From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 25 16:29:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218AF37B4EC; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:29:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@zer0.org) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D7838239AAC; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:29:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:29:33 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD licence vs GPL Message-ID: <20010225162933.T656@klapaucius.zer0.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <046d01c09bd0$1e8bdfc0$0300a8c0@wilma> <007101c09be9$04ff4f60$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <20010221023316.A49953@mollari.cthul.hu> <3A982563.407C41F2@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A982563.407C41F2@softweyr.com>; from wes@softweyr.com on Sat, Feb 24, 2001 at 02:19:31PM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2001-02-24 14:19 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > > This fits quite well in Terry's theory of "enlightened self-interest", that > drives companies to contribute their changes back to BSDL projects. Staying > close to the current releases makes it a lot easier to apply critical fixes > as they become available, just as contributing your own fixes (and additions) > to the system back allows others to maintain them for you. Well, it's not exactly Terry's theory. I first remember reading about the Principle of Enlightened Self-Interest in a Doc Smith novel, probably "Subspace Explorers". Followups to chat, please. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm mailto:gsutter@zer0.org for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ be warm for the rest of his life. hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 3:55:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E9B237B491; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 03:55:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p47-dn02kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [211.0.245.112]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id UAA10807; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:55:03 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3A9A436B.821D0B01@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:52:11 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Jack Rusher , Terry Lambert , Sam Leffler , Zhiui Zhang , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system References: <200102072323.QAA27692@usr08.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I have been wondering about this legal issue lately. What is the law > > with regards to implementing XFS as a KLM for FreeBSD & shipping the > > source in contrib? It won't help people who are trying to make > > commercial products with embedded FreeBSD, but it might be useful for > > sysadmins. > > You won't be able to boot from it, unless you compile your own > kernel. This was pretty much the Soft Updates status, until > recently. I'm not sure that is true. You can always load a kld from loader(8). Anyway, any serious user of FreeBSD recompiles the kernel to fine tune it. It is not a significant restriction. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@kzinti.bsdconspiracy.net Acabou o hipismo-arte. Mas a desculpa brasileira mais ouvida em Sydney e' que nao tem mais cavalo bobo por ai'. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 5:33: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8EDA37B503; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:32:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA26720; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 06:27:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAf5aii0; Mon Feb 26 06:27:26 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA16827; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 06:32:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102261332.GAA16827@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system To: dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:32:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jar@integratus.com (Jack Rusher), tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), sam@errno.com (Sam Leffler), zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhiui Zhang), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3A9A436B.821D0B01@newsguy.com> from "Daniel C. Sobral" at Feb 26, 2001 08:52:11 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > I have been wondering about this legal issue lately. What is the law > > > with regards to implementing XFS as a KLM for FreeBSD & shipping the > > > source in contrib? It won't help people who are trying to make > > > commercial products with embedded FreeBSD, but it might be useful for > > > sysadmins. > > > > You won't be able to boot from it, unless you compile your own > > kernel. This was pretty much the Soft Updates status, until > > recently. > > I'm not sure that is true. You can always load a kld from loader(8). Not from an XFS root filesystem, you can't. > Anyway, any serious user of FreeBSD recompiles the kernel to fine tune > it. It is not a significant restriction. It makes initial installation a pain; I guess every serious user of FreeBSD will have more than one machine, and do their builds on one (FFS) and installs on the other(s) (XFS)? This much pain would make it unlikely to be used, except for people needing to mount their Linux or SGI disks, or in very big installations. I see the value of XFS as providing the same FS for various operating systems, and thereby setting a standard. That value is significantly diminished, if FreeBSD has pain that other systems don't. Frankly, there's nothing that a GPL license prevents, in terms of preventing a company from productizing the XFS alone. I could easily port it to FreeBSD, SVR4, Solaris, SunOS, AIX, AmigaDOS, Windows, etc. -- basically, anywhere I've written a file system before. The GPL doesn't prevent sales from happening in these markets, because, unlike Linux and FreeBSD, having or not having the source code is not so much a barrier as needing the tools and skills to build something out of it which will work. In Linux and FreeBSD, almost every user is a code monkey; in a commercial OS, until recently, the source code was unknown and unknowable, and even when it's available for a licensing fee (e.g. Solaris), there really hasn't been a community grown up around it to hack it. I don't understand why SGI doesn't just license the code under a license that restricts its use to a named set of operating systems, and their derivatives. As it is now, the code is protected from the richest supply of unpaid FS hackers that are available, and _not_ protected from being productized commercially, and the results sold in competition with SGI. Kind of ironic: even the LGPL would let it be usable to FreeBSD (ar + ranlib + ability to relink). Note that IBM's release of the OS/2 JFS under the GPL throws it in the same position (replace "AIX" in the second paragraph up from this one with "IRIX"). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 5:35:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7753837B401; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:35:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA06380; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 06:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA9Naitm; Mon Feb 26 06:28:59 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA16904; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 06:35:11 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102261335.GAA16904@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system To: dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:35:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jar@integratus.com (Jack Rusher), tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), sam@errno.com (Sam Leffler), zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhiui Zhang), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3A9A436B.821D0B01@newsguy.com> from "Daniel C. Sobral" at Feb 26, 2001 08:52:11 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org PS: > Anyway, any serious user of FreeBSD recompiles the kernel to fine tune > it. It is not a significant restriction. Yet we don't see the serious FS hackers leaping at doing a port of the code, when their work will end up released under the GPL, and not able to be shipped linked into a FreeBSD kernel shipped on a CDROM, or sold on an Internet appliance, set top box, embedded system, etc., due to license conflict. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 5:52: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8478237B401 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:52:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id f1QDq0u18266 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:52:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id OAA57161 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:52:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:52:00 +0100 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RMS supports Vorbis switch to BSD license? Message-ID: <20010226145200.Q42463@lpt.ens.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to http://www.vorbis.com/press/20010226.txt With the Beta 4 release, the Ogg Vorbis libraries have moved to the BSD license. The change from LGPL to BSD was made to enable the use of Ogg Vorbis in all forms of software and hardware. Jack Moffitt says, "We are changing the license in response to feedback from many parties. It has become clear to us that adoption of Ogg Vorbis will be accelerated even further by the use of a less restrictive license that is friendlier toward proprietary software and hardware systems. We want everyone to be able to use Ogg Vorbis." In response to the change of license, Richard Stallman of the Free Software Foundation says, "I agree. It is wise to make some of the Ogg Vorbis code available for use in proprietary software, so that commercial companies doing proprietary software will use it, and help Vorbis succeed in competition with other formats that would be restricted against our use." -R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 7:35:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [209.0.55.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1510137B491; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:35:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 3D5777567; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:35:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6781D89; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:35:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:35:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system In-Reply-To: <200102261332.GAA16827@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Terry Lambert wrote: :I see the value of XFS as providing the same FS for various :operating systems, and thereby setting a standard. That value :is significantly diminished, if FreeBSD has pain that other :systems don't. As someone who spends the majority of his time on SGI hardware, let's not forget that XFS is just plain -fast- as well as reliable and (after XFS Rollup #6 anyway) stable. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 9: 5:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6A437B4EC for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:05:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26669; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:04:39 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010226100245.04c192c0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:04:29 -0700 To: Rahul Siddharthan , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: RMS supports Vorbis switch to BSD license? In-Reply-To: <20010226145200.Q42463@lpt.ens.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:52 AM 2/26/2001, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > In response to the change of license, Richard Stallman of the Free > Software Foundation says, "I agree. It is wise to make some of the > Ogg Vorbis code available for use in proprietary software, so that > commercial companies doing proprietary software will use it, and help > Vorbis succeed in competition with other formats that would be > restricted against our use." Betcha Stallman hopes to "embrace and extend" the code into the FSF's hoard of software by coming out with a "GNU" version somewhere down the road. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 9:52:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from seagull.cpinternet.com (mail.cpinternet.com [204.220.140.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DD4A37B4EC for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:52:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ocean@ecenet.com) Received: from ecenet.com (pr-5300-1-fa210.ecenet.com [209.240.250.210]) by seagull.cpinternet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA29667 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:52:17 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3A9A9924.57185C26@ecenet.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:57:57 -0600 From: Porter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: web site: ms vs freebsd References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've moved this to -chat because it's no longer a question. The discussion is Microsoft's web site versus FreeBSD's web site. Most people are attacking with blind pride saying that Microsoft's web site either A) sucks or B) is better only because of millions of dollars. I took a quick glance at microsoft's web site, and it's not too bad. I was actually thinking that FreeBSD's web site wasn't altogether too good anyway--no offense intended to those who designed it. One of the main arguments for keeping it the way it is is because of internet viewers' differences, people citing that web sites look like garbage under certain viewers. Am I just naive or are the *viewers* bad? I'm not saying we should all base the internet on how IE or Netscape says webpages should look, but you have to admit, they are big influences, and why should we not have web pages with a little flash just because we don't want to "follow the leader"? I'm not suggesting we have dancing elephants or flashing text, and I'm no professional web page developer, but I was thinking of doing a little modifications to the web site and posting it to see what people think. Anyone back me up on this? I find the links on our page "small" You have to read the entire page to find information. That's not what the www is about. Look at other sites. The whole preface of FreeBSD should be located on a link from the main page. The left sidebar of how to find help could use a little spoofing too. I don't know, like I said I'm no professional, but from my years of web surfing I can say that our site doesn't have a lot to make you keep reading. Thanks for letting me rant, Michael Porter ocean@ecenet.com Dominic Marks wrote: > IMO FreeBSD site is much better than the sprawling mass that is > microsoft.com. Ever been the MS.com in a non-IE browser, ever paid for > FreeBSD? > > Think before you mail. > > Dominic > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Duraid > Sent: 26 February 2001 10:14 > To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: web site: ms vs freebsd > > why is microsoft web site much nicer than the freebsd one? > > Duraid > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 10:28:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guru.mired.org (okc-65-26-235-186.mmcable.com [65.26.235.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 71F2837B491 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:28:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: (qmail 5667 invoked by uid 100); 26 Feb 2001 18:28:50 -0000 From: Mike Meyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15002.41058.835342.650046@guru.mired.org> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:28:50 -0600 To: Porter Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: web site: ms vs freebsd In-Reply-To: <3A9A9924.57185C26@ecenet.com> References: <3A9A9924.57185C26@ecenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.89 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Porter types: > I've moved this to -chat because it's no longer a question. The > discussion is Microsoft's web site versus FreeBSD's web site. Most people > are attacking with blind pride saying that Microsoft's web site either A) > sucks or B) is better only because of millions of dollars. Well, I just looked at MS's web site, and I'd have to say it sucks. I I have to scroll left/right to read the top menus (pretty much everyone agrees that left/right scrolling is the single worst thing you can do on a web site). The text is long, skinny column down the center, barely 20 characters wide. Even though narrow columns of text are generally easier to read, the generally accepted lower bound is around 35 characters. Going from my favorite browser to Netscape, things aren't much better. I get a left/right scroll bar, but there's no text on the right when I scroll it. What's odd is that about a fifth of the browser window on right is empty, except for the nav menu at the very bottom of the page. The main text is still a very narrow column, though it's not quite as bad as before - but it is small enough that I don't want to read it. There are pictures of text - complete paragraphs - which are painfully small because I'm using a 100dpi monitor, and not the ~70 dpi they probably designed for. > I took a quick glance at microsoft's web site, and it's not too bad. > I was actually thinking that FreeBSD's web site wasn't altogether too good > anyway--no offense intended to those who designed it. One of the main > arguments for keeping it the way it is is because of internet viewers' > differences, people citing that web sites look like garbage under certain > viewers. Am I just naive or are the *viewers* bad? If you define bad as "buggy, and fail to follow published standards", then yup, the viewers - at least the ones from MicroSoft or Netscape - are bad. If you define bad as "doesn't render things exactly like MSIE (or your favorite browser)", then all the viewers that aren't bad as defined above are bad. However, it makes equal sense to define bad for an operating system as "doesn't run Windows binaries". Both statements assume that everyone wants what the market leader provides, and that anything that doesn't provide exactly that is in some way broken. > I'm not saying we should all base the internet on how IE or Netscape says > webpages should look, but you have to admit, they are big influences, and > why should we not have web pages with a little flash just because we don't > want to "follow the leader"? No reason. In fact, anyone who tells you "I can't make it work in other browsers because I want a little flash" doesn't know what they're talking about. What makes a web site not work for everyone (and I get paid to help web site designers do that) isn't what you put on the page, it's what you fail to put on the page. > I'm not suggesting we have dancing elephants or flashing text, and I'm no > professional web page developer, but I was thinking of doing a little > modifications to the web site and posting it to see what people think. > Anyone back me up on this? I'd say that's an excellent idea. The best way to change things about FreeBSD is to change them yourself, then try and sell them back to the community. That's true for code, documentation - or the web site. Go for it. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 11:19:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B662137B491 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:19:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA7300; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:24:32 -0800 Message-ID: <3A9AAC52.644CFC74@acuson.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:19:46 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Sutter Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD licence vs GPL References: <046d01c09bd0$1e8bdfc0$0300a8c0@wilma> <007101c09be9$04ff4f60$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <20010221023316.A49953@mollari.cthul.hu> <3A982563.407C41F2@softweyr.com> <20010225162933.T656@klapaucius.zer0.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gregory Sutter wrote: > Well, it's not exactly Terry's theory. I first remember reading > about the Principle of Enlightened Self-Interest in a Doc Smith > novel, probably "Subspace Explorers". Enlightened Self Interest goes all the way back to the Renaissance. It was probably first codified as an economic principle in Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations". David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 11:20:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1B637B4EC; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:20:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p13-dn01kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [211.0.245.14]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id EAA00461; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:20:17 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3A9AABC7.60BA75EB@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:17:27 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Jack Rusher , Sam Leffler , Zhiui Zhang , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system References: <200102261332.GAA16827@usr05.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I'm not sure that is true. You can always load a kld from loader(8). > > Not from an XFS root filesystem, you can't. It is so very fortunate, then, that neither loader nor the kld need be in the root filesystem, eh? :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@kzinti.bsdconspiracy.net Acabou o hipismo-arte. Mas a desculpa brasileira mais ouvida em Sydney e' que nao tem mais cavalo bobo por ai'. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 11:52:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from riker.skynet.be (riker.skynet.be [195.238.3.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A3C37B401; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:52:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.126] ([194.78.241.126]) by riker.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.10) with ESMTP id f1QJptq28242; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:51:55 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200102261332.GAA16827@usr05.primenet.com> References: <200102261332.GAA16827@usr05.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:41:47 +0100 To: Terry Lambert , dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral) From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jar@integratus.com (Jack Rusher), tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), sam@errno.com (Sam Leffler), zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhiui Zhang), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 1:32 PM +0000 2/26/01, Terry Lambert wrote: >> I'm not sure that is true. You can always load a kld from loader(8). > > Not from an XFS root filesystem, you can't. I'm confused -- why do you make this statement? Is it because of the GPL license that the XFS code is released under? If so, then would something like the LGPL change that issue? -- ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 19:43:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A3F37B684; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:43:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07434; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:37:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAs7aivo; Mon Feb 26 20:37:09 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA10733; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:42:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102270342.UAA10733@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system To: dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 03:42:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jar@integratus.com (Jack Rusher), sam@errno.com (Sam Leffler), zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhiui Zhang), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3A9AABC7.60BA75EB@newsguy.com> from "Daniel C. Sobral" at Feb 27, 2001 04:17:27 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > I'm not sure that is true. You can always load a kld from loader(8). > > > > Not from an XFS root filesystem, you can't. > > It is so very fortunate, then, that neither loader nor the kld need be > in the root filesystem, eh? :-) Great, the most important part of my system has to be on some other FS type because otherwise I can't boot. I would prefer to have my boot loader, kernel, and modules live on the safest FS available to me. If that's not XFS, why use it? If it is XFS, then why use something else, except for the license making me? Resizing the boot partition to add more modules and/or kernel generations at a later date would be right out, after laying everything out. I'm not saying that that arrangement can't be made to work from an installation perspective, just that it's a ridiculous number of hoops to force someone through on the pretense of a free license. I don't see the people leaping forward to volunteer their effort under those terms. I've stated my terms. I've made suggestions on how they can protect what they want to protect, and pointed out that they don't have that level of protection now. I also see the GFS people bending over backward to accomodate us, and don't see significant benefit to XFS compared to GFS, and particularly with regard to the XFS code for Linux being incapable of storage area clustering, due to some code that SGI only has on their boxes. I've already thrown 20k of patches at the GFS people as a show of good faith; if they follow through, I fully expect that a port can happen very quickly. I might even do a Windows port, just to be annoying, since I fully understand the IFSMgr code, and have the necessary tools and SDK to do the work. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 19:47:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6516937B491; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:47:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08620; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:41:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAegaWWq; Mon Feb 26 20:41:15 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA10815; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:46:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102270346.UAA10815@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system To: brad.knowles@skynet.be (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 03:46:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jar@integratus.com (Jack Rusher), sam@errno.com (Sam Leffler), zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhiui Zhang), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brad Knowles" at Feb 26, 2001 08:41:47 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> I'm not sure that is true. You can always load a kld from loader(8). > > > > Not from an XFS root filesystem, you can't. > > I'm confused -- why do you make this statement? Is it because of > the GPL license that the XFS code is released under? If so, then > would something like the LGPL change that issue? Because you can't ditribute a FreeBSD kernel with GPL'ed code linked into it legally, due to the GPL disallowing distribution of the code with non-GPL'ed code. Yes, changing the license to the LGPL would fix the problem. Neither the LGPL nor the GPL really address the concerns about productization that are attributed to SGI, however; the LGPL much less so. My understanding is that they are worried about third party competition cannibalizing their market using their own code to do it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 19:52:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2259437B401; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17720; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:21:56 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200102270342.UAA10733@usr05.primenet.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:21:56 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, (Zhiui Zhang) , (Sam Leffler) , (Jack Rusher) , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, (Daniel C. Sobral) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27-Feb-01 Terry Lambert wrote: > Great, the most important part of my system has to be on some > other FS type because otherwise I can't boot. And, err, how hard is it to add support to the loader for this? It's read only which makes it simpler, and the code is well structured.. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 20: 7:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 341E937B491; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:07:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01053; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:03:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA7VaO.b; Mon Feb 26 21:03:53 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA11556; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:06:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102270406.VAA11556@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system To: doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:06:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu ((Zhiui Zhang)), sam@errno.com ((Sam Leffler)), jar@integratus.com ((Jack Rusher)), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, dcs@newsguy.com ((Daniel C. Sobral)) In-Reply-To: from "Daniel O'Connor" at Feb 27, 2001 02:21:56 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Great, the most important part of my system has to be on some > > other FS type because otherwise I can't boot. > > And, err, how hard is it to add support to the loader for this? > > It's read only which makes it simpler, and the code is well structured.. Not hard at all, if you are willing and able to GPL the loader to make linking it with GPL'ed R/O XFS code legal to distribute. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 20:13:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from prism.flugsvamp.com (cb58709-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.17.241.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C4A537B401; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:13:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@flugsvamp.com) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by prism.flugsvamp.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f1R4BW838396; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:11:32 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jlemon) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:11:32 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, "(Zhiui Zhang)" , "(Sam Leffler)" , "(Jack Rusher)" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, "(Daniel C. Sobral)" Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system Message-ID: <20010226221132.C20550@prism.flugsvamp.com> References: <200102270406.VAA11556@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200102270406.VAA11556@usr05.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 04:06:59AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Great, the most important part of my system has to be on some > > > other FS type because otherwise I can't boot. > > > > And, err, how hard is it to add support to the loader for this? > > > > It's read only which makes it simpler, and the code is well structured.. > > Not hard at all, if you are willing and able to GPL the loader > to make linking it with GPL'ed R/O XFS code legal to distribute. Or if you simply _WRITE_ some new code to read the XFS filesystem. Gee, if our loader groks ext2fs, it must be GPL'd, right? -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 20:13:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C3CF37B491; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:13:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18144; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:43:02 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200102270406.VAA11556@usr05.primenet.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:43:02 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system Cc: ((Daniel C. Sobral)) , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, ((Jack Rusher)) , ((Sam Leffler)) , ((Zhiui Zhang)) , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27-Feb-01 Terry Lambert wrote: > > It's read only which makes it simpler, and the code is well structured.. > Not hard at all, if you are willing and able to GPL the loader > to make linking it with GPL'ed R/O XFS code legal to distribute. Re-write the code in question.. Not the nicest solution though. Or even an option to link to it that isn't defined by default. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 20:17: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25C1837B491; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:17:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04362; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:16:49 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010226211548.00bd65d0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:16:42 -0700 To: Terry Lambert , dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jar@integratus.com (Jack Rusher), tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), sam@errno.com (Sam Leffler), zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhiui Zhang), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200102261332.GAA16827@usr05.primenet.com> References: <3A9A436B.821D0B01@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:32 AM 2/26/2001, Terry Lambert wrote: >Note that IBM's release of the OS/2 JFS under the GPL throws >it in the same position (replace "AIX" in the second paragraph >up from this one with "IRIX"). It was tragic that this happened. IBM, of all companies, should have known better than to stamp the GPL on its code. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 26 22:20:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE5D037B67D; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:20:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA05756; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:15:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAw0aykl; Mon Feb 26 23:15:27 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA13824; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:20:27 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102270620.XAA13824@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system To: jlemon@flugsvamp.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:20:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu ("(Zhiui Zhang)"), sam@errno.com ("(Sam Leffler)"), jar@integratus.com ("(Jack Rusher)"), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, dcs@newsguy.com ("(Daniel C. Sobral)") In-Reply-To: <20010226221132.C20550@prism.flugsvamp.com> from "Jonathan Lemon" at Feb 26, 2001 10:11:32 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Not hard at all, if you are willing and able to GPL the loader > > to make linking it with GPL'ed R/O XFS code legal to distribute. > > Or if you simply _WRITE_ some new code to read the XFS filesystem. > Gee, if our loader groks ext2fs, it must be GPL'd, right? "Donations of code welcome". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 0:32:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F005C37B71A; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:32:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p22-dn02kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [211.0.245.87]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id RAA29708; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:32:34 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3A9B6576.5C8572C8@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:29:42 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brad Knowles Cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Jack Rusher , Sam Leffler , Zhiui Zhang , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system References: <200102261332.GAA16827@usr05.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brad Knowles wrote: > > At 1:32 PM +0000 2/26/01, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >> I'm not sure that is true. You can always load a kld from loader(8). > > > > Not from an XFS root filesystem, you can't. > > I'm confused -- why do you make this statement? Is it because of > the GPL license that the XFS code is released under? If so, then > would something like the LGPL change that issue? Loader(8) is a static binary. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@kzinti.bsdconspiracy.net Acabou o hipismo-arte. Mas a desculpa brasileira mais ouvida em Sydney e' que nao tem mais cavalo bobo por ai'. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 1:46:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6302437B718; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:46:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from [62.49.251.130] (helo=herring.nlsystems.com) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14Xghr-000FD4-0A; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:46:07 +0000 Received: from salmon.nlsystems.com (salmon [10.0.0.3]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1R9k7129912; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:46:07 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:46:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Jack Rusher , Sam Leffler , Zhiui Zhang , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system In-Reply-To: <200102270342.UAA10733@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > I'm not sure that is true. You can always load a kld from loader(8). > > > > > > Not from an XFS root filesystem, you can't. > > > > It is so very fortunate, then, that neither loader nor the kld need be > > in the root filesystem, eh? :-) > > Great, the most important part of my system has to be on some > other FS type because otherwise I can't boot. > > I would prefer to have my boot loader, kernel, and modules live > on the safest FS available to me. If that's not XFS, why use > it? If it is XFS, then why use something else, except for the > license making me? Terry, if it really matters that XFS root filesystems are bootable, then someone will write an XFS reader module for libstand. Personally, I don't think it will ever matter that much. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Phone: +44 20 8348 6160 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 1:46:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CABC37B719; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:46:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from [62.49.251.130] (helo=herring.nlsystems.com) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14XgiG-000FHQ-0A; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:46:32 +0000 Received: from salmon.nlsystems.com (salmon [10.0.0.3]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1R9kU129916; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:46:30 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:46:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: "Daniel O'Connor" Cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu, sam@errno.com, jar@integratus.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, dcs@newsguy.com Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 27-Feb-01 Terry Lambert wrote: > > Great, the most important part of my system has to be on some > > other FS type because otherwise I can't boot. > > And, err, how hard is it to add support to the loader for this? > > It's read only which makes it simpler, and the code is well structured.. Very easy. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Phone: +44 20 8348 6160 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 4:47:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D23737B71B for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:47:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 14XjXc-000GCD-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:47:44 +0000 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f1RCli568160 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:47:44 GMT (envelope-from jcm) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:47:44 +0000 From: j mckitrick To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FINALLY, a cheap Unix box to compete with NT Message-ID: <20010227124743.A68101@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Despite the mixed feelings some may have about Sun, I was glad to see they are now marketing a new workstation that runs both NT and Solaris, for under $1000 US. I have asked the question before, What can a workstation do that NT cannot do these days? There wasn't much of an answer, or if there was, Unix was still losing ground in those remaining fields. But this just might turn the tables. What do you think? Jonathon -- Tech support: Try this. Arrange the parts in neat piles. Stand on your chair until you can see over your cubicle walls. Now shout "Does anybody know how to read a manual?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 5: 6:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903DE37B727 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 05:06:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rootman@xmission.com) Received: from [166.70.9.16] (helo=blackmirror.xmission.com) by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14Xjq1-0007jZ-00; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:06:45 -0700 From: Joe Warner To: j mckitrick , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FINALLY, a cheap Unix box to compete with NT Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 05:50:20 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" References: <20010227124743.A68101@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> In-Reply-To: <20010227124743.A68101@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01022706063701.00247@blackmirror.xmission.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, j mckitrick wrote: > Despite the mixed feelings some may have about Sun, I was glad to see they > are now marketing a new workstation that runs both NT and Solaris, for under > $1000 US. > > I have asked the question before, What can a workstation do that NT cannot > do these days? There wasn't much of an answer, or if there was, Unix was > still losing ground in those remaining fields. But this just might turn the > tables. > > What do you think? > > Jonathon > -- > Tech support: Try this. Arrange the parts in neat piles. Stand on your > chair until you can see over your cubicle walls. Now shout "Does anybody > know how to read a manual?" > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- I think it's good that Sun is making such a product available. However, the remaining difference with UNIX and NT is the learning curve factor. Even though NT is less plug-and-play than WIN98/ME, it's still more plug-and-play than UNIX; thus the reason for the learning curve. Most people used to using M$, are also used to having things done for them and experience a sudden shock when exposed to any flavor of UNIX. It's still a good idea to have a machine that runs both, though. That way, when you're pressed for time or feeling lazy, you can boot into WIN and boot into UNIX when you want to actually use your brain. 8^) Cheers Joe You know you're in trouble when your wife asks you; "Would you like me any better if I had a square face?" -me To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 6:48:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from prism.flugsvamp.com (cb58709-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.17.241.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA05537B71A; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:48:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@flugsvamp.com) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by prism.flugsvamp.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f1REkwE57526; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:46:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jlemon) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:46:58 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Terry Lambert Cc: Jonathan Lemon , "Daniel O'Connor" , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, "\"(Zhiui Zhang)\"" , "\"(Sam Leffler)\"" , "\"(Jack Rusher)\"" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, "\"(Daniel C. Sobral)\"" Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system Message-ID: <20010227084658.D20550@prism.flugsvamp.com> References: <20010226221132.C20550@prism.flugsvamp.com> <200102270620.XAA13824@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200102270620.XAA13824@usr05.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 06:20:26AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Not hard at all, if you are willing and able to GPL the loader > > > to make linking it with GPL'ed R/O XFS code legal to distribute. > > > > Or if you simply _WRITE_ some new code to read the XFS filesystem. > > Gee, if our loader groks ext2fs, it must be GPL'd, right? > > "Donations of code welcome". Sure. Just as soon as there is an XFS filesystem to boot from, of course. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 10: 0:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from riker.skynet.be (riker.skynet.be [195.238.3.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9CEB37B719; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:00:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by riker.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f1RI00o29145; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:00:00 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200102270346.UAA10815@usr05.primenet.com> References: <200102270346.UAA10815@usr05.primenet.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:48:22 +0100 To: Terry Lambert From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jar@integratus.com (Jack Rusher), sam@errno.com (Sam Leffler), zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhiui Zhang), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 3:46 AM +0000 2/27/01, Terry Lambert wrote: > Because you can't ditribute a FreeBSD kernel with GPL'ed code > linked into it legally, due to the GPL disallowing distribution > of the code with non-GPL'ed code. > > Yes, changing the license to the LGPL would fix the problem. Ahh, okay. I haven't been watching the list very closely the last couple of days, and I had somehow come to the mistaken conclusion that your statement was made on the basis of technical reasons as opposed to license issues, and I just couldn't see how there would be technical problems with what you were proposing. Thanks for the clarification! -- ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 10:19: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C289137B719 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:19:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id f1RIJ3u79373 ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:19:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id TAA25001 ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:19:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:19:02 +0100 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: j mckitrick Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FINALLY, a cheap Unix box to compete with NT Message-ID: <20010227191902.O98921@lpt.ens.fr> Mail-Followup-To: j mckitrick , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010227124743.A68101@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010227124743.A68101@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 12:47:44PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I have asked the question before, What can a workstation do that NT cannot > do these days? There wasn't much of an answer, or if there was, Unix was > still losing ground in those remaining fields. But this just might turn the > tables. Why, what can this workstation do that NT cannot do? A more interesting question to me is -- what can this workstation do that a FreeBSD PC can't do? It seems to me that one can get a comparably powerful machine for a lot cheaper in x86-land (ok, not 64 bit, but does that matter on the desktop?) and, between commercial unix and FreeBSD, I definitely know which I want on *my* desktop. R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 10:32:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from po4.glue.umd.edu (po4.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20B437B719 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:32:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from howardjp@well.com) Received: from y.glue.umd.edu (IDENT:root@y.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.68]) by po4.glue.umd.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f1RIWFb04986; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:32:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from y.glue.umd.edu (IDENT:sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by y.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA02330; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:32:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by y.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02326; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:32:14 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: y.glue.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:32:14 -0500 (EST) From: James Howard X-Sender: howardjp@y.glue.umd.edu To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: j mckitrick , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FINALLY, a cheap Unix box to compete with NT In-Reply-To: <20010227191902.O98921@lpt.ens.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > A more interesting question to me is -- what can this And a still more interesting quesiton is: When will FreeBSD run on it? :) Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 10:44:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36D5637B718; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:44:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1RIiE730029; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:44:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102271844.f1RIiE730029@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Brad Knowles Cc: Terry Lambert , dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jar@integratus.com (Jack Rusher), sam@errno.com (Sam Leffler), zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhiui Zhang), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:44:14 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brad Knowles wrote: > At 3:46 AM +0000 2/27/01, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Because you can't ditribute a FreeBSD kernel with GPL'ed code > > linked into it legally, due to the GPL disallowing distribution > > of the code with non-GPL'ed code. > > > > Yes, changing the license to the LGPL would fix the problem. > > Ahh, okay. I haven't been watching the list very closely the > last couple of days, and I had somehow come to the mistaken > conclusion that your statement was made on the basis of technical > reasons as opposed to license issues, and I just couldn't see how > there would be technical problems with what you were proposing. > > Thanks for the clarification! loader(8)'s requirements are so radically different to "real" file system code that no real code sharing is done. msdos, ufs, ext2fs etc are all essentially microscopic dumb simple readers. There is no way SGI's XFS would ever be linked in, regardless of license. If it was done, it would be a simple dumb low level reader that was done from the ground up, just like the rest of the fs stubs in there. ie: the SGI XFS license is irrelevant. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 11:30:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9B8737B719 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:30:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fanf@dotat.at) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.20 #3) id 14XpoJ-0003vH-00; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:29:23 +0000 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:29:23 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system Message-ID: <20010227192923.I609@hand.dotat.at> References: <200102270346.UAA10815@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102270346.UAA10815@usr05.primenet.com> Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > >Because you can't ditribute a FreeBSD kernel with GPL'ed code >linked into it legally, due to the GPL disallowing distribution >of the code with non-GPL'ed code. That is incorrect. The restriction is on distributing GPLed code under a licence that includes more restrictions than the GPL; since the BSD licence does not include restrictions outside the scope of the GPL you can combine code under the two licences freely and distribute the result under the GPL. Tony. -- f.a.n.finch fanf@covalent.net dot@dotat.at FINISTERRE SOLE: NORTHWESTERLY 6 TO GALE 8, OCCASIONALLY SEVERE GALE 9. RAIN THEN SQUALLY SHOWERS. MODERATE OR GOOD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 11:45:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F3237B71A; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:45:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25104; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:38:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA_vaWWW; Tue Feb 27 12:38:38 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29013; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:44:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102271944.MAA29013@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system To: dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:44:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jar@integratus.com (Jack Rusher), sam@errno.com (Sam Leffler), zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhiui Zhang), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Feb 27, 2001 09:46:07 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Great, the most important part of my system has to be on some > > other FS type because otherwise I can't boot. > > > > I would prefer to have my boot loader, kernel, and modules live > > on the safest FS available to me. If that's not XFS, why use > > it? If it is XFS, then why use something else, except for the > > license making me? > > Terry, if it really matters that XFS root filesystems are bootable, then > someone will write an XFS reader module for libstand. Personally, I don't > think it will ever matter that much. Me neither; as long as the pain threshold is so high, XFS will not be ported by those with the ability, nor used by the majority of those without. PS: This is not the "XFS-advocacy" list. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 12:17:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp10.phx.gblx.net (smtp10.phx.gblx.net [206.165.6.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF96A37B718 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:17:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp10.phx.gblx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA72902; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:16:59 -0700 Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp10.phx.gblx.net, id smtpdiGAo7a; Tue Feb 27 13:16:57 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA00440; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:17:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102272017.NAA00440@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system To: dot@dotat.at (Tony Finch) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:15:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010227192923.I609@hand.dotat.at> from "Tony Finch" at Feb 27, 2001 07:29:23 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >Because you can't ditribute a FreeBSD kernel with GPL'ed code > >linked into it legally, due to the GPL disallowing distribution > >of the code with non-GPL'ed code. > > That is incorrect. The restriction is on distributing GPLed code under > a licence that includes more restrictions than the GPL; since the BSD > licence does not include restrictions outside the scope of the GPL you > can combine code under the two licences freely and distribute the > result under the GPL. FYI: IBMs lawyers disagree with you. Please compare sections 11 and 12 of the GPL with the BSD liability disclaimer, in the context of section 6 sentence 3 of the GPL ("You may not impose further restrictions..."). http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html http://www.xfree86.org/3.3.6/COPYRIGHT2.html#5 Realize also that not all of FreeBSD is under the 3 clause license, and that embedded systems manufacturers frequently licensedrivers for which source can not be legally distributed to third parties (which would put the code in violation of section 6 sentence 2 of the GPL). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 12:19:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mother.ludd.luth.se (mother.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B402737B719 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:19:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pantzer@ludd.luth.se) Received: from speedy.ludd.luth.se (speedy.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.164]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09344; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:11:48 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200102272011.VAA09344@mother.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: j mckitrick Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FINALLY, a cheap Unix box to compete with NT In-Reply-To: Message from j mckitrick of "Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:47:44 GMT." <20010227124743.A68101@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:11:03 +0100 From: Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Despite the mixed feelings some may have about Sun, I was glad to see they > are now marketing a new workstation that runs both NT and Solaris, for under > $1000 US. No, you have to get the SunPCi coporocessor card to be able to run NT on it, that card is a PC on a PCI card. That will get you over $1000 US. You will probably also need more than 128Mb RAM... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 12:20:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E5A37B719; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA29329; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:16:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAe3aWf5; Tue Feb 27 13:16:50 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA00694; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:19:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102272019.NAA00694@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system To: jlemon@flugsvamp.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:19:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), jlemon@flugsvamp.com (Jonathan Lemon), doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (""(Zhiui Zhang)""), sam@errno.com (""(Sam Leffler)""), jar@integratus.com (""(Jack Rusher)""), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, dcs@newsguy.com (""(Daniel C. Sobral)"") In-Reply-To: <20010227084658.D20550@prism.flugsvamp.com> from "Jonathan Lemon" at Feb 27, 2001 08:46:58 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > Not hard at all, if you are willing and able to GPL the loader > > > > to make linking it with GPL'ed R/O XFS code legal to distribute. > > > > > > Or if you simply _WRITE_ some new code to read the XFS filesystem. > > > Gee, if our loader groks ext2fs, it must be GPL'd, right? > > > > "Donations of code welcome". > > Sure. Just as soon as there is an XFS filesystem to boot from, of course. Do I have to say it? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 12:36:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE8537B718 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:36:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fanf@dotat.at) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.20 #3) id 14XqqP-00048R-00; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:35:37 +0000 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:35:37 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system Message-ID: <20010227203537.L609@hand.dotat.at> References: <20010227192923.I609@hand.dotat.at> <200102272017.NAA00440@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102272017.NAA00440@usr05.primenet.com> Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > >Please compare sections 11 and 12 of the GPL with the BSD >liability disclaimer, in the context of section 6 sentence 3 >of the GPL ("You may not impose further restrictions..."). Hmm, well I fail to spot the differences but then IANAL. >Realize also that not all of FreeBSD is under the 3 clause >license, and that embedded systems manufacturers frequently >licensedrivers for which source can not be legally distributed >to third parties (which would put the code in violation of >section 6 sentence 2 of the GPL). Well they have that problem anyway. I was talking purely about linking BSD and GPL code because of your comment about "the GPL disallowing distribution of the code with non-GPL'ed code" which AFAIK is wrong. Tony. -- f.a.n.finch fanf@covalent.net dot@dotat.at CROMARTY: NORTH 5 TO 7. SNOW SHOWERS. GOOD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 12:42:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 344B737B71B; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:42:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from riel@conectiva.com.br) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1RKfnb10855; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:41:49 -0300 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:41:43 -0300 (BRST) From: Rik van Riel X-X-Sender: To: Brett Glass Cc: Terry Lambert , "Daniel C. Sobral" , , Jack Rusher , Sam Leffler , Zhiui Zhang , Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010226211548.00bd65d0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Brett Glass wrote: > At 06:32 AM 2/26/2001, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >Note that IBM's release of the OS/2 JFS under the GPL throws > >it in the same position (replace "AIX" in the second paragraph > >up from this one with "IRIX"). > > It was tragic that this happened. IBM, of all companies, should > have known better than to stamp the GPL on its code. The GPL makes a lot of business sense: 1. everybody can include your code in products and sell it (just like the BSD license) 2. everybody can change your code and sell the changed version (just like the BSD license) 3. however, improvements to the code will be available to everbody; nobody will be able to take away IBM's market using an improved version of their product -- IBM itself will also have the improved code (different from BSD) Can you really blame them for chosing this option ? [Don't take me wrong, I think the BSD license is great for many things ... but this just doesn't seem to be one of them after looking at the business risk for a few seconds] regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 14:32:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FB3837B71C for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:32:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1RMS4l86934; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:28:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:31:22 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: Rik van Riel Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system Cc: Zhiui Zhang , Sam Leffler , Jack Rusher , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org, "Daniel C. Sobral" , Terry Lambert , Brett Glass Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ freebsd-fs removed ] On 27-Feb-01 Rik van Riel wrote: > On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Brett Glass wrote: >> At 06:32 AM 2/26/2001, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >> >Note that IBM's release of the OS/2 JFS under the GPL throws >> >it in the same position (replace "AIX" in the second paragraph >> >up from this one with "IRIX"). >> >> It was tragic that this happened. IBM, of all companies, should >> have known better than to stamp the GPL on its code. > > The GPL makes a lot of business sense: > > 1. everybody can include your code in products and sell > it (just like the BSD license) > > 2. everybody can change your code and sell the changed > version (just like the BSD license) > > 3. however, improvements to the code will be available to > everbody; nobody will be able to take away IBM's market > using an improved version of their product -- IBM itself > will also have the improved code (different from BSD) > > Can you really blame them for chosing this option ? 4. You can't sell any improvements you make (since anyone will be able to just download them, so why would they bother paying for it), so all your programmers become deadweight as they are not earning any income. Solution? Fire all the deadwood (i.e. the non-incoome generating programmers.) Yeah, this is a business model that I as a programmer _really_ want to promote because, hey, food will just magically appear on my table because people will provide it for me out of the goodness of their hearts in appreciation for my code. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 14:38:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC5FE37B718; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:38:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from riel@conectiva.com.br) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1RMd4Y12676; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:39:04 -0300 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:39:04 -0300 (BRST) From: Rik van Riel X-X-Sender: To: John Baldwin Cc: Zhiui Zhang , Sam Leffler , Jack Rusher , , "Daniel C. Sobral" , Terry Lambert , Brett Glass Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, John Baldwin wrote: > > The GPL makes a lot of business sense: > 4. You can't sell any improvements you make (since anyone will > be able to just download them, so why would they bother paying > for it), so all your programmers become deadweight as they > are not earning any income. > Solution? Fire all the deadwood (i.e. the non-incoome > generating programmers.) > > Yeah, this is a business model that I as a programmer _really_ > want to promote because, hey, food will just magically appear > on my table because people will provide it for me out of the > goodness of their hearts in appreciation for my code. I haven't seen this happen in practice. I can really only see this occur in a situation when the software is finished, in the sense that it is perfect and doesn't need any further improvements (yeah right). As a programmer of the Linux kernel (GPL license) I am getting about 2 to 3 job offers a week, even though most people know they don't need to bother because I'm very happy here; despite the fact that my code will be available to them anyway. The reason? They want to see different kinds of improvements in the code, they want the code customised for whatever it is they are doing, etc... Your argument is a good one and it would be persuasive if I saw it happen in practice ... but I don't. regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 22: 1:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from devil1.arpnetworks.com (devil1.arpnetworks.com [206.171.92.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BFF4B37B724 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 22:01:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@devil1.arpnetworks.com) Received: (qmail 26027 invoked by uid 501); 28 Feb 2001 06:12:17 -0000 Date: 28 Feb 2001 06:12:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20010228061217.26026.qmail@devil1.arpnetworks.com> To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: BSDSearch.Com - !New! Search Engine for BSD Users From: bsdjesus@bsdsearch.com X-Mailer: Postlister 1,16 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org BSDSearch.com http://www.bsdsearch.com is a new search engine for BSD Users around the Glove. It aims to be the largest indexed directory on the 'net for BSD Users. BSDSearch is by far the easiest way to find resources for iBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and Anything Related to BSD. For more information contact bsdjesus@bsdsearch.com, webmaster@bsdsearch.com or reply to this e-mail. To be removed from the list,simply reply with remove in the subject head and we will remove your name. http://www.bsdsearch.com -- BSDSearch.com The Worlds Largest Directory and Search Engine for BSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 23:12:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A9837B71A for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:12:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1S7CB677413 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:12:16 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:12:11 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: spam from BSDSearch.com Reply-To: dan@langille.org X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm very disappointed at being spammed by a BSD site. Did anyone else get this: 2001 19:04:20 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from root@devil1.arpnetworks.com) Received: from devil1.arpnetworks.com (IDENT:qmailr@devil1.arpnetworks.com [206.171.92.96]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f1S64J677205 for <[suppressed]>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:04:19 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from root@devil1.arpnetworks.com) Received: (qmail 26662 invoked by uid 501); 28 Feb 2001 06:14:02 -0000 Date: 28 Feb 2001 06:14:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20010228061402.26661.qmail@devil1.arpnetworks.com> To: [suppressed] Subject: BSDSearch.Com - !New! Search Engine for BSD Users From: bsdjesus@bsdsearch.com X-Mailer: Postlister 1,16 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 1 P36380.CNM BSDSearch.com http://www.bsdsearch.com is a new search engine for BSD Users around the Glove. It aims to be the largest indexed directory on the 'net for BSD Users. BSDSearch is by far the easiest way to find resources for iBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and Anything Related to BSD. For more information contact bsdjesus@bsdsearch.com, webmaster@bsdsearch.com or reply to this e-mail. To be removed from the list,simply reply with remove in the subject head and we will remove your name. http://www.bsdsearch.com -- BSDSearch.com The Worlds Largest Directory and Search Engine for BSD. -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 23:13:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0AA37B719; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:13:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA05367; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 00:07:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAF0aaAk; Wed Feb 28 00:07:17 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA18761; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 00:13:33 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102280713.AAA18761@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system To: riel@conectiva.com.br (Rik van Riel) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:13:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass), tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jar@integratus.com (Jack Rusher), sam@errno.com (Sam Leffler), zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu (Zhiui Zhang), freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Rik van Riel" at Feb 27, 2001 05:41:43 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > 3. however, improvements to the code will be available to > everbody; nobody will be able to take away IBM's market > using an improved version of their product -- IBM itself > will also have the improved code (different from BSD) If JFS improvents are created, they are under the GPL, since they are a derivative work of code under that license, and thus IBM can not roll them back into OS/2, unless they release OS/2 under GPL. The same for XFS, SGI, and IRIX. Neither of these are possible, since, among other vendors, both OSs contain code licensed from Microsoft. Believe me, they are not expecting contributions from the community, other than bug fixes and porting. If the license were friendly to commercial use on either one of them, then it would be only a matter of time before a BSD using company paid a professional programmer to do something more than bug fixes and porting work. Most likely, the code would be released back out to offload maintenance, since it wouldn't constitute a huge intellectual property investment. I made these arguments to vice presidents of engineering in both companies. The only reason the code was released was marketing climbing onto the Linux bandwagon. > Can you really blame them for chosing this option ? Yes. As a stockholder, I can. The MPL would have been a much better commercial choice, since it would have given the company the right to roll changes back into its commercial product, instead of having to recreate them to avoid back-contamination. As a BSD user, the LGPL would have been a better choice. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 23:18:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [64.0.106.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E1837B71A for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:18:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scanner@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA24455; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 02:18:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 02:18:12 -0500 (EST) From: To: Dan Langille Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com In-Reply-To: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On every single friggen list im sub'ed to! Grrrrrr. ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 23:22:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E22B37B71C for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:22:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1S7M2677502; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:22:03 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102280722.f1S7M2677502@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:22:02 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oh, I'm just seeing the ones on the lists now. My initial message was about spam directly to me. So far, I count three. Every one of them is getting a formal complaint. Death to spammers. On 28 Feb 2001, at 2:18, scanner@jurai.net wrote: > > > On every single friggen list im sub'ed to! Grrrrrr. > > =========================================================================== > == -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek > Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, > Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net > =========================================================================== > == WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to > go tommorow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" > =========================================================================== > == irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 > > -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 27 23:32:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guru.mired.org (okc-65-26-235-186.mmcable.com [65.26.235.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97E5437B719 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:32:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: (qmail 24939 invoked by uid 100); 28 Feb 2001 07:32:17 -0000 From: Mike Meyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15004.43393.268384.206685@guru.mired.org> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 01:32:17 -0600 To: dan@langille.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com In-Reply-To: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org> References: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.89 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dan Langille types: > I'm very disappointed at being spammed by a BSD site. Did anyone > else get this: Yes, I did. But the copy I got still had all the headers on it, including the ones it got from going through freebsd-chat@freebsd.org. So what I got looked like a slightly inappropriate message for the forum it was on. On the other hand, it had a different message id than yours, which could mean a lot of things. Unfortunately, you failed to forward the header informaiton needed to figure out exactly what it meant. 2001 19:04:20 +1300 (NZDT) > (envelope-from root@devil1.arpnetworks.com) > Received: from devil1.arpnetworks.com > (IDENT:qmailr@devil1.arpnetworks.com [206.171.92.96]) > by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with > SMTP id f1S64J677205 > for <[suppressed]>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:04:19 > +1300 (NZDT) > (envelope-from root@devil1.arpnetworks.com) > Received: (qmail 26662 invoked by uid 501); 28 Feb 2001 06:14:02 -0000 > Date: 28 Feb 2001 06:14:02 -0000 > Message-ID: <20010228061402.26661.qmail@devil1.arpnetworks.com> > To: [suppressed] > Subject: BSDSearch.Com - !New! Search Engine for BSD Users > From: bsdjesus@bsdsearch.com > X-Mailer: Postlister 1,16 > X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 1 P36380.CNM > > BSDSearch.com http://www.bsdsearch.com is a new search engine > for BSD > Users around the Glove. It aims to be the largest > indexed directory on > the 'net for BSD Users. BSDSearch is by far the easiest way to find > resources for iBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and Anything > Related to > BSD. For more information contact bsdjesus@bsdsearch.com, > webmaster@bsdsearch.com or reply to this e-mail. To be removed from > the list,simply reply with remove in the subject head and we will > remove your name. http://www.bsdsearch.com > > -- > BSDSearch.com > The > Worlds Largest Directory and Search Engine for BSD. > > > > -- > Dan Langille > pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php > got any work? I'm looking for some. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- Mike Meyer http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 1:13:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E5637B71B for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 01:13:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1S9DQ678154; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:13:30 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102280913.f1S9DQ678154@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Mike Meyer Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:13:26 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <15004.43393.268384.206685@guru.mired.org> References: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 28 Feb 2001, at 1:32, Mike Meyer wrote: > Yes, I did. But the copy I got still had all the headers on it, > including the ones it got from going through freebsd-chat@freebsd.org. So > what I got looked like a slightly inappropriate message for the forum it > was on. I included all headers prior to entering my subnet. > On the other hand, it had a different message id than yours, which > could mean a lot of things. Unfortunately, you failed to forward the > header informaiton needed to figure out exactly what it meant. Perhaps because my message came directly to me and not via any list? I received two others similarly and one via -chat. Does it make sense now or do you want full headers? -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 2: 7:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 375B237B718 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 02:07:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id f1SA7cu43683 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:07:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id LAA57680 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:07:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:07:38 +0100 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Can Jordan.pl really compete with this? Message-ID: <20010228110738.B56858@lpt.ens.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.alancoxonachip.com (seen on slashdot...) R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 2:13: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-158.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.158]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820FE37B719 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 02:12:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CFB4E66EED; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 02:12:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 02:12:56 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Kris Kennaway , j mckitrick , Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape story Message-ID: <20010228021256.A45150@mollari.cthul.hu> References: <20010221212930.A11954@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <200102220606.XAA07799@usr05.primenet.com> <20010222125933.C19546@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010222192520.A12511@mollari.cthul.hu> <20010223090144.A97454@lpt.ens.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010223090144.A97454@lpt.ens.fr>; from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in on Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 09:01:44AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 09:01:44AM +0100, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Kris Kennaway said on Feb 22, 2001 at 19:25:20: > > On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 12:59:34PM +0000, j mckitrick wrote: > >=20 > > > kicks on and stays on. Maybe Mozilla is different from N6, I don't k= now. > >=20 > > Mozilla is light-years ahead of NS 6.0 (haven't tried the new NS6, > > I've got no need to.) >=20 > Mozilla has not crashed on me even once (versions 0.7 and 0.8 on > FreeBSD). I can't think of another browser I can say that about, > well maybe w3m (even lynx has crashed sometimes). But it is slow > -- on a PII-400 MHz with around 128 MB RAM, it still takes a while > to startup and often takes time to redraw the window, with some > very ugly-looking intermediate stages. I don't think it would be > usable on an older/slower machine. (The rendering engine is fast, > especially with tables where it doesn't wait for all images to be > downloaded first before displaying. It's the UI which seems to=20 > bog it down.) I haven't tried the new NS6 and only briefly tried > the older one, so can't comment. I'm hoping it's extra debugging crap in the <1.0 releases. Recent versions certainly seem much faster than they used to be. Kris --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6nM8oWry0BWjoQKURAobkAJ9IP0c+xxmcanDcSh5+XFVlBlEU7ACgw0Kh dsbfrmD33KGZMNUtvUfpEQ8= =lhhk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 4:22:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from diskfarm.firehouse.net (rdu26-60-051.nc.rr.com [66.26.60.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1B8437B71B for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 04:22:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abc@diskfarm.firehouse.net) Received: (from abc@localhost) by diskfarm.firehouse.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f1SCOZd60832; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:24:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from abc) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:24:35 -0500 From: Alan Clegg To: Dan Langille Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com Message-ID: <20010228072435.C51913@diskfarm.firehouse.net> References: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org>; from dan@langille.org on Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:12:11PM +1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Unless the network is lying to me again, Dan Langille said: > I'm very disappointed at being spammed by a BSD site. Did anyone > else get this: > To: [suppressed] > Subject: BSDSearch.Com - !New! Search Engine for BSD Users > From: bsdjesus@bsdsearch.com Yes, I got copies to every BSDi e-mail address that I own, including aliases, a copy on every mailing list, and yes, they seem to have differing message ids since my dupe-filter did not get rid of them. BTW, I'm happy to be part of the BSD Glove. AlanC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 4:24: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED74037B718 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 04:24:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1SCNv679294; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:23:58 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102281223.f1SCNv679294@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Alan Clegg Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:23:57 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <20010228072435.C51913@diskfarm.firehouse.net> References: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org>; from dan@langille.org on Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:12:11PM +1300 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 28 Feb 2001, at 7:24, Alan Clegg wrote: > Unless the network is lying to me again, Dan Langille said: > > I'm very disappointed at being spammed by a BSD site. Did anyone > > else get this: > > > To: [suppressed] > > Subject: BSDSearch.Com - !New! Search Engine for BSD Users > > From: bsdjesus@bsdsearch.com > > Yes, I got copies to every BSDi e-mail address that I own, including > aliases, a copy on every mailing list, and yes, they seem to have > differing message ids since my dupe-filter did not get rid of them. Thanks. I'm in the process of exercising my angst with a short diary article. > BTW, I'm happy to be part of the BSD Glove. Now that I know, I am too. -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 4:40:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.tfcc.com (tfcci.com [204.210.226.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8634937B718 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 04:40:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cfuhrman@tfcci.com) Received: (from mail@localhost) by proxy.tfcc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15656 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:40:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: proxy.tfcc.com: mail set sender to using -f Received: from icestorm.tfcc.com(192.168.4.115) by proxy.tfcc.com via smap (V2.1/2.1a) id xma015623; Wed, 28 Feb 01 07:39:56 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:39:57 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Fuhrman X-Sender: To: Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com In-Reply-To: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org> Message-ID: Organization: 21st Century Communications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Out of curiousity, how does one null-route a particular IP? Seriously, here's what Sam Spade (http://www.samspade.org) dug up: Address Digger Results (Version 3.1beta) Let's go! Official name: www.bsdsearch.com Addresses: 206.171.92.96 Whois for www.bsdsearch.com .com is the global domain of USA & International Commercial (Whois queries for .com domains can be performed at http://rs.internic.net/cgi-bin/whois) whois -h whois.crsnic.net bsdsearch.com Redirecting to TUCOWS.COM, INC. Registrant: ARP Networks 24424 Vanowen St. West Hills, CA 91307 US Domain Name: BSDSEARCH.COM Administrative Contact: Dolley, Garry garry@arpnetworks.com 24424 Vanowen St. West Hills, CA 91307 US 818-843-4247 Technical Contact: Dolley, Garry garry@arpnetworks.com 24424 Vanowen St. West Hills, CA 91307 US 818-843-4247 Billing Contact: Dolley, Garry garry@arpnetworks.com 24424 Vanowen St. West Hills, CA 91307 US 818-843-4247 Record last updated on 28-Feb-2001. Record expires on 20-Jul-2002. Record Created on 20-Jul-2000. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.FILETRON.COM 206.171.92.1 NS2.PBI.NET 206.13.29.11 IP block lookup for 206.171.92.96 whois -h whois.arin.net 206.171.92.96 Pacific Bell Internet Services,Inc. (NETBLK-PBI-NET-1) PBI-NET-1 206.170.0.0 - 206.171.255.255 filetron l.l.c. (NETBLK-FILETRON-NET-1) FILETRON-NET-1 206.171.92.0 - 206.171.92.127 To single out one record, look it up with "!xxx", where xxx is the handle, shown in parenthesis following the name, which comes first. The ARIN Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Network Information: Networks, ASN's, and related POC's. Please use the whois server at rs.internic.net for DOMAIN related Information and whois.nic.mil for NIPRNET Information. On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Dan Langille wrote: > I'm very disappointed at being spammed by a BSD site. Did anyone > else get this: > -- Chris Fuhrman | Twenty First Century Communications cfuhrman@tfcci.com | Software Engineer (W) 614-442-1215 x271 | (F) 614-442-5662 | PGP/GPG Public Key Available on Request To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 4:45:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635D437B719 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 04:45:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1SCjF679399; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:45:16 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102281245.f1SCjF679399@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Chris Fuhrman Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:45:14 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org References: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 28 Feb 2001, at 7:39, Chris Fuhrman wrote: > > Domain Name: BSDSEARCH.COM > Administrative Contact: > Dolley, Garry garry@arpnetworks.com > 24424 Vanowen St. > West Hills, CA 91307 > US > 818-843-4247 The spam originated within arpnetworks.com, which is registered to: Dolley, Garry (GD6096) gcd@SILICON.NET ARP Networks 146 S. Adams #10 Glendale , CA 91205 818-246-8721 Looks like the same guy runs both domains. That name also appears regularly within a bsdsearch forum: http://bsdsearch.com/eao/phorum2/list.php?f=1 # host bsdsearch.com bsdsearch.com has address 206.171.92.96 bsdsearch.com mail is handled (pri=10) by mail.filetron.com # host arpnetworks.com arpnetworks.com has address 206.171.92.98 arpnetworks.com mail is handled (pri=10) by mail.filetron.com It doesn't appear to be an act of terrorism directed at the BSDSearch people Unless it was an inside job. To me, it appears BSDSearch, or arpnetworks.com, have issued the spam themselves. -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 4:48:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E6F37B718 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 04:48:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA75167; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:48:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RMS supports Vorbis switch to BSD license? References: <20010226145200.Q42463@lpt.ens.fr> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 28 Feb 2001 13:48:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: Rahul Siddharthan's message of "Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:52:00 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rahul Siddharthan writes: > In response to the change of license, Richard Stallman of the Free > Software Foundation says, "I agree. It is wise to make some of the > Ogg Vorbis code available for use in proprietary software, so that > commercial companies doing proprietary software will use it, and help > Vorbis succeed in competition with other formats that would be > restricted against our use." When did RMS find the time to grow a brain? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 4:55:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 641AE37B71A for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 04:55:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA75210; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:55:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Chris Fuhrman Cc: Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 28 Feb 2001 13:55:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: Chris Fuhrman's message of "Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:39:57 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Fuhrman writes: > Out of curiousity, how does one null-route a particular IP? # route add 1.2.3.4 127.0.0.1 DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 12:20:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D74F637B71A for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:20:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1SKKQ682394 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:20:26 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102282020.f1SKKQ682394@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:20:25 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com Reply-To: dan@langille.org In-reply-to: <200102280712.f1S7CB677413@ns1.unixathome.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 28 Feb 2001, at 20:12, Dan Langille wrote: > I'm very disappointed at being spammed by a BSD site. Has anyone had any response from complaints regarding this incident? -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 15:53:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F242B37B719; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:53:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cattelan@thebarn.com) Received: from ledzep.americas.sgi.com (ledzep.americas.sgi.com [137.38.226.97]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id PAA04733; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:50:21 -0800 (PST) mail_from (cattelan@thebarn.com) Received: from gibble.americas.sgi.com (gibble.americas.sgi.com [128.162.195.80]) by ledzep.americas.sgi.com (SGI-SGI-8.9.3/americas-smart-nospam1.1) with ESMTP id RAA70608; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:51:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from thebarn.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gibble.americas.sgi.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1SNoFj23223; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:50:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3A9D8EB6.42C6E7CE@thebarn.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:50:14 -0500 From: Russell Cattelan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-XFS i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Wemm Cc: Brad Knowles , Terry Lambert , "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Jack Rusher , Sam Leffler , Zhiui Zhang , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Design a journalled file system References: <200102271844.f1RIiE730029@mobile.wemm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter Wemm wrote: > Brad Knowles wrote: > > At 3:46 AM +0000 2/27/01, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > Because you can't ditribute a FreeBSD kernel with GPL'ed code > > > linked into it legally, due to the GPL disallowing distribution > > > of the code with non-GPL'ed code. > > > > > > Yes, changing the license to the LGPL would fix the problem. > > > > Ahh, okay. I haven't been watching the list very closely the > > last couple of days, and I had somehow come to the mistaken > > conclusion that your statement was made on the basis of technical > > reasons as opposed to license issues, and I just couldn't see how > > there would be technical problems with what you were proposing. > > > > Thanks for the clarification! > > loader(8)'s requirements are so radically different to "real" file system > code that no real code sharing is done. msdos, ufs, ext2fs etc are all > essentially microscopic dumb simple readers. > > There is no way SGI's XFS would ever be linked in, regardless of license. If > it was done, it would be a simple dumb low level reader that was done > from the ground up, just like the rest of the fs stubs in there. ie: > the SGI XFS license is irrelevant. This was my take on the situation also. I had a brief talk with the person primarily responsible for getting XFS license in order. He confirmed and few things... SGI has 0 interest in XFS on BSD, no objections to it but no from a business stand point no arguable benefits. In fact it is becoming less clear if GPL'ing the code for linux has resulting in any gain. In terms of how far the GPL can be applied in regarding kernel modules. The GPL states code "linked" with GPL code must then also fall under the GPL, apparently the process of exporting symbols such that an external modules can reference them does not fall under "linking". I not arguing the point either way this is SGI interpretation of how the GPL applies to the code base. The reason for this interpretation; SGI will have several non open source products for linux which therefore must remain un infected. On a bit of slightly good news he did agree to look at the LGPL and see if it can be adapted to meet SGI requirement and reduce some of the concerns of the BSD fears of GPL infection. As far as a third party copyrights, at this point only one identifiable contribution has been made to the linux code base that may have arguable copyrights. This code deals with extended attributes on the linux side. Small bug fixes are not significant enough to constitute intellectual property and therefore do not have dependable copyrights. (with dependable being the important part, copyrights may be asserted but unless they are dependable they carry no merit). I'm not sure if people are aware of this but a few people (including myself) have started working on the port. If anybody is actually interesting in contributing and necessarily spending all of his/her time playing part time lawyer let me know I will set you up access to the repository. At this point nothing is working but the core code is compiling. Russell Cattelan -- Digital Elves inc. -- Currently on loan to SGI Linux XFS core developer. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 18:25:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pioneernet.net (smtp.globalsupremacy.com [208.240.196.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3240037B719 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:25:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chip@wiegand.org) Received: from chip.wiegand.org [208.194.173.26] by pioneernet.net (SMTPD32-6.05) id A42288B4007C; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:29:54 -0800 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:29:17 -0800 From: Chip Wiegand To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: We survived the earthquake Message-Id: <20010228182917.7d640fe1.chip@wiegand.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.4.61 (GTK+ 1.2.8; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE; i386) Organization: wiegand.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, my family and I survived the earthquake today. And none of my computers or printers fell on the floor, though a few of my wifes things did, nothing damaged though. My cat must've been going crazy. Anybody else on this list live in the Puget Sound region? How'd you do? At work everyone just headed out to the parking lot, where we could feel the ground rolling in waves, quite unnerving. The lot next to ours is under construction and there's one of those tall spindly cranes over there, probable a couple hundred feet high. The guy up at the top was out of the control room and standing out on the arm of the crane waving his arms around. Man, he must've been rattled to the bones! He didn't go back into the control room for about 20 minutes after that, just standing out on the arm of the crane, probably getting himself back together. Anyway, just thought I'd pass along a few thoughts in the aftermath of the quake. I live about 15 miles north of Seattle, there were no damaged buildings up here, but Seattle has quite a mess to clean up. Regards, -- Chip Wiegand Alternative Operating Systems www.wiegand.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 18:28:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCBE37B71A for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:28:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00551; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:28:14 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010228192623.048c4bd0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:28:10 -0700 To: Chip Wiegand , FreeBSD Chat From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: We survived the earthquake In-Reply-To: <20010228182917.7d640fe1.chip@wiegand.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wow.... An earthquake in San Jose and now one three days later in Seattle. Better get lots of duct tape.... The whole Left Coast is falling off! Seriously, hope all is OK there. --Brett At 07:29 PM 2/28/2001, Chip Wiegand wrote: >Well, my family and I survived the earthquake today. And none of my >computers or printers fell on the floor, though a few of my wifes >things did, nothing damaged though. My cat must've been going crazy. >Anybody else on this list live in the Puget Sound region? How'd you >do? >At work everyone just headed out to the parking lot, where we could >feel the ground rolling in waves, quite unnerving. The lot next to >ours is under construction and there's one of those tall spindly >cranes over there, probable a couple hundred feet high. The guy up >at the top was out of the control room and standing out on the arm >of the crane waving his arms around. Man, he must've been rattled >to the bones! He didn't go back into the control room for about 20 >minutes after that, just standing out on the arm of the crane, >probably getting himself back together. > >Anyway, just thought I'd pass along a few thoughts in the aftermath >of the quake. I live about 15 miles north of Seattle, there were no >damaged buildings up here, but Seattle has quite a mess to clean up. > >Regards, >-- >Chip Wiegand >Alternative Operating Systems >www.wiegand.org > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 19:44:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.102.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2160837B719 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:44:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.11.1/8.11.0) id f213imK76831; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:44:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:44:47 -0800 From: Matthew Hunt To: Chip Wiegand Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: We survived the earthquake Message-ID: <20010228194447.A76221@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <20010228182917.7d640fe1.chip@wiegand.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010228182917.7d640fe1.chip@wiegand.org>; from chip@wiegand.org on Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 06:29:17PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 06:29:17PM -0800, Chip Wiegand wrote: > Well, my family and I survived the earthquake today. I've been trying to figure out why LA is getting the rain and Seattle is getting the earthquakes. In any case, you got the raw end of the deal. Glad to hear you're OK. -- Matthew Hunt * Clearly there are more things in the http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * heavens than anyone anticipated. -enp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 20: 8:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0394B37B718 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:08:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01830; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:08:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010228210606.00d1f340@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:07:54 -0700 To: Matthew Hunt , Chip Wiegand From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: We survived the earthquake Cc: FreeBSD Chat In-Reply-To: <20010228194447.A76221@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <20010228182917.7d640fe1.chip@wiegand.org> <20010228182917.7d640fe1.chip@wiegand.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:44 PM 2/28/2001, Matthew Hunt wrote: >I've been trying to figure out why LA is getting the rain and Seattle >is getting the earthquakes. AND San Salvador. Lots of activity along that whole region of the Earth's crust.... LA could easily be the next place to shift. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 20:31:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B4C37B719 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:31:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from europax@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.12.186.185]) by femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010301043118.SSDM19148.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@home.com>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:31:18 -0800 Message-ID: <3A9DD09C.E88F16A5@home.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:31:24 -0800 From: Rob X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Matthew Hunt , Chip Wiegand , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: We survived the earthquake References: <20010228182917.7d640fe1.chip@wiegand.org> <20010228182917.7d640fe1.chip@wiegand.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010228210606.00d1f340@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It was pretty wicked here in Portland, OR. I survived the big one in Ca in 1989? so this one was pretty tame in comparison. Rob. ps. I did look out the window to see if the top of Mt. Hood was still there :) Brett Glass wrote: > > At 08:44 PM 2/28/2001, Matthew Hunt wrote: > > >I've been trying to figure out why LA is getting the rain and Seattle > >is getting the earthquakes. > > AND San Salvador. Lots of activity along that whole region of > the Earth's crust.... LA could easily be the next place to > shift. > > --Brett > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 28 23:20:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pioneernet.net (smtp.earthworksenv.com [208.240.196.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6A837B71A for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:20:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chip@wiegand.org) Received: from chip.wiegand.org [208.194.173.26] by pioneernet.net (SMTPD32-6.05) id A637628012A; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:03:35 -0800 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:02:58 -0800 From: Chip Wiegand To: Matthew Hunt Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We survived the earthquake Message-Id: <20010228220258.66e0ab79.chip@wiegand.org> In-Reply-To: <20010228194447.A76221@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <20010228182917.7d640fe1.chip@wiegand.org> <20010228194447.A76221@wopr.caltech.edu> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.4.61 (GTK+ 1.2.8; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE; i386) Organization: wiegand.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:44:47 -0800 Matthew Hunt surely must have wrote something like: > On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 06:29:17PM -0800, Chip Wiegand wrote: > > > Well, my family and I survived the earthquake today. > > I've been trying to figure out why LA is getting the rain and Seattle > is getting the earthquakes. In any case, you got the raw end of the > deal. Glad to hear you're OK. Heh, Heh, LA can have all the rain, I'm gonna leave this damp state in the next couple years for the warmer climate of AZ. > -- > Matthew Hunt * Clearly there are more things in the > http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * heavens than anyone anticipated. -enp > -- Chip Wiegand Alternative Operating Systems www.wiegand.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 4:19:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2868A37B718; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 04:19:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@daemonnews.org) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0CF93239A51; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 04:19:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 04:19:09 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Daemon News Ezine, March 2001 (not spam!) Message-ID: <20010301041908.A45600@klapaucius.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: daemonnews Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The March 2001 issue of the Daemon News Ezine brings you: - A sample chapter of the FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide - A review of that same book - An IP-less bridging firewall using OpenBSD and IPFilter - The Answerman's monthly mailbag - A look into the future of Daemon News ...and more! Daemon News is looking for articles, stories, reviews, white papers, and nearly anything else BSD-related for publication in our ezine and print magazine. If you're interested in being published, please email . Thanks! P.S.: We'll never spam you. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Madness takes its toll. mailto:gsutter@daemonnews.org Please have exact change. http://www.daemonnews.org/ hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 4:33:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1793237B71B for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 04:33:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rootman@xmission.com) Received: from [166.70.9.221] (helo=blackmirror.xmission.com) by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14YSGk-0005Lq-00; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 05:33:18 -0700 From: Joe Warner To: Chip Wiegand , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: We survived the earthquake Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 05:16:32 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" References: <20010228182917.7d640fe1.chip@wiegand.org> In-Reply-To: <20010228182917.7d640fe1.chip@wiegand.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01030105331001.00278@blackmirror.xmission.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Chip Wiegand wrote: > Well, my family and I survived the earthquake today. And none of my > computers or printers fell on the floor, though a few of my wifes > things did, nothing damaged though. My cat must've been going crazy. > Anybody else on this list live in the Puget Sound region? How'd you > do? > At work everyone just headed out to the parking lot, where we could > feel the ground rolling in waves, quite unnerving. The lot next to > ours is under construction and there's one of those tall spindly > cranes over there, probable a couple hundred feet high. The guy up > at the top was out of the control room and standing out on the arm > of the crane waving his arms around. Man, he must've been rattled > to the bones! He didn't go back into the control room for about 20 > minutes after that, just standing out on the arm of the crane, > probably getting himself back together. > > Anyway, just thought I'd pass along a few thoughts in the aftermath > of the quake. I live about 15 miles north of Seattle, there were no > damaged buildings up here, but Seattle has quite a mess to clean up. > > Regards, > -- > Chip Wiegand I'm glad to hear you're all right. I heard about it first while I was at work yesterday. The news was all over the web. First they said the quake was a 6.4 and then upgraded it to a 7.0. I live in Salt Lake City, Utah and when I got home, the local media was interviewing people at the Salt Lake International Airport who were on a flight that left Seattle minutes before the quake struck. They were notified of the quake minutes before landing in Salt Lake and most were scrambling for the phones to contact loved ones to make sure they were all right. Earthquakes in Seattle are probably as rare as tornados in Salt Lake but they do happen. We had an F2 tornado come through downtown Salt Lake in the early part of 2000 and it nearly tore the roof off the Delta Center before moving up into the avenues and trashing a few houses and lots of trees. It's good to hear most people are all right. It could have been a lot worse. Joe You know you're in trouble when your wife asks you; "Would you like me any better if I had a square face?" -me To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 5:34: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55ED637B71C; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 05:34:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA80109; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:33:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Gregory Sutter Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Daemon News Ezine, March 2001 (not spam!) References: <20010301041908.A45600@klapaucius.zer0.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 01 Mar 2001 14:33:57 +0100 In-Reply-To: Gregory Sutter's message of "Thu, 1 Mar 2001 04:19:09 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gregory Sutter writes: > P.S.: We'll never spam you. Funny. BSDSearch claims to be sponsored by Daemon News. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 8:33:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBE7A37B73B; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:33:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14YWC8-00009E-00; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:44:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3A9E7C80.4668BA5A@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:44:48 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Daemon News Ezine, March 2001 (not spam!) References: <20010301041908.A45600@klapaucius.zer0.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Gregory Sutter writes: > > P.S.: We'll never spam you. > > Funny. BSDSearch claims to be sponsored by Daemon News. Ugh. No, they're not. Why would DN sponsor something to compete with search.daemonnews.org? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 8:45:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0334E37B719; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:45:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA80850; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:45:14 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Wes Peters Cc: chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Daemon News Ezine, March 2001 (not spam!) References: <20010301041908.A45600@klapaucius.zer0.org> <3A9E7C80.4668BA5A@softweyr.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 01 Mar 2001 17:45:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: Wes Peters's message of "Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:44:48 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 19 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wes Peters writes: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Gregory Sutter writes: > > > P.S.: We'll never spam you. > > Funny. BSDSearch claims to be sponsored by Daemon News. > Ugh. No, they're not. Why would DN sponsor something to compete with > search.daemonnews.org? Well, then, that's a cease-and-desist just waiting to happen, isn't it? Check it out yourself - http://www.bsdsearch.com/ lists Daemon News at the top of the "Sponsors" section of their front page. The ironic part is that the "Which BSD site is sending out spam?" Daily Daemon News article is listed on BSDSearch's "Latest Headlines" section :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 9:44:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from diskfarm.firehouse.net (rdu26-60-051.nc.rr.com [66.26.60.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA4637B718; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:44:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abc@diskfarm.firehouse.net) Received: (from abc@localhost) by diskfarm.firehouse.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f21Hkt585243; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:46:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from abc) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:46:55 -0500 From: Alan Clegg To: FreeBSD-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Open Source Hosting Solution Message-ID: <20010301124655.G82500@diskfarm.firehouse.net> Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010301095436.009f4030@pop3.rackspace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010301095436.009f4030@pop3.rackspace.com>; from bbeckman@rackspace.com on Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:55:01AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Unless the network is lying to me again, Barry Beckman said: > Thought you might like to know about us. Could you pass this on to the > appropriate individual(s)? Thanks! > > We partner with RedHat. [...] I asked abuse@redhat.com about this. They are in the midst of trying to find out what the relationship between Rackspace and RedHat actually is. It may be similar to how BSDSearch is being "Sponsored" by DaemonNews. AlanC {redirecting this to -chat} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 10: 5: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84D3937B71A for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:04:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id f21I4qu40316 ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:04:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id TAA03792 ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:04:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:04:46 +0100 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Kris Kennaway Cc: j mckitrick , Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netscape story Message-ID: <20010301190446.E1145@lpt.ens.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Kris Kennaway , j mckitrick , Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010221212930.A11954@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <200102220606.XAA07799@usr05.primenet.com> <20010222125933.C19546@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010222192520.A12511@mollari.cthul.hu> <20010223090144.A97454@lpt.ens.fr> <20010228021256.A45150@mollari.cthul.hu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010228021256.A45150@mollari.cthul.hu>; from kris@obsecurity.org on Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:12:56AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kennaway said on Feb 28, 2001 at 02:12:56: > On Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 09:01:44AM +0100, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > > Mozilla has not crashed on me even once (versions 0.7 and 0.8 on > > FreeBSD). I can't think of another browser I can say that about, > > well maybe w3m (even lynx has crashed sometimes). But it is slow > > -- on a PII-400 MHz with around 128 MB RAM, it still takes a while > > to startup and often takes time to redraw the window, with some > > very ugly-looking intermediate stages. I don't think it would be > I'm hoping it's extra debugging crap in the <1.0 releases. Recent > versions certainly seem much faster than they used to be. > > Kris I just upgraded my KDE to 2.1, and konqueror looks *really* good now. All the pages I checked, including those which used to display strangely earlier, work fine now. It's much faster than mozilla (though it has a longer initial starting time if you're not running kde already), and it can do neat things like displaying postscript/pdf within the browser window instead of popping up an external program. I think my choice of graphical browser is made, for the near future anyway. Of course, I still tend to use lynx a lot. R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 10:18:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gw.doug.net (154.209-115-209-0.interbaun.com [209.115.209.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C83E37B719 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:18:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doug@gw.doug.net) Received: (from doug@localhost) by gw.doug.net (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f21IInd74975 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:18:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from doug) From: Doug MacKintosh Message-Id: <200103011818.f21IInd74975@gw.doug.net> Subject: Spam from bsdsearch.com To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:18:49 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greetings all, The recent spam from bsdsearch.com was not well rec'd by very many folks, myself included. Such a disappointment to see this kind of behaviour from a member of the BSD community. As a group, we BSD folks hold ourselves to a higher standard such that we may lead by example and demonstrate conduct that is appropriate in any given situation. That is why I feel that their spam is worthy of a response. In emailing back and forth with the perpetrator(s) of this incident it became evident that they were remorseless with regard to their conduct and in fact were even lying about the reason the spam was sent, claiming that it was an accident and/or a mistake. It was obviously neither. This was merely a weak attempt to spin what they did (deliberately, with forethought and planning) in a less-disastrous direction. Their Internet provider, pbi.net (PacBell) has an acceptable use policy that forbids the sending of spam. I had intended to log a complaint with pbi.net over this incident but I (stupidly) deleted the spam itself. I suggest that all parties concerned contact abuse@pbi.net with the relevant information and make formal complaints. If someone is still in posession of the spam in question and would be so kind as to forward a copy to me, I will do this also. Thanks for your time... -- Doug -- doug mackintosh the unix geek doug@doug.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 11:14:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D03C37B719 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:14:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA81404; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 20:14:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Doug MacKintosh Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Spam from bsdsearch.com References: <200103011818.f21IInd74975@gw.doug.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 01 Mar 2001 20:14:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: Doug MacKintosh's message of "Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:18:49 -0700 (MST)" Message-ID: Lines: 22 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug MacKintosh writes: > Their Internet provider, pbi.net (PacBell) has an > acceptable use policy that forbids the sending of spam. I > had intended to log a complaint with pbi.net over this > incident but I (stupidly) deleted the spam itself. I suggest > that all parties concerned contact abuse@pbi.net with the > relevant information and make formal complaints. I still have a copy, and have sent a complaint to abuse@pbi.net and abuse@filetron.com (the latter bounced, apparently these people don't read RFCs...) > [...] If someone > is still in posession of the spam in question and would be > so kind as to forward a copy to me, I will do this also. Complaining about somebody else's copy of the spam won't do you any good - and in any case there should be enough complainants as it is. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 11:31: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027AA37B71A for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:30:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f21JUn605178; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:30:49 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200103011930.f21JUn605178@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:30:49 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Spam from bsdsearch.com Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Doug MacKintosh's message of "Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:18:49 -0700 (MST)" In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1 Mar 2001, at 20:14, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Doug MacKintosh writes: > > Their Internet provider, pbi.net (PacBell) has an > > acceptable use policy that forbids the sending of spam. I > > had intended to log a complaint with pbi.net over this > > incident but I (stupidly) deleted the spam itself. I suggest > > that all parties concerned contact abuse@pbi.net with the > > relevant information and make formal complaints. > > I still have a copy, and have sent a complaint to abuse@pbi.net and > abuse@filetron.com (the latter bounced, apparently these people don't > read RFCs...) Don't you hate that.... I used this address instead: Registrant: filetron l.l.c. (FILETRON-DOM) 1536 Gage Road Montebello, Ca 90039 Montebello, CA 90039 US Domain Name: FILETRON.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact: Goodman, Victor (VG68) vgoodman@LINUXSTART.COM 2109 Micheltorena Street Los Angeles, CA 90039 323-669-0822 (FAX) 323-666-9537 > > > [...] If someone > > is still in posession of the spam in question and would be > > so kind as to forward a copy to me, I will do this also. > > Complaining about somebody else's copy of the spam won't do you any > good - and in any case there should be enough complainants as it is. I take your point, but there can never be too many complaints. There was a 14 hour gap between the time the spam was done and we first heard anything from Garry. It has now been nearly two days and all we've heard is "sorry, we sent it to the wrong list by mistake". He's had more than enough time to clear this issue up. It is time to appeal to his providers. But as you said, there's no point in forwarding someone else's copy. -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 11:31:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D06E37B71C for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:31:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f21JVK605196; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:31:20 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200103011931.f21JVK605196@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Doug MacKintosh Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:31:19 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Spam from bsdsearch.com Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <200103011818.f21IInd74975@gw.doug.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1 Mar 2001, at 11:18, Doug MacKintosh wrote: > In emailing back and forth with the perpetrator(s) of this > incident I received no reply to my queries to both bsdsearch and arpnetworks.com > it became evident that they were remorseless > with regard to their conduct and in fact were even lying > about the reason the spam was sent, claiming that it was > an accident and/or a mistake. It was obviously neither. It rather seems that way. It's very difficult to accumulate a "list" by accident. > Their Internet provider, pbi.net (PacBell) has an > acceptable use policy that forbids the sending of spam. I > had intended to log a complaint with pbi.net over this > incident but I (stupidly) deleted the spam itself. I suggest > that all parties concerned contact abuse@pbi.net with the > relevant information and make formal complaints. If someone > is still in posession of the spam in question and would be > so kind as to forward a copy to me, I will do this also. I have forwarded them the four copies of spam I received. And complained to vgoodman@LINUXSTART.COM -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 11:41:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B3337B73C; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:41:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f21JfK605413; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:41:20 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200103011941.f21JfK605413@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:41:19 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Daemon News Ezine, March 2001 (not spam!) Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: Wes Peters's message of "Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:44:48 -0700" In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1 Mar 2001, at 17:45, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > The ironic part is that the "Which BSD site is sending out spam?" > Daily Daemon News article is listed on BSDSearch's "Latest Headlines" > section :) I'll take the blame for that.... *grin* -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 11:41:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B7037B780; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:41:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f21JfK605410; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:41:20 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200103011941.f21JfK605410@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:41:18 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: spam from BSDSearch.com (was Re: Daemon News Ezine, March 2001 (not spam!)) Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: Wes Peters's message of "Thu, 01 Mar 2001 09:44:48 -0700" In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1 Mar 2001, at 17:45, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Wes Peters writes: > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > Gregory Sutter writes: > > > > P.S.: We'll never spam you. > > > Funny. BSDSearch claims to be sponsored by Daemon News. > > Ugh. No, they're not. Why would DN sponsor something to compete with > > search.daemonnews.org? > > Well, then, that's a cease-and-desist just waiting to happen, isn't > it? Check it out yourself - http://www.bsdsearch.com/ lists Daemon > News at the top of the "Sponsors" section of their front page. > > The ironic part is that the "Which BSD site is sending out spam?" > Daily Daemon News article is listed on BSDSearch's "Latest Headlines" > section :) For those wondering what the spammer is claiming, try these threads from the BSDSearch forums: http://bsdsearch.com/eao/phorum2/read.php?f=1&i=24&t=16 http://bsdsearch.com/eao/phorum2/read.php?f=1&i=26&t=16 Basically, they are admitting that a friend made a list of BSD emails. It appears they thought spamming people was OK, but didn't know their list contained mailing list addresses. -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 1 23:52: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1376B37B718; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:51:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 1DA1DE; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 02:51:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16F8949A13; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 02:51:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 02:51:58 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Coleman To: Dan Langille Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com (was Re: Daemon News Ezine, March 2001 (not spam!)) In-Reply-To: <200103011941.f21JfK605410@ns1.unixathome.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > Funny. BSDSearch claims to be sponsored by Daemon News. > > > Ugh. No, they're not. Why would DN sponsor something to compete with > > > search.daemonnews.org? For the same reason we sponsor FreeBSDZine and FreeBSDDiary, although they directly compete with us. We also have had ads on O'Reillynet.com/bsd and bsdfreak.org All of these are ad or link exchanges, a show of support and community building. We try to support other BSD activities, even commercial ones like Wasabi and such. Occasionally, DN supporters will pull cash out of their own pockets and promote DN on different sites if it isn't too much. At DN, its the community that powers us. I won't speak for DN officially in this matter, but I think they would all agree that we seek to promote anyone adding value to the BSD community. For BSD to succeed we all need to pull together. We don't condone SPAM, but we realize everyone makes mistakes. I have personally made too many to count, and been flamed viciously for it, but I am committed to the BSD community and really want to see it grow. Garry has promised that this won't happen again and I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt this time. I don't think we should let this destroy part of our community. This is what almost drove TuCows down. It would appear that to be proactive in the BSD community, the lower regions of your anatomy need to be partially composed of asbestos. I have been at this a long time, and all of my projects have been criticized as being too ambitious. I met with a lot of failure in the beginning, but perseverence led to Daemon News and is currently showing progress on Open Packages. If the SPAM were to continue, our attitude would change. Lets be forgiving at this juncture. -Chris Coleman (Expressing his own opinions) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 2: 7:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C7237B718; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 02:07:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA84370; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:07:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Chris Coleman Cc: Dan Langille , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com (was Re: Daemon News Ezine, March 2001 (not spam!)) References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 02 Mar 2001 11:07:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: Chris Coleman's message of "Fri, 2 Mar 2001 02:51:58 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Coleman writes: > > > Funny. BSDSearch claims to be sponsored by Daemon News. > > Ugh. No, they're not. Why would DN sponsor something to compete with > > search.daemonnews.org? > For the same reason we sponsor FreeBSDZine and FreeBSDDiary, although they > directly compete with us. Does this mean you *do* sponsor BSBSearch? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 2:58:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D6437B718 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 02:58:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f22AwfI05539 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 23:58:42 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200103021058.f22AwfI05539@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 23:58:41 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: anyone in Perth, OZ? Reply-To: dan@langille.org X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just realised I have enough talking points (from Telecom) to fly to Perth from Wellington, NZ. Never having been there, I figured that's a good way to use the points before they expire. What's over there in the way of mountain biking? FreeBSD or php/databse related jobs? *grin* -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 3:47:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64C3337B718 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 03:47:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fanf@dotat.at) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.20 #3) id 14Yo24-0000uB-00; Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:47:36 +0000 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:47:36 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/units units.1 Message-ID: <20010302114736.C412@hand.dotat.at> References: <3A9E26B2.196CD018@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A9E26B2.196CD018@newsguy.com> Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: > >The size is different, but the scale was created by defining what 0 and >100 degrees F represented, just like Celsius. I thought Farenheit was defined based on 0 and 96, since when it was invented it was much easier to make the graduations on a thermometer by divisions of 2 and 3 rather than 2 and 5. Tony. -- f.a.n.finch fanf@covalent.net dot@dotat.at SHANNON: EAST OR SOUTHEAST 4, BUT 5 TO 7 IN SOUTH. WINTRY SHOWERS. GOOD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 4:19:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 736E337B71D for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 04:19:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id f22CJIu18797 ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:19:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id NAA39362 ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:19:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:19:16 +0100 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Trent Waddington , David Johnson , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stallman stalls again Message-ID: <20010302131916.G37575@lpt.ens.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Trent Waddington , David Johnson , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 07:57:46PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Moved to -chat Dag-Erling Smorgrav said on Mar 1, 2001 at 19:57:46: > Trent Waddington writes: > > I say it is worse than that. He doesn't even know what he is embracing. > > I think he does. Judging from his prose and my email exchanges with > him, he's the most deliberate person I know of - almost compulsively, > pathologically so. I haven't yet found any topic about which he does > not care enough to have an opinion. The guy has extreme views. But I've begun realising only lately (in the last 2 years, say) how far to the opposite extreme the rest of the world is going -- ridiculous excesses of content protection and the like. When I first read his "right to read" story it looked like some doomsday scenario, but now some real-life news item along those lines seems to appear every week. This is something that definitely worries me, and I'm quite happy that RMS exists because his extreme position looks infinitely preferable to the direction the corporates are taking us. Moreover, if these mega-content-providers (the RIAA, MPAA, you name it) seek to tie down all content, including books and journals, the way they're currently tying down DVDS and such things, I think the only future for our culture will eventually lie in a sizeable group of people breaking away from such a system and releasing creative material under open content licenses. Even that is made difficult if the big industries, who monopolise production of storage devices, force you to use some absurd copy protection restrictions on every device they produce. Day by day, all this does look more and more likely to happen. I admit, though, that RMS would make a better advocate of the causes he espouses if he were a bit more balanced, like Lawrence Lessig for example. R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 4:24: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA9E37B718 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 04:24:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA84775; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:23:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Tony Finch Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/units units.1 References: <3A9E26B2.196CD018@newsguy.com> <20010302114736.C412@hand.dotat.at> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 02 Mar 2001 13:23:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: Tony Finch's message of "Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:47:36 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tony Finch writes: > "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: > > The size is different, but the scale was created by defining what 0 and > > 100 degrees F represented, just like Celsius. > I thought Farenheit was defined based on 0 and 96, since when it was > invented it was much easier to make the graduations on a thermometer > by divisions of 2 and 3 rather than 2 and 5. No, 0 and 100. 100 degrees Farenheit is very slightly above normal body temperature, allegedly the person he used as benchmark was running a slight fever that day. I'm not complaining, though - "101 Farenheit degrees" doesn't sound quite as cool as "99.9 Farenheit degrees" DES (it may be normal but it isn't quite...) -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 4:39:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4135037B718 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 04:39:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fanf@dotat.at) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.20 #3) id 14YopY-000137-00; Fri, 02 Mar 2001 12:38:44 +0000 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:38:44 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Tony Finch Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/units units.1 Message-ID: <20010302123844.G412@hand.dotat.at> References: <3A9E26B2.196CD018@newsguy.com> <20010302114736.C412@hand.dotat.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >Tony Finch writes: >> "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: >> > The size is different, but the scale was created by defining what 0 and >> > 100 degrees F represented, just like Celsius. >> I thought Farenheit was defined based on 0 and 96, since when it was >> invented it was much easier to make the graduations on a thermometer >> by divisions of 2 and 3 rather than 2 and 5. > >No, 0 and 100. 100 degrees Farenheit is very slightly above normal >body temperature, allegedly the person he used as benchmark was >running a slight fever that day. I'm not complaining, though - "101 >Farenheit degrees" doesn't sound quite as cool as "99.9 Farenheit >degrees" http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/staff/blynds/tmp.html : Fahrenheit described how he calibrated the scale of his mercury : thermometer: : : "placing the thermometer in a mixture of sal ammoniac or sea : salt, ice, and water a point on the scale will be found which is : denoted as zero. A second point is obtained if the same mixture : is used without salt. Denote this position as 30. A third point, : designated as 96, is obtained if the thermometer is placed in : the mouth so as to acquire the heat of a healthy man." (D. G. : Fahrenheit,Phil. Trans. (London) 33, 78, 1724) Tony. -- f.a.n.finch fanf@covalent.net dot@dotat.at MALIN: SOUTHEAST VEERING SOUTHWEST 4 OR 5, OCCASIONALLY 6, INCREASING 7 AT TIMES LATER. SNOW SHOWERS. MAINLY GOOD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 5:16:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF71037B71B for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 05:16:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA85006; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:16:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Tony Finch Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/units units.1 References: <3A9E26B2.196CD018@newsguy.com> <20010302114736.C412@hand.dotat.at> <20010302123844.G412@hand.dotat.at> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 02 Mar 2001 14:16:36 +0100 In-Reply-To: Tony Finch's message of "Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:38:44 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tony Finch writes: > : "placing the thermometer in a mixture of sal ammoniac or sea > : salt, ice, and water a point on the scale will be found which is > : denoted as zero. A second point is obtained if the same mixture > : is used without salt. Denote this position as 30. A third point, > : designated as 96, is obtained if the thermometer is placed in > : the mouth so as to acquire the heat of a healthy man." (D. G. > : Fahrenheit,Phil. Trans. (London) 33, 78, 1724) Heh. Only if you define "healthy" as "hypothermiac". DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 8:47:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE0A37B718; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:47:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id B9C5FE; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B387849A13; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:47:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:47:35 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Coleman To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Dan Langille , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: spam from BSDSearch.com (was Re: Daemon News Ezine, March 2001 (not spam!)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We haven't done anything official to support BSDSearch.com, but I think someone individually arranged for our banner to be up there. I try not to discourage when people take the initiave and promote us. Chris Coleman Daemon News http://www.daemonnews.org Bringing BSD together On 2 Mar 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Chris Coleman writes: > > > > Funny. BSDSearch claims to be sponsored by Daemon News. > > > Ugh. No, they're not. Why would DN sponsor something to compete with > > > search.daemonnews.org? > > For the same reason we sponsor FreeBSDZine and FreeBSDDiary, although they > > directly compete with us. > > Does this mean you *do* sponsor BSBSearch? > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 9:26:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from seagull.cpinternet.com (mail.cpinternet.com [204.220.140.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B25837B718 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:26:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ocean@ecenet.com) Received: from ecenet.com (pr-5300-1-fa233.ecenet.com [209.240.250.233]) by seagull.cpinternet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA13427 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:26:20 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3A9FD7E1.AA2C80B7@ecenet.com> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:26:58 -0600 From: Porter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We survived the earthquake References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Wow, and I thought we had it bad here in Minnesota. We just got dumped on about a week ago with about a foot and a half of snow. Drifts are three feet deep or more. I actually got my snowmobile stuck in a three foot drift. Do you know how much it sucks trying to get a two hundred pound++ snowmobile out snow three foot deep? I had to push with all my might for about twenty feet, it took about a half hour. Any way, I'm glad the 'quake wasn't too bad compared to other disasters. People say that I'm crazy to live in frigid Minnesota, but at least the gates of hell don't open up and try to swallow me!! :) Michael Porter ocean@ecenet.com > > > Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 05:16:32 -0700 > From: Joe Warner > Subject: Re: We survived the earthquake > > On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Chip Wiegand wrote: > > Well, my family and I survived the earthquake today. And none of my > > computers or printers fell on the floor, though a few of my wifes > > things did, nothing damaged though. My cat must've been going crazy. > > Anybody else on this list live in the Puget Sound region? How'd you > > do? > > At work everyone just headed out to the parking lot, where we could > > feel the ground rolling in waves, quite unnerving. The lot next to > > ours is under construction and there's one of those tall spindly > > cranes over there, probable a couple hundred feet high. The guy up > > at the top was out of the control room and standing out on the arm > > of the crane waving his arms around. Man, he must've been rattled > > to the bones! He didn't go back into the control room for about 20 > > minutes after that, just standing out on the arm of the crane, > > probably getting himself back together. > > > > Anyway, just thought I'd pass along a few thoughts in the aftermath > > of the quake. I live about 15 miles north of Seattle, there were no > > damaged buildings up here, but Seattle has quite a mess to clean up. > > > > Regards, > > -- > > Chip Wiegand > > I'm glad to hear you're all right. I heard about it first while I was at work > yesterday. The news was all over the web. First they said the quake > was a 6.4 and then upgraded it to a 7.0. I live in Salt Lake City, Utah and > when I got home, the local media was interviewing people at the Salt > Lake International Airport who were on a flight that left Seattle minutes > before the quake struck. They were notified of the quake minutes before > landing in Salt Lake and most were scrambling for the phones to contact > loved ones to make sure they were all right. > > Earthquakes in Seattle are probably as rare as tornados in Salt Lake but > they do happen. We had an F2 tornado come through downtown Salt Lake > in the early part of 2000 and it nearly tore the roof off the Delta Center > before moving up into the avenues and trashing a few houses and lots > of trees. > > It's good to hear most people are all right. It could have been a lot > worse. > > Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 10: 0:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C9D37B719 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:00:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA22E8; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:05:38 -0800 Message-ID: <3A9FDFD2.535C1DCF@acuson.com> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 10:00:50 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stallman stalls again References: <20010302131916.G37575@lpt.ens.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > The guy has extreme views. But I've begun realising only lately (in > the last 2 years, say) how far to the opposite extreme the rest of the > world is going -- ridiculous excesses of content protection and the > like. Extremes on one end do not excuse extremes on the other. Or in other words, Batista shouldn't be an excuse for Castro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 15:48:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7F237B719 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:48:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fanf@dotat.at) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.20 #3) id 14YzGW-0001qP-00; Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:47:16 +0000 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 23:47:16 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/units units.1 Message-ID: <20010302234716.J412@hand.dotat.at> References: <3A9E26B2.196CD018@newsguy.com> <20010302114736.C412@hand.dotat.at> <20010302123844.G412@hand.dotat.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >Tony Finch writes: >> : "placing the thermometer in a mixture of sal ammoniac or sea >> : salt, ice, and water a point on the scale will be found which is >> : denoted as zero. A second point is obtained if the same mixture >> : is used without salt. Denote this position as 30. A third point, >> : designated as 96, is obtained if the thermometer is placed in >> : the mouth so as to acquire the heat of a healthy man." (D. G. >> : Fahrenheit,Phil. Trans. (London) 33, 78, 1724) > >Heh. Only if you define "healthy" as "hypothermiac". Given that this was nearly 300 years ago and he was inventing the thermometer you have to give him a bit of slack :-) Tony. -- f.a.n.finch fanf@covalent.net dot@dotat.at WIGHT PORTLAND: EASTERLY 4 OR 5, OCCASIONALLY 6. WINTRY SHOWERS. GOOD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 21: 8:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8197437B718 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:08:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01641; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 22:08:17 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010302214720.04589860@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:49:41 -0700 To: Porter , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: We survived the earthquake In-Reply-To: <3A9FD7E1.AA2C80B7@ecenet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:26 AM 3/2/2001, Porter wrote: >Do you know how much it sucks trying to get a >two hundred pound++ snowmobile out snow three foot deep? Ever try winching one out from under the surface of a frozen lake.... Which wasn't frozen enough when the snowmobile was taken out by a foolish and inexperienced user? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 2 21: 9:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8758937B71A for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:09:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01636; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 22:08:07 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010302212858.045817c0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 22:02:49 -0700 To: Rahul Siddharthan , Dag-Erling Smorgrav From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Stallman stalls again Cc: Trent Waddington , David Johnson , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010302131916.G37575@lpt.ens.fr> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:19 AM 3/2/2001, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >The guy has extreme views. But I've begun realising only lately (in >the last 2 years, say) how far to the opposite extreme the rest of the >world is going -- ridiculous excesses of content protection and the >like. Stallman's efforts have, alas, escalated the war between content distributors and consumers. The old balance -- which relied upon the inconvenience of copying content -- has been jeopardized by the advent of broadband, the Internet, and CD-R. But instead of helping to create a new balance, Stallman's efforts are devoted to pushing the two sides apart. Yes, the content distributors have proposed and attempted some very unreasonable things. But they've been driven to it by very real and very illegal acts -- committed by people who trumpet Richard Stallman's words. (Yes, there are other rabble rousers -- such as John Perry Barlow -- in the mix. But they, too, mostly echo Stallman.) In a very real sense, RMS is like Shakespeare's Richard III. He thrives on and benefits from conflict and so takes glee in creating it. This is one reason why I take such strong issue with claims that RMS is a "genius," despite the fact that the MacArthur Foundation unwisely gave him an award whose name contained that word. It doesn't take a genius to instigate a great war. It DOES take one to broker a lasting peace. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 3 11:25:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from yowie.cc.uq.edu.au (yowie.cc.uq.edu.au [130.102.2.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB54637B719 for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:25:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from s337240@student.uq.edu.au) Received: from student.uq.edu.au (s337240@student.uq.edu.au [130.102.87.136]) by yowie.cc.uq.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA30320; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 05:24:08 +1000 (GMT+1000) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 05:24:08 +1000 (GMT+1000) From: Trent Waddington To: Brett Glass Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , David Johnson , Subject: Re: Stallman stalls again In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010302212858.045817c0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Brett Glass wrote: > (Yes, there are other rabble rousers -- such as John Perry > Barlow -- in the mix. But they, too, mostly echo Stallman.) John Perry Barlow was actively speaking out against copyright when emacs was just a gnu in Stallman's eye. If there is anyone who is completely honest and up front about his hatred of copyright moreso than Barlow, I've never heard of him. This is a guy who we can quote as saying "This year my mission is to completely destroy the music industry", his first hatred of copyright. Trent To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 3 12:27:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2907E37B718 for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:27:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08790; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 13:25:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010303132348.04461420@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 13:25:44 -0700 To: Trent Waddington From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Stallman stalls again Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , David Johnson , In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010302212858.045817c0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:24 PM 3/3/2001, Trent Waddington wrote: >John Perry Barlow was actively speaking out against copyright when emacs >was just a gnu in Stallman's eye. Not true! Barlow wasn't involved in computer technology at all until he got on the Well and then went to the Hackers' Conference in 1985. By then, Stallman was already ranting about GNU. Barlow picked up Stallman's views about copyright at that time. (It's also where he met Mitch Kapor.) I know; I was an organizer of the conference. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 3 12:40:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from yowie.cc.uq.edu.au (yowie.cc.uq.edu.au [130.102.2.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB6F837B719 for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:40:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from s337240@student.uq.edu.au) Received: from student.uq.edu.au (s337240@student.uq.edu.au [130.102.87.136]) by yowie.cc.uq.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22656; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 06:40:14 +1000 (GMT+1000) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 06:40:14 +1000 (GMT+1000) From: Trent Waddington To: Brett Glass Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , David Johnson , Subject: Re: Stallman stalls again In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010303132348.04461420@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 3 Mar 2001, Brett Glass wrote: > Not true! Barlow wasn't involved in computer technology at all until he > got on the Well and then went to the Hackers' Conference in 1985. By then, > Stallman was already ranting about GNU. Barlow picked up Stallman's views > about copyright at that time. (It's also where he met Mitch Kapor.) I > know; I was an organizer of the conference. Dude, the Grateful Dead were popularising tape trading before they were popular, circa 1973. Trent To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message