From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Mar 8 2:49:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from amalthea.salford.ac.uk (amalthea.salford.ac.uk [146.87.255.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7FEC814E0B for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 02:48:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from M.S.Powell@ais.salford.ac.uk) Received: (qmail 11438 invoked by alias); 8 Mar 1999 10:48:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 11432 invoked from network); 8 Mar 1999 10:48:32 -0000 Received: from plato.salford.ac.uk (146.87.255.76) by amalthea.salford.ac.uk with SMTP; 8 Mar 1999 10:48:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 33745 invoked by alias); 8 Mar 1999 10:48:28 -0000 Delivered-To: catchall-freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: (qmail 33727 invoked by uid 141); 8 Mar 1999 10:48:28 -0000 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:48:27 +0000 (GMT) From: Mark Powell To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: 3.1-R panic Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I need some help determining why a machine is panicing. Specifically, whether it's FreeBSD or the hardware that's causing it. I really want to bring in FreeBSD as the OS of choice to provide our core services, but this is really hurting my cause. When I first installed 3.1 on the machine (an Apricot Shogun), I left the box in a continuous loop doing "make world" for a couple of days. No problem. I assumed the hardware was good. It'd also been previously running NT 3.51 for well over 2 years. However, now it's running inn-2.2 (CNFS with mmapped files), the box keeps panicing (every day or so), with a page fault. It always does this at exactly the same place in the kernel. The gdb -k output is: ------ IdlePTD 2551808 initial pcb at 2134a4 panicstr: page fault panic messages: --- Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0xc fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf016f1af stack pointer = 0x10:0xf76bcf48 frame pointer = 0x10:0xf7781c38 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 2 (pagedaemon) interrupt mask = trap number = 12 panic: page fault syncing disks... 84 39 29 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 24 giving up dumping to dev 20401, offset 1277180 dump 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 --- #0 boot (howto=Cannot access memory at address 0x2c. ) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:285 285 dumppcb.pcb_cr3 = rcr3(); ----- The dmesg output: ----- Copyright (c) 1992-1999 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE #0: Mon Mar 1 17:27:17 GMT 1999 root@mimas.salford.ac.uk:/usr/src/sys/compile/INN Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz Timecounter "TSC" frequency 130669405 Hz CPU: Pentium/P54C (130.67-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping=5 Features=0x3bf real memory = 100663296 (98304K bytes) avail memory = 95133696 (92904K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xf0265000. Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.0 fxp0: rev 0x04 int a irq 11 on pci0.12.0 fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:a4:3a:f2 chip1: rev 0x05 on pci0.14.0 Probing for devices on PCI bus 1: chip3: rev 0x02 on pci1.0.0 dpt0: rev 0x02 int a irq 10 on pci1.15.0 dpt0: DPT PM3224A/9X-R W FW Rev. 07CH, 3 channels, 64 CCBs Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 on isa sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A atkbdc0 at 0x60-0x6f on motherboard atkbd0 irq 1 on isa fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa ppc0: SMC-like chipset (ECP/EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode ppc0: FIFO with 16/16/8 bytes threshold nlpt0: on ppbus 0 nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port ppi0: on ppbus 0 plip0: on ppbus 0 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface vga0 at 0x3b0-0x3df maddr 0xa0000 msize 131072 on isa Intel Pentium detected, installing workaround for F00F bug sa0 at dpt0 bus 0 target 2 lun 0 sa0: Removable Sequential Access SCSI-2 device da0 at dpt0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da0: Tagged Queueing Enabled da0: 4119MB (8436988 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 525C) da1 at dpt0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device da1: 20597MB (42183680 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 2625C) changing root device to da0s1a cd0 at dpt0 bus 0 target 5 lun 0 cd0: Removable CD-ROM SCSI-2 device cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present WARNING: / was not properly dismounted ffs_mountfs: superblock updated for soft updates ffs_mountfs: superblock updated for soft updates ----- The kernel config file: ----- machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" cpu "I686_CPU" ident INN maxusers 128 options "NMBCLUSTERS=8192" options INET options FFS options FFS_ROOT options "SOFTUPDATES" options "AUTO_EOI_1" options "COMPAT_43" options SCSI_REPORT_GEOMETRY options SCSI_DELAY=0 options UCONSOLE options FAILSAFE options "INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE" options DDB options DDB_UNATTENDED config kernel root on da0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller dpt0 options DPT_ALLOW_MEMIO controller scbus0 device da0 device sa0 device pass0 device cd0 device npx0 at isa? port IO_NPX irq 13 device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" flags 0x10 tty irq 4 device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 device sio2 at isa? disable port "IO_COM3" tty irq 5 device sio3 at isa? disable port "IO_COM4" tty irq 9 controller atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD tty device atkbd0 at isa? tty irq 1 device vga0 at isa? port ? conflicts device sc0 at isa? tty pseudo-device splash device fxp0 # Parallel port device ppc0 at isa? port? net irq 7 controller ppbus0 device nlpt0 at ppbus? device plip0 at ppbus? device ppi0 at ppbus? #controller vpo0 at ppbus? pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device speaker pseudo-device vn 1 pseudo-device snp 2 options KTRACE pseudo-device bpfilter 2 options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options "MD5" options "ICMP_BANDLIM" ----- Mark Powell - System Administrator (UNIX) - Clifford Whitworth Building A.I.S., University of Salford, Salford, Manchester, UK. Tel: +44 161 295 5936 Fax: +44 161 295 5888 www.pgp.com for PGP key M.S.Powell@ais.salfrd.ac.uk (spell salford correctly to reply to me) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Mar 8 8:56:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from smtp3.xs4all.nl (smtp3.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 359CA14CBF for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:56:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from schofiel@xs4all.nl) Received: from excelsior (enterprise.xs4all.nl [194.109.14.215]) by smtp3.xs4all.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA25405 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:56:00 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <36E40F2D.7495@xs4all.nl> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 17:55:57 +0000 From: Rob Schofield Organization: Kniggits X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free BSD Hardware list Subject: Pentium replacements Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anyone recommend a good replacement for a Pentium 100, going into a socket 5? Motherboard accepts jumper settings to accept a P133, so overdrives (etc.) may also be useful. Any suggestions welcome. Rob Schofield M.Sc. -- First mechanically-generated printout from the newly-constructed Babbage calculating engine produced from the inventor's original drawings: "File or command not found. Abort, Retry, Fail?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Mar 8 13:39:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from digdug.cisco.com (digdug.cisco.com [171.69.30.215]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5047014F76 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:38:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from johnchen@cisco.com) Received: from johnchen-laptop.cisco.com (dhcp-71-150-250.cisco.com [171.71.150.250]) by digdug.cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA02082 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:38:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903082138.NAA02082@digdug.cisco.com> X-Sender: johnchen@digdug.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 13:38:48 -0800 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org From: "John L. Chen" Subject: Driver for 3Com PCMCIA (Megahertz) card Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I finally couldn't live without FreeBSD on my laptop so I repartitioned and installed release 3.1 on my Toshiba 7010CT. Xf86 works great with the 540CDT display config choice. Only problem I have now is the NIC card driver. Anyone have a driver for the 3Com 3C589E (Megahertz) PCMCIA NIC card? The 3.1 release PCMCIA driver for older 3C589 PCMCIA cards doesn't seem to detect the new one. Cheers! -- John Chen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Mar 8 14:16:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D64281554F for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:16:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA07703; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:16:28 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:16:28 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: "John L. Chen" Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Driver for 3Com PCMCIA (Megahertz) card In-Reply-To: <199903082138.NAA02082@digdug.cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, John L. Chen wrote: # Hi, # # I finally couldn't live without FreeBSD on my laptop # so I repartitioned and installed release 3.1 on my # Toshiba 7010CT. Xf86 works great with the 540CDT # display config choice. Only problem I have now is # the NIC card driver. Anyone have a driver for the 3Com # 3C589E (Megahertz) PCMCIA NIC card? The 3.1 release # PCMCIA driver for older 3C589 PCMCIA cards doesn't # seem to detect the new one. Cheers! You need to add an entry for it in /etc/pccard.conf. Try grabbing a copy of src/etc/pccard.conf.sample from online CVS tree at www.freebsd.org and extracting the entry I added not too long ago. I'm typing this message from a laptop with one in it right now. :) I'm using the ep0 driver, since the probe code in the zp pukes on the new version string. I have half a fix for the zp driver but dropped the ball when I found out that the ep driver worked without any changes. # -- # John Chen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Mar 8 14:33:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B8014FE5 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:33:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id XAA12986 for freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:33:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 680F88840; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:26:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:26:28 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: Free BSD Hardware list Subject: Re: Pentium replacements Message-ID: <19990308232628.A84000@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Free BSD Hardware list References: <36E40F2D.7495@xs4all.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <36E40F2D.7495@xs4all.nl>; from Rob Schofield on Mon, Mar 08, 1999 at 05:55:57PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5120 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Rob Schofield: > Anyone recommend a good replacement for a Pentium 100, going into a > socket 5? Motherboard accepts jumper settings to accept a P133, so > overdrives (etc.) may also be useful. Does your motherboard support dual-power plane CPUs ? If yes, then, if you can find one, put an AMD K6 on it. It will definitely go faster. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Mar 8 16:50:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from rip.psg.com (rip.psg.com [147.28.0.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB44014F3D for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:50:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from randy@psg.com) Received: from localhost (350 bytes) by rip.psg.com via sendmail with P:stdio/R:inet_resolve/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:49:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #1 built 1998-Oct-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:49:56 -0800 (PST) From: Randy Bush MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: wavelan on 4.0? Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org am i correct that the pcmcia wavelan radio modems are not supported on 4.0-current (or 3.1)? randy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Mar 8 20:12:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from posgate.acis.com.au (posgate.acis.com.au [203.14.230.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0559014FD6; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:12:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au) Received: from bullseye.apana.org.au (uucp@localhost) by posgate.acis.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2/Debian/GNU) with UUCP id PAA10539; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:02:41 +1100 (EST) Received: from bullseye.apana.org.au (central.apana.org.au [203.9.107.245]) by bullseye.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA13480; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:59:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:57:20 +1100 (EDT) From: Andrew MacIntyre To: Mark Powell Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.1-R panic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Mark Powell wrote: > I need some help determining why a machine is panicing. Specifically, > whether it's FreeBSD or the hardware that's causing it. I really want to > bring in FreeBSD as the OS of choice to provide our core services, but > this is really hurting my cause. {...} I can't really help with your problem directly, however... I've noticed a few references to stability problems with 3.0R and to a much lesser extent 3.1R. The only way I can think of to isolate whether it is a hardware vs OS issue would be to install 2.2.8 (or even 2.2.7 if CDs are handy) which are known to be extremely stable and reliable. 2.2.7R has been nearly bulletproof for me. I note that the FreeBSD web page still lists both 2.2.8 _and_ 3.1 as "current" releases, from which I infer that there is still the odd rough edge in 3.x to be polished off. -- Andrew I MacIntyre "These thoughts are mine alone..." E-mail: andrew.macintyre@aba.gov.au (work) | Snail: PO Box 370 andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au (play) | Belconnen ACT 2616 Fido: Andrew MacIntyre, 3:620/243.18 | Australia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Mar 9 11:11:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.upg.sinn.ru (proxy.upg.sinn.ru [195.166.168.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ED9DC14DD1 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:11:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from saenara@usa.net) Received: by proxy.upg.sinn.ru with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.25 RI-0000000) for at Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:13:11 +0300 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:17:34 +0300 Message-ID: <01BE6A7A.A1CE2A70.saenara@usa.net> From: Saenara Reply-To: "saenara@usa.net" To: "'freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org'" Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: PCI modem Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:06:18 +0300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can you please explain what shall I do to setup PCI modem under FreeBSD 3.0. wbr, saenara. mailto:saenara@usa.net PGP#0x0D60E26F ICQ#13647173 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Mar 9 11:17:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420DC14E25 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:17:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from housley@frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net) Received: from frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net (frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.74.10]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06461; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:17:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net (housley@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA04559; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:17:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from housley@frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net) Message-ID: <36E573CB.F8067AEB@frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 14:17:31 -0500 From: "James E. Housley" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "saenara@usa.net" Cc: "'freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: PCI modem References: <01BE6A7A.A1CE2A70.saenara@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Saenara wrote: > > Can you please explain what shall I do to setup PCI modem under > FreeBSD 3.0. > If it is a "standard" PCI modem it is a WinModem and can only be used in WinDoze. It isn't a full modem, it only has the telephone interface on the card. The rest of the modem processing is done by a WinDoze VXD. Really need to know manufacture and model. -- James E. Housley PGP: 1024/03983B4D System Supply, Inc. 2C 3F 3A 0D A8 D8 C3 13 Pager: pagejim@notepage.com 7C F0 B5 BF 27 8B 92 FE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Mar 9 11:31:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@hub.freebsd.org Received: from jane.lfn.org (www.lfn.org [209.16.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 774B415096 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:31:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from caj@lfn.org) Received: (qmail 27823 invoked by uid 100); 9 Mar 1999 19:31:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:31:25 -0600 (CST) From: Craig Johnston To: freebsd-hardware@hub.freebsd.org Subject: recommended server power supply, misc Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm building a server for the local freenet that is going to need 99%+ uptime. Besides disks, I think power supplies are probably the most likely thing to go (maybe more than disks with a lot of the crappy pc hardware out there), so what do you guys running "big iron" that _has_ to be up like in the way of power supplies? This will be a dual PII system with a bunch of disks -- it's likely to get hot, so a case that performs well as far as managing heat will be good as well. Short of rack-mount, what do you folks favor? What's a good rack-mount case? I assume there are no problems with the current incarnation of the intel eexpress pro/100? The config is going to be: Tyan 1696dlua dual pentium II mobo , adaptec 7895 onboard 384 megs SDRAM 2 x PII 233 intel ee pro lots of disk (I like IBM and Seagate right now for reliability, comments?) We're actually moving from Solaris on Sparc because we've just gotten sick of the security issues. We just installed Sol 2.7 and buffer overflows that worked in 2.5 and were patched are still there. Unbelievable. thanks, Craig To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Mar 9 15:45:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.upg.sinn.ru (proxy.upg.sinn.ru [195.166.168.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BF65815087 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:44:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from saenara@usa.net) Received: by proxy.upg.sinn.ru with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.00.25 RI-0000000) for at Wed, 10 Mar 1999 02:46:28 +0300 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 02:51:31 +0300 Message-ID: <01BE6AA0.E71CF9A0.saenara@usa.net> From: Saenara Reply-To: "saenara@usa.net" To: "'James E. Housley'" Cc: "'freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: PCI modem Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 02:51:30 +0300 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----Original Message----- From: James E. Housley [SMTP:housley@frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net] :If it is a "standard" PCI modem it is a WinModem and can only be used in :WinDoze. It isn't a full modem, it only has the telephone interface on :the card. The rest of the modem processing is done by a WinDoze VXD. Is there any sense to support these stupid piece of hardware under FreeBSD and if there is where can i find more information? wbr, saenara. mailto:saenara@usa.net PGP#0x0D60E26F ICQ#13647173 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Mar 9 16:56: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3547615019; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:56:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id QAA28222; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:55:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA25874; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:55:39 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id RAA05504; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 17:55:37 -0700 Message-ID: <36E5C315.ACBDD93C@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 17:55:49 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "saenara@usa.net" Cc: "'freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org'" , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: PCI modem References: <01BE6A7A.A1CE2A70.saenara@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Saenara wrote: > > Can you please explain what shall I do to setup PCI modem under > FreeBSD 3.0. Break it up, encase it in cement, and throw it into the deepest ocean you can find? Most PCI modems are "WinModems" and are not supported under FreeBSD anything.anything. They are nasty little pieces of trash foisted on people who don't know better by hardware charlatans. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Mar 9 19:24: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@hub.freebsd.org Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD69714E3D for ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:24:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19670; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:23:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:23:49 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Craig Johnston Cc: freebsd-hardware@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: recommended server power supply, misc Message-ID: <19990309192349.L1249@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Craig Johnston on Tue, Mar 09, 1999 at 01:31:25PM -0600 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 09, 1999 at 01:31:25PM -0600, Craig Johnston wrote: > > This will be a dual PII system with a bunch of disks -- it's likely to > get hot, so a case that performs well as far as managing heat will be > good as well. Short of rack-mount, what do you folks favor? What's > a good rack-mount case? Silicon Rax makes some very nice cases. Options include redundant hot-swappable power supplies. > lots of disk (I like IBM and Seagate right now for reliability, comments?) You'll get no argument there from me. IBM Deskstar and Ultrastar drives are very nice. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Mostly Harmless mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 0:16:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from digdug.cisco.com (digdug.cisco.com [171.69.30.215]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19C914F37 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:16:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from johnchen@cisco.com) Received: from johnchen-laptop.cisco.com ([171.71.244.131]) by digdug.cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA16506; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:15:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903100815.AAA16506@digdug.cisco.com> X-Sender: johnchen@digdug.cisco.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:15:51 -0800 To: Steve Price From: "John L. Chen" Subject: Re: Driver for 3Com PCMCIA (Megahertz) card Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199903082138.NAA02082@digdug.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Steve, Thanks for the info. I config'd/recompiled the kernel with the pccard driver, make "/dev/card0" and "/dev/card1" devices, and got device not configured messages. After a bit of chat with some cisco locals, I discovered my laptop has a cardbus not a pcmcia interface. The pc cards are compatible, but the interface is via a cardbus pci bus bridge. This seems to apply to the Toshiba 8000 series as well. Well, luckily, the docking station in my 7010 has an fxp0 compatible built-in 10/100BT port. This will get me by for a while. Just need to carry around the docking station! :-) Know anyone with a cardbus driver? -- John At 04:16 PM 3/8/99 -0600, Steve Price wrote: >On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, John L. Chen wrote: > ># Hi, ># ># I finally couldn't live without FreeBSD on my laptop ># so I repartitioned and installed release 3.1 on my ># Toshiba 7010CT. Xf86 works great with the 540CDT ># display config choice. Only problem I have now is ># the NIC card driver. Anyone have a driver for the 3Com ># 3C589E (Megahertz) PCMCIA NIC card? The 3.1 release ># PCMCIA driver for older 3C589 PCMCIA cards doesn't ># seem to detect the new one. Cheers! > >You need to add an entry for it in /etc/pccard.conf. >Try grabbing a copy of src/etc/pccard.conf.sample from >online CVS tree at www.freebsd.org and extracting the >entry I added not too long ago. I'm typing this message >from a laptop with one in it right now. :) I'm using >the ep0 driver, since the probe code in the zp pukes >on the new version string. I have half a fix for the >zp driver but dropped the ball when I found out that the >ep driver worked without any changes. > ># -- ># John Chen > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 1:12:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE37514C92 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:11:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.196]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1B18; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:11:18 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon.ninth-circle.org [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA49674; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:11:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0006800009221765000002L052*@MHS> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:11:44 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: ANDREAS.KLEMM.AK@bayer-ag.de Subject: RE: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE: which fast ethernet card, which is ava Cc: "hardwareFreeBSD.ORG" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 04-Mar-99 ANDREAS.KLEMM.AK@bayer-ag.de wrote: > Please help, it burns. Could you please tell me, what Ethernet Card is > currently best supported by FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE ? > > But, which card can I buy ??? I wanted to have an Intel Etherexpress > Pro/100B, but when I look on intels webpage, they only have new cards with > 82558 and 82559 chipset ... Well, what rocks for FreeBSD 2.2.8, what is > available now ??? 3c90x if yer wanting to go 100 Mbit, or else 3c5x9 for 10 Mbit. We use these at work and they haven't failed us thus far. HTH, --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 8: 5:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from cannon.ma.ikos.com (cannon.ma.ikos.com [137.103.105.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F3A615327 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:05:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tich@cannon.ma.ikos.com) Received: from lonesome.ma.ikos.com (lonesome [137.103.105.44]) by cannon.ma.ikos.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13192 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:06:17 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Cownie Received: (from tich@localhost) by lonesome.ma.ikos.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20476 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:06:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:06:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903101606.LAA20476@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: PCI WinModem Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wes Peters wrote: >Most PCI modems are "WinModems" and are not supported under FreeBSD >anything.anything. They are nasty little pieces of trash foisted >on people who don't know better by hardware charlatans. In defence of PCI WinModem's, I just built a machine (Cyrix MII-300) put in a PCI WinModem which cost $20 after rebate, and it works just great under Win98 - downloaded some stuff at about 5.5KB/sec (~= 45000 bits/sec, 85% of the theoretical limit of 53000bits/sec). This is substantially faster than I get with my "real" modem under FreeBSD (maxes out at about 4.5KB/sec). Economically and technically, from my (admittedly meagre) experience I'd say WinModem's are a neat solution - if you only run Windows (like 95%+ of users). Don't knock it just because FreeBSD can't support it (yet). Richard Cownie (tich@ma.ikos.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 8:18:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from wolf.com (ns1.wolf.com [207.137.58.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D921532D for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:18:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@wolf.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by wolf.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA12238; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:17:58 -0800 Message-ID: <19990310081758.B12209@ns.wolf.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:17:58 -0800 From: dan@wolf.com To: Richard Cownie , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI WinModem References: <199903101606.LAA20476@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: <199903101606.LAA20476@lonesome.ma.ikos.com>; from Richard Cownie on Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 11:06:17AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Economically and technically, from my (admittedly meagre) experience > I'd say WinModem's are a neat solution - if you only run Windows > (like 95%+ of users). Don't knock it just because FreeBSD can't > support it (yet). Actually, I think the biggest gripe about winmodems is not that they require a MicroSloth OS to run (though that *definitely* bites!), but that the very idea of offloading basic peripheral functional processing from the peripheral (where these functions belong) to the host OS is a Very Bad Idea. Sure, they can function pretty well when you plug 'em into a WinBloze box, but that doesn't make a flawed concept any less flawed. That's about as logical as building in a security mechanism that the user can bypass by simply clicking the "Cancel" button. Of course no one would be so dumb as to do that... would they? Dan Mahoney dan@wolf.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 8:36:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from cannon.ma.ikos.com (cannon.ma.ikos.com [137.103.105.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C6014C58 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:36:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tich@cannon.ma.ikos.com) Received: from lonesome.ma.ikos.com (lonesome [137.103.105.44]) by cannon.ma.ikos.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13509; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:37:54 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Cownie Received: (from tich@localhost) by lonesome.ma.ikos.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20496; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:37:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:37:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903101637.LAA20496@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> To: dan@wolf.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, tich@ma.ikos.com Subject: Re: PCI WinModem Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >bites!), but that the very idea of offloading basic peripheral >functional processing from the peripheral (where these functions >belong) to the host OS is a Very Bad Idea. I don't understand this reasoning. A PCI WinModem is cheaper, probably more reliable (because there's less hardware to get broken), and apparently just as fast. A technical solution which is cheap, reliable, and fast seems like a Very Good Idea to me. Peripheral processing only "belongs" in the peripheral if there's some advantage to having it there (and for most people compatibility with FreeBSD/Linux doesn't win any points). The "optimal" division of functions between the peripheral and the host CPU is changing over time as we have more and more horsepower to burn in the CPU. Personally I respect the fact that the Windows world is willing to spend the time and effort to re-evaluate this tradeoff and build a modem that only costs $15-20 - there's plenty I don't like about Windows, but I admire the support for all varieties of ultra-cheap hardware. Richard Cownie (tich@ma.ikos.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 8:49:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 08AAA153E6 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:49:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 7922 invoked by uid 1001); 10 Mar 1999 16:49:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:49:20 -0500 (EST) From: Vince Vielhaber To: Richard Cownie Cc: dan@wolf.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI WinModem In-Reply-To: <199903101637.LAA20496@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Richard Cownie wrote: > The "optimal" division of functions between the peripheral and the host > CPU is changing over time as we have more and more horsepower to burn > in the CPU. Personally I respect the fact that the Windows world is > willing to spend the time and effort to re-evaluate this tradeoff and > build a modem that only costs $15-20 - there's plenty I don't like about > Windows, but I admire the support for all varieties of ultra-cheap > hardware. One of the biggest drawbacks to WinPeripherals is the lack of an open standard. Look at the new win printers. They're a lose if you don't run windows. The spec isn't open and everything has to be reverse engineered. That's the current method M$ is using to hold market share. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 8:54:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from wolf.com (ns1.wolf.com [207.137.58.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64F00151A8 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:54:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@wolf.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by wolf.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA12505; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:54:31 -0800 Message-ID: <19990310085431.C12209@ns.wolf.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:54:31 -0800 From: dan@wolf.com To: Richard Cownie , dan@wolf.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI WinModem References: <199903101637.LAA20496@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: <199903101637.LAA20496@lonesome.ma.ikos.com>; from Richard Cownie on Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 11:37:54AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I don't understand this reasoning. A PCI WinModem is cheaper, > probably more reliable (because there's less hardware to get broken), > and apparently just as fast. A technical solution which is cheap, > reliable, and fast seems like a Very Good Idea to me. Peripheral > processing only "belongs" in the peripheral if there's some advantage > to having it there (and for most people compatibility with FreeBSD/Linux > doesn't win any points). There are some major arguments with respect to OS design issues, but my biggest argument is this: modem design is a highly technical issue requiring a great deal of specialized knowledge, and running a modem properly requires a lot of control over low-level issues, including such concerns as processor availability. If you are sitting on a lightly-loaded machine that isn't doing anything else, maybe you can get decent performance out of a winmodem. What happens when you start running a serious number-crunching app that monopolizes the CPU? Does your connection just slow down, or does the machine drop your connection altogether? How much processing horsepower do we allow the modem driver to grab? How willing are you to allow your OS manufacturer to screw up your modem functions by horsing around with the OS internals? Sorry, maybe I've just been in the business too long, but to my way of thinking modem processing belongs in the modem, printer processing belongs in the printer, etc. Maybe it makes sense to some folks to let the OS do the work of peripheral processors just because you've got some CPU cycles available, but I don't grok it. Dan Mahoney dan@wolf.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 9: 7:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from cannon.ma.ikos.com (cannon.ma.ikos.com [137.103.105.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19553151AD for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:07:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tich@cannon.ma.ikos.com) Received: from lonesome.ma.ikos.com (lonesome [137.103.105.44]) by cannon.ma.ikos.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13872; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:08:07 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Cownie Received: (from tich@localhost) by lonesome.ma.ikos.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20518; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:08:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:08:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903101708.MAA20518@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> To: tich@ma.ikos.com, vev@michvhf.com Subject: Re: PCI WinModem Cc: dan@wolf.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Vince Vielhaber wrote: >One of the biggest drawbacks to WinPeripherals is the lack of an open >standard. Look at the new win printers. They're a lose if you don't >run windows. The spec isn't open and everything has to be reverse OK, so far the only substantive criticism of WinModems and WinPeripherals in general is that they only run with Windows. On the plus side these things tend to offer good performance at ultra-cheap prices. Obviously if you want to run FreeBSD you shouldn't buy stuff that only works with Windows - but let's be honest and recognize this as being a deficiency of FreeBSD, rather than slagging off Windows and WinModems. Richard Cownie (tich@ma.ikos.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 9:22:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from cannon.ma.ikos.com (cannon.ma.ikos.com [137.103.105.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1F91519A for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:22:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tich@cannon.ma.ikos.com) Received: from lonesome.ma.ikos.com (lonesome [137.103.105.44]) by cannon.ma.ikos.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14036; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:23:42 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Cownie Received: (from tich@localhost) by lonesome.ma.ikos.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20533; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:23:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:23:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903101723.MAA20533@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> To: dan@wolf.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: PCI WinModem's Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dan Mahoney wrote: >but my biggest argument is this: modem design is a highly technical >issue requiring a great deal of specialized knowledge, and running >a modem properly requires a lot of control over low-level issues, So you're saying it's difficult to make a WinModem driver that works well. But is it impossible ? Or have the WinModem people actually done their homework and made a good job of it ? I tend to believe they wouldn't be shipping 10's of millions of these things unless they worked pretty decently. If someone has hard evidence (rather than theoretical, theological, and aesthetic opinions) either way I'd be interested to hear it. Richard Cownie (tich@ma.ikos.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 9:40:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from jane.lfn.org (www.lfn.org [209.16.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8E8E515133 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:39:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from caj@lfn.org) Received: (qmail 16248 invoked by uid 100); 10 Mar 1999 17:39:30 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:39:30 -0600 (CST) From: Craig Johnston To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: not seeing hardware, subscribed Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Majordomo tells me I am subscribed but I am not seeing -hardware. I'm seeing other lists just fine. I'm not mangling mail on my end. Any clues? thx, Craig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 9:43:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898CB15128 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:43:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (jack@localhost) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA51159; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:43:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:43:02 -0500 (EST) From: jack To: Richard Cownie Cc: vev@michvhf.com, dan@wolf.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI WinModem In-Reply-To: <199903101708.MAA20518@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Today Richard Cownie wrote: > OK, so far the only substantive criticism of WinModems and WinPeripherals > in general is that they only run with Windows. On the plus side these > things tend to offer good performance at ultra-cheap prices. "Good performance" _only_ on a lightly loaded system. If your CPU is busy with other things it doesn't have the cycles available to service your partial modem or partial printer. Start a download and try to format a floppy at the same time. Unless they've done some rewriting of their code the download will fall apart even with a real modem. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc. Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 9:45:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from jane.lfn.org (jam.rfno.com [209.16.92.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 50D99151D9 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:44:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from caj@lfn.org) Received: (qmail 16332 invoked by uid 100); 10 Mar 1999 17:43:58 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:43:58 -0600 (CST) From: Craig Johnston To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: arg, seeing hardware Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Arg, just got a message from -hardware after I sent that last one off. There was definitely a period that I was not seeing stuff from hardware while I was subscribed however -- I didn't get my own email to the list, and didn't see anything to hardware for at least 24 hours. Is the mail for owner-freebsd-hardware read by a human? Thanks and sorry for the intrusion. Just thought something might be wrong someone wants to check on. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 10:50:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from pegasus.com (unknown [209.84.70.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1489215190 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:50:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard@pegasus.com) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id JAA26216; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:09:47 -1001 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:09:47 -1001 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199903101910.JAA26216@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: Richard Cownie "PCI WinModem's" (Mar 10, 12:23pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI WinModem's Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org } Dan Mahoney wrote: } >but my biggest argument is this: modem design is a highly technical } >issue requiring a great deal of specialized knowledge, and running } >a modem properly requires a lot of control over low-level issues, } } So you're saying it's difficult to make a WinModem driver that } works well. But is it impossible ? Or have the WinModem people } actually done their homework and made a good job of it ? I tend } to believe they wouldn't be shipping 10's of millions of these } things unless they worked pretty decently. If someone has hard } evidence (rather than theoretical, theological, and aesthetic } opinions) either way I'd be interested to hear it. Don't forget that many stripped-down Windows-specific devices don't lend themselves well to a multi-tasking environment. Also, there is a tradition in the freeware community of boycotting hardware with proprietary interfaces. I'm not certain that the winmodem fits that description, but it sounds like it might. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 10:52: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ECC6150B2 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:52:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA67684; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:45:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:45:16 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Richard Cownie Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI WinModem In-Reply-To: <199903101606.LAA20476@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Richard Cownie wrote: > Wes Peters wrote: > > >Most PCI modems are "WinModems" and are not supported under FreeBSD > >anything.anything. They are nasty little pieces of trash foisted > >on people who don't know better by hardware charlatans. > > In defence of PCI WinModem's, I just built a machine (Cyrix MII-300) > put in a PCI WinModem which cost $20 after rebate, and it works > just great under Win98 - downloaded some stuff at about 5.5KB/sec > (~= 45000 bits/sec, 85% of the theoretical limit of 53000bits/sec). > This is substantially faster than I get with my "real" modem under > FreeBSD (maxes out at about 4.5KB/sec). > > Economically and technically, from my (admittedly meagre) experience > I'd say WinModem's are a neat solution - if you only run Windows > (like 95%+ of users). Don't knock it just because FreeBSD can't > support it (yet). And FreeBSD isn't very likely to support it at all, because it's an incredible waste of computing power. You make it sound like being incredibly cheap is a virtue. The simple minded thing just offloads all the signal processing of a modem onto your processor, which means it can't do anything else useful while the modem's going. That isn't smart, that's idiotic, especially seeing as the price of *real* modems isn't all that high, comparatively speaking. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 11:26:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82CDE154D5 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:25:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darrylo@sr.hp.com) Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com (srmail.sr.hp.com [15.4.45.14]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id LAA07455 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:25:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA120163899; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:24:59 -0800 Received: from localhost (darrylo@mina.sr.hp.com [15.4.42.247]) by mina.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3 TIS 5.0) id LAA13771 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:24:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903101924.LAA13771@mina.sr.hp.com> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI WinModem Reply-To: Darryl Okahata In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:45:16 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.1.1.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:24:58 -0800 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chuck Robey wrote: > The simple minded thing just offloads all > the signal processing of a modem onto your processor, which means it > can't do anything else useful while the modem's going. That isn't > smart, that's idiotic, especially seeing as the price of *real* modems > isn't all that high, comparatively speaking. I'm wondering: is this really how winmodems work? I've always thought that this is how winmodems worked, but, after thinking about it, they don't have to work this way. The DSP could be done by a cheap IC (and often is, on non-winmodems, at least). That leaves the "com port/external modem emulation hardware", which could be completely dropped without affecting performance. In a non-winmodem modem, you've got a processor that handles I/O from the PC and the DSP -- something like: +------------+ +-----+ +-----------+ +----+ | phone line |-->| DSP |-->| processor |-->| PC | +------------+ +-----+ +-----------+ +----+ Now, for an internal modem, this processor is really superfluous. One of its functions is to handle the various "AT" commands, but using the PC for this is a fair trade-off for many people (as long as there's no possibility of data loss with heavy loads). I like offloading tasks from the CPU, and so I'd never buy a winmodem, but winmodems might be adequate for some people (iff the DSP functions were not done by the CPU). -- Darryl Okahata darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 11:27:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A92241548D for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:27:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garycor@home.com) Received: from galaxy.gary.net ([24.3.185.85]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with ESMTP id <19990310192657.DFIY23489.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@galaxy.gary.net>; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:26:57 -0800 Message-ID: <36E6C906.7620B804@home.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:33:26 -0500 From: "Gary T. Corcoran" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Robey Cc: Richard Cownie , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI WinModem X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Richard Cownie wrote: > > Economically and technically, from my (admittedly meagre) experience > > I'd say WinModem's are a neat solution - if you only run Windows > > (like 95%+ of users). Don't knock it just because FreeBSD can't > > support it (yet). > > And FreeBSD isn't very likely to support it at all, because it's an > incredible waste of computing power. You make it sound like being > incredibly cheap is a virtue. The simple minded thing just offloads > all > the signal processing of a modem onto your processor, which means it > can't do anything else useful while the modem's going. No, no. The *signal processing* is still done on a DSP on the modem card. It's the "everything else" (e.g. interpreting AT commands, poking the right modem registers at the right times, etc.) which is offloaded to the host, and that *doesn't* really take much CPU, especially in these days of 300, 400, 500 MHz CPUs. You gotta remember - what was unthinkable just a few years ago on yesteryear's CPU, is now often a "so what?". What you were thinking of is called a "soft modem", where *everything* (except the analog<->digital conversions which are in a small piece of hardware) is done on the CPU. Those require a delicate "balance" of CPU and OS activity... ;-) Gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 11:44:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from cannon.ma.ikos.com (cannon.ma.ikos.com [137.103.105.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD57615128 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:44:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tich@cannon.ma.ikos.com) Received: from lonesome.ma.ikos.com (lonesome [137.103.105.44]) by cannon.ma.ikos.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15656 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:45:19 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Cownie Received: (from tich@localhost) by lonesome.ma.ikos.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20584 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:45:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:45:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903101945.OAA20584@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: PC WinModem (my last comment) Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, I guess I kicked open a can of worms here, let me just answer the last two points and then I'll shut up and do some real work. Jack O'Neill wrote: >Start a download and try to format a floppy at the same time. >Unless they've done some rewriting of their code the download >will fall apart even with a real modem. .. which would mean that there are problems with Windows floppy formatting, but that a WinModem is no worse than a "real" modem in this respect. Chuck Robey wrote: >And FreeBSD isn't very likely to support it at all, because it's an >incredible waste of computing power. You make it sound like being >incredibly cheap is a virtue. The simple minded thing just offloads all >the signal processing of a modem onto your processor, which means it >can't do anything else useful while the modem's going. That isn't I do believe that being incredibly cheap is a virtue. If we can't agree on that then we inhabit different worlds and don't have much chance of agreeing on anything. As for the wastage of cpu cycles, my cpu doesn't have a meter that charges me per instruction executed. Most of the time it's doing nothing. According to the manual for my WinModem, it requires at least a Pentium 75MHz - I have a Cyrix MII PR300, which is probably at least 3 x faster than a Pentium 75MHz, so it's very likely that the modem uses only 30% of the cpu even when going flat out (there could be some context-switching effects, but this is a reasonable guess). Subjectively, the machine does not stop responding when the modem is running - indeed it doesn't seem noticeably slower. I believe that real people have put in a lot of hard work to make WinModem's that do the job and can be bought for $15-20. As an engineer I would like us to give them due credit and not describe their carefully-engineered products as "pieces of trash" without prsenting any evidence for this view. OK I'm done with this topic now. Richard Cownie (tich@ma.ikos.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 12:42:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from alice.gba.oz.au (gba-254.tmx.com.au [203.9.155.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E86F01523B for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:42:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gjb@acm.org) Received: (qmail 25604 invoked by uid 1001); 10 Mar 1999 20:22:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19990310202238.25603.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> X-Posted-By: GBA-Post 1.03 20-Sep-1998 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:22:37 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Richard Cownie Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI WinModem's References: <199903101723.MAA20533@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> In-reply-to: <199903101723.MAA20533@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> of Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:23:42 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I tend > to believe they wouldn't be shipping 10's of millions of these > things unless they worked pretty decently. If you believe that, then I've got an Operating System to sell you -- check out Win9x. -- Greg Black To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 12:42:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from alice.gba.oz.au (gba-254.tmx.com.au [203.9.155.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E05E015238 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:42:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gjb@acm.org) Received: (qmail 25662 invoked by uid 1001); 10 Mar 1999 20:28:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990310202829.25661.qmail@alice.gba.oz.au> X-Posted-By: GBA-Post 1.03 20-Sep-1998 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:28:28 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: ANDREAS.KLEMM.AK@bayer-ag.de, "hardwareFreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE: which fast ethernet card, which is ava References: In-reply-to: of Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:11:44 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Please help, it burns. Could you please tell me, what Ethernet Card is > > currently best supported by FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE ? > > > > But, which card can I buy ??? I wanted to have an Intel Etherexpress > > Pro/100B, but when I look on intels webpage, they only have new cards with > > 82558 and 82559 chipset ... Well, what rocks for FreeBSD 2.2.8, what is > > available now ??? > > 3c90x if yer wanting to go 100 Mbit, or else 3c5x9 for 10 Mbit. We use > these at work and they haven't failed us thus far. Not quite - the 3C900 and 3C900B are 10 Mbit. But they work fine with 2.2.8. -- Greg Black To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 14:54:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08CF515157 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:54:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA68169; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:51:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:51:14 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Richard Cownie Cc: vev@michvhf.com, dan@wolf.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI WinModem In-Reply-To: <199903101708.MAA20518@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Richard Cownie wrote: > Vince Vielhaber wrote: > >One of the biggest drawbacks to WinPeripherals is the lack of an open > >standard. Look at the new win printers. They're a lose if you don't > >run windows. The spec isn't open and everything has to be reverse > > OK, so far the only substantive criticism of WinModems and WinPeripherals > in general is that they only run with Windows. On the plus side these > things tend to offer good performance at ultra-cheap prices. How do you define good performance? They slow down your cpu doing stupid stuff that all other modems do *very* cheaply without bothering your cpu. You save a small amount of bucks and waste your system processing power, which is something I *would* pay more for. No, it's *not* attractive, unless you're trying to be ultra-cheap. That isn't to say that I disagree with the other reasons for avoiding Windows products (I certainly agree with them!) I think monpolists are extremely unethical, and Microsoft is a fine example of the worst possible business ethics in America. You may forward that to them if you want. > > Obviously if you want to run FreeBSD you shouldn't buy stuff that only > works with Windows - but let's be honest and recognize this as being > a deficiency of FreeBSD, rather than slagging off Windows and WinModems. > > Richard Cownie (tich@ma.ikos.com) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 15:11: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from cannon.ma.ikos.com (cannon.ma.ikos.com [137.103.105.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063A815058 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:10:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tich@cannon.ma.ikos.com) Received: from lonesome.ma.ikos.com (lonesome [137.103.105.44]) by cannon.ma.ikos.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17717; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:11:19 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Cownie Received: (from tich@localhost) by lonesome.ma.ikos.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20812; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:11:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:11:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903102311.SAA20812@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> To: chuckr@mat.net, tich@ma.ikos.com Subject: Re: PCI WinModem Cc: dan@wolf.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, vev@michvhf.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >How do you define good performance? They slow down your cpu doing I measured a download rate of 5.5KB/sec, which is a) 85% of the theoretical peak, and b) about 20% faster than the badnwidth I get using FreeBSD and a real modem (and a faster cpu). That's good performance. And I didn't notice any significant slowdown while this was running - if you really want to argue that WinModem's are evil because they slow down the system you'd better come up with some numbers to make it stick. Microsoft may or may not be bad, but the fact that they've built a system which allows me to do 5.5KB/sec transfers with a $20 modem doesn't seem bad to me. You can still buy a "real" modem for more money if that's what you want, but if you want to criticize WinModem's then please come up with some substantive and quantitative argument. Richard Cownie (tich@ma.ikos.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 15:20:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from crius.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C8714C80 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:20:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from amcl@flash.net) Received: from localhost (p89.amax12.dialup.dal1.flash.net [208.194.210.89]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA10456 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:19:51 -0600 (CST) Received: by localhost (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:24:49 -0600 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:24:49 -0600 From: Alan McLean To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI WinModem Message-ID: <19990310172449.A579@acm.org> References: <199903101708.MAA20518@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 05:51:14PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Richard Cownie wrote: > > > Obviously if you want to run FreeBSD you shouldn't buy stuff that only > > works with Windows Of course, but it is still a stupid idea to make hardware tied to one operating system. > > - but let's be honest and recognize this as being > > a deficiency of FreeBSD, rather than slagging off Windows and WinModems. BS, it is a monopoly plain and simple. I am not aware of *any* vendor releasing the necessary information to write a driver. How is that a deficiency of FreeBSD? And as others have already mentioned, winmodems are a brain-dead design in the extreme, pushing processing that is cheaply done in hardware onto the CPU tieing it to one operating system. -amcl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 15:48:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from umr.edu (hermes.cc.umr.edu [131.151.1.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55B114CAB for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:48:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bbryan@umr.edu) Received: from default (dialup-pkr-1-5.network.umr.edu [131.151.64.6]) via SMTP by hermes.cc.umr.edu (8.8.7/R.4.20) id RAA04404; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:47:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903102347.RAA04404@hermes.cc.umr.edu> From: "Ben Bryan" To: "chuckr@mat.net" , "tich@ma.ikos.com" Cc: "dan@wolf.com" , "freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG" , "vev@michvhf.com" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:48:39 -0600 Reply-To: "Ben Bryan" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Standard (2.01.1600) For Windows 95 (4.0.1212) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: PCI WinModem Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >I measured a download rate of 5.5KB/sec, which is a) 85% of the >theoretical peak, and b) about 20% faster than the badnwidth I get >using FreeBSD and a real modem (and a faster cpu). That's >good performance. Was this on the same phone line? Same jack? If not then the speed difference could come from the line quality. >And I didn't notice any significant slowdown while this was running - >if you really want to argue that WinModem's are evil because they >slow down the system you'd better come up with some numbers to >make it stick. Quick and easy demonstration under win9x: Load up any game that supports online play. First person shooters such as Quake (1 or 2), Unreal, Sin, etc. are the best to show it off, but stuff like Starcraft will do it as well. Dial up. Try to play the game online against other people. Notice that response time is horribly lagged. See your connection freeze up. Boom, there goes your link because the game sucked all the cpu that it could and didn't want to share with the silly little modem. Ben To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 15:49:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from laker.net (jet.laker.net [205.245.74.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DB2614C3B for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:48:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sfriedri@laker.net) Received: from nt (digital-fll-166.laker.net [205.245.75.66]) by laker.net (8.9.0/8.9.0-LAKERNET-We-do-not-relay) with SMTP id SAA16399; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:48:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199903102348.SAA16399@laker.net> From: "Steve Friedrich" To: "chuckr@mat.net" , "tich@ma.ikos.com" Cc: "dan@wolf.com" , "freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG" , "vev@michvhf.com" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:47:19 -0500 Reply-To: "Steve Friedrich" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows NT (4.0.1381;3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: PCI WinModem Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:11:18 -0500 (EST), Richard Cownie wrote: >if you want to >criticize WinModem's then please come up with some substantive >and quantitative argument. This list is for hardware issues in regards to FreeBSD. Please take this discussion off to private mail if you want to argue these points. Pretty please. P.S. Richard, since you appear to be such a proponent of this hardware design technique, who better to contact US Robotics (3Com) to get the specs and develop FreeBSD support. I doubt you'll get any technical info that will allow you to complete the task, but if you do, you'll get a really good education in engineering trade-offs during the course of the project. Keep us posted... Windows 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 15:57:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from persprog.com (persprog.com [204.215.255.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2CDF1516A for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:57:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dave@mmrd.com) Received: by persprog.com (8.7.5/4.10) id SAA16893; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:52:16 -0500 Received: from dave.ppi.com(192.2.2.6) by cerberus.ppi.com via smap (V1.3) id sma016885; Wed Mar 10 18:52:16 1999 Message-ID: <36E705BF.17CA68EA@mmrd.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:52:31 -0500 From: "David W. Alderman" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI WinModem References: <199903102311.SAA20812@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I really hate to chime in on this, but... There are different kinds of winmodems. Some use the CPU to handle user level commands (AT commands). Others also use the CPU to handle data compression and decompression. The cheapest also use the CPU for codec functions (along with hardware, of course). The command-only winmodems have a minimal impact on system performance since the command functions are not needed while a connection is actually in place. The two other types place a progressively greater load on the CPU all of the time they are in use. Unfortunately, it is difficult to tell which is which. There is also line conditioning and interface hardware that is often cheapened or omitted from winmodems. If your results are good - fine. Others have not been so lucky. One thing I have noticed about Windows 9x is that it cannot handle multiple ftp transfers if the serial baud rate is set higher than 57,600. Try ftp'ing over four files at once with your serial baud set to 115,200 and see what happens. I don't think FreeBSD (or Linux, for that matter) will have a problem with this. If 3Com or Rockwell or Lucent would make their Winmodem code available for use by the open software community, I suspect someone would write a driver for it. As far as I know, that has not happened. Attributing the economy of winmodems to Microsoft is misguided - Windows is the benificiary of cheap modems because of market share. It is certainly not easier to write drivers for Windows. If you like Winmodems, then thank the companies that bring them to you, or better still, the chip and firmware makers. Richard Cownie wrote: > >How do you define good performance? They slow down your cpu doing > > I measured a download rate of 5.5KB/sec, which is a) 85% of the > theoretical peak, and b) about 20% faster than the badnwidth I get > using FreeBSD and a real modem (and a faster cpu). That's > good performance. > > And I didn't notice any significant slowdown while this was running - > if you really want to argue that WinModem's are evil because they > slow down the system you'd better come up with some numbers to > make it stick. > > Microsoft may or may not be bad, but the fact that they've built > a system which allows me to do 5.5KB/sec transfers with a $20 > modem doesn't seem bad to me. You can still buy a "real" modem > for more money if that's what you want, but if you want to > criticize WinModem's then please come up with some substantive > and quantitative argument. > -- Dave Alderman - Democracy should not be capital intensive. Business: dave@persprog.com is changing to dave@mmrd.com Personal: dwa@atlantic.net -or- dwa@netcommander.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 17:26:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D6215190 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:26:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) id RAA31965; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:26:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:26:11 -0800 From: Matthew Hunt To: Richard Cownie Cc: dan@wolf.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI WinModem's Message-ID: <19990310172611.A25290@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <199903101723.MAA20533@lonesome.ma.ikos.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199903101723.MAA20533@lonesome.ma.ikos.com>; from Richard Cownie on Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 12:23:42PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 12:23:42PM -0500, Richard Cownie wrote: > So you're saying it's difficult to make a WinModem driver that > works well. But is it impossible ? Or have the WinModem people > actually done their homework and made a good job of it ? I tend There is a discussion in a local newsgroup at my former school regarding quality of dialup connections. It is starting to appear that the quality of connections (connection speed and spontaneous hangups) is worse for Winmodems than for regular modems. I wouldn't take this conclusion as gospel yet, but I also wouldn't reject it out of hand. (It's sort of amusing to see the Winmodem-using population whining about how crappy the dialups are, and the Unix population responding with "Huh? My connections are rock-solid.") Besides the issue of whether they are fundamentally broken even in Windows, there is the issue that the manufacturers do not publish information that would be necessary to support them in other operating systems, as far as I know. Calling the lack of support a "deficiency in FreeBSD" is hardly fair under the circumstances. -- Matthew Hunt * Science rules. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Mar 10 23: 5:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from ns0.lx.to (lx.to [160.124.193.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E8451510B for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:05:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@lx.to) Received: from iago (iago.lx.to [160.124.193.180]) by ns0.lx.to (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01459 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:07:36 +0200 Message-Id: <4.1.19990311090250.009729f0@lx.to> X-Sender: lists@lx.to X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:04:42 +0200 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: Lists Subject: Sync/570 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Would any one have any information or instructions on how to install the Digii / Arnet Sync570 on FreeBSD? Kind regards Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Mar 11 4:50:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from tandem.milestonerdl.com (main.milestonerdl.com [204.107.138.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E208715282 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 04:50:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marc@tandem.milestonerdl.com) Received: (from marc@localhost) by tandem.milestonerdl.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA03019; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:04:42 GMT Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:04:42 +0000 () From: Marc Rassbach To: Lists Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sync/570 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990311090250.009729f0@lx.to> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org *smile* I have one of thoes cards. The PCI version. And for me, it didn't work. (so here the card sits) On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Lists wrote: > Hello, > > Would any one have any information or instructions on how to install the > Digii / Arnet Sync570 on FreeBSD? > > Kind regards > Alex > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Mar 11 16:30:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id DE4FD15228; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:30:16 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: caj@lfn.org Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Craig Johnston on Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:43:58 -0600 (CST)) Subject: Re: arg, seeing hardware References: Message-Id: <19990312003016.DE4FD15228@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:30:16 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:43:58 -0600 (CST) > From: Craig Johnston > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG > X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Precedence: bulk > > Arg, just got a message from -hardware after I sent that last one off. > > There was definitely a period that I was not seeing stuff from > hardware while I was subscribed however -- I didn't get my own > email to the list, and didn't see anything to hardware for at > least 24 hours. > > Is the mail for owner-freebsd-hardware read by a human? nah....send questions to postmaster. too many mailers send bounces to the list owner...i cant wade through all that traffic jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Mar 11 19:11:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [209.157.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9E1715005; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:10:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billy@idiom.com) Received: from localhost (billy@localhost) by idiom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA09606; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:10:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:10:36 -0800 (PST) From: Billy Thompson To: hardware@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Hardware Question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is the system I'm thinking of getting. I've heard from on person who had a bad experience with Asus' on-board SCSI controller. I was wondering if any of you have had any problems with this mainboard or any of the other parts. I do intend to use the onboard controller unless there are problems with that. ASUS P2B-S w/Adaptec AIC 7890 & 3860 80MB/s UtraWide SCSI Controller Intel Celeron 400 Mhz 66Mhz/128K 128 MB SDRAM PC100, 16x64 Toshiba 32X IDE CDROM -billy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Mar 11 19:58:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (unknown [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCCF14C13; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:58:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23576; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:59:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:59:53 -0800 (PST) From: To: Billy Thompson Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, I've used the Asus P2L97-S (I think... the PII board that only goes up to 300) and it worked beautifully. I used both the UW port and the narrow, and had no problems, with a heavy amount of disk activity (heavily loaded web server). That was a 7880 based SCSI controller though, and I've never worked with a 7890 so far except on a Diamond Fireport 40 that gave me nothing but trouble. On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Billy Thompson wrote: > This is the system I'm thinking of getting. I've heard from on person who > had a bad experience with Asus' on-board SCSI controller. I was wondering > if any of you have had any problems with this mainboard or any of the > other parts. I do intend to use the onboard controller unless there are > problems with that. > > ASUS P2B-S w/Adaptec AIC 7890 & 3860 80MB/s UtraWide SCSI Controller > Intel Celeron 400 Mhz 66Mhz/128K > 128 MB SDRAM PC100, 16x64 > Toshiba 32X IDE CBDROM > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Mar 11 21: 1:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C699C14FF2; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 21:01:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id WAA29377; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:01:03 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199903120501.WAA29377@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Hardware Question In-Reply-To: from "unknown@riverstyx.net" at "Mar 11, 1999 7:59:53 pm" To: unknown@riverstyx.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:01:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: billy@idiom.com, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org unknown@riverstyx.net wrote... > Well, I've used the Asus P2L97-S (I think... the PII board that only goes > up to 300) and it worked beautifully. I used both the UW port and the > narrow, and had no problems, with a heavy amount of disk activity (heavily > loaded web server). That was a 7880 based SCSI controller though, and > I've never worked with a 7890 so far except on a Diamond Fireport 40 that > gave me nothing but trouble. Umm, the Diamond Fireport 40 has an NCR/Symbios/LSI 875 on board. The 7890 is an Adaptec chip. They're two completely different vendors, two completely different chips and two completely different drivers. > On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Billy Thompson wrote: > > > This is the system I'm thinking of getting. I've heard from on person who > > had a bad experience with Asus' on-board SCSI controller. I was wondering > > if any of you have had any problems with this mainboard or any of the > > other parts. I do intend to use the onboard controller unless there are > > problems with that. > > > > ASUS P2B-S w/Adaptec AIC 7890 & 3860 80MB/s UtraWide SCSI Controller > > Intel Celeron 400 Mhz 66Mhz/128K > > 128 MB SDRAM PC100, 16x64 > > Toshiba 32X IDE CBDROM The P2B-S should work okay. Justin (Gibbs, the guy who writes the Adaptec driver) has one. The 7890 is fully supported in FreeBSD 3.0 and 3.1. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Mar 12 5:21:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from gw-nl3.philips.com (gw-nl3.philips.com [192.68.44.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4575314D10 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 05:20:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl3.philips.com with ESMTP id OAA21074 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:20:19 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl3.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma021072; Fri, 12 Mar 99 14:20:20 +0100 Received: from hal.mpn.cp.philips.com (hal.mpn.cp.philips.com [130.139.64.195]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.8.5/8.6.10-1.2.2m-970826) with SMTP id OAA05740 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:20:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (qmail 59052 invoked by uid 666); 12 Mar 1999 13:20:34 -0000 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:20:33 +0100 From: Jos Backus To: Billy Thompson Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware Question Message-ID: <19990312142033.B13521@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Reply-To: Jos Backus References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Billy Thompson on Thu, Mar 11, 1999 at 07:10:36PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 11, 1999 at 07:10:36PM -0800, Billy Thompson wrote: > ASUS P2B-S w/Adaptec AIC 7890 & 3860 80MB/s UtraWide SCSI Controller I use this board at home in combination with -current, and it works like champ. The only problem I'm seeing is that CAM occasionally hangs the system in the device probe phase at boot time, necessitating a hardware reset. -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Mar 12 8: 2: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8310C1544A; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:01:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id JAA32107; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:01:03 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199903121601.JAA32107@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Hardware Question In-Reply-To: <19990312142033.B13521@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> from Jos Backus at "Mar 12, 1999 2:20:33 pm" To: Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:01:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: billy@idiom.com, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jos Backus wrote... > On Thu, Mar 11, 1999 at 07:10:36PM -0800, Billy Thompson wrote: > > ASUS P2B-S w/Adaptec AIC 7890 & 3860 80MB/s UtraWide SCSI Controller > > I use this board at home in combination with -current, and it works like > champ. The only problem I'm seeing is that CAM occasionally hangs the system > in the device probe phase at boot time, necessitating a hardware reset. Justin has been able to reproduce that problem, and is working on a fix. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Mar 12 8: 9:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mag.ik.nu (mail.smulweb.nl [194.158.187.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF699153F5 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:08:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from e@ik.nu) Received: (from edwinm@localhost) by mag.ik.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA12613 for hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:08:07 +0100 (CET) From: Edwin Mons Message-Id: <199903121608.RAA12613@mag.ik.nu> Subject: SCSI ZIP slow transfers To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:08:06 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi. I use FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE at home, and have a SCSI ZIP drive attached to an NCR-810 controller. When reading or writing DOS disks, I can read and write at 97 KB/s max. If the disk is a UFS ZIP, transfer speeds of 400 KB/s can be reached, but if I dd the raw data from either one of these two disks, speed is reduced to 97 KB/s again. After enabling CDB debugging for the ZIP drive I noticed that when accessing the UFS ZIP data is read in 64 KB blocks, while when reading raw data (with dd) or a DOS disk, the blocksize is 4KB. Can anybody explain this to me? I more or less expected to see the 4 KB blocksize when accessing the DOS partition (8 sector cluster layout), but I can't explain the 4 KB blocks for raw reads. Regards, Edwin Mons Edwin Mons | ...and the LART shall reign, and the e@ik.nu | daemons shall conquer the evil fortresses http://www.mons.net | of the beast of NT and their leagues of FreeBSD - the power to serve | management and MicroDrones... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Mar 12 9:19:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B949E14CAC for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:19:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id KAA32574; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:18:51 -0700 (MST) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199903121718.KAA32574@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: SCSI ZIP slow transfers In-Reply-To: <199903121608.RAA12613@mag.ik.nu> from Edwin Mons at "Mar 12, 1999 5: 8: 6 pm" To: e@ik.nu (Edwin Mons) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:18:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Edwin Mons wrote... > Hi. > > I use FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE at home, and have a SCSI ZIP drive attached > to an NCR-810 controller. When reading or writing DOS disks, I can read > and write at 97 KB/s max. If the disk is a UFS ZIP, transfer speeds of > 400 KB/s can be reached, but if I dd the raw data from either one of these > two disks, speed is reduced to 97 KB/s again. After enabling CDB debugging > for the ZIP drive I noticed that when accessing the UFS ZIP data is read > in 64 KB blocks, while when reading raw data (with dd) or a DOS disk, the > blocksize is 4KB. > > Can anybody explain this to me? I more or less expected to see the 4 KB > blocksize when accessing the DOS partition (8 sector cluster layout), but > I can't explain the 4 KB blocks for raw reads. What arguments did you use with dd? Did you specify 64k blocks when reading from the raw device? Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Mar 12 9:28:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mag.ik.nu (mail.smulweb.nl [194.158.187.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35C2B1534D for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:28:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from e@ik.nu) Received: (from edwinm@localhost) by mag.ik.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA13022; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:28:23 +0100 (CET) From: Edwin Mons Message-Id: <199903121728.SAA13022@mag.ik.nu> Subject: Re: SCSI ZIP slow transfers In-Reply-To: <199903121718.KAA32574@panzer.plutotech.com> from "Kenneth D. Merry" at "Mar 12, 99 10:18:51 am" To: ken@plutotech.com (Kenneth D. Merry) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:28:22 +0100 (CET) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Edwin Mons wrote... > > Hi. > > > > I use FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE at home, and have a SCSI ZIP drive attached > > to an NCR-810 controller. When reading or writing DOS disks, I can read > > and write at 97 KB/s max. If the disk is a UFS ZIP, transfer speeds of > > 400 KB/s can be reached, but if I dd the raw data from either one of these > > two disks, speed is reduced to 97 KB/s again. After enabling CDB debugging > > for the ZIP drive I noticed that when accessing the UFS ZIP data is read > > in 64 KB blocks, while when reading raw data (with dd) or a DOS disk, the > > blocksize is 4KB. > > > > Can anybody explain this to me? I more or less expected to see the 4 KB > > blocksize when accessing the DOS partition (8 sector cluster layout), but > > I can't explain the 4 KB blocks for raw reads. > > What arguments did you use with dd? Did you specify 64k blocks when > reading from the raw device? I used `dd if=/dev/rda0 of=/dev/null bs=64k` to read the disk. I'm not at my own system at the moment, so I can't give more details (/var/log/messages, exact rates, etc.). Regards, Edwin Mons Edwin Mons | ...and the LART shall reign, and the e@ik.nu | daemons shall conquer the evil fortresses http://www.mons.net | of the beast of NT and their leagues of FreeBSD - the power to serve | management and MicroDrones... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Mar 12 10:17: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from gw-nl3.philips.com (gw-nl3.philips.com [192.68.44.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1421538B for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:16:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl3.philips.com with ESMTP id TAA22554 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:16:29 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl3.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma022550; Fri, 12 Mar 99 19:16:29 +0100 Received: from hal.mpn.cp.philips.com (hal.mpn.cp.philips.com [130.139.64.195]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.8.5/8.6.10-1.2.2m-970826) with SMTP id TAA08637 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:16:28 +0100 (MET) Received: (qmail 60013 invoked by uid 666); 12 Mar 1999 18:16:50 -0000 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:16:50 +0100 From: Jos Backus To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hardware Question Message-ID: <19990312191650.A60005@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> Reply-To: Jos Backus References: <19990312142033.B13521@hal.mpn.cp.philips.com> <199903121601.JAA32107@panzer.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199903121601.JAA32107@panzer.plutotech.com>; from Kenneth D. Merry on Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 09:01:03AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 09:01:03AM -0700, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > Justin has been able to reproduce that problem, and is working on a fix. That's good news, thank you! Cheers, -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Mar 12 13:14:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from netsrv.internal.mandli.com (mail.mandli.com [156.46.168.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1563152B1 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:14:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrowan@mandli.com) Received: (from jrowan@localhost) by netsrv.internal.mandli.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id PAA04069 for hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:14:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:14:06 -0600 From: John Rowan Littell To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: LAN9000 ethernet device support Message-ID: <19990312151406.E3296@mandli.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I recently got my hands on single board computer that comes with a LAN91C96 ethernet interface (previously known as the SMC9000 series). While it seems that FreeBSD doesn't support this hardware directly, I was able to find driver software at the SMC web site. Sadly, the code is about three years out of date and written for 2.1-vintage systems. Naturally, it complains loudly on my 3.1R system. The code itself is derived fromn the Linux driver and was written by Gardner Buchanan, whose email address is also out of date. So, before I start hacking at this code to get it working with 3.1R, I was wondering if anyone else has maintained it or if there is updated contact info for Gardner. Thanks, --rowan -- John "Rowan" Littell "First you will know pain. Then you will know fear. Then you will die. Have a nice flight." -- G'kar, on "Babylon 5" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Mar 12 18:52:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from is2.net.ohio-state.edu (is2.net.ohio-state.edu [128.146.48.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D14DA1537F for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:52:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from maf@dev1.net.ohio-state.edu) Received: (qmail 19300 invoked from network); 13 Mar 1999 02:51:41 -0000 Received: from dev1.net.ohio-state.edu (128.146.222.3) by is2.net.ohio-state.edu with SMTP; 13 Mar 1999 02:51:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 25764 invoked by uid 4454); 13 Mar 1999 02:51:41 -0000 Message-ID: <19990312215141.A25501@net.ohio-state.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:51:41 -0500 From: Mark Fullmer To: Billy Thompson , hardware@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware Question References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91i In-Reply-To: ; from Billy Thompson on Thu, Mar 11, 1999 at 07:10:36PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > This is the system I'm thinking of getting. I've heard from on person who > had a bad experience with Asus' on-board SCSI controller. I was wondering > if any of you have had any problems with this mainboard or any of the > other parts. I do intend to use the onboard controller unless there are > problems with that. I've been running four of the P2BLS + PII 350's for about five months without any problems. If you're running the older 2.2-stable + CAM the AHC7890 PCI bus parity chipset bug workaround from -current will need to be applied. The diff is only a few lines. > ASUS P2B-S w/Adaptec AIC 7890 & 3860 80MB/s UtraWide SCSI Controller > Intel Celeron 400 Mhz 66Mhz/128K > 128 MB SDRAM PC100, 16x64 I'd recommend using ECC memory and enabling it in the BIOS. -- mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message