From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 22 3:39:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0FD537B405 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 03:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24740; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:39:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Damien Tougas Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C newbie needs help with kqueue References: <2042320000.995728574@sprig.tougas.net> <2203180000.995764168@sprig.tougas.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 22 Jul 2001 12:39:06 +0200 In-Reply-To: <2203180000.995764168@sprig.tougas.net> Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Damien Tougas writes: > Hey, thanks, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to figure > that one out. I'm surprised you din't catch it - you did the right thing a few lines earlier with fopen()... but I guess the moral of the story is to always compile with as many warnings enabled as practical. If you're using BSD-style Makefiles, try setting WARNS?=2 and fixing all the warnings that crop up (some may be non-obvious to fix - feel free to ask for help). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 23 10:33:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18AB37B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:33:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #7) id 15OjaF-0002F8-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:33:31 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6NHXVZ55151 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:33:31 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:33:31 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: stack use preference Message-ID: <20010723183331.A55127@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org For those of you who write or at one time wrote assembly language programs for the x86 cpus, what is your preference for local variable on the stack? Do you (a) push the esp down, then move esp to ebp and allocate memory for local vars above the esp? (b) move esp to ebp first, then push the esp down (c) real programmers don't need ebp for local vars. They calculate offsets from esp on the fly. :-) It seems (a) would be easier for humans, since all offsets, including procedure parameters, would be positive. However, compilers seem to generate type (b), so parameters are positive offsets from ebp, and local vars are negative. jcm -- o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o | ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 23 12:17:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C6537B403 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:17:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@havk.org) Received: from bsd.havk.org (user-24-214-56-224.knology.net [24.214.56.224]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6NJHUF23634 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:17:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: by bsd.havk.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9C0961A7B0; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:17:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:17:29 -0500 From: Steve Price To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Verizon woes Message-ID: <20010723141729.G75590@bsd.havk.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does anyone know what's up with Verizon's new policy? Supposedly at the end of the month everyone that uses one of their mailservers for outgoing mail will have to use somefoo@verizon.net as the From: header in every message. This is completely bogus unless they are aiming to take over the world and become another AOL. I know there are going to be some pretty mad folks so they ought to get quite a bit of flack over this. Let's suppose they do make it stick though. What other options are there besides addressing every message as being from @verizon.net? You could set the Reply-To: so replies go to the right place. You could probably convince someone to allow you to do pop-before-smtp and relay through their server. You could setup webmail and use it instead. You could setup your own mailserver and send messages through it. Anything else? What about all those small businesses out there that just want to send mail as @somecompany.com and have Verizon as their ISP. Thanks. -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 23 13:20: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E49F337B405 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:20:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6NKIVv01875; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:18:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010723183331.A55127@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:18:38 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: j mckitrick Subject: RE: stack use preference Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Jul-01 j mckitrick wrote: > > For those of you who write or at one time wrote assembly language programs > for the x86 cpus, what is your preference for local variable on the stack? > Do you > > (a) push the esp down, then move esp to ebp and allocate memory for local > vars above the esp? > > (b) move esp to ebp first, then push the esp down > > (c) real programmers don't need ebp for local vars. They calculate offsets > from esp on the fly. :-) > > It seems (a) would be easier for humans, since all offsets, including > procedure parameters, would be positive. > > However, compilers seem to generate type (b), so parameters are positive > offsets from ebp, and local vars are negative. (b), as you can walk back through stack traces when debugging by always looking at [ebp] to get the previous ebp, and [ebp+4] to get the previous IP. (Assuming you do the normal: push %ebp mov %esp, %ebp ... leave ret This is the convention used with the enter/leave 286+ instructions as well. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 23 13:43:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7293D37B409; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 15OmVX-000Eqv-00; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:40:51 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6NKeoY56806; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:40:50 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:40:50 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stack use preference Message-ID: <20010723214050.A56756@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010723183331.A55127@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@freebsd.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 01:18:38PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 01:18:38PM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: | | On 23-Jul-01 j mckitrick wrote: | > | > For those of you who write or at one time wrote assembly language programs | > for the x86 cpus, what is your preference for local variable on the stack? | > Do you | > | > (a) push the esp down, then move esp to ebp and allocate memory for local | > vars above the esp? | > | > (b) move esp to ebp first, then push the esp down | > | > (c) real programmers don't need ebp for local vars. They calculate offsets | > from esp on the fly. :-) | > | > It seems (a) would be easier for humans, since all offsets, including | > procedure parameters, would be positive. | > | > However, compilers seem to generate type (b), so parameters are positive | > offsets from ebp, and local vars are negative. | | (b), as you can walk back through stack traces when debugging by always looking | at [ebp] to get the previous ebp, and [ebp+4] to get the previous IP. | (Assuming you do the normal: | | push %ebp | mov %esp, %ebp | ... | leave | ret | | This is the convention used with the enter/leave 286+ instructions as well. I just realized my comment was completely obfuscated by the word 'push.' I said 'push down' when I meant decrement, thus pushing the esp down in memory. So the question (if it still stands) is do you subtract the space for local vars before or after moving esp to ebp? I've seen both ways in Win32 and Unix code. jcm -- o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o | ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 23 14: 7: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from riker.skynet.be (riker.skynet.be [195.238.3.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE72237B403 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:06:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by riker.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f6NL6WO11716; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:06:32 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010723141729.G75590@bsd.havk.org> References: <20010723141729.G75590@bsd.havk.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:03:55 +0200 To: Steve Price , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Verizon woes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 2:17 PM -0500 7/23/01, Steve Price wrote: > Let's suppose they do make it stick though. What other options > are there besides addressing every message as being from @verizon.net? This issue has come up recently on the dc.sage mailing list. I'll tell you the same thing I told them -- get another provider, now. From what I understand, Covad is in bad shape right now, presumably because they don't have enough customers. If enough of bloody tightwads would stop their griping and actually do something about the problem (i.e., vote with their feet and switch providers), then maybe Verizon would wake up and smell the manure. I've had Speakeasy highly recommended to me, and I believe that they are a Covad reseller. Now, everyone else can stop bitching until they've lived in a country where, by law, there can be one and only one *DSL provider (the former PTT), and where the entity in question completely owns the regulators so that they can rape the customers in any damn way they can see fit. Try Belgium on for size, and see how you like it. -- Brad Knowles, /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 23 14:54:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55CE437B40C for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:54:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6NLo1v03921; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:50:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010723214050.A56756@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:50:08 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: j mckitrick Subject: Re: stack use preference Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Jul-01 j mckitrick wrote: > On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 01:18:38PM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: >| >| On 23-Jul-01 j mckitrick wrote: >| > >| > For those of you who write or at one time wrote assembly language programs >| > for the x86 cpus, what is your preference for local variable on the stack? >| > Do you >| > >| > (a) push the esp down, then move esp to ebp and allocate memory for local >| > vars above the esp? >| > >| > (b) move esp to ebp first, then push the esp down >| > >| > (c) real programmers don't need ebp for local vars. They calculate >| > offsets >| > from esp on the fly. :-) >| > >| > It seems (a) would be easier for humans, since all offsets, including >| > procedure parameters, would be positive. >| > >| > However, compilers seem to generate type (b), so parameters are positive >| > offsets from ebp, and local vars are negative. >| >| (b), as you can walk back through stack traces when debugging by always >| looking >| at [ebp] to get the previous ebp, and [ebp+4] to get the previous IP. >| (Assuming you do the normal: >| >| push %ebp >| mov %esp, %ebp >| ... >| leave >| ret >| >| This is the convention used with the enter/leave 286+ instructions as well. > > I just realized my comment was completely obfuscated by the word 'push.' I > said 'push down' when I meant decrement, thus pushing the esp down in > memory. So the question (if it still stands) is do you subtract the space > for local vars before or after moving esp to ebp? I've seen both ways in > Win32 and Unix code. After. This way you can always get to the old frame at [ebp] and the IP of the previous frame at [ebp+4]. These constant offets are quite handy for walking back stack traces by hand. See the descriptions of the 286+ enter and leave instructions. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 23 16:28:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0265F37B405; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:28:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 15Op7Z-000IFe-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:28:17 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6NNSGL62328; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:28:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:28:16 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stack use preference Message-ID: <20010724002816.A62305@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010723214050.A56756@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@freebsd.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:50:08PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org | > memory. So the question (if it still stands) is do you subtract the space | > for local vars before or after moving esp to ebp? I've seen both ways in | > Win32 and Unix code. | | After. This way you can always get to the old frame at [ebp] and the IP of the | previous frame at [ebp+4]. These constant offets are quite handy for walking | back stack traces by hand. See the descriptions of the 286+ enter and leave | instructions. Hmmm. The argument I heard for moving esp to ebp before making room for local variables is that function parameters are accessible at positive offsets from esp, and all locals are negative. I guess that puts the previous IP and stack frame at [total space req'd by local vars + 0] and [+4] respectively. jcm -- o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o | ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 23 16:37:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC8E37B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:37:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6NNaVv06175; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:36:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010724002816.A62305@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:36:39 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: j mckitrick Subject: Re: stack use preference Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 23-Jul-01 j mckitrick wrote: >| > memory. So the question (if it still stands) is do you subtract the space >| > for local vars before or after moving esp to ebp? I've seen both ways in >| > Win32 and Unix code. >| >| After. This way you can always get to the old frame at [ebp] and the IP of >| the >| previous frame at [ebp+4]. These constant offets are quite handy for >| walking >| back stack traces by hand. See the descriptions of the 286+ enter and leave >| instructions. > > Hmmm. The argument I heard for moving esp to ebp before making room for > local variables is that function parameters are accessible at positive > offsets from esp, and all locals are negative. I guess that puts the > previous IP and stack frame at [total space req'd by local vars + 0] and > [+4] respectively. Right, and 'total space req'd by local vars' is an opaque value that you don't know when you are walking back through a stack dump. :( About like walking back on a stack dump on an alpha. Alpha's use a function prologue that define what registers are saved on the stack when a functoin is called, so you have to just look for addresses that "look right" in the dump. Nor can you do a traceback on the alpha w/o a symbole table, which we can do on x86 in ddb for example. (Alpha also doesn't push the frame pointer, but that is another matter). -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 23 17:25:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F16C37B403 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:25:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id BE4626ACD1; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:55:16 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:55:16 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: j mckitrick Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stack use preference Message-ID: <20010724095516.F75783@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20010723183331.A55127@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010723183331.A55127@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 06:33:31PM +0100 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 23 July 2001 at 18:33:31 +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > > For those of you who write or at one time wrote assembly language programs > for the x86 cpus, what is your preference for local variable on the stack? > Do you > > (a) push the esp down, then move esp to ebp and allocate memory for local > vars above the esp? > > (b) move esp to ebp first, then push the esp down > > (c) real programmers don't need ebp for local vars. They calculate offsets > from esp on the fly. :-) > > It seems (a) would be easier for humans, since all offsets, including > procedure parameters, would be positive. > > However, compilers seem to generate type (b), so parameters are positive > offsets from ebp, and local vars are negative. OK, I've read the responses, but none of them seem to get the point. We're talking about local variables here, not another stack frame. In this case, ebp should remain unchanged. Having said that, only (c) remains. If you really want to create a new stack frame (which means that you will not be able to access the current one, and you'll have to clean up on exit), it makes sense to use (b), since that's what compilers do. I think gdb also recognizes the prologue and sets breakpoints "at the beginning of the function" after the prologue, so that you can at least see the stack correctly. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 23 18:27: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 011C437B407; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 15OqyR-000Ks5-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 02:26:59 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6O1Qwl63388; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 02:26:58 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 02:26:58 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: stack use preference Message-ID: <20010724022658.A63186@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010723183331.A55127@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010724095516.F75783@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20010724095516.F75783@wantadilla.lemis.com>; from grog@FreeBSD.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 09:55:16AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 09:55:16AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: | On Monday, 23 July 2001 at 18:33:31 +0100, j mckitrick wrote: | > | > For those of you who write or at one time wrote assembly language programs | > for the x86 cpus, what is your preference for local variable on the stack? | > Do you | > | > (a) push the esp down, then move esp to ebp and allocate memory for local | > vars above the esp? | > | > (b) move esp to ebp first, then push the esp down | > | > (c) real programmers don't need ebp for local vars. They calculate offsets | > from esp on the fly. :-) | > | > It seems (a) would be easier for humans, since all offsets, including | > procedure parameters, would be positive. | > | > However, compilers seem to generate type (b), so parameters are positive | > offsets from ebp, and local vars are negative. | | OK, I've read the responses, but none of them seem to get the point. | We're talking about local variables here, not another stack frame. In | this case, ebp should remain unchanged. Having said that, only (c) | remains. IIUC, here is what happens: foo: ; (int i, char *s) push %ebp ; save current stack frame mov %esp, %ebp ; make a new one at the current stack pointer sub $8, %ebp ; make space for local vars mov 8(%ebp), ebx; get char * param mov 4(%ebp), eax; get int param [...] leave ret ; same as ??? mov %ebp, %esp ; reset stack pointer pop %ebp ; restore old frame ret main: push %eax ; char * push %ebx ; int call foo [...] sorry for any inconsistent notation, i'm a transplanted 68000 guy. ;-) | | If you really want to create a new stack frame (which means that you | will not be able to access the current one, and you'll have to clean | up on exit), it makes sense to use (b), since that's what compilers | do. I think gdb also recognizes the prologue and sets breakpoints "at | the beginning of the function" after the prologue, so that you can at | least see the stack correctly. | | Greg | -- | See complete headers for address and phone numbers jcm -- o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o | ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 24 11:55:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0CEB37B403; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:55:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6OIsEv22305; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:54:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010724022658.A63186@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:54:18 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: j mckitrick Subject: Re: stack use preference Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org, Greg Lehey Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24-Jul-01 j mckitrick wrote: > IIUC, here is what happens: > > foo: ; (int i, char *s) > push %ebp ; save current stack frame > mov %esp, %ebp ; make a new one at the current stack pointer > sub $8, %ebp ; make space for local vars > mov 8(%ebp), ebx; get char * param > mov 4(%ebp), eax; get int param > [...] > leave > ret > ; same as ??? > mov %ebp, %esp ; reset stack pointer > pop %ebp ; restore old frame > ret Yes. On x86, doing enter $8, $0 ; 8 bytes of local storage is equivalent to: push %ebp mov %esp, %ebp sub $8, %esp but most compilers that I've seen unroll 'enter' rather than using it directly. *shrug* Thus, you could do: foo: enter $8, $0 mov 12(%ebp), %ebx ; get char * param mov 8(%ebp), %eax ; get int param ; note that 4(%ebp) is the saved IP, not a param ... leave ret > main: > push %eax ; char * > push %ebx ; int > call foo > [...] -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 24 12: 2:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B77137B401; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:02:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #7) id 15P7SG-000Kc4-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:02:52 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6OJ2p872852; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:02:51 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:02:51 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Greg Lehey Subject: Re: stack use preference Message-ID: <20010724200251.A72789@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010724022658.A63186@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@freebsd.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 11:54:18AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org | Yes. On x86, doing | | enter $8, $0 ; 8 bytes of local storage | | is equivalent to: | | push %ebp | mov %esp, %ebp | sub $8, %esp | | but most compilers that I've seen unroll 'enter' rather than using it directly. | *shrug* From what I have discovered, 'enter' uses more cycles than the corresponding instructions, and yet 'leave' does not. | | Thus, you could do: | | foo: | enter $8, $0 | mov 12(%ebp), %ebx ; get char * param | mov 8(%ebp), %eax ; get int param | ; note that 4(%ebp) is the saved IP, not a param | ... | leave | ret | | > main: | > push %eax ; char * | > push %ebx ; int | > call foo | > [...] | | -- | | John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ | PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc | "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ jcm -- o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o | ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jonathon McKitrick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | "I prefer the term 'Artificial Person' myself." | o-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-o To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 24 12:14:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB7437B405; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:14:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6OJDNv22533; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010724200251.A72789@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:13:28 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: j mckitrick Subject: Re: stack use preference Cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24-Jul-01 j mckitrick wrote: >| Yes. On x86, doing >| >| enter $8, $0 ; 8 bytes of local storage >| >| is equivalent to: >| >| push %ebp >| mov %esp, %ebp >| sub $8, %esp >| >| but most compilers that I've seen unroll 'enter' rather than using it >| directly. >| *shrug* > > From what I have discovered, 'enter' uses more cycles than the corresponding > instructions, and yet 'leave' does not. That is what I seem to recall as well. On the 386, enter $8, $0 would take 10 cycles, whereas the separate instructions would take 2 + 2 + 2 = 6 cycles. Granted these instructions all have RAW dependencies, and I'm not sure if that would wreak havoc in the form of register stalls on 686+ or not which might drown out the 1 or 2 cycles saved on 686+. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 25 12: 6:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from waterski.co.kr (unknown [211.47.208.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6737B37B403 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:06:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newbiz@freechal.com) Received: (qmail 13087 invoked by alias); 25 Jul 2001 14:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stw) (211.211.74.121) by 211.47.208.116 with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 14:41:47 -0000 To: 민트메일@FreeBSD.ORG From: newbiz@freechal.com Subject: 무료가입으로 영어와 돈벌이를........ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:41:55 +0900 Message-Id: <37097.987445833337600.9308@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=euc-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ◆영어메일(email)1개읽을때마다12,500원을줍니다.확실히보장합니다...◆
◆ 영어 메일(email) 1개 읽을 때 마다 12,500원을 줍니다. 확실히 보장합니다... ◆

우연히 이 메세지를 발견하고나서 무심코 가입했지요.                   &nb sp;                         
영어라 읽는데 조금 시간걸리지만 일단 가입하고 볼 일입니다. 돈 드는게 없거든요...

그런데 가입한지12일이 지나고 나서 집으로 외국에서 송금환이 날라왔더군요. 놀랍게도 외환은행에서 바꾸니까 582,000원이나 되더라구요. 송금환을 바꾸는 수수료 2,500원을 빼고 말이죠.                   &nb sp;   
근데 이건 정말로 좋은 점이 생긴지 얼마 안됐기 때문에 회원이 별로 없어 추천인을 만들기도 쉽고 지금 가입하면 상위회원이 되기때문에 제 밑으로 저절로 회원이 들어옵니다.                   &nb sp;                    
저도 저번달에 돈받았을때는 회원이 11명이였는데 그중2명은 미국인이였고 한명은 캐나다 사람이었습니다.                   &nb sp;                                     &nb sp;                                     &nb sp;                                     &nb sp;     
제 추천인이 생길때마다 메일로 알려주거든요.                   &nb sp;                                     &nb sp;                      
확실히 보장합니다. 100%믿으셔도 좋습니다. 후회없는 선택하세요.                   &nb sp;                             

추천인 고를 필요 없는 막 신설된 싸이트                   &nb sp;         
추천인이 저절로 생겨서 가만히 앉아서 돈 버는 그런 사이트

*****************************************
http://www.mintmail.com/?m=672274       
*****************************************

위 사이트로 가세요~~~ 뒷번호도 같아야합니다 꼭
여기 엄청나요 저도 돈버는 싸이트 꽤 가봤는데.. 여긴 첨..
아직 울나라사람 150명정도밖에 가입안했대요 빨리하는사람이 임자.
거기다가 추천인도 자동으로 생긴답니다.
너무 열심히 안해도 돈이 척척..제 밑으로 들어오심 먼저 가입한
사람보다 더 위의 위치에 있게 됩니다.
굉장하지 않나여? 추천인이 자동으로 생긴다니..

doghouse.wmf간단하게 말씀드리죠.
민트메일에서 월 10$어치의 메일이 옵니다.읽어만주면 10$를 우편으로
보냅니다. 12500원 정도 돼겠죠? 별거 아니죠?
문제는 이제 부터입니다. 님이 모은 회원이10$를 받으면 님은 6$를
받습니다.그회원이 모은 회원이 10$를 받으면 님이 4$를 받습니다.
자 그러면 님이 20명의 회원을 모집했다고 하면 6x20=120$죠?
그 회원이 20명씩 모으면 4x40=1600$ 죠? 120+1600= 1720$죠?
1$가 1200원이라고 가정했을 때 1200x1720=
얼마죠?
님이 계산해 보세요.
거기에 님이 읽은 메일머니를 합치지 않아도 님은 200만 이상은 거뜬히
버는 겁니다.
회원 모집이 어렵다구요?
아닙니다. 지금 캐쉬퍼 ,샌드모어 , 등등 의 싸이트와 완전히
다르기때문에 회원이 폭주 하고 있습니다. 모르는 사람이 태반입니다.
님 이 한번 모집해 보시면 잘알겁니다.

****************************************
 http://www.mintmail.com/?m=672274     
****************************************

!!! 내년에 한글로 번역되어 들어오면 대박입니다. !!!

지금 빨리 하시는게 좋습니다 내년에 들어오는 회원은
지금 가입하는 회원들의 하위 회원이 되므로 지금가입하면 앉아서 돈벌 수 있습니다.
잊지 마세요 평생 돈을 고정적으로 보내준다는걸요..
여러분도 도전해 보세요 기회을 잡는자는 성공 합니다
자 , 본론으로 들어가서....

▼일반 가입자 상황에서 추천인 한명당 12.5달라 또는 추천인 한명당.
   25달라를 벌 수 있습니다. 이 사이트 외에

추천인 만으로 돈을 벌 수 있는 사이트는 없는 것으로 생각됩니다.
하지만. 추천인은 자동으로 생깁니다
이 마켓팅은 한줄로 내려갑니다 무조건 선착순이며,
자기가 직접 가입시킨 추천인 없이도 자기 아래에 다운은 자동 형성됩니다. 다운은 1주일 이면 3-4명씩 생깁니다
전 벌써 1주일 되었는데 30명 가까이 됩니다
아마 1년이면 2000 여명으로 예상됩니다. 물론 가입하는 건 무료구요 .
일반 가입자 상황에서두 추천인 한명당 12.5달라 , 3달라의 이윤을 남길 수 있습니다.

이 사이트는 외국사이트이기 때문에 자기 아래 다운이 외국인일 경우가 많으며. 이들 외국인들이 각기 외국사이트에 홍보하게 되면 국내 추천인보다는 국외추천인이 보다 많이 생길 수가 있죠.
일단 국내에 지급된지 얼마 안되었기 때문에 바로 지금 가입하시는게 유리합니다.
일단 가입하신 후에 천천히 둘러 보셔두 늦지 않을 것으로 생각됩니다.
가입은 무료이기 때문에 님에게 손해 될건 아무것도 없습니다.

*****************************************
 http://www.mintmail.com/?m=672274      
*****************************************                   &nb sp;                         cake.wmf
 

*** 회원모집방법은?***

위의 주소를 복사해서 주소적는대다가 붙어넣기 하세여.
뒤의 숫자까지 다 복사해야 추천인이 자동 등록 됩니다.
(안그러면 가입이 안되요^^;; )

이곳을 클릭 하시면 오른쪽 맨위에 클릭하는 부분이 보입니다. (sign-up)
그걸 클릭하면 아래글이 뜨거든요? 제가 쉽게 가입하는 방법을
적어놨으니 아래에 설명대로만 하면 됩니다
(*표시부분만 정확히 잘 쓰시면 됩니다.)

- First Name*; 이름 (예; 길동 Kildong)                   &nb sp;                      
- Last Name*: 성 (예; 홍 hong)                   &nb sp;                                
- Company Name: 비워두세요                   &nb sp;                                
- Street Address*: 집주소(자세히 작성할 것, 이곳으로 수표를        
보내줍니다.)                   &nb sp;                                     &nb sp;                      
예)동작구 사당1동 우성아파트 101동 110호라면:                   &nb sp;       
Woosung Apt 101-110 Sadang1-dong Dongjak-Gu                       
(우리나라 집배원이 알아볼수 있게끔만 적으면 됩니다.)                 
- City*: 도시명(예; seoul)                   &nb sp;                                     &nb sp;  
- State*: 그대로 두세요                   &nb sp;                                     &nb sp;     
- Zip*: 우편번호 000-000                   &nb sp;                                     &nb sp;   
- Country*: 나라 Korea- Republic of 선택                   &nb sp;                
- Phone*:국가번호(한국):82 + 지역번호 앞 0번을 뺀 전화번호        
예)02-342-1110 → 82-2-342-1110                   &nb sp;                            
- Fax:팩스 안 적어도됨                   &nb sp;                                     &nb sp;     
- E-mail*: 메일 ( 모든건 메일로 처리되므로 정확히 쓰세요 )          
- Confirm E-mail*: 이멜주소 다시입력 *****                   &nb sp;              
- Year of birth*: 출생년도 예)1970, 1980                   &nb sp;                    
- Gender*: 체크하세요! 성별 Male(낭성), Femaie(여성)                 
- Password*: 비밀번호입력 (6자이상)******                   &nb sp;             
- Confirm Password: 비밀번호 확인, 위와 똑같이******                 
- how do you want to receive commissions that you earn?           
무엇으로 커미션 받기를 원하세요?                   &nb sp;                            
*gift certificates(double$$) 선물권(2배) *cash 현금                   &nb sp;   
위에서 선물권으로 받으면 두배가 되지만 제품의 종류가                 
영어로된 책,테잎,CD등이므로 한국사람들은 현금을                   &nb sp;   
선택하는 것이 좋을 것 같네요. cash에 체크하세요.                   &nb sp;   
- do you want to be notified when your referrals sing up?              
*당신의 회원이 등록했을때 알려주길 원합니까? yes 선택               
- MintMail.com........흥미있는분야 10개까지 선택할수 있습니다.     
최대 10개 까지 선택 하세요                   &nb sp;                                     &nb sp;
- Submit 를 클릭 하면 화면에서 thank you라는 메시지와               
함께 ID(번호)와 PASSWORD(본인의암호)가 나타납니다.                
잘 적어두세요!!!! 그럼 가입 완료 입니다.                   &nb sp;                  
그런 다음 5분이내에 당신의 E-mail로 편지가 옵니다.                   &nb sp; 

*****회원 모집방법은?*****                 
   ;                  &n bsp;                   ;                 
**** ***********************************
http://www.mintmail.com/?m=672274    
***************************************

마지막 아이디(번호)부분을 민트메일 가입후에 부여받은
아이디로 바꿔서 홍보하시면 본인이 자동으로 추천됩니다.

**홍보방법은?
각사이트 게시판에 위의 모든내용을 아이디만 바꿔서 그대로 복사한후
게시하면 됩니다.
이 어려운 시대 이런좋은 방법으로 돈을번다는 아이디어는
사실 획기적이라 할 수 있습니다.

그것도 외화를 벌어들이는 일이죠
저도 요즘 토플 공부하고 있는데
도움이 많이 되요..여러 방면의 소식 이야기들을
매일 영어로 이멜로 보내 주니까 영어 공부도 되고
상식도 넓어져요.토플은 상식도 많이 필요하잖아요.                 cellularphone_a.wmf
적극 추천합니다.정말 후회 안하실 거에요.
꼭 돈이 아니라도 ..돈 뿐만 아니라 다른 것도
많이 얻으 실수 있답니다..

** 메일을 읽어 주셔서 감사합니다... **

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 26 8: 7:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guru.mired.org (okc-27-141-144.mmcable.com [24.27.141.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DFE4A37B41C for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:07:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: (qmail 17772 invoked by uid 100); 26 Jul 2001 15:07:46 -0000 From: Mike Meyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15200.12866.610688.577563@guru.mired.org> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:07:46 -0500 To: Laurence Berland Reply-To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: OT: PayPaI Cash Give-Away In-Reply-To: References: <15199.51374.425090.470755@guru.mired.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.90 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Replies have been pointed to -chat, as this really is OT for -questions.] Laurence Berland types: > Well, hopefully PayPal takes the page down, and cancels the transactions > for these people. If not, the few people who already paid can dispute > charges on their credit card bills I suppose. If you reverse a charge on a credit card bill - or on an ACH transaction - PayPal will *automatically* restrict your account, meaning there is no way to move money out of it - or even close it - until you've jumped through a rather inane set of hoops. Their so-called support seems to be designed to keep money locked into their system, not to actually solve any problems. At times the same action on your part will cause different parts of their system to do different - and sometimes contradictory - things. The four months of agony the caused me after they accidently double-billed a transaction are enough that I'll never do business through them again. Things are finally straightened out as far as I'm concerned, but last time I looked they had taken money from the person I sent the money to, claiming I said I never received the merchandise even though I never said any such thing. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 27 6:27:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns5.pacific.net.au (ns5.pacific.net.au [203.143.252.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6306237B406 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 06:27:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mckay@thehub.com.au) Received: from dungeon.home (ppp17.dyn248.pacific.net.au [203.143.248.17]) by ns5.pacific.net.au (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA05277 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 23:27:33 +1000 (EST) Received: from dungeon.home (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dungeon.home (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6RDScq34621; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 23:28:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from mckay) Message-Id: <200107271328.f6RDScq34621@dungeon.home> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: mckay@thehub.com.au Subject: Most BSD-like and games-friendly Linux? Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 23:28:38 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What do you do when you want to play action games? I'm talking heavy 3D OpenGL graphics, not just xbill. :-) At the moment I have to use that unmentionable OS from Redmond, and though it crashes and is generally stupid, it usually delivers enough action gaming to satisfy. But is there an alternative? My first choice would be FreeBSD, of course, but I've had not a great deal of success with FreeBSD and 3D action gaming. XP is coming soon, and I want to not even have the displeasure of installing it even once, not even for a taste. That leaves a Linux distro. But which one? I'm interested in opinions on the most game friendly, and most BSD-like Linux distro around. I've got a Geforce2 in an Athlon box and want to try Quake and Unreal and such. I want to install and play, not debug the Linuxulator or hopeless game install scripts. I want nVidia's display driver to just work without tricks. That sort of thing. Anyone willing to admit to being a Linux gaming expert on a FreeBSD list? :-) Stephen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 27 6:50:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from square.cnd.mcgill.ca (square.CND.McGill.CA [132.206.114.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E44E37B405 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 06:50:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mat@square.cnd.mcgill.ca) Received: (from mat@localhost) by square.cnd.mcgill.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18420; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:50:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mat) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:50:25 -0400 From: Mathew Kanner To: Stephen McKay Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Most BSD-like and games-friendly Linux? Message-ID: <20010727095025.C18294@cnd.mcgill.ca> References: <200107271328.f6RDScq34621@dungeon.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: Stephen McKay's message [Most BSD-like and games-friendly Linux?] as of Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:28:38PM +1000 Organization: I speak for myself, operating in Montreal, CANADA Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jul 27, Stephen McKay wrote: > [...] > Anyone willing to admit to being a Linux gaming expert on a FreeBSD > list? :-) I admit to nothing! Ok, I do look at wine every once in a while. They receive contributions from http://www.transgaming.com/ who are dedicated to making Windows games work in unix. I think they offer a subscription service where you can vote to which game they work on next. --Mat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 27 7:20: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl (wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl [131.155.56.216]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B12537B405 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:20:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karelj@wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl) Received: (from karelj@localhost) by wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f6REJLD64746; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:19:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from karelj) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:19:21 +0200 From: "Karel J. Bosschaart" To: Stephen McKay Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Most BSD-like and games-friendly Linux? Message-ID: <20010727161921.A64682@wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl> References: <200107271328.f6RDScq34621@dungeon.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200107271328.f6RDScq34621@dungeon.home>; from mckay@thehub.com.au on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:28:38PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:28:38PM +1000, Stephen McKay wrote: > What do you do when you want to play action games? I'm talking heavy > 3D OpenGL graphics, not just xbill. :-) > I have the Linux versions of Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 Arena and Soldier of Fortune, and I play them in FreeBSD. Loki does a good job when it comes to playing in compatibility mode :-). Their demo installer works fine on FreeBSD. > My first choice would be FreeBSD, of course, but I've had not a great deal > of success with FreeBSD and 3D action gaming. XP is coming soon, and I Yes, it can be a PITA to get hardware acceleration going properly in FreeBSD. If you're interested in the latest news you can look here: http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~eanholt/dri/ > want to not even have the displeasure of installing it even once, not > even for a taste. That leaves a Linux distro. But which one? > > I'm interested in opinions on the most game friendly, and most BSD-like > Linux distro around. I've got a Geforce2 in an Athlon box and want to > try Quake and Unreal and such. I want to install and play, not debug > the Linuxulator or hopeless game install scripts. I want nVidia's > display driver to just work without tricks. That sort of thing. > At the moment I have Slackware, which I like much much more than RedHat. I think that Slackware is the most BSD-like Linux, but I only have limited experience with Linux distros. I hear good stories about Debian (never tried it myself). But still, I'm mostly playing games in FreeBSD... > Anyone willing to admit to being a Linux gaming expert on a FreeBSD list? :-) > Hmmm, would be a funny question to ask on a Linux forum what distro is best for gaming :-). Karel. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 27 7:25:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A90737B405 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:25:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from Atlanta.threespace.com ([24.21.224.204]) by femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010727142522.SNZO9984.femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Atlanta.threespace.com>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:25:22 -0700 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010727101140.03130ba0@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:25:07 -0400 To: Stephen McKay From: Technical Information Subject: Re: Most BSD-like and games-friendly Linux? Cc: FreeBSD Chat In-Reply-To: <200107271328.f6RDScq34621@dungeon.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [rising from his seat in the circle] Hello everyone. My name is Chip, and I am a Linux user. [everyone in group chimes in "Hi, Chip."] I haven't yet become a Linux gaming expert, but I do have a stack of commercial Linux games waiting for me to take a swipe at installing them. So far, I just haven't had the time, and after Quake III choked Red Hat Linux 7.1, I realized that there was going to be some debugging involved, so I'm waiting until I can really dedicate some time to it. I use Red Hat largely because it's a good distribution with the best support from software vendors. But there ain't really nothing BSD about it. I hear that Debian has a BSD-ish philosophy even if they don't have a BSD style, but that's nothing that I can confirm. Of course I will point out that even on true Linux my experiences have been "iffy." I've had about as much success with commercial products on the Linuxulator as I have on very up-to-date versions of Linux. The state of gaming on Linux is about like gaming on Windows 95 back in early 1996. (Remember DirectX 2.0? Brrrr.) Linux just doesn't have things like the standard installer and the mature, highly tested graphics libraries that Windows now has. Sometimes having one dominant member to focus the group is a good thing. Anyway, that's my experience so far. When I get around to installing/playing these games, I'll let you know. --Chip Morton At 09:28 AM 7/27/2001, you wrote: >What do you do when you want to play action games? I'm talking heavy >3D OpenGL graphics, not just xbill. :-) > >At the moment I have to use that unmentionable OS from Redmond, and though >it crashes and is generally stupid, it usually delivers enough action >gaming to satisfy. But is there an alternative? > >My first choice would be FreeBSD, of course, but I've had not a great deal >of success with FreeBSD and 3D action gaming. XP is coming soon, and I >want to not even have the displeasure of installing it even once, not >even for a taste. That leaves a Linux distro. But which one? > >I'm interested in opinions on the most game friendly, and most BSD-like >Linux distro around. I've got a Geforce2 in an Athlon box and want to >try Quake and Unreal and such. I want to install and play, not debug >the Linuxulator or hopeless game install scripts. I want nVidia's >display driver to just work without tricks. That sort of thing. > >Anyone willing to admit to being a Linux gaming expert on a FreeBSD list? :-) > >Stephen. > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 27 8:53:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns5.pacific.net.au (ns5.pacific.net.au [203.143.252.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E7AD37B403 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:53:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mckay@thehub.com.au) Received: from dungeon.home (ppp17.dyn248.pacific.net.au [203.143.248.17]) by ns5.pacific.net.au (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA11371; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:53:42 +1000 (EST) Received: from dungeon.home (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dungeon.home (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6RFslq37181; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:54:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from mckay) Message-Id: <200107271554.f6RFslq37181@dungeon.home> To: "Karel J. Bosschaart" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, mckay@thehub.com.au Subject: Re: Most BSD-like and games-friendly Linux? References: <200107271328.f6RDScq34621@dungeon.home> <20010727161921.A64682@wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl> In-Reply-To: <20010727161921.A64682@wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl> from "Karel J. Bosschaart" at "Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:19:21 +0200" Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:54:47 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 27th July 2001, "Karel J. Bosschaart" wrote: >On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:28:38PM +1000, Stephen McKay wrote: >> What do you do when you want to play action games? I'm talking heavy >> 3D OpenGL graphics, not just xbill. :-) >> >I have the Linux versions of Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 Arena and >Soldier of Fortune, and I play them in FreeBSD. Loki does a good job >when it comes to playing in compatibility mode :-). Their demo installer >works fine on FreeBSD. You're talking software only mode, right? That's not going to do it for me. >> My first choice would be FreeBSD, of course, but I've had not a great deal >> of success with FreeBSD and 3D action gaming. XP is coming soon, and I > >Yes, it can be a PITA to get hardware acceleration going properly in >FreeBSD. If you're interested in the latest news you can look here: >http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~eanholt/dri/ Interesting link. They reference a FreeBSD group desperately attempting to get the nVidia Linux driver working under FreeBSD. That's a reason to switch from Windoze to Linux for gaming instead. >I think that Slackware is the most BSD-like Linux... Slackware is looking good so far. >> Anyone willing to admit to being a Linux gaming expert on a FreeBSD list? :-) >> >Hmmm, would be a funny question to ask on a Linux forum what distro is best >for gaming :-). I'm after a lighter roasting than that! ;-) Stephen. PS Just in case anyone thinks I'm ragging on the Linuxulator, I've had a really good time with it for most things. But not for games. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 27 8:56:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns5.pacific.net.au (ns5.pacific.net.au [203.143.252.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00BB37B407 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mckay@thehub.com.au) Received: from dungeon.home (ppp17.dyn248.pacific.net.au [203.143.248.17]) by ns5.pacific.net.au (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA11505; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:56:28 +1000 (EST) Received: from dungeon.home (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dungeon.home (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6RFvXq37205; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:57:33 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from mckay) Message-Id: <200107271557.f6RFvXq37205@dungeon.home> To: Mathew Kanner Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, mckay@thehub.com.au Subject: Re: Most BSD-like and games-friendly Linux? References: <200107271328.f6RDScq34621@dungeon.home> <20010727095025.C18294@cnd.mcgill.ca> In-Reply-To: <20010727095025.C18294@cnd.mcgill.ca> from Mathew Kanner at "Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:50:25 -0400" Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:57:33 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 27th July 2001, Mathew Kanner wrote: > Ok, I do look at wine every once in a while. They receive >contributions from http://www.transgaming.com/ who are dedicated to >making Windows games work in unix. I think they offer a subscription >service where you can vote to which game they work on next. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't I have to have native OpenGL working before Wine will do accelerated graphics? Or does Wine get to play directly with the graphics hardware? (That sounds as bad as running real Windoze!) Stephen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 27 10: 2:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (heorot.1nova.com [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B7437B401 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:02:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@1nova.com) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6943B18E0; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BA818DF; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:01:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hamell To: Stephen McKay Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Most BSD-like and games-friendly Linux? In-Reply-To: <200107271554.f6RFslq37181@dungeon.home> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > PS Just in case anyone thinks I'm ragging on the Linuxulator, I've had > a really good time with it for most things. But not for games. That strikes me as weird. The Loki guys have stated in the forums many times that most their games work BETTER under FreeBSD's Linux compatibility mode then they do under Linux. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 27 11: 2:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl (wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl [131.155.56.216]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D3237B403 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:02:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karelj@wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl) Received: (from karelj@localhost) by wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f6RI21w65645; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:02:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from karelj) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:02:01 +0200 From: "Karel J. Bosschaart" To: Stephen McKay Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Most BSD-like and games-friendly Linux? Message-ID: <20010727200201.A65603@wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl> References: <200107271328.f6RDScq34621@dungeon.home> <20010727161921.A64682@wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl> <200107271554.f6RFslq37181@dungeon.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200107271554.f6RFslq37181@dungeon.home>; from mckay@thehub.com.au on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 01:54:47AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 01:54:47AM +1000, Stephen McKay wrote: > On Friday, 27th July 2001, "Karel J. Bosschaart" wrote: > > >On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:28:38PM +1000, Stephen McKay wrote: > >> What do you do when you want to play action games? I'm talking heavy > >> 3D OpenGL graphics, not just xbill. :-) > >> > >I have the Linux versions of Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 Arena and > >Soldier of Fortune, and I play them in FreeBSD. Loki does a good job > >when it comes to playing in compatibility mode :-). Their demo installer > >works fine on FreeBSD. > > You're talking software only mode, right? That's not going to do it for me. > I'm mostly playing with Voodoo2, in SLI mode (that's 2 cards working together). In XFree86-4.0.1 I also had my G400 card working, although I didn't manage to play Unreal Tournament with it. Quake 3 was fine though. I will give it another try soon using the bsd cvs branch of DRI. Some time ago I started to put my gaming experiences in FreeBSD on the web http://wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl/freebsd/index.html, but I didn't have time to finish or maintain it :-(. Well, maybe later... Karel. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 27 11:17:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl (wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl [131.155.56.216]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D5937B403 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:17:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karelj@wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl) Received: (from karelj@localhost) by wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f6RIGuE65687; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:16:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from karelj) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:16:56 +0200 From: "Karel J. Bosschaart" To: Rick Hamell Cc: Stephen McKay , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Most BSD-like and games-friendly Linux? Message-ID: <20010727201656.B65603@wop21.wop.wtb.tue.nl> References: <200107271554.f6RFslq37181@dungeon.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from hamellr@heorot.1nova.com on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 10:01:38AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 10:01:38AM -0700, Rick Hamell wrote: > > > PS Just in case anyone thinks I'm ragging on the Linuxulator, I've had > > a really good time with it for most things. But not for games. > > That strikes me as weird. The Loki guys have stated in the forums > many times that most their games work BETTER under FreeBSD's Linux > compatibility mode then they do under Linux. > Yes, but it can be hard to get hardware acceleration going on FreeBSD. Well, it can be done of course, but it involves more than the usual 'make install' ;-), and DRI is still in development actually. The fine thing though is: once it works, it simply works. And if it breaks, there are useful clues in logfiles to find the problem. When I was playing the Deus Ex demo in Windows 98, it suddenly crashed and it didn't want to start anymore. So then I'm supposed to reinstall the demo, and if that doesn't work, reinstall DirectX, and/or the newest video driver, etc. I didn't even consider it but decided to wait for the Linux version. I can't have fun knowing that things can unexpectedly break and that I only can do wild guesses in repairing it. Karel. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 28 4:24:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mydomain.com (t3o102p2.telia.com [194.255.255.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B1D37B406; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 04:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from world1web@www.com) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:24:44 +0100 From: WORLD1-WEB To: WORLD1-WEB@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: INCREDIBLE .. WORLDS NO.1 !! Message-Id: <20010728112446.88B1D37B406@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ladies & Gentlemen, Are you ready to the experience of a lifetime ? As affiliates of the CIL group, we offer you to PLUGIN to the largest SEX-SERVER on the WEB, in order to get more than 3000 MegaBytes of the best and most sensational SEX on the entire Web! Why on earth do you think that thousands of people from 13 countries daily choose to visit 2 particular WebSites ? Very EASY answer! - The largest and most incredible content of LIVE SEX is offered! - State-of-the-art LIVE SHOWS with the wildest and most horny amateurs and pornstars in the world! - Hardcore LIVE SEX that hasn큧 crossed your imagination! - Incredible & amazing themes from soft sex to the most bizarre sex! - Beautiful Girls & wild studs from almost every country, allowing you to watch, see & chat with awsome amateurs & pornstars who are blond, who are black, who are Scandinavian, who are Asian, who have BIG tits, who are shaved, who are pregnant who are .... you just name it ! - The best ever made SPY-CAMS, WATCH-CAMS, POOL-CAMS, SHOWER-CAMS, AMATEUR-CAMS ... etc! - Several high quality Interactive Cams & LIVE SEX Chat, where you are in controle ! - Much much more ... too much to mention ! EVERYTHING is offered 100% ANONOMOUSLY & you don큧 need to sign-up or have a creditcard ... How simple is that ? PLUGIN now to our MEGA SEX-SERVER through any of the 2 AwardWinning Sites listed below, and get instantly access to more than 3000 MegaBytes of State-of-the-art WebSex! RIGHT HERE AT: http://siam.to/sexywebtv (This Site just has EVERYTHING you can imagine) ... If this Site does not open properly ... please try http://cyberu.to/hotweb Or this one, if you just love true LESBIAN SEX, CHAT and MORE from Sunny Ibiza in Spain: http://siam.to/sexybabestv ... If this Site does not open properly ... please try http://cyberu.to/hotbabes Enjoy your trip to paradise! VERY IMPORTANT HINT: To get DIRECT ACCESS to the webpages in the future, ALLWAYS keep the DIALER on your desktop or elsewhere on your PC ... Its easy, small and 100% harmless. Yours sincerely, WORLD1-WEB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message