From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 26 10:10:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B7937B407 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:10:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13673 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010826110635.057b5ca0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:09:59 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: How is 4.4-RELEASE shaping up? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I haven't been able to follow the progress of the 4.4 release candidates, but after reading some of the postings on the -STABLE mailing list, I wonder whether it'll be a good idea to upgrade production machines to 4.4-RELEASE. What do folks think? Will this release be a good milestone? Or will it pay to wait until 4.5, or at least a snapshot between 4.4 and 4.5? Frank feedback on the strong and weak areas of 4.4 as it stands now would be appreciated. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 26 13:46:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE5B37B410 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:46:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b050.otenet.gr [195.167.121.178]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id f7QKkXC06143; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:46:34 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.4) id f7QHkgd25591; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:46:42 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:46:40 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How is 4.4-RELEASE shaping up? Message-ID: <20010826204640.B14652@hades.hell.gr> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010826110635.057b5ca0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010826110635.057b5ca0@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:09:59AM -0600 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Brett Glass Subject: How is 4.4-RELEASE shaping up? Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:09:59AM -0600 > I haven't been able to follow the progress of the 4.4 release candidates, > but after reading some of the postings on the -STABLE mailing list, I > wonder whether it'll be a good idea to upgrade production machines to > 4.4-RELEASE. What do folks think? Will this release be a good milestone? > Or will it pay to wait until 4.5, or at least a snapshot between 4.4 and > 4.5? Frank feedback on the strong and weak areas of 4.4 as it stands now > would be appreciated. Am probably being paranoid here, but a -RELEASE is never good enough for production machines. I would wait until a .2 release comes out, and only then use a 'test box' to install and see how things will work for me. If things work nicely in that test box, only then upgrade the machines running older stuff. -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 26 14:32:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A0E437B407 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.135.64.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.135.64]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18019; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B896B00.6E40731F@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:32:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How is 4.4-RELEASE shaping up? References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010826110635.057b5ca0@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > I haven't been able to follow the progress of the 4.4 release candidates, > but after reading some of the postings on the -STABLE mailing list, I > wonder whether it'll be a good idea to upgrade production machines to > 4.4-RELEASE. What do folks think? Will this release be a good milestone? > Or will it pay to wait until 4.5, or at least a snapshot between 4.4 and > 4.5? Frank feedback on the strong and weak areas of 4.4 as it stands now > would be appreciated. We will be bringing in much of the 4.4-RELEASE into our embedded system, which is currently running 4.3-RELEASE, plus patches. However, we will _NOT_ be bringing in the mbuf code (we are running the more advanced code, from 5.x, which amounts to a back-port of about 5 files), and we will _NOT_ be bringing in the tcptempl removal: it causes a significant performance hit. My original complaint on it was the amount of memory that it too per, not the fact that it took any... it's also convenient for about six different stack performance enhancement technologies, all of which would like around 60 bytes to do their thing; instead, we will just allocate the 60 bytes, instead, using a page-filling "chain" allocator, so not a byte is wasted. There are several other changes we will _NOT_ be bringing in, as well (I've complained about them in other forums, after doing performance testing on them, and finding them lacking). If I could kill /dev/random easily, I'd do that too; I will probably get around to it eventually, since it's "entropy harvesting" hooks significantly and negatively impact interrupt overhead, and unless you take the hit, you "run out" of random numbers when using SSL/SSH, particularly immediatley after a reboot (e.g. right when you need them to remotely administer a system). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 26 23:30: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C8337B403 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:30:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f7R6SRw19167; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:28:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@freebsd.org) To: mark@grondar.za Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4.4-RELEASE slip to 5 September 2001 In-Reply-To: <200108251122.f7PBMjc45397@grimreaper.grondar.za> References: <20010823141034Q.jkh@freebsd.org> <200108251122.f7PBMjc45397@grimreaper.grondar.za> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010826232827F.jkh@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:28:27 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 28 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, that's certainly useful information. :) - Jordan From: Mark Murray Subject: Re: 4.4-RELEASE slip to 5 September 2001 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:22:45 +0100 > Hehehehe! > > This release date is my 40th birthday! :-) > > M > > > For various reasons, I feel that we need a little more time on > > 4.4-RELEASE to make it everything we're aiming for and would therefore > > like to announce a new release date (target) of September 5th. Murray > > will be continuing to assist me throughout the release process since > > I'm a bit loaded down this month with two OS shipping efforts in > > progress, namely MacOS X 10.1 and FreeBSD 4.4. I'll sleep next month > > sometime (I hope). > > > > JFYI, > > > > - Jordan > -- > Mark Murray > Warning: this .sig is umop ap!sdn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 27 9:57:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (kawoserv.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.180.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 014AE37B409 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:57:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@big.endian.de) Received: from zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.181.28]) by kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26245; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:44:05 +0200 Received: by zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8B92E14B2B; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:44:05 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:44:05 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How is 4.4-RELEASE shaping up? Message-ID: <20010827184405.A3149@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> Mail-Followup-To: Alexander Langer , Giorgos Keramidas , Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010826110635.057b5ca0@localhost> <20010826204640.B14652@hades.hell.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010826204640.B14652@hades.hell.gr>; from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr on Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 08:46:40PM +0300 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Giorgos Keramidas (keramida@ceid.upatras.gr): > Am probably being paranoid here, but a -RELEASE is never good enough > for production machines. I would wait until a .2 release comes out, .4 > .2 Also, RELEASE *is* for production-machines, RELENG_* is not. Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 27 14:58:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-54.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E57E37B40A for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:58:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 72F0666E42; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:58:41 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Kevin Lyons Cc: issei@jp.freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ssltelnetd 0.13 Message-ID: <20010827145841.B46435@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <200108252330.SAA04436@corserv.corserv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200108252330.SAA04436@corserv.corserv.com>; from klyons@corserv.corserv.com on Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 06:30:15PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 06:30:15PM -0500, Kevin Lyons wrote: > I am looking for a replacement telnetd and saw ssltelnetd in the ports > collection, but also see a tag FORBIDDEN remote exploit not fixed. >=20 > Please advise if this package/port has had the exploit fixed. If not > do you know of any other telnet daemon that I can run. I don't > want to upgrade my whole release just to fix telnetd and the patches > for the exploit don't build on my 2.x.x fbsd release. That's correct. The telnetd in the kerberos ports is fixed, but it installs a lot of other baggage along with it. Kris --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7isKRWry0BWjoQKURAkFKAKDJaaKrA1J47QZlcFO/KoBsJWv5SwCg63Ok JNVU4yR4XT6D+CBC6B67ezI= =Ug/O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 2: 4: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from arb.arb.za.net (www.tarmactroopers.co.za [196.7.148.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C1C37B409 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 02:04:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by arb.arb.za.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with UUCP id f7S93lO67114; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:03:47 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grimreaper.grondar.za (8.11.6/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7RIxRv96392; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:59:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <200108271859.f7RIxRv96392@grimreaper.grondar.za> To: Chris Fuhrman Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 4.4-RELEASE slip to 5 September 2001 References: In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Fuhrman "Mon, 27 Aug 2001 06:57:02 EDT." Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:59:23 +0100 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Maybe you should nickname the release "Over-the-Hill"... Har har. What's your ICBM address? ;-) M -- Mark Murray Warning: this .sig is umop ap!sdn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 5:22:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venice.iwaynet.net (venice.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4E637B405 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 05:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cfuhrman@iwaynet.net) Received: from localhost (IDENT:nobody@venice.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.17]) by venice.iwaynet.net (8.12.0.Beta19/8.12.0.Beta19) with ESMTP id f7SCOq4m008313 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:24:52 -0400 Received: from 204.210.226.249 ( [204.210.226.249]) as user cfuhrman@pop.iwaynet.net by webmail.iwaynet.net with HTTP; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:24:52 -0400 Message-ID: <999001492.3b8b8d94b71c3@webmail.iwaynet.net> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:24:52 -0400 From: cfuhrman@iwaynet.net To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Switching from LGPL to ??? License MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 2.3.7-cvs X-Originating-IP: 204.210.226.249 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Howdy, Can't really think of a better forum to ask this so I thought I'd give this one a shot. I'm the author of a perl module used for printing to remote printers. Within the next month or so, I'm planning on giving it a fairly complete overhaul to make it easier to maintain. Another major change that I'm planning on undertaking is to release it under a different license. Right now, the latest version has been released under the LGPL. Due to philosophical/political issues I have with the GPL/LGPL I have decided it would be best change the license the perl module is distributed under. Interested parties as to why I decided to do this can reference the recent fiasco w/ glibc: http://news.linuxprogramming.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-08-16-002-06-LT Giving credit where credit is due, a number of arguments made by Brett Glass have also influenced me in the past few months. So, this brings me to two questions: 1) Which license to distributed the module under: the Perl Artistic License or the BSD one. 2) What is the best means of changing the license? Basically strip out the LGPL and replace it? I appreciate any input into this. Cheers! - Chris Fuhrman cfuhrman@iwaynet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 6:57:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [63.145.197.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7305137B405 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:57:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15bjMw-0005eb-00; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:57:30 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:57:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: cfuhrman@iwaynet.net Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Switching from LGPL to ??? License In-Reply-To: <999001492.3b8b8d94b71c3@webmail.iwaynet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 cfuhrman@iwaynet.net wrote: > I'm the author of a perl module used for printing to remote printers. Within Are you the only author? > 1) Which license to distributed the module under: the Perl Artistic > License or the BSD one. What are your goals? (I personally like the simplicity of the BSD license.) > 2) What is the best means of changing the license? Basically strip out the LGPL > and replace it? If others have contributed LGPL code to you that is integrated in your project, then you may need to ask them for permission. (Because they were contributing code thinking that it was for a LGPL'd project.) Jeremy C. Reed http://www.reedmedia.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 7:11:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venice.iwaynet.net (venice.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B4E37B408 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:11:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cfuhrman@iwaynet.net) Received: from localhost (IDENT:nobody@venice.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.17]) by venice.iwaynet.net (8.12.0.Beta19/8.12.0.Beta19) with ESMTP id f7SEDG4m019386; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:13:16 -0400 Received: from 204.210.226.249 ( [204.210.226.249]) as user cfuhrman@pop.iwaynet.net by webmail.iwaynet.net with HTTP; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:13:16 -0400 Message-ID: <999007996.3b8ba6fc0c364@webmail.iwaynet.net> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:13:16 -0400 From: cfuhrman@iwaynet.net To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Switching from LGPL to ??? License References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 2.3.7-cvs X-Originating-IP: 204.210.226.249 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Howdy, Quoting "Jeremy C. Reed" : > Are you the only author? Yes. > What are your goals? (I personally like the simplicity of the BSD > license.) Anyone is free to take the code and do with it what they please provided they maintain the copyright notice. I google'd for both the BSD and PAL, read through them, and am now leaning toward the BSD license. > If others have contributed LGPL code to you that is integrated in your > project, then you may need to ask them for permission. (Because they were > contributing code thinking that it was for a LGPL'd project.) There are some contributed patches submitted by others. I've kept the list of people who have submitted patches so I can contact them for permission. Thanks for bringing that one up, I hadn't thought of that. I believe I'm also going to have to discuss this with "upstairs" since the name of my company is also in the documentation. Cheers! - Chris Fuhrman cfuhrman@iwaynet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 7:33:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D894A37B406 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:33:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b041.otenet.gr [195.167.121.169]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id f7SEXjw23276; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:33:45 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.4) id f7S4O7Z06396; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:24:07 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:24:06 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Alexander Langer , Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How is 4.4-RELEASE shaping up? Message-ID: <20010828072405.A6375@hades.hell.gr> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010826110635.057b5ca0@localhost> <20010826204640.B14652@hades.hell.gr> <20010827184405.A3149@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010827184405.A3149@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d>; from alex@big.endian.de on Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 06:44:05PM +0200 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Alexander Langer Subject: Re: How is 4.4-RELEASE shaping up? Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 06:44:05PM +0200 > Thus spake Giorgos Keramidas (keramida@ceid.upatras.gr): > > > Am probably being paranoid here, but a -RELEASE is never good enough > > for production machines. I would wait until a .2 release comes out, > > .4 > .2 > > Also, RELEASE *is* for production-machines, RELENG_* is not. I knew I had to stop smokin' things and reply at the same time :( My apologies for what confusion I might have caused. -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 11:49:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C62B337B401 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:49:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.129.165.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.129.165]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12071; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B8BE7D5.B9A0B3A5@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:49:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cfuhrman@iwaynet.net Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Switching from LGPL to ??? License References: <999001492.3b8b8d94b71c3@webmail.iwaynet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org cfuhrman@iwaynet.net wrote: > I'm the author of a perl module used for printing to remote printers. Within > the next month or so, I'm planning on giving it a fairly complete overhaul to > make it easier to maintain. Another major change that I'm planning on > undertaking is to release it under a different license. Be careful. If you have accepted any contributions to the code, you will either need to back them out, get the authors to assign rights to the changes to you, or get the authors to agree with your change in license, before you can do this. This is because the combined work is derived from LGPL'ed code from those contributors, since their code is a derived work from the original LGPL'ed work. > So, this brings me to two questions: > > 1) Which license to distributed the module under: the Perl > Artistic License or the BSD one. This depends on the level of control you want to maintain over the code: o If you liked the goals of the LGPL,you might even want to consider the eCOS license, etc.; there are much better instrumentalities of the GNU manifesto than the LGPL/GPL. o If you would do public domain, but want to have a hold harmless, you would probably be best served by a BSD two clause license. o If you want to have a hold harmless, and not have someone else claim credit for your ideas, the four clause Berkely license is the same as the two clause, but includes the "claim credit clause". This is sometimes incorrectly called "the advertising clause", but since it only kicks in when the mention _fetaures_ or _use_ of your software, it doesn't affect the advertising unless the user intentionally claims your features as theirs. o The CMU License is similar to the BSD three clause license: it has the restriction that you can't use the author's name without permission, and it has the same effect as the two clause "hold harmless"; it also _requests_ that changes be sent back to the authors, but doesn't require it. o The Artistic License permits you editorial control over future versions of the code. It is rather more restrictive with what can be done with the code, if you are not involved. If you think you might get hit by a bus, and want your code to survive you, you probably don't want the Sun Community Source License, the IBM Open Source License, or the Artistic License, since there will no longer be a seat of editorial control if you are no longer around, which would send the code into "limbo". > 2) What is the best means of changing the license? Basically > strip out the LGPL and replace it? You must obtain the consent of all authors, or remove their contributions, if they refuse consent. See above. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 12:54:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venice.iwaynet.net (venice.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FD3837B401 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:53:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cfuhrman@iwaynet.net) Received: from localhost (IDENT:nobody@venice.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.17]) by venice.iwaynet.net (8.12.0.Beta19/8.12.0.Beta19) with ESMTP id f7SJts4m022251; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:55:54 -0400 Received: from 204.210.226.249 ( [204.210.226.249]) as user cfuhrman@pop.iwaynet.net by webmail.iwaynet.net with HTTP; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:55:54 -0400 Message-ID: <999028554.3b8bf74a8b2fd@webmail.iwaynet.net> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:55:54 -0400 From: cfuhrman@iwaynet.net To: tlambert2@mindspring.com, Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Switching from LGPL to ??? License References: <999001492.3b8b8d94b71c3@webmail.iwaynet.net> <3B8BE7D5.B9A0B3A5@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <3B8BE7D5.B9A0B3A5@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 2.3.7-cvs X-Originating-IP: 204.210.226.249 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Howdy, Quoting Terry Lambert : > Be careful. > > If you have accepted any contributions to the code, you will > either need to back them out, get the authors to assign rights > to the changes to you, or get the authors to agree with your > change in license, before you can do this. I will be contacting the contributors before releasing any new version under a new license. I believe there's only two or three people that I have to contact. > This depends on the level of control you want to maintain > over the code: > > o If you liked the goals of the LGPL,you might even > want to consider the eCOS license, etc.; there are > much better instrumentalities of the GNU manifesto > than the LGPL/GPL. I really don't mind if people use my code for their own profit but would like credit where credit is used. > > o If you would do public domain, but want to have a > hold harmless, you would probably be best served by > a BSD two clause license. The version of the BSD license I found that appears "current" is listed at this address: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.html The above version is the "three-clause" license *without* the claim-credit clause. Tenatively, it appears the "three-clause" license would meet my needs. Out of curiousity, which two clauses are in the BSD "two-clause" license? > > o The CMU License is similar to the BSD three clause > license: it has the restriction that you can't use > the author's name without permission, and it has the > same effect as the two clause "hold harmless"; it also > _requests_ that changes be sent back to the authors, > but doesn't require it. Could you provide a link to the CMU license? I google'd for it and came across the following link: http://asg2.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/imapd/license.html The above license does not appear to include the "request" clause. > > o The Artistic License permits you editorial control > over future versions of the code. It is rather more > restrictive with what can be done with the code, if > you are not involved. Okay, that rules out the Artistic License. I'm being pretty liberal here and would like to have a fair balance between my own and other people's "flerbage" (yes, I'm using ESR's coined word *g*) I appreciate your help :) > -- Terry > > - Chris Fuhrman cfuhrman@iwaynet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 13:39:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14BB437B408 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.xtalwind.net [127.0.0.1]) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.11.6/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7SKdfT35840 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:39:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:39:41 -0400 (EDT) From: jack To: Subject: Re: 4.4-RELEASE slip to 5 September 2001 In-Reply-To: <20010826232827F.jkh@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <20010828163637.B35067-100000@germanium.xtalwind.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > I'm a bit loaded down this month with two OS shipping efforts in > > > progress, namely MacOS X 10.1 and FreeBSD 4.4. Has anyone filed a PR yet on the jordan.pl threading problem? Seems like it should just be able to spawn another instance of itself to cover this. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc. Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null -------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer is to computing what a McDonalds Certified Food Specialist is to fine cuisine. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 14:52:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C2137B405 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@earth.upton.net) Received: from there ([24.150.36.162]) by femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010828215239.GVOK3082.femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:52:39 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Paul Murphy To: tlambert2@mindspring.com, cfuhrman@iwaynet.net Subject: Re: Switching from LGPL to ??? License Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:52:38 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3] Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <999001492.3b8b8d94b71c3@webmail.iwaynet.net> <3B8BE7D5.B9A0B3A5@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <3B8BE7D5.B9A0B3A5@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010828215239.GVOK3082.femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On August 28, 2001 02:49 pm, Terry Lambert wrote: > > If you think you might get hit by a bus, and want your code to > survive you, you probably don't want the Sun Community Source > License, the IBM Open Source License, or the Artistic License, > since there will no longer be a seat of editorial control if > you are no longer around, which would send the code into "limbo". > Could you not assign these rights to someone in a Will? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 15:51:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 409DB37B407 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00810; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:50:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:50:50 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: jack Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 4.4-RELEASE slip to 5 September 2001 Message-ID: <20010828185050.A795@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20010826232827F.jkh@freebsd.org> <20010828163637.B35067-100000@germanium.xtalwind.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20010828163637.B35067-100000@germanium.xtalwind.net>; from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net on Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 04:39:41PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I doubt that his parents are willing to release the source code. On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 04:39:41PM -0400, jack wrote: > Has anyone filed a PR yet on the jordan.pl threading problem? > Seems like it should just be able to spawn another instance of > itself to cover this. -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 16: 4:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from riker.skynet.be (riker.skynet.be [195.238.3.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7438537B407 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:04:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by riker.skynet.be (8.11.6/8.11.6/Skynet-OUT-2.12) with ESMTP id f7SN3pV25272; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:03:51 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010828163637.B35067-100000@germanium.xtalwind.net> References: <20010828163637.B35067-100000@germanium.xtalwind.net> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2040 06:05:37 +0100 To: jack , From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: 4.4-RELEASE slip to 5 September 2001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 4:39 PM -0400 8/28/01, jack wrote: > Has anyone filed a PR yet on the jordan.pl threading problem? > Seems like it should just be able to spawn another instance of > itself to cover this. Yeah, but with a startup latency of something on the order of fifteen to twenty years, it seems like it would take a while for the bottleneck to be cleared. ;-) -- Brad Knowles, H4sICIFgXzsCA2RtYS1zaWcAPVHLbsMwDDvXX0H0kkvbfxiwVw8FCmzAzqqj1F4dy7CdBfn7 Kc6wmyGRFEnvvxiWQoCvqI7RSWTcfGXQNqCUAnfIU+AT8OZ/GCNjRVlH0bKpguJkxiITZqes MxwpSucyDJzXxQEUe/ihgXqJXUXwD9ajB6NHonLmNrUSK9nacHQnH097szO74xFXqtlbT3il wMsBz5cnfCR5cEmci0Rj9u/jqBbPeES1I4PeFBXPUIT1XDSOuutFXylzrQvGyboWstCoQZyP dxX4dLx0eauFe1x9puhoi0Ao1omEJo+BZ6XLVNaVpWiKekxN0VK2VMpmAy+Bk7ZV4SO+p1L/ uErNRS/qH2iFU+iNOtbcmVt9N16lfF7tLv9FXNj8AiyNcOi1AQAA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 23:21:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1461E37B406 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:21:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25261; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010829002000.050e4ba0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:20:29 -0600 To: jack , From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: 4.4-RELEASE slip to 5 September 2001 In-Reply-To: <20010828163637.B35067-100000@germanium.xtalwind.net> References: <20010826232827F.jkh@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:39 PM 8/28/2001, jack wrote: >Has anyone filed a PR yet on the jordan.pl threading problem? >Seems like it should just be able to spawn another instance of >itself to cover this. Didn't George W. Bush just say he wanted to make that illegal? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 23:56:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE59D37B418 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:56:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25488; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:56:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010829005302.0500e730@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:56:24 -0600 To: cfuhrman@iwaynet.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Switching from LGPL to ??? License In-Reply-To: <999001492.3b8b8d94b71c3@webmail.iwaynet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:24 AM 8/28/2001, cfuhrman@iwaynet.net wrote: >So, this brings me to two questions: > >1) Which license to distributed the module under: the Perl Artistic License or >the BSD one. Actually, the MIT X license is even simpler than the BSD license. It might be the best if your goal is to allow people to do anything with the code except sue you for bugs. The Artistic License gives you a bit more control (especially over the name of the product) but also has some vague and probably unenforceable provisions. The advantage of it would be that the module would be licensed in the same way as Perl (a popular thing to do in the Perl community). >2) What is the best means of changing the license? Basically strip out the LGPL >and replace it? If the code is all yours, yes. Otherwise, get permission from all authors first to avoid legal problems.... --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 28 23:56:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA06237B401 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:56:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.113.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.113]) by robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f7T6uZb14685; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B8C924A.3D29A4AE@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:57:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cfuhrman@iwaynet.net Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Switching from LGPL to ??? License References: <999001492.3b8b8d94b71c3@webmail.iwaynet.net> <3B8BE7D5.B9A0B3A5@mindspring.com> <999028554.3b8bf74a8b2fd@webmail.iwaynet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org cfuhrman@iwaynet.net wrote: > Out of curiousity, which two clauses are in the BSD "two-clause" license? The middle clause; see the FreeBSD aggregate license. > Could you provide a link to the CMU license? I google'd for it > and came across the following link: > > http://asg2.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/imapd/license.html > > The above license does not appear to include the "request" clause. This is closer to a BSD license. What you want to look at is the CMU license on some of the FreeBSD VM code, and the MIT X license for XFree86. THey are effectively this license, with an additional request for contributions (but not a requirement). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 29 0: 7:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE0337B406 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:07:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.113.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.113]) by robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f7T77Zb22062; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B8C94DE.EF72ACB3@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:08:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Murphy Cc: cfuhrman@iwaynet.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Switching from LGPL to ??? License References: <999001492.3b8b8d94b71c3@webmail.iwaynet.net> <3B8BE7D5.B9A0B3A5@mindspring.com> <20010828215239.GVOK3082.femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Paul Murphy wrote: > On August 28, 2001 02:49 pm, Terry Lambert wrote: > > If you think you might get hit by a bus, and want your code to > > survive you, you probably don't want the Sun Community Source > > License, the IBM Open Source License, or the Artistic License, > > since there will no longer be a seat of editorial control if > > you are no longer around, which would send the code into "limbo". > > > > Could you not assign these rights to someone in a Will? Potentially. This would limit the term of the license to 50 years following your death, which is the term of the copyright; ownership would devolve to your estate , without a will. Without creating _some_ instrument that will survive you, though, your code will not necessarily continue to be legally usable immediately following your death. As a historical precedent (though not involving death), the UCSD P-code system was licensed much as the Net/2 code was licensed by UC Berkeley. Then UCSD thought they might be able to make money off it, so they revoked their licenses, and started charging (everyone went to using other code, so their idea sucked). But they could not revoke Apple's license to the code (Apple used the UCSD P-code system in the Mac Toolbox code in the Macintosh ROM and Finder: that's where "handles" came from), since Apple had requested the license be granted in perpetuity. Similarly, UCB attempted to revoke the distribution of some of the Net/* releases of BSD code, since they claimed the BSD license was not non-revokable, and AT&T was legally forcing them to do the deed. This was ignored, after MIT offered to bankroll the legal fight, and DEC refused to take the code down off of Gatekeeper (admitting that the license was really revokable would have damaged their business, which used code derived from the Net/2 and other BSD code). I'm always tempted to have a lawyer draft a new version of the UCB license which grants rights in perpetuity, subject only to reciprical protection from legal claims, when this subject comes up. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 29 1:31:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from moon.drustvo-dns.si (mail.drustvo-dns.si [193.77.201.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2493037B401 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:31:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin.zibert@drustvo-dns.si) Received: from cois.drustvo-dns.si ([194.249.8.146]) by moon.drustvo-dns.si (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GITLL300.H8G for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:15:04 +0200 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.0.20010829102735.00a84820@mail.drustvo-dns.si> X-Sender: mzibert@mail.drustvo-dns.si X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:27:56 +0200 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: "Martin Zibert" Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org unsubscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 31 17: 4: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web11508.mail.yahoo.com (web11508.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A360337B403 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010901000358.45923.qmail@web11508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.68.134.71] by web11508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:03:58 PDT Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:03:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Fabio Miranda Subject: offtopic To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, I'm curious is freebsd is doing something special for its 4.4 release, like BSD4.4 software, i mean, maybe there is a conmemoration or something like that. let's do a conmemoration in which users talk about theirs experience with freebsd. we are a free comunity... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 31 18: 5:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from aragorn.neomedia.it (aragorn.neomedia.it [195.103.207.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF4E037B405; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from httpd@localhost) by aragorn.neomedia.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f8115AR27066; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 03:05:10 +0200 (CEST) To: "Bruce A. Mah" Subject: Re: docs/30203: description of security profiles in FAQ is just plain wrong Message-ID: <999306309.3b903445f411a@webmail.neomedia.it> Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 03:05:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Salvo Bartolotta Cc: Dima Dorfman , Rahul Siddharthan , mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.4-cvs X-WebMail-Company: Neomedia s.a.s. X-Originating-IP: 62.98.237.172 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ redirected to -chat; PR is closed ] >> > - is enabled or disabled. >> > + The following table describes what each of the >> > + security profiles does. The columns are the choices you >> >> "...what each of the security profiles does". The verb (does) doesn't >> agree in number with the subject (profiles). Or something like >> that--you get the idea. I'm not an English teacher, so I probably got >> the terms all wrong. I changed 'does' to 'do'. >Actually, the subject is "each", which is singular. I'm pretty sure >Michael is right on this one. As others have pointed out, this is essentially correct. More precisely, "each of" is used before a pronoun or determiner (the, my, those...); the pronoun or noun is plural. As subject, "each of + plural expression" is *usually* followed by a singular verb; however, the verb can be plural in an informal style. The use of "each" makes us think of things/people "separately". This explains why "nearly every + countable noun" is preferred to "nearly each + (countable noun)"; it also explains the (normal) singular verb in the foregoing. > The prepositional phrase "of the security profiles" confuses things a > bit. A trick that my seventh-grade English teacher Mrs. Cantrell taught > me was to take out the prepositional phrase (which is optional in a > structural sense anyways) and see if the sentence still seems > correct...in this case, "each [...] does" vs. "each [...] do". Sorry, but Mrs Cantrell was plain wrong. :-) The reasons originate in syntax, as it were, interwoven with semantics, "a number of people are wrong" being a trivial counter-example. By the way, you may wish to browse http://www.english-usage.com/faq.html and look for "a number of" ;-) -- Salvo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 1 0:54:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from postfix2-2.free.fr (postfix2-2.free.fr [213.228.0.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C791E37B40D for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 00:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bluerondo.a.la.turk (nas-cbv-4-27-1.dial.proxad.net [213.228.27.1]) by postfix2-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 641EF5FA1B for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 09:54:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 706 invoked by uid 1001); 1 Sep 2001 07:54:17 -0000 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 09:54:17 +0200 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Salvo Bartolotta Cc: "Bruce A. Mah" , Dima Dorfman , mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/30203: description of security profiles in FAQ is just plain wrong Message-ID: <20010901095417.A618@lpt.ens.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Salvo Bartolotta , "Bruce A. Mah" , Dima Dorfman , mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <999306309.3b903445f411a@webmail.neomedia.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <999306309.3b903445f411a@webmail.neomedia.it>; from bartequi@neomedia.it on Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 03:05:09AM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.4-PRERELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Salvo Bartolotta said on Sep 1, 2001 at 03:05:09: > >> "...what each of the security profiles does". The verb (does) doesn't > >> agree in number with the subject (profiles). Or something like > > >Actually, the subject is "each", which is singular. I'm pretty sure > >Michael is right on this one. > > As others have pointed out, this is essentially correct. > > More precisely, "each of" is used before a pronoun or determiner (the, my, > those...); the pronoun or noun is plural. As subject, "each of + plural > expression" is *usually* followed by a singular verb; however, the verb can > be plural in an informal style. > > The use of "each" makes us think of things/people "separately". This explains > why "nearly every + countable noun" is preferred to "nearly each + (countable > noun)"; it also explains the (normal) singular verb in the foregoing. But it's also singular for "every" -- for instance, "nearly every sheep has four legs" where "sheep" and "has" are both singular. But it would be plural with "all". When you prefer a plural, you'd probably say "what all of the security profiles do" but in this case that's probably inappropriate. Also it leads to ambiguity: do you mean they all do it together, or any one of them does it? > > The prepositional phrase "of the security profiles" confuses things a > > bit. A trick that my seventh-grade English teacher Mrs. Cantrell taught > > me was to take out the prepositional phrase (which is optional in a > > structural sense anyways) and see if the sentence still seems > > correct...in this case, "each [...] does" vs. "each [...] do". > > Sorry, but Mrs Cantrell was plain wrong. :-) > > The reasons originate in syntax, as it were, interwoven with semantics, "a > number of people are wrong" being a trivial counter-example. It certainly *sounds* wrong but that's perhaps more to do with common usage than formal rules of syntax or semantics. That is, the word "number" could grammatically be a collective noun, but here the phrase "a number of people" is normally taken as a single, plural unit with a specific connotation (you won't replace "a" with "the" in the next sentence, for instance). This roughly agrees with what your faq says. Collective nouns aren't clear-cut too; I was having an argument with someone once about this. Do you say "the committee has met" or "the committee have met"? He said the English prefer the latter (today, at least) and the Americans prefer the former. However, the plural looks wrong to me: you would normally say "This is the committee" not "these are the committee". It's less clear-cut with "This is a number of people" versus "These are a number of people" but that's probably because this isn't a collective noun, but a common phrase which is taken to be plural by convention; replace "number" with "crowd" or "team" or "group" or anything else and the singular definitely looks better (to me, anyway). Besides, English is full of inconsistencies. For instance, grammarians will tell you to say "It is I" and not "It is me", but this is inconsistent with the usage with any other verb (try replacing "is" with "likes", "bites", etc). - Rahul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message