From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Sep 24 21: 0: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1279937B43C for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pitt.edu ("port 1081"@[136.142.21.195]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01JUKIZH06P4008DV4@mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:59:54 EST Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:02:57 -0400 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Subject: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-id: <39CECE71.E9B8B3F1@pitt.edu> Organization: University of Pittsburgh MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From http://community.borland.com/ ________________ After Linux support is released, what is the next OS you would like Delphi and C++ Builder to support? BeOS FreeBSD MacOS X PalmOS Solaris WinCE Other ________________ VOTE!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Sep 24 23:37:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E950937B422 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parish ([62.253.88.14]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000925063732.EJYO16640.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@parish>; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:37:32 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e8P6bUx00730; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:37:30 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:37:30 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? Message-ID: <20000925073729.C252@parish> References: <39CECE71.E9B8B3F1@pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <39CECE71.E9B8B3F1@pitt.edu>; from pfg1+@pitt.edu on Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 12:02:57AM -0400 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 12:02:57AM -0400, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > >From http://community.borland.com/ > ________________ > After Linux support is > released, what is the > next OS you would like > Delphi and C++ > Builder to support? > BeOS > FreeBSD > MacOS X > PalmOS > Solaris > WinCE > Other > ________________ > VOTE!! > Done! We need (many) more people to vote though. We are currently second last (in fact, last of the named OSen) :( BeOS FreeBSD MacOS X PalmOS Solaris WinCE Other Votes: 57 Votes: 39 Votes: 127 Votes: 126 Votes: 77 Votes: 74 Votes: 16 11 % 8 % 25 % 24 % 15 % 14% 3% Note that you have to register before you can vote. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- 4.4 - The number of the Beastie ________________________________________________________________ 51.44°N FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org 2.057°W My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark mailto:marko@freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 6:19:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pebkac.owp.csus.edu (pebkac.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B1637B424 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scottj@localhost) by pebkac.owp.csus.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00230; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: scottj@pebkac.owp.csus.edu To: Wes Peters Cc: Bill Fumerola , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wats so special about freeBSD? In-Reply-To: <39CC3AEB.3D768A0E@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Wes Peters wrote: > OTOH, if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you're > doing, OpenBSD installs a much more secure configuration out of the box. > The afterboot(8) man page helps a neophyte administrator figure out what > they might want to do to continue securing their system. ROFL!!! I'm sorry, I realize this you were serious here, but when I read I almost did fall down laughing. This part just kills me : "if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you're doing ..." I've found that if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you are doing, it's not very likely to be secure in the end. Please don't get me wrong, I understand you point that OBSD's default install is "more secure" than FreeBSD (at least for now), but if you don't know what you are doing, the odds are just way to high that you'll screw something up. If you don't what you are doing and you want to install a secure system, you really should start out reading a whole ton of books, work with someone who does deal with admin'ing from a security perspective, and work you tail off to come up to speed. --- Joseph Scott joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu The Office Of Water Programs - CSU Sacramento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 6:42:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47AD837B422 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA30424; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:41:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:41:29 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Joseph Scott Cc: Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wats so special about freeBSD? Message-ID: <20000925094129.A30394@blackhelicopters.org> References: <39CC3AEB.3D768A0E@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu on Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 06:18:28AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > "if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you're doing > ..." Unfortunately, that's life in IT nowadays. I'm the support management dude for a consulting company. We run NT, AIX, Solaris, AS/400, and a few other things, not to mention the programs than run on them. The folks under me are decent, but not what I'd call "expert." FreeBSD is fairly easy to lock down, but I'd feel *far* better if I knew everything on all my boxes was shut down by default. I do a "netstat -na" on a Solaris machine and cry. Many UNIXes make it difficult to identify what's running where. Should the company devote the hundreds of man-hours necessary to learn exactly what is running everywhere and determine how necessary it is? Yep. Are they going to? Nope. Can we even *hire* some of those experts here in Detroit? Nope. All I can say is, thank God for my FreeBSD firewall. All I have to worry about is my inside users. :) ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 11: 2:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B07CA37B424; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA80369; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:53:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200009251753.NAA80369@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Mark Ovens" , "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:00:40 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <20000925073729.C252@parish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:37:30 +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: >On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 12:02:57AM -0400, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >> >From http://community.borland.com/ >We need (many) more people to vote though. We are currently second last (in >fact, last of the named OSen) :( > > > BeOS FreeBSD MacOS X PalmOS Solaris WinCE Other >Votes: 57 Votes: 39 Votes: 127 Votes: 126 Votes: 77 Votes: 74 Votes: 16 > 11 % 8 % 25 % 24 % 15 % 14% 3% We now how more votes, but still only second last! I sure hope that this is an indication that people have not heard about this.. I would hate to think that the developer community on FreeBSD wouldn't want a tool like this ported. Delphi is my prefered development environment on windows. On FreeBSD I am starting to try CodeForge. francisco Moderator of the Corporate BSD list http://www.egroups.com/group/BSD_Corporate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 11:13:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69BC37B61E; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA31801; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:10:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:10:10 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Francisco Reyes Cc: Mark Ovens , "Pedro F. Giffuni" , "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? Message-ID: <20000925141010.A31761@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20000925073729.C252@parish> <200009251753.NAA80369@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200009251753.NAA80369@sanson.reyes.somos.net>; from fran@reyes.somos.net on Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 02:00:40PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, -advocacy has limited readership. Does some respected personage want to bounce this over to -current or -questions? > We now how more votes, but still only second last! > I sure hope that this is an indication that people have not > heard about this.. > I would hate to think that the developer community on FreeBSD > wouldn't want a tool like this ported. -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 11:57:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pebkac.owp.csus.edu (pebkac.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD75B37B42C for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from owp.csus.edu (cxinax@[130.86.77.19]) by pebkac.owp.csus.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02921; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:56:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Message-ID: <39CF9ECC.A31DAD97@owp.csus.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:51:56 -0700 From: Joseph Scott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Lucas Cc: Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wats so special about freeBSD? References: <39CC3AEB.3D768A0E@softweyr.com> <20000925094129.A30394@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Lucas wrote: > > > "if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you're doing > > ..." > > Unfortunately, that's life in IT nowadays. I find that I'm often put into the position of being less secure than I'd like to more because of pressure from people in power who don't have a clear understanding of the issues. My boss is pretty good about it, his boss is fairly ok about it, but above that it gets ugly :-( Yes, it's part of my job to help educate these folks, but my point is that often is more of a social/politcal difficulty for me to secure a box more than anything else. > I'm the support management dude for a consulting company. We run NT, > AIX, Solaris, AS/400, and a few other things, not to mention the > programs than run on them. The folks under me are decent, but not > what I'd call "expert." My office and several other programs on campus have been going through this problem for over a year now. It can be very difficult to attract even half qualified people. We are only 1.5-2 hours from Silicon Valley and that hasn't helped in attracting people :-( > FreeBSD is fairly easy to lock down, but I'd feel *far* better if I > knew everything on all my boxes was shut down by default. I do a > "netstat -na" on a Solaris machine and cry. Many UNIXes make it > difficult to identify what's running where. > > Should the company devote the hundreds of man-hours necessary to learn > exactly what is running everywhere and determine how necessary it is? > Yep. Are they going to? Nope. Can we even *hire* some of those > experts here in Detroit? Nope. A painful reality compressed into one paragraph. > All I can say is, thank God for my FreeBSD firewall. All I have to > worry about is my inside users. :) I have a lot more confidence in my firewalls than I do in my users inside of them. Given that I worry because a firewall only addresses certain issues. Ug. -- Joseph Scott joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu The Office Of Water Programs - CSU Sacramento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 12: 8: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B399D37B424 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA32190; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:07:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:07:44 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Joseph Scott Cc: Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wats so special about freeBSD? Message-ID: <20000925150744.A32170@blackhelicopters.org> References: <39CC3AEB.3D768A0E@softweyr.com> <20000925094129.A30394@blackhelicopters.org> <39CF9ECC.A31DAD97@owp.csus.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <39CF9ECC.A31DAD97@owp.csus.edu>; from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu on Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 11:51:56AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 11:51:56AM -0700, Joseph Scott wrote: > > I have a lot more confidence in my firewalls than I do in my users > inside of them. Given that I worry because a firewall only addresses > certain issues. > Now *there* I'm lucky. If I can document that a user broke into an internal system (doable, given the number of 486s with serial connections doing nothing but logging), that user will bounce at least twice on his way out the door. :) Thursday night, I get to fire up Nessus on the internal network. This is going to be fun. You wanna see a manager turn green? Nessus generates nice pie graphs that anyone can understand, displaying exactly what all your security problems are and how they can be exploited. I'm expecting each NT box to be bright red. The obligatory -advocacy comment; the BSD boxes will, of course, be all green. ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 12:18:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89AC537B50B for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bioe-design-7.bioe.pitt.edu ("port 2724"@[136.142.178.190]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01JULF2EMQ4U001ET8@mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu> for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:18:30 EST Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:19:33 -0400 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Subject: Re: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? In-reply-to: <20000925141010.A31761@blackhelicopters.org> Originator-info: login-id=pfg1; server=imap.pitt.edu To: "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Message-id: <3527532160.969895173@bioe-design-7.bioe.pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [1.4.4, s/n S-398070] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-chat is more appropiate, but I think someone shoud submit this to DaemonNews..sorry, think I lost my password. Pedro. --On Monday, September 25, 2000, 2:10 PM -0400 Michael Lucas wrote:r > Well, -advocacy has limited readership. Does some respected personage > want to bounce this over to -current or -questions? > >> We now how more votes, but still only second last! >> I sure hope that this is an indication that people have not >> heard about this.. >> I would hate to think that the developer community on FreeBSD >> wouldn't want a tool like this ported. > > -- > Michael Lucas > mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ > Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 12:21:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00DA837B43C for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bioe-design-7.bioe.pitt.edu ("port 2754"@[136.142.178.190]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01JULF5P7UIK000W1R@mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu> for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:21:10 EST Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:22:13 -0400 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Subject: Re: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? In-reply-to: <200009251753.NAA80369@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Originator-info: login-id=pfg1; server=imap.pitt.edu To: Francisco Reyes Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Message-id: <3527691550.969895333@bioe-design-7.bioe.pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [1.4.4, s/n S-398070] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks for posting this on daily.daemonnews.org Francisco... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 12:45:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269D637B422; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25732; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:42:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAk6aq2X; Mon Sep 25 12:41:50 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29506; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:44:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200009251944.MAA29506@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? To: fran@reyes.somos.net Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:44:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: marko@FreeBSD.ORG (Mark Ovens), pfg1+@pitt.edu (Pedro F. Giffuni), freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG (freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) In-Reply-To: <200009251753.NAA80369@sanson.reyes.somos.net> from "Francisco Reyes" at Sep 25, 2000 02:00:40 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > BeOS FreeBSD MacOS X PalmOS Solaris WinCE Other > >Votes: 57 Votes: 39 Votes: 127 Votes: 126 Votes: 77 Votes: 74 Votes: 16 > > 11 % 8 % 25 % 24 % 15 % 14% 3% > > We now how more votes, but still only second last! > I sure hope that this is an indication that people have not > heard about this.. > I would hate to think that the developer community on FreeBSD > wouldn't want a tool like this ported. I'm already a Borland user. But if you are not, you must register for SPAM in order to be permitted to vote, and then you have to take a confirmation email they give you and paste a URL into a browser to verify that you have not lied about your email address, so that they can confirm the ability to SPAM you (they let you opt out of getting email SPAM, or so they say, but...). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 12:49:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED63C37B507 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 90CD511; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C7C49A12; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:48:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? In-Reply-To: <3527532160.969895173@bioe-design-7.bioe.pitt.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Somebody already did. :-) Thanks Francisco. BTW: We made the link to recover your password on the front page so its easier to find. And you don't need a password to submit news, just to add comments. Chris Coleman Daemon News http://www.daemonnews.org Bringing BSD together On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > freebsd-chat is more appropiate, but I think someone shoud submit this to > DaemonNews..sorry, think I lost my password. > > Pedro. > > > > --On Monday, September 25, 2000, 2:10 PM -0400 Michael Lucas > wrote:r > > > Well, -advocacy has limited readership. Does some respected personage > > want to bounce this over to -current or -questions? > > > >> We now how more votes, but still only second last! > >> I sure hope that this is an indication that people have not > >> heard about this.. > >> I would hate to think that the developer community on FreeBSD > >> wouldn't want a tool like this ported. > > > > -- > > Michael Lucas > > mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org > > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ > > Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 13:40:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 026DB37B422; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 26CD11C6E; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:40:27 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: Terry Lambert Cc: fran@reyes.somos.net, Mark Ovens , "Pedro F. Giffuni" , "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? Message-ID: <20000925164027.K34501@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: <200009251753.NAA80369@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <200009251944.MAA29506@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200009251944.MAA29506@usr02.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 07:44:37PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 07:44:37PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > I'm already a Borland user. But if you are not, you must > register for SPAM in order to be permitted to vote, and then > you have to take a confirmation email they give you and paste > a URL into a browser to verify that you have not lied about > your email address, so that they can confirm the ability to > SPAM you (they let you opt out of getting email SPAM, or so > they say, but...). Signup as terry+borland@lambert.org and either block that in your local filter (well, after you get the confirmation mail/URL) or accept it and tell them off for spamming you. Or both. -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect, BOFH / Chimes, Inc. billf@chimesnet.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 18:11:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8656537B422; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA81789; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:03:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200009260103.VAA81789@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Terry Lambert" Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Mark Ovens" , "Pedro F. Giffuni" Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:09:57 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <200009251944.MAA29506@usr02.primenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:44:37 +0000 (GMT), Terry Lambert wrote: >I'm already a Borland user. But if you are not, you must >register for SPAM in order to be permitted to vote, and then >you have to take a confirmation email they give you and paste >a URL into a browser to verify that you have not lied about >your email address, so that they can confirm the ability to >SPAM you (they let you opt out of getting email SPAM, or so >they say, but...). There is actually a trivial way to check if they spam. Method 1 1-Register a new address at yahoo/hotmail (your prefered free email site) 2-Register at Borland's community page unmark all the Spam buttons Wait to see if you get spammed.. Method 2 (even better) 1-Register a new address at a non free email service 2-Register at Borland's community page unmark all the Spam buttons Wait to see if you get spammed.. The different between 1 and 2 is that on 1 you may be victim of the mail servervice giving out your addres or even using it themselves to send you spam. francisco Moderator of the Corporate BSD list http://www.egroups.com/group/BSD_Corporate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 25 22: 7:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251D137B424 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:07:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parish ([62.253.84.196]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000925182226.RDJU27285.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@parish>; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:22:26 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e8PIMdr04408; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:22:39 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:22:22 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Francisco Reyes Cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? Message-ID: <20000925192222.K252@parish> References: <20000925073729.C252@parish> <200009251753.NAA80369@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200009251753.NAA80369@sanson.reyes.somos.net>; from fran@reyes.somos.net on Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 02:00:40PM -0400 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 02:00:40PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:37:30 +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 12:02:57AM -0400, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > >> >From http://community.borland.com/ > >We need (many) more people to vote though. We are currently second last (in > >fact, last of the named OSen) :( > > > > > > BeOS FreeBSD MacOS X PalmOS Solaris WinCE Other > >Votes: 57 Votes: 39 Votes: 127 Votes: 126 Votes: 77 Votes: 74 Votes: 16 > > 11 % 8 % 25 % 24 % 15 % 14% 3% > > We now how more votes, but still only second last! > I sure hope that this is an indication that people have not > heard about this.. > I would hate to think that the developer community on FreeBSD > wouldn't want a tool like this ported. > It would certainly be good to get it. That poll would, I imagine, be a fairly accurate representation of demand as it is necessary to register in order to vote and, if you vote again, your previous vote is automatically cancelled which should prevent (or go some way to preventing) script kiddies skewing the results. Come on FreeBSD'ers. Let Borland know that we are worth supporting! > Delphi is my prefered development environment on windows. On > FreeBSD I am starting to try CodeForge. > > > > francisco > Moderator of the Corporate BSD list > http://www.egroups.com/group/BSD_Corporate > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- 4.4 - The number of the Beastie ________________________________________________________________ 51.44°N FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org 2.057°W My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark mailto:marko@freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Sep 26 8:25:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from exchange.nils.lib.il.us (mailsrv.nils.lib.il.us [206.190.22.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E636237B424 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by EXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:25:15 -0500 Message-ID: <3073B3378589D411B21600508BAF32AA012344@EXCHANGE> From: Nathan Williams To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:25:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Did anyone ever post this to -questions, or any of the other groups. BSD is within a couple of percentage points of being second. We just need to pull a few more votes out of the ether. Nathan Williams nathanw@nils.lib.il.us > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Reyes [SMTP:fran@reyes.somos.net] > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 1:01 PM > To: Mark Ovens; Pedro F. Giffuni > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: POLL: Kylix for FreeBSD ?? > > On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:37:30 +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >On Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 12:02:57AM -0400, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > >> >From http://community.borland.com/ > >We need (many) more people to vote though. We are currently second last > (in > >fact, last of the named OSen) :( > > > > > > BeOS FreeBSD MacOS X PalmOS Solaris WinCE Other > >Votes: 57 Votes: 39 Votes: 127 Votes: 126 Votes: 77 Votes: 74 Votes: 16 > > 11 % 8 % 25 % 24 % 15 % 14% 3% > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Sep 26 12:28:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C79737B422; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26249; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:28:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926124623.04cf18b0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:56:14 -0600 To: Nathan Williams , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Pulse poll at Borland In-Reply-To: <3073B3378589D411B21600508BAF32AA012345@EXCHANGE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Borland has a long history of ignoring all but the #1 platform in any niche -- a strategy which has caused them serious problems more than once. Their support of Windows to the exclusion of all other OSes in the 90's made them dependent on Microsoft and practically destroyed the company. When I asked them, at the February LinuxWorld, if they'd be supporting FreeBSD, the marketing droid at the booth asked me (I kid you not) "Which distribution of Linux is that? I've never heard of it." The sad part is that their booth was about two aisles away from the Walnut Creek/BSDi booth. I don't even think they "got it" when the 10-foot-high daemon walked by. When I posted messages on their site's message boards asking politely about support for the BSDs, they simply did not respond. This despite the fact that Borland language manager Simon Thornhill claims that "Borland does not have a platform agenda." (Odd, then, that they support so few platforms!) In short, Borland needs a serious wake-up call. A *lot* of people will have to respond to that poll before they even consider any of the BSDs, and if we're not #1 (or, at best, #2) they simply won't do it. So folks had better vote early and often. This is a company that up to this point has had little foresight and does not have any sense of the value of diversification. I hope they will change. I'm not holding my breath, though, as they have been so dense for all of these years. --Brett Glass At 11:05 AM 9/26/2000, Nathan Williams wrote: >I'm not sure if anyone has alerted this group yet, so I'm sorry if this is a >repeat. Borland is conducting a developer's poll at >http://community.borland.com addressing which OS to add support to for C++ >Builder and Delphi. Currently FreeBSD is 4th, but could easily pull of >second place if we could get a few more votes in. Nobody knows how much >cred Borland puts into these surveys, but this is a great and essential >opportunity for the FreeBSD community to express their interest in corporate >support for FreeBSD applications. So, VOTE goddamnit. >Nathan Williams >nathanw@nils.lib.il.us >P.S. Before voting you will need to fill out a very short registration >form, no biggy so don't let it discourage you from making your voice heard. > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Sep 26 12:34:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from exchange.nils.lib.il.us (mailsrv.nils.lib.il.us [206.190.22.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E808D37B424; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by EXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:34:22 -0500 Message-ID: <3073B3378589D411B21600508BAF32AA012349@EXCHANGE> From: Nathan Williams To: Brett Glass , Nathan Williams , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Pulse poll at Borland Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:34:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So, did you vote? > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Glass [SMTP:brett@lariat.org] > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:56 PM > To: Nathan Williams; chat@FreeBSD.ORG; advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Pulse poll at Borland > > Borland has a long history of ignoring all but the #1 platform in any > niche -- a strategy which has caused them serious problems more than > once. Their support of Windows to the exclusion of all other OSes in > the 90's made them dependent on Microsoft and practically destroyed > the company. > > When I asked them, at the February LinuxWorld, if they'd be supporting > FreeBSD, the marketing droid at the booth asked me (I kid you not) > "Which distribution of Linux is that? I've never heard of it." > > The sad part is that their booth was about two aisles away from > the Walnut Creek/BSDi booth. I don't even think they "got it" when > the 10-foot-high daemon walked by. > > When I posted messages on their site's message boards asking politely > about support for the BSDs, they simply did not respond. This despite > the fact that Borland language manager Simon Thornhill claims that > "Borland does not have a platform agenda." (Odd, then, that they > support so few platforms!) > > In short, Borland needs a serious wake-up call. > > A *lot* of people will have to respond to that poll before they even > consider any of the BSDs, and if we're not #1 (or, at best, #2) they > simply won't do it. So folks had better vote early and often. > > This is a company that up to this point has had little foresight and > does not have any sense of the value of diversification. I hope they > will change. I'm not holding my breath, though, as they have been so > dense for all of these years. > > --Brett Glass > > At 11:05 AM 9/26/2000, Nathan Williams wrote: > > >I'm not sure if anyone has alerted this group yet, so I'm sorry if this > is a > >repeat. Borland is conducting a developer's poll at > >http://community.borland.com addressing which OS to add support to for > C++ > >Builder and Delphi. Currently FreeBSD is 4th, but could easily pull of > >second place if we could get a few more votes in. Nobody knows how much > >cred Borland puts into these surveys, but this is a great and essential > >opportunity for the FreeBSD community to express their interest in > corporate > >support for FreeBSD applications. So, VOTE goddamnit. > >Nathan Williams > >nathanw@nils.lib.il.us > >P.S. Before voting you will need to fill out a very short registration > >form, no biggy so don't let it discourage you from making your voice > heard. > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Sep 26 12:47:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from epsilon.lucida.qc.ca (epsilon.lucida.qc.ca [216.95.146.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8697137B42C for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1469 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Sep 2000 19:47:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 26 Sep 2000 19:47:03 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:47:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Matt Heckaman X-Sender: matt@epsilon.lucida.qc.ca To: Brett Glass Cc: Nathan Williams , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pulse poll at Borland In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926124623.04cf18b0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Rating: localhost 1.6.2 0/1000/N Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thankfully we have great development software such as CodeForge (http://www.codeforge.com) - It's not open source, however they do actively support a native FreeBSD version. I have been quite thrilled with it since the day I first tried out the evaluation version. At 50$ for a Single-User Commercial license, it's very reasonably priced. I don't think I'd leave it for Borland even if it existed for FreeBSD native. :) Matt On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Brett Glass wrote: : Borland has a long history of ignoring all but the #1 platform in any : niche -- a strategy which has caused them serious problems more than : once. Their support of Windows to the exclusion of all other OSes in : the 90's made them dependent on Microsoft and practically destroyed : the company. : : When I asked them, at the February LinuxWorld, if they'd be supporting : FreeBSD, the marketing droid at the booth asked me (I kid you not) : "Which distribution of Linux is that? I've never heard of it." : : The sad part is that their booth was about two aisles away from : the Walnut Creek/BSDi booth. I don't even think they "got it" when : the 10-foot-high daemon walked by. : : When I posted messages on their site's message boards asking politely : about support for the BSDs, they simply did not respond. This despite : the fact that Borland language manager Simon Thornhill claims that : "Borland does not have a platform agenda." (Odd, then, that they : support so few platforms!) : : In short, Borland needs a serious wake-up call. : : A *lot* of people will have to respond to that poll before they even : consider any of the BSDs, and if we're not #1 (or, at best, #2) they : simply won't do it. So folks had better vote early and often. : : This is a company that up to this point has had little foresight and : does not have any sense of the value of diversification. I hope they : will change. I'm not holding my breath, though, as they have been so : dense for all of these years. : : --Brett Glass * Matt Heckaman - mailto:matt@lucida.qc.ca http://www.lucida.qc.ca/ * * GPG fingerprint - A9BC F3A8 278E 22F2 9BDA BFCF 74C3 2D31 C035 5390 * -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.3 (FreeBSD) Comment: http://www.lucida.qc.ca/pgp iD8DBQE50P03dMMtMcA1U5ARAtq7AKDDRE7/VGRGb55BqIWKdBJyL173owCgsxPN FcI1gwDo9Iirh+GkOgbUZJE= =MbRK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Sep 26 12:49:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from exchange.nils.lib.il.us (mailsrv.nils.lib.il.us [206.190.22.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669E137B424 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by EXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:49:38 -0500 Message-ID: <3073B3378589D411B21600508BAF32AA01234B@EXCHANGE> From: Nathan Williams To: Matt Heckaman , Brett Glass Cc: Nathan Williams , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Pulse poll at Borland Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:49:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG But wouldn't you like to have the choice? > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Heckaman [SMTP:matt@ARPA.MAIL.NET] > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:47 PM > To: Brett Glass > Cc: Nathan Williams; advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Pulse poll at Borland > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Thankfully we have great development software such as CodeForge > (http://www.codeforge.com) - It's not open source, however they do > actively support a native FreeBSD version. I have been quite thrilled with > it since the day I first tried out the evaluation version. At 50$ for a > Single-User Commercial license, it's very reasonably priced. I don't think > I'd leave it for Borland even if it existed for FreeBSD native. :) > > Matt > > On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Brett Glass wrote: > > : Borland has a long history of ignoring all but the #1 platform in any > : niche -- a strategy which has caused them serious problems more than > : once. Their support of Windows to the exclusion of all other OSes in > : the 90's made them dependent on Microsoft and practically destroyed > : the company. > : > : When I asked them, at the February LinuxWorld, if they'd be supporting > : FreeBSD, the marketing droid at the booth asked me (I kid you not) > : "Which distribution of Linux is that? I've never heard of it." > : > : The sad part is that their booth was about two aisles away from > : the Walnut Creek/BSDi booth. I don't even think they "got it" when > : the 10-foot-high daemon walked by. > : > : When I posted messages on their site's message boards asking politely > : about support for the BSDs, they simply did not respond. This despite > : the fact that Borland language manager Simon Thornhill claims that > : "Borland does not have a platform agenda." (Odd, then, that they > : support so few platforms!) > : > : In short, Borland needs a serious wake-up call. > : > : A *lot* of people will have to respond to that poll before they even > : consider any of the BSDs, and if we're not #1 (or, at best, #2) they > : simply won't do it. So folks had better vote early and often. > : > : This is a company that up to this point has had little foresight and > : does not have any sense of the value of diversification. I hope they > : will change. I'm not holding my breath, though, as they have been so > : dense for all of these years. > : > : --Brett Glass > > * Matt Heckaman - mailto:matt@lucida.qc.ca http://www.lucida.qc.ca/ * > * GPG fingerprint - A9BC F3A8 278E 22F2 9BDA BFCF 74C3 2D31 C035 5390 * > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.3 (FreeBSD) > Comment: http://www.lucida.qc.ca/pgp > > iD8DBQE50P03dMMtMcA1U5ARAtq7AKDDRE7/VGRGb55BqIWKdBJyL173owCgsxPN > FcI1gwDo9Iirh+GkOgbUZJE= > =MbRK > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Sep 26 12:53:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from epsilon.lucida.qc.ca (epsilon.lucida.qc.ca [216.95.146.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 72AF937B422 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1566 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Sep 2000 19:53:45 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 26 Sep 2000 19:53:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:53:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Matt Heckaman X-Sender: matt@epsilon.lucida.qc.ca To: Nathan Williams Cc: Brett Glass , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Pulse poll at Borland In-Reply-To: <3073B3378589D411B21600508BAF32AA01234B@EXCHANGE> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Rating: localhost 1.6.2 0/1000/N Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Nathan Williams wrote: : But wouldn't you like to have the choice? Yes I would, the more choice the better. That is why I went and voted on it last night. It was about time I put my Borland Community user id to some good work. :) * Matt Heckaman - mailto:matt@lucida.qc.ca http://www.lucida.qc.ca/ * * GPG fingerprint - A9BC F3A8 278E 22F2 9BDA BFCF 74C3 2D31 C035 5390 * -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.3 (FreeBSD) Comment: http://www.lucida.qc.ca/pgp iD8DBQE50P7IdMMtMcA1U5ARAgwOAJ4ymA3JpBiFWqQigmapNSYWCJObmACfesf/ /5z3gnsSGqXUEhQpiS2BDPQ= =xced -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Sep 26 13:37:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B8BC37B424; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27088; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:37:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926143546.00cf7a80@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:36:31 -0600 To: Nathan Williams , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: RE: Pulse poll at Borland In-Reply-To: <3073B3378589D411B21600508BAF32AA012349@EXCHANGE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yep. Alas, BeOS (!) was beating us about 2:1. --Brett At 01:34 PM 9/26/2000, Nathan Williams wrote: >So, did you vote? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Sep 26 20: 8: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop2.gte.net (smtppop2pub.gte.net [206.46.170.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91E2637B423; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gte.net (evrtwa1-ar4-144-246.dsl.gtei.net [4.34.144.246]) by smtppop2.gte.net with ESMTP ; id WAA30319009 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 22:06:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from res03db2@localhost) by gte.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01026; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:07:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from res03db2@gte.net) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:07:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Clark Message-Id: <200009270307.UAA01026@gte.net> To: jswarner@uswest.net, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: Just Imagine.. Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200009212124.OAA17535@usr08.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry, I spent a few minutes with a co-worker the other day, and she proceeded to tell me a story about how the sparc design (out of Berkeley) competed with the MIPS design (out of Stanford) for a while. Being the lore-meister you are, have you any pointers to reading material of this sort? Thanks, [R,C] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Sep 26 23: 5:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A5F37B422 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 13eAVG-0000E2-00; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:15:38 -0600 Message-ID: <39D19089.6840F2A5@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:15:37 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.1-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joseph Scott Cc: Bill Fumerola , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wats so special about freeBSD? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joseph Scott wrote: > > On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Wes Peters wrote: > > > OTOH, if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you're > > doing, OpenBSD installs a much more secure configuration out of the box. > > The afterboot(8) man page helps a neophyte administrator figure out what > > they might want to do to continue securing their system. > > ROFL!!! I'm sorry, I realize this you were serious here, but when I read > I almost did fall down laughing. This part just kills me : > > "if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you're doing > ..." Keep right on laughing, while thinking about the staff of "IT Professionals" installing and maintaing the internet gateway at your bank, your city gov't, and your local utilities. It is not a laughing matter. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 27 0:52: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.thuntek.net (mail2.thuntek.net [206.206.98.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C77837B422 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Silver-Lynx.com (abq-046.thuntek.net [207.66.52.46]) by mail2.thuntek.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e8R7pmn65539; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:51:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Message-ID: <39D1A726.B2338D5B@Silver-Lynx.com> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:52:06 -0600 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: Don@Silver-Lynx.com Organization: Silver Lynx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.5-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: Joseph Scott , Bill Fumerola , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wats so special about freeBSD? References: <39D19089.6840F2A5@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > ROFL!!! I'm sorry, I realize this you were serious here, but when I read > > I almost did fall down laughing. This part just kills me : > > > > "if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you're doing > > ..." > > Keep right on laughing, while thinking about the staff of "IT Professionals" > installing and maintaing the internet gateway at your bank, your city gov't, > and your local utilities. It is not a laughing matter. > Yeah. I'm almost to the point where I advocate we start cracking systems to prove the point. Government f*'s up too many times already because of human frailty and greed to leave them the excuse of outside influences to skate on, but they won't budge unless we scare their pants off. I have a couple of friends in Ukraine who cut their teeth on cracking (at 15!!!) and one now writes for TechRepublic on the subject (Alex Prohorenko). I hate to say it, but some of the techniques he describes will (if successful) likely blast holes in a BSD system too. -- Donald Wilde "Linking Minds and Micros" ================= S i l v e r L y n x =================== PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Silver-Lynx.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 27 1:56:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (mail2.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C15A037B422 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from work ([24.9.223.188]) by mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20000927085632.XARX18449.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com@work> for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:56:32 -0700 To: From: Subject: sex MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit content-length: 49 Message-Id: <20000927085632.XARX18449.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com@work> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:56:32 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.sweetlipzservice.com 1-866-793-3848 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 27 1:56:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (mail2.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A1E37B423 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from work ([24.9.223.188]) by mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20000927085632.XARY18449.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com@work> for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:56:32 -0700 To: From: Subject: sex MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit content-length: 49 Message-Id: <20000927085632.XARY18449.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com@work> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:56:32 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.sweetlipzservice.com 1-866-793-3848 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 27 4:49:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4AE937B42C for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 04:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA39140; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:49:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:49:18 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Don Wilde Cc: Wes Peters , Joseph Scott , Bill Fumerola , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wats so special about freeBSD? Message-ID: <20000927074918.A39110@blackhelicopters.org> References: <39D19089.6840F2A5@softweyr.com> <39D1A726.B2338D5B@Silver-Lynx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <39D1A726.B2338D5B@Silver-Lynx.com>; from Don@Silver-Lynx.com on Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 01:52:06AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 01:52:06AM -0600, Don Wilde wrote: > Yeah. I'm almost to the point where I advocate we start cracking systems > to prove the point. Government f*'s up too many times already because of > human frailty and greed to leave them the excuse of outside influences > to skate on, but they won't budge unless we scare their pants off. Folks have been there, and done that. There was that recent federal plea that boiled down to "We know, please leave us alone so we can catch up." Net result: nothing. No budget change, no decrease in crackz, nothing. The people on the front lines know it, but those who control the purse strings don't give a damn. It would take a *big* crack to get their attention, something big enough to risk their political careers. Anyway, this is a discussion better settled over a few drinks. Let's just agree that "IT 'professionals' suck" and get on with life. ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 27 6:18:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pebkac.owp.csus.edu (pebkac.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D4037B422 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scottj@localhost) by pebkac.owp.csus.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18299; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: scottj@pebkac.owp.csus.edu To: Wes Peters Cc: Joseph Scott , Bill Fumerola , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wats so special about freeBSD? In-Reply-To: <39D19089.6840F2A5@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Wes Peters wrote: > Joseph Scott wrote: > > > > On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > OTOH, if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you're > > > doing, OpenBSD installs a much more secure configuration out of the box. > > > The afterboot(8) man page helps a neophyte administrator figure out what > > > they might want to do to continue securing their system. > > > > ROFL!!! I'm sorry, I realize this you were serious here, but when I read > > I almost did fall down laughing. This part just kills me : > > > > "if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you're doing > > ..." > > Keep right on laughing, while thinking about the staff of "IT Professionals" > installing and maintaing the internet gateway at your bank, your city gov't, > and your local utilities. It is not a laughing matter. The laughing part came from the idea that just because they used a system that installs out of the box in a secure manner doesn't mean they won't then go on to screw it up. I'm not claiming this as reason to give up on having a default of a secure install, simply that a secure install is not a silver bullet. Looking at all the different systems that I interact with as a consumer, yes it makes me more than a little nervous how most companies/utilities/etc "manage security". Strangely enough I was asked to interview for a job that they'd tried to fill on three different occassion's in past. Their problem : getting people to apply that new more than "I can display the files in a directory using ls". And those were the college grads :-( --- Joseph Scott joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu The Office Of Water Programs - CSU Sacramento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 27 10:22:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D47C37B440; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08441; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000927111427.048114f0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:20:37 -0600 To: 1mazda1 <1mazda1@phoenixdsl.com> From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Pulse poll at Borland Cc: Alfred Perlstein , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <39D249F4.AA65FE23@phoenixdsl.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926143546.00cf7a80@localhost> <3073B3378589D411B21600508BAF32AA012349@EXCHANGE> <4.3.2.7.2.20000926143546.00cf7a80@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20000926184939.04d83ae0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 01:26 PM 9/27/2000, 1mazda1 wrote: >> Yep. Believe it or not, I even have a BeBox in the lab. > >> --Brett > >WHY??????????? It holds the door open. ;-) Seriously, it's actually a pretty spiffy machine, with its Wurlizer-style jukebox LEDs and all. I'd run NetBSD on it if they could get SMP working, but right now I'd waste half the CPU if I didn't keep BeOS on it. As for Borland, it's true that they're sticks in the mud, but it's nonetheless highly embarrassing that the BeBoys are outvoting FreeBSD 2:1. Borland will probably throw that up to anyone who asks for FreeBSD support in the future. Maybe the ballot box is being stuffed by a BeBot? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 27 10:46:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.thuntek.net (mail2.thuntek.net [206.206.98.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85B5537B423 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Silver-Lynx.com (abq-177.thuntek.net [207.66.52.177]) by mail2.thuntek.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e8RHkIn02405; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:46:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Message-ID: <39D23282.E60F806A@Silver-Lynx.com> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:46:42 -0600 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: Don@Silver-Lynx.com Organization: Silver Lynx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.5-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joseph Scott Cc: Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wats so special about freeBSD? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joseph Scott wrote: > > On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Wes Peters wrote: > > > Joseph Scott wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > > > OTOH, if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you're > > > > doing, OpenBSD installs a much more secure configuration out of the box. > > > > The afterboot(8) man page helps a neophyte administrator figure out what > > > > they might want to do to continue securing their system. > > > > > > ROFL!!! I'm sorry, I realize this you were serious here, but when I read > > > I almost did fall down laughing. This part just kills me : > > > > > > "if you want to install a secure system and don't know what you're doing > > > ..." > > > > Keep right on laughing, while thinking about the staff of "IT Professionals" > > installing and maintaing the internet gateway at your bank, your city gov't, > > and your local utilities. It is not a laughing matter. > > The laughing part came from the idea that just because they used a > system that installs out of the box in a secure manner doesn't mean they > won't then go on to screw it up. I'm not claiming this as reason to give > up on having a default of a secure install, simply that a secure install > is not a silver bullet. > > Looking at all the different systems that I interact with as a > consumer, yes it makes me more than a little nervous how most > companies/utilities/etc "manage security". > > Strangely enough I was asked to interview for a job that they'd > tried to fill on three different occassion's in past. Their problem > : getting people to apply that new more than "I can display the files in a > directory using ls". And those were the college grads :-( > There's a new book out by John Taylor Gatto called "The Underground History of American Education," available from http://www.laissezfairebooks.com. It's the story of how a quarter billion kids' brains have been deliberately savaged by American schools. It explains a lot in a lot of areas of American society. Highly recommended! My mother, a died-in-the-wool Dem, called it "horrifying", and there was no doubt in my mind that she believed at least 99% of it. -- Donald Wilde "Linking Minds and Micros" ================= S i l v e r L y n x =================== PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Silver-Lynx.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 27 14:19:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 301E137B423; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06941; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:53:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAslaq6m; Wed Sep 27 13:52:45 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA25048; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:55:09 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200009272055.NAA25048@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Pulse poll at Borland To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 20:55:08 +0000 (GMT) Cc: 1mazda1@phoenixdsl.com (1mazda1), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000927111427.048114f0@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at Sep 27, 2000 11:20:37 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> Yep. Believe it or not, I even have a BeBox in the lab. > > > >> --Brett > > > >WHY??????????? > > It holds the door open. ;-) > > Seriously, it's actually a pretty spiffy machine, with > its Wurlizer-style jukebox LEDs and all. I'd run NetBSD on > it if they could get SMP working, but right now I'd waste > half the CPU if I didn't keep BeOS on it. The BeBox will probably never run an SMP BSD, because BSD SMP work is tied too tightly to the MESI cache coherency model. The dual PPC 603 BeBox cheats. Since the 603 does not have the signal lines for an IPI based cache invalidation or update, the MMU was omitted from the BeBox, and the MMU control lines used to implement SMP capability. In practice, this means that the machine is somewhat slower than it needs to be (by one bus wait cycle per invalidation event), and that it uses an MEI model, not an MESI model. BSD SMP does not have the synchronization points necessary to cope with the additional explicit invalidations required in MEI in order to maintain interprocessor state coherency. PS: FWIW, I'm the one who lobbied JLG, successfully, to release the BeBox programming specifications needed to get a non-Be OS on the thing. It's a damn shame that they quit building the hardware. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 27 16:38:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bishopston.net (h91.reverse.bishopston.net [24.68.200.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE8737B424 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by bishopston.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA22158 for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 00:38:09 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from ) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 00:38:09 +0100 (BST) From: Jamie Jones Message-Id: <200009272338.AAA22158@bishopston.net> To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sex In-Reply-To: <20000927085632.XARY18449.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com@work> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: sex Hmmmm. Is this about the new improved editor - super-ex ? :-) Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 27 16:58:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ranssi.paivola.net (ranssi.paivola.net [194.197.235.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107E737B42C for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ranssi.paivola.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id 691862C906; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 02:58:33 +0300 (EEST) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 02:58:33 +0300 From: Heikki Paatela To: Jamie Jones Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sex Message-ID: <20000928025833.A45483@ranssi.paivola.net> References: <20000927085632.XARY18449.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com@work> <200009272338.AAA22158@bishopston.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200009272338.AAA22158@bishopston.net>; from jamie@bishopston.net on Thu, Sep 28, 2000 at 12:38:09AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Sep 28, 2000 at 12:38:09AM +0100, Jamie Jones wrote: > > Subject: sex > Hmmmm. Is this about the new improved editor - super-ex ? :-) But Lars Wirzenius already wrote sex, Simple editor for X. Just noticed it's not yet in ports, so maybe someone should send-pr, http://liw.iki.fi/liw/programs/ :) -- Heikki Paatela To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 27 20:58:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD6D037B424; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 20:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 13eUzm-0000PS-00; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:08:30 -0600 Message-ID: <39D2C43E.1242845B@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:08:30 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.1-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Clark Cc: jswarner@uswest.net, tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Just Imagine.. References: <200009270307.UAA01026@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Clark wrote: > > Terry, > I spent a few minutes with a co-worker the other day, > and she proceeded to tell me a story about how the sparc > design (out of Berkeley) competed with the MIPS design (out > of Stanford) for a while. > Being the lore-meister you are, have you any pointers > to reading material of this sort? "Computer Architecture : A Quantitative Approach" by Hennessy and Patterson? They were the designers of the SPARC and MIPS architectures. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 28 13: 3:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0BCC37B422; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA69616; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:03:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD won't run on newer IBM laptops From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 28 Sep 2000 22:03:17 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 30 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [bcc: to -mobile and -chat] The BIOS on newer IBM laptops freezes solid when it finds a FreeBSD partition (what we call a slice) on the harddisk (apparently because it thinks it's a suspend partition and tries to read it). IBM tech support had the following to say about this (after a longish struggle to make them admit the problem existed): > There may be a future update to the BIOS of this machine > that will allow the machine to recognize the 165 partition > type. I've been told that at a minimum they will at least > allow the machine to be booted up without freezing. I > would setup a profile on the IBM Support website > (http://www.pc.ibm.com/support) to be notified when future > updates are available. > > Thank you for using the IBM Online Assistant. > > Tim Zwick So, everybody out there who has an IBM laptop or is considering acquiring one, let them know this is unacceptable. Email or phone IBM Tech Support (See http://www.pc.ibm.com/qtechinfo/MIGR-4HWSE3.html for a list of call centers around the world) and complain; and make sure your retailer knows about the problem, and knows that you won't buy an IBM ThinkPad until the problem is solved. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 28 15:13:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7024A37B423; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA337266; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:13:25 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:13:25 -0400 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: FreeBSD won't run on newer IBM laptops Cc: jon@spock.org, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:03 PM +0200 9/28/00, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >[bcc: to -mobile and -chat] As is mine... >The BIOS on newer IBM laptops freezes solid when it finds a >FreeBSD partition (what we call a slice) on the harddisk >(apparently because it thinks it's a suspend partition and >tries to read it). IBM tech support had the following to say >about this (after a longish struggle to make them admit the >problem existed): Here at RPI, the freshman laptop is the new IBM ThinkPad T20. Some people on campus have also bought the A20. As far as I am aware, once we got a driver for the new ethernet card which was in our T20, we have no problem installing and running FreeBSD on it. I know we have at least 30-40 students on campus who are running this way on T20's. Maybe 1 or 2 who are running on A20's. I have noticed the reports from people in freebsd-questions about problems with the T20 being completely unusable after installing freebsd. My best guess is that in our case, all our students would be running freebsd in a dual-boot situation. Many classes here use software which is included in the initial Win98 install that we have for students, and it would be foolish (for our students) to completely remove Win98. So, the first partition remains the win98 partition, and we install freebsd into a second partition that we create via PartitionMagic. I encourage people to voice their opinions with IBM, of course, but if you already OWN a T20, and you would like to use it with freebsd, then you might want to try setting it up with a dual- boot configuration. My second guess is that we (RPI) were just plain lucky... :-) > > There may be a future update to the BIOS of this > > machine that will allow the machine to recognize > > the 165 partition type. I've been told that at a > > minimum they will at least allow the machine to be > > booted up without freezing. Does this effect partition-types other than 165? Has anyone tried a dedicated OpenBSD, NetBSD, or even BeOS install on a T20? (just to see if those partition types also confuse the BIOS). It might be that we should not say "recognize type 165", but instead should say "recognize a WINDOWS partition, and if there IS NO WINDOWS partition, then do not look for a windows-suspension partition". --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 28 15:54:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08DCF37B42C for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26554; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000928165200.04688b90@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:54:10 -0600 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD won't run on newer IBM laptops In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 02:03 PM 9/28/2000, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >The BIOS on newer IBM laptops freezes solid when it finds a FreeBSD >partition (what we call a slice) on the harddisk (apparently because >it thinks it's a suspend partition and tries to read it). Of course, they wouldn't dare do this to Linux; only BSD. For those in the US, the number is 800-772-2227 and then press "2" twice. Ask for the technical support "team leader." The person to whom I spoke was completely clueless. He had not heard of FreeBSD or any of the BSDs for that matter. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 28 18:49:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from angmar.mel.vet.com.au (angmar.mel.vet.com.au [203.103.154.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F1C37B423 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anduril.mel.vet.com.au (anduril.mel.vet.com.au [203.103.154.58]) by angmar.mel.vet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id F41FF5A334; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:49:15 +1100 (EST) Received: (from ulmo@localhost) by anduril.mel.vet.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14423; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:49:05 +1100 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:49:05 +1100 From: "Lachlan O'Dea" To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD won't run on newer IBM laptops Message-ID: <20000929124904.B14341@vet.com.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.9i In-Reply-To: ; from drosih@rpi.edu on Thu, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:13:25PM -0400 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:13:25PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: [ dual boot works for RPI ] > I encourage people to voice their opinions with IBM, of course, > but if you already OWN a T20, and you would like to use it with > freebsd, then you might want to try setting it up with a dual- > boot configuration. > > My second guess is that we (RPI) were just plain lucky... :-) It sounds like you were lucky. I spent a great deal of time trying to get FreeBSD working on my T20. I was fortunate that a colleague had a 600E, so whenever it refused to boot, I swapped the hard drive into the 600E and used a sector editor to remove the FreeBSD slice (yes, this was very laborious). The machine came with Windows 2000 installed, and I was trying to install FreeBSD as the second OS. I tried both the FreeBSD boot manager and partition magic, but it simply would not work. > It might be that we should not say "recognize type 165", > but instead should say "recognize a WINDOWS partition, > and if there IS NO WINDOWS partition, then do not look > for a windows-suspension partition". Ahh, so that was the problem. I had noticed that it was not just the partition type that mattered. If you make a normal FAT partition and manually change the type to 165 the machine will still boot. The partition actually needed to have FreeBSD installed on it for the problem to occur. I also tried installing FreeBSD and changing the partition type to 255, and the machine would not boot. So it seems any "unusual" partition type could potentially have a problem. I also tried installing FreeBSD and then changing the partition type to NTFS. The BIOS then booted happily, but the FreeBSD bootloader didn't get past first base. Anyway, after spending hours on this, I ended up taking the quick and easy path and put Redhat 6.2 on it. :-((( -- Lachlan O'Dea Computer Associates Pty Ltd Webmaster Vet - Anti-Virus Software http://www.vet.com.au/ Vet 10.2 Forever! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Sep 29 11:19:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0990437B424 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA124966; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 14:19:30 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000929124904.B14341@vet.com.au> References: <20000929124904.B14341@vet.com.au> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 14:19:29 -0400 To: "Lachlan O'Dea" From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: FreeBSD won't run on newer IBM laptops Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:49 PM +1100 9/29/00, Lachlan O'Dea wrote: >On Thu, Sep 28, 2000 at 06:13:25PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > >[ dual boot works for RPI ] > > > I encourage people to voice their opinions with IBM, of course, > > but if you already OWN a T20, and you would like to use it with > > freebsd, then you might want to try setting it up with a dual- > > boot configuration. > > > > My second guess is that we (RPI) were just plain lucky... :-) > >It sounds like you were lucky. I spent a great deal of time >trying to get FreeBSD working on my T20. I was fortunate that a >colleague had a 600E, so whenever it refused to boot, I swapped >the hard drive into the 600E and used a sector editor to remove >the FreeBSD slice (yes, this was very laborious). > >The machine came with Windows 2000 installed, and I was trying >to install FreeBSD as the second OS. I tried both the FreeBSD >boot manager and partition magic, but it simply would not work. For what it's worth, our laptops came with Win98 on it. I just say that in case it's something about Win98 vs Win2k configs. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Sep 29 21:37:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEF437B503; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00333; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200009300439.VAA00333@implode.root.com> To: advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: New download record for ftp.freesoftware.com From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:39:49 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FYI, this just went out on PRNewswire... INTERNET'S BUSIEST OPENSOURCE SOFTWARE ARCHIVE SETS NEW DOWNLOAD RECORD Portland, OR, September 29, 2000 TeraSolutions, Inc. and Lightning Internet Services announced today that a popular OpenSource software archive at ftp.freesoftware.com, which was built and maintained by TeraSolutions, Inc., has surpassed the two trillion bytes (two terabytes) milestone of files downloaded per day from a single server machine. The new record was set after the simultaneous releases of Red Hat Linux 7.0 and FreeBSD 4.1.1, two very popular free operating systems for Intel Architecture computers. "We're very pleased to have servers that we built, running the FreeBSD operating system, set new milestones like this. It really shows just how well our large servers can perform in real-world situations using freely available software", said David Greenman, TeraSolutions' President and co-founder. "Equally impressive is the server's stability. It was pumping out upwards of 300 million bits per second to over 3000 users at a time for the past several days without a glitch and has been operating crash-free under similarly high loads for nearly two months now." The server machine was installed earlier this year at Lightning Internet Services' co-location facility in New York City. "Lightning is very excited about this achievement and demonstrates that our network can easily support the likes of Linux and FreeBSD. While Lightning continues to be a leader in providing network services, bandwidth and co-location facilities to ISP's, carriers, and content providers, this event clearly validates our network performance and reliability", states Steve Nash, Lightning's Director of Engineering. Reid Fishler, President and founder of Lightning adds, "We are happy to be working with TeraSolutions and supporting the efforts of Linux and FreeBSD to revolutionize the OS environment." Based in Portland, Oregon, TeraSolutions is a manufacturer of high reliability, high performance rack-mount Internet server and RAID storage systems. The company specializes in building the highest traffic Internet servers in the world and is a leading supplier of RAID storage systems to Internet content providers and ISP's. TeraSolutions was founded in 1999 by FreeBSD co-founder David Greenman and industry veteran Marc Frajola. For more information, visit www.terasolutions.com, contact them directly at +1 503 288 9544, or email info@terasolutions.com. Lightning Internet Services (New York) is a leading provider of Internet connectivity and sophisticated network solutions to small and medium size businesses and other ISP's. Lightning was recently selected as one of the Top 5 Rising Stars representing the fastest growing technology companies on Long Island, N.Y. at the Fast 50 Awards presented by Deloitte & Touche. Lightning provides businesses with a comprehensive range of value-added products and services such as xDSL Internet service, Virtual Private Networks, high-speed network access, consulting, and co-location services. Lightning's array of expertise is designed for businesses to take advantage of their corporate networks and leverage the Internet to effectively grow their on-line business strategy and integrate communication services. For further information about Lightning Internet Services, LLC, please contact Chris Kern at (800) 845-0146, visit http://www.lightning.net/ or email chrisk@lightning.net. -DG David Greenman Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message