From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 3 11:39:41 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 3 11:39:38 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EBB237B400 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:39:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24681; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 12:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAACOaOlW; Sun Dec 3 12:34:56 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29429; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 12:39:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200012031939.MAA29429@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Here is what IBM thinks about using FreeBSD on their newer To: rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in (Rahul Siddharthan) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 19:39:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001201134530.H61418@lpt.ens.fr> from "Rahul Siddharthan" at Dec 01, 2000 01:45:31 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tlambert@usr05.primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > His ideology may eventually win (IMO, to the detriment of us > > all), but I don't think that he is going to be able to force > > the issue this way; it is more likely he will slit his own > > throat with the attempt. Of course, this was always a > > danger of the "or later version of the license". > > As I said, I think this ASP clause is a bad idea. But I also think > ASPs are a bad idea and clueful people will prefer running > well-maintained code on their own systems. I don't even think the > usual arguments for freeing the code (fixing your own bugs, etc, as in > RMS's old story of the printer with the closed-source driver) work > for freeing ASP code. What will you do after you fix the bugs: set up > your own ASP server? If you can do that you didn't need to use an ASP > in the first place. I actually have to weigh in against this. Logically, this would mean that I would not buy Stronghold (Apache+SSL+X.509 certificate), since I can have the software for free, now that OpenSSL includes an RSA implementation, and RSA is off patent. $1000 is a lot to pay for just a certificate. The fallacy here is that it devalues the installation and the productization work that went into the package -- what Geoffrey Moore calls "the whole product". Frankly, I think that the idea of a "WhiteHat FreeBSD" has merit because of the value that could be added through installation and productization (but the FreeBSD trademark controllers have specifically said that they would not permit the use of the trademark in that context). I think, most free software is only usable by technophiles, and that a large part of the succes of Linux is attributable to someone making the technology accessible to non-technophiles. > But the "or later version" is an option only, and code which is now > distributed under GPL2 can be distributed under GPL2 for all time. > Moreover, the author can choose not to allow that option. I seem to > remember Linus removing the "or later version" clause for the linux > kernel recently, though I may be wrong. This was a wise decision, IMO. Spo was the decision to treat the kernel as a shared library for the purposes of kernel modules, and several other decisions that have been made in that same genre: this is where we see the distinction between GPL ideology, and real-world practicality, most clearly. > > I also see it as being problematic for things like Linux, > > which unlike the FSF tools, accept contributions without > > having to have the rights granted to a single legal > > entity. The problem with that has always been that any > > author could claim version differences for their code > > contributed to the project. > > In the linux case, Linus could always refuse to accept patches > not contributed under GPL v2. I really doubt that the code is audited that closely, on the assumption that the contributions in the form of patches are a derivative work, and thus tmust themselves be GPL'ed. The problem with this is that if I made my patches against a pre modified license kernel, and they were incorporated, Linus can not really legally change the license without violating my copyright. For the code I've personally contributed, I have no problem with giving him the rights to do this, but realize that this is a place where political differences are fairly prominent within the GPL community itself (I don't count myself as a member, though I've contributed code to a dozen or more GPL'ed projects). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 3 11:42:10 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 3 11:42:07 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0770C37B400; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:42:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02098; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 12:39:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAagaiee; Sun Dec 3 12:39:49 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29454; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 12:41:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200012031941.MAA29454@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Here is what IBM thinks about using FreeBSD on their newer To: blk@skynet.be (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 19:41:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brad Knowles" at Dec 01, 2000 01:31:17 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tlambert@usr05.primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > As far as the Cobalt stuff goes, NetBSD runs on the x86 RAQ and > > Qube things, so getting FreeBSD going would probably be trivial, > > if someone hasn't done it already. > > I'd be interested in hearing more about this, if anyone has any > information. Apparently, the Cobalt MIPS runs NetBSD, but the x86 has custom firmware to load the kernel, and the port to that is in progress and has not yet been completed. Sorry for the premature "it works". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 3 12:23:54 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 3 12:23:51 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F0837B400 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 12:23:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08908; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 13:20:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAARkaazr; Sun Dec 3 13:20:27 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01195; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 13:23:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200012032023.NAA01195@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Here is what IBM thinks about using FreeBSD on their newer To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:23:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in (Rahul Siddharthan), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001201190548.044fa3b0@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at Dec 01, 2000 07:22:17 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tlambert@usr05.primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >He may have a point on scripts. Scripts are generally in > >the category "throw away code" (the same place I choose to > >put "fetchmail"), and so cost relatively little to create. > >If the creation cost is very low, then the amount one needs > >to benefit from the code in order to amortize developement > >costs is also very low, and so it could be that the value > >they get back would easily exceed the value they lose by > >releasing the code. > > The problem is that some programs written in "scripting > languages" are not throw-aways at all. Many companies who > add value to arcane systems by providing them with user- > friendly GUIs (of which Whistle was one!) do it via these > languages. I've worked for companies whose entire base of > IP (and expertise!) was embodied in Perl scripts. Sorry, this is wrong. All but a few lines of Whistle UI code is compiled C or C++. The code which is not was intended to be rewritten (i.e. thrown away) for performance reasons. I think companies whose entire base of IP is based on perl scripts are probably in a world of hurt in the first place, and really _deservee_ to go out of business, in the second, since they give lie to the "engineering" in the phrase "software engineering". Unless you have a methodology that can provide formal proof of correctness for Perl scripts? I've seen a number of companies that provide "performance monitoring tools for Java-based e-commerce soloutions"; I'll give you one for free: #!/bin/sh while true do sleep 300 echo "It's Java, what do you expect, moron?!?" done Don't get me wrong: scripting has it's place: o Startup o Shutdown o Installation o Deinstallation o One time configuration o Prototypes of code intended to be rewritten in compiled languages before large scale deployment takes place > It could be worse than that. Since FreeBSD is compiled by GCC, > he could set things up so that that any binary of FreeBSD that's > compiled by a GPL3ed version of GCC is considered to be a > "performance" of a GPLed program, with all of the effects that > this might entail. He has a strong incentive to do this, since > it would throw alternatives to Linux -- including BeOS! -- into > turmoil. I personally believe that Stallman, Perens, and > others WILL attempt to close this noose; it's just a matter of > WHEN they'll do it. This is unlikely, and would not be upheld by the courts. In particular, the act of the compilation is the performance, not the running of the compiled program. You could no more claim FreeBSD as a performance than you could claim that your CD player belonged to BMG because you place a CD by one of their artists. > >I also see it as being problematic for things like Linux, > >which unlike the FSF tools, accept contributions without > >having to have the rights granted to a single legal > >entity. The problem with that has always been that any > >author could claim version differences for their code > >contributed to the project. Having a trap-door clause > >that lets any author do the same with a performance > >clause will, I predict, open a can of worms that could > >kill the GPL for good. > > In theory, yes. But in practice, the FSF will own so much > code that's vital to projects such as FreeBSD that, protest > as they will, they'll be between a rock and a hard place. I > believe that by adopting any GPLed code at all, FreeBSD is > painting itself into a corner. YMMV, of course. In practice, so long as there is not an FSF monopoly in any region, this is not possible, and you are claiming that the sky is falling. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 3 12:54:36 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 3 12:54:35 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from relay4.inwind.it (unknown [212.141.53.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3C337B400 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 12:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from bartequi.ottodomain.org (62.98.162.184) by relay4.inwind.it (5.1.046) id 3A1269530023E33E; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:53:57 +0100 From: Salvo Bartolotta Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 20:55:18 GMT Message-ID: <20001203.20551800@bartequi.ottodomain.org> Subject: Subject: Re: Tyr'd with all this pronunciation thread To: Peter Lai , "'Y u r i '" , Cliff Sarginson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: SuperCalifragilis X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My apologies. It was a bit late, and I indicated, as it were, the first edition of the book -- actually, I have both "editions". I should have written: "A Comprehensive Grammar Of The English Language" by Quirk, Greenbaum, Leech, Svartvik, published in 1985 by Longman (~ 1,800 pages). Best regards, Salvo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 3 15:55:54 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 3 15:55:51 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2874737B400; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:55:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from c996775-a.vncvr1.wa.home.com ([24.16.193.228]) by femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20001203235548.SRTC24833.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c996775-a.vncvr1.wa.home.com>; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:55:48 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:55:59 +0000 From: Y u r i X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.47 Halloween Edition) Personal Reply-To: Y u r i X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <17412774268.20001203235559@home.com> To: Salvo Bartolotta Cc: Peter Lai , Cliff Sarginson , , Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Tyr'd with all this pronunciation thread In-reply-To: <20001203.20551800@bartequi.ottodomain.org> References: <20001203.20551800@bartequi.ottodomain.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Salvo, Sunday, December 03, 2000, 20:55:18, you wrote: SB> I should have written: "A Comprehensive Grammar Of The English SB> Language" by Quirk, Greenbaum, Leech, Svartvik, published in 1985 by SB> Longman (~ 1,800 pages). Jesperson should suffice :-) -- Best regards, Y To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 3 17:52:17 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 3 17:52:15 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4524437B400; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 17:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 69A5D573C2; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 19:52:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 19:52:26 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Terry Lambert Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, bp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: installing freebsd from windows nt without using boot disks Message-ID: <20001203195226.A53011@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" References: <14888.13097.187777.80105@guru.mired.org> <200012032159.OAA02961@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200012032159.OAA02961@usr05.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Sun, Dec 03, 2000 at 09:59:42PM +0000 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved from -questions/-advocacy to -chat] On Sun, Dec 03, 2000 at 09:59:42PM +0000, Terry Lambert scribbled: | xavian anderson macpherson types: | > and UFS to write to NTFS COMPRESSED, | This is a matter of code and of someone dedicating the effort to | write it. I would go so far to say that, other than VOP_ABORT, | it is nothing more than "grunt work". The major amount of the | effort would be dealing with the log and the compression. | | If you are willing to provide the equipment and software I would | need, and willing to put up a surety bond that I will be paid | $170,000 for completing the work in no less than 3 months and | no more than 6 months, I'd be willing to do the work. If you | are willing to change that to $510,000, I will do it as a | work-for-hire, which would mean that you would keep the rights | to sell, license, or otherwise dispose of the code, since you, | not I, would be the copyright holder. Realize that other limits | may apply, since I would start with the read-only NTFS code that | is in FreeBSD today (prices go up for a wholly independent work). | My risk is that, if I do not complete the work, I do not get | paid. I'm open to negotiation on timeframe and amount, of | course, and would provide for a time-limited exclusivity for | somewhere in the middle of the two amounts. USD$170,000.00, excluding equipment, for 3-6 months of work? :) I think I can hire a couple CS phD.'s for a year to do the job. Or, for that money for a year, any committers willing to take it? :) Heck, I know an Indian cs.utexas.edu phd. candidate who is a unix/linux guru who took a USD$7/hr kernel programming job. (Yes, he was stupid and did not know the going rates for a guy like him.) Boris, How much is USD$170,000.00 in Russian Rubles? And if you do not mind, please give us a rough estimate of how much a Russian kernel hacker gets paid an year? :) USD$510,000.00 for copyright, code, and one unix-guru's 6 months' work. Hmmm, where do I sign up for the job? :) (just kidding, no hard feelings) :-D -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 3 18:53: 1 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 3 18:53:00 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dell.dannyland.org (dell.dannyland.org [64.81.36.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6389A37B400 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:53:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by dell.dannyland.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id AD7FB5BF3; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:52:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:52:59 -0800 From: dannyman To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Ron Rosson , FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1RU kits / servers? Message-ID: <20001203185259.E5979@dell.dannyland.org> References: <20001120072438.A97848@lunatic.oneinsane.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 04:28:57PM +0100 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: dannyman@toldme.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 04:28:57PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > "Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson" writes: > > There is the intel ISP1100 servers. Here is a link to specs and > > information: > > > > http://www.intel.com/network/products/isp1100.htm > > One of my customers has a bunch of those, they run FreeBSD just fine. their serial console is a translation of the VGA signal. it is nice to have serial bios, but it doesn't work so great. 2c -d To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 3 21:42:17 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 3 21:42:13 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost01.reflexnet.net (mailhost01.reflexnet.net [64.6.192.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 533A037B400 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com ([64.6.211.149]) by mailhost01.reflexnet.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:40:38 -0800 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB45g9044244 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:42:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:42:09 -0800 From: "Crist J . Clark" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: CVSup Problems Message-ID: <20001203214209.A99903@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: cjc@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There was a thread that found its way on to here the other day. The topic was how easy and low-bandwidth CVSup is to use with people making statements like, "5 minutes on a dial-up link," to CVSup an existing source tree. I once would have agreed, but I have been having a really frustrating time with CVSup. I am hoping someone can help me debug this. Here is an example of what I see. I tried to CVSup STABLE this afternoon, # cvsup -P- -g complete-supfile Connected to cvsup11.freeBSD.org Updating collection src-base/cvs Updating collection src-bin/cvs Updating collection src-contrib/cvs TreeList failed: Network write failure: Connection timed out Will retry at 12:00:42 Retrying Connected to cvsup11.freeBSD.org Updating collection src-base/cvs Updating collection src-bin/cvs Updating collection src-contrib/cvs Updating collection src-etc/cvs Updating collection src-games/cvs Updating collection src-gnu/cvs Updating collection src-include/cvs Updating collection src-lib/cvs Updating collection src-libexec/cvs Updating collection src-release/cvs Edit src/release/texts/alpha/HARDWARE.TXT Updating collection src-sbin/cvs Updating collection src-share/cvs Updating collection src-sys/cvs TreeList failed: Network write failure: Connection timed out Will retry at 13:17:23 Retrying Connected to cvsup11.freeBSD.org Updating collection src-base/cvs Updating collection src-bin/cvs Updating collection src-contrib/cvs TreeList failed: Network write failure: Connection timed out Will retry at 14:24:40 Retrying Connected to cvsup11.freeBSD.org Updating collection src-base/cvs Updating collection src-bin/cvs Updating collection src-contrib/cvs TreeList failed: Network write failure: Connection timed out Will retry at 15:49:32 Retrying Connected to cvsup11.freeBSD.org Updating collection src-base/cvs Updating collection src-bin/cvs Updating collection src-contrib/cvs TreeList failed: Network write failure: Connection timed out Will retry at 17:28:32 Retrying Connected to cvsup11.freeBSD.org Updating collection src-base/cvs Updating collection src-bin/cvs Updating collection src-contrib/cvs TreeList failed: Network write failure: Connection timed out Will retry at 19:49:38 ^C I've sat and watched with a tcpdump and I see packets going out to the server but no responses. In this example, it's cvsup11, but this happens no matter which server I try. Nor does time of day or day of the week seem to matter. This makes me think it is either a problem with me or my ISP. I thought my dynamic rules on the firewall were timing out TCP connections too soon so I cranked those up, but the tcpdump shows that nothing was coming back. I typically don't have any problems with downloads over other services, but I wonder about the upload end. Uploads can be painful the few times I've moved anything big (though scp). IIRC, CVSup pushes some data upstream? Could this be my problem? Anyone have some ideas of what to look at? Anyone have CVSup problems and manage to fix them? -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 3 21:45:56 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 3 21:45:52 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from uswgne22.uswest.com (uswgne22.uswest.com [204.26.87.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B4437B400; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from egate-co4.uswc.uswest.com (egate-co4.uswc.uswest.com [151.116.25.51]) by uswgne22.uswest.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eB45joj25480; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:45:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from duntx003.litel.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by egate-co4.uswc.uswest.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eB45jns23917; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:45:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by DUNTX003 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 00:44:49 -0500 Message-ID: <9D35FA2F8EFCD111BA5A00805FA75E8708BB9B94@fdntx001> From: "Cribbins, Jason" To: Libby Charles-CCL044 , "'Joe.Warner@smed.com'" , '@egate-co4.uswc.uswest.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG', freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Searching The Skies Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 00:37:42 -0500 Return-Receipt-To: "Cribbins, Jason" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org They have text clients that run on just about every CPU/OS platform I have ever heard of. I know for certain they have FreeBSD i386 because I am using it myself. -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Libby Charles-CCL044 Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 1:30 PM To: 'Joe.Warner@smed.com'; ',freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG'; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: 'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG' Subject: RE: Searching The Skies The Setiathome is running only on M$ machines. There is no Apple or Linux or FreeBSD version of the program. Do a search on Yahoo for "Setiathome" there are some interesting links. Charles Check out this story, titled "Searching The Skies" at the bottom of the page: Since this is taking place at Berkeley, I wonder what "PCs" Mr. Loen is referring to and which OS their running on.? Cheers Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 3 22:19: 2 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 3 22:19:00 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from relay.butya.kz (butya-gw.butya.kz [212.154.129.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53C237B400 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by relay.butya.kz (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A65F428867; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:18:55 +0600 (ALMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.butya.kz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B22C287FF; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:18:55 +0600 (ALMT) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:18:55 +0600 (ALMT) From: Boris Popov To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: installing freebsd from windows nt without using boot disks In-Reply-To: <20001203195226.A53011@peorth.iteration.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Michael C . Wu wrote: > Boris, How much is USD$170,000.00 in Russian Rubles? > And if you do not mind, please give us a rough estimate of how much > a Russian kernel hacker gets paid an year? :) > > USD$510,000.00 for copyright, code, and one unix-guru's 6 months' work. > Hmmm, where do I sign up for the job? :) Well, lets do some calculations to convert these trailing zeros to a monthly "salary": 170000 / 6 = 28333.3(3) 510000 / 6 = 85000.00 The first number is about 18 - 36 times bigger than the monthly salary of the good C/C++ programmer (one may calculate the same for a second number, I don't wan't to look at result :). Eg, if you find a way to transfer money to the CIS area, then someone (possibly a group of people) can easily dedicate 12 hours per day for this task :) -- Boris Popov http://www.butya.kz/~bp/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 3 22:42:50 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 3 22:42:48 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E62337B400 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:42:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D93AE573C4; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 00:42:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 00:42:58 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Boris Popov Cc: Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: installing freebsd from windows nt without using boot disks Message-ID: <20001204004258.A54339@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" References: <20001203195226.A53011@peorth.iteration.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from bp@butya.kz on Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 12:18:55PM +0600 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 12:18:55PM +0600, Boris Popov scribbled: | On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Michael C . Wu wrote: | > Boris, How much is USD$170,000.00 in Russian Rubles? | > And if you do not mind, please give us a rough estimate of how much | > a Russian kernel hacker gets paid an year? :) | > | > USD$510,000.00 for copyright, code, and one unix-guru's 6 months' work. | > Hmmm, where do I sign up for the job? :) | Well, lets do some calculations to convert these trailing zeros | to a monthly "salary": | | 170000 / 6 = 28333.3(3) | 510000 / 6 = 85000.00 | | The first number is about 18 - 36 times bigger than the monthly | salary of the good C/C++ programmer (one may calculate the same for a | second number, I don't wan't to look at result :). Eg, if you find a way | to transfer money to the CIS area, then someone (possibly a group of | people) can easily dedicate 12 hours per day for this task :) Why, here are some stats regarding programmers in Taiwan and China: (Taiwan has a much higher living standard than China) Taiwan: CS phD./MS graduates with up to 4 years experience from NTU/NCTU/NTHU/NCKU (The top 4 technical school in Taiwan, graduates usually go abroad to study in MIT/Stanford/Cambridge/Berkelely/Oxford. Yes, your VIA chipsets, D-Link boards, Realtek, Abit, Asus, et al. were designed by these people) NTD$60000/month = USD$2000/month Excellent programmers in Taiwan, professors, IEEE-CS/ACM Fellows in OS or Filesystems = USD$4000/month $170000/6 ~= $28000/month ($28000/month)/($4000/month) = 7 times China: CS phd/ms graduates with 4 years experience from various top of the line universities. (China's whole population competing for 50000 (at most) enrollment seats. cream of the crop) RMB$1000/month = USD$200/month Excellent programmers, professors, IEEE-CS/ACM Fellows specializing in filesystems in China= USD$400/month $170000/6 ~= $28000/month ($28000/month)/($400/month) = 70 times Hence, if I were to take Terry's consulting contracts at half price and contract them out in various other countries. I could be making 50%-75% profit and maybe produce a possibly better product in a much shorter timeframe. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 4 1: 9:24 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 4 01:09:21 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (adsl-64-163-195-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.163.195.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62A1637B400 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 01:09:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eB4993D55119; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 01:09:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200012040909.eB4993D55119@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CVSup Problems In-Reply-To: <20001203214209.A99903@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 01:09:03 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Crist J . Clark" wrote: > There was a thread that found its way on to here the other day. The > topic was how easy and low-bandwidth CVSup is to use with people > making statements like, "5 minutes on a dial-up link," to CVSup an > existing source tree. > > I once would have agreed, but I have been having a really frustrating > time with CVSup. I am hoping someone can help me debug this. > > Here is an example of what I see. I tried to CVSup STABLE this > afternoon, > > # cvsup -P- -g complete-supfile > Connected to cvsup11.freeBSD.org > Updating collection src-base/cvs > Updating collection src-bin/cvs > Updating collection src-contrib/cvs > TreeList failed: Network write failure: Connection timed out > Will retry at 12:00:42 > Retrying > Connected to cvsup11.freeBSD.org > Updating collection src-base/cvs > Updating collection src-bin/cvs [..] > Edit src/release/texts/alpha/HARDWARE.TXT > Updating collection src-sbin/cvs > Updating collection src-share/cvs > Updating collection src-sys/cvs > TreeList failed: Network write failure: Connection timed out > Will retry at 13:17:23 > Retrying > Connected to cvsup11.freeBSD.org > Updating collection src-base/cvs [..] > > I've sat and watched with a tcpdump and I see packets going out to the > server but no responses. In this example, it's cvsup11, but this > happens no matter which server I try. Nor does time of day or day of > the week seem to matter. This makes me think it is either a problem > with me or my ISP. I thought my dynamic rules on the firewall were > timing out TCP connections too soon so I cranked those up, but the > tcpdump shows that nothing was coming back. > > I typically don't have any problems with downloads over other > services, but I wonder about the upload end. Uploads can be painful > the few times I've moved anything big (though scp). IIRC, CVSup pushes > some data upstream? Could this be my problem? > > Anyone have some ideas of what to look at? Anyone have CVSup problems > and manage to fix them? I have seen strange cvsup stuff in the recent past that was solved by using the "-Pa" (active mode) or "-P-" (passive mode). The other thing to try is to do something like this: route change default -lock -mtu 1400 and/or route change cvsup11.freebsd.org -lock -mtu 1400 You can try lower numbers, down to say 500.. The interesting thing is that the cvsup client mostly *uploads* data, which is in the opposite direction to usual ISP dialup traffic. This means you can run into outbound problems that you didn't know you had, eg: a silent MTU problem. Anyway, there are a couple of ideas to try. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 4 5:43:54 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 4 05:43:51 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E165A37B400 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 05:43:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id eB4DhaH86213 ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:43:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id OAA18890 ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:43:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:43:38 +0100 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Terry Lambert Cc: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Here is what IBM thinks about using FreeBSD on their newer Message-ID: <20001204144337.B13990@lpt.ens.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Terry Lambert , Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20001201134530.H61418@lpt.ens.fr> <200012031939.MAA29429@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200012031939.MAA29429@usr05.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Sun, Dec 03, 2000 at 07:39:17PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert said on Dec 3, 2000 at 19:39:17: > > > I also see it as being problematic for things like Linux, > > > which unlike the FSF tools, accept contributions without > > > having to have the rights granted to a single legal > > > entity. The problem with that has always been that any > > > author could claim version differences for their code > > > contributed to the project. > > > > In the linux case, Linus could always refuse to accept patches > > not contributed under GPL v2. > > I really doubt that the code is audited that closely, on the > assumption that the contributions in the form of patches are > a derivative work, and thus tmust themselves be GPL'ed. The > problem with this is that if I made my patches against a pre > modified license kernel, and they were incorporated, Linus > can not really legally change the license without violating > my copyright. For the code I've personally contributed, I > have no problem with giving him the rights to do this, but > realize that this is a place where political differences are > fairly prominent within the GPL community itself (I don't > count myself as a member, though I've contributed code to a > dozen or more GPL'ed projects). I guess you're right that there is a problem in principle. In practice, I doubt anyone would end up suing Linus over such a thing, the worst that may happen is backing out the GPLv3 patches after they "came to light." Much worse license problems (like KDE) have been sorted out peacefully. However, if Brett wants to do to linux what he always claims the GPL folks are trying to do to BSD, I guess this is a possibility for him... As for these conspiracy theories about the GPL crowd, Perens is loud but not really so credible; the only one who counts eventually is Stallman, and I don't believe he is really anti-BSD. I have corresponded with him a couple of times, and he seemed to have a high regard for the BSDs, though they aren't "his" projects. I've heard the same from people who've met him. Also take a look at http://www.LinuxMedNews.org/linuxmednews/974769856/index_html where the original article said "There are other licenses that have different restrictions, particularly with regard to commercial use of software such as the FreeBSD License. The Free Software Foundation does not consider these licenses to be 'Free' licenses." and he answers, "Actually we do consider them free licenses. Both the original BSD license, and the revised one preferred by the FreeBSD developers (and adopted by Berkeley a couple of years ago) qualify as free software licenses, like the X11 license. We have used code available under these licenses as part of the GNU system since the 1980s." This is not the main subject of the article and he did not really have to correct this statement, but he does anyway. R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 4 14:37:28 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 4 14:37:27 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6C737B400 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:37:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25445 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:37:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001204153636.04ce1100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 15:37:16 -0700 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Somogyi article on OpenBSD also mentions FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org See http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2660398,00.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 4 16:26:11 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 4 16:26:09 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E0FF37B400; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:26:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19264; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:17:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAQkailL; Mon Dec 4 17:16:44 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA13022; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:20:31 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200012050020.RAA13022@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: installing freebsd from windows nt without using boot disks To: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:20:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, bp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001203195226.A53011@peorth.iteration.net> from "Michael C . Wu" at Dec 03, 2000 07:52:26 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tlambert@usr02.primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > USD$170,000.00, excluding equipment, for 3-6 months of work? :) > I think I can hire a couple CS phD.'s for a year to do the job. > Or, for that money for a year, any committers willing to take it? :) > Heck, I know an Indian cs.utexas.edu phd. candidate who is a unix/linux > guru who took a USD$7/hr kernel programming job. (Yes, he was > stupid and did not know the going rates for a guy like him.) > > Boris, How much is USD$170,000.00 in Russian Rubles? > And if you do not mind, please give us a rough estimate of how much > a Russian kernel hacker gets paid an year? :) > > USD$510,000.00 for copyright, code, and one unix-guru's 6 months' work. > Hmmm, where do I sign up for the job? :) > > (just kidding, no hard feelings) :-D No offense taken. FWIW: Much consulting is done at the $150/hour level in the US, particularly in Silicon Valley. You would be hard pressed to purchase a home in the Silicon Valley area, with a bedroom and yard for a kid, and in a good school district, for less than $1 million. After taxes, $150/hour comes to about $68/hour (state + federal come to ~55%). That ~14 years of work, assuming a 7% interest home loan, and your entire paycheck going to nothing but mortgage payements, with 0% property taxes, no home owner fees, and no maintenance costs (basically, it assumes both you and your wife getting about the same income for that period). Why, what does it cost for a 3 bedroom, 10 year old house in a good school district in India? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 4 16:59:17 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 4 16:59:15 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FF9A37B400 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:59:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08856; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:55:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAOOayen; Mon Dec 4 17:51:06 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15603; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:54:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200012050054.RAA15603@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: installing freebsd from windows nt without using boot disks To: keichii@peorth.iteration.net Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:54:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: bp@butya.kz (Boris Popov), tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001204004258.A54339@peorth.iteration.net> from "Michael C . Wu" at Dec 04, 2000 12:42:58 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tlambert@usr02.primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hence, if I were to take Terry's consulting contracts at half price > and contract them out in various other countries. I could be > making 50%-75% profit and maybe produce a possibly better product > in a much shorter timeframe. Realize that the charge I stated is about 1.5 times the going rate for a consultant hired through a consulting contracting company in the Silicon Valley. These companies normally operate at a 40%-60% profit (they have their employees over a barrel, since most have obtained their work visa through the consulting company, so they can't go work elsewhere). So consider that 60% is common: $170,000 * .4 = $68,000 going to the contractor themselves. That's $136,000/year, asumming it took 6 months for the work, or $91,000, without the 1.5 * premium. If you think that is a lot of money, and have a visa or a green card, and are willing to work without stock options, and are of any quality at all, I suggest: http://www.whistle.com/employment/employ-engg.html Or you can go to any one of thousands of other companies, on similar terms. NB: And if you wouldn't charge a 1.5 times premium to have to figure out Windows compatability code from disk image deltas, you're clinically insane). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 4 17:45:50 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 4 17:45:48 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DBE737B400 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:45:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA02409; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAOFaOMo; Mon Dec 4 17:36:12 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA14259; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:40:39 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200012050040.RAA14259@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: installing freebsd from windows nt without using boot disks To: bp@butya.kz (Boris Popov) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:40:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: keichii@peorth.iteration.net (Michael C . Wu), tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Boris Popov" at Dec 04, 2000 12:18:55 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tlambert@usr02.primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Boris, How much is USD$170,000.00 in Russian Rubles? > > And if you do not mind, please give us a rough estimate of how much > > a Russian kernel hacker gets paid an year? :) > > > > USD$510,000.00 for copyright, code, and one unix-guru's 6 months' work. > > Hmmm, where do I sign up for the job? :) > > Well, lets do some calculations to convert these trailing zeros > to a monthly "salary": > > 170000 / 6 = 28333.3(3) > 510000 / 6 = 85000.00 > > The first number is about 18 - 36 times bigger than the monthly > salary of the good C/C++ programmer (one may calculate the same for a > second number, I don't wan't to look at result :). Eg, if you find a way > to transfer money to the CIS area, then someone (possibly a group of > people) can easily dedicate 12 hours per day for this task :) That's 20k down to 10k a year. In the SV area, you are talking: 2 BDRM apt: $2,000/month = $24,000/year = $53,000/year before taxes So those prices are very cheap. For the particular project referenced, you will need an NT system and several scratch disks, so that you can examine the state changes in identical FS's, until you can create identical changes as a result. You will need a full Windows developement system, including the driver develeopement kit and the standard kit (DDK and SDK). You will also need to beg/borrow/bribe a copy of a Windows NT IFS sample code. The best place to get this is the NT 3.5.1 1996 developer's conference ISO 9660 sample installable FS. You will also need Helen Custer's "Inside NTFS book", and the FreeBSD NTFS code, which is read-only. Finally, you will need a detailed understanding of log structured FSs, as well as the problems the current FreeBSD VFS has with such animals, and where it would be modified. So yeah, it's a little high, but the programmer is assuming risk, and charging for some expensive to acquire knowledge, and working with software that is no fun to work with, so there has to be an expectation of paying a premium for the work. If someone else is willing to do the work for less, fine; I still don't see anyone willing to fund the work, though, so this is probably a pointless discussion. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 5 0:17:41 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 00:17:38 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost01.reflexnet.net (mailhost01.reflexnet.net [64.6.192.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EFDB37B400 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com ([64.6.211.149]) by mailhost01.reflexnet.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:16:04 -0800 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB58HX053314; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:17:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:17:33 -0800 From: "Crist J . Clark" To: Peter Wemm Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CVSup Problems Message-ID: <20001205001732.D99903@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <20001203214209.A99903@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> <200012040909.eB4993D55119@mobile.wemm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200012040909.eB4993D55119@mobile.wemm.org>; from peter@netplex.com.au on Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 01:09:03AM -0800 Sender: cjc@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 01:09:03AM -0800, Peter Wemm wrote: > "Crist J . Clark" wrote: > > There was a thread that found its way on to here the other day. The > > topic was how easy and low-bandwidth CVSup is to use with people > > making statements like, "5 minutes on a dial-up link," to CVSup an > > existing source tree. > > > > I once would have agreed, but I have been having a really frustrating > > time with CVSup. I am hoping someone can help me debug this. [snip] > I have seen strange cvsup stuff in the recent past that was solved by using > the "-Pa" (active mode) or "-P-" (passive mode). Since I'm behind by ipfw(8), I always explicitly tell it to run passive, '-P-'. > The other thing to try is to do something like this: > > route change default -lock -mtu 1400 > and/or > route change cvsup11.freebsd.org -lock -mtu 1400 > > You can try lower numbers, down to say 500.. Yeah, I have tried that. Things seem to get a little farther sometimes, but it still usually times out. > The interesting thing is that the cvsup client mostly *uploads* data, which > is in the opposite direction to usual ISP dialup traffic. This means you > can run into outbound problems that you didn't know you had, eg: a silent > MTU problem. > > Anyway, there are a couple of ideas to try. I just ran it with a 1000 MTU, and it got past src-gnu which is the other toughie besides src-contrib. But I wonder if the problem isn't this, # tcpdump -nvv src host cvsup11.freebsd.org tcpdump: listening on fxp0 00:12:38.149999 63.87.62.77.5999 > 64.6.211.149.3860: . 873996964:873996964(0) ack 818321386 win 17520 (DF) (ttl 54, id 12958) 00:12:38.372235 63.87.62.77.5999 > 64.6.211.149.3860: . 0:0(0) ack 1921 win 17520 (DF) (ttl 54, id 12959) 00:12:38.497451 63.87.62.77.5999 > 64.6.211.149.3860: P 0:55(55) ack 2881 win 17520 (DF) (ttl 54, id 12961) 00:12:38.668107 63.87.62.77.5999 > 64.6.211.149.3860: P 55:620(565) ack 2881 win 17520 (DF) (ttl 54, id 12964) 00:12:38.669711 63.87.62.77.2436 > 64.6.211.149.3861: P 877097933:877098029(96) ack 820899035 win 17520 (DF) (ttl 54, id 12965) 00:12:38.783758 63.87.62.77.2436 > 64.6.211.149.3861: P 96:188(92) ack 687 win 17520 (DF) (ttl 54, id 12967) 00:12:38.991456 63.87.62.77.2436 > 64.6.211.149.3861: P 188:1111(923) ack 687 win 17520 (DF) (ttl 54, id 12968) Why does it insist on setting the DF bit? But this is downstream and that does not seem to be the likely problem. Oh well. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 5 1:25:53 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 01:25:52 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F357737B400 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 01:25:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22933; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:25:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Sender: des@ofug.org X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: Peter Wemm , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CVSup Problems References: <20001203214209.A99903@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> <200012040909.eB4993D55119@mobile.wemm.org> <20001205001732.D99903@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 05 Dec 2000 10:25:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Crist J . Clark"'s message of "Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:17:33 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Crist J . Clark" writes: > Since I'm behind by ipfw(8), I always explicitly tell it to run > passive, '-P-'. Why? The default is multiplexed, which works just fine regardless of firewalls. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 5 1:29:55 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 01:29:52 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72E237B402; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 01:29:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id eB59TUH71594 ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:29:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id KAA62119 ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:29:36 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:29:36 +0100 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Terry Lambert Cc: keichii@peorth.iteration.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, bp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: installing freebsd from windows nt without using boot disks Message-ID: <20001205102935.A61625@lpt.ens.fr> References: <20001203195226.A53011@peorth.iteration.net> <200012050020.RAA13022@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200012050020.RAA13022@usr02.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 12:20:31AM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert said on Dec 5, 2000 at 00:20:31: > No offense taken. > > FWIW: Much consulting is done at the $150/hour level in the US, > particularly in Silicon Valley. > > You would be hard pressed to purchase a home in the Silicon > Valley area, with a bedroom and yard for a kid, and in a good > school district, for less than $1 million. > > After taxes, $150/hour comes to about $68/hour (state + federal > come to ~55%). > > That ~14 years of work, assuming a 7% interest home loan, and > your entire paycheck going to nothing but mortgage payements, > with 0% property taxes, no home owner fees, and no maintenance > costs (basically, it assumes both you and your wife getting > about the same income for that period). > > Why, what does it cost for a 3 bedroom, 10 year old house in a > good school district in India? Depends in which city. In Bangalore (India's "software capital" many call it) or Madras I think one can rent such a place, well located and well furnished, for under $500 a month; buying it may cost perhaps $50000. It would be much more expensive in Bombay (if it's possible at all) and it would be much cheaper in smaller towns. In big cities too, you can get more modest accommodation for much less than that. But everything's much cheaper in India; correspondingly the salaries are lower too. As a student there I used to get around $120 a month and that was quite enough to live on comfortably (student lifestyle). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 5 1:44:53 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 01:44:49 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74FEE37B400; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 01:44:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23022; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:44:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Sender: des@ofug.org X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/tail forward.c read.c reverse.c tail References: <200012031705.eB3H5ke30393@freefall.freebsd.org> <20001204202406.A64100@lucifer.bart.nl> <20001204122458.A46610@dragon.nuxi.com> <20001205080954.A73404@daemon.ninth-circle.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 05 Dec 2000 10:44:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven's message of "Tue, 5 Dec 2000 08:09:54 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven writes: > My most common consulted mentors are Eivind, Mark, Poul-Henning and > Soeren. I am quite positive that these people belong, in my opinion, to > the so-called Grey Beards. Eivind would be a Blond Beard, and Poul-Henning definitely a Red Beard. I don't know about Søren, though. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 5 15:12:33 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 15:12:31 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 019AD37B400 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 15:12:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from dmlb.org ([62.253.135.85]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001205231228.DWVE5045.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@dmlb.org> for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 23:12:28 +0000 Received: from dmlb by dmlb.org with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 143RGK-0000Tq-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2000 23:12:40 +0000 Content-Length: 783 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 23:12:40 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Can anyone recommend a "stable" version of Netscape? I've been trying to find which one out of 4.08 4.63 4.73 doesn't crash (itself and X11 and then the machine) when surfing. To no avail. So, what version is best for not taking out the rest of the machine? computer$ uname -a FreeBSD computer.my.domain 3.3-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE #8: Sun Nov 26 22:47: 26 GMT 2000 dmlb@computer.my.domain:/usr/src/sys/compile/COMPUTER i386 And, yeah I should move to 4.x sometime. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@dmlb.org | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 5 17:19:12 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 17:19:09 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sj-msg-core-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.163.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98CA137B401 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:19:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mira1.cisco.com (mira1.cisco.com [171.71.208.193]) by sj-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA20008; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:19:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from cisco.com (ptlm1-dhcp-254.cisco.com [171.71.210.254]) by mira1.cisco.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AAR20339; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:19:08 -0800 (PST) Sender: gehicks@cisco.com Message-ID: <3A2D92AB.9892A82B@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 01:13:15 +0000 From: W Gerald Hicks Organization: Cisco Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.1-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Jeremy Cc: Thomas David Rivers , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: lint References: <20001205111025.I22946@moose.bri.hp.com> <200012051217.HAA56851@lakes.dignus.com> <20001206101008.C95349@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [to -chat] Peter Jeremy wrote: > > > As to original AT&T compilers; I recently discovered that Plan9 is > > now "open source" (I haven't looked at the license myself) so it may > > provide compile sources It does, looks very interesting too. License doesn't seem to be as restrictive as GPL (to me, IANAL, etc). > > I would expect it to be self-contained (ie include the compiler), but > I haven't checked. I do recall from an early talk on it by Rob Pike > that a fair amount of effort went into speeding up the C compiler > (though I don't know about the code quality). (I'm also a bit > uncertain of the degree of open-ness of the license). The compiler suite appears to be pretty close to C9X and with a fair investment of effort could be promising. It doesn't do Elf output, etc... I ported a simple plan9 archive extractor to FreeBSD some time ago to facilitate those wishing to tour the Plan9 sources. /usr/ports/archivers/9e Cheers, Jerry Hicks gehicks@cisco.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 5 18:32:24 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 18:32:22 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from jasper.nighttide.net (jasper.nighttide.net [216.227.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4651737B400 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (darren@localhost) by jasper.nighttide.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eB62Vx703369; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:32:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:31:59 -0500 (EST) From: Darren Henderson Sender: To: Duncan Barclay Cc: Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > Can anyone recommend a "stable" version of Netscape? I've been missing that nice 3.x release I had before I upgraded this box from 2.2.8S to 4.2S. ______________________________________________________________________ Darren Henderson darren@nighttide.net Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 5 20: 8: 4 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 20:08:03 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost01.reflexnet.net (mailhost01.reflexnet.net [64.6.192.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25DF437B400 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:08:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com ([64.6.211.149]) by mailhost01.reflexnet.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:06:23 -0800 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB647rg60279; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:07:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:07:53 -0800 From: "Crist J . Clark" To: Duncan Barclay Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall Message-ID: <20001205200753.E99903@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from dmlb@dmlb.org on Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 11:12:40PM -0000 Sender: cjc@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 11:12:40PM -0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > Hi > > Can anyone recommend a "stable" version of Netscape? > > I've been trying to find which one out of > 4.08 > 4.63 > 4.73 > doesn't crash (itself and X11 and then the machine) when surfing. To no avail. > > So, what version is best for not taking out the rest of the machine? > > computer$ uname -a > FreeBSD computer.my.domain 3.3-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE #8: Sun Nov 26 22:47: > 26 GMT 2000 dmlb@computer.my.domain:/usr/src/sys/compile/COMPUTER i386 > > And, yeah I should move to 4.x sometime. Any version with Java disabled is fairly stable for me. I has never taken out my machine ever. It has been known to lock the focus on itself and become unresponsive making X useless. But I Ctrl-Alt-F to a vty and kill netscape from there and all is OK when I go back to X. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 5 21:25: 7 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 21:24:58 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (etrn.iconz.co.nz [210.48.22.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A46837B69C; Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:24:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from creativejuice.co.nz (ip-210-48-60-242.iconz.net.nz [210.48.60.242] (may be forged)) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA043700976080139; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:22:19 +1300 (NZDT) From: tom@aba.com Message-Id: <200012060522.SAA043700976080139@mail.iconz.co.nz> Received: from [62.159.146.73] by [192.168.1.2] with SMTP (QuickMail Pro Server for Mac 2.0.1); 06-Dec-2000 18:23:08 +1300 To: Subject: Search Engine Optimization Kit-2001 24123 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 00:16:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Errors-To: X-Mailer: Outlook Express X-Originating-IP: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 0:49:39 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 00:49:25 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost01.reflexnet.net (mailhost01.reflexnet.net [64.6.192.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ABAB37B400 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 00:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com ([64.6.211.149]) by mailhost01.reflexnet.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 6 Dec 2000 00:47:51 -0800 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB68nGb62649 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 00:49:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 00:49:15 -0800 From: "Crist J . Clark" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: [marca@chem2.harvard.edu: mini-AIR Dec 2000 - Blow Your Coat, Truth, Beauty, Gas] Message-ID: <20001206004915.J99903@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: cjc@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The AIR show is going to be at USC Berkeley. I thought that since a lot of the people on this list are in that area and some may have interest in this type of silliness that I would take the first line of their text to heart. ----- Forwarded message from Marc Abrahams ----- Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:58:09 -0500 (EST) Errors-To: marca@chem2.harvard.edu Reply-To: mini-air@chem.harvard.edu Originator: mini-air@air.harvard.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Abrahams To: Multiple recipients of list MINI-AIR Subject: mini-AIR Dec 2000 - Blow Your Coat, Truth, Beauty, Gas X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-UIDL: e82bcf4edb19a79b086e2f05072f69f3 PLEASE FORWARD/POST AS APPROPRIATE ================================================================ mini-Annals of Improbable Research ("mini-AIR") Issue Number 2000-12 December, 2000 ISSN 1076-500X Key words: improbable research, science humor, Ig Nobel, AIR, the ---------------------------------------------------------------- A free newsletter of tidbits too tiny to fit in the Annals of Improbable Research (AIR), the journal of inflated research and personalities ================================================================ ----------------------------- 2000-12-01 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2000-12-01 Table of Contents 2000-12-02 mini Housekeeping 2000-12-03 What's New in the Magazine 2000-12-04 Good Coffee Survey 2000-12-05 International Gas Experiment 2000-12-06 Project Blow-Your-Coat 2000-12-07 Coat-Blowing in the USA 2000-12-08 Sentence of Death: Scolasticism 2000-12-09 The Truth About Beauty 2000-12-10 The Young Turk: a Detective Story 2000-12-11 The Y2K Nostalgia Club 2000-12-12 Cavalcade of HotAIR: Bare Skin, $$, Peruvian Truckers 2000-12-13 Project AIRhead 2000: Beast, Fan, Ball 2000-12-14 Postal Frights 2000-12-15 MAY WE RECOMMEND: Holiday Research 2000-12-16 AIRhead Events 2000-12-17 How to Subscribe to AIR (*) 2000-12-18 Our Address (*) 2000-12-19 Please Forward/Post This Issue! (*) 2000-12-20 How to Receive mini-AIR, etc. (*) Items marked (*) are reprinted in every issue. mini-AIR is a free monthly *e-supplement* to AIR, the print magazine ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-02 mini Housekeeping 1. AIR show at UC BERKELEY on SUNDAY, DEC. 10 (See section 2000- 12-16 below.) Spread the word. 2. IG ON RADIO -- The annual National Public Radio broadcast of the (recorded, edited) Ig Nobel Ceremony was postponed due to the NPR radio coverage of US election news. It is tentatively scheduled for the final Friday in December. Info will be posted at and at ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-03 What's New in the Magazine AIR 6:6 (Nov/Dec 2000) is the special ECCENTRICS issue. Special versions of many of the articles will be cropping up on the AIR web site during the next few weeks. A sampling of the article titles: <> "Edward D. Cope, Heads Above the Rest, the First Electronic Publisher in Science," by Earle E. Spamer <> "The Gentle Art of Political Taxidermy: Charles Waterton, Squire of Walton Hall," by Sally Shelton <> "Chonosuke Okamura, Visionary," by Earle E. Spamer <> "A Fundamentally Eccentric Premise," by L.X. Finegold <> "Eccentric Research Recommendations," by Stephen Drew <> "Frank "Bring 'Em Back Alive and Ready to Eat" Buckland," by Sally Shelton <> "Decoding the British ack-SEN-triks Movement: A Phonemological Analysis," by Harold P. Dowd <> "ASK SYMMETRA: Unbearably Stacked," by Scientist/supermodel Symmetra See the cover and full table of contents, and several of the articles posted any day now at (What you are reading at this moment is mini-AIR, a monthly e-mail small supplement to the print magazine.) ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-04 Good Coffee Survey It is time, once again, to choose and settle a burning or boiling scientific controversy. This month's choice is of the boiling, rather than burning, variety. Scientific correctness survey #402 asks: Scientifically speaking, what makes a good cup of coffee? If you have a rich, full-bodied, perfectly brewed answer, please send it (in CONCISE form!) to COFFEE SURVEY, c/o ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-05 International Gas Experiment Investigator Philip Miller Tate of Kingston University in the UK, has proposed a novel experiment in international inflammation. In his words: As a chemistry lecturer with an interest in the environment, I propose the following public survey: I am curiously interested in the accuracy of the assertion made by French President Chirac recently, that "Each American produces three times as much greenhouse gases as a Frenchman". Is he correct, or has he just been eating too much French beef? Please participate in our survey by answering the following two questions: 1. Is President Chirac correct about the gassiness of the average American? (YES/NO) 2. Will Dr. Philip Miller Tate succeed in creating an international gas-fired conflagration? (YES/NO) Please send your answers to GASSY INCIDENT SURVEY, c/o ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-06 Project Blow-Your-Coat Please join us in carrying out Project Blow-Your-Coat. The goal is to introduce into wide circulation the evocative scientifical phrase "blow your coat." The phrase described a phenomenon observed in chinchillas. When startled, they sometimes shed their fur. Veterinarians call this "blowing the coat." The phrase can be applied, at least in a metaphorical way, to humans -- thus the inception of Project Blow- Your-Coat. RECOMMENDED USAGE: as a folksy, yet precise way of urging someone to relax rather than to act startled, or to suggest that someone has overreacted. EXAMPLE #1: "Don't blow your coat, man." EXAMPLE #2: "When Professor Sigerson saw the bill, she totally blew her coat." INCENTIVE BONUS: After you succeed in getting even one person to habitually use the phrase "blow your coat," you will be authorized by the Blow-Your-Coat Foundation to affix the Blow family coat of arms to the arm of your coat. You can see the Blow coat of arms at ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-07 Coat-Blowing in the USA Seven (7, a number that has been confirmed by machine re-count) mini-AIR readers blew their coats after reading last month's salute to mathematics teacher K. Harris. Three of these readers demanded that we "do something." Here is the something -- an omni-partisan, internationally inflammatory statement. Like last month's salute, this statement may be useful to mathematics and statistics teachers. Though superficially about the recent Florida singularity, it can be applied to the sordidly amusing clash of any political parties in any close election anywhere: * * * INFLAMMATORY 3-PART PARTISAN STATEMENT: 1) When it was clear that the Florida vote was a virtual tie -- and before ANYONE knew which way the initial count would go -- we predicted that WHOEVER came out ahead in the initial count would try everything under the sun to prevent a careful recount, and that both sides would twist the mathematics beyond recognition. 2) The prediction was entirely accurate. Slap a minus sign on the initial difference and you would have seen exactly the same exaggerated -- and in many cases delightfully loopy -- "arguments" coming out of exactly the opposite sets of mouths. 3) Upset by the result of any election that was too close to measure with certainty? Don't blow your coat. Sit back and drink in the show of clever people on both sides doing their darndest to mangle the mathematics. It is a cogno-intellectual spectacle worth savoring. * * * ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-08 Sentence of Death: Scolasticism Our SENTENCE OF DEATH Contest is alive and well, and back after a long absence. This month's entry was shipped here by investigator Alistair McCulloch: The scolasticism (sic) of the great corpus of European philosophy must be de-escalated in favour of transparency of ideas that allow for the participation of the average intellect in the substance of the discourse as an adjunct to action in the everyday world. -- Adrian Atkinson, Principles of Political Ecology, 1991, Belhaven Press, London, p.44. Investigator McCullogh gamely offers this attempt at interpretation: I think what the author is calling for is for writers to keep what they are saying simple so that the average person in the street can understand....but I'm not really sure... ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-09 The Truth About Beauty Here are ugly results of Scientific Survey #406. It concerned the conjecture by the poet John Keats that: "Beauty is truth, truth beauty ..." The survey asked: Do you (a) agree or (b) disagree? At also asked: If you disagree, then what is beauty if not truth? Or what is truth if not beauty? Here are the results: 32% AGREE 58% DISAGREE 07% BOTH 03% NO The responses were, in truth, not very beautiful. We present only one of them. It demonstrates, if nothing else, that truth can be stunning: "My sister-in-law is a beautiful woman, but she is so false that I do not believe Keats was right." --Pietro Cavalli ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-10 The Young Turk: a Detective Story Investigators H. Zaman and Bruce Goatly each sent us the same citation: "Structural and Functional Aspects of Papain-Like Cysteine Proteinases And Their Protein Inhibitors," B. Turk, V. Turk, and D. Turk, Biological Chemistry, vol. 378, nos. 3-4, March-April 1997, pp. 141-50. Zamand and Goatly both raise the same question: Which is the young Turk? The authors are at the J. Stefan Institute, Ljubljana, Slovenia. If you happen to KNOW which is the young Turk, or if you have done the requisite detective work and thusly KNOW which it is, please let us know. ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-11 The Y2K Nostalgia Club We've been receiving letters from people who miss the excitement of the Y2K watch. Many sufferers ask that we form a support group. We might be willing to do that, if we understood what it is we'd be supporting, or even why, let alone how. In the meantime, rest assured, Y2K nostalgia sufferers, that you would have our sympathy if we had any. ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-12 Cavalcade of HotAIR: Bare Skin, $$, Peruvian Truckers Here are concise, incomplete, flighty mentions of some of the features we've posted on HotAIR since last month's mini-AIR came out. You can get to all of them by clicking on "WHAT'S NEW" at the web site, or by going to: AIRHEAD TECH NOTES:, a curious missive we received, which seems to claim that, just maybe, Water Prevents Dehydration. RESEARCH QUESTION -- Cold Bodies, An Inquiry into Human Physiology (with lurid photos) STATISTICS LESSON -- Fat, Money, Correlation, Causality MAY WE RECOMMEND -- Several of the citations that first appeared in the "AIRhead Research Review" and "AIRhead Medical Review" columns of the AIR, such as: <> "Machismo in Motion: The Ethos of Peruvian Truckers" <> "We All Make Mistakes"" <> "Heterosis and Hybrid Performance in Topless Faba Beans" <> "Pseudostupidity: a Study in Masochistic Exhibitionism" POSTAL EXPERIMENTS -- Jeff Van Bueren's landmark paper, originally published in AIR 6:4, and now posted on the AIR web site as a public service THESE, AND MORE, ARE ON HOTAIR AT ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-13 Project AIRhead 2000: Beast, Fan, Ball ITEM 49491 (submitted by investigator Pete Kaiser) STEEL DRAGON 2000, claimed to be the world's biggest, fastest, and longest roller coaster, located in the Nagashima Spaland amusement park in Japan. ITEM 6833 (submitted by investigator Ron Josephson) WhisperWind 2000, a ceiling fan made by Hunter. ITEM 52833 (submitted by Rodney Ray) TOP FLITE 2000 XL, a golf ball. ---------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-14 Postal Frights The US Postal Service (USPS) has announced that it is about to announce higher postage rates for periodicals. Possibly this is USPS's reaction to the aforementioned landmark article "Postal Experiments," which was published in AIR vol. 6, no. 4. In case you missed that article, we have now posted it on the AIR web site, at Most likely, the postal increase will be substantial, and if so we will need to raise, at least slightly, the cost of a subscription to AIR. This frightening fact may be as good an excuse as any for you to at last treat yourself to a subscription to the magnificent magazine, the Annals of Improbable Research. (For details, see Section 2000-12-17 below) ----------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-15 MAY WE RECOMMEND: Holiday Research Here are further selections from our vast collection of items that inexplicably have 2000 as part of their name. RAMADAN RESEARCH "Irritability During the Month of Ramadan," N. Kadri, A. Tilane, M. El Batal, Y. Taltit, S.M. Tahiri, and D. Moussaoui, Psychosomatic Medicine, vol. 62, no. 2, March-April 2000, pp. 280- 5. (Thanks to F. Harper for bringing this to our attention.) The authors explain their work: We hypothesized that people in Morocco are more irritable during the month of Ramadan than during the rest of the year.... RESULTS: Irritability was significantly higher in smokers than in nonsmokers before the beginning of Ramadan. It was higher in both groups during the Ramadan month. Irritability increased continuously during Ramadan and reached its peak at the end of the month. CHRISTMAS RESEARCH "Eye Damage from Christmas Trees," D.J. Brazier, Lancet, vol. 2, no. 8415, December 8, 1984, p. 1335. (Thanks to Reto Schneider for bringing this to our attention.) HANUKKAH RESEARCH "Jewish Holiday Hazards," G. Solomon, Journal of Family Practice, vol. 42, no. 1, January 1996, p. 84. (Thanks to Paulina Trefill for bringing this to our attention.) ------------------------------------------------------------ 2000-12-16 AIRhead Events ==> For details and updates see ==> Want to host an event? 617-491-4437. UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY SUN, DEC 10 7:00 PM, Valley Life Sciences Building AIR Editor Marc Abrahams will present the latest on improbable research and the Ig Nobel Prizes. Event sponsored by National Center for Science Education and the Bay Area Skeptics. INFO: Eugenie Scott 510-526-1674 INTERNATIONAL ELECTRON DEVICES MEETING, SAN FRANCISCO TUES, DEC 12 AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS will ruin lunch by discussing the Ig Nobel Prizes and the current state of improbable research. INFO: Mark Law (352) 392-6459 ANNUAL IG NOBEL BROADCAST, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO DATE TBA *** The broadcast was originally scheduled for Nov 24 -- *** However, it was pre-empted by NPR news coverage of *** the US national election *** When we know the revised schedule, we will *** post it here. Broadcast of recording of the 2000 Ig Nobel Prize Ceremony, on NPR's "Science Friday with Ira Flatow" program. INFO: MCGILL UNIV., MONTREAL TBA Date, time, etc. TBA ROCHESTER (NY) MUSEUM & SCIENCE CENTER WED, JAN 24, 2001 7:30 pm. AIR Editor MARC ABRAHAMS will present the latest on "Improbable Research, the Ig Nobel Prizes, and Aha!-Ha-Ha Moments in Science." INFO: Paul Porell 716-271-4552 x 363 STANFORD UNIVERSITY WED, FEB 14, 2001 Valentine's Day improbable research gala with: <> AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS <> "How to Quantify Failure" author MARTIN J. MURPHY <> "UFOs & Internal Combustion Engines" author SCOTT SANDFORD <> "Postal Experiments" author JEFF VAN BUEREN <> "Structured Procrastination" author JOHN PERRY <> and other surpris(ing) personages Further details TBA. INFO: Michele Armstrong AAAS ANNUAL MEETING, SAN FRANCISCO FRI, FEB 16, 2001 Details TBA. AIR's annual session as part of the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Participants will include: <> AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS <> "How to Quantify Failure" author MARTIN J. MURPHY <> "UFOs & Internal Combustion Engines" author SCOTT SANDFORD <> "Postal Experiments" author JEFF VAN BUEREN <> "Structured Procrastination" author JOHN PERRY <> and other surpris(ing) personages Further details TBA. SAS/ACS SPECIAL JOINT MEETING, PRINCETON, NJ DATE TBA WEIZMANN INSTITUTE, ISRAEL WEEK OF MAY 13-18, 2001 Details TBA. HEBREW UNIVERSITY OF JERUSALEM MAY 2001 Tentatively scheduled. Details TBA. 11th FIRST ANNUAL IG NOBEL PRIZE CEREMONY THURS, OCT 4, 2001 Sanders Theatre, Harvard University -------------------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-17 How to Subscribe to AIR (*) Here's how to subscribe to the magnificent bi-monthly print journal The Annals of Improbable Research (the real thing, not just the little bits of overflow material you have been reading here in mini-AIR). ............................................................... Name: Address: Address: City and State: Zip or postal code: Country Phone: FAX: E-mail: ............................................................... SUBSCRIPTIONS (6 issues per year): USA 1 yr/$23 2 yrs/$39 Canada/Mexico 1 yr/$27 US 2 yrs/$45 US Overseas 1 yr/$40 US 2 yrs/$70 US ............................................................... BACK ISSUES are available, too: First issue: $8 USA, $11 Canada/Mex, $16 overseas Add'l issues purchased at same time: $6 each ............................................................... Send payment (US bank check, or international money order, or Visa, Mastercard or Discover info) to: Annals of Improbable Research (AIR) PO Box 380853, Cambridge, MA 02238 USA 617-491-4437 FAX:617-661-0927 ----------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-18 Our Address (*) Annals of Improbable Research (AIR) PO Box 380853, Cambridge, MA 02238 USA 617-491-4437 FAX:617-661-0927 EDITORIAL: marca@chem2.harvard.edu SUBSCRIPTIONS: air@improbable.com WEB SITE: --------------------------- 2000-12-19 Please Forward/Post This Issue! (*) Please distribute copies of mini-AIR (or excerpts!) wherever appropriate. The only limitations are: A) Please indicate that the material comes from mini-AIR. B) You may NOT distribute mini-AIR for commercial purposes. ------------- mini-AIRheads ------------- EDITOR: Marc Abrahams (marca@chem2.harvard.edu) MINI-PROOFREADER AND PICKER OF NITS (before we introduce the last few at the last moment): Wendy Mattson WWW EDITOR/GLOBAL VILLAGE IDIOT: Amy Gorin (airmaster@improbable.com) COMMUTATIVE EDITOR: Stanley Eigen (eigen@neu.edu) ASSOCIATIVE EDITOR: Mark Dionne DISTRIBUTIVE EDITOR: Robin Pearce CO-CONSPIRATORS: Gary Dryfoos, Ernest Ersatz, Craig Haggart, Nicki Rohloff MAITRE DE COMPUTATION: Jerry Lotto AUTHORITY FIGURES: Nobel Laureates Dudley Herschbach, Sheldon Glashow, William Lipscomb, Richard Roberts (c) copyright 2000, Annals of Improbable Research ----------------------------------------------------- 2000-12-20 How to Receive mini-AIR, etc. (*) What you are reading right now is mini-AIR. Mini-AIR is a (free!) tiny monthly *supplement* to the bi-monthly print magazine. To subscribe, send a brief E-mail message to: LISTPROC@AIR.HARVARD.EDU The body of your message should contain ONLY the words SUBSCRIBE MINI-AIR MARIE CURIE (You may substitute your own name for that of Madame Curie.) ---------------------------- To stop subscribing, send the following message: SIGNOFF MINI-AIR ============================================================ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 9:40: 3 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 09:39:59 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 834E337B400 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 09:39:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19321; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:39:40 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001206103746.043e85b0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:39:29 -0700 To: Duncan Barclay , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:12 PM 12/5/2000, Duncan Barclay wrote: >Can anyone recommend a "stable" version of Netscape? You mean there IS one? I'm especially annoyed that hitting Shift- locks it up solid. You might want to try Opera, and also join in the chorus of people asking for a native FreeBSD version. (Right now, they are compiling for Linux, alas.) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 11:55: 9 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 11:55:06 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from superconductor.rush.net (superconductor.rush.net [208.9.155.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C61237B400; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:55:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (trish@localhost) by superconductor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19735; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 14:54:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 14:54:53 -0500 (EST) From: Siobhan Patricia Lynch X-Sender: trish@superconductor.rush.net To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: NEABUG Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We are now starting to organize NEABUG (New England Area BSD User Group) Hopefully, this one will be much better organized and able to stand on its own feet without Trish this time =) Anyway, anyone interested in lending a helping hand, please email me, and I'll plan a planning meeting somewhere near Boston. trish@bsdunix.net -Trish PS, there should be a prelimiary website up soon... I'll post to -chat with that information. __ Trish Lynch FreeBSD - The Power to Serve trish@bsdunix.net Rush Networking trish@rush.net VA Linux Systems trish@valinux.com O|S|D|N trish@osdn.com --- "Angels and demons dancing in my head Lunatics and monsters underneath my bed Media messiahs preying on my fears Pop culture prophets playing in my ears" -Rush, Totem To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 12:56:26 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 12:56:22 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3113037B402; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 12:56:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA569186; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:56:09 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:56:07 -0500 To: Siobhan Patricia Lynch , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: NEABUG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 2:54 PM -0500 12/6/00, Siobhan Patricia Lynch wrote: >We are now starting to organize NEABUG > (New England Area BSD User Group) > >Hopefully, this one will be much better organized and able to >stand on its own feet without Trish this time =) > >Anyway, anyone interested in lending a helping hand, please >email me, and I'll plan a planning meeting somewhere near >Boston. > >PS, there should be a prelimiary website up soon... I'll post > to -chat with that information. please post to -advocacy too. If the web site is interesting enough, it should merit more than just a mention in -chat! :-) (besides, I'm trying to avoid joining -chat, as I'm already on too many busy mailing lists...) -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 14:59:24 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 14:59:10 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from inconnu.isu.edu (unknown [134.50.8.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A2637B400 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 14:59:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (galt@localhost) by inconnu.isu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31778; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:59:07 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:59:06 -0700 (MST) From: John Galt To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [marca@chem2.harvard.edu: mini-AIR Dec 2000 - Blow Your Coat, Truth, Beauty, Gas] In-Reply-To: <20001206004915.J99903@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I thought JIR (When did they change?) was based in your neck of the woods--Cambridge... On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Crist J . Clark wrote: > The AIR show is going to be at USC Berkeley. I thought that since a > lot of the people on this list are in that area and some may have > interest in this type of silliness that I would take the first line of > their text to heart. > > ----- Forwarded message from Marc Abrahams ----- > > Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:58:09 -0500 (EST) > Errors-To: marca@chem2.harvard.edu > Reply-To: mini-air@chem.harvard.edu > Originator: mini-air@air.harvard.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Marc Abrahams > To: Multiple recipients of list MINI-AIR > Subject: mini-AIR Dec 2000 - Blow Your Coat, Truth, Beauty, Gas > X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > X-UIDL: e82bcf4edb19a79b086e2f05072f69f3 > > > PLEASE FORWARD/POST AS APPROPRIATE > ================================================================ > mini-Annals of Improbable Research ("mini-AIR") > Issue Number 2000-12 > December, 2000 > ISSN 1076-500X > Key words: improbable research, science humor, Ig Nobel, AIR, the > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > A free newsletter of tidbits too tiny to fit in the > Annals of Improbable Research (AIR), > the journal of inflated research and personalities > ================================================================ > > ----------------------------- > 2000-12-01 TABLE OF CONTENTS > > 2000-12-01 Table of Contents > 2000-12-02 mini Housekeeping > 2000-12-03 What's New in the Magazine > 2000-12-04 Good Coffee Survey > 2000-12-05 International Gas Experiment > 2000-12-06 Project Blow-Your-Coat > 2000-12-07 Coat-Blowing in the USA > 2000-12-08 Sentence of Death: Scolasticism > 2000-12-09 The Truth About Beauty > 2000-12-10 The Young Turk: a Detective Story > 2000-12-11 The Y2K Nostalgia Club > 2000-12-12 Cavalcade of HotAIR: Bare Skin, $$, Peruvian Truckers > 2000-12-13 Project AIRhead 2000: Beast, Fan, Ball > 2000-12-14 Postal Frights > 2000-12-15 MAY WE RECOMMEND: Holiday Research > 2000-12-16 AIRhead Events > 2000-12-17 How to Subscribe to AIR (*) > 2000-12-18 Our Address (*) > 2000-12-19 Please Forward/Post This Issue! (*) > 2000-12-20 How to Receive mini-AIR, etc. (*) > > Items marked (*) are reprinted in every issue. > > mini-AIR is > a free monthly *e-supplement* to AIR, the print magazine > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-02 mini Housekeeping > > 1. AIR show at UC BERKELEY on SUNDAY, DEC. 10 (See section 2000- > 12-16 below.) Spread the word. > > 2. IG ON RADIO -- The annual National Public Radio broadcast of > the (recorded, edited) Ig Nobel Ceremony was postponed due to the > NPR radio coverage of US election news. It is tentatively > scheduled for the final Friday in December. Info will be posted at > and at > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-03 What's New in the Magazine > > AIR 6:6 (Nov/Dec 2000) is the special ECCENTRICS issue. > > Special versions of many of the articles will be cropping up on > the AIR web site during the next few weeks. > > A sampling of the article titles: > > <> "Edward D. Cope, Heads Above the Rest, the First > Electronic Publisher in Science," by Earle E. Spamer > > <> "The Gentle Art of Political Taxidermy: Charles Waterton, > Squire of Walton Hall," by Sally Shelton > > <> "Chonosuke Okamura, Visionary," by Earle E. Spamer > > <> "A Fundamentally Eccentric Premise," by L.X. Finegold > > <> "Eccentric Research Recommendations," by Stephen Drew > > <> "Frank "Bring 'Em Back Alive and Ready to Eat" Buckland," > by Sally Shelton > > <> "Decoding the British ack-SEN-triks Movement: A > Phonemological Analysis," by Harold P. Dowd > > <> "ASK SYMMETRA: Unbearably Stacked," > by Scientist/supermodel Symmetra > > See the cover and full table of contents, and several of the > articles posted any day now at > > > (What you are reading at this moment is mini-AIR, > a monthly e-mail small supplement to the print magazine.) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-04 Good Coffee Survey > > It is time, once again, to choose and settle a burning or boiling > scientific controversy. This month's choice is of the boiling, > rather than burning, variety. Scientific correctness survey #402 > asks: > > Scientifically speaking, what makes a good cup of coffee? > > If you have a rich, full-bodied, perfectly brewed answer, please > send it (in CONCISE form!) to COFFEE SURVEY, c/o > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-05 International Gas Experiment > > Investigator Philip Miller Tate of Kingston University in the UK, > has proposed a novel experiment in international inflammation. In > his words: > > As a chemistry lecturer with an interest in the environment, > I propose the following public survey: > I am curiously interested in the accuracy of the assertion > made by French President Chirac recently, that "Each > American produces three times as much greenhouse gases > as a Frenchman". Is he correct, or has he just been eating > too much French beef? > > Please participate in our survey by answering the following two > questions: > > 1. Is President Chirac correct about the gassiness of the average > American? (YES/NO) > > 2. Will Dr. Philip Miller Tate succeed in creating an > international gas-fired conflagration? (YES/NO) > > Please send your answers to GASSY INCIDENT SURVEY, c/o > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-06 Project Blow-Your-Coat > > Please join us in carrying out Project Blow-Your-Coat. The goal is > to introduce into wide circulation the evocative scientifical > phrase "blow your coat." > > The phrase described a phenomenon observed in chinchillas. When > startled, they sometimes shed their fur. Veterinarians call this > "blowing the coat." The phrase can be applied, at least in a > metaphorical way, to humans -- thus the inception of Project Blow- > Your-Coat. > > RECOMMENDED USAGE: as a folksy, yet precise way of urging someone > to relax rather than to act startled, or to suggest that someone > has overreacted. > > EXAMPLE #1: "Don't blow your coat, man." > > EXAMPLE #2: "When Professor Sigerson saw the bill, she totally > blew her coat." > > INCENTIVE BONUS: After you succeed in getting even one person to > habitually use the phrase "blow your coat," you will be authorized > by the Blow-Your-Coat Foundation to affix the Blow family coat of > arms to the arm of your coat. You can see the Blow coat of arms at > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-07 Coat-Blowing in the USA > > Seven (7, a number that has been confirmed by machine re-count) > mini-AIR readers blew their coats after reading last month's > salute to mathematics teacher K. Harris. Three of these readers > demanded that we "do something." > > Here is the something -- an omni-partisan, internationally > inflammatory statement. Like last month's salute, this statement > may be useful to mathematics and statistics teachers. Though > superficially about the recent Florida singularity, it can be > applied to the sordidly amusing clash of any political parties in > any close election anywhere: > > * * * > INFLAMMATORY 3-PART PARTISAN STATEMENT: > > 1) When it was clear that the Florida vote was a virtual tie -- > and before ANYONE knew which way the initial count would go -- we > predicted that WHOEVER came out ahead in the initial count would > try everything under the sun to prevent a careful recount, and > that both sides would twist the mathematics beyond recognition. > > 2) The prediction was entirely accurate. Slap a minus sign on the > initial difference and you would have seen exactly the same > exaggerated -- and in many cases delightfully loopy -- "arguments" > coming out of exactly the opposite sets of mouths. > > 3) Upset by the result of any election that was too close to > measure with certainty? Don't blow your coat. Sit back and drink > in the show of clever people on both sides doing their darndest to > mangle the mathematics. It is a cogno-intellectual spectacle worth > savoring. > * * * > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-08 Sentence of Death: Scolasticism > > Our SENTENCE OF DEATH Contest is alive and well, and back after a > long absence. This month's entry was shipped here by investigator > Alistair McCulloch: > > The scolasticism (sic) of the great corpus of > European philosophy must be de-escalated in favour of > transparency of ideas that allow for the participation > of the average intellect in the substance of the discourse > as an adjunct to action in the everyday world. > -- Adrian Atkinson, Principles of Political Ecology, > 1991, Belhaven Press, London, p.44. > > Investigator McCullogh gamely offers this attempt at > interpretation: > I think what the author is calling for is for writers to > keep what they are saying simple so that the average person > in the street can understand....but I'm not really sure... > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-09 The Truth About Beauty > > Here are ugly results of Scientific Survey #406. It concerned the > conjecture by the poet John Keats that: > > "Beauty is truth, truth beauty ..." > > The survey asked: Do you (a) agree or (b) disagree? > At also asked: If you disagree, then what is beauty if not truth? > Or what is truth if not beauty? > > Here are the results: > > 32% AGREE > 58% DISAGREE > 07% BOTH > 03% NO > > The responses were, in truth, not very beautiful. We present only > one of them. It demonstrates, if nothing else, that truth can be > stunning: > > "My sister-in-law is a beautiful woman, but she is so false that > I do not believe Keats was right." > --Pietro Cavalli > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-10 The Young Turk: a Detective Story > > Investigators H. Zaman and Bruce Goatly each sent us the same > citation: > > "Structural and Functional Aspects of Papain-Like Cysteine > Proteinases And Their Protein Inhibitors," B. Turk, V. Turk, and > D. Turk, Biological Chemistry, vol. 378, nos. 3-4, March-April > 1997, pp. 141-50. > > Zamand and Goatly both raise the same question: Which is the young > Turk? The authors are at the J. Stefan Institute, Ljubljana, > Slovenia. > > If you happen to KNOW which is the young Turk, or if you have done > the requisite detective work and thusly KNOW which it is, please > let us know. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-11 The Y2K Nostalgia Club > > We've been receiving letters from people who miss the excitement > of the Y2K watch. Many sufferers ask that we form a support group. > We might be willing to do that, if we understood what it is we'd > be supporting, or even why, let alone how. In the meantime, rest > assured, Y2K nostalgia sufferers, that you would have our sympathy > if we had any. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-12 Cavalcade of HotAIR: Bare Skin, $$, Peruvian Truckers > > Here are concise, incomplete, flighty mentions of some of the > features we've posted on HotAIR since last month's mini-AIR came > out. You can get to all of them by clicking on "WHAT'S NEW" at the > web site, or by going to: > > > AIRHEAD TECH NOTES:, a curious missive we received, which seems to > claim that, just maybe, Water Prevents Dehydration. > > RESEARCH QUESTION -- Cold Bodies, An Inquiry into Human Physiology > (with lurid photos) > > STATISTICS LESSON -- Fat, Money, Correlation, Causality > > MAY WE RECOMMEND -- Several of the citations that first appeared > in the "AIRhead Research Review" and "AIRhead Medical Review" > columns of the AIR, such as: > <> "Machismo in Motion: The Ethos of Peruvian Truckers" > <> "We All Make Mistakes"" > <> "Heterosis and Hybrid Performance in Topless Faba Beans" > <> "Pseudostupidity: a Study in Masochistic Exhibitionism" > > POSTAL EXPERIMENTS -- Jeff Van Bueren's landmark paper, originally > published in AIR 6:4, and now posted on the AIR web site as a > public service > > THESE, AND MORE, ARE ON HOTAIR AT > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-13 Project AIRhead 2000: Beast, Fan, Ball > > ITEM 49491 (submitted by investigator Pete Kaiser) > STEEL DRAGON 2000, claimed to be the world's > biggest, fastest, and longest roller coaster, located in the > Nagashima Spaland amusement park in Japan. > > ITEM 6833 (submitted by investigator Ron Josephson) > WhisperWind 2000, a ceiling fan made by Hunter. > > ITEM 52833 (submitted by Rodney Ray) > TOP FLITE 2000 XL, a golf ball. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-14 Postal Frights > > The US Postal Service (USPS) has announced that it is about to > announce higher postage rates for periodicals. Possibly this is > USPS's reaction to the aforementioned landmark article "Postal > Experiments," which was published in AIR vol. 6, no. 4. > > In case you missed that article, we have now posted it on the AIR > web site, at > > > Most likely, the postal increase will be substantial, and if so we > will need to raise, at least slightly, the cost of a subscription > to AIR. This frightening fact may be as good an excuse as any for > you to at last treat yourself to a subscription to the magnificent > magazine, the Annals of Improbable Research. (For details, see > Section 2000-12-17 below) > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-15 MAY WE RECOMMEND: Holiday Research > > Here are further selections from our vast collection of items that > inexplicably have 2000 as part of their name. > > RAMADAN RESEARCH > "Irritability During the Month of Ramadan," N. Kadri, A. Tilane, > M. El Batal, Y. Taltit, S.M. Tahiri, and D. Moussaoui, > Psychosomatic Medicine, vol. 62, no. 2, March-April 2000, pp. 280- > 5. (Thanks to F. Harper for bringing this to our attention.) The > authors explain their work: > We hypothesized that people in Morocco are more irritable > during the month of Ramadan than during the rest > of the year.... RESULTS: Irritability was significantly > higher in smokers than in nonsmokers before the beginning > of Ramadan. It was higher in both groups during the Ramadan > month. Irritability increased continuously during Ramadan > and reached its peak at the end of the month. > > CHRISTMAS RESEARCH > "Eye Damage from Christmas Trees," D.J. Brazier, Lancet, vol. 2, > no. 8415, December 8, 1984, p. 1335. (Thanks to Reto Schneider for > bringing this to our attention.) > > HANUKKAH RESEARCH > "Jewish Holiday Hazards," G. Solomon, Journal of Family Practice, > vol. 42, no. 1, January 1996, p. 84. (Thanks to Paulina Trefill > for bringing this to our attention.) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > 2000-12-16 AIRhead Events > > ==> For details and updates see > ==> Want to host an event? 617-491-4437. > > UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY SUN, DEC 10 > 7:00 PM, Valley Life Sciences Building > AIR Editor Marc Abrahams will present the latest on improbable > research and the Ig Nobel Prizes. Event sponsored by National > Center for Science Education and the Bay Area Skeptics. > INFO: Eugenie Scott 510-526-1674 > > > INTERNATIONAL ELECTRON DEVICES MEETING, SAN FRANCISCO TUES, DEC 12 > AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS will ruin lunch by discussing the Ig > Nobel Prizes and the current state of improbable research. > INFO: Mark Law (352) 392-6459 > > ANNUAL IG NOBEL BROADCAST, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO DATE TBA > *** The broadcast was originally scheduled for Nov 24 -- > *** However, it was pre-empted by NPR news coverage of > *** the US national election > *** When we know the revised schedule, we will > *** post it here. > Broadcast of recording of the 2000 Ig Nobel Prize Ceremony, > on NPR's "Science Friday with Ira Flatow" program. > INFO: > > MCGILL UNIV., MONTREAL TBA > Date, time, etc. TBA > > ROCHESTER (NY) MUSEUM & SCIENCE CENTER WED, JAN 24, 2001 > 7:30 pm. AIR Editor MARC ABRAHAMS will present the latest on > "Improbable > Research, the Ig Nobel Prizes, and Aha!-Ha-Ha Moments in Science." > INFO: Paul Porell 716-271-4552 x 363 > > STANFORD UNIVERSITY WED, FEB 14, 2001 > Valentine's Day improbable research gala with: > <> AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS > <> "How to Quantify Failure" author MARTIN J. MURPHY > <> "UFOs & Internal Combustion Engines" author SCOTT SANDFORD > <> "Postal Experiments" author JEFF VAN BUEREN > <> "Structured Procrastination" author JOHN PERRY > <> and other surpris(ing) personages > Further details TBA. > INFO: Michele Armstrong > > AAAS ANNUAL MEETING, SAN FRANCISCO FRI, FEB 16, 2001 > Details TBA. AIR's annual session as part of the annual meeting of > the American Association for the Advancement of Science. > Participants will include: > <> AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS > <> "How to Quantify Failure" author MARTIN J. MURPHY > <> "UFOs & Internal Combustion Engines" author SCOTT SANDFORD > <> "Postal Experiments" author JEFF VAN BUEREN > <> "Structured Procrastination" author JOHN PERRY > <> and other surpris(ing) personages > Further details TBA. > > SAS/ACS SPECIAL JOINT MEETING, PRINCETON, NJ DATE TBA > > WEIZMANN INSTITUTE, ISRAEL WEEK OF MAY 13-18, 2001 > Details TBA. > > HEBREW UNIVERSITY OF JERUSALEM MAY 2001 > Tentatively scheduled. Details TBA. > > 11th FIRST ANNUAL IG NOBEL PRIZE CEREMONY THURS, OCT 4, 2001 > Sanders Theatre, Harvard University > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-17 How to Subscribe to AIR (*) > > Here's how to subscribe to the magnificent bi-monthly print > journal The Annals of Improbable Research (the real thing, not > just the little bits of overflow material you have been reading > here in mini-AIR). > ............................................................... > Name: > Address: > Address: > City and State: > Zip or postal code: > Country > Phone: FAX: E-mail: > ............................................................... > SUBSCRIPTIONS (6 issues per year): > USA 1 yr/$23 2 yrs/$39 > Canada/Mexico 1 yr/$27 US 2 yrs/$45 US > Overseas 1 yr/$40 US 2 yrs/$70 US > ............................................................... > BACK ISSUES are available, too: > First issue: $8 USA, $11 Canada/Mex, $16 overseas Add'l issues > purchased at same time: $6 each > ............................................................... > Send payment (US bank check, or international money order, or > Visa, Mastercard or Discover info) to: > Annals of Improbable Research (AIR) > PO Box 380853, Cambridge, MA 02238 USA > 617-491-4437 FAX:617-661-0927 > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-18 Our Address (*) > > Annals of Improbable Research (AIR) > PO Box 380853, Cambridge, MA 02238 USA > 617-491-4437 FAX:617-661-0927 > > EDITORIAL: marca@chem2.harvard.edu > SUBSCRIPTIONS: air@improbable.com > WEB SITE: > > > --------------------------- > 2000-12-19 Please Forward/Post This Issue! (*) > > Please distribute copies of mini-AIR (or excerpts!) wherever > appropriate. The only limitations are: A) Please indicate that the > material comes from mini-AIR. B) You may NOT distribute mini-AIR > for commercial purposes. > > ------------- mini-AIRheads ------------- > EDITOR: Marc Abrahams (marca@chem2.harvard.edu) > MINI-PROOFREADER AND PICKER OF NITS (before we introduce the last > few at the last moment): Wendy Mattson > WWW EDITOR/GLOBAL VILLAGE IDIOT: Amy Gorin > (airmaster@improbable.com) > COMMUTATIVE EDITOR: Stanley Eigen (eigen@neu.edu) > ASSOCIATIVE EDITOR: Mark Dionne > DISTRIBUTIVE EDITOR: Robin Pearce > CO-CONSPIRATORS: Gary Dryfoos, Ernest Ersatz, Craig Haggart, Nicki > Rohloff > MAITRE DE COMPUTATION: Jerry Lotto > AUTHORITY FIGURES: Nobel Laureates Dudley Herschbach, Sheldon > Glashow, William Lipscomb, Richard Roberts > > (c) copyright 2000, Annals of Improbable Research > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > 2000-12-20 How to Receive mini-AIR, etc. (*) > > What you are reading right now is mini-AIR. Mini-AIR is a (free!) > tiny monthly *supplement* to the bi-monthly print magazine. > To subscribe, send a brief E-mail message to: > LISTPROC@AIR.HARVARD.EDU > The body of your message should contain ONLY the words > SUBSCRIBE MINI-AIR MARIE CURIE > (You may substitute your own name for that of Madame Curie.) > ---------------------------- > To stop subscribing, send the following message: SIGNOFF MINI-AIR > > > ============================================================ > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- Pardon me, but you have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a damn. email galt@inconnu.isu.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 17:31:20 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 17:31:19 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pioneernet.net (pop3.pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C378A37B400 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:31:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from wiegand.org [208.194.173.26] by pioneernet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id ACE6153500C2; Wed, 06 Dec 2000 17:50:30 -0800 Sender: chip@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <3A2EE94F.AF592D18@wiegand.org> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 17:35:11 -0800 From: chip X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: off topic in chat? Search Engines question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have been asked to put some new meta keywords on a web site I made, and the client wants to use almost 30. I have tried to explain to them that is probably too many. I have emailed several search engine admins asking them what they consider an appropriate amount, or max number of keywords in the meta tags. What are the opinions of the people on this list of this topic? -- Chip W. www.wiegand.org Alternative Operating Systems To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 18: 6:40 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 18:06:39 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1967237B401 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB726VF15765; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:06:31 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:06:31 -0800 From: Brooks Davis To: chip Cc: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: off topic in chat? Search Engines question Message-ID: <20001206180631.A15059@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <3A2EE94F.AF592D18@wiegand.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3A2EE94F.AF592D18@wiegand.org>; from chip@wiegand.org on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 05:35:11PM -0800 Sender: brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 05:35:11PM -0800, chip wrote: > I have been asked to put some new meta keywords on a web > site I made, and the client wants to use almost 30. I have > tried to explain to them that is probably too many. > I have emailed several search engine admins asking them > what they consider an appropriate amount, or max number of > keywords in the meta tags. > What are the opinions of the people on this list of this topic? Meta tags may well be dead. Google doesn't use them because they are basicaly useless (99.999% of sites with META keywords just make them up to get hits.) I suspect other search engines will be moving in the same direction since everyone is moving towards a model more like google's then like early search engines. -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 18:21:35 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 18:21:32 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pioneernet.net (pop3.pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3245837B402 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:21:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from wiegand.org [208.194.173.26] by pioneernet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id A8ADBCC00D8; Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:40:45 -0800 Sender: chip@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <3A2EF510.C13E05F9@wiegand.org> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 18:25:20 -0800 From: chip X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: off topic in chat? Search Engines question References: <3A2EE94F.AF592D18@wiegand.org> <20001206180631.A15059@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brooks Davis wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 05:35:11PM -0800, chip wrote: > > I have been asked to put some new meta keywords on a web > > site I made, and the client wants to use almost 30. I have > > tried to explain to them that is probably too many. > > I have emailed several search engine admins asking them > > what they consider an appropriate amount, or max number of > > keywords in the meta tags. > > What are the opinions of the people on this list of this topic? > > Meta tags may well be dead. Google doesn't use them because they are > basicaly useless (99.999% of sites with META keywords just make them up > to get hits.) I suspect other search engines will be moving in the > same direction since everyone is moving towards a model more like > google's then like early search engines. Yep, I noticed several of the more popular one's now use a popularity rating, the more hits a site get the higher it shows up in the search results. At least two make you pay (bid) on keywords in their index, the more you bid the higher your page shows up in the results. Can't say I much like that one. I prefer the ones that look at the text of the page and pull the search results from the what it finds in the title, description, and maybe first few lines of the body. But this would hurt the sites that use lots of flash and other 'multimedia' pages. Oh, well. I don't like that stuff anyway, that's what the tv is for, not the internet (or should I say web?) -- Chip > -- Brooks > > -- > Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. -- Chip W. www.wiegand.org Alternative Operating Systems To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 19:20:47 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 19:20:45 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726F337B400 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 19:20:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from bonsai.knology.net (user-24-214-88-8.knology.net [24.214.88.8]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eB73Kh011810 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:20:43 -0600 (CST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by bonsai.knology.net (8.11.1/8.9.3) id eB73Kg367891 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:20:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from steve) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:20:41 -0600 From: Steve Price To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: calling all mutt users Message-ID: <20001206212041.G27156@bonsai.knology.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386 Sender: steve@hiwaay.net Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm looking to change my mutt color scheme and was wondering if anyone had a neat setup that they'd like to share. My current one has too many bright colors for my black background, green foreground taste. -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 20:57:45 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 20:57:42 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E48737B401 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:57:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id eB74vJ329956; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:27:19 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:27:19 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Steve Price Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: calling all mutt users Message-ID: <20001207152719.Y27667@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20001206212041.G27156@bonsai.knology.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001206212041.G27156@bonsai.knology.net>; from sprice@hiwaay.net on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:20:41PM -0600 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: grog@wantadilla.lemis.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 6 December 2000 at 21:20:41 -0600, Steve Price wrote: > I'm looking to change my mutt color scheme and was wondering if > anyone had a neat setup that they'd like to share. My current > one has too many bright colors for my black background, green > foreground taste. I have the following in my .muttrc: color hdrdefault brightblack white color quoted brightblack white color signature red white color indicator white blue color error brightred white color status black yellow color tilde black white color message red white color attachment magenta white color search black green # how to hilite search patterns in the pager color header brightblue white ^(From): color header red white ^(To): color header red white ^([Cc]c): color header magenta white ^(Subject): color body red white "(ftp|http)://[^ >,]+[^]) >,.]" # point out URLs color body red white [-a-z_0-9.]+@[-a-z_0-9.]+ # e-mail addresses color underline blue white color normal black white color index blue white FreeBSD color index red white vinum color index brightblue white auug color index magenta white "cvs commit:" color index brightblack white linuxcare color index brightgreen black pups color index black yellow Lehey color index black yellow lehey The second section are obviously individual, but they make it easier for me to spot things of interest to me. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 22:47:26 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 22:47:24 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D405937B400 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:47:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 80573239A42; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:47:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:47:24 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Steve Price Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: calling all mutt users Message-ID: <20001206224724.G30802@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <20001206212041.G27156@bonsai.knology.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001206212041.G27156@bonsai.knology.net>; from sprice@hiwaay.net on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:20:41PM -0600 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2000-12-06 21:20 -0600, Steve Price wrote: > I'm looking to change my mutt color scheme and was wondering if > anyone had a neat setup that they'd like to share. My current > one has too many bright colors for my black background, green > foreground taste. I also prefer green on black. Here are my mutt colors: color error red black color quoted cyan black color quoted1 yellow black color quoted2 cyan black color quoted3 yellow black color quoted4 cyan black color quoted5 yellow black color hdrdefault yellow black color header brightyellow black ^(From|To|[Cc]c): color tilde blue black color markers yellow black color status white blue color attachment magenta black color body white black "[a-z]+tp://[^ >,]+" color body magenta black [-_+.a-z0-9]+@[-.a-z0-9]+ Enjoy! Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter My reality check just bounced. mailto:gsutter@zer0.org http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 6 23:56: 7 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 23:56:05 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from citusc17.usc.edu (citusc17.usc.edu [128.125.38.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D9037B400 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:56:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kris@localhost) by citusc17.usc.edu (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eB77vf408574; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:57:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:57:41 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Duncan Barclay Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall Message-ID: <20001206235741.A8485@citusc17.usc.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="tThc/1wpZn/ma/RB" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dmlb@dmlb.org on Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 11:12:40PM -0000 Sender: kris@citusc17.usc.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --tThc/1wpZn/ma/RB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 11:12:40PM -0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > Hi >=20 > Can anyone recommend a "stable" version of Netscape? There isn't one, but using the linux version with java and javascript disabled works pretty well for me. Java has never worked properly from day one on any unix platform I've tried - there are some black magic things you can do to not antagonise it, which Terry can probably disburse forth on at length, if pressed :-) In fact, I've had much better success with recent Linux Mozilla snapshots and the JVM plugin - pity it's such a stupendous memory hog, though. Kris --tThc/1wpZn/ma/RB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjovQvUACgkQWry0BWjoQKUTxwCgtnX8aoWu4GFUYg638FZqFHru JuUAoL3djk5vNC0O4JTFVjwPmvNJV6ZR =j6kY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --tThc/1wpZn/ma/RB-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 0: 2: 4 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 00:02:02 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from citusc17.usc.edu (citusc17.usc.edu [128.125.38.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6E937B400 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:02:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kris@localhost) by citusc17.usc.edu (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eB783eC08671; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:03:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:03:40 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Steve Price Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: calling all mutt users Message-ID: <20001207000340.B8485@citusc17.usc.edu> References: <20001206212041.G27156@bonsai.knology.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="CUfgB8w4ZwR/yMy5" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001206212041.G27156@bonsai.knology.net>; from sprice@hiwaay.net on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:20:41PM -0600 Sender: kris@citusc17.usc.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --CUfgB8w4ZwR/yMy5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:20:41PM -0600, Steve Price wrote: > I'm looking to change my mutt color scheme and was wondering if > anyone had a neat setup that they'd like to share. My current > one has too many bright colors for my black background, green > foreground taste. Here's the relevant parts of my muttrc (it was originally based on grog's) color hdrdefault yellow black color quoted white black color signature red black color indicator brightwhite blue color error brightred black color status brightwhite blue color message brightyellow blue color attachment magenta black color search brightyellow black # how to hilite search patterns in the pager color header brightwhite black ^(From): color header brightyellow black ^(To): color header brightyellow black ^([Cc]c): color header green black ^(Subject): color body yellow black "(ftp|http)://[^ >,]+[^]) >,.]" # point out URLs color body yellow black [-a-z_0-9.]+@[-a-z_0-9.]+ # e-mail addresses color underline blue black color normal white black color index brightwhite black BSD color index brightwhite black bsd color body brightwhite black BSD color body brightwhite black bsd color index yellow black "cvs commit:" color body brightwhite black Kris Kris --CUfgB8w4ZwR/yMy5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjovRFkACgkQWry0BWjoQKUv2ACgqL/57dMatEkwisO6/sWCZBY2 BTkAoL2SpoVo00PlKG63JTTbTqUeoqSY =j6Mb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --CUfgB8w4ZwR/yMy5-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 1: 1:17 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 01:01:16 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost01.reflexnet.net (mailhost01.reflexnet.net [64.6.192.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8AB737B400; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:01:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com ([64.6.211.149]) by mailhost01.reflexnet.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:59:39 -0800 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB791BU71835; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:01:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:01:01 -0800 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Duncan Barclay , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall Message-ID: <20001207010100.A70269@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <20001206235741.A8485@citusc17.usc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20001206235741.A8485@citusc17.usc.edu>; from kris@FreeBSD.ORG on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 11:57:41PM -0800 Sender: cjc@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 11:57:41PM -0800, Kris Kennaway wrote: [snip] > Java has never worked properly from day one on any unix platform I've > tried Geez... Don't tell Sun. They'll be crestfallen. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 1: 5:39 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 01:05:36 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from citusc17.usc.edu (citusc17.usc.edu [128.125.38.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A289537B400 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:05:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kris@localhost) by citusc17.usc.edu (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eB797BJ10120; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:07:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:07:10 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: Duncan Barclay , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall Message-ID: <20001207010710.A10079@citusc17.usc.edu> References: <20001206235741.A8485@citusc17.usc.edu> <20001207010100.A70269@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jRHKVT23PllUwdXP" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001207010100.A70269@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com>; from cjclark@reflexnet.net on Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 01:01:01AM -0800 Sender: kris@citusc17.usc.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 01:01:01AM -0800, Crist J. Clark wrote: > On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 11:57:41PM -0800, Kris Kennaway wrote: >=20 > [snip] >=20 > > Java has never worked properly from day one on any unix platform I've > > tried >=20 > Geez... Don't tell Sun. They'll be crestfallen. FWIW, Solaris is in the above list :-) Apparently the problem is with the integration of the JVM with netscape, not the JVM itself. Perhaps that's why mozilla fares better, since the JVM is a plugin and might be better decoupled from the browser itself. Kris --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjovUz0ACgkQWry0BWjoQKUVcwCg3TIqN94sPKltPiQov6JVcRkJ 5jYAoJ/Ujnj/Vxb0ir3p/MH4FIKqoNsI =rr71 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 1:15: 2 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 01:14:47 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost01.reflexnet.net (mailhost01.reflexnet.net [64.6.192.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F1E37B400 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:14:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com ([64.6.211.149]) by mailhost01.reflexnet.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:12:39 -0800 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB79EB871947; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:14:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:14:11 -0800 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: John Galt Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [marca@chem2.harvard.edu: mini-AIR Dec 2000 - Blow Your Coat, Truth, Beauty, Gas] Message-ID: <20001207011411.B70269@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <20001206004915.J99903@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from galt@inconnu.isu.edu on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 03:59:06PM -0700 Sender: cjc@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 03:59:06PM -0700, John Galt wrote: > > I thought JIR (When did they change?) was based in your neck of the > woods--Cambridge... You missed all of that fun, huh? The JIR is still the JIR... kind of. Here is a webpage about the very improbable legal battle after the whole JIR staff, excluding the guy who owned the JIR name, basically got up and started AIR, http://www.improbable.com/airchives/lawsuit/lawsuit-top.html From that page, [SOME BACKGROUND for those who are interested: The Journal of Irreproducible Results was founded in 1955 by Alex Kohn and Harry Lipkin. In 1964, George got involved, becoming the Journal's publisher, a relationship that apparently was inharmonious from the start (please do not ask Marc for details, as he knows them only second hand from Alex and Harry). Many years later, Alex and Marc co-founded the Annals of Improbable Research, with Harry as a founding editorial board member. The entire editorial staff (1955-94) of the Journal moved to the Annals, as did most of the editorial board.] But yeah, they are still based in Cambridge, but that Marc Abrahams gets around. I last saw their presentation when at Princeton while I was living in NJ. But I live out here in Silicon Valley too now. > On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Crist J . Clark wrote: > > > The AIR show is going to be at USC Berkeley. I thought that since a > > lot of the people on this list are in that area and some may have > > interest in this type of silliness that I would take the first line of > > their text to heart. > > > > ----- Forwarded message from Marc Abrahams ----- > > > > Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:58:09 -0500 (EST) > > Errors-To: marca@chem2.harvard.edu > > Reply-To: mini-air@chem.harvard.edu > > Originator: mini-air@air.harvard.edu > > Precedence: bulk > > From: Marc Abrahams > > To: Multiple recipients of list MINI-AIR > > Subject: mini-AIR Dec 2000 - Blow Your Coat, Truth, Beauty, Gas > > X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > > X-UIDL: e82bcf4edb19a79b086e2f05072f69f3 > > > > > > PLEASE FORWARD/POST AS APPROPRIATE > > ================================================================ > > mini-Annals of Improbable Research ("mini-AIR") > > Issue Number 2000-12 > > December, 2000 > > ISSN 1076-500X > > Key words: improbable research, science humor, Ig Nobel, AIR, the > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > A free newsletter of tidbits too tiny to fit in the > > Annals of Improbable Research (AIR), > > the journal of inflated research and personalities > > ================================================================ > > > > ----------------------------- > > 2000-12-01 TABLE OF CONTENTS > > > > 2000-12-01 Table of Contents > > 2000-12-02 mini Housekeeping > > 2000-12-03 What's New in the Magazine > > 2000-12-04 Good Coffee Survey > > 2000-12-05 International Gas Experiment > > 2000-12-06 Project Blow-Your-Coat > > 2000-12-07 Coat-Blowing in the USA > > 2000-12-08 Sentence of Death: Scolasticism > > 2000-12-09 The Truth About Beauty > > 2000-12-10 The Young Turk: a Detective Story > > 2000-12-11 The Y2K Nostalgia Club > > 2000-12-12 Cavalcade of HotAIR: Bare Skin, $$, Peruvian Truckers > > 2000-12-13 Project AIRhead 2000: Beast, Fan, Ball > > 2000-12-14 Postal Frights > > 2000-12-15 MAY WE RECOMMEND: Holiday Research > > 2000-12-16 AIRhead Events > > 2000-12-17 How to Subscribe to AIR (*) > > 2000-12-18 Our Address (*) > > 2000-12-19 Please Forward/Post This Issue! (*) > > 2000-12-20 How to Receive mini-AIR, etc. (*) > > > > Items marked (*) are reprinted in every issue. > > > > mini-AIR is > > a free monthly *e-supplement* to AIR, the print magazine > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-02 mini Housekeeping > > > > 1. AIR show at UC BERKELEY on SUNDAY, DEC. 10 (See section 2000- > > 12-16 below.) Spread the word. > > > > 2. IG ON RADIO -- The annual National Public Radio broadcast of > > the (recorded, edited) Ig Nobel Ceremony was postponed due to the > > NPR radio coverage of US election news. It is tentatively > > scheduled for the final Friday in December. Info will be posted at > > and at > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-03 What's New in the Magazine > > > > AIR 6:6 (Nov/Dec 2000) is the special ECCENTRICS issue. > > > > Special versions of many of the articles will be cropping up on > > the AIR web site during the next few weeks. > > > > A sampling of the article titles: > > > > <> "Edward D. Cope, Heads Above the Rest, the First > > Electronic Publisher in Science," by Earle E. Spamer > > > > <> "The Gentle Art of Political Taxidermy: Charles Waterton, > > Squire of Walton Hall," by Sally Shelton > > > > <> "Chonosuke Okamura, Visionary," by Earle E. Spamer > > > > <> "A Fundamentally Eccentric Premise," by L.X. Finegold > > > > <> "Eccentric Research Recommendations," by Stephen Drew > > > > <> "Frank "Bring 'Em Back Alive and Ready to Eat" Buckland," > > by Sally Shelton > > > > <> "Decoding the British ack-SEN-triks Movement: A > > Phonemological Analysis," by Harold P. Dowd > > > > <> "ASK SYMMETRA: Unbearably Stacked," > > by Scientist/supermodel Symmetra > > > > See the cover and full table of contents, and several of the > > articles posted any day now at > > > > > > (What you are reading at this moment is mini-AIR, > > a monthly e-mail small supplement to the print magazine.) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-04 Good Coffee Survey > > > > It is time, once again, to choose and settle a burning or boiling > > scientific controversy. This month's choice is of the boiling, > > rather than burning, variety. Scientific correctness survey #402 > > asks: > > > > Scientifically speaking, what makes a good cup of coffee? > > > > If you have a rich, full-bodied, perfectly brewed answer, please > > send it (in CONCISE form!) to COFFEE SURVEY, c/o > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-05 International Gas Experiment > > > > Investigator Philip Miller Tate of Kingston University in the UK, > > has proposed a novel experiment in international inflammation. In > > his words: > > > > As a chemistry lecturer with an interest in the environment, > > I propose the following public survey: > > I am curiously interested in the accuracy of the assertion > > made by French President Chirac recently, that "Each > > American produces three times as much greenhouse gases > > as a Frenchman". Is he correct, or has he just been eating > > too much French beef? > > > > Please participate in our survey by answering the following two > > questions: > > > > 1. Is President Chirac correct about the gassiness of the average > > American? (YES/NO) > > > > 2. Will Dr. Philip Miller Tate succeed in creating an > > international gas-fired conflagration? (YES/NO) > > > > Please send your answers to GASSY INCIDENT SURVEY, c/o > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-06 Project Blow-Your-Coat > > > > Please join us in carrying out Project Blow-Your-Coat. The goal is > > to introduce into wide circulation the evocative scientifical > > phrase "blow your coat." > > > > The phrase described a phenomenon observed in chinchillas. When > > startled, they sometimes shed their fur. Veterinarians call this > > "blowing the coat." The phrase can be applied, at least in a > > metaphorical way, to humans -- thus the inception of Project Blow- > > Your-Coat. > > > > RECOMMENDED USAGE: as a folksy, yet precise way of urging someone > > to relax rather than to act startled, or to suggest that someone > > has overreacted. > > > > EXAMPLE #1: "Don't blow your coat, man." > > > > EXAMPLE #2: "When Professor Sigerson saw the bill, she totally > > blew her coat." > > > > INCENTIVE BONUS: After you succeed in getting even one person to > > habitually use the phrase "blow your coat," you will be authorized > > by the Blow-Your-Coat Foundation to affix the Blow family coat of > > arms to the arm of your coat. You can see the Blow coat of arms at > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-07 Coat-Blowing in the USA > > > > Seven (7, a number that has been confirmed by machine re-count) > > mini-AIR readers blew their coats after reading last month's > > salute to mathematics teacher K. Harris. Three of these readers > > demanded that we "do something." > > > > Here is the something -- an omni-partisan, internationally > > inflammatory statement. Like last month's salute, this statement > > may be useful to mathematics and statistics teachers. Though > > superficially about the recent Florida singularity, it can be > > applied to the sordidly amusing clash of any political parties in > > any close election anywhere: > > > > * * * > > INFLAMMATORY 3-PART PARTISAN STATEMENT: > > > > 1) When it was clear that the Florida vote was a virtual tie -- > > and before ANYONE knew which way the initial count would go -- we > > predicted that WHOEVER came out ahead in the initial count would > > try everything under the sun to prevent a careful recount, and > > that both sides would twist the mathematics beyond recognition. > > > > 2) The prediction was entirely accurate. Slap a minus sign on the > > initial difference and you would have seen exactly the same > > exaggerated -- and in many cases delightfully loopy -- "arguments" > > coming out of exactly the opposite sets of mouths. > > > > 3) Upset by the result of any election that was too close to > > measure with certainty? Don't blow your coat. Sit back and drink > > in the show of clever people on both sides doing their darndest to > > mangle the mathematics. It is a cogno-intellectual spectacle worth > > savoring. > > * * * > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-08 Sentence of Death: Scolasticism > > > > Our SENTENCE OF DEATH Contest is alive and well, and back after a > > long absence. This month's entry was shipped here by investigator > > Alistair McCulloch: > > > > The scolasticism (sic) of the great corpus of > > European philosophy must be de-escalated in favour of > > transparency of ideas that allow for the participation > > of the average intellect in the substance of the discourse > > as an adjunct to action in the everyday world. > > -- Adrian Atkinson, Principles of Political Ecology, > > 1991, Belhaven Press, London, p.44. > > > > Investigator McCullogh gamely offers this attempt at > > interpretation: > > I think what the author is calling for is for writers to > > keep what they are saying simple so that the average person > > in the street can understand....but I'm not really sure... > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-09 The Truth About Beauty > > > > Here are ugly results of Scientific Survey #406. It concerned the > > conjecture by the poet John Keats that: > > > > "Beauty is truth, truth beauty ..." > > > > The survey asked: Do you (a) agree or (b) disagree? > > At also asked: If you disagree, then what is beauty if not truth? > > Or what is truth if not beauty? > > > > Here are the results: > > > > 32% AGREE > > 58% DISAGREE > > 07% BOTH > > 03% NO > > > > The responses were, in truth, not very beautiful. We present only > > one of them. It demonstrates, if nothing else, that truth can be > > stunning: > > > > "My sister-in-law is a beautiful woman, but she is so false that > > I do not believe Keats was right." > > --Pietro Cavalli > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-10 The Young Turk: a Detective Story > > > > Investigators H. Zaman and Bruce Goatly each sent us the same > > citation: > > > > "Structural and Functional Aspects of Papain-Like Cysteine > > Proteinases And Their Protein Inhibitors," B. Turk, V. Turk, and > > D. Turk, Biological Chemistry, vol. 378, nos. 3-4, March-April > > 1997, pp. 141-50. > > > > Zamand and Goatly both raise the same question: Which is the young > > Turk? The authors are at the J. Stefan Institute, Ljubljana, > > Slovenia. > > > > If you happen to KNOW which is the young Turk, or if you have done > > the requisite detective work and thusly KNOW which it is, please > > let us know. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-11 The Y2K Nostalgia Club > > > > We've been receiving letters from people who miss the excitement > > of the Y2K watch. Many sufferers ask that we form a support group. > > We might be willing to do that, if we understood what it is we'd > > be supporting, or even why, let alone how. In the meantime, rest > > assured, Y2K nostalgia sufferers, that you would have our sympathy > > if we had any. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-12 Cavalcade of HotAIR: Bare Skin, $$, Peruvian Truckers > > > > Here are concise, incomplete, flighty mentions of some of the > > features we've posted on HotAIR since last month's mini-AIR came > > out. You can get to all of them by clicking on "WHAT'S NEW" at the > > web site, or by going to: > > > > > > AIRHEAD TECH NOTES:, a curious missive we received, which seems to > > claim that, just maybe, Water Prevents Dehydration. > > > > RESEARCH QUESTION -- Cold Bodies, An Inquiry into Human Physiology > > (with lurid photos) > > > > STATISTICS LESSON -- Fat, Money, Correlation, Causality > > > > MAY WE RECOMMEND -- Several of the citations that first appeared > > in the "AIRhead Research Review" and "AIRhead Medical Review" > > columns of the AIR, such as: > > <> "Machismo in Motion: The Ethos of Peruvian Truckers" > > <> "We All Make Mistakes"" > > <> "Heterosis and Hybrid Performance in Topless Faba Beans" > > <> "Pseudostupidity: a Study in Masochistic Exhibitionism" > > > > POSTAL EXPERIMENTS -- Jeff Van Bueren's landmark paper, originally > > published in AIR 6:4, and now posted on the AIR web site as a > > public service > > > > THESE, AND MORE, ARE ON HOTAIR AT > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-13 Project AIRhead 2000: Beast, Fan, Ball > > > > ITEM 49491 (submitted by investigator Pete Kaiser) > > STEEL DRAGON 2000, claimed to be the world's > > biggest, fastest, and longest roller coaster, located in the > > Nagashima Spaland amusement park in Japan. > > > > ITEM 6833 (submitted by investigator Ron Josephson) > > WhisperWind 2000, a ceiling fan made by Hunter. > > > > ITEM 52833 (submitted by Rodney Ray) > > TOP FLITE 2000 XL, a golf ball. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-14 Postal Frights > > > > The US Postal Service (USPS) has announced that it is about to > > announce higher postage rates for periodicals. Possibly this is > > USPS's reaction to the aforementioned landmark article "Postal > > Experiments," which was published in AIR vol. 6, no. 4. > > > > In case you missed that article, we have now posted it on the AIR > > web site, at > > > > > > Most likely, the postal increase will be substantial, and if so we > > will need to raise, at least slightly, the cost of a subscription > > to AIR. This frightening fact may be as good an excuse as any for > > you to at last treat yourself to a subscription to the magnificent > > magazine, the Annals of Improbable Research. (For details, see > > Section 2000-12-17 below) > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-15 MAY WE RECOMMEND: Holiday Research > > > > Here are further selections from our vast collection of items that > > inexplicably have 2000 as part of their name. > > > > RAMADAN RESEARCH > > "Irritability During the Month of Ramadan," N. Kadri, A. Tilane, > > M. El Batal, Y. Taltit, S.M. Tahiri, and D. Moussaoui, > > Psychosomatic Medicine, vol. 62, no. 2, March-April 2000, pp. 280- > > 5. (Thanks to F. Harper for bringing this to our attention.) The > > authors explain their work: > > We hypothesized that people in Morocco are more irritable > > during the month of Ramadan than during the rest > > of the year.... RESULTS: Irritability was significantly > > higher in smokers than in nonsmokers before the beginning > > of Ramadan. It was higher in both groups during the Ramadan > > month. Irritability increased continuously during Ramadan > > and reached its peak at the end of the month. > > > > CHRISTMAS RESEARCH > > "Eye Damage from Christmas Trees," D.J. Brazier, Lancet, vol. 2, > > no. 8415, December 8, 1984, p. 1335. (Thanks to Reto Schneider for > > bringing this to our attention.) > > > > HANUKKAH RESEARCH > > "Jewish Holiday Hazards," G. Solomon, Journal of Family Practice, > > vol. 42, no. 1, January 1996, p. 84. (Thanks to Paulina Trefill > > for bringing this to our attention.) > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > 2000-12-16 AIRhead Events > > > > ==> For details and updates see > > ==> Want to host an event? 617-491-4437. > > > > UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY SUN, DEC 10 > > 7:00 PM, Valley Life Sciences Building > > AIR Editor Marc Abrahams will present the latest on improbable > > research and the Ig Nobel Prizes. Event sponsored by National > > Center for Science Education and the Bay Area Skeptics. > > INFO: Eugenie Scott 510-526-1674 > > > > > > INTERNATIONAL ELECTRON DEVICES MEETING, SAN FRANCISCO TUES, DEC 12 > > AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS will ruin lunch by discussing the Ig > > Nobel Prizes and the current state of improbable research. > > INFO: Mark Law (352) 392-6459 > > > > ANNUAL IG NOBEL BROADCAST, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO DATE TBA > > *** The broadcast was originally scheduled for Nov 24 -- > > *** However, it was pre-empted by NPR news coverage of > > *** the US national election > > *** When we know the revised schedule, we will > > *** post it here. > > Broadcast of recording of the 2000 Ig Nobel Prize Ceremony, > > on NPR's "Science Friday with Ira Flatow" program. > > INFO: > > > > MCGILL UNIV., MONTREAL TBA > > Date, time, etc. TBA > > > > ROCHESTER (NY) MUSEUM & SCIENCE CENTER WED, JAN 24, 2001 > > 7:30 pm. AIR Editor MARC ABRAHAMS will present the latest on > > "Improbable > > Research, the Ig Nobel Prizes, and Aha!-Ha-Ha Moments in Science." > > INFO: Paul Porell 716-271-4552 x 363 > > > > STANFORD UNIVERSITY WED, FEB 14, 2001 > > Valentine's Day improbable research gala with: > > <> AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS > > <> "How to Quantify Failure" author MARTIN J. MURPHY > > <> "UFOs & Internal Combustion Engines" author SCOTT SANDFORD > > <> "Postal Experiments" author JEFF VAN BUEREN > > <> "Structured Procrastination" author JOHN PERRY > > <> and other surpris(ing) personages > > Further details TBA. > > INFO: Michele Armstrong > > > > AAAS ANNUAL MEETING, SAN FRANCISCO FRI, FEB 16, 2001 > > Details TBA. AIR's annual session as part of the annual meeting of > > the American Association for the Advancement of Science. > > Participants will include: > > <> AIR editor MARC ABRAHAMS > > <> "How to Quantify Failure" author MARTIN J. MURPHY > > <> "UFOs & Internal Combustion Engines" author SCOTT SANDFORD > > <> "Postal Experiments" author JEFF VAN BUEREN > > <> "Structured Procrastination" author JOHN PERRY > > <> and other surpris(ing) personages > > Further details TBA. > > > > SAS/ACS SPECIAL JOINT MEETING, PRINCETON, NJ DATE TBA > > > > WEIZMANN INSTITUTE, ISRAEL WEEK OF MAY 13-18, 2001 > > Details TBA. > > > > HEBREW UNIVERSITY OF JERUSALEM MAY 2001 > > Tentatively scheduled. Details TBA. > > > > 11th FIRST ANNUAL IG NOBEL PRIZE CEREMONY THURS, OCT 4, 2001 > > Sanders Theatre, Harvard University > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-17 How to Subscribe to AIR (*) > > > > Here's how to subscribe to the magnificent bi-monthly print > > journal The Annals of Improbable Research (the real thing, not > > just the little bits of overflow material you have been reading > > here in mini-AIR). > > ............................................................... > > Name: > > Address: > > Address: > > City and State: > > Zip or postal code: > > Country > > Phone: FAX: E-mail: > > ............................................................... > > SUBSCRIPTIONS (6 issues per year): > > USA 1 yr/$23 2 yrs/$39 > > Canada/Mexico 1 yr/$27 US 2 yrs/$45 US > > Overseas 1 yr/$40 US 2 yrs/$70 US > > ............................................................... > > BACK ISSUES are available, too: > > First issue: $8 USA, $11 Canada/Mex, $16 overseas Add'l issues > > purchased at same time: $6 each > > ............................................................... > > Send payment (US bank check, or international money order, or > > Visa, Mastercard or Discover info) to: > > Annals of Improbable Research (AIR) > > PO Box 380853, Cambridge, MA 02238 USA > > 617-491-4437 FAX:617-661-0927 > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-18 Our Address (*) > > > > Annals of Improbable Research (AIR) > > PO Box 380853, Cambridge, MA 02238 USA > > 617-491-4437 FAX:617-661-0927 > > > > EDITORIAL: marca@chem2.harvard.edu > > SUBSCRIPTIONS: air@improbable.com > > WEB SITE: > > > > > > --------------------------- > > 2000-12-19 Please Forward/Post This Issue! (*) > > > > Please distribute copies of mini-AIR (or excerpts!) wherever > > appropriate. The only limitations are: A) Please indicate that the > > material comes from mini-AIR. B) You may NOT distribute mini-AIR > > for commercial purposes. > > > > ------------- mini-AIRheads ------------- > > EDITOR: Marc Abrahams (marca@chem2.harvard.edu) > > MINI-PROOFREADER AND PICKER OF NITS (before we introduce the last > > few at the last moment): Wendy Mattson > > WWW EDITOR/GLOBAL VILLAGE IDIOT: Amy Gorin > > (airmaster@improbable.com) > > COMMUTATIVE EDITOR: Stanley Eigen (eigen@neu.edu) > > ASSOCIATIVE EDITOR: Mark Dionne > > DISTRIBUTIVE EDITOR: Robin Pearce > > CO-CONSPIRATORS: Gary Dryfoos, Ernest Ersatz, Craig Haggart, Nicki > > Rohloff > > MAITRE DE COMPUTATION: Jerry Lotto > > AUTHORITY FIGURES: Nobel Laureates Dudley Herschbach, Sheldon > > Glashow, William Lipscomb, Richard Roberts > > > > (c) copyright 2000, Annals of Improbable Research > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > 2000-12-20 How to Receive mini-AIR, etc. (*) > > > > What you are reading right now is mini-AIR. Mini-AIR is a (free!) > > tiny monthly *supplement* to the bi-monthly print magazine. > > To subscribe, send a brief E-mail message to: > > LISTPROC@AIR.HARVARD.EDU > > The body of your message should contain ONLY the words > > SUBSCRIBE MINI-AIR MARIE CURIE > > (You may substitute your own name for that of Madame Curie.) > > ---------------------------- > > To stop subscribing, send the following message: SIGNOFF MINI-AIR > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > > > -- > Pardon me, but you have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a > damn. > email galt@inconnu.isu.edu > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 1:31: 4 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 01:31:03 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D890A37B400 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33253; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:30:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Sender: des@ofug.org X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Duncan Barclay Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 07 Dec 2000 10:30:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: Duncan Barclay's message of "Tue, 05 Dec 2000 23:12:40 -0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Duncan Barclay writes: > Can anyone recommend a "stable" version of Netscape? /usr/ports/www/linux-opera :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 3:26:19 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 03:26:18 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8997837B401 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 03:26:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from dmlb.org ([62.253.135.85]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001207112615.RHYA5045.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@dmlb.org>; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:26:15 +0000 Received: from dmlb by dmlb.org with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 143zCC-0003IW-00; Thu, 07 Dec 2000 11:26:40 +0000 Content-Length: 606 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 11:26:39 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi On 07-Dec-00 Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Duncan Barclay writes: >> Can anyone recommend a "stable" version of Netscape? > > /usr/ports/www/linux-opera :) > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org > Thanks - all I needed was to update to linux_base_6.1 and it's going fine. Opera does look nice. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@dmlb.org | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 7:59:19 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 07:59:17 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (unknown [194.128.198.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6421D37B400 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 07:59:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eB7FdFo32498; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:39:15 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:39:15 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Steve Price Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: calling all mutt users Message-ID: <20001207153915.A32312@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20001206212041.G27156@bonsai.knology.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001206212041.G27156@bonsai.knology.net>; from sprice@hiwaay.net on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:20:41PM -0600 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:20:41PM -0600, Steve Price wrote: > I'm looking to change my mutt color scheme and was wondering if > anyone had a neat setup that they'd like to share. My current > one has too many bright colors for my black background, green > foreground taste. ... color normal yellow black color hdrdefault cyan black color header green black From: color quoted white black color signature red black color indicator black white color tree green black color search default green color body cyan black "(ftp|http)://[^ ]+" # point out URLs color body cyan black [-a-z_0-9.]+@[-a-z_0-9.]+ # e-mail addresses ... I've also just started using vim6, which, with this line in .muttrc set editor="vim -s ~/.vimrc.mail -c ':0;/^Subject:' +/^$/ " and these lines in ~/.vimrc.mail :highlight Normal cterm=NONE ctermbg=Black ctermfg=Brown :highlight Comment cterm=NONE ctermbg=Black ctermfg=Grey :highlight Identifier cterm=NONE ctermbg=black ctermfg=Grey :highlight PreProc cterm=NONE ctermbg=black ctermfg=DarkRed Makes Vim do the right thing about colouring my replies as I write them as well. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 8:11:52 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 08:11:50 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from reliant.nielsenmedia.com (reliant.nielsenmedia.com [205.129.32.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1980037B400 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 08:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from nmrusdunsxg2.nielsenmedia.com (nmrusdunsxg2.nielsenmedia.com [10.9.11.121]) by reliant.nielsenmedia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23622 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:11:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by nmrusdunsxg2.nielsenmedia.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) id ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:11:47 -0500 Message-ID: <01D4D419B1A4D111A30400805FE65B13070AC110@nmrusdunsx1.nielsenmedia.com> From: "Gray, David W." To: "'FreeBSD Chat List'" Subject: All users are reminded... Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:11:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Look, its bad enough somebody forwards a few hundred line message to -chat... If you're going to discuss it, for gawd's sake *********SNIP IT!!!!!!*********** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 13:15:13 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 13:15:11 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from icicle.winternet.com (icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BF637B400; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:15:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from tundra.winternet.com (nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11]) by icicle.winternet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3mc) with ESMTP id PAA07228; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:15:10 -0600 (CST) SMTP "HELO" (ESMTP) greeting from tundra.winternet.com But _really_ from :: nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11] SMTP "MAIL From" = nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com (Nathan Ahlstrom) SMTP "RCPT To" = Received: (from nrahlstr@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA09718; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:15:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:15:08 -0600 From: Nathan Ahlstrom To: jkh@FreeBSD.org, chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall menus.c Message-ID: <20001207151508.B9619@winternet.com> Mail-Followup-To: jkh@FreeBSD.org, chat@FreeBSD.org References: <200012072004.eB7K4a181614@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200012072004.eB7K4a181614@freefall.freebsd.org>; from jkh@FreeBSD.ORG on Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 12:04:36PM -0800 Sender: nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sheepdip!?!?! "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > jkh 2000/12/07 12:04:36 PST > > Modified files: > release/sysinstall menus.c > Log: > Fix bug where minimal dist selection didn't check off the right > menu item. > > Noticed by: Dan "Sheepdip" Langille > > Revision Changes Path > 1.287 +2 -2 src/release/sysinstall/menus.c > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe cvs-all" in the body of the message -- Nathan Ahlstrom / nrahlstr@winternet.com / nra@FreeBSD.org / PGP: 0x67BC9D19 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 13:16:12 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 13:16:10 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DCB837B400; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:16:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eB7LG3w16411; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:16:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: jkh@FreeBSD.org, chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall menus.c In-Reply-To: Message from Nathan Ahlstrom of "Thu, 07 Dec 2000 15:15:08 CST." <20001207151508.B9619@winternet.com> Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 13:16:03 -0800 Message-ID: <16407.976223763@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org He's from New Zealand and you'd also have to understand it from his perspective. :) > Sheepdip!?!?! > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > jkh 2000/12/07 12:04:36 PST > > > > Modified files: > > release/sysinstall menus.c > > Log: > > Fix bug where minimal dist selection didn't check off the right > > menu item. > > > > Noticed by: Dan "Sheepdip" Langille > > > > Revision Changes Path > > 1.287 +2 -2 src/release/sysinstall/menus.c > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe cvs-all" in the body of the message > > -- > Nathan Ahlstrom / nrahlstr@winternet.com / nra@FreeBSD.org / PGP: 0x67BC9D19 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 15:51:33 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 15:51:30 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop3pub.verizon.net (smtppop3pub.gte.net [206.46.170.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D6937B400 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:51:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from gte.net (evrtwa1-ar4-144-082.dsl.gtei.net [4.34.144.82]) by smtppop3pub.verizon.net with ESMTP ; id RAA77375549 Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:47:10 -0600 (CST) Received: (from res03db2@localhost) by gte.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24908; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:51:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from res03db2@gte.net) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:51:11 -0800 From: Robert Clark To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall menus.c Message-ID: <20001207155111.A24889@darkstar.dsl.vz.genuity.net> References: <16407.976223763@winston.osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <16407.976223763@winston.osd.bsdi.com>; from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com on Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 01:16:03PM -0800 Sender: res03db2@gte.net Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A good name for a debugger. Grin. On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 01:16:03PM -0800, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > He's from New Zealand and you'd also have to understand it from his > perspective. :) > > > > Sheepdip!?!?! > > > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > jkh 2000/12/07 12:04:36 PST > > > > > > Modified files: > > > release/sysinstall menus.c > > > Log: > > > Fix bug where minimal dist selection didn't check off the right > > > menu item. > > > > > > Noticed by: Dan "Sheepdip" Langille > > > > > > Revision Changes Path > > > 1.287 +2 -2 src/release/sysinstall/menus.c > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe cvs-all" in the body of the message > > > > -- > > Nathan Ahlstrom / nrahlstr@winternet.com / nra@FreeBSD.org / PGP: 0x67BC9D19 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 18:53: 9 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 18:53:04 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from superconductor.rush.net (superconductor.rush.net [208.9.155.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 550EC37B401; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (trish@localhost) by superconductor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27625; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:52:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:52:58 -0500 (EST) From: Siobhan Patricia Lynch X-Sender: trish@superconductor.rush.net To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NEABUG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ok, the website is now up at http://neabug.org its slash based, and will have BSD news echoing some of the stuff I've done on Slashdot, as well as other material, User Groups from all over, send me your news! I won't mind posting from all over the world. The reason for the format is that we are covering such a large area, New England, and want as much participation as we can get, even though some people will not be able to make it to various meetings. (Chances are we'll find a meeting place in Boston at first, then look at other places around NE) -Trish On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 2:54 PM -0500 12/6/00, Siobhan Patricia Lynch wrote: > >We are now starting to organize NEABUG > > (New England Area BSD User Group) > > > >Hopefully, this one will be much better organized and able to > >stand on its own feet without Trish this time =) > > > >Anyway, anyone interested in lending a helping hand, please > >email me, and I'll plan a planning meeting somewhere near > >Boston. > > > >PS, there should be a prelimiary website up soon... I'll post > > to -chat with that information. > > please post to -advocacy too. If the web site is interesting > enough, it should merit more than just a mention in -chat! :-) > > (besides, I'm trying to avoid joining -chat, as I'm already > on too many busy mailing lists...) > -- > Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu > Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org > Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu > __ Trish Lynch FreeBSD - The Power to Serve trish@bsdunix.net Rush Networking trish@rush.net VA Linux Systems trish@valinux.com O|S|D|N trish@osdn.com --- "when your whole life is on the tip of your tongue empty pages for the no longer young the apathy of time laughed in your face did you hear me say 'each life has its place'" -Indigo Girls, Virginia Woolf To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 19: 9:13 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 19:09:11 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE1637B400 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 19:09:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA02495; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAmYaaQe; Thu Dec 7 20:04:54 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA02321; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:08:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200012080308.UAA02321@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: off topic in chat? Search Engines question To: brooks@one-eyed-alien.net (Brooks Davis) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 03:08:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chip@wiegand.org (chip), chat@FreeBSD.ORG (chat@FreeBSD.ORG) In-Reply-To: <20001206180631.A15059@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> from "Brooks Davis" at Dec 06, 2000 06:06:31 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tlambert@usr08.primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I have been asked to put some new meta keywords on a web > > site I made, and the client wants to use almost 30. I have > > tried to explain to them that is probably too many. > > I have emailed several search engine admins asking them > > what they consider an appropriate amount, or max number of > > keywords in the meta tags. > > What are the opinions of the people on this list of this topic? > > Meta tags may well be dead. Google doesn't use them because they are > basicaly useless (99.999% of sites with META keywords just make them up > to get hits.) I suspect other search engines will be moving in the > same direction since everyone is moving towards a model more like > google's then like early search engines. See: http://register-it.netscape.com/O=wsg/content/searchtips.html There really isn't a limit, but you should keep them focussed; Netscape suggests using common "creative" spellings, as well as plurals, etc., of your keywords. The description portion is limited to 200 (or truncated to 150) characters by some search engines. For brain-damaged search engines, like google and IBM's "Intelligent Miner", both of which I find to be worse than useless for searching when I already know the lexicography for what I want (almost always), they suggest using your keywords early on on your page, and suggest registering multiple pages when you have otherwise thinly related content, rather than trying to get your entire site listed by the keywords on one page. Personally, I'm sticking with Altavista... NB: The more keywords you use, the more likely your site is to be considered in a particular category related to the keyword, which can trigger filtering spiders to include your page in prohibition lists based on content, as well. Your best bet is to keep the keyword list short and relevent to your audience (sex sites and other frequently filtered content can ignore this, since they are going to get into the filtering lists, no matter what). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 7 20:26:32 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 20:26:30 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3832B37B400; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:26:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00741; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:24:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAATZaWzb; Thu Dec 7 21:24:09 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA04354; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:26:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200012080426.VAA04354@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall To: kris@FreeBSD.ORG (Kris Kennaway) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 04:26:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dmlb@dmlb.org (Duncan Barclay), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001206235741.A8485@citusc17.usc.edu> from "Kris Kennaway" at Dec 06, 2000 11:57:41 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tlambert@usr08.primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Can anyone recommend a "stable" version of Netscape? > > There isn't one, but using the linux version with java and javascript > disabled works pretty well for me. > > Java has never worked properly from day one on any unix platform I've > tried - there are some black magic things you can do to not antagonise > it, which Terry can probably disburse forth on at length, if pressed > :-) In fact, I've had much better success with recent Linux Mozilla > snapshots and the JVM plugin - pity it's such a stupendous memory hog, > though. They make invalid assumptions about thread scheduling, which POSIX does not guarantee, but which Windows, and most kernel threads = process implementation do, with regard to which thread runs after an involuntary context switch. FWIW, it seems that they fixed their Java GIF rendered to be reentrant, recently, even on FreeBSD. The main "voodoo" is to not move the mouse pointer until everything is done being loaded, or you may trigger the scheduler, and reenter their non-reentrant code. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 8 12:40:35 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 8 12:40:33 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mass.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-63-202-176-64.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.176.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A29837B401 for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2000 12:40:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.osd.bsdi.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eB8KnrF01944; Fri, 8 Dec 2000 12:49:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.osd.bsdi.com) Message-Id: <200012082049.eB8KnrF01944@mass.osd.bsdi.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Burbaickij Ariel Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is actually the state of support for Compaq 10/100 Netellige nt In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Dec 2000 18:13:48 +0100." <1F69DAAD3391D411BE5300805FBED48B496C00@ERLM511A.erl9.siemens.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 12:49:53 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: msmith@mass.osd.bsdi.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please note that this sort of behaviour is not acceptable on FreeBSD lists, and if you persist with this attitude you will be filtered. On a more reasonable note; assume that you have just discovered that, like most New Yorkers, the driver author is well armed, and you've said this to his face. Now, do you expect him to help you, or leave you bleeding in a snowdrift? > Is the driver f*cking buggy or what? > It recognizes the thing correctly as Netelligent 10/100 card > but fails to allocate memory to it as it uses to say me at least. > Where is so clever and smart author of driver ? > I want to know following 3 things : > > 1) Is card supported so that I can rely on this support ? > 2) If it to some f*cking extent still in development stage > I want to see what exactly is going on during driver's > tries to do this thing or that.How do I find it out ? > 3) What does it meant that the card is listed in /etc/defaults/pc_card > is it fully supported is it partialy supported is it so that some funny > guy has just learned new brand for PCMCIA cards and decided to > pollute the file little bit more or what ? > > Regards > > > PS card is supported under Linux from the very first minute. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-mobile" in the body of the message > -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 9 4:24:17 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 9 04:24:16 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail46.fg.online.no (mail46-s.fg.online.no [148.122.161.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258A037B400 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 04:24:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from online.no (ti01a02-0179.dialup.online.no [130.67.1.179]) by mail46.fg.online.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03660 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 13:24:12 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3A32242A.30DF178@online.no> Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 13:23:06 +0100 From: Tore Lund X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Duncan Barclay writes: > > Can anyone recommend a "stable" version of Netscape? > > /usr/ports/www/linux-opera :) Maybe I'm dense, but I find no linux-opera in /usr/ports/www/. I have installed ports.tgz, and linux-netscape etc. are there. Any clue? TIA. -- Tore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 9 5:13: 9 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 9 05:13:07 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB1537B400 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 05:13:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA45180; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:12:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Sender: des@ofug.org X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Tore Lund Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall References: <3A32242A.30DF178@online.no> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 09 Dec 2000 14:12:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: Tore Lund's message of "Sat, 09 Dec 2000 13:23:06 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tore Lund writes: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Duncan Barclay writes: > > > Can anyone recommend a "stable" version of Netscape? > > /usr/ports/www/linux-opera :) > Maybe I'm dense, but I find no linux-opera in /usr/ports/www/. I have > installed ports.tgz, and linux-netscape etc. are there. Any clue? TIA. RTFM: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/cvsup.html DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 9 12:55:55 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 9 12:55:53 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail50.fg.online.no (unknown [148.122.161.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E72F237B400 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 12:55:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from online.no (ti34a04-0186.dialup.online.no [130.67.70.186]) by mail50.fg.online.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18216 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 21:55:50 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3A329B2A.E2D76CC7@online.no> Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:50:50 +0100 From: Tore Lund X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall References: <3A32242A.30DF178@online.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Tore Lund writes: > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > Duncan Barclay writes: > > > > Can anyone recommend a "stable" version of Netscape? > > > /usr/ports/www/linux-opera :) > > Maybe I'm dense, but I find no linux-opera in /usr/ports/www/. I have > > installed ports.tgz, and linux-netscape etc. are there. Any clue? TIA. > > RTFM: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/cvsup.html If people don't mean to say the F in RTFM, maybe they could drop it and say RTM instead? Just a thought - it would make a difference. And if they do mean to say that F? Well, hopefully they don't... -- Tore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 9 13:14:32 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 9 13:14:30 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61C737B400 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 13:14:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA46542; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 22:14:26 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Sender: des@ofug.org X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Tore Lund Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall References: <3A32242A.30DF178@online.no> <3A329B2A.E2D76CC7@online.no> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 09 Dec 2000 22:14:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: Tore Lund's message of "Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:50:50 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tore Lund writes: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > RTFM: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/cvsup.html > If people don't mean to say the F in RTFM, maybe they could drop it and > say RTM instead? Just a thought - it would make a difference. Of course I meant to say the F - it's a *very* fine manual indeed :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 9 14:54:38 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 9 14:54:36 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail47.fg.online.no (mail47-s.fg.online.no [148.122.161.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90CFD37B400 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from online.no (ti34a02-0032.dialup.online.no [130.67.69.32]) by mail47.fg.online.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10170 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 23:54:32 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3A32B756.1060ACBE@online.no> Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:51:02 +0100 From: Tore Lund X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall References: <3A32242A.30DF178@online.no> <3A329B2A.E2D76CC7@online.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Tore Lund writes: > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > RTFM: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/cvsup.html > > If people don't mean to say the F in RTFM, maybe they could drop it and > > say RTM instead? Just a thought - it would make a difference. > > Of course I meant to say the F - it's a *very* fine manual indeed :) I agree that I could have looked farther before asking that question. But even after thinking about it I find it odd that linux-opera was not in ports.tgz of 4.2-RELEASE, since the version in question certainly existed prior to November 20. For the rest, it is a bit frustrating to find that the Opera version offered is 4.03b or something, while the new, free Windows version is 5.00. And I could find no mail or news - nor is there any response when I try to consult Help. This is sadly reminiscent of Netscape, where the functionality of 4.7x is not the same for the Windows and Unix versions. So I tried to download Galeon and SkipStone. But both of these tried to fetch some Mozilla file of 22 MB, whereupon I pressed Ctrl-C. Links is fine, but a text mode program. If anyone knows of GUI browsers, news/mailreaders of more modest proportions, I am all ears. -- Tore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 9 15:41:39 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 9 15:41:38 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E22437B400 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:41:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA47020; Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:41:35 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Sender: des@ofug.org X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Tore Lund Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall References: <3A32242A.30DF178@online.no> <3A329B2A.E2D76CC7@online.no> <3A32B756.1060ACBE@online.no> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 10 Dec 2000 00:41:35 +0100 In-Reply-To: Tore Lund's message of "Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:51:02 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tore Lund writes: > For the rest, it is a bit frustrating to find that the Opera version > offered is 4.03b or something, while the new, free Windows version is > 5.00. Opera was originally developed on Windows, and is being ported to Unix. It is only to be expected that the Unix version is not quite fully functional yet (especially since they seem to lack sufficient Unix experttise; I was offered a job there for just that reason but had to turn it down due to being otherwise engaged) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 9 16:35:22 2000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 9 16:35:20 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2721337B400 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 16:35:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29452; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 17:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA40aWE5; Sat Dec 9 17:32:50 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA00134; Sat, 9 Dec 2000 17:35:04 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200012100035.RAA00134@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Arrgh - Net-scrape your brains off the wall To: tl001@online.no (Tore Lund) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:35:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3A329B2A.E2D76CC7@online.no> from "Tore Lund" at Dec 09, 2000 09:50:50 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tlambert@usr08.primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > RTFM: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/cvsup.html > > If people don't mean to say the F in RTFM, maybe they could drop it and > say RTM instead? Just a thought - it would make a difference. > > And if they do mean to say that F? Well, hopefully they don't... "Read The Fine Manual"... ?!? Is "Fine" a bad word in Norway? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message