From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 2:25:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C904114C2C; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:25:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:QGXUBFAWnR1ZUYIhrKFcmVVUgUeiB/5o@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7Wpl2) with ESMTP id SAA24462; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:25:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id SAA02517; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:29:34 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199909190929.SAA02517@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD-committers@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic() the system from the console (was: Re: kern/13721: There is no way to force system panic from console) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:31:06 +0930." <19990919113105.X55065@freebie.lemis.com> References: <73296.937561536@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19990919113105.X55065@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:29:34 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> He wanted a to be able to panic() a machine from console without being >> able to drop to DDB from console. I think this is because he believes >> that DDB is a security problem. :-) > >Well, I'm missing something: the beginning of this thread, so this may >not be 100% relevant, but I've just had the situation. So: > >I believe that panicing the system is also a security problem. But >sometimes people have hangs and just want to get a dump. Installing >DDB is overkill for this situation; how about a key attribute that >panics the system? That was exactly the suggestion the original poster made in his PR. He also believed that assiging the PANIC function to a key is no worse than having the DDB function key. >It would probably make sense to have a sysctl or >some such to enable it. Or, as the original poster, have a kernel compile option. I am not particularly attached to either of the ideas: the sysctl or the kernel compile option. But, I am now beginning to think sysctl may be better, as it would enable us to obtain a dump without recompiling the kernel. Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 3:52:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.skylink.it (ns.skylink.it [194.177.113.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B10CF14BCF for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 03:52:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hibma@skylink.it) Received: from heidi.plazza.it (va-134.skylink.it [194.185.55.134]) by ns.skylink.it (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12997; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:52:14 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heidi.plazza.it (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07784; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:51:45 GMT X-No-Spam: Neither the receipients nor the senders email address(s) are to be used for Unsolicited (Commercial) Email without the explicit written consent of either party; as a per-message fee is incurred for inbound and outbound traffic to the originator. Posted-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:51:45 GMT Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:51:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@heidi.plazza.it Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Wes Peters Cc: Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAPERSIZE in /etc/make.conf? In-Reply-To: <37E443D0.AB9C0881@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Should we have a PAPERSIZE variable (A4 vs. letter) in /etc/make.conf? > > > > - groff has the paper size set as compile time option. > > > > - Various ports that now exist in two versions or require the > > user to define the paper size at build time could automatically > > pull the value in. > > Yes. I think I encountered this with enscript the other day, too. Sent > the LaserJam into a blinking fit, displaying "PC LOAD A4". Us 'silly' people could appreciate an option like that. Would also reduce the number of ports having to specify this in the name of the port. Nick -- e-Mail: hibma@skylink.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 7: 7:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0877B150F6 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:07:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D164B1CC5; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:07:24 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Lee Cremeans Cc: amy@magellan.tip.CSIRO.AU, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice 5.1 (Sun version) on 3.3-STABLE In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:04:40 -0400." <19990919000440.A43549@erols.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:07:24 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <19990919140724.D164B1CC5@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lee Cremeans wrote: > On Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 12:50:09PM +1000, amy@magellan.tip.CSIRO.AU wrote: > > Hi, > > > > > > /kernel: shared address space fork attempted: pid: 281 > > /kernel: cmd setup.bin pid 281 tried to use non-present sched_yield > > last message repeated 1926 times > > > > Has anyone seen this and more importantly does anyone have any ideas on how > > to work around this. > > > sched_yield...your kernel probably doesn't have the POSIX real-time > scheduling stuff compiled in. Make sure these lines are in your config file: > > options "P1003_1B" > options "_KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING" > options "_KPOSIX_VERSION=199309L" > > reconfig, recompile, install and reboot. And also "shared address space fork attempted" means that you're using 3.x which doesn't have the ability to do rfork() on SMP. If you want to run staroffice under SMP, it has to be -current and -stable is not an option. > -lee Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 7:41: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lamb.sas.com (lamb.sas.com [192.35.83.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0201C14CF5; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwd@unx.sas.com) Received: from mozart (mozart.unx.sas.com [192.58.184.28]) by lamb.sas.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA08036; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bb01f39.unx.sas.com by mozart (5.65c/SAS/Domains/5-6-90) id AA21246; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:06:17 -0400 Received: (from jwd@localhost) by bb01f39.unx.sas.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA32894; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:06:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jwd) From: "John W. DeBoskey" Message-Id: <199909190306.XAA32894@bb01f39.unx.sas.com> Subject: Re: seek to negative offset? kern/6184 In-Reply-To: From Vadim Kolontsov at "Aug 31, 1999 12: 6:11 pm" To: vadim@tversu.ru (Vadim Kolontsov) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, phk@freebsd.org, des@freebsd.org, jkoshy@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I've been running the following patch (which uses discreet tests vs a common temp off_t variable). Would someone please consider committing either this patch or the one given in the pr? It doesn't really matter to me, but I would like to see this bug put to rest. Comments welcome! Thanks, John ps: The following patch differs from the one given in the pr for the simple reason that I don't like making assumptions about overflow handling during math operations. In the patch below, L_XTND nolonger depends on overflow assumptions, but L_INCR still does. L_INCR really needs to be something like: if ((MAXFILESIZE - fp->f_offset) < SCARG(uap, offset)) return (EINVAL); but, I am not aware of a MAXFILESIZE definition unless I try to construct one using operations based on the sizeof() an off_t. Comments? patch by dagill@sas.com Index: vfs_syscalls.c =================================================================== RCS file: /mirror/ncvs/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c,v retrieving revision 1.135 diff -u -r1.135 vfs_syscalls.c --- vfs_syscalls.c 1999/09/11 00:45:58 1.135 +++ vfs_syscalls.c 1999/09/19 02:48:59 @@ -1433,15 +1433,22 @@ return (ESPIPE); switch (SCARG(uap, whence)) { case L_INCR: + if ((fp->f_offset + SCARG(uap, offset)) < 0) + return (EINVAL); fp->f_offset += SCARG(uap, offset); break; case L_XTND: error=VOP_GETATTR((struct vnode *)fp->f_data, &vattr, cred, p); if (error) return (error); + if ((SCARG(uap, offset) < 0) && + ((-SCARG(uap, offset)) > vattr.va_size)) + return (EINVAL); fp->f_offset = SCARG(uap, offset) + vattr.va_size; break; case L_SET: + if (SCARG(uap, offset) < 0) + return (EINVAL); fp->f_offset = SCARG(uap, offset); break; default: > On Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 04:25:26PM -0400, John W. DeBoskey wrote: > > > The subject says it all... We have some code that scans files > > backwards... > > > > In looking through /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c I can't see > > where we do any validation on the resulting seek location... Do the > > appropriate folks think this is a bug? How about posix? Should I > > go ahead and submit a pr with a patch? > > I've just discovered kern/6184 (from Mar 1998, state: open). Seems like > patch which fixes it was never commited. > > V. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 7:44: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lamb.sas.com (lamb.sas.com [192.35.83.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AFBD14CF5 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:43:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwd@unx.sas.com) Received: from mozart (mozart.unx.sas.com [192.58.184.28]) by lamb.sas.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA08157; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bb01f39.unx.sas.com by mozart (5.65c/SAS/Domains/5-6-90) id AA20635; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:30:00 -0400 Received: (from jwd@localhost) by bb01f39.unx.sas.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA32777; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:29:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jwd) From: "John W. DeBoskey" Message-Id: <199909190229.WAA32777@bb01f39.unx.sas.com> Subject: Re: kern/13075 (was: Re: aio_*) In-Reply-To: From Wes Peters at "Sep 16, 1999 5:52: 1 pm" To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hand up... I have two machines running heavily hit aio based file server mechanisms. If the patches will apply to a -current system about 2 weeks old I'll give it a try... (atleast without too much trouble). And now for a wish: /*----------------------------------------------------------+ | ST_AIO | | | | A task in the ST_AIO state means that one of our | | aio_writes has finished. we will loop thru all | | outstanding aio_writes to see which one completed. | | | *----------------------------------------------------------*/ case ST_AIO: /*-----------------------------------------------------+ | loop to get completed write process. | *-----------------------------------------------------*/ for (j=0; j Christopher Sedore wrote: > > > > On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > Christopher Sedore wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Do you by any change have an idea how to fix PR kern/13075 > > > > > (signal is not posted for async I/O on raw devices) > > > > > > > > Yes. There is no code to post the signal unless the job is of the lio > > > > variety. Writing a fix took about 15 minutes (including reboot). > > > > Extensive testing not included, though the test program provided with the > > > > PR now functions. > > > > > > Great, now do you want to tackle aio_cancel? ;^) > > > > I've been holding off to see whether I can get the other aio patches for > > improved socket io committed. I don't want to do two versions of > > aio_cancel (the changes for sockets alter the way things are queued and > > hence the way that cancels have to be done). > > Good to hear. OK, show of hands: who's using aio_* and has the time to > test patches for Christopher? > > - -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 10:20:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailer.syr.edu (mailer.syr.edu [128.230.18.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D8C14CD4 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu) Received: from rodan.syr.edu by mailer.syr.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.B4CCE3E0@mailer.syr.edu>; 19 Sep 1999 13:20:14 -0400 Received: from localhost (cmsedore@localhost) by rodan.syr.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13108; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:20:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rodan.syr.edu: cmsedore owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:20:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Sedore X-Sender: cmsedore@rodan.syr.edu To: "John W. DeBoskey" Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/13075 (was: Re: aio_*) In-Reply-To: <199909190229.WAA32777@bb01f39.unx.sas.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Part of my patches is a new system call, aio_waitcomplete() which waits for an aio job to complete, and returns a pointer to the userland aiocb associated with the job. (This is a non-standard extension of my own creation). The patches are available from http://tfeed.maxwell.syr.edu, link is on the bottom of the page. -Chris On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, John W. DeBoskey wrote: > Hand up... > > I have two machines running heavily hit aio based file server > mechanisms. If the patches will apply to a -current system about > 2 weeks old I'll give it a try... (atleast without too much trouble). > > And now for a wish: > > /*----------------------------------------------------------+ > | ST_AIO | > | | > | A task in the ST_AIO state means that one of our | > | aio_writes has finished. we will loop thru all | > | outstanding aio_writes to see which one completed. | > | | > *----------------------------------------------------------*/ > case ST_AIO: > > /*-----------------------------------------------------+ > | loop to get completed write process. | > *-----------------------------------------------------*/ > for (j=0; j if (aio[j].task && > aio_error(&aio[j].iocb) != EINPROGRESS) { > > ie: you have to loop to determine which aio operation completed. > Looking thru the kernel, I don't see any easy way to fix this. > > But then, I may be missing something (which I don't understand) > about how to setup the sigevent structure: > > Aio generates the signal for me (setup via the sigevent struct), > but the sigev_value is not passed depending on how the kernel > processes the signal. > > > Thanks, > John > > > Christopher Sedore wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > > > Christopher Sedore wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you by any change have an idea how to fix PR kern/13075 > > > > > > (signal is not posted for async I/O on raw devices) > > > > > > > > > > Yes. There is no code to post the signal unless the job is of the lio > > > > > variety. Writing a fix took about 15 minutes (including reboot). > > > > > Extensive testing not included, though the test program provided with the > > > > > PR now functions. > > > > > > > > Great, now do you want to tackle aio_cancel? ;^) > > > > > > I've been holding off to see whether I can get the other aio patches for > > > improved socket io committed. I don't want to do two versions of > > > aio_cancel (the changes for sockets alter the way things are queued and > > > hence the way that cancels have to be done). > > > > Good to hear. OK, show of hands: who's using aio_* and has the time to > > test patches for Christopher? > > > > - -- > > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > > http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 10:38:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.dti.ne.jp (smtp.dti.ne.jp [210.170.128.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDF8E152BB for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:38:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shigio@tamacom.com) Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (PPP57.tama-ap5.dti.ne.jp [210.170.192.75]) by smtp.dti.ne.jp (8.9.0/3.7W) with ESMTP id CAA20706; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:38:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by choota.signet.or.jp (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id CAA01044; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:29:42 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199909191729.CAA01044@tamacom.com> To: Doug Cc: Shigio Yamaguchi , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL In-reply-to: Message from Doug of "Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:47:32 MST." <37E40874.976C5523@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:29:42 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug wrote: > possible. To my (albeit limited) knowledge nothing in the base depends on > GLOBAL, so I would be one of those who would be calling for its removal > from the base. Of course, a port of your program would be welcome, and in Nvi(1), more(1) and build system(bsd.*.mk) depends on GLOBAL. You need not remove BSD/GLOBAL from source tree, because it is BSD-style licensed. -- Shigio Yamaguchi - Tama Communications Corporation Mail: shigio@tamacom.com, WWW: http://www.tamacom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 10:38:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.dti.ne.jp (smtp.dti.ne.jp [210.170.128.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 865451530E for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shigio@tamacom.com) Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (PPP57.tama-ap5.dti.ne.jp [210.170.192.75]) by smtp.dti.ne.jp (8.9.0/3.7W) with ESMTP id CAA20716; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:38:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by choota.signet.or.jp (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id CAA01063; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:30:10 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199909191730.CAA01063@tamacom.com> To: Wes Peters Cc: Shigio Yamaguchi , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL In-reply-to: Message from Wes Peters of "Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:45:06 CST." <37E44022.9126EB3F@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:30:10 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > There are some types of software for which the GPL is the best license. > In my opinion, programming tools of many sorts -- compilers, linkers, > editors, assemblers -- fit into this category. Contrary to what some Tag system doesn't fit into this category? > believe, we BSD'ers are not rabid GPL haters, we just don't like to see > it attached to important pieces of software that developers might want > to turn into a product, because that limits the audience. I agree with you. But it depends on the part. GPL may be a menace for kernel and library code, because once including GPLed code then the whole of it must be distributed under GPL. But GPLed command brings no problem, because the rest of the system just "utilize" it, not "use it. GPL is not applied to "utilize". So the rest of the system is safe from GPL. -- Shigio Yamaguchi - Tama Communications Corporation Mail: shigio@tamacom.com, WWW: http://www.tamacom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 10:38:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.dti.ne.jp (smtp.dti.ne.jp [210.170.128.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C724415682 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:38:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shigio@tamacom.com) Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (PPP57.tama-ap5.dti.ne.jp [210.170.192.75]) by smtp.dti.ne.jp (8.9.0/3.7W) with ESMTP id CAA20721; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:38:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by choota.signet.or.jp (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id CAA01005; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:27:19 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199909191727.CAA01005@tamacom.com> To: Michael Kennett Cc: shigio@tamacom.com (Shigio Yamaguchi), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL In-reply-to: Message from Michael Kennett of "Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:09:17 +0800." <199909181409.WAA22184@laurasia.com.au> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:27:19 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Kennett wrote: > As the owner/author of a piece of software, you can distribute the source > code under any license that you like (GNU/BSD/Artistic etc...). Indeed, there > is no reason to choose just a single license under which you distribute your > code -- it should be possible for you to distribute the code under *both* > the GPL and the BSD licenses. It's possible. But it doesn't satisfy the idea of GPL. The purpose of GPL is to keep free software from becoming non-free software. So, distributing codes under both of GPL and a milder license like BSD is meaningless for GPL, because the milder license becomes an escape. I'm not particular about license but couldn't ignore the idea of license. > Does the license really matter? Surely the important consideration is quality > of the code? I agree with you. -- Shigio Yamaguchi - Tama Communications Corporation Mail: shigio@tamacom.com, WWW: http://www.tamacom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 10:38:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.dti.ne.jp (smtp.dti.ne.jp [210.170.128.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 678C7156A6 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:38:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shigio@tamacom.com) Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (PPP57.tama-ap5.dti.ne.jp [210.170.192.75]) by smtp.dti.ne.jp (8.9.0/3.7W) with ESMTP id CAA20728; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:38:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by choota.signet.or.jp (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id CAA01085; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:31:08 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199909191731.CAA01085@tamacom.com> To: Peter Wemm Cc: Shigio Yamaguchi , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL In-reply-to: Message from Peter Wemm of "Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:39:52 +0800." <19990919033952.CE26C1CA7@overcee.netplex.com.au> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:31:08 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Wemm wrote: > I think we should also remove the nvi patches as it contains global derived > code. Since GPL is incompatable with the (bsd-style) nvi license and the > global patches add code to nvi, then it would be better to remove the > conflicting code. You need not remove it, because I don't insist my copyright on the code. Please follow nvi's license. If needed, I'll write a legal paper for it. -- Shigio Yamaguchi - Tama Communications Corporation Mail: shigio@tamacom.com, WWW: http://www.tamacom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 10:38:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.dti.ne.jp (smtp.dti.ne.jp [210.170.128.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4B31530A for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:38:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shigio@tamacom.com) Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (PPP57.tama-ap5.dti.ne.jp [210.170.192.75]) by smtp.dti.ne.jp (8.9.0/3.7W) with ESMTP id CAA20709; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:38:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by choota.signet.or.jp (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id CAA01028; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:28:48 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199909191728.CAA01028@tamacom.com> To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: Shigio Yamaguchi , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL In-reply-to: Message from W Gerald Hicks of "Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:50:31 -0400." <199909181750.NAA03329@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:28:48 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG W Gerald Hicks wrote: > imho, global (a fine software package) shouldn't have been in the > OS source tree anyway. To me, the proper place seems to be in the > ports collection along with many other development utilities. It seems that you misunderstand. Current GLOBAL(3.53 and earlier) is BSD-style licensed and it is true for ever. I agree with the plan to make a ports of GNU/GLOBAL in the future. But you need not remove BSD/GLOBAL from source tree. -- Shigio Yamaguchi - Tama Communications Corporation Mail: shigio@tamacom.com, WWW: http://www.tamacom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 11:41:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369961525F for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:41:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (adsl-216-62-157-60.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIB00GDZL9C1I@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:41:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA36243; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:41:42 -0500 (CDT envelope-from chris) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:41:42 -0500 From: Chris Costello Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL In-reply-to: <199909191730.CAA01063@tamacom.com> To: Shigio Yamaguchi Cc: Wes Peters , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chris@calldei.com Message-id: <19990919134142.M12328@holly.calldei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.6i References: <199909191730.CAA01063@tamacom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 20, 1999, Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: > But GPLed command brings no problem, because the rest of the system just > "utilize" it, not "use it. GPL is not applied to "utilize". So the rest of > the system is safe from GPL. You cannot modify and incorporate a GPL command into a product which is sold in binary form only. You also cannot do such things with an embedded Unix system using said command. -- |Chris Costello |My mail reader can beat up your mail reader. `-------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 13:22:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (mail0.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ABE114E4F for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:22:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-216-78-101-27.asm.bellsouth.net [216.78.101.27]) by mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (3.3.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08487; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA00678; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:27:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199909192027.QAA00678@bellsouth.net> To: Shigio Yamaguchi Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:28:48 +0900." <199909191728.CAA01028@tamacom.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:27:31 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > imho, global (a fine software package) shouldn't have been in the > > OS source tree anyway. To me, the proper place seems to be in the > > ports collection along with many other development utilities. > It seems that you misunderstand. > Current GLOBAL(3.53 and earlier) is BSD-style licensed and it is true > for ever. I agree with the plan to make a ports of GNU/GLOBAL in the > future. But you need not remove BSD/GLOBAL from source tree. Well, perhaps I am an extremist :-) I am only an end-user, and not having commit priviledges anyway could only submit a change request. So don't interpret my opinion as what will actually be done. I haven't submitted a change request yet and will probably hold off until a more authoritative consensus has been reached. My concern is mostly with the increasing size of the base src tree and the intermediate files generated by make {world,release}. In the interest of moving toward a more modular FreeBSD and smaller base system, I believe that anything not absolutely essential to make {kernel,world,release} should be moved to ports. So even without the license change I would be in favor of moving GLOBAL to ports. Ports is not a second-rate place to have a package located, to the contrary, it often permits more active development since fears of breaking make {world,release} do not exist there. Best Regards, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 14:30: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from assaris.sics.se (assaris.sics.se [193.10.66.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BACF14E7A for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:29:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from assar@sics.se) Received: (from assar@localhost) by assaris.sics.se (8.9.3/8.7.3) id XAA01840; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:29:16 +0200 (CEST) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel debugging questions References: <5lvha945ln.fsf@assaris.sics.se> <19990917125419.G55065@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.68) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Assar Westerlund Date: 19 Sep 1999 23:29:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:54:19 +0930" Message-ID: <5logey380k.fsf@assaris.sics.se> Lines: 6 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey writes: > The nice thing about kadb is that it has a usable macro languge. Compared to ddb, yes. Compared to gdb, no. /assar To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 14:31:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 396CD15A33 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:30:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04578; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:31:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:31:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Julian Elischer Cc: Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > DEVFS itself works fine however a subsystem it required to be a useful > abstraction was vandalised and stripped out by some people who "didn't get > it" and it has not yet been replaced by equivalent code. It seems more correct (to me) to state that there was a furious disagreement over whether or not to allow some memory of file permissions in devfs. Since there was never any agreement, DEVFS has smoldered. I think there's general agreement it would be a good thing to have, but that argument over how to keep user configurations must be handled. Saying it was dumped by people who "didn't get it" isn't quite correct, just people who didn't agree with your viewpoint on permissions. It wasn't only your viewpoint, I know there were many other highly qualified folks who agreed with you, but there wasn't much spirit of compromise evinced. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include C programming, Electronics, 213 Lakeside Dr. Apt. T-1 | communications, and signal processing. Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic.mat.net: FreeBSD-current(i386) and (301) 220-2114 | jaunt.mat.net : FreeBSD-current(Alpha) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 14:36: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wank.necropolis.org (wank.necropolis.org [207.246.128.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F11D514C9B for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:35:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from todd@flyingcroc.net) Received: from localhost (todd@localhost) by wank.necropolis.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA43163 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from todd@flyingcroc.net) X-Authentication-Warning: wank.necropolis.org: todd owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:39:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Backman X-Sender: todd@wank.necropolis.org To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: panic: vm_fault Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings. I am having a little difficulty with one of my web/nfs servers and am in need of some guidance. I am getting the following errrors on this machine: ---------- panic: vm_fault; fault on nofault entry. addr: cc24a000 mp_lock=00000002; cpuid=o; lapicid=01000000 boot called on cpu#0 Syncing disks... ---------- the box freezes at this point. I am running the following on said box: 3.2-R mysql3.22.22 Apache1.3.6 asus p2bdf mb dual pII 400 1 gb ram Adaptec 2940B Ultra SCSI adapter Adaptec 3940A Ultra SCSI adapter 108gb total diskspace kernel config options: options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG maxusers 512 options NMBCLUSTERS=30720 I do *not* have maxmem set in the kernel and have not played with vmem options at the kernel level. One odd thing that I notice that when I get the machine back up and run 'top' the machine will stay up for 3-4 hours before I get the panic but if I don't run 'top' it will panic within an hour. Please forgive my ignorance as I admin 180 Freebsd servers and don't have much time to get advanced mental input... ;^) The box was running fine up until a week ago. Thanks in advance. - Todd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 14:54:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F085514D0F for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:54:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com ([209.157.86.2]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id OAA22559; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA75273; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:52:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:52:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199909192152.OAA75273@apollo.backplane.com> To: Chuck Robey Cc: Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: : :> DEVFS itself works fine however a subsystem it required to be a useful :> abstraction was vandalised and stripped out by some people who "didn't get :> it" and it has not yet been replaced by equivalent code. : :It seems more correct (to me) to state that there was a furious :disagreement over whether or not to allow some memory of file permissions :in devfs. Since there was never any agreement, DEVFS has smoldered. I :think there's general agreement it would be a good thing to have, but that :argument over how to keep user configurations must be handled. : :Saying it was dumped by people who "didn't get it" isn't quite correct, :just people who didn't agree with your viewpoint on permissions. It :wasn't only your viewpoint, I know there were many other highly qualified :folks who agreed with you, but there wasn't much spirit of compromise :evinced. : : :---------------------------------------------------------------------------- :Chuck Robey | Interests include C programming, Electronics, :213 Lakeside Dr. Apt. T-1 | communications, and signal processing. Well, I tried using it months ago but it crashed the machine a lot :-) Those bugs are supposedly fixed now, right? Can I go back to using it? It seems to me that we have to be able to change ownership/modes for DEVFS devices to deal with tty's and pty's properly. Are people arguing over that or are people arguing over whether the changes should be persistent or not? Personally I don't care if they aren't persistent, it's a simple matter to set things up in rc.local. I really want to be able to use DEVFS for my diskless startup code. Right now I have to wave my hands and do some magic to make /dev work right for diskless BOOTP startups. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 15: 6:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D72115206 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04767; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:06:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:06:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: <199909192152.OAA75273@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :It seems more correct (to me) to state that there was a furious > :disagreement over whether or not to allow some memory of file permissions > :in devfs. Since there was never any agreement, DEVFS has smoldered. I > :think there's general agreement it would be a good thing to have, but that > :argument over how to keep user configurations must be handled. > : > :Saying it was dumped by people who "didn't get it" isn't quite correct, > :just people who didn't agree with your viewpoint on permissions. It > :wasn't only your viewpoint, I know there were many other highly qualified > :folks who agreed with you, but there wasn't much spirit of compromise > :evinced. > : > : > :---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Well, I tried using it months ago but it crashed the machine a lot :-) > Those bugs are supposedly fixed now, right? Can I go back to using it? > > It seems to me that we have to be able to change ownership/modes for > DEVFS devices to deal with tty's and pty's properly. Are people arguing > over that or are people arguing over whether the changes should be > persistent or not? Personally I don't care if they aren't persistent, > it's a simple matter to set things up in rc.local. I think, if you go back to the archives, and look over the discussions, the real stumbling block was the persistence issue. Bugs can be fixed, but seeing as there was never any agreement over how to even approach the persistence question, it was an intractable issue. Personally, Matt, it would be *great* thing to have ... do you know of any way we could please both camps? They're pretty stubborn about it. > > I really want to be able to use DEVFS for my diskless startup code. Right > now I have to wave my hands and do some magic to make /dev work right > for diskless BOOTP startups. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include C programming, Electronics, 213 Lakeside Dr. Apt. T-1 | communications, and signal processing. Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic.mat.net: FreeBSD-current(i386) and (301) 220-2114 | jaunt.mat.net : FreeBSD-current(Alpha) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 15:47:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9101F152FA for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:47:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from home.elischer.org (home.elischer.org [207.76.204.203]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA42202; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:47:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@home.elischer.org To: Chuck Robey Cc: Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > DEVFS itself works fine however a subsystem it required to be a useful > > abstraction was vandalised and stripped out by some people who "didn't get > > it" and it has not yet been replaced by equivalent code. > > It seems more correct (to me) to state that there was a furious > disagreement over whether or not to allow some memory of file permissions > in devfs. Since there was never any agreement, DEVFS has smoldered. I > think there's general agreement it would be a good thing to have, but that > argument over how to keep user configurations must be handled. file permissions were not relevant to the code that was ripped out (the stackable disk partitionning layers) (called SLICE). > > Saying it was dumped by people who "didn't get it" isn't quite correct, > just people who didn't agree with your viewpoint on permissions. It > wasn't only your viewpoint, I know there were many other highly qualified > folks who agreed with you, but there wasn't much spirit of compromise > evinced. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include C programming, Electronics, > 213 Lakeside Dr. Apt. T-1 | communications, and signal processing. > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic.mat.net: FreeBSD-current(i386) and > (301) 220-2114 | jaunt.mat.net : FreeBSD-current(Alpha) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 15:52:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0E415132 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:52:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from home.elischer.org (home.elischer.org [207.76.204.203]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA42293; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:52:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@home.elischer.org To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Chuck Robey , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: <199909192152.OAA75273@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG as far as I know DEVFS itself is working just fine.. there was some problem with mfs and vn devices at some stage as they used 'dummy' vnodes that were set up to look like device nodes, but mfs and vn tried to use incestuous knowledge which was no longer true and crashed.. I believe that PHKs latest chages may have made it in-necessary for mfs and vn to do that any more.. I'll investigate and get back to you.. julian On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > :On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > : > :> DEVFS itself works fine however a subsystem it required to be a useful > :> abstraction was vandalised and stripped out by some people who "didn't get > :> it" and it has not yet been replaced by equivalent code. > : > :It seems more correct (to me) to state that there was a furious > :disagreement over whether or not to allow some memory of file permissions > :in devfs. Since there was never any agreement, DEVFS has smoldered. I > :think there's general agreement it would be a good thing to have, but that > :argument over how to keep user configurations must be handled. > : > :Saying it was dumped by people who "didn't get it" isn't quite correct, > :just people who didn't agree with your viewpoint on permissions. It > :wasn't only your viewpoint, I know there were many other highly qualified > :folks who agreed with you, but there wasn't much spirit of compromise > :evinced. > : > : > :---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > :Chuck Robey | Interests include C programming, Electronics, > :213 Lakeside Dr. Apt. T-1 | communications, and signal processing. > > Well, I tried using it months ago but it crashed the machine a lot :-) > Those bugs are supposedly fixed now, right? Can I go back to using it? > > It seems to me that we have to be able to change ownership/modes for > DEVFS devices to deal with tty's and pty's properly. Are people arguing > over that or are people arguing over whether the changes should be > persistent or not? Personally I don't care if they aren't persistent, > it's a simple matter to set things up in rc.local. > > I really want to be able to use DEVFS for my diskless startup code. Right > now I have to wave my hands and do some magic to make /dev work right > for diskless BOOTP startups. > > -Matt > Matthew Dillon > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 15:57:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF2014C31 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:57:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05033; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:57:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:57:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Julian Elischer Cc: Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > DEVFS itself works fine however a subsystem it required to be a useful > > > abstraction was vandalised and stripped out by some people who "didn't get > > > it" and it has not yet been replaced by equivalent code. > > > > It seems more correct (to me) to state that there was a furious > > disagreement over whether or not to allow some memory of file permissions > > in devfs. Since there was never any agreement, DEVFS has smoldered. I > > think there's general agreement it would be a good thing to have, but that > > argument over how to keep user configurations must be handled. > > file permissions were not relevant to the code that was ripped out (the > stackable disk partitionning layers) (called SLICE). But it was to the subject on the Subject: line, Julian. We know what side you're on, but there are 2 sides to the argument. Isn't there some way that it can be set up to *optionally* have permission persistence? If you would get past that point, then all the political problems that remain are solvable. Whatever, let's please not get into an argument over persistence, it's in the archives. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include C programming, Electronics, 213 Lakeside Dr. Apt. T-1 | communications, and signal processing. Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic.mat.net: FreeBSD-current(i386) and (301) 220-2114 | jaunt.mat.net : FreeBSD-current(Alpha) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 16:26:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mbox.ttm.bg (mbox.ttm.bg [195.230.0.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E136115010 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:26:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ian@bulinfo.net) Received: from cserv.oksys.bg (ipp-8-095-sofia.ttm.bg [195.230.8.95] (may be forged)) by mbox.ttm.bg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA29999 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:26:31 +0300 Received: from bulinfo.net (ian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cserv.oksys.bg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA38336 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:26:24 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ian@bulinfo.net) Message-ID: <37E57120.CE5FFEFC@bulinfo.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:26:24 +0300 From: Iani Brankov Organization: ok systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Putting fsck_msdos in the source tree? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I saw 'fsck_msdos' in the NetBSD sources. Does somebody plan to put it (or similar one) in the FreeBSD distribution? Thanks --iani To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 16:44: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 509581586C; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA05671; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:13:35 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:13:34 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: cvs-committers@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic() the system from the console (was: Re: kern/13721: There is no way to force system panic from console) Message-ID: <19990920091334.Q55065@freebie.lemis.com> References: <73296.937561536@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19990919113105.X55065@freebie.lemis.com> <199909190929.SAA02517@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199909190929.SAA02517@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>; from Kazutaka YOKOTA on Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 06:29:34PM +0900 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 19 September 1999 at 18:29:34 +0900, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > >>> He wanted a to be able to panic() a machine from console without being >>> able to drop to DDB from console. I think this is because he believes >>> that DDB is a security problem. :-) >> >> Well, I'm missing something: the beginning of this thread, so this may >> not be 100% relevant, but I've just had the situation. So: >> >> I believe that panicing the system is also a security problem. But >> sometimes people have hangs and just want to get a dump. Installing >> DDB is overkill for this situation; how about a key attribute that >> panics the system? > > That was exactly the suggestion the original poster made in his PR. > He also believed that assiging the PANIC function to a key > is no worse than having the DDB function key. I think that's a valid statement. Sure, you can return from ddb, whereas you can't from panic, but any abuse would be more likely to be accidental. I'd hope we could think of a *very* difficult key combination to press accidentally. I'd expect at least all of ctrl-alt-shift and some unusual character such as F13. >> It would probably make sense to have a sysctl or >> some such to enable it. > > Or, as the original poster, have a kernel compile option. > > I am not particularly attached to either of the ideas: the sysctl or > the kernel compile option. But, I am now beginning to think sysctl > may be better, as it would enable us to obtain a dump without recompiling > the kernel. That's my reasoning. Most people don't see a necessity for this function, but if they have a hang, they want to be able to enable it quickly. I've taken a look at Dmitry's code; it looks straightforward enough to me that we should commit it. I'll test it if anybody wants it. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 16:46:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A9EF14C08 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:46:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA05723; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:16:02 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:16:02 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Assar Westerlund Cc: Zhihui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel debugging questions Message-ID: <19990920091602.R55065@freebie.lemis.com> References: <5lvha945ln.fsf@assaris.sics.se> <19990917125419.G55065@freebie.lemis.com> <5logey380k.fsf@assaris.sics.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <5logey380k.fsf@assaris.sics.se>; from Assar Westerlund on Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 11:29:15PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 19 September 1999 at 23:29:15 +0200, Assar Westerlund wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: >> The nice thing about kadb is that it has a usable macro languge. > > Compared to ddb, yes. Compared to gdb, no. I'd rather have adb's macro language. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 17: 6:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arnold.neland.dk (mail.neland.dk [194.255.12.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBE51524F for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:06:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from leifn@neland.dk) Received: from gina (gina.neland.dk [192.168.0.14]) by arnold.neland.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA02041; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:06:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from leifn@neland.dk) Message-ID: <007b01bf02fb$f6fa2a20$0e00a8c0@neland.dk> From: "Leif Neland" To: "Greg Lehey" Cc: References: <73296.937561536@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19990919113105.X55065@freebie.lemis.com> <199909190929.SAA02517@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> <19990920091334.Q55065@freebie.lemis.com> Subject: Sv: panic() the system from the console (was: Re: kern/13721: There is no way to force system panic from console) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:06:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > That was exactly the suggestion the original poster made in his PR. > > He also believed that assiging the PANIC function to a key > > is no worse than having the DDB function key. >=20 > I think that's a valid statement. Sure, you can return from ddb, > whereas you can't from panic, but any abuse would be more likely to be > accidental. I'd hope we could think of a *very* difficult key > combination to press accidentally. I'd expect at least all of > ctrl-alt-shift and some unusual character such as F13. >=20 This is sufficently difficult to hit accidentially. My keyboard doesn't = have a F13 :-) Leif To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 17: 9:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA369155FC for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:09:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA05894; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:38:58 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:38:58 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Leif Neland Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sv: panic() the system from the console (was: Re: kern/13721: There is no way to force system panic from console) Message-ID: <19990920093858.S55065@freebie.lemis.com> References: <73296.937561536@axl.noc.iafrica.com> <19990919113105.X55065@freebie.lemis.com> <199909190929.SAA02517@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> <19990920091334.Q55065@freebie.lemis.com> <007b01bf02fb$f6fa2a20$0e00a8c0@neland.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <007b01bf02fb$f6fa2a20$0e00a8c0@neland.dk>; from Leif Neland on Mon, Sep 20, 1999 at 02:06:18AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 20 September 1999 at 2:06:18 +0200, Leif Neland wrote: >>> That was exactly the suggestion the original poster made in his PR. >>> He also believed that assiging the PANIC function to a key >>> is no worse than having the DDB function key. >> >> I think that's a valid statement. Sure, you can return from ddb, >> whereas you can't from panic, but any abuse would be more likely to be >> accidental. I'd hope we could think of a *very* difficult key >> combination to press accidentally. I'd expect at least all of >> ctrl-alt-shift and some unusual character such as F13. > > This is sufficently difficult to hit accidentially. My keyboard > doesn't have a F13 :-) Good choice, eh? But maybe we should do something else, then. It's up to the keyboard map to decide, anyway. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 18:30:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from demai02.mw.mediaone.net (demai02.mw.mediaone.net [24.131.1.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E8315AAD; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:30:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mtaylor@cybernet.com) Received: from cybernet.com (nic-c13-195.mw.mediaone.net [24.131.13.195]) by demai02.mw.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20434; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E58CEB.77F11EDF@cybernet.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:24:59 -0400 From: "Mark J. Taylor" Organization: Cybernet Systems Corp. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Custom boot.flp References: <37DE5F82.92A87782@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Johan Kruger wrote: > > I mounted the boot.flp image and replaced kernel.gz with my own, for use > of bootable CD. > I don't want the default sysinstall ( presumably compiled into the > kernel ) to come up on screen, instead i want a command prompt only. I > will insert my scripts into .profile. > The PROBLEM is that i get the message mounting root on fd0c while i am > actually booting from CDROM. In my kernel the default root device is Actually, when you boot from CD-ROM, you are really booting from the first floppy drive: for bootable "EL-TORITO" CD-ROMs, the motherboard's BIOS will make the specified boot image, present on the CD-ROM, look to the BIOS just like the first floppy disk drive. You may have some luck with "boot -C" (cd-rom). I've never really tried it. Also checkout the "boot -a" (ask-root) option. You can force these options to ALWAYS be active by creating a "/boot.config" file containing your boot-line options, like "0:fd(0,a)/kernel -C". For the release CD-ROM images, the kernel is compiled with the "MFS_ROOT" option, and a special program, release/write_mfs_in_kernel.c, is used to put the root filesystem image into the kernel. With the new forth-based boot loader, this is no longer necessary (I've done away with it in our product based on FreeBSD)- you can pre-load the MFS into a "variable", and the kernel will detect it/use it when it boots. To build a custom boot floppy image, you should be playing with the src/release/Makefile and friends. It's kinda tricky in there. As someone else stated, "/stand/sysinstall" is used as the "init" program on the release floppies (see src/sys/kern/init_main.c). You want to use a standard "init". Stick "init" in your boot_crunch.conf file for your boot floppy image. Good luck! (if you have any specific questions, email me directly: I troll this list only every week or so) -Mark Taylor NetMAX Developer mtaylor@cybernet.com http://www.netmax.com/ > wd0, but i tried to change kernel root to acd0 , and to no avail. > > I get : > ---------------------- > Mounting root device on fd0c > error mounting root on fd0c > -- will reboot in 15 seconds -- bla bla > ---------------------- > How do i tell it to mount it on CDROM ( probably wcd0a ) say for > instance /MYMOUNT_DIR ?? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Johan Kruger > Mr > Nanoteq > Development > > Johan Kruger > Mr > Nanoteq > Development > P.O BOX 12872 Onderstepoort 0110 South Africa;Pretoria;Gauteng;0110;South Africa Cellular: +27 83 3015923 > Fax: +27 12 6651343 > Home: +27 83 3015923 > Work: +27 12 6651338 > Netscape Conference Address > Netscape Conference DLS Server > Additional Information: > Last Name Kruger > First Name Johan > Version 2.1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 19:37:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from scam.xcf.berkeley.edu (scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 697E114E42 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:37:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nordwick@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu) Received: (qmail 78999 invoked by uid 27268); 20 Sep 1999 02:36:59 -0000 Message-ID: <19990920023659.78998.qmail@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> To: "John W. DeBoskey" Cc: wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/13075 (was: Re: aio_*) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:29:59 EDT." <199909190229.WAA32777@bb01f39.unx.sas.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <78997.937795018.1@scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:36:58 -0700 From: "Jason Nordwick" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >And now for a wish: [ST_AIO stuff cut] If I understand what you are trying to say, then when real time signals are added, this will be unnecessary. You can get the completion of an aio_* call from the signal queue. -jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 19:40:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from scam.xcf.berkeley.edu (scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6DC7914E42 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:40:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nordwick@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu) Received: (qmail 79068 invoked by uid 27268); 20 Sep 1999 02:40:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19990920024021.79067.qmail@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> To: "John W. DeBoskey" Cc: wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/13075 (was: Re: aio_*) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:29:59 EDT." <199909190229.WAA32777@bb01f39.unx.sas.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <79066.937795220.1@scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:40:21 -0700 From: "Jason Nordwick" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry forgot something: the Linux way of doing this is to fill in the si_band with information on what has happened. This sound acceptable and there is no need to be incompatible if the idea isn't too bad. -jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 21:48: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5005015132 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:48:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from [204.68.178.39] (helo=softweyr.com) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11SvMz-0002XB-00; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:48:06 -0600 Message-ID: <37E5BC81.B57D6396@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:48:01 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shigio Yamaguchi Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL References: <199909191730.CAA01063@tamacom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: > > > There are some types of software for which the GPL is the best license. > > In my opinion, programming tools of many sorts -- compilers, linkers, > > editors, assemblers -- fit into this category. Contrary to what some > > Tag system doesn't fit into this category? > > > believe, we BSD'ers are not rabid GPL haters, we just don't like to see > > it attached to important pieces of software that developers might want > > to turn into a product, because that limits the audience. > > I agree with you. But it depends on the part. > GPL may be a menace for kernel and library code, because once including > GPLed code then the whole of it must be distributed under GPL. > But GPLed command brings no problem, because the rest of the system just > "utilize" it, not "use it. GPL is not applied to "utilize". So the rest of > the system is safe from GPL. Unless it is a crucial part of the system, because the GPL attaches itself like a virus to everything it touches. For this reason, the FreeBSD Project has decided no GPL code will be included in the system itself, unless the USER specifically puts it there. This would include any part of your system. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 21:49:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A6715132 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:49:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from [204.68.178.39] (helo=softweyr.com) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11SvOU-00036P-00; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:49:39 -0600 Message-ID: <37E5BCE1.FE05A76D@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:49:37 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shigio Yamaguchi Cc: Michael Kennett , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL References: <199909191727.CAA01005@tamacom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: > > Michael Kennett wrote: > > > Does the license really matter? Surely the important consideration is quality > > of the code? > > I agree with you. No, the license really does matter if we want to keep FreeBSD FREE. We do. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 22:17:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2A4115249 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:17:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com ([209.157.86.2]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id WAA28914; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA77228; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:13:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:13:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199909200513.WAA77228@apollo.backplane.com> To: Chuck Robey Cc: Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :you're on, but there are 2 sides to the argument. Isn't there some way :that it can be set up to *optionally* have permission persistence? : :If you would get past that point, then all the political problems that :remain are solvable. : :Whatever, let's please not get into an argument over persistence, it's in :the archives. : :---------------------------------------------------------------------------- :Chuck Robey | Interests include C programming, Electronics, Personally speaking I don't see how permission persistence could possibly be implemented within DEVFS itself without a huge amount of work. I'm not sure it would be appropriate to implement it there anyhow when it is so easy to just make the necessary changes in rc.local. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 23: 8:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E619156E2 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:08:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31035; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:08:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Wes Peters Cc: Shigio Yamaguchi , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:48:01 MDT." <37E5BC81.B57D6396@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:08:02 -0700 Message-ID: <31031.937807682@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > like a virus to everything it touches. For this reason, the FreeBSD Project > has decided no GPL code will be included in the system itself, unless the Actually, that's not *quite* accurate. What we decided was that GNU code would be kept well-segregated from the rest, just to make it clear where the pitfalls were, and that we'd try not to take in any new GPL'd code or accept a GPL'd solution if there was a perfectly equivalent BSD copyrighted solution also available. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 23: 8:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABAFE1593A for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:08:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA83532; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:08:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:08:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multiple NAT alias addresses In-Reply-To: <19990917154559.A72386@relay.ucb.crimea.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > You know, natd(8) is not guilty, this is a bug in libalias(3) :-( > I have made a patch for this and yet another bug and will send my > patch for review to Brian Somers and Eivind Eklund. > > Please let me know if you would like to test these patches, and > THANK YOU VERY MUCH for digging this out, there was a cool hacking! I would be happy to. I still have the test environment. Someone restarted the firewall and it included my changes (no address for the default alias IP), and it's working perfectly. FreeBSD to the rescue once again! Doug White Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 19 23:25: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AADE114A25 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA21460; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:20:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Chuck Robey Cc: Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > But it was to the subject on the Subject: line, Julian. We know what side > you're on, but there are 2 sides to the argument. Isn't there some way > that it can be set up to *optionally* have permission persistence? Seems like a devfsd using the file monitoring hooks would work; you'd only update the persistent store if you were running devfsd. devfsd would read the store and init /dev with the contents. I think the only issue that would involve thinking would be whiteouts (and the actual devfsd code of course.) -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 1: 5: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC86158A3 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:04:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA94845; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id CAA16206; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909200802.CAA16206@harmony.village.org> To: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: what is devfs? Cc: Chuck Robey , Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:13:34 PDT." <199909200513.WAA77228@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199909200513.WAA77228@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:02:44 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199909200513.WAA77228@apollo.backplane.com> Matthew Dillon writes: : Personally speaking I don't see how permission persistence could possibly : be implemented within DEVFS itself without a huge amount of work. I'm : not sure it would be appropriate to implement it there anyhow when it : is so easy to just make the necessary changes in rc.local. I wrote about 50% of a devd that would sit and watch a /devfs mounted tree, recording changes to it and would then replay those changes when it was started again. I ran into some interesting problems making it fast, but this work predates jdp's work on having a tree watching interface. rc.local is a religious war and a security nightmare waiting to happen :-). Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 1: 8: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B67815AC2 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA94862; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:06:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id CAA16234; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:05:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909200805.CAA16234@harmony.village.org> To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Subject: Re: what is devfs? Cc: Chuck Robey , Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:20:06 EDT." References: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:05:43 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message "Matthew N. Dodd" writes: : Seems like a devfsd using the file monitoring hooks would work; you'd only : update the persistent store if you were running devfsd. devfsd would read : the store and init /dev with the contents. I think the only issue that : would involve thinking would be whiteouts (and the actual devfsd code of : course.) Yes. That's my thinking as well. I was also thinking of having devfsd do more than simpler persistance. I had plans, which I never tried to implement, of having it assume some of the roles of pccardd and usbd... Too bad I've lost the original start I made on devfsd. At least I can't find it on my home systems right now. I fear I either lost it in a disk crash, or when I left my last employer... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 1:51: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hromeo.algonet.se (hromeo.algonet.se [194.213.74.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EEF2514E1F for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:50:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mal@algonet.se) Received: (qmail 15115 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 10:50:56 +0200 Received: from enok.algonet.se (194.213.74.88) by hromeo.algonet.se with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 10:50:56 +0200 Received: from kairos.algonet.se ([194.213.74.18]) by algonet.se (BLUETAIL Mail Robustifier1.0.4) with ESMTP ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:50:55 GMT Received: (mal@localhost) by kairos.algonet.se (8.8.8+Sun/8.6.12) id KAA16875; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:50:54 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:50:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909200850.KAA16875@kairos.algonet.se> X-Authentication-Warning: kairos.algonet.se: mal set sender to mal@kairos.algonet.se using -f From: Mats Lofkvist To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: > It seems that you misunderstand. > Current GLOBAL(3.53 and earlier) is BSD-style licensed and it is true for ever. > I agree with the plan to make a ports of GNU/GLOBAL in the future. > But you need not remove BSD/GLOBAL from source tree. But bugfixes and/or developments needed by the core FreeBSD tools will have to be done on the BSD licensed version of global (since the core system isn't supposed to depend on ports), isn't this going to lead to the split of the global development in two? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 1:52:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Wit389306.student.utwente.nl (wit389306.student.utwente.nl [130.89.234.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F67151CD for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:52:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djb@Wit389306.student.utwente.nl) Received: (from djb@localhost) by Wit389306.student.utwente.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17525 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:52:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from djb) From: "Dave J. Boers" Message-Id: <199909200852.KAA17525@Wit389306.student.utwente.nl> Subject: reading from pcm device To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:52:10 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have been working on a small program to record from the microphone of my SB16PnP using the pcm driver. Could anyone explain to me why I get a kernel panic if I read() 8192 bytes at a time (in 8 bit audio, single channel, 41k4 Hz)? The kernel panic message is (from notes) panic: feed_root: uiomove failed mp_lock=00000001; cpuid=0; lapci.id=00000000 boot() called on cpu#0 The panic doesn't occur if I read only 256 bytes at a time, but if I also make writes in between reading blocks (writes to stdout, for example, using write() to write the block that's just been read), the problem also happens with 256 bytes blocks. I know that the problem doesn't occur for write()'s to the audio device, since, for example, WSoundServer uses a blocksize of 8192 bytes and it works fine for me. This has been happening on a -current machine running SMP on ABIT BP6 with dual Celeron. The test program runs as an ordinary user, of course. The processors are overclocked, but bus speed is still 66MHz and system runs fine otherwise. Eager for your comments, Dave Boers. Dave J. Boers Graduate student of Theoretical Physics ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Primary email address: djb@relativity.student.utwente.nl Please DO NOT use d.j.boers@student.utwente.nl because it won't be read! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 3: 2:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E4B14D30; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:02:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09347; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:02:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: members@funy.org Subject: FUNY Installfest Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ON September 22nd, this Wednesday, (Free)*BSD Users of New York will be holding an Install-fest. Anyone in the New York area (and outside) is invited. More information can be gotten from http://www.bsdunix.net or www.funy.org -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 3:30:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from atdot.dotat.org (atdot.dotat.org [150.101.89.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 037C615629 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:30:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@atdot.dotat.org) Received: (from newton@localhost) by atdot.dotat.org (8.9.3/8.7) id TAA48175 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:59:11 +0930 (CST) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199909201029.TAA48175@atdot.dotat.org> Subject: RE: Some more commentary and results on 'postmark' (fwd) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:59:11 +0930 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I forwarded Brad Knowles' comments about the PostMark benchmarking suite to a NetApp engineer I happen to have known since my teens. Selected portions of his comments are included below (with permission) for your entertainment and elucidation. - mark A NetApp person wrote: > Brad Knowles wrote: > > > Both the client and server systems were 90%+ *IDLE* during all tests. > > I/O bound is fun! :) > > > The benchmark has a number of problems. The 'postmark' program > > isn't forking at all, so there is a serious bottleneck in the process > > itself, especially whenever a read is issued. It doesn't really give > > us an accurate representation of a multi-tasking load. Most > > NFS servers have a multitasking load so it isn't really a fair test. > > I don't think Jeff was really all that interested in accurate comparisons of > multi-tasking NFS performance -- for that, we've got SPEC SFS, which has > been the standard method of comparing NFS performance for more than a > decade. > > > The benchmark shows pretty clearly the inefficiency of large UFS > > directories. Putting 20000 files in a single directory is not fun, > > and it seriously skews the test results considering what the benchmark > > is supposed to be testing. > > Jeff's favourite problem domain is mail services, which have traditionally > been lots-of-small-files-in-a-directory stuff. His benchmark reflects that > focus. Thankfully, you can tweak the options to make it reflect some (but > not all) other problem domains. > > > It seems pretty clear to me that this benchmark has been designed > > to show-off the netapp in the best possible light and its competitors > > in the worst possible light. Well, ok, that may be an overly-harsh > > assessment, but it is still true to some degree. > > Actually, it's not true to *any* degree, and I know because I talked to Jeff > Katcher (and his boss at the time, Andy Watson) whilst he was developing it > and writing the white paper. > > PostMark was written to shame Sun and HP into improving their single-task > NFS CLIENT performance by showing them how much better FreeBSD and Linux > performed. Pure and simple. > > Jeff stopped coding as soon as he had something which was vaguely tunable to > reflect different application loads (you don't have to have a fixed ratio of > files to transactions, guys) and which showed the kinds of performance > problems we'd seen with real live applications and the latest revisions of > the commercial NFS clients which, thanks to introduction of a few more > internal abstraction layers, were considerably slower than their > predecessors. > > > The benchmark is seriously flawed. > > To paraphrase a hundred posts in freebsd-security: don't complain > unless you're willing to write the code that fixes the problem, or at least > suggest implementable solutions to the author. I'm sure Jeff will be more > than happy to revise the benchmark if time permits, and I'll be forwarding > the posts to him so he's got some impetus. :) -------------------------------------------------------------------- I tried an internal modem, newton@atdot.dotat.org but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton ----- Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 ------------- Fax: +61-8-82231777 ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 4:23:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from not.demophon.com (ns.demophon.com [193.65.70.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CB2114F51 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:22:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@not.demophon.com) Received: (from will@localhost) by not.demophon.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id OAA98267; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:22:50 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from will) To: zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhihui Zhang) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multiple routes to the same destination References: From: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Date: 20 Sep 1999 14:22:49 +0300 In-Reply-To: zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu's message of "17 Sep 1999 17:53:11 +0300" Message-ID: <8667154yk6.fsf@not.demophon.com> Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhihui Zhang) writes: > As said by the 4.4 BSD book (page 423), 4.4 BSD does not support multiple > routes to the same destination (identical key and mask). Does the radix > tree code in FreeBSD - 4.0 has the same limitation? I am wondering if > there is already a solution for this? How would the routing code use multiple routes? You'd need additional rules to determine how to use them (e.g. round-robin for load balancing). In some cases where you want something unusual, you can use different net sizes for the same net. The code selects the route with the smallest net (or at least used to - I don't know whether this is documented behavior). Note that the destination presumably means the destination where the data being routed should end up, not the gateway it is sent to. Multiple routes referring to the same gateway are obviously supported. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 4:30:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freja.webgiro.com (freja.webgiro.com [212.209.29.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E98AE14FA0 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:30:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 42A5C1914; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:30:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4179249EC; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:30:00 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:30:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Chuck Robey Cc: Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > > > On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > > > DEVFS itself works fine however a subsystem it required to be a useful > > > > abstraction was vandalised and stripped out by some people who "didn't get > > > > it" and it has not yet been replaced by equivalent code. > > > > > > It seems more correct (to me) to state that there was a furious > > > disagreement over whether or not to allow some memory of file permissions > > > in devfs. Since there was never any agreement, DEVFS has smoldered. I > > > think there's general agreement it would be a good thing to have, but that > > > argument over how to keep user configurations must be handled. > > > > file permissions were not relevant to the code that was ripped out (the > > stackable disk partitionning layers) (called SLICE). > > But it was to the subject on the Subject: line, Julian. We know what side > you're on, but there are 2 sides to the argument. Isn't there some way > that it can be set up to *optionally* have permission persistence? I was one of the early consumers of DEVFS/SLICE. It mostly worked then, without any persistance. What Julian is saying is that there was some point in time when the things worked as they should for the DEVFS, just without keeping any persistance. The code which was removed had nothing to do with the persistance either. So, as it is now DEVFS doesn't work properly, but not because of the lack of persistance or some disagreements on this issue - it's just missing the SLICE code. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 4:36:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freja.webgiro.com (freja.webgiro.com [212.209.29.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D541B14DFC for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:36:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 539911914; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:36:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 509EF49EC; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:36:42 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:36:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Cc: Zhihui Zhang , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multiple routes to the same destination In-Reply-To: <8667154yk6.fsf@not.demophon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20 Sep 1999, Ville-Pertti Keinonen wrote: > > zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhihui Zhang) writes: > > > As said by the 4.4 BSD book (page 423), 4.4 BSD does not support multiple > > routes to the same destination (identical key and mask). Does the radix > > tree code in FreeBSD - 4.0 has the same limitation? I am wondering if > > there is already a solution for this? > > How would the routing code use multiple routes? You'd need additional > rules to determine how to use them (e.g. round-robin for load > balancing). Or assign them a weight. When the link goes down, the routes attached to this interface decrease in weight by NN. If there is any other route to the same destination with greater weight, the packets are sent that way instead. Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 4:45:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ockle.nanoteq.co.za (ockle.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.91.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B63214DFC for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:45:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Received: from oskar.nanoteq.co.za (localhost.nanoteq.co.za [127.0.0.1]) by ockle.nanoteq.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA54407 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:42:24 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Message-ID: <37E61D9F.4A108436@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:42:23 +0200 From: Johan Kruger Reply-To: jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za Organization: Nanoteq X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE-990722 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Crunching pkg_add ? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------689976259212F23154204000" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------689976259212F23154204000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been playing with picobsd ( the router option ) and have been adding stuff to crunch - no problem, untile i wanted to add pkg_add to crunch. The problem is is that libinstall.a uses cleanup that is defined elsewhere. I get the following : look at attachment ? --------------689976259212F23154204000 Content-Type: application/x-troff; name="t.t" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="t.t" /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(plist.o): In function `read_plist': plist.o(.text+0x58c): undefined reference to `cleanup' /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(plist.o): In function `write_plist': plist.o(.text+0x767): undefined reference to `cleanup' /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(file.o): In function `fileGetContents': file.o(.text+0x71d): undefined reference to `cleanup' file.o(.text+0x754): undefined reference to `cleanup' file.o(.text+0x797): undefined reference to `cleanup' /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(file.o)(.text+0x908): more undefined references to `cleanup' follow *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 --------------689976259212F23154204000 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="jkruger.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Johan Kruger Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jkruger.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kruger;Johan tel;cell:+27 83 3015923 tel;fax:+27 12 6651343 tel;home:+27 83 3015923 tel;work:+27 12 6651338 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nanoteq;Development version:2.1 email;internet:jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za title:Mr adr;quoted-printable:;;P.O BOX 12872=0D=0AOnderstepoort=0D=0A0110=0D=0ASouth Africa;Pretoria;Gauteng;0110;South Africa x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Johan Kruger end:vcard --------------689976259212F23154204000-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 5:30:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E349158CA for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:30:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA74671; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:26:50 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from jhay) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199909201226.OAA74671@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Multiple routes to the same destination In-Reply-To: from Andrzej Bialecki at "Sep 20, 1999 01:36:42 pm" To: abial@webgiro.com (Andrzej Bialecki) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:26:50 +0200 (SAT) Cc: will@iki.fi (Ville-Pertti Keinonen), zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhihui Zhang), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > > As said by the 4.4 BSD book (page 423), 4.4 BSD does not support multiple > > > routes to the same destination (identical key and mask). Does the radix > > > tree code in FreeBSD - 4.0 has the same limitation? I am wondering if > > > there is already a solution for this? > > > > How would the routing code use multiple routes? You'd need additional > > rules to determine how to use them (e.g. round-robin for load > > balancing). IIRC there was some patches around a long time ago to do this kind of thing. > > Or assign them a weight. When the link goes down, the routes attached to > this interface decrease in weight by NN. If there is any other route to > the same destination with greater weight, the packets are sent that way > instead. But can't gated do this? (Or any other routing daemon for that matter.) You don't need kernel support to do this. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 6:30:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ockle.nanoteq.co.za (ockle.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.91.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC99514C3F; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:30:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Received: from oskar.nanoteq.co.za (localhost.nanoteq.co.za [127.0.0.1]) by ockle.nanoteq.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA70031; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:27:46 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Message-ID: <37E63651.CE1F2E41@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:27:45 +0200 From: Johan Kruger Reply-To: jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za Organization: Nanoteq X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE-990722 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Crunching pkg_add ? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9988C1F91264127D3E0093E5" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9988C1F91264127D3E0093E5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been playing with picobsd ( the router option ) and have been adding stuff to crunch - no problem, untile i wanted to add pkg_add to crunch. The problem is is that libinstall.a uses cleanup that is defined elsewhere. How do i add pkg_add to the crunch binary ? I use the following in crunch.conf: ------------------------------------------------------- progs add special add srcdir /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/add libs -L/usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib -linstall -lmd ------------------------------------------------------- I get the following : look at attachment if you like ? --------------9988C1F91264127D3E0093E5 Content-Type: application/x-troff; name="t.t" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="t.t" /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(plist.o): In function `read_plist': plist.o(.text+0x58c): undefined reference to `cleanup' /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(plist.o): In function `write_plist': plist.o(.text+0x767): undefined reference to `cleanup' /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(file.o): In function `fileGetContents': file.o(.text+0x71d): undefined reference to `cleanup' file.o(.text+0x754): undefined reference to `cleanup' file.o(.text+0x797): undefined reference to `cleanup' /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(file.o)(.text+0x908): more undefined references to `cleanup' follow *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 --------------9988C1F91264127D3E0093E5 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="jkruger.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Johan Kruger Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jkruger.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kruger;Johan tel;cell:+27 83 3015923 tel;fax:+27 12 6651343 tel;home:+27 83 3015923 tel;work:+27 12 6651338 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nanoteq;Development version:2.1 email;internet:jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za title:Mr adr;quoted-printable:;;P.O BOX 12872=0D=0AOnderstepoort=0D=0A0110=0D=0ASouth Africa;Pretoria;Gauteng;0110;South Africa x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Johan Kruger end:vcard --------------9988C1F91264127D3E0093E5-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 6:34:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ockle.nanoteq.co.za (ockle.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.91.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F46514CC5; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:34:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Received: from oskar.nanoteq.co.za (localhost.nanoteq.co.za [127.0.0.1]) by ockle.nanoteq.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA70578; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:31:30 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Message-ID: <37E63732.37A30DE8@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:31:30 +0200 From: Johan Kruger Reply-To: jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za Organization: Nanoteq X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE-990722 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Crunching pkg_add ? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E9C4C4BC471CC863561B2C69" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E9C4C4BC471CC863561B2C69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 've been playing with picobsd ( the router option ) and have been adding stuff to crunch - no problem, untile i wanted to add pkg_add to crunch. The problem is is that libinstall.a uses cleanup that is defined elsewhere. How do i add pkg_add to the crunch binary ? I use the following in crunch.conf: ------------------------------------------------------- progs add special add srcdir /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/add libs -L/usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib -linstall -lmd ------------------------------------------------------- I get the following : look at attachment if you like ? --------------E9C4C4BC471CC863561B2C69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="err.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="err.txt" /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(plist.o): In function `read_plist': plist.o(.text+0x58c): undefined reference to `cleanup' /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(plist.o): In function `write_plist': plist.o(.text+0x767): undefined reference to `cleanup' /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(file.o): In function `fileGetContents': file.o(.text+0x71d): undefined reference to `cleanup' file.o(.text+0x754): undefined reference to `cleanup' file.o(.text+0x797): undefined reference to `cleanup' /usr/src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/lib/libinstall.a(file.o)(.text+0x908): more undefined references to `cleanup' follow *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 --------------E9C4C4BC471CC863561B2C69 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="jkruger.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Johan Kruger Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jkruger.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kruger;Johan tel;cell:+27 83 3015923 tel;fax:+27 12 6651343 tel;home:+27 83 3015923 tel;work:+27 12 6651338 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nanoteq;Development version:2.1 email;internet:jkruger@oskar.nanoteq.co.za title:Mr adr;quoted-printable:;;P.O BOX 12872=0D=0AOnderstepoort=0D=0A0110=0D=0ASouth Africa;Pretoria;Gauteng;0110;South Africa x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Johan Kruger end:vcard --------------E9C4C4BC471CC863561B2C69-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 8:32:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA274153EA for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:32:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA50056; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:31:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:31:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: <199909200513.WAA77228@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :Whatever, let's please not get into an argument over persistence, it's in > :the archives. > : > :---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > :Chuck Robey | Interests include C programming, Electronics, > > Personally speaking I don't see how permission persistence could possibly > be implemented within DEVFS itself without a huge amount of work. I'm > not sure it would be appropriate to implement it there anyhow when it > is so easy to just make the necessary changes in rc.local. I know your opinions (and I know they're shared by others) but that's precisely what I asked to avoid above. Let's agree, at least, that there are two opinions on this; would it be possible, perhaps with a devfsd daemon, to allow a user to choose whether or not to have persistent permissions outside of rc.local? I'm not asking you to write this (I wouldn't ask you to code something you are personally opposed to); I'm asking if such an approach might make a compromise possible, so that devfs could maybe operate both ways (with & without persistence)? Let's not get into an argument over whether persistence is good or not; let's see if we can make the argument pointless. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include C programming, Electronics, 213 Lakeside Dr. Apt. T-1 | communications, and signal processing. Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic.mat.net: FreeBSD-current(i386) and (301) 220-2114 | jaunt.mat.net : FreeBSD-current(Alpha) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 8:49:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFD7A14CA6 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:49:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01869; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:49:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Warner Losh Cc: Matthew Dillon , Chuck Robey , Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: <199909200802.CAA16206@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Warner Losh wrote: > I wrote about 50% of a devd that would sit and watch a /devfs mounted > tree, recording changes to it and would then replay those changes when > it was started again. I ran into some interesting problems making it > fast, but this work predates jdp's work on having a tree watching > interface. rc.local is a religious war and a security nightmare > waiting to happen :-). Well, with devd or devfsd its still going to read the persistant store when started by the system on reboot; I'd imagine you'd be able to make checkpoint intervals tunable and tell it which permission updates you wanted to ignore and use the defaults; tty devices come to mind. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 8:54:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C0D151E0 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:54:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:0/ju4wG/wAyJxW2Sl3wpMmISi38A6dNw@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.3/3.7Wpl2) with ESMTP id AAA29373 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:54:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id AAA07459; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:58:37 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199909201558.AAA07459@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: keeping termcap up to date Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:58:37 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just wonder why don't we just import termcap database from the master site: http://www.tuxedo.org/terminfo, rather than maintaining our own copy? In the past, it has been pointed out that some of the termcap entries needs updating. Some entries have been revised. But, it appears that some others haven't, and we are now getting out of sync with the latest version of the terminal database. The simplest and the easiest thing to do is to just import the master copy from the above site... Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 9: 6:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt014nb6.san.rr.com (dt014nb6.san.rr.com [24.30.129.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F1D5150B8 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:06:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt014nb6.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02061; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:06:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Message-ID: <37E65B82.D60552D8@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:06:26 -0700 From: Doug Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Schwartz Cc: Mike Smith , Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: TSC vs. I8254 (Was: RE: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/conf files.i386 src/sys/i386/i386 mp_clock.c) References: <000001bf0347$bd39b3e0$021d85d1@youwant.to> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > No, the TSC is far superior on UP, (unless destroyed by APM), it > > > has roughly 100 times better resolution and is twice as fast to > > > query. If y'all don't mind, I have a slightly related question. I have a 5 year old Dell computer that started life as a P90, which I overclocked to run as a P100 by moving the bus speed up to 33 from 30 for a long time without apparent problems. Then about 2 years ago I got one of those fancy OverDrive chips (a 150, which was what was rated for my board, which I overclocked at the same bus speed to run as a 166). After a few months of running fine about every other boot up freebsd would report the wrong clock speed. It was always a seemingly random value, with no pattern I could discern. On a tip from one of the lists I started experimenting with the CLK_ options in LINT, and finally found one in the 2.2.x branch that managed to get me the right clock speed on say 9 out of 10 boots, so I was happy. That option (options "CLK_USE_I586_CALIBRATION") went away in 3.x, so now I'm down to choosing between options "CLK_USE_I8254_CALIBRATION" and options CLK_USE_TSC_CALIBRATION. I tried the I8254 option first, and it gives me what I want, namely the right cpu speed on every boot. However based on the conversation regarding this thread I'm wondering if I should try the TSC calibration method instead? I know that someone will be tempted to warn me about the evils of overclocking, but please don't. :) However, just in case anyone is interested either the overclocking or the overdrive chip seems to have fried the on-board serial ports on this machine. I've been trying for months to get a serial console on it, and couldn't figure out why all I ever got was garbage no matter how many different configurations I tried. Well, I'm finally in a position where I have a third computer to try, and lo and behold my workstation machine can run a serial console just fine, but the server machine was all scrambled. So, last night I bought a serial port card and voila, FINALLY I have a serial console. TIA for any insights, Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 9:15:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lamb.sas.com (lamb.sas.com [192.35.83.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8ED15057 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:15:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwd@unx.sas.com) Received: from mozart (mozart.unx.sas.com [192.58.184.28]) by lamb.sas.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA01125; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bb01f39.unx.sas.com by mozart (5.65c/SAS/Domains/5-6-90) id AA04131; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:51:40 -0400 Received: (from jwd@localhost) by bb01f39.unx.sas.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA38839; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:51:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jwd) From: "John W. DeBoskey" Message-Id: <199909200451.AAA38839@bb01f39.unx.sas.com> Subject: Re: kern/13075 (was: Re: aio_*) In-Reply-To: <19990920023659.78998.qmail@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> from Jason Nordwick at "Sep 19, 1999 7:36:58 pm" To: nordwick@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu (Jason Nordwick) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, another code fragment might be useful: /*--------------------------------------------------------------+ | Set up iocb for aio_write() call | +--------------------------------------------------------------*/ memset(iocb, 0, sizeof(struct aiocb)); iocb->aio_fildes = atask->tfd; iocb->aio_offset = 0; iocb->aio_buf = fileaddr; iocb->aio_nbytes = (int)cb.st_size; iocb->aio_sigevent.sigev_notify = SIGEV_SIGNAL; iocb->aio_sigevent.sigev_signo = SIGAIO; /* currently USR1 */ *** iocb->aio_sigevent.sigev_value.sigval_ptr = atask; Note the last line above where we would like to signal value to the address of the task which started the io operation. At io completion/signal delivery time the signal value can then be recovered from the 'code' parameter of the signal handler (since this is a soft interupt code is not required to hold a hardware indication/value). void handler(sig, code, scp) int sig, code; struct sigcontext *scp; Unfortunately, the 'psignal' function used called from vfs_aio.c only takes a signo parameter, and kern_sig.c wouldn't understand how to hold onto the new code value anyways if the signal recipient isn't curproc. ie: the difference between psignal() and trapsignal(). Anyways, it the above worked, then you could always tell which aio request had completed. Thus, no looping would be required in the userland app nor in the kernel with a 'find the next completed aio request' syscall. Comments welcome! -John > >And now for a wish: > [ST_AIO stuff cut] > > > If I understand what you are trying to say, then > when real time signals are added, this will be unnecessary. > You can get the completion of an aio_* call from the signal > queue. > > -jason > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 9:19:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6686A14EB8 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:19:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA23657; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:17:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Doug Cc: David Schwartz , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TSC vs. I8254 (Was: RE: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/conf files.i386 src/sys/i386/i386 mp_clock.c) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:06:26 PDT." <37E65B82.D60552D8@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:17:49 +0200 Message-ID: <23655.937844269@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If you have access to a frequency counter it could be interesting to measure the actual clockfrequency of the 14.318 MHz xtal in your machine... -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 9:21:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEBE614CC2 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA62489; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:20:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:20:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Mats Lofkvist Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL In-Reply-To: <199909200850.KAA16875@kairos.algonet.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Mats Lofkvist wrote: > Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: > > It seems that you misunderstand. > > Current GLOBAL(3.53 and earlier) is BSD-style licensed and it is true for ever. > > I agree with the plan to make a ports of GNU/GLOBAL in the future. > > But you need not remove BSD/GLOBAL from source tree. > > But bugfixes and/or developments needed by the core FreeBSD tools > will have to be done on the BSD licensed version of global > (since the core system isn't supposed to depend on ports), > isn't this going to lead to the split of the global development > in two? I think that Jerry, in using GLOBAL as an example to push his desire for a smaller FreeBSD, rather clouded the issue. I would wish that, if Shigio doesn't actually assign the copyright to the FSF, then he can release it under both copyrights, and please everyone. If Jerry wants to have FreeBSD be smaller, I think that this method wasn't a good way to start his campaign. Shigio was probably taken aback by Jerry's proposal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include C programming, Electronics, 213 Lakeside Dr. Apt. T-1 | communications, and signal processing. Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic.mat.net: FreeBSD-current(i386) and (301) 220-2114 | jaunt.mat.net : FreeBSD-current(Alpha) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 9:29:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E34D5150AF for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:29:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA96358; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:29:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA18279; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:28:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909201628.KAA18279@harmony.village.org> To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Subject: Re: what is devfs? Cc: Matthew Dillon , Chuck Robey , Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:49:20 EDT." References: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:28:45 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message "Matthew N. Dodd" writes: : Well, with devd or devfsd its still going to read the persistant store : when started by the system on reboot; I'd imagine you'd be able to : make checkpoint intervals tunable and tell it which permission updates you : wanted to ignore and use the defaults; tty devices come to mind. Yes. That's true. That's why the idea of devfsd is simple, but implementing it well enough for people to be happy with it is much much harder. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 9:43:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from calliope1.fm.intel.com (calliope1.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F56314CEF for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:43:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpokorny@pcocd2.intel.com) Received: from pcocd2.intel.com (pcocd2.intel.com [132.233.250.145]) by calliope1.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.6 1998/11/24 22:10:56 iwep Exp iwep $) with ESMTP id JAA28990 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eng.fm.intel.com (dpokorny-mobl.fm.intel.com [132.233.44.25]) by pcocd2.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1+p1/d: pcocd2.m4,v 1.4 1990/03/11 18:13:40 jcampbel Exp jcampbel $) with ESMTP id JAA17238 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E664EF.15758999@eng.fm.intel.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:46:39 -0700 From: Douglas Pokorny Organization: Intel Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Infrared trackball diffs available Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG All: A few days ago I was at Office Max and bought an InterAct "Web.Remote professional". For those of you who don't know, its an infrared remote control which contains a trackball, two trackball buttons, and an 18-key keypad. It was a pretty good deal for $17US. My ultimate goal is to use it to control my mp3 playing FreeBSD server. As a result, I spent time this weekend figuring out the protocol it uses and modified moused to work with it. It's a completely non-standard 6-byte-per-packet protocol, but was fairly easy to integrate into the existing moused daemon. If anyone would like the diffs to the daemon, please let me know and I'd be happy to send them out. The current moused supports up to 31 buttons on a device. However, the level 1 sysmouse protocol only supports 10. As a result, I'm still trying to decide how to handle the keypad on the remote. I'm probably going to follow the x10netremote example, but would appreciate any suggestions that people have. -Douglas -----------------------------+----------------------------- Douglas R. Pokorny | The views expressed here are dpokorny@pcocd2.fm.intel.com | my own and do not reflect Intel IDS0 - Core Services | those of Intel Corporation. -----------------------------+----------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 10:36:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 278AE15119 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04173; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:35:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Warner Losh Cc: Matthew Dillon , Chuck Robey , Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: <199909201628.KAA18279@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Warner Losh wrote: > Yes. That's true. That's why the idea of devfsd is simple, but > implementing it well enough for people to be happy with it is much > much harder. I think a minimal feature set for the first rev would satisify 90% of those wanting persistence no? ie just tracking permissions and owners for everything, and restoring them to their previous state on startup. This would require that devfsd be started fairly early. Adding a tunable checkpoint interval would be fairly simple. Beyond that it would be a matter of what specific features the 'power users' wanted. This simple behavior would nearly exactly mimic the behavior of a normal filesystem based /dev. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 11:42: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B1215B91 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:42:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id LAA20116; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA03539; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:28:00 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn4.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA04257; Mon, 20 Sep 99 11:40:39 PDT Message-Id: <37E67FA7.3ACA0062@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:40:39 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: keeping termcap up to date References: <199909201558.AAA07459@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > > I just wonder why don't we just import termcap database from > the master site: http://www.tuxedo.org/terminfo, rather than > maintaining our own copy? > > In the past, it has been pointed out that some of the termcap entries > needs updating. Some entries have been revised. But, it appears that > some others haven't, and we are now getting out of sync with the > latest version of the terminal database. > > The simplest and the easiest thing to do is to just import > the master copy from the above site... If we import it, we don't have much of an opportunity to QA it. Not that we do a lot of that anyhow. ;^) Given the copyright state, I certainly find no objections: # This file deliberately has no copyright. It belongs to no one and everyone. # If you claim you own it, you will merely succeed in looking like a fool. # Use it as you like. Use it at your own risk. Copy and redistribute freely. # There are no guarantees anywhere. Svaha! ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 11:53:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (beelzebubba.sysabend.org [209.201.74.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33C7315AD0 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:53:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 9F55F427B; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 33A109C60; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:53:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Peter Wemm Cc: Shigio Yamaguchi , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL In-Reply-To: <19990919033952.CE26C1CA7@overcee.netplex.com.au> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: :Will you be assigning the copyright to the FSF? (ie: you'll never be able :to change your mind? 50 years is a long time...) 70 now I believe. Changed to be compatible with the euros, who are all 70 years apparently. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 13:30:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kermit.empireone.net (kermit.empireone.net [207.111.39.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607EE15B55; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:30:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from admin2@empireone.net) Received: from EntWood (EntWood.empireone.net [209.118.194.235]) by kermit.empireone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA06144; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:30:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ward R Goodwin" To: , , Subject: Help - Fasttrak iede raid host adapter and freebsd Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:29:00 -0400 Message-ID: <002901bf03a6$c59cb820$eb64640a@EntWood.empireone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone have this working? I tried the default install disks and thought I'd ask here before I start trial and error on the storage section of the bootup. The default probes did not see any hard drives at all. Just to be clear. The Fasttrak is an pci card that supports 2 ide channels. I have it set up to use a disk from each channel and mirror. 2 X 4 gig drives to give me 4 gig of mirrored drive. The company mentions in the doc's that some motherboards may see it as a scsi device. If it helps the fasttrak is version 1.06 (Build 2). Thank you for your time, Ward Ward Goodwin System Administrator EmpireOne wardish@null.net admin1@empireone.net 17 Computer Drive East Phone (518) 453-1111 Fax (518) 489-6706 Albany, NY 12205 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Systems are interdependent, I'm indeterminate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 13:53:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (mail0.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5751E14C59 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:53:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-216-78-39-98.ath.bellsouth.net [216.78.39.98]) by mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (3.3.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04831; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA08018; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:58:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199909202058.QAA08018@bellsouth.net> To: Chuck Robey Cc: Mats Lofkvist , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:20:49 EDT." Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:58:30 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think that Jerry, in using GLOBAL as an example to push his desire for a > smaller FreeBSD, rather clouded the issue. I would wish that, if Shigio > doesn't actually assign the copyright to the FSF, then he can release it > under both copyrights, and please everyone. If Jerry wants to have > FreeBSD be smaller, I think that this method wasn't a good way to start > his campaign. Perhaps; this is why I rescinded my offer to do all the legwork and take on the burden of maintaining the port :-) Seriously, I believe GLOBAL and FreeBSD would _both_ be better served by having it installed from ports anyway. Note that gozilla isn't even installed by the version in /usr/src, owing to its need for things coming from ports (X, Netscape). > Shigio was probably taken aback by Jerry's proposal. But not nearly as taken aback as I was that a BSD package is going GPL. :-( -- Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 13:56:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kermit.empireone.net (kermit.empireone.net [207.111.39.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA30414C59; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:56:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from admin2@empireone.net) Received: from EntWood (EntWood.empireone.net [209.118.194.235]) by kermit.empireone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09747; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:56:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ward R Goodwin" To: "Mike Smith" Cc: , , Subject: RE: Help - Fasttrak eide raid host adapter and FreeBSD Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:55:13 -0400 Message-ID: <004001bf03aa$6f022b40$eb64640a@EntWood.empireone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <199909202036.NAA01092@dingo.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Mike, Thanks for the reply. I guess (unless lightning strikes in the next few hours) I'll go ahead and set up as 2 IDE drives without mirror and see if I can get FreeBSD to see it. If that doesn't work then back to the motherboard IDE channels... BTW it might be software but it's bios level. Just after the motherboard bios access. Just like when you use scsi raid controllers. So if they get it right it should be able to emulate a "standard" IDE drive and not require drivers... I was hoping someone had a hack that could translate from what the card bios shows and allow me to go ahead and load FreeBSD. Thank you for your time, Ward Ward Goodwin System Administrator EmpireOne wardish@null.net admin1@empireone.net 17 Computer Drive East Phone (518) 453-1111 Fax (518) 489-6706 Albany, NY 12205 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Systems are interdependent, I'm indeterminate > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Smith [mailto:mike@smith.net.au] > > Anyone have this working? > > The FastTrak RAID is performed in software; the > hardware on the board > itself is just an ordinary two-channel IDE controller. > > Promise claim they will be releasing a Linux driver > sometime later this > year; the situation will be re-evaluated at that point. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 14: 6:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F8B15D23 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:06:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01212; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:58:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199909202058.NAA01212@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Ward R Goodwin" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help - Fasttrak eide raid host adapter and FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:55:13 EDT." <004001bf03aa$6f022b40$eb64640a@EntWood.empireone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:58:55 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I didn't notice the first time that you'd copied three separate lists with your first message. Please don't do that; one list is enough. > Thanks for the reply. I guess (unless lightning strikes in the > next few hours) I'll go ahead and set up as 2 IDE drives without > mirror and see if I can get FreeBSD to see it. If that doesn't > work then back to the motherboard IDE channels... You might as well just go back to the motherboard channels right now; the FastTrak won't give you any advantages. > BTW it might be software but it's bios level. Just after the > motherboard bios access. Just like when you use scsi raid > controllers. So if they get it right it should be able to emulate > a "standard" IDE drive and not require drivers... No, it doesn't work like that. The OS is required to supply it's own, FastTrak-compatible software RAID driver to take over from the BIOS. > I was hoping someone had a hack that could translate from what the > card bios shows and allow me to go ahead and load FreeBSD. No; there is no hope of this in the short to medium term. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 14:50:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kermit.empireone.net (kermit.empireone.net [207.111.39.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87BD515409 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:50:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from admin2@empireone.net) Received: from EntWood (EntWood.empireone.net [209.118.194.235]) by kermit.empireone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA17102; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:50:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ward R Goodwin" To: "Mike Smith" Cc: Subject: RE: Help - Fasttrak eide raid host adapter and FreeBSD Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:49:26 -0400 Message-ID: <004601bf03b2$024065a0$eb64640a@EntWood.empireone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <199909202058.NAA01212@dingo.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. BTW sorry for the 3 lists. Tried to pick out the lists that were pert. Must admit it looks rather silly on this end as I'm signed up to those plus a few. Should I use the questions list or try to pick out the most pert. list? Ward > -----Original Message----- > Mike Smith > I didn't notice the first time that you'd copied three > separate lists > with your first message. Please don't do that; one > list is enough. > > > Thanks for the reply. I guess (unless lightning > strikes in the > > next few hours) I'll go ahead and set up as 2 IDE > drives without > > mirror and see if I can get FreeBSD to see it. If > that doesn't > > work then back to the motherboard IDE channels... > > You might as well just go back to the motherboard > channels right now; > the FastTrak won't give you any advantages. > > > BTW it might be software but it's bios level. Just after the > > motherboard bios access. Just like when you use scsi raid > > controllers. So if they get it right it should be > able to emulate > > a "standard" IDE drive and not require drivers... > > No, it doesn't work like that. The OS is required to > supply it's own, > FastTrak-compatible software RAID driver to take over > from the BIOS. > > > I was hoping someone had a hack that could translate > from what the > > card bios shows and allow me to go ahead and load FreeBSD. > > No; there is no hope of this in the short to medium term. > > -- > \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith > \\ of the man. \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ -- Joseph Merrick \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 15: 8:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smople.thehub.com.au (smople.thehub.com.au [203.143.240.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92368153C1; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:58:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from richard@thehub.com.au) Received: from richard (pc228.internal.thehub.com.au [203.143.240.228]) by smople.thehub.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA13852; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:57:40 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: From: "Richard Uren" To: "'Ward R Goodwin'" Cc: , , Subject: RE: Help - Fasttrak eide raid host adapter and FreeBSD Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:54:24 +1000 Message-ID: <000001bf03b2$b4c90c40$e4f08fcb@thehub.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <004001bf03aa$6f022b40$eb64640a@EntWood.empireone.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ward, I purchased one last week - A FastTrak66 (which is perhaps not the 'FastTrack' you mentioned. Its detects as a 'PCI - Mass Storage Controller' (in the Bios startup) and unless there is some 'emulate an IDE drive' mode that I missed it won't work. Its a cool idea tho. This might be better http://www.icp.net.au/raid1/default.htm (I should have one of these today). Ive also tried http://www.accordance.com.tw/araid-(1).html bu Im getting odd disk errors and strange panics when the system is idling along (but make world works fine .... - Ive just received a list of preferred drives from these guys and i'll be testing this today/tomorrow as well). Cheers Richard > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Ward R Goodwin > Sent: Tuesday, 21 September 1999 6:55 > To: Mike Smith > Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; > freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: RE: Help - Fasttrak eide raid host adapter and FreeBSD > > > Hi Mike, > > Thanks for the reply. I guess (unless lightning strikes in the > next few hours) I'll go ahead and set up as 2 IDE drives without > mirror and see if I can get FreeBSD to see it. If that doesn't > work then back to the motherboard IDE channels... > > BTW it might be software but it's bios level. Just after the > motherboard bios access. Just like when you use scsi raid > controllers. So if they get it right it should be able to emulate > a "standard" IDE drive and not require drivers... > > I was hoping someone had a hack that could translate from what the > card bios shows and allow me to go ahead and load FreeBSD. > > Thank you for your time, > > Ward > > Ward Goodwin System Administrator EmpireOne > wardish@null.net admin1@empireone.net 17 Computer Drive East > Phone (518) 453-1111 Fax (518) 489-6706 Albany, NY 12205 > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Systems are interdependent, I'm indeterminate > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike Smith [mailto:mike@smith.net.au] > > > Anyone have this working? > > > > The FastTrak RAID is performed in software; the > > hardware on the board > > itself is just an ordinary two-channel IDE controller. > > > > Promise claim they will be releasing a Linux driver > > sometime later this > > year; the situation will be re-evaluated at that point. > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 16: 1:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.vnet.net (smtp2.vnet.net [166.82.1.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68BB14C58 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:01:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp2.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA21073; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA88024; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.2/8.6.9) id TAA36367; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:00:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199909202300.TAA36367@lakes.dignus.com> To: peter@netplex.com.au, ragnar@sysabend.org Subject: Re: GNU GLOBAL Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, shigio@tamacom.com, wghicks@bellsouth.net In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: > > :Will you be assigning the copyright to the FSF? (ie: you'll never be able > :to change your mind? 50 years is a long time...) > > 70 now I believe. Changed to be compatible with the euros, who are all 70 > years apparently. If I understand things correctly, there will soon be legislation introduced to increase that time. Apparently, some companies, particularly Disney - were the big backers of the move to 70 years (to protect Mickey, et al) But, I've been lead to believe that the music and film industry has been pushing quite hard to increase that number... - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 16: 2:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4689515391 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (z.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27484 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:02:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909202302.TAA27484@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: missing files with NFSv3 and Solaris2.7 machine... Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:02:25 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We have a number of solaris 2.78 machines (I am in the process of installing them now), and I notice that if I ls a directory that is mounted NFSv3/UDP from a FreeBSD server to a Solaris 2.7 client there are a number of files that show up missing. This is most intreaging with a large untar as I can do 'ls | wc -l' in a directory and watch the numbers dance: *e inbox $ ls | wc -l 668 *e inbox $ ls | wc -l 710 *e inbox $ ls | wc -l 794 *e inbox $ ls | wc -l 248 *e inbox $ ls | wc -l 836 Any ideas what isn't working correctly? -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Systems Administrator/Research Programmer | Web: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~crossd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 16: 3:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mg-20425418-51.ricochet.net (mg-20425427-42.ricochet.net [204.254.27.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A6315D18 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by mg-20425418-51.ricochet.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id QAA14056; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990920160107.33337@hydrogen.fircrest.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:01:07 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Cc: Chuck Robey , Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Matthew N. Dodd on Mon, Sep 20, 1999 at 02:20:06AM -0400 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew N. Dodd scribbled this message on Sep 20: > On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > But it was to the subject on the Subject: line, Julian. We know what side > > you're on, but there are 2 sides to the argument. Isn't there some way > > that it can be set up to *optionally* have permission persistence? > > Seems like a devfsd using the file monitoring hooks would work; you'd only > update the persistent store if you were running devfsd. devfsd would read > the store and init /dev with the contents. I think the only issue that > would involve thinking would be whiteouts (and the actual devfsd code of > course.) one thing that HAS to happen is the fast that some devices CAN'T "appeare" until the devfsd says it can, unless we force a very restrictive permision on all devices (600 or something similar) otherwise we will have security wholes up the wazoo... don't forget about this... a devfsd daemon is definately the way to go... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 408 975 9651 Cu Networking "The soul contains in itself the event that shall presently befall it. The event is only the actualizing of its thought." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 16:16:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from laurasia.com.au (lauras.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.93.142]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D1014D05 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:16:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@laurasia.com.au) Received: (from mike@localhost) by laurasia.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA39977; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:16:19 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from mike) From: Michael Kennett Message-Id: <199909202316.HAA39977@laurasia.com.au> Subject: Re: keeping termcap up to date In-Reply-To: <199909201558.AAA07459@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> from Kazutaka YOKOTA at "Sep 21, 1999 00:58:37 am" To: yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (Kazutaka YOKOTA) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:16:19 +0800 (WST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I just wonder why don't we just import termcap database from > the master site: http://www.tuxedo.org/terminfo, rather than > maintaining our own copy? Minor correction: the URL is http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/terminfo. Mike Kennett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 16:36:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3992214EA9 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:36:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA90401; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:35:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , Chuck Robey , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: <19990920160107.33337@hydrogen.fircrest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Matthew N. Dodd scribbled this message on Sep 20: > > On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > But it was to the subject on the Subject: line, Julian. We know what side > > > you're on, but there are 2 sides to the argument. Isn't there some way > > > that it can be set up to *optionally* have permission persistence? > > > > Seems like a devfsd using the file monitoring hooks would work; you'd only > > update the persistent store if you were running devfsd. devfsd would read > > the store and init /dev with the contents. I think the only issue that > > would involve thinking would be whiteouts (and the actual devfsd code of > > course.) > > one thing that HAS to happen is the fast that some devices CAN'T "appeare" > until the devfsd says it can, unless we force a very restrictive permision > on all devices (600 or something similar) otherwise we will have security > wholes up the wazoo... don't forget about this... a devfsd daemon is > definately the way to go... While I sharply disagree, with your assertion, I also point out that if you make such a all-singing-all-dancing devfsd, then you might as well get rid of devfs entirely, and just have devfsd make the devices using normal mknod commands. > > -- > John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 408 975 9651 > Cu Networking > > "The soul contains in itself the event that shall presently befall it. > The event is only the actualizing of its thought." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 16:46:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt014nb6.san.rr.com (dt014nb6.san.rr.com [24.30.129.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A62514FC6 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:46:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by dt014nb6.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07693; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:46:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:46:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug X-Sender: doug@dt014nb6.san.rr.com To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: David Schwartz , Mike Smith , Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: Re: TSC vs. I8254 (Was: RE: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/conf files.i386 src/sys/i386/i386 mp_clock.c) In-Reply-To: <37E65B82.D60552D8@gorean.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Doug wrote: > I know that someone will be tempted to warn me about the evils of > overclocking, but please don't. :) However, just in case anyone is > interested either the overclocking or the overdrive chip seems to have > fried the on-board serial ports on this machine. I've been trying for > months to get a serial console on it, and couldn't figure out why all I > ever got was garbage no matter how many different configurations I tried. I should have mentioned (based on the private mail I've received) that one of the things I tried was resetting the bus speed to 30Mhz, and the serial console still didn't work. The new serial port card I got works with the bus set to 30 and to 33, so I'm doubly happy. Doug -- "My mama told me, my mama said, 'don't cry.' She said, 'you're too young a man to have as many women you got.' I looked at my mother dear and didn't even crack a smile. I said, 'If women kill me, I don't mind dyin!'" - John Belushi as "Joliet" Jake Blues, "I Don't Know" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 17: 6:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from srv4-bnu.bnu.zaz.com.br (srv4-bnu.bnu.nutecnet.com.br [200.247.224.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F57914FC6 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:06:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fatboy@linuxbr.com.br) Received: from jackson.zaz.com.br (ip-248-49-227.joi.zaz.com.br [200.248.49.227]) by srv4-bnu.bnu.zaz.com.br (8.8.5/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id VAA28920 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:06:16 -0300 (BRA) Message-ID: <002101bf03c5$974538c0$c800000a@jackson.zaz.com.br> From: "Jackson Donadel" To: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:09:35 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi ppl I new in this list, and have some questions about freebsd My Hard Disk had a small problem with bad blocks(have some thing about 200), in instalation i use the bad block scan. What this bad block scan do when say "%1 will be marked BAD" ? I can realy believe that freebsd will not use that blocks? My HD is a Quantum Pionner 2.1 Gb using in normal mode. I can start puting it in the air?, what kind of problems i´ll find? I do bad144 too router# bad144 -v /dev/wd0s1 cyl: 3960, tracks: 16, secs: 63, sec/cyl: 1008, start: 0, end: 3992436 bad block information at sector 3992562 in /dev/wd0s1: cartridge serial number: 1234(10) sn=15229, cn=15, tn=1, sn=46 sn=181461, cn=180, tn=0, sn=21 sn=182364, cn=180, tn=14, sn=42 sn=193144, cn=191, tn=9, sn=49 sn=197557, cn=195, tn=15, sn=52 sn=208209, cn=206, tn=8, sn=57 sn=209677, cn=208, tn=0, sn=13 sn=290649, cn=288, tn=5, sn=30 And others, others I will apreciate any help. Jackson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 17:18:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gizmo.internode.com.au (gizmo.internode.com.au [192.83.231.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9C215080 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:18:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@gizmo.internode.com.au) Received: (from newton@localhost) by gizmo.internode.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA35050; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:46:10 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from newton) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199909210016.JAA35050@gizmo.internode.com.au> Subject: Re: what is devfs? To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:46:10 +0930 (CST) Cc: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, winter@jurai.net, chuckr@mat.net, wayne@crb-web.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 20, 99 04:35:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > one thing that HAS to happen is the fast that some devices CAN'T "appeare" > > until the devfsd says it can, unless we force a very restrictive permision > > on all devices (600 or something similar) otherwise we will have security > > wholes up the wazoo... don't forget about this... a devfsd daemon is > > definately the way to go... > > While I sharply disagree, with your assertion, I also point out that if > you make such a all-singing-all-dancing devfsd, then you might as well get > rid of devfs entirely, and just have devfsd make the devices using normal > mknod commands. Hmm - rip out the whole devfs infrastructure and replace it with something which writes tuples of (operation, devname, major, minor) to a socket somewhere, where "operation" is "create", "delete", "online", "offline", etc. Why worry about the complexities of a vfs to handle /dev in the kernel when almost all of it can be done in userland? [ Heh. *now* there'll be some wailing and gnashing of teeth... :-) ] - mark ---- Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 17:27: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C2BB14D0B for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from semuta.feral.com (semuta [192.67.166.70]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05092; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:22:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:23:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Mark Newton Cc: Julian Elischer , gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, winter@jurai.net, chuckr@mat.net, wayne@crb-web.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: <199909210016.JAA35050@gizmo.internode.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hmm - rip out the whole devfs infrastructure and replace it with something > which writes tuples of (operation, devname, major, minor) to a socket > somewhere, where "operation" is "create", "delete", "online", "offline", > etc. Why worry about the complexities of a vfs to handle /dev in the > kernel when almost all of it can be done in userland? > > [ Heh. *now* there'll be some wailing and gnashing of teeth... :-) ] > "booting"? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 17:30:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from argus.tfs.net (host1-66.birch.net [216.212.1.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC821538C for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:29:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@argus.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by argus.tfs.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) id SAA04409; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:38:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199909202338.SAA04409@argus.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Wall Street Journal on Open source OS (9/10/99) In-Reply-To: from Garance A Drosihn at "Sep 12, 99 11:09:31 pm" To: drosih@rpi.edu (Garance A Drosihn) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:37:59 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: jbryant@tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #31: Thu Apr 8 10:40:17 CDT 1999 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > At 10:42 AM -0700 9/10/99, Sanjay Waghray wrote: > >Attached is an article from the Wall Street Journal Online Edition. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >September 10, 1999 > > > > Beyond Linux, Free Systems > > Do Their Bit to Build Web > > > > By LEE GOMES > > Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL > > Unless you got the "express prior written consent of Dow Jones", > as stated in the "Terms of Use" of their web site, it would be > much better to point people at: > - - - - > There's also a link to the online version at > http://freebsd.tesserae.com/ > - - - - > than to copy the entire article and mail it to everyone on this > mailing list. give him a break. unless of course you intend to arrest all of those people who have ever photocopied and distributed a newspaper article [gee, does that include you?]. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 17:47:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB7914CB4 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:47:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA93021; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:47:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Mark Newton Cc: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, winter@jurai.net, chuckr@mat.net, wayne@crb-web.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: <199909210016.JAA35050@gizmo.internode.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Mark Newton wrote: > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > > one thing that HAS to happen is the fast that some devices CAN'T "appeare" > > > until the devfsd says it can, unless we force a very restrictive permision > > > on all devices (600 or something similar) otherwise we will have security > > > wholes up the wazoo... don't forget about this... a devfsd daemon is > > > definately the way to go... > > > > While I sharply disagree, with your assertion, I also point out that if > > you make such a all-singing-all-dancing devfsd, then you might as well get > > rid of devfs entirely, and just have devfsd make the devices using normal > > mknod commands. > > Hmm - rip out the whole devfs infrastructure and replace it with something > which writes tuples of (operation, devname, major, minor) to a socket > somewhere, where "operation" is "create", "delete", "online", "offline", > etc. Why worry about the complexities of a vfs to handle /dev in the > kernel when almost all of it can be done in userland? > > [ Heh. *now* there'll be some wailing and gnashing of teeth... :-) ] It's always been the main valid alternative to devfs. From teh driver point-of-view it's identical. The make_dev() call that is presently in the drivers simply passes that information up through the socket rather than doing the work directly. The 'tupple' (not really, is it?) would be (name, major, minor, default owner, default perms, type) The daemon would look up the device name in a configuration database where it would find 'exceptions and deviations' as well as default behaviours. This actually solves a few problems that devfs has. It also lses some of the simplicity and reliability that devfs has.. With very little work we could implement both systems since the device interface would be identical. > > - mark > > ---- > Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) > Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) > Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 > "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 17:51: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B90C14D0B for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:50:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA93125; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:50:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Matthew Jacob Cc: Mark Newton , gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, winter@jurai.net, chuckr@mat.net, wayne@crb-web.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > > > Hmm - rip out the whole devfs infrastructure and replace it with something > > which writes tuples of (operation, devname, major, minor) to a socket > > somewhere, where "operation" is "create", "delete", "online", "offline", > > etc. Why worry about the complexities of a vfs to handle /dev in the > > kernel when almost all of it can be done in userland? > > > > [ Heh. *now* there'll be some wailing and gnashing of teeth... :-) ] > > > "booting"? you can make /dev on a small mfs that is automatically mounted, or you can rpepopulate /dev with know boot devices. You don't need /dev to mount root anyhow. In fact you don't need /dev to mount others either as the mount request passes in the device name which could be looked up directly assuming that poul's dev_t cache has the entries already. (result of make_dev()). > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 17:57: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gizmo.internode.com.au (gizmo.internode.com.au [192.83.231.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C532614E84 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:56:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@gizmo.internode.com.au) Received: (from newton@localhost) by gizmo.internode.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA35335; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:24:52 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from newton) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199909210054.KAA35335@gizmo.internode.com.au> Subject: Re: what is devfs? To: mjacob@feral.com Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:24:52 +0930 (CST) Cc: newton@internode.com.au, julian@whistle.com, gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, winter@jurai.net, chuckr@mat.net, wayne@crb-web.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Matthew Jacob" at Sep 20, 99 05:23:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Jacob wrote: > > Hmm - rip out the whole devfs infrastructure and replace it with something > > which writes tuples of (operation, devname, major, minor) to a socket > > somewhere, where "operation" is "create", "delete", "online", "offline", > > etc. Why worry about the complexities of a vfs to handle /dev in the > > kernel when almost all of it can be done in userland? > > > > [ Heh. *now* there'll be some wailing and gnashing of teeth... :-) ] > > "booting"? Not needed - The devfs registration stubs are called during driver initialization which happens at boot time anyway; When the devfsd starts up and reads messages from its socket, it'd get a queue of device instances. I'm envisaging something like /dev/log here; When syslog opens it at boot time, it gets all the log messages that have appeared during initialization. - mark ---- Mark Newton Email: newton@internode.com.au (W) Network Engineer Email: newton@atdot.dotat.org (H) Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk: +61-8-82232999 "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton" Mobile: +61-416-202-223 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 18: 8:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mg-20425427-42.ricochet.net (mg-20425427-42.ricochet.net [204.254.27.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFE514FE8 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:08:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by mg-20425427-42.ricochet.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id SAA16075; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990920180741.39841@hydrogen.fircrest.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:07:41 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Julian Elischer Cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , Chuck Robey , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? References: <19990920160107.33337@hydrogen.fircrest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Julian Elischer on Mon, Sep 20, 1999 at 04:35:47PM -0700 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer scribbled this message on Sep 20: > On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > one thing that HAS to happen is the fast that some devices CAN'T "appeare" > > until the devfsd says it can, unless we force a very restrictive permision > > on all devices (600 or something similar) otherwise we will have security > > wholes up the wazoo... don't forget about this... a devfsd daemon is > > definately the way to go... > > While I sharply disagree, with your assertion, what part exactly? are you saying that we should allow devices to appear that are insecure?? we have two possible ways of dealing with it: a) a daemon "lets" a device appear w/ certain permisions b) a device appears w/ 0600 root:wheel, and the daemon sets the device to proper owner/permissions any other way introduces the problem where you stick in a serial card that contains a sensitive serial console, and someone can "attach" to the device... or many other possible problems... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 408 975 9651 Cu Networking "The soul contains in itself the event that shall presently befall it. The event is only the actualizing of its thought." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 18: 9:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jumping-spider.aracnet.com (jumping-spider.aracnet.com [205.159.88.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0747115208 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:09:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beattie@aracnet.com) Received: from shell2.aracnet.com (IDENT:1728@shell2.aracnet.com [216.99.193.20]) by jumping-spider.aracnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12050; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:09:31 -0700 Received: from localhost by shell2.aracnet.com (8.8.7) id SAA20640; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:09:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: shell2.aracnet.com: beattie owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:09:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Beattie To: Julian Elischer Cc: John-Mark Gurney , "Matthew N. Dodd" , Chuck Robey , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > While I sharply disagree, with your assertion, I also point out that if > you make such a all-singing-all-dancing devfsd, then you might as well get > rid of devfs entirely, and just have devfsd make the devices using normal > mknod commands. > Since I did not follow the original discussion, maybe this idea has been discussed and discarded, but what about a "translucent" like deal. Basically yu would mount the devfs on top of an existing directrory or filesystem. The underlying contents would "show through" by some set of rules. One rule would be that if a device node existed in the devfs and the real fs, and the device node in the real fs was for the "fake/null whatever you want to call it device", the resulting device node would have the major/minor fron the devfs and the owner/group/permissions from the real fs underneath. Any change to the node would affect the real fs underneath. I could probably expand on this futher if anybody is interested. Brian Beattie | The only problem with beattie@aracnet.com | winning the rat race ... www.aracnet.com/~beattie | in the end you're still a rat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 18:24:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lion.butya.kz (butya-gw.butya.kz [194.87.112.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A6914DB6 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:24:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bp@butya.kz) Received: from bp-gw.butya.kz ([192.168.1.193] helo=butya.kz) by lion.butya.kz with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11TEd2-0004ny-00; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:21:57 +0700 Message-ID: <37E6DDDC.403569A5@butya.kz> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:22:36 +0700 From: Boris Popov Organization: @home X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [ru] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.3-RC i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Cc: Warner Losh , Matthew Dillon , Chuck Robey , Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Matthew N. Dodd" wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Warner Losh wrote: > > Yes. That's true. That's why the idea of devfsd is simple, but > > implementing it well enough for people to be happy with it is much > > much harder. > > I think a minimal feature set for the first rev would satisify 90% of > those wanting persistence no? ie just tracking permissions and owners for > everything, and restoring them to their previous state on startup. This > would require that devfsd be started fairly early. Adding a tunable > checkpoint interval would be fairly simple. Beyond that it would be a > matter of what specific features the 'power users' wanted. This simple > behavior would nearly exactly mimic the behavior of a normal filesystem > based /dev. Why not to create a simple 'devfs' device ? devfsd can sleep at polling it and devfs device itself can provide hooks in the kernel to register all important events and pass them to devfsd. -- Boris Popov http://www.butya.kz/~bp/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 18:33:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5264C152EA for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:33:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA98430; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:33:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id TAA22035; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909210133.TAA22035@harmony.village.org> To: Boris Popov Subject: Re: what is devfs? Cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , Matthew Dillon , Chuck Robey , Julian Elischer , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:22:36 +0700." <37E6DDDC.403569A5@butya.kz> References: <37E6DDDC.403569A5@butya.kz> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:33:11 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <37E6DDDC.403569A5@butya.kz> Boris Popov writes: : Why not to create a simple 'devfs' device ? devfsd can sleep at : polling it and devfs device itself can provide hooks in the kernel to : register all important events and pass them to devfsd. That is one option. However, a more general solution would benefit other applications as well. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 18:51:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D55153AA for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:51:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA16015; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:20:56 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:20:56 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Chad David Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: SCSI vs IDE with vinum Message-ID: <19990921112056.T55065@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Chad David on Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 11:46:18AM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Saturday, 21 August 1999 at 11:46:18 -0600, Chad David wrote: > I just setup vinum for the first time on a brand new server, > nd I am getting what I think are strange results in performance > tests with rawio. My SCSI drives seem to be much slower that my > IDE drives? > > wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xb0ffb0ff on isa > wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , LBA, DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 > wd0: 13783MB (28229040 sectors), 1757 cyls, 255 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > wdc0: unit 1 (wd1): , LBA, DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 > wd1: 13783MB (28229040 sectors), 1757 cyls, 255 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0xb0ffb0ff on isa > wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): , LBA, DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 > wd2: 13783MB (28229040 sectors), 1757 cyls, 255 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > wdc1: unit 1 (wd3): , LBA, DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16 > wd3: 13783MB (28229040 sectors), 1757 cyls, 255 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 3 lun 0 > da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-3 device > da0: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled > da0: 17501MB (35843670 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 2231C) > da1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 6 lun 0 > da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-3 device > da1: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled > da1: 17501MB (35843670 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 2231C) > > ########################################################################## > > As you can see there are four 14.4 Gig IBM IDE drives, and 2 > 18Gig IBM SCSI drives. > > My vinum config is: > > drive scsi1 device /dev/da0e > drive scsi2 device /dev/da1e > drive ide1 device /dev/wd2e > drive ide2 device /dev/wd3e You'd get better performance spreading your volume across two IDE controllers. Since you have a wd1 as well, you might consider swapping wd1 and wd3. > volume exporthome > plex org concat > sd length 0 drive scsi1 > sd length 0 drive scsi2 > > volume backup > plex org concat > sd length 0 drive ide1 > sd length 0 drive ide2 > > SCSI > # rawio -a -v 1 /dev/vinum/rexporthome > Test ID K/sec /sec %User %Sys %Total > RR anon 1774.1 110 0.1 0.7 0.7 16384 > SR anon 14482.7 884 0.1 5.3 5.4 16384 > RW anon 1573.7 98 0.1 0.6 0.6 16384 > SW anon 1981.8 121 0.0 0.7 0.8 16384 > > /dev/rda0 is one of the raw drives in exporthome.. > # rawio -a -v 1 /dev/rda0 > Test ID K/sec /sec %User %Sys %Total > RR anon 2241.3 138 0.1 0.5 0.6 16384 > SR anon 19115.9 1167 0.1 4.5 4.5 16384 > RW anon 959.1 60 0.0 0.2 0.3 16384 > SW anon 2608.7 159 0.0 0.6 0.6 16384 > > > IDE > # rawio -a -v 1 /dev/vinum/rbackup > Test ID K/sec /sec %User %Sys %Total > RR anon 1372.9 86 0.0 0.4 0.4 16384 > SR anon 28443.2 1736 0.4 7.5 7.8 16384 > RW anon 601.3 37 0.0 0.2 0.2 16384 > SW anon 12227.7 746 0.3 3.1 3.4 16384 > > /dev/rwd1 is just a stand alone IDE drive. > # rawio -a -v 1 /dev/rwd1 > Test ID K/sec /sec %User %Sys %Total > RR anon 1610.0 100 0.0 0.2 0.3 16384 > SR anon 28828.8 1760 0.4 3.3 3.7 16384 > RW anon 1218.5 76 0.1 0.2 0.2 16384 > SW anon 11628.1 710 0.0 1.5 1.5 16384 > > I could be wrong but shouldn't the SCSI system blow away the IDE system? Not necessarily. This is a common fallacy. But the performance figures you're getting there don't look very good. I wonder if the SCSI drives have some problem. On the other hand, the serial throughput on wd1 looks surprisingly high. > On a side note, can you enable softupdates on a vinum fs? Yes. Vinum is just a virtual disk. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 20 18:52:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A7A15B4C for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:52:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA95017; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:52:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer Reply-To: Julian Elischer To: Brian Beattie Cc: John-Mark Gurney , "Matthew N. Dodd" , Chuck Robey , Wayne Cuddy , FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: what is devfs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Brian Beattie wrote: > On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > > > > > While I sharply disagree, with your assertion, I also point out that if > > you make such a all-singing-all-dancing devfsd, then you might as well get > > rid of devfs entirely, and just have devfsd make the devices using normal > > mknod commands. > > > Since I did not follow the original discussion, maybe this idea has been > discussed and discarded, but what about a "translucent" like deal. > Basically yu would mount the devfs on top of an existing directrory or > filesystem. The underlying contents would "show through" by some set of > rules. One rule would be that if a device node existed in the devfs and > the real fs, and the device node in the real fs was for the "fake/null > whatever you want to call it device", the resulting device node would have > the major/minor fron the devfs and the owner/group/permissions from the > real fs underneath. Any change to the node would affect the real fs > underneath. I could probably expand on this futher if anybody is > interested. Basically this is my scheme. Using something like a 'union mount'. I expounded tis as a possibility a few years ago. It is about as close as I can get using a filesystem to do the work. A daemon can do these things easily but has other drawbacks. ----- the rules are: When mounted with option -layer.. Underlying files do not show through unless the upper one exists. Underlying files supply their ownership/perms but get the major/minor from the devfs layer. The underlying files would be empty regular files (i.e. just an inode). Devfs devices that have no underlying node get their default permissions. Chmod/chown operations create an empty underlying node (if it can, and if the perms change from the default) to hold that info. If mount option -nonew is used only items present at mount time are automatically reflected through. mknod can be used to create new ones but the major an minor will be taken from the devfs blueprint, If the device is not in the devfs the mknod fails. If mount option -empty is used then an empty devfs is mounted. All devices must be created as above. if mount option -clear is used (with -u) then the underlying nodes are all removed. (garbage collection). When the underlying nodes are removed, the upper node still keeps the existing permissions. The action of mv'ing a device doesn't change the name of the underlying node it's associated with.. (it remembers). (and the info) ------ to snapshot /dev's permissions and clean all junk underlying files.... mount -u -clear /dev