From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 27 15: 4:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B74F014A08 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 15:04:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA61454; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 09:34:26 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 09:34:26 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Eric Kozowski Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 36 GB IDE Hard Drives Message-ID: <19991228093426.G1316@freebie.lemis.com> References: <000801bf4db2$18798dc0$333c5d18@austin.rr.com> <19991224213939.A15752@schooner.svjava.com> <19991226102111.F1316@freebie.lemis.com> <19991225205540.A22423@schooner.svjava.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <19991225205540.A22423@schooner.svjava.com> WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 25 December 1999 at 20:55:40 -0800, Eric Kozowski wrote: > On Sun, Dec 26, 1999 at 10:21:11AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> I don't know how you can determine that this is the "same problem". > > s/same/similar/ That's a big difference. >> There are almost no details of what happened. The BIOS upgrade >> wouldn't make any difference, since FreeBSD doesn't use the BIOS. > > right, but the maxtor site says some of it's 36gb drives have problems > w/ older bios that cause formats to fail. > > http://www.maxtor.com/technology/infobulls/13027.html Sure, but that has nothing to do with FreeBSD. >> I'm currently investigating some reported problems in this area. >> Specifically, ufs file systems of 27.5 GB and up have been reported to >> fail to create file systems. On one occasion, newfs reported that the >> file system was read only. In another case, the newfs completed, but >> the system paniced writing to the file system. It would be nice to >> know what *really* happened to each of you. > > newfs croaked w/ the read only error. i tried using both the tools in > /stand/sysinstall and the equivalent cli commands. Are you using LBA? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 27 16:32:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from chain.freebsd.os.org.za (chain.freebsd.os.org.za [196.7.162.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A151A14EF0 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 16:32:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khetan@freebsd.os.org.za) Received: by chain.freebsd.os.org.za (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1D2E93562A; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 02:32:02 +0200 (SAST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chain.freebsd.os.org.za (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189A731915 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 02:32:02 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 02:32:02 +0200 (SAST) From: Khetan Gajjar To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Memory tester Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi. I suspect certain on-board system cache or memory problems with my primary FreeBSD server (the symptoms are random panics whenever memory-hungry processes run). Is there any software available which I can (preferably) test the system with under FreeBSD, or can anyone point me to a decent free-ware tester ? TIA. Khetan Gajjar. --- khetan@uunet.co.za * khetan@os.org.za * PGP Key, contact UUNET South Africa * FreeBSD enthusiast * details and other http://www.uunet.co.za/ * http://www.freebsd.org/ * information at System Administration * http://link.os.org.za/ * kg+details@os.org.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 27 17:39:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (antiochus-fe0.ultra.net [146.115.8.188]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 593AB15354; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 17:39:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from moncrg@ma.ultranet.com) Received: from ma.ultranet.com (209-122-231-206.s206.tnt4.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.231.206]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with ESMTP id UAA18500; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 20:39:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <386814CF.8F14D119@ma.ultranet.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 20:39:27 -0500 From: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" Reply-To: moncrg@ma.ultranet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions Cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: 3.4-S: if_rl & DFE-530TX+ can't map memory or ports Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Got a D-Link 10/100 Network in a box for x-mas and I can't get the NIC to be seen on my BSD desktop. I uncommented all the PCI NIC's and it appears to be recognized as a rl0. default 3.4-S source couln't map PIO ports in driver probe? [cvs diff -rRELENG_3 if_rl.c showed no diff lines after sup'n] Looked at the source and commented out the line #define RL_USEIOSPACE to try and force memory mapped io. That didn't go either. Rebooting to win95 and finding the install cd for all the old arp/ipx bits was able to handle the card and I could ping -f the desktop from my BSD laptop, so I guess the HW is ok. I guess I'm asking what I should try next? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 27 19:50:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles542.castles.com [208.214.165.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4050150F6 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:50:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00724; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:55:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912280355.TAA00724@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Khetan Gajjar Cc: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory tester In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Dec 1999 02:32:02 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:55:26 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hi. > > I suspect certain on-board system cache or memory problems with > my primary FreeBSD server (the symptoms are random panics whenever > memory-hungry processes run). Is there any software available > which I can (preferably) test the system with under FreeBSD, > or can anyone point me to a decent free-ware tester ? No such animal really exists, unfortunately. You can try testing just the memory, but it's quite possible that the problem is cache, chipset or power supply as well... -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Dec 27 23:25: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles542.castles.com [208.214.165.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E63E5153EF for ; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 23:25:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01543; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 23:29:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912280729.XAA01543@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: mjacob@feral.com Cc: Brandon DeYoung , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 36 GB IDE Hard Drives In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Dec 1999 18:40:22 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 23:29:48 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > See kern/15611- Wes Bauske has seen the very same thing... I have a 50GB > drive I'll try on Sunday... Looking at the audit trail on this, the evidence suggests that the 'wd' driver may have problems with operations beyond the 32GB mark, and that use of the LBA flag may be a viable workaround for this problem. This is probably worth tracking down, or at least verifying for errata purposes. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 28 0: 5: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB63815008; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 00:05:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03505; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 00:07:15 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 00:05:01 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Mike Smith Cc: Brandon DeYoung , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 36 GB IDE Hard Drives In-Reply-To: <199912280729.XAA01543@mass.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You're probably right, but as I verified that it works for me with the new ATA driver, I'm satisfied that the problem is at best second order. On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > See kern/15611- Wes Bauske has seen the very same thing... I have a 50GB > > drive I'll try on Sunday... > > Looking at the audit trail on this, the evidence suggests that the 'wd' > driver may have problems with operations beyond the 32GB mark, and that > use of the LBA flag may be a viable workaround for this problem. > > This is probably worth tracking down, or at least verifying for errata > purposes. > > -- > \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith > \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 28 12:23:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.243.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7444154F1 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:23:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26830 for freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:03:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:03:24 +0100 (CET) From: Oliver Fromme Message-Id: <199912282003.VAA26830@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? Organization: Administration TU Clausthal Reply-To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 RZTUC(3) PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Recently a machine of mine started producing strange problems: processes dying randomly, signal 11 most of the time, but some- times also signals 10, 8 or 4. No kernel messages, no panic or anything like that. Just processes randomly dying. The box contained an ECC DIMM, the RAM timings were set quite conservatively, the CPU was not overclocked. Everything was appropriately cooled. I finally put the DIMM into a different box, and the same sort of problems started appearing there. Using a different DIMM fixed everything. So the first DIMM was definitely broken. I had thought that ECC RAM would enable recognition of memory failures (in addition to automatically fixing simple one-bit errors). I thought that the chipset would cause a CPU trap or something like that if an unrecoverable RAM error occurs, so the OS could take some appropriate action (at least produce a log message). Am I wrong? It seems to just fail silently, possibly even continuing to use wrong data in calculations, just as if there was only non-ECC RAM. Is this a know problem, a bug, or do I just expect too much? Regards Oliver PS: These are the data of the two machines that I tried: 1 - Gigabyte 6BXD (intel 440BX chipset), FreeBSD 4.0-current of July 1999 (yes, I know, it's a bit old). 2 - MSI MS-6167 (AMD "irongate" K7 chipset), FreeBSD 3.4-stable of December 19th, 1999. And yes, ECC was enabled in the BIOS setup of both boxes. -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18/61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) "In jedem Stück Kohle wartet ein Diamant auf seine Geburt" (Terry Pratchett) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 28 12:31:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (mass.cdrom.com [204.216.28.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5041A15502 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:31:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01042 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:36:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912282036.MAA01042@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:03:24 +0100." <199912282003.VAA26830@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:36:01 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > = > I had thought that ECC RAM would enable recognition of memory > failures (in addition to automatically fixing simple one-bit > errors). I thought that the chipset would cause a CPU trap or > something like that if an unrecoverable RAM error occurs, so > the OS could take some appropriate action (at least produce > a log message). Am I wrong? It seems to just fail silently, > possibly even continuing to use wrong data in calculations, > just as if there was only non-ECC RAM. We don't, at this point in time, do anything with unrecoverable ECC = errors to the best of my knowledge. > Is this a know problem, a bug, or do I just expect too much? I guess it counts as a "known problem", yes. If you haven't thrown your = flaky DIMM out, it would be _very_ useful to someone that actually wants = to try to develop and test this sort of code. If nobody contacts you = directly, could you send it to me? FTL will hold onto it until someone = has a use for it. -- = \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 28 12:48:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.243.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2264215036 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27928 for freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:46:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:46:51 +0100 (CET) From: Oliver Fromme Message-Id: <199912282046.VAA27928@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? Organization: Administration TU Clausthal Reply-To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 RZTUC(3) PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote in list.freebsd-hardware: > We don't, at this point in time, do anything with unrecoverable ECC > errors to the best of my knowledge. I see. > > Is this a know problem, a bug, or do I just expect too much? > > I guess it counts as a "known problem", yes. If you haven't thrown your > flaky DIMM out, it would be _very_ useful to someone that actually wants > to try to develop and test this sort of code. If nobody contacts you > directly, could you send it to me? FTL will hold onto it until someone > has a use for it. Actually I intend to send it back to the reseller and (try to) get a free replacement DIMM. I'm sorry, but I need a new one, and I can't afford to buy a new one. Regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18/61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) "In jedem Stück Kohle wartet ein Diamant auf seine Geburt" (Terry Pratchett) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 28 15:56:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from www.webhighrise.com (www.webhighrise.com [207.126.117.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F3114CAE for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 15:56:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lance@costanzo.net) Received: from gw2k.costanzo.net (216-224-155-172.stk.jps.net [216.224.155.172]) by www.webhighrise.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA12716 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:01:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lance@costanzo.net) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19991228154805.006cc640@costanzo.net> X-Sender: lance@costanzo.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 15:48:12 -0800 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org From: Lance Costanzo Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:36 PM 12/28/1999 -0800, you wrote: >> I had thought that ECC RAM would enable recognition of memory >> failures (in addition to automatically fixing simple one-bit >> errors). I thought that the chipset would cause a CPU trap or >> something like that if an unrecoverable RAM error occurs, so >> the OS could take some appropriate action (at least produce >> a log message). Am I wrong? It seems to just fail silently, >> possibly even continuing to use wrong data in calculations, >> just as if there was only non-ECC RAM. >We don't, at this point in time, do anything with unrecoverable ECC >errors to the best of my knowledge. On HP 3000/9000 systems when a single bit errors occurs, the error is logged, the memory page is "scrubbed", and the memory page would be taken out of the pool if the scrubbing failed (hard single bit error). A double bit error causes an HPMC or LPMC (high/low priority machine check), and the system promptly halts. The older HP systems used proprietary memory, but many of the newer ones use 72pin ECC simms - I don't think there's anything special about them. An old PC (386) I used to have used 30-pin parity simms and would at least say "parity error" and crash. I guess the question is- Is not being able to log memory errors a problem with the PC hardware being inadequate, or feature missing from the operating system? Lance Costanzo http://www.webhighrise.com System Administrator Website and Virtual Domain Hosting lance@costanzo.net starting at $5/month, no setup fees To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 28 17:13: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (mass.cdrom.com [204.216.28.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1079B14C95 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:13:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04995; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:18:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912290118.RAA04995@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Lance Costanzo Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Dec 1999 15:48:12 PST." <3.0.32.19991228154805.006cc640@costanzo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:18:05 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I guess the question is- > Is not being able to log memory errors a problem with the PC hardware > being inadequate, or feature missing from the operating system? I'm fairly sure that most of the chipsets on the market at the moment that support ECC also support notifying the OS. We don't have any support for any of these (but would happily integrate it if someone were to come up with such a beast). -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 28 17:17:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from portnoy.lbl.gov (portnoy.lbl.gov [131.243.2.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D116514F5C for ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jin@portnoy.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov () id RAA04995; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:17:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:17:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199912290117.RAA04995@george.lbl.gov> To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, khetan@freebsd.os.org.za Subject: Re: Memory tester Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org khetan@freebsd.os.org.za stated: > Hi. > > I suspect certain on-board system cache or memory problems with > my primary FreeBSD server (the symptoms are random panics whenever > memory-hungry processes run). Is there any software available > which I can (preferably) test the system with under FreeBSD, > or can anyone point me to a decent free-ware tester ? cd /usr/src make world If this fails, normailly, it panics on a bad memory location. -Jin . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 28 18:54:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (antiochus-fe0.ultra.net [146.115.8.188]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C90315046; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 18:54:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from moncrg@ma.ultranet.com) Received: from ma.ultranet.com (207-172-245-165.s419.tnt1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.245.165]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with ESMTP id VAA18287; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:54:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <386977E6.6C48BBF4@ma.ultranet.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:54:30 -0500 From: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" Reply-To: moncrg@ma.ultranet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Solved: Was 3.4-S: if_rl & DFE-530TX+ can't map memory or ports References: <386814CF.8F14D119@ma.ultranet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Forgot to turn off PNP in the BIOS [don't know what that will do to Win95] rl0: rev 0x10 int a irq 11 on pci0.16.0 rl0: Ethernet address: 00:50:ba:d1:8b:ab rl0: autoneg complete, link status good (full-duplex, 100Mbps) rl0: promiscuous mode enabled For reference, the D-Link website has various articles that refer to a 540x that may allready be replacing the 530 in the Network in a box kits. The site also had a picture of a card that was caption "538" that looks like the 530TX+ that I have in terms of card size and layout... the rl and vr manpages may be dated.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 28 20:36:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.kdm.org (panzer.kdm.org [216.160.178.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF4951564E; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 20:36:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.kdm.org) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.kdm.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA94167; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:36:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ken) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:36:05 -0700 From: "Kenneth D. Merry" To: Mike Smith Cc: Lance Costanzo , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? Message-ID: <19991228213605.A94126@panzer.kdm.org> References: <3.0.32.19991228154805.006cc640@costanzo.net> <199912290118.RAA04995@mass.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <199912290118.RAA04995@mass.cdrom.com>; from msmith@FreeBSD.ORG on Tue, Dec 28, 1999 at 05:18:05PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 28, 1999 at 17:18:05 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > I guess the question is- > > Is not being able to log memory errors a problem with the PC hardware > > being inadequate, or feature missing from the operating system? > > I'm fairly sure that most of the chipsets on the market at the moment > that support ECC also support notifying the OS. We don't have any > support for any of these (but would happily integrate it if someone were > to come up with such a beast). I think Oliver's problem was that he was having memory trouble, but wasn't being notified about it. That is slightly different than notifying the OS about bad bits in memory that have been corrected with ECC. In general, with parity errors, I've seen NMI's with the "ram parity error" message, which triggers a panic. You would think that if the system sees a parity error that it can't correct with ECC (2-bit), it would generate the same sort of NMI that it generates for a standard parity error. FWIW, I generally run with parity detection turned on, but not ECC, since I've heard (i.e. I haven't looked in any Intel datasheets to verify this) that there may be a performance penalty for running with ECC turned on. You could probably verify the performance penalty by doing a dd test for memory bandwidth with ECC enabled and simple parity checking enabled. (e.g. "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=1m count=1024") Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@kdm.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Dec 28 20:58: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.kdm.org (panzer.kdm.org [216.160.178.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF2CC14F13; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 20:57:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@panzer.kdm.org) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.kdm.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA94316; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:57:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ken) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:57:56 -0700 From: "Kenneth D. Merry" To: Michael VanLoon Cc: Mike Smith , Lance Costanzo , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? Message-ID: <19991228215756.A94267@panzer.kdm.org> References: <8070C3A4E99ED211A63200105A19B99B317471@mail.edifecs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <8070C3A4E99ED211A63200105A19B99B317471@mail.edifecs.com>; from MichaelV@EDIFECS.COM on Tue, Dec 28, 1999 at 08:54:46PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 28, 1999 at 20:54:46 -0800, Michael VanLoon wrote: > From: Kenneth D. Merry [mailto:ken@kdm.org] > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 8:36 PM > > >FWIW, I generally run with parity detection turned on, but not ECC, since > >I've heard (i.e. I haven't looked in any Intel datasheets to verify this) > >that there may be a performance penalty for running with ECC turned on. > > > >You could probably verify the performance penalty by doing a dd test for > >memory bandwidth with ECC enabled and simple parity checking enabled. > >(e.g. "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=1m count=1024") > > There is a performance penalty, but it's very slight, especially if you have > decent cache (any modern processor (PII, PIII, Athlon) or a decent Super-7 > motherboard with a K6). > > Parity only detects one-bit errors. ECC can detect two-bit errors. You're > doing yourself a disservice by buying that more expensive memory, then not > really using it, especially on a server (where reliability is much more > important than a slight performance increase). I seriously doubt you could > determine the performance difference between having it on or off, except > with some sort of very specific benchmark. I've never had a memory problem (and I've had a number of memory problems) that wasn't detected with simple parity. Maybe I'm just lucky. If you have a slightly less modern processor (like a Pentium Pro), I think the performance loss can be around 10% or so. Unfortunately I'm not in a position at the moment to do the dd test above, so I can't say for sure, only what I remember. > And, does that hardly discernable performance loss make up for the time you > lose when your machine crashes, or you have to track down some malfunction > that is simply a flipped bit? I suppose I've never had a 2-bit error. Another way to look at it is that I'd rather be notified of memory problems, so that I can then turn on ECC to work around them, than have ECC silently work around the problem. If I had faster machines, and if we had some method of notifying the user when there are bad bits that get ECC corrected, I probably would run with ECC turned on. As it stands, though, you won't know about a 1-bit memory problem if you turn ECC on. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@kdm.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 9:37:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 102F21500D for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:37:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spud@i.am) Received: from Tomer.Home.Org (ras1-p111.hfa.netvision.net.il [62.0.145.111]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA18236 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:37:48 +0200 (IST) From: Tomer Weller To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: SB Live! (dont shoot me) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:38:53 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99122919393000.01098@Tomer.Home.Org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org anyone working on support for SB-Live! ? I'd be glad to be an alpha/beta tester. -- Tomer Weller wellers@netvision.net.il To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 9:44: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from daemon.best.ca (cr262311-a.lngly1.bc.wave.home.com [24.113.173.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7924E15130 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:44:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rfurda@best.ca) Received: from winblowz (winblowz [10.254.254.2]) by daemon.best.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 092F0D72C0; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:43:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991229094207.0095cef0@best.ca> X-Sender: riso@best.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:43:37 -0800 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org From: Richard Furda Subject: Re: SB Live! (dont shoot me) Cc: Tomer Weller In-Reply-To: <99122919393000.01098@Tomer.Home.Org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_81062461==_.ALT" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --=====================_81062461==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi, At 07:38 PM 12/29/99 +0200, you wrote: >anyone working on support for SB-Live! ? SB Live is already supported by a commercial vendor, Open Sound Systems. Please refer to: http://www.opensound.com/readme/README.SBLive.html for more info. Richard --=====================_81062461==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"                 Hi,

At 07:38 PM 12/29/99 +0200, you wrote:
anyone working on support for SB-Live! ?

SB Live is already supported by a commercial vendor, Open Sound Systems.
Please refer to: http://www.opensound.com/readme/README.SBLive.html
for more info.

        Richard
--=====================_81062461==_.ALT-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 9:48:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99FF214DE2 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:48:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spud@i.am) Received: from Tomer.Home.Org (ras1-p111.hfa.netvision.net.il [62.0.145.111]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA19598; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:48:18 +0200 (IST) From: Tomer Weller To: Richard Furda , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SB Live! (dont shoot me) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:48:11 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <4.2.0.58.19991229094207.0095cef0@best.ca> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991229094207.0095cef0@best.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99122919500001.01098@Tomer.Home.Org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org not yet in the FreeBSD version. On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, Richard Furda wrote: > > Hi, > > At 07:38 PM 12/29/99 +0200, you wrote: > >anyone working on support for SB-Live! ? > > SB Live is already supported by a commercial vendor, Open Sound Systems. > Please refer to: http://www.opensound.com/readme/README.SBLive.html > for more info. > > Richard > ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: text/html; name="unnamed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- -- Tomer Weller wellers@netvision.net.il To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 9:55:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from hera.webcom.com (hera.webcom.com [209.1.28.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BF0151F8; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:55:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from graeme@echidna.com) Received: from kigal.webcom.com (kigal.webcom.com [209.1.28.57]) by hera.webcom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA04423; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:55:15 -0800 Received: from [63.83.153.218] by inanna.webcom.com (WebCom SMTP 1.2.1) with SMTP id 46767286; Wed Dec 29 09:55 PST 1999 Message-Id: <386A4B9D.A9F89749@echidna.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 12:57:49 -0500 From: Graeme Tait X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: Michael VanLoon , Mike Smith , Lance Costanzo , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? References: <8070C3A4E99ED211A63200105A19B99B317471@mail.edifecs.com> <19991228215756.A94267@panzer.kdm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Some memory errors are transient, radiation-induced events. The likelihood of such errors is increased by the decreasing storage cell charge employed with increasing memory density. This problem will be more serious at high altitude because of increased cosmic radiation. As an extreme case, I believe that laptops used in orbit on the Space Shuttle crash of order once a day from radiation events. Such errors are not memory chip problems per se, and could be a good reason to enable ECC when available. "Kenneth D. Merry" wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 28, 1999 at 20:54:46 -0800, Michael VanLoon wrote: > > From: Kenneth D. Merry [mailto:ken@kdm.org] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 8:36 PM > > > > >FWIW, I generally run with parity detection turned on, but not ECC, since > > >I've heard (i.e. I haven't looked in any Intel datasheets to verify this) > > >that there may be a performance penalty for running with ECC turned on. > > > > > >You could probably verify the performance penalty by doing a dd test for > > >memory bandwidth with ECC enabled and simple parity checking enabled. > > >(e.g. "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=1m count=1024") > > > > There is a performance penalty, but it's very slight, especially if you have > > decent cache (any modern processor (PII, PIII, Athlon) or a decent Super-7 > > motherboard with a K6). > > > > Parity only detects one-bit errors. ECC can detect two-bit errors. You're > > doing yourself a disservice by buying that more expensive memory, then not > > really using it, especially on a server (where reliability is much more > > important than a slight performance increase). I seriously doubt you could > > determine the performance difference between having it on or off, except > > with some sort of very specific benchmark. > > I've never had a memory problem (and I've had a number of memory problems) > that wasn't detected with simple parity. Maybe I'm just lucky. > > If you have a slightly less modern processor (like a Pentium Pro), I think > the performance loss can be around 10% or so. Unfortunately I'm not in a > position at the moment to do the dd test above, so I can't say for sure, > only what I remember. > > > And, does that hardly discernable performance loss make up for the time you > > lose when your machine crashes, or you have to track down some malfunction > > that is simply a flipped bit? > > I suppose I've never had a 2-bit error. > > Another way to look at it is that I'd rather be notified of memory > problems, so that I can then turn on ECC to work around them, than have ECC > silently work around the problem. > > If I had faster machines, and if we had some method of notifying the user > when there are bad bits that get ECC corrected, I probably would run with > ECC turned on. As it stands, though, you won't know about a 1-bit memory > problem if you turn ECC on. > > Ken > -- > Kenneth Merry > ken@kdm.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 10:39:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from pinhead.parag.codegen.com (207-44-235-154.CodeGen.COM [207.44.235.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 978AF156C9; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:39:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from parag@pinhead.parag.codegen.com) Received: from pinhead.parag.codegen.com (parag@localhost.parag.codegen.com [127.0.0.1]) by pinhead.parag.codegen.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA59433; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:39:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from parag@pinhead.parag.codegen.com) To: Graeme Tait Cc: "Kenneth D. Merry" , Michael VanLoon , Mike Smith , Lance Costanzo , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message from Graeme Tait of "Wed, 29 Dec 1999 12:57:49 EST." <386A4B9D.A9F89749@echidna.com> X-Image-URL: http://www.codegen.com/images/CG-logo-only.gif X-URL: http://www.codegen.com X-Face: =O'Kj74icvU|oS*<7gS/8'\Pbpm}okVj*@UC!IgkmZQAO!W[|iBiMs*|)n*`X ]pW%m>Oz_mK^Gdazsr.Z0/JsFS1uF8gBVIoChGwOy{EK=<6g?aHE`[\S]C]T0Wm Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:39:02 -0800 Message-ID: <59429.946492742@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> From: Parag Patel Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 12:57:49 EST, Graeme Tait wrote: > >Some memory errors are transient, radiation-induced events. >[..] As an extreme case, I believe that >laptops used in orbit on the Space Shuttle crash of order once a day from >radiation events. [...] Just out of curiosity, how do they know that their laptops are crashing due to radiation events and not just Windows? -- Parag Patel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 12:50:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from eterna.binary.net (eterna.binary.net [12.13.84.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA8A91514D for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 12:50:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nathan@rtfm.net) Received: from matrix.binary.net (root@matrix.binary.net [12.13.120.2]) by eterna.binary.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA09485 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:50:33 -0600 (CST) Received: (from nathan@localhost) by matrix.binary.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA25236 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:50:25 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:50:25 -0500 From: Nathan Dorfman To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Tulip NIC found at boot, but interface doesn't exist Message-ID: <19991229155025.A24822@rtfm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am having the following problem with install disks from 3.4-RELEASE as well as today's (Dec. 29) snapshots of both -CURRENT and -STABLE. The NIC in the machine (an SMC card with a DEC 21140 Tulip) is detected and identified by the de0 driver at boot. However, after boot the interface does not exist. Sysinstall cannot find it to perform an FTP installation. Starting a holographic shell and running ifconfig -a shows that the de0 interface is indeed nonexistent. This is actually the second NIC I am trying; there was a PCI NE2K clone in the machine before that exhibited the same behavior. Anyone have any idea what could be causing a network card to be detected at boot but not show up as a network interface once the system is up? I need the kern.flp/mfsroot.flp floppies to recognize the nic in order to install the OS via FTP. Thanks in advance. P.S. - Please Cc: me if you reply as I am not on -hardware. -- Nathan Dorfman The statements and opinions in my Unix Admin @ Frontline Communications public posts are mine, not FCC's. "The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching train." --/usr/games/fortune To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 13:12:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [195.154.168.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 466D015102 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:12:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: (qmail 14291 invoked by uid 200); 29 Dec 1999 21:12:31 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 29 Dec 1999 21:12:31 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:12:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Didier Derny To: Richard Furda Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, Tomer Weller Subject: Re: SB Live! (dont shoot me) In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991229094207.0095cef0@best.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org there is no opendsound driver for sblive + freeBSD they told me yesterday that they were planning to port the sblive driver for linux to FreeBSD next year On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, Richard Furda wrote: > Hi, > > At 07:38 PM 12/29/99 +0200, you wrote: > >anyone working on support for SB-Live! ? > > SB Live is already supported by a commercial vendor, Open Sound Systems. > Please refer to: http://www.opensound.com/readme/README.SBLive.html > for more info. > > Richard > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 13:25:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D13156B8 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:25:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40322>; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:16:08 +1100 Content-return: prohibited Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:25:28 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-reply-to: <19991228215756.A94267@panzer.kdm.org>; from ken@kdm.org on Wed, Dec 29, 1999 at 03:57:56PM +1100 To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <99Dec30.081608est.40322@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <8070C3A4E99ED211A63200105A19B99B317471@mail.edifecs.com> <19991228215756.A94267@panzer.kdm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1999-Dec-29 15:57:56 +1100, "Kenneth D. Merry" wrote: > As it stands, though, you won't know about a 1-bit memory >problem if you turn ECC on. The i440LX (and presumably later and better controllers) records details of the latest ECC correction - at least to the extent of which DIMM it was. It can also be configured to detect, but not correct, single bit errors (which prevents a 3-bit error being silently converted into 4 invalid bits). I'm not sure whether it can trigger an interrupt on correction. It would be fairly easy to write a scrubber daemon that woke up (or was run from cron) regularly and read all of physical RAM (via /dev/mem). It could report any ECC corrections it caused (or that were present when it started). Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 13:38:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mrout1.yahoo.com (mrout1.yahoo.com [208.48.125.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6B121576D for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:38:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chiem@yahoo-inc.com) Received: from hootie.yahoo.com (hootie.yahoo.com [205.216.162.161]) by mrout1.yahoo.com (8.10.0.Beta10/8.10.0.Beta6/y.out) with ESMTP id dBTLcjb39826; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chiem@localhost) by hootie.yahoo.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id NAA14405; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:39:07 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Chiem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14442.32634.993964.91061@hootie.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:39:06 -0800 (PST) To: Didier Derny Cc: Richard Furda , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, Tomer Weller Subject: Re: SB Live! (dont shoot me) In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.19991229094207.0095cef0@best.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 21.1 (patch 3) "Acadia" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The sb live is detected by the opensound driver, but not yet supported. They're awaiting Mike Smith to translate two system calls for them. (queue_task() and mark_bh()) --k Didier Derny writes: > > there is no opendsound driver for sblive + freeBSD > > they told me yesterday that they were planning to port the sblive > driver for linux to FreeBSD next year > > On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, Richard Furda wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > At 07:38 PM 12/29/99 +0200, you wrote: > > >anyone working on support for SB-Live! ? > > > > SB Live is already supported by a commercial vendor, Open Sound Systems. > > Please refer to: http://www.opensound.com/readme/README.SBLive.html > > for more info. > > > > Richard > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 13:41:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (mass.cdrom.com [204.216.28.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 576FE1597D for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:41:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00737; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:46:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912292146.NAA00737@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Tomer Weller Cc: Richard Furda , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SB Live! (dont shoot me) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:48:11 +0200." <99122919500001.01098@Tomer.Home.Org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:46:21 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The OSS folks are working on this; I haven't helped them by being slow to answer their mail (sorry Dev!). As I understand it they're nearly there. > not yet in the FreeBSD version. > On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, Richard Furda wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > At 07:38 PM 12/29/99 +0200, you wrote: > > >anyone working on support for SB-Live! ? > > > > SB Live is already supported by a commercial vendor, Open Sound Systems. > > Please refer to: http://www.opensound.com/readme/README.SBLive.html > > for more info. > > > > Richard > > > > ---------------------------------------- > Content-Type: text/html; name="unnamed" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Description: > ---------------------------------------- > > -- > Tomer Weller > wellers@netvision.net.il > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 13:43:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from eterna.binary.net (eterna.binary.net [12.13.84.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 788E415725 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:43:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nathan@rtfm.net) Received: from matrix.binary.net (root@matrix.binary.net [12.13.120.2]) by eterna.binary.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA10647 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:43:44 -0600 (CST) Received: (from nathan@localhost) by matrix.binary.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA26721 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:43:36 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:43:36 -0500 From: Nathan Dorfman To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Tulip NIC found at boot, but interface doesn't exist Message-ID: <19991229164336.A26681@rtfm.net> References: <19991229155025.A24822@rtfm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <19991229155025.A24822@rtfm.net>; from Nathan Dorfman on Wed, Dec 29, 1999 at 03:50:25PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Argh. Sorry to waste everyone's time. The culprit was a lame BIOS option - 'Plug n Play OS'. Setting this to No makes everything work. Anyone up for a Y2K ``party'' on M$'s Redmond lawn? -- Nathan Dorfman The statements and opinions in my Unix Admin @ Frontline Communications public posts are mine, not FCC's. "The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching train." --/usr/games/fortune To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 15:18: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from pinhead.parag.codegen.com (207-44-235-154.CodeGen.COM [207.44.235.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084CF151B7; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:18:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from parag@pinhead.parag.codegen.com) Received: from pinhead.parag.codegen.com (parag@localhost.parag.codegen.com [127.0.0.1]) by pinhead.parag.codegen.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA60404; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:17:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from parag@pinhead.parag.codegen.com) To: Michael VanLoon Cc: Graeme Tait , "Kenneth D. Merry" , Mike Smith , Lance Costanzo , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message from Michael VanLoon of "Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:13:17 PST." <8070C3A4E99ED211A63200105A19B99B317473@mail.edifecs.com> X-Image-URL: http://www.codegen.com/images/CG-logo-only.gif X-URL: http://www.codegen.com X-Face: =O'Kj74icvU|oS*<7gS/8'\Pbpm}okVj*@UC!IgkmZQAO!W[|iBiMs*|)n*`X ]pW%m>Oz_mK^Gdazsr.Z0/JsFS1uF8gBVIoChGwOy{EK=<6g?aHE`[\S]C]T0Wm Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:17:55 -0800 Message-ID: <60400.946509475@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> From: Parag Patel Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:13:17 PST, Michael VanLoon wrote: >3) Who says they're running Win9x? They could be running (in order of >potential) WinNT, Linux, *BSD, some commercial Unix. Well, I remember hearing something about their using some Microsoft email product (Outlook perhaps?) for their email so I assumed they were running some flavor of Windows. Since they're using off-the-shelf laptops, I'd still like to know how they know it's radiation vs software, because it'd help to know (at the least) which laptops actually have ECC RAM, for instance, or perhaps which ones don't need fans for cooling. As I said, I'm just curious - no axe to grind either way. -- Parag Patel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 15:28: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from pinhead.parag.codegen.com (207-44-235-154.CodeGen.COM [207.44.235.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D4A15647; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:28:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from parag@pinhead.parag.codegen.com) Received: from pinhead.parag.codegen.com (parag@localhost.parag.codegen.com [127.0.0.1]) by pinhead.parag.codegen.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA60510; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:27:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from parag@pinhead.parag.codegen.com) To: Michael VanLoon , Graeme Tait , "Kenneth D. Merry" , Mike Smith , Lance Costanzo , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message from Parag Patel of "Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:17:55 PST." <60400.946509475@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> X-Image-URL: http://www.codegen.com/images/CG-logo-only.gif X-URL: http://www.codegen.com X-Face: =O'Kj74icvU|oS*<7gS/8'\Pbpm}okVj*@UC!IgkmZQAO!W[|iBiMs*|)n*`X ]pW%m>Oz_mK^Gdazsr.Z0/JsFS1uF8gBVIoChGwOy{EK=<6g?aHE`[\S]C]T0Wm Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:27:57 -0800 Message-ID: <60506.946510077@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> From: Parag Patel Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To answer my own question, I finally dug something up that hints at what NASA laptops have to go through: Scroll down to the "NASA Buys Off-the-Shelf for Outer Space" section. It looks like they have specially certified IBM Thinkpads, and the process is very thorough. Fascinating. -- Parag Patel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 15:32:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67A5F1514B; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:32:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA56378; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 00:32:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Parag Patel Cc: Michael VanLoon , Graeme Tait , "Kenneth D. Merry" , Mike Smith , Lance Costanzo , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:27:57 PST." <60506.946510077@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 00:32:02 +0100 Message-ID: <56376.946510322@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <60506.946510077@pinhead.parag.codegen.com>, Parag Patel writes: > >To answer my own question, I finally dug something up that hints at what >NASA laptops have to go through: > >It looks like they have specially certified IBM Thinkpads, and the >process is very thorough. It is probably the military version of the Thinkpads, I've seen them, they are quite a bit more heavy than their civilian counterparts. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 17:56:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (ns.mt.sri.com [206.127.79.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05A9714C2A; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:56:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA08651; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:56:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA21612; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:56:13 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:56:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199912300156.SAA21612@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Parag Patel , Michael VanLoon , Graeme Tait , "Kenneth D. Merry" , Mike Smith , Lance Costanzo , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <56376.946510322@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <60506.946510077@pinhead.parag.codegen.com> <56376.946510322@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >To answer my own question, I finally dug something up that hints at what > >NASA laptops have to go through: > > > >It looks like they have specially certified IBM Thinkpads, and the > >process is very thorough. > > It is probably the military version of the Thinkpads, I've seen them, > they are quite a bit more heavy than their civilian counterparts. To the best of my ability, IBM has no 'military' version. I speak for a bit of experience here, having been involved with 4 different military contracts involving the Army, Marines, and Navy using ThinkPads. We had roughly 400-600 of them actively in use at one time or the other, up to 1000 total units throughout the years, and IBM has no 'mil-spec' ThinkPad. The only laptop that is even close to mil-spec is made by Panasonic. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 18: 6:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from richard2.pil.net (richard2.pil.net [207.8.164.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C81E015123 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:06:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from up@3.am) Received: (qmail 24318 invoked by uid 1825); 30 Dec 1999 02:06:07 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 30 Dec 1999 02:06:07 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:06:07 -0500 (EST) From: X-Sender: up@richard2.pil.net To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <56376.946510322@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 30 Dec 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <60506.946510077@pinhead.parag.codegen.com>, Parag Patel writes: > > > >To answer my own question, I finally dug something up that hints at what > >NASA laptops have to go through: > > > >It looks like they have specially certified IBM Thinkpads, and the > >process is very thorough. > > It is probably the military version of the Thinkpads, I've seen them, > they are quite a bit more heavy than their civilian counterparts. OT: There used to be a mil-spec for portable computers. I remember lugging around a mil-spec XT clone that was also tempestized (EMI suppressed for security reasons) in the early 80s to trade shows for the manufacturer. The thing weighed over 30 lbs without the separate power supply. But you could check it as luggage. I imagine if the enclosure could keep EMI in, it could prolly keep EMP out... James Smallacombe PlantageNet, Inc. CEO and Janitor up@3.am http://3.am ========================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Dec 29 18:31:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DCF214E1D for ; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:31:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daemon@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from bigeye.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id DAA08397 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 03:31:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from daemon@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bigeye.rhein-neckar.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA46738 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 01:47:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from daemon) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? Date: 30 Dec 1999 01:47:36 +0100 Message-ID: <84ea38$1dk9$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> References: <8070C3A4E99ED211A63200105A19B99B317471@mail.edifecs.com> <19991228215756.A94267@panzer.kdm.org> <386A4B9D.A9F89749@echidna.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <386A4B9D.A9F89749@echidna.com>, > Some memory errors are transient, radiation-induced events. The > likelihood of such errors is increased by the decreasing storage > cell charge employed with increasing memory density. This problem > will be more serious at high altitude because of increased cosmic > radiation. [...] Such errors are not memory chip problems per se, > and could be a good reason to enable ECC when available. ISTR recall that c't magazine examined that question some time ago and came to the conclusion that radiation-induced errors are absurdly rare (one each ten years or so?) compared to rather more earthly problems. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 1: 5:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93D1314D0E; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 01:05:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA57851; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:04:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Cc: Parag Patel , Michael VanLoon , Graeme Tait , "Kenneth D. Merry" , Mike Smith , Lance Costanzo , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:56:13 MST." <199912300156.SAA21612@mt.sri.com> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:04:38 +0100 Message-ID: <57849.946544678@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199912300156.SAA21612@mt.sri.com>, Nate Williams writes: >> >To answer my own question, I finally dug something up that hints at what >> >NASA laptops have to go through: >> > >> >It looks like they have specially certified IBM Thinkpads, and the >> >process is very thorough. >> >> It is probably the military version of the Thinkpads, I've seen them, >> they are quite a bit more heavy than their civilian counterparts. > >To the best of my ability, IBM has no 'military' version. [...] I said military version, I didn't say mil-spec. >The only laptop that is even close to mil-spec is made by Panasonic. Anyone remember the "Grid Tempest" ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 1: 7:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from smtp6.xs4all.nl (smtp6.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8808414E1D for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 01:07:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from schofiel@xs4all.nl) Received: from webmail2.xs4all.nl (webmail2.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.32]) by smtp6.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10281 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:07:32 +0100 (CET) Received: by webmail2.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06170; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:07:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:07:32 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199912300907.KAA06170@webmail2.xs4all.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: webmail2.xs4all.nl: schofiel set sender to schofiel@xs4all.nl using -f From: Rob Schofield To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org References: <8070C3A4E99ED211A63200105A19B99B317471@mail.edifecs.com> <19991228215756.A94267@panzer.kdm.org> <99Dec30.081608est.40322@border.alcanet.com.au> In-Reply-To: <99Dec30.081608est.40322@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.0-xs4all Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoting Peter Jeremy : > On 1999-Dec-29 15:57:56 +1100, "Kenneth D. Merry" wrote: > > As it stands, though, you won't know about a 1-bit memory > >problem if you turn ECC on. > [...] > > It would be fairly easy to write a scrubber daemon that woke up (or > was run from cron) regularly and read all of physical RAM (via > /dev/mem). It could report any ECC corrections it caused (or that > were present when it started). The SCO Unix I am using on my multi-processor DEC has an ECC daemon running to carry this out, almost exactly as you describe; I think it can correct one bit errors. Rob Schofield To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 7:44:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (ns.mt.sri.com [206.127.79.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE34151E4; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:44:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA15164; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:44:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA24237; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:44:13 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:44:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199912301544.IAA24237@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), Parag Patel , Michael VanLoon , Graeme Tait , "Kenneth D. Merry" , Mike Smith , Lance Costanzo , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <57849.946544678@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <199912300156.SAA21612@mt.sri.com> <57849.946544678@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> >To answer my own question, I finally dug something up that hints at what > >> >NASA laptops have to go through: > >> > > >> >It looks like they have specially certified IBM Thinkpads, and the > >> >process is very thorough. > >> > >> It is probably the military version of the Thinkpads, I've seen them, > >> they are quite a bit more heavy than their civilian counterparts. > > > >To the best of my ability, IBM has no 'military' version. [...] > > I said military version, I didn't say mil-spec. It goes without saying that to be a military version, it must also be mil-spec. > >The only laptop that is even close to mil-spec is made by Panasonic. > > Anyone remember the "Grid Tempest" ? I don't consider it a laptop, and it pre-dates the Thinkpads. We (SRI) owned one of the original thinkpads made (it's sitting around here somewhere), which was bought in preperation for a military contract. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 7:48: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B554815334; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:47:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA59551; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:47:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Cc: Parag Patel , Michael VanLoon , Graeme Tait , "Kenneth D. Merry" , Mike Smith , Lance Costanzo , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:44:13 MST." <199912301544.IAA24237@mt.sri.com> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:47:05 +0100 Message-ID: <59549.946568825@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199912301544.IAA24237@mt.sri.com>, Nate Williams writes: >> I said military version, I didn't say mil-spec. > >It goes without saying that to be a military version, it must also be >mil-spec. Fortunately for Danish tax-payers our government doesn't work that way :-) >> >The only laptop that is even close to mil-spec is made by Panasonic. >> >> Anyone remember the "Grid Tempest" ? > >I don't consider it a laptop, and it pre-dates the Thinkpads. We (SRI) >owned one of the original thinkpads made (it's sitting around here >somewhere), which was bought in preperation for a military contract. Why wouldn't the tempest be a laptop ? It most surely were on. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their lap top." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 7:50:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (ns.mt.sri.com [206.127.79.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A42815319 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:50:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA15229; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:50:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA24298; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:50:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:50:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199912301550.IAA24298@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <59549.946568825@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <199912301544.IAA24237@mt.sri.com> <59549.946568825@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> I said military version, I didn't say mil-spec. > > > >It goes without saying that to be a military version, it must also be > >mil-spec. > > Fortunately for Danish tax-payers our government doesn't work that way :-) Then why was it heavier than the standard version? Otherwise, they could have used the 'stock' versions (which we ended up doing, but then we added titanium outer cases custom made for SRI to make them more rugged). > >> >The only laptop that is even close to mil-spec is made by Panasonic. > >> > >> Anyone remember the "Grid Tempest" ? > > > >I don't consider it a laptop, and it pre-dates the Thinkpads. We (SRI) > >owned one of the original thinkpads made (it's sitting around here > >somewhere), which was bought in preperation for a military contract. > > Why wouldn't the tempest be a laptop ? It most surely were on. I was being sarcastic. 'Laptop' implies something you can stick on your lap. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 7:54:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B4714D90 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:54:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA59600; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:54:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:50:37 MST." <199912301550.IAA24298@mt.sri.com> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:54:13 +0100 Message-ID: <59598.946569253@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199912301550.IAA24298@mt.sri.com>, Nate Williams writes: >> >> I said military version, I didn't say mil-spec. >> > >> >It goes without saying that to be a military version, it must also be >> >mil-spec. >> >> Fortunately for Danish tax-payers our government doesn't work that way :-) > >Then why was it heavier than the standard version? Otherwise, they >could have used the 'stock' versions (which we ended up doing, but then >we added titanium outer cases custom made for SRI to make them more >rugged). Well, Danish Millitary bought the ruggedized military version from IBM and saved themselves all that trouble :-) >> >> Anyone remember the "Grid Tempest" ? >> > >> >I don't consider it a laptop, and it pre-dates the Thinkpads. We (SRI) >> >owned one of the original thinkpads made (it's sitting around here >> >somewhere), which was bought in preperation for a military contract. >> >> Why wouldn't the tempest be a laptop ? It most surely were on. > >I was being sarcastic. 'Laptop' implies something you can stick on your >lap. We're not talking about the same computer then. The GRiD i lugged around was a normal laptop, although a little heavier and larger than by todays standard. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 7:56:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mail-smtp.socket.net (mail-smtp.socket.net [216.106.1.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB9C214C95 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:56:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vaevictus@socket.net) Received: from socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.1.7]) by mail-smtp.socket.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA28501 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:37:55 -0600 Received: from nathanm.office.socket.net ([216.106.0.22]) by socket.net ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:32:29 -0600 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:55:24 -0600 (CST) From: Nathan Mahon X-Sender: vaevictus@nathanm.office.socket.net To: Nate Williams Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199912301550.IAA24298@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Aren't we talking about laptops for astronauts? they're going to be used in zero-gravity right? so what does it matter what they weigh? n8 On Thu, 30 Dec 1999, Nate Williams wrote: > > >> I said military version, I didn't say mil-spec. > > > > > >It goes without saying that to be a military version, it must also be > > >mil-spec. > > > > Fortunately for Danish tax-payers our government doesn't work that way :-) > > Then why was it heavier than the standard version? Otherwise, they > could have used the 'stock' versions (which we ended up doing, but then > we added titanium outer cases custom made for SRI to make them more > rugged). > > > >> >The only laptop that is even close to mil-spec is made by Panasonic. > > >> > > >> Anyone remember the "Grid Tempest" ? > > > > > >I don't consider it a laptop, and it pre-dates the Thinkpads. We (SRI) > > >owned one of the original thinkpads made (it's sitting around here > > >somewhere), which was bought in preperation for a military contract. > > > > Why wouldn't the tempest be a laptop ? It most surely were on. > > I was being sarcastic. 'Laptop' implies something you can stick on your > lap. > > > Nate > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 8: 1:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (ns.mt.sri.com [206.127.79.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADED114C95 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:01:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA15339; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:01:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA24404; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:01:24 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:01:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199912301601.JAA24404@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <59598.946569253@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <199912301550.IAA24298@mt.sri.com> <59598.946569253@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> >> I said military version, I didn't say mil-spec. > >> > > >> >It goes without saying that to be a military version, it must also be > >> >mil-spec. > >> > >> Fortunately for Danish tax-payers our government doesn't work that way :-) > > > >Then why was it heavier than the standard version? Otherwise, they > >could have used the 'stock' versions (which we ended up doing, but then > >we added titanium outer cases custom made for SRI to make them more > >rugged). > > Well, Danish Millitary bought the ruggedized military version from IBM > and saved themselves all that trouble :-) Like I said before, IBM has no 'ruggedized' version of the Thinkpad, and we looked into it. IBM told us we had to build our own. I've got lots of stories w/regards to that, including a number of 'ruggedized' boxes that were sent back with hardware problems due to soldiers breaking them intentionally by dumping sand i nthem. IBM 'fixed' the boxes by replacing the innards, and then removing our old cases and using stock cases on them. We had to put holes in the cases for wiring up external batteries, as well as to add mounting holes for the titanium add-ons. Interestingly enough, they actually 'replaced' most of the parts of the entire system, and didn't just send us back new laptops. After this happened about 50 times, we finally got it into their heads that the holes in the cases were intentional, so they quit replacing them with un-modified cases, since we ended up drilling holes in the newly replaced cases all the time, so it was more work for us and IBM. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 8: 4:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (ns.mt.sri.com [206.127.79.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5436514EBD for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:04:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA15373; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:04:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA24451; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:04:30 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:04:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199912301604.JAA24451@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Nathan Mahon Cc: Nate Williams , Poul-Henning Kamp , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: References: <199912301550.IAA24298@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Aren't we talking about laptops for astronauts? they're going to be > used in zero-gravity right? so what does it matter what they weigh? Because until they get into orbit, they have weight which must be propelled into space. Getting it into space is expensive, and there's no need for ruggedization (except to keep out radiation) like the military requires. The weight of anything that must go into space is a big consideration. This is Brian Handy's queue to jump in, since he has more experience with this than anyone else I know. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 8:19:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from richard2.pil.net (richard2.pil.net [207.8.164.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0EACD15395 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:19:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from up@3.am) Received: (qmail 63638 invoked by uid 1825); 30 Dec 1999 16:19:22 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 30 Dec 1999 16:19:22 -0000 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:19:22 -0500 (EST) From: X-Sender: up@richard2.pil.net To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <59549.946568825@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 30 Dec 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> Anyone remember the "Grid Tempest" ? > > > >I don't consider it a laptop, and it pre-dates the Thinkpads. We (SRI) > >owned one of the original thinkpads made (it's sitting around here > >somewhere), which was bought in preperation for a military contract. > > Why wouldn't the tempest be a laptop ? It most surely were on. I'd say it was probably the first laptop, as portable PC's were a helluva lot bigger before then. IIRC, though, it didn't have a disk drive, but bubble memory, and alot of other functional compromises, but still, IMHO, ahead of its time. BTW, "Tempest" was not a Grid or any other brand name, but a spec for electronically secure DP equipment, and it wasn't a Mil-spec, is was an NSA spec (I wanna say NACSIM-5100A, but it's been about 15 years). There was a Mil-spec as well, and the grid met that by being both rugged and having no moving parts. Tempest versions of anything tended to cost 2-5X what the non-tempest did. James Smallacombe PlantageNet, Inc. CEO and Janitor up@3.am http://3.am ========================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 8:22:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from richard2.pil.net (richard2.pil.net [207.8.164.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A900014D4F for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:22:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from up@3.am) Received: (qmail 63880 invoked by uid 1825); 30 Dec 1999 16:22:07 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 30 Dec 1999 16:22:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:22:07 -0500 (EST) From: X-Sender: up@richard2.pil.net To: Nathan Mahon Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 30 Dec 1999, Nathan Mahon wrote: > Aren't we talking about laptops for astronauts? they're going to be used > in zero-gravity right? so what does it matter what they weigh? For one thing, they have to get it into orbit, so believe it or not, every ounce counts. I forget what each pound costs to put into orbit, but my guess is that for a modern laptop, the cost of getting it there compares to the cost of the unit. James Smallacombe PlantageNet, Inc. CEO and Janitor up@3.am http://3.am ========================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 8:31:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from taxismtp1.alchemyfx.com (taxismtp1.alchemyfx.com [208.232.0.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 568B9151F7 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:31:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@nettaxi.com) Received: from h5b2b3 (dialup-63.208.243.98.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [63.208.243.98]) by taxismtp1.alchemyfx.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA07987 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:11:54 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991228202905.007937f0@pop1.nettaxi.com> X-Sender: gummibear@pop1.nettaxi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 20:29:05 -0800 To: hardware@freebsd.org From: Joseph Garcia Subject: Which Super 7 Board? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey all!! Okay, I have been using Super 7 boards (an Asus P5A and a FIC 2013) which have given me pretty good performance, although after installing a quirky network card they haven't been the same since. First I'll fill you in the problems I have been having. It has to do with PCI IRQ settings. On the Asus board I have an ISA PnP modem, SoundBlaster 16, a PCI Intel NIC, and an AGP ATI 3D Charger video card. I have run both FreeBSD and Win98 on this machine. With this equipment I gets shared IRQ's with the NIC and video card. If I try to add more PCI cards the card might not work at all, or other weird stuff happens. It's as though if there is more than one PCI card installed the PCI bus slots stop working. This seems to happen with the FIC board too. I have tried to set the IRQ manually in the BIOS but that didn't work either. Anyways, I'm thinking I should just dump the boards and get new socket 7 boards since my chip and ram is good and stuff. Maybe my PCI cards could be salvaged too. I'm to my wits end here. It's one of those things that you'd have to see for yourself to comprehend. Any help would be appreciated. Joey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 9: 0:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5A614A0A for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:00:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19945; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:00:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:00:37 -0700 (MST) From: Brian Handy To: Nate Williams Cc: Nathan Mahon , Poul-Henning Kamp , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199912301604.JAA24451@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> [Woo hoo! Space stuff!] >> Aren't we talking about laptops for astronauts? they're going to be >> used in zero-gravity right? so what does it matter what they weigh? > >Because until they get into orbit, they have weight which must be >propelled into space. Getting it into space is expensive, and there's >no need for ruggedization (except to keep out radiation) like the >military requires. Yep, weight's an issue. It's a little more relaxed on the shuttle than other launchers, but getting stuff into space runs upwards of US$7,000/lb. I think the shuttle is worse than that. The tradeoffs are pretty obvious; you give up altitude for weight. The other major concerns are surviving the vibration at launch, thermal worries, and safety. Weight's a much much bigger issue on the smaller launch vehicles, where there's a set limit on how much you can launch, and you're constantly trading serious quantities of altitude for weight. (Most of the stuff I do is in this category -- Pegasus XLs for Small Explorer class satellites, and Black Brandts/Nike missiles for sounding rockets.) They launch people will even give you a nice graph of altitude vs. payload weight. To finish my thought, now that I'm sure I'm off on a tangent: I don't know what effect low atmospheric pressure and no gravity would have on cooling in a laptop, but someone would probably want to know. And safety on the shuttle is a HUGE issue -- having a battery blow up in an astronaut's lap would probably be an Issue. :-) Er, what was the question? Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 12:40:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from smtp5.jps.net (smtp5.jps.net [209.63.224.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38ED2151CD for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:40:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from janderso@jps.net) Received: from neptune (209-63-112-114.pdx.jps.net [209.63.112.114]) by smtp5.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA04294 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:40:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001401bf5306$22ff0230$0242a8c0@neptune> From: "John Anderson" To: Subject: HPT366 Controller Questions Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:40:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF52C3.14160130" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF52C3.14160130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All - I am very new to FreeBSD, however I have had about 3 years = of Linux experience so am not totally new to UNIX. I became somewhat = annoyed at Linux, and so I decided to look into FreeBSD. I have a CD of = 3.4-RELEASE. I am currently running dual Celerons on a BP6 (With a = HPT366 hard drive controller) and a Western Digital Expert 9gb hard = drive. The drive is a 7200RPM ATA/66 drive. My problem is that I = really have to have my hard drive on the HPT366 controller, and cannot = run it from the ATA/33 controller on the motherboard. Is there any way to make FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE work with this = combination of hard drive and controller? I know that in Linux I can = feed the kernel (Which I did not patch for ATA/66 support) the string = `ide2=3D0xd000,0xd402,15 ide3=3D0xdc00,0xe002,15` and it will force the = HPT366 controller into working like an ATA/33 controller (I think Linux = just treats it like an ATA/33 controller at those addresses and it just = works because the HPT366 is completely backwards compatible, but I am = not sure). Is there any way to accomplish this in FreeBSD? My problem = is I have no clue as to how to do this. Do I need to mess with the I/O = addresses of wdc0 or wdc1? When I booted for the first time off the CD, = I went through the Visual (Non-CLI) configuration menu, and made sure = wdc0 and wdc1 were there, but then on boot the kernel only detected my = CD-ROM which is on wdc0 (Primary non-HPT366 controller), and found = nothing on the HPT366 controller. Is there a way for it to see wdc1 as = the primary channel on the HPT366 (Would that be wdc3?)? Can FreeBSD = see more than two channels/controllers at boot? Am I totally screwed? = Do I need to run with the CURRENT branch? Please help, thanks!' -John Anderson ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF52C3.14160130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello All - I am very new to FreeBSD, = however I=20 have had about 3 years of Linux experience so am not totally new to = UNIX. =20 I became somewhat annoyed at Linux, and so I decided to look into = FreeBSD. =20 I have a CD of 3.4-RELEASE.  I am currently running dual Celerons = on a BP6=20 (With a HPT366 hard drive controller) and a Western Digital Expert 9gb = hard=20 drive.  The drive is a 7200RPM ATA/66 drive.  My problem is = that I=20 really have to have my hard drive on the HPT366 controller, and cannot = run it=20 from the ATA/33 controller on the motherboard.
    Is there any way to = make FreeBSD=20 3.4-RELEASE work with this combination of hard drive and = controller? =20 I know that in Linux I can feed the kernel (Which I did not patch for = ATA/66=20 support) the string `ide2=3D0xd000,0xd402,15 ide3=3D0xdc00,0xe002,15` = and it will=20 force the HPT366 controller into working like an ATA/33 controller (I = think=20 Linux just treats it like an ATA/33 controller at those addresses and it = just=20 works because the HPT366 is completely backwards compatible, but I am = not=20 sure).  Is there any way to accomplish this in FreeBSD?  My = problem is=20 I have no clue as to how to do this.  Do I need to mess with the = I/O=20 addresses of wdc0 or wdc1?  When I booted for the first time off = the CD, I=20 went through the Visual (Non-CLI) configuration menu, and made sure wdc0 = and=20 wdc1 were there, but then on boot the kernel only detected my CD-ROM = which is on=20 wdc0 (Primary non-HPT366 controller), and found nothing on the = HPT366=20 controller.  Is there a way for it to see wdc1 as the primary = channel on=20 the HPT366 (Would that be wdc3?)?  Can FreeBSD see more than two=20 channels/controllers at boot?  Am I totally screwed?  Do I = need to run=20 with the CURRENT branch?  Please help, thanks!'
-John = Anderson
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF52C3.14160130-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Dec 30 20:10:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95EB314CB2 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 20:10:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.3/frmug-2.5/nospam) with UUCP id FAA27020 for freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 05:10:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id A78798864; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 01:14:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 01:14:35 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? Message-ID: <19991231011435.A6417@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199912301544.IAA24237@mt.sri.com> <59549.946568825@critter.freebsd.dk> <199912301550.IAA24298@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <199912301550.IAA24298@mt.sri.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF AMD-K6/200 & 2x PPro/200 SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Nate Williams: > I was being sarcastic. 'Laptop' implies something you can stick on your > lap. This definition is not compatible with most of today's laptops (except the small Gateway (?) Poul-Henning had at one time and the VAIOs)... :-) When I see people calling a 8+ lbs / 15" display thingy (Inspiron 7xxx for example) a _laptop_, I shudder... :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #77: Thu Dec 30 12:49:51 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 31 4: 0: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from gw-nl4.philips.com (gw-nl4.philips.com [192.68.44.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1458F15091 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 03:59:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert.schofield@philips.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl4.philips.com with ESMTP id MAA24016 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 12:59:57 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from robert.schofield@philips.com) From: robert.schofield@philips.com Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl4.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma024014; Fri, 31 Dec 99 12:59:57 +0100 Received: from notessmtp-nl1.philips.com (notessmtp-nl1.philips.com [130.139.36.10]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with ESMTP id MAA00679 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 12:59:57 +0100 (MET) Received: from EHLMS01.DIAMOND.PHILIPS.COM (ehlms01sv1.diamond.philips.com [130.139.54.212]) by notessmtp-nl1.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with ESMTP id MAA28791 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 12:59:56 +0100 (MET) Received: by EHLMS01.DIAMOND.PHILIPS.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 4.0) with snapi via EMEA2 id 0056890007714602; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 12:59:54 +0100 To: Subject: RE: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? Message-ID: <0056890007714602000002L922*@MHS> Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 12:59:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name="MEMO 12/31/99 12:58:04" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >The SCO Unix I am using on my multi-processor DEC has an ECC daemon ru= nning >to carry this out, almost exactly as you describe; I think it can corr= ect one >bit errors. >The hardware must correct the errors. Maybe the daemon supports turni= ng >this on, and detecting what's happening. Yup, the hardware does the correction work and the running daemon polls= the ECC hardware for info so that it can be tabulated and logged. I seem to remember it can handle requests from clients asking for stati= stics for plotting fault rates, etc. and there is something about=20 memory pool management, hardware management and activity control too. Rob Schofield -- "Not quick, but brilliant!" - quote from a (good) friend. = To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 31 4: 8:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from gw-nl4.philips.com (gw-nl4.philips.com [192.68.44.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2F4214D02 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 04:08:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert.schofield@philips.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl4.philips.com with ESMTP id NAA24416 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:08:10 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from robert.schofield@philips.com) From: robert.schofield@philips.com Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl4.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma024414; Fri, 31 Dec 99 13:08:10 +0100 Received: from notessmtp-nl1.philips.com (notessmtp-nl1.philips.com [130.139.36.10]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with ESMTP id NAA03470 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:08:10 +0100 (MET) Received: from EHLMS01.DIAMOND.PHILIPS.COM (ehlms01sv1.diamond.philips.com [130.139.54.212]) by notessmtp-nl1.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with ESMTP id NAA29294 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:08:09 +0100 (MET) Received: by EHLMS01.DIAMOND.PHILIPS.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 4.0) with snapi via EMEA2 id 0056890007714639; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:08:07 +0100 To: Subject: Re: RE: ECC RAM useless with FreeBSD? Message-ID: <0056890007714639000002L992*@MHS> Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:08:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name="MEMO 12/31/99 13:05:59" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > does not exist Eh? -- "Not quick, but brilliant!" - quote from a (good) friend. = To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Dec 31 11:19:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from posgate.acis.com.au (posgate.acis.com.au [203.14.230.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4605115572 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:19:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au) Received: from bullseye.apana.org.au (uucp@localhost) by posgate.acis.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id GAA22592; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 06:18:16 +1100 Received: from bullseye.apana.org.au (central.apana.org.au [203.9.107.245]) by bullseye.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA08653; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 20:43:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 19:36:38 +1100 (EDT) From: Andrew MacIntyre To: John Anderson Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HPT366 Controller Questions In-Reply-To: <001401bf5306$22ff0230$0242a8c0@neptune> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [NOTE: your mail client appears not wrap properly - it would help if it was set to do so] On Thu, 30 Dec 1999, John Anderson wrote: > Is there any way to make FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE work with this combination > of hard drive and controller? I know that in Linux I can feed the > kernel (Which I did not patch for ATA/66 support) the string > `ide2=0xd000,0xd402,15 ide3=0xdc00,0xe002,15` and it will force the > HPT366 controller into working like an ATA/33 controller (I think Linux > just treats it like an ATA/33 controller at those addresses and it just > works because the HPT366 is completely backwards compatible, but I am > not sure). Is there any way to accomplish this in FreeBSD? My problem > is I have no clue as to how to do this. Do I need to mess with the I/O > addresses of wdc0 or wdc1? When I booted for the first time off the > CD, I went through the Visual (Non-CLI) configuration menu, and made > sure wdc0 and wdc1 were there, but then on boot the kernel only > detected my CD-ROM which is on wdc0 (Primary non-HPT366 controller), > and found nothing on the HPT366 controller. Is there a way for it to > see wdc1 as the primary channel on the HPT366 (Would that be wdc3?)? Well, in the visual configurator, use the values you use for Linux instead of the default values. It might be easier to make wdc0 use the HPT366 controller values, and wdc1 the primary standard IDE controller values, so that you boot from wd0 (might save you some other odd grief during install). > Can FreeBSD see more than two channels/controllers at boot? AFAIK yes, but you would need a custom kernel. You probably don't need it. I understand freebsd-current has native support for the HPT controller at UDMA/66 if the above doesn't work. -- Andrew I MacIntyre "These thoughts are mine alone..." E-mail: andrew.macintyre@aba.gov.au (work) | Snail: PO Box 370 andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au (play) | Belconnen ACT 2616 Fido: Andrew MacIntyre, 3:620/243.18 | Australia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message