From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 7: 5:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8E3B737B503 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 07:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 40244 invoked by alias); 1 Oct 2000 14:05:50 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 40225 invoked by uid 0); 1 Oct 2000 14:05:49 -0000 Received: from badialup228.slkc.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (63.225.236.228) by slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2000 14:05:49 -0000 Message-ID: <39D743C3.4BBDC6F5@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 08:01:40 -0600 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Regarding the long thread that ensued, a while back, after I posted and questioned the possibility of a BSD magazine in print....below is a response I got from one of the editors of Linux Magazine. Why would advertising be such a big problem, since most applications that are made for Linux, will run on *BSD? What products are made for Linux exclusively and won't run on *BSD? Joe Linux Magazine Editors wrote: > > > I agree with you that a FreeBSD magazine would be a really cool idea, and > that there are a substantial number of readers who would support it. > > The problem is the other side of the equation -- advertisers. > Unfortunately, there are not enough companies that make products for BSD > and that would want to advertise those products to support a publication. > > However, don't despair. We are launching a new publication called "Open > Source Developer's Journal", and there will be articles about BSD in that > magazine. The first issue contains a piece on the FreeBSD process > schedualer. > > Anyway, I appreciate your comments about Linux Mag, and I hope that we are > able to provide you and the rest of the BSD community with intersting and > worthwhile publications, even if we can't launch a magazine dedicated > solely to BSD. > -- FreeBSD = The Power to Serve ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 10:55:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DD0E37B503 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 10:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e91HtQJ16715 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 10:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 10:55:26 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's a guy distributing our /etc/security "ported to Linux" he has GPL'd the script and not included src/COPYRIGHT with this distribution. http://halliday.wl.vg/scripts/ I don't want anyone to flame the guy to death, I just want to know if this is ok or not? My understanding is that it's ok to GPL our code so long as the original copyright remains intact. So two questions: So can he GPL it? Must he add the src/COPYRIGHT? -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 15:40:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F54F37B502; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA58875; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:40:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:40:41 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Joe Warner Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? Message-ID: <20001001184041.A58830@blackhelicopters.org> References: <39D743C3.4BBDC6F5@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <39D743C3.4BBDC6F5@uswest.net>; from jswarner@uswest.net on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:01:40AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG While advertisers do make products that *run* on BSD, they don't advertise their products as being usable on BSD. All the difference. On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:01:40AM -0600, Joe Warner wrote: > > Regarding the long thread that ensued, a while back, after I posted and > questioned the possibility of a BSD magazine in print....below is a > response I got from one of the editors of Linux Magazine. > > Why would advertising be such a big problem, since most applications > that are made for Linux, will run on *BSD? What products are > made for Linux exclusively and won't run on *BSD? > > Joe > > > Linux Magazine Editors wrote: > > > > > > > I agree with you that a FreeBSD magazine would be a really cool idea, and > > > that there are a substantial number of readers who would support it. > > > > The problem is the other side of the equation -- advertisers. > > Unfortunately, there are not enough companies that make products for BSD > > > and that would want to advertise those products to support a publication. > > > > > However, don't despair. We are launching a new publication called "Open > > Source Developer's Journal", and there will be articles about BSD in that > > > magazine. The first issue contains a piece on the FreeBSD process > > schedualer. > > > > Anyway, I appreciate your comments about Linux Mag, and I hope that we > are > > able to provide you and the rest of the BSD community with intersting and > > > worthwhile publications, even if we can't launch a magazine dedicated > > solely to BSD. > > > > -- > > FreeBSD = The Power to Serve > ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 15:50:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from puck.firepipe.net (mcut-b-167.resnet.purdue.edu [128.211.209.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB94D37B503 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by puck.firepipe.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BDECC1920; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:50:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:50:09 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001001175009.C613@puck.firepipe.net> Reply-To: Will Andrews Mail-Followup-To: Will Andrews , Alfred Perlstein , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 10:55:26AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 10:55:26AM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > I don't want anyone to flame the guy to death, I just want to know > if this is ok or not? My understanding is that it's ok to GPL > our code so long as the original copyright remains intact. > > So two questions: > So can he GPL it? > Must he add the src/COPYRIGHT? He is violating the original copyright and committing a serious crime (copyright infringment). Tell him he better put the copyright back in, or something furious will happen. -- Will Andrews - Physics Computer Network wench The Universal Answer to All Problems - "It has something to do with physics." -- Comic on door of Room 240, Physics Building, Purdue University To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 16:15:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10CB337B502 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 16:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parish ([62.253.85.6]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001001231525.TMN19709.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@parish>; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 00:15:25 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e91NFHH00407; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 00:15:17 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 00:15:16 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Will Andrews Cc: Alfred Perlstein , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001002001516.B252@parish> References: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001001175009.C613@puck.firepipe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001001175009.C613@puck.firepipe.net>; from will@physics.purdue.edu on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 05:50:09PM -0500 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 05:50:09PM -0500, Will Andrews wrote: > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 10:55:26AM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > I don't want anyone to flame the guy to death, I just want to know > > if this is ok or not? My understanding is that it's ok to GPL > > our code so long as the original copyright remains intact. > > > > So two questions: > > So can he GPL it? > > Must he add the src/COPYRIGHT? > > He is violating the original copyright and committing a serious crime > (copyright infringment). Is that true though because the file itself doesn't contain a copyright notice (at least not in RELENG_4)? > Tell him he better put the copyright back in, > or something furious will happen. > > -- > Will Andrews - Physics Computer Network wench > The Universal Answer to All Problems - "It has something to do with physics." > -- Comic on door of Room 240, Physics Building, Purdue University > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- 4.4 - The number of the Beastie ________________________________________________________________ 51.44°N FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org 2.057°W My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark mailto:marko@freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 16:34:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D67A737B502; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 16:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e91NYAA24409; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 16:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 16:34:10 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Mark Ovens Cc: Will Andrews , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001001163410.H27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001001175009.C613@puck.firepipe.net> <20001002001516.B252@parish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20001002001516.B252@parish>; from marko@freebsd.org on Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 12:15:16AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Mark Ovens [001001 16:15] wrote: > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 05:50:09PM -0500, Will Andrews wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 10:55:26AM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > I don't want anyone to flame the guy to death, I just want to know > > > if this is ok or not? My understanding is that it's ok to GPL > > > our code so long as the original copyright remains intact. > > > > > > So two questions: > > > So can he GPL it? > > > Must he add the src/COPYRIGHT? > > > > He is violating the original copyright and committing a serious crime > > (copyright infringment). > > Is that true though because the file itself doesn't contain a copyright > notice (at least not in RELENG_4)? Like I said in the original email, I'm pretty sure src/COPYRIGHT covers all files originally imported into the repository. All of the documentation and software included in the 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite Releases is copyrighted by The Regents of the University of California. Since /etc/security came in from the intial CVS checkin you'd think it would apply. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 16:47:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from puck.firepipe.net (mcut-b-167.resnet.purdue.edu [128.211.209.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4227537B502; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 16:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by puck.firepipe.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7655E1915; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:47:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:47:30 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Mark Ovens , Will Andrews , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001001184730.G613@puck.firepipe.net> Reply-To: Will Andrews Mail-Followup-To: Will Andrews , Alfred Perlstein , Mark Ovens , advocacy@freebsd.org References: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001001175009.C613@puck.firepipe.net> <20001002001516.B252@parish> <20001001163410.H27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001001163410.H27736@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 04:34:10PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 04:34:10PM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Since /etc/security came in from the intial CVS checkin you'd think > it would apply. Maybe they are unaware that there is a copyright on the file. Did you ask them yet? -- Will Andrews - Physics Computer Network wench The Universal Answer to All Problems - "It has something to do with physics." -- Comic on door of Room 240, Physics Building, Purdue University To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 17: 6:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE5637B66E; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e9205FY25172; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:05:15 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Will Andrews , Mark Ovens , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001001170515.I27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001001175009.C613@puck.firepipe.net> <20001002001516.B252@parish> <20001001163410.H27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001001184730.G613@puck.firepipe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20001001184730.G613@puck.firepipe.net>; from will@physics.purdue.edu on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 06:47:30PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Will Andrews [001001 16:47] wrote: > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 04:34:10PM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Since /etc/security came in from the intial CVS checkin you'd think > > it would apply. > > Maybe they are unaware that there is a copyright on the file. Did you > ask them yet? Yes, I emailed the author however, I've not gotten anything back yet. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 17: 7:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D9FE37B684; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id RAA19293; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:06:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:06:54 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001001170653.A15719@freefall.freebsd.org> References: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 10:55:26AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 10:55:26AM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > There's a guy distributing our /etc/security "ported to Linux" he > has GPL'd the script and not included src/COPYRIGHT with this > distribution. > > http://halliday.wl.vg/scripts/ > > I don't want anyone to flame the guy to death, I just want to know > if this is ok or not? My understanding is that it's ok to GPL > our code so long as the original copyright remains intact. > > So two questions: > So can he GPL it? > Must he add the src/COPYRIGHT? Well, you probably know this by now, but the page now lists: Open Source is wonderful, because software is improved by the knowledge and expertise of many people. Because of that I give me my thanks and appreciate to the following. Alfred Perlstein, helped change the license to BSD, which was required because it originally was under BSD license. And helped me make sure it generally complied. Kris -- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 17:13:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D283837B502; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 41BF81C64; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:13:28 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Alfred Perlstein , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001001201328.D38472@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001001170653.A15719@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20001001170653.A15719@freefall.freebsd.org>; from kris@FreeBSD.org on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 05:06:54PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 05:06:54PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Well, you probably know this by now, but the page now lists: > > Open Source is wonderful, because software is improved by the > knowledge and expertise of many people. Because of that I give me my > thanks and appreciate to the following. > > Alfred Perlstein, helped change the license to BSD, which was required > because it originally was under BSD license. And helped me make sure > it generally complied. Bhahahahahah.. all this because I saw 'GPL' and 'FreeBSD' in close proximity in the freshmeat daily announcements.. -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect, BOFH / Chimes, Inc. billf@chimesnet.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 17:15:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net (mail.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 16C7837B502 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 23576 invoked by alias); 2 Oct 2000 00:15:37 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 23549 invoked by uid 0); 2 Oct 2000 00:15:36 -0000 Received: from premiumb64.slkc.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (207.224.203.64) by mail.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2000 00:15:36 -0000 Message-ID: <39D7D2AE.3EF062CB@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 18:11:26 -0600 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Lucas Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? References: <39D743C3.4BBDC6F5@uswest.net> <20001001184041.A58830@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So then...it's the advertisers we should be contacting and not just the publishers, right? Michael Lucas wrote: > While advertisers do make products that *run* on BSD, they don't > advertise their products as being usable on BSD. All the difference. > > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:01:40AM -0600, Joe Warner wrote: > > > > Regarding the long thread that ensued, a while back, after I posted and > > questioned the possibility of a BSD magazine in print....below is a > > response I got from one of the editors of Linux Magazine. > > > > Why would advertising be such a big problem, since most applications > > that are made for Linux, will run on *BSD? What products are > > made for Linux exclusively and won't run on *BSD? > > > > Joe > > > > > > Linux Magazine Editors wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with you that a FreeBSD magazine would be a really cool idea, and > > > > > that there are a substantial number of readers who would support it. > > > > > > The problem is the other side of the equation -- advertisers. > > > Unfortunately, there are not enough companies that make products for BSD > > > > > and that would want to advertise those products to support a publication. > > > > > > > > However, don't despair. We are launching a new publication called "Open > > > Source Developer's Journal", and there will be articles about BSD in that > > > > > magazine. The first issue contains a piece on the FreeBSD process > > > schedualer. > > > > > > Anyway, I appreciate your comments about Linux Mag, and I hope that we > > are > > > able to provide you and the rest of the BSD community with intersting and > > > > > worthwhile publications, even if we can't launch a magazine dedicated > > > solely to BSD. > > > > > > > -- > > > > FreeBSD = The Power to Serve > > ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > -- > Michael Lucas > mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ > Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons -- FreeBSD = The Power to Serve ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 19:20:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5270737B503 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3CE76E2C49 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip57.kingston.dialup.canada.psi.net ([154.5.64.57]) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 13fvBI-0001zv-00 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 22:18:16 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 22:21:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Dru To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: sort of advocacy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is the funniest site I've seen in a long time; thank god they won't be shipping a msbsd ;) http://www.mslinux.org/ It certainly adds a whole new meaning to the acronym GPL.... Dru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 19:34:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx-a.qnet.com (mx-a.qnet.com [209.221.198.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB7337B503; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:34:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cello.qnet.com (stork@cello.qnet.com [209.221.198.10]) by mx-a.qnet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26782; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (stork@localhost) by cello.qnet.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA29521; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:33:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: cello.qnet.com: stork owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:33:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Heredity Choice To: Joe Warner Cc: Michael Lucas , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? In-Reply-To: <39D7D2AE.3EF062CB@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't see many computer magazines of any kind on the newsstands anymore. I think most people who are interested read them online. Paul Smith To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 20:26: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5796337B66D; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e923PiU55618; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:25:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Mark Ovens , Will Andrews , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? In-Reply-To: Message from Alfred Perlstein of "Sun, 01 Oct 2000 16:34:10 PDT." <20001001163410.H27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 20:25:44 -0700 Message-ID: <55614.970457144@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Like I said in the original email, I'm pretty sure src/COPYRIGHT > covers all files originally imported into the repository. I'm afraid that such "blanket coverage" would not be even remotely legal, according to the Bern convention or otherwise. All files must bear the appropriate rcopyright text, especially given the fact that we mix and match copyrights under /usr/src - /usr/src/gnu is obviously not covered by src/COPYRIGHT for example. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 20:28:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06FB737B503; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 826191C64; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:28:12 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Mark Ovens , Will Andrews , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001001232812.F38472@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: <55614.970457144@winston.osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <55614.970457144@winston.osd.bsdi.com>; from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:25:44PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:25:44PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > I'm afraid that such "blanket coverage" would not be even remotely > legal, according to the Bern convention or otherwise. All files must > bear the appropriate rcopyright text, especially given the fact that > we mix and match copyrights under /usr/src - /usr/src/gnu is obviously > not covered by src/COPYRIGHT for example. So why do we even have src/COPYRIGHT, then? To copyright itself? -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect, BOFH / Chimes, Inc. billf@chimesnet.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 20:36:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD4637B502; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e923a2U55714; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:36:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Mark Ovens , Will Andrews , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? In-Reply-To: Message from Bill Fumerola of "Sun, 01 Oct 2000 23:28:12 EDT." <20001001232812.F38472@jade.chc-chimes.com> Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 20:36:02 -0700 Message-ID: <55711.970457762@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:25:44PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > > I'm afraid that such "blanket coverage" would not be even remotely > > legal, according to the Bern convention or otherwise. All files must > > bear the appropriate rcopyright text, especially given the fact that > > we mix and match copyrights under /usr/src - /usr/src/gnu is obviously > > not covered by src/COPYRIGHT for example. > > So why do we even have src/COPYRIGHT, then? To copyright itself? I've always wondered that myself. Go do a grep on all our .c files and you'll find that far more of them contain copyright lines than don't, so even if it was intended as "a place to point" it certainly never fulfilled that purpose. I think it was one of those "seemed like a good idea at the time" things. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 20:38:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79F7F37B503; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B803E1C64; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:38:12 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Mark Ovens , Will Andrews , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001001233812.H38472@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: <55711.970457762@winston.osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <55711.970457762@winston.osd.bsdi.com>; from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:36:02PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:36:02PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > I've always wondered that myself. Go do a grep on all our .c files > and you'll find that far more of them contain copyright lines than > don't, so even if it was intended as "a place to point" it certainly > never fulfilled that purpose. I think it was one of those "seemed > like a good idea at the time" things. Agreed. We already have /usr/src/share/examples/etc/bsd-style-copyright... -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect, BOFH / Chimes, Inc. billf@chimesnet.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 20:55:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.ovis.net (ns1.ovis.net [207.0.147.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF3437B502; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ovis.net (s39.pm5.ovis.net [207.0.147.105]) by ns1.ovis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32113; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:54:30 -0400 Message-ID: <39D8091B.942E47ED@ovis.net> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 00:03:40 -0400 From: Steve Kudlak Reply-To: chromexa@ovis.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD ezn/58/n (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Heredity Choice Cc: Joe Warner , Michael Lucas , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Bridgette Burke Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Heredity Choice wrote: > I don't see many computer magazines of any kind on the newsstands anymore. > I think most people who are interested read them online. > > Paul Smith > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Well here in Wheeling, WV one has to go into the local porn bookstore which has a non-porn section and buy things like electronic and computer type magazines except for the real biggie PC mags. Those one can get at the local Kroger's. A journey to Ohio (just across the river) will get you a better selection. Here WWF and Studio Wrestling Magazines dominate the local newstands along with cooking and those women's advice type of magazines. A creative attempt might fly, I mean one could have a BSD magazine and have it have a funny cover. You'd get a one pass buy from Christians who would buy just to try to find out what that little devil was up to, and doesn't fork sound vaguely racy in American English Slang and what about root for Australian English.:) But if Alternative Press, which isn't bad, but is a Marilyn Manson hagiography can survivea BSD slick (glossy stock magazine) might make it. Especially if it had some of those nice tutorials in it. Have Fun, Sends Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 21: 2:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.thuntek.net (mail2.thuntek.net [206.206.98.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA65937B66D for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Silver-Lynx.com (abq-145.thuntek.net [207.66.52.145]) by mail2.thuntek.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e921QWP70631; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:26:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Message-ID: <39D7E47E.C4C38C14@Silver-Lynx.com> Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:27:26 -0600 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: Don@Silver-Lynx.com Organization: Silver Lynx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.5-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stolen script? References: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001001170653.A15719@freefall.freebsd.org> <20001001201328.D38472@jade.chc-chimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 05:06:54PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > Well, you probably know this by now, but the page now lists: > > > > Open Source is wonderful, because software is improved by the > > knowledge and expertise of many people. Because of that I give me my > > thanks and appreciate to the following. > > > > Alfred Perlstein, helped change the license to BSD, which was required > > because it originally was under BSD license. And helped me make sure > > it generally complied. > > Bhahahahahah.. all this because I saw 'GPL' and 'FreeBSD' in close > proximity in the freshmeat daily announcements.. > Which of course is indicative of the nature of the Other crowd... play whatever games you want until you get caught and then plead childlike innocence. John Taylor Gatto's new book, "The Underground History of American Education" has a lot to say about the causes of relativism in America today. Highly recommended, available from http://www.laissezfairebooks.com! -- Donald Wilde "Linking Minds and Micros" ================= S i l v e r L y n x =================== PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Silver-Lynx.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 1 21:37:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F2C37B66C; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e924bIL01853; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:37:18 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: Bill Fumerola , Mark Ovens , Will Andrews , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001001213718.N27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <55711.970457762@winston.osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <55711.970457762@winston.osd.bsdi.com>; from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:36:02PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Jordan Hubbard [001001 20:36] wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:25:44PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > > > > I'm afraid that such "blanket coverage" would not be even remotely > > > legal, according to the Bern convention or otherwise. All files must > > > bear the appropriate rcopyright text, especially given the fact that > > > we mix and match copyrights under /usr/src - /usr/src/gnu is obviously > > > not covered by src/COPYRIGHT for example. src/COPYRIGHT is pretty clear about what code it covers, if you had taken the time to read it before responding you would have seen my initial point. > > > > So why do we even have src/COPYRIGHT, then? To copyright itself? > > I've always wondered that myself. Go do a grep on all our .c files > and you'll find that far more of them contain copyright lines than > don't, so even if it was intended as "a place to point" it certainly > never fulfilled that purpose. I think it was one of those "seemed > like a good idea at the time" things. I think this roll over and play dead stance about the issue is completely wrong. The BSD license "give credit where credit is do" is about as free as it can get while still forcing some attribution back to the authors. Simply stated (from src/COPYRIGHT): All of the documentation and software included in the 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite Releases is copyrighted by The Regents of the University of California. Copyright 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. ...yadda yadda The code is imported from 386BSD, you didn't write etc/security did you? Maybe you don't want to enforce the copyright, but I don't think it's your place to decide. How willing would you be to toss out my copyright based on a technicality? I certainly think people shouldn't be able to take code from our repo, slap the GPL on it and call it thier own. I also don't think it's in your best interest to weaken our license, you should know how these things work, if my code was the next thing to be ripped and then somehow your position about the situation was cited as a reason for it being OK, well that would be a pretty upsetting trend to start. I'm not trying to advocate someone call in the lawyers here, just that someone committing such blatent theft gets looked down on and a polite email sent to remind them of what the right thing to do is. No lawyers, just some common courtesy. thanks, -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 4:27:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CF24137B67A for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 04:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 55104 invoked by alias); 2 Oct 2000 11:27:08 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 55073 invoked by uid 0); 2 Oct 2000 11:27:07 -0000 Received: from badialup87.slkc.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (63.225.236.87) by slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2000 11:27:07 -0000 Message-ID: <39D87012.43AA7EF5@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 05:22:58 -0600 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Heredity Choice Cc: Michael Lucas , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I can walk into any Borders or Barnes and Noble book stores and find PC Magazine, Wired Magazine, Sysadmin Magazine, Linux Journal and Linux Magazine, to name a few. Heck, at Barnes and Noble, I can usually find a few copies of the 2600 Hackers Quarterly with their "Free Kevin" slogans on the cover. Well, not any more, since he got out of jail. That one usually sells out the quickest. Joe Heredity Choice wrote: > I don't see many computer magazines of any kind on the newsstands anymore. > I think most people who are interested read them online. > > Paul Smith -- FreeBSD = The Power to Serve ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 4:55:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4089237B503; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 04:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA60881; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:55:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:55:29 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Joe Warner Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? Message-ID: <20001002075529.B60850@blackhelicopters.org> References: <39D743C3.4BBDC6F5@uswest.net> <20001001184041.A58830@blackhelicopters.org> <39D7D2AE.3EF062CB@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <39D7D2AE.3EF062CB@uswest.net>; from jswarner@uswest.net on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 06:11:26PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Software publishers are not going to arbitrarily add support for a product. Yes, we know it works, but that's very different from saying it's supported. That's why the Loki Games thing was news; we all know that you could run those games on BSD, but Loki agreed to support it, and to label it as BSD-compatible. When we get enough vendors, the magazine will happen. We'll get enough vendors when there's enough publicity. A magazine would be great for publicity. Sort of a three-way chicken-and egg problem; pick the part you want to attack, and get to work. :) On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 06:11:26PM -0600, Joe Warner wrote: > So then...it's the advertisers we should be contacting and not just > the publishers, right? > > > Michael Lucas wrote: > > > While advertisers do make products that *run* on BSD, they don't > > advertise their products as being usable on BSD. All the difference. > > > > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:01:40AM -0600, Joe Warner wrote: > > > > > > Regarding the long thread that ensued, a while back, after I posted and > > > questioned the possibility of a BSD magazine in print....below is a > > > response I got from one of the editors of Linux Magazine. > > > > > > Why would advertising be such a big problem, since most applications > > > that are made for Linux, will run on *BSD? What products are > > > made for Linux exclusively and won't run on *BSD? > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > Linux Magazine Editors wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with you that a FreeBSD magazine would be a really cool idea, and > > > > > > > that there are a substantial number of readers who would support it. > > > > > > > > The problem is the other side of the equation -- advertisers. > > > > Unfortunately, there are not enough companies that make products for BSD > > > > > > > and that would want to advertise those products to support a publication. > > > > > > > > > > > However, don't despair. We are launching a new publication called "Open > > > > Source Developer's Journal", and there will be articles about BSD in that > > > > > > > magazine. The first issue contains a piece on the FreeBSD process > > > > schedualer. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I appreciate your comments about Linux Mag, and I hope that we > > > are > > > > able to provide you and the rest of the BSD community with intersting and > > > > > > > worthwhile publications, even if we can't launch a magazine dedicated > > > > solely to BSD. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > FreeBSD = The Power to Serve > > > ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > > -- > > Michael Lucas > > mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org > > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ > > Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > -- > > FreeBSD = The Power to Serve > ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! > -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 9:54: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 980E037B66C; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e92GrbU58135; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:53:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Bill Fumerola , Mark Ovens , Will Andrews , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? In-Reply-To: Message from Alfred Perlstein of "Sun, 01 Oct 2000 21:37:18 PDT." <20001001213718.N27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 09:53:36 -0700 Message-ID: <58131.970505616@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > src/COPYRIGHT is pretty clear about what code it covers, if you had > taken the time to read it before responding you would have seen my > initial point. I think you're suffering from simple naivete about how copyrights work, Albert. I don't give a flying frig what src/COPYRIGHT claims to cover, there are more sweeping rules which cover how the process of copyrighting works and one is forced to be very explicit in order to conform to those rules. src/COPYRIGHT could claim to cover all current and derivative rights for every committer on earth and that still wouldn't make it right. > I think this roll over and play dead stance about the issue is > completely wrong. The BSD license "give credit where credit is > do" is about as free as it can get while still forcing some > attribution back to the authors. I think you've completely and totally missed the point. This has nothing to do with rolling over, this has to do with LEGALITY and the fact that you can't simply drop one file into a collection of files and say "Done!" when it comes to copyrights. What happens when one file wanders off on its own and then is passed to a third party? That third party has no way of knowing where it came from originally and thus couldn't conform to src/COPYRIGHT even if they wanted to. That's why you're supposed to put the notice ON THE FILE ITSELF and that should simple enough for you to understand that this whole sorry exchange can now hopefully come to a close. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 11:54:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB72C37B502 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parish ([62.253.88.161]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001002170640.FCZF27285.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@parish>; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:06:40 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e92H6TJ01549; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:06:29 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:06:08 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Will Andrews , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001002180608.A252@parish> References: <55614.970457144@winston.osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <55614.970457144@winston.osd.bsdi.com>; from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:25:44PM -0700 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:25:44PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > Like I said in the original email, I'm pretty sure src/COPYRIGHT > > covers all files originally imported into the repository. > > I'm afraid that such "blanket coverage" would not be even remotely > legal, according to the Bern convention or otherwise. All files must > bear the appropriate rcopyright text, especially given the fact that > we mix and match copyrights under /usr/src - /usr/src/gnu is obviously > not covered by src/COPYRIGHT for example. > Ah thank you. That was what I was wondering. I would imagine that a single, blanket coverage, copyright file would only be valid/legal if all the files it covered were *only* available in a single tarball (and then the copyright would have to be on the tarball "and all files contained therein". > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- 4.4 - The number of the Beastie ________________________________________________________________ 51.44°N FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org 2.057°W My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark mailto:marko@freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 12:32: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA9BF37B66D; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e92JVsG24294; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:31:54 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Mark Ovens Cc: Jordan Hubbard , Will Andrews , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001002123154.T27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <55614.970457144@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <20001002180608.A252@parish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20001002180608.A252@parish>; from marko@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 06:06:08PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Mark Ovens [001002 11:54] wrote: > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:25:44PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > > Like I said in the original email, I'm pretty sure src/COPYRIGHT > > > covers all files originally imported into the repository. > > > > I'm afraid that such "blanket coverage" would not be even remotely > > legal, according to the Bern convention or otherwise. All files must > > bear the appropriate rcopyright text, especially given the fact that > > we mix and match copyrights under /usr/src - /usr/src/gnu is obviously > > not covered by src/COPYRIGHT for example. > > > > Ah thank you. That was what I was wondering. I would imagine that a single, > blanket coverage, copyright file would only be valid/legal if all the files > it covered were *only* available in a single tarball (and then the > copyright would have to be on the tarball "and all files contained > therein". I still think such blatant theft and mis-attribution should be frowned upon. While I'm aware with proper legal representation one could probably say I don't have ownership of my own left foot, it's the spirit of the thing which needs to be maintained. If that involves sending a reminder to someone that attribution is the right thing to do then I see no harm in it. It's not just our code that needs protection, it's the person taking it and calling it thier own. I would be less than impressed if while giving an interview the candidate claimed credit for a slightly modified version of something I know to be in our repository. Last I checked the FSF is very diligent about making sure that not only do all files contain thier standard disclaimer but they are also very careful to update copyright dates before each release is made for each newly touched file. I think this be a good time to assign copyrights to all files missing one to FreeBSD Inc or The FreeBSD Project or BSDi even? I wouldn't have a problem with that as long as it was the standard license (no advert clause of course). -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 12:43:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AF2537B503; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e92Jh4U60057; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:43:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Mark Ovens , Will Andrews , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? In-Reply-To: Message from Alfred Perlstein of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 12:31:54 PDT." <20001002123154.T27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 12:43:04 -0700 Message-ID: <60053.970515784@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I still think such blatant theft and mis-attribution should be > frowned upon. Don't you have any actual work to do? :-) Seriously, if you're interested in doing something more substantive than making facial expressions then go on a witch-hunt for files which lack copyright notice and then either add such notice where it's obvious what the author meant or contact the author in those cases where it's not. THAT would be an activity worthy of everyone's time and attention and Rod Grimes used to do this for us before he got too busy with his business. > I think this be a good time to assign copyrights to all files > missing one to FreeBSD Inc or The FreeBSD Project or BSDi even? And now I think you've completely lost your mind. Do you have any idea how much flammage and distress was caused over in NetBSD land when they attempted to do this with the NetBSD Foundation? I can't even estimate how many months of work were lost due to the energies which were poured into arguing that issue instead of just writing code. Also, neither FreeBSD, Inc. or BSDi want the copyrights even if we did want to go here. The FreeBSD Foundation is supposed to handle issues like this now and if the board of directors over there has any sense, they'll run screaming from this one like it was an Ebola virus. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 12:49:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B7A37B502 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA142204; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:48:04 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1EC8C16BC185D311ACB90008C7C563F3032C97A9@gblon1c3ex1.wcom.co.uk> References: <1EC8C16BC185D311ACB90008C7C563F3032C97A9@gblon1c3ex1.wcom.co.uk> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:48:02 -0400 To: "Dyas, Alex" , "Lachlan O'Dea" From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: RE: FreeBSD won't run on newer IBM laptops Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 9:30 AM +0100 10/2/00, Dyas, Alex wrote: >From: Garance A Drosihn [mailto:drosih@rpi.edu]> wrote: > > > > At 12:49 PM +1100 9/29/00, Lachlan O'Dea wrote: > > > > > >The machine came with Windows 2000 installed, and I was trying > > >to install FreeBSD as the second OS. I tried both the FreeBSD > > >boot manager and partition magic, but it simply would not work. > > > > For what it's worth, our laptops came with Win98 on it. I just > > say that in case it's something about Win98 vs Win2k configs. > >Another 'for what it's worth' : I had a lot of problems getting >FBSD to work with anything more than 64MB RAM on my TP-600, >something I still haven't solved. Might be worth checking this. >Other than that though it's fine :) All the RPI laptops have at LEAST 128 meg in them, so that's not the problem here... :-) For further "for what it's worth" comparisons, here is the configuration of the laptop offered to RPI freshmen: http://www.rpi.edu/dept/cis/web/laptops/Laptops00/specs00.html For FreeBSD and Linux installs, we used partition magic to shrink the Win98 partition, and then installed either Linux or FreeBSD in the space freed up. As I say, we haven't had any problems with FreeBSD installs on our T20's, even though others have had problems with freebsd installs on their T20's or A20's. I am still not sure why we've been so fortunate. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 13: 1:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail3.registeredsite.com (mail3.registeredsite.com [209.35.159.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC38137B503 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.threespace.com ([216.247.134.44]) by mail3.registeredsite.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11284 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:58:53 -0400 Received: from ATLANTA.threespace.com [24.21.224.204] by mail.threespace.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A99E2ABF00E0; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:01:34 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001002155947.017ac838@mail.threespace.com> X-Sender: tech_info@mail.threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:01:41 -0400 To: Freebsd Advocacy From: Technical Information Subject: RE: FreeBSD won't run on newer IBM laptops In-Reply-To: References: < <1EC8C16BC185D311ACB90008C7C563F3032C97A9@gblon1c3ex1.wcom.co.uk> <1EC8C16BC185D311ACB90008C7C563F3032C97A9@gblon1c3ex1.wcom.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just for the record, I just installed FreeBSD 4.1 and Red Hat Linux 6.2 on an IBM ThinkPad A20m without any difficulty. I think it has 128 MB of RAM. At 03:48 PM 10/2/2000, Garance A Drosihn wrote: >At 9:30 AM +0100 10/2/00, Dyas, Alex wrote: >>From: Garance A Drosihn [mailto:drosih@rpi.edu]> wrote: >> > >> > At 12:49 PM +1100 9/29/00, Lachlan O'Dea wrote: >> > > >> > >The machine came with Windows 2000 installed, and I was trying >> > >to install FreeBSD as the second OS. I tried both the FreeBSD >> > >boot manager and partition magic, but it simply would not work. >> > >> > For what it's worth, our laptops came with Win98 on it. I just >> > say that in case it's something about Win98 vs Win2k configs. >> >>Another 'for what it's worth' : I had a lot of problems getting >>FBSD to work with anything more than 64MB RAM on my TP-600, >>something I still haven't solved. Might be worth checking this. >>Other than that though it's fine :) > >All the RPI laptops have at LEAST 128 meg in them, so that's >not the problem here... :-) > >For further "for what it's worth" comparisons, here is the >configuration of the laptop offered to RPI freshmen: > >http://www.rpi.edu/dept/cis/web/laptops/Laptops00/specs00.html > >For FreeBSD and Linux installs, we used partition magic to >shrink the Win98 partition, and then installed either Linux >or FreeBSD in the space freed up. As I say, we haven't had >any problems with FreeBSD installs on our T20's, even though >others have had problems with freebsd installs on their T20's >or A20's. I am still not sure why we've been so fortunate. > > >--- >Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu >Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu >Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 14: 0: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588B737B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA20156; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAqeaqAL; Mon Oct 2 13:55:30 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA10367; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:58:24 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010022058.NAA10367@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? To: mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org (Michael Lucas) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:58:24 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jswarner@uswest.net (Joe Warner), freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001001184041.A58830@blackhelicopters.org> from "Michael Lucas" at Oct 01, 2000 06:40:41 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Why would advertising be such a big problem, since most applications > > that are made for Linux, will run on *BSD? What products are > > made for Linux exclusively and won't run on *BSD? > > While advertisers do make products that *run* on BSD, they don't > advertise their products as being usable on BSD. All the difference. This is wrong. Many companies support BSDI or FreeBSD versions, and have since the glibc2 debacle made it nearly impossible to maintain only a single Linux distribution. A good example is Zend, which builds a PHP optimizer, and distributes 1 FreeBSD version and 3 Linux versions of the same program because of binary incompatability between Linux distributions. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 14: 6:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 994F537B502 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20487; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:07:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA.SaiqN; Mon Oct 2 14:06:31 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA10683; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:06:08 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010022106.OAA10683@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: stolen script? To: bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:06:08 +0000 (GMT) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001001105526.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> from "Alfred Perlstein" at Oct 01, 2000 10:55:26 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > There's a guy distributing our /etc/security "ported to Linux" he > has GPL'd the script and not included src/COPYRIGHT with this > distribution. > > http://halliday.wl.vg/scripts/ > > I don't want anyone to flame the guy to death, I just want to know > if this is ok or not? My understanding is that it's ok to GPL > our code so long as the original copyright remains intact. > > So two questions: > So can he GPL it? > Must he add the src/COPYRIGHT? The code itself can not be GPL'ed, although he can make an aggregation license that's GPL. Even the two clause Berkeley License does not permit him to license the code to other on terms other than that of the original authors. In order for this to apply in his case, he must prepare a set of things, distributed _as_ a set, and be able to demonstrate a better than 10% (minimally) provenance for the works he is agregating (e.g. one can not take vanilla FreeBSD, slap a GPL on it, and call that an aggregation). The 10% number is the legal number established by the U.S. Fifth Circuit Coart of Appeals, an Appellate Court, which has made binding case law to this effect. If he is smart, he will not trust the 10% number, since going to court and finding it to be 9.95% would certainly be a bummer. From a risk perspective, most companies set this number between 20% and 25%, depending on how risk averse their lawyers are. He also _must not_ remove copyright statements from any software, or his license to use said software is void, since the only thing granting him any use of the code at all is the license in the copyright statement on the file. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 14:18:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33C6D37B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00159; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:16:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAsdaOj6; Mon Oct 2 14:16:14 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA10930; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:17:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010022117.OAA10930@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: stolen script? To: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:17:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), marko@FreeBSD.ORG (Mark Ovens), will@physics.purdue.edu (Will Andrews), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <55614.970457144@winston.osd.bsdi.com> from "Jordan Hubbard" at Oct 01, 2000 08:25:44 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Like I said in the original email, I'm pretty sure src/COPYRIGHT > > covers all files originally imported into the repository. > > I'm afraid that such "blanket coverage" would not be even remotely > legal, according to the Bern convention or otherwise. All files must > bear the appropriate rcopyright text, especially given the fact that > we mix and match copyrights under /usr/src - /usr/src/gnu is obviously > not covered by src/COPYRIGHT for example. So I guess you are saying no one can use this file, until there is a license attached to it which grants them the right to use it? Remember also, under Berne, no Copyright notice is required, as was historically required in the U.S. prior to Berne; this is the infamouse "Berne Implied Copyright Clause" that many people objected to, since it could drag things out of the public domain, should someone modify/improve them after the date into which it went into effect. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 14:43:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E8337B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08230; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:43:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAHXaqRp; Mon Oct 2 14:43:07 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA11519; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:42:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010022142.OAA11519@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: stolen script? To: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:42:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), marko@FreeBSD.ORG (Mark Ovens), will@physics.purdue.edu (Will Andrews), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <60053.970515784@winston.osd.bsdi.com> from "Jordan Hubbard" at Oct 02, 2000 12:43:04 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Seriously, if you're interested in doing something more substantive > than making facial expressions then go on a witch-hunt for files which > lack copyright notice and then either add such notice where it's > obvious what the author meant or contact the author in those cases > where it's not. THAT would be an activity worthy of everyone's time > and attention and Rod Grimes used to do this for us before he got too > busy with his business. According to the IBM lawyers who did due dilligence on all of FreeBSD, prior to the Whistle acquisition, the src/COPYRIGHT is all that's necessary and sufficient. These guys are so paranoid that they were asking how much beer would be necessary to buy Poul-Henning off, and how frequently it must be provided, if it was required... we assured them that Poul-Henning was (a) mortal, and (b) even if he could drink a two lawyers under a table, there's only so much beer he could drink before he passed out, which would limit his consumption considerably; then we pointed out that they could always (c) decide they didn't like the code, and trigger the escape clause. These are the same people who made us remove squid prior to sending the code to any customers, and redo all of our code that assumed the use of a proxy cache (web site blocking, etc.) for fear that squid infringed IBM patents, and that distribution of GPL'ed code infringing an IBM patent would grant a blanket license to use the patent to anyone who demanded the code from IBM by way of an InterJet. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 14:54:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF9C37B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06218; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:20:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAZxaO3j; Mon Oct 2 14:18:11 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA11027; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:20:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010022120.OAA11027@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: stolen script? To: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:20:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: billf@chimesnet.com (Bill Fumerola), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), marko@FreeBSD.ORG (Mark Ovens), will@physics.purdue.edu (Will Andrews), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <55711.970457762@winston.osd.bsdi.com> from "Jordan Hubbard" at Oct 01, 2000 08:36:02 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > So why do we even have src/COPYRIGHT, then? To copyright itself? > > I've always wondered that myself. Go do a grep on all our .c files > and you'll find that far more of them contain copyright lines than > don't, so even if it was intended as "a place to point" it certainly > never fulfilled that purpose. I think it was one of those "seemed > like a good idea at the time" things. I believe that legally, it's an aggregation copyright/license, and thus applies to all files that do not have their own separate copyright/license specifically attached. The whole "copyright/license on each and every file" thing is a pre-Berne holdover, which is theoretically useful in countries with laws based on the pre-Berne U.S. copyright law, but no longer germane in the U.S.. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 15: 2:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9AF837B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07697; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:32:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAANha4qo; Mon Oct 2 14:32:05 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA11355; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:33:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010022133.OAA11355@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: stolen script? To: marko@FreeBSD.ORG (Mark Ovens) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:33:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), will@physics.purdue.edu (Will Andrews), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001002180608.A252@parish> from "Mark Ovens" at Oct 02, 2000 06:06:08 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:25:44PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > > Like I said in the original email, I'm pretty sure src/COPYRIGHT > > > covers all files originally imported into the repository. > > > > I'm afraid that such "blanket coverage" would not be even remotely > > legal, according to the Bern convention or otherwise. All files must > > bear the appropriate rcopyright text, especially given the fact that > > we mix and match copyrights under /usr/src - /usr/src/gnu is obviously > > not covered by src/COPYRIGHT for example. > > > > Ah thank you. That was what I was wondering. I would imagine that a single, > blanket coverage, copyright file would only be valid/legal if all the files > it covered were *only* available in a single tarball (and then the > copyright would have to be on the tarball "and all files contained > therein". That's true. And that's what FreeBSD has. Anyone who takes the file out of context of the aggregation is required to take the agregation copyright/license with it, if the file has no other lixense permitting its use, otherwise. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 15:13:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8870437B66D; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92D68161C1; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30099; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:13:08 -0400 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id ; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 18:06:12 -0400 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525696C.007941D2 ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:04:27 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, jswarner@uswest.net (Joe Warner), mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org (Michael Lucas) Message-Id: <8525696C.007940A5.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:06:59 -0600 Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, then advertising shouldn't be an issue and the editor I spoke with at Linux Magazine was simply misinformed, right? What I've been hearing thus far, is that a large number of advertisers don't advertise their products as being compatible with the BSDs because, amid the current popularity of Linux, haven't heard of the BSDs or for unknown reasons, haven't referenced the BSDs in their ads. When I started the long thread (BSD Magazine?) a while back, I saw quite a number of responses stating that demand for a magazine in print wouldn't be the issue, finding adequate sponsorship and advertising would. So, it seems if a BSD focused magazine is to become a reality, efforts need to be made to spread the word to the advertisers as well as publishers, with heavy emphasis on the previous. Joe |--------+-----------------------> | | Terry Lambert| | | | | | | | | 10/02/00 | | | 02:58 PM | | | | |--------+-----------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org (Michael | | Lucas) | | cc: jswarner@uswest.net (Joe Warner), | | freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, | | freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, (bcc: Joe | | Warner/SMS) | | Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? | >---------------------------------------------------------| > > Why would advertising be such a big problem, since most applications > > that are made for Linux, will run on *BSD? What products are > > made for Linux exclusively and won't run on *BSD? > > While advertisers do make products that *run* on BSD, they don't > advertise their products as being usable on BSD. All the difference. This is wrong. Many companies support BSDI or FreeBSD versions, and have since the glibc2 debacle made it nearly impossible to maintain only a single Linux distribution. A good example is Zend, which builds a PHP optimizer, and distributes 1 FreeBSD version and 3 Linux versions of the same program because of binary incompatability between Linux distributions. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 15:13:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pop.hccnet.nl (pop.hccnet.nl [193.172.127.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D445F37B66C; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parmenides.utp.net by pop.hccnet.nl via uds147-123.dial.hccnet.nl [193.173.123.147] with ESMTP id AAA09300 (8.8.5/1.13); Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:13:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (janko@localhost) by parmenides.utp.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01131; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:13:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from janko@compuserve.com) X-Authentication-Warning: parmenides.utp.net: janko owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:13:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Janko van Roosmalen X-Sender: janko@parmenides.utp.net To: Joe Warner Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazin In-Reply-To: <39D743C3.4BBDC6F5@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I subscribed to Linux Magazine a few months before I installed FreeBSD, and I already would be happy with a FreeBSD column. If we cannot get a magazine a column would be better than nothing. Remember Marcuse's phrase "march through the institutions". Even though I use Linux hardly anymore I renewed my subscription, because of the many non-Linux related articels. The Oct edition edition had nice articles about how to set up "postfix" and how to secure DNS and Bind. My 0.02 devaluated Eurocents ===Janko van Roosmalen - Vught - Netherlands=== On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Joe Warner wrote: > > > Regarding the long thread that ensued, a while back, after I posted and > questioned the possibility of a BSD magazine in print....below is a > response I got from one of the editors of Linux Magazine. > > Why would advertising be such a big problem, since most applications > that are made for Linux, will run on *BSD? What products are > made for Linux exclusively and won't run on *BSD? > > Joe > > > Linux Magazine Editors wrote: > > > > > > > I agree with you that a FreeBSD magazine would be a really cool idea, and > > > that there are a substantial number of readers who would support it. > > > > The problem is the other side of the equation -- advertisers. > > Unfortunately, there are not enough companies that make products for BSD > > > and that would want to advertise those products to support a publication. > > > > > However, don't despair. We are launching a new publication called "Open > > Source Developer's Journal", and there will be articles about BSD in that > > > magazine. The first issue contains a piece on the FreeBSD process > > schedualer. > > > > Anyway, I appreciate your comments about Linux Mag, and I hope that we > are > > able to provide you and the rest of the BSD community with intersting and > > > worthwhile publications, even if we can't launch a magazine dedicated > > solely to BSD. > > > > -- > > FreeBSD = The Power to Serve > ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 15:34:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 147E037B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47639161AE; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31721; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:34:16 -0400 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id ; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 18:34:06 -0400 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525696C.007BCFCF ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:32:21 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: Janko van Roosmalen Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, Joe Warner Message-Id: <8525696C.007BCF27.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:34:53 -0600 Subject: Re: BSD Magazin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I subscribed to Linux Magazine a few months before I installed FreeBSD, and I already would be happy with a FreeBSD column. If we cannot get a magazine a column would be better than nothing. I agree. This is also why the prospect of having a magazine that will include BSD related articles, such as The Open Source Developer's Journal (mentioned previously) is exciting and should provide some much needed exposure to the BSDs and the BSD community. The Oct edition had nice articles about how to set up "postfix" and how to secure DNS and Bind. Yes, it's a very well written magazine and I've enjoyed reading it for a long time, as well. Hopefully, if a BSD focused magazine emerges in the future, it will be of the same caliber. Joe |--------+-----------------------> | | Janko van | | | Roosmalen | | | | | | | | | 10/02/00 | | | 04:13 PM | | | | |--------+-----------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Joe Warner | | cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, | | freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, (bcc: Joe | | Warner/SMS) | | Subject: Re: BSD Magazin | >---------------------------------------------------------| I subscribed to Linux Magazine a few months before I installed FreeBSD, and I already would be happy with a FreeBSD column. If we cannot get a magazine a column would be better than nothing. Remember Marcuse's phrase "march through the institutions". Even though I use Linux hardly anymore I renewed my subscription, because of the many non-Linux related articels. The Oct edition edition had nice articles about how to set up "postfix" and how to secure DNS and Bind. My 0.02 devaluated Eurocents ===Janko van Roosmalen - Vught - Netherlands=== On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Joe Warner wrote: > > > Regarding the long thread that ensued, a while back, after I posted and > questioned the possibility of a BSD magazine in print....below is a > response I got from one of the editors of Linux Magazine. > > Why would advertising be such a big problem, since most applications > that are made for Linux, will run on *BSD? What products are > made for Linux exclusively and won't run on *BSD? > > Joe > > > Linux Magazine Editors wrote: > > > > > > > I agree with you that a FreeBSD magazine would be a really cool idea, and > > > that there are a substantial number of readers who would support it. > > > > The problem is the other side of the equation -- advertisers. > > Unfortunately, there are not enough companies that make products for BSD > > > and that would want to advertise those products to support a publication. > > > > > However, don't despair. We are launching a new publication called "Open > > Source Developer's Journal", and there will be articles about BSD in that > > > magazine. The first issue contains a piece on the FreeBSD process > > schedualer. > > > > Anyway, I appreciate your comments about Linux Mag, and I hope that we > are > > able to provide you and the rest of the BSD community with intersting and > > > worthwhile publications, even if we can't launch a magazine dedicated > > solely to BSD. > > > > -- > > FreeBSD = The Power to Serve > ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 15:35:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3773D37B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.41.153]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAAB28; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:38:06 -0700 Message-ID: <39D90D00.590ED6F7@acuson.com> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:32:32 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe.Warner@smed.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? References: <8525696C.007940A5.00@Deimos.smed.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joe.Warner@smed.com wrote: > So, it seems if a BSD focused magazine is to become a reality, efforts need > to > be made to spread the word to the advertisers as well as publishers, with > heavy emphasis on the previous. Or we could all do what the Linux community did two and three years ago (when they were in our position). When you buy a NIC, soundcard or any other hardware ask the manufacturer for a FreeBSD driver. Ask Dell and Gateway for preinstalls of FreeBSD. Ask your software vendors when they will be porting their stuff to FreeBSD. The answer to all of the above will be "no" and "never", but it will plant the name "FreeBSD" into their heads. And we also need to do some stuff that they never even had a problem with... Don't refer to Open Source Unix applications as "Linux apps". When an article talks about "Apache, the Linux software", gently and *politely* remind them that Apache works with all Unix systems, including FreeBSD, Solaris et al (it's okay to fail to mention NT :-) ). When you hear of an announcement to port a program to Linux, ask whether it will also be ported to FreeBSD. Eventually it will dawn on these advertisers and publishers that there is this thing out there called FreeBSD and that its users have money to spend. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 15:35:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903DC37B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e92MZCR01706; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:35:12 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Terry Lambert Cc: Jordan Hubbard , Bill Fumerola , Mark Ovens , Will Andrews , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001002153511.Z27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <55711.970457762@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <200010022120.OAA11027@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <200010022120.OAA11027@usr05.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 09:20:21PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Terry Lambert [001002 14:54] wrote: > > > So why do we even have src/COPYRIGHT, then? To copyright itself? > > > > I've always wondered that myself. Go do a grep on all our .c files > > and you'll find that far more of them contain copyright lines than > > don't, so even if it was intended as "a place to point" it certainly > > never fulfilled that purpose. I think it was one of those "seemed > > like a good idea at the time" things. > > I believe that legally, it's an aggregation copyright/license, > and thus applies to all files that do not have their own separate > copyright/license specifically attached. > > The whole "copyright/license on each and every file" thing is > a pre-Berne holdover, which is theoretically useful in countries > with laws based on the pre-Berne U.S. copyright law, but no > longer germane in the U.S.. It sorta made me wonder, each file in linux has a single: Copyright (c) Linus 199x... But not even a mention of linux/COPYING But then again that does mention a copyright even if not what it actually entails. src/etc/security has nothing besideds a Berkeley RCS tag and src/COPYRIGHT above it. whereas most anything coming from the FSF has this attached to it: /* dbxout.h - Various declarations for functions found in dbxout.c Copyright (C) 1998, 1999, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This file is part of GNU CC. GNU CC is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option) any later version. GNU CC is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with GNU CC; see the file COPYING. If not, write to the Free Software Foundation, 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. */ -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 15:37:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A769E37B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e92MatU72334; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:36:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: Terry Lambert Cc: bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), marko@FreeBSD.ORG (Mark Ovens), will@physics.purdue.edu (Will Andrews), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? In-Reply-To: Message from Terry Lambert of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:42:44 -0000." <200010022142.OAA11519@usr05.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:36:55 -0700 Message-ID: <72330.970526215@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > According to the IBM lawyers who did due dilligence on all > of FreeBSD, prior to the Whistle acquisition, the src/COPYRIGHT > is all that's necessary and sufficient. [I should know better than to reply to a Lambert posting, but what the hell, it's Monday :) ] I would have thought IBM employed more expensive lawyers than this. There are portions of /usr/src clearly covered under the GPL, yet your lawyers claimed that src/COPYRIGHT still covered them? I have to believe that you're misrepresenting what they said since I can't imagine IBM going this far wrong. Similarly, there are other bits of src/ which are covered under the beerware license, private licenses, various permutations on the berkeley license and any number of things not covered by src/COPYRIGHT. That would imply a rule of "under src/COPYRIGHT unless I say otherwise" and that's not a rule which I could see any lawyer supporting since it would mean that any portion of src which was taken away would suddenly be license-less, and expecting an "all or nothing" approach to FreeBSD's /usr/src would be unrealistic at best. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 15:41:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C96B37B503 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parish ([62.253.84.176]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001002224106.NAF13676.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@parish>; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:41:06 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e92Mevm00903; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:40:57 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:40:55 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Terry Lambert Cc: Jordan Hubbard , Alfred Perlstein , Will Andrews , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stolen script? Message-ID: <20001002234055.B252@parish> References: <20001002180608.A252@parish> <200010022133.OAA11355@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200010022133.OAA11355@usr05.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 09:33:21PM +0000 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 09:33:21PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:25:44PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > > > Like I said in the original email, I'm pretty sure src/COPYRIGHT > > > > covers all files originally imported into the repository. > > > > > > I'm afraid that such "blanket coverage" would not be even remotely > > > legal, according to the Bern convention or otherwise. All files must > > > bear the appropriate rcopyright text, especially given the fact that > > > we mix and match copyrights under /usr/src - /usr/src/gnu is obviously > > > not covered by src/COPYRIGHT for example. > > > > > > > Ah thank you. That was what I was wondering. I would imagine that a single, > > blanket coverage, copyright file would only be valid/legal if all the files > > it covered were *only* available in a single tarball (and then the > > copyright would have to be on the tarball "and all files contained > > therein". > > That's true. And that's what FreeBSD has. > But is it? You can trawl the CVS repository and download a single file. Starting at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ and moving down I can see no mention of copyright anywhere (even the web pages themselves do not have copyright notice on them). > Anyone who takes the file out of context of the aggregation is > required to take the agregation copyright/license with it, if > the file has no other lixense permitting its use, otherwise. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- 4.4 - The number of the Beastie ________________________________________________________________ 51.44°N FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org 2.057°W My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark mailto:marko@freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 15:48:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21F0037B66D; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6FF161C2; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32754; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:48:32 -0400 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id ; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 18:48:23 -0400 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525696C.007D1E6E ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:46:37 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: David Johnson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-Id: <8525696C.007D1E43.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:49:11 -0600 Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Or we could all do what the Linux community did two and three years ago >(when they were in our position). When you buy a NIC, soundcard or any >other hardware ask the manufacturer for a FreeBSD driver. Ask Dell and >Gateway for preinstalls of FreeBSD. Agreed..and I've heard this recommended before. >Don't refer to Open Source Unix applications as "Linux apps". Yes! Very good point! I agree with everything you've said but would add that it wouldn't hurt to take a more proactive approach and make an effort to contact the advertisers directly, whether by email or phone and not just when you purchase a new NIC or soundcard. I think it would be a good idea to pick up a few of the most popular magazines, take note of who some of their most prominent advertisers are and send them a polite message. As stated in a previous email, I plan to contact as many publishers and now advertisers as I can and will post the feedback I get here. Though, it will take more than one person's efforts to make a dent. Joe |--------+-----------------------> | | David Johnson| | | | | | | | | 10/02/00 | | | 04:32 PM | | | | |--------+-----------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Joe Warner/SMS@SMS | | cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, | | freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org | | Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? | >---------------------------------------------------------| Joe.Warner@smed.com wrote: > So, it seems if a BSD focused magazine is to become a reality, efforts need > to > be made to spread the word to the advertisers as well as publishers, with > heavy emphasis on the previous. Or we could all do what the Linux community did two and three years ago (when they were in our position). When you buy a NIC, soundcard or any other hardware ask the manufacturer for a FreeBSD driver. Ask Dell and Gateway for preinstalls of FreeBSD. Ask your software vendors when they will be porting their stuff to FreeBSD. The answer to all of the above will be "no" and "never", but it will plant the name "FreeBSD" into their heads. And we also need to do some stuff that they never even had a problem with... Don't refer to Open Source Unix applications as "Linux apps". When an article talks about "Apache, the Linux software", gently and *politely* remind them that Apache works with all Unix systems, including FreeBSD, Solaris et al (it's okay to fail to mention NT :-) ). When you hear of an announcement to port a program to Linux, ask whether it will also be ported to FreeBSD. Eventually it will dawn on these advertisers and publishers that there is this thing out there called FreeBSD and that its users have money to spend. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 16: 5:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20FEA37B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.41.153]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA19C5; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:08:08 -0700 Message-ID: <39D9140E.9A32F63E@acuson.com> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:02:38 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe.Warner@smed.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? References: <8525696C.007D1E43.00@Deimos.smed.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joe.Warner@smed.com wrote: > I think it would be a good idea to pick up a few of > the most popular magazines, take note of who some > of their most prominent advertisers are and send > them a polite message. Well, in the case of Linux Magazine, one of their more prominent advertisers is BSDi and Walnut Creek :-) I'm thinking that there's enough BSD vendors to get adverts for a magazine, though maybe not enough to get one for a magazine quite as slick as Linux Magazine. Remember the early Linux Journals. It shouldn't be a problem lining up advertisers like OSDN (Slashdot, Freshmeat), Applix, BSDi, Sendmail Inc, Loki, O'Reilly. And if all the ballyhoo about making money is more than just talk, contact Helix and AbiSource. And since FreeBSD is still big for ISPs, what about those companies servicing ISPs? David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 16:27:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B2B37B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e92NQvU77911; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:26:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: Terry Lambert Cc: marko@FreeBSD.ORG (Mark Ovens), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), will@physics.purdue.edu (Will Andrews), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? In-Reply-To: Message from Terry Lambert of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:33:21 -0000." <200010022133.OAA11355@usr05.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:26:57 -0700 Message-ID: <77907.970529217@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anyone who takes the file out of context of the aggregation is > required to take the agregation copyright/license with it, if > the file has no other lixense permitting its use, otherwise. I would love to see what weird legal book you're reading out of. First you cite the Berne convention as essentially backwards from everything I've ever read on it, then you state an implicit copyright clause that I'm sure nobody is at all familiar with, much less follows. Can we get back to reality again in this discussion or see some URLs which support this line of thinking? It runs counter to everything I've heard to date. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 19:10:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4175837B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05471; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:11:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAGLayKk; Mon Oct 2 19:11:03 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00915; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:10:39 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010030210.TAA00915@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: stolen script? To: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 02:10:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), marko@FreeBSD.ORG (Mark Ovens), will@physics.purdue.edu (Will Andrews), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <72330.970526215@winston.osd.bsdi.com> from "Jordan Hubbard" at Oct 02, 2000 03:36:55 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > According to the IBM lawyers who did due dilligence on all > > of FreeBSD, prior to the Whistle acquisition, the src/COPYRIGHT > > is all that's necessary and sufficient. > > [I should know better than to reply to a Lambert posting, but > what the hell, it's Monday :) ] > > I would have thought IBM employed more expensive lawyers than this. > There are portions of /usr/src clearly covered under the GPL, yet your > lawyers claimed that src/COPYRIGHT still covered them? I have to > believe that you're misrepresenting what they said since I can't > imagine IBM going this far wrong. They didn't care about the stuff that didn't infringe intellectual property, and was merely tactical. Samba, for instance, was permitted. What they cared about most was patent infringing GPL'ed code, followed closely by files with no statements in them whatsoever, with the "Beerware" license coming in third. IBM also ran down every non-explicitly licensed file with the author, and insisted that it either be vetted or removed. Be aware that an InterJet runs FreeBSD, but it runs a purpose built version of FreeBSD, full of things like Telenetworks drivers, a modified General BIOS, and other licensed pieces from third parties. This is not the same as "all FreeBSD", so I did misspeak there; sorry about any confusion. The point is, that anything of unacceptable provenance needed vetting, licensing, or diking. Period. > Similarly, there are other bits of src/ which are covered under the > beerware license, private licenses, various permutations on the > berkeley license and any number of things not covered by > src/COPYRIGHT. That would imply a rule of "under src/COPYRIGHT unless > I say otherwise" and that's not a rule which I could see any lawyer > supporting since it would mean that any portion of src which was taken > away would suddenly be license-less, and expecting an "all or nothing" > approach to FreeBSD's /usr/src would be unrealistic at best. I already addressed the "Beerware" issue in the post to which you are reply, but since that part got snipped, I've readdressed it, above. The private licenses weren't really an issue, so long as they were proforma on IBM's "approved license list", i.e. they did not require source code distribution, or if the products themselves were on IBM's "approved non IBM patent infringing software list", i.e. the code had previously been vetted by another group within IBM. PS: If you take a portion of the source away without a license, then it is, in fact licenseless. You lose any rights that were granted you by the license. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 19:13:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 547D837B502; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06488; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:13:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAASBaaIm; Mon Oct 2 19:13:38 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00999; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:13:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010030213.TAA00999@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: stolen script? To: marko@freebsd.org (Mark Ovens) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 02:13:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), will@physics.purdue.edu (Will Andrews), advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20001002234055.B252@parish> from "Mark Ovens" at Oct 02, 2000 11:40:55 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > But is it? You can trawl the CVS repository and download a single file. > Starting at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ and moving down I can > see no mention of copyright anywhere (even the web pages themselves do not > have copyright notice on them). This no more grants you rights to the code than your ability to shoplift a pair of pants grants you rights to the pants; just because something is possible, that doesn't make it legal. The _only_ thing that grants you rights to the code is a license from the copyright holder or an assignment of the copyright. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 2 19:46:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3E537B503; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18115; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAbDaauJ; Mon Oct 2 19:47:01 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA01709; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:46:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010030246.TAA01709@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: stolen script? To: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 02:46:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), marko@FreeBSD.ORG (Mark Ovens), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), will@physics.purdue.edu (Will Andrews), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <77907.970529217@winston.osd.bsdi.com> from "Jordan Hubbard" at Oct 02, 2000 04:26:57 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Anyone who takes the file out of context of the aggregation is > > required to take the agregation copyright/license with it, if > > the file has no other lixense permitting its use, otherwise. > > I would love to see what weird legal book you're reading out of. > First you cite the Berne convention as essentially backwards from > everything I've ever read on it, then you state an implicit copyright > clause that I'm sure nobody is at all familiar with, much less > follows. Can we get back to reality again in this discussion > or see some URLs which support this line of thinking? It runs > counter to everything I've heard to date. Well, if you want to get serious about it, you should go read the pertinent legislation itself. It's not that bad, despite the many complaints most people have about "legalese". Here are some general pointers: http://www.wipo.int/about-ip/en/copyright.html http://www.whatiscopyright.org/ http://www.bitlaw.com/ http://www.greyday.org/ http://www.loc.gov/copyright/ And here is the text of U.S. Title 17: http://www.loc.gov/copyright/title17/ And here is the text of the U.S. legislation implementing the Berne Convention: http://www.loc.gov/copyright/title17/appendix.pdf Or for the PDF-challenged: http://www.loc.gov/copyright/title17/92appii.html http://www.loc.gov/copyright/title17/92appvi.html And here is the text of the Berne Convention itself: http://www.wipo.int/eng/iplex/wo_ber0_.htm (actually, http://www.eblida.org/ is a pretty god resource on all European Intellectual Property matters). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 3 1:20: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D644437B66C; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 01:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 13gNRz-000PPh-00; Tue, 03 Oct 2000 02:29:23 -0600 Message-ID: <39D998E3.57449F25@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 02:29:23 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.1-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Jordan Hubbard , Alfred Perlstein , Mark Ovens , Will Andrews , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stolen script? References: <55614.970457144@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <20001001232812.F38472@jade.chc-chimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:25:44PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > > I'm afraid that such "blanket coverage" would not be even remotely > > legal, according to the Bern convention or otherwise. All files must > > bear the appropriate rcopyright text, especially given the fact that > > we mix and match copyrights under /usr/src - /usr/src/gnu is obviously > > not covered by src/COPYRIGHT for example. > > So why do we even have src/COPYRIGHT, then? To copyright itself? To make it really easy to find one when you need it? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 3 7:17:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 278A637B66C; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 07:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fagan (fagan.pmr.com [10.1.0.22]) by pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02147; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:17:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Message-ID: <004501c02d44$31110940$1600010a@pmr.com> From: "Steve Fagan" To: "David Johnson" , Cc: , References: <8525696C.007D1E43.00@Deimos.smed.com> <39D9140E.9A32F63E@acuson.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:14:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here is a vendor who might advertise. Not that our UNIX boxes need the virus protection the NT/Winxx boxes need but FreeBSD does get listed on their site as a supported UNIX. www.sophos.com Platforms Solaris/SPARC Solaris/Intel Linux/Intel Linux/Alpha SCO OpenServer/Intel SCO UnixWare/Intel Digital Unix/Alpha (Compaq Tru64 Unix/Alpha) AIX/PowerPC FreeBSD/Intel HP-UX/HP-PA ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Johnson" To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 6:02 PM Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? > Joe.Warner@smed.com wrote: > > > I think it would be a good idea to pick up a few of > > the most popular magazines, take note of who some > > of their most prominent advertisers are and send > > them a polite message. > > Well, in the case of Linux Magazine, one of their more prominent > advertisers is BSDi and Walnut Creek :-) > > I'm thinking that there's enough BSD vendors to get adverts for a > magazine, though maybe not enough to get one for a magazine quite as > slick as Linux Magazine. Remember the early Linux Journals. It shouldn't > be a problem lining up advertisers like OSDN (Slashdot, Freshmeat), > Applix, BSDi, Sendmail Inc, Loki, O'Reilly. And if all the ballyhoo > about making money is more than just talk, contact Helix and AbiSource. > And since FreeBSD is still big for ISPs, what about those companies > servicing ISPs? > > David > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 3 7:34:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from viking.sophos.com (viking.sophos.com [194.203.134.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75A0737B503; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 07:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jagannath.uk.sophos (jagannath.uk.sophos [10.1.200.3]) by viking.sophos.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A4B151D121; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:34:14 +0100 (BST) Received: by Jagannath.uk.sophos(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) id 8025696D.00500FAD ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:34:28 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SOPHOS From: "Peter Cooper" To: "Steve Fagan" Cc: "David Johnson" , Joe.Warner@smed.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <8025696D.00500F66.00@Jagannath.uk.sophos> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:34:26 +0100 Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >www.sophos.com >FreeBSD/Intel Which is, interestingly, completely free for personal [read: non-commercial] use. And yes, I do work for them :) Best regards, Peter Cooper Sophos Anti-Virus Technical Support To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 3 8:19: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2064837B502; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA67257; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:18:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:18:52 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Peter Cooper Cc: Steve Fagan , David Johnson , Joe.Warner@smed.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? Message-ID: <20001003111852.A67241@blackhelicopters.org> References: <8025696D.00500F66.00@Jagannath.uk.sophos> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <8025696D.00500F66.00@Jagannath.uk.sophos>; from peter.cooper@sophos.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 03:34:26PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So, Peter, could you ask your PR person if they would be interested in advertising in a BSD magazine? On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 03:34:26PM +0100, Peter Cooper wrote: > > >www.sophos.com > >FreeBSD/Intel > > Which is, interestingly, completely free for personal [read: non-commercial] > use. > > And yes, I do work for them :) > > Best regards, > Peter Cooper > Sophos Anti-Virus Technical Support > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 3 8:25: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from viking.sophos.com (viking.sophos.com [194.203.134.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 631EE37B503; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jagannath.uk.sophos (jagannath.uk.sophos [10.1.200.3]) by viking.sophos.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F27261D123; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:25:00 +0100 (BST) Received: by Jagannath.uk.sophos(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) id 8025696D.0054B1D3 ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:25:05 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SOPHOS From: "Peter Cooper" To: Michael Lucas Cc: Steve Fagan , David Johnson , Joe.Warner@smed.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <8025696D.0054B05C.00@Jagannath.uk.sophos> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:24:59 +0100 Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >could you ask your PR person if they would be interested in >advertising in a BSD magazine? Initial impressions appear to be good -- who's the best person here to forward enquiries to ? ['Scuse my ignorance, I'm still catching up on postings] Thanks, Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 3 8:34:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84FA37B66C; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA67409; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:34:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:34:38 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Peter Cooper Cc: Steve Fagan , David Johnson , Joe.Warner@smed.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? Message-ID: <20001003113438.A67389@blackhelicopters.org> References: <8025696D.0054B05C.00@Jagannath.uk.sophos> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <8025696D.0054B05C.00@Jagannath.uk.sophos>; from peter.cooper@sophos.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 04:24:59PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, Joe Warner seems to be spearheading this one. Congrats, Joe. :) On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 04:24:59PM +0100, Peter Cooper wrote: > > >could you ask your PR person if they would be interested in > >advertising in a BSD magazine? > > Initial impressions appear to be good -- who's the best person here to forward > enquiries to ? > ['Scuse my ignorance, I'm still catching up on postings] > > Thanks, > Peter > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 3 9:23:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3457B37B502; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E97F161B9; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30060; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:23:52 -0400 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id ; Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:22:13 -0400 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525696D.0059C300 ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:20:26 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: Michael Lucas Cc: David Johnson , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, "Peter Cooper "@smed.com Message-Id: <8525696D.0059C168.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:22:57 -0600 Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yeah...thanks. I was just about to volunteer but was in the middle of making a list of advertisers to contact. FYI - Just about all the products I've found advertised in this month's issue of Linux Journal and Linux Magazine, are ported to work with the BSDs. (At least, according to what they're advertising on their web sites) Joe |--------+------------------------------> | | Michael Lucas | | | | | | | | | 10/03/00 09:34 AM | | | | |--------+------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Peter Cooper | | cc: Steve Fagan , David | | Johnson , Joe Warner/SMS@SMS,| | freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, | | freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG | | Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? | >---------------------------------------------------------| Well, Joe Warner seems to be spearheading this one. Congrats, Joe. :) On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 04:24:59PM +0100, Peter Cooper wrote: > > >could you ask your PR person if they would be interested in > >advertising in a BSD magazine? > > Initial impressions appear to be good -- who's the best person here to forward > enquiries to ? > ['Scuse my ignorance, I'm still catching up on postings] > > Thanks, > Peter > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 3 9:50:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9E937B502; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2397616194; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01475; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:50:44 -0400 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id ; Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:50:39 -0400 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525696D.005C5D6F ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:48:52 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: Michael Lucas , FreeBSD-Newbies@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-Advocacy@freebsd.org Message-Id: <8525696D.005C5B3F.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:51:19 -0600 Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I'd say, contact the publisher of your choice and tell them that you >have a list of people who would be interested in advertising in a BSD >magazine. Ok,..well, contacting LM and LJ aren't a problem but I've had a hard time finding contact addresses for some of the others like CMP. Either their contact listings are burried so far down or they just list a snail mail address or long distance phone number. Can anybody recommend any other publishers? Joe |--------+------------------------------> | | Michael Lucas | | | | | | | | | 10/03/00 10:36 AM | | | | |--------+------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Peter Cooper | | cc: Joe Warner/SMS@SMS | | Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? | >---------------------------------------------------------| > >One question comes to mind, now. Suppose we find a whole slew > >of advertisers that would be interested in providing some > >advertisements for a BSD focused magazine. > >What's the next step? Contact Linux Magazine or Linux Journal and > >tell them? I'd say, contact the publisher of your choice and tell them that you have a list of people who would be interested in advertising in a BSD magazine. They need to be made aware that the advertising market exists. Remember, the vendor doesn't care. If they support BSD and Linux, they don't want to be involved in an X-is-better-than-Y flamewar. -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 3 12: 2:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E794437B502; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4395516185; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20787; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:02:14 -0400 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id ; Tue, 03 Oct 2000 15:01:59 -0400 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525696D.00686676 ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:00:19 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-Id: <8525696D.00686617.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:02:53 -0600 Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Listing) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, here's what I've come up with, so far. I encourage any/all to help spread the word to these advertisers. The more of them that are made "BSD" aware, the closer we will be to seeing a BSD magazine appear at your local news stand and book store. Thanks Joe BRU - http://www.bru.com/16.0.html Contact: sales@estinc.com Telenet System Solutions inc. - http://www.tesys.com Contact: sales@tesys.com, info@tesys.com, services@tesys.com Cyclades Corporation - http://www.cyclades.com/partners_a.html Contact: http://www.cyclades.com/contactus.html Arkeia - http://www.arkeia.com/platforms.html Contact: PR@arkeia.com Aspen Systems inc - http://www.aspsys.com Contact: sales@aspsys.com Amazon.com - http://www.amazon.com/ Contact: ? APC - http://www.apc.com Contact: http://answers.apcc.com/cgi-bin/apc/people Dell - http://www.dell.com/us/en/gen/default.htm Contact: http://www.dell.com/us/en/gen/contact.htm Dice.com - http://www.dice.com Contact: http://www.dice.com/help/contactus/supportmail.html Intrusion.com - http://www.intrusion.com/ Contact: info@intrusion.com, baustin@intrusion.com Kingston Technology - http://www.kingston.com/default.asp Contact: sales@kingston.com ThinkGeek - http://www.thinkgeek.com Contact: Willie : neo@thinkgeek.com Sys Admin - http://www.sysadminmag.com Contact: Greg Garrison - ggarrison@mfi.com Edwin Rothrock - erothrock@mfi.com O'Reilly - http://www.oreilly.com Contact: nuts@oreilly.com Exabyte - http://www.exabyte.com Contact: Karen Cryderman, Manager of PR, IR - karenc@exabyte.com VXA - http://www.vxa.com Contact: info@ecrix.com, Taylor Allis, Manager, Marketing Communications tallis@ecrix.com Metro Link Incorporated - http://www.metrolink.com Contact: Amy Zsak Marketing/Public Relations - amyz@metrolink.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 3 12:28:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from envy.geekhouse.net (envy.geekhouse.net [64.81.6.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C14937B503; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jim@localhost) by envy.geekhouse.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e93JSbE85592; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:28:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:28:37 -0700 From: Jim Mock To: Joe.Warner@smed.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Listing) Message-ID: <20001003122837.A85524@envy.geekhouse.net> Reply-To: jim@lust.geekhouse.net References: <8525696D.00686617.00@Deimos.smed.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <8525696D.00686617.00@Deimos.smed.com>; from Joe.Warner@smed.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 01:02:53PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 03 Oct 2000 at 13:02:53 -0600, Joe.Warner@smed.com wrote: > Well, here's what I've come up with, so far. > > I encourage any/all to help spread the word to these advertisers. > The more of them that are made "BSD" aware, the closer we will > be to seeing a BSD magazine appear at your local news stand > and book store. > > Thanks > > Joe > > BRU - http://www.bru.com/16.0.html > Contact: sales@estinc.com > > Telenet System Solutions inc. - http://www.tesys.com > Contact: sales@tesys.com, info@tesys.com, services@tesys.com Telenet is part of BSDi now. Contact info is as follows: WWW: http://www.bsdi.com/ Email: info@bsdi.com - jim -- jim mock work: jim@osd.bsdi.com | jim@FreeBSD.org http://soupnazi.org/ BSDi Open Source Div | http://bsdi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 3 15: 4:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C47E37B66D; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23923; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:01:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAy_aGEU; Tue Oct 3 15:01:02 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA27846; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:03:57 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010032203.PAA27846@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? To: sfagan@pmr.com (Steve Fagan) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 22:03:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: djohnson@acuson.com (David Johnson), Joe.Warner@smed.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <004501c02d44$31110940$1600010a@pmr.com> from "Steve Fagan" at Oct 03, 2000 09:14:06 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Here is a vendor who might advertise. Not that our UNIX boxes need the > virus protection the NT/Winxx boxes need but FreeBSD does get listed on > their site as a supported UNIX. Norton Antivirus (Symantec) is apparently being ported to FreeBSD, at the behest of Yahoo. McAfee Antivirus already runs on FreeBSD; last I heard, it was being updated. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 4:56:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 90F8A37B66C for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 04:56:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 52821 invoked by alias); 4 Oct 2000 11:56:15 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 52808 invoked by uid 0); 4 Oct 2000 11:56:14 -0000 Received: from badialup81.slkc.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (63.225.236.81) by slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2000 11:56:14 -0000 Message-ID: <39DB19E3.2FEE85FF@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 05:52:03 -0600 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I sent out quite a few emails to advertisers last night and have already gotten some responses. Here's the first one from Intrusion.com: >Thanks for the information Joe. >Our company is developing security applications on the linux operating >system for a number of reasons at this time have no roadmap for any of >our products to support or work with BSD. >Intrusion.com and myself would not see any interest in receiving the >magazine nor adviterising in it. I got a better response from BSDi: >Joe, >Of course we would consider advertising in a BSD magazine. We already >advertise on Daemonnews.org, BSDtoday.com, as well as slashdot.org and >Linux-oriented magazines like Linux Systems Journal. >We would dearly love to see you initiate your magazine. >- Kevin Rose >Director, Corporate Marketing ...and I received the following from Arkeia.com and have already responded. I'm not sure if I was able to provide adequate answers to their questions but did my best. If anyone can come up with a good response to these, please respond and I will forward them: >Hi Joe, >Could you please give me more details about the readers you target, how many >magazines you want to print and in which areas you want to distribute your >magazine? Do you already have a dummy of your magazine you could show me? -- FreeBSD = The Power to Serve ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 10:21: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 658BF37B66C; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA74C7; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:23:54 -0700 Message-ID: <39DB6660.6F47090B@acuson.com> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:18:24 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Warner Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) References: <39DB19E3.2FEE85FF@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joe Warner wrote: > >Could you please give me more details about the readers you target, how > many > >magazines you want to print and in which areas you want to distribute your > >magazine? Do you already have a dummy of your magazine you could show me? Are we already hitting a circular roadblock? Can't get a magazine until we get advertisers, and we can't get advertisers until we get a magazine... David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 10:28:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481C537B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA73512; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:28:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:28:01 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: David Johnson Cc: Joe Warner , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001004132801.A73485@blackhelicopters.org> References: <39DB19E3.2FEE85FF@uswest.net> <39DB6660.6F47090B@acuson.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <39DB6660.6F47090B@acuson.com>; from djohnson@acuson.com on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 10:18:24AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Are we already hitting a circular roadblock? Can't get a magazine until > we get advertisers, and we can't get advertisers until we get a > magazine... Yep. Good luck. ;) Sorry, not to be sarcastic here... I've fought this battle before (although not for BSD), and it's a long one. I can't help but simultaneously feel sorry for you, and skeptical of the results. But I certainly hope for success, and BSD has to win this fight *some* day. FWIW, the second magazine will spring up on its own, inspired by the first. ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 10:36:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.mia.bellsouth.net (mail1.mia.bellsouth.net [205.152.144.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FF2F37B66C; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neurowin1 (adsl-61-37-119.mia.bellsouth.net [208.61.37.119]) by mail1.mia.bellsouth.net (3.3.5alt/0.75.2) with SMTP id NAA01747; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901c02e28$d79c7b20$0100a8c0@ehelpworld.com> From: "Neurosys" To: "Michael Lucas" Cc: , References: <39DB19E3.2FEE85FF@uswest.net> <39DB6660.6F47090B@acuson.com> <20001004132801.A73485@blackhelicopters.org> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:30:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Listen. In order to make this 'business'. you need capital to start it. Thats how you break the cycle. Neurosys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Lucas" To: "David Johnson" Cc: "Joe Warner" ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 1:28 PM Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > Are we already hitting a circular roadblock? Can't get a magazine until > > we get advertisers, and we can't get advertisers until we get a > > magazine... > > Yep. Good luck. ;) > > Sorry, not to be sarcastic here... I've fought this battle before > (although not for BSD), and it's a long one. I can't help but > simultaneously feel sorry for you, and skeptical of the results. But > I certainly hope for success, and BSD has to win this fight *some* > day. > > FWIW, the second magazine will spring up on its own, inspired by the > first. > > ==ml > > -- > Michael Lucas > mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ > Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 10:43:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5D037B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA73687; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:43:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:43:34 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Neurosys Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001004134334.A73671@blackhelicopters.org> References: <39DB19E3.2FEE85FF@uswest.net> <39DB6660.6F47090B@acuson.com> <20001004132801.A73485@blackhelicopters.org> <000901c02e28$d79c7b20$0100a8c0@ehelpworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <000901c02e28$d79c7b20$0100a8c0@ehelpworld.com>; from neurosys@bellsouth.net on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 01:30:48PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 01:30:48PM -0400, Neurosys wrote: > Listen. In order to make this 'business'. you need capital to start it. > Thats how you break the cycle. That would be far preferable. You have any? -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 10:46:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D8D37B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 53379E; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:46:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C24B49A13; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:46:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:46:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Neurosys Cc: Michael Lucas , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: <000901c02e28$d79c7b20$0100a8c0@ehelpworld.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, if we can get these advertisers to start advertising on Daemon News, that would help us raise the capital to start a magazine. If advertisers see that putting banner ads on Daemon News helps sell their products, the will be more likely to advertise in a print magazine. Chris Coleman Daemon News http://www.daemonnews.org Bringing BSD together On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Neurosys wrote: > Listen. In order to make this 'business'. you need capital to start it. > Thats how you break the cycle. > > Neurosys > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Lucas" > To: "David Johnson" > Cc: "Joe Warner" ; ; > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 1:28 PM > Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > > > > Are we already hitting a circular roadblock? Can't get a magazine until > > > we get advertisers, and we can't get advertisers until we get a > > > magazine... > > > > Yep. Good luck. ;) > > > > Sorry, not to be sarcastic here... I've fought this battle before > > (although not for BSD), and it's a long one. I can't help but > > simultaneously feel sorry for you, and skeptical of the results. But > > I certainly hope for success, and BSD has to win this fight *some* > > day. > > > > FWIW, the second magazine will spring up on its own, inspired by the > > first. > > > > ==ml > > > > -- > > Michael Lucas > > mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org > > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ > > Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 10:48:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E38937B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id C2F87E; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF1549A13; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:48:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Michael Lucas Cc: Neurosys , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: <20001004134334.A73671@blackhelicopters.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 01:30:48PM -0400, Neurosys wrote: > > Listen. In order to make this 'business'. you need capital to start it. > > Thats how you break the cycle. > > That would be far preferable. You have any? > Do we have an idea of how much capital it takes to get one started? -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 11:38: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8917B37B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA73975; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:37:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:37:54 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Chris Coleman Cc: Neurosys , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001004143754.A73929@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20001004134334.A73671@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from chrisc@vmunix.com on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 01:48:49PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 01:48:49PM -0400, Chris Coleman wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 01:30:48PM -0400, Neurosys wrote: > > > Listen. In order to make this 'business'. you need capital to start it. > > > Thats how you break the cycle. > > > > That would be far preferable. You have any? > > > Do we have an idea of how much capital it takes to get one started? > > -Chris Four year old quote: black-and-white interior, 96 pages, perfect bound, color cover with pre-separated masters, 1000 copies, roughly $2500, plus another $1500/1000 copies thereafter. Keep in mind that the cost of paper has gone up since then, and that this rate requires pre-laid-out pages, and in today's market you *have* to have pro-looking pages or you'll die before you hit bookstore shelves. That's just the physical production cost. Tack on advertising, markup, etc. Then you have writers' and editors' salaries/fees etc. Do *not* underestimate the amount of time writing and editing a magazine takes! (I suspect Chris has a *real* good idea of this with his new position. ;) Volunteers will only carry you so far, after all. 96 pages is a lot of writing, too. After all, how many pages is the whole Handbook? ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 11:42:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4299D37B66D; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F5E161CE; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32061; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:42:12 -0400 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id ; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:41:40 -0400 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525696E.0066883D ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:39:55 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: Michael Lucas Cc: David Johnson , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, Joe Warner Message-Id: <8525696E.006687DF.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:42:29 -0600 Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yeah, well...it's better to try than to try not, right? 8^) Joe |--------+------------------------------> | | Michael Lucas | | | | | | | | | 10/04/00 11:28 AM | | | | |--------+------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: David Johnson | | cc: Joe Warner , | | freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, | | freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, (bcc: Joe | | Warner/SMS) | | Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser | | Responses) | >---------------------------------------------------------| > Are we already hitting a circular roadblock? Can't get a magazine until > we get advertisers, and we can't get advertisers until we get a > magazine... Yep. Good luck. ;) Sorry, not to be sarcastic here... I've fought this battle before (although not for BSD), and it's a long one. I can't help but simultaneously feel sorry for you, and skeptical of the results. But I certainly hope for success, and BSD has to win this fight *some* day. FWIW, the second magazine will spring up on its own, inspired by the first. ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 11:53:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C2337B503; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA74093; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:53:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:53:40 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Joe.Warner@smed.com Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001004145340.A74067@blackhelicopters.org> References: <8525696E.006687DF.00@Deimos.smed.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <8525696E.006687DF.00@Deimos.smed.com>; from Joe.Warner@smed.com on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 12:42:29PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [cc's trimmed] Absolutely. Don't get me wrong... this is just as silly an idea as "Hey, let's make it a school project to replace all the AT&T-encumbered UNIX code with unencumbered and improved replacements!" It's crazy, but it just might work. :) (You know, I have more requests to write articles than I have time for. Why am I even trying to push this? I must have a head like a brick. No, never mind, please avoid the obvious round of comments on what my head *really* resembles.) On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 12:42:29PM -0600, Joe.Warner@smed.com wrote: > Yeah, well...it's better to try than to try not, right? 8^) > > Joe -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 11:55:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AD6137B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE7D016185; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01656; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:55:26 -0400 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id ; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:54:46 -0400 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525696E.0067BC34 ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:53:03 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: Chris Coleman Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, Michael Lucas , Neurosys Message-Id: <8525696E.0067BB6B.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:55:35 -0600 Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a very good idea and one I hadn't thought of yet. If I am contacted by an advertiser who would be interested in providing some banner ads on Daemon News, who should I direct them to? The number of positive/interested responses I have received thus far, outweigh the negative ones and even if we don't succeed at getting a BSD magazine published, we will still have succeeded at getting the word out about the BSDs and the BSD community. The more people who are made aware of the BSDs, the more chance and likelihood there will be for the appearance of a BSD magazine on the news stands in the future. Joe |--------+-----------------------> | | Chris Coleman| | | | | | | | | 10/04/00 | | | 11:46 AM | | | | |--------+-----------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Neurosys | | cc: Michael Lucas | | , | | freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, | | freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, (bcc: Joe | | Warner/SMS) | | Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser | | Responses) | >---------------------------------------------------------| Well, if we can get these advertisers to start advertising on Daemon News, that would help us raise the capital to start a magazine. If advertisers see that putting banner ads on Daemon News helps sell their products, the will be more likely to advertise in a print magazine. Chris Coleman Daemon News http://www.daemonnews.org Bringing BSD together On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Neurosys wrote: > Listen. In order to make this 'business'. you need capital to start it. > Thats how you break the cycle. > > Neurosys > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Lucas" > To: "David Johnson" > Cc: "Joe Warner" ; ; > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 1:28 PM > Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > > > > Are we already hitting a circular roadblock? Can't get a magazine until > > > we get advertisers, and we can't get advertisers until we get a > > > magazine... > > > > Yep. Good luck. ;) > > > > Sorry, not to be sarcastic here... I've fought this battle before > > (although not for BSD), and it's a long one. I can't help but > > simultaneously feel sorry for you, and skeptical of the results. But > > I certainly hope for success, and BSD has to win this fight *some* > > day. > > > > FWIW, the second magazine will spring up on its own, inspired by the > > first. > > > > ==ml > > > > -- > > Michael Lucas > > mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org > > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ > > Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 12: 8:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A9F937B503; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fagan (fagan.pmr.com [10.1.0.22]) by pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA27199; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:07:52 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Message-ID: <02d401c02e35$e17a31c0$1600010a@pmr.com> From: "Steve Fagan" To: , "Chris Coleman" Cc: , , "Michael Lucas" , "Neurosys" References: <8525696E.0067BB6B.00@Deimos.smed.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:04:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Books like these should help get the word out better too. Metro X for Linux & FreeBSD Hardcover, Metro Link, Incorporated, January 2000 ISBN: 0967017211 Freebsd for Dummies Hardcover, 384 Pages, I D G Books Worldwide, October 2000 ISBN: 0764507702 Author: Anderson ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Chris Coleman" Cc: ; ; "Michael Lucas" ; "Neurosys" Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 1:55 PM Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > > This is a very good idea and one I hadn't thought of yet. > > If I am contacted by an advertiser who would be interested in > providing some banner ads on Daemon News, who should > I direct them to? > > The number of positive/interested responses I have received > thus far, outweigh the negative ones and even if we don't succeed > at getting a BSD magazine published, we will still have succeeded at > getting the word out about the BSDs and the BSD community. The > more people who are made aware of the BSDs, the more chance > and likelihood there will be for the appearance of a BSD magazine > on the news stands in the future. > > Joe > > > > |--------+-----------------------> > | | Chris Coleman| > | | | | x.com> | > | | | > | | 10/04/00 | > | | 11:46 AM | > | | | > |--------+-----------------------> > >---------------------------------------------------------| > | | > | To: Neurosys | > | cc: Michael Lucas | > | , | > | freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, | > | freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, (bcc: Joe | > | Warner/SMS) | > | Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser | > | Responses) | > >---------------------------------------------------------| > > > > > > Well, if we can get these advertisers to start advertising on Daemon News, > that would help us raise the capital to start a magazine. > > If advertisers see that putting banner ads on Daemon News helps sell their > products, the will be more likely to advertise in a print magazine. > > Chris Coleman > Daemon News > http://www.daemonnews.org > Bringing BSD together > > On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Neurosys wrote: > > > Listen. In order to make this 'business'. you need capital to start it. > > Thats how you break the cycle. > > > > Neurosys > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Lucas" > > To: "David Johnson" > > Cc: "Joe Warner" ; ; > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 1:28 PM > > Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > > > > > > > Are we already hitting a circular roadblock? Can't get a magazine > until > > > > we get advertisers, and we can't get advertisers until we get a > > > > magazine... > > > > > > Yep. Good luck. ;) > > > > > > Sorry, not to be sarcastic here... I've fought this battle before > > > (although not for BSD), and it's a long one. I can't help but > > > simultaneously feel sorry for you, and skeptical of the results. But > > > I certainly hope for success, and BSD has to win this fight *some* > > > day. > > > > > > FWIW, the second magazine will spring up on its own, inspired by the > > > first. > > > > > > ==ml > > > > > > -- > > > Michael Lucas > > > mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org > > > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ > > > Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 12:38:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.scana.com (falcon.scana.com [161.156.101.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4F837B503; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by falcon.scana.com; id PAA18783; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailexnet.scana.com(161.156.250.64) by falcon.scana.com via smap (V5.5) id xma018739; Wed, 4 Oct 00 15:38:00 -0400 Received: from msg16.scana.com [161.156.250.64] by msg16.scana.com [161.156.250.64] (CMSPraetor 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id 7DECB3EE9A0911D4A95400508BC21853 for plus 1 more; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 15:37:38 -0400 Received: by mailexnet.scana.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <42GTZXNG>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:37:38 -0400 From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" , "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Message-ID: Subject: RE: BSD Magazine (Potential Advertisers) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:37:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You may want to try Borland/Inprise as a potential advertiser. They have the #1 Java IDE and are coming out with a C++/Object Pascal RAD Tool for Linux. Currently they are only testing it on Linux, but as a developer, I would be more interested in developing in a more stable environment like FBSD. Most windows developers take this approach and work in win2K instead of win98. All of this assumes that their products run in Linux emulation mode. ...Michael... If this email was sent to you by mistake or if you are not an intended recipient, please delete it, destroy any hard copies, including attachments, and notify me by return email. The unauthorized use, distribution or reproduction of this email is prohibited and may be unlawful. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 12:49:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3104837B66C; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA5382; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:52:12 -0700 Message-ID: <39DB891F.4B09AB1A@acuson.com> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:46:39 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" , "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Potential Advertisers) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "SILVER, MICHAEL A" wrote: > > You may want to try Borland/Inprise as a potential advertiser. They have > the #1 Java IDE and are coming out with a C++/Object Pascal RAD Tool for > Linux. Speaking of Kylix, this just reminded me. The Kylix interface will be Qt, and so will Opera's. I recall in a interview somewhere that Opera is going to be ported to FreeBSD (and every other Unix) shortly after the official release of the Linux version because "all we have to do is recompile". Someone should contact Opera, as well as Trolltech. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 13: 1:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE93937B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e94K1eX93109; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:01:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: "Steve Fagan" Cc: Joe.Warner@smed.com, "Chris Coleman" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, "Michael Lucas" , "Neurosys" Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: Message from "Steve Fagan" of "Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:04:11 CDT." <02d401c02e35$e17a31c0$1600010a@pmr.com> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 13:01:40 -0700 Message-ID: <93106.970689700@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Freebsd for Dummies > Hardcover, 384 Pages, I D G Books Worldwide, October 2000 > ISBN: 0764507702 Is this actually for sale? I sure hope so since the last I'd heard of it, it had gotten cancelled! :( Where did you see this, if I may ask? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 13:25:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 560AB37B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:25:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fagan (fagan.pmr.com [10.1.0.22]) by pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA28267; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:25:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Message-ID: <030e01c02e40$c55c0260$1600010a@pmr.com> From: "Steve Fagan" To: "Steve Fagan" , "Jordan Hubbard" Cc: , "Chris Coleman" , , , "Michael Lucas" , "Neurosys" References: <93106.970689700@winston.osd.bsdi.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:22:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Looked it up on borders. www.borders.com I hope it is still going to be published. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Hubbard" To: "Steve Fagan" Cc: ; "Chris Coleman" ; ; ; "Michael Lucas" ; "Neurosys" Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 3:01 PM Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > Freebsd for Dummies > > Hardcover, 384 Pages, I D G Books Worldwide, October 2000 > > ISBN: 0764507702 > > Is this actually for sale? I sure hope so since the last I'd heard of > it, it had gotten cancelled! :( Where did you see this, if I may ask? > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 13:44:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 06FE737B66C for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 28605 invoked by alias); 4 Oct 2000 20:44:11 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.org@fixme Received: (qmail 28577 invoked by uid 0); 4 Oct 2000 20:44:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO uswest.net) (63.224.105.241) by slkcpop5.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2000 20:44:09 -0000 Message-ID: <39DB959F.C058C258@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:39:59 -0600 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Response Update) References: <93106.970689700@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <030e01c02e40$c55c0260$1600010a@pmr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok---> | home now I didn't receive as many responses today as I had hoped for but I guess, the day isn't over yet. Here is a response I got from Edwin Rothrock at Sys Admin magazine: >Joe, >As Publisher for Sys Admin magazine, I am quite familiar with BSD - have been >for a long time. As you may already know, Sys Admin is dedicated to providing >usable technical information to UNIX sys admins to use in their everyday work. >Sys Admin is version agnostic, so it will not be converting to a BSD exclusive >magazine, but regular articles on the administration of BSD have been part of >the editorial mix, and plans are to continue to expand that coverage (check out >the Freenix issue - January 2001). And I agree with your observation about >multiple version support - many of Sys Admin's advertisers support BSD as well >as other flavors. >I would be interested in seeing the results of your current research on >advertisers. >Edwin Rothrock >Publisher - Sys Admin Magazine >CMP Media, Inc. In my first email to him, I didn't ask if he could help with publishing a BSD focused magazine, I asked if he would be willing to provide advertising. I had Sys Admin in my list of potential contacts because I noticed an advertisement from them in this month's issue of Linux Journal. I relayed all of this in my last response to him and also asked if he/Sys Admin would be interested in providing a banner ad to be placed on Daemon News. I'm still awaiting his next response. Future updates will continue as I receive new information and thanks to those of you who have provided help and input this far. Joe Steve Fagan wrote: > Looked it up on borders. > > www.borders.com > > I hope it is still going to be published. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jordan Hubbard" > To: "Steve Fagan" > Cc: ; "Chris Coleman" ; > ; ; "Michael > Lucas" ; "Neurosys" > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 3:01 PM > Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > > > Freebsd for Dummies > > > Hardcover, 384 Pages, I D G Books Worldwide, October 2000 > > > ISBN: 0764507702 > > > > Is this actually for sale? I sure hope so since the last I'd heard of > > it, it had gotten cancelled! :( Where did you see this, if I may ask? > > > > - Jordan > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- FreeBSD = The Power to Serve ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 14: 9:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (mail2.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF2C37B503; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c497595a ([24.5.226.113]) by mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20001004210941.BPEF29897.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com@c497595a>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:09:41 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01c02e47$8c504380$71e20518@hlndpk1.il.home.com> From: "Ambrose, Christian" To: , Subject: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:10:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >magazine? Do you already have a dummy of your magazine you could show me? Interestring question, what do we have, what would we want to have? I think that we sould try to avoid covering what Daemonnews are O'Reilly, whould may end up meaning less newbie oriented. Is having a newbie orinted magizine a plus or minus? If we do focus on newbies, is it Windows newbies or Linux newbies. Also, we would want to distrubute CDs with each issue (al la Maximum Linux). And what would we put on the CD(s)? Personily, I think that it would be cool to have snapshots of the -CURRENT release of FreeBSD and what ever is equivable(sp?) for the others. Also, maybe source code on a second disk (if the shapshots do not take up all the space.) Christian Please excuse any spelling and grammatical mistakes, and also the over use of 'we' . -- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GU d- s+: a? C++++ BLU++>U++++ P+ L++ E W++ N+ o K- w O? M V?>V PS+++ PE Y+>Y++ PGP++ t+>t+++ 5 X+ R+ tv b++>b++++ DI+ D+ G>G++ e- h! !r !Z ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 14:27:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5231E37B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02635; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:27:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAgAaagf; Wed Oct 4 14:27:46 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA02572; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:27:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010042127.OAA02572@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) To: djohnson@acuson.com (David Johnson) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:27:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jswarner@uswest.net (Joe Warner), freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <39DB6660.6F47090B@acuson.com> from "David Johnson" at Oct 04, 2000 10:18:24 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > >Could you please give me more details about the readers you target, how > > many > > >magazines you want to print and in which areas you want to distribute your > > >magazine? Do you already have a dummy of your magazine you could show me? > > Are we already hitting a circular roadblock? Can't get a magazine until > we get advertisers, and we can't get advertisers until we get a > magazine... So _build_ a magazine instead of "get"ting it. You can't _build_ advertisers (you could maybe build "advertiser" -- singular). Anyone can publish anything they are willing to publish; it looks like the FreeBSD Really Quick Newsletter might be going this route: online publication, with people who like paper and maintaing their own immutable archives paying a premium to have it sent to them. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 14:31:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from relay4.san.cerf.net (relay4.san.cerf.net [192.215.81.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 721E937B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from penguin (host6.goalie-usa.com [12.17.221.245]) by relay4.san.cerf.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA09899; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:30:07 GMT Message-ID: <001501c02e4a$b42bc980$2c0100c0@goalieusa.com> From: "Larry Wells" To: "Ambrose, Christian" , , References: <002a01c02e47$8c504380$71e20518@hlndpk1.il.home.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:33:11 -0600 Organization: Goalie Entertainment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I, for one, would be a lot less interested in a magazine that catered exclusively to newbies. That's what books like the Complete FreeBSD book are for. (Not to mention many websites. FreeBSDDiary, Daemon News, etc..) I can see a column or article being focused on newcomers, but having a BSD magazine solely catering to that demographic would be demeaning to those of us who have been advocates for years. That being said, I would probably buy it anyway. Larry - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ambrose, Christian" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 3:10 PM Subject: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > >magazine? Do you already have a dummy of your magazine you could > >show me? > > Interestring question, what do we have, what would we want to > have? I think that we sould try to avoid covering what Daemonnews > are O'Reilly, whould may end up meaning less newbie oriented. Is > having a newbie orinted magizine a plus or minus? If we do focus > on newbies, is it Windows newbies or Linux newbies. > Also, we would want to distrubute CDs with each issue (al la > Maximum Linux). And what would we put on the CD(s)? Personily, I > think that it would be cool to have snapshots of the -CURRENT > release of FreeBSD and what ever is equivable(sp?) for the others. > Also, maybe source code on a second disk (if the shapshots do not > take up all the space.) > > Christian > > Please excuse any spelling and grammatical mistakes, and also the > over use of 'we' . > > > > -- > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version 3.12 > GU d- s+: a? C++++ BLU++>U++++ P+ L++ E W++ N+ o K- w O? M V?>V > PS+++ PE Y+>Y++ PGP++ t+>t+++ 5 X+ R+ tv b++>b++++ DI+ D+ G>G++ e- > h! !r !Z > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.8 iQA/AwUBOduiFROu6ZSB8kcSEQKT0ACeLqyVWoSYINuc4jWCHEX75fhp2PAAn1/7 rCap1Ebs9bUKYsznw8AU8S1V =2jZF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 14:33:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD65237B66C; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05062; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:34:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA7HaySj; Wed Oct 4 14:33:51 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA02773; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:33:27 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010042133.OAA02773@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) To: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:33:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: sfagan@pmr.com (Steve Fagan), Joe.Warner@smed.com, chrisc@vmunix.com (Chris Coleman), freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org (Michael Lucas), neurosys@bellsouth.net (Neurosys) In-Reply-To: <93106.970689700@winston.osd.bsdi.com> from "Jordan Hubbard" at Oct 04, 2000 01:01:40 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Freebsd for Dummies > > Hardcover, 384 Pages, I D G Books Worldwide, October 2000 > > ISBN: 0764507702 > > Is this actually for sale? I sure hope so since the last I'd heard of > it, it had gotten cancelled! :( Where did you see this, if I may ask? Why not just contact Annelise Anderson and ask her? If nothing else, she can be reached through the Hovver Institute. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 14:42:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5392B37B66C; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.41.153]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA1AB3; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:45:08 -0700 Message-ID: <39DBA39A.9D765A6A@acuson.com> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:39:38 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Larry Wells Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) References: <002a01c02e47$8c504380$71e20518@hlndpk1.il.home.com> <001501c02e4a$b42bc980$2c0100c0@goalieusa.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Larry Wells wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I, for one, would be a lot less interested in a magazine that catered > exclusively to newbies. That's what books like the Complete FreeBSD > book are for. (Not to mention many websites. FreeBSDDiary, Daemon > News, etc..) I can see a column or article being focused on > newcomers, but having a BSD magazine solely catering to that > demographic would be demeaning to those of us who have been advocates > for years. It would be best if it catered to all BSD users, not just newbies. A regular column for newbies is a must, but beyond that it should be general. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 14:50:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52C8A37B66C; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA11181; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:50:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAzeaOWv; Wed Oct 4 14:50:53 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA03151; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:50:31 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010042150.OAA03151@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) To: lwells@goalie-usa.com (Larry Wells) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:50:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: caa85@home.com (Ambrose Christian), freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <001501c02e4a$b42bc980$2c0100c0@goalieusa.com> from "Larry Wells" at Oct 04, 2000 03:33:11 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I, for one, would be a lot less interested in a magazine that catered > exclusively to newbies. A "dummy magazine" is a "mockup of the magazine", not a magazine for dummies. 8-) Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 14:50:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.runet.edu (peloton.runet.edu [137.45.96.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE50237B503; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.runet.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA48439; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:49:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.runet.edu) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:49:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Larry Wells Cc: "Ambrose, Christian" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: <001501c02e4a$b42bc980$2c0100c0@goalieusa.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I've stayed out of this until now but... (\me putting on Editor in Chief of DN Monthly hat) On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Larry Wells wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > I, for one, would be a lot less interested in a magazine that catered > exclusively to newbies. That's what books like the Complete FreeBSD > book are for. (Not to mention many websites. FreeBSDDiary, Daemon > News, etc..) While DN does cover some newbies articles, we have been trying to have at least one serious "Blueprints" article each month, detailing an advanced topic. In the last few months we've had: Dynamic Kernel Linker (KLD) Facility Programming Tutorial [Intro] An In-depth Study of NetBSD Bootstrapping and a Few Speedy Enhancements Writing an ISA device driver How to Write Kernel Drivers with NewBus And these are just the Blueprints articles - we've had more "non-newbie" articles as well. However we can only publish what we get. We've tried before to solicit articles on more advanced topics and ... frankly it's not been easy. I agree that a print magazine would be great but I don't want a rehashed version of the handbook for *BSD. Cripes, I'm not a programmer (okay, I do some, but the last serious thing I programmed was for my thesis and it was in Fortran), but I don't need to see lots of basic "how-to" articles. A few are good, but not a whole magazine worth. That said, and as Chris has mentioned, we at DN _are_ trying to figure out a way to go print. We tried this once before and things sort of fell through - try try again. But if someone else can do it, get to it. Don't sit on your butts waiting for us! (or on the other hand, get your butt over to us and HELP us) :-) (\me taking off EiC hat and back to work) Brett ***************************************************** Dr. Brett Taylor brett@peloton.runet.edu * Dept of Chem and Physics * Curie 39A (540) 831-6147 * ***************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 15:32:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB4937B502; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:32:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fagan (fagan.pmr.com [10.1.0.22]) by pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA30167; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:32:30 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Message-ID: <005401c02e52$75ba1820$1600010a@pmr.com> From: "Steve Fagan" To: "Jordan Hubbard" Cc: , "Chris Coleman" , , , "Michael Lucas" , "Neurosys" References: <93106.970689700@winston.osd.bsdi.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:28:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Barnes and Noble even has a date for it to ship. Freebsd for Dummies with Cdrom Annelise Anderson Our Price: $19.99 Retail Price: $24.99 You Save: $5.00 (20%) This book will be available October 8th, place your advance order now and we will ship it when it arrives! Format: Paperback, 384pp. ISBN: 0764507702 Publisher: IDG Books Worldwide Pub. Date: October 2000 sales rank: 460,225 Also found: Freebsd Corporate Network Guide Mittelstae Our Price: $45.95 This book will be available in December, place your advance order now and we will ship it when it arrives! Format: Paperback ISBN: 0201704811 Pub. Date: December 2000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Hubbard" To: "Steve Fagan" Cc: ; "Chris Coleman" ; ; ; "Michael Lucas" ; "Neurosys" Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 3:01 PM Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > Freebsd for Dummies > > Hardcover, 384 Pages, I D G Books Worldwide, October 2000 > > ISBN: 0764507702 > > Is this actually for sale? I sure hope so since the last I'd heard of > it, it had gotten cancelled! :( Where did you see this, if I may ask? > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 16:58:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pebkac.owp.csus.edu (pebkac.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD8137B66E; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from owp.csus.edu (oxqvcp@[130.86.77.19]) by pebkac.owp.csus.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA77846; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:57:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Message-ID: <39DBC2C1.5F865B8E@owp.csus.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 16:52:33 -0700 From: Joseph Scott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Fagan Cc: Jordan Hubbard , Joe.Warner@smed.com, Chris Coleman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, Michael Lucas , Neurosys Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) References: <93106.970689700@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <005401c02e52$75ba1820$1600010a@pmr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Fagan wrote: > > Barnes and Noble even has a date for it to ship. > > Freebsd for Dummies with Cdrom > Annelise Anderson > > Our Price: $19.99 > Retail Price: $24.99 > You Save: $5.00 (20%) > This book will be available October 8th, place your advance order now and we > will ship it when it arrives! > Format: Paperback, 384pp. > ISBN: 0764507702 > Publisher: IDG Books Worldwide > Pub. Date: October 2000 > sales rank: 460,225 > > Also found: > > Freebsd Corporate Network Guide > Mittelstae > > Our Price: $45.95 > This book will be available in December, place your advance order now and we > will ship it when it arrives! > Format: Paperback > ISBN: 0201704811 > Pub. Date: December 2000 A quick search for "freebsd" turned up the following at Amazon (under On Order/Not Yet Published) : --- FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide, The by Edward Mittelstaedt, Ted Mittelstaedt. Paperback (December 15, 2000) Our Price:$45.95 Freebsd for Dummies by Annelise Anderson. Paperback (October 2000) Our Price:$19.99 Sams Teach Yourself Freebsd in 21 Days by Michael Urban. Paperback (October 2000) Our Price:$31.99 --- I was under the impression that work had stopped on all/most of these, but I'd be happy to be wrong in this case. As I continued down the page I came across the "Out Of Print" section for my search, that included : --- Installing and Running Freebsd Powering Small Business With Freebsd (Sams White Book Series) by Robert Watson --- What happened to these two books? -- Joseph Scott joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu The Office Of Water Programs - CSU Sacramento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 19: 9:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EE9237B66D; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 58D0C328E; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:33:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43281328D; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:33:37 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:33:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Rick Hamell To: Joseph Scott Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: <39DBC2C1.5F865B8E@owp.csus.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Also found: > > > > Freebsd Corporate Network Guide > > Mittelstae > I was under the impression that work had stopped on all/most of > these, but I'd be happy to be wrong in this case. This one is coming out, I know for a fact. I was a proof reader on it and it's been through final edit back in August or so. :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 20:11:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C924137B672 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e953BE112574; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:41:14 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:41:14 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD advocacy list , advocacy@OpenBSD.org Subject: Re: Byte article on BSD Message-ID: <20001005124114.D12234@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FYI Greg ----- Forwarded message from Hubert Feyrer ----- > Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:40:36 +0200 (MET DST) > X-Sender: feyrer@rfhpc8320.fh-regensburg.de > To: netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG > Precedence: list > Delivered-To: netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG > > > A very nice general intro to BSD with little to no bias: > See http://www.byte.com/column/BYT20000927S0001 > > BTW, anyone want to write articles for some magazines? > If you need help, ideas, input, data, etc. be sure to let us know! :) > > > - Hubert > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 4 22: 0:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2135537B66C for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 22:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e954xji91801; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:59:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rab@pike.osd.bsdi.com) Message-Id: <200010050459.e954xji91801@pike.osd.bsdi.com> To: Joseph Scott Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 2000 16:52:33 PDT." <39DBC2C1.5F865B8E@owp.csus.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:59:45 -0700 From: "Robert A. Bruce" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joseph Scott said... > > As I continued down the page I came across the "Out Of Print" section >for my search, that included : > >--- >Installing and Running Freebsd This was a book written by Greg Lehey and published by WC-CDROM, that later evolved into "The Complete FreeBSD". -bob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 7:19:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E50E37B66E; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 07:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fagan (fagan.pmr.com [10.1.0.22]) by pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA41701; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:19:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Message-ID: <00ee01c02ed6$a14b0060$1600010a@pmr.com> From: "Steve Fagan" To: "Rick Hamell" , "Joseph Scott" Cc: , References: Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:14:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well atleast that is one for sure. Another possible advertiser. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Hamell" To: "Joseph Scott" Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 1:33 PM Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > > > Also found: > > > > > > Freebsd Corporate Network Guide > > > Mittelstae > > > I was under the impression that work had stopped on all/most of > > these, but I'd be happy to be wrong in this case. > > This one is coming out, I know for a fact. I was a proof reader on > it and it's been through final edit back in August or so. :) > > Rick > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 8:39:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F07EB37B66C; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fagan (fagan.pmr.com [10.1.0.22]) by pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA42844; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:39:14 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Message-ID: <010901c02ee1$d1398160$1600010a@pmr.com> From: "Steve Fagan" To: "Rick Hamell" , "Joseph Scott" Cc: , References: <00ee01c02ed6$a14b0060$1600010a@pmr.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:34:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm sorry. This title has been canceled. Thank you for your interest in IDG Books. Heidi Unger Online Customer Service Rep. IDG Books Worldwide www.idgbooks.com Darn!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Fagan" To: "Rick Hamell" ; "Joseph Scott" Cc: ; Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:14 AM Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > Well atleast that is one for sure. Another possible advertiser. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Hamell" > To: "Joseph Scott" > Cc: ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 1:33 PM > Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > > > > > > > Also found: > > > > > > > > Freebsd Corporate Network Guide > > > > Mittelstae > > > > > I was under the impression that work had stopped on all/most of > > > these, but I'd be happy to be wrong in this case. > > > > This one is coming out, I know for a fact. I was a proof reader on > > it and it's been through final edit back in August or so. :) > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 8:40:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B07CC37B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:40:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e95FeZi04651; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:40:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rab@pike.osd.bsdi.com) Message-Id: <200010051540.e95FeZi04651@pike.osd.bsdi.com> To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:14:52 CDT." <00ee01c02ed6$a14b0060$1600010a@pmr.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 08:40:34 -0700 From: "Robert A. Bruce" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It would be really great if the authors/publishers of new FreeBSD books could send email to webmaster@freebsdmall.com and let us know about these books. We can't sell your books if we don't know about them. It is great to see all these new FreeBSD books coming out, but it really sucks that they are all appearing on Amazon and BN before we have them available on our own site. In addition to listing the books on our website, we can also list them in our paper catalog that goes out semiannually to >100K BSD users. -bob >From: "Rick Hamell" >To: "Joseph Scott" >Cc: ; >Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 1:33 PM >Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > >> >> > > Also found: >> > > >> > > Freebsd Corporate Network Guide >> > > Mittelstae >> >> > I was under the impression that work had stopped on all/most of >> > these, but I'd be happy to be wrong in this case. >> >> This one is coming out, I know for a fact. I was a proof reader on >> it and it's been through final edit back in August or so. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 8:47:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9675937B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5176161E5; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24326; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:47:09 -0400 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 11:47:07 -0400 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525696F.00568B87 ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:45:17 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: "Robert A. Bruce" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-Id: <8525696F.005689C7.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:47:35 -0600 Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >It would be really great if the authors/publishers of new FreeBSD >books could send email to webmaster@freebsdmall.com and let us know >about these books. We can't sell your books if we don't know about >them. Has an effort been made to contact the authors/publishers regarding this? Joe |--------+-----------------------> | | "Robert A. | | | Bruce" | | | | | | | | | 10/05/00 | | | 09:40 AM | | | | |--------+-----------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, | | freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG | | cc: (bcc: Joe Warner/SMS) | | Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser | | Responses) | >---------------------------------------------------------| It would be really great if the authors/publishers of new FreeBSD books could send email to webmaster@freebsdmall.com and let us know about these books. We can't sell your books if we don't know about them. It is great to see all these new FreeBSD books coming out, but it really sucks that they are all appearing on Amazon and BN before we have them available on our own site. In addition to listing the books on our website, we can also list them in our paper catalog that goes out semiannually to >100K BSD users. -bob >From: "Rick Hamell" >To: "Joseph Scott" >Cc: ; >Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 1:33 PM >Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > >> >> > > Also found: >> > > >> > > Freebsd Corporate Network Guide >> > > Mittelstae >> >> > I was under the impression that work had stopped on all/most of >> > these, but I'd be happy to be wrong in this case. >> >> This one is coming out, I know for a fact. I was a proof reader on >> it and it's been through final edit back in August or so. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 9:41:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A21A37B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8152B328E; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:06:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E56A328D; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:06:12 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:06:12 +0000 (GMT) From: Rick Hamell Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: <010901c02ee1$d1398160$1600010a@pmr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm sorry. This title has been canceled. > > Thank you for your interest in IDG Books. > > Heidi Unger > Online Customer Service Rep. > IDG Books Worldwide > www.idgbooks.com > > Darn!!! Any one know why it's been cancled then? :( This is like the 2nd or third time this has happened. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 9:57:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from merlin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (merlin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB0BF37B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from envy.geekhouse.net (pool0833.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.195.68]) by merlin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00615; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jim@localhost) by envy.geekhouse.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e95GvC110726; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:57:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:57:09 -0700 From: Jim Mock To: Rick Hamell Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001005095708.C3264@envy.geekhouse.net> Reply-To: jim@lust.geekhouse.net References: <010901c02ee1$d1398160$1600010a@pmr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from hamellr@heorot.1nova.com on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 09:06:12AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 04 Oct 2000 at 09:06:12 +0000, Rick Hamell wrote: > > I'm sorry. This title has been canceled. > > > > Thank you for your interest in IDG Books. > > > > Heidi Unger > > Online Customer Service Rep. > > IDG Books Worldwide > > www.idgbooks.com > > > > Darn!!! > > Any one know why it's been cancled then? :( This is like the 2nd > or third time this has happened. According to the people at IDG I talked to (I was doing the technical review), it was a matter of deadlines. I've been trying to get the editor working with Annelise to reply to me for a while now without luck (I would love to pick this up). - jim -- jim mock work: jim@osd.bsdi.com | jim@FreeBSD.org http://soupnazi.org/ BSDi Open Source Div | http://bsdi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 10: 1:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EED537B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E9512328E; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:25:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39E5328D; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:25:36 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:25:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Rick Hamell To: Jim Mock Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: <20001005095708.C3264@envy.geekhouse.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Any one know why it's been cancled then? :( This is like the 2nd > > or third time this has happened. > > According to the people at IDG I talked to (I was doing the technical > review), it was a matter of deadlines. I've been trying to get the > editor working with Annelise to reply to me for a while now without luck > (I would love to pick this up). Cool, cause that was exactly what I was thinking. This is too valuable to let it drop. This needs to be done! In my opinion, little else will give FreeBSD a better image then a good 'Dummies' book. :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 12: 0: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from envy.geekhouse.net (envy.geekhouse.net [64.81.6.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DBAA37B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jim@localhost) by envy.geekhouse.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e95Ixnx47039; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:59:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:59:48 -0700 From: Jim Mock To: Rick Hamell Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001005115947.A43895@envy.geekhouse.net> Reply-To: jim@lust.geekhouse.net References: <20001005095708.C3264@envy.geekhouse.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from hamellr@heorot.1nova.com on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 09:25:36AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 04 Oct 2000 at 09:25:36 +0000, Rick Hamell wrote: > > > Any one know why it's been cancled then? :( This is like the 2nd > > > or third time this has happened. > > > > According to the people at IDG I talked to (I was doing the technical > > review), it was a matter of deadlines. I've been trying to get the > > editor working with Annelise to reply to me for a while now without luck > > (I would love to pick this up). > > Cool, cause that was exactly what I was thinking. This is too > valuable to let it drop. This needs to be done! In my opinion, little > else will give FreeBSD a better image then a good 'Dummies' book. :) I just talked to Greg Croy from IDG -- he was the editor handling FreeBSD for Dummies. He said that IDG doesn't have any interest in publishing FreeBSD for Dummies anymore because they don't have enough confidence the market is large enough to ensure it's success. In other words, their risk is too great :-( - jim -- jim mock work: jim@osd.bsdi.com | jim@FreeBSD.org http://soupnazi.org/ BSDi Open Source Div | http://bsdi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 12: 1:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pmr.com (pmr.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FA937B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fagan (fagan.pmr.com [10.1.0.22]) by pmr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA45887; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:01:35 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from sfagan@pmr.com) Message-ID: <016401c02efe$0f2619e0$1600010a@pmr.com> From: "Steve Fagan" To: , "Rick Hamell" Cc: , References: <20001005095708.C3264@envy.geekhouse.net> <20001005115947.A43895@envy.geekhouse.net> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:57:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So would it help if we sent mails to them or something along those lines. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Mock" To: "Rick Hamell" Cc: ; Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:59 PM Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > On Wed, 04 Oct 2000 at 09:25:36 +0000, Rick Hamell wrote: > > > > Any one know why it's been cancled then? :( This is like the 2nd > > > > or third time this has happened. > > > > > > According to the people at IDG I talked to (I was doing the technical > > > review), it was a matter of deadlines. I've been trying to get the > > > editor working with Annelise to reply to me for a while now without luck > > > (I would love to pick this up). > > > > Cool, cause that was exactly what I was thinking. This is too > > valuable to let it drop. This needs to be done! In my opinion, little > > else will give FreeBSD a better image then a good 'Dummies' book. :) > > I just talked to Greg Croy from IDG -- he was the editor handling > FreeBSD for Dummies. He said that IDG doesn't have any interest in > publishing FreeBSD for Dummies anymore because they don't have enough > confidence the market is large enough to ensure it's success. In other > words, their risk is too great :-( > > - jim > > -- > jim mock work: jim@osd.bsdi.com | jim@FreeBSD.org > http://soupnazi.org/ BSDi Open Source Div | http://bsdi.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 12: 6:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC0837B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:06:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA79458; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:06:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:06:13 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Jim Mock Cc: Rick Hamell , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001005150613.A79428@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20001005095708.C3264@envy.geekhouse.net> <20001005115947.A43895@envy.geekhouse.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20001005115947.A43895@envy.geekhouse.net>; from jim@lust.geekhouse.net on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 11:59:48AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 11:59:48AM -0700, Jim Mock wrote: > I just talked to Greg Croy from IDG -- he was the editor handling > FreeBSD for Dummies. He said that IDG doesn't have any interest in > publishing FreeBSD for Dummies anymore because they don't have enough > confidence the market is large enough to ensure it's success. In other > words, their risk is too great :-( I've had this same experience dealing with publishers about my FreeBSD book. The most interested party wound up turning me down in favor of another FreeBSD beginner's book. The beginners' market is quickly filling up with contracted books. There's a slew of publishers who are willing to publish *advanced* BSD books, if you can write both device drivers and documentation. Personally, I've given up on pushing a BSD book until I can saturate the market with articles and become too large a force to resist. And there's a *long* way to go until then. ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 12: 8:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D8E537B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA79484; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:08:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:08:12 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Steve Fagan Cc: jim@lust.geekhouse.net, Rick Hamell , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001005150812.B79428@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20001005095708.C3264@envy.geekhouse.net> <20001005115947.A43895@envy.geekhouse.net> <016401c02efe$0f2619e0$1600010a@pmr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <016401c02efe$0f2619e0$1600010a@pmr.com>; from sfagan@pmr.com on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 01:57:07PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 01:57:07PM -0500, Steve Fagan wrote: > So would it help if we sent mails to them or something along those lines. The open source camps are well known for narrow, but deep, advocacy. I'd recommend putting your efforts towards other publishers. It would help, say, Addison-Wesley to make the plunge if you wrote them asking for a FreeBSD book. IDG has been wavering for a while, sadly. :( -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 12: 8:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from envy.geekhouse.net (envy.geekhouse.net [64.81.6.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9778B37B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:08:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jim@localhost) by envy.geekhouse.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e95J8J653771; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:08:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:08:18 -0700 From: Jim Mock To: Steve Fagan Cc: Rick Hamell , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001005120817.C43895@envy.geekhouse.net> Reply-To: jim@lust.geekhouse.net References: <20001005095708.C3264@envy.geekhouse.net> <20001005115947.A43895@envy.geekhouse.net> <016401c02efe$0f2619e0$1600010a@pmr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <016401c02efe$0f2619e0$1600010a@pmr.com>; from sfagan@pmr.com on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 01:57:07PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 at 13:57:07 -0500, Steve Fagan wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Mock" > To: "Rick Hamell" > Cc: ; > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:59 PM > Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > > > On Wed, 04 Oct 2000 at 09:25:36 +0000, Rick Hamell wrote: > > > > > Any one know why it's been cancled then? :( This is like the 2nd > > > > > or third time this has happened. > > > > > > > > According to the people at IDG I talked to (I was doing the > > > > technical review), it was a matter of deadlines. I've been > > > > trying to get the editor working with Annelise to reply to me > > > > for a while now without luck (I would love to pick this up). > > > > > > Cool, cause that was exactly what I was thinking. This is too > > > valuable to let it drop. This needs to be done! In my opinion, > > > little else will give FreeBSD a better image then a good 'Dummies' > > > book. :) > > > > I just talked to Greg Croy from IDG -- he was the editor handling > > FreeBSD for Dummies. He said that IDG doesn't have any interest in > > publishing FreeBSD for Dummies anymore because they don't have > > enough confidence the market is large enough to ensure it's > > success. In other words, their risk is too great :-( > > So would it help if we sent mails to them or something along those > lines. Possibly. I'm not sure how much a few emails will accomplish though. They seem pretty set in their decision. If you do really want to see such a book though, you can send feedback to custserdum@idgbooks.com. See http://www.dummies.com/email.html for more contact information. - jim -- jim mock work: jim@osd.bsdi.com | jim@FreeBSD.org http://soupnazi.org/ BSDi Open Source Div | http://bsdi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 12:11:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from envy.geekhouse.net (envy.geekhouse.net [64.81.6.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB6037B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jim@localhost) by envy.geekhouse.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e95JAqs56346; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:10:50 -0700 From: Jim Mock To: Michael Lucas Cc: Steve Fagan , Rick Hamell , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001005121049.D43895@envy.geekhouse.net> Reply-To: jim@lust.geekhouse.net References: <20001005095708.C3264@envy.geekhouse.net> <20001005115947.A43895@envy.geekhouse.net> <016401c02efe$0f2619e0$1600010a@pmr.com> <20001005150812.B79428@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001005150812.B79428@blackhelicopters.org>; from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:08:12PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 at 15:08:12 -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: > On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 01:57:07PM -0500, Steve Fagan wrote: > > So would it help if we sent mails to them or something along those > > lines. > > The open source camps are well known for narrow, but deep, advocacy. > > I'd recommend putting your efforts towards other publishers. It would > help, say, Addison-Wesley to make the plunge if you wrote them asking > for a FreeBSD book. IDG has been wavering for a while, sadly. :( Addison-Wesley has at least two that I know of on the way RSN. One is Ted Mittelstaedt's, and the other is by Dan Langille and Chuck Rouillard. - jim -- jim mock work: jim@osd.bsdi.com | jim@FreeBSD.org http://soupnazi.org/ BSDi Open Source Div | http://bsdi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 13:20: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B2937B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 771C2328E; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:44:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A7E328D; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:44:15 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:44:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Rick Hamell To: Michael Lucas Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: <20001005150812.B79428@blackhelicopters.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The open source camps are well known for narrow, but deep, advocacy. > > I'd recommend putting your efforts towards other publishers. It would > help, say, Addison-Wesley to make the plunge if you wrote them asking > for a FreeBSD book. IDG has been wavering for a while, sadly. :( Addison-Wesley is doing the Corporate Networkers Guide to FreeBSD (whatever the title is... I can't remeber for sure...:) I'll find out if they'd be interested in doing a beginner's book & what their submission guidelines are. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 13:34:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from exchange.nils.lib.il.us (mailsrv.nils.lib.il.us [206.190.22.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D4D37B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by EXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:34:30 -0500 Message-ID: <3073B3378589D411B21600508BAF32AA18A225@EXCHANGE> From: Nathan Williams To: 'Rick Hamell' Cc: "'advocacy@freebsd.org'" , "'newbies@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:34:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I know, I subscribe to both so I'm getting every message twice. I'm just saying it should probably be moved there. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Hamell [SMTP:hamellr@heorot.1nova.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 7:56 AM > To: Nathan Williams > Subject: RE: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > > It's being cross posted to advocacy. :) > > Rick > > On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Nathan Williams wrote: > > > I agree with Wayne. The thread should probably be moved to advocacy. > > Nathan Williams > > nathanw@nils.lib.il.us > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rick Hamell [SMTP:hamellr@heorot.1nova.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 7:48 AM > > > To: Wayne Sheppard > > > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org > > > Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) > > > > > > > > > > Does this magazine stuff really belong on freebsd-newbies? I have > no > > > idea > > > > what belongs here, but 100+ messages about creating a BSD magazine > seems > > > too > > > > many for a list.designed for * newbies activities * > > > > > > > > Please don't flame me. If this topic is appropriate for this list, > I'll > > > > just unsubscribe quietly. > > > > > > I believe so... it started partially as a way for newbies to get > > > help on FreeBSD. I believe it is still relevant as newbies are the > ones > > > who have to drive FreeBSD into the market to eventually get the > changes > > > "we" may want. Without a growing newbie population, FreeBSD will end > up > > > being used by a few crusty old sysadmins sitting around "when I was > your > > > age, Microsoft only had 5 versions of Windows! And we still didn't > like > > > it!" :) > > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 14:10: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E9D037B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA80212; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:09:58 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:09:58 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Rick Hamell Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20001005150812.B79428@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from hamellr@heorot.1nova.com on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 12:44:15PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 12:44:15PM +0000, Rick Hamell wrote: > > Addison-Wesley is doing the Corporate Networkers Guide to FreeBSD > (whatever the title is... I can't remeber for sure...:) I'll find out if > they'd be interested in doing a beginner's book & what their submission > guidelines are. > They're also doing a beginner's book. I was in the process of doing a book with them when they decided to go with Dan Langille (sp?), the freebsddiary.org dude. Been there, done that. ;) ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 14:17:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9623937B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 95200328E; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:41:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8225B328D; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:41:32 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:41:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Rick Hamell To: Michael Lucas Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > They're also doing a beginner's book. I was in the process of doing a > book with them when they decided to go with Dan Langille (sp?), the > freebsddiary.org dude. Dang... well, who does the xxx in 21 days or 24 hour books? Or are they doing one too? :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 14:46:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D8B237B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14996; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:45:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA8JaO9C; Thu Oct 5 14:44:48 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15494; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:46:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010052146.OAA15494@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) To: jim@lust.geekhouse.net Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:46:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hamellr@heorot.1nova.com (Rick Hamell), freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001005115947.A43895@envy.geekhouse.net> from "Jim Mock" at Oct 05, 2000 11:59:48 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jim Mock wrote: > I just talked to Greg Croy from IDG -- he was the editor handling > FreeBSD for Dummies. He said that IDG doesn't have any interest in > publishing FreeBSD for Dummies anymore because they don't have enough > confidence the market is large enough to ensure it's success. In other > words, their risk is too great :-( Email address where we can promise to buy N copies, where N >= 1, please. I'd buy one just to have Annelise sign my copy at the "FreeBSD for Dummies" book-signing party that will surely occur at the BAFUG/BABUG meeting following its publication. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 14:50:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CF0E37B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEFFA1622D; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10795; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:50:11 -0400 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:50:03 -0400 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525696F.0077C6C6 ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:48:16 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: Rick Hamell Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, Michael Lucas Message-Id: <8525696F.0077C596.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:50:48 -0600 Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anybody tried to contact any advertisers re: the original subject of this thread? If so, did you receive any responses? Thanks Joe |--------+--------------------------> | | Rick Hamell | | | | | | | | | 10/04/00 07:41 | | | AM | | | | |--------+--------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Michael Lucas | | | | cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, | | freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, (bcc: Joe Warner/SMS)| | Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser | | Responses) | >---------------------------------------------------------| > They're also doing a beginner's book. I was in the process of doing a > book with them when they decided to go with Dan Langille (sp?), the > freebsddiary.org dude. Dang... well, who does the xxx in 21 days or 24 hour books? Or are they doing one too? :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 14:52:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98AF837B66C; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04332; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:49:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAASWaO2h; Thu Oct 5 14:49:23 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15722; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:51:54 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010052151.OAA15722@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) To: mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org (Michael Lucas) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:51:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jim@lust.geekhouse.net (Jim Mock), hamellr@heorot.1nova.com (Rick Hamell), freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001005150613.A79428@blackhelicopters.org> from "Michael Lucas" at Oct 05, 2000 03:06:13 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > There's a slew of publishers who are willing to publish *advanced* BSD > books, if you can write both device drivers and documentation. I will write one of these, if FreeBSD ever freezes its kernel APIs long enough to do so accurately. The problem with writing an advanced book is that FreeBSD will not commit to the moral equivalent of DDI/DKI, and revises its APIs too frequently for the time it takes to do an advanced book. Unlike beginner books, advanced books take about 2080 hours for an author to complete. For the math-concious among you, you will recognize that as 40 hours/week * 52 weeks/year, or about one year of full time work. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 15:26:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from epsilon.lucida.qc.ca (epsilon.lucida.qc.ca [216.95.146.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7EBDE37B503 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 88995 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Oct 2000 22:26:26 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Oct 2000 22:26:26 -0000 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:26:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Matt Heckaman X-Sender: matt@epsilon.lucida.qc.ca To: Terry Lambert Cc: FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: <200010052151.OAA15722@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Rating: localhost 1.6.2 0/1000/N Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Terry Lambert wrote: ... : Unlike beginner books, advanced books take about 2080 hours for : an author to complete. For the math-concious among you, you : will recognize that as 40 hours/week * 52 weeks/year, or about : one year of full time work. It's almost so easy to mentally misplace the realization of how much can go into these books. I'm greatful for them though, without the Complete FreeBSD book and the online resources, (and my holy grail: DNS & BIND 3rd ed. O'Reilly :P) - I would have been so lost. It would be nice to see more FreeBSD specific books. Hell, I would like to see a firewall book based off FreeBSD's ipfw. AFAIK the O'Reilly books is based off ipfilter, but don't quote me on that. One could always translate between ipfilter and ipfw, but that is NOT something to be doing when you're trying to learn something. : Terry Lambert : terry@lambert.org * Matt Heckaman - mailto:matt@lucida.qc.ca http://www.lucida.qc.ca/ * * GPG fingerprint - A9BC F3A8 278E 22F2 9BDA BFCF 74C3 2D31 C035 5390 * -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.3 (FreeBSD) Comment: http://www.lucida.qc.ca/pgp iD8DBQE53QARdMMtMcA1U5ARAqtvAKC6OxljQ8mnPf/vDpVF8jdrIERQcwCfXotA /tKSD3EGTw9JhQupF46aN3s= =dXqF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 16: 0:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 774C037B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e95MxPi18991; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:59:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rab@pike.osd.bsdi.com) Message-Id: <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com> To: Michael Lucas Cc: Rick Hamell , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, rab@pike.osd.bsdi.com Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:09:58 EDT." <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:59:25 -0700 From: "Robert A. Bruce" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Lucas said... >On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 12:44:15PM +0000, Rick Hamell wrote: >> >> Addison-Wesley is doing the Corporate Networkers Guide to FreeBSD >> (whatever the title is... I can't remeber for sure...:) I'll find out if >> they'd be interested in doing a beginner's book & what their submission >> guidelines are. >> > >They're also doing a beginner's book. I was in the process of doing a >book with them when they decided to go with Dan Langille (sp?), the >freebsddiary.org dude. If you are looking for a publisher, please let me know. BSDi publishes The FreeBSD Handbook, and The Complete FreeBSD. We are looking for new BSD books to publish. Some specific topics we are looking for are corporate/enterprise, ISPs, embedded systems, and security, but we are happy to consider anything BSD related. -bob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 16: 4:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE1637B502 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e95N4Se10185; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:04:28 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Robert A. Bruce" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001005160428.S27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com>; from rab@pike.osd.bsdi.com on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:59:25PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Robert A. Bruce [001005 16:00] wrote: > Michael Lucas said... > >On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 12:44:15PM +0000, Rick Hamell wrote: > >> > >> Addison-Wesley is doing the Corporate Networkers Guide to FreeBSD > >> (whatever the title is... I can't remeber for sure...:) I'll find out if > >> they'd be interested in doing a beginner's book & what their submission > >> guidelines are. > >> > > > >They're also doing a beginner's book. I was in the process of doing a > >book with them when they decided to go with Dan Langille (sp?), the > >freebsddiary.org dude. > > If you are looking for a publisher, please let me know. BSDi publishes > The FreeBSD Handbook, and The Complete FreeBSD. We are looking for > new BSD books to publish. Some specific topics we are looking for > are corporate/enterprise, ISPs, embedded systems, and security, but we > are happy to consider anything BSD related. Since you opened the door... A core-team calendar would be an interesting novelty item. Or just a calendar in general that lists expected release dates and FreeBSD events such as the Con, USENIX, DEFCON, COMDEX, etc.. Or you could combine the ideas... :) You could use pictures from various events/expos and the new adverts for the pictures as well. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 16:19:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE7837B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parish ([62.253.85.57]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001006001829.ZFBJ23965.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@parish>; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:18:29 +0000 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e95NJ5a01001; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:19:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:18:58 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: "Robert A. Bruce" Cc: Michael Lucas , Rick Hamell , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001006001858.B252@parish> References: <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com>; from rab@pike.osd.bsdi.com on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:59:25PM -0700 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 03:59:25PM -0700, Robert A. Bruce wrote: > > If you are looking for a publisher, please let me know. BSDi publishes > The FreeBSD Handbook, and The Complete FreeBSD. We are looking for > new BSD books to publish. Some specific topics we are looking for > are corporate/enterprise, ISPs, embedded systems, and security, but we > are happy to consider anything BSD related. > Are there any plans to set up distribution of these 2 books (and any more you may publish) in mainstream bookshops outside the US (e.g. Europe). If you search for either book on the websites of any major UK bookshops (Dillons, Waterstones, Blackwells etc) they always come back "not found". I appreciate that publishing books is not the main business of WC/BSDi and so setting up international distribution may be difficult and/or expensive but is it not possible to come to an arrangement with another publisher with established international distribution channels, and for whom the books pose no commercial competition, to distribute them for you? In the past year in one of these shops I visit fairly regularly there has been a noticeable increase in the number of Linux and Linux-related books on the shelves (and a corresponding decrease in Windows books) so it would be good to see the FreeBSD Handbook and TCFBSD alongside them (plus FreeBSD for Dummies, FreeBSD for Sysadmins, etc., etc.). > -bob > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- 4.4 - The number of the Beastie ________________________________________________________________ 51.44°N FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org 2.057°W My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark mailto:marko@freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 18:19:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714A737B66C; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1E0AF239A47; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:19:17 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Joe.Warner@smed.com Cc: Chris Coleman , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, Michael Lucas , Neurosys Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001005181917.K23587@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <8525696E.0067BB6B.00@Deimos.smed.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <8525696E.0067BB6B.00@Deimos.smed.com>; from Joe.Warner@smed.com on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 12:55:35PM -0600 Organization: daemonnews Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2000-10-04 12:55 -0600, Joe.Warner@smed.com wrote: > > > This is a very good idea and one I hadn't thought of yet. > > If I am contacted by an advertiser who would be interested in > providing some banner ads on Daemon News, who should > I direct them to? You can direct them to sales@daemonnews.org or have them look at the Daemon News Mall, . The mall sells all kinds of BSD products, including advertising on DN. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Bureaucrats cut red tape--lengthwise. mailto:gsutter@daemonnews.org PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 18:35:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A2837B66C for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F365F1C66; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:35:40 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: Matt Heckaman Cc: Terry Lambert , FreeBSD-ADVOCACY Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001005213540.V38472@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: <200010052151.OAA15722@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from matt@ARPA.MAIL.NET on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 06:26:24PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 06:26:24PM -0400, Matt Heckaman wrote: > Hell, I would like to see a firewall book based off FreeBSD's ipfw. AFAIK > the O'Reilly books is based off ipfilter, but don't quote me on that. One > could always translate between ipfilter and ipfw, but that is NOT > something to be doing when you're trying to learn something. I don't think there's enough material to cover a whole book on ipfw without duplicating other firewalling books. On that note, if someone approached me with a large enough check, I'd love to write a chapter or two in the excellent ORA Building Internet Firewall about FreeBSD + ipfw + other things to firewall. -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect, BOFH / Chimes, Inc. billf@chimesnet.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 20:30: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233A437B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA58163; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:29:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:29:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Joseph Scott Cc: Steve Fagan , Jordan Hubbard , Joe.Warner@smed.com, Chris Coleman , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, Michael Lucas , Neurosys Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: <39DBC2C1.5F865B8E@owp.csus.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Joseph Scott wrote: > Installing and Running Freebsd Dunno about this one. > Powering Small Business With Freebsd (Sams White Book Series) > by Robert Watson One day, my e-mails to my editor stopped being answered--I'm guessing that they canceled the book and forgot to tell me. I haven't heard back from them since. They have over half of the book, and did technical edits on at least the first third. I've given up on it at this point, occasionally I'd send another chapter and say, ``Here, look, good stuff, are you there yet?'' or the like, but to no avail. Robert N M Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 TIS Labs at Network Associates, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 21:30:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [171.66.112.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 533F737B502; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA53998; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:20:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson To: Terry Lambert Cc: jim@lust.geekhouse.net, Rick Hamell , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-Reply-To: <200010052146.OAA15494@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG They really cancelled the contract--I asked them to reconsider, and they spent a month reconsidering. The book is now 3/4 done. Well, maybe that's a little bit of an overstatement. But close to that. Within a month of being finished. I was quite disappointed, not only because I've done quite a lot of work on it but also because I think it's needed. I was surprised at how much stuff is unexplained. I agree with Terry's estimate on how long it takes to write an "advanced" book. Even writing something you know cold takes time, because every word has to be written--and formatted. I am, though, interested in another publisher, and am just beginning to look around. A few people apparently pre-ordered the book on the Dummies web site; I guess not enough! How I would love to have Terry Lambert's autograph on a book I wrote about FreeBSD! Annelise On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Terry Lambert wrote: > Jim Mock wrote: > > I just talked to Greg Croy from IDG -- he was the editor handling > > FreeBSD for Dummies. He said that IDG doesn't have any interest in > > publishing FreeBSD for Dummies anymore because they don't have enough > > confidence the market is large enough to ensure it's success. In other > > words, their risk is too great :-( > > Email address where we can promise to buy N copies, where N >= 1, > please. I'd buy one just to have Annelise sign my copy at the > "FreeBSD for Dummies" book-signing party that will surely occur > at the BAFUG/BABUG meeting following its publication. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 22:31:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FB237B503; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA10249; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAKZa45t; Thu Oct 5 22:29:42 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA23164; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:31:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200010060531.WAA23164@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) To: rab@pike.osd.bsdi.com (Robert A. Bruce) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 05:31:11 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org (Michael Lucas), hamellr@heorot.1nova.com (Rick Hamell), freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, rab@pike.osd.bsdi.com In-Reply-To: <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com> from "Robert A. Bruce" at Oct 05, 2000 03:59:25 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If you are looking for a publisher, please let me know. BSDi publishes > The FreeBSD Handbook, and The Complete FreeBSD. We are looking for > new BSD books to publish. Some specific topics we are looking for > are corporate/enterprise, ISPs, embedded systems, and security, but we > are happy to consider anything BSD related. FWIW, the last time I was at Fry's, they had a 4.0 version of FreeBSD bundled with the book. Because I was using 4.1, and was willing to pay for the CD set for 4.1, and was willing to support the idea of the book, I would have bought the set, but the media was 4.0. I would have been willing to buy the book seperately. I would have been willing to buy the 4.1 CD set seperately. Bundled as they were, I couldn't really talk myself into buying the set. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 5 23:20: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from isy.liu.se (isy.liu.se [130.236.48.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5807837B502 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lagrange.isy.liu.se (lagrange.isy.liu.se [130.236.49.127]) by isy.liu.se (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e966Jrn11331; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:19:53 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <001501c02e4a$b42bc980$2c0100c0@goalieusa.com> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:19:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Micke Josefsson To: lwells@goalie-usa.com Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, "Ambrose, Christian" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 04-Oct-00 Larry Wells wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I, for one, would be a lot less interested in a magazine that catered > exclusively to newbies. That's what books like the Complete FreeBSD > book are for. (Not to mention many websites. FreeBSDDiary, Daemon > News, etc..) I can see a column or article being focused on > newcomers, but having a BSD magazine solely catering to that > demographic would be demeaning to those of us who have been advocates > for years. I agree. A purely newbie oriented rag would not attract me. I would like to see both newbie AND not-so newbie articles, but also columns for the other wonderful thing you can do with the OS. Let there be colums/tutorials for device driver writing, hardware interfacing, picoBSD, etc. I recently had great fun with /dev/ppi interfacing a HD44780 LCD display and modifying the code and see what actually happened on an attached logic analyzer. ---------------------------------- Michael Josefsson, MSEE mj@isy.liu.se This message was sent by XFMail running on FreeBSD 3.5-STABLE ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 6 5:38:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (unknown [194.128.198.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE2F37B66E for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 05:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e96Bw8w02359; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:58:08 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:58:08 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: "Robert A. Bruce" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001006125808.A2330@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com> <20001005160428.S27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001005160428.S27736@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:04:28PM -0700 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:04:28PM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > A core-team calendar would be an interesting novelty item. Excuse me, I have to go take a shower now. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 6 5:38:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (unknown [194.128.198.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B9937B66E; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 05:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e96C5hW02376; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:05:43 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:05:42 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Mark Ovens Cc: Michael Lucas , Rick Hamell , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001006130542.B2330@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com> <20001006001858.B252@parish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001006001858.B252@parish>; from marko@freebsd.org on Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 12:18:58AM +0100 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 12:18:58AM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > Are there any plans to set up distribution of these 2 books (and any more > you may publish) in mainstream bookshops outside the US (e.g. Europe). If > you search for either book on the websites of any major UK bookshops > (Dillons, Waterstones, Blackwells etc) they always come back "not found". Great idea, and it needs to happen. Work is in progress on this. Discussions are taking place, meetings with distributors are happening. I can't talk about specifics, or timescales, but this is an issue that is being worked on. Feel free to go in to Dillons et al, and ask them why they don't carry the book you want to buy. Sooner or later they'll notice that "FreeBSD" keeps coming up as a search time on their internal inventory system, and that'll assist the process we're going through. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 6 7:20:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7009037B503; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 07:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA83769; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:20:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:20:45 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Nik Clayton Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001006102045.A83635@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com> <20001005160428.S27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001006125808.A2330@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20001006125808.A2330@canyon.nothing-going-on.org>; from nik@FreeBSD.ORG on Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 12:58:08PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 12:58:08PM +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:04:28PM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > A core-team calendar would be an interesting novelty item. > > Excuse me, I have to go take a shower now. I think this falls under "while you're at it, ask Santa for a pony." If I don't have any ideas of what I'm doing next week, I certainly wouldn't expect them to. (Oh, wait... yeah, I have to finish the blasted MagicPoint presentation for my BSDCon talk.) -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 6 7:41:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.intop.net (smtp.intop.net [206.156.254.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A55937B503 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 07:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from charlie (iwkcpe.intop.net [208.149.79.30]) by smtp.intop.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03156 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:42:55 -0500 Message-Id: <200010061442.JAA03156@smtp.intop.net> From: "Charlie Schloemer" To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:44:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) In-reply-to: References: <001501c02e4a$b42bc980$2c0100c0@goalieusa.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 6 Oct 00, at 8:19, Micke Josefsson wrote: > > On 04-Oct-00 Larry Wells wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > I, for one, would be a lot less interested in a magazine that catered > > exclusively to newbies. That's what books like the Complete FreeBSD > > book are for. (Not to mention many websites. FreeBSDDiary, Daemon > > News, etc..) I can see a column or article being focused on > > newcomers, but having a BSD magazine solely catering to that > > demographic would be demeaning to those of us who have been advocates > > for years. > > I agree. A purely newbie oriented rag would not attract me. I would like to see > both newbie AND not-so newbie articles, but also columns for the other wonderful > thing you can do with the OS. Let there be colums/tutorials for device driver > writing, hardware interfacing, picoBSD, etc. I recently had great fun with > /dev/ppi interfacing a HD44780 LCD display and modifying the code and see what > actually happened on an attached logic analyzer. > > ---------------------------------- > Michael Josefsson, MSEE > mj@isy.liu.se Would advanced topics in articles really exclude newbies? When I was a newbie, I jumped into plenty of things that were supposed to be over my head. Some of them were, but as newbies habitually meet new and unfamiliar topics head-on, one day they wake up and they're not newbies anymore. :-) The reverse would not be true though: veterans of the OS would still grow weary of learning (again) how to type ls. $0.02 de charlie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 6 8:22: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C033D37B503 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 329DB1C7B; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:21:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:21:49 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: Charlie Schloemer Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001006112149.F38472@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: <001501c02e4a$b42bc980$2c0100c0@goalieusa.com> <200010061442.JAA03156@smtp.intop.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200010061442.JAA03156@smtp.intop.net>; from charlie@infoworks.net on Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 09:44:55AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 09:44:55AM -0500, Charlie Schloemer wrote: > Would advanced topics in articles really exclude newbies? When I > was a newbie, I jumped into plenty of things that were supposed to > be over my head. Some of them were, but as newbies habitually > meet new and unfamiliar topics head-on, one day they wake up > and they're not newbies anymore. :-) ... and the neat thing about print is that 2 years later they can pick up the magazine and those articles that were over their head now seem like pleasant reading. -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect, BOFH / Chimes, Inc. billf@chimesnet.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 6 9:43:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FD1F37B502; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parish ([62.253.87.98]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001006164316.BDO16640.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@parish>; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:43:16 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish (8.11.0/8.11.0) id e96GhBK01328; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:43:11 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:43:10 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Nik Clayton Cc: Alfred Perlstein , "Robert A. Bruce" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001006174310.A252@parish> References: <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com> <20001005160428.S27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001006125808.A2330@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001006125808.A2330@canyon.nothing-going-on.org>; from nik@freebsd.org on Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 12:58:08PM +0100 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 12:58:08PM +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:04:28PM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > A core-team calendar would be an interesting novelty item. > > Excuse me, I have to go take a shower now. > That's the picture for July sorted out then ;) > N > -- > Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. > Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, > hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. > Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. > -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- 4.4 - The number of the Beastie ________________________________________________________________ 51.44°N FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org 2.057°W My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark mailto:marko@freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 6 11:11:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9662C37B502; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e96IBcU15066; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:11:38 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Nik Clayton Cc: "Robert A. Bruce" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001006111138.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com> <20001005160428.S27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001006125808.A2330@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20001006125808.A2330@canyon.nothing-going-on.org>; from nik@freebsd.org on Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 12:58:08PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Nik Clayton [001006 05:38] wrote: > On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:04:28PM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > A core-team calendar would be an interesting novelty item. > > Excuse me, I have to go take a shower now. IMO a geekish calendar with dates for things like USENIX and BSDcon and whatever else with a FreeBSD theme would probably be a hot item. That or one could hand them out at BSDcon for as an incentive for buying other BSD paraphenelia. (excuse the spelling, need coffee..) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 6 11:14:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 706) id 01CA437B502; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:14:41 -0700 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Nik Clayton , "Robert A. Bruce" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001006111441.D18697@hub.freebsd.org> References: <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com> <20001005160428.S27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001006125808.A2330@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> <20001006111138.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <20001006111138.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net>; from Alfred Perlstein on Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 11:11:38AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 11:11:38AM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Nik Clayton [001006 05:38] wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:04:28PM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > A core-team calendar would be an interesting novelty item. > > > > Excuse me, I have to go take a shower now. > > IMO a geekish calendar with dates for things like USENIX and BSDcon > and whatever else with a FreeBSD theme would probably be a hot item. > > That or one could hand them out at BSDcon for as an incentive for > buying other BSD paraphenelia. How? "Buy our coffee mugs or we _WILL_ give you a calendar!" ??? :-) :-) -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 6 11:16:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257A037B66C; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e96IGoI15363; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:16:50 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: Nik Clayton , "Robert A. Bruce" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Message-ID: <20001006111650.F27736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20001005170958.A80200@blackhelicopters.org> <200010052259.e95MxPi18991@pike.osd.bsdi.com> <20001005160428.S27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001006125808.A2330@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> <20001006111138.E27736@fw.wintelcom.net> <20001006111441.D18697@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20001006111441.D18697@hub.freebsd.org>; from jlemon@hub.freebsd.org on Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 11:14:41AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Jonathan Lemon [001006 11:14] wrote: > On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 11:11:38AM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > * Nik Clayton [001006 05:38] wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:04:28PM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > A core-team calendar would be an interesting novelty item. > > > > > > Excuse me, I have to go take a shower now. > > > > IMO a geekish calendar with dates for things like USENIX and BSDcon > > and whatever else with a FreeBSD theme would probably be a hot item. > > > > That or one could hand them out at BSDcon for as an incentive for > > buying other BSD paraphenelia. > > How? "Buy our coffee mugs or we _WILL_ give you a calendar!" ??? Bah, some of you just don't have the visions^H I do. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 6 13:52:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from milkyway.org (a98210.ntown.com [208.245.98.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CAA937B670; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rigel.milkyway.org (rigel.milkyway.org [205.241.194.19]) by milkyway.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA86240; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:03:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from toby@milkyway.org) Received: by rigel.milkyway.org with Microsoft Mail id <01C02FB5.A5ADF100@rigel.milkyway.org>; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:51:18 -0400 Message-ID: <01C02FB5.A5ADF100@rigel.milkyway.org> From: Toby Swanson To: "'Terry Lambert'" , "Robert A. Bruce" Cc: Michael Lucas , Rick Hamell , "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" , "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" , "rab@pike.osd.bsdi.com" Subject: RE: BSD Magazine (Advertiser Responses) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:51:16 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why not bundle a single CD and a coupon for a free or discounted copy of the latest version? Toby > If you are looking for a publisher, please let me know. BSDi publishes > The FreeBSD Handbook, and The Complete FreeBSD. We are looking for > new BSD books to publish. Some specific topics we are looking for > are corporate/enterprise, ISPs, embedded systems, and security, but we > are happy to consider anything BSD related. FWIW, the last time I was at Fry's, they had a 4.0 version of FreeBSD bundled with the book. Because I was using 4.1, and was willing to pay for the CD set for 4.1, and was willing to support the idea of the book, I would have bought the set, but the media was 4.0. I would have been willing to buy the book seperately. I would have been willing to buy the 4.1 CD set seperately. Bundled as they were, I couldn't really talk myself into buying the set. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Oct 6 21:31:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from citusc17.usc.edu (citusc17.usc.edu [128.125.38.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95C7F37B502; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kris@localhost) by citusc17.usc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01806; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:32:10 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Terry Lambert Cc: Steve Fagan , David Johnson , Joe.Warner@smed.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Magazine? Message-ID: <20001006213210.A1773@citusc17.usc.edu> References: <004501c02d44$31110940$1600010a@pmr.com> <200010032203.PAA27846@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200010032203.PAA27846@usr06.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 10:03:56PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 10:03:56PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > McAfee Antivirus already runs on FreeBSD; last I heard, it > was being updated. /usr/ports/security/vscan for the eval version.. Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message