From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 23 3:15:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88EA537B9A1; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 03:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by picalon.gun.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06478; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 12:15:17 +0200 (MET DST) >Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA86755; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 12:07:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 12:07:48 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: announce@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: need co-workers for apsfilter, site hosting CVS serivces is available Message-ID: <20000423103150.A82462@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Reply-To: chat@freebsd.org, andreas@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi ! I'm pleased to announce, that I got a machine for apsfilter developement. Bernd Walter from my ISP and the cosmo project http://www.cosmo-project.de/ made it available. I want to form an apsfilter developer team and would like to invite you to join the team. I want to make apsfilter the leading magic print filter around in internet ;-) Good goal eh ?! ;-) I think this step is a must now concerning other companies offering things like printtool with a nice TCL/TK GUI (RedHat). developement platform is a FreeBSD Alpha machine FreeBSD srv1.cosmo-project.de 4.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #0: Fri Mar 24 10:19:31 CET 2000 bernd@srv1.cosmo-project.de:/usr/src/sys/compile/SRV1 alpha hosting the following services: - CVS repository (organized like ours) - anon cvs server - accounts (via ssh) - mailing lists (one closed for developers) - cvs repository browser (cvsweb, zeller version) http://www.cosmo-project.de/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi?cvsroot=Apsfilter Areas that need more work: - security (i.e.: let lpd input filter run under user privileges) - further code cleanup - TCL/TK based SETUP with printcap management - documentation - system documentation (manpages) - web documentation (sgml, www, ps) - mailing list archive - writing shell/perl admin scripts, that add/delete/modify printer in printcap as tools that are later be needed for TCL/TK GUIs. Maybe these tools can migrate later into FreeBSD if there is interest (like pw(8)). - create a nice looking homepage (i'm really not an artist in that ;-) TODO list, see: http://www.cosmo-project.de/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/src/apsfilter/TODO?rev=1.13&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&cvsroot=Apsfilter -- Andreas Klemm http://people.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD New APSFILTER 533 and songs from our band - http://people.freebsd.org/~andreas To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 23 12:42:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14AF37BA0F; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 12:42:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keichii@bsdconspiracy.net) Received: from recursive ([208.190.180.177]) by mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0FTH002B9IQXNN@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net>; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 14:42:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 14:33:22 -0500 From: Michael Chin-Yuan Wu Subject: Darwin sources and Apple Public License Questions To: freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <003e01bfad5a$cd40c860$b1b4bed0@iteration.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have been looking at the Darwin sources in the anoncvs at publicsource.apple.com . I am wondering if someone could interpret the Apple Public Source License for me. http://publicsource.apple.com/apsl/ Here are my questions: 1. Can we port their code to FreeBSD without worries? 2. Would it contaminate the code like GPL? 3. Do we want to use the Darwin code/APSL stuff? 4. Is there anybody else looking at the Darwin code with greedy eyes like me? -- keichii@bsdconspiracy.net Wide Spread BSD Conspiracy to take over the world OS market -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 23 20: 5:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F2B137B9A9; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:05:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D99D71C4D; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 23:05:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 23:05:03 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: Matt Jacob Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/sysutils/nwclient Makefile ports/sysutils/nwclient/files md5 ports/sysutils/nwclient/pkg COMMENT DESCR MESSAGE PLIST Message-ID: <20000423230503.S397@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: <200004230628.XAA88759@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200004230628.XAA88759@freefall.freebsd.org>; from mjacob@FreeBSD.org on Sat, Apr 22, 2000 at 11:28:11PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Apr 22, 2000 at 11:28:11PM -0700, Matt Jacob wrote: > Added files: > sysutils/nwclient Makefile > sysutils/nwclient/files md5 > sysutils/nwclient/pkg COMMENT DESCR MESSAGE PLIST > Log: > Add files for binary port for Legato's NetWorker client for FreeBSD > (alpha && i386). Hell Yeah. -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect Computer Horizons Corp - CVM e-mail: billf@chc-chimes.com / billf@FreeBSD.org Office: 800-252-2421 x128 / Cell: 248-761-7272 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 24 17:41:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ren.sasknow.com (ren.sasknow.com [207.195.92.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFFDE37B749 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:41:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Received: from localhost (ryan@localhost) by ren.sasknow.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA36299; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:47:11 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:47:10 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Thompson To: Walter Brameld Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Read-write cdrom In-Reply-To: <00041805452601.02106@Bozo_3.BozoLand.domain> Message-ID: Organization: SaskNow Technologies [www.sasknow.com] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Walter Brameld wrote to freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG: > I am interested in getting an IDE read-write cdrom. Any one have a > suggestion on which brand to look for? > > Thanks. I'm a bit late... But it doesn't look like you've received any replies. Do you mean to say ``rewriteable'' CD-RW (i.e., random access reading and writing?) or do you just mean a run of the mill CD-R? -- Ryan Thompson Systems Administrator, Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 24 17:41:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ren.sasknow.com (ren.sasknow.com [207.195.92.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC75B37B7FF for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:41:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Received: from localhost (ryan@localhost) by ren.sasknow.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31946 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:35:47 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:35:47 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Thompson To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Max. T1 throughput? Message-ID: Organization: SaskNow Technologies [www.sasknow.com] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Posted to -chat as this really isn't FreeBSD related... I'm hoping a kindly knowledgeable ISP will snap this up :-) There seems to be some confusion around our region on what the maximum throughput of a T1 is. (Actually, we are on a 1.544Mbps leased SDSL line from a local ISP. The package was sold to us as a burstable T1). My preliminary tests seem to show a segregation between up and down... Each maxing out at about 96KB/sec when the other is practically idle. Not the near-198KB/sec that I think I should be getting. Is SDSL the key, here? Perhaps I took "Synchronous" in the wrong way. Does "Synchronous" imply UP = DOWN = 1.54Mbps / 2? Thanks, - Ryan -- Ryan Thompson Systems Administrator, Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 24 19:58:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DDBA37BD8F for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 19:58:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA28365 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:28:58 +0930 (CST) Received: from koala.aussie.net (domo@koala.aussie.net [203.56.129.2]) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA23738 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:20:26 +0930 (CST) Received: (from domo@localhost) by koala.aussie.net (8.9.3/8.9.3-ARK) id AAA83645 for aussie-isp-list; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:17:09 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: koala.aussie.net: domo set sender to majordomo-owner@koala.aussie.net using -f Received: from camelot.tdce.com.au (terry@camelot.tdce.com.au [203.18.0.3]) by koala.aussie.net (8.9.3/8.9.3-ARK) with ESMTP id AAA83641 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:17:06 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (terry@localhost) by camelot.tdce.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08133 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:11:11 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:11:11 +1000 (EST) From: Terence To: aussie-isp@aussie.net Subject: [Oz-ISP] QC: Time for a joke? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- The Sultan of Brunei was getting a bit cheesed off as he had 6 children, all girls, and therefore had no son and heir. Imagine his joy then,when one of his wives presented him with his only son and heir. Just before his son's sixth birthday, the Sultan took him to one side and said, "Son, I am very proud of you. Anything you want, I shall get for you." His son replied, "Daddy, I would like an aeroplane." Not wanting to do anything by halves, his father bought him British Airways. Just before his son's seventh birthday, the Sultan took him to one side. "Son, you are my pride and joy. Anything you want, I shall get for you." His son replied, "Daddy, I would like a boat." Not wanting to do anything by halves, his father bought him P&O Ferries. Just before his son's eighth birthday, the Sultan took him to one side. "Son, you bring so much happiness into my life. Anything you want, I shall get for you." His son replied, "Daddy, I would like something to watch films on." Not wanting to do anything by halves, his father bought him MGM Studios and their cinemas, where he watched all his favourite Western Movies. Just before his son's ninth birthday, the Sultan took him to one side. "Son, you are an inspiration to us all. Anything you want, I shall get for you." His son, who had caught the 'Western' movie bug, replied, "Daddy, I would like a cowboy outfit." Not wanting to do anything by halves, his father went and bought him Microsoft. ---- Email "unsubscribe aussie-isp" to majordomo@aussie.net to be removed. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 24 21: 3:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ren.sasknow.com (ren.sasknow.com [207.195.92.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5275037B7E2 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:03:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Received: from localhost (ryan@localhost) by ren.sasknow.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA48282 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:04:13 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:04:13 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Thompson To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: cvsup.ca.freebsd.org Message-ID: Organization: SaskNow Technologies [www.sasknow.com] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org cvsup.ca.freebsd.org seems to be down. Anyone know why? -- Ryan Thompson Systems Administrator, Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 24 22:51: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from makeworld.com (makeworld.com [208.192.111.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75A9D37BC31; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:51:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bitsurfer@makeworld.com) Received: from bugsbunny (207-229-142-156.d.enteract.com [207.229.142.156]) by makeworld.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA51991; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:50:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bitsurfer@makeworld.com) From: "Chris Silva" To: "Fawaz" Cc: "Mark Wakley" Subject: WARNING Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:51:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This guy (FYI) turns friends in... IE: He was the happy recipient of some MS manuals from a friend that was at MS and he ended up turning him in to MS... (alleged) I'll only give you this, OdinNT, #WindowsNT (anywhere) Do what you may... May God forgive you... You don't turn in friends, and you don't turn friends... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 9:39:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDEE837BD99 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:39:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03549; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:39:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAy7aq2g; Tue Apr 25 09:39:00 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA02166; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:38:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200004251638.JAA02166@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: M$ anti-trust case To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:38:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: adam@whizkidtech.net (G. Adam Stanislav), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000418072728.04695100@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at Apr 18, 2000 07:28:53 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >Wouldn't surprise me. Nevertheless, their "deep scan" is not as deep as > >Steve's. His deepest scan not only refreshes the data, it reformats the > >underlying hardware while doing it. > > He can only do this on MFM, RLL, and ESDI. He can't do it on SCSI or > IDE, because they don't allow him direct access to the hardware. FYI, you can directly access the hardware by obtaining a level 3 volume lock, then a level 1 volume lock, and then using a VXD to directly manipulate the raw driver interfaces. It's actually pretty trivial, even for Windows programming. C.v. "Partition Magic" for one example of a product that does this. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 12:34:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from relay02.chello.nl (relay02.chello.nl [212.83.68.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBDD237B5B2 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:34:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pe1rxq@amsat.org) Received: from amsat.org ([212.83.82.91]) by relay02.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 99c8f334c649856e3f2cdadc4054e412) with ESMTP id <20000425193437.IISV22628.relay02@amsat.org>; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:34:37 +0200 Message-ID: <38F22F9C.D95E36AA@amsat.org> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:46:36 +0200 From: Jeroen Vreeken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Subject: Anti-NDA petition Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I am currently working at Philips in Eindhoven, The Netherlands for my graduation. Here we make amongst other thing USB webcams. For these there is an excelent linux driver, but the author had to sign an NDA in order to get the specifications of the communication protocol. I have been trying to convince people here to drop at least part of the NDA so that an open source driver will be possible. So far the answer has been no. It turns out that open source osses are considerd to have to litle users to be a valid market. I was however promissed that if I could show that is was much bigger then they thought they would reconsider. I therefor urge everyone to write an email to my email address at philips: jeroen.vreeken@philips.com You do not have to buy a camera, just state that IF you were buying one you would buy one with opensource drivers available. Please write polite mails and mention 'open source' or your opensource os in the subject. I will need at least a few thousand emails. Jeroen Vreeken jeroen.vreeken@philips.com p.s. I am writing this from home so DO NOT answer to my private address, use jeroen.vreeken@philips.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 12:44:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from the-village.bc.nu (lightning.swansea.uk.linux.org [194.168.151.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E9D37B5B2 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:44:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from alan by the-village.bc.nu with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12kBEu-00083b-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:43:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition To: pe1rxq@amsat.org (Jeroen Vreeken) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:43:18 +0100 (BST) Cc: linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <38F22F9C.D95E36AA@amsat.org> from "Jeroen Vreeken" at Apr 10, 2000 09:46:36 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Alan Cox Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > It turns out that open source osses are considerd to have to litle users > to be a valid market. I was however promissed that if I could show that There are all these great Vision cameras available with good Linux support. So yes there is no demand for Philips cameras 8) > You do not have to buy a camera, just state that IF you were buying one > you would buy one with opensource drivers available. My USB camera recommendation isnt likely to change. The folks who helped us from the start without threat are the people whose product I will be recommending. Alan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 13:10:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D5537BD66 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:10:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28510; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:09:54 -0600 To: Alan Cox , pe1rxq@amsat.org (Jeroen Vreeken) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Cc: linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <38F22F9C.D95E36AA@amsat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alan: It is this sort of attitude, as well as the anti-business agenda embodied in the GPL, that alienate manufacturers from open source. And Philips is not a good company to alienate; they have a lot to offer. (I suspect that this specific problem is not endemic to the company but rather reflects the attitudes of the managers of one particular group within the company.) It is also fairly likely that they can be convinced that their protocols do not give the company a sufficient competitive edge to outweigh the advantages of going public with them. Militancy should be reserved for those who are actively trying to harm others. While I personally believe that the FSF falls into this category (because it is actively engaged in a battle to destroy worthy and creative people's livelihoods), Philips does not. --Brett Glass At 01:43 PM 4/25/2000, Alan Cox wrote: > > It turns out that open source osses are considerd to have to litle users > > to be a valid market. I was however promissed that if I could show that > >There are all these great Vision cameras available with good Linux support. >So yes there is no demand for Philips cameras 8) > > > You do not have to buy a camera, just state that IF you were buying one > > you would buy one with opensource drivers available. > >My USB camera recommendation isnt likely to change. The folks who helped >us from the start without threat are the people whose product I will be >recommending. > >Alan > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 13:14:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85D137BA0A for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:14:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28571; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000425141125.00beb5e0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:14:28 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: M$ anti-trust case Cc: adam@whizkidtech.net (G. Adam Stanislav), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200004251638.JAA02166@usr05.primenet.com> References: <4.2.2.20000418072728.04695100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry: Steve needs lower level access to the hardware than that. He needs to be able to inspect the surface literally at the bit level and do low-level reformatting. The hardware of modern IDE drives often does not allow this; you can't do a low-level format at all. Worse still, many drives insist upon hiding their caching so that you cannot be sure when a write is committed to the surface of the disc. Kirk complained about this last fall at FreeBSDCon, and he's right. --Brett At 10:38 AM 4/25/2000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >Wouldn't surprise me. Nevertheless, their "deep scan" is not as deep as > > >Steve's. His deepest scan not only refreshes the data, it reformats the > > >underlying hardware while doing it. > > > > He can only do this on MFM, RLL, and ESDI. He can't do it on SCSI or > > IDE, because they don't allow him direct access to the hardware. > >FYI, you can directly access the hardware by obtaining a level 3 >volume lock, then a level 1 volume lock, and then using a VXD to >directly manipulate the raw driver interfaces. > >It's actually pretty trivial, even for Windows programming. > >C.v. "Partition Magic" for one example of a product that does this. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 14:31:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from www.triple-it.nl (quake.multiweb.nl [195.114.255.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8A1737BBBD for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rgroesb@triple-it.nl) Received: from ieniminie (bikkel.triple-it.nl [212.58.160.141]) by www.triple-it.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25865; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:29:18 +0200 Message-ID: <001401bfaefd$4fc47fe0$3f1f6cc3@iconnect.nl> From: "Roderick Groesbeek" To: "Alan Cox" , "Jeroen Vreeken" , "Brett Glass" Cc: , , , References: <38F22F9C.D95E36AA@amsat.org> <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:29:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Brett Glass To: Alan Cox ; Jeroen Vreeken Cc: ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition > Alan: > > It is this sort of attitude, as well as the anti-business agenda embodied > in the GPL, that alienate manufacturers from open source. And Philips is not a > good company to alienate; they have a lot to offer. (I suspect that this Hey! And Philips is running Linux on a bunch of their systems too! And what about those rumours about the Trimedia processor (Philips) and Linux? > --Brett Glass > I'm completely objective... 1) I have a Philips USB camera 2) Philips company is originating from my country :-P Vriendelijke Groet, Roderick -- Pettemerstraat 12A T r I p l e 1823 CW Alkmaar T Tel. +31 (0)72-5129516 fax. +31 (0)72-5129520 Automatisering www.triple-it.nl "Laat uw Net Werken!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 14:40:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from the-village.bc.nu (lightning.swansea.uk.linux.org [194.168.151.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3289037BE84 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:40:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from alan by the-village.bc.nu with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12kD22-0008GM-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:38:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:38:07 +0100 (BST) Cc: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox), pe1rxq@amsat.org (Jeroen Vreeken), linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at Apr 25, 2000 02:09:54 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Alan Cox Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Militancy should be reserved for those who are actively trying to harm > others. While I personally believe that the FSF falls into this category > (because it is actively engaged in a battle to destroy worthy and creative > people's livelihoods), Philips does not. Militancy: no not militancy - Im supporting the vendors who currently support us. Thats good business. Why should I promise to buy Philips products if they will release source. I have a fine vision made camera with a stable driver from a vendor who has been helpful. Alan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 14:46:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scotch.merit.edu (scotch.merit.edu [198.108.60.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9BA37B56F for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:46:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrr@scotch.merit.edu) Received: (from mrr@localhost) by scotch.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06207; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:45:51 -0400 From: Mathew Richardson To: Alan Cox Cc: Brett Glass , Jeroen Vreeken , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Message-ID: <20000425174551.A6062@scotch.merit.edu> References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1us In-Reply-To: ; from alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk on Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 10:38:07PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Alan Cox [Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 10:38:07PM +0100]: >Militancy: no not militancy - Im supporting the vendors who currently support >us. Thats good business. Why should I promise to buy Philips products if they >will release source. I have a fine vision made camera with a stable driver >from a vendor who has been helpful. That wasn't the request (that you promise to buy Philips products if they will release source.) The request was that you make the claim that your decision to purchase would be influenced (presumably favorably) by whether or not an open-source driver was available. mrr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 14:49:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from the-village.bc.nu (lightning.swansea.uk.linux.org [194.168.151.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77DF237BF28 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:49:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) Received: from alan by the-village.bc.nu with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12kDBL-0008HM-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:47:47 +0100 Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition To: mrr@merit.edu (Mathew Richardson) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:47:45 +0100 (BST) Cc: alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox), brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass), pe1rxq@amsat.org (Jeroen Vreeken), linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <20000425174551.A6062@scotch.merit.edu> from "Mathew Richardson" at Apr 25, 2000 05:45:51 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Alan Cox Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > That wasn't the request (that you promise to buy Philips products if they > will release source.) The request was that you make the claim that your > decision to purchase would be influenced (presumably favorably) by whether > or not an open-source driver was available. Well that much is certainly true. In fact just documentation to allow an open source driver (although in this case it seems to allow both) Alan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 14:52:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cvs.openbsd.org (cvs.openbsd.org [199.185.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDEC737C077 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:52:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org) Received: from cvs.openbsd.org (IDENT:deraadt@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cvs.openbsd.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e3PLpuu05097; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200004252151.e3PLpuu05097@cvs.openbsd.org> To: Mathew Richardson Cc: Alan Cox , Brett Glass , Jeroen Vreeken , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:45:51 EDT." <20000425174551.A6062@scotch.merit.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:51:55 -0600 From: Theo de Raadt Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Alan Cox [Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 10:38:07PM +0100]: > >Militancy: no not militancy - Im supporting the vendors who currently support > >us. Thats good business. Why should I promise to buy Philips products if they > >will release source. I have a fine vision made camera with a stable driver > >from a vendor who has been helpful. > > That wasn't the request (that you promise to buy Philips products if they > will release source.) The request was that you make the claim that your > decision to purchase would be influenced (presumably favorably) by whether > or not an open-source driver was available. well that's pretty obvious. of course there are people who factor future operating system choices into their hardware purchases. and in our camp there are even people who buy hardware because it isn't supported yet, so that it can be supported. in our camp, lots of people avoid hardware because they know it will never run with free software. in the opposite camp, there must be a non-zero % of people who choose to buy hardware based on how many operating systems are supported. but i will admit that I avoid buying products from vendors who just recently "got it". sometimes they change their attitude with other products, for instance, intel. I think it is perfect to tell vendors that you recommend against using their products. By their actions, they are recommending against the use of our software... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 14:54: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from relay02.chello.nl (relay02.chello.nl [212.83.68.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 693FE37BEAD for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:53:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pe1rxq@amsat.org) Received: from amsat.org ([212.83.82.91]) by relay02.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 99c8f334c649856e3f2cdadc4054e412) with ESMTP id <20000425214421.JOCX22628.relay02@amsat.org>; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:44:21 +0200 Message-ID: <390611BA.3347E7A8@amsat.org> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:44:26 +0200 From: Jeroen Vreeken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan Cox Cc: Brett Glass , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oops, I hit the reply button not reply to all, Allan knows what I am talking about...... I never asked for any promisses, I only asked for a statement that IF you were going to buy a camera you would only consider open source friendly cameras. You don't even have to mention philips. Grtz, Jeroen Alan Cox wrote: > > Militancy should be reserved for those who are actively trying to harm > > others. While I personally believe that the FSF falls into this category > > (because it is actively engaged in a battle to destroy worthy and creative > > people's livelihoods), Philips does not. > > Militancy: no not militancy - Im supporting the vendors who currently support > us. Thats good business. Why should I promise to buy Philips products if they > will release source. I have a fine vision made camera with a stable driver > from a vendor who has been helpful. > > Alan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 21: 7: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3535A37B8C8 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:06:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (r25.bfm.org [216.127.220.121]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:07:44 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000425230216.008a2c50@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:02:16 -0500 To: Terry Lambert , brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: M$ anti-trust case Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200004251638.JAA02166@usr05.primenet.com> References: <4.2.2.20000418072728.04695100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 16:38 25-04-2000 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> He can only do this on MFM, RLL, and ESDI. He can't do it on SCSI or >> IDE, because they don't allow him direct access to the hardware. > >C.v. "Partition Magic" for one example of a product that does this. So does SpinRite. Brett was correct about older versions, but SpinRite 5 can do it all. Well worth the upgrade. BTW, is there a program like that for FreeBSD? SpinRite works great on maintaining my Windows partitions, but it cannot handle the FreeBSD sections of my hard drive. Or does FreeBSD fix disk problems automatically? Adam ----------------------------------------------------------- "I think, therefore I am." - Seventeenth Century Philosophy "I publish what I think, therefore I have." - Twenty-First Century Action Details at http://www.OnlinePublisher.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 21:59:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from spirit.jaded.net (liv3-3.hamilton.idirect.com [209.161.208.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F101D37BBCF; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:59:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@spirit.jaded.net) Received: (from dan@localhost) by spirit.jaded.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA01585; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:02:13 -0400 From: Dan Moschuk To: Ryan Thompson Cc: chat@freebsd.org, jmb@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvsup.ca.freebsd.org Message-ID: <20000426010213.B1315@spirit.jaded.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from ryan@sasknow.com on Mon, Apr 24, 2000 at 10:04:13PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org | cvsup.ca.freebsd.org seems to be down. Anyone know why? Doh! I changed its IP, without notifying jmb. :( jmb, can you please point cvsup.ca.freebsd.org to 216.94.132.37? In the meantime, I've aliased the old IP, she should work again. -- Dan Moschuk (TFreak!dan@freebsd.org) "Waste not fresh tears on old griefs." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 22: 5:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from spirit.jaded.net (liv3-3.hamilton.idirect.com [209.161.208.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55DE037B5AF; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:05:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@spirit.jaded.net) Received: (from dan@localhost) by spirit.jaded.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA01640; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:08:22 -0400 From: Dan Moschuk To: jdp@freebsd.org Cc: Ryan Thompson , chat@freebsd.org, jmb@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvsup.ca.freebsd.org Message-ID: <20000426010822.C1315@spirit.jaded.net> References: <20000426010213.B1315@spirit.jaded.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000426010213.B1315@spirit.jaded.net>; from dan@FreeBSD.ORG on Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 01:02:13AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org | | cvsup.ca.freebsd.org seems to be down. Anyone know why? | | Doh! | | I changed its IP, without notifying jmb. :( | | jmb, can you please point cvsup.ca.freebsd.org to 216.94.132.37? | | In the meantime, I've aliased the old IP, she should work again. | | -- | Dan Moschuk (TFreak!dan@freebsd.org) | "Waste not fresh tears on old griefs." I of course mean jdp. Hostmaster, cvsup guy, both John's... what's a guy to do. :) Sorry for the misfire. -- Dan Moschuk (TFreak!dan@freebsd.org) "Waste not fresh tears on old griefs." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 25 22:32:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from aurora.sol.net (aurora.sol.net [206.55.65.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C638737B7A8 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:32:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.9.2/8.9.2/SNNS-1.02) id EAA55001; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 04:20:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <200004300920.EAA55001@aurora.sol.net> Subject: Re: Max. T1 throughput? To: chat@freebsd.org, ryan@sasknow.com Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 04:20:30 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > There seems to be some confusion around our region on what the maximum > throughput of a T1 is. (Actually, we are on a 1.544Mbps leased SDSL line > from a local ISP. The package was sold to us as a burstable T1). > > My preliminary tests seem to show a segregation between up and > down... Each maxing out at about 96KB/sec when the other is practically > idle. Not the near-198KB/sec that I think I should be getting. > > Is SDSL the key, here? Perhaps I took "Synchronous" in the wrong > way. Does "Synchronous" imply UP = DOWN = 1.54Mbps / 2? A T1 is 1.544 megabits per second. Dividing by 8, you get 193 kilobytes per second, an often-quoted number as being T1 capacity. By the time you get through with all sorts of odd issues, though, I find that a T1's peak capacity is about 160K/s. SDSL may imply that you are being sold a technology whose peak capacity is the aforementioned T1 data speed. However, many DSL technologies adapt to line conditions and distance by providing less overall throughput. It is possible that your line is not capable of (much) more than you're getting. A T1 would be, however, since a T1 line is engineered with appropriate electronics (such as repeaters) to make the circuit work. A T1 cannot vary in speed, since it must be able to bear multiplexed phone circuits. It may experience errors, however. -- ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 1:50:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from PacHell.TelcoSucks.org (pachell.telcosucks.org [207.90.181.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D70437B8F9 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:50:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@PacHell.TelcoSucks.org) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by PacHell.TelcoSucks.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id BAA53824; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:48:54 -0700 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: Joe Greco Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, ryan@sasknow.com Subject: Re: Max. T1 throughput? Message-ID: <20000426014854.I39536@PacHell.TelcoSucks.org> Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net References: <200004300920.EAA55001@aurora.sol.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200004300920.EAA55001@aurora.sol.net>; from jgreco@ns.sol.net on Sun, Apr 30, 2000 at 04:20:30AM -0500 Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Apr 30, 2000 at 04:20:30AM -0500, Joe Greco wrote: > > There seems to be some confusion around our region on what the maximum > > throughput of a T1 is. (Actually, we are on a 1.544Mbps leased SDSL line > > from a local ISP. The package was sold to us as a burstable T1). > > > > My preliminary tests seem to show a segregation between up and > > down... Each maxing out at about 96KB/sec when the other is practically > > idle. Not the near-198KB/sec that I think I should be getting. > > > > Is SDSL the key, here? Perhaps I took "Synchronous" in the wrong > > way. Does "Synchronous" imply UP = DOWN = 1.54Mbps / 2? > > A T1 is 1.544 megabits per second. Dividing by 8, you get 193 kilobytes > per second, an often-quoted number as being T1 capacity. > > By the time you get through with all sorts of odd issues, though, I find > that a T1's peak capacity is about 160K/s. My experience is about 185KB/sec on a point to point T1, using ftp to transfer files. That means you have some overhead for IP, TCP and FTP protocol. > > SDSL may imply that you are being sold a technology whose peak capacity is > the aforementioned T1 data speed. However, many DSL technologies adapt to > line conditions and distance by providing less overall throughput. It is > possible that your line is not capable of (much) more than you're getting. > A T1 would be, however, since a T1 line is engineered with appropriate > electronics (such as repeaters) to make the circuit work. A T1 cannot > vary in speed, since it must be able to bear multiplexed phone circuits. > It may experience errors, however. > > -- > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 2:13:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.Surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539B737B806 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9D38E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.157.56.233]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06274; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:12:11 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DC55AC2C; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:17:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04666; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:13:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:13:13 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Alan Cox Cc: Brett Glass , Jeroen Vreeken , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Message-ID: <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk on Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 10:38:07PM +0100 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk): > will release source. I have a fine vision made camera with a stable driver > from a vendor who has been helpful. That's fine for you. You are ignoring thousands of other people who own cams of other vendors that might want to switch to an open-source OS. Your opinion clearly points out why MANY people keep Windows and not even consider switching. And this in a time where I here "Let Linux become ready for the Desktop" everytime and everywhere. That's amusing, Alex PS: It's not only amusing, it also shows why many companies stick to NT (or even commercial Unices), since they will never find such an attitude there. -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 2:52:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530BA37B806 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:52:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Marc.Espie@liafa.jussieu.fr) Received: from mail.liafa.jussieu.fr (liafa1.liafa.jussieu.fr [132.227.81.128]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.10.0/jtpda-5.3.3) with ESMTP id e3Q9lpU81497 ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:47:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from (espie@localhost) by mail.liafa.jussieu.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.2) id LAA26476 ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:47:51 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:47:51 +0200 From: Marc Espie To: Alexander Langer Cc: Alan Cox , Brett Glass , Jeroen Vreeken , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Message-ID: <20000426114751.A30666@liafa1.liafa.jussieu.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Alexander Langer , Alan Cox , Brett Glass , Jeroen Vreeken , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com>; from alex@big.endian.de on Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 11:13:13AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 11:13:13AM +0200, Alexander Langer wrote: > Thus spake Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk): > > will release source. I have a fine vision made camera with a stable driver > > from a vendor who has been helpful. > That's fine for you. You are ignoring thousands of other people who > own cams of other vendors that might want to switch to an open-source > OS. Yes, he is. SO WHAT ? This is Open Source software. People don't have to go out of their ways to help you. There is already enough to do with nice vendors. You want support for other vendors' stuff ? Then get your ass into high gear, and start lobbying for information *full* disclosure. > Your opinion clearly points out why MANY people keep Windows and not > even consider switching. > And this in a time where I here "Let Linux become ready for the > Desktop" everytime and everywhere. > That's amusing, > Alex > PS: It's not only amusing, it also shows why many companies stick to > NT (or even commercial Unices), since they will never find such an > attitude there. > -- > I need a new ~/.sig. Well, I believe you mostly need a huge reality check. Most companies don't really care about the attitude, they care about the money. And the size of the market... which is why a few companies have switched to giving Open Source support. I couldn't agree with Alan more. Especially since there is more to free OSes than just hyped Linux... *and* the community doesn't benefit from binary drivers under NDA, which is what the less enlighthned companies will tend to put out when they find out about the money they can get from the Linux market. Just say No to less enlightened companies with pointy haired bosses. -- Marc Espie |anime, sf, juggling, unicycle, acrobatics, comics... |AmigaOS, OpenBSD, C++, perl, Icon, PostScript... | `real programmers don't die, they just get out of beta' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 3: 4: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.Surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6190237B8C3 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:04:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9D38E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.157.56.233]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17324; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:02:53 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB281AC2C; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:07:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05578; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:03:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:03:50 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Message-ID: <20000426120350.A5459@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> <20000426114751.A30666@liafa1.liafa.jussieu.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000426114751.A30666@liafa1.liafa.jussieu.fr>; from Marc.Espie@liafa.jussieu.fr on Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 11:47:51AM +0200 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Marc Espie (Marc.Espie@liafa.jussieu.fr): > Most companies don't really care about the attitude, they care about the > money. And the size of the market... which is why a few companies have > switched to giving Open Source support. You mixed the points. Go reread my mail. Alex -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 3:26:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cable.cheqtel.com (cable.cheqtel.com [208.140.6.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7676D37B765 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:26:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rwalkup@cheqnet.net) Received: from cheqnet.net (cab-cas1-cs-75.win.bright.net [208.140.10.77]) by cable.cheqtel.com (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with ESMTP id FAA11630; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 05:26:02 -0500 Message-ID: <3906C4C4.22930895@cheqnet.net> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 05:28:21 -0500 From: Roger Walkup X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; OpenBSD 2.6 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander Langer Cc: Alan Cox , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alexander Langer wrote: > Thus spake Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk): > > > will release source. I have a fine vision made camera with a stable driver > > from a vendor who has been helpful. > > That's fine for you. You are ignoring thousands of other people who > own cams of other vendors that might want to switch to an open-source > OS. > > Your opinion clearly points out why MANY people keep Windows and not > even consider switching. > And this in a time where I here "Let Linux become ready for the > Desktop" everytime and everywhere. > > That's amusing, > > Alex > > PS: It's not only amusing, it also shows why many companies stick to > NT (or even commercial Unices), since they will never find such an > attitude there. > -- > I need a new ~/.sig. Hummmm . . . I think that the reason most people who use MS operating systems stick with them is not because this or that piece of hardware is "supported" (more on this in a bit), but because they can use the computer to do what they want to do in spite of crash problems. Well, what do they want to do? I work and go to school at a small (American)mid-west university and around 90% of computer usage by faculty/staff and students falls within email, web surfing, and word processing. It seems most people who really want to get into creative AV type stuff are still using Apples. Now, in terms of hardware support, it isn't MS that provides that, it's the hardware makers. MS dominates the marketplace to the extent that companies like Epson and Iomega write the drivers for their gear to work under MS. What a deal! Many companies don't want to go for linux or *BSD because of a basic misunderstanding of the level of support available for these OS's. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 3:40:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from viemta04.chello.at (viemta04.chello.at [195.34.133.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FD037BB44 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:40:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tm_wanka@earthling.net) Received: from default ([212.186.125.15]) by viemta04.chello.at (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license 1f48a2e5282ae02b3513b45a0a10fc26) with ESMTP id <20000426104044.LIW10248.viemta04@default>; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:40:44 +0200 From: "Thomas Michael Wanka" To: netbsd-users@netbsd.org, linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:42:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Reply-To: tm_wanka@earthling.net Message-ID: <3906E42D.30816.95B2588@localhost> In-reply-to: <20000426114751.A30666@liafa1.liafa.jussieu.fr> References: <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com>; from alex@big.endian.de on Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 11:13:13AM +0200 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gentlemen, there was a request for a little help, so either send a message or do not. I think that the freedom to choose from many different products will not be a disadvantage for the users of an OS and probably will help to give more people the opportunity to change their OS. In fact the preassure of lots of user requests is a good way to make hardwaremanufacturers provide information and possibly support. The only thing I was afraid of was that posibly this could have been a mail bombing attempt against philips. mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 3:50:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29A7237B90E for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:50:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 4893 invoked by uid 211); 26 Apr 2000 10:49:59 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:19:59 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Marc Espie Cc: Alexander Langer , Alan Cox , Brett Glass , Jeroen Vreeken , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Message-ID: <20000426161959.A4878@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> <20000426114751.A30666@liafa1.liafa.jussieu.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000426114751.A30666@liafa1.liafa.jussieu.fr>; from Marc.Espie@liafa.jussieu.fr on Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 11:47:51AM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 X-Question: Do you enjoy reading pointless headers? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Marc Espie said on Apr 26, 2000 at 11:47:51: > On Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 11:13:13AM +0200, Alexander Langer wrote: > > Thus spake Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk): > > > > will release source. I have a fine vision made camera with a stable driver > > > from a vendor who has been helpful. > > > That's fine for you. You are ignoring thousands of other people who > > own cams of other vendors that might want to switch to an open-source > > OS. > > Yes, he is. > > SO WHAT ? > > This is Open Source software. > > People don't have to go out of their ways to help you. There is already > enough to do with nice vendors. > > You want support for other vendors' stuff ? Then get your ass into high > gear, and start lobbying for information *full* disclosure. Quite right. And Alan has a right to his opinion, considering how much linux hardware support (among other things) he has directly contributed. Besides, Alan's mail was based on a mild misunderstanding. All that was asked was a statement that one would tend to choose hardware with open-source drivers: not a promise to Philips to buy their stuff, or a testimonial to them. I suppose even a statement like "I bought Vision's hardware rather than yours because they are helpful with their drivers and you aren't" will do? Personally I'm unwilling to send a mail that sounds like "if you opensource your drivers I'll consider buying your stuff", but I'm quite happy to send one saying "I prefer to buy hardware which has opensource drivers." Jeroen's second mail seems to make it clear that the second statement is sufficient. Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 4: 6: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.Surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D492D37B56A for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:05:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9D38E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.157.56.233]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30606; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:04:27 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C19AC2C; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:09:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06367; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:05:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:05:11 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Roger Walkup Cc: Alan Cox , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Message-ID: <20000426130511.A6113@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> <3906C4C4.22930895@cheqnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <3906C4C4.22930895@cheqnet.net>; from rwalkup@cheqnet.net on Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 05:28:21AM -0500 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Roger Walkup (rwalkup@cheqnet.net): > stick with them is not because this or that piece of hardware is "supported" > (more on this in a bit), but because they can use the computer to do what they > want to do in spite of crash problems. Well, what do they want to do? I work Depends. This is of course (probably the main-)reason, but ... > Many companies don't want to go for linux or *BSD because of a basic > misunderstanding of the level of support available for these OS's. ... this is the same thing. Ignoring chances to get specs of products is one chapter of failing support. This is were the opensource community has to work a lot. > Now, in terms of hardware support, it isn't MS that provides that, it's the > hardware makers. Yes, but this also is related to the above. The additude "I have my cam, why support other cams?" is just wrong. BTW: I'm also satisfied with binary-only drivers, but as read in this thread, some guys would not be satisfied with this, too, what I myself can't understand. Linux, FreeBSD and I believe the other BSDs, too, have invested much work in a reliable kernel-module framework, which is perfect for third-party drivers. But binary-only or open-source, the question was to convince Phillips (and other vendors), that the OS-community is big enough to invest in OS-OSs (hehe, OpenSource-Operating-Systems :-)), _how_ they do it is another question. Alex -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 4:25:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3E7DC37B90E for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:19:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@theory7.physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 4980 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 11:12:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory7.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.127) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 11:12:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 17421 invoked by uid 211); 26 Apr 2000 11:12:17 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:42:17 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Alexander Langer Cc: Roger Walkup , Alan Cox , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Message-ID: <20000426164215.A17370@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mail-Followup-To: Alexander Langer , Roger Walkup , Alan Cox , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> <3906C4C4.22930895@cheqnet.net> <20000426130511.A6113@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000426130511.A6113@cichlids.cichlids.com>; from alex@big.endian.de on Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 01:05:11PM +0200 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.14 alpha X-Question: Do you enjoy reading pointless headers? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > BTW: I'm also satisfied with binary-only drivers, but as read in this > thread, some guys would not be satisfied with this, too, what I myself > can't understand. > > Linux, FreeBSD and I believe the other BSDs, too, have invested much > work in a reliable kernel-module framework, which is perfect for > third-party drivers. > > But binary-only or open-source, the question was to convince Phillips > (and other vendors), that the OS-community is big enough to invest in > OS-OSs (hehe, OpenSource-Operating-Systems :-)), No, the question was to get an open-source driver. According to the original mail, a binary driver under NDA already exists. To quote: Here we make amongst other thing USB webcams. For these there is an excelent linux driver, but the author had to sign an NDA in order to get the specifications of the communication protocol. I have been trying to convince people here to drop at least part of the NDA so that an open source driver will be possible. So far the answer has been no. The concern for most of the posters was to encourage companies to release opensource drivers. Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 4:30:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from post.bgnett.no (post.bgnett.no [194.54.96.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBE1637B90E for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:30:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@datadok.no) Received: from delilah.datadok.no (gw.datadok.no [194.54.98.152]) by post.bgnett.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23218; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:29:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from peter@datadok.no) Received: from siemens02 (siemens02.datadok.no [194.54.103.75]) by delilah.datadok.no (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA30474; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:20:44 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000426123322.01420100@mail.datadok.no> X-Sender: peter@mail.datadok.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:33:22 +0100 To: Rahul Siddharthan From: "Peter N. M. Hansteen" Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Cc: Alexander Langer , Roger Walkup , Alan Cox , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org In-Reply-To: <20000426164215.A17370@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000426130511.A6113@cichlids.cichlids.com> <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> <3906C4C4.22930895@cheqnet.net> <20000426130511.A6113@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Here we make amongst other thing USB webcams. For these there is an > excelent linux driver, but the author had to sign an NDA in order to get > the specifications of the communication protocol. I have been trying to > convince people here to drop at least part of the NDA so that an open > source driver will be possible. So far the answer has been no. > >The concern for most of the posters was to encourage companies to release >opensource drivers. Exactly. I'm hoping followups more or less like these (which I mailed this morning to jeroen) will help advance the cause: -- [ snip ] -- To: jeroen.vreeken@philips.com From: "Peter N. M. Hansteen" Subject: cameras and drivers - No NDAs, please Dear Jeroen, I hope that the powers that be in your organization will come to realize that open source operating systems and their users certainly are valid markets (growing ones, too) *and* environments where the likelihood of useful user feedback is better than in your run of the mill consumer markets. The open source operating systems I use on a daily basis are linux and OpenBSD, and I would certainly welcome cameras and other imaging devices with open source support. Buying one or more video or stills cameras is a question which pops up here at datadok at intervals, and one of the reasons for postponing the purchase has invariably been the lack of useful info on drivers for other systems than the Microsoft offerings. Now if the manufacturers would only clue up to the fact that once a good, readable open source driver for your devices is out for one system, support in the other open source systems is mainly a matter of time (and perhaps giving/lending a device to a developer if you want to speed things up), a lot would be gained for the manufacturers who do. If for some odd political reason releasing the source of the current driver is not an option, a workable alternative could be to state publicly that the company would be willing to cooperate with outside developers, making all relevant programming information available. I know that asking for OpenBSD drivers from day one is a lot to ask, but a device with a functional, open source linux driver would certainly move quite a few notches up the list in my case. Now switching to marketspeak, making drivers available for "minority" operating systems is fairly powerful image-building as well -- it signals that you actually have a degree of sensitivity towards the needs of your (current and potential) users. Making programming information available to developers would help, too. - Peter -- [ unsnip ] -- -- Peter N. M. Hansteen peter@datadok.no http://www.datadok.no Datadokumentasjon A/S, Bredsgaarden 2, N-5003 Bergen, Norway Tel: +47 55 32 08 02 Fax: +47 55 32 14 95 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 4:38:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.Surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A6C37B8B2 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:38:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9D38E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.157.56.233]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05109; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:36:49 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D148AC2C; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:41:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06852; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:37:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:37:49 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Roger Walkup , Alan Cox , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Message-ID: <20000426133749.A6819@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> <3906C4C4.22930895@cheqnet.net> <20000426130511.A6113@cichlids.cichlids.com> <20000426164215.A17370@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000426164215.A17370@physics.iisc.ernet.in>; from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in on Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 04:42:17PM +0530 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Rahul Siddharthan (rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in): > No, the question was to get an open-source driver. According to the > original mail, a binary driver under NDA already exists. To quote: Oh. I thought the driver is open-source but the specs are under NDA. Alex -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 6:47:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (24.66.207.153.ab.wave.home.com [24.66.207.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC1D37B5C1 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:47:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neo@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01297; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:46:37 -0600 From: dreamwvr Reply-To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Organization: dreamwvr.com To: Alexander Langer , Alan Cox Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:39:35 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: Brett Glass , Jeroen Vreeken , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> In-Reply-To: <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00042607463707.00803@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, first as i have already mentioned IMHO extortive means are about as productive overall it sounds like as those that were used by m$ that caused the DOJ case. do you really think dragging co kicking and screaming is productive to open source. extortion only leads to resentment and count me out. co should choose what they release at their terms.. did anyone force anyone to release code GPL. i think not! bully tactics are used b.t.w. in the m$ camp as well but lets move above that huh? Best Regards, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com ps-if there is enough demand for a product and any co can see a business case they will release it. you need to communicate to them on that level not the level of a bully IMHO. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 10:29:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from relay02.chello.nl (relay02.chello.nl [212.83.68.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C37737BE34 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:29:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pe1rxq@amsat.org) Received: from amsat.org ([212.83.82.91]) by relay02.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 99c8f334c649856e3f2cdadc4054e412) with ESMTP id <20000426172942.PNZK22628.relay02@amsat.org>; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:29:42 +0200 Message-ID: <39072789.25F793B7@amsat.org> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:29:45 +0200 From: Jeroen Vreeken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Marc Espie , Alexander Langer , Alan Cox , Brett Glass , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> <20000426114751.A30666@liafa1.liafa.jussieu.fr> <20000426161959.A4878@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Personally I'm unwilling to send a mail that sounds like "if you > opensource your drivers I'll consider buying your stuff", but I'm > quite happy to send one saying "I prefer to buy hardware which has > opensource drivers." Jeroen's second mail seems to make it clear that > the second statement is sufficient. > > Rahul. You are correct, I do not ask for a commitmend, only a statement that open source is an issue for you when buying hardware from any vendor. Jeroen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 10:35:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from relay02.chello.nl (relay02.chello.nl [212.83.68.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4F4037BE93 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:35:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pe1rxq@amsat.org) Received: from amsat.org ([212.83.82.91]) by relay02.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 99c8f334c649856e3f2cdadc4054e412) with ESMTP id <20000426173508.PPAU22628.relay02@amsat.org>; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:35:08 +0200 Message-ID: <390728D0.C8FD89B1@amsat.org> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:35:12 +0200 From: Jeroen Vreeken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Cc: Alexander Langer , Alan Cox , Brett Glass , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> <00042607463707.00803@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org dreamwvr wrote: > > hi, > first as i have already mentioned IMHO extortive means are about as > productive overall it sounds like as those that were used by m$ that > caused the DOJ case. do you really think dragging co kicking and > screaming is productive to open source. extortion only leads to > resentment and count me out. co should choose what they release > at their terms.. did anyone force anyone to release code GPL. i think > not! bully tactics are used b.t.w. in the m$ camp as well but lets move > above that huh? > Best Regards, > dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > ps-if there is enough > demand for a product and > any co can see a > business case they will > release it. you need to > communicate to them on > that level not the level > of a bully IMHO. First of all: I am not extorsing anyone. The people making the decision here approved this action (although I do think they did not know it would get such a big respons). Secondly: The action is not to gpl (or any os license) the philips drivers, it would be nice but is not my intention. I am doing this to get the specs for communicating with the camera free. As for your ps, with this petition I try to prove that there is a business case, they just don't see it yet. You have to take in concideration that the whole open source concept is allien to them. I am just trying to get them on the right track, better late then never. Jeroen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 10:56:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (24.66.207.153.ab.wave.home.com [24.66.207.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB4A837BB5F for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:56:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neo@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01419; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:55:30 -0600 From: dreamwvr Reply-To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Organization: dreamwvr.com To: Jeroen Vreeken , dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:53:13 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: Alexander Langer , Alan Cox , Brett Glass , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <00042607463707.00803@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> <390728D0.C8FD89B1@amsat.org> In-Reply-To: <390728D0.C8FD89B1@amsat.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0004261155290G.00803@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, > First of all: I am not extorsing anyone. The people making the decision > here approved this action (although I do think they did not know it > would get such a big respons). good that would not be productive IMHO.. > Secondly: The action is not to gpl (or any os license) the philips > drivers, it would be nice but is not my intention. I am doing this to > get the specs for communicating with the camera free. -i see > As for your ps, with this petition I try to prove that there is a > business case, they just don't see it yet. You have to take in > concideration that the whole open source concept is allien to them. I am > just trying to get them on the right track, better late then never. agreed.. the more they here the more they think about it.. > Jeroen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 11:24:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51ADA37B62F for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:24:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01999; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:24:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAfOaqUd; Wed Apr 26 11:24:04 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA06534; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:24:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200004261824.LAA06534@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: M$ anti-trust case To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:24:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), adam@whizkidtech.net (G. Adam Stanislav), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000425141125.00beb5e0@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at Apr 25, 2000 02:14:28 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Steve needs lower level access to the hardware than that. He needs to > be able to inspect the surface literally at the bit level and do > low-level reformatting. The hardware of modern IDE drives often does > not allow this; you can't do a low-level format at all. Worse still, > many drives insist upon hiding their caching so that you cannot be > sure when a write is committed to the surface of the disc. Kirk > complained about this last fall at FreeBSDCon, and he's right. I complain about it all the time. You can turn this off on SCSI drives via mode page 2. Many IDE drives are SCSI drives with IDE interfaces; that is, the drive engine itself is the same as the SCSI engine, as far as registers, and it is a matter of whether there is IDE or SCSI ASICs on the board. I realize that many IDE drives may not be directly accessible in this way, but at this point you are complaining about hardware limits, not Microsoft. The point of the level 3 lock, level 1 lock, VXD approach is to disengage the Windows drivers from the drive, so that if you are a programmer capable of writing code for accessing the hardware directly, you can do so from within protected mode, and without interference from the OS. At that point, it does not matter which OS you use: in other words, the claim that there is a Microsoft monopoly at work in preventing Steve from writing his software is specious. I agree that Microsoft has wielded monopoly power, and has violated both Act 1 and Act 2 of Sherman, and is probably in technical violation of the RICO anti-racketerring statutes, for which the Justice Department has not seen fit to take them to task. HOWEVER -- your example is flawed, and people seeing it might not recognize it as a strawman, and therefore might tar other, more valid examples, with the same brush. The subject of this thread is the anti-trust case; please keep it on track, if you are going to continue it. Thanks, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 12:24:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ncsusraimgw0011.jnj.com (mail-gw1.jnj.com [208.153.7.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C340737BAEF for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:24:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from SWingate@NEUUS.JNJ.com) Received: from ncsusraws2.ncsus.jnj.com ([150.13.1.162]) by ncsusraimgw0011.jnj.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA02331 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: FROM ncsusraexims3.rar.ncsus.jnj.com BY ncsusraws2.ncsus.jnj.com ; Wed Apr 26 15:22:24 2000 -0400 Received: by NCSUSRAEXIMS3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:22:22 -0400 Message-ID: <4327A1883D21D311AC9400508B0A1B9E02368CF0@NTGUSLAEXS1> From: "Wingate, Steve [IBM NON J&J]" To: "'Alan Cox'" , pe1rxq@amsat.org Cc: linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Subject: RE: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:06:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What's the point of marketing something only to people who don't need to be convinced in the first place? Talk about preaching to the choir... > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Cox [SMTP:alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 12:43 PM > To: pe1rxq@amsat.org > Cc: linux-usb@suse.com; freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; misc@openbsd.org; > netbsd-users@netbsd.org > Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition > > > It turns out that open source osses are considerd to have to litle users > > to be a valid market. I was however promissed that if I could show that > > There are all these great Vision cameras available with good Linux > support. > So yes there is no demand for Philips cameras 8) > > > You do not have to buy a camera, just state that IF you were buying one > > you would buy one with opensource drivers available. > > My USB camera recommendation isnt likely to change. The folks who helped > us from the start without threat are the people whose product I will be > recommending. > > Alan > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 15: 4: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from prez.buf.servtech.com (prez.buf.servtech.com [204.181.2.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A263937B9CE for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:03:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mikeride@prez.org) Received: from [216.70.66.33] (ppp-284.tnt-1.roc.smartworld.net [216.70.66.33]) by prez.buf.servtech.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00839; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: mikeride@204.181.2.103 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000426130511.A6113@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000425140001.00bf1100@localhost> <20000426111313.D1245@cichlids.cichlids.com> <3906C4C4.22930895@cheqnet.net> <20000426130511.A6113@cichlids.cichlids.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:18:58 -0400 To: Alexander Langer , Roger Walkup From: "Michael G. Schabert" Subject: Re: [linux-usb] Anti-NDA petition Cc: Alan Cox , linux-usb@suse.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >BTW: I'm also satisfied with binary-only drivers, but as read in this >thread, some guys would not be satisfied with this, too, what I myself >can't understand. > >Linux, FreeBSD and I believe the other BSDs, too, have invested much >work in a reliable kernel-module framework, which is perfect for >third-party drivers. > >But binary-only or open-source, the question was to convince Phillips >(and other vendors), that the OS-community is big enough to invest in >OS-OSs (hehe, OpenSource-Operating-Systems :-)), _how_ they do it is >another question. I think that the gist of reasoning, however, is that most companies don't want to invest resources in making drivers for every OS out there, which is what would be necessary in order for them to distribute binary drivers. The ppl here don't care if the company provides anything at all, as long as they provided a way to create the drivers from within NetBSD. We want the manufacturer to provide specs and/or docs. That way, any OS or OS revision/flavor can make its own drivers at no expense to the company. This would open up the hardware to whole new uses that the manufacturer had never even dreamt of. The only reason not to would be to protect proprietary information. I hardly consider the method of transmitting video through USB to be top secret proprietary info. Just my thoughts, Mike Bikers don't *DO* taglines. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 15:49:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f71.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B4C4737B94E for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:49:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmd526@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 77600 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2000 22:49:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20000426224937.77598.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.220.228.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:49:37 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.220.228.2] From: "John Daniels" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd@netbsd.org Subject: Please support Java port to *BSD Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:49:37 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi: In November 1999 a request for enhancement (RFE) was opened at Sun's Java Developer's Connection titled: Port jdk 1.2.x to FreeBSD (bug id: 4288745). Members of the Java Developer's Connection help prioritize bug fixes and RFE's by voting for the one's that they believe are needed most. The FreeBSD port RFE currently is the #1 request by far with 2953 votes vs. 819 for the #2 request. Even with this wide lead, Sun has no obligation to make an official port of Java to FreeBSD or *BSD, or to be helpful to the *BSD efforts to port Java (see www.freebsd.org/java). The larger the number of votes for our RFE, however, the more difficult it is for Sun to ignore. And the more that we can widen the lead between our #1 RFE and #2, the more dramatic a statement we (collectively) make. An official Java JDK port to FreeBSD would likely mean that all BSD's would benefit either by being able to use the FreeBSD port or by being much closer to a port of their own. In fact, many who have voted for the RFE have left comments supporting a port to *BSD, not just FreeBSD. As you may know, Sun recently teamed with Inprise to create an official port of Java to Linux (building on the work of Blackdown). The *BSD's, with a large and loyal base of developers, also deserve an official native version of Java. Please support the Java on *BSD effort by voting for the RFE at: http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4288745.html If you are not already a member of Sun's Java Developers Connection, you will need to register before voting (membership is free). Your support is greatly appreciated. Thank you. John PS Please forward this message to any person, list, or organization that may want to support this effort. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 16:20:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0406337BC78 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:20:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14283; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000426171753.044954b0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:19:52 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: M$ anti-trust case Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), adam@whizkidtech.net (G. Adam Stanislav), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200004261824.LAA06534@usr09.primenet.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000425141125.00beb5e0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:24 PM 4/26/2000, Terry Lambert wrote: >I realize that many IDE drives may not be directly accessible >in this way, but at this point you are complaining about hardware >limits, not Microsoft. Actually, the original point I made was that Symantec wantonly copied Steve's surface analysis algorithms -- they literally took the assembly code verbatim! -- and then licensed the code to Microsoft. So, Steve's work is in a Microsoft product and he's gotten no payment for it. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 21:22:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pioneernet.net (pop3.islandtransit.org [208.240.196.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B95AE37BDD2 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:22:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chip@wiegand.org) Received: from chip.wiegand.org [208.194.173.26] by pioneernet.net (SMTPD32-6.00) id A1B99C54033E; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:27:37 -0700 From: chip To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: directory list command Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:19:13 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00042621243200.04311@chip.wiegand.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I was just poking around on the keyboard recently and came across the following command - ll that's two small 'L's. It returns the same result as ls -la I checked my two unix books and this command is not listed. Is it an undocumented command or just a fluke? And I had been have a problem with the backspace key just giving control characters instead of deleting the text it should be going over, and I found the command tset which is a toggle to turn on or off the backspace-delete function. What a differance that makes! Just some interesting observances from a relative newbie to fbsd. -- Chip www.wiegand.org ***** Visit my web site - Alternative Operating Systems - MS Windows isn't the only OS in town. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 21:27:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orion.ac.hmc.edu (Orion.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A492537B8B9 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:27:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@orion.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by orion.ac.hmc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10184; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:27:44 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: chip Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: directory list command Message-ID: <20000426212744.A9184@orion.ac.hmc.edu> References: <00042621243200.04311@chip.wiegand.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre4i In-Reply-To: <00042621243200.04311@chip.wiegand.org>; from chip@wiegand.org on Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 09:19:13PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 09:19:13PM -0700, chip wrote: > I was just poking around on the keyboard recently and came across the > following command - > ll > that's two small 'L's. It returns the same result as > ls -la > I checked my two unix books and this command is not listed. Is it an > undocumented command or just a fluke? It's a fairly common alias. I have it in my config on most machines. -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 26 23:30: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [209.249.56.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C86C37B6A1 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:29:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA49968 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:29:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:29:39 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Headcount for Berkeley BAFUG meeting on Thursday Message-ID: <20000426232939.B49908@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heads up! I need a head count of people who are planning on attending Thursdays meeting. This is so I'll have some idea how much pizza, soda, and coffee to get. If you could respond by Thursday 6pm it would be very helpful. See our web page ( http://www.bafug.org ) for more info. Our normally scheduled hacking will now continue. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.4 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 0:33:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (rh27.bfm.org [216.127.220.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACCA37B7BB for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:33:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id CAA00238 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:29:26 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:28:54 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Fourth degree Message-ID: <20000427022854.A222@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Castle: http://www.redprince.net/ X-Special-Effects: http://www.FilmSFX.com/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is an embarassing question to ask publicly, but I have no one to ask locally, especially not at 2:30 am: I know that functions involving second degree polynomials are called quadratic, those involving third degree are cubic... But what's the name of fourth degree polynomials? Adam P.S. While I'm asking... Is there some kind of general rule for this? So I don't have to ask the name of fifth, sixth, etc, degree polynomials next. -- Don't send me spam, I'm a vegetarian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 0:38:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFD5E37B766 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:38:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11221; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:08:12 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20000427022854.A222@whizkidtech.net> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:08:11 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: RE: Fourth degree Cc: chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27-Apr-00 G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > But what's the name of fourth degree polynomials? They are called quartics. > P.S. While I'm asking... Is there some kind of general rule for this? > So I don't have to ask the name of fifth, sixth, etc, degree polynomials > next. After four you usually say N order polynomial :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 0:51:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7816437BF55 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:51:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (rh10.bfm.org [216.127.220.203]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:52:26 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000427024710.008ba5e0@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:47:10 -0500 To: "Daniel O'Connor" From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: RE: Fourth degree Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <20000427022854.A222@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 17:08 27-04-2000 +0930, Daniel O'Connor wrote: >They are called quartics. Thanks! Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 3:15:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58DD037B51F for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 03:15:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA29651; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:15:22 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:15:22 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fourth degree In-Reply-To: <20000427022854.A222@whizkidtech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > This is an embarassing question to ask publicly, but I have no one > to ask locally, especially not at 2:30 am: > > I know that functions involving second degree polynomials are called > quadratic, those involving third degree are cubic... > > But what's the name of fourth degree polynomials? > quartics. > Adam > > P.S. While I'm asking... Is there some kind of general rule for this? > So I don't have to ask the name of fifth, sixth, etc, degree polynomials > next. general rule for them goes roughly like taking the appropriate latin numeral 8-) now, unless you really want to, just call then 6th, 7th, etc. order polynomial and skip the names. nobody cares all that much about pentic (sp?) polynomials. > -- > Don't send me spam, I'm a vegetarian > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 3:31: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820CB37B576 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 03:31:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA29865; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:30:50 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:30:50 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Paul.Newman@pgen.com Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fourth degree In-Reply-To: <802568CE.00389DAF.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 Paul.Newman@pgen.com wrote: > > > pentic? Shurely Quintic, no? > umm... yes. my bad. my non-knowledge of latin and habit to always refer to the degree by number rears it's ugly head 8-( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 7:43:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.runet.edu (peloton.runet.edu [137.45.96.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E0B37B9BF for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:43:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.runet.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.runet.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA48831; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:43:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.runet.edu) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:43:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Brett Taylor To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fourth degree In-Reply-To: <20000427022854.A222@whizkidtech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > I know that functions involving second degree polynomials are called > quadratic, those involving third degree are cubic... > > But what's the name of fourth degree polynomials? quartic > P.S. While I'm asking... Is there some kind of general rule for this? > So I don't have to ask the name of fifth, sixth, etc, degree > polynomials next. quintic, hextic(?), heptic, octic, etc That's as much of a rule as I'll guess. :-) Brett ***************************************************** Dr. Brett Taylor brett@peloton.runet.edu * Dept of Chem and Physics * Curie 39A (540) 831-6147 * Dept. of Mathematics and Statistics * Walker 234 (540) 831-5410 * ***************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 13: 8:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23A337B818 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:08:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA34614; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:08:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:08:36 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Brooks Davis Cc: chip , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: directory list command In-Reply-To: <20000426212744.A9184@orion.ac.hmc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Brooks Davis wrote: > On Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 09:19:13PM -0700, chip wrote: > > I was just poking around on the keyboard recently and came across the > > following command - > > ll > > that's two small 'L's. It returns the same result as > > ls -la > > I checked my two unix books and this command is not listed. Is it an > > undocumented command or just a fluke? > > It's a fairly common alias. I have it in my config on most machines. HP/UX ships with 6 links to ls: /usr/bin/ll /usr/bin/ls /usr/bin/l /usr/bin/lsf /usr/bin/lsr /usr/bin/lsx Thye do pretty much what you expect. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 14:27:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tougas.net (psd70.ab.ca [199.216.39.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8051A37B52F for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:27:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dtougas@tougas.net) Received: (from dtougas@localhost) by tougas.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00455 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:26:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dtougas) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:26:51 -0600 From: Damien Tougas To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Working in the United States Message-ID: <20000427152650.A384@tougas.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I am currently working in Canada, and have just come across a potential oppurtunity to work in the US, and now I have a whole bunch of questions. First of all, this company is asking me how much I would like to get paid. Perhaps someone could give some ideas as to what the average salary would be for a job encompassing the following type of work: - Internet server administration (FreeBSD) - Web/CGI/SQL development - FreeBSD server setup/admin for misc. networking purposes such as VPNs, firewalls, etc. This is my background: - University degree in Civil Engineering - 3 Years work experience in Civil Engineering - 2 Years full time experience in hardware/networking/administration with Windows NT and FreeBSD - Experience with developing in PHP, Perl, MySQL, and PostgreSQL So, knowing that, could anyone be able tell me what type of wage is reasonable? I have a fairly good idea what I would like if it were in Canada, but I have no idea what would be reasonable for the US. There are lots of things to think about such as the cost of living, medicare, housing prices, etc. I don't want to end up losing out in the end. The location of this new job would be in a smaller town in southern Washington state, so I don't think the prices will be too outragous. If there are any other Canadians out there who have done this, any advice you have to offer would be of great benefit. Thank you. -- Damien Tougas, P.Eng. Phone: (780)434-5889 Fax: (780)434-5889 E-mail: damien@tougas.net http://www.tougas.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 16: 0:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D05A37BE79 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:00:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27542; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:00:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000427165720.045ccbd0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:57:41 -0600 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fourth degree In-Reply-To: <20000427022854.A222@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:28 AM 4/27/2000, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: >This is an embarassing question to ask publicly, but I have no one >to ask locally, especially not at 2:30 am: > >I know that functions involving second degree polynomials are called >quadratic, those involving third degree are cubic... > >But what's the name of fourth degree polynomials? Quartic. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 16:10:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42CA037BB5A for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:10:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA42766; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:10:17 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:10:17 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Brett Glass Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fourth degree In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000427165720.045ccbd0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Q. what is the best list to post a question about math, computer architecture or the similar to? A. -chat. On sci.mat, nobody will notice it among all the Nathael the Great and other 0.9999... != 1 and similar threads, and on comp.arch they will think it is homework and post ony humourous prank answers that suggest you go to double-decker busses in your system but that you should beware of non-double-decker compatible bridges 8-) On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:28 AM 4/27/2000, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > > >This is an embarassing question to ask publicly, but I have no one > >to ask locally, especially not at 2:30 am: > > > >I know that functions involving second degree polynomials are called > >quadratic, those involving third degree are cubic... > > > >But what's the name of fourth degree polynomials? > > Quartic. > > --Brett Glass > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 16:12: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E70F937B95A for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:12:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from schatzig@worldnet.att.com) Received: from worldnet.att.com ([12.78.147.165]) by mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000427231204.GOZG6491.mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net@worldnet.att.com>; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:12:04 +0000 Message-ID: <3908C890.B7F666F1@worldnet.att.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:09:04 -0400 From: Schatzig X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fourth degree References: <20000427022854.A222@whizkidtech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "G. Adam Stanislav" wrote: ... > I know that functions involving second degree polynomials are called > quadratic, those involving third degree are cubic... > > But what's the name of fourth degree polynomials? quartic > Adam > > P.S. While I'm asking... Is there some kind of general rule for this? > So I don't have to ask the name of fifth, sixth, etc, degree polynomials I don't know about sixth and so on, but a polynomial to the fifth degree is quintic. ********************************************* *Kurt Groesser * *Web Page: http://home.att.net/~schatzig * *"God gave them the ability to reproduce... ************* * ... Science gave us the hope they won't." -KBK * ********************************************************* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 16:26: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B302037BB5A for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:26:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from schatzig@worldnet.att.com) Received: from worldnet.att.com ([12.78.146.48]) by mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000427232605.GTMW6491.mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net@worldnet.att.com>; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:26:05 +0000 Message-ID: <3908CBB8.46A04697@worldnet.att.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:22:32 -0400 From: Schatzig X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fourth degree References: <20000427022854.A222@whizkidtech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "G. Adam Stanislav" wrote: ... > I know that functions involving second degree polynomials are called > quadratic, those involving third degree are cubic... > > But what's the name of fourth degree polynomials? quartic > Adam > > P.S. While I'm asking... Is there some kind of general rule for this? > So I don't have to ask the name of fifth, sixth, etc, degree polynomials I don't know about sixth and so on, but a polynomial to the fifth degree is quintic. ********************************************* *Kurt Groesser * *Web Page: http://home.att.net/~schatzig * *"God gave them the ability to reproduce... ************* * ... Science gave us the hope they won't." -KBK * ********************************************************* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 17:10:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pioneernet.net (pop3.islandtransit.org [208.240.196.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC39C37BD5D for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:10:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chip@wiegand.org) Received: from chip.wiegand.org [208.194.173.26] by pioneernet.net (SMTPD32-6.00) id A83018AA0324; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:15:44 -0700 From: chip To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: general web usage statistics Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:08:24 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00042717122300.01429@chip.wiegand.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I once saw a stat that stated something like this- most internet users will only visit a web site up to 3 or 4 clicks deep, then they move on to another site Anyone know more about this or where I can get this stat for real? I need it to prove a point to the people in my company's headquarters in Norway that their website is too deep, and they need to use the site I am building instead. After all, mine is better than theirs. :-) Anyway, I've tried to search on web stats on the main search engines but always get results in the 60000 range and up. If someone can help me narrow it down a bit I would sure appreciate it. -- Chip www.wiegand.org ***** Visit my web site - Alternative Operating Systems - MS Windows isn't the only OS in town. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 18:50:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id 2846A37B89B; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:50:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: dan@freebsd.org Cc: ryan@sasknow.com, chat@freebsd.org, dg@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <20000426010213.B1315@spirit.jaded.net> (message from Dan Moschuk on Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:02:13 -0400) Subject: Re: cvsup.ca.freebsd.org Message-Id: <20000428015012.2846A37B89B@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org i'll send this on to David Greenman. David runs DNS for FreeBSD.org. jmb > Delivered-To: jmb@freebsd.org > Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:02:13 -0400 > From: Dan Moschuk > Cc: chat@freebsd.org, jmb@freebsd.org > References: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i > Sender: dan@spirit.jaded.net > > > | cvsup.ca.freebsd.org seems to be down. Anyone know why? > > Doh! > > I changed its IP, without notifying jmb. :( > > jmb, can you please point cvsup.ca.freebsd.org to 216.94.132.37? > > In the meantime, I've aliased the old IP, she should work again. > > -- > Dan Moschuk (TFreak!dan@freebsd.org) > "Waste not fresh tears on old griefs." > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 19:14:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from desh.cse.iitd.ernet.in (mailer.cse.iitd.ac.in [202.141.68.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE4537BE0B for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:14:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rakhesh_sasi@bigfoot.com) Received: from kafi.cse.iitd.ernet.in (csu96154@kafi.cse.iitd.ernet.in [10.20.11.14]) by desh.cse.iitd.ernet.in (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA28410 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 07:46:43 +0530 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 07:46:42 +0530 (IST) From: Rakhesh Sasidharan X-Sender: csu96154@kafi.cse.iitd.ernet.in To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe freebsd-chat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 20:16:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB1537B91D for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:16:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (r15.bfm.org [216.127.220.111]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:17:47 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000427221051.0088a640@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:10:51 -0500 To: chat@freebsd.org From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: Fourth degree In-Reply-To: <3908CBB8.46A04697@worldnet.att.com> References: <20000427022854.A222@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just wanted to thank everyone who answered my question(s). You've been most helpful. Cheers, Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 20:18: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95C1D37B8F0 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:17:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e3S3HuZ23781 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:17:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:17:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Price To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: anybody seen this? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In the May/June 2000 issue of Technology Review it reads and I quote: "Stallman is the founder of the GNU Project, the principal developer of the free software operating system GNU/Linux." *shrug* -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 20:43:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rock.ghis.net (rock.ghis.net [209.222.164.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B86E37B507 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:43:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@blackdawn.com) Received: from argon.blackdawn.com (04-128.dial.008.popsite.net [209.69.197.128]) by rock.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA69427; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by argon.blackdawn.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D820A18E6; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:42:45 -0400 From: Will Andrews To: Steve Price Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: anybody seen this? Message-ID: <20000427234245.A2098@argon.blackdawn.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from sprice@hiwaay.net on Thu, Apr 27, 2000 at 10:17:56PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Apr 27, 2000 at 10:17:56PM -0500, Steve Price wrote: > In the May/June 2000 issue of Technology Review it reads and > I quote: > > "Stallman is the founder of the GNU Project, the > principal developer of the free software operating > system GNU/Linux." > > *shrug* Linux FUD, as usual. ;-) -- Will Andrews GCS/E/S @d- s+:+>+:- a--->+++ C++ UB++++ P+ L- E--- W+++ !N !o ?K w--- ?O M+ V-- PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP+>+++ t++ 5 X++ R+ tv+ b++>++++ DI+++ D+ G++>+++ e->++++ h! r-->+++ y? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 27 21:52:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A3637B646; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:52:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19755; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200004280449.VAA19755@implode.root.com> To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: dan@FreeBSD.ORG, ryan@sasknow.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvsup.ca.freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:50:12 PDT." <20000428015012.2846A37B89B@hub.freebsd.org> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:49:30 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > i'll send this on to David Greenman. David runs DNS for >FreeBSD.org. I don't manage subdomains from freebsd.org. Those are handled by the regional subdomain admins. For ca.freebsd.org, that would be Lyndon Nerenberg . -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. >> Delivered-To: jmb@freebsd.org >> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:02:13 -0400 >> From: Dan Moschuk >> Cc: chat@freebsd.org, jmb@freebsd.org >> References: >> Mime-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i >> Sender: dan@spirit.jaded.net >> >> >> | cvsup.ca.freebsd.org seems to be down. Anyone know why? >> >> Doh! >> >> I changed its IP, without notifying jmb. :( >> >> jmb, can you please point cvsup.ca.freebsd.org to 216.94.132.37? >> >> In the meantime, I've aliased the old IP, she should work again. >> >> -- >> Dan Moschuk (TFreak!dan@freebsd.org) >> "Waste not fresh tears on old griefs." >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 1:52:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from apoq.skynet.be (apoq.skynet.be [195.238.2.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475C837B962 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:52:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from blk@skynet.be) Received: from [195.238.1.121] (brad.techos.skynet.be [195.238.1.121]) by apoq.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 987021F2FB; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:52:19 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000427152650.A384@tougas.net> References: <20000427152650.A384@tougas.net> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:03:04 +0200 To: Damien Tougas , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Working in the United States Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 3:26 PM -0600 2000/4/27, Damien Tougas wrote: > So, knowing that, could anyone be able tell me what type of wage is > reasonable? I have a fairly good idea what I would like if it were in > Canada, but I have no idea what would be reasonable for the US. There > are lots of things to think about such as the cost of living, > medicare, housing prices, etc. I don't want to end up losing out in > the end. In my experience, location of the job is a very strong influence on the amount of pay. If you would be working in a very expensive part of the US (such as Los Angeles, New York, or the D.C. area), then you could expect to get paid a lot more because your expenses (especially housing, transportation, parking, etc...) would be a lot higher. > The location of this new job would be in a smaller town in > southern Washington state, so I don't think the prices will be too > outragous. My suggestion is to start with the SAGE and SANS Annual Salary Survey data to see where you best fit across the whole industry, and then use the Pencom data to give you an idea what kind of adjustment to make for location (their salary numbers are off, but if you take the same mix of job skills and try them out in a variety of locations, you should be able to get an idea what kind of percentage modifications to make to the averages you get from SAGE and SANS). Searches on Google for this sort of stuff should point you in the right direction. -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 5: 4:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hydrant.intranova.net (msb-ts-slip04.UMDNJ.EDU [130.219.28.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 872CC37B6E2 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 05:04:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oogali@intranova.net) Received: (qmail 81444 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2000 12:04:38 -0000 Received: from localhost.abuselabs.com (HELO localhost) (missnglnk@127.0.0.1) by localhost.abuselabs.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2000 12:04:38 -0000 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:04:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Omachonu Ogali To: Daniel O'Connor Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Fourth degree In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 27-Apr-00 G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > > But what's the name of fourth degree polynomials? > > They are called quartics. Quartics or Quadratics? I can't remember which... > > P.S. While I'm asking... Is there some kind of general rule for this? > > So I don't have to ask the name of fifth, sixth, etc, degree polynomials > > next. > > After four you usually say N order polynomial :) > > --- > Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer > for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au > "The nice thing about standards is that there > are so many of them to choose from." > -- Andrew Tanenbaum > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Omachonu Ogali oogali@intranova.net | | Intranova Networking Group http://tribune.intranova.net | | PGP Key ID: 0xBFE60839 | | PGP Fingerprint: C8 51 14 FD 2A 87 53 D1 E3 AA 12 12 01 93 BD 34 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 6:21:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bigphred.greycat.com (bigphred.greycat.com [207.173.133.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D90AD37B6FD for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 06:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dann@bigphred.greycat.com) Received: (from dann@localhost) by bigphred.greycat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05237; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 06:21:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dann) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 06:21:50 -0700 From: Dann Lunsford To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fourth degree Message-ID: <20000428062149.A5196@greycat.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from oogali@intranova.net on Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 08:04:38AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 08:04:38AM -0400, Omachonu Ogali wrote: > > On 27-Apr-00 G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > > > But what's the name of fourth degree polynomials? > > > > They are called quartics. > > Quartics or Quadratics? > I can't remember which... Definitely quartics. Quadratics are of degree 2. Gee, this thread is making me nostalgic; think I'll dig out my Master's thesis and see if I still understand it :-). Mmmmmm... Galois fields... tasty stuff... -- Dann Lunsford The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil dann@greycat.com is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 6:59: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A6D37B815 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 06:58:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03448; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 07:58:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000428075757.00af0e60@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 07:58:40 -0600 To: Dann Lunsford , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fourth degree Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20000428062149.A5196@greycat.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:21 AM 4/28/2000, Dann Lunsford wrote: >Gee, this thread is making me nostalgic; think I'll dig out my Master's >thesis and see if I still understand it :-). Mmmmmm... Galois fields... >tasty stuff... Ah, yes, Galois fields. Those were the fields that Asterix and Obelix fought on, right? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 14:21:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0BD37B517; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA82651; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:21:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Brett Glass Cc: Terry Lambert , "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: M$ anti-trust case In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000426171753.044954b0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Brett Glass wrote: > Actually, the original point I made was that Symantec wantonly > copied Steve's surface analysis algorithms -- they literally > took the assembly code verbatim! -- and then licensed the > code to Microsoft. So, Steve's work is in a Microsoft product > and he's gotten no payment for it. So he should have GPLed the code so it couldn't be ripped off by those corporate fascists? :-) Kris ---- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 14:48: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B417E37BA2F for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:47:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09893; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:47:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAfya4lt; Fri Apr 28 14:47:27 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA02570; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:47:36 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200004282147.OAA02570@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: FreeBSD salary formula and a low key sales pitch... To: damien@tougas.net (Damien Tougas) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:47:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20000427152650.A384@tougas.net> from "Damien Tougas" at Apr 27, 2000 03:26:51 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hello, > > I am currently working in Canada, and have just come across a > potential oppurtunity to work in the US, and now I have a whole bunch > of questions. > > First of all, this company is asking me how much I would like to get > paid. Perhaps someone could give some ideas as to what the average salary > would be for a job encompassing the following type of work: > > - Internet server administration (FreeBSD) > - Web/CGI/SQL development > - FreeBSD server setup/admin for misc. networking purposes such as > VPNs, firewalls, etc. > > This is my background: > > - University degree in Civil Engineering > - 3 Years work experience in Civil Engineering > - 2 Years full time experience in hardware/networking/administration > with Windows NT and FreeBSD > - Experience with developing in PHP, Perl, MySQL, and PostgreSQL > > So, knowing that, could anyone be able tell me what type of wage is > reasonable? The median cost of a two bedroom apartment in this area is US$1600. Take whatever the median cost of a two bedrommom apartment is in your area, and use that value to do the math. This will get you the equivalent in "Northern Silicon Valley US$". Do the experiment based on where you intend to move, and what salary, after taxes, you would expect in your area (again, in US$), given your experience. Since you are Canadian, subtract whatever would be your health care contribution at the place you are going. This is the base after-tax salary you are looking for. After that, things get complicated, based on where you expect to have to pay taxes. You need to calculate backwards from the tax rate in order to get your expected pre-tax salary. If you are good at doing UI stuff in PHP, or any other template based HTML UI scripting language, we'll hire you. 8-). Sales pitch: If you have been thinking about moving to the bay area... IBM has excellent benefits, educational reimbursement for post graduate level study, sabbaticals, 401K matching, and a sick leave policy that would permit a person with a doctors note to miss up to 12 months in any 24 month period, if necessary. We (Whistle Communications, Inc.) are a predominantly FreeBSD shop within IBM. We not only need good people and are willing to pay for them (stock options are a 1:20 lottery, whereas a higher base salary can be invested however you like, at whatever level of risk you like, instead of betting the farm that your startup will IPO before it burns all its cash), we also need people to help spread the BSD gospel to the rest of IBM. 8-). Our site hosts the non-Berkeley BAFUG meetings, and we are active advocates. Nothing says "FreeBSD is legitimate business" than a bunch of people showing up in FreeBSD T-shirts wearing IBM badges. 8-). You get the best of both worlds: big company benefits in a small company atmosphere (for the purposes of beer on pizza day and at company functions, for example, IBM has declared Whistle an "event", so we still have the champagne at product release time, etc.). We also have the standard Silicon Valley "free beverages" thing going on (canned Coke, Sprite, Pepsi, Juices, Snapple, etc.), so it's not like we are counting foam cups, like some companies do... We also have various lunch crowds, a small daily "walk near the bay" group, depending on your tastes, so there's plenty of opportunity to hang out with smart, like-minded people. There's enough places close by that you can walk to lunch (if you go to the Indian/Mexican Deli, you could hit on some of the Microsoft marketing people, if you wanted... the office where we marched for "Windows Refund Day" is upstairs from it). Oh yeah, plus there's the keys to the IBM technology candy store, to use in the products you work on -- though we personally try to steer towards open source equivalents, given a choice, so that we can give back to the community (for example, we have some pretty damn good sendmail patches that we've made available, and we are about set to release the first public ODMR reference implementation). If you apply, please reference "SN: 5A0378" in the application as the referral (probably under "other"). If you promise you know what you are doing when it comes to code, then you can send your resume to me directly at Whistle, so you don't have to wait for the "HR filter" that all companies have. It's the same as the email address in my signature, only "whistle.com" (we even got to keep our own email) instead of "lambert.org". In all honesty, if you have FreeBSD experience, and you are in the Bay area, you have at least 5 jobs waiting for you. FreeBSD is _that_ hot right now. Hopefully, you'll give Whistle a crack at you before looking elsewhere... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 15:11:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from super-g.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F74A37BA37 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:11:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: by super-g.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 28896BC5A; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 10D6BBC59; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:11:45 -0400 (EDT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Ryan Thompson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Max. T1 throughput? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You may also wish to test to an ftp/http server that is located at your ISP's POP, just to see if the bottleneck is your connection or their connection out to the 'net. In all fairness, there are a number of locations that I cannot get more than 90KB/s out of no matter whose backbone I'm sitting on. Oddly enough, I remember in the 'early days' of the internet it was much faster... :) Charles --- Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com --- On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Ryan Thompson wrote: > > Posted to -chat as this really isn't FreeBSD related... I'm hoping a > kindly knowledgeable ISP will snap this up :-) > > There seems to be some confusion around our region on what the maximum > throughput of a T1 is. (Actually, we are on a 1.544Mbps leased SDSL line > from a local ISP. The package was sold to us as a burstable T1). > > My preliminary tests seem to show a segregation between up and > down... Each maxing out at about 96KB/sec when the other is practically > idle. Not the near-198KB/sec that I think I should be getting. > > Is SDSL the key, here? Perhaps I took "Synchronous" in the wrong > way. Does "Synchronous" imply UP = DOWN = 1.54Mbps / 2? > > Thanks, > - Ryan > > -- > Ryan Thompson > Systems Administrator, Accounts > Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 > > SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com > #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 17:46: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ren.sasknow.com (ren.sasknow.com [207.195.92.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2602437BA24 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:46:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Received: from localhost (ryan@localhost) by ren.sasknow.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA69915; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:46:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:46:53 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Thompson To: spork Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Max. T1 throughput? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: SaskNow Technologies [www.sasknow.com] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org spork wrote to Ryan Thompson: > You may also wish to test to an ftp/http server that is located at your > ISP's POP, just to see if the bottleneck is your connection or their > connection out to the 'net. That's one of the first things I tried. Though latency was a bit lower (not much, mind you), throughput was about the same... Which led me to believe the bottleneck was indeed between my router and theirs. We are located 1,000 or maybe 2,000 meters from our ISP, so we are well within the range for fast SDSL. > In all fairness, there are a number of locations that I cannot get > more than 90KB/s out of no matter whose backbone I'm sitting on. Yup.. That's to be assumed. Host-to-host transfers are never a reliable indicator of available throughput, which is why I connected to about a dozen hosts on half a dozen networks (near and far) and tried about three dozen large (10MB+) transfers in parallel... I run MRTG, but don't always trust it for accurate measure... So I just sent all the downloads to a directory and, once the transfers started, did: # du -s && sleep 60 && du -s .. Then take the difference in K and divide by 60 to get K per second download. Done at times of low network and system load, I've found tests like this to provide a good indication of total saturated *protocol level* throughput. It is assumed that the actual line throughput is some small amount higher, due to the protocol overhead involved. Most people are ultimately interested in "how fast I can FTP files" anyway, so relatively qualitative tests like the one I've described are useful. > Oddly enough, I remember in the 'early days' of the internet it was much > faster... :) Sure, sure... I think somebody is getting nostalgic :-) > > Charles > > --- > Charles Sprickman > spork@super-g.com > --- -- Ryan Thompson Systems Administrator, Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 18: 8:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9318F37B723 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10989; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:07:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000428190631.04531a10@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:07:44 -0600 To: Chris Dillon , "Dale E. Chulhan" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Best NIC / Best CDR-CDRW Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <38FCAC4B.1B007400@uwi.tt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:37 PM 4/18/2000, Chris Dillon wrote: >The Intel EtherExpress PRO 10/100 family (anything based on the 82558B >or 82559) is probably the best 10/100 NIC you can find for FreeBSD. >I'm also using this card family with several hundred Windows systems >here, and have had zero trouble. While going through a local company's junkbox, I came upon a NIC which has an Intel *82557* chip. How does this compare to the later ones? Will it work with FreeBSD's fxp driver? Will it do 100BaseTX full duplex? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 18:10: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E5B37BA24; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:09:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11007; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:09:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000428190858.00b6b500@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:09:39 -0600 To: Kris Kennaway From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: M$ anti-trust case Cc: Terry Lambert , "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20000426171753.044954b0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:21 PM 4/28/2000, Kris Kennaway wrote: >On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Brett Glass wrote: > > > Actually, the original point I made was that Symantec wantonly > > copied Steve's surface analysis algorithms -- they literally > > took the assembly code verbatim! -- and then licensed the > > code to Microsoft. So, Steve's work is in a Microsoft product > > and he's gotten no payment for it. > >So he should have GPLed the code so it couldn't be ripped off by those >corporate fascists? :-) Yeah, right. Actually, if he'd GPLed it he would first have had to prove that the GPL was valid and enforceable. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 18:11:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 038F437B99A for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11025; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000428191022.04523360@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:11:11 -0600 To: Terry Lambert , damien@tougas.net (Damien Tougas) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD salary formula and a low key sales pitch... Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200004282147.OAA02570@usr08.primenet.com> References: <20000427152650.A384@tougas.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:47 PM 4/28/2000, Terry Lambert wrote: >Sales pitch: > >If you have been thinking about moving to the bay area... > >IBM has excellent benefits, educational reimbursement for post >graduate level study, sabbaticals, 401K matching, and a sick >leave policy that would permit a person with a doctors note to >miss up to 12 months in any 24 month period, if necessary. > >We (Whistle Communications, Inc.) are a predominantly FreeBSD >shop within IBM. We not only need good people and are willing >to pay for them (stock options are a 1:20 lottery, whereas a >higher base salary can be invested however you like, at whatever >level of risk you like, instead of betting the farm that your >startup will IPO before it burns all its cash), we also need >people to help spread the BSD gospel to the rest of IBM. 8-). All sounds good.... But what if folks want to live someplace really NICE, like Laramie? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 18:35:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B1237BFE5 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:35:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17157; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA5Pa4CH; Fri Apr 28 18:34:56 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA12067; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:35:04 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200004290135.SAA12067@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD salary formula and a low key sales pitch... To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 01:35:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), damien@tougas.net (Damien Tougas), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000428191022.04523360@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at Apr 28, 2000 07:11:11 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >Sales pitch: > > > >If you have been thinking about moving to the bay area... > > > >IBM has excellent benefits, educational reimbursement for post > >graduate level study, sabbaticals, 401K matching, and a sick > >leave policy that would permit a person with a doctors note to > >miss up to 12 months in any 24 month period, if necessary. > > > >We (Whistle Communications, Inc.) are a predominantly FreeBSD > >shop within IBM. We not only need good people and are willing > >to pay for them (stock options are a 1:20 lottery, whereas a > >higher base salary can be invested however you like, at whatever > >level of risk you like, instead of betting the farm that your > >startup will IPO before it burns all its cash), we also need > >people to help spread the BSD gospel to the rest of IBM. 8-). > > All sounds good.... But what if folks want to live someplace > really NICE, like Laramie? I believe we are open to telecommuting, for reasonable definitions of that. You'd probably have to fly in for two (or three) weeks to start, and then be willing to do some phone/video conference time, telephone calls with team meetings and your manager, and occasional fly ins (at least once a month, perhaps more frequently, if there were a lot of meetings because a project was kicking off or nearing release). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 28 19:18:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CDC937B8A7 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:18:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keichii@peorth.iteration.net) Received: from localhost (keichii@localhost) by peorth.iteration.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31003 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:18:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from keichii@peorth.iteration.net) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:18:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Chin-Yuan Wu To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Procmail Filter for FreeBSD Mailing Lists and such Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-408502612-956974720=:30997" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-408502612-956974720=:30997 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think this is about as tight a filter as I can get it to be. This filter delivers the lists to your designated Mail dir and into different mailboxes for each list. I did not make it a complete filter for freebsd-*, but you should be able to modify it to your taste. :) The filter is based on Jason E.'s filter and a post to the mailing lists about nine months ago. 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2:58:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.Surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA1637B741 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 02:58:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9D38C8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.157.56.200]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27823; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:57:41 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B6F4AC2D; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:02:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03099; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:58:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:58:41 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Michael Chin-Yuan Wu Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Procmail Filter for FreeBSD Mailing Lists and such Message-ID: <20000429115841.A2965@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from keichii@peorth.iteration.net on Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 09:18:40PM -0500 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! Quite long filter, in my eyes a little bit too long. Also, it seems that you're using TO_, which filter's also CC'ed mails. So, if you get two copies, one private (because you're To:'ed), and one for the list, both go into the folder, which - in my eyes - is wrong. You need one copy in the folder and one in your inbox. This filter works for me: :0: * ^Delivered-To: freebsd-\/(i18n|scsi|qa|new-bus|arch|multimedia|ipfw|newbies|bugs|emulation|advocacy|hardware|chat|net|fs|doc|security|isdn|ports|questions|current|announce|stable|hackers)@freebsd.org * MATCH ?? ^^\/[^@]+ $MATCH You could also do something like FreeBSD/$MATCH or similar, if you don't want the folders to be named "current" or "chat" as for me. Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 4:11:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98DC37B621 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 04:11:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from asme.org ([216.252.137.98]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA5847 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:10:00 -0400 Message-ID: <390A6DE7.25115F6C@asme.org> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:06:47 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: anybody seen this? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Steve Price wrote: > > In the May/June 2000 issue of Technology Review it reads and > I quote: > > "Stallman is the founder of the GNU Project, the > principal developer of the free software operating > system GNU/Linux." > > *shrug* > FUD, Everyone knows Linux was created by RH Labs to provide an Opensource competitor against Bill Gates (the inventor of the Web). Of course, Al Gore invented the Internet first. sorry, I keep hearing it all the time so it must be true ;-). Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 5:17:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 464C137B6CD for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 05:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA73435; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:16:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) To: Alexander Langer Cc: Michael Chin-Yuan Wu , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Procmail Filter for FreeBSD Mailing Lists and such References: <20000429115841.A2965@cichlids.cichlids.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 29 Apr 2000 14:16:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: Alexander Langer's message of "Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:58:41 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alexander Langer writes: > This filter works for me: > > :0: > * ^Delivered-To: freebsd-\/(i18n|scsi|qa|new-bus|arch|multimedia|ipfw|newbies|bugs|emulation|advocacy|hardware|chat|net|fs|doc|security|isdn|ports|questions|current|announce|stable|hackers)@freebsd.org > * MATCH ?? ^^\/[^@]+ > $MATCH It won't work for people who use QMail or Postfix, because they set the Delivered-To: header to the final recipient (mail from the lists contains a Delivered-To: header because hub runs Postfix and Majordomo doesn't strip the header before forwarding the mail). Use Sender: instead. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 5:59:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.25.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE8337B769 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 05:59:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ohoyer@fbwi.fh-wilhelmshaven.de) Received: from fettesau.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (stuwopc5.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.209.5]) by mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11870; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:59:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <4.1.20000429145039.00a19a30@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> X-Sender: ohoyer@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:57:26 +0200 To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" From: Olaf Hoyer Subject: Re: anybody seen this? Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <390A6DE7.25115F6C@asme.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 00:06 29.04.00 -0500, you wrote: >Steve Price wrote: >> >> In the May/June 2000 issue of Technology Review it reads and >> I quote: >> >> "Stallman is the founder of the GNU Project, the >> principal developer of the free software operating >> system GNU/Linux." >> >> *shrug* >> > >FUD, Everyone knows Linux was created by RH Labs to provide an >Opensource competitor against Bill Gates (the inventor of the Web). Of >course, Al Gore invented the Internet first. Hi! Well, have a look at: http://www.gnu.org There it reads that Stallman decided to dedicate his life to free software, and begun programming some new OS, beginning with a compiler. But he ran into several difficulties with the kernel, and finally, as he had some part of the userland ready, linux was "invented", and so he took the kernel from linux, thus making it the GNU operating system with the linux kernel, referred to as GNU/Linux. Well, ok- Linux really is the kernel, and depending on the userland that the vendors configure, it may be a GNU userland under the GPL, or it may be some commercial environment, maybe one designed to run the new business apps on the AS/400. In that case the OS (at least the most important part of it) is Linux, but with a whole different userland implementation. Its like comparing a Volkswagen with a Volvo. They use the same engines (at least the Diesel ones), but we all know what those brands stand for. Regards Olaf Hoyer -------- Olaf Hoyer www.nightfire.de mailto:Olaf.Hoyer@nightfire.de FreeBSD- Turning PC's into workstations ICQ:22838075 Liebe und Hass sind nicht blind, aber geblendet vom Feuer, dass sie selber mit sich tragen. (Nietzsche) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 7:21:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pioneernet.net (pop3.islandtransit.org [208.240.196.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4042C37B647 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 07:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chip@wiegand.org) Received: from chip.wiegand.org [208.194.173.26] by pioneernet.net (SMTPD32-6.00) id A105E63400AA; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 07:26:13 -0700 From: chip To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Internet Usage Statistics Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 07:19:20 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00042907225200.05851@chip.wiegand.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I need to gather some statistics regarding internet usage by the average web surfer. I have tried the various search engines and find digging through 60000 hits a bit too time consuming. The local library wasn't any more help. What I need specifically is the following - How many hits deep into a web site will the average person go before bailing out and going to another site? I have seen something like 3 or 4 clicks deep but need some specifics. If anyone can help point me in the right direction I would sure appreciate. -- Chip www.wiegand.org ***** Visit my web site - Alternative Operating Systems - MS Windows isn't the only OS in town. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 8:58:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E099137B57B for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:58:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA30067; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:58:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Olaf Hoyer Cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: anybody seen this? In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000429145039.00a19a30@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 29 Apr 2000, Olaf Hoyer wrote: > Its like comparing a Volkswagen with a Volvo. They use the same > engines (at least the Diesel ones), but we all know what those brands > stand for. Actually I'm pretty sure that VW never shipped one of their vehicles with the I6 diesel; they knew better. The I6 'VW' diesels shipped in the 78-83 240 series Volvos had a really nasty habbit of early death in the 100k range due to oiling problems in #6. (As well as the rest of the problems experienced by the VW diesel engines.) The rest of the engines that Volvo used were their own; the early B16/18/20/30 and the later OHC B21/23/230/234 (Volvo also sold a 2l version of the B234 in markets with displacement caps). (I'm also ignoring the engines used in the DAF range of vehicles) The new line of engines in their FWD offerings are the 'modular' engine; designed by Porsche under contract, they offer I4, I5, and I6 versions of the block in NA and turbo versions. The American market hasn't seen much of the I4 version of the engine though it may be present in the S40/V40, which was just introduced this model year. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 10:52:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.Surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DDFE37B9CA for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9D38DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.157.56.220]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05485; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:50:37 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E12AC2C; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:55:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10682; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:51:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:51:10 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Michael Chin-Yuan Wu , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Procmail Filter for FreeBSD Mailing Lists and such Message-ID: <20000429195110.A10609@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <20000429115841.A2965@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from des@flood.ping.uio.no on Sat, Apr 29, 2000 at 02:16:13PM +0200 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Dag-Erling Smorgrav (des@flood.ping.uio.no): > It won't work for people who use QMail or Postfix, because they set No. I use Postfix myself. It set's an _additional_ Delivered-To:, it doesn't replace the former. Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org +[195.185.195.14]) by manta.mayn.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D196E9B003 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 15:13:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01863; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:17:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) But the thing in question is not Sender/Delivered-To, but the use of procmails split-rules, which DO own ;-) Alex -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 10:53: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from foobar.franken.de (foobar.franken.de [194.94.249.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A4BB37B5D2 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:53:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from logix@foobar.franken.de) Received: (from logix@localhost) by foobar.franken.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA19264; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:54:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <20000429195404.C18720@foobar.franken.de> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:54:04 +0200 From: Harold Gutch To: Michael Chin-Yuan Wu , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Procmail Filter for FreeBSD Mailing Lists and such References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Michael Chin-Yuan Wu on Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 09:18:40PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 09:18:40PM -0500, Michael Chin-Yuan Wu wrote: > I think this is about as tight a filter as I can get it to be. > This filter delivers the lists to your designated Mail dir and > into different mailboxes for each list. I did not make it a > complete filter for freebsd-*, but you should be able to modify it > to your taste. :) > > The filter is based on Jason E.'s filter and a post to the mailing lists > about nine months ago. > > If you make an improvement or you have a better filter, please > tell me/us. :0: * ^Sender:.owner-freebsd-\/[^@]+@FreeBSD.ORG { LISTNAME=${MATCH} :0 * LISTNAME??^\/[^@]+ FreeBSD-lists/${MATCH} } bye, Harold -- Someone should do a study to find out how many human life spans have been lost waiting for NT to reboot. Ken Deboy on Dec 24 1999 in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 11:19: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.Surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE16237B5E3 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:19:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9D38DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.157.56.220]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10556; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:17:43 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9834AC2C; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:22:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA11224; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:18:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:18:36 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Harold Gutch Cc: Michael Chin-Yuan Wu , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Procmail Filter for FreeBSD Mailing Lists and such Message-ID: <20000429201836.A11142@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <20000429195404.C18720@foobar.franken.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000429195404.C18720@foobar.franken.de>; from logix@foobar.franken.de on Sat, Apr 29, 2000 at 07:54:04PM +0200 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Also sprach Harold Gutch (logix@foobar.franken.de): > :0: > * ^Sender:.owner-freebsd-\/[^@]+@FreeBSD.ORG > { > LISTNAME=${MATCH} > :0 > * LISTNAME??^\/[^@]+ > FreeBSD-lists/${MATCH} > } That's even better than mine, since I have to add each list seperately since it could also be a committer who sends the stuff. the owner-* thing makes that impossible. nice. *vi .procmailrc* Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 16:45: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from happy.checkpoint.com (happy.checkpoint.com [199.203.156.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC59537BBAB for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 16:44:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mellon@pobox.com) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by happy.checkpoint.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA34090; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 02:44:16 GMT (envelope-from mellon@pobox.com) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 02:44:15 +0000 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: Olaf Hoyer Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: anybody seen this? Message-ID: <20000430024414.A33738@happy.checkpoint.com> References: <390A6DE7.25115F6C@asme.org> <4.1.20000429145039.00a19a30@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000429145039.00a19a30@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de>; from ohoyer@fbwi.fh-wilhelmshaven.de on Sat, Apr 29, 2000 at 02:57:26PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Apr 29, 2000 at 02:57:26PM +0200, Olaf Hoyer wrote: > Hi! > > Well, have a look at: http://www.gnu.org > > There it reads that Stallman decided to dedicate his life to free software, > and begun programming some new OS, beginning with a compiler. > But he ran into several difficulties with the kernel, and finally, as he > had some part of the userland ready, linux was "invented", and so he took > the kernel from linux, thus making it the GNU operating system with the > linux kernel, referred to as GNU/Linux. This is some very creative quoting you have here. I'm impressed. In fact, Stallman writes there (e.g. on http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html) quite explicitly that Linus Torvalds wrote Linux and not that it was "invented", and he specifically acknowledges *other* projects rather than GNU as those who integrated GNU stuff with the kernel. In particular, he stresses that the GNU project did not adapt glibc to Linux, not did it address boot/install issues. > Well, ok- Linux really is the kernel, and depending on the userland that > the vendors configure, it may be a GNU userland under the GPL, or it may be > some commercial environment, maybe one designed to run the new business > apps on the AS/400. Are you aware of how inane you sound here? I'd like you to point out to me any distribution of Linux which does not have cp(1), or uses cp(1) coming not from binutils. Presumably a *FreeBSD* user would be aware of OS being not just the kernel, as the unified OS development is one of the best things in BSDs versus Linux. To think what blind hatred makes of people... -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 17:36: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from super-g.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC42337C016 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:36:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: by super-g.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AED97BCC0; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8724ABCBF; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:36:04 -0400 (EDT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Terry Lambert Cc: Brett Glass , Damien Tougas , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD salary formula and a low key sales pitch... In-Reply-To: <200004290135.SAA12067@usr08.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Exactly what sort of folks are you looking for? I've been working for four years+ at an all FreeBSD ISP. I lean more towards routers than *nix boxes these days, but I'm still the lead "put those parts together" guy, and I have an uncanny knack for finding showstopping bugs in just about everything we eval. As you might guess, I'm a bit lost on what to do with my career at the moment. My daily tasks are all over the place, perl, mysql, routers, switches, hardware, purchasing decisions, telco relations... ISP work. Anyhow, I'm curious what you folks are looking for and what the telecommuting options are (I'm in NYC, and I like it here). Thanks, Charles --- Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com --- "...there's no idea that's so good you can't ruin it with a few well-placed idiots." On Sat, 29 Apr 2000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >Sales pitch: > > > > > >If you have been thinking about moving to the bay area... > > > > > >IBM has excellent benefits, educational reimbursement for post > > >graduate level study, sabbaticals, 401K matching, and a sick > > >leave policy that would permit a person with a doctors note to > > >miss up to 12 months in any 24 month period, if necessary. > > > > > >We (Whistle Communications, Inc.) are a predominantly FreeBSD > > >shop within IBM. We not only need good people and are willing > > >to pay for them (stock options are a 1:20 lottery, whereas a > > >higher base salary can be invested however you like, at whatever > > >level of risk you like, instead of betting the farm that your > > >startup will IPO before it burns all its cash), we also need > > >people to help spread the BSD gospel to the rest of IBM. 8-). > > > > All sounds good.... But what if folks want to live someplace > > really NICE, like Laramie? > > I believe we are open to telecommuting, for reasonable > definitions of that. You'd probably have to fly in for > two (or three) weeks to start, and then be willing to do > some phone/video conference time, telephone calls with > team meetings and your manager, and occasional fly ins > (at least once a month, perhaps more frequently, if there > were a lot of meetings because a project was kicking off > or nearing release). > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 17:36:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from azazel.zer0.org (azazel.zer0.org [209.133.53.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61EC137BC0B for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by azazel.zer0.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id RAA62903; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:35:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@zer0.org) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:35:55 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Michael Chin-Yuan Wu Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Procmail Filter for FreeBSD Mailing Lists and such Message-ID: <20000429173555.B60402@azazel.zer0.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from keichii@peorth.iteration.net on Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 09:18:40PM -0500 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2000-04-28 21:18 -0500, Michael Chin-Yuan Wu wrote: > I think this is about as tight a filter as I can get it to be. > This filter delivers the lists to your designated Mail dir and > into different mailboxes for each list. I did not make it a > complete filter for freebsd-*, but you should be able to modify it > to your taste. :) Using a separate recipe for each list isn't the fastest or shortest way. Here are excerpts from my filter set: ===== PMDIR=$HOME/.procmail FROM="((X-)?(((Envelope-)?Sender|(Apparently-|Resent-)?From)|Reply-To|Return-Path):(.*\<)?)" BSDLISTS="(advocacy|announce|arch|chat|current|cvs-committers|doc|emulation|hackers|hardware|ipfw|isp|jobs|mobile|mozilla|net|ports|ppc|qa|questions|security|small|smp|stable)" # this recipe grabs all doc commits and duplicates them in a mailbox # of their own. (I like to keep track.) :0 c * $ ^${FROM}freebsd.org * ^Sender:[ ]*owner-(freebsd-)?cvs-(all|committers) * ^Subject:[ ]*cvs commit: doc/ | formail -i "X-Fkey: freebsd-doc-commit" >> freebsd/doc-commit :0 * $ ^${FROM}freebsd.org { # create a cache, so that crossposted messages only show up once. :0 Wh : freebsd.lock | formail -D 32768 $PMDIR/freebsd.cache # segregate ports commits from cvs-all. put them in ports. :0 : * ^Subject:[ ]*cvs commit: ports/ | formail -i "X-Fkey: freebsd-ports-commit" >> freebsd/ports # sort all the rest. :0 * $ ^Sender:[ ]*owner-(freebsd-)?\/$BSDLISTS | formail -i "X-Fkey: freebsd-$MATCH" >> freebsd/$MATCH } ===== Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Black holes were created mailto:gsutter@zer0.org when God divided by zero. http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 18:37: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r22.bfm.org [216.127.220.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F39137B559 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:36:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id UAA00292; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:36:01 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:35:30 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: chip Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Internet Usage Statistics Message-ID: <20000429203530.A274@redprince.net> References: <00042907225200.05851@chip.wiegand.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <00042907225200.05851@chip.wiegand.org>; from chip@wiegand.org on Sat, Apr 29, 2000 at 07:19:20AM -0700 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-URL: http://www.whizkidtech.net/ X-Castle: http://www.redprince.net/ X-Special-Effects: http://www.FilmSFX.com/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD redprince.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Apr 29, 2000 at 07:19:20AM -0700, chip wrote: >How many hits deep into a web site will the average person go before >bailing out and going to another site? Wouldn't that depend on the web site? I do not know how "average" I am, but I mostly come to new web sites from search engines. If the web site has the information I am looking for, and I am able to see that (i.e., the pages do not take forever to load), I go through the web site for as long as it keeps me interested. I may even bookmark it and come back. If the web site does not hold my interest, I leave very quickly. Also, I tend to leave most free web sites very quickly. Not because they are free, but most of them tend to pop up a separate advertising window. If it only happens once, I just close the ad before it even finishes loading. But if it keeps popping up on every page, I'm outa there. On very few occasions, when such a free site was of extreme interest, have I stayed on it despite this nuisance: I went to my preferences and turned javascript off, just so I could navigate the site. But it had to be a super-interesting site for me to go through that trouble. And even in such a case, I am less likely to ever come back. Cheers, Adam -- Apply standard disk lamer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 19: 3:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD6B37B683 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:03:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from asme.org ([200.41.111.116]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4FFC; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:02:17 -0400 Message-ID: <390B9537.BAF45248@asme.org> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:06:47 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD salary formula and a low key sales pitch... References: <200004290135.SAA12067@usr08.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > > > >Sales pitch: > > > > > >If you have been thinking about moving to the bay area... > > > > > >IBM has excellent benefits, educational reimbursement for post > > >graduate level study, sabbaticals, 401K matching, and a sick > > >leave policy that would permit a person with a doctors note to > > >miss up to 12 months in any 24 month period, if necessary. > > > ... Heh, and I thought assistantships were well paid... ;-) Just curious, do you have internships ? cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 29 21:24:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [209.0.55.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4968937B58A for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 9498A75AE; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F8851D89; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:26:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Brett Glass Cc: Chris Dillon , "Dale E. Chulhan" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Best NIC / Best CDR-CDRW In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000428190631.04531a10@localhost> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Brett Glass wrote: :While going through a local company's junkbox, I came upon a NIC which :has an Intel *82557* chip. How does this compare to the later ones? Will :it work with FreeBSD's fxp driver? Will it do 100BaseTX full duplex? The 82557 is the original Pro/100B. It's the chip the driver was originally built on. Jamie Bowden -- "Of course, that's sort of like asking how other than Marketing, Microsoft is different from any other software company..." Kenneth G. Cavness To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message