in Word97 format deleted the images. Using PSP to save > > the images as png and then using word to save the document as HTML seems > > to have worked mostly. The edges seem trimmed, but I don't think they're > > crucial. It's at http://redwood203.marin.k12.ca.us/es1371 . > > FWIW, I've put a copy of Intel's AC97 spec sheet in this directory too. > This should fill in most of the missing information for anyone trying to > get the es1371 working. I'm thinking that Yamaha's chip(set) is also ac97 > compliant..... the codec is AC97 compliant, but the PCI controller (YMF724) which talks to the codec using a serial protocol is undocumented. All the nice things (from plain DMA control of a single stream to resampling, hardware mixing of up to 64 voices) are done by the '724. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO . EMAIL: luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione HTTP://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 4: 0:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B59531544A for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 03:43:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA07631 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:43:28 GMT (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00654 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:56 GMT (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199903250812.IAA00654@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: SUID/SGID installations in make world Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:56 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Would anyone have any objections to me adding INSTALL= install -C to all Makefiles that install setuid/setgid binaries ? This wouldn't be too much of a ``make install'' overhead and would give sysops a generally warmer feeling with the following nights setuid checks. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 4:20:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32BB11501F for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 04:20:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:18:42 -0000 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: chuckr@mat.net, dillon@apollo.backplane.com Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dm@globalserve.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:18:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Chuck Robey [mailto:chuckr@mat.net] > Sent: 23 March 1999 03:25 > To: Matthew Dillon > Cc: Jordan K. Hubbard; Kevin Day; hasty@rah.star-gate.com; > dm@globalserve.net; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: NFS - Will it ever be fixed? > > > On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > > :3) I personally think that $25,000 would very easily be raised, > > :especially when companies using FreeBSD can make targeted donations > > :towards a goal that they would very clearly benefit from > (nfs). I think > > :the amount that could be gathered in, say, one month will probably > > :surprise everyone (I'm not trying to hold you to $25,000 > here, because I > > :think that might well be too small a guess). > > : > > :4) This wouldn't even have to be completely restricted to > nfs, but it > > :would have to be restricted to a very small, well defined > problem set, > > :of general interest. The funds collected would have to be > funnelled > > :into a fund whose goals are not general, but specific to > this effort. > > > > It isn't quite so easy. It's one thing to raise money to hire > > a programmer familiar enough with the code to be able to fix the > > problems. *Finding* that programmer is a whole > different deal, and > > if you make a mistake that's $25K down the drain. > > I'm not sure he'd be available, but are you saying that if he > had time, > and we were able to offer enough, McKusick couldn't do it? > He's not the > only one I'd have sufficient faith in (read that, if they failed, I'd > feel it was well worth the risk). I'd kinda lke to pay Heidemann to > implement stackable filesystems here. You see what I mean. > This isn't > something we could do a lot (there is a limit to how much > money could be > collected this way) but I think once or twice could be done, and with > potential terrific effect. I think both John Heidemann and Kirk > McKusick would like to do it (although I couldn't guess at > their current > calendar commitments). I don't know how much it'd cost us ... > I think one of the flaws in the thinking here is that this is somehow a "one-off" task. While NFS may be really crufty at the moment and cleaning it up may be a one-off task keeping it working is a long term commitment. As examples, if David and John had been hired to write the unified VM system how long do you think it would have stayed working after their contracts had finished? There are only two ways, in my mind, that FreeBSD can solve these problems. You have people on board who take responsibility for these tasks over the medium to long term just for kicks, which is how we currently work in the main, or you have some commercial company run with the ball and provide commercial support for a particular subsystem. This is largely starting to happen on the user side (sendmail, Sleepy Cat, etc) but as yet hasn't happened much on the kernel side. Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 5:10:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B795414EF5 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 05:10:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10Q9sc-0008r4-00; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:09:02 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Brian Somers Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SUID/SGID installations in make world In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:56 GMT." <199903250812.IAA00654@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:09:02 +0200 Message-ID: <34033.922367342@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:56 GMT, Brian Somers wrote: > Would anyone have any objections to me adding > > INSTALL= install -C > > to all Makefiles that install setuid/setgid binaries ? Hi Brian, This might cut down on the size of the next night's security check mail, but it'd really bugger those of us who use the "make world, reinstall ports, find -ctime" trick to keep the machine crud-free. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 5:29:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (nomad.dataplex.net [216.140.184.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA56314F99 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 05:29:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA00388; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:26:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) X-Authentication-Warning: nomad.dataplex.net: rkw owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:26:58 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Wackerbarth Reply-To: rkw@dataplex.net To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SUID/SGID installations in make world In-Reply-To: <34033.922367342@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:56 GMT, Brian Somers wrote: > > > Would anyone have any objections to me adding > > > > INSTALL= install -C > > > > to all Makefiles that install setuid/setgid binaries ? > > This might cut down on the size of the next night's security check mail, > but it'd really bugger those of us who use the "make world, reinstall > ports, find -ctime" trick to keep the machine crud-free. So how about installing the suid's with INSTALLSUID rather than INSTALL ? Then we can have INSTALLSUID default to INSTALL And Brian can override it in his site configuration. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 5:45:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [212.110.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81785151B2 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 05:44:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.9.2/8.9.2/UCB) id PAA97300; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:41:03 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:41:03 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SUID/SGID installations in make world Message-ID: <19990325154103.B84208@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: Sheldon Hearn , Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199903250812.IAA00654@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> <34033.922367342@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <34033.922367342@axl.noc.iafrica.com>; from Sheldon Hearn on Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 03:09:02PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 03:09:02PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:56 GMT, Brian Somers wrote: > > > Would anyone have any objections to me adding > > > > INSTALL= install -C > > > > to all Makefiles that install setuid/setgid binaries ? > > Hi Brian, > > This might cut down on the size of the next night's security check mail, > but it'd really bugger those of us who use the "make world, reinstall > ports, find -ctime" trick to keep the machine crud-free. > > Ciao, > Sheldon. Moreover, I would like the opposite. Currently, includes are installed with "-C". What for?! If they were installed with "-c", it would be easy to determine what includes can be removed. To work around this I often rename /usr/includes to /usr/includes.old before installing the world. Later, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 5:58:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E0A14E2F for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 05:58:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10QAal-000E60-00; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:54:39 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SUID/SGID installations in make world In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:41:03 +0200." <19990325154103.B84208@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:54:39 +0200 Message-ID: <54187.922370079@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:41:03 +0200, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > Moreover, I would like the opposite. > Currently, includes are installed with "-C". What for?! For people who don't care. Those who do should define CLOBBER. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 6:26:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from amalthea.salford.ac.uk (amalthea.salford.ac.uk [146.87.255.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CEE0014F3E for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 06:26:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from M.S.Powell@ais.salford.ac.uk) Received: (qmail 11894 invoked by alias); 25 Mar 1999 14:25:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 11888 invoked from network); 25 Mar 1999 14:25:03 -0000 Received: from plato.salford.ac.uk (146.87.255.76) by amalthea.salford.ac.uk with SMTP; 25 Mar 1999 14:25:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 38047 invoked by alias); 25 Mar 1999 14:25:02 -0000 Delivered-To: catchall-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: (qmail 38038 invoked by uid 141); 25 Mar 1999 14:25:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:57:06 +0000 (GMT) From: Mark Powell To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: NTP problems. This hardware related? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Running xntpd on a new server in just the same was as I do on every other. However, I noticed this machines clock was way out after a few days. The machine does an "ntpdate -b" at bootup, but can't sync the time. From ntp log: Mar 4 11:32:33 mimas xntpd[111]: offset 0.000000 freq 11.708 poll 6 Mar 4 12:32:33 mimas xntpd[111]: offset 0.000000 freq 11.708 poll 6 Mar 4 13:32:33 mimas xntpd[111]: offset 0.000000 freq 11.708 poll 6 Mar 4 14:32:33 mimas xntpd[111]: offset 0.000000 freq 11.708 poll 6 Mar 4 15:32:33 mimas xntpd[111]: offset 0.000000 freq 11.708 poll 6 The offsets are always o and the 11.708, from /etc/ntp.drift never changes. I changed to having "ntpdate

..." run from cron. Again from ntp log: ntpdate[6478]: step time server 146.87.255.63 offset -2.495694 ntpdate[6481]: step time server 146.87.255.63 offset -2.495796 ntpdate[6489]: step time server 146.87.255.63 offset -2.498253 This machine is gaining ~2.5s every minute! No wonder xntpd can't sync the time. Am I right here? Is that why it's failing? Looking at the clocks at boot up, it would appear that over 40 reboots, the TSC clock has varied from 126668897 to 132002659, a variance of almost 5%. Is this normal? Could this be causing the time problems, and if so is there anyway I can fiddle with tickadj or something to let xntpd work on this machine? Cheers. Mark Powell - System Administrator (UNIX) - Clifford Whitworth Building A.I.S., University of Salford, Salford, Manchester, UK. Tel: +44 161 295 5936 Fax: +44 161 295 5888 www.pgp.com for PGP key M.S.Powell@ais.salfrd.ac.uk (spell salford correctly to reply to me) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 7:37:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CEC14DCC for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:37:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA25529; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:35:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA23921; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:35:42 -0700 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:35:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199903251535.IAA23921@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SUID/SGID installations in make world In-Reply-To: <19990325154103.B84208@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> References: <199903250812.IAA00654@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> <34033.922367342@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19990325154103.B84208@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Moreover, I would like the opposite. > Currently, includes are installed with "-C". What for?! So dependencies work, for those who have better things to do with their time than to look for old files. :) I want to know what's out of date, and let the computer only build those files for me, rather than relying on 'make world' every other week. My computer is used for things other than building FreeBSD sources. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 8:29:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.westsound.com (mail.westsound.com [206.129.4.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7F714CF6 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:29:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from patrick@westsound.com) Received: from admin-1 (admin-1.westsound.com [206.129.4.26]) by mail.westsound.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA12977 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:18:11 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990325083805.00d696d8@mail.westsound.com> X-Sender: patrick@mail.westsound.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:38:05 -0800 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Patrick Vierheilig Subject: WaveLan 802.11 driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, After searching what I believe to be all relevant areas of the archives, I can't seem to find an answer: Does the wl0 driver for the pre-802.11 Lucent WaveLan cards work with the 'newer' 802.11 compliant cards? Thanks! Sincerely, Patrick Vierheilig President Westsound Communications, Inc. 360.427.0227/888.924.1244 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 9:26:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B2614BDB for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:26:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:24:20 -0000 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: We're not that different Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:24:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is probably asking for trouble since it's not even remotely FreeBSD related (then again it sort of is, see points below). Some of you may have seen it but a little light relief is a good thing at times :-) If nothing else, it shows our lists are not unusual in their make of postings :-) -------- > >Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a > >light bulb? > > > >A: 1,343 > > > >1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that > the light > >bulb has been changed; > > > >14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the > >light bulb could have been changed differently; > > > >7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs; > > > >27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light > >bulbs; > > > >53 to flame the spell checkers; > > > >41 to correct spelling/grammar flames; > > > >6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb"; > > > >another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive; > > > >156 to write to the list administrator about the light bulb > discussion > >and its inappropriateness to this mail list; > > > >109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to > please take > >this email exchange to litebulb-l; > > > >203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l and > >illuminati-l about changing light bulbs be stopped; > > > >111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light > >bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this mail list; > > > >306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where > >to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for > >this > >technique and what brands are faulty; > > > >27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs; > > > >14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the > >corrected URL's; > > > >3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to > >this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list; > > > >33 to link all posts to date, then quote them including all headers > >and footers and then add "Me too"; > > > >12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because > they cannot > >handle the light bulb controversy; > > > >19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three"; > > > >4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ; > > > >44 to ask what is "FAQ"; > > > >4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago on > >Usenet?" > > > >143 to ask "what's Usenet?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 10: 3:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lily.ezo.net (lily.ezo.net [206.102.130.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C224814C3F for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:03:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jflowers@ezo.net) Received: from crocus (c3-1d196.neo.rr.com [24.93.233.196]) by lily.ezo.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15988; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:02:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001d01be76e9$b2e87970$23b197ce@ezo.net> From: "Jim Flowers" To: , "Patrick Vierheilig" References: <3.0.1.32.19990325083805.00d696d8@mail.westsound.com> Subject: Re: WaveLan 802.11 driver Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:02:50 -0500 Organization: EZNets, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG No, at least when I looked at it last summer it didn't The problem seemed to be that the new 802.11 cards look around for a WavePoint to join (and there wasn't one) and I just wanted to use ad-hoc networking. I think I saw a tech note that a WaveLan software upgrade allowed ad-hoc for demo purposes so maybe that's not a problem now. I really don't like the new cards at all so I haven't checked it out since. When I can't get the old ISA cards any longer I'll switch to a different manufacturer. ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Vierheilig To: Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 11:38 AM Subject: WaveLan 802.11 driver > Greetings, > > After searching what I believe to be all relevant areas of the archives, I > can't seem to find an answer: > > Does the wl0 driver for the pre-802.11 Lucent WaveLan cards work with the > 'newer' 802.11 compliant cards? > > Thanks! > > > Sincerely, > > Patrick Vierheilig > President > Westsound Communications, Inc. > 360.427.0227/888.924.1244 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 10:15:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9937E14D1D for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:15:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00419; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:14:44 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:14:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: We're not that different In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You forgot: 13 "Subscribe" On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 paul@originative.co.uk wrote: > This is probably asking for trouble since it's not even remotely FreeBSD > related (then again it sort of is, see points below). Some of you may have > seen it but a little light relief is a good thing at times :-) > > If nothing else, it shows our lists are not unusual in their make of > postings :-) > -------- > > > >Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a > > >light bulb? > > > > > >A: 1,343 > > > > > >1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that > > the light > > >bulb has been changed; > > > > > >14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the > > >light bulb could have been changed differently; > > > > > >7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs; > > > > > >27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light > > >bulbs; > > > > > >53 to flame the spell checkers; > > > > > >41 to correct spelling/grammar flames; > > > > > >6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb"; > > > > > >another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive; > > > > > >156 to write to the list administrator about the light bulb > > discussion > > >and its inappropriateness to this mail list; > > > > > >109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to > > please take > > >this email exchange to litebulb-l; > > > > > >203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l and > > >illuminati-l about changing light bulbs be stopped; > > > > > >111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light > > >bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this mail list; > > > > > >306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where > > >to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for > > >this > > >technique and what brands are faulty; > > > > > >27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs; > > > > > >14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the > > >corrected URL's; > > > > > >3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to > > >this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list; > > > > > >33 to link all posts to date, then quote them including all headers > > >and footers and then add "Me too"; > > > > > >12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because > > they cannot > > >handle the light bulb controversy; > > > > > >19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three"; > > > > > >4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ; > > > > > >44 to ask what is "FAQ"; > > > > > >4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago on > > >Usenet?" > > > > > >143 to ask "what's Usenet?" > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 10:36:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC7A14DDB for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:36:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id NAA11209 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:36:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:36:01 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: A Question about MTU and ICMP Need to Frag Message-ID: <19990325103601.C11010@orbit.flnet.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a question.. I have a system with two interfaces fxp0 and fxp1, fxp1 is the external interface (to the world) fxp0 is the internal interface (net 10). If I alter the mtu on the external interface to something rediculous like 128 bytes, then connect to sites around the net, as far as I can tell, no ICMP need to frag packets are being generated (watching with tcpdump), but everything is working peachy keen. However, if I alter the mtu on the internal interface.. Connections out to the internet cause ICMP need to frag packets to be generated. The question I have is, shouldnt an ICMP need to frag packet be generated in all cases? If not, what magic is going on to get the outside world to talk in the smaller packet size? Thanks! -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 11:34:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C9414F19 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:34:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA22893; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:34:12 GMT (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04087; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:49:07 GMT (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199903251449.OAA04087@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SUID/SGID installations in make world In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:09:02 +0200." <34033.922367342@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:49:07 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:56 GMT, Brian Somers wrote: > > > Would anyone have any objections to me adding > > > > INSTALL= install -C > > > > to all Makefiles that install setuid/setgid binaries ? > > Hi Brian, > > This might cut down on the size of the next night's security check mail, > but it'd really bugger those of us who use the "make world, reinstall > ports, find -ctime" trick to keep the machine crud-free. That objection's good enough for me :-) > Ciao, > Sheldon. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 11:34:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51E2C14DD6 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:34:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (keep.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.8]) by awfulhak.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA22896; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:34:13 GMT (envelope-from brian@lan.awfulhak.org) Received: from keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by keep.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04074; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:48:10 GMT (envelope-from brian@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199903251448.OAA04074@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SUID/SGID installations in make world In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:41:03 +0200." <19990325154103.B84208@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:48:10 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 03:09:02PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:12:56 GMT, Brian Somers wrote: > > > > > Would anyone have any objections to me adding > > > > > > INSTALL= install -C > > > > > > to all Makefiles that install setuid/setgid binaries ? > > > > Hi Brian, > > > > This might cut down on the size of the next night's security check mail, > > but it'd really bugger those of us who use the "make world, reinstall > > ports, find -ctime" trick to keep the machine crud-free. > > > > Ciao, > > Sheldon. > > Moreover, I would like the opposite. > Currently, includes are installed with "-C". What for?! > > If they were installed with "-c", it would be easy > to determine what includes can be removed. > > To work around this I often rename /usr/includes to > /usr/includes.old before installing the world. And don't forget /usr/libexec/libdata and /usr/share :-) > Later, > -- > Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the > ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank > +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine > > http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve > http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 11:40:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from otto.oss.uswest.net (otto.oss.uswest.net [204.147.85.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2938B14DD6 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:40:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pmckenna@otto.oss.uswest.net) Received: (from pmckenna@localhost) by otto.oss.uswest.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) id NAA19709 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:39:03 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from pmckenna) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:39:03 -0600 (CST) From: Pete Mckenna To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: unattended install Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There was a thread awhile back about auto installs using /usr/src/release/sysinstall/install.cfg on a boot floopy. Has anyone been able to make this work ? I have ben trying on 2.2.8 and 3.1 without success. The floppy images are created but they run the standard install menu. I've tried setting the LOAD_CONFIG_FILE install.cfg but this hasn't seemed to help, Does it need path info ? Pointers, from someone who's actually made this work, would be appreciated. I believe Mike Smith was lending guidance ealier but the thread just kind of ended without any resolution that I can find. Thanks Pete ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Pete Mckenna Date: 25-Mar-99 Time: 13:29:08 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 11:55:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05DBE1508D for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:55:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24189 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:55:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:55:03 -0500 (EST) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199903251955.OAA24189@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Apple's Open Source Projects Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Apple has released source code for its OS X server under some kind of public license (http://www.publicsource.apple.com), has anybody looked at it yet? -lq To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 12: 8:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com (gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com [151.145.250.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3356F14C49 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:08:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com) Received: by gatewaya.anheuser-busch.com; id OAA29576; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:00:26 -0600 Received: from stlabcexg006.anheuser-busch.com(stlabcexg006 151.145.101.161) by gatewaya via smap (V2.1) id xma029547; Thu, 25 Mar 99 13:59:57 -0600 Received: by stlabcexg006.anheuser-busch.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:03:05 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Alton, Matthew" To: "'Luoqi Chen'" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Apple's Open Source Projects Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:02:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It's Mach 2.5 + many BSD utilities + a new Apple license header on each file. They took already-free-ware and restricted it a bit (or not depending on whether you're Bruce Perens or Open Source Initiative). I think it's probably a Good Thing. I'm surprised that commercial-land has come even this far this fast. The MacOS GUI is not there, however. I imagine it's a sort of NextStep without 4.3BSD license issues minus the heinous coherent C hooks. > -----Original Message----- > From: Luoqi Chen [SMTP:luoqi@watermarkgroup.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 1:55 PM > To: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Apple's Open Source Projects > > Apple has released source code for its OS X server under some kind of public > license (http://www.publicsource.apple.com), has anybody looked at it yet? > > -lq > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 12:27:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C2D6C14F6C for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:27:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 29069 invoked from network); 25 Mar 1999 20:27:30 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 1999 20:27:30 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:26:54 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: fbsdboot.exe and 3.1? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anybody made this work? It fails for me instantly with a "bad format". To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 12:32: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from local-motion.rutgers.edu (local-motion.rutgers.edu [128.6.5.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F6314F6C for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:32:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from talukdar@local-motion.rutgers.edu) Received: (from talukdar@localhost) by local-motion.rutgers.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18352 for freeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:31:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:31:45 -0500 (EST) From: Anup Talukdar Message-Id: <199903252031.PAA18352@local-motion.rutgers.edu> To: freeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Soundcard problem Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am trying to use the soundcard in my laptop. I have the following setup : Dell Latitude XPi P133ST laptop with the following audio specifications : Audio type : Soundblaster Pro-compatible 3.01 Audio controller : ES1888 According to the Dell reference guide, the default resource settings are : DMA channel : 1 IRQ line : 5 Port address : 220h However, if I use Port address 220h for device sb0, the device is not detected. If the Kernel configuration file I have include the following lines : controller snd0 device sb0 at isa? port 0x230 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x300 After making and installing the new kernel, I get the following messages when rebooting the machine : sb0 at 0x230 irq 5 drq 1 on isa sb0: sbxvi0 not found sbmidi0 not found at 0x300 After this, I tried to play an audio file by executing : "cat danube.au > /dev/audio" It returns the following error messages : >Sound: DMA timed out - IRQ/DRQ config error? >SoundBlaster: DSP Command(40) Timeout. >IRQ conflict??? It will be of great help if anyone can inform what I am doing wrong here and what will be the apprpriate IRQ/DRQ settings for the above configuration. Since I don't subscribe to this mailing list, I will appreciate if the responses are sent directly to my e-mail address : talukdar@paul.rutgers.edu Thank you, Regards, Anup To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 12:40:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (nomad.nobell.com [216.140.184.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE72C1537D for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:40:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA01001 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:40:13 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) X-Authentication-Warning: nomad.dataplex.net: rkw owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:40:13 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Wackerbarth Reply-To: rkw@dataplex.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Booting from non-standard floppy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I needed to cram "a few more bytes" on a floppy. After doing the fdformat and writing everything, I tried to boot it. Unfortunately, it fails with "Not ufs". Looking through the bootstraps, it appears that the new loader is using the bios to actually read the floppy. As long as I stay on track 0, everything is fine. However, even after we have loaded "boot2", we still use the bios's idea of the format rather than the disklabel which has the actual values. Unfortunately, the fs description extends beyond the first track. It's been a long time since I wrote bootstrap loaders. But, as I recall, the "bios" read the 0th sector (boot1) and jumped to it. That short piece of code got the disk format from the label and read in the next piece of the loader. After that, address->c.t.s was under the software control. Is there some reason we no longer do this? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 12:44: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944C715371 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:43:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA090292561; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:09:21 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:09:21 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Anup Talukdar Cc: freeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Soundcard problem In-Reply-To: <199903252031.PAA18352@local-motion.rutgers.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Anup Talukdar wrote: > controller snd0 > > device sb0 at isa? port 0x230 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr > device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 > device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x300 Look into pcm, it will probably solve your woes. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 13: 3: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF4015576; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:02:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@leaf.lumiere.net) Received: (from j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA00571; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:02:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:02:33 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm running a server on FreeBSD-STABLE, about a week since the last make world. I was doing some stress testing with the icecast server (icecast.org) which is an open replacement for Nullsoft's shoutcast server. It comes with a stresstest app which opens a bunch of connections to the server. I found that when I opened 40 connections to the server (localhost), the machine crashed. The icecast server is running as a normal user. I haven't been able to get to the console yet so I don't know if there's more info there. I'll be investigating that shortly. At first I thought, okay, maybe a bug in the loopback driver. So I tried it from another machine on the network. Same result. Just to make sure it wasn't something specific to the icecast server, I enabled chargen in /etc/inetd.conf and did another stress test over the network. It survived 40 connections, so I tried 100. It was fine. I tried 200 and the server crashed. It seems like the server crashed when it receives many connections that require a high amount of data be sent back (icecast, which is mp3 streams or chargen). Anyone have any idea what's going on? I really hate to think that my server can be crashed this easily. I did similar stress testing with the icecast server on my laptop, running Linux 2.0.36 and it accepted 300 connections (vs. less than 40) without a problem. If Linux can do it, I know FreeBSD can. Hope someone has some ideas. Thanks in advance. --- Jesse http://www.lumiere.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 13: 7:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0BADD1557D; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:07:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id TAA13401; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:53:29 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199903251853.TAA13401@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects To: j@lumiere.net (Jesse) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:53:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jesse" at Mar 25, 99 01:02:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1818 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > I'm running a server on FreeBSD-STABLE, about a week since the last make > world. > > I was doing some stress testing with the icecast server (icecast.org) aren't you running out of mbufs by chance ? (it should not crash, but increasing the value could help...) luigi > which is an open replacement for Nullsoft's shoutcast server. It comes > with a stresstest app which opens a bunch of connections to the server. > > I found that when I opened 40 connections to the server (localhost), the > machine crashed. The icecast server is running as a normal user. I haven't > been able to get to the console yet so I don't know if there's more info > there. I'll be investigating that shortly. > > At first I thought, okay, maybe a bug in the loopback driver. So I tried > it from another machine on the network. Same result. > > Just to make sure it wasn't something specific to the icecast server, I > enabled chargen in /etc/inetd.conf and did another stress test over the > network. It survived 40 connections, so I tried 100. It was fine. I tried > 200 and the server crashed. > > It seems like the server crashed when it receives many connections that > require a high amount of data be sent back (icecast, which is mp3 streams > or chargen). > > Anyone have any idea what's going on? I really hate to think that my > server can be crashed this easily. I did similar stress testing with the > icecast server on my laptop, running Linux 2.0.36 and it accepted 300 > connections (vs. less than 40) without a problem. If Linux can do it, I > know FreeBSD can. > > Hope someone has some ideas. Thanks in advance. > > --- > Jesse > http://www.lumiere.net/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 13:10: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84391557D; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:10:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@leaf.lumiere.net) Received: (from j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA00693; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:09:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:09:41 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: <199903251853.TAA13401@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > aren't you running out of mbufs by chance ? (it should not crash, but > increasing the value could help...) It definitely does crash. Any recommended value for mbufs and/or any other settings while I'm recompiling the kernel? --- Jesse http://www.lumiere.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 13:10:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B605515476 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:10:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 25437 invoked from network); 25 Mar 1999 21:09:48 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 1999 21:09:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:09:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Ugh, new boot loader/diskless boot problem. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I got a couple boot proms for an Intel PRO100 care from www.incom.de. Set up my trusty tftp/bootp stuff, card boots a DOS diskette image remotely just fine. So then I try a 2.8MB DOS image. Works fine. Put fbsdboot.exe and /kernel on the image. Boots the DOS part fine, but fbsdboot.exe won't work. So then I try a kernel.flp diskette from 3.1-stable. It loads the kernel floppy fine via TFTP, but then can't start the actual boot process, failing with a "Read Error". This PROM boots a SolariS X86 floppy remotely fine. It boots Linux floppies fine, it boots DOS floppies fine, but it won't boot our FreeBSD blocks. It will not boot a 2.2.8 floppy set of boot blocks either. Any ideas much appreciated. I'd really like to remote boot these, and getting this working would be great for supporting a whole bunches of cards and remote boot, since the incom people make PROM's for something like 100+ cards... I would be willing to send a card and PROM to somebody to play with if it would help... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 13:10:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CD3153A9 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:10:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA08740; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:09:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:09:16 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Luoqi Chen Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apple's Open Source Projects In-Reply-To: <199903251955.OAA24189@lor.watermarkgroup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yes I've been looking at it.. There's alot we can look at.. I'm even tempted to see what it would take to add a FreeBSD compatibility to it.. that way we would have two radically different (MACH and UNIX) kernels to play with... On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Luoqi Chen wrote: > Apple has released source code for its OS X server under some kind of public > license (http://www.publicsource.apple.com), has anybody looked at it yet? > > -lq > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 13:14:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6201B153F6; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:14:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id TAA13450; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:59:51 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199903251859.TAA13450@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects To: j@lumiere.net (Jesse) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:59:50 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jesse" at Mar 25, 99 01:09:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 292 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > aren't you running out of mbufs by chance ? (it should not crash, but > > increasing the value could help...) > > It definitely does crash. Any recommended value for mbufs and/or any other > settings while I'm recompiling the kernel? i generally use options "NMBCLUSTERS=4096" luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 13:17:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B379A14D1D; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:17:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id UAA13471; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:03:16 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199903251903.UAA13471@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects To: j@lumiere.net (Jesse) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:03:16 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jesse" at Mar 25, 99 01:09:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 471 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > aren't you running out of mbufs by chance ? (it should not crash, but > > increasing the value could help...) > > It definitely does crash. i trust you -- i suspect there is some piece of the code somewhere which does not check for mcopy/mpullup/etc failures. in fact it would be nice to know if there is some reproducible way to trigger these crashes because i think this is a problem that ought to be fixed in a better way than overallocating resources. luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 13:19:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A96714EC8; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:19:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@leaf.lumiere.net) Received: (from j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA00906; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:18:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:18:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: <199903251903.UAA13471@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It definitely does crash. > > i trust you -- i suspect there is some piece of the code somewhere > which does not check for mcopy/mpullup/etc failures. Hmm. > in fact it would be nice to know if there is some reproducible way to > trigger these crashes because i think this is a problem that ought to > be fixed in a better way than overallocating resources. I agree. I can definitely reproduce the crash at will (at least, with current kernel settings, I'm recompiling now). All I have to do is start the icecast server and open 40 connections, or enable chargen and open 200 connections. --- Jesse http://www.lumiere.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 13:32:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1065414D03; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:32:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@leaf.lumiere.net) Received: (from j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA04145; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:31:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:31:53 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just to provide a little bit more info, Alex, one of the developers of icecast said that a person running OpenBSD had kernel panics under similar conditions but that it was never resolved. The machine is remote, but I can have someone stand by and record the kernel panic message while I crash it, if you it'd be useful (probably). --- Jesse http://www.lumiere.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 13:44:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B7014C3F for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:44:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10QHtH-0009Ic-00; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:42:15 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Brian Somers Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SUID/SGID installations in make world In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:49:07 GMT." <199903251449.OAA04087@keep.lan.Awfulhak.org> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:42:15 +0200 Message-ID: <35749.922398135@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:49:07 GMT, Brian Somers wrote: > That objection's good enough for me :-) Am I the only guy around here who finds himself having to withdraw objections on a regular basis? ;-) I think the idea is cool. I'd just like the implementation to avoid blowing up the current behaviour. If I had to flip a switch in make.conf to keep things working the way they do now after your change, I wouldn't squeal. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14: 3:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358AE14D21; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:03:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@leaf.lumiere.net) Received: (from j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA00423; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:03:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:03:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: <199903251903.UAA13471@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > i trust you -- i suspect there is some piece of the code somewhere > which does not check for mcopy/mpullup/etc failures. > > in fact it would be nice to know if there is some reproducible way to > trigger these crashes because i think this is a problem that ought to > be fixed in a better way than overallocating resources. Okay, I updated the NMBCLUSTERS to 4096. This allowed me to get 40 clients on successfully. Here's an netstat -m with 40 clients connected: leaf:~# netstat -m 1076/1792 mbufs in use: 1025 mbufs allocated to data 51 mbufs allocated to packet headers 1023/1620/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 3464 Kbytes allocated to network (62% in use) 0 requests for memory denied 0 requests for memory delayed 0 calls to protocol drain routines So I tried 60 clients. It crashed after the 56 client connected. I was doing netstat -m the entire time until the moment it crashed. The last one showed: leaf:~# netstat -m 4637/4704 mbufs in use: 4565 mbufs allocated to data 72 mbufs allocated to packet headers 4564/4604/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 9796 Kbytes allocated to network (99% in use) 0 requests for memory denied 0 requests for memory delayed 0 calls to protocol drain routines So it definitely appears to be an mbuf issue. Is it normal for something to use mbuf's so quickly? Each client is being sent a 128kbps stream. I know sites like ftp.cdrom.com transfer MUCH more than this per second.. soo.. It'd of course be nicer to see FreeBSD be 'fixed' to not crash in this situation, but is there anything that the authors of icecast can do to help reduce their mbuf usage? Lastly, is it safe to raise my nmbclusters higher than 4096? Like 10000? What are the downsides? --- Jesse http://www.lumiere.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14: 7:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU (helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.131.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333B314F76 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:07:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmacd@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU) Received: (from jmacd@localhost) by helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id OAA18233; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:06:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19990325140650.63224@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:06:50 -0800 From: Josh MacDonald To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: gdb 4.17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Will the system-supported debugger be upgraded to gdb 4.17? There are a number of deficiencies in 4.16 and the release has been available for 11 months. I notice problems with gdb 4.16 everytime I use it on FreeBSD, which is daily. Two years of bugfixes went into 4.17, it really is essential for FreeBSD to remain a viable development platform, especially for debugging C++. It also is difficult to debug egcs code with 4.16--that's another reason it should be supported. -josh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14: 8:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2293E14E37; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:08:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA121217578; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:32:58 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:32:58 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Jesse Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ this really shouldn't be x-posted ] On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jesse wrote: > > i trust you -- i suspect there is some piece of the code somewhere > > which does not check for mcopy/mpullup/etc failures. > > > > in fact it would be nice to know if there is some reproducible way to > > trigger these crashes because i think this is a problem that ought to > > be fixed in a better way than overallocating resources. > > Okay, I updated the NMBCLUSTERS to 4096. This allowed me to get 40 clients > on successfully. Here's an netstat -m with 40 clients connected: > > leaf:~# netstat -m > 1076/1792 mbufs in use: > 1025 mbufs allocated to data > 51 mbufs allocated to packet headers > 1023/1620/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) > 3464 Kbytes allocated to network (62% in use) Wow that's high. > > So I tried 60 clients. It crashed after the 56 client connected. I was > doing netstat -m the entire time until the moment it crashed. The last one > showed: > > leaf:~# netstat -m > 4637/4704 mbufs in use: > 4565 mbufs allocated to data > 72 mbufs allocated to packet headers > 4564/4604/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) > 9796 Kbytes allocated to network (99% in use) Crunch. > So it definitely appears to be an mbuf issue. Definitely. Could you get some statistics on mbuf/client, for instance, which we could use to determine if the climb is linear or exponential. > Is it normal for something to use mbuf's so quickly? Each client is being > sent a 128kbps stream. I know sites like ftp.cdrom.com transfer MUCH more > than this per second.. soo.. This is certainly a bug of some sort. > It'd of course be nicer to see FreeBSD be 'fixed' to not crash in this > situation, but is there anything that the authors of icecast can do to > help reduce their mbuf usage? Does the machine panic or just crash, that would at least be the first step is just to get FreeBSD to panic. > Lastly, is it safe to raise my nmbclusters higher than 4096? Like 10000? > What are the downsides? Death or memory problems I can't remember which. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:10:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9AD514D9D; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:10:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA10737; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:09:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:09:57 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Jesse Cc: Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jesse wrote: > > Just to provide a little bit more info, Alex, one of the developers of > icecast said that a person running OpenBSD had kernel panics under similar > conditions but that it was never resolved. > > The machine is remote, but I can have someone stand by and record the > kernel panic message while I crash it, if you it'd be useful (probably). the corefile would be better.... :-) > > --- > Jesse > http://www.lumiere.net/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:11:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0117152F3; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:11:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@leaf.lumiere.net) Received: (from j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA00583; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:11:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:11:29 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse To: Julian Elischer Cc: Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The machine is remote, but I can have someone stand by and record the > > kernel panic message while I crash it, if you it'd be useful (probably). > > the corefile would be better.... :-) How would I go about getting this? Do I have to specify some special coredump location or something? --- Jesse http://www.lumiere.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:20:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C801314E06; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:20:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA03456; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:20:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:20:13 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903252220.OAA03456@apollo.backplane.com> To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Jesse , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG netstat -tn output would be useful -- figure out what is eating so much memory. You should be able to raise NMBCLUSTERS to 8192 easily, and possibly even higher. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:27:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F44715452 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:27:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA03546; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:26:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:26:54 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903252226.OAA03546@apollo.backplane.com> To: Julian Elischer Cc: Luoqi Chen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apple's Open Source Projects References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Yes I've been looking at it.. : :There's alot we can look at.. :I'm even tempted to see what it would take to add a FreeBSD :compatibility to it.. :that way we would have two radically different (MACH and UNIX) :kernels to play with... : :On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Luoqi Chen wrote: : :> Apple has released source code for its OS X server under some kind of public :> license (http://www.publicsource.apple.com), has anybody looked at it yet? :... Or give FreeBSD the ability to run OS X binaries in a power-pc port. That would be very useful. I would, today, run out and buy OS X ( software ) if I could run it on a FreeBSD box. Then I could run Apple apps. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:27:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC7AB1511D; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:10:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA10713; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:08:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:08:55 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Jesse Cc: Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG can you get a core-dump? (and a kernel compiled with config -g to supply symbols) On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jesse wrote: > > > > It definitely does crash. > > > > i trust you -- i suspect there is some piece of the code somewhere > > which does not check for mcopy/mpullup/etc failures. > > Hmm. > > > in fact it would be nice to know if there is some reproducible way to > > trigger these crashes because i think this is a problem that ought to > > be fixed in a better way than overallocating resources. > > I agree. I can definitely reproduce the crash at will (at least, with > current kernel settings, I'm recompiling now). All I have to do is start > the icecast server and open 40 connections, or enable chargen and open 200 > connections. > > --- > Jesse > http://www.lumiere.net/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:29:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8268715109; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:29:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@leaf.lumiere.net) Received: (from j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA01169; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:29:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:29:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse To: Bill Fumerola Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Definitely. Could you get some statistics on mbuf/client, for instance, > which we could use to determine if the climb is linear or exponential. Okay, I got my stats. Keep in mind that in each case, the mbuf's would vary +-200 but I tried to get an average value. Also, particularly in icecast's case, the number of mbuf's used would be higher in the first 20 seconds of connection, then drop down some. I also compared shoutcast, another program which does the same thing. It spawns a child for each client through (as opposed to a single process). ICECAST -- 10 Clients 281/1752/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 3760 Kbytes allocated to network (16% in use) ICECAST -- 20 Clients 513/1752/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 3760 Kbytes allocated to network (29% in use) ICECAST -- 30 Clients 860/1752/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 3760 Kbytes allocated to network (48% in use) ICECAST -- 40 Clients 1023/1620/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 3464 Kbytes allocated to network (62% in use) ICECSAT -- 50 Clients 3340/3884/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 8268 Kbytes allocated to network (85% in use) ICECAST -- 60 Clients (crash at 56) 4564/4604/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 9796 Kbytes allocated to network (99% in use) SHOUTCAST -- 40 Clients 435/702/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 1528 Kbytes allocated to network (61% in use) SHOUTCAST -- 60 Clients 843/980/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 2112 Kbytes allocated to network (86% in use) SHOUTCAST -- 100 Clients 1717/1752/4096 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 3760 Kbytes allocated to network (97% in use) > > Is it normal for something to use mbuf's so quickly? Each client is being > > sent a 128kbps stream. I know sites like ftp.cdrom.com transfer MUCH more > > than this per second.. soo.. > > This is certainly a bug of some sort. Seeing them compared to shoutcast's, I'd tend to agree. Still, crashing really sucks. :/ > Does the machine panic or just crash, that would at least be the first > step is just to get FreeBSD to panic. I don't know, the machine is remote. I think I'm going to figure out how to get a panic core dump, then have someone watch it and record the info when it dies. --- Jesse http://www.lumiere.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:31:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 496A114A14 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:31:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id RAA19463; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:30:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:30:12 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199903252230.RAA19463@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jmacd@CS.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Will the system-supported debugger be upgraded to gdb 4.17? There > are a number of deficiencies in 4.16 and the release has been available > for 11 months. I notice problems with gdb 4.16 everytime I use it on > FreeBSD, which is daily. Two years of bugfixes went into 4.17, it really > is essential for FreeBSD to remain a viable development platform, > especially for debugging C++. It also is difficult to debug egcs > code with 4.16--that's another reason it should be supported. There's a port for 4.17 sitting in the PR system, if you want to try it. It's also at: ftp://ftp.pcnet.com/users/eischen/FreeBSD/gdb-4.17-port.tar.gz It includes patches for all the FreeBSD changes to 4.16 that I could find. Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:32: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D63EE14EA8; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:31:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA03635; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:31:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:31:28 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903252231.OAA03635@apollo.backplane.com> To: Jesse Cc: Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Just to provide a little bit more info, Alex, one of the developers of :icecast said that a person running OpenBSD had kernel panics under similar :conditions but that it was never resolved. : :The machine is remote, but I can have someone stand by and record the :kernel panic message while I crash it, if you it'd be useful (probably). : :--- :Jesse :http://www.lumiere.net/ On the face of it it sounds to me like icecast is perhaps making the socket buffers bigger --- maybe too big. The default socket buffer size is 16K receiving, 16K sending. 40 x 16K x 2 = 1MB. If icecast is increasing the size of the socket buffers, this value can explode. netstat -tn on a running system ought to give you some idea about that by seeing how backed-up the socket buffers get. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:41:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D328814A23; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:41:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA133919608; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:06:48 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:06:48 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Jesse Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jesse wrote: > I also compared shoutcast, another program which does the same thing. It > spawns a child for each client through (as opposed to a single process). [ some number crunching on my TI-85 ...] If you think that the growth is linear (I don't) y = 85x - 1242 If you think the growth is exponential (I do, this fits a lot nicer.) y = 2.2x^2 - 75x + 900 Where x is the amount of clients. and y is the mbufs in use. I don't know if that helps any developers, but it sure was fun. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:42:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC38314EF5; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:42:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@leaf.lumiere.net) Received: (from j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA01393; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:42:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:42:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: <199903252231.OAA03635@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > On the face of it it sounds to me like icecast is perhaps making the > socket buffers bigger --- maybe too big. The default socket buffer > size is 16K receiving, 16K sending. 40 x 16K x 2 = 1MB. If > icecast is increasing the size of the socket buffers, this value can > explode. netstat -tn on a running system ought to give you some idea > about that by seeing how backed-up the socket buffers get. That certainly seems like the case. Assuming this is the culprit, is it still worthwhile to get the coredump/panic info to see why it's crashing? Here's the output of netstat -tn with 43 clients connected (icecast): leaf:~# netstat -tn Active Internet connections Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address (state) tcp 0 28086 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2229 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 28086 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2228 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 28086 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2227 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 28086 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2226 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 41181 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2225 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 41181 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2219 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 47021 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2210 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 29456 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2209 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 50830 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2208 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 98053 207.218.152.15.8000 206.26.192.14.57940 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 53867 207.218.152.15.8000 128.111.82.59.1516 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 61915 207.218.152.15.8000 128.151.43.91.1799 ESTABLISHED <... lots more similar output chopped ...> And for comparison, shoutcast with 40 clients: leaf:~# netstat -tn Active Internet connections Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address (state) tcp 0 0 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2280 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 7646 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2279 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2278 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 0 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2277 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 4726 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2276 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2275 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2274 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2273 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 6186 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2272 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 0 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2271 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 2875 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2270 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2269 ESTABLISHED tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2268 ESTABLISHED <... yet more chopped ...> --- Jesse http://www.lumiere.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:47:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3087114FC5; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:47:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA135779963; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:12:43 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:12:43 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Jesse Cc: Matthew Dillon , Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jesse wrote: > leaf:~# netstat -tn > Active Internet connections > Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address (state) > tcp 0 28086 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2229 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 28086 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2228 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 28086 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2227 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 28086 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2226 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 41181 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2225 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 41181 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2219 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 47021 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2210 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 29456 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2209 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 50830 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2208 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 98053 207.218.152.15.8000 206.26.192.14.57940 ^^^^^ > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 53867 207.218.152.15.8000 128.111.82.59.1516 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 61915 207.218.152.15.8000 128.151.43.91.1799 ^^^^^ All of these are _really_ backed up. > Active Internet connections > Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address (state) > tcp 0 0 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2280 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 7646 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2279 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2278 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 0 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2277 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 4726 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2276 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2275 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2274 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2273 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 6186 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2272 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 0 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2271 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 2875 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2270 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2269 > ESTABLISHED > tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2268 > ESTABLISHED These seem to be handling the data in a timely fashion. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:54:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D29D14C2F; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:54:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@leaf.lumiere.net) Received: (from j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA01491; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:54:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:54:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Matthew Dillon , Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > tcp 0 98053 207.218.152.15.8000 206.26.192.14.57940 > ^^^^^ > > ESTABLISHED > > tcp 0 61915 207.218.152.15.8000 128.151.43.91.1799 > ^^^^^ > All of these are _really_ backed up. Well, this is over an ethernet connection. 40 clients, each doing 128kbps clogs it pretty bad. =) But it confirms Matt Dillon's theory that the buffers have been made larger than 16k. > > tcp 0 16015 207.218.152.15.8000 206.170.14.10.2268 > > ESTABLISHED > > These seem to be handling the data in a timely fashion. Same overloaded ethernet link. But they're all <= 16k. --- Jesse http://www.lumiere.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 14:55:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pak.texar.com (pak.texar.com [207.112.49.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9E314A14 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:55:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dseg@pak.texar.com) Received: (from dseg@localhost) by pak.texar.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) id RAA05055; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:55:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:55:40 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Seguin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: INADDR_NONE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there any reason why "#define INADDR_NONE 0xffffffff" in is not defined when KERNEL is? I'm aware of what Stevens has to say about this being a valid address, etc. etc. but is it defined as something else in the kernel? I couldn't find anything. Thanks! Dan Seguin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 15: 6:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CF7914EF5; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:06:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA13093; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:04:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:04:58 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Jesse , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The generation of traffic is linear with #clinets and the drain is a constant, (in fact it may even decrease with contention) julian On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jesse wrote: > > > I also compared shoutcast, another program which does the same thing. It > > spawns a child for each client through (as opposed to a single process). > > [ some number crunching on my TI-85 ...] > > If you think that the growth is linear (I don't) > y = 85x - 1242 > > If you think the growth is exponential (I do, this fits a lot nicer.) > y = 2.2x^2 - 75x + 900 > > Where x is the amount of clients. and y is the mbufs in use. > I don't know if that helps any developers, but it sure was fun. > > - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - > - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 15: 7:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 979EB15087 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:07:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10QJDR-000BqL-00; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 01:07:09 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Jaye Mathisen Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fbsdboot.exe and 3.1? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:26:54 PST." Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 01:07:09 +0200 Message-ID: <45528.922403229@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:26:54 PST, Jaye Mathisen wrote: > Has anybody made this work? It fails for me instantly with a "bad > format". I assume you've already read the errata notes at http://www.freebsd.org/releases/3.1R/errata.html and that they didn't help you? In that case, try posting your question to the freebsd-questions mailing list. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 15:26:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A792715554; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:26:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@leaf.lumiere.net) Received: (from j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id PAA02048; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:26:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:26:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects (resolved) In-Reply-To: <199903252231.OAA03635@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On the face of it it sounds to me like icecast is perhaps making the > socket buffers bigger --- maybe too big. The default socket buffer I talked to the icecast developers. A simple #undef SOCKET_OPERATIONS 1 stops it from changing the buffer size and they'll be incorporating that change (for *BSD systems). New testing with #undef SOCKET_OPERATIONS 1: I have 121 clients connected and mbuf usage hovers bewteen 500-1100 (as opposed to where it'd die at 4096 with 56 before). Additionally, if I cut it down to 61 clients the mbuf is in the 50-600 range (usually sitting around 90-150 range). I suspect the exponential increase at 91 and 121 clients is because of the massive amount of bandwidth (even for lo0), i.e., around 22Mbps. Thanks everybody for your help! FreeBSD is great and it's 80% about the community. Not that I didn't always know it. =) --- Jesse http://www.lumiere.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 16: 0:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084CE1511D for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:00:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: from whistle.com (crab.whistle.com [207.76.205.112]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14560 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:42:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA05557 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:42:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199903252342.PAA05557@whistle.com> Subject: FYI 3c905b now supported in Etherboot To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:42:32 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I forgot who asked me about the 3C905B, they are now support in the Linux Etherboot (netbooting) package in which I modified to load FreeBSD a.out & ELF kernels. The automedia detect had troubles, using manual selection it seems to work okay. Let me know if you want it. Did I say it would be nice to be commited as a port ... it's all ready to go. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 16: 5:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 982CF14C47; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:05:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id JAA03966; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:05:02 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36FACE5B.D0926C2C@newsguy.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:01:31 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jesse Cc: Matthew Dillon , Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects (resolved) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jesse wrote: > > Thanks everybody for your help! FreeBSD is great and it's 80% about the > community. Not that I didn't always know it. =) Notice that a core dump + kernel with symbols would still be very useful to find *where* in our code is the bug. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "What kind of psychologist laughs at her patients?" "I don't laugh at all of them." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 16:10:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C3AB1530F; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:10:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@leaf.lumiere.net) Received: (from j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id QAA02512; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:09:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:09:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects (resolved) In-Reply-To: <36FACE5B.D0926C2C@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Thanks everybody for your help! FreeBSD is great and it's 80% about the > > community. Not that I didn't always know it. =) > > Notice that a core dump + kernel with symbols would still be very > useful to find *where* in our code is the bug. I asked in other messages if anyone still wanted me to do that. No one replied. Anyway, I'll do this at an off hour and get a core dump. --- Jesse http://www.lumiere.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 16:18:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A2514CD5 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:18:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22145; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:18:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id SAA24024; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:17:38 -0600 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id SAA13252; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:17:37 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:17:37 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199903260017.SAA13252@free.pcs> To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-hackers In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: > netstat -tn output would be useful -- figure out what is eating so > much memory. > > You should be able to raise NMBCLUSTERS to 8192 easily, and possibly > even higher. Yup. However, FBSD will still panic whne it runs out of NMBCLUSTERS. I have a machine with 64K mbufs, 20K NMBCLUSTERS, and if I run out of mbuf clusters (usually because I fell behind in processing) the machine will panic. Not very nice, I suppose I should go digging to fix it sometime soon. Can someone give a short explanation (or a pointer to the relevant code) as to exactly when a NMBCLUSTER comes into play, instead of using a long mbuf chain? -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 16:19:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 647C915087 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:19:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01160; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:10:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199903260010.QAA01160@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Josh MacDonald Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:06:50 PST." <19990325140650.63224@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:10:50 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Will the system-supported debugger be upgraded to gdb 4.17? There > are a number of deficiencies in 4.16 and the release has been available > for 11 months. I notice problems with gdb 4.16 everytime I use it on > FreeBSD, which is daily. Two years of bugfixes went into 4.17, it really > is essential for FreeBSD to remain a viable development platform, > especially for debugging C++. It also is difficult to debug egcs > code with 4.16--that's another reason it should be supported. When someone willing to do the vendor branch/merge comes along, I'd say. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 16:33: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CED3514D03 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:33:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA15414 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:32:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903260032.TAA15414@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:27:05 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Dennis Subject: Compiler problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Quite frequently, particularly when compiling a large program with quite a few included modules, I get random assembler errors. Running the make again works fine. Is this a memory or swap space problem? Its beyond annoying. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 16:40:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5B614F81 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:40:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29722; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:38:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903260038.QAA29722@implode.root.com> To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:17:37 CST." <199903260017.SAA13252@free.pcs> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:38:24 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >In article you write: >> netstat -tn output would be useful -- figure out what is eating so >> much memory. >> >> You should be able to raise NMBCLUSTERS to 8192 easily, and possibly >> even higher. > > >Yup. However, FBSD will still panic whne it runs out of NMBCLUSTERS. > >I have a machine with 64K mbufs, 20K NMBCLUSTERS, and if I run out of >mbuf clusters (usually because I fell behind in processing) the machine >will panic. > >Not very nice, I suppose I should go digging to fix it sometime soon. > >Can someone give a short explanation (or a pointer to the relevant code) >as to exactly when a NMBCLUSTER comes into play, instead of using a long >mbuf chain? mbufs and mbuf clusters are allocated from the same VM map (chunk of kernel virtual address space). It's the space in the VM map that is actually running out, so allocating one type of buffer over another isn't a solution. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 16:41:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (mail2.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAECC15542 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:41:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-70-24.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.70.24]) by mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11255; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:41:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA01157; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:40:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: luoqi@watermarkgroup.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apple's Open Source Projects In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:55:03 -0500 (EST)" <199903251955.OAA24189@lor.watermarkgroup.com> References: <199903251955.OAA24189@lor.watermarkgroup.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990325193959O.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:39:59 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 38 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Luoqi Chen Subject: Apple's Open Source Projects Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:55:03 -0500 (EST) > Apple has released source code for its OS X server under some kind of public > license (http://www.publicsource.apple.com), has anybody looked at it yet? > Recently hissed at on -chat... > On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:27:31 -0500, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > One more for the collection: > >http://www.publicsource.apple.com/apsl.html > A total joke. > They define "you" and "your" among other things. > I also found it overly restrictive. > > Found lots of things to laugh about in the license, but none tops: > ---- > (c) completely and accurately document all Modifications that you have > made and the date of each such Modification, designate the version of > the Original Code you used, prominently include a file carrying such > information with the Modifications, and duplicate the notice in Exhibit > A in each file of the Source Code of all such Modifications. > > I think they are running low on R&D money so they want people to do the > work and make it easy for them to integrate back. :-) I'm happy to see major vendors releasing source code, no matter what their motivations. Another recently announced project which seems to have been completely ignored can be seen at http://www.opentelecom.org Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 16:41:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42BA11555C for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:41:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01323; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:33:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199903260033.QAA01323@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: rkw@dataplex.net Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Booting from non-standard floppy In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:40:13 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:33:00 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I needed to cram "a few more bytes" on a floppy. > After doing the fdformat and writing everything, I tried to boot it. > Unfortunately, it fails with "Not ufs". > > Looking through the bootstraps, it appears that the new loader is using > the bios to actually read the floppy. As long as I stay on track 0, > everything is fine. However, even after we have loaded "boot2", we still > use the bios's idea of the format rather than the disklabel which has > the actual values. Unfortunately, the fs description extends beyond the > first track. > > It's been a long time since I wrote bootstrap loaders. But, as I > recall, the "bios" read the 0th sector (boot1) and jumped to it. > That short piece of code got the disk format from the label and > read in the next piece of the loader. After that, address->c.t.s > was under the software control. > > Is there some reason we no longer do this? Several; - Disklabels on floppies can't be trusted. - All disks are treated as equal, and geometries in disklabels on many disks can't be trusted. Often you can't get to the disklabel until after you've made assumptions about geometry anyway. You can save space a couple of ways; if you haven't already, gzip everything except the loader. If you don't need the loader for anything other than loading a kernel, throw the loader away; the bootblocks themselves know how to load ELF kernels. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 16:53:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.vnet.net (smtp2.vnet.net [166.82.1.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3056314E95 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:53:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp2.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA03303; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:55:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA33502; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:53:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.2/8.6.9) id TAA24508; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:53:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:53:19 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199903260053.TAA24508@lakes.dignus.com> To: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Compiler problems In-Reply-To: <199903260032.TAA15414@etinc.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Quite frequently, particularly when compiling a large program with quite a few > included modules, I get random assembler errors. Running the make again > works fine. > > Is this a memory or swap space problem? Its beyond annoying. > > Dennis > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Gcc isn't all that great at ensuring the ASM source is actually written to the temp directory. If your temp directory is full, gcc blindly goes ahead and "writes" the file - not checking return codes... closes the file and then calls the assembler.... The assembler only gets partial sources... and thus, produces an error. I believe you can instruct gcc to use a different temp directory - or perhaps the -pipe option (which pipes the output of the compiler to the assembler) would be a work-around for you. - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 17: 1: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hillbilly.hayseed.net (hayseed.net [207.181.249.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F62315084 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:00:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cnielsen@scient.com) Received: from localhost (IDENT:root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hillbilly.hayseed.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA10173; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:00:26 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:00:24 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen Reply-To: Christopher Nielsen To: Luoqi Chen Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apple's Open Source Projects In-Reply-To: <199903251955.OAA24189@lor.watermarkgroup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Luoqi Chen wrote: > Apple has released source code for its OS X server under some kind of public > license (http://www.publicsource.apple.com), has anybody looked at it yet? I haven't looked at any of the source yet, but I signed up for the mailing list about a week ago and registered to get access to the source. I haven't had any time to do more than that, though. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 17: 3:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from c621015-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c621015-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.1.73.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D06615084 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sw@c621015-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com) Received: (from sw@localhost) by c621015-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13453; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:01:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sw) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:01:03 -0800 From: Sanjay Waghray To: Daniel Eischen Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 Message-ID: <19990325170103.A13423@c621015-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com> References: <199903252230.RAA19463@pcnet1.pcnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199903252230.RAA19463@pcnet1.pcnet.com>; from Daniel Eischen on Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 05:30:12PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 05:30:12PM -0500, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > Will the system-supported debugger be upgraded to gdb 4.17? There > > are a number of deficiencies in 4.16 and the release has been available > > for 11 months. I notice problems with gdb 4.16 everytime I use it on > > FreeBSD, which is daily. Two years of bugfixes went into 4.17, it really > > is essential for FreeBSD to remain a viable development platform, > > especially for debugging C++. It also is difficult to debug egcs > > code with 4.16--that's another reason it should be supported. > > There's a port for 4.17 sitting in the PR system, if you want to try > it. It's also at: > > ftp://ftp.pcnet.com/users/eischen/FreeBSD/gdb-4.17-port.tar.gz > > It includes patches for all the FreeBSD changes to 4.16 that I could > find. In fact, gdb-4.18 is round the corner; I'd suggest waiting until 4.18 is released. Related issue: what are the plans to go to egcs-1.1.x? There are numerous fixes related to C++ among other things. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 17: 9: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3F814D03 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:09:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01514; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:00:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199903260100.RAA01514@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nick Hibma Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: scheduling a function call from int routines In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:42:43 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:00:41 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I want to schedule a function call from an interrupt routine. How do I > do that? timeout? > > As in, a USB returns in an interrupt the message the fact that the > connection status of one of the ports or suspend status has changed. I > cannot start checking the ports from that interrupt routine, because I > need to transfer data to the device to make that work. You could use a timeout, yup, or look at the way that netisrs work. However, they run in a different interrupt context. 8) I'd either use a kernel process, or fix things so that you can transfer data from interrupt context (eg. use a state machine in the interrupt handler). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 17:12: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F4514EC6 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:12:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id UAA09172; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:11:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:11:04 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199903260111.UAA09172@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: jmacd@CS.Berkeley.EDU, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Will the system-supported debugger be upgraded to gdb 4.17? There > > are a number of deficiencies in 4.16 and the release has been available > > for 11 months. I notice problems with gdb 4.16 everytime I use it on > > FreeBSD, which is daily. Two years of bugfixes went into 4.17, it really > > is essential for FreeBSD to remain a viable development platform, > > especially for debugging C++. It also is difficult to debug egcs > > code with 4.16--that's another reason it should be supported. > > When someone willing to do the vendor branch/merge comes along, I'd say. Well, the port I mentioned in a previous Email does add all the FreeBSD 4.16 changes to 4.17. This is probably a good starting point for someone. Are we submitting our changes back to Cygnus (or whomever is maintain GDB) so that subsequent releases sorta build out-of-the-box? Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 17:24:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC79914F91 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:21:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from localhost (fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA41496 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:20:38 +0600 (NS) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:20:38 +0600 (NS) From: Max Khon To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: samba+PAM (again) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, there! Are there any plans on implementing account management in PAM modules (at least pam_unix)? I made another patch for pass_check.c for samba port (ftp://iclub.nsu.ru/pub/unix/net/samba/freebsd/samba-freebsd-pam.tar.gz) With this patch samba can use PAM to authenticate users. The problem is that existing PAM modules (pam_unix) do not support account management. /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 17:42:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A033515153 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:42:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25509; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:40:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:40:30 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: luoqi@watermarkgroup.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apple's Open Source Projects In-Reply-To: <19990325193959O.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > A total joke. > > They define "you" and "your" among other things. > > I also found it overly restrictive. But realize, no matter how laughably long and complex the Apple license is, it's shorter and simpler than the GNU one. > > > > Found lots of things to laugh about in the license, but none tops: > > ---- > > (c) completely and accurately document all Modifications that you have > > made and the date of each such Modification, designate the version of > > the Original Code you used, prominently include a file carrying such > > information with the Modifications, and duplicate the notice in Exhibit > > A in each file of the Source Code of all such Modifications. > > > > I think they are running low on R&D money so they want people to do the > > work and make it easy for them to integrate back. :-) > > I'm happy to see major vendors releasing source code, no matter what > their motivations. Another recently announced project which seems to > have been completely ignored can be seen at http://www.opentelecom.org > > Cheers, > > Jerry Hicks > wghicks@bellsouth.net > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 17:43:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.noc.iafrica.com (axl.noc.iafrica.com [196.31.1.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9302815247 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:43:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sheldonh@axl.noc.iafrica.com) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.noc.iafrica.com) by axl.noc.iafrica.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10QLY9-000GCx-00; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:36:41 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Ruslan Ermilov , Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUID/SGID installations in make world In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:53:59 +0930." Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:36:41 +0200 Message-ID: <62306.922412201@axl.noc.iafrica.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:53:59 +0930, Kris Kennaway wrote: > I think you'll find that 'find -ctime' does actually correctly find old > include files after a 'make includes' or similar, despite what you'd think > about the file not having been recently created. Not without CLOBBER defined, no. Without trying to explain something I haven't looked at too carefully, I can say that find -ctime shows me _everything_ in /usr/include unless the installworld target saw CLOBBER defined. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 17:46:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232F315401 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:46:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26864; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:44:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:44:46 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Dennis Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Compiler problems In-Reply-To: <199903260032.TAA15414@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Dennis wrote: > > Quite frequently, particularly when compiling a large program with quite a few > included modules, I get random assembler errors. Running the make again > works fine. > > Is this a memory or swap space problem? Its beyond annoying. Dennis, it's quite obviously not a general problem (how could folks do buildworlds?) It's possible something in the system is tickling something in your setup, if your setup is odd, but I'd certainly suspect my hardware first. I've never seen this even once, and I do a *lot* of compiling. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 17:50:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (nomad.dataplex.net [216.140.184.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4BDA14E95 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:50:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA01086; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:49:50 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) X-Authentication-Warning: nomad.dataplex.net: rkw owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:49:50 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Wackerbarth Reply-To: rkw@dataplex.net To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Booting from non-standard floppy In-Reply-To: <199903260033.QAA01323@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > I needed to cram "a few more bytes" on a floppy. > > recall, the "bios" read the 0th sector (boot1) and jumped to it. > > That short piece of code got the disk format from the label and > > read in the next piece of the loader. After that, address->c.t.s > > was under the software control. > > > > Is there some reason we no longer do this? > > Several; > > - Disklabels on floppies can't be trusted. > - All disks are treated as equal, and geometries in disklabels on many > disks can't be trusted. Often you can't get to the disklabel until > after you've made assumptions about geometry anyway. > > You can save space a couple of ways; if you haven't already, gzip > everything except the loader. Been there. My stuff is based on the PicoBSD kernel. Almost all the extras are already purged. > If you don't need the loader for anything other than loading a kernel, > throw the loader away; the bootblocks themselves know how to load ELF > kernels. Thanks, that will save a little. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 17:58:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9930F15087 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:58:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA02515; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:55:16 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA26364; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:54:01 +0930 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:53:59 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUID/SGID installations in make world In-Reply-To: <19990325154103.B84208@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > If they were installed with "-c", it would be easy > to determine what includes can be removed. > > To work around this I often rename /usr/includes to > /usr/includes.old before installing the world. I think you'll find that 'find -ctime' does actually correctly find old include files after a 'make includes' or similar, despite what you'd think about the file not having been recently created. Bruce explained this once, but I forget what the reason is. Kris ----- The Feynman problem-solving algorithm: 1. Write down the problem 2. Think real hard 3. Write down the solution To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 19: 9:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A9015027 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:09:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22694; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:08:42 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id VAA08191; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:08:11 -0600 Message-ID: <19990325210810.58396@right.PCS> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:08:10 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: dg@root.com Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects References: <199903260017.SAA13252@free.pcs> <199903260038.QAA29722@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199903260038.QAA29722@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Mar 03, 1999 at 04:38:24PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mar 03, 1999 at 04:38:24PM -0800, David Greenman wrote: > >Can someone give a short explanation (or a pointer to the relevant code) > >as to exactly when a NMBCLUSTER comes into play, instead of using a long > >mbuf chain? > > mbufs and mbuf clusters are allocated from the same VM map (chunk of kernel > virtual address space). It's the space in the VM map that is actually running > out, so allocating one type of buffer over another isn't a solution. So that would explain why I see the peak value for NMBCLUSTERS exceeding the max; the system allocated more, and then ran out of space in the vm map. But what I was really asking was at what point does the system decide to put data in a cluster as opposed to putting it into a normal mbuf and then tacking it onto the mbuf chain? As I understand it, the NIC DMA's data directly into mbufs on it's receive ring; are these then passed to ether_input. Are the buffers that the NIC uses always clusters? -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 19:18:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F93151E7 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:18:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00298; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:15:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903260315.TAA00298@implode.root.com> To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:08:10 CST." <19990325210810.58396@right.PCS> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:15:36 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >So that would explain why I see the peak value for NMBCLUSTERS >exceeding the max; the system allocated more, and then ran out of >space in the vm map. It's the total space in the "mb_map" that determines the real limit. The "max" in the netstat output is just the nmbclusters part, but the real max is the size of the map (which, again, also has space for mbufs). >But what I was really asking was at what point does the system decide >to put data in a cluster as opposed to putting it into a normal mbuf >and then tacking it onto the mbuf chain? As I understand it, the NIC >DMA's data directly into mbufs on it's receive ring; are these then >passed to ether_input. Are the buffers that the NIC uses always clusters? In general, the system uses mbuf clusters (large buffers) whenever there is more data than will fit into just a single mbuf. Device drivers have various policies, however, so what actually happens can vary. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 19:48:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0BC815085 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:48:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01568; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:47:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:47:26 -0500 (EST) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199903260347.WAA01568@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: Apple's Open Source Projects Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Or give FreeBSD the ability to run OS X binaries in a power-pc port. That > would be very useful. I would, today, run out and buy OS X ( software ) if > I could run it on a FreeBSD box. Then I could run Apple apps. > > -Matt > I doubt you could run mac apps, mostly likely the mac os is another server parallel to the BSD server and you need the mach microkernel for that. But the released source code would definitely help us to port FreeBSD to a power mac, I can't wait to run FreeBSD on my PowerTower at work... -lq To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 20:28:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC3714D2A for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:28:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wsanchez@scv3.apple.com) Received: from mailgate2.apple.com ([17.129.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA32676 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:23:00 -0800 Received: from scv3.apple.com (scv3.apple.com) by mailgate2.apple.com (mailgate2.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:22:54 -0800 Received: from joliet-jake (joliet-jake.apple.com [17.202.40.140]) by scv3.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16038; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:22:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199903260422.UAA16038@scv3.apple.com> To: Luoqi Chen , dillon@apollo.backplane.com, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: Apple's Open Source Projects Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:22:45 -0800 From: Wilfredo Sanchez Reply-To: wsanchez@apple.com X-Mailer: by Apple MailViewer (2.106) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew: | Or give FreeBSD the ability to run OS X binaries in a power-pc port. That | would be very useful. I would, today, run out and buy OS X ( software ) if | I could run it on a FreeBSD box. Then I could run Apple apps. You need a lot more than binary compatibility. You'll need all the the dynamic libraries which come with the OS, most of which are not free, and you'll need to emulate and provide the Mach API to userland. The Mac OS 8 "blue box" is a whole other matter. Julian: | I'm even tempted to see what it would take to add a FreeBSD | compatibility to it.. That may not be as hard; we've tried not to exclude that possbility in the past. Probably not real easy, though. Certainly, we'd be interested in adding that sort of thing to Darwin. Luoqi: | I doubt you could run mac apps, mostly likely the mac os is another server | parallel to the BSD server and you need the mach microkernel for that. We aren't running co-located servers. That's bloody slow. The kernel is monolithic. Mach isn't very "micro," anyway. -Fred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 21:32: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.84.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B6D96150D0 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:31:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA04945; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:26:26 -0800 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:26:26 -0800 From: Daniel Berlin To: Josh MacDonald Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: <19990325140650.63224@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If you want to move to 4.17, you might as well wait 2-3 weeks for 4.18 to come out (unless there is some major glaring bug in 4.17.86 that hasn't been caught in the past few weeks). Among other things, they finally merged all the code changes from HP's Wildabeast (sp?) port, which added a few nice things. --Dan On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Josh MacDonald wrote: > Will the system-supported debugger be upgraded to gdb 4.17? There > are a number of deficiencies in 4.16 and the release has been available > for 11 months. I notice problems with gdb 4.16 everytime I use it on > FreeBSD, which is daily. Two years of bugfixes went into 4.17, it really > is essential for FreeBSD to remain a viable development platform, > especially for debugging C++. It also is difficult to debug egcs > code with 4.16--that's another reason it should be supported. > > -josh > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 22: 4: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from unique.usn.blaze.net.au (unique.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1295614F91 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:03:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from davidn@blaze.net.au) Received: from labs (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.98]) by unique.usn.blaze.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA09662; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:02:40 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from davidn@blaze.net.au) Message-ID: <021b01be774e$2f51b170$623511cb@usn.blaze.net.au> From: "David Nugent" To: "Dennis" Cc: References: Subject: Re: Compiler problems Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:02:02 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Robey writes: > > Quite frequently, particularly when compiling a large program with quite a few > > included modules, I get random assembler errors. Running the make again > > works fine. > > > > Is this a memory or swap space problem? Its beyond annoying. > > Dennis, it's quite obviously not a general problem (how could folks do > buildworlds?) It's possible something in the system is tickling > something in your setup, if your setup is odd, but I'd certainly suspect > my hardware first. > > I've never seen this even once, and I do a *lot* of compiling. I have seen it, at least this same problem - whether it is the same cause or not remains to be seen. It could be as simple as increasing the voltage on your cpu slightly; or even a change of cpu. Some motherboards with auto cpu voltage can rate the voltage a little low with some types of processors. It seems to be a fairly common problem too, and only really comes into play when the processors are used fairly intensively, such as when compiling or using graphics applications. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 25 23:31:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.seidata.com (ns1.seidata.com [208.10.211.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98A4414E69 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:31:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by ns1.seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA02289; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 02:31:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 02:31:28 -0500 (EST) From: To: "Alton, Matthew" Cc: "'Luoqi Chen'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Apple's Open Source Projects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Alton, Matthew wrote: > The MacOS GUI is not there, however. I imagine it's a sort of NextStep without > 4.3BSD license issues minus the heinous coherent C hooks. If it's anything like Raphsody, you're right... very Nextish and Mach based. Raphsody was cool... installed equally well on my PC and a friend's PPC, and it was almost like being at a BSD console when I'd pull up an Xterm. Cool stuff. Later, -Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 0:11:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89C815142 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:11:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com (s204m82.isp.whistle.com [207.76.204.82] (may be forged)) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA27280; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:08:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:07:52 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: mike@seidata.com Cc: "Alton, Matthew" , "'Luoqi Chen'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Apple's Open Source Projects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think you'll find it IS rhapsody's kernel. On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 mike@seidata.com wrote: > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Alton, Matthew wrote: > > > The MacOS GUI is not there, however. I imagine it's a sort of NextStep without > > 4.3BSD license issues minus the heinous coherent C hooks. > > If it's anything like Raphsody, you're right... very Nextish and Mach > based. Raphsody was cool... installed equally well on my PC and a > friend's PPC, and it was almost like being at a BSD console when I'd > pull up an Xterm. Cool stuff. > > Later, > > -Mike > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 3:35:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B607B14D5B for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:35:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:33:40 -0000 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: toasty@home.dragondata.com, lem@cantv.net Cc: eischen@vigrid.com, mrcpu@internetcds.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: comments on de driver error message? Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:33:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Day [mailto:toasty@home.dragondata.com] > Sent: 30 December 1998 19:02 > To: lem@cantv.net > Cc: eischen@vigrid.com; mrcpu@internetcds.com; wilko@yedi.iaf.nl; > FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: comments on de driver error message? > > > > > > FWIW, I had the same configuration (with switches instead of hubs) > > and were getting the same errors in a couple of boxes. > > > > When I certified the patch cords of the top two machines appearing > > in the logs with a WireScope 155 I found one of them bad. After > > replacing both of them, I've seen no more messages like those. > > > > At first I was bitching about the cheap cards or the driver but hey, > > it was the cable. What stroke me is that even with an expensive > > cable-testing device one of the cables was 'good'! > > > > Regards. > > > > -lem > > One other thing to consider though. Most other ethernet > drivers in FreeBSD > don't report the errors at all. de is just talkative. So, > just because the > driver complains of a crc error once or twice a day, doesn't > mean you really > need to go out and change cables. If you had picked another card, you > wouldn't even know the problem existed. The lnc driver is "talkative" as well and I always pipe up at this point and argue it's (and de's) case. These are real errors, they may be hard to find and irritating to net admins but that doesn't change the fact that when the drivers report errors (assuming no bug in the code) that they exist. I've lost count of the number of times that clients have eventually found problems that were the cause of these errors even though they couldn't find anything obviously wrong initially. I find it irritating that cards just don't report these errors by default. I'm happy for there to be a mechanism to switch off errors that admins can't resolve and would rather not see persistently but not being aware of them in the first place is not a useful feature. My experience has been that more often than not these errors are caused by very real problems that need fixing. Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 4:41:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD5E514E38 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 04:40:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Received: from hpsystem14.informatik.tu-muenchen.de ([131.159.4.9] EHLO hpsystem14.informatik.tu-muenchen.de ident: root [port 3346]) by tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de with ESMTP id <111260-227>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:40:49 +0000 Received: from langd@localhost (fake: hprbg4.informatik.tu-muenchen.de) by hpsystem14.informatik.tu-muenchen.de id <12045-8139>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:40:16 +0100 Message-ID: <19990326134015.C26520@informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:40:15 +0100 From: Daniel Lang To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: make release - a nightmare Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hiho, this is a long story, I'm afraid, but I think I identified some of the main problems, so maybe they can be fixed.. I thought I could easily use my CVS-repository, and some disk-space to set up a SNAP-'release' suitable to install other boxes with... so far so good. Unfortunately it didn't turn out to be that easy. One of my main problems was, that there are no real 'checkpoints' at some stages, where you can continue if an error aborted, the whole build. There is at least one, I realized, that you can use 'make rerelease' if the source/doc/ports-trees once are checked-out from the rep. Still a very time-consuming cvs update has to be done :-/, but that wouldn't be a real problem, if the build would work. I guess my environment is sort of uncommon, since I'm not USA_RESIDENT, and therefore don't want kerberos and other encryption-stuff installed. There are some variables, that can be set in /etc/make.conf (MAKE_KERBEROSIV, USA_RESIDENT), which have been set correncly (i.e. not setting MAKE_KERBEROSIV at all). Further, after checking the Makefile in /usr/src/release I set NOCRYPT and NOKERBEROS as well in this Makefile. But, the problem persited: After the chroot, the build process _always_ changes into the /chroot-dir/usr/src/kerberosIV directory and tries to build it. That would be ok, if it would work, but then it aborts with something like "Don't know how to make k_getpwuid.c", I didn't check why this was happending, maybe an error in the Makefile or a missing file.. I didn't want it to build kerberos at all. The _only_ way to do it, was to suspend the build-process right aber the src-tree was updated and remove the entire kerberosiv-directory. That worked so far. The next problem happened, as docproj should be built, as this uses some ports, that require distfiles, that have not been on my system. Unfortunately, my system is not connected permanently, so the build was aborted again. This is of course no bug, but it should be mentioned somewhere, that it is recommended, to have the required distfiles present. This was not the end of the story, while compiling ../src/usr.sbin/ppp/ (I guess for the boot-floppies), the make depend (mkdep) fails, because in ms_chap.c is included. The Makefile in .../src/usr.sbin/ppp checks if encryption is installed, but, either mkdep doesn't honor it, or the chroot-environment tells a different story. I moved around this obstacle by copying /usr/include/rpc/des.h to /chroot-dir/usr/include/des.h Then, finally after many hours the release was built. I bootet from the floppies and started the installation, which went fine so far. Except, that I could select a compat22 distribution, that should enable 2.2.* and 3.0 a.out compatibility, but was not built. Since on my 3.1-STABLE production system, a.out binaries can still be executed (as the libraries are still present), I guess this is something for the future, maybe taken from -current, I didn't check on the freshly installed machine, yet. That all doesn't sound so bad, but it took ages and dozen times of make, that all started somewhat from the beginning again... I guess the problems with encryption distributions (kerbersos/des) happen from not passing some environment-variables into the chroot-environment. Further some checkpoints, to complete an interrupted build, especially after the chroot would be nice, maybe its possible to add some extra targets, to continue, after certain .release.X - steps have been completed. Generally more documentation about 'make release' would be nice. Well I volunteer to set up a webpage with the experiences I made during my encounter, maybe it could be included into the handbook some time. Any contributions are very welcome, but don't expect it to be finished soon, since currently I'm sort of busy (as you are all, as well, I guess ;-)). I just send this to freebsd-hackers, since it seems to be most appropriate list. Please feel free to bounce it to freebsd-bugs and/or any other list, that may be suitable as well. Regards, Daniel -- IRCnet: Mr-Spock - Soon I will be free, then hungry. - RL: Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * +49 89 8540017 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 5:39: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from noc.demon.net (server.noc.demon.net [193.195.224.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D7E14E8C for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 05:39:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fanf@demon.net) Received: by noc.demon.net; id NAA17375; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:38:41 GMT Received: from fanf.noc.demon.net(195.11.55.83) by inside.noc.demon.net via smap (3.2) id xmab17358; Fri, 26 Mar 99 13:38:40 GMT Received: from fanf by fanf.noc.demon.net with local (Exim 1.73 #2) id 10QWoq-0003mb-00; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:38:40 +0000 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Tony Finch Subject: Re: Gigabit ethernet -- what am I doing wrong? In-Reply-To: <199903220200.SAA02330@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199903220058.TAA17538@etinc.com> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:38:40 +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: >> At 12:13 PM 3/21/99 -0800, you wrote: >> > >> >Does anyone know when the faster PCI busses (64bits or 66MHz PCI >> >clock rate) are going to be availabe ? >> >> The "availability" of 66Mhz busses is almost moot. Making ASICs >> work at 33mhz is a chore....66mhz is a waze off. > >That's close, but several of the major ASIC vendors were (or were >claiming to be) sampling devices with 66MHz PCI macrocells the last >time I looked. Aren't the electrical requirements on motherboards at least as problematic as the availability of ASICs? Tony. -- f.a.n.finch dot@dotat.at fanf@demon.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 6:47:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from woodstock.monkey.net (pern-2-101.mdm.mkt.execpc.com [169.207.89.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96DC2152F3 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:47:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamilton@pobox.com) Received: from pobox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woodstock.monkey.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8299E14D; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:46:46 -0600 (CST) To: Daniel Lang Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make release - a nightmare In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:40:15 +0100." <19990326134015.C26520@informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:46:46 -0600 From: Jon Hamilton Message-Id: <19990326144646.8299E14D@woodstock.monkey.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19990326134015.C26520@informatik.tu-muenchen.de>, Daniel Lang wrote : } Hiho, } } this is a long story, I'm afraid, but I think } I identified some of the main problems, so maybe } they can be fixed.. } } I thought I could easily use my CVS-repository, and } some disk-space to set up a SNAP-'release' suitable to } install other boxes with... so far so good. } Unfortunately it didn't turn out to be that easy. } } One of my main problems was, that there are no real } 'checkpoints' at some stages, where you can continue } if an error aborted, the whole build. There is at } least one, I realized, that you can use } 'make rerelease' if the source/doc/ports-trees } once are checked-out from the rep. Still a } very time-consuming cvs update has to be done :-/, You can simply do ``make rerelease RELEASENOUPDATE '' to avoid the cvs update. [ ... ] } Generally more documentation about 'make release' } would be nice. Well I volunteer to set up a webpage The sentiment seems to be that ``make release is meant for experts only'', which I don't think is entirely appropriate, although I do understand that it's a hairy process and Jordan and others are very busy and cleaning it up and/or writing better documentation is just something they haven't gotten around to yet. I started toying with make release a couple of weeks ago and ran into some of the problems you mentioned, eventually working around them and making a successful release. I took notes and intend to write and contribute some documentation, but as always time is very scarce and I can't even guess when I might have anything of use. -- Jon Hamilton hamilton@pobox.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 7:58:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 525AC15406 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:58:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Received: from hpsystem14.informatik.tu-muenchen.de ([131.159.4.9] EHLO hpsystem14.informatik.tu-muenchen.de ident: root [port 3863]) by tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de with ESMTP id <110776-227>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:57:58 +0000 Received: from langd@localhost (fake: hprbg4.informatik.tu-muenchen.de) by hpsystem14.informatik.tu-muenchen.de id <12004-8145>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:57:32 +0100 Message-ID: <19990326165731.G26520@informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:57:31 +0100 From: Daniel Lang To: Jon Hamilton Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make release - a nightmare References: <19990326134015.C26520@informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <19990326144646.8299E14D@woodstock.monkey.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990326144646.8299E14D@woodstock.monkey.net>; from Jon Hamilton on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 08:46:46AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hiho, Jon Hamilton wrote on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 08:46:46AM -0600: [..] > You can simply do ``make rerelease RELEASENOUPDATE '' > to avoid the cvs update. Ah, _very_ good to know that, thanks. Btw, as you mention that, I remember another problem I ran into, but forgot to write about it: I tried to speed things up by specifying 'make -j 4 ...' to have more processes running concurrently. This worked fine for a while until the build aborted with 'make: argument list too long' so I guess, at some stage, there are passed exactly as many arguments as possible, and my additional ones (which cause other args to be added to child-makes, I guess) break the thing. I'm afraid that this could happen if I pass -DRELEASENOUPDATE (and others), as well.. [..] > } Generally more documentation about 'make release' > } would be nice. Well I volunteer to set up a webpage > > The sentiment seems to be that ``make release is meant for experts > only'', which I don't think is entirely appropriate, although I do > understand that it's a hairy process and Jordan and others are very > busy and cleaning it up and/or writing better documentation is just > something they haven't gotten around to yet. Yes, no offence meant by any means. And its great to have such a possibility at all. (I guess the Losix-users never even dream about s.th. like that ;-)) > I started toying with > make release a couple of weeks ago and ran into some of the problems > you mentioned, eventually working around them and making a successful > release. I took notes and intend to write and contribute some > documentation, but as always time is very scarce and I can't even > guess when I might have anything of use. Aye, same about me (as I wrote), but I guess it would be a good idea to stay in touch anyway. Thanks for the hints, regards, Daniel -- IRCnet: Mr-Spock - Burn them to ashes, then burn the ashes. - RL: Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * +49 89 8540017 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 10: 6: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 014201559A for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:06:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09547; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:02:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Daniel Lang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make release - a nightmare In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:40:15 +0100." <19990326134015.C26520@informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:02:55 -0800 Message-ID: <9545.922471375@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > this is a long story, I'm afraid, but I think > I identified some of the main problems, so maybe > they can be fixed.. Well, I think these basically miss one fundamental point: The release target isn't aimed at users. :) If you're going to roll releases, there are quite a few prerequisites to keep in mind. First off is the fact that this whole thing has been rolled for and by the release engineer(s) - it's not designed to be easy to use, simply to be comprehensive enough to build a complete release. This is why, for example, the encryption bits are non-optional. I expect to build both crypto and non-crypto bits since that's what a release contains. In any case, I'm sure the stuff could be cleaned up and I'm always willing to look at diffs, but just to make the point that this was never really meant to be all that clean in the first place - it's like the underneath of an escallator; only the service techs are really meant to be looking at it anyway. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 10: 6:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1BC41558D for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09562; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:04:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Jon Hamilton Cc: Daniel Lang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make release - a nightmare In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:46:46 CST." <19990326144646.8299E14D@woodstock.monkey.net> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:04:25 -0800 Message-ID: <9560.922471465@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The sentiment seems to be that ``make release is meant for experts > only'', which I don't think is entirely appropriate, although I do > understand that it's a hairy process and Jordan and others are very > busy and cleaning it up and/or writing better documentation is just It's not so much the case that it's deliberately for experts only so much as the fact that it's never been polished to the point where non-experts can trivially use it. Given the long TODO lists that all of us have, it's also not part of anyone's immediate plans to make it so. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 10:45:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bastuba.partitur.se (bastuba.partitur.se [193.219.246.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C78614C23; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:45:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from girgen@partitur.se) Received: from solist.partitur.se (solist.partitur.se [193.219.246.204]) by bastuba.partitur.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05225; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:44:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from girgen@partitur.se) Received: from partitur.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by solist.partitur.se (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26892; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:44:38 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from girgen@partitur.se) Message-ID: <36FBD596.DDDF452B@partitur.se> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:44:38 +0100 From: Palle Girgensohn Organization: Partitur X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: sv, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: egcs linking problems w/ gnome stuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I've used egcs (both 1.1.1 and 1.1.2) for some time to build ports, and it usually works fine. Sometimes, I get problems with undefined symbols when linking (usually shared) libraries, but most of the time this is because related libs are built with the standard gcc. Rebuilding them as well fixes the problem (this is especially true for kde stuff, which need to have the sam compiler; can't even switch between egcs-1.1.1 and egcs-1.1.2 without recompiling all of it). One exception from this, however, is gnome stuff. Both libaudiofile/esound and glib12/gtk12 won't link if the previous (libaudiofile and glib12 respectively) were built with egcs. If I rebuild libaudiofile with stock gcc (2.7.2.1), and then build and link esound with egcs, esound will link. Otherwise, I get undefined symbols (not many, but still too many; it doesn't work). I understand that the linking stuff must be quite different between egcs and gcc-2.7.x, but isn't there something broken with libaudiofile and esound, when esound won't work unless libaudiofile is built with gcc-2.7.x? If someone could shed some light on linking in general, and this problem in particular, I'd be delighted. Thanks Palle To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 10:49: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64CC414D21; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:49:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA68628; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:48:38 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma068626; Fri, 26 Mar 99 12:48:15 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23069; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:48:25 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199903261848.MAA23069@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-rsa.txt X-PGP-DSSfprint: AB2F 8D71 A4F4 467D 352E 8A41 5D79 22E4 71A2 8C73 X-PGP-DHfprint: 2D50 12E5 AB38 60BA AF4B 0778 7242 4460 1C32 F6B1 X-PGP-DH-DSSkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-dh-dss.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <36FBD596.DDDF452B@partitur.se> References: <36FBD596.DDDF452B@partitur.se> Subject: Re: egcs linking problems w/ gnome stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: Palle Girgensohn Cc: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:48:25 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26 March 1999 at 19:44, Palle Girgensohn wrote: [snip] > I understand that the linking stuff must be quite different between egcs > and gcc-2.7.x, but isn't there something broken with libaudiofile and > esound, when esound won't work unless libaudiofile is built with > gcc-2.7.x? Check all your dependencies ... I use egcs here to build all of GNOME successfully. Perhaps you have some libraries built with the system compiler and some with egcs? Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 12:23:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from charon.finall.com (charon.npc.net [199.15.61.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9038515167 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:22:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjung@npc.net) Received: from exchange.finall.com (exchange-gw.finall.com [10.0.158.37]) by charon.finall.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA15961 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:22:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mjung@npc.net) Received: by exchange.finall.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) id <01BE779A.71354CE0@exchange.finall.com>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:08:02 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Jung, Michael" To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Custom Release/Custom Install Disks Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:08:01 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am in need of creating a custom 3.1-STABLE install disk that contains the Compaq SmartArrary device IDA drivers (http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~md/ida/FreeBSD-3.1/) Following the instructions at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ237.html#custrel I grabbed the CVS Repository (My config file) *default prefix=/big/cvsup/cvs *default base=/usr/sup *default host=cvsup5.freebsd.org *default release=cvs *default delete compress use-rel-suffix src-all src-eBones src-secure ports-all www doc-all Under a 3.0-Release kernel with vnode compiled in when I execute /usr/local/release# make release BUILDNAME=3.0=Compaq CHROOTDIR/big/3.0-Compaq RELEASETAG=RELENG_3_1 it churns until finally objformat: not found "/usr/src/Makefile.inc1", line 958: warning: "objformat" returned non-zero status what is this telling me? /usr/bin/objformat exists and returns elf from a prompt. Thanks in advance --mikej Michael Jung (MJ548) (502) 315-2457 Voice National Processing Company (502) 315-2815 Facsimile 1231 Durrett Lane mjung@npc.net Mailstop: 75SYSP Louisville, KY 40285 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 12:59:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D89A14D59 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:59:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10325; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:57:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Jung, Michael" Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Custom Release/Custom Install Disks In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:08:01 EST." Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:57:56 -0800 Message-ID: <10323.922481876@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am in need of creating a custom 3.1-STABLE install disk that > contains the Compaq SmartArrary device IDA drivers > (http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~md/ida/FreeBSD-3.1/) There's a much easier way of doing this. Get the latest 3.1-STABLE snapshot from: ftp://releng3.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/i386/3.1-... and pull kern.flp and mfsroot.flp out of the floppies/ subdirectory. Use dd or fdwrite to whap each onto a floppy disk in the usual way and then mount the kernel floppy as follows: mount /dev/fd0 /mnt Now compile up a 3.1-stable kernel containing your IDA drivers and be sure to include: options MFS options MFS_ROOT In its config file. Take the resulting kernel, gzip it and then and copy kernel.gz to /mnt, overwriting the kernel that's there. ``umount /mnt'', pop the floppy out, walk over to your installation machine and boot from it. When prompted, insert the mfsroot floppy as normal and then proceed into the installation. If everything goes smoothly, you should see and be able to install onto your drives. If you want to do an FTP installation, select the releng3.freebsd.org server from the FTP servers list and it will also load the appropriate snapshot that goes with the original boot floppies. Now that the boot floppies are no longer "magic" (one nice consequence of going to 2 floppies), you can replace that kern.flp kernel with any one you like, just so long as the MFS and MFS_ROOT options are included. You also have the option of gzipping or not gzipping it, depending on size - the loader will deal with it either way. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 16: 5:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 666C014DB9 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:05:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA07504 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:01:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36FC1FF1.1CFBAE39@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:01:53 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: amazing packages I just tripped over.. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~jafl/jcc/ http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~jafl/jx/ and for a really good place to bookmark.... http://flint.linuxberg.com/software.html or http://download.tucows.com/perl/linuxGo.html or backing up a bit.. http://www.tucows.com/ maybe we can somehow get the FreeBSD Ports collection connected with this? (us to them, them to us.) julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 17: 5:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00C9C15001 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:05:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id RAA86445; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:05:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:05:15 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Sanjay Waghray Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 Message-ID: <19990326170514.A86355@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <199903252230.RAA19463@pcnet1.pcnet.com> <19990325170103.A13423@c621015-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990325170103.A13423@c621015-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com>; from Sanjay Waghray on Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 05:01:03PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Related issue: what are the plans to go to egcs-1.1.x? There are > numerous fixes related to C++ among other things. A contribifed EGCS is ready to go. See the March mail archives for the current@freebsd.org list. I've posted instructions and a supfile that you too can play with EGCS as the base compiler. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 17:26:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48E7150C8 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:26:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28184; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:24:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:24:31 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: "David O'Brien" Cc: Sanjay Waghray , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: <19990326170514.A86355@relay.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, David O'Brien wrote: > > Related issue: what are the plans to go to egcs-1.1.x? There are > > numerous fixes related to C++ among other things. > > A contribifed EGCS is ready to go. See the March mail archives for the > current@freebsd.org list. I've posted instructions and a supfile that > you too can play with EGCS as the base compiler. Last I looked, you had that area kind of full of test releases, magnifying the size several times over. Have you cut it down yet ... I'm asking about how many megs is it now, it was well over 100 I think before, right? > > -- > -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 18:54:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2399814C8E for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:54:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id SAA86736; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:54:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:54:18 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Chuck Robey Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 Message-ID: <19990326185418.B86672@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19990326170514.A86355@relay.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 08:24:31PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > A contribifed EGCS is ready to go. See the March mail archives for the > > Last I looked, you had that area kind of full of test releases, > magnifying the size several times over. Have you cut it down yet ... > I'm asking about how many megs is it now, it was well over 100 I think > before, right? Not really full of test releases, just versions 1.1.1, 1.1.2-prerelease2, 1.1.2-prerelease3, and 1.1.2 on vendor branches. The diffs between them aren't really that large at all. Many files are the same in 1.1.1 and 1.1.2. But EGCS does encompass GCC/libg++(the parts that survived the standardization)/STL/G77(fortran)/test suites so it is much larger than src/contrib/gcc/. The test suites do take a large chunk of space. I don't know if we should commit the test suites to our tree, or not. Regression tests are good to have, but the space..... Also, I still have the G77 bits in my EGCS repository until it is decided if FORTRAN lives in the base tree, or as a port. I don't care either way about the G77 issue, and will do as others tell me about it. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 19:17:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7214D14D58 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:17:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA52509; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:15:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:15:39 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: "David O'Brien" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: <19990326185418.B86672@relay.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, David O'Brien wrote: > > > A contribifed EGCS is ready to go. See the March mail archives for the > > > > Last I looked, you had that area kind of full of test releases, > > magnifying the size several times over. Have you cut it down yet ... > > I'm asking about how many megs is it now, it was well over 100 I think > > before, right? > > Not really full of test releases, just versions 1.1.1, 1.1.2-prerelease2, > 1.1.2-prerelease3, and 1.1.2 on vendor branches. The diffs between them > aren't really that large at all. Many files are the same in 1.1.1 and > 1.1.2. > > But EGCS does encompass GCC/libg++(the parts that survived the > standardization)/STL/G77(fortran)/test suites so it is much larger than > src/contrib/gcc/. The test suites do take a large chunk of space. I > don't know if we should commit the test suites to our tree, or not. > Regression tests are good to have, but the space..... Also, I still have > the G77 bits in my EGCS repository until it is decided if FORTRAN lives > in the base tree, or as a port. I don't care either way about the G77 > issue, and will do as others tell me about it. Well, would you mind doing a du on the cvs contrib part, and on a checked out copy, so I can see if it'll fit? I can see now that I'm going to have to learn vinum, and line up a couple of 4G disks. My old 2G ones just don't give the lfexibility they did a little while ago. Good thing all that vinum work is going on. Thanks, David. We're all holding our collective breath on this one. > > -- > -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 20: 0:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFFC714FFD for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:00:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA04424; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:59:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA03481; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:59:30 -0700 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:59:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199903270359.UAA03481@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: obrien@NUXI.com Cc: Chuck Robey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: <19990326185418.B86672@relay.nuxi.com> References: <19990326170514.A86355@relay.nuxi.com> <19990326185418.B86672@relay.nuxi.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > A contribifed EGCS is ready to go. See the March mail archives for the > > > > Last I looked, you had that area kind of full of test releases, > > magnifying the size several times over. Have you cut it down yet ... > > I'm asking about how many megs is it now, it was well over 100 I think > > before, right? > > Not really full of test releases, just versions 1.1.1, 1.1.2-prerelease2, > 1.1.2-prerelease3, and 1.1.2 on vendor branches. The diffs between them > aren't really that large at all. Many files are the same in 1.1.1 and > 1.1.2. > > But EGCS does encompass GCC/libg++(the parts that survived the > standardization)/STL/G77(fortran)/test suites so it is much larger than > src/contrib/gcc/. The test suites do take a large chunk of space. I > don't know if we should commit the test suites to our tree, or not. I say not, since it's a 'static' release as far as FreeBSD goes. Theoretically, someone is using the test suites to make sure it works before we make it the standar compiler, so there is no need to continue testing it. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 26 23:24:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3098814C8E; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:24:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA13750; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:54:31 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id RAA53305; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:47:39 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990327174738.B425@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:47:38 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Jesse , "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Taking panic dumps (was: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects (resolved)) References: <36FACE5B.D0926C2C@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jesse on Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 04:09:44PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 25 March 1999 at 16:09:44 -0800, Jesse wrote: > >>> Thanks everybody for your help! FreeBSD is great and it's 80% about the >>> community. Not that I didn't always know it. =) >> >> Notice that a core dump + kernel with symbols would still be very >> useful to find *where* in our code is the bug. > > I asked in other messages if anyone still wanted me to do that. No one > replied. Anyway, I'll do this at an off hour and get a core dump. OK. I really should put this in the FAQ, since it's really important. 1. Build a kernel with debug symbols. Assuming your config file is called MYKERNEL, do: n cd /sys/i386/conf config -g MYCONFIG cd ../../compile/MYCONFIG make depend all cp kernel kernel.gdb strip -g kernel make install 2. If you don't have the directory /var/crash, create it in a file system which has space for the dump (memory size) and the kernel (about 10 MB, 15 is safer). 3. You *must* have a single swap area which is at least a little larger than physical memory. You can have other swap areas as well, but for dumping you need one which will take the contents of memory and a little additional for headers (1 MB would be more than enough extra). Assuming you have such a partition on /dev/da0s1b, add a line like this to /etc/rc.conf: dumpdev="/dev/da0s1b" # Device name to crashdump to (if enabled). If you don't have an /etc/rc.conf, put it in /etc/defaults/rc.conf. 4. Boot the new kernel. There are a number of points to comment about: 1. If you have the space (about 10 MB), you don't need to copy kernel to kernel.gdb and strip the original. It doesn't buy you much, though, unless you have ddb installed, and that is rather painful to use. 2. /etc/rc.conf and friends are still moving around and changing their relationships to each other. This applies to 3.1-RELEASE. It doesn't apply exactly to previous or subsequent releases, though you should be able to figure out what's going on. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 0:53:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D8114C3F; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:53:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA13984; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:23:26 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id TAA53554; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:23:24 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990327192324.C53452@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:23:24 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: We're not that different References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@originative.co.uk on Thu, Mar 25, 1999 at 05:24:15PM -0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] [moved to -chat] On Thursday, 25 March 1999 at 17:24:15 -0000, paul@originative.co.uk wrote: > This is probably asking for trouble since it's not even remotely FreeBSD > related (then again it sort of is, see points below). Some of you may have > seen it but a little light relief is a good thing at times :-) Well, that's what -chat's for. I'm forwarding it there, mainly so I can get the chance to reformat it and read it. So what category does that put me in? :-) Greg >>> Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a >>> light bulb? >>> >>> A: 1,343 >>> >>> 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the >>> light bulb has been changed; >>> >>> 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how >>> the light bulb could have been changed differently; >>> >>> 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs; >>> >>> 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing >>> light bulbs; >>> >>> 53 to flame the spell checkers; >>> >>> 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames; >>> >>> 6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb"; >>> >>> another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive; >>> >>> 156 to write to the list administrator about the light bulb >>> discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list; >>> >>> 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please >>> take this email exchange to litebulb-l; >>> >>> 203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l and >>> illuminati-l about changing light bulbs be stopped; >>> >>> 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use >>> light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this mail >>> list; >>> >>> 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, >>> where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work >>> best for this technique and what brands are faulty; >>> >>> 27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light >>> bulbs; >>> >>> 14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post >>> the corrected URL's; >>> >>> 3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant >>> to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list; >>> >>> 33 to link all posts to date, then quote them including all >>> headers and footers and then add "Me too"; >>> >>> 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they >>> cannot handle the light bulb controversy; >>> >>> 19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three"; >>> >>> 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ; >>> >>> 44 to ask what is "FAQ"; >>> >>> 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago on >>> Usenet?" >>> >>> 143 to ask "what's Usenet?" -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 1:40:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC38C14DE2 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:40:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id BAA87499; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:40:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:40:25 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Nate Williams Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 Message-ID: <19990327014025.B87460@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19990326170514.A86355@relay.nuxi.com> <19990326185418.B86672@relay.nuxi.com> <199903270359.UAA03481@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199903270359.UAA03481@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 08:59:30PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The test suites do take a large chunk of space. I don't know if we > > should commit the test suites to our tree, or not. > > I say not, since it's a 'static' release as far as FreeBSD goes. > Theoretically, someone is using the test suites to make sure it works > before we make it the standar compiler, so there is no need to continue > testing it. :) Sure there is. We've made some changes to the code generation bits in the past. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 1:48:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5134314DE2 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:48:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id BAA87535; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:47:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:47:50 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Chuck Robey Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 Message-ID: <19990327014750.C87460@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19990326185418.B86672@relay.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 10:15:39PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, would you mind doing a du on the cvs contrib part, and on a > checked out copy, so I can see if it'll fit? src/contrib/egcs 40M cvs/src/contrib/egcs 49M cvs/src/gnu 12M (much less if the Attic is pruned) I also haven't trimmed out the archs we wont support and other misc files we don't need yet. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 3:47:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D002E15015 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 03:47:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.79]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA50F5; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:47:27 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA81390; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:47:23 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <36FC1FF1.1CFBAE39@whistle.com> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:47:23 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Julian Elischer Subject: RE: amazing packages I just tripped over.. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27-Mar-99 Julian Elischer wrote: > http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~jafl/jcc/ > http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~jafl/jx/ Been there, still trying =( > maybe we can somehow get the FreeBSD Ports collection > connected with this? Well, the above packages are a PITA to set up... JX requires ACE IIRC, and the whole compilation process is a real PITA. People with hints or otherwise willing to try feel free to share ideas etc... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 4:58:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED46614F31 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 04:58:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA64187; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:55:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:55:18 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: "David O'Brien" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: <19990327014750.C87460@relay.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, David O'Brien wrote: > > Well, would you mind doing a du on the cvs contrib part, and on a > > checked out copy, so I can see if it'll fit? > > src/contrib/egcs 40M > cvs/src/contrib/egcs 49M > cvs/src/gnu 12M (much less if the Attic is pruned) > > I also haven't trimmed out the archs we wont support and other misc files > we don't need yet. You know what you're doing, but I want to suggest that perhaps you want to run that archs part past Warner, who recently (boy, I hope it was Warner, I think it was) added the MIPS stuff into the tree, and is pretty strongly in favor of making cross-compilation possible. The amounts above, 100M, are ok, I can do that. It's going to take my anemic little link forever to get done, but I'm off to the races. Expect me to be somewhat slow answering Email! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 5:16:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rose.niw.com.au (app3022-2.gw.connect.com.au [203.63.119.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1D214F68 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 05:16:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ian@apdata.com.au) Received: from apdata.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rose.niw.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3B7A3203; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:46:14 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <36FCDA1E.AB2E7B2B@apdata.com.au> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:46:14 +1030 From: Ian West Organization: Applied Data Control X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jx@alice.wonderland.caltech.edu Subject: Re: amazing packages I just tripped over.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > On 27-Mar-99 Julian Elischer wrote: > > http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~jafl/jcc/ > > http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~jafl/jx/ > > Been there, still trying =( > > > maybe we can somehow get the FreeBSD Ports collection > > connected with this? > > Well, the above packages are a PITA to set up... > > JX requires ACE IIRC, and the whole compilation process is a real PITA. > People with hints or otherwise willing to try feel free to share ideas > etc... > > --- > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven > asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... > Network/Security Specialist > *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message I just compiled it under -current, worked like a charm, (read the 1st point in the faq (I read it last;-) You need to line /usr/include/X11 to /usr/X11R6/include/X11). You also need to uncomment 2 entries in ACE/ACE_wrappers/ace/config-freebsd.h, they are #define ACE_HAS_SIGINFO_T and #define ACE_HAS_SIGWAIT Diff is below... *** JX-1.1.20/ACE/ACE_wrappers/ace/config-freebsd.h Thu Dec 31 11:51:42 1998 --- JX-1.1.20.wkg/ACE/ACE_wrappers/ace/config-freebsd.h Sat Mar 27 20:23:26 1999 *************** *** 32,38 **** #define ACE_HAS_DIRENT #define ACE_USES_ASM_SYMBOL_IN_DLSYM #define ACE_LACKS_SIGSET ! //#define ACE_HAS_SIGINFO_T #define ACE_LACKS_SIGINFO_H #define ACE_LACKS_UCONTEXT_H #define ACE_LACKS_SI_ADDR --- 32,38 ---- #define ACE_HAS_DIRENT #define ACE_USES_ASM_SYMBOL_IN_DLSYM #define ACE_LACKS_SIGSET ! #define ACE_HAS_SIGINFO_T #define ACE_LACKS_SIGINFO_H #define ACE_LACKS_UCONTEXT_H #define ACE_LACKS_SI_ADDR *************** *** 169,175 **** #define ACE_HAS_MSG #define ACE_HAS_4_4BSD_SENDMSG_RECVMSG ! // #define ACE_HAS_SIGWAIT // Optimize ACE_Handle_Set for select(). #define ACE_HAS_HANDLE_SET_OPTIMIZED_FOR_SELECT --- 169,175 ---- #define ACE_HAS_MSG #define ACE_HAS_4_4BSD_SENDMSG_RECVMSG ! #define ACE_HAS_SIGWAIT // Optimize ACE_Handle_Set for select(). #define ACE_HAS_HANDLE_SET_OPTIMIZED_FOR_SELECT Hopefully I got that the right way around. Also I had to make make clean before it compiled, but that may have been because I didn't link X11 first... I compiled the source from the archive JX_source-1.1.20.1.tar.gz Set variables JX_INSTALL_ROOT and JX_LIB_ROOT as per where you wish the code and libs to be installed. If you run make without these set, it tells you anyway. After changing the one file, and making sure you have gmake, just run gmake freebsd. No extensive testing yet, but code_crusader seems to work right.. Hope this is of use to someone... Ian P.S. I have forwarded this to the JX mail address, I suspect strongly that the changes apply to FreeBSD 3.1 as well as -current, other than that, compilation was painless. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 8:15:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AADCB1528F for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:15:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA10159; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:15:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA04495; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:15:16 -0700 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:15:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199903271615.JAA04495@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: obrien@NUXI.com Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: <19990327014025.B87460@relay.nuxi.com> References: <19990326170514.A86355@relay.nuxi.com> <19990326185418.B86672@relay.nuxi.com> <199903270359.UAA03481@mt.sri.com> <19990327014025.B87460@relay.nuxi.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > The test suites do take a large chunk of space. I don't know if we > > > should commit the test suites to our tree, or not. > > > > I say not, since it's a 'static' release as far as FreeBSD goes. > > Theoretically, someone is using the test suites to make sure it works > > before we make it the standar compiler, so there is no need to continue > > testing it. :) > > Sure there is. We've made some changes to the code generation bits in > the past. Right, but however maintains the compiler *OR* changes the code should run the regression tests. The users shouldn't be saddled with them, since they will never run them (or have need to run them). Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 8:24:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A5AA14E5D for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:24:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA68183 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:22:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:22:33 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ElectricFence Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone out there who uses ElectricFence to catch malloc problems, and knows the correct compile options to make certain that ElectricFence's malloc, and not the libc malloc, gets called? I'm afraid just linking with -lefence won't be enough to make the libefence malloc override the libc malloc. Thanks. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 8:36:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (mail2.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B4B151D5 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:36:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-66-24.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.66.24]) by mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22700; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:35:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA41494; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:35:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: nate@mt.sri.com Cc: obrien@NUXI.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:15:16 -0700" <199903271615.JAA04495@mt.sri.com> References: <199903271615.JAA04495@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990327113511N.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:35:11 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 20 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Nate Williams > > Sure there is. We've made some changes to the code generation bits in > > the past. > > Right, but however maintains the compiler *OR* changes the code should > run the regression tests. The users shouldn't be saddled with them, > since they will never run them (or have need to run them). > Some users like having the tests for experimenting with patches and allowing the user base to help test the inevitable updates we'll be seeing (EGCS is a fairly active project). I suppose the EGCS port will remain useful for reconstructing the tests if someone wants them. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 8:48:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB26314E5D for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:48:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA10458; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:48:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA04757; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:48:08 -0700 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:48:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199903271648.JAA04757@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, obrien@NUXI.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: <19990327113511N.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> References: <199903271615.JAA04495@mt.sri.com> <19990327113511N.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Sure there is. We've made some changes to the code generation bits in > > > the past. > > > > Right, but however maintains the compiler *OR* changes the code should > > run the regression tests. The users shouldn't be saddled with them, > > since they will never run them (or have need to run them). > > Some users like having the tests for experimenting with patches and > allowing the user base to help test the inevitable updates we'll be > seeing (EGCS is a fairly active project). Then they can use the versions supplied with new versions of EGCS which they are testing. Again, we need to keep the base system as simple and small as it can be, and adding a bunch of tests that no-else uses seems silly. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 8:56:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0949A14F26 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:56:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id IAA92206; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:56:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:56:14 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Chuck Robey Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 Message-ID: <19990327085614.B87737@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19990327014750.C87460@relay.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 07:55:18AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I also haven't trimmed out the archs we wont support and other misc files > > we don't need yet. > > You know what you're doing, but I want to suggest that perhaps you want > to run that archs part past Warner, who recently (boy, I hope it was > Warner, I think it was) added the MIPS stuff into the tree, and is > pretty strongly in favor of making cross-compilation possible. Yes, it is due to his request of not cutting out the MIPS bits that I have yet to trim anything. I had the disk space, so was putting the trimming off until import time. I guess we keep i386, Alpha, MIPS, Sparc bits and trim the rest. > The amounts above, 100M, are ok, I can do that. It's going to take my > anemic little link forever to get done, but I'm off to the races. Only need to CVSup 50M or so. (*,v's and w/compression.... ;-)) -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 9: 0:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D15F7150E5 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:00:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id IAA92244; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:59:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:59:41 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 Message-ID: <19990327085941.C87737@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <199903271615.JAA04495@mt.sri.com> <19990327113511N.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990327113511N.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net>; from W Gerald Hicks on Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 11:35:11AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Some users like having the tests for experimenting with patches and > allowing the user base to help test the inevitable updates we'll be > seeing (EGCS is a fairly active project). > > I suppose the EGCS port will remain useful for reconstructing the tests > if someone wants them. Soon I will stop using the distfile for the port that contains the test suite. We need as much room as possible on the CDROM for other distfiles. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 9: 1:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B77154D9 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:01:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA68417; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:58:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:58:35 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Nate Williams Cc: W Gerald Hicks , obrien@NUXI.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: <199903271648.JAA04757@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > Sure there is. We've made some changes to the code generation bits in > > > > the past. > > > > > > Right, but however maintains the compiler *OR* changes the code should > > > run the regression tests. The users shouldn't be saddled with them, > > > since they will never run them (or have need to run them). > > > > Some users like having the tests for experimenting with patches and > > allowing the user base to help test the inevitable updates we'll be > > seeing (EGCS is a fairly active project). > > Then they can use the versions supplied with new versions of EGCS which > they are testing. > > Again, we need to keep the base system as simple and small as it can be, > and adding a bunch of tests that no-else uses seems silly. I think that Nate's right here. Yes, there's a need for testing, but the need is confined to a *very* small user community that is well served by the egcs port. There is no general requirement whatsoever for the testing software, no general justification, and in relative terms (compared against any software except egcs itself) it's very large in size. It cannot be justified. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 9:26: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1AA914BE0 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:25:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from localhost (dfr@localhost) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08999; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:25:23 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:25:23 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: "David O'Brien" Cc: Chuck Robey , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: <19990327085614.B87737@relay.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, David O'Brien wrote: > > > I also haven't trimmed out the archs we wont support and other misc files > > > we don't need yet. > > > > You know what you're doing, but I want to suggest that perhaps you want > > to run that archs part past Warner, who recently (boy, I hope it was > > Warner, I think it was) added the MIPS stuff into the tree, and is > > pretty strongly in favor of making cross-compilation possible. > > Yes, it is due to his request of not cutting out the MIPS bits that I > have yet to trim anything. I had the disk space, so was putting the > trimming off until import time. I guess we keep i386, Alpha, MIPS, Sparc > bits and trim the rest. I think we should keep the ARM bits too. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 9:32:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCF9014E5D for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:32:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id JAA92442; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:32:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:32:02 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Chuck Robey Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 Message-ID: <19990327093202.B92338@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <199903271648.JAA04757@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 11:58:35AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Again, we need to keep the base system as simple and small as it can be, > > and adding a bunch of tests that no-else uses seems silly. > > I think that Nate's right here. Yes, there's a need for testing, but > the need is confined to a *very* small user community that is well You two convinced me. :-) -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 9:32:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-1.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D6D915482 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08416; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:32:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:32:13 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Chuck Robey Cc: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ElectricFence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > Anyone out there who uses ElectricFence to catch malloc problems, and > knows the correct compile options to make certain that ElectricFence's > malloc, and not the libc malloc, gets called? I'm afraid just linking > with -lefence won't be enough to make the libefence malloc override the > libc malloc. I tend to assume if the EF startup screen is used (and you notice the massive slowdown) it's using the EF malloc. If you're still not convinced stick some debuggin printfs in there (or run it under gdb and set a breakpoint). - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 9:38: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BAF14D95 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:38:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25896; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:37:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903271737.MAA25896@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: More death to nfsiod Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:37:43 -0500 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I recently performed the upgrade to the machine that we were having NFS toubles with. It is not -STABLE as of yesterday. We are still experiencing weird NFS problems on it, and killing nfsiod still resolves most of them. At the end of this email is a script(1) session deomonstrating some of the problems. I looked at nfsiod, and I have no idea how it works, or even why it is needed. It apparently only consists of a single system call that never returns, nfssvc(NFS_BIOD, NULL); (or similiar). This bug was tickeled by performig the folowing tasks on the NFS mounted directory (NFSv2/UDP from a server of the eaxact same build). First I did a "mkisofs112 -J -o netscape.iso .netscape" .netscape contains about 70M of data, 12209 files, and 38 directories. I tickeled the bug before by using mkisofs112 to create an iso image of ie5.0 (arround 60M, 50 files, no directoreis). None of the mkisofs's have ever finished while nfsiod is running. That caused the symptoms, but resolved after a short time. then I issued a "dd if=/dev/zero bs=7k count=100 of=foo" to test NFS performance (a whopping 60K/s on a full-duplex 100M link). Then I did a "dd if=2megfile of=/dev/null", and that is where the script(1) session starts... Script started on Sat Mar 27 12:10:08 1999 sh-2.02$ inc I'm going to create the standard nmh path for you. [Using existing directory] install-mh: unable to write /cs/crossd/Mail/context: Not a directory inc: [install-mh aborted] sh-2.02$ pwd /amd/stagger/home1/a/crossd sh-2.02$ ls -la /amd/stagger/home1/a/crossd ls: /amd/stagger/home1/a/crossd: Not a directory sh-2.02$ ls . [list of directory] sh-2.02$ df -k . Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on stagger:/exports/home1 7874493 4236488 3008046 58% /amd/stagger/home1 sh-2.02$ mount | grep stagger | grep home1 stagger:/exports/home1 on /amd/stagger/home1 sh-2.02$ inc I'm going to create the standard nmh path for you. [Using existing directory] install-mh: unable to write /cs/crossd/Mail/context: Not a directory inc: [install-mh aborted] sh-2.02$ su Password: monica# ps auxww | grep nfsiod root 163 0.0 0.0 208 76 ?? S - 0:00.00 nfsiod -n 4 root 164 0.0 0.0 208 76 ?? I - 0:00.00 nfsiod -n 4 root 165 0.0 0.0 208 76 ?? I - 0:00.00 nfsiod -n 4 root 166 0.0 0.0 208 76 ?? I - 0:00.00 nfsiod -n 4 monica# kill 163 164 165 166 monica# exit sh-2.02$ inc Incorporating new mail into inbox... ?103+ 03/27 Chuck Robey Re: gdb 4.17<; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:54:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-66-24.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.66.24]) by mail1.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13474; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:53:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA86328; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:53:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: nate@mt.sri.com Cc: wghicks@bellsouth.net, obrien@NUXI.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:48:08 -0700" <199903271648.JAA04757@mt.sri.com> References: <199903271648.JAA04757@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990327125341D.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:53:41 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 27 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Nate Williams > > Then they can use the versions supplied with new versions of EGCS which > they are testing. Some of us are tracking them using CVS. The notion of a "release" in that case is as fuzzy as with our own -current and -stable branches. > > Again, we need to keep the base system as simple and small as it can be, > and adding a bunch of tests that no-else uses seems silly. That is why I said the port will remain important. I agree that the tests don't belong with the base system. Being able to use them implies a set of special tools that haven't even been prepared for public consumption yet. What's really important to me is that the EGCS compilers built in ports remain as true to the system installation as possible while also striving to build the distribution the 'EGCS' way, preserving their development support when possible. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 10:37:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33B68150B1 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:37:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA12357; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:36:44 +0200 (EET) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:36:44 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Doug Rabson Cc: "David O'Brien" , Chuck Robey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gdb 4.17 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Doug Rabson wrote: > On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, David O'Brien wrote: > > > > > I also haven't trimmed out the archs we wont support and other misc files > > > > we don't need yet. > > > > > > You know what you're doing, but I want to suggest that perhaps you want > > > to run that archs part past Warner, who recently (boy, I hope it was > > > Warner, I think it was) added the MIPS stuff into the tree, and is > > > pretty strongly in favor of making cross-compilation possible. > > > > Yes, it is due to his request of not cutting out the MIPS bits that I > > have yet to trim anything. I had the disk space, so was putting the > > trimming off until import time. I guess we keep i386, Alpha, MIPS, Sparc > > bits and trim the rest. > > I think we should keep the ARM bits too. > So which bits should be cut? Why not cut everything but x86, alpha & mips? We can always add the others in later (with relative ease). Indeed, adding in the compiler bits could very well go with adding the first bits for the arch to the tree. > -- > Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com > Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 11: 0:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailhub.psn.ie (mailhub.psn.ie [194.106.150.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8438815138 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:00:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cillian@mailhub.psn.ie) Received: from cillian (helo=localhost) by mailhub.psn.ie with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #3) id 10Qy2W-0001T2-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:42:36 +0000 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:42:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Cillian Sharkey To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Kernel panic with Userconfig on 3.1-STABLE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On a 3.1-STABLE system I noticed I could get the kernel to panic by doing the following: boot into userconfig (-c) go into visual mode press ? for help keep pressing 'D' for page down. once i got to the "end" i could still actually keep going "down" so to speak, and after seeing some rubbish on the screen (looked like the contents of memory to me) the kernel paniced and then rebooted due to a page fault I think. is this just my freaky system or has anybody else noticed this ? (on the same machine under a 2.2.6 generic kernel, this bug was not present though) Cillian. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 12:18:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freja.webgiro.com (10.0.29.209.212.in-addr.arpa [212.209.29.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB2814A23; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:18:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3C50C18C6; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:18:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392AD4999; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:18:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:18:06 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Greg Lehey Cc: Jesse , "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Taking panic dumps (was: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects (resolved)) In-Reply-To: <19990327174738.B425@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thursday, 25 March 1999 at 16:09:44 -0800, Jesse wrote: > > > >>> Thanks everybody for your help! FreeBSD is great and it's 80% about the > >>> community. Not that I didn't always know it. =) > >> > >> Notice that a core dump + kernel with symbols would still be very > >> useful to find *where* in our code is the bug. > > > > I asked in other messages if anyone still wanted me to do that. No one > > replied. Anyway, I'll do this at an off hour and get a core dump. > > OK. I really should put this in the FAQ, since it's really important. I agree - it's really important, that's why it's in the handbook. :-) Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 14:14:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF8F614BF7 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:14:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA01502 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:22:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:22:13 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: serial consol AND remote gdb possible? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been trying several combinations of flags to get one serial port to be my DDB/system console and the other to be my remote GDB port. So far the only thing that happens is that I break to DDB, type 'gdb', then continue, then I send a break over again and GDB chat comes up on the same line. This isn't what i want/need can someone give me working sio flags for this? I noticed that the alpha port does GDB output through special routines in sio.c *gdb*() while the i386 platform just seems to use the console. I spoke to Jordan and Mike about it but was told that i could do it with just flags. Here's some combinations i've tried: device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" flags 0x30 tty irq 4 device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" flags 0x40 tty irq 3 device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" flags 0x30 tty irq 4 device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" flags 0x50 tty irq 3 I've tried about 2 other combinations but I can't remember exactly which ones. What I would love would be for the kernel to inherit a variable from the bootloader to tell it which serial port to use. thanks, Alfred Perlstein - Admin, coder, and admirer of all things BSD. -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 4.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 16: 1:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ms2.eranet.net (ms2.eranet.net [203.95.230.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB92014E6F for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:01:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from supermi@usa.net) Received: from pentium-ii-450 (n243.n203-95-236.eranet.net [203.95.236.243]) by ms2.eranet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA06100; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:52:48 +0800 (CST) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:52:48 +0800 (CST) From: supermi@usa.net Message-Id: <199903272352.HAA06100@ms2.eranet.net> To: ¦U¦ìºô¤Í@ms2.eranet.net Subject: 99-3¤ë¥÷¥þ·s¥Ø¿ý¤W¥«¤F MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sorry,¦pªG¦¹«Ê«H³y¦¨±zªº§xÂZ,¤U¦¸¨M¤£¦Aµoµ¹±z ¦ý¹ï±z¦b¤WInternet¤Î¨Ï¥Î¹q¸£µ´¹ï·|¦³À°§U¡ ±z¬O§_§ä¤£¨ì¤@­Ó¥iªø´Á°t¦XªºªwÄѨÑÀ³°Ó©O? ¬O§_ÁÙ¦bºô¸ô­W­W´M³V............¨M¹ï¥i¥HÅý±zªø´Á¨ÑÀ³³f·½ ¦U¦¡¦U¼ËVCD,DBT,MP3,IMAGE,CAD,GAME,CAI,DK,GIF,ADULT,FONT,DIC À³¦³ºÉ¦³,¤@¦¸´N¯àÅý±z§ä¨ì±z©Ò»Ý­nªºªwÄÑ,¦hºØ¿ï¾Ü. ¤@«ß¨Ï¥Î¥Õª÷¤ù.¤ôÂŤù©Î¬Oª÷ºñ¤ù¿N¿ý,«OÃÒÃa¤ù¥i´« ¥»¤u§@«ÇªÃ«ù»ù®æ¤½¹D,ªA°È§Ö³tªº®Ä²v¬°±z´£¨Ñ³Ì¦nªºªwÄÑ ¨M¤£¬O¤@¯ë¤£¯à¥ÎªºªwÄÑ,±z¥i¶Rªº¦w¤ß,¥Îªº©ñ¤ß,¤£©È±z¤ñ¸û ´£¨Ñµ¹¤©»Ý­nªººô¤Í,¦pªG¨Ï¥Î¤£¿ù,·q½ÐÁʶR­ìª©,¨Ã´£¨Ñ¶l±H¥Ø¿ýªA°È ºô§} http://www.supercd.surf1.com/ §Y¥i¦b¯¸¤WÂsÄý©Î¬O¤U¸ü¥Ø¿ýºCºC¬Ý,¬Ý¦n¦b¤U©w³æ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 16:36:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B80B14BE2 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:36:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA12296 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA55656; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:36:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:36:21 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: kld questions X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14077.30470.231888.128618@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm interested in transforming our Trapeze/Myrinet device driver into a KLD, and I've got two specific questions about KLDs. o How do I attach a PCI device after boot time? Is this even supported? Can anybody point me at any sample code? o How do I make the KLD unload procedure wait until the module is ready to be unloaded? Is it legal to sleep? The motivation behind this question is that the driver allocates its own memory for receives, and wraps external mbufs around that memory. That means it has its own mbuf reference & free routines. It would be a bad thing if an mbuf the driver allocated was still floating around in the upper layers of the IP stack after the driver was unloaded -- eventually, M_FREE would call the no-longer existent ext_free() function. Thanks, Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 16:54:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0414214D07 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:54:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA20231; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:53:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:53:57 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199903280053.QAA20231@apollo.backplane.com> To: "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schimken@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: More death to nfsiod References: <199903271737.MAA25896@cs.rpi.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I recently performed the upgrade to the machine that we were having NFS :toubles with. It is not -STABLE as of yesterday. We are still experiencing :weird NFS problems on it, and killing nfsiod still resolves most of them. :At the end of this email is a script(1) session deomonstrating some of the :problems. : :I looked at nfsiod, and I have no idea how it works, or even why it is needed. :It apparently only consists of a single system call that never returns, :nfssvc(NFS_BIOD, NULL); (or similiar). Normally when a process issues a write() op over NFS, it must be issued synchronously from the process's context even if the kernel issues the write asynchronously internally. nfsiod processes allow the kernel to pass of these synchronous requests to a free nfsiod process so it doesn't stall the process trying to write(). This is also true ( I believe ) of read-ahead requests. The nfsiod processes just stick around in supervisor mode and pickup async NFS requests that the kernel passes onto them. :This bug was tickeled by performig the folowing tasks on the NFS mounted :directory (NFSv2/UDP from a server of the eaxact same build). :First I did a "mkisofs112 -J -o netscape.iso .netscape" .netscape contains about 70M of data, 12209 files, and 38 directories. I tickeled the bug before by :using mkisofs112 to create an iso image of ie5.0 (arround 60M, 50 files, no directoreis). None of the mkisofs's have ever finished while nfsiod is running. That caused the symptoms, but resolved after a short time. then I issued a :... :inc: [install-mh aborted] :sh-2.02$ pwd :/amd/stagger/home1/a/crossd :sh-2.02$ ls -la /amd/stagger/home1/a/crossd :ls: /amd/stagger/home1/a/crossd: Not a directory If any of your NFS mounts are running over AMD, please try running mkisofs using direct NFS mounts ( non-amd ) and see if that fixes your problem. I've so far been able to run mkisofs over NFS V3 mounts without any trouble, but I'll run my test script overnight and also try it with NFS V2 mounts. It would be helpful if you d escribed what the bug was... all I know is that the mkisofs's don't finish. Ok... is the rest of the system still operable? Does it lock up? Crash? What does 'ps axl' say? etc. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 17:17:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C61514C0C for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:17:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA34265; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:16:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: serial consol AND remote gdb possible? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:22:13 EST." Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:16:36 -0800 Message-ID: <34263.922583796@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've been trying several combinations of flags to get > one serial port to be my DDB/system console and > the other to be my remote GDB port. ddb/gdb go on the same port - you can't split functionalty along those lines. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 18:15:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F13150BD; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:14:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA17065; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:44:14 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA70046; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:44:11 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990328114410.U53452@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:44:10 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: Jesse , "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Debug kernel by default? (was: Taking panic dumps (was: 3.1-STABLE dies on 40+ connects (resolved))) References: <19990327174738.B425@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Andrzej Bialecki on Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 09:18:06PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 27 March 1999 at 21:18:06 +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Thursday, 25 March 1999 at 16:09:44 -0800, Jesse wrote: >>> >>>>> Thanks everybody for your help! FreeBSD is great and it's 80% about the >>>>> community. Not that I didn't always know it. =) >>>> >>>> Notice that a core dump + kernel with symbols would still be very >>>> useful to find *where* in our code is the bug. >>> >>> I asked in other messages if anyone still wanted me to do that. No one >>> replied. Anyway, I'll do this at an off hour and get a core dump. >> >> OK. I really should put this in the FAQ, since it's really important. > > I agree - it's really important, that's why it's in the handbook. :-) Well, there's a threshold difference between the handbook and the FAQ. In addition, the description in the handbook is rather confusing. I intend to overhaul it once the handbook comes out of its freeze (hopefully soon). In that connection, any comments about changing the default way of building a kernel to create a debug kernel and a stripped copy, and install the stripped copy? It would require about 10 MB more storage and a little more time to build the kernel, but since kgdb is useless without the debug symbols, and disk space is cheap, it seems to me that it would be worthwhile. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 19:23:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 102BC152C3 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:23:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA16693; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:31:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:31:46 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: serial consol AND remote gdb possible? In-Reply-To: <34263.922583796@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I've been trying several combinations of flags to get > > one serial port to be my DDB/system console and > > the other to be my remote GDB port. > > ddb/gdb go on the same port - you can't split functionalty along those > lines. This is what i was asking you about via irc, I think it can be done, the alpha port seems to do it but not in any configurable way. I'll figure it out and should have diffs in less than a day. What i'm planning on is finding out where the sio flags are first examined then hindged on the GDB ifdef setting the value for the serial port. The thing is that the man page is not very specific of what 0x40 really means: 0x00040 device is reserved for low-level IO (e. g. for remote kernel debugging) besides kernel debugging, what else could 0x40 be used for? I don't want to step on anyone's toes by making it _only_ signify GDB.... :) Would there be a better way to specify which port GDB is to be run on? What would be your preferance? (GDB_SIO=1 ?, flags?) thanks, -Alfred > > - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 27 23:50:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC84151E0 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:50:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com (s204m82.isp.whistle.com [207.76.204.82] (may be forged)) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA35826; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:47:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:47:42 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: amazing packages I just tripped over.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I got it to compile without much pain at all teh jxx package contains jcc there one just need to type "gmake freebsd" and it should make.. (on 2.2.8) I needed to add one line to tell it where to find the X11 include files (in about 5 Makefiles) and it compiled without any errror messages\ (oh yeah I needed to edit the freebsd config to add "ACE_HAVE_SIGWAIT") seems to work as advertised julian jx also contains a working ACE port as well.. On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > On 27-Mar-99 Julian Elischer wrote: > > http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~jafl/jcc/ > > http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~jafl/jx/ > > Been there, still trying =( > > > maybe we can somehow get the FreeBSD Ports collection > > connected with this? > > Well, the above packages are a PITA to set up... > > JX requires ACE IIRC, and the whole compilation process is a real PITA. > People with hints or otherwise willing to try feel free to share ideas > etc... > > --- > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven > asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... > Network/Security Specialist > *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message