From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 13 10: 4: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9996D37B401 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 10:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pepcross.com (pc-80-192-15-110-az.blueyonder.co.uk [80.192.15.110]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE1743E88 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 10:04:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@pepcross.com) Received: (from steve@localhost) by pepcross.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g9DH3gW00383 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:03:42 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from steve) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:03:42 +0100 From: Stephen Roome To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: What happened to FreeBSD ?? Message-ID: <20021013180342.C185@dylan.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So far this year working with FreeBSD I've : 1) sent in a new port, ports/42234. 2) sent some bug reports to the maintainer of fetch and FTP that they bomb out on servers not supporting MDTM. 3) Asked for help with bktr 4) sent in a bug report about ports breaking (35218) A few years ago things would have happened to these, so far, well someone closed ports/35218 with just a straight it's a duplicate which is fair enough and des has said that he'll integrate the rather simple fix for MDTM support into (lib)fetch, but it's not happened yet. No one has mentioned anything about the new port and no-one has a response for help with some mods to the bktr driver. Which reminds me could someone now close gnu/29331 as this has been fixed. (I sent this one in over a year ago.) This all seems to be a bit like bin/22124. Back in 1996 I started work on some pci mods. I worked a bit with the guys doing the pci code then and I set some stuff up to have a pci device database (much as it works now) and get pciconf and bootup to be more informative about device found on the bus. The idea of a database of pci devices was at the time decided to be wrong, so later I submitted code for pciconf to just at least display the type of devices attached. But now it's the right to do it apparently and Mike Smith added stuff to current. In a message off list to me around the time he did mention that if he'd seen the code I'd done he'd probably just have committed that instead. So it took over three years for code very similar to the stuff I originally proposed to make into FreeBSD, and even then it took a bloody long route and wasted more than just my time in the process. So.. What the hell is wrong with FreeBSD, pr's don't ever seem to get looked at, or just closed with often impolite responses, and people like me, the sort of people who are FreeBSD advocates, developers and regular users, but not committers get more and more pissed off with the general attitude of adding what appears to be cruft and ignoring valid comments and code from a seasoned bunch of users. I've installed almost every FreeBSD version since 2.0.5 and use it daily but I'm starting to think that Linux might be a better bet while we have this complacency and general godhood type arrogance coming across. I'm not the only person to think this way either, most of my friends who are regular FreeBSD users are considering switching away while they are ignored and feel FreeBSD is just steadily flushing itself down the toilet. Besides, don't give me that shit about all being part-timers. Me too, and the work people like I do doesn't even get looked at because we're all too busy stabbing each other in the back and ignoring the complaints from the user base. Good luck, looks like you'll be needing it, Steve, pissed off with an increasingly crappy crufty OS. [I'm not subscribed to the list.] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 13 10:29:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779CC37B401 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 10:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [216.187.105.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBAC43E91 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 10:29:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FC723F4B for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:29:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:29:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: What happened to FreeBSD ?? Message-ID: <3DA97555.21309.345E555A@localhost> In-reply-to: <20021013180342.C185@dylan.home> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 13 Oct 2002 at 18:03, Stephen Roome wrote: > I'm not the only person to think this way either, most of my friends > who are regular FreeBSD users are considering switching away while > they are ignored and feel FreeBSD is just steadily flushing itself > down the toilet. TROLL ALERT! -- Dan Langille I'm looking for a computer job: http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 13 18:20: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA46F37B401 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CE643EB3 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:20:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E1K1Co002270 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id g9E1K1aW002269; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8477C37B401 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.slackerbsd.org (pcp02155875pcs.walngs01.pa.comcast.net [68.81.47.129]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D64743EB7 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:13:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from carl@laptop.slackerbsd.org) Received: by laptop.slackerbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E323B4281; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <20021013211135.E323B4281@laptop.slackerbsd.org> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:11:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Carl Schmidt Reply-To: Carl Schmidt To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Subject: advocacy/44029: FreeBSD works. Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Number: 44029 >Category: advocacy >Synopsis: FreeBSD works. >Confidential: no >Severity: critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-advocacy >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: sw-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sun Oct 13 18:20:01 PDT 2002 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Carl Schmidt >Release: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386 >Organization: >Environment: System: FreeBSD laptop.slackerbsd.org 5.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #0: Fri Oct 11 23:51:14 EDT 2002 root@laptop.slackerbsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/LAPTOP i386 >Description: FreeBSD works too damn well. It just sits there, working. FreeBSD makes my social life un-interesting. I have no conversational pieces because of FreeBSD. I swear it is not my lack of a life. >How-To-Repeat: Install FreeBSD. >Fix: Give me a commit bit. (I do apologize for this erroneous PR; Jesus made me do it.) >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Oct 13 18:27: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B398F37B401; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654AB43EB1; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (will@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9E1R8Co004583; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from will@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id g9E1R8xX004579; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:27:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Will Andrews Message-Id: <200210140127.g9E1R8xX004579@freefall.freebsd.org> To: carl@slackerbsd.org, will@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: advocacy/44029: FreeBSD works. Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Synopsis: FreeBSD works. State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: will State-Changed-When: Sun Oct 13 18:25:35 PDT 2002 State-Changed-Why: Not a PR. *GASP* A positive troll! Be sure to apply your talents if you want a commit bit... ;-] http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=44029 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 14 0: 9:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B237137B401 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mg.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-23.outblaze.com [202.77.181.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F1F43EAA for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:09:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from derekbarrett@graffiti.net) Received: from ws3.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-90.outblaze.com [202.77.181.90]) by mg.hk5.outblaze.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g9E799V28128 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:09:09 GMT Received: (qmail 26474 invoked by uid 1001); 14 Oct 2002 07:09:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20021014070909.26472.qmail@graffiti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [66.51.217.108] by ws3.hk5.outblaze.com with http for derekbarrett@graffiti.net; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:09:09 +0800 From: "Derek Barrett" To: "Dan Langille" , Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:09:09 +0800 Subject: Re: Books I saw today X-Originating-Ip: 66.51.217.108 X-Originating-Server: ws3.hk5.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On deck is the Embedded FreeBSD Cookbook, by Paul Cevoli, due out this month! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Langille" Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:31:42 -0400 To: GB Clark Subject: Re: Books I saw today > On 12 Oct 2002 at 18:36, GB Clark wrote: > > > On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:08:51 -0400 > > "Dan Langille" wrote: > > > > > I was browsing around the computer bookshop in Merivale Mall > > > (Ottawa) today and I spotted a copy of "FreeBSD Unleashed". This > > > being the very first time I'd seen a FreeBSD book for sale, I > > > mentioned that to the person behind the cash. > > > > > > He then pointed out the last copy of "Absolute FreeBSD".... the > > > others had already sold. > > Actually, that's "Absolute BSD". > -- > Dan Langille > I'm looking for a computer job: > http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 14 0:14:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86C937B401 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mg.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-23.outblaze.com [202.77.181.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE98C43E8A for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from derekbarrett@graffiti.net) Received: from ws3.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-90.outblaze.com [202.77.181.90]) by mg.hk5.outblaze.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g9E7EXV29685 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:14:33 GMT Received: (qmail 27293 invoked by uid 1001); 14 Oct 2002 07:14:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20021014071432.27292.qmail@graffiti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [66.51.217.108] by ws3.hk5.outblaze.com with http for derekbarrett@graffiti.net; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:14:32 +0800 From: "Derek Barrett" To: "Dan Langille" , Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:14:32 +0800 Subject: Part 2 X-Originating-Ip: 66.51.217.108 X-Originating-Server: ws3.hk5.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Oops sorry for the extra email, just wanted to add there are two more books due out soon. The Sams book is an especially famous product line. FreeBSD: The Complete Reference by Roderick W. Smith November 1, 2002 Sams Teach Yourself FreeBSD in 24 Hours by Michael Urban December 12, 2002 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Langille" Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:31:42 -0400 To: GB Clark Subject: Re: Books I saw today > On 12 Oct 2002 at 18:36, GB Clark wrote: > > > On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:08:51 -0400 > > "Dan Langille" wrote: > > > > > I was browsing around the computer bookshop in Merivale Mall > > > (Ottawa) today and I spotted a copy of "FreeBSD Unleashed". This > > > being the very first time I'd seen a FreeBSD book for sale, I > > > mentioned that to the person behind the cash. > > > > > > He then pointed out the last copy of "Absolute FreeBSD".... the > > > others had already sold. > > Actually, that's "Absolute BSD". > -- > Dan Langille > I'm looking for a computer job: > http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 14 0:28: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B4737B401 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.98.60]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D8643EAC for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:27:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdg.de) Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.12.5/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g9E7Rwce000648; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:27:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdg.de) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.12.5/8.12.4/Submit) with ESMTP id g9E7RvWF000645; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:27:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: gwdu60.gwdg.de: kheuer owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:27:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Konrad Heuer To: Stephen Roome Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What happened to FreeBSD ?? In-Reply-To: <20021013180342.C185@dylan.home> Message-ID: <20021014091841.Y544-100000@gwdu60.gwdg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Stephen Roome wrote: > I'm not the only person to think this way either, most of my friends > who are regular FreeBSD users are considering switching away while > they are ignored and feel FreeBSD is just steadily flushing itself > down the toilet. > > Besides, don't give me that shit about all being part-timers. Me too, > and the work people like I do doesn't even get looked at because we're > all too busy stabbing each other in the back and ignoring the > complaints from the user base. > > Good luck, looks like you'll be needing it, I started using FreeBSD with 2.0-RELEASE in 1995 as far as I can remember. Whenever I sent a PR (which has not been not so often) the response time has been short enough. Whenever I have had a serious problem with FreeBSD there has been someone who gave a good hint. I want to emphasize this although one should virtually not reply to mails of this kind sent by someone whose vanities seem to be unsatisfied. Stephen, feel lucky with Linux if you really like it ... Konrad Heuer Personal Bookmarks: Gesellschaft f=FCr wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH G=D6ttingen http://www.freebsd.org Am Fa=DFberg, D-37077 G=D6ttingen http://www.daemonnews.o= rg Deutschland (Germany) kheuer@gwdg.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 15 13:39:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F184037B401 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9788D43E9C for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:39:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id D942A3; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD7E49A17 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:39:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: BSD Press Release Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Didn't someone on this list say they had news wire contacts that could help get press releases out? If so, I have a press release ready to go. Chris Coleman Editor in Chief Daemon News E-Zine http://www.daemonnews.org Print Magazine http://magazine.daemonnews.org BSD Mall http://www.bsdmall.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message